European Conquerors

Information: We'll be using a modified Europe map found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=73986) that I cropped to take out some of western Asia and Africa / the Middle East (though Africa and the Middle East is still there). You can get my edited version here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/GAModifiedEuropeMap.zip). It's roughly the size of 200 x 200, it has 27 civilizations (European ones and then some extra starting locations just to fill space). Cities on desert and tundra aren't allowed, the OCN is 28 (14 for a FP), and tech rate 400 (like for a huge size map).

Settings:
I'd prefer to play a civilization on the main landmass, as England is a bit easy; a nice sized island with lots of bonus resources and some good resources as well. Some interesting choices:

* Germany (not the best start, but a good location with lots of rivers / forest / grassland.
* Babylon (while they aren't near many civs, they get good terrain - getting contacts early will be a nice challenge).
* Spain (hard terrain to work with, but a nice amount of land (lots of plains and hills -- irrigation with plains is a must))
* Dutch (near many civs, so early contacts with some food bonuses, but not much space to expand. The UU will be a nice one if we claim the Iron to the south) MY PREFERED CHOICE

Or, we could just go for random. You can discuss the civ here. We can be any civ, but if we are a European one, we'll be in their 'historic' start.

For the level: Monarch is a bit easy to stay ahead in techs, so I'd suggest Emperor. Demigod is a bit challenging if the AIs get good starts with their free settlers.

-----

Another note: Republic is killer. You'll need so many workers (I have 66 and 22 slaves around Chemistry-time in the Middle Ages :crazyeye: ), and in the beginning warriors/MPs, and since your cities won't grow high very quickly, your economy will go downhill. Despotism -> Monarchy (-> Communism, later, if we have lots of cities) is a good choice. Workers are also very important, as there is a lot of land, as is getting as much land as you can in the beginning.

On my Pentium 4, 256 RAM, 1.8 GHz computer, with MapStat and the Internet open, interturns take about 2-5 minutes with CAPS LOCK on in the Middle Ages (it goes fast if no AI civs contact you for diplomacy / asking you to leave their territory).

Some screenshots of my current game on Monarch as Iroquois in a random starting location:
The World Map (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/GAEurope_150AD.JPG)
My Military (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/GAEurope_150ADF3.JPG)

Roster:
Ginger_Ale
Tae_Shala
Elmarae
sanabas
Open

10 turns per person, unless we are in a Middle Ages war or Industrial Age / Modern Age, where it's either 10 or 5 turns, your choice.

I heavilly suggest everyone use a utility like CivAssist (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98630) or CRpMapStat (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=52902). Diplomacy with over 8 civs can take a while, and this way you can know if there is anything worth trading for. It'll save tons of time.

Sign me up ;) I would prefer Spain or England.

Are the Dutch ok for you to play as? All the settings and Emperor are fine? If I can get another signup or two (29 views and only 1 signup!), I'll start this Sunday.

Civ tally:

Dutch - 1
Spain - 1
England - 1

Lets go with Spain !8)
;)

What I expected... the epic game is much more appealing for SGs.

Unless I get at least more interest, I doubt this one will get off the ground.

I've only just gotten Conquests, I'm fairly confident playing Monarch in PTW so I think Emporer will be okay. If you'll have me.

No preference on which civ to use.

I'll have you, yes. :)

I'll start with Spain tomorrow I guess and see if that picks up any lurkers.

I've played the Dutch on the Europe map (about that size). It's a fun start position. :)

Turn 0 - 4000 BC
We have a wheat on plains available, but first, we need to improve other terrain (read: plains on rivers) so we can grow at a

decent pace. Worker moves W, onto a rivered plain.
Madrid is founded. Production is set to a warrior.
Science is Mysticism at 20%, +3 gpt. Minimum research. We're headed towards Monarchy.

Turn 1 - 3950 BC
Worker irrigates.

Turn 4 - 3800 BC
IBT: Madrid: Warrior -> Warrior

Turn 5 - 3750 BC
Worker roads.

Turn 6 - 3700 BC
We meet a Portugese scout.
We trade Ceremonial Burial and 28 gold (our entire treasury) for Pottery (granary!).

