How is the economy?

Can you use the threat of war to get them into an alliance?

If you can 't just try to hold them off in north until the Mongols are out of the way, then link up the troops and start mar marching north.

So is renegotiating peace the only way to get an alliance? I did think of that, but once I start the negotiation, we have to come to a deal, or we're at war, right? And we have ongoing deals with all of Babylon's neighbors (in fact, we have existing peace deals with both the Americans and Iroquois - can you even renegotiate before the 20 turns are up?), so we'd trash whatever shreds of our rep we have left if we can't come to an agreement. So I've been saving that for a last resort.

The economy is about as healthy as can be expected - if I shut off research again, we have +85 or so gpt, with almost 900 in the bank. That should be enough to buy some alliances, if it wasn't for the rep issue.

I did take your advice and moved the troops back to the Indian corner, which is where the main Babylonian attack seems to be, so it shouldn't be too bad. But they also have a few troops running around near our far eastern border, which is very lightly defended, so we might lose a couple more cities there if I can't distract them somehow. Plus, they have cavalry. :( But the biggest problem is that Babylon has deep pockets (a couple of turns ago they had more than 2000 gold), so they can probably buy some alliances.

OK, I really hate to have to stop and ask for advice again, after taking so long to get these turns played, but the Babylonian war is turning into a disaster. They've managed to pick off a couple of our lightly defended eastern cities (Mauch Chunk and Tonowanda), which is annoying, but not the end of the world.

But now there's a sizable fleet (3 galleys and a caravel visible so far) heading directly at our core :eek: - which is, of course, almost completely undefended. We just built two knights, which is better than nothing, but if Babylon drops off, say, half a dozen cavalry, we're in very deep trouble.

Btw, it turns out we can sign alliances after all; they're just really, really expensive. So expensive, in fact, that it took most of our economy even to budge them to doubtful, which is why I thought it was impossible. I managed to sign an alliance with the Iroquois (by shipping them a couple of luxuries) when the war started, which has helped, but we don't have enough money to get another one.

We just don't have enough military to go around, and what we do have is mostly too far away from the action to be of much help. I'm attaching an intermediate save - can you guys look at it and give me some suggestions? I'm really not very good at dealing with this sort of situation...

When last I looked there was knight army in old Japan.

Can you send them on a Mosby's ride through Babylon, tearing up the countryside?

I'll look at the save later.

Yeah, but I just started moving them east to try to stop the bleeding there (since it's the fastest unit). Really, it's the invasion fleet that I'm concerned about - our core is almost totally undefended, and I would really hate to lose one of the few productive cities we do have. Everything else is manageable.

While I'm at it, I'll go ahead and post the turn log so far:

IHT - 850 AD

In light of Bede's suggestion that we should try to stir up some trouble in the rest of the world (so that we can pound on our neighbors in peace), I start out by doing a quick review of the diplomatic situation. And I discover that we have the following deals going:

Babylon: peace treaty with 20 turns left :hmm:
Scandinavia: selling them spices for 8gpt (10 turns), receiving 4 gpt (20 turns)
America: peace treaty (6 turns)
Iroquois: peace treaty + sending them iron (17 turns)

We are also receiving 4 gpt from France (20 turns) and have ongoing ROPs with Carthage, China, and Iroquois (all of which can be freely canceled).

So there's clearly going to be no dogpiling on Babylon during my turns, and probably no troublemaking at all. It's be sort of nice if China and Carthage started fighting, but I don't really want to open up a two-front war by declaring on one of them to get the ball rolling right now. So I guess I'll have to just concentrate on wiping out the Mongols, hope they can't bring in any help, and figure out what to do about our other neighbors later.

On research...I agree that researching Banking is going nowhere, so I look into the possibility of researching Military Tradition - we want it ASAP, we can't trade for it with gpt, we're not going to be signing alliances in the immediate future, we're not going to be beating it out of anybody anytime soon, and we have so many libraries that we get about 20% more beakers than gold from the same amount of commerce. At 40% research, we can get it in 24 turns with +6 gpt, so I do that (at 50%, we're at -59 gpt, which is too much). If nothing else, it'll be cheaper when we do get a chance to buy it.

2 - 870 AD

Babylon takes New Bombay, wiping out India.

Take Darhan. There are still a few random bogies around, but the Mongols are going to keep trickling longbows at us forever until we take the rest of their cities.

4 - 890 AD

On the IT, Babylon sneak attacks us, taking the undefended town of Grand River. OK, I guess we will try to start a dogpile after all. Unfortunately, due to our broken alliance earlier, nobody will ally with us!

I think we really do need allies, because we just don't have the military strength to take on Babylon alone, not to mention whatever allies Hammurabi signs up with his 2000+ gp treasury. As it is, some of our far eastern towns are in jeopardy because our defenses over there are very weak.

I pause to consult with the team, hoping that there is something I'm not thinking of, but it looks like renegotiating peace is the only option. However, I discover in the negotiations that, even though the advisor says "will never accept such a deal", they actually will ally with us - we just have to put so much on the table to even budge them to doubtful that I didn't see it earlier. So I renegotiate our ongoing ROP with the Iroquois and find that we can get an alliance for ROP, furs, ivory, our world map, 600 gold, and 21 gpt. Ouch! But since the Iroquois are between us and Babylon, it will help immensely to have them on board (and should protect our weak eastern border), so I take a deep breath and pay it.

Our entire remaining economy isn't sufficient to get an alliance from America or Scandinavia, so one ally will have to do. At least the Babs can't send any more troops through Iroquois territory.

5 - 900 AD

On the IT, the Babylonians sign an alliance with the French...vs. the Iroquois. Whew.

They also take Mauch Chunk (which was guarded by a single GS that I couldn't reinforce), but the rest of their troops turned around, so hopefully that'll be the extent of our losses.

The Mongols attack Darhan with a Keshik. Diplo screen shows they still don't have horses, though, so must be left over. Hope they don't have too many, especially with all these mountains around.

A Babylonian galley comes into view north of our core. This is very bad news, since we have so many undefended cities, and the Amazon dividing our forces. If he drops off, say, two cavalry, we have a major problem on our even a couple of reinforcements ready.

6 - 910 AD

Another alliance - Iros bring in Scandinavia vs. France. We're certainly managing to stir up some trouble, but unfortunately it's not helping us against the Babs.

Oh, no! Two more galleys and a caravel come into view. :eek: This could get really bad. And the Babs take Tonowanda - those darn cavalry are just too fast. I try to retake Mauch Chunk, but somehow two spearmen have appeared there in the one turn that's elapsed since it's fallen. In retrospect, counterattacking here was probably a bad move. Need to get some forces from the west over here.

On the Mongol front, I just finished moving forces into position to take Hovd, so I go ahead and do it. Hopefully this will consolidate our position a bit here, but there are still a few too many random Mongols running around to be able to spare many troops to send east.


Is it worth thinking about making peace with the Mongols and racing east to defend the core? Or should I keep going and hope to be able to deal with the invasion with what we have? I guess it's possible that the mighty invasion fleet will just drop off a couple of bowmen and I'll feel silly, but even two or three cavs would be enough to stand a good chance of razing a core city or two.

I'd say, take peace with Temujin, and do as you say. We've still got the Gallic Army, right? Should make a decent defender for the core, and is our quickest unit in that area anyhow.

SInce Darhan and Hovd are in our hands do the peace thing with the Mongols and take what they will give us (but no towns) and see if they will throw in an RoP inthe deal. Then put the two armies in position where they can do us some good.

The galleys and caravels can be dealt with if you can get the two armies over there. ANd hope that our friends the Iroquois can keep the bozos busy on the other side.

And sorry about leaving you some bad advice and not posting the log of a deal with Babylon. But somehow I ended up renegotiating peace with Hammi and I'm not quite sure why. :confused:

On the science front every one pop town that has built its temple can become a scientist. And every bigger town on a river or lake should have at least one scientist. That will bring the research time way down on MilTrad and preserve the treasury.

OK, it turns out that I was mostly worried about nothing - I forgot how truly awful the AI is at conducting invasions. You'd think that an emperor-level AI, of that size, could manage to land at least a couple of cavalry....

6 - 910 AD (cont)

OK, the first order of business is to make peace with the Mongols. Unfortunately, they have absolutely nothing to offer in return. I think we did too good a job of pillaging them. :) Since we're much bigger than they are, I figure they'll accept a ROP even if it's not part of the peace negotiation, so I do the two deals separately. Then I start moving units east to deal with the threatened invasion. I also change a couple of knight builds to MDIs just because we need warm bodies. It'll have to do, I guess.

I follow Bede's suggestion and hire a bunch of scientists, which drops the research time on MT from 21 to 15 turns. Nice. :cool: While I'm at it, I change a couple of our second ring cities to barracks - we clearly need more military.

I hold my breath and press enter...and the Babylonian fleet doesn't drop anybody off, electing to sail further down the coast. Good; every extra turn gives us more time to get defenders in position.

8 - 930 AD

On the IT, one of the Babylonian galleys was sunk attacking our galley. :) Still no troops dropped off. And in the east, that pesky Bab cavalry decides to go after the Iroquois instead of us. So it looks like the situation might actually be turning around now.

We also get a message that America has started Newton's. We're starting to fall well behind in tech, but not sure what there is to be done about that.

Our knight army attacks Tonowanda, and defeats the first (fortified) spearman flawlessly. So I attack again...and the second (unfortified) spearman does 8 (!) damage, so our army wins with one hit point left. That gives us Tonowanda again, but unfortunately Babylon still has a cavalry within striking distance, and we can't afford to lose that army, so I'm forced to retreat. Nobody else can quite reach the city, and if I abandon it the cavalry can use the roads to kill our army, so I'm forced to leave it undefended.

9 - 940 AD

As predicted, Babylon retook Tonowanda, but the forces that couldn't quite get there last turn retook the town (and killed that annoying cavalry!). The invasion fleet just sat there, and I haven't seen any other Bab troop activity recently, so I am declaring the situation officially under control once more (well, until the Babs and Iros sign peace, anyway). Really had me scared for a couple of turns, though.

As a side benefit of ending the Mongol war, the incense is now hooked up again.

10 - 950 AD

Babylon signs Scandinavia in against the Iroquois. This is turning into a dogpile on the Iros, which isn't exactly what we wanted to happen.

The Babylonian invasion fleet sinks both of the galleys I had built to defend our waters. But still no troops dropped off. I know the AI is bad at invasions, but this is ridiculous. Not that I'm complaining too much, though...


Notes:

I think we have enough military in our core now that we can start thinking about moving forces back west (or to the Chinese border, or wherever seems appropriate). I strongly recommend that we don't leave the core totally undefended again, though - if the Babylonians had actually bothered to bring any ground troops in their invasion force, things could have gotten really ugly.

The eastern front is stable, at least for the moment - haven't seen any Bab activity there (other than that one cavalry, who is now dead) since the beginning of the war. The alliance with the Iroquois is really helping us there. The knight army is currently healing in Osaka; as soon as it's done, it can be used to take the Bab cities south of the Iroquois, or sent pillaging, or whatever.

Military Tradition is currently due in nine turns, with the aid of a bunch of scientists, who should probably be turned back into productive citizens once we have it.

Even with losing a couple cities, our city count increased by ten or so during our turns, and our culture per turn is up to 366.

I just noticed that just about every other team has crossed our score graph by now. I think we might have focused a bit too much on building new cities and culture, and not enough on military - progress in our wars has been awfully slow.

Anyway, enough rambling. Here's >>>The Save<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD0950_01.SAV) , for the next better player. Sorry about taking so long for my turns....

Yup!

Now that I think on it two things were non-optimal:
1) Stopping our campaigns when we should have pressed on.
2) Researching the wrong side of the tech tree in the MA using cash instead of scientists.

Going forward I think it is best to keep every town on a lake or a river and every town with more than two population with at least one scientist if corruption (gold) and waste (shields) exceed 30% if we are researching or keep at least one tax collector if corruption exceeds 50% if we are stockpiling cash. The scientist is worth 3 beakers per turn which equals three gold pieces and the tax collector equals two and since roaded tiles only produce one gold we will get more scientific productivity and more income this way out of those towns. And since a roaded and mined regular grass only produces one shield the shields lost will not be noticed either in those towns if we have a hill or forest available.

Also Japan is full of trees, use them to hustle the builds after the temple. It takes some careful figuring to get it right but it will be worth it in the long run,

Mab - up
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper
eldar
Bede
Minute Man

Anyway, enough rambling. Here's >>>The Save<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD0950_01.SAV) , for the next better player. Sorry about taking so long for my turns....


*takes deep breath*

Better player? moi? :rolleyes: :lol:

I've downloaded the save and will try and play it tonight. I don't know if I'll be able to stick to the 48hr deadline (Grandad's 80th bday and have to bake a cake!) but I'll give it my best shot.


......... unless one of you bloodthirsty warmongerers wants to swap turn sets? :p

I would swap but I am up in my other SG. Just a reminder, land artillery can damage ships and in the narrow channel the enemy is always vulnerable. Still takes a ship to sink a ship though.

