SGOTM6 - Celts. Team barbslinger.

Welcome to your team thread for SGOTM06. I hope you enjoy the game.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM6-START.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Celts
World size - 100 wide by 130 high.
Difficulty Emperor (approximately)
Landform Contiguous Pangea

Here are a number of links you might find useful.

The Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1733966&postcount=61)
GOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71788)
Upload a Save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php)
Download a save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)
SGOTM06 Maintenance Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110909)

This Months' sponsored variant is Cultural Celtic Communists the rules for which are as follows.

1. The only allowed governments are despotism and communism.
2. You must win by 100K victory condition.

Your save has been uploaded to the server and will become available to you on the 7th February.

M60A3TTS reporting for duty. :salute:

I am present. I wonder what that water is (fresh/salt, connected to the ocean?). I also wonder how difficult it will be to irrigate the cow.

Some insightful discussion regarding fast 100k victories has occurred in the HOF forum. It would be good to read that. Some of it is hidden in the HOF w/o threads thread.

It looks like three settler factories could be set up (assuming the cow is irrigatible, all 4-turn).

The cow tile may not be getting irrigated depending on the terrain, i.e. a red herring, but we know for sure that the wheat and game tile can be. As the saying goes, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. My suggested opening move would be settler 2NW. Start a temple. Worker 2 west to chop the game. At 15 shields, the chop would get the temple in real quick. Then it's a matter of irrigating the game and wheat for our 4-turn settler factory. If by chance the settler on his first move NW spots another food source, the second move can be adjusted accordingly.

Hey, i'm here.

I need to go to work today but i'll post some thoughts when I get back, looking forward to this game!

Good to have you with us, chunkymonkey. Now that I'm here, I do have to disappear for about 48 hours on business. Will be back on Tuesday night, but will try to post comments.

:salute:
i'd have sent the settler SW, but M60's plan seems better to me.

I agree with M60s plan. It seems to be the most sensible based on what we can see, and since this game is basically going to be about whichever team can pump out settlers at a faster rate, we should make sure we have the most powerful tiles at our disposal right from the off. The only two downsides I can see are the two turns to settle, and moving away from coast, xcept this is pangea, so that shouldn't pose a problem. The only suggestion I'd make to to move the worker W before the settler moves, this way we can uncover the two blank squares before the final decision is made.

I'm glad we're considering the temple first approach, i imagine we'll wanting to be doing this in every newly built/acquired city.

Anybody got any ideas as to city spacing? I suggest using close to ICS, since our most important builds are going to be early game (temple, library, swordsmen) and they are not shield heavy. Obviously we can vary this once we know locations of AI, resources etc...

Also, research path? We can try to do the philosophy slingshot to literature for the libraries, since we won't be needing republic (maybe only as a powerful trading tool). We should also try to locate iron as soon as possible.

Just to note, i hardly use Communism, and i tend to go straight into republic as soon as i research it, so i'm not akin to pop-rushing. Somebody's going to have to fill me in on the basic mechanics, advantages, disadvantages etc...

Can't think of anything else that's jumping out at me right now, so i'll go have my sunday evening whisky! :)

I agree with having very tight spacing.

Another question is whether we should build the Temple of Artemis, or just pop-rush temples in new cities. The advantage of the latter approach is that the culture will double. The advantage of the former approach is that we could build other stuff faster. I'd lean towards pop-rushing temples, since they'll stay after education.

Just had a thought... what if the game cannot be irrigated directly, it looks like there is forest to NE,NW, an N of it. In this case it will take us longer to get optimum output, than if we went and irrigated the wheat first thing, which we know we can do.

However, the 10 shield boost would be nice. Anybody know if the shields do actually come to the city even though the forest would ot be in our radius?

Regarding ToA, i think it is only worth building if we are considering stopping research completely before Education, and just ICS with temples, library, and cathedral. Otherwise, we should just pop-rush temples, they are extremely cheap. Capturing the ToA on the other hand... :mischief:

change of mind
since we're going at least close to ICS, we may settle on spot, go for a quick settler and settle our 2nd city on the planned spot. i think rapid expansion is more important then early temples, but with the cheap temples we should be able to build some in between settlers. however, we should grab as much land as possible as early as possible, so i vote for early granary in our settler pump.

The reason I would not settle on the spot is that it will probably not give us a superior growth curve. We will need another city to take advantage of the wheat and game. The move 2NW allows us to take advantage as soon as we get border expansion of Entremont on turn 7.

you're right, with the need for culture making the capitol our settler pump is the better option.

Anybody know if the shields do actually come to the city even though the forest would ot be in our radius?
I'm pretty sure they do.

i'm pretty sure they don't, they do if they're in the 21 radius but not in the cultural radius. :confused:

i'm pretty sure they don't, they do if they're in the 21 radius but not in the cultural radius. :confused:
That's what I meant. Within the 21 tiles.

That water is saltwater, by the way.

Yes, we will get the shields even though the border will not have expanded at that time.

Thanks for the email Tim. I'm here and reporting. I am flying to Minnesota on business tomorrow AM and will be back Saturday so I can not start the game. I will monitor the thread on the road though.

So who wants to start? I probably couldn't play until Thursday.

I can't play until Thursday/Friday either. I don't mind doing it, but we should probably get this rolling sooner rather than later.

Have we settled on a strategy?

Settler 2 NW. Worker chops game, roads, irrigates... (chopping other forests if necessary to irrigate but remember to time for efficient shield use). With the irrigated game, we have 5fpt, so we can concentrate on mining those BGs.

Initial builds - Temple, Warrior, Settler? (optimised of course)
Research path? - straight to literature at max? or republic for trading?

Signing in.
Reading the thread... :)
jj

i need to finish another game today, i don't think i can play 2. but should have time tomorrow.

in case we need 2 chops for game irrigation, i'd send the settler to the wheat first and build warrior(s) until our worker is ready for the chops. will rather invest the shields in granary then temple if possible.

i'm having problems deciding for a research path. researching something we don't need (like republic) is a bit risky, but would be great if it works. depends a bit on the number of contacts. we can certainly use lib, but i don't see us building GLib.

I've just had a different idea. I think we should settle one square west, and still go for the game chop. This has numerous advantages:

- We gain one turn.
- We get to use the game forest straight away rather than just a BG (therefore temple build will be quicker).
- The game can be irrigated straight away after chopping.
- We still have the three BGs (at least) and forest in our radius necessary for our four turn settler pump.
- We save a space around the wheat for another four turn settler pump.

Only disadvantage i can see:
- We lose a shield from the BG... not a big deal in my estimation for the purposes of the settler pump.

I'm at uni now, i'll refine this when i get home and do the calclations as to what we can build and work every turn, but just thought i'd throw this up as a suggestion before we start.

I'm inclined to go with my suggestion though :)

@el_filet

The sooner we get the temple in, which is going to help with happiness anyway, we're going to get a whole extra bunch of culture (beating the other teams could come down to a few turns)... i'd prefer to build temple as a priority, but if noone else agrees...

The only reason i suggested Literature is because i think our priority builds in the AA are going to be settlers, temples, libraries, swordsmen. So its either IW or Literature...

Only disadvantage i can see:
- We lose a shield from the BG... not a big deal in my estimation for the purposes of the settler pump.

what about the lack of food bonus? we need 2 bonus food squares for a 4 turn settler factory. or am i missing something?

i agree on your (chunkymonkey) priorities in AA. i hope we can do some expanding before we need to go to war, so i vote for research toward lit.

an early temple is certainly a good thing, i just think in our settler pump a granary is even more important. i think we can (we probably have to) build the temple before we're set up for 4 turn settlers, but we should max grow as early as possible.

I've just had a different idea. I think we should settle one square west, and still go for the game chop. This has numerous advantages:

- We gain one turn.
- We get to use the game forest straight away rather than just a BG (therefore temple build will be quicker).
- The game can be irrigated straight away after chopping.
- We still have the three BGs (at least) and forest in our radius necessary for our four turn settler pump.
- We save a space around the wheat for another four turn settler pump.

Only disadvantage i can see:
- We lose a shield from the BG... not a big deal in my estimation for the purposes of the settler pump.

Does a single irrigated game or wheat gives us a 4-turn settler factory? We have to be +5 in the food bin for that. In any case. I really don't like settling on BGs. That's a lost shield for the entire game which can add up over time. To save one turn doesn't offset that loss IMO.

I will be back tonight and can open the game if no one else can.

Remember, the Celts are agricultural. 3 food in the city center + 4 food for the irrigated game/wheat = +5fpt.

We might as well go for philosophy. Literature would either be the free tech or the next one.

In any case. I really don't like settling on BGs. That's a lost shield for the entire game which can add up over time.



Are you sure? What happens when the city hits size 7?


Sorry - but I'm not playing and I tend to get emotionally involved. :blush:

Remember, the Celts are agricultural. 3 food in the city center + 4 food for the irrigated game/wheat = +5fpt.
-1 despotism penalty => +4fpt

now i forgot the irrigation :crazyeye:: +5fpt (hopefully final :))

in that case, we should consider this option. i like the plan. i hate to give up a BG too, but if there are enough BG closeby to make the 4 turn settler factory happen, it's worth it.

Are you sure? What happens when the city hits size 7?


You got me, MB, sort of, but I believe we don't pick up that extra shield until pop 12 or 13. That still takes a while, esp if it's 13 and we're now talking hospitals. And with rail after communism, we lose the 3rd shield.

Note that even if the capital is founded 2 tiles NW, another city could also use the game or wheat.

My idea was sort of based on the premise that Entremont would be our main settler pump for most, if not all of the early game. Settling on the BG is partially abhorrent to me too, and I would usually never ever do it, but it has this main advantage:

We can irrigate the game straight away after chopping and get the magic 5fpt. If we have to muck around with chopping forests and irrigating all over the place we have effectively lost a few turns of growth.

In my opinion these extra turns of growth are much more important than a single shield, which we don't actually require in the REX phase due to having all the necessary shields around for the 4 turn settler pump. Once we stop using Entremont as the settler pump, probably mid middle-ages, the extra shield that we could have gained will pale into comparison to the extra growth we received at the beginning. In my opinion...

