The files are:
http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ3/graphics/USA01.zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ3/graphics/USA02.zip

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bush012.jpg

This pack included the new American UU, the Minuteman, a new wonders, the Statue of Liberty and new diplomacy.txt to Bush (by Plotius). Dubya replaces Abe LH.

REMEMBER: it is a NON-POLITICAL thread ;)
REMEMBER 2: I like the feedbacks for future changes, but take care with the use of words like "horrible", "bizarre" and didn't do bash the LH or me for any reason ;) It is sad and immature, but already happened in this thread :(

Not sure I like the modern background, but everything else about this is fantastic.

Ahahaha! This is pretty good, I'll have major joygasms sacking D.C. in my next game!

This is going to make fighting the Americans a lot more fun. ;)

Not bad, but I can't understand why he's wearing a giant teddy bear in the ancient era....

Other eras look good though.

I'm glad you made this LH, and since you did, might as well add these towns/cities to the American city list:

Tombstone: Where the OK Corral gunfight between the Clanton/McLowery gang and the Earp Brothers & Doc Holliday occurred, also where Boot Hill cemetary is located.

Dodge City: one of the most lawless towns in Kansass, and where Wild Bill Hicock was killed. It was also where Wyatt Earp, Virgil Earp, Morgan Earp and Doc Holliday first made names for themselves by taking out all the criminals.

A Terrible leaderhead of a terrible leader. Towards the end of the development, Civ army refused to listen to the hordes of Civ Fanaticers which demanded that he improve the quailty of the hair, redo his un-bushlike face, and remove the ugly bear.

A Terrible leaderhead of a terrible leader. Towards the end of the development, Civ army refused to listen to the hordes of Civ Fanaticers which demanded that he improve the quailty of the hair, redo his un-bushlike face, and remove the ugly bear.

If u think it was terrible, u should do one yourself. Some resources in Poser r limited, like the hair and the textures to the bear prop. And if u think the makers of these props r too bad, u should produce your own props. Maybe the maker of these props r reading your comment right now, it is now polite call ugly a cretion to its creator and be not able to do a better job. And don't turn this thread political calling Dubya "terrible".


----------------------------------------

@to all the other posters: thanks for the construtive feed back! :)

Not bad, but I can't understand why he's wearing a giant teddy bear in the ancient era....

Other eras look good though.

Blame me for the bear. I suggested to give Bush a more Native American for the Ancient era because, in my mod, the AMericans start out as Native Americans (a.k.a. the Delaware tribe) and later morph into english-influenced settlers in the late medieval era and then at the dawn of the industrial era they morph again, into what we now know to be the United States of America. Many people here may disagree with my approach, but to me, it only makes sense: To have the Americans as a "european style" civ in ancient times just doesn't gel with me. At least, with the way I did it, it moreso reflects the historical progress of one of the most successful democracies in history.

If you wanted to have a totally American leaderhead from start to finish, all you'd have to do is replace the first era with a pilgrim, think of civ's first era as a pilgrim at the time of the first Thanksgiving, hanging out with the natives so to speak... :goodjob:

I agree, don't make this thread a political thread. I think G.W. Bush looks good. GOOD JOB! :goodjob:

I think it looks good and recognizable. The sheriff especially is very cool :thumbsup: , but the bearhead is a bot silly :)

I feel that I must stick up for CivArmy here. The leaderhead is, as Aaglo states, good and recognisable as Bush. Poser leaderheads will always look like - well, a Poser leaderhead - and purely resemble a leader. IMHO, CivArmy has done a really good job.

Please don't forget that creators on CFC aren't paid to get everything 100% accurate, it's simply a hobby where the output is shared with the rest of the community to use or not, dependant on each individual member. For every person that would prefer not to use this particular leaderhead, there'll be someone else thankful that CivArmy has taken the trouble to create and share it. In some ways, the main problem with doing Bush as a leaderhead is that he is always in the news, people see images of him almost every day in various settings and it's difficult to capture everyone's perception in one leaderhead. IMHO, had Bush been President in the 1990s and had been out of the spotlight for a few years, more people would appreciate the accuracy of CivArmy's work.

Whilst I appreciate that Goldflash is entitled to his opinion - which is often in praise of leaderheads that are created - I feel he was rather harsh on this occasion. We leaderhead makers post our leaderheads on the site to share our hobby with those that want to use them - not to open ourselves to unwarrented criticism.

I love the industrial age leaderhead :lol:

Looks pretty good CivArmy! :)

I see nothing wrong with Goldflash posting his opinion. We shouldn't all have the same copy/pasted response of "Good Job :) :goodjob:". I don't agree with him though, except on account of the bear hat sucking. Other than that, I think its pretty good, and I really like the industrial age. It resembles GW, although its no splitting image of the president, but thats a pretty difficult task given that, unlike Ghenghis khan, queen elizibeth, or king david, we see bush's face nearly daily (well those of us living in the US and idunno, maybe elsewhere) and theres little room for artistic interpratation.
Oh yeah, I don't like how GF slipped "terrible president" in there. Why is it democrats always feel the need to slip their political views into every conversation they have? "I'd like to order the the veal alexia, that looks good, unlike that lousy Bush!!"

Bungus, saying someone's artwork is "terrible" is uncalled for. You yourself have suggested I scrap one of my leaderheads before and start again. It's those sort of comments that make people like me feel that I shouldn't bother sharing artwork with the community.

I don't recall calling Civ's head "terrible".. I believe those are goldflash's words... If you're attacking me for my stance on encouraging people to post what they think of someone's work instead of merely regurgitating some phony praise you saw on a poster on the wall of your high school guidance counselor’s office, well, I should hope men can handle criticism and an occasional dissenting opinion. There's no need to candy-coat anything for anyone outside of a mental ward or old folk's home.
I don't think anyone should stop making/sharing creations here. You shouldn't stop doing something you like cause one (or several dozen) don't appreciate it. Hell, even if that person(s) telling you your latest karaoke performance of "Cheeseburger in Paradise" sucks is right, everybody lays a turd every now and then. That doesn’t mean you should stop getting drunk and requesting bad Jimmy Buffett songs... or posting you latest civ work. That said, as I said before, I really don't agree with Goldflash at all (except of the bear head... just cause you have the prop, doesn't mean you have to use it. There's a "No Fear" hat sitting in my closet someone gave to me back from '94 that I haven't touched yet. (I haven't found an adequate waste disposal system yet to deal with the problem. Seriously, what a ****ty fad...)).
Btw, @R8FXT, I was being sarcastic... It'll make a lot more sense once I figure out how to post pictures.

I was referring to Goldflash's "terrible" remark; I'm aware that it wasn't you that said it. Also, having gone to grammar school in England, I never had a high school counsellor ;) .
That said, my feelings are that there is a certain etiquette I'd expect on forums such as this. For me, it's ok to state that, for example, the bearskin is not what you'd associate with the ancient era, suggesting (as Sword_Of_Geddon did) that a Pilgrim outfit might be more suitable. However, you'd need to also accept that it's CivArmy's choice which prop to use at the end of the day. Stating that it's a "terrible leaderhead" is uncalled for and goes against the etiquette I'd expect from an established forum member. This is, incidentally, not meant to be a bash at Goldflash either, as it's only one comment he made - most of his comments have been positive ones.
The only reason why I said about not sharing creations is that I do requests for people (some of whom never post a comment) - it takes hours to do, I never use it myself, so the last thing I want would be unwarrented and unfair criticism. I'm a person after all, not a "leaderhead machine" ;) .

I'm a person after all, not a "leaderhead machine" ;) .
That's great. Now get back to work on those Native American leaderheads I asked for...

That's great. Now get back to work on those Native American leaderheads I asked for...

Ok ;) . However, as I posted in the D&D leaderheads thread, I'll be concentrating on Anno Domini for a couple of weeks, then coming back to finish off the other leaderheads :) .

