---------------------------
INTRO - For 1st time readers
---------------------------

This thread was, at first, nothing more than a showoff of a really UGLY start position i had while making test-starts for my (still unfinished) mod. At first, i played the first turns without even having in mind to continue the game. Then i said to myself: why not? And so everything begun...

Why i'm saying so? Well, i find necessary to point out that, at the beginning, this thread wasn't intended to be something to put into the "Stories and Tales" section (it was moved only after the game ended). That's why, in the first pages, you'll find in it some discussion about bad starts, some casual chat and some spam. After the thread turned into the log of an epic game, the "extra" elements were almost disappeared.

Now let's go back to the story... where the original thread starts.

----------
END INTRO
----------

Title: Now THIS is a bad start!

... or it isn't?!?
My initial impulse was to reload, then i said to myself: why not give it a try?
I'm building military like crazy - an attack on Thebes and Memphis doesn't seem impossible.
Vanilla 1.29f, deity - bets are open.

What have you got there in Egitto Merda? :mischief:

That's a good start. Certainly worth playing.

Granted that my first instinct was to simply add Thebes and Memphis to your start, but seeing as how they're guarded by Hoplites, that's not gonna be so easy.....

I've had worse...believe me.
This is actually not as bad as it looks. You will get a lot of production from these cities later on in the game, and you still have the furs!

What have you got there in Egitto Merda? :mischief:
My one and only survival team... 6 archers, 1 spear, 2 warriors
Mission: :ar15: :egypt:

@BasketCase: spears. only greeks have hoplites .Lucky me! - with the greeks my chances would be much lower.

Amazingly, these are the only 2 cities built by egyptians - and it's 1425bc! No odd rules: standard map, 8 civs, continents, 70% water, temperate, normal, 4 billions. An extremely crazy distribution of starting points?!? :hmm:

The only chance is the "cultural assimilation" of Thebes and Memphis. But in this level the extra units at start forbid a very early attack. I'm going to toss everything at Thebes, but not now - it's 4:00 am here and tomorrow (well, today) i'm at work. Ah, the power of Civ Addiction... :D

How bizarre. You can actually see the Egyptians' far border in your screenshot.

Good luck.

Renata

Is there any room at all on the other side of egypt?

Do you have a 4000 BC save? Please post it or the earliest one you have.

I'd say get another settler out and place it in that little area that's sticking into egypt between the two cities. You gain a hill and 2 plains but could at least have a hope of keeping up build-wise.

I'd also chop that forest N of your second city; having it stuck at pop 3 isn't very useful, and even if the tile underneath isn't a BG, you get 1 more shield in the long run if you mine another hill.

I've seen worse starts...

I would try to get an alliance with another civ on the other side of the Egyptians. Then when they are fighting on a different front you are able to strike them from behind and capture one or two cities,

Shows how good my history is--Thebes and Memphis sounded like Greek cities. :crazyeye:

Thebes is a Greek city...

Thebes is a Greek city...

No??
__________________
Bush is :evil:

Thebes is a Greek city...
Well, yes and no... the whole matter is a bit confusing. Actually, there were two Thebes in the ancient history, one being greek and one being egyptian.
The Egyptian Thebes was the capital of Egypt during the middle kingdom. Later, the capital was moved north, but Thebes conserved the role of the main religious center of the nation.
The Greek Thebes was a famous city-state of the ancient Hellenic civilization, probably founded by Phoenicians. In the endless sequel of wars between greek cities, theban soldiers were able to defeat Spartans twice. They and also took an important role in defending Greece from the failed Persian invasion.

I would try to get an alliance with another civ on the other side of the Egyptians. Then when they are fighting on a different front you are able to strike them from behind and capture one or two cities
Useful advice, but i know no one. Dastardly Cleopatra has contact with 2 other civs, but won't sell them to me for a reasonable price. And since i'm going to attack her before it's too late, i cannot accept gpt deals or my rep will be toast. In this fight i'm alone.

1) - Is there any room at all on the other side of egypt?

2) - Do you have a 4000 BC save? Please post it or the earliest one you have.

3) - I'd say get another settler out and place it in that little area that's sticking into egypt between the two cities. You gain a hill and 2 plains but could at least have a hope of keeping up build-wise.

1) Dunno
2) I have it, but it's a mod in progress and i'll have to post about 20 megs of files with the save. Alas, this was a test-start, i wasn't supposed to play the game, but the odd start intrigued me so i decided to go on.
3) Good, but slow. I'm going directly with the military option before it's too late to do anything. But i'm going to chop the trees, 10 shields and 1 extra food are worth their weight in gold now.

@Renata: thank you! I need a bit of luck in order to earn anything. If the RNG gods hate me, i'll be dead meat.

Tonight i'm gonna play the game. Yes, it's Valentine's but i have no girlfriend at the moment... :( anyone interested? :D
I'll post an update when i have one.

No??
__________________
Bush is :evil:

Thebes is an Egyptian city off the nile. However, the city of Thebes in Greece was once the seat of one of the oldest Greecian city states.

Egypt shït? :lol:

@sennomulo: yes, exactly :D sometimes i name forts after my enemies, that way...

I played a few turns yesterday, before falling into the bed.
Captured Thebes! I lost only 1 archer, and a few were damaged but not killed. Strangely, there were only 3 regular spears to defend it. Their counterattack was easy to contain.
Egyptian cities were 3, not 2! There is at least another one sw of Thebes, and a fourth eastward. I saw the settler popping up from thebes the very same turn i attacked it. It went north, then west, then crossed the river and disappeared from my sight.

After a few turn i reinforced and headed for Memphis, which became the new capital. I was lucky to avoid some reinforcement. The stack west is 2 settlers with 3 escorts (damn them! they're spawning like rabbits!). This time, my proud archers suffered heavy casualties - 3 killed and 2 wounded, but Memphis finally fell to the might of the Roman empire.

It's 1100BC and i've never waged war that early. I didn't go into diplomacy yet. I'm gonna contact the Greeks and make peace with Egypt. My army at the moment is not a menace for anyone and i need these 20 turns of peace to strengthen myself and strike again! I should be able to grab some techs and at least a map from Cleo.

This egyptian weakness looks strange. The culprit is probably an early war with Greece. I guess i'll see it from the histograph after the game ends.

Here's a shot (scaled down to not hog up the page) 1152x864 -> 800x600

See, now was it that bad?? :p

I usually play the game out for a good 20 turns before I decide whether or not my starting position is good or not. Even if it is a poor location, I try to get an uperhand with contacts or wars.

Good job! Show those Egyptians what you're made of!

And see if you can build a city in that gap before the computer does!

When you are used to 26x26 tiled Pangarea map with 32 civs (averaging 10 tiles per civ) any start where there are no AI settlers visible feels good.

If you want a bad start, find Aeson's elusive Ice-Island Deity start thread! That was his 65k win I think (or was it another one?)

Anyway, I've had a nice start like that on Sid -- with Portugal 10 tiles away. Only had room for 2 cities (on an island).

No??I meant Thebes is a Greek city, knowing that Thebes is also an Egyptian city...

Maybe the Egyptian capital "Thebes" should have been given it's Egyptian name (I think it's "Wase") to avoid confusion with the Greek city "Thebes"?

I don't think I had a start as close together as that one, but I had one where I shared a small island with 3 civs...

Well on the plus side of this situation, if you fight aggressively enough you could well have 2 competitors out of the way before you reach the AD's leaving you with little to stand in the way of conquests of other civs

The glass is always half full

all the Egyptian cities in the game are given their Greek-ized names. Heliopolis, for example. "Polis" is Greek, not Egyptian at all.

I love bad start screenshots for some reason, anyone got any more?

Umm, I guess it's too late now, but I was going to mention this. You kept comenting about how egypt had only made two towns and Thebes was only defended by three spear. I'm betting this is because they were building the Pyramids! If it was me, I might have waited until they were finished before striking.

@Total War: yeah, it wasn't so ugly after all. Perhaps. Most of the map is still unknown, i hope the greeks are not too powerful. Their hoplites are a real pain, i'll need legions to deal with them.
BTW, i've been a little lucky. A failed assault on Thebes would have forced me to quit immediately. And a failure on Memphis would have meant almost the same. Memphis in on hill, this means spear defending at 3. I was betting on Memphis having not more than 3 regular spears, as Thebes. In this case, an army of 6 archers, 4 vets + 2 elites, mean a decent chance to win, and so it was. RNG gods have been merciful.

@sennomulo: good advice, i'm going to poop a settler ASAP and send it to the hill where the lone spearman is. I will grab more good territory and i'll have a decent starting point to invade the egyptian city to the north.

@Chieftess: have you got a link to that game? I'd like to see it...

The turn isn't finished yet. Next moves will be:
- Meet the greeks and put an embassy.
- Offer peace to Cleo, trying to extort her as much things as i can.
- Trade contacts and maps.
- Readjust production on cities
And, in the next turns:
- Figure out what to do with Thebes and Memphis.
- Settle the unclaimed land.
- Prepare for next assault on Egypt (or Greece, if they're really weak, but i don't count too much on it)

I love bad start screenshots for some reason, anyone got any more?

I played one game where the AI (Romans) started at the end of a peninsula with only room for a capital, and then a huge mountain range on the other side, like a good 4 or 5 squares of solid mountains, no hills or anything. I was on the other side, and had blocked him off right away, not even on purpose. Needless to say, I took him out pretty soon after. Sorry, no screenshot.

Well I played as the Romans (always the Romans isn't it?) and I was playing a hotseat game with my dad, he was the Cartheginians. He god lush grasslands, perfect plains, gently rolling hills, and no AI.

I got disease ridden jungles, murky marshes, massive marshes and I had to contend with the Americans and the Byzantines. Guess who one? ME! (I have no idea why)

Well in my current game I saw on the retire screen/replay that an AI started on this island. All my games are modified in that you can't build on tundra(I like it for some reason :p) so this AI start is extra worse. Its the middle ages and this AI is stuck with two cities and literally nowhere to go(massive neighbor next door). I don't 'technically' have contact with this civ yet that is why I have the editor screenshot.

As far as the topic creators post. I would of reloaded but then again I am just a lowly regent player lol

Abydos is also a City in Greece and in Egypt.

Well, without the ability to build cities on tundra I'd probably build one city 2 NW of the cow to encompass all the green land (the oil and aluminium would be swallowed up by my borders by the time I see them, if that ever comes around). Then I'd beeline to Map Making and immediately start sending out suicide galleys. It's your only hope. But when the AI gets that kind of start, you can just march in with your more advanced units and conquer them, provided you have a navy. It may seem too easy, but that has to happen sometimes. It's the randomness that makes Civ 3 fun.

Perhaps you should make a story in stories and tales :)?

@budweiser: no, they weren't. To be more precise, they were building the Pyramids before, but Babylon finished them first. Persia had already built the Colossus and Greece had the Oracle. Egyptians didn't have Literature (now they have it) so there were no wonder left. This resulted in a significant waste of shields - another lucky strike for me, i guess. :mischief:

@Peck of Arabia: maybe you're a little too optimistic, but i'm pretty confident i'll wipe out at least the Egypts before entering the AD. Dunno if i'll be able to incorporate Greece so early, they have Hoplites...

I've met Greece and (phew!) they're not the superpower i feared. They have only 6 cities, but they have iron an this means swordsmen.
I've offered peace to Egypt. Cleo isn't that bad after all. She agreed to hand over:
- contact with the Aztecs
- Pottery
- Iron working
- Mysticism
- Mathematics
- Her territory map
How sweet! ;) Alas, she has irons too.
I traded maps with greeks and aztecs. North of Aztland there is America. Aztecs are in bad shape, but America may have a big slice of land. I guess they have at least 10 cities. We'll see...
I'm building the settler in Thebes, to minimize the chances of cultural conversion. There are 2 egypt people, so there's a 50% chance that the settler will be Roman. Memphis need at least a temple to defend itself from Greek cultural pressure (yes, they have big culture). The other towns will poop units. I can build legions now, but i'll stick with archers and spears. I don't want to waste my golden age while still in despotism. In 20 turns i should be able to build 8 archers and 2 spears, enough to conquer Alexandria, then to head south for Elephantine and Heliopolis.

Drawbacks: 5 civs on the same continent. The other landmass should be about the same size, but with only 3 civs sharing the territory, and this means more room to expand. One is Babylon (damn Babs! :cringe: ), one is Persia and the last one is still unknown. I'm not using any map stat/revealer/spoiler etc. - i spotted babs and persians from the wonder screen.

Will tR1cKy the Lionheart be brave enough to prevail in this struggle? Only time will tell. For now, here's the known map:

And you just know there's either barbarians or maps in that goody hut.

EDIT: Back to the game this thread is about... First you ought to eliminate what remains of the Egyptians, then when you think you have a fighting chance against the Greeks try to make an alliance with the Aztecs and/or Americans so a big chunk of their military is sent northward while you beat them back on the southern front.

Definately finish of Egypt if you can. That would bring you more up to par with the Greeks. The open space between the Egyptian cities leaves room for dropping a few settlers. I'd plan to drop two settlers to the west and north-west of Thebes, and one on the hills to the north right away.

I love bad start screenshots for some reason, anyone got any more?The worst I can think of is a 2 tile island in the middle of a huge ocean. 1 tile Plains or Tundra or Grass even, The second a Volcano...

:p

Two tile island, one tile a wheat floodplain, the other a volcano.

On a Pangaea map.

Surrounded by a ring of volcanos, so you can't escape. :p

...with a barbarian SOD of big purple aliens with three eyeballs attacking from the volcanoes... :eek:

.... and the tax officer ringing at your bell :aargh:

@sennomulo: what goody huts? i'm playing with no barbs

@ Gogf: yes, i'm considering the idea of asking the mods to have this thread moved in the "stories and tales" forum, but it's too early. If i lose... :mischief:

It's 925bc - 13 turns left for peace with Egypt. That damn settler popped from Thebes is egyptian! :cringe: After a few curses, i came up with the idea of playing a variant:
- No city razing.
- Intentional starvation of cities is forbidden.
- Starvation is allowed if the governor is turned on and he decides to starve in order to avoid civil disorder.
- Only cities with pop 1 can be abandoned.
- New cities can only be founded by a foreign settler.
This set of rules will leave me prone to unreasonable culture flips, so i'll add an extra "good" rule:
- Turn reload is allowed if garrisoned troops are at least 2x local population and the city flips. This ratio is raised to 3x if there are resistors or if the city is in civil disorder.

Next play session tonight, now it's worktime.

I'll tell you a bad start. I started on a small island that was nothing but desert with absolutely no resources and there were ocean squares surrounding me. Needless to say...

@Chris1111: without the "no cities on tundra limitation", that wouldn't be a terrible start, assuming there is other landmass connected by coastal waters. I would have moved the settler in the tile NW of cows and built my capital there. (Yeah, i know, 5 turns wasted)

@kenScott: that is the type of game i would have reloaded without even thinking about a try. Not only because you are stuck there till late middle age, but the game would be just plain boring.

I'm not sure what to do with this thread. It started as a discussion on my bad start (and on bad starts in general), and it partially turned on a chronicle of a (wannabe) epic game. Should i:
1) Quit the "epic game" stuff and start a new thread about it in the Stories and Tales section.
2) Go on with the story and have the 2 topics merge together.

Any opinion? Thanx for the feedback.

YOu could ask a mod for them to move this to the S&T's forum.

690BC - i knew that bad news would have come...
Only 3 turn before my peace treaty with Egypt expires, 2 greek units, a swordsman and a hoplite, cross my border. There's no way they could be only passing about. Their intention is clear.
Damn greeks! Alex is polite, and we have an active trade (4gpt for wines). But rep hits are irrelevant between AS... :gripe:

My 1st thought: change plan, send the amassed archers straight to Athens.
My 2nd: don't be idiot.
Athens is a size 12 town built on a hill. Great. Hoplites defending at 6. And since a) it has a wonder b) it's building another one c) it's the capital and d) it's close to my border, i can expect at least 4 or 5 defending units garrisoned, probably veterans. At the moment i have 13 archer divisions to lay on the battlefield. I would need at least 2x that number to have a viable chance to take Athens.

What to do, then? Pillaging? Pointless, and i'll surely lose units. Cleo has conceded a ROP to Greece, so Thebes, Romola and Memphis are all at risk. No, this time humble tR1cKy will merely defend its territory, and beg for peace ASAP. My rich coffers will help if necessary. I'm quite confident that i'll be able to keep hellenic scum out of my sacred land. The only question mark is: how many units i'm going to lose? If everything goes ok, my invasion on Egypt will be delayed only for a few turn. Not a big deal.

Alex. Don't take it easy, you dirty scumbag. You'll pay dearly for this outrage. It's only a matter of time before my legions will knock at your door.

I'm going to ask the green morons to get out my land. This will give me the advantage of a first strike. As expected, they declare. With my newly build catapult i manage to weaken the hoplite. Then i get rid of it with an archer. A second archer is lost to fight the swordsman; the third kills.
To the north, i bravely order my peasants to build the road on the irrigated land. 2 extra spears are moved to defend them. An archer and a horse attack. 2 spears redlined, but still alive. The first turn of war has been successful for me.

In the interturn, Romola and Thebes finish to build their fortification walls. It won't be easy to take over my cities. Bring it on, baby. Bring it on!

Now *THIS* is a bad start! ;)

Just for fun... Huge world, max agression, Sid level, arid, cold, 3 billion, and the game started me where the green circle is... (atleast I have 4 oasises...)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ct_reallybadstart.jpg

Now, were this a real game, I'd be taking advantage of the Maya-Aztec war right now... (with my 4-5 desert cities.) or atleast trying to.

@sennomulo: what goody huts? i'm playing with no barbs

I was talking about the other map that was posted with the tundra island.

Don't forget to turn off "preserve random seed" if you want to play with game reloading.

@Chieftess: honestly, it doesn't seem so ugly, excepting for the 2 turns wasted to find a decent place for your capital. I don't have C3C, but, judging from the screenshot, you are producing 2 extra food per turns. This means 2 food for oasis tiles - at least, you can poop a decent number of settlers from Zimbabwe.
I've noted a serious mistake: you are spending 50% of your budget for research, but you're stuck at 50 turns to complete it. Money wasted every turn.

Have you progressed with the game or was it just a test-start?

tR1cKy,

I would immediately bribe the Aztecs and/or Americans to attack the Greeks from the north. This should keep any hordes off your back. Just sit back and kill anything that comes your way but don't go on the offensive just yet. Work on the Egyptian cities at the same time and take then out. Then all you'd need to worry about is Greece. You should be able to take out the Greek city to the southwest across the Egyptian lands with the archers you'll use to attack Egypt. I tell you though, you really need a bunch of cats to help out here.

Thanx for the advice bonscott. However...

1) Alliances. Already tried. No way.
Atzland has an active trade with Greece, and also a ROP. America has the active trade only, but it's enough. Both of them "would never accept such a deal", unless i toss in some tech (that i don't have) or a huge amount of money (same story). Once again, i'm alone in this fight.

2) Attack on Thermopylae. I considered the idea, and rejected it.
I cannot risk moving the necessary troops so far away from my cities. It would take 8 turns for the expedition corps only to reach the target. Greece has a ROP with Egypt, so they could skirmish on me successfully. And if, in the meantime, Cleo will decide to "take measures" against my troops crossing her territory, things would be even worse.

3) Strategy: yeah, a defensive posture is the only right move now. Troops concentrated in the 3 border cities. Defense of the road between Romola and Thebes. Skirmish against greek troops venturing into my land (they WILL come, for sure). A prayer to the RNG gods to not punish me too much would also be a good idea. :)

Tonight i'm going to play again. Stay tuned, folks!

EDIT: post #200
:beer:

@Chris1111: without the "no cities on tundra limitation", that wouldn't be a terrible start, assuming there is other landmass connected by coastal waters. I would have moved the settler in the tile NW of cows and built my capital there. (Yeah, i know, 5 turns wasted)

@kenScott: that is the type of game i would have reloaded without even thinking about a try. Not only because you are stuck there till late middle age, but the game would be just plain boring.

I'm not sure what to do with this thread. It started as a discussion on my bad start (and on bad starts in general), and it partially turned on a chronicle of a (wannabe) epic game. Should i:
1) Quit the "epic game" stuff and start a new thread about it in the Stories and Tales section.
2) Go on with the story and have the 2 topics merge together.

Any opinion? Thanx for the feedback.

Of course I restarted it!!! After I realized I was stuck on a piece of small desert island worse than australia I high-tailed it out of there!

Also, start sending out suicide galleys as soon as you discover Map Making. The other civs might help you get the techs you need for bribery and there could still be unclaimed land out there.

tricky, you will have the wall built in one turn. This is a size 3 city so it will have an effect at fending off the swordsman. You have a spearman. I'd move that spearman into your city but it looks well defended, so put it on the gold mountain, you don't want those bastards pillaging that and you don't have to defend that road there, that city is already connected. Greece will not attack with your wall in place. So you shouldn't worry about war with Greece (on this turn). Once the wall is built, he'll cancel his plans to attack if he has any.

If you're going to war with Egypt I'd stay off on the capital and go for the horses and iron first. You can wait for the luxuries until afterwards. Greece has a horseman so obviously they have a horse resource. My question is, where are they getting it from? Are they getting their horses and iron from Egypt? Do they have their own? The best tactical move would be to nail that city with the iron and horses if that's their common source. But I'd need to see other sections of the map.

Remola is right next to Thebes and is well insulated from attack. I'd move your spearman that you have in Remola to Thebes and your units in Rome to Remola. Next turn, go from Remola to Romola or Memphis again where ever you want to stage your next attack. You do not need strong defenses in your center. If you lose your outter cities you are toast. Take those units that are safe and in the back and move them out to your perimeter. You do not need defenses in those cities right now. If you lose your outer perimeter you're going to lose your inner cities so drop the D in the capital and defend your frontier.

Also, make sure those cities are harvesting that gold. That extra commerce could be the difference that helps you finish polytheism a little quicker and grab that monarchy government you're going for.

Yep, Greece must be getting Horses from Egypt. I see two Horses in Egypt, one up by Alexandria and another by Heliopolis. First things first is to take Alexandria and pillage the other Horse. This will get you a horse plus should knock out the trade to the Greeks. This will deny them Horses.

Alexandria should be easier to fortify like the other cities you got. Then move your forces to take the two Egyptian cities to the west and get that iron before Egypt can build pikes! Don't stop there, keep on going and get that last city of Egypt gone and knock then out of the game. Take that Greek city to the west as well assuming you are still at war with them. You can do it, you just need two forces. One defensive in your border cities with enough counterstrike power to hold back the Greeks (1 or 2 cats in each border city will do nicely) and a main offensive force with Archers and cats moving west.

You'll be sitting pretty in probably 20 turns with 2 horses, iron and a ton of gems. The extra horse and the gems may be enough to get the Aztecs to your side assuming the Greeks are still be a hassle.

EDIT: I see you already have iron down by Rome! Get some swordsman built I say!! Screw them archers.

Romola was founded at a weird place: not on river, too close to Memphis, and not have the wheat immediately. The only upside is it's on hills.

You've got plenty of gold. I'd go into negative gpt to get up in science. Athens is size 12. Their science is probably pretty damn good compared to your puny cities.

Heliopolis needs to be your number 1 objective right now. Grab that before going to Alexandria. You'll cut off the iron and horse to Greece and Egypt in one move. Why Helipolis first? Because it has a road connecting it to Greece and the other Egyptian cities. If you take out Heliopolis there is no road to Alexandria. They won't be able to trade to Greece, plus they won't be able to use that horse to build any horse units in their other city. Also, I'll bet good money that Heliopolis is being used as a trade route for Greece to those gems. Egypt is giving Greece gems. Take out those Gems and Greece is suddenly not a 'happy' civ anymore.

So, Heliopolis:

1. cut off horse & iron & gem trade to Greece.

Right now Alexandria horses are going to Alexandria only. Its not connected to anything, so its not your priority.

to hades with going on defense! take Heliopolis and you have this game won.

additional screenshots of other areas of the map would be helpful.

the spearman that you have positioned above Thebes that I suggested you move to the gold mine? find another spearman for the goldmine. Keep that spearman there, he is in the ideal place for your attack on Heliopolis. The second you start your attack take that worker by Alexandria, he's trying to build a road through Greece connecting his cities and horsetrade

I bet some of those Greek wines are going to Egypt too. Another incentive to strike at Heliopolis.

damn it! I love this. Civ 3 forum. I'm at work and can't play so this makes it seem like I am!

double post again... hmm..

Now *THIS* is a bad start! ;)

Just for fun... Huge world, max agression, Sid level, arid, cold, 3 billion, and the game started me where the green circle is... (atleast I have 4 oasises...)



Now, were this a real game, I'd be taking advantage of the Maya-Aztec war right now... (with my 4-5 desert cities.) or atleast trying to.

I'd ditch the warrior production and build another scout. Build the warrior next.

I bet some of those Greek wines are going to Egypt too. Another incentive to strike at Heliopolis.

yep, my thoughts exactly. that would make egyptians unhappy even more. but screw them. The Americans, Greeks, and (whoever the other green is) are your competitors right now. You need that Egyptian territory. Look at your territory, your nestled in the stinking hills and you've got nothing. You can turn that all around by grabbing that prime green egyptian real estate. Screw an offensive against Greece, they won't bother you because they can't cap your cities if you move your capital defense out to your perimeter.

You need that territory and you need to eliminate Egypt to get it, if not, Rome is going to be conquered by Greece easy, who will be blackmailing their neighbors to the north for good trade in science, while at the same time, denying it to you. You'll be researching middle ages while they're halfway through industrial.

If you don't take Egypt now, Greece will pulverize you with medieval infantry and the age of rome will be over. take egypt, become formidable and you'll be able to use the northern guys to weaken Greece. When that happens, take Athens. And make Thebes your capital when possible.

Also, one last thing, before you continue your offensive against Egypt... it MIGHT be a good idea to give those furs to Greece. That may keep them from waging war on you for the 20 turns you need to take out Egypt.

