Welcome to the Trade Ministry
UNDER NEW MANGEMENT

MINISTER: I am Classical_Hero.
Deputy: WeaponX.

Here is our new building.
http://www.rit.edu/~jsi2389/misc/003%20World%20Trade%20Center.jpg

The goals for this ministry.

We want to make our nation the best nation that we can make it. We want it to be a luxurious nation were everyone is happy with the job we are doing. We want to be rich and will use what means (legal and moral) to get towards that goal.

Trading Partners
America - 30gpt for 1 turns, 32 gpt for 11 turns, ROP and MPP
Aztecs - ROP for 11 turns, silks for 21gpt, MPP for 15 turns
Babylon - None
China - 42gpt for 15 turns, Ivory and ROP for Gems and ROP
France - MPP and 57gpt, gens for 14gpt
Iroquois - none
Rome - none
Russia - none we are at war
Zululand - 14gpt and peace for peace for 1 turns

Gifts
America - none
Aztecs - none
Babylon - Gems for 11 turns
China - none
France - none
Iroquois - none
Rome - none
Russia - Huntington Beach :mad:
Zululand - none

These will be continually updated.

You may consider the new ministry of trade offically opened. :hammer:

A Brief History of your Trade Minister, Classical_Hero.

This is the first time I have been a minister in any DemoGames because this is the first time I have been in a DemoGame. I joined this game for fun and to improve my game play. In the first two terms of this game was just an ordinary citizen. I was active as a citizen, doing my best to make my voice heard. I came with the goal of being a deputy, so i could help run this game. That goal was granted to me when I became Saam's deputy of trade. I had a good time helping him run this office effectively. I did all his dirty work, not like he needed the help, with his interns and all that. But still I was faithful in supplying anything he needed, such as, if he was hungry, I would get him something he wanted to eat, If he was hungry, I would get him some food. After doing such a good job, I thought I was going to be up for a promotion in this ministry, but unfortunately I got kicked out of office. I was very confused about why the people did this, but I got back on with being just a citizen. And that leaves me in the situation where the people have voted me as Minister of Trade. I will not let you down.

A Brief History of your Trade Deputy, WeaponX.


A brief History of Trade

Previous terms:
Term IV.
Term III.

First discussion is up. Trade Ministry: NEWS FLASH! The French, the Chinese and the Russians have Communism

Just dropping in to clean out my office and congratulate you two.

Congrats to both, it was a close race, and I am sorry some so-called experts crossfired you, you both deserved better. I will of course cooperate as best and respectfully as I can, now that I channel my darker energies elsewhere.

The science department determines the following four technologies as "dangerous" to trade:

Motorized Transportation
*Scientific Method
**Electronics
***Replaceable Parts

* Untill the completion of ToE
** Untill the completion of the Hoover Dam
*** If we plan on creating another war, I would not suggest giving our enemies infantry. If however we decide on being peaceful for a long time, then this is a very high-valued technology, and trading it is a must.

The science department determines the following four technologies as "dangerous" to trade:

Motorized Transportation
*Scientific Method
**Electronics
***Replaceable Parts

* Untill the completion of ToE
** Untill the completion of the Hoover Dam
*** If we plan on creating another war, I would not suggest giving our enemies infantry. If however we decide on being peaceful for a long time, then this is a very high-valued technology, and trading it is a must.

What about trading the two wonder techs shortly before we complete the wonders, such as the turn before? Does the AI devalue a wonder-tech if that wonder has already been built?

-- Ravensfire

What about trading the two wonder techs shortly before we complete the wonders, such as the turn before? Does the AI devalue a wonder-tech if that wonder has already been built?

-- Ravensfire

The AI still values the tech the same, the only thing that effects the value is how many other civs have researched it. However, if we are one or two turns away from completing a wonder, and we find a good trade. By all means, make the trade.

Well, we are in fact 2 turns away from completing ToE. I see nothing wrong with trading Scientific Method.

2 turns away? I sure do hope we're going up the Hoover path, and not wasting research for 2 turns....

hello honoured trade delegates,
Congrats on your election and such formailitys.
The evil zulu and the ugly roman (very VERY ugly) have recently signed a trade embargo against. i want to retaliate with our embargo. I think this might be your area though. i have started a discussion about it.

