SGOTM6 - Celts. Team Peanut.

Welcome to your team thread for SGOTM06. I hope you enjoy the game.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM6-START.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Celts
World size - 100 wide by 130 high.
Difficulty Emperor (approximately)
Landform Contiguous Pangea

Here are a number of links you might find useful.

The Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1733966&postcount=61)
GOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71788)
Upload a Save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php)
Download a save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)
SGOTM06 Maintenance Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110909)

This Months' sponsored variant is Cultural Celtic Communists the rules for which are as follows.

1. The only allowed governments are despotism and communism.
2. You must win by 100K victory condition.

Your save has been uploaded to the server and will become available to you on the 7th February.

Hello team and wellcome Kaiser Berger :wavey:
Mailman done excellent job last time drawing up the roster, want to go at it again?

I've had a new computer since the last one and haven't even installed civ on this one yet, I suppose I better get on with it.
Hopefully no more problems with crashes :)

Hello everyone, I'm glad to be playing with you nutty folk :lol:

Seriously though, I am glad to be a part of your team and look forward to accomplishing some great things an most importantly having some fun :)

I've been considering our opening moves a bit already, and came to the conclusion that moving the worker NW would be most beneficial. I think we'll probably want to settle between the wheat and game if possible, as the cow appears to be a bit harder to access.

Kaiser - Welcome to the little packet of mixed nuts that is Team Peanut ! You have already shown you are well qualified to join when you wrote :

1) "... most importantly having some fun" - gotta keep this in perspective
2) "look forward to accomplishing some great things" - well someone has to make up for my spectacular blunders and in that illustrious task you join ranks with our other team experts.
3) considering opening moves - the more suggestions the better. We like to hear all opinions, even the loopiest ideas, because sometimes they can be the best ones.

Our expectation is that all will contribute their ideas, we constructively criticise and support eachother (so that we all learn), and that whoever is up makes the decisions that round. And have fun.

I think I'll start with one my exhasparating questions.
Why not settle on the spot?
Two turns to move the settler?
The cow will be within radius after first expansion.
(never played a 100K before, so not an expert, but..) we'll need a lot of cities right?
So we need a settler factory if possible. But does it have to be the capital?
Looks from the screenshot like a good candidate for tight RCP.
Cheers guys, I know you love explaining the obvious, really :p

Sorting out the roster: Who wants to start?
What time zone are you on Kaiser?
I'm out of town next weekend.

btw looks like we came fourth in the previous one, so let's target the medal postions this time, eh?

It is quite true that we could plop a city at around RCP distance 3 to be the settler factory, but its tough to say from this point. The spot two NW does look nice for a capitol settler factory, complete with two forests to chop to speed the granary. Many possibilities. I think getting some extra info from the worker will be of great help in making the decision. Whatver we do with the capitol, tight RCP would seem to be fitting for the variant, considering we will need lots of cities and given that we'll be hitting Communism later.

Edit- Forgot to mention I'm in GMT-6.

Hi All,

I am back.
I think the previous roster should work for SGOTM6 as well (KB replaces rrau)

The roster:
civ_steve
Peanut
Mathilda
Kaiser_Berger
MailMan
Keith Larson

(The start point of the roster is fluid)

(never played a 100K before, so not an expert, but..) we'll need a lot of cities right?I think my first Monarch win (Egyptians) was 100K - I did not even noticed at the time that it came to that.

First priotiry is not to build close cities. The first priority (like in most games) is rapid expantion and land grabbing. later on we will fill in the cities.

(Edit) : First move thoughts: I think KB is right - Worker to NW. and if the land is nice (i.e. we can get 4 turn settler factory) settle 2 NW.

The cow is accessible by land (we can see the shores) but too far away for the first city to exploit it from the start. we can leave the cow to the 2nd/3rd city.

civ_steve checking in! I was out of town this weekend; was wondering if it was SGOTM6 time, and so it is. :) Welcome, Kaiser_Berger! With this great group of players we should put some pressure on the top teams! (Certainly with our early play :; ; it was rather fun last SGOTM to see our score slope so far above and ahead of everyone else!)

I'm tending to agree that 2 NW looks pretty good! Upon expansion both the Game and Wheat will be useable, generating +2 food each, total +6! Nice to have 2 BG's, a couple of Hills and an extra forest to chop if need be. I also like the river location - extra Commerce for taxes or research and a free aquaduct, eventually. It's usually best to use the Capital for a Settler factory - it's not subject to as much corruption as even 1st rank cities, so you're more likely to set up a 4 turn Settler factory, or even one of those Warrior/Settler factories!

Growth will be key; we want to expand our cities as quickly as possible. After making a few warriors to send out as scouts, our capital will likely be building a Granary and then Settlers for a long time. A close by city will probably be churning out Workers; with +6 food in the capital we can MM one of the bonus foods and share it with this city, every other turn!

I played in GOTM18, which was the Celts, and got an early 1600's 100K victory. We'll need lots of cities (keep an eye on Domination limit, though!) We are Religious, so we get cheap Temples (30 Shields, so even perimeter cities should get a Temple after 10 turns with a pop rush) and Cathedrals (80 Shields, I believe). Libraries are also 80 shields, and are worth 3 culture per turn also, but only cost 1 gpt to maintain, so in general we should build Libraries before Cathedrals, even after we learn Monotheism. Universities at 200 shields are probably only buildable by the core cities; wait a minute - we're playing only Despotism and Communism (which I've never played before!); Communism has even waste I believe, so even far off cities should have some production. Well, we wont get there until the Industrial Age, anyway! (Anyone have any experience with Communism?)

Another thing we will have to gear up to do is using Workers to Forest and then Chop in adjacent squares! I don't bother usually, but I think that's going to be the difference between top 3 and middle 3.

Our UU is a fast Swordsman; costs 80 gold to upgrade to, but this is a real dominating unit so we should try to build a treasury and a supply of Vet warriors for upgrade.

Those are my thoughts!

Our save file is up! Here is what F10 space race reveals:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_f10.JPG

I count 5 expansionistic civs on the list; this is 'supposed' to be 'Contiguous Pangea' which sounds like we should be able to contact most everybody fairly quickly. Should we take a risk on not researching Pottery, plan to trade for it instead, and either save some money or go for Mysticism full bore? (I'm inclined to go for Mysticism full bore, btw.)

The water between us and the cow is 1 food coast, also.

Mathilda finished off SGOTM5 for us (almost 2 months ago!); should we continue on in the roster and appoint our newest member Kaiser_Berger as first player?

Also, we should probably move the Settler first, 1 NW to the mountain, to bring more spaces into view. That leaves the Worker free to move maybe North to the BG and start improving this useful space a turn early. Either 2 NW or 3 NW will bring both food bonuses into range of the capital, but 2 NW also gets the 2 BG's right away as well.

(Anyone have any experience with Communism?)
I think I've only tried it once and I found it very crippling to the production of core cities. As the core cities tend to be bigger than the outlying ones, effect on overall production was disasterous.
Of course in this, where getting the culture buildings to lots of little one horse towns is required, it will prob turn out to be useful, but let's try and have as many culture builds finished in the core cities before switching.
Cash will never be any good for rushing things in this game, it can only be used for trading.
What's the view on pop rushing a temple? Does the happiness from the temple cancel the unhappiness from the popping?

In Conquests communism is actually quite good once you have a large enough empire. My experiences with it in PTW have not been very spectacular, but I suspect it will be better than Despotism nonetheless.

Pop rushing temples often works out well, as the happiness from the temple usually offsets everything nicely.

I think going for Myst is a solid plan, as we do have plenty of neighbors with pottery, provided this really is a 'contiguous pangaea'....with MB, I don't think we can every be truly sure :lol:

I would be honored to start off for us, if thats alright. I can probably do so later this afternoon.

On a side note, it must be nice to have been done with SGOTM 5 for so long. Team Tone is still trying to fend off the AI Infantry with Cossacks :cry: Needless to say, our planning/strategy/luck plain sucked in that one, I look forward to a much more organized and thought out experience here.

I do not think that communism is a good regime in PTW. we might be better off with despotism.

I would like to through an idea - reaserch only up to Lit and focus our early efforts in expanding via conquests.
The downside to this idea is that we actually do not need the cash that this approach will get us. (Edit) actually it is the other way around - we can use it to upgrade warriors to swords. we can connect and disconnect iron in that approach.
The upside: we can use the lux slider however the quite down the pop rushing riots)
We might want to focus on building TGL (both for culture and techs) in that approach.

(Edit) We should target learning IW ASAP.

(Edit 2) I opened the save file. I think I spot silk W W NW. There seem to be ice to the S S E as well. Both this reasons suggest that moving NW NW with the settler is a good idea.

Kaiser_Berger: I think you can go first for 20 turns if you want.

In Conquests communism is actually quite good once you have a large enough empire. My experiences with it in PTW have not been very spectacular, but I suspect it will be better than Despotism nonetheless.
We are playing PTW, right?

We are playing PTW, right?yes. PTW it is (the message "yes" was too short)

Yes, yes we are.

Edit- First cross post already :lol:

4000 BC

Alright, here we go. Settler NW reveals a very nice location, complete with silks. Settler will go one more NW and settle. Move worker north to BG.

3900

Entremont founded. Start us out on a warrior. Best we can get on mysticism is 40 turns, so set research to min.

3700

Entremont-warrior-warrior

Send him north as we are in the south.

3500

Worker finishes improving BG, moves north to wheat.

3450

Entremont-warrior-warrior

After this next warrior, perhaps another worker? There is a lot of work to be done.

Northern warrior reveals another wheat which will be right outside the borders of Entremont :cringe:

3300

Entre-warrior-worker

I do worker for now, I hope to find someone with pottery before it completes, but if not we'll be able to improve our city faster anyway and will regain the pop quickly with wheat soon to be irrigated.

Spot dyes south of us.

3250

Spot a GH to the west.

3150

Contact a wounded Chinese warrior. They have no pottery, unfortunately, just Masonry.

3100

Entremont-worker-settler

Spot a barb camp already :eek: Also spot spices to the NW.

3050

Contact elite Mongol warrior. They are up 5 techs on us, including pottery. Best deal for pottery involves 4gpt, and don't want to commit us to that deal near the end of my turns.

3000

Mongols kill the barb camp.


Summary

We can get pottery for all our gold and 3gpt. I wouldn't do that just yet, as we can use the settler build as a prebuild for a granary. We can even switch it over to Heroic Epic if we want to hold off longer for more contacts. We seem to have some quite resourceful land around us. There are two GH nearby, but didn't pop them as we don't need barbs running even more amok yet.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/KBSGOTM6.JPG

And we're off! Before we go any further, let's give Keith a chance to check in. (Or did he say he'd be out at first?) Looks like Kaiser_Berger's scouts have found several sources of Luxuries, and we also seem to have some room to expand so a Granary definitely seems in order.

Doing a minimum on Mysticism: if I were settling a 2nd city before the Granary, I'd have pursued a maximum research. Going for Granary first, doing minimum might work out.

Do we have 3 Warriors and 2 Workers? If so we're running a -1 gpt for the extra unit. Finishing a Settler and founding our 2nd city will resolve that issue, but I'm leaning towards wanting the Granary first (which will mean a -2 gpt until the 2nd city is founded.)

The Mongols will take all our gold and 3 gpt for Pottery? I think I'd like to see if we can make another Pottery capable contact to bring that cost down! Holding Shields while building HE is an option, but we wont be able to cut any forest down while doing that.

Kaiser_Berger: in addition to uploading the file into the system, could you also post a copy in your summary thread? That way we have a history of all our saves for every turnset.

Mailman is up next! I haven't downloaded the save yet; we should figure out where we want our initial cities located before proceeding as well.

The SAVE (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81673&stc=1) (I was unable to use the sgotm submission page for some reason)

Turn log:

preflight: OK

1. 2950BC: move warriors.

2. 2900BC: pop hut for 2 barbs.

IBT. one barb promoted our W to vet.

3. 2850BC - adjust lux slider. set production to HE as prebuild

4. 2800BC - nothing much.

5. 2750BC - start choping game duw in 5.

6. 2710BC - nothing much. I noticed that the cow was taken by red civ.

7. 2670BC - nothing much.

8. 2630BC - adjust lux slider to 30%

9. 2590BC - trade pottery from mongols for 104g + 1gpt. they now have 623g
trade pottery to Mao for 35g. changed production to granery.

10. 2550BC - granery finished with chop.

To next player - I set to work the silk. It should be changed after 2 turn to grow in 3 turns instead of 4. The worker have not moved yet. I suggest roading the games and than the silk. we need the lux.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81672&stc=1

MailMan - I downloaded your save and tried to upload it. I got an error, too; it said you were using PTW 1.21 so the save was invalid. Check your PTW version to see if it is 1.21 or 1.27.

ainwood used PTW 1.21 successfully in SGOTM. I will ask Alanh to look into it. Mailman: you are properly registered for the team and will be able to upload saves once you offer the server something it likes.

I'll get it sorted.

I will check the software version tonight.
I used the same software for SGOTM4 & SGOTM5 without any problems up till now.

MailMan. I'm going to ask you to patch up to 1.27. older versions are not accepted by the checking software and I don't want to ask Alanh to recode it just for 1 person if that's OK.

I suggest the next player just downloads the save from the thread and plays on in 1.27. This will correct the version number and allow it to be uploaded. :)

OK. Keith Larson is up next. Before we play on, I'd really like to see some more discussion about our general plan to this game. City sites in particular, what sort of ring pattern we want to put in place, build options, research path, etc. Otherwise, we're 6 individuals playing parts of a game, and I don't think the result will be very good!

I'd also request that the players post more detail in their turn logs. Any manipulations of the Capital's citizens, turns that the Capital population grows, Luxury slider, etc. Chances are that later players will have to mimic some of those moves to get best performance from the capital. Contacts with the AI, please note more detail also. What 5 Techs are we down compared to the Mongols? (Starting Techs I can assume). I've had no chance to actually look at the save files, so any discussion of things to come depends on information included in the turnlog.

Indeed my software version is 1.21f
I will patch it up soon.

civ_steve: sorry for the lack of details in the turn log. I will add more details next time.

Some info:
China is up: BW, Mas. 0g
Mongols is up: BW, Mas, Alpha, Wheel, myst. 624g
each of them has at least 2 cities. as well as the unknown red civ.

I think our immidiate goal is to set up settler factory. we should check if we can also produce warrior as well.
all the new cities should produce barracks first and then spawn warroirs.

Edit: I patched the game, reloaded 2550BC, saved it and uploaded a fixed save to the submition page.

In the picture below is a suggestion to RCP3 city placemnt:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81753&stc=1
I numbered thme according to the settling priorities:
The first 3 cities has river
The #1 city can bring water to the game (as well as only two turns away due to the road).

Please comment.

I've just been examining our settler factory situation, and we're going to have to irrigate the game and mine one of the plains to make it work. At size five we should be able to pull in 7spt with the capitol square(+1), 2BG(+4) and the mined plain(+2). The extra food will be enough to balance out the lesser foor of the mined plain. Upon growth we'll work the silks forest to get the critical extra shields.

It looks like we have a little while to go on the factory though, as we'll need to chop the forest to get irrigation to the game. Perhaps after the settler we could toss in a quick temple aided by the chop. If we grow too large in that time, we can trim ourselves down to size five with a worker or two.

By the way, I like the preliminary looks of the RCP. I think spot two should be a priority to get that wheat in use.

Thanks for the quick updates! The close up map looks good, and so does the city placement. There are a lot of BG's around, which is really nice. I'm leaning towards Site1 first, to get the Luxury and the easy irrigation of the Games space. Site 2 and its Wheat next for sure.

Kaiser_Berger: we can get a 4 turn Settler Factory going without mining any of the plains spaces. In the set up, we have 6 food in the bin and start at Size 4, and we always use the Capital Space, 2 BG's and the IrrWheat, for 5 Shields, and +4 Food
Turn 1: base + IrrPlns gives 6 Shields +2 on Growth: 8 Shields total
Turn 2: base + IrrGames, Irrplns gives 6 Shields, 6 Food: 14 Shields total
Turn 3: base + 2 Irrplns gives 7 Shields, +2 on Growth: 23 Shields total
Turn 4: base + IrrGames, 2 IrrPlns gives 7 Shields, 6 Food: 30 Shields total

This requires a citizen to be moved every turn, but no Shields are wasted, and every other turn an adjacent city (site #1 for instance) can use the +2 food from the Irrigated Games. This also assumes that an adjoining Forest, or mined Hill, always gets picked up upon Growth; if this isn't the case, we can certainly do 2 turns at size5 and 2 at size6 to make up the slack.

@civ_steve- Ahhh, very true. I often get stuck in the just +5 food mindset. For some reason I often forget about alternating between +6 and +4.

Finally got a chance to review the save. We still have 12 turns to learn Mysticism at minimum, and the Mongols already have it! The Chinese don't, yet. Assuming they don't get it in the meantime, I think the thing to do is immediately trade it to China for Bronze-Working (via "Show Me the Big Picture'). We might get a few more contacts, also, which might open up other trading possibilities.

After that, should we head towards Iron-Working? Or maybe Polytheism, aiming for a big trading round. In general I'm not a big fan of doing minimum research; I find that being first, or second, to learn a Tech gets me far more money then I usually save by doing minimum research.

Our Capital will currently grow in 4 turns. If we leave things as are for 2 turns, then shift the Citizen from the Silks to the Game, we will grow in 3, getting the same Shields upon growth to size5.

I think the Plains space 3 moves directly East of Entremont will allow us to see the Red city across the Strait, allowing contact. If not immediately, then by being adjacent to Red culture, we'll get the contact on the following turn.

We haven't heard from Keith yet. He's up next and then me. Should we give him another day or so to respond. Normally we do 24 hours to post a got-it, and 48 to play and save, but we are just starting out (and we've been out of this for a long time! We finished SGOTM5 fast, which was good for me considering my RL requirements during the Christmas holidays.) Maybe if we don't hear from him today, I'll should take it.

Any other comments? Suggestions? Mathilda: you're being very quiet! :)

Mathilda: you're being very quiet! :)
:lol: That's good is it steve ;)
I've got some RL issues that are destracting me atm, so I apologize for not being as active as before. I will try to be fair and ask to be skipped if it looks like I can't devote full attention to this, but I would still like to play.
I tell you what, check your PMs.

Only comment I've got atm is I'm concerned about the lack of military around the capital. mad-bax has set the barbs to raging, I wouldn't like to lose our first settler to a barb.

Noted.

We do have 5 sites indicated. Could place a Worker so it can see if anything is coming to harm our Settler. If so, go to one of the other sites.

Our next city should be able to help our Military situation out. :) Probably want a Barracks pretty soon, too.

Just checking in. I have been busy the last few days and am surprised it is my turn already. I will download later tonight and hopefully get a turn set done. Keith

Good to see you've posted, Keith! A general reminder - MailMan has set up a potentially very fast schedule. Once we figure out our direction and how to get there, look out! So please check in at least once daily.

I use to get email reminders that a new post had happened, but this time nothing. I was kind of wondering why things were so slow in getting started. I was at work until 10:30 last night and just got home tonight 8 PM central. I am a little brain dead right now and don't know how well I can do tonight. Could civ_steve do my turn tonight and I pick up his tomorrow evening? I should be home by 5 PM and ready to go.

Greetings from your friendly team figurehead ! I have been busier than a one-armed wallpaper hanger recently and have not had much time to think about this, but here's my opinion anyway.

As CS says, I think we need to up our research rate for a while for trade potential. At least until we can pick up IW (for swords) & Lit (for Libraries). We should also start temples early in our non-settler/worker producing cities. It all adds up in the end.

Otherwise aggressive settling and worker building is the order of the day, with some warriors built to upgrade to those cool Celtish swords-on-steroids. They will need roads to go and more quickly "visit" those cities our neighbours are kindly building for our future use.

Oh yes - the RCP plan looks good and I'm glad our team expert analysts have already done an excellent strategy for us. Looks good, KB and CS. Well that's enough rambling for now, back to my studies.

Regarding the research situation:
I am also not too happy with 40 turns research, but I did not tought it worse throwing the previous used 20(18) turns to change research. moreever, I do I think it is worth changing it now after 10 turns more.

I think we should buy/trade BW in the end of the 12 turns and set study to IW full speed.
The other option is to target Lit. (which will help us in the race to TGL)
Beside those two techs there is not much else that I consider learning up to education.

I like the idea of going for literature, we do want culture buildings asap.
I think the IW and major fighting can wait till the AI has had a chance to prepare the place for us a bit.

Reminder: I'm going to be away for the weekend, next time I've got any chance to play is Monday night.

Well I obviously didn't see Keith's email last night. So if you play tonight (Thursday in the US), I'll pick it up and play either later, or early tomorrow. That gives Peanut the weekend, and Mathilda on Monday, I believe.

It looks like we finish the minimum research of Mysticism (12 more turns, so it will be in my turnset), get Bronze-Working somehow, and start off on Iron-Working. A benefit of doing non-minimum research on a Tech is even if someone else beats you to it (or more than one), you have trade value in your existing research to reduce the cost to you; you don't get that with minimum research, so in that case you have to decide whether to continue until you learn it, trade at full cost to you, or drop it and start on something else.

Lit is eventually desired, but it's at least 3 Techs away by research; hopefully we will have some trades to start in that direction soon.

Good luck, Keith!

Turn 0: 2550 BC
The two workers on the game road. Move one warrior to explore.

Turn 1: 2510 BC
IBT China gets wheel. The far east warrior sees yellow boarders. Workers move to silks.

Turn 2: 2430 BC
IBT nothing. Workers start roading silks. The yellow is the Mongols homeland.

Turn 3: 2390 BC
IBT nothing. Entremont produces settler, on its way to site one. Move one citizen to game and start warrior. This will give us a warrior in three and growth in two turns, rather than a warrior and growth in three. Luxury down to 20%.

Turn 4: 2350 BC
IBT nothing. More exploring.

Turn 5: 2310 BC
IBT barb moves next to our settler, silks connected. Mohács founded and starts warrior. Workers start irrigating game.

Turn 6: 2270 BC
IBT a Mongol warrior kindly kills the barb for us. Entremont completes warrior and starts a settler.

Turn 7 2230 BC
IBT nothing. Workers move to BG south of Mohács.

Turn 8 2190 BC
IBT nothing. Workers work (imagine that!). One roads and the other mines.

Turn 9: 2150 BC
IBT writing must have been learned, we now have contact with India and Carthage. They have the same techs as the Mongols. Communications with Japan and Iroquois is available. I will let Civ_Steve handle the trading. China still does not have Mysticism. I am tempted to trade for it, but seeing that we only have two turns left at minimum. I will gamble that we still might be able to trade it to China soon. Move new citizen off forest to grass. We don’t need the shields to complete the settler.

Turn 10: 2110 BC
IBT nothing new. Entremont completes settler and starts another. Mohács completes a warrior starts another. Luxury can go down to 10%, but will have to go back up next turn. I move the newly created settler directly N. This will give Civ_steve the option to settling site 2 or 3.

After Action Report:
I think we should play aggressively with Entremont’s settler factory. The AI does a good job of hunting down barbs. I just about had to micromanage Entermont every turn, so keep a close eye on things. Good luck!

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_BC2110_01.SAV

Got it, will play tomorrow. I think the gamble is worthwhile (waiting for Myst.)

Turn Log:

Turn 0, 2110 BC
Status Check: Know Mongols, Indians, Carthage and Chinese; Mon, Car and Ind are 5 Techs up (BrW, Mas, Wheel, Alpha and Myst); China is 3 up (BrW, Mas and Wheel); 1 turn to Myst means we will learn it and be able to form some sort of trade with China; Workers are improving land adjacent to Mohacs; I'll let them finish before sending them off to complete improvements needed for Entremont's 4-turn Settler Factory; Terrain Scouted so far appears odd (hand generated map, so make no assumptions) We're off!

Turn 1, 2070 BC
We learn Myst and go to SMTBP; China will give BrW and some Gold for Myst (Good!); don't do that yet; go to Mongols, they want 60 Gold for Comm with Iroq, 110 for Comm with Japan; Japan sounds more advanced so we probably wouldn't have any trade opportunities with them, but the Iroqouis might be someone we can trade with; Also, will sell us Alpha for 1 gpt and 129 Gold; Similar deals from the others, but India will Sell Alpha for just 129 Gold; We make this trade with Gandhi:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_bc2070Trade.JPG

Iroq have 100 Gold, and just BrW and the Wheel (We match in Alphabet); BTW, India, Carthage and Mongols have Writing also; Back to China, We make this trade:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_bc2070Trade2.JPG

Finally back to Iroq, pick up the last Tech we can get with this trade:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_bc2070Trade3.JPG

Check on the Others, dang! They also know IronWorking and HorseBackRiding already! Slight change in plans; I'd rather have a Tech that I can trade, so let's start on Math at 80% (30 turns, which should drop, but our treasury is at a slight negative); we'll try to be first (or second) to learn it and trade for the others.

Entremont is Size5; set Lux to 20%
Warriors Scout, Settler to Hill to Scout Site2 - looks clear
Worker finishes Road on BG adj to Mohacs, adds his Pick to other Worker - Mine in 2
Give Games to Mohacs (grow in 2); Entremont is at +3 food and 7 Shields

Turn 2, 2030 BC
Scouting; Settler at Site2

Turn 3, 1990 BC
Mohacs is size2; Set Entremont to +4 food, grow in 1
Far West Scout sees Carth Warr
Lugdunum Founded at Site 2, begins on Worker
Workers off to Round and Irrigate Plains Spaces, move to Entremont

Turn 4, 1950 BC
Entremont is size6, add MP from Mohacs to keep Luxuries at 20%
Workers move North 1 from Entremont
Far West Scout sees a Chinese Warrior (way over here)
BTW, China and Iroqouis have IronWorking now

Turn 5, 1910 BC
Entremont fin Settler, beg Settler; MM for Growth in 1
Mohacs fin Warr, beg Barracks (time for Vets!)
Send one of Entremont's MPs East, see a Worker across the strait, and contact Japan! (Another reason not to pay the Mongols 110 Gold to make contact!) They have IronWorking as Well, but not Writing nor HorsebackRiding; Interesting - they list DELHI as one of their cities!
Settler off to Site3
Workers move to Plains spaces N-NE and N-NW of Entremont

Turn 6, 1870 BC
MM Entremont and Mohacs (give Game to Mohacs)

Turn 7, 1830 BC
MM Game back to Entremont
Camulodunum founded 3 NE of Entremont, beg Worker
Iroq and Japan have Writing now, as well; both are missing Comm with China; there's a trading opportunity here - Comm w China, 65 Gold and 5 gpt to Iroq for Writing, and possibly Writing for IronWorking from China, but my feeling is that Math will get those and more once we learn it; If we had a stack of Warriors ready to upgrade, I'd go for it, but that's not the case!

