I didn't play. Elmarae didn't upload a save yet so she must be playing based on your 750AD save.

As far as Education and the Great Library, as long as we don't know Education we will get every tech known by 2 AIs on the turn after we capture it. Its a well known trick to quickly catch way up in techs. Who knows, we might even get Comunism from this if the AIs are advanced enough.

Thanks for the analysis MOTH - I'm really glad that we have sopmeone here who knows what they're doing on a 10K, as I certainly don't. In any case, it's looking good, so let's keep the pace! Unless someone else wants it, I'll take the action to write the spoiler. It'll help me to better understand what went on, and where we are.

Off Topic - I've posted the start map at R&L03, and am looking for some discussion before I go beyond the first turn. Thanks to Brother Bede for modding a map for us!

Is the 750AD save the right one?

Is the 750AD save the right one?

Yes, the 750AD is the right save. My pop-rush and corruption analysis above is based on that save.

I took your analysis for actual turns. Sorry for the confusion.

Didn't include all the pop rushing and builds. The basic rule I used was.

Temple > Library > Settler in ICS corrupted towns.
Marketplaces in towns producing 4 or more uncorrupted gold
Catapults or Knights depending on if the town had a barracks.

760 AD
Babylon builds Smiths in Babylon
London builds Newton's University

780 AD
Besancon builds Magellans' (French)

790 AD
India begs for peace and gives Hyperadad. I take it, most of our armies are hurting badly.

830 AD
France has railroads. England is also in the IA. Started moving our troops to Iroq lands. Think it is time to take the Great Library.

Cities 105. 506 cpt

Firaxis score: 2443
Jason score: 831

- Roster -
Durkz - On deck
MOTH -
rrau -
jb1964 -
Elmarae - Just played
RowAndLive - Up

>>>SAVE<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_AD0850_01.SAV)

Acknowledged. I will post a "got it" tonight.

Do we really need markets? They seem like a lot of shields for not much gpt impact. I think that courthouses in any town with 16-70% corruption will make a bigger impact, especially if we switch to Communism at some point. This way we get both gpt and shields.

We are also producing a ton of settlers. We need to capture more land to be able to have someplace to put all of them. We should plan a campaign against the Mongols for as soon as we are ready for peace with the Iroqouis.

Trading: We have no active trades. The only way someone will give us a gpt deal will be to renegotiate peace. We should maybe try this with the Babylons. We might also be able to get them to give us a MA vs someone via this method.

I think we're going to need the markets to support the culture.

I think there are plenty of ICS locations to plop settlers and rush the temple and libraries, however, I agree we need a much bigger force.

W/ France building RR's we should aim to attack w/ cavalry before Joan gets Rep. Parts. Is this feasible?

We should plan on switching to Commie even if we need to research it ourselves. The reduction in corruption is needed to pay for the culture.

Priority
0) Switch to Commie ASAP. We're religious!
1) Capture the GL, upgrade knights, pump cavalry, eliminate France.
a) Eliminating France - Enlist others w/ luxuries or techs (after GL :p)
2) Continue generating settlers from the corrupt cities.
3) Build the capacity of our core cities to support the cost of our culture.

CivAssist's corruption tab (which is known to be buggy) indicates that a switch to communism would be a huge problem. Without courthouses nearly every city would be close to 95% corrupt. That's the problem with the whole "spread corruption arround evenly" model when you've got a ton of wholely corrupt cities. When I get home tonight I will load up a save near the end of one of my old GOTM's and switch to communism and see what the real effect would be.

I keep forgetting that this is PTW. Yes, we can almost be certain that a switch to Commie will be detrimental. *Emphasis on "mental" :crazyeye:

There's a "Ankka" SG that was a "Cultural Domination". We had over 200k of culture at the end. I think it was CivIII. If it's still on my drive I'll take a look at it as well as I know we switched to Commie for some time but eventually wound up in Monarchy so we could rush culture w/ gold and remain at war w/ the AI's once they started a skirmish.

Cultural domination game... (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81634)

I have it now, & will start tomorrow.

Started last night & will continue tonight. :)

Hey R&L, no rush, but how is the turnset going?

Also, I just checked on Durkz and he hasn't logged on in a week, so I propose we skip him until he returns.

R&L do you need a skip?

It looks like R&L started and plans to finish based on the edit to his post. Of course if time is pressing you could always post a partial turn set.

I am still playing, but had to skip playing last night. Sorry for the delay. Given that this is a 100K, it doesn't seem to be as much of a sprint to the finish as the previous SGoTM's have seemed. I have set my head to playing my full 10, as I'm starting to feel like an anchor to you guys and gals.

However, if someone wanted to take over writing the spoiler post, that would be fine.

Thanks for your patience!

R&L,
Just take your time. As I figure it you will only have 1 more turn set after this one if we are going to take first place. Team Tao is going to hit 100K in no more than 28 turns at their current pace (@ about 1300 cpt). That's only 68 turns from the end of your turnset. This isn't a huge amount of time for us to kill off the French.

However, my analysis tells me we might not have to kill of the French. They are currently earning 450cpt, but I'll count it at 500 due to upcoming doubling. This is 56 turns from now (46 from the end of R&L's turnset until they reach 50K.) If we can get some Cav up to France in the next 30 turns (20 after R&L's turns) and start razing cities and Capture Paris we should be able to cut into France's cpt enough that we can double their total culture by about the time we hit 100K. I get a feeling that eliminating France will be a bear.

hey all i am back
my phone line was broken for 8-9 days (and ofcorse i have dial-up)
but im now ready to play
i will catch up in reading and give my sugestions

Good timing Durkz,
Welcome back. RowAndLive should be done with his turnset soon and then you are up. I was thinking that we would have to skip you as you hadn't been online and spamming lately.

Priorities per earlier posting:
0) Switch to Commie ASAP. We're religious!
1) Capture the GL, upgrade knights, pump cavalry, eliminate France.
a) Eliminating France - Enlist others w/ luxuries or techs (after GL )
2) Continue generating settlers from the corrupt cities.
3) Build the capacity of our core cities to support the cost of our culture.


850AD – 0
Review of priorities:
0 } 7 mandatory techs to finish the age + 2 more beyond = 9 techs minimum. Long time.
1 } GL do-able now. Need more cash. France has Leo’s. :( 39 knights is good.
a } Most others furious. England has wines, France gems. Others have nada.
2 } can do.
3 } will investigate

Change Lindum & Augustodurum to Markets.

IBT: Iro’s demand we leave from MChunk & we demand back, but no DoW. Babylon passing through Iro’s in East near their single city. Bab galleon near Gewauga (1 tile island).
Delhi temple > worker, Hangchow settler > settler, Eboracum-no roads library > settler, Eboracum settler > cathedral, New Camulodunum knight > knight, New Eboracum library > cat
Culture pushes on Mongol city Tsetserleg in SE, Gewauga expands, catching Bab galleon.

860 – 1
Babylon has rifles.
Change Caughnawaga to warrior in 4.
Found Gergovia 2 > harbor.
Position for attack on Iroquois.

IBT: Iro’s demand we leave from MChunk & we demand back, but no DoW. Mongols are coming for us in force.
Edo settler > musket, Deva settler > cat, Lezoux knight > MDI

- 12 MDI, 6 LBs coming toward our lone warrior at Rusaddir. I’ll let them close, and then gift it to a useful ally.
- Babs have 3 bowmen, pikes & spears near Nora
- Mongol pike toward Agedincum
- some Keshiks came in too, near Oil Springs, right in our attack path to Salamanca, 1 elite, 1 vet.

870 – 2
With the Mongols coming on, 2 :viking: galleys in our waters on the North coast, and little to no defense up there, and us about to have invaded the Iro’s, I am tempted to offer the Mongols and ROP, just to see if I can put off their invasion, or trash their rep if they attack anyway. I try to buy a tech from them for all of our gold (683g + 32gpt), and they won’t take it, so an attack is imminent. We’re considered strong versus Mongols, Iro’s & Vikings, but it’s all like an eggshell. We’ve got pitifully little as garrison, and not much reaction force. Maybe a Mongol war would be good. I personally don’t see the point of allowing an ROP, except for exposing ourselves more, so we’ll have to see.

After a break for Easter Dinner at my brother’s house, I’ve rethought this.
We demand, Mongols declare.
@Lahore, cat takes 1 off eKeshik, vKnight dies taking vKeshik to red & promoting, army -4 killing 4/5 eKeshik, vKnight -1 kills 2/5 Keshik & promotes
@ Hxxxx, move knight & MDI adjacent
Change Lahore to catapult in 4. Found Dis Town > harbor.

IBT: Iro’s ask to trade TMs – no. France has ironclads,
Shanghai settler > worker
Notice Sabratha (Bab) is loaded with troops > at least 8 Bowmen, 4 LB, 1 pike, 3 spears, 1 MDI + garrison.

880 – 3
Change Lahore to rax in 3.
@Ulaanbaatar, vKnight -2 killing pike, vKnight dies taking pike to red, vKnight -3 taking pike -1, vKnight -2 killing pike, vKnight -2 killing pike, vKnight -1 killing pike
Build Dat Town > harbor
Change Eboracum to knight, Tokyo to knight, Augustodorum to knight, Verulamium to knight, Glanum to knight,

IBT: 3 Bab muskets arrive near Sabratha, Mongol LB kills MDI near
Durocortorum settler > worker, Augustodorum knight > knight, Glanum knight > knight, Ningpo settler > rax, New Gergovia library > worker.
Rusaddir riots > taxman & change to warrior in 1.
French begin US > French will soon have factories. This is getting serious. Boy would reputation be convenient about now…

890 – 4
@Ulaanbaatar, vKnight dies doing nada, 3/4 knight -1 kills pike & takes city, 2/4 knight -1 kills LB (@Agedincum) & promotes
Change Karachi to MDI.

IBT: Mongols take & raze xxxxx (near Hovd). Mongols kill warrior @ Rusaddir.
Satsuma settler > musket, Nara settler > worker, Tsingtao riots > taxman, Caughwaga warrior > warrior, Rutupiae settler > worker, New Mohacs market > knight,
Babs & English begin US. Rusaddir riots > taxman.