Thanks
Don Nobodyisialani
FAmily

Well, we are in fact 2 turns away from completing ToE. I see nothing wrong with trading Scientific Method.

I've yet to check up on the new "developments" from yesturdays turnchat.

First trade poll of this term is up. The poll is up. Workers unite. Are we comrades?

hello honoured trade delegates,
Congrats on your election and such formailitys.
The evil zulu and the ugly roman (very VERY ugly) have recently signed a trade embargo against. i want to retaliate with our embargo. I think this might be your area though. i have started a discussion about it.

Thanks
Don Nobodyisialani
FAmily
It is your work to get the discusion done. All we need to do is the implementation of your work.

Minister of Trade,

I have reviewed your orders, and have made these comparisions:

Russian Trades:
266*20, 112 = 5432

273*20 = 5460 (Yes, the have that much GPT. And MORE.)

Industrialization is worth EXACTLY 5460 to Russia.

Commie, 94*20, 98 = Commie + 1978 = 3482+1978

Therefore, Communism is worth 3482 to Russia.

I think we can get 3486 Gold's worth for Indy 3rd, but not for Indy 4th.

America yields us only 604 (30*20 + 4) at any time, so it's safe for 4th (or even as far as 6th...)

President's Recommended Order: Russia, France, America

And people worry about military upgrades.... :D Amazing...

Minister of Trade,

I have reviewed your orders, and have made these comparisions:

Russian Trades:
266*20, 112 = 5432

273*20 = 5460 (Yes, the have that much GPT. And MORE.)

Industrialization is worth EXACTLY 5460 to Russia.

Commie, 94*20, 98 = Commie + 1978 = 3482+1978

Therefore, Communism is worth 3482 to Russia.

I think we can get 3486 Gold's worth for Indy 3rd, but not for Indy 4th.

America yields us only 604 (30*20 + 4) at any time, so it's safe for 4th (or even as far as 6th...)

President's Recommended Order: Russia, France, America
Honourable President, Well thought out counter-thought. You have convinced me that it is a good thing to do you order of trade.

Regards, Classical_Hero, Honourable trade Minister.

And people worry about military upgrades.... :D Amazing...
Don't worry about us, we'll bring as much Gold as the nation needs.

Unfortunately because of the bitter attacks on Chieftess and Longasc, I have a need for a new deputy. Here is a reply to a PM that I recently recieved from Longasc. Can you please reply to me so that i know where you stand.

Hi Classical Hero,

I joined the turnchat, read the forum, got a very negative impression of many users involved and

- no wonder -
I am no longer interested in the demogame at all. Some other users who joined or wanted to join, too.

I wish you more fun.

Also consider yourselves lucky that this minister has decided to stay on with his ministry.

That is unfortunate, c_h. :(

However, one must remember one thing. Politics isn't supposed to be fun. We are trying to run a mock government here. And when my political interests are threatened by a bunch of popular new jacks that show up at election time and exercise block voting, I will shed light on it.

One look at the Citizen Registry will also show that several others were drafted to join right around election time. If these were the others Longasc was speaking of, then it would have tipped the scales in an unfair manner. While I have apologized to your former deputy several times for my stance on this, that stance will not change.

Best of luck in your role here, classical_hero, and my encouragement to stay on board here in Trade. One, because you have earned the position based on your efforts over the past several months. And, two because resigning on principle isn't the best move for re-election. I can vouch for that. ;)

Well, I sure do hope everyone here is happy that they just scared away 2 new citizens to the demogame. Longasc and Moss.

Well, I sure do hope everyone here is happy that they just scared away 2 new citizens to the demogame. Longasc and Moss.

Funny we should post at the same time on this matter, CT. Care to join us in the running of a mock government, or would you just like to make this a fun free-for-all? Since June, it has started to turn into one. :(

It is also not our fault that these two decided not to stay. This game is supposed to be about politics. Unfortunately they weren't warned of this before they were drafted at election time.

Funny we should post at the same time on this matter, CT. Care to join us in the running of a mock government, or would you just like to make this a fun free-for-all? Since June, it has started to turn into one. :(
i have to agree with dz,
even though you say we scared 2 ppl away,
because of this fun free for all, many people have lost interest(including me) in the demogame, which isnt good for participation either

If I recall correctly, we were going into our 3rd month of arguing over the ruleset. Even Thunderfall told me he thought that was too long. Rik also thought it was too long, and we decided to start the game.

