I'm hoping the above means the Conquering Spaniards. So we will shoot for a conquest victory. But my practical knowledge of Spanish is rather limited considering how much Spanish I have taken, so the title could be a little off.

Level = Deity
Map Size = Standard
Map Type = Archipelago, 70%
Climate = Random
Sedentary barbarians

We'll go without armies or ground or air artillery, so this should be quite challenging. Since we are seafaring, we will use our navy to bombard, and this time around we will actually need our navy. As long as we get a decent start, though, it should be a winnable game.

Roster:
ThERat
grs
Bede
dmanakho
bed_head7

reporting for duty :)

I must say, I like the promptness with which you join. It took a couple days to get anyone in my first game. Two immediate signups for my third and fourth is very reassuring.

I'd like to make it three. 02 was hard fought and this should be even more fun. Going to miss those tank armies, though.

Yeah, that will be tough. Hopefully they won't be as necessary, since in the late game we won't need to grab quite as much land.

I'd like to play in this game.

Welcome aboard, grs. I'll start on the search for a decent starting position.

and may i also be part of the team...
:)

I guess we can get this started. Still searching for a start, though.

I guess we can get this started. Still searching for a start, though.

Well don't forget a tribe moves 2 ignoring movement costs. Don't be afraid to wander for a few turns to find good food.

This is standard conquests. The other one is my RaR game, which still hasn't filled. But I'll keep that in mind for that game.

LK seems to be in RaR mode :lol:

Going through starts, can't get a river, and I am ready to take the first river start we get. Then, we get river, and a cow. We have a winner (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_4000BC_cowriver.SAV)!

Start:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_4000BC.jpg

And mini-map:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_4000BC_minimap.jpg

We are on a BG right now, so definitely scout with worker to the cow. Depending on what we see, I think we might want to move two tiles SW, so we can save the BG. I just don't like throwing them away.

Nice one...
Should we move 1N across the river to claim all BGs and cow after expansion...
Worker to stay in place to improve BG right away.

As an alternative we could go north, if 2 SW is not a good place. But I would prefer 2 SW too.

I think we might want to move two tiles SW, so we can save the BG. I just don't like throwing them away.

Even better Idea.. We will have at least 4BGs and a Cow
within city radius

One thing to consider - length of the river.
If we move north we might be able to place 2 cities along the river.
if we move 2SW we may end up on the middle of the river and no more cities can be placed next to it

But if we move north, we won't be able to immediately work the cow, which can make a big difference. If we move two SW, we can still place a city one tile north of the starting position.

Interesting discussion about start location. Personally I would go 1 tile north to have capital a little more centered in the land mass. Or possibly 1 tile east if going for a tighter build.

1 tile E is would lose the coastal bonus and ability to build harbor, but still leave coastal tiles, which would be a shame. I think I am going to go ahead and play the first 20 right now.

Hmm, Diety conquest with no artillery and no armies. Sounds tough, I will follow this one with interest. Good luck team!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_3000BC.SAV

4000 BC (0) - Worker move makes the choice of where to move quite easy.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_4000BC_worker.jpg

3900 BC (2) - I am really wishing that I had used another map. Three cows, 7 BG, and only two coastal tiles. I could make a great run at 20k with this. Writing on max, for a change. I think we can get it quite a bit faster than 50 turns with our expansion capabilities.

3250 BC (17) - With my max research experiment, we are somewhat limited. We meet Russia, and the best we can do is Pottery and 10g for Alphabet. But now I can switch to granary.

Final notes - Granary next turn, then we should be able to shoot straight into 4 turn settlers, I think. I have forgotten how soon the worker will finish the mine, I just know that the worker is a little behind, and one big negative is no forest tiles in the starting 21. We may be able to pull warrior-settler factory, I forgot to check.

I am not terribly happy with my turns, and I am a bit unsure about my max research move. At this point, we have taken one turn off research. Once we settle a few more spots, though, it should have a more noticeable impact, but I am still unsure whether it was worth it. If we pull of republic slingshot, I guess it will.

My weak opening play is why I had placed myself at the end of the roster, and I don't know why I decided to take it.

Dot map, second city will go to cow I think and then third will go to the river spot. All the cows should eventually be irrigated, so other cities can steal them here and there.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_3000BC.jpg

Roster:
ThERat <- up
grs <- on deck
Bede
dmanakho
bed_head7

Bigfoot, you aren't going to come back for seconds?

I don't have much experience playing at Diety, and I don't want to hurt the team's prospects. I do reasonably well at DG though. You can slot me in if you don't mind having an 'almost virgin' Diety player on board, its your call.

Wow!!!
That is quite the starting position.... :drool:

I do not think your opening play is weak. The four turn settler factory is perfectly online and should be started immediately after the granary. You took the risk of not building a warrior and so we should stay that way and build garrision from our second city onwards. Russia is quite close so we should settle in their direction first - taking the cow as you supposed.

Going for writing then either poly (if we have a chance to get it first) or lit as an alternative is a good idea. Do we aim for the Great Library or not?

Holy Montfort, Batman!

That's even better than the Sid Vicious start.

@bedhead, your instincts were sound to make the run at writing. And we may want to pop out another worker and a dingy before going into settler mode.

got it, since on leave will play this soon. interesting. I guess we will grow very fast, so popping a settler after granary to keep lux at bay, then maybe a curragh to explore. since russia is close we need warriors to deter them as well

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_2550BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
everything is ok

IT granary -> settler

1.
found we have a curragh already :D , try to get settler in 4 with maybe twice 7spt and then twice 8spt

2.
curragh meets Ottoman
they are up 3 techs but down 2 and they have masonry that Russia does not have, trading time
we get masonry, BW and 10g for alphabet and pottery
hmm masonry won't get us mysticism from Russia, only WC, I better wait

4. we will get settler next turn, but Madrid grows only in 2
we need to irrigate the 2nd cow to have a 4/4 settler factory

5. settler -> curragh
going for the cow as suggested
Russia goes from doubtful to insulted for our masonry deal. does it mean she is researching that? we get WC for masonry, better now than never

IT Russian spear appears, I better change to warrior though wasting shields

7. warrior -> settler
Ottoman knows mysticism as well

IT Russian spear goes towards the hut, hope she won't pop barbs

8. found Barcelona, working the cow, builds warrior
I see a yellow border north, we must send 2nd curragh there, change build to curragh. research goes down to 16turns at -1gpt

9 Russia knows the wheel now, did they pop it form that hut?
Madrid curragh -> settler

10. we should be able to meet the yellow AI next turn. the settler factory is unbalanced now. due to my warrior/curragh build. settler in 2, then we should aim for 5->7 pop and 4/4
we should build another worker as well. went for curragh since I saw that yellow border and contacts are crucial

Russia will be the foe to watch out for, we need to settle towards them

the situation
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed2550.jpg

Looks good. Sorry I forgot to mention curragh build. It was the first thing I did. I took a screenshot of it and its progress, I though, but I can't seem to find it now. Sorry about having to change to warrior. I generally play farmer's gambit, which can be dangerous sometimes, and it forced you waste shields.

I am not quite sure why you needed to irrigate the second cow now, but I'll check it out later.

grs is up.

I will stop the irrigation of the 2nd cow. Madrid can easily do settler/warrior in 4. There is the governor on in Barcelona!

Got it.

I will stop the irrigation of the 2nd cow. Madrid can easily do settler/warrior in 4. There is the governor on in Barcelona! if we irrigate that 2nd cow we can go for a 4 turn settler without even a warrior, or am I wrong? gov is on? I did not realize that since the cow was worked. I think bed games always have governor as default :lol:

if we irrigate that 2nd cow we can go for a 4 turn settler without even a warrior, or am I wrong? Question is do you rather have

a) 1 warrior AND 1 settler after 4 turns
b) 1 settler, at least 8 wasted shields and 4 wasted food?

at deity I rather let other cities build the warriors and get settlers out as fast as possible. but, of course we can change that and not irrigate that cow. it's a team decision. I just wanted to clarify why I did that.
I wasted 6s when I had to build that warrior, but when the spear showed up without any defence, I rather waste a few shields.

I figured warrior/settler wouldn't be a problem with tiles completely improved, I just never checked. I don't know how that governor gets on. I have never used a governor in my civ playing life, and I am not sure how they get on and off.

The idea behind a warrior/settler factory is that the position is so shield rich, 10s can be had in one turn and a total of 30s in three turns, while maintaining two turn growth. Since we cannot, even with four cows, get growth in one turn, building settlers any faster than every four turns depletes the population. The warrior/settler maintains the size of the factory while also putting those extra shields to use. Even if only regular warriors (unfortunately) that is still an escort for our settler and an MP. For someone like me, (ie, will abuse the farmer's gambit and eventually be attacked, with no army to fight back) warrior/settler is the greatest of all things possible in civ.

I forgot to respond to Bigfoot earlier. Unless someone on the team objects, I would be fine with you joining, Bigfoot. You seem to me a very attentive player, which is generally the most important thing. If you are ever unsure about the next course of action, you can draw on the experience of other players, as this is an SG. Plus, this game does not seem as daunting with the start we have here. Early on, with no bombardment capabilities, we will just need to be careful about choosing our oppenents.

ok, I went at great lengths through it myself and I agree, I was wrong. next player better stop irrigating the cow and work towards the second city. sorry for that move :thumbdown:

I don't know how I got that idea, good to learn, lucky the worker only irrigated for 1 turn now, maybe change to road in order not to waste more turns

Uh? Is it clear now we get the settler in 4 anyways? The warrior is just a bonus. @TheRat: if you want, I can further show how this will look.

Pre: Stop irrigation and start to mine the cow. Fix governor settings: emphasise prod. "yes", everything else to "no" for all cities. If you want me to explain why, I can will happily do so.

