Thanks to Grey Fox for the idea:
Trade and luxury focus, no religious happiness wonders. Control the masses with luxuries. Goal is to have as many luxuries for your cities as you possibly can. Prohibited: temples, cathedrals, Oracle, ToA, Bachs, Sistine. Allowed: GL, libraries, universities, arenas, HG, Cure for Cancer.

Idiot Variant:
The more luxuries the idiot masses have, the less they are motivated. :smoke: Therefore, the number of offensive wars is dependent upon the number of native luxuries. If our civ has no native lux, we may fight 8 offensive wars per age. As soon as a new lux is hooked up, any war that was being fought with the previous owner must end if at all possible. If we have four native lux, we may only fight 4 offensive wars. Should we have all 8 lux going into an age, we are not allowed to declare. Imported lux are not counted in this tally. Research is encouraged to find new ways to amuse the peeps. You are never, ever permitted to voluntarily disconnect a luxury (thanks, gram)

Eclectic Variant:
This game is open to 4 other players. Civ, landmass, climate, difficulty to be chosen by the participants, see below. Let me know which slot you want in your sign up. VC to be decide upon by the team.

Roster:
d-man (DG difficulty)
viper (Archipelago, 60% water )
bede (wet, temp, old)
t-rat (ottomans)
AK (small world, random opponents)

Thanks to LKendter for the rules:
The following tactics are PROHIBITED :

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war.

Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship in the same square not using any movement, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.

Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another landmass.

Worker baiting (worker chaff) - You can't spread around and sacrifice workers to an oncoming attack. This is often done to avoid losing real units or cities. This takes advantage of the AI failure to prioritize targets.

Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.

2) Worker blockades are prohibited. This prevents things such as fortifying workers along the coast to stop invasions, blocking troops from going through your territory with workers, etc. Workers activity doing something along the coast is fine. The workers must be actively doing something.

3) You may not declare war on a civ if you are currently shipping cash and / or goods to the civ.

4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.

5) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.

1 to 3 were generated with random seed "fatman" and then quick starts

uno
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ak71.jpg
dos
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ak72.jpg
tres
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ak73.jpg
quatro was generated with seed "littleboy"
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ak5.jpg

I forgot to change the barb setting so it's roaming, not random

Put me in Admiral.
It will be fun to watch you not just as a lurker in other threads. :)

Welcome aboard D-man. Which choice do you want to make?

Emperor would be an easy game, so i suggest demigod.

I am 100% open minded on everything else.
Throw the dice.

not a sign up, but i like the idea. i suggest you make a rule to ensure no sandbagging (ie, all lux's within your borders must be connected as soon as possible). that way, you can't just disconnect a lux at your leisure. your people are addicted, no? :)

I like this idea :cool: I'll sign up.

I think I'll choose landmass setting. Archipelago, 60% water (this one's kind of unpredictable, sometimes you get a continent and a bunch of islands, sometimes a tiny pangaea with islands, sometimes really huge islands, chokepoints everywhere no matter what. It would be kind of a double-edged sword, you may be safe on an island but no luxuries, or on a pangaea with evil neighbors.) But if anyone objects I'm fine with 70% continents.

AK games are fun games, would join and suggest a scientific CIV - Ottoman have not been played recently and their UU is great

Nice to see you, viper. I was lurking your ideas thread and had a feeling you'd be here. ;)

@ t-rat: welcome. However, none of this I would suggest stuff, the choice of civ is yours alone. You may wait and discuss it with the team, but you make the specific, final, choice :crazyeye:

The Abbot recommends wet, temperate and old.

Roster now full. Rolling with Ottos, wet, temp, old. (temp, old - sounds like my personality) barbs random ok? Starts up later tonight or tomorrow.

@ t-rat - if you want to change your mind on the civs, please advise, is no problem

I havent played Ottoman yet, but fought them in so many games, so i won't chnage my mind, you roll some nice starts and we get this going

I like 1 & 4. I would move the worker in 1 W, verify there's coast to the SW and then move the settler S. In 4, I'd move the worker W or N and see what develops. Sorry, no mini-maps :devil: Or should I keep rolling until I get 6 cows and a river? :lol: DocT would probably comment that they're all too easy, even 2. ;) If the team wants more rolls, no problemo.

#4, no doubt. There is lux in the fog, 3 BG, and (what #1 doesn't have), a food bonus.

Ottomans are a nice civ, I played as them in an SG once (Jurimax1) and they are very powerful, especially when they get Sipahis.

vote for uno, hey do Ottomans speak spanish?

@ viper - re #4, r u sure that's a lux and not tobacco? ;)

@ T-rat - if they no hablo espanol, we'll learn'em how (to put it in Pennsyltucky vernacular :lol: )

Definately #4 if I were playing. It *is* dyes, I can tell, and it has the smilie face icon and dyes do give 1 commerce. While it doesn't have fresh water, I would be suprised if there wasn't a river nearby with the setting wet. In #3, the thing in the fog is furs, fyi. Good luck with your game!

Thanks GA, your fog gazing is much better than mine.

ok, if that's the case, vote for #4 as well. who is starting this off? d-man? ok

just a question since I really almost freaked out yesterday trying to download and later upload things, I had a hard time opening the webpages, but not other pages? what was that? :mad:

just a question since I really almost freaked out yesterday trying to download and later upload things, I had a hard time opening the webpages, but not other pages? what was that?


Just make sure you've got decent anti-virus and spyware. About 6 months ago I had to reload windows. I think that "This ad displays only once every 24 hours" thingy tries to do evil operations to your comp. Then again, I'm a paranoid idiot.

I'll hold for a little more commentary. D-man starts us off.

Here's start 4 in case d-man wants to start. If there's further discussion and we want a different, I can post those too.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ak5.SAV

D-man -> up
viper -> on deck
bede -> searchig for shells
t-rat -> having evil, paranoid thoughts about computers :)
AK -> preparing for night, night (involves cackling gleefully, cow tipping, screaming and other things you really don't want to know about) ;)

I can play tomorrow night.
Any suggestions for the startup sequence???

send worker SW to see the situation? or send him east, then decide to settle on the spot or move to coast. do we want to settle at the coast?

AK, it's not a virus, I have all the scans, live updated etc. and the other webpages loaded normal.

and one more thing since you tend to mix all this up, this is NOT AK5, but AK7 :lol:

and one more thing since you tend to mix all this up, this is NOT AK5, but AK7

don't ask, it should be the correct save. It got saved as AK5 cause it was the 5th save I did tonight. I wondered if anyone would catch it when I posted.

@ d-man: need suggestions on how to get my wife out of the house for the night like you did with yours. Appears you've got all kinds of quality time to spend on CIV. :lol: :goodjob: Mine is giving me the evil eye. :sad:

Mine is giving me the evil eye :lol: :lol: :lol: everywhere same issues. well, tell her better to play C3C then gamble, go out drinking etc etc. or send her to go shopping. but in the end the :mad: look can't be avoided

AK -> preparing for night, night (involves cackling gleefully, cow tipping, screaming and other things you really don't want to know about) ;)


@ d-man: need suggestions on how to get my wife out of the house for the night like you did with yours. Appears you've got all kinds of quality time to spend on CIV. :lol: :goodjob: Mine is giving me the evil eye. :sad:

Admiral Sir, there appears to be a logical inconsistency here, or have been single too long?

very simple, wife gives me evil eye, i continue to play civ, she leaves room and I turn to the demon rum :lol: In addition idiots are not logical. The cow tipping and cackling was probably some type of flashback episode...

I hear ya Admiral..
I've been up in 5 SG.
I spent so much time with civ lately, i am afraid to look at my wife...
I think she is on the edge of breaking this laptop in thousands little pieces.

So.... i moved worker 1 tile SW. and then i moved settler on tobacco and here is the pic...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/AK7Startup.JPG

I don't fancy coastal capitals but it is better than being just 1 tile off coast.
I like tile SW from where the worker stands now.
If we place capital there we have 2BGs., Lux and food bonus after expansion.

Suggestions?

I'm back for more comments... :)

I would move the settler SW, onto the plain grassland. You don't waste any sea tiles where you can't build a harbor if you are 1 tile away, you get [at least] 3 BGs, 1 wheat, and 1 dye (luxury, commerce, and shields). If you get to size four, and work the roaded dyes, roaded + mined tobacco, roaded + mined BG, and roaded + mined wheat, you can get 8 commerce, 7 shields, and a steady growth of 2 food/turn for the other BGs and grasslabd. That's pretty good for a size 4 city. That would be a granary in 9 turns (at the end you could do some micromanaging, because 63 divided by 7 leaves a remainder of 3 shields). This doesn't seem too big of a challenge if you are industrious as well. You can save the BG in the north - northwest of the current settler place for future cities. You capital will have nice growth along with nice production! :goodjob:

On the plains to the NW of the dyes is good (i.e. right where d-man & GA said)

Agree with what everyone else is saying.

Actually there was a disagreement between GA and myself.
I proposed NW from dyes and he proposed NE from dyes....
At least that is how i understood this...

ANyways... I will play and post late tonight.

