View Full Version : The World War in 10 AD, and the Return of Germany's Greatest Swordsman!


joespaniel
Nov 24, 2001, 03:48 PM
Whew! What a mess I'm in!

Germany, and its unlikely ally, the Iroquois, are actively at war with America, Russia, Zululand, the Aztecs, Egypt and France.

The World War began in 10 BC, with the Americans attempting to extort Germany, which was flatly refused, eliciting and American declaration of war. Emmisaries from Germany were sent to America's neighbor, the Iroquois, and an embassy was established. The Iroquois were very receptive to an alliance against their imperialist neighbor, apparently they were sick of bully-boy tactics as well as Germany.

Now this benefited Germany quite well. Sadly, Germany lies on another continent from America and the Iroquois Nation ( Russia, Japan, England, Greece, Persia and Zululand are also on that continent). Germany enjoyed peace with its neighbors France since 3000 BC after a border dispute war which Germany won, and has never had disagreements with Egypt nor the Aztecs (also on the same continent with us).

Immediately after the Iroquois declaration of war, the Americans must have begun a diplomatic blitz, because suddenly the Zulus declared war on Germany. This in and of itself was almost a joke, except that the Zulus somehow managed to bring first Egypt, then France and the Aztecs into the war! My own tactic used against me!!!

Shortly thereafter, Russia jumped on the bandwagon by taking advantage of Germany's dark situation by attempting to extort us as well. Ofcourse German pride prevented us from caving in, and Russia is also now at war with Germany.

Seeking more allies, England, Japan, Greece and Persia were contacted, but without strong ties to Germany (no embeassies!) they are reluctant to do anything. So far, all are neutral.

The opening shot of the war went to France, attacking and destroying defensless German laborers near Frankfurt, at the border. This was followed up with a push against the city itself by archers, but was smashed by German swordsmen.

The only other unit close to France was a lone swordsman, an elite unit noted for defending Stuttgart from barbarians in the past. Not expecting anything spectactular, these swordsmen were moved against Lyons to destroy roads and other improvements, harrassment and interdiction so to speak.

Unknown to Germany, Lyons was a major military base housing French archers, spearmen and warriors. A huge battle ensued, and a great leader was born in the fires of combat! Barbarossa!

Sensing early victory was more luck than anything else, a retreat was ordered. A new plan was devised, something very horrible for the untrustworthy French. A Great War Academy was begun in Berlin, and German scholars devoted all there efforts to developing new weapons of war. Most notably armored pikemen, and hopefully soon the best of Germany's fighters will take to horseback in this fashion. It will be anything but "chivalrous" for the French, I guarantee.

The Aztecs are a laughing stock, and will be dealt with later. They will be ignored in their little jungle kingdom for now, but eventualy Germany will take their dye for its own.

In the interim, tackling Egypt is a monumental task. Germany doesnt have the population of the "Pyramid Builders", full frontal assault is out of the question. Generals agreed a mobile defense of horsemen mixed with pikemen and swordsmen would be able to hold their masses of warriors and archers for the time being. They seem to have one strategy so far; capturing/destroying Munich and Nuremberg! We pray for the divine strength to stop them. The defense of Munich is holding, for now. A great battle rages non-stop outside its gates. Nuremberg is out of peril, and is rushing catapults to the battlefields in the South.

Our hopes hang on the destruction of the French army and the capture of Paris, its Colossus and Great Lighthouse, will take the wind out of Egypt's sail. With the completion of Barbarossa's three-legion strong army, it was marched back to Lyons and the city was raised! Nothing stands between Barbarossa and Paris!!!

Four legions of swordsmen and hordes of mounted warriors are sweeping into France in the North, capturing Chartres and raising another small town. The French are collapsing quicker than expected.

If Egypt does not quit after Paris, a long march to Thebes by Germany's Great Swordsmen may be in the cards...

Vyanvotts
Nov 24, 2001, 05:00 PM
wow....your are a little out numbered....post a screenshot of ur campaign

joespaniel
Nov 24, 2001, 06:24 PM
I wish I could!:hammer:

How do I do it? I would love to make a screenshot! I've tried right-clicking on the screen, and nothing happens except "terrain info". Is it in the windows start menu?

BIG update later tonight! http://community.theunderdogs.org/smiley/misc/francais.gif

Right now Im taking my girlfriend out for dinner, so you know how it goes...;)

Please let me know how to make that screenshot!