2510BC: Meet Egypt. They are up iron working, but miss alphabet, pottery and warrior code. I do not trade yet, since I expect them to have a neighbour close.

IBT: Madrid settler - settler.

2470BC: Lux down - research up.

IBT: Barcelona warrior - worker.

2430BC - 2350BC: Nothing.

IBT: Madrid settler - settler.

2270BC: --

IBT: Barcelona worker - warrior.

2230BC: Spot a Russia settler and settle down to block him.

IBT: --

2190BC: Egypt now has the wheel too. Trade alphabet and warrior code for the wheel, iron working and 35gold. Sell iron working to Ottomans for mysticism and 21gold. We have horses and iron.

IBT: Ottomans learn horseback riding.

2150BC: We find furs.

I would settle on the furs (coastal city and no road for the lux needed) and ne, ne, ne, n of Madrid. I also would be carefull not to found a city that increases corruption in Barcelona - it could have a very good shot at The Great Library and if we want it we should start the prebuild immediately.

Don't hit me too hard for the empty city with a Russian spear next to it; I talked to him and he assured me he is just exploring ;)

The last mine we need for Madrid completes in 4 so the next cycle can be warrior+settler in 4, while gaining +5 fpt on all 4 turns.

Nice job getting the settler/warrior set up, grs. Bede is up

Got it.

Every town at least on the ring with Barcelona.

You can have a 4 turn warrior/settler factory with both cows irrigated too.. and allow another city to use one of the 2 cows two of the four turns..

turn one (at size 4 plus 6 food in bin):
build warrior
work irrigated cow and 3 mined BG
(another city use 2nd cow)
leave a mined BG open to be picked up on growth.
IBT: mined BG is picked up on growth and warrior complete

turn two (size 5 plus 0 food):
build settler
work irrigated cow and 4 mined BG - no need to MM.. same as govenor put citizens on.
(another city use 2nd irrigated cow)

turn three (size 5 plus 4 food):
work both irrigated cow and 3 mined BG
leave a mined BG open to be picked up on growth.

IBT: govenor picks up mined BG

turn four (size 6 plus 0 food):
work both irrigated cows and 4 mined BG - no need to MM.. same as govenor put citizens on.

IBT: settler completes.. and actually waste 2 shields.

back to turn one again.. used tiles should already be as you want them.. all you have to do is put the extra cow into use by other city for next 2 turns

Nice catch. I don't know what the worker situation is right now, though, so perhaps irrigating might be more trouble than it is worth.

2150BC
Russian buld a town that abuts the furs site so I drop the settler where he stands, founding Toledo in 2110. Then start the Pyramids in Barcelona.

In 1990 found Salamanca on the peninsula

In 1910 found Murcia next to the spices.

Egypt also starts the Pyramids.

In 1950 learn Writing and start the rush toward Philosophy.

In 1870 meet the Aztecs in the far NW Monte knows how ro ride horses but not how to write his letters, so we exchange knowledge straight up. Russia learns Writing.

In 1830 open an embassy in Moscow to provide intel on who knows who. Moscow is pop 5, 9spt, 90% science and will finish the Oracle in 4 turns. She knows only the Spanish so the duopoly on Writing is safe for now.

In 1790 meet the Mongols on the same island next to the Aztecs. He lacks Alphabet and Mysticism and has nothing to offer in trade.

In 1750 found Valencia.

Barcelona is building the Pyramids as the Great Lib pre-build as it looks like we are on track to win the Philosphy to Literature race. There is a warrior moving to Barcelona to do MP duty. And the workers are moving in towards Barcelona to get the grasslands mined.

The Realm

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bh04_1750.jpg

Hmm, we seem to be running out of room in the west.

dmanakho is up.

Hmm, we seem to be running out of room in the west.

dmanakho is up.

I got it and i am also up in another game.
So if i do not play today then tomorrow for sure.

Okay, no rush. If it takes a few days to play, that is fine. Better that you play attentively later than somewhat rushed earlier.

Out of 3 games I am up in I ended up playing this one today ;)



Pre-turn:
Everything looks great but luck of warriors worries me.
Checked the startup post and i am happy to see barbarians are sedentary.

T1. 1725BC. Toledo worker->warrior. We actually need 2 warriors in Barsolona for MP purposes to move lux slider down and get Philo one turn faster. Movin warrior from Seville to Barselona.

IBT. Russians completed Oracle.

T2. 1700BC. Madrid settler->warrior. I see some trading opportunities and sell our tech around. We have 87 in treasure after it's done. Osmans have mathematics on us.
Ah, Sciense slider up to 80%. Philo in 6turns.

T3. 1675BC. I think i found a nice location for another city 4tiles SE from Madrid.

T4. 1650BC. Curragh Exploration continues

T5. 1625BC. I have to hire tax man in Seville to avoid rioting. Workers moves on top of furs for hook up

T6. 1600BC. Madrid settler->warrior. Murcia worker->warrior. Zaragoza is founded.

IBT. Ottomans completed Pyramids

T7. 1575BC Swithching Barselona to palace. Madrid warrior->settler. Sci. slider down to 50% Philo in 2 turns. Worker freed up so i am sending him to help his comrade to hook us up some spices.

T8. 1550BC. Sevillia warrior-warrior and i can fire taxman.

T9. 1525BC. Furs hooked. Philo comes and we get literature as free tech. Gr.Lib inBarselona in 46. Science down to 10%. we have nice +21GPT income. Scouting Warrior spots dark red border across the water on eastern side of our island.

T10. 1500BC. Madrid settler->warrior. Worker moves on top of spices. We need to join couple of workers to Batselona. It has 4 workers nearby so 2 of them definetely can join. I haven't moved both settlers. Next player to decide what to do about them.


Screenie:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04-1500BC.JPG

Save:

one settler should go to river next to fish and 2 BG's. should we start on a rax and get some horses out, Russia will be our target I guess, since they box us in nicely soon. Do they have iron or horses?

I'll let you know about Russia. I don't know for sure, but maybe my turn and yours can be prep, and by 1000 BC we'll be ready to take it to Russia.

We need to join couple of workers to Batselona. It has 4 workers nearby so 2 of them definetely can join. I think you are right we should join 2 asap - more will not be possible anyways.

I agree with the fish/bg town. The other setter could settle a bit further to the ne maybe.

I do not see us boxed in. We did not even have our island fully explored. We should do that first and settle all of it, before we attack anyone. I am not sure an attack on Russia would gain us much yet.

Yes, of course, if there is much more land we will stay in expansion mode. For some reason, I assumed that there wasn't too much left to see, meaning there is room for maybe five or six more towns, so settlement would be over after the next 20 turns. I haven't looked at the save yet, though, so I shouldn't have jumped to that conclusion, and perhaps the minimap will not indicate whether the continent ends soon. But I should be able to let you all know soon enough.

I didn't mean to prepare for an attack, just get some defence, once Russia runs out of space, they are usually pretty aggressive. we should explore our east completely so we know where to settle

Lurker's comment: Actually the thread title means:

"The conquered spanish" :lol: :lol:

Lurker's comment: Actually the thread title means:

"The conquered spanish" :lol: :lol:

We are the laughing stock for the entire spanish speaking community :lol:

Ah well, I figured I had screwed it up. I was debating between this and conquistando, and that is probably wrong as well.

1500 BC (0) - In our situation, I would say either max research or nothing. Min research seems just a waste of gold at this point. I am curious why the mined cow by Madrid is not roaded. Perhaps it was necessary to move on to set up the warrior/settler factory?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_1250BC.SAV

1475 BC (1) - Writing to Egypt for Math and 8g.

1450-1375 BC (2-5) - Settled a couple towns, joined only one worker to Barcelona and waited two turns for it to grow naturally.

1275 BC (9) - Meet the Byzantines. They don't have Pottery yet, but they do have Code of Laws and 52g, which I take using Horseback Riding and Mathematics as bait. I send CoL to the Ottomans for Map Making and 86g.

IT - Ottomans demand Philosophy. Yeah, right. They walk away with their tail between their legs.

Final notes - I chopped a forest with plans to irrigate, because I thought it was a lake down there, not ocean. Oops. There are two settlers in the east. The northern one with warrior escort is intended to settle where it stands. The other one can settle anywhere in that middle area. I think we ought to stick two cities in the southern area, one two S of Madrid and another to claim the furs. We can build barracks there, then alternate between swords and combat settlers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_1250BCa.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_1250BCb.jpg

checked a page back and this is the
Roster:
ThERat <- up
grs <- on deck
Bede
dmanakho
bed_head7

got it

Nice copying and pasting.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_1000BC.SAV)

Pre-turn
Barcelona can't grow and will be stuck at 20 turns for GLib
research is off, set ot a min run on Republic, still one unmet Civ
a check sows Russians have 12 cities, we have 10

1. found Satander, whip temple in Seville

2. found Asturias in aggresive spot

IT oh no, Russians start GLib :eek:

3. establish embassy with Ottoman, Great Wall in 8
check out Moscow, GLib in 80, I am more afraid of cascades

4. 5.6.

7. Madrid can't build warrior any longer, set it to rax
found Jaen in an awful spot, but want to fill the space

8.

9. Ottomans know literature now as well

IT Ottoman start GLib :eek: :eek:


10. Madrid is at 13spt and 7 pop, we should try to get it up to 15spt or build a settler
there are a few sword builds, we can always change them.
I didn't trade at all, I hope we will succeed with Glib, Ottoman are up construction, just as at the beginning of my turns.
we have a settler in the east to claim one last spot
and there is an empty island northeast that could be reached via Byz land

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed41000.jpg

If there are no wonders cascading in next 10 turns GLib should be ours.
But if someone builds something then we are as good as dead meat. :)

the good thing is (I realized thinking about it), that Russians and Ottoman started to build GLib already, so they won't switch. the rest is still an ignorant lot and don't know literature. I couldn't check on the Ottoman built, since that city is still in the fog, but Moskow was a 1 pop city at that moment, a perfect place for a Glib :smoke: shows you the flaws of AI.

