SGOTM6 - Celts. Team Smackster.

Welcome to your team thread for SGOTM06. I hope you enjoy the game.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM6-START.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Celts
World size - 100 wide by 130 high.
Difficulty Emperor (approximately)
Landform Contiguous Pangea

Here are a number of links you might find useful.

The Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1733966&postcount=61)
GOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71788)
Upload a Save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php)
Download a save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)
SGOTM06 Maintenance Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110909)

This Months' sponsored variant is Cultural Celtic Communists the rules for which are as follows.

1. The only allowed governments are despotism and communism.
2. You must win by 100K victory condition.

Your save has been uploaded to the server and will become available to you on the 7th February.

Hi guys! Worker NW to mountain to decide if we are to go for game or wheat or Cow within Capital's city limits. Or a combination of them, or something revealed by the lifting fog. The cow might be difficult to work. My two favourite starting tiles are: 1SW on Hills with game and 2NE on plains? with both cow and wheat. Maybe both, but where to start?

Re. roster: Tomasjj? And who kicks us off?

Reporting for the duties

I am here and i like 1SW as city location. Gives us maximum BGs.

TomasJJ is playing for Barbslinger team this time.

I was starting the previous game so you guys decide who starts this one...

Since this is 100K game, would it be beneficial to have cheap temples as 1st cities builds... Remember that early temples really great since they double culture every 1000years.
What would be overal team strategy... 100K is my least favorite kind of game and i never played one until now.
We will have to be really smart balancing military expansion and cultural builds in shortest time frame....

We also have strong opponents now and it looks like it is not going to be team Offa this time but rather Akots and Co.
Another team with strong players - Barbslinger.

Checking in....

I'll play the first moves, assuming you guys are ok with this.

I'm not 100% sure where Grahamiam lives? I'll wait until I know before sorting the roster positions so that we can go Europe->USA as per our other games.

The start of this game should be like any other, just establish our settler factory and get pumping, there is little value to an early temple in our first city, much better to concentrate on settlers.

I think it is most likely that we want to settle between the wheat/game as that gives us +5fp and most likely the better squares. However, to maximise our chances, I suggest first moves a little more radical than Wotan suggests.

Worker NE, that way we can scout a good number of squares towards the cattle and make the best decision there. Then we move the settler NW towards the position that it is most likely to settle in.

This then shows us the most amount of squares, which I always believe is the best way to start.

We dont need 2 food surplus sources to have +5fpt
Celts are agricultural in C3C... We might be better to give that wheat to our second city for the fast growth and second settler/worker factory.

Gragamiam (aka. G-Man) lives in PA according to his profile. So he is your close neighbour Smackster. However he is going to be offline until monday.
He left a message in SG forums about that.

I am okay with you playing startup. But I'd wait for the rest of the team to check-in. :)

I won't comment on build orders....
I also promise to never say "I told you so" sentence since 100K is unknown chapter for me. :)

Team Offa switched to conquest...
They finally realized what's right thing to do :rolleyes:

checking in :wavey:

while you guys ponder the immediate moves, someone (smackster?) please draw up a roster. i'm gmt-5 (USA east coast).

stratigically, let's discuss how we want to lay out our civilization:
imho, we build our core as normal (say, cities dist 4-6) and maybe a second ring. after that, we go strict ICS. Core towns build military so we can continue expanding all game, building more and more cities. since we are force to be despotic for most of the game, we should probably just accept an early, despotic GA. maybe time it so we can build Libraries during that time.

next, we should decide on whether we want to build the ToA or rely on pop rushing temples. this one's a little tricky. in terms of shield per culture, the temple is the best bang for the buck for the celts (15s per 1c) and we can pop rush every 10T assuming the new town gets 2fpt (this is for the ICS towns). However, if you factor in the cost of the settler for the town, the ToA becomes very appealing as we get a free temple in every town (but no doubling). After the temple, the cost of libraries (27s per 1c) and cathedrals (27s per 1c) are even, colesseum's (30s per 1c) and universities (50s per 1c) get more expensive. Even if we don't build the ToA, it may be useful to capture it later. Therefore, we probably should think about whether or not we want to go for Education. imho, we don't need it and gain more benefit from the ToA but we must really hammer the AI's early to make it work.

I'm not all that entralled with the doubling of culture, as usually you need to get those temples down before 1000bc to get the most benefit and, frankly, i'd rather have another town for that 30s, but that's just me. i'll go with whatever the team wants. there may be an opportunity here or there.

another thing that is possible is palace hoping via GLeaders but, if we do go ICS outside the core, then this probably won't be worth it.

sorry for the ramblings, my thought aren't cohesive till the 2nd cup of coffee :)

Hi Grahamiam and welcome to the team. Your pre game analysis is very similar to my own so I guess we will have a smooth stárt in the game wo any huge differences. ;) With C3C we do not need to look for "RCP" placement but rather put the core locations in the best possible places, but I too tend to revert to PTW thinking now and again.

With ICS towns the doubling of a temple is just a question of getting another town before 1000 years have passed so I agree with you re. this. It is not that important, just icing on the cake whenever we gain extra culture from "age".

With C3C we do not need to look for "RCP" placement but rather put the core locations in the best possible places, but I too tend to revert to PTW thinking now and again.
yes, but we still want a "core" of cities in close proximity to the capitol, we just don't have to rely on exact distances. therefore, as i wrote, the prime core should be dist 4 to 6, at the best possible location as you noted. i find that all my C3C games end up with an initial core of distance 4-5, probably a hangover from PTW :lol: , but it does work out well as it drives down the distance component of the corruption calculation.

I agree with what you guys said...
Building ToA makes me a little nervous though...
a) I think we still should keep rushing temples while we are building ToA. With team Offa switched to C3C we will have furious competition again and every cultural point will count.
b). Can we rely on AIs to build ToA for us. It may take them too long to build.
"Difficulty Emperor (approximately)" makes me nervous as well. AIs may have emperor level troops support but Monarch level building capabilities. We don't know what exactly is hidden behind M-B's definition.

I think that getting TOA early is the most important part of this game. Very early we should designate a city for an early pre-build. Our tech choice should be straight for Poly, and never research Education. However this does assume a reasonably sized starting continent.

Once we have TOA then we should move into settler overdrive. As we can only pop-rush the settlers (assumption that we don't get communism for a long time) then this will be interesting. Again this does depend a little on the starting continent, and size of other continents.

However, none of this should make any difference to the starting moves. Getting our settler factory operational is the first task. I tend to agree that a tight build of cities is right, maybe no more than 4 squares around the palace. In C3C I tend to go for more spaces, but I think in this game less is more.

As before I'll just play the first move and post a picture, so that we can decide.

Right now I'm going to do what I suggested, worker NE, settler NW and then post. Any objections.

Smackster

Somebody wrote a ToA guide.

THE TEMPLE OF ARTEMIS
Cost: 500
Technology Required: Polytheism
Other Requirements: None
Rendered Obsolete By: Education
Traits: Religious
Effect: Places a temple in every city on the continent. Tourist Attraction.
Culture: 4
Analysis: I’ve already covered the Temple of Artemis under my entry for the Oracle, and what I said for that wonder applies to the ToA as well. Essentially a double-edged sword, ok the temple in every city is an extremely time saving and powerful ability, but when they all vanish with education, I question its worth. As I said with the Oracle, you’re suddenly going to have to bring in some alternative means of entertaining your citizenry, which wastes time at a point in the game when a stable empire base is what your relying on for some expansion, be it technologically, culturally, militarily etc. and even more so than the Oracle, I seriously doubt if the expense of the ToA is worth the benefits. A massive 500 shields is the most expensive wonder of the ancient era, and the ToA is far from the best. I bear no disrespect for players who make a drive for this wonder, perhaps with the Oracle too, then leap frog their way up the chain of happiness-generating wonders, getting the Sistine Chapel almost as soon as the ToA becomes obsolete, but still, I’d tend to avoid it. But there are situations where it could be helpful, that I can see, probably cultural victories or peaceful republic/democracy games could gain some worthwhile use out of it. Furthermore, responses to this article's first draft raised the point that the extra temples can be handy for faster paced border expansion, which I accept is an added bonus in expansionist strategies, and in preventing the AI getting those irritating cities within your territory. However, unless these advantages of the ToA are of serious value to you, my advice is to steer clear.

Checking in. Good to see you guys already way ahead on the spamming :P

However this does assume a reasonably sized starting continent.

I believe we are playing "Landform Contiguous Pangea"



Once we have TOA then we should move into settler overdrive. As we can only pop-rush the settlers (assumption that we don't get communism for a long time)


You have to pop rush in communism as well..
But... we can always build suprlus of military units in core cities and disband them on top of corrupted cities instead or in addition to pop rushing.
Pyramids will be extremely useful wonder if we want to do pop rushing to help us to regrow population.

EDIT: so no education in this game??? Unless we keep manually building temples in every city even when we have ToA....
Effect of Education will be lowered because we won't be able to use cash in this game and pop rushing university requires too many citizens.Or too many military units for disbanding purposes...

May be we should at least try to get all 3 MA wonders that come before education.

Re: ToA. If we go for this, we must not get education. Cancelling the effects will kill us, as we then have to rebuild all the temples and not get a doubling on them for quite some time.

Apart from that, I agree that we need a functional core, and we should be able to get 3 settler factories (depends on if it's possible to irrigate that cow, it might be all alone on a small island). Beyond the core cities, we need to place cities as tightly as possible so we can get as many temples as possible built.

