SGOTM6 - Celts. Maintenance Thread.

Please use this thread for raising issues about the game. Do not post spoiler information here. Bugs, team member drop outs, in fact anything of general interest to the game participants may be posted here.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM6-START.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Celts
World size - 100 wide by 130 high.
Difficulty Emperor (approximately)
Landform Contiguous Pangea
The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Here are a couple of links you might find useful.

The Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1733966&postcount=61)
The GOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71788)
Upload Save to Server (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php)
Download Save from Server (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)

This Months' sponsored variant is Cultural Celtic Communists the rules for which are as follows.

1. The only allowed governments are despotism and communism.
2. You must win by 100K victory condition.

Setting Up To Play.
Anyone who did not play SGOTM5 OR is using a different version of the software for this game needs to follow at least one of the steps set out below. Please read the post carefully and follow the step(s) that are relevent to you. If you mess it up, don't panic. Just e-mail me at S_GOTM@gotm.civfanatics.net or PM me or any of the GOTM staff. We will help you.

SGOTM5 Setup for ALL PTW Players

Those people wishing to play SGOTM6 using the PTW software need to download >>THIS<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM-graphics.zip) file. Unzip this file into your Civilization/Civ3PTW/Scenarios directory. If you do this correctly you should find a new SGOTM folder in your Scenarios directory. If you wish to mess around with the resources files, then there is a readme file in this new directory that tells you how. Otherwise, you can just go ahead and play the game with the set of resources graphics I have provided by default.

People who have previously played PTW need to rename the folder in their Civ3PTW\Scenarios directory from SGOTM4 or SGOTM5 to plain SGOTM It just gives me one thing less to check for future games.

SGOTM5 Setup for CivIII 1.29f players (including Mac) who have not setup to play GOTM25 or later.

If you are playing Civ III 1.29f and have not played GOTM25 or beyond, then you need to download and install some game packs that add some different units, resources and civilizations to the game.

Windows players can get the install packs at the following links:

GOTM 21 Full setup:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm21_v129_full_setup.exe

GOTM22 Add-On Setup:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm22_v129_add_on_setup.exe

GOTM23 Add-on Setup:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm23_v129_add_on_setup.exe

GOTM24 Add-On Setup:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm24_v129_add_on_setup.exe

GOTM 25 Add-On Setup:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/gotm25_v129_add_on_setup.exe

Mac OS X players with CivIII v.1.29b2 can use a single installer:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/GOTM_Mac_Installer.dmg.zip

MS Windows players using 1.29f can now use a single installer too.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/GOTM_Full_Mod.exe

All you need to do is download these, and then install them in the order that you download them. The key point is to make sure that when the installer asks where you want to install to, that you make sure that it installs to the directory where you installed Civ to in the first place. You now need to go ahead and install the correct resource pack for the game. Instructions for this are set out in the next section.

Resources and PediaIcons setup for ALL CivIII 1.29f players

Because there are a lot of people who play SGOTM but not GOTM, I have re-mapped the resources files so that they will not interfere with a "normal" game. The new resources can be found >>HERE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM4-129f.zip). Unzip this file into your Civilization/Scenarios directory. If you do this correctly you should find a new directory called SGOTM4 in your Scenarios folder. If you open this new folder you will find a readme file which explains how to install the files you require for this game.

Resources and PediaIcons setup for ALL Conquests players.

You must have Conquests patched to 1.22 in order to play.
Download >>THIS<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM-C3C.zip) file and unzip it into your Civilization/Conquests/Scenarios Directory. If you do this correctly you should find a Folder named SGOTM in this directory which contains the GOTM resources and the files that enable to the software to handle them.

If you have any problems with either the installation of these files, changing the resources.pcx files or any error messages playing the game of the month, then please don't hesitate to e-mail or send a PM to myself or one of the GOTM staff. :)

Test Saves

CivIII 1.29f (Vanilla)
Vanilla test save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM06-vanilla_test.SAV)

CivIII PTW
PTW test save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM-PTW-testsave.SAV)

CivIII Conquests
C3C Test Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM6-test.SAV)

You should see goats in the start position for each software version. If you see a different graphic then you probably have the "old" GOTM resource pack installed. If you see no bonus at all then you probably have the default "out of the box" resources installed.

Rule changes for this game

The SGOTM mod is based on the GOTM23 setup. But there are various changes that players need to be aware of.

1.29f/PTW Equivalency changes.
1. All the Civs that are included in PTW but are missing from 1.29f have been added to 1.29f.
2. Medeivel Infantry and Guerilla have been added to 1.29f.
3. All Starting workers are now called eqWorker in both versions of the software. Eqworkers cannot be bought, sold or disbanded. Eqworkers cannot be built. The standard Worker has not changed in any respect, and has exactly the same functionality as in 1.29f.
4. Outposts, airfields and Radar Towers cannot be built by the PTW workers, or by any other method.
5. All flavour units have been removed from both versions of the software.
6. All flavour civilisations have been removed from both versions of the software.
7. Most Modern units have been given the same stats as in C3C or as near as the limit of the hardcoded values in 1.29f. allow. Lethal Land or Sea Bombardment has not been implemented for any units.
8. The Mongolian UU is now A/D/M 3/2/2 with zone of control. It costs 50 shields to build, requires horses and horseback riding. It gets no movement bonus on mountains. Unfortunately this change is forced, since it is not possible to implement the movement bonus for the standard Keshik in 1.29f.

Gameplay Equalisation.
1. War mobilisation has been reinstated in both versions of the software. It becomes available with the discovery of Nationalism as in the original game.
2. Leaders cannot hurry great wonders or small wonders. They may however be disbanded for 250 shields.
3. The Heroic Epic no longer requires a victorious Army in the field. It is now a small wonder that is available with the discovery of warrior code. This may be used to reduce the disadvantage that players attempting a non-military victory have due to not being able to rush wonders. It also means that players and teams persuing a military victory will be more likely to face AI armies.
4. Differential Naval Movement is engaged by default.
5. It is not possible to pop settlers from huts.
Reporting of Errors and Ommissions is welcomed and should be posted in this thread.

C3C
1. Added GOTM Resources.
2. Removed C3C Specific Resources
3. Swapped start unit 1 with start unit 2 (for popping workers)
4. Swapped start unit 1 with start unit 2 in difficulty levels.
5. Changed upgrade cost to 2 (was 3)
6. Changed tech rate from 240 to 300 (OCN left unchanged at 20)
7. Changed standard map size to 100X130
8. Modified AI start units to Demi-God level to compensate for agricultural trait. Added and removed units from specific AI civs for gameplay reasons.