So, I hope we can bag it in. :lol:

that Russians and Ottoman started to build GLib already, so they won't switch.
They will switch town if they are building another wonder and there is a cascade

They will switch town if they are building another wonder and there is a cascade ok, I didn't know that, I thought they would switch the obsolete build to another wonder they have not built yet. is there a priority setting which wonder they would abandon? let's say there is a cascade, but they are building 2 wonders, which would they then switch to? is that known?

Perhaps it was necessary to move on to set up the warrior/settler factory? Yes, that was the reason. If I had roaded it, we would have lost one more cycle in the warrior/settler setup. I would be surprised if it is still unroaded if I get it back :)

But if someone builds something then we are as good as dead meat. Don't think it will be that fatal on an archipelago. We got a decent chunk of land.

ok, I didn't know that, I thought they would switch the obsolete build to another wonder they have not built yet. is there a priority setting which wonder they would abandon? let's say there is a cascade, but they are building 2 wonders, which would they then switch to? is that known? The AI suprisingly knows how to shuffle buildings in a cascade very well. Not that it always choses the best location, but it cerainly reacts in a cascade and usually assigns the more productive city (i.e. the city which will complete the wonder faster) to the non-obsolete wonder. We will see.

Got it.

Don't think it will be that fatal on an archipelago. We got a decent chunk of land.


You didn't really believe i applied dead meat phraze to the end result of the game, did you? ;)
I only meant Gr.Lib.

Pre: We have a specialist in Madrid?! Wake workers from their jobs to get Madrid to 15spt and start a temple in Madrid. Cancel the road in the forest, first chop then road and irrigate. We need the shields. Switch Toledo, Jaen, Zaragoza and Asturias to temples.

IBT: --

975BC: Time for embassies, we still have to meet the Celts.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Aztechs.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Byzantines.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Egypt.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mongols2.jpg

Not many contacts for the AI.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/who_knows_who.jpg

IBT: Aztechs declare on Mongols. Ottomans complete The Great Wall. Egypt completes the SoZ.

950BC: Logrono founded.

IBT: Our curragh sinks. No idea why we tried to cross there.

925BC: Whip the temple in Pamplona. Lux to 30% for one turn. Fire spec. in Madrid, now producing 15spt.

IBT: Egypt learns Polytheism.

900BC: Lux to 20%.

IBT: Celts complete The Great Lighthouse. Four builds will cascade next turn, but still only Russia and the Ottomans know Literature.

875BC: Our harbour in Seville completed and gives us a trade route to Russia, Mongols and Aztechs. Mongols and Aztechs have excess wines, trade furs (to block Russia from trading them) + 2gpt to Mobgols for wines. Lux to zero.

IBT: Ottomans switch theif Great Library city to Iznik, which we can't see and is their city number 4, seems not too problematic for us. Besides only Egypt building the ToA all wonder cascades ended here.

850BC: --

IBT: Aztechs want MA vs. Mongols and ROP. We don't.

825BC: Rush the temple in Asturias by disbanding warrios (the Russians have been faster though).

IBT: --

800BC: The Great Library is due in 2. I am quite sure we will get it.

Afterwords:

I preferred to build horses above swords. I usually do, but in this case I do so even more, since we will get chivalry (very probably) quite fast from the AI and can save all our cash for knight upgrades.
The warrior ne of Jaen should chop its temple.
We have a fantastic front with the Russians. Their 3 remote cities are cut off from their lands and should be easy to take and the mountain ridge small mountain ridge to the west seems easy to defend.
I would upgrade the curragh in Seville and get contacts with the celts soon. We already know 2 of their cities, but have no contact yet.
Yes, I am really not working the cow next to Madrid. In two turns it will grow and can work is again, while staying at 15spt. I mis-moved the workers, I intended them to land on the southern cow to road it, sorry.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_0800BC.zip)

IBT: Celts complete The Great Library.

You scare me when you make statements like this :)

Ups...it actually was the Lighthouse, I will correct that.

Unless I counted wrong grs, you only played 8 turns. Bede can take 12 if he likes, or you can play 2 more. Still, nice turns. We seem to be off to a great start.

I will add the 2 turns. I wondered why the GL did not complete in mine. Posting soon. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/tgl.jpg

Not much else.

The 2 courts are thought as pre-builds for aqueduct and market (you can take a guess which one goes where). I did not trade excess techs for cash. I am not even sure we should trade anythig to the AI, not to speed their research.

The 750BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_0750BC.zip)

I did not trade excess techs for cash. I am not even sure we should trade anythig to the AI, not to speed their research.



Agree, they won't give us much cash anyways and we would be better off if they stay in dark ages for as much as possible.

Pre: We have a specialist in Madrid?! don't worry, only the last turn after finishing the rax, I played around with tiles since we could not make 15spt, so I put in a scientist and get 10spt, enough for 2 turn spear. else we would have wasted shields at 13spt.

I did not trade excess techs for cash. that's what I did as well. was too worried to speed them up. At the moment they don't even know each other, let's keep them dumb for a while and slow them down.

what is our next goal?

Push Cathy into the sea perhaps?

Start using any technological or militaristic advantage we have. Russians didn't have iron, so we can take it to them with horses and do pretty well. It is not like we can build catapults, so no reason to bother with swords.

Got it.

Nice position we got here, gents. Cathy goes for a dunkin, and I don't mean donut!

Does she know how to swim yet?

Be Gentle Brother Bede...
She could be your grandma after all...
Just put her on galley and let her sail alone :)

The Realm

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bh04_550.jpg

No new wars or new rumours of war. Aztecs and Mongols are still going at it.

Built six horsemen and distributed them to the borders. Finished the "Camino Real" so everyplace is connected. Built some barracks on the borders.

The courthouse builds came to naught as Construction came too late and no one has learned Currency yet.

Theo made a bee-line to Republic but has no contacts for trading. Sold her Pottery so she wouldn't waste time on it in hopes she would hustle to Mathematics, then Currency, but she is probably hot footing it to Map Making.

We have over 1400g in the bank and 32g net income. We might consider researching to Currency on our own at no harm to the Treasury. That is the last tech needed for the Middle Ages transition.

Learned Construction and Polytheism from Russia and Ottomans who are assuming the leadership role.

Did a little recon into Russia and along rhe coasts. There is a galley on the way to the Celtic lands and another one almost finished in Pampalona for a cruise along the Byzantine coast. The Celts just built a village south of the Mongol borders on the island north of Byzantium.

ThERat
grs
Bede
dmanakho <- up
bed_head7 <- on deck

Me, up again :)
This game sure has a quick turn around.
I have it

I need a quick answer....
I am playing my turns...
We had trade available with Osmans spices for wine... I didn' twant to do because if we declare on russia trade route will be broken and our rep will ruin..
But, It is turn 3 and Osmans demand Spices... If i reject they will likely to declare and we have scouting galley inside their border.. Will this ruin our reputation or not?
I don't want to give them spices mostly for the reason i described in previous sentense.

If i reject they will likely to declare and we have scouting galley inside their border..
If YOU declare with with troops inside a border your RoP rep is trashed. If the AI declares is doesn't matter where your troops are.

No, they are declaring, we are a-ok, as far as I know. If it turns out that our rep is ruined (which you should be able to test easily enough), oh well, it happens. Just an extra hurdle.

If YOU declare with with troops inside a border your RoP rep is trashed. If the AI declares is doesn't matter where your troops are.

As I thought, but rep is complicated enough in some situations that I am rarely willing to make any statement with certainty.

As I thought, but rep is complicated enough in some situations that I am rarely willing to make any statement with certainty.
To me the question was about the effect of the ship inside the border.
Are you thinking about trading rep?

Oh, oops, I misread dmanakho's question.

Does Ottoman cut your trade route to Mongolia?You traded with them in previous post.

If the AI declares is doesn't matter where your troops are.
That answers my question - our rep is not going to be trushed.

Does Ottoman cut your trade route to Mongolia?You traded with them in previous post.
Thank you, thank you, thank yoU!!!!!!!

If we are at war with Ottomans it will indeed cut trade route to Mongolia!!!!
I will have to give them what they want if we don't want to ruin our rep...
Gosh... Such a simple step became so complicated...
I will continue later tonight or most likely tomorrow...
My wife thinks i played too much for tonight.

EDIT: Ok, i will play tomorrow for sure... Stupid moron i am.... almost ruined our rep.... i will give osmans what they want this time. There is another trade route eastbound direction. There are few black tiles have to be uncovered 1st so we don't have to wait 20 turns before we can declare on Russians.

Here we go:

Pre-turn: Clear
I don't want to self research currency. Deity AIs will do it before us no matter how hard we try... Better save some money.

IBT. Aztecs and Mongols signed peace

T1. 530BC. Seville barracks->court. Salamanca horse->horse. Pamplona galley->lib. Santander worker->court.
Lux. exchange trade is available with ottomans. I am not going to do that because if we start war with Russia
The trade route will be broken and our rep will go down to drain.

T2. 510BC Valencia horse->horse. Vitoria sword->horse.

T3. 490BC Worker actions. Ottomans have republic. I will revolt next turn

IBT. Ottomans demand spices... Here I had to make one day pause to figure out consequences.
To save our reputation I have to bow and give him what he wants.

T4. 470BC we learn Republic from Ottomans and Byzantium and I revolt. MM Madrid to avoid starvation.

