CSC 1.22, tiny, 3 rivals, continents, 60% water. Hiawatha. Random rivals. Warlord.

Roster (full):
Linebacker
Sesn
Ginger Ale

This is a training SG for Linebacker. Thanks to Sesn and GA for their gracious help. :) :goodjob:

Checking in. :) Hope we we help Linebacker improve his civing. :thumbsup:

1. worker W, settler NW. Find fish to NE
2. Found Salamance. worker E. Writing at 20%. Building curragh.
10. worker N.
12. curragh S to explore
14 IT - warrior ->settler
18. find dark green border. F10 says Hittites. Others are America and Carthage.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/linebacker1.jpg

1. worker W, settler NW. Find fish to NE
2. Found Salamance. worker E. Writing at 20%. Building curragh.
10. worker N.
12. curragh S to explore
14 IT - warrior ->settler
18. find dark green border. F10 says Hittites. Others are America and Carthage.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/linebacker1.jpg

Nice job moving the worker first. :goodjob: Lots of people forget to do that (myself included). Looks like we've found our target for our Mounted Warriors already.

@AK: Is Sesn up, or am I?

Thanks for your help.

Since there's 3 of us go ahead & play

Usually in a Training (day) game, you wait for comments before the next players play. I can think of at least some things to say... :)

lurker's comment(s): This looks like an ideal map so far for Mounted Warriors. Because it is continents, chances are that the Hittites are the only civ near you, and you already know a route to them where there wouldn't be interruptions to Mounted Warrior movement (9 turns from Salamanca to the Hittite capital for a Mounted Warrior.) About Mounted Warriors, make sure you use them in a government other than Despotism if you can. Because Despotism produces 1 less food/shields/commerce on any square that produces more than 2 (which is why irrigating grassland doesn't do anything in Despotism.)

With researching Writing, is the plan a Republic slingshot (research Writing then Code of Laws, then if you get Philosophy first you'll get Republic as a free technology)? Because the Hittites get their UU at The Wheel, don't they research it sooner than normal? If so, you could buy it from them then research Horseback Riding (they probably won't research Horseback Riding for a while because their unique unit doesn't upgrade to a Horseman and they can't build Horsemen.)

Potential cities... Definitely try to get the forest and cow (that city will probably be building settlers in the long run because of the food bonus.) You won't need it immediately but the Dyes will be helpful once cities are past size 3 (after 3 citizens there will be one unhappy on Warlord unless you have done something like rushing production by forced labor, if you do it'll be less.)Spots further southwest of Salamanca are good, particularly with production with all of those hills, but the Hittites could grab them. I haven't downloaded the save yet, but it looks like the Hittites aren't in a very good start position, so they'll want better places. Will check the save, though. Edit: Looked at the save, the Hittites have a bad start. The 2 grassland tiles they have are irrigated, the rest is desert or plains. The save looks pretty good to me. You can get Ceremonial Burial at a pretty high price (including gold per turn) but I wouldn't.

I was thinking of building the next city SE of the cattle, and then another SE of the dyes, and another 2 W of the city by the dyes. Any ideas about that? (I'll play tonight if Sesn doesn't claim it :) ). @Tomoyo: Feel free to share comments - there aren't many in the first 20 turns though. @viper: Yep, Republic slingshot sounds like a good idea. We should definately be able to beat the AI there.

Checking in. About to mow my lawn, so I can't play for an hour or two. If you can play now, then go ahead and do so, GA.

Quick comments:
-You want to be careful working the Floodplains. Losing pop to disease can be a real pain this early.
-I also don't think we need to be working the hill this early. You generally want to be working tiles that are 2 food and 1 shield at minimum. Food is #1 priority early on.
-Next city should grab the cow, but I'd like to see more of the area before commiting to placement, maybe waste a turn and step on the mountain first?
-After the settler, we need a couple warriors to explore.
-I'd like to turn the exploring warrior E, following the curragh doesn't help us as much.
-When exploring, try to step on hills and mountains whenever possible, it gives you extra visibility.
-Once writing comes in, go to max research.
-If we build the city to the SE of the cow, the worker should chop the forest to speed a granary.

That's it for now, I'm off to go mow. :)

Looks like GA didn't have a chance, so...

Got It.

Should be able to play in about 12hrs.

Alright, thanks, yep, this week I have free time - yesterday afternoon we went into Boston (no, not to watch the Red Sox - though they did do quite well!), so that took away my chance. If you can get it done before 7 / 8 pm, I should be able to get turns in today - if not, tomorrow is fine as well.

I can't touch it before 7 or 8.

If you have time, play it now, since I'm still at work.