I don't feel extremely dogmatic about this, but I feel it is the best option for us. I would be willing to play the first turn set to carry it through, and then all abuse can be directed at me for the rest of the game. Or if the team prefers M60s idea, then he can run with that...

The city gets the extra shield if it's on a BG at size 7. The industrious extra shield is what comes at size 13.

The city gets the extra shield if it's on a BG at size 7. The industrious extra shield is what comes at size 13.
That's what I figured, and as soon as Entremont stops being our settler pump, for which it has all the requirements, it will be size 7 in no time at all.

Note that even if the capital is founded 2 tiles NW, another city could also use the game or wheat.
Of course, but I like the fact that we will be able to work the game straight away. Entremont has no real reason to be anywhere near the wheat.

Anyway, on a lighter note, thought it would be useful to have a record of who our friends are going to be.

Well no one has really stated a strong opinion of either view, although e_f seems to lean towards chunky's recommendation. So let's go with it. We are in agreement with temple as a first build and getting a settler factory up and running at first opportunity. No one has said got it, so I now "got it". Results coming up.

The save at 3000 BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC3000_01.SAV)

Turn 0 (4000BC) And away we go…Settler and worker west.

IBT- Barb kills us, game over. No, not really!

Turn 1 (3950BC) Entremont settled, and we will pick up a silk on culture expansion. Worker 1 west to chop the forest. 5 BGs to work around the city, so a good location. Start a run on Alpha at min sci. It’s 50 turns across the board. Start chopping the game tile.

Then nothing up until…

Turn 6 (3700BC) Forest chop done, temple in 7, start irrigating. Lux to 20% with growth in 1.

IBT- zzz

Turn 7 (3650BC) Temple now in 2. MM to bring it in 1.

IBT- Entremont temple> warrior in 4.

Turn 8 (3600BC) Lux to zero.

IBT- Entremont expands.

Turn 9 (3550BC) zzzz

IBT- nothing.

Turn 10 (3500BC) Irrigation complete, start the road.

IBT- nothing

Turn 11 (3450BC) zzzz

IBT- Entremont warrior>warrior

Turn 12 (3400BC) Start our warrior exploring south.

IBT- nothing.

Turn 13 (3350BC) Lux to 10%. Worker to BG tile.

IBT- Entremont warrior> warrior.

Turn 14 (3300BC) Warrior explores south

IBT- nothing

Turn 15 (3250BC) Quiet

IBT- Quiet

Turn 16 (3200BC) Warrior confirms the cow east of Entremont has no direct access, so we made the right call. Warrior in 2, MM growth in 2.

IBT- Warrior>granary.

Turn 17 (3150BC) Lux back to zero. South warrior spots a silk 6 tiles south of Entremont.

IBT- Nothing

Turn 18 (3100BC) Same

IBT- Still quiet.

Turn 19 (3050BC) More exploring,

IBT- Quiet

(3000 BC) Entremont size 4 with growth in 7, granary in 6. North warrior climbs a hill and spots a Japanese warrior. Find them up BW and wheel, they need pottery, but will not trade techs. They’ll give 60 gold for pottery and that’s it. Firaxis score 90. And done.

We don't have an order yet, so who wants to grab it next?

And FWIW, chunky's strategy worked just fine. After this set, with the staff team still pending, we have the best results by a hair over Team Bede. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Barbslinger_3000BC.JPG

Good job!
Seems like our little gamble paid off.
Thinking about where we should put the second city.
Two alternatives stand out, both the bonus food tiles.
1) On the coast south of the game, to get the dyes on expansion.
2) One tile NE of the wheat.
Two lux so close is nice.
I cant play today, and I guess we need to hang back for some discussions and opinions here and not race on. Remember, we have plenty of time for this game, and there is no need to rush it just cause the other teams move along. If we take it easy we can also see their graphs and then we know what to beat. :)
JJ

Good job M60, thanks for executing the idea so elegantly :thumbsup:
I can take it and play if nobody else wants to.

There won't be many decisions to make before the next turn set since the settler probably won't fall out before the end, but if everyone who feels strongly about our next city location wants to voice their opinions that'll get the discussion.

Depends what we want from our next city but if we stick one south of the game as per tomassjj's suggestion, we can get another 4-turn pump. Or we could have a 2 turn worker pump by the wheat...

I'm at uni now, but i'll leave the game untouched until everyone's had a chance to comment...

well done M60 - as usual. i'd have liked to see the silk chop go to the granary, but we'll certainly find use for it.

both suggested sites look good, the S slighly better due to lux (dyes ;)) & settler factory potential. but i'd build the N site first, spit out workers and hopefully get the same start as in the capital for the S (temple with forest chop->granary, sneak in MP as needed).
2 early luxes will help, but without workers they won't come online for a while.

a general question about city placement:
what are our intentions? ICS?
i don't like ICS, but we'll certainly need a dense build. i prefer to build cities as needed and fill in spots as possible. on the other hand, ICS will probably be required to get a good score. if so, we need to plan the early cities accordingly.

Ah, the ICS issue. Somehow conveniently forgot about that...as I dont usually play like that in single games.
I guess in a 100K race we would need many cities with temples and cath, libs very quick. And you dont need an enormous amount of tiles for each city, considering despotism whipping either... Anyway, this is a new strat to me, so only ranting here.

One MadBax note from the maintenance thread: Barb activity "is set to raging and in crackers words "with regionally intense barbarian activity."
Something to keep in mind when settlers start wandering...
jj

I'm tempted to put the next city by the wheat and start churning out workers, however I would prefer to put it 1 square NW of the wheat. This gives us a forest to play with on expansion, and allows us to dump another couple of cities (eg. a city 2 NE of the wheat, and a city E,SE,SE) in that space. Denser packing, but still viable cities.

Although... starting to get a second settler pump by the game constructed right now would be great. It would take a little bit of working, but whilst the infrastructure, mining etc. was getting set up, it could have a temple and start building some settler escorts (which will help with the barbs...)

I'm not sure yet... :coffee:

And yes, i think ICS (or an approximate) is definitely the way to go after we've put down our 3 core cities... i'm intrigued to see what lies to the West beyond all those hills and mountains :hmm:

Some general stuff:

Thoughts on ICS. Before we go hog wild with new cities, we need to think about the implications of extended despotism, and our ability to economically support a lot of infrastructure. Once we get building totally corrupt cities, our cash flow will start dropping as we add the additional cultural buildings. And research as a consequence is going to be slow.

Towards that end, I would consider the Great Library as a definite thing to build or acquire through other means. In extended despotism as much as anything, we have to be thrifty. The less cash we spend on science, the more we can use to support the military and infrastructure builds. I would not recommend we build a lot of barracks, again relating to their maintenance costs. Probably no more than 4-5.

The other wonder we should look to prebuild or acquire is Sistine's. By doubling the happiness of cathedrals and temples, that would keep our lux taxes down even further. Again, a cash-saving play. Obviously a long way to go, but wanted to at least plant the seed for later discussion.

I do like the idea of getting a worker pump going so we can chop them trees and accelerate the temple and later library builds. It will become more of an advantage as each town becomes more corrupt.

A city could go 2 SE of the wheat to pick up the cow.

Entremont seems close to a 4-turn warrior-settler factory, but I haven't been able to see a way to do it (haven't looked much, to be honest). But I think Entremont and the city by the game could be 3.5-5.5 factories. On second thought, I'm not sure corruption would allow that for the game city. But a 4-6 factory would work.

Good idea Tim, I think thats where I'd like to put the next town. It'll only be able to use the wheat until it expands (after Entremont expands obviously), but that'll be good enough for our 5fpt. Once it has expanded it can make use of the cow.

Anyway, I'll play this at some point after I get back from my lecture. If anyone wants to stop me then they have about 6 hours.

I decided to finish a turn early due to some extra info...

The Save! (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC2590_01.SAV)

Our settler will be complete next turn, but I thought we'd better discuss the possibility of a different city site based on what the warriors have discovered.

Turnlog 3000BC - 2590BC

0 - 3000BC - Stick sci to 10% without bothering research time. Increase revenue by 1gpt.

1 - 2950BC - Move northern warrior west onto hill. He spots another wheat. Move southern warrior onto hill.

IBT - The Japnese learn Alphabet.

2 - 2900BC - Southern warrior moves west. Northern warrior moves SW.

3 - 2850BC - Worker moves onto next BG. Northern warrior continues exploring. Southern warrior continues exploring to the west.

4 - 2800BC - MM Entremont for gold, production and growth unchanged. Worker mines next BG. Warriors continue.

5 - 2750BC - MM Entremont to prevent growth. Warriors continue.

IBT - Entremont builds Granary - start settler.

6 - 2710BC - Warriors keep on going.

7 - 2670BC - Increase lux to 20%.

IBT - Japanese learn Warrior code.

8 - 2630BC - Northern warrior finds some spices. MM Entremont to match settler production to growth.

9 - 2590BC - Northern Warrior meets the Mongols. They are up BW, Masonry and WC.

Firaxis 101, Jason 34, Culture 82 (6cpt)

Here's a piccie:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/pic1.JPG

As you can see, the wheat to the NW gives us another potential settler factory. Do we want to grab this now, considering the Mongols probably live somewhere to the west, or should we continue with our original plan...

I would go with the new wheat, 3NW 1N.

Wow, plenty of food around. A city could go between the wheats, but I'm not sure it would be able to take advantage of that. M60's proposed location seems good.

Sounds good to me.

I propose the 3rd city should go in our originally planned location between wheat and cow, then the 4th can go near the southern game, but we won't get that far...

Initial builds for 2nd city?

Suggest - Warrior, Worker, Temple... Worker etc...

I'd let Entremont build a warrior next (2 turns for that), and send the current garrison along as escort. That way City 2 can go straight to worker-temple.

I've done a little more calculation, and a city by the northern wheat, a city by the game, and a city by the cow (if the wheat was mined) all could be 5-7 factories. But one should be a worker factory (all could do that at size 4).