I am almost done with the last CotM which I elected to do as 100K. A lot of cities are needed and it takes many turns and lots of micro management.

I am almost done with the last CotM which I elected to do as 100K. A lot of cities are needed and it takes many turns and lots of micro management.

I suspect there will be quite a few 100Ks going around.

Didn't manage to get to it last night but will try to finish tonight. I'll use your combined arms suggestions and hopefully the counter attack will be limited.

Are we aiming for peace with the babs? Our rep is already trashed so it shouldn't hurt too much to dump the iroquois in it? :mischief:

Maong a peace deal with the Babs might not be the best idea, so long as we are at war with them as a common enenmy we can do per turn deals with our allies, despite the "trashed rep". And despotic governments depend on "War Happiness". The minute you make peace the larger towns will threaten to riot.

Get some units on the Chinese border and on the other side of the Mongol and Carthage. We don't want any border towns undefended, though.

Sorry to do this to you but I'm going to have to ask for a skip. I haven't been able to start my turns yet and have a zillion and one RL things to do this week. I'm hoping next week will be less hectic and I'll be able to play then.

Sorry again guys :blush:

Mab

Roster check:

Pied Piper - up
eldar
Bede
Minute Man
Mab - took a skip
Tubby Rower - auto skip (out of town)

OK, back to me then anyway, I got it, or I will when I play tomorrow, gnight all.

Thanks piper! You'll play them better than I could have done anyway :crazyeye:

Did 6 turns so far. Only took back Grand River and New Bombay but MC will be ours next turn. Mostly building new cities but running out of room. There are definitely some cities (outside the core area) that should have been built one tile over to be able to fit in another city. Continuing the war with Babylon to make room for more cities. Mongols and Carthage joined dogpile on Iroquois, but I think they can handle it, so far.

Ok I'm back but it looks like I won't be playing for a while....

Several troop movement to reduce flip risk.
Must be careful about flip risk when founding new cities next to the border, even across water.
Change a few size 1 cities building settlers away from researching and back to growth.
Change a few size 3 cities away from growth and start researching. MilTrad in 10 turns now
Have noticed that several new cities have been placed that do not allow for high density packing.
In other words placing a city one tile over may allow another city to fit.
When building cities outside the core area we need to pack as many in as possible.

IBT:
Ent: knight>knight
Gerg: knight>market
Aged: settler>settler
Axima: library>cath
New Ebor: temple>settler
New Burd: temple>settler

960: 1
More troop movements

IBT:
England/Bab MA against us, then Babs ask for peace? Not on your life, as the case may be Hammy.
Bab longbow kills fortified MDI in the forest across river without a scratch.
Chengdu: settler>market
Shantung: settler>galley
Tolosa: galley>market
New Cat: temple>settler

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sg6pp4grandriver.jpg

970: 2
Embark on major road program in old Japan. All workers to build roads and then more roads.
Most other improvements are not productive or utilized at this time.

IBT:
Carthage/Bab MA against Iroquois
Osaka: settler>library
Alesia: musket>settler
Lugd: knight>knight
Rich: knight>knight
Mats: settler>worker

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sg6pp4newbombay.jpg

980: 3
Found New Axima, New Deva
Almost forgot, took back Grand River.

IBT:
Satsuma: settler>library
Grand River resistance ends
Camul: knight>settler
Nagoya: settler>settler
Verul: settler>knight
Ebor: Court>knight (actually get 4 shields instead of 3 now, guess its worth the gpt)
Nema: settler>settler
Segu: settler>settler

990: 4
Found New Lezoux, New Noviomagus, New Arausio
Lost MDI attacking MC

IBT:
Ent: Knight>knight
Chinan: cath>harbor
Deva: cath>harbor
New Madras: settler>settler
Arausio: settler>settler

1000: 5
Found New Durocortorum, Entremont 2, Alesia 2, Lugdunum 2 (Was wondering where I put those)
Mongols have Keshiks and have just poked their nose out at the border.
We have corruption creeping into the core now, Edo is only at 10% productivity now, was getting 2 shields before.

IBT:
Mongols/Bab MA vs Iroquois.
Three English galleys sail past Yangchow.
Alesia: settler>knight
Hakodate: settler>worker
Cat: galley>galley
Tolosa: galley>galley
Glevum: harbor>market
assorted temples

1010: 6
Found Camulodunum 2
We interrupt this game to play, what else, civ online with a friend, file will show a double save here.
Must remember to write up blitz plan for China, launch attack at capital with cavs from Seg and then any remaining cavs take out Canton as well
Now that we are running out of room I changed a few cities outside the core to culture improvements... especially if there is an aqueduct
...if they could scrape up 11 shields to get 2 productive ones.

IBT:
Iro/France peace

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sg6ppp4mauchchunk.jpg

1020: 7
Take Mauch Chunk
Sink Babs boat and get elite, got to love that artillery.
Found Richborough 2, Verulamium 2

IBT:
Viking spice deal expires, Extend peace treaty with Iroquois.
Trade Iron and Saltpeter for Astronomy/WM/12gpt, that should help them survive the dogpile while we conquer Babylon.
Carthage has ALOT of units streaming north past Grand River.
Punjab under assault, lose knight and Musket.
Research MilTrad>>Physics, Can now build Military Academy.
MC resistance ends.

1030: 8
Trade Iroquois MilTrad/WM/8gpt for Physics, Trade Physics to Carthage for Banking/WM
Rush walls in Punjab, Kill 4 cavs and redline another, sing the praises of the trebuchet.

IBT:
America/Babylon MA against us

1040: 9
FOund Augustodurum 2, Gergovia 2

IBT:
America takes NEw Shanghai, Scand/France peace

1050: 10
Found Eboracum 2
Leave quite a few units unmoved, mainly around the Babylon front and the core "threatened" by English ships.
Need to upgrade a few more cavs before pushing north I believe. Also need to suppress resistance in New Bombay.
Room for several settlements in south Japan but we need to conquer area to handle the settlers in the pipeline.
If it is necessary to make peace with Babylon (which I don't believe) then China is looking like it is ready to topple.

Have it, play it tomorrow.

Roster check:

Pied Piper -just played
eldar - up
Bede -on deck
Minute Man
Mab
Tubby Rower

Apathy issues today... play tomorrow instead.

I went to the first spoiler thread and read the first post and stopped there and shut down that window when I saw that we couldn't read it until someone from our team has posted our summary. Has anyone done that? I didn't look because I didn't want to jeopardize our team from being disqualified.

I'm not good at writing summaries....Is there a qualified person that has the time to do it?

The wording for the spoiler is a bit draconian I admit. If you meet the conditions for the spoiler, then read it by all means. I would just prefer it if one person wrote a summary of the game before everyone else piles in with their 2 cents. :)

:bump: eldar, any progress?

Umm, refer to my previous post. Also COTM10 has gotten me bogged down. And I'm hiding from SGs since my TR03 turns :blush:

Oh it wasn't that bad. Have you read my turnset in TR03. we're not in dire straights.

@ eldar, So, you taking a skip?

And just so you all can satisfy your curiousity I'll write the spoiler today, maybe

Bede, I guess you'd be next if so.

I'm not skipping - I'm leaving work now and should get it played this evening, barring incident and accident.

S'right. Okay, cool.

looking forward to reading that spoiler thread :D :crazyeye: :eek:
Good luck with the turns eldar

Whoever's next... have fun:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede_1150ad.jpg

In other news:
0 1050 Move some troops around.

IT: Galley survives two English attacks. America vs Iro. Keshiks appear out of Carthage, East Japan. Babs impale on a stack I left on a mountain.

1 1060 Kill a few Babs, but not much else happens.

IT: Iro/Viking peace. English ships run away. Lots of Wonders are being built with tech we don't have.

2 1070 Babylon is Industrial. I pray she's not got Rifles.

IT: America/China MA vs us!

3 1080 For the number of wars we're in, not much going on. Our military is thinly spread.

IT: France/Babylon vs us!

4 1090 An Evil English Redlined Galley sinks both a Caravel and a Galley. Boo!

IT: Carthage/Iro peace. Vikings/Babylon vs. us.

5 1100 Run around mopping up. We're reacting more than acting, but I should be able to move into China in a bit.

IT: Oh dear… now Carthage has signed in against us. France vs Iros.

6 1110 Okay, I have to sign peace with Babs now. They're scary - they are catching us in culture. But Carthage needs to be dealt with. Sign peace with England too. Hand Grand River and New Bombay to Iros because they're toast to Carthage anyway.

IT: England/Babylon vs Iros.

7 1120
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede_beijing_falls.jpg

'nuff said :D

IT: Oh dear. Babs/Viking EMBARGO. Yes, Nationalism is about. Babs/Iro peace.

8 1130 Capture Shanghai from China and Centralia from Carthage. Sign peace with Abe.

IT: Lots of Carthage troops appear.

9 1140 We may lose the Knight Army - an attack on Hippo left it on 5hps deep in enemy territory. Tsingtao captured from China.

IT: Carthage forces move on Mauch Chunk.

10 1150 Shanghai's Spears provide tougher than the rest of the Chinese put together… two Knights redline and retreat. China, though, will be off our backs in a turn or two. Peace for towns, and no need to worry about them ever again. The Battle of Mauch Chunk... could be nasty. Fingers crossed and pray, but I don't think it'll hold.

And finally: The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1150_01.SAV)

Neil. :cool:

I'm glad Bede's up on this one, TR03 was stressful enough. I hope things settle down a bit before I get it again....

Just on a training note, Is it best to attack the Num. merc stacks with knights? Aren't they 1.4? that's some crazy defense they have...

Roster check:

Pied Piper
eldar - Almost finished off the Chinese
Bede - up
Minute Man - on deck
Mab
Tubby Rower

They're 2.3.1, and sitting on a mountain. There are two Med Inf hidden in that stack, the rest are Mercs and most are Regs. I'm kinda hoping Mauch holds. There's a few Cannon in there that should even the odds.

Anyone know if defensive bombardment shot takes into account terrain? I'd prefer to have 8 vs 3 def. bombard, but 8 vs 6 still isn't terrible.

I got so excited when I saw that pile of NuMercs that I forgot to post a "Got it".

So here we go....

This is what they started with

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede_1150ad.jpg

This is what's left:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/TeamBede_1250_01.jpg

I did have a little help from my friends

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/TeamBede_1150_01.jpg

who were suitably rewarded

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/TeamBede_1150_00.jpg

Don't think I've ever seen a 12 town nation pay quite so much for fur trim for their hats before. I think I'm guilty of profiteering.


That little diversion worked a treat as the Mongols absorbed most of strays heading toward Mauch Chunk and killed some of the rest.

So in 1170 we cannoneer the crew of NuMercs at Mauch Chunk and kill one with an elite cavalry looking for a promotion, then hunker down again. The orhers move off to heal. (This process is repeated several times throughout the set, but in different locations focused on our eastern towns. Wound most of them with all those lovely cannon, kill one or two depending on how many healthy cavalry or knights are on hand then watch the others wander off.)

There is a major threat heading towards Centralia which is covered by a single cavalryman.

The Chinese are paper tigers, Xinjan and Macao are ours for very light casualties and no losses and now they are off the continent. They will give us what little cash they have for peace and will throw in Navigation for Physics but I don't want Navigation so I take their 2gpt and bid them begone to their jungle islands. I didn't even inquire about any towns as the last thing I want are undefensible outposts....

Clean up a few more Carthaginain invaders and the threat to Maunch Chunk is in abeyance. Now to worry about Centralia...Move the knight army and a couple of wounded cavalry to cover the mountain road and then to Centralia next turn. Two more healthy cavalry are making their way down the spine of old Japan.

By 1180 the Carthaginian squads have been whittled in half and most are wounded.

In 1200 take 100 gold pieces out of Joan's tunic for a peace treaty. Then sign a peace treaty with Ragnar and get Magnetism for 290 gold pieces. Then use our new attractive powers and our extra horses to buy wool from the Iroquois. Buy Gems from England for Dyes and Metallurgy.

Our people are now very happy and it is time to apply the whip....

Turn our research off and hire a few collectors.

In 1210 attack Malacca and a leader spawns. And we begin the process of bringing Carthage to its knees with Mosby's Raiders, an invading force of cavalry, a Gallic army and knights. The leader forms a cavalry army and heads the Mobile Strike Force in the east.

In 1240 sign an RoP with Hiawatha so he can do a better job of killing Mongols, then renegotiate the Peace Treaty and pay him salpeter, iron, furs and 60gpt for Theory of Gravity.

And in 1250 eliminate most of the Carthaginian invaders with the Mobile Strike Force and Mosby's Raiders are heading across Carthage after leaving one town cut off and starving (it lost two pop points in three turns)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/TeamBede_1250_00.jpg

The key to defending the east is to keep the forces moving. Shift cannon, muskets and fast attack as needed to swat the Carthaginians. There have been no additional troops coming from Carthage since about 1200 so I would say they are done to a turn.