Ok, then, I've got it, and will play it in about 3 hours or so. :)

Wow! Those 3 hours wen't by quick. ;)
-------

Turn 0 - 3000 BC
Wow! We are down three techs - we put science to 100%, Writing in 19 turns, 0 gpt. Settler next turn. Also, we decide to move our warrior in the opposite direction of the curragh (towards the mountains we go).

Salamanca: Settler -> Warrior

Turn 1 - 2950 BC
Warrior explores, curragh explores, settler moves to the area of cattle.

Turn 2 - 2900 BC
Worker roads hill.

Turn 4 - 2800 BC
Settler moves into position.

Turn 5 - 2750 BC
Niagara Falls is founded. Production set to worker.

Turn 6 - 2710 BC

Salamanca: Warrior -> Warrior

Turn 9 - 2590 BC
Worker moves onto forest, and will start to chop it next turn.
Hittites have founded a city N of Hattusas.

Turn 10 - 2550 BC
Exploration.

Advice: Just keep exploring east. My advice for settling our next two cities are E of the dyes, and W and SW of the dyes. And don't forget to have fun!! :)

can you post a dot map so I'm clear on where the next cities should be?

About Mounted Warriors, make sure you use them in a government other than Despotism if you can.

good thought Viper. If a lurker or player would care to post about GA's and why they are bad in despotism, it would be appreciated.

@ sesn & GA - nice posts, you've got Linebacker thinking and he's asking the right questions. he's played Chieftan and won on standard with tutorial help. This should be a good stretch. I'll fire up Mapstat when we meet civ 2

GAs in despotism are bad because a lot of types of terrain, when fully improved, produce two shields/commerce, like any roaded river tile or mined Bonus Grasslands. However, a GA in despotism too save yourself is better than no GA and a dead you.

Yeah, hopefully we can build up our army of MWs, switch governments, then attack. Also, if we trade the Hittites Monarchy if we get to it first, switch immeadiately, then, when we are a Monarchy, trade it to them, and attack. They'll likely switch into anarchy, and won't be able to produce any units. :)

@Linebacker: Here you go. I also added a blue dot. :) It is a bit small build, but we do get good production, so we should get a lot of MWs.

@ Tomoyo - thanks for the delurk. Linebacker listens better when Dad doesn't explain.

@ GA - thanks for the dotmap. Really like green, somewhat like red. Don't like blue. At warlord, think we can get away with a city 2 S of green to claim lux #2. I wouldn't be that aggressive on a higher level.

Question, how much faster does research at max get us to writing than research at minimum? We'll let Linebacker answer if nobody minds. :)

Question 2 for Linebacker: Should we get philosophy, what should our free tech be? I'd vote no on Great Lib. at this level with only 3 rivals. MM?

@ lurkers - what other questions should linebacker consider while he chomps at the bit in anticipation of Sesn's turns?

@ GA - thanks for the dotmap. Really like green, somewhat like red. Don't like blue. At warlord, think we can get away with a city 2 S of green to claim lux #2. I wouldn't be that aggressive on a higher level.


2 S of green is a mountain. :P

Yeah, I can improve red...sorry for not seeing this before. To reduce overlap, move it one tile SW...that way, we're still on the coast, still have lots of grassland, and still get the forest. Blue, yep, I'd go for the lux I guess...if we don't get there in time, that's ok. And good luck Sesn.

@Ginger Ale: Good dotmap. Maybe 3 south for the blue to grab the wheat and have less desert? Also perhaps 1 southwest for red so that there is less overlap. Edit: Now already mentioned. AK had a good thought grabbing those luxuries, definitely fine on Warlord.

I R idiot. 3S of green. grab furs

You know, when I first started playing SG's, we barely finished my first game. The dropouts we had really left a bad taste in my mouth. As such, I have made it pretty clear that I abhor skips/dropouts, and pride myself on never being skipped (other than vacations) in my time on these boards (although I have certainly delayed a time or three). Curious how sometimes one must become that which he loathes, huh?

When I came home from work tonight, I was informed that the relationship I have been in for the past four years was crumbling. Unfortunately, the time I spend on Civ/SG's is one of the reasons.

As such, my time for civ will be severely limited in the coming weeks while I tend to more important things. While it is possible I could perhaps keep my obligation in one or two games, it doesn't feel right to pick and choose which one(s).

Therefore, it is with great remorse and my most sincere apologies that I must request to be put on auto skip in all games, effective immediately. Hopefully I will still be able to lurk a bit, and maybe even contribute here and there (especially from work).

