I am soo looking forward to playing SCOTMs, since RCP is a terrible feature in PTW.

I just hope there will be enough people interested to play SCOTM...
So many people still don't have conquests... X-Team for example uses Macs so there won't be SCOTM for them, which is bad since those guys make a strong team.

Great great.
I have time to play tomorrow night too.
JJ

I just hope there will be enough people interested to play SCOTM...
So many people still don't have conquests... X-Team for example uses Macs so there won't be SCOTM for them, which is bad since those guys make a strong team.They all have PC's really, so I have no sympathy for them.
I think we'll find a good enough core group for SCOTM, I'd still like to play both.

T0 450AD
This one is rather complex. I've studied the map, and looked at the deals. The best deal is with India for 67 gold and 6GPT, they must be getting something from elsewhere, so I'll take that and move on.
From Egypt for Eng we get 49 gold, 1GPT and Republic. From Scandy 29 gold for Mono, from France for peace 26 gold and 1GPT (we don't need that city), Japan 25 gold for eng, Zulu peace for 20 gold, Aztecs 17 gold for Monarchy, Spain 15 and China 13.
OK that is enough, I'm not giving them all everything. I'll just try to keep them all broke.

We have 650 gold now.

T1 460AD
Chivalry comes in. Resisance reduced but still in 3 American cities. Worker built in Calcutta.
We upgrade 8 horses to Knights, trying to make best use of movements and upgrading on the 6th move where possible.

Suddenly our map is worth something and we net about 100 gold in map trades, somebody must have gone somewhere and traded it to us.
So make that 9 Knights. Hold the iron disconnect to see if we can get two more upgrades next turn.

War ends with France and Arabia, will look at getting them back together again.


T2 470AD
2 Galleys built, and resistance is futile and its over.

Can't find gold for two upgrades, so get 18 gold from Iro, for 1GPT. Two more horses upgraded.
Jungle cleared going to Karachi, which really helps getting over there. 3 knights arrive at the coast, but its going to take 6 turns to get to the Mecca jump of point. But Kufah is reached in 4, so the initial troops will go to Kufah. Then as the rest arrive we'll march to Mecca. France will probably want Chivalry and we are not giving them that. So we go alone.

Iron is cut, but Bombay stays on Knight as it gets one in 3

Push the slider to 30%, as we are pushing everything east.

T3 480AD
Seattle Temple->worker, Calcutta horse->horse

First galley leaves, but its only 3 turns to Kufah

T4 490AD
Lahore barracks->horse
We rush another galley as we have too many Knights->galleys. Two more galleys leave, and two more should go next turn.

Our power is strong, so we reneg peace with Egypt for 56 gold. We had 16 turns left of a deal anyway. It will either be 20 more turns before we attack Egypt or it wont matter

T5 500AD
Bombay Knight->horse send to spain as spain shows us a sword
Calcutta horse->horse

Aztecs sell us two workers for Republic
First troops arrive outside Kufah, we will wait for more and should be able to take Medina same turn.

T6 510AD
Seattle worker->galley
Delhi Marketplace->horse
More troops arrive at Kufah, waiting for two more galleys in two turns and we go in, we should have a steady flow from then on in.

Reneg peace with Scandy and we get 46 gold, and not one, not two, not three, .......9 GPT. for Peace reneg??????

T7 520AD
Washington Temple->Barracks, Bombay and Madras Horse->Knight, or back to horses when we cut the iron in two seconds.

T8 530AD
Delhi and Bombay horse->horse
Barb comes out of nowhere and sacks Detroit for a citizen, this time I rush the spear for 48 gold.

Time for war declare on Arabs.
At Khurasan, 3 Knights
Knight->spear 1/4 knight retreat
Knight->spear 1/4 victory Khurasan is taken
Final knight moves to Medina
At Kufah, a knight and an knight army (single still)
Knight->spear 4/5 victory (upgrade)
Army->spear 1/4 retreat (whoops)

4 more knights are dropped off

Another galley is loaded, so now we should have that steady flow coming

T9 540AD
Detroit spear->harbour
Calcutta horse->horse

At Kufah
Knight ->spear our Knight dies
Knight->spear 5/5 Knight (upgrade)
Knight->spear 3/5 Knight Kufah is taken

We reneg peace with Japan for a worker, Currently I'm avoiding deals with Spain, France, Iroquois, pending wars
With Celts we reneg for 2 workers. Note they would not give one worker for Engineering, guess they are close to it.
England we reneg for 1 worker. Bizzarre, half of them have workers for trade

T10 550AD
Horses hooked and we upgrade 3 more Knights.

Medina is size one without culture, so we are bypassing going to Mecca. The army has only two Knights, needs third which moves there now. Two others are near. That would give us three Knights and an army to move on Mecca, they probably have Pikes, but I would do it.

Score 247
Next post for analysis and maps

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/arabian-front.jpg

Here is a list of things to mention

1) Don't take Medina until we can capture it (size 2 or culture expansion)

2) To safely take Mecca, hold the army, join another Knight to it, bring the two Knights I should from the galley, and add the Knight from Kufah (leave one at Kurasn). Now that force should be able to take Mecca.

3)There are three galleys that will be back at Karachi next turn, there are plenty of troops waiting there, I've prioritised vet Knights. Also one galley with Knights at Karachi ready to move next turn

4) A number of units in the game are active, so after hitting end turn they will remain active for you to move. There are a few in cities asleep, they are providing MP, but I would have upgraded them given more cash.

5) There is one Knight on the Spanish border, sometime soon we should get some more Knights and open that front, but probably not in the next 10 turns.

6) Iron takes three turns to hook. So when its done use whatever cash to upgrade the horses, and hook it up again. Sometime soon (as a lot of barracks are going to finish) we are going to produce more horses than we can upgrade, so some of the better cities should switch to producing Knights

7) As soon as Mecca is taken stop, so that we can work out the jump.

8) Do not get per turn deals with France, Iroquois, Spain or Egypt anymore

Haven't loaded the save but it looks good. :goodjob:
I agreed with Smackster on all positions but one.

Here is a list of things to mention

6) Iron takes three turns to hook. So when its done use whatever cash to upgrade the horses, and hook it up again. Sometime soon (as a lot of barracks are going to finish) we are going to produce more horses than we can upgrade, so some of the better cities should switch to producing Knights


If you can't upgrade horses due to luck of money simply send those horses towards Spain. Horses will be almost as effective for quite some time and i reckon it takes the same time to build 3 horses as it does 1 knight... If you ask me 3 horses are always better than one knight... I suggest keep building horses, if you don't have money for upgrade send them to battle anyway (spain is a good target as i mentioned before). It will be faster to take AIs in sheer numbers than waiting for knights to be build. Just my 2 cents.

@JJ. Do you know how resource disconnect trick work??? I didn't know about it until we started playing SGOTM3.

It is probably a good idea to pause game when you take Mecca so you, Smackster and Wotan can do the math on palace jump. I will stay away, 'cause i will totally screw this up as i did in GOTM37 :crazyeye: ..


edit: Oh, Smackster is here.. When you said you would come home early to play, what time zone did you have in mind???? :) It's 1AM BTW :rolleyes:

Haven't loaded the save but it looks good.
If you can't upgrade horses due to luck of money simply send those horses towards Spain. Horses will be almost as effective for quite some time and i reckon it takes the same time to build 3 horses or 1 knight... If you ask me 3 horses are always better than one knight... I suggest keep building horses, if you don't have money for upgrade send them to battle anyway (spain is a good target as i mentioned before). It will be faster to take AIs in sheer numbers than waiting for knights to be build. Just my 2 cents.

So far we are not talking about many horses, like 2-3. But I agree that we should move these extras to Spain and take their land as soon as possible. This will mean that the lux slider needs to be tweaked as the extras are providing MP

Loaded the save, looks good but we need more workers.
Calcutta doesn't need pop 9... Build worker each time it reaches pop 9.
When Washington finishes barrack, build a worker and mine those goats for extra shields.

Now, there is a mined BG that Bangalore and Delhi share S-SW from Delhi.. Remove Delhi citizen from that BG and put it on another BG NE from Delhi and put Bangalore citizen from sea square to the now available BG.

I doubt city of Houston needs barracks, with only desert tiles it will never be able to produce anything, but take that extra maitenance gold for having barracks.
Lahore - horseman in 24 turns, may be it is worthwhile to switch it to temple so it eventially expands and can use more useful tiles.

Khm... i think i am going to get some sleep now... it's getting really late here

Looking good! Not much to discuss until Mecca falls. The we should take a small break and discuss the jump. Some MMing to do before hitting return.

Start planning for Spainish war. And peace with America expires in 10 turns. We should take them out soon after that.

Do you know how resource disconnect trick work??? I didn't know about it until we started playing SGOTM3.

It is probably a good idea to pause game when you take Mecca so you, Smackster and Wotan can do the math on palace jump.

I guess you are refering to the fact that some resources have a random chance to become depleted every turn, so therefore, one unhooks the iron after doing upgrades to knight/setting prod to knights? There arent any other issues with this?

I will stop when Mecca falls.

Other than that I will, naturally, pop some questions here if I dont agree to what has been mapped out in the previous posts here when I look at the save later on today.

JJ

I guess you are refering to the fact that some resources have a random chance to become depleted every turn, so therefore, one unhooks the iron after doing upgrades to knight/setting prod to knights? There arent any other issues with this?

Nothing to do with the possibility of a resource being depleted. It is a technique to build horsemen and then upgrade them to knights/Cavalry.

A knight cost 70 shields from a city. A Horseman 30 shields from a city. If you first build a Horseman for 30 shields and then upgrade it to a Knight, the cost for the Knight will be 30 shields and 80 gold. In most games this is a "smart" way of having more units in the field than if you build every Knight/Cavalry from scratch. So each time you hook up Iron with workers you take the opportunity to ungrade available Horsemen then you immediately unhook the iron again and continue to build Horsemen.

To have this running at max efficiency you need 6 Workers and a soldier on the iron. So each time you want to upgrade you simply build a road with the workers and after upgrades destroy the road again with the soldier.

