we are the arabs, worshippers of Allah.
we are also the only true believers of the one true god.
as this earth is polluted by all those other inferior religions, our destiny has become preordained.
we must purify this earth, or follow the path set by the prophet - rising to the sky in our fiery chariot, establishing New Mecca.

now for the details:

Game: C3Conquests 1.22
Level: Emperor (due to popular demand :D)
Civ: arabia
World settings: standard size, continents, 70%, 5 billion, Arid, Warm.
barbarians: roaming
SGL - off
preserve seed - on
respawn AI - on
cultural linked - off

Victory conditions: all are on. we are only allowed Space and Domination.

Rivals: Ottomans, Russia, India, Egypt, Zulu, Byzantine, Mongols.

Variants:
* we are DEFIANT (Defiant: You must never give in to a demand from an opponent, that is, you always reject demands for tribute. You may never ally, sign a Right of Passage, MPP, or embargo with another civilization. You may never pay for peace (a peace treaty must either be straight-up or the opponent gives a concession to you. A deal where a tech costs 20 gpt normally and you pay 10 gpt for that tech as part of a peace treaty is fine). Any troops on your soil must be given a boot order every turn. No capturing foreign cities or demanding them in diplomacy. No foreign workers merged into existing cities. If an AI razes one of your cities, that civ must be eliminated.) thanks to arathorn for the ruleset.

* we CANT keep any taken cities!!! flipping cities is acceptable (as they have seen the light of god and chose to join us). captured cities can either be razed @ end of turn, or gifted to other civs.
* we are superior to all other civs, so we must always gain from deals. no one for one deals. atleast 1g gain. as im a reasonable guy - just make it seem like we make a profit... we wont be nit pickin...
* as we are (sort of) peaceful we dont declare on others, but try to convert them first (via culture flips). we may declare if we need a specific goal (resourse, lux, etc), but never more than once every age.
* allowed victory - space or conquest only.

disclaimer - i am not against any religion. i hate nobody. just decided to pick a groovy theme, a` la DUNE. if you are offended, or a muslim, or an arab - tough!

current roster - all filled up!!!!

soul warrior - up now
bede - up next
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins)
tubby rower
zakharov
Iriquoisplisken

I'd like to join. I haven't won on Monarch yet but I'm in TR01 and AENIGMA1 Monarch SG. I'm still learning so you won't have to worry about me having "rogue" turnsets. I've already learned a lot from the small amount of time that I've being participating in SG's. If I'm not qualified, that's fine. Just let me know.

Either difficulty is fine and I like the historic rivals instead of random.

Ok, I will join. :)

I would prefer to play Emperor, though I don't mind playing Monarch if everyone else wants to.

Questions on the settings:

- SGLs on or off?
- I prefer to have 'preserve random seed' on, with 'AI respawn' and 'cultural start locations' off. Is this ok?
- I am assuming wonder victory is off.

Everything else seems fine, including the chosen opponents.

I will post more when we have a team and a starting screenshot.

@Soul,

I'll give this a shot but please count on me as 1/2 a player for the moment.

How do we decide if a Tech deal is profitable? Tech calc always needs the total $'s already invested in a tech and I doubt many ever track the investment to date. However, it would be a good thing to do to fine tune specialists.

I'm voting for Emperor, historic opps, AI respawn off, cultural palcement off.

I likewise vote for a hill starting location on a river w/ cows, wheat, a few luxes (wine (whine :) ) if we can only get one), and several bonus grasses.

ok guys - check post one for clarifications.
SGL = off
random seed = on
respawn AI = on or off. it will be my little surprise to the rest of you :evil:
cultural start = off
level = EMPEROR :eek:

regarding deals - no hard fast rules, just make it look like we get a "good deal". if we can actually prove we gained more... all the better.

@ jb1964 - I likewise vote for a hill starting location on a river w/ cows, wheat, a few luxes (wine (whine ) if we can only get one), and several bonus grasses.
we have 2 votes for that, but i would prefer spices. remember - we are muslim, and are NOT allowed alcohol of any kind.
maybe i should add it to the rules? "no wines / drugs allowed"? maybe not?

@ all, as we seem to have 3 full time and 2 part time players, i will roll a few starts tonite and post pics. 3 is the magic number...

I'd like to join, too. I'm well on my way to my first Emperor win, and I've played the Arabs before and liked them alot (Monarch, won by Domination, I believe). Plus, the rules seem interesting.

The rest of this week may be a little busy for me, with school (end of the semester, lots of homework and tests), and the other SG I'm in (with you, actually), so I'd like to be at the end of the roster, if I may.

:worship: Sufi Bede reporting for Jihad duty.

That's 5 and a half team members. Hello to you all. :salute:

maybe i should add it to the rules? "no wines / drugs allowed"? maybe not?
I think we can allow it by saying we will give our citizens grapes instead of wines. ;)

Edit: Hello to you too Admiral Kutzov :wavey:

idiots reporting in. ready to rock n roll. make Bede post the temple rant before we start so everyone know his and my philosophies. He trained me, any of my posts are all his fault. :lol:

Edit: idiots need lots of pictures since we're not too good with words. Let's see the start. :crazyeye:

@AdmK, all I did was plant a few seeds, you were the one who watered them with Rolling Rock and fertilized with schnapps.

you were the one who watered them with Rolling Rock and fertilized with schnapps.


yeah, but it's still your fault in my warped little world. :) Where's the screenie?

welcome aboard BEDE and IROQUISPLISKEN :king: & :mischief:

screenies will be posted tonite (in 6-8 hours) as i got stuck at work. :mad:

current roster - all filled up!!!!

soul warrior - up now
bede - up next
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins)
tubby rower
zakharov
Iriquoisplisken

@soul warrior, how many starts are you going to give us? 5 is normally a good number.

Btw, our Roman SG was a domination win, not a conquest (in your sig).

5 starts...
and i will edit the sig... oopsy :)

okey guys, here are the rolls.
i rolled only 5, these are the first ones. so this is what we got.

im still having trouble with letting you see them without downloading them, but will solve it soon.

this is start no 2

start 3 is here

start 4 looking nice aswell

and last but not least
start 5

and here are some saves, if you want to fool around a bit.
if you do, please no commenting on unseen stuff.

Start 5 is the only one that looks like a 5 biilion arid warm start. It's also last on my list.

1) 2 BG's, river, 3 chops, no bonus resources or luxes.
2) No BG, river, 2 chops, plenty of floodplane and a lux in the mountains.
3) river, 1BG and a cow tile w/ floodpane available.
4) 2BG's, river and a hut. A move SE would probabaly put us on the coast.

I think at first blush I would vote for #3 but I need to do some more analysis to see ust how productive that combination of tiles can be.

No on 1. The Fremen didn't start in a dedicious forest.
No on 2. Idiots can't handle flood plains.
No on 3. See above.
Kinda like 4, reasoning to follow.
5 is second choice.

IIRC, we're religious and expansionist. Think we start with Pot. and CB. Presuming 4, we set research to BW, pop the hut with the settler (I know it delays the founding of our first city by a turn since we'd then have to move NE to the river). Worker goes west, scout goes E then N to the mountain. 70% water, so I'd build at least one more scout before a warrior.

Why can't the scout get the goody hut? :confused: If it went east, it would go across the river and its turn would end there anyway, so it would only be a turn ahead. It could get the goody hut, then still have one move left.

Or, just move the settler SE, then next turn when the city is made, we automatically get the goody hut, don't we?

My second choice would be #3, although I don't know what you mean by "Idiots can't handle flood plains"...

I not excited about any of these starts. Number 4 is probably the best of a bad bunch. I would look to settle N on the hill if the initial moves don't reveal anything of interest. We should not pop the hut with the settler as that would remove the chance of getting another one.

#1 is ok but I don't like the central location.

#2 might be nice if there is a bonus resource nearby. This is probably my second choice.

#3 has no shield potential without several moves, which would negate the advantage of the cow.

#5 might be ok for an industrious civ, but I think it will require too much work to become productive. Btw, I've never seen a sugar on a hill, is this a modded game?

On second thought I'm liking #4 best.

And yes, the hut pops one the boarders are established around it.

Btw, I've never seen a sugar on a hill, is this a modded game?

Yeah, I was wondering about that, too. :confused:

And I agree on #4.

@iroquoisplisken - idiot is a self reference. There's a whole mythology/history in the SG world. I like no research games (idiots are too dumb to research effectively) and I'm prone to stupid moves for no apparent reason. Also, one is not a complete idiot until all the required parts have been found and installed. Please be assured that I wasn't referring to the team, only myself when I said idiots don't like FP. I simply meant I have trouble handling FP in the AA.

Regarding the opening moves. I was looking at max recon on turn 1. Realized we can't pop a settler if we have one on the map, but I'd rather have the terrain knowledge and possibly a tech than the settler. Unless I've lost a few idiot parts (which is always possible, if not probable), I think the scout can get to the mountain despite the river.

Sugar on a hill is normal (albeit uncommon, apparently). Pretty nice, since you get the hill's production while still having 2fpt.

I don't know what I'm talking about, but here are my votes
1st - 1
2nd - 4
3rd - 5 (does have a FP E of settler)

no real reasoning, just I could do something with those and don't see too much potential in 2 & 3.

I like #5 thematically and it has the same productive capacity as most of the others but no trees. #3 is only adequate if we mine the deserts. Of the others #4 would be my choice.

IIRC, we're religious and expansionist. Think we start with Pot. and CB. Presuming 4, we set research to BW, pop the hut with the settler (I know it delays the founding of our first city by a turn since we'd then have to move NE to the river). Worker goes west, scout goes E then N to the mountain. 70% water, so I'd build at least one more scout before a warrior.

as it seems - we have a majority vote for start 4.
regarding the basic plan, i agree with the Admiral.
i will try to post the save and some detailed pix later today.

regarding the Sugarhill gang - no mods were used. it surprised me aswell, but we make the best of a bad situation :crazyeye:

regarding the lack of Arid, warm, 5 billion looks to the saves - what can i say, again no monkey business here. just some bleedin' bad RNG.

if the team wants to - i could reroll 3 starts (but that wouldnt very sportsmanlike of me)

[edit] just as a further clarification - im veryu old school in my gaming. that means i rarely mod the games. i prefer using the basic setup of the game and work within the borders. i am also a very proud VINYL JUNKIE :D .
ANALOG UNMODIFIED RULES!!!!

If we are indeed going for #4, it's time for some analysis.

I still don't see why we would want to pop the hut with settler. If it is because you want to pop it with no military units in play then that is irrelevant as we are expansionist. By founding first and popping the hut later we have a chance of another settler.

I would probably start with scout E then N to the mountain to take a look around. If nothing interesting is revealed then I would settle N on the hill and start the worker mining or roading (depends on our research strategy) on the starting tile (BG). I would rather move away from the coast as this will give us more shield potential, plus we will be moving away from the desert to the SW.

First build would be a scout followed by another one, then a warrior for MP. I am leaning towards Warrior Code at max, as this would allow a GH to give us a more expensive tech.

I can see one forest tile near our start position, so that will be available for a granary chop, though it may be better to keep it if it's the only one. We seem to be on the edge of a jungle, which means we will be productive once we can clear it away.

It may be best for the first player to post a screenie after a scout move before we make a final decision.

my start tactic would be this:
move scout to mountain. settler up river. worker on BG.
sci - i agree on WC @ max.
build sequence: scout, scout, warrior MP, settler, granary.

will play in 2-3 hours... any objections.. please post em

I'm fine with the moves posted. I would think that the hut can be popped by the first produced scout.

@Soul, by saying "settler up river" are you talking about on the hill or W?

@ tubby
by upriver i meant away from the sea. it depends on what the scout will find, but im leaning toward that hill for our Mecca.

1- i move the scout uphill, nothing good comes of it, so i move settler to hill too. worker starts mining on spot.

2- build Mecca. starts scout. WC @ 90% (0gpt, due in 23). sight gems to the north :D

3-6 nothing much. just moving the scout.

6- 2nd scout is out, start warrior. we meet EGYPT. cleo is polite and are up MAS. we get 25g from goodie hut by scout 2. finish mine, start road.

7- ziltch

8- spot EGYPTS borders :eek: 8 tiles away to the NNW.

9- finish mine, move to BG. see SILK (SW 7 tiles away).

10- warrior 2 is out, start another warrior due to Egypt 2 warrior pack heading south. mine BG.

11- we expand. tell cleo to remove her dogs, she complies.

12- Zzz

13- warrior out > settler. meet india (polite) they're up Alpha to our POT. no deal is worth it yet :cry:

14-15 nap time. expolring a bit.

16- meet a couple of Byzantine spears 3 tiles away from Mecca :confused: they must have snuck inside under our eyes. they are annoyed and also up BW, ALPHA & WC to our CB. we also see India's borders far to the south.

17- nada

18- WC in, WHEEL @ max (90%, due in 20)

19-20 nothing much.

summary
we have gems to our north (egypt side) and also due E (no one there yet)
we get the WHEEL in 18.
39g + 0gpt.
we have 2 scouts, 2 warrior and a worker. and a weak military.
DIPLO - India (polite) BW + ALPHA to our POT + WC
- Egypt (polite) BW + ALPHA + MAS to our ????
- Byzantines (annoyed) BW + ALPHA + MAS to our ????
land - as you can see. i dont think i need say anymore...do i? :cry: :cry: :cry:

didnt even bother with a dot map... ill take any habitable site i can..

How about these two spots for next settle spot. I think that the red one should be first, then the green dot would secure the 2nd gem

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SW2-dotmap3000bc.jpg

and the save
succsess after 25 tries...

bede... save us

After looking at the save, It looks like Cleo settled Memphis on the cow in the picture :wallbash:

ROSTER

soul warrior - just played
bede - up next
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins) - on deck (1st to confirm)
tubby rower - lurking
zakharov
Iriquoisplisken

You decided to play 21 turns then. ;)

The only redeeming feature of that marshland is that it won't be settled. We can leave it for now.

Why is there a warrior out exploring? It would have been better to build another scout instead.

There is no way we can pump out settlers with this land. I think we will have to concentrate on workers and military.

The variant only allows us to declare once per age, so we should encourage the Egyptians to declare on us by settling aggressively, then hit them with an archer rush.

Holy mudbats, Woodcock!

Where's my Gordon and my .20ga when I need 'em.

Got it.

I can get Bronze Working from Gandhi for Warrior Code and 28g. It moves us up the tree and maybe I can get more than 10g from him for Pottery and I end up getting his entire pile o' 38 gold pieces.

Won't be able to touch Alphabet or Masonry but no has Iron or the Wheel yet.

In 2900 I meet the lovely Theodora of Byzantium in the middle of the western desert. She's got Masonry and Alphabet too

In 2710 found Medina in the jungles and marshes in the face of the Egytpians. (following Zak's plan of getting in Cleo's face). Send the warrior from Mecca to provide coverage.

