Sure, if we can get Engineering and still have all the cash we need for Chivalry and upgrades, then go for it.

There's a lot of work to do to achieve a conquest in this game, with several land masses. We might do it with Knights if we can slow the AI down, but that's a tall order with this many civs researching and trading, so my guess is we'll finish it with Cavalry. As to dates, Mil Tradition is likely to arrive in about 60-70 turns? We ought to be able to clean up in 20 to 30 turns after that, so as a complete guess I'll go for around 1250 AD. But then again, we can see that Peanut hasn't finished at 1450 AD, so what do I know! :hmm: I s'pose as we reduce the opposition the tech pace will slow, so maybe my MT estimate is early.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
Thanks Alan, I'm feeling much better now!! :banana: Sorry I misunderstood. Hope you finished GOTM 37 victoriously! :goodjob:

If we think we are about to obtain Chivalry, perhaps we should use the worker on the Iron Hill to road north instead of creating a colony and connecting it. Then, we are free to get Chivalry anytime it is convienent and we can control when we begin the upgrades. That means we won't need another worker for a while and can keep pushing Horses and Galleys. :whipped:

I presume the idea is to get close to the 66% and then start razing cities. Is there more to it than that? What kind of date do you anticipate us to win? Where will we be in regards to tech?
Getting to the domination limit is for maximizing Jason score. As I understand our mission, best conquest date is the goal. They are not mutually exclusive but, imho, we should add cities that we conquer as long as they are productive. What we should try to avoid are cities that become "extra baggage" because they are so corrupt, although some of them may provide workers and such, productivity is what we really need. I guess what I'm trying to say is we should not keep cities just to have additional territory. :crazyeye:

I agree with Alan that we will probably finish with Cavalry. If we get the chance, we should consider Leo's for upgrading, and if necessary, resource "management". :D

EDIT - Spelling and Grammar?? :rolleyes:

Well done Alan on your GOTM 37 finish. I just read your spoiler. I really need to get those false wars going in my games more. By slowing the tech pace you were taking on muskets & rifles at a time when I was facing infantry.

BTW, I like leif's idea to leave the iron w/o a colony for now. It allows us to build more horses even after we get Chivalry.

Yes. I didn't like to raise the fact that we shouldn't hook up our iron yet. I was worried that I'd be seen as lecturing/hectoring/teaching granny to suck eggs :hmm:

And you are right about the domination limit. Forget it. During my gotm 37 conquest run I kept that as my fallback, so I held onto cities that I didn't need to, and grew cultural borders that turned out to be unnecessary. I don't think that had a major impact on my date, but it can't have helped.

But keeping and developing some cities may be paramount, even when they are non-productive. Remember that the enemy has speed 3 or 6 or 9 on open roads but is reduced to 1 or 2 or 3 on roads inside your cultural boundaries. The difference is even more acute when rails are in place - infinite speed in open country. Also, as soon as you leave wasteland the barbs are there. And in my GOTM 37, even unproductive cities were building me cavalry, 'cos that's where the cash rushes happened while my core cities took three or four turns per unit.

Hey, before my turns are going to be played feel free to lecture/hecture/or suck eggs. Whatever floats your boat, dude. I sometime will miss the obvious stuff when I'm trying to over think things. Thanks for te info BTW. As a guess, by looking at our oponents scores and dates, I'd say that they had better luck with the AI settling on the Russian Mainland than we did, and have gained an extra city or two.

But just remember its not how fast you get the first city it how fast you get the last one.

We've built a strong capital city and we did not overbuild warriors and archers. We're at size 12 and running 0% lux because we built a marketplace, temple and have 2 wonders there.

@Alan, don't hold back and never feel like your lecturing, even if we have differing views on an issue. That's what I love about SG's is learning how other people play and view the game.

Yes. I didn't like to raise the fact that we shouldn't hook up our iron yet. I was worried that I'd be seen as lecturing/hectoring/teaching granny to suck eggs :hmm:
I hope I have not caused you to feel you must bite your tongue. If so, I apologize. I believe the key to our success is in saying what we think, although I sometimes feel uncomfortable doing it. Certainly, that is what I learn from and it makes me try that much harder to live up to the play of the rest of you. A spirited discussion makes it more enjoyable for me, (look at some of the looney ideas we've come up with, some even worked) even if it proves me wrong. I learn from you guys how and why something can be done better. Look at SGOTM03, I had no idea what was going on for quite some time, but it all came together in the end, miraculously. :crazyeye: I even understood most of it. Please keep me on my toes and challenge me.
But keeping and developing some cities may be paramount, even when they are non-productive. Remember that the enemy has speed 3 or 6 or 9 on open roads but is reduced to 1 or 2 or 3 on roads inside your cultural boundaries. The difference is even more acute when rails are in place - infinite speed in open country. Also, as soon as you leave wasteland the barbs are there. And in my GOTM 37, even unproductive cities were building me cavalry, 'cos that's where the cash rushes happened while my core cities took three or four turns per unit.
Yes, I agree. When we have a reason to keep it, we should. If we don't, then we shouldn't be afraid to abandon or raze it. I can also think of situations where we may need to keep a city for a short period of time, say a city we capture with a Rax that we need until we capture one further along. Once its usefulness has passed and it becomes a burden, we shouldn't worry about it. :mischief:

Just so you know I will be playing tonight or tomorrow morning. Who is doing the first spoiler?

I might be able to throw something together if you don't have the time

Just so you know I will be playing tonight or tomorrow morning. Who is doing the first spoiler?

I might be able to throw something together if you don't have the time
Well, I've done most of the previous Xteam ones, so it's high time someone else had a crack at the Creative Writing prize. And a volunteer is worth ten pressed men ...

SGOTM 05 – First Spoiler

Xteam: (Kings of the Frozen Tundra – A.K.A Kings of Spam)

Rotation:
AlanH –Finder of Maps
Capt. Buttkick – Goodie Hut Guru
DJMGator13 – Barb Defender
leif erikson – Barb Finder
Mistfit – AI Finder

We start our journey with our band of X-men buried hip deep in snow looking for a place to call home. This, of course, is cause for much discussion. We almost ran into trouble from the start when our scout came down with a case of frostbite on his toes from waiting around for the leaders to decide which direction to move. (49 posts, 11 pic’s, and 62 smilies later a course of action is decided). Our scout heads West to the high mountain and low and behold spots a herd of Yak that has made its home in a semi habitable spot west of the mountain. Smoke signals are sent from the mountaintop to our settler and work crew that a city spot has been found.
In 3000 BC (the year of the Yeti) Moscow is founded.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Xteam_3000BC.jpg
After starting a fire in the capital building it was decided that our scout was warm enough and should be out scouting around looking for neighbors and goodie huts.

Goodie Hut results:
AlanH 3700BC – Maps
AlanH 3250BC – Maps
AlanH 3050BC – Maps (no more goodie hut popping for Alan)
Capt. Buttkick 2850BC – Pottery (that’s more like it)
Capt. Buttkick 2670BC – Ceremonial Burial (with Scout)
Capt. Buttkick 2670BC – Maps (with Warrior)

From here we worked diligently for centuries getting Moscow up and running smoothly and efficiently readying ourselves to meet the rest of the world

Exciting Events:

1450BC - Built the Colossus in Moscow
750BC – leif meets the Indians
710BC – Mistfit meets the Egyptians
670BC – Mistfit meets the Spanish
610BC – Mistift meets the Arabic people
590BC – Mistfit meets everyone else

Research:

2850BC: Pottery – Goodie Hut

2670BC: CB – Goodie Hut

1950BC: Writing – Self-Taught

1300BC:Map Making – Self-Taught

1175BC: Warrior Code – Self-Taught

1025BC:Wheel – Self-Taught

775BC: Horse Back –Self Taught

670BC:
CoL – India
Math – India
Masonry – Spain
Mysticism – Spain
IW – Spain

590BC:
Philo – Arab
Lit – Arab
Poly – Aztec
Currency – France

570BC:
Construction - America

670BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Before1.jpg

570BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/After.jpg
A very productive Century!

So this leaves our intrepid band of X-men with knowledge of the world and all of its inhabitants. Now, you are going to have to wait and see what we do with this knowledge. :evil:

How does that sound?

That's great, Mistfit. I can sit back and enjoy the output from a real writer now :goodjob:

I'm sure the facts are correct, so if everyone's happy we can post it and read the rest of them.

If you let me know I'll post it.

Excellent job Misfit!! :goodjob:

Let's see what the others are up to? :mischief:

Well thats 3. I'm going to consider that a majority. If gator or the Capt. have issues with it I can always edit :D

Edit: What a bummer. No one else has posted a spoiler yet :(

Have you guys DL'ed the new MapStat? I'm a bit behind the times I think it came out the 1st of Dec. I like the new additions like culture and city count!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/NewMapstat.jpg
I think it's kinda funny that France is the only one ahead of us in culture.

Spoiler sound good.

Could our high culture be why no other civ has settled on our island?

I did notice that 2 other cities have been planted on the island to the East of us. One French and one Kelt. So they are getting closer.

Help!! I'be been trying to get the game to work but it keeps crashing. I can load the game no problem. I can look around no problem. But once I go to the diplo screen using the little tab in the lower right hand side "d" and pull up Joan it boots me out of the game no errors no warning or anything. When I'm looking around I see the proper Resourses. I can pull up some of the civs through diplo with no problem but the first time I pull up France the screen where her cute little face should be is black or all mussed up and the second time I do it it throws me out of civ alltogether. What am I doing wrong? I'll wait until morning in hopes that you can help.

Did you run M-B's script to copy some leaderhead Flics for this game? If you haven't then that's a sure-fire way to crash the game in the F4 screen.

BTW: In the spoiler you didn't mention that we built the Lighthouse, and I thin kwe founded Moscow before 3000 BC.

Would I be getting any of the leaderhead faces? The one that Has booted me off 2 times now is france and that's an orginal AI. Can I write the MB's stuff again? I obviously was able to use F4 last turnset. I don't understand what's wrong?

Note: The Moscow date is wrong it should have read 3750BC. I did not mention the GL because it was built after we reached the ancient age. Do you want it added?

Have you done as Alanh asked? You need to download the batch file attached to >>POST 225<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2406569&postcount=225)

Unzip it in the root of the Civilization install - the folder with civilization3.exe in it. Then double click on it. If you put it in the wrong folder you will get an error about missing files. If it works you will just get "1 file copied" repeated a few times and then a message from the author :p

Good Morning Misfit. I had exactly the same problem and M-B's batch file fixed the problem. Good luck.

The problem is specific to Japan, France, Iroquois and China. If they are currently selected to appear in the F4 screen then it will crash on opening. If they don't appear in the F4 screen initially then it will open OK, but when you try to switch to them it will crash.

>>>HERE<<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Xteam_SG005_AD350_01.SAV) is the save.
A very uneventfull turnset (unlike the last one)

Got everything back to normal on the game no crashes today!

Pre Turn:
Go through the tedious process of micro managing our immense holdings...yep it looks Good

IBT:
A barb impales himself on the spear guarding our worker

Turn 1 (260AD)
Move our 2 archers next to the northern Barb Camp
Start Go north east of the Iron (If memory serves me correctly making the colony will create an instant road for us)

IBT:
Moscow Horse to Horse
Indians building Sistine

Turn 2 (270AD)
The world, or most of it anyway, learns chivalry
Kill of 2 barbs on the Northern tip no promo's +25 gold

IBT

Turn 3 (280AD)
Kill off a few more barbs and one camp, no promos do a little mild exploration
Buy Chivalry from the Keltoi for 280 gold and WM

IBT
Moscow Horseman to Horseman

Turn 4 (290AD)
move a bit

IBT

Turn 5 (300AD)
Zzzz...

IBT
Moscow Horseman to horseman
Our borders expand

Turn 6 (310AD)
nada

IBT
Yup you guesses it Moscow Horse to horse

Turn 7 (320AD)
Clean out another barb camp get a promo and 25gold

IBT

Turn 8 (330AD)
Starting to bring troops back to Moscow for the big upgrade

IBT
Horse to horse

Turn 9 (340AD)

IBT

Turn 10 (350AD)
Nothing

Pass Down Report: Please check with Joan of France to see if it's only my deck that's mussed up.
Our Army consists of
1 worker
2 Warriors
2 Archers
2 Spear
7 Horses
5 Galleys

I think we should create one more horse, then pop a worker send it over to hook the iron. Convert them to knights and head off to gain some new ground. Wow I just noticed that Bombay and Calcutta are owned by America now.

Looking good Mistfit. It sounds as if the peace and tranquility are about to be broken by the sound of knights charging into elephants at full tilt.

AlanH UP
Capt Buttkick - On deck
DJMGator13
leif erikson
Mistfit - Just played

... and I'm up. I'll get it and check back before venturing forth.

If AMR is at war with IND it's definately time to grab some cities.

Looking good Misfit! :goodjob:

America is almost to Delhi! :eek:

Good luck Alan, get us some land from India... :thumbsup: :hammer:

Well done, misfit.
This war between the Americans and the Indians is very good for us.
They're both exhausting their forces and we don't care who we take cities from. There'll also be less elephants to face :cool:

Good luck, Alan and :rockon:

Turn log 350 AD - 450 AD

Summary
Bought engineering, accepted DoW from Japan, built knights, killed barbs, captured St Louis.

Turn 150, 350 AD Preflight
I decided we should buy Engineering, as we have enough cash, most civs know it so it won't get cheaper, we want to know when Invention is around, and it will help with movement. We have a river to cross just to get out of Moscow. Bought it from Spain for 285 + WM.

IBT
America founded St Louis on our northern cape, so we'll wait for it to grow to pop 2 and then grab it. A very convenient port for us to use as a base on the way to the Indian continent. Japan declared war as I didn't feel generous enough to give them 40 gold and my map. I didn't know if we'd get any reverse WW, but I doubt if it will do us any harm.

Turn 151, 360 AD
I want a WM, as I can't see the barb camps. Ours seems to be out of date, as India wants 44 for a swap. I buy from England for 26 + WM. This shows there are lots of new cities founded in the SW. No more one-til islands that I can see.
Galley with archers heads for barb camp near St Louis. Spear fortifies on worker. 4/5 horse fortifies in West to heal.

IBT
Arab galley heads SE into fog. Barb warrior dies on worker escort spear - no damage. France builds Toulouse near our horse colony. Another city for us soon. Moscow builds a horse, starts another.

Turn 152, 370 AD
Land archers from galley nar barb camp. Elite horse moves east.
Trade WM around for 33 gp + maps, so we made a small net profit over the two turns.

IBT
Worker finished road. Arab glley reappears in NE, a French galley appears in NE. Barb galley attacks our galley and dies, no damage.

Turn 153, 380 AD
Archer kills barb warrior and wins 25gp from camp, -1HP. Galley checks out St Louis. Can see a regular spear on top. Worker and spear move north to road to coast. Elite horse S, E to iron mountain.

IBT
AI galleys moving north. Moscow horse -> worker.

Turn 154, 390 AD
Elite horse E. 3/3 archer fortifies to heal.

IBT Moscow completes worker, starts horse.

Turn 155, 400 AD
Archers reboard galley and it moves north. Elite horse East to mtn. Worker from Moscow north towards iron mountain. Four galley fleet moves towards pickup point at north end of road.

IBT India and America sign peace treaty. Barb horse attacks horse colony and dies, elite spear loses 1HP.

Turn 156, 410 AD
Worker onto iron mountain. elite horse south towards road. Galley fleet to pickup point. Archer galey east towards barbs.

IBT
Worker completes road to north coast. French archer out of Toulouse towards horse colony. Moscow horse -> horse.

Turn 157, 420 AD
Worker builds iron colony. Upgrade 9 horses for 720 gold. Road worker and spear south along road. We are now average or strong vs. all except France.

IBT
Barb horse attacks horse colony and dies, no damage. French archer fortifies 2 tiles from colony.

Turn 158, 430 AD
Archers land near NE barb camp. Spear fortifies on iron colony. Worker to west of iron mountain intending to road towards second horse supply for insurance. 9 knights move north out of Moscow. Elite horse east towards horse colony to threaten French archer.

IBT
French archer runs for cover. Moscow horse -> knight (5 turns).

Turn 159, 440 AD

Upgrade new horse (80 gold)

Do some sums. A knight costs 70 shields. Moscow can either:

- build one knight every 5 turns
- short rush Knights via an Axeman (40 shields) every 3 turns for 100 gold each
- build a horse every 2 turns and upgrade for 80 gold.

We are earning 36gpt net, so with extra from new cities and/or map trades and/or barb camps we can probably sustain any of these options. Decide to go for the horse/upgrade option for now. So warrior out of Moscow towards tundra tile where he will pillage road, worker heads back onto iron mountain to move to rebuild road after pillage.

St Louis has grown to pop 2, so 8 knights move to attack St Louis next turn.
Elite horse into horse colony ready for active defence/leader fishing against France.

IBT Abe comes calling and suggests we make peace. It'll only cost us 173 gold + 16gpt :lol: We show him to the door. French archer reappears.

Turn 160, 450 AD
At St. Louis:
4/4 knight kills 3/3 spear -> 3/4
4/4 knight retreats vs 3/3 spear, no damage
4/4 knight kills 3/3 spear, -> 3/4 and captures St Louis with one resister.
Started a worker build in St Louis, but feel free to change.

Galley that was ferrying archers moves back towards St Louis to help with invasion planning.
6 knights board 3 galleys. Warrior pillages road to iron, Moscow build changed to horse, complete next turn. Knight from Moscow moves north (should have moved before the road was pillaged! :smoke: )

After action report
Some units have not moved yet:

- There are three galleys full of knights outside St Louis and they haven't moved yet. We can wait until we have all our troops ready to move, or start out now. Jaipur is still pop 1, so we shouldn't go for it yet.

- The elite horse is on the horse colony near Toulouse and hasn't moved yet. He could attack the French archer, but that would leave him exposed and possibly wounded right outside Toulouse.

- The two archers are also available to attack Toulouse when it reaches pop 2.

No one has Invention yet.

The save is behind the picture ;)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Xteam_SGOTM5_450AD.jpg (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Xteam_SG005_AD0450_01.SAV)

Very nice Alan!! :goodjob:

Couldn't you convince the French to build in a nicer place, like the other side of the horse colony?? :p

Capturing St. Louis is sweet! It is going to feel strange to have more than one city again. :rolleyes:

Looking at the terrain, do you think Jaipur will grow to 2. That will be its max size until it has a harbor. Do you think the AI would work a mountain instead of the coast square?

On to India before they can build too many elephants. :eek:

:goodjob: Alan.

This is a got it. Will play later today or early tomorrow.

AlanH - Just played
Capt Buttkick UP - and got it
DJMGator13 - on deck
leif erikson
Mistfit

Go Captain!

Wow a second city. We're on the move now.

Well done Alan.

Good luck Capt.

This is a got it. Will play later today or early tomorrow.
Good luck Capt. :cool: :king:

Sgotm 5: 450 - 550 A.D.

Preflight: Nothing.
IBT: Moscow horse --> horse.
Turn 1 - 460 A.D. Toulouse is now size 2, so attack the archer with elite horse --> loose a HP. Worker builds road.
IBT: elite horse loose 2 HPs to a reg archer attacking out of Toulouse. Spain and Egypt make peace.
Turn 2 - 470 A.D. Attack barb warrior with vet knight, no HP loss.
IBT: American galley appears N of St. Louis. Moscow horse --> horse.
Turn 3 - 480 A.D. Defeat barb camp with vet knight, 2 HP lost.
Turn 4 - 490 A.D. Vet archer defeats reg French archer outside Toulouse. Vet knight attacks American reg knight out of St. Louis. Loose a Hp and promotes. Upgrade 2 horses to knights. Pillage road, worker builds road.
IBT: Defeat an Arab MI in St. Louis, loose a few HPs off a knight. Arab galley takes 2 HP off one of our galleys. Moscow horse --> worker.
Turn 5 - 500 A.D. Nothing.
IBT: Moscow worker --> horse.
Turn 6 - 510 A.D. Worker2 N. Will road + forest so for + 1 gold. After that we'll have a 3-worker road team.
Turn 7 - 520 A.D. Upgrade 1 horse. Knight defeats reg French archer outside St. Louis, loose 1 HP. Elite knight retreats to St. Louis taking 1 HP off a reg Mongol sword. Unload 8 vet knights and an elite warrior close to Atlanta.
IBT: Vet knight defeats Mongol sword in St. Louis, loose a HP promote. Vet knight defeats American reg knight outside Atlanta. Moscow horse --> horse.
Turn 8 - 530 A.D. If you don't read the rest of the turnlog, read this turn and the next: :lol: Elite horse defeats reg archer outside Toulouse, loose 2 HPs. 2 Vet knights loose 2 HPs to a MI outside Atlanta. Vet knight loose 1 HP to Mi outside Atlanta. 2 Vet knights defeat 2 reg spears in Atlanta. Take Atlanta. Defeat reg Mi outside New York with Vet knight, no HP loss. Defeat reg knight outside New York with vet knight, loose 1 HP. Defeat MI outside New York, loose a HP off a veet knight.
IBT: trade maps to Keltoi for 12 gold. orry, I thought this was done and we hadn't much to earn from trading...
Turn 9 - 540 A.D. Reg MI makes our vet knight retreat away from New York. Knight defeats reg knight loosing a HP, but promotes to elite. Defeat MI outside New York with a vet knight, loose a HP. Defeat reg spear in New York with a vet knight, loose a HP. Defeat reg archer in New York with elite knight. Take New York.
IBT: Defeat 2 reg French swords in St. Louis, both our elite knights are at 1 HP :eek: Moscow horse --> horse.
Turn 10 - 550 A.D. Elite horse looses 2 Hp to reg archer outside Toulouse. Worker2 forest. Upgrade 2 horses. Vet knight defeats barb camp. Try a few attacks out of New York, but 3 knights all retreat. Sell maps to everyone we are at peace with for around 50 gold.

Summary: gained 2 cities, built horses for upgrades to knights.
My thoughts: I think we should see if we can take Washington. If we take Washington, then we should be able to get Buffalo (one-tile island) and Calcutta in a peace deal. That will make it possible for us to backstab India...

Nice work, Captain :goodjob:

AlanH
Capt Buttkick - Just played
DJMGator13 UP
leif erikson - on deck
Mistfit

Keep the momentum up Gator. There'll be no stopping us now.

Great job guys! Looking like an auspicious start towards world domination.

Good job Capt. :goodjob: More cities. :cool:

By the time I get to see it again, I'll have an empire to manage again!! :eek:

Good luck Gator!! Time to humble Abe! :spank:

Sounds like a good plan. I'll should be able to play tomorrow AM.

Summary - captured 5 cities, got a 6th in a peace deal, lost St. Louis but we can recapture it very soon, and generated a GL which I converted to an army because we have a bunch of elite knights fighting

Preturn - 550AD
set New York to starve
mm St. Louis to game
wake knight in Atlanta send to NY kill one of the 2 AMR axes

IBT - AMR ax kills a knight

Turn 1 - 560AD
kill the offending AMR axe
troops in NY still healing

IBT - screwed up and let a barb destroy our iron colony (thought he would need to pillage, all he needed was to reach the tile) / Moscow horse => horse

Turn 2 - 570AD
stop the worker from forestry and moved towards former iron colony site
rush a woker in New York

Turn 3 - 580AD
unload 4 more knights near Atlanta
move troops next to Toulouse (size 2)

IBT - 2 pairs of Bhorse & warrior are moving on our homeland / MON galley sails up next to Toulouse / Moscow horse => horse

Turn 4 - 590AD
knight redlines FRA pike then dies
elite horse kills FRA spear & produces GLeader (I'll start him towards AMR lands for a FP)
1st archer takes out redlined pike
2nd archer takes out LBow & we add Toulouse to our empire
set to library to bring the iron into our cultural border

kill 1 of the 4 barbs

our AMR attack knights are finally healed - move most towards Washington

IBT - SPN offers to sell THEO for 350 gold - I decline - sell them our Wmap / MON galley sails away / 2Barb horse die attacking different knights, only 1 Bwarrior left / FRA completes Sun Tzu

Turn 5 - 600AD
vKnight redlines AMR pike
vKnight kills AMR spear
vKnight kills AMR spear
vknight kills redline pike - Washington is ours (set to library)

Game crashed during the IBT (reloaded, repeated last move, game crashed again - go online to make sure I have the right resources files loaded - I needed the diplo fix file also)

IBT - AZT demand our Tmap & 38gold - check where AZT are on the map (thanks to Mistfits map) - tell AZT to leave us alone I'm busy conquering AMR - they declare war / last Bwarrior dies / Moscow horse => horse

Turn 6 - 610AD
take out 2 Bcamps (+50gold)
kill AMR LB outside of Washington
detour our GL to Moscow (convert to army since I have 3 elite knights about to attack Philly)

vKnight redlines against AMR rPike
vKnight kills the rPike
eKnight captures Philly (set to library)

move 3 knights against the desert city of Miami and capture it

AMR still has 10 cities - no peace yet

IBT - FRA and ARB land troops next to an undefended St. Louis / we can build an FP / add a section to our palace / FRA is building Magellans

Turn 7 - 620AD
both FRA & ARB want too much for peace / stop our 2 workers from roading the forest tile S S of St. Louis (we will lose it but we can recapture it in a few turns) our iron colony will be reestablished next turn with the AMR worker

take out a Bcamp (+25 gold)
lose a knight attacking Chicago - short troops

IBT - SPN & FRA sign MA against us / FRA capture St. Louis / Moscow horse => horse

Turn 8 - 630AD
AMR worker reestablishes iron colony, upgrade 4 horses to knights
capture Chicago

Turn 9 - 640AD
since SPN declared on us figure it's a good time to make peace with AMR / they won't give Calcutta but I get Buffalo, Ivention, Theology and Wmap for peace

IBT - SPN lands a settler on our island near the game SW of St. Louis / CHN offers peace - I decline / Bwarrior dies attacking our horse colony / 2 FRA units move out of St Louis / CHN has a city on Spice island

Turn 10 - 650AD
knight takes out a Bcamp (+25gold)
knight redlines but kills the ARB archer

Notes to next player
1) I've got 4 knights (1 with mp left) near St. Louis - there should only be 1 spear in the city, but 2 units that will attack our stack on the IBT (see pic)
2) I've got 5 knights that can attack Seville next turn (with 2 more a turn behind) (see pic)
3) I forgot to check Moscow, we might be able to rush the knight
4) The army unit is unloaded and with the stack S S of St. Louis

Firaxis 148 / Jason 97

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Xteam05_09.jpg

:goodjob: Gator.
I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, but make sure you don't choose Education in a peace deal or trade for it in any way. We want as many techs as possible when we capture the GLib ;)

Good going Gator. :thumbsup:

AlanH
Capt Buttkick
DJMGator13 - Just played
leif erikson UP
Mistfit - on deck

All yours leif. It's a fair guess from the score graph that 1450 AD is the date to beat for our last city capture.