Although yes, the "Good Job" posts are very...cliche, saying something is horrible is hurtful and unappreciative of the hard work that people put into the hobby. Nevertheless, I'd prefer people to point out what they like about the work, rather than cut and paste "Good Job" in every post. Theres a reason why Wyrmshadow is so cynical when it comes to responses to his work, he's heard "Good Job" over and over again, and after awile it seems two-diamensional and shallow(Does the person even mean it or is he/she just posting for the heck of it).

The problem with GF bad post were:
- he called my creation horrible
- he called the prop done by Kinboat (the bear suit) horrible
- he called Bush horrible, it could turn the thread political

If he wants call Bush a horrible or excelente president, he can do that in the "off-topic" forums, not here, it is the forum rules, your United Nation :) . And I don't think it is polite call some LH or prop horrible, he has the power to do good LHs or good props himself or just give suggestions, a.e., "change the prop or the LH clothes style, it is not suitable" (but never call them horrible or crap). BTW, I don't see GF doing that all the time, he already posted good suggestions in the past, but a comment like this one was not the first time.
I really don't see people just saying "good work", I love it, but I also love construtive feedback, u know, "I suggest change this hat, what do u think we change this background"... And I see the posters doing that in my thread, and I thanksful. One point: people must be polite to do that, posts like "change this right now, I don't like, cos it is horrible!" r not accetable and sometimes happen in my threads. The other problem r few posters that think the creators r here working (and not sharing hobby) and think we must do what they wish.
For final, I hear all the construtive feedbacks and take my decision myself to do or not the changes. Of course, sometime the resources r limited and I can not do what I'd like to do.

Bungus, R8FXT, Sword of Geddom, thanks for the comments about this eposodie, and thanks for the PMs that I received about the same, but I think the case is solved and I'm sure GF will continue posting in my thread, he is welcome, but not posting other comment like this one :)

Very good way of handling it Civ.

In my opinion he still looks like Bush sr, more then Dubya, but I can easily see him working for both...Not to mention the cowboy and puritan are good stand alone leaderheads. The bear suit could use some texture, but I still like the idea...Perhaps you could fix it, if a better one is ever released...A very good LH none the less.

To be brutally honest, while I think CivArmy's work on other projects is generally spectacular, I am disappointed with this one for a number of reasons, which include but are not limited to the following:

1. The bearskin suit in the ancient era looks bizarre. He looks as if he is being eaten by some prehistoric animal.

2. The sailing ship in the Middle Ages makes it look as if he is hovering in the middle of the ocean.

3. The background in the modern era looks like some kind of strange Christmas decoration, not the office of a head of state.

George Bush himself looks good, about as good as can be expected given the limitations of the software. But I think that the choice of props and backgrounds in all but the Industrial era leaves much to be desired. I am sorry to sound so harsh, but I think this project falls far short of its potential.

To be brutally honest, while I think CivArmy's work on other projects is generally spectacular, I am disappointed with this one for a number of reasons, which include but are not limited to the following:

1. The bearskin suit in the ancient era looks bizarre. He looks as if he is being eaten by some prehistoric animal.

2. The sailing ship in the Middle Ages makes it look as if he is hovering in the middle of the ocean.

3. The background in the modern era looks like some kind of strange Christmas decoration, not the office of a head of state.

George Bush himself looks good, about as good as can be expected given the limitations of the software. But I think that the choice of props and backgrounds in all but the Industrial era leaves much to be desired. I am sorry to sound so harsh, but I think this project falls far short of its potential.

make Bush yourself next time ;)

Nicely done, but IMO it doesn't really look like Bush :sad:.

*evil laugh*
that's awesome

Nicely done, but IMO it doesn't really look like Bush :sad:.

I'll agree it's not perfect, but it's probably as close as some of the official civ heads

:hatsoff: I have no problems recognizing Dubya, and the UU is also excellent.
I prefer this American civ to the one of Firaxis by far.
One of your best creations, CivArmy s.1994, and that says quite a lot... :hatsoff:

make Bush yourself next time ;)

Is that what you tell everyone who tries to offer constructive criticism? If I made a poor creation I would want people to honestly express themselves, and not sugar-coat their comments. My job involves extensive writing, and people criticize my work all the time. That's the only way that I am able to improve my product. I meant no offense to you and am sorry if you took my comments personally because that was not my intention.

Is that what you tell everyone who tries to offer constructive criticism? If I made a poor creation I would want people to honestly express themselves, and not sugar-coat their comments. My job involves extensive writing, and people criticize my work all the time. That's the only way that I am able to improve my product. I meant no offense to you and am sorry if you took my comments personally because that was not my intention.

construtive feedback is one thing totaly diffent of what u were doing all the times in my threads, call a prop/scenario bizarre/horrible is not construtive, it was not the first time u did this and I don't want start a new discussion like that one generate by Goldflash about this same LH.
I'd like ask people don't post replays about this new episodie, please ;)

@to all the other posters: thanks for the comments :)

As the creator of the bear suit I'd just like to point out that it was never really meant to be viewed that large. It was designed for a unit and CivArmy would use a better one if he could find one I'm sure. You've got to work with the tools you've got.

The face itself looks fine to me... I can tell who it's supposed to represent, better than some others out there.

That said if CivArmy wants to redo the ancient age with a different fur outfit I could make one that would look better at that scale... Or maybe a pilgrim motif would work better.

As the creator of the bear suit I'd just like to point out that it was never really meant to be viewed that large. It was designed for a unit and CivArmy would use a better one if he could find one I'm sure. You've got to work with the tools you've got.

The face itself looks fine to me... I can tell who it's supposed to represent, better than some others out there.

That said if CivArmy wants to redo the ancient age with a different fur outfit I could make one that would look better at that scale... Or maybe a pilgrim motif would work better.

I'm sure I saw in DAZ a expensive NA clothes props, if someday I bought them I can do the replacement :) Until there, the Kinboat's bearsuit designed to units will be used in my LH when necessary :)

It's fine for a regular leaderhead (well, if you like CivArmy's work - it's consistent), but it's definately not George W. Bush.

Now CivArmy will want to very much so reply to this with 'make your own' (which hopefully he won't, because that would be immature at this point - and quite frankly I don't want Bush in my game, even as the enemy), but he also pointed out that negative feedback should be in the form of 'constructive criticism' - which is in fact what I will give, even though my opinion goes much further:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/CABush.jpg

The clothes he wears is out of place. The bearskin deal is reasonable, but I would expect something more closely resembling Lincoln's attire for the Ancient Age. The Middle Age doesn't look American at all. I would suggest changing the background to a wilderness/camp setting & changing the hat to maybe a racoonskin hat like what Davey Crocket wore. That would match the shirt well and give a more middle-age feel to him. The Industrial Age is great, though what's with the plaid & sheriff deal? He's the leader of an empire, not a town. The Modern age is only faulted at the background. A simple American flag would have been sufficient. Of course, than, he rarely wears a red tie. Blue is his choice 90% of the time, but not a big deal.

Now for Bush himself. His teeth are a tad big - they look normal - but Bush has small teeth. His brow is curved in a way, which was done right, but you shouldn't have put in the slight wrinkles at the top. He's not unsure - he's very assured, as the world now knows. He's a 'cowboy' - remember? His smile shouldn't be with a curvature of the ends of his lips, as his smile stays stretches out and forms more of an "o" shape than it does a "u" shape. The angry mouth is way off - he tends to frown a bit, like a dog per se. Curling up the corner of his mouth is fine, but only one side - not both. The easiest fix would be to simply move the curls inward a bit - showing the mid-ridge of his upper lip that you can clearly see in the attached picture. The lines around his mouth, his chin, ears and nose are great. There should be a small line around the chin though, as he does have a little fat on the sides, but his jawbone pertrudes out from it noticably. That would help define his face more, as it's a predominate feature of his. His eyes are pretty good, but the inside corners should be raised a tiny bit so that the upper eye lid is parallel to his lower brow - that's standard on all people. Also, the bags under his eyes are way too low. Again, a small line just below the eye would work the same as on the chin, and help define his face. The biggest flaw is the hair. I'm not getting into texture, as such, but rather direction. His hair is never combed back, but parted to the left. A simple redirection would be sufficient, as the colors and shape are otherwise close enough.