Ilspana
Nov 24, 2001, 08:00 PM
a great leader came from the battle with the greatest swordsman? Thats cool !! :)

Good luck in your war.

BTW, i dont know if this is true, but i think screenshots can be taken by pressing the print screen key. If this is the right hotkey to take a screenshot, the file should show up in a folder somewhere in your civ 3 directory.

Ohwell
Nov 24, 2001, 09:26 PM
Ive read your threads about the greatest swordsman in Germany, and you finnaly got a leader? that is cool. How many battles did it win? I am having a great war myself with me and the aztecs vs everyone else. My elite knights would not give me a GL!! PLease give an update:) .

narmox
Nov 24, 2001, 10:47 PM
press PrintScreen on your keyboard. That's all :)

actually, there's a little more... The screenshot is in the clipboard,
so you need to paste it somewhere, in Paint or Photoshop for example - preferrably
photoshop or another program that can convert to JPEG or PNG, otherwise
Paint will just save in .bmp and you'll end up with huge 3MB screenshots.

There are many free programs out there to that can do the conversion. It's that easy! :) This works anywhere in Windows, it's not civ3-specific.

Ah, I just wish my YAGT game had seen such a great swordsman.. Haven't got any leaders yet :( plenty of elites who all died in battle, trying to get one :lol:

Knight-Dragon
Nov 24, 2001, 11:02 PM
Glad to see you are enjoying yourself so much, joe. :D Maybe you can attached your game as a zipped file so we can all have a clearer look.

Well in my present regent game, the insidious Germans (:lol: )actually demanded the computer tech fr me (the mightiest of all BTW) while they were already at war with 4 other civs. Well, they are regretting it now ......
Dragged the other 3 civs to war on them and sent in my mighty fleets of destroyers and battleships to pulverize their puny navy and colonial cities in the south. While my armies of tanks, artillery, mech inf aided by bombers took out their other colonial cities on an island further south .... Well, the Germans don't have rubber anymore .....
And going to ship my victorious forces to the next island. All in all, Germany is having a VERY bad day. :lol: I even took out their one battleship with one of my battleships with no loss to hps. Must be a training ship for future battleship crews ....

joespaniel
Nov 24, 2001, 11:02 PM
The war goes on...

German knights trained in Cologne, Essen and Hannover force-marched to the front around Nuremberg in time to blunt another mass attack from Egypt. This time the Egyptians brought veteran spearmen and archers, and it was close.

In France, Barabarossa's Army of swordsmen fought side by side with several German horsemen as the French launched a last ditch offensive to repel the Teutonic hordes away from Paris. The French cities of Orleans and Marseille fell to teutonic steel. Only with some tricky manouvering did the German armies survive at all in this period of the war.

To add fuel to the fire, Japan and Greece both sided with Russia in declaring war against Germany. Persia soon followed. 9 nations at war with Germany at once! Fortunately only France and Egypt can attack us directly, the others have a large ocean to cross.

Russian galleys appeared off Germany's east coast and a naval battle ensued. Russia lost its fleet of three against Germany's four galleys for the loss of one German ship. The remaining three now patrol the Russian coast in case another fleet shows itself.

Another battle began outside the last French city near their capitol, drawing in all German reserves of horsemen and swordsmen. In frustration, I threw a veteran swordsman at their city. A defender spearman died. So I threw my last elite swordsman (another one, not the one in Barbarossa's army) at them. The city fell! Another Great Leader was born! Richtoffen!!!

Seeing a means to end this sinking quagmire of a war, this new leader was rushed to Cologne, were a heroic epic was being built to commemorate our earlier victory at Lyons. Three veteran knights met Richtoffen there, another Army was formed and set out immeadiately for France.

Just as this happened, a new massive Egyptian force started making contact with German horsemen in the mountain area just outside Munich. It was huge! And all reserves were committed to finishing off France!

I considered calling back Richtoffen's Army and sending it to Munich, but then a small brainstorm hit. Barbarossa swung south away from Paris, and engaged their left flank. They took the bait! The whole Egyptian Army swung north and moved into France away from Nuremberg! It worked! Munich was saved!

