Is it OK, reputation wise for us to settle new location at site "B" on my map before going to war with Persia or should we wait until then for that too?
I'd still like to see the corruption in our new city, in Republic. Assuming this is in the 30% range, then I think we should move that second city. Suggest in the next set of turns, a settler is built for that regard. We have about 17 turns to worry about this, before we lose our horses but its good to plan ahead.

So once we have that new city, with a harbour, giving us both horses and furs, then have a wack at Persia. Should be fun as they have Immortals. We should build some of UU for defence, or kicking of our GA

Who do we get horses from if we start war with persia?
We will have them from the new city built on the "horse tile". We need to rush a harbour and a library there for comms and culture.

We will have them from the new city built on the "horse tile". We need to rush a harbour and a library there for comms and culture.

Ok, let's do something for better or worse, if it works out great - great, if doesn't we will choose different strategy in next game...
I am in favor of doing this if it brings us more leaders.

OK, 24hrs and no "got it" from DH. The first skip for this reason in the history of our team. I am playing before going to work so Dman can have a go before leaving for his R&R.

Short report, had to stop playing after five turns will do the rest of them at lunchtime. We are in Republic, Delhi is raised as is Calcutta. We have Engineering and Feudalism from the GL, the 4 scientific tribes got them in "pairs". We are currently on Monotheism but at 40 turns (1 scientist) for the time being since I have every confidence the AI will have it soon and the cost is rather prohibitive (10 turns at -65 gold).

Wotan: Do we have Monarchy yet for HG? What is culture city building atm?

Also, can you list the exact dates for anarchy? We'll want to set up a sheet for culture prediction soon.

OK, here goes: first of all in reply to Tarkeel's questions. No we do not have Monarchy and Utica is currently building Sun Tzu's. Anarchy in 110AD and since I revolted right away that turns production was in Anarchy, we switched to Republic in 130AD.

First a map:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/smackster250AD.JPG
Turn log

0 – 50AD
Switch Leptis Magna to Settler.

IBT: Two Indian attacks, lost 1 HM to a Swordsman but won unscathed vs. an Archer.

1 – 70AD
Theveste builds Horseman, Numidian Mercenary started. Killed the Indian Swordsman wo losses.

2 – 90AD
Carthage builds Marketplace, Numidian Mercenary started. Leptis Magna builds Settler, starts Worker. Delhi raised.

IBT: Rome found Lutitia.

3 – 110AD
We research Republic, I go to “big picture” and F1 to revolt, 2 turns!!!! So no extra revolt necessary. I rearrange population in all cities to avoid revolts.

4 – 130AD
We are now in Republic! Major trading round to boost us into MA. Persia trades up Poly for Republic, we take all their gold too, 179 but no pt deals. Greece pays 110 gold for Poly and get Engineering. Ottomans pay 12 gold for poly and get Feudalism so that will come from the GL next turn. Germany pay 4 gold for Poly and Currency and get Engineering and we will get that too next turn. Unfortunately no Monotheism so start researching it myself but at 40 turns. Sold Poly to Babylon for 143 gold. We have only parted with Republic to Persia so still have good control over it should someone finish off Monarchy in the next few turns. Calcutta raized.

IBT: Barbarians appear SE of Viroconium so will allow them to wreck havoc among the Romans before restarting Roman war.

5 – 150AD
Leptis Magna builds Worker, then it is abandoned. Rusicade founded, Harbour started.

6 – 170AD
Theveste builds Numidian Mercenary, starts another. Dispersed a Barb.Camp. Rush a Library in Rusicade. Corruption in Sabarath is 33%.

7 – 190AD
Rusicade builds Library, Harbour started. Madras? raised. One HM promotes to Elite. Attack an Indian Archer with Elite Archer and Hanno Appears!!!! Sending him home…

IBT: Indian Archer attacks Archer and our Archer promotes to Elite.

8 – 210AD
Nothing worth mentioning

9 – 230AD
Carthage builds Colosseum, Worker started. Theveste builds Numidian Mercenary, starts another.

IBT: Horseman attacked by Indian Archer survives and is promoted to Elite.

10 – 250AD
Carthage builds Worker, Numidian Mercenary started.

After action report:
I have not moved any units on the Indo-Persian island. The alliance with Persia has but 1 turn to run so maybe we should start moving our forces south in preparation for the war on Persia. Maybe take a peace with India next turn for “all they have”, gold, workers and cities? Especially since we cannot leader farming right now. The leader is next to Utica but I would let Utica build something before we use the leader, hopefully we will be able to trade for Monarchy soon and switch to HG. That would be finished in 7 turns with the current production in Utica, about the same time we can start the war on Persia and restart leader farming.

Trading: not done any in the last turn. Babylon is willing to pay 54 gold for Feudalism, I would take it but leave the decision to the team. Deal with Persia ends in 8 turns, be prepared to attack when it expires.

MMing: Carthage is optimized for gold as it will grow next turn so shields will be no problem. Utica should have a Worker join it to grow to size12, there are two under the leader. Put a citizen on the last mined mountain and it will produce 20 spt!! Rusicade, forest will be chopped next turn, rush a harbour after that? Then build a Barracks/courthouse in either order. Sabarath is just about to finish the courthouse, Barracks next!

Two Numidians en route south, two more in production. Those 4 should be plenty to trigger a GA when we go to war on Rome. I have started the war due to the time it took to get them in position but should happen halfway into next set of turns. The fact that we still lack Monotheism and Monarchy is a concern too, GA without them will not be fun… But I have fed the AI with techs so they should help us out soon, within the next 4-5 turns hopefully so we will be able to build HG manually and then rush a GW with the leader. 4(3?) elites available for leaderfarming when we go to war on Persia.


Firaxis: 380
Culture: 1109 (30/turn)
8 elite attacks/defends : 1 leader

Good progress, shame we couldn't get Mono but its just luck, and for the Civ3 teams, they should only get one as they changed that in PTW.

I would hold off giving anymore techs out, unless its for good GPT, and I don't expect to see that until the AI are in Republic. Secondary reason for this is that when somebody does come up with Monarchy I'd like to make sure we have something to trade for it.

We'll have to start pushing the culture in our new city so that we get those furs, I assume they are not in range right?

Also start preparing for war with Persia and this one should be tough as they know where we are :) Both their spots of iron can be reached in one horse turn right now and I'd recommend getting that first.

We may be able to play this whole game beating up on India/Persia and getting leaders from there. After peace with India they will have land to grow again, only for us to reak havoc again later :)

Now I see the map I remember it a bit, and I think if we look we'll find a path east. So might be able to make some hay over there, with another well timed alliance.

smackster

Great turn Wotan and one more leader. I suggest we rush Sun Tzu at home, not that it gives us much culture, but it will break cascades for AIs and we will be able to start prebuilding something new right away.
Hopefully monarchy comes soon from somebody...
Now bad news... I am not going to be able to play today :sad: , and not until monday when i returned.
I am alone with my 3 years old until my wife comes home at 4pm and then i have 6pm plane to catch.
It will be hard to play and watch a kid at the same time, don't want to make any stupid mistakes :crazyeye: .
So Tarkeel please take over and I shall be ready next time around...
Sorry about that.

In overall i think we are doing great and leaders are coming just in time.

@Dmanakho: What a brilliant opportunity to teach your kid how to play Civ. ;)

I would wait a few turns for Monarchy it should be "just around the corner" and if we get it in time for the campaign vs. Persia we will both be in GA and have the HG and SunTzu from the leader rushing it. Keep a cool head and wait for Monarchy, switch Utica to HG and finish it manually then rush SunTsu with the leader.

@Dmanakho: What a brilliant opportunity to teach your kid how to play Civ. ;)

I would wait a few turns for Monarchy it should be "just around the corner" and if we get it in time for the campaign vs. Persia we will both be in GA and have the HG and SunTzu from the leader rushing it. Keep a cool head and wait for Monarchy, switch Utica to HG and finish it manually then rush SunTsu with the leader.

@Wotan: Guess what, he is playing Civilization already and i think pretty good for 3 year old :)
100% concur with Wotan on his plans for Utica... HG will bring us into GA, the rushing Suntzu with the path opened to Sistine (although it would be nice to inject a caphedral somewhere in and between) Good thinking Wotan!!!! :goodjob:

I got it and will start playing now then :)

Will delay GA and have it triggered by wonder instead I think.

Good luck, and may the AI be with us... Monotheism and Monarchy please, during your turns... :)

Monarchy is in. The question is.. Wipe out rome? GA not started yet, but will be triggered when HG completes in a few turns.

Monarchy is in. The question is.. Wipe out rome? GA not started yet, but will be triggered when HG completes in a few turns.
Yes!!! How many turns have you played? I believe there was about 140 shields left to finish HG when I left or roughly 7 turns. So a few turns to our GA then? 3, 4 or more? Get rid of Rome, there is a barb camp in the SE corner that generated a horde of barbs, during my turns they sacked the Roman city close to it at least once. I believe the lowered cost of research will benefit us if they are completely gone. India/Persia will give us ample opportunities to Leader farm and there are no elites near Rome anyway.

And, you know you are supposed to deliver monotheism too from the AI... ;)

Have played 7 now, starting on 8. HG built, Sun Tzu rushed, Rome dead and starting on Persia next turn. No sign of Mono yet though :(

Have played 7 now, starting on 8. HG built, Sun Tzu rushed, Rome dead and starting on Persia next turn. No sign of Mono yet though :(

Looks good. Mono will be there sooner or later...
We are going after theology after mono right?
What's next?? Education->Music Theory(bach's)->Astronomy(copernicus)???
Or some other path?

(0) 250 AD
Change Utica to work Mountain instead of plains. Will add a worker to grow it to 12.
Change Theveste to work on soon to be irrigated tile.

IBT:
Indian swords attack archer and is killed

(1) 260 AD
Sabratha: Court->Temple, to get more land faster, and happines
Corruption is now 3/14 and 5/24
Cancel alliance and RoP with persia, saving us 1 gpt.
Make peace with India for 85g, 2 workers. We could have gotten their 2 cities as well, but we don't want to exterminate them (yet).
Turn lux down to 20% (Sabratha really needs some hapiness!)
Pull back forces from India to be ready to hit Persia when deals expire. Cut some roads to slow down Persia
I thought I had declared on rome, and start moving.. So will be delayed. :(

IBT
Rome kicks us out, how nice!

(2) 270 AD
Carthage: Num -> Med Inf (2 turns)
Theveste: Num -> Market
Persia has Monarchy!!! Utica has 217 shields, and producing 20, so we can afford to wait 4 turns to see if it pops without wasting shields. We can get it for Engineering though. Will keep checking, and trade it the turn we need to add gold to get it.
Declare on Rome:
Horseman razed Viroconium, which is undefended.

IBT
I forgot to check Sabratha after declaring, and it riots since it's 50% roman...

(3) 280 AD
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 spear -> 1/4 horse and 2 slaves
4/4 Sword vs 3/3 Spear -> 4/4 Sword
4/4 Sword vs 3/3 spear -> 3/4 sword, razing Lutetia
We have a barbcamp in the south.
Persia no longer will give a straight trade, so we buy Monarchy for Feudalism+61g.
Utica switched to HG, due in 4.

IBT
India and Persia sign peace

(4) 290 AD
Carthage: MDI->MDI

IBT
Babylon demands republic. We refuse, and he declares war.
Persia start HG

(5) 300 AD
Civs are willing to pay GPT, so sell Monarchy around:
Germany: 118+5pt
Greece: 62+5pt
I decide to give Rome the boot:
4/4 horse vs 3/3 spear -> 3/4 horse
4/4 Sword vs 3/3 spear -> 2/4 spear
4/4 archer vs 2/4 spear -> 2/4 archer
4/4 archer vs 3/3 archer -> 4/5 archer, razing Neapolis
Lux down to 10%

(6) 310 AD
Carthage: MDI->MDI
Kill barbcamp.

(7) 320 AD
Golden Age triggered
Utica: HG->SUn Tzu. We have 30 spt. Maximize for commerce this turn though, and rush Sun Tzu
Carthage has 33spt, and will pump horses and mercs. Change to temple first
Rush harbor in Rusicade, so we will have horses after declaring next turn.

(8) 330 AD
Utica: SunTzu->Palace. We have 10 turns worth of prebuild (300 shields)
Sabratha: Temple->Market
Rusicade: Harbor->Barracks
Join 2 workers to Theveste (1 native, 1 roman), shaving 1 turn of market
Dial up Xerxes, and tell him his rugs stink.
Land 2 MDIs on Pasargadae
5/5 Archer vs 2/3 MDI -> 4/5 Archer
4/4 horse vs 3/3 pike -> 1/3 Pike
5/5 horse vs 3/3 spear -> 4/5 horse
5/5 horse vs 1/3 pike -> 4/5 horse, burning Sidon (2g, 1slave)
5/5 horse vs 3/3 spear -> 1/5 horse, burning Arbela (2g, 2 slaves)
4/4 horse vs 4/4 MDI -> 1/4 MDI
4/4 horse vs 3/3 MDI -> 1/4 horse
4/4 horse vs 1/4 MDI -> 2/5 MDI

IBT:
Lose an archer and horse on counter

(9) 340 AD
Carthage: Temple->Merc
Theveste: Market->MDI
Join another worker to theveste. It should grow naturally in 4 turns.
4/4 Horse vs 4/4 MDI -> 5/5 MDI
4/5 Archer vs 2/5 MDI -> 1/5 MDI (that's the 4th unit he kills)
4/5 Horse vs 1/5 MDI -> 4/5 Horse and leader!
4/4 MDI vs 3/3 spear -> 3/4 spear
4/4 MDI vs 3/4 spear -> 1/4 spear
What a sucky RNG :(

(10) 350 AD
Carthage: Merc->Merc
4/4 Archer vs 2/3 MDI -> 1/4 Archer

Notes:
Babylon is obviously not scientific. Not sure what they are instead
I've left 2 boats, one with leader on, the other should go explore north of India or south of Persia
We should turn on research soon, or our prebuild runs out.
Edu (Uni, cash rushed), MT, Astronomy sounds good.

Firaxis: 408
Jason: 540
Culture: 1431 / 36 pt

Great!!! One more leader...
Two way to use it:
1. build an army and then build Heroic Epic in Utica....
Do we want to risk a leader building an army??? We may or may not get another leader soon...

2. Once monotheism is researched we can cash rush caphedral and since we have a leader we should have time to build marketplace in Utica to get us some much needed gold... then use leader on Sistine upon researching theology... In this case we should keep our warfare at low level, since it won't bring us any more new leaders.

This is my last comment until Monday!!! I hope to come back and find out that we managed to build every single MA wonders :mischief:

Hooters alert: Just loaded a save - Greece will give us 20GPT for republic and India will give us furs for currency...
I think both are very good deal....

We can research monotheism in just 4 turns with -59GPT (-39 if we make a trade with Greece). I would go for it instead relying on AIs to research.

We can get it for Engineering though. Will keep checking, and trade it the turn we need to add gold to get it.
This is probably logic in a higher level than I can grasp but why wait until we have to pay gold for it????

Babylon is obviously not scientific. Not sure what they are instead
Don't you have CivAssist/CrpMapStat running in the background? CivAssist has all traits in it and Babylon is not a scientific tribe in this game
We should turn on research soon, or our prebuild runs out.

As Dman said in his reply, start researching again, we have too short a time to use the GA to waste it. We need to have GWs built during this period.

And, good turns Tarkeel!!! Another leader!!!

Yeah, research monotheism. I should have started it, but I keep confusing it with Theology (Sistine). We will waste 2 turns of production (I think) if we max research it now.

ANother alert, I left some workers in our frontline city, they can go out and mine that hill with the others.

I only use MapStat, not assist thingie.

The logic in waiting till we have to pay gold is: They would offer a fair trade in the start. If they on the next turn wouldn't, it means they have started researching that tech, and it will drop more and more in value for each turn. If it hadn't dropped, then it would mean they researched mono, and we could keep waiting for it to pop grom GL.

So lets do it -> expedite mono research in 4 turns, then theology at full speed. cash rush caphedral in utica then marketplace (cash rush it one turn before theology is ready to avoid wasting shields/turns), rush sistine with leader upon Theology research.
Build Markets in all cities while we are in Ga, try to get to Education while we are still in GA and build as many Golden Age universities as we can (in utuca for sure).

And yes, this is my last post for today for sure :)

Wow, this team is on fire, leader fire, wonder fire, basically :devil2:

Don't kill Roo......mme too late. Not its ok, I would have kept them around, however annoying they were but no problem.

Will have to take time to look to comment further, I got it, but wont play until tomorrow.

DH probably hasn't worked out he's been skipped yet, and he'll be back up before he know that.

smackster

The logic in waiting till we have to pay gold is: They would offer a fair trade in the start. If they on the next turn wouldn't, it means they have started researching that tech, and it will drop more and more in value for each turn. If it hadn't dropped, then it would mean they researched mono, and we could keep waiting for it to pop grom GL.
As I guessed, smarter than I am... Didn't think of that... :blush:

And I guess we need to research Monotheism/Theology on our own now, can it be done in time for the Palace prebuild? Hopefully we will be able to trade for Invention with either of them. Probably build Sistine and rush Leos if possible? Or an army now for Epic??? Smackster, you have the ball, how will you play it?

And finally: Just opened the save, the situation vs. Persia looks like we are in dire straits, we need peace ASAP or reinforcements. Taking their Eastern most city would be great since it would give us furs.

BTW, on my way to bed now, early morning tomorrow. We are dragging a friend away for his stagnight at 7 am and it will be a 24 hrs affair so do not expect any reasonable comments from me (as if they have ever been that) until monday at the earliest... ;) will check in when I am back on sunday, but...

EDIT: Utica is 8 turns from finishing a Palace. We can have Monotheism in 4 turns but to have Theology in 4 turns is quite a different story. CivAssist puts it at 1066 beakers = 267 beakers per turn if done in 4. We have 244 now plus a few when setting the science worker in Sabarath on a tile but we are probably 20 beakers short per turn. So, we probably need another 5 for Theology and that means slowing Utica down just to make it not finish in 8 turns, ultimately Smackster can find a solution that will have it at 299 shields after 8 turns and then use "the big picture" to switch it to Sistine on the 9th turn. It will still be 9 - 10 turns from completing Sistine (600 shields, right) but we will have ample time to get Bachs/Leos with the leader if we manually finish Sistine.

