I'm trying to make the jump to Demigod (I win all the time on Emperor and have won twice on DG). This is my first SG.

I want to play with a medium-strength civ on a standardish map (medium size, age, and climate). Continents or pangea okay.

Interesting choice of acronym there. I'll follow, but I can't join at this point.

I think Vanilla Demigod would be a great name for a band. VD less so. :lol:

AFAIK there is no DemiGod level in vanilla ...

I meant a "vanilla" start as in 70% land, moderately wet, medium temp, average world age, no special victory conditions or restrictions.

I'd like to give it a try. Anyone elase?

Nice to have you Gato. Who wants to be #3?

I am doubtful I can make the time committment to play this SG (because of my work I am almost exclusively a weekend player, and already in one SG). But I will DEFINITELY lurk. I'm only adequate on Emperor so far, but refuse to let myself plateau there!! Hope you guys get some high-level players willing to give detailed critique.

I'd like to sign up for this one. I have 2 SP wins and 1 SG win on Demigod. Continents are my favorite. Everything normal and any civ will be fine with me.

I'll sign up.

:bump: Just kick-starting this as floydmcw hasn't posted anything.

Roster
floydmcw
Gato Loco
Ginger_Ale
TimBentley
Open

Any choices on the civ? Perhaps something not overpowered or underpowered like the Romans, Koreans, Germans (haven't seen them in a SG lately). I'd go for the Germans -> if we can get some land and cheap libraries up quickly, we could end up self-researching quite well.

We can choose the civ and then we'll roll some starts, ok?

The Germans would be fine. I'll be gone until Sunday, so stick me at the end of the roster if we get started while I'm gone.

I'd vote for Rome, since I've never gotten around to playing them. Plus I'm dying to be on the right side of those legions for a change.

I was waiting for email notification that this thread had been updated. Glad I decided to post a message.

I vote for Rome over Germany, but I don't have a real strong preference. Ginger, what do you prefer?

Will need to upgrade my Conquests version -- think I'm still running 1.15. Is 1.22 still the latest version?

v1.22 is the latest version, yes. I don't mind Rome either, I haven't played them in a while. Anybody want to generate some starts with screenshots so we can decide on one, or should we just go with the first start? I'm for the first start, as long as it's not desert/tundra.

I will upgrade to 1.22 tonight and roll up three starts. If someone wants to do it sooner, feel free.

Let's talk early game strategy while we get ready to go.

1. Granary or Settler?

I usually build a granary first (assuming I can get Pottery), but have been told that is not best on higher levels. I am now inclined to start a settler first. What do you think?

2. Goody Huts?

We may want to ignore them so as not to stress our tiny forces. If I get the first 20 turns, as the roster implies, I will build 2 or 3 warriors, then go for settler or granary (see #1). Am I too cautious?

3. Research?

I think we should research neglected techs -- Wheel, HBR, Lit -- rather than minimum science and trying to buy them.

Hi, lurker here....setting too much preliminary strategy without seeing your start position sounds like it could be a bad idea. Settler vs Granary very much depends on your terrain -- there's a discussion by SirPleb somewhere I think giving details, but essentially if your 2nd settler will have a high-growth site to settle, it's usually good to go settler then granary, otherwise it's often granary first. Avoiding huts when you aren't expansionist on Demi certainly seems a reasonable call. Research -- your strategy could be influenced by who your opponents are, what they will start with, how many are scientific.

1. I like a couple warriors (2 or 3, depending on our land: if it's a peninsula with not too much land, 2 will suffice), and then a settler. Quick 2nd cities really help. It can produce the workers and warriors for MP we need. Then we can build a granary either after the settler or even more units, depending on if we need them or not. Of course, if we start with lots of food around us, a granary could help early.

2. I leave goody huts alone, unless I'm far from my cities or near another civilization's units so they can kill the barbarians. (2 or 3 warriors and then a settler is good).

3. Research plan sounds good. Currency, CoL and Literature are three good techs that the AI doesn't value a whole lot.

peacemonger is right though, thanks for chiming in. It depends on the start. I'll get 3 starts up if you don't get any floydmcw within a couple hours.

Everything normal, 70% continents, Normal/Temperate/4 billions years old, Standard Sized map, Sedentary Barbarians.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_starta.JPG

Blue arrow = floodplain wheat. Red arrow = a luxury, possibly furs or dyes.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_startb.JPG

Not a bad start. 2 BGs (we are on one) and a game.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_startc.JPG

I don't like this one due to no fresh water.

My preferred order: 2, 1, 3.

I'll upload the save of the one we choose for the starter to start off when we decide on a start.

#1 has lots of flood plains, a wheat, and a lux. It does lack hills but the forest with the lux will provide some shields.

I've had bad luck lately with flood plain cities and disease though.

#2 is nice because the sea has our back. We're in a corner whereas #1 might be in the middle of several civs.

I agree #3 is less desirable.

I've been burned with no-lux starts recently, so my first instinct is to go with #1 so more warriors can go out scouting rather than staying at home keeping order. Since we're playing Conquests, however, I'll have to vote for #2 so we can build curraghs as early as possible. Chopping the game-forest for a granary will also be another bonus for that start.

As for strategy, I don't really have much to say until we've scouted a bit. I usually go for a few warriors/curraghs (2 MP at home, 2 scouts) then build a granary. I'm a strong believer in the granary first (and, by extension, pottery first) build unless I'm really cramped and need to grab the best land ASAP. After the first 10 turns we can have a more detailed discussion with maps in hand.

Hi Gato,

Good points. I'm cool with #2. Ginger, upload the SAV when ready and I'll start.

I agree on start #2,and add me to roster

Hi plarq. Here is the save floydmcw (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_4000BCb.SAV).

Also remember TimBentley is away until Sunday.

I'm on my way to work and won't be able to play till I get home -- and I live on the west coast (of America) so that may be late for some of you.

If someone wants to go ahead of me I have no objection.

The current roster is:

floydmcw
Gato Loco
Ginger_Ale
plarq
TimBentley

Please post an updated roster if you take a move.

I've started -- will be with you shortly.

I'm ashamed to come back to you guys with this -- not that I could really do much better. Our sum total at the end of 20 turns is no luxes, no cows, no wheat, no techs, and one settler who has barely left the capital.

But we do have a veteran spearman.

Herein lies the tale:

Loading the save ...

We're German? Thought we were going to be Roman. Okay, no big deal.

4000 BC: Settler lands on a BG? That's not good. He moves southeast into the forest.

3950: Found Berlin and start a warrior. Warrior in 4.

This start is ... not so good. No bonus resources of any kind in the second ring of squares (or in the water, for that matter). (Well, there's tobacco, which is not so useful.) We'll need to chop the forest to generate excess food.

The forest chops in 4, when the warrior pops, so we may as well start a spear. I've never had a start like this.

The Wheel in 35.

3900: Is it Octoberfest yet?

3850: Has anyone built a Spaceship part yet? No, they have not.

3800: Okay, I've run out of clever things to say.

3750: The forest chops, the spear pops, and Berlin starts a warrior in 4. The grass/game square now produces 3 food and the warrior starts to irrigate it to produce 4 food.

The spear heads north.

3700: The spear reaches unexplored territory and fails to see anything worthwhile.

3650: The spear heads north and reaches water. We're on a little peninsula.

3600: Spear reaches sugar on plains.

3550: The game is watered and Berlin expands. Lux to 20.

The spear climbs the mountain and sees ... another flood plain and some sugar.

3500: Spear moves next to another mountain.

3450: Berlin expands. Spear climbs the mountain, which reveals more flood plains and desert. And a goody hut.

3400: Berlin warrior -> settler. The warrior heads north. The worker is done roading the game farm.

The spear advances on the goody hut and ... huh? Warriors? I thought this setup was "Sedentary Barbarians." I wasn't sure what that meant so I looked it up in the Conquests manual and it said that huts don't turn into barbs. What gives?

3350: A barb attacks, loses, and the spear promotes.

Worker mines a BG. Warrior heads east.

3300: Berlin grows to 3. Lux to 30.

Spear moves onto the flood plain and spies water. Warrior heads east and sees just a new grassland.

3250: Spear heads north and sees an inlet and desert. Warrior doesn't see much.

3200: Still nothing of note.

3150: The northeast is horribly barren, just mountains and desert.

3100: Not much.

3050: Worker gets done mining the BG.

Meet the Maya off in the north. They are up Masonry, Pottery, and Ceremonial Burial. They have two workers for sale, not that we have anything to offer them.

3000: Berlin pops a settler. (Yay, I MM'd it right.) He moves one square north, which will give the next player most flexibility. I suggest one of the two river plains squares in the "neck" of our little peninsula.

I think Berlin will grow in 10 turns. A warrior for MP duty may be best; the
settler would then complete at or shortly after growth to 4. Lux to 10.

The warrior to the south appears to have reached the sea.

Here's a screenshot:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_3000.JPG

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_3000.SAV)

Forgot to mention, there are still two barbs in the desert somewhere.

I would put the settler SW of the mountain, to get on the coast, river, and some good terrain.

I agree with every move you made except for the spear. We can build two warriors for 1 spear, so we could have 1 MP and 1 exploring, instead of 1 exploring. Otherwise, it's fine. :)

OK, I just DL'ed the save, and I'll be able to play some time this evening. At first glance, our priorities seem to be:

-Get 2 MP for Berlin
-Get Pottery from the Maya somehow and build a granary. I was skeptical of your chioce not to research it, but seeing that we're neighbors with somebody who has it, it's actually a good idea, provided we invent round rolling things before they do.
-Slap two guards on the choke point mountains, then found a city to preserve the border there. This is huge given the AI rate of expansion.
-Keep sending out settlers when we have the food.
-Get alphapbet and build some curraghs. There may be an island right off our coast.

Yes, the lack of luxuries looks grim. But I'm not so disappointed about the desert. That flood plain plus hills will eventually mean some productive cities if we get there before the Maya. And with any luck it'll give us saltpeter one day.

I agree with every move you made except for the spear. We can build two warriors for 1 spear

But I couldn't because of the timing. Berlin was producing 3 shields per turn, so ...

3 - 6 - 9 - 12
chop - chop - chop - chop

were in lockstep

Berlin couldn't produce a warrior faster. It could produce a warrior slower, but then those 10 forest shields would just be used for the warrior's last shield or two. I could delay the chop by a turn but that means less food, and food seems to be our bottleneck.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't agree that Alphabet should be a priority (after Pottery). One island off our coast is not likely to be a big deal. There's plenty of space to fill up on the mainland.

We should research something the AI won't have, like HBR, and try to trade it.

Turnlog
Start – 3000 BC – No changes needed. Berlin was left in good condition and I agree 100% with the warrior build. I did take the liberty of renaming our units alphabetically to help keep track of them in turnlogs. Our warrior is War Alpha. Our worker is worker A. Our spearman is renamed Tank Killer because we aren’t likely to have enough spears to make an alphabetical list necessary and because he could theoretically be upgraded to a mech inf one day and actually kill a tank. Anybody who doesn’t like the names is free to change them to something more personal, just be sure to say that you’ve done it.

IBT – Mayan warriors move southwest toward the choke point. There’s no way to block them in time, so Smoke Jaguar will get to explore our lands.

2950 BC – Tank Killer moves north along the mountain range. War Alpha moves north too, planning to scout the dark area around the coast before looking for those barbs. Settler goes north.

2900 BC – Worker A finishes his road and moves south. Settler goes east. War Alpha – north, TK north, sees another Mayan warrior but no settler yet.

2850 BC – Worker A mines the second BG. We’ll have lots of building to do in the near future with the MP and Granary, so I decide to get the mine first. War Alpha – east, TK – NE, Settler NE.

2800 BC – Berlin warrior (War Beta) -> warrior. Settler founds Leipzig on the recommended costal river spot. I like this spot because of the sugar. War Alpha – north, finds a wheat plain along the coast. War Beta fortifies because Berlin is going to grow and needs MP, TK – east, Leipzig is building a warrior as its first build.

2750 BC – Set Sci to 80% to avoid wastage (4 turns left). Maya still haven’t researched the Wheel (fingers crossed). TK – east, War Alpha north

IBT – A barb warrior pops out of the desert near Leipzig. There isn’t anything I can do to keep him from ransacking it as War Beta is too far to reach in time. At least there isn’t much gold to carry away.

2710 BC – Berlin warrior (War Gamma) -> Settler (either on its own merits or as a prebuild for a granary), War Alpha – NW, War Gamma NW,NW (just to see what the coast looks like. I plan to return him to Berlin as MP), TK – north, sees Mayan borders in the distance farther north. At this point I decide to change TK’s course. It would be nice to spy on Mayan lands, but I’m really looking for other neighbors for tech brokering, so I decide to investigate to the east to see if anyone’s there.

IBT – The barb warrior declines to sack Leipzig and instead fortifies in place. A mayan warrior appears behind him.

2670 BC – War Alpha – west, War Gamma – NW, TK – south.

IBT – Mayan warrior kills barb warrior. The AI isn’t smart enough to leave him hanging around. We finish the wheel and I trade it for pottery. Now, armed with our combined knowledge, we can make clay wheels! Set research to HBR, set science to 90%. Maya begin building the pyramids.

2630 BC – War Alpha – north, War Gamma – north, TK – east. I also notice that there are horses a couple spaces NW of Berlin.

2590 BC – Leipzig warrior (War Delta) -> worker, Worker A finishes mine, starts road, War Alpha – north, War Gamma – east, War Delta – NE, TK – SE. TK has found a goody hut. Given that the huts do pop barbarians in this game, I’m not really enthusiastic about it. Then again, since he’s a spearman he doesn’t have much to fear. I also notice that Berlin will overrun its food storage, so I MM the game to the forest for one turn to pick up 2 extra shields.

2550 BC – War Alpha – north, War Gamma – south, War Delta – north, TK – east to pop the hut, which actually gives us CB. TK also sees grapes. MM Berlin back to the game to grow next turn. Switch Berlin from settler to granary (subject to reversal)

List of active units:
War Alpha – Passing the mountain choke point. He can either start exploring or stay here to block the point along with War Delta.
War Gamma – Heading back to Berlin to do MP duty. He’ll be a turn late.
War Delta – Going north to the choke point. I want to block it before a Mayan settler gets through.
Tank Killer – Heading east to see if there’s another neighbor in the other direction. The presence of an unpopped hut indicates that the Maya probably haven’t been this way, so we may get a brokering opportunity if we meet anybody.

Cities:
Berlin – Almost halfway through a granary. Could be switched to give a settler in two turns. Berlin has 1 MP and will grow to size 4 next turn. War Gamma will arrive in 2 turns, so G_A will have to do something for one turn to avoid disorder.

Leipzig – Size 1, will grow in 4 turns and spit out a worker the same turn. I really think we need a second worker to improve those plains.

The Maya are up Masonry and Mysticism, and we are researching HBR at 90%

Our Lands (with my suggested city placement):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/2550.jpg

Wild Lands:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/scout.jpg

Is it worth trying to found a distant ctiy to get the wine? Or will it just be culture flipped?

I agree with the dotmap for most part - I just changed some southern cities to reduce overlap with Berlin. We could even take away one of the southern cities to get more room. If there are no AIs heading that way, I would head for the wines, they are important.

I got it, will play today.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_dotmapchanges.JPG

Turn 0 - 2550 BC
Looks good.

Turn 1 - 2510 BC
Temporarily have to turn luxury up to 20% as Berlin grew.

Turn 2 - 2470 BC
Maya learned Iron Working. Luxury tax back to 10% as we move a warrior to Berlin for MP duties.
Worker moves onto forest.

Turn 3 - 2430 BC
Worker roads forest.

IBT: Lepzig: Worker -> Warrior

Turn 5 - 2350 BC
IBT: Berlin: Granary -> Settler

Turn 8 - 2230 BC
Luxury tax to 20%, Berlin grew to size 5.

IBT: Lepzig: Warrior -> Warrior (change if you wish)

Turn 9 - 2190 BC
Micromanage Berlin, still Settler in 1 turn, but we get more food.

IBT: Berlin: Settler -> Settler

Turn 10 - 2150 BC
Luxury tax down to 0%! :D

Comments:
* Settler is on standby. Move him wherever you wish.
* Berlin gets +4 food per turn, but it needs 5 to grow. On the next turn, micromanage it for extra shields from the forest to just get the extra 1 fpt we need.
* Find more AIs to drive down trading prices.

Roster
floydmcw
Gato Loco
Ginger_Ale - just played
plarq - UP!
TimBentley - away until ... today / on deck

OK,I got it.

VD,abbrevation of some infamous diseases,we'll avoid that,no jungle,marsh or floodplain,if our people live in the floodplain and get VD,who pays for the medicine?
Turn 0: Send Settler to Sugars dot,hell with VD.
Turn 1: War Alpha E,Tank Killer SE
Turn 2: War Alpha E,Tank Killer S,2 GH found,but high rate to get barbs.
Turn 3: War Alpha E,Tank Killer S.
Turn 4: Berlin Settler finish,will go FPs.Tank Killer pop barbs.Lepzig goes to another warrior.
Turn 5: Barb dies to Tank Killer,Tank killer reveals another wines.Hamburg founded in Sugars dot.
Turn 6: Exploring,HBR due in IBT.
Turn 7: HBR->Alpha,Smoke doesn't have this.HBR is worthless in his eyes,Even Masonry cost our whole treasury and 10 gpt.Alpha in 13t.
Turn 8: Nothing.
Turn 9: Nothing.
Turn 10:1750BC,another settler built in Berlin.Konigberg(East Prussian) built in floodplain hills.Tank Killer goes to GH and Bulgarians taught us Myst! :party: Smoke learns HBR by himself and know Polytheism.Will we find another civ?

Notes:Settler in Berlin need direction.
MM Berlin to make it settler factory again,now size 2 without excess food.
Lepzig goes to rax, due to not knowing what to build,next player can change this.
Workers are roading to Hamburg(a.k.a Two Sugars)
Konigberg is empty and need Hamburg warrior.

Got it. I should play tomorrow.

Tank Killer has done these

1750(0)-The extra shield I got for Konigsberg was corrupted anyways
Send settler north
Send War Delta towards Mayan territory

1725(1)-zzz

1700(2)-found Frankfurt, start on worker
Gamble and war alpha pops barbs
Maya founded city on wines

IBT-warrior survives attack
Zimbabwe builds Oracle

1675(3)-zzz

IBT-Maya start ToA

1650(4)-zzz

IBT-Leipzig rax->warrior
Hamburg worker->rax (feel free to change)

1625(5)-lower science to 90%

IBT-Berlin settler->settler

1600(6)-Can't get alphabet in 2, set science to 70%
I'll send this settler east

IBT-Leipzig warrior->warrior

1575(7)-A bit of a miscalculation last turn; set science to 90%

1550(8)-Not much more to explore, so Tank Killer starts home
Science to 40%

IBT-learn alphabet, start on writing at 80%
Leipzig warrior->warrior

1525(9)-switch Berlin to curragh

IBT-Maya helps by moving warrior out to the north
Berlin curragh->rax
Konigsberg worker->granary (feel free to change), I think maybe it could be a 3-turn worker factory

1500(10)-switch Leipzig to curragh

Notes: switch Berlin to game next turn
I didn't settle yet in case you disagree with the location
You may want to lower science for if Maya demands all gold
Berlin could be a 6-turn warrior-settler factory; at size 4 it would make the warrior in 2 turns at +4fpt, then the settler would be produced in the next 4 turns (+2fpt, +3fpt, +3fpt, +4fpt)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1500.JPG

Got it. Will play tonight.

Well, that emply peninsula's a bit of a disappointment. Could it be that we're alone on this whole continent with the Maya? By the way, what does everyone think about the timetable for attacking them? I'm for doing it as soon as is practical. Being agricultural and industrious (and having an AI bonus) means they'll out-build us if we try to go for a land grab.

1500: I agree with the placement of the settler, and settle it. Munich founded, starts on worker. This gives us six cities. F11 lists us last in population and land area, next to last in GNP and shields. We make $22 per turn and produce 15 shields per turn.

Maya are up three techs (Poly, Iron, Masonry), we are up Alpha. They won't trade us a tech for Alpha, so I leave them be. Following Tim's suggestion I dial down science a notch in case Smoke-Jaguar comes knocking with a bill.

IBT: Berlin expands. We can have horses whenever we want them. I'll send a worker over when one becomes idle.

1475: War Alpha ventures southwest and spots a second gems. Southwest of that is bare tundra. War Delta climbs a mountain and spots a delta -- a rich river delta in flood plains. He will probably be stuck in that little hole of cultural influence for awhile. Tank Killer heads home.

1450: Liepzig pops a curragh and starts a temple, for happiness. (We'll need more curraghs but we may as well let our current two scout in opposite directions and see what happens to them.) Frankfurt worker -> curragh.

Berlin grows and lux must be set to 2.

War Alpha spies a goody hut in the tundra. Tank Killer meets no fewer than seven Mayan warriors. War Delta heads east into Mayan territory.

IBT: Smoke-Jaguar whines about the warrior.

1425: Nothing much. War Alpha creeps up to the goody hut. This frozen peninsula is pretty close to the eastern curragh. A curragh can't cross the gap but a galley could.

1400: The warrior wraps his scarf tightly around his face, strides shivering into the goody hut -- and finds a friendly settler, who wants to "join our despotism." (I've always found that phrasing rather weird. "You're despotic? Well come oppress me then!")

War Delta climbed a mountain next to Calakmul. The edge of Mayan territory is visible to the north.

IBT: Mayans boot Warrior Delta ... back into the interior gap.

Rome builds the Colossus.

1375: Berlin warrior -> settler. The newly built warrior moves east to cover Munich. Berlin has 5 pop so lux to 20. Tank Killer moves south to help hold the tundra city.

1350: Done irrigating the flood plain.

1325: Hamburg rax -> spear. Switch Liepzig to settler as it's about to grow to 4.

Saw someone pink! (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) It's anInca warrior/settler pair. Inca are up Iron, Mason, Poly but will trade Iron for Alpha straight up. They even add their 36 gold. The Inca have nine cities.

Iron's not easy to come by. There's some to the south of the Mayans, and some off in the empty section to our east.

1300: Lots of workers free, but I don't road the horses just yet. We're not ready to build 30-shield units.

IBT: Ottomans build pyramids.

1275: Berlin and Liepzig pop settlers. Lux back down to 10.

Settlers three, where should they be? Feel free to yell at me for making
decisions, but I don't like cooling their heels for two whole turns to let someone else decide what to do with them. I looked at the dot map for guidance and decided on the following:

- Berlin's settler will go next to the horses. This has the potential to be a nice early city, with grassland and forests, and it's near the capital so corruption will be low.

Liepzig's settler will wander north or east of Konigsberg, I'll leave it up to the next player.

The barb settler will squat on hills next to the gems. There's not much to make of that spot but there are whales, the hill offers defense from barbs,
and it's on our side of the coast. This city is called Hiedelberg; it starts a warrior, but that could be a harbor later or worker or whatever someone wants.

(It won't be a worker for awhile, as Hiedel will take 20 turns to grow.)

Change Hamburg to a warrior. Send a worker out past Konigs to work the flood plain; kind of an exposed position but nothing awful happens.

1250: Munich worker -> warrior. Settler reaches destination north of Berlin. I leave the other settler and his escort to the next player, which is a nice symmetry.

Word up for the next player:

- Tank Killer needs to join his brethren in Heidelberg.
- We get Writing in 5 turns and a running a -1 deficit.
- Berlin can alternate warriors and settlers, as Tim suggested. Don't forget to raise lux when Berlin grows to 5.

Some screenshots, starting with our lands:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1500_ger.JPG

The eastern lands, and our new city:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1500_east.JPG

And our Meso-American neighbors:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1500_mes.JPG

My points:We need to grab the flood river N to Heidelberg.Build city towards that direction.An early war with Mayans is great,since he can't get us in 20t given that he's no Iron.Build some horse,raze Quirigua and his expansion will be slowed down.The land seems promising for an early domination.

Ouch, we need to stop the Mayans from expanding ASAP. They have lots of room to expand. Should we also head towards Iron, the most important resource in the game? Otherwise, attacking with Longbows is pretty futile. I would push north with cities in order to block the Mayans, then backfill.

I'm up next, but I don't see the save. Also, I'd like people's opinions about researching map making next. I think a few galleys would be very useful for the Mayan war since walking (or riding) all that way would be quite a pain. Plus we can unload right next to their cities and skip the long march through hostile territory.

Edit: Oops, I only see one coastal city we could reach. Anyway, I think we need either galleys or a road. I'll try to grab that iron next to their territory and build a road to it.

1250 BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1250_BC.sav)

As for strategy, I agree that we should hit the Mayans, but I think we should aim at ravaging their homeland and securing iron. Quiringa isn't of much use to them.

We should go for Literature after Writing. It's a tech that the AI neglects, and we might be able to leverage one tech from each of Maya and Inca.

Got it. I'll play tonight. Too bad we aren't industrious, with all the roads we're going to build.

I'd like to build some Lib(Not Glib) to boost our research,if we can get GL in Mayan war,we'll rush FP on the golden river N of Heidelberg.

Ok, I only got to play half the turns. I'll play the rest tomorrow.

1250 BC – Preflight:
2 Settlers. Western one founds in place, eastern one will found on the iron near the Maya. We need to secure it soon.
Science can go to 70% to avoid a deficit.
Konisberg – ok
Hanberg – ok
Leipzig – switch to warrior. We’re going to get iron. Why have archers?
Munich – Switch to barracks. Why build regular units? I’ll send a vet for MP fro now.
Frankfurt – ok
Berlin - MM forest to plains. The warrior is going to finish next turn so I’ll save the high-shield part of the cycle for next turn.
Heidelberg – Switch to temple. Once TK arrives it’ll have 2 MP and needs a border expansion. The temple is a prebuild for either a harbor or library, either of which is needed to get better food production.
Rename the warrior with the settler Escort
Rename the warrior crouching with two workers Guard? Are there barbs in the area?

Send Escort and his settler NE,N. They are heading for iron before the Maya get it.