Like GA's choice. Looks like we are on a neck of land here. Placed there we would be able to defend nicely against any traipsing interlopers.

Oops, I mixed the two up. I like GA's.

settle SW on grassland

Yes, I proposed the site NE from dyes inland, and dmanakho proposed a site NW which would be on the coast.

....and so I agreed with Ginger Ale and the rest of the gang and here is my turn log.
First look at the map. Awfull isn't it. :rolleyes:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/AK73000BC1.JPG


...and the actual turn log:

T0. 4000BC Worker goes SW, not sure what to do and decide to explore a little bit more. settler goes SE. Posting the save to the thread and after consulting with the team and lurkers decide to settle one tile NE from dyes.
T1. 3950BC Settlers moves SW and it looks like we will pop goodie hut when settling a capital. Worker starts mining BG.=
T2. 3900BC Istanbul is founded it will be powerful city with 4BGs, Dyes and tobacco available in smoking section. Research set for potter at 90% in 19 turns. It's archipelago and we don't know if we can trade it anytime soon. SO selfresearch to be on safe side. Istanbul was ordered to build a warrior.

T3. 3850BC. Nothing.

T4. 3800BC. Nothing.

T5. 3750BC. Worker mine->road
T6. 3700BC nothing
T7. 3650BC istanbul warrior->warrior. Sending warrior N to figure if there is an access to fresh water anywhere nearby. Worker moves on Wheat
T8. 3600BC Worker roads wheat. Warrior NE and we discover watter surrounds us in Northern direction.
T9. 3550BC. Nope, i was wrong. Warrior just found a narrow land neck north from us. We shall explore possibilities.
T10. 3500BC. Worker on wheat road->mine.
T11. 3450BC. Istanblul warrior->warrior. Sending warrior south to check what's there.
T12. 3400BC. No need to explore souther portion of our land. Istanbul expands and we can see nasty barb nest with 2 barbs parked inside. Istanbul is pop 2 now. So lux slider up 20%. Sci. slider down to 70%. Pottery in 6. Such a crappy piece of land we have.
T13. 3350BC. There we go.. warrior attacks barbarian and dies. There goes our luck.
T14. 3300BC Istanbul warrior->Settler. Worker finished mining wheat and moved to the next BG. Lux slider down 0%
T15. 3250BC. worker mining.
T16. 3200BC. Warrior sees blue border across the water.. America, Spain or Sumeria.
F10 shows that it's got to be Spain. Contact not possible though. Science slider down
T17. 3150BC nothing
T18. 3100BC. Pottery comes switch to alphabet on min in 50.
T19. 3050BC. Istanbul grows to pop3. Worker finished mine just in time for new citizen. Settler is ready in 2. Lux slider goes up a notch. Our scout warrior was movin along narrow serpentine of land and it ended... That's it... dead end and 25 turns of exploring was wasted... Such a bad map.
Should we play OCC here?
T20. 3000BC. Nothing. Settler is to be completed in 1 turn.


Well, brothers Idiots..... any comments???? :)

IIRC, I was making comments about DocT's best start ever in one of the threads. The PRNG heard me and decided to punish me.

@ D-man - who woulda thunk this could have happened from the starts I posted? :rotfl: :goodjob: with what you got.

All is not hopeless - there's a choke to the NE...

D-man -> the pooch just did him (us)
viper -> up to send the scout NE
bede -> pointing out my logical inconsistencies
t-rat -> having evil, paranoid thoughts about computers and idiot games
AK -> still :rotfl:. I swear I didn't look beyond what I posted.

:lol: what a start, well can we explore east? maybe found next city next to the sea, so we can send out curraghs

:rotfl:

Fell out of my chair when I saw the picture.

There is a peninsula to the NE.

Lessee if I got this straight....we have a mounted UU on a skinny island full of marsh.... I guess that's what we deserve for funnin' at the PRNG gods. (BTW, just exactly what is a pseudo random number generator, something like a monk with a vasectomy?

Got it.

That sure is funny. Especially that in the only other SG I've played in as the Ottomans, exactly the same thing happened (great start initially but the land surrounded was bad.) Let's just hope that that peninsula will help us.

3
Edrine founded.
6
Contact Spain (so we AREN'T alone on our island...) Sell them Masonry for Warrior Code (we'll want archers) and 9 gold. Declare war becase of the variant.

Hope I didn't screw anything up (especially if I misunderstood the variant.)

actually I understood the variant differently. it's not we must make war as many times.
we are only allowed to have war not more than x times, since we have 1 klux so far, we can have 7 times during AA. correct?

I also understood it the way TheRat did.
But I am sure Admiral will clear situation

Yup, we are addicted, not defiant.

Gots it.

But we don't have that lux hooked up, so it doesn't count AFAIK. So we can sign peace with Spain as soon as we hook up that lux (but barbs will make it tougher.)

The lux was not hooked up. We have zero lux. We may declare 8 times in AA. When we hook it up, that drops to 7. We don't have to fight wars. Like Bede said, we're addicted to lux, not defiant. The tally sheet now shows one offensive war in the AA age. Seven remain. When a lux gets hooked up that drops to six available (not required). If Spain has a lux that we appropriate, we must end the war at the end of that turn. You may make peace at any time. You mustmake peace when you've stolen the lux. We are permitted to import if an Opium war doesn't make sense. Hope this clears things up.

Okay, I understand now. Sorry I misunderstood when I played my turnset.

No problem, I never thought we'd need 8 wars in the AA anyway. ;)

Played twenty, just lost track of time it went so fast.

First thing to do is deal with four Spanish warriors incoming. Switch Istanbul build to warrior and hunker down waiting for Spaniards to commit themselves in the open.

Once they enter the grasslands at Erdrine, kill 'em all, no losses :bounce:.

Isabella will talk so I trade her Pottery for a Peace Treaty and Alphabet (what a wuss). Istanbul starts another settler to claim the neck and so does Erdrine to move on into the rest of the world east.

Send a warrior to scout the Spanish lands north and another south.

Found Bursa on the neck. Building the town pops the barbs out of their village, Two die to our warriors and the third heads north and sacks Erdrine, setting back the barracks build.

The settler from Erdrine is boosted along by a forest chop and then goes to build Iznik in the face of the Spaniards at Toledo, claiming some wine. Warriors from the Spanish war fill up the garrison (3 should be plenty to protect the town culturally but we will probably lose the wine to a border expansion at Toledo once the temple is finished. Watch four more Spanish warriors head south on a barb hunt.

Might as well start preparing for a reprise of the Spanish War.

Research is max to Writing, Spain has The Wheel, Iron Working and Mysticism.

What we know now:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/AK7_1750BC.jpg

therat is up. RL is intruding so I won't be able to play before Friday. If d-man can get a set up before then, go ahead.

got it
will try and send out curraghs

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Ak7_1500BC.SAV)

Pre-turn
we have 1 worker, 1 contact, decide to change some builds

1. nada

2. forrest chop reveals BG :)

IT Edrine curragh -> rax

3. curragh goes west and sees red border

IT Bursa builds another curragh, send it south to help us explore the land we could settle

4. meet the Mayans, they are up same techs as Spain
spot a pink border in the south

5. contact Inca, they don't know alphabet
trade alphabet +5g for wheel, no horses in sight

6. Maya knows writing now, the rest don't. get it for 60g
trade writing to Spain for 78g, HBR and IW
trade HBR with Maya for 150g and mysticism
set research to philo at max (18 turns)

7. 8. nth

IT Istanbul granary -> settler, timed the granary for growth a trun later

9.

10. Spain knows maths. Inca is still short of writing. hooked up the first lux
philo at the moment in 12, do not know whether it will pay off. there is a lot of room to expand south and southeast

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ak71500.jpg

:thumbsup: Nice horse trading.

D-man - on deck
viper
bede
t-rat -> just played
AK -> up

Do we want to wait till friday or i can play tonight or tomorrow.

Would be nice to buy math before we get phylo..
That way we can claim expensive Currency or Construction as free tech.

Do we want to wait till friday or i can play tonight or tomorrow keep this SG going, play your turns

I will swap with Admiral then...

D-man - up (swapped)
viper
bede
t-rat -> just played
AK -> on deck

Pre-turn:
I decided to switch Iznik to barracks... Map stat shows flip probability 0% and that city actually generates some shields

IBT: Spain demands 32 gold and i bow... Barb. galley attacks our curragh and we sunk it. Score 1:0

T1. 1470BC Send wondering reg. warrior. It helps to bring lux slider to 0 science to 100, phylo in 10 turns

T2 1450BC. Scouting and worker action. Elite warrior attacks barbarian and dies. Otommans-Barbarians 1:1

T3. 1425BC. Istanbul settler->barracks. Settler is sent east. Edrine barracks->warrior. Bursa worker->barracks.

T4. 1400BC. MM around Istanbul and Edrine... Nothing changed on diplomacy frontlines.

T5. 1375BC Scouting and worker actions.

T6. 1350BC. Same as above

T7. 1325BC. Same as above.