Great Turns Gator! It's nice to see we can still count on you for the GL production. Do we have a battleplan laid out? I don't want us to rush into things at this point and muss up. 1450AD is an awesome date IMO for this variant. Is there anything we can be doing now that will make future conquest easier? I haven't poured through the turnsets yet but did you notice that Gunpowder is known by the French (I think that allows their UU) Is there any possibility of getting the french in a war against the Irriquois?

Is there any possibility of getting the french in a war against the Irriquois?I wanted to do that originally, but we couldn't afford an alliance when we were one city. We might be able to now we are stronger.

Gator the WarMonger!! :goodjob: Excellent job. :cool:

I've got it. Haven't had time to look at the save, sorry. Too many meetings! :cry:

Now, do we finish India or head for Spain? :hammer:
I'll try to get a war going with France and Iroquois, that is a good idea but it will depend on what we can offer the Iroquois I think?

Unless we need more discussion, I will try to play this evening, about 10 to 12 hours from this post's time.

Now, do we finish India or head for Spain?

I'd do both. We can hit SPN for a few cities and slowly build up a force to go after IND. We need to clear out both IND and AMR so that we don't get attacked from the rear. I did not check our status against everyone, but we were either strong or average against a good number of them. As long as we can keep enough reinforcements coming we can keep the pressure on. It would be nice to get a second (or a true first) core up and running. Right now almost all our troops have come from one city.

I'd use the next GL for a FP. With the lack of shields around Washington and the poor terrain in most of our captured cities there, I'd look for a spot better than Washington for an FP. Alan have you studied the map yet for us?

When the iron was unhooked, Moscow was producing a horse every 2 turns without rushing. We were also making +40gpt so we had enough to upgrade the horse to a knight in the same 2 turns.

For the Number of cities I'd look at New York for FP placement. It will give us 13 cities within distance 9 of the FP. I doubt that anyone is going to settle any closer than that to us on the home island.

Note I have no problem with the idea of cutting the road to our iron and reconnecting to produce horses to upgrade. In four turn we can get a boat full to send north. Once St Louis is ours our first build should be Rax. We need to connect the city asap as well to hurry the troops north.

I read through the spoiler throroughly and we have all overlooked one very important aspect of m-b's setup:
2. Leaders cannot hurry great wonders or small wonders. They may however be disbanded for 250 shields.

So, can we afford to disband a GL for a courthouse in one of Spain's cities closest to Moscow and then handbuild the FP?
Wouldn't that be the logical way to proceed once we've put all our eggs in the FP basket?

I'm not able to open the save from work so I've not seen the latest save but how bad is the corruption in our newest northern cities? Are they totally corrupt? As far as using a GL to build a courthouse I think they'd be better served as an army. Courthouses are not so expensive that we couldn't cash rush them.

All good points. Quite right, we can't rush the FP, it will cost us 200 shields to build by hand, and if we want to achieve 1400 AD we have 90 turns left. None of our current cities can produce it in a short enough time to make a difference. Atlanta is about 60% corrupt and the others look like 80% to 100%. I haven't run CivAssist, so I'm guessing a bit. We'll need somewhere that can generate at least 4 or 5 spt to make it worth building.

Bad news about losing St Louis. That might have been a less corrupt city, but we have to wait now until it gets to pop 2 again before we can grab it back. Jaipur is at pop 2 now, so we should go and get that one.

I recommend we focus efforts on Moscow as our production center for now. It can produce 45 knights in the remaining time all on its own.

Extra cities will help pay the upkeep for units produced in Moscow, and they can also be used for building and/or cash rushing additional horses. 116 gold will rush a horse, and another 40 gold will upgrade it.

Why is Moscow building a knight? We should be building horses - that's the way I set it up. We have more than enough shield and cash to produce and upgrade a horse every two turns. We can only short rush knights every three turns. Or are we taking a moral stand against resource pillaging?

Morals? What are those? Lemme check....Nope I don't have any.

Bad news about losing St Louis. That might have been a less corrupt city, but we have to wait now until it gets to pop 2 again before we can grab it back.

Are you sure? The citizen in it is either AMR or ours so it should not autoraze if we recapture it from the FRA. I've captured size 1 cities from a third party before and not had them autoraze. Just did it in COTM07, unless that is a C3C thing.

@Alan - Moscow changed automatically to a knight when I reestablished the iron colony. We can pillage the tundra road to disconnect it again.

@Capt - I agree, the 250 shields will build us the FP in 1 turn. We have several elite knights ready to attack, so the next GL should be used for it. I tried to send the first one to AMR before I realized that I had a bunch of elites ready to fight and was hoping to generate another one there.

Are you sure? The citizen in it is either AMR or ours so it should not autoraze if we recapture it from the FRA. I've captured size 1 cities from a third party before and not had them autoraze. Just did it in COTM07, unless that is a C3C thing.Oh! I wasn't aware that you can get away with taking pop 1 cities unless they'd expanded. Sorry!

@Alan - Moscow changed automatically to a knight when I reestablished the iron colony. We can pillage the tundra road to disconnect it again. Surprising! I was sure during our Roman game we were pillaging and reconnecting in the same turn and leaving horses being built.

@Capt - I agree, the 250 shields will build us the FP in 1 turn.I didn't think you could use disband shields for wonders, big or small :hmm: I'm on a learning curve here!

We have several elite knights ready to attack, so the next GL should be used for it. I tried to send the first one to AMR before I realized that I had a bunch of elites ready to fight and was hoping to generate another one there.Well, if you think they are of any value ... I'm not a big fan of knight armies, we aren't building anything very expensive, and I need to be convinced that they can help with wonders.

Hi guys, sorry I've haven't been able to be on the last 2 days, too much going on. However, you now have my full attention! ;)
Are you sure? The citizen in it is either AMR or ours so it should not autoraze if we recapture it from the FRA. I've captured size 1 cities from a third party before and not had them autoraze. Just did it in COTM07, unless that is a C3C thing.
I'm not sure about this? :confused: Do I dare try it or be safe and wait until it gets to pop 2?
Surprising! I was sure during our Roman game we were pillaging and reconnecting in the same turn and leaving horses being built.
Iirc, we connected the saltpeter at the beginning of the turn and disconnected it at the end of the turn. That way we could upgrade Horses to Cavs during the turn and then go back to producing Horses between turns. Although I must admit that I don't remember having to go back and change any Cav builds back to Horses just because we connected the Saltpeter. I wonder if it changes it during the inter-turn? BTW - We have 30 shields in the box now and I don't see any way to disconnect the iron to Moscow before I press enter, so I think we have to finish the Knight build or waste a bunch of shields. It'll cost 160 gold to rush it but we may need that cash to buy the Iroquois into war with France, please see note 4. below.

I think the only way to find out what a disbanded leader will do is to try it when we get one.

I'm reluctant to start tonight as I have some questions;

1. How "honorable" do we intend to be regarding our reputation. We are now at peace with America, do we intend to honor the 20 turns or am I free to redeclare if we have sufficient forces to go after them? Or do we lan to try ot et America into war with India as our ally, then eliminate them? :mischief:

2. I had a long look at the map and I think Spain is vulnerable. For that matter, so is Egypt. We are strong compared to both of them. What I am thinking is that we may have enough force to march on Spain, and perhaps Egypt (have to see how it goes), while we do what Gator said and build up additional Knights in the former American area to carry the fight to India and America. Our home continent can be taken care of by units built in Moscow as they move north.

3. Should we get a leader and we can build the FP, New York looks lke a good site to me as well. I checked CivAssist and it would provide a huge boost in production. Alan is correct that the least corruption is 60% and most cities are over 90% corrupt.

4. I checked the diplo screen and we can get the Iroquois to align with us against France for World Map, 455 Gold and 6 GPT. Is this worth it? France does have Gunpowder, and they are the only one, at the moment. :rolleyes:

5. The Chinese and Mongols will sign a peace treaty with us. The Chinese will give us 20 Gold if we sign and the Mongols will sign straight up. Should we sign peace and get them working at war with our southern neighbors or do we want silk island from the Chinese first?

6. It looks like Spain is about to build another city for us on our home continent. We can take it when it gets to size 2. :D

7. When the time comes, I think it might benefit us to try to get Jaipur in a peace deal with India, right before we obliterate them, of course, rather than send forces there to seize it?

OK, enough questions. I think I may delay playing tonght until tomorrow evening when I see what everyone thinks about this. Thanks.

You can short rush the knight we are building now via an Axeman to reduce it to two turns instead of three.

I think I completed the horse and then started a knight, instead of it changing automatically.

Great Leaders cannot rush even a small wonder in this game but it can be disbanded for 250 shields which is enough to build the FP (only 200 shields), so in effect it can rush the FP.

On rep - we will want to continue to use MA and ROPs. We want the fastest way possible so if we have enough troops I say hit AMR as well.

Disbanding units will not help towards wonders, big or small, in most games. How that is in this game, I don't know, but I don't think m-b would have left a loophole there...

For reference I did take a size 1 city from a third party last night on PTW for gotm38 and the city did not autoraze. Can we ask about the FP thing in the maintenence thread?

Disbanding units will not help towards wonders, big or small, in most games. How that is in this game, I don't know, but I don't think m-b would have left a loophole there...

Good point, I wasn't thinking along that line. Just like forest chops do not assist wonders. It might be worth asking MB. If they can't add to the shield box then there are very few things worth rushing and I'd keep making armies out of leaders.

Here's a look at the size 1 city I captured in COTM07 (tight shot no spoiler info). I captured the SPN city from ROM and it did not autoraze.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Xteam05_10.jpg

Disbanding units will not help towards wonders, big or small, in most games. How that is in this game, I don't know, but I don't think m-b would have left a loophole there...
That was my point, and I don't even think it's something you can decide in the scenario editor. That's why I was surprised when Gator said it was possible. But I was wrong on the pop 1 city capture thing and I'm prepared to be wrong on disbanding to build wonders.

I think the answer is "No" on the disband towards the FP.

In post #24 of the maintenance thread Klarius asked if leaders could be disbanded towards a palace. This was MB's reply (post #25):

No. A palace is a wonder. IF a forest chop wouldn't go towards it then a disbanded unit won't either. Unfortunately I am not able to implement leaders in the same way as C3C. This was the closest I was able to acheive.

It is a tough fight over in Spain land, but I think I wore them out; I hope!!
Here it is:

Turn 180 - 650 AD
Preflight
Checking CRPMapstat, there is a 2.9% chance Philadelphia will flip and a 2.44% chance Washington will flip back to America. They both require garrisons of 15, that isn't going to happen! Everything else is below 1%.
Change build in Moscow to Axeman and use it to short rush the Knight in 2 turns, at a cost of 40 Gold, instead of 3 (Thanks Alan!).
Vet Knight attacks French Reg. Sword and defeats him without loss and promotes to elite, fortifies.
Make peace with China in return for 20 Gold.
Make peace with the Mongols straight up.
I think it is too expensive to ally with the Iroquois against the French, so I'll check htis a little bit later.
Press enter.

IBT
Spanish Reg. LB attacks out of Seville and redlines a vet Knight, who retreats. The LB lost 1 HP.
Frankish Axeman attacks Elite knight and dies, inflicting 2 HP damage near St. Louis.
Spanish Settler on our continent moves inland.

Turn 181 - 660 AD
Decide to go for St. Louis.
Vet Knight versus Reg Spear, Spear dies we lose 1 HP.
Vet Knight versus Reg Spear, Spear dies, we lose 1 HP, take St. louis and liberate 1 Gold. Change production to Rax.
Load Army and a Vet Knight onto a galley.

At Seville.
Vet Knight attacks Reg Pike, Pike dies we lose 1 HP.
Vet Knight attacks Reg Spear, our Knight dies :eek: while redlining the Spear.
Elite Kinght attacks Reg Spear (1/3), Knight wins wihtout loss.
Vet Knight attacks Reg LB (2/3), kills him losing 1 HP, takes Seville and captures 6 gold. Seville Rax.

Move Vet Spear into path of Spanish Settler near St. Louis.

Pillage road with Warrior north of Moscow to cut Iron.

Set American and Spanish cities to starve.

Sign a Military Alliance with the Iroquois against the French. We give them World Map plus 482 Gold.

IBT
Moscow Knight => Horse.

Turn 182 - 670 AD
Looks like the Spanish Settler is headed for our Iron Colony, may have to destroy him but if I can block him, perhaps he will build for us. Block using our Spear.

IBT
Spanish Settler retreats.
A Japanese Galley shows up near Toulouse.
The Arabs are building JS Bach's.
Some cities starve.

Turn 183 - 680 AD
Vet Knight takes out a barb Horsie north of Moscow.
Near Seville.
Vet Knight attacks Reg Spanish LB, kills him losing 2 HP, moves back towards Seville.
Set cities to starve.

IBT
Spanish Knight attacks our Elite Knight and dies, redlining our Knight.
Spanish Knight attacks our vet Knight (2/4) and kills him, losing 2 HP.
Spanish Knigth attacks our Elite Knight (1/5) and kills him without loss.
Barb Warrior attacks Vet Knigth and dies, no loss.
Washington flips to America. :eek:
Moscow Horsie => Horsie.
Paris has completed the Sistine Chapel.
The Iroquois, Keltoi, Vikings, Mongols, Indians, Spanish and Japanese are building Leonardo's.
The English, Indians, Spanish and Vikings are building JS Bach's.
Good, that's 2 Sanish cities that are not building military units.

Turn 184 - 690 AD
Near Seville.
Vet Knight attacks Spanish Reg LB, defeats him without loss.
Elite Knight attacks Span Reg Knight (2/3), defeats him losing 1 HP.
Vet Knight attacks Span Reg Knight (3/3), defeats him redlining and promoting.
Set cities to starve.

IBT
The Rabs request an audience. They want us to give them 239 Gold plus 1 GPT for peace. :p
Lincoln is mad at us because we are building a road for him??
The Aztecs are building Leonardo's, Copernicus's Observatory and JS Bach's.
The Arabs are building Leonardo's and JS Bach's.
The Iroquois are building JS Bach's.

Turn 185 - 700 AD
Elite Knight takes out a Barb Camp for 25 Gold.
Near Seville.
Vet Knight attacks Span Reg Spear, kills him losing 1 HP.
Vet Knight attacks Span Reg Missionary, kills him without loss.

IBT
Reg Span Knight attacks our Vet Knight and kills him, he redlines and then promotes.
Japan requests an audience. They want 180 Gold for peace. :p
Moscow Horsie => Horse.
The Chinese are building Copernicus's Observatory.
The Americans are building JS Bach's.

Turn 186 - 710 AD
Load up some Knights bound for Span.
At Toledo.
Vet Knight attacks Span Reg Pike, defeats him without loss.
Vet Knight attacks Span Reg Spear, redlines and retreats!
Elite Knight attacks Reg Spear (2/3), defeats him and we capture Toledo and 1 Gold. Production to Rax.

Near Seville.
Vet Knight attacks Span Reg Axeman, defeats him, redlining and promoting.
Elite (4/5) Knight attacks Span Vet (2/4) Knight, defeats him losing 1 HP.

Trap Spanish Settler using Spear on our continent.

Trade Maps around.

IBT
The Spanish settle on our continent.
The Arabs land 2 Cataphracts near St. Louis and I'm in trouble!!
The Egyptians want peace for Chivalry. I don't think so.
The Arabic city of Jeddah competes Leonardo's Workshop.
The Iroquois => JS Bach's.
The Vikings and Spanish Copernicus.

Turn 187 - 720 AD
Recall Galley bound for Spain and enter St. Louis. Disembark Knights and attacks the Cataphracts.
Vet Knight attacks Vet Cataphract, kills him losing 2 HP.
Vet Knight attacks Reg Cataphract, kills hm and promotes to elite, losing 2 HP.
Re-embark Knights and head for Spain.

IBT
Span Vet Axeman attacks Vet Knight and redlines him, retreating into Toledo, the Axeman loses 2 HP.
The English request an audience. They want to sell us Printing Press for 250 Gold. Sorry.
Worker completes road connecting Iron to Moscow.
Moscow Horsie => Knight.
The Aztecs are building JS Bach's and Copernicus's Observatory.

Turn 188 - 730 AD
Upgrade 4 Horses to Knights.
Disconnect Iron Road, reset Knight build to Horse in Moscow.
Near Toledo, Elite Knight attacks Vet (2/4) Span Axeman, defeat him, losing 2 HP and Peter the Great is born!! Move him into Toledo awaiting a Galley to transport him to Atlanta.
Vet Knight attacks Vet Span Axeman, retreats after inflicting 2 HP damage.
Elite (4/5) Knight attacks Vet Span Archer, defeats him losing 1 HP.
Elite Knight attacks Vet (2/4) Span Axeman, defeats him losing 1 HP.

IBT
Japanese land Samurai near St. Louis.
Vikings land Archer near New York.
Spain moves an Archer near New york.

Turn 189 - 740 AD
Worker begin roading Iron connection to Moscow.
Move Knights out of Moscow. One towards Toulouse to hunt Barbs, 3 north for shipment to Spain.
Worker and 2 Knights into St. Louis to defend against Samurai. The Samurai is on a hill and with a 4 defense times 1.5, I decide not to attack him.
Near New York.
Elite (4/5) Knight attacks a Reg Span Archer, defeats him wihtout loss.
Elite (4/5) Knight attacks reg Vik Archer, defeats him losing 1 HP.

America now has Gunpowder as well. He wants Wm, 20 GPT plus 264 Gold, too expensive.
The Iroquois also have Gunpowder and want almost as much as America for it.
Japan, Vikings, China, Spain and England also have Gunpowder.

IBT
The Vet Samurai attacks St. Louis and kills an Elite Knight, losing 2 HP.
Moscow Horse => Horse.

Turn 190 - 750 AD
Vet Knight attacks Barb Warrior, kills him wihtout loss.

Elite (4/5) Knight attacks Vet (2/4) Samurai outside St, Louis and kills him, losing 2 HP.
Unload 2 Kinghts into Toledo and load Peter the Great into the Galley.

After Action Report
We lost Washington to a culture flip. Took St. Louis back and took Seville and Toledo from the Spanish. The Spanish sent a lot of units out but it has slackened the last couple of turns. I was trying to get 10 Knights together to attack Madrid with. There are 9 curently available, though some are healing. St. Louis has been a favorite AI target. We are strong militarily compared to the Spanish. There are Barbs near the iron colony and north of the Horse colony.

There is a great leader located on the Galley off of Toledo. I was thinking of getting him to New York and disbanding him for a courthouse and then a FP? The is an empty army in Atlanta.

I moved a worker into the woods near Atlanta to road it. Before the forest chop, Atlanta could produce 2 shields.

Firaxis Score = 170 Jason = 111
<< THE SAVE >> (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Xteam_SG005_AD0750_01.SAV)

Please feel free to change any builds. Good luck!! :rockon:

EDIT - Added the save and a few comments.

I agree on using the GL for a courthouse. Maybe we can irrigate lots and get it to size 6 and WLTK with a few entertainers? That would also help against corruption.
Civ3 armies are so bad that in most cases you're better off without them, as our Sgotm 3 showed (all in my imhso).

:goodjob: leif

Civ3 armies are so bad that in most cases you're better off without them, as our Sgotm 3 showed (all in my imhso).
I think I should clarify something as it was quite late last night and, well :dubious:
I moved the empty Army to the American continent but did not load anything into it. I didn't load it because I didn't want to reduce the number of attacks I could make from 3 to 1 and I didn't want to have to wait forever for the Army to heal. As soon as we get some more Knights into the area, imho we can use some to make up the army. The other consideration is to fill the Army with infantry units... :eek: :cringe:

Can we disband the army for the same amount of shields?

Can Armies pilliage? If so it may be useful as resourse denial.

Well played leif.

AlanH - on deck
Capt Buttkick
DJMGator13
leif erikson - Just played
Mistfit UP

Have at 'em Mistfit.

I've been watching the score curves and I have a nasty feeling Smackster may have finished. If so the bar's been raised to somewhere between 1150 AD and 1250 AD. That's only 40 turns from here :eek: I guess we need to get to cavalry pretty soon, since our current rate of progress with knights is never going to take out all those AI cities in the remaining time.

I have some concerns about our build orders. We should concentrate on our primary objectives. We want vet horses and money to upgrade them. That's all. We only want cities if they are cost effective towards that objective.

We're building a spearman in Buffalo. Buffalo needs to be there, but it needs no defence as it's a single tile. I don't think it can build anything useful in the time remaining, so it might as well return wealth. We're building libraries and harbours. We're not planning to do our own research, and a corrupt city with a harbour or a library just costs us 1gpt. Do we have a plan that these relate to?

I've got it. I'll play some tonight if plowing out snow does not take to long once I get home (another 8-10" in the last 16 hours :( ) If not then, I will play tomorrow. I'll check here first to see if there are any suggestions.

Edit: 40 turns! We have 154 cities left to obtain/raze. I think that workd out to 3.85 cities per turn or close to 40 per turn set :hmm: Well I doubt it but I'll see what I can do.

I have some concerns about our build orders. We should concentrate on our primary objectives. We want vet horses and money to upgrade them. That's all. We only want cities if they are cost effective towards that objective.

We're building libraries and harbours. We're not planning to do our own research, and a corrupt city with a harbour or a library just costs us 1gpt. Do we have a plan that these relate to?
This is a very good point. I didn't change any build orders, perhaps I should have. I had no plan and it shows. The problem I see is that keeping the cities means they are at risk for flipping and then we have to reconquer them. Unless we can find a way to get the FP built and make the area productive, and soon, the more cities we take the worse the corruption will get.

Unless we jump the palace by disbanding Moscow? :eek:

If we disband Moscow we lose the Lighthouse and slow down our galleys, and it will take many turns to build up a new core to the productivity we have in that one city.

We have to defend front line cities that we keep, which uses up valuable knights. If those cities flip we lose knights. Mistfit has done the sums - 154 cities to destroy. We only have 15 knights currently, so I perhaps we should just build and upgrade horses every two turns in Moscow and pillage and burn every city we take on the other continents.

We maybe need one or two cities in stragetic locations with rushed barracks where redlined knights can heal fast - the healing knights will garrison them. Otherwise only keep cities on our own island that are easy to defend with knights as they are produced, plus Buffalo.

If we disband Moscow we lose the Lighthouse and slow down our galleys, and it will take many turns to build up a new core to the productivity we have in that one city.
Of course, I agree! It is a tough dilema. Taking 154 cities with the production of one by 1200 AD seems a daunting task.
We have to defend front line cities that we keep, which uses up valuable knights. If those cities flip we lose knights. Mistfit has done the sums - 154 cities to destroy. We only have 15 knights currently, so I perhaps we should just build and upgrade horses every two turns in Moscow and pillage and burn every city we take on the other continents.
This is exactly the problem I have a very difficult time with when I go after another civ. The attack peters out because of the lack of focus. I get as interested in making cities productive and covering them, siphoning off military and diluting combat resources. Then one flip and too much is lost. :cry:

I think we have to try this. I don't see any other alternative. Keeping the other continent at war with each other will be key as well. If we can use them to keep each other's military's in check, we have a chance. If they don't, I don't see how we can overcome the unmber and quality of units we will face.

We will need to save some cash to get Gunpowder. Do we try to research to Cavs or keep up the pressure and wait? I don't think anyone has built The Great Library yet?

:band: Merry Christmas!! :xmas:

Pre-Turn:
Change most everything to barracks on our build queue.
IBT:
America Building Coper's
Japan Building JS Bach and Maggie's
Madrid Finishes JS Bach\
Turn 1 (760AD)
Move Peter the Great into New York Change Production to Courthouse and rush it with the leader. Courthouse now due in 1.
Set-up for attack on Madrid.
IBT:
Moscow finishes Horse and Start on Knight that will be switched back to a Horse after the Upgrades are done.
New York still has 50% corruption so FP would still take 100 turns :( Switch it to Rax
Toledo Riots :grr: I missed that one. Start back on Starvation.
Aztec's building Coper's
US building Coper's
Iroquois building it also. They land a settler and a Mounted warrior south of our Horse colony. Hey another town for us :evil:
Salamanca builds Coper's
Delhi finishes Magellans

Turn 2 (770AD)
Upgrade Both Horses
Chop the road again and change to building a horseman.

