View Full Version : Advanced modern research and military production


Loppan Torkel
Feb 08, 2005, 01:05 PM
India is interested in buying 126 military aircrafts and has asked Sweden, Russia, France and the US for info on what they can offer. From what I know they were developing their own Light Combat Aircraft, LCA, which now seems like a failure. The US will probably get their hands on the order since they are pretty influential, but it's pretty remarkable that Sweden with 9 million inhabitants are competing for this big order of aircrafts to India which probably holds over a billion persons. :king:

To somewhat simulate this - Should they make military research in the modern era even more expensive or optional, to make it a viable strategy to ignore it and buy those units from other civs while you focus your research or money in some other area, or vice versa?
There aren't that many nations in the world building military aircrafts, battleships, destroyers, nuclear submarines or aircraftcarriers....

DexterJ
Feb 08, 2005, 01:42 PM
yes because that would further enhance diplomacy and also give an arms trade option. it would allow different great powers to build up influence with small nations and would therefore add to the later part of the game. it would only really apply to the more advanced or expensive military hardware so you wouldnt rely on larger nations for all your military, only the offensive capability.

searcheagle
Feb 08, 2005, 01:56 PM
I have like this idea and I especially like the way you would implement it. I like the idea that you could send out "bids" to all the civs that you are at peace with. Those that accept would send back what they would accept for payment and you decide what deal or deals you will accept.

This should not be limited to the modern age as some have suggested. Historically, mercenaries have been used for thousands of years for civ to quickly increase its power so it can wage a war or defend itself.

Loppan Torkel
Feb 09, 2005, 11:07 AM
I have like this idea and I especially like the way you would implement it. I like the idea that you could send out "bids" to all the civs that you are at peace with. Those that accept would send back what they would accept for payment and you decide what deal or deals you will accept.

True, that would be cool, espescially in multiplayergames. I'm not sure how the AI would handle a feature like that.

However, the first paragraph I wrote is actually a real world event - India wants to improve their airforce from rusty MIG-21s to Gripens, Falcons, Hornets, Fulcrums, Flankers, Mirages or Rafaels, or perhaps their own LCA if it's still in development....

In the realworld very few nations are building advanced military equipment, most buy them. How should it be simulated in a good way in civ?

Loppan Torkel
Feb 10, 2005, 02:55 AM
What about, like already suggested in other places, letting a minor wonder be a requirement for building each specific military unit in modern times. When you've researched 'modern fighter planes' you'll have to build the small wonder in the city you want to build your planes in. After the first 'modern fighter'-wonder you'd be able to build another, cheaper one in a different city, and then a third even cheaper one, etc, up to a maximum of, for example, five or a maximum based on some factor. The planes would come with a small improvement in some area, with each small wonder to simulate the competition in the market.
The 'Aircraft carrier'-small wonder would of course be more costly and have a lower number of maximum small wonders.

This idea would make it more interesting, which units to focus and invest in and to make it up for the investments by selling and which ones to ignore researching and building, and instead to have a friendly civ that you'd be able to buy them from.

Of course Firaxis still needs to prevent snowballing to make modern era fun, if there's atill competition I think this idea would be good.

Loppan Torkel
Feb 12, 2005, 08:29 AM
Another thing I'd like to introduce in the modern era is the 'No option to upgrade'.

F-16s don't get upgraded to stealth fighters, they're sold to poorer nations or turned to junk to avoid the upkeep.
The same applies to tanks, ships, submarines and missiles.
This would make military investments in the modern era more expensive, which is a good thing. It would fit perfectly with the earlier ideas, and contribute in making the world a place for global armssales.

DexterJ
Feb 12, 2005, 09:44 AM
Do people think that research should be split between military and non-military (at least in the modern age). Therefore nations could rely on buying their advanced weaponry from others and not have to invest in expensive research. This would make it more realistic and make it more likely that a civ would buy others weapons (save on research time and expense).

Loppan Torkel
Feb 12, 2005, 01:19 PM
Do people think that research should be split between military and non-military (at least in the modern age). Therefore nations could rely on buying their advanced weaponry from others and not have to invest in expensive research. This would make it more realistic and make it more likely that a civ would buy others weapons (save on research time and expense).
I gave this some thought earlier, but I think it's better if it's only one techtree. Perhaps the techtree just should have more and deeper optional branches which would allow you to research or ignore certain paths that don't are necessary for your civ's progress, like military doctrines and development.

Plus if it's like in civ3 it would still be easy to build the military units as soon as you've traded or researched the tech. I'd like to see small wonders to build the units, like I described more accurately a few posts up.