OK, here is the general idea. Forget about a pack of scenarios but think about a medieval modpack (limited to Europe and Middle-East).

This would be made of two parts :
- one to be downloaded by players to play different medieval scenarios later on.
- the other made up of help stuff for the modders (ex : texts, list of units in units 32.pcx, ...).

The advantage : players would have to download the mod only once (with some patch from time to time to include new units, artwork, etc...) and be able to play different scenarios with that mod. The scenario creators would only have to upload their biq and text files and not much more when they release a scenario so scenarios would be easier to upload, easier to download and would not waste CFC server space by having the same unit in 3-4 different scenarios.
For modders it could provide a general framework of units, improvements, tech icons, a customized units32.pcx, customized improvements.pcx as well as texts pre-written, etc... and all stuff already checked (no need to go through all INI files again).

Shortcomings : the modpack would be large (at the moment I have 45 MB with "medieval" units (and I might have forgotten a few) only, without resources, improvements,...). And regular patches would be needed (new units, gfx,...) which means a bit of work for players to download and install the stuff properly (vs the everything in one package everyone likes !).
Besides for it to work and be useful, scenario-makers should use this system and if possible, make their already done scenarios compatible with it.
This would be only useable with C3C as it allows the renaming of units within the Pediaicons text file.

Some people were interested when I proposed the first idea of a medieval scenario modpack so I hope they will follow the idea here. Now if people (and especially players) think it is worth it I will actually organize/centralize the modpack create a dedicated medieval units32.pcx file,... and centralize units and gfx already done and that will be done.

Would the modpock also constitute a standalone modpack, or only provide the foundation for the scenarios?

Anyway, it sound like it could be a good idea.

It occurs to me that MEM could be used as a "foundation" for medieval scens. Unfortunately, the revised (embryodead) version doesn't seem to be scheduled for release anytime soon.

I think it's a good idea. But it might be hard to do, for at least two reasons -

(1) It would have to become a standard. That is, it would have to be generally accepted as THE medieval modpack for it to be worthwhile. Lots of people would need to download it and be aware of it. And for that to happen it would probably be necessary to have lots of scenarios that use it - but for *that* to happen, it would already need to be pretty standard. So it might take a while.

(2) The thing about scenarios is that they change rules, units, tech trees and so on. These tend to be tailored specifically for the scenario. So I don't know to what extent scenario-makers would want to use the rules, units, techs etc of this medieval mod rather than create their own. On the other hand, of course, the existence of such a mod would make it easy for relatively inexperienced scenario makers to create scenarios without getting their hands too dirty, so it could be valuable from that point of view.

Just my thoughts. I don't know if those are very serious objections. I'm sure it would be a worthwhile project - especially if, as TLC says, it could be a standalone mod as well as a scenario basis.

I think it would be a great idea. I think having a medieval mod that includes a random map game would be awesome. Then, the tech tree could move slowly and only include ancient and medieval techs and units. I think I'd enjoy that much more than the epic game with its recycling stations at what not. I'm all for it. I would be very selective about the custom units, leaderheads, and other graphics that you would put in though. Only the best! (So, don't use my early units like the European Swordsman/Spearman; I don't like them. ;))

@plotinus. I think that LouLong addressed your secdond point in the opening post, if I understand correctly. The scenerio builder would be able to change the rules and things. The advantage here is that he doesn't have to create a download that included all the custom units and other graphics that he would want to use, just those things that he's changed from the modpack. Anyone who had the modpack already could download just the new scenerio's rules.biq and some text files to play the scenerio.

Again, I think this sounds great. Good luck, and I hope everyone backs this project.

(So, don't use my early units like the European Swordsman/Spearman; I don't like them.

Don't listen to him! I like those units!

The point you make is of course right - scenario makers could change what they like, but it gives a good basis on which to start.

I like your photos, by the way. Very stylish.

Yes, that's an excellent idea. I've been thinking we needed something very like that for some time: canonical sets of units+leaderheads+extras that would make a platform that modders could assume was present. Then, the modder just says: "this scenario requires that the x modpack be installed." It would be like R&R's requirement that PTW extras be installed.

@utah: I like those units - don't sell your work short :)

I like your photos, by the way. Very stylish.

Ah . . . well thank you very much. It's most appreciated. :D

I don't know what LouLong was planning on using as a starting point from, but I've thought that the C3C medieval conquest was nice. That already has some more era and regional appropriate luxuries and resources. Well, anyway, that's just a suggestion.

Ah . . . well thank you very much. It's most appreciated. :D

I don't know what LouLong was planning on using as a starting point from, but I've thought that the C3C medieval conquest was nice. That already has some more era and regional appropriate luxuries and resources. Well, anyway, that's just a suggestion.