Battle of Madrid
vKnight win flawlessly vs rPike
eKnight -2hp kills rSpear
eKNight redlines and retreats doing no damage to rSpear
eKnight -1hp wins vs rSpear and spawns a leader
Take Madrid and kill off a leader in their city
I know you don't want to but I'm going to try to keep this city. It has 2 wonders helping happiness (Bach and HG) No other Spanish borders are touching the city so the flip chances are greatly reduced. Anyway we don't plan on the Spanish being around for very long anyhow.

Stalin builds an Army and I load Mistfit's first into it.

I remembered someones suggestion to change Buffalo to Wealth.

IBT:
Iroquois settle a town on our lands

Turn 3 (780AD)
Battle of Barcelona
eKnight redlines but kills a rPike
only a bowman left but no backups to help take the city.

Start to reroad the iron supply

IBT
The French and Iroquois sign peace :(
Moscow Horse to Horse
The Bowman flees from Barcelona

Turn 4 (790AD)
Battle for Barcelona
Knight Army kills rSpear and Takes the city

After looking to see if there were anything I could sell off I abandon the city.

IBT:
Oh Crud India and the Aztecs have signed a military aliance against us

Turn 5 (800AD)

Battle of Murcia
eKNight kills rPike -2hp
VKnight redlines but wins against a rSpear
4hp Army retreats twice against a rBow
3hp eKnight kills 2hp bow and we Raze the City

Battle of Thebes
7/8 Army Dies attacking a rSpear :( he's redlined but I have no one else close.

Re-route a boatfull of knights towards the Indian lands. We may loose a city if he has any fast movers

Establish an Embasy with the Americans
Boston has temple, Aqueduct, 2 spears, 1 Knight and a settler. Currently producing a caravel with an amazing 6spt.

Make an Alliance with the Americans to fight the Indians for 190 gold and WM

IBT:
No fast movers from India only a Pike Settler pair.
Moscow Horse to Horse (Eventually)

Turn 6 (810 AD)
eKnight kills rSpear in Thebes -2hp and Takes city. I keep it because it will make a good jump off point for our upcomming egyptian offensive.

Kill off a wandering Egyptian Axeman in our territory. It redlines a eknight to do so.

IBT:
The Americans have Musketmen now.
The Aztecs are ending their turns on Ocean so they must have Navagation right?

Turn 7 (820AD)
Healing and moving troops to the front

IBT:
OK we might be in trouble the French land 2 Knights Next to St. Louis which is Empty of anything right now.

Turn 8 (830AD)
I have 2 Knights that need to take Frances 2 Knights or the city will be taken

Cross my fingers and Attack

vKnight vs French vKnight we win -2hp
vKNight vs French vKNight we win -2hp Whew...That was close.

IBT:
French Drop another vKNight near St. Louis
The Japanese Drop a Samuri and a Frankish Axeman Near Thebes
Zulu Drops a Knight near thebes as well
A Barbarian walks up to Moscow and needs to be killed

Turn 9 (840AD)
Well That is to much action for my one eKnight in Thebes so I abandon the city and Hightail it outta there.

Attack and take Lahore from the Indians no casualties

Kill the offending Barbarian and put the City back to rights 15spt

Notice Barcelona hits size 2. (Although it may be their Capitol soon :) )

IBT:
The 2 new Fench knights beat up my 2 wounded Knights and take St Louis

The Zulu Knight kills a fortified eKNight in forest flawlessly
The Samuri and Axeman gang up and kill our eKnight fortified on a hill. The Samuri retreated our knight off the hill with 2 hp and the axeman finished him up on a plains tile.

Turn 10 (950 AD)
Heal up and take out the offending Zulu Knight.
Upgrade the horse in Moscow to get to St Louis 1 turn earlier

Post Turn:
Spain will give us all of his extra cities for peace. We really don't want Murcia as it is way off in the West.
They will give us Valencia and Barcelonia and Gunpowder. I suggest this trade as it will take 2 to three turns to get to their capital. Although you could wait until the 1st turn of your next set and take Santiago before making peace. We are at his doorstep there.
I seem to have lost a lot of units (and 1 city)
Sorry for this turnset. I tried to push the envelope and ended up overextending our troops.

Well done Mistfit. We're in uncharted waters here. We really don't have enough resources to do what we have to do, but we have nothing to lose, so pushing the envelope is the name of the game. Keeping cities with major assets is fine, I'm just trying to make sure we think about what we are doing in the context of our goals.

AlanH UP
Capt Buttkick - on deck
DJMGator13
leif erikson
Mistfit - Just played

I wonder what's so special about St Louis? They all seem to want it, don't they? :hmm:

I'll take a look at it and try to play today. We have visitors though, so I'll have to sneak it in.

Looking good Misfit!! :goodjob:

As Alan said, this is a tough one. I'm trying to figure out a way to get production up in the conquered lands as it our best chance to turn this around. I am beginning to think that a palace jump was the best solution and it will be interesting to see what the other teams did to get their production up. However, looking back is of no use at the moment, so keep pushing the envelope and let's see where it takes us. With 150 some cities to take and at the rate of 3 to 4 per turn set, this is going to take a while! :crazyeye:

St. Louis is such a crappy site. You'd think they would want that cow up north? :cry: We could get some pop and production out of that! :goodjob: And it would be worth defending. ;)

Good luck Alan. :salute:

I'm back. Had a good Christmas visit with the family. And I get to start a new job next week.

Good turns and overall progress. I haven't looked at the saves yet, are we getting any unit production from cities other then Moscow?

Hi, Gator, welcome back. Good luck in your new job.

A couple of the ex-American cities are producing more than one shield. They'll be worth concentrating on, and if we can take out and grow the new Spanish cities on our island they should be good for a few shields.

I hope everyone had a nice holiday!
Good news on the job Gator (although does that mean less civ time?) If you don't mind me asking what do you do for a living?

Did anyone else notice that we are getting seriously spanked in the spamming department by team smackster?

I'm a CPA and about to be heading into tax season so yes it will probably mean less civ time. Plus I get to commute 40 miles into the heart of Orlando traffic, so I'll have about a 2 1/2 to 3 hour round trip commute.

I'm hoping to be able to keep up with both xOTMs, the SGOTM and possibly 1 other SG (probably our GOTM replay series).

I should have guessed that you were a CPA. With your amazing ability to figure out settler factories and things like that.

Good job to all on the last GOTM!

Gator is only 7 pts away from the top 10!

Alan H comes away with a medal for the fastest Conquest!

I've not quite figured this out but I actually moved up in the Global Rankings even though I didn't play the game.

Here's a question for you guys.

I played COTM 06 - I missed GOTM37 - I missed COTM 7 - But I think I can finish up GOTM38 in time. Am I going to drop in the standings because I missed 2 in a row?

Thanks Mistfit - I'm not sure how much higher I can climb in the rankings without learning how to knock a few hundred years off my score. I almost always seem to wait until knights to get into major fighting and I tend to neglect the techs once I reach CHIV. There is definately room for some improvement.

I think if you skip 2 consecutive games it will hurt every other month when those 2 games are grouped together for score. I'm sure Alan has better info on the impact of skipping games. But you should try to complete atleast 1 of the 2 each month.

@Alan - nice job on the conquest victory on deity. I was facing infantry with cavs and artillery to even attempt that. Now we are tied with 1 medal apeice.

Does GOTM38 count for December (starting date) or January (completion date)?
If it's December I should be OK. If it's Jan I'll drop in the rankings like the cold potato that I am :D

Another interesting side note is that between the COTM06 (the one I played) standings and the COTM07 & GOTM 37 (the ones I missed) My global ranking jumped from #87 to #85 without me playing a game :lol: That may be my new strategy...Don't play!

GOTM 38 will be paired with COTM 7 when its results are first released in late January, and then with COTM 8 at the beginning of February when those results are released. It will alternately be paired with these two games every two weeks thereafter.

Eldar hasn't played for three games now, so he has no score in the current two-game slot but you still do. So Eldar's rank dropped below yours. Game pairing alternates every two weeks, not every two months, so if you want to compare your results, like for like, over time you should look once a month, not every two weeks.

@Gator: Thanks, your result wasn't too dusty - I only got a medal by finding a victory condition no one else seemed to want. I did keep expecting to see infantry pop up in Carthaginian cities, but it was just rifles all the way down. Hannibaline seemed to be obsessed with getting to naval power and ignored the Replaceable Parts branch.

I only got a medal by finding a victory condition no one else seemed to want.

That's the same way I got mine. I was the only one who milked the COTM demi-god game back during hurricane season. So I got mine by default.

I'm sorry for the delay. I'm playing now. I have a Great Leader, and I've just realised I've missed an obvious ploy to get a second core going:

I believe a Palace can be built using disband shields, as it isn't a Wonder. It requires 400 shields at our current size. We could build one in New York, say, by disbanding the leader we have plus a second one. When we get a second leader we can hold it while we prebuild up to 150 shields for a Forbidden Palace in Moscow, using a Cathedral. Then we jump the Palace using the second leader and we work 50 more shields in Moscow to complete its FP. If it isn't totally corrupt we'll maybe complete the FP in 10 more turns.

Without a second core we are not progressing currently, and could even lose. Our productivity is pathetic, we have very few troops, no friends, and our homeland is under constant threat and inadequately protected.

Thoughts?

A second core is a must if we want to win this game in decent time. We need alot more troops on the battlefield.

Do forest chops go towards Palace builds? MB indicated that leader disbanding was similair to forest chops.

I don't know for sure, as I've only ever built one by rushing with a leader. I'm going on the fact that the Palace is not listed in the Civilopedia as a Wonder, and my Civ3 reference guide lists it among the other normal improvements. I think we have nothing to lose. I'm going to disband this leader in New York and see if I can still select a Palace build. If I can't then we'll use the shields for a Market or something.

BTW. I think the Great Library must be disabled in this game. We can 't select it to build, and no one else is building it. So bang goes that option!

:ack: It failed :cry: I had to select Palace build first, of course. Then disbanded the leader, and the shields to complete the palace remained at 400. :( We've definitely missed some subtle trick in this game, but I can't see it.

:cry: :mad: First of all, sorry I have been missing. :sad:

Our phone line is toast, so much noise the modems can't connect. We're working on it, but I don't know how long it will be. Had to go to my parents house and use there ancient old PC to even send this.

@Alan - Please do whatever you need to do to open up a second core. Even if Moscow is laid low for a 10 turns, it will be worth it in th eend, imho. And thanks for coming up with the idea. I haven't been able to figure out a way to open up a second core.

If I come up and you haven't heard from me, please feel free to skip me without the 24 hour notice. As soon as I can, I will come up and let you know.
@Gator - Please do this in GOTM redo succession game as well.
Hope to be back soon.

Hi leif. Sorry to hear about your line problems.

Here's my turn log. Not a pretty sight - if you are of a nervous disposition, look away now.

850 AD Preflight
We could take peace with Spain now or take out Santiago first. Think I'll take Santiago. We need to move some units towards Barcelona before we grab it anyway, otherwise it will be undefended.

Changed a couple of cities on the north coast of the northern continent from harbour to barracks, as harbours up there will not provide secure trading links. We need a harbour on the south coast.

IBT Vikings want lots of cash for peace. What's that all about?
Japan lands a settler on teh 2-tile island SE of our horses. Americal settlers head west - well, they would, wouldn't they ;) Egypt sends an axeman towards Seville. Barb horses approach. One dies at teh horse colony. Moscow completes a horse, starts a knight. Lahore's resistance ends.

860 AD
Upgrade horse to knight (80). Knight dfrom Moscow pillages iron road. Moscow -> horse. Worker starts rebuild.

@Santiago 4/4 knight kills 3/3pike and takes city.

Sell peace to Spain for Gunpwoder, Printing Press, Valencia, Barcelona, Murcia, 27 gold, WM. Valencia and barcelona start barracks.
10/14 army kills Egyptian Axeman -> 7/14.
Elite knight kills Egyptian settler escort. 2 workers used to slow American settlers down heading for the horse/iron peninsula.
All the AI have Chemistry. It's very expensive. No one is building or has built the Great Library, and we can't build it !!! :eek: It looks like it isn't in this game. I was hoping we'd be able to capture it and slingshot some techs.

Abandon Murcia and Santiago.

IBT Zulus want Gunpowder for peace. Sorry, not today.
Japan founds Yokohama on teh 2-tile island. A japanese unit attacks our knight near Thebes and dies. A French knight lands at Barcelona. We don't have a unit near enough to defend it. We're going to lose it :cry:. Barb horses approach.

870 AD
Troops heal. Knight heads towards Barcelona, but it'll be too late.

IBT India wants peace. Would give Karachi. Not good enough. Mongols offer TM swap. Counter with WM swap - OK. Japanese Axeman aproaches knight near Alexandria. French knight captures Barcelona. Barb horse attacks knight en route to Barcelona and dies, but knight loses 2HP so will have to rest. Barb horse moves into fur forest outide Moscow and disrupts our delicately balanced production, so no horse :(

880 AD
5/5 Knight kills Japanese Axeman and creates Lenin.
Knight kills barb horse at Moscow. Decide to buy an alliance with America vs. Egypt for 68 gold + WM. This will keep American settlers under control and give Egyptian units someone else to harass.
Rush barracks in New York (52 gold) to use up shields. Have an idea that a disbanded leader might give us 250 shields towards a Palace there, so Lenin heads that way covered by a knight.

IBT Arabs land 2 units nerar Toulouse. Our archers can't get tehre in time to defend it, so we'll lose it next turn. Moscow builds horse, starts horse. New York completes barracks starts palace. Anotehr barb horse appears outside Moscow to disrupt production.

890 AD
Archer kills Arab Axeman near Toulouse. Arab archer remains. 2nd Archer moves to threaten Toulouse after we lose it.
Upgrade Moscow horse. Moscow knight kills barb horse, promotes.
Dispband Lenin in New York and ..... we lose the shields. Disband shields are no good for Palaces :cry:

IBT Iroquois settle Ganogeh on the east coast of our island. Japanese land two Samurai near Toulouse. Very nasty! Arabs take Toulouse. Viking archer lands near New York.

900 AD. Move knights from Moscow past road pillage tile, warrior pillages road. worker starts rebuilding it. One knight heads for horse colony to reinforce against Samurai. near barcelona, 4/4 knight dies vs French elite knight, redlines him.
Forgot to reassign citizens on Moscow after barb distruption, so short rush horse for 32 gold via Spear.
5/5 knight from New York kills Viking archer
4/4 knight kills Egyptian axeman, redlined, promoted to 2/5.
Archers take cover in teh woods near Toulouse, as there's no point in capturing it. The Samurai would take it.

IBT Samurai go for our archers and kill them. They are still a thret to our horse colony. The French redlined knight destroys our iron colony! Help :cry:
A zulu Impi arrives near Valencia. Moscow completes horse, starts horse

910 AD.
Knight moves into horse colony threatened by samurai - 3/4 and 4/4
Elite knight kills French 1/5 knight at iron colony. Spear moves out of Valecia to defend worker chopping forest against Impi..

IBT Samurai attaack horse colony. One retreats from spear and inflicts no damage. Secons one kills spear and redlines, promotes to 2/5.
Egyptian axeman kills American spear escorting settler. Impi at Valencia attacks spear and dies. No damage.

920 AD
Elite knight kills Egyprian axeman flawlessly. vet knight kills 2/5 samurai at horse colony. Redlines :eek: There's still a redlined samurai at large.

IBT America & India make peace. Redlined samurai attacks our redlined knight and dies :phew: A French stack lands near Valencia. moscow horse-> horse. Road completed but no colony on the iron. India builds Chittagong on the horses near Thebes. That town covers horses and iron when expanded. We should capture it when it gets to pop 2.

930 AD. We are threatened by French stack: 2 knights, one LB, one Musketeer AND A CAVALRY! We have two horses, one knight, a spear and a warrior. I decide to make peace. I briefly considered letting France take Moscow and jump our palace to teh northern continent, but I couldn't bring myself to do it :(

Make peace with France for 20 gpt + 299 gold + WM. (We paid them, BTW :eek: )

IBT The entire French stack moves off into the western mountains, presumably to raid the barb camp over there. Another stack arrives near Valencia, which turns out to be three Arabian Cataphracts.

940 AD Elite knight kills a cataphract, loses 3 hp. Vet knight and warrior reinforce the iron colony.

IBT Cataphract kills 2/5 knight unharmed.Cataphract dies vs spear, inflicts no damage. Another cataphract lands. Moscow horse -> worker to replace the one that rebuilt the iron colony.

950 AD.
Upgrade horse.
Vet knight kills Egyptian archer near Thebes.
Vet knight dies vs. Egyptian axeman, takes two hp.
Elite* knight kills the wounded Egyptian axeman.

After action report.

I didn't enjoy this set, and probably didn't play it optimally - too much Christmas pudding? I think we have the same number of cities I started with, and about the same number of knights. We've lost two archers.

There are two Arabian cataphracts near Valencia. One is hiding in the fog. I didn't hit them this turn asonly one knight can reach, and he would be exposed to counter-attack by the second one. They'll either hit the spear again, or the iron colony, or both.

We are paying 20 gpt to France for peace, and we have about 14 turns alliance with America vs. Egypt. We are way behind in techs, given that France has Cavalry riding around.

After reading Alan's report I'm starting to wonder if some of the earlier finishing teams might have lost their game.

Good thought on possibly letting Moscow get captured. If we have enough power/troops to recapture Moscow that might be a good way to get a strong core going. Do you think the AI might raze it though? I watched the AI raze the Great Library city (after it expired) in a recent GOTM.

Sounds like we desperately need more troops to continue on the offensive.

Ahah! I wonder if that's where the Library went! I had a feeling the Chinese had it at one point, so p'raps they lost it and it was razed?

I don't know what prompts the AI to raze a city. Maybe it depends on the corruption it would experience - when they take a city that's 100% corrupt they may raze it. For France that might qualify Moscow for razing.

[EDIT] I just reloaded the last save and confirmed that Beijing is not in the game. Zulus and Vikings have been at work, and the Chinese have been mostly banished to offshore islands. Only Shanghai remains on the southern mainland. So I'm pretty sure that's where the Library went.

:eek: Managed to get in this morning.

Sounds like a very difficult turn set Alan. :goodjob: You seem to have managed it well, although I'm quite sure your mouse hand was sweating it out. :hatsoff:

I'm glad you tried the palace build with the disbanded leader, too bad it didn't work. :wallbash: There has to be a way to get a forbidden palace built before the end of time?

Got to finish before I'm chucked out. Good luck Capt. ;)

AlanH - Just played
Capt Buttkick UP
DJMGator13 - on deck
leif erikson
Mistfit

Good luck Captain. We're bogged down at the moment. Let's hope someone can rub a couple of brain cells together and find a way through.

I'm here. Have not been able to get much PC time over the holidays. This will be the case until Jan 2nd, so if someone else wants it, go ahead and I'll grab it afterwards.

Well, I doubt if anyone else is going to get it faster, given that the end of the year is nigh. I've already managed to overrun the 72 hour rule for my turns, so I'm hardly in a position to enforce it over this period. Anyone else want a piece of the action before Sunday? Otherwise we can just wait for the Captain to recover from whatever happens in Norway at this time of year. Presumably it involves Akvavit and raw herrings? :D

Happy New Year.

And a small riddle ;)
How much would a city working a game forest, three mined hills and one irrigated plains produce at just under 50% corruption?
And what if one could get waste even further down or population up to work more tiles ?
:p

Well, I doubt if anyone else is going to get it faster, given that the end of the year is nigh. I've already managed to overrun the 72 hour rule for my turns, so I'm hardly in a position to enforce it over this period. Anyone else want a piece of the action before Sunday? Otherwise we can just wait for the Captain to recover from whatever happens in Norway at this time of year. Presumably it involves Akvavit and raw herrings? :D

:lol: We've all got small children and make it a point not to drink around them so there won't be much alcohol. We've had plenty of raw, smoked salmon over the holiday, though.
For the feast this eve we'll have turkey and for dessert I've made Queen Maud's pudding, named after the British princess who became queen of Norway. It's all eggs, sugar and cream topped with dark chocolate so look out for a fat me come Sunday :lol:

Happy New Year.

And a small riddle ;)
How much would a city working a game forest, three mined hills and one irrigated plains produce at just under 50% corruption?
And what if one could get waste even further down or population up to work more tiles ?
:p


6, I believe. I absolutely see your point. Quite possibly I should have steered our invasion elsewhere, towards the closest, shield-rich opponent, rushed a courthouse with a GL and started the FP while adding workers. *Sigh* Live and learn AGAIN
Come back, klarius. I think we could have won this with you on our team ;)
Happy new year everyone [party]

Gee thanks...Happy New Year Everyone.

:) Sorry if that sounded like I dissed you, Misfit. It's been a pleasure playing with you.
I'm pretty sure you're being ironic, but just in case, remember our goals when you joined ;) this sgotm, no spoons. The next, laurels and glory :cool:

Progress report:
Unexpected family visitors today, play tomorrow.

Hi All - Happy New Year.

Hopefully, I can get back to participating more regularly as the phone company tach is due tomorrow. Figures, as things are clearing up without them.

Thanks for the New Year's tip Klarius.

I guess I'll state the obvious from reading. Surveying the New York area, I was thinking that perhaps we should either build a library to get it to expand, 11 turns (9 to build and 3 to expand). During that time, we should mine the hills to the SE and road the forest game. Then it is 31 turns to a Forbidden Palace?

We can make peace with India for 65 Gold and 4 GPT, if this us the time we need to get ourselves established.

That sounds like a plan. We certainly need to get back on our feet. We aren't going to win any prizes with this one, or even come close, but at least let's try not to lose the game. BTW, I don't think those early finishers were losses, given the shape of their score curves.

That sounds like a plan. We certainly need to get back on our feet. We aren't going to win any prizes with this one, or even come close, but at least let's try not to lose the game. BTW, I don't think those early finishers were losses, given the shape of their score curves.
I'm with you Alan. We promised Misfit no wooden spoons!! :eek:

Good luck Capt. :king:

EDIT - BTW - I'm back! :rolleyes: Technician showed up today (A day early? :eek: ) and found a rotten connection in their wiring. He fixed it and I'm ready to roll!! :rolleyes:

Hi!!! Just came to say hi and happy new years!!!! :)

Looks like you are not getting Golden Laurel. :sad:

....but on the bright side... you still can win spam laurel, but you have to try REAALLLLY hard to beat Smacksters this time around. :lol:

Happy New Year to all our lurkers ... and gloaters ;)

Sorry, klarius. I misunderstood you anyway :lol:

Well, w're closer to the FP:

Preflight: Switch New York to Library. Switch Buffalo to Spear, the Vikings have amphibious forces. Btw, why are we still mining tundra?
IBT: Moscow worker --> knight. Atlanta horse --> longbow (should be switched to horse or knight later).
Turn 1 - 960 A.D. Kill Arab Cataphract. Retreat on the Egyptian front to heal. Hurry library in New York.
IBT: New York library --> FP.
Turn 2 - 970 A.D. Kill a Cataphract. Kill vet Indian longbow outside New York.
IBT: French cav appears next to our iron colony :(
Turn 3 - 980 A.D. Loose a vet knight to a reg Egyptian MI :(
Turn 4 - 990 A.D. Nothing.
IBT: Wltc day in New York, FP in 32.
Turn 5 - 1000 A.D. Nothing.
IBT: Lahore is just barely defended after an attack by an elephant. Moscow knight --> knight. Philadelphia rax --> longbow. Miami rax --> longbow.
Turn 6 - 1010 A.D. Kill 2 cataphracts.
IBT: loose an injured knight.
Turn 7 - 1020 A.D. Kill a cataphract.
IBT: Chicago rax --> longbow.
Turn 8 - 1030 A.D. Hurry harbor in Toledo.
IBT: loose a recovering knight to a cataphract. Toledo harbor --> rax.
Turn 9 - 1040 A.D. Kill Indian reg MI. Kill hurt cataphract and samurai on Moscow continent.
IBT: Loose a knight. Seville rax --> longbow. Valencia rax --> longbow.
Turn 10 - 1050 A.D. Get peace and Chemistry from Japan for 27 gpt and 322 gold. Switch all longbows to knights.

I suggest we add american workers to New York. If we have to, pick off the last added citizen to keep the city in wltc day.
I didn't shortrush, sorry, forgot to. That's one of the things I'm supposed to have learnt from playing sgotms :sad:
We need to do it in our next turnset, though. We can't afford to loose knights on our home continent at the current rate and we need to hold on to Moscow when we're this close to the FP.

I've got guest at the house so I'm not sure when I'll have time to play until the weekend. So if someone wants to swap.

Good going Captain. Yes, the Viking Galloglass (aka Berserk) is amphibious, 6.2.1, available with Invention, needs no resources. Quite nasty!

Here's the roster - a bit confused. Let me know how you might play it?

