Civ4 should have relegion.
They could apeear as the years passed by
Religions-
-Nature Cult
-Polytheism
-Atheism
-Budhism
-Jewism
-Catholicism
-Sunni Moslems
-Shiite Moslems
-Orthodoxism
-Lutheranism
-Reformed
-Hinduism
-Confucionism
A City could have a religion you could send missonaries to convert to yours
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If you colonize a new continent they could achive independence.

Yes, there should be religion. Now if you can just tell us all what game effect it should have, we can all be happy (pun intended).

-Nature Cult-The religion that all civs would start
-Polytheism-More culture generated by each city
-Atheism-?
-Budhism-May possible the "possible" new wonder Angor wat
-Jewism-May possible the "possible" new wonder The Temple of Jerusalem
-Catholicism-Religious buildings more cheaper?
MoslemsMay possible the "possible" new wonder "St. Peter's Basillica
-Sunni Moslems-don't know
-Shiite Moslems-don't know
-Orthodoxism-don't know
-Lutheranism-don't know
-Reformed-don't know
-Hinduism-dom't know
-Confucionism-guesswhat? don't know

you can meke suggestions too

I think religions should be a civ quality.Like this, the Chinese would be militaristic,industrious and budhism,something like that

-Nature Cult-The religion that all civs would start
-Polytheism-More culture generated by each city
-Atheism-?
-Budhism-May possible the "possible" new wonder Angor wat
-Jewism-May possible the "possible" new wonder The Temple of Jerusalem
-Catholicism-Religious buildings more cheaper?
MoslemsMay possible the "possible" new wonder "St. Peter's Basillica
-Sunni Moslems-don't know
-Shiite Moslems-don't know
-Orthodoxism-don't know
-Lutheranism-don't know
-Reformed-don't know
-Hinduism-dom't know
-Confucionism-guesswhat? don't know

you can meke suggestions too

The Muslems get St. Peters Basilica, no no no no no no no no on no no on no no no. Give it to Calothicism.

-Nature Cult-The religion that all civs would start.
-Polytheism-More culture generated by each city.
-Atheism-Less culture generated by each city.
-Budhism-Make possible the "possible" new wonder "Angor Wat."
-Jewism-Make possible the "possible" new wonder "The Temple of Jerusalem."
-Catholicism-Make possible the "possible" new wonder "St. Peter's Basillica."
-Muslems-
-Sunni Muslems-
-Shiite Muslems-
-Orthodoxism-
-Lutheranism-
-Reformed-
-Hinduism-
-Confucionism-
-All-Everything possible.


@Douche-no I think it should be a trait like government

Civilisations which share religions should be able to form stronger alliances, more willing to trade and able to form military alliances verses the unbelievers... mmm Crusades. Also people who have a similar religion would be more likely to defect.... I think.

@Sylda-Yes I agree.

Well, Rhialto will probably be very annoyed at me for saying this, but I say NO to specific religions and YES to 'generic' religions and sects. This might sound dull, but once you factor in culturally distinct religious improvements and wonders, you will be able to have religions which look VERY much like their real-world counterparts-heck, I'm even in favour of players being able to NAME the religions they discover for themselves.
Anyway, for more detail on my religion model check this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97371&page=31&pp=20

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97371&page=28&pp=20

There is much more to it than this, of course, but they do provide a useful summary of my preferred method for implementing religion in the game!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Yeah, as AL pointed out, this topic was bashed to death, placed in a tomb and ressurected after three days, bashed to death again, reincarnated as a horse, and then bashed to death again for good measure.

In the end, we seem to have come up with valid models for both a named religions model and a sliders model for religion.

I don’t like the idea because I believe that culture in Civ III also reflects religion. If two countries share the same culture then most likely they also share the same religion. I mean if you play a European country in Civ III it’s easier to negotiate and form alliances with other European countries.

@Bluetooth-No Maya were not the same religion as the Iriquios. Your argument is good untill that point.