I liked that scenario too. My only beef with it was the problem I have with unmodded civ: the randomness of the battles. Whole armies of mine would be laid to waste against inferior enemy forces because of randomness. Sure, it worked in my favor sometimes, but mostly it was just frustrating.

BTW, I'm the female dog that voted no. :D
Not out of malice, of course, but out of pessimism, and a feel that modders would want to mod ini's and such in the pack... If you look at WH2 for example (which would in theory benefit from such a pack), embryodead has modded a lot of the units and ini's, adjusting speeds and sounds and such, so I fear it may be more work than joy.
Besides, it could be hell keeping everything up to date.

Well, at the very least, for LouLong, it would make life easier to have a Medieval modpack and then have his scenarios simply conform to that graphic set. Whether or not anybody else follows it is irrelevant. It'd just be the same as if he hadn't make the pack at all. It'd be shear idiocy though to make three different scenarios and upload all of those graphics for each... I say more power to him.

I did an ancient mod and I would have loved to have had a pre-existing mod with all of the ancient units already in it.

To be useful this would have to be full of units and improvements and techs.

@ dugfromthearth : an ancient modpack would sure be nice but my "plate is full" so someone else should do it.

@ mrtn : I understand. That is a risk I am willing to take. Anyway I need help and for instance if someone could find nice sounds for units from the beginning, that would help. Renaming units is not necessary at all since it can be done easily in the text files.

@Utahjazz : these units will be in. :) They are good enough alright (you really are too modest) and fill in a gap anyway. I did not plan it to incorporates a biq rule but the idea is that everyone could release scenario/mod biq files using the elements of the modpack. Your answer to Plotinus is exactly what I have in mind.

@IbnSina : exactly ! And I like your expression "cannonical set", it describes exactly the idea.

@ Plotinus : yep, it is always difficult to establish a standard. But I do not want it to be my standard but a CFCers standard. If enough people join in the project I am pretty sure modders would quickly realize the utility of the modpack (they would only need to release biq and biq files and if there is new art needed, it would be incorporated in a patch to the modpack).
On the other hand modders could change anything they want from tech-tree, rule, unit names in-game, .... the modpack would not propose so mcuh a directive framework as a wide range of possibilities.
Of course if one player is only interested in 1 medieval scenario he will have to download lots of useless stuff. But I don't see why he would limit himself to 1 scenario only when he can download others very quickly (a biq and text files...).

On the other hand there could be a second part of the modpack for scenario-makers only with for instance PediaIcons and civilopedia texts that scenario-makers could cut and paste or just use as bases. It would gather requests as well so the choice is more and more complete.

@ The Last Conformist : no standalone but a basis.
MEM could have, partly. I even discussed the idea with Yoda for a while but albeit large it did not include everything.

@ Dom Pedro II: exactly. I know I will use it. If only 2 other people use it it will have been worth it. But then I guess others would start using it too.

Help needed : first thing is actualy to gather lots of things related to Middle-Ages in Europe and Middle-East from the late Roman Empire to gunpowder units (tech icons, units, improvements,...), check them (size, transparency, lisibility,...), list them...
If someone would volunteer for different fields...
Then it would ne nice to have someone gather text descriptions.... to make a text resources file (ex: no scenario-maker needs to reinvent the text for scholasticism, belfry, madrasa or Longbow but he can use those already done then in case modify them for his own needs. i must say I know someone who would be IMHO perfect for the job.
I have already started on units and am checking their INIs etc... but someone good with sounds could probably help me a lot for the sounds.
Same time as the units I am working on a "medieval" units32.pcx. Same will be needed for medieval improvements.

@Loulong : You know what I use to do. If you need my help, just shout it loud ;)

...
I have already started on units and am checking their INIs etc... but someone good with sounds could probably help me a lot for the sounds.
Same time as the units I am working on a "medieval" units32.pcx. Same will be needed for medieval improvements.
I recommend you "steal" as much as possible from WH mod, embryodead has spent ages modifying unit speeds and sounds. :)

Are you going to be stricly historical, or include hypothetical unites (like the Egyptian knights) or even fantasy ones (goblins and so on)?

I can help. If you like, I could have a go at lists of units or some aspect of that chore. If you see a need for an install program or other C++ associated with the project, I could do that.

Are you going to be stricly historical, or include hypothetical unites (like the Egyptian knights) or even fantasy ones (goblins and so on)?

I don't think that having hypothetical units is such a bad thing, but please . . . no fantasy stuff! Hmm . . . I'm getting pretty attached to something that isn't my project and won't be around for a little while.

I don't know much about military milarkies but I do know about social/philosophical/religious history of the Middle Ages. If you need ideas for more "theoretical" techs, Wonders and suchlike or some information on ideas you already have then send me a message by all means. I might not know, but I'd know where to find out.

I think it's a good idea, but we don't know if it works or not until we have tried. I can help with making some scens if you want.