Entremont is currently set up quite nicely to be a 4-turn factory (after the interturn, that is), so the worker could go to work elsewhere. I can't see a way to get the settler out 3 turns after building the warrior. By the way, the forest could be switched to the water to get more gold, as the extra shield will be picked up on growth.

I would say warrior, worker, temple, granary for the second city. I would say worker first for the third city.

@ TB: If you want to grab it next after cm posts, do what you think best.

I'll play this evening, especially since I'll be gone the next two days.

2590(0)-Do the MM I suggested

IBT-Entremont settler->settler

2550(1)-lower lux to 10%

2510(2)-zzz

2470(3)-raise lux to 20%

2430(4)-found Alesia in M60's spot, start on warrior
see Chinese? border in the NW

IBT-Entremont settler->settler

2390(5)-lower lux to 10%

2350(6)-China is up BW, masonry, WC, down CB
sell ceremonial burial to China for masonry, 22g
buy alphabet from Japan for masonry, pottery, 162g
sell alphabet to China for warrior code, bronze working, 88g
buy the wheel from Mongols for alphabet, 10g
we're now even with Japan, Mongols, up the wheel on China
I see no horses
90% research on writing, 37 turns, -2gpt

2310(7)-raise lux to 20%
find incense out to the west

IBT-Japan founds city across straight from city site (wouldn't it be nice to flip it?); luckily not next to the cow

2270(8)-found Lugdunum near wheat and cow, start on worker

IBT-Entremont settler->settler

2230(9)-Mongolia is to the west?
buy iron working from China for the wheel, 65g, 2gpt
sell iron working to Japan for 195g
I'm glad mad-bax wasn't so cruel to not give the resource for our UU; Alesia will get iron upon expansion

IBT-China kicks out our warrior
Alesia warrior->worker

2190(10)-lower lux to 10%
I'll play an extra turn to even it out

2150(11)-raise lux to 20%

Notes: settler one south (as previously discussed)
Don't hook up iron until we've produced as many warriors as we want
Sorry, I only just now realized Lugdunum is not on the river, but the cow will make up for it. So irrigate the wheat and it'll be a worker factory. I'm not sure whether it will have to be at size 5 or if size 4 (after considering it, I believe size 4 would work once it is connected to the capital) would work for it.
I took a screenie, but I forgot to paste it. Only the cities and settler have changed from the previous screenshot anyways.

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC2150_01.SAV).

el_filet or jj is up next.

I am up in another game, so please el, take it if you can.
JJ

Comments:
Nice tech trading!
Just so we dont get lost in the all the "pumping" - any culture builds up?
Are we building collossus in the coastal cow town? Or prebuilding something else?
Naturally we should be worrying about land grab, and expand towards the Mongols.
Remember that they are very agressive, and that there are plenty of barbs out there.
Soon Horsies too, *shrug*

i'm up in 3 games, not sure i can play before you :)
will finish my games an look if you already got it 'til then...

nice trading, good to know we have iron. hope we won't need it for a while.

Sorry, I only just now realized Lugdunum is not on the river
We could use a worker pump anyway, but i don't see how you can grab wheat and cow without beein on the river. guess i'll see when i open the save.

city priority:
next settler will be sent to dyes/game i guess (worker should go with it if aviable). but what afterwards? i'd say spices first (needs escort) and wool next. are there any chokes we need to secure first?

Nice job with all the tech trades :thumbsup:

Whoever's next, Alesia will need micromanaging in two turns to optimise production.

Naturally we should be worrying about land grab, and expand towards the Mongols. Remember that they are very agressive, and that there are plenty of barbs out there.
Yep, I agree, we should always consider the possibility that Genghis will declare on us at any time. We should also try to grab the spices before the Chinese do, having three luxes this early in the game will be very useful. A city next to the freshwater by the spices would be perfect.

Don't hook up iron until we've produced as many warriors as we want
Good point, but we should try to strike a balance between having a massive band of warriors to defend with and a handful of swordmen, who are infinitely more useful. At our current research rate we're not going to have an awesome amount of upgrade money. BTW how much does a warrior-gallic swordsman upgrade cost?

Sorry, I only just now realized Lugdunum is not on the river, but the cow will make up for it. So irrigate the wheat and it'll be a worker factory. I'm not sure whether it will have to be at size 5 or if size 4 (after considering it, I believe size 4 would work once it is connected to the capital) would work for it.
That's strange I could have sworn it would lie on the river. Oh well, doesn't matter really, however, there is a minor flip risk in Lugdunum now. Perhaps we should switch to warrior, then worker... gives Lugdunum a chance to grow as well.

Suggestions for settler in production? I say either spices, or goats to the west. We are going to need to start producing escorts for these settlers...

Good luck to whoever takes it next... remember the settler in transit needs to go one square S.

GS costs 40 shields, means 60 gold for upgrade iirc.

I got it.
I can play sometime tomorrow (sunday), hopefully around 1500 CET.
As I havent played for 100K I would be happy to get some advice on priorities now.
- Is it just land grab?
- Do we sneak in a temple or two?
- Any culture phat wonder?
- Does the culture of an improvement double again after 2000 yrs as after 1000?
I guess not, but can someone confirm this?
- Settler to silks I guess?
- When can we start crackin the whip? Isnt it 20 shields pr pop?
Ah... sorry for the barrage of questions, I just want to make sure we are clear on the strat here.
- I guess not hooking up the iron is solely with the purpose of upgrading our front forces later on to Gallics?
JJ

There is a post in the maintenance thread that mentions that the Temple of Zeus requires silks, not ivory to build, once we learn math. Could be a good thing for us.

@ JJ- You get 19 shields for one pop. We are in a land grab phase at the moment. A temple or two wouldn't hurt. Culture only doubles once AFAIK. I am not in agreement that we should spend a lot of cash on upgrades. We are going to need to be cash conservative since we are going to have a cash crunch the longer we stay in despotism and the more improvements we add. I do think that we should make a run for the GLib, so we can run at zero science. Entremont should be able to generate enough shields to do the job.

- Is it just land grab?
- Do we sneak in a temple or two?
- Any culture phat wonder?
Its a balance between landgrab and sneaking in early culture, as is most of the strategy of civ, but i feel as though we've been given the chance to expand quite far out, so let's concentrate on getting as many cities as possible towards the west. Obviously, whilst new cities are growing to settler production status, they can be building temples.

Does the culture of an improvement double again after 2000 yrs as after 1000? I guess not, but can someone confirm this?
M60 is right, culture only doubles once.

Settler to silks I guess?
I'm assuming you mean spices? We already have the silk. I think the next settler should go to the spice towards the west. It will probably need an escort. Also, try and place it next to the freshwater so we can get our food bonus. The settler currently in transit should settle 1 square S of where it is. This will give us the game, the dye, and our 4 turn factory...

Good luck JJ :)

Preturn - 2150:

Look around.
Check our cities.
We are running 20% lux without hooking up the silk...
1 - 2110 BC:
Nothing.
2 - 2070 BC:
Entremont: Settler-Warrior.
Micromanage.
Settler cant go all the way without escort. Moving towards Alesia for now.
Camulodunum founded in the south, by game and dyes.

3 - 2030 BC:
Alesia: Worker-Warrior.

4 - 1990 BC:
Entremont: Warrior-Settler

5 - 1950 BC:
Lugundum: Warrior-Granary.
Mongols and Japanese are building the Oracle.

6 - 1910 BC:
Nothing.

7 - 1870 BC:
Camulodunum : Warrior-Temple.
Alesia: Warrior-Temple.

8 - 1830 BC:
Entremont: Settler-Archer.
Adjust lux down to 10.

9 - 1790 BC:
Settler 1 in place now by spices.
Moving settler 2 towards goat-mountain.

10 - 1750 BC:
Whip temple in Alesia 1pop for 18 shields.
Turn up lux to 20. When Silks online next turn this can be turned down again hopefully.
--------------------------------------------
NB: I left the Settler by the spices unmoved as I am not sure if the city will be on fresh-water at this spot.
Will it? It has coast adjacent. JJ

And the save:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC1750_01.SAV

I am not sure about the builds.
There is a granary (Lugundum) and a temple (Camulodunum) set up, that can be switched as I havent really thought this through.

Its looking good JJ. Haven't looked at the save yet, but from the turnlog everything seems in order.

btw, there's a discussion going on the maintenance thread about differential naval movement which may affect our game, so i'm asked AlanH to keep us updated on when its safe to play again :)

OK a couple of things.

Entremont should switch to settler. We don't need archers in my opinion. Had Entermont been micromanaged on growth, we would have had the settler on growth to 6. Entermont is a four turn pump, but it requires constant attention since it is not fully worked. The governor makes odd choices. At the current setting we have lost a turn or two of growth. Suggest the irrigated game citizen should be moved to BG for this turn, and the next citizen be placed on whatever tile is necessary for settler completion. We will be back to size 3.5 but we can work around this from then on - expansion is priority.

The spices settler is perfect where he is. He should settle.
The goat settler should move one square W, one square SW, then settle.

Lugdunum should be producing temple.
Alesia needs optimising.

Who wants to take this next? el_fil or barbslinger are still to play...

Aye. Sorry about the micromanaging of Entremont.
I was actually trying to figure that out when I got the game, but I couldnt get the shield/food counts to match up, so I was always left with surplus/shortage for optimalization. I am sure that this is my cross-eyeing though.
jj

It's OK, don't worry, I often forget to manage settler pumps every turn. Its just that each turn that any of us forget could have been an extra turn that we had a city down, and an extra bit of culture...

At the moment, the problem is that when Entremont grows to size 5, the governor places the extra citizen on the silk forest, since it is the most productive. However, this reduces us to 4fpt. Therefore once we get to size 5 we have to switch the forest citizen to the unworked BG. Reduces the number of shields, but this is OK, since...

Turn 1 - city + irrigated game + mined BG + mined BG + unworked BG = 6 shields.
Turn 2 - 6 shields + extra 2 from governor placing citizen on forest = 8 shields.
Turn 3 - city + irrigated game + mined BG + mined BG + unworked BG + unworked BG = 7 shields.
Turn 4 - 7 shields + extra 2 from governor placing citizen on forest = 9 shields.