IBT – Berlin Warrior (Maya Assault 1) -> Settler, MM back to forest.
Hamburg Warrior (Maya Assault 2) -> Warrior

1225 BC – Settler + Escort north
Worker near Munich – Road
West Settler founds Nuremburg -> Barracks
Warrior Der Leipzig – fortify as MP
Eastern Curragh – S,S
Curragh Der Inca – W,N
War Delta – N, sees another Incan city
Maya Assault 1 – N,NE,E
Maya Assault 2 – N,NE,N (I feel that settler deserves more escort)
Worker on sugar mines

IBT – Inca boots War Delta
Berlin Grows, turn lux to 20%, Sci to 50%

1200 BC – Escort, Settler, and Maya Assault 2 all north
Worker A mines tobacco (a tobacco mine?)
Maya Assault 1 – NE,NE,E
East Curragh SW,S
Curragh Der Inac – NW,N, sees another Inca city
War Delta – N, sees Mayan spice
TK – S

IBT - Leipzig Warrior Der Munich -> Warrior

1175 BC - War Der Munich – E,SE,S
MA2, Settler, Warrior – all north
Frankfurt worker finishes road, builds mine
Eastern Curragh SE,SE
TK – SE
War Delta – E, sees Maya City
Curragh Der Inca – NW,N, sees coast across the sea, too far to reach.
Workers on sugar named Road Gang 1 and 2, W,N,NE. We need an RG3
Guard? Also goes to Hamburg for MP duty.

IBT - Incas complain about Curragh, Maya are sending a settler somewhere…

1150 BC - War Delta – NW
Curragh Der Inca – S
Escort, Settler, MA2 all north
Rename worker on FP Road Gang 3, build road
RG1,2 – NE
Guard? - Fort
Warrior Der Munich – S
Worker near Munich move to Tobacco and help mine.
Eastern Curragh – S,S
TK – SW

IBT - Maya boot War Delta
Research Writing -> Literature
Berlin Settler, but oops, I forgot to MM so Berlin is now out of phase. Many apologies for wasting a turn. I’ll make a spearman instead of a warrior to get it back in phase
Hamburg warrior (Maya Assault 3) -> worker (we need more)
Lux to 0%
Sci to 70%

1125 BC - Maya Assault 3 – N,NE,N, as an escort for the road gang
Warrior der Munich – fortify
Road Gang 1,2 build road, RG3 – NW
Settler, Escort, MA3, all north
TK – fortify
E. Curragh, W,SW
War Delta – NE
Curragh Der Inca – W,W to a small island
New Settler, NE,NE,NE

The results so far:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/1150.jpg

Before I resume playing tomorrow, I'd like to throw a question out for discussion. How should we trade our new knowledge? The Inca will give either Polytheism + 2gpt or Masonry + 13gpt + 5g. The Maya will give both Masonry and Polytheism for Writing + 43 gold. The both also possess Monarchy. It's time for us to decide which government we're going for. If we want monarchy, we may be able to get it this turn and revolt for a relatively short anarchy. I like the idea of losing the despotism penalty so soon. I don't like the idea of being stuck with monarchy on a large, relatively empty island. If we don't go for monarchy, I plan to get both techs from the Maya and then as much gold as possible form the Inca.

Also I've got another settler. I'm sending him toward the northern end of the desert river if no one minds. Especially if we're going monarch we need more cities for unit support quickly, and we need a high food city for more workers.

I like the idea of going for Republic.

I would first do the Mayan deal, to be sure we get the two valued techs (which we could sell if we meet another continent), and then we can sell Writing to the Inca for some gpt. 13 gpt is huge - I wonder how they are getting all that.

Where is the settler going exactly? The river on our peninsula, or by the floodplain wheat? If it's on our peninsula, isn't that a bit tight for placement? I would place cities W of the Fish (S of the wheat) on our peninsula and the forest in the very south of our peninsula on plains. That gives our cities at least some room.

Isn't it going to be a long time before we get iron? We either have to get Mapmaking and build a harbor in the iron city -- and because it has poor food we can't pop-rush it easily, so we either wait 40 turns or hurry in Monarchy/Republic. Or, we build a long long road all the way through the desert and over at least two mountains.

Maybe we should just build a lot of horsemen and go to war with them? We can save the iron-built units for a later war.

Two more thoughts:

1. Maybe it's not such a bad thing if the Maya stick a settler on the iron. Let them go to all the work of building a far-off city and roading it while we build productive cities that make us military units to capture that Mayan city.

2. El Gato asked if there were barbs around the workers being escorted by a warrior. I don't know, but the time is coming when the barb camps erupt with horsemen. So a warrior on the edge of the cultural border can be nabbed without warning. We may want to send a unit or two into the corners of our peninsula to check for camps. (That's why I had started additional warriors.)

@Ginger - The Settler is indeed going for our river. I like tight city placement. But I also like the fish coast square and could just as easily found that one first.

@Floyd - I don't like the idea of using horsemen. They're the least cost-efficient offensive unit of the ancient age, against an enemy who is getting a hefty AI build bonus. Can we really build enough horsemen to kill all the spearmen the Maya are bound to build? Also, if the Maya get the iron city, we've got to attack spearmen fortified on a hill - with horsemen at 30 shields a pop, while the Maya go after us with swordsmen. Plus the jungle and swamp near the Maya will negate the horses' movement advantage and leave them open to counterattack if they try to reach the Maya homeland. We might be better off using archers for this or shipping our horsemen around the jungle with galleys. If we do fight a horse war, I'd say we just aim to take Quiringa and any other cities they build on our side of the jungle, and maybe get a tech for peace. We've got to decide now since if we're going to use archers or horsemen, we should be building them instead of warriors.

After thinking about it, my plan would be to get a barracks in the iron city, set science to 0%, and spend lots of money upgrading the warriors as they pass through. However, this may be considered an exploit, since it's suspiciously like purposely disconnecting a resource for cheap build/upgrades. What rules are we playing by?

Of course we don't have to fight. We could also go for Republic and try to peacefully expand. If we're resigned to not having iron, this may be the best bet.

p.s. From my calculations it'll take about 22 turns for three workers to build a road all the way to the iron. They'll cross one mountain and one swamp.

Hi Gato, my reply:

@Floyd - I don't like the idea of using horsemen. They're the least cost-efficient offensive unit of the ancient age, against an enemy who is getting a hefty AI build bonus. Can we really build enough horsemen to kill all the spearmen the Maya are bound to build?

Horsemen aren't really so bad because they can retreat when losing, so they survive more than other units.

No matter what unit we choose, I can't see us defeating a far-off power. The best we can do is harass them, steal some workers and settlers, and hack up their infrastructure. Horses are perfect for this.

Also, if the Maya get the iron city, we've got to attack spearmen fortified on a hill - with horsemen at 30 shields a pop, while the Maya go after us with swordsmen. Plus the jungle and swamp near the Maya will negate the horses' movement advantage and leave them open to counterattack if they try to reach the Maya homeland. We might be better off using archers for this or shipping our horsemen around the jungle with galleys.

Yes, it would be tough to get that one specific city, but that's the only city we really want. All our other battles will be fought to our advantage to do the Mayans economic damage. Anyway they haven't built such a city yet.

If we do fight a horse war, I'd say we just aim to take Quiringa and any other cities they build on our side of the jungle, and maybe get a tech for peace. We've got to decide now since if we're going to use archers or horsemen, we should be building them instead of warriors.

Yes, definitely we need to make a decision now. Taking nearby cities for tech could work.

After thinking about it, my plan would be to get a barracks in the iron city, set science to 0%, and spend lots of money upgrading the warriors as they pass through. However, this may be considered an exploit, since it's suspiciously like purposely disconnecting a resource for cheap build/upgrades. What rules are we playing by?

I don't think this is an exploit, as it has disadvantages. Our warrior-producing capability will outstrip our upgrading capability; it costs 60 to turn a warrior into a sword, and we only produce 30 gold a turn.

Of course we don't have to fight. We could also go for Republic and try to peacefully expand. If we're resigned to not having iron, this may be the best bet.

I think we should fight because it's low risk. The least we would get is some slaves. The Mayans are too far away to hurt us.

p.s. From my calculations it'll take about 22 turns for three workers to build a road all the way to the iron. They'll cross one mountain and one swamp.

This is why I'm wary of going for the iron spot. Those 66 worker turns could be spent improving our own infrastructure, giving us money and shields. I don't want to spend so much effort preparing for a war that we fall further behind.

We should be able to play the Incans and Mayans off each other to maintain a balance of power. Destroying one of them would just turn the other into a superpower. In fact, shouldn't that be one of our goals, to get the Incas involved? Let them waste both their GA's in despotism cranking out units to be slaughtered! :smoke:

Floyd,
You make some good points. I don't think the war is low risk. We can defend ourselves, but at the cost of building lots of units, many of which will be destroyed, instead of building and expanding. This runs the risk of falling further behind and having a bunch of industrial age colonsits showing up on the empty peninsula. But anyway, if we're going to do it, I'll start making horses as soon as I het that horse roaded. I'm still going for the iron city. Upgrading a few swords and having a fallback position to absorb counterattacks is worth it. So for now it looks like the plan is to use the war to block Mayan expansion through the desert while siezing the land for ourselves. We've got to make sure we keep sending out settlers during the war.

Also, I think the Inca already started their golden age. How else do they get 13 gpt to trade us? If we're lucky I can sign a gpt deal which will bankrupt them as soon as the GA ends. Perhaps the neighbors are at war already? We don't have embassies, so we don't know.

p.s. I'm not sure how long I'll take. My computer is having problems and may give out. I'm attaching the half-played save just in case I lose my computer and can't finish it myself.

p.p.s. (then removed it because I finished the turns.)

1125 BC - Maya Assault 3 – N,NE,N, as an escort for the road gang
Warrior der Munich – fortify
Road Gang 1,2 build road, RG3 – NW
Settler, Escort, MA3, all north
TK – fortify
E. Curragh, W,SW
War Delta – NE
Curragh Der Inca – W,W to a small island
New Settler, NE,NE,NE
Trade Writing + 43g to Maya for Masonry and Polytheism. Trade it to Inca for 11gold + 6gpt. GPT is preferred over lump sum because it’s less likely to be demanded. Once the Maya know it they won’t pay 13gpt anymore.
Science to 100%
Switch Leipzig to archer. We’ll use him in the coming war.

IBT - Japanese get ToA. Good thing it wasn’t the Maya. We couldn’t capture it and they’d get loads of culture.

1100 BC - War Delta – East
Curragh Der Inca – SW,W
Escort, Settler, MA2 – North
MA3 – north (barb hunting)
RG3 – irrigate
RG 1,2 – NE
Worker A and companion go W,W
New Settler – NE,NE,E
E. Curragh – SW,S
Sci 90%, Lux 10%

IBT - Frankfurt Curragh 3 -> Temple (Library prebuild)
Inca get hanging gardens the same turn they start it. SGL?
Zulu get the wall. Meh.

1075 BC - Curragh 3 – NE,NE
Worker A and companion West
Settler E,N
RG1 – road
RG2 – irrigate
MA3 – NW
Escort,Settler,MA2 – north
War Delta – NE
Curragh Der Inca – W,N
E. Curragh – S,E
Berlin producing on plains

IBT - Berlin Spear (Hoplite Wannabe) -> Settler

1050 BC - HW – NE,NE,NE
Worker A – Road
Companion – NW
Curr. Der Inca – N,E
Curr 3 – SW,W (Going to suicide)
Settler – E
E. Curragh – E,E
MA3 – W
Settler, escort, MA2 – north
War Delta – north, another Maya city

IBT - Maya boots War Delta again, but to a different place.
Leipzig Archer (Pointy Stick) -> Archer
Hamburg – Worker -> Spear

1025 BC - Pointy Stick – E,E,N
HW – NE,NE,E
Worker roads horse
Worker near Frankfurt goes SE,SE,SE
Curr. Der Inca – E,S
Curr 3 – E,E
MA3 – NE
RG3 – road
RG2 – S
Worker from Hamburg – NE
Settler – SE
E. Curragh E,NE
Settler founds Cologne on iron
Escort – renamed “Sneaky”, move north
MA2 – north
War Delta – south
RG1 – north

IBT - Inca building Great Library

1000 BC – War Delta – SW
Curr Der Inca – SE
PS – NE,N
HW – N,NE,N
Work Der Hamburg – irr
Settler founds Hannover near fish. This seems to be a less controversial choice.
E. Curr – NE,E
MA2 – fortify in Cologne
Sneaky – NE
RG2 – South
RG3 – SW
RG1 – road
MA3 – east
Curr 3 – N
Worker near Leipzig - Irrigate


Notes: Konigsberg is growing fast. Maybe we should whip the granary at some point?
One worker is still roading north. A few spaces of road will be better than none, especially if he reaches the mountains.
Horses are almost connected. Be sure to switch spear and archer prebuilds over when the road is done.
Keep an eye on Berlin
We’re benefiting from a 7gpt deal. It will expire in ~15 turns and we’ll need taxes again. When we get Lit, try to get more Incan gpt.
I didn’t get Monarchy because the war we’re planning doesn’t quite fit it. Better to have a late Republic if we aren’t at war perpetually.
Send more troops to Cologne, such as the archer and spearman.
Maybe Frankfurt should make another worker instead?
Next one up should get an embassy with the Inca. We’ll need it eventually.
Those Inca settlers will make nice human shields.

Gato Loco is undoubtedly correct deducing that the Incans are in a GA. They probably popped a bunch of huts that gave them techs. Such as:

We’re benefiting from a 7gpt deal. It will expire in ~15 turns and we’ll need taxes again. When we get Lit, try to get more Incan gpt.

Not if they're building the Great Library, we won't. :cry: We'll have to get what we can from the Mayans.

The Incans may be able to reach the Middle Ages soon. Don't all the barb camps erupt with horses when that happens? I'm looking for a siren smiley but can't find one. Be careful out there! Hold hands when you cross the street!

Got it, will play tonight.

PS: We can sell to the Incans for gpt even if they have the great library. They get the techs for it the turn after 2 civs know it, so we are better off selling it to them, even if it's only for 1 gold if they have TGL since they'll learn it via TGL if 2 civs know it.

Turn 0 - 1000 BC
Change Cologne (Iron city) from a Temple to Barracks -> this city is 3 tiles from an Incan, so we don't want this to be under cultural pressure, plus the barracks will have no use in this city of high corruption.
Change Konigsberg from a Granary to a Settler in 1, timed with the growth. This city is food plentyful, so a granary at 2 spt uses up precious shields.

IBT: Mayans demand 21 gold, we cave.
Konigsberg: Settler -> Settler

Turn 1 - 975 BC
Micromanage Berlin to time the settler with growth, at not cost to shields or gold.

IBT: Berlin: Settler -> Settler

Turn 2 - 950 BC
Turn luxury tax down to 10%.

IBT: Munich: Barracks -> Archer

Turn 3 - 925 BC
Send out a suicide curragh.

IBT: Leipzig: Archer -> Horse

Turn 4 - 900 BC
Curragh survives another turn and moves 2 more West.

Turn 5 - 875 BC
Buy Literature from the Incans for 47 gold (we had 2 turns left).
Curragh moves 2 more west. Science to Code of Laws due in 11.

IBT: Hamburg: Archer -> Archer

Turn 6 - 850 BC
Curragh survives yet another turn! It ends its turn 2 tiles away from land (we can spot an orange border). F10 tells us it's the Ottomans. *crosses fingers to survive 1 more turn*
Have to put luxury tax to 20% as Berlin grew.

IBT: Berlin: Settler -> Library

Turn 7 - 825 BC
Our curragh died. :( :( :(
Stuttgart is founded.

Turn 8 - 800 BC
Inca learned Code of Laws (Maya still don't know it).

Turn 9 - 775 BC
IBT: Nuremberg: Barracks -> Warrior (for cheap MP).

Turn 10 - 750 BC
Notes:
> Settler is in place to found a new city (fishing village once we get Map Making + Harbors).
> Northern curragh will try another suicide mission. The chances of surviving is 1/2 ^ 4, or 1 in 16. We were close last time.
> Spear in the middle of the desert is heading towards Cologne for defense.
> The great government debate: should we try Feudalism? I've never tried it, but since our cities won't be big in size, Republic will kill us with unit support, and Monarchy won't be good either. I'm fine with doing any government, but WE NEED TO GO TO WAR ASAP.

PS: We can sell to the Incans for gpt even if they have the great library.

Literature is a prerequisite for building the Great Library.

I jumped to your first post from an email notification and didn't see your turns. Don't mind me, I have the flu and am quite groggy. :crazyeye:

Too bad about that curragh. Maybe we should probe some other crossing rather than try for the 1/16 shot?

Feudalism? Actually, this may be one of those situations where it's actually a good idea. What I don't like about feudalism is the war weariness without a commerce bonus, as it becomes harder to deal with the unhappiness by raising luxuries. That and the pop-rush. Anyway, I've been thinking about battle plans and I noticed something:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/War_plan.jpg

If we occupy both of the mountains indicated we have a kill zone spanning the entire border. I think it's worth getting a barracks in Cologne and upgrading some warriors for swordsmen to park on those mountains. Assuming we're still going to use horses, they should be able to sweep up the three cities in our target area, with archers or somesuch taking that last one. Hopefully the AI will have neglected those outlying colonies like it usually does.

In the longer term, we've got to think about the Incas. They're very advanced, probably as the result of a golden age. Once we beat up the Mayans, I think we should then bury the hatchet and eventually ally with the Maya and use them as a buffer zome between us and the Inca. This means honorable warmongering. No razing, no capturing cities we don't intend to keep, and of course no sneak attacks.

In any case, we need money, for upgrading or for an alliance. Is it time to lower science? We also need horsemen more than anything else.

I'm up now.Possibly play later.

Preturn:I change all temples to libraries.We're SCI,right,library is cheaper and more cultural.Whip Library in Heidelburg.Change Nuremburg Taxman to a Scientist.
IBT:Maya boots us,those Mayan Settler pair gone mad through the swamp,hell with IND trait.Leipzig Horse->Warrior,Heidelburg Library->Barracks
Turn 1,730BC,build Bonn on spot.Start Granary(can be changed anytime)Chop Frankfurt for Barracks.
IBT:3 Mayan Settler pair heads east,into Uxact__ city,Munich Archer->Archer,
Turn 2,710BC,nothing.
IBT:Berlin Lib->Archer
Turn 3,690BC,Mayan learned Philosophy.
IBT:Nothing
Turn 4,670BC,turn down science,CoL next turn.
IBT:CoL->Map Making.Berlin Curragh->Horse.Nuremburg Warrior->Warrior,Bremen Warrior->Warrior.Kyoto SoZ,Veli MoM,we're really backwards.
Turn 5,650BC,Trade CoL to Mayans for Math +9g,it looks both MesoAmericans lacks Currency to MA.
IBT:Konigberg Settler->Settler,Hamburg Horse->Horse
Turn 6:630BC,Incans start colonalize islands.My Curragh follows.
IBT:Frankfurt riots.Stuggart worker->worker
Turn 7:610BC,nothing new.
IBT:Nothing
Turn 8:590BC,Bonn hired Scientist.Build Austrian Salzburg near Bremen,hope Mozart will join us.
IBT:Frankfurt Barracks->Archer,Munich Archer->Archer,lose Curragh.
Turn 9:570BC,Nothing,but I'm confused if we should attack Maya now or not.
Stop here,next player can play 11t.
Notice:Road Forest in NW Berlin,and make 10spt out of Berlin.
We can fight either Maya or Inca,whack tech out of them.
Are horses enough?I don't see if we have money to upgrade warrior to swords(If we save money,AI will demand them away.)
Pop rush Library in Cologne.
Curraghs,more Curraghs,we can build curragh in Berlin,since shields will be wasted anyway.

Got it.

570(0)-do some MM, switch reg warrior builds
whip library in Cologne

IBT-Nuremberg warrior->horse
Cologne library->rax (future harbor)
Hannover worker->worker

550(1)-zzz

IBT-Berlin riots due to mismicromanagement
Bonn worker->worker

530(2)-zzz

IBT-Leipzig horse->horse
Hamburg horse->horse

510(3)-zzz

IBT-Berlin horse->settler

490(4)-lux to 30%

IBT-learn map making, start currency at min (for now, at least)

470(5)-zzz

IBT-Bremen worker->library

450(6)-zzz

IBT-Berlin settler->horse
Konigsberg worker->worker

430(7)-Declare on Maya, didn't realize we have no embassy with Inca
kill two spears, warrior to capture Uaxactun

IBT-Maya lose a warrior
Leipzig horse->horse

410(8)-lose three archers to a single spear before a horse kills it, spear and jav taken out without too much trouble capturing Cuello
Build embassy in Cuzco, no reasonable MA deal
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_Cuzco.JPG

IBT-Hamburg horse->horse
Salzburg worker->worker
Inca start Sun Tzu's

390(9)-kill some warriors

IBT-Maya lose three warriors
Frankfurt galley->horse
Munich horse->horse
Chichen Itza builds the Great Library

370(10)-kill a warrior

IBT-Horse retreats, then jav kills it
Berlin horse->horse
moving MP caused Munich to riot
Hannover worker->worker
Inca start Sun Tzu's

350(11)-Kill a warrior

Notes: Change the build in Uaxactun, obviously
Settler is waiting for galley to settle across water
Send the galley to other continent

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_350BC.JPG

Good start to the war. With the Great Library in Mayan hands, we have a potential tech punching bag on our hands. I'd try, if at all possible, to take out their iron and then just keep bashing on them, making peace for tech when they offer it, then booting units until they redeclare. And of course as long as we can keep their colonies separate form their core they're fair game no matter how advanced the Maya are. Of course there's also the all-out attempt to capture Chichen Itza, but I bet that's a pipe dream. I'll do more thinking when I have time to look in detail at the save.

p.s. Will somebody please pillage that road through the swamp?

Got the save, will play today.

Note that the Mayans are in a GA, so we may have our hands full.

Okay, I loaded and inspected the save and have some questions for group discussion before I play my turns.

1. I assume the goal is to take Mayan cities in the southeast. Quiringa, the next city, would give us wines. However some of these cities are fairly large, size 5 or 6, so we would run into flip problems.

I plan to take Quiringa with 8-10 units and sit on it until it's starved down.

2. I'd like to get an alliance with the Inca, but ouch -- 24 per turn! We'd best hope they are just as reluctant to join with the Mayans against us :( .

Yeah, 24 per turn is too much. I'd suggest razing/resettling the bigger Mayan cities, but that would be a bad idea if we ever plan to ally with the Maya in the future and want to avoid making them too terribly mad. With the Maya golden age in progress, maybe the best thing would be to starve/tax Quiringa and sit tight at our border, absorbing the Mayan GA onslaught accross the swamps while perhaps sending a pillaging expedition into their territory. That iron is temptingly close, and it looks like their only source. Our best shot at neutralizing their tech lead is to deny them access to their fancy middle age units.

Finally, what are our golden age plans? If we eventually capture the great library (years from now, of course), that's half our golden age right there. Do you think we'll ever have a shot at Leonardo or Sun Tzu? Or should we wait for panzers?

Fianlly, I'm starting to regret that we didn't go for monarchy. Is republic really worth all these years in despotism?

A frustrating set of turns; I was hamstrung by a lack of defensive units and our strategic position is poor.

Change some builds to spears, to cut down on horse losses. Check all cities.
Pillage the northernmost swamp road with a horse, who may well die as he pulls up next to two jav throwers.

IBT: Jav attacks horse, who does not retreat and dies.

330: Liepzig horse -> horse. Koenigs worker -> catapult. Bonn worker -> spear. That's enough workers for awhile.

Move workers onto swamp to hook up Cologne.

Is this settler really going to wait 15 turns for a galley? I guess there's not much else to do. Frustrating that Stuttgart would be 3x as productive with a single MP, but we can't really spare it.

I switch Stutt to an archer; that will provide an MP, a bonus military unit, and we'll still get a galley in 15 turns total.

No fighting this turn. Let the Mayans come to me.

Rename some units; it's difficult to try to see what I have in a city and to parse stuff like "Sneaky."

IBT: More mayan javs move up.

310: Berlin spear -> horse. Hamburg spear -> horse.

Maya are building Sun Tzu, in case you were in the mood for good news.

Lose a horse popping the jav next to Uaxac. Lose an elite and a vet, but kill three javs
next to Uaxac's mountain (a vet promotes).

IBT: More Mayans comin' down.

290: Frankfurt warrior (for MP) -> horse (gained a shield/turn). Cuello riots (oops).

Horse pops a jav and runs.

IBT: Horse comes out of Quiringa and we're lucky to win. Other Mayas from the north do not come south; they head west.

Inca blackmails 28! Oh, yes sir! Please, may I have another!

270: Cologne is roaded and we have iron! I switch all horse builds to swords.

IBT: Mayans might be gathering for assault on Cologne. They're two squares away.

250: Berlin, Liepzig, Nuremburg all produce swords. Bremen warrior (MP) -> spear.

IBT: Mayans descend on swamp next to Cologne. Fine with me if they want to attack our hill city. A horse comes out of Quir and, losing against a warrior, backs off.

230: Stuttgart archer -> galley.

Bring the elite archer and a second spear into Cologne and sit tight. Splat the redlined Mayan horse.
The leading sword is across the river at Salzburg.

IBT: Two Mayan attacks cannot damage the spear, who promotes! However two more Mayans move south along the mountains.

The Incans choose this time to boot me.

210: Hannover riots (damn it, I checked F1 before ending the turn). It's got a cheap MP on the way.

IBT: A reg horse kills our elite horse. :-( Also, a Mayan MI shows up.

Sight the Zulu, who land a settler to the south of the gems city.

190: Three swords. Cuello worker -> lib.

Zulu appear to be up all techs and have ~12 cities.

IBT: Lots more movement. Are now six javs on mountains south of Cologne.

170: Liepzig produces a sword, Koenigsburg a catapult.

I'm not attacking javs in the mountains. I set up a sword block on the mountain NW of Cuello.

IBT: Mayan MI kills the elite spear. :-( He's wounded, so we may want to splat him.

The galley sinks.

150: I leave the 120th turn to the next player. Some warnings/suggestions:

- Splat the redlined horse next to Uaxactun.
- You may or may not want to go for the wounded MI in the mountains.
- Splat the javs on the road north of Cuello.
- Either splat the jav next to the worker (there's a sword next to Bremen), or pull the worker back to safety.
- If we're going to attack Quiringa, then take the spear and some other units and road the desert next to the Mayan hill. Then put units on the hill and storm Quiringa. Good luck.