They chased him to Orleans, where he garrisoned with two elite swordsmen units, and fended off their advance force and French archer attacks. Once a front was established, a handfull of German horsemen and warriors joined the two swordsmen and Barbarossa headed for Paris.

Two swordsmen had battered their way up to the French capitol with two catapults in tow. All four knights that started the attack with them were gone, lost in the advance. Fighting everywhere was desperate, no quarter given. The catapults bombarded Paris without mercy, killing many of its population.

Then everything happened at once.

The troops at Orleans fended off wave after wave of attackers trying to stop the siege just beyond at Paris (I guess thats where they wanted to go ???). The Orleans garrison was exhausted and teetering on collapse.

The Egyptians contacted us and demanded we surrender. We told them to burn in Hades. They attacked again.

At Paris, both swordsmen were battered to a third of their strength by French archers attacking out of the city. Then Barbarossa arrived. Then Richtoffen. The catapults fired once more.

Every German unit around Paris attacked in sucession, the two swordsmen were lost! Barbarossa was sucessful in destrying a phalanx but at great cost. The last unit, Richtoffen's knights, smashed the last defending spearman, and entered the City of Lights victoriously! We conquered their prized capitol! France was finished!!!

A great day of celebration rang out from all corners of Germany! The War Academy in Berlin was finished and the German Nation entered a Golden Age! We were the Gods of the Earth at that moment!

Almost on cue, Aztec Jaguar Warriors appeared near Munich asking for a truce. Drunk with victory, Bismark showed mercy on their cute little civilization and a treaty was granted.

What came next was almost a shock. The Egyptians asked for peace! At first they demended alot of cocessions, but feeling emboldened by our sucess, we gave them two options. Peace with no strings or a bloody plague of Teutonic steel. They opted for the former.

Thus the great Egyptian army in France stopped in its tracks. Pikemen and other reinforcements were arriving to garrison our new conquests, so a force of knights and the two armies began to march to the last two French towns.

Message arrived from the overseas antagonists. Most wanted out of the war, but demanded tribute. Only neutral England was given gold, to repay their wisdom in not siding with arrogant Lincoln. Germany remains at war with Russia, Japan, America, Greece, Persia and Zululand. For now.

Once France is annihilated, a near perfect border splitting the continent in half will exist, giving Germany the North to itself. Our plans are to focus on our domestic well being by building markets and temples to compliment our libraries. The German people are feeling "industrious" at the moment, as well they should.

It took many years to quell the "stinking resistance" in Paris, but order is now established. It will be built up to its former glory, as tribute to the tenacity of the French. But it will be German forevermore.

Massive numbers of knights will guard our southern border cities, in case Egypt returns to "do business".

Once Germany is more well established as an economic power, we will deal with the Americans and their lackeys, one way or another.

I hope everyone who reads this story will enjoy it as much as I did playing it. Long live Germany! And a Merry Christmas to all! :lol:

joespaniel
Nov 24, 2001, 11:22 PM
I'm off to make screenshots! Wish me luck!

To OHWELL - The Great Swordsman won four battles in this game.

One against a Gepid encampment,
one against a dozen Gepid horsemen that attacked Stuttgart making him elite during the onslaught (he had help from a German horseman in that battle,btw),
one against French archers attacking Frankfurt
and the final one taking a French city and spawning Barbarossa.

Then he joined Barbarossa's Army.

The Army won so many battles I dont even have a clue how many!:D

To Narmox - This is actually the third game where I got a "Great Swordsman", meaning a real bad-@$$ elite one that beats up everything it sees.:lol:

I've only gotten Great Leaders in two games. My origional one just never got lucky and spawned a GL. This makes up for it in my mind.:goodjob:

OK - Screenshots! I will do my best.

joespaniel
Nov 24, 2001, 11:50 PM
I dont know how to make the screenshots into JPEG, I only have paint.

Heres the zipped screenshots, if someone could JPEG them and repost I would be gratefull.