In 2630 lose a scout in the west to barbarians. In retaliation whack another camp in the south and collect 25g.

In 2550 Byzantines and Egypt learn The Wheel. We get credit for our sunk cost in the deal and can buy it from either one for 51g. Do the deal with Cleo as she is broke.

Then get Alphabet from Gandhi for The Wheel and 1g+1gpt.

All is not bleak. We are down Masonry to the ladies but have horses inside our borders. There are some nice deserts with elephants to the south of Mecca and a barbarian village awaiting our visit. Memphis is nicely sited for our archers and horsemen when the time comes. Research is at minimum towards Masonry as that is the only first tier tech we lack and if we are lucky the hut will produce a second tier tech for us. Pop the hut then reset research to Writing if we don't get it from the hut.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sw02_2150BC.jpg

I think that we should go down and get the silks in the south. From what I understand the AI prefers not to settle jungles & marshes until last. Then again if we settle the hill near Thebes, we could encourage Cleo to declare on us. We'd also get the game in the marsh under our great borders.

Since we are on continents, it looks like we might be middle of ours and the landmass to the east might be ours for the settling (until Map Making) if we place a city E-NE of Mecca.

Any thoughts?

Got it.

Wife's out for the evening so this will be ready before Saturday morning.

My one thought is that we should occupy that chokepoint.

jb - go for the chokepoint.
i think it is of the upmost importance.
second goal should be those silks?
we can make cleo declare on us later...

ROSTER

soul warrior -
bede -
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins) - jb got it
tubby rower - up next
zakharov - on deck
Iriquoisplisken

Edit: Nevermind...

My vote is silks 1st, then chokepoint. Hope we find a good spot for a worker pump. lots of wetlands to clear.

Problem with the coke is that it is 100% marsh in all directions. Settle west first to the silks then east to the elephants.

ok
imm convinced.
sliks first, choke later.
we need workers :cry:

Turn 0 – 2550 BC
We’re down Mason.

Turn 1 – 2510 BC
Pop a hut and we learn Masonry! Woohoo! We set our sights on Iron.
That warrior is heading straight for the choke.

Turn 2 – 2470 BC
Running the scout through India.
Mecca’s unhappy w/o a cop.
We can sell Mason to India for about half price. I’ll take it since, w/ my luck, it’ll be gone next turn.

Turn 3 – 2430 BC
Crap! A barb is heading for our unprotected Mecca and we’ll need to use the whip to keep from being sacked.

Turn 4 – 2390 BC

Turn 5 – 2350 BC
Holy cow! The barbs have moved off just enough for us to get a warrior.
Byzantines have Iron.

Turn 6 – 2310 BC
Theo also has Myst so she must have popped a hut.
She’s not interested trading anyting.

Turn 7 – 2270 BC
One of the barbs perches on the mountain at the choke.
An Egyptian and Byzantine warrior keep circling each other just outside our boarders. I think they’re arguing over who gets to take our worker.

Turn 8 – 2230 BC
25g from the barbs.

Turn 9 – 2190 BC
Scout lost to a barb.
Warrior kills off a barb.

Turn 10 – 2150 BC
Gandhi seems to have purchased Iron and Myst off of Theo. Neither will consider a trade.
Run our cop out of Medina tl cover our gem miner from an approaching barb.
Mecca's set to settler.
Sent worker to road in the direction of the silks.

I got the save.

I looked at it, and we can get IW for 79 + 1gpt from India. It's more expensive from Theodora. I'm not sure if we could re-coup the cost out of Egypt. I think that we should get it so we could find and settle the iron before Cleo does... Any comments? I might try to play this afternoon or tonight. So comments would be helpful.

roster:
soul warrior -
bede -
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins) - jb just played
tubby rower - got it
zakharov - up next
Iriquoisplisken -

Although I might be too late, I think it's best to take the trade and find out where iron is located, especially with another settler coming up. The AI already knows where the Iron is, so trading Cleo IW won't hurt us in that way (although, if she already has iron in her territory, she'll be able to use it that much quicker).

You might want to wait for a second opinion, though.

I think I'm going to go ahead and play soon. I was thinking about taking the deal to find the iron. I'll go for Iron if available instead of silks. Otherwise I'm going for the silks.

Pdds are good we have iron in our borders. Go for the silks in any case.

find the iron. if we are lucky, it will be near the silk. if not... use your discreation. think is the iron in IMMEDIATE DANGER? if not take the silks, if yes - take the iron

I'll defer since I haven't actually looked at the save. Some topics for future thought/discussion:

1. Once we have the iron and silks hooked up(almost a given since the AI is even more idiotic than me) where do we go, east or west? My vote is east.

2. reminder on worker pump. lots of wetlands to clear. @ Bede, maybe get out there and bring home some birds so we can pump an extra settler ;)

3. Need chiv. asap for the UU. We need to be in control by the IA.

West is a lot of desert, east is a lot of unknown except for the tusked lambs and some horses.

East to the jumbos, then hope somebody on the other side of the continent gets Math and we can trade the ivory to everybody for everything they are worth. (The AI doesn't know what to do with Ancient cavalry, remember AK?)

Workers are a priority but from where?

@AK, mudbats are better for impressing lissome young ladies with your wing-shooting skills and culinary sophistication than feeding laborers. They need juicy steaks and there's not a steer in sight.

I had to quit early last night and forgot to save so I just started from the 2150 save and repeated my actions. Things aren't

looking good. The Byzantines are increasing in power and there is a 3-stack of warriors to the N-NE of Medina. We could settle

right now and cover the iron but I think that we should move one more to the west. I'll post the save and some pics at the bottom.

T0 - 2150BCpull the trigger on IW for 1gpt & 79G to India
There's Iron to the west and south. Both reachable but western iron might come first since it is near Egypt
Cleo won't even offer 51g for IW so no iron for her
Switch to Writing @ min. with only 4g no high research for us!
T1 - 2110BCGet a warrior to choke point to prevent others from entering eastern retreat
T2 - 2070BCzz
T3 - 2030BCroad done move N of Mecca to road toward Medina
T4 - 1990BCCleo has iron working. She must have been researching
T5 - 1950BCMecca builds Settler-> warrior; MP will escort to western iron
Medina switched to worker
warrior covering worker near Medina will scout new city location
T6 - 1910BCMedina worker -> worker New worker to road to Iron
road to gems is done worker to road toward Mecca
T7 - 1870BCSack barb camp in Eastern retreat
T8 - 1830BCeveryone knows Myst. no one will share
T9 - 1790BCMecca builds warrior -> settler
T10 - 1750BCstack of 3 Egyptian warriors Nw-N of Medina. Move a Mp from Mecca to Medina.

Save from 1750 BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SW2_tub_1750_BC.SAV)

EDIT:
The red dot is where I'd settle for the silks. The green dot is for the western iron. The iron tiles are in the blue boxes.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SW2_Iron.JPG

This is the so-called Eastern retreat so far. Right now the AI can't get to it without declaring war since our warrior is blocking it.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SW2_E_retreat.JPG

Well, one GOOD thing is that new city will be on the coast, so we can send out a curragh to hopefully find some new contacts, that might have some techs the Indians, Egyptians, or Byzantines don't have. That's hoping for a lot, though. :(

I think we should head east as soon as possible. Much better land over there, although connecting the cities will still be a challenge.

Don't even worry about that southern iron for now. It's far enough away from all the civs that it wouldn't help them if an AI got it.

Excellent shape.

Settle right on top of the iron. The terrain around it stinks and makes fro nice defense but not much else. Putting the town on the hill gets a defense bonus, leaves no high ground for attackers, and gets two food out from the hill right out of the box.

Looks like we have found our home. Out of the marshes and into the east.

It would also allow us to make swordsman right away, without worrying about connecting it to the other cities (it's also closer to our other cities if placed on the hill, so that's one less road to make).

while it won't be on the coast, I think getting our military and city/worker problems is more important now than finding other civs and getting ahead in techs.

long term, strategic idiocy: what does the team think of our FP in the eastern retreat on the plains SE of the gems near the whales?

Got it. :)

I will play tomorrow.

long term, strategic idiocy: what does the team think of our FP in the eastern retreat on the plains SE of the gems near the whales?

Actually it may make more sense to move the whole shooting match to the east. Build a new Palace over there with an MGL.

i agree with bede
we should hole up in the eastern retreat, build a new palace there, and maybe a FP, near the choke point - but that is for much later.
the palace should be smack in the middle of our new lands, no? maybe near the warrior in tubby's post?
we could get - maybe 12 good cities out of it
(the dotmap is just a proximation, as i did it from Tubby's pic and not the game save) but you get the general drift.

roster:
soul warrior - ON DECK
bede -
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins) -
tubby rower -
zakharov - GOT IT
Iriquoisplisken - UP NEXT

I think that the eastern retreat would be a nice place to "restart". During my turns Cleo had workers running all over the place. In one of my other games, I saw Cleo leave Pi-Ramses completely undeveloped (no roads or anything) and then she decided to build a wonder in that city. I was thinking that maybe if we give her a while she could develop that area and we could swipe it out from her.

I also noticed that Theodora (Byzantines) plopped a city on the isthmus between our area and the Indian Byzantine sub-continent. They might get to the silks before us...

One more question, Since Cleo moved those three warriors near Medina, doesn't that mean that an attack is immenent?

1750(0)- zzz

IBT- Egyptian warriors split up.
Byzantines have Writing.

1725(1)- Settler moves to iron hill.

IBT- Egyptian settler pair heads out from Memphis.

1700(2)- Mecca can't grow quick enough to build a settler, so I switch to an archer.
Damascus founded on iron hill > Walls.

1675(3)- A second Egyptian settler pair is spotted.

IBT- Mecca, Archer > Spearman.

1650(4)- As required by the variant, I tell the Egyptians to withdraw. (Their settler pairs are in our territory).

1625(5)- I demand they withdraw or declare war. They declare. :ar15:
Medina switched from worker to warrior in 1.
Warrior attacks settler pair and dies, but red-lines the warrior.

IBT- Medina, Warrior > Warrior.

1600(6)- Archer kills settler pair warrior and takes 2 slaves.

IBT- Damascus warrior defeats an attacking warrior.

1575(7)- Troops moved back towards Medina. I might lose it as a warrior has appeared out of the fog.

IBT- Medina warrior defeats the attacking warrior, taking no damage.
Mecca, Spearman > Archer.

1550(8)- Workers chopping forest for a 2 turn archer.

1525(9)- Some troop movement.

IBT- 2 Egyptian warriors move next to Damascus.
Mecca, Archer > Archer
India have Writing.

1500(10)- Archer defeats warrior.
Warrior dies attacking warrior, but takes off 2hp.

Notes:

The Egyptians refuse to speak to us.

Damascus can switch, but it cannot build a warrior as it is on the iron.

I attacked the warrior outside Damscus to damage it, which should hopefully stop it from attacking.

The Egyptians only have warriors. We should build 5 archers and rush Memphis before getting peace.

The Egyptian settler pair on the mountain will settle the silks soon.

I sent the spearman to defend Medina.

We are no longer paying gpt.

Roster:

Iriquoisplisken - up next
soul warrior - on deck
bede
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins)
tubby rower
Zakharov - just played

Eek! This is scary!! :wow: I'm glad I get to watch from the sidelines.

The Egyptians only have warriors. We should build 5 archers and rush Memphis before getting peace.

I remember seeing a spear in Memphis, so take that into consideration too.

I remember seeing a spear in Memphis, so take that into consideration too.
I realise that. What I meant was that we do not need to worry about swordsmen, so we can concentrate our resources on building attacking units.

I realise that. What I meant was that we do not need to worry about swordsmen, so we can concentrate our resources on building attacking units.
Oh sorry, I'm still learning. Thanks for the clarification.

A nice archer rush, and away we go.

stick it to them Iro. stick it real badddd.
archer rush.
maybe we could rush till we hit water??? :cool:

im ready willing and able

Leave the palace where it is. When we clear the swamps, we'll have all the productive area we'll ever need. I'd rather have a sword army than a new palace.

The Egyptian settler pair on the mountain will settle the silks soon.
Thats all right, thats okay, we'll pile on the archers until it's ours anyway. (watched The Replacements over the weekend and the brain is fixated on cheerleaders, sorry):crazyeye: i.e. hit cleo with archers until she's willing to give up silk town.

Put the FP on the FP between the dot and the warrior in post 67?

Got it, can probably finish tonight.

From the sound of it, we're doing pretty good against the Egyptians.

Iriquoisplisken - got it
soul warrior - up next
bede - on deck
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins)
tubby rower
Zakharov -

regarding the FP/palace dilema. i think we can avoid this for now, as i cant see it happening in the next 30+ turns.
our real problem now is making a choice - go into military mode and get cleo, or remain defensive and settle the east like mad. i dont think we can afford to do either, unlessits wholehearted.
lets choose, war or build?
my vote is for a builder phase. we will have our UU soon, and then we can storm the world.

I rather war and prevent future problems. Until we get a worker or settler pump up, we're going to have problems. I don't see how we can get one up in 30-50 turns

Pre-turn (0) – everything looks good.

IBT – Injured warrior attacks our Archer, we lose 1 hp and promote to Elite.

1475 (1) – Medina warrior->warrior
Send warrior to defend workers from warrior. Warrior attacks barb in eastern lands, promotes and gets 25 gold.

IBT – Warrior attacks our worker defending warrior, we win losing 1 hp.

1450 (2) – Archer attacks Memphis, loses 2 hp.

1425 (3) – Cleo will talk. She’ll give Myst. and 30 gold.

IBT – Egyptians build Alexandria on Silks (not on river though). Can see Cleo move another Spear into Memphis.

1400 (4) – Mecca archer->archer. Send this archer towards Memphis (gonna need more help, plus there’s a barb near Alexandria I hope will at least weaken there defending warrior). Rush an Archer in Medina.

IBT – Cleo asks for peace. No.

1375 (5) – Medina Archer->Archer. Now Cleo and Theo have Mathematics. We could get it for peace if we include 60 gold, but I’m gonna wait till we can raze a city or two (not too long though. Don’t want Gandhi to get Math first).

1350 (6) – Nothing.

1325 (7) – Mecca Archer->Archer. D’oh! Gandhi got Math! Move Archer into position to attack Alexandria next turn. Cleo starts moving a spear into our territory.

1300 (8) – Cleo moved an Archer out of Memphis. Move a warrior out of Medina to hopefully keep him from returning to the city. Upgrade our warrior in Mecca because of the enemy spearman heading to pillage our horses, most likely.

IBT – Ha. That archer took the bait, and lost to our warrior, redlining him.