6+8+7+9 = 30

As I said, don't worry, I'm bound to screw it up at some point, but as long as we can all try to make it work we can retain our lead over the other teams :thumbsup:

Thanks for the explanation there, chunky.
I have read the settler pump issue before, but need more practice on this.
JJ

Time for a roster-

el filet-up
barbslinger- on deck
M60- below deck
chunkymonkey- waiting and dreaming of settler factories in his sleep
TimBentley- waiting
tomasjj- just finished

i got it, some games are in the pipe, may take a while

I'll be gone until Sunday.

i got it, some games are in the pipe, may take a while

Maybe barbslinger and you should flip, if he's available to take it. A slow pace is ok, but we don't want the game to hang for too long.

Alrighty, I'll take it and play tonight. Sorry about the lack of comments. I'll add a full barrage when I post tomorrow.

I forgot the save at home. Will post it tonight.

Barbslinger –1750bc

Preturn - Found Richborough toget the spices. Set to temple. Change Capital to settler and MM to get the settler in 2. Lug goes to a temple. Move other settler towards western hill near river to get the goats.

IT- Alesia – Temple > Rax for some military down the road. I was thinking of going for a placeholder for a culture wonder but the key will be in lots of cities and that will take some military action.

1-1725BC Japan has writing now. No real trading 2-fers yet, because Toku won’t give up writing for even 161g and 8gpt. Lower lux due to silks being online and raise science to 90% to get writing in 9. Whip the temple in Camu for 19s.

IT – Camu-Temple> Worker

(2) 1700 – Sic worker on capital forest to speed up a settler build next time around.

IT – Capital – Settler > Settler. Toku wants 26g and since I have not see him on our continent I decline and we get War happiness.

(3) 1675 – Found Verulamium on Goat Hill. MM and get some workers working.

IT – Nada.

(4) 1650 – Nothing much to do.

IT – Alesia expands.

(5) 1625 – Mogols have writing for sale at 80g. 4 turns to go. At 18g science per turn we will spend I try to get it from Temu for 71g and save the 4 turns. We get it and trade writing to Mao for Myst and 8g. Go for Philo to try and get free tech. It will be in around 15-22 turns.

IT – Capital – Settler>Settler. Vikings complete Colossus.

(6) 1600 – Moving out the settler to settle on the river. Crossing Chinese territory to explore to the north. Decide to get a quick archer out of capital while pop builds. I mis-calculated the forest chop and growth.

IT – Camu – Worker> Curraugh for contacts.

(7) 1575 – Found Gergovia. We really need more workers to hook up our towns. Crossing the Chinese land finds 2 other tiles and then coast. Darn, have to turn it around. Japs still won’t talk. Philo now in 11.

IT – Lugdunum – Temple>Worker.

(8) 1550 – Augustodurum founded on N coast.

IT – Entremont – Archer>Settler

(9) 1525 – Archer to Gergovia to watch for barbs.

IT – Nada

(10) 1500 – Nothing really to do and it is late. You can rush the temple in Veru.

We have a nice lead in culture already. I think that we need to start building some military soon to knock China out prior to them getting Chivalry. Toku still won’t talk. Philo in 7 and perhaps we can get the bonus tech. Entremont should straighten out soon too. More development of the other cities should put us in good position. We are leading in pop and slightly behind in land.

More city sites that we can get temples going in. We really need a worker pump too.

Anyone have thoughts about what free tech we should go for once the save is posted?

Out of the possibles: HBR, Poly, CoL, Lit, Maps and Maths...

HBR, CoL, Poly and Maps are pretty pointless right now IMO. That leaves Lit and Maths I would go for Lit so we can start getting more culture in our non military towns. AI civs tend to research Maths anyway so we'll have it in no time. Should we be attempting to build the G Library? I'm personally not bothered whether we build it or capture it, but we should have it...

Oh and good going barbslinger, sounds like everything went well. Any chance of seeing the save?

I also think Lit would be the way to go here. I do think we can build the GLib.

Here is the save. I'll post it to the maintenance thread too.

edit: I tried to post it but the is an error on the page.

Looks good. Noticed that we could reduce lux to 10% and up research to 90%, gets us Phil one turn sooner.

You're up el_filet...

i got it...

I uploaded the 1500BC save to the server so that our score graph would be more accurate...

I'm back.

1500 BC (0):
i'm surprised to see roaded forests, usually chop them first
notice the goats are just a bonus ressource, like the sheep near hangchow :(
closest horses are next to mongol frontier
lack of military, especially close to japanes cities. first rax finishes next turn.
up science to avoid neg. income


IBT:
alesia: rax->spear

1475 BC (1):
downl lux, up science

IBT:
get booted by chinese
lugdunum: worker->granary (now i know what was meant by no river: no food bonus or crossing penalty)
chinese build pyramids

IBT:
booted again
entremont: settler->warrior

1425 BC (3):
japanese want lugdunum for peace

IBT:
camulodunum: curragh->granary

1400 BC (4):
up lux, down science

IBT:
entremont: warrior->rax (rather sneak them in sooner then later)
alesia: spear->settler
richborough: temple->worker
veralumaium: temple->worker

1375 BC (5):
mongols&chinese got math
up science to get philo in 2 (with neg. income ;))

IBT:
boot from mao. that map knowledge wasn't worth making him annoyed, sorry

IBT:
philo in
sell it to mongols for math&142g
to mao for HBR&33g
construction->CoL
paris completes pyramids
chinese switch to oracle

1325 BC (7):
curraghs are bad for exploring, even in sea they can't make 2 moves
chinese got dyes too (unconnected as ours)
run max science with 206g in the bin (18 turns)

IBT:
boot from polite mao :)

IBT:
kicked out by mao
cultural exp pops barb hut :(
gregovia: tample->worker
londen finishes oracle

1275 BC (9):
switch worker in vero to warrior (we have a chance behind river)

IBT:
kicked again
japanese sign in mongols against us :eek:
entremont: rax->settler
alesia: settler->spear
richborough: worker->rax
veralunium: warrior->worker
mongols&chinese start MoM

1250 BC (10):
down lux, up science (MP)
2 settlers ready (unmoved, one intended to found in place)


notes:
focused most workers on road net and factroy setup. suggest next player connects lux.
what about zeus?

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC1250_01.SAV

Well the Mongols are a different problem. The Japanese couldn't get at us but the Mongols, I believe, can. We will have to get a military together. How far away are they?
The warrior that is bothering Mao did not know it was only 2 tiles left up there when he went to explore it so without having the map knowledge you don't know if it is worth it or not. It could have been a conduit to northern territories.
Do we know everyone yet?
Also with this being a 100K game I'm thinking libraries should be a build soon. Keep pumping settlers and fit in every where we can. I recall a SirPleb game where he ICS'ed his core with temples,libraries and then he would jump his capital to a newly conquered core and repeat the ICS in the new core and build temple/lib there. He continued that for the whole game jumping his capital 4-5 times.

The save at 1000 BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC1000_01.SAV)

Preturn- Found Agedincum. Spear in 10.

IBT- Get booted out of Chinese lands.

Turn 1 (1225BC) Lux to 20%. Worker actions.

IBT- Barb warrior dies at Verulamium.

Turn 2 (1200BC) Worker actions.

IBT- Entremont settler>settler

Turn 3 (1175BC) Science to zero.

IBT- nothing

Turn 4 (1150BC) worker actions

IBT- still nothing.

Turn 5 (1125BC) Eboracum founded. Japan will talk now. Make peace with them by handing over construction. We get poly, lit, and 126 gold. Trade poly to Mao for MM and 1 gold. Mongols still won’t talk.

IBT- Japan building MoM.

Turn 6 (1100BC) worker actions. Rush temple in Augustodurum.

IBT- nothing

Turn 7 (1075BC) worker stuff. Mongols still won’t talk.

IBT- Mongols finish MoM. China starts ToA.

Turn 8 (1050BC) Spices connected, lux to zero. Burdigala founded.

IBT- Mongols showing up near Agedincum with 4 archers and a warrior. We have a defending archer.

Turn 9 (1025BC) Time to talk to Temujin. He’ll give us peace if he can give us 5 gold as well. Sure, we’ll take your gold. ;)

IBT- Japan is building Glib. Mongols working on it too.

Turn 10 (1000BC) worker actions and have 2 settlers ready to plant. One 3SW of Gergovia and one NE of Richborough needs to go one more tile NE. Science down to 10%. Score 389.

Post turn- CoL in 1. We can trade for CoL from China and pick up a worker if we want to give them construction. Not much of a deal, but I thought I’d mention it.

Oops. Double post.

Do we have lit yet? We need to get cracking on some libs too. As soon as our core has libs/temples we should get busy conquering someone to increase our culture there and get shots at a GL.

Time to talk to Temujin
good timing!

@barbslinger
my comment was directed at myself not at you. went on exploring anyway, should have talked louder to myself :D
Do we have lit yet?
traded in peace talks with japan

I've got it. Seems like things are going well. Has everyone looked at our culture graph compared to the other teams recently? :thumbsup:

Plan to start mass library production soon. Agree with barbslinger in that we need to conquer someone - China anyone? They have horses so we'll need to hook up our iron and mass upgrade if we have a chance. Perhaps we could even convince the Mongols to get in on the act? Beijing is building ToA so perhaps we can pick this up too.

So what does everyone say about research? Do we have a chance at keeping up in the middle ages? I suppose all we really need in the short term is up to Education and possibly saltpetre location. We could probably get most of this through pointy stick.

So how about we stick on max research until libs are built, then min research whilst mass produce warriors, upgrade to GS, go pound on China, and hopefully get a GA just at the point we can build cathedrals. Would be perfect...