T5. 450BC - Anarchy.

T6. 430BC - We are officially a republic. MM cities. Rush aqueduct in Barcelona; Court in Seville;
Barracks in Zaragoza and Murcia. Library in Asturias.

T7. 410BC - working on army and infrastructure.

T8. 390BC - same as above

T9. 370BC - - same as above

T10. 350BC. Galley unlocked eastbound passage to Osman and Mongols. Next player can safely start war with Russia.
There are Celtic cities on island north from us. We need to send a galley there to meet them officially.
We have 20 horses in our army. I disbanded few regular warriors to save on unit support. Didn't do any trades with AIs to keep tech pace slow.
Hopefully next player to take it on Russia.
Nothing has changed on the map, so no screenie is attached.

Hmm, I get to fight. This should be fun.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_150BC.SAV

290 BC (3) - Goad the Russians into declaring war on us. Take Orenburg without losses. Attack on Khabarovsk doesn't go as well, and we fail to take the city. Vladivostok then captured without losses. And war happiness allows us to drop lux to 10%.

IT - Russians lose a couple units against horses fortified on hills. Our people celebrate this victory with an addition to our palace.

270 BC (4) - Healing, moving.

IT - Apparently, the Russians now have horses. I guess I forgot to check before declaring, but last I had see they didn't. So we lose a couple horsies, though they were fortified on hills.

250 BC (5) - Capture Khabarovsk this turn. Kill two spears in Krasnoyarsk with no losses and a couple retreats, but the city holds.

230 BC (6) - At Rostov, four Russian spears fall but the city holds, with a redlined spearman.

210 BC (7) - Though a spear was pop rushed in Rostov, our horsemen managed to take it.

190 BC (8) - As tends to happen with me, I lost track towards the end. But mostly just border skirmishing, which I don't do particularly well with (as screenshot below implies). I just can't keep myself from chasing after redlined horsemen, but then of course ours are attacked. So more or less, we have been trading units. For that reason, I left most everything in the area active, so the next player can make the decision on what to do. But I was thinking moving along the south. First turn, fortify the stack on that mine just inside Russian borders. Then move to the forest, then third turn take Smolensk. Either fortifying or occupying the forest will at least give some chance to win. From then, capturing Yekaterinburg will be much easier.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_150BC.jpg

As the mini map shows, those brown areas in our blue have disappeared. Spain is growing!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bed04_150BC_mini.jpg

got it, looks like we beat Russians up a bit. will have a look at it. should we continue the war until Russians are no more, or at least not any longer on our Island? or get peace and some towns?

If we can produce enough troopers to keep the pressure on I would say fight them 'till they are down and out. Oscillating wars at Deity are a regal PITA 'cause the second and third time you go after them they just have a ton o' troops to claw through. Deity AI can build a lot of 20-30 shield units in 20 turns.....

I guess I never said anything about this, but I was thinking we keep at it either until they are gone or until they are no longer of any concern. I prefer the first, because there is a slight flip risk in some cities, although some of the coastal ones we captured would actually flip to the Byzantines. And, as this is Conquest, elimination will eventually be necessary.

Pre-turn
MM a bit, we have 20 horses and unit cost is taking 50gpt away, better get more cities fast. move horse on forest next to Yekaterinburg

IT one of the wounded horses gets defeated by a russian horse
we learn monarchy (not that we need it). Byz finishes ToA

1. 130BCWW hits hard, need to increase lux to 30%
attack Yekatarineburg (its on a hill), lose 1 horse but capture it and get 6 slaves. lose another horse defeating horse

IT St Petersburg finishes Hanging Gardens
Ottoman start SunTzu, they are running away

2. 110BC
attack and take Smolensk

IT Aztecs try their luck and demand spices, but they bugger off
Russia lands an archer in our hinterland

3. 90BC
attack Novogorod (on a hill), lose 2 horses but defeat 2 spears and 1 archer and take town

4. 70BC
everyone knows currency now, we will get it next turn

IT trade spices and furs +3gpt for incense with Byz, lose an elite horse to a counter
learn currency, feudalism and engineering

5. 50BCour troops are now in front of Moskow and St. Petersburg

IT Russian archer retreats a horse

6. 30BC
attack St. Petersburg. lose 1 horse, elite defeats last spear and
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed430.jpg
we take Hanging Gardens. what to do with the leader? Form an empty army or rush FP? send leader back and form army, maybe we get another leader that we can put into FP
start to attack Moskow, defeat 4 spears and a horse shows up, but no units left to attack

IT lose a horse on counter

7. 10BCattack again, defeat 1 spear and 2 archers and Moskow and The Oracle are ours

IT Russians land spear and horse in front of Moskow

8. 10ADspear at Moskow is demonic, retreats 3 horses before it dies

9. 30ADhave to up lux to 30% again due to WW
we have galleys coming to the front to transfer units over

IT Ottoman declare on celts

10.50AD
Byz know montheism as well, we will get that next turn. madrid is now at 20spt.
attack Yakuts, lose 2 horse, defeat 2 spears but fail to take it
fortified the horses in front of town.
due to the high flip risk, did not put many units into Russian towns. there is a galley with 2 horses. i guess it is better to wait
until we have conquered the 2 remaining towns
unfortunately there is one Russian town way up north on another island

the front
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed450.jpg

Superb job...
Good call on army...
Let's make an MDI army out of it... much more powerfull than horses and knights are still some time away...
We just need to build some swords for now..
How about we start Leo's prebuild in Madrid????

oh no, no I remember the variant. I am such a dumbhead :suicide: :wallbash:
we aren't allowed to use armies :nono:
well, sorry team to waste that leader, at least there isn't a single unit inside yet. In the heat of the turns, i forgot about our rules, no armies and no arty. just disband it then and remember to not use leaders for armies.

oh no, no I remember the variant. I am such a dumbhead :suicide: :wallbash:
we aren't allowed to use armies :nono:
well, sorry team to waste that leader, at least there isn't a single unit inside yet. In the heat of the turns, i forgot about our rules, no armies and no arty. just disband it then and remember to not use leaders for armies.

Oh, my... Guess what i forgot about this variant rule myself...
Lets just pretend it never happened. :mischief:

Lets just pretend it never happened :lol: :lol:
guess what? there is some consolation, I just tested it, disbanding the army gives 100 shields. so please disband in our FP town then

guess what? there is some consolation, I just tested it, disbanding the army gives 100 shields. so please disband in our FP town then That is a good alternative I would say. It's mine IIRC. I will have a look at it this evening.

guess what? there is some consolation, I just tested it, disbanding the army gives 100 shields. so please disband in our FP town then
You won't get any shields as wonders (small & large) ignore disbanded units and forest chops.

You won't get any shields as wonders (small & large) ignore disbanded units and forest chops. well how about a nice sweet market then (cost 100s) :(

As pointed out already, disbanding for a small wonder does not work, though they can be rushed by military leaders last time I checked. It is unfortunate that it was made into an army instead of used to rush the FP, but by no means a critical error. I am not at all surprised that that mistake was made, and I wouldn't even be all that surprised if it happened again.

I will finish my turns today.

Pre: Move troops to quell resisters.

IBT: We learn monotheism from the GL.

70D: Jakutsk taken.

90AD: Trade furs to the Ottomans for spices. Remember the army and disband it for a market.

110AD: Attack Yaroslavl, but can't take it.

130AD: Yaroslavl taken.

150AD: We learn Invention from the GL.

170AD: Load 4 galleys to land on the Russian isle.

190AD: Unload 7 horses and a pike.

210AD: Take Bryansk. Aztech and Ottomans sign MA vs Celts.

230AD: Take Kazan.

250AD: Take Tver.

Russia is down to one city. We can either make peace and let them live on their remote isle or ship some horses over to hopefully get another leader. I did not start the FP anywhere yet. We should quell resistance and resettler their lands - we have a nice chunk and our core is quite good.

I started infra - we will need libraries, or do we go with zero research? I usually prefer self research, but we should decide that now.

We can trade luxes with the Celts.
Disbanding our warriors for improvements seems good too.

Please disband the treb I build and the cat I upgraded :(

Got it.

Agree with grs as I prefer self-research for the knowledge we need to become or remain militarily dominant until we reach the last tech needed to accomplish our goal. I really hate feeding cash and luxuries into the hands of Deity AI's as the risk of creating a runaway is just too high. Also libraries are a good culture source (same cost as a cathedral, same culture, lower maintenance).

It will be a long trip to the Russian capitol.....I think I'd rather use the forces we have on the Celts, the Byzantines, or the Ottomans or the Egyptians. The Celts at Lindum and Ratae will get us a foothold on the other big landmass while taking on the Byzantines will clear a potential future problem, though from the looks of the map either will cost us a trade route with the Mongols...

The Ottomans or Egypt look like the best opportunity for the next round of warfare, which would be well past my turn set anyway but chasing after the last Russian city will put us out of position for the Otttomans andleave s with a lot of potentially obsoletet forces a long way from home if the target is Egypt.....

So, build libraries at home, starve out the Russian natives, and build a Forbidden Palace, but where? Pampalona? as it is our highest commerce non capitol town and will benefit nicely from the waste reduction with the FP and with some forests on the tundra has decent shield potential, or Barcelona?

Lots of questions but no answers from me. Any ideas, gents?

I would like us to attack Ottoman, they can become so poweful and lead the powerbar already. but we better wait for knights to do that job. Maybe Egypt as short term target?
Byz would have dromons and that would sure kick their GA.

I also agree on self research and combined culture bonus. We were actually very lucky to beat Russia so easily with just horses.

The Russian Adventure succeeded because they had no resources for warfare.

Looking more closely at the map I don't like Egypt as a target until Astronomy. Getting there is no problem but getting a cultural and resource connection will be.

