Certainly attack the regular pikeman in Delhi. We have already killed 3 or 4 pikes so it should be the last.

Overall I think we are attacking without adequate superiority. We should reduce research for cash to rush units. We don't need MT if we don't have saltpeter or knights to upgrade! Our wars are started too soon with too little force. The result is losses we can't afford and only minor gains. I think we should go for peace with India ASAP and PROPERLY BUILD UP our forces. I had bad RNG luck vrs India and so did Alex. We need to build a force capable of taking bad RNG results before we attack.

We should go for a force of 10 knights plus the army before we start the next war on the mainland. Don't build any more axemen.

I want to see at least 8 workers transferred to our island. Cuidad de Luna needs a mountain mined and a forest roaded. Bengal needs the grass lands cleared, irrigated and roaded forests planted on the tundra. Don't waste time planting and then chopping and then replanting the forests. The other cities need a lot of work as well. The planting and cutting of forests is only economical in corrupt towns.

Ivan, in defense of K-A, your instructions were not clear. You need to be specific and precise. It takes a lot of effort to communicate in what is a second language for both of you. Do not assume anything.

1 Viking galley is outside DeLuna, if I remember correctly: we should move the pikeman inside the city, just in case(Vikings have amphibious units, right?)

Here's how it went in my turns ( I know that I'm not the perfect player in the world):
- I kept 2 Axemen and a catapult outside NY(after moving them inside for 1 turn to terminate the resistance) to be safe from a flip, and they also controled a possible attack from Calcutta(war elephants could be coming on my way).
I didn't knew how many units/war elephants India had - I couldn't possibly knew.

- outside Madras I had Elite* Axeman Ivan fortified, so I was safe from a flip, and I also blocked a charge from India with a war elephant, as Madras could be captured IBT by the 2-tile move from an elephant, BUT from ONLY 1 tile: the tile I had fortified Ivan*(also, the pikeman from Lahore could help defend if needed).
Indeed, the REGULAR elephant went charging at Ivan*(aiming for Madras) and retreated: if Ivan* wasn't fortified at that tile, Madras would have been captured.

Now, the regular war elephant, with 1/2 hp left, retreated inside the borders of Delhi. My, possibly fatal tactical mistake, was that AFTER I attacked again with the Army and won, I didn't used the movement left to go at the grassland tile of Bangalore, but fortified the Army, thinking that there was no chance in hell that the regular war elephant would attack the FORTIFIED spear in Bangalore(I thought it'd be a suicide from the elephant) and that he would win and capture Bangalore.
I never saw that before, BUT, as I understood afterwards, the AI KNEW that it was going to win the battle even with 1hp, and it wasn't a suicide mission at all!

Why I consider the previous a fatal mistake? Because IF the 1/2hp elephant had moved inside Delhi to heal, the Army wouldn't have to recapture Bangalore, but, instead, he would have attacked Delhi again(the pikeman that we currently see in Delhi fortified): I don't know how many pikemen, currently, have been left in Delhi, but if the Army had killed the pikeman(not IF, he would have killed him), probably an Axeman would have killed the 1/2hp elephant and capture Delhi(if there's nothing more there! - only that elephant attacked towards Madras, but I couldn't possibly know it, before the war, how many units India would throw at us, as it had 20 turns to build units while in peace).
Also, Ivan's drawing-map showed that the Army had to retreat to Bangalore when possible(I had moved the Army before I started paying my 4th turn in the grassland at Bangalore, so the Army would retreat again in Bangalore after it's 2nd attack).

Anyway, I don't know what to say: I was afraid to leave Madras and NY completely undefended while in war, but I should have done that, as that were the orders from Ivan's plan, and he's a far better tactician than me.
Also, 2 times inside my turns, a city flipped.
I feel that I'm doing more damage to the Team, than good :( .

1) Certainly attack the regular pikeman in Delhi. We have already killed 3 or 4 pikes so it should be the last.

2) Overall I think we are attacking without adequate superiority. We should reduce research for cash to rush units. We don't need MT if we don't have saltpeter or knights to upgrade! Our wars are started too soon with too little force. The result is losses we can't afford and only minor gains. I think we should go for peace with India ASAP and PROPERLY BUILD UP our forces. I had bad RNG luck vrs India and so did Alex. We need to build a force capable of taking bad RNG results before we attack.

3) We should go for a force of 10 knights plus the army before we start the next war on the mainland. Don't build any more axemen.

4) I want to see at least 8 workers transferred to our island. Cuidad de Luna needs a mountain mined and a forest roaded. Bengal needs the grass lands cleared, irrigated and roaded forests planted on the tundra. Don't waste time planting and then chopping and then replanting the forests. The other cities need a lot of work as well. The planting and cutting of forests is only economical in corrupt towns.

5) Ivan, in defense of K-A, your instructions were not clear. You need to be specific and precise. It takes a lot of effort to communicate in what is a second language for both of you. Do not assume anything.
1) Yes, 3/4 Axe has good chance vs Pick.
2) I think time was right. With Army and 4(5) axe we could take Delhi and Bombay. Just let Army heal at Bangalore. We'll get MT in 20 turns and I think this is reasonable time to get saltpeter. With proper tactics we could lose 1-2 axe per City. (My avarege rate). It will be lot harder (almost impossible), to break defence when India hook saltpeter and will have musketmans. I also recon for knight per 3 turn [Is this instruction clear?], and dynamical reinforsment is enough (IMHO).
3) Time factor is All in Civ and Chess. This is Regent level, an AI stupid. Madras and Bangalore at flip risk so close to Deli. Look at score plot, other teams already...
4) I think mounain mining is vest of time (low food). Workers can work, while there. But I agree we may trasfer them on return way (after troops Ship chain). Madras, I thought "economically corrupt." May be you have better intuition of optimal workerload.
5) I only ask. Thanks for straight comment. K-A knows me well and will not take it as offence, we both know.
I think we should stay at war until saltpeter hooked.

Sorry Ivan. I played before I read your post. In short, no Delhi. Delhi for sure in 11 turns. I thought we need to build up more. :blush:

Turn log to come... :(

IT: Moscow builds Knight. Bengal builds Granary.

740AD: Conclude that we are too weak to keep attacking. Sign peace with India. Get Hyderabad, 13 gold, WM, and a slave. We don’t need a horse colony anymore because Hyderabad is now ours.

750AD: Selling world maps… chops complete near

IT: Chemistry comes in, set to Metallurgy at minimum.

760AD: Not much.

770AD: Rush courthouse at Madras for 160 gold.

IT: Moscow completes Knight. Madras completes courthouse, starts Forbidden Palace. Lahore completes courthouse, starts barracks.

780AD: Mohacs (Keltoi) completes Sun Tzu’s AOW. FP due in 34 turns. Scientist in New York saves us 16 gold.

IT: Aztecs and Kelts sign an alliance against us. Ciudad finishes Barracks, start Knight.

790AD: Chemistry to the French gets us Astronomy, 120 gold, and 34gpt. Hurry Library in NY for 64 gold.

IT: NY finishes it’s library. Bengal finishes barracks, starts knight.

800AD: Rush harbour in Zaragoza for 212 gold. Bust a barb camp.

IT: Zaragoza finishes harbour, starts barracks.

810AD: Cancel the alliances we have with England. For some reason, Keltoi and Japan are not willing to sign peace for free anymore? :confused: Sign peace with Keltoi for 1 gold. :crazyeye: Hurry harbour in Hyderabad for 292 gold.

IT: Japanese land an archer. Hyderabad finishes harbour, starts library. Diriyah (Arab) finishes Copernicus’ Observatory.

820AD: Kill the Japanese archer with a knight. No health lost. Hurry barbour in Bangalore for about 250 gold.

IT: Bangalore finishes Harbour, starts barracks. The Japanese land an archer on the wrong side of the Cuidad strait. :rolleyes:

830AD: Nothing much...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Ivan_830AD.jpg

And the save for your convenience... (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Ivan_SG005_AD0830_01.SAV)

Trading WM at pre-turn, will get us 12g.

Hyderabad is undefended and we should transport a pikeman.

I'd move the units of Bangalore(at least, the ARMY) outside the city on the grassland and start a library(rush it after a while) - I wouldn't leave many units inside the cities on the other island, but fortify them in tiles that other civs can capture the cities within 1 turn.

Note: Now that we have plenty of money, we should use it in our favor, so we should rush the pikeman after the 1st turn(before the 2nd turn), and again change the built to knight, so we have a knight out of Moscow in 3 turns, as Ivan said.
We should rush AS MANY UNITS AS WE CAN(from all the cities - use the extra cash reasonable) WHILE we're in peace with India and before making a rush to capture all of India.

Ok, I see.
AderanE may disagree, but I recomend him to attack Americans instead.
It is bad for Army to stay without war. I'd attack when peace treaty expire.
(Or turn after) Increase Scinse. We still wil have positive gpt if trade fur.
Use my trick to build knight faster (rush Pickman now and swich to knight).
Upgrade Galleys.
@Conehead: why you do not participate in discussions?

btw: If we want DeLuna to keep growing until 10-11pop(also work the mountain) and have all it's citizens to work tiles and be more happy(more gold), it needs a marketplace.

Bengal should have irrigate it's grassland(unless it has a BG under the grass forest), so it works the 2 tundra forests, and also plant 1-2 more foresta in the tundra (1 tundra tile has river nearby).

New York could change to temple, because it needs more happyness, so close to America.

Also, we need to transfer the 3 Elite knights in our island to the other: we can replace them with veteran knights, and also go for Elite fishing against barbs - maybe we'll get lucky and have another GL in the near future, so we form a Cossack Army.

I'd also suggest to have 1 pikeman for each city on our island, as these are core cities and are still been improved - we can't afford to lose them.

Pikemen are not good for avoiding pillaging. I suggest one knight for every two cities.

I guess I was so fixated on India that I forgot that war with America (or even Spain! Do we dare? :eek:) was possible.

The flip chance of New York, as I understand it, is Zero.

If we upgrade the galleys, should we unload the knight? I never tried upgrading a ship with a unit loaded inside.

If we're going for war with America, at least we should rush as many knights as we can and transfer them(we may delay war for a few turns to make big damage). Also, transfer the 3 Elite knights in our island, and maybe pillage the Iron mountain with the Army, or have the Army near SF to pillage the saltpeter - up to you, fo course.

Sorry I been busy with school.

America seems like the next logical target. Do we know if they have gunpowder because if they do, we can expect to take heavy loses. If they do, we should try to take out the saltpeter as fast as possible. How about we sign a ROP with India and strike at Boston (saltpeter city, right?) and then sweep toward Washington. Whatever the plan is we have to gain saltpeter before our Knights become outclassed. I agree with New York getting a temple. Maybe we can flip Atlanta back.

@King Alex- I am certain the knight will be fine if we upgrade the galley.

America knew gunpowder before my turns. That's why I think we should rush knights like crazy for a few turns, and transfer them. The RoP with India doesn't sound bad at all to strike Boston. Also we should consider of pillaging with the Army/other knights: Iron and saltpeter, so they can't make knights or Axemen or musketmen.

Tomoyo wrote:
"Hurry harbour in Hyderabad for 292 gold.
Rush harbour in Zaragoza for 212 gold."
"IT: Chemistry comes in, set to Metallurgy at minimum."
I think we could use our gold better then Harbors.
For example library in Hovt and SF.
Set research at max or close. I think we may get MT saltpeter in 20 turns.
I'd like to finish game in 100-120 turns, only this rate will give us chanses to win competition IMHO.
Who would like to write spoiler?
I think AdreanE, his writing is the best in our team.

1)America seems like the next logical target. Do we know if they have gunpowder because if they do, we can expect to take heavy loses. If they do, we should try to take out the saltpeter as fast as possible.
2)How about we sign a ROP with India and strike at Boston (saltpeter city, right?) and then sweep toward Washington. Whatever the plan is we have to gain saltpeter before our Knights become outclassed.
3)I agree with New York getting a temple. Maybe we can flip Atlanta back.

@King Alex- I am certain the knight will be fine if we upgrade the galley.
1) America got GP after our war. It is Regent anf they will not build musketsman that soon.
2) We have RoP with America and we can send Army and knight to near boston, then Cansel RoP and strike. RoP reputation will be hit, but trade rep will be OK in this case. We also may rush Library in SF and attack from there without RoP rep hit. (my plan when I recomended to demand SF)
3) NY may flip and we loose our Temple then. I think better to take Atlanta by forse.
In small production Cities we may rush temple at second turn and swich to knights.

I'll play later today or tommorrow. Lots of time to discuss.

Adrian

" Lots of time to discuss.

Adrian"
Indeed. I think our goal is get MT as soon as possible say 18-20 turns and saltpeter at the same time. we can do it in 4 ways: what you prefer?
1) Strike Washington-Boston.
2) transfer troops to S-F, strike Boston and then washington,
3) Build Colony at "Indian" saltpeter.
4) Strike Indians after 11 turns and capture Indians saltpeter?
In general:
What do you think about harbor rushes? Is it sensible?
I think that at conquest mode army should not stay and we must be at war continuesly.
2-3 turns break is OK, but not more.

OK I've played.

I looked at our situation and I believe we were too weak to win any wars. So I built and prepared for a successful conquest of America.

preturn
- speed up knight in Moscow (interim rush of Pikeman)
- get about 75G trading WM
- sell furs to France for 133G and 8GPT
- get embassy with India (Delhi is defended by 2pikes, sword, spear, settler and building a settler), sign ROP with India
- rush pike in hyderbad, rush barracks in New York
- switch Bengal to pikeman

IBT Zulu demands Education, I say no and they back down, Kelts and England sign peace, Japan builds Leo's

840AD - lose elite knight to Japanese Archer !!!! ARGH!!!, trade WMs, rush barracks in Zargosa

IBT - Japan and England sign peace

850AD - Rush pike in New York
IBT France demands TM, 19G - I refuse and they back down

860AD - trade WMs
870AD - reposition units
880AD sell furs to Vikings for 96G, WM, rush market in Cuidad de Luna

890AD - move and rush units
900AD - trade WMs, Navigation and Music Theory are available
IBT Aztecs ask for Peace for free - I accept

910AD trade Wms - banking is now available, rush market in Bengal

920AD, 930Ad trade Wms, move, rush units, upgrade galleys to caravels

940AD eliminate japanese longbow near Zargosa

950AD trade WMs


We have 2 main battlegroups poised to strike the Americans. The army and 4 knights is in Indian territory near Seattle. That should be enough to take Boston.