Turn 8, 1790 BC
Entremont is size6, Lux to 20%
MM Game to Mohacs

Turn 9, 1750 BC
MM Game back to Entremont, grow in 1

Turn 10, 1725 BC
Entremont Grows and finishes Settler (Size 5, Lux to 10%)
Settler heading South 2 Spaces to next Site

End of Turnlog

Here is a screenshot of our small empire:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_bc1725Main.JPG

So we learn Math in 8 (probably more like 6 once we found our new town), are down IronWrk, Writing and HorsebackRiding. Mohacs is about to complete a Barracks, and can then start generating Vet Warriors. With all the BG's near the next city (2 spaces S of Entremont), I'd recommend that city to build a Barracks first and then build Vet Warriors also. Keep an eye on Math; if the number of turns suddenly drops, someone else has learned it and we need to trade for it right away to do other trades (before it gets all traded around.) Once we get Math, I'd trade for Writing first and see what other Techs the Mongols, Indians and Carthaginians might know; perhaps we can pick up a Tech or two beyond Writing, and still come back for Iron-Working from China afterwords. There's also some Gold floating around; we should be able to pick all of it up, (for upgrades) assuming we learn Math first.

Here's a picture of Entremont:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_bc1725Entre.JPG

The Workers will finish irrigating the Plains space at the end of this turn, so Entremont will actually get 3 Food next turn; they should Irrigate the adjacent Plains next. I recommend we do this layout of citizens for 2 turns (getting us to 6 Food in bin, and 16 Shields), then switch the citizen in the Forest to one of the River Grassland spaces; this will get us +4 food and growth, so we'll still get 8 shields when the new citizen works the forest space we just left. Finally, on the 4th turn, move the new citizen in the Forest to the Wheat (taking it from Camulodunum) getting us +6 Food and enough Shields to finish the Settler. This will be our first 4 turn Settler, and we're set up to keep the 4-turn Settler Factory going as I laid out earlier.

Entremont needs 10% Luxuries at Size5 and 20% at Size6; getting another Luxury connected would be nice, but not necessary. At this point Entremont should be sharing one of the Game or Wheat with another city 2 turns out of 4. We can squeeze a 6th city into our 3 ring at the space 2 moves North of Entremont. We should start planning our next ring (5, 6 or other?)

OK, Peanut; here's the save and your up!

1725 BC Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_BC1725_01.SAV)

Nice trading, I'd say we're off to a pretty good start here. Provided we have iron nearby, we should really be able to steamroll the AI without much difficulty.

Looks good CS (as usual). Fasten your seatbelts, folks. The figurehead has the wheel so there's no telling where we will end up ! Stay tuned ...

@civ_steve: The position of the 3rd city is off by one square comparing to my suggested city location.
My thought for the 3rd city were:
1. allow sharing of wheat with city #2
2. allow 5 cities in the RCP.

Why did you change location?

You're right. At the time, I didn't have your map in front of me, and I thought I was using Site #3. It seemed the strongest to me looking at the map as I was moving the Settler. However:

Your site #3 does NOT share the Wheat with city #2 (the tiles 2 moves out diagonally from the city center are not available to the city)

And this site actually allows a 6th city in the first ring. (The tile 2 moves directly north of Entremont. This 6th city WILL be able to share the Wheat with city #2.)

Besides, it's also on the coast. It looks like we might need some naval forces, and this gives us a 2nd city on the coast.

I should have reexamine my previous post before making a joke out of myself.

6 cities is VERY crowded for RCP 3, but it is probably the right configuration for 100K.

For the next steps I suggest the following:
Capital: settler factory till the end.
city #2,#5 and all the rest: army production, worker here and there to reduce size.
Cities #3,#4. worker factories. I suggest the we let them grow to size 3/4 before that to allow them to contribute commerce (and probably produce workers faster).

Culture can wait.

Sorry it took so long folks - a family engagement on Sunday went for longer than I expected. Anyway - here it is. A slow and steady round, tinged with a sense of sadness at those $#^&*(#$%@$ AI who swap techs among themselves faster than fleas shared between a pack of stray dogs. Read on ...

Pre-turn : The empire looks in great shape. A settler keen to set up camp, and the Entremont citizens ferociously breeding and working a complex choreography out in the fields to get this 4-turn settler trick running. Let's see if Peanut can get the hang of it. We are moderately ignorant and we have racked up a glorious 78 points of culture - only 99,922 to go. But still early days yet, eh ? Seatbelt fastened, crash helmet secure, here we go ...

IBT : Warriors and barbs wandering about in distant lands. Nothing of interest.

1700BC : Mohacs finishes barracks and starts warrior, working forest gives a warrior every 2 turns but no growth. We will come back & improve Mohacs later. Irrigation started on plains, and we move to road another grass tile around Entremont. Lugdunum starts a barracks. Settler searches for a huge red 5 on the ground but cannot see it for the trees. Exploring warriors explore some more. Nothing exciting.

IBT : Mongols shooting arrows into the shadow - probably barbarian target practice.

1675BC : A warrior spies a strange barbarian wooden thing in the water with oars - some smarty-pants AI has Mapmaking it seems. Now who is it ? Richborough settled on the forest south of Entremont, and yes - it shaves one turn off our research. A barracks to start with please. Juggle Entremont citizens. Some more lux please.

IBT : Nothing of interest.

1650BC : Juggle Entremont citizens again. Warriors wandering some more.

IBT : More AI troop meandering about. What do they do it for ?

1625BC : Our next settler done. He heads north for the "gap" city spot between Lug and Camu. A warrior "trips" over the road from Carthage to Utica through the wilderness, accidently ripping it up. Oh dear how clumsy of him.

IBT : More wandering around. No big deal.

1600BC : Not much to report. We are improving things around Lugdunum.

IBT : Nothing much.

1575BC : Verulamium settled between Lug & Camu. Barracks please. Lux up again.

IBT : Nothing much again.

1550BC : Maths in one. Nobody we know has it yet.

IBT : More aimless wandering about by AI.

1525BC : Another settler, heading for position 4 (across the strait from the Japanese). We have Maths, and how's this for charming ... everybody has it now ! Including the French, Vikings and English and Americans who have suddenly appeared. Poop. We start on Currency.

IBT : Nothing interesting.

1500BC : Burdigala settled. What a lovely name for a seaside resort, overlooking distant cows. Our exploring warriors keep exploring but have a pretty dull time of it.

IBT : Dull, dull, dull.

1475BC : Lux up. Settler in 2. Workers improving those bonus grasses around the empire.

Summary and Gratuitous advice : Slow but steady, but what a shame about the maths gamble. It would have worked too I think. Anyway, we have a 4-turn settler factory in Entremont and a 2-turn vet warrior factory in Mohacs. Everyone else is building barracks. We need to think about our second ring soon - and maybe sending a settler down to those icy dyes in the south.

Over to you Madame Captain Mathilda !

The 1475BC save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_BC1475_01.SAV)

Mathilda, If you haven't downloaded and played yet, please hold up a minute or two.

Peanut: one question regarding the Math research - I just wanted to be sure that when you got the pop-up saying you'd researched math, that you went to "Show Me The Big Picture" immediately before continuing on? If you didn't, it's important to stress that immediately upon learning a new Tech, the cost drops for all the AI who know you; SMTBP is the only way you'll get to trade a Tech that the AI is about to learn because you just learned it.

Regarding the 1475 BC Save - I hope you'll forgive me, but I did something that's a bit non-team-playerish to help benefit the team as a whole. I loaded the save, was a bit concerned that we hadn't picked up anything in trade for Math (especially since I started us down that path), and thought we could catch up by trading Maps around. Sure enough, we did. So ... I've uploaded a revised 1475 BC save that occurs after all those trades. We now have all World Maps, 6 new Techs (IrW, Writing and HBackRide, and also MapMaking, Code-of-Laws and Philosophy), contact with Babylon, a bit more gold and sending out 12 more gpt than we're getting. That seems a better position than spending the next 20ish turns or so spending all our commerce to pursue Currency, that may or may not work in the end.

Here is the updated 1475 BC Save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_BC1475_02.SAV)

I don't have specific notes on the exact steps, but I started by trading our TM for pretty much every other civ's TM; often spending some gold, or in a few cases, a gpt or so. We are trading the same terrain information for more and more information about the world this way. Breakthrough occurred when I finally traded our WM to Mongols for their WM (we had to spend some gpt for that deal!). Now our WM was getting Money, WM's usually, and some Techs. When I got Writing, I could see that almost all had Code of Laws, most had Map-Making and a few had Philosophy, so I got Philosophy for WM and some gpt, then used that as a trading item to get the rest. Aside from the gpt we're spending, we got most of the free Gold out there (except for a few, such as the French and Iroqouis). If you are not proficient in trading Maps (and I'm not saying I am or I did the best that was possible), this is a good point to practice.

I really do apologize for stepping in like this. I've seen a few instances of similar occurances in the other threads, so I don't think its outside the general behavior of SGOTM (a more experienced player taking a game action out of sequence), but it's not something I like doing.

I don't personnaly have a problem with that at all. I know how vital some of those early trades can be, so no complaints from me. I'm glad to see us on a much better tech situation.

I haven't got any problem with that steve.
Overall, I'd like some team input about the direction where we are going next, so I won't play just yet.

Culture can wait.
But doesn't the cultural value of buildings increase with time?

Suggestions about further city cites?

Math

But doesn't the cultural value of buildings increase with time?The rational behind the "Culture can wait." statement is that our first priority is to expand teritory to allow more cities faster. more cities will result in more culture later on.

Suggestions about further city cites?I suggest RCP 6. I do not have access to the game right now, but in general we want tight RCP. (3/6/10) or so.

@civ_steve: The trade results are GREAT!! (although the method is not 100% "kosher". Consider a scenario where the trade round was in a halted state before a good result was achived - unless you are 100% sure you are going to post the game after the changes. A better approach is to guide the next player what to do.)

After looking at the sava I have the following comments:

1. Since our settler factory is set up I suggest sending escorted settlers to grab luxeries as our first settling priority.
1a. first to grab the insance from the mongols
1b. second the spices to the north
1c. 3rd dye to the south

2. the map configuration is very strange. I suggest to build 1 harbor soon. We will be able to trade with all civs that way.

3. we need more workers.

4. I suggest sending some wariors as scouts to the mountains to reduce barbarians.

5. we are 1 step up from the buttom of the score table.

6. I suggest setting our research to Lit. and increasing sceince to 60%.
After Lit. we should start building some libraries.

7. Again - nice work civ_steve for the maps and tech.

Thanks, everybody! I don't consider doing this extra trading round exactly "kosher" myself. I was going to describe the series of trades that I thought should be performed. Then I thought, rather than put down the trading sequence in words, to do the trades and explain them after, which led me to the current situation. I think SGOTM should be educational, so I believe the before and after saves act as examples of performing Map trading to catch up; this works pretty well in PTW under the right conditions (lots of AI, most of whom can trade maps), and not so well under C3C where Maps aren't available until Navigation.

Now, I'll add my comments to MailMan's:

1.) Sounds good. We will still need roads to connect these cities, so I wouldn't focus exclusively on grabbing Luxuries.

2.) Yes. I think site4 might be a good city for this; it's kind of limited in size being squeezed between Entremont, Camulodunum and the Japanese. Mohacs and our site5 city are naturals for building Troops. Site2, Site3 and Site6 can focus on Worker builds (might want a Granary at Site2, Lugdunum). Entremont is only building Settlers for a long time; keep the MMing up; Camulodunum can probably benefit from sharing the Wheet more than Mohacs from sharing the Game.

3.) Yes; I suggest Site2, Site3 and Site6 to focus on Workers

4.) Yes, leaving picket lines in place to prevent new Barb camps from forming. We may be only 20 turns or so away from massive Barb uprisings; I'd rather that were a problem for the AI, not us!

5.) We'll have to "extend an invitation" for other civs to congregate at the bottom of the ladder. :D I suggest the Chinese and the Japanese to start - that would eliminate 2 early Medieval UU's from bothering us.

6.) Tough Call. Lit gives us Libraries and possible trades. A minimum on Republic gives us a new government if we want it (in about 530 BC), possible trade, and ability to save Cash for UU upgrades now that we have a close-by source of Iron. We've been researching Currency for 2 turns, but with the 12 gpt outflow we now have, I don't think we're competitive to learn it first. I'm leaning towards the minimum on Republic and get our UU into action.

7.) Thanks again for not getting real upset for my presumptiveness. It wont be a habit!

A minimum on Republic gives us a new government if we want it (in about 530 BC)
I thought we were supposed to only go for communism in this variant.
I'm playing tomorrow night.

:blush: Good catch! These variants are tricky to keep up with; good thing we're on a team.

It still might be worthwhile to research Republic at Minimum from a trading viewpoint and from a build up the treasury viewpoint.

OTOH, if we learn Lit by ourselves, that might have some value. I think a uniquely known Lit is tradeable for any of Curr, Const or Poly if 2 or more know the other Tech. Perhaps we research rapidly until we're maybe 2-3 turns from learning Lit; then we slow it down looking for a trading opportunity (and saving Gold). If 2 or more civs know a couple of the other Techs, we can finish research and hopefully make some trades. If we were to learn it fast and first, we'll be decreasing the time the other AI's need to learn Lit, and increasing the likelihood we wont be able to trade it.

Folks : just a quick response as I am in a rush.

Thanks CS for the lesson on map trading. I had not thought of it and now I will have a try myself for practice.

No, I didn't go straight to SMTBP. I contacted as soon as the turn started after all the pop-ups. I checked status when I was at 1 turn to go and nobody had Maths (and nobody had the extra contacts). At that point we were down IW, Writing & HBR as the next tier techs for us. The next turn, the first when we knew maths, there were all these extra faces on the diplo screen and we were a few more techs behind. I will pull up the autosave and try using the SMTBP option to see if that makes a difference.

CS - I am more than happy for you (or anyone) to constructively criticise and add to my moves and decisions. I feel that a willingness to pick up new skills and tips is a major part of playing in a SGOTM. Keep up the feedback please.

Another course of action other than research may be to get our swords-on-steroids into action soon, before some smartypants scientific AI stumbles into Feudalism and puts pikes into everybody's cities.

Do somebody want to post "got it" message? I think it is Mathilda's turn.
We are off by 1 turn from the standard (currently turn 61) I suggest that the next player will play only 9 turns to set us strait.

Mathilda's got it, and said she'd play tonight.

Peanut: I'm 99% certain that not using SMTBP to get to F4 and trade Math allowed the AI to ride our coattails to Math and trade it out from under us. :( Some people consider it an exploit to use SMTBP, but in a Tech race, the fact that the human plays first in all turn sequences (unit actions, commerce, growth, production), using SMTBP is the only way to benefit from the research. (I do consider this more 'lessons learned' than 'constructive criticism' ;) ; I'm always relearning things!)

Well, if we want to use our "swords-on-steroids" soon, how should we research. If we go minimum on Republic, we store 11 gpt now, which will go up over time; in 20 turns our deals will expire, giving us another 12 gpt. If we go full bore for Literature, hoping to trade for some of the cash that's out there, we could learn it in around 20 turns. So ... minimum on Republic gets us to 250 to 300 gold over 20 turns and enough to upgrade 3, maybe 4, more Warriors to Gallic Swords; try to be first to Lit and trade it for Gold might get us more gold, enough for 5 or 6 upgrades or so. But it's also risky if we are beaten to Lit. We have enough cash to upgrade 1 Warrior now, once Iron is connected; if we start a GA soon, we wont see a great benefit because of all the River spaces we are using, so I'd rather build up a bit before starting the GA.

I'm leaning slightly towards Minimum on Republic, slowly build up treasury and Gallic Warriors. Maybe make an Archer force to take on China, then follow up with GW's later; build towards the Spice to the NW to close the gap. Regarding Pikes: at least there's only 1 Scientific civ, the Babylonians! And there actually slightly behind us, so I think their impact will be minimal.

Thinking about the rings - we're going to be in Despotism until the early Industrial Age at the earliest. I don't think any cities farther away then 6 or so will be anything more than 1 Shield, 1 Commerce cities. So the only question I have is should we form a close distance 5 ring, or slightly expand to a distance 6 ring? Here's a map with potential distance 5 (Red) and distance 6 (Blue) city sites:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_Ring2.JPG

I'm inclined to use the distance 5 city sites (Red). They will suffer a bit less corruption and waste under our Despotic government; because of the mountains to the West, we get the same number of city sites; one more is on a river (although a blue one to the NW can be moved one space SW to be adjacent to a lake); the Ring 6 cities do not allow any more closer cities to be added later.

My suggestion is to build to the NW first; gets us closer to China and lets us claim those Spice.

Whoa! Boy, I'm missing the Forest for the trees! In the save, all the cities are building Barracks!! :eek: We can't possibly support all those Barracks AND upgrade the torrents of units they'd be generating! We need Workers now to develop our territory! Here's my suggestions per city.

Lugdunum should only be building Workers - maybe a Granary first. I'd switch to Granary, or switch to Worker and lose the extra shields.

Burdigala should build a Worker, followed by a Harbor.

Camulodunum should be building only Workers, and Sharing the Wheat with Entremont.

I can see that Entremont is already off the 4 turn Settler plan; that's OK as long as that Wheat is shared (with Cam or Veru) 2 out of every 4 turns, and of course, that Entremont never reaches size 7.

Richborough should finish it's Barracks and join Mohacs as our Armory.

Verulamium is a tough case; it doesn't have as much growth potential as Lug and Cam, although it can share both Wheat. I think I'd give it the Lug Wheat for 3 turns, switch to Worker and build in 3 turns. Eventually it can build a Barracks.

For good, competitive results, we have to be prepared to do lots of MMing. Citizens will need to be rearranged nearly every turn! Right now we need lots more productive squares, so I think we should focus on getting more Workers in the workforce.

The work plans suggested by civ_steve sound good.

I vote for RCP 6. The rational behind it is that only our 2 inner rings will be productive. I want to allow them to grow a bit later on to aid our unit production efforts later on.

all the cities beyond RCP6 should be focused on food only. we will do a lot of pop rushing in those cities. unfortunantly there is not much food in dispo therefore we should try to settle on low food squares (hills, tundra) and work onn the grassland/irr plains.

an army of workers is VERY important.

I'm split on it, but am slightly inclined to lean towards RCP 6 so our first ring can have a little bit more breathing room.

It occurs to me that Veralumium has access to both Wheat. Is it possible to make it a Settler Factory, too?

At size 5 with no food, it would Work mined BG, Irr Wheat, 3 Irr Plains for +4 food, 6 Shields (5 after corruption)
Turn 2 it trades Irr Plns for 2nd Irr Wheat, getting +6 food, 7 Shields after growth (6 after Corruption). 11 shields
Turn 3 it works Mined BG, Irr Wheat, Woods, 3 Irr Plains for +3 Food, 8 shields (7 after corruption) 18 Shields
Turn 4 repeat turn 3, +3 food (6 total stored) and 8(7) Shields; 25 Shields
Turn 5 Swap Woods for either Irr Plains or Mined Grassland, +4 food, Growth and Settler

It doesn't have the Shields to make a 4 turn Settler Factory, but it seems quite possible, one way or another, to make Veralumium a 5 turn Settler Factory. Might not need the BG. Because Lugdunum has access to only 1 Wheat, it can be at best a 6 turn Settler Factory until we reach Communism, which is way too late.

With that in mind, I'd switch Veralumium to Granary. Lugdunum will want a Barracks, since it will have at least 20 Shields to use every time it grows, so it should finish the current Barracks build, then build a Worker. Then Warriors for a While until it makes sense to build a Worker.

This also tips me to wanting a Distance 6 2nd ring; distance 5 would make it very difficult to get the Veralumium Factory going.

turn 0
After having read a lot of excellent advise, change some builds, so that now they are :
Entre : settler (2)
Mohacs: warrior (1)
Lugdu: granary (26)
Camu: Worker (5)
Burdi Harbour (20)
Rich: Barracks (7)

Send 3 warriors from Mohacs on barb hurding duty to the mountains.

Decision about research.
Fully aware that steve who knows a lot better than I do, recommended min on Rep, I decide to do the opposite and go for flat out Lit.
Just can't get exicted about rep, when we can't use it anyway.
And in my (limited) experience AI is more likely to research Rep than Lit.
Ok, it's a gamble, but if it fails, at least we're left with something useful.
So switch research to Lit at 17 turns, losing 11gpt out of 124 in treasury.

ibt
negotiations with barbs in far off lands
mohacs warrior -> warrior

turn 1
nothing really

ibt
Chinese are building pyramids

turn 2
send escorted settler to blue spot three from Lugdu toward the spices.
Steve seems to have robbed the bank, nobody's got anything left to trade.

ibt
men with axes in stupid coloured clothes sneaking in the same mountain range as us.
Mohacs warrior -> another

turn 3
just some road and mine

ibt
you know... pink, yellow,

turn 4
pick up 25 gold from barb camp


ibt
Chinese want to trade maps, we let them as long we get WM for TM. They haven't got any money.

We get first expansion to palace :)

turn 5
I'm just trying to keep track of this micro management, there isn't actually anything Happening.



ibt
English building Oracle.
There seems to be too many pink dresses around for the season...

turn 6
Cathium founded (their suggestion was too long)

ibt
Babylon gets Oracle.

turn 7
barb camp hunting south of empire, there were some spotted but the pinks fought them off.
Lets see who get to collect the price.

ibt
same old


turn 8
lots of things getting into place for next turn.

Looks like I missed a turn somewhere, I've counted eight, but I must have played 9 because it's 1250bc.
So not a lot.
We're getting litterature in 4 turns.
There's a settler in place near Lugdnum
There's a Chinese settler near them spices.
We've got a warrior heading for barb camp south of the Celtic lands.
Two workers ready to connect the iron.



Over to you Kaiser. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_BC1250_01.SAV)

Succinct but full of colour, Mathilda. A good writeup. Hopefully we can cash in Lit soon.

RCP 6 for ring 2 seems good too.

Looking good so far. I've got it, but won't be playing until tomorrow sometime, so feel free to chim in any suggestions prior to that.

I've looked at the Save and have some concerns.

First, and most important, Entremont is about to go completely off its 4-turn Settler cycle!! It's size 5, growing at 1 food per turn, so 10 turns to grow, and about to build a Settler. It's not using either the Game nor the Wheat. This is a disaster!

Second, I don't understand why Lugdunum's 3rd citizen is a Tax collector. IMO, it should be working the BG on the river.

Third, we have 9 cities and only 5 Workers, 2 of which are on a mountain about to start connecting the Iron. At this stage we should have roughly 1 worker per city, maybe more. We have tons of improvements to do; Richborough needs its BG's mined and roaded, the Plains spaces near Cam and Ver need to be roaded and irrigated. Having 2 cities build Granaries will help eventually, but in this short term, we are way under in workers.

Fourth, the iron itself. If the Literature research works, we should be able to pick up some Gold, enough to do some Upgrades. I don't see a stack of Warriors in our cities with Barracks, ready to be upgraded! Since this is our only currently available source of Iron, we have to be ready to connect it, do upgrades, maybe set Mohacs and Richborough to building a GW each, then disconnect it, all in the same turn. If it were to run out (which can only happen if it's connected to one of our cities), we'd be really hurting.

And, FYI, the only new Tech I saw out there is Polytheism, which only the Japanese know. With a little luck, there'll be a couple Techs to trade for when we learn Lit.

First, and most important, Entremont is about to go completely off its 4-turn Settler cycle!! It's size 5, growing at 1 food per turn, so 10 turns to grow, and about to build a Settler. It's not using either the Game nor the Wheat. This is a disaster!
Calm down steve, it's not a disaster. It's been producing settlers the whole time, them wheat and game squares been swapped between cities every turn, sorry it was left in a bad way.

Second, I don't understand why Lugdunum's 3rd citizen is a Tax collector. IMO, it should be working the BG on the river.
It was to prevent a riot at the time, it was the only city that had trouble, it seemed more efficient than raising the tax (and cutting research). It's well possible that I forgot to change it back.

Third, we have 9 cities and only 5 Workers, 2 of which are on a mountain about to start connecting the Iron. At this stage we should have roughly 1 worker per city, maybe more.
I did pretty much follow your suggestions about the builds, no need to rip my head about it now.

Fourth, the iron itself. If the Literature research works, we should be able to pick up some Gold, enough to do some Upgrades. I don't see a stack of Warriors in our cities with Barracks, ready to be upgraded!
They are not far. They on the mountains keep an eye out. They can get back quick enough.
edit: how many did you say we could afford to upgrade in one go?

Good luck Kaiser!

1.) Entremont is one full growth below where it should be. On this turn we should be at size 6, Settler in 1, putting 6 food in the bin. Instead we're at size 5, Settler in 1, putting 1 food in the bin. At best, we will delay this Settler 1 turn (gaining back both Game and Wheat, and making Settler in 2), and the next 1 turn, before we can get back to 4 turn Settlers. The point I'm making is not to make Settlers all the time - that's a given, but to make them all the time as efficiently as possible. We are going for 100K cultural win, which requires a lot of cities! (Probably over 200)

2.) It doesn't riot now. If you took a temporary action to resolve a temporary problem, it's not a good practice to leave it to the next player to undo the action. Other than checking, how would Kaiser know about the Taxman? I saw no note of it in your turnlog.

3.) In 1725 BC, we had 2 Workers, and 2 more on the way. In 1475 BC, we had 4 workers with none on the way; I suggested building 3 more immediately. With the current save we have 5 Workers with one more on the way, so 1 was built and another ordered. The last two players have built a total of ONE Worker, and ordered a 2nd! In 19 turns. This is a critical shortfall!! This has been pointed out in discussion by me and others before each turn set, yet not really acted on, and with no discussion as to why certain other builds were chosen.

4.) My comment is more about the strategic aspects of connecting Iron. Since it can run out, it is very important NOT to connect it unless you have a plan to use it. I didn't see the plan, and suggested how it should be used, and pointed out that it should be disconnected immediately after.

The upgrades cost 80 gold each. If I've counted correctly, there's a total of 590 Gold spread out among the AI (most of it in France's hands.) So the most we will get to upgrade is 7, maybe 8 if the gold increases.

Mathilda - I'm not trying to rip your head off. I'm mostly very confused. A plan was put in place to use Entremont as a 4-turn Settler factory, specific worker Actions were performed to execute that plan, forests chopped, BG's mined, plains irrigated, roads put in place, and the exact, specific sequence of Citizen shufflings documented to execute this 4-turn Settler factory, with some discussion of the options available that could be done and still maintain the 4-turn Factory. I see you (and Peanut) haven't executed this plan, and I see no discussion as to why. I agree that micro-managing is tedious, time consuming and quite prone to error; however, in the SG format where only 10 turns are played at a time, I would hope this would be a good venue to fully understand the power of MMing with a serious attempt to implement an admittedly fairly complicated sequence.