With engineering, we can do tree farming as well. I think we'll need to keep maps og where we have tree farmed... Will see if I can find the guide that says where a chop will go, but IIRC it starts with the city to the NE (9 on numpad) and goes clockwise around first ring, then jumps out to second ring clockwise

With engineering, we can do tree farming as well. I think we'll need to keep maps og where we have tree farmed... Will see if I can find the guide that says where a chop will go, but IIRC it starts with the city to the NE (9 on numpad) and goes clockwise around first ring, then jumps out to second ring clockwise

From what i know you can only chop forest once...
you can not plant, chop it, plant chop...
Game has a safe guard mechanism against it, or so I read somewhere on this web site.

dman: Exactly. Which is why we need maps of where we have chopped.. You can still get quite a bit of free production from this though, especially in conquests where the chop is fast.

(edit: Cross posted, he's alive ) I'll PM Tarkeel.

Roster
smackster
Wotan
Grahamiam
Tarkeel
Dmanakho

I'm going to do the first move and post at lunchtime today

So I did it, moved the worker NE and the settler NW

So I'll settle NW, and irrigate the wheat first. Then move to cut and irrigate the game. One of the squares will be shared as we'll get +6fpt.

Start working technology towards Poly.

smackster

smackster: Don't forget we get another food in city square when on a river...

smackster: Don't forget we get another food in city square when on a river...

Yep, wouldn't that give us +7fpt... I would postpone chopping the game in such a case

smackster: Don't forget we get another food in city square when on a river...
Thanks, I did forget that, not used to the C3C changes. I'll certainly irrigate that wheat, which then will give us our +5fpt, I generally believe in creating as much food as possible so we should still cut and irrigate the game, but I'll have to think about this order a little. Getting the 4 turn factory up is paramount.

I also don't know if we have pottery, if we don't I suggest we take a risk that we can trade for it.

smackster

we'll have a 4t factory if we leave the game alone.
cc = 3f, 1s
wheat = 4f, 0s
2x mined bg's = 4f, 4s
forest game = 2f, 2s

@ size 4, we do 13fpt (+5fpt) and 7spt, MM'ing on growth to maintain the +5fpt. probably would be nice to spit out another worker to get all this mining and roading done faster. i suggest we leave the game alone till we figure out where city 2 and 3 will be located. perhaps we can share the irrigated game later with one of those cities. it's MM intensive, but that shouldn't be a problem for this group :)

We want another city to work the irrigated game. Our prime focus needs to be more temples, and for that we need more cities :)

What ever guys you come up with make sure your plan will beat the crap out of Team Offa this time around :lol: .
(@lurkers: no offence, those guys are good).

The bottom line is that there is no rush to cut that game forest. So after irrigating the wheat, I can start to mine other squares so that we can get the factory up and running sooner

Would prefer to save the cut for our second factory's granary really :)

Would prefer to save the cut for our second factory's granary really :)
that's kinda what i was getting at, but i seemed to dance around the point rather than make it plain.

@dman: this thread is only 2 pages long and you've mentioned team offa 3x! i vote you go on a diet on this subject ;) perhaps prevent yourself from mentioning them again till 10BC? :lol: the reality is that we can't do anything about what other teams are doing, only play the best we can. so let's forget everyone else for now and focus on what we should be doing in the next 60 to 80 turns :)

:lol: Deal, putting myself on a diet...

T0 4000BC

Worker NE, Settler NW

We are against the following civs

Japanese
Babylonians
French
Mongols
Carthaginians
Chinese
English
Iroquois
Indians
Vikings
Americans

T2 3900BC
Settles Entrement, starts warrior, starts on Myst at 20%

T3 3850BC
Worker starts irrigating wheat

T4 3800, T5 3750, T6 3700

T7 3650BC

Warrior is built, scouts west onto hill, irrigation complete and worker builds road

T8 3600BC
Warrior moves west again, spies goodie hut

T9 3550BC
As the hut is on a mountain I'll pop it, should be able to fend of barbs

Entremont grows to size 2, slider set to 8.1.1

T10 3500BC
Warrior goes in and what a suprise, gets barbs, and shows that there is a barb hut west, that is a really early hut. The warrior is at least on a mountain

T11 3450BC
Two barb attacks on our warrior and he loses no hits and gets promoted to vet
Instead of attacking the hut I send him south to scout. That hut may be annoying but don't want to risk losing an early warrior.
Entremont warrior->warrior, decide to scout with this second and use the third for defence because of the hut

T12 3400, T13 3350

T14 3300BC
Warriors scout north and south. To the south we see some tundra, to the north the end of the land, will go west.

T15 3250BC
Entremont warrior->granary, size 3 now

T17 3150BC
worker finishes mine, decides to move to the next mine rather than road to speed up time to settler factory.

T18 3100BC,

T19 3050BC
Entremont grows to size four. Slider 6.1.3

T20 3000BC
Barb warrior fortifies west of Entremont
Granary in 6
Myst in 32
Both scout warriors finding end of land, but clearly there are land bridges about

Alright...

Congrat's with the nice start...
Looks like barbarians are set to ultra-ferocious level

Now we need a dot map for city placements...
IIRC, that is something that Tarkeel really likes to do. :)

DMan: m-b stated barbs were raging, with "regionally intense" which means preplaced barbs.. Sort of like that island in SG3 ;)

Will have a look at a dotmap later today

Khhm... that is strange... Never seen Wotan to be so silent at the beginning of the game...
hope nothing is wrong there.

Roster

smackster (just played)
Wotan (up)
Grahamiam (on deck)
Tarkeel
Dmanakho

Khhm... that is strange... Never seen Wotan to be so silent at the beginning of the game...
hope nothing is wrong there.
I hope things will pick up soon... Sorry but I have a huge work load in RL ATM. I will be able to play tomorrow night at the latest, will try to do it at lunchtime though. Suggestions?

I guess after granary, settlers galore? First settler goes were? (Sorry haven't looked at the save yet).

Suggest next city on the plains north of the other wheat. Will be on river and coast, so we aren't wasting coast tiles, and it will get 5 fpt. Not sure if we have production enough though, but I think it should work

Yes I like that position, getting many +5fpt cities is next priority

Suggest next city on the plains north of the other wheat. Will be on river and coast, so we aren't wasting coast tiles, and it will get 5 fpt. Not sure if we have production enough though, but I think it should work
OK will move first settler towards that spot if it becomes available during my turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/smacksterfirst.JPG
Turn log

0 – 3000BC Pre-flight
Not much to do, first time I play after Smackster!!! :) I looked at Entremont and as far as I can see it will finish the Granary in 5 turns So I should have the first Settler on the road at the end of my turns.

1 – 2950BC
Northern Warrior discover Spices.

2 – 2900BC
Barb.Camp spotted in the north.

IBT: The Barb.Camp is attacked and dispersed and a Chinese Warrior enters the mountain tile.

3 – 2850BC
China is up BW, Masonry and WC and down CB and Pottery. Since they are less than keen to trade I will wait a few turns and hopefully find one or two additional tribes before trading. Entremont grows to size 5, lux to 40%.

4 – 2800BC
Spot a GH across the water in the west.

5 – 2750BC
Entremont finish the Granary and start the first Settler. It will be ready in four turns, just when Entremont will grow from size 6 to 7. Well planned Smackster!!! It is a pleasure playing after your turns.

6 – 2710BC
Chinese borders suggest they have at least 3 locations!

7 – 2670BC
Nada

8 – 2630BC
Nada

9 – 2590BC
Entremont builds Settler, Settler started. Lux to 30%.

10 – 850AD
Nada….

After action report:
We have met one tribe, China. I have not traded with them. Suggest we try to find more tribes before trading. They have started the game with several cities according to the histograph.

First Settler is two turns from Tarkeel’s suggested settlement tile.

Entremont is a fine four turn settler factory, thank you Smackster!

Firaxis: 95

OK, looks good, keep pumping those settlers, forget temples in Entrement.

For the next city, I suggest building a warrior first, then that city should probably build a worker or two, then granary, then pump the workers/settlers etc.

The next couple of cities probably need a warrior first, then temple.

Any loss of culture by not getting early temples will be outweighed as our troops swarm all over the map. Most teams will be tempted to get early temples and they will waste time by doing that.

smackster

i have not looked at the save, but i am tempted to switch the current build to a worker, then let Entremont spit out settlers non-stop. I just always feel better with a 2nd worker very early.

5 – 2750BC
Entremont finish the Granary and start the first Settler. It will be ready in four turns, just when Entremont will grow from size 6 to 7. Well planned Smackster!!! It is a pleasure playing after your turns.

I'm afraid that I did not calculate this. Maybe a little lucky, but lets call it experience, that you can build about 3 warriors in the time it take a 4 turn factory to get ready.


Entremont is a fine four turn settler factory, thank you Smackster!

Is there anyway to keep it a four turn factory and cut the game? Anyone?

We need to identify high shield city position early in this game and get ToA prebuild going right away.

i have not looked at the save, but i am tempted to switch the current build to a worker, then let Entremont spit out settlers non-stop. I just always feel better with a 2nd worker very early.
How would this effect when we get our next settler. How many turns would this offset that. I guess say if its two turns, then maybe you are right. Anymore keep it as is.

Is there anyway to keep it a four turn factory and cut the game? Anyone?

That is why we have G-Man in our team..
He is the best living human shield calculator ever ;)

EDIT: But looking at the picture i think it would only be possible if we cut forest and uncover another BG.

Roster

smackster
Wotan (just played)
Grahamiam (up)
Tarkeel (on deck)
Dmanakho

On the other hand, maybe keep the game forest for our shield city.

we should get a worker next turn if i switch, based on the log. a settler factory has to do at least 7spt on the first turn, so we will get it next turn, wasting 6 shields, but will be at pop 5, with the pump reset and ready to go.

when i open the save tonight, i'll look at the game question. probably need to work it out on paper.

as far as ToA spot, it should be our 3rd or 4th town, so I'll look around at the map when chosing.