Ah, I see. Just the ability to build horsemen after chivalry.
jj

Note the turn you hook the iron, all horse builds switch to Knight, what you do is upgrade all the horses you have cash for (and trade to get as much as you can), and then use the warrior to cut the iron, then switch those knight builds back to horses.

Right on.
So, the plan:

1. Get mecca. (and stop...)
2. Continue to build army (HM - upgrade to knights).
3. Move what we can spare towards spanish border.
4. Also some of dmans suggestions on worker build, mmanaging and production sounds sound.


Any phony wars or big deal trading planned?
JJ

Loaded the save, looks good but we need more workers.
Calcutta doesn't need pop 9... Build worker each time it reaches pop 9.
When Washington finishes barrack, build a worker and mine those goats for extra shields.

How many more do we feel we need, there are quite a lot out there. The extra citizen in Calcutta is not wasted, it does bring us extra commerce. But I'm fine if we feel the need to get more.


I doubt city of Houston needs barracks, with only desert tiles it will never be able to produce anything, but take that extra maitenance gold for having barracks.
Lahore - horseman in 24 turns, may be it is worthwhile to switch it to temple so it eventially expands and can use more useful tiles.

Agreed, some of those outlying cities will also become very corrupt pretty soon, so maybe Houston should switch to a horse and then wealth. Its ok to have some regular horses, they can be used for resistance busting at the very least. I'm concerned that some of those 2 shield cities will become 1 shield after the jump.

Note the turn you hook the iron, all horse builds switch to Knight, what you do is upgrade all the horses you have cash for (and trade to get as much as you can), and then use the warrior to cut the iron, then switch those knight builds back to horses.
Unless you can afford to keep as many workers as needed to build the road there. Then you and connect/disconnect during your turn and no cties change from HM to Knights.

It's all yours JJ.
Convert arab land to christianity :) (it wasn't exactly politically correct sentence or was it? :) )

Pre turn:

Switch production in Lahore to temple, in Houston to Horseman.
Micromanage a litte.
Move HM from Bombay towards Chicago.

1 - 550 AD:

Calcutta: HM to HM.
Zulu are building Sun Tzu.

2 - 560 AD:

Move troops across the channel towards arabia, and also towards Spanish border.

3 - 570 AD:

An archer sneaks past us near Medina and snatches back a worker building road.
We take it back, killing the archer in the process.
Boston: Barracks-HM
Seattle: Galley-Harbor
San Fran:HM-Harbor

IBT: Japan wants to talk. They want Chivalry and WM, giving WM. Haha.


4 - 580:

Calcutta: HM-Knight
One resister quelled i Kufah.
Moving army towards Mecca now.
Upgraded some HM in NY.

I have to ask about that other army. I assume we are taking it across towards Arabia since it is in Karachi? On the other hand I seem to recall that we talked about sending only one over?

JJ

No send that other army over, but less priority than sending the spare Knights.
Once its over there and we feel we can spare those Knights, first check it can pillage (I assume not) and if not then work out if we can spare another unit to go with it. Send them south pillaging. This should be well into Wotan's turn of course.

BTW when you take Mecca, post a save. Also I ran trade assist and it said that Washington was the next biggest city, so do push at least one worker out of that city to reduce it a little.

When the capital city is razed or abandonned, each city in the empire scores
3 points per national citizen
1 point per foreign citizen
1 point per neighboring town (1-6)
2 points per neighboring city (7-12)
3 points per neighboring metropolis (13+)
1 point per military unit
The city with the most points is the new capital!

A neighbor city must yours, and within 8 tiles walking distance from the target city (a 17x17 square). The old capital does not count as a neighbor.

If there is a tie for the most points, the palace jumps to the first city in the database, which is usually the oldest city. After some old cities have been razed the database gets out of order and it's impossible to tell where the palace will go in a tie.

Without doing the calcuations we would probably need to drop some worker in Mecca to get the size up. I don't see that we can do it before we've wiped them out. So I suggest right now that we just continue to finish off Arabia, capture all their cities.

IBT:

Dehli: HM-Knight
Madras: HM-Knight
Chicago: Barracks-Knight
Washington; Barracks-Worker (at size 12 next turn).
England are building Sun Tzu.
Resistance in Kufah has ended.
Medina grows to two...

5 - 590 AD:

Troop movements.
Arabia have pikes in Mecca. Got one right now it seems, not fortified yet.
We have 5 knights in Chicago now.
Will attack Mecca the next turn.

IBT:
Washington: Worker-Worker
Calcutta:HM-HM

6 - 600 AD:
Attack on Mecca:
Army vs. pike - army looses 2 hp
Army vs. spear - army barely survives! but kills spear (OMG.)
Knight vs. spear -knight 1hp (upgrade to elite!)
Knight vs. spear -knight retreat, spear unhurt.
Knight vs. spear -knight looses 1hp, upgrade to elite.
Mecca is ours, with two workers to boot!
5 Resisters.

Good work, the jump is not even close, so proceed with the fight, I can't advise where to take it. Flip chance is high (7%) so this turn put as many troops in Mecca as you can (can't flip this turn), to try to reduce resistance, then leave only one defender after that so we only lose that one if it flips.

You'll have to use your judgement where to go next. If you are unsure, post a map, with our military sizes.

Note You are actually on turn 5, 600AD is turn 5, you see 550AD was turn 0.
Your last turn should be 650AD

smackster

Don't know if anyone else is about, suggest you just play on. The palace jump is not close. As Washnton is 5 pops bigger, and has many cities around it. I can do the calculations tonight.

I suggest we'll have to get Mecca to size 12, and capture all the cities round it, and then put some troops in Mecca.

On line! Just had a look at the save. Well done. Will have a look at the palace jump too. Would like us to get a few russian workers across to join to Mecca since we want it to eventually have russian citizens.

One thing: I really want us to raze the city NE of Mecca at distance 4. It will unfortunately put a lot of cities at corruption rank 2 and it will be the sole city at rank 1! The plan to put the FP in Delhi sort of had this in mind too.

Right well capture that city first, and we can look at abandoning it later. Its very close to the line of what I don't do to exploit RCP. I realise its not to the letter of the banned part, and far less than what Xteam did in SG3.

Suggest JJ keeps playing. The palace jump will not work right now.

Attack on Medina:
Dont want them to fortify the pikeman there, so we attack.
Knight vs. pike - knight dies redlining pike.
Knight vs. spear - knight 1hp
knight vs. red pike - knight looses 1hp.
Medina is ours, but looses a pop point.

Also, reveals that arabia has more troops coming this way.
Two swords and two archers outside of Medina.
Basra is their new capital.

IBT:
We quell 4 resisters in Mecca. Only on left.
Arabs counterattack at Medina. Our injured knight puts up a fight killing an archer
but falls for a sword later. Medina is lost, and cant be taken back now because of size.
I should have waited a bit.
We also spot two arab Medieval Inf moving north from Basra.
Bombay: Marketplace-HM
Dehli: HM-HM
6 - 610 AD:

All the troops except one are moved out of Mecca. Flip chance 11%.
Second Army unloaded in Kufah. Three eager knights await their great and noble leader.
Iron will be hooked up next turn.

Here is a pic of Mecca.
I will take a little break now as my girlfriend came home.
Then you can also discuss a little.
I will probably play the remaining turns later tonight. If not, I will tell you.

JJ

I suggest you don't load those Knights in the army, unless you have enough other spare Knights to help fight Arabia. Not sure if you play C3C, but armies in PTW are not good.

Lets cut their iron, make sure they stop sending new sword/MI's

Ah, so very true, Smackster. There is a BIG difference between PTW armies and Conqest ones.
I shouldve noticed, almost loosing one at Mecca.

JJ

Ah, so very true, Smackster. There is a BIG difference between PTW armies and Conqest ones.
I shouldve noticed, almost loosing one at Mecca.

JJ
In SG 3 we got so many leaders, and put all our Knights into armies, found that we had no Knights left, just armies. They take so long to heal is one of the main problems I have with them.
I just want to use that other Army when we have enough spare Knights, as we will soon enough. On the other hand a Knight army (healed) will not be attacked by the AI, so it can be used effectively to heard them. However, we don't have that luxury right now.

When you finish for the night, post the save so we can look further. Hopefully you can finish your 10. Don't worry about MM on the last turn, Wotan is next and he loves to do that.

Any ideas on what to take now?
Basra with the iron next to it would be my initial thought.
JJ

Yes, taking the iron city, is as good as cutting the iron. Head that way with the main force, you will have to wait on Medina (they would eventually give it to us in peace so its not problem), and the other Knights to pick of their sword/MDI's.

That knight in Kufah, I suggest you use him too, if there are Knights coming from the sea, they should be able to provide protection if Arabia somehow gets near there. I would suggest that Arabia is on its last knees, so wont put up much more resistance.

Very good we are moving along...
Good turns JJ, keep going.

I guess my turns are next since MjM never showed up....

If we get a leader i suggest convert it to 250cash... that will make 3 horsemen upgrades... better than having an army

When you finish for the night, post the save so we can look further. Hopefully you can finish your 10. Don't worry about MM on the last turn, Wotan is next and he loves to do that.
Yummy, I just love MMing, NOT! There is only one thing worse than being witty and that is not being witty. (Oscar Wilde/Monty Python)

Oh well, I lefdt my last turns to Smackster in a chaos so I guess it is payback time... :)

:bump:
Who's keeping the roster in this game and every time tend to forget about me? :rolleyes:

I don't know why I do that, yes dman is next.

Should I attack Basra on my last turn?
I got like 8 Knights ready.
Not the army since that will probably heal sometime near year 1000.

JJ

Yes, I don't think that is a hard decision, with 8 Knights ready in the middle of the war, just make sure you take it :)

Very good we are moving along...
Good turns JJ, keep going.

I guess my turns are next since MjM never showed up....

If we get a leader i suggest convert it to 250cash... that will make 3 horsemen upgrades... better than having an army
Maybe I should read the instructions better, but how do we get the cash from a leader?