I'm also concerned that a certain feeling of auto-play is entering our game. That some actions are being performed automatically without any reflection or planning. I have to emphasize that this needs to be avoided; we have discussion, there are general and specific plans in play, and any questions regarding moving forward should be brought forward. Before you start a unit on an action, be sure of your plan for that action and that unit. Before you press 'Enter' and end your turn, be sure there isn't something you shouldn't check or change. Are there citizens to rearrange? Does the AI have something to trade? Every turn lost or wasted at this stage of the game echoes through the rest of the game. SGOTM3 was won by 1 turn; SGOTM4 had 3 teams with 5 turns of each other at the end; SGOTM5 hasn't closed, but the top teams are within 10 turns of each other. I'm not saying we're going to win, but we should play to win, and certainly put our best effort forward.

I agree with CS completely here, we really need to pay attention to details and follow the plans that have been set out. In my last two SGOTM attempts with Team Tone, we had a pretty good cast of individual players, but that cast never ended up being a real team and the results show it. In 4 we nearly got the wooden spoon, and in 5 we are certain to get the spoon, if we even manage to win. We have the opportunity to do much better, and it only requires a bit more time and effort.

Preturn- Do a lot of changing around of things. First mm Entremont so that it work both game and wheat, getting settler and growth in 2. It can switch off the game or wheat next turn, I think. Kill the taxman in Lugdunum. Queue up a worker in Mohacs as it is stuck at size 3 for the moment. Change the archers to temples, we have no real need for archers, would rather get some early culture, then let them pump some warriors.

And good lord, we're killing our treasury with deficit research. I drop the research time by two turns to bring us back to even. If an AI makes a demand of all our gold and we have to cave, we'd lose a building or unit. Plus we need every gold we can get for upgrades.

IT- zzz

T1 1225

Lapurdum founded. Set it to worker.

Swap the wheat from Entremont to Camulodunum.

Chinese have poached the spices site.

IT- Entremont-settler-???

T2 1200

I decide to have Entremont produce a warrior while it grows back to size five.

We whack a barb camp and get 25g towards the Gallic Sword fund.

IT- French start Great Wall. French complete Pyramids.

T3 1175

Nothing much new. Swap the wheat back to Camul.

IT- Entremont-warrior-settler

Rich-temple-worker

French complete Colossus. Looks like we're not the only ones with a despotic GA :lol:

T4 1150

Due some minor mm with Lug and Veru, set Entre back up for settler factory. Reduce our lit research all the way to 10% and get 20gpt.

IT- We learn lit, start on currency at min.

Lug-granary-worker

Crap, a few civs start Great Library. Was hoping to hold out on lit, but many still don't know it, so deals will be available.

T5 1125

Swap the wheat.

Well, lit can't get us any techs at a reasonable price, so I'll sell it just for gold and we can pound out the techs later.

I get a paltry 170g total from the civs that don't have it. Well, that is two extra GS. Better than nothing.

IT- zzz

T6 1100

Ratae C-something is founded. Set it to worker. Work on Entremont, settler and growth in 2.

IT- We get the FP message.

T7 1075

Not much this turn. Am starting to shift some of our cities towards military build up.

IT- We complete a settler.

T8 1050

Reload Entre for another settler. Send settler south.

IT- Nothing much

T9 1025

Whack a barb camp for a donation to the GS fund. Swap wheat.

IT- zzz

T10 1000

MM Entre, it is now perfectly back on Steve's settler cycle.


Summary

Our settler can found where it stands. I built a few more warriors, and more importantly got our settler factory back online. We still have lots of places to settle, but we should also be looking forward to a war against China in the near future. We are up to 411g at +20gpt.

And a screenie....

I got it.
I will play in about 10-12 hours. please suggest action items.

CS - re the Maths trading episode. I pulled up an autosave and tried trading via the SMTBP option. Very interesting. No extra contacts had been made and nobody else had maths. Thanks for pointing it out to me - I will go and correct my (deficient) understanding of how the game engine runs its turn cycle. It must do a more complex multi-pass process than I had expected to account for what I saw.

Re MM Entremont. Yes I am still learning the finer points of citizen swapping and understanding the timings for when swaps take effect, when the food/shield bins are cleared, when population is increased and when production completes. I thought I had Entremont running properly as a sustainable 4-turn factory - each time it hit pop 6 just when the settler emerged, pulling it back to 4. I will reread and practice again using your recommended steps to make sure I didn't foul it up.

Lots of homework for Peanut this weekend.

Kaiser - I've got to ask you, why were you holding onto Literature? We have no intention of building Great Library, and if we tried we'd get beaten to it by a mile! There's only two reasons to research Lit at all: 1.) we can now build libraries, and 2.) we can trade it for Gold and maybe a Tech or two. As I've gone over with the Math deal on Peanut's turn, at Emperor level you can be 99.99% sure that as soon as you learn Lit, one or more of the AI will right after (because the cost to research a Tech drops immediately after someone learns it), and they will trade it! The only way to get full value for it is to immediately go to SMTBP, enter F4, and see what's available; IMO doing so would likely have gained us Poly (if someone other than Japan knew it too) also, and about 200 - 300 more gold. These are critical decisions.

Entremont has been left to riot if Mailman doesn't do something; I'd suggest increasing Luxuries to 20%. If Entremont uses both Game and Wheat this turn, then lets another city use one of them while it uses an Irr Plains, or a Grassland, it should complete a Settler as it grows to 7.

Re: Entremont building a Warrior - with no Barracks, I'd rather see Entremont do 5 turn Settlers, focusing on pop growth until it was back to 4-turn status. We have enough barracks around that we don't need to build a Reg Warrior.

One of the Spice spaces is still available. We can found a city on the hill (slightly better) or Coastal plains adjacent to the space to claim it.

Even at 10% we are still using 3 commerce for Science. We should use a citizen of a remote city as a Scientist to drop Science to 0%, and claim 2 more gpt. Cathium will fit the bill for now; after the Spice city is built, I'd use it's only citizen for this and put Cathium's back into the field.

Verulamium is still the best city to form a 2nd Settler Factory (5-turn), but it will need a large population and more space. I'd suggest changing it's Barracks build to Temple, building it with Shields (no pop-rush), and giving it the Wheat next to Lugdunum.

Our net loss of 12 gpt is about to expire, which will put is in the 32 gpt range, or 3 upgrades every 8 turns. Getting to be about time to connect the Iron, with a Warrior there to disconnect after upgrade. BTW, since Cathium has a Barracks, it is the logical place to accumulate Vet Warriors for Upgrade.

Kaiser - Kudos on the increase of Workers. We're now up to 10 with 3 more on the way!

Yes, I realize the lit debacle was some rather pungent :smoke: on my part. As soon as it happened I grimaced over my faulty action. Nontheless, I think we will be alright as it is easy to pound AA techs with some well planned warfare. Works wonders on Deity, so should work just as well here.

I can understand the dismay about Entremont building a reg warrior, however I had the mindset of getting the 4-turn cycle going again, and it was going to either be two turns of wealth or 2 turns producing a reg warrior. I certainly wouldn't advocate spending any precious gold to upgrade it unless we've already done all the veterans. If nothing else, we are going to need some MP in our larger cities, so if nothing else it will help keep a citizen content.

And I was more than happy to build more workers. We were really short, and it was hurting. I typically build a worker first in new cities as to make sure I have a decent amount.

The SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_BC0750_01.SAV)
Turn log.

PreTurn:
set lux to 20% to avoid riot in the capital
Decided to replace the regular warriors with the veteran one as scouts/police.
Set veteran warroirs to cathium
MM lugdunum to grow in 1 and to produce settler in 5.
Set Verulamium to build temple.
Set scientist at cathium and reduce sciense slider to 0% (+3gpt)
MM wheat from capital to Verulamium
Set Camuldunum and Lapurdum to build temple. will pop rush next turn.
traded world maps for around 207g (currently we have enough to upgrade 8 warriors.)
Poly can be bought for 280g


1000BC status:
10 cities, 23 pop
Knows all AI civs. 5 techs left in AA (3 required).
1 settler, 9 workers, 17 warriors, 1 archer, 1 eqWorker.
3 granaries, 3 barracks, 1 temple.
150 culture.
618g

only 10 cities with 4 turn settler factory in 1000BC is very lame.

IBT - mongols want maps and 48g I cave in.

1. 975BC
MM Entremont to grow in 1 and to produce settler on the same turn.
changed Ratae to build temple.
found tolosa. set production to temple.
rush temple in Camuldunum and Lapurdum
gpt deals ended now earning 30gpt.

IBT
Barbs upraise near Lapurdum. the AI (france) advanced an age.
China start TGL.

2. 950BC
Entremont: settler --> settler
Camuldunum: Temple --> worker
Burdigala: harbor --> worker (MM to work sea for more commerce)
Lapurdum: Temple --> Barracks
MM Verulamium to grow in 1.
MM Lugdunum to grow in 2 and to produce settler in 2.

IBT: England finish the lighthouse.

3. 925BC
Mohacs: warrior --> warrior
Richboroug: warrior --> warrior
5 more civs join frnce in the new age. (England, Carthage, Jappan, Iroqouis, America)
I think we can buy/trade all the techs for around all our gold, but I rather use the gold for upgrade and get those techs by force.

IBT: all civs swap great wonders.

4. 900BC
Lugdunum: settler --> worker
Verulamium: Temple --> settler

IBT: we lost far away warrior to barbs.

5. 875BC
Richboroug: warrior --> spearman (I do not want to waste 10 shields from chop.)
France also learned republic.
found Lindum. set production to Temple.
MM Entremont to grow in 1 and to produce settler on the same turn.

6. 850BC
Entremont: settler --> settler
Mohacs: warrior --> warrior
Lugdunum: worker --> temple
change Camuldunum to produce barracks.
found Nemausus. set production to temple.
rush temple in Ratae. (there is a barb horse two squares away)

7. 825BC
Ratae: Temple --> Barracks
did another world map trading. got only 53g.
we now have 828g.

IBT: frnace build a giant wall.

8. 800BC
Richboroug: spearman --> warrior

9. 775BC
Mohacs: warrior --> warrior
Cathium: warrior --> warrior
send 6 workers + reg warrioir to the mountain.
found Curovernum. set production to temple.

10 750BC
Entremont: settler --> settler
Verulamium: settler --> settler

Summery:
founded 4 cities. produced 5 settlers.
built 4 temples. finished a harbor.
6 new warriors. 1 died by the hands of barbs.
1 worker and 1 spearman was added.

Notes to next player:
1. The two produced settler have not moved yet this tuen. I suggest 1 should claim another resourse.
2. 14 warrioirs are ready at Cathium. 12 can be upgraded next turn (after getting some small change from maps)
3. barbs are at the gate of Ratae.

I will get it and play tonight or tommorrow morning.

I haven't loaded the file yet. Will we be able to upgrade our Warriors before the Barbs have a chance to pillage us?

OK, I took a quick look at the save. I only see 1 Barb Horseman, and 1 Barb warrior near Ratae Car.. Perhaps the nearby spearman can be shifted over, but his use is only diversionary since the barbs can attack in 2 turns, and it would take longer for reinforcements to arrive.

The 2nd ring is nearly complete. We'll need to start building some Galleys, too.

I'd suggest one Settler go to the NW to claim the Spice, and the 2nd go South for the Dye.

When we attack China (after our upgrades, and remember to disconnect), (nice set up Mailman!) we might want to bypass any size1 cities that haven't culturally expanded; this would give us a chance to pick them up during Peace negotiations.

Good Luck, Keith!

I have so pressing duties this weekend that make it necessary for me to pass, sorry team. On to you Civ-steve.

Sorry to hear that, Keith. Did you want to do a switch?

I've got it.

Just a small note regarding the workers on the iron:
I started roadin on the 10th turn. In order to upgrade the warriors next turn, you should wake 3 of them and commit them to roading again (to avoid waiting another turn).
After the road is complete, the other 3 workers can be moved to someplace else before the road is disconnnected

I wish I had several more turns to start fighting, but I guess that civ_steve will enjoy all the fun.

That's a good detail to know! Don't worry, MailMan; I'm sure you'll get to make some 'deliveries' to some of our neighbors. ;)

I'll play later today.

Turn 0, 750 BC
Send Ver's Settler towards Spice
Send Ent's Settler towards Dye
Switch Cam to Worker (from Barracks); Also Ratae (we need even more!)
Set Lux down to 20%, making a Tax Coll in Lug
Send Spearman from Tolosa towards Ratae (we have an Archer in Rat, vs Barb Horse and Warr)
All Workers on Iron are Roading, 2 turns to complete

Barb horse moves SE

Turn 1, 730 BC
Warrior in Richborough, beg Work (lots of unimproved spaces being worked)
Worker in Cam, beg Galley (starting to think about Japan)
Spearman moves into Forest, confronting Barb Horse
Settlers advance; Spice one is in Cathium, new Warrior accompanies Settler for Dye
MM Wheat back to Entremont; grow in 1; Vera is size 5
Make Scientist in Tolosa; put Cathium's citizen back to work

IBT: Iron is connected
Barb Horseman moves adjacent to Ratae
Japan demands TM and 66 Gold; HA! He declares

Turn 2, 710 BC
Mohacs fin Warr, beg GS
Lapurdum fin Barr, beg GS
Burdigala fin Work, beg Galley
Did a slight misstep; upgraded to GS's during the turn; if I'd done it during the Build phase (using the "arrows" at the top of the city display) the new GS's could have moved out this turn.
Upgrade 12 GS's, 11 in Cathium and 1 in Mohacs
Pillage Iron after moving Workers off
Change GS production back to Warrior
3 Vet Warriors move with Settler onto Spice space
Archer in Ratae finishes Barb Horse
MM Wheat back to Vera, growth in 1 (to size 6)

IBT America wants to sell us his WM; we decline

Turn 3, 690 BC
Lug fin Temple, beg Work; put Tax collector to Work
Ver and Ent are size 6; MM Wheat to Ent grows in 1, Settler in 1
Ver MM Grassland to Forest, +3 Food, Settler in 3
Glanum Founded, on Spice (and grabs other Spice from China!)
Set Lux to 0, no rioting!
11 GS's move up to Glanum (2 moves from Tientsin, a size 2 Chinese city; don't want to give Mao time to pop-rush something there after a DoW)
other one moves to Entremont, in case Japan moves against us
Archer at Ratae finishes off Barb Warrior (no barbs left)

Turn 4, 670 BC
Ent fin Settler, beg Settler
Rich fin Work, beg Work
Split Bonus foods between Ent, Lug and Ver
Settler off to the South to fill in space
Oh Yeah, DoW on Mao
Tientsin falls to first GS (1/4 left); GA is on (+62 gpt)
Warrior captures 2 Chinese Workers
1 GS and 2 Warriors guard Glanum
9 GS's advance to Tientsin
Whoa; with GA, Ver finishes Settler next turn; give it to bonus food and Growth

Turn 5, 650 BC
2 Warriors and a Worker built
Oops; Ver isn't on a river, so doesn't get an extra shield to grow with; Settler next turn
Isca built on Dye, workers building road to connect
9 GS's move on, threatening Nanking and Tatung

IBT China moves Warrior and Horsemen forward to threaten Tientsin

Turn 6, 630 BC
Ver fin Settler, beg Settler
2 Workers and a Warrior are finished
Rear guard does in Chinese Warrior and Horse (no losses, 1/4 and 4/4 GS left)
2 Forward GS's take Nanking (2/4 and 4/4 left), 2 Workers captured and sent back to road
1 GS scouts towards Beijing; road connects up to Shanghai
5 GS's advance towards Xinjian (size1 but has Culture); capture another Worker
Settler from Ver heading North

IBT, everyone else is building the Hanging Gardens
France demands TM and Gold, but backs down when we say no

Turn 7, 610 BC
More Workers and Warriors
Tolosa fin Temple, beg Worker
2 GS's take Xinjian (and 2 Workers), no losses but 1 retreat, and a promotion to Elite (4/5)
1 GS (rear Guard) takes out Horse, promotion (4/5 currently)
Move 5 GS's towards Shanghai, fortify on Road
Dyes are now connected; use Isca for Scientist, and move Tolosa's citizen into the Field
MM Ver for Growth

IBT, China want's peace, but isn't giving up enough yet

Turn 8, 590 BC
Ent fin Settler, beg Settler; Settler heads South
2 more Warriors join the forces
MM Ent for Growth
5 GS's move Adjacent to Shanghai (taking out an Archer along the way)
Segusio founded in frozen South
poprush a Temple at Burdigala

IBT Japanese Galley shows up to North

Turn 9, 570 BC
Temple, 2 Warriors and a Worker fin
MM Ver for Growth
Shanghai taken (2 Spears and 1 Archer), with 2 Promotions, no Losses
5 GS's moved forward to Threaten Beijing
Forces moved to North
2 Vet Warriors die taking out a 2/3 Reg Archer in Hills near Glanum
Workers reconnecting Iron

IBT China attacks Glanum with Warrior, and wins; we still have another Defender

Turn 10, 550 BC
Ver fin Settler, beg Settler
Lindum fin Temp, beg Worker
Beijing Falls (3 Spears and an Archer)
Move 2 more Warriors into Glanum, and a GS into Tientsin

End of Turnlog

So, the War with China is nearly through with its first phase. I checked - China will give us all 3 remaining AA required Techs we are missing, plus Tatung, but not Hangchow and Chinan. So I think Mao needs just a bit more tenderizing. I'm thinking Canton for sure, and probably Chengdu, and if we can get Hangchow and Tatung (maybe Chinan also), that would be a good stopping spot. We might even drop Currency from our demands (since we learn it in 14 at minimum) if doing so gets us the cities we want.

Hangchow has an Archer in it, along with the wounded Elite Warrior, so I'd keep at least 3 units in Glanum, and I was in the process of bringing back the GS near Tientsin as well. Iron is connected next turn, and there will be enough Cash for 7 upgrades; I'd use the Arrows at the top of the page (during the build phase) to upgrade the Warriors in Cathium, then move those GS's to Glanum, move the Warriors in Glanum to Cathium and upgrade with an Upgrade All command, maybe with the newly built warrior in Mohacs.

I've been switching a Wheat back and forth between Veralumium and Entremont; with the GA on I've had to keep these cities growing as fast as possible. Even then the shield production is outstripping growth. In the South I've been building dense cities for eventual Cultural base; the most recent Ver built Settler I was thinking of settling in the middle of our captured Chinese lands to fill that open space in a bit.

We will need some Galleys to take on Japan, so those builds need to be done as it makes sense to do. (Sooner the better). Here's a picture of our new holdings:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_bc550China.JPG

Over to you Peanut! The empire is getting a bit big to run.

550 BC Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_BC0550_01.SAV)

Nice progress CS. Just a bit more "earnest discussion" with Mao and then we will offer the Japanese our views on their impertinence. Personally delivered. On a sharpened steel serving implement. Or so the plan goes ...

@civ_steve: Well, you indeed had some fun with the setup I left you.
If I read the turn log correcly, we genrally had good RNG this turn set.

I think we should take on Japan next while we have our golden age in our favor.

Remember to use pop rushing to get temples in ex-china cities.

Unless I'm mistaken, taking on Japan would mean we have to go a long ways around the bay area. Wouldn't it make more sense to conquer straight through to them?

@Kaiser_Berger: I do not understand what did you meant.
Attacking Japan should be via landing GS on the shores and attack.

My bad, I missed the galley comment by CS. Sounds quite viable now that I think about it more. Chalk it up to analyzing civ too early in the morning :crazyeye:

MailMan - yes, we had very favorable RNG results, although Vet Gallic Swordsman vs Reg Spears don't need too much luck! :D The few times we were in a bad RNG zone, the GS retreated - I don't think we lost any!

Re: Japan - fastest way is by amphib landing, then city attack. We are so close that we could land our forces then go back for more attackers; on the 2nd turn, after we take that Japanese city just SE of Burdigala, our second wave could be dropped off in the newly captured city, and our reinforcements will be ready to move out. BTW, this Japanese city is on Iron, and is at distance 6 from Entremont, so it helps fill in our ring and removes a valuable resource from them.

I think I saw a pop-up that somebody (Japan?) was building Sun-Tzu's. If so, Feudalism is out. Now I believe our GS unit will still be pretty effective vs Reg Pikes, so we should continue to build Warriors and upgrade to GS's in general. I think we should build cities in occupied China and towards the Mongols, while we conquer through Japan and civs beyond. Research will be tough; we can generally do pointy stick research for a while, but we might want to keep an eye on the Great Library and who builds it; if we avoid Education we might be able to set up a Great Library elevator ride to the later MidAges, maybe even into the IndEra! Even then, at some point we will want some development of our core cities (except Entremont and Verulamium which will be building Settlers for a long time!)

A quick poll folks - what should I do with Vercingetorix ? Raise an army ? He emerged from the dust in the conquest of Canton.

With the "interesting" rules for leaders, it seems like that might not be a bad idea, although armies in PTW aren't really any better than 3 seperate units. It could however be useful in bashing in some pikes when we face them. I can't really think of any building worth disbanding him for at this point.

We don't need an army to build HE anymore, but there's really nothing worthwhile to build with him either. I'd really like to get FP, but we can't use the Leader for that. I'd say, build an army out of him (so we can get more leaders) but don't load anything into it yet!!!! We'll transport the empty army over to Japan, load it up there (once we capture a city or build one if we bring a Settler along), and that army will be more useful to us.

Re: Japan invasion, we will need a goodly sized stack of GS's to do this. I'm thinking at least 4-5 Galleys with 8-10 GS's in the first Wave. With an army to transport (and it could come over in Wave 2 after we capture that first Japanese city), I'm leaning towards 5 Galleys, 10 GS's to start.

2 quick responses - not bad! Re: FP; I'm leaning towards using the Japanese territory to form a 2nd core. This will be tough to do under Despotism, but that one Japanese city is in our 2nd ring - it might not be bad to use it to build FP. Just a thought.

Anything beyond 2nd ring is going to be a 1 shield at a time affair. Especially since we'll be exceeding OCN a lot! And in Despotism. That's 200 turns from now, turn 300 in the Game! (OTOH, we'll probably be Communistic by then, so this might not be an issue.)

Thanks. An empty army was what I was thinking. I will let China have peace soon, but just to spice things up the Japanese have invited the Mongols to join the fun. And that's after two turns. Happily, they are a bit underdeveloped. Ok, I will do some housework then play a few more turns.

Just a reminder from the Maintenance thread:

"8. The Mongolian UU is now A/D/M 3/2/2 with zone of control. It costs 50 shields to build, requires horses and horseback riding. It gets no movement bonus on mountains. Unfortunately this change is forced, since it is not possible to implement the movement bonus for the standard Keshik in 1.29f."

Since they'd most likely build them from scratch, there shouldn't be many of these units; but they are powerful and the Mongols might have a few. Don't leave this edge of the empire undefended!

Another qoute from the maintenance thread:

Open Issues List
1. Celtic and Mongol UU is not built by AI in PTW/1.29f(Seen in SGOTM5). Possible resolution to decrease cost from 50g to 40g as C3C.
Edit: The mongols UU is even better than ours due to its zone of control. it a good thing that we do not need to face it (altough I think that CS was right - if the AI would have built them, they whould have been in small numbers only. it also would have start their GA at a bad timing for us).

Good point!

I also misspoke earlier about loading the army. We need a city to convert a Leader into an army, but we don't need a city to load the army with units.

Regarding the poll on what to do with leaders, I wonder if they will be more useful in rushing culture buildings in corrupt cities. for example rushing library (80 shields). when we get Education we can rush uni (160 shields) as well.

After the promising start in the earlier post, Peanut struck again big time. I forgot to save when I had to rush off to collect the kids from school. So I had to pull up the autosave and repeat what I had done to get the Leader generated. In the words of the immortal Homer, "D'oh !!".

Pre-turn : Looks good CS. A real war and a war about to start soon. And a golden age ! Burdigala working plains to get galley sooner. Lindum and Curovernum swapped to galley. Ok - here we go.

IBT : The Hangchow archer tries his luck in Glanum, taking out a warrior. A Horse dies redlining our GS near Beijing. We upgrade the warrior in Mohacs, and three in Cathium (1 fresh built). We save cash for the Glanum two. Nemausus opens its temple and starts a galley.

530BC : We march on Canton. The Hangchow archer is now reminiscing with his honourable ancestors. We assault Hangchow. One warrior left inside.

IBT : The Chinese run for cover. The Japanese invite the Mongols to join the festivities ! The more the merrier !

510BC : We take Canton (with horses - yay!), and Victorinix (or someone like that) emerges and immediately raises an army. He heads for the Japan strait for the next campaign. Three warriors upgraded and iron disconnected. We almost take Tsingtao.

IBT : Carthage completes the Great Library for us. How thoughtful of them.

490BC : Chengdu has two of those invincible spears. Two GS redlined and in retreat. Ah well, a bit optimistic I suppose. As a consolation, we take Tsingtao without loss. We level Hangchow and settle Glevum on the ruins. Axima settled on ice in the south.

IBT : Nothing much.

470BC : Some regrouping. A chinese worker colonises the furs near Shanghai to boost happiness. Anyang captured. We give China peace for Construction, Polytheism, Currency, WM, 54G, Chinan, Shantung and Tatung. This leaves Mao with Chengdu and Macao. Our new cities start warriors.

IBT : Well, well. Five chinese spears just set off south of Chengdu. Why ?

450BC : A few GS move towards Ulaanbaatar to check out the Mongol Hordes. The rest head for the dockside in Burdigala. A few warriors upgraded. We play the disconnect-reconnect game with the iron. A new seaside resort is established at Deva. Everyone is relatively happy, except for the grumpy lady in Tatung !

IBT : The chinese spears march south - for the new chinese city on the Spices I guess.

430BC : We march our GS towards Burdigala and Ulaanbaata. Entremont and Verulamium breed as fast as they can. Japan will give peace as long as we pay 20g. Hahahahahaha. Temujin won't talk and in the diplo screen he looks terminally constipated. Must be all that horse meat jerky he eats.

IBT : The chinese spearman all turned around and headed back. Must have forgotten their lunch or to "go" before they left home or something. A Mongol archer leaves Ulaanbaata heading for (undefended) Chinan. Happily we have 2 GS converging on him and his little home town.

410BC : Move Prima Swordica from his R&R in Canton towards the Mongol archer. Workers busily roading.

IBT : No action from Japan. The Mongols up the ante with a warrior and another archer from Ulaanbaata, but the first one is too scared to advance and waits for his mates. Our warrior sitting on a hill keeping an eye on Carthage easily defeats a Mongol warrior.

