I apologize if this has already been addressed somewhere, but how will patches be handled with the GOTM? Depending on the changes made, it could give an advantage to those who played it with one version or another. I bring this up since it looks like we are due for one this weekend. :)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10937

celeron450

According to what the patch will provide, maybe decisions will have to be made.

Let see tomorow what the patch will contains.

LeSphinx

I will be applying the patch no matter what.I will not toil with this buggy game any longer than I have to.
If some things aren't fixed,I probably won't finish gotm.

gotm is not a competition.It is a fun comparison game.Thats it.


I was just wonderin....will a pre patch save work on a post patch exe?

I say we decide what to do when the patch is out. I'd like you to test it, Smash, since you find it more important to have the patch than to play the GOTM. Just update and try to load your savegame. If it works and the rules are commonly unchanged, then there's no problem. Otherwise I think you'll have to wait until this month is over.

well..its not more important but if there is going to be "fairly significant changes" then we need to move to it quickly.Consider it a major rules change in sport.Like changing soccer to 3 periods instead of 2 halfs.
I gotta a feeling that with "fairly significant changes" pre patch saves won't work anyway so #2 will have to be finshed without patch for me.

actually patch or no is not the problem in my game.Its the tediousness of the game stage I have reached.I don't think a patch will change that too much.

Gee, Smash, I could use a little tedium in my GOTM. Has to be better than waiting around for the Romans to take my cities...

I think the 'let's wait and see what the patch does' line is best right now.

After that we have to wait a bit to see if the patch really works without breaking something else.:crazyeyes

I think the effect the patch has on palace building is significant enough to warrant a decision. Being able to store up shields in multiple cities and wait for tech advances provides non patch players an advantage that would likely skew results.

Indeed.

I find the changes too significant to allow people to play the GOTM with the patch. Please install the patch after you finished your GOTM.

Or don't play the GOTM. :p

Originally posted by Matrix
Indeed.

I find the changes too significant to allow people to play the GOTM with the patch. Please install the patch after you finished your GOTM.

Or don't play the GOTM. :p

hmm.... this is tough. The patch will be released this Friday, the 7th. It's understandable that everyone will rush to download and install the patch as soon as it's released because the patch fixed so many problems and make the game more enjoyable. If players have to choose between the patch OR the GOTM, they probably will choose the patch because they have waited so long for it.

I think a better solution is to not count this GOTM in the global ranking or HOF... We can also ask players to indicate whether they played the game with the patch or not when they submit their games. IF the patch doesn't make the game alot easier, we could count this GOTM. :)

But then it must be stated very clearly that people must say if they used the patch. And most people will probably have played the GOTM partly with and partly without the patch. So comparing will be difficult as well... http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/undecided.gif

But given the fact that corruption will be reduced, I am afraid it does give an advantage. So either we stick to my plan, or the game won't be counted in the Hall Of Fame and Global Ranking.

Your decision, chief. ;)

I second Thunderfall. I have purposely waited to continue my GOTM. I stopped around 2000BC, to see what the patch would have. After seeing it, I must agree, I would rather get the patch, than play a GOTM without.

It is all in fun anyway.

I have no problem with leaving this one out of the Ranking, same goes for the first too.

I hope to finish GOTM before the patch comes out 8(

Eliezar

it don't matter to me either way.I think i am done with this game :(...I just can't get into it.I have tryed to like this game....I just can't.Sorry.

Many people have already finished this GOTM game without the patch, and many people have spent hours but not finished.

Some people may choose to play the whole game with the patch.

I suggest we compare and rank both versions of submitted games, just have players clearly indicate what version they played with and rank games based on versions.

We dont want to waste a good game(and hours of playing) on this. So lets compare the games!

But definitely NO MIXED versions!

I will submmit the results from my unpatched game.

Airness

OUCH!!! so you say you wont count this GOTM for HOF and global ranking?? damn!

although i can understand the reasons, its VERY sad for me because i just finished the GOTM II and had a really good score...so if theres any way to count this GOTM I would be very happy indeed!

cheers...

Why not just start the Global Ranking and HOF with GOTM 3. Leave out both GOTM 1 and GOTM 2.

I'm not sure that banning games that are not wholly pre-patch or post-patch is a good idea. The patch will also have a bearing on the succession games in progress. If I'm required to hold off on installing the patch till I complete my GOTM then what happens if my succession game partners are patched?:crazyeyes

Why not simply start a new gotm? We aren't even a week into the month yet.

Originally posted by Rhandom
Why not simply start a new gotm? We aren't even a week into the month yet.