AlanH
Capt Buttkick - Just played
DJMGator13 not available until the weekend. Pick up after leifand/or Mistfit?
leif erikson UP back in business :thumbsup:
Mistfit - on deck, but stay loose to maybe let Gator back in

Sounds like things are getting exciting on the home continent, Capt. :eek: You seem to have held them off though! :goodjob:

I've got it. Will look it over in the morning after a GOOD night's sleep :sleep: and see if there are any questions to ask.

Well, one now, if you don't mind. :mischief: I see in your log a number of longbow builds, were you short rushing these? I'm still not too good at short rushing, and since you mentioned that we need to use this technique, I want to make sure I have it down. And, if we are short rushing, that has to mean that we are no longer cutting the iron and reconnecting? Sorry, I haven't read everything yet to catch up. ;)

I wanted to plant a forest or two so we could get to 18 spt which would give a knight every 4 turns. So we didn't have a worker available for reconnecting the iron.

The last paragraph of turn 10 should explain the longbow builds. I switched them to knights once we connected our resources to the American continent.

I didn't really do a good job on the home continent, should have made peace with either the Arabs or the Japanese earlier. I also wasted a couple of knights from poor placement of units, should have brought them all to mountains/hills or into Moscow.

I'm going into a pretty intensive period of work on the house we're building, trying to finish before end of March, when we have another addition to the family...
Also, as you may know, my job is as an economics advisor and January is one of the two busiest months of the year for me :cry:

I will try to follow this sgotm to the end, but I hope you'll all be lenient towards me switching/skipping turns. I have to let the next one go and then hopefully join up again for Sgotm 7 :thumbsup:

I'm pretty sure you're being ironic
Of course I was kidding :D I have had a lot of fun playing with you gentlemen.

I'm back from the land of the living dead (I've had the flu for the last 7 days :( ) I'm feeling a bit better so I'm back at work. Good Progress on the game. Just keep me informed as to when you want me to play. I will be gone on business between January 10th and January 14th. I have a conference in Louisville KY for the week. I will put a reminder in my sig shortly.

I've had a good look and there are plenty of things we have to do!! :eek:

First, diplomacy. We are at war with Egypt, Aztecs, Arabs, Vikings, Zulus, and India. We are weak versus the Arabs and Vikings, average versus the Aztecs and Zulu and strong versus Egypt and India. That is good news anyway! :mischief: Especially since we have only 9 Knights! :rolleyes:

While we are at peace with Japan, and weak compared to them, they pose the greatest threat to our horse farm. I think we need to watch how Matsuyama grows as its expansion will take our colony! :eek: Although, we can also get horsies up north, so perhaps it isn't worth going ot war over, atm.

On production, we have 18 turns to a FP in New York, :goodjob: Capt. I'll see if I can't get another hill mined and shorten that a little bit. Our greatest threat up north is the possibility of flips. I'm surprised we haven't seen more of them. Using MapStat, I made a copy of the chart and attached it.

Research. Looks like we need to get to Cavalry asap! CprMapstat shows that not too many civs have Metallurgy yet, so it looks like we need to try and save some gold for tech buys.

Priorities. I am thinking that we need to get America and India folded up as soon as we can and use their cities with our FP build. There are horse available to us up north if we can get a couple of cultural expansions or use a captured worker to make a colony, should Japan take our horse colony on our continent.

I don't think I should do too much warmongering until we can get the north productive, would hate to lose New York, and some peace may allow us to buy the tech we need to get to Cavs. However, I know that this is a race against time. Mostly, how fast can America, India and Egypt reconstitute their forces? This is a weak part of my game as I always tend to wait too long. I'd like to hear what you guys think about timing of war and opponents?

India has 8 cities and America 10. India is pretty spread out, not as productive perhaps as America. America has a lot of jungle though. Looking at things, I think most of our Knights may be needed to maintain Moscow. :eek:

Let's see, what do we have for good news and bad. The bad is easy, Philadelphia flipped back to America. :cry: The good news is that we are very close to a Forbidden Palace in New York and Moscow is safe and secure, for now! :rolleyes:

<< The Save >> (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Xteam_SG005_AD1150_01.SAV)

The turn log:

Turn 220 – 1050 AD
Pre-flight.
Micromanage Philadelphia to slow growth as it has 7 citizens already.
Everything else looks good, so I press enter.

IBT
Our Iron Colony is attacked by a Vet Zulu Knight who retreats after inflicting 1 HP damage on our Elite Warrior! :viking: Thank you RNG. ;)
A Viking Reg Archer lands beside our eSpear near Valencia.
The Egyptians request an audience. They want a peace treaty and I decide to give it to them. For peace they give us the city of Asyut, an American worker and 10 Gold.
Moscow Knight => Longbow.

Turn 221 – 1060 AD
Worker near Moscow roads.
Newly built Vet Knight from Moscow to Iron Colony and kills the redlined Zulu Knight.
American Worker joins our worker NE of Moscow.
Asyut is located on the far eastern side of Egypt and build is set to pike.

IBT
Viking Archer moves south towards Iron Colony.
Indian Longbow moves next to Atlanta.
Philadelphia flips back to America. Darn it!!!! :eek: :wallbash: [pissed] I was afraid of that happening.

Turn 222 – 1070 AD
Worker stack near New York SW onto hill and their accompanying Knight joins them.
Knight near Moscow covers Iron Colony.
Vet Knight form Lahore attacks Vet Indian Longbow and defeats him without loss.
American Worker plants forest.

IBT
The English are building Smith’s Trading Company.
The AI is moving about but nothing is threatening.

Turn 223 – 1080 AD
Our Knight returns to Lahore.
Knight on Iron Colony attacks Viking Reg Archer and defeats him without loss, then head north.
Short rush Longbow in Moscow for 32 Gold and switch to Knight, due in 2 turns.
All the workers near New York mine, 4 turns to complete.

IBT
There are 2 French Knight cantering about near Moscow, for what, I don’t want to know!!

Turn 224 – 1090 AD
Fortify Knight in Lahore.
Board Knight from Iron Colony bound for the northern provinces.
Wake Galley and move northwest.
Worker near Moscow plants a forest.

IBT
Indian Longbow moves towards Atlanta.
The Japanese are landing troops near our horse colony.
Arab troops, 2 Axemen and an Archer land near Valencia.
French troops are heading for St. Louis and Barcelona, 2 Knights, a Cavalry, a Musketeer and a Longbowman.
America and France have signed a Military Alliance against the Arabs, good news!
France and America have signed a Military Alliance against Egypt.
Moscow Knight => Longbow.

Turn 225 – 1100 AD
Knight from Moscow heads north.
Worker moves into Valencia.
Recall the Knight loaded aboard the Galley and unload in Valencia.
MM Madrid.
I keep checking to see if any of our brother civs will have mercy on us and trade Metallurgy to us cheap, but I’m afraid it is futile!
We trade furs to England for 12 GPT.
I decide we need to get chummy with France and trade furs to Joannie for 21 GPT, that gets us our gold back again. Now maybe we can afford Metallurgy sooner.

IBT
The Japanese show up and say the following:
“Rumor has it that your troops near Matsuyama were searching for honey, but now that I tell you there is none I am sure you will be gone”. I apologize.
The Japanese capture Toulouse and take over our Horse colony when they expand to cover the area!
The French attack the Arab stack near Valencia with a Knight and defeat an Axeman. The Archer moves on and the other Axeman attacks the French Knight and loses.
The Iroquois and Chinese are building Smith’s Trading Company.

Turn 226 – 1110 AD
Take an Egyptian Worker out of the stack near New York to build a colony on the horses near there, that will require 3 turns. I can short rush the longbow next turn and then change the build to courthouse as a pre-build for another Knight. We shouldn’t lose any time on this.
Reload the Knight in Valencia onto a Galley for shipment northwest. Move Galley.
Vet Knight from Lahore attacks an Indian Longbow near Atlanta and defeats him, losing 2 HP.

IBT
China declared war on the Americans.
Spain and American have signed a Military Alliance against China. Spain declares war on China.

Turn 227 – 1120 AD
Forgot to move our Knight from the horse colony last turn, so begin moving him out.
Knight back to Lahore.
Egyptian Worker headed for Horses.
Short rush Longbowman for 32 Gold, change build to courthouse.
Atlanta grew to size 7; MM back to “We Love the Czarina Day”. Gain a shield of production.
IBT
Indians are moving another Longbow towards Atlanta.
The Keltoi wish to speak to us. They want to trade World Maps, as long as we give them 22 gold for the privilege. I tell them No Thanks, not today.
The Japanese are angry with us because I moved the Knight next to their city. I beg their forgiveness and our Knight move automatically.
I got fright when an American Axeman moved through the horse square and I thought he was going to stop there, but he moved 1 more square, phew!!

Turn 228 – 1130 AD
Workers near New York complete the mine and start building a road, it doesn’t require them all, so one moves towards the other hill.
Egyptian Worker builds a colony on the horses near New York.
MM New York, FP in 8 more turns.
Knight offloads Galley into Lahore, Galley returns to Valencia.
Change production in Moscow to Knight.


IBT
Indian Longbow moves up to Atlanta.
France comes to renegotiate our peace treaty, I accept her offer of peace straight up. Of course, had I refused, she had a Musketeer and a Longbow waiting to attack our Iron Colony.
A Spanish Caravel comes up the bay near Moscow?
Moscow Knight => Longbow.
We have a report of massive barbarian uprising near, where else, Asyut! Not much we can do about it, hope the Egyptians are on the ball.

Turn 229 – 1140 AD
Knight north to Iron Colony.
Elite Knight from Horse Colony now is at the Iron Colony.
Vet Knight in Lahore attacks an Indian Longbow near Atlanta and defeats him losing 2 HP.
Worker to another hill near New York.
MM Atlanta for shields, gain 1.

IBT
Buffalo Spear => Harbor.
We are notified that the English are building Newton’s University, this isn’t good.

Turn 230 – 1150 AD
Spear fortifies in Buffalo.
Worker begins mine near New York.
Workers plant forest outside of Moscow. MM Moscow so that we are now producing 19 Shields per turn, minus 1 corrupt one, for a net of 18 SPT. That is a Knight every 4 turns without short rushing, although we will still have to short rush this one next turn.

After Action Report.
Militarily, we have 12 Knights, 2 Workers, 2 Warriors, 2 Spears, 1 Horseman, 2 Galleys and 1 Army. Our Military Advisor reports we are strong versus Egypt, Keltoi, England, China, Mongols, India and Spain. We are average versus Aztecs, Arabs, Iroquois, Vikings, and Zulus. We are weak versus France and Japan. Guess who is wandering all over our home ground, France and Japan.

Diplomatically, I resigned a peace deal with France, straight up, and it is good for another 18 turns. I also traded with France and got 21 GPT for our furs, which is good for another 5 turns. Our other furs went to England for 12 GPT and is also good for another 15 turns. We are at peace with Egypt, America, France, Iroquois, Japan, Keltoi, England, China, Mongols, and Spain. That leaves us at war with the Aztecs, Arabs, Vikings, Zulus and Indians.

EDIT - The furs deal with France is good for another 15 turns, not 5 as stated in the log.

On the home front, I’m afraid Philadelphia flipped back to America. We have 454 gold in the treasury and are making 84 GPT. So far, no bites on Metallurgy, although I tried every turn. The Forbidden Palace is due in 6 turns in New York. We lost our Horse Colony on our continent but I was able to reestablish it near New York. Once we take Washington, it’ll be secure.

Need to keep an eye on the French and Japanese as they are aggressively moving about our home continent. The French threatened our Iron Colony before asking for a renegotiated peace treaty, which I haven’t seen the AI do before.

Firaxis Score = 265, Jason = 174.

Please remember that the Longbow build in Moscow still requires a short rush next turn to get a Knight in 4 turns. After that, you should get one every 4 turns without short rushing.

Good luck Misfit, or whoever slips in next. :thumbsup: Please feel free to change any build you wish to help us achieve victory sooner. The only build I am really unsure of is the Harbor in Madrid, but I didn’t change it.

One question: was the alliance we had with America against Egypt over when you peaced with them?
Although not a gamebreaker, it would be a bad way to loose our rep. We're soon in a position where we can get some techs for loads of gpt to get to MT and then break all trades to start conquering the world :hammer:

I'm pretty sure you checked the alliance and it's a :goodjob: anyway leif ;)

One question: was the alliance we had with America against Egypt over when you peaced with them?
I went back and checked and you're right, I screwed this up. :blush: I missed that we had an alliance and there were 1 or 2 turns left when I made the peace deal, sorry about that. That won't help our getting to MT. :cry:

EDIT - Speaking of deals, the furs deal with France is good for another 15 turns, not 5 as stated in the log. I edited the log this morning.

Good progress leif. Pity about the trade deal, but we can cope. At least we won't be tempted to give ourselves a bad rep among the other teams by reneging on a big juicy gpt deal.

The roster looks like this. If Mistfit and I can get two sets in by the weekend, and if Capt. wants to skip, then Gator can pick up in his normal slot.

AlanH - on deck
Capt Buttkick - may skip
DJMGator13 - not available until the weekend. Skipped.
leif erikson - Just played
Mistfit UP

Go Mistfit :thumbsup:

OK.. I've got it

The plan...Kick Ghandi's butt... If I can get a couple of cities for peace is it worth it? Or should we take him out completely right from the git?

Note that we have a horse in New York that could be upgraded to add to our Indian hammer.

We still seem to be very underpowered to try to take on Ghandi and hold any gains we make. If we manage to take Indian cities for peace can we hold them?

We still seem to be very underpowered to try to take on Ghandi and hold any gains we make. If we manage to take Indian cities for peace can we hold them?
This is my concern as well. I was thinking that if we can get the FP built and get a couple of cities pumping out Knights, we would then have a replacement stream working to keep ourselves afloat.

The decision is yours Misfit, good luck. I just completed my set in Gator's 100K and made some wild decisions. :rolleyes: Phew, it got a little bit intense for a while!! :D I may have over committed us, but time will tell. :mischief: Hope you guys are still talking to me tomorrow. :eek:

I will play between tonight and tomorow morning.

@leif - I like what you've started over at the other game.

If Mistfit and I can get two sets in by the weekend, and if Capt. wants to skip, then Gator can pick up in his normal slot.


That sounds good to me. The new job is going well. I now spend 2.5 hours a day commuting. When my company leaves next week I should be able to get some civ time in when I get home from work. This is the longest period I have gone without playing civ in a long time. I haven't even had time to finish my GOTM38 and I have a real good game going in that one.

<<<THE SAVE>>> (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Xteam_SG005_AD1250_01.SAV)

Pre-Turn
Short rush a Longbow for 96 Gold in Moscow for 96 gold and switch to Knight
Short rush a Longbow in Valencia for 96 Gold and switch to Knight
Upgrade the Horse in New York
Move units into Indian Terriorty

IBT:
Zulu and China sign a MA against us
The Vikings drop off a unit directly into Valencia and take the city and 7 gold.
Spain drops off a settler pair close to our iron colony
The Egyptians and Americans battle in our lands.

Turn 1 (1160AD)
I'm going to have to go to war with Spain to keep from loosing our iron.
Declare on the Spanish (I checked and we had no outstanding deals with them.
eKnight kills rSpear (Spain) -1hp gain 2 workers.
Rush a Knight in Atlanta for 68 Gold
Move Move Knights to take back Valencia

Battle of Madras
*eKnight does no damage to vPike but redlines and retreats
rKnight dies attacking vPike he's redlined but promo's
eKnight kills vPike but is redlined
Another vPike comes to the top

Rush rax in Lahore 32 gold

IBT
Madrid finishes Harbor and starts a Longbow
Moscow Knight to Longbow
Atlanta the same
Lahore Rax to warrior we need them in costal towns to keep the vikings at bay
Vikings bring more reinforcements to Valencia
Vikings building Newton's
Mongol's building Smiths

Turn 2 (1170AD)
Move knights and workers north towardsValencia
Retreat wounded knights in the Indian front

IBT
Zzz...

Turn 3 (1180 AD)
Fort wounded Knights in NY

Reclaiming of Valencia

4hp eKnight redlins and retreats vs rGalloglass -1hp
vKnight dies vs 2hp Golloglass redlined but promo'ed
vKnight kills 2 hp vGolloglass no damage and we take back Valencia Start on a longbow

My two remaining knights get loaded in a galley and head towards the Front

The spear in the forest sits gets INSIDE Valencia

Our 2 captured workers get loaded and head north as well

Hurry longbow and switch in Moscow for 88 gold

IBT:
Japan wants TM and 29 gold... I cave
England building Shakes
An eJag Warrior and Longbow show up in the Mtn's to the south of Asyut

Turn 4 (1190 AD)
I rush the Pike in Asyut (it's undefended) for 64 gold
Hurry warrior in Lahore for 32 gold
Resting and Moving
Workers finish the forest in Moscow (it still only has 19 shields - 1 of em is corrupt)

IBT
I forgot that the JW was a fast mover and they move in and destroy Asyut
The Japanese are tresspassing on our Moscow territory
An Indian Longbow retreats a Knight off the hill outside of Madras
Zuland drops a rBowman off at Valencia

Turn 5 (1200AD)
Pilage the road to the iron and change production in Moscow to a Horseman (2 turns)
Move the knight in Moscow directly infront of the Japenese Axeman
eKnight is redlined but kills the rLongbow next to Valencia

IBT
Vikings offer peace for 240 gold...nah
Arabs building Shakes
Indians building Smith's

Turn 6 (1210 AD)

2nd try at Madras
*eKnight does no damage to ePike and retreats
rKnight takes 1 hp off of ePike and retreats
rKnight does no damage to vPike and dies
rKnight takes 1 hp from vPike and dies
Another vPike shows up so I will back off (loosing to many knights)

IBT:
A Damn War Elephant shows up Outside of Madras
The Vikings come with 2 Gallowglas and kill our eSpear and Redlined pikes in Valencia and burn it to the ground. (I guess I should have taken the peace offering :suicide: )
EGY and AMER sign peace
Arabs and America sign Peace
Moscow from Horse to Knight (temp)
FP finishes in NY Start a Knight (temp)

Turn 7 (1220AD)
Run away mostly
Change everyones builds to horseman

IBT
Seville horseman to horseman
Lahore Warrior to warrior
Miami Spear to Harbor

Turn 8 ( 1230AD)
Retreating and Healing
Rush the horse in Atlanta for 34gold because the road to the iron will be done next turn
Same in Chi-Town for 24 gold

IBT:
The big hefelump kills our brave warrior but is redlined
Another War Elephant shows up
Madrid Horse to Knight Needs to be Switched once the road is cut

Turn 9 (1240AD)
eWarrior Kills the big bad Elephant outside of Lahore
Upgrade Horses to Knights
Shoot I forgot to upgrade the horse in Moscow before I cut the road again

IBT
Indian Lbow kills our Elephant killing warrior
Indian Elephant dies attacking or 2 hp vKnight in Lahore and he goes Elite
A Mongol settler pair heads towards our horse supply
NY Horse to Horse
Lahore warrior to warrior

Turn 10 (1250AD)
The Indian ePike dies much easier now that he's in our territory and on flat ground - killed by *eKnight
Add 2 workers to NewYork 1 American and one Egyptian to bring production to 15spt

Hand Down Report:
We now have 3 Horseman (at least 2 nore next turn) and 13 Knights
We may consider Getting peace from some of our foes to get our breath and start killing them off one at a time?
The Viking Galoglass is headed towards our troops on the mountain/Iron
If we stay at war with the Vikings make sure we don't leave costal cities ungaurded.
I'd say we have enough to take Units to take on Madaras now.
I'd use the Army to take out the ePike if he's still there
Toledo is our only coastal non guarded city right now

Tough Turnset!

Tough set, Mistfit.Still, we have more knights now than when I last looked. Viking Galloglass are lethal even if we put defenders in. They have attack = 6, which will take out a pike or a knight with a high probablility, and they must be on their Golden Age now as it's their UU. Peace sounds tempting.

AlanH UP
Capt Buttkick - still a skip?
DJMGator13 - on deck
leif erikson
Mistfit - Just played

@Gator: Assuming Capt is skipping, if you have a narrow window during the weekend, would it be best for us to swap and you take it now?

@Gator: Assuming Capt is skipping, if you have a narrow window during the weekend, would it be best for us to swap and you take it now?

That sounds good. I can play this one first and then try to get a round in on Gator01. Pretty bad when your getting skipped in your own named game :crazyeye: My company leaves Tuesday night so I should be more frequent after that.

OK. You're UP.

AlanH - on deck
Capt Buttkick - still a skip?
DJMGator13 UP
leif erikson
Mistfit - Just played

Yes, tough set indeed. But we now have a Forbidden Palace and some production! :goodjob:

I am hoping that we can have a discussion of our current position. imho, we are surviving but I'm not sure we can easily turn that into conquest:

First, we are expending resources, Knights and gold, nearly as fast as we obtain them. We now have more Knights, but it cost us in gold. With 5 Horses to upgrade next turn, there will be a shortage of gold. This is important, imho, because we need to get to Military Tradition, our UU and our Golden Age. So we are trading off our future by resource cutting, but can we survive without it? Please see the attachment below.

Second, we are reacting to the AI instead of having the initiative. There are a number of reasons for this. imho, perhaps the chief among them is that we are really not addressing things and coming to a concensus. I want you all to tell me how to "suck eggs", to tell me when I screw up and to make me explain why I did something a certain way. It is from this that I can learn and play better and it allows me to feel free to ask why you all do things a certain way.

At this point, I think we need to hunker down a little, make some peace where it is economically feasible, keep wars going that are to our advantage and husband some resources. By doing this, we can get Metallurgy and Military Tradition. In the meantime, we, hopefully, can produce enough Knights to deliver a knock out blow to India and use their cities to produce for our war machine.

Now, please tell me why I am wrong and why there is a better way to go about turning our fortunes around. :) I hope I haven't upset anyone, but I am trying to figure out how to get turned around and know I am not smart enough by myself to do so. But I think that together we can figure it out and I feel as though I am not contributing enough to our team effort. :blush:

@leif: A good summary of what we need to do, but why do you think there is any disagreement? We all agree we need to get to Mil Trad asap. I warned it may be premature to go after India during Mistfit's turns, and I think the losses he sustained bear that out. But maybe India would have come at us harder if he hadn't. Those are the tactical judgement calls made by the player with the mouse. I think we all agree that we need peace with the Vikings.

We now have the opportunity to build a treasury and more troops using our second core. It will take a little while to get into full swing. I haven't looked at the save to see where we stand on gpt, but we should balance expenditure on rushes and upgrades against building a piggy bank to buy the two remaining techs we need.

I'd like more general discussion in the thread as well. Our style has traditionally been chatty, but with RL pressures on all of us over the vacation period that hasn't been possible. I'm not sure we'd have achieved any more if it had been otherwise though.

Are you suggesting we need to discuss some more specific goals before Gator plays?

I'll take a look at the situation and post a game plan before I play.

@leif - this is a great time for a quick discussion, since I haven't played in awhile and have barely had time to read thru the prior turn logs. You have made some good points. Here are my thoughts.

-------------------------

The game sure has changed since I last played in 650AD. After a brief review of the game here is what I think we need to do. We have some wars going right know that are not benefiting us, unfortanately most people want gold and/or gpt for peace.

1) We should make peace with Spain right now (gaining us METAL, EDUC, Wmap and 102gold) - plus this starts the 20 turn peace treaty clock. This also allows us to start researching at 90% towards Military Tradition in 11-12 turns. This will leave us with very little cash but we can shut off research after that and earn money for upgrade. Any tech research after MT come thru pointy stick method.

2) Continue war with India mainly for their iron source and also to eliminate them. We will need the iron if we lose the colony near Moscow to expansions.

3) Make peace with Vikings, China, Arabs & Zululand as they are offered - not worth paying for peace unless we are about to lose a city.

4) Need to let the size 1 cities near Moscow grow to where we can capture them and form a productive core around Moscow. We knew it would take a while to get to this stage (a productive Moscow core). We should fight a defensive battle near Moscow and/or make peace with everyone who has a city there. Troops made in Moscow should remain there for defense and to build a force to attack with later. If we take India's iron we don't need to worry about defending our iron colony.

5) With the NY core we should be able to continue our military build up and our war plans there.

6) I'd hit America after eliminating India, and then move on towards Spain and Egypt. America is next because it will continue to add productive cities to our NY core.

7) We need to keep cities until we start approaching the DOM limit as to limit having to reconquer lands already battled for. We need to control the NW continent completely before we attempt to engage any of the other civs and we will probably need to ally versus France or maybe even an ROP rape of them later.

I'll wait until this evening to play to give some time for comments.

I think all you've said makes sense. I'm a little more worried about the Vikings than the other suthern civs, because of their UU's attack strength. Once we are on the offensive they'll be easy meat, but we need to maintain active defence against them before then, and our coastal towns are very vulnerable to them, as Mistfit found.

When we reach MT we'll be playing with Cossacks, and our GA will cut in. That should boost our production and upgrade capabilities substantially. Those 20 turns need to be played at high intensity, and should see us turn the game around entirely.

@Alan - Thanks for the reply. I don't think there is disagreement necessarily. I think:
1. That I underappreciate the RL pressures on others and missed having more discussions. It is my expectation that appears to be the problem here. :blush:

2. That I didn't really know if there was disagreement or not because there hasn't been much to read. Perhaps that indicates agreement but I am not always sure of that.