OK, so we should probably do it, get that worker out from entrement, and then start pumping settlers again.

As always in this game, use your judgement during your turns, if anything major comes up don't hesitate to stop and post for comments. We would always prefer to take 2-3 days over turns rather than rushing it. If you can't play the following day after a decision point, don't worry somebody else can take it.

We only need 6 shields at size 5 and 7 at size 6 to have a factory. That is possible with 1 BG when using wheat for food.

A second worker will help the other city get up and running much faster. We'll want to pump another worker to help our third settler factory as well I believe.

T1 Size 5 (Shields base -1, BG -2, Wheat -0, G -1, G -1, G -1) 6 = 6 total
T2 Size 6 (Shieds 6 (as above) +2 on growth) 8 = 14 total
T3 Size 6 (Shields base -1, BG -2, Wheat -0, G -1, G -1, G -1, G -1) 7 = 21 total
T4 Size 7 (Shields 7 (as above) +2 on growth) 9 = 30 total - Settler

So we can get a 4 turn factory without the need for the game. Need to mine four grasslands, and then we can use one of the BGs elsewhere. Once we have it setup, we can chop the Game and then we will have our third 4 turn settler factory.

With these factories going, the AI is toast.

We should probably try philosophy slingshot for currency or construction
We can start pre-building ToA with anyother wonder or palace .
Later simply trade Polytheism from AIs since they always go for that especially rel. civilizations. Just a thought.

We should probably try philosophy slingshot for currency or construction
We can start pre-building ToA with anyother wonder or palace .
Later simply trade Polytheism from AIs since they always go for that especially rel. civilizations. Just a thought.
How many turns before Myst? We should certainly consider this, however its a risk. Lets hold that decision so whoever gets Myst should stop. Depends how many AI we have met.

Now I look at this again, I would have played my first turns differently. I'm not used to agricultural trait. If playing again, I would have build a settler before the granary and sent that to the second spot right away. I think the general opinion is that gives you a benefit if the second location provides the same food as the first location, which it does.

So we can get a 4 turn factory without the need for the game. Need to mine four grasslands, and then we can use one of the BGs elsewhere. Once we have it setup, we can chop the Game and then we will have our third 4 turn settler factory.

With these factories going, the AI is toast.
if we put a town 2T S, and 1T SW, we'll get the game + one of the already mined BG's. it's a bit cramped but should be a powerhouse spot with 5 BG's in range + game + some hills (i think, i can only see Woton's pic while typing this).

to mine 4 more grasslands, we'll need a few more workers. however, i'll probably just do 1 more worker and 2 more settlers from Entremont during my turns so we get ourselves a good foundation. any preferences on towns #3 and 4?

I like that position, and we should probably put a city there, but I'm looking for our best shield position, I now think it should use that irrigated game, which will allow it to use hills and forests.

From looking at my micro map on my laptop (so its hard to see) I'm thinking that 4 SW on that hill is the place to put it. Its on a river and can use the game. That gives it +5fpt, and would allow us to use a stack of one food tiles, allow it to grow and get very good shield production.

I'm thinking we have a bit of time to get this done. So we could put the next city as Grahamiam suggested but that city would only get use of the game until our shield city is ready to start shield pumping.

I tend to think that we should do that, put a city as Grahamiam suggested then put one as I suggested.

Comments?

I don't see cramped as a problem in this game. Actually, I see this game as an exercise in how tightly we can pack the cities ;) Especially if we manage to build ToA

sorry, i should have stated it clearly: the location i propose would utilize the irrigated game. imho, we either go where i suggested or where smackster suggested. we cannot settle in both places as the towns would be too cramped.

imho, smackster's location is probably better in the long run (but i can't see all the tiles from the 2 pics posted). if that's the case, i say we settle there as we can't afford throw-away towns.

maybe one of our european friends can come up with a dot map before i play tonight (i play in about 7 hrs) :) this will determine the next best locations in a more logical way and we can get a better handle on our immediate goal of establishing our core.

I don't see cramped as a problem in this game. Actually, I see this game as an exercise in how tightly we can pack the cities ;) Especially if we manage to build ToA
imho, the core should be normal, we don't want so cramped that we have low spt towns. we need military to win this and the core will be what produces it. outside the core, we will pack'em in :)

Go with your original suggestion, I was not thinking clearly I was thinking only in terms of settler factory, but I like it better for shield city. Your suggestion actually gives us 3 BG's and the game, with unlimited (well more than we can use) forest and hills.

At size 9, BG, BG, BG, Game (irrigated) is +5 fpt.
That allows us to get 5 +1 food tiles, which is 5 forest or mined hills.

Total shields 19 per turn. 500 shields for TOA, 27 turns if we find another BG it puts it at 25 turns.

That extra BG makes the difference for me.

Also there are some hidden tiles and we might get another BG.

smackster

I tend to think that we should do that, put a city as Grahamiam suggested then put one as I suggested.

Comments?
Looks like a plan. But I can only see what is in the map I posted ATM.

Looks like a plan. But I can only see what is in the map I posted ATM.
Forget that, the plan changed, you have to keep up :lol:

Forget that, the plan changed, you have to keep up :lol:
I missed the tread continuing on the next page :( But as von Moltke once said: No plan will ever survive contact with the enemy... or friends in this case. :)

Preflight check: Looks good. Switch the settler to worker as discussed. Gain an extra penny by MM off game and onto river grass.
Interesting, we’re doing a min research run on Myst. I think that’s a first for me :lol:

IBT: Entremont worker -> settler

T1: 2510BC Teleportation -> On! Warriors move W and N; Settler N, worker moves to a river grass. MM to get to 5fpt.

T2: 2470BC ditto, except Northern Warrior goes NE to skirt Chinese border; worker roads

T3: 2430BC Alesia founded -> warrior MM Entremont and futz with lux slider
I can get 110g from Mao for CB.
Worker has finished roading the river grass and moves NE to road towards our new town.

T4: 2390BC nada

IBT: Entremont settler -> settler

T5: 2350BC Red border to our SW, near the cow. Settler heads S. Worker moves to river plain (faster to irrigate and road this than mining the grass)
Futz with lux slider again.

T6: 2310BC Western warrior spots yellow border, Northern warrior sees the ocean. Settler SW, worker irrigates the plain.

T7: 2270BC Northern warrior N to see more ocean, Western warrior is now against the yellow border. Settler S, other worker moves to wheat.
MM Entremont. I can leave the lux slider alone thanks to the roaded river grasses :)

IBT: Alesia warrior -> worker

T8: 2230BC Found Lug. See another game near it’s border :) -> warrior
Meet the Mongols. They are up BW, Mas, Alpha, Wheel, WC, Myst
Trade: China: Sell them CB for WC and 61g. I can’t buy Alpha for anything, but hopefully we can in a few turns with enough gold.
Setter is going to the NW to the best spot I can see. Therefore, I move the warrior out of Alesia to help with barb guard duty.

IBT: Entremont settler -> settler; Mongols are building the Oracle

T9: 2190BC Warrior settler pair moving to the NW

T10: 2150BC China now up Myst as well. MM Alesia for growth, delaying the worker. This should be MM’d next turn to ensure we get the worker in 2T :)

Warrior settler pair should move 1T SW, as that tile is on a river (it’s showing +1g), or W.
Warrior from Lug should go meet our red neighbors to the E.
I think I’ve learned that I will never try a min run on Myst :lol:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sg6-smack-2150BC-1.jpg

I am drunk and having hard time putting two words together...
All i can say Lug looks like a perfect city for ToA with all the BGs.
Cant really read a report right now.... My vision is kind of blurry :lol:

Preflight check: Looks good. Switch the settler to worker as discussed. Gain an extra penny by MM off game and onto river grass.
Interesting, we’re doing a min research run on Myst. I think that’s a first for me :lol:
I think I’ve learned that I will never try a min run on Myst :lol:


Agreed we should have turned it up at some point, once we got more than a few citizens at home. I was kind of thinking that for a period of time, but didn't do it, and certainly didn't mention it here.

I would however, go max for Poly. If the AI gets it then that makes it cheaper for us.

Oh, good turns BTW

I think we should wait on chopping those 2 games and worker pump Lug to build ToA, and when it finishes build another city to have 4 (!) Settler factories.

Chopping the game appears to give us one more shield. However, it will take time to chop it and grow it, so I don't see it as a major priority right now. I think using both game for the TOA will allow us to get shields quicker. So lets leave them for now.

@Tarkeel: you are up now, so the decision is ultimately in your hands.

@Grahamiam: looks good! Well played.

just some thoughts on how to handle Lug:

Lug should probably do a worker next, and that worker can cut the SE game for 10s towards a temple. with that game left alone, it will take 7T to grow. with it irrigated, it'll only take 4T without a granery. We can get the pop up to 7 alot quicker, which means working the 6 BG's and 1 game (-1 or 2 for corruption, assumes all BG's are mined).
edit: remember, in C3C, chops are significantly faster, 4T for non-industrious civs, so the benefit is worthwhile
however, before we start on the ToA, this town should also start spitting out several workers to help with all the local mining (probably 4 total will do). These can then be rejoined into town after it's pop is up to 7 and growth time increases from 4T to 8T.

also, we really need a dotmap for the rest of the core towns. i'm afraid some mistakes will be make because we will focus too much on Lug. The terrain is tricky (lots of mountains west (but a goat :) ), as well as the coast to our E/NE and tundra to the S)

I am having doubts on the way we are doing research.
We should have started the research the way we usually would do it in any emperor game. Getting us polytheism 20 or even 30 turns faster won't give us ToA any sooner but will probably worsen our positions from other prospectives...
It is probably too late but going alphabet->writing->philosophy, snatching math and wheel and eventialy trading for polytheism sounds like a better option to me.

just some thoughts on how to handle Lug:

Lug should probably do a worker next, and that worker can cut the SE game for 10s towards a temple. with that game left alone, it will take 7T to grow. with it irrigated, it'll only take 4T without a granery. We can get the pop up to 7 alot quicker, which means working the 6 BG's and 1 game (-1 or 2 for corruption, assumes all BG's are mined).
edit: remember, in C3C, chops are significantly faster, 4T for non-industrious civs, so the benefit is worthwhile
however, before we start on the ToA, this town should also start spitting out several workers to help with all the local mining (probably 4 total will do). These can then be rejoined into town after it's pop is up to 7 and growth time increases from 4T to 8T.

also, we really need a dotmap for the rest of the core towns. i'm afraid some mistakes will be make because we will focus too much on Lug. The terrain is tricky (lots of mountains west (but a goat :) ), as well as the coast to our E/NE and tundra to the S)

Good points. My question is when should our ToA pre-build start. Assume 12 turns to Myst (can we get it any quicker on max research, this is what we should have done once we could, I don't think I was thinking min research all the way, but I didn't say and its too late now). Then what, ~20 turns for Poly at max. So ~32 (maybe 40) tursn to Poly. I think I would prefer that Lug concentrate on growing and getting shields.