Now, let's get back to the game....

Conflict is part of human nature, and it will always be friction. CIV3 is a strategy political and civilization building game, as well as a wargame, and nothing is more contentious issue like this. But I think politics is THE FUN, as optimizing buildqueues, tileusage etc etc alone is not as fun. Even Firaxis referred to corruption, worker usage, pollution removal and other things as "unfun" things they wanted to remove in Civ4, for more politics, civics and in-Civ multiplayer team cooperation like this. I am sick and tired of Civ-Assist and other CIV-stat cruncher programs. I am not a mathematician or an economist, I am a military
and business trained person that prefer the state-building part of the civgame, and here in the DG. However, I think that all the throwing of dirt on each other
during the election was unworthy, but I can see the frustration with the perceived bloc-voting of chatroom recruits, something I observed with the Samurai Citizen Group, dragging in new citizens to vote their bloc in chatrooms, as well as another citizen group I saw mobilized mass votes.

For me, it is not about being a DG veteran, but about being a Japanatica veteran. Whenever a new game starts, people should start with clean sheets, and forget all grudges, but within a DG, the lie of the land, resources, city placement, laws, wars and so on, leave political preferences, which makes the game deep. So I am against DG-veteran activity as such, but understands and supports some historicity in a particular DG as it adds what we really like here, personality, interesting and fun posts, entertaining exchanges and fascinating crisis handling situations as well as collision of plan and action. I made doctrines so we had a plan we could collide game reality with, and it has worked in my opinion, as warmongers can discuss strategy without actually going to war, whereas when war starts, we have a good grasp of our goals, and omptimize our units to get there.

Without military organizations and doctrines, we would have lost even more players of the warmongers that likes to plan strategies.

ct i wasnt referring to the 3 monthes of time b4, but the direction this game is taking

I'm glad you're staying too, CH. I would volunteer to be your Deputy, but Trade was never a strong point in my games, so you can easily find someone better than me to assist you.

I'm sure the people that left would have stayed had they had more goals in the game than walking away with an election.

If I recall correctly, we were going into our 3rd month of arguing over the ruleset. Even Thunderfall told me he thought that was too long. Rik also thought it was too long, and we decided to start the game.

Now, let's get back to the game....

Though that was a big part of it, it is certainly not what I was referring to specifically. You just seem not to care about the law, that's all. And you are able to distance yourself from any accountability for your actions.

Are we still arguing over there? It was blatantly obvious that there was some sort of block voting going on, otherwise how would any newcomers who hadn't participated in any discussions whatsoever even be able to get that many votes? It would be like someone dropping in one month before a presidential election and win 50% of the votes, that just doesn't happen unless some outside forces intervene. Longasc and Moss did not deserve to win either, Nobody and classical_hero have actually participated. It may sound unfair, but you must remember that Longasc (I think it was, or Moss) said he had been in the DG forums for a month, a month which no opinions, ideas, or questions were introduced by him.

Well, I sure do hope everyone here is happy that they just scared away 2 new citizens to the demogame. Longasc and Moss.

You put Longasc in the position to be attacked. He helped by saying nothing. Moss insulted many citizens, calling people "whiners" and accusing them of having non-existent sex lives. It is unfortunate that he confused politics with flame wars.

Classical_Hero, I'm sorry that we've had to carry this argument in here, but as long as Cheiftess indirectly accuses me of 'scaring away' and 'discouraging' new players, I'll have to speak up. I am a new player.

Well, I am a new player too, and I am probably one of the ones having to take a good share of flames. However, this is not a game for the faint-hearted, and I accept getting my verbal battering, as long as I am allowed to pay attention back. What I dislike is whimpering and hypocrysi, as in the last election, where I was factual and collected, the other party could go on undisturbed with his "material", but when I hit back after a long delay of patience with irony and humor, which actually had some teeth, his hidden and visible circle of compassionate associate friends surfaced and raised hell, asking for me to apologize after me responding to a long and continuous flaming campaign.