T8. 1300BC. Finally i am having some action. Barbarian horse shows up from marsh peninsula and reg warrior kills it. Score 2:1

T9. 1275BC. Wines connected... More action. Barbarian horse against our warrior and score against barbarians is 3:1
Isabel will gives take nothing for Math.

T10. 1250BC Mayans discovered Map Making. Philosophy is due next turn. Uskudar is founded near second source of Dyes.
Switch it to worker for now. Move worker to chop or road forest south from Iznik. COvered it with a warrior...
Source of iron is also spotted deep east from us.
Barbarians are active there. East scouting curragh spotted something that looks like Russian borders. Should have contact next turn

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak7-1250BC.JPG

Ok.

got it as of tomorrow

Having a second thought here.
Iznik and Edrine should probably be switched to settlers.

Recon: Change Iznik & Erdine to settler. Find out we can't trade for math or MM.

IT: Phil done. Trade Phil + 10gpt to 'Bella for Math. Take currency as our freebie. Trade Phil to Maya for 278g.

1225: Meet Cathy. Put on sunglasses, cover mirrors. Cathy has Poly.

Misc. whack a barb as the PRNG whacks the human.

1175: Meet Otto. Sell Cathy Currency for 209g + Poly. Sell Otto Phil for 73g. Sell Smoke Poly for MM + 50g. Sell Bella Poly for 151g + 4gpt.

1150 IT: Chitzen Itza finishes Oracle. Now Smoke thinks he's psychic.

1125: Ivory sighted near Smolensk.

1000: Sell currency to Bella for 99g + 3gpt.

Smoke may very well be psychic. An idiot research savant has appeared somewhere and the AI (different ones) are up COL, Monarchy and construction. We're racing for the iron.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak07_1000BC.jpg

Did I give up too much, too soon on the trades?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_AK_1000_BC.SAV

viper - up
bede - on deck
therat - in the hole
AK- just played
d-man - did a swap with AK, but soon back to regular spot

Got it. I'll wait for a few more comments before playing.

Open embassies so we can start to figger out the relationships and see what we can do about brokerage.

@AdmK, looks like you got mos' all the money in the world, so , no, you didn't give up anything :goodjob:

viper, are you going to play?

:wallbash: Almost forgot. Yes, I will (today.)

Preturn- Embassy in Madrid. They're making 6 spt, pop 6, 12 fpt, 80% science and no lux, making 10 gpt total. Only has a palace. Spain has horses and Madrid is guarded by 3 spearmen. Lots of barbs.
1
IBT- Lots of fighting here. Lose a settler to the barbs.
3
Get Construction and 6 gold from Spain for Map Making.
4
IBT- Inca, Germans, and Russia start Mausoleum, Maya begin TGW. Moscow built ToA.
5
IBT- Inca finish Mausoleum. Spain finishes TGW, Spain and Maya start TGL.
6
Aydin and Izmit founded.
IBT- Barbs kill a Curragh that was exploring.
9
IBT- Germans start AoW. People are in the Middle Ages.

To the next player: Not much, just keep the blockade I made to keep Spain away, claim the iron, and please by CoL, it's really cheap now and will get us to the Middle Ages.

Oh, and I think I did something wrong according to the dotmap...

Got it. And let's see if I can remember this variant.

Buy CoL from Maya for 241g and pull Monotheism for free.

Use it to get Monarchy +83g+13gpt from Otto. It then takes Monotheism and 623g+16gpt to get Feudalism from Catherine. Open embassies with everybody so I can see who knows who. Spain knows only Inca, Maya knows Russia and Germany, Russia is at war with Germany,

Recoup 298g from Maya for Monarchy and 104g from Spain for Code of Laws. Then sell Inca Code of Laws for 19g as it keeps him broke and unable to buy anything from the Snow Queen, Izzy...


Germans finish Hanging Gardens and one of the barbarian horde appears from the north.

Send a couple of archers to the north to deal with the barb camp up there.

In 710 found Antalya on the coast SE of Izmit and in 610 found Konya on the far east coast to claim the iron.

Only other event of note happens in 590BC when the Maya declare war because I won't give him Feudalism. Ho hum.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_550BC.jpg

got it, what should our strategy be like? start a second spanish war? claim those citites in the south and push a little north? or try and expand further?
we do need horses sooner or later for our UU

any input before I play later on?

We will have iron for swordsmen in about 5 turns or so. The area north of Konya looks to be more jungle and marsh than anything.

I would think it's getting close to time for Izzy to face our swords.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_350_BC.SAV)

Pre-turn
ok, so war it is, first we need some swords
we are in the MA, but amazingly nobody knows literature :cool:

1.
nth much

IT Russia finishes SoZ

2.

3.

IT iron is online now, we will build MI, not swords

4.
upgrading works (90g each)

Germans demand 33g, since we are in the next age, prefer not to have another war

5.

6.
declare on Spain and move in, elite archer kills archer
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak7430.jpg

extremely lucky, since we can form army in Iznik and load immediately to attack Toledo :D
wack a spear there

Russia and Germany seem to be fighting,

IT our hero archer gets attacked but retreats the horse
and in a smoke move Spanish move in a settler pair :smoke:

7. 420AD
the goal is to get at least to Murcia, where the horses are
attack Toledo with 2 MI and raze town, netting 3 slaves
try our luck, attack 1hp horse with elite warrior, but lose :(
army then defeats horse and spear that covered settler, defeat warrior, but archer is exposed

IT our archer defeats archer attack and promotes and Spain sends another settler pair :smoke: :smoke:

8.
found Sinop at former Toledo (our culture stinks and we do not need flips)
advance towards Murcia, and spot another pair :lol:

IT Maya finish Great lighthouse
2 warriors advance towards Antalya

9.
army defeats 2 spears and we raze Murcia
defeat settler pair and up north spot one more, defeat spear and retreat horse cover, 2 more slaves
move a warrior on mountain next to warriors near Antalya

IT tactic works as attacking elite warrior is defeated and we spot yet another pair
Spanish must have horded settlers for the choke to open, great outcome in this case
Maya and Germany sign against Russia

10. 450AD
defeat a barb horse and spot barb camp. defeat 2nd warrior in the south.
settler moves onto horses and can found city next turn. army should be healed and we can decide which direction we take next
there are 4 fortified slaves, that I did not move until route is safe
we should raze all northern cities, means we need to produce more settler.
defeat settler pair and move in archers for cover.
In the south we could upgrade a warrior, if we want for defense. but a pike will be ready next turn
I would only attack the southern towns once they grow to size 2, so we could keep them

we could also make peace with Maya and sell them monotheism for all their gold
Germans and Russia know at least engineering (maybe Invention?), Russia also knows republic

the situation
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak7350.jpg

got it, tomorrow

Slow going in the Spanish War. Great Wall is slowing things down. Finally raze Barcelona in 210 after a few rounds of attack and heal with the army. Keep having to put down incursions by archers from the south.

Built 2 cities. One settler ready to move into spanish lands. one more by our iron. Inca just planted a town where it was going. Next player can redirect it.

Cathy learned Lit. Made peace with Smoke. Got Rep. for Mono. +11gpt as part of the deal

Traded Rep. +11gpt + 17g to Cathy for Eng. Changed research to Inv.

Murad I appears in 130. Suddenly, I realize I'm in turn 11, so I stop. Lots of moves left.

viper - on deck
bede - feeling good about the safety of the holy rant (check the map)
therat - in the hole
AK- just played
d-man - up

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_AK_130_BC.SAV

I have it but won't play until tomorrow.

Pre-turn 130BC. Use leader to create Army.

T1. 110BC. Fill army with 2 MDIs, sent to the front... various worker activities.
Auto-Razed Valencia. Sent settler to re-settle the spot. Skirmishes with Spain archers.

T2. 90BC. send 3 archers, pike and catapult to capture southern Spanish cities. Put science to 0 (we run at negative budget on 10%, need those markets badly), hire lone scientist instead.

T3. 70BC. Salonika founded. Saragosa captured.

T4. 50BC. Mugla founded. Valencia captured.

T5. 30BC... just one MDI short of capturing Madrid. It is almost time to revolt.
Barb. Warrior pillages oasis.

T6. 10BC. Incas have literature. I give them Mono and they give us literature silks and 3 shiny gold in return.
Why wouldn't I revolt until now, well I didn’t want to stop military production until I knew for sure Spain is gone... It is time to revolt into republic. Go to F1 and revolt... Wow... we have 7 turns in anarchy. Pretty bad luck.


T7. 10AD. Getting troops together against Spaniards.

IBT. Germans completed Sun-Tzu. it triggered wonder cascading and Russians built Leo.

T8. 30AD Salamanca is captured. Spain is down to 3 cities.

T9. 50AD. Bad lack... Salamanca has flipped back to Spanish. I have MDI nearby to get it back

T10. 70AD. Aydun riots. I have troops ready. Next turn we should be able to recapture Salamanca and capture 2 remaining northern Spanish cities. Although there is only one MDI near Salamanca I doubt Spain has more than one defender inside. So I would take chances to try to recapture it with single MDI.
Then we would probably need to leave one army up north to deal with flipping and to send another south ASAP to capture Pampalona and Spain is history. Just do it fast and don’t keep MPs inside cities until Spain is gone.

