Although I agree on major decisions on the final turn, we had essentially set the parameters up, 6 horses, then attack Babylon, so it was a pre-arranged decision.
Even so, I would have done everything but the actual attack in a final turn, as would you, right? And MjM is not really a veteran in this arena so I would have expected him to be cautious.

No mention of a DoW, I sure hope we have not suffered from RoP rape! Since the report is so thin nothing can actually be interpreted from it... How many turns to go on Construction, and what was the reason Construction was pursued? How many Horsemen built? With only one location I would have expected a little more than "nada" as events in a turn. 85 gold from or for maps? If we paid 85 gold for maps that was an absolute waste, if we gained it then it was OK! Difficult to tell! The uninformative report sure make room for extensive guesswork. In a bad mood right now and about to make some zzzz's. This kid better shape up! ;)

An after action report would have been great, especially when no map was posted nor any save file...

Knock knock Mjm!!!
Where are you??? don't be scared so easily, please show up :)

Sorry busy today and as for other things Wotan pointed out:

I did do a DoW before I attacked , and had no units in indian lands.

Going for Construction was a mistake sorry.

We gained around 80 - 100 ( I didnt take notes ) gold. We didnt spend any gold on trades.

And more on the horseman attacks.

We lost 4 horsemen not taking the city , but with only a redlined spear defending it it will fall the next turn that we play. We have 3 horseman on the Indian continent and 3 on our mainland.

I will post the save right now. From now on I will write a better report. I'm just really strapped for time right now. From now on I will make a time where I dont have to rush the turns I play.

Every turn I have played in this SGOTM i have saved (im very paranoid not to forget to save one).

Well on 550 BC I didnt save the end of the turn , so all I have is a 570 BC or a Autosave from the begining of 550 BC. I will have to play the turn over again.

Just post the 570BC turn. The way to remember to post the save is that you want to know how our score compares and you can only see that when you post. That is the first thing you should do.

edit: Sorry I'm reading this the wrong way. So you don't have a save after the attacks???????? Yes you should try to do that turn again the same way, if the attacks do not come out the same way, then post the 550BC autosave and we'll try to work out why

Well I just finished the turns and the attack went EXACTLY the same way it did last time pretty good if I say so myself. will post the save.

I will post the save right now. From now on I will write a better report. I'm just really strapped for time right now. From now on I will make a time where I dont have to rush the turns I play.
Good morning! :)
With no or very uninformative reporting and the save missing all kinds of thoughts rush through one's mind. An after action report added to the time line is a great way of summing up your turns and give guidance to the team and especially the player following you.

This game is still in it's infancy, when it picks up reporting the major events will definitely change. Todays major events will scarcely make it into the news tomorrow. ;) Will have a look at the save now and post any comments.

Well I just finished the turns and the attack went EXACTLY the same way it did last time pretty good if I say so myself. will post the save.
Sorry but there is not really any skill in that, its called Preserve Random Seed, and you should get the same RNG results, which would give you the same result, if you attacked in the same order.

I had a quick look, I can't believe that we lost both elite horses in that attack, that is one of the worst RNG results I've seen. Elite horse attacking regular spearman fortified on plains is 63% chance of winning.

I can only see 3 additional horsemen, in 10 turns should have been 5, did you lose some to barbs? That horse in Moscow should be sent to the front this turn.

I can only see 3 additional horsemen, in 10 turns should have been 5, did you lose some to barbs? That horse in Moscow should be sent to the front this turn.
No, MjM apparently believes he does not need to read the advise given by others. Moscow is producing 12 spt!!! It should be either 14 or 16!!! :mad: Dman made a specific comment on this, still MjM fails to grasp it...
@MjM: Read up on the "constitution" for SGOTM's, please try to follow those simple "rules".

He must have gone in with Elites first???? I understand nothing here??? So I am probably on par with MjM... ;)

Shipchaining in the north is terrible!!! Map below with example of how to do it. I guess we need to educate MjM about the very basic aspects of Civ. Ship positions/handover locations as dots, arrows show move. So no "go-to" orders please. With so few units I would personally kick the person using such orders at this point in the game from the team if I had the opportunity. ;)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/smacksterships.JPG

Well I just finished the turns and the attack went EXACTLY the same way it did last time pretty good if I say so myself. will post the save.
That is probably the only "good" we can apply to your turns... :(

A couple of maps, the first an easy to use instruction to Moscow MMing, obviously needed??? The second a crossing point to get to the GH on the eastern island.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/smacksterproduction.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/smackstercrossing.JPG

Well, I see this isnt exactly going as planned.

My advice would be for any player really pressed for time to ask to be skipped.

Elites in first?? Oh my..
Lets just hope we can take that city the next turn.
Also, like wotan says, get that GH on the island pictured.



JJ

Well, there is a proverb in russian language... "Perviy blin komom" which can be roughly translated as "first pancake is always scrambled".
MjM will learn as I did playing SGOTM3, we just will have to walk him trough his set of turns and give very detailed instructions and hope he will read them carefully.
I remember not reading Wotan's advices myself and then getting my butt kicked big time. :)

@MjM: One advice from my personal experience - before you start your 1st turn, read every post in this thread from the place where the previous player finished, including that player's log. Make notes if you need. Keep IE running on the background so you can switch from game to the thread to lookup some info you may need.

Roster

dman (on deck)
Wotan
smackster
tomasjj
MjM (just played)
Tarkeel (playing)

I remember not reading Wotan's advices myself and then getting my butt kicked big time. :)
So do I! :) Those were the days... ;) No need for that anymore... :goodjob: Dman

I remember not reading Wotan's advices myself and then getting my butt kicked big time. :)

I think we've all had our time :)

I looked at the graph in SGOTM submission table.
Lookes like in 50AD Peanut team started kicking butts of AI's they graph went up all of the suddent. That can only mean they captured one or few cities. We need to beat them

I looked at the graph in SGOTM submission table.
Lookes like in 50AD Peanut team started kicking butts of AI's they graph went up all of the suddent. That can only mean they captured one or few cities. We need to beat them
Our graph should start going up next turn, way ahead of 50AD.

That's the easy part. Hard part is to make sure it doesn't dunk down again when Indians counter-attack our weak military.

That's the easy part. Hard part is to make sure it doesn't dunk down again when Indians counter-attack our weak military.
If I'd thought we would have trouble taking it I would have suggested an alliance first. But lets wait and see what kind of counter attack India come up with.

Tarkeel needs to really focus on the reinforecements. Send the archer in the north, and all horses. I know he will do this, but that is key.

But do not overdo with reinforcements. It's about the time barbs will send horses in large quantities to pillage around Moscow.
We need to keep an archer or two in city limits

But do not overdo with reinforcements. It's about the time barbs will send horses in large quantities to pillage around Moscow.
We need to keep an archer or two in city limits
There is an archer and a warrior there. The archer is not needed for MP purposes so can attack any that come. Right now I suggest that is all we leave there, and keep sending horses north. There is also an archer far north, he should join the attack.

I can picture it now as hundreds of barbs bear down on Moscow, just in time for us to pack up and leave to jump the palace north :)

I just played from 750BC. I got 6 horses ready to attack Babylon in 570BC, I had just landed the 7th, the 8th was at sea and 3 more were on our roads going to the sea. For whatever reason Babylon only had one spearman defender, and that warrior was wandering around protecting the settler.

For what its worth I did not see any ship chaining opportunities. One turn to get on ship, one turn in transit, one turn to get off ship. Chaining will not make that any better.

smackster

Did you just doing for testing??? :confused:
Babylon??? or India??
Was there a Babylon??? sorry. got confused...

Is Tarkeel playing or what?
And when?

JJ

I hope Tarkeel shows up today, if not Smackster will make a decision whether we should skip him.

Did you just doing for testing??? :confused:
Babylon??? or India??
Was there a Babylon??? sorry. got confused...
Yes just for a test, just played those 10 turns to see how quickly we could actually get to attack and how many horses would be in transit. I'm afraid the actual situation looks very dire as there are so few reinforcements on the way.

Of course it was India, not Babylon.

smackster

Tarkeel did say he'd go it, although he said that before the save was actually there.

I'll give him today to turn up and tell us where he is.

smackster

Dman, if you read this, and you have time tonight why don't you take it. By the time you get home if Tarkeel has not appeared you know he's out of it until tomorrow. If he turns up tomorrow we can just do a swap.

I think its important we move on from here and get back on track

Ok. I got it and i will play tonight after 8PM EST, unless Tarkeel shows up until then.
Any recomendations for my 10 turns?

Didn't have time to get it, exam tomorrow. Will read up on details and play it then :) If no word by tomorrow evening, I've been kidnapped by friends and won't have time after all, and can be safely skipped. Hope to avoid that though :)

Didn't have time to get it, exam tomorrow. Will read up on details and play it then :) If no word by tomorrow evening, I've been kidnapped by friends and won't have time after all, and can be safely skipped. Hope to avoid that though :)
Actually why don't you swap with dman anyway. I want to keep this moving, lets me flexible, if you can't tell us when for sure and somebody else can then lets swap.

If we don't hear from you then dman is playing this tonight. Then you take it in the morning.

If you are playing it right now, then great, and dman can take it after you.

smackster

edit: I assume you can't do it now, with the exam tomorrow, so dman has this save

Ok. I got it and i will play tonight after 8PM EST, unless Tarkeel shows up until then.
Any recomendations for my 10 turns?
I would like us to build horses, and ship them to India, also ship the spare archer. Don't use horses to scare barbs, only the archer at home. If that dies then I guess we have to use a horse, but only if the archer dies.

Use your judgement to capture cities and defend them. Who knows what counters India will have if any.

Continue researching Construction as fast as reasonable.

Work out how to build a scout and ship him to a hut, without compromising our horse building :)

Swap ahead :) I'm very flexible

I've neve looked at the save since MjM finished his turns. I was afraid :) .
I will see what i can do military wise... If there is something unusual comes up i will stop the game and post in the thread.
will play in aprox. 2 hours

I should be on all night, turning on IM, so I'll get any messages right away.

Pre-flight:
MM Moscow to get 16GPt and will switch to 14 next turn.
Jumping from 16 to 14 gpt is really for academic purposes only since Moscow will only grow in 13 turns, but that extra pop won't give us much of a benefit and Moscow is soon to be abandoned. It is easier just to put Moscow on 15gpt using tundra mine and 0 pop grow. I am sending Horse from Moscow up north.
I remember we didn't want to sale contacts between two continents, but it looks like everybody knows everybody.
Was it a sale by one of us or AIs simply found out about each other on their own.?

IBT Celts are building Gr. Lib.

T1. 530BC.
Attacking Bombay. That Indian spearman has completely healed and I have 3 lousy horses
Vet Horse vs. reg. spear -> horse dies.
3hp vet horse vs. 1hp spear -> 1hp horse.

We take Bombay, enslave a settler and have 2 1hp horses to defend it.

IBT. Iroquois suggested WM trades I declined.

T2. 510BC. Resistance in Bombay ended. Galley found yet another goodie hut on the southern tip of west continent.
Spain has 2 workers for sale. I give CoL, Pol and get those workers. Sending workers north to help with the road.

IBT. Americans are building pyramids; someone else (I missed the Civ name, because Nick was “quite helpful” at the moment. I guess I will have to stop playing, figure out what this kid wants and continue later when nobody tries to climb on top of your head.)

T3. 490BC there is no much to do... 2 slaves near Bombay road horse tile. Trying to move troops across our island but forest tiles up north make thing go slow. Have to remember to switch citizen in Moscow from forest to fish. India finally sends 2 reg. warriors our way, will be next to Bombay next turn. America has workers for sale but we have no technology to give in exchange. They want WM +220 gold for those workers, so I decide to decline.

IBT. English - Lighthouse. Vikings - The Great Lib. Moscow Horse-horse

T4. 470BC
Attacking Indian warriors.
Vet. Horse vs. reg. warrior -> 2hp horse
Vet. Horse vs. reg. warrior -> 4hp horse.
American's must be at war, they have 4 workers in their capital this time. Egypt has 2 workers in their capital for sale. I reckon Cleo and Abraham are fighting each other. India won't talk peace. Ship chaining doesn't really work in this game as Smackster mentioned in the thread.

IBT Egyptians are building Gr. lib.

T5. 450BC. Checked every AI (do it every turn as a matter of fact), nothing much is going on trading and no new techs. I see Indian Settler pair. They have an archer fortified near Lahore. It looks like Indians have no army what so ever. But we have no army either.

IBT: Zulu are building Gr. lib. We lost 1hp galley to barbs.

T6. 430BC. Moscow horse -> horse. Workers start putting road on 1st forest tile. Indian archer is approaching Bombay. We will attack it next turn. Indian's will talk peace, but they won't give us even a single worker, just 15 gold. Forget it Gandhi, I wasn't even going to make peace with you.

IBT. Japs built an Oracle. Wonder chaining has started. Barb horses approaching Moscow from 2 directions

T7. 410BC. Talk about bad RNG.
Vet. Horse attacks reg. Indian archer and dies.
Next horse kills archer

IBT. AIs keep building wonders.

T8 390BC. We have 3 barb horses around Moscow. I had to reroute one horse from going north because barbarian blocked our highway and was definitely going to pillage it. There is a barb hut halfway between Moscow and northern shipping point.
Moscow built horse and I have to keep it there because of those 3 barb horses one archer is not going to be enough.
I traded maps with American's and few others to boost our treasury and found one turn hop between two continents. Map will be attached.

IBT Barb horse attacks our archer and dies. Another horse retreats into the fog.

T9 390BC.
Our horse attacks barb horse and kills.
Another horse disperses barb hut.
Horse vs. Ind. archer -> 3hp horse.

IBT. Barb. Warrior is going to threaten our road work up north.

T10. 350BC. Didn't do much this turn, rather left next player to decide major moves. Japan learned monarchy.