I'll wait for response then i'll play in 24 hours or so... :)

conquering ToA would be great, given we fill the empty lands with cities until then. starting libs sounds good, but i think we'll need some military for our hopefully many new cities. it's easier to settle unclaimed land, we should do that if we still can. in case we can't settle some new towns, ToA won't help that much and there's still the chance mao won't get it. we will have to conquer, but i think we should get as much land as we can before we go to war. try to make a defendable front line, but i don't think we can avoid a large frontier.

I like Chunky's thinkin'

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC0750_01.SAV

0 - 1000BC - MM between Entermont and Gergovia to optimise. MM Camulodunum.

IBT - Learn CoL. Stick research of Currency on max. Entremont settler -> library (emphasise prod.)

1 - 975BC - Settle Cataractonium SW of Gergovia -> temple. MMing and worker actions.

IBT - Augustodurum builds worker -> granary.

2 - 950BC - MM Camulodonum. Settle Lapurdum on peninsula NE of Richborough -> temple.

IBT - Lugdunum builds galley -> worker. Camulodunum builds settler -> library.

3 - 925BC - Some microing, worker moving.

IBT - Japanese building G Wall.

4 - 900BC - More optimising.

IBT - Lugdunum worker -> library. Washington builds the Great Library. :(

5 - 875BC - Micro, worker actions...

IBT - Agedincum builds temple -> worker. Japanese swtch to Great Wall. Japanese establish an embassy. Orleans builds Statue of Zeus :( . Mongols are building Great Lighthouse.

6 - 850BC - Settle Ratae Coritanorum -> temple.


7 - 825BC - usual boring stuff...

IBT - Burdigala builds temple - granary.

8 - 800BC - Found Tolosa SW of Verulamium -> temple.

IBT - Richborough builds granary - worker. Verulamium builds granary - worker. Gergovia builds granary - settler.

9 - 775BC - Meet Carthage to west of mongols. They are down Construction.

IBT - Entermont builds library -> warrior (at 10spt) minimised food for a couple of turns.

10 - 750BC - Up lux to 10%, just for this turn. Dye is hooked up next turn.

Firaxis: 480
Culture: 867 (+27)

Things to note:
Playing cat and mouse with chinese settler up at richborough - fun. Currency in 5. Need more culture, cities etc... - we are still beating all teams in culture, however after the next 60 turns, Team Bede is 4000 culture ahead of us i.e 66cpt. We are 27cpt, and some of our doubling bonuses will come into effect soon, but we need more temples and libraries, and more cities to put them in, either settled or captured :devil:.

Another thing, we have a couple of spearmen. Not quite sure why... i personally never build defensive military units, i see them as a waste of time, especially when we could have had two warriors instead which could have had been upgraded to GS later. Also from now on, i think its unnecessary to have cities without rax building military, either they should be granary/worker/settler cities, or they should be outlying cities and concentrating on temple/library etc...

Oh yeah, and how come differential naval movement is engaged but our ships' movement remains regular??? Is this right? It's really frustrating.

You're up Tim! Good luck! :)

EDIT : I've just PM'ed Alan about the rubbish ship movement so hopefully we'll get a reply soon.

Got it. I should play tomorrow.

Another thing, we have a couple of spearmen. Not quite sure why... i personally never build defensive military units, i see them as a waste of time, especially when we could have had two warriors instead which could have had been upgraded to GS later.

I built at least one of them, and see them in a different light. Defensive units have their uses. We didn't have a rax in the town they were built, and I'm not in favor of spending a lot on reg units when maint costs become an issue. And in this case with high barb activity, I see a spear having a better chance of survival than two warriors.

I built at least one of them, and see them in a different light. Defensive units have their uses. We didn't have a rax in the town they were built, and I'm not in favor of spending a lot on reg units when maint costs become an issue. And in this case with high barb activity, I see a spear having a better chance of survival than two warriors.
Oh ok, good points, I wasn't getting at you at all, i just have a different style :)

Tim, can you delete the save you just downloaded and wait until Alan fixes it? He needs to alter ship movement.

Yes I can. I probably should have realized that earlier, but no matter.

Apparently the save has been fixed, so go ahead. If it's still dodgy i suggest you stop.

OK, regot it.

Our bar graph looks really nice though. Keep up the expansion and war is in the mix soon for territory expansion

Just looked at the QSC results. Though we are leading in city count, which is nice, we are way back in contacts/diplomacy. We need to find those other civs. Do we have any curraughs out hunting?

We do have a curragh and galley out searching, but I noticed in my turnset they've been travelling at 1 tile per turn due to a bug in the biq file, so i asked AlanH to fix it, which he has. We should know more civs in the next few turns. I'm impressed with our QSC results too well done guys.

750(0)-MM Camulodunum for growth, MM Agedincum for gold, MM Tolosa for shields

IBT-Entremont warrior->warrior
Alesia library->warrior
Agedincum worker->worker

730(1)-whip temple in Cataractonium
turn off lux due to hooked up dye

IBT-Entremont warrior->worker
Cataractonium temple->worker

710(2)-see a purple border (Iroquois?)

IBT-Entremont worker->warrior
Alesia warrior->worker

690(3)-Meet Iroquois, see other edge of Carthage
They are broke and lack construction
raise lux to 10%

IBT-Japan, India sign peace
Entremont warrior->warrior
Alesia worker->warrior
Richborough worker->library
Verulamium worker->library
Iroquois start ToA

670(4)-zzz

IBT-learn currency, start on mono at minimum (for a second I was thinking of going for republic)
Entremont warrior->warrior
Camulodunum library->market
Gergovia settler->library

650(5)-whip temple in Eboracum (to avoid starvation or 50% lux)
It seems possible we're on the same landmass as Japan
Japan will pay all its gold for currency; I'll wait

IBT-Entremont warrior->market
Alesia warrior->settler
Agedincum worker->library
Eboracum temple->library

630(6)-zzz

IBT-Entremont warrior->warrior
Augustodurum granary->worker

610(7)-Galley sees another border

IBT-Carthage kicks out exploring warrior, curragh
Entremont warrior->warrior
Alesia warrior->market
Trondheim builds ToA

590(8)-Meet India; they have 88g, lack currency
Japan is in anarchy due to their recently discovered monarchy

IBT-China kicks our warrior out
Entremont warrior->warrior
Augustodurum worker->library
Japan starts Great Wall, Hanging Gardens
Carthage, China, India start Great Wall
Delhi builds Great Wall

570(9)-zzz

IBT-Entremont warrior->warrior
Lugdunum library->rax
Japan starts Hanging Gardens

550(10)-zzz

Notes: I think we're ready to start roading the iron
The settler should settle next to the lake

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC0550_01.SAV).

Right on! More contacts! Should we get prebuilds rolling for cathedrals, JS Bach and Sistines? We look to be doing fairly well. If we time our GA we should be able to pull in both wonders and grab some more land.

wonders don't help that much for 100k, but we could use bach for new cities. prebuilds for cath are a good idea, but i'd build libs first. with 3 lux we get more help from the libs, they cost less maintenance too.

Looking good. I believe JJ has it now.

I am up in another game too, and have lots of RL issues.
A switch would be nice.
-jj

OK JJ let us know when you feel up to it and we''ll insert you back in.

So who's gonna take it, barbslinger or el_filet? Let's keep it rolling, we're doing well.

finished my other games this weekend, but couldn't get to this one. i'm not sure i can play tonight, will post in case i play.

took a quick look yesterday, we still have some spots to settle, but we'll need to go to war soon. a couple of warriors are around, i'll add some more. filling some of the better spots before preparing attack to chinese (or do we attack mongols/japanese?). they didn't got ToA, but still are the best target imo.

Yeah we need to get a move on with a bit of :hammer:

But there's no need to rush and do this half-heartedly, we should create a decent stack of GS before we go and hit China. And whilst we're capturing we should be settling in the gaps, and building/whipping temples and libraries in the newly captured cities as priorities.

From now on we should never be at a stage where all our cities have both a temple and library. If they all do, then we should be settling/capturing more cities.

We might want to get the Mongols in on China to weaken them a little, since they're IMO the next logical target.... :)

I can take it tonight if El Filet can not.
Looks like hooking up the iron and getting some GS to set up for war and GA. Keeping the culture building and hopefully get more contacts would be great also.

playing now

550 BC (0):
do some MM
switch camulodunum&lugdunum to settler (we need to build some, more then money. another rax can wait with entremont building warrior every turn)
37g for embassy in karakorum: size 2; settler next turn :); dyes, iron & horses; 4 spears; MoM

IBT:
boot from hannibal
entremont: warrior->warrior
ratae: temple->lib

530 BC (1):
hire scientist, science to 0
found Lindum->temple

IBT:
entremont: warrior->warrior
FP message
alesia: settler->market
cataractonium: worker->lib
lapardum: temple->lib

510 BC (2):
india& japan got monarchy (japan last turn too)

IBT:
entremont: warrior->warrior

IBT:
kicked out by hannibal
entremont: warrior->warrior

IBT:
hannibals boot again
entremont: warrior->warrior
lugdunum: settler->settler
gregovia: lib->settler
indians start HG

450 BC (5):
found Nemausus->temple

IBT:
entremont: warrior->warrior
niagara falls completes GW

IBT:
boot from mao
entremont: warrior->warrior
camulodurum: market->settler

410 BC (7):
move scientist to corrupt city

IBT:
boot from iros
pay japs 50g (avoid dogpile, not worth the trouble)
entremont: warrior->settler
gragovia: settler->market

390 BC (8):
found Curovernum->temple (will soon put more pressure on japanese cities)

IBT:
chinese settler pair moves toward richborough

370 BC (9):
whip lib

IBT:
camulodunum: settler->settler
augustodurum: lib->market
tolosa: temple->lib


notes:
suggest FP in ratae, enables us to move palace later
sent curragh back, hoping to find new civ. how did you knew it's a bay?
we have a stack of 11 vet warriors in alesia to upgrade, but iron isn't connected yet
started some mines on hills, takes forever but we'll need them
one settler ready to found in place (EDIT: the left one), one on way build fishing village
we still need market in entremont and rax somewhere

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC0350_01.SAV

:cry: i'm the one who lost our scoring lead :cry:

well, barbslinger will correct that ;) (since he can play, unless tomasjj is ready now)

:cry: i'm the one who lost our scoring lead :cry:
don't worry about that we're still matching or improving on our culture gradient compared to the other teams at this moment so thats all that matters. everything's looking good. haven't looked at the save but i think we're ready to go to war. lets upgrade!!!

barbslinger - itchy trigger fingers
JJ - hovering
M60
monkey
Tim
el fil - can rest for a while

:cry: i'm the one who lost our scoring lead :cry:

well, barbslinger will correct that ;) (since he can play, unless tomasjj is ready now)If tomasjj is ready I would rather wait. I am up in my AWE with about 60 cities to look at and that will take 1 or 2 nights.