Map changes for C3C
1. Additional goody huts placed in certain locations to increase early game tech rate.
2. Barbarian camps relocated to avoid problems with the NOAIPatrol Bug.

Open Issues List
1. Celtic and Mongol UU is not built by AI in PTW/1.29f(Seen in SGOTM5). Possible resolution to decrease cost from 50g to 40g as C3C.
2. Differential Naval movemement not engaged for C3C. Implement for SGOTM7
3. 1.29f/PTW Leader implementation is poor. Reduces gameplay experience. No Solution identified.
4. Cities may be popped from goody-huts. Temporary work-around - Place goody huts close to human start on mountains.
5. Variation in anarchy periods is unfair for cultural victory conditions. Temporary workaround - Use religious Civ for cultural games.
6. Progress graphs on Download page not relevent for all variants. Addition of graphs for Culture, surplus food, shield production,net income,city count,total unit count (perhaps)) to be added.
7. Separation of C3C from other games not possible in download page. Software to be recoded.
8. Download page references Gold and Green Laurels. Needs updating.
9. Coding required in submission software to check diplomacy. Required for AW variant scrutiny.
10. Rules, change history and bug list need updating and placing in single location.
11. Team strength moderation may be inadequate. Community evaluation required.
12. Playtesting check list inadequate, not enough time for thorough approach. Solution - Release the clean bic/bix/biq to the playing community.
13. Reducing number of new variants - disparity between builder/warmonger variants.
14. Agreed Sanctions for rule breaking to be solidified. Continue to monitor cross-lurking and reloading to identify extent of problem.

Tried to test the resources download for PTW and got this message.

Not Found
The requested URL /uploads8/SGOTM5-testa.SAV was not found on this server.

I looked in the uploads8 folder to see if it was there under a different name but it stopped at J.

It looks like the uploads8 folder has been cleaned out. I'll upload it again in a couple of hours.

EDIT: Link Fixed

PopQuiz: Will the C3C version feature the original or new traits for the Celts?

C3C will be basically out of the box. It's C3C with GOTM resources.
The Celts are agricultural and Religious for C3C and Religious and Militaristic (I think :eek: ) for PTW/Vanilla

Just for information. The Jason best date for 100K is 1270AD for Vanilla/PTW and 1385AD for conquests (not 1375AD as I told someone recently :blush: ). I'm not sure if this means anything however.

Just curious.. since this is a custom size map.. is the limit for conquests still 100k, or a higher value like on large and huge maps?

Mathematically, it should be 107.5K... Or something like that...

I set it manually to 100K - Well actually I changed the standard map size to 100X130 and changed the OCN and tech cost to mid-way between standard and large.

The Team Threads are up. Sign-in people please to let your captains know you are around. :)

I'm still getting a broken link for the ptw test save. If I successfully played sgotm5, will I be ok for sgotm6?

Thanks, m-b. Alles in ordnung.

I am also getting a broken link for the PTW test save.

I am also getting a broken link for the PTW test save.

Since the Uploads9 folder has been in use, all links to previous saves seem to have disappeared.

I've generated a new test save and fixed the link in the first post.

The vanilla link needs to be updated as well -- it goes to uploads8.

Renata

Thanks Renata. Fixed.

Team Offa have now switched to playing Conquests.

Thanks -- next problem -- I see goats, but according to the above it should be sheep.

Renata

:D

I didn't have a copy of the original test saves and so I generated new ones. All the test saves now show goats.

I'll edit the first post.

Coolness, thanks. :)

Yep the save works and I see goats and incense, when moving I see more goats and olives etc. So it's all good... *Rubbing her hands together waiting with anticpation for her first SGOTM*

In the hope of circumventing any confusion between the C3C version and "legacy" version...

The C3C version is exactly the same as the normal version of conquests with two changes.

1. The C3C resources have been replaced with GOTM resources. In your team threads there is a link in the first post to the GOTM reference thread. You can find everything you need to know about these resources there. You will NOT find Oases or tobacco or sugar Cane on this map.

2. You will not get settlers from huts. Instead you will get workers.

All the other changes listed are for vanilla and PTW only, and are designed to make those two versions of the software as fair as possible within a competition. The Conquests game is a separate competition, with a different award to play for. The two different games are not comparable, and not do I have any clue as to how I could possible make them comparable in the future. I use the same maps for both because it's easier to manage and it might offer some entertainment later in the game....

Saw the goats ... seems ok.

Wow - just for fun, I played that map a bit... how on EARTH does anyone play on SID level?

By 1600 BC, I had 3 cities, and America had about 14, and the entire land mass was pretty much taken.

Just curious.. is the goal of this game to have the fastest 100k victory (like the 100k award in GOTM) or to have the highest jason score?
Due to only poprushing available, a fast victory will mean more unhappiness from rushing, plus lower pop.. which will lead to a lower jason score than if you move a bit slower and milk score while reaching 100k

It's a race. Pure and Simple. The fewest number of turns to get the 100K victory.

Score is only used graphically to "indicate" how well other teams are doing.

It's a race. Pure and Simple. The fewest number of turns to get the 100K victory.

Score is only used graphically to "indicate" how well other teams are doing.
Good.. that was what I hoped for :D

Note that the first post doesn't include the all-in-one installer that is now available for Windows as well as Mac. See the links in my signature for both, or find them via the GOTM Mod Installers link on the GOTM Site (http://gotm.civfanatics.net) main menu.

Yes. Just one job too many this weekend. I'll add it to the first post.

What is the barb setting?

Renata

Aah... I'm glad you asked me that. It's set to raging and in crackers words "with regionally intense barbarian activity" :)

The Saves are now available. I will be offline for 8 hours.

Saves available? where, pray tell ...

Post 1 of your game thread has a series of links. One of them is the "download save" link. Hit that, and you will see a table of all the teams and their saves. Pick your own. :)

Possible Bug involving movement cost for rivers

I have been informed that in the vanilla version of the game that workers can cross rivers without incurring the normal movement penalty. I have asked for a save from the team concerned (though I suppose I should just download it from the server).

If anyone notices this in PTW or C3C (or indeed in another vanilla game) then I would be grateful if someone could supply me with a save and a picture to show me where it happens.