Don't make peace with Spain. We won't be able to keep cities, they will flip back.
Workers are not in a good order. With the anarchy penalty i simply used them in large stacks.
I was also irrigating tiles from northern Spain land back to our home... We to provide water back to Istanbul.

i am at work so no pic avail. right now, but i will post one during the lunch hour.

good progress, d-man you mean you play at work :confused: :lol:
what about a save though

good progress, d-man you mean you play at work :confused: :lol:
what about a save though

Save? What save? Oh, the save :lol: ...

Nah, not playing at work, I played very late yesterday night and have C3C CD inside the laptop so as soon as i have some break time i will upload the save and the screenie.

Also, we ought to start building some infrastucture (mostly markets) after the war is over.
and horses as military units...
MDIs were good against spain, but will not do as any good for much longer.

Got it when there's a save.

Pics
North
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak7-70ad-north.jpg

South and West
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak7-70ad-south.jpg

Save:

:bump: there's a save

:goodjob: d-man

Settle the island north of the Spanish?

Oops... got it.

Played only 9 so it's back on the right date.

1
Capture Salamanca, Seville, and Santiago.
IBT- Smoke Jaguar demands 34 gold. Sure. Maya start GL.
2
IBT- Change government to Feudalism.



Just kidding! Change the gov to Republic.
3
A Spanish archer is spotted near a bunch of undefended cities, rush a horseman.
IBT- AIs began building lots of stuff. Start some settlers.
6
IBT- Complete Heroic Epic.
7
Capture Pamplona, Spain is gone. Get Furs from Germany for Dyes and 25 gold (not to prevent wars but to keep our people happy, which is hard right now.)
IBT- 20 more turns of peace with Smoke Jaguar.
9
Denizli founded.

Got it.

What do I do now? There is no war? :confused: :hmm: :groucho: :D

You will have to come up with one... :mischief:

You're allowed wars to impress sophisticated young ladies(maybe wars and mudbats?) Just no more than 8 - # lux per age. Go settle the northern marshes. Or grab silks.

Not much happened until the barbarians sacked Madrid and destroyed the Great Wall!!! :cry:

I bought our way back to some kind of technology parity, built some new towns and built some galleys. We owe everybody but the Incas lots of money.

The silks deal expired so once we have some boats its's time to take them from the Inca. Just don't forget to cover our backs in the NE as there a little Inca town up there.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_450_AD.SAV)

Pre-turn
we could attack inca since the deal is up. we had 2 wars this age already, we have currently 3 luxes, means 3 more wars allowed
there is an island next to former spain, would like to settle it as well.

there isn't that much to report, started with 0gpt and 25g income, tried to build ducts to boost that. joined a few natives as well
we didn't gain a single tech, trading was totally out of question. we now have 109g and make 28gpt
we could build FP. we have to try to somehow get to MT and sipahis if possible. try and squeeze some more towns to increase our income
we got beaten in the race for that island
we should wait for chemistry to come up and then trade
and watch out that valley in the north, babs will pop there if we co not settle which I recommend

got it. d-man on deck

The AI is into wonder building. Otto and Cathy are at war. I built 3 cities. Cathy beat us to chem and has a monopoly on it. Our cash flow is a little better. I merged a few native workers into cities to help with the cash. The workers are irrigating to the NE peninsula. Need markets badly - IIRC we're running lux at 30% and using taxmen. Need a city in the plains to the SW of Instanbul. If we have a choice, I vote for grabbing the Incan silks that are just accross the Idiocy Channel.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_ak_550_AD.SAV

i have it, will play tomorrow,
can we have screenie perhaps.
I've noticed turn reports becoming shorter and shorter each time :lol:

I've noticed turn reports becoming shorter and shorter each time

I'm up in four as of now! Went all week with nothing to do and now I've got four on Sunday!

@d-man, :bump: ippity :bump:

:D

yo dman :bump:

I can't believe it...
I am loosing track of the games i am in... :blush:

Sorry guys, this is second time happened to me in past several days. :blush:
I will play ASAP.

I've got to buy the damn PDA just for this sole reason.

I can't believe it...
I am loosing track of the games i am in...

must be getting old... :lol:

I've got to buy the damn PDA just for this sole reason. :lol: how about paper and pen?

Played my turns.
will post as soon as weekend's RL issues are dealt with. :)

Ok here we go...
My log:

Pre-turn: I think one of the reasons we are dragging behind - lack of FP...
We need FP since C3C doesn't have second core idea FP doesn't have to wait for.
I switched Iznik from Granary to FP.
Also switched Riza to galley from harbor... Don't need a harbor there, but we should start building galleys for invasion.
Switched other builds... We don' tneed so many harbors, we would benefit if we build cheap libraries for cheap culture and
switched to courts in some places

I am sorry but self-research in our state of economy and on demigod level is shooting ourselves in the foot.
Drop sci. slider back to zero and go shoppin'....

Bought Chemistry from Russia for 83GPT+wines+173gold
Sold Chemistry to germany for Theology+Spices+24gold+3gpt
Sold Chemistry to Inca for Edu+Silks+9gold

Checking AIs again. Everybody is up Mus.Theory, Banking and Astro... Oh no Incas lack Banking.. will try to do trade.
Bought Banking from Maya for Chemistry+9gpt+35gold.
Ah... stupid Inca, why don't you want to trade Astronomy for Banking, must have close to research it themselves.

Guys, this is time to bump our economy a little, we aren't going to be able to compete ...
We even luck libraries in many core cities. I change builds from knights to libraries and banks.
I set research on Printing Press at max as a dare attempt to get exclusive right on tech AIs don't go after and then use it for trading.

T1. 560AD. Just doing peaceful stuff

T2-T6. 570AD-610AD. Same as above


T7. 620 Mayas and Germans have economics i might have a trade. I can buy Economics for 38gpt from Maya and trade for Astronomy with Russians. But really i can buy Astronomy for cheaper than that and we don't need economics... I decided not to do any trades here.

IBT Renewed furs deal with germany for dyes WM and little cash.

T8. 630 Nothing

T9. 640AD FP is built. Good... we will be much better now. I switched many builds to courthouses. We need to decrease corruption.
T10. 650AD 7 Turns to go until we have Printing Press... I hope it wasn't a waste of time.
Well, that's really something i wish i haven't done, but still let's hope it is not complete waste of time if we manage to trade it.
Switching tech now is even worse idea since we will loose all accumulated beacons.
We will be in much better shape one we get all the courthouses built and then rest of the infrastructure upgraded.
With 2 armies on main land we can defend from landing but we are too weak to invade until we have sipahis and better economy as a whole.
I am irrigiating tiles near Istanbul. We want to bring water to the tiles south of our capital where i founded new city.


Post-turn: I suggest primary goal is to beef up economy and level in tech with AIs.
We have extra luxes purchased and that helps to keep lux slider at 10%. Maybe we can even drop it to zero and hire some scientists in cities with no markets. Nobody has mettalurgy yet and i don't know if anyone has physics.
Russians were at war with old foe germans all the time.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak7-650AD.JPG

great turns d-man, only discovered it now, I think viper is up, but I can see him up in 2 more and he seems missing.

if, he doesn't post a got it, I suggest bede to take it next

I feel once we have sipahi, it's time to strike again and get the missing luxes

Got it. Will play tonight.

I'm not missing, just somewhat busy. I'll see if the F1 screen can take it.
Edit: Oh, Bede's got it.

Renew the wines deal with Bismarck for 13g+20gpt.

Do not renew the Dyes deal with Russia.

In 680 Inca come demanding Dyes but he buys them instead.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_680_00.jpg


The Russians start Newton's U and Smith's.

The Maya start Newton's.

In 690 d-man's PP gamble comes home and first thing I do is parlay a contact trade with Germany, getting his world map for a date with Pachahuti +6g.

Catherine will make this deal for Metallurgy:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_690_00.jpg

Maya will trade Astronomy for Printing Press 6g+21gpt. No deal.

Turn on the bunsen burners under Democracy.

The rest of the reign is spent tending to the infrastructure and fiddling the science budget and building a knight or two.

In 750 the silks and spices deals expire and I have to use Printing Press and Wine to Inca for a renewal of the silks. Germany didn't want to play for spices without most everything we owned. Even so there are taxmen and scientists in a lot of places to prevent rioting.

The other nations spent their research money on Military Tradition and it looks like we stand a good chance of a monopoly on Democracy, due in 5 with a lot of budget fiddling.

Tactically the turns look good. Strategic, I'm lost on where we're going. Tis Rat's problem since he's up. Does attacking the pink blob to the south make sense?

We are still a ways from attacking anyone, as we need to get to MT and build Sipahi.

If are stategy is get all the luxuries then Inca makes a good choice as they are handy.

I think Germany or Maya would make better targets as they are bigger.....