The leader is great as a general Euro-American Civ, but it doesn't look like Bush. When attempting to make a leaderhead based on a real person, you need to take extra time and pay attention not to the details so much, but to the features that stick out the most. Getting those right makes the image catch the eye of the viewer.

Hopefully this feedback filled with suggestions for corrections qualifies as 'constructive criticism' enough for you.

@Sourboy, I just read the first words and didn't read the rest, if u don't like me or think the creations r bad to u, u should not download them, not post in my thread, not spend your good time here and produce your not regular stuff yourself. I'm here to share hobby and I'm doing it well with many other players and creators, if u don't want do that with me, u have this freedom choice

IF you didn't read the rest, then you chose not to see why I, and many others, feel this free work isn't Bush, but rather a general leaderhead. I'm not putting down your work, but rather trying to give input as to what areas were off and why. By acknowledging your flaws, you can correct them & thus become a better creator.

If you prefer to keep making things at the same level, that's fine - it's your decision. However, learn to accept criticism, constructive or not. Most prefer to refine their talents so as to impress themselves, and naturally others. Wouldn't you want to be the guy who makes leaderheads that put people in awe & receive comments like 'wow, it's better than I expected!'?

IF you didn't read the rest, then you chose not to see why I, and many others, feel this free work isn't Bush, but rather a general leaderhead. I'm not putting down your work, but rather trying to give input as to what areas were off and why. By acknowledging your flaws, you can correct them & thus become a better creator.

If you prefer to keep making things at the same level, that's fine - it's your decision. However, learn to accept criticism, constructive or not. Most prefer to refine their talents so as to impress themselves, and naturally others. Wouldn't you want to be the guy who makes leaderheads that put people in awe & receive comments like 'wow, it's better than I expected!'?

I have the concience where I can get better, sometimes I can't do that for fault of experience (and start draw in computer 1 year before these days), fault of graphic editor (they r not perfect) or fault of time and I listen all the time good and bad feedbacks to how to increase the quality of my "work" (hobby), all the people (including me) has a blind point. Cos this blind point is good listen the opinion of others, but many time people say wrong things, sometimes for don't know nothing about what they r suggesting (it is not necessary the case of your post).
I just doubt u wanted help, whanever your points r right or not about Bush LH looks like real Bush or not, your post look like pure bash. I think this for the beggining "It's fine for a regular leaderhead (well, if you like CivArmy's work - it's consistent), but it's definately not George W. Bush". And I also believe your capacite to judge a LH in Poser 5.0 is regular (and looks like consistent).
Make sure when (if) I do a new version, I'll read what was typed after the image, I think there the suggestion of changes are. And I'll read the other opinions, whanever I agree or not.
To finish: if u wanted a bash, u did one, if u wanted a good feedback, u were not able to do one and if u want do comparations I think your post was worst then what u think about my LHs.

That bear is good. Although its a bit silly, so are many other things in civ (which shows that our dear Sid has humour).

Anyway, its better than having a stretched picture that's as still as... well, a non-moving image :D

CivArmy, I had a similiar situation when making my WWII scenario, someone said "why don't you just quit" and I ended putting that on the credits with an "I'll show you" after it ;)

That bear is good. Although its a bit silly, so are many other things in civ (which shows that our dear Sid has humour).

Anyway, its better than having a stretched picture that's as still as... well, a non-moving image :D

CivArmy, I had a similiar situation when making my WWII scenario, someone said "why don't you just quit" and I ended putting that on the credits with an "I'll show you" after it ;)

Thanks for enjoying, for the ellogie and for the suggestion :) U did your suggestion of a polite form, other posters were not able to do that :( And it is good to know u have finished your scenario and didn't heard that ones who have tryed bashed your scenario :goodjob:

I don't think this is such a bad leader head. I've certainly seen worse.

The one thing I would change, is the smile. It looks a bit unnatural. I've seen many of your other leaderheads, and offered comments on a couple (Danes & norwegians); generally their facial expressions look more natural then this one. The bearhead is ok, assuming you wanted the ancient image to reflect the native-americans. Maybe add teeth? I've seen some native american headdress, and they left the teeth in to look fierce.
The sheriff is a good idea, but you should remove the star from the hat. It makes him look like a cheerleader for the dallas cowboys. Sheriffs and other lawmen, only had 1 star and they typically wore it on either their shirt or their vest (if they wore a vest). You might also consider removeing the vest and have him in just his shirt (with badge & plain hat) would look cool that way, I think.
The middle ages I would keep pretty much as is. I like the pilgrims.
The modern age looks good in the forground, but the background is a bit confusing. I can't tell what it is supposed to be.
There is no doubt that GW Bush is one of americas most important presidents. He has had to lead the nation through a very difficult time, and his winning by the largest amount in 40+ years says most americans want him to continue. But, he is still the current sitting president and there are those who are still hurting from the smashing they took in the polls. So, it might have been a better choice to use another great president. Some obvious alternatives would be: Teddy Rosevelt, John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan. All are dead, but all were loved while alive.
As to the earlier extremely harsh comments and their political tone. They were childish and completely uncalled for. I believe in being critical. It helps us improve. But there is a huge difference between a critique and a personal attack.

U did your suggestion of a polite form, other posters were not able to do that :(

It's all in the smilies :p

Good modern background would be (duh) the White House.

I don't think this is such a bad leader head. I've certainly seen worse.

The one thing I would change, is the smile. It looks a bit unnatural. I've seen many of your other leaderheads, and offered comments on a couple (Danes & norwegians); generally their facial expressions look more natural then this one. The bearhead is ok, assuming you wanted the ancient image to reflect the native-americans. Maybe add teeth? I've seen some native american headdress, and they left the teeth in to look fierce.
The sheriff is a good idea, but you should remove the star from the hat. It makes him look like a cheerleader for the dallas cowboys. Sheriffs and other lawmen, only had 1 star and they typically wore it on either their shirt or their vest (if they wore a vest). You might also consider removeing the vest and have him in just his shirt (with badge & plain hat) would look cool that way, I think.
The middle ages I would keep pretty much as is. I like the pilgrims.
The modern age looks good in the forground, but the background is a bit confusing. I can't tell what it is supposed to be.
There is no doubt that GW Bush is one of americas most important presidents. He has had to lead the nation through a very difficult time, and his winning by the largest amount in 40+ years says most americans want him to continue. But, he is still the current sitting president and there are those who are still hurting from the smashing they took in the polls. So, it might have been a better choice to use another great president. Some obvious alternatives would be: Teddy Rosevelt, John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan. All are dead, but all were loved while alive.
As to the earlier extremely harsh comments and their political tone. They were childish and completely uncalled for. I believe in being critical. It helps us improve. But there is a huge difference between a critique and a personal attack.


thanks for the suggestions of changes in this LH :) For me take the decisions present in the LH I listened for weeks many suggestions (the styles of eras, the backgrounds...) and all the time I have been doing the alterations. The original one is a bit different of this one that we have today :)
One point: the Bush LH was a request and I agree there is other more important presidents in USA then him, if the requests appear I'm sure me and other creators could do them. BTW, Rita Poon did Ronald Reagan mounths ago :)


Good modern background would be (duh) the White House.

I know, but Ronald Reagen has this background and it was suggest to me try do not repeat the backgrounds/styles ever present in other American LH. For this same reason I quit the idea to dress Bush like Romanish Emperor in Ancient Time. I tried do part of the gardens and window of White House, the entire Oval Office is not too easy to be done and would take so long time and maybe pay props :)

You could just use photographs, whatever works best in any given situation I say. Or, you could combine a photograph with poser-generated stuff(Desk, other ferniture), would that look ok?