390BC : Our two GS capture Ulaanbaata (with a worker), but are now sitting between two archers & a warrior in the north, and a sword & warrior in the (previously darkened) south. Keep it, or Raze it? Hmmm now ... lets Keep. Happily Temujin is off the potty or wherever he was lurking and will negotiate. We have 6 GS ready to sail for Japan, and we don't want a two front war. So we accept peace from him along with 2g for us to buy a celebratory coffee in the Ulaanbaata bazaar. Plus it will irritate Japan if Temujin makes peace. Hahahaha - so peace with the Mongols it is, plus we get to keep Ulaanbaata ! The iron shuffle game continues. Finally the Japan campaign starts - we land 4GS on the Edo cows.

IBT : Japan's response - 2 workers run for cover in Edo ! The Mongol troops leave Ulaanbaata.

370BC : The battle for Edo - it took 4 GS to take out the two spears but no losses. Five more GS land in striking range of Ise.

IBT : A few Carthaginian Numidians appear on the Ulaanbaata border. Curious. No Japanese action.

350BC : We land some more GS in Japan, and start a march on Kyoto. We now have 12 GS landed, and 3 Galleys operating near Burdigala. Japan will concede little for peace as yet.

Summary and Gratuitous advice : Japan probably needs a little more tenderising. The Army is ready to embark in Burdigala. There are 3 settlers on their way to someplace useful (2 in former Chinese lands and one ready to embark on a galley near Rutupiae, in case we want to land a city on the sandbar next door or better yet to checkout that partly hidden land near Xinjian. Perhaps the next wave of GS should think about moving west to visit Hannibal, or maybe we should think about building horses for upgrading to Knights ? Oh yes - 99,362 culture points to go !

Over to you Madame Captain Mathilda !

The 350BC Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_BC0350_01.SAV)

Nice going Peanut.

From looking at the pics (haven't look at the save yet) I suggest the follwing:
1. we do not need more galleys at this point
2. we should rush culture building in corrupt citties as soon as possible
3. I think we can move garrisioned units from the north to the war front

Note that our GA is about to be over in about 4 turns.

Unfortunately I've got no chance of playing for at least a week, so skip please.

Mathilda

Next up is: Kaiser_Berger

B.t.w. in the "Succession GOTM Progress and Results" page there is now new "Team Thread Posts" entry. our team is on the low side of the table (I think that civ_steve and myself are the haviest spammers).

Perhaps we should have some more vivid discussion on our moves (or just benign messages like this)?

I've got, will be a while before I play, so feel free to toss in any extra strategy.

I've been gone a couple of days, but I'm back now. Good Job, Peanut! You really cleaned house with the Chinese! (I would have probably left him with 5-6 cities, but I like your style better; Mao is done!)

The chinese spearman all turned around and headed back. Must have forgotten their lunch or to "go" before they left home or something. "Doh, I forgot to lock the hut! We have to head back. Now!" :lol:

Mathilda: I'm sorry to hear you aren't available to play for the next week, but I REALLY appreciate you letting us know! (And this is too bad cause the next set of turns look to be pretty fun putting the squeeze on Japan! I suspect there will be more of the same for a while to come!)

Mailman: that's an interesting chart! How is it that we have 26 Visitor posts?

I went through the F3 advisor; we're strong against everyone but Japan, France and Carthage. Japan hasn't done much, so I think even "Average" is pretty good when you have stacks of GS's on the rampage. Press on against Japan; a lot of their cities haven't culturally expanded, so you might pass the size 1 cities with no culture to try and get them in peace (or maybe not; up to the player). We should get some of the advanced Techs were missing from Japan; after that maybe the Iroqouis then India, or just head towards India. I think we want to ring the sea zone North of us, but there's a big stretch of nasty Terrain north of India. Hmm, that says more land forces against India, then Iroqouis ... oh well, might as well take a big bite out of Hannible at the same time. But don't take Carthage, don't take the Great Library, and don't take Education as a part of a peace deal; we'll save that until there's a lot of Techs to get for free, then take Carthage. Along the way we should take out the Mongols as well and own the Southern Hemisphere.

Does that sound good - focus on the Southern landmasses before heading North? When the time comes, I'd probably suggest a massive landing in America, take Abe down, then his neighbors. France will be a problem later on, but Joan is hardest to get to.

I'm still like building Warriors and upgrading to GS. At 3-2-2 the stats are slightly less than a Knight's 4-3-2; the GS has been great against Spears, and should do pretty good against Pikes. The AI still have to learn Engineering, and Invention and Gunpowder before they get Muskets, so the GS's should do the job in the South, and be effective even if the North if we get enough time. It is the same upgrade cost to go from Warrior to GS, as it is to go from Horseman to Knight; and we don't have Chivalry yet anyway, so talking about Knights is slightly premature. I think we want to keep hitting the AI hard and fast - warriors and upgrade to GS sounds good for now.

The army hasn't been transported over; let's get it over to Japan to help out the next set of conquests.

Regarding use of Leaders: I would still build Armies for now. We need a lot of cities to get the culture we need; the army will help us capture those cities. All non Ring cities should be pop-rushing fairly often; Temples for sure; Coastal cities can pop-rush Galleys; captured cities with a Barracks can pop-rush Horses. After Temples, some of these cities can save 40 shields or so, and pop-rush 2 citizens for a Library. Would it make sense to rename cities as we finish culture buildings in them? I was thinking, adding a "T" in front once a Temple was built there, a "L" for library, etc. You can sort by the name of the cities in F1 and see what each city has built, and what it needs.

Alright, K-B. Enough of my musings. Good luck!

It all sounds good to me CS. We can press on against Japan in the East ferrying GallicSwords through Burdigala & Edo, and then when the moment suits we can also march west through the Mongols and Carthage and meet in the middle of Iroquoia. That will keep us busy for a while to come.

We should perhaps aim to weaken Hannibal sooner rather than later, and reach the point where we can take Carthage itself when we want to. Perhaps if we can get Carthage and the Mongols fighting each other it will trigger each other's GA as well as wasting their resources.

Renaming "cultured" cities sounds like a good management idea too.

It looks like my weekend is going to be fairly busy and it I won't have time to get to this until Sunday evening at the earliest. A swap would seem to be in order unless you don't mind this sitting idle for several days. Sorry for the inconvieniance.

It looks like my weekend is going to be fairly busy and it I won't have time to get to this until Sunday evening at the earliest. A swap would seem to be in order unless you don't mind this sitting idle for several days. Sorry for the inconvieniance.
KB - Thanks for letting us know. How about - either Keith picks up his lost turn, or Mailman & KB just swap turns. First one to post gets to pick :)

Sounds good to me, too! How about it Keith? Or MailMan? (or Mathilda?)

KB - Thanks for letting us know. How about - either Keith picks up his lost turn, or Mailman & KB just swap turns. First one to post gets to pick
I got it.
Mailman: that's an interesting chart! How is it that we have 26 Visitor posts? I am guessing that m-b is missing sombody. I think that beside 3-4 post by m-b, all the post are from the team.
Would it make sense to rename cities as we finish culture buildings in them? I was thinking, adding a "T" in front once a Temple was built there, a "L" for library, etc. You can sort by the name of the cities in F1 and see what each city has built, and what it needs. Sound good, will do.

The SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_BC0150_01.SAV)

Turn log:
preturn:
rush temples: Shanghai, Tientsin, sugusio.
MM a bit for grouth. and to get most out of our shields.
Renamed cities. added T for temples.
change production in remote cities to temples.
move SG to the front.
change production of some galleys to libraries.
notice that we got from the almost last place in score to the 4th.
currently 638 culture.
traded maps around for more than 100g.
build embacy in carth (66g). they got TGL and HE. building Sun Tzu in 33.
declare war on iroq.
allay carth against them for 245g
we need much more workers.

IBT:
we got two(!) new extantions to our palace.
Shanghai: temple --> worker
Mohacs: warrior --> GS
Lugdunum: worker --> settler
cathium: worker --> GS
Tientsin: temple --> worker
Tolosa: warrior --> GS
sugusio: temple --> library.

1. 330BC
decided to skip Ise (no culture yet) and go to Osaka (the city with horses).
rush temples: beijing, nanking
upgrade 1 warrior to GS.

IBT:
carth decided to declare war on us!! one merc died picking without causing any damage to GS.
I think that the mongols have the same tought in mind.
beijing: temple --> library
nanking: temple --> library.
Richborough: horseman --> warrior
Ratae: warrior --> warrior.

2. 310BC
4/4 GS vs carth warrior 3/3 --> 4/4 GS
10/10 GS army vs japan pike 3/3 + catapult --> 8/11 army + city + catapult.
catapulte vs 3/3 spear --> 3/3 spear
rush temple in canton
found 3 new cities
Japan still do not want to part from any techs or cities. I will attack her capital soon and than we will see.

IBT
4/4 japan archer vs 4/4 GS --> 2/4 GS
Ethermoth: settler --> settler
canton: temple --> worker
Richborough: warrior --> warrior
Catium: warrior --> warrior
Lapurdum: warrior --> library.
curovernum: worker --> library

3. 290BC
catapult vs 3/3 spear --> 3/3 spear
Japan capital's strongest defender is 3/3 spear. try to attack them with 8 GS
4/4 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 1/3 spear
4/4 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 2/3 spear. GS retreat
4/4 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 3/5 GS
4/4 GS vs 3/3 MI --> 2/4 GS
5/5 GS vs 2/3 spear --> 2/4 spear
5/5 GS vs 2/4 spear --> 5/5 GS
3/3 GS vs 1/3 spear --> 2/4 GS. Kyoto is ours! (+2 slaves)
4/4 GS vs 4/4 MI --> 2/4 MI
4/4 GS vs 2/4 MI --> 4/4 GS
8/11 GS army vs 3/3 spear --> 6/11 army
5/5 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 1/5 GS
4/4 GS vs 3/3 archer --> 4/4 GS
rush temples in Tsingtao, clevum, axima
Ise grow to size 2. I have 3 GS and 1 horse near it.

IBT - far away warrior killed carth archer but died at the hands of their warrior.
japan MI scared 1 GS near Ise.
Tsingtao: temple --> waroker
Richborough: warrior --> warrior
clevum: temple --> worker
axima: temple -> worker

4. 270BC
upgrade 4 warrior to GS (raised a bit of cash for the last one by selling maps around)
trade our extra lux (dyes and spice) to the vikings for 13gpt + 18g
Tha battle for Ise
4/4 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 4/5 GS
3/3 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 2/3 spear. GS retreat
4/4 horse vs 2/3 spear --> 4/4 horse. Ise is ours.
Our GA is over.

IBT - notihing much

5. 250BC
The battle for statuma:
4/4 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 2/3 spear. GS retreat
5/5 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 4/5 GS
4/4 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 4/4 GS. statuma is ours + 3 slaves.

IBT
japan 2/3 MI vs 4/5 GS --> 1/3 MI
Tolosa: warrior --> warrior
Verulamium: settler --> settler

6 230BC
4/4 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 2/4 spear
4/4 GS vs 2/4 spear --> 2/4 GS
4/5 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 3/5 GS
4/4 GS vs 3/3 num merc --> 4/5 GS

IBT: the 1/3 MI killed another GS.
Ethermoth: settler --> settler
Lugdunum: settler --> settler
Rutupiae: temple --> library

7. 210BC
found lugdunum
move forces.
upgrade 3 warrior to GS
rush temple in kyoto (for 2 lifes)

IBT -
Mohacs: GS --> warrior
kyoto: temple --> library
Ratae: warrior --> warrior
carth brought some forces.
Glanum: temple --> library
we got another extantion to the palace.

8. 190BC
5/5 GS vs 3/3 num merc --> 2/5 GS
the battle for nara:
5/5 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 3/5 GS
4/4 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 2/3 spear. GS retreat
4/4 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 4/5 GS. nara will have to wait to next turn.
the battale for nagoya:
10/11 GS army vs 4/4 spear --> 9/11 army
5/5 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 3/5 GS. we got nagoya.
5/5 GS vs 3/3 archer --> 5/5/ GS

IBT
London complete sun tzu
Japan land settler + spear to the south

9. 170BC
4/5 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 2/5 GS. we got nara + 1 slave.
The battle for Hakodate:
5/5 GS vs 4/4 spear --> 1/5 GS
5/5 GS vs 3/3 spear --> 4/5 GS. we got Hakodate.
rush temple in ulaa...
4/4 GS vs 4/4 pike --> 4/4 GS
4/4 GS vs 1/3 MI --> 3/4 GS. finally killed that MI
9/11 army vs 5/5 spear --> 8/11 army

IBT: lost 3 SG (2 to carth, 1 to japan). cart captured a city.
the AI has astronomy and theology

10. 150BC
took city back from carth.
4/4 GS vs 3/3 MI --> 4/4 MI
found Camulodunum and Richborough.
Sign peace with carth. gain Sulcis and 33g in the process.
Sign peace with japan. gain the knowledge to build cathadrals + the newly founded city to the south + 2g + WM
We are now at war only with the Iroqs.
trade mono to india for monarchy + 11g + WM
change some library builds to cathadrals. rush 1 in Richborough.
rushed temple in lezoux, xinjian and deva
upgrade 4 warrior to GS (raised a bit of cash for the last one by selling maps around)


summery:
culture: 1074 (gained 436), now we are at +52cpt.
the first built temple is already producing double culture.
we now have 50 cities. (gained this turnset:15 - 7 caputered, 2 in peace deals, founded 6)
built lots of temples.

Notes for next player:
there is a harbor in the south of japan former lands. I suggest connecting it.
I suggest that we should build the FP in kyoto.
I suggest regrouping our SG in japan and attack iroq with full strength. they should be weak after the war with carth.
In 4 turns we can attack chaina again.
there are a lot of places to found new cities. we just need to produce enough settlers.
I suggest rushing settler in shanghai next turn.

Our new holdings:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83181&stc=1

Very action packed set of turns, and also good results with two comments. Too early declaration on Iroqouis and paying so much gold to Carthage for alliance, which they then reneged on. Otherwise, things look pretty good. Might not be a bad idea to declare on far off powers (France and England) and let them waste turns and time sending units our way.

My suggestion for renaming the cities is to place the T, L, C or U at the front of the names - this way they can be sorted in the F1 list. No problem though - I can rename them if noone else does.

I'd suggest building Libraries before Cathedrals - we get the same amount of culture (3 cpt), and they both cost the same (80 shields), but the Libraries only need 1 gpt for maintenance vs 2 for the Cathedral. We wont have really large populations that need the Cathedral's help to keep control (for a while), and the extra libraries will help us with research when we need to do that. (Capturing Great Library at the right time will avoid a lot of research).

We're getting 80+ gpt, which is enough for 1 GS upgrade (or Knight when the time comew) per turn. So if we keep building 10 or so Warriors per turn set, we can keep the pipe going in that way. This frees some of the core cities to build culture, while others can keep the forces coming. We have about 30 GS's now, and 11 Warriors available, so this is about right in line with where we should be.

We're at 50 cities in 150 BC; not bad - in my mind I was thinking about 100 cities by 250 AD would put us on a good track. Definitely rush Temples in the outlying cities as they get 10 Shields and size 2; you can go to F1, click on the "Producing" column to sort by the production of the city. Go to the Temple section, and any non-core city with 20 shields to go and an extra citiezen, right-mouse-click on the Temple to Hurry it. Same thing for Libraries and Cathedrals, when the city is size 4 with 40 Shields stored. Core cities (ring1 and ring2) should be able to build most of their buildings, with an occasional pop-rush.

Is it Keith next? Or did one of K-B or Mathilda want to step in.

Some additional comment on our situation:
There are a lot of places we can settle ourselves. we need to keep the settlers going.

I rushed a cathadral in Richborough. Richborough reached max population so I think it was a good call. It can be changed to library.

The war on japan has left our troops scattered. I suggest to regrouping for 3-4 turns before attacking iroqs.

we still lag in culture after france and others. we might have a problem later on, if they reach 50,000.

KB you are welcome to pick up your turn tonight. I too have had a busy weekend and will not be able to play until tommorrow. I you play tonight I will be all set to go tommorrow with my turn.

Nice progress, things are looking not too shabby. Thanks for filling in for me, and I can pick it back up now. Got it.

...
I rushed a cathadral in Richborough. Richborough reached max population so I think it was a good call. It can be changed to library. ...
I prefer Libraries before Cathedrals, for reasons mentioned already.

We will be pop-rushing a lot in the cities outside our 2 rings. (I think Edo should build FP after Temple, and we should form Rings around Edo as well.) I'd rather see the Ring1 and Ring2 cities complete their cultural buildings with Shields (although I don't have any real issues with pop-rushing either). If these Ring cities reach max Population, they can then build a Settler to found a new city, which should be more valuable to us then using them for pop-rushing.

In general, new cities (captured or founded), should pop-rush a Temple upon reaching size 2, then probably build a Worker, then start storing Shields for a Library, to be pop-rushed once enough Shields and population exist. After that, maybe another Worker or store Shields for a Cathedral. Coastal cities might pop-rush a Galley. Unless we capture Sun-Tzu's, we should restrict our military growth to our inner Ring cities with Barracks.

On to you K-B!

Just a small note regarding Edo:
It still resisting our occupation. (for you to handle - K-B).

SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD0050_01.SAV)

Preturn- Move some troops about, nothing major.

IT- zzz

T1 130

Move more troops, rush a temple in Edo. Go through and rename cities.

IT- zzz

T2 110

More positioning of troops and healing. Rush a temple or two where possible.

IT- zzz

T3 90

I upgrade 4 warriors, disconnect iron again.

IT- zzz

T4 70

I start our invasion of the Iroquois. We are in position to attack next turn.

IT- Iro bring in India against us.

T5 50

We capture Mauch Chunk at no loss. Split up forces for the next few turns.

IT- Carthage completes Copernicus! We're further behind than I thought. We need some World War to break out soon.

T6 30

Capture Akwesasne with no loss.

IT- zzz

T7 10

We capture Cattaraugus, losing one GS. We pop a new leader in the form of Orgetorix. He forms an army as the culture buildings aren't yet expensive enough to warrant disbandment. I also redeclare on China and attack Chengdu, but cannot overcome the garrison yet.

IT- French start Magellan's! What is with this tech pace?

T8 10AD

Not much to do, just reposition troops and rush temples.

IT- zzz

T9 30

Position some troops again, will get another city next turn.

IT- zzz

T10 50

We capture Grand River with no losses.


Summary

Our military is still getting the job done, however things aren't looking great as France is becoming monstrous. I think if we take out Iro, India, Japan and Carthage and Mongols and stuff the area to the brim with ICS cities we'll have enough to pull off the whole gig, although French culture may end up being a problem if they can grow unchecked.

I have been shipping settlers wherever I see open spaces, pretty soon we should just start cramming them in wherever we can.

The naming system is up and running, although I'm sure I've missed one or two in various places.

I haven't looked at the save yet. From the overall score sheet it looks like we're slightly leading the non-C3C group for score growth (with Team Tao almost on the same curve), and looking at culture we're slightly behind Team RowAndLive. A pretty good position; although I believe there's only 2 teams playing PTW, us and RowAndLive.

Non core cities pop-rushing Temples is pretty straightforward. I do believe the next build for such a city should be Worker - reason being is to plant and chop forests! If we can get an extra 20 Shields in one of these cities through Forest chop, 20 Shields from production, then 40 Shields from pop-rush, I think that's about optimal for a Library. Same for a Cathedral. This is assuming it gets +2 food for 20 turns. (You can short rush to Granary, switch to Library/Cathedral and pop-rush the last 20 shields, if you're size 3.) Just reiterating that we will need a large Worker force, and what they'll be useful for.

Might want to put Marketplace on the want-to-build list for our core cities. We're going to need to maximize gpt to maintain all our cultural buildings and to Upgrade our military. Might consider building a Courthouse in some of the nearby corrupt cities (and in ring2 cities!) to gain some more gold, too.

Military - GS's should do pretty good until Muskets are out. At that point their usefulness will start waning, and we'll need to develop a Horseman army for upgrade to Knights/Cavalry. I'm still pretty sure we should be able to dominate and capture the South before we totally give up on GS's; leaving just Carthage for future GreatLibrary elevator.

Keith - I think you're next!

Got It! Will play later tonight.

Looking over the save I realized how out of touch I am with this game. I haven't even been reading the posts. I am sure you have all noticed I have not been participating in the discussion. I feel very ill prepared for this turn set and think I will do the team a great disservice by playing at this time.

I also realized that I have lost interest in Civ3. I think that long break between games put the fire out.

With much regrete I feel that I must resign from Team Peanut for now. Thank you all for being such great teammates and teaching me so much.

Keith Larson

Although I have not had the chance to play with you as much as the others on the team, I will certainly say that the short time has been a pleasure. I understnad the lack of Civ enthusiam, I've gone through several phases of it, and one day I will certainly completely lose it myself. With that said, best wishes, and perhaps we'll see you back again sometime in the future.

Keith :

Sorry to hear it. I have gone off the competitive GOTMs (mainly for lack of time) but have found that these SGOTMS are at just about the right level of diversion and involvement. However I understand what you mean.

I enjoyed playing the last few succession games with you in the various incarnations of the Peanuts and before. If the Civ bug bites again, drop by and sign up. Maybe it will take Civ4 to get you curious again - who knows ? In any event, best wishes for wherever life takes you.

CS - your turn to sit in the captain's chair !

Keith: I've definitely enjoyed your time on this team. I'm sorry to see you drop out; obviously if you change your mind it would be nice to see you return. And this game will definitely be tough to play after the long break! The last two games were quite fun to play, in part because they were fairly small - 5 city challenge in SGOTM4, and for a long time, only 1 city in SGOTM5; not the case here where the empire will be huge with lots of city management. For me, I look at it as an opportunity to practice methods to handle large numbers of cities (along with the camaraderie of team play); a bit daunting after the last two SGOTM's. Good Luck!

I guess I've got it.

@Keith Larson: although I am short time in this team, I am soory to see you go.
On my last SGOTM we ended up with only 2 players (though, those who quit did not notify the rest of the team) I truly hope that this will not be the case in this SGOTM.
Edit: the time goes by realy quick: The previous story is about SGOTM4

It is indeed taking a lot of time to manage all this cities, but that exactly what need to win.
I can suggest that if you see that it is taking too long to complete 10 turns, you can pass it to the next player in the middle of the session.

Regarding rushing culture: we can consider building units in our core cities with the idea to disband those units in the corrupt cities to gain some shields.
I do not believe that we should do that in the near future, but later on when we have the resources to build the heavy culture buildings.

Yes, disbanding units to speed up builds is an option, but really not til much later when our main cities have built most of what they want.

I'm about halfway through the turnset, and should finish tonight, or tomorrow morning. Things are going well on most fronts. Got a question for the Team: Edo is founded on a hill with Iron. This makes it rather awkward to disconnect Iron! We could plan to pillage all the roads leading to Edo every 10-15 turns or so (awkward!), or Abandon Edo. Or leave Iron connected. Since we will eventually want Knights (I think), I don't think we can leave Iron connected. My thought is to build a Settler at Edo, Abandon it and rebuild one space over (still distance 6 from Entremont). This way we can disconnect the Iron whenever we want.

Please let me know your thoughts about this.

That sounds like a very reasonable plan.

Go ahead, CS. Re-do Edo.

I am heading off to the beach for a few days, so when you finish CS it's on to you Mathilda. I look forward to seeing the destruction of our enemies and the flowering of Celtic culture when I return.

PS a thought about the Great Library - How about capturing Carthage sooner before they get too far advanced (eg. rifles & cavalry), and then gifting it immediately to (say) China. That way it will remain isolated with probably one or two defenders. Would that work ? Do the tech advances happen only on the change of turn ?

That would work, but that strategy is usually done when you've built the Great Library yourself. This way you get all the Techs up to Education, gift the GLib, then recapture it later to get more. In this case, our pointy stick (or sharp sword :D ) research will get us to that point - just don't take Education as part of a peace deal!

The problem here is we don't know how far France the the North have gotten! If 2 or more already know Education, then the Great Library will stop working for us immediately. Of course we could capture it, and immediately gift it to China (for example); I don't think we would get all the free Techs (including Education if available), and we would set up what you've described - a GLib defended by Spears and no Carthage around to cause surrounding cities to flip back. That's the key - the city of Carthage has to be gifted away immediately!!!! That same turn!

I'm hoping to get a few Industrial Era Techs from the Great Library. You can tell when the AI have entered the IA by the change in their appearance. If we wait 20 or 30 turns after that, we might even get Communism for free!

I'm off to finish the turns - Moving Crews are descending on Edo!

OK, here's the log:

Turn 0, 50 AD
Checking ...
We're at war with India, China and Iroqouis. Not sure about India yet.
Big stack of Japanese Units; looks like they're heading North
I like the names! I would have reversed the order of the T's and L's, but this works.
Change Edo to Harbor; we want our Luxuries flowing to other continent ASAP!
Change a lot of the core to Marketplaces - we need more cash!
Wait, Nagoya has a Harbor; Workers will connect in 5-6 turns; Set Edo to FP (only place it will get done in any reasonable amount of time!; besides, when we become Communist, I don't think FP placement will matter as much)
No one else has Engineering yet, so Muskets are still a ways away.
Entremont and Veralumium need the bonus foods, and have none of the Three! Adjust for Growth there.
Change some Ring2 cities to Harbors, which they will need to grow
Iron connected in 2, but hardly anybody to upgrade; change one Worker out, so Iron connected in 4.
Send Vet Warriors towards T Ratae
Current GPT is 89
T Rutapae rushes a Harbor
Switch a couple island cities to Harbors

Japanese march North
2 Indian Swords draw nearer
A lone Chinese Warrior comes Adjacent to Ulaanbataar

Turn 1, 70 AD
Several cities complete Temples, including Ulaanbataar, which will probably lose it
Oils Springs Falls - no losses (on our Side :) ); we take out 2 Pikes, and have 2 3/4 GS's left
Dispose of 2 Iroq Spears floating around
Hmm, Iron is connected; must be through Peace with Japan, using their harbors; both sources are in Japan, but we have no Harbors connected yet!
Advance 5 GS's to Overlook Tyandega and Salamanca; 2 More Threaten Salamanca
Rush Settler in Shanghai; Library in Lapurdum

(IBT - Japan moves further North, is India their target?
Indian Swords move into open terrain
Ulaanbataar is destroyed!)

