I thought it might be fun to try out Sid finally. I've never won one yet, and haven't actually given it a really serious try yet. This game would be similar to Sir Bugsy's recent game, Sid Virgin Sacrifice, in that I only want to play with people who have yet to conquer Sid. Hopefully, playing at this level will push everyone's level of play higher to match, which is specifically why I want to try it. And there is nothing like a glorious loss to teach better play.

I haven't seen Carthage tried, though I haven't looked terribly hard, so I was thinking we might try them. Good set of traits, mediocre UU though it may come in handy if we initially lack iron.

Start used:

Save, 4000 BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05c.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05c.jpg

Roster:
Cuivienen
dl123654
Kaiser_Berger
gozpel
ThERat
bed_head7

possible sub:
Gato Loco

I would be interested in playing this game. I played and won my own Sid game once, but it was a 6 ( :eek: ) cow start and so hardly a Sid-level game.

I don't know that I'd be most interested in Carthage, though. Maybe the Netherlands or Byzantines or England or France; all have solid trait combinations. I just finished a game as Carthage.

Rules can be bent a bit as far as who plays. I did NOT want a six cow start, as a recent HoF game (well, my only one at this point) showed how easy a game can be with six cows. I do want to play with a civ mostly new to Sid, so I'd rather avoid Netherlands, France, and England. England is currently being played, France recently beaten by Bugsy's team, and I know of two games as Netherlands. I'd be open to the Byzantines as well, though, if Carthage is an unpopular choice.

If you do decide to join Cuivienen, I hope you know that this means you need to stick around the whole game, or at least let us know if you have to leave. You joined Goz4 and Ank13 and then disappeared without notice in both games.

Sounds like a good game to lose :rolleyes: , I'll join, have a few deity wins already, never tried Sid though.

Good to have you, dl123654, but I am having trouble getting where your sarcasm is directed.

Roster:
Cuivienen
dl123654
open spot
open spot
bed_head7

Yes, I know I have a bad record for staying around. I'll really try to stick with it this time.

Alright. Do either of you have any preferences on where you are placed? dl123654, how do feel about Carthage? I will go last, as I have played (actually, just built two curraghs and scouted with worker) up until 3000 BC.

The closest I've come to a Sid victory was a game as the Sumerians that got bogged down in the Industrial Age with a runaway Netherlands right on my doorstep :rolleyes:

With that said, I'll join up and see what we what this one brings.

Great! But same questions I asked above. Any other preferences for our civ, our placement in roster. I'd like the person with the strongest opening play to start off.

Roster:
Cuivienen
dl123654
Kaiser_Berger
open spot
bed_head7

I shouldn't join another game when I'm in too many already. But I can't resist another try on SID. :)

Won only once myself, as Carthage actually, but I don't mind playing them again.

edit: Btw, I'm the strongest opening player in the world. Well, in my world at least. :lol: Anyways, 20 cities by 1000bc in normal games is a standard for me, but somehow I don't think we can aim for that here. Not even with a food bonus.

One cow would've been better than that tired wheat on plains, but I've seen worse starts.

Well, per my original post, that means you can't play. So I guess that means you'll be leading off, gozpel?

Yes, it isn't great, and right now I can't remember what the other food bonus is in the area is. I am thinking I might want a bit better map for this attempt at Sid. In fact, I will go back and get some more.

By the way, I am always open to a sixth if there is anyone else out there itching to test out Sid. An extra mind can't hurt.

So, I'm opening up Conquests again and getting some maps. And will get a few civs, if possible, as it seems Carthage has been used. Was that in a solo game, or an SG I haven't ever heard about?

Hmm, was both those sentences directed to me? They kinda tell me to bugger off and start at the same time?

Winning once with your own big island on archie and the AI cramped up here and there doesn't really count. It was just a lucky map and playing in a SG is different.

I'm happy to start it, any thoughts before I go bezerk and do something I shouldn't, by anyone else's standards? :)

I firmly believe in building a settler before a granary, for example. After a couple of warriors of course.

you know bedhead, how itchy my fingers are. but I am in 11 games right now :eek:
it's managable still. I have won SID myself with Dutch (but on my own Island with somewhat lucky settings), but still a virgin too. Would I like to or not? :confused:
maybe I could be a sub player? :lol:

gozpel, both were directed at you, but of course you are in. And I said you'd start it off because we generally have the same starting philosophy, though I would build a curragh first instead of warrior.

The comment in the following post was directed at you, ThERat, as I was surprised you hadn't signed up yet. Of course, having 11 SGs is certainly a reason not to join, so you can be a stand in.

I have given up on finding a civ new to Sid that would also be successful, so everyone, feel free to make a case for any civ in particular. I may soon take a break from map searching to play Mic7.

Roster:
gozpel
Cuivienen
dl123654
Kaiser_Berger
bed_head7
1st sub: ThERat

The comment in the following post was directed at you, ThERat, as I was surprised you hadn't signed up yet. that sounds nice actually. Ok, sign me up as regular then. I think some SG's will soon end and I can manage still. It helps a lot that I live here without my family, no aunts and uncles ect to entertain :lol: more time for C3C

Well, you showed so much enthusiasm in joining the last two of mine, and as far as I knew you were a Sid virgin, though I am apparently wrong.

I am going to probably stop for the night, and get some work done after Mic7 instead of more maps. So again, feel free to generate maps. Anyone. Anyone at'll. Anyone?

I have to give up the computer to the daughter for the night, so please generate starts with AT LEAST one cow and I take this first thing in the morning.

If noone wants to, I play the first save from bedhead. I'm never fussed. :)

Glad to see you here RAT, as well to the rest. Please stay focused this time Cuivienen :lol: We probably need you.

You can play a few turns and see if it is up to muster. It isn't a huge growth map, but it does have its bonuses

I am still a virgin, SID SG virgin that is :lol: as I said my SID win can't really be counted and at that time I was really lucky with the knowledge I had about MM and all.

I can generate some maps tonight. Unless someone else does it, will post by then

I'd love to give this a try, though the highest level I've ever beaten is Emperor, and I'm still new to Conquests, so this game might be over my head. If you don't have any more room on the roster I'd at least like to join in the discussions.

As we do have six players currently, another would probably be too much. Feel free to join in the discussions, as other opinions are always welcome. And if we go down in flames this time, maybe you'll be ready to join in the next time.

Always optimistic, that's my motto!

Fine with me. I'll just watch and try to help out. As for your start, I don't see anything radical. Just get the wheat irrigated and build a granary, unless you find a really good food spot close by, in which case I'd support the settler before granary.

I rolled many starts, here are 3 acceptable ones with same settings archipelago etc

save1 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05a.SAV)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05a.jpg

save2 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05b.SAV)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05b.jpg

save3 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05c.SAV)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05c.jpg

By just looking quick, #3 seems the best by far. Plenty of food and the extra commerce of the river makes it appealing.

I would have to agree that #3 is a great looking start. #2 doesn't look too bad either, and has a luxury (wines) just to the northeast, but #3 is still the winner in my mind.

I would go with No3.

Number 3 is best, so when we all agree on that I will start.

ok, go for it, hope it's a good start. what's the sequence? warrior, curragh curragh?

I also agree on 3

I really like a curragh first. Three move scout, and hopefully we will have an island so it means contacts. In a few of my test runs, I had no problem getting first tier by 3000 BC or so (except The Wheel, of course). Coast is good, so if at first we settle a coastal spot, no problem.

At this point, everyone buy Cuivienen has said #3, and even a friendly lurker (?) has said so. I would be surprised if Cuivienen had a differing opinion, so if you want to start if off now, go ahead gozpel.

Nope, no difference in opinion. 2 is nice also, but 3 is the best.

We should probably build a Curragh first, perhaps even two, one for each direction. Then three Warriors, one to guard Carthage and the other two to explore, then a Settler, then, if we can afford to, a Granary to make a Settler factory.

It all depends on the land nearby, if it's good enough I squeeze out that settler quick. Scouting is too important to ignore, so we'll see what I do :)

Got it.

I don't know that I feel comfortable waiting as long as Cuivienen for a second settler, or at least granary. Depending on our island, we may not need a warrior for scouting until after a settler. If we see another coastal cow spot, we can just grab that first. Warrior for protection is sort of a waste, as it won't protect us from anything. I don't think we have barbs, though I didn't generate the starts so I don't know for sure, and if a Sid oppenent decides to attack, one warrior won't make the difference.

It won't prevent a Sid AI from defeating us if they do decide to attack, but, in my experience, the AI will often try to take undefended cities (especially capitals) that it would ignore if the city had a single Warrior.

Carthage is founded in place, start a warrior. Research Pottery at max.

I will irrigate both food-bonuses, so another town can use it now and again.

3750bc - Carthage warrior -> curragh.

3700bc - Bubba find gems nearby.

3650bc - Bubba finds a cow E.

3600bc - Bubba spots yellow borders, I have to swap the curragh to settler.

3500bc - Carthage's borders expands and there's another wheat NW! Growth and settler in 4 turns.

3450bc - We meet Egypt, give them Alphabet for Pottery and 20g. Research Writing at min.

3350bc - We meet the Dutch, no trade.

3300bc - Carthage settler -> curragh. Send settler to the cow.

3200bc - Dutch are building Colossus.

3150bc - Korea finish Colossus :lol:

Utica founded -> warrior.

3100bc - Dutch starts the Pyramids.

3050bc - Carthage curragh -> granary. I would like another settler first, but next player can make that choice.