You could just use photographs, whatever works best in any given situation I say. Or, you could combine a photograph with poser-generated stuff(Desk, other ferniture), would that look ok?

Yes, I could, but the better choice is use background generated by graphic softwares like Bryce toghter with Poser stuff. I'm learning how Bryce works and using this resource Bryce + Poser in the my most recently LHs :)

Yes, I could, but the better choice is use background generated by graphic softwares like Bryce toghter with Poser stuff. I'm learning how Bryce works and using this resource Bryce + Poser in the my most recently LHs :)

I guess that's just personal preference. I think a photograph, if it's a good one, looks much better than most computer generated 3D stuff. If it's done by a person with no much experience on those programs it may look terribly unnatural, and plastic-like, whereas you can never go wrong with a photograph (unless it's a very bad quality picture).

I guess that's just personal preference. I think a photograph, if it's a good one, looks much better than most computer generated 3D stuff. If it's done by a person with no much experience on those programs it may look terribly unnatural, and plastic-like, whereas you can never go wrong with a photograph (unless it's a very bad quality picture).

I started using photos and I think the background look like too 2D, in these graphic softwares (ther r not hard to be learned) u can do the objetics look alike 2D, plus, u can use Poser stuff to full the scene :) The textures comes with the software, if u don't prefer do your own ones, u just need choice "land, ocean, sea, wood..." like in Poser. Today I just use photos in some cases, when I want some famous mommument and they r not available in the 3D prop sites :)

Well Civ my friend, R8XFT has recently switched to your method(Computer-generated backgrounds) and I must say that it looks simply fantastic. I think its not a matter of that the backgrounds look poor, just a matter of that Civ's skill at modeling backgrounds hasn't yet matched his skill at leaderheads.

Heres another idea for you to try if you want civ: Why not back the backgrounds like you've been doing, but if theres any windows that have something outside(scenery etc) maybe have a photograph there. I'm curious how it would turn out.

Well Civ my friend, R8XFT has recently switched to your method(Computer-generated backgrounds) and I must say that it looks simply fantastic. I think its not a matter of that the backgrounds look poor, just a matter of that Civ's skill at modeling backgrounds hasn't yet matched his skill at leaderheads.

Heres another idea for you to try if you want civ: Why not back the backgrounds like you've been doing, but if theres any windows that have something outside(scenery etc) maybe have a photograph there. I'm curious how it would turn out.

I appreciate the suggestion, but I'll not came back to photos :) I think my scenario now r much better then they were (and more closer of the scenarios of Civ3, which doesn't use photos). I'm really surprise u think the old scenarios r better then these ones, but I respect your opinion :)
I saw R8FXT backgrounds, I think he is using ready backgrounds done in Poser, I have some of them too, like the ancient era of the Kiwi civi and the entire scenario of USA in my game Civilization Fighter. If u check this scenario of my game and the scenario of one his NA new LHs u'll see that they r the same prop, I mean the NA in the "wild west". The graphic background that I'm using I generate myself in Bryce using Bryce props and I think I'll use more Bryce, to do untis for example, in the future, for what I saw this software is better then Poser. But I doubt it could be used to generate LHs like Poser does.
We have to remember also the quality of pay scenarios done by profissionals designers, they r better than that ones that I'm doing, I'm just learning and I'm not gratuated in this area :)
Other point that call my attention: to be honest I used just few photos, I think when I start do my first 10 LHs I used photos, I use graphic scenarios a longer time (and much more then photos), the difference is the software that I was using, it was not Bryce, but Terragen.

EDITED: I have a example using the Bush LH. Check the Ancient Era, it uses pay prop to Poser and the Midde Ages uses Bryce scenario done by me using Bryce props.
EDITED2: I remember other stuff of Bryce, it is better then Poser to do wonder splashs

Well, again, I think it's a matter of personal preference, and not much more than that. Other factors play a role there as well: I prefer pics not only because they are easier to be found, and require less work, but also because I don't have the time/money required to learn to use another program, which would probably make my leaderhead creation much slower than it already is.
Mainly what I don't like about 3D generated stuff, is that it may take the attention away from the leaderhead, since I think it might be more difficult to reduce it's "sharpness", as opposed to a pic, where I can smudge or sharpen it practically as much as I can. That's why the only times I used 3D stuff was through pics I got somewhere else (for Mussolini's head), since I needed something which would look roman enough, without looking as if it's 2000 years old.

Well, I don't think theres anything wrong with the Poser generated stuff(The Background for Ancient Lautaro for example is incredible.) Some of the backgrounds for your first leadeheads(the photo ones) I thought were very good though(The waterfall in the first generation Paraquay leader for example).

I'm glad that I moved to Poser-generated backgrounds. They just blend better IMHO. There's nothing wrong with photographs - I just prefer the Poser ones myself. The key thing for me is to have a background that fits, but doesn't impose itself in a way that takes the attention away from the leaderhead itself.

Civ has done a great job with some of his backgrounds. For example, the Rapa-Nui leaderhead. In the eras, it is an excellilent example of crafting the background and leaderhead toghether in such a way that they compliment each other.

I agree, there is no problem with photos, but I prefer (and just use) more backgrounds generated in Bryce and others + Poser stuff or background 100% Poser :) Sword, the background of Rapa Nui and Mapuche leaders are all graphic backgrounds creations (without photos), less the modern age of the 1st one and the industrial age of the 2nd one that use photos + Poser stuff and the photos don't appear so much. And some of these background were generated by me in less then 1 minute, Bryce for example is too easy to learn how to do a LH in Poser. Of course, if I had entered in a classroom to learn who they work I'd learn much more, but I learned both alone and without too many forces.

I know you didn't go to a classroom civ, that doesn't mean your computer generated backgrounds aren't good. Eventually it would be cool to see what you can do with computer generated backdrops with your remaining old leaders that used photos (Haida comes to mind, seeing as how good your Haida Totem City wondersplash came out).

I think your best leaderheads so far have been:

-Nelson Mendella: looks just like him! Looks smooth and crisp, and very professional, on par with Firaxis(dare I say its better than Shaka..)

-Rapa Nui: See above comments

-Navaho: Love your choice for the backgrounds, and his clothing is great too

What ones do you think are your best Civ?

I know you didn't go to a classroom civ, that doesn't mean your computer generated backgrounds aren't good. Eventually it would be cool to see what you can do with computer generated backdrops with your remaining old leaders that used photos (Haida comes to mind, seeing as how good your Haida Totem City wondersplash came out).

I think your best leaderheads so far have been:

-Nelson Mendella: looks just like him! Looks smooth and crisp, and very professional, on par with Firaxis(dare I say its better than Shaka..)

-Rapa Nui: See above comments

-Navaho: Love your choice for the backgrounds, and his clothing is great too

What ones do you think are your best Civ?

All these LH u told don't use photo in the background and this wonder splash was done by some profissional artist, I just did the "translation to the Civilization linguage" like many people does with other wonders and units, but can't remember the artist name. And believe me, this wonder splash is awesome, was done in Bryce and if I had or would able to produce the prop "Haida Totem" I could do equal one for what I have learned for Bryce until now :)

I love the bear...it goes so much with his personality...I hope to meet them in Ancient Age :) . I think you should redo his face, everything else is great.

I love your work on the Tibetan Leaderhead so much, that I can't help but post again - this time with a reasonable artistic visual aid - to maybe convince you to make a couple revisions:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bushdetail.gif

1) Check out the eyes. This is the most notable area - as you can see in the picture. His eyebrows run along his upper eyelid. Yours are higher when in the center of his forehead. Also, his "bags" under his eyes are more horizontal, while yours are very diagonal.

2) The chin is a little rounded. Not a big deal, but a minor change to square it off wouldn't hurt if you decide to improve the eyes. Also, there should be some lines in his cheeks ("fat" lines).