Turn 2, 90 AD
4 GS's take Tyandega; 1 retreat, 3 Spears done in; 1 Promotion; more Archers and a Stack of MedInf heading this way
Move GS's up, have 8 in or near Tyandega
Do in 2 Indian Swords, no hp's taken; 2 GS's can reach Madras next turn
Take down Chinese Warrior; Short Stack of Chinese Spears/Archers coming in from the West
Upgrade 3 GS's

(IBT - Iroq and Carthage are at war also; Iroq units move away!!
Japan keeps going North


Turn 3, 110 AD
Do in 2 loose Iroq Archers; 2 loose Iroq Spears; Heal units in Tyandega
1 GS captures Madras!!
Rush Temple in Tyandega (set citizen to Scientist; 28 turns to Engineering; how long have we not had a Scientist going somewhere?)
Upgrade 3 more GS's
5 GS's are ready to strike Kaifeng from Ratae; 3 are near Chengdu

(IBT - see first Iroq MW; it wants to get trampled :)
Iroq are still more concerned with Carthage
Japan still heading troops North (towards Delhi, probably 20 total)

Turn 4, 130 AD
1 GS takes Kaifeng
GS's Advance on Salamanca (taking out MW);
Madras GS's advance, taking out Archer
4 GS's ready to attack Chengdu; a new town, Ningpo, is seen in the South
Hey, Chinese know Engineering! (So do a few others)
N Japan1 and N Japan2 are founded near Edo; N stands for New, so now cultural buildings, and I figure the name of the civ will help located the city.

(IBT 3 Iroq Archers attack near Salamanca; 2 die, 1 takes out a Wounded GS
Chinese Archer attacks near Chengdu; it goes to it's ancestors
Japan keeps moving North; most of it's units are near Delhi, which it owns)

Turn 5, 150 AD
Madras finishes a Temple (double pop-rush)
T Segusio completes a Harbor; this will give it some pop-growth for eventual Library
Lone Indian Archer hacked up by GS near Madras
2 GS's advance on Lahore
GS Army takes out Pike/Spear at Salamanca; A GS takes out last Spear, Salamanca is ours
Red-Lined Iroq Archer pays for it's earlier success
3 GS's Attack Chengdu - 1 Wins, 1 Loses, 1 Retreats; at least 2 Spears left
2/5 GS takes out Chinese Archer - and gets a Leader
2 other Chinese Spears move towards Chinan - change build to Warrior to block
Keep on MMing Entremont and Veralumium - plan is to alternate Food bonuses so each one grows in 2

(IBT - not much)

Turn 6, 170 AD
2 GS attack Lahore - Kill 1 Spear (4/5 GS left), then lose 1 GS; move up another into position
Niagara Fall does! GS Army takes out Pike; Vet GS takes out another and it is ours
6 GS's advance towards St. Regis
Disconnect Iron near Oil Springs and Kyoto
Rush Temple at Mauch Chunk
3 More GS's ready to attack Chengdu

(Mongols refound on Ulaanbataars ruins)

Turn 7, 190 AD
Entremont finish Settler
Edo finishes Settler; Settler goes 1 space NE (Forest); Abandon Edo and pillage Road
Chengdu survives another attack round; we get 1 win and 2 retreats; 1 spear left
St Regis is ours - 2 Wins and 1 Retreat vs 1 Pike and 1 Spear
Iroq wont talk, so advance towards Allegheny (only > size1 city)
India wont talk either, so we'll keep that war open

Turn 8, 210 AD
Allegheny survives first 2 GS's, we get 1 win and 1 Retreat
Otherwise, pretty quiet; Iron is disconnected so Warriors are being Built

Turn 9, 230 AD
Ver finish Settler
Allegheny falls to GS Army
Trade Horses to America for Theology, WM and 28 Gold
Not much else; reposition to head South; Iroqouis don't want to Talk

(IBT we get notice that things like JS Bach's are being Built; and the English are building Magellan's Voyage, so some of the AI are near the edge of the MidAges.

Turn 10, 250 AD
Finally, Chengdu falls - with 1 Loss and 1 Win
Hey, Ningpo is size 2 - attack with nearby GS's and we get another city from China by Sword
China is down to 1 city, Macao; sign Peace, getting Feudalism and Engineering (+ WM, 6 Gold and 4 gpt) for Theology
No one has Invention yet!!!
Shuffle things around - including the bonus foods near Ver and Entremont
Rush a Temple, and a Harbor I believe.

We're up to 72 cities, and 3012 Culture.

End of Turnlog

Workers will connect Iron as soon as the next player (Mathilda) presses enter. We have over 600 Gold, and several Warriors in Ratae ready to be upgraded; I think 4 more will complete this turn also. A Horseman is standing by to disconnect the Iron.

The Empire is getting huge!! Very hard to handle. In general, I recommend building Temples in the outlying and newly captured cities, pop-rushing them as soon as possible (cities that went out of resistance with 3 or more citizens, I pop-rushed the temple right away using 2.) Next, I'd suggest a Worker in these cities, then a Library. This is one way to organize the empire so you know what to build next - if it finishes a Worker, you probably want a Library after.

If you go to F1, and click on the Rightmost column (Producing), the city list is organized by what each city is building; all the cities building Temples will be together, those building Library will be together, etc. This is an easy way to scan through and see if something is ready to be pop-rushed!! If I look at the cities building Temple, and it needs 20 turns more, I can check the faces for that city to see if there are 2; if so it's ready to pop-rush. You click on the city name, this opens the city display and select the rush button, and you'll have a new Temple next turn. I usually rename the city at this time (adding the T); this can only be done (as far as I know) by being in the main map, Right-Click the city and select Rename from the drop down menu.

For Libraries, you can short rush a Library with 40 Shields stored and only 3 population by first changing the build to Granary, pop-rush 1 citizen to fill up to 60 Shields, then change build to Library, and pop-rush a 2nd citizen to go to 80 Shields. I believe there are 2 or 3 cities that are set up to do this in the next 4 or 5 turns.

I changed a lot of coastal cities with very little land available to Harbor; this is important to do to allow them the pop-growth for later rushing. Some of the really remote cities that are in this category (or on a remote island) MUST pop-rush a Harbor as soon as they hit Size 2 with 20 Shields stored; otherwise they riot, you have to form an Entertainer, and they starve back down to size 1. This happened to Noviomagus :( (I missed it). So check Harbor builds also for 20 Shields stored and just hitting size 2.

Here is our Eastern Iroquouis and Indian conquests:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_ad250Iroq.JPG

Notice the stacks of Japanese units heading North near Lahore; they've been moving the entire time. And they've bypassed some Indian Towns so I think they're after somebody else.

We have 2 Armies in occupied Iroqouis territory; and some 10 or so GS's which are healing up. I'm not sure I'd pursue more Iroqouis towns - they're down to 4 now, about to lose their Capital to the Carthaginians. The rest are deep in Jungle. I'd suggest seeing if they'll be more Generous after Carthage take their Capital; maybe give us a Tech (like Chivalry) and a city.

India is likewise not forthcoming. But I think our focus has to be Carthage and Mongols at this point, so if we can't get something in a few turns, maybe sign Peace. We have almost no forces poised against Gandhi, and we really should be going South, not North.

Here's our Western border area near the Mongols:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_ad250China.JPG

I'd keep connecting Iron, upgrading Warriors, then disconnecting right away. We have 4 sources (a 5th near Madras), but the one in our heartland is most easily accessed and we have more Workers there as well. Mongols do not look very strong to me; I think we can start pressing against them very soon, then squeeze Hannible in a GS Vice. :D Our 3rd Army is active, but has no units in it; it's near Chengdu.

We have 3 Armies; maybe the next leader should rush the Pentagon to give us a 4 unit Army capability. (As I say that, I'm remembering that GL's can't rush even small wonders now. Oops.)

With our conquests, and a few Marketplaces being finished, we're at 103 gpt coming in. I'd keep building Marketplaces in our core area (as we have time to; conquest is pretty important) to build up our cash inflow to support our cultural buildings.

Alright, Mathilda. You're up!! (Unless Peanut has canceled his weekend plans ... not likely!)

250 AD Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD0250_01.SAV)

A Reminder to All: do NOT take Education as part of any deal, peace or otherwise!!! And if you capture Carthage, which has the Great Library, immediately (this turn!) gift the City of Carthage to China.

OK. I'm a little apprehensive about this, I haven't been following the game very closely either. However, I do have time this weekend so I'd like to take a look at it. I know I didn't do very well last time, but this time I feel like I can devote some proper attention to this. Might end up playing less than ten turns though, I'll see how it goes. Thanks Steve for clear advise. I'll have time from tommorrow afternoon onwards, so still some more time for comments and advise. I make sure I study the game properly before starting.
Thanks all.

Math

Yes, the game has changed dramatically from where we started. I don't tend to play many games with this many cities cause they are painful to manage. It might help to think of this as an opportunity to play a massive, intense game without having to play every turn of it, just 10 turns (or so) at a time. Take your time to get a bit familiar with the setup before you start, and decide on what you'd like to accomplish over the next set of turns, especially in the combat area. Our forces are split right now, most of them in Iroqouis country, and a building force close to the Mongols. I feel it's faster to grow the force next to the Mongols, and I don't think they're that strong; so I'd suggest doing the upgrades available to you over the next turn or so; disconnect Iron for more warrior builds while moving out against the Mongols. Might require another set of Warriors from more upgrades in 5 or 6 turns or so, but I think by the end of the next turn set the Mongols will be mostly done and our forces will be nearly ready for Carthage. We're at war with India and the Iroqouis; might get a good deal from both of them in the near future for peace (even if we don't get a deal, you still might want a peace deal to prevent Indian WE's from causing problems), but I don't see pursuing more conquests from either right now.

Of course at the same time we have to keep Veralumium and Entremont building Settlers, and the rest of the Empire building culture.

Good Luck, Mathilda!

@civ_steve: I see that you got Feudalism.
This will prevent us from building SG any more !!!

I suggest changing all current warriors builds to horses ASAP and getting Chivalry from the iroqs.

Edit: we can get Chivalry from the Babs for horses !!! we can get two cities out of iroqs in the peace deal (no need to wait for thier capital to go down) and continue fighting with India.

I've been reading the thread and looking at the save.
I see an idea mentioned earlier about trying to start some wars between the AI and also about declaring war on some far away civs. Neither of these seems to have been done.
I'm thinking Babs against America and French against the English. Any thoughts, any advice?
Well spotted Mailman about the GS having become obsolete, and us needing chivalry now and being able to get it from hte babs. If I do that deal with them about the horses, I don't want to be declaring on them straight away, so it would have to be us and them against America. Problem is America is quite close to us at the North, so I don't feel comfortable with that either. England - France shouldn't create that sort of problems though.

France is our biggest problem at the moment. They are the largest among the AI with even more culture then we do (as well as more culture per turn). I do not know if we can pull this, but a dog pile on them sound good. we might need more cash for that.

Preturn:
Take a long time looking over the game, going through the cities and trying to get a feel for this.
Set a target of sorting out Mongolia.

Tyendenaga sack scientist, start working the cow, pop growth in 7.
Toyama swap entertainer for scientist.
Camulodunum 4 happy + 1 clow -> sack, now growing
Anyang (pop 1) building a worker, shields full growth in 4 -> change to harbour.
Verulamium can be improved a bit to finish the settler same turn as it grows (in 4), without anyone else
losing anything, so do that.
Sign peace with the Iroquis for Kahnawake and Oka + wm.
Both start a temple.
Sign peace with India, paying them 33 gold + wm for Chivalry.
I wanted to save te horses with Babs for signing them up against the French.
Change all the warrior builds to horses, think about it a long time and chamge them back.
I admit this was a selfish decision, horses -> knights would have taken that long that I woudn't have seen
any fighting at all.

Press enter.

Turn 1 - 260AD
(Japanese still heading North. Iroquis capital still holds)

Cattaraugus worker -> library
Burdigala marketplace -> barracks (we only have them in six towns, want some more, especially in towns
that are getting more than three spt.)
T Richborough Warrior -> med inf to be swapped to warrior...
Cathium, Lapurdum, Ratae the same.
Toyama - harbour -> temple and citizen to work and contribute to population growth
Nara - Temple -> worker
Camulodunum worker -> library
Richborough harbour -> Temple
(we seem to have two Richboroughs, the computer probably doesn't recognise T Richborough as the same
name when it allocates new names)


Upgrade 10 warriors to MI for 600 (out of 863 in the kitty).
Disconnect the iron.
Start moving the empty army towards the Mongols.
Generally move those that are fully healed either towards Mongolia or Carthage,
depending on their current location.

Checking through the cities if anything can be rushed.
Chengdu had pop 4, 1 sield towards a temple ->pop rush, lose two citizens.
St Regis population 3, 4 shields gathered, won't let me do the same. Why did it let me in Chengdu?
Oh well, rush barracks for loss of one and temple for the other one.
Grand River only needed ten more shileds /turns for theirs, so they get one rushed.

Turn 2 - 270AD
(Iroquis capital still holds. The Japanese, you guessed it - North)

Entremont settler -> settler
Grand River Temple -> worker
Richborough warrior -> warrior
Chengdu temple -> worker
St. Regis Temple -> worker

Babs are building Bach's.


Moving troops toward the fronts.
Bejing needs 40 shields for a library (pop4) will rush at expense of two citizens.
Nanking needs 50, will rush a granary for two and Library for another one.
Niagara Falls stopped rioting so they get a Temple rushed.


Turn 3 - 280AD
(Scandinavia and Carthage sign peace, Iroquis capital still holds!
The Carths must have lost ten units there by now :wow: )

Beijin Library -> Cathedral (not sure what they were supposed to be doing next,
but can always be changed later, if this was the wrong choice)
Niagra Fall -> temple -> library
Nanking Library -> Cathedral
Lugdunum Market place -> library
Richb. warrior -> warrior
--------------Chengdu riots, damn! Hire a scientist as temporary measure.
Ratae warrior -> warrior
Tolosa Marketplace -> warrior

Much the same as before, moving troops.
Still nobody's got invention.

Deva and Xinjian rush a harbour.
No other rushing possibilities this turn.

Turn 4 - 290AD
(Vikings (polite) want to sell printing press for 430 gold - no thanks.
The Carthaginians finally manage to catch the Iroquis capital. The Iroquis are no longer.
The Japanese -> North. they are definately a funny lot.
They've taken Delhi, but ignored Bombay :confused: )

Osaka worker -> library
Mohacs marketplace -> MI (to be swapped when the iron is disconnected again)
Xinjian harbour -> library
Richborough warrior -> warrior (well MI for now, you know what i mean)
Cathium, Lapurdum the same
Verulamium settler -> settler
Deva harbour -> library

Upgrade six warrios to MI for 360 gold out of 578, disconnect iron.
Change my mind about the troop builds and change all over to horses.

Axima rushes a library.
N Japan 1 rushes Temple.
Same for Japan 2
Chinan swap production from Library to harbour.

Turn 5 - 300AD
(Sell our wm to the mongols for 11g.)

----- Grand river riots (it's not connected up yet, so no lux), hire a scientist there,
the other one in ..... can be sacked.
Burdigala barracks -> horse
Border expansion pops a hut and we get barbs :(
Axima library -> worker
Eboracum temple -> harbour
Japan 1 & 2 temple -> worker

N Japcoast 2 founded

Declare war on Mongols.
Two GS kill themselves on the same pike at Choybalsan. :mad:
Over in Centralia GS kills him self redlining a Keshik, another one retreats against a MI
Others just getting into position.

Turn 6 - 310AD

Keshik kills GS at Howd
Barbs take away 4 gold and brake a road.

Entremont settler -> settler
-----Hakodate riots, swap production from library to worker and temp. hire a clown

Choybalsan, round two.
MI defeates the now full of himself pike and the puny town is ours.
Start a Temple.
Howd, round one. Lose three MIs in the process, but it's ours.
Start temple.
Dispose of two MIs next to Centralia and :band: get a leader :)

Isca rushes a harbour
Augostodurum a temple
Kaifeng a temple
Shanghai triple pops :wow: a library. Need to keep an eye on their happiness now.
Actually, turn on the governor there.

End of turnlog

Now, I actually haven't got time to play any longer till god knows when,
so I'm sorry but I'll have to leave it here.
Hope this doesn't create too many problems.

Note the barb near Osaka.
There's a pile or workers next to Hovd, so that it can be connected up.
Trades haven't been checked this turn.
The new leader is in the same pile with the army on a mountain near Centralia.
The Carthaginians have been running their troops back home from the old Iroquis capital site,
so there's about fifteen of them in that neighbourhood.

Thanks guys, hope I didn't mess up too much this time.


Math


The 310 save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD0310_01.SAV)

OK, I got it now.

It's been a busy weekend, so I haven't been able to check this thread. Yikes about the Feudalism! In retrospect, I'd rather have the GS at 3-2-2 then the MedInf at 4-2-1, and 20 gold cheaper also. And since we're playing a "Capture the Great Library Later" type of game, we didn't really need Feudalism at this time anyway. (If Muskets show up, we know the AI has Gunpowder!). Very Sorry. :( So we're going to want to build up a force of Knights eventually; I guess the decision will be in individual player's hands as to whether we build Warriors faster for MedInf to push on, or start building a force of Horsemen more slowly for Knights. We have a couple that can be upgraded now, but we don't have many.

Hmm, there ARE Keshiks!

OK, now I've even got the save. We are building Horsemen; I think that's a good idea. :) I see a LOT of NumMercs in the field for Carthage; we could declare now and use our GS Armies to clear out some of Hannible's defenders before they can get back into their towns and fortify; or buiild up more forces to eventually crush him. I think we should wait on Carthage, and focus on Japan now; Japan has Chivalry, too, and we should take him out before he gets lots of Samurai in the field!

Very detailed Write-up Mathilda! :) It gets very exhausting and time-consuming to do these turns, so I really appreciate the details. I still think the best thing (in general) to do with the food bonuses is to give GAME to Entremont forever, the Western WHEAT to Veralumium nearly forever, and switch the Eastern WHEAT between the two so each grows in 2 turns (occasionally Veralumium can switch out the Western WHEAT to Lugdunum because it can't support 4-turn Settlers, but Entremont Can.) This requires a LOT of MMing at this stage, especially since all the surrounding cities are going to grab these spaces as well, and it's not nearly as crucial as in the early stages of the game.

Main good suggestions to make is to optimize the shield count in each city building Horsemen. T Richborough is getting 11 useable Shields; give a Mined BG to T Tolosa (getting it to 6 useable Shields), and use a Mined Grassland instead. T Mohacs is getting 9 useable Shields and 1 food per turn; either move a Grassland citizen to the HIlls (10 Shields but no growth), or a Hills citizen to the Grassland (8 Shields and 2 food per turn). At T Ratae I'd consider moving a Grassland citizen to the mined Hills, getting 6 useable Shields or Horseman in 5 turns (the best it can do at size6 is 5 turns, so you're there earlier.) T Cathium might as well swap a Hill for a Plains space; still gets 4 Shields, but will grow to size5 eventually. T Camulodunum and T Cuvonerum, after their current builds, might want to get some Barracks and adding to our Military!

Hey, we're doing pretty good in the game! We're even catching up with the C3C guys in score, and have a good slope to our scoring line; and we're right with the leaders in cultural growth as well. I suspect our conquests have gone better then most, and with the extra cities we (likely) have, we should be able to push the culture better, as well. Just look for opportunities to pop-rush cultural buildings by checking F1 fairly frequently.

Is it MailMan's turn now? I thought K-B went after Mathilda, and Peanut might be getting back about now. I guess Mailman, then Peanut or K-B should be fine!

Turn log
Pre turn:
Establish embacy in England (79g)
Declare war on france
Ally England against france (WM + 265g)
Establish embacy in babylon (94g)
Ally babs vs the france for horses (get WM in return)
Raise some cash.
Not enough gold for more.

changed Shanghai to cathadrel instead of library to help happines.
rushed harbor instead of building library in remote city
MM the capital. it is in bad shape as a settler factory
changed production in some core cities to settlers.

IBT - china was destroyed by the vikings
Carth give us the boot. I agree for now.
The mongols kill two units 4 of them had died.

1. 320AD
upgrade one horse to knight.
rush 2 temples
kill some mongols. no captures yet.

IBT Invention was discovered.

2. 330AD
capture Centralia from the mongols.

IBT - france ally Japan against us.
They capture one city and kill several workers.

3. 340AD
pull back forces from carth to pick on Japan.
rush harbor and a temple
found 2 new cities.

4. 350AD
took back our city from Japan. get couple of slaves back as well.
found a city
upgrade two horses
rush 2 temples and 2 harbors

5. 360AD
an army of GS with full helth lost to a samurai.
capture 1 city from Japan and 2 from the mongols.
found a city
dicided its time for mass killing:
rush 2 temples
rush 2 libraries for 2 lifes each
rush 4 libraries for 3 lifes each
Sign peace with mongols for a city + printing press + WM

IBT - now france decided to through india at us.
the AI know free artistry

6. 370AD
rush temple for 2 lifes.
We now gain more culture than france.
It looks like frnace is taking over england.

IBT - All of Japan forces are coming back from the north.
Some city will be lost.

7. 380AD
found a city
rush 4 libraries for 4,3,2,2 lifes.
rush cathadral for 3 lifes.
upgrade 3 horses
capture a city from Japan.
lost another full strength SG army to a samurai
found a city

IBT
france allign America against us.
japan raise 1 northen town of ours.

8. 390 AD
nothing much. move forces around.

9. 400AD
capture a city from Japam
sign peace with them for another city.
build colony over incense
rush temple
found new city

10 410AD
rush 3 libraries for 2,3,4 lifes.
rush temple and harbor
upgrade 3 knights.
found a city


Summery:
started far away war with france and ally several other nation against them.
kinda backfired as france allyied several AI against us.
had a small wars with mongols and Japan gaining some of their cities.
currently we are at war with India and America.
Killed a lot of our population as sacrifice to the culture god.
gained 15 cities. cpt increase from 154cpt to 220cpt (at lease 11cpt more from next turn)
Our forces are scattered. I suggest regroup than attack again.

The SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD0410_01.SAV)

By civ_steve:
Is it MailMan's turn now? I thought K-B went after Mathilda, and Peanut might be getting back about now. I guess Mailman, then Peanut or K-B should be fine!

I was thinking that it was my turn. I am sorry if I skipped anybody.

So, who's next?

I think KB got leapfrogged. Let's correct that and then get the roster back on track, so how about KB next, then CS, Peanut, Mathilda, KB, Mailman, CS, Peanut, ... unless of course Keith L has a relapse of Civ fever.

PS. the beach was just great. It was hard to come back.

I bet it was! We had the best weather in several months (no rain, warm and very sunny - not a cloud in sight!) It was an awesome weekend!

We haven't heard from K-B for a bit; are you sure you want to be skipped Peanut? Or maybe you could play 4 turns and get us back in sync. (If not, perhaps we should try to do 11 turns for a while to get back in sync.)

MailMan - bad luck with the Armies losing to Samurai. I've seen that lots of times, which is one reason I don't do much Leader fishing in PTW. (Now C3C armies are another story!) Our unit building has really slowed down now that we are focusing on Horsemen. Might want to consider building some Barracks around the Empire in places with fast growth; we can pop-rush a Horsemen every 10 turns in these places. We really need to grow the army; question is do we want to reengage Japan after Peace expires to take them out for good, or focus on Carthage before he starts getting Muskets. Either way, the next turnset must focus on rebuilding and coordinating our military. I think it's a good gambit to get France involved in Wars; they are a democracy so even though Joan is running over England, the WW has got to be hurting. Being Despots, we don't care :) , so we can really put a hurt on France by not signing Peace until she forces us to. We're also at war with India and America; America needs Horses so I think we can sign peace fairly soon. India might be more of a problem; it would be nice to turn Mahatma around towards France, but I don't think we have much bargaining power with him.

I checked F1; Hovd is ready to pop-rush a Temple this turn.

OK, who's next?

I'm willing, ready and able to take it.

SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD0520_01.SAV)

Preturn- We look alright. Rush temple in Hovd.

IT- India declares on Babylon.

T1 420

Not much. Decide to start gathering troops near Carthage.

IT- zzz

T2 430

Troops movements. Not much else.

IT- France and Babylon sign peace.

T3 440

More troop movement.

IT- zzz

T4 450

Not much new.

IT- zzz

T5 460

Again not much. Consolidating forces.

IT- zzz

T6 470

Nothing new.

IT- zzz

T7 480

Boring.

IT- zzz

T8 490

Still fairly boring. I get the itch to declare on Carthage, so I do it since we're average in military. Form and embassy with the Mongols and pull them in against them for 10g. They didn't need much convincing :lol: I pull in the Japanese as well, as I don't want a back door suprise from them.

We take Theveste, and Gades.

IT- India declares on England.

T9 500

Make peace with America as they are about to capture a city. France is in Anarchy :D

IT- Make peace with India as well.

T10 510

Stupid Mongols block our path to Sabratha. No attack yet.

IT- America declares on English.

T11 520

We lose one knight but take Sabratha. I put most troops on there to crush resistance, so next turn you can rush temple.


Summary

I would check around a lot before the next player starts. There are probably rushes to be made and cities that need to renamed. Carthage war is going nicely. I suggest continuing it.

To help the next player I compiled a list of cities that can pop rush culture buildings on the pre-turn for total of 42cpt:
Noviomagus - Temple
Nagasaki - Temple
Lezoux - Temple
Durocortorum - Temple
Kyoto - library for 2 lifes
Shanghai - library (3 lifes) and in two turns settler for 2 lifes (than start building the colosieum)
Niagara - library for 3 lifes.
Tsingrao - library for 3 lifes
Oil springs - library for 3 lifes
Nagoya - library for 2 lifes.
Chengdu - library for 2 lifes.
Glevum - library for 3 lifes.
Deva - library for 3 lifes
T Durocortorum - library for 2 lifes.
T celts1 - library for 3 lifes.
Bejing = cathadral for 2 lifes.


In the next few turns:
sabratha - should rush library for 4 lifes after the resistance is over.
T Salamanca - Library (in 3 turns for 2 lifes)
Ise - library for 2 lifes in 2 turns.

B.T.W. - I do not recall that we had any culture flips in our favour.
Please correct me if I am wrong

I suppose I'm next, so I've got it.

I've not seen any culture flips (for or against us.)

MailMan - that's a great list of pop-rush candidates! Thanks! I'd suggest that we make such a list prior to each turn set (preferably by the player just finishing, but technically it can be anyone on the team.)

France is now a Republic. One thing that concerns me a bit, is that getting the Northern civs to fight each other will slow down research a bit. I don't know if reaching Communism will be a turning point in the game or not, but we'll definitely get there later now. Pop-rushing is working pretty well for us at this point in time; we should be able to get a Temple, Library and Cathedral in nearly every city we currently have by the time we reach the Industrial Age, which is at least 8 cpt/town. We have exactly 100 towns, with more to come.

China is gone now. England appears to be on the ropes most, and is distant, so if we capture Carthage, we should gift Carthage to England now, I think. They also have a 1 tile island city, so unless the Vikings take them out, Elizabeth will be around for a while.