We pruned most of Persia in the first turn, but RNG hated me on the next... Reinforcements are coming, and soon we will have 3 units arriving every 2 turns.. So just hold ground till then (should be possible), but make peace if it gets dire.

I've got it! How to research both Mono and Theology in 8 turns. Start by rushing a courthouse in Rusicade and join plenty of Indian workers to it (a whole pile of them in Rusicade) to bring it to at least 10 in size. that should put the beakers past 267 per turn... And bring down the corruption in Rusicade to the same level as in Sabarath so the rushed courthouse should pay for it self in no time...
:) :) :)

I just had to find a way around that before going to sleep.

Good plan, assume that I still need to big picture it in

Also possible to lose 1 production in Utica to delay it 1 turn...

I'll certainly try to time it together

I see no reason to wipe out Rome at this time. At worst, they will be a buffer state so we won't have to worry about dealing with AI settler pairs tramping around.

Too late I think they are gone.

DH you may be up Sunday BTW.

smackster

A final thought:Maybe switch to build Cathedral when Monotheism comes in 4 turns via "the big picture", Utica is now on 60 shields, 4 turns at 25 shields each equals 160 shields (move a citizen from mountain to sea to add food to Utica). Then build the marketplace in 4 turns at 25 shields per turn. When Theology kicks in rush Sistines. That will give us the most culture in the shortest time. If we are to manually finish Sistine that will be another 9 to 10 turns before we rush another GW with the leader and start collecting culture from the Sistine. At the minimum 100 culture less than going with the cathedral-marketplace-Sistine plan. It still require the courthouse rush in Rusicade to have Theology in 8 turns from now.

And they will both "double" a lot sooner, Cathedral in 1390 and the Sistine in 1430 so it is probably the best solution.

Using your latest plan, I'm half way through have the Cathedral and working on Marketplace, nothing exiting to report. Wont be able to finish until tonight.

I'm back! Just checking in and it has been a low intensity 24 hrs... Just one question why are we down as playing PtW1.21f not PTW 1.27f? Is anyone using an older upgrade??? Will it harm the game if that is the case?

1.21 vs 1.27 are only AI changes IIRC, and the saves are compatible both ways.

1.21 vs 1.27 are only AI changes IIRC, and the saves are compatible both ways.
Any reason why you would not go from 1.21 to 1.27?

So who is playing 1.21?

edit: No chance to finish last night, but will be able to start again about 4pm EST

smackster

T0 350AD
Wow the war situation does look tough near Persia, not sure where the reinforcements were coming from so I start to find what I can.
Agree with Wotan's idea, Cathedral, Market, Rush Sistine. Join workers to Rusicade and I'm suprised at the production that it gets.

I was thinking about getting aliances against Babylon, but in a way I don't want to weaken the AI too much. We may soon find it hard to research quick enough so actually want them to keep researching.

Greece give us 25GPT + 50 for Republic, that is good enough for me.

Get furs for Poly off India

IBT
A persian elite mercenary jumps on their roaded iron and kills our elite horse, no retreat, I turn battle graphics back on.

T1 360AD

Rush barracks at Rusicade

T2 370AD

Rush a MI at Rusicade, pushing more troops from the continent over there. Now building temple want to increase the culture expansion

T3 380AD

Mono in 2 with +9 GPT
2 Immortals approach but both are dispatched without loss
With a Numedian now on Rusicase, we move it forward to cut the mountain road they keep approaching from
Also build a fortress on our hill, had all these workes, nothing better to do with them

IBT

Persian MI attacks our NM but we survive, 1/4.
3 more Persian MI approach, two on the mountain, one in the open.

T4 390AD

Mono comes in we switch Utica to Cathedral and build that this turn too.

Dispatch one of the MI with our own MI who gets an elite upgrade 1/5, protect him with NM.

We can get Theology in 4 at -46GPT.

Nobody has any money for Mono, would like to see at least 20GPT for that. But we do get 4 GPT + 20 for Monarchy from Ottomans. Sell Monarchy to Scandinavia for 25 Gold.
From India 1 GPT + 18

IBT
Now 6 Persian MI come at us, our NM, and elite MI die.

T5 400AD
We have enough to hold them off, but nothing more right now, still rushing more troops.
Day 2 start again, rush a courthouse in Rusicade. We don' t need furs for some times again as we are trading for it. Gives us time to get it from Persia, I was thinking about getting it through culture, but that might not even work.

IBT
4 Persian MI's wander to the east, no idea where they are going.
One comes off the mountain to the forest

T6 410AD
Catapult hurts Persian regular MI, but first an elite archer, then an elite horse fail to hurt it further and die

IBT
Persia ask for peace, no way so they move 5 MI and 1 archer next to Rusicade

T7 420AD
In Rusicade we now have 2 horse, 3 MI, 1 archer, and 2 or 3 NM, with another archer that can get there. Decide to attack them first. Both horses die but we kill 3 MI with our MI and damage the other two, Move the NM to Rusicade for help

Sabratha expands, putting the wool within our culture
WW hits with Persia, although does not require that we move the slider, so we don't care for now.

IBT
Persian MI run away, another couple appear in the distance

T8 430AD
Theology comes in, we build our Marketplace, and rush Sistines

Education in 5 at 1.8.1, Tech order, Education the Music Theory, and we need another leader now

We can get a small deal with India for a luxury, but not sure if we want to start more deals with them, or try to leader farm more.

T9 440AD
Sistines completes, and we start on a Uni pre-build, in fact I set all the other cities to Uni pre-builds as we have enough troops right now

We can get 7GPT + 18 from Greece for Mono, decide to wait as I would like at least 10GPT right now, was thinking 20 earlier. Suggest next player to take it when they see at least that.

IBT
Persia try to sneak a settler/pike by us to the north, he'll regret that

T10 450AD
Elite archer has a go at the pike, kills him and produces Hasdrubal, this one we should hold for JS Bachs

Another Persian MI on their land near Pasargadae, we attack him as we want to start making steps towards that city. Although we lose an MI, we send in another and some protection.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/450.jpg

Utica - Culture 1828, 47 per turn
Score - 440

Summary

1) Research education then Music Theory and use leader to rush JS Bachs. We will lose the GL, but getting these wonders early is more important. The AI doesn't look like researching anything soon anyway.

2) I have pre-builds in all cities for Univercity, so switch them all over once Education is in. We really that need science boost to stay near 4 turn research. However I would not rush the Uni in Utica, as there is nothing else to build until Music Theory, so save the cash

3) I thought there might be enough troops to attack Pasa, the horses can reach the hill on one turn, with the NM for protection who is already on the forest

edit: That worker is there near Pasar to tempt them out. We have a stack of workers in Rusicade

Roster

Wotan (on deck)
Dman
Tarkeel
smackter (just played)
DeceasedHorse (up)

Well played, and lovely to see Hasdrubal appear. Now we have Bach's in the bag too...
EDIT: Have had a look at the situation now, would like us to agree on what to do after Music Theory and Bach's. Best shortterm culture is Astronomy(Copernicus @4) and Navigation(Magellan's @3) Longterm goal is Shakespear @8, that would possibly be targeted during a period of peace since a leader would have to wait for quite some time for it to be researched. We could also consider a leader -> (knight)army if Chivalry becomes available through trade. We could then build Heroic Epic @4.
We should consider a period of peace to get WW down soon, maybe first leader farm for a leader for Copernicus/Navigation. Babylon also need to be in a position where they will accept peace wo any "reparations".
Primary military goal: Raise Pasargadae so furs become available through Rusicade.

Will play tommorrow

Just some thoughts about war weariness in war with Persia.

I really think it will help us to raze Pasargadae in this current war. So if that proves hard just ride out the WW until its gone. When we build JS Bach's that will help our happiness.

Then when its gone get peace, for any more cities they have (and abandon them), and then we should continue building culture in Rusicade to push the culture boundaries back. We might want to leave troops on the old ground of Pasargadae to stop them settling it again anytime soon.

@Smackster: agree with you on all suggestions!

Hey Team!! I am back and ready..
Had a quick look at the thread and you guys rock!!! :goodjob:

Loaded the save, with the fresh eye I've noticed only one thing.
Is there any specific reason Theveste is buildin colliseum???
if it's for happiness purposes only then better switch to temple and with Oracl we will have double effect plus opens a road to build caphedral. Temple will be ready there in just 2 turns.

Well, i am tired and need to get a nap, I will check later tonight and i should be able to play my next turn.

Sounds very good to me :) I'm going to be very busy this week, but I hope to be able to play when it comes round again.

Found out that I've been using 1.21 on this PC, and when I patched it won't run on conquest CD anymore. Will play around some with it, I know there is a how-to somewhere on these forums...

Hey Team!! I am back and ready..
Had a quick look at the thread and you guys rock!!! :goodjob:

Loaded the save, with the fresh eye I've noticed only one thing.
Is there any specific reason Theveste is buildin colliseum???
if it's for happiness purposes only then better switch to temple and with Oracl we will have double effect plus opens a road to build caphedral. Temple will be ready there in just 2 turns.

Well, i am tired and need to get a nap, I will check later tonight and i should be able to play my next turn.
All current builds in all cities are pre-builds for University when Education comes in, as stated in my turn log, but it is well worth pointing that out again. Happiness is nice, but science is what we really need to keep pumping. Can't rely on the AI in this game to research anything, and we only have 5 cities.

Understood, overlooked that in the thread before.
Sounds like a good idea.

I put our culture dates into AlanH's calculator, this allows you to see what effect adding other wonders will have. Looks like a finish of 1908 right now, adding say Copurnicus in 30 turns, knock about 15 turns off the end date.

Here it is attached.

Note that it wont tell me the date, but I can see it by typing in dates into the target dates section

Found out that I've been using 1.21 on this PC, and when I patched it won't run on conquest CD anymore. Will play around some with it, I know there is a how-to somewhere on these forums...
I guess you have discovered the same problem I found when patching to 1.27f. When the patch first appeared for PTW the game had different copy-protections in US and international editions. Conquests have the same copy-protect for all editions AFAIK so the problem is probably due to the patch you are using, if you have used the international try the US patch (or maybe reinstall using conquests since it shipped with PTW 1.27). I have not bothered to fix it so I have to use my old PTW disc to play the game since it will not accept Conquests disc.

Preturn: I think about moving the passage blocker (just kidding). Sell Currency to India for 29 gold and 2gpt (all they have).

Turn 1: Pull back damaged units to the north of Rusicade in order to better support the assault on Pasagrade. War Weariness hits Rusicade, forcing me to put the city on a starvation diet. I may let it riot and re-fill the food box, depending on how the level of WW fluctuates. It will take 448 gold, the majority of our treasury, to rush a Cathedral there. Push back the barbs that are starting to pop up on the southern tip of our continent/island. The best offer for Monotheism at the moment is Greece’s 5 gpt and 50 gold. No thanks.

IBT: Brennus tries to extort Monarchy, fails, and runs crying home.

Turn 2: Hasdrubal dropped off. Our forces continue to advance against Pasagrade. The attack will commence next turn. Science to 80%, Education in one turn @ -15 gpt. Hmm, Rusicade is happy again; it looks like what happened last turn was a result of a Persian galley temporarily blockading the city.

Turn 3: Education comes in, start on Music Theory @ 90%, due in four. Swap everything over to Universities. Disperse a barb encampment. Spend 320 gold rushing the University in Utica. Still no money to be had from the AI’s.

Battle for Pasgradae:
Vet horse vs. Vet Pike-Pike redlined, horse killed.
Vet horse vs. Reg pike-Pike redlined, then kills the horse.
Elite Numed vs. Vet MDI-Elite Numed killed, MDI redlined but promotes.
Elite MDI vs. Elite MDI-Persian MDI killed.
Vet Horse vs. 1/3 Pike-Horse wins and promotes
Vet Horse vs. ¼ pike, horse loses 4 straight hp and dies.
Vet Horse vs. elite pike: Does one damage and dies.
Vet Horse vs. elite pike: does no damage and dies
Vet MDI vs. Pike: Finally kill the bastard, promote to elite.

Some less-than-stellar tactics on my part. Raze Pasgradae and capture a catapult. Move a Numed to pillage the Persian horses.

Turn 4: Utica finishes a university; set it to pump out a horsemen every turn for a bit. The university increases science enough that I can go down to 80% and still get it within 3. War Weariness hits 37%, but I am able to use scroll-ahead and prevent rioting in Rusicade and Theveste. Sell spices to India for 27 gold and 2 gpt (they finally got some cash). Diplo check with Persia: They will give us 19 gpt and some small change for peace. Pull the trigger. Fire all specialists.

Turn 5: Complete a uni in Carthage, drop science another 10%.

IBT: Babylonians sign the vikings in against use. Barbs wack one of out useless workers down by Sabratha.

Turn 6: Not much.

Turn 7: GA ends. Science dropped down to 10%, Music Theory still in one.

Turn 8: Music Theory comes in, start and finish (very zen) Bachs in Utica. Start on Banking at 90% @ -43 gold. Plan is to grab banking then Astronomy while Utica is otherwise occupied with a palace pre-build. Start Bank pre-builds in three cities; Rusicade still needs a market.

IBT: Bismark tries to extort Monotheism, but backs down.

Turn 9: Finish Bach’s in Utica, reach 63 culture per turn. I am able to drop the lux tax to zero, and still complete the market in Rusicade in five turns if I run it on a food defceit.

Turn 10: Not much.

Good Good,
Since we build Bach's we need to sell Music Theory around,
When AI's have money they usually so stupid and give all the money they have even when wonder has been already built.

Ok, what has happened here while i was out??? First time i see such a low activity in the team's thread.

OK, this is my official "I've got it" but I have to think long and hard on this...

Loaded the save to check...
babylon would give us a peace plus 4GPT and 44 gold in eachange for Mono...
Not sure if it is worth doing, since nobody has monotheism and if we sell it to Babs, we better give it away for free to everybody else, otherwise Babs will sell it themselves.

how come Brennus still doesn't have republic?? Let's gift him republic right away. We need AIs money and with republic Celts have more chances to be useful...

@DH: Why did you move passage blocker galley??? :confused: You didn't suppose to move it in any circumstances. If you ask me that was a pretty bad idea as well as getting agreements with India, which we really should not have any agreements with period... India's and Persia's puprose is exclusevly for leader hunting. You probably don't like to chat as much as i do, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE follow the team thread and do your moves accordingly. We are really in a bad situation right now with this deal with Indians... It will take stupid 14 turns before we can do any leader hunt...
I really wish you participated in team discussion a little bit more than you do. :sad:

There are also workers mining tiles on our main island outside of city limits...

Well, not sure what are the best strategy right now, it will take too many turns to drop troops on other islands, not sure if it makes sence doing. Guess, we don't have anything better to do than waiting 14 turns and declaring another war and again against persians.. They are much bigger than Indians and we need to keep balances of power...
Persians also have Invention, but won't trade for Mono. Xerxes hasn't started building Leo but I bet he will start soon. We should eliminate his capital next time around.
We have bunch of workers in Rusicade lets transport them to the main island, as soon as Chivalry is invented we shall use those workers for iron resource disconnect trick to do to horses to knights upgrade... It will be much more effective for us than anything else.. Soon we will have every possible structure built in all of our cities and we can switch some of them on gold and some of them producing horsemen. It will be more beneficial than just doing straight knights or cavalry.

Here is what i think.... I don't think there is any team that managed to build every single AA wonder. But i am positive that there will be a team to build every single MA wonder and it will more than likely be a winning team. Although Leo gives only 2 cultural points we still should pursue it if we can get a spare leader (and only after all those high culture wonders). (that's why it was such a mistake to have all those deals withs India). and also guys lets keep in mind that from now until modern ages (research lab) we won't have no more regular buildings with culture, but wonders only. From now on it's a pure wonder race.

@Wotan, I am sure you won't but please don't forget to block the passage again.

And please please please, participate in the discussions that makes this game so much fun.
We need to discuss what we are going after Astronomy, I suggest we do Navigation, we should be able to get those much needed extra luxuries from tradings.
Then we really ought to think between Sheakspears and Newtons, both giving us a lot of culture... Also, Copernicus and Newtons in Utica will provide us with a nice boost of science.

As for Industrial ages... I have few ideas but lets talk about it when we get a little close.

We certainly should go for Astronomy->Navigation next, for both trading and waring against those Civs. Free Artistry is just too far away right now.

DeceasedHorse,

can you please, please, please put years into your turn log. Have you ever tried to go back and work out what is going on in a game where players don't do that. I just did it recently and had to spend time counting back turns to work out dates from your turns.

I'm looking forward to your explanation of why Passage Blocker did get moved, certainly after your little joke about doing it.

OK guys, here goes. First of all it was not any fun at all to try to pick through all bad decisions made during "ten turns that shocked the team". DH what is going on???? You do not communicate with the team about the game in progress and apparently you do not read the thread (if you did none of the mistakes would have been necessary).

Turn log

0 – 550AD
Some MMing, moved 10 workers to a forest near Rusicade to chop it. Will hurry the Marketplace by 1 turn.

1 – 560AD
Theveste builds Temple, Cathedral started. Dispersed a Barb.Camp.Dispersed a Barb.Camp.

2 – 570AD
Carthage builds Marketplace, Numidian Mercenary started. Leptis Magna builds Settler, starts Worker. Delhi raised.


3 – 580AD
We research Banking, next Astronomy (5turns). Rusicade builds Marketplace, Cathedral started.

4 – 590AD
Carthage builds Cathedral, Bank started. Peace with Vikings, They got Engineering for 33 gold in the deal. Peace with Babylon including Theology for 58 gold and 20 gpt. Sold Monotheism for 53 gold to Greece.

5 – 600AD
Sabarath builds Cathedral, Colosseum started.

IBT: Ottomans demand Monotheism, I decline their “offer”. Greece demands Theology, I reject and they DoW.

