Civ II has the Welsh but Civ III doesn't. Civ IV should definitely have them.

Wales and her people have had an awesome effect on the World. America was "discovered" by Prince Madog of Wales in 1170.

The Welsh have colonised parts of South America, particularly Patagonia where Welsh is still spoken today.

There are high numbers of Welsh descendents in Pennsylvania and other industrial/mining states of the USA.

Several of the Presidents of the USA are of Welsh descent, including Lincoln.

Elvis Presley is of Welsh descent - no problems with keeping the masses entertained then!

Wales has successfully fought wars against the English.

The "=" symbol was invented by a Welshman - what more do you need to know?

we also hav you to thank for robbie savage :(

Though I have no real preference of Civilizations to put in since modding is easy, I must say I support the Welsh. My name, Keith, is Welsh. Or so I've heard.

Scottish and Swedish are better :-)

Civ II has the Welsh but Civ III doesn't. Civ IV should definitely have them.

Wales and her people have had an awesome effect on the World. America was "discovered" by Prince Madog of Wales in 1170.

The Welsh have colonised parts of South America, particularly Patagonia where Welsh is still spoken today.

There are high numbers of Welsh descendents in Pennsylvania and other industrial/mining states of the USA.

Several of the Presidents of the USA are of Welsh descent, including Lincoln.

Elvis Presley is of Welsh descent - no problems with keeping the masses entertained then!

Wales has successfully fought wars against the English.

The "=" symbol was invented by a Welshman - what more do you need to know?


Did they have a huge empire? Did they influence/change the world? DId they conquer many lands and people? Did they control a vast trade network. The Wlesh are undeserving; sorry.

we also hav you to thank for robbie savage :(


You're welcome :thumbsup:

Perhaps he could be the Leaderhead :lol:

The "=" symbol was invented by a Welshman - what more do you need to know?

Scotland ain't in it and we invented the telephone, the tv. the adhesive postage stamp and Penicillin to name a few so we own Wales in the invention category.

What wars did Wales fight against the English and when (I'm not Flaming, I'm just curious)

Scotland for Civ 4 :goodjob:

I guess that when they put the Austrians AND the germans/preussians (both allemani) in the game together they should also consider the welsh, scottish, irish, gauls etc. But until then: isn't it enough with the generic celts and the possibilites to mod the game?
I mean the scandinavians get by fine without a (five) three-split... plus theres no Lapps.
There's no slavs in the game except for russia who's the bigger one, and frankly, thats ok.

Scotland ain't in it and we invented the telephone, the tv. the adhesive postage stamp and Penicillin to name a few so we own Wales in the invention category.

What wars did Wales fight against the English and when (I'm not Flaming, I'm just curious)

Scotland for Civ 4 :goodjob:

In the 13th century the Welsh were kicking some butt against Edward I who was looking to wipe them off the face of the Earth. The tactics developed fighting the badass Welsh laid the groundwork for the following fisticuffs in Scotland, Ireland and France. Welsh guerilla warfare forced the English to get good at fighting, unfortunately for the aforementioned countries.

In the early 1400s Owain Glyndwr led Welsh forces to kick some serious English butt. The Welsh held territory all the way up to the source of the Mersey. They have since given it back for obvious reasons!

Henry Tudor was born in Pembroke, Wales and led a force of Welsh, English and Irish through Wales all the way to Leicester where he smacked Richard III upside the head and became King of England etc - therefore, the Tudor Dynasty was begun by a Welshman and all his offspring - Henry VIII, Mary Tudor, Edward and Elizabeth I were all Welsh!

Did you know that the first distillery set up in America which was also the first bourbon distillery was set up in Kentucky by a family from Dale, Pembrokeshire?
Jack Daniels was from a Welsh family?
Several of the early US Presidents were of Welsh descent.
During the American Civil War, the South (ah say boy) was headed by a Welshman, Jefferson Davis.
Mount Everest is named after a Welshman.
Pennsylvania was originally going to be called New Wales. The English didn’t like the idea of that and named it after the guy who wanted to call it New Wales, William Penn.