We have 8493 culture, and the heart of our army is 15 Knights, 16 Gallic Swords with 9 Medieval Infantry. I'll probably play some today, and finish tomorrow.

Turn 0, 520 AD
We're at war with France and Carthage; Japan and Mongols are allied with us vs Carthage :)
(What's that adage - keep your friends close and your enemies closer still? !!)
Interesting Trade options out there.
We are allied with England against France, and past 20 turns on it; how valuable is this alliance to Elizabeth?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_ad520EngTrd.JPG

Pretty valuable! :)

France, America and Vikings have Gunpowder
Cancel Dyes and Spices to Vikings for 13 gpt; hmm, they wont renew and wont consider giving up Gunpowder
OK, form Embassy with Ragnor; get him to Ally vs France for Dyes and Spices
Trade Horses to America for WM and 366 Gold
Rush Temples at Nagasaki, Noviomagus, Lezoux, Durocort2 (renamed)
Rush Libraries at Kyoto, Shanghai, Niagara (short rush to Longbow first), Oil Springs (rush to Granary first), Nagoya, Durocortorum, Chengdu, T Deva (rush to Granary first), T Celts1 (rush to Granary first)
Rush Cathedral in Beijing
Hold off on Tsingtao and Glevum; Tsingtao because there are 2 Carthaginian ships in the area and only 1 GS guarding all of China, and Glevum for 7 turns, to use 2 lifes and shorten the time for Cathedral.
(IBT - Carthage ships sail on; Mongols advance towards Carthage proper; Not much)

Turn 1, 530 AD
Lots of builds
Found new city in Japan territory (put pressure on Tokyo)
Why is all this grassland being Irrigated? We are a LOOONG way from taking advantage of that; mining seems to make more sense near our core, and just put roads anywhere else (unless you need to get water to a food bonus.)
Knights and GS's advance on Leptis Magna; 8/13 GS Army provides cover.
Rush Library in T Tatung, Temple in Sabratha (which is pacified)

(IBT - nothing much)

Turn 2, 540 AD
Rush Barracks at Shanghai (for future Horse rushes)
Rush Temple at Ise
We capture Leptis Magna, and have units within distance of Carthage
Arrgh! There's all this irrigated Grassland around Edo!! Start Mining to get this FP finished!

Turn 3, 550 AD
Rush Library at Salamanca
Thought about it, changed a lot of Cathedral builds in the Chinese zone to Settlers; maybe the build pattern should be Temple, Worker, Library, Settler, Cathedral, to keep the towns coming.
Send units in Carthage south of Carthage to go after Rusicade and Nora. We'll peel cities away from Carthage until there's nothing left (evil laughter)

Turn 4, 560 AD
Salamanca finish Library, set to build Barracks next. This way we can accumulate horsemen near the front for Upgrades and speed their effect as Knights.
Found 2 new cities
Spar with NumMercs and advance on Rusicade
Start Shipping 6 more Knights across the channels (Iron was connected last turn, disconnected this turn)

(IBT Tons more NumMercs and some LongBows are converging towards Leptis Magna
Babs finish Leo's
Vikings start on Shakespeare's
Several are working on Smith's
Carthage wants Peace (Ha!); they know Gunpowder, so that will be part of any future peace deals we reach

Turn 5, 570 AD
Rush Barracks in Salamanca
Rush Temple in L Magna (they are beseiged)
Rusicade is taken (1 GS lost vs 2 Num Mercs); 4 Knights in position to attack Nora next turn)
Reinforcements arriving at Carthage front
4 More towns founded

(IBT how bizarre; with 12 NumMercs 3 LongBows and 1 Archer within 1-2 turns of Leptis Magna, they all turn back to attack our reinforcements. We lose 1 Elite Knight, and they leave a stack of Archers and LongBows vulnerable. L Magna finishes a Temple, starts on Library
Just noticed, France has totally run over England; Elizabeth is down to a 1 tile island city)

Turn 6, 580 AD
Rush Library in Matsuyama (3 lifes)
Capture Nora, losing 1 Knight vs 2 NumMercs
Dispose of 4 NumMercs, 3 LongBows and an Archer near L Magna, losing 1 GS
Rush Cath in TL Rutupiea (3 Lifes)
Rush Library in TL Richborough2 (3 Lifes)
2 more towns founded

(IBT Carthage's Caravels sink 2 Galleys near Burdigala; we'll need to build more
Worse news: Japan signs alliance with France against us! 1 Undefended former Iroq city is razed)

Turn 7, 590 AD
Set up for one push against Carthage (all or nothing)
Rush Library at T Osaka
Change Prod to Barracks at Ise and Rush
Rush Cathdral at TL Satsuma
Rush Temp at N Japcoast
Adjust Knights around Japan

(IBT Carthage Caravels turn back - slightly damaged
No mass show of Samurai - a few Japanese Swords show up near our Indian Holdings

Turn 8, 600 AD
2 Wounded NumMercs hold Carthage; I've got enough forces to go another round, covering our holdings
Road to Madras is connected (and Iron); upgrade 3 Horses in Japan, 2 more in Burdigala
A Knight exacts revenge on the Japan Pike that razed our city; and enslaves his Settler
Temples Rushed in Cam2 and Lug2 and Gades
Rush Cathedral (3 lifes) in TL Axima
Rush Harbor in Suo (just in time)
Found 1 more city

(IBT lose 3 wounded Knights, and win against 2 LongBows near Carthage
A 3rd NumMerc is moved into Carthage
Japan is moving in on Lahore, but nothing anywhere else)

Turn 9, 610 AD
Really, REALLY close, but we take Carthage!!! (lose 1 Knight, and our GS Army is now 4/13)
Carthage will still not hand Gunpowder over. Gift Carthage (the city) to the English
Also, sign ROP with Elizabeth so we have full mobility around Carthage (heh, heh!)
Knight arrives in Madras just in time to defend it from Japanese Pike
Lone GS swears to defend Lahore or die in the attempt (just might happen)
Upgrade more Horsemen (we're down to 13 Gold)
Rush Library in T Ningpo
Rush Temple in N China1, N China3

(IBT we lose GS and Lahore - since it had culture, we can get it back later
Lose a Knight and our Army near Carthage - they have ROP with England too

Turn 10, 620 AD
Rush Library at T MauchChunk (2 Lifes), and T Shantung (3 Lifes), and T Kaifeng (2 lifes)
Rush Temple at Arauso
Spar with Carthage (lose a Knight, kill 2 LongBows)

(Ibt Knight retreats to attack from Carth LongB; Carthage is focusing on L Magna again)

Turn 11, 630 AD
Found forward city and attack Tokyo with 8 Knights, lose 4, kill 3 Samurai and a Pike; 1 Wounded Samurai left
Rush Temples at N China4 and N Japan4
Rush Library at T Eboracum (3 Lifes) and T Choybalsan (2 lifes)
Sign Peace with Carthage (we're spent in this zone)
Don't like the Mongol Pike next to our undefended Matsuyama
Sign MA with Mongols against Japan for 2 Luxuries (that might keep him at bay)
BTW Mongols also have Gunpowder (another opportunity for pointy stick research)

End of Turnlog

Well, Carthage the city has been taken and gifted to the English, so our Great Library ploy is still in effect. We want to wait until the AI have been in the IA for probably 20 to 30 turns before we recapture Carthage. Taking Carthage pretty much drained our forces; I might have been hasty to do it, but the stacks of NumMercs that Hannible has running around kind of forced my hand; I didn't want to be defending our holdings against a huge stack of NumMercs and LongBows. We have just signed peace with Carthage, so the stacks adjacent to LMagna should retreat.

We're still at war with France, and I believe England and the Vikings are allied with us.

We're at war with Japan, and just allied the Mongols with us. Primarily to keep their pikeman from taking our undefended city (we hope.) Here's a picture of the immediate Japanese front.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Peanut_sg6_ad630Japan.JPG

I'm afraid there are no defenders that can reach Yokohama, so it will fall and we'll lose it's Temple. Lahore has already fallen, losing a Temple. Both cities can be recaptured or gotten for Peace. Tokyo has just the 1 wounded Samurai in it, and we have 3 healthy Knights that can attack, so it should fall next turn. That should open the door (once we've recouped some of our forces) to take the rest of Japan proper. Tokunaga does have several units heading South from the India area; we have 3 or 4 Knights up there to counter them, somewhat. That's that.

The AI has researched the entire upper tract, so it's just the lower tract left; might still be 3 or 4 Techs to go before the IA, so still a ways. We should be able to finish off the local Japanese forces, and the Mongols, and probably do in the rest of Carthage before any of the civs reach the Industrial Age. Definitely want Gunpowder from the next civ we sign peace with.

The Galleys off Burdigala can ship 2 loads of units over to New Edo every turn. Load up, move into Edo to Unload, move back out 1 space, load up, move back into Edo Unload, move back out. Most efficient way to ship units over.

We have Barracks in Ise and Salamanca, so these cities can rush a Horsemen every 10 turns (also in Shanghai) to supplement our core city builds. Definitely short on Cash right now.

New Edo has 22 turns left to finish FP, with all the Mining I've been doing. Might want to remine the Cow after it reaches size6; that might give us an extra Shield to use. Also, should use the Iron Hills, which have 2 Shields natively once New Edo grows. Getting the FP build should lower corruption in general, and make a 2nd core around New Edo useable (Marketplaces!)

We're up to 12,198 culture, with 116 cities.

Soonest Temple rush is still 3 or 4 turns away. Check F1, click on Producing Column, and scroll down to Temple section

Libraries - Madras in 2 turns, using 2 Lifes (has to grow to size 3)
T St Regis in 1 turn using 2 Lifes

Cathedral - TL Segusio in 3 turns using 3 Lifes

That's the nearterm stuff. Every new city should usually be able to rush a Temple in 10 turns. I've also been building a lot of Settlers; some of those can be rushed in large population cities, once they get 10 Shields.

Alright Peanut, you're UP!

630 AD SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD0630_01.SAV)

Ok. Got it. I'll play 11 turns.

I think money is starting to be a issue that we should handle more carefully.
New towns gail us only 1 gpt for 10 turns (10g) and the old towns can't produce much more.
That situation will only change once we get communism.

My immidate suggestion is to STOP spending money on upgrades.
The core cities should build a mix of knights/settlers instead of horses/settlers.
We have a lot of territory that we can plant cities in.
Our war efforts can be set a side for 20-30 turns.
We should continue rushing culture building as soon as possible.

Money is definitely an issue; it's not going to get any better with more Cultural buildings - they need to be maintained! We've been keeping at between 40 to 50 gpt during my session, 20 more Libraries will bring that to 0-10 gpt.

Empire growth is essential; new towns provide at least 1 gpt until they get a Temple; at least that's 2 more culture/turn that doesn't decrease the treasury. We may want to create Taxmen in cities that have extra food (or even in general). Our military is important to increase the size of the empire, bring in new cities, and space to build additional ones. I'm definitely not happy with the Japan situation; we need to at least press on to occupy their areas (gets us down to 3 fronts); eventually Carthage and Mongols (down to one main front.)

Money is only useful for upgrades right now anyway. We can't afford to get down to 0 gold and 0 gpt; we wouldn't be able to maintain let alone grow our Empire.

Things to do now to increase money flow: 1.) Finish the FP in New Edo! This gets us lessened corruption (optimal city number is doubled - some effect), a 2nd core (closest cities match the distance ring3 around Entremont; other cities are staggered). 22 turns to go; that will probably go down a few turns once it becomes size 6 and shield use is optimized. 2.) Build Marketplaces in core cities, including the new core. Without the market places we have, we'd be running a deficit already. 3.) Build some Courthouses. Case by case basis; some of the Ring6 cities might benefit from this.

We are able to build more Horsemen than we can upgrade. I'd suggest we develop a reserve of 10-15 Horsemen, then stagger our cities out (maybe some right now) to build the other buildings we need that they are missing - Marketplaces if they don't have them, Cultural also, Settlers, too. I'd keep saving money for Upgrades (maybe every 10 turns upgrade 5 or so), but cycle through as to which city builds replacements. And some cities with more production could build Knights directly as Mailman suggested (I think Mohacs has 12 spt, and can build 6 turn Knights, Richborough can build 7 turn Knights, etc.)

Pre-turn : Looks good CS. Fixed a few city names, but left Entremont unchanged for nostalgia sake. Put some citizens on slow growing towns onto taxation. Strategy - clear out the Japanese in the south and generally cause unrest amongst the northern civilizations. Also avoid being attacked by Carthage and India which would be very inconvenient.

IBT : Hannibal tries to kicks us out, but we sign an ROP and an alliance vs. france & Japan for wool. He marches his bows and mercs south of leptis. England and France sign peace (just you wait, Lizzie !). T Yokohama is captured.

640AD : We sign an ROP with the Mongols so we can get troops We build an embassy with Ghandi, and sign him up against Japan and France. He will do it just for the pleasure of it too ! Now he likes us ! Ok, Tokyo! Taken without loss, plus 3 free slaves. We march on Japan, hoping India will distract the Japanese troops in the north.

IBT : Hannibal keeps marching troops around. I think he is heading for Japan. N Japan 8 was unguarded and lo ! a samuri abandoned his settler and attacked it ! Never thought I'd see that.

650AD : Izumo captured for 1 Knight lost. Bonus - it has a barracks, market and aqaduct intact ! The offending Samuri is sent to his ancestors. Nothing to rush yet.

IBT : Hannibal keeps marching troops around - there's lots of mercs in Oea now. Our cunning plan worked - Japan is distracted by India ! Hahahahaha !

660AD : Troops move towards Kagoshima we will turn the south green soon enough. One temple rushed.

IBT : Hannibal's troops must be exhausted with all that aimless marching ! Japan is torn between us and India, and marches backwards and forwards to some mysterious and probably not very sensible master plan of theirs.

670AD : A few Horse upgrades and 4 temples & 1 library rushed. Recapture of Yokohama failed - 1 Knight lost. Kagoshima holds out (2 Knights lost). Not a good look all round. At least the north is reasonably secure.

IBT : Hannibal's troops march on. Japan seems much more interested in India than us.

680AD : Kagoshima captured - 1 Knight lost & one redlined. 5 new slaves for the empire ! We mine the Edo cow to speed the FP - 12 turns now.

IBT : Hannibal does more marching. Oops - TL Matsuyama is razed - I didn't notice a Japanese unit was in reach.

690AD : The bane of TL Matsuyama is dealt with. Just shuffling troops for now, and some more markets & courts started around Entremont. Ghandi seems to be keeping Japan busy.

IBT : Carthage and Japan sign peace ! Treachery ! The Americans build Smiths and they and the French are in the Industrial Age !

700AD : We pick off some Japanese troops near Lahore and lo ! Cunobelinus appears. A few more temples rushed. Another Japanese unit surprises me, this time beside undefended Old Isca. Curses. Too many cities to check and I'm getting tired.

IBT : The Vikings make peace with the French. Whoops - Old Isca is captured. There goes the Temple, but at least it wasn't razed. The French build Shakespeares.

710AD : Old Isca recaptured. Cunobelinus raises an army. Yokohama finally recaptured. The south Japanese towns are proving difficult.

IBT : The Indians and Japanese are having a jolly good punchup in the hills near Dehli and Bombay (now their respective capitals). Hannibal marches around some more.

720AD : A few more temples rushed. Still can't quite dislodge the Japanese in the south.

IBT : Hannibal may be marching north towards France. Going to take him a long time ! Japan wants peace - sorrrrrry, nope. A French caravel appears off the coast of old Iroquoia. Will we finally meet Joan in battle ? A few Knights move up just in case.

730AD : Two horses finally took Sapporo ! We move slowly towards the two remaining southern Japanese cities and creep up on Delhi (Japan's capital). Wonder of wonders - there's an American Cavalry in Japan near Lahore ! What the ... are they fighting Japan as well ? A few more Temple & Library rushes (and one Cathedral).

IBT : Oh dear. Carthage and France have made peace. France did have sinister intent - they landed a massive invasion force of one (count 'em that's 1) cavalry. Shanghai rioted with in spite of having 7 luxuries and one horse MP !

740AD : Poop. We cannot reach the French Cav before it will reach Niagra Falls ... unless ... we put some workers in the way ! Let's try it. Delhi remains intact ... for now.

Summary and Gratuitous advice : Izumo and Near Izumo can rush Temples next turn. We get the New Edo FP in 6 turns, then some markets could be rushed around it. A few workers could be sacrificed perhaps ? We are running a small surplus of 33 gpt - this should improve when the FP kicks in but will drop initially when the last round of rushed culture buildings start up. Perhaps a few remote cities should swap to taxation for a while ?

Watch out for that French Cav near Niagra Falls, as well those suspicious American cavs near TL Madras. We cannot ally America against France as we have no embassy with them (and cannot afford one). perhaps if we gift them a luxury they will rethink a possible attack ? They are not attacking Japan so why are they there ??

We have 136 cities, 437 culture per turn and 16662 culture to date.

Over to you Madame Captain Mathilda !

The 740AD Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD0740_01.SAV)

Great ploy to get the Indians involved, Peanut! (I missed that one; it might have saved Lahore.) There is no love lost between them and Japan. :D (Us either, for that matter.)

I haven't seen the save yet, but it sounds like the Japan core is now ours (or almost all ours.) And some of the AI are in the IA. Babylon is the only Scientific civ; it sounded like they haven't made it to the IA yet. We could probably sign peace with France any time now; we slowed them down enough to get ourselves positioned in the South. For the next war, we might have Cavalry!

Don't take Carthage yet! Ideally, the AI will already have researched Communism for us, so we want to wait a while. Anyone want to take a stab at what the research rate might be and how long we should wait?

Alright Mathilda, you're up!

I've got it, will play tomorrow afternoon.

I'd say if we hear of the AI starting Uni Suff we would probably be safe to "step into the elevator" and get Communism. As we know they will go after the Nationalism branch like mad first most likely, so if they start to go somewhere else we should be ok.

Oops - one bit of gratuitious advice I forgot to add. We have a lot of Hannibals troops wandering through and we are no longer allied with them. Might be a good idea to sign them up against Japan ? Peace with France may be a good idea soon so we can regroup and rearm as they and America can muster cavalry. Should we visit Lizzie's library soon ?

I've loaded the game, and here's a couple things I've come across.

America is at war with England. Chances are that Cav and Knight are coming South to take Carthage, which we don't want. Best thing to do is to block them; maybe with excess workers strung between cities. It would be kind of fun to set up a center block, and open a hole on the right, then on the left, etc, watching them go back and forth. More effectively, 3 units can make a solid block stretching SW from T Sabratha. I think they know their way is blocked and should head back immediately, if this block is set up.

Another interesting thing. The Vikings will give us Gunpowder for Iron. (Or maybe a combination of Luxuries.) Might not be a bad idea to keep getting Techs when we can to get us closer to Mil Tradition, just in case it takes a While to get Communism (hopefully when we capture Carthage).

We'll probably want to sign peace with Joan soon. However, we do have a couple alliances against France; probably be best to wait until they expire (or the other party breaks the alliance) before signing peace.

Carthage units appear to be heading North. Since we also have an ROP with them, we don't have too much choice but to watch them move along.

Regarding Carthage and America, we do have extra Luxuries - I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to trade or gift them a Luxury or two, just to keep them more likely to be peaceful. Abe also doesn't have Horses, so I bet he'd pay a lot for that resource!

Looking at the IndAge Tech chart, Communism only requires Nationalism to research it. The AI loves Nationalism, so they'll probably research that one first, followed by either Steam Power or Communism. If they research Communism, they'll do Steam Power next. If they research Steam Power first, they might go to Industrialism then Espionage. Chances are they will go for Communism, the new government Tech, quickly.

So, let's wait about 50 turns (I'm counting 20-25 turns per Tech, might be less) from the middle of Peanut's turn set. That's roughly 1200 AD. When able to, we will trade for Abe's or Joan's WM. If we see Railroads start to show up, note that turn. If we haven't seen Railroads pop up during that time, chances are good that they went Nationalism - Communism, and it's about time to take Carthage. That's my suggestion at this time; also, keep an eye out for Riflemen, which might give you an idea about when Nationalism was learned.

Good Luck, Mathilda!

We have 10 turns left on an alliance with India against both the French and the Japanese, so no peacedeals coming up atm.
Oh, and nine trurns with Mongols against Japan.

Trade maps with Gandhi while we're here - he'll pay us all of his 21 gold as well, bless him.
Sell maps to Babs and Vikings. Vikings will also buy some dyes for 74g + 1gpt - oh hang on, he'll do 68 + 2gpt - I'll take that. Let's see if he'll buy something else as well. Ragnar seems to be the only one with any money round here. Yeah - wool for 5gpt - we are in business :)

This means we can afford the embassy with the Americans. (we now have 154g and it costs 84)
Here's what Washington looked like:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/washington_for_peanuts.jpg
Hesitate a little because of the advise to sign peace with France soon, but because of the excisting deals : Sign America against France for horses.

We are building 14 settlers and 5 military.
Currently our mighty world conquering army consists of
2 warriors
12 horseman
13 knights
1 catapult
2 armys
7 Gallic swords and 9 medieval infantry

(5 galleys, 4 settlers and 56 workers)

I have to say, I'd prefer a bit more military.

Courthouse builds in ring two get swapped over to knights, as are a couple of settler builds.

Looking good against the Japanese.

Rushes:
TL Segusio - cath for 3 lives
TL Nagoya - ditto
TL Niagra Falls - the same (no, we are not going to lose it to the French!)
TL Kyoto - same again
T Deva2 - library for two lives
T Noviomagus library for three lives
Izumo temple for two lives
Kagoshima the same

Turn 1 - 750AD
(England and America sign peace treaty. So do France and India. The French cavalry caputres a worker)

Towns that completed cathedrals are set to wealth.
Those that finish temples to libraries.
Those that finish libraries to cathedrals.
T St. Regis riots.-> hire some taxmen.

Upgrade one horse to knight.

Take Shimonosheki, no losses.
It comes with barracks :)
Set the production to temple

Have a go at Delhi - too many spears, no luck.
Sort out the French cavalry with a knight.

Turn 2 760AD
(ibt: I'm not used to this many foreign troops running around my country - very disturbing)

Yokohama riots - change only citizen to taxman.
Can't get Delhi, it will go to the Indians.
Can't get Karachi, try again next time.
nothing much happening really.

T Segusio rushes library for two lives.
Akwesasne the same.
Birmingham Vistas rushes a temple.
Near Izumo the same.
And Near Yokohama


Turn 3 770AD

Capture Karachi.
(Delhi did go to the Indians)
Found three new towns.
Set up a road block to slow down the Carthanginians as they are getting on my nerves.
Rush a library in Toyama.
Monguntiamun the same.
T Sabratha rushes a barracks after 1 turn of building.


Turn 4 - 780AD
(ibt: nothing much, just Carthaginians and Mongols running around)
Those that finish libraries start cathedrals, those that have barracks -> knights.

Troops are ready to take the Japanese capital Bizen (which is all they have left), but we still have five turns left on an alliance with the Mongols against them, so we just sit and wait for now.

I'm getting troops ready for attacking the Mongols again.
Found one town.

Rushes:
Rebuilt on the ruins gets a T.
Yet Aother city the same. (These placenames have Peanut written all over them)
TL Nanking gets a cathedral.

In checking the trades, it seems that our trade route to the Americans has been cut :confused:
How did that happen? This might cause problems, I bet they'll not be happy if they don't get the horses, they're paying for.
Gift Carthage some furs - It would be nice to have someone happy.
Deal with Scandinavia - we give them iron for gunpowder, wm + 20 gold.
Carthage has chemistry, but no saltpeter.
Ragnar hasn't got saltpeter either, but he seems to be already giving us all the gpt he's got, since he won't pay us in gold for ours. He'd give up Republic for it, as if!


Turn 5 - 790AD
(Japan and India sign peace. The French land another ONE cavalry in the same place as before.
Mongols sign peace with Japan :) )
Celts 5 temple -> library
Yet another city the same, and Japan 7
and Rebuilt on the Ruins

Destroy Japan's capital, but they have a settler somewhere.
Won't give anything worthwhile in a peacedeal either, so I'm just leaving it for now. We are still at war with the remains of Japan.
Our elite knight sorts out the pink boy on horse without a scratch.

Nagasaki rushes cathedral.
St Regis a library.
TLC Nemaus rushes a marketplace.

------Important about Carthage - There are at least 20 NumMercs around Iol.


Turn 6 -800AD

Forbidden palace is finally ready - gpt goes from +23 to +74 :)

Declare war on the Mongols.
Clean up there losoe troops that were running around our country, get into position to take towns next turn (hopefully)

Darhan rushes a cathedral
Chinan's twin - temple
Viking Vistas - temple
Mountain vista - temple

Turn 7 810AD

The Mongols kill most of our troops near Tsetserleg - not nice.

Entremont Marketplace -> barracks
Temple towns -> libraries.


Tabriz captured
Kazan captured
Tstserleg and Karrakorum still stand.
Switch Cattaraugus to barracks to be able to upgrade some horsemen.
Quite a pile of Vikings spotted north of Karachi.

Rutupiae rushes library
Hovd as well and Nara
Just sittin' an' smoking can now smoke whatever they are smoking in their brand new temple.
Old Isca joins the same party.

Turn 8 - 820AD

Karakorum captured - comes with no improvements :(
Tsetserleg captured :)
Horses upgraded.

Turn 9 - 830AD
Karakorum rushes Temple.
ROP with Carthage is over.
French frigates seen in the north.

Kaifeng rushes cath
Tyendenaga the same
Durocort 2 gets a library
Lzoux join the litetrati
- and Isca
Temples go to Little Yokohama, Chinan's Triplet, Even Littler Izumo and Tsetserleg


Turn 10- 840AD

Temple ones to libaries, library ones to caths, cath ones to colosseums - can be changed to something else if needed.

Rushed temple for Hilltop Vistas.
There's a galley finishing in TL Richborough 2, could go and meet the Japanese galley- where the settler probably is.

There's Carthaginian troops in our area, I haven't asked them to leave yet, as it gives the ..or declare war option, and I want to leave that to the next player to decide.

Mongolia still has three towns left, mainly due to wading through forests.
They also have two pike-settler sets on teh mountains east of Tsetserleg.
The Viking pile turned back, gues they didn't feel comfortable this far south after all.

Deal with Americans wm + wool for their wm and 3 gpt.
Still no railways that I could see.

The 840AD save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD0840_01.SAV)

KB, is it you?

Haven't looked at the save yet, but the turn log suggest that both Japan and Mongols are almost out of the game.
Great job Mathilda.

Who is our next victim? India comes into mind.

Abe is doing 30% research which mean very low tech race (I am guessing that America will fall into anarchy pretty soon).