6 – 610AD
Nada

7 – 620AD
Nada

8 – 630AD
EDIT: Astronomy -> Navigation

9 – 640AD
Nada

10 – 650AD
Rusicade builds Cathedral, Colosseum started. Two forests chopped for 20 shields twords the colosseum. Sold Monotheism to Ottomans for 13 gold and 4 gpt.

After action report:
A peaceful 10 turns with nothing really eventful happening thanks to DH’s gpt deals with India. No Leader farming, just building infrastructure and preparing for Dman’s opportunity to DoW in 4 turns. I agree this DoW should be on Persia since they are the stronger of the two.

Another mine is being built on a mountain near Utica, ready next turn. If you move a citizen from a grassland tile to a mountain with 1 spt you will notice that it will already at 1 extra spt cut 1 turn off the completion date of the GW. That means that the extra shields needed for completion in 8 turns (now 9) is between 1 and 8. I have switched the citizen to the mountain now and please check it each turn for when it can be returned to the grassland since we lose 3 fpt when working another mountain. The mine will produce next turn since it finishes then.

Only activity I could have some fun with was to plant/chop forests around Rusicade to hurry the builds a bit. Next steps if Dman should decide to follow it is to add two more chops to Rusicade. Step by step, do it like this:
1. Mine Lambs.
2. Chop forest finished next to Rusicade
3. Plant forest in plains as indicated on map and chop
4. This will add 20 shields to Rusicade = 1 turn’s production
5. All tiles with a red/white ring has been used for this already.

We have Caravel tech now but the economy is in a bad shape so please do not upgrade yet. We will probably never need to use the connect/disconnect exploit in this game since gold will probably be a rare commodity. Just to upgrade the HMs we have now is a major endeavour. Also in this matter my thoughts goes to DH and his phenomenal ability to work against the team when rushing the University in Utica for 320 gold. MMing is done to generate max amount of beakers now.

Next on research: PP, Democracy, FA (my vote on this order)

Firaxis: 505
Culture: 3004 (63/turn)
No attacks!!!!!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Smacksterforest.JPG

Ok, finally i will get a chance to fight a little...

One gray area - research path.
Let's make a final decision: do we go directly to PP-Dem.-FA or research navigation 1st (Magellan's) and then move to the path towards FA with Sheakspeare's.

Oops! Sorry about that but a line was missing in the turn report. Turn 8 Astronomy -> Navigation. You have 3 turns of Navigation research left.

And your suggestion to gift Republic to Celts. Again sorry about that but I totally forgot about it in my "intense" game... ;) Gift it to them in your turns...

Get Navigation first, as we can trade some more, and make our way to fight somebody else if we want, although the easier picking on that Island are better. I don't think its that far going east however.

How much military do we have on the Island now? Can we cut Persias Iron.

smackster

I would hold off going to another theater until we have upgraded to Knights. Else it will be very cumbersome to upgrade our Horsemen when it is time to do it.

I did not build any military units, the economy is very weak so adding support costs was just not a good idea in my opinion.

Navigation is ready in 3 turns, my mistake the line about it was missing in my report.

First Iron is visible in the pic above. Going via the Persian city just west of the picture above opens for an attack on the next city (with the second iron) the turn after. I guess it would be possible to have a horseman move ontop of the second Iron in turn 1 of the new war with Persia after taking the city mentioned above.

EDIT: CivAssist estimates finish in 1856. That is 213 turns from now.

Yes you are probably right, no need to send what limited forces we have anywhere else, when we do have good enough leader farming on our island. Cutting their iron will just help us and keep them building spears and longbows for the rest of the game :)

One thing that the team needs to consider for the rest of the game, is not to weaken either Persia or India too much, don't go after anymore cities even. Also we do need to give them periods of rest so that they can build their forces up for us. And don't get them to fight each other, as we don't want them losing units to each other, only to us.

Yes, we don't want to weaken Persia much, but I still like the idea of razing Persian capital.
I don't know if we have enough army at the moment though.

Yes, we don't want to weaken Persia much, but I still like the idea of razing Persian capital.
I don't know if we have enough army at the moment though.
Any reason why? They pose no threat to us, and if they lose their capital that will effect their ability to build troops.

Note: I'm away from this afternoon until Sunday, so might not get onto email. I would like to play my turns and will do as they come up on Sunday.

Here is my "I got it"..
I am planning to play tonight.
If you have any suggestions you still have time. :)

I hope i did okay this time and here is my turn log:


Pre Turn - Gifted Celts a Republic and they are polite towards us.

T1. 660AD - Workers in Utica finished mine, put it on starvation diet - Copernicus in 7. Theveste cathedral -> bank, changed tiles in Theveste to maximize production output. Carphage bank - horseman, checked the troops readiness for the upcoming war.

T2. 670AD - Science down to 40% navigation in 2 turns; +66GPT with 85 in treasury. Workers are doing MMg near Rusicade.

T3. 680 AD - one forest tile previously planted has been chopped near Rusicade; irrigating it again.

T4. 690 AD - Navigation is invented; PP in 4 turns at 80% science -15GPT. Ottomans and Persians are building Leo's...
Everyone can trade with us now... All nations are leveled in research and everybody seemed to get Invention, but luck education.

Trade Agreements:
Traded Spices and wool with Babylon in exchange of incense, world map and 12 gold. Gave Bismarck Monotheism for dyes world map and 28 gold.
Guess what happened - Persian settler pair entered our territory and after I asked them to leave they declared a war on us. Mad Xerxes. Catapult bombards pikeman, elite MD attacks and Hamilcar raises!!!! Hip Hop Hurray!!!! Sending Hamilcar home to rush next wonder what ever it will be...

IBT Persian MD attacks our elite horse, elite horse dies 
Persian archer vs. vet horse -> archer dies.
WLTKD is celebrated in all of our cities.

T5. 700 AD - Horses attack and raze Tyrane, no losses, 2 slaves captured.
Our vet Horse attacks 2hp Persian MD -> horse dies MD is promoted
Our vet horse attacks same MD -> MD dies this time, horse redlined.
Vet horse attacks vet Pers MD -> horse redlines retreats.
Vet horse attacks 2hp pers MD -> MD dies.
Susa will be attacked next turn.

T6, 710 AD Rusicade produces Bank. Switches to horse.
Susa siege:
Our MD attacks vet pikeman, wins and promoted;
Our MD attacks reg pikeman and wins;
Our MD attacks MD wins;
Our MD attacks Longbow wins
Susa is raised, we captured 6 slaves.
Horse attacks MD wins and settler is enslaved
Science down to 70%. PP in 2 turns
Hamilcar is delivered to Utica. Copernicus in 2 turns.
Rusicade finished bank -> Horseman

IBT Pers. elite MD attacks vet NM, we lose.

T7. 720 vet Archer attacks 1hp elite MD we win. All roads to Persepolis are cut. Although I didn't get to the Persia's second iron yet, hopefully Persepolis has no access to it...
I don't have enough troops to support more intensive campaign and RNG takes it toll.
Sponge Bob attacks reg MD Sponge Bob wins.
I am taking wounded troops back to Rusicade to heal.
Okay, I didn't want to sell education before to broken AIs for invention + nothing in gold. Now I notice Germans have invention and willing to trade... They give Invention and 10 gold in exchange for Theology and ivory... Sounded like a good deal at a time...
Copernicus is ready in 1 turn.

T8 730 AD Copernicus is built, switch and rush Magellan’s. PP is researched...
Wow..., it will take 8 turns to research democracy with -1Gpt, can't do any more than that, our treasury is low.

Now when we have PP we can sell communications. As we previously thought Persians and Indians are not known to the rest of the gang. Germans and Celts also don't know about each other...
I am not trading at the moment since AIs are far away from researching navigation and frankly they won't give us much in return. I'd wait until our luxury trades expire and then trade communications in exchange for luxuries.
Xerxes founded new city of Samaria, I am planning to raze it next turn and start staging attack on a city with second iron. Upgraded one galley to caravel

T9 740 AD. Magellan’s is completed in Utica, switched to Leo (could be switched to whatever is next of course).
Sabratha finished bank -> horse.
Vet Horse attacks pers vet pike, pike dies, and settler is enslaved.
Vet horse attacks reg pike in Samara, horse dies pike promoted with full life.
Vet horse attack vet pike -> pike dies.
Vet horse attacks reg pike -> horse dies pike redlined.
3 hp elite MD attacks 1hp pike -> pike dies.
4horsemen moved on top of Persia’s iron in Antioch.
Indian sword with settler appears next to Rusicade borders.
Persian pike appeared within Rusicade southern border will deal with him next turn. Upgraded one more galley.
Upgraded elite leader generated archer to Longbow.

T10 750AD Theveste finished bank -MD, MMing it a little to maximize gold, Rusicade MD->MD
Arrghh, Indians built new city of Hyderabad shrinking Rusicade cultural border.
Attacking Antioch:
Our vet horse vs. vet pike -> pike dies horse promoted to elite
Our vet horse vs. reg pike -> pike dies.
Antioch is razed, Iron is pillaged

Island map:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm4smackster750ADmap.JPG

Persia is down to 6 cities, India has grown to 5.... If we make peace with Persia now they give 67 gold and 44 GPT and we can start picking at Gandhi. I don’t think Persian’s have much troops left and Persepolis is building Leo so it is no use for the troop generating purposes.

Ottomans and Germans have money for GPT deals as well; I will leave this decision to the next player

We have 3653 culture in Utica and 70 per turn. Estimated win day according to CIv Assist in 1820BC.
As Always: WE NEED MORE LEADERS!!!!

Democracy is in 6 turns, 124 Gold and +10GPT in treasury. If we make a peace with Xerxes we can bump science slider a little.

Sabratha tiles are set to produce max gold, so no surprises when you see some shield generating tiles are not in use.
Same is true for the Theveste and Rusicade.
I wasn't exactly sure what to do with workers in our main continent...
I choped one forest outside of Theveste city limits, but then didn't do anything else with them for the rest of my turns.


Save is here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm4/Smackster_SG004_AD0750_01.SAV)

Well played!!! Havn't looked at the save yet but taking the deal with Persia for gold seems to be a good deal. Then take a turn of peace to reduce WW (Are we still at war with Greece?) and attack India for some leader farming.

EDIT: have had a look at the save now and just a couple of small suggestions. Theveste MM it to produce 15 spt and change build to Horseman. Rusicade: MM it to produce 20 spt (now19) by moving a citizen from an irrigated Plains to the mined plains w. furs.

Also, we are still at war with Greece, make peace with them for theology and their gold. Make peace with Persia for the deal suggested by Dman and we can have Democracy sooner. Then shift attention to India for a while.

There's no way I'll get to the game before saturday (At the earliest), so I'll need another swap :(

There's no way I'll get to the game before saturday (At the earliest), so I'll need another swap :(
I see no reason why we need to do a swap, Smackster is away until sunday anyway and if you play on saturday or sunday it will still be "within the 72 hrs" after an "I got it" if we are to be really strict with the rules. And with the time difference Smackster will probably not be in a position to play his turns until Sunday night (our time) anyway.

Well played!!! Havn't looked at the save yet but taking the deal with Persia for gold seems to be a good deal. Then take a turn of peace to reduce WW (Are we still at war with Greece?) and attack India for some leader farming.

We don't have WW and we can have all the luxuries we can possibly get so WW won't be an issue for quite some time. Persia has 3rd iron, so we might raze the last Persian city with iron and then make peace few turns later, although in that case i think Xerxes will have less money to pay us in GPT.


MM it to produce 20 spt (now19) by moving a citizen from an irrigated Plains to the mined plains w. furs.

I think i moved it to irrigated plains to load granary a little, I kept Rusicade on starvation diet while building a bank.


EDIT: I agree on having a little break until saturday. I never started COTM5, so i can use that time for Conquests of the month :)

MORE EDITS: Although spoiler thread is opened i suggest we postpone posting anything in there... 20k victory pretty much depends on how teams play AA and i'd like to keep it to ourselves for some time or until all teams pass AA.

We don't have WW and we can have all the luxuries we can possibly get so WW won't be an issue for quite some time. Persia has 3rd iron, so we might raze the last Persian city with iron and then make peace few turns later, although in that case i think Xerxes will have less money to pay us in GPT.
We might have a low WW right now but when the next "level" of WW hits we will probably feel it. Getting of back to zero WW by peace w. both Greece and Persia will allow us to stay at war longer after DoW on India. And since we do not know how long that war will be and what will happen later on I would like us to enter the war with India with a "clean slate"

I think i moved it to irrigated plains to load granary a little, I kept Rusicade on starvation diet while building a bank.
Moving it to the furs tile will still give us a food surplus just +1 instead of +2. And we will build a MDI every second turn wo any wasted shields.

MORE EDITS: Although spoiler thread is opened i suggest we postpone posting anything in there... 20k victory pretty much depends on how teams play AA and i'd like to keep it to ourselves for some time or until all teams pass AA.
And since our team scribe, Tarkeel, is busy at the moment it is just as well we postpone it until he has the time to put a report together.

Yep, that's actually what i had in my head - making peace before DoW with India...
the problem with India is they are very very weak and don't have much troops to put against us for leader hunting... Most of their cities are quite low on pop and production :sad:.

Greece was so stubborn during my turns and never had much money in exchange for peace and theology.

Well, It looks like it will be just Wotan and I for next couple of days.
I wonder where Scoutsout is... He never showed up since the last hurricane hit Florida... I certainly hope he is alright.

So after sheakspear's where do we go next????
I'd say we can research economics fast and build Smith's. It has 3cultures plus offsets maintenance costs on markets, banks etc...
I certainly hope we would get a leader or better two to rush Smith's and Leo...
Then we can start working full speed towards physics to get Newton's.

IMHO, first tech to research in IA -> Steam power followed by Industrialization (we've got to have a factory and railroads all around Utica ASAP) and then full ahead towards ToE (well, may be sanitation in and between to have a hospital in Utica) and then do nothing until modern ages.
(few small wonders, and hopefully Heroic Epic as well)

I am just putting ideas early so we have the general strategic plan to pursue and I am sure my ideas will be and ought to be corrected.


As of right now... well.... all we need is to generate some leaders,

It is as you put it a question of if/when/how many leaders we can generate. If a leader appears within the next 10-15 turns we should switch to Shakespear and finish that manually. Then rush Leo's if still available or Smith's (if a leader appers pretty soon we should go for Economics), if not maybe have it on the back burner and swap to research it if we enter a period of Leaders Galore.

I concur with the rest of your ideas, Rail is vital to boost production in Utica and when we approach that discovery we should move a pile of the workers to our home island. Just keep your fingers crossed we have coal near. And Saltpeter when Gunpowder appears, which should become available through the assistance of our friendly neighbours (and Chivalry).

if we get leader in less than 8-10 turns, we can switch Utica to Bank -> rush it if needed (and it will be build with no wasted shields) and then rush wonder, preferably sheakspears.

Looks like I have some 'splaining to do...

RE: The S.S. Passage blocker getting moved-honestly, I do not know how this happened. I remember making a stupid joke about it-I must have accidently un-fortified it at that point and then moved it.

RE: Silly worker actions-I suppose I should have found something more constructive to do with the workers remaining on our home continent, possibly tree farming or constructing fortresses while waiting for sufficent shipping to open up and move them over to Rusicade, but as it was, I just had some workers mining for no particular reason.

RE: Me not paying attention-partially true. Part of this is due to having to adapt to college life, but that does not mean I do not screw off in class sometimes and couldn't use my kick-ass wireless connection to check the forums. In some respects, any input I might have has generally proven redundent or not particularly helpful. I have no prior experiance with playing civ competetively, that is for a high score, nor am I as familiar with vanilla/play the world as I am with Conquests. Furthermore, some of my actions were motivated by a desire to not rock the boat, so to speak. If I was playing this game solo, I would never have launched the attack on Pasagradae during my turn set; I would have grabbed Chivalry (easy enough for us to do so at this point, but something that does not contribute directly to our victory condition) but felt compelled to do so. As an additonal example, I squandered an elite numidian because I felt pressured to generate more leaders for the cause. Micro-management has never been my strong points; staggering research in the method I did to coincide with production is about the best I can pull off, and even that technique is something I do not do normally. I will make more of an effort to visit more often, and will stop if I have question as we don't really have any time pressure at present.

Okay fellows, It's saturday afternoon here.
We have had a long pause and i hope today is the last day before everyone will be able to return to the game....
Hopefully Tarkeel plays sunday and Smacskter will be able to catch with the game tomorrow as well...
Otherwise it's been booooooooooring :)

I'm back, looks like I didn't miss too much. Hopefully Tarkeel can get to it tomorrow and then I can too, and we'll be back on track.

smackster

Looks like I have some 'splaining to do...

RE: The S.S. Passage blocker getting moved-honestly, I do not know how this happened. I remember making a stupid joke about it-I must have accidently un-fortified it at that point and then moved it.

RE: Silly worker actions-I suppose I should have found something more constructive to do with the workers remaining on our home continent, possibly tree farming or constructing fortresses while waiting for sufficent shipping to open up and move them over to Rusicade, but as it was, I just had some workers mining for no particular reason.

RE: Me not paying attention-partially true. Part of this is due to having to adapt to college life, but that does not mean I do not screw off in class sometimes and couldn't use my kick-ass wireless connection to check the forums. In some respects, any input I might have has generally proven redundent or not particularly helpful. I have no prior experiance with playing civ competetively, that is for a high score, nor am I as familiar with vanilla/play the world as I am with Conquests. Furthermore, some of my actions were motivated by a desire to not rock the boat, so to speak. If I was playing this game solo, I would never have launched the attack on Pasagradae during my turn set; I would have grabbed Chivalry (easy enough for us to do so at this point, but something that does not contribute directly to our victory condition) but felt compelled to do so. As an additonal example, I squandered an elite numidian because I felt pressured to generate more leaders for the cause. Micro-management has never been my strong points; staggering research in the method I did to coincide with production is about the best I can pull off, and even that technique is something I do not do normally. I will make more of an effort to visit more often, and will stop if I have question as we don't really have any time pressure at present.

Just for the record we do want you playing actively as it adds a lot to this game, and it is just a game, but you know the rest of us probably take it a little bit too seriously.