Ok. :) Final turns here:

6 - 610 AD:

All the troops except one are moved out of Mecca. Flip chance 11%.
Second Army unloaded in Kufah. Three eager knights await their great and noble leader.
Iron will be hooked up next turn.

IBT:

Resistance in Mecca ends.
Two MInf move to Medina.
Washington: Worker-worker
Calcutta HM-Knight

7 - 620 AD:

We stack troops on the hill west of Medina to be ready for a counterattack.
Also scout towards Basra and rest troops outside of Mecca.
Upgrade HM to knights as iron is hooked up now.

IBT:

Bangalore: HM-Knight
Bombay: HM-Knight
Dehli: HM-Knight
Mecca starves.
Mongols offer a deal not worth mentioning here.

8 - 630 AD:

Reinforcements moving towards Mecca.
Chicago now has 6 knights.
Do some upgrades to knights.

IBT:

Philly: Barracks-Knight
Miami: Barracks-Knight
Washington: Worker - Marketplace (can be switched, not sure how many workers we need,
but washington can keep pumping them out if need be.)

Abe is mad. We violate the waters west of Buffalo, he calls us fools and so on.
Mecca starves.

9 - 640 AD:

Moving troops setting up.
Will attack Basra next turn, if that is cool to do the last turn that is...
Got 7 knights outside.

IBT:

St.Louis: Spearman-Harbor
Bombay: HM-HM
Boston: Worker-HM

10 - 650 AD:

Attack on Basra.
Knight-Pike - Knight 2 hp
Knight-Spear - Knight no damage
Knight-Spear - Knight no damage!
Basra is ours to keep. Also the arab iron.
4 resisters. We move the rest of the troops into it to quell the oppression.
Arab capital moved to Baghdad.
We also take out a Medival Inf.
I have seen a couple move up towards Medina, so there might be a couple in that city.

So thats it.
For now :)

Will upload the save now.

Firaxis score: 300
Jason score: 196

Maybe I should read the instructions better, but how do we get the cash from a leader?
that i don't know... I guess M-B will give us a hint :)


Good turns JJ!!!!! :goodjob:
If you give me enough instructions i can play tonight if not i will wait until tomorrow

Looks good. Lets see what Arabia will give for peace now. Might need to take one or two more cities first. Then France is up.

What are the Knights doing in Chicago, I guess that is next to Spain? If so then we should start that takeover now too.

I just set the table for d-man to brutally oppress the spaniards :D

Arabia wont give much for peace, only 2-3 small towns. We need to take Baghdad and Narjan first since they are quite big.

It must have something to do with us playing russians in this game. I guess he blends in too well so you view him as part of the game not part of the team... :D :D :D

Arabia wont give much for peace, only 2-3 small towns. We need to take Baghdad and Narjan first since they are quite big.
I would like us to kill them off. No reason to leave any of them in the area. It was a different story with America/India where their new capitals were far from their starting gounds. With a bit of luck they should be gone during Dmans turns, at the latest during my stint. No risk they will flip and we can move everything south.

BTW, we should put America out of their misery too. Peace deal expires during Dmans turns.

Good night, I expect to wake up to an Arab and America free game tomorrow! ;) Good luck Dman! And well played jj!

I've looked at the save now.

1) Palace Jump We need to take, Baghdad, Medina, Najaran and Damascus, and get Mecca to size 12. At that point we may only need about 5 troops there to jump it. Nearer the time I'll do the precise calculations, the above is a rough guess, but we need all the above before we can even think about it.

2) Declare war on spain and send in the troops before hitting end turn. We do need the forces going west and east

3) Finish off both India and America

4) Reputation Time to consider ROP rape on France. Once we get peace with Arabia (capture the above) we should get a number of cities, we should take their last by breaking peace with them. If we get ROP with France (need embassy) and Iro first then we may be able to ROP rape both of them. Doesn't have to be very exotic, like get to their iron, cut it and take a few cities first turn. Anything now to get us a few extra turns.

Ok, I need a piece of advice here...
I loaded the save, MMd a little, declared on Spain and clicked next turn.
Joanne comes and asks to extend a peace treaty...
What do i do???
I dont want to have another 20 turns of peace with France unless we want to RoP here... having 2 wars on new continent makes it a little harder but manageable.
What do you reckon i should do?
I am having civ running on background and Joanne is waiting on our answer. :)


Edit: I had the same exact situation before in another SG. What fellows civ fanatics told me is that AI will always come to renegotiate the peace deal if previous peace deal included any kind of gpt, lux, resource deal in addition to actual peace... We've got to be careful so the situation like this doesn't affect our game play.


more edit: i hope somebody will get my message soon

Accept her peace and break it when you are ready, you don't need to ROP rape her too, unless you feel you get an advantage. We are long past needing a reputation.

edit : note there is a difference between breaking a peace deal, and ROP raping.

Ok, I am back online and sorry for the delay.
Didn't have a chance to play yesterday night, but will start playing in about 30-40 minutes from now.

Good luck, I would not have had an opportunity to play earlier today anyway: i will be able to pick it up tomorrow morning though.

Edit: I had the same exact situation before in another SG. What fellows civ fanatics told me is that AI will always come to renegotiate the peace deal if previous peace deal included any kind of gpt, lux, resource deal in addition to actual peace... We've got to be careful so the situation like this doesn't affect our game play.

This is a good point and I'd never understood why they come to renegotiate sometimes. I think we got 1 GPT from France so was not worth doing. I'm interested to know if this is the same for renegotiate peace (as opposed to peace at the end of a war), for instance we are getting 9 GPT from Scandy, I assume that when that deal ends they will come for another 20 turns of peace. With Scandy at 9GPT, I would say that deal was worth it.

I have not seen any good opportunities for phoney wars, as we don't have many embassies, we don't have spare cash, and don't have techs we would give away.

You might want to consider sending our second army south to do some resource cutting. Oh wait, need to check if they can pillage, if not can we afford to send another knight/horse with him.

Pre-turn.
Declare on Spain and enter their territory with everything with have in Chicago.
MM around Delhi, Bangalore and Wash.

IBT. France demands peace extension. Ok we will do it...

T1 660AD
Delhi HM->HM

Spain Front:
Attacking Toledo and Madrid and both taken with only knight lost. We have Great Wall in our possession.

Arab front:
Moved knights toward Baghdad and Najran.

3 Civilizations know Chivalry... I think I am going to trade chivalry, but right now all AIs broke.

IBT: Looks like Americans have at least 6 units on their island... We will need to take them in one turn to prevent major riots in our cities.

T2. 670AD.
Iron hooked upgraded 4 horses. Iron unhooked.
Spanish front:
Moved units towards Barcelona. Attack in 2 turns due to forests and hills.

Arab front:
Captured Medina.
Failed to take the Baghdad. Last pesky spearman forced 2 of our knights to retreat.
I shall wait for the attack next turn.
Najran to be taken next turn as well.

T3 680AD
Arab front:
Killed Warrior, sword and MDI in open field.
Captured Najran, Baghdad. Next target - Damascus.

Spanish front. Moving units towards Barcelona.

Home land: NY Temple-> Market. Chicago horse->Courthouse.

IBT Iroq. and France signed peace treaty.
Resistance in Madrid ended. Bombay HM->HM. Philadelphia worker->worker, Calcutta HM->HM

T4. 690 AD
Spanish Front:
Captured Barcelona lost 1 knight.

Arab front:
Waiting for troops to heal before attacking Damascus.

American front:
I have 6 knights prepared to attack America.

T5 700AD Declared on America. 6 knights near Boston hope that is going to be enough. Hired bunch of clowns in all former American cities to prevent rioting.
Killed 3 Arab archers in open. Will move towards Damascus next turn.

IBT: 3 Am. archers were killed while attacking our knights near Boston.
Wash., Atlanta are rioting. Bombay HM->HM, Calcutta HM->HM

T6. 710AD
Seattle harbor-> barracks.

American front:
Killed 4 spears and no casualties for us in Boston but there is an archer left in that city. We have to wait another turn.
Arab front:
Damascus is captured. We lost an elite knight.
Spanish front:
Moving all available troops for the attack next turn

IBT: Spain asks for peace, we reject.
Scandinavia asking for the extension of peace treaty we accept (again, they showed up because we have 9gpt in addition to peace deal)

T7 720AD.
American front:
It's over, America is no more.

Spanish front: Seville is captured with no losses. The rest of Spanish cities are far away in mountain range. Oh, there is another Spanish city on the central island.

Some of the AIs know invention.... I swear they didn't know it on previous turn because I have Civ assist running. But the same AIs who know invention know chivalry, so we can't trade one for the other....
We will have to wait another turn or maybe even until the next player's turns.

T8. 730 AD. Iron hooked, upgraded HM, iron unhooked.

Arab front: Ajran is captured - lost 1 knight.

Moving knights from American island to the Arab continent
Can't fight Spain, we might prepare for the attack on Egypt.
I have serious problems with my computer system. Communication device that connects chair with keyboard failed to operate properly and as a result we are at war with China :suicide: . (Went to the diplomacy and clicked wrong buttons with mouse)

T9: 740 AD

Arab Front:Yamama captured.
Keep moving knights from American island to the Arab continent

T10 750AD

Arab front:
Fustat captured. Wash. and Philly rioted. :smoke:

Didn't do much last turn. Few workers are awaiting orders


We need desperately courthouse in NY.
The rest of Arab cities are buried in deep desert. It will take some time to take them out. We probably want to consolidate our forces and attack France before finishing of Arabs.

If we move few more units towards Egypt we can also start picking at them. Hopefully palace jump will be possible to implement during Wotan's turns.

Didn't do any trades during my turns either. Didn't populate second army due to the temporary luck of troops. ARMIES CAN PILLAGE....

I hope Wotan can fix my mess and won't be too :aargh: at me.

East:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/750ADST-east.jpg

West:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/750ADST-west.jpg

Jason-238 (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Smackster_SG005_AD0750_01.SAV)

Good progress, but still a long way to go I think.

1) Lets utilise every resource to continue the fight. I see a lot of Knights playing reserve in places like Najaran and Mecca, lets get them all to the front lines and move in on France. I'd get ROPS with France and Iro and use them. Time for our army to get cutting.