It may seem contradictory, but you're losing furs and in exchange you'll be getting gems. you'll be taking Greece's gems. Give them compensation, for now they'll be getting gems, fur, and wine. Very happy people. But not for long, soon, they'll be without their gems. So they're right back to where you started before you took Heliopolis. No loss for them, so they're not too mad. By the time you've captured all of Egypt that 20 turn fur trade will expire and now they've got no gems, & no fur, so they're living only off their wine (which you will be taking once you consolidate your new horse with your iron resources while your people are being kept happy & productive with their furs and gems.)

back to the spearman above remola and thebes guarding the roads. Why those road tiles? The gold mine tiles seem much more valuable and the computer would pillage them. That would decrease your gpt which will cut into your science research. place those spearman on those goldmine road tiles and off just the road tiles. You're not using those irrigated squares right now in your city. Those cities ARE using those goldmine tiles and they're small so those tiles have additional value. road + gold + mine = shields & commerce. Those are where those spearmen should be, not on those worthless roads that don't even keep your cities connected to the rest of your empire. The one on Thebes seems like its in a good place but only if you're about to launch an attack on Heliopolis

*bored at work*
*anxiously awaiting feedback*

Guys, thanx a lot! I see this game is intriguing someone!
Even if most of the suggestions were discarded, it's not because they are faulty. I've been given only good advice, alas my situation is so "extreme" that most of it simply won't work.
But even when i discard a suggestion, it's useful anyway. It help me considering every possible course of action, evaluating their pros and cons & so on. Seeing how my game started, it's obvious than anything can help. So please go on!

Now let's talking about resources. Greece is not taking them from Egypt. Unfortunately, both iron and horses are deep in the greek territory. Iron is 8 tiles away from my closest border and horses are even farther, right on the border between Greece and Aztland. No resource denial strategy then :(

There is a reason because i'm not building swords even if i could: i'm Rome, so i'll have legions instead of swords, and using them would trigger a golden age in despotism. Now there are some bonus grassland and 2-gold-tiles that would have its extra gold/shield wasted if i trigger the GA now. I'm sure i won't need a golden age to get rid of Egypt. Greece is another story, but i'll probably be in monarchy when we'll meet on the battlefield.

About unit positioning: the road from Romola to Thebes is strategically very important. It would allow me to transfer troops between the two cities in only 1 turn. It is possible that i'll need to send reinforcements to Memphis (remember, Cleo and Alex have a ROP), and with that road active i can backup the units sent from Romola with some others from Thebes. I cannot risk losing that road. Of course, i'll defend the golden hill too!

I wouldn't move any garrisoned in Roma and Remola (the former Egitto Merda). First, they're needed as MP. Second, those 2 cities are not so safe. Greece has Map Making, which means galleys... A pair of extra troops, along with a catapult that i'm going to build, will be needed to dispose of, say, a hoplite landing into my iron tile - not for the iron itself (i'm not using it now) but because it would break communication lines between Roma, the main source of troops, and the rest of my empire.
Ok, this cannot be seen from the screenshot :) they are 3 warriors and 1 spear - no much difference on the frontline.

About Romola: yes, its position looks weird at a first glance, but it's good for strategic reasons. 1st: it claims the golden hill NE of it from Egypt; 2nd: it establish a good reinforcement line bewteen Thebes, itself and Memphis (and Alexandria, once conquered); 3rd: when attacking Alexandria, Roman troops will have to travel only 1 tile in enemy territory, instead of 2. Its position is the only one fulfilling all 3 tasks. No problem with the river - Romola isn't supposed to go past size 6 anytime soon.

Let's assume that everyone agree with the fact that Rome must merely defend from Greece, and get rid of that useless war ASAP. Then, the true target is Egypt. Alexandria or Heliopolis? Who will be the first? Both of them could be good, let's see...
1st bad news: resource denial on gems won't work. Egypt is trading only gems to Greece. Elephantine is connected to Thermopylae, which has a harbor... capturing Heliopolis won't break the trade line... :cringe:
But it's possible to cut the Egyptian supply of horses. Quickly. In this case, first target would be Alexandria. It can be taken in 2 turn, then 4 turns to relocate to Thebes and heal. Then, if casualties won't be too high, straight for the horses near Heliopolis. At this point, it doesn't matter what city i take first. And it's irrelevant if i lose a few archers to egyptian war chariots. Golden age or not, Egypt would be doomed in a few turns.

But i will left the last egyptian city alone. Pi-ramesses, on the peninsula SW of the continent, is insignificant. It's better to offer peace to Cleo and extort her everything she has.

It's a good idea to offer to Greece our excess furs. I can get some wines in exchange, and have more happy people in my towns.

Thanx again for the loads of opinions. It's play time now. Hot news from the front are coming - stay tuned!

You're right. At this point, a war of resources isn't feasible. I still think you ought to destroy Egypt as soon as you have the military capability to do it. And of course you can't let Greece stay there forever. Good luck, and keep us updated. I want to see how this situation develops!

570BC - war with Greece has finally come to an end.
My skirmishes were greatly effective. As i expected, no stacks of doom have approached my land, only small parties. Catapults to weaken them, archers to deliver the final blow. My casualties: 2 archers and 1 spear. Greece: 4 hoplites, 2 archers and 2 swords.
The amazing thing is that Alex is willing to pay me for peace. He shelled out 100 bucks and his world map. Nice guy, at last. :D

Time to trade now. Damn, the greeks don't need my furs! They should be buying them from America. Anyway i strike a bargain: Wines for 6gpt. Not bad.

Peace with Egypt has already expired, but i'm going to delay the attack for a few turns. My offensive forces: 12 archers at full steam, 3 healing. I'm keeping 3 of them in Thebes as an insurance against egyptian raiding parties, and 2 more are needed in Memphis. Too few archers left to attack, Alexandria is on a hill. Better crank up some more. RNG gods have been merciful since now, it's better not to give them the opportunity to screw me up.
Then, there's another reason to wait a little. Egypt has only 2 techs more than me. Before war is started, i want them to be at least 3. More techs to be extorted late.

390BC - i declare on Egypt. 12 archer divisions, 1 spear and 3 catapults cross the border and proceed to Alexandria. Next turn the battle begins.
These pesky yellows have reinforced! 2 vet spears, 2 regular and a war chariot. My glorious armies suffer heavy casualties: 5 archers killed, 4 wounded and only 3 at full power. A hefty price is paid, but the city falls. I turn on the governor and start building a settler (i need it).
Next few turns are spent to relocate troops and heal them, but i need a few reinforcements before heading for Heliopolis. Raiding parties try to approach Thebes in order to pillage my wheat tile, but they're always sent home.
In 270BC my archer divisions cross the river. Next turn they're in egyptian territory, on the horse tile. The road is pillaged (bye bye war chariots), then my troops advance to Heliopolis.
Another fiery battle is about to begin.

210BC - Heliopolis has fallen.
Once again, the egyptian resistance was stronger than expected. 2 vet spears, 2 regular and a sword. 4 archers killed, 5 wounded. The horseman company redlined (yes, i have one). Too much for a size 3 town on grassland and without a lame wall. Are my glorious armies losing their grip? I hope not. As before, the governor is turned on and all the available troops are sent into the town to quell resistors.

In the meantime, an American galley has approached my land near Roma and pooped a warrior. What does it mean? I know America is at war with Egypt and i've seen american troops attacking egyptians on greek territory. Perhaps they're hunting them around. Surprisingly, the two contenders are both in a ROP with Greece.

Alex is smart. Why bothering? Pass freely on my land and slaughter each other. I'll clean up the mess and be fine. :D

But why these 2 american on the iron mountain north of Heliopolis? Lincoln is gracious with me. mmmhhh...
Next turn, the warrior fortifies. The two spears move NW. Yes, it's probably the Egyptian season and they're looking for preys. But wait... there are 2 stacks of american troops wandering around in greek territory, right next to my border. A total of 14 units, 9 archer and 5 spears, some regular and some vets. No sword. What are supposed to do there? There are no egyptian troops in that zone. I start to be suspicious.

130BC - I'm ready to take Elephantine. 2 turns for approach, and one to strike the final blow. And the two american stacks cross my border. Once again, 2 american spears are on the iron mountain. Even if Lincoln is still gracious, i'm no more suspicious now. I'm certain.

Damn Abe! Zeus boils that idiot! What is looking for in a land half world away of his home? Can't he realize that, even if he manages to conquer my cities, they would be corrupted to death? And doesn't he know that a stack of unit so far away from home is subjected to heavy lossed from skirmishes? Doesn't he know i have catapults?
Abe is in Republic now. He won't gain any bonus by grabbing my cities, and my preemptive strikes will raise his war weariness very quickly. Now which human player would be so fool to wage an invasion that way?

I try to strike a deal with him. Polytheism for Iron and 5gpt. Yes, i'm only 5 turns to complete it, but i'm hope that Cleo has already discovered Monarchy. That would be great.
Abe accepts the treaty, and he's still gracious. What will be happening next? Will he declare? Will he step back and regain some mental sanity? I'm still headed to Elephantine. I know it's a risky business, but i have left some extra troops in Thebes and Romola. They should be enough to repel the American invasion. Perhaps.

Next play session today. Don't miss it! Here's the actual shot.

Okay, looking at the Americans in your territory I see an Archer by Alexandria that has one hp left and is in the red. How did that happen? It looks to me that Abe is helping you against Egypt so I don't think he's going to attack you but was probably sending his forces to fight Egypt. As for the guy on Heliopolis, he may have merely had them pre-destined for it while it was still controlled by Egypt. He is now in your territory and his units have fortified because he doesn't have a RoP with you.

RE: Americans
I've seen the AI do that many times, at least at lower levels. Basically it sets a goal for it's units and it goes to that tile no matter what. Most likely that whole American invasion force was going for those tiles long before you took the cities.

I might suggest signing a ROP agreement with the Americans and they will probably move out of your territory. But only after you are sure you can take the gems city without them sneaking in and getting it themselves. With them having a ROP then they will head for that last Egyptian city off to the SW. Let 'em have it if you don't want it yourself. That way you extort Cleo for techs for peace but she'll get wiped out anyway.

@sennomulo: thanx! i've already updated once, and i'm going to play a few turns right now, so a further update is imminent.
Yeah, a resource war is pointless now, but may be feasible in the next future. The newly-conquered town of Heliopolis would be the perfect place to build a galley and send a legion to deny Greece's iron supply. And since a confrontation with Alex is only a matter of time...

@kenScott: i hope you're right, but i fear you're not... :( we'll see quite soon.

@bonscott: probably you're right, these forces were sent long time ago to dispose of Egypt. The problem is what they want to do now...
About the ROP, i'd better not to offer them such a treaty. In my past memories, every time i offered a ROP to some invading forces, they took advantage of it to attack me better. Cannot risk that.
I think the better deterrent for a war is the deal i just offered to Abe. If he want to stay at peace with me, he'll be supplied with iron and gold for 20 turns. If he declare, he would have gifted me a tech for nothing. But we know AS (artificial stupidities) are dumb...

@Chieftess: thinking twice, it's obvious that you cannot make a dumb mistake like that. It is clear that it was only a test-start. You weren't supposed to go on with the game, so you didn't care about wasting money, right? ;)

Now, i'm going out to buy some Rizlas (yeah i roll my own smokes :smoke: ), then i'll be back to play. This game is an amazing experience! I'm spending more time on it than in the GOTM 40. There's something appealing in starting with terrible odds and trying to win anyway...

Back soon. Don't go away dudes!

As for the Egyptian swordsman in Elephantine, you need to draw him a little closer to your border. I'd take a single archer and spearman into Elephantine territory. The archer should take a shot at him when he attacks and the spearman would be able to finish him off (maybe) its a gamble, but you'd take him out on the next turn with the archer if he got your spearman and maybe draw a few units out of his capital.

@Chieftess: thinking twice, it's obvious that you cannot make a dumb mistake like that. It is clear that it was only a test-start. You weren't supposed to go on with the game, so you didn't care about wasting money, right? ;)


I just explored around a bit to see what the terrain was like. :) Since it was a test game, I didn't bother with the science rate and stuff. As it turned out, it was a 3-sided boomerang-shaped island, with the Maya on one side, and Aztecs on the other. Mostly jungle and mountains.

@kenScott: good idea. I've used such a trap, but in a little different manner. I have bombarded the spear SW of Thebes and finished him with an archer. In the interturn, the sworsman went to revenge. The archer was killed, but the sword is at 2/4 hitpoints and need 2 turns to return to Elephantine.
Ah, the redlined archer had killed an egyptian spear and then fortified there for a few turns. Maybe he likes that desert...

My western army start marching toward Elephantine. Next turn i'll repeat the trap. The egyptian spear has moved toward Heliopolis. He was in the range of the catapult captured in Heliopolis. Bombard successful. Spear at 2/3.

Abe did nothing, but the main american army has moved further inside my land. Can't say where they are headed yet, except for "east". The furs? A city?


110BC: Abe has declared.
The first battle take place south of Romola. Our armies win. Abe loses 1 archer and 1 spear. I have only 2 units wounded, but the road from Romola to Thebes is interrupted. I send peons to rebuild it.
The rest of the american SOD splits in two, heading E and SE respectively. I have excess forces to send for a skirmish. 2 spears and 1 archer killed. I lose 1 archer, and another one is wounded. Not bad.
The wounded swordsman try to get back home. I kill him with the horse, losing only 1hp and promoting to elite. The whole western army is only 1 tile north of Elephantine.


90BC: Egyptian forces garrisoned in Elephantine attack my invasion force. I lose 1 spear and 1 archer, and another spear is redlined. They lose 2 swords. No problem. 2 units less defending the city.

On the eastern front, the 2 american armies have moved SE. One of them is occuping a Furs tile. Their target? Remola, maybe even Roma. They're also receiving backup. A warrior threaten an irrigated plain. Bombarded and damaged. An archer cross the border south of Alexandria. Killed.

Remola is too weak to resist such an army. I have no choice but defend with the legionary. Golden age in despotism, exactly what i was trying to avoid. But losing the city would be far worse. I kill 2 archers with skirmish troops attacking from the golden hill of Thebes. Good, but not enough.

On the western front, my troops charge Elephantine. 2 vet spears, 2 regulars and a veteran warrior defend the city. I lose 5 archers, and 4 are wounded. The horseman company is redlined. But the city is conquered. Gems, at last!
More good news: an archer company has popped up a leader. I think of using if to rush the FP in Thebes. Yes, the Forbidden Palace. I want my new capitol to be Athens ;)

Time to sign peace with poor Cleo. She hands over:
- Construction
- Currency
- Code of laws
- Map making
No monarchy! Damnit! She doesn't know it yet. :(

In the interturn, The two american SoDs attack Remola. When the battle ends, the legionary is killed and one spearman is redlined. But 5 american archers lay dead on the battlefield and another one is at minimum strength. The furs tile is pillaged, but i have another one still intact. And the american army is much smaller now.

I have survived for another turn. Phew... :thumbsup:

70BC - big troubles, extreme measures

After the heroic defense of Remola and the successive counter-attack of my skirmish forces, the American invasion force is reduced to a rotten bunch of losers running for their lives.

Alexandria has finally built its Egyptian settler. It will found a new fort between Heliopolis and Thebes, in order to keep the communication lines intact and claim a little more land off Greece.

I'm in the Middle Age now. An amazing result, considering the bad start. The funny thing is that almost all the techs i own were "kindly" provided by Cleo. I guess i love that woman :D

However, i'm still in trouble. Greek swordsmen have crossed the border, apparently heading to Heliopolis. Swordsmen, 2 regulars and 1 veteran. More greek units are just outside my territory. Is Alex going to backstab me again? He's already proven itself as a vile bastard and cheater, and my wines deal with him is about to end.
Heliopolis need reinforcements, it's too weak now. Only 1 spear and 1 archer defending, wall aren't finished and it's on open terrain. Reinforcements are needed, and this means losing control of the iron tile north of it. I'm lucky to have a 2nd iron source.

My second big trouble is getting Monarchy. The original plan was to extort it from Cleo, but she didn't have it. Plan B is to annihilate all american forces in order to raise Abe's war weariness as much as i can. When peace treaties will be available, i'll have some chances to extort Monarchy from him (supposing he owns the tech...)

Alex already knows Monarchy, but since now i simply hadn't enough money to buy it. Now i can toss in the deal my gems and a fairly high amount of gpt (thanks to my golden age), but i would almost go broke for 20 turns if i buy it.

BUT... if Alex want war, and will declare it anyway, i would have to pay him only the initial lump sum amount, plus the gold due him in the first turn. I would have bought Monarchy almost for free.

Yes, it's a risky strategy. But this is a game in which i have to take risks in order to earn anything. My initial attack on Thebes was risky. My superiority wasn't so big. It could have failed, and in this case i would have been toast. My decision to follow the invasion plan of Elephantine, regardless of 17 american units attacking my core land was risky too. A few unlucky strikes in a row would have meant the loss of Remola.

I can buy Monarchy for: gems, my world map, 36 gpt (my whole turn income) plus 80 gold. I accept the deal.

Having taken the risky road, it would be meaningless to be careful now. The next logical step is only one.

I hold a revolution.

The advisor tell me that i have to go through 3 turns of anarchy. Not too good, not too bad. Now, if Alex declare and if i can withstand his attacks without building troops for 3 turns...

I hit enter. As expected, Alex declare and attack. Heliopolis resists. 2 spears redlined, 2 greek swords killed. The third stay fortified in the mountain south of Heliopolis. In the next turn, walls will be completed and a legionary would be available for defense. But a stack of 3 swords and 1 hoplite are moving toward the golden hill between Romola and Alexandria. I need to reinforce my northern border.

Have my decisions been correct? Will my troops be able to resist without immediate backup? I guess we'll see quite soon...

NOTE: this screenshot has been taken before those critical decisions were made.

keep coming with the updates!

keep coming with the updates!

Yes, this is very interesting.

Ooh, an interesting dilemma. Leave it up to us Americans to attack a far-away land we'll never be able to fully put under control. ;)

As for the Greeks, unless you feel the peninsula is more important, the next logical step is to amass an offensive force to blitzkrieg Athens. Good luck...

P.S. good job catching Monarchy just before the Greeks declared war. That was about as good a deal as you could have hoped for. :goodjob:

Thanks for the support, guys! I'm glad this story is intriguing some people. Every time i check the forum, the read counter is up. Over 2000 at the moment!

Yeah, the "monarchy affair" was a dirty trick. I feel like i had cheated a bit, in the sense that i have exploited an evident dumbness of the AS. But hey, don't they try to backstab me everytime? It's not my fault if they're so predictable... :D

Now let's go with the story. An anticipation: my objective is to hit the greek empire directly at its heart. What does it mean? In one word: Athens.

----------------------

50BC - My land has finally been cleared from all the american scum that pestered it.
Greek forces attack the golden hill of Romola. One spear falls, the other is redlined but wins. A greek swordsman is killed. One scumbag less. Good.

30BC - More Greek forces approaching. I count 4 hoplites, 5 swords and 1 warrior. Most of them are veterans. Alexandria is seriously threatened.
Finally, i've managed to get an alliance! Monty of the Aztecs accepts join my struggle against the greeks. I reward him with monarchy. Long live King Monty!

10BC - The Sacred Roman Kingdom is established.

With the benefits of Monarchy, my empire start to shine. More harassing troops are coming from Greece, but i manage to keep'em out with minimal losses. Who said catapults are useless?

Alas, there are also bad news. Thermopylae has grown culturally, so it blocked all my sea routes toward Pi-Ramesses, which acted as a link between me and the Aztecs. The exchange of Gems and Spices between me and Monty ends abruptly, and so my reputation is ruined.

In the following turns, there is a "harassing war" between me and Greece. Alex send hoplites and swords. I bomb them with catapult, then kill some with archers and legions. Some units are lost, but greek casualties are at least double than mine.

In 70AD a legionary company finally disembarks on the only iron mine of Greece, on a mountain SE of Sparta. Next turn the mine is pillaged. Bye bye iron for Alex. No more swordsman for him, at least for now. That legionary will be very hard to kill.

The attrition war continue. After a few turns, Monty withdraws from the alliance. Abe offers me peace, but refuses to give me Monotheism. No problem, Abe. Stay in war weariness for a few extra time. You are a non-issue for me.

Turn after turn, the number of legionary companies rise steadily. I'm amassing troops in the newly founded town of Forte Cucco. I'm going directly for the big fish, Athens.
Alex insists in sending harassing troops into my territory. The menace of Atzland is no more, so he can divert all his troops on the southern border. But swordsmen start lacking, and his source of iron is still occupied by me. Oddly, he made no effort to regain control of it. He's building archers instead.

Damn Monty! He has turned on me! That bastard joined America in an alliance against me. Well, he's already been beaten by Greece, and he doesn't seem to have the necessary strenght for menacing me. Anyway, better watch out for Jaguars coming from the north (in this game they replace swordsmen - their stats are 3/2/2).

270AD - 21 legionary companies march towards Athens.
Greeks try to skirmish. 2 swordsmen are sent to intercept my army. They are killed, but 2 legionary companies are damaged. They won't be of much help in the upcoming fight.

280AD - The Great Blood Bath.

After the biggest fight ever of the known world, Athens has fallen! I have lost the count of how many defending units it had. A bastard hoplite killed 3 legions in a row, and without losing a single hitpoint. Useless to say that my casualties were enormous. 13 legions killed and 6 wounded. Only 2 legions at full hitpoints. But i popped a leader, which i'll use to move my capital from Roma to Athens. It's the only effective way to prevent "dirty tricks" from the resident population.

With the Great Library and the Oracle in my hands, it's time to offer peace to Alex. I haven't too many forces to go on with the invasion, and he still has plenty of hoplites to harass me. But the main reason is that i'm way short in infrastructure. Except for Romola, I haven't been able to build a single marketplace yet. And I have absolutely no libraries. Elephantine is the only city in my empire with a colosseum.

So better being a peaceful builder (with an eye on military) at least for a few turns. My golden age has ended, so bye bye extra shield and money. Building anything will be slower.
In the meantime, i'll get rid of those 3 nasty Jaguar companies threatening Alexandria.

Peace between Roma and Sparta, the new greek capital, is signed. Alex is paying me 120 gold, his world maps and 3 fine greek workers. With Athens in my hands, i'm now 4th in population, and my military is still on par with Greece. Now it's time to send some suicide galleys around, and meet the 3 remaining civs.

Here's a shot just after the peace treaty:

[OFF STORY]
During the storytelling, i've used some rough expressions, like "bastard", or "dirty scumbags", to describe Americans and Greeks as my opponents. I want to assure everyone that i'm absolutely not anti-american, nor anti-greeks. These words must be taken only in the game's context. I have no problems with American, Greeks, Egyptians, Arabs, Jews, Blacks, Chinese, [insert random ethnic group here]. I'm OK with anyone, as long as we can respect each other.
[/OFF STORY]

---------------------------------------------------------

300AD - Money matters

The successful attack on Athens is a major turning point in my struggle. And that leader came exactly at the right moment.
The building phase will be quick. I had amassed a large amount of money during my military campaign. Now i'm using this money to rush some buildings. Marketplaces have been completed in Elephantine, Thebes and Memphis. Romola will follow next turn. Roma is still 6 turns away. Not considering Athens, the net income per turn has almost reached the level it had during my golden age. Not bad.

Some happiness buildings are also required. I'm going to build colosseums rather than cathedrals, at least for now. My next objective is to have the WLTKD in my cities. This situation, along with the strategic placement of my new capital (Athens) and the 2nd capital (Thebes), will help much in keeping corruption low.

The Great Library in Athens has awarded me with:
- Monotheism
- Feudalism
- Theology
- Education
No chivalry! Good. No knights, at least for some time. But these bastards didn't bother to research Engineering. It would have been useful for me.

I signed peace with America. Grabbed 90 gold and a useless world map. Aztecs are still at war with me. I'm going to wait a few turns before offering peace to them. If i kill some Jaguars, Monty will be less recalcitrant to accept my demands.

From now, Aztland and America are going to play a marginal role in history.
Monty has a territory almost entirely covered by jungle and is still struggling to carve some productive tiles out of it.
America is a different matter. Abe owns a good land, all roaded and improved. But he lacks iron, so he's stuck with archers and spears for a while. What i really want is America and Greece progressing a bit. If they manage to discover a few techs, i can extort them during peace negotiations.
The real struggle now is between me and Alex, and i'm potentially stronger. But he still owns a good military, and can concentrate its forces in a few spots. My army is for the most part garrisoned in towns. I need those units to keep unhappiness low, and to face some unexpected threats. The few extra units i can use now to invade Greece would be easily repealed.

In this year, i had the first skirmishes with Monty's Jaguar Warriors. Lost 1 archer, but killed 3 enemy units. Good.


320BC - Now Jags are attacking Athens. Some skirmishes with them have been less favourable to me. I killed 2 of them, but lost 2 legionaries. No good. These damned Jags flee when overcomed, and my legions, after the attack, remain undefended in a floodplain tile. When other Jags come for revenge, they have two advantages: mobility and open terrain. To solve this problem, i relocated a second catapult into Athens, as well as my 2 horsemen companies. Weaker than legions, but at least they can retreat into the safety of Athens after the skirmish.

I've noted a large number of hoplites crossing my territory. They're apparently headed to Thermopylae. Various stacks with a total of 13 hoplite units. Why all these defenders? Egypt is not likely to become a threat for Greece. All these hoplites would be better garrisoned in its core territory. Unless Alex want to disband them to speed production in Thermopylae, the meaning of this massive relocation remains unclear.

Greeks have just discovered Astronomy. They're building the Copernicus observatory. In Pharsalos. It's not necessary to investigate it to see that it produces no more that 7/8 shields per turn. Go figure. Why not Corinth, or Thermopylae, or Delphi? Sparta is building Sistine, and it should complete it in exactly 20 turns, if not beaten by Babylon or Persia. Are you pondering what i'm pondering, Pinky?
Psst... switch colosseums to cathedrals...

The 8th Civ is the Iroquois! The Great Lighthouse in Ellipi, Babylonian, is now owned by Hiawatha!
Hiawatha. Too complex, i'll call you Bob instead. Bob of the Iroquois. Sound good.
Go Bob go! Crush that damn Babylonians! Even if someday i may come to conquer your land, now i'm on your side.

In the shot: Aztec and American territory, as in 300AD. In the top-right section, the mass migration of hoplites between Pharsalos (or Sparta) and Thermopylae.

EDIT: any opinions? Does this story rock? Or it sucks? Should i go on? Or should i quit storytelling and start, say, cultivating broccoli instead? Any feedback is appreciated.

Empty post, whose only purpose is to reach page 5. This page has already 600k of attached images, so i thought it would be better not to hog it even more... don't want dial-up users to curse too much at me :D

PSSST... Playing right now, will update tonight. Big things are coming!