1275 (9) – Start our assault on Memphis. First archer does 1 hp. Second does 2 hp. Third wins, but loses 1 hp. Fourth wins, losing 1 hp…and we’re out of archers (just 1 redlined spear left, too). Swordsman kills spear by Mecca. Raise lux for this turn, since Swordsman left Mecca. Archer destroys Alexandria, losing no hp (finally some good luck), and gets 19 gold.
Cleo will give us Math, Writing, Myst, and 142 gold, but I’m gonna wait 1 more turn, to see if I can get Memphis (and so the next person can decide ;)

IBT – Archer attacks warrior in stack by Memphis, and dies, doing just 1 hp.

1250 (10) – Mecca Archer->Archer (next person can change if we make peace).
Attack on Memphis: First Archer attacks, dies, doing no damage…second attacks, is redlined, but wins, DESTROYING MEMPHIS! (and capturing a settler and 22 gold).
Heh, they built that city on a cow.
Move swordsman back to Mecca, lower lux back to 0%. Move warrior to protect captured workers.
Cleo will now offer 154 gold, plus a city (but sadly, we can’t except that because of the variant).

Next person can decide whether to make peace and take the gold and 3 techs, or continue, and maybe wipe Cleo off the map.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Arabia_1250.JPG

nice set IP. :goodjob:

WOW!! Great Job IP! I would have chickened out because basically I'm chicken. I haven't played this aggressively ever. But I'm learning!! :evil:

So we'll basically be up to tech parity with everyone else? My vote would be to continue if we have the units. If we couldn't take another city with the units we currently have, then I'd make peace. We need to get over to the eastern retreat before Ghandi or Theo run a couple of settle galleys over to or future home. Also we have what 4 or 5 other civs out there that could find it too.

These are just my thoughts and I think that I am in more of a trainee position than a policy maker right now. So feel free to criticize and reject my ideas as bunk.

These are just my thoughts and I think that I am in more of a trainee position than a policy maker right now. So feel free to criticize and reject my ideas as bunk.


Don't be afraid to be an idiot, Luke. Trust the force. ;) Plus I had good mentors like a venerable warrior monk with a shotgun... :lol:

My vote would be to continue if we have the unitssounds like a plan to me.

Good turns IP. :goodjob:

You have obviously done something to please the RNG gods. :D

I also think we should carry on the fight. If we stop now then the Egyptians will soon have a settler back where Memphis was. I don't think we have any chance of being first to Philosophy as we do not have the infrastructure or cities.

Don't worry about sacrificing settlers for military. The Bede04c SG showed me that it is possible to use either method to succeed.

Keep on, keeping on. Nice job Iro! :thumbsup:


If we can push Cleo back to an OCC and get the tech and the money and all that nice land to the north....

And save some for me....

WHOOPY DOO Iro.
:goodjob:
i will keep on keepin on, monk.
i hope i wont leave you any, though :cool:

got it and will play tonite

pre turn - planning to keep agressive, nothing much.

1- keep workers on clearance duty. move troops to Eliphantine. warrior in eastern heaven moves around a bit.
2- Damascus walls > worker (cant produce anything quicker). move warrior MP from medina to Mecca, freeing up the sword, which will head north.
lux up to 20 due to unhappiness. notice Byzantine settler-spear pear on top of silks. lost to us.
3- elite archer wins but is redlined to an archer. archer out of mecca, repeat.
4- nothing much. healing a bit. byzantine pair passed the silks, i was guarding, and keeps heading north.
5- lose that archer now to another archer. byzzies found Heraclea on rubble. Medina archer > archer.
6- Mecca archer > archer. lose an archer in Elephantine, but kill it with a second archer that goes E. we "liberate" 7 gold and 2 workers. our warrior kills off that earlier redlined archer.
7- Ottomans have the Oracle in Istanbul. bizzies building ToA and Colossus.
8- India has an embassy with us. i talk to cleo - she will take our peace for Myst, Writing, Math, 38g and Heliopolis. i take it as its all she has. Helio renamed to Williflip? which is immediately abandoned.
9- set sci for Currency @ 90% (-1 gpt, due in 28)
10- Mecca archer > settler, lux to 0%. Pi-ramses built in our face, missed that pair in the fog :mad: .

summary -
we are NOT YET at tech parity. Byzantines have Philo, CoL, MM and POLY. india has MM and POLY.
even Cleo has MM and POLY.
we have 382g in the bank, asking to be given in tribute. lets spend them soon.
our army is avarege with 5 warriors, 5 archers, a spear and a sword.
set sci for Currency @ 90% (-0 gpt, due in 29)

what next?

and the save

Iriquoisplisken -
soul warrior -
bede - up next
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins) - on deck?
tubby rower
Zakharov -

Got it. Play Thursday.

WE have some nice ground in the north now to claim. Might as well stay in Cleo's face and it looks a little war with Theo may be in the offing...

We can squeeze two towns in between Mecca and Pi-Ramses and use them as way stations for Arab-Egpyt War Round 2. I really want those steaks.

i talk to cleo - she will take our peace for Myst, Writing, Math, 38g and Heliopolis. i take it as its all she has. Helio renamed to Williflip? which is immediately abandoned.

Oh, we can take a city as part of a peace deal, and then abandon it at the end of the turn? Ah I see, we can't DEMAND them in trades...misread the rules. :blush:

I say we either attack Babylon and at least destroy the silk city (haven't looked at the save, so don't know how powerful they are militarily), or start expanding east.

I won't be on at all tomorrow, and probably won't get on until Saturday (have Driver's Ed Thursday and Friday :D ), so this is the last you'll see of me till then.

We can squeeze two towns in between Mecca and Pi-Ramses and use them as way stations for Arab-Egpyt War Round 2. I really want those steaks.


Beef is good, veal is better. Two cities? Not sure if the mine the dot is on is a BG?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/steaks.jpg

OR:
You thinking jungle to the NW of the beef and jungle 3 SE of the cow?

OR:
Idiots shouldn't think so much?

I was also wondering about the city we got in the peace deal. Was it offered or did you include it manually?

@Admiral - Please take the turns when we're up. I have run into some health troubles and will be undergoing testing the next few days.

Everyone's prayers would be appreciated as I'm more than a little shaken at the moment.

Sorry to hear that jb. I hope things turn out well for you.

Will do. Good luck on the RL issues. Hope to see you back soon.

JB - get well. our prayers are with you.

about that town...
while trying to max out on the peace deal, on one of the talks it was offered - or did i just look what i could get? cant remmeber really as i played very late. so i took it as tribute. lets call it a bending of the rules, which will not happen again.

1st of all: jb, good luck on the health problems. It can be very stressful. Take care of yourself and I'll be preaying for you.

Since India has an embassy can we get an alliance against Theo.
(Went back and read the rules and no we can't.)

If someone does demand tribute, we obligated NOT to give in.

We're going to have to wait 20 turns in order to go after Cleo again. We can only declare once in each age so I'm assuming that that will probably go against Theo to get those silks?

I usually give up BEFORE we get to this point so I'm curious on how the experts are going to pull us out of this one.

tubby, have faith in the omnipotent monk.... ive seen him pull out of worse situations.
and never give up. thats how you learn.

and never give up. thats how you learn.

I'm starting to learn that. I'm in 4 SG's now and I've learned a lot over the past couple of weeks. Tech trading and worker priorities mostly. It's helped me in COTM9 I started playing last night. The gag order on spoilers prohibits me from saying anything further, but I'm pretty pleased with my progress in that game. I might have a chance to make it past the Middle Ages!!

I usually give up BEFORE we get to this point so I'm curious on how the experts are going to pull us out of this one.
I'll admit that I would probably have restarted within the first 20 turns if this was a solo game (due to the terrain), but this game is going quite well in my opinion. We still have a lot of spare land to the east. It is going to take us a while to get into the lead, but I'm sure we can do it.

congrats to Zakharov for his HalfMillenial post :goodjob:
keep em coming

@Admiral - Please take the turns when we're up. I have run into some health troubles and will be undergoing testing the next few days.

Everyone's prayers would be appreciated as I'm more than a little shaken at the moment.

Hope all will be well. Mass in the chapel at noon.

tubby, have faith in the omnipotent monk.... ive seen him pull out of worse situations.
and never give up. thats how you learn.

With a lot of help from my friends!!!

And this situation is not so bad. Just push on something until it breaks our way.

@jb - hope everything goes well. :)

And yes, I probably would have restarted this game a while ago too, after seeing the terrain around us. But, I think things are looking good. We've got a lot of room now to expand, and our enemies are all pretty far away (except for Cleo, but we can take her on, I think), so there's not much danger if they were to sneak attack us.

1000-750

Truned down research on Currency as we need the cash for warrior upgrades and possible trade opportunities.

Switched the barracks build at Medina to a settler as there are not wnough decent fields to work there until some more jungle is cleared.

Damuscus finished its worker and started a temple. They are a cheap source of culture and we do want to put some cultural pressure on Egypt.

The settler out of Mecca settled Baghdad for the steaks and then the settler out of Mecca headed for the coastal rubble.

Sent an archer out of Mecca to keep an eye on the Ostland and maybe get a promotion. He gets his elite fletching for his arrows and heads back to Mecca to join the force now threatening Byzantium. The garrison sword at Mecca takes up the choke post.

Upgrade all the warriors to swords (including the regular at Mecca. He can get his veteran status hunting barbs in the east.)

Wait for the settler to finish in Mecca then go ahead and declare on the Byzantines. There is enough force waiting to take Heraclea. That could be the war that gets us to the Middle Ages or at least close.

HBR is known and on offer for 160-170g. Go ahead and buy it if you think it will help in the Byzantine war. But by the time we build the first horseman we will probably be in position to demand what ever we want from Theo for peace.

When Baghdad and Damuscus finish their temples (mosques?) then start settlers. To get this one to work we need to use a "settler spawn" instead of "settler farm". The same goes for Medina when it finishes its catapault.

Pay close attention to citizen assigments at Mecca to get maximum net income (in other words keep working the 2gpt fields). Any more than 6spt when building swords or 8spt when building settlers is just a waste of shields.

Keep research at minimum for now. Our economy won't stand for anything higher until we can start settling the Ostlands. Also be careful with trading for knowledge. The only thing we need right now is HBR and even that is not critical. We should be able to beat enough knowledge out of Theo's pretty little pouty face to get us to where we need to be.

Once Baghdad gets some fields cleared it can be another troop training city. Don't bother with barracks elsewhere until we can get decent income and productivity from cleared lands. (one of my pet prejudices is to keep native workers and slaves in separate gangs. Combining natives and slaves together usually results in wasted worker turns. Zak may be able to correct me on this though).

Picture is attached. For some reason I can;t get it into the uploads folder for in-line display. :confused:

got it. To get this one to work we need to use a "settler spawn" instead of "settler farm". The same goes for Medina when it finishes its catapault.
you mean skim around size three?

Any more than 6spt when building swords or 8spt when building settlers is just a waste of shieldsnow i'm having idiot heart palpatations, I thought settlers and swords cost the same?

slaves and native workers bother me too.

For a non-industrious civ slave workers are half the speed of natives. If you want to mix the two types in a stack you therefore need two slaves in place of one native worker.

For example, if a task takes one turn for 3 natives, you could have a stack combination of 2 natives + 2 slaves or 1 native + 4 slaves.

There will be other times when a different task will need less worker turns than the number in the stack. To prevent wasted worker turns you should always assign all of one type before the other.

It is possible to use mixed stacks but you need to be careful with them. Generally I prefer to separate natives and slaves if possible.

@AdmK, they do, but I was thinking in terms of four turn settlers with four turns yet to grow to pop6. You will be starting at pop5 with 10spt if you work all the BGs and that will get the settler too fast as you don't want the pop below four. And swords in five is just fine and can be done at pop4, I think.

And in the other towns, skimming at three is precisley what I mean until the terrain is more useful.

To all, Thanks for the notes, thoughts and prayers. Tuesday was a low point on what has been a 19 month odyssey but it seems to have clued the docs into root cause, which has eluded us this entire time. In the long run, I'll be fine.

In the short run, we need to take this continent. :)

@ jb In the long run, I'll be fine.
:band:

In the short run, we need to take this continent see below

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw2550.jpg

Built some temples since we're rel. and the monk granted a dispensation. ;)

Built a practical stone throwing device and field tested it against invading hordes.

Built Najran and Kufah on the Silk (self-explanatory). Cathy built the pyramids in Moscow.

Lots of barbs in Ostland. Almost lost a 5/5 archer to a 3/3 barb (it RL).

All in all a set of builder turns. Next player should start or get ready for a settler swarm.

BTW, I declared on Theo and burned our offensive war for this age. Heraclea slept with the fish in 650.

No trades. Will intimidate Fire Boat Woman (a second cousin of Wonder Woman) for them. Silks are hooked up. Do NOT send unescorted settlers to the east. Too many barbs.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SW02_AK_550_BC.SAV

Built a practical stone throwing device and field tested it against invading hordes.

Heraclea slept with the fish in 650.

No trades. Will intimidate Fire Boat Woman (a second cousin of Wonder Woman) for them.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SW02_AK_550_BC.SAV
A very humerous write-up. Thanks! :)

And.... :goodjob:

Give an Admiral lemons and he will make lemonade. Now for a little Jack Daniel's.....

Nice progress.

And every barbarian on the continent is probably over there in the east, so travel carefully.

Ok. I got it.

So the plan is to start settling in the east. and point-stick research Theo, correct? I might be able to play tonight but definately tomorrow.

I beg to digress with a little devils advocate type discussion...

1. yes, pound Theo. (looking over my shoulder for the PC police. That just didn't sound right..)

2. grab that iron in the south before going east (for denial purposes). The world has MM, I expect boats to start appearing.

3. thus we need to send out a settler pair to the ivory soon.

back to making lemonade :lol:

@TR,

Soulwarrior posted a pretty good dot map for the Ostlands a couple pages back. I think building along the coasts starting with the elephant farm first then moving in a counterclockwise Cxxxc or even CxxC until we have covered the coastline will work.

Your first priority, however, should be along the river to the coast SW of Kufah.

Didn't get any settlers until the last turn and I left him in Baghdad for the next player to move. The next set of turns should have at least 2 more settlers coming out of Damascus and Baghdad. Mecca & Medina can also be converted to settlers if we want to go that direction.