As yet I have been unable to replicate it, and am unsure whether there is a problem with the bic or the map. Since the bic is identical to SGOTM5 I suspect the latter.

Just for information: It is not necessary to PM me about bugs to save my blushes. I prefer that issues like that are dealt with in the open. The only exception to this is if a method of cheating is discovered (as happened recently), in which case I wouldn't want it advertised. :)

Are SGLs enabled in the C3C games?

:mischief:

Melifluous

Meli, SGL's are turned off for all GOTM games. It is staff policy.

The "worker crossing rivers" thing has not been replicated. I have checked a save of each software version and the correct mumber of movement points are deducted for crossing rivers on road and otherwise.

Because the map is handbuilt it is possible that there is a location where a river "looks" joined up but actually isn't. It's just a theory ;) Lets just call it a ford and leave it at that. :)

Is there anywhere a lurker could download a fresh 4000BC save to try out some of the techniques used by the teams?

I set it manually to 100K - Well actually I changed the standard map size to 100X130 and changed the OCN and tech cost to mid-way between standard and large.
The tech cost in our (offa) game seems to be like on a huge emperor map. Does this then also apply to the OCN?

Klarius: The only difference between your game and every other game is that the save was generated a day later. There is a bug in C3C that imports the last played games settings into a game generated from a scenario irrespective of what the scenario settings are. To the best of my knowledge I didn't open C3C in the intervening time, but confess that I didn't check before generating your save. However I am confident that your game is the same as everyone elses.
For peace of mind, I'll ask your team not to play any further until I have checked for sure. I will get back to you

Klarius: OCN is 20 and tech Rate is 280 for everyone. For C3C OCN for a standard map is 20 anyway, and remains unchanged. Tech rate is 240 for 100X100 and 320 for 130X130.

I do have a concern though, which is that the software I use to check it is reporting SGLs are on and Civ specific abilities are off for C3C (Can't be true BTW ;) ), so I think I need to find a different method for looking at saves. I might have to start using a Hex editor, which I hate.

If you really think there is a problem with your save then PM me and we'll discuss it privately since to do so here would involve spoiler info. :)

I thought (as well as probably other participants) that the saves for various teams should be indentical. Why would you need to "generate a new save" specifically for the team Offa? Is it not possible to rename the existing save for some other team and make it the starting save for the team? Please clarify the issue because it then comes to the question of "Are all saves identical for all teams for a given software version?"

the saves for various teams should be indentical
Nope! How do you think the magic happens that ensures that saves are correctly assigned to their teams? Surely you don't think I depend on you to type your own name correctly?

Nope! How do you think the magic happens that ensures that saves are correctly assigned to their teams? Surely you don't think I depend on you to type your own name correctly?


:confused:

Then how does it happen? And how then anyone can be sure that the saves are identical and there are no differences between them?

I understand you have to insert some kind of the tag in the save for each team but why it does require different start-up of the game. I thought you insert these kinds of things with the hex editor or multitool.

Nope! How do you think the magic happens that ensures that saves are correctly assigned to their teams? Surely you don't think I depend on you to type your own name correctly?

you know us well. :mischief: :lol:

@akots. Trust M-B.

Sure, the tag is inserted by editing. How else? And that's all M-B intends to change in each team's file. But if there's an editor bug as described by M-B that changes the edited file in ways he doesn't intend there could be a problem.

I had to generate a new save for Offa because originally that team were playing PTW, but decided to change to C3C after I had already loaded a PTW save for them on the server. Consequently their save was generated a day later than all the other C3C saves on the server.

All saves for a particular version of the software are identical and generated from the same biq. Alanh had explained this process as far as is necessary.

Multitool is a banned tool, the use of which is easily detected by the submission software.

Is there anywhere a lurker could download a fresh 4000BC save to try out some of the techniques used by the teams?

?

I suppose my post got lost in the tech cost hubub...

If you go to the submission page, and select to display the current results as a list starting at 4000BC (in otherwords.. uncheck the display as graph option), all the numbers are links to the individual saves.. including the starting ones

?

I suppose my post got lost in the tech cost hubub...

I haven't tried this, but if you go to the submission list (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php) and uncheck the box next to "Display submission list as a graph" you will get a table of the teams scores and all of the submitted saves as well as the starting saves. I don't think there is any restrictions on who can load them (although the web logs can be checked to make sure that a non-lurker isn't uploading a game that they shouldn't.)

@Nicklas: Sorry I missed your post. You have the answer from Gyathaar and MOTH, and yes, anyone can download any save in the list.

[EDIT] That doesn't apply to members of the competing teams, of course. They must only download their own team saves.

If you go to the submission page, and select to display the current results as a list starting at 4000BC (in otherwords.. uncheck the display as graph option), all the numbers are links to the individual saves.. including the starting ones

Thanks a lot, worked fine. :)

It seems that importing the GOTM resources into C3C has also imported terrain values too. This means that the movement cost for coast is 3 and the movement cost for sea is two, and should be one.

I'll ask Alan to correct the saves on the server. Those with turnsets in progress can get your saves fixed when you next upload, but you will need to let me know. I'll post again to let you all know when it's done.

We have boats in the staff test game - and none of us noticed :(

Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

It seems that importing the GOTM resources into C3C has also imported terrain values too. This means that the movement cost for coast is 3 and the movement cost for sea is two, and should be one.

I'll ask Alan to correct the saves on the server. Those with turnsets in progress can get your saves fixed when you next upload, but you will need to let me know. I'll post again to let you all know when it's done.

We have boats in the staff test game - and none of us noticed :(

Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

hold on. isn't that the correct values with differential movement enabled?

I don't think differential movement is enabled in C3C, though, which would mean that an unmodded galley would only be able to move one tile on coast -- not exactly the intended result.

At least I assume that's the issue.

Renata

C3C doesn't have differential naval movenent, so the boats don't have a compensating doubled movement value. A galley with the standard movement=3, will only move 1 on coast, 2 on sea and 3 on ocean. A differential naval movement galley is given movement=6, so it can move 2, 3 and 6 tiles respectively.

[EDIT] Renata overtook ;)

The save edit for movement on water has been made and verified on one teams save. The other edits will be made later today, and I will post when this has been done.

Thanks to klarius for bringing this to my attention early enough for it to no become a major problem :thumbsup:

Morning, M-B.