Post turn analysis: Japan knows Monarchy and nobody else does. Usually Monarchy is quite expensive tech, but with so many AI it will be cheap when they all learn it.
I see us as the monarchy in this game. I don't think republic will do the job. We have some cash. 641Gold to be exact.
Construction will be ready in 11 turn and we run budget deficit -11gpt. I didn't see a chance to build scout in Moscow, plus we don't have many galleys around to ship to that island. Other goodie huts we probably won't reach in time in any rate.
We have 6 horses and an archer on Indian continent. We need few more to capture Delhi or Calcutta. Indians have iron connected so we shall see swordsmen soon. I did use ship chaining, but it wasn't a perfect setup.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM350BCSMindia.jpg

Here is where we can use galleys to move to the arab land.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM350BCSMhop.jpg


Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Smackster_SG005_BC0350_01.SAV)


EDIT: I can see Smackster is here... he must have waited for my report :)

Looks good from the report. How many horses do we have up there, can't load the game until later. I suggest 6 horses on that continent and take out Calcutta, well 4 in the attack and two at home, until further reinforcements arrive.

I'm not totaly sold on going to Monarchy, but with only two cities if we can get it, the anarchy should be short. I would however, at least wait until we have those 6 horses in play (if not already)

Note our score jump, so we are the first ones to take a city.

Tarkeel is up, playing tomorrow, Wotan is on deck, smackster on Wotan's deck

@Smackster: To answer your question.


We have 6 horses and an archer on Indian continent. We need few more to capture Delhi or Calcutta. Indians have iron connected so we shall see swordsmen soon. I did use ship chaining, but it wasn't a perfect setup.


It would be seven, but i lost a horse to indian archer :mad:

But i would hate to get a bad RNG again lets get more horses to Bombay to be safe.

OK then lets get 6 ready for the attack on Calcutta, two for defence (8 total). So get two more to India and then move. Where is the iron, can't see it on any of my pictures.

You should see iron on the picture i've attached to my report.
It is north-west from Delhi

Are you drunk Smackster? :) :joke:

We also have an archer near Bombay. We can keep an archer and horse in Bombay and move 6 horses to attack Delhi. We will need to move only one horse from our island and it is already loaded into galley i believe.

Worse than being drunk, I was playing another game, oh my god, and it was not civ. All I could do was have a peek at the maps from the forum, and on my laptop screen, its hard to see.

I've stopped that now so loading the save.

edit : for whatever reason, I can't see your pictures right now

Pictures are shown on my screen just fine... not sure why you can't see them. :confused:

My disk was full, so it was not loading the pictures.

I see the iron. Forget that, too far.

I don't really want to wait to get another city, as I think we need to prepare for the palace jump ASAP and all else does not matter.

I think we should wait one turn, then send all 5 horses to Calcutta. The horse and archer on the coast, should be able to protect Babylon. I predict no more than two spears in Calcutta and on average we should lose only one horse to that. I know it didn't work right last time, but the odds were with us, and it was the right thing to do.

edit: buy one worker from America. Don't protect those workers in the north home continent from the barb, the horse from the south can do it, and if the barb comes close then move the workers north. Getting the workers on the new continent is our way to success here. That would quickly allow us to work that land to make it productive enough to jump there.

edit2: note America has a city near Arabia, which explains the contacts

Iron is indeed too far, but i wasn't talking about us. What I was trying to say we need to take Delhi to deny Indians that iron.

Iron is indeed too far, but i wasn't talking about us. What I was trying to say we need to take Delhi to deny Indians that iron.

Edit; At any rate... We have to come up with clear plan for the next 10 turns before Tarkeel or Wotan start playing.


more edits: Weird, i was trying to edit a post and it added an additional identical post plus my edits :confused:

I don't think we can take Delhi for a while. But if we take a chance, send one horse now to the Iron, and the other 4 next turn to Calcutta, the odds are still with us to take Calcutta.

I can only see one post, maybe you've been drinking now....only joking, the forum goes funny sometimes. I think Delhi will be too tough, think 3-4 spearmen. to take that I'd want say 7-8 horses, which we'll have spare in about 10 turns.

Lets get Calcutta.

I concur on next city target. Calcutta it is....
I'd rather send all 5 horses to Calcutta just in case...
indian cities are so small, they probably will only build one sword in 10+ turns...
Unless Gandhi is busy building wonders and that would be really helpful for us to keep his military down :devil2:

In fact I just checked, India is building the GL in Calcutta, that makes it easier as he wont be able to pop anymore spears there. You started getting me worried about the iron, but I think you are right he'll not produce many swords, very quickly.

I was thinking we wait one turn before going, but I say go this turn, before hitting end turn, with all 5. If the warrior moves to Babylon, then the horse on the coast can attack, 84% chance he'll win + retreat chance. If not, then one of the 5 comes back to defend.

Then the move is to the iron, and cut it, while we build what we need to attack Delhi.

Well done, Dman! You have sorted out the mess in a good fashion. We probably lost a set of turns but will finally get on track again.Jumping from 16 to 14 gpt is really for academic purposes only since Moscow will only grow in 13 turns, but that extra pop won't give us much of a benefit and Moscow is soon to be abandoned. It is easier just to put Moscow on 15gpt using tundra mine and 0 pop grow.
Not really! When producing 14 spt the extra commerce in the fish tile add another beaker/gold. Every little thing counts... ;)

For the near future: Calcutta primary target. Secondary targets, unhooking Iron and Bangalore to gain access to a "port".

A little more distant is the threat posed by the MA Barb. activation. That will really put Moscow on the line. Maybe we should actively pursue a Barb Camp campaign before the MA?

Well done! now we got us a nice little foothold, and India isnt strong.
good call on the worker deal!

Agree that Calcutta seems the best call.
Although unhooking the iron also would be nice. We arent exactly the kings on defence with horsemen in our newly conquered cities, but then again the Indians shouldnt pose us that many problems on this level.

I guess getting that GH is off?

As for a little barb huntin, do we really need to when we are abandoning Moscow in a while (not sure how long that will take)? I mean, will there be 20 horsemen so that we cant defend it?

JJ

Ok, Who is playing? Should we let Wotan play if Tarkeel doesn't show up until late evening Norway time?

We should give Tarkeel 24 hours to get this one

I was thinking further about when to abandon Moscow. Another part of the criteria should be the war with India, as the citizens in Calcutta/Babylon are Indian and not happy, lets say after we captured Calcutta that we jumped, it would be less than productive while still at war with India. However, cleary our only way to expand is to continue to capturing Indian cities. Therefore another minimun item for the jump is hooking up our luxury near Babylon.

Also, I liked to get the AI fighting each other. Thinking sometime ahead now, it may be appropriate to declare on Arabia soon, and get their neighbour into war with them. Arabia at least don't have an AA UU. I tend to like to get all the AI to fight each other, regardless of UU's and golden ages. What do the others think.

smackster

A little more distant is the threat posed by the MA Barb. activation. That will really put Moscow on the line. Maybe we should actively pursue a Barb Camp campaign before the MA?
It is a concern. How many techs away from MA are we? Maybe we have enough time before that happens to make our jump. Certainly we need to keep a very careful watch on those techs. I would not divert any horses yet however. Well not in the next 10 turns, in those turns we need another 5 horses sent to the north.

Scout, how about we push a scout or two out from Bombay and Calcutta. What is it 10 shields? Better than building a warrior, or a 30 turn regular horse. In fact I don't like that spearman being built in Bombay. I do keep hearing talk of defence from certain members, some new and some old, I really feel that the old member needs to remember that team smackster does not do defence, we are a spearman free zone, the new members will learn, oh yes, they will learn

:D Spearman is being built in Bombay just because.... there was nothing else to build in that city, and it is up to next player to decide what is the actual production should be.
(Bombay not Babylon, where did you get this love to Babylon Smackster???? :rolleyes: )

So no defence in Bombay eh?
Lets hope we wont need it.

well, as a matter of fact there will be defense in Bombay - horse and an archer. India is weak it should be sufficient enough.

Well, at least we should make unhooking that iron a pri then.
Swordsmen wouldnt be good for us.
But then if India is as weak as you presume we will be rollin' :D

Scout, how about we push a scout or two out from Babylon and Calcutta. What is it 10 shields? Better than building a warrior, or a 30 turn regular horse. In fact I don't like that spearman being built in Babylon.
Good idea, lets do it! And use one of the three galleys up north to move it around.

I do keep hearing talk of defence from certain members, some new and some old, I really feel that the old member needs to remember that team smackster does not do defence, we are a spearman free zone, the new members will learn, oh yes, they will learn
Hear, hear. We had that discussion and a load of useless defensive units in SGOTM3. They just cost support and are always too far from the action. I rarely build any defensive units in Civ, just rushed a unit occasionally to help out in a tight spot...

:D Spearman is being built in Bombay just because.... there was nothing else to build in that city, and it is up to next player to decide what is the actual production should be.
(Bombay not Babylon, where did you get this love to Babylon Smackster???? :rolleyes: )
What are you talking about it says, Bombay :) (I changed it)

We could have built a scout. We still can. Lets build it. If Tarkeel doesn't show up here soon, I'm going to hunt him down.

Wotan, you are here, are you bored, its skip Tarkeel time, can you play.

smackster

I can take it tomorrow morning, would prefer to be sober when playing... ;) The afterwork pubcrawl dragged out a bit... So you will be able to have it when you wake up yourself... :)

Roster

dman (just played)
Wotan (playing)
smackster (on deck)
tomasjj
MjM
Tarkeel (skipped/swapped)

I'll be able to play tomorrow morning, so tomassjj will be up for his first turn then. Due to recent events we are going to have to do this a little different. So tomassjj, after my turns, I'm going to make a summary list of what I think needs to be done, and I'd like you to acknowledge the list first, so that we are all sure we understand what the plan is. I think some very critical turns are coming up. Don't feel any pressure to play, as long as you give accurate estimates of when you will look at the game, we are very patient. I'd prefer you spent two days looking at the save if that is what was needed.

smackster

smackster.

I think I will be able to play tomorrow euro-time, if not on sunday surely.
Pressure? I am cool with going through and discussing the issues that needs to be dealt with together with you smackster. Don't worry. There has to be a debate, if not, then you might as well play my turns too ;)

One thing though, I will need to read up on the palace jump as I have never done that. Thats about the only civ issue that I am not up to date on as I play my games on demigod now.

I will look carefully at the save, and besides, I am sure there will be some good write-ups from both you (smackster) and wotan before then :)

jj

Yes there has to be debate. In fact that is what we want, we discuss the issues, give our suggestions and then you play your turns. If you make a decision be prepared to explain it, that is all. If you make a mistake, that is fine, just learn from it. I made that mistake on putting a colony on the lux, when I should roaded it and then dropped the worker in Moscow, our score would be higher if I'd done that, I just didn't think it through properly. Its ok, I'll try not to make it again.

Palace jump should be easy, as we have so few cities. Just abandon Moscow, and it will jump to the largest city, however, it calculates the largest city, by city size, in addition to the size of cities around it, and troops in that city. When you have many cities the choice is not obvious. Anyway the civ tools help this.

BTW you must get MapStat to play this game. There are so many AI, the only way to keep on top of diplomacy is with that tool.

smackster

I got mapstat running in the background, so thats settled.

jj

Ok, it is sat. morning in US and where is Wotan? :mischief:

In Wotan we trust

The somewhat long and wet pubcrawl last night took its toll. Not so much "upstairs" as it did re. attention to female needs... My dear wife wanted some of my attention ;) Have played it now and am rather satisfied with the result hope you find it worth waiting for.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Smacksterindy.JPG
Turn log

0 – 350BC Pre-flight
Dman left a Horseman next to the Barb.Camp? I attack and it disperses. Move all 5 Horsemen in Babylon(Bombay ;) ) towards Calcutta. Bombay to build a Scout. Bought two more Workers from America for WM and 206 gold. I hope to slow down America’s expansion by doing this.

1 – 330BC
Bombay builds a Scout, Barracks started (prebuild for anything). Archer attack Indian Warrior -> Archer dies, Warrior redlined. Horseman attacks and kills Warrior, promoted to Elite!

IBT: Barb.Horseman attack our Archer near Moscow and dies.

2 – 310BC
Moscow builds Horseman, Horseman started. China starts building GL and Iroqouis start building pyramids. Battle of Calcutta. Spearman and Warrior killed, 2 Workers from a captured Settler. 1 redlined Horseman retreat after wounding Spearman. Two additional Horsemen wounded but no losses. Elite Horseman attack new Indian Archer near Bombay and Ivan the Terrible steps up to greet the victorious Horseman! Next target is Bangalore since Madras is only size 1 and has no culture. Two Horsemen sent to disconnect Iron.

IBT: Indian Galley appears. Barb.Galley attack our western “explorer” and dies. Our Galley promotes to Veteran w. 2 HP remaining.

3 – 290BC
Indians start building GL again? Would have thought they need to focus on military. Indian Galley sunk! Barb.Camp dispersed. Barb.Galley sunk. Another GH discovered in the extreme west.

4 – 270BC
Moscow builds HM, HM started. Horseman kills Indian Swordsman.

5 – 250BC
Japanese starts building HG. Iron disconnected.

6 – 230BC
Moscow builds HM, HM started. Mongols and Indians starts building GL.

7 – 210BC
Indian Archer killed. GH spotted by western “explorer”.

IBT: Western “explorer” sunk by Barb. Galley! Indian Archer attack and kill HM.

8 – 190BC
Moscow builds HM, HM started. Bangalore falls, no killed HMs, but one retreated and two wounded. Killed Archer outside Delhi, HM promoted to Elite.

9 – 170BC
Construction researched, Currency started. Hopefully the Scout will pop one of the Governments in a couple of turns.

10 – 1000BC
Moscow builds HM, HM started. Iroquois starts building HG. Mongols starts building GL. Battle of Delhi, we capture it after some losses. Two HM fall at the gates. Scout lands next to GH!

After action report:
Research: Have changed to Currency. Only one turn yet so no fret if we want to pursue anything else.

India: Important decision to make. I have not taken it on my own but have checked the diplo screen for what Gandhi would offer us. Since they will give us Madras, Karachi, Lahore, Jaipur, WM and 37 gold for Peace the question is rather academic since it will probably be a “snowballs chance in hell” we will be able to capture those cities since India keep rushing Archers from them . They will just have Kolhapur (new Capital) and Hyderabad left.