IT:Move vet archer from Baghdad to Kufah
T1 530BC:Najran worker -> worker
T2 510BC:4-stack is outside of the Nicaea walls...will attack next turn
moved other swords toward city just west of Damascus
IBT: Archer moves out of Nicaea
T3 490BC:turns out we had just enough in that stack.
And so the battle for Nicaea begins:
Vet sword goes at it first and takes a pre-shot from the archer then is killed by spear
Vet sword revenges his brother by killing spearno hp loss
Elite sword takes out 2nd spear no hp loss
elite archer takes out dastardly Byzantine archer lost 1 hp
we Raze Nicaea per rules of variant get one slave
make contact with Zulu warrior on the other side of Nicaea has same techs as India
IBT:Byzantine Archer kills Archer in rubble of Nicaea takes Byz Archer down to 2 hp
Indian settler pair come up in Nicaea area
T4 470BC:Byzantine spear headed to our area to destrot improvements Archer kills spear and promotes to Vet
Elite sword going leader fishing: kills archer but no leader
T5 450BC: Theo comes begging for peace and will only offer two techs (Poly & HBR). I tell her to go pound sand
India Plops a city down 1 SE of where Nicaea rubble
Mecca sword -> sword
Baghdad archer -> settler archer goes to hunt barbs in eastern district
T6 430BC:India asks us to leave their newly claimed land - we were leaving anyway
2 archers leave Caesarea
Damascus archer -> settler
Archer kills another roaming spear -> sees flame boat in bay
T7 410BC:flame boat drops off a warrior & leaves
archer takes out warrior
take out one archer with vet sword lose 1 hp
barely take out other and vet sword promotes to elite (2hp)
T8 390BC:Zulu & India have Monarchy (building Hanging Gardens)
another archer comes out of Caesarea
archer in eastern district sees a barb horse
sword takes out a spear in Caesarea, no loss of hp & no promote
T9 370BC: Byz. archer impales himself on our sword and sword gets promoted to elite
Theo will take peace CoL, Philo, HBR, Constr. for 157 G
T10 350BC: Theo is building the Great Library in Constantinople
Mecca sword -> sword
Baghdad settler -> settler
eastern archer kills barb horse & promotes to vet
As we were standing by the gates of Caesarea, we couldn't help but think, "Why not today??? Why not us?" so with just a vet and elite sword rested we decided that we would try it. And so the battle of Caesarea ensued......

-Vet sword took no damage and took out first spear
-Elite got the next spear down to 1 hp then the home-field advatage kicked in. the elite sword was reduced to one hp, then struck the spearman through the heart and took the city. Before the city was burned we managed to find 22 G in the cities coffurs and enslaved 4 workers.

Here's a quote from the victorious swordsman, "Well 'dem dang ole spears were vicious, but we kept our heads up and put theirs on 'dem dere spears!"


I left the Swordsman in Mecca and the Settler in Baghdad for the next player to decide what to do.

Available Peace with Theo:
Constr, Poly, HBR, Phil, CoL for 59 G
Constr, Poly, HBR, Phil, CoL, Lit for 220G
Constr, Poly, HBR, Phil, CoL, Lit, MM for 490G <-all techs that we can get

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw2_350bc.jpg
Save from 350 BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SW02_tub_350_BC.SAV)

Got it.

It's late so I will leave this until tomorrow. This will also allow for any comments regarding peace deals and settler destinations to be made before I play.

Another nice set o' turns. :thumbsup:

Looks like the peace deal with Theo will get us to the Middle Ages. And the opportunity to sell some stuff around, and then we can get started on our building plans for the east.

i agree,lets get some peace, get to the MA and build like mad

Iriquoisplisken - up now
soul warrior - on deck
bede - up next
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins) -
tubby rower
Zakharov - just played


BTW - good sets all of you guys, which means the Monk, the Admiral, the Rower and Zak.
Iro - dont let us down :P
cant wait to kick theos butt. (is this allowed?)

PS - will not be able to play till monday..
if IroP posts a save sooner that that, could you switch with me, bede?

Be glad to, sw. But Zak still has to play.

Yeah, it's Zak's turn now, not mine... :confused:

But if we do make peace, I suggest HBR, Lit, CoL, Philo, MM, and Poly for 73 gold, then we can trade some to Egypt for Construction, or all the techs for 491 gold (I couldn't get it down to 490).

I also suggest sending a curragh or two out from Najran. There's still 3 unmet civs out there.

all the techs for 491 gold (I couldn't get it down to 490).
I must have tried 491 then bumped it down to 490 to make sure that that was the lowest price and wrote down the wrong number

Are we playing continents? If so, then I'd say that the chances are pretty good that the other three are probably on the other one.

To avoid confusion ...

Iriquoisplisken - on deck
soul warrior
bede - up next
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins) -
tubby rower - just played
Zakharov - up now

use the settler to get the furs near the ruins of Nicea then go plant ivory town.

350(0)- Peace with Byzantines. Get all techs on offer except for Construction for 73g.
Trade with Egyptians: Get Construction for CoL, Lit + HbR.
Settler moving towards furs.

IBT- Medina, Barracks > Spear
Najran, Worker > Galley

330(1)- I spread troops out near furs to stop any settlers.
The sword from Mecca is now fortified in Baghdad.

IBT- Egyptian galley leaves Pi-Ramesses.
Kufah, Archer > Worker

310(2)- Tell Egyptian galley to leave our waters.
Troop and worker moves.

290(3)- Mecca is switched from a sword to a settler. We need more towns.

IBT- Istanbul (Ottoman) builds GLib.
Mecca, Settler > Spear
Damascus, Settler > Settler

270(4)- Both settlers are sent E.

IBT- Egyptian settler pair lands next to gems.
Barb uprising near Mecca (assumed at camp in image).
Byzantines have Currency.

250(5)- zzz

IBT- Egyptians settle Byblos next to gems.
Medina, Spear > Spear
Kufah, Worker > Settler.
India has Currency

230(6)- Basra is founded on the furs. > Walls

IBT- Baghdad, Settler > Spear.

210(7)- zzz

IBT- Adrianople (Byzantine) builds ToA.
Mecca, Spear > Settler

190(8)- zzz

IBT- Zimbabwe (Zulu) builds HG
Kazan (Mongol) builds GW
Two Egyptian settlers spotted near Pi-Ramesses.

170(9)- zzz

IBT- Egyptian galley leaves Pi-Ramesses
Medina, Spear > Settler

150(10)- Indians have settled Chittagong near Kufah.

Notes:
These were quiet turns where I concentrated on building settlers.

We can get Currency from India for 300g. The Byzantines want a lot more.

The Indians will sell us Monarchy for all our gold plus a lot of gpt. I would rather not do this though.

There are 3 swords near Damascus heading E to help disperse barbs. Move them back if you prefer.

Furs will be connected soon.

A town should be settled either W or NW of the slaves near Kufah.

In the image you can see 3 settlers being escorted. I have suggested 2 sites, but it is up for team discussion where they should go. I couldn't settle to the N as the marshland is in the way.

Roster:

Iriquoisplisken - up next
soul warrior
bede - on deck ?
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins)
tubby rower
Zakharov - just played

Got it. It's my turn in another SG, though, and I'll probably do that first, since it just started, so the turns will go quicker. Don't expect the save till sometime tomorrow afternoon.

Depending on how many Horseman there are, I'll probably settle by the horses first.

Depending on how many Horseman there are, I'll probably settle by the horses first.
Barbs are roaming, so there should be 8 plus whatever else has spawned since the uprising. If they threaten to sack one of our towns then try to buy something with our gold first.

Roster:

Iriquoisplisken - got it
soul warrior - up next (had some RL, go figure :confused: )
bede - on deck (if you insist... id rather not send in the :ninja: )
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins)
tubby rower
Zakharov - just played

@sw, insist on what?

Pre-turn – Tell Cleo to leave, but doesn’t move the galley…

IBT – Cleo moves a spear/settler pair into our territory. She just doesn’t learn, does she?
Machiavelli claims we’re 7th in his “Most Advanced Nations of the World”, below the Ottomans, Russians, Byzantines, Mongols, Indians, and Zulu…we are ahead of the Egyptians, though…oh, and a barb has come out from his home to greet us.

130 (1) – Tell Cleo to move, she doesn’t.

110 (2) – Mecca Spear->Settler. Khurasan built next to horses ->worker. Tell Cleo to move two spear/settler pairs, she finally does.
Barb stats: 10 Horseman, 2 Warriors…I think I’ll leave them alone for now…

90 (3) – zzz.

IBT – Ok, make that 11 Horses and 1 Warrior (one attacked a Swordsman, doing no damage). Did I mention they’re all on forests?

70 (4) – Decide to go for the 3 Ivory instead of the forest right next to the 12 barbs.

50 (5) – Medina Settler->Worker. Damascus Settler->Spear. Baghdad Spear->Sword.
Decide to make some trades: 286 gold to India for Currency. Currency and 455 gold to Zulu for Monarchy. We are now in the Middle Ages, and since Theo already has Monotheism and Feudalism, I start on Engineering @ 10%. We’re even with India and Zulu, 3 behind Byzantines (Rep, Mono, and Feud), and 3 ahead of Egypt (Monarchy, Philo, and Currency). Hold off on Revolution so a galley can be built.

IBT - Byzantines are building Sun Tzu’s, and they’ve completed the Great Lighthouse in Constantinople.

30 (6) – Najran Galley->Galley. I’ll wait 1 more turn for the Revolution so a settler can be built in Mecca. Attack a lone Horse on forest with Sword, lose 1hp, and promote.

IBT – Our sword is attacked by at LEAST 7 Horseman, but finally dies. He will be honored for a long time to come.

10 BC (7) – Did you know we are the only ones with Iron out of everyone on this continent? Well, did you? Almost have a road connecting us to Byzantines.
Begin the Revolution: 2 turns until we are back under control.

AD 10 (8) – Tell Byzantine Archer/settler pair to leave, they don’t. Anjar founded getting us 3 Ivory ->Worker.

IBT – A Byzantine Dromon has appeared NE of Najran…

30 (9) – We are now a Monarchy. Fustat founded across the river from the cow ->worker.

IBT – Dromon leaves (into the sea, thanks to the GL), and we get the Forbidden Palace notice.

50 (10) – Medina Worker->Sword. Finally get sight of barb camp again, and…there’s only 1 warrior there. Either those Horses are off somewhere else, or that brave Swordsman took out 10-12 Horses by himself…

There are 3 more Settlers at the North of Ostland, and another one being made at Kufah to settle the Iron.

I think we may want to attack the Egyptians again. They're starting to expand more rapidly, and they're just annoying.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Arabia_50.JPG

Iroquoisplisken - just played
soul warrior - up now
bede - on deck
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins)
tubby rower
Zakharov

Just remember we only get one offensive war per age.

well - RL got me mixed up
GOT IT
will play tommorow night

Just remember we only get one offensive war per age.

Hmm, that's right, forgot about that...although that means we can get our enemies to declare on us, though, right?

Egypt is the weakest (even weaker than us), so they'd be the least likely to declare on us. Our only other options for war are Byzantines (strongest, and most likely to declare on us), and India (forgot how strong they are, but more than Egypt). Plus Egypt is the closest, and starting to expand into Ostland (where'd that name come from, anyway?).

Ostland was what Hitler intended to call his newly conquered lands in the east, in Russia in WWII. He envisioned expansion to the east (Ostland).

Any news soul_warrior? It's been 3 days....

logs for the jihadeen 50 years to the prophet.

preturn - check out the situation. looks a ok.
1- Kufah settler > settler. it will head towards that iron. we get 25g from those oster barbs. galley starts a suicide run due east.
2- not much. road some. mine some. lose a sword to barb horses.
3- head back towards mecca with a settler, as ostland's too crowded now. made it across the ocean and see greenish borders.
4- Bizzi get the boot order for a settler pair - she will oblige. Damascus spear > cat, Basra walls > barracks, Khurasan worker > temple.
we meet the mongols. they have 15 towns & up Rep + Feud. but no horsies :D
5- another boot order for the Bizzies. They hop to our beat. Mecca archer > archer, Baghdad sword > sword, move some troops out west - maybe if we block the Bizzies
theyll slug it out with india? or us? build Aden on former barb camp, set for worker.
6- build I-ran on the iron hill. hurry over a warrior MP set 4 walls.
7- Fustat worker > temple, Medina sword > sword,
8- nothing much.
9- Ottomans build Suntzu's @ BURSA. Mecca archer > market (can be changed), Damascus cat > worker, blocked the western approaches, now lets see what happens.
10- Bizzies get another boot. starting to tire me down. Kufah settler >temple, Baghdad sword > sword.

miss press enter and Shaka wants 33g. sod off i reply. to which he says "mine is bigger than yours". were at war again.
damascus worker > worker,Najran galley > harbour,
settler out of Kufah should flop on northern side of FP? another settler in ostland, stuck on a mountain.
that lone cat near cleo is running back. oops.

techwise - even with india, up on cleo (PHI, CUR, MON), mongols are up REP, MONO, FEUD, and 'dora has us curled up with REP, MONO, FEUD and ENG.
no deals are available.

Got it.

Can't comment without pictures.

Okay war with Zulu. Check with the diplomats and they tell me Zuzlu have an RoP with Theo, so they must be coming from the west. Call up Theo and invite her participation. It costs a bunch but should take the pressure off Basra (Gems+112g+2gpt). The Zulu retaliate by inviting Cleo to the war against us. This is good as now we can finish off the Egyptians. The twons without barracks in the core get them and I start building swords everywhere.

Egptians first move is to take the little town in the east founded between Byblos and Asyut. That's okay because an arriving sword is going to be at the gates of Asyut shortly. Burn the town.

Position the catalpults, two swords and two archers to march on Thebes and two sword and two archers at Pi-Ramses.

Pi-Ramses defense whups our swords and archers and the defense at Thebes is too much also, so now I have a wounded sword, a couple of healthy archers and two cats at the gates of Thebes and nothing to march on Pi-Ramses.Kill an invading Egyptian spear at Baghdad,

Pull the garrison swords out of Basra, leaving some archers and a spear or two and head them off towards the Thebes invasion force. In the east two elite swords, one wounded, are gathering on the mountain to await reinforcement and the possible growth of Byblos before attacking.

Somewhere along in there the Byzantines get the Indians, who have been busy filling up the desert south of Mecca, into the war with the Zulu.

Khursan grows and riots and Fustat threatens to do the same so rasie the lux tax and set both towns to building settlers. I rush the settler at Fustat, and next player do the same at Khursan when it settles down. Everybody else is pretty cheerful.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw01_350AD01.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw01_350AD02.jpg

Roster check:
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov - up
tubby rower - on deck

Call up Theo and invite her participation. It costs a bunch but should take the pressure off Basra (Gems+112g+2gpt).
Are we no longer defiant? :smoke:

Great balls of fire...I booted a variant again. :wallbash: :spank:

Want me to replay?

@bede - are you sure that's incense? :lol:

It's the Slovakian Sherry left by the Slovak fillies who lived in the house this summer. <fills his glass again>

So you want a replay?

Admiral, please take this one as well. I don't have the time this evening as this is about the last thing I'm doing before bed. And I have classes after work until midnight tomorrow & Friday, Saturday from 8 to 6, a poker game and then I finish the weekend w/ class half of Sunday followed by a practical exam. I'll talk to ya'll next week.

:)

john

Rats! I just figured out that I'm missing the bball game on Saturday. Blah!

about a replay... hmmm.
i would prefer one, but lets put it to a vote.
or we (meaning YOU) Brother Bede, could remain DEFIANT to the end, deciding on your own what to do :D

if you do go for a replay - just build up? we can hold them off at the bottleneck in the west. maybe they would even oblige by moving through India and getting the other monks participation? that would be cool, and within the variant rules.