As this little anomaly doesn't involve spoiler info, for the resource is visible from the start, I thought I'd post here rather than a PM.

Team Bede (C3C) has just learned Maths and the production queue shows the Statue of Zeus and not an elephant in sight :confused:

Does this mean the SoZ will build curraghs? :D

No - The prerequisite is silks because the GOTM resource order is different in the biq to native C3C.

Oops, should have read the 'pedia. Sorry to bother you on that one.

I will change it for future games Bede, but the "proper" way to do it is to make the resource order the same for all three versions of the software, and to make sure that all the resources work correctly in each situation. Making the change is trivial, but testing it takes longer than I have atm. It will just be a relief to me when all the bugs and issues are resolved and I con concentrate on map making rather than modding (which I am just not good enough at unfortunately).

While you are looking at the modding, perhaps you could change naval movement to be the same in both versions as well? It would seem that differential movement in in PTW and 1.29 for flavor. I know that SGOTM4 would have played differently without it, so I would think if you have all 3 versions the same it should simplify playtesting.

M-B tells me the Team Offa test sample I fixed yesteday seems to be OK, so I'm about to download the rest of the C3C files from the server and edit their coast and sea movement costs in the same way. Please do NOT download and play the current saves until I have reported back to say I have changed them. This only applies to C3C players.

When I've finished I'll upload them again and report back here to let you know that you can take them and continue your games. That will be take a little while as my ISP "upgraded" me from 512K ADSL to 33K modem access yesterday :gripe: I hope to report back before the end of today, GMT.

When the files are restored to the server they will be ZIP files, as I have to expand the saves to edit them, and can only recompress them using ZIP format. This should have little effect on you, and once you have loaded and played them your future saves will be normal .SAV files again.

@Barbslinger and Offa: Did M-B give you a fixed file? I created them, but he's off line, so I can't ask him if he passed them on. If you have them you can continue to play using them. If not then please wait for me to report.

I've broken the links to the latest C3C saves on the database, but obviously if you have already downloaded them you need to wait and download the new ones.

@Alan
No we have no fixed file in Team Offa.

@Moth
C3C and PtW/Vanilla are so different already that they are not comparable. We have different civ traits and a lot of other differences.
A small change like differential naval movement will not fix this.

@Klarius: OK, I'll upload yours (and Barbslinger's) as soon as possible.

@MOTH: Klarius is correct. Just look at the graphs on the results page and you'll see that the C3C games are diverging already. Of course you may argue that they are being played better, but I think some of it may be due to the changes in C3C. We run two GOTM games each month instead of one exactly because of this scale of difference.

I have uploaded the edited files. You should now be able to sail your C3C ships further and faster.

Please let me know if you have any (technical) problems with these files.

Well, I tried to send mad-bax a PM about some more observations, for him to publish what he thinks necessary. But his pm box is full :( , so I post it here:

@mad-bax:
I calculated a little bit with our corruption rates. I'm pretty sure now that we have a huge OCN.
So I assume you had a huge game before creating the save and did your changes in the biq only for standard size.
Bug report thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98041)
Another point is the barb setting. You posted it should be raging. I think we should have seen more barbs, if this is true. So you probably also had a lower barb setting.
Any other surprises ;) ?
SGL, respawn ?

@Alan

Looks like our latest turnset (Barbslinger) was played and submitted with the older unedited files just before you made the announcement... Hope this hasn't screwed up the system, i'll tell my team to stop until we get the all clear from you...

@chunkeymonkey: I did edit and upload a 2150 BC file for Barbslinger, but your 1750 BC save arrived at about the same time, so I've edited that one as well, and that's the file you can download from your link on the status page. Go ahead and let me know how it goes.

@AlanH: Thanks for putting your effort to this. The CDZ team has a problem. Anarres cannot upload the save. And he has apparently played the unedited version of the game since the download link was broken and he got the save "traditional way" from the preceding player col. We're in the process of figuring this out. I will try to upload the file now. Is it possible to correct it then and post something here so that the next player in roster knows when the game can be continued. Thanks again and sorry for all this trouble.

Edited: The save has been uploaded. It is an unpatched version apparently. Please let us know when we can continue with the game.

Sorry Akots. Due to my connection problems I've ony just seen your post. I'll get on it now.

@Akots: I've fixed CDZ's 1500 BC file. It's ready for you to play.

Thanks a lot, moving right along with the game.

BTW a change of annares->anarres in the SGOTM database would probably fix anarres' upload problems.

I really like the graph of team scores on the results page. Would it be possible to also graph culture and show us when the game is over? Better to start making it now if you do. Klarius had a good point about the different versions. Is it possible to show this on the graph?

Both changes are in my to do list.

@mad-bax:
I calculated a little bit with our corruption rates. I'm pretty sure now that we have a huge OCN.
So I assume you had a huge game before creating the save and did your changes in the biq only for standard size.
Bug report thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98041)
Another point is the barb setting. You posted it should be raging. I think we should have seen more barbs, if this is true. So you probably also had a lower barb setting.
Any other surprises ;) ?
SGL, respawn ?

You need to play the game klarius. It is difficult for me to respond without offering spoiler information. Before the game you complained that the C3C version of the game was trivial in comparison with the vanilla/PTW version, due to the agricultural trait. This made me smile.

ainwood provided me with a procedure for setting up C3C games so that I would get the correct settings in the game. The settings are the same for all the C3C games, but yes they are different in some respects to vanilla/PTW. This is deliberate. Giving an agricultural civ a 4 settler factory start needed to be compensated for.

I can't respond to the Barbarian question adequately now. If you still think that this is a problem then we can discuss it in the first spoiler. Inspection of various saves have not quickened my pulse any, wheras the water movement cost bug certainly did!

SGL's are off. Definitely.
Respawn is off. Definitely.

To my knowledge there are 3 bugs uncovered so far.
The water movement bug, which Alan has kindly fixed for me.
The ToZ bug which I knew about, but decided to leave, for various reasons, but mainly because I didn't have time to fix it "the right way". Doing it the "quick" way would have meant a future game played with standard resources would have made something else (Uranium IIRC) the pre-requisite for ToZ and it would have been easy to forget, particularly if someone else takes over from me.
The third bug is a river in the start position that can be crossed north to south without losing all 3 movement points, but south to north you do. This bug is present in all three software versions and seems to be an editor glitch.