- Barbarrossa and Richtoffen march toward the last French towns as the dazed Egyptian army looks on.

joespaniel
Nov 24, 2001, 11:51 PM
The small but victorious German fleet near Russia.

joespaniel
Nov 24, 2001, 11:53 PM
Reconstruction begins around Munich and Nuremberg, completely devastated by the Egyptian army.

narmox
Nov 25, 2001, 12:13 AM
I'll convert them :)

joespaniel
Nov 25, 2001, 01:09 AM
Thank you.:goodjob:

I used to have a trial copy of photoshop, but it expired!:crazyeyes :D

I enjoyed your YAGT thread, narmox. Is there going to be more?

joespaniel
Nov 25, 2001, 01:27 AM
Richtoffen arrives at Cologne to form the second army.

joespaniel
Nov 25, 2001, 01:29 AM
Aztecs come groveling

joespaniel
Nov 25, 2001, 01:31 AM
Barbarossa saves the day! Those are stacks of 4 and 5 Egyptian soldiers under the spearmen!

EDIT: These are from the auto-save file. Enjoy!

narmox
Nov 25, 2001, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by joespaniel
Thank you.:goodjob:

I used to have a trial copy of photoshop, but it expired!:crazyeyes :D


there are other programs to convert.. At least I hope so. Dunno, I don't use windows for graphics stuff.. The default image viewer in BeOS can save to any other format, and Linux has a bunch of tools freely available. But I'm sure if you look on download.com of winfiles.com you'll find something. :)


I enjoyed your YAGT thread, narmox. Is there going to be more?

thanks, and yes, there will be more. Projects and homework are getting in the way right now, I haven't played civ3 since thursday night!!! AAAAACK :(

Ilspana
Nov 25, 2001, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by joespaniel
A Great War Academy was begun in Berlin, and German scholars devoted all there efforts to developing new weapons of war.

wait a minute... Doesnt the military academy small wonder require the advance military tradition? from the units that you're using it doesnt sound like you're far along enough to start building one..

Ohwell
Nov 25, 2001, 01:04 PM
Damn modems here in Germany, Cant wait till I get back to the states, i have DSL:) . Got cut off 5 times in a minute:mad: . These damn month long buisness trips really suck. I did bring along Civ3:D . Anyway, you could go to photosuite and get another demo, then pirate it to get it permanently, I don't quite know how though. My current war is looking bright. The Aztecs are more powerful than I suspected, they killed England in about 6 turns. Meanwhile, I was taking it to France and Zululand with extreme prejudice. France is falling easy, though a couple of pockets of heavy resistance near New Lyons delayed me for a while. Hope your war goes for the better!

joespaniel
Nov 25, 2001, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Ilspana


wait a minute... Doesnt the military academy small wonder require the advance military tradition? from the units that you're using it doesnt sound like you're far along enough to start building one..

Berlin built Sun Tzu's War Academy, the Great Wonder. Not the military academy small wonder.

EDIT: Sorry for the confusion, my mistake. In civ3 its Sun Tzu's Art of War . Im still calling it the Academy.:rolleyes:

joespaniel
Nov 25, 2001, 01:46 PM
Barbarossa and Ricthoffen demolished all but one last French city which is somewhere in the northern tundra. France has been defeated, never to rise again! We will spare their last city if they renounce all future agression against Germany. This may or may not be a sound policy, but we never asked for war with France to begin with, and are not genocidal.

On the Home Front:

German settlers founded the new cities of Danzig (near Konigsberg), Mannheim, Augsburg and Salzburg. Our empire is growing both in size and prosperity. The Golden Age of Germany continues.

The Sistine Chapel is nearly complete in Hannover, and universities are under construction in Berlin, Cologne, Essen, Leipzig and Frankfurt. Our scientist are exploring the possibility of navigating by the stars. If this proves to be true, a great observatory will be built in Berlin.

German knights are everywhere. We are amongst the most powerfull nations on Earth now. An invasion force is assembling at Hamburg to sail for Russia and take the war to their back yard. All attempts at rational dialogue with Catherine the Great have been futile. She insists on treating Germany as an inferior, and claims she can handle anything we can throw at her.

We shall see.

The Aztecs took arms with Germany again, prompted by Persia and a small battle took place near Munich. German horsemen dispatched some Jaguar warriors in short order.

Egyptian troops taking their time leaving German occupied France were asked to leave, and Egypt complied. Sensing a receptiveness on the part of Cleopatra, we offered a right of passage treaty. Her counter-offer was that we include knowledge of Theology. We uped the ante and asked for an alliance against France and Montezuma, and 50 gold.

Germany and Egypt are now partners! A road to Egypt is now being built in the hopes that German furs and wines can be traded for Egyptian ivory and incense. Cleopatra was given a tribute to solidify our new friendship. She has yet to be dishonest in her dealings, so we will proceed with a clear slate.