3) The mouth is a little curved. The top really is close enough, but the bottom central lip could be stretched a little (much like the chin), to 'square' it off some.

4) The hair is actually shaped right, but the coloring makes it look like it's going back, rather than parted to the side. Not the end of the world, but if it can be altered...

Otherwise, the rest looks real good. (If you go back, he does wear blue ties usually though...no biggie).

I love your work on the Tibetan Leaderhead so much, that I can't help but post again...

hay dood if you're not going to engage in meaningless sycophancy than you can just get out of here and make your own leaderhead if you're so good am i rite

hay dood if you're not going to engage in meaningless sycophancy than you can just get out of here and make your own leaderhead if you're so good am i rite
...so you're saying unless I start giving meaningless compliments to gain the favor of CivArmy's opinion in order to better my own stance I should leave? Is that really what you're trying to say? Was it an attempt to be funny? This is about me in no way.

Curious. :confused:

As one artist to another, and quite simply one person to another, I am pointing out areas of improvement. It's called 'constructive criticism.' You know, 'two heads are better than one.' Is that not what civilization is based upon? Helping each other out? Maybe my words aren't elegant or cordial enough, due to word selection on my part, language &/or cultural barriers, or the likes - but I only mean to suggest focus or methods of replicating realism in his leaderheads.

This leaderhead is great, no doubt - but at a glance, I think "American" not "Bush" - thus I posted a picture with drawn in references to show what I noticed don't fit. Correcting those will make it appear more like Bush, and the method used is a good learning tool for CivArmy. Heck - if I thought he was a terrible leaderhead creator, than a little advice wouldn't be enough to make him great, no?

I'd be more than willing to make leaderheads if someone wants to help me through the early learning stages - but like I said, it's not about me. I don't even think I could do better. I'm just offering pointers in hopes of helping to make a 'good' thing 'great.'

It was a joke referring to the fact that he's apparently dismissing anything but completely shining reviews of his work and refusing to admit that it might not be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Oh I don't know if he is that bad.

I do agree that he is too thin skinned about criticism, but I've been kind of critical a few times and he as not responded badly.

The one thing that is strange is that once he completes an image to his satisfaction is not not interested in hearing any more comments on it other then compliments.
If you catch him before he has finished, he will listen and often uses what you say in his final model. But, do not expect him to revise a finished model based on an unfavorable review.

---edit---

But, since we do not pay him for his work. And he is under no obligation to produce the many things he does, I guess he has no obligation to listen to us either. It is his work, which he shares by choice.

He does have discussion threads for all these LHs, including this one, for a fair while before posting the finished thing. So those who don't like the way he's done it do get a good chance to make comments at that stage. And this LH had a *long* period of comments.

:sleep: :sleep: :sleep:
I come in peace and I gonna post in topics to be easist to understand :)

How I do a LH:
- I use mainly a software called Poser 5
- I load a model in this software (M3, M2, Don, V3...) and I make changes in his face to do him looks like a historical person, like President Bush.
- Add some props (background, hat, hair, clothes...) and make his expressions.
- Export the artworks to the format of Civ3, this process could take untill 8 hours (per one era of one LH) and take 99% of computer RAM (whanever the power of PC).

Limits:
- I use Poser since 2004 may/june, there is a lof of stuff to me learn
- It is not in my primary linguage
- I never had been in a classroom where teach how Poser 5 works
- I am not a graphical designer and didn't have experiencie with 3D modeling before may/june 2004
- The models (M3, M2...) have limitations

The props:
- I have three fonts to get the props (hair, hat, clothes...) to add in the LHs: free ones, buy ones and make them myself
- These props necessary must be compatible with Poser (if I don't use the resource of copy/past in PhotoShop that I don't like).
- I don't know (yet) how to produce props myself, but I expect learn some day. What I can do is produce some textures (tatoos, flags, some clothes texture...) or join 5 or 6 props to create a new one.
- The buy ones r the best and many of them r expensive, some of them could cost US$ 50,00. I buy some ones, but I don't have free credit to burn with this :lol:
- The free ones r good I just need find them on Internet
- The props also has limits and my experience create a limit how I can use them

Why I am here:
- Hobby. I love Civ and I'd like to produce extra artworks to a game that I love. I'm in the Civilization Army since 1994 and I expect be there muh more time.
- It is not my job. It could be if Firaxis have called me, but I'm sure I have a long time before arrive in Firaxis (and I don't have the attention to do that)
- I am just here to have fun and share hobby

Feedback of the posters:
- I love them :goodjob: . I always find good tips here.
- I also love the ellogies
- The posters has limits too: maybe they have few experience with Poser and ask for some stuff that is not possible to be done.
- Some posters can not see the difference between work and hobby or think his opinion is the holly thruth. I appreciate the opinion and always ask for people give them, but I don't promess I'll fallow or agree with it.
- If for some reason anyone think he is good enought to use any creation mine, this person has the freedom to do not download them, do not post in my threads, to ignore me, but never post to bash me.
- I repeat my invitations: post requests, post your opinion, post criticism, post what u love and what u suggest to change, post what u think about the LH, but never post to bash me. And always do that in a polite way ;)
- Sometimes some posters think they r helping, but they r not doing that
- One important tip: post the suggestions of changes when the LH is under construction, it is easily to me do the alterations when they were in this stage, a.e., I just can use the tips for Bush LH when I do a new version.
- One last tip: take the polemics out of my threads, a.e., if u hate the leader don't express your feelings in the creation forums, u have the "off-topic" forum to do that. I remember none of my LH is propaganda to any leader.

Conclusion: I invite people to continue posting in my thread and invite all that ones that don't post to do that too if they wish, express your opinion, make a request, I'll not be offend, I just ask to post in a polite way :) Words like "crap", "trash", "horrible" could be out ;)

I've copied the .flc files from USA02.zip into C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Conquests\Conquests\USA\Art\Flics, but when I try to select "America" in the Player Setup window, I get the following error message:

Load Error
FILE NOT FOUND
"Art\Flics\Bush_anc.flc"
The game will now exit.

What am I doing wrong?

The flics need to be in ..Civilization III\Conquests\Scenarios\USA\Art\Flics

Plus, you need to put the pcx files in the appropriate places in the USA\Art folder, as well (and the Diplomacy file in the USA\Text folder too if you want to use that).

Also, you need to make sure that the Editor knows to look in the folder USA - this is in the Scenario Properties menu. Just type in the name of the folder in the requisite place.

Thanks for helping Plotinus! :goodjob:
I'm posting the process step by step:
- Unzipp all the files that you copy in Internet. If you do the right process, the directory "USA" will be created in your hard disk, with all the files that you need.
- Go to "Civ 3 Conquests" game directory.
- Go to directory called Conquests, in "Civ 3 Conquests" directory.
- Copy into this the "USA" directory that you downloaded in Internet. Do not change its name.
- In this "USA" directory you find the "Text" direcory, there, the files "Civilopedia - Conquests.txt", "PediaIcons - Conquests.txt" and "diplomacy - Conquests.txt". Rename them to "Civilopedia.txt", "PediaIcons.txt" and "diplomacy.txt".
- In this "USA" directory you also find "Arts", there you find "Units". Rename the file "units_32 - conquests.pcx" to "units_32.pcx".
- In this "USA" directory you also find "Arts", there you find "city screen". Rename the file "buildings-large - conquests.pcx" to "buildings-large.pcx" and "buildings-small - conquests.pcx" to "buildings-small.pcx"
- Copy the file "USA - conquest.biq" to "Conquests" directory.
- Start the game and load "USA - conquests.biq".

- Copy the file "USA - conquest.biq" to "Conquests" directory.OK, thanks, that's where the error was. The instructions in the USA - how to install.txt file that comes with the scenario read:

- Copy the file "USA - conquest.biq" to "Scenarios" or "Conquests" directory.