The pillagers are moving east to west across Carthage towards Carthage. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200 but head directly to Carthage pillaging as you go. Keep them together and don't fight any battles, this is a Mosby raid.

Isolate the capitol then move on east to Hippo where they can join up with the Mobile Defense and the artillery and then start capturing cities with bombardment support. Only one cavalryman and one knight was lost in the last ten turns, and that is how we want to fight this one, minimal losses and maximal damage to the enemy. If you are attacking, attack only the wounded and the crippled.

In the rest of the world the only terrain improvements needed are irrigated plains, roads and forests chopped outside the core. Mines and irrigation are unnecessary. I planted over twenty new towns so keep an eye on the growth and whip those temples.

Do not spare the whip!!! If a town is pop 3 has its temple and has growth in one, whip a settler. If it is pop 4 and has its temple and you have ten shields in the box whip a settler. In the new towns whip the temple as soon as the population gets to two.

We can build the Pentagon now but I wouldn't waste the shields, bigger armies are no help when you need to defend the swath of territory we have. And the Military Academy is useless until we get railroads and factories built, if ever.

This is Religious Warfare, a Celtic Jihad. Temples and settlers and cavalry and muskets are what we need. (I did build a few longbows for cheap MP's and their defensive shot).


Culture per turn grew by 85 points. Babylon is no threat to us, culturally, they are a major threat militarily. Build new towns in the interior of old China, or on the borders of Carthage and Mongolia, not on the coasts or the borders of Babylon, so protective garrisons are not needed. as we will assimilate both of those nations in the next twenty or so turns anyway.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1250_01.SAV)

WOW that's pretty amazing!! Great job Bede! I guess MM is up now

Pied Piper
eldar
Bede - saved our hide
Minute Man - up
Mab - on deck
Tubby Rower

Pied Piper
eldar
Bede - saved our hide
Minute Man - up
Mab - on deck
Tubby Rower

Never was a truer word spoken! Good one Bede! :goodjob: :king: :goodjob:

Anyone got any predictions on how many more turns it'll be before the big victory?

We have to shake off Babylon first. And it won't be anywhere near the best time.
Good news is we're only 3 techs shy of Communism! Hurrah!

Here is a draft of the spoiler. Make any changes you want and post them to this thread. Once all have seen it and commented I will put it up.

Team Bede:
mabellino
Tubby Rower
MinuteMan
eldar
Pied Piper
Bede

C3C


Settled Entremont on the spot and built five warriors for scouting duty and barbarian control.

Given the restrictions on government we needed land, cities and population and for that we need military and settlers more than anything. Initial efforts were spent building the five core cities that would provide those two latter items to produce the former three.

Our exploration efforts paid off (built two curraghs as soon as we knew Alphabet) and we met the Mongols, Chinese and Carthaginians by 2550BC (T30); Japan, Iroquois and Indians by 1250BC (T70) and the rest of the world by 50AD.

In 1000BC we had completed our core towns, set them up with temples and barracks and were taking a run at the Statue of Zeus. We had won the Philosophy race and taken Currency and had a nice inventory of knowledge to sell but the other nations lacked cash to buy them :sad:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/TeamBede_1000BC_00.jpg

It became obvious early that Japan had the nicest, closest ground, they were growing quickly and represented a serious threat to our cultural domination. So in 1000BC opened embassies with everbody, declared war on Japan after buying Ploytheism from them for Currency, and made alliances with Mongols and Iroquois. We had no intentions of fighting them ourselves of course, the purpose was to keep them busy while we blooded our Gallic Swords on the Chinese.

The only meaningful result of the first phase of the Japanese war is that the Iroquois started their Golden Age, Japan's economy diverged to military production so that by 550BC our culture growth was greater than theirs, and the Japanese and Iroquois traded a couple of Iroquois cities back and forth. The Japanese never entered Celtic lands while we prepared for war with the Chinese.

What we didn't know was hidden in the fog were the two real powerhouses, France and Babylon. France became a known factor when they built the Statue of Zeus in 800BC and followed that up with the Temple of Artemis in 710BC. Both of these wonders were on our list, the Statue for the mounted attackers to supplement our Gallics and the Temple for the free temples in newly founded or captured cities once our army was unleashed. At that point we didn't even know where they were to mount an offensive even if we had had the troops to do so.

It took some time to prepare the Chinese Expedition but by 470BC (T104) we were ready to roll with Gallics, cats and archers. And by 370BC (T109) the war was done and we gained five more cities and some more territory to fill with Celtic towns and temples and our Golden Age begun just in time to research those expensive Middle Ages technologies, Monotheism first.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/TeamBede_350BC_01A.jpg

In 310BC we began to prosecute the Japanese war in earnest with a landing in force on the spur northeast of Matsayuma and a Recon force at Yokohama.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/TeamBede_350BC_01.jpg

It is a long and bloody haul across Japan, with many incidents along the way, though our forces are generally victorious. Former allies declare war on us because we have been neglecting them, or they make alliances with our enemy because we have been slighting them. Cities are captured from Japan, then lost to India, then re-captured, then lost to some third party, then recaptured.

Babylon, Mongolia and Carthage all at one point or another in the campaign declare on us or ally against us. More than once we are at war with the entire map, though only Carthage, the Mongols and Babylon are any real threats to our territorial ambitions.

We learn Gunpowder in 450AD and have a full world map in 850AD.

Finally in 790AD Japan is no more and we are ready for a short breather to consolidate our gains and plan our next invasion.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/TeamBede_850BC_00.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/TeamBede_850BC_01.jpg

There are still the Mongols to be dealt with but they are a small threat as we have crippled their economy with a pillaging mission with our Gallic swords, so it should be a matter of mopping up.

Then, in 890AD Babylon attacks our weakly defended lands in old Japan.....

More to come, but that would be telling....

Our objectives right now are to hold on to what we have, claw our way into the Industrial Age with cash, resources and extortion, finish the Chinese, and the Mongols and Carthage, and Babylon and America and Scandanavia.....all the while painting our conquests green and converting the world to our religion.

Got it. Will probably take a couple of days to get it played.

Spoiler looks good, Bede. I can't think of anything to add.

Good news is we're only 3 techs shy of Communism! Hurrah!

Do we even want communism? Keep in mind that every city we build will increase corruption everywhere, so there does come a point where nothing is productive anymore, and we'd be better off in another government (yes, probably even despotism). I don't know what that point is, but this is exactly the sort of game where we're likely to hit it.

Communism is just the ticket for this kind of game. On this size map with the FP and SPHQ, OCN will be at least 1/3 greater than our current city count. Our OCN at the moment is only about 40 so you are right, every town we build adds corruption and waste.

SPHQ is, what 200 shields? University pre-build sounds good. Also I've been stealthily building Courts in the odd core city. As long as we get Courts there, we should be fine once we switch.

Looks good Bede. You're a lot better at the words-thing than I am.

As far as Communism goes, I'd get there ASAP. The courts should help. Are we building libraries and Universities all over too. Should we start the pre-build for the SPHQ now in a 2nd tier city?

Loved the spoiler, interesting and nice and concise. Pictures say a 1000 words and all....
Does this mean we can go and read the spoiler?

@MM
Do you think you'll be played before Sunday? I might struggle to complete my turns if they're on a work day :blush:

Does this mean we can go and read the spoiler?Mad-bax said that we could go ahead and read the spoiler if we had met the requirements for the thread other the write-up part. He said that was put there to encourage people to post something about their game. I went ahead and read it and it looks like only team Tao (not conquests) has posted anything so far. I'm curious to see how many of the other C3C teams got the ToA...

Don't worry about Courthouses in the core close to the Palace, FP and the SPHQ when built. The SPHQ should go in the town with the third highest productivity after the capitol and the FP city. The biggest benefit of Courthouses will come in the outlying towns.

Progress report: I've played five turns, and nothing terribly exciting has happened. The city of Carthage has now mostly been returned to a pristine wilderness, and the march on Hippo is about to start. And I've founded a bunch of towns and whipped a bunch of temples. Should be able to play the rest tomorrow night.

Oh, and there's a rumor going around other threads that a certain venerable leader of ours just had a birthday yesterday, and I can't very well let it pass without mentioning it in this thread. :D So a big (if slightly belated) :bday: to Bede.

Spoiler posted.

I missed your birthday too Bede. Sorry. :(

Hope you had a great day. :D

Not too much of interest happened on my turns. The city of Carthage has been pillaged and is rapidly shrinking, and the forces from the east met up with troops from the west at Hippo, which fell easily in 1290. The troops are currently repositioning to attack Utica. Total casualties on my turns: 0.

The Iroquois have been taking it on the chin - by the end of my turns, they were reduced to an island OCC. This broke a great big trade we had with them; we lost wool, but got a bunch of gpt and luxes we were sending them back.

The Mongols and Carthaginians have been spending most of their energy fighting each other. A massive Mongolian naval landing (one Keshik) captured Malaca (the Carthaginian city to the south of Japan). But mostly they've been milling about and attacking each other's troops. On my last turn, I founded a city on the Mongolian border that brought what I think is the only Mongolian source of horses into our territory.

Most of the stronger nations have Steam Power and Nationalism, but nobody will deal with us, so I couldn't buy anything. I'm not sure what we're going to do about the tech situation.

Our culture increased from 535 to 593 per turn, and our city count went from 136 to 154. We've got settlers piling up on the Carthaginian border because there isn't anywhere else left to send them. Once the military advances a little bit more, it should be safe to go settle some of the gaps.

Important note: On my very last turn, Babylon started moving some troops into our territory. I'm not sure what they're up to, but I smell a sneak attack in the making. I guess Hammurabi just doesn't like me, for some reason. Anyway, I'm leaving the decision on what to do about this to the next player. Most of the defenders along the Babylonian border are unmoved, so feel free to rearrange them as you see fit.

Roster check:

Pied Piper
eldar
Bede
Minute Man - just played
Mab - up!
Tubby Rower - on deck

And The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1300_01.SAV).

Hmmm. Good job MM. That bit about the techs and Hammi coming in scares me.

Nationalism means we will start seeing riflemen. We have 27 cav and 13 knights. Is there any issue with upgrading those knights? or do we not have the money?

Sorry for the double post but I was wondering if we shouldn't knock Hammi back a bit. According to Mad-Bax. Hammi, Joan, & the now defunct Japan were custom made to be the strongest in this game. I think that if we don't do something about our strongest neighbor it might be harder to deal with later. M-B said it was done that way to "make the end game more interesting". Here is a suggestion. I haven't thought it all of the way out yet but it's an idea.

Make peace with Carthage & Ugly. Go directly after Hammi and beat him back. We might want to see if we can get Joan in on it too to use up some her forces.

Here's a screenie (since we hadn't seen one in a while) from crpViewer (since I don't have Civ at work):http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sgotm_bede_1300AD.jpg

Have to vote against a Babylonian adventure, at least at this point. There is too much opportunity for land in Carthage and the "belt buckle" in Mongolia and before we take on Babylon seriously we need railroads and the belt buckled.

Prepare for war on the Babylon front, by all means. Keep the towns defended ( a circulating army works well for this). The important question is how many troops and what kind is he shifting around our borders. If it is more than a couple of stray rifles then brace for a sneak attack. Just make sure we can bribe Joan, America and the Viking into the battle with us.

Like I said I hadn't thought it out yet. That's why I put it out there in case it was a good idea. Looking at the map, it'd be nice to get some Celtic cities in that belt buckle

Actually it is more than a couple of rifles, more like a half dozen cavalry, so Hammi is on the way in with blood in his eye. He is vectoring in from the NE (old India) and also from the center of the Japan line. There are at least two towns immediately at risk and he can strike at least two fields across the border.

There is no way to prevent the attack that I can think of. Try to renegotiate peace and buy a tech from him with all our gpt, if possible, if we can't get a tech, take his money as a loan. So when he declares we get the money or the tech and get the gpt back.

Cover as much of the border as you can, then boot his troops and when he declares,and he will, kill as many of his attackers as possible and hope that is enough to hold the border.

More later...

I realize that not everyone looks through the SG's so do you want to explain the Military Alliance thing that you & dman explained to us in TR03? Or does it not apply in this case?

Wait I was just looking @ MapStat and it said that we were at war with the Iroquois but we are not at war with the Mongols??? Is that correct? How did that happen and why are we still at war with them?

Will post more later on the diplomatic issues here.

As for the Iro and Mongols: I allied with the Mongols against Carthage and when the Iro got booted to the their bolthole our trade route busted. Since the deal with them hinged on a renegotiated peace treaty we are automatically at war with them. Just another one of the problems of the busted alliance with Hammi....

So is our per turn rep now trashed?

I think our per turn rep was trashed ages ago!

I'll be playing later today, suppose it'll be a baptism of fire against the Babs. Any cities that we MUST protect? (and don't say all of them!)

