What kind of new units should be made for Civ 4? I think they should make a unit called sniper :sniper: which would have 8 atk and 7 def. It's special abillity would be like the submarine, but on land. What new units do you think should be made? :confused:

I don't really like that idea that much. Way too overpowered. And what if an opponent moves to the sniper's location? Will war start?

I don't think many more should or will be added to the main game.

They should have a look at what stats the units have, I mean, were Archers really offensive weapons? My guess is they were more defensive then offensive.

But of course, gameplay should be more important :)

I don't want them wasting too much time on new units. That can wait for either mods or expansions. I'd rather they delivered a solid set of improved rules and functions, and worry about extra units later. You can always mod them in or include them in expansions.

They should do something about Chariots though. There were the main force of many an army in ancient times, yet as soon as you get Horseback riding they disappear. Where's the sense in that? If anything, people probably learned to ride on the backs of horses before attaching small vehicles to them.

They should do something about Chariots though. There were the main force of many an army in ancient times, yet as soon as you get Horseback riding they disappear. Where's the sense in that? If anything, people probably learned to ride on the backs of horses before attaching small vehicles to them.

Well, it doesn't seem to make sense, but that's actually how it went.

Before the Iron Age, the role of cavalry on the battlefield was largely performed by light chariots. The power of mobility given by mounted units was recognized early on, but was offset by the difficulty of raising large forces and by the inability of horses (then mostly small) to carry heavy armor.

The chariot was first adopted by nomadic or semi-nomadic peoples on the boundaries of civilization in conflicts with civilized peoples. The chariot was quickly adopted by settled peoples both as a military technology and an object of ceremonial status. Pharaoh rides a chariot into battle in the Egyptian New Kingdom, just as the Sun rides a chariot over the sky in Egyptian mythology.

Chariots were quickly superseded by horses when selective breeding resulted in horses able to carry the weight of a fighting man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalry

What they don't mention too is that chariots can only be used on flat terrain, but cavalry is much more adaptable.

Snipers are a vanishingly small component of modern militaries, serving as much as scouts as in the way of long range riflemen. It makes o sense to have a separate sniper unit.

I meant that the idea of riding on a horse's back probably came before the chairot idea however it was not used for military uses for the reasons you gave. I still think it's pretty stupid that you lose them so quickly. Not everyone switched from chariots to horses when they became able to. Horseback riding should come later in the Ancient Era, and Chivalry only a littler bit later in the Medieval Era, to avoid having them so close together.

I don't want them wasting too much time on new units. That can wait for either mods or expansions. I'd rather they delivered a solid set of improved rules and functions, and worry about extra units later. You can always mod them in or include them in expansions.

Yep, I totally agree. We don't need new units. But we could improve existing ones. :p

Yep, I totally agree. We don't need new units. But we could improve existing ones. :p

Yep, I agree with that too. Especially just reworking some of the general workings behind units and combat as a whole, because it would be difficult to do so after release.

@Spatula:

Horseback riding should just be renamed to something more appropriate, like mounted warfare.

And you're right about units like chariots having too brief a period in the game. Chariots used to be an awesome unit in earlier incarnations of the game, to get rid of the other guy fast if you were on a small island. But even then they didn't get their full 15 minutes of fame. I'm in favour of a game that gets a better balance between the modern and ancient eras (or whatever you want to call them in a game without eras). As it is now, the endgame is just too much work and units are around too long, while the early game there is just not enough to do and units are outdated before they really see much use.

Maybe we could make horsemen and chariots an option instead of having chariots upgrade to horsemen. Horsemen would have 2 attack and 1 defense while chariots have 1 attack and 2 defense. Both of them would upgrade to the next unit instead of the chariot to the horseman.

Makes sense to me.

That is a great idea AA-battery, I never thought of that.

Also make UUs able to upgrade. I hate it when I have to go to the effort of building a whole new half of my army because my UU won't upgrade like the normal unit does.

In the chariot vs horse thing, if anything, the chariot should have a lower defence, as there are more places where things can render the chariot inoperative, and it doesn't have any more armour than normal horsemen.

Of course, this also assumes a model where attack and defence values have been multiplied by a factor in order to provide for more meaningful differences in the early game.

I think the units are alright as theyt are in Conquest, and that they should stay the same.