Turn 8 - 3600 BC
Worker moves onto wheat.

Turn 9 - 3550 BC
Worker starts a mine.

IBT: Madrid: Warrior -> Warrior

Turn 10 - 3500 BC
Second warrior explores to our north, and our first continues SW.
Luxury to 10%.

Turn 11 - 3450 BC
Portugese learn Warrior Code.

Turn 13 - 3350 BC
There is a wine luxury to the north (3 tiles north) of Madrid.

IBT: Madrid: Warrior -> Granary

Turn 14 - 3300 BC
Third warrior heads east.

Turn 18 - 3100 BC
Portugese settle second city Oporto.
Worker moves NE onto plains.

Turn 19 - 3050 BC
Portugese learn Mysticism.
Worker irrigates.

Turn 20 - 3000 BC
Portugese learn Bronze Working (probably from a hut).
Luxury tax to 20%.

* Comments: Irrigate plains for now, at least until we can get railroads for more food.
Have the southern warrior keep exploring there (pop the hut?) and have the other two warriors work their way towards the north and the other European civs.
Trade when you can to keep up.
Keep heading for Monarchy.
I attached a proposed dotmap. Our core cities will form a nice ring and some will have some nice terrain. I'd go for the one to east of Madrid near Portugal asap to claim that nice spot and block the Portugese in. Comments on the dotmap are appreciated.

Still looking for 2 1 more signups!

Ginger_Ale - just played
Tae_Shala - UP!
Elmarae - on deck
sanabas

10 turns from now on. :)

I'll sign up and have a go. Never played a SG before, but I've got no problem playing on emperor.

not a sign up.
will lurk, and if you need a sub, ill chip in.
regular monarch, climbing up.

No problemm sanabas, I'd be glad to have you.

soul_warrior: Thanks for the offer!

:eek: That's some cradle of civ start to the south!!

My turns:

Madrid: Changed Granary to settler
2950: Got warrior code from a hut
2850: worker builds road
Madrid --> Granary
2800: founded Barcelona --> Granary; forgot to set back lux in 2950 (Doh!) now lux=0%
2750: Got Bronze working from a hut
2710: moved worker East
2670: worker builds road
2590: made contact with Japan
disturbed 3 barbarian warriors
2550: worker irrigates
2510: changed lux=10%
2310: contacted France
2270: Potugal founded Lagos
2230: Madrid builds granary
--> archer

Maybe I made a mistake founding Barcelona in this place and not going north. :hmm:
Try to capture Lagos next and get some techs too.;)
Keep heading for Monarchy.
Trade if you want to.

The 2150BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/GA4_2150BC.zip)

Ok, I looked at your saves and here are my comments:

* We lost the wines to the north. :( And the nearest luxury we know of is near southern France.

* I would change the archer to a settler, and once Barcelona finishes the granary, a worker followed by a settler; we need the help for irrigation.

* Once Madrid finishes the settler, send it near the wheats and cows and golds, on the plain grassland tile (we can live with not being on the coast). That's a very attractive spot.

* Another nice spot for our second settler is 3 W of Madrid, if the Portugese don't take it.

* We can buy Mysticism from the Portugese for 173 gold. I'd do it. We can't use much the gold right now, so we should buy it and then try to sell it to France (maybe along with some gold) to get Masonry.

Spain is a challenge, and this looks like it'll be a fun game. :)

Ginger_Ale
Tae_Shala - just played
Elmarae - UP!
sanabas - on deck
**Open**

10 turns.

For now, we want to expand asap - then we can focus on knocking out the Portugese. They'll have a luxury and some nice terrain.