900 – 5
Gift Rusaddir to England, rather than lose it to Mongols, but Liz stays annoyed.
@Hovd, MDI -1 kills pike, vKnight -1 kills pike & promotes (IIRC), vKnight -3 attacking LB & retreats, MDI -1 kills LB & goes elite.
Hovd > temple & 4 taxmen.

- May want to move MDI from New Eboracum to Hovd to help quell resistors.
- Troops at Ulaanbaatar available, but need healing.
- Army & troops near Lugdunum2 & Lahore available if you want to go for the GLib.
- Many workers available.
- I started building workers instead of settlers, since I had too many already *far away from open areas. Workers keep pop manageable more easily, and can be transferred to core cities for adding-in more frequently. Next player’s choice.
- France, Babs & England all have access to factories. We need to get back on plan, and go for GLib. I couldn’t get the Mongols to talk.
- I am not submitting this on purpose. Next player can submit after finish, since I don’t think it worked out too well (gained 2 size 6 cities, lost 1 size 1).

Okay I'm back after a bad bout of bronchitis and a bad reaction to pencillin, apparently I'm allergic to it. I'm not 100% but I will try to keep my commitments as I can.

Given my own performance lately, take what time you need to heal if you feel the need.

Just to give partial explanation of what is going on: aside from my work projects (major one now complete & submitted), my Mother-in-Law was diagnosed as terminal just after Christmas, and my wife has been undergoing testing for cancer. She will be having surgery and more testing on Friday. I feel very badly about having such poor participation right now, but I've just not been able to swing the time that I want and need to for this sort of game. Hopefully, we'll know more about what's going on soon, and I'll be able to arrange better once I know what all of my burdens will be.

It never rains, but it pours. Once again, my apologies.

@R&L - I'm sorry to hear that. Don't let this be a source of stress for you. Do what you have to do.

Don't feel bad about it R&L, this is just a game, it will be here whether you are active or not. Family is always more important and we would and do understand.

My prayers to you and your family.

Ok, business first:
Durkz is up and I'm on Deck.

I'd like to actually suggest that we cut down on the regular 10 turn sets. I know that I can't get a 10 turn set in on one sitting. I will probably do 5 turns on my round and pass it on. I'll post some thought on the game after examining the save with CrpSuite.

R&L, don't worry about it. You should be playing the game for stress relief, not to add any more to your real life. I hope for all the best for your family.

ok got it i will play it tomorow morining (if i can get up :D )
just a question are we now playing 5 or 10 turns a round?

Durkz, I see your "got it". Its going to be pop-rushing hell, so I would say just take as many turns as you can comfortably do.

Short story: To have a good shot at winning a medal we need to add 18 more new CPT every single turn of the next 65 turns.
And we need to hurt France.

I'll follow in another post with some analysis of what we should be able to manage from the current save.

Long Story:
Warning!: lots of nasty math ahead.

If we want to win the Gold Medal it looks like we are going to have to win by about 1400AD (maybe 1405). Team Peanut's last posted culture was about 84000 or so gaining 1300+ per turn. Figuring this can probably increase to 1600 per turn I expect them to finish in 1405 or 1410. Team Tao could also be in this same area as their Score is sky high and they should be able to convert that to culture with pop-rushing. I expect 1405 or 1410 for them as well.

First for France: They currently have 25261 and are getting about 470cpt which would be 55811 culture but we should expect some additional cpt growth so figure 60000, so we definately need to hurt them. Two anarchies (4 turn average?) would eliminate about 4000 culture, but we still need to stop production of a bunch of culture.

This means that we have 65 turns to get 74971 more culture. We are currently getting 532 cpt so that is 34580 leaving 40391 culture. We should expect some doubling. Using CprViewer I estimate we are getting 142 cpt from improvements that have already doubled. By 1400 we will be getting 408 from doubled improvements and 257 from other improvements for 665 cpt at the end. From doubling cutlure we will get 3313 more culture by turn 270 (1400AD). This leave 37078 more culture we have to generate in the next 65 turns. This is an additional 571cpt averaged over the 65 turns. This means we need an addition of 17 cpt every turn but if we can do more early then it helps the overall average.

I think we must enter total conquest mode. Pop rushing in captured AI cities is our best route to adding the cpt that we need.

Builds to switch as these units/buildings will never get a chance to help us:
Lahore and Ningpo: Barracks to something. Totally corrupt and would cost us gpt.
Deva, New Eboracum, Bangalore: catapults to something. Deva is the only with potential for production as its only 49% corrupt.
Dis Town, Dat Town, Gergovia 2, Anyang, Nanking: Harbors to something. Totally corrupt and would cost us gpt.
Satsuma and Edo: Musketment to something. We don't need defensive units.
Lezoux and Karachi: MDI to something. We don't need slow units.

Next 5 turn potential pop-rushes and/or natural culture builds (that I can determine from CivAssist, I'll try and update later looking at the save).

Turn 0 (24 cpt): Temples in New Deva, New Noviomagus, New Lezoux, New Arausio, Bombay, Hyderabad. Libraries in Nora, New Augustdorum, Agedincum - no roads, Fukushima

There are a few turn 2, 3, and 4 possible temple rushes as well.
Turn 1:

Consider changing settler builds to Knights (even as regulars). We have a bunch of settlers now and a bunch in production. The Settlers are not going to contribute much(a from scratch settler will take 30 turns to produce, 10 to get in position, and 10 growing before it can pop rush and produce culture.) We should start no new settlers after the next 25 turns as they will never produce culture. Consider that even now a Knight or a Cav can help capture a few larger town/city and a temple can be pop-rushed quickly to provide culture.

More thoughts:

Another temple to be rushed turn 0: Ulaanbaatar.
A turn 0 partial rush to get food production back up: Jaipur, New Nemausus, New Glanum, New Cuervo, New Isca,
Changed my mind about Nora as we could lose it. Change it to a Knight so we have better defenses.

Most marketplaces aren't going to be worth it. Some are going to take so long that we'd be better off with military units. Some are also in such small towns that they will produce at most 1 net gpt. Switch some of these to knights.

Warning!: lots of nasty math ahead.

.

Runs and hides from the nasty math. :D

More thoughts:

Another temple to be rushed turn 0: Ulaanbaatar.
A turn 0 partial rush to get food production back up: Jaipur, New Nemausus, New Glanum, New Cuervo, New Isca,
Changed my mind about Nora as we could lose it. Change it to a Knight so we have better defenses.

Most marketplaces aren't going to be worth it. Some are going to take so long that we'd be better off with military units. Some are also in such small towns that they will produce at most 1 net gpt. Switch some of these to knights.

So, to summarize, all MDI & musket builds to knights, even if they come in very late.

Those last few Mongol cities are still resisting.

A good summary. I should have read back further than I did.


Roster -
rrau -
jb1964 -
Elmarae -
RowAndLive - just played
Durkz - UP
MOTH - On Deck

Durkz,
We are approaching 72 hours from your "got it". How is play progressing?

Since we haven't heard from Durkz in 72 hours since his got it and since I was impatient I did 5 turns.

Pre-flight: Lots of pop rush and MM changes.

900AD(0) - Declare war on Iroquois.
I buy in the Indians for a Military Alliance for Luxes, Saltpeter, and a ROP. DON'T Break this deal before 20 turns, but hopefully India will break it first.
Capture Mauch Chunk - 1 Knight red-lined.
Capture Oil Springs with the Sistine Chapel - 2 Knights yellow.

Ibt - Indians do some damage. We lose 2 Knights but Iroq's lose 2.
We build 7 temples, 5 Libraries, 2 Markets, and some knights

910(1) - More MM and some partial rushes.
Kill a Pike and a Spear at Salamanca.
Capture Grand River.

ibt - we get attacked and redlined in a few places. India captures an Iroq town. Iroq's land near Caughnawaga.
We build: 2 settlers, 2 temples.

920(2) - Gift Caughnawaga to Indians. We Capture Salamanca and the Great Library.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sg6-library-capture.JPG

IBT - We lose a Knight.
The Great Library teaches us: Printing Press, Education, Banking, Astronomy, Democracy, Economics, Navigation, Physics, Metallurgy, Magnetism, Theory of Gravity, Nationalism, Military Tradition, Steam Power, Communism and Industrialization.
?? somehow the Library failed to give us Music Theory even though its know by 6 nations ??

Hanging gardens ends. Salamanca ends resistence and riots. Shanghai riots. Tsingtao riots. Lahore riots. Hvod riots. Nora riots.
We build: Settler, Courthouse, 4 Temples, Marketplace

930(3) - Consolidation and Railroad building.

ibt - we lose an MDI. We build some cav.

940(4) - More recovery and upgrades.

ibt - Nagoya riots. We build: 5 temples, 2 Settlers, some cav.

950(5) - Capture Darhan. Capture Centralia.

Reminder, do take peace with Iroq's until India takes peace. Keep doing the culture thing but we must conquer quickly. Every worker who finishes something should work on building the rail skeleton.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_AD0950_01.SAV

Firaxis score: 2710
Jason score: 972

Roster -
rrau - up
jb1964 -
Elmarae -
RowAndLive -
Durkz - skipped
MOTH - just played

Ok, got it, but working on cotm11 now. Should get to this today (I was going to say tomorrow, but I noticed it's after midnight)

I don't think we should go to communism, with this amount of cities we will be corrupt everywhere, at least whith depotism we have a working core. In PTW communism is broken.

Using railroads we would be able to move settlers faster to the borders, I think conquered cities should rush build a settler if they are size 6 or so, then rush build a temple.

@ Elmarae - I disagree on the conquered cities. We need culture badly. If we have an unhappiness problem with our corrupt cities, we can always switch the cav to a settler and whip. It won't cost us potential cpt points, either.

But I do agree on staying in despotism. I did NOT revolt.