Ohwell
Nov 25, 2001, 07:50 PM
You still at war with Americans, if I am correct? So am I. I just today destroyed the French heartland, they only houve outlying backwater colonies, I think i'll let them live to see tomorrow.

I found the Greeks the turn after on a series of small islands. They have the entire worlds supply of silk! I offered them ivory and furs, but they said no. Feeling strong, as I was, i sent 2 Galleons filled with veteran and elite Cavalry, and set siege upon Thermopylae, took the city with little wounded. I had moved all the units that I sent there into the city to act as occupatoinal forces, and the next turn, the damn Greeks assimilated the city back! I gave up on that front.

My best ally, the aztecs, are beginning to build masses of armies, my spy tells me they have 8. I cant even build any yet. I hope they will keep their word until I get Replaceable Parts. I will cream them like the French. After getting Nationalism, I signed MPP's with the Germans and Iroquois, they will prove to be valuable allies against Aztecs.

Ohwell
Nov 25, 2001, 08:19 PM
The ENglish, Zulu, French, and Aztecs have signed MPP's. Like wise, me, Germany, and the Americans have done the same. I had also just had MPP's with England, as my war was over. The only war was Between the Greeks and the Japanese, which has been going on before I knew them. The world was quiet, I had know idea of the war that was to come.

The Aztecs, my ally for a long time, attacked Germany,pulling me into the war. The Aztecs pulled the French and Zulu into the conflict. The English heard Zulu's cry and declared war on the Triple Entente (Russia, Germany, And America). The Axis powers,(England, Zululand, France, And Aztecs) were far superior in tech and money. My Russian Cossacks that had served me well for only 20 turns, had fallen silently to the new Zulu tanks. Germany lost 2 cities to the Aztecs. America's Ironclad Fleet had ben sunk by the English. It seems there is no hope. The battle rages on! A bloody stalemate between the worlds superpowers has begun!

Ohwell
Nov 25, 2001, 08:38 PM
I just stole tech from the zulu, allowing me to produce tanks. Hovever, before I could celebrate over my glorious tanks, the English got Flight, and gave it to all their allies! The bombers are making my small navy sitting ducks for even the aztec triremes! Though I had a very small assault army ready because my cossack storage city was taken(Yaroslavl), I had new tanks rolling off the production lines, attacking one by one at the rapidly advancing Aztec Army, slowly but surely taking ground. I had realized that in St. Petersburg, there was a Military Acadamy, I had forgotten I had even got a Great Leader! I started work on am army, and when it was finished, I put 3 Tanks inside.

The Russian First Army was Complete! It was advancing along side the American Cavalry, on their march toward Nottingham. The Americans has sustained heavy losses on the way, roughly 3/4 of their cavalry was demolished, but my tanks rode steadfastly towards Nottingham with nothing more than a scratch. A great battle had begun near Minsk, and the army was recalled.

The Aztecs, French, and English were fortified in the hills, bombarding the city with artillery. Infantry were capturing workers, and Cavalry attacking all that was near. I was desperate. I called the order to mobilize! The Russian Steppes were churning out unit after unit, but all died in the face of the enemy. Minsk was lost. The order was given to begin the draft.

joespaniel
Nov 25, 2001, 08:48 PM
I know how this feels.:rolleyes:

Ohwell
Nov 25, 2001, 08:57 PM
Hmm, Perhaps I will try to get the greeks and Japanese on my side. I really like Minsk, it had the pyramids:cry: . My best efforts are being put in to liberate it. (Terrible News, Sire! Minsk has been captured by the evil English! They have stolen 243 gold from its vaults!):cry: :cry:

narmox
Nov 25, 2001, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Ohwell
Hmm, Perhaps I will try to get the greeks and Japanese on my side. I really like Minsk, it had the pyramids:cry: . My best efforts are being put in to liberate it. (Terrible News, Sire! Minsk has been captured by the evil English! They have stolen 243 gold from its vaults!):cry: :cry:

yow I just hate when that happens!