However, if you copy the "USA - conquest.biq" file to the "Scenarios" directory, and you've dutifully followed all the other instructions that require you to copy the other files to the "Conquests" directory, the scenario won't work.

I think there may be a problem with the diplomacy.txt file.

I just tried out the scenario and met the Americans. Upon first meeting me, Bush said to me: "Bush of the glorious American civilization greets you. He is vaguely aware"

While I thought that was ironically appropriate, I also thought it was probably an error because of the lack of a period at the end of the sentence, so I checked out the diplomacy.txt file and found that the quote was supposed to be: "$AI0 of the glorious $CIVADJ2 civilization greets you. He is vaguely aware of your struggling people and will grant them peace" Oddly enough, there's no period at the end of that sentence either, but at least it makes more sense. The problem is apparently being caused by line breaks where they should not be.

Another problem is that the wrong quote is apparently being selected. Looking further down in the file, I saw a different quote that was clearly intended for Bush, which was: "I, President $AI0 of the great country of $CIVNAME1, solemnly pledge to build a single nation of justice and opportunity. I know this is in our reach because we are guided by a power larger than ourselves who creates us equal in His image. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger." However, that's not the quote that I saw when I first met Bush.

Damnable Diplomacy files never seem to work right! However, that part ought to have worked as I did test it (and a check now reveals that it's working OK). There are no weird line breaks in my version of the file, which is the original.

If you leave the Americans in the default position in the Editor - the eighth in the list - then they should automatically use the new text. There's a box in the Editor where you can specify which diplomacy strings to use, so you could try entering the right number in there and see if that helps. But it since it works with mine the only things I can think of are that you're not using Conquests 1.22 (though I don't know if that should matter) or that the download didn't work correctly in some way. Or possibly Civ Army did something weird to the file in between me giving it to him and him posting it here! I've re-attached it to this post (with that full stop put back in) so you might try downloading it again here and seeing if that makes a difference.

But it since it works with mine the only things I can think of are that you're not using Conquests 1.22 (though I don't know if that should matter) or that the download didn't work correctly in some way. Or possibly Civ Army did something weird to the file in between me giving it to him and him posting it here! I've re-attached it to this post (with that full stop put back in) so you might try downloading it again here and seeing if that makes a difference.I'm using Conquests 1.22, so that's not the problem.

I downloaded the new file and it does not appear to have line breaks, which is good, but I noticed another potential issue: there are a number of quotations that use backward quotes ( “ ) instead of the standard double quotes ( " ). I assume they are the result of a cut and paste from a sophisticated word processor, such as Word, that automatically replaces straight quotes with "smart quotes." These backward quotes do not appear in the original Firaxis version of diplomacy.txt or in CivArmy's version of the modified file.

AbuHab, it is cool the problem was solve :)
BTW, Plotinus did the diplomacy.txt, he can help u better then me in this case ;)

good game!

@Plotinus: I'm exporing the LH artworks of Tibet, Haiti and Manchu, it takes 99% of the PC RAM, for this reason I can't play to check that problem witht the Kanem-Bornu leader yet. When I finish the exportation process (that takes a long time :( ) I'll check this for u ;)

Does he mix up words like the real W. Bush? lol :lol:

Not bad though...:D

- TP

1,000 post!!!! [party] :clap: :hatsoff: :band: :banana:

Does he mix up words like the real W. Bush? lol :lol:Let's just say CivArmy and Plotinus have done an excellent job of making the pie higher. ;)

[AbuHab] Actually, the "sophisticated" quote marks are there in the original. They are used in quite a few parts of the Diplomacy file for the C3C civs. Evidently whoever added the text for these civs used a *real* word processor and not just Notepad! I did it using Notepad so all my quote marks are the plain kind. It's odd if they are not in your original version of the text file - maybe there's some bizarre international difference or something - but it certainly shouldn't affect how it works.

Hope you like it - I don't think there's anything in there as funny as "He is vaguely aware" though!

Hope you like it - I don't think there's anything in there as funny as "He is vaguely aware" though!You are too modest. The demands for tribute alone are worth the price of admission.

Amusing thread.

I think Sourboy is being fair in his comments. He merely points out that improvements could be made.
But that said, CivArmy employed a good effort in his leaderhead mod.

I would have made the head in an actual 3D package, and not in the rather restrictive poser app.

.....

I like the leaderhead for the most part. I'll be using it in my personal mod.

:thanx: very much for this leader I find him quite realistic... Didn't see him before and dowloaded him now ..

I would have made the head in an actual 3D package, and not in the rather restrictive poser app.

.....


Curt, do u know where I can get this software "3D package" or a shareware version or more information about it? :thanx:


@tjedge1, @frenchman, thanks for have enjoyed and for have played ;) :)

my first thought was probably "oh, c'mon, I just started to like America as a civ..." well nice tho, just that I'm not a Bush-fan but nice tho. Shall we set America's agressive level to highest now? ;) :lol:

hehe I just have to post this... sorry !

Bushflash for more info ! (http://www.bushflash.com)

:mischief:

Maybe the best photo ever taken of busher.. is the one where hes supposedly :mischief: watching through some binocurlars in iraq.. howerver the cover is on the binocurlars.. phuahahaa :mischief:

:mischief:

Ha Ha! Thats what he deserves for ignoring your Country! In all of his speeches he never mentions the South Korean Combat troops on the ground, but he does talk about thoes Japanese. That must get your Han all worked up. Oh well... lets go have some Kim Chee!

my first thought was probably "oh, c'mon, I just started to like America as a civ..." well nice tho, just that I'm not a Bush-fan but nice tho. Shall we set America's agressive level to highest now? ;) :lol:

Lol...........funny thing is....I'm beginning to argee with that assessment...but not entirely.

Ha Ha! Thats what he deserves for ignoring your Country! In all of his speeches he never mentions the South Korean Combat troops on the ground, but he does talk about thoes Japanese. That must get your Han all worked up. Oh well... lets go have some Kim Chee!

opps sorry mate.. im not korean.. im a norwegian living in korea... one of those diplos..stealing world maps... :crazyeye:

well what can i say i think south korea is well prepared to protect themselvesagainst any conventional warfare.. any non conventional warfare would in 2005 create ww3 so i think most non al quaida fans wouldnt want that .. thinking of the russian doomsday missiles being upgraded wit hnewstealth tech. ..

Oh... Well.. have some Kim Chee anyway! Damn that stuff is good.

Lol...........funny thing is....I'm beginning to argee with that assessment...but not entirely.
I think I'm in the same boat here.

Its good people are makin leaderheads but why of all people would u make this Nazi. Is there anybody out there that hates this neo-Nazi more than I.

If there is anything more pointless then a name calling contest involving those not here to defend themselves, I don't know.
Remember this, most americans support Bush.
Comparing someone that is bringing democracy to the world, while pursueing evil doers to a nazi is as far from the truth as anything I can imagine. It shows complete and utter ignorance of both history and current events at such a profound level.

George W. Bush is not evil. The USA was attacked. Retaliation is not aggression. Preventing those bent on evil is not evil, it is self defense. You may or may not like all his policies or his personality, but this is not the same thing as bad leadership.
Under GW Bush, his political party grew in power. Clinton had the opposite effect on his party. I think most would agree that Clinton had a charisma that GWB lacks, so for the population to support GWB more shows that even though he is not as smooth a polititian, his decisions are held by those who elect him as the proper ones.

I find that most who are opposed to Bush are either unable or unwilling to even articulate why. But ask them how they feel about christians and they will often say the same things. I find this very interesting. Ronald Reagan and GW Bush are the two modern presidents that were most open and honest about their faith. And the same nut jobs said the same things about both. The more humanist (a liberal form of faith masquerading as something else) the more adament this foolish and largely incomprehensible blather becomes.
Not everyone who didn't like Bush was an atheist (or wannabe), as I know of at least one christian that did not like him, but again could not explain why without making stuff up. (My sister, a college professor).

