I checked Ybbor's sticky and didn't see anything like this mentioned.

We've all had to deal with our rep being thrashed at one point or another. Sometimes it's well deserved, because some of us are real snakes in this game :mischief:. But sometimes it is accidental or unexpected. That is why I propose that a player's diplomatic reputation with the AI be adjusted accordingly after a revolution (gpt deals re-enabled, attitude towards the player possibly improved slightly). After all, one can hardly blame the current administration for a previous regime's misdeeds and transgressions.

I admit that there is a lot of room to abuse this feature, so there would have to be something to limit or balance it. I can't think of any such check right now, but that's what you guys are for....

I think that you are on to something here. Though I think that the NEW reputation should be based on how other nations view the new government, as well as how violent the actual transition is.
That said, though, perhaps religious upheavals and political revolutions should cause you to lose some of your nations accumulated culture (think Iconoclasm). Of course, the more violent the upheaval, the worse the loss-which would be all the more reason to change government at the behest of your people, rather than merely clinging to the old government beyond all hope!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Of course something like this should be implemented in the next civgame, civs usually don't hold grudges for several millennia....unless it's somekind of religous grudge...
Maybe the reset of the reputation should lose some percentage of it's effectiveness each revolution. You cheat a lot of civs repeatedly - they begin to see your deeds as a part of your culture rather than a former bad political government.

Propaganda, cultural and religious influence, deeds that are benefical or hurtful for your civ, puppetregiming, competitiveness etc should also affect the reputation.

Nice idea, but rather easy to exploit, is it not?
We don't forget that sneak attack by civ X early in the game either, do we. ;)

Well, one way to avoid exploits, and my take on this idea, would be that your reputation would lessen a little bit, not go *poof* overnight... your enemies would likely call a ceasefire unless you REALLY pissed them off, and your allies would be... concerned (deals that were once easy, eg say... 1 tech for 500 gold, would now be 1 tech for 750 gold, something like that, until you repaired the relationship).

Of course something like this should be implemented in the next civgame, civs usually don't hold grudges for several centuaries....unless it's somekind of religous grudge...
...
Well that's exactly true. England and France didn't like each other until they allied for WWI. It was some weird Hundred years war or something to make them angry.

Also, China's grudge against Japan goes from ancient times when China executed Japan's first ever emissary. Apparently, it was a henous insult to claim the same status as the emperor of China in those days.

Well, there is no way to simulate ALL of history-with all of its little quirks-but the 'reset system' would help from a broad historical and gameplay perspective. As for exploitation, there are a few ways around it-namely:

1) My idea that, when a nation changes governments, some of its accumulated culture is also lost. This will discourage players from trying to change governments just to improve their reputations. Also, changing governments would also be a possible spark of civil war, making its use as an exploit even more risky!!

2) OwieB's idea of the reputation not RESETING, but coming down over a turn or two after government change-as well as the fact that this could harm your existing reputation with your allies.

3) Giving the people of your nation (and those of the AI) more control over these factors. e.g. you, the player, might know that the French are a bunch of 'snakes in the grass', but if the French government has changed from Despotism to Democracy, your people might be prepared to trust them. This could make turning down diplomatic overtures from them difficult-if your nation is democratic enough ;)!

4) Related to (3), in many cases it will be YOUR people that force a change in government-not you-thus making government changes even LESS of an exploit than it currently is!!! Also, if you change government too often against the will of your people, they could become VERY unhappy with you and go into a general rebellion!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Your relationships should change after a revolution, but they shouldn't just reset to 0. The most deciding factor in how nations would now view you would be the kind of government you switched to. If you switched from fascism to democracy or republic, for example, democracies and republics who once hated you or regarded you as a backstabber would pretty much forget their past problems with you. Look at the USA-Iraq example. In the 90's, the USA were very hostile towards the Iraqi government, and vice versa. None of them trusted each other. But, now that Iraq is transitioning to a democracy, the US government and the new Iraqi government are very friendly. Alternatively, if you switched to a fascist government, your former Republic/Democracy allies would be less willing to deal with you, and might cancel their trade, mutual protection and right of passage agreements.

Look at the USA-Iraq example. In the 90's, the USA were very hostile towards the Iraqi government, and vice versa. None of them trusted each other. But, now that Iraq is transitioning to a democracy, the US government and the new Iraqi government are very friendly.
They are US-puppets now.

Different grudges should be uneaqually hard to wash away. A religious grudge shouldn't change much in a change from despotism to monarchy, while a change to democracy could first reset and then blur out most grudges over time, unless the other part is totally against democracy.

The small EU-US grudge that is now will probably fade away with Bush leaving his post. So when the poke in the eye disappears between democracies, the grudge between them should fade away pretty quickly, since there's a continuous government change in them.

/I edited my post above also..

Albeit it needs to be worked on so that it does not become an exploit, I think your idea is very good.

The funny thing is that I am often behaving that way with civs that change government or when I switch government. Obviously there is no reason for that, just a human intuition that actualy does not work in Civ3 bt could hopefully work in Civ 4.

Reset reputation after government change is a somewhat realistic, but runs the risk of being very easy to exploit by human players.

But how about "Demanding/Paying reparations"? Example: If you sell an resource for money, and suddenly the resource runs out. You would get a reduced rep, but if you contact the offended Civ and offer to pay reparations (negotiated as a norman deal based on the damage you have done them) the relationship would be repaired?

The same method could be applied to all kind of broken deal, including peace treaties.

It could also be implemented for ai-ai relations.

It should be combined with a "Rep and attitude menu" where you can see all civs rep and attitude to each other.