catapults, tre's, cannon, artillery? How much emphasis do you guys put on them when building up a force? A couple of times I have built them only as a way of adding an alternative element to warfare in games I am already confident of victory in. I have always had doubts as to how useful they are when compared to using the shields to build offensive and defensive troops capable of taking or defending towns (and creating leaders). Plus the idea of having these units captured by other civ is an unnecessary worry. However, even when i have found their pillaging effects useful, (and really as a stack they're fairly easy to defend) - I rarely build them.

BUT... reading several game logs by other players, I cant help thinking that my refusal to use them is linked with my failure to win battles which decide the outcome of entire games at harder difficulties. Are they definetly units that I should be taking advantage of in general, or are they particularly useful when fighting armies of superior strenght or scientific development?

The upgrade path seems to make a stack of catapults a worth while investment but I have never really used them extensively. They are usually thrown in as an after thought if at all. 1 or 2 seems pointless in an invasion stack, but vast numbers takes shields away from troop production.

Are they most effective for defensive bombardment in border cities or in offense as a stack for pilaging or to support troops attacking cities. Or are they a useless diversion of shields which could be better spent on extra troops?

They're of most use when attacking metros. You can redline the defenders and possibly even bring the city size below 12. They also give defensive bombardment that will lengthen the life span of your own SoD in enemy territory.

Greetz Jurimax

I usually use catapults for attacking troops inside my territory and just outside enemy cities. As I go up the the tech tree, I use them more and more for attacking.

I usually don't start building until Cannon are available, but after that I build a lot.

They're not only effective in combat, but they're very cost effective. A stack of artillery can do a lot of damage in the course of a game and, unless you get careless, there's little risk of losing them in combat. Add to that the number of attack units you save since they're mostly attacking enemy units whose strength you've reduced with the artillery and bombardment units are probably the best investment you can make.

Artillery are the backbone of any effective army. bombard the enemy to red, then send in any units to destroy them. this way you have less casualties.

Artillery units are the best units by far. They are most useful in numbers. Usually, at least half my army consists of artillery units. Essential for high-level warring.

I usually use catapults for attacking troops inside my territory and just outside enemy cities. As I go up the the tech tree, I use them more and more for attacking.
Same here. I don't use them for attacking until cannons or artillery come up. Then I use them a LOT. Bombers make good defenders too.....

I usually use catapults for attacking troops inside my territory and just outside enemy cities. As I go up the the tech tree, I use them more and more for attacking.@Tomo: If you could play C3C, you'd use them earliier.... of course, in Vanilla you don't need Trebuchets to take on the Dutch, because there are no Dutch in Vanilla [civ3]

IMO, Trebuchets rawk! :hammer:

@Stoo.W: What Tomoyo is touching on is that the power of bombarding units generally increases as the game matures. In the ancient age it's tougher to raise a true 'combined arms' army...unless you're forced to (in the case of no horses or iron, "poor man's army", etc.)

Bombard units are your equalizer. For example: Dutch Swiss Mercenaries defend like musketmen, but are available with Feudalism. There really isn't a way to simply over-run them in the early Middle Ages... combined arms stacks that redline the SwissMercs before your MDI/Longbows/Knights attack can really improve your kill ratio...They are usually thrown in as an after thought if at all. 1 or 2 seems pointless in an invasion stack, but vast numbers takes shields away from troop production. Bombard units can be used effectively in defensive or offensive operations. The key to these units is concentrated firepower. One or two really is an afterthought...but a stack of 10-15 can do some serious damage.

I throw in a few trebs in an early Medieval stack and keep going from there. Late in the Middle Ages, I sometimes use cannons, but I sometimes like the speed of cavalry. After that, I use them a lot.

Artillary are vital to my way of playing.

Why go up close, putting your men at risk, when you can shell the s*** out of them beforehand??

Eh, I just subscribe to the Zap Brannigan theory of warfare... I just send wave after wave after wave of my own men at them, until the RNG reaches it's pre-determined limit and shuts off. :D

in the WWII pacific conquests, I was playing as China on Sid, and Artillery saved my life! they would redline enemy units and, since i can't afford to lose units, would take them out. i kind of just tried to survive as long as possible instead of actually trying to capture cities (since i had allies for that) :)

in the WWII pacific conquests, I was playing as China on Sid, and Artillery saved my life! they would redline enemy units and, since i can't afford to lose units, would take them out. i kind of just tried to survive as long as possible instead of actually trying to capture cities (since i had allies for that) :)
In that scenario artillery and bombers are vital to anyone's success.

An other use is to boom ship before they can land. The AI will send all damaged ships to a port city.

Good point too. I'm wondering if cruise missles can damage more than one units in a single attack. Does anyone have the answer to this?

Good point too. I'm wondering if cruise missles can damage more than one units in a single attack. Does anyone have the answer to this?


Sorry only one.

Darn. That makes them less effective. Oh well...guess I'll just stick with the bombers...