On FP I really like Ratae due to liking the idea of jumping the palace somewhere else later. By later I mean after we have gained control of our continent and maybe after that. Jumping it around after that will dramatically speed up builds. I would wait to jump with a leader to the other continent after forming a well defended core over there. I saw no mention of the cash we have for Gallic upgrades but at single scientist I assume we have lots. I favor going after China now before they get to thier UU. The Rider is 4.3.2 while the Keshik is 4.2.2(ignore terrain). I do want to get Mongols involved in the war and then take them out right after. Hopefully we can pay tech and/or cash for the alliance so we get a minimal rep hit. I would really like to wipe both of them out during GA production of gallics with some markets completing too.

iirc we have >600g. i tried to pay the mongols for a MA against the chinese, they refused even with us paying all we had back then. i guess that will change once we declared war.

i'm surprised about corruption. it's not that bad. i even thought about building some courts to make our outer cities productive.

we need more rax. i built markets in most core cities and changed them to settler to avoid wasting food for 8-6 cycle. suggest to poprush lib in richborough soon and build rax. spit out more warriors from entremont & alesia before iron is connected, we'll be on min. science for a while.

Hey.
I can play in two days time. If no one else wants it, that is.
jj

I am finally through the AWE. I can play tomorrow and post Friday morning.

I thought I had brought the word doc with me to work but my thumbdrive only had the sav file. I'll update the text when I get home tonight.

Summary of turns was building more buildings through whipping and builds, completed iron road and upgraded about 16 gallics. Sent 8 gallics towards Chengdu, 4 GS towards the 2 western China cities and after Japan declared on turn 9 sent 2 towards the sword that burned a just planted ice town in the south. There are 2 other GS patrolling near the core where a Jap ship was moored. We are a monarchy and I had just sold that to China to get them into anarchy so the war would be smoother. Met America, England, Joanie and Ragnar.
My suggestion was to declare before IT and get Mongols on the Chinese for Currency or gpt and Iro's on Japan to divert them. We could also wait on Japan to give peace to concentrate on China / Mongols.

Ok. I got it.
Turns will be tonight.

So the plan is:
War with China. Ally with the mongols against them.
If possible get Iro to war against japan.

Keep expanding and building culture builds...

More?
Something I need to remember?

jj

I looked at our graph and it seems that other teams prosecuted their war before us due to the scores ramping with new citizens. I would keep all towns seized due to our culture and rush a temple. I'm thinking taking Chengdu and then on to Beijing. We have 2 settlers sitting close to the front that we can settle in between other China towns. Getting the Iros involved against Japan is a 2 edged sword. It would take the heat off but the downside is cost and having to split our attack objectives. If you can get rid of the Jap town on the ice corner without having to get the Iro's in I would go for that.
Pump GS and markets during the GS and if possible prebuild cathedrals near the end of the war.
I was really hoping the Japs would stay away so we could concentrate on our continent. Then it is off to Japan.

Have a look at our culture! Now we need more towns!

Erm... aren't we obliged to stay in Despotism until we get to Communism dur to the variant?

Yes we are. I believe a replay is in order.

Damn, I was thinking that was the variant, but could not remember last night. I saved right before I revolted. I'll have to replay from there. It was around turn 7. I can have it back at about 9pm tonight.

okei.... i will hang out.

Actually I should have it up sooner than 9pm pst. I get home around 6:30 so probably around 8pm. Sorry guys. I'll replay to match the log except for the 2 turn anarchy.

Barbslinger –350bc


Preturn – Swap August to rax for more military coming up. Also rush the lib in Verul to get on a rax. Swap Camul to a worker pump, 2-2. Our iron does not complete for 8. I’ll get another worker on it. Those furs and incense China and Mongols have look like they should be ours. Richborough can rush a lib next turn so I turn up the food, it should build a rax for the upcoming war. Lindum can rush a temple next turn. I think on war planning I’ll bring the Mongols in and head straight to Beijing to get his core first. Gergovia goes shield heavy to get the market in 9 instead of, I think, 15.

IT – Chinese settler pair turn around.
Ent – Settler>Spear, Lug-Settler>Rax, Verul-Lib>Rax, Japanese complete HG in Kyoto.

(1) 330BC – Not much but moving workers around. Found one mining a plains and stopped that to prepare both iron and roads to the front. Rushed Lindum temple and Richborough lib.

IT – Alesia- Market>Spear, Camul – Wkr>Wkr, Rich-Lib>Rax, Lindum-Temple>Rax.

(2) 310BC – Moving workers.

IT – China demands currency and backs down. Japan moves 2 galleys towards our eastern holdings. Carthage got currency.

(3) 290BC – Iron in 3 now. Find the Americans up the northern coast. Abe is up Monarchy. Get 45g from Mao for currency. Not worth much anymore. We have over 1000g.

IT – Entremont-spear>Spear, Camul-Wkr>Wkr.

(4) 270BC – Whip Nemausus temple. Moving workers. Spot another border.

IT – Alesia-Spear>Spear, Nemausus-temple>lib.

(5) 250BC – We meet Elizabeth and trade construction and currency for monarchy. Move workers and revolt for a 2 turn anarchy. Adjust cities for anarchy. I also saved right before I revolted because I can’t remember if we are allowed to be monarchs. Is this the game where we can only go to feudal? Cancel that. This is where the replay begins.

IT – Iron completes. Elizabeth asks us to leave. Camul-Wkr>Wkr, Burdigala-Granary> Lib. Japanese settle Ise on ice tip.

(6) 230BC - Upgrade 14 Gallics to go play with leaving 348 in the bank.

IT – Ent-Spear>Spear, August-Rax>Gallic

(7) 210BC –Move the gallics forward to ‘meet’ Mao. Isca founded near clams on ice. Hmmm.

IT – Alesia-Spear>GS, Lug-Rax>GS, Camu-Wkr>Wkr. Veru-Rax>Market.
Japanese :edit, does not: send a sword out from Ice town.

(8) 190BC – Gallics move up to China border.

IT – Ent-Spear>Spear,Coruv-Temple>Lib.

(9) 170BC –We meet Joanie and Ragnar. Whip a lib in Cataract. Swap August to settler.

IT – Richborough-Rax>GS, Gergovia-Mkt>Rax, Cataract-Lib>Rax.

(10) 150BC – Shuffle troops for war to be declared next turn. Sell Monarchy to China for 52g so he will be in Anarchy when we attack.

We have 8 GS and a sword for China’s Chengdu. 4 GS for Hangchow. He will be in Anarchy so now is the time. It is war time!

Cool, good setup. :thumbsup: Ready to take us into China JJ?

Remember to declare before we have any units inside the borders, and we can probably buy the Mongols into the war once we've declared, with either Currency or Monarchy.

And keep the cities and culture coming!

Remember to take the updated save from the submission page, the one in barbslingers post is the old one i think...

I am ready... :)
And got it.
JJ

What about the FP?
Ratae was mentioned earlier.
What's the plan? Building it there, but after we get the library in?
-jj

Preturn 150BC:

Looking good. Ready for China.
I see that we have peace with Japan, so no need to go that way allying with Iro now.
Thats nice. One front war.
Upgrade one vet warrior in Lugdunum.

Declare on China.
We sign alliance with Mongols for Currency. We also get 25g.
Move northern GS-gang across, Chengdu targeted.

IT:
China moves two warriors across near our GS stack at Lindum.
Viking now have Feudalism. They laugh when I try to tempt them with Monarchy and some loot.

1 - 130BC:
Moving towards the targets.
Western front need a couple of more GS imo.

IT:
China attacks Lindum with archer and warrior. Our GS and warrior stands firm.
We enter our GA.
Japs show us a sword near Ise.

2 - 110BC:
Attack on Chengdu.
We beat the two spears there without loss.
7 Redhaired GS cross the Yangtse, towards Beijing.
2 stay back in Chengdu to console the civilians there.
Decide to take Macao before Hangchow as I dont want any Chinamen to come towards our wear cities in

the west.
On second thoughts, that would mean attacking across the river.
I dont want that, so it is Hangchow. Splitting their cities up is nice.
Besides mongols should take care of some business down there too. 4 GS ready at the gates now.
No library-whipping to be had in our cities, but I whip temple in Glanum. One turn late.
Only 6 turns to be gained on mono by turning it up. We make 111gpt now, so thats a nice bonus.

IT:
Japs and Carthage also have Feudalism now.


3 - 90BC:
Attack on Hangchow.
We take it losing nothing. They had two spears there.
Build set to temples.
Settlers moving in to fill the holes.
China seems weak. I havent seen a horsie yet, and we are ready to attack Beijing next turn.
No sight of the mongol hordes either.

IT:
No more resistance.
Carthage building Sun Tzu.

4 - 70 BC:
Attack Canton.
We take it without losses. 2 spears there too.
We get a worker on top.
Attack Beijing.
We take it. Lose one GS. Take out 3 spears and a horse. Get 3 workers.
Their Capital moved to Shanghai.
China will talk now, but I see no reason to stop now, even if we can get a couple of cities for peace. That will hurt our rep if we walk out on the alliance with the mongols right?

IT:
Nothing to report.