I know that because there were a couple of bugs in the last game, and a couple more in this that it is easy to believe that any non-standard behaviour in the game is just down to my incompetence. I don't blame you. All I can say is that my intention is to get to a single mod that never changes, and that everyone can live with. IMHO I think that the changes that I have made were necessary in order that SG's played as a competition, particularly with variants are as fair as possible. I hope that any remaining issues are washed out in this game, and that in future the games will be devoid of problems like this. At that point I can step aside as facilitator without passing a poisoned chalice to my successor.

The ToZ bug which I knew about, but decided to leave, for various reasons, but mainly because I didn't have time to fix it "the right way".

I just scanned this thread and didn't find a note about the ToZ bug. Could you please post a quick explanation so that we know what to expect.

EDIT: DOH, just re-read and found it. Thats what I get for going through a day on 5 hrs sleep. Sorry.

Thanks

In fact thanks for everything. I am enjoying this game quite a lot (Bugs and all). Since I don't have a lot of C3C experience, I had never played with Agricultural. It is enlightening.

I have reluctantly decided to release an accurate change list for C3C, and have amended post 1 in this thread. Please don't hesitate to post any questions you have that arise from this.

EDIT: Added Open Issues list. Any suggestions for addition or resolution of current issues are welcomed of course.

I have reluctantly decided to release an accurate change list for C3C, and have amended post 1 in this thread. ...

Better later than never. Many thanks for making the things clear. But it could have been better to know this before the game begins may be for the future? And why you were reluctant to release the changes?

It might be a bit different strategy for the starting moves and research path knowing the AIs begin with 2 settlers and have lots of goodie huts in C3C. It is essentially played like Demi-God in the beginning. Also nice to know that upgrade costs are less than they are in C3C normally.

This might be a bit spoilerish. But I will explain a little. The pattern of variants is intended to alternate between warmongering and building games, to give all kinds of players the kind of games they feel comfortable in. It was my expectation that for 100k that most teams would conquer to the domination limit and cruise to 100K, essentially a warmonger game. To prevent this I decided to make the early game very difficult from an expansion point of view. I experimented with straight deity for 1.29f but found that the early middle ages were too difficult, and I tried Emperor for C3C and found the game essentially trivial because of the Agricultural trait. My compromise was therefore to give DG start units to C3C and a higher early tech rate. Upgrade costs were reduced, not to make gaining the UU cheaper but to make the game playable in industrial ages. When you get there you will see why, and you may discover it earlier. Other considerations were made to reducing game breaking luck events.
There are a number of other things that I did, but mainly map related that will affect the game later on, so I have one hand tied behind my back in many respects.

The reason I did not post an accurate change list was for several reasons. Firstly I didn't want people to decide on the software version they would play based o perceived difficulty level. Secondly, I wanted the early AI expansion and tech rate to be a frightening surprise, and not expected as a result of the changes. Other reasons too which are proably best summarised as me being too lazy. Had the game been bug free, then I am sure it would have been the right thing to do. But because of my mistake with naval movement, every change then was perceived as a bug. I guess many people would have just observed a stony silence and waited for the end of the game to explain it all. But that is not my style. I want these games to be inclusive and built on what the players want, and I therefore want all the game parameters widely discussed, along with my errors and bugs so that I can get to a place where everyone is comfortable. That includes me BTW, I actually find it difficult to read the early posts in a new game due to dread of someone finding a game breaking bug. To fix that, my intention is to work towards a single fixed mod that people can live with and that is fair in extreme variant SG competition, so that I can concentrate purely on map making and administration.

@m-b,

Apologise for a query to which I think I know the answer but Team Bede needs a clarification:

Re Rule 1: Only allowed governments are despotism and Communism.

I read that to allow the acquisition of the knowledge for trade bait but that we may not revolt into any other government.

Am I correct in my reading?

Thanks.

Please don't take this to be me rushing you, but just out of curiosity....

Is there an ETA for the culture graph mentioned in the first post? Only culture is of interest during this game.
6. Progress graphs on Download page not relevent for all variants. Addition of graphs for Culture, surplus food, shield production,net income,city count,total unit count (perhaps)) to be added.

I'm still looking for my round tuit ;) I swear I had here last week.

I'm hoping to get to it this weekend, but please don't send the mob round here to break my legs if I don't make it.

IMHO, this might be not so great idea to have the cultural graph for the submitted saves right now. You know that there are different strategies to be used for 100K and looking at the graph may be a sort of a spoiler for the other teams. It can be slightly more fair if it is shown after the game has progressed a little bit further. But by no means I'm against it. This would be a great addition to the already almost perfect system.

I agree with akots, in fact I'm not sure why there's even scores posted until the game is over.

@Bede, if you want to get technical, the rules do say governments, not government techs. And to get really technical, anarchy was not allowed as a government, but is needed to change to communism, so I guess that is implied.

I think the scores add a little excitement but don't tell the whole story. Still a good indicator. We will know for sure when it is over.

We can't win. There was a mighty uproar when we suppressed the scores during SGOTM 3. Make up your minds, folks, and we'll fit in with whatever you prefer :confused:

We can't win. There was a mighty uproar when we suppressed the scores during SGOTM 3. Make up your minds, folks, and we'll fit in with whatever you prefer :confused:

Oh, come on, just make an executive decision and let us know. ;)

We can't win. There was a mighty uproar when we suppressed the scores during SGOTM 3. Make up your minds, folks, and we'll fit in with whatever you prefer :confused:
I think, now that we all are on the same variant, we could put up all statistics.
You may conclude what is the strategy of the others, but that doesn't help you to determine what's the best in the end.

The achievable finish date in this variant will be determined long before the end.
Then it's just a question of exact play and micromanaging a large number of cities :cry: . I'm sure everybody will anyways give the best effort in this phase and don't see that one can do anything, even when knowing a target date.

@m-b,

Apologise for a query to which I think I know the answer but Team Bede needs a clarification:

Re Rule 1: Only allowed governments are despotism and Communism.

I read that to allow the acquisition of the knowledge for trade bait but that we may not revolt into any other government.

Am I correct in my reading?

Thanks.

Yes that;s correct Bede. The only allowed governments are despotism and communism. You can learn any techs you like.

Oh, come on, just make an executive decision and let us know. ;)We did! We're going to do it! Now we get complaints!