************************************************** *******


preflight (950ad)

familiarize my self with the situation.

turn 1 (960ad)

Rushed temple in Centralia
Got a leader, sending to capital to rush a factory.
Captured Niagra Falls
Rushed temple in Gergovia 2
Rushed Library in New Curovernum
Rushed library in New Burdigala
Rushed temple in Darhan
Pillaged Mongolian Horses

ibt: lost Niagra falls

turn 2 (970ad)

recaptured Niagra Falls
Captured Kohlapur - with wines
Disbanded leader for shields for the factory
Captured Dalandzadgad (mongolian)

ibt:

lost both our armies to massive Iroquois troops stacks
Large mongoalian stack threatening us also.

turn 3 (980ad)

Had to make peace with Mongols. Couldn't get any cities. Got Music theory out of the deal (useless).
Rushed temple in Dat Town
Rushed library in New Cataractonium
Rushed temple in Dalandzadg
Rushed temple in Kohlapur

turn 4 (990ad)

no battles. repositioning troops
nothing to rush this turn

turn 5 (1000ad)

rushed library in Shimonoseki

turn 6 (1010ad)

Rushed temple in Agedincum 2
Rushed temple in Entremont 2
Rushed temple in Augustodurum 2

ibt: Large iroquois stack moves next to salamanca

turn 7 (1020ad)

attacked the stack outside of salamanca - lost 1 cav. 2 retreats, 11 victories. Leaving 1 3/3 longbow, 1 2/3 longbow and 1 1/3 mace. Hopefully that's it for most of the Iroquois troops and hopefully they're gassed.

Rushed temple lapurdum 2
Rushed temple cataractonium 2
rushed temple Burdigala 2
rushed temple eboracorum 2
Rushed library Ise

turn 8 (1030ad)

While picking off stragglers by Salamanca we get another leader
Rush temple Nemausus 2
Rush temple Lundum 2
Rush temple Tolosa 2
Rush temple Ratae Coritanorum 2
Rush library New Ratae Coritanorum
Started a rax in New Mohacs - it's building cav frequently enough to warrant it.

turn 9 (1040ad)

Disbanded leader for shields for a university and 4 cpt in kyoto
Captured Niagra falls again (third time's a charm, hopefully)
Rushed library in New Lindum
Rushed temple in Curovernum 2

ibt: Iroquois and India signed peace treaty

turn 10 (1050ad)

Captured St. Regis
Got another Leader - tried to disband for Military Academy, but didn't work - my bad. Should have gone back and read the thread. :blush:
Rush a temple in Glanum 2
Rush library in New Tolosa


Notes:

I have the settler by Canton on a goto order - I found a nearby spot to settle another city.

The iroquois are pretty gassed. I say we eliminate them and pop rush their cities for culture

Hopefully you can capture Tonawanda next turn - I've got several cav nearby that should be able to reach it.

We will need to rush a ship of some kind in one of the former Iroquois cities to reach the 2 Iroquois cities on the island in a timely fashion.

Total culture: 34031 (was 27838 in 950ad)
cpt: 662 (was 573 in 950ad) - I hate math, but that's only about 9.9cpt added per turn - nowhere near enough.

Hopefully we can take out the rest of the iroquois cities and pop rush. I would expect the Iroquois to be eliminated within the next 10 turns. Who do we turn to then? India or Mongols?

When we can afford it, we need to DoW on France and buy in Babylon and England.


>>>THE SAVE<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_AD1050_01.SAV)

@jb, I think you're up.

Turn 0 – 1050 AD
Recap for all the lurkers out there…
The only war at the moment is the Celt (us) vs. the Iroquois. The Iroquois have 14 remaining cities.
We’re still a Despotism and will likely stay that way given the hefty price in PTW.
I found three cities to pop cavalry.
Every city w/ a temple and library is set for cavalry.
I changed two barracks builds to cavalry figuring quantity will give us enough quality and we can save the gold for culture.
We’re researching Electricity at 0% and are at 0% entertainment as we have 5 luxuries to keep our people happy. Beside, we have one size 9 city and then it’s downhill from there.
Our only active deal is a peace treaty (13 turns) w/ the Mongols.

IBT: High-ho Silver Away!

Tokyo – university
Richborough – university
Glanum 2 – lib

We take Tonawanda (2 defenders, no losses)
We take Alleghney (3 def, no loss)
Kill a LB and pike camping on a mountain and manage a GL.
- Anyone think we should use the GL to pop a university? They’re worth 200s right?

I'll have to get back to this tomorrow night.

Yes, I would go for a university. they're 4cpt. And the leaders are worth 250 shields, so you'll have plenty.

There are a few cities where a factory might be worth the leader as well. After that then Unis are great with the disband rush.

Short note - wife doesn't have cancer, and is recovering from surgery. I'm sick with severe digestive problems. Out until at least end of week.

I'll look at a factory in one of core cities and see what that buys us in unit production for "captured" culture. I'm still leaning towards the uni in a corrupt city just based on "big" gut feel.

BTW, I have dinner, a swim board meeting and then the NCAA finals (any basketball imodicons out there?). I'll progress the game tonight and finish turns Tuesday evening. However, if the Illini win I might just play through the night on pure adrenalin. :)

@Row,
Thank goodness you and your wife got such good news. I hope you're feeling better as well. Call in friends and family to help you out w/ dinners and the rest of RL so the two (more?) of you can recooperate together.

My wife's on the mend from pneumonia that landed her in the hospital for 6 days and if not for friends and family (in-laws arrived at midnight last night) I would be a wreck.

I don't know how to say this other than to say I didn't save the game in the middle of turn 1.

[Update... well, the Illini didn't win but on the upside we got the GL again. :) After four turns we're at 36753 @~680cpt]

[Update 4/6/05... I'm no further than I was. I fell asleep at ~9pm. I'll finish up tonight and post whatever turns are complete.]

Try to replay the best you remember and hopefully you'll get the leader again.

@Row, glad to hear the good news about your wife. Hope you recovery goes well.




As for the game,
I think we have now added about 120 cpt over 19 turns. I don't think we can realistically win the medal anymore, but we need to keep out of last place if we can. Team Ivan and Xteam are making huge gains.

From hints that Mad-Bax has posted in the DemoGame forums I think our mistake was to concentrate on the ICS too soon. We should have let the ladies loose with their blood thirst and expanded to the domination limit and then ICS'd back to the core from the outside in adding culture as we went.

Well, after looking at the way the culture graphs are going, I think we're going to end up with a nice collection of wooden spoons.
http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/sobbing.gif

Hey spoons are not all that bad I have a whole collection of wooden utensils from this dang game :D

We can still avoid the spoons. Team Ivan is our real competition. They have a similiar score and less total culture. We just need to conquer as quickly as possible and rush temples and Libraries in the captured towns.

Doubling of our extisting culture will start picking up as well and should be more than Ivan or Xteam can get. Doubling will provide:
+9 cpt by 1150
+29 more cpt by 1250
+37 cpt by 1350
+41 cpt by 1400
That's 116 more cpt by the date Tao and Peanut should win.

Would like input....

Turn 7 – 1120 AD
We take three more of the Hiawatha’s cities and then make peace for the two island cities leaving the Iroquois w/ a lone city.
We build an embassy in Babylon. They’re two turns from US.
We don’t have enough to purchase a war w/ the French or visa versa.

OK, things haven’t gone great for us so I’ll roll the dice and tell the French to get the heck out of our territory. After looking at this a little further I figure the French could buy the Babs and the Vikes into a fray against us without much trouble. Then again, they already have Electricity and are probably just around the corner from Rep Parts. After that RepParts putting a dent in them is going to be a real pain.

Here’s an interesting thought. If we declare on England then France must declare on us. I wonder if that’s just as damaging to them as if they declared without provocation? Hmmm, due to MPP's we would get India, England and France vs. us, Babs and the Vikes. I doubt this would swing. I’m wrong! For ~900g Hammy will play ball and we can buy the Vikes for Fizziks.

Can I please start a world war?!?

Or shall I turn out cavalry into cathedrals?

Culture: Us - 38,881 @714cpt, France - 36,224

can we buy mmp's, have the French DoW on us, wait a turn and let France attack us and activate the mmp's?

In some games I have done the following when the AIs have MPPs that I don't want to break:

1. Sign MPPs with all civs except the target and any civs the target is already at war with. Also avoid MPPs with civs that are at war with anyone as we don't want to get pulled into a side war.
2. Declare war on target but don't invade.
3. Place bait outside the AI borders for the AI to trigger the attack.

In this case the French still have a unit stuck on an island inside of our borders. We don't need to use bait, but will need to make sure we can kill the French unit on turn 2. Or better yet, don't kill the French and let him sit there to re-trigger the MPPs of anyone that gets peace.

Start a world war against the French! The World war will probably make them switch governments so there will be a pause in their culture generation for a few turns. In 20 turns or so we can get peace with France for a ROP and then march 20 cavs next to Paris and ROP-Rape them.

I do like the way you think, MOTH

That sounds feasible at this point, although perhaps hard to implement. jb mentioned that we can't but any MPP, assumably due to lack of cash. I'm guessing that he can but MA's.

The only thing that we can't do is nothing. France has to be slowed at least, and preferably reversed. Something to keep in mind is that it doesn't have to be US who ends up with their cities. It can be anyone further back in culture, as they won't have time to catch up enough to be a problem. Who are likely prospects for that who also have a good military? Let's make a final decision and execute! :hammer:

Incidentally, nice job following through on GLib.

The MPP's out there are...
France-England
India-England

MA w/ Babs (strong), Vikes (weak), and China (??) (for flavor) against England. This France (strong) and India (weak) declare.

I bet we can force India to bow out early.

Carthage and the Iroquois are short for this world.

France is strong at the moment and on the verge of RepParts.

The French musket is still on our island and I'm content to let him camp.

Abstract:
Iroquois down to a single city.
Culture at 41,105.
France is at war with us, the Babs, Vikes and the Indians (reverse MPP)
We have taken two English cities and two French cities.
France is still a democracy.