5 - 50 BC:
Segusio founded.
Chaingang working on roads to bring all the bounty back to the Celtic core...
Strategy meeting in celt war council.
Since mongols havent done anything in the south we make a rally point in the mountains near Macao to nick it swiftly. That mountain range is slow to cross...
Forces near Beijing need healing for a turn or two. Then we march on Shanghai.
Finally we see a mongol horse near Macao. We have a GS there lurking and two more coming.
Hopefully we can nick it when the mongols have softened their D.
Start a harbor. Some trading can be done, and I want to upgrade our curragh to settle the wood-island towards the japs.

IT:
Many more building Sun Tzu.
Richborough roit.. Sorry. Moved a GS out.

6 - 30 BC:
Moving troops. Healing.
Whip a temple and a lib.
Switch some builds to Markets. Also turn on research for one turn as I somehow managed to lose our wise scientist last turn. Just to make sure we stay on the path for mono. We can afford it as we have 1100 gold.
Marketplace build in Ratae can be switched to FP, the city now has a lib.

IT:
zzzz

7 - 10 BC:
Attack on Tsingtao.
We take out two spears, losing one GS, redlining two more.
A bit of bad luck, but no complaints as we have been in love with the RNG so far.
Only an archer left there now, and more troops coming in.
Leaderfishing attempt, no success.
We can now trade with Carthage.

IT:
Jesus is born.
Nothing besides that one.

8 - 10 AD:
We take Tsingtao - no losses.
Attack on Macao.
We take it, two spears one archer - lose one GS.
In total I think we have 4 elites now. In the next 10 turns maybe a leader or two will rise.
Would be nice for our FP.
Found Rutupiae.
We got ****loads of cash now, so I boost research on Mono to 80%, lux on 10. No one has it, and we can have it in 8 now.
Cathedrals would be nice for our culture.
Rush a lib.

IT:
India wants our galley to leave. We leave.

9 - 30 AD:
We meet the Babs.
They got engineering, and 20-ish towns.
We got 6 GS outside the new China capital, Shanghai. It has grown to 7, which is beat.
Still, I want to try a couple of GS's to see how it goes. Max so far for defense has been 3 SM 1Arc.
We take Shanghai. Lose nothing. They had 4 spears and a cat. One promotion.
I reckon we can turn westwards the next turn, after sacking Nanking on the tip, towards Xinjian, the new capital.Encore.
I move troops out of Beijing, westwards. Flipchance is low, if it flips we take it back the next turn.

IT:
The ungreatful people of Shanghai riot against their new, superior leaders.
How rude!

10 - 50 AD:
Attack on Nanking.
We encounter a super-spear after talking out one. Superman and an archer remains.
We should be able to nick it next turn.
There are some troops marching on towards Xinjian.
Only the babs have engineering, I try to get a price, but we arent even close with 1000g + 110gpt.
Hopefully we can trade Mono when it gets in(6 turns).
Whip two libs.
I have set many markets up as prebuilds for cath, or just markets.
Ratae can be switched to FP.

-----
good luck to the next player!

JJ

And a little pic from the early days of our attack:

And the save.....

I believe it's back to me. So got it and will play tonight. Plan to finish off the Chinese on the mainland and hopefully we can pick up some offshore towns in a treaty.

Well done JJ I didn't think we'd be able to execute Mao that quickly!!

One thing I did notice is we don't really have a lot of settlers out filling in gaps at the perimetre. Our outlying cities are beginning to get more and more useless so we may as well just ICS them, mass irrigate and poprush everything we need. And once we get Monotheism perhaps we can switch some of our city builds to caths.

Good luck M60. Its your call as to whether we sign treaty with Mao before the alliance is up. We should definitely be looking to extinguish the Mongols before they get their Keshiks though (hopefully start war before they get Feudalism, although this may be tricky).

Dont forget that barbslinger set us up nicely here. :goodjob:
The mongols dont have feud yet.
Agree that we need more settlers to fill the gaps.
In 5 turns or so we can whip temples in the newly take china towns.... which leads me to one question: are we allowed to join slaved in those cities, or others, and whip culture?
Sounds a bit dodgy, but is it within the rules? :confused:
jj

From the GOTM rules:
Pop-rushing
In despotism and communism it is possible to use cities purely for unit rush building. Workers can be added to such a city and then the city can then use them to rush build units. This is disallowed, so do not create these kind of cities. Pop rushing one or two regular citizens to finish a building or to build a unit is within the rules and the spirit of the game. What is against the rules is joining workers to cities for the purpose of pop rushing.

There's been some discussion on this in the maintenance thread.

Cheers.
Yeah, I saw the notes in the maintenance thread.
Good to know that we still are within the rules, as I didnt join the chaingangs and whip. I just whipped them to build a road through the mountains :p

The save at 250AD (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD0250_01.SAV)

Pre-turn: It’s a 10-turn alliance with Mongols against China, so plan is to capture what we can from China on the mainland, then see about a war against Mongolia.

IBT- Chinese archer kills a GS. Not the way I wanted to start my set. A couple Sun builds announced. Start on a couple settler builds.

Turn 1 (70AD) E.GS kills vet spear, Nanking falls. GS kills V.archer (2/4).
Lose E.GS and VGS to reg spears at Xinjian. Kill one spear with GS#3. One spear still defending. V.GS kills R.Archer.

IBT- Lose another GS to a Chinese horse by Xinjian. Chinese galley lands another horse.

Turn 2 (90AD) V.GS kills R.Spear at Xinjian. E.GS kills R.Spear. Lose V.GS to V.Horse. Got him redlined FWIW.

IBT-More Sun builds.

Turn 3 (110AD)- Lose a R.GS attacking a R.Archer. RNG really stinks this time around. :mad: V.GS kills a R.Spear at Tiensin. Rush temple in Chengdu. Drop off settler on desert isle.

IBT- nothing

Turn 4 (130AD) Kill R.Spear and V.Horse at Tiensin and capture town. :) Found Monguntiacum on desert isle. Rush temple in Beijing. Science to 60%, mono in 2.

IBT- Chinese archer dies against a V.GS at Tatung.

Turn 5 (150AD) V.GS kills R.Spear @ Tatung. E.GS (4/5) kills R.Spear and Tatung falls. :)

IBT- Mono in, Theo in 13.

Turn 6 (170AD) Move a couple GS to Tiensin in hopes of getting it before Mongols do. Switch to some cathedral builds. Land a V.GS @ Shantung.

IBT- R.Archer dies against V.GS @ Shantung.

Turn 7 (190AD) Try a couple attacks @ Tiensen. Two V.GS are redlined. We get a R.Spear. One remains. Rush temple in Canton. Offload 2 GS @ Shantung.

IBT- Quiet

Turn 8 (210AD) E&V.GS kill 2 R.Spears @ Shantung, town taken. :)

IBT- Quiet

Turn 9 (230AD) 2 V.GS kill 2 R.Spears and Tientsin falls. :) The continent is now clear.

IBT- Quiet

Turn 10 (250AD) Rush a temple in Hangchow. Send settler on auto to move 3 NE of Ullanbattar. He’ll be there in 4. Lux from 10 to 0%. Don’t need it ATM. Score 1014 and done.

Post turn. We’re trying to have it both ways, and that’s a problem. If we want the culture, we have to get through more cathedral builds. That’s what I focused on. I know we don’t want Mongols with Keshiks, but if we want the culture, and filling in more open land, then we have to allow for the appropriate builds. Really shouldn’t be a problem with Mongols as long as we bring in Carthage.

Now as far as making peace with China, here’s the deal. We can end the alliance with Mongols now, and we can get Kaifeng, Anyang and Yangchow from Mao for peace. Keep in mind we have to balance that against captured towns flipping back to China. Tientsin is the only town in rebellion. We still have monopoly on Mono and can trade for Feudalism and in all likelihood engineering in a 2-fer.

Cool, I gots it. I'll probably play tomorrow, or maybe even tonight if I'm feeling scrappy.

I'll concentrate on caths and settling more cities, but if I've got a stack of GS just sitting around... :mischief:

Great work guys! Well, quite a conundrum. Caths or Mongols. If we can hold off letting the Mongols have Mono, I think they are behind in tech, we should be able to finish most caths in core and then turn to them. Hopefully we can get China lands ICS'ed to get more culture.

You know, looking at the graphs, I would almost want to suggest continuing against China. Those towns on the northern landmass can not be that well defended and it is a sizeable mass to get temples and libs in. Check the timing on cath builds so they can get back to military production. I'm thinking horses now to upgrade to knights with our cash. We will need speed to continue the blitzkrieg. I would really like to have Mongols, Carthage and Japan wrapped up soon. Japan and Mongols would be next with the Sams and Keshecks coming. Back to full military after caths?

i think we should make sure to fill out the lands we conquer before we think about advancing further. if we can combine that with hammering china/mongols, that would be even nicer. let's get something out of china before we destroy them - if they got something useful.

We could continue war against China, but we could also get those towns through peace deal. I agree we want to start creating a stronghold on the other continent though.

I think Japan are a bit too strong for us at the moment, especially as it would require a beach landing. I would tempted to take out the civs one by one, Mongols before they get their Keshiks, Carthage and Iroquois with our knights, and Japan with cavs. Then the next continent :devil:

There certainly are opportunities to peacefully expand across some open terrain near Mao's new home. That's why I think if the flip risk is minimal, making the deal for three new towns is well worth considering.

Another tidbit is that Mongols were still a Despotism last time I checked. Since we caught China in anarchy, maybe lightning strikes twice? ;)

But we will need more troops up at the front. Temujin has a number of swords and horsies.

*Save is here* (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD0350_01.SAV)

Basic summary - We have Theology, Feudalism, and Engineering, and currently researching Education (14 turns). We have all Chinese towns (through conquest and peace deal), except Paoting (capital). There was lots of culture whipping and a few more towns settled.

Decided not to start on Mongols just yet, since there was lots of culture and settlers to be built. I've started to produce horsies for upgrade when we research or trade for chivalry, hopefully soon.

I've got Entremont building Sistine Chapel, since its at 20spt, and i didn't want to waste 10spt if it was building horsies. Sistine's would be cool to have, but not sure we'll get it, maybe it can switch to Leo's or Knights Templar. Oh, and we overtook Japan scorewise so we're in first place in our little world :)

0 - 250AD - Whip temples in Tsingtao and Macao. Get a sweet trade with Vikings - Give them Monotheism and get Engineering, 53gpt, and 146gold! Trade Mono and Eng to England for Feudalism, 6gpt, 26g. :) I increase science to give us Theology in 7 turns.