1a) Arabia will give us three cities for peace, and leave the two near us that we can easily take when we break the peace. Even though at least one of those other cities is not the best position for us, take them in peace anyway and abandon ones we can't defend. Remember this is conquest, we only need cities in our core and a few in the front lines for healing etc.

2) We need to start the Mecca building campaign for the jump. Should be easier once we can finish off Arabia for good.

3) Lets see if we can work out a way to get somebody to fight against China.

4) We need some harbours to hook up our luxuries. There are two on the new continent that are not helping us on the old.

5) Take the fight to Egypt, I see two Knights sitting in Seville eating Tapas. There is one in Toledo aparantly resistance busting, forget that, get him to the front.

6) We can get two cities from the Spanish, Santiago and Mercia, take them and abandon them (too close to Egypt)

Pretty much agree with everything Smackster said, in my defence those knights in Mecca arab land don't play reserve... They have just returned after busting America and intended to move south fighting France.

I thought about harbors myself for luxuries...
It makes sense to rush a harbor in Kufah if it will help us to hook up luxuries between two continents and drop slider down. We will recoup those money in just few turns.

I did notice that Japan has a one tile island, so we need to make sure we get that in a peace deal with them, when we get down there.

Good catch.....
It would be a total disaster if we had to research marines :eek:

OK, I've got it. Will play today so hopefully by midday ECT the save will be posted.
1. Finish off Arabia. Peace + broken agreement.
2. Peace with Spain.
3. Egypt!
4. RoP w. France/Iroquois
5. Attack France and destroy whatever rep we might have.
6. Jump to Mecca.

MM around Delhi, Bangalore and Wash.

Was there lots of stuff to rearrange, dman?
You know, its nice to know what couldve been better :)

Progress looks nice and dandy.

JJ

Not much,
Same thing i told before your turn... switch BG between Delhi and Bangalore, so Bangalore can benefit from extra shields instead of wasting it on sea tile..
I also hired few specialists in Wash. since that cities overproduces food and doesn't so many citizens on flood plains to grow.

Turn log

0 – 750AD Pre-flight
Peace with Arabia, we get Mansura, Bukhara, Aleppo and 24 gold. Peace with Spain, we get Murcia, Santiago, Ciudad de la Luna and 12 gold. I plan and plan and plan. Finally see a solution to war with France without us ruining our rep over them, will have units in place in three turns to cut all resources they have connected, 2 horses and one iron. The one-tile island worries me. What if we wreak our rep and we cannot make a peace deal with Japan for the island?

1 – 760AD
So many cities now so I guess a rundown of what is produced is less important.
Iron hooked up and 4 Knights upgraded, next turn another Knight will be upgraded before unhooking it again.

France and Iroquois at war!!! In two turns France will have moved any surplus they have towards Iroquois and we will have an easy task. Will DoW Egypt next turn.

2 – 770AD
Dow Egypt, move in on Thebes with 7 Knights and Horsemen. Disconnect Iron.

3 – 780AD
3 Knights was enough to take Thebes, no losses! Only three Spearmen defending it! Pyramids are now ours! Alexandria was defended by one Pike and one spear, only two Knights attacked and took it. Two Horsemen without a mission left! ;)

DoW France. Chartres falls, One Knight killed one promoted to Elite.

4 – 790AD
Memphis falls. Lyons falls.

5 – 800AD
Harbours built on both continents, no “contact” though???. I thought it was enough to have a ship able to cross. So not until Astronomy… Paris falls.

6 – 810AD
Cut Egyptian Iron. Orleans falls. Peace with China, we get 7 gold but no cities, Smallest Chinese city is size 2.

7 – 820AD
Of course, China have a size 1 city now! Too late… Connect iron, 3 Knights.
Rheims and Rouen falls. France are now 1 size 2 capital and 7 size 1 cities. Need to wait a couple of mere turns for them to give us more. Now they offer 3 of the cities for peace.

IBT: Lyons flips.

8 – 830AD
Tonawanda and Besancon falls. Heliopolis and

9 – 840AD
We retake Lyons. Peace with France for all cities (4) but their Capital. We jump capital to Mecca.

10 – 850AD
Pi-Ramesses falls. When attacking I used a Elite Horseman as the second unit to attack by mistake, but it works out just fine since Comrade Stalin steps up. Peace with Egypt for all cities but their capital.

After action report:
Research: Invention in 2 turns. GL will be ours when we take Kyoto so no need to research in any real way.

Peace across the map. I have left most units wo moving them on the last turn. We are gearing up for war on Iroquois now. If we can start that war honourably and wait with the RoP rape until after we have secured the one-tile Japanese island in a peace I would be less worried.

One –tile islands: Two left near Heliopolis, I have started building a galley there, as soon as the resistance is gone rush it, send two horsemen with it and put one on each of the two one –tile islands off the coast.

Both Egypt and France down to one location, just wait 20 turns and take them out… Arabia has a one-tile island so we cannot force them out of the game. In 10 turns we can DoW again. Take their present capital and demand the island. Then wait for “the mother of all rep destructions” after we have received the one-tile Japanese island. To help us gain the japanese island we should build a few galleys on that coast and put them on the sea tiles that produce more than 1 food so the city shrinks. Spain also ready for a new war in 10 turns time.

We should shift the connect/disconnect process to our new capital sphere. We can build HMs in former india and wait for them to be transported there for upgrades.
Two Knights on the central island. Should be enough to take Zaragosa in 10 turns time, but if you feel unlucky we could send a couple of extra HMs there. A galley is being built in Bangalore.

Mecca looks like it will shrink but it will expand culture this turn so better tiles will be available for food production before it shrinks.

Forgot about India. We should put them out of their misery.

And, we need to start thinking about a landing in Scandinavia.

Firaxis: 456

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/smackstereast1.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/smacksterwest1.JPG

9 – 840AD
We retake Lyons. Peace with France for all cities (4) but their Capital. We jump capital to Mecca.


Wait, did you say jumped capital to Mecca. Guess it worked ok?

Wait, did you say jumped capital to Mecca. Guess it worked ok?
Yup, I joined 8 of our "own" workers to it. I did not even have to add any military units to it.

Great turns as usually Wotan!!!
Thos one tile islands are worrying me...
I bet M-B put them just for the reason...
We should dump our units on all un-occupied one tile islands to prevent AIs from colonizing those... Even slaves will do the job. no need to use military units. (well... i wonder how many chances of Scandinavians using berserks to attack those islands).

Do we need to get an alliance with somebody against Japanese?? Their Samurai's can cause major losses in our army.

Another team to watch for - Jeffelammer... Looks like they started conquest same turn we did...
Another thing we should be worried is accidental domination victory... This map has only 27% of land, so we need to start checking soon on dom. limits.

You know guys, unless you confident, we might have to start researching towards Marines...

Zulu and England have 1 tile islands (cities pop 2 and pop 4) with fish source...
It will be hard to get those in peace deal and we will need many galleys and quite few turns to starve them. This game will have to be played with surgical precision.

@M-B: Did you intentionaly put those islands on the map? It wasn't at all random, or was it? ;)

As long as we don't let the palace go to the one tile islands, we should be able to take them. Just two galleys at Nagasaki should starve that down. I didn't notice that Arabian island before, so we have to be really careful.

I'll study the map and post my thoughts, will play tonight.

smackster

So I agree lets keep our rep until we get those one tile islands. I think there is a good chance that would make no difference, but with this situation we can't afford to risk it.

Japan will be tough to beat, but we should be able to build enough Knights that even the Samurai will not help them.

Plans

New leader army for invasion of Scandy

Both armies in the east will invade Iro, although it looks like taking their cities will be quicker than cutting their iron. Start to move the Knights to the border.

Start building galleys in the west and moving everything I can.

T0 850AD
Forces march on Iroqois. Start to build for operations mop up the western mountains and invade scandiavia

T1 860AD
Rush galley in the west, to get the single tile islands. Start sending troops to finish off india.

T2 870AD
Invention comes in. Troops move to the front lines of Iroqois, ready next turn to attack, both armies in place.

Galley leaves the shore for the one tile island.

We rush two galleys to the east, in preperation for the Japanese island. I don't like to spend the cash, but I think its needed.

T3 880AD
Declare on Iroquois, declare on India

We pick off Iro stragglers, and move on their cities, attack next turn. They have two MI's in the mountains that we'll watch.

My turn for a mistake as I wrote about declaring war on India, moved my troops in but didn't actually declare war. No real harm, I'll move them out, declare then back.

T4 890AD
India ask us to leave which is convenient. This time we declare war.

Back at Iroqois Grand River and Centralia are taken for the loss of one Knight each. Both armies move towards Salamana. My goal is that Knights will attack first, and only one of the armies will attack healed troops, the second army will only be used to pickoff wounded defenders

Upgrade a few horses, some are getting near the front lines before they are upgraded, just depends where they are and where the barracks are.

T5 900AD
Iro show us Mounted warriors but their attacks is beaten off by our knights.

India show a War Elephant in their capital, and we are attacking with only horses. We have good luck as the capital is taken with only one loss. Their last city goes down to and we take all their 58 gold. India is no more.

Three Knights attack Salamanca, there was one pike defender, Salamanca is taken. The armies were standing in reserver not required. They now move south to Muach Chunk on the border of Japan, with both armies there, now is the time, we have 384 gold. War with Japan, see if we can buy Celts into it. If we are still concerned about Rep we can by pass Celts get ROP with them and move to England and finish Celts later.

The Celts join for 160 gold, I just a little concerned that Japan may hurt them, well not really :)

We continue the attack on Iro by taking Alleghany without loss. Clean up their wandering MI.

Galley arrives at Nagasaki, but of course we can't sit on the whales as they are at sea. This is the main goal of fighting Japan to get that city

T6 910AD
No visible response from Japan.

We take Mauch Chunk for the loss of one. The rest pile into Mauch Chunk. The second army heads south alone, spies MI and 2 Samurai in various places. The army is three turns from their iron.
Realise tha the Celts will give us cash for Reneg peace, so we get 80 gold back for that.