How many armies do we have? And what's the betting that all the coal is smack bang in the middle of Babylon! Or, having finally hooked up our coal, all our iron mysteriously disappears :lol: :eek:

They can only reach the border towns of old Japan. Watch for them coming from the northeast by old India and from the center.

The diplomatic issues are complex. If you think you can hold them off then don't make any alliances and just take the pain. If you do make alliances do not ally with the Mongol.

Just remember to hit them first if they are in our territory and get what you can from them before you do...

playing last few turns now... sorry for the delay

:bump:, Mab, are you there? :whipped:

Thirty-six hours and no word from Leeds. :dubious: :shakehead: :gripe:

Tubby Rower - can you play this one tonight, 3/24? From MM's save if Mab hasn't posted?
Pied Piper - TR is heading out of town and might not be able to play tonight. Can you?
eldar
Bede
Minute Man
Mab - can you post today, 3/24, before Tubby picks it up? If not claim a skip, please.

Yes. I'll play tonight with MM's save if mab doesn't post. I'll have to pack tonight since we're leaving tomorrow, but don't worry my priorities are in order....civ then pack. After all how long does it take to throw some underwear in a suitcase?

Any suggestions, on what's going on? I'll go back and re-read up to MM's post, but I don't want to screw this up.

AFAIK, Hammi is screwing us in old India and I have to weather the storm. Continue march on the Mongol horde and convert Carthage to a history lesson.

Thanks. TR.

Going to be a challenge dealing with Hammi. Be flexible.

And have some fun.

I think that I know why Mab hasn't reported back.... I'm in the second turn burnt up an hour of time. and here are the stats...

interturn: Babs declare and take 2 cities
re-up peace with ugly
America declared on Iroquois (no trades available since Hiawatha isn't talking to us)

T1: took back 1 city with knight army
changed a ton of settler builds to cathedrals or othre culture buildings
took Utica

Interturn: alliance against Carthage with Ugly is over
lost 5 cities to babs
took Carthage and Leptis Magna

So lost 7 cities and gained 4. Next turn I expect us to loose at least 5 cities. we can either loosely defend a few cities or strongly defend fewer. there are no units in old Japan. I suspect that it might be old Celtic territory soon.

Carthage is hurting bad. The Mongols are taking it to them. The other thing that REALLY, REALLY worries me is that Hammi has infantry!!! Two of our old cities are defended by these new rubberized soldiers. Hammi is just letting his answering machine pick up the phone.

I can't play anymore turns. 2 turns was all I could do. The Interturns are going super slow.

1310 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede_SG006_1310AD.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sgotm6_1310.JPG

Ouch. Looks like the house of cards is tumbling down.

m-b promised an exciting middle game, looks like we got it.

Cover the borders to the core....and hope the phone wires to Babylon get repaired and that Hammi's got no oil.

24 Hours ago I could have done this, but now I won't have any time until Sunday or Monday.

Roster check:

eldar -UP
Bede - on deck
Minute Man
Mab
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper

eldar is going to be out for the weekend too. I have ~ 4 hours before I leave. Then I'll be just lurking around in the forums for the next few days. It seems like you just played Bede, but it's back to you unless you want to let this sit over the weekend

I really hate letting games sit. But let's re-arrange the roster this way:


Bede - swapped with Piper
Pied Piper - on deck
eldar
Minute Man
Mab
Tubby Rower

Just checking in to see what's up.

Desperate times, desperate measures.

We're going to need more than just a little help from our friends here. Much as I hate to do it it is time to call on the big dogs and give up some territory.

The diplomatic advisor tells me that France has a Mutual Protection Pact with Lincoln and that her people are impressed with our culture.

So I give up the towns most exposed to the Babylonian cavalry to Joan, the sign an alliance with her against Babylon.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM6_Bede_1310_00.jpg

When Hammurabi takes the towns that will trigger war with America as well. So I get two partners for the price of one, Haamurabi's forces will expose themselves deeper into our territory and, maybe, just maybe, I can get those towns back.

Then I try to set up the troops in old Japan, with reinforcements from home, to pinch off any further Babylonian advance.


Into the city screens to squeeze some more income and I improve the cash flow to 60gpt from not much, rushing a little culture along the way.

Abe co-operates with our plan and signs a Mutual Protection pact with Ragnar. So now when the Americans go to war with Babylon, the Vikings will join the fray as well.

Move order: America-Carthage-Mongols-French-Babylon

America is now at war with Babylon.

Scandanavia is at war with Babylon.

Babylon takes New Glanum with a single cavlaryman. I'll get it back next. Then he falls into the trap by capturing New Camuldunum and razing the town whose name history has forgot, then captures New Curovernum and Rutupiae (he's got a few more free cavalrymen than I thought), Curovernum is next, Satsuma holds, and New Isca but Eboracum 2 is taken.

1315
Retake Eboracum2 and rename it Hope. Then retake Curvernum, which will concede Toyama to Babylon. Retake Rutupiae which I will try to hold and then recapture New Curovernum.

And Babylon is now in anarchy :D on their way to Fascism.

Ship Abe some horses for 450g after verifying the trade route security. I'd send him some saltpeter but I'm not sure the sources will remain under our control.

China joins in against Babylon allied with America.

Babylon takes Toyama, New Lapurdum and Rutupiae, New Isca, New Agedincum, New Axima.

1320
Recapture New Agedincum.

Curovernum falls but Babylon has run out of rooster as no more attacks are made....

1325
Retake Rutupiae.

Sell Lincoln Furs for 679g. And Joan Incense for 1039g.

Mongols sign a Peace Treaty with Carthage,

There are no Babylonian advances and the troops moving into position are longbows and maces.

1330
Take Leptis Minor, losing a cavalryman. Attack Sabratha and Boudicca reappears. Attack again after forming a new army and Cunobelinis is born. And another cavalry assault takes the town.

Retake Curovernum.

Rutupiae changes hands once more.

1335
And take Rutupiae back again.With cash in the bank turn on the research hose. Hiawatha will talk so relieve him of his treasury for a Peace Treaty.

The Mongols declare on the Iroquois allied with China.

And New Eboracum is back in Babylon's hands.

1340
Can't muster enough force to retake New Ebiracum but knocking a NuMerc off his mountain perch gets yet another army.

The Mongols betray us and sign an alliance with Babylon.

Osaka falls to Babylon.

1345
Osaka is back in our hands.

Then the Mongols betray Babylon and sign an alliance with America against Babylon.

The Mongols burn Montvale near Almarikh.

1350
Retake New Eboracum, again. Stabilize the Mongolian and Punic fronts by killing their troops approaching Carthage and Darhan.

Things are pretty stable in old Japan. The only attackers Hammi has been able to muster for some time now are healed up cavalry from the first wave and a cuople of maces, two longbows and a guerilla. Mongols are not much of a threat, I think.

There is a pile of settlers fortified on a mountain in old Japan. Send 'em east once things quiet down with the Mongols.

There is an empty army heading towards the coast of old Japan and some new cavalry handy to fill it. I've been shipping fresh troops across the straits from the core to old Japan and using them to keep the Babylonian cavlary suppressed. If they get healthy they slip out and capture a town but never in more than couples. What I don;t want ot have happen is for that lone infantryman to get loose and fortified in a captured cuty. It is unlikely as that appears to be the only grunt handy.

Research is full on to Steam Power instead if Nationalism. We need to know where the coal is and to get started on railing up the core and getting rails stitched across the two ends of the belt.

An major offensive against the Mongols is not in the cards right now as I would rather wait on that until Carthage is bottled up north of that little neck in their territory.

Just swat any Mongols that appear. There are a cannon and a couple of muskets with cavlary handy heading toward Tabriz. It would be nice to take that little ville as it provides a handy place for taking any Mongol invasions oin the flank as they head across the mountains.

No longer so Desperate but not out of the woods yet (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1350_01.SAV)

It takes a long time to play these turns so take however many you are comfortable with. The concentration needed is immense.

Roster check:

Pied Piper - up
eldar
Minute Man
Mab
Tubby Rower
Bede

The Fronts:

Babylon:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM6_Bede_1350_00.jpg

Celtic Carthage

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM6_Bede_1350_01.jpg

Mongol

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM6_Bede_1350_02.jpg


The Neck at Theveste

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM6_Bede_1350_03.jpg

Nice work Bede!!! well worth the wait. I agree on the taking only as many turns as you can take. Don't rush this. This is a critical point in SGOTM6_Bede history. I'm glad that I didn't just try to get all of my turns in when I was rushed and passed them off to someone that knew what he was doing.

Just to clarify, we are now at war with Carthage, Mongols, & Babylon. Is everyone except England at war with Babylon?

t is a world at war. The only one sitting it out is Liz. China, America, Mongols, Carthage at war with Iroquois, too.

Our real challenge is going to be Babylon's culture. They are within 7000 of us, growing only slightly slower, so nailing the 2X will be interesting turns.

I think we'll need to go on a razing mission in Babylonian ex-India/New York State (aka Iroquoisland). I also think 5-turn sets from now on might suit better.

Oh, and I'm back :) Nice going Brother B!

Sorry about going MIA... got that nasty flu bug that's been floating around Blighty recently..

I managed 8 turns in but like TR says the interturns take forever, as for all those units... bleurgh! My turn log was a little similar, but unlike Bede I didn't have the brainwave involving America etc... That was amazing! :goodjob:

I noticed bab's culture... is there anyway at all (clutching at straws here) to take them out or at least knock them down several pegs before we approach the golden 100k? Best case scenario would be for us to find all the coal in our lands and steam right ahead (bad pun!) with our mega production. We have a zillion and one workers anyway. When do arties become available? is it Rubber? (hope not :( )

Anyway... I'm back and feeling loads better so am available to play again. I think the play as many turns as you can approach is going to be a big help in speeding up turnsets. good luck whoever's next!

Would love to play this now but I can barely breath at the moment. Will have to take a pass on this, it will be a day or two till I recover. I certainly don't have the concentration to do this. Good luck Eldar.

Artillery is still a long ways off. So we are going to be using cannon for a bit longer.

And Babylon will need to be trimmed big time before they get to 50K.

Roster check:
eldar - up
Minute Man - on deck
Mab - glad your healthy again
Tubby Rower
Bede
Pied Piper - Get Well soon.

Hopefully Joan and Abe can do some trimming of the important Bab cities - i.e. the ones pumping out most culture. Of course what we don't want to see is the northern part of that map turning red....

Got it. Playing now. I'll do 5 tonight. I won't be keeping detailed notes; it'll probably slow me down too much.

[Edit] Scratch that, playing 10. We got peace with Babylon, and I'm taking the opportunity to mop up stray Carthaginians and Mongols.

More bad, more plain ugly, and some good....

0 1350 Inspect our forces. We haven't got many. Inspect the Babylonian INFANTRY across the border, and :cry:

IT: France destroy the Iros. Babs take out Hope, another Infantry is visible…

1 1355 Re-take Hope.

IT: England/Vikings vs Babylon. Viking/Carthage Embargo vs us. Carthage burn Cove Beach.

2 1360 Not much; there are too many enemy units at our borders, and not enough of ours to deal with them safely. All the Bab captured get Infantry right away - dissuading me from attacking with the Armies.

IT: Babylon/France peace :( Babs capture Matsuyama… then Dry Point... then Osaka... Rats, France was our only alliance and Babs wanted to talk peace in the IT!!

3 1365 Dial up Hammi. Peace for 260. Territory loss is bad, and my diplomacy screwed up again :( Get out the whip. A recent thread about whipping got me an idea. You can't whip more than 50% of a town's citizens - but you can switch to a build 20 shields less, whip, move up 20 shields, whip again... So e.g. size 3, Library in 38, switch to Granary, whip, switch back to Library, whip. Voila. Capture Oea from Carthage. Desperate times, desperate measures... use a Musket and a redlined Cav to kill two Mongol LBs next to undefended cities. Both win.

IT: France/America MPP - that should lead to... France vs Babylon Rd 2!

4 1370 Turn down Sci, Steam now in 9. Take out Malaca.

IT: Osaka flips back to us :dance:

5 1375 Clean up enemies.

IT: Carthage re-take Carthage!! A lone Cav sneaked through a gap I didn't spot… city was undefended, sorry!! The battle for Tabriz is won - it flips to us!

6 1380 Re-take Carthage. Capture Grand River, Rusaddir.

7 1385 Catpure New Bombay.

IT: Babylon/China peace.

8 1390 Not much.

9 1395 Capture St Regis.

10 1400 Not quite enough movement to capture the main Carthaginian targets. Suggest razing Theveste and planting a town 1S of where the Merc is currently stationed, and another 1NW of where Theveste is now. It should be fairly clear what most units are up to. The 4 Settlers in a row in former Iroland are ready to plant next go. Another trick for a quick Temple after a capture of a size 3 town (size 4, can whip 2nd turn anyway). Whip Walls first (after 1 turn), then switch and finish the Temple. Why we didn't think to part-rush stuff earlier, I don't know.... Some forces are going west from the core, but we should soon have enough to go east and meet in the middle of Mongolia. If we can get a spare Army for a pillaging mission to prepare the ground, it might be a good idea. Oh, and Steam Power is finally due next turn!