Our new Capital: Karach is my suggestion! We build FP in Delhi and jump palace to Mecca when the time comes for it. And then we drop Karachi. So move enough HM to Karachi to make it the new Capital when we abandon Moscow.

Moscow: Building a Horseman every second turn with 16 shields first turn and 14 the second turn. Move a citizen between Fish and forest.

Have been selling WM every turn to anyone prepared to pay at least 1 gold for it and gained enough to put a surplus of 100 gold into our account even though the economy is running at a deficit. Suggest we keep doing this, it is tedious but will gain us 1 gpt from each tribe with gold.

Construction: Since we are the third tribe to get it, it will probably be sold off to the other tribes by Iroquois or Zulu. We can get almost 400 gold from selling it to everyone with at least 20 gold.


Firaxis: 246

Awesome!
Leader and the battles going well.
:goodjob:

Super!!!! Wotan the Terrible (in good sense of cource ;) ) has produced us Ivan the Terrible :goodjob: .

Seriously, good job. I didn't expect to have so many Indian cities. :)

I say it's time for a palace jump.

EDIT: I see a GL on the southern peninsula. Where are you going to send it to? It can't buid neither big nor small wonders, so an Army is pretty much only the use of it.

Oh, S**T, the leader. Forgot about him... Should have turned him into an army when Bangalore was captured. Then I might have had a second leader emerge from one of the three elite attacks I did on Delhi...

RE. the Army. Keep it empty until we land in Arabia. With only Galleys we can only move them if the hold a max of one unit. It might also be a plan to hold back until we have Knights...

I only took three cities... But I might take credit for 7 since the peace offering of four additional Indian cities happens during my turns. I just wanted the team to have a say in it. Although it is an offer we cannot refuse. So, Smackster, the first thing to do is to make peace with India and take what they have.

Great turns, I can't believe we got Delhi and Bangalore, was just thinking Calcutta would be nice. The regent AI really is proving to be a regent AI.

Yes the peace deal is right. But what next, assume we want to build for an attack on America. Not sure about Karachi, I mean I just see a mass of jungle there. I know we want to disband that, but how long before we can do that. I see that we can probably build the FP in Delhi pretty quickly. Hmmm, ok will think about this, will play tonight. I'm sure its time to jump either way, we want that FP build starting with minimal corruption.

Can't load it up right now, so will provide more comment later.

smackster

What do we think about phoney AI wars. I want to get the main continent fighting to slow their tech pace down. I'd really like to fight most wars against spearmen.

What do we think about phoney AI wars. I want to get the main continent fighting to slow their tech pace down. I'd really like to fight most wars against spearmen.


Getting the AI to fight eachother is always nice. Hopefully with so many civs there wont be one or two that turns into a too big threat. I mean, if they gain too much land of the others.

A bit of a bummer that the leader didnt build an army right away, we might have had another one, but then again I guess we should be pleased with how this went anyway.

And any idea where Hyderabad is situated?

JJ

Great turns, I can't believe we got Delhi and Bangalore, was just thinking Calcutta would be nice. The regent AI really is proving to be a regent AI.
We are fighting a "regent" game so the AI will be a pushover from now on. The major obstacle in this game was to get a beachhead somewhere. And to some extent the number of AIs, a faster tech race than in a game with fewer AIs.


What do we think about phoney AI wars. I want to get the main continent fighting to slow their tech pace down. I'd really like to fight most wars against spearmen.
Oh, yes we like it! ;) Maybe use the "construction deals" to pay for some of it? Get the low gold AI's to pay for it by DoW's?

Next target: America!

@jj: The leader had to wait until we had four cities. I should have moved him to Bombay immediately after Bangalore was taken. But all in all, it was 3 Elite attacks so not the end of the world. I would advocate not loading any units into the army until me are on Arabian soil.

Phony Ais wars will help us... just make sure those wars stay phony wars :) .

I think the short term plan of action should be:

1. Peace with India.
2. Palace jump (I see major disagreement between Smackster and Wotan on this, so you guys decide between two of you where you want to move it to :rolleyes: ).
3. Building infrastructure in new Russian land (mostly barracks) +FP.
4. as soon as we have a little bit of military start expanding again.

We really should fight on both continents simultaneously to achieve maximum effect. It will be especially easy to do once we have FP in Delhi and palace in Mecca. But we should not wait until that happen. This is a regent level we won't need dozens and dozens of units.

EDIT: Our score graph is moving up nicely. :) So far we are ahead of all the others, BUT.... no major mistakes allowed from now on...

@ Wotan :Ah, I didnt know one had to have 4 cities to build an army. Sorry, mate.

I guess we will have to discuss if the army is going to fight on arabic soil first and not on american.

JJ

I guess we will have to discuss if the army is going to fight on arabic soil first and not on american.

JJ
Probably best to turn it into an army but not to "load" any horsemen into it until we have it in Arabia.

Probably best to turn it into an army but not to "load" any horsemen into it until we have it in Arabia.


Oh, for sure. A galley cant take a full army. I was just posing the question if we were going to use that army on this continent (Yanks) or the other, Mecca, one.
JJ

I'm stuck on the palace jump location, I don't understand the Karachi idea.

Although I realise we are only going to use this new palace until we get Mecca, I do believe that is going to be 20-30 turns minimum, and want those turns to be most productive. So I would sacrifice Calcutta/Bombay for that cause. Because of its proximity to Delhi, I chose Bombay as the capital. With Bombay as capital, Delhi is rank 1, otherwise its rank 2, I don't know if that makes any difference.

So I need the view points from others (not just Wotan) before I act.

My vote is jump to Bombay.

Now having looked more, I do want to trade construction. I see that I can also get Monarchy, before I get more cities, how about that trade, revolt to Monarchy and then get the Indian cities. No point palace jumping until we are Monarchy.

I don't really like Karachi is a capital not because of jungles but because it is too far from "better" indian cities and that means we will have city with more corruption than i'd like to see. and it will take much longer to build FP in Delhi if capital located in Karachi vs. Bombay.
i want new capital to be as close to Delhi as possible, i want that FP to be built fast. Bombay works better than karachi for that matter.

As for Monarchy... I am not sure about trading details, but we should revolt before we make peace, since that way we are likely to have less turns in anarchy. But if you can make it the same turn, e.q. trade monarchy, revolt, make peace.

It seems like Bombay is a good idea for a new temporary capital, and Dehli for the FP.
There will be more production in Bombay from the start compared to Karachi and it also seems to be better placed relativlely to Dehli and the future capital of Mecca.
JJ

Well I don't know I'd like to hear from Wotan on Karachi. There is some virtue in keeping the Indian lands largely intact. In the long run, with the FP in Delhi that are can be used for horses/Knights fighting west, with Mecca fighting east. A little bit of short term waste may be worth it over the course of the rest of the game.

I'm stuck on the palace jump location, I don't understand the Karachi idea.

Although I realise we are only going to use this new palace until we get Mecca, I do believe that is going to be 20-30 turns minimum, and want those turns to be most productive. So I would sacrifice Calcutta/Bombay for that cause. Because of its proximity to Delhi, I chose Bombay as the capital. With Bombay as capital, Delhi is rank 1, otherwise its rank 2, I don't know if that makes any difference.

So I need the view points from others (not just Wotan) before I act.

My vote is jump to Bombay.
My secondary opinion, I can understand the reluctance re. Karachi. It is less productive in the short run. So lets compromise, I would then look at the Calcutta/Bombay pair as an alternative too. Between them Bombay is at distance 5 from Delhi as are Madras and Bangalore. With the FP there and a palace in Mecca all three will be at rank 1 together with the ring around Mecca. Calcutta OTOH is at distance 6! So I guess Calcutta is my choice for interim Palace.
But my money is still on a less productive Karachi. I was hoping the jump to Mecca would occur as soon as we have finished the FP in Delhi. Karachi is the location in the Indian core I would be least sorry to lose, that is my main reason for chosing it as a palace site. We are after all sacrificing the palace as soon as the FP is up and running. No reason to use a productive location like Calcutta/Bombay if we can use a dud like "Karachi". And Bombay have horses!

Palace jump values: Calcutta, Delhi:8 Bombay:7 Madras:7 (our citizen)Bangalore:6 Lahore:6(our citizen) Karachi:5 (our citizen) Then add 1 to the value for each unit in the city.

As for Monarchy... I am not sure about trading details, but we should revolt before we make peace, since that way we are likely to have less turns in anarchy. But if you can make it the same turn, e.q. trade monarchy, revolt, make peace.
Isn't there a risk India will be less "giving" if we have different governments? If in Anarchy will India give us as many cities in the peace agreement?

I have checked the trade options and I guess my favourite is with Japan Constr. + 174 gold for Monarchy. then sell Construction to France for 100god+WM, Egypt for 38gold+2workers+WM and to Scandinavia for 47gold+4gpt.
Then sue for peace with India and finally revolt into anarchy. I do not want us to risk a lower offer from India due to differing governments...

I have no idea how government and offers AIs give correlate to each other, so I can't comment and shall trust you guys.

I was just thinking about that scout we built... It looks like it's useless since we won't be able to pop from GHs any technologies...
I understand we are researching the last AA tech and you can't pop tech you are currently researching. It is not possible to get MA tech from GH, so we simple sending scout to get 25 gold from the GHs or eqWorker in best scenario.

I have no idea how government and offers AIs give correlate to each other, so I can't comment and shall trust you guys.
AFAIK, same government gives better deals than different does. So I am afraid we might get a worse deal if we go to anarchy before peace with India.

I was just thinking about that scout we built... It looks like it's useless since we won't be able to pop from GHs any technologies...
I understand we are researching the last AA tech and you can't pop tech you are currently researching. It is not possible to get MA tech from GH, so we simple sending scout to get 25 gold from the GHs or eqWorker in best scenario.
Republic! :) The only tech left and one of the reasons I started on Currency. To be able to pop a government tech.

EDIT: Still asleep, Smackster? :D

AFAIK, same government gives better deals than different does. So I am afraid we might get a worse deal if we go to anarchy before peace with India.

Never heard about it, is there an article somewhere???


Republic! :) The onvly tech left and one of the reasons I started on Currency. To be able to pop a government tech.


Right, republic. Forgot about it. We may never use it, but it is good for trading.


EDIT: Still asleep, Smackster? :D

Hey, this is Sunday and this is america we are talking about here...
America population is split in two halves. Those who wake up early on sundays and head to churches and those who are asleep until noon because of drinking too much saturday night. In either case we won't see Smackster for another 2+ hours. :lol:

EDIT: Ok... Smackster is here... Here is just like me, the rare breed who's checking civfanatics forums early on sundays :)

No such luck, there are kids in the house here so I'm up early but not on-line. When I'm at my house, its just me so I'm on-line and in bed if its early :)

I'm afraid I did the first move last night, but we got four turn anarchy. Certainly the AI attitude is different based on government, but it made no difference in this case as we got those four cities. The scout popped the hut and got a map.

So we'll be in Monarchy soon. But I stopped as I realised I needed to start moving the horses to get to Karachi so needed to make that decision first.

I say go for the compromise and jump to Calcutta. Also there is a lot of unhappiness do to India unit popping, so getting that luxury hooked to the cities will really help, and it will take ages to get a road to Karachi, so another reason for that.

I'll see if I can sneak in a few turns now, and post what I get to, will finish by the end of the day.

I say go for the compromise and jump to Calcutta.
Calcutta and Delhi are ranked equally if I understand palace jump (according to McW's article) so as long as there are more units in Calcutta than anywhere else we should be OK. My very first palace jump!!! :)

150BC

Japan Monarchy for Construction and 175 gold
Revolt and we get 4 turns, which is ok
France 100 gold for Construction
America 60 gold for Monarchy (don't want to help them into MA, will be attacking soon, they may be in anarchy)
Egypt 2 workers 38 gold for Construction
Scandy 4 GPT and 46 gold for Construction
England 34 gold for Construction

Now we get peace with India, nearly forgot that :). 4 Cities and 37 gold. Wow

T1 130BC
Barb uprisings as the AI get Currency. There are two huts near Moscow.
Scout pops a hut and we get a map we already had.

We swap Monarchy for Currency with France, and we enter the MA. We get Mono. No other Scientific civs in this game, so no point giving anything away. We start on Feudalism.

We get 96 gold from Japan for Currency, 4 others already have it so its worth trading for good cash. None of the others have more than 12 gold, so no more trading.

Can't do phoney wars, as we are in anarchy and can't get embassies :(

T2 110BC
Delhi kept rioting so that it does not shrink
Scout back on galley who is going back west

T3 90BC
Horse kills a barb horse. Galley comes back round our island to the east, and sees some of the barbs that are on their way to Moscow

IBT

Arabia come threatening wanting Construction, can you beleive it. My plan had been to declare on France and get Arabia to join for techs. As our power is not great I don't want to have to pay hundreds of gold for an alliance. So I reluctantly give it up.

Galley with scout gets sunk by barb galley

T4 70BC
After I just started a war with France, and got Arabia to join for Currency and 120 gold

We become a Monarchy and I get no chance to look at the amount of beakers we are creating.

I got a BSOD crash, and now I have to go out, so you'll see the rest later.

To be sure about the jump I'm sending a few more troops over there. I know there is a tool out there, so I'll hunt that down too.

With Collossus Moscow is producing a lot of commerce, so I want to have a close look at that before I move it. Of course the barbs are-a-comin, so we might have to abandon it to save our gold.

All right.. we are monarchy and about to jump palace...
We won't be able to save Moscow from beeing sucked by barbarians and that i believe will happen soon.
I doubt we will generate as much commerce and beakers with 8 indian cities that Moscow did alone, but that will change soon...

Lets wait for the rest of the turns and I am sure Tomas is eager to jump into the game. :)

EDIT: This post is an example of the thread spam... while haven't said anything usefull but moved us one step forward to the Spam Laurel. I can't beat Smackster though. Even i was named the team's blabber mouth, somehow Smackster always beats me with the number of posts in the thread... :hmm: . Well, after all he is the captain and he is unconditionally better player than I. :D

Will we be able to save the workers waiting at "Dunkirk" or are there Barbs closing in? Hope the Galleys will have time for one more passage...