The Welsh have had a significant impact on the World as have the Jocks.

Yeah! They even got the Prince of Wales too! ;)

You could have a flavour system so that the Celts could be named Scots, Welsh, Picts, Irish, Boii, Briton... or the Slavs be named Russian, Moravian, Serb, Polish, Ukrainian. This could allow you to play "your" nation or tribe without have hundreds of identical civs. Also the idea of nations is only a hundred and fifty years old. The nation state is a phenomenon of the 20th century, in the 19th century and before you had empires and kingdoms, in ancient times city states (which Civ III simulates very well).

You could have a flavour system so that the Celts could be named Scots, Welsh, Picts, Irish, Boii, Briton... or the Slavs be named Russian, Moravian, Serb, Polish, Ukrainian. This could allow you to play "your" nation or tribe without have hundreds of identical civs. Also the idea of nations is only a hundred and fifty years old. The nation state is a phenomenon of the 20th century, in the 19th century and before you had empires and kingdoms, in ancient times city states (which Civ III simulates very well).


Great Idea :goodjob: Playing as your nation/civ/country/tribe makes the game more personal and really adds to the engaging nature of the game. You could then really take it personally when you're invaded and enjoy smiting the aggressor all the more.

Yeah! They even got the Prince of Wales too! ;)

Yeah, but the current Prince of Wales is German/English/Greek. :mad: not a bit Welsh. :rolleyes:

I think we would quite happily trade him for King Olaf The Hairy :D :p

In the 13th century the Welsh were kicking some butt against Edward I who was looking to wipe them off the face of the Earth. The tactics developed fighting the badass Welsh laid the groundwork for the following fisticuffs in Scotland, Ireland and France. Welsh guerilla warfare forced the English to get good at fighting, unfortunately for the aforementioned countries.

In the early 1400s Owain Glyndwr led Welsh forces to kick some serious English butt. The Welsh held territory all the way up to the source of the Mersey. They have since given it back for obvious reasons!

You seem to have omitted the (although you did infer it) detail that eventually Edward smashed the Welsh and built ruddy great castles all over the place. They've never succesfully fought back since then.

It's interesting how a lot of Sotuh Welsh feel closer to the English.....no doubt because a load of them ARE English (through descent).

I think we would quite happily trade him for King Olaf The Hairy :D :p

I think we would as well. You think you've got it bad, him being your Prince, we're going to have him as King.....

You seem to have omitted the (although you did infer it) detail that eventually Edward smashed the Welsh and built ruddy great castles all over the place. They've never succesfully fought back since then.

It's interesting how a lot of Sotuh Welsh feel closer to the English.....no doubt because a load of them ARE English (through descent).


Edward smashed the Welsh but that was prior to Owain Glyndwr's rampage into England. I would say that that was a fairly successful, yet limited, fight back.

Those castles are awesome and indicate the fear the English had of any further Welsh uprisings.

The English carpetbaggers of which you speak are still outnumbered by proud Welshmen (and women) who know their history and their historical oppressors.

Edward smashed the Welsh but that was prior to Owain Glyndwr's rampage into England. I would say that that was a fairly successful, yet limited, fight back.

I got him mixed with that Llewlyn guy.

The English carpetbaggers of which you speak are still outnumbered by proud Welshmen (and women) who know their history and their historical oppressors.

Now that just plain hurts to see you say that. We are NOT oppressors. People seem to forget that the English also suffered under the rulers that did the 'oppressing'. Some Irish guy once had a dig at the Victorians for 'oppressing' the Irish - yet what nationality were the people working up chimneys and in the workhouses?

P.S: I'd much rather just have the Celts for the time being. You'd have to add the Irish and Scots as well, and given there are so many European civs anyway.....

PPS: America was 'discovered' by Leif Eriksson in 1000 AD.