Mananaging real life and civ time is hard for all of us, but I for one would not want to suggest you put more time into this, rather than college time. I think what would really help is before each game that you play, you just put down a quick summary of how you are going to play it, based on our various posts, take your time over playing it, but just keep us informed whats going on.

smackster

Sounds good. And I would like to retirate that it is not like I am partying/studing 24/7 or anything; I've also been playing Rome: Total War a whole lot ;) as well.

Sounds good. And I would like to retirate that it is not like I am partying/studing 24/7 or anything; I've also been playing Rome: Total War a whole lot ;) as well.
You are not, oh that's a shame :lol:

I had a look at Rome Total War, looks like a good game, but my laptop could not handle the graphics.

while waiting for sufficent shipping to open up and move them over to Rusicade, but as it was.
I do not think moving them to Rusicade is in our best interest. We will soon (hopefully) be in industrial Age and wanting to rail our little empire so I would rather think we will move workers from Rusicade.

Part of this is due to having to adapt to college life, but that does not mean I do not screw off in class sometimes and couldn't use my kick-ass wireless connection to check the forums. In some respects, any input I might have has generally proven redundent or not particularly helpful. I have no prior experiance with playing civ competetively, that is for a high score, nor am I as familiar with vanilla/play the world as I am with Conquests. Furthermore, some of my actions were motivated by a desire to not rock the boat, so to speak. If I was playing this game solo, I would never have launched the attack on Pasagradae during my turn set; I would have grabbed Chivalry (easy enough for us to do so at this point, but something that does not contribute directly to our victory condition) but felt compelled to do so. As an additonal example, I squandered an elite numidian because I felt pressured to generate more leaders for the cause. Micro-management has never been my strong points; staggering research in the method I did to coincide with production is about the best I can pull off, and even that technique is something I do not do normally. I will make more of an effort to visit more often, and will stop if I have question as we don't really have any time pressure at present.
Micromanaging 5 (five) cities for 10 turns can't be regarded as a burden, I sincerely can't see how this would damage a players chances of a RL. In SGOTM3, MMing was less important at the same stage in the game since we had ample resourses but that is not the case in this game. What can MMing add to the current game? 20 minutes for the 10 turn stint? Probably not that long so...
In a game with so few cities you do have a real opportunity to learn how to MM too so I see no real defense in just simply stating it as "never been my strong points". We are 5 players in this game and not pulling your weight is to make the game less of a challenge/experience/pleasure for the team.

To sum it up: If you are not really capable/willing to participate in a team effort, develop you game skills and communicate with the rest of the team why play in a team game???

EDIT: Just a thought DH, you might have a defensive approach in Civ similar to my way of playing the game prior to my CivFanatics days. I too would pull back and wait for techs to "come in" before going to war. Often waiting for Rails and Tanks. Not anymore since it is not needed. You discussed pulling back and await Railroads in SGOTM3 and now you considered researching Chivalry before taking out Pasargadae. I can only advise you to try to be a bit cooler about the odds of going to war with less powerful units. It is not necessary to wait for better techs, check cotm5 for a lot of AA warfare.

Smackster, go ahead and take it. Monday is the earliest I can take it atm :(

OK, I've got it and I'll play later today

I think we should start moving workers to the main island now.

We have tons of slaves in Rusicade and we will need tons of slaves to rail all those mountains around Utica and with the number of vessels we have it will take long time to move them across the sea, so we better start now. We don't need them in Rusicade anyway.

We are making peace with Persians for GPTs and starting war against India this set of turns, right????


@Smackster - Good luck on getting those much needed leaders...

Yes agreed with moving the slaves. I'm not going to get peace with Persia yet, although the gold is nice I'd like to make sure we have enough opponents to fight. I will play defence now with persia, and declare war on India when our troops are better positioned for them.

Don't know if anyone is online, but I'm looking to switch to Democracy, I don't see where we discussed that. I'm sure it makes sense, WW is nothing and the tech pace is too slow.

Democracy??? :confused:
It might not be a good idea... we will only loose 4+ turns of not having culture added to the box....
at least we should put it to the team vote first and i hope you have not done it quite yet.
WW will become an issue indeed, the only way to win this game - generate leaders, that means to stay at war more or less permanently. WW is nothing now because we are republic and with republic and enough lux. we can keep fighting indefinetely, this trick won't work with democracy, plus our cities have lots of foreigners, that will be a real killer when we switch to democracy.

I am afraid, I don't really see how democracy can help us here
Even if you make peace it takes 20 turns of peace for WW to dissolve. We can not have such long gaps without fighting and in future we will have to fight whether we want it or not, simply because AIs will try to land on our island and then we will either have to fight or put a slave on every shore square.

I'm only concerned that we get to a point where we have no more culture buildings to build and leaders available, but that is probably silly. I waited and the deciding factor in addition to your email was that we can get Free Artistry in 5 turns. I can't believe how fast we can research with only 5 cities. We can always switch later if we are finding that we are really having a problem with research.

Still playing, taking my sweet time over it.

smackster

T0 750AD

Upgrade an archer
Send some workers home
Move some troops into place to attack India next turn

IBT
Persia move their galleys, but I see no other troops

T1 760AD
Find a couple of elites and we move the rest of the troops to the front. Lots of healing troops in Rusicade in case we need some defence against Persia.

Get peace with Greece for their gold and our Theology. Sell India contact to both Germany (4 GPT, and 36 gold) and Ottoman (2 GPT and 13), which gets us close to getting Democracy one turn closer, but I just feel that one turn is not worth 20 turns of peace with Persia
There is no WW, but Rusicade has a few Indians who don't like it now. I feel there is little harm in telling the world about India, there is not much threat there.

Spare workers pushed out into the front lines as bait

IBT
Persia send out a couple of lb's to take our workers, leaving them exposed

T2 770AD
3 Horses go into Kolhapur, two spears are killed, one horse rereats, and an archer is left there.
We pick off the Persian lb and MI, with an elite win (1)

As we have more Galley/Caravels that we need, send one round to the east

IBT
Another Persian LB attacks our LB and we die. India try to sneak a spear/settler by us

T3 780AD
Carthage expands its borders

Elite MI attacks lb and wins (2).

Horse attacks pike in Kolhapur, and kills him. Decide to wait for elites before more attacks

Need just 34 gold to get Democracy next turn. Look at Germany who have only two cities, decide to continue trading with them, always want to think about who we get a deal with, so trade wool for 13 gold and 2 GPT
Ottoman for 11 gold and 4 GPT for wool. Need 4 more. Scrape it together from Celts for India contact

T4 790AD
Democracy comes in and don't switch. We can get Free Artistry in 6 with +12 GPT

Line up 3 elites for attack on Kolhapur next turn.

A quick diplomacy check tells me that nobody has any GPT available.

IBT
We lose a worker to Indian archer, and one to barbs that have appeared on the west coast of Persia/India

T5 800AD
First elite attacks Kolahpur and raises it, second takes out the archer, two elite wins (4)

Take out the barbs on the west and get a horse elite upgrade

India have settled Bengal next to persia

IBT
Persia send out a lb to attack a horse we retreat, he's now in range of our elite horse

T6 810AD
Attack the Persia LB with our elite horse (5)
On the east move 3 elites in place to attack Jaipur next turn

Start to move troops on Tarsus, defended by pikes.

T7 820AD
Our elites attack Jaipur, but find only one defender and have to raize it (6). I think I extended this too far, sending another Caravel round to the east and not sending any more troops to Persia/India as they are both just too weak.

I'm building just horses as I'm expecting Chivalry from the AI anytime, and just ugprading them to Knights is better than building MI, IMHO.

The Caravel arrives on our east coast and we have an MI, NM and a horse that will take the first trip. Scandinavia have probably many spare troops so it will be tough going for a while


T8 830AD
We push three elites outside Sardis to attack that next turn.

Our stack attacks Tarsus, looking for some upgrades. We lose two horses and the two pike defenders are killed, no elite upgrades. Tarsus is raised.

T9 840AD
2 of the elites outside Sardis attack and die, can you belive it. Third attacks stray LB and kills him (7)

CivAssist says that Babylon have a load of cash, and they will give us 89 gold and 21 GPT for Printing Press. I'm afraid I clicked ok and then thought that I should have tried Education, but its too late this will let them trade their map, but then nobody has any cash anyway.

T10 850AD
We research Free Artistry, and find that Babylon have Gunpowder and Ottoman research Chivalry. I was thinking they would never get their. Now we can start to upgrade some of those horses.
I start to research Economics.

I pull back the Caravel from Scandy, might as well send Knights over there.

Two elites are in range of new India city for next turn.

Troops are camping out on iron, all three spots. Awaiting any interoplers. Still don't want peace with anyone.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/850ad.jpg

We do now have WW in Rusicade, assume this is Persia causing it and therefore maybe we should get that peace with them.

Rusicade should be switched to a Knight once we get that

We can generate about 229GPT, which may be worth doing for at least a turn to give us gold for the upgrades. We have 149 in the bank. Leo's is still 18 turns away.

There is a second galley two turns from the east pickup point. A third has just started out, leaving two in the west.

A couple of horses are asleep in Sabratha, they need to be woken and upgraded once we get Chivalry, there are three others there but I stupidly hit space bar on this trying to clean up my turn.
Suggest we fill two Caravels with Knights and pay a visit to Scandanavia.

Utica culture 4356 72/turn

Alright, I've checked the save...

Persia and India are totall mess, I agree with Smacskter, lets load few caravels and sail to Scandinavian shores.

I strongly recommend for the next player to switch Utica from Leo to Sheakspeare's....
It will be ready in 9 turns and give us 8 culture point vs. Leo in 18 turns and 2 culture. Should be no brainer.... In this game we've got to get culture as early and as much as possible. Let's hope we will get a leader later for Leo's.

As soon as economics is researched we need to research full speed towards Newtons; the sooner we get those 6CPT from newtons the better. After that, I don't think we should research MT at all in this game, but rather head towards steam power->Industrialization->Scientific Methods.

It should be possible to trade Gunpowder and chivalry with AIs...
We should give priority to Gunpowder since it will give us a shortcut towards our main goal -> building Newton's. Babylon won't trade at the moment, but we still have few turns while we resarching economics, and hopefully other AIs will get gunpowder, making this technology cheaper for us to get.

Alright, I've checked the save...
Persia and India are totall mess, I agree with Smacskter, lets load few caravels and sail to Scandinavian shores.

Note the Caravels already in place to do this on the east coast.


I strongly recommend for the next player to switch Utica from Leo to Sheakspeare's....
It will be ready in 9 turns and give us 8 culture point vs. Leo in 18 turns and 2 culture. Should be no brainer.... In this game we've got to get culture as early and as much as possible. Let's hope we will get a leader later for Leo's.

Yes should have switched that, I didn't realise that Shakespears was so cheap compared with Leo's so that is good news.

Persia and India are totall mess, I agree with Smacskter, lets load few caravels and sail to Scandinavian shores.
Wait for Horseman->Knight upgrades before sailing since no upgrading will be available on Scandinavian island.

I strongly recommend for the next player to switch Utica from Leo to Sheakspeare's....It will be ready in 9 turns and give us 8 culture point vs. Leo in 18 turns and 2 culture. Should be no brainer.... In this game we've got to get culture as early and as much as possible. Let's hope we will get a leader later for Leo's.

Yes!

It should be possible to trade Gunpowder and chivalry with AIs...
We should give priority to Gunpowder since it will give us a shortcut towards our main goal -> building Newton's. Babylon won't trade at the moment, but we still have few turns while we resarching economics, and hopefully other AIs will get gunpowder, making this technology cheaper for us to get.
I guess waiting for a turn or two will give it to us for a better price, the AI will certainly trade them between themselves soon.

Agree with Dman: No on revolt to Democracy! The major bonus would be speedier Worker actions and that is a non-issue.

Are we not selling WM's? I cannot see any comments re. this in the turn report. The WM's should harvest a few gold each turn. And with our economy every little bit counts....

WW in Rusicade: Probably due to war with India since majority of Rusicade citizens are Indians.

Peace with Persia? If it gives us a financially sound deal.

And finally, Leader farming... Bad luck Smackster, We are probably closing in on "averages" now. 4 leaders so far in the game and only 1 leader in the last 30 turns with probably 20-25 elite attacks.

Wait for Horseman->Knight upgrades before sailing since no upgrading will be available on Scandinavian island.

There is one horse on a Caravel that needs to be unloaded on the east coast, I believe one Caravel with three horses going round the cape, the rest on the home continent are waiting to be upgraded.


Are we not selling WM's? I cannot see any comments re. this in the turn report. The WM's should harvest a few gold each turn. And with our economy every little bit counts....

We have not sold it yet at all, the value is high, but when the AI had cash I was able to sell them something else. We need to keep looking and seeing what we can get for it.


WW in Rusicade: Probably due to war with India since majority of Rusicade citizens are Indians.

If you click on the sad citizen in Rusicade it is now 50% "stop agression to our home", and 16% WW. That 16% only came in on the last turn, after I had lost a few troops attacking Persia. Therefore I think the 16% is Persia not India.


Peace with Persia? If it gives us a financially sound deal.

I think the WW decides it and gives them a chance to recover a bit.

Well, who's playing next anyways???
Did Tarkeel swap his turns or skipped???

EDIT: I would wait on selling WMs until the time when our lux deal expire..
AIs will probably pay with much needed luxuries and maybe even some gold in exchange for WMs.

Well, who's playing next anyways???
Did Tarkeel swap his turns or skipped???

EDIT: I would wait on selling WMs for the time when our lux deal expire..
AIs will probably pay with much needed luxuries and maybe even some gold in exchange of WMs.
Yes exactly what I was thinking when I didn't sell them, I think :blush:

Tarkeel swapped I thought, so lets give him 24 hours to take it. DeseasedHorse is on deck again.

Roster
Wotan
Dman
Tarkeel (playing)
smackster (just played)
DeseasedHorse (on deck)

I'd like to veto another revolution. We don't make culture in the anarchy turns, and more worker speed isn't worth it imho.

Edit: Hehe, forgot to view the next page :)

I'd like to veto another revolution. We don't make culture in the anarchy turns, and more worker speed isn't worth it imho.

Edit: Hehe, forgot to view the next page :)
Yes no revolution in hand. As long as we get techs (and can start wonders) in time for our leaders then there is no reason to go Democracy, and it may well be that we can't justify the loss of culture or production during that time.

I assume that you have the save and are looking at it. The trading for Chivalry/Gunpowder maybe complex so will need some thought.

smackster

I'll look at it and play tomorrow...

Also, remember that the only benefit with democracy is faster worker speed, and we have more slaves then we need already.

I'll look at it and play tomorrow...

Also, remember that the only benefit with democracy is faster worker speed, and we have more slaves then we need already.
We would see lower corruption in our two outlying cities, but I'm sure its nowhere near enough to justify the switch. It will be interesting to see once Ainwood gets the corruption section sorted out in CivAssist

Actually, I am quite suprised to see how low the corruption is.

We will have factories and rails in no time and I reckon we will be able to build units in the same number of turns whether we are in democracy or republic due to the shields waste.

I've been thinking....

Just in case Tarkeel will get us a leader and i hope he will...
I have two suggestions to discuss:
1. manually build Sheakspeare's and once it's built rush Leos with leader.
2. Create an army, win a battle, manually build sheakspeare's, build Heroic Epic, forget about Leo's unless another leader is born...

I fancy the second suggestion. I think it's time for us to get Heroic Epic... We will have plenty of turns between now and the time we can start bulding Newtons so we can squees HE between. And frankly I would not miss Leo much, HE gives us more culture.

What do you guys think? :hmm:

EDIT:
@Tarkeel: Move citizen in Utica from plains to mountain tile, it will shave one turn on ST. Remember to get us gunpowder ;) , scrap that archer garrisoning in Utica somewhere else, he is no use for us.

WOTAN: I think you misunderstood me. I wasn''t saying that the demands on my time are too much, only that I am still getting used to them, that is all. I agree that my performance has not been acceptable. And in regards to war-making, I understand. I remember when I thought that taking an infantry-defended city before tanks was all but impossible, and now I do it all the time.

Very impressive guys!!!
My congratulations to Smackster for the COTM4 award in fastest conquest
and to Wotan for the very high score.... :goodjob: :hatsoff:
and I couldn't do any better than mediocre finish that placed me in 45th roster position. :blush:

I like Leo's as it will make it easier for us cut the iron, build horses, hook up iron, upgrade. Which eventually should result in more leaders, however I do like the idea of getting the Heroic Epic too, which in itself will result in more leaders.

I am not sure the connect/disconnect trick will be any help in this game. We will probably be rather low on gold if we are to keep up the research throughout the game.

Great results with 2 in the top 10 and 3 in the top 50. I thought I had a chance of an award in this one, but kept quiet lest somebody else got there first. I can see my score suffered a bit as I made very little attempt to fill the land space.

I am not sure the connect/disconnect trick will be any help in this game. We will probably be rather low on gold if we are to keep up the research throughout the game.
Which is a valid point, and the AI has proved so far that he can't research much for us. Although in a way that is the point if we get Leo's maybe we have the gold for the upgrades.

Is it time to help the AI with technology a little. Actually I was thinking that for Tarkeels turns he might be able to determine if any of the AI is researching Chemistry, by using his own trick of seeing if the AI value of one of the top rung techs (that we have) is going down. Then again this might not work as the AI has so little cash.

Very impressive guys!!!
My congratulations to Smackster for the COTM4 award in fastest conquest
and to Wotan for the very high score.... :goodjob: :hatsoff:
and I couldn't do any better than mediocre finish that placed me in 45th roster position. :blush:
When I first started playing Gotm I was in the "midfield" around 40-60th place. I gradually improved my game and "got stuck" around 20-30th place but the real "insight" into Civ3 was gained when playing on team Kuningas in SGOTM2. After that I have been on/close to the top 10 in every game. And it was all to do with aggressiveness! I guess that is the main benefit from SGOTM, you learn a lot more from actively interacting with other players.