Got it... I remembered I had signed up for another game but forgot which one it was, so I had to look through all the different posts to find this one. :)

I've now got it bookmarked so that won't be a problem. :)

Preflight
Buy The Wheel from Japan for 5gpt and 195g
Buy Masonry from France for the Wheel
France doesn't have Mysticism and we get it in 10.
We need to set up a settler factory. The wines would have been ideal, early war with Portugal?
Changed Madrid to Settler in 5
2110 BC
Lux to 20% to prevent riots in Madrid

2070 BC
Moving worker to change mined wheat to irr wheat, we need growth not shields atm.

2030 BC
zzz

1990 BC
Pop hut and get Iron Working! :) Sell IW to Portugal for 60g + Mysticism
Lux to 30% to stop Barcelona rioting
Research: Writing in 50 (10% Science)

1950 BC
Contact with Romans.

1910 BC
Madrid > Settler > Worker (3)
Barcelona > Granary > Worker (3)
Sell Mysticism to France for 80g
Tech Parity with all known AI's except Rome who need Mysticism who are broke.

1870 BC
See Green borders

1830 BC
It's only Japan :(

1790 BC
Barcelona > Worker > Warrior (3)
Found another source of Iron South and Gems.
Lux dropped to 10%
Madrid > Worker > Worker (4 turn Worker factory)

1750 BC
Found Seville > Warrior

- Roster -
Ginger_Ale - On deck
Tae_Shala - resting
Elmarae - just played
sanabas - UP

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/GA4-BC1750.jpg

The numbers indicate the distance from the capital for the proposed sites, not too sure at this moment how corruption works in C3C, I do know that RCP is relatively useless, but that corruption is based on distance from the capital.

The 4's are where I think our next settlers should go. The two workers on the hills next to Madrid should continue roading to Seville and then Irrigate the Cow and I think Mine the Wheat. Then they should mine and road the 2 grasslands to the SW of the cow and wheat for when the borders expand when we settle on 11 near the gems which I think should be a close priority.

Once Seville is size 3 (possibly add workers to it if it finishes a granary before then) it will have town (2f 1s) iCow (2f 1s) mWheat (1f 1s) 1 mGrass (0f 1s)
We then just need to get the shields up, perhaps irrigating the plains near the horses.

I think settling the locations closest to Portugal now and the Gems should be our main concern.

At the moment only Rome is behind in techs, they need Mysticism. Otherwise we have the same techs as the AI (that we currently know)

Great trading! :D

RCP doesn't work in C3C - best not to use cities at the same rank if we can avoid it. However, I still like the site 3 W of Madrid. The one 4 NW of Madrid can be moved 1 more NW to get a river.

The one 4 SW of Madrid can be moved 1 S so we get a river = no aqueduct, very nice, and we get some gold hills.

The one 3 NE of Seville can be moved 1 more NE, and the blue 4 can be taken away. It gets us on a river. Then, the 6 near that blue 4 can be moved 1 E since we moved a new city location closeby.

The other locations look fine. Go for the Gems and Iron ASAP -> very important resource, and the gem city will have tons of commerce. :) (You could also put a city on the wheat 3 SW and 1 S of Seville to block the Portugese from settling down there).

Roster
Ginger_Ale - on deck
Tae_Shala
Elmarae - just played
sanabas - UP!
**Open**

OK, will download save now and play today. Not sure where other civs are until I play, but I'd steal the wines off portugal by building the next city 3 tiles N, 1 E of Madrid. Cow, wheat wines & on a river sound good. Also, what is RCP?

RCP = Ring City Placement

It was a tactic/exploit in PTW that you could use to lower corruption in cities the same distance from the capital.

If you can grab the wine and the cow, go for it! :goodjob:

elmarae, you attached the wrong save file. You put the 3000BC one there. So I can't play my turns yet.

Fixed it.. Enjoy.

OK, here is mine. Like I said, haven't played an SG before, so just yell if I should be putting more info in, etc.

First thing, we only have 3 cities, have portugal already hemming us in to the north, and an ocean to the south, which means if we don't get some more settlers out we'll end up with just 6-8 cities and no way to get more without a war against a bigger opponent. We also have 3 workers already, so why are we cranking out more workers instead of settlers? We're also below the military limit, so building warriors that don't cost maintenance yet is much more cost efficient that pushing the lux up to 20 or 30% to stop civil disorders. Anyway, my turns went:

1750BC: Change Barcelona to settler, change madrid to warrior, keep exploring with warriors, roading with workers.

