SGOTM6 - Celts. Team barbslinger.

Welcome to your team thread for SGOTM06. I hope you enjoy the game.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM6-START.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Celts
World size - 100 wide by 130 high.
Difficulty Emperor (approximately)
Landform Contiguous Pangea

Here are a number of links you might find useful.

The Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1733966&postcount=61)
GOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71788)
Upload a Save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php)
Download a save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)
SGOTM06 Maintenance Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110909)

This Months' sponsored variant is Cultural Celtic Communists the rules for which are as follows.

1. The only allowed governments are despotism and communism.
2. You must win by 100K victory condition.

Your save has been uploaded to the server and will become available to you on the 7th February.

M60A3TTS reporting for duty. :salute:

I am present. I wonder what that water is (fresh/salt, connected to the ocean?). I also wonder how difficult it will be to irrigate the cow.

Some insightful discussion regarding fast 100k victories has occurred in the HOF forum. It would be good to read that. Some of it is hidden in the HOF w/o threads thread.

It looks like three settler factories could be set up (assuming the cow is irrigatible, all 4-turn).

The cow tile may not be getting irrigated depending on the terrain, i.e. a red herring, but we know for sure that the wheat and game tile can be. As the saying goes, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. My suggested opening move would be settler 2NW. Start a temple. Worker 2 west to chop the game. At 15 shields, the chop would get the temple in real quick. Then it's a matter of irrigating the game and wheat for our 4-turn settler factory. If by chance the settler on his first move NW spots another food source, the second move can be adjusted accordingly.

Hey, i'm here.

I need to go to work today but i'll post some thoughts when I get back, looking forward to this game!

Good to have you with us, chunkymonkey. Now that I'm here, I do have to disappear for about 48 hours on business. Will be back on Tuesday night, but will try to post comments.

:salute:
i'd have sent the settler SW, but M60's plan seems better to me.

I agree with M60s plan. It seems to be the most sensible based on what we can see, and since this game is basically going to be about whichever team can pump out settlers at a faster rate, we should make sure we have the most powerful tiles at our disposal right from the off. The only two downsides I can see are the two turns to settle, and moving away from coast, xcept this is pangea, so that shouldn't pose a problem. The only suggestion I'd make to to move the worker W before the settler moves, this way we can uncover the two blank squares before the final decision is made.

I'm glad we're considering the temple first approach, i imagine we'll wanting to be doing this in every newly built/acquired city.

Anybody got any ideas as to city spacing? I suggest using close to ICS, since our most important builds are going to be early game (temple, library, swordsmen) and they are not shield heavy. Obviously we can vary this once we know locations of AI, resources etc...

Also, research path? We can try to do the philosophy slingshot to literature for the libraries, since we won't be needing republic (maybe only as a powerful trading tool). We should also try to locate iron as soon as possible.

Just to note, i hardly use Communism, and i tend to go straight into republic as soon as i research it, so i'm not akin to pop-rushing. Somebody's going to have to fill me in on the basic mechanics, advantages, disadvantages etc...

Can't think of anything else that's jumping out at me right now, so i'll go have my sunday evening whisky! :)

I agree with having very tight spacing.

Another question is whether we should build the Temple of Artemis, or just pop-rush temples in new cities. The advantage of the latter approach is that the culture will double. The advantage of the former approach is that we could build other stuff faster. I'd lean towards pop-rushing temples, since they'll stay after education.

Just had a thought... what if the game cannot be irrigated directly, it looks like there is forest to NE,NW, an N of it. In this case it will take us longer to get optimum output, than if we went and irrigated the wheat first thing, which we know we can do.

However, the 10 shield boost would be nice. Anybody know if the shields do actually come to the city even though the forest would ot be in our radius?

Regarding ToA, i think it is only worth building if we are considering stopping research completely before Education, and just ICS with temples, library, and cathedral. Otherwise, we should just pop-rush temples, they are extremely cheap. Capturing the ToA on the other hand... :mischief:

change of mind
since we're going at least close to ICS, we may settle on spot, go for a quick settler and settle our 2nd city on the planned spot. i think rapid expansion is more important then early temples, but with the cheap temples we should be able to build some in between settlers. however, we should grab as much land as possible as early as possible, so i vote for early granary in our settler pump.

The reason I would not settle on the spot is that it will probably not give us a superior growth curve. We will need another city to take advantage of the wheat and game. The move 2NW allows us to take advantage as soon as we get border expansion of Entremont on turn 7.

you're right, with the need for culture making the capitol our settler pump is the better option.

Anybody know if the shields do actually come to the city even though the forest would ot be in our radius?
I'm pretty sure they do.

i'm pretty sure they don't, they do if they're in the 21 radius but not in the cultural radius. :confused:

i'm pretty sure they don't, they do if they're in the 21 radius but not in the cultural radius. :confused:
That's what I meant. Within the 21 tiles.

That water is saltwater, by the way.

Yes, we will get the shields even though the border will not have expanded at that time.

Thanks for the email Tim. I'm here and reporting. I am flying to Minnesota on business tomorrow AM and will be back Saturday so I can not start the game. I will monitor the thread on the road though.

So who wants to start? I probably couldn't play until Thursday.

I can't play until Thursday/Friday either. I don't mind doing it, but we should probably get this rolling sooner rather than later.

Have we settled on a strategy?

Settler 2 NW. Worker chops game, roads, irrigates... (chopping other forests if necessary to irrigate but remember to time for efficient shield use). With the irrigated game, we have 5fpt, so we can concentrate on mining those BGs.

Initial builds - Temple, Warrior, Settler? (optimised of course)
Research path? - straight to literature at max? or republic for trading?

Signing in.
Reading the thread... :)
jj

i need to finish another game today, i don't think i can play 2. but should have time tomorrow.

in case we need 2 chops for game irrigation, i'd send the settler to the wheat first and build warrior(s) until our worker is ready for the chops. will rather invest the shields in granary then temple if possible.

i'm having problems deciding for a research path. researching something we don't need (like republic) is a bit risky, but would be great if it works. depends a bit on the number of contacts. we can certainly use lib, but i don't see us building GLib.

I've just had a different idea. I think we should settle one square west, and still go for the game chop. This has numerous advantages:

- We gain one turn.
- We get to use the game forest straight away rather than just a BG (therefore temple build will be quicker).
- The game can be irrigated straight away after chopping.
- We still have the three BGs (at least) and forest in our radius necessary for our four turn settler pump.
- We save a space around the wheat for another four turn settler pump.

Only disadvantage i can see:
- We lose a shield from the BG... not a big deal in my estimation for the purposes of the settler pump.

I'm at uni now, i'll refine this when i get home and do the calclations as to what we can build and work every turn, but just thought i'd throw this up as a suggestion before we start.

I'm inclined to go with my suggestion though :)

@el_filet

The sooner we get the temple in, which is going to help with happiness anyway, we're going to get a whole extra bunch of culture (beating the other teams could come down to a few turns)... i'd prefer to build temple as a priority, but if noone else agrees...

The only reason i suggested Literature is because i think our priority builds in the AA are going to be settlers, temples, libraries, swordsmen. So its either IW or Literature...

Only disadvantage i can see:
- We lose a shield from the BG... not a big deal in my estimation for the purposes of the settler pump.

what about the lack of food bonus? we need 2 bonus food squares for a 4 turn settler factory. or am i missing something?

i agree on your (chunkymonkey) priorities in AA. i hope we can do some expanding before we need to go to war, so i vote for research toward lit.

an early temple is certainly a good thing, i just think in our settler pump a granary is even more important. i think we can (we probably have to) build the temple before we're set up for 4 turn settlers, but we should max grow as early as possible.

I've just had a different idea. I think we should settle one square west, and still go for the game chop. This has numerous advantages:

- We gain one turn.
- We get to use the game forest straight away rather than just a BG (therefore temple build will be quicker).
- The game can be irrigated straight away after chopping.
- We still have the three BGs (at least) and forest in our radius necessary for our four turn settler pump.
- We save a space around the wheat for another four turn settler pump.

Only disadvantage i can see:
- We lose a shield from the BG... not a big deal in my estimation for the purposes of the settler pump.

Does a single irrigated game or wheat gives us a 4-turn settler factory? We have to be +5 in the food bin for that. In any case. I really don't like settling on BGs. That's a lost shield for the entire game which can add up over time. To save one turn doesn't offset that loss IMO.

I will be back tonight and can open the game if no one else can.

Remember, the Celts are agricultural. 3 food in the city center + 4 food for the irrigated game/wheat = +5fpt.

We might as well go for philosophy. Literature would either be the free tech or the next one.

In any case. I really don't like settling on BGs. That's a lost shield for the entire game which can add up over time.



Are you sure? What happens when the city hits size 7?


Sorry - but I'm not playing and I tend to get emotionally involved. :blush:

Remember, the Celts are agricultural. 3 food in the city center + 4 food for the irrigated game/wheat = +5fpt.
-1 despotism penalty => +4fpt

now i forgot the irrigation :crazyeye:: +5fpt (hopefully final :))

in that case, we should consider this option. i like the plan. i hate to give up a BG too, but if there are enough BG closeby to make the 4 turn settler factory happen, it's worth it.

Are you sure? What happens when the city hits size 7?


You got me, MB, sort of, but I believe we don't pick up that extra shield until pop 12 or 13. That still takes a while, esp if it's 13 and we're now talking hospitals. And with rail after communism, we lose the 3rd shield.

Note that even if the capital is founded 2 tiles NW, another city could also use the game or wheat.

My idea was sort of based on the premise that Entremont would be our main settler pump for most, if not all of the early game. Settling on the BG is partially abhorrent to me too, and I would usually never ever do it, but it has this main advantage:

We can irrigate the game straight away after chopping and get the magic 5fpt. If we have to muck around with chopping forests and irrigating all over the place we have effectively lost a few turns of growth.

In my opinion these extra turns of growth are much more important than a single shield, which we don't actually require in the REX phase due to having all the necessary shields around for the 4 turn settler pump. Once we stop using Entremont as the settler pump, probably mid middle-ages, the extra shield that we could have gained will pale into comparison to the extra growth we received at the beginning. In my opinion...

I don't feel extremely dogmatic about this, but I feel it is the best option for us. I would be willing to play the first turn set to carry it through, and then all abuse can be directed at me for the rest of the game. Or if the team prefers M60s idea, then he can run with that...

The city gets the extra shield if it's on a BG at size 7. The industrious extra shield is what comes at size 13.

The city gets the extra shield if it's on a BG at size 7. The industrious extra shield is what comes at size 13.
That's what I figured, and as soon as Entremont stops being our settler pump, for which it has all the requirements, it will be size 7 in no time at all.

Note that even if the capital is founded 2 tiles NW, another city could also use the game or wheat.
Of course, but I like the fact that we will be able to work the game straight away. Entremont has no real reason to be anywhere near the wheat.

Anyway, on a lighter note, thought it would be useful to have a record of who our friends are going to be.

Well no one has really stated a strong opinion of either view, although e_f seems to lean towards chunky's recommendation. So let's go with it. We are in agreement with temple as a first build and getting a settler factory up and running at first opportunity. No one has said got it, so I now "got it". Results coming up.

The save at 3000 BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC3000_01.SAV)

Turn 0 (4000BC) And away we go…Settler and worker west.

IBT- Barb kills us, game over. No, not really!

Turn 1 (3950BC) Entremont settled, and we will pick up a silk on culture expansion. Worker 1 west to chop the forest. 5 BGs to work around the city, so a good location. Start a run on Alpha at min sci. It’s 50 turns across the board. Start chopping the game tile.

Then nothing up until…

Turn 6 (3700BC) Forest chop done, temple in 7, start irrigating. Lux to 20% with growth in 1.

IBT- zzz

Turn 7 (3650BC) Temple now in 2. MM to bring it in 1.

IBT- Entremont temple> warrior in 4.

Turn 8 (3600BC) Lux to zero.

IBT- Entremont expands.

Turn 9 (3550BC) zzzz

IBT- nothing.

Turn 10 (3500BC) Irrigation complete, start the road.

IBT- nothing

Turn 11 (3450BC) zzzz

IBT- Entremont warrior>warrior

Turn 12 (3400BC) Start our warrior exploring south.

IBT- nothing.

Turn 13 (3350BC) Lux to 10%. Worker to BG tile.

IBT- Entremont warrior> warrior.

Turn 14 (3300BC) Warrior explores south

IBT- nothing

Turn 15 (3250BC) Quiet

IBT- Quiet

Turn 16 (3200BC) Warrior confirms the cow east of Entremont has no direct access, so we made the right call. Warrior in 2, MM growth in 2.

IBT- Warrior>granary.

Turn 17 (3150BC) Lux back to zero. South warrior spots a silk 6 tiles south of Entremont.

IBT- Nothing

Turn 18 (3100BC) Same

IBT- Still quiet.

Turn 19 (3050BC) More exploring,

IBT- Quiet

(3000 BC) Entremont size 4 with growth in 7, granary in 6. North warrior climbs a hill and spots a Japanese warrior. Find them up BW and wheel, they need pottery, but will not trade techs. They’ll give 60 gold for pottery and that’s it. Firaxis score 90. And done.

We don't have an order yet, so who wants to grab it next?

And FWIW, chunky's strategy worked just fine. After this set, with the staff team still pending, we have the best results by a hair over Team Bede. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Barbslinger_3000BC.JPG

Good job!
Seems like our little gamble paid off.
Thinking about where we should put the second city.
Two alternatives stand out, both the bonus food tiles.
1) On the coast south of the game, to get the dyes on expansion.
2) One tile NE of the wheat.
Two lux so close is nice.
I cant play today, and I guess we need to hang back for some discussions and opinions here and not race on. Remember, we have plenty of time for this game, and there is no need to rush it just cause the other teams move along. If we take it easy we can also see their graphs and then we know what to beat. :)
JJ

Good job M60, thanks for executing the idea so elegantly :thumbsup:
I can take it and play if nobody else wants to.

There won't be many decisions to make before the next turn set since the settler probably won't fall out before the end, but if everyone who feels strongly about our next city location wants to voice their opinions that'll get the discussion.

Depends what we want from our next city but if we stick one south of the game as per tomassjj's suggestion, we can get another 4-turn pump. Or we could have a 2 turn worker pump by the wheat...

I'm at uni now, but i'll leave the game untouched until everyone's had a chance to comment...

well done M60 - as usual. i'd have liked to see the silk chop go to the granary, but we'll certainly find use for it.

both suggested sites look good, the S slighly better due to lux (dyes ;)) & settler factory potential. but i'd build the N site first, spit out workers and hopefully get the same start as in the capital for the S (temple with forest chop->granary, sneak in MP as needed).
2 early luxes will help, but without workers they won't come online for a while.

a general question about city placement:
what are our intentions? ICS?
i don't like ICS, but we'll certainly need a dense build. i prefer to build cities as needed and fill in spots as possible. on the other hand, ICS will probably be required to get a good score. if so, we need to plan the early cities accordingly.

Ah, the ICS issue. Somehow conveniently forgot about that...as I dont usually play like that in single games.
I guess in a 100K race we would need many cities with temples and cath, libs very quick. And you dont need an enormous amount of tiles for each city, considering despotism whipping either... Anyway, this is a new strat to me, so only ranting here.

One MadBax note from the maintenance thread: Barb activity "is set to raging and in crackers words "with regionally intense barbarian activity."
Something to keep in mind when settlers start wandering...
jj

I'm tempted to put the next city by the wheat and start churning out workers, however I would prefer to put it 1 square NW of the wheat. This gives us a forest to play with on expansion, and allows us to dump another couple of cities (eg. a city 2 NE of the wheat, and a city E,SE,SE) in that space. Denser packing, but still viable cities.

Although... starting to get a second settler pump by the game constructed right now would be great. It would take a little bit of working, but whilst the infrastructure, mining etc. was getting set up, it could have a temple and start building some settler escorts (which will help with the barbs...)

I'm not sure yet... :coffee:

And yes, i think ICS (or an approximate) is definitely the way to go after we've put down our 3 core cities... i'm intrigued to see what lies to the West beyond all those hills and mountains :hmm:

Some general stuff:

Thoughts on ICS. Before we go hog wild with new cities, we need to think about the implications of extended despotism, and our ability to economically support a lot of infrastructure. Once we get building totally corrupt cities, our cash flow will start dropping as we add the additional cultural buildings. And research as a consequence is going to be slow.

Towards that end, I would consider the Great Library as a definite thing to build or acquire through other means. In extended despotism as much as anything, we have to be thrifty. The less cash we spend on science, the more we can use to support the military and infrastructure builds. I would not recommend we build a lot of barracks, again relating to their maintenance costs. Probably no more than 4-5.

The other wonder we should look to prebuild or acquire is Sistine's. By doubling the happiness of cathedrals and temples, that would keep our lux taxes down even further. Again, a cash-saving play. Obviously a long way to go, but wanted to at least plant the seed for later discussion.