2 pikes, 5 axemen, 3 cats, 1 knight are by New York.

3 knights are on a caravel heading to Lahore

There is enough cash to rush a courthouse in either bengal or Cuidad deLuna.

We should reduce America to a single city, demand all their techs and then finish off India and Spain.

The FP is due in 9 turns in Madras. I transferred 4 workers to the Hyderbad island to occupy and landing sites. That will protect the island against everyone but the Vikings.

I think we can start researching again.

Zaragoza needs to work the game in tundra to grow more.
I'd irrigate the mined grassland in Bengal and plant more forests for the city to work - we don't need to work the mountain(no food).

Should we take the Peace Treaty with Japan? It already has settled on our island and probably will send samurais soon against us.

I'd continue to rush units and transfer them to the other island; we need to reinforce our units while in war and while the units in the other island heal - we need to strike quickly and destructively.

The Army and the 4 knights should capture SF, so America can't built musketmen, and the units of NY should go on the Iron mountain, pillage it and attack from there, so America can't build knights/Axemen.

I still insist on rushing units when possible, so we have new reinforcements coming soon on the other continent/island.

btw: it'd be good to wait 1-2 turns so our 3 knights in the caravel go to help the Axemen of NY; attack all at the same turn, of course.

I have posted our spoiler in the spoiler thread.

Adrian

We can make peace with Japan for 80G. That might be worth doing.

There is a better square to launch the attack on Boston. In the preturn move the knights to s-s of Boston using our ROP with America. This is a jungle square in Indian territory. You can take Boston on the first turn. That will stop America from Upgrading its pikes.

Watch for any war unhappiness. Our cities are on the edge of rioting at our current lux.

"IBT France demands TM, 19G - I refuse and they back down"
it was very risky, they pay 36 gpt and we could loose it... fortunately we are OK.
"There is a better square to launch the attack on Boston. In the preturn move the knights to s-s of Boston using our ROP with America. This is a jungle square in Indian territory. You can take Boston on the first turn. That will stop America from Upgrading its pikes."
Excelent observation! Conehead, please.
Don't forget to cansel RoP at first turn and strike boston and capture Washingtonn at 2 turn!.
Minor thing: Zaragossa needs mkmg to Game. Deluna and Bengal do not need corhouses. It will save only 1 gpt. I think plain knight will be better.
I don' t like that we lose technological lidership. We may progress faster with metalurgy, IMHO.
But Conehead will decide. It would be more effecient to make 40 turns gambit with more expensive tech, after we get Banking. I think Conehead, as team leader, should manage situation with Tech rate more firmly.

Ok, I will go with the plan to capture Boston and Washington. I will decide the research rate on whether we have the saltpeter secured or not. If a disaster happens, the rate will be at a minimum but if we are successful I will push ahead at max pace to get the Cossacks. Once I am able to look at the save, I will make my final decision.

I will attempt to play tonight but I have to visit my grandfather in the hospital, so depending on when I get back is when I will be able to play.

1)We should reduce America to a single city, demand all their techs and then finish off India and Spain.

2) The FP is due in 9 turns in Madras.

3)I transferred 4 workers to the Hyderbad island to occupy and landing sites. That will protect the island against everyone but the Vikings.

4) I think we can start researching again.

1) May be better to kill Americans completely, we do not need Banking that soon. We may use Americans workers to build in Cities. But we may do this procedure (demand tech) with Indians.
2) Thats why we have to strike Deli ASAP.
3) Good! AFAIK at this game Vikings have UU "galoglas" that not amphibious.
4)I think so... GA is our goal...

I placed 3 turns, I will finish the rest tomorrow.

Preturn (950AD)- Move Knight stack 2 S of Boston. Boston is defended by a pike. Change Deluna and Bengal to knights and MM Zaragoza. Sign Peace with Japan for 80 gold. Up lux to 20% to keep cities from Rioting. Move troops into position for next turn. Move pike from Bengal to block spanish settler pair by our iron colony.
IT-Indian and America settler pairs appear in our northern island territory. Moscow Knight->knight. Egypt, america and India are building Bach's.
Turn 1 (960AD)-Dial up America and cancel ROP. Declare war on America. Assult on Boston our first knight retreats against a pike. Second knight kills the pike and Boston is captured along with the saltpeter.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM5_Ivan_960AD.JPG

There are 3 resistors, put boston on starvation diet. Unload 3 knights in Lahore and move them to NewYork. Move southern attack group south of Washington. Kill America spear and knight protecting 2 settlers. Hire entertainers in NewYork and SanFransico. Rush knight in De Luna.
IT-Boston and San Fran starve. Japanese Sam appears. Hovd Library->harbor. De Luna Knight->knight.
Turn 2 (970AD)-Washington has a musket. Fire 2 catapults at Washington, both miss. Knight attacks Washington, knight dies, Musket now 2/3. Pike is now on top. Attack Pike, first knight retreats, second knight killed. Pike redlined, new pike on top. Elite axemen kills pike, no damage. Axemen dies attacking pike, pike redlined. Knight now on top. Kill knight. Axemen Ivan dies to musket, musket now vet 2/4. Axeman kills pike. Use Knight from NewYork to attack washington, kill pike. Wack another pike with Knight and Washington is captured, along with 2 settlers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM5_Ivan_970AD.JPG

Troops Movements. Rush knight in Bengal.
IT- Lose an axeman to a longbow. Bengal Knight->knight. Americans begin Bach's :rolleyes:.
Turn 3 (980AD)- Kill pike and spear and Chicago falls to us. No loses. 2 more Knights arrive in Lahore, send to New York. Pike back to Bengal. Movements
IT- Resistance in Washington Ends, Resistor quells in Boston.

I will finish the turns tommorrow as I am starting to get tired. Here is a save if you want to discuss anything.

Excelent play, Conehead! I never had doubt of your battlefield talants. Kill them all.
Kill settler that try to run away to Spain. You have knights at NY. I think we have to transfer workers to Core area. Bring workers and elite out from Boston. Our RoP with India will expire in four turns. Strike them without delay. FP will be so close to Deli, flip will be very harmefuul.
Think about troops at Core area. Knight in Moscow in 3 turns, please.

If we want to increase Science better to do it now.
Othervise profit will be negative.

Probably it is the time to get rid of reputation. (Take Banking, Navigation etc. from India and strike them).
For discussion our future plans:
Next target India, Spain, China.
In our SGOTM1 you had nice picture of burning Washington. Could you show this link again?

Note that America has a city (Houston, I think) in the desert by the Arabs. We will not be able to take Houston in the near future. We should clear our continent of Americans and then demand all their techs for peace. If we demand houston from the americans we will never hold it against the Arabs.

Also note that Egypt has a single tile city we will need to demand.

The reason the courthouse was important for Cuidad deLuna is: with the mined mountain it will have 12 shields and we are running at 30% corruption for 9 shields net. With a courthouse it will have 10 shields net. It is important to get to the 10's in shields production. It wasn't about gold. The mountain will have to be mined soon ( ideally as Cuidad grows to size 12).

Bengal is working the mountain. It would be better to work the freshly planted forest.

Note it is faster to build a road first then plant the forest.

@AdrianE
Houston is currently an Arabic city. Was it a flip or something else, I don't know. As I wrote before, it's better to destroy the Americans and join american workers to our city, and reduce the chances of a flip. 9 or 8 shields per city is also fine. 9*9=81=cav, or 8*10=cav. Maybe you are right in the long term, but 2 knights let us capture our core faster and will be more efficient than courthouses.
What do you think of breaking our reputation? Maybe this is the time, or should we wait until somebody discovers metallurgy? Our long term plan? I think we should strike Spain and India, and afterwards China.
Ivan.

You mean this picture?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/burning_of_washington.jpg

Finishing turns now.

Yes, that's the one. Waiting for your finish.

Ok, America wants to surrender, they only have Miami left and they offer Navigation and Banking for peace. I can take the deal and then break the treaty and kill them or I can just kill the Americans without breaking a peace treaty. I need an answer. I also have no concerns about keeping up in research as this is only regent and our second core will be up and running soon. So we will be able to afford a broken rep.

EDIT: I decided to do it.

EDIT: I decided to do it.

Wait! don't get rid of Reputation so cheap! Get Metalurgy or Physics first!

Houston must have flipped to the Arabs recently.

I wouldn't throw away our reputation yet.

American workers should be set to reassigning tiles for Washington and Philadelphia. We need mines not irrigation. All the desert squares need to be mined. That is the only way those cities will be productive.

Punjab will make a nice addition to our empire. It will be able to work the game forest south of Bengal and be reasonably productive.

Long term I think we need to incorporate India and Spain into our empire. The knights we have need to go counter clockwise and clear out India, Spain, Egypt and that long mountainous chain. At some point they get upgraded to cossacks. Then they hop over and hit the Vikings, Chinese, zulu etc.
Then one army group of Cossacks goes clockwise around the world attacking the Arabs, French, celts etc. I think we finish up in England. This army goup will need 20 cossacks plus regular reinforcement. We will need to expand our navy. We will need 15 caravels/galleons to move the troops and keep the reinforcements coming.

Vikings, Arabs and France are likely to be our toughest opponents. When we invade we will need massive firepower (20 to 30 cossacks each)

I also think we will need to keep researching until tanks.

"Long term I think we need to incorporate India and Spain into our empire."
I hope it will be "short term". Othervise we'll loose. (I mean not winners).

"I also think we will need to keep researching until tanks."
Intersting point. I thought: "" do we need "replacable parts"" or better to spend money for Cossacs?
"Egypt and that long mountainous chain." I thought that China easear target. 1 movement tile will help. also problem with Valensia.

Turn 4 (990 AD)- Load 2 more knights and send them north. Kill American settler pair. Rush library in Washington. Kill Longbow. Shuffle troops to prepare for an assult of Phildelphia next turn. Research to 50% Metalurgy in 13.
IT-Washington Library->barracks. Moscow Knight->knight.
Turn 5 (1000 AD)- Onward to Philadelphia, wack a pike and 2 spears and capture the city. No loses.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM5_Ivan_1000AD.JPG

Move troops to strike Miami next turn. Shuffle more troops around. Rush Library in Boston
IT-Signed peace with America for Navigation, Banking, and WM. I will break the treaty this turn. Boston Library->barracks. Palace Expansion.
Turn 6 (1010 AD)- France has Metallurgy, but will not trade it. I say bye to our rep and declare on America. Miami falls and America is dead. Shuffle troops toward Madras, for a strike on India. Rush Knight in Lahore, Drop research back down so we can rush more units.
IT- Lahore Knight->knight. Palace expansion
TUrn 7 (1020 AD)- FP due next turn. Shuffle troops. Rush knight in De Luna.
IT-FP is completed. De Luna Knight->knight.
Turn 8 (1030AD)- Research back to 60% Metallurgy due in 5. Cancel ROP with India and Declare war. Attack Delhi, kill 3 pikes, lose 2 knights, take the city and get a Great Leader-Conehead the Destructor.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM5_Ivan_1120AD.JPG

Move 3 knights to strike Calcutta next turn. Take Punjab on our island, killing a longbow.
IT- Moscow Knight->knight. Indians are building Bach's :rolleyes:
Turn 9 (1040AD)- A dead pike and War Elephant later and Calcutta is ours. Merge 4 american workers into Madras and the city is now size 11 and makes 22 spt. 2 knights unload in Lahore.
IT- Japans demands TM and 27 gold. I cave. Punjab riots.
Turn 10 (1050 AD)- Shuffle Troops. Metallurgy due in 2.

Sorry guys, your words to not break our rep were a little late, but I believe that we are fine researching ourself now. India is collasping and we should continue to push foward untill India is off the island. When India is gone, rush libraries in all our cities around the FP and kick the research into full gear. Remember, this is only regent. Our Leader is in Lahore

SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Ivan_SG005_AD1050_01.SAV)

We should save the leader for a cossack army (make an empty army).

With the FP completed, this will become a question of how quickly we can win. Since we're scientific, we have cheap libraries and unis, so can afford to break our rep and get away with it more often.

1]We should save the leader for a cossack army (make an empty army).

2]With the FP completed, this will become a question of how quickly we can win.
3]Since we're scientific, we have cheap libraries and unis, so can afford to break our rep and get away with it more often.
1] Anoter idea is to rush university or Bank. Before RParts Cossacs Army is too strong.
2]If Madras will not flip...
3] What do you mean? We can Make Peace with Arabs and Met, Phys for 77gpt and declare again.
Will play tomorrow. Ideas please.

I am not worried about Madras flipping. I remember from somewhere that the city with a FP cannot flip. Our immediate goal should be to kick India off our island. After Metallurgy is researched, set science to a minimum on MT. Build as many knights as possible, then research MT. I believe the knights can be upgraded to a Cossack for 20-25 gold a pop. So I believe that doing the upgrading will be more productive than building the cossacks from scratch. We should use the leader for an army to be saved for cossacks.

1)I am not worried about Madras flipping. I remember from somewhere that the city with a FP cannot flip.
2)Our immediate goal should be to kick India off our island.
3)After Metallurgy is researched, set science to a minimum on MT. Build as many knights as possible, then research MT. I believe the knights can be upgraded to a Cossack for 20-25 gold a pop.
So I believe that doing the upgrading will be more productive than building the cossacks from scratch.
4)We should use the leader for an army to be saved for cossacks.
1) I read few years ago, and had this bad experience. It may flip.
2) I'd like to kill them all.
3)I am gouing to make false peace with Arabs and reseach MT at Maximum
We get GA soonner, and will have more Cossacs than upgrade from knights.
4) It is not obvious for me, that army better trhan Bank. Will try to evaluate.
Long term plans
I think that war with Egipt will be more efficient with Rifelmens and big fleet. So I think China is better after Spain. I also think that that 120 turns is enough to finish game. At this case we may reseach Replacable Parts if reseach fast... Anyway, first Industrial Tech will be steam Power.
What do we think about Conscription? Do we need Sanitation?