EDIT: any opinions? Does this story rock? Or it sucks? Should i go on? Or should i quit storytelling and start, say, cultivating broccoli instead? Any feedback is appreciated.

IMO, you should keep the updates coming.

Top thread that's been very informative indeed.

360AD - The discovery of the New World

After two failed attempts, a Roman galley has finally reached a new land. A tiny village called Oka, on the edge of a small stripe of land. We meet the Iroquois.
Oka is defended by spears. Good news, those people aren't too advanced. Apparently, they have just entered the Middle Age. They don't know the art of literature, and lacks all the middle age technologies.

I meet Bob of the Iroquois, who is annoyed with me. I trade with him. Literature and Monotheism for contact with Babylon and Persia, and his territory map. Damn Bob! He owns a large territory to the north, and some small spots of land to the south. 19 cities, but 7 of them are unconnected and undeveloped. 12 'useful' cities in the core for the Iroquois. 10 for me. But Bob has spaced too much his cities and is wasting lots of uncorrupted tiles. Good for me.

Babylon is a surprise. Hammurabi, let's call him Jason for now, is polite. I buy his territory map for a measley 30 golds. Jason has only 4 cities! 2 of them have been captured by the Iroquois, but other cities must have been razed by the Iroquois. There is absolutely no sign of expansion from Babylon, except toward east. The histograph shows that Babylon was the strongest nation in 1000BC, then there is a steady rise of the Iroquois, coinciding with decline of Babylon. They lack Theology.

Persia is the most backwards of all the nations! Weren't they supposed to be scientific? They're still in the ancient age. They still need to discover Construction, and ignore Literature and Monarchy. Poor Xerxes! And better call him Mickey.
Mickey is happy to provide me his world maps for the knowledge of Literature. Now i have an excellent chart of the New World. We meet again Bob to get the few missing world maps. I shell out 30 golds and the maps are mine.

Good job. I am the only one to be in contact with the New World. I'm only one to know the maps of the two continents. I want these suckers not to communicate each other.

Americans have discovered a new island. It has iron in a hill. Now they know Astronomy so they're going to colonize quite soon. Pikes for the pukes, then. :cringe:

Alex is in anarchy. He was in monarchy, so i guess he's changing into Republic. Good. War weariness for him.

Next turn i establish embassies with all the 3 civs of the New Worlds. All spears are upgraded to pikes.

In the following turns, little happens, except for some skirmishes with Aztec jaguars and spears. For the first time, an aztec pukeman come to harass my territory, but he's sent packing. 4 cities are building legions. My army is reinforcing. The next step is to eat all what remains of the Greek territory, except for Thermopylae. Greeks are spending 100% in science, if they manage to research Engineering or Chivalry they'll have a few extra techs to donate me :D I'm planning a combined strike against Sparta and Corinth. But all these hoplites and archers stationing on the border are worrysome. I'll need more units and more catapults for the defense of the land around Athens and Heliopolis.

Here's a collage of 2 different game shots. Top: A roman vessel reach the coastal waters of a distant Iroquois settlement. Contact with the Bob of the Iroquois is established. Alas, the heroic galley didn't survive the return. Bottom: the strange weakness of Babylon.

Bob, and Jason... lol i like ur names...


Could you maybe show us a map of the Iriquois territory?

I think you should advance down that greek/egyptian peninsula. Hopefully that action make just one land frontier with the main Greek state to the north. It should give you a better defensive position.

420AD - Cultural awakening

For thousands of years the people of Rome has been described as a ruthless bunch of dirty peasants, shameless merchants and bloodthirsty warriors. Now, for the first time in history, Rome is gaining culturally over the other populations of the Old World. The first Cathedral of Zeus has been built in Thebes. Another will follow in Elephantine.

Our generals complain that culture is useless on the battlefield. Some more illuminated advisors reply that some culture is necessary to keep into the populace the idea of a national identity. Without something to be proud, apart from the number of enemies slaughtered, the people of Rome is going to lose its loyalty to the Crown.

But military needs are not forgotten, even in peace times. Every year new companies of legionaries are trained and equipped for battle. Our training camps are always busy. We actually have an eccess of 16 legionary companies ready to engage in battle, supported by archer, mounted units, and catapults. Actually, in these "peace times" we are at war with Aztecs. But hostilities with Monty are nothing more than occasional skirmishes between our standing forces and some venturing companies of Jaguars, and in most cases the invading Aztec soldiers are sent home badly beaten.

Monty doesn't bother asking for peace, and i have no reasons to call a cease-fire. Little news come from Aztec lands, but imperial maps receive regular updates from Greece and America. Aztland is still a jungle covered wild land, and Monty seems too obsessed by this useless war to care for the development of its territory. Taken into account the representative form of government actually used in Atzland, it is likely that Aztec people won't tolerate forever such a thing.

Abe has colonized the northern island NE of the main continent. The city of Miami has been build right above that iron spot. I guess they'll build a harbor quickly to connect the source of iron from the mainland. Pukemen and Knights for Abe. America has discovered Engineering and probably will trade this precious knowledge with Greece for Chivalry. Oddly, that iron spot in greek land is still undeveloped.

What is seriously lacking in our Kingdom is science. We have only a full functional public library, in Alexandria. And research is confined between a small circle of men in Elephantine. They're slowly progressing in the development of a printing press machine, a technology that our opponents seem to overlook for now. Good. There is a fair chance that the printing press mechanism, once it's made feasible, will be a good asset to trade.

In the New World, Bob is slowly eating all what remains of Babylon. He captured Samarra. Only 3 cities are still loyal to the Babylonian soon-to-be ex-empire.

In the current shot, the Iroquois core territory covers the most part of the New World's mainland. In the map, it is visible the slowly disappearing Babylonian Empire and the small territory of the Persian Republic.

@AndrewH: .. and here you are.

@HAND: i'd like to leave the city of Thermopylae in the hand of Alex. :D
What i have in mind is to sign peace with him once he's left with only 1 city, so i can extort the most from Greece during peace negotiations. Having moved my capital from Roma to Athens, the main land of Greece, once conquered, would be quite productive.
The drawback in leaving Thermopylae as the city-state of Greece would be the cultural pressure problem in Elephantine, but i'm already pumping cultural buildings there, so the risk of a culture flip is going to be minimal.
It's obvious that, after peace expires, Thermopylae will be instantly assimilated, and Pi-Ramesses, the last egyptian city, is going to meet the same destiny.

@BlackJAC: thanx! Glad to know it's been also useful.

Next turn i establish embassies with all the 3 civs of the New Worlds. All spears are upgraded to pikes.


A neat trick is that as soon as you contact someone for the first time, just say hello and don't trade anything. Then establish and embassy and then talk to them again. This time their mood will be much better and most times you'll get better trade deals.

Enjoying the story, keep it up.

Is it just me or does that continent look a lot like South America?

LOL It does sorta look like south america... Random Map generater... blah.

to take the city is much easier than to keep it. the culture is the key.

Talking about similarities, has someone noticed that the Old World has a slight resemblance with Great Britain?
PSSST... next update in a few minutes. Stay tuned folks! ;)

480AD - Preparing for battle

Peace treaty with Greece expires this turn, but i'll gift Alex with a few extra turns of peace, until his Sistine Chapel in Sparta gets finished.

The Roman army becomes stronger every turn. My generals report an excess of 25 legionary companies already gathered in the plains NE of Athens, and there will be at least 30 of them when swords will finally be drawn. Rome's main cities are still busy recruiting new soldiers, and communications lines between them work perfectly. When a legion company is sent from Roma, the very same turn another legion company arrives at the gathering area ready for battle.

There's no miracle in this, only wise planning and good organizations. The Roman cities of Remola and Forte Cucco were placed where they are with the precise intent of acting as waypoint for troop movements. Their stationing garrisons assure that there will be no holes in the deploying of troops. When a legion company arrives in Romola, Thebes or Forte Cucco there's always another company ready to leave for the front.

To speed up production of new troops, i'm extensively using a dirty rushbuilding trick. The problem with rushing is that you instantly fill all the shield required to finish the building, thus losing the production outcome of that turn. The cities of Roma, Remola and Memphis can produce a legion in 3 turns. But if i start building an archer, rush it after the first turn and then change production to a legionary, i finish it in only 2 turns with half the cost that i would have payed for a "proper" money rushing.

Meanwhile, some Aztecs pukes are coming south toward Alexandria in search of some serious beating. I've diverted some troops from the gathering point to be sure they'll get what they want.

In the New World, Bob of the Iroquois is still aiming at the complete annexation of Babylon. He's just conquered Uruk. Two cities are all what remains of the once mighty Babylonian empire. I confess i'm hoping for some culture flip. I don't want Bob to become too powerful.

I've just received an angry letter from Mickey of the Persians:

Dear Caesar,
please stop at once to call me "Mickey". If you want to mangle my name, have at least the decency to not call me like a rat! Why not "Mario" instead? It reminds me of an old game i played when i was young...

Ok. Mario of the Persians. Yes, i must admit it sounds better than Mickey. Fine. :D

In the shot: the link between cities acting perfectly as a reinforcement grid for troops deployed from the southern cities. In the Greek area, my battle plan for the soon-to-come "Operation Santorini".

Talking about similarities, has someone noticed that the Old World has a slight resemblance with Great Britain?

Yes, although it appears that all of Wales has sunk into the Irish Sea. :eek:

P.S.: Perhaps your starting location wasn't the worst after all. Look at Babylon. :lol:

...P.S.: Perhaps your starting location wasn't the worst after all. Look at Babylon. :lol:
:wow: Babylon start with two wheat, a cow and a lux in the capital... Any human player would have kicked donkey with that start.

It's an interesting game. :)

Hi you all! And thx for the feedback!

@bonscott: I confess that i forgot to act this way. Thanks for reminding me. BTW, trades with the New World pukes were minimal. Only maps and contacts for some backward techs and a little money.

@sennomulo: Yeah, the similarity between the New World and South America is astounding. And not only the landmass. Look at the territory of Persia. Doesn't it look like Argentina?

@mrtn: you're right. AS are dumb indeed!

About Babylon, it actually expanded at first, but the lack of iron forced Jason to stick with bowmen. Then (probably) Iroquois mounted warriors came from the north, and Persian immortals joined the party from SW. Due to Babylonian high culture, they choose to raze cities rather than conquering them. However, even a "normal" human player would have performed far better than the AS.

I've played a few more turns, but my cravings for sleep prevented me from posting the log. I'll update this evening after work, then i'll play more. A few anticipations: Operation Santorini has started, but the greek scumbags had an unplesant surprise for me, and i've been forced to change my battle plan.

Big things are coming, and some of them aren't good. Don't miss the next update!

540AD - Operation Santorini

Greeks have just built Sistine in Sparta.

In the same turn, Operation Santorini has begun.

The last "confidential" reports on Greek military bring me an unpleasant surprise. Corinth is defended by 3 vet hoplites, and is on a floodplain. But it's the report from Sparta that made me jump on the chair and curse like a mad: 4 musketmen, 4 hoplites, 1 sword, 1 longbow. And Pharsalos: 2 musketmen, 3 hoplites and some lesser scum.

Musketmen. Those vermins have discovered gunpowder, and have saltpeter.

The battle plan must be changed. I cannot sustain a combined attack on Sparta and Corinth. The risk of being repealed is too high, and a failed attack would be disastrous. Greeks forces would heal and upgrade more hoplites to muskets. And i would find myself short of troops for several turns.

Legions will head for Corinth, and reserve troops will be left on the area around Athens to defend our wine tiles and skirmish with greek troops approaching. I guess it won't be too easy to annex what is left of Greece.

Why Corinth and not Pharsalos? In both cases, my troops would be able to strike in 2 turns, and i'll negate to Alex the production outcome of a core city. The reason is that, by conquering Corinth, i will free Alexandria from its cultural pressure. This will allow me to disengage many of the troops stationed in on around that city.

War is declared.

16 legion divisions are sent toward Corinth.

550AD: There is no greek skirmish, but 3 hoplites invade my territory, occupying one of my wine tiles next to Athens. More hoplites are on a hill just north of my border - they're probably aiming at pillaging the floodplains of Athens. And to the south, a division of 5 hoplites cross my border south of Heliopolis and start venturing. My gem tiles are well protected for now, so i think i'll deal with them in the "normal" way.

First serious mistake of the game. I forgot to adjust the mood of the citizens of Athens and now they are in civil disorder, damn me! One productive turn lost.

Monty begs for peace. He has nothing worth extorting, so we'll stick with war a little time more.

My legions charges toward Corinth. As expected, those greek maggots have received some reinforcements. 1 musketman, 3 hoplites, 1 longbow and 1 archer defend the city. The cost of capturing Corinth is high: 6 legion company lost, another 5 wounded, and no barracks in that damned city! Healing will be slow.

A jag is spotted in the plain tile west of Corinth. I send a legion to kill him, then a pikemen to defend the wounded legionary... wait, why not an alliance with Monty? I would divert some of the greek troops from harassing Athens, and free myself of Aztec pukes threatening Corinth.

Ok, Monty. Let's be friend for now. I cease hostilities with him, then sign an alliance against Greece. He wants too much money, so i give him Education and grab a spice supply. Ok, he robbed me, but at least i got those lepers to do something useful. Even if he won't be loyal to the alliance, their Jags will be a nuisance for Alex at least for a while.

In the interturn, the greek forces harassing Athens don't pillage my wine tile and move north instead. I spot some hoplites in the Greek territory moving in the same direction. Good. Monty must have sent some Jags killing around. It was a good idea to bring him on the fight. But the invasion from south starts to worry me. 6 hoplites and 1 archer. Damn Alex! All those damned troops, where in the hell they come from?

In the New World, Bob of the Iroquois and Jason of Babylon have finally made peace.

In the shot, the southern part of the New World. Small landmasses, mostly undeveloped. No city past size 6. The only productive cities appear to be the 2 persian settlements of Tarsus and Antioch.

Next play session NOW! - Don't miss the soon-to-come update, folks!

Tricky, this is the most entertaining thread I've read on any forum anywhere. I don't have a copy of civ right now so this is somewhat diminishing y cravings....but also addig to them. It is soooo hard to find a copy for the Mac. Anyway, keep it coming

560AD - Readjusting our plans

I need Engineering, and maybe it's the right time to buy it. I had in mind to extort from Greeks at the end of the war, but since thew know Gunpowder, Engineering has become a quite backward techs. Its price should be affordable now.

Alas, none of the New World pukes know it. I must buy it from America. Surprisingly, Abe is willing to accept trade goods and gpt for it. My trade reputation is still intact! I thought it was toast when cultural growth of Thermopylae blocked my communication line with Aztland and so my trade with Monty ended abruptly. It's obvious that such an interruption doesn't count as a rep hit. Good for me.

Now the question is: should i supply iron to Abe? He would be able to build Pukemen and Knights, but he'll probably get it anyway in a few turn, once a harbor in Miami is completed. Assuming this, it would be advantageous to sign a supply agreement before Miami gets connected to the rest of America.

Wait... this is the obvious reasoning when fighting against a human player, but my opponents is an AS, let's spy on Miami to see what's going on. For only 45 bucks, i can afford it... It's building a library! What idiocy. But he also lacks horses. Without them he cannot train Knights anyway, and i am the only one who has an excess of horses to sell. So if i give him iron it won't be so bad. All what he would get is the ability to train Pukemen, and there's the possibility that he already knows Gunpowder...

A decision must be taken. Engineering for iron, gems, wines and 13 gpt. The deal is made.

Corinth is reinforced. Yes, i know it's at risk of flipping. But i need to quell resistance. Seriously wounded troop are sent to heal in Athens and Alexandria. Some hoplites are bombed with catapults, but the majority of the shots fail to hit the target. Better not anger the RNG gods. No direct attacking now.

In the interturn, a greek longbow attack a legion. The greek dog is redlined but wins. And Mario of the Persians declare on Bob. Fool.

570AD - More green scumbags come to harass my land. Skirmishes follow. I lose 2 legions and 1 archer, but manage kill 3 hoplites and the longbowman i redlined before. The great event is that i popped i leader! I'll use it to build a legion army, it will be useful against those pesky musketmen.

In the following turns, nothing much happens. I set up a blockade on the Thermopylae border to prevent harassing from greek slimes. Corinth is still resisting, those morons are damn hard to be quelled! Garrisoned troops are too few to enact my "good rule" and i cannot risk anger the RNG gods more. So i leave 1 lousy troop in the town and 3 more legions just outside. It's a risky business anyway, since a flip would cause my trade route to America to be interrupted and i don't know if such event would cause a rep hit.

Skirmishes have been quite successful. I killed 4 hoplites, 1 musket and 1 longbow, and i lost only 1 legion. Again, who said catapult are useless?

Today's shot is a collage. Top image: stacks of harassing greek troops around Athens. Bottom image: the blockade set up to prevent greek infiltrations from Thermopylae

Next playing session tonight. It's work time now :(

Tricky, thats for the story, as a new player, I am learning heaps from your posts. Keep them up.

Once again, i want to thank everyone who posted here to give me suggestions on how to progress or to simply invite me to go on with the story. By reading your feedback, i have realized that this thread is not only entertaining, but also a learning tool for some players.

By telling the story, i'm trying to describe not only my actions, but also the strategic decisions and considerations which lead me to act that way (with some poetic licenses, of course :D). This game is really my biggest challenge ever. And, for the first time, i'm feeling that i have high chances to win.

However, troubles are far from over. To cite a poster's words:
to take the city is much easier than to keep it. the culture is the key.
This is precisely the trouble i'm having with Corinth. In the first 2 turns of the occupation, not a single lousy citizen has been quelled! And Greece still has a culture that is 4.5 times mine. Corinth is quite prone to flipping, and it probably will in the next turns, if i'm not quick enough in conquering Sparta.

I don't know if i have cut off the greek supply of saltpeter. If they were buying from America, they're toast now, since the alliance with Aztecs cut off the trade route between Abe and Alex. But if they still have it, recapturing a flipped city will be more difficult.

Usually, in my games i pay more attention to culture. But in THIS game, in order to survive i was forced to spend almost my entire production outcome to crank up the military. In my initial expansion phase i was able to build only 2 cities, in a space normally fitted for one. Every other course of action would have me led to failure.

My goal is to win by domination (What else, Pinky? :evil: ). If i succeed, i would have shown that Deity games can be won even with a starting point so discouraging as mine.

Finally, a thank to all the lurkers. The view count is already over 3000. Honestly, i didn't think this thread would become so popular. All this attention you are showing for my story is a further motivation to go on with it.

See ya soon guyz. Stay tuned for the next update!

I would halt growth of the occupied towns, and build workers until they're size 1. I don't really remember vanilla (this is vanilla, right?), but I think that those workers would be without upkeep cost, just as captured workers. Besides, this greatly diminished the chance of flipping (every foreign citizen counts as a tile under foreign control).

Yea, you should be starving Corinth down to size 1. I think you've had a few turns already and it's still a size 11? Should have it down to size 8 now and heading down. Each time you starve it down a size it also takes away 1 resister so you are killing two birds with one stone. Get that city down to size 1 with a temple in it and you shouldn't have much of a flip issue. Could be too late though...

You could possibly rush some workers into Corinth to add to the population. More troops to queel the resistance, then afterwards, rush a settler, after that, disband the settler.

Why a settler? I think it would be better to rush workers if anything, so you at least get the slave worker units out of it. It's one less population point, sure, but think about all the work they could get done over the next millennia.

You could possibly rush some workers into Corinth to add to the population...Why? This is totally counter productive. It's only the number of foreigners that's important, not the overall number of citizens.
Having free upkeep workers is worth millions in accumulated gold... ;)

... or it isn't?!?
My initial impulse was to reload, then i said to myself: why not give it a try?
I'm building military like crazy - an attack on Thebes and Memphis doesn't seem impossible.
Vanilla 1.29f, deity - bets are open.

You can take out diety AI's eazsily like that I destroyed one with about ten archers very early

Take over the whole old world. Then finish off Babylon.

Hi you all!

I see the "Corinth affair" is generating more debate... alas, the reality is that i cannot do nothing about it :(
First, some reply. Yes, it's vanilla, and yes, foreign workers (and foreign settler) are for free. About this:
Why? This is totally counter productive. It's only the number of foreigners that's important, not the overall number of citizens.
Sadly, it's true. A size 1 city with 1 foreigner is exactly the same as a size 20 city with 19 nationals and 1 foreigner, for the culture flip formula. Personally, i consider both the formula and the whole mechanism badly flawed. Not only for that reason, but mainly because it generate absurd results when it calculates the number of garrisoned troops needed to prevent the flip.

In Corinth, things couldn't have gone worse. In the first 2 turns, not only a single resistor has been quelled. Unlucky rolls, i guess. And since:
- resistors don't consume food
- resistors don't generate shields
- where there are resistors, things cannot be rushbuilded in any way
i'm stuck with 1 shield per turn. 10 turns only for a lousy worker.
Unless i garrison a large amount of troops in the city for several turns. But i would be at risk of flip anyway, and losing 20 or more troops now would be disastrous.

Then what? I think the only possible thing to do is to leave 1 defender in the city and park 3 or 4 legions just outside it. Then wait for the flip, then recapture it. The city will lose 1 pop every time it's conquered.

Now someone could ask me why i haven't razed it or why i'm not abandoning it. The answer is that i cannot. The set of extra rules i'm using (a small variant) forbid me to do such things. And intentional starving is forbidden too. I can only pop out foreign workers or settlers. Here are the rules:
- no city razing
- no starvation unless:
- 1) the governor is active and decide to do so
- 2) it's necessary to avoid rioting.
- only cities size 1 can be abandoned
- only foreign settlers can build cities.
- turn reload is allowed if there are at least 2*n troops and the city flips, being n the number of citizen. This factor is raised to 3*n if there are resistors or if the city is in civil disorder.
This variant has not been implemented from the start, but after i popped a foreign settler from a conquered city (i hoped it was a national). It was about 900BC.

To lessen the flip threat, i need to take Sparta ASAP. Moving away the enemy capital will help. And that's exactly what i'm going to do :evil:

No update yesterday :( i went out with some friends, we had "some" wine and, well, i went home a bit alcoholic... :crazyeye: so i wasn't in the right mood to play hehehe. Don't worry, i'm playing a few turns right now :D
Take over the whole old world.
That's exactly what i intend to do :evil:. Any bet on the date?

610AD - Operation Santorini, phase two

My plan for assimilation of Greece have been changed in accord to the new strategic scenario. I couldn't afford a combined strike of multiple objective, so i choosed a single target a concentrates my forces on it. I took Corinth, but that damned city is giving me more troubles than else.

Now, capturing Sparta is paramount. Defenses will be formidable, but at least the city is built on an open terrain and not in a damned hill! Muskets defending at 7, Hoplites at 5. It could have been worse.

With a projected defense force of 8/9 units, casualties are very likely to be enormous. I plan to toss in the fight 25 legion companies, supported by a pair of pikes and some archers and some catapults. Pikes and archers will wander around and try tu lure eventual attacking units, like swords or longbows, into leaving the fortifications of the city.

My combined forces, at the moment, are short of 5 legions and some catapults, but i cannot delay the attack too much. Reinforcements are on the way, in the meantime the skirmishes continue. A longbow killed a legion south of Heliopolis, but was disposed by another legionary. A hoplite tried to infiltrate in the grasslands west of Athens, but was welcomed by my artillery. Big things are coming.

620AD - a longbow from Thermopylae kill another legion, but it's later sent to hell. Now i can drop the blockade. Two horsemen have arrived in Heliopolis, and now i can let those pesters to enter my territory. Mountains are still blocked so harassers have to invade the plains, where they can be weakened by catapults and dispatched with horsemen.

Some greek units have left Athens for the north. My pikemen fortified on a hill NE of Sparta spotted a longbow, a hoplite and 2 muskets. Strange. I guess Monty is giving Alex some real pain. The relocation may mean that Alex is falling short of troops and he's already feeling the effects of war weariness. Exactly what i want.

I decide to move my troops.

The first Roman army cross the border from Corinth. 10 legions and 4 archers reach the fortified pikeman on the hill. 3 legions are left just outside the city to deal with an eventual flip.

The invasion from Athens is even more formidable. 12 single legions, a division of 3 legionary companies and 3 catapults. They reach the hills just south of the 1st army and prepare to invade the open plains. Big things are coming.

In the interturn, another hoplite venture into the hinterland of Athens. More work for our catapults and horsemen.

The important news is that American have discovered Navigation and are building the Magellan Voyage. It's time to share with them my maps of the New World and have them meet the indigenous populations, since they would gain this knowledge anyway in a few turns. There's a chance to get a tech from Abe. Invention would be perfect, since it would allow me to extort Gunpowder from Alex once i finish beating him. Let's go.

Abe, i'm happy to share with you my world maps. And i'm glad to introduce you Bob of the Iroquois, Jason of Babylon and Mario of the Persians. In return, would you like to give me knowledge of Invention? What? You also want gold? All right, you damn leech! Here's 300 bucks for you, but you have to toss in YOUR world map. Is it ok? Agreed.

Now let's go dealing with Aztecs. Hi Monty, i've heard from our spi.. er, diplomats that your fine scientists have just discovered Chivalry. Would you trade this tech for the knowledge of Invention? You say ok? Of course it is ok, you rotten arsehole, you're gaining a lot with this trade. Anyway, the deal is made. Now pick your machete, free myself from your stinking presence and go back chopping some jungle. Damn sucker.

--------------

Pause now, it's lunch time. In today's shot, my new battle plan for the conquest of Sparta. Blue lines are the "good" ones. The yellow path at a first glance seems better (more protection for the invading troops), but actually it's worse, since i would have to attack Sparta after crossing a river. Amazingly, Corinth is still mine.

--------------
EDIT: the two dates of this post were wrong. They are 610 and 620, not 620 and 630. Corrected now.

Why? This is totally counter productive. It's only the number of foreigners that's important, not the overall number of citizens.
Having free upkeep workers is worth millions in accumulated gold... ;)
Not true. Settlers are a high value target for the AI and you can use the settler to play games with their units while they're coming towards your base. Thats what I do anyways. If you rush away the foreigners the city will be less likely to culture flip. If this is something that is an immediate concern then you want to get rid of as many of them as possible. Maybe you don't have 2 or 3 turns to rush a few workers and one worker might not be good enough. A settler diminishes the city by 2 in a single turn and that could mean the difference between whether or a not city flips or not. Afterwards, you put your own workers in and grow the city with your own people.