Well, it could be worse.... (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1400_01.SAV)

Neil. :cool:

And some pretty pictures...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede_theveste_arena.jpg
Figure 1 - Plans For Theveste?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede_pink_dots.jpg
Figure 2 - Settle on the Pink Dot. And maybe Pink Dot. Pink Dot too. Pink Dot looks good to me.

Looking better.

Bab culture growth is slowing, that's good. So is ours, not so good, but not so much, that's okay.

@eldar, Good catch on the short whip. I'm afraid I thought everybody was familiar with the technique so didn't provide a tutorial. Yours is better than mine would have been anyway. Thanks.
Roster check

Minute Man - up
Mab - hope you're feeling better
Tubby Rower
Bede
Pied Piper - get well soon
eldar - moved us forward and finally we begin to see some favorable conversion.

Got it. Not sure if I'll get through the full 10 or not; we'll see how it goes.

Oh, and Steam Power is finally due next turn!

That's good news. We need railroads in the worst way.

@ Eldar, don't beat yourself up about the short whipping, I know I did it once or twice so we haven't wasted every opportunity!

Great turns btw, seems the tide may finally be on the turn against the hated Babs!

I'm back to full health now... thanks for the concern! Now if I could just sort out the stress from my impending wedding as easily... :mischief: :lol:

Now if I could just sort out the stress from my impending wedding as easily... :mischief: :lol:

Having done this recently myself, I have two tips:
1. Get drunk.
2. Don't spill red wine on your mother-in-law's expensive new suit.

I tried to make it through all ten turns, but I ran out of time after eight.

Steam Power came in on my first turn, and we have plenty of coal (two in southern Japan, one near the Mongol border, one more on the Babylonian frontier), so I spent a lot of time building railroads (and beefing up our worker force, which was very much inadequate). I concentrated on east-west lines and managed to connect Entremont to the Mongol front and the Amazon to Carthage. So troop movement is much easier now.

I managed to lose a near-full-strength cavalry army to one stupid musket at Theveste, but aside from that, the war went pretty well. Carthage developed Nationalism a few turns in, so I blockaded Hannibal and turned my attention to the Mongols. On my last turn, I took Karakorum and was assembling forces for an assault on Almarikh; we're getting really close to having a connected empire.

Dry Point and New Camulodunum flipped back to us. That's the nice thing about playing a 100K game....

Here's what the war zone looks like now:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SG6-Bede-1440AD.jpg

We have a ridiculous number of settlers piling up to the east of the Mongols, who hopefully can be usefully employed once we clear out a couple more cities.

>>>The Save<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1440_01.SAV)

Go talk to Mao - he'll give us outdated techs and a bit of gpt for Physics and/or Metallurgy. We should burn some of our cash on Nationalism; I'd suggest 80%, which is -292gpt. After we run out of cash, fall back to 0% and see if anyone will sell (nobody will right now). France appear to be politest of the AIs right now.

Mongolia at least looks ready to fall.

Ok I'm finally back and I've been keeping abreast of things while I was gone. It looks like things might be getting better but not out of the woods yet.

Glad to hear your feeling better mab, also good luck on the wedding....

back on topic, Is American and France still hitting the Babylonians?

Will Carthage give techs for peace?? Since we have them on an isolated pennisula we could sue for peace and get a cheap tech. Plant an undefended city near their border and get them to attackso we could finish them off.

As far as Mongolia is concerned, I'd take out the northern cities first (to connect our empire and remove their production cities) then go for the tundra cities to finish them off.

Well it looks like I'm going to have a lot more time on my hands from tomorrow... remember I was ill? Well my employers are probably going to sack me tomorrow for taking 3 days off sick (without pay!) :mad: I'm on a temporary contract with a week's notice period and my other half got a phonecall from the agency at 5.30 (while I was at the doctors!) saying I shouldn't go into work tomorrow and to phone the agency asap. Doesn't sound good, does it? :(

Still... bright side get loads more time to play Civ! :goodjob:

I'll let you know tomo :rolleyes:

Back o/t... great job there minute man... that coal'll really help the war effort

They sure know when to hit you, don't they, Mab? Glad you're fit again, though.

Roster check:
Mab - not redundunt here, glad you're back
Tubby Rower - on deck
Pied Piper
eldar
Bede
Minute Man

Guess this means I'm up :crazyeye:
Just had the phonecall.. "regretfully... blah blah blah"
Now where are those pesky enemy troops to blast into smithereens...? (vents anger icon)

Any suggestions from the team before I plough in?

Mab

Sorry to hear about the job. Don't be too aweful aggressive with the war plans. It seems as though we've been burned a few times for being stretched too thin. And remember the culture thing.

I'd suggest finishing off the Mongols, do what you will with Carthage, then get the troops ready by the Babylonian border.

Oh, and build railroads :D

I'll be playing in a bit, nice advice re the too much agression. You guys have shown me the way of the warmonger and how to sneakily get what you want from the AI.

On a slightly more o/t note... what time is it in the US (east and west coasts?)

On a slightly more o/t note... what time is it in the US (east and west coasts?)
currently
12:02 pm April 1 on East coast
9:02 AM aon the west coast.

Daylight savings starts on Sunday 1:00AM and then it jump immediately to be 2:00AM

darn.. bit late for an April Fool then? was going to post saying our capital had been taken and the babs were about to destroy us :satan: :rotfl: :devil:
I'm a bit too drunk to play now... will play in 10 or so hours :ar15:

no it's still April Fool's day for another 9.5 hours on the east coast and 12.5 hours on the west coast, but the cat's out of the bag so you can't do that now!

@Mab, :bump:

just finishing up... been at the folks for dinner

just finishing up... been at the folks for dinner

Truly it must have been a Lucullan banquet.

Sorry... JOMT syndrome took hold of me there!

I'm just going to give a quick summary as can't really be bothered to post a full turn log (besides it'd take you an hour to read it!)

Mongols are no-more :) Carthage are getting cocky and have nearly everyone else in an emabergo against us. Joan is polite (can't remember why!) and I did a few minor trades.

I maxed research on nationalism for 4 turns then ran out of cash. Nobody will accept gpt payments so we're screwed for now. Should get it in 6 turns anyway at 40%

Babs have also been playing silly buggers... one of their privateers sunk a galleon and another is attempting to blockade a port city.

No cities were lost :D About 20 more were founded (see if you can spot which ones :p) and Matsuyama flipped to us on my second to last turn :goodjob:

Score 4223
Culture 62793 @~750cpt

Here's the <<<SAVE>>> (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1490_01.SAV)
No screenies because I'm stupid and forgot to dump them into paintshop!

Twenty cities plus a flipper. Well done.

Roster check:

Tubby Rower - up
Pied Piper = on deck
eldar
Bede
Minute Man
Mab - JOMT (just one more toddy?)

Ok I got it, but I might not be able to play until tomorrow or Tuesday. There is a slim chance that I might get to it tonight but it's doubtful. I hope my turns go better than last time....

Just watch out for the Babs sneak attacking and you'll be fine. We have a LOT more military now and I wore out the "R" key on my keyboard building rails so troop movement is almost instantaneous.
I forgot to mention there are 12 or so settlers sitting in one of the new mongolian cities (I think it was Diagon Alley?) waiting to build a home. Lots of space for them if you keep going west.

I actually really enjoyed my last turns, even with the huge interturn delays. I even turned off all animation and it still ran slow!

Good luck TR (not that you'll need it!)

Hmm, I never got very long inter-turns. What spec PCs do you have?
(fwiw - mine is XP Pro, 2.4Ghz P4, 1Gb of 266 RAM - mind when I specced it up, it was with long inter-turns in Civ in mind)

XP Pro P4 1.6GHz with 512Mb RAM. It's a bit old but waaay better than my last PC.

The main slowdown was when I built a new city, we might be approaching the max cities limit :( :eek:

Mine is a Dell 4600 with I think a half gig of ram and 2.8GHz P4. It's about 1 year old.

Has anyone looked at the graphs lately. It's not looking good for the home team. :( We are behind in score and culture. No other team has made it past 1300 AD and we are way behind in everything it seems like. Sorry coach Bede, it looks like no championship celebration at the local pizza joint for your Bad News Bears team.

I noticed that but maybe the others will get dogpiled.

We were off to a good start but built too much early culture at the expense of the warmaking capacity and lost too many shields in the failed Wonders. Had we gotten just one.....

Still a good fight ahead of us though, to nail down the 100K and keep Babylon in the dark.

Well I was was one turn into my turns when I got a call from a friend that her water heater was overflowing. After not being able to diagnose the problem over the phone I ventured over to her newly created marsh and stopped the source and spent the next 2-3 hours sucking up water. Now I know why it takes workers so long to clean marsh up in [C3C].

Long story short. I didn't get to play the turnset out and I'll get to it tonight. I might take the afternoon off and get them knock out quicker but we'll have to see how things go this morning.

Here's what I have after one turn...

t0 Moved cannons & Cavs into place. to take a couple of cities next turn
deployed settlers
bumped science to be @ -1gpt and drop a turn on NAT
rushed a few temples

t1took two Carthage cities
plopped a few settlers down
railroaded a bunch
killed a lone Phonecian cav that was dropped off near our core.

That's all I got so far. At the beginning of my turns, we are @ ~62793 with 733cpt that means we've got at least 50 more turns @ the current rate and we also have to do something about Babylon (50653 culture)

Summary
Starting cult. 62793 +733cpt (babs 50653 +523)
Ending culture 68249 +796cpt (babs 53803 +455) <- why did it go down?

Starting cities 210
Ending cities 228 <- eight or nine settlers need to be placed by next playa

Carthage is now a OCC on an island with a Bab city (Carthage & Babylon are at war too)
We can get Music Theory out of Hannibal

turn log
T0 1490 AD - took out Num. Merc at Catharge choke point.
positioned cannons to be useful next turn.
Settlers deployed
rush a few temples

T1 1495 AD- Carthage & Vikings signed embargo against us
plopped a few settlers down
took 2 carthage cities
dispatched a lone cav that carthage landed near our core
rushed a bunch of temples, cath, & libraries
switched a few hopeless cav builds to a cath

Had to pause here because a friend's water heater busted. Be back soon.....

Ok back now

t2 1500 AD - took another Carthage city
rushed stuff
settled cities
railroading

t3 1505 AD - French Frigates took out the privateers near Entremont
rushed stuff
settled cities
railroading

t4 1510 AD - pillaged around Carthage capital to elimate per turn trades and reduce pop
rushed stuff
settled cities
railroading

t5 1515 AD - Vikings sign on with America against Bab's
rushed stuff
railroading

t6 1520 - Bab's & the ghost (England) signed peace
Made Carthage a OCC
rushed stuff
railroading

t7 1525 AD - We got Nationalism
English are building Univ. Suffering
Railroading
Re-irrigating the FP in old carthage
all cavs can now move to any city with less than 1 movement point

I have research @40% (-25gpt) on Commy. It could go as high as 50% but only for a turn (-248gpt). We only have 256 gold. I have the F1 screen organized by what it is producing so it is easier to scroll through all of the culture building to see which ones are ripe for rushing.

I just noticed a stack of settlers in Kockturn Alley. I didn't deploy them and I figured the next person could.

I'll try to get a couple of screenies up too. Oh and the save too. I've been having trouble submitting stuff from home so we might have to wait til tomorrow.

Summary
Starting cult. 62793 +733cpt (babs 50653 +523)
Ending culture 68249 +796cpt (babs 53803 +455) <- why did it go down?


They must have lost a couple of cities to the English, maybe?

Nice progress. We are on the home stretch barring a dogpile.

I suspect Hammi is either:
- Losing cities - and big ones at that.
- Selling culture so he can continue his unit upkeep.
- Is he in Fascism?

@ eldar I didn't check to see what gov hammi was in, sorry

Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1525_01.SAV) from 1525

Yep, he's in Fascism - means he'll have lost some culture from cities where he's not got the majority population.

[Edit] Rough culture calculations

At the present rate, when we hit 100k, Babylon will have ~72k.
Given we'll be increasing our output, and Babylon will most like remain static-ish in cpt, we'll probably end up needing in the region of 140-150k culture to win. Will probably take us 80-odd turns to get that far?

Roster check:

Roster check:

Pied Piper - up
eldar - on deck
Bede
Minute Man
Mab
Tubby Rower

Ok I got it, will play tonight.

forgot to put up a screenshot. Here is Carthage's dire situation. Remember that they are at war with Babylon. Also note the stacks of American troops on the island...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sgotm6_bede_latest.JPG

:bump: Any news PP??

Things look rather peaceful at the moment, now I am sorry I had to call in sick on my last turn set.
Rush library in New Durocortorum since it has negative pop growth, several other rushes.
Hire scientists to get Communism in 16 turns.