1) I read few years ago, and had this bad experience. It may flip.
3)I am gouing to make false peace with Arabs and reseach MT at Maximum We get GA soonner, and will have more Cossacs than upgrade from knights.
4) It is not obvious for me, that army better trhan Bank. Will try to evaluate.
Long term plans
5)I think that war with Egipt will be more efficient with Rifelmens and big fleet.
6)So I think China is better after Spain.
7)I also think that that 120 turns is enough to finish game.
8)At this case we may reseach Replacable Parts if reseach fast... Anyway, first Industrial Tech will be steam Power.
9)What do we think about Conscription? Do we need Sanitation?

1) Since Delhi and Calcutta is gone, I do not believe that Madras will flip. I chance it will is so small and I am not worried about it.
3)Go ahead but make sure that we have as many knights as possible to upgrade once we get MT.
4)I still think an Army is better.
5)War with Egypt will be tough because of those mountians so we do need a bigger fleet.
6) I agree.
7)It may be close and we will have to quicken our pace to meet this goal. Once we get on the other continent, we can start to raze cities but keep a few.
8) I think we should research up to tanks but if we kill the enemy fast enough our cossacks will not need artillery support.
9)No, we should not research it but if an AI researchs it we should try to buy it.

Here is incompleat pre-turn. question is shall we declare ta Arabs again to save 77 gpt?
Edit: Decided to declare. 77 gpt is 77 gpt...

I think we should redeclare on the Arabs. If you can but most likely cannot be done because of our rep try to pitt the French against the Arabs.

Things go well so far. I think India will be driven away from continent next turn.
as a peace deal I can demand size 1 Cities. Question: Shall I try to kill them all, or better turn army to Spain?

Leaders may not be used to hurry a city's production. The only thing leaders are good for is to create armies. However we could disband the army for a pile of shields. We may wish to attempt a palace jump at some time to the other island. I think we can get 250 shields from a disbanded army. We would need 4 empty armies to palace jump.

Edit : I tested it with Peter the great. Disbanding an army gives us 100 shields.

Bengal needs a courthouse and a temple far more than it needs a bank. We can get to 12 working citizens that way.

The mountain near Cuidad de Luna must be mined soon. The city needs those shields.

We need a pile of workers to mine the irrigated areas of the former American territory. Luckily India has a stack of 4 settlers by Delhi to provide those workers.

It is really important at this point in the game to optimize the tile assignment for each of our captured/productive cities. That means 24 food and as many shields as possible at size 12. Any more food is wasted until we get hospitals.

I would take Karachi and then sign a peace deal with India for its 1 citizen cities. Dacca could be a good city for us with a library, harbour etc. That will push the Indian capital to Jaipur. We can't take it yet anyway.

It is probably time to switch to build a few more caravals. We will need them soon.

Ok, I'll play the rest tomorrow.
In Brief: India don't want to talk.
Valensia flips to Egiptians.
We are at Golden age.
French in war with arabs for 13 gpt.
Shall I declare war to Spain now? We have good chanses to take
2 Cities at preturn.

First of all, I think that we should use our GA to get some infrastructure, because we'll need it, and it'll take a longer time if we do it afterwards. We could always rush more cossacks/galleons after the GA with our extra money.

A few cities need better micro-management:
Miaimi needs to work the irrigated desert, so it gets library in 15, instead of 30(it won't starve).
Washington is about to riot next turn, if we don't make a taxman.
Boston needs a taxman once it grows next turn, so it won't riot the turn after.
Madras needs badly a temple so all it's citizens can work at size 12(and we won't have to keep a clown), then a university and a bank.
Hyderabad: what we want from this city? Do we plan to build an aqueduct after the library or not? If work a mountain, we can get the library 2 turns faster, and even if we want an aqueduct after(so we have more citizens=more gold), we should work again a mountain to get it sooner.
DeLuna is good that it's on a temple, so we can fire the clown, work a lake tile and after that the mountain(to be mined): the temple costs 1gpt, but the gain is much bigger, as only from a lake tike we get 4gpt(and the mountain has it's gold).
Bengal needs to change to temple at the pre-turn(only 1gpt for the temple), and the clown to work the forest(again we make more gold if we make the temple).
New York also needs a temple and then a marketplace, so all it's citizens work and we don't hire clowns.
Also watch Punjab and Hovd.

Watch the Arab galley near San Francisco.

Please, do not leave Peter the Great inside Lahore: even if the flip is really minimal, it doesn't worth it to risk. I'd make an Army with him right away(so we have more chances to make another GL with an Elite win), and load 3 cossacks. The cossack Army will help us to get rid of Spain sooner.

Another issue: please do not leave units inside the former Indian cities, but outside, because they may flip: if they flip, we'll capture them again.

I'd upgrade all our knights now, to cossacks(we have 3).

I'd build the Heroic Epic after the bank in Moscow, so we get more Elites and can form more Armies: the Armies will help us A LOT in qonquering all the continents(each Army can kill at least the first 2 defenders from enemy cities, making the life easier for the cossacks to kill units with less defence, and we won't waste to many cossacks this way, so we'll finish the game sooner).

Speaking of Spain, we can wait a little before we declare, we'll qonquer it quickly with our 2 Armies and our cossacks, anyway.
I'd prefer to qonquer them inside a few turns, after a while. We need to have some defenders/cossacks to the former Indian territory for safety(not only from flip - don't forget that we're in war with the Arabs), and I think that it wouldn't be good to move all our forces to Spain right now.
btw: Pamplona(the city near Moscow) is SUPER!: just take a look to see what potential it has! And it's right next to Moscow: it'd become a very powerful city, working all the forests, mountain(and 2 more forests that we'll plant), as it has whale, fish, game and oysters for food/shields.

Things are constantly change in a game like Civ(that's why I'm not bothered yet of plans of invading the BIG continent), but here's my opinion on whom we should go after, after we qonquer Spain: EGYPT - here's why;
You all said that Egypt will be difficult to take because it has all those mountains to the west. Well, you're correct, BUT, only if we allow Egypt to build in peace with it's CORE cities.
The Egypt cities to the west that have the mountains and the desert, are CRAPPY cities, and won't build anything good without the help of the CORE Egyptian cities.
IMHO, we should qonquer Egypt until Heliopolis, and demand Lisht(1 tile island) and Edfu - then, we should stop the war with Egypt(having left them with CRAPPY cities), and start making our plans for the other continent.
If we let Egypt as it is, later on we'll have difficulty to pass all those mountains that they'll probably have riflemen guarding them, but if we strike their core cities, it'll be a lot more easy to take them out.

btw: while we'll be preparing to invade the big continent, we should built frigates to escort our galleons and also built some privateers to sink various ships from all civs that come on our way: privateers could stay close/inside in coastal cities, so they strike and hide(and doing damage to galleons/offensice ships).

K-A, thanks for detailed comments.
I think I'll declare This turn, Lahore will not flip if we Capture Atlanta.
You know, what I think about Tempels: In this example we get Tax collector instead of Clown (1gpt) and lose 1 gpt for Mantainese. Temle is Fregate prebuild.
I agree with you plans for Egipt. I hope finish Spain and you will implement your plan.
Regards, Ivan.

Ok Ivan, do as you feel better.

Another issue for Egypt is that we won't have a threat from there, if we take their core cities and we won't have to face a MA against us, so we concentrate better on the big continent.

IMHO, we'll make more gpt if we make build the temples when those cities will hit size 12. If we make the clown to work, we earn about 3-4gpt just from it, let alone the gold from the 12th citizen, so I think that for size 11-12 cities a temple is needed.

btw: it's better if we discuss in detail all of our ideas, so the Team can bemefit more.

Edit: Ivan, will you form the Army with Peter the Great(loaded with cossacks)? It will help us a lot.

I was thinking that weak cities, like Hyderabad, could be used for rushing galleons/frigates every couple of turns, so we build only cossacks from our core cities and can invade the big continent on time(having the ships needed) after Spain/Egypt.

Will play in about 8 hours from now.
Hope to here other team members.
GA is important period and we need to carry out as good as possible.
May be Conehead will play after K-A? (Becouse he skiped onse)
What do you think about tech rate?

You decide if Conehead will play after me (because he missed his turns once) - you and Conehead. I thought that the roster was going to change so that Conehead would play his turns, back then, but it didn't happened.

For tech rate, I think that we need Steam Power to connect ASAP all our cities on our island and on the other island(with the FP), so we keep only some units(cossacks/riflemen) to protect our area(s), and FOCUS on conquering the big continent with most of our units.

I'm not sure that it'll be good to wait until tanks to qonquer all the world: A HUGE force of cossacks will take out riflemen, even if we'll have loses.
Also, cossacks have 3 movement and tanks have 2: we just need to rush/build a HUGE Army of cossacks and never stop building them, and, besides, tanks are a long way from our current tech level.
Even against infantries, a good force of cossacks(cavalries) will defeat them slowly but steadily, and I'm not afraid of infantries that much if I have many cossacks to attack - don't forget that they can retreat.
OF COURSE, we can PILLAGE resources so the AI cannot build anything good; just sent the Army(s) to pillage any resource, and the AI will built crappy units.

I think that we should keep researching towards tanks, and of course, transports before it, meaning I wouldn't stop researching just in case, but I wouldn't research at a maximum rate - better rush as many cossacks as we can, while we run science around 30% or so.
Remember that we could always PAY for techs that we miss with cash(since we have a bad rep).

Also, I think that the HE will be needed to have more Elites to attack, and have a possibility for more GL's/Armies - I see it as an investment for the long run.

IMHO that GL not that important in this game. So we do not need HE.
Plaing now

Ok, but at least, make the 2nd Army: Our Armies will be protecting our cossacks when we go on offensive, as we don't have time to build musketmen/riflemen and send them to protect/"cover" our cossacks.

I wouldn't mess up the order. It is a routine now.

Spain and then Egypt is fine. We can keep attacking Egypt for a long time with minimum forces after their core is gone.

Gaining a foothold on the other continent is what is important. China is fairly weak and could be a good first victim. Arabs or French would be harder but it is a short jump.

I don't think we need frigates. We only need transport capacity (caravels). With the other army only load 2 cossacks into it until it is transported to the other continent.

Build infrastructure in the core to make sure the cities get to that magic multiple of 10 shields production. Then build cash producing improvements. Cash and production are what is important now.

We need to decide if we are going to research any more. We can use pointed stick research or we can self research. If we are not researching ourselves then we should sell the universities.

Cities like Hyderabad will never be productive but they can generate lots of cash/research.

Edit:
Spain should have its Spanish missionary unique unit now. If we do attack Spain make sure to keep the single tile land bridge blocked. Their UU has 2 movement points and treats all squares as roaded. A couple of those could make a real mess if they sneak through. Spain should fall easily though as they don't have saltpeter and therefore no muskets.

We should consider disbanding the artillery units if we are not going to use them.

AdreanE wrote:
"We need to decide if we are going to research any more. We can use pointed stick research or we can self research. If we are not researching ourselves then we should sell the universities. "
I think we will research ToG, to get free tech (Nationalism).
But we have to decide next
We may research Steam power (resonable to do). Than we can stop.
Also, we may continue to Replasable Parts and/or Sanitation. We may trade Techs to French, that ensure our income.

I submited 1160AD sav file to "submitions". In fact there is lot of things to do at preturn.
I only put troops at Spain on positions. We may Rush things.
Also, atke into account that next turn we'll have nationalizm, so...

I believe we should also just go to steam power and stop. The money can be used to rush cossacks and galleons. But it may be worthwhile to go to RP so we can get faster workers and artillery and Hover may also be usefull to us.

How about this, we go Steam->industrialization(to get factories)->electricity->medicene->ToE (built the wonder and jump to electronics)->free techs are Atomic Theory and Electronics->RP.

I believe we should also just go to steam power and stop. The money can be used to rush cossacks and galleons. But it may be worthwhile to go to RP so we can get faster workers and artillery and Hover may also be usefull to us.

How about this, we go Steam->industrialization(to get factories)->electricity->medicene->ToE (built the wonder and jump to electronics)->free techs are Atomic Theory and Electronics->RP.
To build hover withot GL is not efficient. The same with Factories. It will take more schields , I belive, then we gain afterword. For the same reason sanitation (hospitals) looks not good (profit will be less than spending). The only good things for Conquest is Replasable Parts. I use Altelery efficiently, Infantry also sometimes good for beachhead and mountains. About cash we have +38 gpt at 100% Sci, also we may trade Saltpeter to Japan for 41 gpt. Later we may trade Medecine.
So my vote is:
Steam power (at 100%), than Medecine, Electrisity and Replasable Parts. (at 60-70% rate). We'll see what we need next. May be Espionage.
Another use of trading saltpeter that Moscow, Madras and NY will be able to build Knights at 2 turns (via LB). We'll connect our second saltpeter and upgrade.

In fact there is lot of things to do at preturn.

I need specific instructions on what you planned to do, and to get an idea how things are going on, please.

I'd also like to have 1 musketman/rifleman in all our core cities, and all our coastal cities on the other island - we'll be in trouble if someone unloads 3-4 cavalries(caravels/galleons).

I'd also load a 3rd cossack into the Army - galleons have 4 capacity.