We did! We're going to do it! Now we get complaints!
I just want to say thank you to M-B & Alan. You guys are doing this in your free time and I for one appreciate it. If there is a graph or no graph, you guys have done a great job. I'm happy with whatever you guys decide. People will complain no matter what you do. Best thing to do is ignore the complaints and just do your best and what you think would make it more fun.

We did! We're going to do it! Now we get complaints!
:thumbsup:
Everyone has an opinion. Unfortunately, most of the time everyone has a different opinion. Since that is true, only mine should count. :joke:

Seriously though. The amount of work put in is completely appreciated. I personally like the score graph, but anyone making strategic decisions based on the graph is missing the point.

The game is an attempt by a team to do the best job they can. You can make inferences about other teams from their scores, but since this is a race to the finish rather than a milk run, this is only of limited use.

Once more with feeling. THANK YOU MB, THANK YOU ALANH, THANK YOU TO ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS WORKED TO MAKE SGOTM SO MUCH FUN, BUT WHO HASN'T GOTTEN CREDIT FOR IT.

Well, like it or not, you've got it.

I've now added a culture graph option in a pop-up menu above the graph, and split the team summary into Conquests and Classic groups. The culture option is available for all games currently, though it gives no information for previous games. You can enable or disable the graph displays for all teams in a group so that you can compare them any way you want.

As ever, please let me know if you spot any problems, or if there are extra facilities you would like.

Well, like it or not, you've got it.

I've now added a culture graph option in a pop-up menu above the graph, and split the team summary into Conquests and Classic groups.Great. Thank you. :goodjob:

In my last turn set I tried to Irrigate the plains tile located between the two adjacent/isolated hill tiles north of the starting location and rivers. The tile SE was irrigated but I was not allowed to irrigate. Is there a "fold" in the map data running North/South from the start location? Someone also mentioned that the plains tile NE of the start is not on the river even though the corner touches.

Pied Piper. Yes there does seem to be a problem with the map in that area. I'm not sure why. Unfortunately there is not much I can do about it now. :(

I have begun work on a reference thread for the SGOTM event. It is very much work in progress and does not apply to SGOTM6.

At the bottom of the thread I have posted the scenario files I intend to use for SGOTM 7 along with a change history from SGOTM6 to 7. I will amend this with a full change history soon.

The scenario files do not include a map, and have not been play tested yet.
The vanilla version is being play tested by a member of staff at the moment. The other two versions are not at the moment - since it is hardly worthwhile until we know if the map is suitable.

If anyone would like to download and play with these scenario files, then please feel free. Any feedback you may have would be greatly appreciated.

The files are located >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112722)

Vanilla teams (Ivan, tao, Xteam) may have had trouble uploading files for the last 24 hours due to a bug I introduced when automating QSC scoring. It's now fixed. My apologies for any inconvenience this caused.

The Results and Congratulations thread for SGOTM5 game has now been posted >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112731)

The Results/downloads page for this game has already been updated.

I will be away from the forum until March 7th and Alanh will be monitoring the maintenance thread. He cannot access the team threads and it is therefore important that any issues arising in my absence are raised in this thread.

Two things:
1. Can the SGOTM Reference thread be stickied please?

2. The All check boxes on the submission list no longer appear to function. I was trying to remove all the C3C teams to see how our team was stacking up and it didn't work like it did a few days ago.

M-B specifically said before he left on vacation that he didn't want the reference thread stuck as it's a work in progress. I haven't looked at it at all, so I don't know its state of completion. Is it important to stick it?

I've fixed the All buttons - I left some debug code in there when I was sorting out the SGOTM 5 results display. Sorry! Thanks for letting me know.

Not important to stick it. It just drops off the first screen pretty fast and people migth miss it. THis is mainly if they wanted to playtest the ruleset I suppose.

For the statistics junkies among our readers I have now run all the SGOTM 1000 BC saves we have through the QSC analyzer and published the results here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/results/sgotm_qsc_results.php). This link is also available on the SGOTM Progress and Results page. If your team is not included in the listing for a game it's because we don't have a 1000 BC save.

Wow, you've been busy Alan...thanks. I'm not sure that the QSC has any pertainence on the 100k goal but it's still great to see how other team did on their first 80 turns. Thanks again

It is also great for the past games as well!

Well, like it or not, you've got it.

Greetings AlanH from the subtropical warmth of the antipodes, and thanks for the excellent upgrade to the results screen. Your efforts are appreciated and your skills legendary even here in the farthest flung portions of the empire. Tally ho and carry on the fine job old chap eh what.

Allan, 1) I prpbably have 1000BC file from current game, how (where) I can upload it?
2) I'd like to delite some old files from SGTOM2 say. How I can do it?
Ivan

1) I prpbably have 1000BC file from current game, how (where) I can upload it?
Just upload it, PM me to tell me it's there, and I'll run the QSC analysis on it
2) I'd like to delite some old files from SGTOM2 say. How I can do it?
Ivan
You can't. Why would you want to?

@Peanut: G'day, Bruce!

The total size of my attachments is reaching the maximum limit, I'll soon be unable to continue uploading files.
EDIT: I've uploaded the 1000BC save file.

I've added the QSC stats from your 1000 BC file.

Ahah! You mean attachments to your own mails. The SGOTM 2 files on the submissions server are not included in your forum attachments limit and they are not even on the same server, so you'll have no problems continuing to upload files for SGOTM. If you want to clear out your forum attachments you need to click on User CP near the top of the screen and click "Attachments" at the bottom of the left hand menu on your User Control Panel page. That shows you a list of your forum attachments, and you can select them and delete the selected ones.

Hope this helps :)

Will we have a spoiler thread? Maybe once mad-bax returns on the 7th?

What would be a good breakpoint for this spoiler?

Do we have to know communism? Or is Middle Ages and all contacts plus complete worldmap sufficient?

Dear AlanH and Mad-Bax,
Our roster has almost collapsed, our fifth did not show up at all, Yamamoto has only played one set of turns and skipped two times in a row, and will probably skip again. AdrianE has left for vacation for three weeks. Certainly, we can continue with conehead234 as a pair, but I think it would be better to let KingAlexander join our team. Since we know the complete WM already, and I believe that the gameflow is very different in different teams, I hope that the information he gained during lurking will not have any significant impact. However, if anybody is against this, let us know ASAP, meanwhile we will continue with conehead.
Regards, Ivan.