When I first started playing Gotm I was in the "midfield" around 40-60th place. I gradually improved my game and "got stuck" around 20-30th place but the real "insight" into Civ3 was gained when playing on team Kuningas in SGOTM2. After that I have been on/close to the top 10 in every game. And it was all to do with aggressiveness! I guess that is the main benefit from SGOTM, you learn a lot more from actively interacting with other players.
Agreed, playing on these SG's is what allowed me to improve, I would never have got it on my own, even with reading all those articles. I it doesn't stop even in this game I feel I've learned a lot already.

Now, I feel really stupid..... :blush:
I reckon i just don't like beeing aggressive and would never end up in top 10... :)

Leo vs. HE
Leo gives us 2 CPT and HE - 4CPT.

AI trades... AIs are currently broken but they will pay us top $$$ when everybody switches to IA.
In my test 5CC games i had 4 or even 5 digit income towards the late of the game and kept science at 100% all the time. The only problem with that was that AI were behind 1 or 2 techs at max which we don't care much about since we are after 20K.

EDIT: I have a suggestion.... AIs will have Navigation sooner than later, we will have to protect our island or at least those parts with Lux colonies... I suggest we line up slaves (they can road those tiles as well) along the borders between Utica and old Rome location and along the Ivory coast. We can keep empty southern shore and let AIs to land over there, that way we can do a little leader hunting on our own land.

Now, I feel really stupid..... :blush:
I reckon i just don't like beeing aggressive and would never end up in top 10... :)
Don't worry, your game has probably improved a lot too. As Smackster also commented on earlier in this game. you have moved from being a reactive player to a proactive one. In SGOTM3 a lot of your ideas got rejected,but not in this game... You have evolved from a ? to a !. :goodjob:

Hmm... I just can't get PTW to run again :( I've even done a reinstall, and I don't have time to mess too much with it atm.. Will try to get it up, and will see when I can jump back in :) If that's ok with you guys? Should have some time to look at it later in the week... Hopefully... Too many projects :(

Are you trying to run PTW from the PTW disk, or Conquests disk?

Are you skipping, as I wasn't sure from your message.

smackster

OK, DH is up then. Show us what you are made of. :)

EDIT: I interpreted it as a skip, maybe I was wrong?

@Tarkeel: Do you want me to ship you US version of CivIII complete to get over with all the troubles? :)

@DH: Since you are up here is the quick recap of ideas we have had.

1. Switch Utica to Sheakspear, put it on starvation to finish in 8 turns.
2. Keep moving workers from Rusicade to the main island.
3. Make the best deal you can (think buying used car here) getting Gunpowder and Chivalry from AIs. Gunpowder MUST be bought before we finish researching Economics.
4. When chivalry is available, upgrade horses, sail to Scandinavia, (I wonder if we need to rethink the target if someone else declares a phony war on us)
5. If leader appears, buld an army (knights prefferably), wait for Sheakspears to complete and start heroic epic.
6. Lux trades will expire soon, we could use our WMs to extend those.

@Rest of the guys: please correct me if i was wrong above.

I'd like also to suggest for the slaves who will have nothing else to do until rails - use them to road all the shorelines on our main island.
Personally, I think it's time to make peace with Persia and India, give them 20 turns to recover and hit again.

I have no clue where my PTW disc... Or the original Civ disk for that matter :P But, never fear! The second reinstall worked... And even got it to 1.27 for some reason?

I was going for a skip, but no matter now :) Will have it done tomorrow.. Maybe tonight, but doubt it.

Good to hear that...
You've just saved me $50 worth of CivIII Complete package :)


So it's Tarkeel playing and hopefully team will be back on track, we have had too many delays recently and i am afraid i was the one who started it.

OK, good you got the install to work. Looking forward to your report.

EDIT: Since version is 1.27 I guess it is PTW through the Conquest disc?

OK, no skip, Tarkeel is still up

I expect that Scandinavia have a lot of spare troops, when we land, even though they only have a few cities, expect a number of attacks, that will be good for some elite upgrades, but as there may be nowhere to heal may have to put them back on ships. So keep the ships around.

The next nearest opponent are the celts but don't want to attack them yet, as we wont get any retreats against their MDI.

and also Celts have lots of silks to trade with...

for the possible trading partners i would put Osmans, Babylonians, Greeks and Celts in to the priority list. It is better to have peace with those guys and trade trade trade
The rest of the nations we can use for leader hunting.

When I had a look at the Scandinavians just before my turns they did not have either Iron nor Horses (IIRC). They also have their cities on a couple of islands so not too easy for them to reinforce.

Only got 2 turns done tonight, but will finish tomorrow.

The good news: Persia just got Gunpowder, and is willing to give us that, all their gold and the island city for peace. Going to take it unless there are severe objections (which i doubt) ;)

Only got 2 turns done tonight, but will finish tomorrow.

The good news: Persia just got Gunpowder, and is willing to give us that, all their gold and the island city for peace. Going to take it unless there are severe objections (which i doubt) ;)
Yes I don't mind peace with Persia, they are so weak that they are not providing leader opportunities anymore

Make peace with Persia take that city and donate it to Indians... :) (just kidding)... but seriously, i think we need to make peace with Ghandi as well and let those two poor fellows to recover.

Make peace with Persia take that city and donate it to Indians... :) (just kidding)... but seriously, i think we need to make peace with Ghandi as well and let those two poor fellows to recover.
Maybe we don't want to even take the city, better to get Persia to produce more units. We don't need to weaken them anymore.

Maybe we don't want to even take the city, better to get Persia to produce more units. We don't need to weaken them anymore.


Agreed, we want them to recover as soon as possible :devil2:
hopefully in another 20 turns they will be ready for harvest...
not sure if you guys watch Stargate Atlantis, but right now i feel like a Wraith. :evil:

I only saw the first episode of Stargate: Atlantis, as we don't get cable in our room here. How is it?

I only saw the first episode of Stargate: Atlantis, as we don't get cable in our room here. How is it?

It's pretty good (not as good as the original Stargate though, IMHO), SciFi aired 10 episodes (i think) during the 1st season and next season is due in January.

It's an Island city.. so it won't help us, just them ;) Might give it to India.. keep them alive :P

Great to see you active on the thread DH! No pun intended... Keep talking and this team will really show the community we can do great things in Civ3...

I have bad feelings...
Look at the submissions page...
Offa team is in a lead at 860AD...
I find it difficult to believe they have higher score than Bede team in 1400AD
They must have completed the game and won early conquest or something....

if they have 860 AD conquest win, it will be hard to beat them...
I wonder if Klarius pulled the victory this time again... :confused:

I have bad feelings...
Look at the submissions page...
Offa team is in a lead at 860AD...
I find it difficult to believe they have higher score than Bede team in 1400AD
They must have completed the game and won early conquest or something....

if they have 860 AD conquest win, it will be hard to beat them...
I wonder if Klarius pulled the victory this time again... :confused:
Remember we lost points with our city jumps, they probably didn't do that, and they were behind us in points in 750AD. I think this proves Bede has a very very poor score.

Of course score is fairly meaningless in this game. Now if Offa did win the game in 860AD then we can only offer our congratulations.

Tarkeel, Tarkeel, tap tap tap, Tarkeel???????????/

Got a bit delayed by the Wold Cup qualifiying match tonight ;) Just finished:

(0) 850 AD
Set Utica on Shakespeare and starvation.
Don't find much to MM atm.

IBT
Persia lands a LB at Rusicade.
India lands archer and settler just outside.

(1) 860 AD
Carthage: Horse->Merc
Sabratha: Horse->Merc
4/4 Horse vs 2/4 LB -> 3/4 Horse
4/5 MDI vs 3/3 spear -> 4/5 MDI, burning Chittagong (2g)
4/5 Horse vs 3/3 Archer -> 4/5 horse and 2 slaves
Load MDIs in galleons and sail for Scandinavia

IBT
Persian 4/4 LB vs 4/4 MDI on mountain -> 3/4 LB

(2) 870 AD
Theveste: Horse->Harbor
Persia get Gunpowder
Make peace with Persia: Get gunpowder, Bactra, WM, 41g and 34 gpt (!!)
Sell harbor and abandon Bactra
Make use uf Gunpowder while it's still hot, and trade with Otto:
We get Chivalry, WM and 7g for Gunpowder, spices, Ivory and contact with Persia
We have Saltpeter just north of Carhage

IBT
No less then 4 barb galleys attack 2 of our caravels (one loaded, the other escorting), redlining but promoting both.
Germany start Leo

(3) 880 AD
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 MDI -> 2/3 MDI, retreat
4/4 Horse vs 2/3 MDI -> 2/4 Horse
Upgrade 2 horses for Viking Invasion (tm)

IBT
We lose Dyes.
Barbhut pops next to worker in Persindia.

(4) 890 AD
Carthage: Musket->Knight, MM'ed for 3 turns
4/4 LB vs 2/2 Barb -> 3/4 LB
4/4 Horse vs 2/2 Barb -> 2/4 Horse + gold
Upgrade another horse
Change Theveste to Knight, we need that more atm.
Sabratha needs a lux. It isn't cheap though:
Ottomans: WM for Dyes, WM, 13g, 3gpt. Atleast he can't trade it around
(Was thinking of giving Germany Chivalry or Gunpowder to help them survive, but he's probably gassed)

IBT
Incense with Babylon run out. Spices will get us Wool, 7g and WM

(5) 900 AD
Sabratha: Musket->Knight (4th corruption kicks in at just the worst point, giving it 4 turns knights)
Take Utica of starvation.
Upgrade 1 knight

(6) 910 AD
Economics comes in. Start Chemistry, due in 7 @ 70% (+24) or 6 @ 60% (-4).
Will go for 80% and prune our military some ;)
Rusicade: Knight->Musket
Declare on Scandinavia, D-Day is here! Land in the hills SE-SE of Nidaros with 3 Knights, 4 horses, 1 MDI and 1 Merc. LAnd 3 MDI at Stockholm

(7) 920 AD
Carthage: Knight->Knight
Theveste: Knight->Caravel
4/4 Knight vs 4/4 Spear -> 2/4 Spear, retreat
4/4 Knight vs 2/4 Spear -> 3/5 Knight
4/4 Horse vs 4/4 Archer -> 3/5 Archer
4/4 Horse vs 4/4 Archer -> 4/4 Horse
5/5* MDI vs 4/4 Spear -> 1/5 MDI
4/4 MDI vs 3/3 Spear -> 2/4 MDI, Taking stockholm (2g). We take it, Sell harbor and barracks for 15 and sack.
Disband some warriors at home, to ease the economy. We could use some barbs in that area :P
NB: Units cots us 2 GP pr turn

IBT
Babylon burns Bjoergvin

(8) 930 AD
Utica: Shakespeare->Bank (PH), set for growth.
4/4 Knight vs 3/3 Spear -> 3/3 Spear, retreat
3/5 Knight vs 3/3 Spear -> 3/5 Knight
4/4 Horse vs 4/4 Spear -> 4/4 Spear
4/4 Horse vs 4/4 Spear -> 4/4 Spear, Retreat
4/4 Horse vs 4/4 Spear -> 3/4 Spear, Retreat

IBT
Osman demands Education. He doesn't want to be next though, and backs down.

(9) 940 AD

Rusicade: Musket->Caravel
Could sell Invention to Celts, but they should be next target.
3/5 Knight vs 3/3 Spear -> 2/5 Knight and 2 slaves
4/4 Knight vs 4/4 Spear -> 3/4 Knight

IBT
Finally! India sends out 2 units... Pikes. But better then nothing.

(10) 950 AD
Carthage: knight -> Knight
Theveste: Caravel -> Harbor
5/5 Horse vs 3/3 Pike -> 3/5 Horse
5/5 MDI vs 3/3 pike -> 5/5 MDI
3/4 Knight vs 4/4 Spear -> 3/4 spear, retreat

There are still some unused forces at Nidaros, and some healing at the Celtic border. Use at will :)
Might want to make peace with India.. probably another 10 turns for them to make units (Lahore is built on Iron)

Culture at 5100, 80 pr turn. No leaders :(
Jason: 791
Firaxis: 597

Ok, now I'm worried.. our 950 save is ranked behind Offa's 860.. Which means they either score a bunch of points, or got an early win.

Ok, now I'm worried.. our 950 save is ranked behind Offa's 860.. Which means they either score a bunch of points, or got an early win.

They post date is what also made me worried... it's not a 10th turn....
Have we lost a chance for golden laurel already? :confused:

EDIT: Looks like a good set of turns, although with no leaders...
DH is next and i hope he is luckier.

It's an 11th turn.. And people often take one extra.

Not a bad set, but India didn't really give us much fodder... And Babylon is chewing up the Vikings, bad, so we should kick the Celts. I've left one elite knight, so kill as much as possible with that :)

If they had finished, their end score would have been up, look at SGOTM3 and that is what it displays when you have finished. We lost points when we jumped cities, but points don't matter in this game.

smackster

I looked at the save, and everything looks good. Its going to be tough going getting leaders but we just have to keep going, fighting the Celts now seems like the only option. I thought Scaninavia would have something to fight with, but didn't realise they were fighting Babylon. Hopefully the Celts have not fought and will have something for us to fight.

As for Utica, what is the reason for building it for growth, are you thinking that Shakespears allows it to grow to size 13, because I think that is Conquests and not in PTW. I think we should just continue to maximise shields for the next wonder, don't even build the Bank.

smackster

Roster

Wotan (on deck)
Dman
Tarkeel (just played)
smackster
DeceasedHorse (up now)

Agreed, Utica should hold off on bank
we should maximize production in Utica switch to Smith's, but when Newtons is researched switch to Newtons (more culture and newtons is cheaper).

We can sell either education or lux available to Babs for 4GPT
Indians will make peace and give us all their gold and 8GPT...
I think we should make both deals and probably, yes, attack Celts...

My prediction Babs and Osmans are going to be trading giants in this game and we should take all their money later... Greeks might also become big, but we will have to see how it goes.

Please, lets expedite transfer of slaves to the main island, we will need them SOON!!!!!!!
I'd like to have those shores roaded on the main island before rails, we will have to deal with AI settlers quite soon.
Plus, we want to rail every tile around Utica in the least possible set of turns, plus we will need whole bunch of slaves for polution clean-ups...
Factories will be here faster than we think, we have quite good research rate.

EDIT: Vikings will give us all their gold and 12GPT for a peace... I think we should do it... We don't have enough forces to attack their capital and i would rather take their money now, heal the troops on Celt's border and then bug Celts a little.

MORE EDIT: in general, we should keep checking every AI every single turn and look for trading possibilities.

MORE MORE EDITS: do not sell AIs astronomy until we have protected our lux colonies by putting the slaves along the shores. (we don't want AIs we are currently in GPT deals with to land on top of our colonies... we will have to either break our rep or lose resourses for turns to come.)

EDIT: Vikings will give us all their gold and 12GPT for a peace... I think we should do it... We don't have enough forces to attack their capital and i would rather take their money now, heal the troops on Celt's border and then bug Celts a little.

I was thinking that too, not much point in destroying Scandy, I thought they would have more spare troops. Lets concentrate for a fight with Celts, lets hope they have something worth fighting.

Offa team - if in next 3 or 4 days their date does not change it will clearly indicate they have finished the game and won both Laurels...

Nobody will beat 860AD Conquest (best jason date for conquest in GOTM 28 - 1200AD - go figure)
Plus, with 5CC nobody will be able to milk game to beat their score for the early finish...
Let's wait until sunday if we are toasted or what....

I think you are right that they may well have finished, I was thinking that the final result would come up but the cut off date clearly applies to that as well. 850AD is a pretty impressive Conquest date with only 5 cities, although the AI does appear to be very weak. We should not worry and get our best date regardless, winning is not everything in this.

DeceasedHorse is up, hopefully soon he's going to be waking up over on the West coast (I never got up before 9 when at college, then again I do that now?), and checking in with his "I got it".

smackster

Strange, We haven't heard Wotan's comments on the current turnset...

@Wotan: Are you okay over there or are you having a snow day or something?

Been to Reykjavik for three days, came home a couple of hours ago. Have had access to internet sporadically so my level of communications have been so-so. As you have noticed. ;)

Just a short comment on the current situation: Leaders!!!!! Where are they. :(
The game is not so much a question of "brilliant strategies" needed now, just going through the motions in as fast a time as possible.

A couple of minor comments re MMing ;) Can't help myself... Rusicade, move two citizens from hills to grassland and plains, we gain 4 fpt and will still finish the caravel in two turns. Research, way to high a setting, we can lower science by 20% and still finish in 2 turns at +60 something gpt. Utica??? I am also questioning the effects of ST. I am sure only benefit in PTW is 8 citizens hmade content/happy. So lets have it produce another GW.

I am taking the day off tomorrow so if DH plays tonight I can take the game tomorrow.

Re. Offa team, I am sure the game could have been won by conquest in 860 at least if the AI was as weak in their game as in our game. Maybe we went for the wrong VC again. :(

well, let's make sure we finish 2nd in this time again, so we can argue for the new "Always the second" Laurel... :)

Been to Reykjavik for three days, came home a couple of hours ago. Have had access to internet sporadically so my level of communications have been so-so. As you have noticed. ;)

Ahh Reykjavik, one of my most favourite places to visit. Oh to be in Cafe Reykjavik, at midnight in the summer with the sun still shining. Actually I always went in the winter, but still a great place to go.


Re. Offa team, I am sure the game could have been won by conquest in 860 at least if the AI was as weak in their game as in our game. Maybe we went for the wrong VC again. :(
I don't think we could have known the AI would be so weak, even though we've played this map before. Still, I'm enjoying this 20k game more than another conquest.
Leaders will come if we keep getting the elite wins, I wish we could gift the AI some troops for us to farm off.

Reason for putting Utica on growth was so that it could go on starvation again if needed.

Talking about starvation....

I've come up with a new controversial starvation technique and tried it yesterday
It requires lots of sacrificial slaves, which we can deliver much easier than we can leaders.
We all know that it doesn’t matter how little food city has, it won’t starve more than 1 citizen at a time.
What we should do is to place all citizens in Utica on top of shield producing squares only (mountains and hills), it will give us huge boost in shields, but it will starve a citizen. Next turn we simply add a citizen from slave pool to Utica and starve it again, and then again and then again…

This way Utica will be always to produce maximum possible shields at a time but we will have to sacrifice one citizen each turn, which is probably okay if we have steady addition of new slaves from razed cities.