Most important: We can get Philo for free if we make peace, and Constr for 300ish gold and 5ish per turn. That's probably our best option.

The war theater:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_150_ann.JPG
The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_150_BC.sav)

The next player may also want to upgrade a few warriors, which I completely spaced out on. :mad: Not that we have that many warriors to spare -- even at 30% lux we have serious happiness problems.

Are we really going to try for Republic? I can't imagine what our Lux would have to be then. Wouldn't Monarchy and its 3 MP be a better govt?

I'm fine with Monarchy, since we do have a small (under 7 population per city) empire. Glad to see we met the Zulu ... they probably have an island closeby.

We do need peace asap. MDI vs. Spears is not good.

Roster
floydmcw - just played
Gato Loco - UP!
Ginger_Ale - on deck
TimBentley
plarq

Yeah, we should be able to get Monarchy for peace; maybe not for free but at a discount.

Oh, one other reminder: When the galley is built to take the settler over by the gems city, put a worker on it so we can road the gems. We have a lot of workers and they're not doing much. The other workers should road those mountains so we can block them next time we're at war with the Maya.

Got it. I can't guarantee I'll have time until thursday, but I'll try to get a couple turns in today or tomorrow. I'll try to get monarchy and revolt, as we're getting left in the dust in despotism. Then I'll get some swords together for a future assault on quiringua.

Ok, I took a look at the save, and here's what I see:

We can get all required techs for the next age for peace, 355 gold, and 16 gpt. If we do this we should hope that we can start a boot-war soon.

We can get construction and currency for peace, 366 gold and 6 gpt.

We can get monarchy for peace, 366 gold and 7 gpt.

We can get an Inca alliance for 366 gold and 5 gpt

We can't get any gold for peace, as the Maya appear to have none.


So, what are people's thoughts? The Maya are about halfway thriough their GA. If we can get an alliance and hold on a little longer I feel that they will eventually crumble. This will probably result in the Inca taking much of the Mayan homeland and us geting the colonies to the east if we can hold on long enough. Or it could result in us getting whomped during my turns while the GA is still active. Cologne (and our iron) is in serious trouble.

If you go for peace, I would suggest getting all required techs and seeing what you can do with the free tech.

Free tech gambit?Well if we're bankrupt...but war cannot continue.We can't get strong troops to deal with MDI and Pikes.But don't drain our gpt.

First the bad news. I took so long deliberating and taking notes that I only played one turn today. Now the good news:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Quiringua.jpg

150 BC – Preflight:
We’re in a precarious position, but stopping the war now means giving up Quiringua for the time being. I’ll have to check first to see if we can continue the war. If the onslaught is almost over we could get some breathing room. First I’ll counterattack the troops in our territory and see how that goes:

Uaxactun horseman attacks redlined horse – wins w/o injury, goes E
Swordsman near Salzburg – N,attacks jav to east, wins without injury
Horse near Uaxactun – SW,SW,attack Jav S, wins redlined
Horse near Uaxactun – SW,SW,attack Jav S, wins with 1 damage
Sword near Uaxactun – W,W,attack MDI NW, wins redlined
Cologne elite archer attacks jav in swamp, dies, jav is vet with 2 hp left.
Sword near Cuello – attacks jav north, flawless win, promotes to elite.
Sword near Cuello – attacks jav north, wins redlined.
Archer near Cuello – N to defend redlined sword.
Spear near Uaxactun – NW to defend redlined sword.
Uaxctun horses - E,SE to hill overlooking Quiringua
Uaxctun warrior – W,W,W to defend Cologne
Redlined horse – E to safety
¾ horse – W to safety in mountain

Since we’re in need of some luck, I’ll roll the dice, hold on a turn, and try to take Quiringua with the 4 veteran horsemen. It’s a long shod, but we need a lucky break, and the AI does tend to neglect outlying, unconnected cities.

MA3 – into Uaxactun as MP
Worker near Bermen – road
3 Workers near Bonn – road
Sword near Bonn – NE,E,N
Curr 3 – S,W
Catapult – N,N,N
RG2 – irrigate
Worker near Hanover cut forest, switch Hanover to harbor to receive the cutting bonus.
Worker A – NW,NW,NW to help with mountain road.
Other workers near Hamburg – N,N,N, we ‘ll need manpower to clear the Cologne swamp.
Hamburg Sword – NE,N,N
Sword near Konigsburg – NE,N,N


Give Munich a scientist, switch build to archer for MP. Munich is the only unhappy city, so the Lux slider isn’t warranted yet.
MM Leipzig from forest to irr. Plains so it can grow. Sword still due in 3.
MM Konigsberg desert to FP. It’ll groe in 3, then we can go for shields.

IBT - We lose an archer, a spearman, and a swordsman. They don’t attack Cologne.
Berlin Sword -> Sword
Frankfurt horse -> Horse
Heidelburg Harbor -> worker (to road gems)

130 BC - Quiringua Assault:
Horse 1 – Kills a spear, takes 2 dmg, promotes
Horse 2 – Does 1 damage to a spear, retreats, spear still on top.
Horse 3 – Takes 1 dng, kills wounded spear
Horse 4 – Takes 2 damage, kills horseman, promotes, captures city!

Ok, now I was tempted to raze Quiringua because of the flip risk. However, there is an Incan settler to the SW who would probably steal the spot before we could settle it. So I kept it. It has 5 pop, all resistors. I’ll load in lots of troops to fight resistance and try to starve/whip it down.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/War.jpg

Smokey the Bear will now get us to the middle ages for peace, all our gold, and 6 gpt. Tomorrow I'll probably wait another turn to make peace, hoping to kill a few more units and drive down the price further. The longer the Maya stay at war, the more of their golden age they waste on units. The only trick is to end the war before those units reach us. What really worries me is the flipability of Quiringua. If it flips while we're at peace, we can't get it back. If we stay at war, we can park troops next to it to keep it in our hands. I'll try to whip a library.

:band:

Well done. The flip risk can't be that bad; when you whip a library you'll kill two birds, er Mayans, with one stone.

I would like to humbly suggest that those javs won't be so harmless if they pillage our road.

Continued:

Cat near Cuello – N,N, bombards jav for 1 hp
Horse S,S of Cologne, attack wounded jav E, dies
Sword S,S of Cologne, attacdk wounded Jav, wins

Peace with Maya + 397 gold + 3 gpt in exchange for currency, construction, and philosophy. We get Monotheism (Lutheranism?) for free. Unfortunately, all three neighbors have it. If we’d gotten engineering we’d have made off like bandits. I research Monarchy at 40% because we really need a government change. I also switch several builds to economic buildings.

Three horsemen outside Quiringua go inside and fortify.
Worker in Quiringua goes W,W
Curr 3 – S,W
Switch Berlin to Harbor. We need one somewhere, and Berlin is using most of its land.
Switch Leipzig to Market. We need economic infrastructure.
Switch Nuremburg to spear for MP
Switch Frankfurt to harbor. It looks like a good “fishing” spot to help our economy.
Berlin sword – NE,NE,NE
Worker A – Road
Frankfurt Horse – SE,SE,SE,E,N,N
Workers near Konigsberg – NE,NE,N
Sword near Konigsberg – NE,N,N
Sword near Salzburg – NE,N,N
Sword near Salzburg – N,N,N
Sword near Nasca – N
Sword near Cuello – NE
Cologne Warrior – E,E,E MP for Uaxctun
Redlined horse – NE,NE into Uaxcutun
Uaxactun warrior and 5 workers – SE

IBT – 4 Quiringua resisters quelled, civil disorder, hire 4 scientists to starve the city.

110 BC - Workers near Uaxactun build a road. One leftover goes NW,W and starts clearing a swamp. Grasslands will make the cities productive and give a better kill zone.

Now that we have wines connected, time to check happiness. Lux turned down to 20%. I also get to put a couple scientists back to work.
Leipzig MM to get +2 food. We want it at size 7 before we go to monarchy.
Switch Konigsberg to courthouse. It’s way too corrupt.
Curr 3 – S,SW
Cat and 2 swords near Cuello – NE,N
Redlined sword – N,NE,NE
Warrior near Uaxacutun – E,E,fort. We’ll need MP when yhose horses move on.
3 Workers on hill – road
Worker – SE,irrigate near Stuggart
Sword Near Leipzig – NE,NE,N
Horse near Bonn moves to S of Cuello
Bremen switch to Harbor. That’s what it needs.
3 workers near Bonn – E,E,N
Workers in Salzburg – N,N,N
Swordsman near Salzburg – N,N,N
Sword near Cuello – N,N,NE
Other Sword near Cuello – N
Horse and warrior fortify in Uaxacutun.

IBT - Quiringua ends resistance, starves to size 4
Munich Archer -> Worker
Jav moves onto mountain near Uaxactun. Sneak attack?
Zulu and Inca building Knights Templar

90 BC – Whip Quiringua library (2 pop), hire 2 ent to starve down to 1
Redlined Sword near Uaxactun – E, fort
Elite Sword near Cologne – N,E,E
Sword near Cologne – N,E,fort
Cat near Cologne – N,W,fort
Sword on road – N,N,W to Cologne
Sword near Cuello – NE,N,N
Sword off road – NW
Cuello workers – N,NE,stop under sword for protection from sneak attack
Horse near Cuello goes to Cologne
Worker near Bremen – SW,S,S
3 workers near Salzburg – N,mine
Sword near Bonn – N,N,N
2 workers near Stuggart – W,W
worker near Stuggart – E
4 workers near Uaxactun – NW,W,clear swamp
Curragh 3 – SE,S
Archer fortifies in Munich
Turn Sci to 50%

IBT - A line of Javs is tryiong to bet through our choke. They aren’t sneak attacking yet.
Berlin Harbor -> Marketplace
Hamburg Settler -> Sword
Quiringua starves to pop 1, builds library -> Courthouse
Nuremburg Spear -> Harbor

70 BC - 2 workers near Munich – irrigate
Spear in Nuremburg – fortify as MP
Curr3 – E,S
Cologne horse – fort
Cologne sword – N to act as lookout
Uaxactun elite sword – NW onto mountain to block javs
Sword near Cuello – N,N,N
2 workers near Cuello – N,N,clear swamp
Sword near Cologne – NE,fort to block javs
Sword near Bonn – NE,NE,E
Worker near Bonn – S,S,S
Hamburg Settler (Hamburgers) – NE,N,N
Settlers on hill near Hannover – NE
Settler near Hannover – irrigate
MM Hannover from fish to hill for faster harbor.
Worker near Stuggart – road

IBT - Mayan units try to go around out blockade
Munich worker -> Library. We need more culture

50 BC - Hamburgers – NE,N,N
Curragh 3 – SE,S
Elite Sword Fort on mountain near Uaxactun
Sword near Cologne – NE
Cologne Spear – N
Lone sword in swamp – fort
Worker near Cuello – E
Sword near Salzburg – N,N,N
3 workers near Bermen – NE,N,N
Workers near Leibzig – SE,S
Other worker on plains – irrigate
Munich worker – E,cut forest
Workers near Hannover – irrigate, one starts road

IBT - Stuggart Galley -> Harbor
MM Stuggart for +2 food
Wait! Stuggart has a settler?

30 BC - Stuggart Settler enters galley, galley moves E,N,N
Switch Leibzig to FP. Why didn’t I realize this earlier?
2 Hannover workers finish the road, one boards the galley, one moves SE
Curr 3 – E,E
Spearman and sword near Cologne fortify
Sword near Cuello – NE,N,N
Workers near Munich road and mine
3 workers in Cuello – N,NE,N
Worker near Cuello – road

IBT - Quiringua’s borders expand. It is now free of cultural overlap.

10 BC - Set Sci to 40% L
5 workers near Uaxactun move W,W,N to mountain north of Cologne.
Hamburgers – NE,N,NE
Galley – SE,S,stop
Curragh 3 – E,S
Sword near Cologne – W,NW
RG1,3,and companion – N,clear swamp
Worker near Stuggart – N
Worker near Hannover – cut forest
Workers near Hannover – S

IBT – Mayan units veer off, declining to attack a fortified sword in the mountains.
Hannover Harbor -> Courthouse
Inca builsing Sistine Chapel

10 AD - Workers on mountain near Cologne start fortress. Yes, forts aren’t that useful, but this looks like a good place for one to minimize the risk of Maya occupying the mountains above Cologne
Hamburgers – NW,W,SW
Workers near Munich build road
Workers near Munich – W,W,W
Workers near Stuggart – Cut forest
Worker near Hannover – Cut forest
Galley – E,E,E, disembark worker into Heidelberg
Curr 3 – E,E

IBT - Frankfurt Harbor -> Sword
MM Frankfurt onto water for +1 trade

30 AD - RG1 – N
4 other workers near Cologne – NE,N
Hamburgers – E,E,E
Workers near Hamburg – SW,S
Workers near Berlin – NW,cut (looking for BG)
Worker near Munich – Mine
Galley – N,N,N,disembark settler to east
Heidelberg worker – S
Curr 3 – E,S
Scientist in Hannover, switch production to MP archer
MM Berlin, Leipzig, Hannover so Leipzig won’t riot

IBT - Cologne Harbor -> Barracks (Cheap, and units gotta heal somewhere.)
Inca get Sun Tzu. Maya get Knights Templar. Oops.

50 AD - Lux back to 30% for Belin and Konigsburg
3 Workers near Munich mine
Workers near Stuggart and Hannover irrigate
RG1 – road
Workers near Uaxactun – build fortress
Hamburgers – SE,S, I’ll leave the final decision to somebody else.
Worker near Heidelberg – road
Curragh 3 – E,S
Rogue Settler – NE
Galley – W,W,W

Notes - I planned to found new cities where indicated on the map. The one near Piedas Negras is meant to build a library, stealing a tile from its neighbor and allowing swords to rush the city the same turn we declare war. The other one is just meant as a good city space sometime in the future once we connect it and get monarchy. All the resources on the continent are taken, so we‘ve got to take what we can get.
-The galley should shuttle a couple defenders for the new city, then try to find the route the Zulu came over on. It’ll be a suicide route for us, since they only got across with the lighthouse. I should have built more galleys, but there are so many things that need building. Perhaps the Munich library can be switched.
-What to do about the Knights Templar? Do we dare start another war? Would we rather ally with the Maya against the Inca this time (if possible) rather than face a bunch of crusaders? I actually like the idea of hitting the Inca becasue they're so far away and can't defend their colonies, as long as we can make sure the Maya don't join in on the wrong side. Maybe we should try trading something with the Maya to reduce the change of their attacking. But what? Would gifting them a couple gpt at the start of the war make it harder for the Inca to bribe them?
-Please maintain the wall of swords. As long as it holds no advanced units can reinforce the Mayan colonies, leaving them vulnerable. At war, retreat to the mountains and splat anything that tries to pass. The ZOC from the forts might help once they’re completed.
-Be sure not to let the Maya have a road to their colonies. Pillage roads in our territory if necessary to cut them off.
-Eventually I suggest that we found a sacrificial city on the bananas that lie between us and the Maya. Then road the jungle to the north, and we can make a desperate rush for the Mayan iron to knock it out at the start of a future war. A knight or two would be ideal for this if we ever get them. The city could then be abandoned if necessary. I know it looks like a flip risk, but with a library, it wouldn’t have too much border overlap.
-I’ve started a number of civilian builds. Yes, this could be unwise, but we really need to keep up our economy if we aren’t going to be at constant war. That market in Berlin has to be a good idea at least. Aqueducts might be a good idea soon in certain cities. In any case, feel free to cancel my build orders. Old builder habits die hard.
-I’ve started the FP in Leipzig. I’m not quite clear on the Vanilla vs. Conquests corruption models, but I think that the first priority is to get the FP built anywhere you can to increase our OCN. The palace could always be moved later if convenient.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/150_BC.jpg

I got it, thanks for the detailed notes you gave. :) I assume we will be buying techs from now on, and not researching them?

Turn 0 - 50 AD
Found Dortmund in place. Start a library for cheap culture.
Rush a temple in Uaxactun. It cost 1 population, but was under heavy cultural pressure.

IBT: Hamburg: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Heidelburg: Worker -> Worker
Uaxactun: Library -> Harbor
Bonn: Spear -> Harbor

Turn 1 - 70 AD
A Mayan city (Pierdas Negras) expanded borders, so we can't settle the second city there, so I move the settler to a better location.

IBT: Berlin: Market -> Sword

Turn 2 - 90 AD
Found Brandenburg, production to Library.
Set out a suicide curragh.

IBT: Munich: Library -> Aqueduct
Nuremburg: Horse -> Sword
Hannover: Archer -> Archer
Our curragh dies.

Turn 3 - 110 AD
Nothing.

Turn 4 - 130 AD
Move units to swordsmen wall.

IBT: Berlin: Sword -> Sword

Turn 5 - 150 AD
Galleys continues east around our coast to get to suicide spot.

IBT: Frankfurt: Sword -> Sword

Turn 6 - 170 AD
We connect the Gems, and turn down luxury to 20%, Monarchy in 4.

IBT: Hamburg: Sword -> Sword

Turn 7 - 190 AD
Luxury back to 30% as 2 important cities grow.

Turn 8 - 210 AD
Monarchy is in 1, -23 gpt of our 47 gold.

IBT: Mayans and Zulu are at war!
We get Monarchy and revolt. 9 turn Anarchy. :( :( :(

Turn 9 - 230 AD
Nothing.

Notes: We have 7 turns of anarchy left. Then, I would try to get Feudalism, upgrade our swords, and attack the Mayans. The galley is close to the coast in the east for a suicide run.

9 turn Anarchy
The worse RNG case I've seen with non-religious civs.We can stop research from now but i like LK's idea on self research in higher level.The trading price is bloody,stinky,ridiculous high for human players and constant demands make money dangerous.

I've never seen anything longer than 7.

Y'all should check your .ini file for a line like

PleaseF*ckMeRepeatedly=1

Once we get the gems city hooked up things won't be so bad. Of course the next hurdle is whether or not we have saltpeter ...

A few things to consider:

-Once those workers finish roading the swamp, the Maya will have access to the horses near Piedas Negras, probably letting them build knights. They will also be able to build pikes/MDI in P-N. Do we really want to do this? We don't want to trade with the Maya becasue we're going to attack them, and we can't trade with the Inca because the route will break as soon as we declare on the Maya.

-A couple cities are going to starve before the Anarchy ends. Just let them go into civil disorder a few times to save food.

-The Maya are in Feudalism. This means that a quick strike at a bunch of units at the start of the war could run up their war weariness. Pillaging horsemen are also an option. It also means that if we park a stack outside a large city and start killing things, they'll probably kill off a bunch of pop rushing a defender.

Should we give the next guy (plarq, I think) some extra turns? Say 15 instead of 10? Playing 10 turns of which 7 are anarchy doesn't sound like much fun.

No word from plarq for three days. Tim, can you take over?

I won't play until this evening, so if he doesn't respond before then, I'll play.

I'll take this,sorry team,I didn't notice

Preturn:Seems bad,we cannot keep Frankfurt size 6 unless rioting.Anarchy in 7t.We have average military against Inca,figure that(Inca is way advanced,so we can simply extort them.)
Check shows Mayans and Zulus have Knights(Mayans have its own horse),Incans only got horses.Imagine,but I cannot prevent Incans buying Mayans into a war.
Turn 1:Nothing,galley east.
IBT:Maya want to expand peace,ok.Even I set "always negotiate deals" OFF.Quirigua Deposes,lose 2 horses 1 warrior.Bad RNG luck!Now Dortmund is in danger of flips.Whole nation riots.
Turn 2:Only Inca is target that we can soften.
IBT:Zulu ships cross Ocean!Incans start Leo's(That late?).
Turn 3:Zulus doesn't have Magnetism(Galley move 4).Gem online.I was tempted to sell only iron to Inca,take Theology,and research PP in min,do we?
Zulu doesn't have Theology,which is a chance for a 2fer1.

AFAIK,Incans have Astronomy(Copernius),so trade route cannot be cut off easily by Mayans.And long riot will destroy city improvements,shall we starve down Berlin and Frankfurt a bit?

Quirigua Deposes,lose 2 horses 1 warrior.Bad RNG luck!Now Dortmund is in danger of flips.

With one more unit would we have been safe from flips (4 x the population of Quiringa)?

Or is it more complicated than that?

Mapstat shows needed garrison is 70+,imagine. :wow:

Interesting choice of acronym there.

:lol: :lol:

Mapstat shows needed garrison is 70+,imagine.

Maybe not such a bad RNG result then. :sad:

To answer your question about anarchy, yes, we had planned to starve cities occasionally to prevent 9-turn anarchy.

OK,I'll trade iron to Inca to fill the tech hole.
Starve berlin and Frankfurt,we have extra workers.

Incans:I buy Theology,19g and a ROP by our iron.The RoP is a shield against DoW.He turns Polite.Turns out that Maya lacks Education.Theology and 3g get us Engineering from Zulu.Left us a handy sum of 100g.Start min run on Printing Press.Note:we have extra gems,and Mayans are trading theirs to Incans,so it'll be a potential gem trade with Inca or Zulu sometime in the future.
For the Saltpeter thing,I wonder if they actually researched Gunpowder?
IBT:Zulu and Maya sails.Frankfurt reduced in size.
Turn 4:300AD,Riot all cities using all extra citizen as scientists,PP in 15t. :wow: Remembering that rioting city cannot be adding workers(the "Calcutta Blackhole" exploit which is banned in GOTM recently).I forget the plan of "more rioters".
Suicidal Galley Reach "the other" continent,we see Ottoman,he's still ancient,lack Currency!Wow!I sell Currency to him for 18g,he won't give up Republic.As I prayed many times,he got Feudalism as freebie :crazyeye: and I use two tech to obtain it.
From F3,we see Mayans fought Zulu before,Zulu fought American and Japan before.
IBT: Whole nation riot.Zulu archer approach Heidelberg,Mayans start Leo's(That late?)
Turn 5:Nothing but rioting.
IBT: Finally...I'd rather use Monarchy,I don't want to see another 9 turn Anarchy,I'm scared.But I'm tempted to use Feudalism,the 5 unit support is we needed most.

Turn 6:Zulu captured Kyoto with 2 wonders(ToA and SoZ) :wow:
IBT:Berlin Sword->Archer,Hannover Warrior->Court,Stuttgart Harbor->Lib.
Turn 7:See redlined Zulu Knight in Japan front.Our unit support is bad.I sell granary in Berlin.
IBT:Frankfurt Sword->Court,Nuremburg Sword->Lib.
Turn 8:Meet Japan,lacks Theology and Engineering,no trade.
IBT:Nothing.
Turn 9:Ottoman has Chivalry.Spot American Border.
IBT:Nothing.
Turn 10:Abe pops out his head,Up Republic and Chivalry.
The end result is 360AD.Our tech phase is better(Going to obtain a monopoly tech),but we lose our only iron,will obtain Education next time :crazyeye:
Berlin is prebuilding for University,maybe it's too risky.Leipzig will complete FP with deficit food.
Our income in pathetic and units are way too much.Will we do another point sticky research?We can get Chivalry from Ottoman.PP gambit is on.
Change builds if you like,Tim.
Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_360AD.SAV)

Got it. I'll either play tonight or tomorrow.

I will be away from the 13th to the 24th. Please autoskip me if I come up.

Sorry I haven't been able to post recently. I'm getting over the flu and my head hurts too much to think straight. I've looked at the latest save and don't have much to say except that we should probably be building more units. We've got to declare war again soon before the Maya pull even farther ahead.

Incans are running away, but import iron from ours. :D
Mayans are strong,but down at least 2 tech of Inca.
Zulu is strong but tech level with Maya.
We don't want Incans to make territory gain against Maya anytime,especially for the GL(Chichen Itza) and iron (Also in Chichen Itza).

Any Progress Tim?

I'll finish tonight.

360(0)-Somehow we got on turn 151
Leipzig doesn't have to starve this turn
Give Konigsberg some more food
Fire specialist in Hannover
Fire specialist in Brandenburg, switch to worker
Wake up workers
Unsure about Sistine in Berlin, but I can switch it to temple

IBT-Leipzig FP->library
Konigsberg court->library
Bonn settler->court
America starts Sistine

370(1)-zzz

IBT-Inca declare war on Maya

380(2)-Sell theology to Ottomans for chivalry, 10gpt, 16g
Sell gems to Inca for 10gpt, 13g
kick science up a couple notches to get printing press in 7
Not comfortable about Sistine being available long enough, so switch Berlin to temple

IBT-Berlin temple->horse
Bremen harbor->library (want the whale, more water)
I guess I was right about Sistine, Cuzco builds it
Maya starts Leo's

390(3)-zzz

IBT-Inca start Smith's :eek:

400(4)-zzz

IBT-Leipzig library->horse

410(5)-zzz

IBT-Berlin horse->horse
Konigsberg library->temple
Nuremberg library->harbor
Cuello settler->trebuchet (feel free to change)
Salzburg library->court

420(6)-Found New Berlin, start on library
Meet Rome, they're down theology, up republic, have 1g

IBT-Stuttgart library->rax

430(7)-Found New Leipzig, start on library

IBT-Berlin horse->horse
Leipzig horse->warrior (for MP)
Cologne rax->court
Corihuayrachina builds Leo's

440(8)-zzz

IBT-learn printing press (a monopoly)
Leipzig warrior->warrior
Munich aqueduct->horse
Zulu start Bach's

450(9)-I'll stop here on an even date and let the next player handle the trades

Notes: Our peace deal with Maya ends next turn, if you want to do something there
Clearly Inca know astronomy, banking, and economics
Zulu seem to have a music theory monopoly
Maya have muskets, I suspect both Inca and Zulu know gunpowder
Maya and Inca don't know other continent other than Zulu; if you don't take advantage of selling the communications, Zulu will
You may want to save money for upgrades
Maya have captured Vitcos from Inca
Ottomans and America have some extra gpt

I think we'll punish Maya, but don't let Inca get iron.

After reading the save,our gems are dangerous if we declare on Maya,and if we turn "always renegotiate deal" OFF in preference,Smoke won't jump out for another 20 turns peace deal,since last peace is straight.And don't build warriors in our core,we have no money to upgrade them.I want to delay the chance to sell communication,I don't want AI(Esp. Inca) research skyrocket.