IBT Japs are building Oracle

1725BC: Make contact with Arabs, they have Writing and Horseback Riding

IBT: Portugal founds Sagres W of Madrid, removing more of our expansion room. (I think it was this turn, I forgot to note it down exactly, it might be a turn either side)

1700, 1675: Keep exploring

1650: Madrid builds Warrior ----> Settler, Portugal now has Horseback riding

1625: Seville builds Warrior ----> Settler, both madrid and sevilles warrior are fortified for content faces.

1600: Keep exploring

1575: Barcelona grows to 3, put an entertainer there to avoid disorder

1550: AI does some trading, putting us behind plenty. Japs have Horseback, Rome has caught up by getting mysticism, and moved past getting writing, Arabs have Polytheism. Madrid grows to 4, give them an entertainer too.

1525: Barcelona builds Settler ----> Warrior. Start settler moving towards Lagos, I plan to settle 1 tile E of the gems, grabbing both the cow and wheat, and building temple & other culture generators to steal the gems.

IBT: Aztec and Greek warriors both appear. (Why are the Aztecs in Europe??)

1500: Aztecs have Writing, maths and horseback, Greeks have just writing. So I can play middleman. I trade:

Greeks give Writing, we give 8gpt, 205 gold.
Portugese give Horseback & 3 gold, we give writing
Greeks give back 207 gold, we give Horseback

Net result, we have picked up Horseback and Writing for 8gpt. We are now at tech parity with everyone except the Aztecs who have Maths and the Arabs who have Polytheism. Unfortunately we can't afford to play middleman between them too. We now have enough gold in the bank to race for philosophy. We're a reasonable chance of getting there first, we certainly should get there in time to trade it for other techs. So I push Science to 90%, and now that I type this, we should change the entertainer in Madrid to a scientist, which I didn't do. As soon as Madrid builds their settler we can push Sci to 100, and I'd send the Madrid settler to the E of Barcelona, as we have competition for expansion in that direction, but no competition for expansion south.

1575: Barcelona grows to 3, put an entertainer there to avoid disorder

Use the luxury slider! It saves us some food and the citizen will make up for the gold.

8 gpt...that's a lot, but it'll be ok. :)

I got it, will play tomorrow. Tae_Shala is on deck.

(PS: The Aztecs are in Europe as a random civ to fill in space.)

ooh yeah that was my error, those worker builds should be warrior builds. I agree with G_A, us the luxury slider. Food is more important in the beginning, the faster the cities grow the faster they get enough pop to build a settler.

Otherwise nice set, getting 2 techs for a net 8gpt is great.

Turn 0 - 1500 BC
We use the luxury slider, and fire the entertainer.
Mathematics in 30, -6 gpt.

IBT: Madrid: Settler -> Settler

Turn 1 - 1475 BC
Now Aztecs, Arabia, and Greece know Mathematics and Polytheism. We continue the research. Settler heads S.
Lower lux tax to 0%.

Turn 2 - 1450 BC
Toledo is founded. Production on temple - maybe we can flip Lagos, and it'll give Barcelona a Game tile.
Lux tax to 10% now.

Turn 3 - 1425 BC
IBT: Barcelona: Warrior -> Settler

Turn 6 - 1350 BC
Santiago is founded in the south, by all the cattle and wheat. Production on worker.

Turn 7 - 1325 BC
Luxury tax to 20%.

Turn 8 - 1300 BC
IBT: Madrid: Settler -> Settler
Seville: Settler -> Settler

Turn 9 - 1275 BC
Luxury tax to 0%. Mathematics in 15.

Turn 10 - 1250 BC
Nothing. 2 settlers are on go to routes to cities. The locations: northern settler to the gold hill 4 N of where it is, to block the Portuguese. Southern settler: to the plains N of the Iron.

Other city locations: 4 SE of Madrid, by the cow, and the hill 3 E of Seville.

Roster
Ginger_Ale - just played
Tae_Shala - UP!
Elmarae - on deck
sanabas
Open

Hmm, I'll have to check that one. From memory entertainer instead of pushing the lux cost us 2 food in the box after the settler got built, for 5 or so extra gold. 2 food was no big deal as shields were the limiting factor on settler production, not food. Doesn't matter.

Just curious, why change to Maths?