I do like the idea of getting a worker pump going so we can chop them trees and accelerate the temple and later library builds. It will become more of an advantage as each town becomes more corrupt.

A city could go 2 SE of the wheat to pick up the cow.

Entremont seems close to a 4-turn warrior-settler factory, but I haven't been able to see a way to do it (haven't looked much, to be honest). But I think Entremont and the city by the game could be 3.5-5.5 factories. On second thought, I'm not sure corruption would allow that for the game city. But a 4-6 factory would work.

Good idea Tim, I think thats where I'd like to put the next town. It'll only be able to use the wheat until it expands (after Entremont expands obviously), but that'll be good enough for our 5fpt. Once it has expanded it can make use of the cow.

Anyway, I'll play this at some point after I get back from my lecture. If anyone wants to stop me then they have about 6 hours.

I decided to finish a turn early due to some extra info...

The Save! (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC2590_01.SAV)

Our settler will be complete next turn, but I thought we'd better discuss the possibility of a different city site based on what the warriors have discovered.

Turnlog 3000BC - 2590BC

0 - 3000BC - Stick sci to 10% without bothering research time. Increase revenue by 1gpt.

1 - 2950BC - Move northern warrior west onto hill. He spots another wheat. Move southern warrior onto hill.

IBT - The Japnese learn Alphabet.

2 - 2900BC - Southern warrior moves west. Northern warrior moves SW.

3 - 2850BC - Worker moves onto next BG. Northern warrior continues exploring. Southern warrior continues exploring to the west.

4 - 2800BC - MM Entremont for gold, production and growth unchanged. Worker mines next BG. Warriors continue.

5 - 2750BC - MM Entremont to prevent growth. Warriors continue.

IBT - Entremont builds Granary - start settler.

6 - 2710BC - Warriors keep on going.

7 - 2670BC - Increase lux to 20%.

IBT - Japanese learn Warrior code.

8 - 2630BC - Northern warrior finds some spices. MM Entremont to match settler production to growth.

9 - 2590BC - Northern Warrior meets the Mongols. They are up BW, Masonry and WC.

Firaxis 101, Jason 34, Culture 82 (6cpt)

Here's a piccie:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/pic1.JPG

As you can see, the wheat to the NW gives us another potential settler factory. Do we want to grab this now, considering the Mongols probably live somewhere to the west, or should we continue with our original plan...

I would go with the new wheat, 3NW 1N.

Wow, plenty of food around. A city could go between the wheats, but I'm not sure it would be able to take advantage of that. M60's proposed location seems good.

Sounds good to me.

I propose the 3rd city should go in our originally planned location between wheat and cow, then the 4th can go near the southern game, but we won't get that far...

Initial builds for 2nd city?

Suggest - Warrior, Worker, Temple... Worker etc...

I'd let Entremont build a warrior next (2 turns for that), and send the current garrison along as escort. That way City 2 can go straight to worker-temple.

I've done a little more calculation, and a city by the northern wheat, a city by the game, and a city by the cow (if the wheat was mined) all could be 5-7 factories. But one should be a worker factory (all could do that at size 4).

Entremont is currently set up quite nicely to be a 4-turn factory (after the interturn, that is), so the worker could go to work elsewhere. I can't see a way to get the settler out 3 turns after building the warrior. By the way, the forest could be switched to the water to get more gold, as the extra shield will be picked up on growth.

I would say warrior, worker, temple, granary for the second city. I would say worker first for the third city.

@ TB: If you want to grab it next after cm posts, do what you think best.

I'll play this evening, especially since I'll be gone the next two days.

2590(0)-Do the MM I suggested

IBT-Entremont settler->settler

2550(1)-lower lux to 10%

2510(2)-zzz

2470(3)-raise lux to 20%

2430(4)-found Alesia in M60's spot, start on warrior
see Chinese? border in the NW

IBT-Entremont settler->settler

2390(5)-lower lux to 10%

2350(6)-China is up BW, masonry, WC, down CB
sell ceremonial burial to China for masonry, 22g
buy alphabet from Japan for masonry, pottery, 162g
sell alphabet to China for warrior code, bronze working, 88g
buy the wheel from Mongols for alphabet, 10g
we're now even with Japan, Mongols, up the wheel on China
I see no horses
90% research on writing, 37 turns, -2gpt

2310(7)-raise lux to 20%
find incense out to the west

IBT-Japan founds city across straight from city site (wouldn't it be nice to flip it?); luckily not next to the cow

2270(8)-found Lugdunum near wheat and cow, start on worker

IBT-Entremont settler->settler

2230(9)-Mongolia is to the west?
buy iron working from China for the wheel, 65g, 2gpt
sell iron working to Japan for 195g
I'm glad mad-bax wasn't so cruel to not give the resource for our UU; Alesia will get iron upon expansion

IBT-China kicks out our warrior
Alesia warrior->worker

2190(10)-lower lux to 10%
I'll play an extra turn to even it out

2150(11)-raise lux to 20%

Notes: settler one south (as previously discussed)
Don't hook up iron until we've produced as many warriors as we want
Sorry, I only just now realized Lugdunum is not on the river, but the cow will make up for it. So irrigate the wheat and it'll be a worker factory. I'm not sure whether it will have to be at size 5 or if size 4 (after considering it, I believe size 4 would work once it is connected to the capital) would work for it.
I took a screenie, but I forgot to paste it. Only the cities and settler have changed from the previous screenshot anyways.

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC2150_01.SAV).

el_filet or jj is up next.

I am up in another game, so please el, take it if you can.
JJ

Comments:
Nice tech trading!
Just so we dont get lost in the all the "pumping" - any culture builds up?
Are we building collossus in the coastal cow town? Or prebuilding something else?
Naturally we should be worrying about land grab, and expand towards the Mongols.
Remember that they are very agressive, and that there are plenty of barbs out there.
Soon Horsies too, *shrug*

i'm up in 3 games, not sure i can play before you :)
will finish my games an look if you already got it 'til then...

nice trading, good to know we have iron. hope we won't need it for a while.

Sorry, I only just now realized Lugdunum is not on the river
We could use a worker pump anyway, but i don't see how you can grab wheat and cow without beein on the river. guess i'll see when i open the save.

city priority:
next settler will be sent to dyes/game i guess (worker should go with it if aviable). but what afterwards? i'd say spices first (needs escort) and wool next. are there any chokes we need to secure first?

Nice job with all the tech trades :thumbsup:

Whoever's next, Alesia will need micromanaging in two turns to optimise production.

Naturally we should be worrying about land grab, and expand towards the Mongols. Remember that they are very agressive, and that there are plenty of barbs out there.
Yep, I agree, we should always consider the possibility that Genghis will declare on us at any time. We should also try to grab the spices before the Chinese do, having three luxes this early in the game will be very useful. A city next to the freshwater by the spices would be perfect.

Don't hook up iron until we've produced as many warriors as we want
Good point, but we should try to strike a balance between having a massive band of warriors to defend with and a handful of swordmen, who are infinitely more useful. At our current research rate we're not going to have an awesome amount of upgrade money. BTW how much does a warrior-gallic swordsman upgrade cost?

Sorry, I only just now realized Lugdunum is not on the river, but the cow will make up for it. So irrigate the wheat and it'll be a worker factory. I'm not sure whether it will have to be at size 5 or if size 4 (after considering it, I believe size 4 would work once it is connected to the capital) would work for it.
That's strange I could have sworn it would lie on the river. Oh well, doesn't matter really, however, there is a minor flip risk in Lugdunum now. Perhaps we should switch to warrior, then worker... gives Lugdunum a chance to grow as well.

Suggestions for settler in production? I say either spices, or goats to the west. We are going to need to start producing escorts for these settlers...

Good luck to whoever takes it next... remember the settler in transit needs to go one square S.

GS costs 40 shields, means 60 gold for upgrade iirc.

I got it.
I can play sometime tomorrow (sunday), hopefully around 1500 CET.
As I havent played for 100K I would be happy to get some advice on priorities now.
- Is it just land grab?
- Do we sneak in a temple or two?
- Any culture phat wonder?
- Does the culture of an improvement double again after 2000 yrs as after 1000?
I guess not, but can someone confirm this?
- Settler to silks I guess?
- When can we start crackin the whip? Isnt it 20 shields pr pop?
Ah... sorry for the barrage of questions, I just want to make sure we are clear on the strat here.
- I guess not hooking up the iron is solely with the purpose of upgrading our front forces later on to Gallics?
JJ

There is a post in the maintenance thread that mentions that the Temple of Zeus requires silks, not ivory to build, once we learn math. Could be a good thing for us.

@ JJ- You get 19 shields for one pop. We are in a land grab phase at the moment. A temple or two wouldn't hurt. Culture only doubles once AFAIK. I am not in agreement that we should spend a lot of cash on upgrades. We are going to need to be cash conservative since we are going to have a cash crunch the longer we stay in despotism and the more improvements we add. I do think that we should make a run for the GLib, so we can run at zero science. Entremont should be able to generate enough shields to do the job.

- Is it just land grab?
- Do we sneak in a temple or two?
- Any culture phat wonder?
Its a balance between landgrab and sneaking in early culture, as is most of the strategy of civ, but i feel as though we've been given the chance to expand quite far out, so let's concentrate on getting as many cities as possible towards the west. Obviously, whilst new cities are growing to settler production status, they can be building temples.

Does the culture of an improvement double again after 2000 yrs as after 1000? I guess not, but can someone confirm this?
M60 is right, culture only doubles once.

Settler to silks I guess?
I'm assuming you mean spices? We already have the silk. I think the next settler should go to the spice towards the west. It will probably need an escort. Also, try and place it next to the freshwater so we can get our food bonus. The settler currently in transit should settle 1 square S of where it is. This will give us the game, the dye, and our 4 turn factory...

Good luck JJ :)

Preturn - 2150:

Look around.
Check our cities.
We are running 20% lux without hooking up the silk...
1 - 2110 BC:
Nothing.
2 - 2070 BC:
Entremont: Settler-Warrior.
Micromanage.
Settler cant go all the way without escort. Moving towards Alesia for now.
Camulodunum founded in the south, by game and dyes.

3 - 2030 BC:
Alesia: Worker-Warrior.

4 - 1990 BC:
Entremont: Warrior-Settler

5 - 1950 BC:
Lugundum: Warrior-Granary.
Mongols and Japanese are building the Oracle.

6 - 1910 BC:
Nothing.

7 - 1870 BC:
Camulodunum : Warrior-Temple.
Alesia: Warrior-Temple.

8 - 1830 BC:
Entremont: Settler-Archer.
Adjust lux down to 10.

9 - 1790 BC:
Settler 1 in place now by spices.
Moving settler 2 towards goat-mountain.

10 - 1750 BC:
Whip temple in Alesia 1pop for 18 shields.
Turn up lux to 20. When Silks online next turn this can be turned down again hopefully.
--------------------------------------------
NB: I left the Settler by the spices unmoved as I am not sure if the city will be on fresh-water at this spot.
Will it? It has coast adjacent. JJ

And the save:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC1750_01.SAV

I am not sure about the builds.
There is a granary (Lugundum) and a temple (Camulodunum) set up, that can be switched as I havent really thought this through.

Its looking good JJ. Haven't looked at the save yet, but from the turnlog everything seems in order.

btw, there's a discussion going on the maintenance thread about differential naval movement which may affect our game, so i'm asked AlanH to keep us updated on when its safe to play again :)

OK a couple of things.

Entremont should switch to settler. We don't need archers in my opinion. Had Entermont been micromanaged on growth, we would have had the settler on growth to 6. Entermont is a four turn pump, but it requires constant attention since it is not fully worked. The governor makes odd choices. At the current setting we have lost a turn or two of growth. Suggest the irrigated game citizen should be moved to BG for this turn, and the next citizen be placed on whatever tile is necessary for settler completion. We will be back to size 3.5 but we can work around this from then on - expansion is priority.

The spices settler is perfect where he is. He should settle.
The goat settler should move one square W, one square SW, then settle.

Lugdunum should be producing temple.
Alesia needs optimising.

Who wants to take this next? el_fil or barbslinger are still to play...

Aye. Sorry about the micromanaging of Entremont.
I was actually trying to figure that out when I got the game, but I couldnt get the shield/food counts to match up, so I was always left with surplus/shortage for optimalization. I am sure that this is my cross-eyeing though.
jj

It's OK, don't worry, I often forget to manage settler pumps every turn. Its just that each turn that any of us forget could have been an extra turn that we had a city down, and an extra bit of culture...

At the moment, the problem is that when Entremont grows to size 5, the governor places the extra citizen on the silk forest, since it is the most productive. However, this reduces us to 4fpt. Therefore once we get to size 5 we have to switch the forest citizen to the unworked BG. Reduces the number of shields, but this is OK, since...

Turn 1 - city + irrigated game + mined BG + mined BG + unworked BG = 6 shields.
Turn 2 - 6 shields + extra 2 from governor placing citizen on forest = 8 shields.
Turn 3 - city + irrigated game + mined BG + mined BG + unworked BG + unworked BG = 7 shields.
Turn 4 - 7 shields + extra 2 from governor placing citizen on forest = 9 shields.

6+8+7+9 = 30

As I said, don't worry, I'm bound to screw it up at some point, but as long as we can all try to make it work we can retain our lead over the other teams :thumbsup:

Thanks for the explanation there, chunky.
I have read the settler pump issue before, but need more practice on this.
JJ

Time for a roster-

el filet-up
barbslinger- on deck
M60- below deck
chunkymonkey- waiting and dreaming of settler factories in his sleep
TimBentley- waiting
tomasjj- just finished

i got it, some games are in the pipe, may take a while

I'll be gone until Sunday.

i got it, some games are in the pipe, may take a while

Maybe barbslinger and you should flip, if he's available to take it. A slow pace is ok, but we don't want the game to hang for too long.

Alrighty, I'll take it and play tonight. Sorry about the lack of comments. I'll add a full barrage when I post tomorrow.

I forgot the save at home. Will post it tonight.

Barbslinger –1750bc

Preturn - Found Richborough toget the spices. Set to temple. Change Capital to settler and MM to get the settler in 2. Lug goes to a temple. Move other settler towards western hill near river to get the goats.

IT- Alesia – Temple > Rax for some military down the road. I was thinking of going for a placeholder for a culture wonder but the key will be in lots of cities and that will take some military action.

1-1725BC Japan has writing now. No real trading 2-fers yet, because Toku won’t give up writing for even 161g and 8gpt. Lower lux due to silks being online and raise science to 90% to get writing in 9. Whip the temple in Camu for 19s.

IT – Camu-Temple> Worker

(2) 1700 – Sic worker on capital forest to speed up a settler build next time around.

IT – Capital – Settler > Settler. Toku wants 26g and since I have not see him on our continent I decline and we get War happiness.

(3) 1675 – Found Verulamium on Goat Hill. MM and get some workers working.

IT – Nada.

(4) 1650 – Nothing much to do.

IT – Alesia expands.

(5) 1625 – Mogols have writing for sale at 80g. 4 turns to go. At 18g science per turn we will spend I try to get it from Temu for 71g and save the 4 turns. We get it and trade writing to Mao for Myst and 8g. Go for Philo to try and get free tech. It will be in around 15-22 turns.

IT – Capital – Settler>Settler. Vikings complete Colossus.

(6) 1600 – Moving out the settler to settle on the river. Crossing Chinese territory to explore to the north. Decide to get a quick archer out of capital while pop builds. I mis-calculated the forest chop and growth.

IT – Camu – Worker> Curraugh for contacts.

(7) 1575 – Found Gergovia. We really need more workers to hook up our towns. Crossing the Chinese land finds 2 other tiles and then coast. Darn, have to turn it around. Japs still won’t talk. Philo now in 11.

IT – Lugdunum – Temple>Worker.

(8) 1550 – Augustodurum founded on N coast.

IT – Entremont – Archer>Settler

(9) 1525 – Archer to Gergovia to watch for barbs.

IT – Nada

(10) 1500 – Nothing really to do and it is late. You can rush the temple in Veru.

We have a nice lead in culture already. I think that we need to start building some military soon to knock China out prior to them getting Chivalry. Toku still won’t talk. Philo in 7 and perhaps we can get the bonus tech. Entremont should straighten out soon too. More development of the other cities should put us in good position. We are leading in pop and slightly behind in land.

More city sites that we can get temples going in. We really need a worker pump too.

Anyone have thoughts about what free tech we should go for once the save is posted?

Out of the possibles: HBR, Poly, CoL, Lit, Maps and Maths...

HBR, CoL, Poly and Maps are pretty pointless right now IMO. That leaves Lit and Maths I would go for Lit so we can start getting more culture in our non military towns. AI civs tend to research Maths anyway so we'll have it in no time. Should we be attempting to build the G Library? I'm personally not bothered whether we build it or capture it, but we should have it...

Oh and good going barbslinger, sounds like everything went well. Any chance of seeing the save?

I also think Lit would be the way to go here. I do think we can build the GLib.

Here is the save. I'll post it to the maintenance thread too.

edit: I tried to post it but the is an error on the page.