Tis Rat's problem since he's up. Does attacking the pink blob to the south make sense? what do I sense here? :rolleyes:
war? :cool: that's what I am waiting for in this game ever since we beat up Spain. let's get MT, sipahi and rock the boat.
Inca for a kick into GA and then the others. Russia too small, better get Maya and Germany

but hey, I read this...we traded dyes to them, means I can't really attack them :(
ok, guess I will have some builder turns tonight.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_850AD.SAV)

Pre-turn
we need MT for out UU, I can see the only target would be Maya since we have no deals with them
trade metal + WM for astronomy with Inca
since we play democracy gamble, squeeze everything a little and we can get it in 4 turns

1.760AD
trying to balance economy since we are almost broke

IT Russia and Germany sign peace

3.780AD
next turn we have democracy and nobody has it yet

4.790AD
gamble paid off, democracy at monopoly, now for trading :)
since we do not want any per turn arrangements with Maya, trade straight and get all 5 techs they are up :lol:
those are physics, MT, economics, navigation and Music Theory
get ToG, 220g and 8gpt for democracy from Russia
get spices and 75 for democracy from Germany, somehow they deny per turn deals
major MM and put science to single scientist to make money for either upgrading of knights or steal for tech

9.840AD
Russia and Maya know magnetism
get magnetism from Russia for 89gpt
we draw medicine :( Russia seems to have that as well

IT Germans finish Smith

10.850AD
seems germany drew medicine as well in their IT :), when they dealt Free Artistry with Russia for magnetism
we do have 1800g and still make 179gpt, enough to upgrade our knights, we should go after Maya first, they are just across
we can trigger our GA and start to self research after that
since we have currently 5 lux and entered a new age, we are allowed to fight 3 wars only

Yahoo!!! Great turns :goodjob:
Isn't that a great time to get our GA so we can build bunch of Sipahis and be able to self research Steam power at the same time..
On such a map COmmunism should be our government of choice...
I wouldn't try to research nationalism... Every single IA AI outthere is doing it right now.
Any objections???

Nice that the Press and Demo gambles paid off so handsomely!!!

Mayaland here we come.

all thanks to you guys, d-man and bede, we got a great deal with techs. I have never gotten 5 techs straight for 1 tech. I couldn't believe it first. our land is pretty lousy actually at the moment. I shipped one army ready to act as cover up for our sipahis. once we feel strong enough, ship over army + sips and get GA going

A five fer... wow.

@ viper - do you want a set or should I take it?

I'll take it, but if I get into the Industrial Age I may need to cut the turns a bit short.

viper, you try but we ARE in the IA already

It worked!

Great! Go stomp AI.

@ bede - you need to clean out your PMs. You've got too many stored and can't accept anymore :crazyeye:

IBT- Germany declared on Russia.
1
Upgraded some knights.
2
IBT- Maya build Newton's! Maya start Shakespeare's.
7
IBT- Inca sneak-attack us, declare war, and take Aydin. Germany demands 100 gold, I guess I'll say yes. Edrine riots because of loss of lux.
8
I'm mad at Pachacuti, send some troops to Arequipa (not enough to land on the mainland yet.)
9
Aydin captured. Enter our Golden Age. Science all the way up to 100%.
10
Ica captured.

If I've got the roster correct:
d-man -on deck, shopping for a PDA
viper -just played, F1 problems resolving
bede - watching sirian's ugly war
t-rat - played awhile ago
AK - up, finishing TR2 before I get to this

Science all the way up to 100%btw what does that exactly mean, viper? are we going for steam? how many turns? your turnlogs are always quite brief, so it's hard to tell

Losing 98 GPT, due in 7 turns. We have 2441 gold. Researching Steam Power.

I haven't forgotten, be patient, already played in 5 other SGs this weekend.

Recon: the only thing we have to fear is otto himself. Not quite sure why we're starting the war with arequipa. Will go with the flow. Why is there a settler in Seville? Inca have a one tile island.

Start the set by taking Arequipa and loading most of the forces on boats to send to the mainland. Build Folly Point. Raze Coriysomething. Spice deal ends and get it back for 29gpt from Otto. Russian and Inca embargo us. Incans land at Karabuk, have nothing but a warrior to fight with so give the city to Russia. Cankiri's has nothing but a horse to defend, so abandon it. Build Gallipoli.

We learn Steam in 1030. Sell it to Otto for Nationalism, 55g, 33gpt. Sell it to Smoke for FA, 275g, 66gpt. Sell it to Cathy for WM, 90g, 33gpt. Start on electricity.

Raze Twinkie. Here come the templars to counterattack.

Last turn - kill 3 templars, 2 spears, MDI, archer outside of Gallipoli..

Starting the war on the island threw me. I probably went too domestic on the builds. Dman can fix.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/idiotturns.jpg

I expect one of our steam trading partners to attack. Started the railnet. It's pathetic. Hopefully we've got rubber. For what it's worth, go kill pink and replace with combat settlers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Idiot_turns_1050_AD.SAV

I have it.

Ok... here we go..
Good news - Inca's are almost gone.
Bad news - we are about to be whipped by Germans.

and here comes turn log:

Switch couple of cities to libraries. Rush couple of sipahis.
Switch Zaragoza from Harbor to Galeon It is pop6 won't grow until after duct - harbor is really useless there and we have only one boat. I see Inca's caravel north from us and Galeon south. No troops up north. I will have to re-route couple of Sipahis to cover that region.
Rushed couple of Sipahis.
Sold luxes to Maya for 24gpt and 250gold

T1. 1060AD. Inca's Caravelup north definetely going towards us. MOving 2 Sipahis there. Waiting for the slow moving Incas SoD to arrive at Gallipoli next turn. Shipping Inca's slave to main land. We are very thin on workers.

IBT. As I thought Inca's landed 2 crusaders and a warrior near Madrid.

T2. 1070AD. Well, killed only one crusader and lost a Sipahi near Madrid. Decimated Inca's SoD near Gallipoli moving the settler covered by army towards what i think is a nice new city location on Inca's land.

IBT. Germans destroyed mother Russia

T3-4. 1080-1090 Mostly Logistic operations. Founded town of Yozgat.

T5. 1100AD. Lost 3 Sipahis but razed Cuzco yielding 5 slaves.

T6. 1110AD Captured Machi Picchu and Vilcas - both useless tundra cities.


IBT. Khhm..... Half of our cities in riot.... :( Should have launched CivAssist.... Mayans completed Sheakspear's

T7. 1120. Moving troop in attack position.

T8. 1130AD. Capture Vilcabamba, raze some other inca city. They are down to one city on the main island.
Electricity comes Sci. Methods in 8. Lux slider at 30%. Sell electricity to Maya for Communism. 210Gold and 84GPT.
I strongly suggest we revolt as soon as GAs are over. Sold electricity to germany for only 12gpt. But see no reason to keep it since maya will do it if we don't

T9. 1140AD. Crap... I made a mistake - Germany has industrialization now... :-( shouldn't have done all this trading previous turn. Razed last Inca's town on their home island. They are down to 2 cities and one of them on one tile island.

T10. 1150AD GAs are over and several cities are in riot again. :smoke: Houston - we have a problem, german cavalry platoons are approaching. (see picture below). Definetely smell smoke in the air. I suggest to trade them iron in exchange of Industrialization and MA against Incas. May be they won't declare if we do that and if they do we get Industrialization for free... But we are still in pretty bad situation, most of our troops on inca's land. Although there are 2 galeons nearby.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak7-1150AD1.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak7-1150AD2.JPG
and save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_dman_1150_AD.SAV)

holy **** dman

Can live with losing Bolu, but we need to keep Erdine.

In my little glass ball, I see a rabid, faceless monk, drooling or foaming at the mouth(@bede, I'm stupid, but I'm trying to bring in Rasputin here, not you, please take no offense) entangling the maya and the germans in a war

Got it.

I'll trade as d-man said. However, I don't consider 2 cavs a stack of doom, so I think we'll be safe. Edrine is building a sipahi, done next turn, and that can take Bolu if it's lost.

I would strike a deal or even better more for gpt and then ask them to leave. This would give us the chance to use the sipahi there first with a very good chance to beat 1 Cav. then we would not lose that city for sure

In my little glass ball, I see a rabid, faceless monk, drooling or foaming at the mouth(@bede, I'm stupid, but I'm trying to bring in Rasputin here, not you, please take no offense) entangling the maya and the germans in a war

:rotfl:

No offense taken.

It is certainly not stack of doom, but our coastal lines are so stretched and german galeons are all over the place...
We really should think about revolting to communism.
Will help to level corruption and to deal with WW.
The only problem -> We don't have courthouse in Istanbul and it is prebuilding ToE

We don't have courthouse in Istanbul and it is prebuilding ToEwait, it's our capital and would not have to have a court, no corruption in the capital as far as I know

We don't have courthouse in Istanbul
no corruption in the capital as far as I know


Now all the king's men are putting the idiot's brain togethor again. :rotfl:

I believe when you switch to communism corruption is spread evenly among all the cities including capital. I am not sure if it is different in C3C but in PTW corruption in capital can be very high unless courthouse is pre-built.