Team tao gaining much more culture than we do, I think they are our strongest opponents.

Perhaps they built or captured the pyramids.
Perhaps we should have done so

Mathilda - great progress ! I think that Carthage should be our next target as we have them penned in on both sides, and they could be inconvenient if they ally against us. India will be easier to fend off if at some stage they get silly and decide to attack.

PS we can't have dull and boring town names, now can we ? BTW "Sitting and smokin'" is sitting on incense, in case you wondered.

Nice set of turns, Mathilda! And very vigorous trading, with good result! Good point about Iol; is there a valuable resource there?

I just checked the save file. Interesting ... France is in Anarchy! Are they devolving down to Monarchy, perhaps? Or maybe they've discovered Communism? Next player will have to check F3 and keep any eye on Joan.

At 30% Research, Abe isn't going to learn anything for a long, long, loooonnnng time.

In our Game, France built the Pyramids in Paris. I don't see any way we could have captured them!! (Or realistically, to build them.)

I think I'd like to link up our East and West Forces first. So, I'd suggest taking a few more bites out of Carthage, maybe exile him to his northern peninsula. Then we can head North to India with our main forces, if desired.

Let's see, we're up to 21,690 culture. According to Mapstat we're only halfway to Domination limit, so we can capture India for sure.

I believe K-B is next!

Looks like some more solid progress. I've got it, will keep an eye out for Communism and will look to trim Carthago.

Preturn- We look alright.

IT- Babylon and France sign peace.

T1 850

Nothing much to do, gather forces together.

IT- Carthage starts Newtons.

T2 860

We capture Ta-Tu. Lots of worker actions.

IT- zzz

T3 870

We capture Almarikh. Rush a few temples.

IT- zzz

T4 880

Japan lands a longbow next to an undefended city, so we make peace.

IT- zzz

T5 890

Nothing too interesting. Rush culture where possible.

IT- zzz

T6 900

We take Mandalgovi. Mongols have no cities left. I whipped a lot of culture.

IT-

T7 910

Cpt last turn was 586. It is now 644. I whack a Mongol settler pair, but they don't die. They must have another somewhere.

IT- zzz

T8 920

Our forces are strengthing, nearly ready for Carthage.

IT- French complete Newton's. All our damn culture pays off, the Viking city of Jonkoping flips to us. It was size 6 too! I greet our new citizens by killing off half of them to rush a temple :D

T9 930

I decide it is time for Carthage to give their land to us. They disagree, so war is on. Or not. We have 5 turns left on a furs deal. Ooops. Nevermind. Will continue build up, next player can have fun.

IT- zzz

T10 940

Whip more culture, pile up more knights.

IT- zzz

T11 950

We have a nice stack built up now. Carthage should quickly crumble when the time comes.



Summary


We are up +711 cpt now, compared to the upper 500 range when I started. We have gained a few new cities, but mostly my tunrns focused on culture and military build up. Next set can shift towards the acquistion of Carthaginian territory and more culture there.

Very nice about the Viking city - I bet them citizens were happy to sacrifice their lives for their new master's empire :)

Looks good, KB. I notice that the little 3-tile ice island off the south coast is occupied by a Japanese settler&spear, a Mongol settler&pike and a Carthaginian city. I suggest that when we overrun Carthage, we just leave them there gawking at each other with nowhere to go.

Still no rails in France or America, and France at war is sitting in Republic (not Communism) so we probably should not pop the Library just yet.

Looking at the graphs we need to pile on more culture per turn to create a winning lead. We are only just keeping up with the pack - in our group, RowandLive are just shading us and Tao has a higher cpt than us.

Just as KB did, we need to rush culture as fast as we can. This probably means making as many gpt trades for luxuries as possible to pay the maintenance, so no deal-breaking I suppose.

Mailman - your turn.

nice culture build up.
I think I am next. I will start playing in 12 hours (unless I will be corrected).
Thanks for the setup of forces near carthage, I will try to use them well.

I just got a chance to look at the save. Good set up in Carthage, K-B! And nice increase in culture.

In general I think the University gives us a better culture kick than the Colosseum. You get 4 cpt vs 2 cpt for the same maintenance cost. And you spend 50 shields/culture with University vs 60 Shields/culture with Colosseum. However, this game is not usual. I estimate that we have no more than 80-85 turns left in the game, and it's probably better to get the lower cultural value of the Colosseum earlier than the higher value of the University later.

We definitely want to focus on building more Settlers. Each new city with a +2 food growth rate can get us 2 more culture in just 10 turns! Don't neglect building Settlers.

I noticed that Veraluminum is building an Aquaduct. I don't recommend that; there's no real space to grow past size 6 anyway. I'd suggest converting those shields to Cathdral, which it still needs.

We have 3 more turns left in a Furs deal with Carthage. We should let that expire before we declare on Hannible.

We have only 1 Alliance against France (with America) and it has already expired. We should cancel that and sign a peace treaty with Joan.

Just checking; Abe doesn't have Saltpeter and will pay 61 gpt to get it. And the F4 advisor tells me that Abe has Riflemen, so Nationalism is out among the AI.

Good Luck, MailMan!

BTW, Spoiler1 is up, but we need to post an entry. Any Volunteers?

Just checking; Abe doesn't have Saltpeter and will pay 61 gpt to get it. And the F4 advisor tells me that Abe has Riflemen, so Nationalism is out among the AI. Perhaps we should get TGL now and research communism for ourselves?

Perhaps we should get TGL now and research communism for ourselves?
To me that sounds like a good idea. Then we could be building universities instead of colosseums.

Double check to be sure France has Riflemen (The F4 advisor might let that slip). We could probably learn Communism in 20 turns or so; maybe less if France and America learn it first. I'd rather get Communism (and Steam Power) for free, but maybe it's time.

If Nationalism is indeed out, Commy is not far behind. I'd advocate waiting just abit longer, perhaps until the end of the next turn set. Taking it now certainly does have its advantages. It really is kind of a win-win situation. Just with one we may not gain quite as much.

In general, I agree with you K-B; if we can get Communism for free in a few turns, that's a good thing. We can't cash rush anything in either government, so our money is good for just a few things: upgrade Military, fund research, or trade with the AI. We need two of the AI to get Communism before we get it for free; Abe is at war with France, so assuming Joan has or will learn it, is Abe (or Hammurabi) likely to get it from Joan? Maybe not for a while. So it might be better to bite the bullet (assuming both Abe and Joan and/or Hammurabi know Nationalism), capture the Great Library, and if we get Communism for free, too - great. If we don't, we might research it faster than if we wait. And if someone (and only one) gets it, we have some research value to reduce the cost.

I can go either way. Once someone has verified that at least 2 AI know Nationalism, I'd probably take the Great Library then.

Quick update after 6 turns:
signed peace with france, traded with Abe for 97gpt.
had a short war with carth. capture 6 cities lost 1 and gained 2 in peace (bad RNG shorten the war).
one of the above cities was TGL city which flipped from england to carthage.
I decided to gift it back to england.
both Abe and Joan has riflemans but I do not see any signs to communism.
our cpt is now over 840.

I will continue playing tonight.

Sounds good so far !

BTW, Spoiler1 is up, but we need to post an entry. Any Volunteers? I can write a spoiler (probably tommorow).
due to my poor english, somebody will have to review it before posting

Thanks, MailMan! You communicate very well in English; when you have the write-up, post it here and we'll review it prior to submittal.

Your turn set does sound good so far. I don't think either Joan nor Abe would revolt to Communism unless in a losing War (not their preferred Government), so we'd probably never see a sign of Communism from them. I think you can pop TGL anytime, if you're so inclined. Culture/turn will continue to increase even if we build no more buildings; every cultural building's value doubles after 1000 years of life, so all the early Temples, Libraries, etc, are doubling in culture/turn value. Of course we should keep building new culture!

Turn log

preturn:
status: 156 cities, culture: 28444 +711cpt
sign peacw with france. gain 3gpt + WM in the process.
sell saltpeter + furs + incense to america for 97gpt
set production to some settlers whereever I can (without lossing shields)
rush 2 libraries and 4 cathedrals
send our 3 horses to towns with barracks to get upgraded


1 960AD
rush cathedral
rush library
build embacy in france. their university is already producing souble culture.
They are building cavalry. paris itself currently riots.
garrison: 5 rifelman + 1 musketier. 33cpt. sliders ar 40 / 40 / 20
They are suffering great deal of WW: 7 happy faces from sliders + 5 lux (no marketplace) + 1 entertainment gives: 1 happy + 8 content + 2 unhappy.
found a city.


2 970AD
found a city
rush 4 temples.
set up forces for invasion to carth.

3 980AD
rush 4 libraries
rush 1 cathedral
DOW on carthage and move forces
kill 2 merc + bow

IBT 1 carth MI failed to kill one of our knights.

3. 990AD (oops - just noticed I played an extra turn)
rush 2 libraries
found a city
the first strike resulted in 4 captured cities including carth capital for a lose of 3 knights
we also gained a leader from elite GS.

IBT - lost a city gaurded with 2 healty knights - the city had a temple but carth razed it. lost the wonded elite GS.
carth former capital with TGL flipped from the english to carth.

4 1000AD
rush 2 temples
rush colosseum
rush library
rush 3 cathedrals
heal troops
found a city
took TGL city and gift it back to england.

IBT - lost 2 knights.

5 1010AD
lost 1 knight
rush 5 libraries
rush 3 cathedrals
rush 2 temples
found a city


IBT lost some forces to counter attacks

6 1020AD
found 2 cities
capture a city
since I had a realy bad lack with the RNG I decided to sign peace with carthage for 2 cities.
rush library
rush 2 cathedrals

7 1030AD
rush 4 libraries
rush temple
rush cathedral
found a city
sign peace with mongols. they gave us 88g for this (we could have got republic, but I rather have 88g)
sold iron + furs + spices for 48gpt to the vikings.
start to move forces for future war on India.

8 1040AD
found a city
rush 2 libraries
rush cathedral

9 1050AD
rush 5 cathedrals
rush 2 libraries
found a city

10 1060AD
rush 2 temples
rush library
found a city


Summery
status: 173 cities, culture: 37464 +937cpt
I rushed a lot of culture buildings.
our gold reserve are: 1530 + 85gpt at 100% commerce. we are getting 158gpt in trade deals, so basically we live on the kindess of others.
Regarding the great library, I decided to be sure the AI has communism. The decision is mainly due to our inability to research anything in less than 40 turns.
America just gone to Anarchy, if they come out with communism I think it is safe to switch (france should be more advanced than america since they got to IA first).
Our forces should be in position to attack india in about 2-3 turns.

The SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD1060_01.SAV)

Below is the first spoiler.
Please review
--------------------------

early expansion
capital - settled NW/NW it was a dedicated settler factory for a long long time
focused on expansion first than culture
A lot of barbs activety. most of them handled by the AI.
In 2110BC the capital produce first settler
We had few workers at the start, but as the game progressed we put some more importance on it.
We set up 3/6 RCP rings
While our core cities produced settlers/military our corrupted cities pop rushed culture buildings.

Research
Started minimum on mysticism
Bought pottery for handful of gold from Mongols and sell it to chain
In 2070BC civ_steve produce magnificent trading round that gave us alphabet, masonry, bronze working, the wheel + contact with iroq.
Full speed on math but we lost the math gambit everybody already had it by the time we learnt it.
Another wonderful trading session by civ_steve resulted in the entire world map, 6 new techs (IrW, Writing and HBackRide, and also MapMaking, Code-of-Laws and Philosophy), contact with Babylon with the negligible cost of 12gpt.
Start full speed on lit.
Gain all AA techs in peace deals
0 research from that point. all the gained techs made at gun point.

Contacts
* 3150BC china. up 1 tech
* 3050BC Mongols. up 5 techs.
* 2150CB our contact was sold to India and Carthage
* 2070BC Iroquois
* 1910 Japan (already took Delhi from India at this point)
* 1475 all the rest

1000BC status:
10 cities, 23 pop
Knows all AI civs. 5 techs left in AA (3 required).
1 settler, 9 workers, 17 warriors, 1 archer, 1 eqWorker.
3 granaries, 3 barracks, 1 temple.
150 culture.
618g

Warfare
We started gathering cash and producing warriors for future upgrade to Gallic swordsmen.
in 710BC we upgraded 12 warriors to GS
in 670BC we declare war on China, capture a city and our golden age started.
we continued to connect/disconnect the iron to produce warriors for a long long time.
In the middle of the war with China Japan declared on us and allied the Mongols against us.
In 470BC we sign peace with China and get all the techs we need to advance to a new age.
The first war was very successful we got several cities by force and few more in peace deal. afterwards china was crippled (2 cities).
after few more turns we sign peace with the Mongols and start focusing our forces against Japan.
In 390BC we land 4 GS near the closest city of Japan to take that city in 370BC.
12 more SG joined them in 350BC.
In 330BC Carthage decided to declare war on us without any reason.
our war in Japan progressed nicely during the golden age, and slowed down a bit afterwards.
We signed peace with both Carthage and Japan in 310BC
We took from Japan 7 cities + 1 in peace deal. we got another city in peace deal from Carthage.
Our forces from the war with Japan rolled over to fight in iroq land.

from that point we alternated our wars between our neighbors pushing our borders further and further, gaining many cities in the process.

On 310AD we decided that France is too strong and getting stronger. We declared war on them, establish embassies in London and Babylon and ally them against France.
France allied some of our neighbors against us which fuelled the war fire.
the war in France slowed the tech race way down. they even moved from democracy to republic.
France however got the better of her neighbors and reduced England to 1 remote city.

In our local wars we capture Carthage's capital which held the great library. we immediately gifted the city to England (to use TGL later on).
Later on that city flipped back to cartage but since we were at war with Carthage at the same time we captured it and gave it back to England.

We are now in control of most of the southern hemisphere (our team captain should be pleased at that)

regarding culture flips - we had only 1 Viking city flipping to us!

AA Wonders (we did not built any wonders ourselves)
1375BC - Oracle - Babylon
1200BC - Pyramids - France
1175BC - Colossus - France
950BC - Lighthouse - England
825BC - Wall - France
510BC - TGL - Carthage
510BC - HG - America

To answer mad-bax questions:
1. Which Civs were strongest and how will it affect the game later.by far the strongest civ was France. we handled Japan early on so they were not such a big threat to us.

2. Which wonders are most important and any attempts to own them.The most important wonder (the pyramids) was built by France, so there were no way to get it.
The great library which is also very important to us was built by Carthage. we now have it stored by the lovely English people to be used later on.

3. Overall Strategy to win the game.expansion was the first consideration. we need plenty of room to hold all of our cities.
we first expanded nicely and then by force. we connected/disconnected the iron to produce GS faster.
all of corrupted cities was used to breed in order to rush culture buildings.

Looks good, both the turns and the spoiler :goodjob:

Great Job Mailman! :goodjob: (both for the turnset and the Spoiler write-up) On the score graph we've taken a dip (lot's of pop-rushing), but on the culture graph we've upticked a bit. Still neck and neck with RowandLive and Smackster; Jeffelammer is definitely leading us, and Offa looks to be far ahead. When this is over, it'll be interesting to see their tactics.

Only edit I think should definitely be made is to the 2nd line under the Research category: "Bought pottery for handful of gold from Mongols and sell it to chain" , change "chain" to "China" just to be clear. Otherwise, I think it's quite good. (And you're embarrassing me :blush: )

This map is a bit larger than the standard 100x100 map; Mad-Bax stated that 100K culture victory is the required victory condition, but I wonder if it might be a tad bit higher due to the larger map size. I guess we'll find out.

If we do indeed only need 100K culture, then at our current rate we are only 63 turns from Victory. After future growth and culture doubling, probably 50-55 turns or so, so somewhere around 1400 to 1425. :)

Things to look out for: Carthage (the English city) being reduced to 1 citizen; it would autoraze when captured then. And France's culture being more than 50,000; which I don't think they'll get to. Either of those would put a damper on our game ... if they happened. With the luxuries and resources we have, we should be able to keep trades going and the other powerful civs happy with us, if we want.

I guess I'm next. I've got it!

Well played turnset Mailman - you certainly delivered a fine result. Good juggling with the Library as well. It's good being master of the Southern Hemisphere - lets start civilizing that barbarian uncultured northern hemisphere as well.

Strategy from here - I guess it's a bit optimistic to think of taking the GL, and then marshalling an international alliance to take Paris and the Pyramids with a massive cavalry charge under Comrade Brennus. But it may be more fun than just expanding & build

BTW Carthage should not autoraze as it has a great wonder.

I have posted the spoiler.

Sorry this is taking so long. The Weekend has been busy and it's been difficult to break away.

Abe went to Monarchy once he came out of Anarchy. He's still at war with Joan (who is a Republic). I decide to grab the Great Library at that point, and we got up to Nationalism. Currently deciding on best path to research to Communism, anticipating a gpt trade with Joan at the end. I think we'll get it in 10-12 turns, depending on trades I'm able to make.

Very sorry for the delay. We had a bit of a family crisis Sunday, and I've just gotten the game to a reasonable stopping place. The Log:

Turn 0, 1060 AD
Very cool! We appear to have about twice France's culture, but are gaining culture at a much more rapid rate, so that shouldn't be an issue. I see railroads popping up in France, so Joan has Steam Power. Abe is in Anarchy, and is at war with Joan, so if he should pop out as Communistic, it will be time to get TGL.

There's that one island to our South with a Carthage city and Mongol and Japanese Settlers. In case that city flips to us, I'll station a Galley and a couple of Knights down there, ready to transport over and finish off the other two civs. For that to happen (if we want it to), we need to be sure that Carthage city doesn't become the capital.

I'm off

(IBT not much, lots of movement by Carthage)

Turn 1, 1070 AD
Send Galley to South; 1 newly made Knight is stationed in the South
Send Galley to occupied China; There's a Japanese LongB on an island with one of our cities, so I want to counter it.
Knights converging on India
Abe still in Anarchy
Rush 1 Temple and 2 Libraries

Turn 2, 1080 AD
Continue with Force convergance on India
Entremont finishes a Cathedral; back to a Settler

Turn 3, 1090 AD
Rush a couple of Harbors
Abe has become a Monarchy. Hmm, assuming France knows Communnism, Abe is at war with Joan so Communism might still be many turns away for him. Babylon is still Medieval; Carthage is IA, but we've taken several bites out of him. England and Vikings are severely reduced. Iroqouis and China are Gone, and Japan and Mongols effectively gone. I think it's time for the Great Library; if Abe knows Communism, great; if he doesn't but France does, we'll have to research/learn it from them.
Declare on England and take Carthage (and the Great Library)

Turn 4, 1100 AD
Great Library takes effect. We learn all remaining Medieval Techs (except Music Theory for some weird reason), and Nationalism.
Looking for more gold, we trade Horses to Carthage for 15 gpt.
Joan knows Communism. At 0% research with 1 Scientist, we are banking 100 gpt, and have 1882 Gold in the Treasury (and Communism in 40 turns). We can use Joan's knowledge of Communism, only if we put a real effort into learning Comm. At 100% research, we learn it in 11 turns, with -304 gpt (so we can only sustain 6 turns, about 54% of the research cost.) In between, 60% research rate gets us Comm in 15 turns at -201 gpt (about 9 turns for about 60% of the research). Abe is giving us 97 gpt for 3 resources, which expires in 5 turns, so a potential crisis point is coming up. Set research to 100%
Another trade: Vikings will trade us 120 Gold and 43 gpt for Nationalism; so we have 2002 gold, -261 gpt (7 turns, unless Abe or Ragnor renege.)
Gift a Luxury to Joan, to keep her happy with us.
We now know MilTrad, but can't afford to upgrade! So insist he withdraw troops, and he declares on us!
Take Pikeman/Settler pair, and we have two more workers
Capture Delhi (no losses vs 1 Pike, 1 Spear), advance towards Bombay
Rush 3 Cathedrals, 1 Library, 2 Temples
Make some scientists in lots of cities (but turns for Comm doesn't drop; currently shows 402 science/turn)

(IBT WE loses while attacking one of our Knights near Bombay)

Turn 5, 1110 AD
Capture Bombay, lose 2 Knights taking 1 Pike and 2 Spears, 5 Knights advance to Bangalore outskirts
Rush 1 Temple, 3 Libraries, 4 Cathedrals

(IBT our Knights near Bangalore are 1-2 vs WE's
Abe wants a Trade Embargo vs the Mongols - OK)

Turn 6, 1120 AD
Sign ROP with Vikings
France doesn't want to trade Communism - like, at all
Take care of 2 Wounded WE's, and regroup near Bangalore
4 Knights on outskirts of Lahore

(IBT Indian LongBows engage, killing 1 Knight and retreating a 2nd)

Turn 7, 1130 AD
Take Lahore, no losses vs 1 Spear and 1 LongBow
Kill Eng LongBow adjacent to Lahore
Take out 2 wounded Indian LongBows
Sign ROP with France (can we butter her up a bit, maybe?)
Rush 1 Library and 7 Temples

Turn 8, 1140 AD
Gather force near Bang
Rush 2 Temples, 1 Library and 2 Cathedrals

Turn 9, 1150 AD
Bangalore falls with no losses vs 1 Pike, 1 WE and 1 Spear
Jaipur falls with 1 Knight loss vs 1 Pike and 1 Spear
Army takes out WE escorting Settler
Sign Peace with England for 25 Gold
97 gpt deal with Abe is up, but he hasn't canceled yet
Rushed 2 each of Temple, Library and 4 of Cathedral

(IBT Abe cancels deal; we reinstate the trade, but only get 78 gpt now
France gives us a Peace renewal deal - Take it or we're at war; we take it
Hmm, I don't get the message "They'll never accept this deal" when I offer 1 gpt for Communism, maybe she'll deal now!)

Turn 10, 1160 AD
Back to "They'll never accept this deal" again
Gift Babylon to IA, they get Steam Power
Trade Nationalism for Steam Power
Cancel a 3gpt from Abe for Wool; redeal for 13 gpt

I'm going to stop here. France wont deal Communism for any 20 turn deal we have. I've set Research to 40%, which gives us 338 Gold in the treasury, -15 gpt and 13 turns to learn Communism. If Peanut or Mathilda can get a deal, great; otherwise, this is sustainable.

By gifting Babylon to IA, we got Steam Power. (And we have 3 coal sources.) Possible trades exist with Vikings, Abe and Carthage; I'd wait until a deal expires because there's not much cash available.

Only ones we're at war with right now is India. I've not moved any units, so the entire movement portion of 1160 AD is yet to be done, nor have I rushed any new cultural buildings.

Current culture is 47201, growing at 1040 per turn, as of the last turn.

End of Turnlog

The Great Library is popped. India is nearly done. Peace with everyone else. Communism is roughly 2/3 researched, but we're low on cash, so the last 1/3 will take a While (13 turns at 40% per the save). It would be great if someone else learned it; our cost would drop a lot! Not sure if we need anymore warfare at this point; maybe finish India off, and if the Southern Carthage island city flips to us, we have a shot at doing in Mongols and Japan. Probably best to just cruise to a conclusion; building as many cities as we can scrunch in and rushing as much culture as possible; revolting to Communism when the time comes to see what that does.

Over to you Peanut!

1160 AD Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD1160_01.SAV)

Got it. Well played CS. We seem to be in a good position - at 1040 cpt we are doing well in our (non-conquests) group. Might be a day or so before I can tackle it unless I am lucky and an opportunity appears.

From the sounds of it, it seems like we may have trashed our rep somehow. If they will "never accept this deal", it must mean that they won't take any amount fo gpt from us, other wise it would be "insulted by this deal". The reason France momentarily would go to insulted over gpt was the fact that you were renegotiating peace. For whatever reason the AI will ignore your trashed rep during peace deals. We must have screwed up a gpt deal at some point. Doesn't seem big at this point though, we will have Commy soon enough.

Good turns, btw :goodjob:

Thanks! Yes, there was mention about what we did to Japan, so we must have broken a deal with Tokunaga somewhere. Too bad, cause we could be Communistic now. (Although it is hard to keep track of what deals are in place, player to player.)

At just over 1000 cpt, we have a maximum of 53 turns to go. With rushing we've been able to add at least 100 culture per turn per 10 turn set; not sure what Communism will do to that growth rate, but we're on track to finish in 40-45 turns.

Peanut: I still have a bunch of Scientists (30 or so) working in cities building Colosseum or Cathedral; you may want to convert them back to the fields.

... or just convert them into "cultural" bricks and mortar ... sadly, sometimes you can get up to 3 "industrial accidents" when building a Cathedral.

Yup! I think the OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration for non-US) inspectors are getting a lot of non-reported income in our empire! ;) In the words of Lord Farquad (our 4 year old loves to watch Shrek): "Yes, some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."

1160AD : Looks good, CS. We kick the scientists out of their labs and back to the fields to breed more citizens ... um ... er ... or something like that. Brennus Peanutticus, the terrible new despot, institutes a wave of oppression in his insane quest for more culture. Many citizens die in the building frenzy. Ghandi won't talk peace so we continue our advance.

IBT : The Americans capture Hyderabad and Calcutta. Ghandi brings Babylon into a trade embargo against us. Looks like we can build the Iron Works ... but where ? Ah ... at Cataractonium ! Whoopee !

1170AD : Boring. No Indians in reach, nobody wants to make any decent trades. Nothing to rush, either.

IBT : More boredom. An Indian galley appears off T Allegheny ... hmmm.

1180AD : Move a cav & knight towards the Indian galley. Dull otherwise.

IBT : The galley paddles further on.

1190AD : The welcoming committee awaits the galley. We march towards Punjab. No trades or rushes worth doing.

IBT : Yep. The Indians land an elephant. Laughable, really how poorly the AI manages its sea based invasions.

1200AD : Our cavalry collects some souvenir ivory. We start some rails around Edo and Entremont. India still won't talk, France won't trade. We sell wool & incense to Carthage for 12gpt (we're getting desperate). Somebody (not mentioning any names, Hammurabi) seems to have sold Steam power to Abe and now he is broke !

IBT : Boring.

1210AD : Joan still won't trade and Ghandi won't talk. We rush some buildings to just amuse ourselves and alienate the citizens. Punjab has one of those super-spears that redlines a cavalry and wounds a Knight before folding.

IBT : Joan and Abe call it quits. Maybe now she will trade Communism ? Nothing much else.

1220AD : Ghandi will talk peace at last. He offers Punjab (his only available city) for peace. OK -we would raze it otherwise. Joan still won't talk.

IBT : Oh dear how sad Abe has slaughtered Ghandi. Now we can trade with Babylon again as the embargo is dissolved.

1230AD : We sell Steam to Ragnar for 16gpt+30g. Not much but it staves off poverty, and someone else (eh joan ?) will probably sell it soon anyway as a few AI's know it already.