Now I know this is a bit of an old thread but since it has returned anyway:

-Helicopters that can pick units up not just set them down.

-Simplified unit tree no defense only units and attack units just, non resource unit upgrades to a resource unit. Then of course your offensive things like cavalry tanks planes tanks...

-Unit graphics to appear like an army/navy/airforce like total war. 15-30 SMALL (half current size or less) animated characters in a group moving in formation.

Also, there needs to be the ability to launch helicopters from aircraft carriers, whether it is on a new carrier or an existing carrier.

I think there should be a unit between the musketman and rifleman. Fusilier maybe ?

I agree chariots are worth a longer period.
But indeed it is true they were replaced by horsemen. Riding a horse being more difficult than éleading" them.
One first step could be to NOT have them follow one another in the tech-tree (or horseback riding requiring other techs)

Uh, it's not an online action game.

SEALS/Special Forces is already covered by either Modern Paratroopers or Espionage missions.

Tactical Espionage missions would be something new. Like poison that unit there.

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New units
What kind of new units should be made for Civ 4? I think they should make a unit called sniper which would have 8 atk and 7 def. It's special abillity would be like the submarine, but on land. What new units do you think should be made?
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I think there should be a unit between the musketman and rifleman. Fusilier maybe ?

I agree chariots are worth a longer period.
But indeed it is true they were replaced by horsemen. Riding a horse being more difficult than éleading" them.
One first step could be to NOT have them follow one another in the tech-tree (or horseback riding requiring other techs)

Horses weren't naturally big enough to ride... but several of them could pull a man in a chariot. They were bred to be bigger and got big enough to ride.

I think the tech enabling chariots should be a prerequisite for horsemen, but there should be techs in between. I miss chariots... *sigh* good old original Civ, the Chariot was by far the best unit.

Horses weren't naturally big enough to ride... but several of them could pull a man in a chariot. They were bred to be bigger and got big enough to ride.


http://members.tripod.com/~White_Arabian/history.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_horse

4600 BC horse domesticated, initially as a food animal
4500 BC earliest evidene of horse tooth wear that is characteritistic of a bit.
3500 BC earliest wheels
2000 BC earliest physical evidence of chariots (burial site)

So there you have it. The earliest evidence in favour of riding clearly predates the earliest evidence of chariots.

It is also known that the earliest mounted soldiers did NOT fight from horseback, but used horses only for transport.

MIGRANT:
I think the idea of migrants could be implemented. they fonction like that, after the discoverage of Industrialization:
It's a unit that have the possibility join to cities of other civs, this mean.
- It couldn't found a city.
- It generates automatically in a city with overpopulation.
- If migrants ratio have at same level for 25 turns they're been assimilated.
- A city with 15% of migrants could been see, like a Investigate City act, but permanently.
- By the time we have the possibility of take that city if the migrants of a civ its 3/4 of the population of that city, and there a continuous territory.
- The civ hostage have more problems to make war to civ of migrants.
- The ties between that two civs are more strong than to others civs, or at least in that city.
- Trade is also more profitable.
- Ultimately, if the civs belong the same cultural group then the possibility of the appearence of a political block is more easier.
- The major and much rich civ could be undertaken inside by migrants, or city by city.
- This could cap the snawball effect.
- The mother nation receive some gold.
- It act like a culture unit.
- The migrants in a hostage city could growth by himself, without need a new migrant, depending on the ratio # migrants/total population of a city.
Example: when migrants are 10% of a city population the next 7th grouth of the city is a new migrant. 2/3 of 10.

COLONIST:
Colonist is like a setler who could be loaded on a ship. It makes available with Astronomy.
- So thereford the settlers couldn´t be loaded to a ship, and may retain at the massland they start the game. This handicap for civ starting location on an island could be overthroom by a unit to seafaring civs.
- The colonists have same diferences in culture from the motherland wich allow by time appart from the original civ.
- It could have ties more close than to other civ but they are not the same. This means that only the city in same massland and in a continuous territory belong to the some civ.
- Several cities from diferent original civs but near in other massland could join to form a new brand civ, like cross-culturation discuss on thread culture spread model.
- It act like a culture unit.

They very similar but the main diference is that the migrant couldn't found a city. And colonist couldn't joint a city.

I would like to see Commandos/ Special Forces. They should be able to paradrop, move and pillage, be invisible, make amphibious landings, treat all terrain as roads. Stats: 2.4.1 They should be a scout upgrade. The useless stats reflect that they`re useless against regular military units since there`s so few of them in each unit, but they can be used to scout, sabotage, enslave workers, etc. If stumbled upon when invisible they are promptly booted out and the owning civ gets a HUGE rep hit.

I would like to see Commandos/ Special Forces. They should be able to paradrop, move and pillage, be invisible, make amphibious landings, treat all terrain as roads. Stats: 2.4.1 They should be a scout upgrade. The useless stats reflect that they`re useless against regular military units since there`s so few of them in each unit, but they can be used to scout, sabotage, enslave workers, etc. If stumbled upon when invisible they are promptly booted out and the owning civ gets a HUGE rep hit.

I was with you up to there. I agree that commandos should exist and that they should be able to paradrop, make amphib landings, and treat all terrain as roads. I agree commandos shoule be realitively weak, although you weakened them up to much. They should have the special roles of capturing workers, sabotage, and scout work.

However, if they are detected at peace, they should be booted out with the possibility of the victim declaring war. If they are at war, the unit would be attacked, just like any other unit.

REFUGIE:
This unit appear when a city is in overpopulation caused by a war.
When this happen this unit go to other city of their civ and as replaced by guerilla, warrior, swordsman to get back and help the city under attack.
The enemie troops who atack a refugie could cause an international incident (massacre, genocide).
If a city need 10 turns to growth and 3 turns to make a swordsman, then city build 3 swordsman in exchange of the refugie.

units that can spawn units. Eg rocket launchers.

MUch more resource requirement.. eg wood for archers

How about an upgrade to the medivel Infantry called musket Infantry, which in turn upgrades to a Gurella (I know its mispelled). It would either be 5 attack, 4 deffense, 1 movement or 5 attack, 3 deffense, 1 movement; this will represent the fact that Civ's with saltpeter and iron, but not horses did not attack with armies armed with maces, but with muskets. Think of the American war of Independence, both Britian and the Continental Army used Musket Infantry.

Another thing that is related somewhat to the fact that chairiots are hardly used at all, is the early arrival of Industrial Age Calvary in the Medival age, Military Tradition should have Theory of Gravity as a prequisite, this can dramatically change a war as one Civ learns Military Tradition and can suddenly come back at a previously winning opponent using Calvary with six attack and three movement; a huge advantage over knights and Medival Infantry.

1. Reconnaissance aircraft (Global Hawk, U2).
2. Naval surveillance units capable of detecting and attacking submarines (P-3 Orion).
3. Attack helicopters.
4. Combat engineers.

I would like to see Commandos/ Special Forces. They should be able to paradrop, move and pillage, be invisible, make amphibious landings, treat all terrain as roads. Stats: 2.4.1 They should be a scout upgrade. The useless stats reflect that they`re useless against regular military units since there`s so few of them in each unit, but they can be used to scout, sabotage, enslave workers, etc. If stumbled upon when invisible they are promptly booted out and the owning civ gets a HUGE rep hit.


I would have to disagree. If you ever played DyP you'd know that invisible units quickly lose their effectiveness and become useless. If you are a smart player then you'll have set up a lattice work of spotters who will see an invisible unit as soon as it lands/enters your territory, and then can be delt with immediately. If they could move after paradroping then prehaps that would be good but that presents a problem with people mass paradroping and pillaging like mad.

I was with you up to there. I agree that commandos should exist and that they should be able to paradrop, make amphib landings, and treat all terrain as roads. I agree commandos shoule be realitively weak, although you weakened them up to much. They should have the special roles of capturing workers, sabotage, and scout work.

However, if they are detected at peace, they should be booted out with the possibility of the victim declaring war. If they are at war, the unit would be attacked, just like any other unit.[/QUOTE]


Of course the stats can be discussed, but there seem to be a lot of people that think special forces are superunits. I only want the stats to reflect the low no of soldiers although the quality of each individual soldier is high. My thoughts on the defense stat is that if you have a defense of 4 and are fortified in a mountain tile, you may kick butt. I would also like an ambush bonus if something like that exists. But if you`re caught flat footed by any modern era offensive unit, you`re toast. And any enemy unit within your territory should be a Casus Belli.

General X: Recon aircraft and helicopters sounds great :goodjob: . Helicopters should be able to spot subs.