IBT - Temujin asks us to continue with the alliance. We decline. He remains polite.

1 - 260AD - Land some swords next to Anyang. Some mainland troop shuffling.

IBT - Golden Age ends. :(

2 - 270AD - Whip temple in Nanking. Whip cathedral in Camoludunum. Whip cathedral in Burdigala. Capture Anyang + 2 slaves without loss. Peace with China, and get 1 gold + all their spare towns (Yangchow, Ningpo, Kaifeng), leaving them with just their capital, Paoting.

IBT - Mongols ask us for alliance again. Declined.

3 - 280AD - Whip Library in Lindum. Lots of microing.

IBT - Nothing of note.

4 - 290AD - Whip library in Nemausus.

IBT - Zilch.

5 - 300AD - Settle Glevum NE of Ulaanbatar. Settle Axima in the desert. Whip temple in Xinjan.

IBT - Iroquois bump our galley.

6 - 310AD - Whip temple in Tatung. Whip cathedral in Curovernum.

IBT - Nothing.

7 - 320AD - Whip cathedral in Eboracum.

IBT - China and Mongols sign peace treaty.

8 - 330AD - Learn Theology, start researching Education.

IBT - France bumps our galley.

9 - 340AD - Whip temple in Tientsin. Whip Library in Beijing.

IBT -

10 - 350AD - Settle Deva on ice, south coast. Settle Lezoux N of Richborough. Settler on way to west coast, 3 NE of Tientsin.

Score 1191, Culture 6216, +197cpt.

Notes: There is a settler N of Lezoux which can settle 1 SQ NE of where he is. There is another settler N of Alesia on his way to somewhere in the northern desert, but if you want to move him somewhere else Tim feel free. :)

We're putting a nice culture squeeze on Kagoshima to the east. If we could get it to flip, that would be amazing for us in the future.

Also, I noticed there is a possible lux trade with iroquois: spice and dye for wool. Not amazing, but its something. Advantages, extra happy face, plus a friend in Iroquois for time being. Disadvantage - Two happy faces for Iroquois who are quite powerful anyway...

Got it. I should play tonight.

Also, I noticed there is a possible lux trade with iroquois: spice and dye for wool. Not amazing, but its something. Advantages, extra happy face, plus a friend in Iroquois for time being. Disadvantage - Two happy faces for Iroquois who are quite powerful anyway...

Hmmm. Wonder if we couldn't leverage that into an alliance against Mongols. Then maybe Hiawatha brings in Carthage on our side. :ar15:

I really like the progress we are making. However it seems our graph is falling behind in culture now too. We should jump when our 1000yr bonus kicks in on some of our earlier builds and with our new towns. Our score is falling behind considerably though. We need more lux bad, for more happy faces. Perhaps if affordable we can raise lux slider to get more happy faces. Each happy face is worht a point/turn. I think more conquering is ABSOLUTELY in order. I don't think we have much to worry about on flips with our amount of culture so let's get some more towns and cheap temples building.

I love the Kagoshima squeeze! If we can get that town it would be a fantastic launch point for a future Japan attack, especially if they are fighting on the far border.

For our next war, we may want to get some workers closer to the battle. A forest chopping team per captured town gets us temples quicker.

I see there are some trades to be made.
Iro, India and Japs all offer something worth considering for our lux.

The squeeze on the Jap town is a nice one.
Maybe we could place cities on the wooden cape, and also between the cow and the river next to Kagoshima. They also have some iron there that we would like.
Two settlers sent over there would speed our future invasion of Japan.

- We can also speed up the FP by a turn by switching the goats to Ratae. I suggest doing that.
- Also micromanage between Entremont, Georgiva and Cataractonium to get more shields in Entremont for sistines.

- And Deva is building a warrior... switch to temple?
- Also we can put in a town north of Beijing in the jungle if we like.

We can also start prebuilding Unis in some military towns, as long as we dont have happiness problems and need the colosseums.

About the overall war-issue, I havent got a clue whats best to get 100k. So I leave that to the more experienced ones on our team. :)

jj

I think Japan are a bit too strong for us at the moment, especially as it would require a beach landing. I would tempted to take out the civs one by one, Mongols before they get their Keshiks, Carthage and Iroquois with our knights, and Japan with cavs. Then the next continent :devil:

This is the strategy I was thinking about as well. Just create a series of cascading alliances, forcing each opponent to fight on two fronts. All we need to do is keep moving west.

I agree with a lot of the prior sentiments. Another thing I was thinking of was that since we are going to be despots for another 11/13 techs we may want to disconnect a town or two to churn out some warriors for minding the towns so the GS can be freed up. Or, probably better, dedicate a couple to spear production. Also a dedicated settler pump.
I do want to get back to warring ASAP. Pick somebody to get some land from.

How's it going Tim?
Any progress?
jj

I've got 3 turns done; I've been busy with homework recently.

350(0)-Notice lots of 0% flip chances on MapStat...the joy of being cultured
Annoying, can't get specialist farms in corrupt cities because irrigation is wasted
MM some cities, switch two builds to culture

IBT-Agenincum settler->cathedral
Cataractonium settler->colosseum

360(1)-Oops, forgot to turn research back on (was checking deals); higher research can make up
This is a very strange landmass (it appears to be all connected)

IBT-Camulodunum horse->horse
Gergovia horse->horse
Segusio temple->library

370(2)-Whip temple in Anyang
Found Noviomagus, start on temple

IBT-Burdigala settler->colosseum
Ratae Coritanorum forbidden palace->cathedral
Tolosa settler->colosseum
Anyang temple->library
Babylon starts Leo's

380(3)-Sell theology to France for 38gpt, 100g, invention
sell it to England for gems, wool, 3g
sell it to Vikings for 95g, 24gpt
sell invention (I'd rather have them cascade to Leo's) to India for 13gpt, 24g, republic (might as well get it)
we're now making 21gpt at 100% research
Belatedly whip temple in Shantung

IBT-Alesia granary->settler
Shantung temple->library (may want to switch to harbor)

390(4)-Whip temple in Monguntiacum

IBT-Gergovia horse->court
Mongunticam temple->harbor
Kyoto builds Sun Tzu's
Babylon builds Leo's
Trondheim builds Sistine :(

400(5)-Waste 122 shields switching to MDI
Whip temple in Axima

IBT-Entremont MDI->MDI
Camulodunum horse->court
Axima temple->library

410(6)-Whip temple in Glevum

IBT-Alesia settler->settler
Glevum temple->library

420(7)-Found Arausio, Durocortorum, start on temples

IBT-Entremont MDI->court
Richborough cathedral->court
India starts Knights Templar

430(8)-Whip library in Canton by means of MDI and granary
Found New Entremont, New Alesia, start on temples

IBT-Canton library->cathedral
Verulamium colosseum->court
Curovernum aqueduct->court

440(9)-Found New Lugdunum, start on temple

IBT-Learn education, start on astronomy (not sure what would be best, so feel free to change this)
Alesia settler->settler
Ratae Coritanorum cathedral->university
America starts Knight Templars

450(10)-Whip temple in Lezoux
Whip library in Shanghai by means of granary
Switch courts to universities

Notes: India will give chivalry, 12g, 81gpt for education

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD0450_01.SAV).

Looks like that set was all about building city improvements. Nicely done in that regard, but we should get to work on Mongols and start expanding the land once again.

Why was theology sold around so that we lost out on sistines?

Why was theology sold around so that we lost out on sistines?
380(3)-Sell theology to France for 38gpt, 100g, invention
sell it to England for gems, wool, 3g
sell it to Vikings for 95g, 24gpt
sell invention (I'd rather have them cascade

I'm thinking Bentley wanted the cash and after looking at the board it looked juicy. I'm hung over right now. so I don't really know that it matters. Did we have a city on prebuild? It would have been nice for the Japs or CArthage to get it though. We need the Mongols and then the Japanese in the bag. Please chime in if any team members have a different perspective on game goals. It is conquer time and we have spent 20 turns playing around. Our GS's are now nearly worthless. The Mongols should be gone and we should have 60 towns. Settler pump and military. Let's take the world and then rush culture in them.
4 counquered towns with a temple / lib a pop is worth far mor than a cathedral. HAs everyone hear read Charis / T-Hawk/ Arathorn/ SirPleb 100K Culture victories. Conquer the planet and the sort the 100+ cities culture.

OK Sistines isn't a massive deal really, I just started building it cos there wasn't really anything else worthwile to build in Entremont with a 20spt production rate.

We should start on Mongolia this turn, I looked at the save, and if we can pull all out GS out of our towns onto the Mongol border then we can easily take the three border towns on the first turn. I suggest we ask Carthage to enter the arena, and hopefully they will disconnect the Mongolian iron for us. Then it'll just be a case of ploughing through and keeping the momentum going into Carthage, iroquois, japan. By the time we enter Japan, we should have Cavalry, so they'll be a breeze.

Suggest we either research Chivalry or Gunpowder. The top half of the tree is fairly useless to us in this game, and we will easily be able to trade for it. Some civs have Chiv already, so either trade for it or lets research it ourselves, but we need knights ASAP. Our GS are OK for Mongolia, but will probably be close to useless against Carthage.

Barbslingers right, we need more whippable towns, lets go! :)

Who's playing?

our starting roster:
M60
chunkymonkey
TimBentley
tomasjj
barbslinger
El Filet

so i suggest barbslinger takes it. i can play thursday earliest.
EDIT: make that friday

Got it. Will play tomorrow.

The GR3 turns took 8 hours last night. I will play and post tonight late. Looking over the save I think it is time for some Mongol annihilation. They are still lacking chivalry. I will be trading for chivalry and getting after them with Japan help. I'm thinking Japan so that they don't sneak attack :fingers crossed: and also to get some trade from them and to get their forces cruising far from home. then when Mongols are