Turn 0 – 1050 AD
Recap for all the lurkers out there…
The only war at the moment is the Celt (us) vs. the Iroquois. The Iroquois have 14 remaining cities.
We’re still a Despotism and will likely stay that way given the hefty price in PTW.
I found three cities to pop cavalry.
Every city w/ a temple and library is set for cavalry.
I changed two barracks builds to cavalry figuring quantity will give us enough quality and we can save the gold for culture.
We’re researching Electricity at 0% and are at 0% entertainment as we have 5 luxuries to keep our people happy. Beside, we have one size 9 city and then it’s downhill from there.
Our only active deal is a peace treaty (13 turns) w/ the Mongols.

IBT: High-ho Silver Away!

Tokyo – university
Richborough – university
Glanum 2 – lib

Turn 1 – 1060 AD

We take Tonawanda (2 defenders, no losses)
We take Alleghney (3 def, no loss)
Kill a LB and pike camping on a mountain and manage a GL.
- Anyone think we should use the GL to pop a university? They’re worth 200s right?

Well, after coming back to this game I have found that I did not save before quitting.
Believe it or not, everything remains as it was and we got the GL. Whew!

Lahore gets a university.

IBT:

Turn 2 – 1070 AD
We take Rusicade.

Turn 3 – 1080 AD
Captured Leptis Magna

IBT: Babs look to be taking an aggressive posture.

Turn 4 – 1090 AD
Captured Akwesasne.
Captured Cadiz.
Hiawatha will give us the island cities plus one but we’ll take a few more of his cities before we settle for that. Rushing a caravel over here isn’t going to be two easy so I’ll probably settle for the cities in a few turns.

IBT: England and India MPP

Turn 5 – 1100 AD
We take Theveste.
Elite Cav (4/5) kills a spear and generates a GL.
Two more promotions to elite.
Whip

IBT: Nothing.

Turn 6 – 1110 AD
GL is on his way to build a university.
We take Cirta.
Whip

IBT: France and England sign an MPP.

Turn 7 – 1120 AD
We take three more of the Hiawatha’s cities and then make peace for the two island cities leaving the Iroquois w/ a lone city.
We build an embassy in Babylon. They’re two turns from US.
We don’t have enough to purchase a war w/ the French or visa versa.

OK, things haven’t gone great for us so I’ll roll the dice and tell the French to get the heck out of our territory. After looking at this a little further I figure the French could by the Babs and the Vikes into a fray against us without much trouble. Then again, they already have Electricity and are probably just around the corner from Rep Parts. After that point putting a dent in them is going to be a real pain.

Here’s an interesting thought. If we declare on England the France must declare on us. I wonder if that’s just as damaging to them as if they declared without provocation? Hmmm, we would get India, England and France vs. us, Babs and the Vikes. I doubt this would swing. I’m wrong! For ~900g Hammy will play ball and we can buy the Vikes for Fizziks.

OK, we’ll start the conflagration next turn.

IBT: Joan didn’t like our cavalry checking out her territory so we pull out.

Turn 8 – 1130 AD
OK, MPP w/ Hammy for WM and 869g.
MPP w/ da Vikes for WM, Physics, Dyes, Spices, and 245g.
I can’t wrap up the Mongols. Bummer.
Well, there’s a nice juicy English worker out in the open. Go time!
I guess snatching a worker doesn’t bring in the troops. We won’t be able to knock on the English’s door until next turn.
Does this mean if I sign India to an MPP and England attacks in the IBT then we get them on our side? I think it does and I don’t have time to check this out. I need to get this into the hands of the next player. I give Gandhi Nat, Steam, and a lux. Steep.

IBT: Ha!!!!! :lol: :lol: England gets dog-piled by the Vikes, Babs and the Indians! France has declared on us and the Vikes but has yet to go after the Babs.

Turn 9 – 1140 AD
Attack Matsuyama killing a rifle and two muskets at the cost of two Cavalry.
New Rouen is the first French city to fall. Two rifles fall to two cavalry.
We pick off assorted French troops in the open.
More rushing.

IBT: Babylon and India declare on the French. It would seem we have released hell.
The French approach our shores w/ ironclads and galleys.
The French musket attacks out pikes and bites it. Bwahahahaha!

Turn 10 – 1150 AD
Matsuyama falls.
Carthago Novo falls. Our second French city.
Much movement.
The cities have been sufficiently whipped.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Joan.jpg

Good job. We'll make you into a warmonger yet;)

I have got it. I have a hankering for some french cuisine.

Good job. We'll make you into a warmonger yet;)

I take this as the highest of compliments.

Is everything OK, Elmarae?

My last three turns were just the beginning of the war and took me 2.5 hours. Given our sparse number of units and the need to keep an eye on the Mongols I imagine El's got her sword-weilding hands busy. Also, the rail net is almost expansive enough to get those units most anywhere quickly. Almost.

One note I didn't make that probably should have was that the French (or English, I forget which) were about to land a few units on the northern, westerly pointing, peninsula above the former Chinese territories.

I can now see the wisdom in charging forward to militarily expand to the edge of domination and then ICS filling in and popping culture. You can focus resources early on miltary and then convert your economy to going for culture and adequate defense/reactionary forces. Managing the split personality of domination and culture bulding throughout this time period is taxing.

I wasn't pushing, just curious.

Yes, this is the classic strategy mentioned by Sir Pleb in his article on how to win a 100K. My mstake was in thinking it wouldn't fully apply to a multi-team tournament due to the earliest date requirement.

My personal goals have already been met. 1. Don't die. 2. Learn Something.

My personal goals are to learn something and to meet new people, so I've done that already in this game.

As for Elmarae, she has not been online for about 36 hours now. How much longer should we give her?

As for my schedule, depending on when turn sets get to me I might have to bow out. In the next 3 weeks I've got a birthday party for a 1 yr old to be done and preparation for a 2.5 week vacation. I want to get GOTM42 done as well so my global ranking won't have a hole.

I'm content to wait for her.

Sorry I am having serious computer problems and have had to reinstall Civ3/PTW and still can't find my C3C CD. Now everytime I try to load up the save game I get different "Cannot find random file" and it closes. So I will have to ask for a skip :(

@ Elmarae. Sorry to hear about your computer problems.

So, does that make Row up?

I won't get to it before the weekend. swap / skip for me.

I can't take it before Sunday night or Monday as I've got my baby boy's 1st b-day party on Sunday afternoon and lots to do before then.

This would put us back around to rrau and then jb if they can get a turnset in before R&L.

OK, I'll try to get it out tonight. If not, it won't be done until late Saturday or Sunday. Is that ok?

>>>THE SAVE<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_AD1250_01.SAV)


preflight (1150ad)

looks good

ibt:

had to sign RoP with India or retreat our troops
Mongols and England signed MA against US - US!!! What did we ever do to them (aside from a war or two)
Our MMP's go into effect. Babylon DoW on Mongols. India DoW on Mongols. Vikings Dow on Mongols.

turn 1 (1160ad)

Capture Kazan (mongol)
Captured Goigan (french)

ibt:

America wants to trade WM - sure, why not?
Iroquois demands removal of our troops - agree
Iroquois and France signed trade embargo against us - well what did they have that we wanted anyways? Oh, yeah, their cities.

turn 2 (1170ad)
didn't make any headway in the terms of capturing cities, but eliminated threats of mongols capturing some of our cities. Position to take Carthage next turn

ibt: not much

turn 3 (1180ad)

Attack Tabriz (mongol) and get a leader - disbanded for University in Glanum
Captured Tabriz
Captured Carthage - no resisters - pop rushed temple

ibt:

America and France signed trade embargo against us

turn 4 (1190ad)

Get another leader while capturing Paoting (fr)
Capture Karakorum (mongol capital)

turn 5 (1200ad)

capture Cambridge (fr)

ibt: Lost Agedinicum 2 to the french

turn 6 (1210ad)

capture Utica - once we have a road, we'll have road access to both halves of our empire
While in the process of Autorazing Mandalgovi, got another leader
France is in Anarchy ( :blush: no idea how long they've been there, I forgot to check until now)

turn 7 (1220)

Traded india industrialism for medicine, 43g, WM
We now have a road, but not rail between both halves of our empire.

turn 8 (1230ad)

Attack New Besancon and get another leader
Capture New Besancon
Autoraze Mandalgovi

ibt:

India and England made peace
Iroquois and England signed MA against Vikings
India DoW England

turn 9 (1240ad)

Captured Choybalsan (mongol)

ibt:

Iroquois and Babylon signed MA against France

turn 10 (1250ad)

I've set you up to attack a couple Mongol cities next turn.

Culture: 49179 with 861cpt (was 41105 culture and 746cpt in 1150ad)

Sa' weeet leader generation.

Nice setta turns.

I'm not sure what the roster is any longer. Here's a summary of lastest plays and initial roster...

RowAndLive - etc.
MOTH - etc.
rrau - played before jb1964
jb1964 - Played prior to rrau
rrau - Played last

The Roster was...
rrau -
jb1964 -
Elmarae - has been sidelined due to computer. Currently solved.
RowAndLive - Has birthday party this weekend.
Durkz - skipped last time around
MOTH -

I can't take it before Sunday night or Monday as I've got my baby boy's 1st b-day party on Sunday afternoon and lots to do before then.

This would put us back around to rrau and then jb if they can get a turnset in before R&L.


jb, I believe you're up again. There's not much left to the mongols. Then I guess we could turn our attention to India. We currently have a rop with them that should expire early during Elmarae's turn. Also, if you can take out the last Iroquois, that would be good. They planted a spear on the isthmus and I couldn't get reinforcements to that peninsula with their last city. There should be a culture expansion soon and then demand they remove their troops.

I'm currently up in R&L03 so when I've done that I can take it here if someone hasn't already or whenever my turn comes around.

@Elmarae, you take the next set of turns.

okay, got it.

okay after 1 turn. I've taken 3 or 4 of Mongols cities. Leaving them just 2. We've reached 50k culture and 902 cpt so another 50 turns max till 100k. France's culture looks the same as ours. I'm unable to see what their culture value is or I'm not reading a graph right or something.