If things get smoothed out quickly, then I will request to be added back in to rosters, at the hosts' discretion. I am not terribly optimistic though.

Once again, apologies to all. :(

completely understood. good luck. Look forward to your return.

Hope you can get it all sorted out Sesn :) You are a great SG player, and thanks. :)

@AK: Perhaps now we have a slot open, or should it just be a 2 person (3 person including you) SG?

lurker's comment: Goodbye Sesn, you helped me out a lot in Clive1. Hope you can get it resolved soon.

As mentioned in the thread about this game, I don't think I can join in. However, if nobody else does and stuff lightens up a bit I'll consider it, because a tiny map shouldn't take much time.

@ lurkers - looking for mentors

If nobody chimes in by tomorrow I'll pick it up and then put linebacker in the hot seat.

Wow, I knew your 12 SGs would catch up with you, Sesn... I'll chime in once in a while in this game but I won't play.

Green is good, red is decent. After green, try to poach the furs. Blue is VERY low priority. Change NF to a granary immediately. Also, you'll want to change Sal to a wonder before the chop comes in, otherwise it won't go to NF. Is that fresh water north of NF, I can't really tell. If so, you should be able to hit the magic +5fpt by irrigating the cow. Unfortunately, you won't have a good factory unless you find another BG.

Explanations for LB:
-You should always expand towards the ai. When all the land between is filled, it is much easier for you to fill in behind your lines than it is for the ai to get a settler there.
-Chopping the forest gives 10 free shields to the closest city. In the case of a tie in distance, it goes in a clockwise fashion for priority. Since you want the shields to go to Niagara, the capitol should be changed to a wonder. A forest chop will not add shields to a wonder, but will send them to the next closest city instead.
-A settler factory is a city where you can build a settler every four turns, without losing population. Since a settler consumes two pop points when made, you need to be able to recoup the two pop points in four turns. The way to do this is to build a granary in a city that can get five extra food per turn. The granary allows the city to grow one pop point with only ten extra food total. 4x5=20, and 2x10=20

EDIT: and it was only 10 SG's Tomoyo. :p

With Ak2a over and 5 in 1 coming to a close, plus Monarch Training 2 and Jumpmasters1A looking like they are nearing the end, I think that I'll be able to join this one. Count me in now.

@ viper - grab it. Neither I nor Linebacker will be able to get to this until tomoorwo at the earliest.

Okay, then I've got it.

Preturn- Good.
1
None
IBT-None
2
Nothing
IBT-Nothing
3
Niagara Falls looks like a good settler farm to me, okay with the team? Science to 80% so we get 1 gpt and Writing in the same amount of time.
IBT- Hittites get a free city, Ugarit, far, far away from the capital.
4
Nothing
IBT- Yawn
5
Zzzz...
IBT- Zzzz...
6
About to get Writing, science to 50% to get 3 gpt and still get Writing on the next turn. Nice trick for some extra money.
IBT- Writing ==> Code of Laws (Republic slingshot.) Turn science back up to 100%.
7
Establish embassy in Hattusas. Nothing impressive, size 2, they have 2 warriors guarding it and they are researching at 100% science. Building settler which will be done in 8 but city grows in 12 so it'll really be 12, 3 spt per turn. Only has Palace. 5 commerce total, 2 food surplus right now meaning 6 fpt. Hittites must have popped Writing from a hut, they have it.
IBT-Nothing
8
Nothing
IBT-None
9
See a coastline, probably the other continent.
IBT- Zzzz......
10
Nothing

Summary
Nothing much, we have an embassy now with the Hittites. Two questions for the team:
1. I was planning to be aggressive for that furs spot and grab it now. What does everyne else think?
2. Most likely we could try a suicide curragh mission. If we succeed (meaning the curragh doesn't sink in the ocean) then we would discover the other continent and as a result the other two civs. If we fail we lose a curragh. I suggest giving it a try.

Linebacker- Up
Ginger Ale
viper275- Just played

@ team - break it down a little and explain whyNiagara Falls looks like a good settler farm to me,

It has a food bonus, the cattle gives +2 food. When we leave Despotism, irrigate it and that is 5 food per turn. 5 is the magic number for food per turn. After that, we should cut down the forests and mine the grassland until we get to, say, 7 shields per turn. The next citizen gets on another mined grassland, making 8 shields per turn after 2 turns. 7+7=14, 8+8=16, 14+16=30 shields or 1 settler in 4 turns. This, of course, is just one way. Anything that makes 30 shields or a bit more is fine. And with a granary and 5 food per turn, the city will not lose population (5+5=10 or 1 population, another 5+5=10 so now 2 citizens, the cost of a settler.)