Bombers often replace conventional artillary for many players, but I always keep a couple of RA aswell - bombers can be intercepted.

artillery become more important in higher difficulty games where you begin to cringe at every unit lost. catapults and cannons are a bit weak so if your only attempts at putting bombarment units to work have been in the early game i can see how you might finally get to artillery and assume they are just like everything that came before them. but they are not.

artillery comes with replaceable parts. at this stage in the game the best offensive units you will have so far will be cavalry. i personally prefer cavalry to knock out invading forces than using defensive units. then along comes artillery and knowing that tanks are still a ways off i go on an artillery building binge. this is right after i built up my factories and such so my rate of military production has suddenly gone way up. by the time i get tanks i may have about 100 artillery.

now if you get invaded those 100 artillery will redline the invaders just fine so you wont need many defensive units at all. in the worst case scenario you can bomb out roads leading to your territory to slow the advance of enemy troops giving you more time to redline big stacks. but the beauty of it all is you lose very few units counterattacking the redlined units. in this way you can take out wave after wave IF the waves dont all come at you at once. then when the attackers stop coming (maybe because you are finally at peace) you dont have to spend many long turns rebuilding your military. chances are you will be able to go right back to war stronger than ever.

and artillery are THE way to reduce cities to make them easy and cheap to capture.

on low difficulty settings none of this much matters. but on higher levels the ai production rate is huge. you really need a way to cut the losses of your regular units.

I build & use catapults all the time - they work fine against ancient age troops.

The problems occur vs pikemen or fortified hilltop cities...

Amen Rysingsun!!

A fellow artillary fanatic :)

Bet you never heard of a spearman defeating an oncoming 2tonne shell :spear:!!

thanks for your thoughts guys. i am reaching the stage in my monarch game where artillary could be as useful as you mentioned. I used this tactic against the arabs (using canon) and managed to pick off wave afetr wave of superior troops, get a great leader to turn into a cavalry army (which gave me access to the epic and M.academy (and later the pentagon and more leaders)). PLUS - i noticed a sharp decline in the amount of troops being sent across nomansland as their forces were being sent to their doom. now i will upgrade and build more artillary and maybe an infantry army to defend the stack and take the arab empire!!

This thread has also got me back to playing as the english! The Man of War can be really quite useful when stacked - even against ironclads and fortified riflemen. + there is nothing more satifying than cratering an enemies only source of iron from the sea knowing they cant retaliate!

I'm a big believer in the humonguous Arty stack. The AI has no clue as how to stop it.

Siege weapons are pretty much useless until cannons / H'wacha, and have a main drawback that they need to be escorted by a strong defensive unit. They are indeed only useful in decent size numbers, but they are THE method to winning if you are forced (or choose) to field a smaller, or less powerful army.

1. Defense --> Place them in cities, or forts + key positions alonlg borders to deter / lessen attacks.
2. Attack --> These can be used to weaken defenses of a city or key position. They are even more valuable, if you have RR access to the target, and can mass cannon / artillery / radar artillery from every corner of your continent.
3. Bait --> A stack of siege with little or no protection is a great method of luring the AI to attack you, or advance further into your territory. I'm not sure of the exact math, but it's nearly as effective as doing so with workers.

Siege weapons are pretty much useless until cannons / H'wacha, and have a main drawback that they need to be escorted by a strong defensive unit. They are indeed only useful in decent size numbers, but they are THE method to winning if you are forced (or choose) to field a smaller, or less powerful army.


No way! Catapults and trebuchets are just as useful as cannons. Just put 10 catapults in your stack of swordsmen and you can conquer enemy cities with almost zero losses. Then do the same with trebuchets, medieval infantry, and pikemen. You can take down entire civs, and since you have so few casualties, you'll end up with a larger army than when you started. It's a great strategy for a domination win. It takes a while to build up a stack of bombard units, but after that you can just keep conquering without slowing down.

All the bombard units upgrade all the way to radar artillery, so there's nothing wrong with building them early and often. Besides, there's nothing special about cannons, they're just a slight upgrade over trebuchets. Artillery is when they become really devastating and absolutely vital for a successfull war.

I always use bombard units when I want a big fight. The only time I don't build them is when I want or am forced into a small war. Then an army of regular units can accomplish my goals with a smaller expenditure of shields. But casualties will be higher.

IMHO, their usefulness is all tied to what you're trying to accomplish. I find that a stack of fast movers (horsemen, knights, etc.) doesn't really need the arty support in taking a city as long as it's smaller than size 6 or so. Above this size, the arty definitely helps keep casualties to a minimum.

Conversely, if I've got a mostly slow mover army (swordsmen, longbows, etc) I almost always have a good contingent of arty along. This way the army can move along together without having to wait on individual components and as most folks have said you can redline enemy units before taking them out.

You also need to keep the terrain you going to be fighting in in mind. Lots of forest and mountains with no roads, forget it as your artillery can't proceed.

Still, there are few wars when artys are'ntat all useful.

Even in a small war, you can minimise casualties with arty - although I understand that you don't want to create any specifically for that war, but I always keep a large stack in reserve.