Anyway, a ploy that came to mind. England and France are the big puppies in this dogfight, but they aren't fighting each other, they aren't even allied against anyone. It appears they are ignoring each other. Well, I can ask France for a mutual protection pact. I have a wounded Cav near an English Cav. Sign the treaty and get England at war with France. Then we move to take Frances core. we need to start it within the next 20 turns. That would give us 30 turns of war to take Frances main culture cities.

Some civs are left with only 1 or two cities. Do we want to wipe them out or keep them as puppet states?

As far as puppet states, I'd normally say do what is most convenient at the moment, just remembering that it'll be harder to work the Liz vs Joan thing for the longer term if we go around wiping folks off the map. France is our big worry. Let's try the English thing, and skip the small stuff for now.

Aren't we at war w/ France at the moment?

I think we are at war with France right now, but they could give us peace.

France and England are taking apart the Vikings, India, and Babylon. We need to get England fighting France at any cost. We then get peace with France in exchange for a ROP. Move our forces to France's core and start dismantling them From within. I would also consider a second Palace Jump to Paris to disable any chance of a flip and greatly reduce the chance that any other city will flip.

We might be just barely doubling France's cpt right now, so unless we want to go to 150K culture we will need to eliminate France.
I note from the graph's that team Bede is over 100K in culture, so we are not the only ones fighting a culture behemoth. Lets hope team Ivan and/or Xteam is up against something with big culture too and we can still avoid the wooden spoons.

im sorry guys :( my motherbord got tired of life and i could not buy another one right away. i'm sorry if there were any problems with me not being here to play :blush: .
but from all of this one positive thing came out : trouble with school is over my grades have gone up (20 days withouth my compy can do wonders in school :) )

anyway im definetly good to play

Okay, I'll reduce mongols to one city, ask for peace with France for a MPP, hope that England attacks us. Move our forces north to the closest point of Frances core. Build lots of Galleys/settlers/cav. Oh btw I got a leader from Mongols so a Cav Army?

Edit: France won't accept a MMP with us... time to end the wars though? build up to advance on France's main core?

Cav army! I think peace will work for now. We have to figure out how to start the 100 years war.

Roster
Durkz
MOTH
rrau
Elmarae - currently playing
jb1964 - On Deck
RowAndLive

Are we doing 10 turns or 5 now?

I think it's whichever you want to do.

It's up to the individual's available time.

1255 AD
Culture: 50081 (902cpt)
Take Erdene, Ta-Tu, Oea. Generate a Leader

France gives us 240g for peace.
Peace with England

1260 AD
Culture: 51002 (921cpt)

Take Leptis Minor
Change alot of the 60-70 turn builds of cavalry into Workers and settlers.
Grassland with irrigation and rail produces 3 food which will help speed growth of corrupt cites.

1265 AD
Culture: 51925 (923cpt)
3 Times the game froze mid turn had to restart civ3. Resorted to going back to a previous save.

1270 AD
Culture: 52859 (934cpt)
Ask Babylon to stop using our territory as thoroughfare and they DECLARE! (just what I wanted)


1275 AD
Culture: 53801 (942cpt)
Take Sabratha

1280 AD
Culture: 54745 (944cpt)

1285 AD
Culture: 55704 (959cpt)
Finished Railway backbone to New Besancon
Galleons are starting to arrive to transport units across to Gewauga (In preparation of the attack on France)
Battle with the Babylonians generates another leader. Made into army and transported to Gewauga before loading troops.

1290 AD
Culture: 56685 (981cpt)

1295 AD
Culture: 57687 (1002cpt)
Electricity > Replaceable Parts

1300 AD
Culture: 58693 (1006cpt)

Some of the Galleons are still on goto orders.
France and England have MPP. They will have one with us as well. How would a MPP with England, then demand that France leaves our territory, they will likely declare. When they attack us, England attacks them?

Babylon won't talk peace yet, but they are also in a war with France and England so that's why we haven't been attacked recently.

- Roster -
Durkz - On deck
MOTH -
rrau -
jb1964 -
Elmarae - Just played
RowAndLive - Up

>>>SAVE<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_AD1300_01.SAV)

nice turns el
i think that when we sign MPP with England we should send a worker near their border than declare, but do nothing. when they capture our worker england should probaby side with us. we should try your way first but if that fail try it this way.
Anyway i dont know will this work but i will now simulate this situation using editor

Row, do you have it or do you need a skip?

Didn't realize that I was up.

Got it.

- After England takes out the Iro's, if they keep the city, was there something planned for our settler there?
- There's a whole lot of troops in Gewauga, and only 2 galleons, but a Brit destroyer there too. These are our invasion troops?
- Any objection to giving ELectricity to England for Espoinage? We don't have mush cash to use it now, but perhaps soon.

1300 – 0
I note the French frigate & galley in our canal, surrounded by undefended cities & single undefended workers. See that England has destroyers. I see our 2 armies N of India, and that England and France have infantry. See Elmarae’s Revenge army in E India at 2/5. Gewauga is full of troops, with only 2 galleons there.

The Iroquois only have 1 city, but are at war with England, who has 3 cav adjacent. Sayonara. Carthage is still at 1 city, and America is at two cities.

See England & France are up SciMeth, Espionage, Corporation, RepParts. India is up Espoinage, but down Electricity, and will trade it. England is also up Refining, Steel and Combustion, by virtue of having DDs. I wouldn’t be surprised to see bombers or BBs soon.

Sweep up all the loose cash amongst the poor folks by trading WMs around.
Sign MPP with Liz.

Demand that France leaves, and she does. :(

IBT: France & Viks sign peace treaty. Indian spear goes red killing a French infantry. England red-lines 2 of their cav, and takes the 3rd to 2, and doesn’t kill the Iro’s. Lots of ship movement.
Delhi settler > settler, Kyoto cav > cav, Osaka cannon > cannon, Tokyo cannon > cav, Kazan worker > worker, Nanking settler > worker, Alleghany library > worker, Eboracum cannon > cannon, Lindum cannon > cav, Cadiz library > worker, Curovernum 2 library > worker, Monguntiacum settler > worker, New Camulodunum cav > cav, New Richborough cav > cav, New Eboracum worker > worker, New Tolosa settler > worker, Lugdunum 2 worker > worker, Verulamium 2 worker > worker, Nemausus 2 worker > worker, Deva 2 library > cannon.

1305 – 1
We now have 7 settlers, and I have nary a clue where to found new cities.
There is an unescorted English leader 2 NW of Salamanca. Must… resist… … temptation…
Found New Tolosa 2 > temple, found New Lindum 2 > temple, lots of worker stuff.

Deamand of France again, and they declare! Now to give them an easy target, as if all of those cities weren’t enough… Park a worker near Chittagong.

IBT: French take Pujab from India, then kill Elmarae’s Revenge army with a cav, and capture thee bait worker. England declares on France. French destroyer shows up at Gewauga, where we have 4 undefended galleons, but can’t attack yet. She shows ironclads & transposrts elsewhere. Babylon, Iroquois & Viks all sign trade embargos against us.
Beijing worker > worker, Grand River worker > MDI, Richborough galleon > frigate, Chengdu settler > worker, Lahore settler > worker, New Entremont cannon > cannon, Hangchow settler > worker, Tatung worker > worker, Lapurdum cav > cav, Nemausus worker > worker, Glanum cav > cav, Segusio worker > worker, Kaifeng worker > worker, Ningpo worker > worker, Lezoux worker > cannon, New Augustodorum worker > worker, New Burdigalia worker > worker, New Curovernum worker > worker, Camulodunum 2 worker > worker, Richborough 2 worker > worker, Eboracum 2 worker > worker.
Karakorum riots > taxman.

1310 – 2
See the suggested LZ. This should get 16 units over. I’m thinking 15 cavs & 1 cannon, to maximize defense, given the close position to Paris. We’ll likely lose a galleon or 4, so we’ll see. Input?

Will that be enough against probable infantry? What do you think of waiting a turn or two for France to burn their troops vs England?

Sorry should have explained so of the other things I was planning but I was tired. The settlers near our LZ we to settle in the jungle for ICS. The other settlers are to ICS in France to alleviate flipping. The armies I was trying to walk to Frances border. Hopefully they would make it before being demanded to move.

Yeah, 2 of the 3 got there. Revenge got killed off, but only had 1 cav loaded. France is currently at was with Us, England, Babylon and India, but India and Babylon are gassed. Hopefully England will start to participate, as their fleets have left each other alone for the first turn & IBT.

Revenge was supposed to be in Gewanda not wandering the countryside. It was supposed to be the beachhead for our landing, I was only going to load 3 cavs in it. :/ Oh well... thats what I get for using goto orders that don't expire at the end of my set :)

I imagine France has an insane number of infantry. Any chance of plopping down a town and mixing in some defensive units in hopes that Joan will dash a number of infantry against our newly formed gates?

That would involve 3 turns. One to move the settler there. Seeing as we only have 4 Galleons there that would mean 14 Cav, 1 Settler, 1 Cannon. We would need walls asap so that would probably mean disbanding a Galleon or Cav.

Turn 1: Land Settler then survive the counter attack.
Turn 2: Build City start walls, Disband unit to pay for walls.
Turn 3: Build Walls then start Temple to hold back the culture rush.

Probably the better way to have done the whole get France and England fighting would have been. (Hindsight is always perfect :P)

Turn 1: Land Settler with forces. France tells us to leave, we say we will. (unless it's the automatic one then it's the same as before.)
Turn 2: Build town, thus declaring war on France but not attacking. Not sure if this will activate the MPP against us. Pretty sure it results from an attack, not the declaration.
Turn 3: Build Walls.

That would only result in one round of attacks before we get walls up rather than 2.

With the French war. Are we going to go for Razing except for Paris? Or is the Pyramids a necessity now? 20 turns of double production in all our cities with a risk of a flip.

I would keep Paris and take the population down to 1 once the resistors have been quelled. If it's still going to be a big risk flip then weigh the culture benefit vs the garrison costs.

We could also plan another Palace Jump to Paris. This will go a long way to preventing flips in other nearby cities.