The AI goes after Map Making almost as soon as they get Writing or they choose it as their free tech with Philosophy. Mathematics would have good trading value, but I don't think the AI would go after it as heavily as MM. We could've also done Literature.

Except 3 civs already have maths, so how does it have good trading value?

By the time I started it, they didn't have it -- we can still trade it to other civs we meet for a possible trade if they don't know it.

1225BC
Toledo builds temple --> Granary
Zulu build oracle
Lux=10%

1150BC
Santiago was rioting
founded Murcia
contacted the Aztecs

1125BC
founded Valencia
build gem colony

1100BC
founded Saragoza

1050BC learned Maths --> Polytheism

1000BC Scientist in Seville

Roster
Ginger_Ale
Tae_Shala - just played
Elmarae - UP!
sanabas - on deck
Open

Preflight
Why was a colony made on the gems when a settler was nearby to claim it anyway? That seems to be just a waste of a worker.

975 BC
Zaragoza > Warrior > Worker

950 BC
Seville > Settler > Worker

925 BC
Found Pamplona > Warrior
Contact with America
Buy Map Making from America for HBR + 170g
Sell Map Making to Greece for Poly + 60g
Sell Map Making to France for CoL + 20g
Sell Map Making to Rome for Phil + 110g
Sell CoL to America for 190g
Aztecs have Literature otherwise we are advanced in the tech race.
Started research on Republic (min research)


900 BC
zzz

875 BC
Aztec builds Pyramids
Ottomans builds Great Lighthouse
Egypt builds The Great Wall
Greece builds The Mausoleum of Mausollos
Everyone casades to building Temple of Artemis
Madrid > Settler > Barracks
Found Vitoria > Worker

850 BC
Zaragoza > Worker > Barracks (started forest chop in 5)
Seville > Worker > Barracks

825 BC
Murcia > Temple > Worker
Found Santander > Temple
Found Asturias > Barracks

800 BC
Barcelona > Warrior > Barracks
Toledo > Granary > Barracks
Pamplona > Warrior > Barracks

775 BC
zzz

750 BC
Santiago > Worker > Worker
Valencia > Worker > Worker

- Roster -
Ginger_Ale - On Deck
Tae_Shala -
Elmarae - just played
sanabas - UP

Started research on Republic (min research)

NO! We need Monarchy. Republic's unit support just doesn't cut it, and the 2 gpt for extra units will kill us (I've tried it before). We can either continue the research and trade for Monarchy, or switch research (let's do the first, and when we get it, trade to all the AIs so they go into Republic and kill themselves economically. :evil: )

Otherwise, nice trading. :)

Preflight
Why was a colony made on the gems when a settler was nearby to claim it anyway? That seems to be just a waste of a worker.

Because it is the fastest way to get a road in Mountains. ;) You will see that it pays off very fast.

got it. Haven't looked at the game itself, but I find Republic much nicer than monarchy. On min research I doubt we'll be able to trade it much, as I think a few others will beat us to it.

OK. As per my first go, we have a lot of space to expand into, and not enough settlers in production. So Barcelona, Madrid, Seville and Vitoria are changed to Settlers. Check the techs, Rome have Literature, Greece have Monarchy, Aztecs have Lit & Currency. We can't afford currency or monarchy, and while we can afford literature, there's no point as we can't on-trade it for enough. I also notice where Toledo was founded, and wonder why it wasn't 1 more tile N, as that way we'd have a wine.

730BC: Murcia worker ---> worker

IBT: Mecca builds Temple of Artemis

710BC: Tax collector in Madrid to avoid disorder. (Before anyone tells me again to use the luxury slider, lux slider costs us 5 gold, tax collector costs 1 food, which will translate to 0 more turns before the city grows down the track. So I'll keep the lux at 0)

IBT: Rome builds Great Library, Greece builds Hanging Gardens.

690BC: Madrid Settler ---> Settler

Check the techs to see what Rome will get free, and the Aztecs & Greece both have monarchy and currency. We still can't afford Monarchy, but can afford currency. So we trade:

Buy currency off Greece for 747 gold, 2 gpt.
Sell currency to Rome for Literature & 1 gold.
Sell Lit to America for 30 gold & 2 workers
Sell Lit to china for 5 gold and 1 worker
Sell Lit to Arabs for 54 gold

My plan is to use those extra workers to improve the area around Santiago, then join them to Santiago to give us a size 12 high production city. So I change Santiago's production to a temple.