Hello,

at least religion is and always was part of Civ. The 'happiness'-building are religious ones, aren't they. And even when a modern city of course dont have temples, so temples still represent the sect phenomena in modern society and still make some people happy. At least this is idea of religions in general. To give some hope and therefore joy to people that are in awe of such things.
What people made out of this basic concept is written on another sheet of paper, but in general religion is represented by the happyness and the culture.
There dont has to be an improved design of religions. The basic concept is the best one, just for its incomplex, but still realistic effects.
Heck the basic concept even represent the different levels of missionaring activities. The Christians that was always a very fanatic and very active Church it represented by the Cathedral with 3 culture points instead of the Poly-god temples, that only have one culture point. That also means that the Christian building is three times more active in expanding the borders of their culture than the former faithes in Bacchus, Zeus and Achilles.
Even the 'gods' of modern times, the Colloseums as a synonyme for entertainment in general are in this way represented quite right.

I just like the basic concept. It gives enough room for interpretation that there is no need, for a more concrete concept. Especially a more concrete that contains advantages and disadvantages of different religions would just irritate some people, because normally people tend to overestimate their own religion and to underestimate other ones.

Civ dont has to be a battlefield of religions.

Samoht Okpoh, I’m aware of that. There are also countries with two or more religions and of course in Asia you find religions like Islam, Buddhism, Judaism and many more that have very little in common. If we look at religion in a historical perspective it’s even more complicated. What I mean is that we don’t need a more detailed model when it comes to religion :jesus: I think it would be to complex.

I don't see any need for it. It would just bring in one extra complication.

how about worshipping money? I want my dollar cult damn nag it! :)

But imagine te great varities that come in to play:

-alliances of same religions

-specification of the use of city improvements or wonders

-you can allow religious freedom or prohibit anything else than what you think is right, hence use the advantages or disadvanteges. Civs with religious freedom are more democratic and more happy, while a gov't-ordered religion makes your people agree to whatever you do in the name of God or such like, but you run the risk of revolts.

-it just adds quite a bit of reality to the whole game, and - as I already stated - it increases the opportunities in the game by a tremendous amount

Religion is a touchy subject; that's all i have to say about that.

Religion is more of a people thing rather than a civilization thing. Except in cases like Henry VIII the state has very little control over what religion it is. Plus many countries have quite a mix of religions.

What about multicultural nations like Canada or others from the past? Many nations have several religions in their borders plus what about deferent denominations? Muslims are not all just one group nor are Christians so how would you take into account the difference between the Sunni and Shiite’s or Catholics and Protestant groups?

I don’t think it can be implemented successfully however it would be fun if it could.

Perhaps as a random thing that occurs over time within cultural groups:
"Our people are becoming Blood cult worshippers and demand more Sacrificial Alters."
"The people have been converted to Catholics by (civ) influence and demand more churches and that you destroy our sacrificial alters."
or "we have many new religions in or borders, we should build more temples."
or maybe even "the people demand that we switch our government to a theocracy to support our strong faith."

OK, though truly not absolutely 'REALISTIC', I refer you to the link I posted above, which shows how religion could be done in a much more REAL fashion than is currently the case, whilst still being quite fun-IMHO ;)! It also allows religion to be somewhat more at 'arms-length' to the state (whilst still retaining the option for State Control) AND allows for multiple 'denominations' within a single nation!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...1&page=31&pp=20


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...1&page=28&pp=20




Yours,
Aussie_Lurker

broken links, aussie

Hmmm, don't understand why, as the original links earlier in the thread are working fine :confused: Anyway, please refer to my earlier post for links to my model ;)!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Who will rid me of this turbulent priest!?

Summarizing another thread,

Religions with traits were disasters, because no religion can be said to generalize into one trait. Which is more warlike? Which is more commercial?

Specific religions were good as long as they did not have traits and simply enabled wonders. This is because it's hard to know if you're the peace loving poor helping Christians or the muslim-hating rule-making Christians. Some people argued buddhism shouldn't be allowed crusades because a buddhist crusade would be impossible, whereas others argued that buddhist should be allowed crusades because it's not fair to say which religions are more warlike than others. In other words, it was a lose lose situation for however you described a religion, so you were better off just enabling a bunch of wonders based on each religious group.