I wouldn't sweat a courthouse in the capitol, or even in the core cities, in C3C. The whole corruption model changed in C3C and these had as a side effect major changes to the way corruption works in Communism. The overall increase in tax revenue more than offsets any additional corruption loss in the capitol and the surrounding core.

I'm getting really busy right now, I don't think I'll be able to play this. Sorry :( .

Yo, Admiral, who's got the deck?

Bede's up, therat on deck

Aye, Aye, sir. Got the con.

Gonna need some ideas here gents:

Any reason to keep making war on the Inca? We have their home island and the silks we were looking for. We won't be able to eliminate their last island until AmphibWarfare so the flip risk is still with us even if we take their capitol next to Germany.

Right now I'm tempted to sign a peace treaty then, abandon the Inca towns and rebuild on the island using our own folks.

sounds reasonable, maybe we can found in such a way that we even get better placements? We need to concentrate on fighting Germans anyway

Thanks, ThERat. Will proceed as writ.

As soon as a new lux is hooked up, any war that was being fought with the previous owner must end if at all possible. Wouldn't want bede to blow the variant... ;)

I need to get somehting on the table here:

Everything is proceeding quite nicely. Bismarck took the bait and declared so I wiped out his forces attacking Bolu then moved forward and razed his town on the peninsula and am setting up for New Bremen.

Anyway, our research effort is proceeding as planned and the Army is still building in Istanbul, as a ToE pre-build and research will finish and the build switch with about ten turns to go...Anyhoo, what techs do we want? We really have no suitable place to build the big lake with Hoover...

An alternative would be to delay the build of ToE while we research or buy up to the precursor of Flight, take Flight, then an expensive Modern Era tech.

What do you all think, or am should we just do the Atomic Theory/Electronics thing and use those two expensive ones to get a bunch of other IA techs in trade.

BTW we can do >400 beakers per turn without straining the budget...

Or we can just forget ToE and put our shields into things like factories and coal plants?

This one
delay the build of ToE while we research or buy up to the precursor of Flight, take Flight, then an expensive Modern Era tech.


The message I have entered is too short, therefore I am adding to it.

Otto takes the bait, hook, line, and sinker

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1150_00.jpg

so the peace treaty is signed with the Inca

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1150_01.jpg

And then Bismarck falls into the trap

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1150_02.jpg

and our veteran Sipahi earns his golden spurs killing one of Bismarck's cavlarymen.

The second troupe of Otto's mounted clowns gets driven back by the now elite Sipahi.

The next thirty years are uneventful as troops are shifted from the island to the homeland. In 1170 strike a deal with Maya for Incense

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1170_00.jpg

And discover he is building Universal Suffrage.

In 1180 the first of the German towns in Fingerland is burned to the ground and two German cavalry at Madrid kill two of ours before being dispatched by an archers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1180_00.jpg

From 1180 to 1200 are spent learning Scientific Method and getting rails put in at the capitol and fending off another full bodied landing by the Germans in the far north at Madrid. His cavalry dies.

Then the Great Smoky Jaguar (better gets those rings replaced) comes calling and I pay him off as judging from the pocketbook rape we have committed he is probably broke and will definitely go to war.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1200_00.jpg

Seems I may have been right because when I looked in the trade screen that 35g was all he had in his bank.

On to the next reel.....

The year 1210 brings another German landing at Madrid

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1210_00.jpg

which is dealt with handily but not kindly.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1210_01.jpg

I was curious as to the state of play in Mayaland so in 1210 took a look into his capitol

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1210_02.jpg

Inneresting! Note the 27g in the treasury and the mere 19spt. (Istanbul makes 31-without a factory) The other item of interest is the 40% science spending. :mischief:

He wants a lot for an alliance against Germany and the German war shouldn't last much longer anyway.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1210_03.jpg

I'd rather keep the money at home and in the science budget.

In 1220 the German appears again at Madrid

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1220_00.jpg

and once more his troopers join their comrades in Valhalla

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1220_01.jpg

The last German town in Fingerland is burned

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1220_02.jpg

and Otto gives up his last gold pieces to stop wasting his cavalry in fruitless landings at Madrid

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1220_03.jpg

And that was pretty much that.

Drove a lot of spikes and built some towns on the Inca island trying to cover the coast as much as possible.

Scientific Method came in right on time but after a short conference with the Admiral swapped the build at Istanbul to a factory, followed by a coal plant.

Madrid has been a perennial problem child and is once again rioting. (Those damn hot-blooded Spainards.)

We are not a shield rich nation. We have at best three cities which deserve factories. We are, however, commerce rich. All those coastlines, so we had best take advantage of it and build a ton of banks and stock exchanges, accordingly I am running hard towards the Daddy Warbucks technolgy.

Geopolitically we still have deals running with Maya but they are our next best target. Perhaps a little German-Mayan prizefight while we watch from the sidelines as we have no navy to launch an invasion with. Two galleons does not a SoD carry.

got it, playing right now

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_1300AD.SAV)

Pre-turn
10 builder turns, since Maya treaties go for another 12 turns. we want to delay ToE until flight, brave attempt, let's see
ok, nobody built that tech yet, so far so good, see that RP is on the table, and Germans are hard up for iron
trade iron for RP (they actually have a source up north, maybe not connected by a harbor, fools :lol:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak71250.jpg
RP and 5gpt for iron then, ok civil engineers, your turn now

1.1255AD
fringe towns are too mined, need to change to food and specialsts after RR
New Uskudar founded

2.1260AD
coal plant finished in Istanbul, go for army prebuild in case we need to swap to ToE (which needs 10 turns)

3.1265AD
RR

IT coporation is in, next up refining in 12 :eek:

4.1270AD
more RR and MM

IT start of ToE by Germans in Vladivostoc :smoke: and Maya in Copan :(

5.1275AD
swap our prebuild and we will get ToE in 7
switch off research since we can't get any tech before ToE comes in anyway
we make 371gpt

6.1280AD

7.1285AD
core RR complete

8. 1290AD
more RR and MM

9. 1295AD

10.1300AD
build infra only, we need to build up the military if we want to go for war next
our income is at 287gpt now at 100% tax
Germans and Maya just got espionage, but they still lack corporation
that would be their next research I reckon. I did not do any trades so we can decide whom we want to target next
I vote for Germans, since they are the monster and according to our rules, they have 2 lux, we need them, don't we
ToE in 2, team decision which techs we chose. maybe we select AT and electronics to have some nice trading opportunities
our tech pace is pretty slow still. We might want to go for steals and trades first

Got it. Holding for input on the ToE techs.

@AK, what happened to your own game? just play and get AT and electronics for resale value

brain cells are dying. I forgot about this. RL has been evil. I'll get this up tomorrow.

Sorry for the delay.

1305: Vilacamba deposes. WtF? Flip risk was .490. Lost an army! Change builds in flipper cities to culture.

IT: ToE finishes and the idiot goes psycho. Get refinng and steel. Ottos have the only rivers on the planet. running for tanks

1310: worker stuff. move units to help with flips. We need artillery.

IT: Incense deal ends. Gittem' back for wines and silkes.

Flippers have me po'd. Can't attack the inca cause of the island one tile city.

Otto finishes US in the post 1325 IT.

1335 IT: furs deal runs. Get them back. We give steel, they give spices, WM, 103g, 5gpt.

trade smoke steel for 13gpt + 177g

More builder stuff to the end. Went really domestic here. need art and inf to go conquer the maya. We're running hard on research to tanks. The idiot gene kicked in, I think I got spies somewhere. We should be able to steal as needed. Someday I'll be literate in at least one language, unlike Commander T who is literate in 5 and 30 years younger.

Build inf, art and transports and prepare to invade maya. http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Conquests_Autosave_1350_AD.SAV

:bump: d-man?

BTW, I'm going to be gone 3/24/05 through 3/31/05. I'll also be pretty busy this weekend, so I'll most likely need a skip.

I have it... Sorry about this. :blush:
I didn't see a roster and lost the track of who's following whom...

Allright, here i come with request to skip me.
My dear spouse decided it's time to repaint our house (well, not entire house but living room and halls). So guess what I've been doing this weekend and doesn't look like i am finishing anytime soon.
Please forgive me and allow me to skip this time around. :blush: (my first skip ever in SGs.)

dman - skip
viper - up? yea or nay?
bede - on deck or up depending on viper

I could probably play this tomorrow, so... got it.

F1 screen is acting up again. Need a skip.

TgomTG says got it...

First thing I gotta do is remove that Incan blight from Silk Island. So load up some Sipahis in a boat and ship them across.

Then I notice that the resource deals with Germany are past their expire date. Renew the iron alone for more than what he was paying for iron and luxuries before and get spices in the package, then get 27gpt more for Silks.

Our army is only half the size it should be, we have 94 free and only 39 effectives.

1355
Sell some more luxuries to Germany to fund our research into Combustion and pick up enough to cover a 20gpt deficit.

1360
Germany learns Refining and has no Oil. Maya learns Refining and does have oil.

There is a settler ready to replace Vilicabamba so it is time to spank the Inca again. Vilicabamba is no more and we take no casualties.