Look... i'm all for the adding of new civ's, but i cant stand this unhealthy nationalistic ferver that arises when trying to "beef up" the importance of every lil' european tribe/country.
"-The welsh found america! -Nooo, the picts i say! -Nooo, the Poles are the greatest civ ever!!! -Nooooo, the Huns!!!!"

"....-Noooo, the Angles!!! -Noooo, the saxons!!!! -Nooooo, the normands!!! -Noooo, the Etruscans!!! -Nooooooooooo!!!!"

... i mean, people, c'mon...

Well here's some non-nationalistic reasons for not having the Welsh:

They never had a great empire...or any empire
They never made a great mark through their culture
Many would forgive you for not knowing the names of their most famous people...Lloyd George and Tom Jones are all I can think of
They're already covered by the Celts

But I do think the Welsh Longbowmen would kick ass if they were in Civ4 :)

No Welsh. Britons or something, maybe, to reflect the culture of the British Isles as a whole. You could have King Arthur as a leader. But no Welsh. This is a game about civilizations, not every tiny little country in the world. If you're going to include the Welsh then you're going to have to break up all the other civs into their constituents and represent groups that are currently only represented by a notable nation, eg the Iroqouios will have to be replaced by about a dozen different native nations and so on. If you want Wales, mod it in. That's what the editor is there for. If you want a culture to represent pre-Roman British Isles, I'm all for it, but I'd pick the Irish before I picked the Welsh as a representative, and I'd rather call them a more encompassing name like the "Britons" to represent them all. I have nothing against Wales - last name Griffiths in fact - but it's absurd to include all the small nations in the world in a game called "civilization". There's no such thing as "Welsh civilization". There is Welsh culture, a Welsh nation and so on, but its part of a larger civilization (Gaelic or Celtic Britain), and if we do that every civ in the game is going to have to be broken down and a bunch of others included. The Iroquois will become the Iroquois, the Cree, the Blackfoot, the Huron, the Algonquin, the Apache, the Cherokee, the Haida, the Navajo, and about a dozen more. The Greek will become the Athenians, the Spartans, the Macedonians, the Myceneans, the Minoans, the Trojans, the Medeans, the Lydians, and so on. By the time they include everything that everybody would want, make up animations and UUs for them all, and do all the research to make everyone happy, the game will cost you $500. That's why people do mods, so the more specific things they want can be in the game.

Admittedly I was surprised that only the English were in.....but then 'Britain' is only a political invention, and what many foreign people perceive to be 'British' is mostly 'English'.

The Ancient Britons were Celts. You could do the original Britons, but then they weren't too great to be painted over by the Celts.

maybe if we ignore this thread, it will disappear into the many other pages of threads that i have never gotten to, and probably never will :-) hehe

...and what many foreign people perceive to be 'British' is mostly 'English'.


Yeah, there's no quicker way to get skinned alive than to go up to a Scotsman and call him English

for me england will always top britain :) u can hav england or britain bt no way wales

Well, being the biggest in terms of size, population, and economy are pretty much the determining factors.

And let's have no bestiality jokes involving sheep.....;)

England will never top Britain. Britain came into beign in the 1700's when England merged with Scotland Wales and Ireland. So everything done after that (you know, biggest Empire, kick ass navy, etc etc etc) was done by the British. Everything done before that was English, and I think what we did in the 18th 19th and (early) 20th century beats the English of the 15th 16th and 17th century (hmmmm, sounds a bit bias, my bad)

'Britain' is a political tool. There is NO such thing as 'British', even if people genuinely think they are 'British'. Just because an Act in 1707 says that the nations are now one (and with Ireland in 1800) it doesn't make people suddenly become a different culture. Look at today: Welsh people still say they are Welsh, the Scottish are Scots, the Cockneys are still Cockneys, the Geordies.....and so on. 'Britain' is just the arena on which all these different people can make their mark on the world.