EDIT:shut off research,any time we want Inv,we can buy it from Maya using all our gpt,and boot him to declare war.

Inca know astronomy, so as long as they have a harbor the route should be safe (can't remember if they do, however). The warriors were only there as MPs to allow other units to get to the front. If you don't want to sell communications, make sure you don't sell printing press. And I agree with shutting off research; it's only on because I didn't bother turning it off.

Didn't get any email notifications for this thread and was wondering what happened. Nice job on the tech trading plarq and tim. Will play tonight.

I took a quick look at the save and have these questions:

Re: war: I don't know how strong the Mayans are in the peninsula. Is the goal purely to get a free tech by dealing with the Maya and then booting? Our army is weak and we won't have iron for four turns. On the other hand I can probably hold the Mayans off for four turns, then upgrade/prebuild some knights.

Should I trade Printing Press around?

Some cities are in flip danger and have units stationed next to them. If they do flip, am I supposed to declare war and retake the city? Or just slink off?

I missed building the FP in Liepzig. Are we going to jump the palace when we get a leader?

Tonight I'll view some of the previous saves and read the play logs more carefully.

If we can,we should trade Incans PP and Contacts for all his techs and money.
We can do a 2fer between Astro-Music.Even 3fer if Gunpowder.Communication is agreat deal of money.

I'll be gone until a week from Monday.

I played through 520. We got a bunch of techs, including Gunpowder from the Mayans for free as they declared war when I tried to boot.

But the Mayans are really tough. Dortmund had to be abandoned as did New Berlin.
Now they're rooting around Cologne. I just hope they'll talk to me before they do any real damage.

They've done real damage,until you raze several Mayan cities.But keep the Quirigua.

Do we lose gems in Heidelberg?one and cities riot,two and reputation is shot.

No, we are fine in Heidelberg. I waited till the spear moved off, and he wandered north. We've also kept that city guarded by a single warrior.

I won't be razing any Mayan cities soon, unless someone mods the save file to give me a few modern armor.

Modern Armor,is it tasty?FWIW,I'd prefer Nuke and Cavs.

Preflight:

Sci to zero, making 69 per turn. That's half a knight, or two MI's. I switch some warrior/horse builds to prebuilds for longbowmen.

IBT: Mayans move off our gems.

460: Finish clearing the swap north of New Berlin. Time for some deals. I sniff around and find:

- Everyone except Japan has Republic.
- Mayans and Inca have Inv and Edu.
- Zulu have Inv and Edu, but America has only Edu.
- Ottomans are up only Rep on us, and have some money. Rome has 35 bucks and Japan is hopeless.

Since the other continent is not as advanced, I trade PP to America for Inv straight up (they have no cash). Ottomans will give lots of money for Inv or PP; I choose Inv in case they contact someone on our continent. I give them 50 to make them Polite, then get it right back along with 37 of their original money and 12 per turn.

What about Edu and Gunpowder (Maya, Inca, Zulu)? I'd like to deal with the Zulu as much as possible. They want around 40/ for either tech, which is much cheaper than self-researching.

All our gold (81 per turn) gets us Gunpowder from the Mayans. Then I boot and ... yes! They declare! Free Funpowder! I'm glad to find that Konigsberg is built on saltpeter.

Then I give the Zulu 37/ and Printing Press for Edu. I've kept our Printing Press monopoly on our continent as well as the communications.

The first order of business is to run like hell until we get some decent units. The workers near Heidelberg scurry to safety, as do the workers who

War happiness allows me to lower lux to 10. Some courthouses aren't necessary and I assume they are prebuilds. Switch Frankfurt to musket. Switch Bonn to market. Switch Hamburg's aqueduct to ... musket. The musket builds waste a few shields.

IBT: Mayan longbowman kills sword in Dortmund. Dortmund is not going to last long. Crusader and MI approach the Wall Of Swordsmen.

470: Two muskets built, which of course are rushed to the front. I lose a sword killing the Crusader, and the elite sword who kills him will probably die too.

IBT: Yes, the sword dies, and lots of other units come pouring down. Dortmund is down to its last horse.

480: Berlin produces musket. Konigsberg gets a temple and goes for a treb.

I abandon Dortmund; the wounded horse runs away. Will get iron back next turn.

IBT: Lots and lots of Mayans come down from the north. Just what are the Inca doing anyway? Well, one thing they're doing is giving us our iron back.

490: I change some builds to knights and upgrade two horses, one of them in Cologne.

IBT: A 10-stack next to New Berlin. Ouch. Mostly offensive units but there is a musket.

500: Get lucky against the musket -- hit him with a catapult and finish him off
with a knight, who redlines.

My sword-on-MI attacks aren't so hot, but I do trim the stack down to 6.
I leave a worker out as bait, and pull the Uaxactun and Cologne garrisons
into New Berlin. A horse upgrades in Cologne.

IBT: Slaughter in New Berlin: It will have to be abandoned.
Zulu blackmail 19, then celebrate by destroying Japan.

510: Konigsberg treb -> treb.

14 Mayans next to New Berlin, which holds a redlined sword and a catapult.
I abandon New Berlin and run away to Cologne.

War happiness goes away. Lux to 10.

IBT: More Mayans move around. Seven next to Cologne (two of them muskets).

Incans build Copernicus.

520: One crusader approaches Uaxactun. I go after him with two knights, lose one, and redline the other, but can put just one hit on him.

I check to see if we can sell contacts, but it's too late. That was my bad; I had assumed that it was important to keep the two continents separate, but I did notice when trading in 460 that the Zulu did not lack contacts. I should have sold contacts to Inca. (No one else had money so it's not like we lost that much.)

IBT: The Mayans dial up and offer peace! Oh yes yes yes yes yes yes yes but how about you give me some money. We get 60.

530: Hannover aque -> temple. Stutt riots and needs a temple if it is to grow beyond six. Berlin knight -> univ.

Sci to 30, switch builds for research.

Look into reselling resources to Inca. They'll trade Chem for Iron and Salt.
Problem is that there's not much to do with it. Zulu have all techs on us, but
America, Ottomans, and Romans are all backwards -- we are one to three techs up on them.
The Mayans are down Printing Press and up Republic. They would give only 100 for PP.

IBT: The Mayans pound on Ica (the city northwest of Cologne) eight or so times, and kill five spears. It will fall soon.

540: Not much. I set up a block northwest of New Liepzig.

IBT: Ica falls. The Mayans in our territory start heading north.

550: Munich knight -> knight. Salz harbor -> temple. Shuffle units around for MP.

A map:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_550_AD.JPG

The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_550_AD.SAV)

Well,PP monopoly didn't help us to get out of tech hole,if Inca could carry on research.Incans can fight a little to help us trimming Maya.On the other continent,Zulu sold many contacts and become stinky rich,which is dangerous as they elimated Japan.

Got it. I'll proabaly have something to report tomorrow, and everything finished saturday.

Ok, after a few turns, I've got a feel for what's going on. The Maya are up to their old tricks and I've put The Wall back in place to keep them from overrunning more Incan cities. Much as I'd love to attack Quiringua again, we just don't have enough troops yet to dael with those stacks. I'll probably spend my turns getting more troops to the front so the next guy can boot/declare and make a massacare of the Mayan stack.

p.s. Only two trebuchets? Artillery are a godsend against those muskets. A good treb or cannon stack can be the difference between an elite MDI and a dead one. I'll build a few more.

p.p.s. What really excites me is what will happen when the Inca get cavalry. We'll have a limited window to grab Chichen Itza and whatever else we can before the Maya crumble for good. Then we either duke it out (eek!) or make a killing selling them iron when the get steam power.

550 AD

Preflight –
Sell Education to Honest Abe for 59 g + 18 gpt. This looks like a no-brainer, since we need all the gpt we can get.
Move a sword into the gap to block those stacks near Cologne. Why not give them the AI runaround?
Frankfurt needs a harbor. Leipzig needs a market. These will be the next builds
Turn science up to 50% because of the gpt.
Note that if we turned lux up we could free up a lot of MP.

IBT - Nuremburg Knight -> harbor
Brandenburg warrior -> library, put scientist on grassland for growth

560 AD - Nuremberg Knight E,E,E,NE,NE,NE
Workers near Heidelberg – road
Brandenberg warrior fortify
Galley – N,N,N
Workers in mountains – NE,N,N, draining the swamo is more important than mining
2 workers SE of Cologne – N into swamp\
Worker near New Leipzig – SW, mine
Swamp sword – fortify
Upgrade Cologne cat to treb. We never know when war will break out.
Change Munich production knight to treb. We really need more trebs.
Sword near Uaxactun goes to Cologne. I want to upgrade him.
Uaxactun worker NW,NW,NW on a quest for fresh water
Workers near Salzburg start mining mountain

Set Sci to 40%, lux to 30
Move a few MP and scientintists to more productive employment. We need more troops at the front, not cooling their heels in safe cities.

IBT - Frankfurt Musketman -> Aqueduct

570 AD - Upgrade Cologne swordsman to MDI. He’s going to be fighting muskets, after all.
Uaxactun swode goes into fort just to keep the Mayans from occupying it.
Galley N,N,N
Several workers clear wetland, one goes north into Mayan territory to fetch water.
Two Cuello knights and a musket go to block the Mayan column. We Can’t have them taking more Incan cities. We aren’t ready to ambush, though.
Knight near Bonn – NE,NE,NE,NE,N,N
Frankfurt Musketeer SE,SE,E
Berlin sword is wandering. Got to figure out where he goes.
Munich knight (former horse) N,N,N,N,N,N
Bunch of Cologne mountain workers mine. Can’t move them because they’re part of the wall.

IBT - Maya whine about the worker, but can’t do anything. Troops turn around, hopefully to become Inca fodder.
Hamburg Musket -> MDI What’s with more muskets than trebs? What are we going to do with them? Trebs and MDI are a better defense.
Stuttgart temple -> treb.
10 gpt from Ottomans expires. Can’t make another deal, so I just turn down science to 30%

580 AD - Worker in Maya territory irrigates.
Upgrade the fort sword to MDI. Rotate Cologne’s fresh MDI into the fort. Why have got laying around where it can be extorted?
Musket near Cologne – W, still part of the wall
Hamburg warrior to Konigsburg, which needs the MP worse.
What was I smoking? Konig Horse back to Hamburg to cover for lhe lack of MP.
Hamburg musket N,N,N
Musket near Leipzig NE,NE,NE
Former Berlin swordsman is now NE of Leipzig. He’ll go to the front.
Knight near Bonn now north of Cuello.
Bremen Knight to New Leipzig. I’ll park something there within the next 7 turns, and it’ll be less valuable than a knight.
Workers near Heidelberg, NW
Galley N,N,E

IBT - Leipzig Knight -> University
Bonn market -> terb

590 AD - Science to 20% because of expired deals
Knight from Leipzig moves to SW of Salzburg
Sword near Leipzig to Bonn for MP
Musket near Konigsberg – N,N,N
Musket near Bremen – N,N,W
Workers near Heidelberg – road
Fortify knights in Cologne and New Leipzig
Move Musket to NW of Cologne as part of the wall.
Knight near Cuello fortifies in fort near Uaxacutun
Galley – E,E,S

IBT - Mayan longbow attacks Nasca
Incan longbow kills Mayan longbow. Another one attacks Quiringua. If he succeeds, I’ll let some troops through to take it back.
Berlin University -> MDI
Konigsburg University -> treb
Nuremburg treb -> galley

600 AD - Treb from Munich to Hamburg
Move a bunch of workers to another swamp to drain
Two musketeers continue their trek north
Knight near Salzburg moves to W of New Leibzig
Sword fortifies in Bonn
Workers mine grass near Heidelberg
Worker irrigates floodplains near Brandenburg
Galley S,S,S

IBT - Inca are building Shakespeare

610 AD - Hamburg treb – N,N,N
Knight near New Leipzig closes hole in wall that was opened when workers moved.
Musketeers near Cuello move toward forts
Galley S,SE,S
Change Stuttgart production to MDI

IBT - Nuremburg harbor -> aqueduct

620 AD - Galley S,S,S
Workers near Heidelburg mine hill
Irrigating worker finishes, leaves Mayan territory
Move a knight to open the wall near Uaxacutun for an ambush
Treb near Bonn NE,NE,N
Give Brandenburg a scientins to prevent riot

IBT - Zulus raze Mayapan
Berlin MDI -> knight
Hamburg MDI -> settler
Konigsburg treb -> MDI
Hannover temple -> treb

630 AD - Switch Bonn to settler because it doesn’t Have much growth potential
Worker irrigates bananas
Galley S,S,SW
Konigsberg treb to Salzburg
Other treb near Salzburg N,N,N
Fortify muskets in mountain forts
Hamburg MDI to Munich to board galley when it finishes
Rush Heidelburg courthouse and turn science to 10% It looks like a good investment at this distance.
Berlin MDI NE,NE,E
Workers near New Leibzig NE,N,N, to help with irrigation

IBT - Maya still aren’t falling into my trap. What’s taking so long?
Heidelberg courthouse -> settler
Stuttgart MDI -> treb
Bonn Settler -> treb
MM Bonn for faster growth

640 AD - Salzburg treb to Cuello, other to Cologne
Munich MDI waits for galley
Other MDI to Munich
Workers near Salzburg mine another mountain
Bonn Settler S,S,S
Stuttgart MDI - N,N,N
Workers irrigate 3 squares of former swamp. Uaxacutun MM to produce on irrigated grass.
Galley – S,S,S

IBT - Inca demand gems. I cave because we can’t really sell the gems productively and I don’t want to start a war on the last turn. I’m very tempted to refuse, and fight the Inca instead but I don’t know how you guys would respond.
Munich galley -> knight (only because we can’t afford too much more unit support so we should go for quality)

650 AD - Load 2 MDI onto Munich galley, move galley SE,SE,E
Cuello treb to New Leipzig
Settler E,E,E
Workers start draining another swamp to deprive invaders of cover
Move a warrior form Leipzig to Hamburg, move a horse form Hamburg to Bremen to stop a riot.
MDI near Hannover moves to Stuttgart to wait for an empty galley
Exploring galley S,S,S

Comments:
- The Mayans still have 7 turns of peace left. They show no sign of sending a stack through the hole.
- The Wall has a deliberate hole to funnel the Mayan invasion force into a convenient location. I was hoping that they’d send a stack through to beat up on the Incan colonies, then declare when we try to boot them, and promptly get shredded.
- We have a couple more trebs to play with. Hopefully they can shake up the muskets in a Mayan stack badly enough that we can get at the offensive units.
- The Maya-Zulu war has resulted in a few razed cities. I’m building some settlers to take advantage.
- I’m also shipping some MDI to Brandenburg so we can hit the Maya in the rear when the war starts. Those small cities are probably wide open.
- The Maya are republic. If they redeclare on us before the 20-turn peace expires, they’ll have rollover WW.
- We’re paying serious unit support. We need to war again soon to get more cities.
- I noticed we have a lot of knights. I like MDI for certain situations, mainly where we’ll be facing spearmen in towns (the western wastes), or where we’ll be counterattacking large stacks and need quantity over quality (the border). So I built some.
- We’re having trading trouble. Nobody has much spare gold to pay for our tech, and we can’t trade gems to the other continent. The Inca are apparently out of gpt.
- I caved and gave the Inca gems. Actually I wouldn’t really mind an Incan war because they lack iron and saltpeter and would have to cross Mayaland to get to us. And the Maya might actually pay us for an alliance. But I didn’t want to rock the boat so close to the end of my turns. Of course now we’ll take a rep hit if we declare on them.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/BOOT!.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Wasteland.jpg

Got it.Seems like a great relief from tragic lose in Rat03.

Wait for a couple of hours.I'm nearly ready.

Check:Techs:Inca(Free Artistry) and Zulu(Democracy),and Zulu don't have Magnetism.We'll obtain MT,with min sci and break even?It's hell we have excess units without war.
IBT:Zulu approaches.For Tech things.We can do another 3fer1.Buy Banking from Incans?But that means trading our Iron and Salt away again!
T1:Incan and Zulu are advanced,American has Astro and Rome has Chem.I'd trade Iron and Salt to get Incan's Bank.I did that.Trade to American and Rome.Get Chem and Astro.No one has Metalurgy or Physics,seems AI likes dead-end techs.Start min on Metal.
IBT:Konigberg a Reg MDI?I didn't notice.
T2:Inca got Physics today.
T3:Assemble forces to take Maya Salt and Iron.Incan LBs are going to smack Quirigua.
T4:Shuffle Units
IBT:Abe want 42g,I said damned and he don't dare to declare.Abe joined Inca against Maya
T6:I'm tempted to boot Inca.I'm sending 3 goods to him.I wait.Zulu get Physics too.
IBT:Incan lose another city.I don't dare to boot Inca,that may cripple him and create a monster Maya.
T7:I refound Dortmund between Heidelburg and Brandenberg.Declare on Maya!God,Maya have good defence in his southern cities.Forgot he has Saltpeter down there.
T8:Strike Quirigua,Knight kill Musket and Spear,retreated by Musket no loss.
T9:Lose one Knight in Quirugua.
T10:Still no one has Metallurgy.Take Quirigua,two resistors.
Summary:We can settle on Saltpeter,and capture or raze Piedras Negras.Heidelburg workers connect Dortmund.And Salt is home then. :)
Use Mountain to attack Piedras Negras.Then Knights and Trebs will elimate Mayan colony.Use workers in Northern Cologne to connect Quiragua,for the wine.After some actions we make peace with Maya,and live with a larger empire I hope.
Keep Incan and Mayan fighting happily,keep balance,watch out Zulu,we'll need Panzers to beet them.
SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD750AD.SAV)

Old Problem of Chinese system,can't display Mayan city names correctly.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Empire_Today.jpg

P.S:Brandenberg gonna riot.Fix that.Settler sleep in the city.
Roster:
Plarq(Played)
Timbentley(Up)
Ginger Ale(Insert here)
Floydmcw
Gato Loco

:bump:
Is there anybody here?

Well, I'm here, I was just taking some time to look at the save. I'd say the Maya have reached the breaking point. The fact that no SoD has come to ravage our lands makes me think that they threw their units away attacking the Inca. If nothing scary shows up during Tim's turns, I think we can trash them for good this time. Then once we have MT, cannons and cavalry should be enough to take on the Inca, provided they don't get access to saltpeter once we stop selling it to them. I'm optimistic about us being able to dominate our home continent. The Zulu will be another thing entirely, of course.

The decision to sell our strategic resources to the Inca during a war is a bit of a risk, but with >20 unit support I guess we won't be building much more for a while. Anything to get us cavalry sooner.

Also, we need to think about how we're going to trigger our GA. Are we going to go for panzers? That's a lot of research to do as a monarchy. If we take the Mayan capital (which is only a matter of time) we'll have TGL (scientific) and the Knights Templar (Militaristic) so building any wonder will trigger the GA. I'd be in favor of trying to trigger it in the early IA to make a final push for replaceable parts before going 0% science and just cranking out units to take out the Inca/Zulu with loads of artillery. If we wait for tanks we'll have to contend with giant stacks of Zulu bombers, which I don't want to do.

And another thing. We've got to found more junk cities in the ruined peninsula to push up our unit cap. Even a totally corrupt tundra town is worth 5 gpt (2 support + 1 uncorrupted trade + 2 from a taxman). I should have done that on my turn but I was building units to fight off the as-yet absent Killer Mayan SoD.

If we can get some MGLs...armies will give Mayans and Incans the death blow!Mayan Saltpeter lies near Inca border,so if we need to stop Incan access we must go that way(Bonapark IIRC).Do we need to leader farm Mayan cities?
If the times is right,I'd send Inf/Arty/Inf Army to pillage Zulu to death,if we can build enough ships.
GA?I'd vote ToE!Build Hoover and we'll celerbrate!

I'm back from my trip. Please slot me towards the end of the roster for now, and I'll look over the situation...thanks.

I guess you're up,Ginger Ale,Tim hasn't show up in a week.

Tim said in #115 that he would be gone till Monday the 28th. We can swap Ginger and Tim this once.

Got it, will play today.

Turn 0 - 750 AD
Change some entertainers into laborers. We still have a rep intact, good.
Kill a Mayan Longbow. They are a Republic, so if we draw out this war, we can get them into anarchy, or a non

productive state with the lux tax really high.

IBT: Ottomans sign alliance with Inca vs. Mayans, yay.
Lose a MDI.

Turn 1 - 760 AD
Kill a Mayan Crusader. Move units near Piedras Negras and Ica.

Turn 2 - 770 AD
Kill a Mayan Spear in Ica. Kill a JT in Ica. Take Ica, gain 3 slaves.
We settle on the Mayan saltpeter.
Kill a Mayan musket in Piedras Negras. Kill another musket, take Piedras Negras.

IBT: Kill a Mayan Longbow.

Turn 3 - 780 AD
Move units towards Palenque and Coba.

IBT: Incans are building Newton's, so they have ToG ... we can buy Physics for 1047 gold, our World Map, and 45 gpt, but since we only have 77 gpt, I'll wait until we get our resources back so we can trade with those as well.

Turn 4 - 790 AD
Lose 3 MDIs vs. Muskets, win with an Elite knight, still no MGL.
Stack some units by Palenque for an attack next turn.

IBT: Lose a Musket, kill a Longbow.
Zulu and Inca sign MA vs. Maya, yes!
Quirigua flips. :( We lose some culture there, and a Knight + Treb.
Ica flips, lose a musket. :(

Turn 5 - 800 AD
Recaptred Ica with an Elite MDI, but no MGL.

Turn 6 - 810 AD
Lose an Elite Knight vs. a 3/3 Musket.

IBT: Lose a sword and our Saltpeter city. :(

Turn 7 - 820 AD
We're getting thin military-wise, we need the current infrastructure builds (banks) to finish so we can get more units.
Mayans won't offer peace yet.

Turn 8 - 830 AD
Heal some knights, still no peace available.

Turn 9 - 840 AD
Maya are willing to offer peace, I say no, at least for now.

Turn 10 - 850 AD
Inca are in the Industrial Age.

Discussion:
1. We can buy Physics from the Inca for World Map, Gems, and 1277 gold. (We have 1562).
I would do this.

2. Should we resell our Iron or Saltpeter to the Incans? Keep Iron, at least, as we need to use some cash to make upgrades.

3. Let the main cities finish infrastructure, then build units.

4. Peace with the Mayans?
They will be at war with the Incans and others, and have lots of WW, but this is crucial to us, so we can build more units. We only have 5 Knights, 1 MDI, a couple of trebs, swords, horses, etc. We need more!

I guess we need sell gems to Inca.Don't sell Saltpeter,Incan may build Cavalry and murder Smoke Jaguar,we want to keep Incans advanced but weak.

GA:I've looked at the save,great fighting,but a little lack of luck.A little fault is that Knight in Dortmund and Settler in Brandenberg are still sleeping.Mayans are losing grounds.
Mayan Targets:Bonampak has Saltpeter and we can't let it roll into Incan hands,Chichen Itza is a must have for us(Gem,Iron and GL).Quirigua have Wines and worth a lot gpt.We need to Settle in Saltpeter again.
But can capture GW trigger a GA?I guess not.
Continue min on Metallurgy,buy Metallurgy and sell for Physics.

Edit:We can get Coban and Tulem from Mayans for Peace.If we capture Quirugua again,and connect horse,and we can sell horse to Mayans!We'll have a wonderful approach against Incans.

Edit 2: Don't trade with Inca,sell Gem for his 160g only.Buy Physics or Metallurgy(Metallurgy is better for resell value.Buy Metal from Romans,and Sell Metal to Zulu)We'll see if Inca has MT,if he has,then sell him nothing for war,I don't want Incans smash Maya.

Edit 3: Send Knights from Ica to Protect the Trebs near Mayan city Palenque.

We've taken, and lost, Quiringa twice now. Can we raze it next time and resettle? Yes, I know that would make Maya madder but is it worth it losing those units and the wines?

At the start of the game we listed the following play order:

floydmcw
Gato Loco
Ginger_Ale
plarq
TimBentley

But that doesn't seem to match who's gone recently. Didn't plarq go more recently than me? And we just skipped Tim.

I guess you're up floydmcw,then Gato->GA->me->Tim,let's still follow the sequences.
Razing Quirigua is not a bad idea,although we have 45cp in that city.,and we can also take the 3 cities in Mayan SE territory,better take them from peace deal.Sometime I think we must turn to Incans when war with Mayans are over.Also check overseas trade,I'd rather deal with Zulus.

The only reason I didn't raze Quiringua the first time was because there was an Incan settler nearby that would have stolen the wines. There is no such worry anymore with the Maya-Inca war going on. :evil:

Oh,if we raze Quirigua and sign peace treaty for all Mayan colonies,we can turn to Inca ASAP.

On tech issues,I recommend trade with Roman for Metal,sell to Zulu for Physics.

:bump:
Roster:
floydmcw--Up
Gato Loco--On Deck
Ginger Ale--Just played(Inserted)
Plarq
Timbentley

I'm back. One thing I happened to notice: capturing a GW with appropriate traits won't start a GA, but building any GW will start it.

Sorry to be so slow, didn't expect to be next in line. (And I haven't gotten email notifications for some reason. :confused: )

Ginger wants to make peace as we are low on units; plarq (and Gato?) wants to raze Quiringa first. Any other opinions? (I am at work and haven't seen the save yet.)

make peace to gain Salt and Iron is nice.(Maya will give up 2 cities near Salt,close to give up iron city.)

A full writeup tomorrow morning ... Ica flipped, but we got a city for peace and founded another.

Bought Metal and traded it for both Physics and ToG. We're 20-25 turns away from Military Tradition at 10-20% science, and 11 turns away from Newton's University!

Newton?!Doesn't Inca start it long ago??

Doesn't Inca start it long ago??

How would I know that? The perils of multiplayer games I guess. When I saw Berlin was on Cathedral, which it didn't need, I assumed it was a prebuild. (I searched all the turn reports and no one said anything.)

Anyway, no real harm; if the Inca get it, switch to cathedral and we've wasted a few turns. Newton's is cheap as great wonders go.

Preflight (850): Turn 200. I have a look around and use CrpMapStat, which I just downloaded. Our army looks ... thin. Super-model thin. Unhealthy thin.