T4 70BC cont.

Iro is next to France and will join for Currency, so they are in against France.

T5 50BC

Just preparing for the jump to Calcutta

T6 30BC

T7 10BC
America come up with Republic

T8 10AD
At last the furs are hooked, up. The only reason to jump right now is, well ok there are a few reasons, No.1 is get the FP rolling, No.2 is THE BARBS ARE COMING

Jump is made, don't even do the maths. It obvious. Calcutta is our Capital. The commerce goes way down, but we need the FP. 25 turns now.

T9 30AD
Feud in 21 turns, commerce now close to pre jump levels. 2 workers bought from China for Monarchy. FP in 21.

IBT
America come threatening, for Mono, but we can't give them that, no way. War.

T10 50AD
Spain will join for Monarchy, Spain is America's neighbour. They are now at war

Our horses move to America's iron, cutting that is first objective. This may be a tough set of turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/50ad2.jpg

Technology
Don't trade the AI any MA techs until they have one that we don't have.

Wars
This American war is complex, as we don't quite have the troops we need in place. Cut their iron, and then take Boston/New York, as they are easier to take. Don't lose any cities, but don't be over defensive, hee hee, that is easy to say.

Score
Firaxis 136, we are 3rd from last. Look at the SG score graph, we have made a major jump, although with the palace jump our score will suffer.

Skips
As MjM has been absent since last played, and not returned my PM, now on auto skip. He can still play, but not without talking to us first.

dman
Wotan
smackster (just played)
tomasjj (playing)
MjM (currently on auto-skip)
Tarkeel (on deck)

As this will be tomassjj's first turn with us I request, waiting for full comment from the team and submitting a pre-game goals post, so that we are all clear about what is the plan.

Most of the challenging decisions are made for the next 10 turns, apart from managing the American war.

1) Horseman should be pulled from Karchi to help near Seattle.

2) Madras horseman should take a look north west to see if anything is coming from Seattle

3) Road is needed to Lahore

4) Army should be made available if needed. This is something the team should agree to

Right on.

Dont worry about any over-eager moves here.
I will just hang out here and participate in the discusson on what to do next.

I can play tonight when I get home. I wont be able to look at the save before then, so I might need some time first. I guess that will be ok as you guys in the new world are still fast asleep for some more hours.


Curious to see what kind of army the americans have...

jj

Good turns, Smackster. And nice to be at war with America. One very minor MMing issue; turn the Tax Collector in Lahore into a Scientist and we shave a turn off Feudalism.

Priorities:

1. New York
2. Atlanta

Probably 2 american spear in each of these so 4-5 horsemen should be enough. Turn the 3 Iron cutters south together with the straggling Horseman and the Lahore Horseman should do it. Using the hill east of New York as a gathering point for the attack will make them able to react to any American counteroffensive from Atlanta. Move across river and attack from NE to avoid river defensive bonus. (overkill to say that, right? ;) )

3. Seattle

When the 3 remaining units retreating from the ruins of Moscow make it across to our new lands, substitute the two 1MP units for the two Horsemen in Delhi and send 3 Horsemen together with the Horseman in Madras to take Seattle. Then move the HMs towards Boston.

4. Washington

Probably not during your turns jj but next on the list. As long as America focus on GWs we have little to fear. 3 GWs built now in Washington, New York and Philadelphia.

I would rather have us leave Chicago as a battlefield for Spain/America until we have cleared the remainder of America. So Boston, Miami, Philadelphia, Houston and Frisco first.

At this point Buffalo should have outgrown St.Louis and be the new American Capital. Sue for peace and grab St.Louis in the deal.

I all but finished India, now jj it is your turn to finish off America... :D

EDIT: Army: I would prefer to wait for Chivalry and Knights before we "cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war".

Ok, I’ve loaded the save and here are my suggestions:
Move units from galley to the city in adjusting tile before your 1st turn, that way galley will be ready to go back to pick up 3 units we've left on the main island.
Increase lux. slider to 20% and get horses out of Delhi to help fighting America, once you transport warrior and archer from our original island use those as MPs in Delhi and bring slider back to 0%
Mil. Advisor says we are weak comparing to Americans.
I’d rather postpone taking American cities until we have barracks build and start pumping horses to supply frontlines with backups.

I suggest we MUST CUT AMERICAN IRON. And once you cut it, it is easy to keep it disconnected - all you need to do is to show up with a horse or two 2 tiles away from the iron once every few turns, AI workers will stop road the iron and hide in city, just make sure your horses are not in danger when doing that trick. Once iron disconnected and they can't produce swords America will start producing horses instead, but there is no easy way to disconnect their horses.

Don't wait for American archers and swords to attack, attack first with horses, you will do more damage. Once barracks are built do not build defensive units, start pumping horses.

Improve land around Bombay and Calcutta. Calcutta can be a powerhouse with all the sheep it has. Try to improve Calcutta's land so it produces 15gpt to build horses every 2 turns. (won't happen during JJ's turn but we should work towards it)
Make sure Delhi never riots (or any other city for that matter), we can not afford wasting time on FP turns

At this time this war should last until we get a deal similar with what we have with India. We must not destroy America completely, but rather keep them around weak and use them to fill spaces with cities we can take over later.

Increase lux. slider to 20% and get horses out of Delhi to help fighting America, once you transport warrior and archer from our original island use those as MPs in Delhi and bring slider back to 0%.
Not sure about that. It depends on how many beakers we lose, getting to Knights ASAP is another priority. See my plans in my previous post, The Delhi HMs can wait for the units from Moscow before moving into action.
Mil. Advisor says we are weak comparing to Americans.
I’d rather postpone taking American cities until we have barracks build and start pumping horses to supply frontlines with backups..
No reason to hesitate now. We are playing a "Regent" game. America will not have more than two units in any city except Washington and as long as W. is <7 in size it will probably have 4 units. If there are more units they are there because they have just been built but 3 units should be an exception. 4-5 Horsemen in place vs. all cities but W. = ATTACK!!! Every turn America owns a city it will produce gold, pop and shields we need to destroy their economy too. There were 2 units in all Indian cities I took but Delhi and only 3 there... America will not have more. We need to be aggressive if we are to win this game!
I suggest we MUST CUT AMERICAN IRON. And once you cut it, it is easy to keep it disconnected - all you need to do is to show up with a horse or two 2 tiles away from the iron once every few turns, AI workers will stop road the iron and hide in city, just make sure your horses are not in danger when doing that trick. Once iron disconnected and they can't produce swords America will start producing horses instead, but there is no easy way to disconnect their horses..
Only if America send Workers to the Iron no need to show ourselves unless that happens. RE. AI Horsemen, in my experience AI tend to build Archers before HMs. I have no idea why but I seldom meet AI HMs, unless the tribe has a UU that is a HM derivate.
Don't wait for American archers and swords to attack, attack first with horses, you will do more damage.
Yes, but make sure you chose the battle ground! Wait until they are in open terrain if possible. Calcutta have a perfect defensive position in this regard, no hills, swamps or other terrain w. defensive bonuses next to it! :)

EDIT: America has 11 cities = probably 23-24 garrison warriors/spearmen. We have 14 units add americas "freelancing" units (Archers and a few Swordsmen) and they have more than 2-1 ratio. BUT, the majority will only come into action when we decide it since they are city garrisons. All but 2 of our units are HMs they are up against a similar number of american units, but a few of those americans are probably fighting the spaniards. SO, all in all, ATTACK! :)

Yes, but make sure you chose the battle ground! Wait until they are in open terrain if possible. Calcutta have a perfect defensive position in this regard, no hills, swamps or other terrain w. defensive bonuses next to it! :)

I hear you. D-man and you argue attack, which is logical here.

That however makes it more difficult to choose battleground, unless you are talking about the american counterattack (being a regent game I cant see that happening in a large scale).

Aren't we going for New York and Atlanta/Boston? Then we won't be fighting a lot outside of Calcutta?

Increase lux. slider to 20% and get horses out of Delhi to help fighting America, once you transport warrior and archer from our original island use those as MPs in Delhi and bring slider back to 0%.

I will look at this in regard to Wotans thoughts in relation to science rate.


Say, when we get the yank cities are we building horsemen or what?

jj

That however makes it more difficult to choose battleground, unless you are talking about the american counterattack (being a regent game I cant see that happening in a large scale).

Aren't we going for New York and Atlanta/Boston? Then we won't be fighting a lot outside of Calcutta?
More of an observation, I agree the fighting will be minimum on our turf. Just a discussion before your first turns on the team... I am sure you are well aquainted with Civ but it is better to be safe than sorry. ;) Your comments signal it loud and clear! You are no rookie, I am sorry if I came across as patronizing, not my intention as I am sure you understand.
Say, when we get the yank cities are we building horsemen or what?
Would like to have rax before building HM. No reason to build regulars.

More of an observation, I agree the fighting will be minimum on our turf. Just a discussion before your first turns on the team... I am sure you are well aquainted with Civ but it is better to be safe than sorry. Your comments signal it loud and clear! You are no rookie, I am sorry if I came across as patronizing, not my intention as I am sure you understand

Dont worry, mate.

I would rather have you guys continue with the details. Its still useful for me, even though I have played some civ.
Always small details there to consider :)

I guess we should have more time for discussion, with smackster taking part, before I play later on tonight.

Also, I want to look carefully at the save first.


JJ

I think we are all agreed on the way to proceed, 1) cut the iron, 2) take New York.

I can't see the full map right now, but I'm sure Wotan has the right mix of troops movement suggestions. Note these are all just suggestions, obviously you have to play it as you see it, based on what America does.

Note that I did get an alliance with Spain, so peace with America is not so easy. It actually occured to me that I might have been hasty with the Spanish deal, but its what I would have done in a solo game, and I felt that we needed that with the impromptu American war. I felt it is an absolute priority to slow the AI so don't give them any MA techs.

Right now alliances are expensive as we are weak. If we make peace with America I think the price of future alliances will go up. However, it might be something that does not matter. Once we are strong enough, we will have the cash to get those allianes, and once we have Knights, we probably don't need any alliances.

Not sure about that. It depends on how many beakers we lose, getting to Knights ASAP is another priority. See my plans in my previous post, The Delhi HMs can wait for the units from Moscow before moving into action.


Science is set to 80% now, if you set lux to 20% we will still run our business with low positive GPTs. I say don't wait move those horses out of Delhi to increase probability of success


Only if America send Workers to the Iron no need to show ourselves unless that happens. RE. AI Horsemen, in my experience AI tend to build Archers before HMs. I have no idea why but I seldom meet AI HMs, unless the tribe has a UU that is a HM derivate.


They do build Horses if they don't have iron and know horseback riding...
Trust me on that, saw it hundreds of times. :) . But as soon as they learn how to make longbows, that's when they quit building horses and switch to longbows exclusively.

Note that I did get an alliance with Spain, so peace with America is not so easy. It actually occured to me that I might have been hasty with the Spanish deal, but its what I would have done in a solo game, and I felt that we needed that with the impromptu American war. I felt it is an absolute priority to slow the AI so don't give them any MA techs.


So what, no reason to make peace with America anytime soon.... lets see how the game goes, and if they give us all their cities but Wash. then we will think about breaking the aliance with Spain, otherwise just keep fighting...

Science is set to 80% now, if you set lux to 20% we will still run our business with low positive GPTs. I say don't wait move those horses out of Delhi to increase probability of success

They do build Horses if they don't have iron and know horseback riding...
Trust me on that, saw it hundreds of times. :) . But as soon as they learn how to make longbows, that's when they quit building horses and switch to longbows exclusively.
Yes, I tend to agree that we could move the Delhi horsemen, although building the FP is priority over everything else.

Even though they might build horses, lets not worry about that, just cut the iron and take New York.

Reminder
Don't raze any cities, only attack when we can capture.

So what, no reason to make peace with America anytime soon.... lets see how the game goes, and if they give us all their cities but Wash. then we will think about breaking the aliance with Spain, otherwise just keep fighting...
I Agree with you on this, needs to be a team decision to break that alliance. Of course as we are weak, there is a chance Spain will break it first.

Anyone looked at our score graph. I'm sure Klarius is gnawing at his keyboard, although that could be dangerous, have to keep plugging away on this.

Note that I did get an alliance with Spain, so peace with America is not so easy. It actually occured to me that I might have been hasty with the Spanish deal, but its what I would have done in a solo game, and I felt that we needed that with the impromptu American war.
Agree with you on getting the alliance. America will have to divide their non-garrison units to fight on two fronts. Should make our thrust into American lands that much easier...

So what, no reason to make peace with America anytime soon.... lets see how the game goes, and if they give us all their cities but Wash. then we will think about breaking the aliance with Spain, otherwise just keep fighting...
Washington has to fall. Two reasons. We want the new American capital in X(near Arabia, do not remember the name) to lower flip risk and to have America give us a "good" peace agreement. I would like to continue this war until only size 1 cities remain on mainland and then get them in the peace deal.

Science is set to 80% now, if you set lux to 20% we will still run our business with low positive GPTs. I say don't wait move those horses out of Delhi to increase probability of success

They are not needed ATM. Better leave them until they are joined by the Moscow straggler and move on Seattle-Boston together with the Madras HM as AG East. 4 HMs

The AG West consists of Iron cutters plus HM near Lahore. Target New York and city south of it. 6HM less possible losses due to American counterattacks on Iron cutters.

Then they meet at Washington and take it. This should be enough.

If we send the two in Delhi north now there are only 3 HMs going towards Seattle and that might be a bit thin. If they go towards New York we will have 7 HMs going there which is overkill and leaves us waiting for another force to take Seattle. Calcutta/Bombay rax are ready in 3/4 turns and should we have bad luck with rng yet again they can rush a couple of HMs to repair the damage. But if we succeed we are in a good position. I say we go without too much safety in numbers. Divide the forces and go in two prongs. there is also a HM onboard the Galley...

Yes, I tend to agree that we could move the Delhi horsemen, although building the FP is priority over everything else.

Even though they might build horses, lets not worry about that, just cut the iron and take New York.

Reminder
Don't raze any cities, only attack when we can capture.