T7 920AD
Japan wander by our armies with Samurai. Predictably we lose 3 Knights attacking one in the open. The other Knight heads to their iron at least to stem that flow.

Another fleet of horses are upgraded.

Horses, and army and Knights arrive due north of Scandinavia. There are stacks and stacks of cities on our peninsular, which are best got through peace deals, when the time is right.


T8 930AD
Samurai wanders past our army and is blitzed.

Salamanc flips, but is taken back.

Niagra is attacked from two sides, and in a strange irony it Niagra, falls.

With reinforcements arriving at Mauch Chunk, its time to move on Tokyo. The Samurai defender is killed by the first Knight without damage, only pikes remain. The army wins but predictably is heavily damaged, the next Knight retreats and the next dies leaving a longbow defender.

Oil Springs is taken

T9 940AD
Japanese attack back, lb against our army, we survive bairly, then a Sam kills a knight and takes on damage then runs to Tokyo. We have enough troops near Tokyo now, and its taken without further loss.
Nagasaki is now size 3, but too early for Japan to talk to us.
The army arrives at Japans iron.

To the west troops start to load into galleys to move to Scany.

T9 950AD
Perfect timing as Japan complete Leo's for us, that will really help as we can't generate the cash for upgrades

The army cuts Japans iron and move towards their horses.

Knights attack Kagoshima and that is taken. Japan showing us lots of archers.

Knights arrive at Kyoto which is predictably showing a Samurai, most likely that is the only one.

Although I had a knight on the little island Egypt drop a settler there, I pull it off to our galley to wait out peace

Japan will now talk but are insulted by thoughts of giving up Nagasaki

Firaxis score 582

The front lines with Japan, and Iroquois

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/950ad1.jpg

Note the pickup point with Army, in byblos

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/scandy.jpg

Battle for Kyoto. I have put a couple of Knights to have a look at Kyoto, but we probably need to plan well for this battle. Maybe we should start with Osaka.

We are making good progress. A few items on the agenda for the next player:
1. Finish off Spain.
2. Let the Arabian Settler settle. It is probably going for a tile near the Iron east of Mecca. Make sure, by placing units on tiles, to herd it to a location of our choice. We do want it at distance 5! Absolutely not allowed for it is to settle closer to Mecca than 5 so the tile SW of the iron is an absolute no-no, as is on top of iron for obvious reasons. Best would be the forest NW of iron. After that attack Arabia, take out Capital, wait until they will give us the island. After that it is probably a question of breaking peace and garb whats left.
3. We need to take Beijing soon. It will give us the Lighthouse! So we can put a galley on the Whale near Nagasaki. N. will not shrink to size 2 unless we interdict the Whale. Take all Japanese cities but Nagoya. After that is accomplished we need a peace with N. as part of the agreement. Or take peace at first opportunity after taking Kyoto if they give us N.
4. Send a few units toward Hieraconpolis. In 10 turns peace with Egypt expires and we need to take them out. Also keep the two Knights on the Galley in the north until we decalre on Egypt again. They will be needed to take out the new Egyptian city that will be founded on the 3-tile island.
5. Peace with France expires in 9 turns, be ready to take them out when that happens...

Roster

dman (on deck)
Wotan
smackster (just played)
tomasjj (playing)
MjM (auto skip)
Tarkeel (auto skip)

Another problem we will have with Zulus, they have one tile island with fish and it is size 4....
We should plan in advance and have galleys surrounded that island when we DoW on Zulu

(...i am repeating myself but england also has 1tile island)

Another problem we will have with Zulus, they have one tile island with fish and it is size 4....
We should plan in advance and have galleys surrounded that island when we DoW on Zulu

(...i am repeating myself but england also has 1tile island)
Can't believe all these one tile islands, where is Mad-Bax, I'm going to have a word with him :mad:
We are going to have to be really careful trying to take them all.

smackster

It will be quite pity if any team in competition will miss or miscalculate those islands and AI will be left with the only city on such an island...
That will mean manual researhc until the end of Ind. Ages and forget about the Laurels..
I don't think it was a good idea to put those islands on the map. It brings a lot of randomness and luck into the game. If SGOTM is the competition about team's skill and that is what M-B is trying to do by removing many of the leader attributes it is not right to keep 1 tile islands present.

I'm not really mad about it, I was joking. I'm sure M-B did it on purpose and all teams will have to face it and I like it as a good challenge, well that is because I'm still confident that we can get them all. The only one I'm really concerned about is Arabia as we got our first peace with them before they had it, and I wish we'd noticed it before (I assume it was shrouded out or something).

Doink its easy. Gift them a load of cities in far off places. Move troops close by. Declare war. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, until they will talk peace. Then take all those cities back, on the same turn, take the capital on the same turn, raize it. Then I guarantee they will give us the one tiler. I believe the maximum amount of damage done on the same turn makes the difference what they will give us for peace (over time the effect of the damage is reduced, we don't know by how much, but to maximise it do it the same turn).

Just make sure the capital does not go to the island.

If my calculations are right, we only need to put a galley on the Nagasaki whale for a turn to get it down to size 2. For it to drop to size 3, the food box was empty, obviously they had no granary, so its still empty. Its size 3, and gets 6 food from tiles (center -2, 2 sea -2, 1 whale -2), and requires 6 food, so its still empty. Just one turn on the whale will get it to size 2.

We just have to build a couple of galleys and one is sure to survive and it will shrink. Time that with the turn that we finish off their second from last city. Actually we should do a test run. Actually I wonder if it will shrink before it sinks, I think it might.

smackster

Guys.
I can play tomorrow night CET. If you are cool with that, fine.
If not, please go ahead and bump/skip me.

JJ

Tomorrow is fine for me since i am next player and I can't play tonight anyway.
I believe we are on a good schedule. :)

Tomorrow is fine.

I'll make a list of cities to gift to Arabia. Question, if we gift a size one no culture city, and then capture it back, does it get auto raized (not that we really want them)

BTW we are nowhere near dom limit so that is not an issue.

Actually we should do a test run. Actually I wonder if it will shrink before it sinks, I think it might.

It should. Ships lost at sea is the last thing to happen before you regain contol of the game. So I guess we might do with just one galley even if it sinks.

I'll make a list of cities to gift to Arabia. Question, if we gift a size one no culture city, and then capture it back, does it get auto raized (not that we really want them).
There is also a time factor in that you will not be able to speak with your adversary until after a number of turns of war. How many I do not know?

There is also a time factor in that you will not be able to speak with your adversary until after a number of turns of war. How many I do not know?

that may not be always true...
I saw multiple claims on this web site that if you capture raize enough cities AI will talk to you the same turn...
Whether it is actually true or urban legend and how many cities needed to be captured i don't know.

There is also a time factor in that you will not be able to speak with your adversary until after a number of turns of war. How many I do not know?
Yes, that is why I put it in order. Gift x cities to Arabia, declare war, _do not attack_, wait, wait, wait, wait, until they will talk to us. Then in one turn, hit them, hit them hard, take all those cities back. All the ones we gift will remain undefended.

that may not be always true...
I saw multiple claims on this web site that if you capture raize enough cities AI will talk to you the same turn...
Whether it is actually true or urban legend and how many cities needed to be captured i don't know.
I'm pretty sure that its urban legend. I had a couple of games where I tried it and raized city after city in one turn, and they still would not talk. Even if there is some truth to it, we can't rely on it, so we should do my plan. Each city we take seems to have value, even if its a city that we just gifted to them. You can see this effect with WW, if you capture an AI city, and they capture it back next turn, you get WW like you lost one of your own cities.

Also the value you get for capturing cities does seem to be dependant on how much worth the AI puts to a city. I think its seems to be based on size of city, and capital (although it may just be that the capital is always big). So if we gift them a few size 4 cities (or whatever), then we can jump capital where we want, and capture their new capital a few times as we jump it around.

Just make sure we don't jump it to the one tile :)

Just make sure we don't jump it to the one tile :)

Is MjM here??? i am sure he will pull the trick. :)

Sorry for the sarcasm, but seriously if our student wants to be part of this game he better show up. He can't expect to be part of the team without showing up at all.

We need to put a requirement into team entry in the future, that you are on the forum everyday (apart from standard times you are away). There is no point being on this team if you are not, there are too many posts, and you get too far behind, regardless of skill. I would welcome new players to the team, on the condition that they are prepared to put the required time in.

Tarkeel's new life means he can't really keep up now, I don't think MjM joined this realising what it would be like and I don't think it makes sense to step back into this now.

Regular SG's are different, where you don't really have to pay attention until its your turn.

In my opinion, we only have 4 players on the roster right now, and the others will only be let back in after a sustained period of thread input.

Its seems only fair to the 4 of us that have put in so much time and effort into this game.

edit : note about new players in first paragraph

smackster

Is MjM here??? i am sure he will pull the trick. :)

Sorry for the sarcasm, but seriously if our student wants to be part of this game he better show up. He can't expect to be part of the team without showing up at all.

I guess I deserve that for my last set of turns. :mischief:

@Smackster - Christmas break is only 4 days away , ill be on the forums eveyday from there on to Januaryish , even right now I dont how much to do.

So I will participate if you guys still want me too.

I guess I deserve that for my last set of turns. :mischief:

@Smackster - Christmas break is only 4 days away , ill be on the forums eveyday from there on to Januaryish , even right now I dont how much to do.

So I will participate if you guys still want me too.
This game is getting very complicated, but if you join in and show that you are with us then I'm sure the team will be happy for you to play it.

@MjM: I believe all you need to do is showing up here, talking, throwing your ideas even most absurd ones and be the team member....
Once you learn what our situation is I am sure you will be put back into the roster again and no offence here... This is a competition after all and team Smackster finally wants to get its hands on that Golden laurel.