I like the idea of self research. It looks like we will trigger anyone's Golden Age except the Ottomans, unless the Celts do not have iron, in which case we are safe there too. Meaning that the closest, smallest, likeliest to fold quickly before Golden Age has any effect civ ought to be our target. And I think that means the Byzantines.

I am always terrible with FP, but either choice you suggested sounds good to me Bede.

Thoughts:

If we want to continue warring we need to be aware that most of our neighbours are much stronger than Russia was - simply ressource wise. As an alternative we could build infra.

Ottomans: We will face swords and pikes (muskets?), but they miss horses and by taking Denizli, we could deny horses to them for at least some more time.

Byzantines: Have iron and horses and are tech leaders together with the Ottomans. Own The Great Wall and we are not allowed to use artillery - not a very attractive target.

Celts: We might feed a bit on them and join the frey, should not be too hard, since they are hit from all sides, but we do not gain much from it either.

Egypt: Looks like a fantastic target. No resources, a very short front line. I would really consider them our primary target. I agree with Bede, it will be some time to connect their lands, but we need to take and resettle or starve anyways. I would just like us to claim their land and resources. Cleo only has spears and archers and that will not change anytime soon. This really screams "hit me"!

FP: If we handbuild it, I agree with Pamplona. If we keep warring, I would fish for a leader and rush it in Moscow.

Egypt it shall be as sson as things calm down in the provinces.

Pampalona for the FP.

Libraries.

Thanks all.

Oops, I guess I should have checked the save. I mixed up the state of resources of Egypt and the Byzantines.

250-350

Nice quiet turns interrupted only by having to waltz troops around to keep the Russians and Ottomans from landing settlers in all the wrong places.

Signed a treaty with Cathy for Peace only (she has nothing).

As soon as resistance ended in Russian towns cash rushed the temples and a barracks on the western island. Founded two more towns on the north coast of Old Russia to prevent trespass and interloping by Ottomans, or Russians.

All corrupt coastal towns are building galleys for the Armada (it's shield by shield but they will be cheap rushes when we need them).

Re-upped all lux deals with Byzantines and Mongols but made no deals with Ottomans.

Learned Chivlary and Theology.

Started the FP in Pampalona as it will be built by hand before the next war generates a leader.

Finished some libraries.

Workers are planting forests around Madrid to reduce the food surplus, get knights in four and open high shield fields to Barcelona and Murcia

Moved the horsemen to Salamanca to prepare for the Egyptian War and when Chivalry came in everybody got a nice shiny suit of armor, a shield and a longer, sharper lance, then got back in the boats.

The galleys with the Knights are now off the coast of Egpyt and the delcaration and invasion can occur on opening the save.

The Armada
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh04_01.jpg

The Core
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh04_02.jpg

Old Russia
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh04_03.jpg

West Island
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh04_04.jpg

Nice prep. dmanakho should have some fun.

I have it...
will play tomorrow most likely, but may have some time tonight.

Egypt: Looks like a fantastic target. No resources, a very short front line. I would really consider them our primary target. I agree with Bede, it will be some time to connect their lands, but we need to take and resettle or starve anyways. I would just like us to claim their land and resources. Cleo only has spears and archers and that will not change anytime soon. This really screams "hit me"! ;)

Pre-turn:Well... I guess we are ready for war with Egypt... Checking armies and AIs…W-a-a-a-a-it a second… Did you guys know Egypt build SoZ in 975BC…? It is 350AD outside and going back trough the thread gives me a guess-estimate of around 12 Ancient Cavalries patiently waiting for our arrival.
So we have 10 knights loaded in galleys… I will land just to get slaughtered before I get to the next turn. I have some heavy thinking to do.
Checking AIs again… A-Ha! Ottomans know gunpowder... I will wait for GL to give us gunpowder and will only send knights to Egypt covered by few muskets...
MM Madrid and now it produces 24spt and 1 knight each 3 turns.
We are importing a lot of luxuries... Deal with Otto will expire in 2 turns... I will try to extend than one.
Switched Barselona from galley to Knight.
T1. 360AD. Plant more trees around Madrid.... M-Manage it to keep 24spt.
I have 2 more galleys of knights moving to Egyptian land. Doing reckon of Egyptian land...
Pesky Egyptians have human intelligence – they have fortified spear and archer on top of the only hill suitable for landing at the southern tip of that island.

T2. 370AD AIs know education and gunpowder... Gr. Lib will expire next turn I will rush muskets and we are heading to Egypt.
IBT: Aztecs and Celts signed peace.

T3. 380AD. We have Gunpowder and Education. I have hired single scientist towards chemistry.

IBT: Celts and Byzantium signed peace. Celts completed Knights Templar.

T4. 390AD. Rushed 3 muskets. Soon... very soon we will be ready... Osman knows chemistry...

T5. 400AD... I am finally ready to take on Egypt next turn. We have 13 knights and 3 muskets in our army.

T6. 410AD. Checking AIs first... Do trade with Russians.. Sold them Theology for 18gold and 3gpt.
Declare in Egypt... Moving Galleys... Crap... Egyptian troops occupied almost every single tile on southern part of island..
I will have to land on plains. Going to AIs... Sign MA with Ottomans against Egypt... We have to give them furs in exchange… I will wait one more turn maybe Egypt will move units off the hill.

T7. 420AD Nope. Didn’t happen, they keep spear fortified on that hill. I have no chance but land on plains.

IBT. We lost 2 muskets to Ancient Cavalry right away. Lost 3 knights in addition to that. We only killed 4 Ancient Cavalry and couple of archers

T8. 430AD Pamplona completed FP, switched to barracks. Out of 13 knights I originally landed only 4 are fully healed. Few of our cities are about to riot - Lux slider goes up 10% as a result.
Attacked and captured Elephantine... Killed 3 spears, one Ancient cavalry, archer and warrior. Lost one knight.
I keep my fingers crossed and waiting for retaliation. Moving more knights to Elephantine.

IBT: Ancient Cavalry rocks.. They killed 3 fortified vet knights and lost only a single unit.

T9. 440AD... Things are a little better... Killed 3 Ancient Cavalries lost only one knight.
But I don't have fully healed knights in Elephantine and I have 4 Egyptian archers and 2 Ancient Cavalries ready to attack
For the next turn. I have only one fully healed musket covering city.
IBT: Our brave musketman killed 5 Egyptian units before getting killed.

T10. 450AD... Clearing territory around Elephantine… Worker actions on our own land. Moving more knights towards Elephantine.

Post-turn: Ok… We have a beach-head city on our position. Can we keep it? Can we move forward? We probably can… I don’t think Egypt has many ACs left, so things will get a little better in couple of turns.
There are 2 more galleys with 4 knights to be delivered next turn. I assumed ship chaining was not allowed trick in this game so I did not use it.
I made a mistake by not sending a settler along with troops. Should have re-settle that city and rushed temple right away. I haven’t checked how big is the flip risk… But we may want to re-settle the city anyways.
I didn't start researching at max... We really need cash to short rush knights and without marketplaces it will be hard to self-research anyways.

Screenie:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed04-450AD.JPG

rough ride, but with AC that was expected. well, you made that and now we should get that whole island if possible.

Too bad about certain members of the greeting party. Sounded pretty bad. I will get it on other computer.

Too bad about certain members of the greeting party. Sounded pretty bad. I will get it on other computer.

Spell to the idiots meaning of above :ack:

I think the comment is about all of the AC that hit you early in the Egypt landing.

I guess we have build no libraries yet? If not researching ourselves seem pointless to me, so minimun research and trading and demanding techs for peace seems the way to go.

We do have few libraries...
But our income is too low. We won't research chemistry faster than in 15 turns. We need more markets for faster research..
But that isn't the biggest reason.
I'd like to use cash we have on short-rushing knights until we break Egypt spine. We are low on military. I believe right now it is a priority unless we want our war efforts against Egypt to go down the drain.

I think the comment is about all of the AC that hit you early in the Egypt landing.

That is correct. Although not understanding certainly doesn't equate to idiot. I wasn't particularly clear.

450 AD (0) - Only a few minor adjustments to get commerce where shields would be wasted.

IT - Lose a knight, kill two AC.

460 AD (1) - Take care of the winning AC of the IT, and a knight. In my first elite victory of the round, we get Bartolome. As they are retreating their AC into Memphis, and it has ivory (maybe all of their ivory?) I take a stab at it. The best defending unit is 3hp and defense 2, and 6 knights take the city, with no losses.

470 AD (2) - Kill a ridiculous number of obsolete units. Something like 14. With 15 knights. Am forced to abandon Memphis.

IT - Kill an AC

480 AD (3) - Got nothing better to do, so rush a courthouse in a fishing village with the leader. Take out a 5 or 6 unit stack without losses

IT - Kill 3 archers, lose a knight.

490 AD (4) - Try for Thebes, but it has a barracks and lots of free bombard from healing archers. Kill all three veteran spears, though, losing one knight.

IT - Rotten luck. A spear attacked a yellow lined knight and won, among other things. We lose four knights.

500 AD (5) - A knight retreats to a regular warrior! The small expeditionary force sent to take Memphis now slightly smaller, it is quite fortuitous that a number of knights are healed and ready to go. Memphis will be ours next turn, barring further misfortune.

510 AD (6) - 1068g, 25gpt, and furs to the Celts for Astronomy. Astronomy gets Banking and all of 4g from the Mongols. Get that terrible luck at Memphis, so it lasts one more turn.