Ah, yes. Sometimes I have seen that I get the choice to raze or keep 1 sized cities, other times not. What are the criteria??
jj

Ah, yes. Sometimes I have seen that I get the choice to raze or keep 1 sized cities, other times not. What are the criteria??
jj

Cities with pop 1 and with no accumulated culture can not be taken but auto-razed only.
You can see if city has culture by the size of it's borders... if city expanded its borders but still size one you can capture it safely, otherwise avoid size 1 cities

cheers!

Will look at the save now after returning a dvd...
Then look at it for a while and hopefully play in a couple of hours time.


There is a lot of info here after the last moves, so I will have to try and map it out :)

JJ

cheers!

Will look at the save now after returning a dvd...
Then look at it for a while and hopefully play in a couple of hours time.

There is a lot of info here after the last moves, so I will have to try and map it out :)

JJ
Don't worry about taking your time, or only playing some of the moves. I basically took all weekend to play mine.

Watch out for America pop rushing, a size 2 city can suddenly be size 1. In fact first thing to do, take a look at what Govnt America is, as they will only do that if Despot of course.

Note
Be warned about the AI threatening us, happened twice in my turns, and had to give Construction to Arabia, and got into war with America.

I suggest its ok to fight any of the overseas AI, they will mount no offensive against us, so you can easily tell them where to go. In all cases do not give up any MA techs.

If the AI comes up with Fuedalism, then its worth checking with the team about what price we think that is worth.

Watch out for America pop rushing, a size 2 city can suddenly be size 1. In fact first thing to do, take a look at what Govnt America is, as they will only do that if Despot of course.

Very good advice, that can also happen if America build a worker or a settler...

SGOTM4 official results are here...
We are on the 3rd place as it was expected...
Congratulations to the team for showing good and stable results in past two games..
We ought to do better this time though. :goodjob:

Guys,

I will go through the thread since last turns now, and do a write up of what has been agreed upon, or what I think has been agreed.

Then I will post a list here of "to do's."

Then you can confirm, and if I have any issues during turns I will drop a line.

JJ

Guys,

I will go through the thread since last turns now, and do a write up of what has been agreed upon, or what I think has been agreed.

Then I will post a list here of "to do's."

Then you can confirm, and if I have any issues during turns I will drop a line.

JJ
The fact that you are talking to us, and obviously reading the posts means that I'm sure you know what to do. The problem we've had in the past is players not reading all our posts (there can be a lot of them :)) and then playing it opposite to what we all agreed.

Tomas, take your time and i am sure we will hear good news from you :)

and it looks like MjM has withdrawn himself from the team.
He used to have "soccer mom style" signature which is gone now.

Ok.

Pri:

1. Unhook Iron.
2. Form two Army Groups. One takes NY, other Seattle.

And naturally, road to Lahore, get troops over from the old island, hook up wool (I couldnt see that towns had wool in their lux box? Strange.)


Pre turn:
- MManage. (Actually by switching to scientist AND switching from BG to horses in bombay we make feudalism in 18, the shield is wasted anyway.)
- Galley unload.
- Scout towards Seattle.

But shall the HM in Karachi join the Army East Seattle?

And what is the conclusion on those two Deli horsemen and lux tax slider?

JJ

- MManage. (Actually by switching to scientist AND switching from BG to horses in bombay we make feudalism in 18, the shield is wasted anyway.)
Well spotted! :)


- But shall the HM in Karachi join the Army East Seattle?
I actually forgot about that HM! :blush: Make use of it!

- And what is the conclusion on those two Deli horsemen and lux tax slider?

I would wait until the final HM arrives from Moscow. Or maybe you can make use of the HM in Karachi? I just feel a bit worried about going in with 3 HMs. 4 feels more safe but not "overkill".

I would wait until the final HM arrives from Moscow. Or maybe you can make use of the HM in Karachi? I just feel a bit worried about going in with 3 HMs.
4 feels more safe but not "overkill".

That is why i never have a good score in GOTMs... I would never never attack an american city like unless i have 8 horsemen. :) :blush:

2 horses per spear defender is about right for a size 6 city. So when I'm feeling lucky, I'll go with 3.

SGOTM4 official results are here...
We are on the 3rd place as it was expected...
Congratulations to the team for showing good and stable results in past two games..
We ought to do better this time though. :goodjob:
Only 5 turns behind Offa in the end, closer than I thought. Not sure that we could have done much more really. Now we do seem to have good results, but need to get that killer instinct and win one.

I'm still here , if you still want me here that is , I was grounded on a very short notice and am back now will will write some things soon tonight definetly tonight.

Guys,
No playing last night, only planning ahead.
Good thing though is that now everything is set up. (But then, everything might change after turn 2... :) )

Two small issues though:

You reckon the Indians wont hold too much of a grudge and take Karachi back if we leave it undefended? He does have two spears on the walkabout in the area.

Also, There wont be anything coming out of Atlanta, heading eastwards ( I know its a small town, but, hey...still)?

JJ

You reckon the Indians wont hold too much of a grudge and take Karachi back if we leave it undefended? He does have two spears on the walkabout in the area.
India is so weak an attack is unlikely. It would speed up the attack on Seattle if we could use that HM as the fourth HM in AG east instead of having to wait for the HM from Moscow to arrive.

Also, There wont be anything coming out of Atlanta, heading eastwards ( I know its a small town, but, hey...still)?

If you use the hill east of NY as a gathering point for the attack, any activity from Atlanta could be intercepted by HMs.

Oh the Irony. Friday was the only day I did have time to play :(

I'm afraid I'll have to stay out of this game, or atleast be put on autoskip till the 16th

I'm still here , if you still want me here that is , I was grounded on a very short notice and am back now will will write some things soon tonight definetly tonight.
Sure, but can you devote enough time to read the posts and play this? There are plenty of SG's around that are pretty casual, but this is not one of them.

Also I never saw from you an explanation of why only three horses appear to have been built in your last turns. Did you forget to MM Moscow? I realise that you had little time in the writeup, but we do expect to read about any new units built right now, especially when there was only one city. But seriously if you find that you don't have time to write "Moscow Horseman->Horseman" for each turn then you should take a skip.

smackster

India is so weak an attack is unlikely. It would speed up the attack on Seattle if we could use that HM as the fourth HM in AG east instead of having to wait for the HM from Moscow to arrive.

Agreed you can basically discount India for a long time. In the event that they attack us again, it will make it easy to take the rest of their cities. Especially when we still have a 20 turn peace in place, they are unlikely to break that. This is the kind of calucated risk you need to take in Civ, very small chance they will attack, and if they do their damage will probably be restricted to that single city.

Guys,
No playing last night, only planning ahead.
Good thing though is that now everything is set up. (But then, everything might change after turn 2... :) )

JJ
As its your first time with us, this is good. In general most turns are not that difficult so you should be able to take it and play. In fact if you keep up with the discussions, then you should not need so much planning, of course this changes if you hit a major decision point, that has not been discussed. Like at the weekend, I felt that we had not agreed on going to Monarchy, but felt it was the right time to do that switch, so posted and waited.

Right on, fellas.
I will get on with the turns tonight.
Exciting times ahead :)

JJ

Right on, fellas.
I will get on with the turns tonight.
Exciting times ahead :)

JJ
What time do you start, it would be good to hear that you are playing this.

In a few minutes...

:)

JJ

So far:

50AD

Pre turn:

Switch Taxman to scientist in Lahore. Switch to working horsetile in Bombay.
Gives us Feudalism in 18 turns(Instead of 20).
Madras Horseman sent scouting towards Seattle.
HM in Karachi go towards Madras to enlist for Army Group Seattle.

IBT:

An archer approaches our scouting Horseman south of Seattle.
Egypt builds the Pyramids.
Yanks are switching to build Hanging Gardens and Great Library.
Many other civs are wonderbuilding too.


Turn 1 - 70 AD:

Moving troops up from Moscow we encounter a barb horseman. I send in our warrior, he wins and gets upgraded to vet.
Retreat from archer in jungle outside Seattle in attempt to use workers as a magnet to draw him out on the plains. We dont have
the army group up yet.
American swordsman spotted north of Atlanta. 3 Horsemen on iron now.

IBT:

Two American swordsmen get into Washington.
An american settler and warrior is unloaded at Dunkirk (our embarkment point north on our old island.)


Turn 2 90 AD:

Iron is unhooked. Our horsemen retreat to regroup outside of NY.
Horseman beats american warrior and enslaves the settler.

IBT:
Barracks in Calcutta - Horseman.
One of our horsemen are redlined when withdrawing from Washington.

Turn 3

Gathering troops towards NY.

I am a bit torn here as to kill some yank swords or just cruise towards NY.
At least the one sword outside of NY is in the way if we dont just move around east. That wont work though. He will still be there when we gather for the assault....


Lemme see if I can get u a picture of it here.....
jj

Everything looks like it was planned so far....
Picture would be nice.
If there are only one or two swords around, you probably can ignore them.
Once you take New York they will turn around trying to attack our units in New York. (default AI's behaviour i think).

I trust in your best judgement here.

Good turns so far!

The wounded Swordsman can be ignored. The Swordsman NE of NY OTOH have to be dealt with... If I understand the situation correctly you will attack NY in 2-3 turns time? Depending on the outcome of the Swordsman attack.

Well, yeah.
Attack New York in 3 turns most probably.
Must try to deal with that swordsman first though.

JJ

Its hard to advise, as I'm not sure how many horses you have in those stacks. My preference is to pick off their swords, unless we have overwelming horses that will take the cities. Even the wounded one, if its the horses first move, I'd pick it off and pull back.
As they have no iron, this is just guaranteeing that we'll take the cities when we come back with the full force.

BTW, tomassjj, can you really be sure where you are going without the grid?

BTW, tomassjj, can you really be sure where you are going without the grid?
I guess it is old age that takes its toll in our cases... The eyesight do deteriorate rapidly nowadays. :) I need the grid too!!!

Early start tomorrow morning but I just have to read the final report from jj before going to bed...

Gird or no grid? Well, I have never used it and I am fine....

However, update:

Turn 3 - 110 AD:

Gathering troops towards NY.
Our horseman is victorious in the battle north of NY. He looses two hp.

IBT:

Mongols want Currency or else.... They are far far away and insignificant -
so we tell them to pack their bags. War? No, they dont dare.

Zulu are more demanding, they want monotheism, or else.... War!! Shaka has balls.

Bombay - Barracks to HM.

Turn 4 - 130 AD:

Not much.
Trade the World Maps again for 1 gold all around.
Troops onwards to Seattle, and most of the other ones on hill east of NY now.

IBT:

Brennus wants currency. No. He backs out.

Turn 5 - 150 AD:

Troops are almost ready now for NY.
We take out an archer near Seattle in our approach.

Turn 6 - 170 AD:

American Reinforments on the way to NY!! Attack is imminent.
The old continent is now empty.

Attack on NY. We have 4 HM and one in the area to deal with whatever.
We succed in taking out two Spears, but the last injured Spear (2hp) kills our Elite HM!!
We have 2 HM outside of NY and there is only one Spear left in NY with 2HP.
But our other skirmishing HM died in the attempt to protect the rear of the remaining horses from
an incoming Swordsman. The Yanks also have an archer there. Damn!


It looks like we have to regroup...and then attack NY again. Horseman finished next turn in Calcutta
and another one is already in Bombay arriving this turn.

What are your calls team?

Well, I guess that you are as disappointed as I am.
The gathering of the army groups probably took too much time, or at least so much that the yanks could get enough to stall us seriously.

Anyway, I wont play any more tonight before I get any responses from you guys on the strategy further.

JJ

Darn bad luck on NY. Pity he had time to build a third Spearman there. Since the Archer will attack the HMs everything probably depends on that attack. If the rng reverses and gives us a bit of luck we might even survive the attack to have two HMs left. Send reinforcements!!! Take NY!! :)

When will you play the final turns? Tomorrow night? Earlier/later?

Nite! Have an early flight tomorrow but will check in whenever possible...

I think I will just retreat into the mountains to heal and then bring in whatever we still got as reinforcements. We should probably have 4 horsemen there in no more than 2-3 turns.

We are attacking Seattle the next turn too, so maybe Lady Luck will smile to us then (and when we hit NY again :) ) We got 4 HM at the gates, and my feeling is that this one we wil get on the first attempt.

Hm.. I could do them now and be done.
I just wanted some comments first.
What do you say? Play on?

JJ

Bloody as it is, you have to keep plugging away. Build more horses, rush some horses, wear them down.

So I agree, regroup, and go back in with another 3-4 horses. As the main spears are gone it should be easier to take this time.

If you can't do anymore tonight, at least post the save. edit: I mean post it here so we can look at it

I can do it now, if you are cool with that.
JJ

Yes, I think you should keep playing.

OK.
On the move now.
JJ

Gird or no grid? Well, I have never used it and I am fine....

You'll need it with this team, do I hear you say RCP

I rush HM in Bombay for 96 gold. Expensive, but, I think, NY must be taken swiftly.

IBT:

Elite HM survives attack from swordsman. Other injured vet HM die at the hands of archer outside NY.
Calcutta: HM - HM
Bombay: HM - HM

Turn 7 - 190 AD:

Our troops (3 HM) gather on the hills west of Bombay.

Attack on Seattle. We have 4 HM outside it.

We take Seattle, loosing one vet HM in the process, getting another one upgraded to elite!
They had two spears and one archer there. We also got us a worker from it. Production set to barracks.

IBT:

A spearman moving towards NY.
We quell 1 resister in Seattle. 2 left.
Borders expand around Calcutta.

Turn 8 - 210 AD:

We can get the republic now since more than 3 have it, but we dont want to give up monotheism.

IBT:

Resistance in Seattle ends.
And spear outside of NY passes the city together with a settler! How appropriate at this time...

Turn 9 - 230 AD:

Troops gather outside NY.
Scouting towards Boston, cant really tell what to expect there.
It seems Abe is busy colonizing new land, or may I say, our old homeland....The old Russia will become "The Promised Land "
for the Americans... how ironic... :)

IBT: Pikes are sharpened as we get ready for NY revisited.