It is important to me that I help the team effort, so tactical decisions I make should fit into a greater context, For example, what is the most efficient way to produce Knights. Is it by short rushing or resource cutting or another means? The reason I pick this example is that there are trade-offs in my decisions that affect how the next player continues. If I am setting up Misfit to conduct an invasion of India, then I should produce Knights the fastest way I can, probably resource cutting if gold is available. If there isn't enough gold, then short rushing may be in order. I am still wrestling with these types of decisions in my "style" of play and am not always sure I do "the best thing". By listening to all of you, it helps me to decide what is best and, often, you all teach me what a good decision or what technique may be most effective for a given situation. It helps me and, I think, the team. Without it, I am not as comfortable. This often leads me to play too conservatively, not taking enough risks.

I hope that helps you to understand what I am trying to say. I suppose it boils down to the fact that I am not as confident in what I am doing as I would like to be. :crazyeye:

@Gator - I agree with almost everything you said. It is a good outline for our near term actions. :goodjob:

The only thing I would question is self-researching Military Tradition. I always have a hard time deciding whether to self-research or buy. The question for me is whether Military Tradition will be widely available among the AI's in 11 or 12 turns, and thus available for purchase, or whether we should spend the gold on research. At around 110 GPT we are now earning, in 11 or 12 turns, we would make around 1200 or 1300 Gold (minus upgrade costs of horses we produce). CivAssist says that Military Tradition should cost us 1096 Gold, but, afaik, only France has it now. In 11 or 12 turns, the price should come down as other civs trade with France or research it themselves. By buying it, we may have enough cash left over to upgrade some of the Knights immediately.

On your 7th point, I am not sure it will be to our advantage to keep cities up to the Domination limit. Keeping the cities on the NW continent, which will be productive, may be enough. The other civs have a cultural advantage over us so we may see a lot of flips. It might be better to get them into wars with one another and eliminate them as we charge across that land mass, keeping a few Barracks cities along the way. But that is a ways off.

Thanks Gator for a well thought out plan of action. :cool: :rockon:

One quick item I'd like to point out is MT will do us no good until we wipe india off the map because the only source of Saltpeter is on the Eastern edge of the Northern Contintent. I completely missed the opportunity will Spain and I appoligize. Personally I like the idea of getting peace with the vikings asap, but it was during my turnset that the Gallosglass showed it's full power.

I need to envoke the skip.
Thanks for your patience.

I need to envoke the skip.
Thanks for your patience.

That's good because I just played :) .


Preturn - 1250AD
- make peace with Spain - gain METAL, EDUC, WMap & 102gold
- discover we are down MUSIC (15 civs), BANK (15 civs), ASTRON (14 civs) and MT (8 civs)
- make peace with ARB gain MUSIC
- make peace with CHN give METAL and 30 gold gain ASTRON
- noone will sell us MT - I'll try to back some gold to purchase it versus trying to research it in 12 turns
- kill the Viking near our iron colony

IBT - renew peace with JPN

Turn 1 - 1255AD
found out I can not only make peace with the VIK but I can get MT from them for 420gold & 35gpt
ZUL will do a similair trade for peace costing us only 27gpt
amazingly everyone who we are at peace with will not trade MT to us even for 136gpt

IBT - 10 civs now have MT

Turn 2 - 1260AD
upgraded all our horses to knights
move troops on Madras

Turn 3 - 1265AD
capture Madras at loss of 3 knights

IBT - lose Lahore to a wounded elephant (only defended by a warrior)

Turn 4 - 1270AD
recapture Lahore

IBT - FRA destroys ARB

Turn 5 - 1275AD
not much

IBT - IND & IRQ sign a TE against us / sell furs to FRA for 23 gpt / VIK ship approaches Moscow

Turn 6 - 1280AD
no upgrades or short rushes this turn - need to make the peace for MT deal with the VIK next turn

IBT - ZUL offer peace for cash - I change deal to peace and MT for 298gold and 28gpt / defeat a VIK attack at Moscow / AZT offer peace for MT - I change it to us giving MT and receiving NAV and Wmap in return / Moscow riots after the VIK attack (not sure why) New York riots also (why?? / did we lose a lux deal?)

Turn 7 - 1285AD
Trade: MT to CHN for PHYS, Wmap & 17 gold

Turn 8 - 1290AD
8 civs should be in the IA now
capture Delhi with Magellan's (lost 2 knights)

IBT - IRQ & VIK sign TE against us

Turn 9 - 1295AD
capture Bangalore

IBT - ZUL & FRA sign MA versus EGY (we need to claim some cities in this war) / Big oops - moved a knight out of Moscow last turn and it riots for the handoff - sorry

Turn 10 - 1300AD
moved troops towards Kolhapur
moved the knight back to Moscow

Notes for next player
1) We may want to make peace with IND after capturing Kolhapur and Jaipur
2) we need to gear up to attack AMR and claim that saltpeter spot
3) FRA is becoming a monster in this game

Wow, Gator! Sounds like we are on our way forwards again. :thumbsup:

AlanH UP
Capt Buttkick - skipped
DJMGator13 - Just played
leif erikson - on deck
Mistfit

I'll get it in the morning, I think. Too dangerous to grab it now .. I might be tempted to play it in the wee small hours :eek:

Give him lemons and he gives us back lemonade! :goodjob: Gator!

Please skip me as necessary. Going to KY for convention. Hopefully be back at the end of the week.

Excellent work Gator!!!! :goodjob: I always like lemonade. :D :clap:

Looking at the save, beware of Delhi, it is a flip risk. Perhaps we should starve it down some. Also, the Indian capital moved to Hyderabad (sp?). I had trouble finding it but it is on a small island over near what was the Arab area. I'll attach a CrpMapStat screenie.

I also found that there is saltpeter under the American city of Detroit. It is located way over to the west, south of our single land tile island city that I can't remember the name of. (tough to get old). :lol: :lol: :lol:

We are average versus America in military strength. Good luck Alan.

EDIT - Hope you have a safe and enjoyable trip, Misfit. :cool:

Also, I heard you guys in Europe had quite an unusual storm. Lots of nasty wind and some flooding. Hope you are all well. :)

Actual I think Mistfit did most of the hard work. I only had to deal with a few counterattacking IND units and whenever that happens it is time to push hard on capturing cities because the AI has all its units designated as defensive. You can usually leave your interior cities undefended and only need to concentrate on the front lines.

Unfortunately we need to hit AMR hard and fast as we are aboiut to encounter rifles and we could really use that saltpeter.

Good luck

I've played to my turn 7. Things are turning sticky again. I'll report in full as soon as possible.

The save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Xteam_SG005_AD1350_01.SAV)

Turn 250 - 1300 AD Preflight.
F1 - set Indian cities to starving taxmen.
MM New York for extra gold. Note that we have some size 6 cities that aren't going to get aqueducts soon and need irrigations turned to mines.

F4 - We have a trashed rep, can't get alliances and we're at war with Vikings and India. Vikings want a lot of money for peace. India will give three cities. Let's wait until we've hurt him some more.

Our WM is way out of date according to Joan, as she wants an arm and a leg for hers, so I set about fixing that. After a lengthy round of map trading I made 173 gold + 5gpt + 1 slave + an up to date WM, and cleaned out most of their treasuries.

The new slave went to help the American slave, who seemed to be planting a forest outside Moscow's 21 tile radius.

IBT England and Spain sign trade embargoes with Vikings against us.
Viking frigate destroys road on game tile at Moscow. America complains about our troops near Bombay. OK, Abe, we'll leave ...
New York knight -> knight
Miami flips :( There was only a spear there.

The happiness poll is published and we're not on it.
France/Iroquois/Japan/Zulu/Mongul/Keltoi/Engand/Egypt.

Turn 251 1305 AD knights arrive outside Kolhapur. Knight kills spear at Jaipur, suffers no damage. Another spear pops up. Hurry LB at Atlanta (44 gold) and switch to Knight. Hurry Knight at madras (132 gold). Pillage iron road and switch Lahore, Seville and Toledo to horses.

IBT Zulus sign up to the embargo with the Vikings. Viking ships appear off Moscow. Moscow and Madras produce knights ->horses. Elephant pops up in Jaipur.

Turn 252 1310 AD @Kolhapur, Vet knight kiills spear and takes city. It autorazes..
We can have all India's cities outside the capital for peace, so I take it, leaving them with an offshore island capital.
Set Karachi to worker, Chittagong to barracks, Jaipur to harbour. Knight heads out of Moscow towards Karachi. Hurry horse at Lahore (64 gold) and temple at Delhi (156 gold). Sorry, that was :smoke:. Should have thought about it and switched to cheaper, faster library.

IBT Viking ships back off. Delhi temple -> barracks. Lahore horse->horse.

Turn 253 1315 AD Rush horse @ Madras.

IBT There's a Mounted Warrior hanging around near our iron colony :hmm:
Madrid produces knight, five towns produce horses. All start on horses.
Kyoto completes Shakespeare's. Some cascades to Smiths.

Turn 254 1320 AD Iron road restored. Upgrade horse at Madras. Switch New York to market as we need more cash. Buy and sell WM around and raise 54 gold.

IBT That Mounted Warrior was looking after a settler! And they've settled next to our iron colony :eek: I wrestled with this for a while, but decided against declaring over it. We need to concentrate on America and the saltpeter.

Turn 255 1325 AD Rush library in Chittagong to claim that iron.

IBT Vikings and China MA vs us. Viking caravel and frigate arrive near Toledo and Atlanta. Rifles seen moving around Washington. Moscow horse->horse. Atlanta knight->horse. Chittagong library->barracks. French are building Universal Suffrage.

Turn 256 1330 AD Reinforce Toledo and Atlanta, but have we done enough?

IBT Aztecs sign up to the Vikings embargo against us. Two Galloglass hop out and take Atlanta, killing two fortified knights. A swarm of American troops advances across their border near Washington, and a settler/musket pair appears from New Orleans, heading for old Kolhapur.

Turn 257 1335 AD Recapture Atlanta, and in doing so we trigger their MPP with France. We are at war with France, and lose the 23 gpt deal we had with them for furs. There's now no barracks in Atlanta. We have war happiness, but not enough to reduce the lux slider. As we are at war with France, and it looks likely we'll be in deep with America as well, I decide to make peace with the Vikings. I go for 18 gpt + 6 + WM, so if they renege we haven't lost much up front. Investigate Bombay for 65 gold to see what we face. Screenshot below. Check if any alliances are available. Nope! What have we done?

IBTSpain allies with France against us. French frigate bombards one hp off knight at Bangalore. American troops continue through our territory. Where are they going? Ten axemen, a rifle and two settlers in four groups. Delhi expands and we have iron again.
Moscow horse->knight. New York market->knight. Seville horse->knight. Vikings complete Newtons Uni.

Turn 258 1340 AD Knight kills Spanish LB, redlines, captures settler. Upgrade 2 horses. Knight visits New Orleans. Sees a regular rifle on top.

We have to take New Orleans and expand it with a library to reach the saltpeter, and we have to take Bombay to complete a road link to New Orleans. So I set up 8 knights within striking distance of Bombay. We have several knights available in the west to deal with the troops currently passing through our territory. America has no horses, so he will only move one tile at a time.

IBT Iroquois signs an embargo with France against us. French ships bombard our coasts and approach Karachi. Madrid horse->knight. American troops move west. I ask him to leave or declare. Guess what he does :mischief:

My first knight approached Bombay and then I realised that one gang were the wrong side of a river :smoke:. So I attacked first with another group in the east. Two 4/4 knights retreated without inflicting any damage on the regular rifle. So I decided to risk the 5/5* knight across the river. He died, but redlined the rifle, and a regular spear came to the top.. A 5/5 knight killed the spear losing one hp and a second 5/5 knight killed the redlined rifle flawlessly to capture Bombay. A 4/4 knight killed the musket outside New Orleans and captured his settler.

Then it was the turn of the American troops in the open. Our 14/14 army killed the rifle, losing 7 hp. Five knights killed four of the axemen, capturing the two settlers, and I risked our 7/14 army against another. It killed another axeman, and survived with 2 hp left :hmm:. Retreated as many units as possible from the remaining 5 axes. One redlined knight was left exposed..

IBT Spain signed up England and Japan in embargos against us, and India and America signed an embargo against us as well. The exposed knight was killed. Three French cavalry landed on the mountain near Jaipur, and another two landed near Karachi.

Turn 260 1350 AD At New Orleans two knights attacked the regular rifle. One retreated and the second killed him. A third knight died against the musket.

In the open, two knights attacked the remaining axemen. One killed, one retreated. Upgraded one horse.

Handover
I've left the French threat to the next better player. At Jaipur there's a galley, so the knight there could retreat to fight another day. I can't see that he has any chance against the three cavalry on the mountain. He might be lucky and take one down if he attacks, but it's unlikely. He'll certainly lose in defence. The knight at Karachi has a better chance of killing one cavalry if he attacks, and he might get lucky enough to survive the other's attack, though it's very doubtful. I can't see an escape option for him, as he can't outrun the cavalry.

We have to heal our troops and then go in again to take New Orleans. There's currently only one wounded musket. I did keep America, and most of the others, broke with my map trading, so he may not be able to afford upgrades.

As soon as possible we have to get the salt hooked up with a cheap library, and then get our cossacks into play.

Have fun. leif.

DJMGator13
Capt Buttkick - skipped
AlanH - just played
leif erikson UP
Mistfit - on deck

Some extra notes in the cold light of day:

We now have double war happiness, if that's possible, as France, China, Spain and America all declared against us. We also have ivory arriving from near Bombay. So the sliders are at 10.0.0 for 90+ gpt.

None of our eastern cities have barracks, so healing is slow and I've left most units outside towns in case of flips. The slow healing will delay the attack on New Orleans, but it should be possible to take it during the next turn set. Then we have to shut down the resistance as fast as possible so that we can rush a library and grab the saltpeter.

Yes, there is saltpeter under Denver, but it's a looong way away, across the sea, with no harbour, and we have only two little galleys. New Orleans has to be the way to go.

We have 24 knights and 4 horses, so our military is not so dusty. Since we may have 10 turns or more before we get the saltpeter hooked up, we should upgrade the horses now as we get cash. We can then save up for some cossack upgrades (20 gold each?) to trigger our GA. After that we should have lots more gpt to pay for the rest of the upgrades, and new production should step up as well.

Bombay is full of resisters, all American. Starvation is complete in the Indian cities, so they can grow again now.

Our beloved military adviser still says we are average vs America in spite of having killed nine or ten of their units, including two rifles and five axemen :( We have a lot of redlined units, though, and I can't remember if the assessment takes into account actual hit points.

Peace with France would be helpful, but could be very expensive unless we can hit a few cities. If we take all their central island cities (which will include Karachi by then) with our cossacks that may get us a deal, as well as strengthening our Moscow core.

[EDIT] PS: Our post count per turn is half Smackster's, though we are #2 by a short head.

For reference, here's our world:

Wow, I was sweating reading your turn log Alan!! :goodjob:

With some trepidations, I've got it!! :mischief: Thanks for you "cold light" additions, they were quite helpful. We are in an interesting spot. I need to spend some more time with it but I have looked.

The critical task appears to be getting to that saltpeter so we can upgrade to Cossacks. My initial thought is to pull the Knight out of Jaipur as losing him there serves no purpose for us and we can certainly use him against the Americans. It also appears that Karachi is a lost cause, so I'll probably attack the French Cavs sitting to the south.

Nice little stack sitting in Moscow, wish I could teleport half of them to Bombay. :mischief:

Don't know if I'll get to it this evening as I will need to spend some time planning this out a little. Certainly will be interesting! :eek:

Nice little stack sitting in Moscow, wish I could teleport half of them to Bombay. :mischief:
They'll have a very important job to do as soon as we have saltpeter. There are several French and one American city waiting to join the Russian empire near Moscow. :hammer:

You're right, they will have lots to do. Its just if 2 or 3 of them were in Bombay, my life would be much simpler. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Did you see much activity from the Spanish side, near Chittagong? It is undefended and I am wondering how much I need to worry about it?

I see that our horses are no longer a colony near New York, but within our cultural radius. Those axemen may move onto it but will require another turn before they can unhook it. That's good. Sorry, thinking out loud. :mischief:

Yes, teh New york horses were already inside our cultural radius by the time I piclked it up. We have horses under Chittagong as well, and we also have two sources of iron. You should be able to deal with the axemen with the healing knights/upgraded horses, I think, but I agree it's tight. I let them move as far as possible into our territory before I invited them to open hostilities, but time was not on our side. Every turn we gave them was likely to mean more rifles between us and the saptpeter, and rifles are our main hazard at 6 defence while we are stuck with knights. It's a vicious circle.

The only Spaniards I saw were the settler party I eliminated during the turn that they declared. They were already wandering across our territory. I very much doubt if their penninsula city has anything but defenders, and I took a calculated risk that it would take longer for them to get to Chittagong than for me to get a knight back there for active defence.

It's a vicious circle.
Yes, it is one I find myself in all too often and it is hard to get out of. The only way I see is to risk it all to take those 6 American cities north of Delhi, and any more they may build soon. ;)

I think the first priority for Gold will be upgrading horses in the north to Knights. The ones in Moscow can wait for now, unless more French Cavs show up. We will need the gold to rush a Library in New Orleans. Do you remember what it costs to rush a Library as the Russians? Would like to have it ready for when the time comes. :mischief:
I took a calculated risk that it would take longer for them to get to Chittagong than for me to get a knight back there for active defence.
How long do you think I can maintain that level of risk? There are 2 Knights in Madrid. I could send one east and the other to Chittagong and try to cover Madrid with the Knights from Chittagong and the city just east of Madrid. I dislike leaving size 6 productive cities uncovered with Viking Gallosglasses around. Although they seem to mostly be near our home continent.

EDIT - Klarius told me more than a few times to forget keeping cities occupied and get those combat units to the front lines where they can do some good. But that was without the Vikings around. :eek:

Won't get to it tonight as it is now too late and fatigue is a problem. :sleep: I'll probably dive in tomnorrow evening as I'd like to keep it moving. :rockon:

We're at peace with the Vikings at a cost of 18gpt. I think that'll keep them off our backs.

A library costs 40 shields I think, as we are scientific. So if you put one shield in the production bin that leaves 39 to pay for in a rush, which will cost 156 gold. In fact, New Orleans will take a few turns to come out of resistance - maybe five or ten. During that time you'll accumulate 5 to 10 shields, and each shield reduces the cost by 4 gold. Another way to get to the saltpeter will be to build a colony with one of our workers. I suggest we do that to avoid the delay for resistance to end.

We've broken the vicious circle as long as they don't reinforce New Oleans with another rifle. Rifles are the problem at the moment. Once we have New Orleans and the saltpeter America will be history, and with nine tile movement over roads we can cover our western cities easily.

That may be the best 18 GPT we've spent!! :D

The colony idea seems the best way as well, good thinking. Need to move a worker that way soonest, unless we can capture an American Worker in New Orleans. :mischief: Things don't feel as "risky" now. ;) :thanx:

I captured a settler last turn near Bombay. You've got your colonist.

I'm still lurking in between work and paint jobs :)
:goodjob: Alan.

Don't you think we should raze the tundra cities nearest to Moscow instead of capturing them, so as to keep the FP's effectiveness as high as possible?

I'm still lurking in between work and paint jobs :)
:goodjob: Alan.

Don't you think we should raze the tundra cities nearest to Moscow instead of capturing them, so as to keep the FP's effectiveness as high as possible?
You're probably right. I haven't done the sums. Each pure tundra one is unlikely to produce enough to justify its existence, and will increase the rank of those further away from New York than its distance from Moscow. We should probably only keep the ones with reasonable production capacity.

Nice to hear from you Capt. Hope the cabin is coming along nicely. I miss your helpful posts.

Completed the turn set. The good news is that we have Saltpeter and Cossacks. We have peace with France, at a relatively cheap price, and that we are ready to invade America. Please note that I did NOT move any Cossacks near America in my last turn as I felt it would be best for the next player to weave together their own strategy for taking on America and not having to play out one I developed and only had 1 turn to implement. There is also an Army in NY that has not had any units loaded into it.

The bad news is that we have all kinds of trade embargos against us, mostly due to the Vikings, my namesake!!

Now for the turn log:

Turn 260 – 1350 AD
Pre-flight
Checking CrpMapStat, there is a more than a 2% chance that Bombay will flip to the Americans and it requires a garrison of 12 units to prevent a flip. We don’t have 12 spare units. Since America doesn’t possess fast units, I decide to move the Elite Knight out of Bombay and over to New Orleans.
I wake one of our redlined Knights outside of Bombay and move it into Bombay and fortify him there.
The Knight in Jaipur is transported in the galley and lands south of Madras.
Wake the Knight in Karachi and attack the French Cavs, dying a glorious death while redlining the elite French Cav.
We miss rushing a Knight in Chicago by 1 Gold piece. Think I’ll check to see if we can trade anything?
Sell our World Map to Keltoi for their World Map plus 2 Gold.
Sell our World Map to Egypt for 10 Gold plus her World Map.
Keep selling it around and make a total of 43 Gold.
Rush a Knight for 28 Gold in Chicago.
Close my eyes and push enter.

IBT
The French bombard an empty Karachi and take the city plus 1 Gold (with their redlined Cav!!).
The French march into Jaipur and burn it to the ground!
The Americans move a unit onto out horses. They move 2 units next to New York. They found the city of Dallas next to the Saltpeter.
An American Frigate bombards our Knight stack outside of New Orleans and our 2/4 Knight loses a HP. Glad I didn’t put our elite Knight in the stack.
The Musket in New Orleans heals but I saw no other combat unit enter it, only 2 workers.
Chicago Knight => Longbow.
Chicago is now isolated within the American cultural boundaries with no harbor, so I am unable to build any units requiring resources.
I hold my breath and there are no flips.

Turn 261 – 1355 AD
Vet Knight in Chicago moves to attack an American 2/3 Axeman on our horses and defeats him, losing 1 HP.
Move a Knight from Madrid to Chittagong and fortify him there.

Battle for New Orleans.
Elite Knight attacks an American Reg Musket and kills him, losing 3 HP. We capture the city, 4 Gold and 2 workers, one American and one Indian. There are 3 resisters. I set the city to starve the evil inhabitants and produce a Barracks.

Battle of New York.
Wake a Vet (4/4) Knight in New York and attack an American 3/3 Axeman and defeat him without loss.
Wake an Elite Knight and attack an Amer. Reg 3/3 Axeman and defeat him losing 3 HPs.

Move a Vet Knight into New York from Seville.
America is still a democracy and we are average versus them.

IBT
Vikings and America have signed a trade embargo against us; does this mean we get our GPT back?
An American LB moves near New Orleans, threatening our healing Knights.
The news doesn’t get better as a French Frigate and Galleon pair moves up near the coast 3 squares east of Delhi. :eek:
Moscow Knight => Knight.
Karakorum (Mongol) has completed Smith’s Trading Company.

Turn 262 – 1360 AD
Move Knights into New Orleans, against my better judgment.

IBT
French drop off a Knight near Delhi.
French Frigate moves into sight south of Bangalore.
A stack of French troops, a Musketeer, a Spear and a LB, move south near Cincinnati.
American LB moves further south.
American Frigate destroys road south of New Orleans, making it harder to connect the saltpeter. More wasted turns!! :mad:
Delhi Barracks => Knight.
New York Knight => Knight.
The French are building Universal Suffrage.

Turn 263 – 1365 AD
Knight, recently healed, near Bombay attacks an American Reg LB and kills him without loss.
Wake Vet Knight near Delhi and attack a French Vet Knight. He kills him without loss.
Upgrade Horseman to Knight in Madras for 80 Gold.
We now have a strong military compared to America. It would be much stronger if I can get to that Saltpeter.
I have a chance to make peace with America and they will give some cities, but decide to continue with the war.
France, Spain and China still refuse to talk.

IBT
Mongols and China have signed a trade embargo against us.
Aztecs and America sign a trade embargo against us.
The various Frigates are deadly against us. We have 3 improvements destroyed by their fire and 1 unit loses a Hit Point. I can never get a Frigate to hit anything when I use them??
An American Rifle moves on Bombay.
An American Pike moves towards our horses while an Axeman moves towards New York.
The stack of French troops makes a turn towards Moscow. :eek:
The Egyptians request an audience. They want us to give them Physics for World Map. They have only 12 Gold, so I send them packing.
Madras Horse => Knight.
Atlanta Barracks => Knight.
Chicago starves as a Frigate destroyed the irrigation of a desert square.

Turn 264 – 1370 AD
Battle for Bombay.
An American Vet Rifle has moved next to Bombay. We attack with a Vet (4/4) Knight and he dies, redlining the Rifle.
A Vet (4/4) Knight from Delhi attacks and kills him, losing 1 HP.

Upgrade the Horse produced at Madras to Knight for 80 Gold.
Wake the Elite Knight and a Vet Knight in New Orleans and move them south towards Dallas.

I decide to rush a Library in New Orleans for 136 Gold. I did this because it will require 3 more turns for the workers to finish the road south of New Orleans and expanding the boundaries better solidifies our hold on the saltpeter, imho.

IBT
Aztecs and France have signed a trade embargo against us.
American Pike moves onto our horses near New York.
An American LB and Rifle move near New Orleans.
The French land a Cavalry near Delhi. :rolleyes:
The French stack moves towards Moscow and 2 Cavs join them. :shakehead
Toledo Horse => Knight.
New Orleans Library => Barracks.