Bubba finds furs S.

There are a few spots that I would like to get asap, can we afford to delay the granary? Or rather, can we afford not to build settlers? Egypt will probably pinch the sites if we don't act very quickly.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bedhead_3000bc.jpg

Oh boy, this might be rough. It will be interesting to see how it turns out with such a close neighbor. I don't know if a granary will be worth it with Egypt right next to us. I haven't figured out a roster yet. Who wants to grab this?

I think we should just build settlers as fast as we can. This area will be occupied in no time and I would hope we can grab some of the spots before the AI come swarming in.

It is going to be tough one....
You won't even have Jumbos to capture GL later in the game , but I wish good luck to the brave ones. :)

I agree with pumping settlers as fast as possible. By the time the granary finished we won't have any land left.

what's the roster like?

I should play last since I played around 50 turns into the game and know some spoilers. so I have to keep mum about the plan. only one thing, during my turns we were NOT boxed in, that's why I dared to post this save in the first place.
why not chop a forrest to speed up granary

I would send next settler to the gems spot towards egypt. the choke could be blocked as well.

Okay. Depending upon how my night goes, I may play. If someone else wants to grab it now, feel free. Chop for granary can be considered, but I think all out land grab is most important, and the cost of slowing down for a granary may not be worth the reward.

Right now we definetely need more Settlers rather than a Granary. My plan assumed that we would have no immediate neighbors, but that plan obviously does not apply. Settlers, Settlers, Settlers (with maybe a Worker or two thrown in).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_2550BC.SAV

3000 BC (0) - Put Carthage on forest for this turn.

2950 BC (1) - Switch Carthage back to wheat.

2900 BC (2) - Utica finishes warrior, starts worker. Carthage at size four, grows in four, completes settler in four.

2850 BC (3) - Can't figure out any way to get the settler faster without killing growth.

2710 BC (6) - Settler finishes, start another. Unfortunately, the best position (up by the wheat) has a volcano, so I think I'll head for tundra first.

2630 BC (8) - On second thought, we will be needing some luck anyway. If the volcano weren't there, the spot would be a bit better for us, so I am going to go ahead and pretend it isn't there.

IT - Netherlands learn Writing already.

2550 BC (10) - Leptis Magna founded. Blue borders spotted.

Once we get the bg mined, Carthage will produce settlers faster than it grows, so we may want to build a barracks and then do archers and settlers for as long as we can.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_2550BC.jpg

I played a turn ahead, and we can get the first tier finished for fortysomething gold.

Got it, I'll play tomorrow evening.

I would have settled in the direction of Egypt before they run us over. and I had towns that virtually exploded with a volcano. we will see that for sure. never mind though, let's hope we can garb land east and south, the west can wait IMHO.

still figuring out what the roster is like

I figured the roster would just develop based on when people could/wanted to play. I hope that isn't a problem.

As for placement, I am just looking to expand as fast as possible. Settling towards them means taking spots that cannot spit out a settler as soon as the current Leptis Magna position can.

I understand the rationale behind your move. hope it works out well. lucky we have egpyt as our close by AI and not some nasty guys.

we got 2 lux nearby (gems and incense) and if lucky, we can even claim the furs, not bad for such a tiny land.

it doesn't look too bad in my mind, this is archipelago, so land won't be that excessive

I figured the roster would just develop based on when people could/wanted to play. I hope that isn't a problem.

As for placement, I am just looking to expand as fast as possible. Settling towards them means taking spots that cannot spit out a settler as soon as the current Leptis Magna position can.

Ah, okay. I was just going by the list on the fron page. If someone can play before tomorrow evening, be my guest.

Okay, I guess I'll make a roster. I suppose that is why they are used.

gozpel
bed_head7
Cuivienen
dl123654
Kaiser_Berger
ThERat

I liked the idea of waiting until tomorrow. Gives everyone time to chime in.

Well, I promised to stick around and comment, so here's my thought about the Granary. When the city's still small, building settlers is limited by shields, so you forgo two of them to get the granary. But then once Carthage gets sufficiently large, the settler rate is limited by your food, so the granary lets you build them twice as fast. So an immediate granary will probably pay for itself after the fourth settler (dismissing maintenance costs as insignificant) and start being a net benefit when the fifth comes out a bit sooner than it otherwise would. After some thought, I can aggree with your decision to get those first two settlers out ASAP, since you grabbed two food bonuses which will soon start sending out their own settlers. But after this I would at least consider going back to build the granary before making more settlers out of Carthage. As I see it, there are two possible strategies:

No Granary -> Earlier Settlers -> Loose Build -> Grab the best land and fill in the spaces later -> Peaceful building

Granary -> More settlers -> tight build -> Set up unit factories and build archers/swordsmen -> Conquest

So I would ask how you plan to deal with the neighbors. Are you planning to risk an early war? Or do you want to stay peaceful? Are you the kind of people who would prefer 5 good cities or 10 mediocre ones?

good ideas Gato Loco.
I am someone who prefers the war path :cool: . Maybe after the next settler we should go for a granary. I prefer to have many cities, because they will bring down unit cost a lot. In many games I found that more cities really help. and with proper MM you can get a huge boost for your Civ.

(1) 2510 BC –

Utica finishes Worker. Switch Carthage to the newly-completed mine.

Cross the straits and meet Sumeria. We buy Ceremonial Burial from the Egyptians for 160 gold, then sell Alphabet and Ceremonial Burial to Sumeria for Warrior Code, The Wheel, Bronze Working and 24 gold, then sell Warrior Code to Egypt for 149 gold, netting us 4 techs and 13 gold for free. Not bad.

(2) 2470 BC –

Carthage completes its Settler. Since the sentiment of the team seems to lean towards a Granary, I start one.

Not much except that I discover that Sumeria is on the same island as us; they have Furs in their territory, and we have Furs to our south.

(3) 2430 BC –

After seeing an Egyptian Settler pair next to the Gems, I quickly change my mind about that Granary. Switch Carthage to a Settler.

(4) 2390 BC –

The Egyptians must have discovered Iron Working and traded it to the Dutch in the interturn; both now have Iron Working and Writing.

(5) 2350 BC –

Utica finishes a Worker and starts an Archer.

(6) 2310 BC –

Found Theveste near the Egyptian border, theoretically closing off Egyptian expansion. It has 2 BGs and can share the cow and mined BG with Utica, but will have flip pressure from Egypt.

We spot dark blue borders across the water but can’t reach them this turn.

The Dutch complete The Pyramids in the interturn and the Egyptians found Byblos south of Carthage… with the Gems out of range. Odd.

(7) 2270 BC –

We meet the Koreans and purchase Iron Working for 73 gold, Pottery and Masonry. They also have a monopoly on Mysticism. There is Iron on a Mountain near Leptis Magna.
The Spanish (whoever they are) complete The Oracle in the interturn.

(8) 2230 BC –

Leptis Magna finishes its Worker and starts another.

We spot dark red borders beyond Korea… Byzantines? Spanish?

(9) 2190 BC –

Carthage finishes its Settler and starts another.

We meet the Byzantines. They are up Mysticism and have everything we know. The Dutch and Sumerians also have Mysticism now, though the Egyptians do not yet. Sumeria is down Iron Working; We get 11 gold and Mysticism for it.

(10) 2150 BC –

Not much…

The Settler to the south is heading to wherever is best near the Gems. Carthage should be switched from the Wheat to the open mined BG. (Once the mine near Theveste is done, Theveste should switch to that mine and Utica to the one next to it rather than the one near Carthage.)

Got it

Nice trading there. Looks like we may be able to get a decent amount of land, and once it is time for war with Egypt, we may be able to buy an ally that will actually do something for us.

good trading, but how did that sumer settler pair manage to sneak through that choke. if they settle we might have to open if we end up in their land. not so good :(

I wasn't able to get a Warrior south fast enough to close the choke. The Warrior just got there this turn.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Hannibal_of_the_Carthaginians,_1750_BC.SAV)

Preturn 2150BC:

Turn 1 2110BC:
Theveste Warrior->Warrior
Byzantine&Dutch get HBR this turn

Turn 2 2070BC:

IBT:
Sumer builds near our blocking warrior

Turn 3 2030BC:
Utica Archer->Settler
Found Hippo near Gems starts worker, city pops hut and we get a warrior

Turn 4 1990BC:
Leptis Magna Worker->Warrior
Sumer found a city two squares away from the furs
Byzantine get Math, can't trade for it

IBT:
Dutch demand 31 gold, gives

Turn 6 1910BC:
Find America (Red), we have the same techs

Turn 7 1870BC:
Carthage Settler->Settler
America and Korea get HBR
Would buy it but there is nothing to trade it for

Turn 9 1790BC:
Leptis Magna Warrior->Archer

Notes:
Sumer knows the same as us
Egypt is up Writing
Byzantine, Dutch, Korea is up Writing, Math & HBR
America is up HBR
We are too close to Writing to buy it from someone else, it costs 350gold right now
Korea is selling techs cheaper

any screenie?
Sumer knows the same as us
Egypt is up Writing
Byzantine, Dutch, Korea is up Writing, Math & HBR
America is up HBR
I'd say try to get Math, and trade with America for HBR. We could try and sell HBR and Maths to Egypt for writing.

I am sure once we know writing, there would be more than that. and new trading opens up.

GLib is out of question?

It looks like we may very miss the great library at this rate. It will be interesting to see the tech situation once we learn writing.