In conclusion, then we should probably chop one of the forests and irrigate the game, simply to help Lug grow. I would even spare a settler to help it grow. I just feel once ToA is out of the way then the game opens up for us.

I know the importance of pumpuing the settlers and improving the land, so I guess we need to find that balance.

@ dman: in 12T we can correct the research problem. in the meantime, we have a lot of gold to wheel and deal so buying alphabet and then max research for writing is possible. if we beeline for Philosophy (no need for CoL or anything else 1st), we may still have a chance. imho, i'd rather do a palace prebuild for ToA than research Poly next, which only makes the tech cheaper for the AI, so Mas is really needed atm.

one thing i have learned with C3C is that you either do max possible research or none at all. min research runs rarely pay off due to the extra 10turns it takes, and buying techs is generally more expensive than researching them yourself. there are times when it makes sense to turn it off, but even in the beginning of the game, it makes no sense to try the min run like is normal in PTW/Civ. That's not a shot at Smackster, as I should have raised my voice after seeing the screenie @ 3000BC. Anyways, this being only emporer, we can correct it and recover.

edit: x-post :)

I am having doubts on the way we are doing research.
We should have started the research the way we usually would do it in any emperor game. Getting us polytheism 20 or even 30 turns faster won't give us ToA any sooner but will probably worsen our positions from other prospectives...
It is probably too late but going alphabet->writing->philosophy, snatching math and wheel and eventialy trading for polytheism sounds like a better option to me.
Timing Poly with our pre-build is probably the way to go. Doubts about the way we started don't help us now really. I never meant for us to do min research on Myst, if we could get it in a reasonable timeframe, but the Philosophy gambit is a risk in itself, adding that with the risk of missing this wonder, is what, yes its a double risk.

We know how to catch up on research. All we need is HBR and all the techs will come for free. But if somebody else builds the ToA then its game over.

Here is our plan. Get ToA, get HBR, conquer the world.

Good points. My question is when should our ToA pre-build start.
imho, after the temple and the additional workers. it takes 3T to road each BG, and 3 or 6 turns (depending on the # of workers) to mine it. So we can probably use only 2 workers and still keep up with growth. maybe 4 is too many, but it will get all the work done a little quicker and get Lug up in pop quicker too (i think).

Didn't realise that we couldnt' even do a pre-build. Yes we need Masonry.

I don't know why we would then just go for Poly. I don't think we have much chance of getting Philosophy and its only one free tech. We can get all the free techs we want once we start to conquer.

imho, after the temple and the additional workers. it takes 3T to road each BG, and 3 or 6 turns (depending on the # of workers) to mine it. So we can probably use only 2 workers and still keep up with growth. maybe 4 is too many, but it will get all the work done a little quicker and get Lug up in pop quicker too (i think).
Why do you want that temple? My logic about the early culture is that it makes no difference to the end result. If we get ToA in say 50 turns, then getting a temple in 10 will give us what, an extra few hundred culture. At the end of the game we'll be getting 1000+ per turn, so it likely will not make a difference.

I'm thinking of joining workers to Lug to speed it up. But you want Lug to build some workers.

I think we have a disconnect about how quickly we need ToA. You may well be right, but I just think its a risk.

Some more opinions are required.

@smackster: temple @ lug is to get more BG's (3 if i counted correctly) and the SE game. if we're not going to build a temple there, then there's no need to chop the game (unless you want to stress out a worker) as the shields will just evaporate if we're doing a palace prebuild.

probably you're thinking more clearly than me and intend to get the other tiles in range with additional towns via Entremont's pump instead?

edit: ok, i think i'm getting a better idea of what smackster wants ( :confused: ); perhaps we studder the settler pump @ Entremont but building 2 workers, then 1 settler, then 2 more workers, then let the settler pump run as normal. All 4 of the new workers improve the BG's around Lug, and the new settlers open up access to the additional BG's around it. Add more workers from Entremont if required. Lug starts it's prebuild after the current warrior, with whatever high shield item it can, then switches to palace once Mas is known. is that more in line with your thinking?

@smackster: temple @ lug is to get more BG's (3 if i counted correctly) and the SE game. if we're not going to build a temple there, then there's no need to chop the game (unless you want to stress out a worker) as the shields will just evaporate if we're doing a palace prebuild.

probably you're thinking more clearly than me and intend to get the other tiles in range with additional towns via Entremont's pump instead?
Yes I think we'll get the culture growth through settlers. I have clarity of thought on about 50% of my ideas, wish I knew which ones. Collectively we just need to keep testing each others ideas if we can, make sure they stand up.

I see now that Lug can actually get 6 BG's and two Game. Uncut that gives us size 11 (not sure if we can sustain that size with happiness) and a whopping 22 Shields per turn. Do I hear you say ToA and then Pyramids.

edit: ok, i think i'm getting a better idea of what smackster wants ( :confused: ); perhaps we studder the settler pump @ Entremont but building 2 workers, then 1 settler, then 2 more workers, then let the settler pump run as normal. All 4 of the new workers improve the BG's around Lug, and the new settlers open up access to the additional BG's around it. Add more workers from Entremont if required. Lug starts it's prebuild after the current warrior, with whatever high shield item it can, then switches to palace once Mas is known. is that more in line with your thinking?
Yes, however maybe that is too much, maybe we are starting the prebuild too early. Maybe we do have time to pump a worker (or two) from Lug, maybe that is better as overall it will get shields quicker. Although we do have the other city that is pumping workers too.

OK, here is what I think. Pump one worker from Lug, that worker chops the forest and irrigates it (with all these BG's we can afford to chop one forest to get +5fpt). Workers from Entrement, and other city, mine the BG's.

Tech for Masonry, and then Poly. I have not done the maths, but I reckon the timing is about right for Poly to hit when the ToA pre-build has 500 shields. We would need to drop some workers into Lug at some point to speed that up, and that choice gives us the flexibility to get the timing right.

ok, sounds good. palace costs are directly related to the size of your empire. initially, it will only be worth 300 shields, so we still need more towns to get it higher (i think it gets to 1000 shields when you reach the OCN, which is 20 for this map, not sure on the rate of rise, though wrong!).

edit: palace cost is as follows:

PC = C * 30

where C = # of cities, and it's rounded down to the nearest 100. So, for 500 shields, we need at least 17 towns.

Also, we need couple of more main core cities dedicated to military...
We need to synch our GA with the time when we can switch to ToA from pre-build or a little earlier.
This way Smackster's dream of getting Pyramids can really come true.

Playing now...

(0) 2150 BC
Set preferences
Consider MM Entremont from game to irrigated plains, but not sure if the governor will place on the silk then, so decide against it.

(1) 2110 BC
Move settlerpair SW
Lux->40%

(2) 2070 BC
Camulodonum founded: Barracks

(3) 2030 BC
Entremont: Settler->Settler
Alesia: Worker->Granary
Lug: Warrior->Worker
Lux->30%
Sending this settler south, to get other game in range for Lug

(4) 1990 BC
Contact with Japan straight across from Entremont: Up BW, TW and Alpha
Contact with Carthage past Mongols: Up BW, Masonry and alpha
Let the trading commence!
China: 162g for Mysticism
Carthage: 10g and Mysticism for Masonry
Japan: Masonry and Mysticism for Alpha, TW and 52g
China: Alphabet for BW and 45g
Carthage: 76g for TW
Mongols and China have IW as well, but can't get that without IW.
70% gets us Poly in 47... OUCH. We need roads!
Sliders to 0.7.3, -1gpt

(7) 1870 BC
Entremont: Settler->Settler
Lug: Worker->Palace

(8) 1830 BC
Found Richborough: Warrior

(10) 1750 BC
Unmoved settler was heading to grab the spices which Chengdu stole this turn, so not sure where to send it.
Status: 260g, -1gpt, 33 turns to poly

Looking good, Tarkeel. Going to bed now so will have to wait until tomorrow to DL the save.

here's the pic. imho, settler should go for the moutain goats to it's SW location. probably need the warrior from Camul to tag along. nice try going for the lux :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/jpg-dot-1750BC.JPG

I have it and will play friday night EST...
Have lots of time to discuss...

Military wise... are we going to built mostly horses or our UUs would be preffered this time since they are as fast but stronger?

What about city locations?
Should we try to expand west 1st or better build a city NE as a part of main core for military produce?

No horses in sight for now Dman. I hope we have iron in that mountainrange, or this could turn ugly.

We really need to connect our luxury soon though, Alesia is right on the border to riot.