So I chicken out and make peace. Mayans will give Coba (only) for peace, and I take it. (Any attempt to give them $$$ for more cities just makes my advisor pout.)

Would like to donate ica to Incans, but they won't have it. It will flip at some point.

Advance the settler in Branden to grab salt.

Now for some deals. Handy CrpMapStat says that can buy Metal from Rome and remarket to other nations, though they don't have much money.

Rome wants 30/ and all our money (1562) for Metal - 2162 total. I make it 689 gold and 70/, 2089 total.

America wants just 32 for a Physics/Metal trade. Zulu want more (~100), so I trade with America and hope Zulu has more techs ... yes, they have ToG. I pick it up for the low low price of 370 (and Metal). That brings us level with everyone except Inca. (America also has ToG.)

Trade with the Ottomans? No, they have no money.

Also note that Inca do NOT have Mil Trad. I give them gems for 158.

Convert tax collectors to scientists. Sci at 10 gives Mil Trad in 44; hope infra helps that later. Also hurry Brandenburg's library.

IBT: Maya boots. I scurry.

860: Hamburg market -> lib. Brandenburg lib -> settler.

We have our iron and salt back, so I switch builds: Liepzig -> univ, Hamburg -> lib, Munich -> knight, Hannover -> cannon.

And while I'm at it, Berlin -> Newton's in 19. We may not get it but we can
always revert to Cathedral.

Found New Berlin and grab the salt. Could give Inca salt for a world map and 380 (and then remarket the world map for more $$$). (Try to get Mag but he's having none of it.) If I don't sell the salt I need to disconnect the new source immediately, lest Inca come calling. I'll do that next turn when the Mayan worker leaves.

IBT: Zulu blackmails 47, then annoys me further by stealing the Mayan worker
on our second salt -- another turn that I can't disconnect it!

870: Irrigate south of Bremen. Huge stack of workers near Cologne get dispersed; maybe join some of them to cities when we build more units?

Would love to sell Rome salt. When someone gets Magnetism or Navigation, we can.

880: I rip up the second salt.

IBT: Rome joins in against Maya!

890: Konigs bank -> knight. Stuttgart market -> cannon (improvements don't do much for this city as it has so little money). Switch Hannover to knight.

IBT: Nothing.

900: Bonn doesn't need a courthouse so I switch it to temple; can join a worker to it next turn.

IBT: Hmm, Inca and Rome are fighting Zulu. Maybe the Inca can drill one of those Zulu cities near wines.

910: Bonn temple -> cannon. Mil Trad in 34. Newton's in 15.

IBT: Say hi to a Roman caravel.

920: Liepzig univ -> knight. Hamburg lib -> knight. Dortmund warrior -> lib.

Ica exercises its 3-6% right to flip. Lose a knight and a musket. Now Cologne
is 1% to flip each turn. I pull a knight out to leave one knight in the city.

IBT: Salzburg court -> aque. America starts Smith's Money House.

930: Rome has Navigation so we can trade the extra Salt to him. I do so now; otherwise someone could step in to steal our second salt when reconnected. We get dyes and maps.

Can't quite lower lux by 10, but I do reorg cities and get a little extra money.
Then bump sci to 20; Mil Trad in 22 at -7 per turn.

IBT: Nothing

940: Frankfurt temple -> knight. New Liepzig warrior -> knight.

IBT: Mayans and Incans move around. No fighting in awhile.

950: Konigsberg gets a ... regular knight, sorry, thought it had a rax.
There's not much else for it to build anyway. I start it on a rax.

Ouch, Incans have rifles.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_950AD.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_950AD.JPG

Suggestions for Gato Loco:
- I put Konigberg on rax, but maybe settler would be better (especially as it is about to grow to 12).
- The workers aren't doing much (except for mining mountain near Bremen). Maybe send them to the colonies via boat to Heidelburg.
- Cologne may flip (MapStat says 1% or so); we may need a city where New Berlin used to be, northeast of Cologne.

Ok, got the file, but computer problems could delay my playing for a day or two until I can get a spare AC adapter.

We need to investigate the Newton city I guess.
can we beat Zulu in the wines town?

I can't quite finish tonight, but I have a few pieces of news.

- We're at war with the Zulu. We've taken their 2 tundra cities and have knights approaching the Impi-defended wine city. Whoever goes next should take it within their first couple turns, then take their last colony and sue for peace. The Zulu don't have Nationalism or MT, so they haven't been able to resist very effectively.

- The Maya haven't tried to start anything and I've left them alone because of the Zulu war.

- If we give lots and lots of gpt (~74 or so plus gems) to the Americans we can get Magnetism and advance to the IA, and steam power if we're lucky with the free tech.

- Newton is on track to finish in 1060 AD.

- I've actually built knights this time instead of artillery and civilian buildings.

950 AD

Preflight - Lots of cities are building knights. The age of artillery is drawing near, so we should really have more cannons. How else do we ever plan to fight the Incan riflemen? But we’re sending our saltpeter to Rome so I’ll have to wait until that worker connects our second source.

IBT - Nobody attacks. The Inca are retreating a bunch of units through our territory. Lets hope they kill some Maya on their way home.

960 AD - Knight near New Berlin goes SE to check on Zulu towns
Caravel Heidelberg W,W,W,W
Worker near Dortmund starts cutting
Hurry settler at Brandenburg, since decreased unit support will quickly pay for itself.
Knight in Cuello goes to the hill overlooking Quiringua. So tempting…
Slave worker mines mountain near Bremen.
Two workers in Stuggart board the Caravel
Galley S,S,S
Worker near New Leibzig irrigates Desert
4 workers near Cuello SW,S,S
2 others mine mountains

IBT - Julu move next to Heidelberg. I start to worry.
Konigsberg Rax -> Knight (Yes, I’m a MDI fan, but with unit support what it is, 1 knight is worth more than 2 MDI).
Munich Knight -> Cannon
Heidelberg Aqueduct -> MDI
Nuremberg Market -> Cannon
Brandenburg Settler -> Settler

970 AD - A knight reaches the mountains near Zungin and sees an Impi! I quickly decide that I will declare on the Zulu as soon as I can ship some knights over. Hopefully we can get some nice tech in exchange for peace after blitzing their colonies.
Board the Munich knight into the caravel.
Move Caravel to Heidelberg and unload workers to the undeveloped hill
The knight near Quiringua decides to blow through Mayan territory to get to the colonies for the Zulu war.
More workers go to work on the mountains.
Brandenburg settler E,E
Galley S,S,W
Workers near New Berlin start mining saltpeter.
Embassy in Zimbabwe, to monitor Zulu diplomacy. They’re at peace with all their neighbors. Not sure whether that’s good or bad.



IBT - Leipzig Knight -> knight
Hannover market -> library

980 AD - Knight near Quiringua leaves Mayaland
Leipzig knight to Stuggart
Caravel back to the other coast
Knight waits in Heidleberg, upgrade the Heidelberg vet warrior to a MDI in preparation for taking on the intruding impi.
Settler W – I believe I can defend a new city here from zulu primitives.
Knight near Zungin fort on mountains
Galley SW,SW,SW

IBT - Stuttgart knight -> MDI

990 AD - Boot Zulu, they declare. I’d better be right about this
Knight kills a wounded impi near Coba, takes 2 hp
2 knights in Stuttgart board the Caravel, which ships them to Heidelberg
Heidelberg MDI redlines/retreats the invading impi. A knight finishes it off.
Trespassing knight S,S to Piedas Negras.
P-N knight to Coba to join in the Zulu-bashing
Galley W,S,SW
Another knight prepares to make the trip across Quiringuan territory
Take advantage of war happiness to turn lux to 10% and put some specialists to work to get more food.

IBT - Zulu elite warrior sacrifices life and limb to promote our knight to elite.
Inca want an alliance vs. the Maya. I refuse since it would trash our rep and distract us from the Zulu.
Americans found St. Louis on our continent. It’s on awful desert land.

1000 AD - 3 knights charge south form Heidelberg into the forest near New Zimbabwe. N.Z. is guarded by regular impis. :smoking:
An MDI follows suit to be the cleanup hitter.
Coba knight goes to reinforce our wounded elite.
Wounded elite fortifies to heal
Knight from P-N to Coba
Another knight makes the Quiringua dash
I leave our other knights in place just in case Mayans come knocking
Galley SW,SW,SW, to follow a Zulu convoy. I think they’re carrying settlers, since they didn’t reinforce any of their threatened colonies.
Worker roads BG near Dortmund
Change New Leipzig to Settler


IBT - America joins the Inca against Zululand.
A volcano erupts in Zulu territory, portending the beginning of the end of the mighty Zulu empire.

1010 AD - Our knights kill 2 impi and take New Zimbabwe. 1 resister. Move the knights on to the forest near New Ulundi
Move MDI SW toward New Zimbabwe. He’ll quell resistance.
Galley S,S,W. Zulu convoy still hasn’t unloaded. If there’s knights in that thing, the AI is either vary dumb or very crafty.
5 workers South from mountains near Bremen
Set N.Z. production to harbor. It needs one badly.
Knight near Quiringua – S
Knight in Coba joins resting elite
Settler founds New Hamburg on top of knight party. It starts building a library
New Leipzig hurries settler
Notice America has MT. We can’t get it. Maybe we can invade America after the Zulu war? Nah.
Workers near New Berlin go ahead and irrigate a floodplain


IBT - The Zulu convoy turns around. What are they up to anyway?
A maya MDI enters our territory. Please not now.
Hamburg Knight -> knight
Konigsberg knight -> knight
Hannover library -> cannon
New Leipzig settler -> courthouse

1020 AD - 3 knights attack New Ulundi. One damages a musket and retreats. One kills the musket and redlines. One kills an impi and takes the city. I set the production to library and leave the knights there to quell the one resister while they heal.
2 captured workers move NE,NE,NE out of New Ulundi
MDI into New Zimbabwe to quell.
Galley follows convoy back.
3 knights from New Hamburg to Zungin (wine town). OOOH, a veteran impi.
Quiringua knight out of Mayan territory.
New Leipzig settler N,N,NW
Hamburg and Konigsburg knights board the caravel and get a ride to Heidelberg.
Worker near Dortmund builds road.
A whole mass of settlers move toward Stuttgart.
I notice the Zulu have taken Miami on the other continent. A pity.

IBT - Zunguin archer kills our elite knight L
Munich cannon -> knight
New Zimbabwe resistance quelled

1030 AD - Our remaining two knights attack Zunguin. One dies, the other kills an impi and makes for New Hamburg, wounded. We’ll have to wait for reinforcements.
Two reinforcements from Heidelberg move near Brandenberg
Munich cannon to Stuggart
Settler founds New Konig on Bananas. Start building library
Move 3 workers into New Leipzig
Another knight moves to New Berlin
Galley hovers around New Bapedi to keep an eye open.
Mass of workers reaches Stuttgart
Workers near New Zimbabwe N,N
Worker near Dortmund mines BG
Workers near New Berlin irrigate FP and mine grassland

IBT - More Zulu ships show up but nothing is actually unloaded.
Maya are traipsing across our lands to fight the Inca who are already camped there. We have front-row seats to see our enemies kill each other.
Lone American knight is approaching Zunguin. Got to time attacks so they don’t get it.
Leipzig knight -> knight
Frankfurt Knight -> Knight
Nuremburg cannon -> cannon
Cuello library - > courthouse
Newton has 2 turns to go

1040 AD - Wounded knight fortifies in New Hamburg
Knight from New Berlin approaches N.H
2 knights relieve N.H.
Knight Leipzig to Stuttgart
Knight Frankfurt to Bonn
2 workers begin a road to connect the captured Zulu tundra to Heidelberg
3 Knights from New Ulundi make for Heidelberg
Nuremberg cannon E,E,E
Cannon and 2 workers board caravel, go to Heidelberg
3 Workers in New Leibzig N,N,N

IBT - The infamous knight-killing Zulu longbow attacks the American knight on a mountain and promptly dies.
More Maya Vs. Inca battles. We win.
Stuttgart MDI -> Settler

1050 AD - Cannon near Leipzig NE,NE,NE
2 cannons in Heidelberg E,N,N
Caravel back to Stuttgart
Knight + MDI + worker board caravel
3 knights near Heidelbarg NW
2 workers near New Berlin move NW,NW,NW toward Piedas Negras
Scientist in Brandenberg to prevent riot
2 uninjured knights from New Hamburg take the hills near Zunugin
Another knight draws within striking range
Galley hovers near the coast to keep watch

Notes:
- We have the Zulu in a bind since they’re distracted with multiple wars and don’t have riflemen yet. We’ve been at war for a few turns, so they should be willing to talk peace soon, and probably give us gpt or maybe even tech.
- I founded a city on top of the bananas so we can build a road right up to the Mayan iron. Don’t garrison anything in that city because of the flip risk. Rather station units next to it the turn before we declare war.
- Once we have a bunch of cavalry, we should throw them all at the Mayan capital. If they are defending with muskets, we have a good shot at taking it.
- Newton finishes next turn. That’s one GA trigger down.
- We can make an expensive trade for Magnetism. I recommend it since we aren’t doing much research on our own and we might be able to pull off some nice deals with the free tech.
- I would recommend that we turn off research for a while once we get RP, assuming we have rubber. With infantry and artillery, combined with lots of rush-building, we should be able to take on the whole continent. After that we’ll have to figure out how best to take on the Zulu, since I doubt we can reach domination without taking a bite out of their territory.
- Does anyone think it would be worthwhile to switch to republic once we have more unit support, or is that just asking for another 9-turn anarchy?
- We’re very backwards culturally. I’d shy away from taking (as opposed to razing) any more Mayan cities. Instead try to keep a settler or two on hand to replace razes.
- There are a bunch of Zulu ships at port. It is unknown whether they have delivered any reinforcements.


The great, over-irrigated city of Zimbabwe:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/zimbabwe.jpg

I got it. Will turn research off in a bit and build up our forces. Switch to Republic? No. If we get our whole continent, Communism would be worth it, provided we build the SPHQ and have courthouses/police stations in our cities (even core cities).

Yes, I can see the appeal of commuism in our situation. The only question's whether we can afford to sit on our backsides building all those police stations while the Zulu get closer and closer to the modern age. They aren't cheap after all. Then again, if we're going to wait for panzers to take on the other continent, we'll have plenty of time to sit back and build things. It all depends on exactly how powerful the Zulu are once we secure our continent. If we can take them with infantry/artillery, I'd say go for it and forget the police stations, but if they're an insane runaway AI we'll likely need to wait and build.

Turn 0 - 1050 AD
We buy Magnetism from the Incans for 74 gpt, 70 gold, Gems, and our WM.
We enter the IA.
Our free tech is Nationalism, but the Incans already have it and Communism.
Sell Nationalism to America for 86 gpt, 2 slaves, his WM, Navigation, MILITARY TRADITION and 30 gold
Sell MT to Inca for his WM, and 79 gpt.
We can get Steam Power in 17 turns at max, but I say no. I shut research off, as the AIs will beat us to it. We get 222 gpt per turn, so we can steal / buy it.
Upgrade 1 Knight to Cavalry.

IBT: Build Newton's.

Turn 1 - 1060 AD
Capture Zulu town Zunguin. It has 2 wines, we just need to connect it to our trade network.
Upgrade some units.

Turn 2 - 1070 AD
Kick the Zulus off our continent and take their last city here called New Bapedi.
We sign peace for WM and 2 gold (couldn't get a city / gpt / tech).
Sell them Nationalism for Ivory, Furs, and Silks, and Economics.
Luxury to 0%.

Turn 4 - 1090 AD
Move units towards Mayan border. We have 5 Cavalry and counting.

IBT: The AIs are being slowed down with all these wars.

Turn 7 - 1120 AD
All core cities are producing cannons or Cavalry.

Turn 8 - 1130 AD
IBT: Renew Saltpeter-for-Dyes deal with Rome.
Incans took Ica. They're at war with Maya. I would try to go to war soon.

Turn 9 - 1140 AD
Connect wines.

Notes:

-We have 10 more turns of good gpt deals.
-It's time for war, please raze Quiriga for me.
-I left units still with moves so if we do decide for war, we can do it this turn.

Boo, we had a 50% shot at a GA when Newton's completed and didn't get it. But a nice set of turns. Time to open a new bottle of wine! :cool:

Ok, the Mayans are toast. Declare on them of course, but keep in mind that it's the Inca we're after now. Our goal in this war should be to get units within striking distance of the Incan saltpeter so we can turn off their cavalry supply as soon as we declare on them. Building some explorers for pillaging purposes would be a good idea.

I'm sorry team,but I have to drop out.It's my general retirement year in civ,I guess I'll be back in civ mode next April.

Reason:RL strikes me so hard.

Sorry to have you drop out, plarq. It was nice playing with you.

Tim, I think you're up.

Got it, I should play tonight.

Edit: It may not get done until Thursday.

It's been great having you on the team, Plarq. Good luck with whatever else takes up the next year.

I'm sorry to leave the game halfways,but campus work is harder than I can imagine,now I don't have chances to play civ often.

1150(0)-some food increasing, specialist manipulation
We're light on workers for when we get steam power; I'll see if I can pull out some workers

IBT-Frankfurt cav->cav
Zunguin worker->worker
Inca captured Kaminaljuyu, so there's no way to get close to their saltpeter

1160(1)-Inca give us 180g to fight Maya

IBT-:crazyeye: Maya, Inca sign peace
Heidelburg cav->cav
Piedras Negras lib->worker
Bremen worker->worker
Inca starts Smith's, Magellan's
Antium builds Smith's

1170(2)-elite knight kills MDI and gets leader

IBT-Leipzig cav->cav
Nuremburg cannon->cav
Cologne court->worker
Hannover cannon->cannon
New Bapedi worker->worker
Inca start Magellan's

1180(3)-lose three cavs attacking Chichen Itza

IBT-Rome demands wines, I refuse, no war

1190(4)-bombarding luck was better this turn, but my cavs are injured

IBT-Berlin cav->cav
Konigsberg cav->cav
Bonn cannon->cannon
New Zimbabwe harbor->worker

1200(5)-Inca learn medicine, that's odd
redline every defender in Chichen Itza, capture it
I want to keep it for Knights Templar, but there's 11 resistors and it will expire soon

IBT-Hamburg cav->cav
Cologne worker->settler

1210(6)-13-27% chance of flipping: about what I expected
Abandon Chichen Itza, found New Frankfurt, start on lib
Lose two cavs attacking redlined musket on mountain

IBT-Hannover cannon->cannon
Ulundi builds Magellan's

1220(7)-capture Tulum without loss, 3 resistors
army kills a couple of muskets, switch Berlin to Heroic Epic, switch Konigsberg to military academy

IBT-Uaxactun court->worker
Dortmund harbor->court

1230(8)-zzz

1240(9)-lose a cav attacking Quirigua
Army kills a musket to raze Lagerto

IBT-Ottomans, Zulu sign MA against Inca
Incan troops start heading towards newly founded Ottoman city
Leipzig cav->cav
Munich cav->cav
Bremen worker->worker
Coba library->worker

1250(10)-raze Copan without loss

Notes: I would suggest buying medicine and selling it to America
You should probably switch a couple of builds to settlers

Maybe tonight, but maybe not till Sunday.

Summary: Maya destroyed, America almost gone. We got Medicine and are close to Steam Power.

Preflight (1250): Mayans are almost vanquished -- four cities, three of which we can get to -- but our army is very thin. Some wounded cavs are sitting on top of cannon. I'd like to pull some units to cover them. Zulu deal runs out soon so we can't spare MPs from the homeland. Pull an MI from Uaxac, but can't help Uxmal.

Upgrade knight in Zunguin.

As Tim noted, America could use Medicine. I probe by trying to trade other stuff, and they appear to have a fair amount of money. Rome wants gems, wines, 2540 for Medicine, which sounds reasonable. We're not using our warchest for much else, so I accept the upfront cost rather than a per-turn deal, and bargain him down to 2260.
Then Medicine to America for 91/, almost a wash!

Also consider horses to America, but they would just build cavs and waste them in stupid attacks. They're better off with riflemen.

Crank up the science to get steam in 12.

Still some money left, and I use it to hurry a library in New Konigs, and two cav that were halfway done. We have 2056 gold left.

IBT: Incans sending massive forces to the Ottomans I guess.
No counterattack from Maya.

1255: 3 cav, cannon (-> settler), 3 libraries (in border cities which start
settlers or workers).

Let's see what we can do with our attack stacks. Uxmal bombardment puts on hit on vet musket to reveal reg musket; I leave it be. Quiringa cannon put several hits, but an attack fails.

Cavalry race to join these attack positions.

Salz could flip! Switch its market to university.

IBT: Longbow comes out of Uxmal. End of the Zulu lux deal, but happiness still ok.

1260: P Negras worker -> worker. Brandenburg settler -> settler.

Bombard Quir and nail two (2/4) muskets and three spears. It's 3-6% to flip,
so leave it for now. Uxmal is the new capital. Maya still won't talk so I
advance on Uxmal.

Lots of unhappiness. We could trade Inca gems for spices, and the new gems near New Frankfurt will be roaded soon. Lux to 20 to tide us over till then.

IBT: Incans pop Ottoman city and stream back through our territory.

1265: Uxmal falls. New capital is in the far north; other city is Amatikulu
at the tip of the peninsula. Maya will talk and I can get Amat for free,
but would rather wait a while to seize flips.

IBT: Zulu and Mayans form a suicide pact, except that the Mayans get 100% of the suicide. Mayans declare on Inca!

1270: Hannover settler. Uax worker.

I'd better get while the getting's good. (Also would like to keep Incans out
of my territory.) Get Amal and 40 to end war. This may well make our flip
situation worse when Mayans exterminated, but the Incans were probably going to take Amal soon anyway -- there was a wounded Incan elite cav next to it.

Incans founded a city in old Mayan territory. Need to beat them to the last gems. Hannover settler heads there, the existing settler goes for the old Ottoman site.

IBT: Inca destroy Maya.

1275: Salz univ -> market. New Zimb worker -> worker. New Ulund lib -> rifle.

Get extra gems and trade them to Inca along with 207 for spices. Lux back down to 10. Steam in 8.

IBT: Inca and Zulu sign peace. Romans land a settler SE of New Frankfurt.

1280: Bonn cannon -> lib. Hurry New Frankfurt's lib.

IBT: Romans found Hispalis. America is in really bad shape, down to Washington only and some little island.

1285: New Frankfurt lib -> worker. Liepzig rifle -> rifle. Cologne and Hanover
pop settlers.

Found Essen on the site of the Ottoman city. (When you found a city, crack open an atlas and pick a place name. The German city list is ludicrously short.)

IBT: Romans land another settler near Essen.

1290: Bremen worker -> market. Stutt aque -> rifle. Zunguin worker -> worker. Am starting to migrate workers to the homeland in preparation for steam power.

IBT: Renew salt-for-dyes deal with Rome; have to kick in 75.

1295: Found Aachen, to grab whales near Heidelberg.

IBT: Zulu take Washington.

1300: Munich cav -> cav.

Found Dusseldorf in the north, to get the last gems.

Our eastern dominions:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1300_SE.JPG

The homeland, and the north:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1300_W.JPG

The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1300_AD.SAV)

One suggestion: If we want to go the TOE route, someone should start a prebuild for it soon.

Also note that our culture is pathetic; Salzberg, on our home peninsula, is at risk of flipping, and

Got it. I'll try to start playing tomorrow. Judging by Floyd's report, we aren't ready to fight the Inca, so I'll probably focus on rebuilding the military and setting up a good choke point to absorb Incan cavalry when the time comes, and of course getting those railroads set up. This will be a more complicated war to undertake.


Please, RNG, give us coal.

Played half my turns tonight. I founded a few cities and got us Communism, sanitation, and steam. I thought this would be a good time to decide what our timetable is for the Peoples' Revolution. On the downside, America kicked the bucket so we've lost 91 gpt, putting our economy in the wastebin.

1300 AD Preflight:

We have a big army but can’t declare war for 15 turns unless the Inca do it for us. Unit support is starting to creep up. We do, however, need more riflemen since we’ll have to absorb a lot of Incan attacks once the war starts. We may even need to surrender the cities past the choke point and just hunker down until we kill off enough cavalry.

Changes: Munich switch to marketplace. Not having one is a scandal. A market plus harbor will let this city grow bigger and pull in more income.
Hannover to University, cheaper to build than a bank and it gives us culture.
Hamburg to aqueduct. Once we get steam, this town will resume growing.
Rush library in Bonn. It’ll be worth it and we need the culture.
Rush courthouse in New Leipzig. It’ll never finish otherwise.
Move caravel with 2 workers back to the main continent in anticipation of railroads.

IBT - Berlin Heroic Epic -> Rifleman.
Frankfurt cavalry -> University
Bonn Library -> aqueduct
New Leipzig courthouse -> marketplace
New Konigsberg worker -> courthouse

1305 AD - Lower Sci to 50% to prevent overrun
Workers near New Konigsberg road and start to mine a grassland. The mining will bear fruit once we’re commies.
Workers near New Leipzig finish irrigation
Rifleman near New Leipzig moves into a fort near Cologne.
Settler near Piedas Negras W,NW,W
Worker irrigates floodplain near New Berlin
Workers near Amitikulu – N
Workers irrigate another plain near New Hamburg
Change one police in N.H. to a taxman.
Workers near New Zimbabwe move to gem mountain
Caravel moves back to ferry more workers
Workers near Stuttgart wait
Cavalry in Frankfurt to Bremen
Cavalry near Bremen to fort near Cologne
Workers mine hills near Piedas Negras
Workers in homeland wait.
Treb into Cologne for an upgrade
Begin moving cannons to the mountain near Nasca. This city should be the first target in any war in order to relieve the flip pressure on Salzburg.
Upgrade knight in Piedas Negras.

IBT - Where is that Roman settler going?
Heidelberg Cavalry -> marketplace
Piedas Negras settler -> courthouse

1310 AD - Science to 60%
Continue moving troops into position to strike Nasca.
Upgrade a cat and treb at Cologne
Heidelberg cavalry moves near Coba
Caravel picks up 2 workers and returns. The other workers nearby wait for rails.
Cavalry near Bremen and Cuello move to the Nasca stack.
Piedas Negras settler moves N,N,NW
Settler near Tulim goes W,W,W
Workers chop forest near Amatikulu
Upgrade Zunguin knight

IBT - Those Italians are taking the long way ‘round. Why didn’t they go by boat?
Discover Steam -> Electricity. Industry is tempting but I want RP to come during the Mayan war.
New Bapedi Worker -> worker
We have unconnected coal near New Bapedi..