This technique will allow us to build wonders (or any building for that matter) much, much faster so I’ve decided to throw this crazy idea.
If we can’t get leaders, we can at least get lots of slaves.

Works for me, maximising shield output on Utica is the only other thing we can do.

Note that we wont have to do it every turn, there will always be turns where we can't shave anymore turns of getting the new wonder, so we'll be able to get some "free" food again.

Time for somebody to calculate how many workers we need to rail the land round Utica. How many workers do we have now?

Who's writing the spoiler.

Where is DeceasedHorse, that student party must have gone on late. 24 hours now, since Tarkeel's turns.

For Wotan if you wake up and no "I got it" from DH, then take it.

smackster

Wotan is probably to best to do rail road slaves calculations...
Personally, i'd like to be able to rail mountain square in no more than 2 turns, and as many squares as possible at a time.

I got it, a bit busy ATM, but I will post a to-do list before I get started.

-Sell tech or lux to the Babs
-Make peace with the Vikings
-Attack the Celts, fish for some more leaders
-Adjust research sliders
-MM Rusicade
-continue transporting workers back home, investigate possiblity of "Dogpiling" Utica in order to pump up shield output temporarily.
-Build Newton's in Utica.

Questions: What should I do in regards to India? How many workers should I *definitely* keep around in order to get us railed up ASAP + establish a blockade on our home continent?

I will be playing tonight.

I can't speak for the others, but i'd say we should keep peace with India until it expires and then hopefully indian cities will grow a little bit for another slave harvest.
Don't dogpile workers into the Utica until you have all of our colonies safeguarded, keeping lux colonies intact is a priority.

9 workers to build a road on a mountain, and railroad is double cost (assuming we have Coal) so think 18 workers for rails on mountain in one turn. We have 40 workers.

Hold the dropping workers plan in Utica until after we have railroad.

For India, don't declare peace with them until we at least can fight Persia again, however don't fight Persia if they are going to give us so much cash. We have two elites on that continent. Ideally we want to setup easy wins for them both. Not sure if India is going to send anything out to us though.

Just had a thought lets say we capture Lahore, don't abandon it, give it to the Persians. So that we have another target to attack later.

I apologize, but I am going to need a skip. Something came up at the last minute.

9 workers to build a road on a mountain, and railroad is double cost (assuming we have Coal) so think 18 workers for rails on mountain in one turn. We have 40 workers.

Hold the dropping workers plan in Utica until after we have railroad.

For India, don't declare peace with them until we at least can fight Persia again, however don't fight Persia if they are going to give us so much cash. We have two elites on that continent. Ideally we want to setup easy wins for them both. Not sure if India is going to send anything out to us though.

Just had a thought lets say we capture Lahore, don't abandon it, give it to the Persians. So that we have another target to attack later.
Agree, and I've got it! Will play today.

Turn log

0 – 950AD
Some MMing, we now gain 73 gpt. Peace with Scandinavia, we took their gold and get another 11 gpt. Switch Utica to Smiths.

1 – 960AD
Moving units in position to attack Celts. Upgrade a Horseman.

2 – 970AD
Chemistry researched, Physics in 6 turns. Rusicade builds Caravel, Colosseum started. 1 Elite upgrade.

3 – 980AD
Carthage builds Knight, Knight started. Traded Chemistry to Ottomans for 55 gold, 18 gpt and gems, for 18 gpt to Barbylonians and to Greece for 60 gold and 2 gpt. 2 Elite attacks.

4 – 990AD
Education to Greece for 20 gold and 5 gpt (researched by babylonians/Ottomans this turn). DoW Celts. 2 Elite attack, 1 Veteran promoted to Elite, 1 killed.

5 – 1000AD
Leader created, forms an Army in Lahore, decide to abandon it since it is built on Iron and Persia is about to send another Settler from Karachi. Another appears in Celtic lands. 6 elite attacks, 2 killed.

IBT: Babylonians finish Leo’s.

6 – 1010AD
Catharge builds Knight, Knight started. Our Army kills an Indian Spearman and we can switch to Heroic Epic in Utica. Peace with India. Traded Wool to Babylon for 9 gpt and to Greece for 8 gpt. Barb. Camp dispersed.

7 – 1020AD
Physics researched, ToG started ready in 5 turns. A few attacks to try to get more Elites, Barb.Camp dispersed.

8 – 1030AD
Rusicade builds Colosseum, Knight started. Raised Celt city (forgot to check name).

9 – 1040AD
Catharge builds Knight, Knight started. Utica builds Heroic Epic, Smiths started. 2 Elite attacks.

10 – 1050AD
Utica builds Smiths, Bank started as a pre build for Newtons. Theveste builds Harbour, Colosseum started. 1 Elite attack.

After action report:
A Worker on top of a Silk could be a colony if we want it to form one. I have not made an attack on Entremont. Two MDI elites are en route there and since the attack was not urgent I will let Dman (and the team) decide on when the attack is to be launched. ToG in 2 turns. Have moved forces north towards Karachi in preparation for next Persian war. No trades in the final turn, Dman and team decide if we want Greece, Babylonian and Ottoman gold for Banking?

Next tech: Magnetism and with a bit of luck we can trade for Metallury.

Firaxis: 623
Culture: 5927 (89/turn)
2 leaders, 13 Elite attacks(could be 16 since I have conflicting notes…)

Edit: Off to a wedding now so will be offline until I am back (slightly intoxicated :D ) late tonight or tomorrow morning. Good luck Dman!

Firaxis: 623
Culture: 5927 (89/turn)
2 leaders, 13 Elite attacks(could be 16 since I have conflicting notes…)

2 Leaders? Is that a typo. Anyway that is that good number of elite wins and with HE we should start to see even more leaders I hope

[party] :band: :thumbsup:
Very impressive...
I was always wondering how good wotan was at pulling those leaders for us...

@Smackster: I think he indeed had 2 leaders. One to build an army and second he used to rush Smith's in Utica.


@Team: I will be playing tonight after kid goes to bed... I spent 11 hours non stop playing GOTM36 yesterday (one of those civ3 moments, you know). and i am extremely pissed of at one particular AI who is also present in this game,
i need a revenge!!!!! :mad:
(hope it is not too much of a spoiler information)

I haven't opened save yet and don't have time to do it... Duties are calling to take kid to the playground and do everything possible to stay away from his mom's sight for the day. (she has some tests to be prepared for on Monday)
So please post all the suggestions between now and about 8 to 10 hours from now. Consider this my "I got it" message.

:)


EDIT: I think we should sell Banking if they give us some money, it will make AIs rich and i love playing Robin Hood :devil2:

I am about to start my game, i can see Smackster is online, will wait a little bit, if he has any suggestions for my turn set...

Playing for revenge from a recent game is not our best tactic right, although I know you were joking.

Not sure if I got to you in time, but don't miss any of the the sleeping units. We should certainly send a Caravel with something to cut the Celts iron, that should be our standard tactic, without iron they will build more, weaker units for us. There are a couple of sleeping Caravels.

For the entremont attack, you might just as well wait for the elites to get in position. Normally I would only attack the elites against regular or damaged defenders, so that a vet Knight should attack that vet pike on top.

Ok,
i've got your message...

and here is my plan:

I will definetely wait for the elites to arrive near Celts capital...
I certainly can cut Celts iron, but then again they only have 3 cities left...
How many cities do we want to leave them? I assume we don't want to eliminate them completely.
So I am just going to take over the capital, raze it and send slaves home; cut Iron and wait for Brennus to send some fresh meat our way using a slave or two as a bait.

In two turns i will declare on Persia, take Karachi and a small 1 pop city near by and again just wait on Xerxes to send something our way for leader hunting.

I will send more slaves from Rusicade to the main land. I am going to use some of them to protect colonies. Our city near old Rome location (keep forgetting it's name) will expand soon, so hopefuly we won't need to many workers to border shores.

Will check on AIs every turns for trading possibilities, I will sell banking in next couple of turns, i'd like wait a little hoping AIs will get more money to pay.


P.S.
Playing for revenge from a recent game is not our best tactic right, although I know you were joking.

I have had my revenge already in that recent game :devil2:

Hi guys, (Smackster/Dman you are online now)
I am back home now (just past 3am) and going to bed but... yes 2 leaders... In the same turn, but I did lauch 6 elite attacks in a single turn! And considering we had no leaders in the past 40+ turns, 2 leaders from 16 attacks is just pay back! I made a single attack in my last turn vs. a celt archer wo any leader appearing, a real disappointment!!!

Dman, I have managed to increase the number of elites, use them!!! ;)

Ok,

I certainly can cut Celts iron, but then again they only have 3 cities left...
How many cities do we want to leave them? I assume we don't want to eliminate them completely.
So I am just going to take over the capital, raze it and send slaves home; cut Iron and wait for Brennus to send some fresh meat our way using a slave or two as a bait.

In two turns i will declare on Persia, take Karachi and a small 1 pop city near by and again just wait on Xerxes to send something our way for leader hunting.

As a general rule from now, just cut any iron we see, while at war with whoever owns it. We should certainly leave them a city or two, looks like we can get 10+GPT from any civ with just one city, and that is worth keeping them for.

[party] :band: :thumbsup:
Very impressive...
I was always wondering how good wotan was at pulling those leaders for us...

I haven't delivered any for the past two stints... I guess the law of averages just "paid back" the outstanding debt we had coming... ;) My experience is that leaders have a tendency to appear when you least expect them to or when you least need them :( I usually get them in the mid game, no leaders during AA, and a lot during IA. OTOH, in 20K games one tend to show a lot more attention to elites and the way you use them.

I think i have had somewhat successful set of turns (i have had a leader after all ;) ), well, not sure if i did a good job on last minute trading though....

So here we go:

Pre-turn...

Checked the troops; sent workers to guard Ivory Coast and few more down to the wool coast.

T1. 1060AD. Sabratha: knight->knight. ToG in 1 turn; Persian settler pair is heading towards their horse colony.

IBT: Xerxes founds new town of Ergili on top of the horses.

T2. 1070AD. Carthage: knight->knight; we have some barbs to disperse; Rusicade knight->caravel.
Knight attacks barbarian and is promoted to elite but there is another barb in a hut. I will use another knight next turn.
ToG is discovered; Magnetism in 5 turns 100% science slider. Switching Utica to Newton’s

I was checking the trades previous two turns and it looks it is the best time to trade banking now:
So here we go: Greeks 20Gpt and 6Gold (he is furious for some reasons); Babylonians 11Gpt and 60Gold (also furious); Osman 7Gpt and 20Gold... (Also furious). Sold PP to Germans for 13Gold. (Oh my, he is furious too). The rest are broke....
Our treasury 196Gold +16GPt and 100% science.

IBT Xerxes asks for the peace treaty; tell him no way, we are officially at war.

T3. 1080AD. Persian pike leaves Karachi and I decided to ask what his business was.
Vet horse attack that pike and dies. Pike redlined. Elite horse attacks and Himilco rises... We've got another leader!!!
Switching Utica back to bank.
Have a terrible RNG luck attacking Karachi...
Knight attacks reg pike, retreats
Knight attacks 2hp pike, retreats
Horse attacks dies
Horse attacks dies
Finally army attacks kills that pike, Karachi is razed.
I will wait on attacking Celts until we have our leader delivered to Utica and used on Newton’s.

IBT:
Persian longbow attacks our MDI and dies. Vikings founded new city of Goteburg on top of the silks.

T4. 1090AD
Hamadan is razed; Argii is razed; Knight takes care of barb hut.

T5. 1100AD
Extend luxuries trade agreement with Hammurabi
Loose another knight attacking spear in Persian settler pair; but next horse kills spear, 2 more slaves
Our sabotage platoon lands from caravel on top of Celts iron and will cut it next turn.
Upgraded horse in Rusicade.

IBT Celts longbow attacks our stack and dies. Persian long bow shows up

T6. 1110 AD
All cities completed builds (except Utica), switched them to knights
Knight attacks Persian longbow -> promoted to elite. Rushed bank in Utica, leader will be there next turn to rush Newton’s.

More trades, this time I am selling democracy.

Greeks whopping 46Gpt and 91 gold;
Babylon 7Gpt and 38gold

IBT: Talking about bad RNG... Persian galley attacks and sinks our Caravel... fortunately, it was empty

T7. 1120 AD. Newton’s is rushed...
Upgraded horse in Rusicade.

Entremont siege is started;
We lost only 2 horses; 4 elite attacks with no leader appeared.
Entremont is razed;
Celts have 2 cities left on their main island and up way up north on a small island.
Babylon will give 15gpt for economics, but the rest of our main trading partners (Osman and Alex) are broke, so I will postpone trade.

T8. 1130AD. Utica has completed Newton’s... I shifted Utica to maximize food and gold and switched it to palace pre-build
Right now it produces only 12shields per turn and palace will be ready in 25 turns...
I really want to use it as a factory pre-build; I expect we will have industrialization in less than 25 turns.
(My guess estimate -Metallurgy 5turns, plus Steam power and Industrialization 8 to 10 turns each, total 25 turns top)
We should monitor Utica carefully and make sure it doesn't finish palace on its own, at the same time making sure we are as close to the factory pre-build as it gets. We can not use any leaders from now until US anyways... so any leader we get will have to be stockpiled for future use... I see no sense using leaders for armies.
Babylon will give 22gpt for economics, but Greeks and Osman are still broke... I don't want to sell it now just to Babs, I will wait one more turn.
Oh, there is something I’ve just noticed. Babylonians will give only 13Gpt for Astronomy... Khmm... They must have been researching it since they give so much less money for the tech... Should I sell it now???? :confused: ok, i will wait another turn...

Sending Celtic slaves back to the home land.
Size of Persepolis is decreased this turn, they must have built another settler, lets hope so... we need more slaves.
Oh, I sank that Persian galley...
Celts will talk peace and would give us one city... I'd say we wait until next person plays, and then when we take that city, gift it to Germans. Poor Bismarck is too small to be useful at the moment.

T9: 1140AD. I was right and Xerxes sends a settler pair. Another elite win and again with no leader. 2 more slaves we have.
And Babylonians are researching astronomy indeed. Price for the tech dropped again... I am not sure how you feel about it but Hammurabi is not getting a free tech... I am selling him Astronomy for 11gpt and all little cash he had, plus he bought Ivory for 14gpt...
I bet Alex is at war with Osman, and that is why those 2 guys are so cheap. I was so curious, I built embassy with osmans... no they are not at war... strange...
I don't want to do any deals with Vikings, we need to let them grow and then declare on them after making peace with Celts.

Upgraded 2 caravels

T10. 1150AD.

Moved slave caravels across ocean toward Utica, did nothing else...
Some units are fortified, but it should not be difficult to find them.

6 or 7 elite wins - one leader... I got few more elites though and that should help next person, too bad not many enemies left.
we will have metallurgy competed in i believe 3 turns and then we should switch to Steam Power full speed. No need researching MT ourselves in this game.

Utica 6835 points 95CPT Estimated win date 1768AD according to Civassist.

Post play comments:

Since we have nothing else to build I think we should continue building an excessive number of Knights, some of them will be upgraded to cavalry later and some of them we should disband to rush factories… In Utica we should also build a coal plant.

Only 20 turns ago we were screaming for leaders but we have had 3 since and it looks like we won’t really need them in next 20 turns until Universal suffrage, so hopefully this is long enough time to get one even with bad RNG luck.
If we don’t get a leader it still would probably be faster to build factory and coal plant and then start Un. Suff. from scratch rather than using existing pre-build. (I could be wrong, but that is what my past experience tells). Please monitor Utica and make sure it doesn’t switch the tiles and builds a palace. Actually when we know how much Steam power will take to research we should be able to correct Utica worked squares accordingly.

I haven’t posted the map, there is nothing really to see but ruins. :D
One thing different you will see is that I lined up workers to safe guard our shores.
Babylonians have astronomy and they will want to land on free space on our island anytime now. Rest of the gang doesn’t have this tech, but I guess they will have it at any time also…

We should discuss this but I suggest NEVER MOVE those slaves even for the railroading… (And if you move then replace empty spots with another units). As soon as we open the shore tile someone will land and we will be in a pretty bad situation.
Osman will actually buy astronomy, he doesn’t have much money but he will pay with Dyes and some small amount of cash. So it's something to think about for the next player.

I recommend do not make any deals with Vikings, but rather declare war on them when peace agreement is over…

Thats all folks! :beer:

Oh right, the save - there we go (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm4/Smackster_SG004_AD1150_01.SAV)

Well played! So now we enter a period of "phony war" again with no urgent need for Leader farming, when and if we get one he will just have to wait for Universal Suffrage to become available.

I believe we should expedite our game a little. (well, actually i didn't mean to say expedite but rather play it "smackster style" we did in SGOTM3 and early in this game :mischief: )

We still have 100-150 turns to play, that means 10-15 turnsets, if we keep playing 2 turnsets a week it will take almost until Christmas to finish this game.

EDIT: It looks like team Bede has finished the game with most likely 20K cultural win...(info taken from maintenance forum). Their finish date is 1780, which we have already beaten (I hope CivAssist properly works 20K victory dates)

I believe we should expedite our game a little. (well, actually i didn't mean to say expedite but rather play it "smackster style" we did in SGOTM3 and early in this game :mischief: )

We still have 100-150 turns to play, that means 10-15 turnsets, if we keep playing 2 turnsets a week it will take almost until Christmas to finish this game.

EDIT: It looks like team Bede has finished the game with most likely 20K cultural win...(info taken from maintenance forum). Their finish date is 1780, which we have already beaten (I hope CivAssist properly works 20K victory dates)
I think its right, it matches what AlanH's spreadsheet comes up with.
Just as a reminder here at the best dates, so we are right there already on the best 20k date. That 860AD conquest (assuming that's what it is, is 24 turns prior, so we need to get it in about 1675AD).

Conquest 1200AD
Cultural 20k 1760AD
Cultural 100k 1555AD
Diplomatic 1010AD
Domination 970AD
Space Race 1330AD

Now for the bad news if I used the spreadsheet calculator and add wonders I find that I can only make the end date move by a couple of turns each wonder, if we got ToE, and Newtons in the next 20 turns, the date only gets to 1758AD.