It may seem counter-productive to you, but to me its a matter of whether or not keeping a city is worth it.

I'm curious to know why you haven't occupied the wine outside Pharsalos?? If he's in war weariness and loses those wines his cities will go into chaos!!

Someone has caught me pants down...
I'm curious to know why you haven't occupied the wine outside Pharsalos?? If he's in war weariness and loses those wines his cities will go into chaos!!
Because i'm dumb. I was so deeply concentrated about culture flipping chances, plans for the attack, placement of troops, micromanaging, trading maps, looking for techs discovered by AS and so on, that i overlooked that stinking wine tile in the greek territory for several turns.
Second serious mistake of the game. I hope it's the last. :(
-----------------------------------------------------------


630AD - Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!

Little things happened during the interturn. Another hoplite ventured into my land. Two longbows are stationed in the hills north and south of Sparta. My troops are moving toward the greek capital. I've given my troops some last-minute orders, another little change from the original battle plan. The main forces of the 1st army have moved east instead of SE. Why? A sort of further insurance. In case the 1st attack fails, i can at least send some troops north and NW to block possible reinforcements from Delphi, thus easing an eventual second attack. But i REALLY hope it won't be necessary...

Two extra legions from Athens have been sent invading the irrigated grassland SE of Sparta. I hope to lower its population and lure some greek pukes into attacking them. For the same reason, a pike and an archer have been sent harassing some other fertile territory NE of Sparta. We'll see quite soon if it was a wise move or not. A last legion is now fortified into the mountain NE of Pharsalos. He'll be useful to track greek movements from south.

In the meantime, the harassing hoplite has been redlined by catapults. A legion is sent to deliver him the final blow. All my horsemen were upgraded into Knights. Lots of money, but well spent. They'll be quite useful in the upcoming battles. And finally, Corinth is still mine and is due to complete a worker this turn. Will i manage to avoid the flip?

I hit enter. As expected, the longbows around Athens attack my harassing legions. One of them kill without even losing an hit point. Another one attacks and fails. A third one kill my second legionary.
Good anyway. Two units less defending Sparta. Longbows are 4/2/1 in this game, they would have defended at 3 if garrisoned in the town.

To the south, an other longbow venture out of Thermopylae and dare attack a fortified legion on a mountain. The legionary survives and get promoted.

I got a pop-up warning me that Jason has started building Bach's Cathedral. Music Theory for Babylon? Nice thing. Hi Jason, i've heard that your lousy empire has finally managed to discover a new tech. Would you award me with Music Theory in return of Engineering? Oh, how nice! Thank you very much. Now go to hell. Oh, mighty RNG gods! Please bless humble tR1cKy and let him poop a leader in the next battle...


640AD - My troops charge toward Sparta. Catapults manage to weaken 2 defending muskets, then legions charge. Sparta is captured, but once again my casualties were enormous, even worse than i was expecting. Seven veteran musket companies were defending Sparta, and they fought heroically 'till death. Of the 25 units attacking, only 8 managed to survive. 17 legions killed, including my newly formed batallion, 3 coordinated companies under the command of General Scipio. Legends about the valor and courage of Spartans soldiers were not told in vain.

The Hanging Gardens and the Sistine Chapel are in my hands now. WLTKD in several towns next turns. And Sparta has functional barracks and a marketplace. Money for my coffers and a quick healing for my wounded troops. Good.

Corinth is still mine, and has finally pooped a worker. Greek, of course. RNG gods have screwed me a lot in the battle of Sparta, but have been merciful with Corinth. Now its cultural pressure from Greece is quite loosened. Obviously, i'm now facing the very same problem on Sparta. 8 tiles under foreign control. It's now a battle against time to prevent the city flipping. I need to strike at Pharsalos as soon as i can, and then go conquering Delphi. But now the remnants of the greek republic are cut into pieces. Communication lines are no more, except for naval ones. If i strike quickly, Pharsalos won't have a chance to get reinforcements.

I can have 5 knights, 4 legions and 1 catapult ready to attack Pharsalos next turn, and the city is on a grassland. I don't expect more than 4 defenders garrisoned. Should i gamble? Next turn, 2 more catapults and some extra legions would be available. I decide to move the troops to cut out that wandering hoplite outside the city, then i'll decide.

In the interturn, a longbow from Pharsalos attacks a legion and dies, but the legionary is redlined. He'll be left where it is as a bait. If there are other longbows in Pharsalos, they'll probably try to finish him. But nothing happens.


650AD - Pharsalos. What should i do? I think that losing 1 or 2 units trying to estimate the enemy forces wouldn't be a tragedy. I can always stop the attack and wait for reinforcements if things go bad.

The visible defender is a veteran musketman. The catapult bombards and fails.
The first knight is sent to attack. Losing only 1 hitpoint, it kills the musketman. Now a regular musketman shows up.
The second knight is sent. It retreats redlined, and the musket is at 2/3 now. Another regular shows up.
The third knight attacks. Once again, redlined, and musket at 2/3. But the damaged musketman remains visible!!!

These are great news. No more that 2 musketmen at 2/3 are defending the town, and there are no hoplites at veteran level or above. But i can't tell if there are some weaker units inside. I think the situation is worth spending at least another knight...


The 4th knight charges, and is killed. The musket is redlined.
The 5th knight charges. Same as above. But the redlined musket is still visible.

No hoplites then. And no longbows at well. Those 2 redlined muskets are all that remains of the city defenders, and i have still 4 legionaries ready to attack, 3 veterans and 1 elite. Chances are on my side now.

The elite legion attacks and kills the redlined musketman.
A veteran legion attacks. It's redlined but gets promoted... and walks into the town! Pharsalos is captured! I guess i've been a little lucky this time...

There's still a hoplite wandering in the plain just outside Athens. Catapults redlines it, and a legion completes the task.

Workers are sent to road some strategic tiles. Next turn, optimal routes between Sparta and Corinth and between Athens and Pharsalos will be available.

My next target will obviously be Delphi. I've not finished the turn yet, i need to readjust production is some cities and dispatch the remaining free troops. After a pause, a coffee and a smoke. I need to enjoy myself sometimes :D

In the shot, my northern territory in 650AD, after the successful battle of Pharsalos.

A former lurker shows his face ;) You're doing great on this one, dude. Interesting - I learn a lot.

Roman patriots have secured an additional source of wine for your beloved citizens to drink and make merry. A source of iron appears safe and secure and will fuel the ironsmith's sacred art of fashioning swords, shields, and eating utensils. Danger still looms for the enterprising Roman people... what is this mysterious power that make the Greeks such fierce defenders... theoreticians regard it as saltpeter and have yet to discover its properties and locations...

Obscurity surrounds an underground group of rogue philosophers and inventors who are designing something called the printing press. civil disobedience is on the rise as faint whispers are being echoed on the street about a new form of government called Democracy...

@kenScott: good style! It fits perfectly with the story. You are welcome to contribute whenever you feel inspired. :thumbsup:

@Fjonis: thanx! And don't miss the next update. You can learn another lesson, about the possible consequences of a reckless attitude toward a fight... :cringe:

I'm writing the log right now, and i'll post it in a few minutes. But first i have to bang my head on the wall for a little... Stay tuned folks!

660AD - Operation Santorini, phase three

In the interturn, another lousy longbow has popped from Thermopylae and attacked a fortified pukeman on a mountain... go figure. In the northern front, a musketman is sent harassing my wheat floodplain tile NW of Sparta. 4 catapults weaken it, then a legion delivers the final blow. Alex is willing to waste the few troops he's left with. Good for me.

I secured the golden mountain two tiles west from Sparta. It will be the route for my invading troops. I used a longbow, in the hope to lure some attackers in Delphi into trying to recapture the tile.

I did nothing else, apart from building the planned roads and moving some troops toward Sparta. Reinforcement are still coming. A new knight company has just arrived, and the survived ones are healing. In the New World, Mario of the Persians has just lost the city of Arbela to the Iroquois. And no conquered Babylonian cities are willing to flip back to Jason.

Monty has lost control of its iron supply and consequently he's unable to build more jags. Good for me. There are 9 turns left of peace with Aztland and, obviously, they will be my next target once i get rid of Greece. Alex has founded another colony, far away in the middle of the ocean. This means that i can grab Thermopylae too before signing peace. I'll consider the idea.

Troops in Sparta still need to regain full strength. I'll face the risk of cultural flip and have them garrisoned for another turn. I cross the fingers and hit enter... nothing happens.

Another stinking musketman come to harass a hill north of Sparta. Alex, you would better keeps all your troops defending Delphi... anyway, if you're so dumb good for me.

At this point, i don't feel the need to be too cautious about attacking Delphi. I need to take that city ASAP, and a failed attack wouldn't be a disaster. And then, it's quite unprobable that Delphi has a strong garrison like those in Athens of Sparta.

Legions in Sparta have healed and it's time to move them. An "emergency team" of 2 legions, 2 longbows and 3 catapults is parked on the wheat tile NW of Sparta. They'll be used in case the city flips. A lonely damaged legionary is left into the city. The rest of the troops is moved on the golden hill hold by the guarding longbowman. Every other unit at full hit points that can reach the gathering point in time is sent there. 7 legions, 5 of them elite, 2 longbowmen, 3 knights and 6 catapults. There is nothing left to do but end the turn.

Another longbow from Thermopylae attack the very same pukeman, and this time it manages to damage it. The pike is moved into Elephantine where it can heal quickly. A garrisoned legion is sent in its place. The musketman north of Sparta don't pillage my hill nor it try to return home. It moves on a unroaded hill north instead. Mysteries of the AS.

Useless to say, my troops are moving toward Delphi. The emergency team outside Athens, 2 longbows and 2 legions, is sent on the golden mountain. Other troops take their place. A knight from Pharsalos join the party. The whole army previously amassed there advance on the open plains and prepare to deliver the blow. Next turn they'll be marching into Delphi.

690AD - Troubles never come alone

Something bad has happened. Athens has gone into civil disorder and in some cities the WLTKD has ended. I check and see that i no more have a supply of spices from Monty. The trade route between Rome and Aztland is interrupted, and so is our alliance against Greece. Probably a greek pester has pillaged a road in Aztland... no problem. I'll readjust the production and be fine.

I finally concluded the research on a Printing Press technology, but those American pukes have already discovered it! No premium tech to trade, then. I start to research Banking, but i don't count too much on being the first to discover it.

My valiant soldiers charge toward Delphi.

Catapults deliver their lethal blows. Not too letal this time. 2 veteran muskets are damaged, but another one shows up undamaged. There are at least 3 of them.

A knight charge and kill the third musketman, losing only 1 hitpoint. But a fourth veteran show up. I toss in a longbow. Killed. The defender lose only 1 hitpoint. And the count isn't finished yet: a fifth musket, veteran and undamaged, is there to welcome my soldiers. I send the 2nd longbow. Same story. Attacker killed, defender at 3/4. But this time no other muskets show up.

Five veteran musketmen defending. Worse than expected. One is killed, the remaining four are all at 3/4 hitpoints. Troops left for attack: 3 knights, 7 legions. I feel that i could have been too temerarious this time.

I order the remaining 3 knights to charge. The outcome is disastrous, all 3 killed. On the greek front, 1 musket is redlined, another one lose an hp but is promoted elite. There is a not-so-little chance that i'll lose this fight.

The first legionary charges, and kill a musketman. 3 stinkers left, for 6 legions. 28 hitpoints for me, 7 for the muskets. I decide to toss the remaining troops into the fight. And my decision turns to be wrong. At the end of the slaughter, one elite musketman still resists in Delphi, redlined but alive. And next turn it will be again at full hitpoints. For the first time in history, Roman attackers have been repealed.

I send reinforcement for the next turn. 1 knight, 1 legion and 2 longbows. Two more units will be able to sustain a second attack. And i still have those 6 catapults. But those 3 knight companies lost won't be easy to forget.

What to say more? I think i simply had a streak of bad luck. First with research, then with the supply of silks, and finally with the fight. Ok, i could have been more careful. But now it's too late to say it.

Today's shot is self-explicative, i guess...

@kenScott: 30 shields will either get you three workers free of upkeep, or one foreign settler, which can found a flip-prone city. To me that's a no-brainer, YMMV. ;)

700AD - Operation Santorini, phase four

The surviving musketman in Delphi is bombarded by catapults and weakened to 3/5 hitpoints. Then, finally, a knight charges and kill it. Delphi is mine, at least. And now i own the Great Wall, the most useless wonder in the game.

A Greek great leader was killed. I'll never know if it would have rushed a wonder... to hell with such nonsense! I've captured Delphi and that's what really matters. A greek galley has pooped a longbow on a mountain near Delphi, and a veteran musket is on the road. Next turn it would have joined the defense. Now it will be dispatched by my troops. Catapults bomb, and an elite legion finishes the job. A second regular musket has materialized on the hill south of Sparta. I haven't extra catapults to bomb it, so i'll let him pillage. Next turn i won't be so merciful.

5 turns left before peace with Monty expires. In the meantime, i can go to knock at the last important city of the former Greek Empire, Thermopylae.

I'm going to use knights and longbows to capture Thermopylae. Excess legionaries will be amassed in the northern towns of Sparta and Corinth, ready to invade Atzland. Surviving knights are moved to Heliopolis, and more are being trained. Legions garrisoned in Heliopolis are headed north, where they'll join their fellow comrades.

An elite legionary is moved on the mountain 2 tiles east of Thermopylae. He will be useful to monitor greek troops around. That city has at least one veteran musketman into it. I'm glad they are the last ones.

I'm building 2 settlers in Sparta and Pharsalos. They'll be useful to grab some extra land from Aztland before war is declared. The advance in the aztec territory will benefit from two temporary forts on the frontier.

In the interturn, nothing worth reporting happens. Next turn the harassing musket is easily dispatched. Troops relocation proceed as in the schedule. A lazy turn, the first from centuries. I hit enter once again.
The last of a countless number of greek longbows attack a fortified legion on a mountain. The attacker is killed, the legion wounded but promoted. Alex needs to be lectured about defense bonuses, i guess...

My battle plan is simple. Move catapults, longbowmen and the pikeman from Heliopolis to the mountain tile in the greek territory, now controlled by the elite legion. Next turn advance into the open plains, while knights fro Heliopolis will move on the mountain. Third turn, combined strike.


720AD - The final blow to Greece

The attack begins. The 'slow' units move to the mountains. To the north, i kill the last greek longbow still wandering around Sparta.

Next turn the slow units advance on the plains and knights ride to the mountain tile.

In 740AD the Roman Army delivers its final blow to Greece. The catapults weaken 1 veteran musket. The mounted units charge.

Our knights suffer heavy casualties. 3 killed, 3 redlined. But the 3 defenders in Thermopylae are all redlined. 2 longbow and 1 legion left. 3 attacker for 3 defenders. The defenders are stronger, but the attackers are 1 elite and 2 veterans at full hitpoints, while all defenders are at minimum strength.

My recklessness has costed me a failure on Delphi, but hey! This in not a good reason to turn into a coward! Roman soldiers, for the glory of our Empire, CHARGE!

The elite legion attacks. Hitpoints go down and down, while the valiant defender still resists. The legion is redlined, but finally it kills its opponent. Two defender left.

The first longbow attacks. It loses 1 hitpoint, then kills the musketman an get promoted. A lone defender left, with a measley 1hp.

The second longbow attacks. It gets some damage, but wins and walk boldly into the conquered city. Thermopylae is mine.

All that remains of the once great nation of Greece is Knossos, a worthless town on a small island in the middle of nowhere. Now, let's offer peace to poor Alex.

Hello, Alex. Your days as a great ruler are gone forever. Your once great empire is no more. Your ex-citizens are going to become loyal servants of the Roman Crown. They'll give their contribute for the greatness of our Empire. Are you happy? You aren't? Whatever. I'm here to offer you a generous peace treaty between our nations. The terms are simple: you give me everything you've got, and i let you live for now. Do you agree? What? These are your premium techs? I know it, and that's precisely the reason why i want them, you moron. Hand them over and we'll be fine. WHAT? You cannot hand them over for nothing? Ok, what if i send you a dozen legion companies to your lousy island, is it a fair price for you? Money? Holy crap! All right, my coffers are overflowing and i cannot be bothered sending a punitive force half world away to teach you properly who's strong and who's weak. I have more important things to do. 45 golds per turn, or my legions. Choose quickly, i'm a busy man. You say you'll take the gold? All right, the deal is made. Now disappear from my sight before i start kicking your butt, you worthless puke. What? This is your house? All right, i'm leaving then.

I come home with the knowledge of Gunpowder and Astronomy. I have two sources of saltpeter on my lands. Good. I think it's the time to craft a battle plan for the incorporation of Aztland. Monty's land is still for the most part, a disease-ridden jungle. I think i'm doing a favor to those losers if i take over their land. They will be living better under the Roman Crown.


Now it's time to tour around to see how my opponents are performing. In the New World, the Iroquois have conquered Susa and Ashur. Persia is being seriously beaten by the overwhelming forces of Bob of the Iroquois. And Babylon is stuck with those 2 cities. Surprisingly, not one of the former Babylonian cities conquered by the Iroquois has flipped back.

All 3 of them are backwards. Bob still lacks Engineering, and all the techs above Education. Persia is in an even worse shape. He lacks Engineering and Theology. Babylon lacks Invention, Printing Press and Astronomy. It's a long way to go before having musketmen. Persia and Iroquois have iron, so they can build knight and pukeman (and immortals, for Persia). Babylon lacks iron so it's still stuck with bowmen.

Egypt and Greece aren't even worth considering.

Aztland. As i said, still a disease-ridden jungle. They must have suffered heavy pillaging from the Greeks, since a good part of their "clear" territory is unroaded and undeveloped. They haven't reconnected their souce of iron yet, and they lack horses. They're stuck with spearmen and longbows. No jaguars, no knights. I think it's the right time to attack them.

What is worrying me now is America. Seven centuries ago, i described them as a people with a marginal role in history. Well, they are no more. They have iron, horses and saltpeter, and this means knights and musketmen. They are leaders in technology. With Navigation, they can trade with anyone in the world. And with Chemistry, they're only 2 tech away from mastering Military Tradition. When we'll meet again in battle, i risk to face american Blue Coats. Then, they own Sun Tzu in Washington and Copernicus in New York. Veterans units everywhere without the need of building barracks and a good science outcome. And their culture is significant and growning. Conquered towns will be at high risk of flip.

What to do now? First, every pikeman company will be upgraded with muskets. Second, troops will be re-deployed. Some knights will be sent north, a few others will be left in 2 key points of the southern empire, to deal with eventual Aztec pesters coming from their galleys. A few naval units will be built. And some cultural buildings are also required. But my main spending is still on the military.

It's 740AD now. One turn left for the expiring of peace treaty with Monty, but i'm going to delay the invasion for the turns necessary to build the two forts on the border and move legions to their gathering points. I'm at peace with everyone now. I don't remember the last turn i wasn't at war with someone... anyway, these peace times will not last long.

----------------------------------------------------------

In the picture, a collage of 2 different screenshots. Top image: my battle plan for the conquest of Thermopylae. Yellow lines are the "slow" troops, blue lines are the knights. Numbers represent the turns. Bottom image: the last remnant of the greek empire, an island town in the middle of the ocean.

More big things are coming. Stay tuned for Operation Cortès. Seeya dudes!

I like the pukemen! :lol:

Congrats on crushing Alex!

Egyptians still alive???

Yea, knock that last Egyptian city out so they are out of the way.

I like the pukemen! :lol:

Congrats on crushing Alex!
:D

It would be fun to make a real pukeman unit, for some crazy mods...
Attacking with its :vomit: and defending with the stink :lol:

Yeah, Greece and Egypt are still alive as city-states (1 town each). About Egypt, i had to leave 1 city to Cleo in order to sign peace and extort her everything. Then i had my "dealings" with Greece for a long time, and Pi-Ramesses was so crappy and far away that it wasn't worth conquering. And for Greece it's the same. That lousy island so far away isn't worth the effort.

Even now, i have no particular need to capture the last egyptian city. It has nothing of interest for me, and Egyptian culture is minimal. I'd better focus on Aztland, but if i find myself with some knights sitting idle, i'll send them to Cleo. It is obvious that, in the long run, i'll have to take over it anyway for domination purposes. But right now it's not at the top of my priorities.

Looking back, it took only 21 game turns to get rid of Greece and assimilate its core territory. In spite of some "too optimistic" valutations of the enemy military, some forced changes in the battle plans and a failed attack, the campaign against Alex has been led with a tremendous efficiency.

It's war time again... this game is really addictive to play! :evil:

I can't wait for the war with America. (You know it is coming)

One great lesson (out of many) this game has taught me is the usefullness of catapults. I never used to bother with artillery units until Artillery could actually be made. Not even cannons usually, except in rare cases. I always found them a bother to drag around with me on my war path. Now I must be more patient. Skillfully done my friend.

@Drahkkael: thanks! To be honest, i've always overlooked catapults until a few months ago. Then i realized how they can be useful in skirmishes. Since they're a little crappy, you need some of them in order to do some damage, or you'll be in the hands of the RNG whims. The good thing is that even if you do a 1hp damage to harassing troops, in almost all cases they'll retreat to heal, so you don't have to put in danger your precious troops.

Another unit that i've snubbed since recently (and i was wrong) is the horseman. Ok, it sucks, but it has a great prerogative: mobility. Used in team with catapults it can be quite effective when dealing with harassers. Catapults weaken them, horses finish them and then retreat to the safety of the city.

----------------------------------------------

750AD - Operation Hernan Cortes

Before defining the details of the battle plan, i'm doing some preliminary spying on Atzec towns. I need to have an estimate of defending forces, in order to deploy my troops with maximum efficience.

Texcoco is a size 3 town defended by 2 veteran pukemen. No barracks, no walls. One happy citizen, one content and a clown. Considering the supply of spices, they should be 1 happy and 2 content. It seems that war weariness is already having significant effects on the mood of those one-percenters. Aztec economy went badly broke: Texcoco, with 238 culture points, has no improvement at all. The reason may be only one: improvement existed, but were scrapped in order to get some money.

Monty, why don't you sign peace with Alex? The last greek town is half world away and totally unreachable until you discover Astronomy (i.e. never), so what's the point of staying at war? Well, if you really want war, wait a few turn and you'll have all the war you want...

An investigation on Tehotihuacan confirm my suspects. 5 content citizens and 2 clowns. No barracks. 2 veteran pukemen, 1 regular spear and 1 catapult. And Tlatelolco: size 3, barracks and walls, 2 veteran spears defending, currently training a longbow. All 3 towns on grasslands. Weak defences, my legions supported by catapults should deal with them easily.

At this moment i have 18 legionary companies, 9 catapults and 3 knights ready to cross the border. Other 3 knight companies are actually healing in Heliopolis, but should be able to reach the battle zone in time.

Due to the preliminary tasks that must be fulfilled, the invasion should start 5 turns for now. In the meantime, some cities are building musketmen, in order to free the garrisoned legions and send them to the battle zone.

The first phase of Operation Cortès should lead to the annexation of Tehotihuacan, Tlatelolco, Texcoco and Tenochtitlan. In phase 2, Rome will eat the remaining settlements of Tlaxcala and Calixtlahaca, and perhaps we will rename these cities into something more human... :D The northern settlement of Xochicalco will be left alone. As for the greek capital, it's not worth the effort to capture it, for now. Once disposed of America, we may come to knock at their doors.

The shot is an overview of the Aztec territory, with the battle plan i intend to use. The plan will follow those steps:

- A settler will found a fort on tile 1. The solid border in blue delimits the territory it will claim
- Workers will be sent to road the tile marked as 2. Acting this way, i'll have the conquered Aztec towns already connected with my road network.
- Once the road is completed, the whole mass of my legionary will invade Aztland and head for Tehotihuacan. A minor force will cross the border north of Delphi to capture Tlatelolco.
- Once captured the city, a small contingent of troops will be sent east to dispose of Texcoco, while the main force will head north for Tenochtitlan.
- After Tenochtitlan is captured, my forces should rejoin and proceed west to claim the rest of that crappy land.

---------------------------
I'm still playing... hopelessly addicted :mischief: - stay tuned for more news from the front!

@kenScott: 30 shields will either get you three workers free of upkeep, or one foreign settler, which can found a flip-prone city. To me that's a no-brainer, YMMV. ;)
why would you found a city? you build a worker in the city next and disband the settler to add to the shield production for the worker. We're trying to get rid of foreigners here. Going through the trouble of building 3 workers will require several more turns and the city could flip.

820AD - Swords are drawn

In the previous turns, the mobilization has proceeded as it was planned. The only relevant event is the complete annexation of the Persian peninsula by Bob of the Iroquois. Pasagardae and Persepolis has fallen. Four small cities on the islands south of the New World are all what remain of the Persian Republic.

I'm popping workers from Forte Cucco. This fort has served its purpose, but now it's going to be abandoned and rebuilt 1 tile NW. This way, i'll have Athens connected to the grid. After built a temple, Delphi will produce a settler. It will be used to expand north the communication line. I fell i will need it a lot when i'll confront America.

In the 820AD, operation Cortes has officially begun. War with Aztecs is declared. 17 legion companies, 2 muskets and 6 catapults cross the border and invade the open plains south of Tehotihuacan. Next turn they'll be marching on the town.

At the same time, 6 slave workers, 1 legion, 2 longbow and 4 knights position themselves on the open plain south of Tlatelolco.

Amazingly, Monty and Alex are still at war. Do they like so much being in war weariness? Good for them. I hit enter and prepare for battle.

In the interturn, Bob of the Iroquois calls an audience. "You exist because the Iroquois allow you to exist. Now give us Gunpowder or else". Oh, my! Thank you Bob! You've been so kind to allow us to exist for such a long time. Now drop dead, i have a little war to win and i'm quite busy.

Bob declares. Fool. Do you suppose to cross the ocean with your lousy boats? Whatever. Nothing better than a few turns of war happiness to calm some unhappy citizens. And yours, probably, will be less than pleased.

Monty tries to skirmish with a longbow. It's been a good idea to delay the attack 1 turn so those musket companies could join the party. The longbow is killed, the musket is undamaged and promoted.