BTW - great looking position.

@ JB - for this much study time there is but one thing to do.
open up your P2P applic, search for king tubby, lee perry, augustus pablo and some bob marley. wait a few. light 'em up. :beer: and :band:
see ya later, gator

A replay would probably be best. If it was only something minor like forgetting to give a boot order then I could live with that. A 20 turn alliance is a game changing decision, as we may have faced an onslaught without it.

Replay it tonight.

Printed "DEFIANT" on a sheet of paper and pasted it to the monitor :) .

Moved every trooper we had to the west and closed the choke at Basra, then played Whack-a-Zulu. Killed everything he sent (seven warriors, six Impi and a horsemen, captured two more slaves) took only three casualties. In 340BC made peace for 36g and 4gpt. ;)

No Egyptian encroachments or alliances yet and the Byzantines stayed out of it. Rushed a bunch of temples in the East and in the towns butting up against the encroaching Indians.

Met the Ottomans in 340 off to the northeast.

Sailing galley south along the Ottoman coast.

Native workers are finishing a mine at Medina and Damascus is building a settler due in the interturn. Need to clear some jungle at Mecca and when the workers finish the jungle clearing at Damascus send across the marshes to the new town site. Split the mountain miners, 1/2 to the jungles at Mecca, 1/2 to the jungle south of Medina.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SW2_350AD.jpg

Intent of the new town site is to put increasing cultural pressure on Indians, so build a temple first. :mischief: (Yes Adm, I said temple. Might as well get this flipping thing working to our advantage.)

Something has to be done about out backwardness, probably Ancient Cavs against the Indians or maybe Byzantium.

I vote for attacking the Byzantines. For one, I think we'll be able to flip many of those Indian cities in the south. Also, Indians outnumber us in unit numbers, while we are even to Byzantines. We are actually strong vs. the Byzantines, militarily. They both have Feudalism, so they both have MDI. Also, Indians will be getting War Elephants soon. Byzantines are much more advanced than the Indians, also.

The only things are, we don't know much about how the Byzantines' land looks, or if they have Knights yet.

I think that Theo needs a thumpin' too. She's already ticked at us so it wouldn't be too much of a hit on the attitude. The Indians AFAIK are polite or cautious with us. I'm not sure that we want to tick off everyone on our continent.

Remember only one offensive war per age....

I got it. I need to think (grab your fire extinguishers). May have questions. This is number 2 so look for Saturday night or Sunday.

Might as well get this flipping thing working to our advantage.)
pun intended, I presume.

pun intended, I presume.

That's a question?

My aren't we backwards? I couldn't figure out anything to do about it so I built up the army and the cash. My suggestions for future cities are noted on the dot map. Coll. in Mecca is a prebuild for SoZ. The workers are roading like mad. If anyone really wants details, please advise and I'll post.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SW2_450.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SW2_AK_450_AD.SAV

seems like a nice thick dotmap to me Admiral.
i like my soup thick.
i will check out the save later today for more comments, if i can find any.

overall strategy could be to just hole up, and start our space infrastructure building.
we've got, what? 20 cities now? it is doable.
i would ofcourse prefer having 40 cities :mischief: but a few more should be enough.
and we can always wait for our glorious steeds to get some breathing space.

next military target? i vote Bizzies. why? because i can.

Iroquoisplisken -
soul warrior -
bede -
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins) - Admiral just played
tubby rower - your go, mate.
Zakharov - next in line.

OK I got it. I might not be able to play it tonight since my wife might need attention. Do I need to pick a fight with anyone, or are we waiting on our army to build up anymore?

Do I need to rush temples/libraries to put cultural pressure on the Indians/Egyptians?

focus on hooking up the ivory. Don't connect more than one or it might be demanded by the AI.

trade Ottomans 22gpt + 395g for monotheism
get eng. from Zulu for Mono
have to give up mono, eng, 5gpt, & 1G for Feud

Theo has Theology, Chivalry & Invention. Oh boy we are behind!!

Cleo demands gems I tell her to shove it. no DoW...she's smart

In 500AD The Mongols demanded 23G, but according to the variant I had to reject it. The Mongols have declared on us. Why does this always happen on my turns!!!

Buy Chivalry from Theo for gems, 31 gpt & 110g to prevent her from joining the Mongol Infidels
Zulu won't trade Invention for anything

520AD KT built by Mongols

buy invention from ghandi for iron

renew peace with Zulu in 540

We are still down in tech with everyone except Cleo. We are running near deficit. I think that we were receiving gpt that ran out after I made all of the trades. There are a couple taxmen here and there in some of the outer cities. We need to make sure that there is at least one scientist out there to keep research moving. Most of the AI already have gunpowder though.

Here is the city placement so far
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw2_550ad_1.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw2_550ad_2.jpg

Here is the Save from 550AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SW02_tub550_ad.SAV)

Good work.

I just noticed, we have Ansar Warrior now. How does everyone feel with building up a force and attacking Theo, also activating our GA?

And Zakharov, could I switch turns with you? I have a snow day today so I can get the turns up today, and I won't be able to play for the rest of the week.

@ Iro, those horsies would come in handy.
lets build up.
regarding the war, try to make her declare. if we declare - we will not be able to declare again till IA (a long haul).
im not near a save, but - does she have enough assets for us to take? remember we CANT keep captured cities! they must be gifted\razed.

so, after some thought, i would build up an Ansar horde with 5-8 settlers and then push Theodora.
reasonable time frame - 15-20 turns? (which will also give me a chance to bash her in a bit :evil: )

Just remember guys we are also at war with the Mongols. I don't know if we can handle a 2-sided war right now. I expect the Mongols to be coming across the straight any time now and will probably be landing in Ostland.

and will probably be landing in Ostland.


Another reason we need the 3 movement Ansars asap

And Zakharov, could I switch turns with you? I have a snow day today so I can get the turns up today, and I won't be able to play for the rest of the week.
If it's not too late now then go ahead. Either way I will play tomorrow.

If it's not too late now then go ahead. Either way I will play tomorrow.

Too late now. :( I'm going to have to be skipped until this weekend, too, unless I can get on during this week. The only way I'll be able to play is if I have ANOTHER snow day Thursday, but I'm not expecting to.

The only way I'll be able to play is if I have ANOTHER snow day Thursday, but I'm not expecting to.

Until now, I never knew Maine was the North Pole and had snow every other day :lol:

consider yourself lucky IroP.
all we have here is dry wind mixed with the occasional rain, and a bit of frost once in a while.
i miss my snow so much. :cool:
but i loooove my sunshine :D

With several gpt payments being made for longer than my 10 turns, I had to play out some very uneventful turns. Some highlights:

In 560(1) India demanded 20g. I said no as per the variant. They backed down.

In 600(5) I founded Aydab on the sugar tile circled by Tubby Rower. This was followed in 610(6) by the founding of Bayt Ras at the southern tip of Ostland.

Prior to 620(7), Mecca completed the SoZ

Between 640(9) and 650(10), the Mongols and the Ottomans signed an alliance against us. This ended our 22gpt payment to the Ottomans.

Notes:

Our land is badly underdeveloped. I produced 7 workers during my turns and there are 7 more currently being built.

No Mongol units were spotted during my turns. I issued a couple of boot orders - one to an Indian worker and the other to an Egyptian galley.

We should get our first AC in 2 turns.

Treasury: 125g, +29gpt, Gunpowder in 38 @ 0% (1 scientist).

No trades are available. We will have to wait for our gpt payments to expire before we will have anything significant to offer.

Where should we place the FP? Something can be switched to it if necessary.

Roster:

Iroquoisplisken - up next?
soul warrior - on deck
bede
jb1964 AND Admiral kutzov (part-time / stand ins)
tubby rower
Zakharov - just played

good job. Sorry I stuck you with the gpt payments. We were so far behind in techs, I thought that that was what we needed. good job though getting the workers out.

The SoZ should help defend anything that comes across the seas. We could probably go after Theo and get some pointy stick research after a few ansar warriors come out with the AC.

let's get a 2 turn worker factory somewhere and go ruin the rain forests.

Until now, I never knew Maine was the North Pole and had snow every other day :lol:

Heh, well, I never did have a snow day on Thursday, but we did get some snow. The entire winter we barely had any snow, and in the past week, we get over 30 inches (or so I've heard...), and 3 snow days! :eek:

And about the game. I believe it's my turn now? I'll have it up this afternoon, most likely.
We have to get the FP built. We are losing 63 gold to corruption alone. However, the fastest we can build it is in 28 turns...I'm thinking that if we get a leader from the war with the Byzantines, to use it on the FP. Am I right in thinking that in Conquests, it doesn't matter where the FP is built?

You want to build it in the town that has the most productive capacity and commerce.

Usually that puts it closer to the capitol rather than farther.

First of all, I'd like to ask--does anyone else think the northern part of the other continent looks like North America? :crazyeye:

Pre-turn – Rush temple in Shiraz for 44 gold. Switch Medina to FP. Besides Mecca, it has the highest production and commerce. Due in 28 turns.

IBT – Russians complete Leo’s in Moscow.

660 (1) – Damascus worker->worker. Kufah Ansar->worker. Najran worker->worker. Khurasan worker->worker. Muscat Harbor->pike. Shiraz temple->worker. Not much else.

IBT – Russia orders us to leave. Byzantines ask us to leave. Our first AC is created. Byzantines, Zulu, Mongols, Ottomans, and Indians are building Sistine. Ottomans and Mongols are building Copernicus. Byzantines are building Magellan’s!

670 (2) – Merw worker->worker. Mosul temple->market. Again, not much else.

680 (3) – Mecca Ansar->Ansar. Damascus worker->treb (we’re gonna need a LOT of these). Kufah worker->worker. Bukhara temple->treb.

690 (4) – Fustat worker->worker. Aden Ansar->worker. Fez temple->treb. Theo will now offer us any of her three visible techs for Communications with Mongols, Ottomans, and Russia, or com with Mongols, world map, and lots of gold…I’ll wait two more turns since we have a deal running out then.

700 (5) – Kufah worker->worker. Khurasan worker->worker. Merw worker->treb.
On the IBT, I saw a Byz. ship getting close to the other continent, so I decide to trade communications now.
I trade all 3 contacts for Gunpowder. Start on Chemistry since only Russia has it for now…
We have no saltpeter, but there is some outside I-ran (next to Indian Chittagong), and another outside Mansura (next to Egyptian El-Amarna).

IBT – Mongol caravel arrives off coast of Ostland.

710 (6) – Najran worker->barracks. Basra Ansar->treb.
Byzantine gpt deal ends, so we’re back up to +45 gpt. I’ll keep Chemistry at 0%. Maybe we can steal a tech if we save up?
Now Byzantines and Mongols also have Chemistry. We can get Theology from Zulu for 31 gpt and 191 gold, or from the Indians for 26 gpt and 191 gold. I’ll wait a few turns, because if the Mongols drop off some units, we may be able to get a tech along with peace from them.

IBT – Mongol caravel moves, but not to drop off units…another AC is created. Mongols are building Magellan’s. Byzantines are building Bach’s. Byzantines complete Sistine’s in Constantinople. Russians are building Copernicus’.

720 (7) – Kufah worker->worker. Baghdad Ansar->treb. Aden worker->treb. Mansura worker->Ansar.

IBT – Shaka asks for tribute…he declares! He’s also building Copernicus – scratch that, he’s completed Copernicus in Hlobane. Mongols are building Magellan’s. Byzantines and Russians are building Bach’s. A Mongol galley also appears.

730 (8) – Mecca Ansar->treb. Anjar worker->Harbor. Gandhi is offering Theology and 1 gold for Iron. I’ll wait one turn to see if he gets any more gold.

IBT – Russians are building Magellan’s.

740 (9) – Kufah worker->barracks. Khurasan worker->treb. Balkh treb->treb.

IBT – Caravel finally drops off 2 Longbows and an MDI next to undefended Muscat. :( 2 Zulu Horseman and 2 Impi arrive NE of Basra…right next to our huge stack o’ death. :)

750 (10) – Damascus treb->worker. Shiraz worker->Ansar.
Kill all 3 Mongol units, will the loss of just 1 hp.
Take out 3 of the 4 Zulu units at the loss of 1 Archer (one Impi retreated). The next person can finish off the Impi with Ansars, BUT it will start our golden age. I didn’t know if we wanted it yet, so I left him alone.
Although I didn't check trades yet this turn, I'm pretty sure the Iron for Theology trade from India is still possible, if the next person want to take it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Arabia_750.JPG

Roster:

Iroquoisplisken -well done
soul warrior - up
bede - venerable, making lists (presumably checking them twice)
jb1964 - Skipped until now
Admiral kutzov - other games finished. Too much free time. Want to play for real if nobody minds
tubby rower - wondering, "How does this affect me?" ;)
Zakharov -

got it and will play tonite.
nice work (pun intended) IroP.

do we want our GA now?
could be useful.

cant check save till tonite, but maybe ill use it to save up some cash, while mobilizing for some serious warfare?

You can drop me from the roster as it's full w/ Admiral going full time. However, I'll be glad to lurk. :D

@ jb, how are the health issues going?

@ jb - best wishes on the health issues. flee free to steal a set when it's 'our' turn. :)

JB - get well and keep on lurkin' in the free world.

A super thanks to all for your well wishes.

I am doing much better now and my neurologist seems to have zeroed in on a root cause. My episode three weeks ago was shortlived and in the long run I should do just fine.

@jb - go Illini from a fellow Big 10er. Feel free to take a set if you want to.

@ SW - no problem with Monarch GA. Let's go whack Mr. "There go my followers, I must catch up with them" (or something on that order). No jumbos.

sorry mates,
my dad was hospitalized last night,
all is ok now, but i wont be able to play till saturday @ earliest.
skip me till then if you will, please?

Sorry to hear that. :( He's ok now though? Hope everything works out well.

So I guess it's Bede's turn...unless AK still has plenty of free time, then I have no problem with him going.

Iroquoisplisken -well done
soul warrior - skipped, sorry about dad
bede - up
jb1964 - now a lurker
Admiral kutzov - on deck (unless bede lets him play)
tubby rower - wondering, "How does this affect me?"
Zakharov

I'll take it. Been wanting to try out those Ansars....

@sw, your dad's in our prayers.

glad to hear he's okay. Take your time. We got your back. :)

Something just seems very wrong with Bede having turns before me. It almost seems genetic that I should preposition forces for him in future wars...

Something just seems very wrong with Bede having turns before me. It almost seems genetic that I should preposition forces for him in future wars...

'Tis the other way around this time. But you get to answer the question:

Do we want technology or land? If it's land then go after Egypt, if it's technology go after Theo. Ghandi is a non-entity except for his culture and the Zulu are on the other side of the continent. I have positioned troops to take out Egypt.

Okay, ladies, listen up! No more regular troops, ever. If a town doesn't have a barracks it shouldn't be building troops.