Turn 265 – 1375 AD
Battle for Dallas.
Vet Knight attacks American Vet Spear and defeats him losing 2 HP. Dallas is razed, along with 2 Frigates and we got no gold.

Battle at Delhi
Wake a Knight in Madras and move to attack a French Vet Cav south of Delhi. We lose without loss to the French Cav?? :cringe:
Take a Knight from near Bombay and attack the same Cav and kill him losing 2 HP. :thanx: Move into Delhi to heal.

Battle for the Horse Square.
Wake a Vet Knight in Seville and attack an American Reg Pike. Our Knight dies redlining the Pike.
Wake a Vet Knight in New York and attack the Pike. He defeats the Pike losing 1 HP.

Battle of Moscow
Move workers back into the city.
Vet Knight attack Vet Musketeer and defeats him losing 1 HP to the accompanying LB. Moves back into Moscow and fortifies to heal.
Vet Knight attacks Reg Spear and defeats him losing 1 HP and promoting to Elite. Moves back into Moscow and fortifies to heal.

I feel I need to deal with the 2 American units near New Orleans.
Second, or third, Battle of New Orleans.
Wake a Vet Knight in New Orleans and attack a Vet Rifle and he dies, taking 1 HP from the Rifle.
An Elite Knight attacks the Vet (3/4) Rifle and kills him flawlessly.
Wake a Vet (3/4) Knight and move him into New Orleans and fortifies.
Wake a Vet Knight in Bombay and move him to attack a Reg Amer. LB. He kills him losing 1 HP.
Move a (3/4) Knight into Bombay and fortify.

Visit France and she wants the 4 workers that are in Moscow, all our Gold (196) and 4 GPT for peace. Through negotiation, she’ll take only 1 GPT, or only 2 workers and 3 GPT. I’m trying to figure out how to give her the foreign workers we have in Moscow and keep our native ones? In the city listing, the Egyptian and American workers are listed first, so I’ll try keeping the third and fourth worker and giving her the first and second. Here we go. After some more negotiation (I assume foreign workers are cheaper than natives) I trade Peace with France for 180 Gold, 5 GPT and 2 Workers. She accepts.
I check Moscow and was wrong; both our Native workers are gone? :wallbash:
Spain won’t talk.
American will give us an insignificant city or one tech for peace. Not worth it as we will soon have all their cities. :mischief:
China will give us a worker and 10 Gold for peace. Nope!
I decide to wait a little longer.

IBT
The trade embargo against us between India and the Iroquois has ended.
Japan and China have signed a trade embargo against us.
French forces move off.
American forces are headed for the horse square again, a LB and an Axeman.
Moscow Knight => Knight.
Seville Knight => Knight.

Turn 266 – 1380 AD
New York grows to size 11.
Move some Knights into New York in anticipation of gaining saltpeter.
Wake Elite Knight in New York and attack an American Vet Axeman. Kill him losing 1 HP and Trotsky is born. Return everyone to NY and think about what we need 200 shields for? Perhaps an army of Cossacks would be nice?
Trades
The Keltoi will give us World Map, 18 Gold plus 7 GPT for furs. I take it.
The Egyptians give us 44 Gold (all she had) plus WM for Physics. I take it.

IBT
The Zulus come offering peace. I accept their offer, as it is straight up. (they have nothing to pay us for it)
American LB moves towards New York.
Spanish Spear moves towards Chittagong.
Madrid Knight => Knight.
New York Knight => Knight.
Lahore Horse => Knight.

Turn 267 – 1385 AD
Upgrade Horse to Knight in Lahore for 80 Gold.
Vet Knight leaves NY and attacks an American Reg. LB and defeats him flawlessly.
Upgrade Horse in Moscow to Knight for 80 Gold.
Upgrade Horse in Toledo to Knight for 80 Gold.
Shift some Knights around to cover an American threat of a Rifle and LB north of Bombay, although they are covering a settler. I wonder where they think they are going?
Still not much to trade.

IBT
American Reg. LB attacks our Vet Knight near Bombay and our Knight retreats redlined, with no loss to the LB.
The American settler and Rifle move towards New Orleans.
New Orleans expands and we have saltpeter. :clap:

Turn 268 – 1390 AD
Go to New York and begin upgrading as many Knights as we can. We upgrade all 7 Knights there.
Upgrade Knight in Madras to Cossack for 20 Gold.
Awaken Knight in Delhi and attack Amer. Reg LB and defeat him losing 1 HP.
Decide to make Trotsky into an army.
We can get Banking from the Keltoi for Ivory, WM, 6 Gold and 9 GPT. Decide to wait until we have more units upgraded.

IBT
Spanish troops are making an offensive move near Chittagong. The Spear is headed for the Iron Hill and a LB moves toward Chittagong.
The American Settler and Rifle head back inland.
An American Spear heads for the horses again.
The trade embargo against us between the Vikings and the Iroquois has ended.

Turn 269 – 1395 AD
Upgrade 2 Knights to Cossack in Delhi.
Move Cossack to Bombay and the Knight in Bombay to Delhi for upgrade.
Upgrade Knight in Toledo to Cossack and two in Moscow.
Move Knight from Madrid onto the Iron Hill near Chittagong.
Make peace with China a they give 17 Gold plus their WM.
The only civ that won’t talk is Spain?

IBT
Egypt and America have signed a trade embargo against us.
An American Spear moves onto our horse square.
A Spanish LB moves into our territory and the Spear disappears into the fog headed towards an undefended Madrid.
Moscow Knight => Cossack (5 turns).
Chittagong Barracks => Cossack.

Turn 270 – 1400 AD
Wake Knight in Chittagong and attack a Spanish LB and kill him flawlessly, move back to Chittagong.
Upgrade a Knight in NY to Cossack.
Wake Knight on iron hill near Chittagong and move to Madrid, upgrade to Cossack.
Upgrade 4 Knights in Moscow to Cossacks.
I decide to leave all the Cossacks that are active on the northern continent unmoved for the next driver to use to set up how he wishes to attacks America.

After Action Report.
Military. We have saltpeter and 21 Cossacks ready to roll, although some were upgraded this turn. There are still 11 Knights and 2 Horses (in Moscow) waiting for upgrade. There is also an empty Army waiting in New York to be loaded with Cossacks if you wish. There is an American Spear sitting on our Horse Square, please don’t forget.

Diplomatic. We are at war with America and Spain. Spain is willing to talk, finally, and will give us Banking, 38 Gold, Wm and Murcia for peace. I did not make the deal, as it is not my place to do so. There are too many trade embargos against us for me to remember. Let’s see:
Spain and Vikings
Egypt and America
Vikings and America
Aztecs and Vikings
England and Vikings
Zululand and Vikings

Technology. There are a few civs that do not have Theory of Gravity. We could obtain it at a very high cost in GPT but I decided it wasn’t worth it yet. The best chance for trading techs is with the Keltoi as they want some of our ivory and it brings the GPT price down significantly.

Economy. We are making around 120 GPT and I left you nothing in the treasury as I have been upgrading Knights as fast as I could.

There has not been a lot of action. We are rated as strong compared to the Americans. The time has come to strike them with our Cossacks. Besides the American Spear, there is a Spanish Spear on the plans square 2 NW of our Iron Hill near Chittagong. If you make peace, he will not be a problem.

Firaxis Score = 349 Jason Score = 229

<< THE SAVE >> (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Xteam_SG005_AD1400_01.SAV)

Good Luck! Misfit? You should have a great time at war destroying the Americans!!

Well played Leif. I don't think the embargos are any problem, and I don't see any need for any tech trading now. We have the best offensive unit we are going to have for a long time. What else do we need? Banks? Nah! We've got a Golden Age waiting around the corner. We'll be building/shortrushing/rushing Cossacks wall to wall.

DJMGator13 - on deck
Capt Buttkick - skipped
AlanH
leif erikson - just played
Mistfit UP

Go, Mistfit!

Go, Mistfit!
Isn't Misfit out of pocket for a few more days? I think he will be back on the 15th? If the Capt or Gator are available, should we offer it up to keep it moving?

I think we should be thinking about getting into the modern age and acquiring steam power. We will need the production benefit of rails, imho. Pumping out Cossacks will be of prime importance when there is the possibility of facing Infantry. France is building Universal Suffrage now, so they can't be far away! :eek:

There are many more tough battle ahead, but we can do it!! :D

Sorry, I didn't know, or had forgotten, that Mistfit was off line at all :hmm: Captain is busy painting anything that stands still, so it looks like there's just the three of us. How are you fixed, Gator?

[EDIT] Well according to his sig, which I've just tracked down, Mistfit is back on or after 14th, so he *could* pick it up and play within 72 hours.

Perhaps I'm wrong (nothing unusual there ;) ) but I read that as Misfit would be back on the 15th. That gives Gator 36 hours, and 2 evenings, if he has the time. I'm concerned that we're behind in time and we have a long way to go, that's all. Just a suggestion. :mischief:

Mistfit is suppose to be back tomorrow. I can't play till Saturday so if he (or Capt) haven't grab it by then I will.

Sorry, guys.
I'm getting pretty fed up with plastering and painting, but there's still a long way to go and although I'd rather play Civ...

I guess this is how grownups feel :p

I couldn't play before tomorrow evening if I wanted to...And trust me I'd love to get me hands on this one right now! You guys have done a spectacular job turning this one around.

Welcome back, Mistfit. Unless someone wants to grab it before then, I guess we'll wait for you.

Mistfit is suppose to be back tomorrow. I can't play till Saturday so if he (or Capt) haven't grab it by then I will.
If Gator can pick it up before Sunday evening he's welcome to it.

I can play it today. So I got it.

DJMGator13 UP - and got it
Capt Buttkick - skipped
AlanH - will take it after Mistfit
leif erikson - just played
Mistfit - on deck, swapped with Gator

Go for it Gator. Let's get this puppy moving! Our Cossacks are straining at the leash. No - champing at the bit!

Welcome back Misfit. Hope you had a successful trip. :D

Good luck Gator, spur those steeds onward!! :mischief:

Louisville was around 70 deg the 3 days I was there. Today at home the high temp I believe is supossed to be 15 or so and 20 deg is the high for the next week. It got down to -8 last night. Had it not been for all of the rain in Louisville I might have been able to golf while I was there. That would have been cool.

@ leif - Are you a Pat fan? Should be a good game today :) and btw if it is all the same to you could you add the "t" into my name? It's no big deal if you don't but it would be my preference ~TY. FYI my RL last name is Mist. I know how misfit is supposed to be spelled but when making a knick for myself I thought I'd try to be clever (that rarely works)

:lol:
Well, you were alot more clever than any of us :cool:

@ leif - Are you a Pat fan? Should be a good game today :) and btw if it is all the same to you could you add the "t" into my name? It's no big deal if you don't but it would be my preference ~TY. FYI my RL last name is Mist. I know how misfit is supposed to be spelled but when making a knick for myself I thought I'd try to be clever (that rarely works)
My sincere apologies Mistfit. While you were being clever, I was sleeping at the keyboard! :blush: :lol: :lol:

Now that my powers of observation have been proven faulty, you can better understand why I can't seem to keep up with Civ. ;) I never really even noticed, how sad is that!! :eek:

I follow the Pats but I wouldn't say I am a huge fan. My father was always a NY Giant fan as there weren't any Patriots when he was young. In fact, I can remember when they started the Pats. :rolleyes: Oh my, did I really say that? In my youth, they were a laughing stock and were called the 'aintriots, for obvious reasons. As I have grown older, I have come to view professional sports with some disdain as the players care only about the size of their paycheck as pride and teamwork have fallen by the wayside. :sad: But, it could be an interesting game... ;)

Preturn - 1400AD
kill the AMR spear on our horses and kick off our GA

Capture Washington - loss (2 cossacks)

IBT - VIK & ENG TE against us ends / VIK & SPN TE against us ends / CHN & AMR sign TE against us / AMR asks for peace - no way

Turn 1 - 1405AD
move troops towards Calcutta / heal others

IBT - ZUL & VIK TE against usa ends / JPN is at war with EGY

Turn 2 - 1410AD
Moscow riots, NY riots (turn on Mapstat)
Capture Calcutta (almost lose our knight army in the process) with barracks intact and +9spt start a cossack

Turn 3 - 1415AD
lose 3 cossacks attacking Philly call off attack - we need some cannons to weaken the rifles - our 6 vrs their 6+bonuses is not good
rush some cannons

IBT - IRQ & AMR sign a TE against us

Turn 4 - 1420AD
fill the army with 3 cossacks

IBT - JPN extorts 25gold and Tmap - I give cave - not worth a war for only 25 gold /

Turn 5 - 1425AD
we're up to 8 cannons - now to get them in position to do some good
land 2 cossacks from Moscow in Lahore

IBT - IRQ are building Un.Suff

Turn 6 - 1430AD
move cannons - heal some troops

IBT - IRQ & SPN sign TE against us / VIK & AZT TE aginst us ends

Turn 7 - 1435AD
have 6 cannons ready to hit Philly next turn and 3 more can move into position

IBT - SPN asks for peace / renew peace with VIK

Turn 8 - 1440AD
2 of 6 cannon shots hit, still lose 1 cossack to a 2hp rifle - capture Philly

IBT - buy Wmap from IND / IRQ & FRA TE against us ends /

Turn 9 - 1445AD
move troops towards Boston (with 3 cannons, 6 more 1 turn behind)

IBT - IND & AMR TE against us ends / ZUL ask us to TE against EGY - I decline and trade Wmaps / ENG & SPN TE against us ends / JPN & SPN TE against us ends / FRA are building ToE

more IBT - VIK found Snagarst in former IND lands and have another settler moving / JPN has 2 settlers there also

Turn 10 - 1450AD
finally generate an elite cossack :dance:
atleast 2 rifles in Boston - you now have a stack of 9 cannons together - have fun

Notes to next player
1) Buy a 19" flat panel LCD monitor (they're real nice - I just got one today)
2) May need to declare on VIK and/or JPN if they cut off our saltpeter roadway
3) Keep hitting AMR - 8 cities left - 7 of which are size 1 - and only 2 of these have culturally expanded
4) I've started to divert forces towards SPN
5) FRA has railroaded a lot of the land

Nice work Gator :goodjob: Sounds like some tough going, but at least it looked nice on that new screen.

Good luck Mistfit, show America what your made of! :mischief: :D

DJMGator13 - just played
Capt Buttkick - on deck but still skipped?
AlanH - on deck if Capt not available
leif erikson
Mistfit UP - swapped with Gator

Good work Gator. What's the resolution on that 19"? Go Mistfit :p :D

1) Buy a 19" flat panel LCD monitor (they're real nice - I just got one today)
Love to but I doubt I'd get that one past the wife :(
2) May need to declare on VIK and/or JPN if they cut off our saltpeter roadway
Ooh Lets hope we don't need to do that with the Vikes yet. They were troublesome my last turn set.
3) Keep hitting AMR - 8 cities left - 7 of which are size 1 - and only 2 of these have culturally expanded
Raze then? If we have the chance to take cities in peace talks is it worth doing? or should we just roll over them? How worried are we about our rep? Can we take the cities and then wipe them out breaking peace?
4) I've started to divert forces towards SPN
OK I'll continue the same
5) FRA has railroaded a lot of the land
They are going to be a tough nut to crack.

I've got it although it may take tonight and tomorrow night to finish. I have a guest in my computer room/guest room so late night playing is not happening this week.

What's the resolution on that 19"?

Its standard mode is 1024x768 with a very clean picture. It will go up to 1280x1024. I'm still running my old 17" CRT monitor next to it and the difference is amazing.

@Mistfit - tell your wife it's onsale ($380 after the rebate), besides you can write it off for business use.

Hmm! I run a 17" TFT with standard (and max) resolution 1280 x 1024. If I run it at 1024 x 768 it looks very chunky. I decided that my next monitor has to be a 20", as I haven't found a 19" that'll do better than my 17". I need more pixels !!!

The viewable screen on the 19" is almost as large as the whole front of the 17" monitor. (The active screen on the 17" would be equal to a 15" flat LCD).

@Mistfit (again) - don't worry about having to declare on the VIK if we lose that saltpeter source. There is another one in AMR just above one of their cities, so we can claim that one without having to war. You may want to move our workers up to that corner and build an alternate roadway depending on where those 3 settlers build.

Good News and Bad:

The Bad news:
~I only got 8 turns completed
~I tried last night before I got booted out of the computer/guest room (Mother-in-law) to email my turn report and save up to my office to turn it back into you guys so you could continue but it never made it or my spam blocker ate it 'cause it 'aint here this morning.
~The Cannons so far have been useless because they cannot keep up with the cossacks

The Good News:

~America is gone off of the northern island - I kept most all of their cities. They have 2 cities on our home island one in the very SW portion of the Northern chain of islands and a little city on a 2 or 3 tile island to the NW of the northern island. (they will give up 2 cities and 3 techs for peace but not all of them so I will destroy one of the last 3 as see what he thinks then)

~Spain is gone off the northern portion of the northern island. They are down to one city and I have troops on their doorstep

~Egypt is gone off of the northern portion of the northern island and is down to 3 or 4 size one cities which she will give up with tech in peace

~I only lost about 2 maybe 3 cossacks in the whole turnset. I was fighting rifles and muskets against the Americans and pikes and spears against the Spanish and Egyptians.

I have to give Kudos to the you guys for setting me up for some very fun :hammer: 'ing turns I believe I took 16 towns in 8 turns and I'm set-up to take 2 more at the begining of the 9th turn with the possibility of 2 or 3 more if we take peace from the Americans and Egypt


Map:
Red and green dots are cities that I have taken and kept
Black spots are cities that have auto razed or I razed them
Blue spots are cities that I have troops on the doorstep
Black stars are Capitals for Spain / America / Egypt
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM_Map.JPG

Things to discuss:
Who's next?
Logically and Geographically the Vikings should be next on the hit list as they are the closest to where our troops are. I have not checked if they will accept a RoP so we can abuse them yet but I will see when I finish up this evening.

Note: The neat thing about not having our initial island covered with our cities is the fact that when we beat a civ up enough and clean them out of their homelands they end up jumping to their final resting spot close to our core. America is ripe for the picking on our island once I finish thier last city off of the western chain.

Nice progress Mistfit!! :goodjob: Keep that up and we'll be done in no time. :D

Too bad France is beyond spears and pikes! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Who next is a good question. Who is most technologically backward on the other continent? The problem may be how we keep France, Iroquois and the Vikings from filling in the territory we free up as we destroy the various civs? The Vikings seem very efficient at it, viewing the northern continent. :eek:

EDIT - We should try to keep in mind those small islands out there as we make peace deals with vanquished foes. Better to get them that way than to have to fight for them. ;)

If we can pull off a RoP rape against the Vikings and sweep the continent from West to east hopefully the AI won't have time to fill in to much behind us.
I like the idea of getting to the Vikings first as it will not allow anyone to attack us from behind.

Hmm! Do you think the French have Infantry yet? It might be better to go for France earlier rather than let them get too many heavy defenders. Otehrwise we're stuck with waiting for tanks. Ad our research capability is not exactly great last time I saw it.

The french seem like a difficult target. The primary reason is that the majority of our troops are on the other side of the world. If you look at the map a couple of posts up our troops are near where the blue dots are. Should I start to re-direct them back to the other way or do you want to try to fight on 2 fronts? ie. use the troops over in the west to hit the Vikings and use any new troops out of our northern core to build an army to hit the french

I'm just raising questions, not offering answers.

Are the French just going to get more difficult? When is the best time to hit them? Are we already too late until we get tanks? Cossacks are fast, and could reach the east very quickly. Our positioning problem is more likely to be about transport ships, not cossacks. Do we have any? Where are they? If we have to wait for tanks, what do we need to do to raise our research rate? Or can we do it all with pointy sticks?

I'd have to agree with Alan. We should if possible hit the French. We should ally with everyone or at least the closest & stronest to France. They are too strong and if we hit others first they will be able to build and defend new cities in conquered lands.

Pre turn: America would give us 3 cities for peace... Nah not yet this is conquest! and we are at war with the spanish as well - they would give us one city BTW.
Attack opn Boston. I figure that since all of these cannons have no movement points and boston is at size 5 the city must already have been bombed. so I attack. I loose no Cossacks and upgrade 2 to elites. Although the Cossack Army is redlined with only 2 hp's. 1 resistor. Set city to starve. Set city to cannon as it seems to be what is being built in other captured towns. Now we do not need to worry about an salt as I have gained another source :D Oh yeah we get 2 workers as well.

IBT: Settlers do not move. Spain shows a longbow out of their capital. America building a Wonder (i forgot which I was laughing so hard)

Turn 1 1455AD:
Battle of Frisco:
Loose 1 Cossack -vs- 1 rMusket 2 cRifle Take city.

Battle of Seattle
Lose 1 hp -vs- rRifle and rMusket take city. 1 resistor.

Battle of Miami
Loose no one auto raze city. America is gone from the northern continent.

Our flip chances are very small now so I will heal units and head them towards the spanish front.

IBT:
Viking/American embargo against us end.

Turn 2 1460AD
Battle of Santiago
Loose 1 hp -vs- rSpear and take the city.

Switch a couple of builds to Caravels for our inpending sea travels.

IBT:
Spain and the vikings sign a trade embargo against us :hmm:

Turn 3 1465AD

Battle of Alexandria
loose 2 hp -vs- 2 rSpear got 2 promo's too :D 4 resistors

They are left with one small semi Island town that we can grab on our way through the Egyptians

Set -up for EGY war :evil:

IBT:
Embargo between us the mongols and China has ended

Turn 4 1470AD
Declare war on the Egyptians

Battle of Baltimore
Loose 1 Cossack to a rPike and take the city 1 resistor

Battle of Thebes
Loose 1 cossack -vs- 2 rPike and 1 rSpear. take city and start a lib.

Capture 2 EGY workers

IBT:

Turn 5 1475AD

Attack on Memphis
Loose no one 2 redline and retreated against 3 rPike 1 vSpear and 1 LB take the City with 2 workers.

Attack on Houston
Loose no one -vs- 2 rPike take city

IBT:

Turn 6 1480

Battle of Elephantine
Loose no one -vs- 2rPike, 1rSpear and 1 LB and take city

Hurry a Rax in Thebes for healing

Battle of Pi-Ramses
No losses and burn it to the ground!

IBT
Keltoi come offering 7gpt and 47 gold and WM for our furs I accept

Turn 7 1485

Battle of Helopsis
no losses vs 2 r Pike

Battle of Giza (new Capital)
no losses 1 promo (actually no damage to our unit at all :D) Take the city

Battle of Byblos (New Capital)
no losses vs 1 eSpear and 2 rPike Raze the City

Turn 8 1490AD
Battle of El-Amarna (New Capital)
2 damaged units but no losses take and keep the city (we can raze later if needed)

Move unit for next attack

IBT

Turn 9 1495AD
Start moving troops back East for upcomming French incursion

Battle of Murcia (if you want to call it that)
1 cossack looses 2 hp and the city is destroyed

They outstanding trade imbargos that the spanish had are over. Our first Civ is Dead! The Spanish are gone!

Battle of Abydos
1 elite Cossack no damage takes the city and razes it.

Battle of Pi-Rames #2
1 elite Cossack -1hp takes the city and razes it

Battle of Heirencopolis
1 elite Cossack no damage takes the city and razes it

Oops that was her 2nd to last city. dang it's on the other side the last one is on the other side of the keltic city of Burdigala. Hmm... That will take some thinking.

Turn 10 1500AD
I'm going to leave everyone un moved so we can discuss which direction we should head in.

Pass off Report
America: Will Give Dallas / Detroit / ToG / and Magnets for peace leaving them with only the Capital and Cincinnati for towns (both of which are on our home island)

Egypt: will give us Banking for peace

Leaving them with their Capital on the SW chain past the Keltoi city

This alone would put us into the next era and being Scientific we should get a free tech. Hopefully we could trade it around.

If it is indeed the French that we go after next I would get a RoP with the irriquois and start our offensive in their territory. specifically Kawauka. This town is nestled nicely inside the French mainland and can be reached through the Sea. We could set up there and on our first turn attack 3 of the French's cities (Makkah - Brest hehehe - and Jeddah) from there it would be on to Lyons and to Paris crippling the French (hopefully)

We that is my initial plan anyway.

Army:
2 Warriors
1 Spear
5 Knights
19 Cannons
2 Galleys (One can be moved into port for upgrade this turn)
4 Caravels
52 Cossacks
And 2 Armies
Not a bad little pile there

The Save ( loaded to forum as well)
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Xteam_SG005_AD1500_01.SAV

Good job Mistfit, you have put us on the map in a big way!! :goodjob: ;)

The next target is a tough choice as it is difficult to assess where France is. I know they were building Universal Suffrage during my turn set, which is 20 plus turns ago. That means they had Industrialization. The problem with Vanilla is that when we change age we're going to get Nationalism and that won't really let us recon where France is. All they need is Electricity to get to Replacable Parts and Infantry. It may be too late. :cry:

Can we use an embassy to recon a city or something to find out where they are? If we investigate a city, we should see if there are any Infantry as defenders. That is only a snapshot, but it is something. :)

The other way to do it is to go after France's infrastructure. Using our Cossacks to destroy their rails and put their cities in a hurt. Target all their resources and lux's as well as all high food production squares. I think we would have to use ROP rape to make that an effective strategy. It would crimp their production and cripple their transportation. :mischief: If they have a lot of defensive units, it will give us the edge in movement, except for the artillery. But it will also require more time. :(

Guess we had better start producing some transport ships soonest. :eek:

Nice progress Mistfit. I agree, an investigation of Paris will tell us whether Joan has infantry yet. In my GOTM 37 I was surprised that Carthage reached destroyers, maybe even battleships, without ever building an Infantryman, so my cavalry fiished the job against rifles only.