Archer attacks our stack outside NY, our vet HM wins, loosing only one HP.
Calutta HM - HM
Abe has two swords moving towards Boston. We need to unhook again it seems.

Turn 10 (last) - 250 AD:

Attack on NY.

Abe has 3 spears again. We take out two and redline the last one, loosing only one vet horseman.
We have 4 at the gates now, and the table should be set for the next player to take.
At least more luck this time.

Two swords east of Boston too, heading towards Seattle. No troops seen outside of NY.



We will have Feudalism in 6 at loosing 2 gpt, and FP done in 9.

Tired now, so I might have missed some MM issues.

JJ

Beeing pessimistic person I expected bad RNG at NY :) .
But things are still just fine, haven't looked at the save though yet, don't have much time..
Tomas, you need to upload your save using official upload form, instead of using attachments.

Crap: Americans have roaded their Iron again :mad: . I will shoot Abraham personally

@Smackster: what does the "GOTM (semi-retired)" mean?

Long story short i have to be skipped until saturday.

edit: there were only 3 horses cause i did forget to MM moscow.

@Smackster: what does the "GOTM (semi-retired)" mean?
Wondered when you guys would ask that. I'm not playing GOTM anymore, although I might sneak in the odd one now and then. Just takes too much time to finish them.

I'll stick to SG's mainly.

Looking at save now.

smackster

OK, things look good, nice progress, tough going, but we are sure to come through this. BTW you need to post the save to the submission page, you want to see where our score is right? Don't worry I'll do it.

I see that they have hooked up the iron again, that was damn quick, may need more than that horse to cut it, but we should try with that one.

I worry about those two swords to the north, but the three horses should be able to take them, and Seattle can rush an archer if need be.

After New York is taken, we may want to take Washington, we can rush a horse in Bombay and the following turn Calcutta.
Our workers need to start building a road towards Washington. With only 10 turns left in our Spanish deal, worth trying to play out the 10 turns before peace. America will give us one city now, but clearly we want a lot more than that.

I think bring the archer from Delhi, and push the luxury slider, we need every troop we can get.

The deals against France end in 4 turns, and France will already give us a city for peace, so wait those turns and get it.

I've got the save but i will play tomorrow night when we hear everyone's opinions. :)

Roster

For some reason I thought Wotan was up, but no, its dman.

dman (playing)
Wotan (on deck)
smackster )
tomasjj (just played)
MjM (skipped)
Tarkeel (auto skip)

Ok,
here is my plan.
1. I am taking NY my 1st turn. American spear will most likely heal, so it can take more than 1HM with bad RNG luck.

2. 3 horses near Seatle should take care about couple of American swords..

3. I will cut American Iron ASAP again.

4. After NY is taken, next target - Atlanta. I need just one more horse around NY to safely take atlanta. I am going to get a horse out of Calcutta and send it to help capturing Atlanta. We will have to increase tax slider and feudalism will be researched in 7 turns instead of 6, but i believe one more city taken earlier from America is more important than 1 turn faster research.
(edit: Actually, I can cash rush horse in Bombay instead, that will be a better solution i didn't think about)

5. It is very important to improve tiles around Bombay, Calcutta and Delhi.
I am going to road 2 forest tiles near Delhi, Mine irrigated square near calcutta and irrigate planes. And in just few turns Calcutta will be able to produce much needed 15gpt for 2 turn horse built.

6. Slave is working on road in jungle tile near Seatle. It will take him whopping 16 turns. I am planning to stop that and send him to help with Calcutta tile improvements. I think Seatle can wait at this moment.

7. After Atlanta is taken our forces will be way too disperced around. We will have to wait few turns and build more horses. I doubt i will be able to do anything else during my turns.

8. Oh, one more thing. I will definetely try to cut American horses during my turns though. It will be easier to do when NY is ours.

EDIT: There is an Indian slave mining a tile outside of Delhi city limits (to be completed in 1 turn)... we will need that tile when Delhi expands, but that's not going to happen in next 12 turns i believe, slave could have been used for something better for that matter. Not picking at Tomas here, somebody got it that way 12 turns ago (time it takes for slave to mine). :)

Wondered when you guys would ask that. I'm not playing GOTM anymore, although I might sneak in the odd one now and then. Just takes too much time to finish them.

I'll stick to SG's mainly.

Looking at save now.

smackster

I wonder if you had to give up your second hobby - football as well..
With all the kids around.... looks like somebody is preparing to settle down.... :mischief:

I wonder if you had to give up your second hobby - football as well..
With all the kids around.... looks like somebody is preparing to settle down.... :mischief:
That's funny, been there, seen that and done it. I have two children.

As for hobbies, Football always comes first, but you know's that just a few hours a week. The problem with GOTM is that I feel like I can win any game now, and generally its obvious after a couple of hours play, but I need to play another 20 hours to finish it, and to try for the top 5 another 40 hours. Time to play something else. The SG's are different, and I think I'll look for some others, I'd certainly like SCOTM.

smackster

I think you should also rush horses this turn and next. Atlanta will probably fall easily, then take Washington. My feeling is to go for the jugular, and hit Washington before Atlanta, but you need to make that judgement, or see what Wotan says.

My calculations would be:
no more than 2 spears in Atlanta...
About 3-4 spears and at least one sword in Wash.

My calculations would be:
no more than 2 spears in Atlanta...
About 3-4 spears and at least one sword in Wash.
Sure before the start of their 2-front war. What about Atlanta is that not next to the Spanish? I might send one to Atlanta to have a look, and the rest to Washington. Just make sure they all attack on the same turn.

You'll need it with this team, do I hear you say RCP


Hehe- luckily we dont have to worry about RCP in this game. Also, that is one of the aspects I find a bit anal about this game, takes out a bit of the fun with all these calculations. I like to place my cities where I think there is a nice spot.

Anyway, in competition games like this one, I would naturally cave in and obey the RCP laws.

Ah. Yes, regarding the turns:

@d-man: yeah, I take responability for that worker roading the jungle. I was kind of lost on what to do since there wasnt much to do around Madras and made a bad desicion. I saw the other worker mining outside city limits aswell, but did nada. :(

But what I really should've been paying attention to was the iron re-hooking. I should've scouted with a horse turn 3 or 4 I guess, but then I used all horses for the build up towards NY. In hindsight, I guess I am kind of surprised at the industriousness of Abe's work hands, but still, it was an oversight on my account.

Besides that I dont think I could've done anything a lot different. Just bad luck with the roll.


@Smackster: Sorry about the save being posted only here. I was real tired when I finished playing last night. Thanks for doing it for me.
(You a football fan? How very cool. I am a huge fan myself. You have a team you follow, in England or in the US?)


JJ

Quick comment, will have more for you when I am back home tonight.

Well done jj! Two cities!!!
Atlanta before Washington. It does not cost that much but we will be able to head on west after Washington wo having to divert units south to take Atlanta. And no risk of any American "guerillas" appearing from it to disrupt our rear...

Hehe- luckily we dont have to worry about RCP in this game. Also, that is one of the aspects I find a bit anal about this game, takes out a bit of the fun with all these calculations. I like to place my cities where I think there is a nice spot.

Anyway, in competition games like this one, I would naturally cave in and obey the RCP laws.
AFAIK, beginning next SG M-B have announced his intention to open it for Conquest. Do all on the team play Conquest? I prefer playing it, since it has addressed the RCP issue. Among other things, like rushing GWs

AFAIK, beginning next SG M-B have announced his intention to open it for Conquest. Do all on the team play Conquest? I prefer playing it, since it has addressed the RCP issue. Among other things, like rushing GWs


I would prefer Conquests.

JJ

The next game will support conquests, and will use the GOTM bix (so no SGLs for instance). The only proviso is that there are enough people interested to make it viable. Also the conquest teams will play for a different award. We will take the opportunity to study the differences in scores and such between the two versions however. :)

Then I hope we will play conquest game (SCOTM i presume??) as the same team again. :)

and back to game... That was what i thought - taking Atlanta before anything else...
Washington has pop 9 so it has extra defence... I'd say we would need at least 7 to 8 horses to take it safely. I would hate to leave there wounded spears just to attack them again next turn after they heal.

taking Atlanta before anything else...
Washington has pop 9 so it has extra defence... I'd say we would need at least 7 to 8 horses to take it safely. I would hate to leave there wounded spears just to attack them again next turn after they heal.


Agree on that, but again, what is the deal with Boston? Arent we gonna do something on that flank? Abe wont gives us such a large city for peace.

JJ

Agree on that, but again, what is the deal with Boston? Arent we gonna do something on that flank? Abe wont gives us such a large city for peace.

JJ
I haven't seen the save yet but the plan was to move on from Seattle and take Boston before converging on Washington.

Also when rushing units please look for "short-rush" opportunities. A city with about 5-6 spt rush Spearman after first turn of production then switch to Horseman for a total of 3 turns production time and 15 shields @ 4 gold =60 gold. If the city produce 10 shields you start with producing 10 shields then rush a spearman, switch to Horseman and it finishes in two turns at the extra cost of only 40 gold.

It will be hard to take Boston anytime soon.
We have 3 horses near Seatle but 2 american swords are moving in that direction... I am not sure what our losses are going to be when picking up those swords.
We will have to wait for re-inforcements before we can take Boston...
and actually Boston is an easier target comparing to Wash.
I haven't looked what American cities are building GWs, those would be the easier to capture since they can't reinforce defense.

And also, what, if any american city, already has a wonder....

I think the general criteria for peace with America is
1) Spanish alliance expired
2) At least 2-3 cities in peace deal
3) Their capital is off shore

Until this time, keep hitting them.

I too would like to play an SCOTM game. I like conquests, apart from the armies being too strong, if I could either I would stop them healing so quickly, or set the movement to standard. Either way you still need the grid :)

And also, what, if any american city, already has a wonder....

We will use that wonder for our benefits after we capture that city :)

I think the general criteria for peace with America is
1) Spanish alliance expired
2) At least 2-3 cities in peace deal
3) Their capital is off shore


I also see no reason to stop war with America (the only exceptions are given above), we will be getting stronger with each turn and America will be weakening... and no alliance extention with Spain....

And no alliance extension with Arabia/Iroqois. Get peace with France for a city.

I also expect the AI to get Mono/Fued at some point soon. So once that is in play, then use it with any that dont' have it to start another alliance. Just be careful who is picked.
In fact we may want to turn the French war round, and ally with France against Arabia, as we should turn our eyes to them as soon as America is toasted.

I understand we switch to Chivalry as soon as we get Feud. right?

And also, what, if any american city, already has a wonder....
I'm not sure if they built any, although there are lot being built in various places.

My football team is QPR, although its hard to follow them long distance. I watch more games of Baseball these days, although still play football a couple of times a week.

I understand we switch to Chivalry as soon as we get Feud. right?
Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I remember SGOTM2, when my team started on Theology, before Chivalry, and then the next player had science set at 10%. I'd written a list of tasks, which included get Chivalry ASAP. GRRRRrrr.

edit: this was the game where I put in the writeup, that each time I got the save, I just wanted to :cry:

Hey, you got yourself a much better team this time around ;)
All we need to do is to sit tight and wait for Wotan to come home, load the save and give some instructions so i can play tonight...
Well... I am expecting "Bourne Supremacy" and "Kill BIll Vol. 2" to arrive from Netflix tonight, so i will have to manage between playing and watching new movies on my brand new HDTV :)

EDIT: With all the spam i produce, i've generated my 1000th message in less than a year of being on this forum! Yeah!!! :D . Haven't noticed until now

Hey, you got yourself a much better team this time around ;)
All we need to do is to sit tight and wait for Wotan to come home, load the save and give some instructions so i can play tonight...
Well... I am expecting "Bourne Supremacy" and "Kill BIll Vol. 2" to arrive from Netflix tonight, so i will have to manage between playing and watching new movies on my brand new HDTV :)

He's travelling, so you can't be sure he'll look. I suggest you play it either way as there are not really any hard decisions, we've kind of all agreed to take Atlanta (don't forget to visit the underground and buckhead), and Boston (duck tour), and merge on Washington.

If we take one or not the other, then you may have a decision as to how to help the other. For instance if you take Atlanta, and Boston is tougher (with those swords), then I would question moving the Atlanta horses all the way up to Boston to help. Rather help should be sent from Calcutta. The Atlanta horses should arrive at Washington, in time for you to bring the Boston horses to bear. Easy really.

On my way to Heathrow now, the wonders of modern technology... If the plane is not delayed, standard operating procedure at Heathrow... :( But once in a while the planes actually take off on time (within 20 minutes of schedule must be regarded as on time from here.) I will be home around 8PM GMT, I hope!!!

On my way to Heathrow now, the wonders of modern technology... If the plane is not delayed, standard operating procedure at Heathrow... :( But once in a while the planes actually take off on time (within 20 minutes of schedule must be regarded as on time from here.) I will be home around 8PM GMT, I hope!!!
Where are you then, if you are not at Heathrow. Are you on wireless, I can't believe how much money I spend on joining hotspots in airports and hotels. Although I feel its value for money when I can browse from the bar at Heathrow.

Next step will be internet on the plane.

smackster

I just browse from the Business lounges I manage to blag my way into. I wonder how many machines in the world have my cookie on them? :hmm:

I just browse from the Business lounges I manage to blag my way into. I wonder how many machines in the world have my cookie on them? :hmm:
Yea that's even nicer when its free, but somehow I just have to make the most of my bar time when in England. Nothing really beats sitting in a bar at Heathrow playing Civ. How many other people do you know that are happy when there is a flight delay :)

Yea that's even nicer when its free, but somehow I just have to make the most of my bar time when in England. Nothing really beats sitting in a bar at Heathrow playing Civ. How many other people do you know that are happy when there is a flight delay :)

For some reasons I like bar at the Gatwick airport better than Heathrow's :)

Well I tend to like Gatwick better, but all the flights to Boston are Heathrow

Well I tend to like Gatwick better, but all the flights to Boston are Heathrow
I'm back home now! Plane just 20 minutes late from LHR. I always go through LHR. Have never travelled via Gatwick or Stansted. Either jumping on Piccadilly Line or the HE is such a bonus.