T1
Find 11 cannon undefended on the Babylonian border, almost had a heart attack.
More scientists for 13 turns

T2
Sell lux to England to raise cash for research

T3
More rushing

T4
Decrease research rate as expenses increase
Hire even more scientists

T5
Some good news

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/overthrow.jpg


Need to adjust troops for flip risk.

Roster check:

eldar - up
Bede - on deck
Minute Man
Mab
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper

Save is here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1550_01.SAV)

I'm up? Goody... well I finally finished COTM11 (thank goodness) so I have time for other games now!

Got it, playing now. 240 cities... this will take some time. And how to get shot of Babylon. At least we're twice their cpt now.

So far, I'm on turn 1, and have MMd down to 4 turns to Communism. Some lucky sod will have to MM that lot back once we are Commies, which will be after my 5th turn.

I dont know if I should say you are welcome or sorry. Just do what I did, 5 turns is alot with all that micromanagement.

Phew! I played 5 turns (though the save is from 1580, I haven't actually made any moves yet - perfectly good reason for it though).

'cos in the 1570 inter-turn, we got this:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede_comunism.jpg

I can hear the collective sighs of relief around the globe!

Here's the turn log, exciting though it isn't:
0 1550 Rush a bit of culture, then give up the MM. There's quite a bit to do next turn, it seems, though.

IT: Took a while. Babylon are making decent inroads into America.

1 1555 Communism in 7 at positive gpt. I can't believe how shot our economy is with this many cities…. Okay, thank me later. Getting through a whole bunch of cities and hiring Scientists (yeah, some at the expense of growth… they'll all have to be put back when we go Commie, that'll be one hell of a task!) I'm now down to 4 turns at +1 gold.

4 1570 We are 1 turn from Communism! Don't think I won't be revolting immediately either! I don't think I can really trust MapStat's cpt figure for Babylon… they just lost another 100+ cpt in one turn! And suspiciously have the exact same cpt as France.

IT: Start the Revolution! (With all our Scientists, we can research Electricity in 11 turns, at +18gpt with the random Taxmen dotted around!)

5 1575 Revolting…

6 1580 Revolted. I've not made any moves on this turn, but we are Communist. Research Industrialization, then Espionage. Ratae Corit has a University building that should make a nice pre-build for the SPHQ. It may finish 1 turn early so MM to prevent it.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1580_01.SAV)

Neil. :cool:

Wow Bede gets to be Communist first. Or should we revolt and go back to despotism ;) Good job eldar

Rolling right along here

Roster check:

Bede - up and got it
Minute Man - on deck
Mab
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper
eldar

Good luck Comrade Bede!
Hope you don't wear out your lmb! :lol:

Spent my first two hours this AM rearranging the core. Still haven't pressed enter yet :lol:

Now I need to start thinking about geopolitics....

Spent my first two hours this AM rearranging the core. Still haven't pressed enter yet :lol:

Well, best left to the experts, I reckoned. But isn't it nice to see all that food and gold and shields suddenly appearing after all this time?

Now I need to start thinking about geopolitics....

Ahh, re-arranging Hammurabi's empire? Reckon all our Armies and combined Artillery would be enough to raze a few of his culture-monster core cities?

Ahh, re-arranging Hammurabi's empire? Reckon all our Armies and combined Artillery would be enough to raze a few of his culture-monster core cities?

Not sure about that. Foritfied infantry are death to cavalry and cannon. What I do know is that we need to keep Hammurabi at war with someone. And we need Espionage to drop a spy in Babylon 'cause I really want to know whether he got tanks yet.

Do a little citizen management and squeeze a few extra pennies into the research budget and the treasury. Recall all the free workers I can into Entrmont so I can start some serious terrain trimming in the core towns.

Moving on the the geopolitics: We at war with Carthage and so is Babylon while America is at war with Babylon allied with the Vikings. Hammi refuses our help against either (having a common enemy and an alliance is one way to do per turn deals even with a busted rep). so I renegotiate the peace treaty with Abraham and send him some coal, horses and incense for 86gpt. Maybe that will give him a better fighting stance against Babylon. I would really like to see an end to the Embargo between Ragnar and Hannibal so I could get some goodies into Ragnae's hands so he could put up a better fight against the Hammbone, but the only way to do that is finish the Carthaginians but our only galleon is half a world away but I can disband a regular warrior at Utica and whip a galleon at the cost of a couple citizens.

England And America sign a Mutual Protection Pact.

China and Carthage sign an embargo against us.

England declares war on Babylon...

Spend some coin looking into Nineveh, Hammi has oil and rubber so if he knows MotTrans he is building tanks, not good for the home team.

The culture curve expanded by just a little under 100cpt but now that Hammi has his borders cities back under control his culture curve really jumped.

Made some resource deal with the Vikings once the Cartahge embargo ended.

Did a lot of whipping, even in the core. The workers are trimming terrain around the Big 4 towns as I was trying to get an handle on the best spot for the SPHQ. Looks like Alesia or Luigdunum but we are several turn outs from having to make that decision. I wanted to shrink the core populations to get some room to move and to assign the more productive fields to the more productive towns.

New Isca came back to us and I built one new town.

War with Hammi is inevitable if we want to end this soon. But I don't think it can happen until we have artillery. I really really hate trying to knock fortified infantry off their perches with cannon and a single fortified infantryman in a town will destroy a cavalry army. The risk is that by the time we have artillery Hammi will be putting his on tracks (tanks).

We have a really broad front with him, but he is being distacted by the Americans and Vikings. So maybe I am being chicken-hearted but I don't like attacking a stonger foe across a broad front like that unless I am positive I can bring overwhleming force to bear...

When we do go to war with Hammi that will open trade opportunities.

Close attention needs to be paid to the growth and build status of every town so we can nail the whip opportunities as they come up. Using granaries for short whips is also useful for the higher cost buildings like libraires and cathedrals and (yes, eldar, I said it) colusseums.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1605_01.SAV)

Roster check:

Minute Man - up
Mab - on deck
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper
eldar
Bede

Got it.

I agree with not wanting to take on Infantry at the moment. So I doubt I'll be starting trouble with Babylon on my turns.

I played five turns, and very little of interest happened. I built some culture buildings, laid a lot of rails, and cracked the whip where I saw the opportunity. And probably missed (at least) a few things. We have way too many cities. :crazyeye:

No change in the political situation. Though it was sort of amusing to watch all the troops shuffle around Carthage's island town (without a single shot being fired, of course). Can anybody explain why I kept seeing the AI move a couple of galleons out of a town, then unload some troops from the galleons into the town, then sail back into the town? Weird.

Industrialization came in on my last turn. I set Entremont to a factory; it's not clear to me whether we have very many cities that will benefit from factories, so that's the only one building at the moment. I set research to Espionage (we want the SPHQ, right?), but we have no beakers invested yet, so next player feel free to change.

All of these culture buildings are dragging down our economy. Even at 0% science, our cash flow is slightly negative. On the other hand, we have so many scientists that we can research Espionage in 19 turns at 0% science. Next player will probably have to adjust this as well.

>>>The Save<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1630_01.SAV)

Why does Carthage & China not have culture accumulating???? I thought that the palace would always generate culture and the palace follows the capital.

I hope that we finish this game before 2000AD... That's incredible about 0 % science generating Spies in 19 turns :wow: Once we get SPHQ, we'll need a bit of money to steal techs, correct?

We need to keep Babylon at war to hamper his culture growth.

Roster:
Minute Man - just played
Mab - up
Tubby Rower - on deck
Pied Piper
eldar
Bede

Got it but will wait until tomorrow to play as planning on getting wasted tonight!

I HAVE A NEW JOB!!!!!!! :beer: :dance: :bounce: :banana:
just thought I'd share some good news for a change :crazyeye:

Great! Congrats. The game can wait, go out and celebrate.

Why does Carthage & China not have culture accumulating???? I thought that the palace would always generate culture and the palace follows the capital.



I think it's probably because they'll be in anarchy having just researched communism? I seem to remember anarchy govt=zero culture per turn???

Playing now btw

Played 10 turns... this game has actually kept my attention in the industrial age.... amazing!

Culture has passed 100k :beer: :dance: :banana: but the Babs are on 68k :mad:

Espionage is due in 2 turns at 20% +29gpt. I played with the slider a lot to try to squeeze it out sooner.

Only made brief notes:

1645 France builds Universal Suffrage
1655 Battle of Chondote (babs)
English vs Babs:- A lucky English longbowman takes out the last Bab infantryman to raze the city. Carthage then get a huge increase in territory (almost double!).

China and the Vikings sign an MPP then China declares on Babylon
France and China sign an MA against Babylon
Everone except us and carthage are at war with the babs :satan:

5 billion miles of railway have been built. No flips this turn but looks like a couple of bab cities are on their way over.

I had to gift a 2 tile island city to England to stop Carthage taking all our gold. I forgot it was undefended until a Carthage knight showed up next to it. I think it was called something Jungle?

Here's the >>>SAVE<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1680_01.SAV) and a screenie of the dogpile!

Nice work , Min and Mab, and congrats on the job, Mab. We are over the 100% hump

Roster:
Tubby Rower - gets to start a war, or not, as you choose.
Pied Piper
eldar
Bede
Minute Man
Mab

I jut did a quick calculation and at the current rate of culture increase we are still going to have to play 103 more turns before our culture will be double that of Babylons. We'll end up with 245k of culture.

I got it. I might go ahead and start the war with Hammi. depending on how much military we have.

A question to the team, what do I need in order to take aout infantry? I don't think that cavs stand a chance against healthy inf. So what kind of stack should I have to start going against this guy? WE can't just sit back for another 100 turns and wait on the culture to go our way, so we are going to have to take it to Hammi.

To take on Infantry successfully with Cavalry, we need (a) our own Infantry; (b) Artillery. IMHO, we can't wait that long - by the time we're there, Hammi may have Mech Infantry and certainly will have Tanks and Planes. Planes and Tanks means our Armies will be next to useless.

It may be dull but sitting tight for 100 turns might be the only option :(

I think 100 turns is too long to wait - Babylon is going to be building spaceship parts by then. And now, while Hammurabi is at war with the rest of the world, is probably as good a time to take him on as we're going to have. Our tech hole is just going to get deeper and deeper, since we're spending our entire economy on culture buildings.

looking at the cultcha graph on the gotm page, we are the first to pass the 100k mark. Although we are almost 500 years behind the rest of the pack.

On the wait or declare issue, Looking at the map, it looks like America and France are making inroads to babylon. I notice that Ashur (Babylon's 2nd or 3rd city) was razed by the French and Hammi and Abe is taking some of his old cities back. We might be able to wait this one out. Escpecially if the core Babylonian cities are being captured/razed by Joan.

I'm content to wait 20 turns or so and see what this outcome is. Meanwhile building up some defense and some arties.

EDIT::: what is our financial situation?? Should we be hiring taxmen and scientists? Or is that already done?

My rough calculations (wish I had Offa's nice City Capture Simulator available here at work...) indicate:

3 Vet Cavalry per Vet Infantry fortified in a Town on flat land.
4 Vet Cavalry per Vet Infantry fortified in a City on flat land.
5 Vet Cavalry per Vet Infantry fortified in a Metro on flat land.

Expect less than 1 retreat per Infantry killed.

Obviously this gets worse with Rivers, Hills, etc., and don't forget counter-attacks in between.
It also doesn't take into account Defender promotion.

It gets better facing only Regs, with bombardment (little use Cannons may be, though), and use of Elites and Armies.

Unless we get whipping away to rush some serious numbers, we're not going to make much of a dent.

(c) 2005 Bored-at-Work Inc....

So basically wait on the war. OK

Don't underestimate the power of pillaging. We have 7 armies! Send them to Babylon and cut off their resources. We have a few cannons, they're not totally useless for bombardment, make them earn their wages for once.
The Babs are already fighting a 6 front war, lets join in whilst we still can.
I was too chicken to start a war in my turns but i now see that war vs Babs is our only option.
Down with hammi! :ar15:

I was too chicken to start a war in my turns but i now see that war vs Babs is our only option.I like the way that you passed the buck there. :rolleyes: Those armies are a good deterent too. I just don't think that we have the defensive force right now to hold them off. I'd be worried Hammi would run right over us.

What is the likelihood of Hammi turning forces our way when he's having trouble with Abe & Joan? A lot of his resources are in the distant north anyway. No way we'd get there without taking hits.

Any other votes?

OK. I'm gonna declare on Hammi on turn 1 if I don't hear back from someone otherwise. I'm not wanting to do it, but I don't see the point of playing this game until the end of SGOTM7. We've probably got the wooden spoon wrapped up by now. Barring no team losing.

Easy TR. I think your notion of holding fast a couple of turns and checking out the opposition is a sound one. Meantime move the cannons into a stack somewhere clsoe to a soft Babylonian underbelly.

We can't afford research right now but we can afford a bigger military. Before calling charge, though, spend the coin to invesitgate a few towns on the target list and make sure that there are enough cannon to hurt the defenders in the attacking stack. Get an infantryman down to 1hp and they are easy meat for a cavalry grinder. The trick is going to be holding the captured towns. Prefereably we want to prioritize towns with culture...then just raze 'em.