0 1050 AD
Make peace with Arabs for physics, Metalurgy, WM, 7 g for 77 gpt.
Trade WM around. Trade Ivory+WM+1gpt for wool to Kelts. Renegotiate fur deal with French (20 gpt). Surround Pick/settlers group. Will kill with help of canons.
Redeclare to Arabs to save 77 gpt.
IBT Pick/settlers group try to escape.
1 1060 AD Bring knights and Army to take Bombey.
IBT . Pick/settlers group try to escape, workers hide in Bombey. Iroquois and Arab galley sail.
2 1070 AD Capture Bobey and Seatle with min Loses: Some knights redlined. Upgrade cat to Canons. Trade Ivory to English for 8 gpt. Trade Ivory to French for 25 gpt.
IBT Arabs galley sail around SF. Spanish workers go to Atlanta. India split their group.
Palace expand.
3 1080 AD Take Karachy. Kill 1 Pick /settler group (got 4 workers, lose knight) .French have MT, but do not want to sell. They agree, however for 100 gpt??. OK, will try next turn for lump sum. India don’t want to talk. Decided to trade it next turn. Decrease Sci.
Trade to Japan: Dies for Ivory, WM and 3gpt.
IBT Arabs galley sail around Miami.
4. 1090 AD
Regroupe Knights to meet arabs. Move Axemens closer. Trade MT from French for WM+206 gold. Sci 50%. Magnetizm 7 turns. Upgrade some knights to Cossaks. Lose knight vs 3/3 Spear.
IBT Valencia flipped to Egyptians. Arabs galley sail back around Miami.
5. 1100 AD. Kill Pick/spear/Settler group. Got 4 workers. Enter GA. Supervise galley.
IBT Arabs galley sail back around SF. Philadelphia riots (sorry).
6. 1110 AD Bring French to alliance vs Arabs for WM, 1+13 gpt. Declare war to spain and take Atlanta and Sevilia. Pull troops to siege Madras. Send caravels to upgrade. Sci 80%, Magnetizm 2 turns. Trade fur to English.
IBT Arabs galley sail west around SF (they are looking for…)

7. 1120 AD Storm Madras. No loses, 1 Cossack retreat. Bring 13/13 army to help. ??Unload unprotected canon near Toledo?? Trade fur to English.
IBT Missioner from Madras break canon and hide in Toledo. Arabs unload knight near Phyladelphia. Got Magnetism.
8. 1130 Second siege of Madras. Army redlined, Cossacks red and yellow lined. 2/4 Pick left in Madras. Kill Arab’s knight. Trade Magnetizm to French for 22 gpt. Trade magnetism to Japan for 130g+45 gpt. Make Alliance vs Arabs for 17 gpt.
IBT Missioner attack army near Madras and die. Arabs Galley sail.
9. 1140 Third siege of Madras. 4/4 Cossack die vs 4/4 pick. Conehead destructor kill pick, capture Madras and promote to Elite. Unload Canons and Pick at forest near Toledo bring Cossack to Toledo.
IBT Arabs sail. Missioner attack Conehead in Madras and die.
10. 1150 Capture Toledo. Capture Dacca. Indians agree to talk. Take Mus. Theory, WM, gold, and make alliance vs Arabs.
IBT Missioner attack Conehead 3/5->1/5 in Madras and die.
11. 1160 AD (incompleate). Unload Canons and Pick near Barselona. It should be enough to take it next turn. Spain already agree to talk, but I think better to make false peace next turn. We will demand all cities except Santiago. And Casa del Bam… as well.
We disband it or give. Kill Spain.

I need specific instructions on what you planned to do, and to get an idea how things are going on, please.

1) I'd also like to have 1 musketman/rifleman in all our core cities, and all our coastal cities on the other island - we'll be in trouble if someone unloads 3-4 cavalries(caravels/galleons).

2) I'd also load a 3rd cossack into the Army - galleons have 4 capacity.
I put troops at optimal position to finish spain and attack Egiptians.
I did some mkmng(Bengal, Atlanta) (see save) rush aqueduct. You may trade WM around.
Next turn I think you will capture Barselona And make peace with Spain. (Demand all Cities.) Regroupe and declare again. kill Santiago and regroupe to war with Egiptians.
1) You may upgrade Pickmens if you scare.
2) I thing Army is wrong idea, but up to you.
Ivam

Pre-turn:
Micro-manage some cities. Trade WM.

IBT
We learn ToG >> Start Steam Power. Nationalism is our free tech.

1170AD (1)
Capture Barcelona.

I sign Peace Treaty with Spain(as requested), and demand Pamplona, Santander, Murcia, Casa Del Bamrapido, WM and 11g.

I gift Casa Del Bamrapido to England. Trade WM for 24g.

IBT
Kyoto(Japan) finishes JS Bach's Cathedral.

1180AD (2)
Trade WM for 21g. Upgrade some units to riflemen.

Re-declare war to Spain: Santiago won't fall with our attack of Army and 3 cossacks(many spears inside), so the city didn't fall immediately.

IBT
Lyons(France) complete Magellan's.
3 Spears come out of Santiago - 1 entered the borders of Barcelona.

1190AD (3)
I capture Santiago(killing the last 2 spears, as well as the 3 spears outside it's borders), but Spain still exists? I can't see any city on the map - maybe they already had a settler in a caravel?

Trade WM for 5g.

1200AD (4)
This turn Spain settled Asturias, at a small island at the far west.
Trade WM for 7g.

IBT
Aztecs and Arabs sign against India.

1210AD (5)
We learn Steam Power >> Electricity - we can discuss again our tech-path before I play the remaining turns.

No gold from WM this turn.

France and Japan are to Industrial Ages now.

We have 2 sources of coal, and we need more workers: I think that especially Philadelphia, as well as unproductive cities, should make workers continously.

Got it... will probably play tomorrow.

Wait Tomoyo, Alex still has 5 more turns to complete. I will look at the save tonight.

I'll prepare our Army for the war with Egypt: Egypt has saltpeter from somewhere, so I expect a bit resistance as they had time for musketmen - it'd be good to hurt them with a major blow(take at least 2 cities inside 1-2 turns and continue steadily), and not make this war last long.
If I not start the war at my turns, next player can do it.

Murcia is undefended, and either we move there a couple of cossacks or rush a rifleman.

We have expanded our borders, and the 2nd salpeter is ours now, but not connected. We can trade the 1st source to Japan so we built knights for upgrade(as Ivan said), but after the war with Egypt, while we prepare to invade the big continent.

We need more workers because there's much of land to improve, and also make the railroads.
Barcelona has the Pyramids, so the cities on the other island will grow quickly; maybe we can pump out a worker now and then from various cities. Philadelphia is an ideal city for making workers all the time.
The workers we can now make are foreing, so we don't pay for them.
I already transfered a few workers to our island (some go for Pamplona), but we need more otherwise the railroads will take an eternity with all that forests.

Pamplona could help us a lot with all that food it has(after we expand it's borders), and we only need to plant 2 forests/mine the mountain and road everything. It's right next to Moscow.

IMHO, we need to make more strong cities ASAP, so they start helping us after a while with producing units, otherwise this game will take some time to finish - That's why we need to improve the land and railroad tiles ASAP.

Tech path, please? We need to make a decision on this and stick to it. How long do you expect the game to last?

K-A,
Micromng NY to build Cossack in 3 turn. Unfortunatly you build Temple here and we can't do it in 2 turns. Rush temple at wash and change to Cossack. Do it each second turn. Micromanage Dheli consistently! 99 schields Cosacs than via temple.... Bring 2 cossacks in Murica for defence.
You might declare Egyptians this turn if think in advance. (They will ask to remove troops, it is OK). Fortify in Murcia and Declare next turn.
Do not scare flips! Put some troops to Cities for Heal and defence!
Tech path is Electrisity-> rep. Parts. What workers do? They should build Rail roads. Stop them... Let Phyladephia build workers naturally. Rush Barracks in Madrid or Barselona. Bring Pickman back to front. Salpeter costs about 50 gpt. Do not gift it for nothing (8 gpt). Might be an idea to make embassy in Thebs to know what inside before attack.

I agree with needing to build Railroads right away. A comment on the tech path. I believe after Rep Parts we should research Industrialization to get the extra production.

I agree with needing to build Railroads right away. A comment on the tech path. I believe after Rep Parts we should research Industrialization to get the extra production.
100% agree. I also think we will use GL to rush Factories.

Ok, Ivan, I'll do that. I'll drop the research about 10-20%(we run at 100%, currently), so I can have the cash to rush temple>>cossack, and also to make an embassy.
btw: I could sell the temple(s) that you feel they're don't needed, if you name the cities that could produce the cossacks the same or less turns as now, but with lower population than 12(cities with 10-11 citizens, that is).

I went for temples because we'd need them for size 12 cities, and we earn much more gold from 1-2 more citizens, with cities at size 12: maybe we'll need them in the long run, maybe not - depends how the game goes.

@conehead: if we research Industrialization after RP, that means that we'll go for factories, aiming for more production, otherwise, is it worth it? One reason should be to get units/cossacks faster, and also aim for tanks at some point.
Anyway, we'll need many workers to get benefitted from factories(railroad every workable tile) and also watch for pollution.

If want to save money for rush cossacks, we'll also have to run science at a slower pace - have we decided to keep researching at what we can, while we also rush units?

P.S.: I won't play until later, cause I'm busy - I just had time to post now.

But if we want to rush factories with GL's, we need to have more possibilities of having GL's - that suggests to built the HE, IMHO, otherwise we may only rush 1-2 factories until the end.

One more point: if we wanted to go for tanks, then why not built ToE and get the techs toward it? We must decide until when are we going to research - of course, the game could be unpredictable(we may not actually need tanks or vice versa).

Ok, Ivan, I'll do that. I'll drop the research about 10-20%(we run at 100%, currently), so I can have the cash to rush temple>>cossack, and also to make an embassy.
So cossacks will be 3 turn each from each productive City. Some Cities may build Cossack/3 turn themself.
You mean Sci 80-90%? (5 turn Electrisity). It is OK. Also if french will pay Full price for Steam Power we can give it...
GLs: Yes, I think we will have 1 or 2 Factories, not more...

Temples generate culture. So do not sell them if they exist. In costal Cities you may use Galleons for cossacs interbuild.

I think we should research at a low level (just enough to keep up with the AIs - 30%). We do not need to be a tech leader. Edit: remember if we research something first it makes it CHEAPER for the AIs. We want a slow tech pace to maximize our advantage.

We should look at capturing luxuries as a priority. We can reduce our own lux rate and we can sell the excess for GPT. Edit: i see we are already doing this.

What are our preparations to hit the other continent? That is the most important thing now.

Edit: I've looked at the save.

We need cash to rush stuff. I think we should decrease research to 40%. That will give us 512gpt to rush improvements. Santander, Dacca and Pampelona need to be improved (library, harbour, granary ASAP) They can be useful cities for us. Also Santander should get more cultural buildings (University, Temple, Cathedral, Colliseum in that order). Short rush the improvements by rushing a worker for 80G, switch to improvement and then rush for the remainder. We could flip St Regis and the Keltic town.

We need LOTs more workers. Russian workers are fine. We need a strategic rail net and then we need a southern road/rail to Santander. Prioritize the workers to railroad the most productive squares first. remember the target is 24 food and the maximum number of shields (multiple of 10) for most effecient production.

Once cities have 20 + shields of production (after the GA ends) dedicate them to building cossacks. Bengal needs a courthouse so it can reach this goal.

Playing now.

1)I think we should research at a low level (just enough to keep up with the AIs - 30%).
2)We do not need to be a tech leader. Edit: remember if we research something first it makes it CHEAPER for the AIs. We want a slow tech pace to maximize our advantage.

3) We should look at capturing luxuries as a priority. We can reduce our own lux rate and we can sell the excess for GPT. Edit: i see we are already doing this.

4)What are our preparations to hit the other continent? That is the most important thing now.



5) We need cash to rush stuff. Santander, Dacca and Pampelona need to be improved (library, harbour, granary ASAP) They can be useful cities for us. Also Santander should get more cultural buildings (University, Temple, Cathedral, Colliseum in that order). Short rush the improvements by rushing a worker for 80G, switch to improvement and then rush for the remainder.
6)We could flip St Regis and the Keltic town.

7)We need LOTs more workers. Russian workers are fine.

8) We need a strategic rail net and then we need a southern road/rail to Santander. Prioritize the workers to railroad the most productive squares first. remember the target is 24 food and the maximum number of shields (multiple of 10) for most effecient production.

9)Once cities have 20 + shields of production (after the GA ends) dedicate them to building cossacks. Bengal needs a courthouse so it can reach this goal.
Disagree with concept. Count how many turns left to the end of the game. I belive 80-90. If it is so we do not need most of improuvments.
1) I prefer to have Rep. Parts ASAP. Then we can lower research rate.
2) We may trade non-military Techs to increase our income. With current rate we may get Flight or/and Amphibious war, I think tanks are too far away.
3) Curently we have Lux Tax 0%. But better to have independent sourses of Lux. I think China+Zulu may "provide" us what we need.
4)We may start Rail Road to south point of our island, where B/camp used to be. It is shortest way to conquer China/Zulu.
5) I think these impouvments are useles. We need Cossacks, not Improvements. Libraries and barrakcs are OK.
6) It is easer to take them by forse.
7) After GA
8) I agree.
9) I agree, but...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Ivan_SG005_AD1255_01.SAV

Pre-turn:
Hurry temple at Washington, change to cossack in 2. Lower science to 80%, Electricity in 5.
Establish embassy with Egypt for 31g: Thebes has 3 spearmen, building cavalry in 1 turn(next turn), makes 12spt.
Hurry barracks at Barcelona and move units inside to heal.
Hit spacebar by mistake before I complete my tasks, when I was near the end of completing them, so I reload.
Move 2 cossacks towards Murcia.
Trade Steam Power to France for WM + 26g(all their gold) + Democracy + 110gpt(they wouldn't give more gold without Democracy, it was the same gpt).

IBT
Egypt asks to "move troops automatically", I agree, and 2 cossacks go to Murcia.

1220AD (6)
The 2 cossacks fortify at Murcia. I drop science to 90%, Electricity in 3, 202gpt.

Choose to make Axemen in cities that need many turns to make cossacks and/or have temples - I'll hurry the Axemen and change to cossacks.

1230AD (7)
Buy a worker from Egypt for 22g. Trade WM for 26g.

Declare on Egypt and move troops into positions: I won't attack Thebes now across the river, but next turn - apart from the 3 spearmen, it also has a cavalry fortified(I can see it), and a knight nearby.

IBT
An Egyptian cavalry charges and kills a cossack 1 tile inside Madrid's borders.

Madinah(Arabic) finishes Newton's.

2 Egyptian knights go outside Barcelona.

1240AD (8)
Kill the Egyptian knight, cossacks wins with 3/4hp left. Drop science to 40%, Electricity in 2.

Siege of Thebes:
Cossack Army attacks Thebes' pikeman, wins, but loses 4hp(8/12).
Cossack kills spearman, promotes to Elite(5/5).
Cossack kills the last spearman without losing hp's, and Thebes falls, keeping it's barracks.

Another cossack kills 1 knight, loses 1 hp but promotes to Elite(4/5).
We kill the last of the 2 Egyptian knighst outside the borders of Barcelona, cossack loses 1hp.