1315 AD - Trade SP to Rome for 303 gold, world map, sanitation, republic, and democracy. They have no coal, so it won’t have any immediate effects.
Trade steam and sanitation plus wine, gems, and 747 gold to the Zulu for communism. I decline to revolt before building some police stations.
Workers in the vicinity of the coal mountain converge on it.
Settler near Essen – N
Settler on tobacco near Uxmal founds New Munich
Move 3 cavalry near Coba
Workers near New Konigsberg move into Jungle to clear it before Rring.
Worker near Quiringua mines hill
Cannon near P-N - S,S,W

IBT - Zulu destroy Americans
Leipzig Rifleman -> courthouse (for Communism)
Hamburg Aqueduct -> Courthouse
New Hamburg settler -> worker
Brandenburg settler -> courthouse
Turn science to 50% to cope wit hthe loss of the 91 gpt from America.
I can’t find any other trades to make up the lost gpt.

1320 AD - Start roading the coal near New Bapedi
Found New Heidelberg as a mountainous fishing town
New Hamburg Settler – N,N,W
Chop jungle near New Konigsberg
Cannon near New Berlin W,S,S
Cannon in Cologne to Uaxacutun
2 more cannons move into the Nasca stack, for 8 total.
Leipzig rifle W,W,N
Brandenburg settler S,W

IBT - Nuremburg cavalry -> courthouse
New Berlin Settler -> courthouse
New Zimbabwe Worker -> courthouse

1325 AD - Galley is now NW of Amatikulu. Load a settler and cavalry for an incense snatch.
One last cannon moves to the Arequipa stack, for 8 total here too,
Rifle near Konigsberg N,N,N
Nuremberg cavalry to N of Konigsberg
Settler near Brandenburg – SW
Irrigate plains near Amatikulu
Cannon to Brandenburg
New Berlin Settler SW,SW,W
Workers road hill near Piedas Negras
Worker near Quiringua helps mine hill
Switch Quiringua to courthouse
Many workers wait for coal next turn
Swithc Uaxacutun to police station

IBT - We connect our coal

At this point, we could very well do with revolt to communism. I've never used it before and I'd like to see how it works. Monarchy is giving us a pathetic economy and inadequate unit support, and I feel that this game will go well into the modern age. I plan to turn sci to 0% and start rush-building courthouses and police in preparation for the revolution. If nobody objects, I'll also turn Konigsberg's mil. academy into the SPHQ prebuild.

Secondly, I noticed something else. Former America contains 2 coal and 2 lux. I wonder whether it might be best to go to war with the Zulu instead of the Inca and try to sieze this land for the resources. As it is, one fit of RNG spite and we're out of coal. Of course, the Inca have coal too but it's harder to get to. In any case, I'm going to found a city on the incense. Sure, it'll flip eventually, but until then we've got us a free lux. On the other hand, every turn the Incans keep those 3 pesky cities is a turn our cities could flip.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/zululoot.jpg

1330 AD - Science to 0% We need to rush those commie-buildings before we revolt.
Build RR near Stuttgart, Berlin, and Leipzig. Hamburg is now gaining food.
Move Rifleman into Nasca stack
Move caravel into Hamburg and upgrade to galleon. The plan is to use the gallion to transport cannons to Julii once Nasca falls.
Cavalry near Leipzig moves to fort near Cologne.
Rush courthouse in Dortmund.
Galley is NW of Essen
Found New Nuremburg in the hills near New Bapedi.
Start mining hill NW or New Bapedi
Move settler into desert near Amatikulu.
Start a RR near Amatikulu

IBT - I count 3 cavalry in the Incan colony
New Frankfurt worker -> worker
Cologne Settler -> Police
Dortmund courthouse -> worker

1335 AD - Switch Bonn to worker
RR a mined tile near Hamburg
Rush courthouse in Piedas Negras
Start RR on Cow next to P-N
Found New Cologne in desert near Amatikulu
Galley N,N,N
Move Settler from Cologne to space N of New Konigsberg
Switch Bremen to police

IBT - Berlin rifleman -> courthouse
P-N courthouse -> police
Bonn worker -> worker
Zunguin worker -> courthouse

1340 AD - Lots of various RR builds
Found New Hannover on the Incan border to steal their iron.
Berlin rifleman NW,NW,NW,NW
Galley N,N,N
Rush courthouse in Quiringua

IBT - Quiringua courthouse -> harbor
Hannover university -> police
Dortmund worker -> police

1345 AD - More railroads
The Inca seem to be importing iron from the Zulu now, unless they have a source I haven’t seen.
Rifleman near Leipzig to Bremen
Galley N,N,W

IBT - Trade with Rome expires

1350 AD - Sell Rome wines and gems for 22 gpt + 14 lump. I didn’t want to sell to the Inca, and the Zulu aren’t interested.
More RR
Rifleman from Bremen to Cuello
Galley N,N,W


Notes:
We have RR! I’m in the process of building a main N-S axis to get newly built troops to the Incan border. We still need workers.

We’ve got communism, but the result of revolting now would be disastrous because we don’t have enough courthouses. This should be a priority.

The Inca are still chugging along nicely. We’re going to have to come from behind again. Note that I stole their only iron so they’re importing from the Zulu. If they go back to war with the Zulu, no more iron.

I was so busy building other things that I forgot to make explorers. As I mentioned, we’ll likely need them to pillage in a war.

Our deal with the Inca expires in a few turns. Whether to fight then is up to you, but I’d put the priority on getting to communism before the war.

That settler in the galley is going to settle on the unclaimed incense on the former American peninsula.

Got it, will try to play tonight, if not, tomorrow.

Turn 0 - 1350 AD
Change a Courthouse in our capital to Cavalry. We don't need one in the capital as the palace does the job in Communism. ;)

IBT: We build Military Academy. Armies take 25 turns (Factories, Railroads, and xPlants will help this though...).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/nationsinworld.JPG

Turn 1 - 1355 AD
We continue to railroad.
Rome has Industrialization.

Turn 2 - 1360 AD
All AIs now have Industrialization except Ottomans. Inca and Rome know Electricity.

Turn 4 - 1370 AD
Work on railnet. Still need more money for a safe steal attempt.

Turn 5 - 1375 AD
New Bremen is founded on the Incense. It starts a library.

IBT: Renew Spices deal with Incans for Gems, WM, and 363 gold.
We need more prepartion for war.

Turn 6 - 1380 AD
Luxury tax to 0%!

Turn 8 - 1390 AD
Railnet...

IBT: Renew Dyes for Saltpeter, WM, and 313 gold deal with Rome.

Turn 9 - 1395 AD
IBT: This happens.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/uhoh.JPG

They take New Bremen.

Should we mobilize and pump out Cavalry, if only to take over Inca?

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1400AD.SAV)

Got it. I'll see how ready (or unready) we are for either a revolt or war. The ability to build factories would be nice, so mobilization would only be wise if we want to just build the army needed, beat the Inca, and then build factories afterwards.

Too bad about New Bremen. A taste of our own medicine I guess.

I'm still more comfortable revolting first than going to war with the Inca right now. As it is we're going to get massively outproduced and I doubt whether we could really keep the war effort going long enough to actually make progress against them. Also, if the Inca get RP during the war, how will we fight them with just cannons? I'd like to have communism and RP for the war, though simply fighting a war of attrition and forcing them into anarchy might be a valid strategy. We'd need some "dummy cities" that we could just lose, retake, and lose again to pile on the WW until their democracy crumbles and they go for fascism.

And of course get the railnet finished so we can respond immediately to any Zulu landings.

1400(0)-It looks like we're ready for communism; rush some courts and police stations
Put defenses in cities near Inca
6-turn anarchy

IBT-Zulu drops off some cavs

1405(1)-wipe out invasion force

1410(2)-zzz

IBT-Zulu drops off more cavs to kill

1415(3)-Kill them

IBT-More Zulu cavs to kill

1420(4)-Same

IBT-Two shiploads of cavs this time

1425(5)-lose a cav

IBT-Zulu drop off some cavs, we turn communist

1430(6)-MM appropriately
get a leader killing invasion
I see an Incan infantry

IBT-Ottomans, Zulu sign embargo against us
More Zulu cavs
Ottomans, Inca sign peace

1435(7)-Zulu have an elite* cav, I wonder what they wasted their leader on?
I get to bombard a frigate too

IBT-No Zulu landing

1440(8)-Zulu are willing to sign peace and provide about a 250g discount
I'll pass on peace at this moment
buy electricity from Rome for 973g
Everybody knows replaceable parts; nobody knows scientific method
decide to go for SM, ToE, and Hoover's

IBT-Zulu drop off cavs, riflemen, longbowman
Coba riots due to lost MP

1445(9)-kill invaders

1450(10)-zzz

Notes: Hopefully we'll get scientific method first and pick up some techs
Konigsberg should probably get ToE and then SPHQ; Leipzig should get Hoover
You could sign peace with Zulu, but they're provided leader farming for now; probably sign peace when a good deal comes up
Zulu and Inca are fascist, Rome and Ottomans are democracies

Will play tonight or tomorrow.

Sweet! We're a backwards monarchy no longer. Now we just need to get RP, do some upgrades, and those fascists are toast.

Edit:

Looking at out readiness for war, here are our modern troops. I'm assuming that we wait for RP then get enough cash to upgrade the cannons and rifles:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/our_army.jpg

We have lots of cavalry and soon-to-be-artillery (once we can trade for RP)

This is probably enough to raze the 3 inca colonies the same turn we declare, as well as killing off the 4 cavalry they appear to have in this area:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/inca_blitz.jpg

The only problem is that we have a total of 6 riflemen/infantry. As soon as we press enter after the first turm of war, a horde of Incan cavalry will come pouring toward our cities. I suggest the following strategy:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/main_front.jpg

2 infantry guard the mountian forts near Cologne and 4 guard New Heidelberg. The cities past New Heidelberg are indefensible against as many cavalry as the Incans probably have in reserve. Once we've absorbed the first wave of attacks we should go after Ica and Palenque, then send a suicide explorer (which we should build immediately) from Paleque to cut off their saltpeter. After that we have a few turns to deplete their cavalry and press our advantage before they reconnect it and start building more cavalry. That saltpeter is probably going to be crucial to this war, so we should make an effort to take the city or at least get within striking distance so we can keep pillaging it. Moving an infantry army onto the saltpeter might also be a good strategy.

So, as far as I'm concerned, the bottom line is: Research scientific method, trade for RP, and build more riflemen and a few explorers in the meantime.

Couldn't make it today. I'll play first thing tomorrow, following Gato's recommendations.

Screwed by Inca getting Sci Meth two turns before we could and trading it around, and by Rome finishing Suffrage so that others' Suffrage builds might have switched to TOE.

Tattooed by Inca demanding wines and making us his prison, uh, sommelier.

But we do get Repl in four and TOE the next turn. After which we should be able to get Atomic Theory and Electronics, trade At The around for good techs, and build Hoover.

1450 (Preflight): Load up CrpMapStat. New Hannover is a minor flip risk;
I empty it and use the units to garrison Qurigua. Otherwise looks good,
so I hit spacebar ...

IBT: Zulu frigates perform some pointless bombarding. Two rifles and a cav
land near Essen.

1455: Dusseldorf lib-> temple, New Hannover lib -> temple. Coba and Brandenburg grow to unhappiness (MapStat is so awesome). Turn citizens into tax collectors; 36 gold left for Sci Meth in 5 at -7. Don't spend that $1 in one place :crazyeye: .

There are 17 cannon handily placed near the Zulu forces, so it's boom-boom-boom let's-go-back-to-my-room. No leader. Some railing.

Have to slow down Konigsburg to preserve the TOE prebuild. Some more flip prevention and then hit the spacebar.

IBT: More silly bombarding.

1460: New Frankfurt worker -> temple. Dortmund aque -> market.

IBT: This bombardment has become tiresome.

1465: Dusseldorf WLTKD, which halves its flip risk. Munich rifle -> rifle.

IBT: Ottomans ally with Zulu. Ooo, those scary Ottomans.

Then the Incans demand wines! I don't care so much about the wines, but giving it to them hamstrings us for 20 turns unless we want to take a rep hit. I submit; feel free to tell me that I did the wrong, and cowardly, thing. Obnoxious that we had only two turns till Sci Meth dealing.

1470: Berlin rifle -> rifle. Tulum courthouse -> lib.

IBT: Zulu cleverly land three cavalry next to a huge stack of cannons. What-ever will I do?!

1475: Get a rifle. Piedras market -> rifle. New Liepzig aque -> market.

Ouch, Inca are building TOE. And Sci Meth was traded around. :cry:

IBT: Bombardment craters a mountain south of Cologne.

Incans get pissy about the gems-for-spices deal. Good thing I don't have wines to offer them. Gems plus 2/ plus 8; another deal we won't be able to break. (25 in the treasury; have 307 coming from the last turn of partial science. Had I dialed down spend two turns early I could have paid cash. Insert head-beating smiley, I can't find it.)

1480: Uax aque -> temple. Everyone building TOE. Rome is Suffragette City.

Get Sci Meth (two turns late); how long till TOE? Nine turns. Can get Repl
in eight turns at +32 per turn. No remarketing opportunities for techs.
Zulu want 20 for peace. So I stay put.

IBT: More cratering.

1485: Rifle. Brandenburg court -> market.

Re-building of TOE. That was probably switching from Suffrage builds. :eek:

IBT: Zulu land five cav and a guerilla ... next to 17 cannon.

1490: Berlin rifle -> rifle. Essen lib -> court. Salz police -> bank.
Cobar court -> market. New Berlin aque -> court. New Zimb lib -> court.

Killing the Zulu stack yields Hengest! (I thought he was a Saxon, but I'll take it.) He's hanging out in the capital for now. Obvious use would be SPHQ.

IBT: Salt and 11/ and 5 renews the Dyes deal with Rome.

1495: Munich rifle. Tulum lib -> market. New bapedi lib -> harbor. Aachen
court -> harbor.

IBT: A guerilla and two cav land.

1500: Hamburg rifle -> rifle. Uxmal court -> lib. New Koenig court -> temple.
New Heidel harbor -> court.

Attack with veteran cavs and promote two of them.

That's it for me.

Notes:
- We have two deals with the Inca; we ship them wines for free, and we traded luxuries and 2 GPT. So breaking either of those deals is probably bad.
- The leader is hanging around in Berlin.
- Major flip risks are New Hanover and Dusseldorf. New Frankfurt needs only two units for some reason. Cologne, Quiringa, and New Liepzig are flip-proof by dint of large garrisons. Don't pull them out.
- Note the craters south of Cologne, and the Palace prebuild for Hoover.

No screenshot as there haven't been any changes except for railing, mining, and irrigating. The core peninsula is well-RR'd. I've railed a lot of irrigated desert to replace sea squares.

The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1500AD.sav)

Got it.

I'd quibble with caving on the wines. But then again fighting too early in our situation would probably be worse than fighting too late. Looks like I won't be able to declare during my turns unless I can provoke them. I'd say from now on we should aggree not to make any 20-turn deals with the Inca, no matter how tempting, since we're going to be in a postion to attack within the next 10 turns.

I should have some time tonight. I'll probably just keep building unless the Incas trespass. With our new, improved unit support we can afford many more troops. I guess our priorities are:

Get RP and upgrade our infantry/artillery
Finish TOE and start building Hoover
Get espionage and build the SPHQ
Build more troops.

I'm tempted to build some boats and go raze a few Zulu cities to extort a tech, but I'll save our strength for the Inca.

Edit: Halfway through and there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that the Zulu got ToE. The good news is that We're at war with the Inca. :evil:

Ok, an update on the war so far. We've lost 3 cities in former Mayan territory (but they were indefensible anyway) and captured/razed 2 of the 3 Incan colonies in our territory. The Inca are out of rubber and the Zulu are on our side. We've lost a bunch of cavalry in the first few turns of the war, but I think I've stabilized the situation. The Inca are doing something very, very stupid and I'm taking advantage. :hammer:

We also have 3 armies and the pentagon.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/fish_barrel.jpg

Add this to your list of stupid AI tricks. Large stacks of infantry went marching straight through our artillery kill zone to reinforce a city that fell before they even got there.

1500 AD preflight

We still have deals going so I don’t expect to declare war. The main goal will be to build and research infrastructure, particularly ToE, Hoover, and SPHQ, as well as more units.

Move cannon back onto railnet.

IBT - Zulu bombard our cities, accomplishing nothing.
Quiringua – Police -> Rifleman
New Hamburg courthouse -> aqueduct
New Nuremburg courthouse -> cannon
New Hannover Temple-> worker

1505 AD - Sci to 80% to get RP in 2 turns
Build more rails
Mine near New Nuremburg
Bombard two Zulu frigates that got too close
Irrigate near Dortmund

IBT - Zulu baobard, no damage
A gaggle of cavalry land
Berlin rifleman -> Hospital
Piedas Negras Rifleman -> Cavalry
Cuello aqueduct -> barracks
Stuttgart rifleman -> university
Dortmund Marketplace -> Barracks
Dusseldorf temple _> barracks
Zulu beat us to ToE

1510 AD - Make peace with Ottomans. They pay us 1 gpt.
Sell the Ottomasn ToG for 18 gpt.
Switch Leipzig to hospital
Switch Konigsberg to palace to prebuild ofr Hoover
Kill off the invading cavalry. We lose 2 cavs(!) but 1 promotes to elite.

IBT - Zulu land more cavalry and infantry
Discover RP -> Industrialization
Leipzig police -> cavalry
Frankfurt police -> frigate
Heidelberg police -> cavalry
Coba riots, switch taxman to clown
New Cologne courthouse -> library
New Hannover worker -> aqueduct
We don’t have rubber. The Inca do, at Juli :evil:

1515 AD - Sci to 0% to get gold for upgrades
Peace with Zulu. I don’t want to lose lots of units attacking an infantry on a mountain. I’ll let the stack sit around until we bribe the Zulu into attacking the Inca
Upgrade 3 cannons

IBT - Zulu ships leave
Hannover Riflemen -> Cavalry
Bonn courthouse -> aqueduct
Zunguin barracks -> Harbor
Amatukulu riflemen ->
Dortmund barracks -> guerilla
Aachen harbor -> library
Lots of riots. I forgot that we lost WH.

1520 AD - Lux to 20%
Build more rails
Upgrade 4 artillery
An inca is trespassing. I don’t want to fight this turn, so I decline to boot. Next turn…

IBT - Inca move some infantry into our lands…
New Munich courthouse -> library

1525 AD - Demand that the Inca leave. They declare. Let the fun begin :hammer:
WH lets us go to 10% lux
Hengest becomes an army to clear the war for more MGLs
Bombard down Juli with our 6 artillery
One cav army takes a lot of damage killing one ¾ and 1 redlined inf.
An elite cav kills the last redlined inf and takes Juli. I want to raze, but I keep it because we need the rubber.
Cannons bombard down the two infantry near New Konigsberg to red.
Two cavs kill the redlined infantry and capture 8 workers.
6 Cavs kill 5 Incan cavs in the Incan colonies. They are now without cav, I think.
Switch Cuello to explorer
Change Hamburg and Dortmund to infantry
Change Frankfurt to explorer
Fortify a bunch of warriors in Juli to quell resistance
Pick off a wandering rifleman in our territory. 1 cav retreats, 1 wins.
I have more cavs but not more artillery to take more cities.
Cross my fingers and press enter.

IBT - The Incan Cavalry Flood takes Dusseldorf, New Hannover, and New Frnakfurt. Those cities were indefensible anyway. At least we killed a few cavs.
A stack of 9 cavs swings around Cologne and ouucpies a mountain.
Hamburg Infantry -> Infantry
Quiringua frigate -> Artillery
Frankfurt explorer -> explorer
Munich Rifle -> Cav
Cuello explorer
New Berlin riots
Juli quells 1 resister

1530 AD - 2 explorers pillage rubber near Palenque. I believe the Inca are now without.
Bombard each invading cav down to 3 hp, attack, leaving 5 alive with 1-2 hp each. Ouch.
Buy the Zulu into the war for 292g + 16 gpt, mainly to keep them from allying with the Inca, and to send all those frigates somewhere productive.
Nasca gets bombarded and attacked, but survives with one infantry.

IBT - Caesar renegotiates wines for 16 gpt
The Incan invaders make a break for the colonies. They’re not invaders. They’re reinforcements!
Berlin Cavalry -> Cavalry
Uaxacutun temple -> market
New Bapedi Harbor -> Courthouse
Zulus end their embargo against us

1535 AD - An army razes Nasca
The other army blitzes through 3 invading cavalry and 1 invading guerilla.
The reinforcement cavalry are no more.
Upgrade a couple more rifles and a cannon.
Move another inf to New Konigsberg. Barring a culture flip, we have a good choke.
Trade Zulu wine and gems for fur and silks

IBT - Incan reinforcements keep streaming through the “shooting gallery”
Leipzig Cav -> Inf
Frankfurt explorer -> explorer
Nuremburg Police -> bank
Bremen Police -> Settler
Uxmal Library -> Harbor
New Leipzig Market -> artillery
New Nuremburg settler -> library
Switch Konigsberg to the Pentagon

1540 AD - Lots of action around the front. Kill a bunch more Incan reinforcements.

IBT - Incans continue to run around waving their arms.
Konigsberg pentagon -> police
Stuttgart university -> cavalry
New Berlin courthouse -> artillery
Brandenberg market -> Barracks

1545 AD - Upgrade 4 cannons
Seize all mountain tiles.
Bombard more Incas
We need more cavalry. Our strength is mainly 3 cavalry armies and a ton of artillery/cannons. One army has 4 cavalry, thanks to the Pentagon

1545 AD - More of the Same. We’re getting stretched thin by all those Inca targets.

IBT - Incan cav takes Quiringua. I didn’t realize it could reach there.
Frankfurt explorer -> explorer
Heidelberg cav -> cav
Cuello explorer -> barracks
Piedas Negras riots from lost wines
Tulum Market -> aqueduct
Zunguin harbor -> library
New Ulundi market -> aqueduct
New Munich library -> harbor
New Cologne library -> settler

1550 AD - Retake Quiringua with 2 cavs
Bombard and capture Arequipa with 2 armies
Upgrade 2 cannon, 3 rifles
Kill off several redlined infantry, bombard a bunch more.
A longbow kills a redlined inf.



Notes:
- In the first 5 turns of war, we lost 3 cities (temporarily), took 2, razed 1, and gained rubber. We also killed a large number of Incan troops, apparently including most of their cavalry.
- We’ve lost a bunch of cavs too. These are the first priority for unit builds.
- Our new cities on the eastern continent aren’t fully developed. I focused mainly on improvements to get them all up to snuff before switching to cavalry.
- I shut off research to have more money to upgrade cannons with. Be sure to turn it back on once there are no more cannons.
- Try to kill as many redlined Incan infantry as possible before they can escape. I don’t think they can build more.
- As tempting as it is to reclaim our captured cities, I’d still suggest Ica and Palenque, since Palenque has the Inca’s only source of rubber and is also a good staging area for explorer raids to pillage their only source of saltpeter.
- The Zulus are on our side. Don’t panic when you see them in our territory. I didn’t give them a RoP because I was afraid all those cavs would take one of the Incan colonies before we could.
- It looks as if the Inca have pretty much spent their strength unless they’re building up for a counterattack. Are we up for razing them all the way off the continent?

Our troops:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/our_army2.jpg

Got it, will play tonight.

I only had time to do 2 turns tonight - I'll do 3 tomorrow for 5 total - these turns take REALLY long, I hope you understand. :)
-------------------------------------------
Turn 0 - 1550 AD
Instead of playing around with flip risks, I'm going to raze + replace with the Inca. Will hold cities until end of turns to use RR benefits.
Use a 4/4 Archer to kill a 1/4 Rifle - now 2/4.
Looks good.

IBT: Lose the archer. 1-1

Turn 1 - 1555 AD
5/5 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, now 4/5
5/5 Cavalry vs. 1/5 Infantry - wins, now 2/5
17/17 Army vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, still 17/17
Same Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, now 14/17
Same Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, now 11/17
Army goes to heal.
5/5 Cavalry vs. 1/2 Rifle - wins, now 3/5
3/4 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Rifle - loses, Rifle now 2/5
4/4 Cavalry vs. 1/5 Rifle - wins, now 4/5
4/4 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Guerilla - wins, now 3/4
3/3 Archer vs. 1/4 Longbow - wins, now 4/4
3/4 Longbow vs. 2/4 Cavalry - Cavalry retreats, 1/4
4/4 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, now 3/4
4/4 Cavalry vs. 1/3 Infantry - wins, now 3/5
3/4 MDI vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, now 4/5
3/3 Archer vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, now 2/4
14/18 Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, now 13/18
Same Army vs. 1/3 Infantry - wins, now 12/18
Same Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, still 12/18
Army goes to heal.
5/5 MDI vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, still 5/5
2 explorers pillage the Incan Rubber.
Upgrade 1 cannon.
New Bremen is founded.

Unit kill count: 18-2
We have no Incan units in our territory anymore. I love the power of artillery.

IBT: Lose an archer and an MDI. 18-4

Turn 2 - 1560 AD
3/4 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, now 2/4
5/5 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, get's a MGL, now 4/5. MGL forms an army.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VDmgl.JPG
5/5 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, still 5/5
3/4 Longbow vs. 1/4 Cavalry - loses
4/4 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, now 3/5
14/14 Army vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, now 13/14
Same Army vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, still 13/14
Same Army vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, still 13/14
Army goes to heal.
4/5 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, still 4/5
Unit kill count: 26-5

Turn 2 - 1560 AD continued
All is well, hit enter.

IBT: Rome declares war on the Zulu ... this will slow the tech pace down.
Incans only drop a couple units in our territory.