Kaiser_Berger is up.

I've got it.

JD - I just found this. Best of luck to the team.

Looking at the last save, I wouldn't worry about the Glib. On an archipelago map wiht a seafaring civ you can always trade your way through the ancient age. Your real priority is geting map making as soon as possible to beat the AI to that island off your coast. Have you decided what to do about Egypt yet? With Egypt getting such cheap units from the AI bonus, plus a GA if you lose to a war chariot, you'd probably be in real danger from a war unless you have an ally, preferably one who shares a long border with Egypt. Then again 2.3 Numidian mercs might help you deal with those chariots. I'd say the island takes precedence over war, since you're more likely to beat Egypt to the island than you are to beat them in war. Plus you did manage to get most of the grasslands without war, and you can even squeeze a few more cities in before you run out of room.

Preturn- Since the GL is such a huge thing for a Sid game, I decide to take us on an all out path to get it for us. A quick look shows Utica as our best bet. However we will need the two BG outside its borders, so I switch it to a temple immediately.

T2 1700

Leptis Minor founded.

T3 1675

Byzantines start Lighthouse. I whip the temple to completion in Utica.

T4 1650

Byzantines complete SoZ. I start a palace prebuild in Utica.

T5 1625

I'm baffled to find an Egyptian warrior fortified on a spot I want by the Incense.

T6 1600

Sumerian culture has expanded, out warrior blockade gets booted.

T8 1550

We win the culture race at Utica and claim the two BG before the Egyptians can.

We found Sabratha and Rusicade, securing Iron and Incense.

We have lots of gold, and its bound to be demanded away, so I spend 358 of it to get Writing 3 turns early. Writing goes to America with 103g and 4gt for Math. Math goes to Sumeria for HBR and 2g. Math goes to Egypt and we get 285g back. See room for more dealing. 287g and 6gpt go to Byzantines for Philo, pick up 264g from Egypt and America for Philo, Philo and 255g gets us CoL from Korea.

Not too bad, I think.

I set our research to 50% to get Lit in 38 turns.

T9 1525

Dutch and Byz are up Map Making on us, Byz already have Republic.

T10 1500

Not much new.


Summary

We at least now have a shot at TGL. With two more BG to work plus the forests, We can make a pretty good shield producer there. The key is that we need to have around 240 shields in the bin by the time the AI gets Literature. If we can do that, then it is just a race between our cities, and by that time I would hope ours has more production.

We are building one last settler out of Leptis Magna, he can go and settle the last spot up north once he's ready. The curragh due out of Theveste in 5 can go east and check out the extent of Egypt's land.

Well, ideally we will get to lit first, though that may be a long shot considering the tech situation. It would also be nice to be closer than 240s, unless Utica is more productive than any other city and there is no danger of cascade. ThERat is up, and hopefully will give us some pictures.

ok, got it, will see what we can do about the GL, maybe join some settler or worker there as well to speed things up?

We don't need it so badly that we should join a settler. I would be hesitant to even join a worker depending on how it looks. I haven't opened the save yet. But I trust your judgement.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed_05-1250BC.SAV)

Pre-turn
ok, if we really want a shot at GL we need Utica to grow fast
will join workers soon, for now work forrest instead of cow to give 1 more shield, Egypt is roading for us, thanks a lot

IT Koreans building GLighthouse

1.1475BC
nth much

2. 1450BC
join 3 workers and we make 12spt now. need to increase lux to 20%

IT Sumer demands writing, we cave, Byz build ToA

3. 1425BC
Byz starting to run away, 4 techs up

4. 1400BC

IT Dutch finish GLighthouse

5. 1375BC

IT Egypt ask our curragh to leave, see they got extra lux, get that for CoL
Spanish finish MoM

6. 1350BC
we are fast falling behind in techs and we have no money to counter that. our only hope is GL
lower lux to 10% and lit is in 28, palace pre build in 17

7. 1325BC

8. 1300BC
found Oea up north

9. 1275BC

10. 1250BC
palace in 13, we can slow down if required, but I kept it full pace, I hope we speed up research, which is now at 20
once our capital grows research should go down as well
our curragh is on a suicide trip to meet the last Civ, we see the borders, if it survives this turn, we get to meet them

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed51250.jpg

We are a bit squeezed here, it seems. It is too bad it is all coming down to GL.

We need to watch negative research when we have so little gold. Someone comes knocking and we cave, then we lose a worker or a building.

Also, I don't remember ever seeing how much our palace costs. Does it cost 400s already?

gozpel, you're up.

From my calculations I think it was around 300 shields when I started. So, we're probably going to want to slow it down a bit here soon.

I would not slow down at all, the palace seems to be 300s, if we time it that we get it a turn after lit, then we can finish it in 8-9 turns, that should be enough. we are so far behind in techs and AI know a lot of them, we better do whatever we can to get GL. then we can pick either of the 2 neighbours to fight.

Not much to do except on the gamble :) I agree on negative research, it's bad unless you have 100g + in the bank.

I got it.

Not much to do except on the gamble I agree on negative research, it's bad unless you have 100g + in the bank. sorry for that, I think i just played around and saved it that way. I wouldn't go for negative on SID with so little money. try and adjust, I think there is a deal running out which gives us some money. we need to up research to match it with our palace pre build. once we have that secured, we go so 0% research.

Anyone got it? Anyone know who's up? Anyone know anything?

gozpel has got it, see post a few lines on top.

but having bveen playing with bedhead, I know rosters are not his forte

gozpel has it, as ThERat pointed out. He is also right about that other part.

I'm sorry for the delay, I had mouse problems and had to go get another one yesterday.

Pre-turn - Nothing, everything looks good. Erh, exdcept that we are researching at deficit. Not a good idea, we don't want to lose stuff by demands.

1225bc - Dutch completes Great Wall and starts Sun Tzu.

We meet Spain, no trades.

1200bc - Civs are building HG and Sun Tzu.

1175bc - Theveste barracks -> temple.

Join a worker in Utica, so I can use a scientist and avoid deficit at the same time. Lit and Palace in 12 turns.

1150bc - Nothing.

1125bc - Byzantines completes Hanging Gardens.

Hippo temple -> barracks.

Hire a scientist in Carthage to speed up Lit by a turn.

1100bc - Dutch completes ToA.

Carthage barracks -> temple.

Hire a taxman in Oea to avoid deficit.

1075bc - Not much.

1050bc - We get 10gpt back from some deals. Up science, Lit in 4 turns and starve Utica to get Palace in 5 turns.

1025bc - Dutch demands all our 20g.

1000bc - Korea demands our only goldpiece, have fun spending it.

2 turns left on Literature, Palace in 3t.

I don't know how many shields we have left to get the Library, it's more than the Palace. We can join another worker or two if that helps? The starving won't do us any good for more than a couple more turns.

Lit will be demanded as soon as we get it I reckon, hopefully we have enough shields already.

After this we better start building some military :)

great job on the build
I don't know how many shields we have left to get the LibraryI think the palace is 300s and GLib 400s, so we need another 8 turns after we switch. we should be able to get it, but as rightly pointed out, we need to build some military. are we planning to hit one of our 2 friends on our island?

We should probably attack the Egyptians not too long after getting the GL. It won't last all that long, and we'll want tech parity when we attack. We also don't have Horses, so we don't want the Egyptians to get Chivalry and Knights before fighting a war.

We won't be able to destroy the Egyptians in a war, but we should be able to secure all of the back regions settled by Egypt.

gozpel
bed_head7 <- up
Cuivienen <- on deck
dl123654
Kaiser_Berger
ThERat

Everyone cross their fingers! I'll try to fit it in tonight to keep things moving along, but I'll probably get it sometime tomorrow.

Good job with the GL. I just noticed something that I haven't seen anyone else mention. You don't have horses, but Egypt doesn't have horses yet, or iron either, which means no swords, no war chariots, and no golden age. With a 2.3 and 3.2 unit at your disposal, you aren't in that bad a situation, assuming that you can build some soon. Would it be worth using your GA now if it meant taking more Egyprian land, or do you want to wait until a more opportune time? Also notice that tundra hiding under the fog just inside Egypt's border. I suspect their cities aren't all that productive. Finally, the GL should catapult you into the middle ages if you look at what techs the Byzantines and Dutch have. You may actually fight this war with medieval infantry.

I made a diagram of the likely troop movements in the upcoming war:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Egypt_plan.jpg

There are several options for attacking the stranded Egyptian cities.
A - Start south of Carthage, advance to Abydos, then Byblos, which will have a road leading into your terrritory. These troops won't get back to the main border for a long time
B - Attack Hieraconpolis then rush back to the front, leaving Hieraconpolis to start pumping out units for you as soon as you deal with the resistance.
C - Get a ROP with Sumeria to attack El-Amarna quickly and then march back through Byblos. These troops will return to the front more quickly than group A.

Utica and Theveste (Yellow swords) seem the most threatened, especially since they can park an archer/spear stack on the mountain next to Utica if you don't defend it. I suspect most of their troops will attack Theveste after the initial wave, since that road near Utica seems to lead off into the tundra and probably not to their good unit-producing cities. After you get Literature and start producing gold again, I'd recommend an embassy with Egypt to see where their capital is so you know what direction most of their unit production will be coming form. It may be that their troops will all cross that mountain (purple swords), in which case a couple Numidian mercs and Medieval Infantry on the mountain could help defend your territory and get an advance warning of attacks.