Looks good. Noticed that we could reduce lux to 10% and up research to 90%, gets us Phil one turn sooner.

You're up el_filet...

i got it...

I uploaded the 1500BC save to the server so that our score graph would be more accurate...

I'm back.

1500 BC (0):
i'm surprised to see roaded forests, usually chop them first
notice the goats are just a bonus ressource, like the sheep near hangchow :(
closest horses are next to mongol frontier
lack of military, especially close to japanes cities. first rax finishes next turn.
up science to avoid neg. income


IBT:
alesia: rax->spear

1475 BC (1):
downl lux, up science

IBT:
get booted by chinese
lugdunum: worker->granary (now i know what was meant by no river: no food bonus or crossing penalty)
chinese build pyramids

IBT:
booted again
entremont: settler->warrior

1425 BC (3):
japanese want lugdunum for peace

IBT:
camulodunum: curragh->granary

1400 BC (4):
up lux, down science

IBT:
entremont: warrior->rax (rather sneak them in sooner then later)
alesia: spear->settler
richborough: temple->worker
veralumaium: temple->worker

1375 BC (5):
mongols&chinese got math
up science to get philo in 2 (with neg. income ;))

IBT:
boot from mao. that map knowledge wasn't worth making him annoyed, sorry

IBT:
philo in
sell it to mongols for math&142g
to mao for HBR&33g
construction->CoL
paris completes pyramids
chinese switch to oracle

1325 BC (7):
curraghs are bad for exploring, even in sea they can't make 2 moves
chinese got dyes too (unconnected as ours)
run max science with 206g in the bin (18 turns)

IBT:
boot from polite mao :)

IBT:
kicked out by mao
cultural exp pops barb hut :(
gregovia: tample->worker
londen finishes oracle

1275 BC (9):
switch worker in vero to warrior (we have a chance behind river)

IBT:
kicked again
japanese sign in mongols against us :eek:
entremont: rax->settler
alesia: settler->spear
richborough: worker->rax
veralunium: warrior->worker
mongols&chinese start MoM

1250 BC (10):
down lux, up science (MP)
2 settlers ready (unmoved, one intended to found in place)


notes:
focused most workers on road net and factroy setup. suggest next player connects lux.
what about zeus?

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC1250_01.SAV

Well the Mongols are a different problem. The Japanese couldn't get at us but the Mongols, I believe, can. We will have to get a military together. How far away are they?
The warrior that is bothering Mao did not know it was only 2 tiles left up there when he went to explore it so without having the map knowledge you don't know if it is worth it or not. It could have been a conduit to northern territories.
Do we know everyone yet?
Also with this being a 100K game I'm thinking libraries should be a build soon. Keep pumping settlers and fit in every where we can. I recall a SirPleb game where he ICS'ed his core with temples,libraries and then he would jump his capital to a newly conquered core and repeat the ICS in the new core and build temple/lib there. He continued that for the whole game jumping his capital 4-5 times.

The save at 1000 BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC1000_01.SAV)

Preturn- Found Agedincum. Spear in 10.

IBT- Get booted out of Chinese lands.

Turn 1 (1225BC) Lux to 20%. Worker actions.

IBT- Barb warrior dies at Verulamium.

Turn 2 (1200BC) Worker actions.

IBT- Entremont settler>settler

Turn 3 (1175BC) Science to zero.

IBT- nothing

Turn 4 (1150BC) worker actions

IBT- still nothing.

Turn 5 (1125BC) Eboracum founded. Japan will talk now. Make peace with them by handing over construction. We get poly, lit, and 126 gold. Trade poly to Mao for MM and 1 gold. Mongols still won’t talk.

IBT- Japan building MoM.

Turn 6 (1100BC) worker actions. Rush temple in Augustodurum.

IBT- nothing

Turn 7 (1075BC) worker stuff. Mongols still won’t talk.

IBT- Mongols finish MoM. China starts ToA.

Turn 8 (1050BC) Spices connected, lux to zero. Burdigala founded.

IBT- Mongols showing up near Agedincum with 4 archers and a warrior. We have a defending archer.

Turn 9 (1025BC) Time to talk to Temujin. He’ll give us peace if he can give us 5 gold as well. Sure, we’ll take your gold. ;)

IBT- Japan is building Glib. Mongols working on it too.

Turn 10 (1000BC) worker actions and have 2 settlers ready to plant. One 3SW of Gergovia and one NE of Richborough needs to go one more tile NE. Science down to 10%. Score 389.

Post turn- CoL in 1. We can trade for CoL from China and pick up a worker if we want to give them construction. Not much of a deal, but I thought I’d mention it.

Oops. Double post.

Do we have lit yet? We need to get cracking on some libs too. As soon as our core has libs/temples we should get busy conquering someone to increase our culture there and get shots at a GL.

Time to talk to Temujin
good timing!

@barbslinger
my comment was directed at myself not at you. went on exploring anyway, should have talked louder to myself :D
Do we have lit yet?
traded in peace talks with japan

I've got it. Seems like things are going well. Has everyone looked at our culture graph compared to the other teams recently? :thumbsup:

Plan to start mass library production soon. Agree with barbslinger in that we need to conquer someone - China anyone? They have horses so we'll need to hook up our iron and mass upgrade if we have a chance. Perhaps we could even convince the Mongols to get in on the act? Beijing is building ToA so perhaps we can pick this up too.

So what does everyone say about research? Do we have a chance at keeping up in the middle ages? I suppose all we really need in the short term is up to Education and possibly saltpetre location. We could probably get most of this through pointy stick.

So how about we stick on max research until libs are built, then min research whilst mass produce warriors, upgrade to GS, go pound on China, and hopefully get a GA just at the point we can build cathedrals. Would be perfect...

I'll wait for response then i'll play in 24 hours or so... :)

conquering ToA would be great, given we fill the empty lands with cities until then. starting libs sounds good, but i think we'll need some military for our hopefully many new cities. it's easier to settle unclaimed land, we should do that if we still can. in case we can't settle some new towns, ToA won't help that much and there's still the chance mao won't get it. we will have to conquer, but i think we should get as much land as we can before we go to war. try to make a defendable front line, but i don't think we can avoid a large frontier.

I like Chunky's thinkin'

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC0750_01.SAV

0 - 1000BC - MM between Entermont and Gergovia to optimise. MM Camulodunum.

IBT - Learn CoL. Stick research of Currency on max. Entremont settler -> library (emphasise prod.)

1 - 975BC - Settle Cataractonium SW of Gergovia -> temple. MMing and worker actions.

IBT - Augustodurum builds worker -> granary.

2 - 950BC - MM Camulodonum. Settle Lapurdum on peninsula NE of Richborough -> temple.

IBT - Lugdunum builds galley -> worker. Camulodunum builds settler -> library.

3 - 925BC - Some microing, worker moving.

IBT - Japanese building G Wall.

4 - 900BC - More optimising.

IBT - Lugdunum worker -> library. Washington builds the Great Library. :(

5 - 875BC - Micro, worker actions...

IBT - Agedincum builds temple -> worker. Japanese swtch to Great Wall. Japanese establish an embassy. Orleans builds Statue of Zeus :( . Mongols are building Great Lighthouse.

6 - 850BC - Settle Ratae Coritanorum -> temple.


7 - 825BC - usual boring stuff...

IBT - Burdigala builds temple - granary.

8 - 800BC - Found Tolosa SW of Verulamium -> temple.

IBT - Richborough builds granary - worker. Verulamium builds granary - worker. Gergovia builds granary - settler.

9 - 775BC - Meet Carthage to west of mongols. They are down Construction.

IBT - Entermont builds library -> warrior (at 10spt) minimised food for a couple of turns.

10 - 750BC - Up lux to 10%, just for this turn. Dye is hooked up next turn.

Firaxis: 480
Culture: 867 (+27)

Things to note:
Playing cat and mouse with chinese settler up at richborough - fun. Currency in 5. Need more culture, cities etc... - we are still beating all teams in culture, however after the next 60 turns, Team Bede is 4000 culture ahead of us i.e 66cpt. We are 27cpt, and some of our doubling bonuses will come into effect soon, but we need more temples and libraries, and more cities to put them in, either settled or captured :devil:.

Another thing, we have a couple of spearmen. Not quite sure why... i personally never build defensive military units, i see them as a waste of time, especially when we could have had two warriors instead which could have had been upgraded to GS later. Also from now on, i think its unnecessary to have cities without rax building military, either they should be granary/worker/settler cities, or they should be outlying cities and concentrating on temple/library etc...

Oh yeah, and how come differential naval movement is engaged but our ships' movement remains regular??? Is this right? It's really frustrating.

You're up Tim! Good luck! :)

EDIT : I've just PM'ed Alan about the rubbish ship movement so hopefully we'll get a reply soon.

Got it. I should play tomorrow.

Another thing, we have a couple of spearmen. Not quite sure why... i personally never build defensive military units, i see them as a waste of time, especially when we could have had two warriors instead which could have had been upgraded to GS later.

I built at least one of them, and see them in a different light. Defensive units have their uses. We didn't have a rax in the town they were built, and I'm not in favor of spending a lot on reg units when maint costs become an issue. And in this case with high barb activity, I see a spear having a better chance of survival than two warriors.

I built at least one of them, and see them in a different light. Defensive units have their uses. We didn't have a rax in the town they were built, and I'm not in favor of spending a lot on reg units when maint costs become an issue. And in this case with high barb activity, I see a spear having a better chance of survival than two warriors.
Oh ok, good points, I wasn't getting at you at all, i just have a different style :)

Tim, can you delete the save you just downloaded and wait until Alan fixes it? He needs to alter ship movement.

Yes I can. I probably should have realized that earlier, but no matter.

Apparently the save has been fixed, so go ahead. If it's still dodgy i suggest you stop.

OK, regot it.

Our bar graph looks really nice though. Keep up the expansion and war is in the mix soon for territory expansion

Just looked at the QSC results. Though we are leading in city count, which is nice, we are way back in contacts/diplomacy. We need to find those other civs. Do we have any curraughs out hunting?

We do have a curragh and galley out searching, but I noticed in my turnset they've been travelling at 1 tile per turn due to a bug in the biq file, so i asked AlanH to fix it, which he has. We should know more civs in the next few turns. I'm impressed with our QSC results too well done guys.

750(0)-MM Camulodunum for growth, MM Agedincum for gold, MM Tolosa for shields

IBT-Entremont warrior->warrior
Alesia library->warrior
Agedincum worker->worker

730(1)-whip temple in Cataractonium
turn off lux due to hooked up dye

IBT-Entremont warrior->worker
Cataractonium temple->worker

710(2)-see a purple border (Iroquois?)

IBT-Entremont worker->warrior
Alesia warrior->worker

690(3)-Meet Iroquois, see other edge of Carthage
They are broke and lack construction
raise lux to 10%

IBT-Japan, India sign peace
Entremont warrior->warrior
Alesia worker->warrior
Richborough worker->library
Verulamium worker->library
Iroquois start ToA

670(4)-zzz

IBT-learn currency, start on mono at minimum (for a second I was thinking of going for republic)
Entremont warrior->warrior
Camulodunum library->market
Gergovia settler->library

650(5)-whip temple in Eboracum (to avoid starvation or 50% lux)
It seems possible we're on the same landmass as Japan
Japan will pay all its gold for currency; I'll wait

IBT-Entremont warrior->market
Alesia warrior->settler
Agedincum worker->library
Eboracum temple->library

630(6)-zzz

IBT-Entremont warrior->warrior
Augustodurum granary->worker

610(7)-Galley sees another border

IBT-Carthage kicks out exploring warrior, curragh
Entremont warrior->warrior
Alesia warrior->market
Trondheim builds ToA

590(8)-Meet India; they have 88g, lack currency
Japan is in anarchy due to their recently discovered monarchy

IBT-China kicks our warrior out
Entremont warrior->warrior
Augustodurum worker->library
Japan starts Great Wall, Hanging Gardens
Carthage, China, India start Great Wall
Delhi builds Great Wall

570(9)-zzz

IBT-Entremont warrior->warrior
Lugdunum library->rax
Japan starts Hanging Gardens

550(10)-zzz

Notes: I think we're ready to start roading the iron
The settler should settle next to the lake

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC0550_01.SAV).

Right on! More contacts! Should we get prebuilds rolling for cathedrals, JS Bach and Sistines? We look to be doing fairly well. If we time our GA we should be able to pull in both wonders and grab some more land.

wonders don't help that much for 100k, but we could use bach for new cities. prebuilds for cath are a good idea, but i'd build libs first. with 3 lux we get more help from the libs, they cost less maintenance too.

Looking good. I believe JJ has it now.

I am up in another game too, and have lots of RL issues.
A switch would be nice.
-jj

OK JJ let us know when you feel up to it and we''ll insert you back in.

So who's gonna take it, barbslinger or el_filet? Let's keep it rolling, we're doing well.

finished my other games this weekend, but couldn't get to this one. i'm not sure i can play tonight, will post in case i play.

took a quick look yesterday, we still have some spots to settle, but we'll need to go to war soon. a couple of warriors are around, i'll add some more. filling some of the better spots before preparing attack to chinese (or do we attack mongols/japanese?). they didn't got ToA, but still are the best target imo.

Yeah we need to get a move on with a bit of :hammer:

But there's no need to rush and do this half-heartedly, we should create a decent stack of GS before we go and hit China. And whilst we're capturing we should be settling in the gaps, and building/whipping temples and libraries in the newly captured cities as priorities.

From now on we should never be at a stage where all our cities have both a temple and library. If they all do, then we should be settling/capturing more cities.

We might want to get the Mongols in on China to weaken them a little, since they're IMO the next logical target.... :)

I can take it tonight if El Filet can not.
Looks like hooking up the iron and getting some GS to set up for war and GA. Keeping the culture building and hopefully get more contacts would be great also.

playing now

550 BC (0):
do some MM
switch camulodunum&lugdunum to settler (we need to build some, more then money. another rax can wait with entremont building warrior every turn)
37g for embassy in karakorum: size 2; settler next turn :); dyes, iron & horses; 4 spears; MoM

IBT:
boot from hannibal
entremont: warrior->warrior
ratae: temple->lib

530 BC (1):
hire scientist, science to 0
found Lindum->temple

IBT:
entremont: warrior->warrior
FP message
alesia: settler->market
cataractonium: worker->lib
lapardum: temple->lib

510 BC (2):
india& japan got monarchy (japan last turn too)

IBT:
entremont: warrior->warrior

IBT:
kicked out by hannibal
entremont: warrior->warrior

IBT:
hannibals boot again
entremont: warrior->warrior
lugdunum: settler->settler
gregovia: lib->settler
indians start HG

450 BC (5):
found Nemausus->temple

IBT:
entremont: warrior->warrior
niagara falls completes GW

IBT:
boot from mao
entremont: warrior->warrior
camulodurum: market->settler

410 BC (7):
move scientist to corrupt city

IBT:
boot from iros
pay japs 50g (avoid dogpile, not worth the trouble)
entremont: warrior->settler
gragovia: settler->market

390 BC (8):
found Curovernum->temple (will soon put more pressure on japanese cities)

IBT:
chinese settler pair moves toward richborough

370 BC (9):
whip lib

IBT:
camulodunum: settler->settler
augustodurum: lib->market
tolosa: temple->lib


notes:
suggest FP in ratae, enables us to move palace later
sent curragh back, hoping to find new civ. how did you knew it's a bay?
we have a stack of 11 vet warriors in alesia to upgrade, but iron isn't connected yet
started some mines on hills, takes forever but we'll need them
one settler ready to found in place (EDIT: the left one), one on way build fishing village
we still need market in entremont and rax somewhere

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_BC0350_01.SAV

:cry: i'm the one who lost our scoring lead :cry:

well, barbslinger will correct that ;) (since he can play, unless tomasjj is ready now)

:cry: i'm the one who lost our scoring lead :cry:
don't worry about that we're still matching or improving on our culture gradient compared to the other teams at this moment so thats all that matters. everything's looking good. haven't looked at the save but i think we're ready to go to war. lets upgrade!!!

barbslinger - itchy trigger fingers
JJ - hovering
M60
monkey
Tim
el fil - can rest for a while

:cry: i'm the one who lost our scoring lead :cry:

well, barbslinger will correct that ;) (since he can play, unless tomasjj is ready now)If tomasjj is ready I would rather wait. I am up in my AWE with about 60 cities to look at and that will take 1 or 2 nights.