DJMGator13
Capt Buttkick - still skipped? If not then On Deck
AlanH UP
leif erikson - on deck if Capt not available
Mistfit - just played

I'm away from tomorrow until Wednesday, so I'll play the next set anyway. Capt and leif can then sort out who plays next. Consider this my GOT IT, and I'll have a look at it, investigate Paris, and try to post some thoughts before I start.

I'd like to be skipped again, please.
Please check what French city is wonder-building before making the investigation. The wonder-building city will not have produced inf. yet anyway and the AI isn't moving forces around much in peace time.

We needed an embassy first anyway before could investigate any other cities. As luck would have it Paris isn't building a wonder, so that was the total cost to discover that ... I don't think we'd make much progress if we took them on right now. Seven Infantry in residence :eek:. They are building a hospital and they have the Pyramids. Many of their cities are at pop 12, so they are about to explode in population. I believe we are going to need tanks, gentlemen :rolleyes:

Click for full size version:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Xteam_Paris_1500AD1.jpg (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Xteam_Paris_1500AD.jpg)

I was afraid of that. :( If we have the cash, perhaps the next step is to have a look at the Vikings and see if we can figure out where they are. Mistfit's strategy of sweeping the Vikings and on around may be the best way now. We'll probably have to ally with France to keep them off our backs. The problem then will be France backfilling the area we devastate and, as allies, we can't clean them up until later, much more work. :rolleyes:

Looks like we'll need to do a lot of pointy stick research. And a fleet of transports is still necessary to go south. Is there a need to keep America, Egypt and India around? If not, I think we should eliminate them before we head south. ;)

We do have a bunch of cash that we can get embassies made with everyone. This is a good idea so we don't start unintended wars through MA's and MPP's.

Guess we had better start producing some transport ships soonest

I produced a few and have a couple more in queue

Edit
Oh yeah I did check and we could research Mettalurgy in 4 turns at 80% with a possitive cash flow if needed

I hope we already have Metallurgy :eek:

[EDIT] Yes, surprisingly, we can research both Magnetism and ToG at 4 turn rate, but the Industrial techs are a tad more expensive.

Buying is far cheaper. Just did a quick spot check, and Keltoi, for example, would give us any tech for 350 plus ivory. I'll do some careful investigations on our trading/peace deal/extortion options and report back.

As I mentioned in my turn report we can get all of the visable techs from the Egyptians and Americans for Peace. I suggest we do that as it will bring us into the new age and give us an idea of how far ahead everyone is.

Metallurgy/Magnetism... You knew what I was trying to say...even if I didn't

Sorry, Mistfit, it was a bad joke. And I did see your techs for peace option. I was just indicating that, even when we get to the next era, we'll maybe be able to buy our way up the tech tree for a while rather than researching. France is already building the Theory of Evolution, so we may be too late to snag the ToE slingshot.

Does anyone understand how our shield production levels are so high? I just ran down F1 and looked fo rcaptured cities to starve. Calcutta, for example, can be set to five starving taxmen, only the city centre showing a single shield, and still produces 6 spt :confused:

Buying is far cheaper. Just did a quick spot check, and Keltoi, for example, would give us any tech for 350 plus ivory. I'll do some careful investigations on our trading/peace deal/extortion options and report back.
I agree with this, between buying and pointy stick, I think it is our best option to catch up. We are going to need an incredible number of Cossacks to pull this off and should probably take a hard look at resource cutting to get the numbers up, as long as the Gold supply holds up. Without Leo's this will get expensive and, iirc, the Arabs built Leo's, so that means the French have it now.

The other area is what Mistfit touched on. We are going to have to be shrewd about how we work the diplomacy front. We'll need to keep some good trading partners and maintain some powerful friends as we march across the continent and take the civs in turn. Having France, with its tech and production capacity, turn against us will be painful, imho. The advantage that we have here is that they will have to conduct an amphibious assault of our cores and the AI is very weak at doing that.

Is it possible to determine where the AI builds their FP's without having to investigate every city? It would be nice to target them as, iirc, they can not rebuild the FP once we destroy it. That would hurt France's production some. Also, in the screenie, notice the number of lux's France has and that, with 12 pop, she only is producing 15 shields. It would be nice to take a bite out of those by eliminating trading partners and forcing some specialists. It would be even better to force her to Communism, but I think we would have to attack her to make that happen.

I'm starting to think too much cloak and dagger? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Does anyone understand how our shield production levels are so high? I just ran down F1 and looked fo rcaptured cities to starve. Calcutta, for example, can be set to five starving taxmen, only the city centre showing a single shield, and still produces 6 spt :confused:
Are we still in our Golden Age?

Is Mobilization enabled in this game? Perhaps that is a way to boost production? Although I have never used it as I underestand there are some penalties to doing so, it does give production as a Golden Age, No? :mischief:

Golden Age is over, but you see the extra shields in the city view, and anyway, there's no way that would change 1spt into 6.

Dunno whether mobilisation is available in the game, but we don't have Nationalism yet, so it's certainly not an option for us.

I don't have the game on my work computer but are you sure the GA is over? I don't recall getting that message.

I've checked the maintenance thread, and mobilisation is available with Nationalism. Neither GA nor mobilisation nor a combination of the two could explain the production increase I'm seeing. Moscow has 15spt visible on the map, but 25spt on the PRODUCTION spt line.

I've PM'd MB to ask if he knows anything, with a link to this screenshot (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/XTeam_Calcutta_1500AD.jpg) of Calcutta. Calcutta has 7spt if I set no citizens working.

[EDIT] @Mistfit: Hmm! Well, the GA normally shows up in the bottom right mini-screen, and it's not there. Also, you get a minimum of 2 shields on each shield-producing tile in the city screens, but I'm seeing 1spt on most. I just recounted Moscow's shields, and it actually has 16spt showing on the map and 25 in the production per turn. The difference *would* be explained by a GA in this case - maybe as you haven't had a notification, the GA finishes this turn, and it's a bug that it doesn't show *during* this turn? Calcutta is a complete mystery, however.

If it is the GA, then our potential research rate will drop significantly as soon as it really ends.

I'm wondering whether the best deal we can do might be to make peace with Egypt for Banking, then buy Magnetism and Gravity, and then make peace with Lincoln for Industrial tech/s instead. The downside of that idea is we don't know whether he as any IA techs, of course.

[EDIT] @Mistfit: Hmm! Well, the GA normally shows up in the bottom right mini-screen, and it's not there. Also, you get a minimum of 2 shields on each shield-producing tile in the city screens, but I'm seeing 1spt on most. I just recounted Moscow's shields, and it actually has 16spt showing on the map and 25 in the production per turn. The difference *would* be explained by a GA in this case - maybe as you haven't had a notification, the GA finishes this turn, and it's a bug that it doesn't show *during* this turn? Calcutta is a complete mystery, however.

I've seen that before, so that's probably it. The GA will end on the intraturn.

I'm wondering whether the best deal we can do might be to make peace with Egypt for Banking, then buy Magnetism and Gravity, and then make peace with Lincoln for Industrial tech/s instead. The downside of that idea is we don't know whether he as any IA techs, of course.
We've got 2700 Gold. I think we should try it. We can make up the Gold, especially if we mobilize so our production is increased and we, perhaps, can continue without resource cutting. Once in the IA, we will get Nationalism as our free tech and be free to use Mobilization. :mischief:

Reading from the Civilopedia entry on Mobilization, we can build any military unit or military improvement and get a one shield bonus for each square producing at least 1 shield. We can not return to a normal economy until we either destroy a civ or make peace with them. I believe this only applies to shields and not gold production. I think it is just what the doctor ordered so we can pump out some Cossacks. The down side is culture and trying to get city improvements such as marketplaces built. if we are hell bent on destruction, then we won't need that culture stuff! We've had enough bad experiences with culture anyway!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Preturn - 1400AD
kill the AMR spear on our horses and kick off our GA

I kicked off the GA on the preturn, so it should have either just ended or will end next turn.

Double post alert.

:goodjob: Congrats Mistfit on your Gotm38 finish. Midway thru the game I decide to try for space since I was running out of time. I think my best diplo date would have been a few turns after your date had I gone that route.

:king: Way to go Alan - a Top Ten

I haven't even started the current COTM game yet. I may try to start it tonight.

Hi Guys. I apologise. Releasing the GOTM 38 results took me much longer than I expected, and I've run out of time before I travel to Brussels tomorrow. I'm going to have to skip.

I did the following deals before I realised I wasn't going to make it, but didn't hit next turn yet:

- Bought an embassy in Paris for 94 gold. You've seen the screen shot.
- Made peace with Egypt for Banking and maps. Egypt's embargo w. America ends.
- Bought Magnetism and ToG from France for 24gpt + ivory + maps.
- We get Nationalism.
- Gave Lincoln peace for Medicine, Dallas, Denver, maps. His embargo with China ends.
- Bought Steam from Keltoi for Medecine + 276 + maps.
- We have no coal, but can bring a roaded source into range near Boston with a rushed library.
- Production had been recalculated in the cities, and we were back to normal spt levels.

There's more to do before continuing. There are two-fers still available, plus optional techs if we want them (not sure we do). We can buy Electricity, then either research or maybe buy Sci Method, and we might have a shot at the ToE slingshot. We can't use New York's current shelds as a ToE prebuild, presumably because there are some chopped shields in the box. Wonders are greyed out there. Moscow might do it though. Haven't checked.

It's not worth uploading what I've done. The above took quite a while to figure out, but it can be replayed in no time now. I chose to deal with France on the MA techs to get some gpt lock-in and because she valued our ivory far higher than any one else, not surprisingly, leaving us with more cash to spend.

Over to leif, I think.

Hi Guys. I apologise. Releasing the GOTM 38 results took me much longer than I expected, and I've run out of time before I travel to Brussels tomorrow. I'm going to have to skip.
No problem, I hope you have a safe and productive trip. :D
Over to leif, I think.
OK, I've got it. Thanks for the details of your hard work Alan. Now I won't have to think as hard. I'll try to get as much tech as I can, focusing on getting to tanks as fast as possible.

I would like to know what we think about using Mobilization though? I've never done it. Should we try for the ToE slingshot? If we have enough Gold, we could investigate a city or two where it is being built and assess our chances? I'll have a look in the morning and try to get back on by noon with thoughts. :mischief: :confused: ;)

We won't be able to start ToE if we are in mobilization, as far as I know, but we'd be OK if we've already started it (probably at least one inter-turn of production on it before we mobilse).

Mobilization will give the same level of production we had during the GA, I think. We might want to get a few markets going before it as well, as places like Atlanta are suffering unhappiness at pop 8. There are luxes to be had as well, if you want to go fo rthem, but may be a bit risky to trade on luxes in view of the trade embargoes that are flying around.

We won't be able to start ToE if we are in mobilization, as far as I know, but we'd be OK if we've already started it.
I think that's true. Here's the excerpt from the mobilization entry in the war academy:

The wonders (great and small) which may be started during a war-time mobilization are: The Great Wall, Sun Tzu’s Art of War, Leonardo’s Workshop, Universal Suffrage, The United Nations, The Manhattan Project, The Pentagon, Strategic Missile Defense, Intelligence Agency, and Battlefield Medicine.

Sounds great. What are the downsides?
During a war-time economy, your cities may only undertake building projects of military units or “militaristic” city improvements, with some limited exceptions (see below). Cities building non-militaristic units before the war-time mobilization may continue their non-military projects (without the shield bonus provided by mobilization), provided that, once such project is completed or is changed, the city will come under the same build restrictions as a city starting a project after the mobilization. Therefore, no new construction of temples, marketplaces, aqueducts, or a whole host of other city improvements is permitted after a mobilization.

Link to War Academy Article (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_mobilization.shtml)
It sounds like we need to make sure that all our non-military builds are in place before we start this, but that it is exactly what we need to speed our builds of Cossacks? Transports are exc;luded from teh shield bonus but it looks like they can still be built.

The second category, those building projects which generate the shield bonus, is more restrictive and is limited to those units with an A/D value or a bombard value, but specifically excluding: (a) naval and air transports (galley, caravel, galleon, transport, helicopter), and (b) armies.
Once Mobilization is started, it will affect everyone's turns. Is this something we want to try? :)

Bad News, there isn't going to be a ToE slingshot I'm afraid. The French are building ToE in Rheims and I investigated it and they will complete in 13 turns. New York, at 17 SPT, requires 35 turns to complete a 600 shield wonder.

I've been working on trading up some more and am having difficulty because our lux resources can not be used because of trade embargos. The Vikings, Americans and Iroquois still all have embargoes against us and France wants nearly all our Gold for either Electricity or Industrialization. Self research will require much time, 18 turns for Industrialization at 60% and we'll be making 14 GPT. I think it'll be purchase or pointy stick.

Looking at the map, I think I will begin to set up for an attack against the core of the Vikings lands. The cities on the western isthmus are never going to be of any size or productive capability so we can clean them up at our leisure later. The heavy fighting will be on the home turf of the civs, imho.

EDIT - Here is the screenie of Rheims.

Oh - Oh, a triple post!! :nono: to me!

We are at war again, with the Vikings, Japan and China. The last 2 had Mutual Protection Pacts with the Vikings. Our economy is mobilized and producing lots of shields. We have captured 3 Viking cities, including their capital. I took what Alan had done and added to it. Here is << THE SAVE >> (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Xteam_SG005_AD1550_01.SAV)

Here is the turn log:
Pre-flight 1500 AD – Turn 290
From Alan:
- Bought an embassy in Paris for 94 gold. You've seen the screen shot.
- Made peace with Egypt for Banking and maps. Egypt's embargo w/ America ends.
- Bought Magnetism and ToG from France for 24gpt + ivory + maps.
- We get Nationalism.
- Gave Lincoln peace for Medicine, Dallas, Detroit, and maps. His embargo with China ends.
- Bought Steam from Keltoi for Medicine + 276 + maps.
- We have no coal, but can bring a roaded source into range near Boston with a rushed library.
Leif’s start:
Rush a Library in Boston for 60 Gold.
Checking F7, the only one currently building Theory of Evolution is France in Rheims. So we investigate Rheims for 170 Gold. France is 13 turns from ToE completion. ToE requires 600 shields to build and our fastest city is New York with 17 SPT. That means about 35 turns to completion, I don’t think we have a chance.
Sell Theory of Gravity to India for Economics, 2 GPT, 24 Gold (all he had) and WM.
Start a Warrior in Detroit.
Move Galleys towards Toledo for upgrade to Galleons.
Move Caravels to towards Toledo for upgrade to Galleons.
MM Thebes to gain a shield.
Change production in Atlanta, Madras, Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta and Washington to Marketplace.
All of our Caravel builds have changed to Galleon automatically.
Hire a Tax Collector in Madras and Atlanta to prevent revolt, also MM those cities.
Change production in Santiago and Baltimore to Barracks.
Change production in Heliopolis, Giza and Elephantine to Barracks.
Change Galleon builds in Houston and Memphis to Barracks as the time it will take to move the Galleons around the continent to where we need them will make them unusable.
Change Galleon build in Chicago to Cannon.
Cvhange Cossack build in Madrid, Lahore and Toledo to Galleon.
Begin moving Cossacks and Cannons to Santiago for shipment to the Viking homeland.
There are 2 sources of coal in the former Egyptian area. One is just outside of Dallas and the other is located 4 squares NE of Elephantine. Can’t get there with a cultural expansion, but we can with a colony if we need it.
I hope that is everything? With a prayer, press enter.

IBT
The Iroquois request an audience. They want 740 Gold for Sanitation, not on my list but I try to negotiate with them. Nothing to trade at the moment, they still have a trade embargo against us.
The Americans are angry with us as a Cossack is near Cincinnati, so I apologize.
We are notified that our Golden Age has ended.
Boston Library => Mareketplace.
Seattle Library => Barracks.
We get a palace addition.

Turn 291 – 1505 AD
Wake a Cossack near Cincinnati and move him towards Moscow.
Upgrade two Galleys to Galleons at a cost of 60 Gold each in Toledo.

IBT
New York Cossack => Cossack.
Lahore Galleon => Galleon.

Turn 292 – 1510 AD
Upgrade 4 Caravels to Galleons in Toledo at a cost of 40 Gold each.
Change build in Detroit form Warrior to Harbor.
Cash rush a Library in San Francisco for 28 Gold.
Cash rush a Library in Philadelphia for 20 Gold.

IBT
The Mongols request and audience. They want to sell us Sanitation for 720 Gold. I decide to talk with them. They have nothing of interest.
The Chinese want to talk. They want to trade Maps. I decide not to so that I can go around next turn and see if we can make any Gold.
Philadelphia Library => Marketplace.
Calcutta Marketplace => Cossack.
San Frabcisco Library => Marketplace.

Turn 293 – 1515 AD
MM San Francisco for food and shields.
Change build in Elephantine to Library and cash rush for 88 Gold.
Cash Rush a Galleon n Toledo for 108 Gold.
Change build in Baltimore to Galleon and cash rush for 120 Gold.
Change build in Alexandria to Galleon.
Update Maps and make 14 Gold trading them around.

IBT
The Trade embargo against us between Iroquois and America has ended.
India and Aztecs have signed a Mutual Protection Pact.
Elephantine Library => Barracks.
Toledo Galleon => Galleon.
Baltimore Galleon => Barracks.
We get another palace expansion.
The Japanese are building Universal Suffrage.

Turn 294 – 1520 AD
Start building some rails.
Move Galleons into position to load.
Continue moving forces to Santiago for embarkation.
Tried to trade with the Iroquois, but they still think the Trade Embargo is on, so next turn.

IBT
Madrid Galleon => Galleon.
Dehli Marketplace => Cossack.
Moscow Cossack => Cossack.
Memphis Barracks => Library.

Turn 295 – 1525 AD
Cash rush a Galleon in Alexandria for 156 Gold.
The Iroquois still have a Trade Embargo against us with Egypt!
England and Egypt have a trade embaro against us.
Sell furs to the Zulus for WM, 77 Gold (all he had) plus 3 GPT.
Trade World Map plus 1777 Gold to France for Electricity.
Tade Electricity plus Furs to Japan for Industrialization, 2 Gold (all he had) plus WM.
We are now able to trade for Replacable Parts. Those civs that do not have it include:
Vikings, Keltoi, England, America, Japan, Egypt, Zulus, China, Mongols and India.
Change build in Thebes from Galleon to Marketplace.
Decide that we have all the marketplaces built or under construction that we need and mobilize our economy.
Cool, shields are popping up eveywhere!! :cool:

IBT
Alexandria Galleon => Barracks.
Chittagong Cossack => Cossack.
The English are building Theory of Evolution, they’ll lose that race!

Turn 296 – 1530 AD
Continue railing.
Have 11 Galleons loaded with Cossacks and Cannons.

IBT
A French Frigate does circles around our convoy of Galleons headed towards the Vikings.
New York Cossack => Cossack.
Madras Marketplace => Cossack.
Seville Cossack => Cossack (5 turns).
Chicago Cannon => Cossack (10 turns).
The French city of Besancon has completed Universal Suffrage.
The Iroquois are building Theory of Evolution.

Turn 297 – 1535 AD
Railing Madras.
Preping for Viking Campaign.
Trade Metallurgy to Egypt for 2 workers and a WM.

IBT
The Trade Embargo against us between Egypt and Iroquois has ended.
The Trade Embargo against us between Egypt and England has ended.
The rampaging Zulu have destroyed the Egyptians. That ended all the trade embargoes against us. :goodjob:
Heliopolis Barracks => Cossack.
Calcutta Cosack => Cossack.

Turn 298 – 1540 AD
Continue to prepare for the Vikings.

IBT
Viking Frigates have a look at our fleet off their coast.
Delhi Cossack => Cossack.
Moscow Cossack => Cossack.
The French are building Hoover Dam. :cringe:

Turn 299 – 1545 AD
We declare war on the Vkings and begin to offload our Galleons near Nidaros,
A Cossack Army, 14 Cannon, and 26 Cossacks.
Battle for Snagarst
A Vet Cossack attacks a Vet Cavalry and we defeat him, redlining.
A Vet Cossack attacks a Reg Pike and defeats him, losing 2 HP. We capture the city, a settler and 2 gold. There is one resistor there. Set build to Barracks.
Japan and China had Mutual Protection Pacts with the Vikings and deeclare war on us.
There are 2 stacks of Japanese units near Snagarst, so we attack them as well.
A Vet Knight attacks a Vet Japanese LB covering a settler and defeats him, redlining. We capture 2 slaves.
A Reg Army attacks a Vet Japanese Cavalryman and kills him, losing 3 HP, capturing 2 slaves. Set slaves to clearing jungle.
Checked into buying alliances against the Japanese and Vikings. France won’t consider the Japanese but will go against the Vikings for all our gold and most of our GPT. I do not make the alliance and now begin praying that more alliances will not be made against us.

IBT
Two Viking Frigates sink 2 of our Galleons, one redlines and promotes, the other does so losing 1 HP.
A Viking Ironclad escorting a Galleon heads north. Four Cavalry were seen entering the town where the Galleon departed from, that means less to fight in their capital.
Madrid Galleon => Galleon.
Atlanta Marketplace => Cossack.
Santiago Baracks => Cannon.

Turn 300 – 1550 AD
Battle of Nidaros.
The battle starts with a cannonade of 14 Cannons.
1 – Kills some citizens, 2 – failed, 3 – Takes a HP from a Vet Rifleman, 4 – failed, 5 – failed, 6 – takes a HP from a Reg Rifle, 7 – failed, 8 – failed, 9 – failed, 10 – Some citizens were killed, 11 – Takes a HP from a Reg Rifle, 12 – Takes a HP from a Reg Rifle, the good news is that we are already back to the vet Rifle again, 13 – failed, 14 – takes a HP from the Vet Rifle, now 2/4.
Elite Cossack attacks 2/3 Rifle and defeats him losing 1 HP.
Elite Cossack attacks 2/3 Rifle and defeats him, redlining but we have a new leader, Zukhov!
Vet Cossack attacks 2/3 Rifle and defeats him, redlining.
Vet Cossack attacks 2/4 Rifle and defeats him flawlessly.
Vet Cossack attacks 2/2 Rifle and retreats, no damage.
Vet Cossack attacks 2/2 Rifle and retreats, no damage, superhuman! [pissed]
Vet Cossack attacks same 2/2 Rifle and retreats, no damage.
Vet Cossack attacks same 2/2 Rifle and defeats him flawlessly.
We take Nidaros, capture Newton’s University and 3 Gold. There are 5 resistors.
The city has a Marketplace, Bank and Newton’s.
We still have about 15 Cossacks and an Army, so I decide to attack Stockholm.

Battle of Stockholm.
Vet Cossack attacks Vet Rifle and the Cossack is defeated, redlining the Rifle but he Rifle promotes.
Vet Cossack attacks Reg Rifle and he retreats causing 1 HP loss on the Rifle.
Vet Cossack attacks 2/3 Rifle and he defeats him, losing 1 HP.
Vet Cossack attacks 2/5 Rifle and he defeats him flawlessly.
Vet Cossack attacks 2/2 Rifle and he retreats causing no damage (I’d rather face elites!)
Vet Cossack attacks same 2/2 Rifle and he retreats causing no damage!
Vet Cossack attacks same 2/2 Rifle and he defeats him, losing 1 HP and promotes to elite.
Elite Cossack attacks Vet Cavalry and defeats him losing 1 HP.
Vet Cossack attacks Vet Galloglass and defeats him, redlining. We take the city, capturing 3 gold and destroying a Frigate in the process. We install a new governor in Stockholm and there are 10 resistors. Stockholm has only a marketplace. Set build to Harbor as the city has gems in its radius.
Move the Galleons back towards Santiago for reloading.

Battle of Sopporo
Elite Cossack attacks a Japanese Reg Rifle and defeats him, destroying the city, a frigate and capturing 1 Gold.

After Action Report
Our economy is mobilized for war. We are at war with the Vikings, Japanese and Chinese due to Mutual Protection Pacts. We have taken the Viking Capital, Nidiros and Stockholm. I had planned to try to keep Stockholm as there are Gems in its radius and we need luxuries. It doesn’t have a Harbor or a Baracks. The Cossacks around these cities are fortified and have movement left so that the next player may rearrange them as they feel it would be best before the turn changes. The cities may be kept or abandoned, I left that for the next player to decide. Also, as always, please feel free to change any builds as you see necessary.

We have the opportunity to trade for Replacable parts with the Iroquois for Ivory, Furs, WM and 1194 Gold. I would consider this as our cannons can be upgraded to artillery. :thumbsup:

The Frigates of Japan and the Vikings are quite active and they lke to bombard the coastal improvements.

There are several towns in the north still producing Marketplaces. If you change from them, you will not be allowed to change back as Mobilization will not allow it. We can build Barracks and Harbors, so that is good.

Firaxis Score is 474, Jason Score is 310.

Good luck to the next player. I wanted to finish it today as we are forcasted to get 20 to 30 inches of snow :eek: this evening into tomorrow and I may not have an internet connection for a couple of days. Have fun!!