One final thing. You don't have any maps of Egyptian territory. Try to send some warriors in to scout the borders at least, especially on that mountain once the worker moves. Sure it'll annoy them, but you're going to declare war anyway, so a bit of annoyance is probably moot.

Sure they've got the Sid bonus, but you're going to have 4.2 attackers and 2.3 defenders against their archers and spearmen. I'm actually optimistic, as long as you manage to get the GL first.

Edit: Finally, in true AI fashion, all the spearmen I see are regulars. Is it possible they didn;t bother to build a barracks?

Thanks for all of the input. You are putting a lot of effort into this for a lurker, which is certainly appreciated. I wasn't aware that Egypt didn't have horses yet. I tend to be somewhat lazy, and rarely open up the save before playing. The news of no war chariots is certainly encouraging.

1000 BC (0) - Search for any way to MM to make things better. Only find one change, as a forest being worked is going to be chopped. But more changes than I ever remember making after inheriting from gozpel.

IT - Dutch start Leonardo's. We could build the GL, and have it obsolete the same turn. Wouldn't THAT be something?!

975 BC (1) - Not too much.

950 BC (2) - Learn lit. Turn off research for the time being, and up lux to 20% so Utica isn't starving so much and can get the Great Library in eight turns.

900 BC (4) - Crossing my fingers.

IT - Lit finally demanded, by the Egyptians, of course. I have to cave. Oh how I wanted to say no.

875 BC (5) - Just about everyone has Lit now.

825 BC (7) - Leonardo's finishes. Cascades to GL. We get a courthouse for 360s. Sumeria, the lone civ unable to read, gives us Map Making for Literature, 135g, and 3gpt.

My turns were nail biting and disappointing, but nothing much actually happened. Starting military. We'll really need it, as grabbing some land soon is our only opportunity. Luckily, Egypt is not much better off than us.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_750BC.jpg

I see ThERat around, so I know what is coming next. Hopefully I'll beat him to it.

Roster:
gozpel
bed_head7 <- sobbing softly into his hands
Cuivienen <- up
dl123654 <- on deck
Kaiser_Berger
ThERat

no, c'mon bedhead, I was just joking

i feel sad that we didn't get Gl, we put ALL the effort into it. which Civ got that, we must get those guys. get at them and steal GL

Oops, didn't mention that. Dutch got the Great Library. We won't be capturing it any time soon. We'll have to catch up the old fashioned way. Now, we just have to figure out what the old fashioned way is...

good thing you didn't got the GLib, now you can get more techs from it :D

good thing you didn't got the GLib, now you can get more techs from it :D

That's a nice thought.

Yeah, but the Dutch will be at Infantry by the time we can get to them...


Got it. I'll prepare for the war. The next player should probably start it.

I'm sorry, this is taking longer than expected. I'll have turns up this evening.

*cough* "This" is synonymous with "Tuesday" in some dialects of English.

730 BC (1) –

Carthage: Swordsman --> Swordsman
Utica: Barracks --> Swordsman
Rusicade: Temple --> Catapult

The Byzantines begin Knights Templar.
The Dutch complete Knights Templar. No cascades.

Some MMing gets 2-turn Swordsmen in Utica and Carthage.

I figure that Sabratha would be better off with a Harbor for more food than a Barracks; it needs a Harbor before it can work two hills for shields.

690 BC (3) –

Two Swordsmen are finished in Utica and Carthage.

The Byzantines begin Sistine Chapel.
As do the Dutch.

670 BC (4) –

Whip the Harbor in Sabratha.

650 BC (5) –

Two more Swordsmen.
Leptis Magna: Barracks --> Swordsman
Theveste: Numidian Merc --> Merc
Sabratha: Harbor --> Barracks

610 BC (7) –

I switch Carthage to a Merc. Two more Swordsmen this turn.

Hippo: Merc --> Merc

590 BC (8) –

Rusicade: Catapult --> Catapult

570 BC (9) –

Lincoln demands 33 gold. He’s far away, but I cave anyway.

Not much more to say. Our Army is still pathetic: 6 Workers, 7 Warriors, 1 Archer, 9 Swordsmen, 1 Catapult, 3 Numidian Mercenaries, and 2 Curraghs. We can’t wage war just yet. The Byzantines appear to be consuming the Spanish as Theodora’s power stat goes way up and Isabella’s dwindles. Egypt is second-to-last in Power, ahead of (you guessed it) us. Not much more to be said.

Got it, will build up army

War Preparations (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Hannibal_of_the_Carthaginians,_350_BC.SAV)

Preturn 550BC:
Change Sabatha Barrack->Catapult

Turn 1 530BC:
Carthage NM->NM
Utica Sword->Sword
Leptis Magna Sword->Sword
Theveste NM->NM

IBT:
Dutch, Byzantine building Copernicus

Turn 2 510BC:

Turn 3 490BC:
Carthage NM->Settler
Utica Sword->Settler
Hippo NM->NM

Turn 4 470BC:

IBT:

Turn 5 450BC:
Carthage Settler->NM
Utica Settler->Sword
Rusicade Catapult->Same
Volcano active near Leptis Magna :eek:

IBT:
Byzantine building Magenlian

Turn 7 410BC:
Leptis Magna Sword->Sword
Theveste NM->NM
Leptis Minor Temple->Catapult
Byzantine complete Sixtine
Volcano erupts :cry:, just its own square polluted

Turn 8 390BC:
Carthage NM->NM
Dutch complete Copernicus
Volcano stopped :)

Turn 9 370BC:
Utica Sword->Sword
Hippo NM->NM
Free embassy with Dutch

IBT:
Sumer wants 45 gold, gives

Notes:
Current army 14 swords, 10 NM, 2 Catapults

Volcano erupts , just its own square pollutedwe are plain lucky here, I got a whole town blow up once.

next player should go and attack Egypt before their units are too strong. just fight carefully,since KB is up, I have confidence it will turn out very well

I can't check at the moment, so I'll ask. Does Egypt have any resources hooked up? Also, have we done anything with research at all. I am thinking that we hurry up and get into Republic and then make a move on Egypt. We probably can't afford to wait much longer.

As of my turns, Egypt had no resources hooked up. I don't think we can even afford to wait until we enter Republic for war. We'll end up with a despotic GA, but it may be worth weakening Egypt while we still have a chance.

I agree, we're at a critical point. We probably do need a quick war to seize some assets before there are muskets and rifles defending.

I've got it.

a despotic GA is unfortunate, but we better grab more land, so that we will eventually be able to take over the whole island.

self research is futile in sid, unless we would be very big and very strong, so building lib and uni is not really the way to go imho.

Preturn- Switch our 10% science for a lone scientist, gain 5gpt. I move our stack towards their position. I make an embassy with Sumeria, as may want/need them in the war.

IT- zzz

T1 330

I find some errors that are just downright unacceptable for this level. We're building 30sp Merc out of Carthage at 14spt! We're wasting an incredible amount there. I mm to fix it. Troops are in place.

IT- zzz

T2 310

Take a deep breath and and take us down an irreversible path by declaring on Egypt. Move our troops in.

IT- End up with a not so terrifying stack of Egytians in our territory.

T3 290

Lose two precious swords, but we raze Byblos.

IT- Netherlands demands gold and MAPS. Navigation is out there already.

Egypt pillages the hell out of our land. A reg warrior impales itself on our mercs and we have our GA. The bastards pillae the road to the peninsula, so no more iron. That hurts.

T4 270

Decide to give our SoD one turn to heal.

IT- Theveste get pounded on by archers, spears and warriors, but not a single Merc falls. In fact, they all go elite. Their performance is the stuff of legend.

T5 250

Move SoD towards El-Amarna.

IT- only one attack and a couple of pillages.

T6 230

Egypt is willing to talk already :) We're not though :evil:

IT- Nothing too bad at all.

T7 210

We manage to raze El Amarna. We are going to to be overrun, so I make peace after a couple leader fishing attempts fail. We get Currency and Contruction for 525g.

IT- zzz

T8 190

Not much new. Move a settler to claim open space.

IT- zzz

T9 170

Nothing much new.

IT- Sumeria declares on Korea.

T10 150

Hadrumentum founded.


Summary

We are pumping out some much needed markets right now, but after that I would go military again to hit the Egyptians again for a couple more razes. Hopefully with one of our wars we can get an army.

got it, probably tomorrow night

@KB, great execution of the war

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bed5_50AD.SAV)

Pre-turn
everyone is up in techs
get polytheism for 20gpt and 70g, but everyone is up any other tech as well :(

turn 1-4 building up economy, get income to 40gpt, start FP

4. 50BC
ask Egpyt to leave and they declare, attack them

5. 30BC
destroy Abydos for 3 slaves and 1 native worker :D

after that kill a lot of units, get no army
Byz fight Dutch

8. 10AD
we are pretty beat up and Egpyt is willing to talk, we get peace and Engineering for 3gpt :lol:

then Byz demands TM and 35g, cave
Sumer and Byz ally versyus Dutch
found Cadiz on turn 10, left deals for next player
we need to keep on pounding Egypt, since they park units in our land, we can get them to declare easily.
build up another strike force and take out Hieraconpolis next

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed550.jpg

goz is on indefinite skip, bedhead would be up if he is still around, since he said not in town from 28th onwards

I'm still around and can play before I leave. Nice warring, both of you, and thanks for the screenshot. Too bad we couldn't get Hieraconpolis, though.