1300 – 0
I note the French frigate & galley in our canal, surrounded by undefended cities & single undefended workers. See that England has destroyers. I see our 2 armies N of India, and that England and France have infantry. See Elmarae’s Revenge army in E India at 2/5. Gewauga is full of troops, with only 2 galleons there.

The Iroquois only have 1 city, but are at war with England, who has 3 cav adjacent. Sayonara. Carthage is still at 1 city, and America is at two cities.

See England & France are up SciMeth, Espionage, Corporation, RepParts. India is up Espoinage, but down Electricity, and will trade it. England is also up Refining, Steel and Combustion, by virtue of having DDs. I wouldn’t be surprised to see bombers or BBs soon.

Sweep up all the loose cash amongst the poor folks by trading WMs around.
Sign MPP with Liz.

Demand that France leaves, and she does. :(

IBT: France & Viks sign peace treaty. Indian spear goes red killing a French infantry. England red-lines 2 of their cav, and takes the 3rd to 2, and doesn’t kill the Iro’s. Lots of ship movement.
Delhi settler > settler, Kyoto cav > cav, Osaka cannon > cannon, Tokyo cannon > cav, Kazan worker > worker, Nanking settler > worker, Alleghany library > worker, Eboracum cannon > cannon, Lindum cannon > cav, Cadiz library > worker, Curovernum 2 library > worker, Monguntiacum settler > worker, New Camulodunum cav > cav, New Richborough cav > cav, New Eboracum worker > worker, New Tolosa settler > worker, Lugdunum 2 worker > worker, Verulamium 2 worker > worker, Nemausus 2 worker > worker, Deva 2 library > cannon.

1305 – 1
We now have 7 settlers, and I have nary a clue where to found new cities.
There is an unescorted English leader 2 NW of Salamanca. Must… resist… … temptation…
Found New Tolosa 2 > temple, found New Lindum 2 > temple, lots of worker stuff.

Deamand of France again, and they declare! Now to give them an easy target, as if all of those cities weren’t enough… Park a worker near Chittagong.

IBT: French take Pujab from India, then kill Elmarae’s Revenge army with a cav, and capture thee bait worker. England declares on France. French destroyer shows up at Gewauga, where we have 4 undefended galleons, but can’t attack yet. She shows ironclads & transposrts elsewhere. Babylon, Iroquois & Viks all sign trade embargos against us.
Beijing worker > worker, Grand River worker > MDI, Richborough galleon > frigate, Chengdu settler > worker, Lahore settler > worker, New Entremont cannon > cannon, Hangchow settler > worker, Tatung worker > worker, Lapurdum cav > cav, Nemausus worker > worker, Glanum cav > cav, Segusio worker > worker, Kaifeng worker > worker, Ningpo worker > worker, Lezoux worker > cannon, New Augustodorum worker > worker, New Burdigalia worker > worker, New Curovernum worker > worker, Camulodunum 2 worker > worker, Richborough 2 worker > worker, Eboracum 2 worker > worker.
Karakorum riots > taxman.

1310 – 2
@Gewauga: Realize that I can’t get 16 there this turn, as 2 galleons weren’t loaded. Load galleons & hide them in Gewauga. Cannons take 3 off French vDD.
@Gregovia: Cannons take 2 off Frigate.
@ Fr. Border: 12/20 Army -5 kills unforted vGuerilla.
@Hyderabad: cannon takes 1 off vCav, vCav -0 vills 3/4 Cav & promotes, rCav captures Iro worker back, vCav dies taking 1 off 4/5 Cav, vCav -0 kills 3/5 Cav. Move many reinforcements to Hyderabad.
Upgrade musket to rifle. Upgrade knight to cav.
Change Satsuma & Cataractonium from galleons to frigates.

Position some settlers. Settler @ New Rouen headed NNW before founding to grab silks.

IBT: England & Viks declare peace. England & America MA vs France. America ends trade embargo against us. English MoW dies attacking 1/4 DD. English rifle goes red capturing Gayagaahe. Iro’s gone. Iroquois & Babylon end trade embargo against us. A rGalleon kills 1/4 French DD & promotes! :dance: We lose 1 rCav & 1 vCav to 1 vInf, 1 eCav, and lose worker again @ Hyderabad.
Babs ask for peace, but won’t give anything – no, I want rep parts.
Salamanca worker > cannon, Tientsin worker > worker, Sapporo cav > cav, Dalandzadgad worker > worker, Isca worker > cannon, Deva settler > settler, Entremont cannon > cav, New Verulamium cannon > cav, Lapurdum 2 library > cannon

Machiavelli rates us as the most powerful, followed by France, England, Babylon, :viking:, India, America & Carthage.

1315 – 3
Found New Nemausus 2 > temple. Found New Curovernum 2 > temple. Found New Glanum 2 > temple. Found New Isca 2 > temple.
@New Delhi: See Fr. Leader Richelieu. Rrau’s Army -5 kills inf & captures New Delhi > temple.

Notes:
I’ve set the stage for the next player, as I can not continue at this time.
- Invasion fleet of 15 cav (12 elite) & 1 cannon are @ Gewauga, plus many other units.
- 3 more galleons at New Besancon, with plenty of troops there too. (20 cav, 1 cannon)

- 1 cav blocking neck at New Lugdunum 2.
- It may be tempting to have Rrau’s army take out the leader & abandon the town.
- There is the other army @ 7/20 6 tiles SW of there & 2 cavs 8 S of here.
- All other troops that could be mustered are @ Hyderabad awaiting orders, as this is where French units seem to be swarming to. (7 cannon, 11 cav, 2 rifles, 1 MDI. The cav SW of town only has 1 move left.)
- English & French fleets are still mostly ignoring one another, but they have scuffled, and both are out in force, with transports & galleons.
- Our canal can be reached by rail from both big troop gatherings, but has precious little navy for defense. Building a few frigates there.

Who is up once Row finishes his turns? Not sure of the validity of the last roster.

Good going so far.

I think Durkz is up now.

I need to go on skip for the next 3.5 weeks. I'm leaving on vacation in 1 weeks time and won't have a chance to play any turns in this until after I return.

Roster -
Durkz - UP
MOTH - On Deck
rrau -
jb1964 -
Elmarae -
RowAndLive - kind of played

ok got it, but do we play 10 or 5 turns?

durkz, you play whatever you are comfortable with.

R&L, I need to be dropped from the roster for the next 3.5 weeks. We'll probably be done by then.

Acknowledged, MOTH. Thanks for being on the team!

Durkz, as stted, play what you are comfortable or able, 5 or 10. Thanks for asking.

Something that I read in a couple of 100k culture strategies is that war halves your culture production, is that true?

I think Communism and Fascism halve culture production in C3C. Not a problem at all if we stay in Despotism.

Being at war does not halve you culture per turn.. what havles culture per turn is mobilization.
Communism or fascism doesnt halve your culture production either.. however when in fascism you cannot produce any culture in cities where not atleast half the citizens are yours

Gyathaar's rigth
we should definetly stay in Despo because if we revolt we will get 8-9 turn anarchy. that's 8000 cpt. to waste for biger production.

we weren't going to change govt. Communism in PTW is worse than Despot in this situation. I just wanted to understand the culture reduction. Now that I know it's caused by Mobilisation I feel less alarmist.

turn0 1315 AD---Move galeons towards that mountain in france. knight army (from N. delhi) killes that French leader (im to scared of a Inf army :D), i moved that injured cav army in new delhy to protect it . Captured chittagong while not losing any units (1 elitecav killed 1 vetInf). Capture punjab 2 cavs were protecting it.

IBt- galeon wich was transporting settler & 3 cavs gets destroyed, but the 4 gal with cavalary dont get attacked. Destroyers are realy awsome here they have 17 moves in ocean and 9 in sea.

turn1 1320 AD---Done some temple rushing. 10 vet infs apear near punjab (mostly mountains & hills) it will be hard to kill them. Preparing to have a stand against those infs. Unloaded 15 cavs on the mountanin. trying to get another settler to france. Lot of worker jobs done.

IBT- settler galeon made it to the Gewagua. our transports were left alone this time. lot of fighting between english and french navies. 10 Infantries have died attacking our cannon-rifleman-cavalary-mountain-across the river-lucky-combo.

turn2 1325 AD---Our troops have not been attacked and we captured & razed the first french-mainland city (I razed it and forgot the name:)). it had only 2 infantries in it and one cavalary, on the bad side it was on the hill and we lost 4 cavalries to capture it. we also captured new calcuta and our armies captured ganges.

IBt-destroyer attacks our empty galeon and destroyes it

turn3 1330 AD---Captured dacca. Unloaded settler transport on french mainland. rushed 2 temples...

IBt- our galeons get easily destroyed.

turn4 1335 AD---Founded D-Dayville disbanded 1 cavalry to build walls. there are two destroyers stationed in strasbourg wich are destroying our galens, razed strasbourg because of that but we are runing out of cavalry because we lost 5-6 (they didnt want to retreat :() in this attack.

IBT- nothin much. it seems that france cant build more infantry because in the battles for d-dayville they have only attacked us with cavalry.

turn5 1340 AD---LOT of worker task is given. I managed to unload more troops to the beachead. we captured chartress but lost cavalry army (i attacked a vet infantry with it and it keept losing and would not retreat:().

we are curently making 1057 CPT and have 66979 C
and have income of magnificent 0 g :D and have 420 g

score 4471 (firaxis)

got it......