On FP I really like Ratae due to liking the idea of jumping the palace somewhere else later. By later I mean after we have gained control of our continent and maybe after that. Jumping it around after that will dramatically speed up builds. I would wait to jump with a leader to the other continent after forming a well defended core over there. I saw no mention of the cash we have for Gallic upgrades but at single scientist I assume we have lots. I favor going after China now before they get to thier UU. The Rider is 4.3.2 while the Keshik is 4.2.2(ignore terrain). I do want to get Mongols involved in the war and then take them out right after. Hopefully we can pay tech and/or cash for the alliance so we get a minimal rep hit. I would really like to wipe both of them out during GA production of gallics with some markets completing too.

iirc we have >600g. i tried to pay the mongols for a MA against the chinese, they refused even with us paying all we had back then. i guess that will change once we declared war.

i'm surprised about corruption. it's not that bad. i even thought about building some courts to make our outer cities productive.

we need more rax. i built markets in most core cities and changed them to settler to avoid wasting food for 8-6 cycle. suggest to poprush lib in richborough soon and build rax. spit out more warriors from entremont & alesia before iron is connected, we'll be on min. science for a while.

Hey.
I can play in two days time. If no one else wants it, that is.
jj

I am finally through the AWE. I can play tomorrow and post Friday morning.

I thought I had brought the word doc with me to work but my thumbdrive only had the sav file. I'll update the text when I get home tonight.

Summary of turns was building more buildings through whipping and builds, completed iron road and upgraded about 16 gallics. Sent 8 gallics towards Chengdu, 4 GS towards the 2 western China cities and after Japan declared on turn 9 sent 2 towards the sword that burned a just planted ice town in the south. There are 2 other GS patrolling near the core where a Jap ship was moored. We are a monarchy and I had just sold that to China to get them into anarchy so the war would be smoother. Met America, England, Joanie and Ragnar.
My suggestion was to declare before IT and get Mongols on the Chinese for Currency or gpt and Iro's on Japan to divert them. We could also wait on Japan to give peace to concentrate on China / Mongols.

Ok. I got it.
Turns will be tonight.

So the plan is:
War with China. Ally with the mongols against them.
If possible get Iro to war against japan.

Keep expanding and building culture builds...

More?
Something I need to remember?

jj

I looked at our graph and it seems that other teams prosecuted their war before us due to the scores ramping with new citizens. I would keep all towns seized due to our culture and rush a temple. I'm thinking taking Chengdu and then on to Beijing. We have 2 settlers sitting close to the front that we can settle in between other China towns. Getting the Iros involved against Japan is a 2 edged sword. It would take the heat off but the downside is cost and having to split our attack objectives. If you can get rid of the Jap town on the ice corner without having to get the Iro's in I would go for that.
Pump GS and markets during the GS and if possible prebuild cathedrals near the end of the war.
I was really hoping the Japs would stay away so we could concentrate on our continent. Then it is off to Japan.

Have a look at our culture! Now we need more towns!

Erm... aren't we obliged to stay in Despotism until we get to Communism dur to the variant?

Yes we are. I believe a replay is in order.

Damn, I was thinking that was the variant, but could not remember last night. I saved right before I revolted. I'll have to replay from there. It was around turn 7. I can have it back at about 9pm tonight.

okei.... i will hang out.

Actually I should have it up sooner than 9pm pst. I get home around 6:30 so probably around 8pm. Sorry guys. I'll replay to match the log except for the 2 turn anarchy.

Barbslinger –350bc


Preturn – Swap August to rax for more military coming up. Also rush the lib in Verul to get on a rax. Swap Camul to a worker pump, 2-2. Our iron does not complete for 8. I’ll get another worker on it. Those furs and incense China and Mongols have look like they should be ours. Richborough can rush a lib next turn so I turn up the food, it should build a rax for the upcoming war. Lindum can rush a temple next turn. I think on war planning I’ll bring the Mongols in and head straight to Beijing to get his core first. Gergovia goes shield heavy to get the market in 9 instead of, I think, 15.

IT – Chinese settler pair turn around.
Ent – Settler>Spear, Lug-Settler>Rax, Verul-Lib>Rax, Japanese complete HG in Kyoto.

(1) 330BC – Not much but moving workers around. Found one mining a plains and stopped that to prepare both iron and roads to the front. Rushed Lindum temple and Richborough lib.

IT – Alesia- Market>Spear, Camul – Wkr>Wkr, Rich-Lib>Rax, Lindum-Temple>Rax.

(2) 310BC – Moving workers.

IT – China demands currency and backs down. Japan moves 2 galleys towards our eastern holdings. Carthage got currency.

(3) 290BC – Iron in 3 now. Find the Americans up the northern coast. Abe is up Monarchy. Get 45g from Mao for currency. Not worth much anymore. We have over 1000g.

IT – Entremont-spear>Spear, Camul-Wkr>Wkr.

(4) 270BC – Whip Nemausus temple. Moving workers. Spot another border.

IT – Alesia-Spear>Spear, Nemausus-temple>lib.

(5) 250BC – We meet Elizabeth and trade construction and currency for monarchy. Move workers and revolt for a 2 turn anarchy. Adjust cities for anarchy. I also saved right before I revolted because I can’t remember if we are allowed to be monarchs. Is this the game where we can only go to feudal? Cancel that. This is where the replay begins.

IT – Iron completes. Elizabeth asks us to leave. Camul-Wkr>Wkr, Burdigala-Granary> Lib. Japanese settle Ise on ice tip.

(6) 230BC - Upgrade 14 Gallics to go play with leaving 348 in the bank.

IT – Ent-Spear>Spear, August-Rax>Gallic

(7) 210BC –Move the gallics forward to ‘meet’ Mao. Isca founded near clams on ice. Hmmm.

IT – Alesia-Spear>GS, Lug-Rax>GS, Camu-Wkr>Wkr. Veru-Rax>Market.
Japanese :edit, does not: send a sword out from Ice town.

(8) 190BC – Gallics move up to China border.

IT – Ent-Spear>Spear,Coruv-Temple>Lib.

(9) 170BC –We meet Joanie and Ragnar. Whip a lib in Cataract. Swap August to settler.

IT – Richborough-Rax>GS, Gergovia-Mkt>Rax, Cataract-Lib>Rax.

(10) 150BC – Shuffle troops for war to be declared next turn. Sell Monarchy to China for 52g so he will be in Anarchy when we attack.

We have 8 GS and a sword for China’s Chengdu. 4 GS for Hangchow. He will be in Anarchy so now is the time. It is war time!

Cool, good setup. :thumbsup: Ready to take us into China JJ?

Remember to declare before we have any units inside the borders, and we can probably buy the Mongols into the war once we've declared, with either Currency or Monarchy.

And keep the cities and culture coming!

Remember to take the updated save from the submission page, the one in barbslingers post is the old one i think...

I am ready... :)
And got it.
JJ

What about the FP?
Ratae was mentioned earlier.
What's the plan? Building it there, but after we get the library in?
-jj

Preturn 150BC:

Looking good. Ready for China.
I see that we have peace with Japan, so no need to go that way allying with Iro now.
Thats nice. One front war.
Upgrade one vet warrior in Lugdunum.

Declare on China.
We sign alliance with Mongols for Currency. We also get 25g.
Move northern GS-gang across, Chengdu targeted.

IT:
China moves two warriors across near our GS stack at Lindum.
Viking now have Feudalism. They laugh when I try to tempt them with Monarchy and some loot.

1 - 130BC:
Moving towards the targets.
Western front need a couple of more GS imo.

IT:
China attacks Lindum with archer and warrior. Our GS and warrior stands firm.
We enter our GA.
Japs show us a sword near Ise.

2 - 110BC:
Attack on Chengdu.
We beat the two spears there without loss.
7 Redhaired GS cross the Yangtse, towards Beijing.
2 stay back in Chengdu to console the civilians there.
Decide to take Macao before Hangchow as I dont want any Chinamen to come towards our wear cities in

the west.
On second thoughts, that would mean attacking across the river.
I dont want that, so it is Hangchow. Splitting their cities up is nice.
Besides mongols should take care of some business down there too. 4 GS ready at the gates now.
No library-whipping to be had in our cities, but I whip temple in Glanum. One turn late.
Only 6 turns to be gained on mono by turning it up. We make 111gpt now, so thats a nice bonus.

IT:
Japs and Carthage also have Feudalism now.


3 - 90BC:
Attack on Hangchow.
We take it losing nothing. They had two spears there.
Build set to temples.
Settlers moving in to fill the holes.
China seems weak. I havent seen a horsie yet, and we are ready to attack Beijing next turn.
No sight of the mongol hordes either.

IT:
No more resistance.
Carthage building Sun Tzu.

4 - 70 BC:
Attack Canton.
We take it without losses. 2 spears there too.
We get a worker on top.
Attack Beijing.
We take it. Lose one GS. Take out 3 spears and a horse. Get 3 workers.
Their Capital moved to Shanghai.
China will talk now, but I see no reason to stop now, even if we can get a couple of cities for peace. That will hurt our rep if we walk out on the alliance with the mongols right?

IT:
Nothing to report.

5 - 50 BC:
Segusio founded.
Chaingang working on roads to bring all the bounty back to the Celtic core...
Strategy meeting in celt war council.
Since mongols havent done anything in the south we make a rally point in the mountains near Macao to nick it swiftly. That mountain range is slow to cross...
Forces near Beijing need healing for a turn or two. Then we march on Shanghai.
Finally we see a mongol horse near Macao. We have a GS there lurking and two more coming.
Hopefully we can nick it when the mongols have softened their D.
Start a harbor. Some trading can be done, and I want to upgrade our curragh to settle the wood-island towards the japs.

IT:
Many more building Sun Tzu.
Richborough roit.. Sorry. Moved a GS out.

6 - 30 BC:
Moving troops. Healing.
Whip a temple and a lib.
Switch some builds to Markets. Also turn on research for one turn as I somehow managed to lose our wise scientist last turn. Just to make sure we stay on the path for mono. We can afford it as we have 1100 gold.
Marketplace build in Ratae can be switched to FP, the city now has a lib.

IT:
zzzz

7 - 10 BC:
Attack on Tsingtao.
We take out two spears, losing one GS, redlining two more.
A bit of bad luck, but no complaints as we have been in love with the RNG so far.
Only an archer left there now, and more troops coming in.
Leaderfishing attempt, no success.
We can now trade with Carthage.

IT:
Jesus is born.
Nothing besides that one.

8 - 10 AD:
We take Tsingtao - no losses.
Attack on Macao.
We take it, two spears one archer - lose one GS.
In total I think we have 4 elites now. In the next 10 turns maybe a leader or two will rise.
Would be nice for our FP.
Found Rutupiae.
We got ****loads of cash now, so I boost research on Mono to 80%, lux on 10. No one has it, and we can have it in 8 now.
Cathedrals would be nice for our culture.
Rush a lib.

IT:
India wants our galley to leave. We leave.

9 - 30 AD:
We meet the Babs.
They got engineering, and 20-ish towns.
We got 6 GS outside the new China capital, Shanghai. It has grown to 7, which is beat.
Still, I want to try a couple of GS's to see how it goes. Max so far for defense has been 3 SM 1Arc.
We take Shanghai. Lose nothing. They had 4 spears and a cat. One promotion.
I reckon we can turn westwards the next turn, after sacking Nanking on the tip, towards Xinjian, the new capital.Encore.
I move troops out of Beijing, westwards. Flipchance is low, if it flips we take it back the next turn.

IT:
The ungreatful people of Shanghai riot against their new, superior leaders.
How rude!

10 - 50 AD:
Attack on Nanking.
We encounter a super-spear after talking out one. Superman and an archer remains.
We should be able to nick it next turn.
There are some troops marching on towards Xinjian.
Only the babs have engineering, I try to get a price, but we arent even close with 1000g + 110gpt.
Hopefully we can trade Mono when it gets in(6 turns).
Whip two libs.
I have set many markets up as prebuilds for cath, or just markets.
Ratae can be switched to FP.

-----
good luck to the next player!

JJ

And a little pic from the early days of our attack:

And the save.....

I believe it's back to me. So got it and will play tonight. Plan to finish off the Chinese on the mainland and hopefully we can pick up some offshore towns in a treaty.

Well done JJ I didn't think we'd be able to execute Mao that quickly!!

One thing I did notice is we don't really have a lot of settlers out filling in gaps at the perimetre. Our outlying cities are beginning to get more and more useless so we may as well just ICS them, mass irrigate and poprush everything we need. And once we get Monotheism perhaps we can switch some of our city builds to caths.

Good luck M60. Its your call as to whether we sign treaty with Mao before the alliance is up. We should definitely be looking to extinguish the Mongols before they get their Keshiks though (hopefully start war before they get Feudalism, although this may be tricky).

Dont forget that barbslinger set us up nicely here. :goodjob:
The mongols dont have feud yet.
Agree that we need more settlers to fill the gaps.
In 5 turns or so we can whip temples in the newly take china towns.... which leads me to one question: are we allowed to join slaved in those cities, or others, and whip culture?
Sounds a bit dodgy, but is it within the rules? :confused:
jj

From the GOTM rules:
Pop-rushing
In despotism and communism it is possible to use cities purely for unit rush building. Workers can be added to such a city and then the city can then use them to rush build units. This is disallowed, so do not create these kind of cities. Pop rushing one or two regular citizens to finish a building or to build a unit is within the rules and the spirit of the game. What is against the rules is joining workers to cities for the purpose of pop rushing.

There's been some discussion on this in the maintenance thread.

Cheers.
Yeah, I saw the notes in the maintenance thread.
Good to know that we still are within the rules, as I didnt join the chaingangs and whip. I just whipped them to build a road through the mountains :p

The save at 250AD (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD0250_01.SAV)

Pre-turn: It’s a 10-turn alliance with Mongols against China, so plan is to capture what we can from China on the mainland, then see about a war against Mongolia.

IBT- Chinese archer kills a GS. Not the way I wanted to start my set. A couple Sun builds announced. Start on a couple settler builds.

Turn 1 (70AD) E.GS kills vet spear, Nanking falls. GS kills V.archer (2/4).
Lose E.GS and VGS to reg spears at Xinjian. Kill one spear with GS#3. One spear still defending. V.GS kills R.Archer.

IBT- Lose another GS to a Chinese horse by Xinjian. Chinese galley lands another horse.

Turn 2 (90AD) V.GS kills R.Spear at Xinjian. E.GS kills R.Spear. Lose V.GS to V.Horse. Got him redlined FWIW.

IBT-More Sun builds.

Turn 3 (110AD)- Lose a R.GS attacking a R.Archer. RNG really stinks this time around. :mad: V.GS kills a R.Spear at Tiensin. Rush temple in Chengdu. Drop off settler on desert isle.

IBT- nothing

Turn 4 (130AD) Kill R.Spear and V.Horse at Tiensin and capture town. :) Found Monguntiacum on desert isle. Rush temple in Beijing. Science to 60%, mono in 2.

IBT- Chinese archer dies against a V.GS at Tatung.

Turn 5 (150AD) V.GS kills R.Spear @ Tatung. E.GS (4/5) kills R.Spear and Tatung falls. :)

IBT- Mono in, Theo in 13.

Turn 6 (170AD) Move a couple GS to Tiensin in hopes of getting it before Mongols do. Switch to some cathedral builds. Land a V.GS @ Shantung.

IBT- R.Archer dies against V.GS @ Shantung.

Turn 7 (190AD) Try a couple attacks @ Tiensen. Two V.GS are redlined. We get a R.Spear. One remains. Rush temple in Canton. Offload 2 GS @ Shantung.

IBT- Quiet

Turn 8 (210AD) E&V.GS kill 2 R.Spears @ Shantung, town taken. :)

IBT- Quiet

Turn 9 (230AD) 2 V.GS kill 2 R.Spears and Tientsin falls. :) The continent is now clear.

IBT- Quiet

Turn 10 (250AD) Rush a temple in Hangchow. Send settler on auto to move 3 NE of Ullanbattar. He’ll be there in 4. Lux from 10 to 0%. Don’t need it ATM. Score 1014 and done.

Post turn. We’re trying to have it both ways, and that’s a problem. If we want the culture, we have to get through more cathedral builds. That’s what I focused on. I know we don’t want Mongols with Keshiks, but if we want the culture, and filling in more open land, then we have to allow for the appropriate builds. Really shouldn’t be a problem with Mongols as long as we bring in Carthage.

Now as far as making peace with China, here’s the deal. We can end the alliance with Mongols now, and we can get Kaifeng, Anyang and Yangchow from Mao for peace. Keep in mind we have to balance that against captured towns flipping back to China. Tientsin is the only town in rebellion. We still have monopoly on Mono and can trade for Feudalism and in all likelihood engineering in a 2-fer.

Cool, I gots it. I'll probably play tomorrow, or maybe even tonight if I'm feeling scrappy.

I'll concentrate on caths and settling more cities, but if I've got a stack of GS just sitting around... :mischief:

Great work guys! Well, quite a conundrum. Caths or Mongols. If we can hold off letting the Mongols have Mono, I think they are behind in tech, we should be able to finish most caths in core and then turn to them. Hopefully we can get China lands ICS'ed to get more culture.