Don't hijack this thread more with this sort of drival. This is a fine leaderhead from one of the most generous and prolific members of this forum.

GWB will be judged kindly by history. Perhaps not like FDR or Ron Reagan, but he will be counted as one of the USA's most important presidents. He is certainly a reasonable choice as a LH for the USA. Don't like it? Don't use it.

And for the record, I would have voted for him if I could have. But as a Norwegian citizen I could not. I am a christian, but that is not why I would have voted for him. The worst president the USA has had in the last 50 years was a honest and devout christan (Jimmy Carter).

Can you please all at least try and make this thread about this LH, not politics?

Daniel, I still like this (and your other LH's) though I do wish you would experiment with larger eyes.

Uh oh, the thread's turned political again... for the record, and speaking as a theologian, I don't believe that there's much authentically Christian about whatever faith George W Bush may hold. Indeed my job requires me to listen to an awful lot of his speeches and they are jam-packed with highly unchristian sentiments. It is also worth pointing out that almost all his policies and views are vehemently opposed by the Vatican and most non-American (ie, most non-fundamentalist Protestant) Christians alike. I don't agree that he's a good president and I think he will be judged very negatively by history in most respects, primarily the fact that he alienated most of the world by illegally attacking a country that had not attacked him and was no threat to him. I can assure you that if you were in Britain you would find people quite able to articulate why they hate Bush, and it would be the vast majority of the population, too.

However, I *do* agree that he is an important president and therefore it is perfectly reasonable to have him as a LH, quite apart from the fact that he's the president right at the moment. Importance and worth are not the same thing.

I'd rebuttal you, but I can't see where anything you said is of any merit or has anything to do with this leaderhead.

Shall we set America's agressive level to highest now? ;) :lol:

Funny you say that. I already did so in my personal mod.
:D

Come on Bjorn, Plotinus may hold different views than you or I, but please don't be mean to him, he's actually one of the few true liberals on this board, in that he is willing to debate without throwing mud or insulting people.

What would Jesus do? :goodjob:

Thank you, SoG - I'm one of the few people on the board who take "true liberal" as a compliment!

I'd point out, if it weren't obvious, that what I said was intended not as commentary on the LH but as a response to what Bjorn posted, which itself didn't have much to do with the LH either. This is what happens when you respond to troll posts such as the initial one by Roman Legion, who shouldn't have made such a post irrespective of the merits or demerits of Bush.

Mud slinging doesn't help anyone, it ruins everyone involved. Thats one of the reasons I don't go down to Off-Topic anymore...

I have a suggestion, let's post the comments about Bush in the Off-Topic Forum :) ;) , if we continue the debat about Bush in the Creation Forum the Moderator could close this thread (and with a good reason) like they did in some similar threats about Bush in the past. And remember fellows, the LH is not propaganda or a trolling against Bush, it is just a LH that people can use in mods of your days or for people who is fan of GWB :)
@Bjorn, the small and close eyes of Bush r one of his most important characteristic in his face :D I don't think it is a good idea I do a larger eyes in a possible future version of this same LH.

Politics....seems to bring out the uglier side of people

Hey, we're into the final 24 hours of a general election campaign here in the UK. It's not pretty, and I don't just mean pictures of Michael Howard!

Come on Bjorn, Plotinus may hold different views than you or I, but please don't be mean to him, he's actually one of the few true liberals on this board, in that he is willing to debate without throwing mud or insulting people.

What would Jesus do? :goodjob:

I'm not slinging MUD nor name calling. I am not a theologian who begins by attacking some elses faith as a reasonable friendly position to take.
I debate with my sister all the time. She can't stand bush, but she has the grace to not question others beliefs. She is a christian herself, but a far left liberal. It would make it easier to vilify Bush, but she manages to resist.

As for what would Jesus do... I seem to recall a few conversations he had with the theolgians during his time on earth.

I'm not of the position that Plotinus is a bad guy. I've enjoyed his posts and positions in the past and expect to continue enjoying them provided they are on the subject at hand.

I think everything he said was a giant crock. I could debate him to show the value of those positions in a ordered discourse. But this is not the forum for that. I said as much when I pointed out that I didn't (and still do not)see that this has anything to do with a LH Daniel was so kind to make us.

@Bjorn, the small and close eyes of Bush r one of his most important characteristic in his face :D I don't think it is a good idea I do a larger eyes in a possible future version of this same LH.
Actually I made a image of bushes head the same size as your LH and measured a few things.
http://img23.echo.cx/img23/2323/bush25ml.jpg
In these two images, the heads are exactly the same height.
The eyes in your model are considerably smaller.
40% shorter and 29% narrower.
Also the face is a bit (7%) too narrow.
Other details like the position of the mouth, nose and ears are 100% accurate.

But even though these eyes are smaller then Bushs, they aren't so far off as to make this a bad effort. It is a good one.

Bjornlo, this head has been out for months, and the preview thread was open for months before that. Nitpicking now means nothing. I doubt civarmy will 'resauturate' this leaderhead at all, and if he does it will be months away. So stop. Complaining about leaderheads AFTER they're made is one of the RUDEST things you can do.

@RomanLegion

Okay okay okay, I, a very vocal and self proclaimed Angry Liberal and fierce democrat, am going to do something I would never EVER do otherwise: Defend George W. Bush.

He may have done things you and I might not agree with, such as the invasion of Iraq, the spending of all of the Social Security reserves, and complete reversal of policy on North Korea, as well as support such issues as the outlawing of Gay Marriage and the banning of stem cell research, President George W. Bush is NOT, by any means a Nazi (neo or otherwise). His assualt on Iraq, while tacticaly resembling the German Bliztkrieg, is totally different philosphicly. Hitler's goal was conquest, to militarily bring foriegn lands and people under his direct control. The goal of Operation Iraqi Freedom, as its name suggests, was to Liberate the people of Iraq and topple Saddam Hussien's totalitarian regiem. America is trying to set up a Free and Fair Democratic goverment in Iraq which will run the country. Iraq is by no means a colony of the United States. Sure, American troops will likely remain in Iraq for decades to come, but that is mearly for Iraq's strategic value: located in the center of the Middle East American troops in Iraq can respond to threats anywhere in that area. We will not and do not control the goverment: ppower was passed to the Iraq people last June.Also, thought Bush my be strongly Christian and presuing a Christian agenda, he is not persecuting anyone for their race, religion, political ideology, or sexuality. While Hitler rounded up all of the Jews, Blacks, Socialits, and Homosexuals he could find and had them all Murdered, Bush has done and will not do no such thing.
Bush is not a Nazi. If you EVER say anything like that again I shall PERSONALLY report you to the Moderators and request that you be PERMANTLY banned.

Gosh, do I feel Bi-Partisan. The Republican party should give me some candy for that.

Bjornlo, this head has been out for months, and the preview thread was open for months before that. Nitpicking now means nothing. I doubt civarmy will 'resauturate' this leaderhead at all, and if he does it will be months away. So stop. Complaining about leaderheads AFTER they're made is one of the RUDEST things you can do.

I know it has been out for months. I was mostly trying to get this conversation back on topic. I do not expect Civ's Army to revise this leaderhead. My only hope was that he be willing to experiment on some future project. And talking about the LH, even weeks after its release certainly seems more topical to me then political discussions on a non-political forum.
I hardly consider on topic conversation in a non-confrontational way to be rude. If you can remember back far enough to the preview threads of his last few leaderheads, I had the same suggestion there. I think what I did was a service to Civ's Army. I took the time to find a same pose, reduced it to the same size and gave constructive suggestions which he may or may not choose to follow. He knows my opinion on his eyes, and I've never heard him complain about how I deliver my comments. Since unlike most fantasy units, this is a fellow where I could find a current image I gave what help I could.
Perhaps rather then being so concerned about what others do, you should just work on the same?