2 cossacks attack Pi-Rameses, both retreat from the same regular musketman(now 2/3) - bad luck.

Siege of Memphis:
Knight Army kills a knight at Memphis, loses 4hp(10/14).
Order the 2 cossacks from Murcia to attack now: Conehead the Destructor retreats against spearman(the real conehead would be much tougher!!!), but 2nd cossack from Murcia kills the spearman and captures Memphis.

Trade WM for 7g.

IBT
England and Arabs sign an MA against us.

2 Egyptian knights: 1 enters the borders of Thebes, the other is outside them.

1250AD (9)
Trade WM for 7g.

Siege of Pi-Rameses:
Cossack Army kills the healed musketman, now Army has 6/12hp.
Elite cossack kills a pikeman, and Pi-Ramese falls, keeping it's aquadect and marketplace(but 6! resistors).

We lose an Elite cossack attacking a regular knight at plains - argh! - We kill the regular knight, cossack loses 1hp(3/4).
We kill another Egyptian knight outside the borders of Thebes, cossack is still "healthy"!

IBT
Wool deal with Keltoi ends: I offer Keltoi Furs + Ivory + 50g for Wool.

1255AD (10)
We learn Electricity >> RP in 4, at 90%, 181gpt.

I CAN'T BELIEVE our RNG!!! Knight Army with 9hp, dies attacking a REGULAR knight at Elephantine!

Summary
3 hull hp cossacks are next to Heliopolis. I expect them to do some damage.

Note that I have fortified 2 cossacks inside Memphis(1/3 movement), and 2 more are fortified inside(Conehead needs to heal, but the city has no barracks and has still resistors) - next player can decide his plan. 1 more cossack is outside Memphis.

The Army and the Elite cossack maybe should go to Thebes to heal. The 2 (1/4hp) cossacks inside Thebes should heal next turn.
Inside the borders of Pi-Rameses, on the hill, is fortified a 3/4hp cossack.

2 more cossacks are on their way.

Important: be careful to watch the cities set on Axemen and temples(better do it in the beginning of your turns), rush the improvement/unit, and change back to cossack: I already did that in some cities, currently.

Trade Steam Power to France for WM + 26g(all their gold) + Democracy + 110gpt(they wouldn't give more gold without Democracy, it was the same gpt).
110 gpt is too little for Steam IMHO, but overall play is OK.

1) I prefer to have Rep. Parts ASAP. Then we can lower research rate.

I agree.

2) We may trade non-military Techs to increase our income. With current rate we may get Flight or/and Amphibious war, I think tanks are too far away.

We'll see how it goes, but with MANY cossacks, and Infantries to protect them while they heal, we have nothing to be afraid of.

3) Curently we have Lux Tax 0%. But better to have independent sourses of Lux. I think China+Zulu may "provide" us what we need.

Keltoi have wines: they may be willing to trade for obsolete techs - I forgot to mention it in my log, as I didn't tried to offer a deal.

5) I think these impouvments are useles. We need Cossacks, not Improvements. Libraries and barrakcs are OK.

Now that we have some luxuries, anything beyond even a temple is useless(Yes, I know your opinion about temples :D )

NOTE: The cities that currently build workers, I had 3 in during my turns, are absolutely ENOUGH to provide us all the workers we need, as every 1-2 turns they make a worker without starving to death I suggest that we transfer some of them to our island when they start reaching towards the south of the other island; the other island can have plenty of workers.

When we connect all our cities on the other island, we should mine BG's mainly for more shields, where a city needs them to make a cossack in 3 or 4 turns.

Oh, what we'll research after RP? At what order?

Edit: What is our plan after Egypt?(don't forget to demand the 1 tile city, the city on the small island and that city north of Memphis - I don't remember their names now).

We need to consider some MA's when we invade the big/strong nations, and maybe turn against our allies(declaring on all) when the time is right, so we kill everything on site!

"Oh, what we'll research after RP? At what order?"
Industrialisation.

If can rush cossacks after 2 turns at cities that need 4-5 turns to build them(I mean, after the 2nd turn), we'd have all the cossacks that we'd need, at that rate, but it costs a lot of money to do it in many cities, so we'd have to lower our research.

I have a question: Why are cities like Washington, which is producing 15spt, building a temple? 60 shields for temple + 15 shields = 5 shields short. We can use a cannon to short rush. Cannons are 50 shields.

Before we knock out Egypt remember to demand that one tile city.

With MA's we should pit France against Arabia. While we jump on China and the Vikings. We will need a bigger navy because we have to produce a steady stream of Cossacks and we need to ship workers over to build our rail net on the other continent. We should go Egypt->China->Vikings->then work our way counter clockwise around the continent.

I have a question: Why are cities like Washington, which is producing 15spt, building a temple? 60 shields for temple + 15 shields = 5 shields short. We can use a cannon to short rush. Cannons are 50 shields.
Canon 40 schields, unfortunately. but may be OK to use it as interbuild.
Renegotiate fur deal with France. They may pay more than20 gpt.
Trade fur to vikings.
Trade Democrasy to zulu for Gems.
Support our Alliance with France and Japan vs Arabs.
May be they will pay us...
Do not trade Nationlism/Electrisity.

Pre-flight: Someone please tell me why we have four workers on Hyderabad island?

IT: The Arabs destroy the Indians. Kill an Egyptian Knight and lose a Cossack.

1260AD: Position troops to strike Heliopolis next turn.

IT: Aztecs sign the Arabs against the French.

1265AD: Lose two Cossacks but take Heliopolis.

IT: Renew Dyes deal for two luxes.

1270AD: No combat. Just advancing and healing. (Mostly healing)

IT: Replaceable Parts – Industrialization (50%)

1275AD: Two cities captured. Elephantine and Giza.

IT: Arabs and France sign peace. Golden Age ends. :(

1280AD: Capture Alexandria.

IT: Many major cities riot. :confused: Maybe it’s the War weariness…

1285AD: Buy gems from Zululand because many major cities mysteriously rioted (War weariness?)

IT: Thebes flips. :( Cities quiet down.

1290AD: Thebes recaptured. Valencia captured. Stupid Pike in Valenica brings our Cossack army down to two hp! :eek:

IT: None.

1295AD: Make peace with Spain for Jaen, Economics, and their WM. Athribus captured. Hieraconpolis captured. Some city with an unpronounceable name razed (oops). El-Amarna captured.

1300AD: Abydos captured.

SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Ivan_SG005_AD1300_01.SAV)

Well done, Tomoyo.

It's time to make peace with Egypt and demand Lisht and Edfu IMHO.

We have the money to upgrade the riflemen to infantries, so we should do it. Some cities should be set on infantries only, so we also have the defenders we need to invade the other continent, and some coastal cities(choose those who're not so strong) should be set on galleons.

France knows Nationalism already: maybe they also had a GA with their musketeers? Their pace was quick, since they were into war with the Arabs(but not anymore).

I'd say to capture cities on the big island, and we keep a "straight-line" of cities, probably disbanding other cities a s we continue: we don't go for domination, so be careful and recommend MapStat.
We'll probably raze some of the crappy Egyptian cities(in the area with the mountains) when we need to, so we won't hit domination, but for the time being, we keep them.

Now that we make much gold, we could rush units/improvements on the 2nd turn(in weak cities) and change to cossacks/infantries/galleons.

Note: we should transfer more workers on our island to railroad all those forests ASAP, so we make units in 1 turn less.

We also have to improve the land on the FP continent, as some cities can be much more productive and help us.
Don't forget that we also need many workers to railroad/connect the big continent cities that we'll capture FAST, so our reinforcements get in the front line on time.

I'd starve Elephantine and bring more garisson for the resistors, as it has the only RUBBER we have.

1) France knows Nationalism already: maybe they also had a GA with their musketeers? Their pace was quick, since they were into war with the Arabs(but not anymore).

2) I'd say to capture cities on the big island, and we keep a "straight-line" of cities, probably disbanding other cities a s we continue: we don't go for domination, so be careful and recommend MapStat.
We'll probably raze some of the crappy Egyptian cities(in the area with the mountains) when we need to, so we won't hit domination, but for the time being, we keep them.

3) Note: we should transfer more workers on our island to railroad all those forests ASAP, so we make units in 1 turn less.

4) I'd starve Elephantine and bring more garisson for the resistors, as it has the only RUBBER we have.
1) We must renew our allianses vs Arabs.
2) I think we loose already, so Domination will finish this game faster.
3) Railroad do not increase forest tile production.
4) Better to capture other rubber or kill Egyptians. but strave + Library also help.

The Varient calls for Conquest and didn't MadBax say that Civ 1.29 and PTW 1.27 will be getting seperate awards because of the bug that makes Civ 1.29 harder. We are ahead of the Civ 1.29 teams. Remember to demand Lisht or we will have to research all the ways to marines. The Next player should begin to build our navy for the invasion of China.

It looks that Tomoyo ignore my recomendations: (post # 334)

1)Renegotiate fur deal with France. They may pay more than20 gpt.
2)Trade fur to vikings.
3)Trade Democrasy to zulu for Gems.
4) Support our Alliance with France and Japan vs Arabs.
May be they will pay us...
5) Do not trade Nationlism/Electrisity.
1) not late to do it now. Or bring them back to war with Arabs for fur.
2) Still possible trade.
3) Done, fortunatly, but with delay.
4) Japan now agree for nothing, but may be better to cancel deal.
5) Still valid to do.
Also Adrean, please, upgrade Canons to Altelery and Rifelmen to Infantry, axemen to militia.
We may also make peace with Egyptians for few Cities and Emglish for Casa del B. Alternatively we may bring kelts to alliance vs Eng and Arabs for Coal.
I see Conehead point. Let try to finish game as variant.
I think we may send 2 Galeons South and rush Ironclad via Galeon in Moscow.

I think we may send 2 Galeons South and rush Ironclad via Galeon in Moscow.

Ivan, are you thinking of ship-chaining? South where? Whom do we plan to strike first, China, as conehead said?

We need infantries to protect our cossacks, and, say, 2 "pairs" of Infantries to go and pillage resources deep in enemy territory(of course, the Infantry "pairs" should be unloaded in another site, so they reach the resources faster): now, we'd aim to pillage Iron resources, but soon it'll be rubber.
Of course, all this is a bit general, as we have to look at the enemy's territory to see what resources they have.

Some Ironclads could help us a lot, since the AI can also built them(some civs that have coal).

I have it.

I made a post last night but it seems to have dissappeared.

We need to decide who to hit next. Arabs? China? Someone else?

I favour attacking the Arabs first. They are stronger. However we can build a second army group to hit the Chinese.

Artillery is useless in the small quantities we have. We have no need to upgrade the riflemen. Cossacks will be our offensive arm until we encounter someone with lots of infantry.

We need some Inf to protect beachead. Also, they may attack instead of Cossacks when unload.
"I favour attacking the Arabs first. They are stronger. However we can build a second army group to hit the Chinese." Don't forget to bring France to alliance. If we capture rubber arabic cities it will be good. It is simpler to rush galleons at North.
Also we may capture chinise and zulu. Inf+7 Cossacks expedition is reasonable.
"Artillery is useless in the small quantities we have. We have no need to upgrade the riflemen. Cossacks will be our offensive arm until we encounter someone with lots of infantry." It helps, IMHO. Do not disband it, please.
I think we may go to Combussion at 50% rate.

preturn

Reduce research to 30%

Rush courthouse in Boston to set up worker pump
Rush courthouse Delhi, Washington, Cuidad deLuna
Rush market in Banglore
Rush harbors in Santander, Pampelona, Dacca
Rush a Galleon in Giza - Egypt will NOT give us Edfu as it has coal - therefore we need a boat

Attempt to renegotiate furs deal with France - they won't do it
Sell furs to Vikings for 11GPT
Sign alliance vrs English with Aztecs for free
Sign alliance vrs Arabs with Zulu for Economics
Zulu do not have gems to trade - Tomoyo must have done trade as suggest by Ivan
Renegoitiate alliance vrs arabs with Japan - it used to cost us 17GPT now it is free

I spent a lot of time optimizing tile assignments. Our cities are much more effecient now. Washington is now actually productive! Don't waste workers on the hopelessly corrupt towns which we now have so many of.

I rushed lots of stuff as well. However I rush improvements only in relatively productive cities.

1305AD - take 2 Egyptian towns, establish Embassy with Vikings, Vikings pay us 9GPT for ROP - needed because I intend to make a land attack vrs China
IBT - Arabs and Aztecs ally against us

1310AD - destroy Muscat (Arabs), and get Stalin who forms an army
sign peace deal with Egypt for Lisht, Avaris, Tanis, Mendes
IBT - Arabs and Japan sign peace

1315AD - reposition units, sell France furs for 25GPT

1320AD - Land 1st wave of expeditionary force to Arabia outside Jaipur

1325AD - take Jaipur

1330AD - redeclare war on Egypt
Buy Japan into war against Arabs for our spare saltpeter
IBT - Burdigia flips to us, Arabs land 2 Cavalry on Hyderbad island - Tomoyo if you had left those workers on the island, the arabs could not land

1335AD - Take Riyadh - there is noting of value in it so I abandon it. Flip chances are too high. Lenin arrives as we attack Egypt.

Lose some units to Arab counter attack.

1340AD - get France into Arab war for 13GPT

1345AD - destroy Egypt
IBT - Aztecs land Longbow outside of Jaen just as it riots - we will lose it and there is nothing I can do.

1350AD - abandon Jaen to avoid the WW hit
Take Medina. It has nothing useful except newtons. Flip risk is high so I abandon it.


Notes to next player:
You can trade horses, Fur and Theory of Gravity to Iroqouis for Wines.
There are 7 cossacks in Viking territory moving to Bejing. There are 3 more waiting to load a galleon at Moscow. A second galleon is going to Santander for repairs.

There is a 1 turn sea path between India/America and Arabia.

The strategic rail net is reaching into Egyptian lands. We need a few more defensive units to protect all we have conquered.

We have infantry/cossack/artillery task force in Arabia. There are 3 cossack armies there or on the way. The armies need a few more cossacks to be filled.

Does anyone have an objection to an expidition to sweep china and a larger assult on the Arabs at the same time? I believe we can support a 2 front war. Another thing is that we can start to raze cities on the other continent. It will relieve us of flip risk and allow us to advance faster. Keep a few cities for healing and ports.