Ok. I was worried that I was the only one not wanting to go after the Military machine of this age. I didn't want to go against the team. Should sometime declare during my turns or just wait and let the next poor sap (I mean teammate) take on Hammi.


I'm gonna go dance with Idiots and then come back here for an answer. Then I'll play in about 1 1/2 hours from now.

Sorry I'll have to get to this tomorrow. nighty night

I like the way that you passed the buck there. :rolleyes: Those armies are a good deterent too. I just don't think that we have the defensive force right now to hold them off. I'd be worried Hammi would run right over us.

What is the likelihood of Hammi turning forces our way when he's having trouble with Abe & Joan? A lot of his resources are in the distant north anyway. No way we'd get there without taking hits.

Any other votes?

I didn't mean war straight away! I just meant we're not up the proverbial creek yet. Bede's advice about investigating cities is sound, not sure if the cash flow'll allow it for a couple of turns or so. Am I right in thinking the bigger/more improvements a city has the more it costs to investigate? If that's true then we can get a rough idea of target cities just by checking how much it costs to investigate them IYSWIM?
One obvious contender is babylon's capital though! :lol:

As for the wooden spoon... there's always another team with a sudden defeat! 100k is a hard victory to pull off, there's always the danger of an unfriendly UN vote or a sneaky spaceship getting there first. It's a game of sit and wait for most teams I should think. Even the ones who are light years ahead on the score graph have to stop before they reach domination.
Just my 2 cents :blush:

beginning culture 103459 (1379cpt)
Babylon 69490 (517cpt)
Babylon has 53 cities

Ending culture 112266 (1497 cpt)
Hammi 72412 (375cpt) (averaged 487 over 6 turns)
Hammi has 51 cities

French Ninevah has held. Hopefully they can jump off from there and beat that bearded b. down.

If Mapstats cpt is correct we are generating culture at 4x the rate of Hammi.

I only investigated one city and then I started saving up for a spy or two. We have ~300 in the bank and +300gpt. I'll try to get the screenie of Oil Springs up.
Note: Do not attack Carthage or China. It could lead to a dogpile on us. Check Mapstat's flipping and adjust troops accordingly.

pre-turns - add some cops but maintain 3 turns to spies
get some happy people in a couple of cities
rush a library
investigate Oil springs for 54

IT : Americans ask for an embargo against the Babylonians. I agree if anything else to improve attitude
Abe also asks for peace extension, sure.
trade embargo against us between China& carthage ends

t1: Shanghai riots I can't believe I missed it. I went through every city.
had to reduce sci to 10%. spies due in 3 still

IT: See about 12 American guerillas dropped off at one of the Hammi cities
China requests a MPP & ROP. nope
Arausio leavs Hammi and returns to the motherland

t2:Hammi lost another city this turn to the French (Nineveh)
drop sci to 0 & spies due in 2

IT: Abe's guerillas won one battle, and lost 2 then pillaged a RR. I have some settlers lined up just in case those cities are razed
China & Carthage signed another embargo

t3: zzzz

IT: Vikings want to extend peace, sure.

t4: Spies are in. Set research to harnessing the smallest component of the atom
I think that I screwed something up. There is no pre-builds for either the Intel or SPHQ. So I fudged something (Intel in Entremont due in 9 & SPHQ in Nemasus due in 2)These are as quick as these can be built.

IT: China and Carthage sign MPP
Vikings & Carthage sign embargo against us
Carthage & France sign MA against Hammi

t5: missed this turn somehow. I guess nothing happened

t6: SPHQ comes in and our gpt goes from ~50 to 329gpt

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sgotm6_bede_oilspirings.jpg

I'll get the save up tomorrow from work. I can't upload it here at home....stupid dial up. :gripe:

Wow, 50 to 330gpt with the SPHQ? I've never really played with Communism in C3C, I never knew just how powerful it was!

Wow, 50 to 330gpt with the SPHQ? I've never really played with Communism in C3C, I never knew just how powerful it was!I didn't either. I was pretty surprised.

I was able to upload the file from work this morning So here it is <><><> (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1710_01.SAV)

EDIT:: Now since Hammi's cpt has dropped it's reduced the turns down to 44 before doubling his culture. If his culture stops right now we still have 23 turns to go. I 'm not sure we want to attack Hammi right now. Let's let him get weaker (he will becuase the whole world is out to get him). France is holding Ninevah pretty well and the next city in line is Babylon itself. Hammi has 2 sources of oil so without knowing refining we might be stuck waiting until we know where his resources are.

Roster check:
Pied Piper - up
eldar - on deck
Bede
Minute Man
Mab
Tubby Rower

:bump: :whipped:

Roster check:


eldar - up
Bede - on deck
Minute Man
Mab
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper - skipped

I have it, I'm not likely to find time to play it today. Tomorrow though.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1750_01.SAV)

Played to 1750 to get the turns back in sync.

Yawn... 2 more flips back to us, one new tech, Intel Agency, I planted a spy with Carthage (so as not to risk starting wars, but I wanted to play with the new toy!), Babs culture-per-turn is dropping, ours is over 1700 now, but there's still a loooooong way to go (30+ turns at current rate).

Turn log:
0 1710 Research to Electricity @ 30%, 8 turns, -21gpt. Whipped up a lot of culture (I went through every city) - now at -36gpt with all the lost citizens but we can still research Electricity in 8 turns.

IT: France capture Eridu. We are officially the most powerful nation in the world?!

2 1720 IT: Niagara Falls flips to us :)

3 1725 IT: England capture Nippur.

5 1735 Sci has to come down but Electricity still in 3 :)

IT: Intelligence Agency completes.

6 1740 IT: Toyama flips to us :)

7 1745 I plant a spy with Carthage, because there's no risk of starting a war. He has a very tiny army! Go on another mass Kulcha rush. Convert quite a few builds to Courts.

IT: Electricity->Replaceable Parts. Suggest we go Medicine->Sanitation after because Sanitation isn't out there yet - it might be worth it.

8 1750 There's a single Settler to go somewhere, I can't quite figure out where. Culture (using Excel because MapStat still doesn't get it right): Us 125363, +1747. Babs: 76180, +445 (down from +482 at the start of the set - he's whipping stuff in cities he doesn't have a majority of population in, plus he's lost a couple of core cities). Current rate, we have 32 turns to go. We'll have over 180K by that time.

Picture of Carthage's army:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede_carthage_army.jpg

Roster check:

eldar - just played
Bede - UP!
Minute Man
Mab
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper

Neil. :cool:

Thanks, eldar.

Roster check:

Bede - up and got it
Minute Man
Mab
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper
eldar

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1760_01.SAV)

Rushed a few more libraries, cathedrals and colusseums. Culture per turn now greater than 2000. Babylon at 395, down 50 in five turns.

Made peace with Carthage and sailed the galleon with the army up into Babylon's waters just to see what was going on. Watched half a dozen Viking guerrillas approach a Bab city, then retreat without firing a shot.

Built a new town in a northern salient (Babylon Hills).

Planted a spy in Babylon:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM6Bede_1760.jpg

Not a tank in sight.....

Interesting he only has 9 cavalrymen left, but a ton of infantry.

If we keep on keeping on we should finish before this gets back to me. There are a bunch of granaries in the queue right now. I've been using them as markers for cathedrals, so check the granaries in F1 and when the time to copmlete gets to <20, rush the granary then switch and rush the cathedral.

Minute Man - up
Mab - on deck
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper
eldar
Bede

We could probably launch an offensive against southern Babylon now. He has no fast forces worth mentioning :lol: Just :hammer: away one city at a time.

Got it.

Is it really worth trying to take on Babylon anymore? Capturing some of his southern cities might speed up the win by a couple of turns, but by the time we can do any serious damage, the game will be over anyway. I'm not sure it's worth the effort.

Whacking Hammi would have amusement or revenge value only. His border towns are not contirbuting culture anyway so taking them won't help his decline.

Whilst it's clear we'll be getting the wooden spoon for this game, do we get a special prize for having to get nearly 200K culture to win instead of 100K?

Whilst it's clear we'll be getting the wooden spoon for this game, do we get a special prize for having to get nearly 200K culture to win instead of 100K?
Yes, we get 2 wooden spoons.

Like our benevolent brother Bede said before there might be a team out there that will lose in the late game due to space launch, UN vote, or even reaching domination inadvertantly. So wooden spoons might not be in our future. :crossfingers:

Wow I'm away for one weekend and there's 2 turnsets played! Nice work guys.
If Mapstat isn't calculating culture correctly (wouldn't know, don't use it myself) then there's a chance that it might also miscalculate a few other things leading the other teams down the dark path... :mischief: Mwah ha ha !
The end is in sight and not a moment too soon as I was gonna let you know my next turns will be my last as I'm getting married on May 14th and have a million and one wedding related things to do. The wars sure do help with venting mother-in-law related stress though!
I think we should petition for a special reward for highest culture though. Don't want to see all that effort go to waste :crazyeye:

May I propose a tilted halo for the graphic symbol for the moral victory? It need not be a gold ring, perhaps a circle of stars? Any gifted graphic artist want to take a stab at this?
Maybe we could get the first of these awards for the most culture out of everyone!!

Is it really worth trying to take on Babylon anymore? Capturing some of his southern cities might speed up the win by a couple of turns, but by the time we can do any serious damage, the game will be over anyway. I'm not sure it's worth the effortI did a quick calculation and we only have 19 more turns until we double Hammi's culture. France & England are capturing a lot of Hammi's core cities. I expect Babylon to fall during the next 10 turns. If this happens, a few of those turns will come off. So NO war with Hammi. Let's wait it out. We could almost take off Always wait at end of turn and hit shift-enter and get through this thing.


BTW, Is anyone working on the final spoiler thread submission?? I can if no one else wants to.

@TR, you volunteered so it is yours. Have fun writing!! :D

It might take a day or three but I hope to have it done by the time we end the game. I'll have to pour over the past 42 pages. and extrapolate where necessary.

I really appreciate you having fun with us Bede. You probably could have been on a top notch team but decided to help us along and I really appreciate it. Thanks.

BTW. I think that barbslinger will give us a run for the wooden spoon.

Not much to report. Sent our workers on various random errands. Convinced many of our citizens to devote their lives to the glorious cause of Celtic culture.

In foreign news, America and England declared war on France. Lincoln also pulled out of the dogpile vs. Babylon. Hammurabi didn't lose much (if any) territory over the course of my turns.

I noticed that the French have some airports, and somebody (I forget who) started Hoover Dam, so the overall tech level is nearly to the Modern Age. But I don't think we'll have any trouble winning this before the UN comes into play.

And The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1770_01.SAV).

BTW. I think that barbslinger will give us a run for the wooden spoon.
I doubt it. Their Jason score is low at the moment, but if you look at the graph, their scoring curve is well ahead of ours. I think we've got the wooden spoon pretty well locked up. We're leaving everybody else in the dust on the culture graph, though. :)

Roster check:


Mab - up, and all the best to you [party]
Tubby Rower - on deck
Pied Piper
eldar
Bede
Minute Man

It might take a day or three but I hope to have it done by the time we end the game. I'll have to pour over the past 42 pages. and extrapolate where necessary.

Thanks, TR.


I really appreciate you having fun with us Bede. You probably could have been on a top notch team but decided to help us along and I really appreciate it. Thanks.

The pleasure is all mine. I enjoyed this game as much as I did the "Green Laurel" SGOTM2, or the "Wooden Spoon" SGOTM1. You are all good company.

I said the outcome was never in doubt and that the game would be won, and it will be.

8 more turns by my calcs. Since mine is the next turnset, I'll give the official last turn up to Mab as a wedding present if she wants it.

8 more turns by my calcs. Since mine is the next turnset, I'll give the official last turn up to Mab as a wedding present if she wants it.
Awww thanks tubby!
I don't mind playing 5 turns though if anyone else wants to take the final step. Must admit I've never won by 100k (ahem 200k :mischief: ) before but since it's a modded game it doesn't enter your hof, right?
I wonder if the other civs know how close we are to winning? They seem to know everything else about the human player. I'm surprised nobody's dow'ed us and tried to curb our culture :confused:
I might play this afternoon.

Spoiler up to Gunpowder (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2634011&postcount=8)

When we last left our underdog heros, hints of a Babylonian invasion in old Japan were rampant. As most rumors, this was true. Hammi sneak attacked us and due to our trashed rep, we weren't able to sign any alliances against the Bearded Backstabber. We managed to stem this Red Tide by only losing 3 cities. After bickering over a few cities and WWI style trench warfare peace was signed with Babylon after the entire world (except Iroquois) were at war with us. Hammi entering IA was a great incentive too.