You know, looking at the graphs, I would almost want to suggest continuing against China. Those towns on the northern landmass can not be that well defended and it is a sizeable mass to get temples and libs in. Check the timing on cath builds so they can get back to military production. I'm thinking horses now to upgrade to knights with our cash. We will need speed to continue the blitzkrieg. I would really like to have Mongols, Carthage and Japan wrapped up soon. Japan and Mongols would be next with the Sams and Keshecks coming. Back to full military after caths?

i think we should make sure to fill out the lands we conquer before we think about advancing further. if we can combine that with hammering china/mongols, that would be even nicer. let's get something out of china before we destroy them - if they got something useful.

We could continue war against China, but we could also get those towns through peace deal. I agree we want to start creating a stronghold on the other continent though.

I think Japan are a bit too strong for us at the moment, especially as it would require a beach landing. I would tempted to take out the civs one by one, Mongols before they get their Keshiks, Carthage and Iroquois with our knights, and Japan with cavs. Then the next continent :devil:

There certainly are opportunities to peacefully expand across some open terrain near Mao's new home. That's why I think if the flip risk is minimal, making the deal for three new towns is well worth considering.

Another tidbit is that Mongols were still a Despotism last time I checked. Since we caught China in anarchy, maybe lightning strikes twice? ;)

But we will need more troops up at the front. Temujin has a number of swords and horsies.

*Save is here* (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD0350_01.SAV)

Basic summary - We have Theology, Feudalism, and Engineering, and currently researching Education (14 turns). We have all Chinese towns (through conquest and peace deal), except Paoting (capital). There was lots of culture whipping and a few more towns settled.

Decided not to start on Mongols just yet, since there was lots of culture and settlers to be built. I've started to produce horsies for upgrade when we research or trade for chivalry, hopefully soon.

I've got Entremont building Sistine Chapel, since its at 20spt, and i didn't want to waste 10spt if it was building horsies. Sistine's would be cool to have, but not sure we'll get it, maybe it can switch to Leo's or Knights Templar. Oh, and we overtook Japan scorewise so we're in first place in our little world :)

0 - 250AD - Whip temples in Tsingtao and Macao. Get a sweet trade with Vikings - Give them Monotheism and get Engineering, 53gpt, and 146gold! Trade Mono and Eng to England for Feudalism, 6gpt, 26g. :) I increase science to give us Theology in 7 turns.

IBT - Temujin asks us to continue with the alliance. We decline. He remains polite.

1 - 260AD - Land some swords next to Anyang. Some mainland troop shuffling.

IBT - Golden Age ends. :(

2 - 270AD - Whip temple in Nanking. Whip cathedral in Camoludunum. Whip cathedral in Burdigala. Capture Anyang + 2 slaves without loss. Peace with China, and get 1 gold + all their spare towns (Yangchow, Ningpo, Kaifeng), leaving them with just their capital, Paoting.

IBT - Mongols ask us for alliance again. Declined.

3 - 280AD - Whip Library in Lindum. Lots of microing.

IBT - Nothing of note.

4 - 290AD - Whip library in Nemausus.

IBT - Zilch.

5 - 300AD - Settle Glevum NE of Ulaanbatar. Settle Axima in the desert. Whip temple in Xinjan.

IBT - Iroquois bump our galley.

6 - 310AD - Whip temple in Tatung. Whip cathedral in Curovernum.

IBT - Nothing.

7 - 320AD - Whip cathedral in Eboracum.

IBT - China and Mongols sign peace treaty.

8 - 330AD - Learn Theology, start researching Education.

IBT - France bumps our galley.

9 - 340AD - Whip temple in Tientsin. Whip Library in Beijing.

IBT -

10 - 350AD - Settle Deva on ice, south coast. Settle Lezoux N of Richborough. Settler on way to west coast, 3 NE of Tientsin.

Score 1191, Culture 6216, +197cpt.

Notes: There is a settler N of Lezoux which can settle 1 SQ NE of where he is. There is another settler N of Alesia on his way to somewhere in the northern desert, but if you want to move him somewhere else Tim feel free. :)

We're putting a nice culture squeeze on Kagoshima to the east. If we could get it to flip, that would be amazing for us in the future.

Also, I noticed there is a possible lux trade with iroquois: spice and dye for wool. Not amazing, but its something. Advantages, extra happy face, plus a friend in Iroquois for time being. Disadvantage - Two happy faces for Iroquois who are quite powerful anyway...

Got it. I should play tonight.

Also, I noticed there is a possible lux trade with iroquois: spice and dye for wool. Not amazing, but its something. Advantages, extra happy face, plus a friend in Iroquois for time being. Disadvantage - Two happy faces for Iroquois who are quite powerful anyway...

Hmmm. Wonder if we couldn't leverage that into an alliance against Mongols. Then maybe Hiawatha brings in Carthage on our side. :ar15:

I really like the progress we are making. However it seems our graph is falling behind in culture now too. We should jump when our 1000yr bonus kicks in on some of our earlier builds and with our new towns. Our score is falling behind considerably though. We need more lux bad, for more happy faces. Perhaps if affordable we can raise lux slider to get more happy faces. Each happy face is worht a point/turn. I think more conquering is ABSOLUTELY in order. I don't think we have much to worry about on flips with our amount of culture so let's get some more towns and cheap temples building.

I love the Kagoshima squeeze! If we can get that town it would be a fantastic launch point for a future Japan attack, especially if they are fighting on the far border.

For our next war, we may want to get some workers closer to the battle. A forest chopping team per captured town gets us temples quicker.

I see there are some trades to be made.
Iro, India and Japs all offer something worth considering for our lux.

The squeeze on the Jap town is a nice one.
Maybe we could place cities on the wooden cape, and also between the cow and the river next to Kagoshima. They also have some iron there that we would like.
Two settlers sent over there would speed our future invasion of Japan.

- We can also speed up the FP by a turn by switching the goats to Ratae. I suggest doing that.
- Also micromanage between Entremont, Georgiva and Cataractonium to get more shields in Entremont for sistines.

- And Deva is building a warrior... switch to temple?
- Also we can put in a town north of Beijing in the jungle if we like.

We can also start prebuilding Unis in some military towns, as long as we dont have happiness problems and need the colosseums.

About the overall war-issue, I havent got a clue whats best to get 100k. So I leave that to the more experienced ones on our team. :)

jj

I think Japan are a bit too strong for us at the moment, especially as it would require a beach landing. I would tempted to take out the civs one by one, Mongols before they get their Keshiks, Carthage and Iroquois with our knights, and Japan with cavs. Then the next continent :devil:

This is the strategy I was thinking about as well. Just create a series of cascading alliances, forcing each opponent to fight on two fronts. All we need to do is keep moving west.

I agree with a lot of the prior sentiments. Another thing I was thinking of was that since we are going to be despots for another 11/13 techs we may want to disconnect a town or two to churn out some warriors for minding the towns so the GS can be freed up. Or, probably better, dedicate a couple to spear production. Also a dedicated settler pump.
I do want to get back to warring ASAP. Pick somebody to get some land from.

How's it going Tim?
Any progress?
jj

I've got 3 turns done; I've been busy with homework recently.

350(0)-Notice lots of 0% flip chances on MapStat...the joy of being cultured
Annoying, can't get specialist farms in corrupt cities because irrigation is wasted
MM some cities, switch two builds to culture

IBT-Agenincum settler->cathedral
Cataractonium settler->colosseum

360(1)-Oops, forgot to turn research back on (was checking deals); higher research can make up
This is a very strange landmass (it appears to be all connected)

IBT-Camulodunum horse->horse
Gergovia horse->horse
Segusio temple->library

370(2)-Whip temple in Anyang
Found Noviomagus, start on temple

IBT-Burdigala settler->colosseum
Ratae Coritanorum forbidden palace->cathedral
Tolosa settler->colosseum
Anyang temple->library
Babylon starts Leo's

380(3)-Sell theology to France for 38gpt, 100g, invention
sell it to England for gems, wool, 3g
sell it to Vikings for 95g, 24gpt
sell invention (I'd rather have them cascade to Leo's) to India for 13gpt, 24g, republic (might as well get it)
we're now making 21gpt at 100% research
Belatedly whip temple in Shantung

IBT-Alesia granary->settler
Shantung temple->library (may want to switch to harbor)

390(4)-Whip temple in Monguntiacum

IBT-Gergovia horse->court
Mongunticam temple->harbor
Kyoto builds Sun Tzu's
Babylon builds Leo's
Trondheim builds Sistine :(

400(5)-Waste 122 shields switching to MDI
Whip temple in Axima

IBT-Entremont MDI->MDI
Camulodunum horse->court
Axima temple->library

410(6)-Whip temple in Glevum

IBT-Alesia settler->settler
Glevum temple->library

420(7)-Found Arausio, Durocortorum, start on temples

IBT-Entremont MDI->court
Richborough cathedral->court
India starts Knights Templar

430(8)-Whip library in Canton by means of MDI and granary
Found New Entremont, New Alesia, start on temples

IBT-Canton library->cathedral
Verulamium colosseum->court
Curovernum aqueduct->court

440(9)-Found New Lugdunum, start on temple

IBT-Learn education, start on astronomy (not sure what would be best, so feel free to change this)
Alesia settler->settler
Ratae Coritanorum cathedral->university
America starts Knight Templars

450(10)-Whip temple in Lezoux
Whip library in Shanghai by means of granary
Switch courts to universities

Notes: India will give chivalry, 12g, 81gpt for education

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD0450_01.SAV).

Looks like that set was all about building city improvements. Nicely done in that regard, but we should get to work on Mongols and start expanding the land once again.

Why was theology sold around so that we lost out on sistines?

Why was theology sold around so that we lost out on sistines?
380(3)-Sell theology to France for 38gpt, 100g, invention
sell it to England for gems, wool, 3g
sell it to Vikings for 95g, 24gpt
sell invention (I'd rather have them cascade

I'm thinking Bentley wanted the cash and after looking at the board it looked juicy. I'm hung over right now. so I don't really know that it matters. Did we have a city on prebuild? It would have been nice for the Japs or CArthage to get it though. We need the Mongols and then the Japanese in the bag. Please chime in if any team members have a different perspective on game goals. It is conquer time and we have spent 20 turns playing around. Our GS's are now nearly worthless. The Mongols should be gone and we should have 60 towns. Settler pump and military. Let's take the world and then rush culture in them.
4 counquered towns with a temple / lib a pop is worth far mor than a cathedral. HAs everyone hear read Charis / T-Hawk/ Arathorn/ SirPleb 100K Culture victories. Conquer the planet and the sort the 100+ cities culture.

OK Sistines isn't a massive deal really, I just started building it cos there wasn't really anything else worthwile to build in Entremont with a 20spt production rate.

We should start on Mongolia this turn, I looked at the save, and if we can pull all out GS out of our towns onto the Mongol border then we can easily take the three border towns on the first turn. I suggest we ask Carthage to enter the arena, and hopefully they will disconnect the Mongolian iron for us. Then it'll just be a case of ploughing through and keeping the momentum going into Carthage, iroquois, japan. By the time we enter Japan, we should have Cavalry, so they'll be a breeze.

Suggest we either research Chivalry or Gunpowder. The top half of the tree is fairly useless to us in this game, and we will easily be able to trade for it. Some civs have Chiv already, so either trade for it or lets research it ourselves, but we need knights ASAP. Our GS are OK for Mongolia, but will probably be close to useless against Carthage.

Barbslingers right, we need more whippable towns, lets go! :)

Who's playing?

our starting roster:
M60
chunkymonkey
TimBentley
tomasjj
barbslinger
El Filet

so i suggest barbslinger takes it. i can play thursday earliest.
EDIT: make that friday

Got it. Will play tomorrow.

The GR3 turns took 8 hours last night. I will play and post tonight late. Looking over the save I think it is time for some Mongol annihilation. They are still lacking chivalry. I will be trading for chivalry and getting after them with Japan help. I'm thinking Japan so that they don't sneak attack :fingers crossed: and also to get some trade from them and to get their forces cruising far from home. then when Mongols are nearly gone going right for Carthage. This time the war should continue until the southern hemisphere is gone. Heading for Communism!

I'll be gone until a week from Monday.

Barbslinger –450AD


Preturn – Pull the trigger on the trades, India gets Ed for Chiv + 80gpt + 80g, Vikings get Ed for 44gpt and 40g. Upgrade all horses and change a lot of builds to knights. I would also like a Rax near the front to funnel the gallics thru for MDI upgrade which costs zero. Investigate Mongols Ulaanbatar and see 2 pike, 2 spears a galley and a settler. I can only muster 4 GS to attack if I was to declare this turn. Send a load of units to declare next turn and hit enter. I want to declare next turn and then attack getting Japan and others in on it.

IT – Lots of builds, some rushed.

(1) 460 AD – Build Paris embassy and see pyramids , iron, horses and 6 pikes. Declare on Mongols. Build embassy with Carthage and they have no resources. Fighting the Mongols should deplete them. Indian embassy has horses, 3 iron and 2 lux. Building WE’ with 4 pikes at home. India declares for Spices and we get 100g back. Carthage delares for theology –17g and Japan for spices and 6gpt. Hopefully he won’t backstab us. We take Ulaan winning 4 losing 1 elite to a 3hp spear. Take down 1 pike in Danzslg and retreat 1. Start sending some workers towards the front. We also got 4 slaves.

IT – Build some more knights.

(2) 470AD – Realize that there is a rax in Ulaan and upgrade the 3 wounded GS to MDI’s. Take Dalan and move knight on Darhan.

IT – Not much except Mongols have some swords coming.

(3) 480AD – Can’t quite take Darnan. Next turn. I’m thinking we should irrigate outer cities getting 1spt to use the citizens for both rushing and scientists/cash.

IT- Not to much. We beat a sword.

(4) 490AD – Upgrade a load more GS’s. Take Darhan. 4 MDI’s and an E-GS next to Mandagolvie for next turn.

(5) 500AD – Take another city, Mandy.

(6) 510AD – Take Tabriz. Many Civs building KT. Swap Ent to KT fot giggles, can swap to Uni in 12 if needed. Incense is online thru a colony.

(7) 520AD – Lost Mandy to a 3hp archer on IT. We had a 4hp MDI on the hill. Retake Mandy. 4 MDI’d ready for Almarikh.

(8) 530AD – Lost an MDI to an MDI near Almarikh. Watch a Mongol MDI lose to a Numidian standing on the Mongol iron. Arrange troops.

(9) 540AD – Take Almarikh. Built or building temples in new Mongol holdings through chops. Turn down Astro this turn.

(10) 550AD – Astro > Guns. There are no beakers in it so it can be changed. I think taking over the world and building a lot of temples/libs through cavs will get 100k quicker. Take Karakorum of it’s 3 MDI and take out 2 other MDI’s. All looks clear. There are 2 knights looking at Choy.

In Darhan I rushed 3 citizens to get the lib 1st. The temple is easier. Continue the wars! We can get close to full price from Japan for Astro. Copernicus is in the bag if we don’t get KT. I might hold Astro. Just afraid Japs will demand. Getting a worker over the cow and grass on Japans continent would help too.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Barb550ad.jpg

I guess I am up, eh?
So I got it.
Looks on our graph like we stayed peaceful for too long btw.
Its on to Carthage after Temujin bends over, right?
jj

Looks on our graph like we stayed peaceful for too long btw.
Its on to Carthage after Temujin bends over, right?
jjI agree we stayed at peace to long. It looks like other teams took different tactics. They probably concentrated on conquest after initial temple builds while we concentrated on small conquests and major culture pushes. I think we should conquer the world now. Hopefully get Carthage and Iros with an overload of knights and take out the world with cavs. We should be able to trade for the upper branch of techs and then beeline to commie when the time comes. Lets get our corrupt towns irrigated to provide lots of scientists. Carthage is in our territory on the iron and he needs iron so hopefully he will declare. Do not sign in the iro's or India when declring on carthage. Carthage has no iron or horses and should fold like a deck of cards.
What would be nice is an army. Also our north island holdings will need some support. We need that toe-hold.
Lets get the near conquest and then rearrange cities for max culture push. We will probably end up abandoning crappy mountain filled towns for lusher grass filled ones.
Use the mountains for defense. Let's steam roll!

Hi guys my internet has gone down at home until Wednesday so i'm not going to be around.

Everything looks good though. I agree we should stay at war until we reach domination limit now.

Pre-turn:
Switch to a settler build to get a city on the peninsula on the Japanese side.
Future beach-head. I hope this wont make Togu declare on us too soon.
We can trade with Japan now, dyes for 15gpt and 18g. Since they have the samurai we need to wait until MT to take them out.
So I trade with them. France offer similar money, but a good relation with Japan, for now, is better.
Whip temple in Arausio.

IT:
Iroq building KTemplar.
Resistance ends.

1- 560AD:

We are moving in on more mongolian cities, but lacking a bit of punch.
Take out a pike in Choybalsan, get upgrade to elite.

IT:
zzzzz

2 - 570AD:
Resting troops. Pick off a couple of mongol counter MI's.

IT:
India and England sign MA against Mongols.
We lose gems and wool. Doesnt matter, our people are a bunch of happy bunnies.