Proposed city locations west from capital.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/clt1750BC.JPG


Existing settler is going to the green dot.
Next settler is heading to the blue dot...
Both dots are on river which is good. We will also claim most of the mountain grid so if iron is there it will be ours... (I have a feeling we won't have neither iron or horses in M-B designed map)

Something is wrong with Entremont. It will grow to pop7 next turn but settler won't be ready in 2 turns... I will have to look if it is possible to MM it.
Alesia will need an MP and i will hook up lux.
I suggest we get couple of workers from entremont after this settler... we need to get more roads.

and possible city locations east from capital.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/clt1750BCeast.JPG

Please feel free change and correct.

Entremont is fine. it'll move citizen 7 to the silk forest, giving you nine shields on the ibt, thus the settler will pop out ;)

nice dot map's, they look fine with me :) i forget the bonus with the clams, but i think it's 1 shield and 1 gold.

Entremont is fine. it'll move citizen 7 to the silk forest, giving you nine shields on the ibt, thus the settler will pop out ;)

nice dot map's, they look fine with me :) i forget the bonus with the clams, but i think it's 1 shield and 1 gold.

Got it..
Those are oysters and they give 2 food 2 gold

Here is the picture... What would be the most efficient way to hook up silks.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/silkshookup.jpg

Thought we were chopping 1 game to speed up Lug's growth.

Getting Lug to grow seems to be very important right now.

Which game do you want me to chop...
North or south from Lug?

I also want to build a worker after warrior in Richborough

I think whichever one you can get to first. If north the shields will go to Entremont, so best that we don't waste them. Then irrigate it of course.

The southern forest game chop will go to Richborough. Maybe we can get a quick temple built down there to get the BG NE of Lug? imho, we need to slip a worker or 2 between the next 2 settlers to help build-up lug.

(Chop and) road the northern game, then road the silks should be the best way I think. If you change Entremont to a wonder the turn the chop will finish, it will go to Lug instead.

Dot map: on the first map I would probably move all of the dots, but the magenta, one tile SW. That is if we intend to keep them productive and not just aim to cram them in for culture. if not all so at least the yellow dot so it is founded in a tundra tile and not in a grassland. The green dot maybe west over the river dependent on what is under the fog.

Dot map: on the first map I would probably move all of the dots, but the magenta, one tile SW. That is if we intend to keep them productive and not just aim to cram them in for culture. if not all so at least the yellow dot so it is founded in a tundra tile and not in a grassland. The green dot maybe west over the river dependent on what is under the fog.
I agree that we should build on the tundra where possible.

I don't have strong feelings on changing those city placements. Even without RCP there is still value to a semi-ICS close city build. Key goal is to build up our horse army (I assume we wont have horses in this area, that would make it too easy, and we know MB is evil), and that means most cities will be small during that time.

I'd tend to just cram them in, and then sort out the shield city sizes later.

So on this thought, it would be nice to know if we have horses. Lets put more effort now into getting Lug larger and more productive.

Yellow dot could be moved 1 tile N. which is also a tundra tile.

wouldn't be blue dot too close to Lug if we move it SW.
Green dot can be moved one tile NW. We have mountains west from it.


@Smackter: Why do you oppose idea of building Gallic Swordsmen army?

@Smackter: Why do you oppose idea of building Gallic Swordsmen army?
Mainly as I forgot we had them :lol:

Well we have to determine the resource status iron/horses. A fair group of Gallic Swordsmen are fine, but obviously can't be upgraded so I guess as we approach Chivalry, maybe once in the MA we should switch to horses exclusively.

Mainly as I forgot we had them :lol:

Well we have to determine the resource status iron/horses. A fair group of Gallic Swordsmen are fine, but obviously can't be upgraded so I guess as we approach Chivalry, maybe once in the MA we should switch to horses exclusively.

I thought along the same lines...

@Team: Please confirm city locations. Also confirm to pump couple of workers after the settler is built in Entremont.

I can't give you a definate view between yours and Wotans placements. Clearly building on the tundra is obviouse.

I like that we pump two workers after the next settler. I do want them to prioritise, cutting and irrigating that game. Then drop one worker into Lug. That should be about the end of your 10 turns, and we can look at what to do from there.

IThen drop one worker into Entrement. That should be about the end of your 10 turns, and we can look at what to do from there.
Did you mean dropping it into Lug??? Entremont grows fast enough with granary.

Did you mean dropping it into Lug??? Entremont grows fast enough with granary.
Yes, I fixed that post. With Poly in 33, we need to start speeding up Lug shield growth

i'm still not sure why the team perfers the game close to entremont vs the one near richborough. the one near Entremont will require 2 tiles to be irrigated, while the other one will only require 1. also, Richborough could use the 10 shields to speed up some infrastructure or build an exploring curragh while i'm not sure what entremont would do with the shields other than throw off the settler/worker cycle.

I didn't notice the time to irrigate issue, so this one is easy then, cut the game to the south. Let the shields go to something useful in Richbourough.

Southern game also look like a better option to me.
I will road northern game though and then road silk forest for total of 12 turns :eek:

roading the BG and then the silks will take 11 turns total (including movement). roading the 2 forests will take 14, including movement. or, just forget it for now and ride the lux slider, we have 260g in the bank atm.

I was kinda hoping 260g in bank will be enough to buy IW once all AIs know it.

Riding the lux slider will directly affect our research though, as we have 0% tax running already.

It's no problem getting the chop to land for a granary in Lug, just put a wonder in Richmond..

Riding the lux slider will directly affect our research though, as we have 0% tax running already.

It's no problem getting the chop to land for a granary in Lug, just put a wonder in Richmond..
ah, so we need at least 1 lux or another MP down there. probably both when we get bigger.

re: granery: -> i thought we were going to let Lug grow to size 7, then join the workers that are improving the local terrain. not sure we want those 50 shields to go towards the granery or be 10% of ToA.

I would not waste any shields on a granary in Lug. I actually thought we had already started our pre-build. I don't think we should wait for Lug to grow naturally we need to enhance its growth a little. I see two very good sites, with Granaries that can provide all the growth needed in Lug.

Ok... I have the plan... ToA and then probably close to the end of my turns I will have Pyramids ready... Oh... well... please don't get mad at me if Pyramids will still have a turn or two left :mischief:

@dman: make sure you download the save again tonight before playing. alanh needs to fix something wrt ship movement.

Roger that...

Pre-turn:
moving settler to the green dot as discussed.

t1. 1725BC. Entremont settler->settler. fix citizens in Entremont
China has the best deal on IW... We can buy it for 3gpt +245gold.
But i abstain this time if we want research poly full speed.
Carthage has knowledge of writing.

IBT China boots us out.

T2. 1700BC. nothing

T3. 1675BC. Richborough warrior->worker. Lug grows. Alesia grows to pop4 and about to riot.. I pushed lux up to 40%


T4. 1650BC. Verulamium founded near goats, switched to warrior.

IBT. China boots us again.

T5. 1625BC Entremont settler->worker

IBT Vikings completed Collosus

T6. 1600BC Richborough worker->barracks. Gergovia founded on blue dot, switched to warrior.

T7. 1575BC Entremont worker->settler. Worker goes to help Lug. I decided to pull one worker then settler then another worker... I can't explain it but i feel this way is better.

IBT. Babylon finished Oracle. Mongols are building pyramids.

T8. 1550BC Camulodunum barracks->warrior. Alesia has grown to pop5. Can't use lux slider no more.. Hire a scientist to prevent riot.

t9. 1525. I have 3 workers mining BGs around Lug and one chopping southern game.

T10 1500BC. Verulamium warrior->barracks. Settler is delivered to the 1tile north from yellow dot city. Alesia granary->warrior. Game to be chopped next turn. One worker hasn't been assigned. I wasn't sure where to send it 1st. I thought Alesia needed warrior for MP before it starts pumping settlers.

Wonder cascading started somewhat early. Looks like AIs capitals have lots of BG tiles around them. Can't explain so early wonder builds otherwise.
All AIs but China up Writing and IW on us. China only knows IW.
Haven't met any of the "unknown" tribes"

Link to the save for your convinience (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Smackster_SG006_BC1500_01.SAV)

Map is provided below.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/clt1500BC.JPG

Looks good :)

Wouldn't suprise me if m-b beefed up the capitals to neutralize the ToE advantage in C3C, although the Jason dates are different to compensate as well..

Its me up, can't look until later

An interesting piece of information:

Team Bede (C3C) has just learned Maths and the production queue shows the Statue of Zeus and not an elephant in sight


No - The prerequisite is silks because the GOTM resource order is different in the biq to native C3C

Its not clear to me, but I assume I should wait before playing until Alanh makes some change

Looks like Alan has fixed whatever needed to be fixed..
He posted the following at 1PM EST. I believe you can go ahead and play Smackster

I have uploaded the edited files. You should now be able to sail your C3C ships further and faster.

Please let me know if you have any (technical) problems with these files.

I've had a look at least. I made one turns moves. Popped a map from that nearby hut.

Will play tomorrow night for sure.

T0 1500BC
Move NW warrior from Verulamium towards goodie hut. SE warrior protecting settler scouts, sees barb
Worker to irrigate plains

T1 1475BC
Warrior pops a map, so we can see a little further. Lug is tweaked for shields not growth until we need it, growth will have to come from elsewhere.

Gorgovia warrior->barracks
Camulodumum warrior->warrior
Entremont settler->settler, my choice to send him is in the direction of Chengdu to push them back a little

Alesia changed to get a worker

Game forest is chopped, now to irrigate it.

T2 1450BC
China want 33 gold, and we give it to them.

Alesia worker->settler

We spy some purple borders near Carthage

T3 1425BC
China boots our warrior, but in the right direction.
Worker moving to be dropped into Lug

T4 1400BC
Warrior moves into range of the purple, its Iroqouis, and look there is an Indian warrior too. Iro are up IW, Writing, and HBR, Indian also have maths.
Certainly some trading opportunities here.