I'm still around and can play before I leave. Nice warring, both of you, and thanks for the screenshot. Too bad we couldn't get Hieraconpolis, though. good to hear.
to get another town was out of the question without an army, I had no leader luck with several elite wins
make sure our capital is not wasting shields, I set it on 16spt, since we need 30s only for sword or mercs

I feel beating Egpyt and extorting techs from them is our only way out, we are in a deep tech hole here.

Yes, good job with the fighting. Make sure not to let Egypt rebuild. As long as you keep the pressure on you cn whittle them away. Also, I'd suggest building a settler or two. More cities never hurt, and you might as well refound on top of that destroyed city before the Sumerian borders expand. There's probably also room on the coast between Haradamentum and Cadiz, since both are still small. It isn't much, but the extra unit support could come in handy.

And am I seeing things or are the Byzantines in the industrial age? :eek:

I do believe the Byzantines have made it to the IA. Maps were available to trade a while ago so they must be there by now.

Nothing exciting enough for a turn log, so I'll just give a summary.

The positives:
We are on our way to a new government.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_revolution.jpg

Egypt is at war with Sumeria and the Dutch. I am actually not sure how much of a positive this is if the Egyptians start losing territory. If we are able to start war in turn eight of Cuivienen's turns, they may be rather weak. We don't want to start war before that, because WW is accumulated in despotism, it just doesn't count for anything. So we have to wait the full twenty for it to disappate.

The Dutch are also at war with much of the world. Hopefully this will slow the tech pace. I am not really sure how we will ever be able to catch up, but if a world war is being fought it has to increase our chances.

We also built the forbidden palace, so corruption should be more manageable.

The negatives:
Newton's University was completed by the Byzantines, and the owners of the Great Library have frigates.

The Egyptians got horses from someone, and there are war chariots running around.

The Sumerians have saltpeter. Our chances of eventually taking the entire continent, or at least keeping up the war-peace-extortion thing once the Egyptians are gone, are lessened.

I screwed up the end of our GA and let a couple towns revolt.


It'll be interesting to see how this game turns out. It sure isn't looking pretty at the moment.

Check to see if you can figure out who's giving Cleopatra those horses. You're far enough behind that an alliance would be difficult to get, but it could be worthwhile to disrupt her supply. Also consider the possibility that the horses are on the island under the fog of war. Asyut does have a harbor after all.

since bedhead is not around, the Roster

gozpel - autoskip until his computer is back alive
bed_head7 <- enjoying his holidays? (or work? :lol: )
Cuivienen <- up
dl123654 <- on deck
Kaiser_Berger
ThERat

I am still here for a few more hours. I guess I never explicity said Cuivienen is up. Well, she is.

By the way, it is a college visit.

Sorry about that, I've been away for a few days. I'm here now. Got it.

Well, at this point I do believe Cuivienen is skipped, putting dl123654 at the helm and Kaiser_Berger on deck. Sorry you all waited.

Then I got it then

A much better war (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Hannibal_of_the_Carthaginians,_350_AD.SAV)

Preturn 250AD:
We are rebelling now, two turns left

Turn 2 270AD:
We are now a republic
Move some citizens around, making 81gpt at 20% lux with min sci, disband warriors for more money

IBT:
Been seeing Egypt and Sumer going towards each other, Egypt retreated right before they attacked

Turn 3 280AD:
Just my luck the volcano erupted again, only its square is polluted

Turn 4 290AD:
Carthage Sword->Settler
Leptis Magna NM->NM
Hadrumetum Temple->Market

See over 100 Sumer units going towards Egypt hope their in a razing mood, we still have 4 turns on our peace with Egypt

Turn 5 300AD:
Utica NM->Sword

IBT:
Sumer is now in Egypt

Turn 6 310AD:
Carthage Settler->Sword
Theveste NM->NM
Rusicade Market->NM
Oea Harbor->Market

IBT:
America&Dutch vs Byzantine
America&Dutch vs Spain

Turn 7 320AD:
Leptis Magna NM->NM

IBT:
Sumer&Byzentine peace
Dutch boats seen pulling up to Oea

Turn 8 330AD:
Carthage Sword->Sword
Utica Sword->Sword
Peace deal with Egypt ends this turn, our army is average to them, our army is 14 sword and 19 NM
Tell Egypt to remove or declare and she leaves

IBT:
Dutch leave
Egypt wants another 20 turns of peace, no
Sumer razes a size 12 Egyptian city near the gold mountian (see picture)

Turn 9 340AD:
Stack heads to Hieraconpolis

Turn 10 350AD:
Carthage Sword->Settler
Utica Sword->Settler
Leptis Magna NM->NM
Theveste Sword->Settler
Most of stack in place, Catapults are a turn behind though

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/War_front.JPG

Solid looking turns. Now we'll just have to hope that we can let Sumeria do most of the fighting while letting us get most of the cities, as Sumeria will have to be our next target.

Egypt doesn't have much a military left, and we can't realy pass Sumer's blockade anyway.

I noticed that movement is hard. It is actually sort of disappointing then that Egypt is that weak. Considering this, I would then advise Kaiser_Berger to slow down Sumerian units whenever possible, as that should allow us to maximize our gains.

Now that you're a republic, I'd advise forgetting about the military and building settlers to steal space from the Sumerians (as you appear to be doing). With that many units to navigate around, they're going to beat you to everything. However, you can still found in the neutral areas between newly captured cities. And if they keep on razing, so much the better. Try to grab some nice spots and resources. And depending on how much money you want to spend, some rushed culture buildings can help to push borders. Or you can just keep building units and plan to ambush the Sumerian attack force once they've taken out the Egyptians.

gozpel <- indefinite leave of absence
bed_head7
Cuivienen <- MIA?
dl123654
Kaiser_Berger <- probably just busy, but hasn't popped his head in to say hello
ThERat <- up, unless Kaiser_Berger beats him to the punch

Gato Loco, considering your input thus far and a team that seems to be thinning quickly, I'd be happy to have you as long as you play as good a game as you talk. That is assuming that you are still interested.

KB is up in the monster goz8 game, I can take it now, if you want, just came back from work :eek: on sunday morning

Sounds like a plan if you want to take it Rat, Goz8 is a monster that will take a while.

So we'll call it a switch.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05-450AD.SAV)

Pre-turn
wow, there are huge stack of Sumers, how are we going to fight them later on?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed5350.jpg

IT units moving, zzzz

1.360AD
since we got some money, establish some embassiesdon't dare to attack with swords only
spread out our units so we can still move about

IT we are very lucky, Sumer actually razes Hirancopolis
just so that we get an idea how far we are behing, Dutch build US

2.370AD
this game feels more like chess, shift units so that Sumer has nowhere to go
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed5370.jpg

IT this works, Sumer units turn round or advance towards Egypt
in fact we can't fight this war, can only follow and settle the empty spots
we can go for peace once Egypt is willing to give techs

3.380AD
more of Civ-chess, 2 settlers in place, one in a sub optimal location, but we can't help it, Sumer won't leave neutral territory

4.390AD
found Nora next to former Hirancopolis, and Russadir in the east
chess game shifting east slowly, next turn Alexandria will surely fall
Asytut is Dutch already
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed5390.jpg

IT Egypt wants to talk
ok we get mono +TM for 21gpt
oh no, Alexandria is now Sumer

5.400AD
can only hope some more cities are razed

6.410AD
Memphis is Dutch now, gives us room to settle by the furs, founs Sulcis

7.420AD
nada

8.430AD
Giza is Dutch Egypt is 1CC
cheapest to steal from them, go for it and we get feudalism for 828g

9.440AD nth

IT Thebes is Dutch, good news Byz and Sumer are fighting

10.450AD
found Saldae in the new void
there is 1 more settler in Russadir, but I didn't dare to settle aggressive
maybe we have a chance against Sumer, if we get the Dutch to join
there is now another seal in the south, so northern seal can be opened
maybe we could go for another gpt deal for a tech since Egypt is soon no more
next player can decide
furs will be up next turn
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed5450.jpg

Are we in danger of a rep hit if Egypt dies?

When trading resources, yes. When trading gpt, no.

When trading resources, yes. When trading gpt, no.took me a while to decide, but then I remembered. In fact, since Egpyt is OCC and gone in a turn or 2, we should try and get 2 more techs from them per gpt. I am sure we could do that.

Their island city was taken?

I am thinking that we ought to declare on Dutch and then buy in Sumeria. If we cannot afford it, I am not sure what we can do.

I am thinking that we ought to declare on Dutch and then buy in Sumeriawe can try that, but Dutch have landed a few Cavs to capture those Egypt towns, we have mighty swords to counter, or maybe MDI's if we get feudalism. but on.e we open the flood gates including an RoP, Sumer will just burn the Dutch. might be a really fun idea to watch them slaugther each other.

edit: thinking about it, I agree that letting AI's fight each other and raze and give us space is the only way to go. We have to catch up even on the backward Civ's.

but one we open the flood gates including an RoP, Sumer will just burn the Dutch might be a really fun idea to watch them slaugther each other.

That is the idea. We shouldn't have to do any fighting, considering the number of Sumerian units.

I do think that the Sumerians would be able to prevent the Dutch from doing anything *too* bad to us. I doubt if the Dutch would even manage to take a city. It's good for us if the Dutch and Sumerians beat each other to a pulp, and it will make our inevitable betrayal of Sumeria simpler.