3 - 580AD:
Whip temple in Ulaanbaatar.
Whip two more temples and two libs.
Take out two pikes in TaTu, losing nothing.

IT:
Lots of new builds.

4 - 590AD:
Powder in 3, Templar in 6.
We take TaTu.
Whip a library.

IT:
Iroqouis and Japan sign MA against Mongols.

5 - 600AD:
We take Erdenet.
Trade dyes to France for 12gpt + 39g.

IT:
China and Japan sign MA against Mongols.
We get gunpowder. Research set for Chemistry (10 turns).
Washington complete Knights Templar. Ouch.
Naturally, no saltpeter anywhere within our borders...
Japan and India has saltpeter. Knock knock, Ghandi...in due time.

6 - 610AD:
Switch Entremont to Copernicus, coming in 9 turns.
We take Kazan. 4 elite wins this turn, but no leader luck...
Whip some temples and a lib.
Found New Verulamium on the Jap-side.

IT:
Mongols and Carthage sign peace.
We are continuously getting more and more influentual.

7 - 620AD:
We take Choybalsan.
Mongols down to 3 cities now.
Start moving troops towards Carthagenian borders.

IT:
Vikings show us two swords on the northern continent. We regroup the little we got there to cover the undefended city they are drooling on.

8 - 630 AD:
We take Tsetserleg.
Trade silks to Japan for 32gpt and 50g.
Reckon it will still be a while until we are onto them.

IT:
French are building Johann's. Now that is a nice wonder.

9 - 640 AD:
Get ready for Carthage.
Gather knights near Choybalsan.
Whip a temple.

IT:
Vikings declare war on us.
They are after our little colonies in the north.
Vikings are also building Johann's.

10 - 650AD:
Found New Georgiva on top if incense.Trade incense to France for 23gpt and 20g.
Whip a caravel to aid troop movement over to northern continent.
Regroup some more knights to go north. We should send a couple over to attempt to hold the cities since we have two silks there.
Japs wont be happy if the trade deal is broken.
I am undecided about abandoning or leaving New Richborough undefended for the vikings.
I think our troops should withdraw since we will lose them and the city anyway.
Also a worker is in a galley on the way to japanese coastal cow.
Lots of knights unmoved are on Carthagenian border.
We also have two outside the mongol capital ready to take it out, leaving them with one little city further down the coast from us.
We are running negative on the research on chemistry. This turn some gpt deal expired so welose more than before. 99gpt. this can of course be adjusted.
I say we are ready to make war with Carthago now, but next player can decide.
Alliance against the mongols expire the next turn, and we soon have Copernicus (5 turns) so we can trade astronomy if we like.

jj

I believe el filet is up now.

i won't have time to play this one today, so feel free to swap in case you can M60.

The save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD0750_01.SAV)

Preflight- This may not be a popular move, but trade Gandhi Astronomy for an alliance against the Vikings, Music Theory, Printing Press, and 1 gold. Gandhi goes gracious. Then trade Hammy Music Theory for alliance against Vikings and 19 gold. That puts two Republics at war with Ragnar. Also may save New Richborough. Astronomy to Japan for ivory, 110gold and 52gpt. That will slow down his research somewhat.

IBT- Alliance with India works perfectly as the Vikings change direction and attack Kolhapur. Mongols and India sign peace.

Turn 1 (660AD) Tell Hannibal to get his people out of our territory. He complies. Mongol capital of Chinan has a reg pike and spear. Both lose and Chinan gets auto-razed by our two knights. Conduct an espionage mission on Leptis Magna. Forbidden Palace with temple and library. Defended by vet and reg NM. Does it for me. Declare war on Carthage.

Two elite knights win against both defenders of Leptis Magna. We capture the place, no gold. :) In the vicinity, elite knight kills reg LB. Vet knight kills reg MI. Vet knight kills reg LB. Then 2 vet knights kill reg LB/NM pair.

IBT- Carthage captures the one cat we had, but will get it back as he just moves it into open territory. Vikes capture Kolhapur from India and kill one of our GS. Japan destroys the Mongols. Resistance ends in Leptis Magna.

Turn 2 (670AD) Get the cat back. Vet MI kills Vet LB. Elite knight kills reg LB. Elite GS kills reg MI. 2 vet knights get 2 reg LBs. Don’t see that we can bowl over Carthage quite so easily, so I do bring Hiawatha into an alliance and 15 gold for Music Theory.

IBT- New Richborough falls to Scandanavia. :( Indian galley is attacked by Vike galley that sinks. Japan demand spices. I give it to him. He's now on my list.

Turn 3 (680AD) Attack 2 hp NM that survives attack by our knight who goes red. Second elite knight gets him. Still no promote.

IBT- China and Babylon ally against Vikes.

Turn 4 (690AD) Just move some units around and heal a few units in Leptis. Will get moving again next turn.

IBT- Copernicus comes in. :) Chemistry>metallurgy in 10.

Turn 5 (700AD) Move out the knights against Hippo.

IBT- Reg MI dies against our knight.

Turn 6 (710AD) Elite knight dies against vet NM at Hippo. Took a treb hit on the way. Vet knight kills the vet NM. Elite knight goes red against reg NM but second elite knight gets him. Hippo is ours. :) Elite knight kills a reg MI.

IBT- Vikes finally land a reg pike on our shores.

Turn 7 (720AD) Lose a knight attacking Cirta, but second vet knight and elite GS capture the town. :) Rush temple in Hippo. Lose a knight attacking the Vike pike, but second knight gets him.

IBT- Vike galley attacks our caravel. The cannon on our vessel outguns the arrows thrown at us.

Turn 8 (730AD) 2 reg NMs die at Oea, we capture the place. :) Elite knight kills 2hp MI.

IBT- Vikes want to talk. I don’t think so. Japan allies with India and declares on Vikes. Resistance at Oea ends.

Turn 9 (740AD) Lose a knight, but kill 2 NMs and a LB to capture Russicade. Plan to attack Carthage next turn with 8 knights.

IBT- Aargh. Iroquois beat us to Carthage. :mad: Oh well. Move our knights along north of Oea. There is a choke point 2 NE of that spot. As long as we control it, we can get the rest of the Carthaginian territory in the area without interference. That’s about 8 cities.
Trade Babylon Chemistry for 21 gold and banking.

And done. Score 2092. We’re 4 turns from metallurgy. I get the feeling that salt is in short supply here. Babylon had an extra source but wanted too much for it. Once we get MT, if it’s still available, we may need to bargain for it. By that point, Carthage should be all but extinct, and we can focus on Hiawatha. Most of my builds were knights, so we have a good supply of them. Just need to keep them coming.

Ragnar hasn’t shown us one zerk. Must be in bad shape. Just lost New Richborough early on, and that was it from him.

sounds like nice progress :thumbsup:

i can't play today, have to finish an overdue SG first. not sure about tomorrow either, but i should be able to play some turns and finish thursday.

was unable to play until now and won't play today. with the day off tomorrow i probably can play, but if chunkymonkey has time he can take it.

ok i'll take it now since i'm out of town this weekend. i'll have it posted up by tomorrow morning.

Save - 850AD (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD0850_01.SAV)

OK guys we have a major decision to make. First, the turns...

0 - 750AD - Whip 4 library, 3 temple, 2 cathedral.

IBT - Iroquois and Japan sign MA against Vikings. Our Dye deal with Japan expires, and they don't want any part of it anymore. Resistance ends in Rusicade, Erdenet. Carthage is building Bach's in Nora.

1 - 760AD - Whip 1 temple. Get new Japan deal (dye->35gpt+60gold). Elite MedInf kills wandering mercenary. Vet Medinf kills another. Move knight stack to doors of Sabratha.

IBT - Lots of galleys running around. England and Japan MA against Vikings.

2 - 770AD - Battle of Sabratha: Two elite knight wins against reg mercs wins us Sabratha and two slaves. Move remainder of stack to doors of Rusaddir. Elite knight kills reg longbow. Reduce sci to 80%.

IBT - Reg carthage medinf attacks our knights but loses. Resistance in Sabratha ends.

3 - 780AD - Battle of Russadir: vet knight attacks reg merc, retreats. vet knight attacks reg merc, wins. vet knight attacks reg merc, loses. vet knight attacks rec merc, wins. elite knight attacks reg merc, wins. vet knight attacks vet merc, loses. vet knight attacks vet merc, wins, promotes and takes russadir :) vet knight kills reg medinf. vet knight kills reg medinf. Carthaginian iron disconnected.

IBT - Vikings destroy Chinese - well... that ends our Chinese flip worries. :D Carthage and India sign alliance against Vikings. Samurai starts wandering across southeast of empire - worrying. Learn Metallurgy. Start on MilTrad for 8 turns. Instantaneously, everyone else has Navigation!

4 - 790AD - Move a knight stack to gates of Saldae. See a few French Ancient Cavalry loitering.

IBT - Resistance in Rusaddir ends.

5 - 800AD - Battle of Sardae: elite knight attacks reg merc, loses. vet knight attacks reg merc, wins. elite knight beats reg merc and takes Sardae. Battle of Baruun-Urt: vet knight attacks reg merc, wins. elite knight beats reg merc and takes Baruun-Urt (5 slaves). take 2 more slaves.

IBT - Renogotiate French dye deal (20gpt and 27g). Trondheim builds Bach's.

6 - 810AD - Battle of Malaca: elite knight kills reg merc. elite knight kills reg merc. elite knight loses to reg merc. vet knight kills reg merc, promotes, takes Malaca and 1 slave.

IBT - Carthage lands a medinf on ex-Chinese land.

7 - 820AD - Land some troops near solitary Carthage town on northern territory, Iol. Battle of Tingis: vet knight kills reg merc. vet knight kills reg merc and takes Tingis. Battle of Gades: vet knight kills reg merc. Elite GS attacks reg merc, retreats. Vet knight attacks reg merc, wins and takes Gades. Vet knight kills invading reg medinf.

IBT - Iroqouis and Carthage sign PT, breaking our alliance.

8 - 830AD - The Carthaginians are almost buried, and we no longer have contracts against them. So I sue them for peace. Their capital, Calaris , is on a one-tile island, so we're not going to be able to destroy them. They have three remaining towns - Iol, Carthago Novo, and Rusguniae. So I manage to get 3 gold, Iol, Cartahgo Novo and his World Map! Yay, we now have full knowledge of the whole world. :dance: Reduce sci to 90%.

IBT - Renogotiate Japan silk deal (38gpt +6gold)

9 - 840AD - Settle New Agedincum. Trade Banking with Carthaginians for Navigation and 2 gold. Hey, why not? Buy updated map from Joan for 61 gold.

IBT - Iroquois caravel sinks viking galley. Curiously, a Babylonian galley sails up to our shore. Our Japanese ivory deal expires, but the people cope.

10 - 850AD - Settle New Eboracum.

MilTrad in 3.
Firaxis - 2363
Culture - 20950 (+419)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/barbs_-_850AD.JPG

OK so a couple of things...

We can get wool from England at a more reasonable price than Japan wants for their ivory, but we don't really need it. Up to the next player.

But more importantly, we need saltpeter. Iroquois has muskets from somewhere (I think they traded with Japan) so attacking them would not be pretty. The only sources of saltpeter available are:

- Around Kyoto. Obviously a no-go area at the moment, unless we were feeling particularly suicidal.
- From Babylon - who are asking the earth for it, and it will only get worse after we learn MilTrad.
- Or here...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/barbs_-_saltpetre.JPG

This is to the east of our country. If we could capture these two towns, and put a colony down on the salt, we would have our precious cavalry. Obviously we would have to survive a bit of Gandhi-wrath, so maybe the Japs or Iroquois could help out...

It is likely that these towns will have muskets, so we need to prepare a decent strike force and be ready to reinforce it. I've started stockpiling knights to the east. Once we have cavalry, the Iroquois should be a breeze. :mischief:

So whadya think? We're running out of enemies, might as well have one in Ghandi... :)

EDIT: Oh yeah, I knew there was something else bothering me. How many elite wins has everyone had? I know I've had at least 30 just over my turnsets, and no leader... something's screwy. I bet all the other teams have had countless leaders :(

I'm not sure that capturing Karachi will help. When the border drops to the 9-tile variety I am concerned the Japanese town of Edo will just expand and take the salt. I think we would have to send in an invasion force and put a settler down right on top of the salt. Then mass upgrade of knights and away we go.

I'm not sure that Edo will automatically encompass the salt after the capture of Karachi, but the settler on the salt idea sounds more feasible and probably more workable. A whole bunch of knights (cavs) and trebs fortified in the city should be good enough to hold it. Pillaging the indian roads surrounding Karachi should stop the elephants.

Unless this is a short term measure... in which case we can just plonk the settler down on the salt and have all our knights ready to upgrade that turn. Seems a bit exploitative though... :hmm:

I'm not sure that Edo will automatically encompass the salt after the capture of Karachi

I'm not sure myself, but we're better off not taking a chance.

Unless this is a short term measure... in which case we can just plonk the settler down on the salt and have all our knights ready to upgrade that turn. Seems a bit exploitative though... :hmm: I don't think it is that exploitive. If Vanadorn was writing the story it would be that our knights have been training for months, we have the rifles and we just need the ammo. We force our way to some ammo and off they go.

On a side note I am leaving on a flight to Turkey tomorrow morning 8pst and will not be able to play until at least Monday night in Turkey. If my turns come up during the weekend I will need a swap. I will contact this thread when I get internet access there.

I think we can go for the indian saltpeter. I dont think it is exploitative. We do take a risk.
Who is up?
El Filet I think.

You there, el?

i got it and made it trought the opening turn. my defect pc kept me busy for hours, but it appears i got the problem now, so this one should be up today.

850 AD (0):
switch entremont to uni to avoid shield wasting (needs 4 shields for knight...)
partrush some culture

IBT:
gandhi&hammi want to allie agains viks->decline
renew incense deal with joan
babs unload bow close to beijing

860 AD (1):
with viks far away, give them peace for 20 gpt

IBT:
india and viks sign peace
babs sneak attack us
india starts magellan

870 AD (2):
embassy in london shows 4 reg musket, most buildings, 26 gpt; salt, iron, horse + 5 lux
give england dyes&WM for alliance against babs

IBT:
iros want to trade WM->decline
MT->physics

IBT:
iros start smith

IBT:
hannibal wants MA against viks :lol:
english and french suggest TM trade->no
boot from japan
japanese start smith

900 AD (5):
declare and land troops in india

IBT:
america and japan MA agains viks

910 AD (6):
mass upgrade to cav

IBT:
we lose 2 units against WE
indians start adam

IBT:
abe sneak attacks us
carthage and india allie against us

IBT:
french start smith
india has a surprisingly strong force in northern jungle :(

940 AD (9):
capture indus->temple
lose 3 cav capturing karachi

IBT:
indians start smith
we'll lose carthaga novo


notes:
we can make some money selling MT around

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD0950_01.SAV

Two sneak attacks against us in that turn set? So much for "plays well with others" :lol:

I'm back. Is it my turn now?

Go for it, Tim.

@ all: I posted our spoiler info in the appropriate thread if you care to review it.

I got it. I should play tonight (edit: and finish tomorrow).

Thanks for writing up the spoiler M60. :eek: Wow, some teams really did go in for the kill didn't they!

Good luck Tim :)

950(0)-Swap tiles to get Gergovia to 12spt, Entremont to 20spt
other MMing was mostly switching 1-shield tiles to 2-shield tiles
7 whips

Get 8gpt, 134g in WM sales
Abandon Carthago Novo
raise science to 100%
Decided not to give other civs cavs yet

IBT-America drops off a spear, war elephant kills cav
Iroquois starts Magellan's

960(1)-5 whips
start WLTKD in Curovernum
Anyang is in imminent danger; get 20g for peace from India
start sending troops for attack on Iroquois
pick up 17g selling WM

970(2)-5 whips

IBT-learn physics, start on ToG

980(3)-4 whips
Get Rusguniae for peace with Carthage
It's next to an American crusader; abandon it
get 184g selling WM (mostly from Carthage)

IBT-Babylon drops off longbowman

990(4)-1 whip

IBT-Japan, France, Iroquois, India start Shakespeare's

1000(5)-2 whips
I didn't realize free artistry getting sold around would make people broke (Japan in particular)

1010(6)-get 39g, 3gpt, WM for peace with America
3 whips
Declare war on Iroquois
Capture Carthage without loss

IBT-No Iroquois counterattack

1020(7)-Capture Utica without loss
1 whip
IBT-Iroquois response is only running away

1030(8)-lose two cavs at Theveste, lose one cav capturing Leptis Minor
Found New Nemausus, start on temple
Everybody knows MT already (I guess I delayed too long)
sell physics to Japan for 238gpt, 277g
sell it to India for 130gpt
sell it to France for 44gpt, WM
sell it to England for 3gpt, wines, WM
get 11g selling WM
science at 100%, making over 100gpt IIRC

1040(9)-lose one or two cavs capturing Theveste
Capture Cadiz without loss
6 whips
Japanese troops in Iroquois land are annoying

IBT-Carthage, Vikings sign peace
Tours builds Magellan's Voyage
Iroquois, India, cascade to Shake's

1050(10)-Found New Curovernum, start on temple

Notes: I haven't done any whipping this turn, look at Iol (yes, it's unhappy), Cadiz, New Verulamium, and Axima
Forest that tundra near Gergovia to get it to 14spt
Troops are in Theveste for next player to move
Iroquois hasn't shown much resistance; had I known that, I wouldn't have been afraid to give them cavs
I believe the incense deal with France just expired; renew or end it
The northern caravel can transport settlers to that two-tile island and that other nearby penisula

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD1050_01.SAV).