Nice turns Leif! See you don't even need to drink to play a good turnset :lol: Again good luck with the snow. I Vote for Rep Parts...Lets get some Arti!

Congrats Mistfit on your Gotm38 finish. Midway thru the game I decide to try for space since I was running out of time. I think my best diplo date would have been a few turns after your date had I gone that route.
Thanks. That was a very enjoyable game for me. Things seemed to go right for a change. One of these days I'm going to beat both you and Alan... One of these days... :goodjob: I think that moves me up to a GPR of 56 or so I'm slowly creeping up there with you guys. I feel that my game play is mediocre in comparison to many of you guys but I'm learning and improving.

Who's up?

Alan was a swap with Leif, is it back to Alan?

This is the roster that Alan posted before he left:

DJMGator13
Capt Buttkick - still skipped? If not then On Deck
AlanH UP
leif erikson - on deck if Capt not available
Mistfit - just played

I'm away from tomorrow until Wednesday, so I'll play the next set anyway. Capt and leif can then sort out who plays next. Consider this my GOT IT, and I'll have a look at it, investigate Paris, and try to post some thoughts before I start.
Then I switched with Alan. I think Alan will be back tomorrow. Unless someone objects, I think we should wait until then and see if Alan has time to pick it up.

EDIT - So the roster should look like this:

leif - just played and shovelling madly :eek:
AlanH - UP
Capt Buttkick - On Deck, if he has some free time? :mischief:
Mistfit - catching up on sleep? :D
Gator - waiting anxiously ;)

Cool, I was afraid I was up and did not know it :)
I hadn't checked the roster in awhile and I did not know how long Alan was away for.

Hi Guys. I apologise. Releasing the GOTM 38 results took me much longer than I expected, and I've run out of time before I travel to Brussels tomorrow. I'm going to have to skip.

Sorry, I understood I asked for a skip. I'll pick it up if you like, but it won't be for another 24 hours to get it and possibly another 24 to play and post. I just got back from Brussels tonight and it's too late to do anything now.

That's fine with me.

Sorry, I understood I asked for a skip. I'll pick it up if you like, but it won't be for another 24 hours to get it and possibly another 24 to play and post. I just got back from Brussels tonight and it's too late to do anything now.
Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought we were trading places, but you did use the word skip. :blush: If you would like to pick it up, I have no objection.

Hope you had a pleasant trip. :D

OK, Got it. I'll try to play and post tonight. Yes, thanks, visited friends in Belgium, did a bit of sight-seeing as all my previous visits have been flying business trips, and spend several happy hours helping to get their home network running smoothly. I'm now waiting for the panic phone call as the carefully configured router decides to rebel.

We have a leader who has been hanging around for two turns. What do we think's best? Obviously can't use him for ToE - wouldn't that be nice! :hmm:.

We have a leader who has been hanging around for two turns. What do we think's best?
What are our Options?
I don't have the game on my office deck or I'd check myself

EDITED FOR STUPIDITY

Oops Wrong Game

What are our Options?
I don't have the game on my office deck or I'd check myself

1. Disband him for 250 shields somewhere where we don't have resistance. We could use it to rush a 100 shield market place in one of the locations where we are building one, or a harbour or barracks somewhere.

2. Build an army.

Info for discussionary purposes:

It looks like we are able to sell resourses and lux to most everyone (through harbors I presume) Could we use this to help get back into the tech race? This IMHO is a bit risky for 2 reasons:

Will the added resource or lux help in giving them a larger tech lead?

Is the trade route safe?I'm looking at trading options to get techs. We need to get to tanks asap so that we can take on the French before they have MI. I don't think we need to worry about trade route security now that we have ocean access to all civs. The only danger would be a blockade of Moscow's sea access, which is quite narrow and can be blocked by two ships. I think this has happened before, early in the game. I don't think we need to worry about anyone except the French, and they have all the luxuries anyway.

oops I posted that in the wrong thread :suicide:

Ooops, somehow I double posted the same message. :eek: :blush: Please remove this post, please?? :cry:

@Mistfit - I think we had better stop drinking in the afternoons!! ;) :lol: :lol: :lol:

1. Disband him for 250 shields somewhere where we don't have resistance. We could use it to rush a 100 shield market place in one of the locations where we are building one, or a harbour or barracks somewhere.

2. Build an army.
imho, I think we should consider using him to rush a Harbor in Stockholm. I think we should get rid of Nidiros (when it no longer has value in allowing us to move troops against other cities because of its cultural radius) as Stockholm has the gems in its radius and we need a harbor to get them to Moscow. While we tame Stockholm, we can work on a Rax, cash rush what's left when the resistance is gone and then use Zhukov to build a Harbor and get those Gems to Moscow. :D While Armies are good to cover our troops, they are not powerful enough to make a lot of them.

EDIT - BTW, the leader appeared in the last turn, so I left him for you because I was tired and couldn't decide what the best use for him would be. :crazyeye:

I think you're right, although our happiness problems are minimal currently. We have 10% lux tax, costing 24 gpt, and we could actually lower that without major effect - one or two taxmen is all it would take, and I think I inherited one that was unnecessary at 10% as it was.

BTW, Moscow was producing a food surplus, with sub-optimal spt and gpt in the save. Am I missing something?

BTW, Moscow was producing a food surplus, with sub-optimal spt and gpt in the save. Am I missing something?
No, I think I missed something. iirc, I spent a great deal of time working on the northern cities but spent very little rechecking Moscow. I, obviously, missed something that happened to change the way I thought it was set up. My MM skills still need more practice! :rolleyes:

The reason I wanted to get the lux home is because some of the northern cities, Madras and Atlanta for 2, are not growing because they needed taxmen (Madras, which actually could have the taxman removed now) or were soon to need them (Atlanta). With another lux, we can let them grow some more. Some of the other northern cities will need some more happiness as they are growing too. But it is not an immediate priority.

Fairy nuff :) I'll have to play this tomorrow. My eyelids keep hitting the keyboard, and they'd play even worse than I do.

Just to give you guys time to get someone else I'll let you know that I will not be participating in SGOTM 06. I've really enjoyed playing with all of you but I'm afraid that time will not permit me to play again. Be sure that I will be lurking.

Thanks Mistfit. It's been fun.

My current performance prompts me to ponder whether I should be signing up again myself .. I'm trying to get my set in now. I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment.

Mistfit, you can't leave now, I finally figured out that there is a t in your nick!! :p :lol:

Sorry to see you go, it has been fun. :goodjob:

But, we still have to finish this one. :rockon:

No Mistfit you can't leave. I'm going to bug you relentlessly if you don't play with us. :p

If you give up playing xOTM and your goal of dominating the world rankings you could spend more time with us :lol:

Sorry it's taken so long. RL got in the way and it was a complicated turn set. Here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Xteam_SG005_AD1600_01.SAV)'s the save

Good news: The Vikings are on their last legs and will give all their remaining towns for peace. We have all the mandatory techs that everyone else has, except France.

Bad news: We shall have to build Marines to kill China. The Viking ironclads drowned at least 5 cossacks and three artillery on their way to the front. France is up at least Atomic Theory and Steel. The only oil is under the Iroquois and France :eek:

Turn 300 1550 AD Preflight
F1: Fire taxmen, slider to 10.0.0, Moscow to a food deficit for cossack in 2 turns. Now at 218gpt.
F4: Buy Replaceable Parts from Iroquois for Ivory + Furs + 67gpt + Map. We have rubber near Elephantine.
Sell Rep.Parts to England for Scientific Method + Corporation + 5 gold.
France has Atomic Theory but other than that we are up to date or ahead on all mandatory techs. We could trade for optionals if we wanted them.

Moves:
4/4 cossack kills Viking cavalry on muntain near Shanghai -> 3/4.

@Bjoergvin:
4/4 cossack dies vs 4/4 rifle -> 2/4
4/4 cossack kills 2/4 rifle
4/4 cossack kills 4/4 galloglass -> 2/4
4/4 cossack kills 4/4 galloglass -> 3/4
5/5 cossack kills 3/3 spear -> 3/5
5/5 cossack kills 3/3 spear -> 4/5
... and captures Bjoergvin with 6 resisters, 1 taxman and a Barracks.

Move 5 cossacks and army to iron hill outside Oslo. Move cossacks in America towards Santiago & Toledo for embarkation. Move cannons towards barracks cities for upgrade.

Deep breath .. next turn

IBT
Mongols build Tsetserleg in north.
Vikings bombard our Oslo stack and knock 2hp off the army. Their navy attacks our galleons and two of their ships die. Cavalry kills a 1/4 cossack near Stockholm -> 3/4.
Aztecs and Japan sign a TE against us. Japan sinks 1 galleon, attacks two more and sinks. One Samurai approaching Moscow.
Nidaros riots s resistance reduces -> 3 resisters + 5 taxmen.
New York riots - I moved their MPs and forgot to check :(. Scan the rest - no more problems.
Bangalore and New Orleans cossack -> cossack. Houston barracks -> cossack.

Turn 301 1550 AD
Upgrade 5 cannon (80 each).
4/4 cossack kills 3/4 cavalry outside Stockholm, no damage.
4/4 cossack dies vs. 4/4 cavalry in jungle near Bjoergvin -> 1/4. 3/4 cossack kills him -> 2/4.

@Oslo: 4/4 cossack dies vs 3/3 rifle -> 2/3
4/4 cossack kills 2/3 rifle -> 2/4
5/5 cossack kills 2/2 rifle -> 3/5
5/5 cossack kills 3/3 pike -> 2/5
... and captures Oslo with 7 resisters, 2 taxmen, Barracks and Harbour [dance]

Disband Zukhov on Oslo for a 250-shield cossack.

Sell Gems to Iroquois for 28gpt + 3 gold + Map.

IBT
Mongols complain about our units lurking near their new town. They are stuck on the wrong end of the peninsula. Maybe an auto-eject will get them out?
Vikings bombard our army on Oslo's iron hill again. -2 hp. They attack a galleon and lose. 2 ironclads and 2 galleons approach Moscow.
America and Japan sign TE against us.
Japan sinks a galleon. A Japanese Samurai and an Axeman are now approaching Moscow.
Nidaros flips to China with 1 cossack.

Moscow, New York, Madras, Seville, Oslo, Calcutta, Chittagong all compete cossacks and start cossack. Bombay market -> barracks

France completes Theory of Evolution, so they'll have new techs.

Turn 302 1560 AD
France has Refining. Can't see her second freebie. No deals.

3 cossacks recapture Nidaros from 3/3 rifle - 2 retreat without inflicting damage, thrid one kills.
Cossack dies vs. Japan Axeman near Moscow -> 2/4. Move another cossack into Moscow vs possible galloglass attack from approacking galleons.

Ship 11 cossacks south from Santiago in a convoy with two empty support galleons inca se of sinkings. Upgrade 10 cannon in Oslo. Position troops on bottlenecks to hold off counter-attacks. Slider 9.0.1 for New York and Moscow.

IBT
Viking ships approach Moscow. Vikings sink one empty galleon in our convoy. Three Viking cavalry approach El Amarna - undefended on teh western archipelago.

Delhi cossack->cossack. Memphis library->cossack. Seattle barracks->cossack. Oslo riots.

Turn 303 1565 AD
Our only cossack in range of El Amarna dies vs approaching Viking cossacks->2/4.
Cossack dies vs samurai near Moscow->2/4. Second cossack kills him.
One galleon of cossacks diverts towards El Amarna to recapture after it's taken next turn.
Short rush an infantry via Galleon at Moscow for 100-and-something.
The Viking ships have not stopped our trade routes, which can go via the other civs on our home island even thought we don't have RoP.
Move cossacks and artillery to threaten Norrkoping, Shanghai and Linkoping.

IBTTE between India and America ends.
Vikings sink empty galleon, and capture El Amarna unopposed.
2 viking cavalry land near Moscow and a galloglass kills one cossack.
Keltoi complains about cossack en route to El Amarna overland.
Japan bombards random shore locations.
Nidaro, Oslo and Stockholm riot as resisters are suppressed.
Alexantria barracks->cossack.

Turn 304 1570 AD

@Linkoping: 8 arty fire. 6 miss, one knocks 1hp off 3/3 rifle, one takes out barracks. Why did I bother :hmm:
4/4 cossack kills 2/3 rifle->1/4
4/4 cossack kills 3/3 spear->2/4
... and takesLinkoping with dyes and aqueduct.

@Shanghai: 5/5* cossack kills 4/4 rifle->2/5
4/4 cossack kills 3/3 rifle->3/4
... and captures Shanghai with barracks and aqueduct.

@Norrkoping: 2 cossacks retreat
4/4 cossack kills 3/3 rifle
4/4 cossack kills 3/3 spear
... and captures Norrkoping

@Goteburg:
Arty redline 3/3 rifle
5/5 cossack kills 3/3 spear->2/5
4/4 cossack dies vs. 1/3 rifle->2/4
4/4 cossack kills 2/4 rifle->2/4
... and captures Gotegurg

Vikings would now give us 2 towns for peace.

@Moscow: 2 cossacks kill 2 viking cavalry to 1/4, 3/4
Upgrade elite knight to cossack. There's no point in being precious about elites. Leaders are next to useless.
Land 4 cossacks on mountain north of El Amarna
Spot 2 Galloglass and an Axeman approaching from south.

Set up to attack Uppsala and Orebro (sp? - Mac character set doesn't work with Scandinavian accented characters in Civ)

IBT
Aztecs and China sign TE.
Viking frigate sinks in attack on galleon. Galloglass attacks Moscow again and dies.
Japan bombs road to Linkoping and disconnects dyes trade route :(. 2 samurai and a cavalry land on former viking lands.
Madrid galleon->galleon
Moscow riots because of lost dyes. Bjoergvin resistance reducing and riots.
New York, Madras, Atlanta cossack->cossack. Giza barracks->cossack.

Turn 305 1575 AD
6 arty bombard Japanese landing party and redline them all. 2 4/4 cossacks kill the samurai and a 2/5 cossack kills the cavalry.

@Uppsala: 4/4 cossack kills 3/3 rifle->2/4
5/5 cossack kills 3/3 spear no damage
... and takes Uppsala

@Orebro:
4/4 cossack dies vs. 4/4 rifle->3/4
4/4 cossack dies vs. 3/3 rifle, no damage
4/4 cossack retreats vs. 3/3 rifle->2/3
4/4 cossack retreats vs. 3/3 rifle no damage
4/4 cossack retreats vs. 3/3 rifle no damage
4/4 cossack retreats vs. 3/3 rifle->2/3
4/4 cossack dies vs. 3/4 rifle->2/5
3/4 cossack kills 2/2 rifle->1/4
4/4 cossack retreats vs. 2/3 rifle no damage
4/5 cossack kills 2/3 rifle-> 2/5
5/5 cossack kills 2/3 rifle->1/5
4/4 cossack kills 2/5 rifle->3/4
... and captures Orebro

Outside El Amarna:
4/4 cossack kills viking axeman->1/4
4/4 cossack kills galloglass->2/4

@El Amarna:
4/4 cossack dies vs 4/4 cavalry, no damage, promotes to 5/5.
4/4 cossack kills 5/5 cavalry->1/4.
4/4 cossack kills 2/4 cavalry->3/4
... and recaptures El Amarna

Iroquois now have Refining. Price is around 110 gpt.
Damn! Just realised when I took Shanghai the Chinese capital jumped to a one-tile island :eek: We'll need marines to take them down now.

IBT
Japan sinks galleon
Moscow infantry->cossack
Calcutta cossack->cossack
Stockholm & Linkoping riot as resistance fades.

Turn 306 1580 AD Consolidate and recover troops.

IBT Mongols and Vikings sign TE.
Kelts offer 7gpt for furs. Negotiate to buy wool for furs, gems and map.

Japan bombards again
Delhi, Seville, Chicago cossacks->cossacks. Bombay barracks->cossack.

Turn 307 1585 AD Move troops towards Qitaimjorg.

IBT Lose a galleon to an ironclad, with 3 arty and a cossack.
Japan offers peace for Corporation. Offer 1gpt+14gold+map instead. OK.
Washington market->barracks. New York cossack->cossack. Baltimore barracks->cossack.

Turn 308 1590 AD
Rebuild dyes road. Mobilization has ended, but decide not to restart it in case next player wants to start culture builds first, as we are two turns away from hand-off.

IBT
Mongol stack lands near Detroit.
Two galleons sunk wth troops on board. The Viking ironclads are taking their toll.
England and America sign MPP.
Aztecs offer Democracy for Medecine. Sorry laddie, Democracy is not on our road map. Swap maps instead.
Madras, Chittagong cossack->cossack. Toledo galleon->ironclad. Elephantine barracks->cossack.

Turn 309 1595 AD
@Qitaimjorg: artillery cut pop from 9 to 7, redline two rifles and take out the library. First cossack over the top dies vs 2/2 rifle.
Cossacks kill 3 rifles with minimum damage and
... Qitaimjorg is ours.

The Vikings are now consigned to the western archipelago. They would now give three cities for peace. Move troops on down from EL Amarna to threaten Malmo. Move galleons and cossacks towards Oslo to embark towards their other towns. Oslo is a canal city giving galleon access to the western lands.

Buy Refining from France for 85gpt + 8 + map. She has Steel. We have no oil :( All the oil is in France and Iroquois, and neither will sell. Iroquois are short of coal. we could hook up another source and see if we can swap for oil?

IBT
Mongol stack settles Baruun Urt near Detroit and signs a TE with China.
Madrid galleon->ironclad. Moscow cossack->cossack. Boston market->cossack. SanFrancisco market->barracks. Buffalo harbour->barracks.

Turn 310 1600 AD
@Malmo: cossack kills spear and destroys Malmo. I haven't moved much else.

Handover report
Vikings would now give all their towns for peace. We have troops and ships ready to move towards the western archipelago where we could destroy the last Viking town and a Chinese city.

We have a trade deal with Zulus for another few turns, so I haven't gone after them yet. We are also trading with Keltoi. We could take out the Mongols on the archipelago, then run throgh the Zulus when the trade deal has expired, then roll on into the Mongol home territory next door. That would leave the Keltoi and America as smaller fish, followed by England, then Japan, Iroquois and France.

I didn't raze any cities because (a) they had barracks or harbours or resources (b) Oslo is a canal, and (c) they are keeping AI settlers at bay. We may want to start a few culture buildings or markets to capture resources or expand borders or whatever, then return to mobilization. I haven't analysed those options. I have started a road on coal near Bombay to give us a trading option with Iroquois for oil.

Sounds like were making progress - we might be able to win before 2050 at this point ;)

Mistfit and myself traded places last go around so I think this puts Mistfit up (switching back our spots) unless the Capt. is able to play.

Roster
Mistfit - 1500AD
Gator - 1450AD
Leif - 1550AD
Alan - 1600AD
Capt - up next whenever he has time to play

We need to move along as SGOTM6 is almost under way. I suggest we relax the 10 turn rule, and play whatever's possible, maybe a range of 5 to 15 turns each? I'll let Captain, Gator and Mistfit decide who plays next, depending who has the first available time slot. First got it gets it :D

we might be able to win before 2050 at this point Unless France launches or builds the UN ...

The earliest I can pick it up is late tonight or in the morning so If someone wants to play some turns inbetween I'm all for it.

Thoughts:
Could we talk the vikings into warring with the Chinese seeing that they can attack them now? Once that happens we can war with the vikings and take it for peace?

I still say the French are most vunarable from the spot I've mapped ot below. I know that at the end of my last turnset we were able to sign a RoP with the Irr so we could base our opperations out of Kauwaka with the possibility of taking 4 cities with in the first turn. Then it would be on to Lyons and Paris.

I don't want to wipe everyone off the map and then take on the French. I'd prefer to get MA's with the Irr at least before we go to war with them
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/French_Attack.jpg
@ Gator - I'll think about it. I owe you guys so much for the experiance and teaching you've provided me I'd hate to leave you in a lurch.

@Mistfit: I agree completely with your assessment of 'Where', but 'When' are you suggesting we should start on the French? I'm unclear whether you feel we should have started already, rather than sign up a gpt deal as I just did?

I can play today and post something tonight for Mistfit to grab tomorrow. I'll shot for 12 - 15 turns.

Eventually we will have to hit FRA and I would like some powerful MAs when we do. But it might be too early for it now. I look at it when I play.

Please do not take my suggestions as a criticism of your decisions. I just wanted to point out a possible spot to attack the frence When the time comes. I also would consider leaving the Japanese and Iroquois around when we decide to attack the French to absorb the initial onslaught.

Sell furs to the Zulus for WM, 77 Gold (all he had) plus 3 GPT.
This deal is still ongoing for another 5 turns.
Do we want to break it and attack or wait and build up?

No, I didn't see it as criticism, but if it had been there's no problem with that either. I was just not lear whether you were thinking we should take the French on now, with Cossacks vs Infantry. It's an option, but would cost a lot, and it's worth discussion.

As I indicated in the hand-down, I think we could do some mopping up around the western isles for a few turns while the Zulu deal expires, maybe take on the mongols over there. I'm not too keen on breaking a 20 turn deal yet, as we'll need some more tech purchases to keep close in the tech race. When tanks are available we need to be able to trade for the tech as soon as possible and try to get to France before they build the UN. We'd be candidates, I'm sure, but I doubt if anyone would vote for us, and that isn't the objective anyway.

We might want to make a trade to obtain Espionage. While I have never played with it very much, iirc, it gives us an option to sabotage city production. I hope it works against wonders. Here is an article about espionage missions (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97042)

Some random thoughts:

I agree we need allies against France to soak up some of their units. I'm not sure we're going to make without tanks, and without oil, there will be no tanks. I think Alan's idea about coal plus whatever the Iroq. need for oil is a great idea. Mistfit's idea is a good one, but we need to get some armor, imho.

China has some silks near Moscow on an island we might think about taking, just to get some lux.

Good luck Gator.

Lux is in pretty good shape right now. I don't think we need to get above pop 12 anywhere, and now we have gems and dyes, and we have wool from the kelts that we can take over when we get there, I don't think there's any problem that a few markets can't fix. Even a 10% lux tax isn't going to break the bank.

Then our main goal is getting to Motorized Transport and coming up with a supply of oil we can count on.

In the meantime, would it be worth it to us to take a few civs out completely to eliminate their settling into the areas we clear? We can't upgrade Cossacks to tanks, so I suppose it doesn't really matter where those units wind up on the map. To take down France, if we decide to use tanks, will require us to build a whole 'nuther army. In the meantime, once our deals with France expire, can we buy the Iroquois into an alliance against France and defend Moscow while we build a new army of tanks? We have time to prepare for this.

Looks to me as if we should just continue to work up the continent from the Vikings, to China, Zulu, and Mongols as we prepare for the goal of taking on France.

There are two directions of travel, to the western archipelago, where civs go to die, and east along the southern continent to England, then north through Japan towards France.

Vikings are not on the southern continent any more, and are all but dead if we make peace for their last three cities now. We can pick off their capital any time. China is a special case. They have two cities, one of which is their capital on a one tile island, the other can be wiped out as we go after the Mongols on the western archipelago. We have Zulus at our mercy as soon as the furs deal expires. We have enough fire power in Scandinavia to wipe them out in a few turns. Mongols have a homeland next door to the Zulus, so if we declare on them and start killing off their western archipelago towns our main armies can continue east through them. We then hit the Kelts and the English, both of which we have 20 turn deals going with now. So we may need to pause at that point for a few turns to let those deals expire. We may also need England or Japan to buy French techs to get the prices down for us. Prices are very steep until three civs have the techs. We need six more techs to get tanks, and we are going to need Amphibious Warfare as well.

I can acquire COMM in the preturn, would it be beneficial to make a switch to increase the production in some of our other cities. I pm'd Mistfit and Alan directly since they were online, but Alan jumped off too quick.

I'll wait a little while before continuing to play.

Well unfortunately I have never switched to that form of government before. It was one of te things I was looking forward to in GK02. I can't help ya there. I will be happy to play as a commie for my next turn set but will prolly need a bit of explanation in your turn down report. Does that form require MP to help happiness? If so I doubt we have enough units to go around.

As a monarchy we have the same MP issue. I can't remember the last time I used COMM in a CivIII game. I know we would lose production in our core but would the gain in production from our corrupt (and closer to the front) cities is that enough to overcome the lose in the core?

If so it's probably a good time to switch as we are approaching the end of useful life of cossacks and be prepared to start mass producing tanks, artillery and infantry.

I've never experienced Communism. It could be useful once the southern cities have starved and regrown, and at least we'd get some practice at it before we are forced to use it in SGOTM 6. We aren't going to win any medals here, so we might as well use it as a learning opportunity. @Mistfit: Monarchy already uses MPs for happiness, which is one of the things I forgot when I let New York riot in my turn set. But with the luxes we have now we don't need any MPs - at least we didn't until Gator told me he's grabbed Sanitation. I guess we're going over the pop 12 limit in selected locations.

I got Sanitation cheap from JPN, we still have to build hospitals to use it.

I'll play it by ear on the switch to COMM. What I envision is being able to setup a semi productive core on the western end of the southern continent prior to getting tanks so that we don't have as far to transport them. With 45 cities we have a ton of corruption going on and our front line cities aren't adding to our war effort. Besides COMM would allow us to build the Secret HQ would could really help.

EDIT: I didn't realize there was a COMM restriction for SGOTM6. I think we should definately experiement with it. I'll try to take some F1 screenshots before and after the change if it occurs during my turnset.