Sorry team, computer just went up in smoke, will still be around but can't play

Kaiser_Berger? Gato Loco? Cuivienen? Any of you could play here.

I'm up in a few others right now, so if either of the other two can take it that would be superb.

:bump:

Anyone out there? *hears echo*

I don't know. I just don't know.

Since there were no other takers, I'll add this to my queue. Could be a little bit, but it shall be done.

Ah, finally. I may need to advertise for a replacement or two in the SG Registry.

Probably wouldn't hurt. With Cuivienen's history, I don't expect her back anytime soon, at least on a consistant basis. I myself am working on cutting back my SGs as much as possible so I don't leave games hanging like this for so long.

what a pleasure, a stalled SG, it has been more than a week since I played...

Advert posted. Sorry about stalling. This has gone past my usual loose standards (and past the usual stage of joking about said standards) and I hope it hasn't hurt the game too much.

actually I think the game is at a crucial phase and if we are able to play Dutch and Sumer well against each other, we might look much better. we already gained a few more cities and if Sumer razes Dutch or vice versa, we could be the 3rd party to profit.

but turns must be played carefully. rather play 5 good ones than 10 fast ones

Two computer problems and a possible dropout has left the team a little short, meaning we need at least two more brave souls to join us on our quest to beat Sid.


Just wanted to make it clear that I will be back after my computer gets back in ~1 week.

I've been here, I'm just waiting for someone else to take it. I was supposed to play fairly recently in the roster so I assumed that someone else should play before me.

Well Cuivienen, in that stretch where Kaiser_Berger couldn't play, you were the best player to switch. Now that he has it, you are on deck. If dl123654 is back by then, I think he would then be up.

actually i wouldn't mind any player to take and continue. we wait too,long and it will be a forgotten game

Preturn- Can't swing a tech from Egypt. Will look into alliance.

IT- Egypt is dead.

T1 460

Declare on Dutch, sign in Sumeria for 570g.

IT- Dutch Cavs focus on us. We lose some troops. Sumeria moves in.

T2 470

Reinforce our holdings.

IT- We get smacked aroubt Dutch again, but they are starting to falter against Sumer.

T3 480

More reinforcement.

IT- America is brought in against Sumer. Sumer starts to whomp on Dutch.

T4 490

Not much to do.

IT- Spain declares on Sumeria. America declares on us. Byzantines complete Bachs.

T5 500

Nothing much.

IT- Byzantines and America sign peace.

T6 510

Sumer continues to march on Dutch.

IT- zzz

T7 520

Same old. Move settler towards open spot.

IT- zzz

T8 530

Give Byzantines our only furs, 876g and 24gpt for Theology, spices, TM and 70g.

IT- Sumeria has nearly driven Dutch from our lands.

T9 540

Not much new.

IT- zzz

T10 550

We found Carthago Novo.


Summary

Despite starting a war with the world superpower, these were quiet builder turns. We're going to need to keep buying our way back up in the tech race. Banks should be a goal so we have more money to play with.

Give Byzantines our only furs, 876g and 24gpt for Theology, spices, TM and 70g.


Good job on the trade, never thought to do something like that.

Does Sumer still have 14256243 troops or are they scaled back a little?

If we haven't already we should set our research to 0% with no minimum research.

Sumeria is still packing plenty of punch. If anything they burned up old horsemen and archers and are actually stronger now.

We're running zero science with a lone scientist at the moment.

Good job on the trade, never thought to do something like that.

Does Sumer still have 14256243 troops or are they scaled back a little?

If we haven't already we should set our research to 0% with no minimum research.

It took surprisingly long for that trick to actually become useful in this game. I considered in my last turn set and couldn't really get enough value for it to justify the trade.

Sorry I've been out of action recently. You have this year's flu shot shortage to blame for my absence. :vomit:

Anyway, I'd love to fill one of the empty spots, but the outlook for the near future doesn't leave me much time for civ. I'll try to keep commenting, though, when I can.

If we hit a slow down and you want to jump in at any time, feel free.

I've never done Sid or a SG before, but I'm a brave soul. Still looking for a replacement?

I'm still a Diety virgin,no jump to Sid anyway.

@Darwin Were still looking for replacements (some of us still are having computer issues :sad: ), its up to Bed Head though, what kind of experience do you have?

@plarq Demigod to sid might be a little too hard, again its up to Bed Head

@both If you have read the thread so far Sumer has LOTS of cheap units out there and it will be an uphill battle to uproot them.

@everyone has anyone claimed this yet?

cuivienen is up is guess

Got it. Will play probably tomorrow night; I have DBear01 first.

This really should come first, as I posted that you would be up after Kaiser_Berger days ago. I should have said something sooner, but I have barely been able to make time to play, so my browsing has gone down.

I would know more about you to make the call, Darwin, so if you could fill me in on how you've done on your own...

plarq, I would feel more comfortable with someone who has beaten Deity. I was willing to make an exception for Gato Loco as he had some good input and has been an active lurker.

agree with bedhead here on all issues:

if you know you are about to be up, you should prioritise the play order to be fair to the rest of the team. this game has been badly stalled and it make the motivation go down tremendously.

also, plarq is playing in 2 of my games. Positive so far, but Sid might be a bit over your head? you should know yourself.

Darwin, could we know more about yourself. this is SID, something that requires extraordinary play and luck

I'll be straight-up and honest: I've never played Sid. I usually have good luck, though, and can hold my own.

But, if you are looking for someone with uber high-level experience, then I am not your pick. And, if that's the case, then I'll just lurk!

I'll be honest, I don't have a lot of free time, and, if you think it necessary that I be able to immediately play any game, then I shouldn't be in this SG.

A pickup within a day or two, and play within three or four days, is all that I ask. You didn't manage one and were only just promising the other.

I guess she just asked for a skip.The crew number is dangerously low,you need to employ some Sid winners,not virgins.

That wasn't asking for a skip, but I am going to drop out. I just don't have enough time to play a full Sid game. Sid takes much more time than Emperor or DemiGod and I just don't have it. I'm sorry.

Sorry that you are dropping. I really didn't feel like it was a terribly demanding schedule.

dl123654, are you able to play yet? If not, or maybe if I don't see a post, I'll play some turns to keep this thing moving. Thanks for the interest shown by the lurkers, it does make it a bit easier to keep going. Just a shame that none of of you are quite as experienced as I would like a replacement player to be.

I want to, but am still waiting for my computer :sad: . Sorry.

No problem. I'll play some later. I better do a bit more homework first, though.

I didn't really do as much work as I would have liked before playing, but at least I played. 15 turns, too! Just wanted to get it all moving.

This is our army. Maybe I can help this out, a least a little bit.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_550AD_army.jpg

We have some holes to fill, so I switch for a couple settlers. And something buildings MDI is doing 13spt! 13, I say! Get it an extra shield.

Hit spacebar, and get this message.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_550AD_spanish.jpg

Hm. Oh well. We can live without them. The next fourteen turns were mostly peaceful. Sumerians took care of most any problems the Dutch gave us, though I wasn't sure who to root for at times. I kept thinking that it would be kind of nice if the Sumerians lost a couple more units in cleaning up the Dutch. The Americans did land some units, which WE had to take care of (the nerve of it). Then the Dutch near the end landed something that couldn't be taken care of, and we lost an NM and two MDI. Towards the end, I decided war with the Dutch, which had caused some WW, was not worth continuing, so I cancelled our alliance and paid a moderate sum for peace. And then, to make sure that the Sumerians were occupied, I allied them against America.

Despite this peace, the peaceful building feel to my turns was only a facade. Under the cover of the night, I shipped units to Asyut, an American town across the straits, though with one galley progress was a little slow (it really slowed down when an American privateer sunk the galley, but thankfully our brave soldiers had already been unloaded).

On the final turn, five MDI, two NM, and four trebuchets were at the gates of Asyut for their date with destiny. A couple turns before, I thought I was pretty smart in waiting for reinforcements to arrive before attacking. Why rush it? Well, Asyut grew to size six in this time, and Korean cavalry managed to promote the defending musketman to elite. So be it. All the more heroic will be the victory.

That was what I told myself at least. But all that fluff turned out true more or less. In killing three muskets in a city, one elite, one vet, and one reg, we lost only one MDI. We of course were helped by the fact that we were able to drop rocks on them from the sky, but it was still quite a surprise when we walked in so easily.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_700AD_asyut.jpg

And after all of this excitement, our army still grew, and support costs dropped.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_700AD_army.jpg

Here are our other territorial 'acquisitions'. According to a mostly untested theory Greebley has posted elsewhere and I have cited all over the place, city sites outside of a city's 20 workable tiles shouldn't cause any issues, like, war or the like.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_700AD_gades.jpg

A few other less exciting notes. Both forests there have already been chopped for shields, then replanted. So don't bother chopping the fur forests. We could again trade away our last furs, but I couldn't get another lux for them, and we are currently running 0% lux, with a lone scientist in our capital.

Keep everything optimized as possible. Every shield counts right now.

With war all over the place (oy! should have taken F4 screenie) I am hoping tech is somewhat slowed. Byzantines are Fascist, Ducth Communist, US finished. But no signs of Infantry, ToE, Hospitals, so maybe there is hope. Of course, we are getting techs at a rate of 1/50turns. We do have some cash lying around, but twofers are out of the question. We might need to build some libraries and do some self research, as I hear that is cheaper than buying. And culture couldn't hurt.