EDIT: Hey.... look at Smacster's and mine posts... we posted the very same minute with basically the same message...
Although i had to do more typing so i think i really should be the 1st one :mischief:

EDIT: Hey.... look at Smacster's and mine posts... we posted the very same minute with basically the same message...
Although i had to do more typing so i think i really should be the 1st one :mischief:
Less is more

Less is more

Precisely :p

smackster 205
dmanakho 147
Wotan 100
tomasjj 72
MjM 40
Tarkeel 18
mad-bax 10

I've had more posts on my own than some entire teams :)

There is a good core of totally corrupt cities to gift to Arabia. We can use those same cities for England/Zulu later.

Thebes, Alexandria, Seville, Barcelona, Madrid.

They are size 3-7 and in range of our core so we can get 5 horses there, who can take them all back in one turn without breaking rep, or risk of auto raize. There are three horses right there, use the ones from New York, and Washington and those 5 should be used to retake them.

Most important thing is to get Fez in a peace deal.

Turn of events should be

Gift 5 cities to Arabia
Declare war (next turn we have troops around those cities, move them out)
Move the horses into place, but you'll need to wait for peace
When they will negotiate, only then, take Muscat, use 3-4 Knights.
On the turn that Muscat falls, go to dip, see if they will give us Fez for peace.
The palace should be in the 5 now.
Take the one with the palace, go to dip, see if they will give us Fez for peace
Repeat for all 5 until the palace has jumped back to Aden. Then stop if we still don't have Fez we are in trouble.

If Fez is size 2 then stop before destroying all 5 on the other continent.

Hmm. I have read through here, and its getting messy. At least for me :)

-So what is the take on the Scandi invasion?
-And I saw that about taking out Egypt in ten turns time.

Then it is Japan, which Smackster described early on after his turns.
Galley towards the whale to shrink one-tiler, so that we get it in peace deal. But we will need to war against china to do that (getting the lighthouse in Beiijing right?)

And, naturally, the arabia issue. Getting Fez in a deal, set-up as described above.

Finish off Spain, and France when peace expires. (I hope there are troops for all this...)

Looking at the save now to get the firm picture.

Please dont hesitate to map out some more guidelines.

And whats this about gifting cities? Is that if all else fails regarding the one-tilers?


jj

Things are getting messy for me too...
Maybe wotan and smackster can come up with detailed plan for you and me.
We also need to build more galleys to starve Zulu and English 1tile islands and we better start building them now, so we don't have to wait later.

Here is a list

1) Arabia - Start the city gifting next turn to Arabia, gift those 5 I described, this is a setup we can use again and again, so it will be a good test. We don't know if we can get Fez, so this makes sure. Make sure we dont break rep, as there are units around those gifted cities, and then declare war. Wait until peace and take cities until we can get Fez, make sure the capital does not go to Fez, take back our cities and get Fez.

2) Scandy - Dump about 8 knights/horses in Scandy, and then attack

3) Japan - Keep fighting them and taking their cities. High flip chances, Samurai, just have to keep bashing them until they submit. Do not let the capital go to Nagasaki, or the game is over. After you take their capital, when they will talk peace, then put the galley on the whaile and see if we can get Nagasaki next turn. Don't wait for Lighthouse. Rush another galley in that area (I think there is one coming with a Knight) so that we can rinse and repeat.

4) Spain/France/Egypt - no priority, but if you have troops when peace expires then finish them

5) China- I don't quite see getting to China in your turns, but if the conditions are right then start on them. Great Lighthouse will be nice. Depends how easy Scandy fall.

6) England - When we are close enough to england, I suggest before any war with England that you gift them the 5 cities. Don't retake them until they will talk peace. Goal is to get the one tile again.

7) Zulu - Same as England

Feel free to take a couple of days over your turns.

And whats this about gifting cities? Is that if all else fails regarding the one-tilers?
jj
Thing is with this technique, we have to do the gifting prior to war, so it has to be well planned in advance. The cities we are gifting are no value to us. If we go to war and then find we can't get the one tiles, you have to go to peace, then wait 20 turns, then go to war then wait for peace. So gift them now and we can be sure, there is nothing to lose by gifting, as we can take them back. The AI is poor and will not put any defence in those cities.

Note that the only reason we need to capture cities from now, is to push back AI cultue and to give us some forward barracks. There are not points for firaxis score here.

Aye.

I might take some time on this. I dont want to mess it up, so the save will be studied along with the instructions/advice.

JJ

Here is a list

5) China- I don't quite see getting to China in your turns, but if the conditions are right then start on them. In fact I suggest before any war with China that you gift them the 5 cities. Don't retake them until they will talk peace. Goal is to get the one tile again.


China??? I can't check right now from work. But i don't remember China having 1 tile islands. Or am i wrong? I remember Arabs, Japs, Zulu and England have those nasty 1 tiles....

China have the Lighthouse!

Yeah, I know, but is that good enough reason to gift them cities instead of simply taking all they have????????? :confused:

China??? I can't check right now from work. But i don't remember China having 1 tile islands. Or am i wrong? I remember Arabs, Japs, Zulu and England have those nasty 1 tiles....
Sorry its England and Zulu.

We could skip Scandy, get a ROP and alliance with them and send our troops to capture the GL

Yeah, I know, but is that good enough reason to gift them cities instead of simply taking all they have????????? :confused:
No gifting is only for those with 1 tile Islands. The gifting is temporary in any case. Actually the gifting might be used against any Republic civ as taking those cities will put them into WW straight away.

Aye.
I might take some time on this. I dont want to mess it up, so the save will be studied along with the instructions/advice.

Any progress, remember you have to devote your life to this game once you are up :)

Any progress, remember you have to devote your life to this game once you are up :)


Hehe.. I dont think I am quite ready to devote my whole life into this.

Anyway, I reckon I will play in a couple of hours.
I sort of kept a slot open tonight to get the turns done in a proper way.

JJ

What about trading?
no real deal? Just keep them backwards and jump on a deal if its sweet enough and doesnt backfire on our campaign for world domination, I mean conquest :) ?

JJ

I believe we are about to capture Great Library in Kyoto...
So tech trading probably isn't needed.

Aye!
Copy that, d-man.

JJ

Double check that. I think it is in Kyoto, but i may be wrong, I often am :)

Its one of those Japanese cities, probably Kyoto. Hopefully they only have one Samurai there, so might be worth knocking out the other cities first, unless you can get enough Knights in place, I'd say 7-8 Knights and an army to attack Kyoto.

All I ask from the team when they are playing is to tell us when, and keep us updated if things change. Silence is the only thing we don't like.

Pre-turn:

Lurking around.
Trying to figure out the complexity, and the plans that are for units here and there.

England wants our maps, we say "Aye" when they give us gold too.
Japanese longbowman attacks one of our knights outside Tokyo, redlines it.

Paris flips :(
Murcia: Galley-Galley
New York, Lahore, Dehli and Madras: HM-HM
Tokyo flips too.


1 - 960 AD:

Paris flipping was kind of beat as that means our troop movement path has foreign land in it.
Will deal with that.
Gift Arabia: Madrid, Barcelona, Seville, Thebes and Alexandria.
Remove troops around the cities and then declaire on Arabia.
We take Osaka.
We re-take Tokyo.
Move out of Kagoshima as its about to flip (43%).
Surround Iroquis capital.

IBT: Janie is mad for our knights, but this is kind of enroute towards the front.
I know our rep will take a hit for breaking the peace, but this kind of sucks, so we say war.
Some riots because of this. (I do hope you are ok with this, but this little girl is just annoying me now....)

2 - 970 AD:

We take Paris back, and roll through.
Ready for Kyoto.

IBT: France retake Rheims. She had some spears in the mountains that I didnt see cause we had no troops around there.
Zulu complete Art of War.

3 - 980 AD:

Kyoto is under attack. It seems pretty well defended, Samurai and at least 4 pikes.
They still wont give us Nagasaki.

4 - 990 AD:

We take Cattaragus. Capital moved to Khanawake.


5 - 1000 AD:

We loose 4 knights at gates of Kyoto. Only one Samurai left now, and two longbowmen coming in to support.
Damn. We had like one army and 8 knights+ there.
Arabs will now give us Fez in a peace deal.

So I post now for debate.

JJ

That redlined samurai will heal next turn, and Japs most likely will rush another pike.

Our rep is ruined, or was it ruined already?
But i guess you didn't have another choice.
Bottom line - nobody will give us RoP agreement...
Will load save tonight, hopefully Wotan can do it now before Smackster and I go home.

If Arabs give us one tile island then take it now.

In hindsight, it was a mistake to break peace, but I got irrational.
I like getting irrational from time to time, but I did not intend to ruin anything for the team.
Sorry if this mess things up seriously.
JJ

It probably doesn't mess things up much...

I was scratching my head lately thinking if it was a much bigger mistake not researching at max towards MT.....

Right now we just have to push with everything we have


EDIT: it is probably a good idea to start razing non-productive AIs cities unless there is a reason to keep them (like wonders, needed for gifting back for 1 tile islands deals, reheal troops, etc...) So if we don' tneed Paris for any reason i'd say raze it.

Yeah, I was wondering if I should start razing, but then again, it didnt look like it had been done by the others.
They might not have needed to raze yet.

Actually, I have really shiit my pants here by moving horsemen past chicago (last barracks in the west-end.) I really hope that doesnt slow us down too much.
I guess there were too many things to take care of here compared to what I am used to.
JJ

Why didn't you just ask for a ROP. From what I read she said leave, and you said war, that is not only breaking peace, but breaking ROP, for what purpose?. I wanted to save our ROP reputation for a sneak attack later.

I don't think it will make that much difference to our end date, but I think there are going to be a few teams close to us, so we need every turn and every trick to go right to win this.

I can't look at the save until later, but having got Kyoto so close we need to take it, but obviously I can't see how many troops we have.

For cities that don't have a wonder, and have a flip chance we can raize them. Unless that city is pushing back culture. Now that we are at war with France, just finish them off, and then we wont need to raize any of their cities. Having broken our rep, we might as well finish off Arabia now too. Once rep is broken, you can keep breaking it and it makes no difference.

OK, the position is somewhat in chaos. We need to sort things out fast.