EDIT: Just realized I cross posted. I got it and will play today.

Where is the save?
edit: I see...

"
1)You can trade horses, Fur and Theory of Gravity to Iroqouis for Wines.

2)The strategic rail net is reaching into Egyptian lands. We need a few more defensive units to protect all we have conquered.

3) We have infantry/cossack/artillery task force in Arabia. There are 3 cossack armies there or on the way. The armies need a few more cossacks to be filled."
1) Better to do it when we strike Zulu for spises and Gems.
2) Cossacks also may defend crappy cities. Also, we may abonded it as thread appears. Let them buil welth.
3) why you did not rush Factory with Leader? What we are researching now?

From looking at the save. Japan and the Zulu both have 1 tile city islands. We also have the option to moblize which could help us pump out more cossacks to speed our victory. We are far enough ahead in tech to be not worried about being outclassed.

Ivan

Leaders can only make armies. Mad-bax removed their ability to hurry city production.

The celts have a 1 tile city as well. There are a couple of other 1 tile islands in the south. The AIs could settle there. I think we keep a modest research pace going to get amphibious warfare just in case.

Adrian

We also have the option to moblize which could help us pump out more cossacks to speed our victory.
I had that in mind all day long! Mobilization will help us a lot.
Only make sure to make 1-2 harbors somewhere(in different cities, that is) to connect new luxuries/resources with our CORE cities, before we go into Mobilization.
The workers we need on the big continent(to railroad, make colonies, etc...) could come from razed cities.
I'm 100% for Mobilization now: even corrupt cities will definetly benefit from it, and they'll start to help us.

I haven't yet seen the save, though :D

EDIT: I also think that we could support a 2 front war, if we play smart: mobilization will help us, but beware that any city-improvements currently on-built will probably change, so we rush it, and more importantly, rush a couple of harbors on the big continent before we mobilize.

Anyway, if I miss something, feel free to post your comment.

Ivan

1)Leaders can only make armies. Mad-bax removed their ability to hurry city production.

2)The celts have a 1 tile city as well. There are a couple of other 1 tile islands in the south. The AIs could settle there.
I think we keep a modest research pace going to get amphibious warfare just in case.

Adrian
1)Leaders can be disbanded for 250 schields Army for 100 scields
2) exactly. Also mariners stronger, than Cossacs.

"Only make sure to make 1-2 harbors somewhere(in different cities, that is) to connect new luxuries/resources with our CORE cities, before we go into Mobilization. "
I vote for mobilization! We can quit it at any time (say peace with English...)
We can Build harbors at mobilisation. The Factories will continue at mobilisation as well.
When rush cossack, do not do it in full, too many schields are lost. May be we can swich it to Infantry.

I am about half way done. I will finish tomorrow. China is kicked off the continent, Arab capital is razed and 2 of their cities are captured.

Preturn (1350AD)- Looks good, press enter.
IT-Kelti cancel wool deal and we cannot get it back. We get Pentagon message. Phili riots.
Turn 1 (1355 AD)- Moblize. Trade horses, furs, ToG to iroqious for wines. Shift troops.
IT-China tells us to get out or else. I declare war.
Turn 2 (1360AD)- Capture Makkah, then I abandon it. Capture Bejing, keep it because it has a harbor. Raze Xinjian. Capture Casa Del Bamrapido from English. Rush some cossacks.
IT-7 cossacks are built.
Turn 3 (1365 AD)- Bombard Dhahran.
IT-Lose our dyes, Japan does not want to renew it.
Turn 4 (1370AD)- Capture Nanking and Tsingtao. Tsingtao has a barracks. Bombard and take Dhahran. Rush Cossacks.
IT- 8 cossacks are built
Turn 5 (1375 AD)- Capture Najran. Rush Barracks in Dhahran. Troop movements
IT- Nada
Turn 6 (1380 AD)- Bombard capture and abandon Snagha. Up lux to 20% to prepare for lose of gems next turn. Move troops into zulu territory. . Rush some cossacks, unload more cossacks onto the arab front.
IT-Zulu tell us to get out, we declare war. Sign peace with England. About 10 cossacks are built.
Turn 7 (1385AD)-Capture and Isanhlwana, keep it because it has a barracks. . Built colony on spices. Advance troops to hit Damascus and Bapedi next turn.
IT-Sign peace with china, gaining Chengdu. More cossacks are built.
Turn 8 (1390 AD)- Bapedi falls, keep it and we now have wool. Capture and Abandon Mpondo. Capture Damascus, keep it because it has a barracks and Incense. Rush harbor in Dhahran. More troop shuffling.
IT- Corporation is researched, set to refining at 60% due in 7. We many need marines because the Keltoi 1 tile city has coal under it and they may not give it up.
Turn 9 (1395AD)-kill a couple Impi and Zimbabwe is razed. Jeddah is torched.
IT- Nada
Turn 10 (1400 AD)- movements and stuff.

SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Ivan_SG005_AD1400_01.SAV)

We have 5 native luxs now. Just a reminder. Keep our lux as high as possible. More Happy faces = more score.

We have 5 native luxs now. Just a reminder. Keep our lux as high as possible. More Happy faces = more score.


I am terribly sorry for interruption but. This game is not about the score, but about the fastest finish... There is are no laurels for scores... You can have the lowest score in competition but if you win first you get the prize.
Unfortunately quite few teams are running for score instead for the fast victory.

Got it, but did not get it yet...[j/k]

Here is the save. Question:
Shall I kill arabs first and then start war with French? Shal I wait for end alliance if Arabs run away?

I didn't look at the save because I do not have Civ on the computer I am using. But I say sweep into France now and we can pick off the last 1 or 2 arab cities with the reinforcements. It is important that we finish as fast as possible. Remember with the keltoi, Japanese, and Zulu; do not take their capital untill we demanded their 1 tile island cities, we do not want the capital to jump to them.

We must be careful at what cities we keep, so we don't hit domination.

We can use our Armies to pillage Iron and Saltpeter resources; we just need them to be healed and go pillage everything.

Hopefully, the stupid AI will waste time and effort trying to re-settle the land, even while it's in war and under heavy attack.

We "need" 1368 tiles for Domination. I'll keep Cities not to recapture new ones.

You must win by conquest victory condition.


Are you guys playing variant? Can't have a domination win then.
Domination=lost game

I think we should kill the Arabs, then go for the French. Also, the French have a city named "Alexmanistan". :crazyeye:

We certainly must be careful at what cities we keep, and even if we need 1 city for its strategical location, we can disband another city and/or disband the newly captured city after we don't need it to control the area.

We also need to watch carefully if a civ has a 1-tile city, so we demand it.

EDIT:@Tomoyo: there's also an Arab city called "Sirplebidah" - I thought the members knew it already since we traded WM. Mad-bax has always a few suprises for the Teams :goodjob:

I killed Arabs at 1420 and Declare French allready,
Inverstigate and take "Alexmanistan".
Nothing intersting...
@ Domnako,
"Domination=lost game"
I know. Thats why I Checked mapstat to know how far we are...
@ K-A,
game is difficult, we have many units and war is comlicated,
when you wish/will play?
Edit: Paris ours 1435. Comments, please...

half way done and lot to do...
zulus dont want to give up Ngome...

@Ivan: Please explain what do you mean(I usually play after your turns - do you want to change something? - need anything else?)

@Ivan: Please explain what do you mean(I usually play after your turns - do you want to change something? - need anything else?)
I mean, I got tied and can't finish "tonight". You may wait, or if you have plans to play/not to play Mon-Tue, let me know.
Ivan

There's no problem by me if you can't finish your turns tonight(or even tomorrow night) - take your time.
One can always notify the Team if he needs extra time to play, so all know what's going on.

I can wait, don't worry - just do what you need to do(I adjust to play whenever is my time to play).

I did half 1445 AD now, French almost done (only one 12 size Marsel + few small left)
Zulu still do not want to give up Ngome.

Did you get France's 1 tile city?

Did you get France's 1 tile city?
No, AFAIK only Kelts and Zulus havw it.

Dear K-A, I think I prepare all to take Marseil next turn. Just bombard and tahe (use railroad bypass).
If something not clear from my picture [b]again/b] let me know. We have GL at Zululand.
I exousted and can't play anymore. I have no Idea what to do with all workers, and so on.
Looks that Coal plants do not make any difference...

I recommend that we rush a harbour in Strasbourg immediately. That will connect silks to our empire and solve some of our rioting problems.

Tsingtao should rush a galleon to take some troops to go over and wipe out the Spanish and Chinese.

The Iroquois should be after the French.

France or Japan (I forget which one) has a 1 tile city in the far SE corner of the map.

@ AdreanE : We can't because of resistace. But first thing to do is harbor.
How my picture and plan? Do you get an idea? Or you will defend K-A again?
@ Conehead It is Japan. We may take it. But for Zulus, I am afraid we have to have amphybious. I think major WW come from Zulu war. May be we quit from zulu and get Mariners in 10-12 turns? I think better kill France but 1 City is very far away.

So, what I'll do, is to hit the French - maybe make a false peace treaty to demand some cities on islands (and break the treaty right away?)

Whom we strike after France? Iroquis and Japan?

The Zulu won't give Ngome, no matter what - we may have to research AW.

btw: your plan for attacking Marseilles is logical.

I must see how close we're at domination, first, so I know what to keep.

EDIT: If the coal plants don't do any good, I'll sell them, so we don't have pollution bothering us - Mobilization gives us the extra shields, anyway.

"btw: your plan for attacking Marseilles is logical. "
I become paranoid after your attack Dehli. Do you see that Cossacks can strike Marsel now? However better to take it next turn...
I lost 4 cossaks in Galeon because of this Fregate...
Problem with false peace that we have MA, nobody will do it if we breake it.
However we are going to hit Iro anyway...

So, you agree with what I said and whom to attack next?

EDIT:Ok, I won't make false peace treaty, but I hope that the French capital won't jump to Brest(the 2-tile island). I'll see what cities they'll give.

btw: As for the Iroquis, we'll have to attack them next, otherwise, we have to attack from the opposite site(Vikings or England).

OK, do whatever you want. Trouble with iroques that Kelts build this stupid City at S Egypt... Also we are too weak at zululand. May be we leave zulu with Ngome only? AW not far away...
Good things to do: (after capture Marseilles): Sort out zulu and declare Kelts. Bring English in Alliance vs Kelts. (2-3 turns from now). Make false or real peace with France. Strike Kelts and connect south Egypt Cities. Declare Iroques. It will breake RoP, but we already lost RoP reputation somewhere.

Ok, I'll do that.

Pre-turn:
A lot of micro-management and worker movements. Sell a couple of coal plants, as they're useless in Mobilization.

IBT
Paris deposed to France(we lost an Infantry?) - That spoils a bit our plans of attacking Marseilles.

1455AD (1)
Drop science at 60%.
Bombard Marseilles - It takes 9 cossacks to retreat-win(Marseilles had 3 Riflemen, 1 cavalry), but I capture Marseilles and raze it to the ground.
Recapture Paris and raze it. Capture Cherbourg and raze it. Capture Rouen and keep it.
As requested, I capture Karakorum, and Zulu capital moves to Ngome: they wouldn't give up Ngome no matter what - So, now we need AW(a few marines) to take it.

Trade WM for 58g.

btw: now that I'm looking the Keltic island, it also has coal under it... :rolleyes:

1460AD (2)
Raze Poitiers and Toulouse.

IBT
The French unloaded a cavalry near Madrid - I killed it.

1465AD (3)
Capture Mauch Chunk and Oil Springs. Trade WM for 13g.

We learn Combustion >> Mass Production in 4 turns - I upgrade 7 galleons to transports and start a few destroyers to escort our transports.

I have 3 days to play my turns, and I'm very tired now, so I'll stop for today.

1) France will agree to give Bordeaux and Brest for Peace + some spare change.

2) We may want want to make peace with the Zulu.

3) I'm not sure whom we should attack next: sure, the Iroquis are next, but what after that? Maybe we make the alliance with England vs Kelts(as Ivan said), see if Japan will buy into the war with the Kelts and sneak attack Japan also?
Oh, never mind, Japan won't bite(our reputation is damaged): I'd say to just defend(attacking spare Keltic units that come on our way) from the side of England with our troops - we're weak at the west front -, and make our way to Japan and Kelts with our stronger eastern front?

The problem is that most of units on the East front won't have access to attack Kelts, as Japan is on their way, so clearly, Japan has to go.

Discuss again, please, as I'm tired to think clear now - I can always make the pre-turn useful, so don't take into much account the position of the troops(currently).

repiat again: after close wathc.
Good things to do at this turn: Sort out zulu (demand City and what they give). Make RoP with Kelts (offer good gpt), bring troops to Kelt City at S. Egypt and declare Kelts. Strike Kelts and connect south Egypt Cities. Bring English in Alliance vs Kelts now for Iron, say. It will help our south army. Only nextMake peace with France (demand their Cities, they also give huge GPT, may be better to take money and Bordo). Declare Iroques next turn. It will breake RoP, but we already lost RoP reputation somewhere.
Reduce Lux

Turnlog was difficult, but I sent few files during my play.
In addition I am sending my picture of war with French.
It is good illustration of "How to use Altelery Effeciently"
Circles (8 Art) show bombard position and date of capture Cities.
(rectangular is small 3 Artelery group).
Another important feature of strategy is capture Baqdade, as a port of
unload and railroad Baqdad - Lyons.
Unfortunately I loose 1 Galeon with 4 Cossacks IBT 1445-1450.
I finished arabs at 1420 AD and declare war to Franse without pause.
I bring Japan and Iroques at this war the same turn.
I rise Sci at max, and make intesive Lux-Res trade this year.
War with Zulu goes normally. To help I sign RoP with English at 1440.
I built pentagon in Madras.

I played 2 more turns, and I'll continue to play: I just went with our plan - I didn't read Ivan's edited post, as I was playing.
Anyway, I'll post the save and I'll play the remaining 5 more turns tomorrow.