(by the way, please, no one burst my bubble by pointing out that Asyut doesn't really get us anything. It is a small moral victory for us, so just live with it. Maybe the Americans in a trade to get it back will get us to tech parity somehow. Who knows. Or, think of it this way. Today Asyut, tomorrow, Amsterdam [holds GL]. Yeah, it could happen. And stepping on others doesn't really make you any higher. So there)

I think this whole post is an indication that I need some sleep. Night, all.

Or maybe I can't get this bad boy moving. Seriously, there is no one who can win on Deity who is intersted in giving Sid a run? Or even played on Sid and wants help out a floundering team.

As it stands, I guess we wait for dl123654 to be able to play.

This will be the first thing I do when I get my computer back. (Well second, first I'll install Civ)

Just bringing 'er back to the top. Who knows, maybe someone will stop in and decide this game is just what they were looking for.

Current roster:
dl123654 <- gettin' his comp back running tomorrow
ThERAT <- probably forgotting he is in this thing
Kaiser_Berger
bed_head7 <- hoping for someone to join
_____________
_____________

bedhead, I didn't forget that I am in here, just wondering what's next. Do you want me to take it? or shall we wait for dl123654?
actually if 4 of us are really comitted, we can run it. I rather have 4 players set to take their turns than 6 players with endless delays.

dl123654 can play tomorrow, I believe he said. If you want to play 10 right now, feel free. And even though 4 dedicated is better than 6 with delays, we have 4 here, had 5 with gozpel, but computer problems slowed this thing down a ton, so getting another player willing to play in a timely manner would be great.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_800AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
we are at war with Spain which has one city left, it might be gone very fast, get a discount on invention for 55gpt instead of 75gpt
get gunpowder for 95gpt, we have saltpeter, in fact there is another source next to Asyut
we need to attack Korea I feel to get that source (and another iron) secured
saltpeter would get us PP from Dutch
establish an embassy in Zaragoza, this might be the best target for steals

IT Korea and Netherlands sign peace

1.710AD
zzzz

IT Dutch actually capture Memphis, it could be razed next turn

2.720ADBC
war preparations, since we want to take Vitoria from Korea for iron and more salt

IT Dutch still keep that town

3.730AD
declare and approach Vitoria
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed5720.jpg

IT renegotiate our furs deal for a much better deal, we get their world map and 40g + spices for it

4.740AD

battle of vitoria

cats go 2/4 and left are 2 2hp rifles
1st MI takes off 1hp and dies
2nd MI dies and promotes rifle to 3/4 :grr:
3rd MI beats promoted rifle, a 4hp cav appears
4th MI takes off 1 hp but dies
5th MI beats Cav and promotes elite
1hp rilfe left, the dilemma, attack or not to attack with elite merc
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed5740.jpg

then
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed5740b.jpg

If we can keep this town, we have 1 more iron and salt

we are making 55gpt due to renegotiation

IT Memphis still stands, what is Sumer doing?

5.750AD
we have to be unconventional here, with that 2nd salt in sight, going to trade first now
in our own home, Sumer is blocking too many roads, going back to old blocker chess game
salt, 24gpt and 15g give us education from Dutch
(without salt, it would have costed 56gpt and 600g)
Spain still has all techs ahead, waiting for them to lack something

IT Memphis is Sumer again

6.1325BC
next target could be New Orleans across the channel, it has salt as well
we could use astronomy for better transports than galleys
try and steal from Spain, they declare and we get a lot of money back :lol:

get it from Byzantines, so that they won't declare war on us for 104gpt :eek:

IT
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed5760.jpg

We just traded them salt for an equivalent of roughly 1500g, I seriously don't expect them to declare war, but they do !
well, so be it, our income is back to 100gpt

7.770AD
attack some knights near Vitoria but they all retreat
our elite merc beats 1hp knight
give Sumer an RoP to fend off impeding landings in the west, try to block them from running through our territory though

IT 2hp knights attack but only promote an MI to elite
Koreans Cav appears
Dutch land 4 units next to cadiz
sumer Cav kills one of the rifles in the stack

8. 780AD
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed5780.jpg

manage to block to separate east and west and stop Sumer from running through our land

IT lose a merc to Cav, lose a merc in Cirta but we survive, that was close
get a landing next to Vitoria
at least our land gets emptied from Sumer units

9. 790AD
we bomb the Korean cav
nth much we can do but hope for peace

IT lose a merc in Vitoria, road gets razed and we lose the happiness and it riots

10.800AD
we get massice WW, lucky Korea talks now
make peace and buy banking for 50gpt and 500g
need to raise lux to 10%, make peace with America in 8 when our deal is over or once Sumer makes nice with them
bomb 4 units outside Vitoria, beat 2 rifles with our 2 elite MI's
we need some reinforcement there

also we will get Dutch landings next turn near Cirta and Cadiz, note that Dutch move first before Sumer, so
any landing will hopefully be dealt by Sumer as well

warzone
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed5800.jpg

Very nice moves to get us ahead in the techs.

Roster:
dl123654 <- up
Kaiser_Berger <- on deck
bed_head7 <- crossing his fingers for another player, continued success
ThERat <- taking a well deserved break?

Just got my computer back, got it, will play when I get home.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Hannibal_of_the_Carthaginians,_900_AD.SAV)

Preturn 800AD:
Except for the Dutch ships near us, it looks good

IBT:
America lands 10 units near Asyut :eek:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/America::s_Attack.JPG
Dutch lands 6 units near Cadiz/Cirta :eek:

Turn 1 810AD:
Utica Musket->Musket
Leptis Magna MI->MI
Sulcis ?Settler->Temple
Can't save Asyut, give to Byzantines
Clear all but 2 Dutch, no losses

IBT:
America takes Asyut and approches Vitoria
Dutch make a landing near Vitoria with 4 Guerilla and 2 inf and move 2 more units from the south
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Vitoria::s_Attack.JPG
What happened while I was gone, the AI learned how to attack from the sea

Turn 2 820AD:
Hippo MI->Musket
Give Vitoria to Sumer

Turn 3 830AD:
Nora Aqueduct->Market
Cadiz Market->Harbor
Malaca Temple->Court
Saldae Temple->Court

Turn 4 840AD:
Theveste MI->Bank
Hadrumetum Barrack->Musket

Turn 5 850AD:
Utica Musket->Bank
Leptis Magna MI->MI
Palace Expansion

IBT:
Spain declares on Byzantine

Turn 6 860AD:
Rusicade Barrack->MI
Byzantine building ToE

IBT:
Dutch declare on Korea
Korea Spain Embargo

Turn 7 870AD:
Carthage Bank->Musket
Byzantine finish ToE :confused:

IBT:
Dutch Sumer peace

Turn 8 880AD:
End deal with Sumer
Notice that Spain has 1 city, make peace with Spain, get Chemistry for 82gpt&6gold

IBT:
Vitoria captured by Sumer

Turn 9 890AD:
Rusaddir Temple->Court
Leptis Magna Caravel->Caravel
Sabratha Aqueduct->Market

IBT:
Korea Byzantine vs Spain
Embargo ends

Turn 10 900AD:
Hippo Musket->Musket
Hadrumetum Musket->Musket
Cirta Caravel->Aqueduct

Notes:
The attack force is in Cadiz, wait for some more money (6 turns for Byzantine deal or when Spain dies) and go take Asyut Dutch will sell peace for 80gold
America will give us at least ~200 gold worth of techs

Whew. Moving so fast after all of those weeks of nothing.

Kaiser_Berger is up.

I've got it.

Give Vitoria to Sumertoo bad, at least it helped us getting some techs cheaper. when we are able to sign peace with Dutch, we should try and that town, it has salt and Dutch do not have it, its trading value is huge for us.

Sorry, that you got all the landings, they did not come during my turns. I should not have said NO to the Dutch demand and I feel signing alliance against America wasn;t the best choice, but maybe at that moment the only viable option.

EDIT: we should also not destroy the Spanish, they might be our only trading partner, unfortunately up to now they seem to have every single tech as the rest as well.

I would like to keep Sumeria Gracious with us and at war with someone else whenever possible. America seemed like the best option as someone against whom we could ally. Especially with American units all over the place. It was not absolutely necessary, though.

Preturn- We look alright. Hire some taxmen in our totally corrupt cities.

IT- Korea and Byzantines ally against America.

T1 910

Load up invasion fleet. Will go next turn.

IT- Dutch ships pass and drop off nothing thankfully.

T2 920

Land our invasion force and spot two Sumerian cavs next to the city. Hopefully they will weaken, not take the city.

IT- Dammit, Sumeria takes the city.

T3 930

Ok, new plan, go for freshly founded Dutch city of Hilversum. Will try and make it happen.

IT- Byzantines want to reneg the furs for spice deal. We do it and get horses in the deal and 50g. We can build some knights instead of MDI. Scratch that, no Chivalry. Oh well.

T4 940

Not much. Move stack to reveal Dutch infantry :vomit:

IT- Dutch infantry atacks our elite musket, and since you're not likely to believe our luck....

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bed5-rng_love_me.JPG


T5 950

Leader will become an army, I'm certain. An army of what, I know not. Move stack into position.

IT- zzz

T6 960

Trebs knock only one hp off the infantry. No attack yet. Hamlicar makes his way back to Carthage, where he forms an empty army.

I make peace with America. For 545g and 61gpt we get Physics.