Ohwell
Nov 25, 2001, 09:14 PM
Ive just liberated Minsk, and my army is elite! The army was sent to raze Nottingham, and did so with Christmas glee:D . The English surrendered, giving me Flight as part of the deal. The tables have turned to the Triple Entente, having gained a foothold on the Aztec forces protecting France. France succumbed to the Great Army, Which consists of 1 Tank army, 5 tanks, 3 artillery, 7 infantry and numerous German/American Forces. The Great Army is doing a sweeping motion across the continent, annhialating all opposition in its way. (This is very wierd, the Germans and Americans Armies are following mine) The war is really looking good for me.

narmox
Nov 26, 2001, 12:12 AM
go germany!!!!!!!! :goodjob:

(no I'm not german I'm canadian, I just seem to like Germany in civIII
oh and the Greeks too :) )

joespaniel
Nov 26, 2001, 01:07 AM
The final phase of the conquest of France. Barbarossa and Ricthoffen's Armies move toward the last French cities as the dazed Egyptian troops look on. The three stacks of Egyptians number 7 total units, all that is left of the 20 they came to France with.

joespaniel
Nov 26, 2001, 01:10 AM
The small but victorious German fleet guards against another Russian naval attack.

joespaniel
Nov 26, 2001, 01:12 AM
The reconstruction around Munich and Nuremberg progresses. Nearly all improvements were destroyed by the Egyptians.

joespaniel
Nov 26, 2001, 01:31 AM
Big thank you to narmox for e-mailing the screenshots back to me.

I am going surfing for a free downloadable version of photoshop.:D

narmox
Nov 26, 2001, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by joespaniel
Big thank you to narmox for e-mailing the screenshots back to me.

I am going surfing for a free downloadable version of photoshop.:D

hehe. well, you're not limited to Photoshop...
http://www.winfiles.com
http://www.download.com

oh wow winfiles.com just redirects to download.com now when you go to "Windows files". Man, it changed a lot from 3 years ago! :D

http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0,10151,0-10077-106-0-1-0,00.html?tag=dir whew more than 20 pages of image editing software. have fun! :lol:

Ohwell
Nov 26, 2001, 04:08 PM
Well, hows your game goin, Joespaniel? It sounds like its doing very well, and sounds like lots of fun. My war is over, the french are dead and the English are my , oh how do you say, Commonwealth, :lol: . Peace is restored, and the Japanese-Greek wars are over also, I think I will try for a Domination victory, with the histograph as my backup. I love Civ3!!!!

You might also try MGI Photoshop, though I don't know if ot works, my screenshot key doesn't work.

joespaniel
Nov 26, 2001, 07:10 PM
Thanks guys. I will download one tonight. Appreciate the links.

I have not played my German game since the last post, but the invasion of Russia (actualy just a raiding party) will be on my Christmas list.:D

I have been playing a sucession game, and hope to start another with Lkendter.

If I dont hear from him tonight, Russia is going to get it!

I will have to really build up to hurt the Americans, who started the 300 years war on my continent. As far as I know, they are still fighting the Iroquois, my faithful ally.

That reminds me, Id better give them some military aid. I would prefer to keep all tech to myself because I think Im in the lead now, by a hair. I hope theyre happy with gold.

If raiding some Russian towns works out and a peace results, I may sail for America way to the south and raid them too.

Ohwell
Nov 26, 2001, 07:13 PM
Ah, yes. I saw you on his next succesion game thread. I really want to play the Germans, I love their panzers! Hopefully we can get a couple more players.

joespaniel
Nov 27, 2001, 11:34 AM
Barbarossa saves the day!

Ohwell
Nov 27, 2001, 03:54 PM
YAAAAAAYYYYY:D :D :D GO GERMANY!!!! GO BARBAROSSA!!! GO RICHTOFFEN!!!!

IronMan2055
Oct 05, 2005, 04:25 PM
this story looked interesting why did it end:confused:

Icmancin
Oct 12, 2005, 05:11 AM
I wouldn't bump 4 year old threads. If you really wanted this to continue PM the creator after checkin his last activity date.

Lord_Iggy
Oct 12, 2005, 08:51 AM
Yeah, I keep thinking that a new story has popped up overnight.

Dachs
Oct 12, 2005, 02:36 PM
Wow, same here. I thought that this was a new thread and was about to post to that effect. Oops.

IronMan2055
Oct 12, 2005, 03:39 PM
very sorry:(

Soaring Tiger
Oct 06, 2007, 06:39 PM
Ignore this post