Germany will ally with us for Wines and will pay 43g+13gpt for the privilege. :cool:

1365-1370
Germans take the Incan capitol on the shared island. Inca are now a one tile one-city wonder.

1375-1380
Inca have taken back Andahuaylas.

1385-1400
Much time spent working the citizenry around to get the best deal on research and the economy. Tanks are due in 7 with an 80% science budget and +96pgt. We are so over the OCN for this map and this civ it's not even funny. Revolting to Communism or even Democracy would make all the island reasonably productive. Once the third army was built I started the Pentagon in Istanbul. If we want to go Red we still need the IA and SPHQ.

If you want efficiency citizen assignments need to be validated and rearranged every single turn. Otherwise just turn all the specialists into tax guys and live with the overruns and underruns. Be careful where you put scientists: if a town has a library and a university and an uncorrupted surplus of gold putting a scientist in the town will reduce the beaker count and the revenue to the treasury! Use a cop or a tax collector instead. A cop will raise the beaker count and the tax revenue. A tax collector will increase tax revenue but may actually cost you something if the town has a bank and stock exchange.

Built a few more Sipahis and loaded up the armies with them. They will come in handy when we invade Maya...We are the scientific leaders right now as we are up Mass Production on the Maya and Germany. That is surprising to me as both are Democracies and we are feeding them both luxuries.

We are stuck with three native luxuries and will need to go to war with somebody if we want to own them all. Germany has three that we need Maya, only one. Or we could aim for the stars....

Warfare=Commmunism, Space=Democracy. Which way the Opium Barons? I think Democracy fits the story better....

Funny looking landform we're on here. But look at all those cities and towns:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_00.jpg

does that mean I am up? or dman?

edit: actually before continuing to play I think we should decide warpath or SS. that would immediately impact the game and I suggest to revolt to either government whichever path we choose

bede - just played
therat - up
AK - on deck

Lets go demo. I've had enough work on my communist theory.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_1475AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
democracy it is
since we are going peaceful, change pentagon to IA
MT in 6, will try to get IA and that first then revolt

1.1405AD
improving things

2.1410AD
zzzz

3. 1415AD

IT we get IA

4.1420AD
Germany and Maya have AT now
we trade Maya Mass Production for AT, 20g and 31gpt

5.1425AD
zzzz

6.1430AD
MT in at monopoly, going to revolt, we draw 8 turns of anarchy
optimise growth and revenue and we make 273gpt at the moment

7.1435AD
fur deal with Germany ends, we are getting happiness problems
MM sicne I don't want to strike a deal for lux in anarchy, that would be plain wastage

zzzz anarchy zzzz

10.1450AD
next turn a few deals end and we might lose some lux, go for it now
ship Germany Mass Production + 4gpt for ivory and furs

IT we lose spices and a huge gpt payment from Germany

11. 1455AD
Germany has flight now, but trading too expensive even with MT as addition, hold on

12. 1460AD
don't feel like fuelling Germany with 3 lux,

IT renew lux deal with Maya, but cancel silks deal with Germany income drops to 155gpt

13. 1465AD

IT cancel dyes deal

14. 1470AD
we are a democracy, both know Flight and Electronics
plant a spy in Berlin
trade MT for electronic, spices and 4gpt from Germany
trade oil for flight and 20g from Maya
we draw ecology, Germany has computers
research to fission at 80% at 12 turns :(

15. 1475AD
I am not sure whether it is worth to even research at this rate break even is 70% science and we need 13 turns
Maybe we should go for steals we could make around 500gpt, I think that's wiser
to test the waters steal Computers carefully from Germany and succeed :lol:
depending on where we head to, either build labs or stock exchanges etc.

thanks for taking the anarchy. got it

friendly :bump:

please skip me until 3/30 - got 1/2 inch of water in the basement to clean up

I have it then.
Will play tomorrow

viper - on deck

Quite boring 10 turns. Didn't do much of anything.
Re-arranged some tiles. Joined few native workers to the cities.
Self-researched Fussion and switched to Miniaturization.
Changed istanbul to UN (we don't really need SETI, this wonder is only good if you have Copernicus and Newtons built in the same city).
Changed Iznik to SETI as a pre-build for Internet - this one we really want to build to get research lab in each and every city.
We also want offshore platforms to get some extrashields for our coastal cities.
We have only 2 cities building military right now - artillery.
We can trade with AIs, but they won't give us much money anyways next player to decide on tradings.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak7-1525AD.JPG

and save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_dman_1525_AD.SAV)

roster check:
d-man - just played
viper - need a yea or nay in 24
bede (wet, temp, old) - if the description fits...
t-rat - waiting patiently
AK - finally finished cleaning up water in basement. Igor is now happy that his world is dry and clean.

vipr on vacation. Got it.

Nicely setup for the two critical buildings, d-man. :goodjob:

There was quite a lot to do in these ten as managing the research burn and the tax revenue was quite a challenge. So instead of being broke and knowing how to make things smaller (used to use pills for that, BTW, just ask Alice, or Grace) we have nearly 1000g in the bank, the Internet will finish on the opener, and we can build rockets and Marines, too. And the Marines killed off the Inca.

Fiddled with the citizens and did take one turn off the research to Miniturization with no reduction in tax revenue. It slowed down some building projects but nothing really critical.

Germans build Hoover's Dam in 1525 and our Uranium depletes and nobody else has any.....except the Maya and they have at least three. So, maybe sell Fission to Germany to finance the burn to the Internet and hope he decides to declare war on the Maya for uranium....so we can join in, defensively of course, and just maybe we can win the UN vote if it comes to that. To, make that work we need to make the Inca disappear so I plant a spy in Vitcos and discover no, that is none, zero, nada, defenders. Germany will include AmphibWar in the deal for Fission, so where are the transports? On the other side of the island, of course.

Anyway the deal is done, and a Marine is ordered to finish about the time the transports get within range.

In 1530 Germany and Inca are at peace and the Germans start the UN.

In 1550 a single Marine strolls onto the dock at Vitcos and the Strong Inca are no more.

Big news of 1550:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1550_00.jpg

Germans and Maya learn Rocketry and we need to know where the Aluminium is so make this trade with Germany, picking up some more gold and furs with it:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07_1555_00.jpg


We have Aluminium but Uranium is currently Unobtainium.

In 1565 the Incense deal with Smoke expires and I choose not to renew. If we need to join a Uranium War I don't want my hands tied. Unfortunately Folly Point does a foolish thing and riots.

In 1570 Miniturization comes in and research is set to Sanitation. We need Hospitals in a few places on the coast and could use it as trade bait for something....like money or green stuff that fuels rockets and makes big booms.

Send Otto some fine silks for cash and credit...and I have done all the damage I can do in ten turns.

When the Internet finishes with all the Research Labs we will have we will be at 950 beakers per turn or thereabouts at 60% in the science budget . With a little scientist management we will get close to 1000 beakers per turn. That produces Space in less than ten and leaves some coin for the kitty.

We shouldn't have any problem getting cash out of Otto as he has a real appetitie for our silks, wines and other stuff. The Maya could use our oil if we wanted to enter into trading with them. Whether we can trade for uranium will be the deciding factor. If we have to take it from him then let his engines run dry.


Roster check:

t-rat - it's all yours
AK - Sorry I used your Marine landing AK. Maybe you will get a chance against the Maya.

nice job bede. don't worry about the marines, it's the paratroops and heli's I wanna play with. I still say a paratroop army should be able to airdrop.

nice job bede. don't worry about the marines, it's the paratroops and heli's I wanna play with. I still say a paratroop army should be able to airdrophey, isn't that the goal of AK8, which you haven't played for ages :bump:

anyway, got it, trying to get us closer to that spaceship and uranium? we need to acquire it for our launch, let's see what we can do there.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7_1625AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
MM a little but nth much to do, of course after Bede

IT we get the Internet

1.1580AD
surprisingly Sanitation still in 2, lower science

IT get wall street

2.1585AD
lower science some more and we make 478gpt

IT Sanitation in, go for space flight at full steam (100%) in 7

3 1590AD
MM to minimise loss and we make -78gpt but get it in 7

IT Maya start Seti

4. 1595AD
nth much

5.1600AD
zzzz

IT Istanbul get stock exchange, go for army prebuild

6.1605AD
Space drops to 3 at 90%

7.1610AD
zzzz

IT Maya demand wine, won't give in and they bugger off

there is a call for a UN vote, politely decline
IT Vitoria is now American and Asyut might well be so soon
Sumer prefers to cancel RoP, ok

8. 1615AD
zzzz

IT Space Flight is in, next is synthetic fibers in 7 at 90%

9. 1620AD
Salamance is not happy, think we better acquire some luxes
sell sanitation to Germans for some spices
change iznik from STI to Apollo and we will get it in 2
we can then swap prebuilds in Istanbul and Uskudar

10.1625AD
at one point we need to get uranium, but for now the next 5 parts require only aluminum

So time to make a military build-up. Which makes hospitals in the coastal towns really important for the added income.