Creating your own religion from a set of sliders worked too, although some really longed for "real" religions. The names could be set to the names of real religions, but the variables were aspects like "polytheist versus monotheist versus dharmic versus animist..." and "fundamentalist versus institutionalized versus personal" -- which would combine aspects of stability, assimilating force, and impact on happiness among other factors. Naturally, the sliders themselves were open to debate.

Modelling an amount of "secularism", where you lean from outlawing religion, to allowing freedom of religion even as it conflicts with your law, to allowing religion only to the extent that it matches your laws, to legislating beliefs from one favored religion, to being an outright theocrat... this had merit, but some people thought it did not go far enough. Really, this would be a slider that controls amounts of happiness, stability, and the impact of foreign nationals.

And there was no way to model the change to seperation between church and state evolving out of enlightenment... nor was there an adequate way to model a religious figure ordering a state figure to do something they don't want to do... nor schisms... not without overhauling the game completely.

That's off the top of my head

@Bluetooth-What I'd like to see is a slider modle for religion.

my idea...
Every civ starts with the basic religeon (whichever you consider basic)
Religion is somewhat tech related.. in the following way
whenever a country discovers monothiesm there is a chance that a religious leader will be born .. as in a new religion is started in your country.. (randomly or determined by real world ties.. which monothiesm starts.. IE christianity or perhaps judaism or islam)
key technologies for this :
Polythiesm : Monothiesm : Scientific Theory *(IE scientology) : etc

also depending on how your govt reacts to your religion and its demands... (more temples etc) religion gives diff benifits.. in time of war such as jihad or crusade...

also as there is the ability for countries to have revolutions.. upon other key techs or events in game.. religions could split into factions.. (example judaism catholicism protatstantism and or sunni / shiit muslum's)

each state should have the option or requirement of state religion
early on its required for the state to set the religion .. tho depending on govt it can choose not to outlaw other religions
later govt.. such as democracy can not set state religion eliminating alot of negative religeous concequences like.. (colony revolts due to religious persecution) but also loosing many govt named religion specific advantages.. such as crusade or jihad etc.

on another front each city should have the top 3 religions in it by % and misc as the 4th.. the insignifigant faction... but those top 3 affect happiness and other factors depending on the govt set religion and relationships between the 3 and.. other nations nearby or cities nearby and thier religions

IE if you convert an enemy city nearby to your religion it is much more likely it will revolt against them .. or join you

also if there is a revolution and your country has split religion.. on religious grp that is the one other than the govt set religion ... and the cities it dominates will revolt and form new country .. or join one of similar religion

your status with a neighboring civ determines how much religious ... flow occurs between .. also the treatment of immigrants does.. IE two nations with diff religion meet.. and ally.. more religious tradeoff between them .. which is distance and tech related.

in further detail on cities with multiple religions, many events should be able to occur... such as if catholicism or a christion religion in the middle/dark ages tech.. is dominant in city with non christian religion.. witch burnings may occur..in minor or mass.. hangings etc.. such that u loose population but city becomes much more unified in religion.. etc.

some fun events like that....and of course diff religions makeing diff govt demands

also when you build colinist.. in a city with a persicuted minority religion.. there is greater likelyhood the minority will fill majority of colinist ..

enjoy the idea ;;

also .. people should not be able to directly control religion i dislike sliders etc.. it should be something you have deal with . not control.. your the monarch or despot or president.. or czar.. not god or jesus ...

I will agree with you that direct manipulation of religion should be very difficult, but I think sliders would be a great way of determining the extent to which you, the State, manipulate peoples FEELINGS about religion in order to keep people in line. After all, the whole 'Divine Right of Kings' was nothing more than a play on the peoples religious beliefs and fears-in order to keep the people obediant (in game terms, increasing peoples 'religiosity' increases the effectiviness of relgious buildings and specialists at producing happiness). Of course, making religion TOO prominant would also entail certain risks, like poor research rates, increased risks of sectarianism and schisms, and making your 'religious class' too powerful generally!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

I cannot see how they will do religion without offending at least someone.

To many religions in the world to blanket them under even ten different types.

Interesting to see what they do.

I just hope they do not have Arabs/Persians/Asians building cathedrals! (again)

It's quite silly.

:)