IT- Haha, sweet, the Dutch sign in the Spanish against us. I wanted out of that gpt payment anyway. Sweet :D

T7 970

We manage to knock the infantry down to 2hp, so i bit the bullet and go for it. We win with the first one, of course revealing a rifle in place :lol: Will wait on that.

IT- zzz

T8 980

Bombardment reveals a Guerilla also in the town. Have to hold off for better bombardment.

IT- Sumeria and America sign peace.

T9 990

Bombardment reveals 3 rifles now in the Dutch town. Screw it for now, will go to other plan of just settling aggressively against them to acquire saltpeter.

IT- Sumeria and Byzantines ally against Dutch :clap:

T10 1000

Seeing two Dutch units leave the city is enough to convince me to try one more time. We redline both rifles, and burn the city with no losses. I move the settler, and it can now settle where it stands, but it will need an IMMEDIATE rushed temple or library to claim the salt before Sumerian culture envelops it.


Summary

We got an army, though it is still empty so we can figure out what to do with it. We torched a Dutch city, and can now claim some extra saltpeter. We have enough money for another deal, but I left it sit to ensure we can rush a temple and/or a library in the new town. As long as wars keep up like this I think we can do alright.

I probably should wait until tomorrow to play this. So expect a report sometime in the next couple of hours.

I probably should wait until tomorrow to play this. So expect a report sometime in the next couple of hours. :crazyeye: huh? which part would be correct? front or back? :lol:

I think we should fill army with Cavs, we are 2 techs away from that and have salt to get them, horsies we can pick from a deal.

looking good, we need to trade/steal our way up and hope we got coal as well. in the end, maybe we need to fight Sumer in a classic showdown :cool:

@ThERat - I rarely do what I should, even when I tell people what I know to be the best.

1000 AD (0) - We are paying 50gpt to Korea for peace at the moment. Renogotiate. Give 98gpt for Metallurgy, a step closer to IA and to cavalry. With the way things have gone thus far, we'll be out of the payments after giving them only a few hundred gold. And if that doesn't happen, I may help it along a bit. Rushed a couple temples in border cities under heavy cultural pressure.

1010 AD (1) - Found Calaris, start temple. Will rush next turn. Switch a couple size sixes to settlers.

IT - Dutch take Vitoria, which is actually good news here. We might be able to get it back.

1020 AD (2) - Rush temple in Calaris.

1050 AD (5) - Carthogo Novo's borders expand and we get another native source of fur, which is nice as we are currently exporting our only source.

IT - Were we paying them anything? I forget.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_1050AD_americans.jpg

1060 AD (6) - Pay 117gpt for Military Tradition, also to Korea. They have a couple ships in our territory, but I then realize that we can only demand their withdrawal, not withdraw or declare. Oops. Well, still time to get lucky and have 'em declare. Upgrade a couple horses and we have a cav army.

1070 AD (7) - Found another little city to grab more territory. You can also see the cav army, which I filled with only two units for now as we haven't gotten Magnetism yet, and the army is really just for show at the moment.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_1070AD_tingis.jpg

Built cavs to finish it out. Nothing terribly exciting. We could sell our only source of saltpeter to the Byzantines for quite a bit. We should be able to get our new source connected soon enough anyway. Quick enough that we wouldn't even slow down our production of cavalry, as the ones in progress will finish, and then the cities can be started on something expensive and then switch over once we get saltpeter again. Also worth noting that the Byzantines have bombers.

We have here our settler and escorts, on the way to claim what used to be a Dutch town but is now only rubble.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_1100AD_settler.jpg

We are paying a huge amount to Korea, and I had no way to get out. They had a frigate and a galley in our territory for two turns, but even on the second turn we didn't get the option to tell them to leave or declare. I don't really get why. I would not have made the second deal had I known this would be the case. If the next player has any ideas to honorably get us out of the remainder of our gpt payments, it would be a boon to our economy. If we can't, then I pretty much screwed up. At least the money is going to a weaker civ.

Here's the diplo scene. The only thing really giving us hope here.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_1100AD_diplo.jpg

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed05_1200AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
do not go for salt trade, it looks kind of unsure whether we can keep that salt

1.1110AD
shift units and settler

IT American land 1 Cav :lol:

2.1120AD
look around for elite find a num merc but killing Cav won't give us a leader

IT get a landing far north in our home land from Dutch :eek: maybe we need peace after all
Spain and Korea sign peace

3 1130AD
manage to kill 2 offender and retreat one, we are safe for now

IT our lux deal is up, we won't get horses for now but get lux and 280g

4. 1140AD
make peace with Dutch, better that way and there are some Americans trying to steal that spot, we need to concentrate on them

have an idea for a very evil plan :mischief:
sell Dutch saltpeter and 20gpt for 850g
use money for immediate steal

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed51140.jpg

need to use the money, make peace with Spain for magnetism and 100gpt
reduce lux to 0% and we still make 212gpt
in 5 turns we can use that money for an immediate steal on Spain

IT wow, America makes this huge landing next to Vitoria (around 20 Cavs)
time for peace

5.1150AD
chicken out and go for peace with America
Utica goes for Military Academy
raze just founded Chonju

IT Koreans land 3 Cavs, one gets attacked by Dutch

6.1160AD
defeat those 3 cavs, join one more Cav into army (since we can build galleons)

IT with all those American units around, its no surprise that Dutch and America ally against Sumer :D
and against Korea as well, let's hope they rip each other apart :lol:

7.1170AD
found city in the south

IT Vitoria is now American and Asyut might well be so soon
Sumer prefers to cancel RoP, ok

8. 1180AD
army starts to attack Santander, beat 2 units there, including drafted rifle

IT Asyut is American now

9. 1190AD
raze Satander (it was size 8, major flip risk)
send 2 settler south
there is nothing we can gain from that war at the moment, since we need to prepare more first.
get peace and ToG for 90gpt and we enter IA
finally there is a tech the Spanish do not have that's Nationalism

10.1200AD
steal Nationalism from America and can trade it with Spain
get steam and economics for it
we have no coal :cry: , there is a source near our 2nd Island in Korean hands
now we make 133gpt and are tide to deals for a while but we can always use unconventional ways to escape that
we could get coal from America for 30gpt or so
2 settlers are on the way to claim more spot down south and increase out income
left workers alone for next player to use, if coal is taken
we have Spain for a potential 2 fer on medicine later on

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed51200.jpg

Got it will try for tonight.

Nice progress. I'd get the coal now, we can't afford to wait on rails.

Nice work freeing up that land, getting out of the tech deal. It is just too bad it took that long to be able to do so. We are back in the game, and without any GL slingshot.

Where exactly was the coal? If we can settle it and hook it up within 10-12 turns, I think it is a good idea to hold off on buying coal. If it would take 13+ turns to get it hooked up, let's buy the coal anyway, and build some workers in corrupt places. Rails will do us wonders.

We also need to start preparing for what I imagine we all knew was inevitable. Do we go after the Sumerians as soon as we get infantry and artillery? We could do a mass upgrade, storm their border cities and old Egyptian lands, and then just try to hold onto the choke and dear life. Do we think that they'll have tanks soon? And how does their railnet look? I haven't seen any infantry from them. Do they even have rubber? We'll need to figure all of this stuff out. If war looks absolutely impossible, we are only really left with hoping we can stay in the tech race and get to space first. So what do we do?

Well, as Sid Vicious showed us all, once you have infantry and artillery almost anything is overcomable. I think we'll have to block the choke really well, infantry fortified in baricades for sure with some arty support. If they have no rubber, there should be no tanks. If we can hold them off their, we should be able to mop up old Egypt. First things first, we need to get to Replaceable Parts.

Yes, getting RP is probably important. I was just considering whether we wanted to take more of a builder approach for awhile or still all out military. If we built libraries and universities, we would actually be able to research at a decent pace, I would think. Or, we can try to get Espionage and just steal from here on out.

I would go for steals. Research is going to be too costly IMHO. Unis will take a good while to set up, I think we'll progess much faster building up cash for steals.

well, the coal in on the other Island south where Korea has 2 towns. we might want to take that after the peace deal expires or so.

Sumer gets a real beating at the moment, Dutch and America pound them like crazy I think. And yes, no rubber for them I think since they still show rifles.

What showed again is that Sumer actually is slowed down by those tonnes of units they have. It cost them dearly I think to have those mountains of obsolete units.
We can now build rifles while we have no horses and wait for RP and arty with infantry. Let's go after Sumer then.

And bedhead, forget about research at SID level here.

Research through the last age would have been preferable to buying if we had ever actually finished off the deals. Since we got out of most payments, the way we did it was better, but had we actually honored the deals self research is preferable.

bedhead, read goz8 for example (that was deity) how we stole our way all the way up. look at how many techs we got through deals (and we DID honour the deals, it's not our fault if the AI decides to attack or declare). Our rep is still intact and that's very important.

we would never get anywhere fast enough if we try and self research, this is SID and we have not beaten AI's to near extinction. The only reason why we are still in the race is due to the fact that we have a very even game here with no runaway Civ.

I'd say build workers to RR (get coal immediately from America). Keep on brokering for techs to use to defer AI's from declaring.

EDIT: look at Sumer now, I think they could be minced meat soon, since the others really pound them. Lucky they all fight like mad

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Hannibal_of_the_Carthaginians,_1275_AD.SAV)

Preturn 1200AD:
Plans save up enough for steal on Korea, if success Communism, then Medicine from Spain, if failure then we take their coal, 10+ turns for that kind of money.
Shop for coal, America is the only seller, get coal for 27gpt