Turn 3 - 1565 AD
17/17 Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, still 17/17
Same Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, now 16/17
Same Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, now 12/18
Same Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, still 12/18
Notice Zulus unloaded a SoD by Tamboccocha ... nice.
18/18 Army vs. 4/4 Infantry - wins, now 13/18
Same Army vs. 4/4 Infantry - loses, Infantry at 1HP ... ripoff.
5/5 Cavalry vs. 3/4 Infantry - retreats
5/5 Cavalry vs. 2/4 Infantry - wins, now 1/5

IBT: Zulus take Tampoccocha.

Turn 4 - 1570 AD
18/18 Army vs. 2/4 Infantry - wins, now 15/18
Same Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, still 15/18
5/5 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Infantry - loses, Inf still 1/4 :(
4/4 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, still 4/4
4/4 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Infantry - loses, Inf still 1/4
5/5 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, now 3/5
We take Ica. Now our artillery can reach Palenque without going in Incan territory. However, almost all artillery (except cannons) have been used this turn.
Capture 2 workers railroading the Rubber, and pillage that tile.
5/5 Cavalry vs. 2/4 Guerilla - loses
5/5 Cavalry vs. 2/4 Guerilla - wins, now 4/5
4/4 Cavalry vs. 2/4 Guerilla - loses
4/4 Cavalry vs. 2/5 Guerilla - wins, now 2/4

IBT: Lose 2 Cavalry and 1 Infantry.

Turn 5 - 1575 AD
Start bombarding Palenque.
18/18 Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, still 18/18
Same Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, still 18/18
Same Army vs. 1/4 Infantry - wins, now 17/18
5/5 Cavalry vs. 3/4 Cavalry - loses, Cav now 4/5
4/4 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Guerilla - wins, now 3/4
4/4 Cavalry vs. 1/4 Guerilla - wins, still 4/4
4/5 Cavalry vs. 1/5 Cavalry - wins, now 4/5. Gets MGL used to make army.
We now have control of Palenque.
We now control of spices.
5/5 MDI vs. 1/4 Cavalry - wins, still 5/5

Next target: New Hannover. Artillery can reach it from New Konigsberg.
This takes away their only source of Iron (except for Buffalo, but it is an island and has no harbor).

TimBentley is UP!

This is the most fun I've had in a while. :cool:

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1575AD.SAV)

Got it. I should play tonight.

1575(0)-MM a bit, switch some builds (mostly regular units)
Ica has over 1% chance of flipping, send settler there to replace it with New Bonn (but not on the bananas)
Have to hire a specialist in Cologne (the migrating whipping memories)

IBT-Inca kills frigate, MDI

1580(1)-capture New Hannover without loss
lose a cav attacking a cav

IBT-Ottomans, Zulu sign MA against Inca
lose a cav
Rome establishes an embassy

1585(2)-lose three cavs capturing New Frankfurt (one an elite attacking a redlined cav!)
sell iron to Rome for industrialization, 154g
start research on espionage
switch some cities to factories

IBT-lose a cav, 2 rifles

1590(3)-Tamboccha is now Roman

IBT-Dyes deal expires, not enough gpt available
New Berlin riots

1595(4)-Buy dyes from Rome for saltpeter, 34gpt
lose a cav capturing Dusseldorf

IBT-Incan cavs decided to suicide against infantry army at Dusseldorf

1600(5)-capture Calakmul, Kaminaljuyu without loss
replace Kaminaljuyu with New Salzburg

Notes: I would recommend buying espionage from Rome, and switching cities to Intelligence Agency and SPHQ
We can then shut off research and steal
There's some cannons in Cologne you may want to upgrade

Will monger war tomorrow.

These are long turns; have completed three of five. Took two more cities and pillaged Inca's salt; SPHQ is coming next turn.

Preflight (1600): Suicide explorer pillages salt near Bonampak. It was railed, so another pillage required.

IBT: One attack on elite inf fails. Incans load up cav on a mountain; I know what to do about that ...

1605: Hamburg cav -> cav; Tulum rax -> cav. New Berlin market -> inf. No flips.

Cav army walks back, will pillage salt next turn. Hammer the seven cav that entered our territory and get a GL; he will become a small wonder.

Frontline cities are tough to defend given their flip risks. I put an inf or two in each along with some junk.

IBT: Just one attack on Calakmul. Four guerrilas cross the border; can ignore them as they're not next to anything.

1610: Frankfurt cav -> cav. Bremen settler -> market. Cuello cav -> cav. Bonn settler -> granary. New Hamburg rax -> cav. Dortmund cav -> cav. New Koenig aque -> market.

Zulu building Hoover. No flips!

Take Andahuay easily. It has nothing of value (except an aque), so I raze it and found Dresden in its place. Use the other half of the artillery force to grab Tikal. It's a high flip risk.

Army pillages salt and moves back to my borders. Talk to Pacha just to verify that he has no resources.

IBT: Incan cav kills our cav and takes two artys. Fortunately he moves them rather than disbanding them. A huge force (six cav, guerilla, inf) lands in mountains next to Essen.

1615: Get Espionage. Turn off science; realize that lux is at 10 unnecessarily (Cologne is unhappy, but 4 MP's solves that and I switch its build to a market). We make 31 GPT. Upgrade two cannon.

Uax market -> factory. Salz cav -> SPHQ. Coba hosp -> inf. Amat arty -> arty. New Munich cav -> cav.

No flips.

Barbarossa hurries the SPHQ. Grab the artys. Hammer the Inca stack and kill it with no losses.

Definitely running out of things for workers to do.

Pre-SPHQ stats: 681 income from cities, 119 corruption. 464 shields.

IBT: Renew peace treaty with Zulu. Stack of Zulu land next to Tambocchia.

Incan guerillas and one cav attack Calakmul. Wound inf, no losses. Incans land one inf next to Essen.

1620: Salz SPHQ (which uses the FP graphic, hmm) -> cav. Zunguin aque -> market. New Stutt lib -> court.

Post-SPHQ: 697 income, 102 corruption, 494 shields.

Bombard the inf next to Essen and kill it. Will load up an art stack and some cav and go for a city next turn. Bonampak would relieve a salient near Dresden, but Yaxchilan is better because its cultural borders are next to three mountains. I'm already having problems with a guerilla stack in mountains above Calakmul. Also, any leftover arty from next turn's attack can shell that mountain.

Put 16 arty, two cav armies, inf army, four elite cav, veteran cav. Other artys shell the seven guerillas north of Calakmul.

Big stack of unused workers by Cuello. Next player may want to join some of them to cities.

IBT: The AI is soooo stupid. A big Zulu stack is next to Tamboccocha. A few attacks reveal that the Romans are on the ropes. So what do the Zulu do? They spend two inf pillaging the square that would have become theirs had they taken the city!

1625: No attacks from guerilla north of Calak, but Calak then flips, losing two elite inf, an arty, and several warriors.

Stutt inf -> inf. New Heidel court -> lib.

Retake Calakmul easily. Now it's the turn of Yax. Its three defenders are redlined and the city is taken; doing so chews up one army. Yax has nothing of value so I raze-and-replace. Found Augsberg in its stead. It's still a big flip risk at around 4%

There's a stack of guerillas next to the arty stack that pounded Yax. The leftovers hammer them, and they are pasted at the cost of an elite cav (against a redlined guerilla, of course).

--

Notes for the next player:

- There are 38 workers in a stack near Cuello just hanging out; there's not much for them to do except in the front lines. Maybe join some to cities?

- There is a guerilla in the mountains northeast of New Salzburg. I left it alone because I ran out of artys, but you could try to swat it with three cannon and go after it with an unused army.

- Cologne is starving to get its market quicker. After it pops the market next turn, readjust its citizens.

- We have 21 cavalry, but only 10 infantry. I've had to use cavalry as buffers against potential attacks.

- There are three cannon which haven't been moved. You can upgrade them or attack with them. However note that the Inca do have the Workshop (at the far end of the continent), so don't go craxy with the upgrades (I left the spearman be for this reason).

- Inca have no salt, horses, or rubber. All they can build is guerillas.

- Need to build the CIA (after a factory?) and some new settlers.

- I was just accosted by the police! Some guy ran off the road and knocked over two of my fence posts. The incident does not appear to be connected with the Zulu or Inca.

The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD1625_AD.SAV)

Got it. Sounds like my turns will be a lot of fun.

1625 AD preflight:

Why atomic theory? The Zulu are already building Hoover, so our odds of getting it are pretty bad. I switch to corporation since Floyd mentioned nothing about research priorities.

Upgrade 2 cannons. You can’t have too many artillery. These babies are never going to go obsolete.

Sci to 30% so we’ll have enough to upgrade the last 2 cannons next turn.

Begin moving galleon around to a better position, so we can one day ship troops to Zululand.

IBT - Ottomans declare on Zulu :suicide:
Zulu take Tampoocha
Incan guerillas attack Calakamul, 2 guerillas, I inf die
Hamburg cav -> factory
Heidelberg inf -> uni
Cologne market -> cav
Hannover inf -> factory
New Bapedi aqueduct -> barracks

1630 AD - Elite cav kills redlined mountain guerilla near Calakamul without losing hp
bombard Lazapa to 1 hp, take with an army. See an Incan destroyer off the coast.
Move 1 inf and 5 workers onto the rubber near Palenque. Caesar wants that rubber.
Upgrade an artillery
Move the big artillery stack up toward Humanda because it’s putting pressure on Lazapa.
Another army takes out 3 invading guerillas then retreats to Cologne to heal.
An inf and a cav kill 2 more bombarded guerillas
9-0
Sci to 60%

IBT - Rome ends wines deal
Inca offer peace. <Laughs>
New Frankfurt worker -> courthouse
Berlin factory -> intel. Agency
Piedas Neagrs factory -> university
Uxmal aqueduct -> barracks
Brandenburg factory -> cav.
New Unundi aqueduct -> cav
New Leipzig inf -> factory

1635 AD - Big arty stack moves in range of Humanga and Machu Pichu
road Palenque’s rubber. Could trade wine, rubber, coal, 177g, 13 gpt to Rome for corporation. I do this and start researching refining at 50%
Bombard and kill 4 invading warriors. Lose 1 cav
Score 12-1

IBT - Zulu end silk + fur deal
New Bremen Library -> settler
Tulum inf -> cav

1640 AD - Get back furs from the Zulu + 8 gpt
Lux to 10%
Bombard and raze Humanga
Kill more guerillas
Score is 19-3

IBT - An Incan fleet is returning home. From invading Zululand?
Konigsberg factory -> army
Nuremburg bank -> uni
New Berlin inf -> uni
New Bapedi barracks -> cav
Dortmund inf -> factory

1645 AD - Disaster! 2 armies die attacking cities. One wasn’t my fault as a full-health army died attacking a 2 hp infantry.
Bonhampak is razed. Machu Pichu survives
Move more artillert toward Machu Pichu
Score 23-10

IBT - Leipzig factory -> cav
Coba inf -> uni
New Hamburg cav -> cav
New Munich cav -> cav
New Nuremburg cav -> market

1650 AD - Raze Machu Pichu, sinking a bunch of ships at port
Move a couple inf and art toward the next target


Notes:
-Ok, I blew it. One army was lost to the RNG attacking a 2 hp infantry. The other was lost because I attacked Machu Pichu a second time even though the army was at half hp. I can be overly aggressive sometimes.
-On the bright side, the Inca lost 4 cities in 5 turns, 3 of them actual productive core cities. Not bad for artillery warfare.
-If we settle on the spices near the former site of Machu Pichu, we can trade them to the Zulu.
-I gave up on the Hoover Dam. The Zulu will get it. We need to concentrate on getting tanks and bombers.
-We should build cavalry and settlers mostly, along with factories and universities where it makes sense. It’s scandalous the number of major cities without universities, given that we’re scientific.
-I think the Inca still have oil. If we don’t hurry we may one day see bombers overhead and battleships off the coast.


Wonders – The Inca have Sun Tzu and Leonardo, which we should try to keep, in two of their far costal cities. Their capital has the Sistine chapel, but we haven’t built any cathedrals so it might not be worth keeping that. I already razed Copernicus in Machu Pichu.

The UN - Before long the Zulu will have fission and be able to build the UN. This wouldn’t be a disaster as they’ll probably avoid calling a vote for fear that Rome would vote for us. Hopefully, the Inca would abstain. However, we should avoid attacking Rome unless we’re certain that we can get the UN for ourselves and suppress the votes. And of course a prebuild of our own for the UN would be the best idea.

Victory conditions – Once we beat the Inca and get all the new cities up and running we’ll have a lot of production, and we’ll have to decide whether to go for space or domination. Space is difficult because we need to out-research the Zulu on all those expensive modern techs. Domination is hard because we’ll have to invade an advanced continent-spanning empire. Either condition would benefit from our late golden age. What does everyone think? I vote for getting flight, building a huge navy and air force, declaring on the Zulu, triggering the GA, then building the spaceship while they try futilely to invade us.

I think a war over there is fine, and go for space race.

1. Declare war on Zulus, and land some armies / panzers.
2. Use panzers to trigger GA.
3. Use GA to build up science and corruption-reducing improvements in the homeland.
4. Use Armies to pillage Zulu lands (as well as bombers to help) to slow their researching capability.

We don't ever have to take a city. :)

Another thing - Chicago is building the Hoover Dam. Chicago is also easy to reach, giving us a chance to raze it and cripple the Zulu production capacity as soon as the war starts. But I really think we should concentrate on naval and air power as soon as we get combustion/mass production/flight. The trick is to make sure all the Zulu productive capacity ends up on the bottom of the sea. Then once their navy's out of the way, battleships, bombers, and marines can wreak havoc on their coastal cities.

p.s. Can you put explorers in an army? We could land a couple infantry armies (plus artillery and flak for defense) in Zululand and use them to shield an explorer army while it auto-pillages its way through their territory.

I didn't pay much attention to what tech we were researching because I thought we were going to steal techs. We could also build univs and self-research, but let's make up our minds.

I was hoping we could use the Ottomans as an easy launching pad for attacking the Zulu. We should grab one of their cities on the Zulu continent before they expire.

Yes, I think you can buiild explorer armies, and I believe they can pillage 9/turn!

We don't appear to be using many of our workers. Can we join them to some cities?

Is stealing tech cheaper than self-researching? I've never used it before. I will say that if we self-research, we also get culture from the universities, and we certainly need that if we plan to take and hold any more territory. Plus once we achieve tech parity we'll have to build the unis anyway to keep advancing. I don't have any problem with joining some of our non-Incan workers to cities. The Incan workers, of course, would only riot. Just make sure we have enough left to handle pollution when it shows up, especially if we decide to build coal plants in our high-production cities in preparation for the space race.

Sorry, I never knew I was up as the roster wasn't posted. I got it.

Turn 0 - 1650 AD
Looks good.

Turn 1 - 1655 AD
Kill Incan units in our territory.
Send a combat settler protected by an army into Incan lands so we can bombard Vitcos without putting our artillery in Incan territory.

Turn 2 - 1660 AD
We need more artillery...
More elite wins but still no more MGLs.

Turn 3 - 1665 AD
Propaganda strikes New Bonn ... upsets some citizens.
Vilcabamba is reduced to 1 or 2 one hitpoint infantries...

Turn 4 - 1670 AD
Capture Vilcabamba. Now artillery can start hitting Cuzco.
Vitcos is reduced to some 1 HP Infantry...

Turn 5 - 1675 AD
Capture Vitcos.

TimBentley is UP!

Got it. I'll play today or tomorrow.

I just got a chance to look at the save, in case Tim hasn't started his turns yet.

-A couple cities are building cavalry without barracks. Is Tim going to capture Sun Tzu within the next 5 turns? Maybe they could build artillery?

-Can we really afford to hold those two captured cities? They practically scream flip risk. I'd abandon them before pressing enter rather than risk losing troops to a flip.

-We need settlers to found cities to deny Incan guerillas use of the neutral rail system.

-I'd put an inf under the wounded cavalry army to defend it if it gets further wounded.

-The Ottomans have 22 gpt to give us for tech (probably in a golden age), though they aren't long for this world anyway. Is it worth gifting them a city to keep them alive for a free modern tech? (assuming they don't get the same one we do)

And good luck sacking Cuzco :ar15:

Also, we may do well to build some hospitals. We're using all the land tiles in our core, but certain cities could work more sea tiles for our economy. More to the point, we need a few hospitals for battlefield medicine, which will be very useful when we have long-term pillagers running around in Zulu territory needing to heal.

Sorry, I haven't had the opportunity to play yet. I should play this afternoon however.

No hurry, I probably won't be able to play till tomorrow (Monday) night.

1675(0)-do some MM, notably switching regular cav builds and getting Piedras Negras to 43spt
sell medicine to Ottomans for free artistry, WM, 22gpt, 79g
abandon Vilcabamba
IBT-Zulu, Ottomans sign peace
Piedras Negras riots
1680(1)-Abandon Vitcos, replace it with New Brandenburg
kill some Incan guerillas
cancel MA with Zulu against Inca
IBT-learn refining, start on steel
1685(2)-We have two oil, Inca have one by Ollantaytambo, Rome has none, Ottomans have none, Zulu have three
Found Berlin 2 near where Vilcabamba was
lose four cavs capturing Ollantaytambo
1690(3)-Abandon Ollantaytambo
IBT-Inca, Zulu sign peace
New Bapedi riots
1695(4)-zzz
IBT-buy dyes from Rome for saltpeter, oil, spices
Rome get a MGL, leave it undefended, Zulu kill it
1700(5)-Found Leipzig 2 close to Tiwanaku
Found Hamburg 2

Notes: Build more hospitals and stock exchanges so Battlefield Medicine and Wall Street can be built
Leipzig should build a coal plant next to get armies out faster

Playing 1715 and will probably make a grab for Cuzco. We've taken Tiwaniku and Sun Tzu. Will finish tomorrow.

Preflight (1700): Switch some cav builds to inf.

IBT: Romans pop the Zulu city on our continent.

Two Incan guerillas and some ships in the far southeast.

1705: Berlin CIA -> Hospital. Tikal lib -> market. Hamburg factory -> cav. Konig army -> coal. Quir market -> univ. Heidel cav -> inf. Piedras cav -> cav. Uax fact -> univ. Cuello cav -> cav. Stutt cav -> inf. New Ulund cav -> univ.

Romans get Hoover.

Lots of bombardment of Cuzco and Tiwa. Capture Tiwa (nearly losing a 16 HP army to a 2/3 inf). It has a market, bank, and stock exchange and ... Sun Tzu's Art of War! Tiwa is 12-25% to flip so I leave it empty for now.

Foreign workers line the coast to prevent a landing. Join lots of our workers to cities.

IBT: A third Incan fleet nears the southeast. The other two can't find a place to land. Two guerillas next to Tiwa.

1710: Liepzig factory -> inf. Munich harbor -> cav. Nuremberg univ -> hospital. Cologne cav -> aque. New Bremen settler -> market. New Salz inf -> stock. Tulum cav -> univ. Dortmund fact -> univ. New Koenig settler -> univ. Dusseldorf arty -> market. New Munich cav -> aque.

No flips.

Put a settler two east of Cuzco, so I can bring more arty to bear and not attack cross-river. Also make sure coasts are covered in the southeast, and use some spare arty to nail ships.

IBT: Two wounded fleets high-tail it for home, but the third moves round the horn in the southeast.

1715: PN cav -> bank. Coba inf -> inf. New Berlin cav -> hosp. Zunguin cav -> cav. New Cologne settler -> settler. New Stutt court -> aque.

Propaganda upsets Tiwa. They were plenty upset already.

Found German Guyana near Cuzco. It's 1-2% to flip, or 18 units which I could do.

Can now bring all arty and around 20 cav to bear on Cuzco. Our artys pound it hard and redline the seven or so inf and one rifle. Get leader (Richtofen), who forms an army. Cuzco falls after most cav attack, and we control Shakes and Sistine!

This frees up the units guarding the arty stack.

Cuzco is incredibly likely to flip (20-40%) so I vacate it.

IBT: Zulu come a-callin' for alliance against Rome. I laugh at that, but they would give Steel for spices. That cuts a turn off our science.

I don't do this, but it's worth considering as it's probably 20 turns till we can take on the Zulu. On the other hand, they are the game leaders.

1720: Augsberg lib -> court. Bremen market -> aque. One cavalry.

Inca try to steal our world map, as if that would help them.

No flips.

Found Mannheim to fill in a gap pretty far back of the front line.

Not going to do much this turn, just wipe a few units. Get a GL stomping an inf on a settler. This one I leave to the next player.

IBT: Some Incan units land east of Hamburg, but not on a road so they can't do much.

1725: Get Steel. Combustion in 7.

Lazapa harbor -> market. Dresden courthouse -> aqueduct. New Bonn aqueduct -> harbor. Hannover factory -> bank. Juli market -> univ. Amatikulu aqueduct -> cav. Brandenburg police -> cav. New Liepzig factory -> cav. New Hannover market -> settler. One infantry, one cavalry.

Splat the Incan landing, which turns out to have been an infantry/settler pair.

Notes for the next player:
- Cuzco and Tiwa are big flip risks (20-40% and 8-16% respectively), but they have very useful wonders so don't raze them.
- The unused artys, and some spare units, are gathered in the desert near Cuello. There's a cavalry army in German Guyana, but if you move it, bring in more units -- GG needs 7 units to be flip-safe.
- Note the settler, leader, and army in Hamburg. We should probably save the army for panzers.
- We need more stock exchanges!

We haven't had a screen shot in awhile:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1725_AD.JPG

The save: 1725 AD. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1725_AD.SAV)

Got it. I'll try to play a couple turns tonight and the rest tomorrow.

IBT - Egads! Romans with tanks!
Palenque university -> factory
Konigsburg coal plant -> hospital
Munich cavalry -> university
New Bapedi Marketplace -> university
Dortmund university -> police
New Nuremburg cavalry -> factory

1730 AD - Bombard Corihuaryachina with artillery, take it, losing 2 cavs in the process to 1 hp infantry with dumb RNG luck. Keep it for Leo’s sake.
.Move another arty stack in range if Vilcas
Trade saltpeter and gems to the Ottomans for 9 gpt. Maybe they’ll build cavalry and annoy the Zulu.
Irrigate a couple tiles near Munich and Stuttgart. It’ll slow production a bit but in the long run, the extra growth will help the economy.
Switch Stuttgart to Cavalry

IBT - Berlin hospital -> stock exchange
Leipzig galleon -> inf
Frankfurt hospital -> bank
Piedas Negras bank -> hospital
Uaxactun uni -> settler
Stuttgart cav -> factory
Aachen uni -> market

1735 AD - Turn Sci to 60%
Bombard Vilcas and raze it, losing 1 cav in the process.
Pillage the mine on our continent within Atico’s productive radius. Bombard the one on their island.
Trade Zulu spices for 39 gpt. We won’t invade until we’ve built a lot of panzers.
Put some of our inactive workers to work in captured territory. Join a few others to cities.

IBT - Tiwanaku revolts
Heidelberg inf -> factory
New Bonn harbor -> courthouse
Coba inf -> factory
New Berlin temple -> police

1740 AD - Take back Tiwanaku. It is now at size 1. I risk putting some units in there to quell the last resistor. Also join 2 German workers to get a German majority.

IBT - We lose our Zulu furs. Shaka doesn’t want any deal for furs. I renegotiate wines for 24 gpt.
Quiringua uni -> factory
Uaxacutun settler -> granary
Cuello cav -> uni
Zunguin cav -> granary
New Hannover settler -> settler

1745 AD - Lux to 30% to replace lost furs
Then I see how much that hurts our cash flow and just buy the furs back for a lump sum of ~800 and put our lux back at 10%. We’ll come out ahead if the Zulu don’t DOW in the meantime.

IBT - Inca DOW Zulu
Rome offers us a MPP. I decline because we don’t want to fight Zulu yet. I do give them horses for 6 gpt. We need all the gpt we can scrounge.
Leipzig inf -> arty
New Dortmund lib -> courthouse
Konigsburg hospital -> army
Tulum uni -> factory
New Zimbabwe aqueduct -> market
New Leipzig cav -> uni
New Konigsburg cavalry -> Battlefield Medicine
New Munich aqueduct -> market

1750 AD - Hengest rushed Battlefield Med in New Konigsburg
Clean pollution and build terrain improvements in former Inca lands.


Notes:
- I dealt with the Zulu because it would be a major blow to our economy to lose the furs. Buying them for a lump sum means the Zulu won’t have gpt to spend on research. They’ll probably blow it on an espionage mission against Rome. Right now we need fast research more than they do.
- 2 ships are en route to the remaining Incan islands. Next turn they will be upgradeable to transports. The Incan navy appears to be farther north, but try to leave them in cities at the end of the turn when they get any closer.
- The Inca have flight. I saw them build some flak. I suggest taking the 3 islands near the coast, then extorting flight in exchange for peace, leaving them with Buffalo. Our culture will overtake theirs eventually and the flip risk will decrease without us exterminating them. And if we’re lucky, the Zulu will finish them off anyway.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Inca.jpg

- Most of our inactive troops are garrisoned in New Berlin2.
- I included a map of potential Zulu targets for a pillaging raid. Fortunately for us, it looks as if they’ve done an awful job of developing potential high-shield cities, to the point that I can’t find a good target that’s large, mountainous, and near the capital. They do have several high-trade cities but no super shield cities. There are however several targets that could be pillaged/razed to give us an edge in the space race.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Pillage.jpg

- Doesn’t it look like our world used to be one big pangea that later split up into Germany, Zululand, and Rome?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/geography.jpg

Oops, I forgot the save.

Good luck, Comerades. Long live the Revolution!

Got it, will play tomorrow.

I'll be without internet access for about a week, so just put me on autoskip.

Turn 0 - 1750 AD
Fill an empty army. We'll need 4 transports for armies to pillage.

IBT: We can research Mass Production in 5 turns with 28 gpt. Good.

Turn 1 - 1752 AD
Upgrade a galley to transport.
Send 2 galleons on their way to be upgraded.

Turn 2 - 1754 AD
Sign peace with the Inca and get Flight in exchange for 496 gold.
Zulus move a suspicious Infantry in our territory...

Turn 3 - 1756 AD
Block the path of the the Infantry with Armies.

Turn 4 - 1758 AD
It's suspicious.

Turn 5 - 1760 AD
I ask the Zulus remove it or declare war. They declare, but they lose 3 luxuries we were giving them in the process. :D We just loose some gpt.
We land an army.

IBT: We learn Mass Production, start Motorized Transportation.