A couple of battleships, a couple more transports full of Marines, two transports of MechInf and some bombers.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AdmK07BattlePlan.jpg

Secondary

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ADMK01.jpg

And some really spiffy timing so that Uranium needing parts finish as soon as the Uranium ships...

got it. deploying igor to the counting machine.

IT: Iznik Apollo > Docking Bay. Gems deal expires. Smoke has 4 sources of green goo!

1630: Uncomfortable with all this commercial stuff. MM for more shields.

IT: Smoke finishes Manhattan, looks for more vermouth.

Not much until 1645 IT. Germans add docking bay.

1650: Drop Science to 10%

IT: finish syn fibers, start satellities. The war with Germany will be nuclear. Otto has no oil, but 3 or 4 sources of aluminum.

1655: Igor takes control of the economic front after a bender. Trade Otto Miniturization for ivory, furs, gems, fascism, WM, 63 gpt. I become uneasy that we've scammed Otto out of too much and sign RoP with him, giving wines and dyes.

IT: Otto declares on Smoke. Mayans finish Manhattan Project. Fortunately, he's really backwards.

1665 IT: Watching the fleets gather for the Battle of Jutland. Boats moving everywhere. Especially amusing is watching Otto's destroyer sink a Mayan carrier. Germans add engine to their ship.

1670: Smoke sorties another carrier. Trade Otto silks for 48gpt and WM.

I will try to get a war plan up soon. I beg to differ with sensei on the war plan. Smoke & Otto at war is sweet. having never attained a diplo VC, could we get one here or would Otto and Smoke vote for themselves because they are over 25%?

We're researching satellites so we can build ICBM's for Otto. Recommend both Sipahi armies stay home for defense. Feel we need 3 more bombers before immediately planting a spy on Smoke. Next player will need to play with the slider since I've burned the money. As a bonus goal we should also try to grab a lux from Smoke. IMIO, we should soon turn off research.

That's all for now. Igor has joined eharmony, have to go explain orges and girls. @bede - please forward Hunchback of Notre Dame asap.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Barons_1675_AD.SAV

ps started some SAMs. We have a 4 unit MA army and a marine army in progress. i would have started a para army for experimentation, but I thought you'd kill Igor.

Our rival in the Space Race is Bismarck and he has gone to war with Maya to get the uranium he needs.

Our research path should go Nuclear Power, The Laser, Robotics, Super Conductor, Satellites. The parts needing uranium are Stasis Chamber(Robotics) and Fuel Cells(Superconductor) The Stasis Chamber needs 320 shields, Fuel Cells only 160. Just before learning Robotics try to buy uranium from Maya and pay whatever it takes. With pre-builds in place we should be able to learn those two techs and finish the parts in less than 20 turns (actualy almost exactly 19). Just make sure to do the uranium buy just before learning the techs and be careful on the timing of the builds, otherwise we won't be able to touch it.

At 70% science we produce 944 beakers per turn and adding 23 scientists (which we can do easily) will put us at an even 1000. We need a little over 50,000 beakers for the remaining techs. Selling some oil to the Germans is an option if we find we need money in the budget.

We should be on our way to Alpha C in about 60 turns.

UN vote is not good option as it will deadlock between the three of us. Calling the vote poses no risk but I know we won't win it and the poiliticking necessary to try will be very costly.

IIRC, I play after Igor.

I got it and will play sometimes this weekend using Bede's guidelines.

Well, i probably have chosen a controversial way to do business.
I secured uranium and extra lux from Maya on pre-turn and at the same time sold oil to germany for 308gpt and all their cash.
Micromanaged our country to produced max science. Got sattelites in 2 turns, superconductors in 6.
Switched to Nuclear power in 5 turns at 100% research plus mm with scientists.
I believe I played one extra-turn and we will get nuclear power in 2 turns.
One lux Deal with germany expired at the end of my turn but i didn't renew.
Once bigger deals expire we can sell them our extra tech and get money and more than a single luxury.
In 9 turns we will need to renew uranium deal - there is only one part left that requires uranium and required tech will be aquired in about 14 to 16 turns. I've started palace in Uskudar as a pre-build.

We have completed builds of most of the parts for the space ship. We missing only 2 parts and 2,5 techs to go.

Germany completed 2 parts of their space ship.
We have superconductors and germany misses it. SInce their have fascist form of government their tech rate should be quite slow even on DG level so we are quite safe and shouldn't be worried much about them beeing our rival.

Mayas have money (first time during my turns) and i suggest we sell them some luxes and sanitation for all they have to support their war against germany. That will help us to keep positive balance even with 100% research rate.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak7-spaceship.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ak7-techs.JPG

...and save... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7-dman-1730AD.SAV)

It will be interesting to see if Maya will renew the uranium deal.

It will be interesting to see if Maya will renew the uranium deal.

IIRC, We are 4 techs in front of them... I am sure they will renew for those "valuable" technologies they are missing.

I don't believe Germans will manage to cut 2 out of 3 uraniums source Maya's have.

Bede, i will let you to cut my tongue if they don't... and just for such a case I've been building more MAs to claim that uranium. :devil:
We shall see in exactly 9 turns.

I am more worried about renewing deals with Germany.
They were cash cow during my turns and that allowed me to run 100% science... I hope we can keep milking them until the end of this game.

Nice turns dman. I was too focused to grabbing the tech and uranium by brute force. But you didn't use the iron horse cavalry... :lol:

interesting, whether the AI would be that dumb to give us the required lux for victory. if they were human, they would ensure nobody can get it ever. but we are talking about C3C AI.... :rolleyes:

Guys, I think you are going to hear something really funny.

I have only one question to Admiral.
Has Igor by a chance disabled space victory as a possibility during the initial game setup? :crazyeye:

While not beeing a party pooper i just wanted to play it for myself and here is what i have.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/AK7-screwup.JPG

and this is 3 turns after i built last part.
I can't even press F10 anymore - nothing happens. No launch, no Alpha Centauri. I am stuck on Earth.

:ack:

Has Igor by a chance disabled space victory as a possibility during the initial game setup? :crazyeye: :rolleyes: :lol:

Now that's REALLY funny!! :lol: I must've of really rubbed off on poor Igor.

Oh, no....

I'm guessing that if Space is turned off, it's a game where only Domination or Conquest are allowed. Maybe we'll get to see some of the modern units being used.

Something screwy here. If Space were disabled we would not have been able to even start Apollo Program, likewise for Diplomatic, if it were disabled we would not have been able to start the UN.

@d-man - do you still have a source of uranium? If the deal with Maya has run out maybe you need it to launch?

Something screwy here. If Space were disabled we would not have been able to even start Apollo Program, likewise for Diplomatic, if it were disabled we would not have been able to start the UN.

@d-man - do you still have a source of uranium? If the deal with Maya has run out maybe you need it to launch?

I thought it was something screwy.. and Yes... I do have uranium...
Well... next player can achieve what i did in just 13 turns so to avoid speculation we can just play.. May be it is just my PC or something.
We can declare ourselves victorious based on 10 completed space ship parts. :)
Or spent next several months beating crap of Germans and Mayas.
Keep in mind both of them have over 100K culture and we have less than 40.
So if we eliminate one of them the other one will automatically win 100K cultural victory.

Igor don't usually mess with the VC, but if Igor started this game after playing a variant, it may have defaulted the variant VC. Igor hope Bede's right.

are we officially going to finish this with space (as shadow played by d-man) I'd say if we can build 10 parts and for whatever reason the launch button jams, we declare the SS launched and game won.

Who is up?

Igor don't usually mess with the VC, but if Igor started this game after playing a variant, it may have defaulted the variant VC. Igor hope Bede's right.

Just opened the save file in C3MT and it reports all victory consitions enabled, so that is not the problem.

@vipr, can you play? How's F1? And WTH is F1 anyway?

I'll leave this up to the team. Where do we go from here? :confused:

F1 is the domestic advisor screen. Considering how good you are at micromanaging, I'm sure you know the importance of it, I can't live without it. But if it's just 2 turns or so, I could.

is anyone finishing this? viper, can you make it, if not let us know and bede can finish it, or if nobody wants, I will do so. Don't like to have this game unfinished and on my list.

it was a nice game, so let's just finish it. viper? what's up?

I'm busy and I don't think I'd have the time, so skip me...

Will aim for a finish today.

I played the turns just like d-man did and once we finish the last part, F10 is somehow disabled

I therefore conclude it's borken and we won the game via SS, I want this game to be done

congratulations team, it was a tough start but we did well

I got the same result than failed to post.

We made it but then somebody turned off the rocket:sad:

This is very odd... but somehow amusing...

Somehow i feel personally responsible for the screwing up the end of this game...
Please accept my apologies :blush:

@d-man - not your fault.

I'm with Tomo. I finding this a very fitting end to an idiot game. :lol:

@ t-rat, put this down as a victory in sig.

@d-man - not your fault. dmanakho, why do you say that? we won the way we wanted, if someone :mischief: did meddle with the victory conditions unknowningly, that's not your fault.

@ t-rat, put this down as a victory in sig. you bet I did