520 AD (7) - Capture Memphis.

530 AD (8) - Abandon Memphis. Upgrade galleys.

540 AD (9) - Not too much. Healing.

550 AD (10) - Load some caravels with knights. I want to finish off Russia. They can then be used to get Egypt's island cities. I only have one settler in production, and we probably ought to get another over there. Raze and replace is definitely necessary, as the two cities I captured had flip risks around 10%, though with full resistance. I didn't want to give them a chance to get it back, though.

We have ivory and could trade it, but I was holding on to it to use as part of a tech deal, if a twofer ever opens up. We can also build Conquistadors now, and a few are in progress. It might not be a bad idea to hold out until cavalry, or we could hopefully trigger it now and amass some gold while buying/researching towards MT. Upgrade of knights to cavalry is relatively inexpensive.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed04_550AD_knights.jpg

We need more markets for faster research.. That is somewhat obscure to me. We need libraries for faster research, markets for income and happyness, but I agree we should get a foothold in Egypt first.

got it, will try and expand our foothold in egypt

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed04_650AD.SAV)

Pre-turn
swap a few no growth cities to settlers. MM a bit, we are mining a mountain we can even work at the moment?

1. 560AD
we lose 1 knight razing Elephantine netting 5 slaves. rather deal with 1 Civ only at a time due to WW, not going to send units to Russia
drop 6 knights at Alexandria
Ottoman would give us chemistry for ivory and horses, sure they would love to have sipahis.

IT Epypt want to have peace, would give up 2 towns, not yet

2. 570AD
Byz know music theory now, trade it for banking
discover we have a salt source not connected and could trade it with many Civs, for example the Mongols that have chemistry
check culture and Egypt is not better. we can't keep razing cities without settler replacement. decide to take cities from now
since capital is gone
attack and take Alexandria, take Giza
get chemistry from Ottoman for ivory and 53gpt. they are the only ones having metal and physics

IT Byz caravel sets sail, surely they want to claim some land as well

3. 580AD
set up attack against next 2 towns

IT Russia and Ottoman sign against Egypt

4. 590AD
capture Pi-Ramesses, lose a knight while taking Byblos

5. 600AD
Leon founded, capture El-Almarna, capture a lone settler (they must be desperate)

IT Mongols finish Bach

6. 610AD
WW hits very hard, but only 5 cities to capture, need to increase lux to 30%
great chances for trading since only Ottoman know metal, but the rest know a bit
we are paying 53gpt to Ottoman, go for immediate steal and get metallurgy
get physics and silks for metal, ivory and 24 gpt from Celts
sell them WM for their TM and 70g, sell Mongols physics for navigation and WM
Ottoman know MT and ToG. sell WM to russia for 56g, aztecs for 67g, Ottoman for 78g

found Zamora, capture Hieraconpolis

IT spot Byz caravel returning

7. 620AD
capture Abydos, last city on Egypt mainland

8. 630AD
drop units on small island, find out our home defense is basically non existent, needs to be fixed

IT Egypt and Ottoman sign peace

9. 640AD
attack Lisht with conqustador and we get GA, town auto razed
attack Buto, defeat 2 spears and retreat, 1 spear left

10. 650AD
take Buto and Avaris
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed4650a.jpg
found Merida

2 settlers will be ready, we can build one more to settle former Egypt. I left 2 caravels with knights fortified, we can attack and take Russia, if we like
next target should be surely Ottomans, they are running away.
this last turn trading opportunities came up. Mongols know MT as well, we could get it from them for slat and 2 lux. leave it to next player to make deals
we have a deal with Ottoman for another 16 turns, next target should be them. we can either do 0% research and get 375gpt
or get magnetism in 7

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed4650b.jpg

got it, will try and expand our foothold in egypt That was quite a understatement, eh? :thumbsup: Got it, but please give me a bit time to play.

WW would never have been an issue with Russia, and I wanted to eliminate them because there is still a small flip risk in a lot of their cities. Though your use of the knights does seem superior to what I wanted to do.

WW would never have been an issue with Russia I know that, what I meant was that I wanted to get rid of Egypt faster before taking on Russia. We can now take out their last city easily.

I saw that Ottoman have a source of horses on one of the far away Islands, maybe they did not intsall a harbor yet, but I guess they would do so soon. We might as well trade horses with them and get the max out of it. But I suggest no more per turn deals with them, since we want to attack them sooner or later.

I rather we do that sooner, since Cavs versus rifles is still ok, but to fight infantry will be brutal without any arty support.

I don't know how far away the far away island is, but maybe we go over and take their horses. It would be nice to avoid Sipahi altogether. We should have a small window open where they have musketmen to defend and no Sipahi, and we have cavalry. Lets make the most of it.

I don't know how far away the far away island is it's that island east of Egypt. the horses are roaded already, but apparently there is no harbor, but it won't take that long. Maybe we should eliminate Russia in 2 turns and then send those knights over to that island and take the horses. Meanwhile get MT and attack main Ottoman Island with Cavs

is that a viable plan?

I think grs would be capable of doing that. Assuming, of course, that he likes that plan.

oh, I forgot that we have a lux deal for another 16 turns. well, in hindsight, I should not have renewed it. But at that moment, WW was pretty and we needed it. We can use the GA now to build a really strong core and then simply overwhelm them

Hmm, that changes things a bit. Sixteen turns is a long time to wait, and they are only short IA by one tech, right? I hate to do this, but my inclination is to wait for tanks. Byzantines are near Metallurgy. We might gift it to them just to remove Great Wall, if they have enough towns that walls could be a factor. I don't think they have saltpeter, but then again I mixed up their ownership of resources with that of Egypt last time, so who knows.

what's happening here? it's 3-4 days already

grs said he needed a few days, I didn't feel the need to rush him. I didn't post strict deadlines, and I know grs hasn't disappeared. So no worries.

I will finish tomorrow 24h at latest. Thank you for your warm words bed_head!

Pre: Establish an embassy with the Celts.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Embassy_in_Entremont.jpg

Investigate Novosibirsk.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Novosibirsk.jpg

Change many builds from wartime (units) to peacetime (improvements). I switch Madrid to Magellan's. If it works, it will serve as prebuild for Newtons, with Magellan's and - worstcase - an university as fallback.

Ask Russia to leave or declare. They leave, so we declare. I spare you the details of leader farming, we got a MGL in 690AD, which now is in Madrid. As the Russians served their purpose, Novosibirsk was taken and Russia is out.

On the IBT between 690AD and 700AD the Mongols want to renegotiate a lux deal. We buy wines for furs, ivory and 7gpt.

From 700AD on I rearrange troops for an invasion of the Aztech gems in Tzintzuntzen. You will find 5 caravels carrying 2 settlers, 1 elite horse, 1 elite musket, 2 vet, 7 elite and 1 elite* knights east of Novosibirsk. This is how Tzintzuntzen looked at this time.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Tzintzuntzen.jpg

You may or may not want to attack Tula and Tamium first; these 3 cities should be all we need from them.

We have learned Theory of Gravity between 700AD and 710AD and will learn Magnetism on the next IBT. I would like to ask you to continue fast research. The Ottomans got Newton's and as they would have completed Magellan's one turn before us, Madrid fell back to an university.

On the IBT between 720AD and 730AD the Byzantines want to renegotiate a lux deal. We get incense, printing press, 50 gold and their world map for physics and 1gpt. The gpt was included to give us a chance to renegotiate when it runs out in 20 turns, before they can sell it elsewhere.

I have moved all workers towards the core. We can probably get railroads very soon and we need them. I did not buy military tradition yet, as I still hope for some backwards civ (Byzantines or Aztechs) to get it, so we can trade it for the techs we are up. Barcelona is currently piling up shields for scientific method, though it might be too soon. We can rush a small wonder (Intelligence Agency? - we have no chance on the Iron Works in our core :() with the leader or use it for something else before we get a new one from the Aztechs.

My idea would be - after the Aztec adventure - to go for Osmans and join in the Celts and maybe the Byzantines too.

Got it.

Invade Aztecs, keep up the reearch pace.

Sounds like a plan to me.

I knew grs' turns would be worth the wait.

In 760 Ottomans finish Magellans's.

In 790 the fleet arrives at Tzint....and we declare war and unload.

In 810 found Alcoron and attack Tzintzint...It takes three dead knights and some wounded but the town falls into our hands. Raze it for the slaves to clear the jungle.

The Byzantines learned Magnetism, sold it to the Celts for Military Tradition and picked up Nationalism as their IA tech.

In 820 we learn Steam Power and have no coal. There is coal in the Mongol lands on the island they share with the Celts and the Ottomans (Tsertsetleg is the town) and in their core between Karakorum and Ta-Tu. The Celts have one scource of coal at Alesia. The Ottomans and Byzantium apparently have none.

The Mongols will give Nationalism and Military Tradition for Steam and I want to see if he will give up his extra coal so do the deal and he has not connected his second source....

The blinkin' Ottomans have researched Communism and Fascism already. Sell him Steam Power for 264g+125gpt as he will only buy it from the Mongols anyway and it turns out he has an extra source. He wants Furs and Spices for it and even though I hate selling luxuries to a Scientific Democracy buy it. Then sell our Ivory to Theodora for 100g+2gpt.

And start railroading the core. And turn up te science towards Electricity due in 8 at -18gpt.

And the Celts dtart Shakespeare's.

In 830 found Vigos on the rubble of Tzint.. and short rush the harbor to get the gems online.

Aztecs land a Mace and a pike at Novosibirsk. Kill the pike but the mace kills our knight. Load another knight from Egypt to reinforce the town,

Aztecs take Novo and add the Russian workers to the city. Knight landing should take it back soon.

In 850 the Golden Age ends (it costs us a turn on the research rate to Electricity) and Novosibirsk is retaken. The Russians are not happy to see us BTW. Frigate and caravel full of cavalry set sail for the two Aztec towns on the far island.