Now it's my turn. Catapults do little damage. Legionaries are more effective. In the first assault, 2 legions are lost and 2 damaged, but the 2 veteran pukemen are no more a nuisance. A legion falls against a regular spear. Another one kills a longbow and, finally, generates a leader. The 7th legion kills the spear and capture the city. On the other front, peasants build the road and knights attack. Tlatelolco is captured. Troops are amassed in the city to quickly quell resistance.

10 free legions south of Tehotihuacan. One kill a longbow to the east. Another one kill the 2nd longbow but is redlined. Another one is sent to defend. And six companies are sent on the plains NW or Texcoco. A bold move, but i feel that most of the harassers have already been killed.

In the interturn, nothing newsworthy. A pukeman, a longbow and a jag wander around. Preys for my troops.

840AD - My troops charges toward Texcoco. 2 legion companies are lost and one is damaged, but the city falls. I move a musket and a catapult to defend from harassers, then garrison my troops to quickly get rid of resistors.

The harassing pukeman is weakened with catapults and finished with a knight. The jag and the longbow are weakened. Some slaves are sent to establish a fast communication line between Texcoco and Corinth. On the other front, troops fortify in Tlatelolco, and the 6 slaves are sent around developing some unproductive tiles. Phase 1 of Operation Cortes has been quite successful. 3 Aztec settlements are already in my hands. Casualties were minimal. And their capital will be my next prey.

I rushbuild the University in Athens. Next turn the leader will be rushing Bach. I renounce building an army in favour of those 2 extra content citizen in every town. In my core territory unhappiness will never be a problem anymore, and some troops now used as MP will soon be available for the front. Newly conquered towns will benefit of it as well.

I hit enter. Resistance ends in all the conquered towns. Some harassers still wander around. A stinking aztec galley has dropped a pukeman next to Heliopolis. Those few extra troops left around the zone will finally have a chance to draw blood. Time to quit playing for now. Next session tonight.

In the shot: the Aztec area just conquered by my troops. 3 cities in 3 turns - a devastating blitzkrieg.

Quality game, keep going. Agree with Drahkkael, never realised how good catapults are.

We should sticky this.
4000 views 0_o

@Arachnaphobia: thanx! And don't worry, the game will go on, i'm firmly intent on beating the crap out of the AS as much as i can :evil:

We should sticky this.
4000 views 0_o
I'm surprised too! :wow:

------------------------------------------------

850AD - Preparing for the big hunt

The next target is the capital of Aztland, Tenochtitlan. But first my soldiers will clean the place from some aztec pesters that still harass my newly conquered territory. This way i can free some of my units from the duty of garrisoning the communication line. A jaguar, a spear and 2 longbow need to be disposed of. Some of them are already damaged. My catapults redline 2 of them and reduce the others at max 2hp. But before sending the legions to complete the task, i rush the Bach Cathedral in Athens with the leader. I hope to poop another leader using the elite legions. No luck. Harassers are sent to hell with minimal damage, but no leader this time.

Some slaves are sent north, protected by a musket, to build a road for a quick link between Tehotihuacan and Tlatelolco. Damn Monty, you could have spent some extra resources to rebuild a decent road network instead of fighting against windmills, you lazy moron.

Sparta has just finished a greek settler. It is sent to a hill 2 tiles north of Athens where, in the next turn, it will build another fort. Two knights have just been trained in Memphis and Remola. They are promptly sent north. An extra mobile force may be quite useful in case i run short of legionaries.

The harassing pukeman around Heliopolis is weakened by a catapults and killed by an elite longbow. Once again, no leader show up.

America is in Democracy now. Bad news. I need to spy on them ASAP, in order to collect Banking and Chemistry, but money is too tight to mention. No rushbuilding at least for a while, unless REALLY necessary.

After being badly beaten, Mario of the Persians has finally managed to deliver a pair of blows to Bob. He captured a small island settlement and destroyed an iroquois town on the same island where its new capital is. More war weariness for Bob, i suppose.

I end my turn, and nothing worth reporting happens, except for Monty and Alex regaining some mental sanity and signing a peace treaty. But at this point they are worthless.

Oops, wait... a stinky aztec galley has dropped 2 longbows next to Texaco. Redlined and killed. I gust gather my forces in Tihuacan and wait for some legions to heal. The fort is built. End of the turn.

Bob and Mario has finally signed peace. The war has been devastating for Persia. All its core territory is now in the hands of the Iroquois. Losers.


870AD - An unpleasant surprise

Phase 2 of Operation Cortes begins. 11 legions, 6 catapults and 1 musket head for Tenochtitlan. Next turn 4 knight companies will join the party. Another longbow is neutralized. The bad news are that those vermins have learned Gunpowder, and now their capital is defended by muskets. I don't know how much of their obsolete units has been upgraded.

Tenochtitlan has been founded on the only lousy hill around. Those damned muskets will defend at 9. Pikes at 6.75, longbow at 4.5. The mobilized soldiers won't be enough to conquer that city. Reinforcements will be needed.

Next turn my units advance. 2 legions and 4 catapults are all is available to go now. They cross the border and positions 1 tile behind of the main attacking force.

In 890AD the siege of Tenochtitlan begins. Catapult bombard, and their performance is abysmal. None of them hits the target, except for the last one that kills a population unit. Next turn i really hope to do something better.

Some muskets have just been trained. They are sent north through the new communication line. The Aztec settler has just been created in Tlatelolco. That crappy town is going to be relocated.

A legion is sent scouting on the golden mountain north of Tlatelolco, in aztec territory. Clalix... let's simplify that absurd name. Calixaca. Calixaca is defended only by pukemen. Good. The bad side is that it's on a hill. Some slaves are sent to build a road.

In the interturn, a longbow leaves Tenochtitlan, heading west. Thank you, Monty. I see you want to easen my attack a bit.


900AD - Tenochtitlan is bombarded again. After 6 failed attempts, the musket is finally weakened, and a pukeman show up. Good. Only one of those suckers. The pike is weakened, and another one takes its place. The last shots are unsuccessful.

My mounted units charge. The first knight fails miserably and dies. The second retreats redlined. The third finally manages to inflict some damage to that damned pike, but is killed and the pike is promoted. The 4th has to deal with the weakened musket. Knight redlined, musket at 2/4. A regular pike appears.

12 legion divisions are sent to charge. When the battle is over, 5 of them has been completely obliterated, and 2 are badly damaged, but the city falls. 1 vet musket, 2 vet pukemen and 1 regular were defending that pitiful excuse for a capital. All the remaining free troops are garrisoned inside. A catapult has been captured. No workers and, once again, no barracks. Damn.

On the golden mountain, 6 more slaves are sent to speed up the roadbuilding. More troops are available from Tenochtitlan, 3 legions, 1 musket, 1 catapult. They are sent north and stationed on the new border. Next turn a fair amount of "slow" troops will be available to invade again. Knights from Tlatelolco are sent north in the sight of a combined strike.

The "final" worker in Tlatelolco is pooped out. Next turn that rotten town will be moved. And my troops will be moving again.

In the interturn, Monty's troops try pathetically to skirmish. A longbow is sent attacking. A catapult tear off 1 hitpoint and the musketman dispose of the rest. No damage done. Abe continue to be wonder-crazy. He's finished Magellan in Philadelphia and just started Shakespeare in... bah. I don't remember where.

Tonight's shot: my territory in 900AD :smoke:

I think Abe is just sitting back and building, building, building while the rest of the world wars. You had no choice though. The coming battles should be interesting.

it's 4:00 am here and tomorrow (well, today) i'm at work. Ah, the power of Civ Addiction... :D

I tell you man, THE game is killing ya :D Anyway this is quite nice story, keep up good posting.

I was wondering if you could give us the scores, relative power, and relative culture at this point in the game just to see where you are and what you have to do. Obviously Bob and Abe will have higher scores, but I wonder how their power ranks against yours.

Kill the yellow city, since then their score is gonna "free fall" and you will gain a new city.

the suspense is killing me!!! Go Abe Go!!!!

@Shadow: The yellow city (Egypt) is there from ages, since my assimilation of the egyptian core territory well before year zero. I overlooked it for a series of reasons: it's crappy, it would have been corrupted, and i had more pressing "matters" with the greeks and the aztecs. Even now my whole excess military is placed north in order to crush Aztland at full speed, so i haven't the necessary troops to eat it. But i will.

@Zelda's: i was waiting year 1000 to post some shots from the histograph. Stay tuned, just a few turns left.

@777: you're right... :mischief: today, it was a real pain in the @## to wake up...

@Drahk: yes, that's exactly what he's doing from bloody ages. He was blessed by good territory and resources, so he's just sitting idle and developing... but soon my legions will knock at his door to, ehm, relieve him from the bore :D

@kenScott: HOW YOU DARE! My legions will come and... wait, this is real life. Uh, never mind then.

Leaving workplace right now, i've played 2 more turns last night but was too sleepy to post the log... i'll do it once at home. Don't miss the next update! More serious beating on Monty is on schedule :evil: Seeya later dudes!

Abe is just minding his business and those damn Romans are going to give him a Pearl Harbor sooner or later. You will awaken the sleeping giant.

He will wake the giant then topple hhim like David and Goliath. America's puny soldiers will fall under the might of the Roman Empire.

tR1cKy,

This thread is fantastic! I just found this site about a week ago and started playing the GOTM (we'll see how that goes :blush: ) and I love seeing these threads about someones games! I first read zerksees comeback with Japan in the War Academy and now this!

Thanks!

almost 4,500 views
500 views per day.
that gotta tell you something

I scarcely post.. .but i read at least once every other day... Its an interesting story.

Guys, once again i am glad to see all this positive feedback. And yes, the viewcount is skyrocketing :wow: I didn't imagine that my game log would have generated all this interest. Thanx to all! :hatsoff:

@k-a-bob: welcome to CivFanatics!
:beer:
(It's the first time i welcome someone)
And thanx once again! But if you want to see something just plain outstanding (and insane!), i suggest you Bamspeedy's Beyond Sid. You'll be amazed.

---------------------------------------------------------------

910AD - Things get complicated

Half of the eastern Roman army move toward Calixaca. 4 legions, 2 muskets and 6 catapults. The troops amassed north of Tlatelolco are going to join the party. 6 knights, 2 longbows and 1 legion will be available for a coordinated strike.

The rest of the eastern army is parked outside Tenochtitlan, except for a legion still healing. That lousy city is at high risk of flipping. Too close from the enemy capital, too far away from mine, too ridden with foreigners, for the most part resistors. I haven't enough troops to enact my "good rule", so parking my troops outside is the only option. The redlined knights are sent to Texoco, where a barracks is rushed. If they find themselves in enemy territory, they'll be stuck with 1 hp.

Aztecs harassers are long gone. Tlatelolco is abandoned and resettled on the tile NE of its previous position, with the new name of Augusta. Alas, the communication line is not finished yet. Some roading through jungles and mountains will be necessary to properly connect Tehotihuacan once relocated. Slaves continue to work some unproductive tiles. Monty seems to have caved in the idea to be wiped out quickly. He doesn't even try to skirmish.

I end my turn. Nothing important seems to happen. Then, the sight you never want to see:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/DamnFlip1.jpg

Amazingly, during my whole campaign of Greece no conquered city flipped, and Greece had about 5x my culture. On the other hand, aztec culture is about the same as mine, and Tenochtitlan flipped just after the 1-turn grace period expired. I guess the relative distance of our capitals made the difference. The distance and some RNG gods in a bad mood. :(

Bad news aren't finished yet. The unit materialized into Tenochtitlan after the flip is a musketman. I was expecting a spear, since that saltpeter tile in aztec territory is still unconnected. Then, where does those lepers take saltpeter from? I guess the culprit is Xochicalco, that stinking aztec settlement on the far north. A quick look at the map and, yes, there's saltpeter on a hill SE of the town, the tile is connected and the town has a harbor. No other aztec cities have harbors, but America has plenty of them, and there's still a road connecting America with what remains of Aztland. Go figure.

Anyway, Tenochtitlan must be recaptured. I can do it right now, since when the grace period ends Calixaca will be already in my hands, or at least i hope so. The 6 catapults bombard. After 4 missed shots, the 5th destroy the marketplace and the last shot finally manage to weaken that pesky musketman. With the defender at 2/3, i send the legions. A veteran legionary dies charging, the musket is damaged but gets promoted. Now it's at 2/4. An elite legionary charge, it's redlined but wins! Tenochtitlan is mine again, and the victorious legion has popped a leader. Good news, at least. An army will be quite useful in the upcoming battles.

The leader is sent to Texoco, where it builds an army. Two legions still outside Tenochtitlan are sent into the town. The rest of my army move towards Calixaca. Next turn they'll be marching into the town. 18 slave workers are sent with the troops moving from south to build a road through the jungle.

A settler is rushed in Tehotihuacan, then i end my turn. In the interturn, Jason of Babylon offers his world maps in return of my world maps and gunpowder. Should i laugh or should i send a bunch of my legions to teach him some common sense? You'll be spared for the moment, Jason. You're already worthless enough to not being attacked.

In the shot: Aztecs' damn source of saltpeter. Next update coming later, i'm still playing...

920AD - The price to be paid

From the Holy Book of Zeus, the official sacred text of the Olympic Roman Church:
...spare their lives, respect their houses, do not deprive them of the little they have, grant them food, water, and a safe place to rest. Conqueror, be merciful of the conquered, for he already lost the most precious thing he had: his pride.
From the speech of General Iulianus to the doomed populace of the ex-insurgent city of Tenochtitlan, after the recapture of 920AD
BE GLAD, YOU PUKES!
If it wasn't for the Holy Teachings of our Lord Zeus, your pathetic excuse for a city would be burning from the ground now, and you'll be running for your worthless lives chased by the blades of our legionaries!
Anyway, your crimes won't be forgiven! You have revolted against the benevolent government or Rome, spitted on its simbols and slaughtered all the legionaries that had the misfortune to be garrisoning that rotten mass of crap! There's a price to pay for such actions! And. It's. Not. Cheap.
Shut up, you maggots! Shut your mouths, or i'll fill them with boiling oil! And to hell with the holy teachings of Zeus! I have an edict to tell! As the appointed Military Governor of the Conquered Province of Tenochtitlan, in the name of His Majesty the King of Rome, i, General Iulianus, order what follows:

"The whole population of the Conquered Province of Tenochtitlan should be gathered, identified, properly reported in our civil registers and sent to the labor camps where they'll spend the rest of their miserable lives. Once the Province is emptied, the City of Tenochtitlan will be used as a source of raw materials for the construction of a new town, in a different location, where loyal Roman citizens will come to live."

Understood, you rotten sons of a leprous dog? You'll never see your land again. From now on, the only important things in your life will be your showel and the whip of your overseer if you don't work hard enough! Centurions! Start the gathering!

-----------------------
NOTE 1: if it wasn't for the set of extra rules i'm following, i would have razed Tenochtitlan the first time i captured it. But i cannot do it, nor i can abandon it until size 1 or starve it intentionally. So i'm popping slave workers until size 1 and then i'll abandon it. A new town will be founded on the tile NW of it, on the coast and next to the river.

NOTE 2: as someone may have been noticed, i made a little step back with this "chapter". Actually, i'm already in 930AD, since in the previous post i commented the interturn. It's for scenic reasons that i'm reporting Iulianus' speech in the very same turn i re-conquered Tenochtitlan.

"understand you rotten sons of a leprous dog?"
HA HA HA HA HA HA that's forking hillarious
teach those bastards a lesson. Fart in their general direction.

Funny. I want more pictures :(

930AD - Monty's doom

Calixaca has fallen. Easily.
No more than 2 pikemen defended the city, one veteran and one regular. The majority of the Roman soldiers wasn't even needed in the battlefield.

I have spared the mounted units and so they are ready to advance through the road just built without movement penalties. They cross the conquered town, head west on the plains and arrive on the mountains one tile west to Tlaxcala. Next turn they'll be marching into it.

Some aztec worker are still mining two mountain tiles around Tlaxcala. Fools. Next turn that stinking town will be mine, and you'll be headed for the labor camps. Sit idle while you can.

Monty is giving up its former territory with little or no resistance. Its new capital is now Tlaxcala, but he's probably already headed to that lousy settlement in the far north.

Some troops approaching from east are sent back into Tenochtitlan to get rid quickly of the resistors. Two companies are stationed in the western plains to protect the workers sent to build a road and develop the tile. The others are stationed in Calixaca.

Alex of Greece is a continuous surprise! He somehow managed to acquire Banking, Chemistry and Navigation. An amazing accomplishment for a worthless city-state on a small island in the middle of the ocean. And he's also built a harbor, so i can trade him some of my excess goods. I think i can grab a favourable price if i offer him to buy a tech, but i'll wait for the gpt deal to end next turn.

The turn ends and, in the meanwhile, nothing newsworthy happens.


940AD - Our valiant knights attack Tlaxcala. The town is built on a hill, and the defending pukemen are offering some resistance. The first knight kills a pike, then 2 companies retreat redlined. The 4th units finally dispose of the remaining defender and march into the town. Tlaxcala is mine.

Operation Cortès is over. All the former core territory of Aztland is in my hands. I've acquired a stable supply of spices and some excess goods to trade. And, most importantly, i'm stronger than ever.

It took only 11 game turns to get rid of the Aztec Republic as a significative entity in the world's politics. Now, let's offer peace to poor little Monty. Hello, you pitiful excuse for a ruler. As you may have noticed, our legions came in and grabbed all your land. Frankly, i cannot undestand how your populace could withstand such an incompetent dinasty of leaders for so long time. 5000 years of history, and the most of your (ex) land is still covered by jungle and plagued by disease! Anyway this worthless rock still in your hands is of no interest for me, so i'm offering you peace. Agreed? Ok. I hope to never see again your ugly face. Goodbye.

Now let's carve out something useful from Alex. My gpt payment to him expires this turn, along with the peace treaty. This 45 gpt payment was agreed as part of the peace negotiations between us. Now, before someone asks me what was i smoking when i signed that deal, let me explain better. After beating him to death, i offered him peace in return of Gunpowder and Astronomy. But he refused to hand me over these tech for nothing, so i had to toss in some money or renounce to one of the two.

Apparently, it was a smart move. Its economy grew, he built a harbor and was able to discover new techs. And now i can toss in the renovation of the peace treaty in the upcoming negotiations, although i don't know how much money i'll save this way.

First i try to ask him a tech. Navigation. He want iron, horses and 870 gold. Chemistry: iron, horses and 1520 gold. Now let's renegotiate peace and try to ask some money. Hmmm, he's willing to offer me 100 gold for peace. A marginal gain, and now i'm forced to strike a deal or we'll end up being at war, not exactly what i want at the moment. Let's try to grab Banking and Chemistry. Hmm... luxuries seem quite worthless for him, and 110 gold per turn are too much. Chemistry, then. He want iron, horses, saltpeter and 50 gpt. Agreed. If i manage spy something else from America, i can try to trade the stolen techs for Banking and Navigation.

The turn isn't over yet. I have to assign tasks to some peons, relocate some troops, and, most importantly, decide what to do now. I need to contact Abe and inquiry about the techs he own. I need some spying on American cities to have an estimate of their defending forces. Then it would not be a bad idea to spy on Egypt to see if my excess knights can conquer quickly that last egyptian city.

But now i haven't the necessary time to evaluate everything and take the appropriate decisions. We'll see tonight. In the shot: the former aztec territory now in my hands and the link between Rome and America. Even crossing the border would be slow, perhaps i should build some boats to trasport my troops for a quick assault on San Francisco and Atlanta... more troubles to be solved tonight.

1.get TONS of workers, clean up the forests.
2.Go for Military Tradition/Cavalry.

Hi! About your suggestions:
1) yes, i'll need them. Those conquered aztec cities will provide asome fine slaves. But before chopping the jungle i'll complete the communications line. Strategy first!
2) this is the obvious path to follow, and with chemistry i'm short 2 techs: metallurgy ->military tradition. btw, knights are not that bad against muskets, so it's not a run against the time, unless those pesky american discovers nationalism, but they're still in the middle age. Of course, with cavalries available it would be better :)

I'm going to load the game right now, do a careful analysis on the whole situation then post it. I don't exclude the possibility of going for magnetism instead. Not for galleons, but for trading with the iroquois, in case we sign peace... nothing must be excluded, sometimes the best course of action is not the obvious one, we'll see.

If you rush the temple in Tlaxcala your knights/cav can reach the mountain outside San Fran in one turn. And you gain another spice.

If you have enough boats, I like the idea of dropping a buttload of troops (offensive, defensive and artillery on the mountain just east of San Fran.

Otherwise it will be slow walking along the hills and this way you get 100% defensive bonus. The 1 MP troops can attack SF and the knights can go for Hot-lanta if the others are successful. (My 2 cents)

If you rush the temple in Tlaxcala your knights/cav can reach the mountain outside San Fran in one turn. And you gain another spice.

If you follow the temple rush and border expansion with a settler placed on the spices you will have a 1 turn attack on Atlanta and can reach the hills next to San Fran.

Hi you all! Once again i see good advice around. Yes, the landgrab is essential to acquire a good starting point for the invation. And the cultural expansion followed by founding of a fort on the spice tile seems the perfect way to go.
About ships, alas i have not one of them at the moment. :(

940AD - Strategic considerations

The game has progressed well since now. The last phase has been pretty straighforward, but now it's time for some serious considerations before deciding the next step.

First, i get rid of all the non-critical tasks. Tlaxcala must be connected to the rest of my cities. Slaves are sent to build a road in the plain west of Calixaca. Other are sent to mine the plain east. Next turn they will be rejoined and sent to road the mountain.
Workers are rushed in Tenochtitlan (the city will be moved next turn) and Calixaca.

The knights sent to conquer Tlaxcala are all are all garrisoned in the town. There are barracks there, and so they can heal quickly. Some muskets are sent too. Cultural pressure from America is not to be underestimated.

Second, Alex. It should be a convenient idea to let him progress a little. He's scientific so he'll get a free tech at the start of the industrial era. A tech that i can acquire via trading. Let's offer him wines and spices. More happiness should help.

Now, Egypt. The city-state of Pi-Ramesses is defended by 4 spears and 1 archer. An easy prey. Cleo has no iron and no saltpeter, and she also lack the money to upgrade that worthless archer into a longbow. And, finally, she's so backwards that there's no possibility that she will ever acquire a useful tech for me.

I have some legions that won't be too useful from now. I can send them south and have them capture Pi-Ramesses in 7/8 turns. It may be a good idea to fill my army with knights and send it too. A victory is almost certain and i'll be able to build the Heroic Epic, thus raising my chance to poop leaders. But there's the possibility that the army will be required elsewhere...

America now. Amazingly, Abe lacks Physics and Metallurgy. He went for the "optional path" instead. He knows Banking, Democracy, Free Artistry, Navigation and Economics. I can see it from its government and from the wonders he's building. I feared he could have already mastered Military Tradition (Cavalries) or being on the way for industrial age (Riflemen)... good for me.

I go to the steal technology menu, just to see how much it costs. Safely spying for 1892 gold, less than expected. Being in Vanilla, if i steal Banking i am awarded a second tech. The choice would be Economics (i don't mind about Democracy) unless Abe discovers a new tech. Metallurgy or Physics would be more useful. Perhaps it's a good idea to delay the tech robbery.

I need to spy at least one american city. My pick is San Francisco. Size 11 city, founded on a hill, 110 gold to investigate it. The picture is quite revealing.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS001.jpg

Only 3 muskets, 1 vet and 2 regular. But defending at 9. I'll need lots of catapults and all the knights available. And the army. But Abe's defenses are lower than expected.

110 golds, and the city is producing wealth instead of units. Some economy problems? Abe is spending 80% in science and 0% in luxury. What are you researching, Abe? 42 beakers only in San Francisco is a good science outcome. Near to 1000 culture points, more than my best cultural city. But only 7 shields per turn. 5 turns for a musket, 6 for a knight.

Resources. Saltpeter, iron and horses are available. This translates into knights and muskets. And cavalry, when available. The good news are that Abe has only 1 supply of each of them. A resource denial could be an option. The matter needs further investigations. First, let's locate the tiles producing those resources.

Saltpeter is extracted from a desert tile south of New York, in a coastal tile. Good news. A caravel from Tlaxcala, loaded with muskets, can reach quickly the adiacent coastline and drop units directly on the saltpeter tile. But oviously it must be built first.

Iron. Out from a hill right below Miami, that American settlement on the island NE of the main continent. There's little to do about it.

Horses. Where are they? There's no visible source of horses in the American territory. Under a city? Checked. Nope. They should be acquiring them via trade. Let's go into the foreign screen and see... yes, there's an active trade with the Iroquois, and those bastards have at least 2 sources of horses in their mainlands. Nothing to do then. I can deny saltpeter to Abe, but cannot stop him from training knights. Anyway, better than nothing.

A thing is absolutely clear: i need to strengthen a little before starting the invasion, and some preliminary operations are also required. Tlaxcala must expand culturally ASAP. That spice tile will be quite useful: once claimed, a settler can found a fort there and claim a little more land. This way, both San Francisco and Atlanta may be reached in only 1 turn, and a coordinated strike on the 2 american cities is also possible.

The alternative is using boats to unload troops next to the selected target, thus avoiding some movement penalty. The problem is that i don't have these boats. My naval power is absolutely zero at the moment. We'll go for the land route then. A temple will be rushed in Tlaxcala next turn. 5 turns to expand size 2, 6 turns in total from now. More than enough to poop a foreign settler and send him on the spice tile.

The plan is showed in the image. Dark blue: the border after cultural expansion. Light blue dot: the place where the fort will be founded. Light blue: the border after the foundation of the fort. Red: troops movements. Yellow: the american source of saltpeter.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS002.jpg

Another thing to do is to end the works on the communication line. Two tiles still need to be roaded, a jungle and a mountain. After connecting Tlaxcala, peons will be sent there to address the problem. This web of road and cities will be quite useful in providing the necessary reinforcements from the core cities to the front line once war is declared. The drawback is that i need a quite large stationing force on the affected cities, in order to assure that this "domino effect" on troop movements doesn't stop somewhere in the middle.