And on internet access, Yes I have a mobile connect card (3g/GRPS) in my laptop if that explains things for you. But I prefer to use a computer in one of Star Alliance lounges if possible. Saves the company some money...

I DLed the save earlier and spent the flight home looking at the save.

Suggestions.

1. Take NY! ;)
2. Start short rushing HMs. I explained the procedure earlier if it is not known to everyone. Basically what we do is let Calcutta generate 10 shields, switch it to a Spearman, rush that (10 shields) switch back to HM immediately and voilá the HM is ready the next turn. In Bombay the procedure is a three turn process. First turn generate 5 shields, rush Spearman (15 shields), switch to HM and after another two turns it is ready!
3. Cut Iron.
4. Atlanta and Boston.
5. Washington.

Well, i am ready to play when i get back home

Yea that's even nicer when its free, but somehow I just have to make the most of my bar time when in England. Nothing really beats sitting in a bar at Heathrow playing Civ. How many other people do you know that are happy when there is a flight delay :)
The beer/wine/liquor in the lounge is free!!!! And many of them have decent buffets to take your pick from... I would never pay for a beverage/meal on an airport. But I really prefer to spend as little time as possible there. Nothing beats running past the express check-in line shouting that "my flight is closing the gate now!" :D

Its only free in Europe, in the US the AA admirals club still wants $4.50 for a Sam Adams, and I paid cash to join that damn thing.

1. Take NY! ;)
2. Start short rushing HMs. I explained the procedure earlier if it is not known to everyone. Basically what we do is let Calcutta generate 10 shields, switch it to a Spearman, rush that (10 shields) switch back to HM immediately and voilá the HM is ready the next turn. In Bombay the procedure is a three turn process. First turn generate 5 shields, rush Spearman (15 shields), switch to HM and after another two turns it is ready!
3. Cut Iron.
4. Atlanta and Boston.
5. Washington.

2 hours on a plane and that is all you came up with :)

But seriously just to add to this, its worth letting the city produce its sheilds first turn (as in Wotan's example), as when the shield bucket is empty whatever you rush (even a warrior) the price is doubled

But seriously just to add to this, its worth letting the city produce its sheilds first turn (as in Wotan's example), as when the shield bucket is empty whatever you rush (even a warrior) the price is doubled
If you really have to rush something from scratch, not recommended, first rush a Worker 10 shields = 80 gold (double) then shift to whatever you need to build to pay 4 gold for each remaining shield. Always trying to use the shields produced by the location, so if the location have 10 spt try rushing something that cost 10 shields less and switch to make use of the production. Like in my example with Calcutta: First turn adds 10 shields to the "stockpile", you then rush a Spearman for 40 gold and switch to finish the Horseman with the 10 shields Calcutta will produce. No reason to pay 40 gold for shields produced by the location. We can shave 1 turn off each HM built in Calcutta and 3 turns off every HM built in Bombay. for the price of 40 gold in Calcutta and 60 gold in Bombay.

Will do, but don't blame me if i fail take Madrid during my turns. :p

Will do, but don't blame me if i fail take Madrid during my turns. :p
You had better not, with that alliance still in place

Looking at the score chart, team Offa have made their move in 250ad, they must have captued some cities. So it looks like a real dog fight for the first to conquest.

Finish off them yanks! *cough*

@Wotan: those rushing procedures are real sweet. I am still learning things here, which is brilliant.

Ah, airport lounges, those were my astray years when I worked in advertising. The norwegian government, as good socio-democrats, travel economy.... so no phat lounges for me anymore.


JJ

Ah, airport lounges, those were my astray years when I worked in advertising. The norwegian government, as good socio-democrats, travel economy.... so no phat lounges for me anymore.

The Scandinavian lounge at Gardermoen is the most stupidly placed lounge I have ever encountered. Outside the departure area!!! And outside the taxfree zone. With Norway outside the EU taxfree is still interesting when going there but you can either make yourself comfortable in the lounge and run through the shop before bording or skip the lounge and shop!

The Scandinavian lounge at Gardermoen is the most stupidly placed lounge I have ever encountered. Outside the departure area!!! And outside the taxfree zone. With Norway outside the EU taxfree is still interesting when going there but you can either make yourself comfortable in the lounge and run through the shop before bording or skip the lounge and shop!


Cant recall that, mate. What I do know is that the government has decided that they should be placing all the taxfree at the arrivals now so that we dont fill all those planes with booze before take off.

Cant recall that, mate. What I do know is that the government has decided that they should be placing all the taxfree at the arrivals now so that we dont fill all those planes with booze before take off.
It's more a question of finding good cigars, not booze, in my case. Alcohol is so a non-issue nowadays with the EU quotas you are allowed to cross the inner market borders with. Tobacco OTOH, ridiculously high taxes everywhere... Smoking BTW, I like the norwegian approach, to have a room in every office where you can pop in for a smoke. Not like most other places in the world, with employees standing just outside entrances smoking.

Smoking BTW, I like the norwegian approach, to have a room in every office where you can pop in for a smoke. Not like most other places in the world, with employees standing just outside entrances smoking.
I saw one of those smoking cubicles in Sweden a few years back, thought that was a good idea. We actually have a room outside for smokers, too cold here in the winter, although not as cold as you guys get, maybe. No smoking in bars here now too, I don't smoke so no problem, but now when I go back to Europe I can really tell the difference.

Pre-flight: Rushed a horse in Bombay for Atlanta delivery. Sending worker from Seattle south to help around Calcutta. Calcutta switched to spear to short rush next turn. Feudalism in 6 turns.

T1. 260AD Bombay horse-spear. Short rush spear in Calcutta and switch to horse in 1 turn.

Seattle area:
Elite horse vs. reg. sword -> 1hp elite horse.

NY area:
Vet horse vs. reg 3hp spear -> 2 hp horse. We capture NY and also a worker and a settler.
Fortifying 4 wounded horses in NY, next target Atlanta.

Wash. area:
Horse moves on top of Iron.

IBT: Resistance in NY ended. One American sword moved towards our horse on iron. Another sword approached Seattle
Calcutta Horse->Spear. Calcutta increased its size and produces 12gpt... Japanese built The Great Lib. Celts build The Hanging Gardens. Chinese built The Great lighthouse. Spanish built The Great Wall. Wonder cascades ended here.

T2.270AD Science down to 90%, feud. in 4 turns. Workers to road near madras. Convert scientist in madras to citizen and barracks are due in 11
Increase lux. slider 10% since Delhi and Calcutta are about to riot.
Short rush spear in Bombay and changed to horse in 2 turns.

Near Wash.:
Horse cuts the iron and retreats, but still within the reach of American sword.

Near Seattle:
Vet. Horse vs. reg sword -> 1hp horse retreats
Elite horse vs. reg sword -> 4hp horse

Civ assists tells me that Zulu will talk peace, let’s check... they want peace only if we give them Mono...Yeah....
Forget it Shaka... Alliances against France expire next turn and I will make peace with Joanne.

IBT: Reg sword vs. vet horse -> sword gets promoted with full 4hp life.

T3. 280 AD. Short rushed spear in Calcutta and switched to horse in 1 turn. 4 horses are moved to a tile near Atlanta. Dispatched workers.

IBT Bombay horse->spear; NY is rioting; Calcutta horse->spear; Jaipur (I haven't even noticed we have this city) spear->temple (can be changed to something else later)

T4. 290AD.

Near Atlanta:
Vet horse vs. reg. spear -> 1hp horse
Elite* horse vs. reg. spear -> 2hp horse
Atlanta has been captured with no casualties. 2 horses from Atlanta area are set back to help up north.

Alliances against France have been expired and oops making peace with France is not possible... Stubborn Joanne wants some gold in addition to peace, forget it for now.
I am going to save this game, quite and come back later... Nick is here and I can't play in less than normal conditions

T5. 300AD. Regrouping troops send horse to scare American workers in iron. Vet swordsman is moving in jungle, I am not sure where is he going to turn to. Science slider down to 70%. Feud. in 1t.

T6. 310AD. Feud came, switched to chivalry in 19 turns. Start moving horses towards Boston...

T7. 320 AD
Bombay horse->spear
Cash rush spear in Calcutta and switch to horse.

Near Boston:
Elite horse vs. reg. arch. -> 3hp horse and Peter the Great arises. [party]
Vet horse vs. vet sword -> 1hp horse retreats
Vet horse vs. 2hp sword -> 2hp horse
Move units further towards Boston, can take the city in 2 turns.

T8 330AD. Calcutta horse->horse in 2 turns, Calcutta finally can produce 15gpt. Boston will be attacked next turn.
AIs are stupid and obsolete, so far no real trading opportunities.

IBT. Scandinavians asking audience... well... they want WM in exchange of our WM+Feud... dont' think so...
Near Boston: reg. archer vs. our elite. Horse -> 1hp horse... FP is built in Delhi, switching to barracks in 4 turns.

T9. 340AD. Peter the great has finally arrived to Calcutta. Making an army.
Attacking Boston:
Vet horse vs. reg spear -> 2hp spear, horse retreats
Vet horse vs. reg spear -> 1hp spear, horse dies.
Vet horse vs. 2hp spear -> 3 hp horse
Elite horse vs. 1hp spear -> 4hp horse.
Boston is captured, 1 slave taken.

IBT. Reg. American horse vs. 3hp vet horse -> 2hp American horse. As I predicted Americans are building horses now... Egyptians want audience, same deal, they want to much. I am ignoring Cleo's request.

T10. 350AD.
Near Boston: 4hp elite horse vs. 2hp reg horse -> 4hp elite horse. Resistance in Boston ended.

We have 5 wounded horses in Boston and 6 horses around Calcutta; we should be able to make a move on Washington as soon as Boston horses are healed and with Calcutta producing a horse each 2 turns with Boston and Delhi picking up strength we are going to have quite powerful army in very few turns. At some point we should build libraries for cultural expansion in some of our cities to get best production tiles. We are scientific so libraries are half priced and cheaper than temples. Maybe it make sense to use a horse from NY to cut american horses.

Picture:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/350ADST.jpg

Firaxis score - 168; Jason - 110 (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Smackster_SG005_AD0350_01.SAV)

Good progress, poised to take Washington and only 11 turns from Chivalry.

I see 9 horses that can hit Washington, in 2 turns. I think the horses in New York should move now before end turn, the rest next turn, from Calcutta and the elite from Boston.
I would ignore the American horses.

Note we can get that city from France for peace, so we should take that now (Dijon), I think it can change based on their wars. Zulu will give us peace for free now.

I think we keep at war with America until their capital moves to Buffalo.

So that we are ready, we should move our galleys to Karachi now. Maybe get one more built too.

When we get Chivalry we should obviously upgrade our horses and send them to the Arabian continent. We can then deal with the Spanish with fresh troops. Only fill one army until we have enough spare Knights in the field, remember PTW armies are not good. Tech after Chivalry is obviously Eng->MT.

I know we've talked about this before, but I prefer that no units are left sleeping in the open at turn end, better they are active and you save (if you want them fortified). That way the next player does not miss any that should be moved next turn.

Might be time to kick off some more fights, like Japan vs Iroquois etc.

Yes, i didn't want to leave horses on open, but then workers were putting a road towards Wash. and i didn't want to leave them unprotected in hit distance for american horses.

I agree on galleys, we should start preparing to move troops to Arabia.

Agreed on PTW armies, they suck, but the only alternative - rushing 250gold, isn't any better. :sad: .

I think I also messed up with workers a little in last two turns.

Do we really want to research anything after chivalry???

I vote for stopping research, and use resource disconnect to do horses->knights upgrades.

We will waste time and money going to MT. AIs are way to weak... so Shutdown research is really the best option we have.

Good turns Dman!!! :D

Agree on everything but research in Smacksters run down. Am leaning towards Dmans opinion we should shut down research after Chivalry. Maybe Engineering in 40 turns to be able to move faster over roaded rivers. but that is not an issue during my turns with 11 turns to go on Chivalry. I will just have to concentrate on taking out America... We will need 80 gold per HM for upgrade so need to play it a bit safe on the shortrushing of HMs. We seem to have enough of them ATM anyway, so normal builds should suffice.

Will probably take my lunchbreak to play my turns.

If you have any ideas about how leaders should act in the game then I would be happy to hear from you.

My feeling is that particularly when playing a variant, an early leader to build the FP or Pyramids or even GL makes too much difference. OTOH PTW armies do suck. I was toying with the idea of setting the "treat all terrain as roads" flag for armies. Haven't tried it yet, so I'm not even sure it would work.

Rocking good news! :goodjob:

Nice set of turns got us NY, Boston and Atlanta. Also, a new leader to boot.
How sweet.

As for the suggestions, I am not sure that we will need to research towards MT. As d-man suggests the AI is weak, and after chivalry and upgrades we are pretty much running the whole show. It looks like we might need to start saving up some cash too.

Like smackster said, a new phoney war is a good idea now.

So Washington asap.
But do look out for a counterattack on the northern flank from Philly towards Boston/Washington approach.

If Abe is still building wonders, how very nice. That would make it easier for us, and Washington is pretty much his production hub probably.

Galleys and preparation for arabian continent :)

( I am still high on adrenaline(best kick in 10 yrs!) after Liverpool came from behind to secure a place in the last 16 of the Champions League last night, so you must excuse my rants if they go over the top :D )

JJ

Here goes: No map, no MMing last turn, I wanted to leave something for Smackster... Second time I finish the war just in time for his turns to commence. No, seriously had some time before/during lunch so played and finished but have to attend to RL stuff now. America = Buffalo! :)

Turn log

0 – 350AD Pre-flight
Cancel Mining of grassland near Bombay. We need irrigation there instead and to mine the hill. Sent a HM to cut the American Horse. Peace with France for Dijon might not be sucha good deal after all. With two Barb.Camps near Dijon I would prefer to wait a few turns before taking it so the French can take out those Camps.

IBT: Spain want us to add another 20 turns to our Alliance. I sell them WM for 1 gold instead.

1 – 360AD
Kill an American Swordsman near Boston. Several units move on Washington. Horses disconnected. America have researched Engineering.