There is a settler at Byblos in position to fill the last hole on the former Egyptian coast.

Somehow, even with no money Theo managed to parlay her way to Medicine and Steam, not sure how, though :confused:

I am not real happy about the deals made, as feeding luxuries to a Scientific minded Democracy just hastens the pace but we need the coal. The Mongol deal was more a bone-headed move as I failed to notice they had not connected their second coal mine. We do seem capable of at least keeping up due to the banks and universities built. :goodjob:, you guys.

The workers have not spread out to run the milnet yet. I kept them close to the high output towns to keep production up when the GA ended.

Osman really wants horses to build his Sipahi. The former Russian isalnd could use some more defense.

posting something unusual for bed game ;)

Roster:
ThERat
grs
Bede
dmanakho <- up
bed_head7 <- on deck

I have it and likely to play tomorrow

posting something unusual for bed game ;)

I hope that is not a shot at me!

I hope that is not a shot at me! :lol: :lol: :lol: , just wanted to make sure we all know who is up next. don't take it to heart

What heart? It has been broken after all of your jokes about my hosting.

Check this out

Roster:
ThERat
grs
Bede
dmanakho <- up
bed_head7 <- on deck

Yeah, I can do it too.

Oh, i was planning to play tonight and forgot CD inside my laptop at work...
I promise i will play tomorrow at lunch hour ;)

No problem.

Pre-tun. Sending 2 horses from former russian land to the closest city with barracks for upgrade.
Upgraded knight to cav. Switched one of the harbor on egypt island to barracks and rushed it, so we can upgrades all those knights to cavs. If we rush temple in Novosibirsk we can claim coal.
I think Theodora should be our next target.
She lucks salpenter so no cavs for her, and she is very close to us, so easy to get there.

IBT. Ottomans are building US.

T1. 860AD. Upgraded 3 more knigts. I found sleeping columbus in Madrid and can't find a reference if we kept him for somthing important. So i rush univercity in one of our core cities.

IBT. Aztecs landed 6 units next to Vigo.

T2870AD. Killed all 6 aztec troops, including 2 knights, 2MDIs, pike and jag. lost 2 knights and leader was produced.

T3.880AD. Mostly maintenance and moving some cavs towards Aztec island.

IBT. Extended deal with mongols. They give wines we give furs and salp.

T5. 900AD Electricity comes.. Ottomans are only ones with Medicine.. So i trade..
We give electricity and getting Medicine 302Gold and 25gpt in return. Sci. Method in 7. Upgraded couple of horses and knights. Rushed h

T6. 910AD. Just keep shaffling workers.

T7.920AD. Landed some cavalry to attack aztecs next turn.

IBT. Trade deal with Theo expired, i don't want to extend. Mongols declared onAztecs

T8. 930AD.. Few cities in riot... Have to put lux slider on 10%. Capture Tula - no losses

T9. 940AD. Capture Tamiun no losses... We need to quell resistanse in those cities and send most of the troops to new targets.


T10. 950AD. Moving fleet towards Byzantium as the next target.

Post-turn: 3 caravels and frigates are up north waiting for the resistance to be over to pick up cavalry and send it where it is needed most.
I suggest make peace with Aztecs, their land is way to far.
Wait 7 turns for deal with Theo to expire and attack building forces meanwhile.
Sci.Methods in 3.
We need to buy Industrialization. I have a leader delivered to madrid to rush factory.
Have fun!
ALERT ALERT! There are 4 workers in sleep mode near Zaragoza. I meant to leave those for the next player to decide what to do with and accidentally fortified them.

Boy oh boy, my turn again.

950 AD (0) - To be perfectly honest, it looks like the last ten turns were very rushed, to say the least. Totally corrupt towns with no improvmenents whatsoever building wealth? Less serious a problem is that cities aren't micromanaged for what they are building. Madrid is doing 26spt and building Cavalry. Change a number of builds, and tile assignments.

It also looks like we missed the window of opportunity for hitting the Byzantines. They have rifles.

960 AD (1) - Checking cities, and we seem to have lots of courts in the core. I am thinking Communism would help us out a lot.

970 AD (2) - Seriously considering Communism trades. Will wait until we have ToE.

980 AD (3) - Learn Scientific Method, view big picture, switch Palace to ToE, take Atomic Theory and Electronics. Unfortunately, no prebuild for Hoovers. Trade Electricity to Celts for Industrialization, 26g, 11gpt. Get Communism and 57g from Theodora for Electricity. Persia won't give up Replaceable parts for Scientific Method, so we start research there.

Also rushed the factory in Madrid.

990 AD (4) - Revolt to Communism. I forgot we were religious. I do half hearted anarchy MM to get some growth.

1010 AD (6) - Enter Communism. Lose some research capacity in the short run, but once some more courts are up we should be in better shape. It would have had a much better effect if most of the land that we have conquered was not so useless.

1030 AD (8) - Lose coal from the Ottomans. I somehow missed that we were importing, so belatedly begin roading the coal on an island out there. It is a slave currently, so it'll be awhile. Actually, we can't wait that long. Have to give SM, furs, spices, and 48gpt for The Corporation and coal.

Hoover's is in progress. Once we get the tech that allows SP Headquarters (Espionage?) I was thinking we put it in Barcelona.

The tech pace is really moving, and by that I mean the Ottomans is just about doing 4-turn research. At least, they got RP, The Corporation, and Refining in my turns. I think we will want tanks for war. Between now and MT, we can get our infrastructure to where it should be. There isn't any real reason to fight with cavalry at this point in time, as we can't use anything but frigates to bombard. Come Modern Age, we'll have a hell of time beating the Ottomans, as I don't foresee us being able to attack any time soon.

Damn, forgot the screenshot.

We want the IA if we switched to Communism I would say. This and SPHQ are allowed by Espionage. After RP and Esp. we should aim for Combustion as that is our way to go (see variant rules). I agree we somehow lost track of this game, but once we have infantry I would invade Cleo no matter what.

Why did we not fish for leaders (and wines) in the Aztech lands? We are still at war with them and can stay so since we revolted to Commie, so why do we not generate leaders? We need to rush at least 2 small wonders (see above) soon. After that The Wall Street will show up in some time.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed04_1150AD.SAV)

Pre-turn
hmm, we self research at 11 turns, might as well switch that off and steal, communists are great at that.
why are we still fighting Aztecs? our galleons are too far away and Mongols are hurting them. war happiness? since we declared according to the log, will just sign peace
we still have 18 turns on a deal with Ottoman, they are democracy. we can trade AT with them getting RP +210gpt and 330g, we now make 579gpt (0% science and 0% lux)
our next target is Byz for the time being and the lux they have. 20 turns later, we have to attack Ottoman I guess
trade furs to Mongols for 26gpt, they would have given 54gpt for corp, a bit too cheap
MM a lot since we can use engineers now, change build to markets from lib since market gives happiness as well

finally press enter

1. 1060AD
we got enough money for a steal and get refining from Ottoman :D
by the way, we have rubber and oil, but Ottoman also :(

IT cancel the deal with Byz

2. 1070AD
declare on Byz, celts declare on us since we bombard their land, MM to avoid unhappiness
land on Byz territory

3. 1080AD
raze Byz town and establish a beach head

5. 1100AD
take celt town in the north

6. 1110AD nth much
make peace with Byz, since a lot of units approach and we are not ready for that at all (did plenty of leader fishing, but it wouldn't succeed
kill 3/4 Cavs that celts landed at their former town

IT Ottoman start Hoover :eek:

7. 1120AD
check and see that neither US and hoover will be built in time by Ottoman (8 and 10 turns), we need 6 more turns :rolleyes:
need to increase lux to 20% since Celts block gems (lucky we didn't trade with anyone else)

8. 1130AD
Celts lands 8 units on gem island, refuse to talk
we clear 3 of them and they talk!!! make peace and get 13g. we can't trade lux with them, since they signed a trade embargo with Ottoman against us

9. 1140AD
we have now 4500g, enough for 2 steals. start research on sanitation in 7 since AI usually neglects that

10. 1150AD
we get hoover in 3, sanitation in 5
we should then try and get tanks, but we will face Ottoman with tanks as well. we have to sign Celts in as well
Ottoman will have an issue with democracy, that will be our advantage
no new tech is know, but I guess soon Ottoman will have more

we need far more units to fight a war, soon the factory builds are done and we can go into war mood and produce more units

the beachhead in Byz land
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed041150a.jpg

the world
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed041150b.jpg

we currently hold 34% of the land

Got it......

I guess I should have said something, but I thought you would have realized that it might be a bad idea not to trade AT away, especially when the Ottomans are researching so quickly. Also, our diplomats do not recieve any bonus on stealing, just our spies, and we do not yet have espionage. We needed the Ottomans coal more than we needed Refining. Then again, you seem to have a way with the five fingered discount in games, so maybe it wasn't such a risk.

I do agree with your switch to marketplaces from libraries. I didn't start any library builds, I don't think, but I should have changed them once in communism. I also have a bad habit of neglecting to make peace if I feel like it doesn't matter either way. We weren't getting WW, so I didn't bother.

the reason why I traded AT was for 2 issues.

getting money and RP to have faster workers and more flexibility in using specialists.
slowing Ottoman down by taking their money. they are doing 4 turn research, we got to somehow slow them down. either by making war (but we had a deal for another 18 turns for coal), or taking their money.

of course I knew that will open up the electronics path for them, but felt we were safe with our prebuild. well, we will get it since they need another 4 turns longer than us.

Also, our diplomats do not recieve any bonus on stealing, just our spies, and we do not yet have espionage. government do play a role and I figured that stealing from fasicsm is difficult. communist governments favor steals.

I thought, if we fail, we will get coal soon ourselves and I would then have piled the others in a war against Ottoman, that would have slowed them down as well.