Zulu attack our veteran horse that killed the wounded Imp outside Basra and we get a leader but then two more Impi kill 'em both. :cry:

After whacking a few more Zulu and kicking off our Golden Age, in 770AD

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw01_770AD01.jpg

in 790AD make a peace deal with Zulu and get Chemistry at a discount.


Then make a deal with Gandhi trading Chemistry for Theology.

In 810 ttrade Gandhi Iron for Education
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw01_810AD.jpg

And in 820 after the Mongols land a short stack of a Templar and two Maces at Damascus make a peace deal and get a discount on Banking...

And make a deal with Gandhi for Astronomy.

And in a really cheesy move, kick Temujin in the chin for traipsing and, of course, he declares war we get our gpt back and the garrison at Damascus makes short work of the Templar and Maces.

In 830 the Forbidden Palace completes in Medina.

And in 850 make a deal with Theodora for Metallurgy...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw01_850AD.jpg


We are finally caught up in required technology.

Most of the jungle has been cut so our core towns can grow.

Admiral, I have left you lots of troops to take out Egypt and a settler to rebuild on the site of Pi-Ramses or a little north, however far our cultural borders will takes us. Damascus will do a four or five turn settler rotation for rebuilding Egypt's lands. and they should drop like a house of cards. I would rather have Cleo's land than Gandhi's as it is better quality and closer to home, you know. Don't forget the two towns in the Eastern Plains (there are troops ready there, too. Have fun!

If a town doesn't have a barracks it shouldn't be building troops.

stone throwing devices aren't troops right? :devil:

I would rather have Cleo's land than Gandhi's as it is better quality and closer to home, you know.

Rules of engagement noted.

True on the stone slingers (probably should call them Pythgaoras Pitchers seeing as how it takes mathematics to build them), but there are more than one regular Ansars running around out there, not to mention the towns without barracks building troops when I picked up the game. And as soon as we capture the Saltpeter in the eastern plains you can build explosive round ball hurlers. (There ought to be a basketball pun in ther somewhere)

Note to self: read rules before playing.

Recon: Deforestation progressing well. Need salt.

860: Declare on Cleo. Raze Pi-R. Take Byblos

Cleo's "counterattack" kills an MI. Adrianople finishes Magellans.

870: Whacking Cleo's rabble of spears archers and warriors. Remember something about defiant, no taking cities, abandon Byblos. Raze El-Armana.

Mongols sign up Byz.

880: Build Suhar

890: Lose AC and Ansar killing spears in Thebes without support. Raze Thebes.

900: Peace +12g from Osman. Sell Metallurgy to Gandhi for Navigation, WM, 20g. But MT from Shaka for gems, ivory, 50gpt. Build Taif. Build Hama.

910: Raze Giza, eliminating the fragile Egyptians.

920: Upgrade trebs. Upgrade Ansars.

930: Build Tabuk.

940: Build Sana'a. Gathering the forces.

950: Pillage Byz. salt.

Built 5 cities. Eliminated Cleo. Got us in a war with the Byz. Got better horses. We're still way behind in techs. Somebody's already started Smiths. Basra has 4 cav, MI, archer, 6 cannon to take on the Byz. 4 more cav to the west of Basra. Cities are building non-culture for the most part. Shaka dropped a settler pair near the ruins of Giza, but we beat him there. The pair is still wandering in our territory aimlessly. Once Theo is done we can wipe Gandhi and then turn our attention to Shaka.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SW2_950.jpg

BC or AD? Do labels really matter? I'm tired.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SW2_AK_950BC.SAV

So Theo forgoed the 60gpt AND ivory that we were giving her for Met. to try to beat us... :lol: The AI is really stupid. Their emotions really get to them don't they.

So here is the roster and I get to take on Theo with the Cavs. Great job with the tech trades guys. If the AI wasn't so stupid then we might be still behind in techs

Iroquoisplisken
soul warrior - skipped, sorry about dad
bede
jb1964 - now a lurker
Admiral kutzov - just played
tubby rower - up
Zakharov - on deck

Hm, was I the one making reg Ansars? I don't know why I did that, I always try not to do that, usually. :blush:

Great work, both of you. I wish we could ally with the Indians, but the variant doesn't allow it. That's the last thing we need, to have them against us. :(

6 of the world's wonders are in just two of the Byzantines' cities: Constantinople (4) and Adrianople (2). Once we take those cities out, the rest of Theo's cities should go down much easier.

I just checked, and we are actually ahead of the Byztanines and Ottomans in score, and we have the highest amount of manufactured goods. We are strong against everyone except Russia (average) and the Mongols (weak), so we stand a decent chance of winning this war.

so we stand a decent chance of winning this war.


you ain't seen nothin' yet. wait until the men with the small rapid firing lead throwers show up to escort the cannons. :)

pre-turn - move cavs & cannons out of Basra
960AD - give Shaka the boot command and he declares....
dispatched Zulu musket man and took two slaves
used 5 cavs to take out Adrianople (lost 1) -> 6 slaves

990AD Zulu cavs are coming up against our Byz. strike force
Shiraz decided that they wanted to be Indian

1020AD could trade India (only civ we are not at war with) iron for Economics but didn't

1050ad raze City near furs. (I forgot the name)


Settler in Basra to fill in but didn't move because of Zulu forces coming through Theo's territory
This is getting scary. I'm not sure that we can keep this up. We are falling behind in techs and are at war with everyone except India. Mongols will take peace for 40G and Russia will take peace for 20G. But I think that the variant will prohibit us for having to pay for peace.....

The Zulus, Russians, and Mongols are sending in caravels with 3 units in each one. We need to keep some troops stationed in the core to prevent them from running over us.

save from 1050AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SW02_tub_1050_AD.SAV)

screenies to for A-K
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw2_1050_1.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw2_1050_2.JPG

Oh yeah I forgot to mention. Theo has Riflemen now so we know what her free tech was (Nationalism).

Got it.

(10 chars).

dad's a ok now.
im back in biz.

great moves tubby.

will await my turn.

1050(0)- Look around. Change preferences to my liking.

IBT- Zulus kill our slave stack (in TubbyRower's image).
Darhan (Mongol) builds Bach's.

1060(1)- Kill some stray units in our territory of various nationalities.
We do not have the military for a prolonged assault, so I will sign some peace deals.

Peace with Byzantines: Get Physics + 6g +WM.
- this breaks 2 MAs against us, so it should be easier to get peace.
Peace with Mongols: Get 120g.
Peace with Ottomans: Get 32g + WM.
Peace with Russians: Get 40g.
The Zulus refuse to see us.

We are way behind in tech so I will do some brokering.

Trade with Mongols: Get Magnetism for Ivory + Gems + Saltpeter + 118g + WM.
Trade with Ottomans: Get ToG + PP + MusicT for Magnetism + Iron + 180g.
Trade with Indians: Get Republic + Economics + 14g + WM for ToG + Ivory.
Trade with Russians: Get 317g for Ivory.
- overall we have gained 6 techs.

The lack of commerce under Monarchy is killing us. REVOLUTION. We are Religious, so anarchy is 2 turns.

IBT- Byzantines demand that we move. Done.
Tugela (Zulu) builds Smith's.
Novgorod (Russian) builds Shakespeare's.

1070(2)- zzz

1080(3)- A new Republic government is formed.
Tiles are reassigned.
Science off for now as we have more markets than libraries.
I set several core cities to build libraries.
Luxuries to 10%.
Some obsolete MP units are disbanded.
Earning +228gpt.

1090(4)- zzz

IBT- Moscow (Russian) builds Newton's.

1100(5)- Yamama founded on the furs > Temple.
I rush some border temples/libraries for culture.

1110(6)- Peace with Zulus: Get 27g + WM.
- we are at peace with everyone.
Luxuries to 20%.

1120(7)- Riyadh founded near Mosul > Harbour.

1130(8)- Several libraries rushed.

1140(9)- zzz

1150(10)- Core libraries are finished.
Science to 50%. Medicine in 14 (for monopoly).

Notes:

We have gone from a crippled Monarchy to a flourishing Republic. We need more cities size 7+ asap though.

Musketmen are being built to defend our border cities.

We are poorly defended at the moment, but I felt we needed a few turns of infrastructure building. Once the markets/aqueducts etc. are finished, we can build up a quality military and disband the obsolete units.

Yamama will expand next turn.

We could trade some gpt (about 75 I think) and a couple of luxuries to the Ottomans for Steam Power. We would have to turn down the science rate to do this.

Most of the World Map has been revealed.

Treasury: 602g, +7gpt, Medicine in 14.

I think we should attack the Indians once we build up our military. We need to remove their 4 cities in the middle of our territory. Once they are gone we should be all set to develop our core for building our SS.

Roster:

Iroquoisplisken - up next
soul warrior - on deck
bede
jb1964/Admiral kutzov
tubby rower
Zakharov - just played

Nice job Zak. Defiant takes it's toll doesn't it? ;)

I'm quite comfortable with defiant as I play like that normally. Our main problem has been poor land, but that is changing as the jungles and marshes are almost cleared.

Once we get rails down I think we should be able to accelerate our production greatly. We have a nice amount of territory, we just need to start using it.

lemme at 'em.... argghhh.... i'll beat 'em all.
still waiting my turn...
argghhhhhh.

great work Zak. since we're now in the Industrial Age, does that mean we only play 5 turns each (still new to this SG thing)?

SW, you can play before me, if you think you can finish by sometime tomorrow. Otherwise, I'd prefer to go now during my 1 or 2 days off (depending on whether I get ANOTHER snow day tomorrow :D )

great work Zak. since we're now in the Industrial Age, does that mean we only play 5 turns each (still new to this SG thing)?

SW, you can play before me, if you think you can finish by sometime tomorrow. Otherwise, I'd prefer to go now during my 1 or 2 days off (depending on whether I get ANOTHER snow day tomorrow )

Usually the decision to play 5 or 10 is yours, no hard and fast rule. So you'll be in school until July based on the weather forecast? :lol:

@ IroP - i can play and will finish soon (about 5pm gmt) or so.
and play as long as you feel like it. try to make it a round number, but if it get s too long, pass it on. i usually pass it on after 2 hours or so, it might be 10, or 15 or 5.

anyway got it, will post in 18 hours or so.

We are poorly defended at the moment, but I felt we needed a few turns of infrastructure building. Once the markets/aqueducts etc. are finished, we can build up a quality military and disband the obsolete units.

i agree


We could trade some gpt (about 75 I think) and a couple of luxuries to the Ottomans for Steam Power. We would have to turn down the science rate to do this.

will check out save, but i think i will, i REALLY love railroads

I think we should attack the Indians once we build up our military. We need to remove their 4 cities in the middle of our territory. Once they are gone we should be all set to develop our core for building our SS.

i will DEFINITELY do that (under our rules that is ;)

Roster:

Iroquoisplisken - up next
soul warrior - playing now
bede
jb1964/Admiral kutzov
tubby rower
Zakharov - just played

SW2-1150ad-sw

pre turn - nada

1- mosul musket > cav,
2- ottomans want 80gpt, 480g, furs and ivory for steam. i wait.mecca musket > cav,
3- mansura court > settler.Aydab court > cannon,
4- zulu and bizzies sign a MPP. india invades with workers, i work by charms, and they we go soon.
5- medina musket > cav, Fustat lib > cannon, Fez court > settler, Merw musket > cav, indian workers still inside and "will move soon" move some MDI's towards action while replacing with some muskets.
6- Kufah musket > settler, disband a few pikes.
7- Mecca cav > cav,
8- Mosul cav > cav, i grow tired of ghandi's " i will, i will" and i notice he has STEAM, can we say "RAILROADS"?
i take some prize slaves.
i take SHiraz and keep (it was our once, no?), Ganges is taken and razed,
9- 'dora demands we move, and i oblige. Damascuc market > cav, Kufah settler > cav, Baghdad market > cav, Khursan aqua > cav, Muscat lib > aqua, i take DACCA and raze.
10- we have about 4-5 phants and a couple horse in our land now, Najran aqua > musket, Fustat & mansura start cannon,
get and raze Chittagong,

we got the 4 cities, have 2 settlers enroute, some indians near home but got some defenses up, they wont talk yet.
moved lots of workers out of harms way.

enjoy the rest of the war, and get steam from them for free.

and the save follows

ooh, and IroP? i guess i managed to keep to my deadline by a whole 6 minutes :D
youre up. kick some indie but (dont be impolite :) )

Got it. I don't know if I'll be able to play a full ten turns, but I'll do as much as I can. Maybe I'll just do 5.

Pre-turn: Why do you have those workers roading those squares? We can settle right there without clearing the rubble.

Bukhara will be captured during the interturn, but I don’t see anything I can do about it.

IBT – Our MDI in Bukhara kills an Elephant, but is redlined and dies to a Horse. :( The Indians capture Bukhara and 18 gold.
A phant kills a Musket in Fez, and a 2 Horses are killed by one of our cavs there, promoting it to elite.

1255 (1) – Aden aque->cav. Aydab cannon->cannon.
New Mecca is built ->cannon. There are now 4 War Elephants, and a warrior in our borders, plus another phant and a longbow East of Hyderabad, plus I think there’s just one phant guarding Bukhara.
Attack Bukhara with a vet cav, and win losing no hp. Still a 3/4 horse, though. Kill it with a 3/5 Elite cav, losing 2 hp. I think the rules allow us to keep Bukhara, since it is technically our city. Start on barracks.
Bombard the stack of 3 phants and the warrior, and kill it along with the 2 phants SW of Fez, and a 2 phants just outside our borders (one in Byzantine land), losing just one MDI (redlining a few units, though).
Rush a market in Basra. Give Russia Ivory and Gems for 34 gpt.

IBT – The cav by the Byz. borders is killed.
Tabuk riots (whoops…).

1260 (2) – Mecca cav->cav. Medina cav->musket. Basra market->cav. Merw cav->cannon.
India will now speak to us, but won’t give us anything.
Rush a barracks in Bukhara. Move a stack of 8 cannons and 4 cavs towards Hyderabad, with a few more cavs in range to attack next turn if needed (and since we’re against rifles, they will most likely be needed). Medicine due next turn.

IBT – One cav kills a phant, no loss, another is redlined, then promoted, and another is killed. A cav in Shihr is killed doing no damage to the attacking phant.
Order restored in Tabuk.

1265 (3) – Medicine->Sanitation (due in 12 @ 50%, +7 gpt). Hama harbor->lib. Bukhara barracks->musket. Fez settler->barracks.
Now let’s see what Medicine can get us:
Medicine to Russia for Nationalism, 52 gold, and 12 gpt (wow!). We can get peace, Steam Power, 9 gold, 15 gpt, and both maps just for Medicine from Gandhi. I think I’ll wait till the end of the turn to see how our attack on Hyderabad goes.