Writing is very expensive, more so that HBR, which we can get for 4 GPT, and 180 gold. As the 4 others don't have it, we may get that back and more

Mongols buy HBR for 47 and Writing. Writing we sell to China for IW and 75 gold. We have iron.
We sell HBR to China for 78 gold.

We have 220 gold and are down one tech now with Iro, equal with the rest.

T5 1375BC
Entrement settler->settler this one goes east

Agedincum is settled near Chengdu.


T6 1350BC
China come up with Poly

We drop another settler in Lug, needs some happiness.

T7 1325BC
Lug now at size 6, producing 10 shields per turn. Happiness at 60% just for one turn. Starting to road the luxury

T8 1300BC
Alesia settler->worker
Richborough barracks->warrior

MP arrives at Lug, slider back to 40%

Poly in 5

T9 1275BC
Entrement settler->settler
Camul producing warriors every two turns.

T10 1250BC
India come up with Poly, we can get it from them for 40 gold. They are however building the ToA. I complete this trade, even though its the last turn as its an obvious one.

However, maths can be traded for Poly, but this should be looked at. I guess we should trade it round and get what we can for it.

I tweak Lug to get ToA in 35 now, it will grow in 3 and with the lux hooked in two we can grow it more.

Feel free to tweak the tech

There is a settler north that can settle next turn. There is one south, going towards lux.

I have stolen goods from our settler factory for use in Lug.

Roster

smackster (just played)
Wotan (up)
Grahamiam (on deck)
Tarkeel
Dman

Looks good..
We should start readying troops for some butt kicking.
China is going to be first I assume.

Agedincum is extremely agressive. we'll be lucky if that doesn't flip. also, i would recommend we steer away from a warrior->UU upgrade, as our UU costs 40 shields. C3C upgrade costs are delta shields * 30. so we are looking at 90g per upgrade. just something to consider...

nice trading :goodjob: any thoughts on mass joining once Lug reaches size 7? even if it costs extra lux tax, we probably need to do it.

Agedincum is extremely agressive. we'll be lucky if that doesn't flip.

Switch it to temple and pop rush. Better lose some shields on temple build than flipping chances.

Got it!

Looks good. Agedincum will have to be "fixed". A rushed temple seems to be the easiest way. Otherwise I see no real issues in need of a team decision. Will play tonight. So expect to have the save by the time you come home from work on the east coast.

I've been thinking about the 35 turns to ToA, and think it may be too long now.

I think its time for drastic action, hook up the road, build some of our UU and start our GA. Although the ugrades are expensive, we should also stop research for now, and gather cash. I think we should start this war with our first UU.

I always build cities in places like Agedincum and it serves well, how far from our palace is it?, and even without a temple the flip chance is 0.153% (which is 1 in 653), so although I think its fine to build a temple, we should not be concerned about a flip. In fact Chengdu should be our first target and problem solved.

I suggest Alesia is switched to another worker, and we send all spare workers to road the iron.

Note for Wotan
Just so its clear from my notes, you need to compete the trading for this turn. There is clearly some gold to be had.

re: despot GA: it will not bump bg's up to 3spt, but will bump mined grass and irrigated plains to 2 spt.

the only way i see Lug to increase output is to increase population, allowing it to work the 6 BG's and 4 forests in it's radius. it could also work 1 mined hill. that should give it ~16-18spt (20spt minus corruption) at size 11. The town will need at least 2 MP's (i think it has them already) and we will have to ride the lux slider heavily. therefore, imho, Entremont should spit out workers like crazy, so we can mine and road the bg's and road the forests (extra income for lux tax). also, continue building workers to join into town. just my $US0.02

re: despot GA: it will not bump bg's up to 3spt, but will bump mined grass and irrigated plains to 2 spt.

the only way i see Lug to increase output is to increase population, allowing it to work the 6 BG's and 4 forests in it's radius. it could also work 1 mined hill. that should give it ~16-18spt (20spt minus corruption) at size 11. The town will need at least 2 MP's (i think it has them already) and we will have to ride the lux slider heavily. therefore, imho, Entremont should spit out workers like crazy, so we can mine and road the bg's and road the forests (extra income for lux tax). also, continue building workers to join into town. just my $US0.02
Very good point. So we should wait on the GA. However, based on the 90 GP upgrade for our UU, I do suggest we start to road the iron anyway. Get our troops ready and attack China when we have 8-10 UU's in place.

Agreed that we should start to put more pop into Lug. Even if we have to start pushing the lux slider up and up. Roading our two luxes will help, but even if we have to push happiness to 60/70% we should do that now.

I Suggest we do turn of research for now, the AI will beat us to anything anyway.

G-man is right about GA disabilities... Not much will it give us in terms of Lug production bonuses...
But we are bound to have despot GA anyways... Despotism is the only government we are going to have in this game and even lousy despot GA will help us just a tiny little bit production-wise.

I am with Smackster on starting warfaring as soon as practically possible..
The sooner we start clearing land of AIs the better..

On unrelated note, from maintenance forum I've read we have huge map OCN.

imho, if we want to start warfare and trip a GA, we'll need at least 3 barracks towns doing 10spt (GS's every 4T each, this assumes a GA bonus, not preGA spt :) ). otherwise, it seems wasteful with just 1. i have no problem with hooking up the iron now and building up forces, let's just make sure we have a couple more barracks towns ready for troop buildup when the GA hits. we really want to roll-up the chinese with this one :hammer:

re: huge map OCN -> this fits us perfectly :dance: as AI research should be slow too. however, they will definitely beat us to MM, so, if we do research, let's do something like currency. otherwise, turning it off and doing research-by-sword is fine with me.

100% Concur... We need more "military factories" before we start GA and total war.

We'll have 3 barracks in 4 turns. Although it will take longer to get those towns up to the shield requirements. I don't think there is anything we can do to help those cities along as we need to concentrate on Lug.

My criteria for going to war is simply based on how many UU's we can build. So once we have about 8, lets go to war, whenever that is. I that is enough to start it. The border is fairly compact so we should be able to control anything they throw at us.

100% Concur... We need more "military factories" before we start GA and total war.
So I think we have that in place. Lets start the war based on how many troops we can get to the front.

Hi guys I played on the way home and unfortunately did not have the last few posts available. I hope I have not done anything too wild. I roaded/mined a few more tiles around Lug and built a few Workers to join to it so most is within what you have been discussing.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Smackster1k.JPG
Turn log

0 – 1250BC Pre-flight
Iroquois have probably met Carthage and will trade Maths/Poly IBT if we do not do it before then. So I trade Poly for Maths and 66 gold from Iroquois. Research changed to Philosophy, we will get it plus MM in 10 turns if the gambit pays off.

1 – 1225BC
Camulodunum builds Warrior, Warrior started. Richburough builds Warrior, Archer started. Augustodurum builds Warrior, Worker started. Burdigala founded, Barracks started.

2 – 1200BC
Eboracum builds Warrior, Worker started.

3 – 1175BC
Entremont builds Settler, Settler started. Camulodunum builds Warrior, Warrior started. India, China and Carthage have MM! We trade HBR for a Worker and 12 gold from Japan.

4 – 1150BC
Verulamium builds Barracks, Worker started. ¨Gergovia builds Barracks, Worker started. Cataractonium founded, Worker started.

5 – 1125BC
Alesia builds Settler, Settler started. Camulodunum builds Warrior, Warrior started. Iroquois starts building ToA.

6 – 1100BC
Richburough builds Archer, Warrior started.

7 – 1075BC
Entremont builds Settler, Settler started. Verulamium builds Worker, Archer started. Eboracum builds Worker, Barracks started. Camulodunum builds Warrior, Warrior started. Macao founded next to where I was sending a Settler. Traded Poly and Maths for MM from Mongols.

IBT: Chinese starts building ToA. English have finished the Pyramids in York. Iroquois and India cascade to ToA! :(

8 – 1050BC
Nada

9 – 1025BC
Camulodunum builds Warrior, Warrior started. Richburough builds Warrior, Warrior started. Gergovia builds Worker, Archer started. Philosophy researched… No free tech… :( Researching Currency.

10 – 1000BC
Alesia builds Settler, Settler started. Agedincum builds Temple, Barracks started. Lapurdum founded, Barracks started.

After action report:
One Settler in position to found a city next to Spices. Two more Settlers on the road, they might be able to expand our in such a fashion we are able to use them to claim land and then use future Settlers to “crowd it”.

Joining Workers to Lug: One “Japanese” Worker in position to join next turn. Two more will finish roads in two turns. The added commerce from those roads was so valuable I decided to road before joining them to Lug. I have built 3 Workers and another 2 are almost finished. We need to connect the Dyes and Spices.

I have added a few Archers to the builds since upgrading in C3C is so expensive. Maybe we have enough Warriors for the moment?

Firaxis: 352

EDIT: To hook up Iron, switch Warrior in Camulodurnum to Worker and move the Worker claring a forest nearby to help out.

How many turns to ToA? looks like 33 on my screen, but I hope its 23. Either way we have to accept there is a good chance we'll miss out on that, but we should put all resources into increasing Lug production now.

Getting on a war footing is our only way to succeed in this game, so lets get that iron hooked and start to take over China.

There does appear to be some cash to be made from trading right now. I suggest we do now turn off research, it was worth going for Phil, but for now lets gather cash for upgrades.

Also would be good to have a look at those cities building ToA, if they are capitals, and if an embassy is cheap enough (~40 gp)

ToA in 20 turns, should go to about 15 when the three workers are joined. Just over 250 shields left.