That's the thing with 20K games... It doesn't matter how many wonder's you build in Industrial and Modern ages. Only ancient wonders really matter, had we luck getting more leaders and squeezing pyramids and collosus to what we have, we would be in a whole lot better shape. But honestly we are having a great game and i think we are in a good shape for second place.

I doubt any team managed to do AA better than us at least according to the spoilers posted. And we had simply superior MA with all the wonders build except Leo with only 2CPT as early as it was possible.

We haven't heard "I got it" message from Tarkeel. I hope he can play tomorrow. We need to get this baby going.



Now for the bad news if I used the spreadsheet calculator and add wonders I find that I can only make the end date move by a couple of turns each wonder, if we got ToE, and Newtons in the next 20 turns, the date only gets to 1758AD.

Hey, we do have Newtons built already. Did you mean Universal Suffrage??


Here is the list of culture generating buildings of IA:

Great Wonders:
1. Universal suffrage 4CPT
2. Theory of Evolution 3CPT
3. Hoover Dam 3CPT

Small Wonders
1. Wall Street (requires 5 stock exchanges) 2CPT
2. Battlefield Medicine (requires 5 hospitals) 1CPT

Wow no posts, I'll play it tomorrow, unless Tarkeel appears.

smackster

Forums were down for me yesterday.

Have 7 pages left of a 10 page essay due on wednesday, so will need yet another swap...

Forums were down for me yesterday.

Have 7 pages left of a 10 page essay due on wednesday, so will need yet another swap...

Forums... essay... how boring... and i was pretty sure Tarkeel found new girlfriend who doesn't leave him any civ. time :mischief:

OK I have it and will play tonight

I'm working too tonight, still watching the baseball, but can't play civ. I can only hope that I can play tomorrow, but will do my best.

smackster

T0 1150AD

My first thought is that we don't have enough people to fight, and we have too many GPT deals. It may be time to break one of them. Babylon, Greece, and Ottomans are paying us so much cash though, but they must have some pickings for us

Send troops to both Celts and Scandy.

IBT
Scandy ask us to move, which we do, and they want to reneg peace, which we deny, war.

T1 1160AD

Elite Knight attacks Camulodumum and wins (1). Elite horse does the same but dies, leaving the last defender 2/3 spear. Will send the boys to Lugdumum

Elite Knight attacks Goteborg and wins (2), but takes the city

Utica is one food away from growth, so I turn up the shields

IBT Persia drop off a longbow, nice.

T2 1170AD
Elite kills the Persian lb (3)

Elite Knight attacks Scandy city wins (4) and takes that one too, Scandy are too weak. Will have to attack Babylon. Red Sox come back from 3-0 down to beat the Yankees for the first time in ages. World Series here we come.

No point sending the horses into the Babylon Muskets, so need to send them home to upgrade them. Why are they even here?

T3 1180AD

WW is kicking in somewhere, as we have lots of it, but don't really know who its from

Metalargy comes in, but its 8 turns to steam at 100%

Move troops to form the rape of Babylon, might as well make this one good, so will get a ROP as well.

T4 1190AD
Two elite attacks Nidaros, one retreat and one loss without a single point of damage on the pike defender

Elite Knight attacks Perseopolis looking for leader and finds one [5], Hasdrubal rises

Ottomans arrive on the Celtic continent, with a settler.

With the leader around, we send in the vets. Attacking Nidaros, we get one win and one retreat, but show there is at least two spear defenders left

T5 1200AD
Two elites go into Lugdunum, and all die, oh yes. Why why why did they attack. We have a leader. Logic defeats me. Too late.

Its 1.30am, time to stop. We have deals with all, time to break rep, so a good time to get the team feelings on this. Do we ROP rape Babylon.

Do we gift the AI into the IA to help us research, that is what I would do, riflemen, spiflemen

Red Sox come back from 3-0 down to beat the Yankees for the first time in ages. World Series here we come.
This was obviously totally unexpected, ;), it even made the news here in Sweden. First time since 1914 or something equally ancient???

Elite Knight attacks Perseopolis looking for leader and finds one [5], Hasdrubal rises
Yes!!! Now we do not need to go leaderhunting until we have built the Universal Suffrage.


Two elites go into Lugdunum, and all die, oh yes. Why why why did they attack. We have a leader. Logic defeats me. Too late.
I guess we have all made this type of thing, they are not to be kept from battles but one is not so happy when they die attacking soft targets...

Its 1.30am, time to stop. We have deals with all, time to break rep, so a good time to get the team feelings on this. Do we ROP rape Babylon.

Do we gift the AI into the IA to help us research, that is what I would do, riflemen, spiflemen
ROP? I would actually prefer to have knowledge of Coal and a secured source before thrashing our rep.
The thing with gifting them into IA is that they will then have riflemen instead of muskets/spearmen so it is all a question of whether we want to fight rifles in a "few" turns or not? The AI is so poor at researching in this game I doubt we will have any help from them.

I don't want to break our reputation...
from now until the end of the game we don't really need to do much of a warmongering... too few GW to build...
From now on the more GPTs we have the better, all we need to do is to be just one or two techs in front of AIs and keep selling them all we can.
If we break our trade rep we won't be able to do maximum research.
At this point, We must milk AIs not weaken them.
Next time we would need leader when we need to build Hoovers in quite a long time from now and I think if we leave Persia and India they will grow for another leader harvest.
Lets leave alone Babs, Osman and Greeks, they should be dedicated cash cows.
We probably don't even need a leader for ToE, that wonder is so cheap when you have factory and plant and will be probably prebuilt just as fine)
I say we should quit warmongering and just do a little of science rush.
After all, leader hunting was the only reason for us to go to war.

@Smackster, I believe, We have had horses on Scandinavian land for quite some time, since the times we haven't had knights yet...

Yes it was late last night, so my brain was not working too well. Clealry we don't need to fight anybody while we have a leader. But once we have built the next wonder, then we should get right back into it and go for Babylon. By that time the deals may be expiring, so may be able to attack them without ruining rep. For the record, if we trash our rep, they will still give us GPT for our tech.

We are getting enough cash from the Greece/Ottomans to keep research at 100%.

The only way to improve our date is to keep getting those leaders, I think I was lucky to get one this time, as there are so few targets

This was obviously totally unexpected, ;), it even made the news here in Sweden. First time since 1914 or something equally ancient???

It was a best of 7 series and they were 3 down, and won it 4-3, that feat had not been done in Baseball before. However, this was actually only the semi-final they have the final (world series, yea I know its not really a world competition) to play now starting this weekend. Its the world series they have not won since 1918, so they have not really done anything yet, but I still have a hangover.

Its a big thing over here in Boston and is all anyone is talking about now.

For the record, if we trash our rep, they will still give us GPT for our tech.

Yes, you are correct, forgot about that


We are getting enough cash from the Greece/Ottomans to keep research at 100%.


We do right now, but IA techs are whole lot more expensive and Greece/Ottomans cash may not be enough, plus we will want to rush those hospitals/stock exchanges (and even factories too) for Utica to be able to build corresponding small wonders... We will have to have a lot of surplus cash.

Let's see how situation will look when we need to do another leader hunting,
lets leave persia and india alone now and hopefully they will grow a little.
I really think we will be crippling ourselves if we weaken any of the remaining AIs we haven't touched yet.

T6 1210AD cont
Notice a Celtic city on a Babylon Island, with some knights en route will take it, and gift it to Babylon

We have no deals with Germany, they can only give us 2 GPT for stuff, so I'll line up for attacks on them. Will send a few Caravels that way, they only have two cities but its enough

In that case we do get another deal with Babylon, selling Economics for 21 GPT + 34 Gold. From Ottomans, the same for Gems +16GPT + 50 Gold.

T7 1220AD

We keep a wool deal with Babylon, and lose one with Greece.

Knights land on the Babylon island next to a Celtic city, defended by spearman

T8 1230AD

Attack the Celts Verulium, and take it, and gift it to Babylon, just looking for elite upgrades

T9 1240AD

Find a single tile gap near Germany and dump some Knights there. Will bring the elites over there.

T10 1250AD

Building a Frigate in Theveste to protect our open land at home, this can be changed.

There are some horses that can be upgraded, don't really need them yet and we may want to keep the cash.

India have built another city now, but they are still too weak really, might as well let them keep building until we have rushed our next wonder.

In Utica the palace will finish in 6 turns, Steam Power in 1, so I guess we'll have to starve the shields while we await Industrialisation.
There are a few stacks of workers outside Utica ready to road, lets hope we have the coal

T8 1230AD

Attack the Celts Verulium, and take it, and gift it to Babylon, just looking for elite upgrades

---------------------------------------------------

Note this turn from my log, I took that Celtic city and gave it to somebody else. There would have been little point in razing it. Giving Babylon more cities, means they have more cash to give to us.

When we took those Persian and Indian cities, we should have gifted them to the one we were not at war with if appropriate.

Sorry no picture, but there isn't much to show that is new.

Tarkeel is up again now

DeceasedHorse on deck

Good timing.. Haven't had time to look at the boards before now :) Too knackered to play tonight, but will have time tomorrow.

Looks like team Tao has finished the game in 1745AD. I think it would be fair to say they have had 20K victory...
Are we going to be able to beat that date?

I think we can beat that, but need more leaders.

Tarkeel, where is Tarkeel????????????/

(0) 1250 AD
Move Rusicade to use the rocsk on coast.. This is a 2-1-4 square, so use it!
4/4 Knight vs 4/4 Spear -> 2/4 spear, retreat
4/4 Knight vs 2/4 Spear -> 4/4 Knight and 2 slaves.

IBT
Babylon makes landfall!!
A pike and settler SE of Sabratha.
It's far away from our luxes, but they have to die in 15 turns when deals expire.


(1) 1255 AD
Steam power comes in. Industrialization will take 8 turns at 100% science. Ouch
We have 2 coal, and Sabratha is one square south from IronWorks
Sabratha: Knight->Knight
Rusicade: Knight->Knight
Twek Utica to have prebuild last longer.
4/4 Knight vs 4/4 LB -> 4/4 Knight
Upgrade 3 horses

(2) 1260 AD
Carthage: Knight->Knight
Theveste: Frigate->Knight

IBT
A persian archer takes our workerbait.

(3) 1265 AD
4/4 Knight vs 4/4 Archer -> 2/4 Knight

(4) 1270 AD
Not much

IBT
Persian LB lands at Rusicade
Incense expires. The deal is with Babylon, so I let it go.
Lagash founded on our land.

(5) 1275 AD
Carthage: Knight->Knight
Rusicade: Knight->Knight
4/4 Knight vs 4/4 LB -> 4/4 Knight
Railing at Rusicade finished.

Culture: 8260/95 pr turn
4 turns on prebuild and research. Rail crews are at work.
Any reason why we haven't gifted the rest of the world up? We want them to research for us..
Will let the next person do it, incase there is a good reason not to.
All I have time for is these 5 I'm afraid..
Firaxis score: 687
Jason score: 910

Culture: 8260/95 pr turn
4 turns on prebuild and research. Rail crews are at work.
Any reason why we haven't gifted the rest of the world up? We want them to research for us..
Will let the next person do it, incase there is a good reason not to.
All I have time for is these 5 I'm afraid..
Firaxis score: 687
Jason score: 910
We only slightly discussed gifting the AI up. I think we should certainly gift them to the other research paths that we are not working on

DeceasedHorse is up. Play 15 if you have time, I'd like to get us back on the 10 turn boundary.

smackster

As soon as AIs are in IA they will research all upper Nationalism etc... branch of technologies for us :)

Guys, we really ought to think how to play more than 10 turns a week.
We only have 3 more weeks to play in this SGOTM, and frankly with the game beeing so slow it has lost a lot of fun we had have in the past times.

I didn't see a map, but from what i remember i can recommend the following:

The turn when Industrialisation is researched cash rush the factory in Utica so we don't lose those shields. Next turn use the leader to rush GW.
Then build (rush preferably) Coal plant and start prebuild for ToE

We need to discuss what we are going after Industrialization.
Do we want to go straight towards ToE or do we want to research Hospitals before that???

As soon as AIs are in IA they will research all upper Nationalism etc... branch of technologies for us :)

Guys, we really ought to think how to play more than 10 turns a week.
We only have 3 more weeks to play in this SGOTM, and frankly with the game beeing so slow it has lost a lot of fun we had have in the past times.

I didn't see a map, but from what i remember i can recommend the following:

The turn when Industrialisation is researched cash rush the factory in Utica so we don't lose those shields. Next turn use the leader to rush GW.
Then build (rush preferably) Coal plant and start prebuild for ToE

We need to discuss what we are going after Industrialization.
Do we want to go straight towards ToE or do we want to research Hospitals before that???

We are still ahead of most teams, so should not run out of time. We could start playing 15 turns each, to move it along.

I suggest we go for the next wonder, and don't worry about Hospitals. Getting leaders and rushing wonders is probably the best method for improving our date.

Note there is a few messages in the maintenance thread about changes to best dates for conquest and 20k, I don't think they should have put it there as its basically spoiler info, but it appears from the thread that the 20k best dates has moved relative to conquest to our advantage. Therefore, every turn we can tweak, will give us a chance, so lets keep pressing on those leaders.

Even with newer best dates.
Offa's 680AD conquest is still better than Tao's 1745 20K....

ToE is quite cheap wonder and if we start prebuilding it un Utica right after we have US, Factory and Coal plant rushed there we should be able to prebuild ToE just in time when the tech is researched even with no leader.
(I might be wrong here though, since our palace is so cheap and probably requires less shields than ToE)

We are still ahead of many teams, but last SGOTM 4 (i think) slow teams were cut off with conquest loss.

Even with newer best dates.
Offa's 680AD conquest is still better than Tao's 1745 20K....

ToE is quite cheap wonder and if we start prebuilding it un Utica right after we have US, Factory and Coal plant rushed there we should be able to prebuild ToE just in time when the tech is researched even with no leader.
(I might be wrong here though, since our palace is so cheap and probably requires less shields than ToE)

We are still ahead of many teams, but last SGOTM 4 (i think) slow teams were cut off with conquest loss.
I can't explain what they are saying in that thread, all I know is that we must keep pushing as we may have a better chance than we thought.

Agreed that we should rush Factory, leader rush US (with leader in Utica), then rush Coal Plant. So that we can research TOE without leader.

If we get close to the cut off date, anyone of us could just complete this game in one sitting so we wont lose for sure.

smackster

Hey hey guys, don't give up hey !

Until you have lost, there is always chance to win :)

Btw, i was member of team ankka last sgotm and indeed we got cut off with a conquest loss. We were warned well in advance however, so i don't think you need to worry yet.

I can't explain what they are saying in that thread, all I know is that we must keep pushing as we may have a better chance than we thought.
smackster

100% agree on that

Hey hey guys, don't give up hey !

Until you have lost, there is always chance to win :)

Btw, i was member of team ankka last sgotm and indeed we got cut off with a conquest loss. We were warned well in advance however, so i don't think you need to worry yet.

Oh those lurkers, didn't have that problems last time around :rolleyes:

Hey hey guys, don't give up hey !

Until you have lost, there is always chance to win :)

Btw, i was member of team ankka last sgotm and indeed we got cut off with a conquest loss. We were warned well in advance however, so i don't think you need to worry yet.
Thanks for the encouragement, but don't worry we are still planning to win, even if it means I pull an all nighter to finish.

smackster

24hrs, no "got it" from DH. I checked his profile and no activity since 16th so:'
I got it! and will play this evening. Not much to say about it really. Will gift the scientific tribes to Industrial Age over a few turns so it will probably kick in when we get industrialization. Also doing it over a few turns if the AI maybe could give us MT during the process.

Just FYI... SGOTM5 will start on or around 15th November, and the guillotine for this game will be 31st November. So with 80ish :mischief: turns left in the game you have no need to worry. :)

Thanks M-B, that's good to know....

Turn log

0 – 1275AD
Some MMing, Traded Physics for Silk and Gems from Ottomans. Astronomy for Incense from Greece.
1 – 1280AD
Killed a couple of Barbarians. Patrick now Knight Elite! Maybe a second leader from him later…

2 – 1285AD
Killed a Barbarian.

3 – 1290AD
Barb.Camp dispersed.

4 – 1295AD
Industrialization kicks in, we finish factory in Utica and leader rush US. Gift Greece into IA, they get SP. :( Germany gets Nationalism, Otto gets it too. Just Persia left and we are still at war with them, will attack a final city of theirs and sue for peace. Traded for Nationalism from Germany. Electricity next

5 – 1300AD
Peace with Persia, gift them into IA, they get Nationalism too… Peace with Celts. Will DoW India in a couple of turns. Babylon ready for war in 6 turns.

6 – 1305AD
Killed a horde of Barbarians and gained two elites from it. Ottomans landed a Settler/pike combo north of Sabarath.

7 – 1310AD
Greece DoW us! Ottomans found Istanbul near Wool.

8 – 1315AD
Traded Industrialization to Germans for 50 gpt and 170 gold, and to Otto for 38 gpt and 55 gold.

9 – 1320AD
The sixth elite attack!

10 – 1325AD
3 elite attacks!

11 – 1330AD
2 elite attacks. 4 elites land in Greece.

12 – 1335AD
Raised 1 greek city , 2 elites

13 – 1340AD
Raised two greek cities, 6 elites attacks. Electricity researched, Medicine started.

After action report:
Stopped after 13 turns, Dman can take the next 12. One reason was that Research is changed this turn so we have an opportunity to go Corporation instead if we want to build for Wall Street and gamble the AI will research medicine. No trades either in the final turn.

Athens just dropped drastically in size so have probably drafted rifles. Maybe wait a turn so you can have all available knights in position before attacking.

19 elite attacks, no leaders… Dman you have a go now!


Firaxis: 721
Culture: 9563 (105/turn) est. win date: 1762 (80 turns until 1740 ~130 culture per turn)
0 leaders, 19 attacks

I should be able to play online,
Please give me some input on whether we want to go towards corporation, ToE or Hospitals...
Early Hospitals are good for increasing score due to pop increase...