Pre-turn
I make Peace with the Zulu and demand Umfolozi(they wouldn't give Ulanbatar).
I make Peace with the French and demand Bordeaux + Brest + WM + 33g.
I make Peace with the Aztecs, as they have a longbowman next to to Bordeaux(you can't know before the Peace with France, if the Aztecs had troops there). Anyway, the Aztecs have only their capital.
Trade WM for 5g.
Declare on Kelts. Sign MA with England against Kelts and gift England Steam Power + Nationalism, as part of the deal.
Capture Eborakum(Keltic) on our main island, along with a settler and 2 workers(4 workers total). I abandon 3 of our useless cities(so we don't have to worry about them), as we go to capture others, but we should be carful about NOT hitting Domination: I suggest to recommend CivAssist or MapStat EVERY TURN before you hit "Enter".

Declare on Iroquis, and as our rep is thrown away, I attack them as well:
We autoraze Akwesasne. We capture Tonawanda and Salamnca(keep it). We capture St.Regis on our home island.

IBT
Aztecs and England sign MA against Iroquois.
France and Kelts sign trade embargo against us: we get a "we love our king/zcharina day", and the war weariness gets away(only 1 unhappy citizen in a size 12 city!). We also get a palace expansion.

1470AD (4)
It seems that the peace treaties got us out of Mobilization, so I mobilize again.

We autoraze Cataractonium(Celtic), south of the former Egyptian cities.

Trade WM for 78g.

Rush a destroyer.

IBT
Japan destroyed the Aztecs.

1475AD (5)
Nothing - just railroads. Trade WM for 7g.

Guys, if you have any ideas, it's good to post them, don't be shy :)

We can't reach the core Keltic cities, of course, if we don't make war with Japan.
Idea: We can sign a RoP with Japan for furs - they won't agree for MA against the Kelts or MPP either -, rairoad through Japan's territory to reach the Kelts(of course, infantries will protect our workers as we advance), so our strong eastern Army can strike the Kelts(our weak western Army heals atm).
Then, we can keep our RoP with Japan, as we raze Keltic cities, and break it when it's time to also strike Japan?
This plan maybe will save us turns? Otherwise, we have to declare to Japan and slowly advance(although I could take 2-3 Japanase cities at next turn with the western Army).

btw: if we decide to strike Japan, I can soon send some units towards their 2 cities on that island near our core island.
Oh, Japan is paying us 74gpt for the resources/luxuries.

"I didn't read Ivan's edited post, as I was playing." you may write plaing now.
I make Peace with the French and demand Bordeaux + Brest + WM + 33g."
Did they offer gpt?
"Declare on Kelts. Sign MA with England against Kelts and gift England Steam Power + Nationalism, as part of the deal." Did they pay gpt?
I think RoP with Japan better than war. Watch if they strike us using RRoads.
Block potentially dangerous Cities.
We will have AW soon, send 1-2 transports outside main circle of islands to attack single tile Cities.
Reduce Lux

France gpt: didn't check, sorry.
England gpt: No.

I'll block the path from Japan's borders(to the east, of course) completely then, but we can't be sure whether a Keltic galleon will unload units behind that line, if we don't see it coming: there're some "dark" areas that we can't see, that is.
I'll transport some (foreing)workers from the FP island(we don't really need that many there: we can only road/railroad slowly to the western mountain-side, 1-2 tiles at a time, as there're no roads to railroad the "path" at 2-3 turns) to go and fortify in "dark" areas, so we have a view of what's going on there(otherwise we could have a sneack and surprising attack, if we don't see a foreing galleon coming).

I reduced lux at last turn, currently making around 74gpt.

I'll send 2 transports, and I'll escort them with destroyers while they're waiting for the marines to come(I wouldn't want to fortify them inside cities that may flip, so the destroyers should protect them).
If I remember well, we learn MP next turn(?), so we could have some battleships(change the pre-built from destroyers: we cannot afford rushing) after a while.

Will look at save now. Good idea to send workers. Baqdad will not flip, you may leave some transports there for ship chain. I think you may send 2 empty transport without escort to attack 1 tile Keltic City later. But if you have spare destroyer why not?

Our entire western Army is fortified outside cities(with the exception of a few infantries that protect cities with barracks/cities we possibly need), and MANY units are fortified in that city with the cossack-Army(they were injured: healed now).

Another idea: I think it'd be good to leave a fortified worker for each tile we railroad inside Japan's territory and here's why;
a) Japan won't be able to use the railroad network for stupid/unecessary AI moves, that could block our cossacks/Army from using the railroads - I want my units to have the ability to strike/blitz and be able to fortify them at the same turn at a city with barracks(if possible), so they can heal and I can use them again the turn after.
b) We can also use the railnetwork to also attack JAPAN, after we deal with the Kelts.

I checked save and see, that RoP with Japan also slow. They agree for RoP for Fur.
I think, we should sign RoP, bring artelery and cossacs at position and strike Japans Capitals. I will send a picture soon. why you do not use Artelery? Your position of army looks dangerous. Looks that you become paranoid about Flips.

The position of the Army might be dangerous, but I really don't like flips. Don't worry about it - only Japan could strike there, but it won't do it - these cities are crappy cities, and we only have to lose from a flip.

I used the Army to fortify/"fight" around 7 resistors in each big Iroquois city, but only at the first turn when I captured the cities.

I do use artillery.

So, we're going to attack Japan with RoP? Might be better this way, and maybe it'll save us some game-turns, than waiting to reach the Kelts.

Here is a plan. Sing RoP with Japan for fur.
Bring 9 Artelery and Cossacs and armies at
9 A positions, and 4-5 Inf to strike position.
I think We may capture 3-4 Japan Cities at first strike,
with bombardment. South Army should care about chinise Cities,
Vikings can strike anytime.

I think that Japan and Kelts are really busy right now making settlers to claim the unsettled area - I have no idea how strong Japan currently is, but we'll find out soon.

I hope that it won't take around 9-10 cossacks to capture the big cities(Kyoto - Tokyo - Satsuma), as it was the case with Marseilles despite the bombard. I wish that this time our units will have an easier time, after the bombardment.
I also wish to capture the 3-4 cities within the first strike, because I need the workers from the razed cities - I'll only keep Kyoto(Bach's, Smith's), if all goes well. We'll see.

Ivan, those Japanese cities in jungle will take us some turns to capture/raze them.

Plan looks good. If you can, rush some galleons on the southern coast so we do not have to sail all the way around to get to the 1 tile island cities once we reach marines. Japan has a 1 tile island city. Try to get it from them. The city is pretty isolated and will take us a couple of turns to reach it.

@conehead: yes, I'll demand Japan's 1-tile island.

btw: we're short on money, as we have cut some trades, or we plan to cut another one - with Japan paying 74gpt, that's about what is our current gpt.

We now have transports, and none galleon: every 2 turns, a transport can leave from the FP continent and unload units on a harbor on the big continent, so we can have reinforcements ready for war, every 2 turns.
btw: a transports' capacity is 6 in this game.

I'll make sure to send 1-2 transports towards the 1-tile islands.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Ivan_SG005_AD1495_01.SAV

Pre-turn
Sign RoP with Japan, gift them Furs for the deal.

IBT
Japan demands Electricity: of course I give it to them, with all my heart and soul! :D

We now have other problems, as barb camps started to spread along the "dark" tiles, and a warrior enters the borders of Alexmanistan: the barbs also use our railroads, and although they're not a threat, they could take away our gold if we don't watch them closely(a barb horse could easily walk into an undefended city).

1480AD (6)
Lower science to 70%, Mass Production next turn.

We autoraze Allegheny(Iroquois).

Trade WM for 6g, and see another barb camp threatening our cities: 3 camps in total. I hate it when I attack a barb warrior on desert(that entered our borders) with a cossack and lose 1hp... I must transfer a few workers quickly, so we see the "dark" tiles. I destroy a dangerous barb camp.

Rush a harbor in Strasbourg.

Railroading through Japan and moving artilleries, infantries and cossacks.

IBT
Another barb warrior enters the borders of Amiens, I kill him(next turn), 3/4hp cossack goes 1/4. :mad:

1485 (7)
Mass Production >> Amphibious War in 4.

A Viking pike/settler comes out of Malmo probably aimimg to settle where we razed the Iroquois cities: sign RoP with the Vikings for Silks, so we can continue roading/railroading towards their cities, probably reduce a sneack attack, and sign now before I break the RoP with Japan.
Our troops are in position to strike, although we need more units, as we a bunch of barb camps to watch for and also there's Ise(Japanese) behind our lines and with 2-3 cavs could capture some undefended cities. I also don't have cossacks right now on the FP continent to attack the Japanese cities, and have many workers inside their borders as well as the borders of the core Japanese cities.

We raze Grand River. I disperse another barb camp.

IBT
England and Iroquois sign Peace Treaty.

1490AD (8)
We raze Centralia, and now there's only Viking cities on the western mountains/deserts.

Declare on Japan:
Raze Ise(the city behind our lines), Hakodate(on the FP continent) Niagara Falls, Nara and Satsuma.
Capture Osaka, Cattaraugus, Tokyo(we might want to keep it as it has Leo's, but it's too late now? The Team can decide what to do: I keep it for now), Kyoto(hear what it has: Oracle, Great Wall, Sistine, Shakespear's, J.S.BACH'S, SMITH's - it has many resistors though) and Nara .

We lose 8 cossacks to do all that(yes, I had bombard the cities with artijleries), and many cossacks are injured/red-lined - half of them were defeated on picking Japanese cavalries OUTSIDE cities, can you believe it? :crazyeye: I mean, the cities were easier to take/raze!

We must be careful now, because the Kelts can attack from the side of Kyoto.

I always traded WM, but it was for some change, so I didn't mentioned it in the previous turns.

The Vikings don't want to trade WM: just from curiosity, I offer them Wines for their WM. I suspected that there might be another 1-tile island, in a few "black tiles" near Brest, but I was wrong. Anyway...

IBT
The Kelts want Peace Treaty, although I dindn't fight with them at all until now: I refuse from the time being, but we can reconsider if we want: just to know, they agree for a RoP along with Peace - Hmm...it's very tempting... :rolleyes: We can decide when I post my save: I'd take the deal and do what Japan experienced!

We got a "we love the zcharina day", mainly from having Bach's I guess. We get 3 palace expansions and complete our palace.

1495AD (9)
Lower science to 60%, AW in 2 turns.

AutoRaze Matsuyama on the FP continent. Disperse a barb camp.
Capture Kagoshima.

My PC has another of it's often crashes, reload and continue playing(after the autoreboot): luckily, I had saved until that moment.

Raze Edo. Kill a Keltic pair/settler.

The last 2 cities cost us 5 cossacks to take, but we "cleared" the area.

Capture Teotihuacan without loses, after bombard.

Capture Shimonoseki on our core-cities island.


Ok, I want some time with my family now(we're all together for Christmass), and I'll stop playing now.

Points:

1) Keep roading/railroading towards the Viking cities, and INSIDE them: we have RoP.
2) Remember to DEMAND Saporo(1-tile Japanese island), before you make any other deals: of course, Japan won't talk right now - maybe they'll talk next turn. Anyway, for good measure, I have unloaded some units on the 2-cities Japanese island(near our home-island), so, strike there first and see what Japan offers after that. The units there could also destroy France(although I've seen a French caravel going somewhere - maybe it has a settler).
3) Maybe it'd be good to accept Peace + RoP with the Kelts and do the same as we did with Japan.
4) I have many injured units inside BASRA: most of them will heal next turn. Another SoD is near Kyoto and Teotihuacan. I still have infantries blocking our lines from the war with Japan, but we don't need them there anymore.
5) I left some infantries fortified in other cities, because of barb camps: I donn't know anymore if it's a good idea what I said earlier for seen the "dark" tiles: I think we just fortify a unit in those cities and no matter what the barbs do, we won't have to deal with them while we're in war - we need our cossacks elsewhere!
6) Some cossacks are fortified inside Atlanta and next to it, (near FP) to heal - they were injured from attacking the last Japanese cities there.
7) I also have some transports on their way, and 2 transports west of Bangalore should go from the other side of the big continent, aiming the 1-tile islands with marines.
8) I also had 2 more tranports in production(near the former Egyptian cities): they should aim to go to the island with the Chinese/Spanish, etc...
9) Our treasury is better now: do we want to keep researching or stop researching with AW, and rush units? I prefer the later.

Most important: Ivan and conehead, we own 40% of the world: I suggest to PROPOSE to abandon some cities, so we don't hit Domination, because, sometimes, someone can forget to check it, while he makes war-plans. We could abandon, for example, Osaka, Cattaraugus, Kagoshima, a couple of the former Iroquois cities, NOW.

Good luck.

"Japan demands Electricity: of course I give it to them, with all my heart and soul!"

Thats mean your were open to Japan. In fact this is bad, I hope we kill them before RParts, but vikings have a chanse.

"Ivan and conehead, we own 40% of the world: I suggest to PROPOSE to abandon some cities, so we don't hit Domination, because, sometimes, someone can forget to check it, while he makes war-plans. We could abandon, for example, Osaka, Cattaraugus, Kagoshima, a couple of the former Iroquois cities, NOW."
Mapstat says that we about 1000 tiles before domination.
May be my program wrong? Better to keep Cities as our "frieds" do not block our communication, but check Mapstat regulary.
Certanly we should keep small island Cities like Hovd, Edu, Bordo...
I have not heard Tomoyo long time, he is up, actually...
My experience shows that he did not follow recomendations.
Reality, however, is that we may finish very soon if plan Transpot/Mariners trajectory wisely.
P.S. I had discussion with mad-bax about Coal plants. Looks they works now.

Thats mean your were open to Japan. In fact this is bad, I hope we kill them before RParts, but vikings have a chanse.

I think that Japan was wide open to me ;) I didn't want to risk war at that moment, before everything was perfect as I had decided my war-plan(a bit complicated :crazyeye: ) and was going to execute it next turn.
@Ivan, Japan has 4 cities left, it's almost DESTROYED :D : , and I had 1 more turn to play(I played 9 turns), so don't worry about them:
2 Japanese cities on that island near our home-island(I already unloaded units there), Saporo(1-tile island) and their capital which is their only city left on the big continent.

I almost destroyed them inside 2 turns. Take a look at the save. No need need to worry for Japan, but make plans for Kelts and Vikings(we can destroy Engalnd and Zulu capital for a warm-up on our way to the west).