@Ivan: I'm sorry to hear your team has fallen apart. MB is on vacation until next week. I have received a PM from King Alexander, and replied that I feel it will be OK for him to join your team. As he has played the C3C version through to the modern era as a single player game, I have asked him to keep his information about resource locations to himself and not to share them with the team. I have also asked him to avoid using that information during his own turn sets.

So King Alexander is now added to your roster on the database and will be able to submit saves for your team.

Will we have a spoiler thread? Maybe once mad-bax returns on the 7th?

What would be a good breakpoint for this spoiler?

Do we have to know communism? Or is Middle Ages and all contacts plus complete worldmap sufficient?
I'll let M-B open the spoiler, but I thing MA+full map+all contacts ought to be enough. Communism is a bit late, really.

@ Alan -- I think there may have been one or more additional people who wanted to join this game but came too late. If Ivan wants a fourth player available while AdrianE is still gone, maybe one of them can be asked if they still want to join? I can't remember who it was, but the names should still be back in the threads somewhere.

Renata

@ Alan -- I think there may have been one or more additional people who wanted to join this game but came too late. If Ivan wants a fourth player available while AdrianE is still gone, maybe one of them can be asked if they still want to join? I can't remember who it was, but the names should still be back in the threads somewhere.

Renata
No, thanks.
Acctually I hope that Yamomoto will return and AdreanE will keep track of our game. If King Alex's placement is OK, we add him to our team. (Actually we have discussed it and all agree).

All right, sounds good!

Renata

I just wanted to confirm that this action is still illegal for SGOTM6:

From the GOTM Rules on illegal exploits:
Pop-rushing
In despotism and communism it is possible to use cities purely for unit rush
building. Workers can be added to such a city and then the city can then
use them to rush build units. This is disallowed, so do not create these kind
of cities. Pop rushing one or two regular citizens to finish a building or to
build a unit is within the rules and the spirit of the game. What is against
the rules is joining workers to cities for the purpose of pop rushing.

My understanding is that it is fine to pop-rush culture buildings, but we cannot add workers to the cities make this happen. Is this the same understanding that everyone else has?

That is my understanding of the rule too. A city growing on it's own and then pop-rushing a building or unit is okay.

What I think that rule is prohibiting is to join workers and/or slaves to a city and then pop-rushing stuff. So you can't use slaves you gain from your conquests to add culture to your cities.

Yeah, the exploitive version would be something like founding a town, joining three workers, rushing a temple, joining seven or eight more workers, rushing a library, etcetera. Five cultural buildings in ten turns given a sufficient supply of slaves. Definitely not allowed.

There's a teeny-tiny bit of fudge factor here, because worker-joins are a valid part of the game. I don't think that rushing part of a university should be disallowed in a town just because 40 turns previously a couple of excess workers had been added for lack of anything better to do with them. That's about as far as I'd want to push it, though -- otherwise the whole point of the variant is destroyed.

Renata

Question (probably @mad-bax): does the Classic variant include the Internet Wonder giving free research labs in all towns? Required tech miniaturization? Or not?

Yes, it does. I used this to get my fastest 100K win GOTM37 with the Iroq's and over 100 cities. That extra 200+cpt push really helps, but its tought to stay under the domination limit when every new city expands in a few turns....

Dear AlanH and Mad-Bax,
AdrianE has left for vacation for three weeks.

I'm not on vacation. I just got sent to Taiwan on business for three + weeks. There is a HUGE difference. :cry:

I wouldn't have signed up for this game if I had known I'd be civ-less for three weeks.

Adrian

Hi I'm back (for better or worse :p )

tao: The internet is implemented in exactly the same way for 1.29f as it is in standard PTW, however you may find that it is architecturally similar to Smiths ;)

So.. It costs the same, is available with the same tech and gives a free research lab in every city (not continent restricted).

Ivan: KA can join your team. I only have one reservation, but it has been dealt with by Alan in a PM.

As regards joining workers. Joining workers with the specific intention of increasing population to the point where it enables the whipping of a specific improvement is an exploit and not allowed. Joining workers for other reasons is OK though (e.g. increasing a towns pop to size 7 to get the additional defence bonus). Setting a hard and fast rule would only get me into trouble again so I'll leave it like this.

Seems to have been pretty quiet in my absence. Must be a lesson in there somewhere... just can't work it out.

Seems to have been pretty quiet in my absence. Must be a lesson in there somewhere... just can't work it out.

Meli's Second Law of tech support - If people cant get hold of you they cant ask you dumb questions!

Melifluous

Maybe no one wants to be the squeaky wheel or the tallest nail.

The first spoiler for this game has been posted >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=114291)

The Requirement is the knowledge of Gunpowder and all contacts.

The Game Over Spoiler thread for this game has been posted >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=116294)

No peeking until you've won or lost. :)

Just curious, how many teams have finished so far?

I think that several teams will finish this week. If I'm right, then about half the teams will be done with this game then. I don't want to give exact numbers, because I don't want people to start theorising about who finished when and what they have to do to beat their date.

I think that several teams will finish this week. If I'm right, then about half the teams will be done with this game then. I don't want to give exact numbers, because I don't want people to start theorising about who finished when and what they have to do to beat their date.

That theorizing is already going on in some threads. ;)

Nah, couldn't be. ;)

Renata

That theorizing is already going on in some threads. ;)'Threads' - plural? How would you know? :mischief:

Ah ha you're busted MOTH!!! j/k

I think he was implying that we were already theorizing in our thread. We haven't been peeking.

I was just kidding. We've been doing the same in our thread by looking at the culcha graph. It's pretty obvious that some teams are very near 100K. Although we don't know if they have a rival civ that is > 50k...

Hey... what gives?

Are MGLs turned off for this game or something? If not, I am personally writing a very stern letter to the gods of RNG. I have had over 60 elite wins, just in my turnsets, and I imagine the others in my team have had more or less the same. And no leaders... :(

Obviously if something in our game is screwed, then it doesn't really matter now as we're so close to victory, but I just find it a bit weird...

Regards,
chunky (Barbslinger)

EDIT: OK, perhaps 60 elite wins is exaggerating a little... but you get the idea :mischief:

MGL's are definitely on in your game and all others. Sorry you have had bad luck, but it really is bad luck only.