Battle for Hyderabad: Cannons redline a reg rifle, and injure the other (there’s at LEAST one more phant there too). First cav attacks, is injured by a longbow, but otherwise is unscathed. 2nd is redlined by a phant. 3rd is killed doing 2 damage and promoting another phant, but that is the strongest unit now. 4th is killed doing 0 damage to the phant! 5th kills the phant, taking 2 damage. Now a reg spear is showing. We have at least 1 spear, 1 longbow, and a redlined rifle left. The spear is killed, with our cav taking no damage. Rifle is killed, promoting our cav who took no damage! Just a longbow left, I hope! I will use a 3/5 Elite Ansar, and we raze Hyderabad!

India will now take the same, except only 12 gpt (since they lost a city, and gpt). I take peace, which is good because Shihr would not have lasted another turn. I move the settler in Fez to the former location of Hyderabad, who will settle next turn.
Our first railroad section is finished.

…Soul_warrior, did you break a deal with India when you declared war? No one will except any luxuries in our deals? We might have been able to get Electricity if they trusted us. :(

Trade Medicine to the Byzantines for Democracy, both maps, 12 gold, and 14 gpt.
Trade Medicine to the Mongols for Free Artistry, Wines, 24 gold, and both maps.
Current tech stats:
India: up Fascism
Zulu: up Electricity and Fascism, down Medicine
Mongols: up Fascism
Ottomans: down Nationalism and Medicine (they are in last place for techs…probably since they’re only 2 cities…)
Byzantines: up Electricity and Fascism
Russia: up Communism, Electricity, and Fascism

Those wines really helped us. Lower lux to 20%, and raise Sci to 70%. Sani due in 9 turns + 2gpt.

1270 (4) – Taif aque->market. Our people want to build the Iron Works! …now, where? Mosul cav->bank. The Iron Works city is Damascus. Switch from cav to get it in 25 turns. Found Dabaredyh (Hyderabad backwards :goodjob: ) ->library.

1275 (5) – Fustat cannon->bank. Not much this turn (nice change of pace, actually).

There’s one settler 1 space away from some rubble, its destination. Another is being built in Fez. Sanitation is due in 7, which should get us some more trade opportunities. You might want to rush the library in Dabaredyh to prevent a flip.

Wish I could’ve played more turns, but it’s already 7 pm here, and I have school tomorrow. :cry:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Arabia_1275.JPG

I have school tomorrow

what, it's not snowing? :lol: wait til you grow up and have to think of legit reasons to stay home and play civ. ;)

Nice work, gents. I've forgotten what the objective is here? Are we going for Space?

@AdmK, You mean like I did yesterday?

Got it.

IIRC, we're defiant and have to get "good" deals. Don't think anyone has talked about VC.

@bede - have you cleaned out the PMs or are you still getting fan mail on SV and M7+1? hopefully one of the mailees appreciates mudbats... :lol:

:good job: IroP, just one question? you go to sleep at 7PM???? ;)
about the deal - no, didnt break anything, i double checked.

our Victory Conditions are SPACE (as we leave till planet to found New Arabia) or CONQUEST (we are the only ones left standing).

regarding re-capturing arab cities, those we can keep, as we are freeing them form enslavement by unbelievers. we can keep flips to us, but cant keep foriegn cities that fell to us.
if an AI declares on us... woe to them, as we will bring death to thier homelands, at our discretion (sounds eerily familiar..... grrrrr)

bede -
Iroquoisplisken - just played
soul warrior - loving nice round countries
bede - do some of your magic ****
jb1964/Admiral kutzov - designing some future railways **
tubby rower - dreaming of babylon
Zakharov - riding a magic carpet for now

about the deal - no, didnt break anything, i double checked.
You declared war on the Indians whilst we were sending them Ivory. Check out the trade on turn 1 in my turnlog.

We now have no rep, but at least that means we can do whatever we want now. :satan:

You declared war on the Indians whilst we were sending them Ivory. Check out the trade on turn 1 in my turnlog.

We now have no rep, but at least that means we can do whatever we want now. :satan:

well, like they say "god is in the details", and me being a devout atheist, should have checked 1 more time.
well, i guess its to hell i'll go. (or space...)
i guess its uni building time now.

i guess its uni building time now.
Definitely. Self research is the only way to go now.

another point that just came to mind is that they are hereitcs. as such thier knowledge is tainted. we cant rely on "western" knowledge, so we must make our own pathway to the stars.
maybe i was deep in-role.... :D

My understanding of a trashed rep is that if a per turn deal (gold, resource or lux) is broken then all other per turn deals are out of the picture from then on. IroP made some gpt deals, so our rep shouldn't be trashed....

well, maybe they just grew a disliking to our camel riding, smelly, desert turbans?

we will deal with it and make do, as i am not going to let some technical point lose us the game.
if they wont deal.... the will deal.... or else.... :evil: :satan: :evil:

Maybe the civs on the other continent haven't met the Indians yet to hear of our treachery.

what, it's not snowing? wait til you grow up and have to think of legit reasons to stay home and play civ.

For once, nope, no snow. And is that so? I'd better start thinking, then. ;)

IroP, just one question? you go to sleep at 7PM????

Heh, no. I EAT at 7. :) I go to sleep around 9 or 10. In between then, is T.V. (and homework).

and about the deal break. yes, we definitly broke a deal with India. Theo wouldn't accept Ivory for a tech "after what we did to the Indians". Test it out on the save. I'm guessing that the deal was good enough that they let it slide this time?

Finish tonight.

Can extort Communism out of Mongol's hide, and will need to get Espionage out of some else's soon, or else research it ourselves. Do we want a People's Republic?

Russia is becoming a scientific monster (just started ToE). I think we are going to need the KGB and SMERSH to stop them getting to Alpha Centauri before we do.

Any consensus?

the APR (Arabian People's Republic) should be declared.
we need to slow cathy down, by whatever means possible.
do we want to keep on taking bites out of our neighbours?

What are the chances of getting the Mongols into a war with Cathy. That would cut her science budget a bit. I haven't looked at a save in a while, How far behind are we?

I agree on the espionage. If we have to research it so be it. We could probably sell it around to help catch up in techs too. I'm not too experienced with stealing techs so I'm not sure how advantagous it is.

I'm going to be gone all next week up to Chicagio for work so skip me until I check back in.

What are the chances of getting the Mongols into a war with Cathy. That would cut her science budget a bit.
I don't think this will be possible because the variant stops us from signing alliances.

the APR (Arabian People's Republic) should be declared.
we need to slow cathy down, by whatever means possible.
do we want to keep on taking bites out of our neighbours?

Lenin's on the train.

And yeah we should bite off whatever we can whenever we can. Got a few per turn deals to get through first.


I agree on the espionage. If we have to research it so be it. We could probably sell it around to help catch up in techs too. I'm not too experienced with stealing techs so I'm not sure how advantagous it is.


Communist spies can steal your way to heaven. They are also really useful for sabotaging wonder work and spaceship parts. See Sid Vicious and the Magnificent7+1 for what Commie spies and tech theft can do for you.

I don't think this will be possible because the variant stops us from signing alliances.
forgot about that....Could we just declare on her and then hit the boats that she sends across the channel?

Hit up Russia and collect 35gpt, and 30g for our extra coal.

In 1295 learn Sanitation and sell it to the Russians for 746g+93pgt.

Then go beat on the Mongls for Communism and get it for "only" 155gpt. Then sell him hospitals for 6g+58gpt. But the net cost for Communism is way less than -672g if I don't count the cost of self research on Sanitaition.

The Russians start Theory of Evolution.

In 1300 I pry Electricity and 80g+12gpt out of Theodorable for Communism and Sanitation. And set a course for Industrialization so we can get to Espionage. The revolution is delayed until the Iron Works (Damascus would make a great SPHQ city) finishes and we learn Espionage in 15 turns or so.

In 1510 Industrialization shows up around the world....so who haven't I threatened recently...Theodorable makes a good choice. And here's the deal:

I forgot to take a picture but it was all our spare luxes plus 6gpt after threatening war. The luxes will make her economy even stronger so when we go to war with her there will be just that much more to be gained.


Nothing else of note has happened. The workforce is primarily concentrated on the core cities to boost prouctivity there first. The rail net is complete to the Byzantine and Indian frontiers except for Shihr. The Ostlands are not fully connected, though.

The seven most productive cities are building factories, most of the others are working on commercial-enhancing or corruption reducing buildings. The rail gangs could stand a little optimization,

Now that I think on it selling coal to Russia probably set our course towards Conquest rather than Space as it really gassed up her economy. Nonetheless if we can take over our piece of the world we will be able to out-produce her in the longer run. It is going to take some serious management of the mix of specialists to do it but it is do-able...We will need the rest of the continent, though.

I'm going to be headed out to Chi-town in RL Monday through Thursday of next week so I'll be MIA. I'll try to stop in and give comments where I can. So skip me until I check back in later next week

Iroquoisplisken -
soul warrior -
bede - just gone
jb1964/Admiral kutzov - up now
tubby rower - MIA till escapes ChiTown
Zakharov - preparing the revolution

got it - fix rail gangs, conquest something

We seem to be giving peace a chance. Before I can do any damage on my own, one of our coal sources exhausts. :mad: Since we're trading the other to Cathy, all those workers have nothing to do. :rolleyes:

For some reason, I built an embassy with Cathy. Then I bought coal from Shaka (for Sanitation, 7gpt, ivory) so the workers wouldn't be standing around. Increased my allowance by dropping science to 10%.

Lots of working on the railroad.

In 1340, the Byzantive - Zulu Mutual Defense Accords aer signed. :eek:

Draw saber, begin to cackle gleefully and ... decide to keep giving peace a chance. :crazyeye: Buy Scientific Method from Shaka for Industrialization and 126g (he wouldn't consider any amount of gpt; is our rep. blown?) Then buy RP from Gandhi for Industrialization and Scientific Method. Everyone else is building ToE, so I send out the State Department to investigate some cities. Ugly is building ToE in Karalorum (39 turns). Cathy building it in Krashnoyarsk (111 turns). And Theodarable must be a direct ancestor of Jessica Simpson since she's displaying the family intelligence by building ToE in Dyrrachium (157 turns). :confused: Send an MI to Mecca and disband it. Then rush a coal plant. Fez built a settler that was sitting around with nowhere to go, so it went to Mecca and joined the bright lights of the big city. Mecca at size 12 doing 46gpt pre-coal plant. Some of the native workers get restless, so two of them go to Medina to get it to 12. Rush the Medina Industial Complex. MM the whole shebang, employing cops and CE. "Pump" up the research to 30% (spies in 4). Bam. Hit self on head while waving saber. Saber breaks, start :cry: painfully. Move on.


Disband MI in Medina then rush coal plant. Following the usual modus operendi, join 2 workers to get Damascus to size 12.

Lots more working on the railroad.

Disband another MI, this time in Damascus. Rush another coal plant.

After staring at screen and not seeing any moving pictures, renew peace with Gandhi in 1365.

Momentarily blackout after the saber waving incident, have riots due to loss of wines deal.

Spies Like Us are here. Drop research to zero and start looking for those Atom things. Renew peace with Cathy as I can't see a transoceanic invasion in our immediate future. Realize the saber incident has depleted the counting skills and that I've gone past the fingers and toes. Stop. lots of moves left in 1390.

Holding for completion of ToE to revolt. Medina can switch to Hoovers when ToE is in.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sw2_1390.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SW2_ak_1390_AD.SAV

Good work. I never thought we'd get ToE! :crazyeye: *knock on wood*

And just to make sure, those are mines in the screenshot, right?

And just to make sure, those are mines in the screenshot, right?

We have mines? :lol:

Got it.

Are there any improvements I should cash rush before the switch to Communism?

Are there any improvements I should cash rush before the switch to Communism?

Nothing urgent. I was saving the cash for upgrades or later use in spying.

My thoughts on the "Big 3": ToE finishes in Mecca. Medina immediately changed to Hoovers. Mecca starts CIA. When Hoovers is in, switch Damascus to SPHQ and then revolt. I didn't calculate it all the way out. You'll need to keep an eye on Damascus to make sure the palace doesn't build before we switch.

Once we get Hoover, don't forget to sell all the coal plants. Global Warming has already started, and we don't want to contribute to it any more than we have to.

That map looks a lot different since last I played.

Looks good. oh and yes A-K our rep is shot. Happened a page or two back.

Since Zak already has it I'll just spectate today and tomorrow. The I'm off to the windy city.

1390(0)- Some obsolete units are disbanded or upgraded.
I do some MMing.

1395(1)- Russia have Atomic Theory.
Worker moves.

1400(2)- zzz

IBT- Mecca builds the ToE > Int. Agency
We discover Atomic Theory and Electronics.

1405(3)- Medina switched to Hoover in 5.
As Russia already has AtomT, I decide to trade it.
Trade with Mongols: Get The Corporation + Wines + 26g + WM for AtomT.
Luxuries down to 10%.

Without our rep, I can't get any more favourable trades (as required by the variant). I would have to virtually give away AtomT.

Researching Steel in 12 @ 60%. (Russia have Refining).
I switch some builds to Universities. With no rep we need to do our own research.

1410(4)- Two more civs now have Refining.
I cancel our per turn payments to the Byzantines.
Science to 70%.

1415(5)/1420(6)/1425(7)- Worker moves.

IBT- Byzantines ask for MPP + ROP. Variant says no. (I would have said no anyway).
Medina builds Hoover Dam > University.

1430(8)- Coal plants sold.
Our territory is now fully railed.
REVOLUTION!!!
Empire MMed to manage happiness.
I cancel our per turn deal with the Zulus.

IBT- Ottomans land a Sipahi in our territory. (I had been issuing boot orders to the galleon).

1435(9)- I tell the Ottomans to withdraw. They say yes, but it isn't an auto boot.
I move some troops/cannons to defend the three cities it can reach in 1 turn.
I don't declare as the reverse WW will be useful.
Russians and Mongols have Electronics. I can't trade it for Refining, it's not valuable enough.

IBT- As expected, the Ottomans declare war. :ar15:
A cannon removes a health point, then an infantry is unscathed as it forces the Sipahi to retreat.

1440(10)- We are now under a Communist government.
Damascus switched to SPHQ in 1. (Wasting over 500 shields).

Elite Cavalry attacks red-lined Sipahi. Wins with no damage > LEADER :dance:

Luxuries to 0% with no MP units needed.
Steel in 6 @ 80%.
Workers are mining grassland around border cities now that corruption is communal.

Notes:

We need to build up our military.

The leader is waiting in Mecca. Should it form a Cavalry army? The elite* unit is in Shihr.

SPHQ in 1. Int. Agency in 2.

Worker jobs are almost done. I think the slaves will be enough, so we could join the natives to low pop cities if we want.

Our first target in the next attack should be the Byzantines for their spices. As we have no rep we can sneak attack.