2 – 370AD
Calcutta builds Horseman, Horseman started.
Battle for Washington.
1st HM -> SM HM 2hp.
2nd HM -> SM HM 2hp
3rd HM -> SM HM retreat, SM unscathed
4th-6th HM -> SM SM redlined, 2 HM retreat one killed.
7th HM -> SM HM shp
8th HM -> Archer HM dies Archer unscathed!!!
9th HM -> Archer HM 3hp
10th HM -> Redlined SM HM 3hp
Washington is liberated, 2 Workers captured.

IBT: Two American Archers counter attack. One kills a redlined HM one dies and HM 3hp.

3 – 380AD
Delhi builds Barracks, Horseman started. Culture expands at Delhi.
Madras builds Barracks, Horseman started.
Bombay will overproduce in the extreme due to the culture expansion so decide to switch to Temple. We need culture around Bombay too and this is as good an opportunity as any.

4 – 390AD
Bangalore builds Barracks, Horseman started.
Calcutta builds Horseman, Horseman started.

Philadelphia captured. 2SMs and a Swordsman defended it. We lost a HM. Worker captured. New capital, Chicago.

5 – 400AD
Delhi builds HM, HM started.

San Francisco and Houston captured. 1 Elite* HM Killed. Two SM in SF and only one in Houston.

6 – 410AD
Calcutta builds HM, HM started.

7 – 420AD
Delhi builds HM, HM started.

IBT: America and Spain signs peace.

8 – 430AD
Calcutta builds HM, HM started.
Bombay builds Temple, HM started.

Miami falls, I had 5 HMs lined up but it only took two w. no losses… :)

IBT: Iroquois demand Feudalism, I kindly decline their request. Archer moves out of Chicago.

9 – 440AD
Delhi builds HM, HM started. French have started on Sun Tzu’s.

It takes two HMs to dispatch of the Archer. The first is redlined. 9 HMs in position to strike at Chicago next turn. Hopefully I will end hostilities just in time before Smackster’s turns… “Evil grin”

10 – 450AD
Calcutta builds HM, HM started. Arabs and French starts building Sun Tzu’s.

Battle of Chicago.
1st Elite* -> SM Elite 3hp.
2nd HM -> SM retreat wo afflicting any damage.
3rd HM -> SM Kill SM wo. Wounds.
4th HM -> SM HM 3hp.
Chicago falls.

Peace: We get Engineering, Detroit, St. Louis, WM and 1 gold. I guess we accept… ;)

After action report:
Research: Chivalry in 1 turn

Still at war with France and Zulu, sorry about this but I felt it was too unsafe to accept Dijon with Barbs nearby. We do not want to lose our gold to marauding barbs.

Have been selling WM every turn to anyone prepared to pay at least 1 gold for it.

The French learnt feudalism in 440AD and in 450AD Mono was researched and traded among the AI. We need to address this issue now. Do we sell any of them and to whom? Do we want to trade for Republic?

Short report but I figure you rather have this than wait for a full report tonight… ;)

No real MMing done either in the last turn, everything needs to be checked. I wanted to post the save for everyone to see. And it gives Smackster something to do! ;)

Firaxis: 200

Looking all nice and dandy this, Wotan. :)
Will look at the save this evening to get the real take on this.
JJ

Great... we are getting bigger...
For culture expansion it might be better to build libraries instead of temples...
Libraries are cheaper for us...
It is time to have a detailed plan on Russian-Arab war... Our current continent is small we can deal with it piece meal at a time and at the moment main task is capturing western continent where most of the AIs are located.
I guess few more galleys and start shipping units there ASAP during Smacksters turns.

If we can get some money out of AIs by trading techs they know already about lets do it, otherwise they will trade it anyway without any profit to us.

@M-B: I do agree with you on leaders, but i am not sure what is the best way to change them :sad:

Finally the gang is here... now lets talk :)

Good turns again, now to plan that jump to Arabia.

I think its fine to drop the research right now, to maximise our Knight upgrades. I'll have a look and if I think we can afford to do both.

smackster

we still might need to build few markets to max gold output...
One build at a time as we have it done in SGOTM3-Rome
I guess no GA for us in this game

We need to hook that iron near Delhi and use it for the connecting-reconnecting each turn... we need to build more workers to do it though.

what else???

For culture expansion it might be better to build libraries instead of temples...
Libraries are cheaper for us...

Not sure about that in this game. Three reasons for building libraries: cheaper, more culture and gives research. But, in this game we are going conquest and we are about to stop researching. So the extra 20 shields a Temple will cost us is worth it for the extra content citizen they create, compared to what a library will give us.

We need to hook that iron near Delhi and use it for the connecting-reconnecting each turn... we need to build more workers to do it though.

Done that already! So we are ready for upgrades on Smacksters watch.

we still might need to build few markets to max gold output...
Yes! Lets start with one in Dehli. Do not build any in Calcutta, we are going to abandon it when Mecca is ours...

On the topic of Calcutta, we should squeeze in a few Workers there too. Just keep it so it produce 15 spt. Size 7 or 8?

Cossaks, and the GA. Now that would be nice, and its a long way round to the bottom of the map.

The least we should do now, is gift/sell to all the AI Engineering, that way somebody will research the next tech along the bottom line, sooner rather than later, and we can change our technology research plan.

Done that already! So we are ready for upgrades on Smacksters watch.



Good! let's remember to disconnect and reconnect each turn (based on availability of workers). Doesn't make sense building knights in 6 turns when we can get horse in 2.

Agreed with Smackster on Engineering....
The only problem... I don't want AIs to get to Gunpowder and fight against muskets., but i would sure love if someone builds Leo's for us.

Cossacks are really lousy in PTW, that extra defence doesn't give you much so, it is basically a cavalry that can give us GA. Cossacks in conquests are really cool with the blitz ability.... You get tons of elite cossacks in no time and they become really as unstoppable as Turkish UU.

Good! let's remember to disconnect and reconnect each turn (based on availability of workers). Doesn't make sense building knights in 6 turns when we can get horse in 2.

Agreed with Smackster on Engineering....
The only problem... I don't want AIs to get to Gunpowder and fight against muskets., but i would sure love if someone built Leo's for us.
Yes, but they will get it anyway. I'll see what we can get for it, and if its started to be traded.

I'm more interested in Cossacks for speed, they wont need defence

I'm more interested in Cossacks for speed, they wont need defence
Team Smackster do not rely on defense. Charge!!!!!

I wasn't talking about defense at all :) . That's why i said Cossacks are lousy...
I want conquests Cossacks with blitz for an extra offense :ar15:

EDIT: and where is the roster captain?

Roster

dman
Wotan (just played)
smackster (playing)
tomasjj (on deck)
MjM
Tarkeel (auto skip)

looking at the map...
should we also expedite building a Temple in NY..
it has a cow and 2 BG tiles it can benefit from when expanded

After action report:
Research: Chivalry in 1 turn

Still at war with France and Zulu, sorry about this but I felt it was too unsafe to accept Dijon with Barbs nearby. We do not want to lose our gold to marauding barbs.
OK, I'll check the location of that city, if we are about to fight Arabia, no point getting it just to lose it.


The French learnt feudalism in 440AD and in 450AD Mono was researched and traded among the AI. We need to address this issue now. Do we sell any of them and to whom? Do we want to trade for Republic?

Yes, I'll try to get everything I can, and probably get them all level. That way they are all researching something sensible, and not paying each other for techs. I'd like to see some GPT from them but I'm not hopeful.


No real MMing done either in the last turn, everything needs to be checked. I wanted to post the save for everyone to see. And it gives Smackster something to do! ;)
I'm quite happy to do 10 turns of preperation. The vast majority of our horses will make the long treck east. Although I'm tempted to upgrade them all, make a quick surge on Spain, take a few cities, move our Knights in, gift one city to Arabia, teleport our Knights to Calcutta (now if only we'd make Karachi our capital), declare war on Arabia, take back the undefended city, and our Knights will be about where they would have been anyway, and we would have taken spain :)

smackster

Interesting suggestion.... :hmm:
Use your best judgement...

Western continent should still be a priority because it is much bigger.
We will need dedicate all resources to that one and we would only need handful of units to capture/destroy spain and egypt.

(now if only we'd make Karachi our capital)
Hrmm, I guess I agree on that... ;)

The vast majority of our horses will make the long treck east. Although I'm tempted to upgrade them all, make a quick surge on Spain, take a few cities, move our Knights in, gift one city to Arabia, teleport our Knights to Calcutta
They need to move back to calcutta/Bombay for upgrades. I do not believe we have the funds to rush barracks in former America. HM -> Knight is 80gold! And we have 18 HMs = 1440 gold!

I will, of course I don't know where our horses are yet

Any map makers out there.

Hrmm, I guess I agree on that... ;)

But admit with capital in Karachi we would not be able to take americans out so fast... Calcuta's production rate played a major difference

edit: I didn' tknow we have so many horses already... We may not have not wait to upgrade them all.....Combined arms of knight + horses will do just fine. Armies will also help.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/smacksteramer.JPG
Caveat: There is a BarbCamp just SW of Detroit so we need some protection there fast...

And check all cities for MMing. Several of the American cites are still configured as pre-peace.

But admit with capital in Karachi we would not be able to take americans out so fast... Calcuta's production rate played a major difference
Yes getting rid of America fast was important. Once Calcutta has gone, hopefully India will put a settler there so that we can get it back, as its still a productive place.

I went back in time last night to see if I could get Washington at the start of dman's turns. 3rd turn washington was ours, I stopped as I didn't want to spoil it. After my turns tonight I'll see how quickly I can get them to Buffalo. My feeling is that if you have a good chance, better to take out the core of their cities, so I would have ignored Atlanta.

first look at the map
Should we switch bangalore and karachi to build galleys?

[IMG]Caveat: There is a BarbCamp just SW of Detroit so we need some protection there fast...
Or I'll make sure we have no cash for them.

What is the horse count? What is upgrade 80 gold? or 60

Or I'll make sure we have no cash for them.

What is the horse count? What is upgrade 80 gold? or 60
In a post earlier: 18 HMs @ 80 gold = 1440 gold

When I opened the save to get the map I saw that I had started the Workers on the iron on mining. Stop that, since we will disconnect the iron again. And the HM finishing this turn in Delhi will not finish since Chivalry will kick in so maybe shift to Marketplace there. And maybe a Worker in Calcutta.

We need more Galleys too, Dmans suggestion sound OK.

Armies, what are they good for, absolutely nothing, yea.

Actually two things, the plan is to arrive in Arabia with whatever I can muster as soon as I can muster it, protected by a knight army. Keep it together and it will not be attacked, right? We can then wander to Mecca, take it and palace jump right away, so that will stop flips, and allow us to start building over there, of course our FP core would get a little corruption boost until we capture our next city, are we ok with this?. The intention is to capture all the rest of their cities, and I'm concerned it will flip if we don't do this.

Second army can be used as an iron buster (not sure if we can pillage with them, so might need to send a Knight), so don't use that army to fight, simply send them south to our next victim to prepare the way for the rest of the troops. That army can then keep going cutting any resources it sees. It would be nice to fight spearmen and archers all the way.

Sounds like a good plan...
So it is Smackster tonight and JJ tomorrow

The arabian city at less than 5 distance from Mecca will have to be destroyed though. But I like your ideas about how to use the armies. Wo a city it is impossible to load Knights into the army so we will have to ship them with 1 Knight loaded, wait until the first city is ours and then load up. I am not sure the AI will refrain from attacking an army with only one knight loaded though.

And, Calcutta, I am sure you are right Smackster. The Indians will surely put another city there when we vacate it.

And on another topic. GOTM's, I feel the same way as you Smackster. I enjoy the first few hours, up until MA normally. Then it becomes a question of fastest possible time to domination just to get it over with. The alternative cost in time to finish just a few places higher in the game to get a medal isn't that appealing... I am in that position in gotm37 and will probably stop after that game too. Maybe play a few Cotms but probably put PTW on the shelf. SGOTMs opening up to Conquests do play a part in it too. No need to keep playing PTW.

do we want to sign RoP with Indians to help them settling on Calcutta's spot... (only drawback if Indians decide to sneak attack us)



And on another topic. GOTM's, I feel the same way as you Smackster. I enjoy the first few hours, up until MA normally. Then it becomes a question of fastest possible time to domination just to get it over with. The alternative cost in time to finish just a few places higher in the game to get a medal isn't that appealing... I am in that position in gotm37 and will probably stop after that game too. Maybe play a few Cotms but probably put PTW on the shelf. SGOTMs opening up to Conquests do play a part in it too. No need to keep playing PTW.

Don't we all feel the same... That is actually another reason i never have high score in GOTMs... I do play well (I think i do) trough Ancient Ages, but then when i see my game is won, i simply lose interest and not paying attention to the detals with the primary goal to click next turn button as soon as possible.

do we want to sign RoP with Indians to help them settling on Calcutta's spot... (only drawback if Indians decide to sneak attack us)
No need, the AI is never shy about moving through someones territory with settlers.

The arabian city at less than 5 distance from Mecca will have to be destroyed though. But I like your ideas about how to use the armies. Wo a city it is impossible to load Knights into the army so we will have to ship them with 1 Knight loaded, wait until the first city is ours and then load up. I am not sure the AI will refrain from attacking an army with only one knight loaded though.

I don't want to destroy any city for that reason. I hate RCP and palace exploits, but am aware of them of course. So we should only destroy cities and do palace jumps if they are in our best interests not related to the exploit.

Don't worry I'll ship the army with one Knight and land them somewhere safe, before loading.

@Smackster: Just make sure to play early enough... I'd love to have something to read before going to sleep tonight :)

I'll be home early tonight and play it right off

I don't want to destroy any city for that reason. I hate RCP and palace exploits, but am aware of them of course. So we should only destroy cities and do palace jumps if they are in our best interests not related to the exploit.
I am not a huge fan of them either. The jump we just made was the first I have ever made. PTW however do require us to "obey the RCP laws" in this game. Having one city at closer range than the ring around the FP and the remaining cities around Mecca is such a high price to pay, I would rather look the other way a last and final time in this game.

I am soo looking forward to playing SCOTMs, since RCP is a terrible feature in PTW.