Here's my army now. Even if "compared with America, i have a strong military", troops aren't enough for a quick and successful invasion of America, since the most part of the defender are actually needed in the communication line. And
surely they aren't enough to address the cultural flips problems that will show up for sure.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS003.jpg

Amazingly, the turn isn't over yet. I still have to move troops and give some production orders... and still decide about those legions that should be sent to Cleo... as a nice gift for her birthday, of course :D

sent 12 legions on a suicide route to america and 12 to Cleo. Then start preparing for Cavalry= tons of barracks/money/horseman. Then invade =D

What would the cost be to get the Iroquois in a war with America? This would cut off Abe's supply of horses (no knights and/or calvary eventually). Plus the chance of them actually taking a city (besides an island one) is very slim.

He has been at war with you since 810AD I believe and so maybe you could negotiate war against Abe as part of the peace treaty. It should alleviate his WW. You are still at war correct?

One other thing to note is that the screen says he only has two spices, but he obviously has three so he must be trading one (to Abe perhaps for horses?) By taking the spices by the cultural-city fort method, you will be breaking his trade agreement! :D

There is a way to deny horses to America. Get a MA with the Iroqs if you can afford it once you declare on America....

Hi U all! And thanks once again for posting and following the events.
First, some replies.

One other thing to note is that the screen says he only has two spices, but he obviously has three so he must be trading one (to Abe perhaps for horses?) By taking the spices by the cultural-city fort method, you will be breaking his trade agreement!
Good point! I did miss it. I checked for strategic resources but i forgot to do the same 007 work on luxuries. I'm going to check it for every luxury supplied to Abe.

@Shadow: i'm not sure if waiting for Cavalries to be available would be the best option. It depends on the time needed to master Military Tradition and some other stuff. I will postpone any decision until the cultural expansion on Tlaxcala.

@MOTH & Zelda's: yeah, getting the Iroquois into the conflict could be useful. I'm still at war with Bob, and probably a peace treaty would relieve him of some war weariness. However, this stalled war penalizes him, and this is good for me. Anyway i'm not sure about my ability to drag him in. We know very well about the unwillingness of the AS to wage war each other when there are active trade deals between them.

Next update coming soon, after my inquiry on Abe's luxuries. Stay tuned folks!

SIDE NOTE: Over 5000 views! :wow:

...One other thing to note is that the screen says he only has two spices, but he obviously has three so he must be trading one (to Abe perhaps for horses?) By taking the spices by the cultural-city fort method, you will be breaking his trade agreement! :D
No. If you take one he'll still have two spice, one of which is traded. Just going to war and pillaging a spice (while building that city on the other) should help against that trade too, though I think that the last spice would still be going to Bob, leaving none to Abe.

No. If you take one he'll still have two spice, one of which is traded. Just going to war and pillaging a spice (while building that city on the other) should help against that trade too, though I think that the last spice would still be going to Bob, leaving none to Abe.
Interesting point. The culture expansion, followed by the building of the fort, will grab 2 of the 3 spices available to Abe. I'm not sure if the last spice would still be given to Bob or not. Anyway, if Abe is left without spices it may face some unhappiness problems.

940AD - Roman 007 at work

Following the advice of some of my fellow advisors :D i'm going to investigate further on the resource supplies available to Abe.

Strategic: this issue has already been covered. Here's a brief summary: America has saltpeter, iron and horses. One single supply each. Saltpeter is auto-produced and is prone to a resource denial stragegy. Same story for iron, but the mine is far on the north, on an island, and right under a city. There's little to do about that. Horses: provided by the Iroquois. Having the trade treaty broken is the only way to deny this resource to Abe.

Luxuries: from the investigation on San Francisco, it came out that 5 different luxuries are available to America: furs (2), dyes (1), incense (1), spices (2), ivory (1). Some of them are probably acquired via trade deals, so let's have a chat with the Foreign Advisor... interesting news: at the moment, Abe trades only with the Bob of the Iroquois, and Bob trades only with Abe. Every missing resource on American soil must be provided by the Iroquois, and this mean that we can tell exactly what goods are traded between them.

Furs: 2 reported, 3 available. The third is shipped to Bob.
Dyes: 1 reported, but none on the american soil. They come from Bob.
Incense: 1 reported, none on the american soil. Bob at work once again.
Spices: 2 reported, 3 available. The third is sent to Bob.
Ivory: 1 reported, 1 available. No ivory traded then.

In brief:

Abe receives: horses, dyes and incense.
Abe gives: furs and spices. And probably a fair amount of gold per turn. This should explain its apparent lack of money.

This trade is quite important for both Bob and Abe. Breaking it would not only cut Abe's supply of horses, but it would wreak havoc on both the parties involved. 5 happy faces less for Abe are quite an issue.

Now the best course of action seems to be: war ASAP. Simultaneous strike on San Francisco and Atlanta and resource denial on the saltpeter tile. Once grabbed Atlanta, the trade deal would break. Abe would be left without the possibility of training further knights and muskets, and with a significant unhappiness problem.

Anyway, the crucial decision can wait until the cultural expansion of Tlaxcala take place. Six turns from now. We'll see... In the meantime, i still have to move some legions south. There's also another possible course of action, in case i grab Navigation or Magnetism quickly: an expedition on the southern island of the New World to attack the 2 small iroquois settlements of Oka and Kahnawake. Nothing better than a few more war weariness to please Bob of the Iroquois :D

In this shot: by popular demand, my score progression as reported by the histograph.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS004.jpg

...mmmmore to come!

Babylon kinda faded out there.... you kinda took their spot for no 1 it looks.

Actually, it looks like the Iroquois are #1 now, but I think that will change after the invasion of America.

5300 views o_0
Keep up the good work!
I would reccomend going for 2/3 galleous ant going for all those small islands and taking Atlanta.

Nice exponential graph you have there showing your score!!

This is getting more and more interesting. I'm only just starting to realise the importance of taking into consideration factors such as not only strategic resources, but also luxuries and War Weariness etc when planning a war. I guess I never really paid too much attention to that sort of stuff before..

Wow. After breaking the trade agreement b/n America and the Iriquois, Bob will be begging for peace, especially if you attack his island cities. Maybe he will give you Babylon to appease you (just kidding).

Kill those lousy Americans!! Wait, I'm an American... Ah to heck with it, kill them anyway!! All of them!! All hail the dominion of Rome.

Hi U all, fellow posters! (and lurkers, of course).

Yes, the Iroquois are #1 now, but they're backwards in tech. I'll have cavalries when it will be time to deal "seriously" with them, and probably they won't stand a chance to acquire Nationalism.

Oddly, it's the first time i see an underdog civ competing successfully against beasts like Babylon and Persia. I guess they've been blessed by the good start, the availability of resource and the mistakes of some rather incompetent opponents.

@Fjonis: nor did i, until a few months ago. I think going up in the difficulty levels force you to consider everything. When i played regent and monarch i didn't pay the right attention to those things. In deity, well, you see...

@Zelda's: thanx for the encouragement! Your enthusiastic support deserves a promise: i will put my best skills into sending Abe to oblivion as fast as i can :evil:

War weariness will be a big nuisance for both Abe and Bob. Now, if i manage to lure Abe into declaring to me, its problem will be even bigger, cause he'll miss the reverse war weariness bonus and go directly into amassing WW points. And killing the trade treaty will add even more unhappiness. A few towns into civil disorder and his ability to train reinforcements will be seriously hindered.

I've played a little more after the 'planning phase'. Cannot say anything except: you'll see something you really weren't expecting... humans are strange beasts, they can easily outclass every artificial thinking machine, no matter how sophisticated, but sometimes they do things that even a stupid AI would never do. Seeya later guyz!

940AD - A rectal-cranial inversion

Checking the military, i've noted a disturbing incongruence. I have no armies. Yes, no armies. But a few turns ago i popped a leader and build an army in... Texoco. Or at least i thought so... Let's check the game log... yes. This is what i wrote in 910AD:

The leader is sent to Texoco, where it builds an army. Two legions still outside Tenochtitlan are sent into the town. The rest of my army move towards Calixaca. Next turn they'll be marching into the town. 18 slave workers are sent with the troops moving from south to build a road through the jungle.

I reload the game in 910AD and see... nothing, but the battle still has to be fought, i'm at the start of the turn. Let's load 920AD. Ok. The leader is there. 930AD, the leader is vanished and there is no army.

So, what the heck?!? Wait... i saw something... Let's go back again.
920AD: Texoco is just starting a harbor.
930AD: The harbor has been built and the city has just started a temple.

Yes, i clicked the wrong button. Instead of building the army, i rushed the harbor.
Normally i reload the few times i make such mistakes. They are usually provoked by the haste or, say, the hand slip a little just before clicking and the cursor moves to the wrong icon. But usually i recognize immediately the error. This time, it took me 3 game turns to figure it out. So i guess i deserve it :blush:

Sometimes, every one of us finds itself in a situation where it feels like a complete idiot. I think it's my turn now.

[parallel task]
load scripts.txt - clickety clickety click - save it - load 940AD - replay the turn - end - take screenshot
[/parallel task]

Anyway, what this rectal-cranial inversion thing stand for? Simple:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS005.jpg

I think it describes the situation quite well... third serious mistake of the game. I really hope it's the last.
----------------------------------------
Next update coming soon. Stay tuned folks!

:eek: Oh god man! And it was a harbor to boot!
(at least it wasn't a worker!)

:crazyeye:

:lol: Oh man, you've just shot yourself in the foot! Thank Bob it wasn't C3C, at least. ;)

If it wasn't C3C, what's that palm tree in the desert? :hmm:

5,700 Views!
That Leader Loss was a great idea to attract people =D

If it wasn't C3C, what's that palm tree in the desert? :hmm:
Good spotting! It's vanilla, modded a little. Oasis, bonus resource in desert, +1 food and +1 gold. Btw, if you go to page 1, second image attached, you see something else that shouldn't be there... Apparently, no one noticed it, or didn't bother to ask about.

@Shadow: sincerely, i would have preferred a hundred views less and the leader still in my hands... can you imagine the curses? :mad:

@mrtn & k-a-bob: thanx for the simpathy guyz. Remember: be careful with your leaders... :(

Saturday morning. Yawn... just made breakfast. No work today, and this means lots of play time. In a hour or 2 i'll post another log. Seeya!

Spotted it - the canoe! It's in DyP, which I play. Crappy thing, though..

@Fjonis: didn't know it was in DyP. I just picked it from the unit library. Yes, it's crappy, but it can be built initially without prerequisites. 20 gold, 2 movements, 1 cargo, no attack and defense bonus. A spendable unit for early coastal exploration.
----------------------------------------

950AD - Paving the way

Second thinking - legions won't be moving south to Cleo. 8 legions, 5 of them elite. Why wasting them on such a worthless target? They will be useful in the invasion of America. Cleo, enjoy a little more freedom. But don't worry. I'll come for you.

As planned, a temple is hurried in Tlaxcala. 5 turns from now until cultural expansion. Calixaca will provide the settler for the fort.

Abe had discovered Physics, and it's time to rob him of some techs. Banking and Physics. Alex will be happy to offer Navigation. At the moment, money is not enough for a safe mission, but it will in a turn or 2.

After producing the last worker (a national!) Tehotihuacan is abandoned and resettled 1 tile NW under the somewhat more human name of Tihuaca. With this relocation, all cities involved in the communication line are in their definitive place. Slaves are working on the last 2 tiles still unconnected. The reinforcement grid is about to be completed.

In the meantime, new companies of knights and musketmen continue to be trained and sent north.

I hit enter, and nothing happens. I guess there won't be too much to report in the next few turns.

In 980AD, i finally gather enough money for a safe espionage mission on American technology. Banking and Physics are mastered. A trade with Alex awards me with Navigation. Good accomplishment. Now i can cross the ocean to bring some displeasure to Bob of the Iroquois, and i can trade with Babylon and Persia.

Alas, Babylon is so broken that Jason doesn't have a single cent to pay for anything. And Mario of the Persian has no harbors. Fool. I give Gunpowder to both of them, just to be nice.

But, more importantly, now i can safely park my caravel loaded with muskets in international waters without the need of crossing the American sea.

I call an audience with Bob of the Iroquois, just to peek at him. Hi Bob. We're at war. However, i see that you have all the luxuries i still miss. A good reason to knock at your door and kick your arse a little. Alas, you're half world away, but your time will come, be sure. In the meantime, i'll peek at your technology status. Wow, you progressed quite a bit. You miss Banking and Physics. And so you mastered Navigation too. This means that your lousy boats can cross the ocean and come to my coast to poop some scum. No problem, i'll get rid of them, and you'll have a little more WW.

Anyway, i need to crush you before you enter the industrial era and master Nationalism. Will i succeed? Only time will tell. For now, go boil your head. I'm leaving. What? Peace?!? HAHAHAHAHA!

In 990AD, diplomats inform me that Abe has just started Newton's University. He mastered Theory of Gravity then. America is progressing quickly. Too quickly. I must prevent Abe for discovering Nationalism, or my invasion would be much harder.

Thinking twice, i'd better offer peace to Bob. His harassing troops may be more than a nuisance once my armies start moving toward America, and i don't want to waste some of my units to deal with pesters. Hello, you rotten pile of crap. Would you like sign peace with Mighty Rome? Hmm, i see you have nothing worthily to extort. Ok, i'll take your lousy world maps. Peace, then. No, i don't want to smoke at your calumet. Judging from the effect it had on your mental health, i'd better avoid it. Bye bye, you moron, and keep smoking. I want you to be quite stoned when i come to claim your lands.

In 1000AD, cultural expansion in Tlaxcala take place. I send the aztec settler to build the fort. Forte Pizza is founded, and the 2nd spice tile is mine. Abe is without spices now. And 2 american units, a musketman and a longbow, are in my territory. Is he going to declare on me? I wouldn't be displeased.

War will be delayed a few turns more, until some extra reinforcements arrive. The communication grid is fully set up and loaded with backup troops. Every turn, 2 musket companies can travel all the territory and reach the front.

In the shot: the reinforcement grid. Unconnected means "cannot send slow troops to another node in 1 turn". Roads are everywhere.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS006.jpg

1010AD - Operation Jessie James

A caravel has just been built in Tlaxcala. 3 musket companies are loaded into it, then the boat sails off for its destination: the international waters west of the american saltpeter mines.

Meanwhile, new troops are trained and sent north. For the grid to work at max efficience, 2 stationing muskets must be available in each node. Next turn we'll have all the units necessary to fill every spot.

War must wait. Those damn caravel are slow! 4 turns before reaching the stationing point.

Being in peace with Bob now, i no longer benefit of the war happiness bonus. It could be a good idea to establish some trade deal with him. He has an excess of dyes and incense to trade. I can offer him wines and spices... Spices? WTF? Let's investigate a little.

The supply of American spices has been interrupted. Abe kept that lone tile for himself. But the rest of the trade deal between Abe and Bob is still intact. What happened? Probably this spice supply was a separate deal, and it's just expired... goodbye to the idea of ruining the trade between them :(

Bob is badly broken. I ask 1 gpt for wines, but he "would never accept such a deal". Wines and spices for dyes and his useless world map. Agreed. And unhappiness magically disappears.

In 1020, Abe has mastered Metallurgy. Now he's just 1 tech short of entering in the industrial age. Cannot wait too much before striking... but at the same time, waiting a few turns would allow me to spy for Metallurgy and Theory of Gravity. There's still 1 turn to wait for the caravel to reach its stationing point. After that, the crucial decision cannot be delayed further.

Greece has discovered Metallurgy too. A risky course of action would be: buy Theory of Gravity for a big sum of gpt, trade it with the Greeks to acquire Metallurgy, upgrade all the catapults, then lure Abe into declaring war. Alas, Abe wouldn't sell it for any reasonable price. My whole income per turn is not enough.

1030AD - The caravel reach its position. And Abe has entered the industrial era. He just mastered Magnetism... damn him! He's progressing fast, and now he's no more than 8/9 turns short of Nationalism. Two more turns for the necessary supporting musketmen to arrive at the front line, then the invasion will begin.


1050AD - The Artificial Stupidity is fooled again

I spy on Abe. Steal world map, immediately. My espionage attempt is exposed, and Abe is quite pissed. So pissed that:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS007.jpg

And that's exactly what i wanted. No war happiness for Abe. He will start immediately to collect positive WW points. And he will have a damn lot of them. My troops reach the border, split in two and invade the american soil headed for San Francisco and Atlanta. At the same time, the caravel reach the american coastline and... damn! A lousy longbow is occupying the saltpeter tile. The 3 musket companies disembark on a nearby hill. That vermin must be removed in some way.

Now THIS is a good story!

Excitement, intrigue, sudden reverses, triumphs, all funny and well told. You've earned every view, tR1cKy. I'm a very casual player but am learning a lot reading your reports and the other posts on this forum. Great stuff.

Meffy

Hi Meffy!
First, welcome to CivFanatics' Forums!
:beer:
And, of course, thank you for the enthusiastic support! Keep reading, more stuff is on the way. I'm fully into the invasion of America and, well... i won't anticipate what's going on, except for: nothing goes exactly as you wish it would go.

Seeya!

*cough* Nukes yet? *cough*

*cough* Nukes yet? *cough*
In Middle Ages?!?
--------------------------------------------

1060AD - The Scourge of America

In the interturn, two american longbows are sent to skirmish. The first kills one of the 3 muskets garrisoned on the hill, the 2nd dies against a legion on a hill. Bob has started Smith's trading company. He knows Economics then. We'll see if there's the possibility of a trade. But first, let's deal with San Francisco and Atlanta.

The catapults outside San Francisco are almost uneffective. A veteran musket is damaged, a population unit is killed, and that's all.

The 1st knight kills a reg musket. The 2nd and 3rd retreat redlined. The 4th redlines the vet musket but it's killed. The 4th and 5th are both redlined, but another reg musket is killed. The redlined veteran remains visible, and it should be the last defender in the city. An elite longbow charges and gets killed. The musket is promoted. An elite legion redlines the musket but is killed. The 2nd elite legion finally overcomes the defender and capture San Francisco.

On the northern front, catapults perform even worse. Only 1 pop unit killed and no damage done to the defenders. The good news is that no veteran muskets defend the city, only regulars. Knights charge. The 1st is redlined but tear off 1 hitpoint to a musket. The 2nd does exactly the same. The 3rd retreats redlined without doing any damage. The fourth finally kills a musket.

Two muskets at 2/3 are left in the city. Knights charge again. Another regular musket is killed. Only one left defending. It's time to toss in the 2 elite legionaries. The 1st redlines the musket but is killed. The 2nd wins and conquers Atlanta.

Casualties have been minimal. 1 knight, 1 longbow, 3 legions. America: 6 muskets loss. But 9 knights are damaged. They must retreat to Forte Pizza in order to heal quickly. No barracks in the 2 conquered towns, but it's irrelevant. Anyway, i could'n dare to park my knights there. The risk of cultural flip is too high.

The downside is that no leader has been created and no victorious unit has been promoted. With a leader i could have moved the capital to Atlanta. A huge hit for my actual core territory, but i would have secured a stronghold for the successive invasions. Considering the number of battles, the number of leader popped is quite low, not considering that i wasted one to rush a harbor... :suicide:

Ten mounted divisions are still to be moved. They can enter in the American territory south of New York and strike at the city next turn. A risky move, since they would have no artillery support. Then, 3 muskets and 3 longbows are wandering around the city, in the range to reach it during the interturn and fortify. But i move them anyway. If they regroup in New York, i can at least acquire control on the saltpeter tile. On the other hand, capturing New York would secure me the saltpeter tile anyway, so when those cities flip, the defender will be a pukeman rather than a musket.

The decision is made. Those 10 knight companies head for New York. 2 muskets and 1 longbow are sent in support. The 2 muskets garrisoned in the hill nearby are moved too, there's no reason to keep them there.

Finally, a legionary is sent to the mountain north of San Francisco to keep track of the movements of the american troops.

In this shot: my newly acquired land. The task force sent to New York is also visible.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS008.jpg


1070AD - Cursed by the evil gods

In the interturn, i'm badly screwed by the RNG gods.

The task force headed to New York suffers heavy skirmishes, in which everything couldn't go worse. First, a longbow attacks and kills a musket, with no hitpoints lost, and get promoted to elite. Another attack and halves the hp of another musket before being killed. Then, 2 muskets killed in a row by 2 longbows. The whole supporting division is obliterated.

The RNG gods aren't content yet. Another longbow attack a knight, which retreats redlined. Then, a stinking swordsman attacks and kill a knight without losing a single hitpoint. When the skirmish is over, the count of the casualties is frightening: 3 musket companies slaughtered, only one survived at half strength; one knight company completely annihilated and 2 badly damaged. And a nasty stack of american forces has placed itself exactly between my task force and the city of New York:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS009.jpg

It seems that Abe want to defend that city at all costs. Wait... ah, mistery solved. New York has a wonder, the Copernicus Observatory. It is known that the AS defend fiercely a city in which a wonder is built.

Things have suddenly turned against me. San Francisco and Atlanta are no more in the "grace period", so i must prepare myself for a cultural flip. Forces must be garrisoned outside, and that damned saltpeter supply zone needs to be neutralized ASAP. This means that i have to sacrifice another knight (he will surely be doomed by the american counterattack). I'll pick the damaged one. May Zeus be with you, o brave knights! The company move NW to the saltpeter and destroy completely the road on it.

Now, i need to decide what to do with that annoying stack. And what to do with the task force that, obviously, cannot strike at New York as planned. Attacking the stack would gift Abe with more war weariness, even if my forces fail. There are new mounted units coming and 9 of them, healing in Forte Pizza, will be at full power next turn. A substantial backup. And a difficult decision anyway...

Well, i have played boldly since now, why turning into a coward? Oh, Mighty Lord Zeus! Dark forces have layed waste on our valiant attackers! Soldiers that should have been crushed like insects were victorious over us and killed many of ours! Our enemies acted like puppets guided by invisible and infallible hands! Protect us, oh Lord! In your hands we put our humble lives! Lead us to victory!

Knights of the Crown! For the glory of our Undying Empire! For Rome! CHARGE!

It's an epic charge. Soldiers that have just been badly beaten raise the swords and go against the enemy as nothing has happened. When the battle is over, a mounted company is lost and not a single unit hasn't reported some sort of damage. But a large number of Abe's forces lay dead on the battlefield. It's obvious that my planned blitz attack on New York will be delayed, but i'm sure that the morale of the American population has suffered a severe hit.

Two american musket companies, one in my territory and one just outside the border, have been killed. My stacks of catapult are on position. Muskets and legions guard them. A knight company is just outside San Francisco and ready to retake the city in the case it revolts. Other catapults and defending units are outside Atlanta. More troops are on the way.

To the south, a few longbows and legions previously stationed in the southern cities has been gathered into Thermopylae. Next turn they will send to Cleo the final present from Rome: the annexation of her worthless city-state.

Still have to end the turn. What will happen? I'm pausing from the game for a while. Next update... well, later or tomorrow. Dunno. There's the Formula One championship in Melbourne tonight, and i won't miss it. Well, for the Aussies it's in the middle of the day, for us it's in the middle of the night. Exactly half world away...

Anyway... GO SCHUMI GO!!! FERRARI IS #1.

SIDE NOTE: Actually, we screwed up a lot in the qualifications... :mischief: but the race is another story...

lol. i like the foreign advisor.

HI! this is a really good story and its amazing how you dug yourself out of that lousy starting position, but one thing is really bugging me. you're playing as the Romans, yet you keep on praying to "Lord" Zeus. i know a bunch of mythology and hte Romans prayed to Jupiter. i don't want to make you look bad or anything, but if you have a reason for saying zeus instead of jupiter please tell me. also if it is just a mistake, it's no problem, just a little annoying. :sad:

@greekguy: first, thanks for the support! There were times when, in such a crappy startpoint i would have reloaded instantly. I tried to play this and... here we are. :D

About the name, thanks for pointing out that "glitch" that may have bugged someone else as well. Ok, i'll explain it. I know, the latin name is Jupiter and not Zeus. Why Zeus? For me, it may be silly but it simply sound "better" than Jupiter, that would be said like You-piter. Zeus sounds "like" a god and Jupiter so-so. So i used Zeus. And that's all.

The "scene" of the generals invoking the Lord Zeus and so it's an - in italian i would have said "esaltazione drammatica" - like drama but exaggerated, sometimes until ridicolous. I was screwed by the RNG so i came out with this "curse of the evil gods"... the same as when i lost a leader by hurrying a harbor and so called the part "a rectal-cranial inversion", modded the script.txt file and took a screenshot of a city with the words "The Emperor made a complete ass of himself" instead of "We love the Emperor day celebration is ended". :crazyeye:

See it as a way to laugh at our tremendous mistakes or strikes of bad luck. While playing a game and even in real life. :D

Greekguy who cares? honestly.....they are the same god. Let the man tell his story.

He is greek. Give him a break. Personally, as the dutch i would pray to the god named "God". Hes a good guy. :p

He is greek. Give him a break. Personally, as the dutch i would pray to the god named "God". Hes a good guy. :p
You're right. But this is a fictional situation. IMO, it's better to use fictional gods when necessary. Religious feelings are a serious matter and it's easy to get involved in the quarrels that may come out of using real religious names.

Let's say you decide to use "God" or "Allah". How long would you take before you (unwillingly) offend a catholic or a muslim? It would be like walking in a minefield. Then, what if your favourite character decides to toss a curse? At least in this story you can come out of it with a "Zeus boil'em" or something like that.

About your previous post, thanx! The advisor has always a ugly face when someone declares on you. But this time, America declaring on me was GREAT news, so i decided to give the advisor a more appropriate mood :D

EDIT: over 6.000!!!! :wow:

This is an incredibly engrossing log of your game Tricky, I hope you win. :king:

EDIT: over 6.000!!!!! :wow:Well, that number isn't "number people who have viewed the thread", it's "number of times the thread has been viewed". Sorry to burst your bubble. :p

I've never seen anyone be congratulatory about the number of views a thread has had before :lol:.

@The Chieftan: welcome to CivFanatics' Forums! And thanx for your support! Care to join for a lager?
:beer:

@Tomoyo: no problem, i know what a viewcount means. No bubble busted, and nothing to be sorry, then. ;)

@Gogf, actually, i've seen someone congratulating on Vanadorn for the impressive number of views of its "Pax Romana" story...

Now, for everyone, 2 cents about the viewcount. It's not so important. It's just a number telling me that someone still bothers to read the thread and nothing more. Something worth a single line of 4/5 words at the end of a post.

Say you start a game log. After the initial interest, people stop posting in it and the viewcount sits idle for a few days. It would be a signal that the argument is pretty much ignored, and you'd better spend your time in something else. On the other hand, if there are new posts in it and the viewcount is steadily increasing day by day, it means that there are at least some people interested in what you're writing, and this is a further motivation to go on with the log. Just it.