I'd rather build ToE before wall street due to 2 free tech and 1 more culture from ToE. Personally, i am afraid it will too long for AIs to research medicine

So, lets put to the vote on what next tech should be.

Maximise culture, we don't care about score right, no points for score in this game.
ToE makes sense then.

Unlucky with the leaders, I feel we have done almost all that we can in this game, but doesn't seem to make much difference with the end result.

Medicine -> TOE -> after building Hoover dam/tech available go for Corporation to build Wall street.

A non military tribe with Heroic Epic = 1/16th chance of a leader right?

Hospitals are a low priority, only after having secured the available GWs and hopefully getting it from AI. Bad luck the four available Scientific tribes did not get Medicine for us...

Medicine -> TOE -> after building Hoover dam/tech available go for Corporation to build Wall street.

A non military tribe with Heroic Epic = 1/16th chance of a leader right?

Hospitals are a low priority, only after having secured the available GWs and hopefully getting it from AI. Bad luck the four available Scientific tribes did not get Medicine for us...

Ok i am going towards ToE (probably won't happen during my turns).
I will also try to fish a leader fighting Indians.

We are at war with Greece too.

1/16 before Heroic Epic, 1/12 after IIRC? Leader generation is the same regardless of traits btw, Militaristic only helps indirectly by giving you more elites.

I thought 1/32 before and 1/16 after HE.

That's likelyhood of getting elite's not leaders.

posted wrong info,
i think wotan is right with chances before and after HE
and it is the same for military and non-military civs

Our current estimated date of 1762, is a mere 7 turns from the current 20k leader at 1745

Yes, but with 80 turns to go until 1740 we need to gain another ~700 culture during those turns from new buildings. ToE (3), Hoover(2), Wall street(2) and Intel agency (1) available in IA. With tech costs at 7+ turns I guess we will barely get out of IA before end of game.

1745 could be a diplo victory(?)

Yes, but with 80 turns to go until 1740 we need to gain another ~700 culture during those turns from new buildings. ToE (3), Hoover(2), Wall street(2) and Intel agency (1) available in IA. With tech costs at 7+ turns I guess we will barely get out of IA before end of game.

1745 could be a diplo victory(?)

Diplo victory has pretty bad best Jason date relatively to 20K.
I know dates have been changed but still it would be much worser and I believe it will put as well behind other teams

This is my 4th turn and we've got a leader while attacking Indian city. (I have luck with Ghandi this game).
I will rush ToE and I don't really want to take electronics and AT as free tech,
instead i will get Electronics and corporation,
This way we will have chance to start building stockexchanges in all cities and we will also have 7-8 turns for another leader hunt to build Hoovers in Utica.
I know nobody but Smackster and maybe DH are going to read this tonight but at least i will get your guys opinions...
I will stop when I have ToE built.

32 is on defense before HE, and 16 on the offense before HE? and 24/12 after?

Pre-flight: I've noticed slave guards bordering the shores have been removed and turkey have a city on top of our wool....

IBT Germans founded Munich on the southern tip of our island.

T1. 1345AD
Assigned workers to mine irrigated plains around Rusicade, that will give us better shields output, we have a major food surplus over there
We probably could irrigate plains around Utica but since it is not having any major builds, I keep it as it is producing max gold/science.
Science slider is down to 90%. I am not sure if I should attack Athens, its size has decreased again, another draft, I am facing rifles and muskets against knights. Not very good odds... maybe I should move all the knights towards another smaller city.
Captured 2 Indian workers

T2 1350 AD
Really nothing happened here... Elites are recovering near Indian city. I also pillaged tiles around Athens.
The passage blocker, I am sorry to say but we don't need it anymore, so it's moving to the port to be upgraded.

T3 1355

Moving knight towards Corinph

T4 1360AD...
Turning science slider down another 10%
Elite MDI attacks spear kills nothing
Elite knight attacks spear and dies...
Another elite attack and Hamilcar raises
Taking over Indian city and gift it to Babylon
Medicine in 3 turns...
Any warfare from now on doesn't have any sense; I will suspend any active action against Greece with exception of unit training and some pillaging. I'd like to leave Athens alone for now.

T5 1365AD
Pillaged some of the Greek lands... Is it time to make peace with them??? I don't really want to make peace since it
Won’t take 20 turns to get to the point when we need to declare on someone again, and Greeks look like the best target at the moment.

IBT Persia and India signed trade embargo against us...

T6. 1370AD
Killed 3 barbarians and have one knight promoted to elite.

T7 1375 AD.
Medicine is researched. SM in 7 turns. Lux deal of ottomans expire
The same turns ottomans research MT, I trade Electricity to MT 24GPT, 4 luxuries and some gold
Sell Electricity to Germans for 4gpt and 19 gold, the rest of AI are broke.
Upgraded some cavalry, will send to the Greek land next turn.
With all the knights on Greek land I am going to play a trick by taking a city and then gifting it, that should teleport our armies back to our land safely, then we can upgrade.

To keep army costs down, I’ve disbanded non elite MDIs and swordsmen we had.

Sell Chivalry to Vikings for 9 gold and 2gpt

T8 1380 AD....
Upgraded some cavalry, loaded to caravels, more shipment next turn...
BTW, this is a significant date. That’s when we finished the previous game.

IBT. Crap, lost few workers (5 I think) to barbarian

T9 1385AD
Still can't trade with AIs... I give Steam power to Babylonians for 36 gold hoping rails will bring more gold.

T10 1390 AD...
Bunch of galleons loaded with cavalry moving towards Greek land, nothing else is happening.

T11 1395 AD
Keep moving galleons.

T12 1490 AD
Scientific Method in 2 turns. We don't have much money and I am disappointed with AIs....
As a matter of fact Greece is also at war with Babylonians and that is probably why Hammurabi is so useless.
Osman all of the sudden rich and gives us 75gpt for Medicine. I think we should take it, unless Osman is our next target but then we will lose the only worthy trading partner.
We probably should disband the army we have, just wasting maintenance on it.
There is a pair of Indian settler and spear, I’d say let them go and attack in 2 turns after rushing ToE, may be we are lucky and get a leader.

Utica 10835 points and 108 CPT.

Not the best set of turns, but at least we have a leader and now we can use cavalry.
I still suggest we get corporation as one our free tech and another would be electronics...
Then we research atomic theory ourselves, while making a pre-build in Utica and then build Hoover. (Unless, we are lucky and 1st attack against Indian spear bring as a leader)
Or may be we should even reseach hospitals, we need more population to produce more gold and shields, that will help us to get overal research much faster... Hospitals will help A LOT

Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm4/Smackster_SG004_AD1400_01.SAV)


EDIT: I've noticed XTeam with 1250AD is ahead of us.. They must have finished the game and i bet anyone it is not 20K. Most likely conquest or maybe diplomatic although latter is not very realistic given the slow pace of research.

Well done! A leader! Corporation cost 2666 beakers, Atomic Theory 5333 beakers and Electronics 4800 beakers. I guess that sort of decides it. Take AT and Electronics as Free techs. We will build ToE the turn after researching SM since we need to disband the leader in Utica for ToE. Remember to set research to 0% that turn for max gold yield... ;)

I hope Tarkeel can play soon... He seems to be quite busy these days studying.
Should we pass the game to Smackster if Tarkeel does not respond until night falls in Norway?

I didn't check the tech costs before and now i agree with Wotan on the free tech choices...
We should also research Hospitals after corporation ASAP.

The question is if Smackster is "fully functional" tonight... Red Sox up 3-0 vs Cardinals and a new and possible final match tonight in St.Louis? I guess he will stay glued to the TV not the PC tonight... ;)

The question is if Smackster is "fully functional" tonight... Rox Sox up 3-0 vs Cardinals and a new and possible final match tonight in St.Louis? I guess he will stay glued to the TV not the PC tonight... ;)

You are probably correct. Not beeing a baseball fan i had no idea what's going on in world series until now... :)

The question is if Smackster is "fully functional" tonight... Red Sox up 3-0 vs Cardinals and a new and possible final match tonight in St.Louis? I guess he will stay glued to the TV not the PC tonight... ;)
I may be able to play regardless of the baseball tonight. So I'll take the swap with Tarkeel assuming he does not turn up.

Agreed with the tech choices. My plan beyond that is to just get back to leader farming. I'm still convinced that the HE has a negative effect on leaders, have you noticed we are getting less now that we have it, or is it just my paranoia.

smackster

Yes, please do some leader hunt... :ar15:
You will find 6 galleons filled with Cavalry heading to the Greece with scheduled arrival in 2 turns and I have 8 more leftover knights already there.
That should cover your army needs.
I am afraid there will be only 2 elite knights for you to operate with and obviously no elite cavalries at a moment.
Few elites are also based in india so you can use one after we rush a wonder to kill indian spear/settler pair and may the luck be with you!. :)

What do you guys think, should we start playing up to 15 each to get this baby finished.
As we've not heard from DH, I'll put him on Autoskip, and unless Tarkeel apears his will be a skip too, not a swap, so it will be back to Wotan and then Dman, and at 15 turns each we'll not be far from finish by the weekend.

smackster

I am fine with the plan if it doesn't hurt someone's feeling...

Tarkeel, DH where are you guys????

OK! 15 it is...

Oh.. back to me already. Hm. Don't wait too long to skip me.. Can probably take it after Wotan.

Oh.. back to me already. Hm. Don't wait too long to skip me.. Can probably take it after Wotan.
We didn't :)

You just tell us when you can take some turns, and we'll fit you in. Right now you could take them, after I play tonight you could take them and that is just in a normal swap. After Wotan will start to confuse us a little.

Yeah :) To fill you in, we have a huge project that's due in 3 weeks at school. In addition to that, we have mandatory assignments in other courses. So I have to read and evaluate 4 group-essays by friday, write about databasetransactions for next friday, etc etc. Basically they're trying their best to kill us ;)

:suicide:
I am glad i am not in school anymore, that's all i can say :)

Good luck with all the assignments and projects and hopefully you will be back with us on full schedule when the next SGOTM starts...
I hope we will keep going as the same team.

T0 1400AD
Take the deal with Ottomans and give them Medicine for 75GPT and 50 Gold. If push comes to shove and we need to get more leaders we can always break that deal

T1 1405AD
Shuffle shuffle shuffle

T2 1410AD
SM comes in, sci to zero, rush the TOE which is only 14 turns.

We start with 3 elite attacks, but find that we are really short of them. I intend to maximise fighting potential until we get another leader. Certainly hope to build the MA in that period.

We capture Pharsolos from Greeks, get an elite upgrade of a Knight. Wanted to gift it to Babylon, but don't want the Knight to teleport.

T3 1415AD
TOE comes in and we get AT, and Electronics. Start on Corporation, which we can get in 6 or 7 turns, or Corporation which we can get in 6 or 7 turns based on how I do the shields. I can't get them both in 6 whatever I do. Well I'll wait on leaders, as its only worth completing the MA if we do get a leader in the next 6 turns, in fact we can get Hoovers in 12 and I'll build that if we don't get a leader.

Attack athens with two more elites (5) Greece show conscripted rilfes left in Athens, should be a few there, then Knossos which is taken and gifted to Babylon, we get a elite Cavalry upgrade


T4 1420AD
15 Cavalry arrive outside Babylon, will declare war next turn.

Elite attack on Greece (6), Sparta is taken. Elite attack on Bangalore (7), is taken, India out of the game. Both cities gifted to Babylon.

First session done, will continue later. I told you 7 more elite attacks and no leader, HE is bad, very bad.

Right now, 1758 estimated end, its getting closer.

How many turns will it take to build Hoovers in Utica?

Sorry, i was reading every other line :blush:
can see it now

Even if you get leader after 6 turns it will take another 4-5 turns to transport it back to utica.
if you get a leader, instead of wasting shields in utica cash rush stock exchange there, then rush Hoovers with leaders... if every other city also builds stock exchange we will be able to start Wall Street right away.
It gives more culture than MA

PC crashes and I lose three turns of notes. Not much happened, still haven't attacked Babylon but about to. Gifted a number of cities to Babylon and Greece down to one city.

T7 1435
Just about to attack Babylon and they show some Cavalry and Knights. Going in, wish me luck.

Our only elite attack is our only loss. Its quite funny as our Cavalry wander by undefended Babylon cities that we gifted them

Get more deals with Ottoman, and a new deal with Germany. Eyeing up Celts for a new offensive. Really we should not worry about reputation in this game anymore, but I'm not going to break it until the team agrees that it is not work anything to us

We drop a stack of Cavalry on a hill right in the middle of Babylonia, should be fun

T8 1440
No return attacks from Babylon, even though we are right in their territory. We attack and take two cities, very lightly defended with rifles. Our only elite attack was a retreat and we got no upgrades. Decide to gift these two to Greece also after peace.

Elite Knight attack Athens, and wins (8) but takes it. Come on Greece where are your defenders. We declare peace with Greece who only have a far of city now, and then gift athens back to Greece and get a ROP so that we can use their land. We'll start gifting cities back to them, and then we can take them back again in 20 turns.

Gift Ninevah and Akkad to Greece.

Plan to finish the rest tonight.

Main problem is healing of our elites, usually after they win they need to take 3-4 turns to heal so they can attack again.

smackster

i have a wild idea, but it came quite late, so it is not really worthy...

But here is the thought...
1. We build bunch of settlers
2. use them to found cities on Persia/India land.
3. Gift those cities to either persians or indians.
4. Wait x number of turns for cities to grow up a little and get some defence...
5. we attack...
6. Goto step 1

That would also help us to heal out troops faster in Rusicade.

Yes anything to maximise the elite attacks. So building cities for the AI will help them. I was also thinking for this particular position, to gift Greece some workers, they may join them to their capital (which is small) and then allow them to conscript some more Rifles.

edit : and also get Greece to fight Babylon, who will take their cities back, and allow us to take them back again, and gift them back to Greece again :)

T8 1440AD cont
Can't give workers to Greece as their capital is now and island and they don't have a harbour, oh well.

T9 1445AD
Babylon take back Akkad from Greece :), they promptly nationalise two Rifles and we kill them both, plus the Cavalry that took it back, and then gift it right back to the Greeks, for Babylon to take next turn again.

Elite attack Mycaenea wins (9) and they have another spear there that we can attack next turn. Our elite sword at home attacks the Babylon city there, but dies dammit.

Now I can trade workers with Greece and gift them about 6 or 7.

T10 1450AD

Corporation comes in, we start on Espionage, but I'm stopping now so can be changed

Three elite attacks this turn and the we get the result as the third one gives us a Leader. He is a long way from home there is a Caravel one turn away now, he's active and in Mycenea. Note I've captured two cities that need to be disposed of.

I'm out of time tonight and can't neaten this up.

Hoovers in 5

Culture 11963, 117 per turn

Well done Smackster, another leader...:)
Have had a quick look at the save. Will play tonight.

A few points/questions, please make comments.

Gifting captured cities to Greece?
Keep war running vs. Babs?
Let Hoover finish then switch to Stock Xchange (cash rush) and Wall Street (leader rush)? Then MA.
Hospitals and Battlefield Medicine is probably next before Espionage. Same culture but we boost research with more pop in cities.
Trading with other nations?
Any other candidates for war?

Just checked the finish date, with Hoover, Wall street, BM, MilA and IntelA we still finish in the 1750's... Probably in 1752. :(

Well done Smackster, another leader...:)
Have had a quick look at the save. Will play tonight.

A few points/questions, please make comments.

Gifting captured cities to Greece?
Keep war running vs. Babs?
Let Hoover finish then switch to Stock Xchange (cash rush) and Wall Street (leader rush)? Then MA.
Hospitals and Battlefield Medicine is probably next before Espionage. Same culture but we boost research with more pop in cities.
Trading with other nations?
Any other candidates for war?

Just checked the finish date, with Hoover, Wall street, BM, MilA and IntelA we still finish in the 1750's... Probably in 1752. :(

Guess we needed one more AA wonder. I'm not aware that there is anything we could have done to change this in the end.

Agreed with the wonder order.

Note there is a lot of work to do in the current turn, I really only did the elite attacks and then had to sleep.

edit: you did (Wotan, you are up in case you didn't realise.

I suggest we start gifting cities to somebody else. Just don't want to give too many to Greece, we do have deals with Greece for about 18 turns or so.

We could declare peace now, as we probably have 10 turns at least where we don't need a leader. Although trying to get more elites would be good.

Interesting that in 450AD our firaxis score is No.1. We have not tried to do this but I wonder why, maybe the extra tiles we get for Rusicade, the other teams bunching them together more.

Agreed on reserach construction orders....
and yes we needed either one more AA wonder or we should have built Great Library 1000 years earlier than we did

I enjoyed this game and learned a lot, but realise now that a 5CC 20k game is not the best target and has too much luck. In fact a number of people said this before the game. But hey its been fun, I really enjoyed gifting cities to Greece, only to see Babylon take them back and for me to take them back again :)

Hi guys, I see you are online right now. I am sorry but I will not be able to finish my ten turns tonight. Nina wont allow me to play games when our guests have arrived. :( I have tried to explain the importance and the extreme responsibility I have to complete it tonight, but to no avail. Will have to do it tomorrow morning. The things you have to endure when one has grown up, I remember how easy it was to be excused from the table when I was a kid... ;)

@Smackster: I too feel I have learnt a lot in this game. We cannot really point fingers in any direction re. choice of VC. We agreed 20K would be a question of having luck with leaders. Especially in the AA... And, we could not really have known the AI would be so weak. Or maybe we could have suspected it... :(´

At least beginning next SGOTM the variant will be a single VC so everyone will target the same. Makes things a whole lot easier...

Can't your guests join you round the computer, come on they might learn something. No we all understand about that, so take your time.

I was all for this victory condition, but just didn't realise the eventual nature of the end.

Next game will be better when we all have to do the same.

It was indeed a great game...
Personally I think 20K game competition is much better in Conquests, since you can not use leaders to rush wonders and team luck is not that important. (Well, Sci. leaders should be off of course).

We are still have quite few turns to play in this one, and we have to make sure we do evrything possible to not let any more teams squeeze in front of us. :)


Tarkeel Tarkeel!!!
Can you take the turns tonight, since Wotan can't make it???