Good idea! We could have a pre-patch GOTM and a post-patch GOtM. All wee have to do is save our current BIC file before we download the patch and then be sure to play the correct GOtM with the currect BIC file. Excellent! :goodjob:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/panelec/flag-usa.gif

That's not really a bad idea when you think about it. We could play the Greeks on monarch again but a different map. It would be interesting to see how much the scores change from the pre-patch to post-patch games.

would you be hoping that Matrix would adminster 3 gotms this month?..thats asking a little too much.2 gotms(civ2 + 3) is alot to handle as is.

I say we just beta period this one.On this large map,there is a good chance many games will go to modern age.This is where the air superiority thing could be a problem.

I can't see all waiting to install the patch.In fact there may be a series of patches.What then?

Originally posted by Smash
would you be hoping that Matrix would adminster 3 gotms this month?..thats asking a little too much.2 gotms(civ2 + 3) is alot to handle as is.

I say we just beta period this one.On this large map,there is a good chance many games will go to modern age.This is where the air superiority thing could be a problem.

I can't see all waiting to install the patch.In fact there may be a series of patches.What then?

I already thought about that Smash ;) Matrix doesn't have too administer an additional GOtM. There are ways this could be worked out. For example, allowing people to submit whichever game they want, but only one game. Or maybe he could get some extra help from the CivFanatics pool to help him with reviewing games, and then he can make the final decision. It's up to Matrix of course, but these are a couple of suggestions, and I am sure we can work it out. As the saying goes, where there is a will, there is a way. :D

edit: On the other hand, if we decide to forgo this months GotM because of these patch issues that is ok by me too. (and you thought I was going to be hard to get along with! ) ;)

No, I don't expect Matrix to administer three games a month or even three games just one month. That's entirely up to Matrix. I have no idea how much work is needed to put out what Matrix does and even less of an idea how much time and effort he wants to put into any of this. (Of course if he'd spend less time worrying about airbases in Civ II GOTMs maybe...)

We can always do what we did last month: make an unofficial GOTM type of game to bat around. We could specify that it be played with the patch installed. Maybe this time take it a little more seriously and try to collect some actual scores to post just for comparison.

There may be more patches to come but do you think any will have as big an impact as the first will - and do you think there will be anymore this month?

edit: I don't mind excluding this GOTM either. As I said in an earlier post maybe it is best not to include the first TWO GOTMs.

actually after going through all the long, grueling turns for the military victory I would hope this would count 8(

Eliezar

Why cant Matrix set up a new GOTM for the month, with all the same settings except different map.

The guys that have already completed the GOTM can then either keep their GOTM entry or chose to do the new one instead, if the patch makes changes that are going to increase scoring, then no one is really disadvantaged, as everyone will have an opportunity to complete the new GOTM.

People who chose to keep their old GOTM, then that is their choice, afterall it is just fun. So Matrix wont have any more entries to accept, I guess as for cheating, the people that do both GOTM and send in their best score, well that is no different than people that play the same GOTM 5 times to get it right. :(

Hmm... I think I come back to my earlier statement that the rules are too different. That's because I don't like the other options. Some people already finished this GOTM! And I don't want to injure the people who end up 1st, 2nd and 3rd this time by not giving them a medal. So I think the best option is to just count it. Download the patch, play the game (further) and I'll simply make a ranking.

Matrix, I support this decision wholeheartedly. :love:

It really could be worse. Think about it: While the patch does make it easier to deal with corruption (and thus maintain a large empire), it also takes some very powerful strategies out of the game (wonder-grabbing thru palace-prebuilding, massive forest-replanting, hamstring AI players by trading them techs for all their income). While the former is an advantage for people playing the GOTM with the patch installed, the latter is a clear disadvantage, and I'm not at all sure which of both is bigger.

My guess is that the patch will make the game even more challenging, because the AI will profit from the corruption reduction as well as the player (so that will not necessarily make the game easier), while the patch removes the aforementioned strategies that gave you an advantage against the AI (so that will definitely make the game harder).

All in all: I don't see a clear advantage for the patch users, so accepting both patched and pre-patched submissions is fine with me. :)

Since it is only the 7th, why don't we start a new GOTM, with a different map but keep the same civ. Remember many people still haven't started the GOTM yet. We have plenty of time to play it before January.

So, I can download the patch and finish the GOTM 2 ?

LeSphinx

Originally posted by LeSphinx
So, I can download the patch and finish the GOTM 2 ?

LeSphinx


I am doing that myself. I am glad we didn't force people to play the GOTM with the patch. :) Some people don't use the patch even though it's out due to compatibility problems and bugs in the patch. :rolleyes:

Can I ask that whatever you / we / they decide, that a note on the conclusion is put on the GOTM page?

P.S. - This could be a precident-setting issue, if other patches come out (although I expect that the major gameplay / balance issues have probably all been addressed).