Oh ok cheers. I figured it was just bad luck, just wanted to be sure. :sad:

it doesn't really matter now as we're so close to victory, but I just find it a bit weird...
...
OK, perhaps 60 elite wins is exaggerating a little... but you get the idea :mischief:
...
(Barbslinger)

According to the culcha chart, "close to victory" is also exaggerating a little. Or are you guys holding out on us?

well that would be telling wouldn't it ;)

what I mean is that having a few leaders now wouldn't really be as useful as it would have been 100 turns ago

Is there a reason that the results page isn't updating whether a team won or not. The reason I'm asking is that Whomp's signature indicates that his team won SGOTM6 by 100k. No dates were given. I haven't looked at any other team's threads but I'm assuming that Team Offa has completed their game since Northern pike is listed as the last poster on the Final spoiler thread.

I really just wanted to know how the other teams are doing relatively. Based on the culture graph, it looks like Team Bede (mine) are the only team still playing. There is a column for victory and I was wondering if this would be considered spoiler info.

Yes, we hold back the end dates to try to avoid the spoiler effect.

PS I can categorically state that you are not the only team still playing, because Xteam haven't finished yet either.

And neither have CDZ :)

Melifluous

Just to fuel speculation, fewer than 50% of the teams have posted final saves so far :p

Just to fuel speculation, fewer than 50% of the teams have posted final saves so far :p

The suspense is killing me.... :crazyeye:

No, it really is! :D





;)

I propose that I post the sign-up thread for SGOTM7 in 1 weeks time - 6th May. The game proper I suggest will begin on 16th May.

Just to recap.

The game will be an AWD (Always War Deity) with the required victory condition set to Domination. You will be playing the Ottomans on a small map. No other information will be released, except for the start location.

FWIW: IMHO the game will play no more difficult than AWE in any version of the software.

Is the timing OK with everyone - or do you need a rest? :)

Sounds good to me :D

FWIW: IMHO the game will play no more difficult than AWE in any version of the software.Oh, that's all right then! :rolleyes:

Is the timing OK with everyone - or do you need a rest? :) Should be OK. I just need a few days to get the checker installed to make sure all uploaded saves have the teams at war with all contacts at upload time. :coffee:

Oh, that's all right then! :rolleyes:Relax, hopefully he means AWE with a five-cow, iron and horses, fairly isolated, with a perfect AW civ game...

That better be what he meant...

With good start and good civ AWE can be won as OCC on a standard map. ;)

With good start and good civ AWE can be won as OCC on a standard map. ;)

So AWD should be a breeze as the Ottomans, then...? ;) I'm still considering whether to sign up or not. It's not like I've played much of either (AW or D).

With good start and good civ AWE can be won as OCC on a standard map. ;)With a good start AWS can be won as OCC on a standard map. ;)

With a good start AWS can be won as OCC on a standard map. ;)

That might be possible but has not yet been done even with a very good start. Mark's game had been on a small map. That is the only AWS OCC I'm aware of. Actually, it has been the only Sid OCC.

Is the timing OK with everyone - or do you need a rest? :)

Works for me.

Renata

That might be possible but has not yet been done even with a very good start. Mark's game had been on a small map. That is the only AWS OCC I'm aware of. Actually, it has been the only Sid OCC.With a similar map, I think it still would have been possible, since he reported the game to be so easy.

Hmm, i am actually in doubt again. (after already declaring my retirement) AWD really interests me...

I am however not enough interested in the game anymore to participate in succession games and guarantee my full effords for the team.

Ah well, i shall see...

With a similar map, I think it still would have been possible, since he reported the game to be so easy.

Well, to me it does not seem to be very easy.

When SirPleb describes his HOF Sid game, it also seems to be easy when you read it. Yet, it is not so easy when one tries to repeat it. :lol:

Is the timing OK with everyone - or do you need a rest? :)
We've had a rest already, thanks ;)

When SirPleb describes his HOF Sid game, it also seems to be easy when you read it. Yet, it is not so easy when one tries to repeat it. :lol:

That's what I love about some of his QSC timelines. I replayed 1 of them step by step and was amazed. I should probably do that again with some of his more recent games.

Well, to me it does not seem to be very easy.

When SirPleb describes his HOF Sid game, it also seems to be easy when you read it. Yet, it is not so easy when one tries to repeat it. :lol:Oh well. :lol:

"Easy".

The result for SGOTM6 will be declared on Friday 13th May. At this point the results, congratulations and commiserations thread will be posted. The result will be based on the team standings on this date. If you don't finish the game by this date you can continue to play of course, but it will not affect the results. All teams final results will be made public, and the censor removed from the SGOTM results page on this date.

SGOTM7 - Ottomans will begin on Monday 16th May.

Since I have nothing better to do :rolleyes: I decided to post the sign-up thread for SGOTM7 - Always War - Ottomans >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=118132)

This is a little early, but means I get a little less earache from my wife. :)

Can we read other teams' threads once we've finished? I'm bored and want something to read.

Yes you can of course. :) ... or you could read some AW threads :mischief: ...since you are bored.

Ha! Good idea, thanks! :)

The result for SGOTM6 will be declared on Friday 13th May. At this point the results, congratulations and commiserations thread will be posted. The result will be based on the team standings on this date. If you don't finish the game by this date you can continue to play of course, but it will not affect the results. All teams final results will be made public, and the censor removed from the SGOTM results page on this date.

I obviously need to follow this thread on a more regular basis, as I just noticed this due date from the posting on May 4th. We'll see what we can do.

Due to various reasons team RowandLive will be unable to finish until this evening. It would be a bit churlish to ignore their game for the sake of a few hours and therefore I will post the results when I get out of bed in the morning. Because I have 4 year old twins that will be at around half past dark.

Since I'm stupid and people are starting to use big words. I looked it up. In case others were wondering.......
churl·ish
adj.
Of, like, or befitting a churl; boorish or vulgar.
Having a bad disposition; surly: “as valiant as the lion, churlish as the bear” (Shakespeare).
Difficult to work with, such as soil; intractable.

Thank you , M-B. It is appreciated.

The Congratulations thread for this game has been posted >>HERE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=118866)

My thanks go to everyone who participated.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Alanh. He is the real driver for this event and I give him nothing but grief. His good humoured tolerance of my ineptitude is little short of saintly.

Thank you Alan.

Thank you M-B. You produce the creative and fascinating maps and variants, and I'll never know how you manage to build, cat-herd, discipline and arbitrate the different teams. I just run the scoreboard ... and enjoy playing the games.

I know everyone joins me in a BIG :thanx: for all you do to make this competition what it is.