Cool, good start on Iroquois. They'll probably be a little more resisty once we enter their homeland.

Japan are pretty angry with us for some reason. Not looking forward to sharing a long border with a cavalry wielding Japan :( . I guess we'll need to decide what our strategy is after Iroquois. Two obvious targets: India and Japan. India will be easier, but perhaps if we declare on Japan first then we can get India's help. But it will be tough.

I estimate we probably have somewhere in the region of 70 turns before we win, so it depends really. We still have plenty of space on which we can settle peacefully and rush temples and libs, so we could always just go through Iroquois + India and just sit back for the remaining turns...

Dunno really :hmm:

Nothing from barbslinger yet on Internet access, so I believe jj is up

I think we should start pulling out some workers in preparation for rails. I wish I had thought of this during my turns. I wouldn't be surprised if some settler builds are unwise; perhaps a worker would be better there.

Game looks good! I would love to play whıle here but they have odd electrıcal outlets here so I wıll have to waıt untıl Monday when I fly to Seattle. I am at an ınternet cafe.

Greetıngs from Istanbul!

I got it.
Sorry for the delay in picking it up.
I plan to play tomorrow sometime. If that doesnt work out I will post and most probably ask for a skip.
Hope that the team is cool with that. If not, please feel free to take my turn.
jj

I need a skip/swap as I wont be able to play today.
We actually, against all odds, got through to the next round in a footy tourno here, so I will have to play today.

Sorry for the delay.
jj

Not sure if I should go, as I'd jump over two people. Barbslinger would be up next, but can't play until Monday. Maybe if jj can play it Sunday, that would be simplest. Otherwise I suppose I can take it.

:bump: anyone out there? :mischief:

Apparently not. I got it and will play tonight.

The save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD1150_01.SAV)

1050AD- Change Sabratha library>rax. Want to be able to convert more knights to cav in that area. Start to starve Theveste.

IBT- Babylon and England sign peace treaty. End incense deal with France. Japan starts Shakes.

1060AD (1)- Rush temple in Carthage. Trade India spices for an alliance against Iroquois. Sign RoP with Japan and we get 9 gold. Do some unit upgrades and drop science to 70% ToG still in 3.

IBT- Renew peace with Vikings. Lose a cav by Grand River. Looks like Iro are going to do an amphib landing by the Chinese lands. Position some cav to counter.

1070AD (2)- Lose a cav and elite knight but capture Tyendenaga, defended by 3 muskets. Rush a temple in Theveste.

IBT- Iro drops off a musket off our shores.

1080AD (3)- Lose 3 cav to 2 muskets @ Mauch Chunk. :( He has 2 remaining with cannon. Rush temple in Tyendenaga. Science to 70%. Found New Glanum.

IBT- India and Vikes sign peace. ToG to Magnetism in 8. Salamanca finishes Smiths. Carthage riots. Iro land another musket.

1090AD (4)- Lose 3 more cav at Mauch for only one musket. :mad: Capture Sulcis clean defended by 2 muskets and a treb. Lose a cav killing the musket dropped behind our lines, but kill it with a couple more.

IBT- Just not my day. Tyendaga flips. :cry:

1100AD (5) Fun time’s over. Trade Japan dyes for war against the Iroquois. Capture Mauch Chunk with cav, sell the improvements and torch the place.

IBT- Couple Japanese units duke it out with Hiawatha. Japan wants alliance vs. Vikes. I think not.

1110AD (6) Recapture Tyendaga.

IBT- Iro drop off a knight at Shantung Island, defended by knight.

1120AD (7) Attack the knight at Shantung and we lose. The place is going to fall, so sell the harbor and Change Nanking to build to caravel due in 1. As soon as he takes it, we’ll land 3 cav. Lose 2 cav, but take Grand River (size 12). Sell off all the improvements. Make peace with Babylon and we get 7 gold.


IBT- France completes Newtons AND Shakes. Shantung is captured by Iroquois and they grab 7 gold. :(

1130AD (8) Drop off 3 cav at Shantung.

IBT- Trade a caravel with Iro.

1140AD (9) Sink an Iro caravel. Get Shantung back, but the improvements are gone, so re-start the temple. Now we unload 2 cav and a knight on the Iro isle of Nora. Abandon Grand River. :p

IBT- India joins Japan against Scandanavia. Magnetism in, Steam in 13. A couple small towns riot.

1150AD (10) Our 5 cavalry take out the muskets at Tonawanda and the city is ours. :)
2 cav and a knight take out two muskets and Nora is ours. And done. Score 3225. There are two settlers in a caravel by Russicade that can be used to replace Tonawanda and the open land in the vicinity.

Post-turn. Our A-#1 problem is it is taking too long to get our troops from the core to the border. We should start kicking out a good number of workers so that as soon as steam is in, we can get railing. It is 30 tiles distance from Entremont to Theveste, never mind the hills and mountains. The good news is we’re well under the unit limit, so we could have like 250 more workers at no extra cost.

If indeed there are no armies through MGLs, we may want to get more cannons built once the AI gets rifles. It was brutal early on just digging out the muskets of size 11-12 towns. It’s a good idea to have 10 cav to clean out 3 defending vet muskets in the big cities.

I am sitting here in Seattle feeling that we are behind. I take this as an affront to my abilities and my position as a leader. I apologize to the the team. I am tring to download the necessary patches to play this on my new company computer. From what I have read we have missed the opportunity of taking the planet in time to be in first. Let us persevere. Continue continental dominace and temple / lib build.

If at all possble kepp the other countries at war. We need the WHOLE planet but a secluded AI.

I amtrying to download at this time but I only brought mt CIVIII and conquests discs. I feel helpless. On top of this huge dislike of being behind I am involved up to my ears with answering WESTEC questions in LA on the phone while trining a class here in Seattle. I need more time and will find it for this game and others.

Continue the attack, keep others at war and move palace if need be. Move it to develop new areas quicker. Move it to the other contnent where our forces are. Mobility is the key in taking out this large continent and transport is to slow.

We are behind and desparaate times call for desparate measures.

I am trying to get this save running.

Good luck getting the save working barbslinger. If you can't get it running, then me or jj will take it.

OK, aside from the obvious, we have three major problems.

- Japan will (at current rates) have 50000 culture in approx 75 turns. Therefore, we need to accelerate our cpt soonish, or be prepared to cripple Japan in our endgame, which will not be pretty.
- Former Mongol and Carthage lands are hideously unsettled. We need to start putting settlers down in ICS right away. As soon as we get rails I appreciate this will be quicker. Before we learn steam, we need all workers doing relatively useless tasks to be in position to create a link directly across the state.
- Once AI gets rifles wars are going to be extremely difficult to fight. I'm in two minds as to whether we should continue the cavalry sacrifices we have seen in order to gain a few cities here or there (if lucky), or just go for rapid settler production and ICS absolutely everywhere - not sure.

If we're lucky, we might be able to pick up Nationalism from the AI in exchange for Steam, then we can research all out to get Communism.

We're in a dire situation, but we can still avoid the spoon :)

EDIT: Oh yeah, and keep checking for whip possibilities at every turn in every city. I know its tedious, but the extra 3 culture here or there might be our saving grace.

One reason the settlement has slowed way down is it is just taking forever to get the settlers there. We have about half a dozen now getting into the vicinity, so that will help.

After a temple in these far-from-the-core towns, the librarys just take too long to build. I'd just spin off more workers.

Since we have India and Japan against Iroquois, that should allow us to continue pounding them. I'm not sure given our worker deficiency that I'd keep any more towns and sell improvements for cash, but rather just raze them for workers.

Once we've freed up enough new space and settled more, maybe we consider a final RoP rape of Japan. Enough to at least cripple them so that we have a clear path to 20K.

Chunky, I think you're up.

If not, I can take it and play tonight.
jj

You take it JJ. I won't have enough time to play today but I'll take it tomorrow.

Good luck with it :)

JJ, how's it going?

I am playing.
Will report later today.

1150 - Preturn:
Why arent we trading?
There are plenty opportunities.
There might come a time when we need to buy a tech.
Not to mention upgrade our military.
Dyes and Spices to France for 780g+780g and wm.
Dyes, Incense, Silks to England for 20+20+21gpt.
Silks to Japan, 23gpt.
We have lots of gold, so I upgrade all I can.

Switch to more settler builds, even though we already have some coming. I want more cities to build temples for our cultural domination.

The foreign advisor told me that "the celts will always triumph because Japan is dumb."
Had me laughing. Couldn't screen it as it came and went quickly.

1 - 1160
Position troops for continued war against Iroqouis and move settlers towards new city spots.
Move workers towards future railway path.

2 - 1170
Found 5-6 new cities in old carthagenian land.
We take Centralia without loss.

3 - 1180
We take St Regis losing one cav.
Healing, getting ready for Niagara Falls and Chondote.
IT: Japan take Chondote.

4 - 1190
We take Niagara Falls, and the lighthouse...
Found two new cities. Rush temples in newly conquered towns.
Pretty low flip risks, so we should be ok. Only 5%.

5 - 1200
Found two more cities.
Healing, and getting ready for Salamanca assault.
Steam in 7.
France has Nationalism...they got it this turn. Wont sell naturally.
Let us see when we get steam.
Whip some culture builds, about 4 of them.

OK.... we have 4 cavs near Allegheny and also we have troops in position for Salamanca soon.
I have built culture and settlers mainly. Trying to fill in the gaps. We now have many cities on one size producing temples.
In 12-15 turns or so they can probably be whipped to finish them.
I assume we are going 5 turns now as we are in the industrial age?
So i will post now.
jj

OK i had a look and things seem good. I'll try and finish the Iroquois off in my turn set, and if India don't have Nationalism by the time I get there, they're up for the chop - mass cavalry against pikes anyone? Although I somehow doubt Hiawatha will fold in the next 5 turns.

I'll play tomorrow, expect a post by tomorrow evening.

BTW, I was thinking, what should we go for after steam, considering we have ~70 turns left. Communism or Rep Parts? Both have advantages...

Hmm... we only have one turn of anarchy. That might play into the decision on research.
Besides, I dont think we need that much more land, just settlers for cities to get culture.
So, are we going to fight anymore after, lets say, India?
jj

sounds like good progress

Communism or Rep Parts?i vote for RP, think engineers would help our cities more then communism.

So, are we going to fight anymore after, lets say, India?agree, unless we need to hurt somebody (japan?) to avoid them getting over 50k.

The foreign advisor told me that "the celts will always triumph because Japan is dumb."
:lol: I almost missed this!

Japan is dumb, but it is likely that they will have a shot at 50k before we get 100k, unless loads of doubling bonuses come in for us. I propose we go after India once Iroquois is done for a bit of easy land. However, once they learn rifles it's pointless fighting a war against them.

At this point, I suggest we sit back, stockpile infantry, cavalry, and artillery. Heavily fortify our towns bordering Japan. Then do a massive ROP rape on Japan about 10-20 turns before they are due to reach 50K. Depending on how many troops we have, we could either just take out (and raze) their core cities (highest culture producing) or attempt for the whole lot.

This is going to be very tight!

I agree RP is probably going to be better. Fast workers, infantry, artillery (assuming we get rubber!)... Also a couple of engineers in a corrupt town gives us 5 shields, i doubt Comm would give us that. And remember anarchy is 2 turns for religious civs in C3C now. Although if we manage to trade for Nationalism soon i guess its a different story. Communism does have the obvious 'get out of despotism' bonus, I imagine our cities would grow double as fast (more whippability)...

However that's not a decision I have to make since I see Steam doesn't come in for 6 turns, so lets mull this one over... :)

Save... (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD1250_01.SAV)

0 - 1200AD - Sell Chemistry to Carthage for 32g. Turn some cities into WLTKD. More whipping...

IBT - Iroquois cavalry attack Niagara Falls but lose. Japanese cavalry softens up Allegheny for us.

1 - 1210AD - Battle of Allegheny: vet cav beats reg musket, promotes. vet cav beats vet musket, promotes. vet cav beats vet cav. vet cav beats redlined musket, take Allegheny. Battle of Salamanca: vet cav attacks vet musket, retreats. vet cav attacks vet musket, wins. vet cav attacks vet musket, wins. vet cav attacks reg musket, wins. vet cav attacks reg musket, retreats. vet cav attacks reg musket, promotes. elite cav attacks redlined musket, loses. vet cav attacks vet musket, wins. elite cav attacks reg musket, wins, take Salamanca, 10 slaves, and... Smiths :dance:!!!
more whipping... Found Lugdunum 2.

IBT - America wants to renew PT. Oh, OK.

2 - 1220AD - Found Camulodunum 2. Move everyone into place for attack on Oil Springs. whipping...

IBT - Japanse take Iroquois city of Akwesasne, and soften up Oil Springs for us. We lose our supply of wines, not to worry, Oil Springs has some... :mischief:

3 - 1230AD - Battle of Oil Springs: elite cav attacks elite redlined musket. Wins. Takes Oil Springs... move troops poised to take Cattaraugus and Kahnawake. Found Richborough 2. Found Verulamium 2.

IBT - The Indians take Kahnawake, which leaves Cattaraugus to us. Babylonians destroy Vikings. Oh well...

4 - 1240AD - Battle of Cattaraugus: vet cav attacks vet musket, loses. vet cav attacks vet musket, loses. vet cava ttacks reg musket, wins. elite cav attacks vet musket, wins. elite cav attacks vet musket, wins. take Cattaraugus. Iroquois cleaned from land... curious to see what happens to Japan and India now...Found Gergovia 2. whippy whippy...

IBT - Indian and Japanese forces continue north, possibly to find the last couple of Iroquois cities.

5 - 1250AD - Healing of forces, whipping, and positioning of workers for rails.

Post-turn thoughts.

Steam in 1. Workers are ready to rail. Vote we go for rep parts afterwards.

Culture: 42855 (+690). Japan is 25171 (+341). Which means they reach 50k in 70 turns. We (at current rates) have 80 turns to get to 100k. Lets keep whipping and settling more cities, and we may not even have to start on Japan (which would be nice).

Our MA with India against Iroquois ends next turn. Depending on nerves of next player, suggest we cancel alliance, then declare on India. Japanese alliance is still active, so don't sign treaty with Iroquois.

Perhaps we can get Babylon in against India for a tech (they are pretty behind). I don't really want Japan in on this one since they are getting too strong, but it may come to that.

Colosseums are rubbish and take too long. Let's not build any more. Give me 12 workers or 4 settlers any day. We need tons more workers. I switched some builds to workers, but we are very short on manpower.

I just hopes we got coal... :)

Nicely done, guys. On the 5-turns question, if someone wants to take 10 turns, I'm fine with that. Agree that India is up next, and I like the idea of using Babylon as an ally as well. RP as the next tech sounds good.

@ barbslinger: Are you going to be able to take it now?

Good job!
I forgot about the specialists that comes with RP... blush...
If we dont get coal it would be a rip off from the mapmaker.

I agree that RP would probably allow for more shields than communism. The faster workers might make up for the food penalty.

Nothing from barbslinger, so he's skipped. TB, you're up.

Got it. I may not be able to play until Thursday.

Edit: I'll let barbslinger take it.

I will be away from thursday to sunday night.
jj

I can take it tonight. I am finally back home, whew! I will read over the past logs and continue conquesting. I read India is next with Babylon support.
Really is disconcerting looking at the scoring now. Will do 5 turns with railing up now.
edit - It will have to be tomorrow night most likely. I realized I have a bunch of errands to run now that I am home.
I'll load it tonight though and perhaps. :fingers crossed:

I'm sorry guys. I couldn't get to it last night. I'm having carpeting laid tomorrow so the condo is in upheaval from moving furniture, computer included. Also, I have to complete my taxes tonight. I can play tomorrowafternoon at the earliest. If someone wants to jump in front of me that would be fine.

I'll see if I can play tonight. If not, I'll just wait for you.