IBT : Japan wants to talk. They want an MPP and ROP ! The impertinence ! We laugh them out of the palace. WOW ! Calaris has flipped from Carthage to us ! The ice island with the remains of Japan and Mongolia on board ! Hahahahaha <insert maniacal laughter here>.

1240AD : A few rushes. No trades. No war. Just building.

IBT : Nothing interesting.

1250AD : Just more building. Oh yes - and Peanut strikes again - I accidentally clicked the "gift" line instead of the "make me an offer" line and now we have donated Abe 20 turns of coal. Ah well, at least he went from annoyed to polite. I had to do something dopey to keep my record up. Poop. Joan STILL won't trade. A few rushed buildings to finish off.

Summary and Gratuitous advice : Cash dried up a little and we are still 8-10 turns from Communism. There is a settler heading through old Mongolia looking for an empty spot, and two in a galley near TL Hakodate heading for former Indian territory where there is a bit of real estate available. We now have 193 cities, 1148 culture per turn and 57212 culture to date.

Over to you Madame Captain Mathilda ! The 1250AD Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD1250_01.SAV)

Thanks Peanut, excellent timing as my Easter holiday has just started :)

About my accidental "generosity" to Abe :
- he was broke and would not offer anything for coal for the last few turns.
- he went from polite to annoyed once we made peace with India (even though there was no alliance)
- we were in different governments so he naturally doesn't like us
- we now shared a common border (in former India)
- he has lots of cavalry from his french and indian wars
- we could do without being at war with Abe, particularly as he could easily bring in France and Babylon. Especially if we decide to overrun Carthage.
- we have some 40 turns to go to 100K culture and there is not a lot of point getting much bigger, as it takes a while to build up the population in order to rush buildings.

So, keeping Abe happy with coal is probably not such a bad idea.

There. Now I am happier. I must have had a good reason in my subconscious for doing it apart from having poor "mouse aim".

No worries, mate! If he simply wont trade us anything for it, a gift of coal to keep him off our back is fine. We've just about run out of conquests to do (maybe another round against Carthage), and quite frankly any warfare now is probably a distraction at best, and possibly damaging under a worst case situation. Let's keep Joan, Abe, Hammy and Ragnor at least content with us while we culturally cruise to the end!

I think the only trade that was up was with Ragnor - about 48 gpt about 1220 or so. That would put a crimp in our treasury. I made Scientists, but we could just as easily make taxmen, say 1 in about 50 cities or so, that might allow us to reach Communism a few turns earlier (haven't checked the save but that comes to mind.)

Good Luck, Mathilda! We're down to a maximum of 38 turns at this rate!

(edit: now I have looked at the save; we still have the 48 gpt coming in from the Vikings, and other residuals, which we probably want to keep coming; probably the upkeep from the new buildings has reduced our research rate, but what's one to do? Anyway, looks like Elizabeth will pony up her gold and about 10 gpt for Physics; not much else out there!)

Just been looking at the preturn and trying to max the research. I started wondering about selling our barracks at this stage, if we are not planning to do any more fighting. It would save us 23gpt as well as earning a small amount of cash. Any thoughts?

Sounds like a a solid plan to me.

Good thinking, Mathilda! Maybe keep one barracks in the Indian/Iroqouis area in case we need to upgrade our Knights to Cav.

BTW, Carthage has Nationalism, too, so if we did another round against Hannible, we'd be facing Riflemen.

Also, since that ice island city of Carthage has flipped to us, we can ship our Cav/Knight in the nearby continental city and finally take out Japan and the Mongols, if you wish to.

Sorry it took so long.
Everythhing didn't quite go to plan.



Checking for deals:
England will pay 48g + 10gpt + wm for physics - deal!
Carthage 18g + 5gpt + wm for steam power - ok.

Rushed Cathedrals 7
Colosseums 6
Libraries 2
Hired 23 scientists, communism due in 7

After Kaiser Bergers approval sell all the barracks saving 23 gpt.
Sorry Steve, I'd already done this when I saw yours, of course I should have done that.

Turn 1 - 1255AD
The Japanese have been destroyed :confused: did their settler commit suicide or what?

France got communism.

The one shield towns that have library, temple, cathedral and colosseum are set to wealth as I don't see how they could manage to ever finish a university before the game is over.

Rush a Cathedral, 2 Libraries and 3 Temples

Turn 2 - 1260AD

Mongols have been destroyed.

Los Angeles joins our glorious empire.
Communism now due in 4 turns, dropped one turn.
rush a colosseum and 2 cathedrals.

Sell coal to Carthaginians for 7 gpt

Turn 3 - 1265

More industrial accidents - our building sites are definately not safe.
1 cathedral and the newly joined Los Angeles gets a temple as a reward.

Sell spices to France for 10g + 5gpt

Turn 4 - 1270
Heroic Epic ready.
A couple of rushes.

We are six gold short of getting communism in one turn, raise some cash by selling maps.
Communism next turn.

Turn 5 - 1275
Ok, I changed in the big picture - so we are now in communism.
And we are in trouble. -201gpt with both sliders at zero.
Check through all the cities and there is not a single city that would be producing more than one shield. :gripe:
I see no other alternative than change back to despotism.

In the meanwhile sell communism to everybody - Babylonia wants to pay 53g + 33gpt for it - fair enough.

Change all scientists to tax collectors and hired a heap more in other towns just to keep nose above water.

Change back to despotism.

Turn 6 - 1280AD
Back in despotism. Interestingly enough while we were in anarchy, we were making +280gpt, now +105.


Rush 1 colosseum and 7 cathedrals.

America now cautious.
Sell incence to Ragnar for 5gpt.


Turn 7 - 1285AD
Hannibal wants MPP and ROP, we politely decline and give them 10 gold to get a pint on the way out.

Only rushed one cathedral, when a missclick ended the turn in the middle of it all. Sorry.

Turn 8 - 1290AD

Hannibal wants to cancel deal where they were paying us 15gpt for horses. I ask him again nicely and he says, he can pay 14 gpt for them from now on. Something about a sick mother and lots of mouths to feed, even though I thought we'd been helping him reduce that problem.

Rushed 1 Temple, 8 cathedrals, 1 library

Turn 9 - 1295AD

Rushed 4 Colosseums, 13 Cathedrals


Turn 10 - 1300 AD

The Americans declare war on us :eek:
They capture Jönköping (was defended by a musket)

Babylonians are building uni sufferage

Sign France against America, we also give them dyes, but they pay us 18gpt for it.
Sign Scandinavia agianst America for saltpeter.
Babylon would jion for 340 cash upfront, but I'll let that for the next palyer to decide.
Move troops to meet the Americans.

Rush 2 colosseums, 2 cathedrals, 2 temples


End of Turnlog.

Summary:
Communism sucks - don't even think about trying it again.
America declared war.
Cpt 1365.

1300 save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Peanut_SG006_AD1300_01.SAV)

Ouch, that switch sounded painful. I wouldn't have guessed it was going to be like that. If anything we should have had had more money. Perhaps it has do do with the fact that we have so many cities? I don't really know all ins and outs of the optimal city numbers and everything, but if eveything is that that corrupted thats the only explanation I can think of. Perhaps MB knew this would happen and had a little laugh when people switched to it? I know I would :lol:

Anyway, I think its my turn again, so I've got it.

Well, that's very confusing, and rather misleading. I took your save and revolted to see for myself. Yikes! :eek: I don't get it. Looking at the relative F1 screens, it appears that about 200 more corruption is factored in without any increase in income; the only thing I can surmise is that we lose a lot of commerce from our core cities with Marketplaces, but get hardly any new commerce from our outer cities, so net - it's a loss. Still, if I go into say Entremont (under Communism), it shows only 1 Shield and 1 Commerce - it's now a totally corrupt city! :confused: This doesn't jive at all with the Civilopedia's description of Communsim, that all cities "share the same low level of corruption." And yet, Communism is touted as THE government for 100K efforts!

Anyway, I think I'd spend the money to get Babylon allied with us against America. We need any and all sources of military force to take Abe's full attention off us. (Should probably ally Carthage just to make sure he doesn't take advantage of our distraction.) I wouldn't engage him in the field, but stake out defensive positions and try to pick him off as he moves forward. And since we're running a -46 gpt right now, probably need to generate lots of Taxmen and set a lot of cities that wont build anything new to Wealth. We have 69847 culture; at 1365 cpt we reach 100K in 23 turns, so if a city isn't going to gain the population or shields to get that next cultural building in that time, it should build Wealth, and get a Taxman.

K-B, I believe it's your turn! Good luck!

Communism ... Hmmm. Bit of a crock, eh what ? This prompted me to look up Alexman's analysis of corruption (The Article (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=240847&postcount=1)) where he says "... note that Communism continues to deteriorate as you add cities, up to the limit where all its cities are 95% corrupt!!". Looks like we proved it.

I agree with CS. Ally Babylon and Carthage against Abe. This close to the end we definitely do not want to be fighting a multi-front war. Let Joan, Hammie and Ragnar keep Abe busy for a while so we can focus on rushing culture. Every bit helps.

Yes it was painful. I couldn't believe the results of the switch to communism. I guess I was just greatful that we were religious so that I hadn't spent seven turns on it.

Preturn- Sign in Babylon against America. Rush a cathedral, and spend a good while switching some cities to wealth and hiring taxmen to get us to break even.

IT- Axima is torched. We complete lots of culture.

T1 1305

Rush a few cathedrals and libraries and kill a few American cavs.

IT- fend off a few cavs.

T2 1310

A little bit more culture rushed, nothing major.

IT- A few cavs attack, I think they are fully distracted now.

T3 1315

Same deal as before.

IT- zzz

T4 1320

Same as usual.

IT- zzz

T5 1325

Mapstat indicates cpt is at 1410, total is 76907.

IT- Carthages signs MPP with France, ends up declaring on America :clap:

T6 1330

Nothing new.

IT- zzz

T7 1335

France is really chewing up America now.

IT- zzz

T8 1340

France will give us 26gpt for incense. Done deal.

IT- zzz

T9 1345

Nothing much new.

IT- zzz

T10 1350

Very, very quiet.


Summary

This one is all but in the bag. Mapstat's cpt readings have been really jumpy, but I think we're over 1500 cpt now, and we are at 84174 total.That will likely increase enough for Mailman to deliver us our well earned victory.

Great news! Abe should have kept his deals with us! (Phew!) Looks like we just have 10-11 turns at most (well, to reach 100K. The map might require a bit more.) Mailman: you should definitely take us to 100K, however many turns it takes. Good Luck!

Look at that culture graph! Team X has definitely turned up. Our only direct competition is Team RowAndLive, and I haven't noticed an uploaded save from them in several days (they've been at 850 AD for a while.) Team Offa probably got the ToA with lots of cities early. (Now that I've checked the Spoiler, they actually got Pyramids, and then ToA; Pyramids were the main factor.)

BTW, I was checking out the HOF site. Communism is a good 100K bet with C3C, maybe not PTW or Vanilla! It has more generous Corruption calculations. They also use a lot of drafting, especially with Replaceable Parts (the Infantry unit they generate is worth more than 20 shields when it's disbanded, so it's 'better' then just pop-rushing and can be used in any city, not just the city where the pop-point came from.)

I got it.
I will take it till the end...

preturn:
notice that America would sign peace easily. I will use that if they are near us. get ready to attack calcuta
rush: 5 temples, 3 libraries, 3 cathadrals, 2 coloseums
switch production from uni's to banks in the core.
searched for deals and got 8gpt + 33g

1. 1355AD took calcuta.
2. nothing much. rush some culture
IBT france sign peace with america
3. nothing much. rush some culture
IBT. france complete unversal suffrage.
4,5,6 nothing much. rush some culture each turn
IBT america sign peach with babilon
7,8,9,10. nothing much

and finally in 1405:
We won!!!
final cpt: 1692

Reference number: 1940
Game: SGOTM 06
Your team: Peanut
Your name: MailMan
Date submitted: 2005-03-29
Software Version: PtW 1.27f
Game date: 1405 AD
Player race: Celts
Firaxis score: 9340
Jason score: 8288
Time played: 95:50:44
Game status: Cultural 100K Victory for Celts
Submitted save: Peanut_SG006_AD1405_01.SAV
Renamed file: Peanut_SG006_AD1405_01.SAV

Great game every one.
Hopfully we will win some medal for this.

Well done, fellow Peanuts ! Good work KB & Mailman in keeping Abe at bay while we got even more genteel and cultural.

We can probably take a discrete peek at the other threads now we have finished, and compare our effort with the other PTW/1.29 teams. Our race with Team Tao could be interesting. While we seem to be running well ahead of them, their recent posts suggest that they had a mighty rush of culture at the end and were hoping to squeak in a 1400AD finish, or maybe 1405AD. Wouldn't it be fun if we tied with them ? From their spoiler they captured the Pyramids and Sun Tsu - that's a growth boost plus free barracks. Think of the extra rushing we could have done if WE had captured the Pyramids !

Comparison with the Conquests teams seems a little less useful, as most seem to have aimed for ToA with all that automatic free temple culture.

Thank you all :beer:
Indeed quite exciting between us and team Tao - looks like they'll beat us by one turn.

Well done guys. Great game.

You can look at the other threads now of course. :)

Next Game is an AWD. No rest for the wicked. :evil:

Great Game Everybody! This is far better than any individual game I've played, and considering that we're competitive with some teams that did capture the Pyramids, we've done very good indeed. :goodjob: This was also a very stressing game, considering how large the empire was and how many cities had to be maintained. It will be interesting to check out some of the other threads.

Next Game is an AWD. No rest for the wicked. :evil:
I'm afraid that scares the crap out of me.
I've never got anywhere with deity - and AWD :eek:
So I'm seriously cosidering passing the next one.

Communism is horrible in vanilla and PTW. Particularly in vanilla it is unlikely to be worthwhile switching from despotism in fact. I learned a lot about communism from this game, reading the threads and looking at saves. (I have you at a disadvantage of course. :) ) You may get the food, but you just can't support the building maintenance for a 100K game. You may be glad you switched so late.

Mathilda: Yes it's scary, but it's also winnable. After this game you have no excuse for losing your bottle.

Can we at least do like 5 turns at a time each instead of ten?
I could quite easily lose the whole game in ten turns.
Or maybe two?

Awesome job team, it has been a pleasure. Now to sit back and see if we manage to fend off tao's late push, or Xteam's incredible upswing.

I look forward to some AWD, should prove very interesting.

@Mathilda- I don't think it will be too bad, but I think stopping to discuss things in the next game will probably happen more often. Be confident, I'm sure we'll all do fine, and if something happens it happens. Just don't doubt yourself, if you can handle keeping 200+ cities inline, I'm sure AWD will be no problem. Heck, we can even get out of Despotism in this one :lol:

And speaking of the next game.....any idea of the civ? :mischief:

Well, now you can read the team threads you can judge for yourselves how close it will be. I think there will be a handful of turns between all the PTW/1.29 games. I'm really happy about that.

Team Offa have creamed everyone else again, so they will be split up for the next game.

Just don't doubt yourself, if you can handle keeping 200+ cities inline, I'm sure AWD will be no problem. Heck, we can even get out of Despotism in this one :lol:
Keeping 200+ cities in order is just admin.
AWD is having your one spearman attacked by 20 cavalry.
Ok, I consider it, but I really am apprehensive about this.

We got out of despotism in this one - for a whole turn!

Spears atttacked by cavalry? Come on, be realistic....we might have a couple pikes by then :p :lol:

Don't worry Mathilda. I will be here to ensure that any minor mistakes you make are completely eclipsed by my spectacular blunders. For example - remember the Russian steamroller campaign last game, where your illustrious team figurehead lost 3 arrmies in two turns for the loss of zero enemy troops ?

We will be in it together, it will be fun no matter what happens, and don't forget that we have yet to win that coveted wooden spoon trophy.

We will be in it together, it will be fun no matter what happens, and don't forget that we have yet to win that coveted wooden spoon trophy.


Speak for yourselves, I already have one. It isn't as illustrious as it might seem :lol:

Seriously though, I'm glad to be playing with a solid team like you all. In the past games I've been on teams where there wasn't enough discussion and communication between members and it ended up disasterously aside from SGOTM 3.

With this team, I think only a truely cruel streak of rng misfortune could earn us the wooden spoon.

A few thoughts and conclusions on the game and the variant:
- Expand first culture later is the way to go
- The pyramids is a key wonder in such a game. we should have went for it even if it would have delayed our expansion. There are two choises for that: we could have built it ourseleves in a second city or go for it immediatly after it was built with full strength.
- We should have built the FP sooner
- RCP 3 was very tight, I think we should have gone to RCP 4 or even 5. the main reason is that only the first ring is productive in suce a game, a wider ring whould allow more cities to be productive and more tiles to be used by each city.
- Galic swordsmen rocks
- Communism sucks
- We wasted a lot of effort on something that sucks.

A few tought about the next SGOTM
I never played diety nor AW, but I think I am up for the task.
I have been reading several threads on that variant and the basic strategy is:
- good starting postion (otherwise, quit immediately)
- try to stay alive using the terrain defensibly.
- build a LOT of bombing units and move to the offensive side.

I agree with both your points about this game and the next. We might also strongly consider making a push for The Great Library as well. It all depends on waht kind of terrain we have, but I know from lurking many of the AW SG threads that it is an extremely helpful wonder.

If we get TGL that will be the only time I think we'll be going off of max possible research. Our civ will help determine our research. If we are scientific, we may want to make a quick run at Iron Working to find where that critical resource is. If we're not scientific, I think we need Bronze Working asap or we could be dead very quick. I we end up Commercial it will certainly help in getting to Writng and Lit quicker. Although, this is all very sketchy. If we can do initial trades, we could pick up IW and other techs if we delay contact enough while we head straight for Lit.

Ok guys, enough discussing the next one in this thread :nono:
we seem to be one of the first teams to finish again, so I expect it will be a bit of wait, before we get the next one?

We should all go off and privately practice being massacred in AWD so that, when we do eventually get going on SG7, at every turn we will all feel exhilarated and irrepressibly confident at having survived that long !

I intend to hone some AW skills as soon as we at least know the civ. Of course, that might be a while.

Nice review, MailMan! I've only played two 100K games before this one, so this game was definitely one to learn the basics for being competitive in this type of victory.

Pyramids was definitely key. It will be interesting to see how many people took them from France.

Communism in PTW definitely sucks. The resources we spent to get it were totally wasted - very sad. And the two turns lost in Anarchy I believe are also reduced Culture growth as well, so Communism was a real mess all the way around. (Probably a tad bit different in C3C with better Corruption implemented.)

Lots of Drafting going on in the other threads. We didn't do that and probably missed some culture for that (still, we'd have needed to build nearly 1700 culture to move our final date up 1 turn - over 500 Libraries! Or 50 Libraries about 10 turns earlier, 25 Libs 20 turns earlier, etc.)

Our 2nd ring of distance 6 was starting to get a lot of city sites in the Water, in the mountains and on the Japanese continent. We'd have had more space to grow the cities we had, but we wouldn't have had a whole lot more cities at higher than 3 RCP.

One thing we didn't do was Jump the Palace; that might have been the most efficient way to get 2 big cores, at the loss of our 4 turn Settler Factory.

I really liked the Gallic Swordsmen; we needed a lot more, especially if we were to go after France. (Maybe sign some ROP's and not conquer everyone inbetween, but that's pretty risky too.)

Good Lessons Learned - I may have to try a 100K game in GOTM sooner than later now. :) Great Game Everybody!

As far as AWD, I've got no experience there. Let's definitely review whatever threads we can find and talk about it once the SGOTM7 threads open. I remember SGOTM3 was very daunting when we started, and we handled that one pretty good, so we can 'hope' for the best (gulp!)

Hello Peanuts. :wavey:
Next sign up approaching, are you all set to go?
Is the lightning fast team Peanut ready to ... well it's AWD, so I don't know what to say, ready to be slaughtered?

And here's some gossip, in case you don't usually visit the OT.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112302 :)

Next sign up approaching, are you all set to go?
MailMan reporting for duty and ready to go.

well it's AWD
The following thread is a must read before we start (although we can not pick our civ nor our map):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=117296

And here's some gossip, in case you don't usually visit the OT.
Congratulations.
I usually do not visit the OT threads but I saw a lot of replies there from players that do.

I don't read OT either so this was something of a surprise.

Congratulations!

You can send my invitiation to the wedding by PM, it will save you the cost of a stamp. :mischief:

I don't read OT either so this was something of a surprise.

Congratulations!

You can send my invitiation to the wedding by PM, it will save you the cost of a stamp. :mischief:
Thanks :)
I know the thread is rediciliously long now, so it's obvious you wouldn't read through, but if you had you'd know there's not going to be a wedding, but a chance that we'll arrange a non-wedding party. Will be in Finland though :)

Congrats Mathilda :clap:

As for the game, shall one of us sign us up as a team?

I will be more than heppy to stay in the team.

When all the remaining team members (civ_steve & Peanut) will say their word, we can sign up as a team.

Goodness me, Mathilda ! I have never read those threads, and it sure made interesting reading.

Congratulations ... but ... :crazyeye: what if you two ended up on different teams in SGOTM ? Would you be forbidden to talk to each other just in case you accidently spoilered each other ? What if you talked in your sleep ? Is it worth the risk ? Separate bedrooms perhaps ? Hmmm ... The mind boggles ! :eek:

I wish you both every happiness. :)

... now on to SGOTM 7 !

Congratulations ... but ... :crazyeye: what if you two ended up on different teams in SGOTM ? Would you be forbidden to talk to each other just in case you accidently spoilered each other ? What if you talked in your sleep ? Is it worth the risk ? Separate bedrooms perhaps ? Hmmm ... The mind boggles ! :eek:

I suppose we better make sure, that won't happen.
AVN has never played in the SGOTM, so no great problem.
He might be following this one from the sidelines, might even help point out some of my stupidities as I make them. Can't be a bad thing.

Well .... I now know what Mathilda was doing during our recent break! ;) I'm glad we could finish SGOTM6 quickly and free up some time for you!

I don't go to OT very often, so thanks for the link and I did enjoy reading through it (there are some interesting characters in OT ... as well as S/G/COTM too, I suppose.) Congratulations and good luck to both of you! Everyone deserves happiness in their lives, and I hope you two can do that for each other.

Me, Mrs. civ_steve and our future_civver just got back from a week in Orlando, so sad to say we must decline any invitations to Finland at this time. Hope the party's a hit.

Count me in for SGOTM7, so let's sign up as a team. We did pretty good in SGOTM3, so it might be worthwhile to review some of the tactics we did there and modify them appropriately. I'll have to look at the thread that MailMan linked to as well.

Question: I think Keith Larson was the only person who definitely wanted to play PTW. If Keith is out (and I'd like to have him back for '7 if he's up for it; I'll PM him about that), would there be an interest in playing in C3C?

I am more than willing to go either way. PTW will allow us to potentially rush some wonders that could be quite useful, while C3C will allow us access to the awesomely overpowered armies. My gut feeling thinks that PTW will be a bit tougher. I'm willing to go either way though.

Some thoughts about choosing which version to use.
Great Library would be sweet, about the only way to keep up with techs at all.
If it was pangea, I'd say c3c for the armies, but I'm nervous about sifting them on galleys. And unless we have the GL I doubt we'll see bigger boats than galleys.
Also for anything to trade on the initial contact, maps might be about the only thing we could have to sell and on c3c that's not possible either.

I have no preference and am happy to play in whatever version the majority choose.

Sadly, Finland is not quite an easy drive from my place (Brisbane, Australia) so you may have to e-mail me a photo of some beer and piece of the celebration cake. Then eat it on my behalf.

Being able to trade maps earlier in PTW would be quite beneficial, allowing us to know the land before taking it. (Hopefully) Also, PTW has a lower cost upgrade than C3C. I don't think the AI is as aggressive early on in PTW either. OTOH, those armies in C3C are awesome! And I think the last decision was no rushing of Wonders prior to ... 1000 BC?

Building the Great Library was a cornerstone of our strategy for SGOTM3. We also built lots of walls and catapults to boost our defensive posture and giving us a much higher kill ratio vs the AI; that was easier to do with the 3 defense of the Legion and will not be as easy with the Ottomans vs Deity level AI.

Since we are competing against other teams the differences between C3C and PTW will affect all.

but... PTW industrious trait is more powerful than on C3C.

I can go either way. I think that C3C armies (which we will probably have tons of) will rule the game (if we choose C3C).

Someone want to flip a coin?

For purely selfish reasons I hope you will stay with PTW, otherwise we will have seven conquests teams and only 3 classic teams. No pressure of course, it's just that I would like to support the mac platform (as well as pple who do not own conquests).

It's up to you - really no pressure. But if it would otherwise be a coin toss....

So, You are basically saying that we will have less competition on the laurel in PTW...

Regardless of the above, if mad-bax wants more teams on PTW, and we do not have any preference between the two, I'll say that we should choose PTW.

Not really. Fewer competitors, not necessarily less competition. Tao, Xteam and Peanut are still intact. Offa has been disbanded and CDZ has been altered - though still very strong. CarlosMM and akots will not be playing.

I think we'll have stiff competition either way. Underestimating Tao or Xteam would be a mistake, as they clearly defeated us this last time out. We could however chalk that up to them getting a lot more cities, Pyramids, replaceable parts, or perhaps more pleasure out of masochistic micromanagement ;) :p

Nonetheless, I don't mind PTW at all. I think it will be tougher, but that does in turn give us extra bragging rights should we finish quicker than the C3C contingent.

If it's a coin toss, I'd suggest we stay with PTW. I thought the final competition between Xteam, Tao and Peanut was really interesting - let's leave them in the dust this time! :cool:

I've read the article MailMan linked to. Very interesting with a lot of useful information, but be careful about the elements that were specific to Sid level, the Byzantines, etc.

PTW sounds good to me. If Xteam is PTW then we are duty bound to meet them again on the field of glory and this time teach them a lesson that they won't forget in a hurry* !

* of course we may first have to wait patiently for them to pick themselves off the floor and let the ache from their hysterical laughter subside.

But seriously folks - last game was very close so another tussle between X, Tao and us would be interesting.

PTW sounds good to me. If Xteam is PTW then we are duty bound to meet them again on the field of glory and this time teach them a lesson that they won't forget in a hurry* !

* of course we may first have to wait patiently for them to pick themselves off the floor and let the ache from their hysterical laughter subside.

But seriously folks - last game was very close so another tussle between X, Tao and us would be interesting.
I doubt Xteam will be playing PTW.. since only vanilla works on Mac :)
I still wonder how our game would have gone had we played PTW.. since in ptw the barbarians would not have come straight for our worker/capital :)

Oops - D'Uh ! Good point ! But vanilla / PTW results are sort of comparable, aren't they ?