Beware though, if Kyoto or Tokyo flip, take them back immediately, ESPECIALLY Kyoto, that has Smith's(more gpt) and Bach's(happiness boost).

Now, if Vikings learn RP, I bet that they won't built more than a couple of infantries: they're really busy trying to settle the land.

All those new cities the Vikings make we can destroy in 1 turn and strike them the next turn(if not the same), I'd say, that may be in less than 10 turns from now, as I really expect us to destroy the Kelts completely in no more than 5 turns from now, IF we sign Peace + RoP and do the same as we did to Japan.

I'd suggest to make peace with the Kelts ASAP and demand RoP: they'll accept it(I could have done that myself in my last turn).


Mapstat says that we about 1000 tiles before domination.
May be my program wrong? Better to keep Cities as our "frieds" do not block our communication, but check Mapstat regulary.

Ok, more cities give us more gold, but should be really carefull about it: we're playing with the fire here, if we lose from Domination.

Please, read my 'Points' at the end of my turnlog, and feel free to comment on it and/or add new ideas.

If we play smart, this game will be over soon.

The workers on the FP island are fortified near Memphis.

I can't look at save right now, but I belive that game almost done: I hope 25 turns as a max. May be RoP with Celts finish game faster. I know, however that any next war takes longer time before negotiation may be possible. May be we strike them harder and they give up 1 tile City? It is long way there...
Did you send transport to Ngome (zulu)?
Cross posted. Edit:
I read your points, for me all out of questions.
The only things to discuss is peace with Kelts.
I did , and still not sure that it is a good idea.
Did you finish or will pkay 1 more turn?

I'm finished, as I have passed the 3-day limit now. Yesterday, I wanted some time to see my sister that came back for vacation, so I played 4 turns, but it took me a while before I had decided what strategy to follow(I wanted to gain the best possible result).

2 transports are near Bangalore(if I remember correctly), and 4 more transfer units on the big continent: we may want to send 2 transports from the later to go towards Ngome/1-tile islands(as they have some way to: they have to circle around the continent), and replace them with the transports near Bangalore?

I'd just sign Peace with the Kelts + RoP, railroad and KEEP positions with cossacks along the railroad network inside Kelts, strike them when everyone is in position.
I'd also BLOCK the tiles around Kyoto and the last city I took(don't remember the name) with Infantries, so NO Keltic or Viking unit can pass from there, but delay with ships/caravels.
btw: we may want to KILL that Keltic Bowman/Settler on the mountain, before we make Peace + RoP.

We can do just that with the Vikings later, as we already have a RoP with them, and we give them 2 luxuries. In this case(Vikings case)), I'd concentrate to railroads again, and strike FIRST their CORE cities and then pick up their new-settled cities easily :lol:

Of course, that's just some ideas that I say here: the Team will decide what to do and what's best to do.

EDIT: When we're going to strike the Kelts, don't forget to bring in the 2 Western cossack-Armies from the other side - we also have some troops in that (former-Zulu) city.

EDIT2:btw: new reinforcements come quickly from the FP continent, so we really shouldn't have any problem in executing any of our plans - we still have a good force on the eastern front, despite our loses. Just read the turnlog and see where I left the units fortified.

And we could always RUSH 1-2 transports from a coastal city on the other side(southern side) of the big continent, so we can get to the 1-tile islands faster.

Also, we can rush the 2 transports already in production on the FP continent, to go towards the Spanish/Chinese island. I think we could shut down research with AW.

@Tomoyo: you're next - do you have any questions for me that you want them to be answered(since I've posted the last save)?
Please, feel free to ask any questions to me(regarding my turnlog/ideas) and to the Team for the plan we should follow.

Also, post your ideas/comments, because every idea/comment we think is valuable for the outcome.

Okay:

1) I think the last one-tile island belongs to Japan, so we will have to demand it. We don't have to worry about any other one-tile islands. (Actually, on second thought, we'll have amphibious war soon, so it doesn't matter.

2) Keltoi are obviously next big target, since we are already at war. Then, should we go around the continent, killing everything in our way?

3) Should I raze the high risk (flip) cities, to stay a good distance away from the domination limit and eliminate the flip risk?

4) Is that a ship chain I see? I'm not sure if it is against the GOTM rules (I know it's against many) to use it. However, it is also good as a regular shipping thing. :)

5) Are we staying in Mobilization for the rest of the game? (Because it is really tempting to build ToE once we get Scietific Method) I'm not that familiar with Mobilization, so I don't know if we can build wonders.

I also see the game is almost over. The ROP rape plan sounds good, do you know if that is an exploit? The vikings will be busy for a while settling so we just do not have to worry about them. Just go for the Keoti, kill them, then jump onto the Vikings.

Okay:

1) I think the last one-tile island belongs to Japan, so we will have to demand it. We don't have to worry about any other one-tile islands. (Actually, on second thought, we'll have amphibious war soon, so it doesn't matter.

2) Keltoi are obviously next big target, since we are already at war. Then, should we go around the continent, killing everything in our way?

3) Should I raze the high risk (flip) cities, to stay a good distance away from the domination limit and eliminate the flip risk?

4) Is that a ship chain I see? I'm not sure if it is against the GOTM rules (I know it's against many) to use it. However, it is also good as a regular shipping thing. :)

5) Are we staying in Mobilization for the rest of the game? (Because it is really tempting to build ToE once we get Scietific Method) I'm not that familiar with Mobilization, so I don't know if we can build wonders.
1) Better to demand, any separate mariners expedition takes time.
2) we are at MA with English vs Kelts and have paied big price for that. Though RoP break is allowed, I think it is bad idea to make peace with Kelts for that , but up to you. [I did not saw very last save yet].
4) ship chain is allowed, I checked, I used it anyway, I think we can akt as steam roll moving clockwise.
3) I normaly disband "brunch" cities that outside of main stream of troops. it is sensible idea to keep some Inf near City that risk to flip.
5) we can't Build ToE at Mobilisation, but I am sure, that game will be over befor tanks anyway. I think we may research Flight at 40-50%, just in case. In our mode mobilisation helps.

Bring workers to build RRoad, with enough Cossacks to strike you can move very far in 1 turn.

Good luck.
Ivan

If we can demand Japan's island, why not? It'll save turns, as marines are slow to go to "normal" war.

Tomoyo, you can raze cities if you want to at the first strike, but you have to have a plan so the enemy's cultural borders isn't an obstacle for you to attack other cities - either you arrange your units and attack accordingly, or you capture cities, hold them for 1-2 turns(until you capture the next target) and raze them.

We certainly must be VERY careful not to hit Domination now, that the game reaches it's end. Just don't keep Keltic cities(when you're finished with your attack), and there's no problem (I believe).

The RoP rape is allowed under SGOTM rules - same with the ship chaining(although with Magellan's and 4 transports rather than galleon's, I didn't need ship chaining in my turns).

I think we should stay in mobilization: there's no reason to change it: every single one unit will help us to finish faster and save some turns - we certainly don't want a slow advance at this stage.

Every turn counts: I'd sign Peace + RoP with Keltoi and vanish them from the face of the Earth in a couple of turns.

Oh, I had forgot our MA with England against the Kelts: we can always defend with our 2 cossack-Armies if England attacks, but even if they capture some undefended cities, who cares at this stage? - Our Western Army is strong and can hammer everything and everyone in a very few turns, if we play smart: don't forget that we can transport reinforcements soon.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

Edit: England only has 3 core cities that're exausted from the war with the Kelts - they're too weak to do us any harm, IMHO. We have some infantries near the former Zulu cities, and 2 cossack Armies, so we can surely kill spare units IF England declares for breaking the RoP.

I've played five turns:

Pre-flight: Take the Kelt settler pair. Nab some Japanese workers while I’m at it. Kyoto and Teotihuacán blocked. Make peace with Keltoi for ROP.

IT: Zulu and Keltoi sign an alliance versus England. Entremont completes Universal Suffrage.

1500AD: Bomb a spearman with artillery just in case it pulls a :spear: :rolleyes: Set up block of Viking settlers.

IT: Iroquois and France sign peace. WLTCD ends. (WW?)

1505AD: Destroy the Iroquois. There are a lot of annoying Japanese cavalry killing random Cossacks and infantry. Attack on Keltoi ready barring some surprise raids by the Japanese.

IT: Spain and Keltoi sign alliance against England.

1510AD: Sapporo (Japanese one-tile city) drops a pop, so I can take the Japanese capital and not have the palace jump there. Do so. Troops in position for a semi-ROP rape (Only targeting two cities) Declare war on Keltoi. Entremont razed.

ARGH!!! I forgot about the SoD in Basra… :wallbash:

1515AD: Attack and raze some more Keltoi cities.

IT: Spain and Keltoi sign an embargo against us… I should have listened to the Foreign advisor! They were evil! :cry: ;) Avignon flips! :cry:

1520AD: Capture Mohacs and Sun Tzu’s Art of War. Sign peace with Japan for Sapporo. (One tile city) Now the only one tile city left belongs to Keltoi.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Ivan_1520AD.jpg

Can't look at save now:

Will Japan agree for Peace + Saporo? Then we can re-declare soon at Japan.

How is going on with the transports for the 1-tile islands? If they need many turns to go there, I'd say to start 1-2 transports in southern cities(big continent), and rush them the next turn. Maybe it'd be better if we rush 1 transport from the side of the Keltic island, and 1 transport near Ngome.
We also should rush the 2 transports in production on the FP continent(if we haven't done so), to go after the Spanish/Chinese island.

I don't know what happened with the Kelts: maybe we should target more cities when we had a RoP(like, 6-7 cities for a start, but that needed to wait for 1-2 more turns for railroads? ). Anyway, we can still destroy them, right?
Oh, I see the turnlog: the SoD from Basra wasn't in action.


Edited

Way you stop research at flight? Some bombers may help to support of attack Islands...

If I don't post again today, happy New Year's Eve!

We have Sapporo and peace with the Japanese. I was trying to rush a transport on the other side, but I forgot about the zulu city. I will finish today.

If I don't post again today, happy New Year's Eve!
So am I. Writing year report now... may get in time...

SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Ivan_SG005_AD1550_01.SAV)

I played eleven turns to end on an round date.

1520AD (cont): Maximize research, Flight in 4 turns.

1525AD: I have to attack with a wounded Cossack, but we raze three cities, with only one casualty. Get a leader.

1530AD: Our rep is toast anyway, so I declare war on Japan. Bombard a barbarian just for the heck of it. Spend some money rushing transports and troops. Turns getting really long, too many units. :crazyeye:

1535AD: Destroy the Japanese. Declare war on Zulus. Destroy the Zulus. Declare war on the English. Destroy the English.

IT: French want us to get out. I refuse. War. Flight obtained.

1540AD: Bad RNG luck on France island and Kelt one tile island make us wait one more turn. An injured spearman defeated a Marine! :lol:

1545AD: Destroy the French. ROP rape the Vikings. Kelts have no more cities, but are not dead. Settler on a boat!!! :mad: Find a Keltic caravel with a transport.

IT: Complete the Heroic Epic.

1550AD: Declare war on the Chinese. Sink the Keltoi ship. Keltoi are now dead.

Notes:
- Vikings should be pushed off big continent next turn.
- You should be able to win in less than five turns
- Rush Cossacks in Umfolozi every turn.
- Bombers have lethal bombard, right?
- Feel free to throw injured troops into the fray. Speed is what matters.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Ivan_1550AD.jpg

Looks like victory is near. Adrian finish it off.

Nice jo there, Tomoyo.

@AdiranE: don't forget to check Mapstat/CivAssist to see how close we're in Domination, and if needed, get rid of some cities.

EDIT: Rush transports and marines to destroy the island sooner, maybe on the big continent as well(shut down research if we're short of money).

New year in Moscow 1 hour from now. Fireworks already...

Here it's 2 hours away, but the party has begun! Best wishes to everyone!

I still have 9 hours...

I have it.

I play on a Mac. As far as I know mapstat doesn't work with Macs.

Could someone else check the mapstat numbers and post them.

Thanks

I'll play tommorrow.

Edit: I think I will rush some airports. That will let me airlift in several cossacks each turn. Should be faster than rushing regular cossacks in Umfolozi.

Adrian

My mapstat says 939 tiles to domination.
Airport at Umfolozi is a very good idea.
Good luck

Also, rush bombers if you can, and send them to umfolozi.

Rush by disbanding units that can't be tranported.

Final Turnlog

Preturn

Rush airports at Umfolozi and several other cities.
When I run out of cash I disband a few units that will never make the front line to build a few more airports.

kill barb threatening Basra.

Move troops to falun

1555AD airlift cossacks to Umfoluzi

1555AD take Kalumar, Falun, linkping, Goteborg, Upsala

1560AD destroy Chinese move cossacks into postition

1565AD destroy Vikings and then Spanish

Conquest Victory - 2934 Firaxis points - game over on the IBT


I have uploaded the 1565 pre win sav and the 1570 post win sav. Enjoy

Great job team. I can't wait for the next SGOTM.

Good job team. Since this was a large map with a variant, I think we got a reasonable time. :)

Congratulation, team.
will we play next game together?
I personnaly wish to continue games with AdreanE, he has defferent style of playing a from both mine and conehead's. I recon that our main strategical line was driven by his ideas. He also perfect in "strategical micromanagement" as he think not only abuot current max of City production, but also about future development. However I was disagree with some of his plans [for example 40 turns gambit of Metalurgy and very slow war preparation and war planing]. I think that if we woud find consensus we may win faster.
Conehead have played excelent himself, but I think team leader should provide more intensive supervision.
Could anybody write a review of our game?

A very enjoyable game, I must say, and a very interesting start/situation: I hadn't played such a variant in the past and what made it more interesting, was the superb map designed by mad-bax(keep the good work, fellow Civ'er and congratulations for your maps!).

Well done to all of you, Team-members, it was a joy to play with you.

btw: enough Team-members from other Teams are also playing regularly SG's all the time(often variants), so they know each other very well and have great experience - this factor may play an important role in their performance, IMHO(just mention it).

EDIT: IMHO, the game rules for GL's were awesome: this way, the "luck" factor is almost eliminated, as in previous SGOTM's some Teams rushed Wonders/Forbidden Palace and 'got far away' and became very powerful, where some other Teams couldn't get a GL after some 30-40 Elite(or more!) wins :crazyeye: