SGOTM5 - Russia. Maintenance Thread.

Please use this thread to discuss issues relevent to the game. No spoiler information will be tolerated here.

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM5-starta.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM5-startb.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Russia
World size - Large, 25% land give or take.
Difficulty Regent - but plays harder.
The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Here are a couple of links you might find useful.

The original GOTM23 Announcement. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm23_arabs.shtml)
The Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1733966&postcount=61)
The GOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71788)

This Months' sponsored variant is OBCC - One Built City Conquest the rules for which are as follows.

1. You may never build a settler.
2. You must win by conquest victory condition.

Rule changes for this game

The SGOTM mod is based on the GOTM23 setup. But there are various changes that players need to be aware of.

1.29f/PTW Equivalency changes.
1. All the Civs that are included in PTW but are missing from 1.29f have been added to 1.29f.
2. Medeivel Infantry and Guerilla have been added to 1.29f.
3. All Starting workers are now called eqWorker in both versions of the software. Eqworkers cannot be bought, sold or disbanded. Eqworkers cannot be built. The standard Worker has not changed in any respect, and has exactly the same functionality as in 1.29f.
4. Outposts, airfields and Radar Towers cannot be built by the PTW workers, or by any other method.
5. All flavour units have been removed from both versions of the software.
6. All flavour civilisations have been removed from both versions of the software.
7. Most Modern units have been given the same stats as in C3C or as near as the limit of the hardcoded values in 1.29f. allow. Lethal Land or Sea Bombardment has not been implemented for any units.
8. The Mongolian UU is now A/D/M 3/2/2 with zone of control. It costs 50 shields to build, requires horses and horseback riding. It gets no movement bonus on mountains. Unfortunately this change is forced, since it is not possible to implement the movement bonus for the standard Keshik in 1.29f.

Gameplay Equalisation.
1. War mobilisation has been reinstated in both versions of the software. It becomes available with the discovery of Nationalism as in the original game.
2. Leaders cannot hurry great wonders or small wonders. They may however be disbanded for 250 shields.
3. The Heroic Epic no longer requires a victorious Army in the field. It is now a small wonder that is available with the discovery of warrior code. This may be used to reduce the disadvantage that players attempting a non-military victory have due to not being able to rush wonders. It also means that players and teams persuing a military victory will be more likely to face AI armies.
4. Differential Naval Movement is engaged by default.
5. It is not possible to pop settlers from huts.
Reporting of Errors and Ommissions is welcomed and should be posted in this thread.

Everyone needs to follow at least one of the steps set out below. Please read the post carefully and follow the step(s) that are relevent to you. If you mess it up, don't panic. Just e-mail me at S_GOTM@gotm.civfanatics.net or PM me or any of the GOTM staff. We will help you.

SGOTM5 Setup for ALL PTW Players

Those people wishing to play SGOTM5 using the PTW software need to download >>THIS<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM5-PTW.zip) file. Unzip this file into your Civilization/Civ3PTW/Scenarios directory. If you do this correctly you should find a new SGOTM5 folder in your Scenarios directory. If you wish to mess around with the resources files, then there is a readme file in this new directory that tells you how. Otherwise, you can just go ahead and play the game with the set of resources graphics I have provided by default.

SGOTM5 Setup for CivIII 1.29f players (including Mac) who have not setup to play GOTM25 or later.

If you are playing Civ III 1.29f and have not played GOTM25 or beyond, then you need to download and install some game packs that add some different units, resources and civilizations to the game.

Windows players can get the install packs at the following links:

GOTM 21 Full setup:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm21_v129_full_setup.exe

GOTM22 Add-On Setup:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm22_v129_add_on_setup.exe

GOTM23 Add-on Setup:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm23_v129_add_on_setup.exe

GOTM24 Add-On Setup:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm24_v129_add_on_setup.exe

GOTM 25 Add-On Setup:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm25_v129_add_on_setup.exe

Mac OS X players with CivIII v.1.29b2 can use a single installer:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/GOTM_Mac_Installer.dmg.zip

All you need to do is download these, and then install them in the order that you download them. The key point is to make sure that when the installer asks where you want to install to, that you make sure that it installs to the directory where you installed Civ to in the first place. You now need to go ahead and install the correct resource pack for the game. Instructions for this are set out in the next section.

Resources and PediaIcons setup for ALL CivIII 1.29f players

Because there are a lot of people who play SGOTM but not GOTM, I have re-mapped the resources files so that they will not interfere with a "normal" game. The new resources can be found >>HERE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM4-129f.zip). Unzip this file into your Civilization/Scenarios directory. If you do this correctly you should find a new directory called SGOTM4 in your Scenarios folder. If you open this new folder you will find a readme file which explains how to install the files you require for this game.

If you have any problems with either the installation of these files, changing the resources.pcx files or any error messages playing the game of the month, then please don't hesitate to e-mail or send a PM to myself or one of the GOTM staff. :)

Test Saves

CivIII 1.29f (Vanilla)
Vanilla test save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM4-129test.SAV)

CivIII PTW
New test save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM5-testa.SAV)

You should see sheep in the start position for 1.29f and goats for PTW. If you see no animals then you probably have the standard resources installed.

Test save is loaded and tested with PTW.
Now waiting for the team rosters and threads :)

I must say I really like the new rule changes and the return of mobilization. It should make the game more challenging while improving the comparison between games. :thumbsup:

I've just been having a small technical difficulty with the equipment that connects chair to keyboard (as Alan would say). Give me half an hour.

These are the teams.

If there are any errors or ommissions please say ASAP so that I can fix it. Thanks. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM5-teams.jpg


The team threads are UP.

The save games are available.

To save confusion when uploading saves my nickname is "Mistfit" with a capital M. Thanks.

Who would your name be confused with? :confused:

Other than that misfit guy...

The last I knew the submission page was case sensitive to your nick. I have enough trouble remembering what my name is IRL much less which way my nick should be spelled. It's no big deal if MB does not want to change it but for GOTM and SGOTM uniformity it should be a capital M.

Hey Mistfit!!!
Nice new shiny avatar you got...
Welcome back and stay away from Wooden spoons this time. :)

Chamnix is on team MOTH and team Peanut.

but for GOTM and SGOTM uniformity it should be a capital M.It's already been changed in the database :D

Mistfit: I have corrected your nick in my spreadsheet and in the database.
Chamnix has been removed from team Peanut and replaced with MailMan.

Edit: I have also caught an error which has been around for nearly two weeks. The land form is 25% Land, and not 75%.

Edit: I have also caught an error which has been around for nearly two weeks. The land form is 25% Land, and not 75%.
25% land??? We're doooooomeeeed!!! J/K!

As always, mad-bax makes a very good job for SGOTM(ok, and the rest of the stuff also makes a good job :D ) :goodjob:

Accepting that the attempt we made to limit spoiler information in the results presentation was largely ineffective during SGOTM 4, we've decided to change the approach.

The cutoff date no longer applies. All team scores and dates are now displayed and plotted on the graphs up to, but not including, the final score and date for a finished game. These, and the victory conditions and rankings, will not be shown until the game closes. Teams are also shown in alphabetical order for games in progress, so no conclusions can be drawn from the listing order.

These changes also apply to SGOTM 4, as it is still in progress.

May I ask what level barbarians are set to.
Or is it unknown variable we have to find out on our own?

I thought quite carefully about what information to release prior to the start of the game. Barb levels and whether the map was continents, pangea or islands were two parameters that were quite difficult to decide about. In the end I decided to let you find out for yourselves. :)

Accepting that the attempt we made to limit spoiler information in the results presentation was largely ineffective during SGOTM 4, we've decided to change the approach.

The cutoff date no longer applies. All team scores and dates are now displayed and plotted on the graphs up to, but not including, the final score and date for a finished game. These, and the victory conditions and rankings, will not be shown until the game closes. Teams are also shown in alphabetical order for games in progress, so no conclusions can be drawn from the listing order.

These changes also apply to SGOTM 4, as it is still in progress.
The team summary table and the graph work as described, but the list still shows the final save and its Firaxis score.

Thanks. Forgot about the table. Fixed.

You should see sheep in the start position for 1.29f and goats for PTW. If you see no animals then you probably have the standard resources installed.

So, is it ok to play if I don't see goats? I think I did everything I was supposed to, but no goats.

You won't be able to see resources correctly if you don't have the right file downloaded. I'm not sure whether they'll show up as something else, or not at all. Depending on the point in the game and the screenshots you've gotten from your teammates, this may or may not be a problem for any particular set of turns.

If I were you, I'd want to see the resources correctly, though! :) Try PM-ing mad-bax about the problem, maybe, although he probably checks this thread regularly anyway.

Renata

Can eqworkers be joined?

Yep. Just not built, bought, sold or disbanded.

Renata

2. Leaders cannot hurry great wonders or small wonders. They may however be disbanded for 250 shields.

Can leaders hurry a palace or be disbanded towards a palace.

No. A palace is a wonder. IF a forest chop wouldn't go towards it then a disbanded unit won't either. Unfortunately I am not able to implement leaders in the same way as C3C. This was the closest I was able to acheive.

@mad-bax
Well, I feared that that's the answer :eek: .
That will make SGOTM5 and especially the variant quite a bit harder.

Leaders are pretty lame in this game. Anythjing they can rush usefully in the AA/MA range is only worth 100 shields, so that's their effective shield value. Until you acquire a few cities you can't build an army either, and even then armies aren't ever so useful use in Classic IMHO.

M-Bax, thanks for quick reply about Leader. Could you answer to this as well here?
Also, I'd like to know your opinion about win competition using any possible "exploits" or lose, but play "honestly"? BTW, are ship chain, worker merge, and RoP rape allowed? Previous SGOTM4 winner used this tricks. It may help a lot in SGOTM5. Where we can find a list of forbiden exploits?
Regards, Ivan.

You may find a list of banned and permitted exploits >>HERE<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/rules.php)

Ship chaining, ROP Rape and worker merging are all allowed. Worker merging is not allowed beyond the point that food can sustain the additional population. IIRC for PTW and 1.29f this is not possible anyway.

If an exploit is not menitioned explicitly in the red and green lists, don't assume that it's allowed. There's a catch-all statement in the main GOTM code of conduct (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/1st_visit.php#rules):

There are some types of exploits and bugs listed here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/rules.php) that are specifically allowed or disallowed. If you wish to take advantage of a bug or exploit not listed then you must contact the staff via Private mail for a ruling on whether or not it will be allowed.

I'm curious as to why team Bede is on the graph but not in the team summary list. Are they playing this game or are they simply an oversight with the changes made?

Because although the team has been deleted their start save file was still recorded in the database, and the graph picks up its team list by scanning the saves. I've now deleted the save file record so they are no long occupying a location on the graph. Of course as they were right at the top of the list, that means everyone's graph colour has changed. Complaints should be addressed to Demiurge, without whom I would never have noticed ... ;)

<-- Noticed a couple of hours ago, that the Staff team didn't show up on the graph after our first upload. Bug or feature? ;)

Renata

Weeell now! That would be due to a combination of the different case sensitivities of four separate components:

a. PHP
b. MySql
c. mad-bax
d. My software's inability to predict and deal with all of the above.

'Staff' is your team name everywhere .... except where it's embedded in your save file, where it's 'staff'.

I've fixed it.

Mad-bax has a case sensitivity?

Renata

Alan has been trying to teach me to type for some time now. I'm not a particularly good student. :o

I have had a request for a clarification to the base rule changes for this mod.

So here goes.. <takes deep breath>

The mod is based on the GOTM23 setup. This means that I have taken the GOTM23 bic/bix and made the changes to that game that are listed in post 1.
It does not mean the map is the same. It most definitely is not. I have stated in many places that this is a NEW map.

The reason I have based this game on GOTM23 is purely for pragmatic reasons. The games before this did not have as many PTW civs implemented and the games after this were much more heavily modded - See GOTM24-Korea for instance.

The modifications to this setup that I have made are in response to observations I have made in previous SGOTM games. Particularly when playing extreme variants, differences between software versions, and differences in early game luck skews the results in a way that can disadvantage skillful teams.

Changes made to modern age units plus the default implementation of differential naval movement and reinstatement of mobilisation were made to reduce overall game time. AW games in particular can drag on.

It is important that you read the list of changes made in post 1, and it is important you take the time to consider their effect and observe them in the game. Later, in the spoilers, or maybe in a seperate thread we can discuss which (if any) of the changes we would like to keep. Then we can settle down to a completely concrete mod that never changes. Perhaps there will be the odd special game with a new unit or something, but I have the maps for the next three games, and that is not on the cards ATM.

Dear mad-bax,
Could you give me a step-by-step instruction on submitting our save? Particularly what should go into the forum name field? Could you also pick up our latest save from our thread (1025BC, Team Ivan)?

Particularly what should go into the forum name field?

In your case, "I. Larkin", without the quotation marks.

You have a name that appears next to all your posts in the forums. That's your forum name. I'll welcome alternative suggestions as to how I should label that field, but it seems fairly straightforward to me. How did your team manage to get to 1025 BC without knowing this?

That's the only field you need to fill in, and you upload a .sav file created at the end of your turn set. I don't see how I can make it any simpler. What else do you need to know?

Perhaps just "player submitting save" should be the field's label? In fairness to I., "forum name" does create a moment of doubt as to whether the name of a player or of a forum is being requested.

I was just surprised that this is the first time it's been raised, since the players have all been doing this for a while. I've changed it. How's that?

I've no problem with the save name (it's me :D ) but I would have been stuck on how to upload a save if I hadn't got a link from the previous SGOTM. (or is it in a really obvious place and I've just missed it?)

I was just surprised that this is the first time it's been raised, since the players have all been doing this for a while. I've changed it. How's that?
Will try at next submitions. Was unsure, team name, team leader name, forum name ets.
Have tryed many variants, gave up and send msg. Thanks for replys.
Ivan

PTW Bug in game.

Sorry guys but there is a bug in the PTW version of the game.
Please can you pause playing at the end of your turnsets so that I can fix the save files please?

1.29f games are unaffected.
I apologise for the incovenience.

Will try at next submitions. Was unsure, team name, team leader name, forum name ets.
Have tryed many variants, gave up and send msg. Thanks for replys.
Ivan
OK, now I understand. The problem was that your name was in the database as I.Larkin, not I. Larkin - no space. I've changed it. Sorry for my previous impatience.

OK guys. This is important so you need to pay attention. I have completely messed up the PTW game. The bug affects the game from turn 1 and progressively disadvantages the AI throughout the game. The game saves can be fixed, but the AI will never recover, and the game will be very easy for you all, and certainly not comparable to the 1.29f game. I am gutted because it was a blunder that should never have got past me, and also because I like the map. I won't divulge what the actual bug is now in case we decide to continue to play the game.

The way I see it we have 3 options.

1. Fix the saves at 1000BC and play on with seperate awards for PTW and 1.29f.
2. Restart the game with you trying to rconstruct your game from your turnlogs.
3. Scrap the game and use an entirely new map.

It's a pity that this came up over a weekend as the forum traffic is so low.

If I were to be completely selfish, I would say we fix the saves at 1000BC and I give the AI some "help" and you continue to play. I will proceed on this basis.

Now one bug has surfaced I half expect the floodgates to open. I sincerely hope not however.

I will begin to fix the saves and make them available again by the end of the weekend hopefully. Those teams that have not played to 1000BC should do so.

I can only aplogise for this mistake, I feel awful about it. Just too many changes in one go. :(

Anything that you decide is good with me MB. Mistakes cannot be eliminated completely but I will offer my services to play test future SGOTM's before they are released. I have all of the different games so I could play them all. I know that this would emilinate me from the competition but if it would be helpful I'd be willing.

1 or 2 (and ...)

If I were to be completely selfish, I would say we fix the saves at 1000BC and I give the AI some "help" and you continue to play. I will proceed on this basis.

I'm happy with this suggestion. It looks like only two teams have got beyond that point so this seems sensible but then again I'll go with whatever you suggest. IMHO the amount of work you have put into this game (and SGOTM in general) entitles you to be "selfish" every so often. ;)

As a member of one of the teams potentially at a disadvantage because of this, I say fix the saves and play on. I would think giving the ai a stack or two of tanks should just about even things up. :mischief:

option 1 or 2 is fine with me. I doubt that any team at 1000BC has discovered much of the map or contacted any other civs. Ok, maybe they would have, but it would take some lucky goody hut popping....

OK. Yesterday and today I have been working on a way to get the games to near parity. I failed of course, but Alanh and I have mended the saves. Alan fixed the bug and I made a small change that I hope will balance the PTW and 1.29f versions of the game to some degree. I played a few tens of turns from one of your 1.29f saves and played to the same point from a fixed PTW save and compared the techs, units and improvements for the AI in each game. I was surprised at how similar they were in fact. This is not to say the games across software versions will be comparable, but hopefully the PTW game will now play the way it was designed.

Once again I can only apologise for my mistake, and hope that you can continue and enjoy the game.

M-B, AlanH!!! Thank you both guys for all the hard work you put into this.

and is it possible to reveal the bug info at the time when game is over or about to be over?

and is it possible to reveal the bug info at the time when game is over or about to be over?Might ... :mischief:

For now, suffice to say that it looks like it was caused by a problem in the PtW map editor, which M-B could reasonably have expected to behave better than that.

Question: How do I "use" the GOTM server to upload the saves? Apparantly I can't just upload them to the CFC server like in any SG. :(

Tomoyo, go to this link (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) to access the SGOTM submissions page. Enter your forum name exactly and upload the file.

The link can also be found at the top left of the main GOTM page.

I didn't mean the last save... I heard somewhere that I was supposed to upload it a certain place that the save could be checked...

That's what Demiurge meant. When you have played a turn set, go to http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php and upload the save from your last turn. It will then be available for your next team player to download, and the score will appear on the progress graph. You can also copy/paste the link to the uploaded file to your team thread if you like. it's really very easy.

Oh, that was easy. :crazyeye:

Thanks! :)

(or is it in a really obvious place and I've just missed it?)As of a week or so ago it's in the main menu at the top left corner of every http://gotm.civfanatics.net/ web page.

TEAM TONE - IMPORTANT:

Please note that you were supposed to wait for your game file to be corrected for the bug at 1000BC. I notice you have posted a 750 BC save.

Thanks Alan

I have put the next player (me!) on hold. Tried to PM M-B but his mailbox is full so sent it to you instead!

8. The Mongolian UU is now A/D/M 3/2/2 with zone of control. It costs 50 shields to build, requires horses and horseback riding. It gets no movement bonus on mountains.

This just sank in. Wow. A 3/2/2 ancient age unit avaliable with only 3 techs researched. Expensive, but that is scary. It'll be interesting to see what this does for the Mongols.

We've noticed something very strange about workers in our game that seems to give us a big advantage. Is this something that is unique to us, or should we just take advantage of it because the same strange situation occurs for everyone?

I don't have the ability to PM anybody, so I'm trying not to give any spoiler information here. I realize that this makes it difficult to know what the issue is.

CKS
team jeffelammar

I don't have the ability to PM anybodyWhy not? .....

There has been a request by a player to join a team for the current SG. If any of the team captains feel they could use another player (I'm guessing Emperor+ ability) then please post here or PM me.

You are under no obligation since the cut-off date has passed some time ago. :)

OK, this is killing me. :joke:

Actually, I was just curious if there are going to be any mid-game spoiler threads.

Or are we going to only have "end of game" spoilers?

:thanx:

The staff are not in the MA yet! :mischief:

I was waiting for everyone to have the world map. The staff have just about managed that, so I guess it is time. I will post a spoiler *soon*. (Today or tomorrow).

The First Spoiler for SGOTM5 is up and linked >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=107332)

M-Bax, I did not get Coal plant, how it works in this game?

Might be a bug. Let me check it out.

Edit:

Here is the entry for Coal plant from your teams personal bic. I don't see anything out of the ordinary, but if you do, please say.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM5-coalplant.jpg

Looks OK, but I recon that there is no production difference (at least at mobilisation) with City with Coal plant and the same City before it had Coal Plant. Moreover, it looks, that City that has no Coal plant (Factory only) produce less than before. May be "Replace all improuvment with this Flag Checked" do this effect?

It's laborious, but I will check it. All the "Replace all improvements with this flag checked" does is to make sure that if you already have buildings with that flag checked when you build it, then all those buildings expire until/unless you sell it. Although I am absolutely sure I haven't changed anything that affects this improvement, I will check all improvements to make sure that only the correct ones have the flag checked - it would be possible I suppose to build a granary with this flag checked and obsolete all the production improvements.


The production effect is 2 with each integer being a 25% increment of base production, and is the same as the out of the box version.

I didn't explain quite clearly, but it seems that when a coal plant is produced it doesn't increase factory output. Moreover, when it is produced the cities that do not have a coal plant lose production as if they had a coal plant but it was sold. For instance Madras produced 73 shields, and after we built a coal plant in Moscow it produce 48. Could it be linked with mobilization? In our thread we have a set of saves in which the problem is demonstrated.
Regards, Ivan.

Oh OK. I'll pull a couple of saves and have a look.

Oh OK. I'll pull a couple of saves and have a look.
I looked at K-A saves, and now Coal Plants work. Have no idea why they did not at my turns.

I'll still pull your save and have a look Ivan. I don't like mysteries.

The second and final spoiler for this game has been opened and can be found >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=109081)

Is this forum purged so quickly that all the material on Succession Games of the Month 1-3 is already gone for good? :confused: If so, that's a shame. :(

@Northern Pike: Just change the info at the top of the page from 'last 100 days' to 'beginning' and you'll see them!

Thanks a lot. :cool: I'd hoped there was some simple explanation like this.

The Sign-Up Thread for SGOTM6 - Cultural Celtic Communists has been posted >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110770)

The results and congratulations thread for this game will be posted on Tuesday 22nd Feb. I will be starting a 10 day break the next day.

I hope this is OK with everyone. If you haven't finished the game but would like to, then let me know and I'll ask Alanh to "relax" the lock on the server.

There's no lock on the server as far as I recall.

The Results and Congratulations thread for this game has now been posted >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112731)

The Results/downloads page for this game has already been updated.