Forgot about trading opportunities. None of our contacts have Phil so we can get some gold from India for it.

ToA in 20 turns, should go to about 15 when the three workers are joined. Just over 250 shields left.

Forgot about trading opportunities. None of our contacts have Phil so we can get some gold from India for it.
Great, still looks like 33 on my screen :crazyeye:

Well that makes me feel better, 15 turns, gives us a chance, but from now every turn counts, squeeze it. If we get it this game is ours, if we miss it then we'll have fun anyway, but we'll be rushing temples for a long time to come (I guess we might be able to capture it if we are lucky)

Yes lots of cash out there and no point holding onto Phil.

Map looks great, but with all this wonder cascading 15 turns may not be good enough...
AIs may get to ToA much faster than that.
Do we have another wonder to roll back if ToA is taken, would be bad if we loose all these shields...
Let's do best shot at ToA and if we lose lets hope China builds it for us :)

EDIT: Lets establish embassies and we might have an idea how well ToA build is going on for AIs

Embassies might be a good expenditure right now. Make a note/Screenshot of each capital as you go though, so we have the reference.

We're (as always) looking good on the score graph too :)

If its embassies make sure they are building TOA in the capital, or we'll have to pay even more. We don't want to spend all our cash, just a little, we need that war

got it. will post screenies in an hour or so....

Preflight check: Lug is doing 15spt with 86% corrupt free shields (13). Looking at the terrain, it looks like 11 out of 12 workers can work 2 shield tiles @ Lug, so it will get up to 23spt, or 19spt with corruption in 2T if I join the settler
Let’s see, India and Iroquois are the ones who cascaded from Pyramids to ToA. Iroquois in Salamanca (capitol) and India in Dehli (also capitol)

Hehe, Dehli (India) is size 3 and will be done the ToA in 55 turns :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/jpg-india-1000bc.jpg

Salamanca (Iroquois) is size 4 and will be done the ToA in 28 turns. Too close for me.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/jpg-iroquois-1000bc.jpg

Karakorum (Mongols) is size 6 and will be done the ToA in 51 turns

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/jpg-mongols-1000bc.jpg

Need 55g to build an Embassy in Carthage. Sell Philosophy to Carthage for 180g

Carthage (Carthaginian) is size 6 and will be done the ToA in 13 turns :hmm: That’s trouble.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/jpg-carthage-1000bc.jpg

Finally, Beijing (China) is size 6 and will be done the ToA in 27 turns

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/jpg-china-1000bc.jpg

Oh yeah, and Kyoto (Japan) is size 3 and building a settler

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/jpg-japan-1000bc.jpg

We have about 260 shields left. We will do 1 turn at the current 13 (260-13 = 247). Then the next turn at 14 shields (247-14 = 233). The next turn I will join 2 workers and a settler, and it wil do 19spt from then on, so 233/19 = 13 turns, so 15 turns total. We will lose this race by 2T.

Ok, what if I move the workers now so they join next turn? Still get 260-13 = 247. The following turn we will do 17spt, so 247-17 = 230. Then we will do 19spt and still be done in 15 turns total :(

Ok, with our new embassys, we know that Iroquois only have warriors, Japan has swordsman, and Carthage has NM’s. This is really tough, declare and they get a GA and ToA even quicker. However, they may change from ToA to something like a unit. However, it will take 10T for a Jap sword to reach Carthage land :( Iroquois could reach it immediately, but they only have warriors. Ditto Mongols (who are actually weaker than us )

We have only 9 workers so Alesia becomes a worker pump.

Decide to stop 2 of the local workers so 3 will join lug next turn. Maybe my corruption calcs are off and we can shave a turn or 2 off this.

Trade: (earlier sold Philo to Carthage for 180g); Sell Philo to India for 49g

Switch Burdigala to galley, we need to meet everyone else.

IBT: Entremont settler -> worker; Camul warrior -> archer; August worker -> worker

T1: 975BC 3 workers join Lug and its at 18spt after corruption as I’m able to use another BG from Entremont now that we’re only building workers there Even with Lux tax @ 100%, we still have 3 unhappy faces
Turn off research and set Lux tax to 60%. ToA time is down to 14 turns :(

IBT: Japan demands Philo and I cave; Alesia worker -> worker; Japan building MoM; Iroq the GLight

T2: 950BC Iroquois are now up Construction. Join a Settler into Lug and we are up to 21spt after corruption, ToA in 11turns :dance:
Found Tolosa -> worker
Investigate Carthage again:
The race :twitch: we are at 11 turns too!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/jpg-carthage-950bc.jpg

IBT: Entremont worker -> worker; Richborough warrior -> warrior

T3: 925BC workers mine hill near Lug

IBT: Alesia worker -> worker; Verulamium archer -> spear; Cataractonium worker -> worker

T4: 900BC worker moves. Running the new warrior up to Camul so it’s in position for upgrade

IBT: Entremont worker -> worker

T5: 875BC Found Lindum -> worker

IBT: Alesia worker -> worker; Camul archer -> spear; Richborough warrior -> warrior; Burdigala galley -> barracks

T6: 850BC ditto

IBT: Entremont worker -> settler

T7: 825BC more worker moves. Galley is headed due N.

IBT: Alesia worker -> barracks

French Finish SoZ, no cascade :)

T8: 800BC nada

Richborough warrior -> galley; Gergovia acher -> cat

T9: 775BC Found Nemausus -> worker
Switch Camul to granary (GS prebuild); Verulamium gets the same treatment

IBT: we get the Forbidden Palace message

T10: 750BC moving.

Sorry, but the suspense is killing me. Gotta play 3 more turns to see if we get ToA :)


IBT: Iron connected
August worker -> barracks

T11: 730BC Hey! Looks like we found another bug :lol: GS’s only cost 60g to upgrade :dance: Celebrate by upgrading 3 vet warriors in Camul.

IBT: Eboracum barracks -> GS; Tolosa worker -> worker
Bablylon completes ToA, France completes MoM, Iroquois complete GWall, Vikings complete GLibrary :gripe:

T12: 710BC Galley meets an American warrior. They are up CoL, Lit, and Construction.

Stop here as we lost this race. Recommend Lug gets our FP. This will be a killer town in the future so it might as well be our FP.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/jpg-710bc.jpg

Crap.... and what do we do now?
:(

pop rush temples as we found the towns. every 10T, new towns grow to size 2 and have 10 shields in the bank, so you pop rush at that point. oh yeah, and we have to kill everyone :lol: otherwise, someone might get above 50k in culture and slow us down.

We better pop rush them in every city we already have then.

We better pop rush them in every city we already have then.
let's just make sure we have 10 shields in the bin and that should be fine. otherwise, we waste too many citizens or too many shields.

well, look at it this way, if we have to research beyond education, there's no repercussions. we should probably go after Lit soon so we can build libraries too.

Can't believe it, one turn, one little turn. Valiant effort, this will be a challenge to win, but I think M-B knew that it would be hard to build ToA, so maybe other teams will not get it.

Sure we should start popping those temples, but also start to conquer our way over the map.

We should put our head together over how many UU's we need before we start to conquer. I suggested 8-10, but I'm not so sure

Roster

Smackster
Wotan
Grahamiam (just played)
Tarkeel (up)
Dman (on deck)

How annoying. Why is it always on the last turn but one that an AI get the GW built? :( I am a bit annoyed with my own set of turns now, I should have joined workers immediately to Lug, not built roads first... Then we would probably have had that extra turn worth of shields.
Valiant effort Grahamiam! Disappointing though with no neighbours building any of the GWs...

Ouch... What a horrid bit of luck :( I'll play 8 turns now and try to get us back on schedule.

Played up to turn 8 (my 6th), and forces are in place to :bonk: the Chinese. Should we let them have it and trigger our GA?

I'd say do it..
will probably help us to build a formidable army to roll over couple of more AIs.
I wonder how far Babylon and ToA from us...

Do we have curraghs??? probably should build one.

i'm still angry over losing ToA. give'em hellll :aargh:
:hammer:
:cringe:

or you could wait for a calmer member of our team to respond...

@dman -> we have 1 galley out exploring, no dingies (nor can we build them now that we have MM)

First time i see G-Man upset ever... :)

BTW, M-B posted some updates on changes he implemented with C3C version of the game...
Look 1st post in maint. thread.

I'm interested to know the size of our military? Although I'd tend to go in even if we had a small army

(2) 710 BC
Go over and change a few cities to temples
Rush in Burdigala.
Change Lug to FP with 287 waste :(

(3) 690 BC
Entremont: Settler->Settler
Alesia: Barracks->Temple
Lug: FP->Temple
Camulodunum: GS->Temple
Burdigala: Temple->Harbor

(4) 670 BC
Pop rush temple in Cataractonium, Gergovia

IBT
India kicks us out

(5) 650 BC
Lug: Temple->Barracks
Gergovia: Temple->GS
Agedincum: Barracks->GS
Cataractonium: Temple->Worker
Poprush in Lindum, Eboracum
Lux -> 40%

IBT
Mongols start Lighthouse
China acquires Monarchy

(6) 630 BC
Richborough: Temple->Granary
Eboracum: Temple->Galley
Lapurdum: Temple->Barracks
Lindum: Temple->Harbor
Lux to 30%, entertainer and 20spt in Lug
Pop rush in Verulamium
China won't sell us Monarchy, so can't use that to trade around for new techs :(
Upgrade 2 warriors.