Roster:

Iroquoisplisken - up next
soul warrior - on deck
bede
jb1964/Admiral kutzov
tubby rower
Zakharov - revolution complete

Nicely played. I switch some builds to Universities. With no rep we need to do our own research Not as communists we don't. We can drop research to zero (or reseach at min the less trodden techs) and use our spies to steal everything. Definitely join the native workers to cities if worker jobs are almost done. Get ready to clean up pollution. Need to get spies out to all the civs asap.

Fair enough. I've only completed three or four so far and the rest can still be changed (stock exchanges?).

I feel pretty confident we can steal our way to tech parity if we can build up enough cash. We can turn the research down now, steal our way back, in the meantime pointy stick assorted trades. Once we hit a certain level, we can turn on the research again and go for the SS. Get ready to rumble, this is gonna be a blast with the unit support we get and the production of the Big 3.

@ bede - you agree?

I have no dispute with sneak attacks since the rep is shoot, but with spies and immediate steals we now have the power to force war.

I feel pretty confident we can steal our way to tech parity if we can build up enough cash. We can turn the research down now, steal our way back, in the meantime pointy stick assorted trades. Once we hit a certain level, we can turn on the research again and go for the SS. Get ready to rumble, this is gonna be a blast with the unit support we get and the production of the Big 3.

i couldnt have said it better

I have no dispute with sneak attacks since the rep is shoot, but with spies and immediate steals we now have the power to force war.

i am not partial to sneak attacks. lets make them come a get it instead.

I feel pretty confident we can steal our way to tech parity if we can build up enough cash. We can turn the research down now, steal our way back, in the meantime pointy stick assorted trades. Once we hit a certain level, we can turn on the research again and go for the SS. Get ready to rumble, this is gonna be a blast with the unit support we get and the production of the Big 3.

@ bede - you agree?

I have no dispute with sneak attacks since the rep is shoot, but with spies and immediate steals we now have the power to force war.

No harm in having the universities as it gives us the flexibility for research when we need it. And we are going to as the AI does a lousy job researching the SS techs.

Don't particularly care for the sneak attack tactic, much prefer the starighforward way of extortion and attempted theft to force war when the time comes.

@Admk, nice job pulling off the Hoover Dam/ToE parlay. I had given up on the one (T0E), figuring we could steal our way to the other.

Got it. Will play tomorrow.

I'll most likely change most universities to stock exchanges for now. more money = more steals.

Decided to play 10 turns since I had the time (you guessed it--snow day :twitch: )--and because I wanted to play more of the war--yep, that's right. Read on to find out how it all happened (ok, I'll stop with the weird storyteller talk).

Pre-turn – Turn leader into a cav army (we are now even to the Byzantines militarily, so I think we can handle an offensive war). Switch Medina from Uni to bank (both take 4 turns). There’s only one other university being built, and it is due next turn, so I just leave it. MM Mecca to get Int. Agency in 1 turn (we’ll lose 4 food, but it wasn’t growing anyway).

IBT – Renew Gems and Ivory for 34 gpt deal with Russia. Byzantines and Ottomans sign a trade embargo against us…ok now Theo is definitely the next to go! :mad:

1445 (1) – Taif police station->bank. Mecca Int. Agency->uni (keep it in the same citizen config, since we’ll get it a turn earlier without starving). Damascus SPHG->hospital. Baghdad infantry->bank. Basra Pol. Station->uni. Khurasan factory->library. Balkh uni->aque. Mosul infantry->hospital.

Join some workers into cities, and fortify the rest in Medina and Merw.

Plant a spy in Constantinople for 75 gold. Theo has: 4 workers, 6 rifles, 1 cav, 26 infantry, 2 galleons, and 2 guerillas. Upgrade 11 cannons for 1320 gold.

1450 (2) – Shihr market->library. Hama court->library. Merw infantry->hospital. Everyone now has Refining.

Trade India Atomic Theory for Refining, 21 gold, 2 gpt, and both maps.

IBT – Byzantines and Ottomans sign a military alliance against us…well that’s just great…Theo does nothing during her turn, though… Pollution strikes Khurasan.

1455 (3) – Damascus hospital->cav (one turn cavs). Kufah infantry->hospital.

Use most of the workers in Merw to clean up the pollution by Khurasan.

Capture a worker just inside Byzantine territory. Move the Army, 12 Cavs (some Elite, most vets), 12 Artillery, and 2 Infantry towards Constantinople.

IBT – Theo moves a cav, an infantry, and a rifle into our territory. Pollution strikes Suhar. Russians complete Uni Suffrage in Orenburg.

1460 (4) – Mecca uni->cav. Medina bank->hospital. Damascus cav->cav. Khurasan library->artillery. Fustat police station->hospital. Bukhara library->bank.

Bombard the infantry with 3 cannon, taking 2 damage off. Attack the cav with vet cav, and are redlined, but promote.

Battle for Constantinople: Bombard and take off a total of 4 hp…and there’s still a full health vet infantry showing. I decide to do an investigation of Constantinople: 6 vet infantry (4 are 3/4), 2 reg infantry, and a conscript. 25 spt (infantry in 2 turns, 3 turns per infantry total). It’ll grow to size 14 in 3 turns. 175 gpt in this one city! If we take this out, it will cripple Theo’s economy. Theo must be getting rubber from the Mongols (only civ she has an active trade with according to the Foreign Advisor), and is probably paying them gpt. I was considering a siege, but it’s a coastal city, so unless we get a boat to stay in the coast square, it won’t work. She only has two galleons, but it would take a long time to get a boat there. RETREAT! We are attacking Nicomedia instead, so we can make a boat. I plan on attacking next turn, so we won’t have artillery to use, but oh well.

Steel due next turn, with +125 gpt.

IBT – Theo moves an infantry OUT of Nicomedia, and retreats the one I bombarded in our territory last turn…whatever. Pollution hits Mosul.

1465 (5) – Steel->Combustion. Damascus cav->infantry. Baghdad bank->infantry. Najran pol. Station->bank.

Bombard 3 units to redlined, as well as cut off some spices, and a road around Constantinople (never too early to get started on the siege).

Battle for Nicomedia: The strongest unit is a reg infantry. :) Although it is now size 12. Army wins, unscathed. Army attacks again, loses 5 hp…a conscript showing now. Use an Elite to win, losing 3 hp, but capturing Nicomedia (and 7 workers)! We raze it. Switch Shihr from a Library to a settler, due next turn.

Kill all but an infantry in our territory.

Now for trades:
Trade Russia Steel for Ironclads, 522 gold, 60 gpt, and both maps (wow!).
Trade India Steel for Fascism, 39 gold, 1 gpt, and both maps.
We are now ahead of everyone except Russia (and probably Byzantines), who we are tied with.
Bring Science up to 80%, Combustion in 10, +57 gpt.

IBT – Theo brings another infantry into our territory, moves the other closer to Basra (undefended), and a few other troops on the border. Our people want to build the Heroic Epic and Military Academy. The people love us! We can either get some trees out front, some sphinx statues, or a building out in the back. I like sphinxes.

1470 (6) – Mecca cav->Heroic Epic (4 turns). Shihr settler->settler (might as well build one now). Damascus infantry->cav. New Medina harbor->market. Shiraz aque->library. Merw hospital->bank. Everyone is now equal in tech except Zululand (behind us by Electronics), but we don’t know what Byzantines and Ottomans have. Hmm, I thought no one had enough to trade. :(

India doesn’t have Iron, Oil, Saltpeter, or Rubber…must have a LOT of Guerillas.

Settle New Damascus->Galleon. We’ll have to wait at least 5 turns for it to grow before we can rush. We also have spices in our borders now. Send the 7 captured workers there to road it up.

Send all remaining rifles to Damascus for upgrade. Might as well use the extra money for something, if we can’t rush with it.

Before I end the turn, I decide to try some spy planting.
Plant a spy in Delhi for 80 gold.
Try to plant one in Ereen (Ottomans), but he was caught and killed…I think I’ll stop there.

IBT – We now have a total of 4 units (3 infantry, 1 rifle) in our territory.

1475 (7) – Damascus cav->infantry. Baghdad infantry->artillery. Dabaredyh library->market. Khurasan artillery->artillery. Anjar harbor->artillery. Mansura police station->library. Mosul hospital->harbor. Aydab library->artillery. Riyadh aque->market.

Attack on Amorium: It is so close, we can fire on it from inside our territory! Only 2 shots are needed to redline all defenders (at least, all I can see…). Army loses 3 hp killing the redlined conscript. An Elite kills the last defender, unhurt. We get a whopping 2 gold, as well (and 2 workers)!

Connect the spices. Bombard and kill all units in our territory.

Do we need embassies before planting spies? I build an embassy in Zimbabwe anyway: 2 vet infantry and 2 reg infantry, building another due in 5 turns. 14 spt, 44 fpt, 103 gpt. Size 15, grow in 3. Has spices, furs, and silks, and 2 Rubber, 1 Oil, Coal, Saltpeter, Iron, and Horse. 2 Entertainers.

1480 (8) – Taif bank->infantry. Medina hospital->stock exchange. Damascus infantry->infantry. Yamama market->barracks. Kufah hospital->bank (we can now build Battlefield Med.). Muscat market->artillery. We Love the Caliph Day celebrated throughout our nation.

Upgrade last 3 cannons for 360 gold.

Update on Byzantine military: 4 workers, 28 inf, 3 galleons, 2 ironclads, and 2 guerillas. We’re going to need a navy if we don’t want those ironclads destroying our coasts—or hope our artillery can reach them and make them retreat.

Move army and lots of cav within range of Trebizond. Move a few artillery, but they’re still out of range, so probably will attack next turn.

IBT – An artillery bombards us from Trebizond, but fails. That’s one more we’ll have after we capture the city. A galleon comes out of Sardica.

1485 (9) – Shihr settler->settler. Damascus inf->battlefield medicine (6 turns). Baghdad artillery->stock exchange. Suhar factory->cav. Balkh aque->courthouse. Mosul harbor->court. Bayt Ras aque->market. Russia now has Combustion.

Attack on Trebizond: Army attacks and is brought to 3/13. Elite attacks and retreats, doing 2 damage. But that’s the last defender! Another Elite attacks, wins losing 2 damage, and we capture Trebizond, as well as 9 gold, and 3 workers (where’d the artillery go?). I must’ve killed an ironclad too, since Theo only has one left.

We are now strong vs. the Byzantines. Bombard land around Constantinople, hoping to 1) slow down enemy movement into our territory, and 2) maybe cause the city to starve, lowering its defensive bonuses.

IBT – Infantry attacks one of our cavs, and kills itself, doing just 2 damage. Byzantine galleon moves farther up coast. Pollution strikes Medina.

1490 (10) – Mecca Heroic Epic->stock exchange. Khurasan artillery->bank. Aden factory->cav. I-ran aque->ironclad. Fez market->library. Merw bank->police station.

Settle New Baghdad ->barracks.

For next player:

I moved most of our artillery within range of Constantinople, but our army only has 3/13 health. You can either send him to a city with a barracks and wait for him to heal up, or attack Constantinople without him (I suggest the former). While waiting for the army to heal, bombard the squares around the city. New Damascus will grow in one turn, and hopefully (although doubtfully) we’ll be able to rush the galleon. Send him up to block off Constantinople’s trade route by sea.
If you want, you can join workers into New Damascus until a rush is possible, but I’m not sure if that’s allowed.
I’m not sure what is up with that galleon on the east coast of Ostland. Next turn it will probably be within bombardment range.
We have 73 units and are allowed 210--I think that speaks for itself. All current builds you can change. Battlefield Medicine is due in 5, and Combustion in 4.
We are also sorta low on money. Maybe after Combustion comes in, set it at 0% or 10% for a few turns? Maybe stop research all together after Combustion?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Arabia_1490.JPG

weird storyteller talk wierd storyteller talk is fine. I like comic books. :)

Probably wouldn't have traded the steel for ironclads and fascism since I doubt we'll ever use either. War is progressing nicely, might want to make sure there's a combat settler or two ready to go.

I usually don't build hospitals and thus never have Battlefield Medicine (abbreviating seems to crass even for me). Will be interesting to see how much it helps the offensives later.

Re the workers. Ok to join native workers to cities, slaves is a :nono: for a variety of reasons including increasing the flip risk.

Damascus, Medina, or Mecca should be building the MA and then pump out a few armies. Pentagon wouldn't hurt for when we want to go multi continent (should have transports by then)

Don't really need to run so hard on research at this point. We can steal whatever we want. Later, we'll need to self research the SS techs (as the venerable one pointed out).

Build more military!

Probably wouldn't have traded the steel for ironclads and fascism since I doubt we'll ever use either. War is progressing nicely, might want to make sure there's a combat settler or two ready to go.

Normally, I wouldn't have, but I figured Russia would have researched it soon enough anyway (and since they got Combustion just a few turns later, they most likely would have). Plus, we got a LOT of money from Catherine. There's one settler due in 2 turns, but I suppose we could start a couple early so we have them as soon as a city is razed.

I usually don't build hospitals and thus never have Battlefield Medicine (abbreviating seems to crass even for me). Will be interesting to see how much it helps the offensives later.

I've usually won by the mid to late Industrial Age, so I haven't used it much either, but I've always liked it when I do get to use it. We can always change it to Military Academy, though.

Re the workers. Ok to join native workers to cities, slaves is a :nono: for a variety of reasons including increasing the flip risk.

Don't worry, I made sure they were all native workers. I'm not going to give up free workers over ones costing us gold.

Damascus, Medina, or Mecca should be building the MA and then pump out a few armies. Pentagon wouldn't hurt for when we want to go multi continent (should have transports by then)

Like I said, if we want, Battefield Medicine can always be switched to the MA. Of course, it wouldn't take long to build in any of those three (Damascus makes over 90spt, and Mecca something like 64spt).

Don't really need to run so hard on research at this point. We can steal whatever we want. Later, we'll need to self research the SS techs (as the venerable one pointed out).

Build more military!

Agreed. Like I said at the end of my log, after Combustion comes in, we may just want to shut all research down completely.

If the budget can stand it keep the researchers busy at least untiil we get to Motorized Transport. Then we can shut off research and start accumulating cash for the later IA and early Modern stuff we need

Iroquoisplisken - just played a nice
soul warrior - gots it. will try to do us some good
bede - will save our hide, yet again
jb1964/Admiral kutzov - not so idiotic, against all attempts
tubby rower - MIA till escapes ChiTown
Zakharov - just good to have around :D

will play tommorow afternoon (+2gmt)

Nice turns IroP.

Do we need embassies before planting spies?
Yes.

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To all, definitely do not join slaves to our cities.

From the variant rules:

No foreign workers merged into existing cities.
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My only input here is that we need more troops.

well, to cut a very long story abit shorter...
i spent almost 3 hours on my set, doing miserably BTW,
RNG gods really hate me. i think.
i end my turns, type some final notes in my log,
and the bleepppppp!!!! pc goes crashing into blue screenie o' death on me.
needless to say, no save or log survived this ordeal,
so i will have to play tommorow night (possible) or friday noon (more likely)