Hope I didn't make this too confusing.

Or, the simple method of explaining: you need to get a city to produce 5 food a turn, and about 7 or 8 shields a turn. ;)

Hittites popped Writing from a hut
What is the tech situation with them? Once we get CoL, I would definately trade it, as we can beat them to Philo and The Republic.

Not too good for us. They're about 5 viewable techs in the Diplomacy screen ahead, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was more than that. We can't do much about it. I just hope they don't get CoL or worse yet, Philosophy from a hut (Philosophy is a cheap tech and huts give you the cheapest tech possible.) I don't think there are too many huts on this island though because it's small.
Edit: Everyone have CRPSuite? It's helpful. They have a newer version now, too.

how many wariors did you make and I think I might send one NE.

Actually, if you have a forest, you only need 6 spt at size 5, and 7 spt at size 6

how many wariors did you make and I think I might send one NE.
I think I already sent one NE in my turns. This is for exploration, right?
[QUOTE] Actually, if you have a forest, you only need 6 spt at size 5, and 7 spt at size 6 [/QUOUTE]
Meaning you chop down the forest each time? That could work. But if you did that couldn't you have even less spt?

Not so lurker's comment: Actually, whenever the city grows, the new citizen gets put on a new tile by the governor, and if the city has a lot of food, it is usually a forest. It helps to have "Emphasize Production" on too. Since food is calculated before shields, you get an extra 2 shields from the forest on turns 2 and 4, meaning you need one less overall spt. Hope that helps..:)

Oh, so you're talking about micromanaging it. I know what you mean, but isn't both food and shields calculated each turn, so it would end up at 4 fpt as opposed to 5 fpt?

Food and shields are calculated separately. Here's exactly how it works:

Turn 1: 5fpt, 6spt.

Turn 2: 5fpt. City grows. Now, with the extra citzen on the forest, the city now produces 8spt, putting a total of 14 in the bin.

Turn 3: Citizen is moved from the forest to a two food tile, with one shield. 5fpt, 7 spt. 21 shields in the bin.

Turn 4: 5fpt. City grows. The extra citizen means that it will produce 9 spt. 30 sields in the bin, settler comes out. :)

I understand now. Looks good.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ak4_linebacker_1790_BC.SAV)

1.nothing

2.moved warrior S one is being moved near Hitties moved settler south one.

3.moved boat SW sent workers to build road Grand River founded-making warrior.

4.nothing

5.moved boat north.

6.nothing.

7.nothing.

8warrior to worker.

9.nothing.

10.settler made and going to furs moving warrior to village if Hitties did't take it.

Alright, I think I'm up. Got it, will play tonight hopefully. :) Any suggestions before I play?

Turn 0 - 1790 BC
:sleep:

Turn 1 - 1750 BC
:sleep:

Turn 2 - 1725 BC
Our curragh has circled the continent, we'll send it on a suicide mission.

Grand River: Worker -> Barracks

Turn 3 - 1700 BC
Micromanaging science.

Turn 4 - 1675 BC
We see the Hittites heading towards our furs. We better settle next turn.

Code of Laws -> Philosophy

Turn 5 - 1650 BC
We settle next to the furs. We are close to other cities though. Production to worker.
We trade CoL for Bronze Working and Ceremonial Burial.

Turn 6 - 1625 BC
:sleep:

Niagara Falls: Granary -> Settler

Turn 7 - 1600 BC
:sleep:

Turn 8 - 1575 BC
:sleep:

Turn 9 - 1550 BC
:sleep:

Turn 10 - 1525 BC
Curragh is ready to do a suicide run next turn. :)

Advice: Send the curragh west, and keep expanding.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ak4_1525BC.SAV)

Got it (10).

Preturn- Okay
1
Suicide curragh sees something
IBT- Curragh dies
2
Nothing
IBT-Philosophy==>Republic. Republic free, so Republic==>Map Making. And we revolt! 5 turn anarchy.
3
Nothing
IBT-Nada
4
None
IBT-Zzzzz.....
5
None
IBT-Nothing
6
Zzz...
IBT-None
7
Nothing
IBT-Niagara Falls riots, we get to Republic :banana: .
8
Nothing
IBT-None
9
Nothing
IBT-None
10
I just realized something! Don't need that much research in Republic! :wallbash: Should've thought of it sooner.
IBT- Nothing
11
Nothing

Accidentally played 11 turns, inaccurately followed the turn timer in victory status screen. Everything seems to be in place nicely. We'll want a city getting wheat, the incense will be good too. Settlers heading both ways.

Linebacker's got RL for a couple of days. May be a few days...