(7) 610 BC
Entremont: Settler->Settler
Lug: Barracks->GS
Verulanium: Granary->Temple
Upgrade 1 warrior

(8) 590 BC
Alesia: Temple->GS
Camulodunum: Temple->GS
Spot orange borders in the north
Extort some gold from Mao and declare war.
Battle of Chengdu:
4/4 Archer vs 3/3 Spear -> 3/3 Spear
4/4 GS vs 3/3 Spear -> 2/4 GS, capturing Chengdu for 2g
4/4 GS vs 3/3 Warrior -> 4/4 GS and 2 slaves

(9) 570 BC
Lug: GS->GS
We meet England, who is far behind (down writing). Sell writing for 19g
Found Curovernum: Temple
4/4 GS vs 3/3 Warrior -> 3/4 GS
4/4 GS vs 3/3 Warrior -> 4/4 GS
4/4 GS vs 3/3 Archer -> 4/4 GS
4/4 GS vs 3/3 Warrior -> 3/4 GS
Upgrade 2 warriors
Poprush in Nemausus

(10) 550 BC
Nemausus: Temple->barracks
Rush in AUgustodorum
4/4 GS vs 3/3 Warrior -> 2/4 GS
4/4 GS vs 3/3 Archer -> 2/4 GS
3/4 GS vs 3/3 Archer -> 3/4 GS
Battle for Macao
4/4 GS vs 3/3 Spear -> 2/4 GS
4/4 GS vs 3/3 Spear -> 2/4 GS, razing Macao with 1 worker

Total: 4 slaves

Notes: The next 2 settlers shold load in the galley Eboracum is building and settle the small islands around us
I'm setting up Richborough as another settler factory.
Tolosa and Verulamium should be rushed next turn

We have 7 SGs at the front, 2 moving to the rear and reinforcements coming of the assembly line. 2 Chinese cities dead and eliminated 2 SoDs

Don't have many GSs but we will keep pumping those.
Should we try to settle west on our continent first before we start colonizing islands..
if you look at the map there is a source of incense west from us...
I would try to claim that first.

AIs have been bumped to Demi-god level unit support... so expect some though fighting ahead

Well done Tarkeel.

@Grahamiam: Don't be upset about the one turn. With hindsight you/the team should be upset I failed to join workers to Lug in time, I should have been able to shave another turn... So I am waiting for the "tar and feathers"... ;)

Well done Tarkeel.

@Grahamiam: Don't be upset about the one turn. With hindsight you/the team should be upset I failed to join workers to Lug in time, I should have been able to shave another turn... So I am waiting for the "tar and feathers"... ;)
We all had a chance to shave it, I could have joined settlers to Lug. I could have pushed harder to start building Lug sooner.

It happened, we just have to execute combat and temple pop rushing, see where we get.

Roster

Smackster (on deck)
Wotan
Grahamiam
Tarkeel (just played)
Dman (up)

I am ready to play...
Plan of action:
1. keep pressing China...
2. building up army.
3. popping settlers from Entremont and where else????

Do we want to proceed with colonization of islands as per Tarkeel suggestion,
or is it better to fill our continent first, especially to replace razed chinese cities.?
Should i try to expand with land grabbing or start squeezing cities in a between?
What's priorities for now?

... So I am waiting for the "tar and feathers"... ;)
you'll have to wait a long time if you expect that from me ;) i try not to take this too seriously, and my comment above was really in jest. plus, i thought it would be good for our moral and for our end game if we start really whipping the AI's now (during tarkeel's turns) than waiting a few more till we have the perfect amount of units.

we got lit yet? probably could use the libraries so we can drag our lazy a$$'s out of the AA and into the MA. :) looks like we'll roll up china fast if they only have warriors, archers, and spears.

1st leader goes for a GS army now that we have the FP? probably the 1st 3 will end up that way, but an MDI army is also useful.

we should also seriously start our ICS effort in New Celtic China, as we have reached the OCN, and are readily building up the core. we probably need to devise a way to quickly poprush libraries. perhaps we need to follow up the ICS towns with worker gangs, chopping and planting (when engineering comes it) up to 60 shields in less than 10 turns (pop rush @ size 2), or 40 shields in less than 30 turns (pop rush @ size 4). nothing we can do to speed up the temple pops that i can see.

Any cities we settle outside the OCN core, should simply be the closest. So if the islands are closer than the west then you know where to go. Then start packing them in at minimum distance. Score means nothing.

Don't forget to start popping temples, that should be the first priority of any city now.
Then start working on Libraries.

Now, do we assume that ToA is out of reach for us, so that we can research Education at some time, or rather trade for it?

3. popping settlers from Entremont and where else????

Richbourgh is ready once the granary completes. I'd like to put every city that has a food resource on settler duty asap, but Alesia (IIRC) needs to produce some more units first.

We don't have lit yet, and there aren't many that can sell it to us... Our economy is sound though, so we should be able to buy it pretty soon.

Remember, any city that has access to one square with 2 food can pop a temple after 10.

I am ready to play...
Plan of action:
1. keep pressing China...
2. building up army.
3. popping settlers from Entremont and where else????


perhaps, for the next few turnsets, each player can note the towns that do not have temples yet in thier closing comments. that way, we can focus on getting the core temples done as soon as possible.

A few thoughts,

a) Can we see horses on this map?
b) Lets increase our tech pace towards Knights/Cavalry. Do we skip Knights as the GS is not that far off it?
c) Shall we get some phoney wars, time to start the AI beating each other up.

i will find where horsies are and may start couple of phoney wars...

As of now, all cities either have temple, or are currently building.

Pre-turn: Absolutely nothing i can do but hit "next turn"

IBT. Chine reg. warrior vs 2hp GS ->GS promoted. Entremont settler->settler. Lug GS->GS; Augustodurum temple->barracks; Resistance in Chengdu ended.

T1. 530BC. Kill China archer. Glanum founded. Sending new settler to nearby island. worker actions. Need to heal troops before sending them towards China.

IBT. India boots us out. China sends few horses our way.. China has horses!!! another reason to wipe them out. Eboracum galley->galley.

T2. 510BC. Upgraded 2 more GSs... time to start research i guess... Well, the best we can do - currency in 10 turns, nobody has it so we can probably trade. We meet France... France as most of other AIs up CoL, Lit., Const., Monarchy.
Killed 2 horses, archer and a spear... But this will slow down our offensive since i have more troops to heal.

T3.490BC America, Iro and France are in MAs...
Trading around, France has best deal currency for 24gpt and 48 gold... Done!
Mongols will give us Const and CoL in exchange for currency.
Sell CoL to India for 53Gold. Trade literature for currency with Hannibal.
We are in MAs officially.
I suppose 24gpt is not such a bad deal for obtaining 4 technologies.
Switching to Engineering in 36turns, best we can do. Switch Lug to library in 4. I decided to go for engineering because I think AIs will beat us in Mono and Feud, but if we have monopoly on engineering we will have good trading opportunities. I might be very well wrong in my thoughts so i apologise in advance.
Moving GS in attack position next turn.


T4. 470BC. Capture Tientsin. worker actions.. bought monarchy from india for construction and lit.

T5. 450BC. Kill 3 china horses. moving GS on attack position

T6.430BC . BC. Capture Nanking. SOmething nasty is about to happen. Japan landed single horse on 2tile island where i've recently build city..

T7. 410BC. Japan lands sword in addition to horse on that island. I ask to leave or else... Japan declares on us. I kill sword GS promoted. Signing India, Carthage and Mongols into MA against Japan using our surplus techs.
Capture Tsingtao, Capture Shanghai,

T8. 390BC. Capture Chinese capital Beijing losing only a single SG. Capture Chinan. Japanese horse retreated from our island :-). Using slave to establish fur colony. Should get some troops together to take on horse town.

T9. 370BC. Failed to capture hangchow. Both GSs retreated. WIll take horse city next turn. Kill an archer. Entremont settler->setler. Lug SG-marketplace.

T10. 350BC. This is not good. China landed reg. warrior near Alesia.. I attack with vet. GS.-> GS redlined. China's warrior in full health.. Move reg. warrior from Eboracum to cover alesia. Curovernum riots. Captured Canton (horse city). Killed spear in Hangchow, but don't have more troops to attack... Pulled few GSs together to attack next turn.

Post-turn: I was confused what to do really. Switched builds to libraries in few cities. One settler is inside galley. Settler in entremont can go to the peninsula 3E from entremont and settle on japanese controlled land. We can switch production from GS to horses.. But i must say- Gallic Sword rulez. After we take Hangchow China will give away every single city they have but capital. So Smackster to decide on that.
Engineering in 15.

Save for your convinience (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Smackster_SG006_BC0350_01.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/clt350BC.JPG

woot! :hammer: nice! let's just kill off the chinese, if we can and ICS that land (ie, 2T apart!). nice bit of trading to boot :)

Impressive warfare given the limited resources I gave you ;) I might have gone for Feudalism myself, just to make sure we got it, as AIs place unreasonable high value on it in C3C

I might have made a mistake not going for Feud, so you guys have all the rights to slap me...
It's just in most of my recent games AIs would go for Mono and Feud and then keep going using upper branch of techs...
Lack of sci civilizations in this game (with exception of Babylon) made me think that they will all choose two upper techs to research and we might be only ones with engineering and that will allow us to trade in future since Feud will become quite cheap if many AIs know it.
I may be wrong but i thought it was worth gambling instead of been outresearched by AI.

I'd say we need to build more galleys and ship troops to Japs..
It looks like most of the best lands and wonders just on the other side of that narrow channel. Mongols don't look strong and we can keep figthing in two fronts perhaps.

woot! :hammer: nice! let's just kill off the chinese,
I think China has island towns....It might be better to take one more city then make peace for the rest of cities they have, wait peace time and then kill them off.

I check the flip chances, before deciding what to do with China, but I assume its on our side as our culture must be moving. We should start posting the culture score.

We do need to attack Japan, before they get Samurai :)

I might have made a mistake not going for Feud, so you guys have all the rights to slap me...
It's just in most of my recent games AIs would go for Mono and Feud and then keep going using upper branch of techs...