Maybe, that is lunatic gambling. at least now we are in a very good position, we have coal ourselves already, we have a beachhead in Byz land and with the proper amount of units, can take them out.

We must get the world into war mode once the Ottoman deals runs out. Ottoman, Celts and Byz are democracies, they research too fast and war will hurt them much.

Double checking that US cascade was not possible would have been nice. That was a big gamble. Check the Strategy Articles section for an article about spy missions and such. And yes, I think it was lunatic gambling. It worked out okay though, so no harm done.

Check the Strategy Articles section for an article about spy missions and suchI can't find a proper guide on steals for certain government versus others. But, from my own experience, if you steal from anarchy chances are very high. and even without spies, just being communist versus democracy seems to work out well.
hardest are communist (just that AI usually avoid that type) and, of course, facists.
is there anyone who could quantify my lunatic approach to steal from a democracy?

A study of espionage missions (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97042)

I can't find a proper guide on steals for certain government versus others. But, from my own experience, if you steal from anarchy chances are very high. and even without spies, just being communist versus democracy seems to work out well.
hardest are communist (just that AI usually avoid that type) and, of course, facists.
is there anyone who could quantify my lunatic approach to steal from a democracy? Because there is no such guide :) The influence of governments on steal chances is one of the Civ rumors that is hardest to overcome, but it only influences propaganda!

All in Oystein's most excellent guide. It comprehensively covers the espionage tab.

I can't play before Thurday or Friday, so best would be a swap, if Bede can take it.

Got it. Play on tonight.

1150

Aztec Nation now consists of a single galley and a lonely caravel. He has no cities and of course no money.

We have a ton of cash and and not a whole lot of units to upgrade and very little to spend it on other than research. Every one else in the world are Democracies, except the Mongols (Red) and the poor Aztecs (Despots).

We have a potential problem with the Celts sitting on our extra oil source and with the Mongols just to the north of it.

We have deals running with everyone. We don't know espionage yet.

Make some minor citizen re-assignments then settle in to watch the infrastructure and Hoover's complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh04_1170AD.jpg

First big news of 1190:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh04_1190AD01.jpg

Osman comes calling demanding luxury tribute and I tell him to go away. He does, but is just a little miffed. Used Sanitation when it came in to strip the Ottoman treasury and pick up some lux as he had zero interest in selling anything for it (like Steel or Espionage).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh04_1190AD.jpg


From then until 1250 just tend to the ground and build factories, a navy (of sorts) and reinforcements for the islands shared with Ottomans. Buy Espionage from the Celts for Atomic Theory and build the SPHQ in Barcelona. We now have three cities at 50spt.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh04_1240AD01.jpg

Used our accumulating cash to upgrade veterans and boats that were hanging around. There are two galleons at the tip of Egypt to provide a shuttle service to Novosibirsk. And stationed two galleons and a frigate at the NE tip of the home island to start moving troops to the Gems and oil towns.

Once the IA finishes in Pampalona we can plant a spy and steal Steel from Ottomans or we can research it ourselves and still have the cash for stealing something else. Since he bought Sanitation his Treasury has only grown about 70 gold pieces.

I hesitated to steal anything from Osman until I had some defense for our coal town at Novosibirsk and the town next to Denzili but there are plenty infantry in both places now.

Roster check:
grs - up
dmanakho <- on deck
bed_head7
ThERat
Bede - played

Reads excellent. Got it!

Three at 50s already in Communism is not too shabby. Good prep turns.

:( I need a skip in all SG I am up, since I am without civ access for the weekend :(

If you could do a super switch and play after dmanakho, who is now up, that would be great. After tomorrow, I will be gone until the 4th/5th of March.

I have it, will play tomorrow...

Quite uneventful set of turns
Pre-turn: Looks pretty good.
We don't have no artys. So i decide to alternate infantry and arty builds in our major cities. I'd say i am going to steal steel, meanwhile getting forces build up. Oopsy...
no can't do... almost forgot the variant rules... keep building infantry :-)

T1. 1255AD. Guess what - ottomans have steel already. Go for carefull steal spend some 2400+ gold and we have steel. Unfortunately every single AI outthere is bancrupt and i can't sell anything to anyone. Best i can do on self-research is to go on 100% in 8 turns at -225gpt.... Nah... steals work better... put science to 0% again, we run +581gpt.
T2. 1260AD...nothing Oh, well. Ottomans have combustion.
T3. 1265AD
T4. 1270AD. IA is built in pampalona.
T5. 1275AD... Planted spy in Istanbul and immediately stole combustion.
Sold AT to Byzantium for Fascism+18gold+7gpt. The rest of the gang are broke.
T6. 1280AD. Ottomans are on the roll.. they have mass production...
t7. 1285AD nothing
T8. 1290AD. I just love it.. go fo safe steal and we have Mass production.
T9. 1295AD. Sold Electronic to Theodora for 230gold and 89gpt. Donated it to Brennus for silks
IBT. Deal with mongol expired... Next player to decide if we want to give him AT for wines.
T10... Just assigned few workers.. Didn't do much MM... Woke up some of our units. I never realised until like turn 9 we have had so many units on Theodora's island... :)

Post-turn: No screenie... Absolutely nothing has changed. Kept building infantry and also built few destroyers... We will need those toys since we can't use arty. Sci. slider is at 0%. Stealing has been effective so far.
Once we have tanks we can get involved in few more wars.

great stealing. once we got tanks, we gotta stop Ottoman, they are on a democracy steamroller.

question: who is next? bedhead? still around? if not, Grs, can you play tonight? else, I can play tonight

Have we decided on victory condition?
If we go after domination we won't even need to touch ottomans..
Rest of the AIs are weak and we can simply roll over them.

Go ahead and play. I am still around (expected to be asleep already, but it is far too early to actually sleep) but haven't the time to play.

Conquest is the victory condition that we seek. I wanted a Modern Age challenge when I started the game. It gets kind of tough without bombers and artys.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed04-1350AD.SAV)

Pre-turn
self research is not worth it, can see, next tech is hopefully MT
find out that Ottoman are in anarchy, how come?

IT cancel deals with Mongols and Ottoman, since these are 2 targets

1.1305AD
nth much

2.1310AD
start Wall street, Ottoman are fascist, well...and Byz and Ottoman know economic, but we have no prebuild
get economics from Byz for combustion
change Madrid to Smith MM and we can get it in 9 turns

IT Ottoman and Byz build Smiths as well, expected

3.1315AD
check on prebuilds, Istanbul in 8, Ottoman now at 40% science, Istanbul has 15 inf defender, good luck if we want to take it later on
Constantinople in 7, guess we need to take that city once we the deals are up. change Madrid to stock exchange

IT deals with Ottoman are up, don't renew them, once we have MT we need to go for war

4. 1320AD
spot Aztec galley, declare and kill with destroyer, but they still have a unit somewhere
increase lux to 10% due to loss of lux, we still make 669gpt and have 4900g in the bank

5. 1325AD
Ottoman know flight, though not sure whether we can use bombers (don't think so) a steal is always good
careful steal gets us flight
foolish Aztecs show a caravel
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed41325.jpg
strong Aztecs? :confused: :lol:

IT wow, Ottoman finish Smiths, how did they do that?

after that nth much happened, we got Wall Street last turn, income up to 791gpt and we have 6200g, no new techs
I shipped a few units over th Byz land, once the deal is up we should attack them and once we have tanks, also go for Mongols
I feel or Ottoman. no new deals made so we got all options open
we could build airfields for easy troop transport, Madrid has airport, built an airfield in former Egypt already

it's coming along nicely...
Is Istanbul in range for fleet bombardment?
We might want to build more cruisers/destroyers if it is.

We are religious... so here is the idea...
with all the cash accumulated I suggest to revolt back into republic or demo upon getting MT and nicely spend all cash on rushing tanks.
We will be able to get much more in less number of turns even if we spend 4 turns in anarchy.

it is, there are a few destroyers now, but we could build more, since I have built a lot of infra, now we could go for some military builds.
we are lucky that Istanbul is within range. are we allowed for bombers? guess not

Looks like Bede is up again in this game...

Bed_head is out this week
and Grs is out until further notice....
It will be just three of us for some time.

Grs stated only the weekend, I would prefer him to take his turn instead of just 3 of us playing.
edit: saw his notice, ok then 3 of us continue

the revolting is a good idea. revolt and build a huge force and revolt back. but, one thing, don't forget, Ottoman will get a free tech once the acquire MT, don't they? we need to do 2 steals then. and can't wait too long else SS will be an issue

Got it. Will try the revolting thing....

1350

Ottomans learned MotTran in 1360 but spy theft failed, though spy escaped...

In 1365 make a deal with the Mongol for Wines selling him furs, spices and ivory hoping his economy will get a boost and he can afford to buy our stuff.

In 1375 do the dirty on Ottomans and get MotTrans. Turns out they got Ecology on the freebie so I steal that too.

Start the Revolution to Democracy.

In 1380 we become a Democracy.

Interesting result: productivity drops by one-third while GNP increases by 40%
And the volcano spews all over Khabaravosk.

In 1385 the first tanks roll off the assembly lines and are transported to Byzantium.

In 1395 I have to give up Combustion to get silks from Brennus.

And by 1400 we have a dozen tanks in New Barcelona ready for a Byzantine Blitzkrieg. Most of the navy is offshore waiting for the "Go" order at Constantinople.

We built nearly 20 tanks in 20 years. :D Most are in New Barcelona, others have been shipped or airlifted to the out islands.

There is a cluster of airfields in the tundra surrounding Jaen and we can build another cluster in Old Russia if we have the need. Byzantine island doesn't need one as reinforcements are on