Be assured that i'm not the type of guy who feels smart, big or important because of 6000+ views in the thread he started. If someone had the impression that i was bragging about it, well, i'm sorry to have given the wrong impression. There's nothing to brag about, i'm just a bit pleased of that.
--------------------
SIDE NOTE: no viewcounts involved :) i'd only say that an update is imminent.

1080AD - Operation Jessie James, phase two

Nothing dramatic happened in the interturn. The pillaging knight was killed (but i was expecting this), and none of the conquered american cities flipped.

Anyway, the planned blitz on New York was a failure, and for the 2nd time in history roman attackers were repealed. But this time, there are positive things coming out of this failure. The mass attack on the american standing troops has surely delivered to Abe a nice bunch of WW points, and the damaged knights are now safe into the Roman soil. This turn they can be moved to Forte Pizza for a quick heal.

The knights previously garrisoned there are now at full strength. 2 more companies have just arrived from the training camps, and a unit garrisoned outside San Francisco is also available. A total of 12 mounted companies available for battle.

It is time to decide my next moves. The targets are obvious: New York, Philadelphia, then the rest of american territory. An ideal battle plan would be like this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS010.jpg

First, a combat settler would found a fort in the blue spot, claiming the land delimited by the solid blue border. This would allow my troops to move toward New York and Philadelphia in only 1 turn (light blue arrows). An ideal spot for a combined strike on both cities, considering that i would benefit of the artillery support.

This plan has only one drawback. It's too slow.

First, these towns nearby cannot provide a colonist in a reasonable time. The closest source would be Tlaxcala, size 2 city due to expand next turn. A settler could be rushed now and being popped just in time. But it would take 3 turns to reach the destination, another one to build the fort, and another one to move my troops in the attack position. 6 turns in total from now, in which any conquered city is at risk of cultural flip.

Second, America is a few turns away from either Military Tradition or Nationalism. Cavalries or, even worse, riflemen. Waiting 6 turns before striking again could mean giving Abe the necessary break to master one of these 2 technologies. The consequences are obvious.

In brief: the offensive must be QUICK. Abe must be deprived of its research potential. War weariness in America city must be sent skyrocketing. And these tasks must be fulfilled as quickly as possible.

What to do then? I think i'm left with only one option: to send another blitz force to New York. And if this means attacking without the support of the artillery, then so be it.

First, let's deal with the "easy" tasks. Slaves are sent working. Reinforcement troops are moved toward the front. The damaged knights are dispatched to Forte Pizza and fortified there. The settler in Calixaca is rushed, it will be useful anyway.

Now, let's count the troops available. 12 knight companies; 3 muskets in the range for being used as a support for the knights. At least 1 knight must remain in zone to deal with possible flips. The rest are sent north for New York, supported by 3 musket compaines.

Some troops are sent to deal with pesters. The "killer" longbowman on the saltpeter tile is sent to hell. The 2 longbows on the nearby mountain are given the same treatment after being redlined by the catapults. And finally, an audience with Cleo of the Egyptians is called.

Hello, sweetie. For years (or thousands of) the Romans have withnessed at your endless struggle to keep alive your distant, worthless city-state. Well, i cannot continue to sit idle in laziness while a cute and sexy chick like you is constrained to bear such a burden, That's why i'm sending some of my finest soldiers to relieve you from the pain. Too bad this means that we are in a state of war. Don't blame me, these are the rules of the game. However, it will be quick and painless. Just sit in your palace and wait for my incoming legions. We'll be enjoying a drink together in a day or two, in the newborn province of Pi-Ramesses.

I end the turn. A longbow kills mine, on the saltpeter tile, and a musket move to defend it. Another stinking longbow attack a legionary on a mountain. Pester killed, legion promoted. Another one kills a musket (again!) supporting the stack of knights. But the vermin is redlined. 2 other american muskets wander around, shouldn't they be supposed to defend the city? Cleo send a archer to welcome my troops. Legions cheer him :evil:

Abe has completed another wonder. Smith's trading company in Washington. It will be a fine addition to the Roman Kingdom. San Francisco and Atlanta haven't flipped yet.


1090AD - The battle of New York

12 mounted companies are ready to attack New York. 2 elites, 10 veterans. Many of them have already fought for the Roman Crown in the Battles of San Francisco and Atlanta.

An unknown number of musket companies defend the city. Strangely, there are no veterans. Abe should have some serious problems in delivering orders to his troops. While veteran muskets are left wandering in the open plains, New York is defended by regulars. Misteries of the AS.

The first charge kills a musket. Then a knight dies without doing any damage. Another one retreats redlined, but the musket is damaged. Other charges follows. Another musket is damaged but remains visible. Only 3 regular muskets defending, plus some other weaker units, maybe longbows. Another knight dies charging, the musket is redlined but is promoted. The following knight kills him. A veteran longbow shows up, and it takes 2 knights to kill it. 2 muskets at 1/4 remains, and are both killed by the 2 following charges. New York is captured.

Catapults move north of Atlanta. It's necessary to kill another musket in order to ensure safe communications with the roman land. Disposing of the remaining pester NE of Atlanta would also be a good idea. Catapults redlines, foot unit kills. Business as usual.

In the southern scenario, roman troops approach Pi-Ramesses. Next turn, they'll be ready to capture the town.

I end the turn, and finally one of my muskets manage to defend against a longbowman! An american galleon has dropped a longbow and a musket on the open plains north of New York, which has weak defences at the moment. I haven't seen a single american knight yet. Only muskets and longbows. Aren't they receiving horses from the Iroquois? Probably their production potential is seriously crippled and they're choosing to build some cheaper units... who knows? A look at the histograph reveal a dramatic drop in the American score, too much even for a nation which has lost 1/3 of their cities. War weariness is hitting Abe dramatically, or at least it seems so. Good news for me.

In the shot: The northern scenario in 1090AD, just after the conquest of New York.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS011.jpg

1100AD - Cleopatra's forced retirement

Roman legions and longbows knock at the door of Pi-Ramesses, but are faced by a surprising resistance of the Egyptian forces. Those scumbags fight until death. 2 roman companies are lost and 3 badly damaged. Too much for 1 veteran spear and 2 regulars. Anyway, the last remnant of the Egyptian nation is now a province of the Roman Kingdom, and finally a leader has been created. The surviving soldiers are garrisoned into the town. The leader head north at full speed.

To the northern front, things are pretty straightforward now. No more time for scientific battle plans. No more times for strategic pauses between offensives. The leitmotif is only one: grab the rest of the American land as soon as possible. Cultural flip is a risk too high, and time cannot be wasted. Only the complete annexation of the United States of America will get rid of the cultural pressure problem.

The next target is Philadelphia. After the battle of New York, many mounted units need to be healed. They are sent south, to the safety of the military structures located in Forte Pizza. But 8 knight companies have just regained full strength and are ready to be sent back to the frontline. They are garrisoned on the plains outside Atlanta and put in hold for further orders.

Some troops are placed outside New York, ready to recapture the city in case of a revolt. 2 knights, 2 muskets, 1 longbow and 6 catapults. More than enough to withstand a skirmish. The catapults redline a wandering musket, a knight kill him. 2 elite knights are moved outside New York to join the blitz team. Rather than venturing directly in the American land, the blitz army is parked outside New York with the rest of the other troops, protected by 2 musket companies. 11 mounted units will be available for the blitz if New York stays loyal.

Reinforcements are on the way and slaves are re-deployed. Nothing else to do but end the turn and pray the RNG gods to be merciful...


1110AD - Dire news from the front

Once again, no town revolted, but New York was almost recaptured by the filthy americans. Frigates bombarding the city had a lucky strike: harbor destroyed and musket company damaged at half. A longbow attacks and is killed, the musketman is redlined but promoted elite. The remaining american musketman attacks, manage to redline the roman defender but is killed at least. New York is safe, and still in my hands.

Troops are re-deployed. The damaged musket in New York is sent to San Francisco where it will help in quelling the resistors. Fresh troops are stationed outside New York and Atlanta, ready to recapture the city. The "combat settler" is arrived (late), but will found a fort anyway, in which a barracks will be rushed ASAP. This way i'll have a location where to heal quickly wounded troops (Forte Pizza is now a little too distant). New York has functional barrack but healing troops there is too risky.

The leader is still struggling to arrive north as fast as he can. And 12 mounted companies are sent toward Philadelphia. They reach the open plains just outside the city. Next turn they'll strike. The companies are unprotected, thus prone to American skirmishes. I hope they won't hit too hard.

The turn ends... and nothing terrific happens. No city has revolted. The quelling in San Francisco proceed slowly. American boats continue to bombard the coast of New York. Abe, seriously, what's your problem? I'm swallowing your country as fast as a lightning and you find no better option than bombarding tiles with Frigates?. Oh, another boat has dropped some units on the just pillaged tile, north of New York. 2 muskets, 1 longbow, 1 archer. Still no sign of knights.

In the New World, Bob of the Iroquois had declared on Babylon and captured the city of Uruk. Now only the city Babylon is left, plus the small settlement of Niniveh south of the persian capital, Antioch. Bob has finally decided to annex what remains of the Babylonian core territory.

Now someone might start wondering... what are these "dire news" he's babbling about? Plain and simple, Philadelphia. Last turn, the visible defender was a veteran musketman. Now this musket has just turned into a rifleman.

America has just discovered Nationalism. Exactly what i didn't want to happen.

Seeing in perspective, things are even worse than what they may look like at a first glance. With nationalism, Abe can mobilize its population and draft extra units to defend their cities. I'm not worried by mobilization, it's the draft ability that bugs me. A failed attack would be more costly now, since in the 2nd attack i would almost certainly face an extra drafted rifleman. And if a city flips, it won't have one worthless pukeman to defend it, but 2 riflemen. Troops garrisoned outside cities must be reinforced or they'll risk to fail to recapture a flipped city. And 12 knights outside Philadelphia are no more a victory guarantee.

Abe. You bastard. You really don't want to make it easy, don't you?

In the shot: Roman assaulting troops have just made a "pleasant" discovery...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS012.jpg

Egypt fought hard, but It gave you a lader ^_^...lol
Are you gonna wait for cossacs to fill the army?

Two things on rifles:
1) A Knight army will really help here. You bombard all you can, send in the army first to weaken further, then clean up with your single troops. Take city. Fortify the army 2-3 turns and it will rest as well getting to full strength before a flip may happen. Meanwhile you move everyone forward then move your army up and strike again. Rinse and repeat.

2) Get to *cannons* ASAP if you haven't already. Upgrade those cats to cannons and your bombard success on the cities will greatly increase as well as the damage you can give. Might be a little too late but you do have a barracks at the front which would make for quick upgrade.

@Shadow: yes, probably the best option is to wait until cavalries then fill the army. Knights are obsolete units now.

EDIT: crosspost with bonscott (sometimes it happens). I'll reply you in a new post quite soon.
------------------------------------------------------------------

1120AD - Riding toward death with a smile

The leader arrives to Delphi where it finally builds an army. Yes, this time is really an army, i've checked carefully :)

The combat settler build its fort anyway. A handy healing station for wounded troops, even more useful now. The territory that Forte Diavolo has claimed will make possible for extra mounted units parked outside New York to come in support of the Philadelphia task force, if necessary.

The knight divisions are given the order to charge. Much blood will flow today.

The 1st unit kills a veteran rifle. Damaged but promoted. A lucky strike isn't a bad thing.

Another veteran rifle show up. This time 3 units are needed to dispose of it. The 1st is killed with no damage inflicted, the 2nd one is redlined, the 3rd wins and is promoted elite. Now a regular rifleman is visible.

A knight attack and dies. The rifle is redlined but promoted. Another regular rifle is visible, the 4th since now. Another knight attacks and dies, but the defender is redlined. This time the previously wounded unit show up. A veteran at 2/4. Good news for me.

Time to bring the elite units on the fight. The first kills the wounded rifle, exposing a redlined regular one. The second dies against the defender, who gets promoted veteran at 2/4. A third elite charges and wins, at least. Philadelphia is captured. Magellan's Voyage is in my hands now.

Casualties: 4 mounted units killed, 5 wounded, 3 still at full strength. 2 veteran riflemen and 2 regular were defending Philadelphia. These rifle had a defense value of 10.5, 12 if fortified. They fell too easily. I guess i've been blessed by some RNG whims... but i don't feel easy. When such things happens, usually an unfavourable event promptly show up to balance things.

The barracks in Forte Diavolo are rushed in this very same turn. 80 golds for the 1st 10 shields and 40 for the remaining 10. A costly option, but necessary. Wounded knights retreat in the safety of the fort, where they'll be healed 2 turns from now. Troops controlling New York are moved NE of the city, where they can bombard pesters and attack them without losing control on the city. Another musketman is sent in support to deal with potential skirmishers. Catapults deliver their blows, and 2 muskets are weakened. A longbow attack but is killed. The 3 knight companies charge, and manage to kill 2 muskets and 1 longbow. Two knight are damaged. The third is promoted elite at full hitpoints.

In Forte Pizza, 5 mounted units have healed. They are dispatched to Forte Diavolo where they may be useful in a lot of possible unpleasant situations.

Nothing else to report, apart from the usual movements of slaves and reinforcing troops. I end the turn, hoping that the RNG gods, won't screw me too much...

In the shot: the American front as today. Note the strategic importance of Forte Diavolo. From there, massive troops can be sent to recapture New York, Philadelphia and Atlanta should those cities flip back to Abe.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS013.jpg

When will you have calvary? Canons and calvary will likely be necessary to finish sweeping through America. Did Abe leave any improvements in the cities you captured, ie marketplaces, banks, courthouses, etc? It'll make those cities much more productive if you decided to rush your palace in one of them to decrease the risk of flipping. You'll need the gold and production to continue reinforcing your troops and keeping up in tech.

Hi U all!

First, the promised reply to bonscott: your observation about barracks on the front is quite good. I have barracks in New York, but cannot use them, the risk of flip is too high. And i don't have 2-3 turns. The grace period is only 1 turn, after what the city may flip. That's why i've founded a fort (Forte Diavolo) in which a barracks has been rushed in the very same turn. Not only it provides a safe place for a quick heal, but its position allow troops to be sent in any city at risk of flip.

Now, a few words about the situation. No cannons and no cavalry at the moment. I don't know Metallurgy yet. I count on having it next turn, when the current agreement with Greece expires. I count on Alex to award me with Metallurgy in return of some resources and some gold per turn. Of course, catapults will be upgraded ASAP.

Zelda's suggest me to use a productive city to move my capital. Yes, New York would be perfect for this purpose. Moreover, by moving my capital there i would also solve almost all my cultural pressure problems. But it's a risky business. The relocation would cause a significant drop in the outcome of my current core territory (around Athens). If a second leader isn't created i cannot move my capital back to Athens. Tough decision.

About the strategy to follow from now, two main options are possible. The first is: wait for metallurgy, upgrade the catapults, move a stack of knights, cannon and muskets and attack the city with the support of artillery. A minimum of 2 turns for the upgrade, 4 for the capture of Chicago and 2 more for Washington.

The next is to renounce to the support of artillery and go directly with knights. Casualties would be higher, but Washington could be captured in 2 turns and Chicago in 3, assuming there are enough troops for an immediate 2nd attack.

Speed vs. firepower+defense.

Every turn my conquered cities are prone to flipping. This would suggest a fast attack. But the probability of a failure is higher. Another tough decision.

I suggest this strat as I've used it a lot:

I'd go fast and take as much as you can. Why? Obviously the quicker you can knock out the Americans the better. Heavy causulties are fine at this point. Again why for those playing and learning along at home? Because even if every single knight is lost, if you can take every American city you'll have the whole continent to yourself and won't have a security issue for a while. Thus you can take your time rebuilding your military, this time directly with Cavs. They key for those reading is that even though your military might suffer a huge blow it's ok since you'll secure your homeland and won't have to worry about invasions for a while.

In the meantime during your fast push, work on plan B with upgrades to cannon and move them forward as quickly as possible with musket escort. Most likely even with a fast plan you'll have at least the last American city or perhaps 2 that you can use the cannon's on.

Personally I would bother with moving your palace. Not really worth it at this point. If you have enough cities after taking the last remaining American ones you should be able to build the Forbidden Palace and can put that in New York or more likely Washington since it's centraly located in the north. Good spot for it.

Good strategy bonscott, i was thinking on something likely. Go fast, but prepare for an eventual attack with artillery support. Of course i'll try to get metallurgy from the greeks and upgrade my catapults ASAP. Even if they won't be used to obliterate the americans, they'll come handy for recapturing a flipped city.

About the FP, well, it's been built over a millennium ago, in Thebes. My capital was Roma and i was suffering some corruption penalty, so i used my first leader to rush the FP in Thebes. Not good in the long run, but essential in short term. I had Thebes instantly reaching 10 shield per turn, thus producing an archer in 2 turns or a legion in 3.

I've used the different opinions on the stragegy to be followed now to write some "creative" stuff. A dissertation on strategy made in an unusual way. I'll post it tonight. Seeya guyz!

Can't wait to see what's coming!

Hi, first post here. I've been reading this thread for several days now. It's been very...mesmerizing. Not only is the story a good one, but there are lessons here for newbies, and regulars alike.

I look forward to the next update.

Joe

EDIT: The date was wrong. It's 1130 not 1120. Corrected
----------------------------------------------
@Rebeljoe: welcome to CivFanatics' Forums!
:beer:
And thank you very much for appreciating this game log. More interesting stuff in on the way, this time i've gone a little "off style". Keep reading!

@Eastian: ... and here you are! Not a battle, but the preliminary plans. Don't worry, the carnage is coming soon.

------------------------------------------------------------------
1130AD - Operation Jessie James, phase three

Ave, Caesar!
Today was a great day for our valiant mounted forces. A great victory was earned at Philadelphia. However, i cannot refrain from expressing my sincere concerns about the new firearms possessed by the filthy Americans. Those weapons are stronger and more precise that ours and allow a skilled marksman to kill several charging enemies before being overwhelmed. Today's victory may trick us into a sense of false security, and this would be disastrous. An apparently easy victory as ours was possible only because our enemies were as strong in firepower as they were weak in courage. And we were lucky. Lots of things were at high risk of going bad, but despite the odds, everything worked perfectly. We must be careful from now.

I suggest to delay our further advance a little. If the Crown is successful in its negotiation with Alex of Greece we would have in a few time the ability to upgrade our catapults in something more effective to weaken the defenses of Washington and Chicago. These new artillery units may offer a significant bonus in firepower to our mounted units.
...

Ave, Caesar!
Our divisions stationing in Forte Diavolo are almost totally healed. Many of us has been stunned by the awesome efficience showed by this newfound structure. Six mounted units are ready to be led in battle again. If we combine this force with the veterans of Philadelphia we'll have another blitz force strong enough to venture into enemy territory. I suggest to amass all the available units and send them toward Washington as soon as possible.

Every moment that the American govern is still active and functional we are a risk of revolt in the occupied territory. I am particulary worried by the situation in New York and Philadelphia. Intruders have already crossed the border unnoticed. They are suspected to infiltrate into the population and exasperate the anger of American citizens against us. In all the conquered american cities the majority of the population is still resisting, a situation that won't be solved anytime soon, unless we annex quickly all the American territory.
...

"Counselor. The decision is difficult to take. We could wait for better support troops or we could strike as fast as we can in Washington and Chicago. I am assuming that both of us understand very well the pros and cons of both option. We are called to choose one of the two."

"Caesar, i've thought about the situation the whole day, and it's quite complicated. First, we should expect stronger defenses in Washington. No less than 5 of those rifle companies reported from our communications from the front. They are bothersome."

"Are you sure of that? Those 'new firearms' may be only a bluff. General Gaius has overcomed them almost too easily."

"No, they aren't. Our master of arms were been able to put the hands on some of these 'rifles'. Well, they are quite respectful. Powerful and precise. A top quality firearm. So evoluted that our tecnology prevent us from using them in battle."

"How is it possible?"

"First, they cannot be replicated. There are some parts that we aren't able to produce with our current metallurgy knowledge. Second, the ammunition. Too costly and complicated for mass production at the moment. A musket with nothing to shot with is worthless. And third, our musketmen would need to be trained again in the use of those new firearms, a slow process, since it would be the first time that such a course would take place..."

"Ok. Enough of that. You have explained well why those rifles cannot be used in combat by our troops. So what? You still have to address my doubts about the effective power of those new firearms. Actually, you are strenghtening them. American may be facing the same troubles as us. The victory of Philadelphia could be seen as a proof."

"Caesar, don't count on that twice. Those weapons had just been delivered and those defending musketmen were not only cowards but also unexperienced. Next time we'll meet them in battle they won't be so easy to kill."

"You have no proof on that. Only speculations."

"Yes. Speculations of a Military Advisor that hasn't made a single mistake since he's in charge."

"Ok, good point. But don't forget that everyone make mistakes sometimes. I did some. Your predecessors did. You can be in error as well. You're human after all."

"This time i'm not mistaken, Caesar. I cannot be. Trust me. As you did since today."

"Then, what are you suggesting?"

"Caesar, i've served the Crown for long time, and i've learned to interpret the will of our King, even when he actually says nothing. You have already decided for the 'fast option', aren't you?"

"Perhaps, Counselor. Perhaps. I've already changed my mind in past times. Nothing is decided by now. Let's say that i reserve my definitive decision once you've expressed in full your opinion about that matter. And you still have to do it. I'm a busy man, you know. I cannot stick in this conversation forever. Now, PLEASE. Express your opinion without regrets. Fully. And clearly. Now."

The military advisor took a deep breath.

"Ok. In my opinion, a fast attack on Washington and Chicago is the best course of action..."

"WHAT! You argued with me for so long only to say that you AGREE with my point of view?!?"

"Caesar, be patient. The best course of action, but not now. Our divisions are not enough to guarantee us a victory. And a failed attack would be disastrous. Then, we must do nothing for now. Just sit idle and wait for reinforcements. Next season our troops will be enough, but since then we need to have our forces gathered in our key points and nothing more. Once we have the necessary numbers, we can send our cavalry killing. Care to see my proposed battle plan?"

"Of course."

The most powerful man in the Roman Kingdom stayed silent while the 2nd most powerful man unwrapped a big map of the American territory, almost filled with arrows, figures and scribble.

"We'll have our cavalry crossing the border here. They'll advance in American territory following this path, and gather here. Well, this is the dangerous part of the plan. The gathering point is on open terrain, and they will be vulnerable to preemptive attacks by the Americans, but if we want to hit them as fast as possible it's unavoidable. The next move will be a first strike on Washington, just to test their defenses. Then, depending on the situation, we can concentrate our attack on Washington or send part of our cavalry to deal with Chicago."

"Do you think we will be able to strike at the two cities in the same time?"

"Honestly, no."

"Then, our units will be compelled to gather at Washington and regain strength before attacking Chicago."

"It's not said. We should have enough reinforcements arriving in time to strike at Chicago without waiting for our troops deployed in Washington to heal completely."

"Should?"

"Exactly. Should. We are not certain. New York and Philadelphia are two barrels of black powder ready to explode. If those cities revolt, some of our units will be necessary to recapture them, unless we want our communication lines to be broken when we need them more."

"Good, Counselor. A plan with some guts. Risks are great but necessary if we want to strike fast. Now, leave me alone with my burden. I must decide of the destiny of thousands of fellow Roman soldiers, and whatever will be my choice, it will be painful."

"As your wish, Caesar."

The 54th Caesar of the Roman Kingdom sat on its throne. It was cold, and uncomfortable. Too many times the ruler of Rome would have preferred to sit on something else. But it was unavoidable. Every man and woman in the Kingdom had to fulfill their tasks, king included. Stressed, he choosed to dedicate himself of some less burdening tasks. An american mounted company dare to venture into our occupied territory. No need to worry, our generals will dispose of them. The city of Tenochtitlan was emptied at last, and a new city was ready to be founded. Settlers were only awaiting for the order to come from Athens. The king took a pen and paper foil, and scribbled the order on it.

"Messenger!" - he called. Now, if only things could be always so easy...

In the shot: the battle plan for Washington and Chicago.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS014.jpg

akkkkk! what did you do THAT for?!? this story was going well until now.....
maybe it is just me, but I cannot read those "stories and tales" posts because of all the 'fictional' elements in them. I thought the way you were doing it before was far more entertaining than ANY post I have attempted to sit through in the stories and tales forum. if you stick with what you were doing, maybe some others will catch on....

"Tell the knights to ride like there is no tomorrow...unfortunately, for many of them there won't be..."

"This battle will be for the greater good of Rome. Their children and their children's children will live better lives for the sacrifices made on this battlefield."

"The American scum do nothing but polute our culture with vile images and practices. The longer we wait, the more their culture will eat into our way of life. They infect us daily and it cannot go on! We must rid this land -that is rightly ours- of these vermin. May Zues/Jupiter prepare our way!"

akkkkk! what did you do THAT for?!? this story was going well until now.....
Why so negative about that? Don't you like some variation in the general trend of things? Anyway, don't worry. It's just one chapter of this log written that way. I'm not turning it into a fictional story. Next events will be told in the usual style.

Note that the chapter is not 'pure fiction'. What i have done is taking the elements worth reporting now and turn them into a small 'story in the story'. You see the different opinions about the best way to lead the attack (the conflicting reports), the concerns in taking a difficult decision (the dialogue between the Caesar and the Counselor), and a possible battle plan for the capture of New York and Chicago.

I'd like to thank Vanadorn for the inspiration. Without reading its magnificent Pax Romana story, i would never have thought about writing a chapter like this.

I thought the "holy crap" caption was somewhat amusing to say the least. Many a time have I marched into a city with a stack of cav's (thinking it's going to be a walkover), only to find the AI now has Infantry and tanks garrisoned within the city. :D

@BlackJAC: don't you just love the AI when it awards you with such a wonderful surprise? :gripe:

---------------------------------------------

1140AD - The die is cast

Nothing happened in the interturn. Once again, no city revolted. But the quelling process of insurgent citizen proceeds slowly. Too slowly. Bob has captured the small settlement of Niniveh, and now only Babylon remains loyal to Jason. The fate of this inept ruler seems obvious.