Turn 6 - 1762 AD
Land two more armies.

Turn 7 - 1764 AD
Land another army.

IBT: Lose an army. Bombers and artillery take off lots of hitpoints. :( Tanks are brutal as well.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1766AD.SAV)

Quitter's Comment:Why not post a picture or two?

Edit:And land units as crazy as you can,4 transport are a little too thin.I guess you need Inf and Arty more than ever,even if you have Panzers,their move 3 and blitz only works if enemy is yellow or redlined.
Notice Zulu resources?Pillage as many Oil spots as possible.

Got it (sorry for the delay). May play tonight or tomorrow (Tuesday PDT); very busy today).

1766: How many turns are we playing? I'll do 5-7 depending on how long the turns take.

Not much left to do this turn. Put two warriors in Corihuay and Cuzco to stifle resistance. Armies are gonna die.

Army is 19 cav (eight of them about to die), 22 inf. Moto in 5. We need many more units! I'm not sending over any more units till we can build up a much larger force.

IBT: One army bombed and killed by tank.

1768: Cuzco lib -> temple. Essen cav -> cav. Tikal harbor -> aque. Liep arty -> cruiser. Lazapa market -> cav. Cuello market -> cav. New Bremen market -> aque. New Liep flak -> inf.

One cav army left in the northeast of Zuludom. It pillages four grasslands (including coal) and hides in hills.

IBT: One bombing of Essen, apparently no effect.

1770: New Frank court -> temple. Corihuay univ (even though half the city is resisting!) -> temple. Piedras transport -> carrier. Salz cav (damn, thought I switched all cav buils) -> cav. Zunguin transport -> cav. New Bap bomber -> flak. Brand inf -> univ. Dort flak -> cav. Munich something -> flak.

Four more pillages and hide in the mountains.

IBT: Nothing. No news is good news.

1772: Augs setter -> settler. Ham 2 lib -> court. Hamburg the original stock -> cav. Hannover flak -> cav. Uax flak -> cav. Amatik transport -> transport. New Hannover settler -> court. Munich 2 lib -> court.

Crater bananas near Chicago. More pillaging.

Found Kiel on hills east of Tikal.

IBT: One bombing of the remaining pillagers. Inca and Zulu make peace. Zulu ships approach the capital; I don't mind for obvious reasons.

1774: Zulu bomber -> bomber. Frankfurt bank -> cav. Munich cav (stop it!) -> cav. Nurem hosp -> flak. New Bonn flak -> flak. Cologne univ -> fighter. Juli bomber -> fighter. New Berlin hosp -> cav. Dusseldorf flak -> univ.

Do the Zulu have marines? Fortunately, no. So I fill the coasts with workers. We'll play the shuffle game for two turns, then they can land.

Found Salzgitter north of Hispalis.

IBT: Now Rome and Zulu make peace. But then Rome declares on the Zulu!

1776: Get Moto; next is Atomic Theorems. Corihuay ends its resistance as it builds its third culture producing building. Everything switches to panzer.

IBT: Last army dies. Sulu destroy Ottomans. The damned Zulu won't land! Another fleet appears; I will have to vacate more coastline. Look, our capital's empty.

1778: Cuzco temple -> univ. Coba factory. First two panzers. All production switching to panzers where appropriate.

Loss of war happiness.

IBT: Finally! The Zulu land a ton of units next to Berlin. Three cav, three iinf, six tanks.

1780: Palenque factory, Liepzig cruiser, P. Negras carrier, Stutt fact, one more panzer.

Time to deal with the invaders and get us a golden age. Pound the invasion force mercilessly and attack. All three panzers promote and we are making tons of money and shields.

--

Notes for the next player:
- We are building an invasion fleet in the southeast: Carriers and transports. Add a cruiser or two.
- The other two transports are there in case we want to attack the Inca.
- Remember to starve Corihuay and Cuzco every turn.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1780AD.SAV)

If Tim's still away, I guess I'm up now? I'll try to have it done by the weekend.

Today is the 3 month anniversary of this thread, or 1/4 of the year. Not sure if this is good or bad. :lol:

I think I already skipped Tim by playing. Have at it!

1780 AD - We’re not building planes?
Hamburg and Coba switched to airports. These will be nice to have in any case if we take off-continent cities, and we get them for half price.
Don’t want to make any more changes until I get to see what the Zulu’s are up to.

IBT - Berlin Panzer -> airport
Tiwanaku temple -> Police
Corihuarachina market -> panzer
Hamburg airport -> bomber
Berlin2 aqueduct -> courthouse
Konigsburg army -> army
Quiringua factory -> courthouse
Heidelburg factory -> bank
Hannover panzer -> flak
Uaxactun cav -> destroyer
Tulum factory -> harbor
Brandenburg panzer -> airport
New Nuremburg factory -> panzer
New Nuremburg 2 Library -> courthouse

1782 AD - Switch Nuremburg to Comm dock. It’s not a big production center anyway
Move Cruiser from Frankfurt to Nuremburg so it’s under the flak.
Bomb away Zulu iron near San Fransisco
Rebase berlin bombers to Zungun. Can they hit the Zulu coast?
Switch New Munich to battleship

Ibt - Silence from Zululand
New Frankfurt temple -> library
Frankfurt2 library -> courthouse
Calakmul panzer -> market
Munich panzer -> destroyer
Cuello panzer -> uni
Tulum harbor -> carrier
Coba airport -> bomber
New Bapedi panzer -> cruiser
Dortmund panzer -> battleship
New Konigsburg bank -> factory
Aachen market -> panzer
New Cologne settler -> market
Heidelberg2 lib -> courthouse

1784 AD - Bomb gold near Anatalya, shoot down a fighter
Bomb Chicago’s last connection to the road system
Switch Salzburg to flak. How about a flak army with the invaders?


IBT Naval battle offshore Zulu Vs. Rome
Research Atomic theory -> Electronics
Mannheim uni -> courthouse
Tikal aqueduct -> courthouse
Leipzig panzer -> flak
Piedas Negras panzer -> harbor
Bremen panzer -> panzer
Bonn transport -> flak
Juli fighter -> panzer
Salzburg flak -> factory
New Hamburg Wall street -> factory
New Berlin panzer -> factory
Amatikulu transport -> destroyer
Brandenburg airport -> fighter
New Leipzig panzer -> panzer

1786 AD - Recon in the vicinity of the naval battle. No Zulu in sight. Must be subs
Bomb rails near Houston. Lose one bomber to a fighter
Move a New Fighte rto cover Zunguin
Plant a spy in Zimbabwe ~3000 gold to steal tech

IBT - Rome sinks Zulu sub
Zulu ships approach Berlin
Berlin airport -> bomber
Palenque panzer -> airport
Corihuarichina panzer -> panzer
New Dortmund court -> uni
Quiringua courthouse -> cruiser
Frankfurt panzer -> comm.. dock.
New Bonn panzer -> destroyer
Piedas Negras harbor -> carrier
Cologne fighter -> factory
Hannover flak -> comm.. dock
Stuttgart panzer -> bomber
New Stuttgart panzer -> panzer
Volcano near Konigsburg2 erupts. No casualties

1788 AD - Bombard incoming ships with coastal arty. Sink 1 destroyer with a cruiser
Fighter Rebase to Nuremburg

IBT - Zulu bomb Zunguin.
Zulu tanks land near Berlin
Cuzco uni -> market
Leipzig flak -> destroyer
Hamburg bomber -> bomber
Lazapa panzer -> courthouse
New Salzburg panzer -> market
New Bremen aqueduct -> panzer
Zunguin carrier -> cruiser
Brandenburg fighter -> bomber
Dusseldorf university -> courthouse
New Nuremburg panzer -> panzer

1790 AD - Kill 3 Zulu tanks and 1 cav. 3 panzers promote
Lose another bomber to an interceptor.

IBT - Battleship approaching
New Frankfurt library -> market
Essen panzer -> transport
Leipzig flak -> panzer
Augsburg market -> uni
German Guyana panzer -> courthouse
Berlin2 courthouse -> panzer
New Brandenburg aqueduct -> market
Dresden panzer -> harbor
Uaxactun destroyer -> cruiser
Coba bomber -> bomber
New Ulundi panzer -> panzer
New Heidelberg panzer -> destroyer
Munich2 courthouse -> bomber

1792 AD - Cruiser bombards battleship near Nuremburg then ducks back into the city
Whip Cuzco to get a bomber


Notes:
- An uneventful turn. I didn’t dare to invade yet without more troops.
- We have 30 panzers, 13 flaks, 26 artillery, 2 carriers, 9 transports, and 4 bombers. We really need an airforce at this point. I suggest the next person up build lots of bombers and a few more ships.
- I built destroyers too so we can sweep for subs around the fleet. That sneak attack ability makes them brutal to our transports..
- I started some civilian builds too. This war isn’t Armageddon, so we have to keep our eyes on the future, especially if we’re doing a space race.
- The Zulus have fighters around their coasts. Be wary of bombing them. Since they have oly 4 bombers at the moment I’m not too worried about bombing ships.
- We have a spy in Zimbabwe. Stealing tech costs ~3000 to do safely. If we start building up money we can’t spend (no cash-rushing) this may be an option.
- The Zulu have >70 tanks. I suggest getting some more bombers and bombing out the roads on a 3-tile radius around the landing zone so we can’t get attacked the same turn we land. Then we counterattack all the tanks that try to reach us. With those 3-move panzers, we could even attack and then board the transport on the same turn if they send too many tanks against us.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bombzone.jpg

sorry,pics unavailable.

Can I get a swap with floyd? I'm up in another SG tonight, and have some very important work infront of me? Thanks in advance.

He was gone last week but should be back now. Tim, can you swap with Ginger?

Yes, that would work.

Sorry, I can't get my computer hooked up to the internet, nor can I find a way to get files to and from one that can (I wouldn't have minded a floppy drive). Thus, I'll have to drop out.

Ok, I got it, will play tomorrow.

Turn 0 - 1792 AD
Move some troops around.

IBT: We get Electronics and enter the next age! We get Ecology as our free tech. Start on Rocketry in 6 turns for Mobile Sams, Jet Fighters, and Cruise Missles.

Turn 1 - 1794 AD
Sell Ecology to the Romans for Rocketry, Facism, WM, and 1162 gold. We can't even get 1 gpt.
Start Synthetic Fibers in 9 turns.
There's one source of Aluminum on our continent, that we have. Zulus have 5! :(
Kill a Zulu Battleship.
Form 2 four Panzer armies. They have a strength of 16 + (16 * 4 / 4) = 32 when attacking. But we'll first use them for pillaging.
We have 7 transports on the eastern coast. That's enough for 2 armies, and 32 panzers. That's good, but we need room for infantry and artillery to hold the beachhead cities we take. I'm looking for about at least 3 more transports. And more bombers.

Turn 2 - 1796 AD
The Zulus only have 7 bombers, 7 fighters, and 2 jet fighters for an air force! Our armies would be able to pillage freely.
Form another panzer army.
Our landing zones have been bombed, and some surrounding tiles.

Turn 3 - 1798 AD
I load up 4 transports for the northern landing zone with 2 armies, 8 panzers, and 4 flaks.
Load 4 transports for the southern landing zone with 1 army, 12 panzers, 1 settler, 3 artillery and 2 infantry.
Lose 1 bomber.
I cross my fingers and press enter.

IBT: Kill a bomber.
A transport drops off a few tanks and 1 cavalry.

Turn 4 - 1800 AD
First things first: get Zulus off our land.
Second: we drop all the units off, kill a couple of defenders in Houston. It's now defended by a 1HP conscript infantry. :D
We have a settler in the south for a raze + replace job. Rush an airport asap.
I'll let someone else have all the fun!

About rushing that airport. We can't cash-rush under communism, so no airport if we raze/replace. We could keep the Zulu city and pop-rush from that, though it's bound to flip eventually. What's our position on the worker dogpile?

Also, I suggest eventually making our way to the Zulu core. These outlying cities are probably horridly corrupt, and losing them won't hurt the Zulu that much, beyond having to build lots of troops.

Finally, we should probably start a pre-build for the UN. I'm afraid of what might happen if we let Rome get it. If we're not going to build the UN we need to at least eradicate the Maya so they can't vote against us.

Why airport?Have some slaves for airfield!If we want to connect resource to our Soviet regime,build 30s harbor.

I think that an airfield can be used to base planes, but cannot be used for airlifting ground units.

I'm up next as Tim dropped out. The new roster is

Floyd
Gato
Ginger

I took Houston, and did the raze'n'replace, only to have Houston retaken and the new city demolished by a swarm of tanks.

There were nowhere near enough units to push the Zulu around.

Preflight (1800): Nothing much to do, so I press enter.

IBT: No attacks except for a cruise missile. Workers get captured.

Lots and lots of units. I concentrate on Panzers. Also up science spending since we can't spend the money on rushes.

1802: Grab Houston. It's a flip risk and requires 54 units to garrison, but I keep it as it can't be attacked by tanks once I rip on rail from Atlanta.

Also take Ibabango, which is a similar flip risk, so it is razed. Move the settler on the ruins. Decide to stack everything on it, which means I might lose the three artys. They can be replaced.

Rebase lots of bombers on carriers. Change lots of production to panzers; we need land units.

IBT: Two panzers north of Houston killed. Masses of units gather north of Houston. Zulu also land units near Houston. Another transport threads between naval units near Dresden.

1804: Lots and lots of panzers.

Sink the Dresden transport.

Found German Southwest Africa near Ngome. Have enough units so it won't flip.

Kill lots of units near Houston, but there's no way I can keep it. So I kill as many units as possible and abandon the city.

IBT: The Zulu take Houston. They also, after MANY attacks, take GSWA.

All that's left in the south is two panzers on a mountain. Enough of these divided attacks; if we want to hold Zulu territory we must land in mass, in one place.

1806: Start Brandenburg on UN prebuild.

Drop off more units near Houston. Kill some single Zulu units. Use the last two panzers in the south to kill wounded units, load them up on transports and then sail north.

IBT: Attacks not so bad. The Zulu bomb the stack over Houston, but they lose three bombers to ackack and a carrier-based fighter. They also drive lots of tanks in the flatland north of Houston.

1808: Bomb a stack of 12 or so tanks north of Houston and lay them waste. Drop off more units and artillery.

The good news is the Zulu have only 40 tanks. The bad news is they have 98 mech infantry!

IBT: Furious attacks on the mountain two NE of Houston. It's taken after Zulu suffer many casualties (and after they stupidly move past the mountain on the way to Houston, taking one or even two hits).

Get Synth, go for Fission to get UN. Will get Fission in 7 turns.

Get an army and some MA's.

Another stack of units north of Houston. Bomb them (lose three bombers to jet fighters), but our units are worn out and we have to use wounded units to finish off all the Zulu. Still, we do, and they now have 27 tanks.

---

In World War I the Germans tried to bleed the French white at Verdun. We have our own Verdun, the mountain northeast of Houston. The Zulu like to send their tanks into the plains north of Houston, where we can bomb, bombard, and demolish them. The Zulu lose 12 tanks a turn this way; in two turns their offense will be toast, and we can grind our way through their territory.

Some notes for Gato:
- Note the prebuild of a Palace for the UN.
- I saw a Zulu transport leaving Houston to the west in 1810, but couldn't pick him up later.
- Concentrate all forces in one spot! There are lots of transports and escort naval units; build modern armor and ferry them east.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/vd_1810.JPG

The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1810_AD.SAV)

Got it. I'll be out of town this weekend, so I might not be able to play. If I don't get anything done tomorrow evening, you can skip me.

Oops,I guess you guys are winning,except a bunch of nukes from Zulu.
You want a UN win?That's too easy,maybe a dom/SS.Disconnect Uranium once you find it out.

It looks as if I won't get to play before I leave, so you have my permission to skip me this time. Good luck to Ginger.

@Plarq
I thought we were going for a spaceship, or maybe domination if there's a miracle on the Zulu continent. The UN build is so that Rome doesn't build the UN and win with the help of the Inca vote. I don't think we plan to hold the vote ourselves. Actually with all the wars going on, Rome might not be able to win a vote either, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

Notice that Airfield can airlift Non-Mechanic units(Inf,TOW and worker).So build airfield with slaves will do some miracle.

Ginger, any news?

Looks like it's just you, me, and Gato. Gato skipped.

Sorry, didn't see Gato's skip. Will play this either tonight or tomorrow.

Turn 0 - 1810 AD
Everything is good.

IBT: Kill a tank. Lose a panzer.

Turn 1 - 1812 AD
Lose a bomber.
We raze Houston.
Sink a destroyer.
Drop off a brand new 4 MA army. :D

IBT: Lose a panzer. Kill a cav.

Turn 2 - 1814 AD
Drop off a lot more units. Send the MA army to pillage. Next turn we will try to attack Nagoya when the armies heal.

Turn 3 - 1816 AD
Move our SoD towards Nagoya.
Drop off 12 more units...

IBT: Kill a mech, tank. Zulus drop off a couple tanks on our soil.
I hate pollution!
Rome starts the UN.

Turn 4 - 1818 AD
Use artillery to bombard. Lots of bombers are shot down. :(
Raze Nagoya.
Railroads from north Zululand are cut off from south Zululand.

Turn 5 - 1820 AD
A stack of 20+ tanks and mech infs appear. Let's see what we can do to get rid of them.
They are now down to a few scatter tanks and mechs.

Have the settler where Houston once was build a city and then build an airport. Rush with some old units if you want to hurry it.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1820AD.SAV)

Got it (unless you want a shot at it Gato). Will play tonight or tomorrow.

Preflight (1820): Kill two inf on a mountain (netting an arty) and three tanks.

IBT: Some tanks and MA's move north of Kyoto. Some attacks, which don't hurt much. Landing in the southwest imminent.

1822: End of GA. This causes some rioting; I scroll ahead and fix problems. Builds are just a modern armor and TOW. Lux to 30%, which may be somewhat wasteful.

Found Deutsch Afrika near the old Houston site. It needs 13 units to be flip-proof: Done.

IBT: Zulu wants to talk. I want to fight.

1824: Lots of attacks on units on a mountain, three NE of DA. We hold the square though some units get chewed up. Zulu land six tanks near Leipzig.

We get Fission. Next is Computers. Several units and an army.

We also get a palace expansion, which is the first I've seen -- and no fewer than 16 palace parts!

Want to make a deal, but Rome has no money. Lower lux back to 20 and MM a lot. Computers in 10.

IBT: Not very much.

1826: Lots of MA's. Convert some builds to settlers.

Put units in place to attack Atlanta next turn.

IBT: Yet another fleet in the southwest. No landings. A stack of four mechs and four tanks drives north of Kyoto.

1828: Build a settler and seven or so MA's.

Arty bombardment of Atlanta (defended by four mechs, two veteran) goes well and the city is captured and razed. This gives us no fewer than 16 workers. Replacing this city will give us silks!

IBT: The fleets near Berlin drive off. I doubt they had any units.

1830: Join three Zulu to Deutsch Afrika and hurry a harbor. (No reason to hurry an airport;
units are getting through just fine via the sea route.)

The pillaging army cuts off northeast Zululand from the northwest.

Will leave the preparation for the attack on Chicago to the next player. Move the settler two north and one west, so it is two squares east of Chicago. Make sure the artys and cruise missiles will be able to get there.

Note that in 1832, when the harbor is built, you'll be able to rail squares in Zululand.

The battlefield:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/vd_1830.JPG

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1830.SAV)

Wow, I guess I chose a bad time to be away. I'll probably play tomorrow evening.

As for roading in Zululand, I wouldn't do it except within our borders. The last thing we need is Zulu tanks railroading around everywhere. I'd say our priority is continuing to carve their road network up into small pieces to cripple their resource situation. We can't pillage every rubber and oil, but we can cut as many cities as possible off from rubber and oil.

1830 AD - Move most of our artillery within range of Chicago, along with a load of tanks. Kill one Zulu tank, losing one MA, move a few other MA and Panzers within range of a small Zulu stack.

IBT - Tanks and M.I. start to swarm us. A MA gets injured by artillery
Mannheim market -> artillery
Leipzig2 M.A. -> courthouse
Augsburg settler -> settler
Quiringua M.A. -> destroyer
Deutsch Afrika harbor -> library
New Bonn M.A. -> M.A.
Coba bomber -> bomber
New Hamburg M.A. -> M.A.
Amatikulu harbor -> Mobile SAM
New Konigsburg M.A. -> M.A.
New Munich M.A. -> destroyer

1832 AD - Bombard and raze Chicago, losing 3 M.A.
Kill one stack of attacking tanks/M.A.
Kill the Zulu artillery stack, capture 4 artillery, which get loaded onto a transport and dropped off in Deutsch Afrika
Pillage the oil near Boston
2 Armies move west through the mountains. The oil near New York is their last.
Build Cologne 2 on the coal near the ruins of Chicago
Bomber in Nuremburg sinks a redlined destroyer
Move M.A. around to anticipate the Zulu attack

IBT - Zulu attack hits our forces. We lose a M.A. and a panzer. Our new city gets razed, as I was too stupid to realize they could reach it.
Cuzco settler -> granary
Berlin bomber -> bomber
Corihuarichina M.A. -> M.A.
Hamburg bomber -> bomber
Calakmul M.A. -> artillery
Hannover M.A. -> M.A.
Cuello M.A. -> M.A.
Salzburg M.A. -> M.A.
Uxmal destroyer -> destroyer
New Bapedi mobile SAM -> settler
New Leipzig temple -> settler

1834 AD - One M.A. army takes the mountain near Kagoshima to prevent more tanks from reaching the Western rail net
2 more M.A. make a break for the last oil
Position M.A. on the mountains to keep those Zulu mech inf out.
Artillery and 2 armies move in position to attack Boston

IBT - Zulu mech inf try to outflank us. But we control the high ground. Minor skirmishes, we lose 2 M.A. but kill a couple tanks too
Leipzig M.A. -> M.A.
Lazapa M.A. -> aqueduct
Heidelberg M.A. -> M.A.
Piedas Negras M.A. -> M.A.
A couple more M.A. as well

1836 AD - Bombard and raze Boston
Found Firebase A in the hills NE of Deutsch Afrika
Garrison firebase A with a wounded panzer army, a couple M.A., and a SAM
Kill off a few more attacking zulu units

IBT - More Zulu tanks charge us
SAM in firebase A downs 2 Zulu bombers
Tiwanaku M.A. -> courthouse
Dresden library -> hospital
Tulum M.A. -> M.A.
New Berlin M.A. -> M.A.
Dortmund M.A. -> M.A.
New Leipzig settler -> granary
Munich 2 M.A. -> M.A.
Nuremburg 2 M.A. -> Market

1838 AD - Pillage the last Zulu oil. The Zulu have 20 tanks and will build no more
Counterattack Zulu tankls, get a leader
Move artillery toward

IBT - More mech inf!
German Guyana aqueduct -> harbor
New Bapedi settler -> factory
New Stuttgart market -> settler
Heidelburg 2 settler -> settler
4 more M.A.

1840 A.D. - Build Cologne 2 on the old site of Chicago
Raze San fransisco
Move more M.A. into the northern mountain range.

Notes:
- There are 12 zulu tanks left. Try to kill them all.
- There are 99 mech inf, which they will probably use as imitation tanks.
- I’d suggest razing Kagoshima next, or Washington. (red arrows)
- We can pick up a couple luxuries from the Zulu continent by placing more cities. (blue circles)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/front.jpg

I got it, will play tonight or tomorrow. Very nice progress.

Turn 0 - 1840 AD
The Zulus only have 14 workers and 1 slave. The lower I can get this, the better. This will be a priority.
My other priority will be to raze Kyoto, since we can reach it with artillery from our territory. Then I'll go after Kagoshima.

IBT: Computers -> Space Flight

Turn 1 - 1842 AD
Artillery is awesome. So far we have lost no units.
I get lucky and:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VDmgl2.JPG

Rommel is turned into an army.
We raze Kyoto.
We raze Washington.
We raze Kagoshima.
We raze New York.
We raze Seattle.
We raze Philadelphia.
We raze Miami.
All cities west of that main portion of Zululand are gone. Firebase A is now the frontline. Next goal: Tokyo and Osaka, cutting off the rest of the cities in half.

Hannover 2 is founded in former Zulu lands, claiming silks.
Build a colony on incense, claim the incense for German troops.

Sorry I couldn't raze more cities. :D

IBT: Some pollution strikes.

Turn 2 - 1844 AD
Let's do a before and after picture of the kill zone:
Before:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VDbefore.JPG

We raze Osaka (also get a MGL too - he forms another army).
We raze Satsuma.

Bremen 2, Bonn 2 and Stuttgart 2 are formed to claim land. We are at 48%/60% land/pop for domination. I think Domination is very feasible.

After: :D
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VDafter.JPG

IBT: Rome builds the UN. :( Do they hold a vote? *crosses fingers* No! :D

Turn 3 - 1846 AD
Change UN build to SETI, due in 5...

We raze Aydin.
We raze Nara.
We raze Tokyo.
We raze Nagasaki.
We raze Edo.
We raze Uskudar.
We raze Bursa.
We raze Istanbul.
We raze Edrine.
We raze Izmit.

Salzburg 2 is founded. 49/63% land/pop.

Turn 4 - 1848 AD
Make an ivory colony.
Heal our troops.

Turn 5 - 1850 AD
Found tons of new cities after I disbanded old units in the homeland to make settlers.

We raze Mpondo.
We raze Umtata.
We raze Umfolozi.

Connect furs.

Sorry I could not finish the turn. It is pretty much done except shipping. We have 18 Modern Armors and 1 8/18 army ready to strike Zimbabwe next turn.

Perhaps it is time to start keeping rather than razing cities? Or should we continue to build settlers and replace? This game could be over in 10 turns... :)

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/VD_1840AD.SAV)

:eek:

Poor Zulus.

Yes, domination is only a matter of time now that they can't counterattack. Maybe we should get the Romans at war with everyone just in case they do decide to hold a vote sometime. It would be quite embarrassing to lose to a UN vote now. Then again we'll probaby have won by the time they get to that vote.

They could've had a vote in 1844 AD. So the next vote is in 11 years, or 1866 AD. We should probably win by then.

It's just me, Gato, and Ginger, right? I can't play tonight but I'll give it a go tomorrow (Thursday). Nice job!