Meanwhile, the Mongols got a little break from the Celtic conversion. But then Carthage brought a stack of Numidian Mercenaries.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede_1150ad.jpg

Brother Bede reduced this down to
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/TeamBede_1250_01.jpg

We had signed a MA with the Mongols to help with the Carthaginian threat and gave them some fur for Ugly's hat.
Carthage was pushed back, and our gallic swordsmen army pillaged the heck out of their land.

In 1300 AD, Hammi came with a stack of cavs and blood in his eye. Within the span of 2 turns we had lost 7 cities to Hammi. To stop the bleeding some of the towns most in threat of being captured was donated to Joan. An MA with Joan was signed with us giving her WM, 106gpt & 924G!! When Hammi took the new french cities, It triggered a French MPP with Abe to join the dogpile vs. Hammi. A MPP between Abe & the Viking horde allowed the blonde devils to join as well. The Mongols join Hammi and sign against us. So now we have 3 fronts (Babylon, Mongol, and Carthage). The Plan is to push Carthage, hold Babylon, and swat the Mongols that pop their head up.

Carthage was pushed to an island OCC, then the Ugly was relieved of his land and joined the big ugly tree in the sky.
Joan and Abe are tying up Hammi in the north. Peace was signed with Hammi in 1365 after infantry started showing up.

The rest of the game was a waiting game. Many Celtic citizens gave up their lives for the greater Celtic culture. Slowly, one at a time, the Babylonian cities in old Japan flipped back to us. France made inroads into the Babylonian core.

In 1580AD we became a Communist government. Culture passed 100k (+1379) on mab's turns at 1670AD but Hammi had 68k (+517). So we had the advantage but just had to wait. Hammi's culture was declining indicating that the French & Americans were getting to him. We were debating at this point to try to help take out Hammi but we didn't have the techs, or numbers to even make a dent. So we waited...and waited....and waited. in 1760 we had passed the +2k culture per turn threshold. In xxxx we finally doubled Babylon's culture with a total of xxxxxx culture points accumulating +xxxx per turn.

<<<Place holder for win screen>>>

<<<Place holder for score graph>>>

<<<Place holder for culture graph>>>

@ Mab, if you play the game out, get screen shots of everything at the end. Some of them could be useful in the above write up. Or you could post a save of the turn before the win as well as the winning save.

FYI::::
I realized last night that I'm spending way too much time playing civ and not enough time with my family. I'm becoming obsessed with Civ every waking moment I either want to play it or talkto someone about it. I'm going to tell my wife to hide the CD (but not break it which is what she'd rather do). I'm sorry to do this to you but I have to. I'll be lurking around because I really don't think that I can quit cold turkey.

Thanks for all of the help that you guys have given me.

PS. I might need someone to get screenshots of the graphs from the final save for the spoiler.

Sorry guys didn't get chance to play just yet. I will play tomorrow... promise!
If I haven't posted the final save in 24 hrs from now feel free to autoskip... (that's how sure I am that I will play!) :crazyeye:

just finishing up... I'm at 1784 AD and no sign of a victory yet.. we still have only 1.93x the culture of the babs. I have railroaded every possible tile and now have 70 odd workers sat waiting to clear up pollution. We just got our first nasty blot on the landscape near Alesia. :(
I'm hoping to get this finished before 8pm GMT

EDIT:
Finished the game... here's the >>>SAVE<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_AD1790_01.SAV) and a quick summary with pics

1774 Calcutta flips to us
Lots of MA's signed between AI civs. Diplomacy looks messy!
1782 Pollution appears near Alesia
1784 Loads of WLTKD for some unexplained reason
1788 Jungle Boogie flips back to us from the English :D
Swap a load of city builds and the victory screen pops up unexpectedly :goodjob: I was expecting it in another couple of turns :eek:

I can't be bothered uploading all the pics to the file server so I'll just post them here:

Congratulations everyone. The Babylonians were always going to be trouble. :evil: :D

Phew! And I thought we were never gonna make it...! Must clear some space for that spoon I guess :D

Thanks for the game folks, especially Brother Bede for putting up with us SGOTM noobs.

It's been fun and entertaining to play with you all.

Roster check:

Mab - best wishes for your future happiness
eldar - eldar01 was my inspiration throughout.
Minute Man - thanks for coming along. Hope to see you in the next round
Pied Piper - Hope all is well.
Tubby Rower - :salute: and special recognition as most improved player in the series

mad-bax - :thanx: again for your sponsorship, administration and scenario design. First SGOTM5 and now this, how is it you can make seemingly simple and straightforward games so richly interesting?

I'll save the post-mortem for the spoiler thread.

:hatsoff: to all and see you on the Rialto.

By Tubby Rower with emendations by Bede:

The First Reel (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2634011&postcount=8)

When we last left our underdog heros, hints of a Babylonian invasion in old Japan were rampant. Unilke most rumors, this was true. Hammi sneak attacked us and due to a ruined alliance earlier in the many and ongoing wars, we weren't able to sign any alliances against the Bearded Backstabber. We managed to stem this Red Tide by only losing 3 cities. After bickering over a few cities and WWI style trench warfare peace was signed with Babylon after the entire world (except Iroquois) were at war with us. Hammi entering IA was a great incentive too.

Meanwhile, the Mongols got a little break from the Celtic conversion. But then Carthage brought a stack of Numidian Mercenaries.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede_1150ad.jpg

Brother Bede reduced this down to
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/TeamBede_1250_01.jpg

We signed an alliance with the Mongols to help with the Carthaginian threat in return for some fur for Ugly's hat. Carthage was pushed back, and our gallic swordsmen army pillaged Hannibal's lands back to the Stone Age.

In 1300 AD, Hammi came again, this time with a stack of cavalry and blood in his eye. In the first onslaught we had lost 7 cities to Hammi. To stop the bleeding some of the towns most in threat of being captured were donated to Joan. An alliance with Joan was signed with us costing a bundle and a half: our WM, 106gpt & 924G!! As Hammi captured the new French cities, It triggered a French MPP with Abe to join the war against Hammi. A MPP between Abe & the Viking horde brought the blonde devils to the battlefield as well. The Mongols, however, joined Hammi against us. So now we have 3 fronts (Babylon, Mongol, and Carthage). The Plan became push on Carthage, hold against Babylon, and swat like blackflies any Mongols that appear.

Carthage was pushed to an island OCC, then the Ugly Mongol was relieved of his land and his fur hat (furs by Brennus) and joined the big ugly tree in the sky.

Joan and Abe and Ragnar kept Hammi hog-tied in the north and the northern front held. Peace was signed with Hammi in 1365 after infantry started showing up. The others remained at war with Babylon until the end.

The rest of the game was a waiting game. Many Celtic citizens gave up their lives for the greater Celtic culture. As hoped, but slowly, one at a time, the Babylonian cities in old Japan returned to us. France and America made inroads into the Babylonian core.

In 1580AD we became a Communist government. Culture passed 100k (+1379) on mab's turns at 1670AD but Hammi had 68k (+517). So we had the advantage but just had to wait. Hammi's culture was declining indicating that the French & Americans were getting to him. We lacked the force at this point to try to help take out Hammi and any seizures we made would not reduce his cultural growth nor enhance ours meaningfully.

So we waited...and waited....and waited. in 1760 we had passed the +2k culture per turn threshold. In 1788 we finally doubled Babylon's culture with a total of 167,335 culture points accumulating 2181 per turn.

And in 1790:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/vicscreen.jpg


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/victorystatus.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/culture.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/compliments.jpg

Looks good :) Ahh, even Hammi loves us at the end ;)

spoiler posted in spoiler thread with pictures & everything.

Oh sorry Bede, I didn't realize that you were going to post the spoiler. I've already posted it. If you think that anything needs to change send me a PM or I can just remove my post and let you post it. Thanks for putting up with us.

@ everyone else, Thanks for the fun game. I know that we didn't win but seeing that this was the first 100k (well 167k) culture win for most of us, I'd call us winners of the wooden spoon.

@ mad-bax, thanks for this adventure. Hammi was a challenge at least in our game so you did your job :goodjob:

@TR, no big deal. I posted here for you to look at and approve changes. So it's all yours.

:goodjob: We've all been watching your culture graph in amazement. Nothing like securing 167K to win a 100K game. You should be proud, not bad for a group of newbies (and Bede :) )

Well, you see we all thought m-b had set the culture limit to 200K:D

Phew...I'm exhausted just watching this. :thumbsup: Congrats fellas!

Well done, Team Bede :goodjob:

I've enjoyed keeping up with your thread after our game was over. I prefer playing but lurking in threads like this one is a pretty good substitute. Well done-I'm sure you deserve a special award for gaining so much extra culture :goodjob:

I've enjoyed keeping up with your thread I've heard a lot of players say this. While some called it painful to watch. Why was it enjoyable?? Just because some newbies+1 were trying to take on the big dogs?

I've heard a lot of players say this. While some called it painful to watch. Why was it enjoyable?? Just because some newbies+1 were trying to take on the big dogs?If my team are one of the 'big dogs', I'm afraid that I'm the poodle of the pack!

To answer your question though, I enjoy SGOTM as a competition but (as with GOTM) my main reason for playing is to see how other teams tackle the problems they encounter from the same starting position. I admire teams that have great strategic awareness but I enjoy threads with lots of discussion between team members that are having fun in their game and you seem to have great team spirit. IMO yours was a great thread to lurk-please don't take it the wrong way as it was meant as an honest complement. :)

(BTW I don't know whether you remember our conversations during the Austrian bonus game but if you'll permit me to hijack this thread for a moment I would like to congratulate you on your recent XOTM results TR-fantastic progress!)

(BTW I don't know whether you remember our conversations during the Austrian bonus game but if you'll permit me to hijack this thread for a moment I would like to congratulate you on your recent XOTM results TR-fantastic progress!)The Austrian games seems like ages ago. These Succession games (SGOTM & normal SG's) have taught me a lot about the game mechanics and how to approach and tackle some problems that arise in games. I've recently conceded my Civ cd to my wife and therefore won't be able to play for a while. :(

I didn't mean to question your comment but was curious why people found our thread in particular enjoyable. thanks for the response.

Personally I don't want to play another 100K game for a while :D (in the past week I've also done one for the HoF, mercifully at Chieftan level).

I suspect AWD will be a sufficient change of dynamic but bring its own intensity with it!

@Mab - any chace of the 1788 save? I'd like to get the victory screen up :)

I'll try to dig out the autosave and resave it for you eldar.
great game, great team, great fun :D

I'm off to read the other teams' threads now!

I love my wooden spoon, gonna cook up a nice curry now :crazyeye:

cool, :thanx:

here's the 1788 save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar_1788_AD.SAV) for you guys... :crazyeye:

Hey guys, It looks like Team Row&Live are having the same trouble with an AIs run away culture that we had. I realize that the cpt will change but currently they have another ~65 turns to go and only a little over a week to get it done before the game deadline.

The only problem is that they are playing PTW so they aren't in the running for our wooden spoon. Although barbslinger is and still has ~30 more turns to play. I think that they are down to just 2 players though.

I'm only awarding one wooden spoon. It will go to the lowest Jason score for all games.

Just wanted to let everyone know that it has been a real pleasure to play SGOTM6 with all of you.

It has however been my practice to play the next game with a roster of different players, preferably players new to the series. So for SGOTM7 I invited some of my Demi-god and AW SG companions who have not played SGOTM before to be a part of Team Bede.

In any case, once Bede06 gets off the ground you will all get invites. It wil probably be a reprise of Bede05, just havenlt decided yet.

In any case, once Bede06 gets off the ground you will all get invites. It wil probably be a reprise of Bede05, just havenlt decided yet.*cough*I'll probably kick it [Bede06] off sometime tomorrowNot that I'm complaining, of course. :D

And when I was looking at the culture graph I was just trying to imagine what happened to you...

Post mortem?

1) Lost too many settlers and swordsmen to failed wonder builds.

2) Early warfare was not prosecuted to its fullest (see above)

3) Defense got stretched real thin after the Japanese war so we became an easy target.

4) Lost our reputation at a critical point when we needed lots of friends, rather htan enemies, so future alliances cost way too much money.

5) The Babylonians turned into a cultural monster and we couldn't take 'em down a peg or three because of their technology lead.

Bede06 is hanging fire because I have had a hard time making up my moind on how to set it up. It may be that Demi-god is just too tough because of AI aggressiveness, and my land settings for the last attempt were too niggardly. Been playing some tests to and figure it out. So patience.....

I think our biggest mistake was trying to attack Japan and China simultaneously. In fact bothering to attack Japan at all, rather than just staying at war with them, keeping some allies involved all the time, and keeping minimal forces to deal with landings, whilst concentrating on heading west.

BTW, When did we trash our rep?? I don't remember the action that caused it just that at one point in time, we couldn't make per turn deals.

We had an alliance with Hammi vs. someone (India? Japan?), and signed peace terms with said common opponent a bit quickly.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/players/awards/woodenspoon6.gif

We did it!!!!

:band: :beer: :dance: [party]

Thank you all for having such a good time.

:hatsoff: and a big :thanx: to mad-bax for putting it all together.