<<<THE SAVE>>> (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_AD1395_01.SAV)

preflight (1340ad)

Changed longbows to other builds. They won't be any help against infantry.
Rushed a couple culture buildings
Sold Democracy to Carthage for WM & 160g

ibt:

France landed a single cav on the Tyendenaga/Caughawa island and we have NO units there. :cry:

turn 1 (1345ad)

Rushed a galleon to get troops to Tyendenaga/Caughawa island next turn
not much - picked off a couple wounded cavs near our city on the French Mainland

ibt:

Vikings and England signed MA against France.
Trade Embargo against us between Babylon and Scandinavia ended
Babylon DoW on Vikings
We lost 3 of our 4 galleons :mad: :cry:
Tyendenaga was captured :mad:
New Dehli was captured :mad:
India and Babylon signed MA against Vikings

turn 2 (1350ad)

recaptured New Dehli

turn 3 (1355ad)

a lot of worker actions
Picked off a couple Babylonian troops

ibt: Russadir (England) Flipped to us :D

turn 4 (1360ad)

Captured Brest (French)

ibt:

Babylon and England signed Peace treaty

turn 5 (1370ad)

Captured Norrkoping (french)

turn 6 (1375ad)

not much. I'm pretty much holding steady and waiting for our MMP with England to expire. We don't have the units to go on the offensive right now.

turn 7 (1380ad)

picked off some Babylonian units

turn 8 (1385ad)

picked off some Babylonian and French units

turn 9 (1390ad)

Picked off more Babylonian and French units.

ibt:

Vikings and India made peace
England and France signed a peace treaty (our MMP expired)
A regular ironclad defends against two attacking French destroyers - renamed Victory

turn 10 (1395ad)

Peace with Babylon. Only get their WM and 2g. No tech deals available
Decide to pick off some French units before the end of my turn. Get the Great Leader Boudicca. Waiting in the capital. Options: Army, University somewhere, factory somewhere, or aquaduct in Yokohama (very productive city and it needs one - this is my vote, but it's up to the next person)

France will talk peace - I think we need to make peace or we'll lose our beach head city - I'm amazed it lasted all 10 of my turns without me able to get reinforcements there.

Total Culture: 79384
Cpt: 1198

I'm not sure if we'll get back around to me, so I named my elite cav: RRau's Last Stand. :p

Here's the best deal I could get with France

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sgotm6R&L1395ad.jpg

Just a thought if we do stay at war. Start razing all captured cities to prevent recapture, remove need for garrisons, lower French unit support, culture builds, etc.

It won't help us as fast, but it should make the was easier.

Well done rrau. If only I could get my turns to go as fast and smooth...


Roster -
Durkz -
MOTH - <skip>
rrau - well done
jb1964 - UP
Elmarae - On Deck
RowAndLive -

I agree with Peace with France. Lets see if they will revolt again and switch back to Democracy. As soon as they come out of Anarchy we hit them again with a ROP rape of Paris. They will then switch back to Communism again.

They got a 2 turn anarchy on the way into Communism so cost them a few thousand culture. As it is right now we are just more than doubling France's CPT, so we have a long way to go before this game will be over.

Ok, I did a little investigation with CrpViewer and I have performed some analysis:

1. France spent several turns in Mobilization getting 50% culture per turn of around 270cpt. Right now they are getting 537 cpt.
2. We are getting about 1200 cpt.
3. Math states that with no change in cpt we would need to go about another 260 turns.
4. If France stays Mobilized we only need to go another 48 turns.
5. Anarachy turns reduce the number of turns til victory by about 1/2 turn per anarachy turn.
6. Ours and France's cpt will keep increasing somewhat due to doubling and new culture.

So, if we take peace with France, keep it short. See if we can get an ROP as part of the peace deal so we can position quickly for another strike. Hopefully France will quickly revolt back to Demo and we can get 2 anarchies while we prepare for another slaughter.

We definately need peace to reinvorce DDayville from which we can launch our rop rape. We don't have many cav left in DDayville.

OK, I'm up. I'll turn this around as quickly as I can.

Nice turns.

Get the Great Leader Boudicca. Waiting in the capital. Options: Army, University somewhere, factory somewhere, or aquaduct in Yokohama (very productive city and it needs one - this is my vote, but it's up to the next person)

BTW, any concensus how to use the GL?

I'm not keen on the aqua on Yoko as that's 250s to hit a 100s fly. A bank in Kyoto would be a good use as well (16gpt). How about 250s towards MilAcad? Thoughts, opinions, conjecture, wild guesses?

I'm leaning towards anything that would help put a dent in France. Army or Military Academy?

Considering that MGL can't hurry wonders (in this variant). I vote for Army.

Kyoto will take 11 turns to build the Mil Acd. Then about 10 turns to build an Army.

MGL > Army
Kyoto > Mil Acd > Army

Update: I'm through turn 4 and we're landing just about every stinking unit we have in the beachhead city. France has not switched governments as they're still at war with the Vikes. The Vikes are going to fold very soon.

I switched many of the wealth cities to workers as we have plenty of tiles in need of attention and the existing 165 workers are plenty busy with improving the Kyoto core and nearby cities. We'll eventually be chopping and clearing lands for irrigation in the far away place for culture rushes. And you can't have enough workers for that task.

I have changed some builds in the core cities to markets and banks to generate additional revenues as we were running a deficit.

The GL has become an Calvery Army and is floating towards France at this very moment.

Primary Objective: Take out France.

Notes:
Beyond Rep. Parts we wont be getting a militarily significant tech until Motor. We wont have the cash to self research for the remainder of the game. Our luxes and resources are now worthless on the open market so the only way we're going to get tech advances is with pointy stick research vs. either France, England or Babylon. And since taking on England or Babylon is counter productive I just don't see any tech advance in the near term. (America, Carthage, India & the Vikes will be doing min research for the remainder of the game.)

I would like to pounce on Joan as soon as she gets through a switch to Demo but would consider an earlier move the moment I saw a single tank.

The only other scenario I can envision to gather techs is to strike either England or Babylon in the event that Joan ravages them into a very weakened state where we could quickly extort Motor.

More later... Got to go to a mind-numbing meeting... :confused:

BTW, I'm finally seeing some dissention in the cities that have been whipped silly.

Lizzy is running cavalry through our territory. Any harm in giving her a RoP so she'll quit plugging the roads?

i think that there is no harm in signing rop with her :)

Not a problem, but I'd feel better with an MA or MPP too.

I'm somewhat dubious about a ROP with Lizzy, unless we can seal of the majority of our lands to the south, we have an awful lot of cities with no defence and that would be tempting to the AI to backstab us. If a line of workers were placed along the border where India is/was then I don't see a problem with giving her a ROP. There shouldn't be any reason she needs to get to the South band of the Pangea, we own it all.

I'm with Elmarae on this one.

what about doing "get the #&@##$# from our terrioty" a few times maybe she'l stop coming :)

Though I see nothing wrong with. RoP with France and England. Move most of our forces to resources and Cities. and declare on both at once. Do this all in the same turn so that the AI doesn't get to use the benefit of the RoP.

To hell with our rep. We want to win :)

The Save, 1445 AD (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_AD1445_01.SAV)

Turn 0 – 1395 AD
Switching some cavalry to banks to increase our revenues.
Peace w/ Joan for RoP (Rape!) and 720g. She would not part w/ any tech nor would she consider forfeiting a city. We could have gotten Espionage if we threw in some gold but we’ll never be able to generate the cash needed to make that tech worthwhile.
The GL becomes an Army.

IBT: Lots of French naval forces rolling around.

Turn 1 – 1400 AD
England leaves a GL standing alone in our territory. Man, I would love to bag this guy.
France is still commie and I doubt they’ll switch being at war w/ two other civs. Then again the Vikes and Carthage are not long for this world. I consider giving Ragnar iron but he won’t take it for nothing. I think our rep might be a tad bit tarnished.
The kitchen sink is floating towards France.
Scrub the back 40 for stray units no longer needed as MP’s or for barb patrol.
This might not have been kosher but I rush some settlers.

Trades: India will likely get Corp or Elect soon. We trade Elect for Esp, 110g and 15gpt. Nobody else will talk to us or they’re dirt poor and stupid. Like many of my relatives. Joan, Hammy and Liz are up plenty of techs.

Turn 2 – 1405 AD
France is still Commie.
Worker moves galore and still floating nearly everything to the beachhead.

IBT: France and Carthage make nice. Agedincum2 (English) flips to us.

Turn 3 – 1410 AD
See turn 2.

IBT: Hammy and Hannibal smoke the pipe.

Turn 4 – 1415 AD
Vikes are down to three cities.
See turn 2.

IBT: The English and Babs are killing each other on the high seas. The English have better boats.

Turn 5 – 1420 AD
See turn 2.

Turn 6 – 1425 AD
See turn 2.

Turn 7 – 1430 AD
See turn 2.

IBT: Vikings are dead at the hands of a saint. The French are building ToE.

Turn 8 – 1435 AD
France is no longer at war but is hanging onto the Commie government.
I have been popping many a cathedral and we’re ending this turn running a –2gpt at 0%/0%.
Lizzy will take an MPP for saltpeter but is currently embroiled in a war w/ Hammy.
We have 36 cavalry, 17 cannons, a cavalry army and a rifle at the beachhead. There are very few units left on the mainland. I would like to pick a fight, ok… backstab, Joan after she switches back to Demo but sitting on all these units and only adding 4, or so, a turn is probably losing ground for us.

Turn 9 – 1440 AD
See turn 2.

Turn 10 – 1445 AD
I now have had two crashes.
OK, France is still in commie.
MM’ed some cities putting out <20spt to just over.
We have added a few more troops to the stack.
I’ll glean the cities for potential pops.
Treasury is at 1,468g w/ +12gpt. Keep putting markets and banks in the core cities.
Culture is at 91,858. Not sure about the ramp rate.
France’s culture is at 60,932.

The Save, 1445 AD (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/RowAndLive_SG006_AD1445_01.SAV)

Nice turns. And a nice set up for Elmarae :hammer:

[edit] At least I think she's up next.

Expect a riot here and there as the ICS cities are finally getting a bit touchy about all the human sacrifices.

I hate it when that happens.

Give 'em heck Elmarae!

Roster -
Durkz -
MOTH -
rrau - well done
jb1964 - keeping the sink in the right place
Elmarae - UP
RowAndLive - On Deck

Oh goody... I get to win the game if I can wipe France's nose. Our gain should be in the region of 1k per turn so by turn 7 or 8 we should win this if I can knock 10k off france.

Btw how do you tell that France's Culture is?

I would guess through Mapstat, though I don't personally use it.

I'm hoping for some magic from you, Elmarae, as that's about the only way to keep from winning the spoons from Ivan (assuming this his game won't be dragged out by a high French or English culture). X-Team may be the only one to actually hit 100k without going over.