1. Kyoto, we have a lot to lose by failing to take it. Are we sure the Samurai is alone? If it is ATTACK, first with the Knights and finally with the army four´, they all have one HP but the odds are in our favour now. If we leave it we will not be able to take it next turn. Leonardos will help us too so do not raze.
2. I would have liked us to have finished off Spain before shipping almost every unit near Valencia to Scandinavia... Need to address this, Do not attack Scandy until we have taken Valencia. We dont want to send units back and forth do we???
3. Arabia? We gifted the cities without units nearby to retake them, why??? :( A single HM within two tiles of each city would have done the trick in one turn. We need to retake the western cities and Muscat. Then peace for Fez. WE DO NOT WANT THEM TO HAVE A NEW CORE IN THE WEST. BTW, the HMs on the mountain N Thebes need to go to a better position before attack, now they will only be able to attack across river unless there is still no defender there.
4. France. Kill them off!
5. Egypt. Since our rep is wasted now we can as well skip thinking about waiting for peace agreements to expire. Try to have some units in position as soon as possible and DoW when all their cities can be taken in two turns at the most, landing on the island will take a turn before being able to attack.
6. What on earth are you doing around Memphis/Jaipur? Clearing jungle/irrigating and mining???????????????????????? And Memphis is building a Temple? Why do we want a temple there? And worker action, NOTHING BUT ROADMAKING IN NONPRODUCTIVE AREAS. We only use workers for things that bring us closer to victory. A road running through the mountains all the way to the southern tip will help us, clearing and developing terrain will only slow us down. PLEASE STOP THIS WASTE OF WORKER ACTIONS!!!!!!!
7. Since our rep is wasted now we can as well skip thinking about waiting for peace agreements to expire.

In hindsight, it was a mistake to break peace, but I got irrational.
I like getting irrational from time to time, but I did not intend to ruin anything for the team.
I can only say: Stop being irrational on a SGOTM. It is not fun for the rest of the team when one player does things that ruin/risk ruin the game. We invest a lot of time and effort into this game. You are not only damaging your own game... And in this case it was obviously not only a broken peace but a ROP rape. So that card is now out of the deck for us!!!! That is bad and will cost a few turns at the very least!!!!!

Well, honestly, I have messed some things up.

The reputatuon one was bad, hands down.

@smackster:How could France ask me to leave if we HAD a ROP? So I guess I didnt break any ROP with them?

On the other hand, regarding the other issues, I asked for clear instructions since this was complex, I got some major points/advice that I tried to work out.

Too bad I cant keep track of every thought here.
There was quite a bit back and forth on what to do, so in the end I tried to follow the last instructions that smackster gave me.

@wotan:
As for gifted cities to arabia: I read that after declaring war I should wait until we could talk (which was about 4/5 turns), and I tried getting what we had of units in postition for the retake when we were sure to get Fez.

Kyoto: I know its close, but I got some bad rolls. Had one army and 8 or nine knights before attack.

Spain: I was told to focus on Japan, getting Fez and shipping over to Scandy.

France: Was in the process of taking them out.

Worker actions: the workers were clearing and roading near the eastern tip of india when I took over. So, from what I figured, that was the deal around there, to get some better tiles.
Other areas I tried to connect the cities through the mountains like had been started.

Temple in Mempis, sorry about that. Also for the workers around there. I didnt think through why there were piles of workers around there.

I propose that you guys take over, you are better off without me.


JJ

@smackster:How could France ask me to leave if we HAD a ROP? So I guess I didnt break any ROP with them?
The problem is that if you have units within the country's borders when DoW the AI regard that as a ROP rape. You have to have all units outside borders before DoW! So when the IBT dialogue asked you to leave/DoW, using the DoW option automatically makes it a ROP rape.
If you did not know this, too bad. But now you know so will hopefully not do it again... ;)

On the other hand, regarding the other issues, I asked for clear instructions since this was complex, I got some major points/advice that I tried to work out.
I do not believe you have wandered that far from what we discussed. A few things, but minor stuff really. Nothing we cannot fix.


As for gifted cities to arabia: I read that after declaring war I should wait until we could talk (which was about 4/5 turns), and I tried getting what we had of units in postition for the retake when we were sure to get Fez.
I do not have the game active right now but what I remember was that I was a bit surprised you did not have HMs in position for all "retakes" when Arabia was ready to start talking peace with us.

Kyoto: I know its close, but I got some bad rolls. Had one army and 8 or nine knights before attack.
Keep going at it. You have a few 1hp units there. We might as well risk losing them since the opportunity to take Kyoto will disappear fdr several turns if we fail now.

Spain: I was told to focus on Japan, getting Fez and shipping over to Scandy..
Taking out Spain in the process must have been "hidden" within all the other stuff. They only have two cities left, I sent 2 Knights to the central island and built another Galley there to be able to ship more units if needed. And a few of the units waiting for passage to Scandinavia would have been able to move north and take out the last city.

Worker actions: the workers were clearing and roading near the eastern tip of india when I took over. So, from what I figured, that was the deal around there, to get some better tiles. .
Then the problem started during Smacksters turns... Well, well... :) We had this problem during our first game together SGOTM3, where someone on the team had a real affection for developing max corruption cities...

I propose that you guys take over, you are better off without me..
Don't quit on us now. You are doing just fine. The ROP rape was a low point but if you did not know the mechanics of the game we cannot really hang you too high. Just high enough so your toes reach the ground. ;)

Well, honestly, I have messed some things up.

@smackster:How could France ask me to leave if we HAD a ROP? So I guess I didnt break any ROP with them?

You don't need a ROP to break ROP. Be in their land, declare war, ROP reputation broken


On the other hand, regarding the other issues, I asked for clear instructions since this was complex, I got some major points/advice that I tried to work out.

Too bad I cant keep track of every thought here.
There was quite a bit back and forth on what to do, so in the end I tried to follow the last instructions that smackster gave me.
None of us are perfect, we all get criticised on this team when we screw up. These were a very complex set of turns, but sometimes you just have to play it and make the mistakes. Don't fall on your sword, its just a game.


@wotan:
As for gifted cities to arabia: I read that after declaring war I should wait until we could talk (which was about 4/5 turns), and I tried getting what we had of units in postition for the retake when we were sure to get Fez.

There were three horses there and two should have been taken from Washington/New York, one horse to take back each city. Its hard to give any more detailed advice than there already is. You have to play what makes sense.


Spain: I was told to focus on Japan, getting Fez and shipping over to Scandy.

I don't see the problem here, we have time to get Spain, and there should be more horses coming from the core.


Worker actions: the workers were clearing and roading near the eastern tip of india when I took over. So, from what I figured, that was the deal around there, to get some better tiles.
Other areas I tried to connect the cities through the mountains like had been started.

Temple in Mempis, sorry about that. Also for the workers around there. I didnt think through why there were piles of workers around there.

I propose that you guys take over, you are better off without me.
JJ
Its easy to criticise use of workers, don't take it personally, I often have less than optimal use of them, and dman and Wotan always ding me for it.

We would be better off if the best player played this solo, but the point of the SG is that we play as a team, and that is all that counts.

Don't take any criticism personally, its not like we know each other. Just understand the mistakes and try to learn from it. We all have been and continue to go through that.

Then the problem started during Smacksters turns... Well, well... :) We had this problem during our first game together SGOTM3, where someone on the team had a real affection for developing max corruption cities...

There we go again, and I'm always polite about Wotan's errors :)

I don't understand this without looking at the map, but are you sure those cities are max corruption, they are not that far from the FP?

There we go again, and I'm always polite about Wotan's errors :)

I don't understand this without looking at the map, but are you sure those cities are max corruption, they are not that far from the FP?
Sorry, I made that comment as a joke... I just had a SGOTM3 flashback when I wrote the comments on worker useage... I know I did a lot of suboptimum worker action in the past myself, I learnt a lot from Kuningas on that team in SGOTM2.

The question we need to ask before doing something in the game is simply: Will this bring us to victory faster than if I do not do it.

We would be better off if the best player played this solo, but the point of the SG is that we play as a team, and that is all that counts.
I am not sure about that. The fact that we only play 10 turns makes you focus better during your turns. The discussions between players develop everyones game and help us catch weaknesses and find possibilities.

Someone have said that SGOTMs make players play at one level higher than they are capable of in solo games. I agree with this opinion, even if I do not have anything to substantiate my claim by.

I propose that you guys take over, you are better off without me.




Nope, we can't do that... FYI, we all getting grilled by each other all the time. If you think you are having hard time, look at the SGOTM3 thread and all the hit i was under.
If somebody messes things up a little or a lot we sure are not going to be shy to tell about it, but that doesn't mean anyone here has something againts you.
So just stay with the team and help us to pull this victory.

Sorry, I made that comment as a joke... I just had a SGOTM3 flashback when I wrote the comments on worker useage... I know I did a lot of suboptimum worker action in the past myself, I learnt a lot from Kuningas on that team in SGOTM2.

The question we need to ask before doing something in the game is simply: Will this bring us to victory faster than if I do not do it.
I know you were joking. But I looked and those workers are working in our productive core. The ones near the Indian tip, or where they used to be?

I am not sure about that. The fact that we only play 10 turns makes you focus better during your turns. The discussions between players develop everyones game and help us catch weaknesses and find possibilities.

Someone have said that SGOTMs make players play at one level higher than they are capable of in solo games. I agree with this opinion, even if I do not have anything to substantiate my claim by.
No you are right, we are better as a team. I thought that as I drove home, if I played this solo, I would have made many, many more mistakes and would probably still be stuck on that island in the middle.

Views on the save

1) Most important task Arabia
I say getting Fez is No.1 priority, but I want to see if that settler will settle.
So wait one turn for peace. But no more. So take what you can this turn, attack their capital and take whatever other cities you can.
Next turn, if the settler has formed a city, see if we can get Fez and that in peace. If not then keep taking cities until we can get them both. Just be careful not to send the palace to Fez.

As there are many tasks do all the arab moves first each turn.

2) Second most important task Japan,
Kyoto, go for broke, take it this turn, attack this turn before you hit end turn, there are 4 one HP units, against maybe 1 one HP Samurai. Its a risk, but I'd take it.