What I dislike is double standards. There is no carte blanche for citizens to insult and degrade other players, simply because they are in an office. And I expect no one to stand up for such a person calling for a unilateral apology from some misguided Amnesty International thinking, that is plain pathetic.
If you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

Ok, let's stop arguing about who insulted whom and who started what. Perhaps I should make a new rule -- if anyone flames, trolls, berates, insults, etc, anyone who just joined the game and decided to run for an office or makes some suggestion, will be banned. Let's play nice. This warning is not directed at any particular person, but for everyone.

Look at the name of this thread and look at what we're doing here, the irony! :lol:

Look at the name of this thread and look at what we're doing here, the irony! :lol:
What have I done to deserve this?

A new discussion is up. It is found here.

We have three trades this turn. Here they are.
Trade one.
Trade two.
Trade three.

Minister CH,

Could you consider the possibility of giving TBD to another civilization to avoid a war? Likely candidates are Rome, Iroquois, Babylon, and Russia.

Russia is about to attack. Do you have any trade plans for the impending budget deficit?

Russia is about to attack. Do you have any trade plans for the impending budget deficit?
Russia are our best customers so i am not to pleased with them attacking us. Maybe we could offer them some coal to placate them.

Minister CH,

Could you consider the possibility of giving TBD to another civilization to avoid a war? Likely candidates are Rome, Iroquois, Babylon, and Russia.
That is not our jurisdiction. Please redirect your question to the FAmily.

That is not our jurisdiction. Please redirect your question to the FAmily.

It's a gray area. Since technically it is sort of a trade... sort of...

Copied from the Foreign Aid Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106330)

Since the Trade with the Aztecs for Theory of Gravity has popular support in the Early Polls, I would like to make this Proposal:

Proposed: A gift of 500 Gold to Babylon with a rider that we immediately sell Theory of Gravity to Babylon for at least 250 gold.

Why don't we then give them 250g and ToG instead? this is in the [thread=106330]FCC[thread] thread also.

Why don't we then give them 250g and ToG instead? this is in the [thread=106330]FCC[thread] thread also.

Whichever deal is fine by me, seeing how they're not so advanced anything we give will benefit them.

*walks in slowly trying to block nose from discusting smell of the place* hi ummm.... can i speak to the manger of this ummm..... "trade" ministry.

Ah i have some discussions up about giving silks and gems, as gifts and since this is your neck of the woods. i will poll soon, i just was making sure that if the people give the gifts the OK will you guys be happy. and who writes it in there instructions me or you.

thanks

Nobody
FAmily

p.s.
trade stinks, and you caused the russian debarcle :)

ok i will put the instuctions in my instuctions.

Honorable Minister,
I would like to request that you investigate the possible trades for Free Artistry and Espionage. I will start a citizen's discussion thread as well, but I cannot run vanilla so I can't get the likely trades.

THanks

Another discussion is up. Lets have a blast. Atomic Theory trades and other things.

Another discussion is up and it is about gifts. It can be found here.

Since I was so vocal in chastizing MSAV for poll conduct (having other department responsibilities wrapped into the MSAV poll), I must also protest the current set of trade polls. Although having links to discussion threads provides good background material, it is traditional to include the actual trade which is being voted on in the poll itself. Please at least put in the time to give a short version of each trade in the 1st post of the poll.

Since I was so vocal in chastizing MSAV for poll conduct (having other department responsibilities wrapped into the MSAV poll), I must also protest the current set of trade polls. Although having links to discussion threads provides good background material, it is traditional to include the actual trade which is being voted on in the poll itself. Please at least put in the time to give a short version of each trade in the 1st post of the poll.
What is the point of having a discussion if all I need to do is put up a poll with the relevant trading options?

What is the point of having a discussion if all I need to do is put up a poll with the relevant trading options?
the discussions might change some peoples opinion on the matter, polls should always include what they are about, maybe I should start 'Polling 101'

ch, when a voter looks at the trades you've listed as options in your poll, they might be inspired to "check the facts" by looking at the discussion. Their thinking might be that a lesser trade than the obvious killer trade would be more advantageous to Japanatica. Having the Trades listed (with a small description) plus a link to the factual discussion is a sign of a GOOD poll. Having only one or the other is somewhere between mediocre and bad. ;)