I see that Elmarae has signed up for SGoTM7, and shows a willingness to rejoin Team Row. I must apologize for my abysmal lack of ability to really take part in SG6, and for a total lack of leadership as regards the victory conditions. Unfortunately I had NO prior experience with 100k. I had originally planned on dropping from SG7 so as to not hold you back as a team. However, if there is a desire to keep Team Row alive, then I am willing to stay, and commit to making more playing time. Please advise your status here regarding SG7, and don't feel pressured to go one way or the other. If it does not work out, then I will still ask to see you all again in R&L04. Thank you. :)

There's a signup for the next game? *goes to read threads*

Will razing Frances cities drop her culture total? Or does the total remain there? I thought it was a sum of the culture total of all cities so if you lose the city you lose the culture.

I think the culture remains until the last Frenchman is dead.

[edit] :eek: The next sgotm is always war deity!!!!!!!!. Umm.... I've never won a deity game or played an always war game. If there's enough interest to go in as a team, I'll play, but otherwise I'll probably sit that one out.

Elmarae, when you start capturing and/or razing French cities let us know the affect on culture.

BTW, I was using MapStat to get the culture numbers for the French.

I think rrau is correct about the culture. It's like the Firaxis score, once earned it stays. You will slow their cpt rate by destroying their cultural buildings but not reduce their overall culture, until they are eliminated.

I think rrau is correct about the culture. It's like the Firaxis score, once earned it stays. You will slow their cpt rate by destroying their cultural buildings but not reduce their overall culture, until they are eliminated.
This is correct. Incidentally the bit about the Fraxis score is a little different than how Gator described it. The Fraxis score is an average of each and every played turn's score. That's the major reason why in order to do well in xOTM, it is important to get to just under the domination limit as quick as possible regardless of vicotry condition. Best bet for speeding up the victory is to wipe them completely out. Razing vs. keeping doesn't matter too much except wonder cities since all culture buildings are destroyed upon capture. Good Luck!!!

I think rrau is correct about the culture. It's like the Firaxis score, once earned it stays. You will slow their cpt rate by destroying their cultural buildings but not reduce their overall culture, until they are eliminated.

Culture and Firaxis score do not behave quite the same.

Culture is the sum of culture per turn over the game. If a city is lost its culture per turn ceases to contribute to the civs cpt, but culture per turn can never go negative, and as long as the capital exists there's at least +1cpt from the Palace. So culture can stop growing (settler on a boat), or drop to zero when the civ is exterminated, but can never decrease for a live civ.

Firaxis score is the average of points scored for all turns. If you start losing territory or citizens your per turn score will decrease. If it drops enough then eventually the average, and therefore the Firaxis score, will start to decrease. We saw this effect in the SGOTM3 game results. Here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php?game=20003&displayteams=displayteams&include%5B%5D=Sesn&include%5B%5D=Handy&include%5B%5D=akots&include%5B%5D=Mistfit&format=sgotm_graph.php&enddate=1450&submit=Refresh#format) are some graphs showing Firaxis scores declining at the end of the game.

and as long as the capital exists there's at least +1cpt from the Palace.
I have seen civs have 0 cpt for extended periods of time. Does the capital have to be the original capital (or at least one where the palace has been built)?

I have seen civs have 0 cpt for extended periods of time.
How did you measure it?

Via Mapstat. I realize rumor has it that it is sometimes off in it's calculations, but I once had a civ reduced to OCC and it didn't accumulate culture any culture.

I went back and looked at a couple of saves and the civ actually reduced it's culture total. Again via MapStat. The (+xxx) displayed (+0) but if you look at the culture total it actually goes down by about 100 cuture points.

People using Mapstat in various teams reported total culture dropping from time to time. This hasn't been reported with CivAssist.

I did not know that Firaxis score could be lost. Learned something new. I would say I've not experienced it, but since I own a Spoon from the game Alan was so nice to reference, I'd be lying.

BTW, that settler on a boat is evil sometimes. In a prior xOTM I had a city flip to the settler on about that had been adrift for several hundred years. So I recaptured the city, still couldn't find the settler on a boat and after a bunch of turns I had another city flip.

We now return this thread back to Team Row ;)

Via Mapstat. I realize rumor has it that it is sometimes off in it's calculations, but I once had a civ reduced to OCC and it didn't accumulate culture any culture.

I went back and looked at a couple of saves and the civ actually reduced it's culture total. Again via MapStat. The (+xxx) displayed (+0) but if you look at the culture total it actually goes down by about 100 cuture points.
I'll just follow up on this and then drop out of R&Ls thread and let them get on with their game. To avoid giving spoiler data, Mapstat tries to emulate the result you would get by pixel counting on the F8 screen and using your own known culture from F5 for each turn to estimate that of other civs. Pixel counting is a rather blunt instrument, and the graph is showing relative culture, not absolute. Rounding errors are very likely to produce distorted results, with apparent negative cpt from time to time. I would also be very surprised if this technique could tell the difference between zero cpt and +1 cpt.

It is actually possible to make 0cpt.. but only if in fascism, and your capital has more foreign citizens than native citizens :p
Reason CRpMapStat will report 0cpt is usually because it rounds off the culture of the AIs to the pixels in the culture graph (to not give spolier info you cant figure out yourself by counting pixels)

Sorry about the delay, I've asked Max-Bax a question about the game and I'm waiting for a reply.

France has 48 Cities, her culture won't go down until we eliminate her completely.

Her Culture is currently at 60,932 so we will need to get 121,864 to win.

Our Culture is 91,858 and gaining 1305cpt. So that's 23 turns to win minimum.

If we could raze 3 french cities a turn then that's 16 turns. 4 cities is 12 turns.

No Civ's have MMP with any other civ.
England is at war with Babylon.
India is a war with America and Carthage.
Babylon is at war with England and America.

So if I want to start a dogpile against France. I will have to risk a MMP with Babylon and England and hope they don't fight each other. I think the best choice is MMP with England as they move first. Then France then Babylon.

we dont have to have 120K culture we just need to get over 100K and eliminate france

Sorry, I meant to win with france still in the game we would need 120k+.

Oh come on. Don't win the wooden spoonn just because you didn't finish. Somebody take it and play please.

el do you need a skip?

I don't think an unfinished game will be eligible for any award ;)

well crap all we had to do is stop playing then.... :crazyeye:

What?!?! You mean you weren't targeting the spoons?

I PM'ed Elmarae earlier today. If there is no response by tomorrow, we'll skip.

I got the reply from M-B, I was asking if it was okay to use C3C to find out the culture of France. It's not because it's not a free program and not everyone has access to it. Playing the Set now. In about 3-4 hours I should have it done.

Have any of the other teams finished? For some reason those pages are locked out to me here at work.

Have any of the other teams finished?I think that ALL of the other teams are finished. You guys are the last hold outs.

BTW, tomorrow the results are out. Better get cracking!!

Elmarae can you post what you have? If no one else can get out 10 turns tonight, I can.

rrau,

Unless someone will be waiting to take it over, why don't you see if you can finish. I'm guessing it'll be less than 25 turns.

Well, I don't see Elmarae's save. I guess we won't finish.

It is a pity. I will not publish the results until late tonight. I hope something happens before then.

The final saves are now displaying on the graphs, and the tables show the final dates. But you can still upload your final save at any time.

I downloaded the 1445 save and the patch. I'll see how much I can do sitting in airports today.

shift-enter will be your friend as long as you guys aren't at war.

Well, I'm sitting here in the airport and tried to install c3c, but forgot my civ disk, so I won't be able to finish it.

i will finish tonight

Great. In that case I'll wait for you. :)

it's done just to upload it :)

turn1 position troops for a rop rape. Cannons to paris, 2/3 of units to paris. Rop rape and we take & raze paris (paris was giving 10% of the french culture 58 CPT). paris was tough and we lost 10 cavlaries there but it was worth it. the other towns are lightly defende (2 vet inf and somtimes a conscript one). I will automate workers (no altering) because they have litle impact on the game now and we have no time. Got English and babs to declare on france.

turn4 RIFLES APEARD!!! France cant build infantry!!! Bad thing is that im runing out of units. I will try to raze as many of the culture rich towns as can and then sit and wait for the duble.

turn6 or 7 take orleans, army died but we get a leader the same turn.

turnx i rushed 32 libraries and 4 temples all in one turn ~ 104 CPT

turnx+n i go barb hunting and get us 25 g :D. the conquest of france is slowed down because i lost most of the units (3 armys left and about 7-8 cavs guarding the cities) and i cant get new units to the french front because of the destroyers (by sea) and because there are some indian units cloging the botlleneck in england. But hte goo thing is that i upgraded cannons in to arty and arty rocks :).

turnx+n+y french are cracking and it will be over soon...
finaly in the end i make peace with french and take their 5 cities and then redeclare and destroy them...

score 8835 (firaxis)
score 7357 (jason)
culture 119437

finaly... :)

I tried to minimize on time and didnt write log in detail but even with automated workers i spent 5 hours to maybe 17-20 turns (and i realy have a headache :suicide: and my right eye started to twich :dubious: )

Well done Durkz and team. You just missed out on an award. :( ;)

The results page should show the awards now.

Way to finish it up. Congrats. :goodjob:

Nicely done Durkz! :thumbsup:

Thank you again all for a game well played!! It was my first 100k (kind of), and I appreciate your leading me through it! The contributions of everyone are very much appreciated. I look forward to the chance to SG with you all again soon. :)

@Durkz: :worship: Way to persevere and finish it for us.

well i felt partialy that it was my fault that we didnt finish because i droped out two times :blush: and i had to reedeem myself ;)

Well done. Thanks for the fun.

I won't be able to sign up for any SG's for some time to come. Hope to see you around soon.

Best regards,

John

Sorry team, I let you down. I had neglected to pay my phone bill this month, I've only just got back online.

I will try to be more diligent in my bill paying from now on. :blush:

Great job all. I'm online at a sandwich shop waiting for lunch. The first WIFI i've found that's free.