We should consider abandoning Tokyo, and Osako, both big flips chance (22%/14%), so one of them is sure to flip in the next 3-4 turns, and they are not worth the hassle. Just my opinion. Actually wait and see if you can get Kyoto.

3) Scandy, I think we should send the 2 horses, and 2 knights in the galley over there, and attack Scandy with all those troops. Drop another horse in the army so it has more HP, does not really effect the army attack strength in PTW. That group should do as much damage as they can

Right now we don't have enough troops going down to byblos, to help in the attack, so we need to renew focus on sending troops down there. I think most of the cities on the peninsula can be taken in peace treaties. For instance the 2 Japanese cities can be taken now however, clearly Nagasaki is our priority.

4) Egypt, the Knights in the galley outside Avaris, should be dropped off and destroy Avaris. Put them both back on the galley and send them to Hiearaconopolis.

5) We need to start building more galleys as there are a lot of islands that the AI can go to, near the end of the game it may be tough to find all their settlers in galleys.

If you think you are having hard time, look at the SGOTM3 thread and all the hit i was under.

I can't remember the last time I gave you any flak? :D You play a solid game these days, Dman!

All,

ROP; sorry, but I didnt know that a declaring would make it impossible to get a ROP. I though one had to break an ROP for that. We lots of troops around paris when it flipped, and the borders expanded. That meant I still had quite a few troops inside their borders at the end of the turn.

Arabia: I guess we shouldve had troops ready to retake all the cities when they where supposed to talk to us after 4-5 turns. Thing is, when not familiar with the concept of what is to be done, in such a complex setting, I just try to follow instructions.

The criticisms are ok, I deserve that, thats what I learn from.
Its just that I cant keep up with the game here. So, as for continuing to play, I must say that I have felt playing this more a burden than fun. That has nothing to do with you and is of course not your fault. The only link I see between the criticisms I got and my decision not to play anymore is that I was actually not enjoying myself when I played last night. The fact that I felt it a burden could have contributed to my wrongdoings. This has actually made me dislike CIV a little bit too.

So, this is also based on the fact that I cannot find time in RL to plug in the amount of time needed to follow this game in the tempo that is expected from you guys. Last night when playing the last 5 turns I spend like 4 hours preparing and doing that. (Looking at it that way, I defo shouldve done better..hehe.)
And then, after spending hours doing things that are supposed to be fun, feeling beat, feeling it was a burden, starting to dislike civ - that isnt too cool.

I am really sorry that I let you guys down in the game, and also jumping ship here, leaving the team. But I got to do this for fun, and if it isnt fun anymore, then I must spend my sparetime otherwise.

You have been great to me and I have learnt a lot - thanks.

JJ

I can't remember the last time I gave you any flak? :D You play a solid game these days, Dman!

Yeah, other than setting up Wash and Phily on fire and revolt my last turn set :) (not that you mentioned anything, but i doubt it was a good play from me.


@JJ: I am really sorry to hear what you've said..... I understand your feelings and I respect your decision, but I feel sorry you are leaving without giving it a fight.

All,
The criticisms are ok, I deserve that, thats what I learn from.
Its just that I cant keep up with the game here. So, as for continuing to play, I must say that I have felt playing this more a burden than fun. That has nothing to do with you and is of course not your fault. The only link I see between the criticisms I got and my decision not to play anymore is that I was actually not enjoying myself when I played last night. The fact that I felt it a burden could have contributed to my wrongdoings. This has actually made me dislike CIV a little bit too.

So, this is also based on the fact that I cannot find time in RL to plug in the amount of time needed to follow this game in the tempo that is expected from you guys. Last night when playing the last 5 turns I spend like 4 hours preparing and doing that. (Looking at it that way, I defo shouldve done better..hehe.)
And then, after spending hours doing things that are supposed to be fun, feeling beat, feeling it was a burden, starting to dislike civ - that isnt too cool.

I am really sorry that I let you guys down in the game, and also jumping ship here, leaving the team. But I got to do this for fun, and if it isnt fun anymore, then I must spend my sparetime otherwise.

You have been great to me and I have learnt a lot - thanks.
For me its those complex difficult turns that make it fun, and I agree it does take a long time to play, but you did get it at a really difficult time, maybe you would not get a harder set of turns.

You should rethink leaving, as you over time you'll find it easier. For now you can just play 5 turns each time, or just assign an amount of time to play and then play until the time is up and then post. You don't have to do 10 turns.

For now stop either way, and dman should take it.

smackster

:sad:

but anyways I got it and can play tonight

It is Dec. 16 and i remember Tarkeel said he will become available after this date.... So he might join the team again.

Play 5, 10, or even 15 depending on time.

Would our captain volunteer to write 1st spoiler? :mischief:

ROP; sorry, but I didnt know that a declaring would make it impossible to get a ROP. I though one had to break an ROP for that. We lots of troops around paris when it flipped, and the borders expanded. That meant I still had quite a few troops inside their borders at the end of the turn.
Just as I guessed. I did know this myself a year ago...

Arabia: I guess we shouldve had troops ready to retake all the cities when they where supposed to talk to us after 4-5 turns. Thing is, when not familiar with the concept of what is to be done, in such a complex setting, I just try to follow instructions.
Minor thing really...

And then, after spending hours doing things that are supposed to be fun, feeling beat, feeling it was a burden, starting to dislike civ - that isnt too cool.

I am really sorry that I let you guys down in the game, and also jumping ship here, leaving the team. But I got to do this for fun, and if it isnt fun anymore, then I must spend my sparetime otherwise.

You have been great to me and I have learnt a lot - thanks.

JJ
You probably had the most difficult turn set yet in this game. We are at the point where the "camel's back" is about to break. It is the point in the game where turns are lost or gained in the race towards victory. It is normally after these turns that I lose interest in GOTMs and just rush them to the end wo any real MMing and thought. SGOTMs OTOH have the added aspect of a team to keep it interesting all the way to the finish line.

Stay on the team, keep up with what happens and see how things look next time you are up. It will probably be your last turnset on this game anyway. We should have it wrapped in 40-50 turns max...

Would our captain volunteer to write 1st spoiler? :mischief:
Yea here it is, we settled SE, researched WC, and MM, then built galleys, found india, built horses and took their cities, then entered the MA. Oh we built a wonder or two.

Only joking, yes I'll write it.

smackster

For now you can just play 5 turns each time, or just assign an amount of time to play and then play until the time is up and then post. You don't have to do 10 turns.


This is correct in fact. If you get fed up, distracted, called away on business, whatever - you can just post what you have done.

I would encourage you to stick at it. You are very fortunate to be placed on such a strong team and you will become a better player overnight (almost). The better you become, the more you will enjoy it. The team is competitive, and you will have to face the music from time to time. But in next to no time it can be you who is picking holes in your team mates game.

I was rubbish until I started playing SG's - and now I'm only nearly rubbish. ;) It's the reason I run the games.

I need to crop some of these pictures that appear to large right now (now cropped, original edited). But here is a draft.

Team Smackster SGOTM5 going for gold
dmanahko, Wotan, smackster, Tarkeel, MjM, tomasjj

In the start location we saw three mountains and we have three units. Now, its tempting to send one unit to each mountain to determine the best location, but we decided that Mad-Bax is unlikely to make the first move based on luck, so that each location would be largely similar.
The instructions were, move the scout to any one mountain, if you even see a hint of green then follow it with the rest of the crew. We moved SE, saw enough green and settled down there.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM54000BCST.jpg

Plan was to jump the palace ASAP, so would not develop too much in Moscow. No thoughts about leaving the palace there and building the FP for rank corruption usage, that may just take too long to setup.

We didn't take long before we settled and began to explore. We made a decision early that we would find somebody close by so started researching WC, but soon found its an island and should have gone Writing->MM.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm53050BCST_copy.jpg

We built another scout, warrior, then Temple. Decided there was no point building the barracks until we were ready to start building the military.
We popped some workers and warriors, and the precious wheel that showed we had horses. We disbanded one popped warrior when unit support kicked in, and dropped some workers in Moscow.

After the temple we started on Collossus, although when it was built in 1750BC it didn't give us much being Despot.

In 1500BC we got MM, and switched Moscow to our galley pre-build, plan was to pump a few galleys and find out whats out there.
We now started research on HBR, and had decided that we would build horses all the way, and didn't need IW.

In 1325BC our first galley made a quick suicide jaunt and we met most of the world. We took all their gold, techs and maps, but they were fairly backward. We could also see that there were more islands north.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM51250BCSMM_copy.jpg

When our first galley went north, we found that there was a good route to India, and made them our first target. We also liked the land in Mecca, so the plan was invade India, jump palace, build FP in Delhi, invade Arabia, jump palace to Mecca.
We were pleased at the route to India, as we didn't need the Lighthouse. We now started to mass build horses and send them north, a few galleys went round the coast to the east and prepared for invasion.

We set the target at 6 horses, didn't really think the Regent AI would hold us back.

550BC we had the horses in place and attacked Bombay, with some very unlucky RNG is held first turn, but was soon taken, and India put up very little resistance to the steady flow of horses that was coming.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Smacksterindy.JPG

During the war our eyes were turning to barb huts at home, but all military was being sent north, things started to look dicey as barbs were coming, and the MA were approaching, I really don't want to be around in Moscow when the revolts come

By 150BC we had India begging for peace they would give us 4 cities for the peace. At that same time Monarchy was affordable and I wanted to get that and revolt before we got too many cities. Republic was not available and we were planning at least two palace jumps so Monarchy seemed overall a better option for us.
So we got Monarchy and a 4 turn anarchy, then took 4 Indian cities and peace.

Next turn it happened, somebody researched Currency and the uprisings happened.
We traded for it so that we could get our first MA tech and put our heads down towards Chivalry.

There were about 3 huts on our island, and we had a warrior and an archer for defence.
Our targetted jump city (Calcutta) was ours and we had peace with India.

Would the barbs come, would we get out in time. You'll have to find out, next time, in the SGOTM5 spoiler thread.

smackster