1250(0)-rush in Utica, Karachi, New Isca, Centralia, New Agedincum, Kaifeng, Gades, Tingis, Iol
some MMing
Wow, changed one scientist and saw steam power would be in 2
get 43g selling WM

IBT-learn steam power, start on electricity

1255(1)-We have coal connected by Salamanca, unconnected by Darhan
Japan, India, Babylon, France also have coal
sell chemistry to America for 31g, 21gpt, WM
cancel alliance with India
rush in New Segusio, Cadiz, Baruun-Urt, New Nemausus, New Alesia, New Lugdunum

IBT-renew ROP with Japan

1260(2)-rush in Almarikh, New Rutupiae, Rusicade, New Camulodunum, New Glevum, New Axima, Niagara Falls
Declare war on India
give Babylon silks for an MA

IBT-lose two cavs, kill a couple of war elephants
England, Japan sign MPP

1265(3)-rush in Cattaraugus, Leptis Magna, Theveste, Lezoux, New Glanum, New Deva, New Burdigala, New Eboracum
lose a cav capturing Kahnawake

IBT-lose a cav

1270(4)-kill a bunch of Indians and...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM6_barbslinger_leader.JPG
rush in Tonawanda, Malaca

IBT-lose a cav

1275(5)-Sorry, I had to do something else didn't have time to finish this turn (nor will I tomorrow)
Possible rushes: New Ratae Coritanorum, New Noviomagus, New Durocortorum, Entremont 2 5, Sabratha, Ta-tu

Notes: We can build Heroic Epic and Military Academy now; I haven't switched to them yet
You can cancel MA with Japan against Iroquois; Iroquois would give a city for peace
We are still short on workers, so the railnet isn't up yet

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD1275_01.SAV).

:lol:

And after all that whinging I've just done in the maintenance thread about not getting a leader...

Better late than never I guess!

A cavalry army will be very useful for now actually, India are resource weak, but bulky. Suggest we build HE as soon as possible, and if we do happen to get another leader [/fingers crossed], I propose we stick a palace in the uncultured part of our land, speed up culture rushing there a little bit.

It looks like we will probably beat Team Bede to 100K which is a relief... the only thing that I can see stopping us is if Japan rapes us.

Noticed we could trade Steam to Japan, not sure how much they'll give us, or whether we even should... what's the worldwide coal supply situation like?

Keep on whipping! :D

Japan, India, Babylon, France have coal. I was checking how much Japan would give for steam power, and so far it's been ivory, and all of their gold and gpt (plus more, I'm sure).

Since we're at the end game now, just wanted to make sure everyone was aware of the other useful tactic in a 100K game: draft rushing.

i.e. drafting rifles or infantry and then disbanding them (for ~20 shields each) in corrupted towns to partially complete temples, libraries or cathedrals. by doing this we can finish cultural builds in a turn each.

To make this effective, we need to rail up and irrigate our corrupt cities to give maximum pop rushing capability and engineer capacity, whilst also irrigating and railing our other cities as our second objective to create the drafting capability. We still need vast numbers of workers, and hopefully once we are in peace-time, it will be a quick leap to 100K.

Barbslinger, ready to take it?

Also worth noting is that drafting infantry (22 shields per citizen) is more effective than pop rushing.

Yeah of course, but remember we can only draft in cities (and we have a limited amount of those)... our newly founded towns may take a while to get to city status

We're about 70 turns from 100K at current rates as I figure, assuming Japan is dealt with. Once we're done with India, taking care of Tokugawa will give us smooth sailing.

It doesn't look like barbslinger's around, so who wants it?

M60 or elfilet?

I think it's been a while since el had a turn, so he would be ahead of me.

this week is busy, in case i find time to play i'll post. maybe today, but friday is more likely.

this week is busy, in case i find time to play i'll post. maybe today, but friday is more likely.

I have time to play this evening. Should I take it then?

That's probably best, we should keep the momentum going :)

Yes, I'd like to get moving along here as well.

Latest save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD1325_01.SAV)

Turn 0 (1275) Cannon and cavalry take out 2 reg muskets, reg pike and LB and Madras falls. :) Next to Dehli, so I don’t think we can hold it. Raze the place for 6 workers. Switch Entremont to Heroic Epic, due in 7. Oil Springs has quite an Indian contingent in the area, kill 3 muskets, 2 MI, elite WE and a pike. And we get Orgetorix from an elite 3hp cav. So now we have two armies. :) Load up the victorious army to knock off 2 more LBs. Then finish up with two more single LB kills.

IBT- Lose 2 cav, one of which had the workers from Madras. Well they can only go one tile. A couple Iro cities riot because I had to un-garrison them. Set builds almost exclusively to workers. Japanese alliance against Iro expires and I do not renew it.

Turn 1 (1280) Recapture the Indian workers. Then kill the MI that killed our cav and grabbed the workers. At Oil Springs, finish off the Indian contingent of 3 LBs and a pike.

IBT- Iro want to talk- No. England declares on Iro.

Turn 2 (1285) Kill WE. Rail is up to Salamanca. I’m resting up our troops for next turn which should have our railnet closer to the Indian frontier.

IBT- Japanese privateer sinks our caravel. Indian LB captures 4 unguarded cannons. I’ll get them back, they’re simply moved to an empty neutral tile.

Turn 3 (1290) Send a cav to re-take our cannon and kill the pilfering LB. :p Railnet up to Kahnawake. Capture Hyderabad defended by 2 muskets and a LB. Collect 4 workers. Rush a temple in Kahnawake and library in Leptis Magna.

IBT- Pretty quiet.

Turn 4 (1295) Army captures Ganogeh from reg Indian musket. :) Move second army up to Bengal. Size 12, vet pike showing.

IBT- WE dies attacking our cav. Iro LB attacks what I assume to be a pike in Bizen and dies. It was in the fog so not sure.

Turn 5 (1300) Bengal is defended by two pikes and a musket. Easy meat for our two armies. Raze the place. :)

IBT- Dye deal comes up for renewal with English. Re-negotiate the deal from 20 gpt to 31 gpt. India wants to talk- no. Japanese deal for our silks is up, I choose not to renew. India kills a cav.

Turn 6 (1305) Move up troops to attack Dacca next turn. Land 4 cav at Caughnawaga.

IBT- Lose a cav at Oil Springs to WE. HE in at Entremont, cav next.



Turn 7 (1310) Dacca defended by 2hp WE, reg musket and pike. Cannon and cav take care of all 3 without loss. Lose a cav, kill 2 muskets and spear. 1 hp musket survives at Caughnawaga. Kill a WE by Dacca. Lose an elite cav by a reg musket, but kill it along with two others using the armies and Punjab falls. :) Capture 2 workers nearby. Drop sci to 60%, electricity still in 2.

IBT- Have an incense deal to renew with England which I take. Incense deal comes up with Joan which I decline.

Turn 8 (1315) There are 54 turns to victory at the cpt of 882. Only a Japanese sneak attack could throw us of course. So it’s time to send Tokugawa’s troops on a mission. Declare war on France. Make MA with Tokugawa against France. Pay off Babylon 210 gold for the same deal. That should keep them busy. Raze and replace Punjab. Kill off a pike and LB by Amiens.

IBT- Electricity in, RP in 33. France loses an Ancient cav against us and India loses a WE.

Turn 9 (1320) France loses a horse, AC and a LB near Amiens. See a vet rifle defending. Kill reg and vet musket at Chitagong. Reg musket defending. Babylon has 10 knights and a cav on the other side of town. Try a reg cav against Caughnawaga, no success, so I withdraw from the island. We’ll be back.

IBT- Another French AC dies against our cav. Carthage allies with Babylon against India.

A bunch of Japanese cavalry are headed back in our direction. :confused: Well this is bad, Japan attacks us anyways. :cry: Hyderabad, New Arausio, and Theveste are captured, Tolusa 2 burned, several workers and 12 cannon captured by Japan.

Turn 10 (1325) Capture Chittagong from India with the armies. :) Recapture Theveste and Hyderabad. Recapture our cannons. Attack Amiens and 3 cav defeat 3 French rifles and take the city. :) Move the 2 cav armies to Amiens to heal. Sell off the improvements and raze Chittagong. Make peace with India in exchange for an alliance against Japan. Pull out almost all the workers successfully back to work on a railnet near Karakorum as well as two settlers in Entremont. And done, score 4080.

Post turn- Several things.

Japan has 20 cav near Glanum 2. The 2 cav armies and 4 singles are healing at Amiens. I piled up what few reserves we have around, 7 cav and 10 cannon, but most of the cav need to heal. Three other cav at Theveste. Our one saltpeter at New Tolosa is untouched but don’t know how long that will last. We can’t hold the twenty odd towns that have virtually no garrisons in the Iro-Indian lands. Don’t know if the Indian alliance will distract Toku, but thought it was worth a shot.

Next up may want to sell improvements and abandon some of these towns, or else this could get expensive as our treasury gets raided. Not sure where we want to try and hold the line, but once our cav armies heal, we should be able to stabilize things a bit.

Ouch, that must have stung. :sad:

Oh well, lets just try and hold the line for as long as is necessary, and just get peace ASAP. Perhaps we should pay Toku tribute afterwards just to keep him sweet. Sounds like we need more cavalry...

I'm gonna have a look at the save to see what I think we should do with respect to burning our towns, but I'm inclined just to let them plunder away (gold is going to be close to useless soon), and absorb their cavalry into the cities they take.

Good job though :)

EDIT: Glad to see railnet is up :clap:, that should make things simpler for us, there are few healthy units scattered around, which is nice. There are lots of unguarded cultured towns though which cavalry could reach next turn :( lets try to limit the loss somehow (maybe try and lure Japan into a funnel of death or something, somehow, don't ask me! ;) )

Perhaps we should switch some builds to cavalry, just until we are rid of Japanese troops, but I leave that up to next player.

I thought we had Nationalism by now for draft capability :confused: , doesn't matter, if we can get it cheap at some point then perhaps we should.

I see at least a dozen builds which should have been whipped by now...

Ooo, also, lets stick science on max, so we waste our gold that way, instead of having it plundered...

Best of luck el! :D

One other thought was that we could gift towns to a weak player like America, if they're not at war with Japan. Then when peace breaks out we could reclaim them.

looks like some long turns coming...

i got it, but it will have to wait until tomorrow. don't expect to play more then 5 with all the wars and poprushing.

sorry guys, it appears i can't play today. pc crushed twice during turn 0 and now i can't get conquest started. feel free to move forward to keep this game moving.

wanted to take care of the japanese towns in mongolia first to get rid of this front.
some points to remember, most of them mentioned before:
some units in carthage and theveste (most of them injured)
ships threatened (near our core)
cannon stack unprotected (near front, N)
japanes SoD near glanum 2
poprushes possible
can't hold front, i think sell/gifting plan would be best
strongly suggest to take care of japanese cities in our backyard, we can't afford units to protect our cities there
we need more units (don't think you can overlook that)
rail to front built, but lots of cities still unconnected
we can't use our money for rushes, it should be invested in selfresearch imo

I'll play on Monday night, but if anyone wants to take it before then be my guest.

Haven't finished yet (3 turns played in 4 hours...), but my eyes are starting to hurt, so here's an update:

I traded Elec for Nationalism (there was no way we were going to survive without drafting some rifles).

Managed to defeat that stack of 25 cavs that was threatening to run through our newly acquied cities.

We lost our saltpetre as expected. So cavalry are very precious now.

There is another 25 cavs threatening our garrisoned cities at the moment.

Had to give 8 of our weakly placed towns to America. Don't worry we'll get them back.

I think I can probably ride out the rest of the war with the troops I have left until Japan comes asking for peace, although it'll be tough.

I've had to reduce sci to 0% since we almost in the red. Even at 100% tax we are at -12gpt... The maintenance of all these culture buildings in Despotism is killing us. Might need to start hiring taxmen at expense of growth.

We are at 58235cul (+917)... optimistic estimate of 40 turns until victory assuming there are no disasters.

I'm going to play again tomorrow. I'll just keep going until I get tired again then I'll post it up.

Thanks for the update.

*** Save *** (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Barbslinger_SG006_AD1375_01.SAV)

I'm very, very, tired now...

0 - 1325AD - OK, may not be a popular move, but trade Electricity to Hammurabi for Nationalism, and get a bunch of gold and Economics thrown in. In total, I draft 27 rifle guys. I also whip several culture builds and some cavalry builds. Establish American embassy. Sign ROP. Give them Glanum 2, Lindum 2, Amiens, cities currently at risk. Although it pains me to do it, have to donate Allegheny too. Much easier to defend land now. Found a couple of towns. Kill 1 Jap cav. Stack up Salamanca and Centralia with rifles and cannons and hit enter...

IBT - French ships head towards western lands. Carthage and Japan sign embargo against us. Japnese frigate dies attacking us. Jap cav dies attacking Salamanca. New Verulamium is captured (only defended by pike).

1 - 1330AD - Draft another 17 rifles. Found 4 towns. Sell Physics to Hannibal for 199g. Donate Ganogeh to America, and Augustodurum2 (island) since its just about to be captured. Garrison the border.

IBT - The Japanese stack of cavalry attack our heavily draft garrisoned city of Nemausas2. We survive but with heavy conscript losses. They have lots of wounded cavalry out in the open. They raze New Tolosa, our saltpetre city. French land cav on Nora island. Pah.

2 - 1335AD - More draft. Sell silks to Hammurabi for 25gpt. Found 3 towns. Donate Nora and Dacca to America. Kill remaining 19 cav haunting Nemausus 2 with zero losses. Kill some muskets hanging around near Cataractonium 2. Kill some more wandering muskets.

IBT - Carthage and France sign embargo against us.

3 - 1340AD - Must reduce sci to zero otherwise we will go into red. We are at -gpt as it is. Trade Hammi Incense for 25gpt. Donate Isca 2 to America. Kil some Jap muskets and longbow. Found 3 towns.

IBT - Carthage and England sign embargo against us. Carthage and Babylon sign alliance against France. America and Japan sign trade embargo. Japs kill 2 elite cav.

4 - 1345AD - Give Karachi and Indus, Iol and New Curovernum to America. Kill 25 jap cavs and a longbow, with only 5 vet losses

IBT - Only a couple of skirmishes with jap cavs. Looks like most of their stacks our taken care of. Phew! :D

5 - 1350AD - Kill off some cavalry and muskets without losses. Some whipping. All cities reachable by rail now.

IBT - America and Carthage sign MA against India.

6 - 1355AD - Get our 3rd leader. :cool: Elect to build another cavalry army so we can have access to Pentagon. Launch assault on Hovd (japanese) with cavalry Army. Defeat 2 muskets and take Hovd. Kill 5 wandering cavs. Ataack Izumi with another cavlry army. Kill 2 muskets and take the town.

IBT - Joan wants to talk peace. Not yet, don't want to get Hammi mad. She lands a rifle and musketeer on land.

7 - 1360AD - Kill some wandering Japanese and French Units.

IBT - French land more units.

8 - 1365AD - Everyone will talk peace. I don't want to yet... Use cavalry army to kill two rifles in Hadrumentum and take the town. Ise is the only foreign town buried in our lands now. Whilst cleansing land of French, get another leader :dance:. Use him to rush the Pentagon!

IBT - carthage and England sign MA against us. England lands a cav.

9 - 1370AD - Kill all intruders without loss.

IBT - England declares on the Indians. America and France sign trade embargo against us. England lands cavalry. Some minor skirmishes.

10 - 1375AD - We get yet another leader whilst clearing Japanese cavalry away. 3rd leader in my set, I think the RNG gods listened to my prayers :lol: Use beefed up cavalry army to take out two rifles and capture Akwesasne.

Score: 4377
Culture: 63754 (+926)

OK, here's the deal.

We have a leader, with three options:
create 4th army.
rush Mil Academy which is already part completed in Entremont.
rush a palace somewhere in new lands.

To be honest, i'd just go with another army. We can't improve much upon our winning time now, so moving the core has minimal use. We could complete the Academy, but i'd just prefer to go with strength in numbers.

We are too poor to research, or even save up. We are just hovering above bankruptcy. We may never get Infantry.

Everyone will talk peace. But don't sign treaty with Joan. She isn't really very annoying at the moment and it would only get Hammi mad if we broke the alliance. Could sign with Liz, but I was waiting to get something decent out of her.

The real question is, should we sign with Toku? If we do it gives us a rest, and we will probably be able to ride the rest of the game out with little worry.
But if he sneak attacks us again that would be a nuisance. He is fatigued now, and only attacking in dribs and drabs, but our cavalry forces are slowly depleting. We could take a few more towns of his and then call it a day - perhaps we'll be able to get something useful from him.

Also, America is currently in control of Karachi. If we were to take this back, I think the cultural memory would cover that saltpetre tile. So do we want to take our towns back from America? We can't be at war with Lincoln and Toku at the same time. It is impossible.

40 turns to go!!! :)

As long as Toku can't be at 50k when we hit 100, I say make peace. It is highly unlikely we'd be hit with two sneak attacks.

And definitely take Army #4. Well done on that set. :goodjob:

Roster revival time!

el - are you functional yet?
barbslinger
jj
Tim
M60
monkey

Lets keep this going chaps we're almost finished. I agree with M60, get 4th army. Sign peace with Japan. And declare on America at player's discretion to get towns and salt back.

And don't forget :whipped:

not yet. i don't think i'll have time to play before sunday, it should be working until then. good thing this will be my last turnset, i'll be on vacation after tuesday.