Civ's Army, if GF is right and I am wrong, please accept my applogy. I was only trying to be helpful and get this far-off-track conversation back on topic, which was your Bush LH.

Bjlorno: I'm not going to argue with you. You did do good work. But Civarmy is done with this head.

Well, I think Bjorn is just trying help and he shows his point with the picture, maybe I could change the eyes sizes next time (an din future projects) or the contraction of his cheek and forehead that could turn the eyes more visible (bigger) :) ;) But like GF said, the LH was already done, tips to correct it r not too usefull now like they would be in the time the LH was under construction. But the final result I think is good, both GF and Bjorn r trying to help :goodjob:
GF, I think when Roman Legion said "Bush is a Nazist" he didn't mean he fallows the Nazism, but he would be a bad person, like Hitler was. But just Roman Legion can explain what he would like to say. In Brazil we use call a people Nazist when he is bad and not necessary fallow the Nazism.

Since it became a little political thread and the moderator look like don't see problem with that, I'd like to express about the opinion about Iraq's Case, well, whaneter Iraq is now a democracy or dictadorship, it is now zone of influence of USA, I mean, I rich country with oil that bellows now to the American zone of influence and how it turned a part of the American zone of influence is the problem of this Iraq's Case. In the time of Saddam after Gulf War I Iraq didn't bellow of this zone of influence, the opose of the time before this same Gulf War I. I think if Saddan was the best president ever of a true democracy and tread his people with eternal love, but had continued with his hostile politics against America, Iraq would be invaded at the same way. My point is, Bush didn't go there to bringht freedom, democracy or anything else, he had another objetic and this democracy we see now in Iraq is just one of the results of this new Iraq, but if Bush would need destroy this democracy to get his main objective he would do that. For end, I think it is good Saddan get out the power, I expect he pays for what he did and it is good Iraq people has them freedom, but what price they paied (r paying right now) for that? And tranpass what Democracy represents to install a democracy is good?
Please, with some of the moderators see any problem with this discussion in this area of the Forums, please, post a advise and we can stop if necessary ;)

no no make his head smaller ..

Im not going to say anything bad about hisartwork..anyhow casue I havent got the slightest clue on how to make a LH.. ^^
so for me how to make LH is magic...

no no make his head smaller ..

Im not going to say anything bad about hisartwork..anyhow casue I havent got the slightest clue on how to make a LH.. ^^
so for me how to make LH is magic...

If u get the software called Poser u can also do magics :) http://www.curiouslabs.com/article/articleview/1050/1/450?sbss=450/ is the page for download the demo.

Well, I think Bjorn is just trying help and he shows his point with the picture, maybe I could change the eyes sizes next time (an din future projects) or the contraction of his cheek and forehead that could turn the eyes more visible (bigger) :) ;) But like GF said, the LH was already done, tips to correct it r not too usefull now like they would be in the time the LH was under construction. But the final result I think is good, both GF and Bjorn r trying to help :goodjob:
GF, I think when Roman Legion said "Bush is a Nazist" he didn't mean he fallows the Nazism, but he would be a bad person, like Hitler was. But just Roman Legion can explain what he would like to say. In Brazil we use call a people Nazist when he is bad and not necessary fallow the Nazism.

Since it became a little political thread and the moderator look like don't see problem with that, I'd like to express about the opinion about Iraq's Case, well, whaneter Iraq is now a democracy or dictadorship, it is now zone of influence of USA, I mean, I rich country with oil that bellows now to the American zone of influence and how it turned a part of the American zone of influence is the problem of this Iraq's Case. In the time of Saddam after Gulf War I Iraq didn't bellow of this zone of influence, the opose of the time before this same Gulf War I. I think if Saddan was the best president ever of a true democracy and tread his people with eternal love, but had continued with his hostile politics against America, Iraq would be invaded at the same way. My point is, Bush didn't go there to bringht freedom, democracy or anything else, he had another objetic and this democracy we see now in Iraq is just one of the results of this new Iraq, but if Bush would need destroy this democracy to get his main objective he would do that. For end, I think it is good Saddan get out the power, I expect he pays for what he did and it is good Iraq people has them freedom, but what price they paied (r paying right now) for that? And tranpass what Democracy represents to install a democracy is good?
Please, with some of the moderators see any problem with this discussion in this area of the Forums, please, post a advise and we can stop if necessary ;)

That has certainly been the policy of past officials in the US government(A guy by the name of Henry Kissinger for example, I have heard was personally responsible for many bad things in Latin America).

I don't think Bush was the mastermind of the Iraq war though. If you look back, it was the CIA who told Bush there were WMDs in Iraq, but the CIA got their information from British intelligence agents..(I am not pointing the finger at Blair either btw). I think there may be more to Iraq than meets the eye though...and I doubt Democracy is the true motive. Maybe not even profit..

Hey, hey, don't blame us!

For what it's worth I think Civ Army's analysis of Bush and Iraq is spot on and I've rarely seen it put so well, even in his slightly idiosyncratic English (infinitely better than my Portuguese, though, which is non-existant).

I wasn't blaming you Brits either....I have no reason to believe the "Buck" stops with the British intelligence operatives. Neither am I saying that Bush isn't guilty of something bad, just that I don't think he is the one pulling the strings..

If memory serves me well, I believe I heard on the news several times, that almost every major world power's intelligence claimed there were WMD's in Iraq. That includes countries who sat out, like France, Germany and Russia. That French guy inspector changed his tune after the war began and pulled the hindsight is 20/20. He claimed there wasn't any after saying he needed more time to look for them. If there wasn't any, then why did he need more time? Not sure if he was playing a political game, but we all know you can't trust any politician from any country. If you do, then you haven't really gotten to know any and you believe their speeches of twisted truths and talking in circles. ;) :crazyeye:

Yeah...that is actually quite strange...I wonder if there was something going on internationally behind the scenes we don't know about..

:lol:

I LOVE IT!

:lol:

I LOVE IT!

WAIT A MINUTE!
AREN'T U THE GUY WHO DID THESE COOL LEADERHEADS OF ABYSSINIA AND SCOTLAND?
Sween, I am your fan :) :goodjob: Sad that u stoped to do these awesome LHs :(

Sween32! A past legend returns!

WAIT A MINUTE!
AREN'T U THE GUY WHO DID THESE COOL LEADERHEADS OF ABYSSINIA AND SCOTLAND?
Sween, I am your fan :) :goodjob: Sad that u stoped to do these awesome LHs :(
Yeah, I'm the guy. I checked out your work last night on GIDustins site. Great stuff. Some of them I was jealous of. ;)

Yeah, I'm the guy. I checked out your work last night on GIDustins site. Great stuff. Some of them I was jealous of. ;)

Thanks for enjoyed! :) But in that site there is my old stuff, my first ones, if u have spare time check my home page out in www.geocities.com/Civ_Army_1994 , there u find the currently versions and the full collection ;)
BTW, I expect u came back to do LHs and units for Civ3, your stuff were (are) a great inspiration to me start make stuff :goodjob:

Hey, great work on the LH, The cowboy for the industrial age cracks me up. Great touch of humor- I'm a little torn on what I think of the back ground in the Modern age, but all in all great job!

I'm glad you made this LH, and since you did, might as well add these towns/cities to the American city list:

Tombstone: Where the OK Corral gunfight between the Clanton/McLowery gang and the Earp Brothers & Doc Holliday occurred, also where Boot Hill cemetary is located.

Dodge City: one of the most lawless towns in Kansass, and where Wild Bill Hicock was killed. It was also where Wyatt Earp, Virgil Earp, Morgan Earp and Doc Holliday first made names for themselves by taking out all the criminals.

Wild Bill was killed in Deadwood N. Dakota.

LOL it george bush(i dont even capitalize his name). I hate bush but this is funny.:lol:

The Western Style Bush might look better as a White Wigged Washington fellow.