670: Tax collector in Barcelona

IBT: Greeks are building Sun Tzu's.

650: Seville Settler ---> warrior
Murcia worker ---> spearman
Greece and Rome are both in the middle ages.

IBT: Aztecs demand 27 gold, I give it to them.

630: zzz

610: Barcelona settler ---> spearman
Santander temple ---> library
Make contact with Carthage, sell them Horseback for 114 gold. Aztecs are now in the middle ages

590: Toledo barracks ---> spearman
Asturias in disorder, oops. Only size 2, but unconnected, and I didn't notice them grow too big. Give them a tax collector, change to spearman, wasting 1 shield.
Jaen founded ---> worker

570: Valencia worker ---> worker
Zaragosa barracks ---> spearman
Asturias spearman ---> barracks, sack tax collector
Sell Literature to portugal for 64 gold.

550: Seville Warrior ---> settler
Vitoria settler ---> warrior
Tax collector in Madrid, this time it's 2 food v 5 gold.

Carthage has discovered Construction!! They're still isolated from others, so we trade them philosophy, code of laws and Literature for construction, 7 gold and a worker.

Check the techs, we're now 3 techs behind greece, 2 behind rome and 1 behind the aztecs. Only 1 ahead of carthage after buying construction, and at least 2 techs (currency & construction) ahead of everybody else. Hopefully one of those others will get monarchy for us. My guess will be america, I've seen them reach monarchy without having Alphabet before.


forum won't let me upload the save, as it's larger than 500k, so I've zipped it, but that's close to 500k as well. What do I do when it grows beyond 500k zipped?

When the file gets above 500 KB, scroll to the bottom of the page and choose upload file. If it gets over 3 MB... well, hopefully that won't happen.

BTW, a screenshot is always nice when there are lurkers :twitch: , although I realize it can't be for every turnset. Can't sign up, I'm busy and the map seems a bit big for my taste.

Got it, will look for a trade for Monarchy. Will also post a picture for lurkers.

Turn 0 - 550 BC
Turn luxury slider up to 10%, and science to 10%, Republic at min. We definately should not be researching this tech, but oh well...
Change a spearman build to a worker in Barcelona. Otherwise, nice to see we pretty much have the Portuguese blocked in.

IBT: Madrid: Settler -> Library

Turn 1 - 530 BC
Settler heads east. Logrono is founded. Production to worker.
Micromanage cities and lower luxury tax back to 0%.

IBT: We can now build the FP!
Barcelona: Worker -> Worker
Santiago: Temple -> Harbor

Turn 2 - 510 BC
Valladoid is founded. Production to worker.

IBT: Toledo: Spear -> Sword

Turn 3 - 490 BC
Nothing much...

IBT: Murcia: Spear -> Sword

Turn 4 - 470 BC
Greece knows Feudalism.

Turn 5 - 450 BC
Palma and Cordoba are founded.

Turn 6 - 430 BC
Change some builds around...

Turn 7 - 410 BC
Greece has Engineering.

IBT: Greeks start Knights Templar. They must know Chivalry. :(

Turn 8 - 390 BC
Buy Monarchy from China for 790 gold and Currency. We revolt. 2 turns of anarchy.

Turn 10 - 350 BC
We are a Monarchy!

However, I feel like my computer cannot handle this game - the other game was a struggle, but I did not have to write a log nor take as much time as this for a SG. I'm not sure if I can continue, but if I dropped out that would only leave you with 3 people. I wish I had a better computer. I will lurk this, but for now, I don't see my computer's performance getting any better. :( Sorry...

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/GA4_350BC.SAV)

Roster:
Ginger_Ale - autoskip
Tae_Shala - up
Elmarae - on deck
sanabas

Sorry you can't run it any more G_A...

Tae are you there or do you need a skip?

I have to skip this turn. I am very low on time this week. Sorry.