The agreement with Alex of Greece has just expired, and it's time to renew it. I offered him 20 turns of peace, iron, horses and 50 gpt in return of Chemistry. My goal now is to achieve Metallurgy. Let's go to talk with that worthless "president". Hello, you smelly bag of puke. How you doing in that pitiful rock in the middle of nowhere? Whatever, i couldn't care less. I was asking just to be nice. Ok, would you like to renegotiate our treaty? No? Whatever, we'll renew it anyway, you don't want to be visited by some roman legions, don't you? Ah, i see you are more reasonable now. Moron.

After all, Alex turns to be a good guy. He handed over Metallurgy for peace, iron, horses, saltpeter and 42 gold per turn. Not a bad deal. Now catapults can be upgraded to cannons. Alas, i cannot upgrade them in a single shot. I need some artillery parked outside Philadelphia and New York. So i'm sending them in Forte Diavolo in 2 separate shots. Six are upgraded now, the remaining 9 will have to wait next turn.

Another knight has just been pooped on the pillaged wheat tile north of New York. The damaged archer that was stationed there has moved back into American territory, exactly in my planned attack route! Did those vermins become telepathics? However, i weaken it with a catapult, just to be sure. The remaining shots are delivered to the knight unit. 2 hp removed, enough to have him retreat.

The town of Nuova Roma has just been founded on the territory of the former Tenochtitlan. An aztec slave is sent inside. Next turn some greek and egyptian people will follow. Slaves are redeployed as usual.

A total of 17 mounted companies are available for the planned attack. A veteran cross the border, attacks that rotten archer, kills him with no damage and is promoted elite. The others follow along. An awesome force of 10 elite companies and 7 veterans is ready to strike at Washington and, maybe, Chicago. Other units will be in range next turn. This is the moment in which i'm more exposed to a flip, since all my knight units, except for 3, have been sent attacking and cannot go back to recapture a flipped city. One turn more of grace is all i need... will i be blessed once again by the RNG Gods?

I end the turn...

--------------------------

In the shot: the mood of the Roman troops engaged in the American front.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS015.jpg

1150AD - The good, the bad, the ugly

No town has flipped, but some american vermins have been sent harassing my troops. One knight kills one of mine without losing a single hitpoint, and is promoted elite. A rifleman attacks and redlines a second knight, but is killed. Two units less for me, and a rifle less defending Washington.

Anyway, the population of Washington has dropped from 12 to 11. Why? Rampant unhappiness or drafted rifleman? I must consider the worst option. With 2 attackers less and 1 defender more, although conscript, my chances of failure would be even higher.

Let's do some math. Presuming no less than 5 veteran rifles, and probably 1 conscript, it will be 22 hp for the scumbags. On my side, 8 elites and 7 veterans. 68 hitpoints. They were 78 before the skirmish. Attack, 4. Defense: 10,5-12. The dreaded words "failed attack" are sounding in my mind.

Chicago is size 12. No drafted units then. Abe thinks that i would attack in Washington. Should it mean that Chigago is less defended? From the gathering point, i can attack both cities. If defenses in Chicago are weaker, say 3 rifles, the hp count would be 68-12. A good chance to conquer it.

I send my troops to Chicago.

Cannons. 2 units. They fire and hits. The first knight is killed and the 2nd retreats redlined, while the defender stays undamaged. The 3rd retreats redlined, but finally tear off 1 hitpoint from the rifle. Two other knights retreat at 1/4, and both of them tear off 1 hp from a veteran rifle. The wounded rifleman remain visible.

3 riflemen at 3/4 hitpoint. Bingo!

Another attack. Knight killed, american vermin promoted to elite. The last veteran attack, manage to reduce that damn vermin at 2/5 but it's killed. The elites go in. Rifle redlined at 1/4, knight killed. Rifle weakened at 2/4, knight killed. They should have an higher retreat chance, damn'em!

The rifle at 2/4 is still visible. Another charge, and it's killed. The rifle at 2/5 appears and is killed. A veteran knight appears! 4 elites at full hitpoint are still to be used in the attack. A charge, and the knight is killed. The redlined rifle must be the last one. Another charge, and the last defender in Chicago is sent to hell. City captured, a frigate and a galleon sunk, but the harbor has been destroyed. No contact with the other cities then. And no barracks. Healing will be slow. Casualties: 5 knights killed, 4 redlined, 6 less damaged and only 2 at full strength. We'll need reinforcements, and the artillery. The 6 upgraded cannons are sent north, escorted by 2 muskets. Two more have been captured in Chicago. More knights are on the way.

A combat settler would be useful, and i was hoping to carve it from San Francisco, but those scumbags refuse to be sedated. I rush it in Forte Pizza (size 3 next turn). But it won't be in the combat zone before 3 turns.

It's been a pyrrhic victory for Rome. 5 divisions lost are a damn lot. No immediate attack on Washington. Another city at risk of revolt. But choosing Washington would have meant almost certainly a failure.

I've raised again the WW points of Abe. If i bring America on a revolution, those vermins could not build reinforcements for 2-3 turns. We are both struggling in this fight. Abe is almost doomed, but the cost of the final victory is yet to be defined. It could be greater than expected.

The two cannons bombard the American frigates harassing the city. 2 good shots, and 2 lousy boats damaged. I hit enter. The bastard knight fortified on the mountain SW of Washington charges my stack and kills a elite. Then it retreats damaged in Washington.

In the New World, Bob of the Iroquois has conquered Babylon. The last city of the ex Babylonian Republic is fallend in the hand of the Iroquois. Bye bye Jason. You've been so dumb that you deserved it.

The good news are that, once again, no conquered city has revolted.

--------------------------

In the picture: a full screenshot of the northern front after the end of the turn. Only 3 core cities are still loyal to Abe. But America can still bite.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS016.jpg

shouldn't this go in the story and tales forum by now?

shouldn't this go in the story and tales forum by now?
Haha! True, I remember when this thread was new! :lol:

Looks like you've done really well there tricky! :hatsoff: What skill level are you playing on BTW? :confused:

How did Philly lose a pop point between the last two screen shots? In 1140, it shows 11 population and growing in 18 turns. In 1150, it shows a 10 population and growing in 16 turns.

Was Philly no longer in resistance such that you were able to pop rush something? I thought even San Fran was still in resistance.

Hi! Glad to see some new people posting here!
:beer:
Now some replies:

@Communisto: yeah, i think it's time. This thread started as something different, then turned into a game log. At first time, i was reluctant to ask this thread to be moved. I wasn't sure at all if i could win this game and, well, making its debut in the S&T zone with a loss... ahem... :blush:
Once i'll wipe out America, i'll ask the mods if they can move the thread.

@Admiral8Q: hehe thanks! The difficult level is Deity. It's the vanilla civ3, 1.29f. Modded, but not made easier. I didn't expected to do so well, it's only my 6th deity game so far.

@BlackBetsy: Good spotting! It's something i forgot to mention in the game log. There are some pesky frigates around Philadelphia and New York. They are bombarding the cities, and in the last interturn they manage to kill 1 pop unit in Philadelphia. All the american cities are still in resistance.

Tonight i should post another log. Ciao ciao!

Perhaps you should send someone to pillage the ivory. They only have one of those while they have 3 furs so the loss of ivory would definitely make them unhappy.

Is that your caravel on the bottom left corner? Isn't it dangerous out there with all of America's frigates?

Nicely written, enjoyable to read and well played so far... :goodjob:

Quick note tR1cKy,

If you leave America on an island- still watch for culture flips. I had Washington flip (at peace) when their only city was on an island about 30 tiles away! And Washington wasn't even on the coast!

Great Game log, I've been following it more or less from when it started and I, for one, like the variation in the logs, made (i.e. where it was a bit more "story-like") a bit of variation didn't hurt anyone. However I would like to made the point (I'm quite picky like this) That there have been several references of praying to Zeus. I would like to point out that Romans did not worship Zeus, but worshipped the Roman equivilant of Jupiter. And, surely since a lot of war is going on, a prayer to Mars the god of war, could not go amiss?

Well that's all I have to comment on, a bit of variety and which gods should be prayed to, sad isn't it?

Hi U all, fellow posters! (and lurkers, of course)

@Jopedamus: thanx! (what else can i say?)

@Zelda's: yes, it's the only ivory source. I thought about negating it, and rejected the idea at first, because the knight would have been surely killed. But now it wouldn't be bad to send an already redlined knight to negate this resource. 2 happy people less could mean some cities rioting at this point. And the suicide knight would divert american troops from attacking my stack.

@Peck: why sad? any comment is appreciated. First, thanks for the positive comments! About Zeus, well i know that Jupiter would be more accurate. To be precise, Zeus and Jupiter are the same god, the first being the greek name and the other being its latin equivalent. I used Zeus because 1) it's more well known (the statue of Zeus...) and 2) in my opinion, the name sounds more "god-like" than Jupiter... a matter of personal taste and no more. About Mars, i've refrained from using other gods to reflect the fact that Rome became monotheistic almost a millennium ago (in the game time, of course!)

@k-a-bob: you've been badly screwed by the whims of the RNG gods!!! I can imagine the curses... :D Yes, there's that problem. And i need to leave America with at least 1 city to extort techs from it. There's a colony half world away, i think i'm safe enough. Anyway, i'll purge the conquered towns from the indigenous population (they'll be fine slaves) and replace them with nationals. This will lower the flip chance almost to zero... perhaps...

---------
psssst... next update coming soon!

@Zelda's: yes, it's the only ivory source. I thought about negating it, and rejected the idea at first, because the knight would have been surely killed. But now it wouldn't be bad to send an already redlined knight to negate this resource. 2 happy people less could mean some cities rioting at this point. And the suicide knight would divert american troops from attacking my stack.


Actually, you'd have to send a substantial force to pillage the ivory. A knight could not reach the ivory and pillage it in the same turn - it is 2 movement points away. It would have to sit there, survive a counterattack, and then pillage. Sending a redlined unit would just mean you would have one fewer unit, unless the Artificial Stupidity didn't counterattack. A cavalry unit could do it, though, if you got MT.

@k-a-bob: you've been badly screwed by the whims of the RNG gods!!! I can imagine the curses... :D Yes, there's that problem. And i need to leave America with at least 1 city to extort techs from it. There's a colony half world away, i think i'm safe enough. Anyway, i'll purge the conquered towns from the indigenous population (they'll be fine slaves) and replace them with nationals. This will lower the flip chance almost to zero... perhaps...


I'll have to put up a screenshot of the location of Miami to Washington. :crazyeye:
I guess they didn't like my warring ways (an Iroquois city flipped the same turn - but I was at war with them.) It didn't take anything to get it back - I waited 4 turns till my peace deal expired and retook it - this time razing it and refounding in a better spot.
I'm just mean that way! :devil:

Keep up the good work!

I had figured that it would take two turns, but I thought it might be a worthwhile venture to send a couple of units that direction. Depending on whether or not America is trading for more luxuries, the ivory could be making several citizens happy per city which would have a substantial effect if lost (I am sure all 3 cities have marketplaces). However, if the idea is to take a full-scale attack on Washington within a turn or two, then perhaps all units need to be stationed together. Just something to ponder and strategize with.

Update coming, but first some quick replies.

@k-a-bob: good move. Razing and refounding is greatly effective, since the newfound city would have zero enemy culture.

@BlackBetsy: no MT, and no cavalry then :( - i have to do the job with knights. Your views on the ivory affair are correct, but it's the whole situation that is quite complicated and potentially dangerous. I've addressed better the matter on the following update. Feel free to post an opinion about my choosed path, even if its negative :D

@Zelda's: alas, the turns needed are 3, supposing the city of Chicago remains loyal, and then we'll have do deal with a slow healing process (remember: no barracks around). I've pondered a lot the situation, and examined the possible alternatives. None of them are pleasant, including the choosed one... just see and judge by yourself...

-----------------------------

1160AD - Walking on a minefield

The situation is potentially dangerous. To focus more on the critical stuff, non-critical issues are addressed first :) The last catapults are upgraded into cannons, and those cannons already available are sent in support of the "insurance troops" stationed outside Philadelphia and New York. I cannot do much for Chicago, just leave inside a knight an hope for another turn of grace.

A knight is rushed in Forte Diavolo - it's costly but i'm a little short of those beasts at the moment. Slaves are redeployed. Reinforcements are sent through the communication line. 2 extra muskets are available in Forte Pizza, and are sent to San Francisco to (try to) speed up the quelling process. The combat settler moves north and reach Atlanta. The stack of cannons and muskets proceeds north (another obvious move).

Now, it's time to deal with that lone ivory tile. Cutting off that luxury would mean 2 happy citizens less in all the American cities, a situation which is likely to cause civil disorder at least somewhere. Abe is already suffering heavy war weariness, and this move could be the decisive blow to its production potential.

A precisation is necessary: while the most effective move would be pillaging it, it's sufficient to have an unit sit on that luxury to negate it at least in this turn, and this would be enough to wreak havoc in loyalist cities. Even if occupation forces are killed in the interturn, next turn they can move there again and repeat the process.

There are 2 basic ways to negate that resource. The 1st would be sending a suicide unit, like an already redlined knight, to sit on it. The second would be sending a substantial force, strong enough to withstand the skirmish, and pillage the tile in the successive turn. Normally i would opt for the 2nd, but in this particular situation i don't think it's the best course of action. It would take 3 turns to move, pillage and return, in which no unit could heal. If i send a suicide unit, the others can stay fortified and have a chance to regain some hitpoints, or instead move SE to benefit of the protection of cannons and muskets.

Then, there's the Chicago problem. The grace period has expired. Now, with 8 tiles under foreign control, 11 citizens resisting, a distance of only 3 tiles from the American capital (opposed to the 30 or so from Athens), a substantial enemy culture and a global culture ratio of 2 and a half to 1, what are my chances to see it still in my hands in the next turn? It doesn't need an expert of the culture flip formula to give an answer.

Ok. There's a suicide knight that is supposed to fulfill 2 tasks: negate a luxury for one turn and divert skirmishers from the healing stack. But... how about offering a better bait, like the undefended city of Chicago? The knight could survive enough to pillage the ivory tile, at the cost of a city that is likely to be lost anyway...

An alternative would be betting on Chicago not revolting, give the stack a chance to heal, and sacrifice the suicide knight instead. Then we could have a luxury negated for one turn, a knight killed, and probably a city less.

I'm seriously considering the idea of leaving Chicago open to the American recapture. The wounded stack could move back to my territory, reach Forte Diavolo in 2 turn with a movement left to fortify, then be healed quickly. And if i don't sent one redlined knight to the ivory tile, but 2 units at (almost) full hitpoints, the probability of pillaging it would raise significantly.

Seeing how things look like, probably the best move would have been to delay the attack and wait for better support by muskets and cannons. I'm really tempted to reload the game and behave that way, but honestly... i've played this game fairly so far... cannot do that, not after i've posted such a log. If i was playing a strictly private match, and no one would never know... perhaps...

I move the stack SE, then south, send a musket in support, move the 2 units defending Chicago on the ivory tile, then send the 2 cannons captured in Chicago to reach the stack.

That little triangle in the top-left corner of the screen is tempting. To hell with it! The game will be played fairly and, if i'm screwed up, i'll change my personal title in "complete idiot", as someone did before...

I open the city screen of Chicago, sell all the improvements, toss an unrepeatable sequence of profanities, then finally hit enter.

A frigate tear off 1 hitpoint at the defender in Philadelphia.

A knight walk into the undefended Chicago and recapture it.

A knight charge from Boston and kill my full-strength elite knight.

Another knight charge from Boston. The 2nd knight is redlined but victorious!

I've achieved my goal, for a measley hitpoint. And no city has revolted. The curiosity to reload just to see how things could have gone if i choosed a different course of action is great. But it would be too tempting, and i want to continue playing a fair game.

Chicago is lost, but Abe is left with 2 happy faces less and some WW points more. It could have gone worse.

In the picture: the actual situation on the northern front, at the start of the 1170AD turn, with the next planned moves.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS017.jpg

I'm fairly sure that you have to pillage a resource to remove it, not just stand on it. That's what pillaging is for, after all.
I'm not sure how to understand you, but just fortifying your units won't make them heal faster, you have to let them stand still for that.

I may be wrong but... in my past memories, when an enemy walked on a resource owned by me, that resource was negated, or at least this is how i recall the events. Anyway, a knight has survived and it's my turn now, so bye bye ivory.
I'm not sure how to understand you, but just fortifying your units won't make them heal faster, you have to let them stand still for that.
I know it. Actually, if they don't fortify they don't heal at all. What part of the log are you referring to? I may have been unclear somewhere... :confused:

tricky, you are correct. placing an enemy unit is enough to cut off the trade. the reason to pillage is so that you don't have to keep the unit there or if that unit is killed the trade remains severed until a worker can rebuild the road.

Oh, and I've been reading the thread every day. :)

Tricky, say it isn't so! The battle for Chicago (my hometown :) ) was for naught? Five Roman knights died for Chicago and you just let them walk back in? You don't even risk a flip and make them expend a knight or a rifle against a fortified musketman?

No wonder Rome fell. ;)

Interesting choice with the Ivory and Chicago. If Chicago had revolted they'd get a free rifleman. Now they have to spread out their defense even more. And you sold all of Chicago's happiness buildings. :satan: I wonder if you could sell all the infrastructure in the other American cities to be safe...but if I recall you don't like starving people so you probably can't sell the happy buildings without starving them with entertainers.

Now that they can draft they'll be hurting even more happywise. I bet next turn sees Chicago and maybe even another city in disorder due to Chicago's lack of happy buildings and drafting riflemen.

I knew a citizen can't work a tile an enemy is on, but I never realized you could disrupt the resource that way! I thought you had to pillage. Come to think of it that makes sense because you can cut off trade by surrounding the capital with units, ergo standing on an enemy road disrupts trade through/on that road.

Been following the thread since mid-first page. I made a reference in another thread about your rushing a harbor with a leader but no one posted that they caught it. Here's the smiley I omitted there for extra humor: ;)

I tried to post in this thread before but my work PC crashed. (Not surprising...long story.) A poster had suggested making peace with America and rebuilding and/or waiting for cavs. I disagreed and wanted to say you have him hurting with WW, happiness, economy and troop production so the only course of action is to keep the pressure on even if it hurts.

EDIT @BlackBetsy: I see your smileys, but I'll respond as if you meant it. Rome dealt a serious blow to Chicago, and it will drag down Abe's economy and defenses. Baiting him into retaking it is more damaging than if it had flipped with defenses, and it may turn out being better than keeping Chicago for now. In fact, tR1cKy may opt to leave retaking Chicago for last given the sorry state it's in--and it will be worse after Abe drafts a defender or two as I expect he will. By the way, I LOVE Giordano's. I keep thinking I'll make the 2.5 hour drive (each way) just for some of that pizza.

If the flip risk was not so high I would suggest to just walk around with a stack of muskets and cannons and just pillage Abe's land to nothing.

It would starve his cities and cut off what little production he has left. The cannons would add a bonus to the muskets if attacked. However, there is still a flip risk with the other captured American cities so I don't know if you have the luxury of time necessary for this maneuver.

I like the idea of leaving Chicago undefended to protect against the flip, but I would have probably sold the improvements and then gifted the city to either Monty or Alex. They have little culture or military might at this point and it gives you an ally. It would also keep the city out of Abe's hands for another turn or two at least.

If you leave America on an island- still watch for culture flips. I had Washington flip (at peace) when their only city was on an island about 30 tiles away!

Once I had a culture flip even when the civ was reduced to a galley with a settler (and probably some other unit).


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.

I like the idea of leaving Chicago undefended to protect against the flip, but I would have probably sold the improvements and then gifted the city to either Monty or Alex. They have little culture or military might at this point and it gives you an ally. It would also keep the city out of Abe's hands for another turn or two at least.
Interesting idea, but the city is still likely to flip and Abe gets a free rifleman.

I used to be a fan of pillaging the enemy city's food, shield and commerce to starve it down to size 6 and no production, but it's a long process. Like you say there is a flip risk, but time is on Rome's side if Abe's cities start rioting. I'd still go with cannons and knights ASAP though.

Monty's capital is a whole lot closer so the flip risk would lessen.

If it did flip he would get a free rifleman and then a couple of drafted ones probably so it is a risk either way.

Hi folks!

My last moves have caused some arguing... well it's clear that in such a situation there wasn't a "good" move, but only a "less bad" one. I thought about giving the city to Monty and rejected the idea, perhaps too hastly. Considering it now, after reading your posts, it doesn't look too bad, except for 1 thing: the "bait effect" on american troops would have been negated, and probably my knights sent to the ivory tile wouldn't have survived enough to pillage it, as i'm going to do once i load again the game.

Probably a "good" move was: giving the city to Monty and signing an alliance with him against America, supposing that Abe would bother to send a boat or two filled with troops to dispose of the last aztec city. But, if America choosed to snub it, i would have been stuck in that war for 20 turns more, or lose my rep.

At least, by leaving Chicago open for recapture i have minimized the uncertainity.

@BlackBetsy: i understand you... don't worry, in a few turns Chicago will shine again, this time under the benevolent rule of the Roman Crown. :smug:

@stachnie: ouch! :cringe: not a lucky day...

@Puppeteer: good analysis - i would have replied to some objections and clarify some points, but you did the work for me. Thanks! ;)

@kenScott: glad to see you again!

Once again, thanx to you all for reading my log and posting your opinions on it. Everyone who likes to share its views is welcome to post.

Next update this evening. Seeya!

Giving back Chicago isn't a bad move at all. The long term strat here is to knock out all the American cities. Chicago with a couple conscripts in it ain't nothing and it makes it easier to take the heavily defended cities. Plus the pop will drop by 1 when Abe takes it back, it will drop again by 1 when Rome takes it back. Think of it as reducing resisters. ;)

Now as for stationing troops back to help take back in case of a flip. Personally I wouldn't be wasting that many troops for that duty. All troops should be at the front. Just station a couple extra mustkets and maybe one Knight back at the old border with America to prevent any infestation south should a city flip. Any extra troops heading to the front could make a stop over to retake the flipped city if needed. Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it at all and invest the most units available to take the rest of the cities. Once that is done, taking back a flipped city is easy.

Now this war with Abe has brought up a question I've had in mind. I know your culture rating is all of the culture of your cities combined. If, in a war, you lose a city with culture, does your culture value drop accordingly or stay at the current culture rating because the city, and your cultural influence, still exist in it? What if the city was razed?

Hm... this thread still hasn't been moved to stories and such. lol. I have been reading since the beggining Tricky!

Now this war with Abe has brought up a question I've had in mind. I know your culture rating is all of the culture of your cities combined. If, in a war, you lose a city with culture, does your culture value drop accordingly or stay at the current culture rating because the city, and your cultural influence, still exist in it? What if the city was razed?

Your total civilization culture remains the same. I recently played a game against a civ with a culture far exceeding my own and despite my razing core city after core city, its culture continued to increase. However, the civ will obviously not generate as much culture once the culture-producing improvements are destroyed.

Your total civilization culture remains the same. I recently played a game against a civ with a culture far exceeding my own and despite my razing core city after core city, its culture continued to increase. However, the civ will obviously not generate as much culture once the culture-producing improvements are destroyed.

Correct, your overall culture score will never go down until you are eliminated. You just don't accumulate anymore for cities that have been captured/razed because they aren't yours.

Each city however "remembers" how much culture you had in it (which is part of what causes a flip). So if your city has 115 culture points and the AI captures it. If you take it back you'll still have 115 culture points in the city and it will start gaining points again per what improvement you have. Now lets say the AI got 8 culture points before you got it back. If the AI gets the city back again then it's 8 points are still there and will start gaining again.

So part of the long term goal to prevent flips is to get as much culture as possible in the city to overtake however much culture the AI had in that city. The more culture you have vs. the AI in that city the less the chances of a flip.

Obviously a razed city is destroyed.

Ahh lovely, then I guess I'll just have to engage the Arabs in scorched-earth warfare. They've got more than 5x my culture and mostly 10-12 sized cities. Genocide doesn't hurt your reputation, right? :mischief:


Oh...And good story tricky! It is very informative.

Hi people! So many posts, and so many folks! :wow: Before updating, i'll answer someone.

I think the question about culture posed by Aegis Shield has already received some good replies, and it's not necessary that i add anything.

@bonscott: you made a good point in exposing the 1 pop reduction that inflict a city every time is captured. Yes, probably the definitive capture of Chicago will be less troublesome. About the insurance troops, they are nothing more that some cannons, 1 musket each stack, a few elite legions and 2 knights. But it's essential that those cities, expecially Atlanta, are promptly recaptured should they flip. The communication line cannot be broken.

@AndrewH & Aegis: thanx a lot for appreciating this game log! I'm honoured to see how much this story has become popular. Be assured that it will go on, regardless of the result. :thumbsup:

-----------------------------------------------------

1170AD - Operation Dillinger

The phase 3 of operation Jessie James should have led to the annexation of Washington and Chicago. Although some serious damage has been delivered to America, no new territory has been conquered. This marks phase 3 as a failure.

New battle plans are drawn, this time less temerarious. The wounded stack of knights is moved back in the safety of Forte Diavolo and set to heal. The harassing stack of muskets and cannons is moved in the mountain SE of Washington, where it can safely bombard the american capital. An elite, full-power knight join the party. The combat settler advance north. Next turn it will be in enemy territory, where it will found a fort and rush barracks immediately.

Once these preliminary deployments are done, troops from south can move quickly from Forte Diavolo, then reach the Washington mountains in only 1 turn. This would prevent America from skirmishing against incoming troops, and grant wounded knights the ability to retreat and fortify in a friendly barracks in only 1 turn.

If nothing goes wrong, the new fort will be operative 2 turns from now, in time to grant healed knight a path to reach the Washington mountain in the same turn. According to this timeline, the attack on Washington should begin in the year 1200AD.

The goal of operation Dillinger is the capture of Washington. No further objectives are given for sure now, although a successive attack on Seattle is the preferred continuation, in order to deny every source of furs to Abe. However, different paths are yet to be excluded. An alternative would be going for the "capital hunt" in order to minimize flips. Obviously, the immediate availability of full-healed troops will be taken into account.

The insurance troops around Atlanta are augmented. It is essential to keep intact the communications between the front and the rest of the empire, or else reinforcements could not arrive quickly. Controlling Atlanta is now paramount, and there must be enough troops around to ensure a quick recapture should that city flip. New York and Philadelphia are less important, but a flip in those cities would be troublesome as well, since Forte Diavolo would be put at risk of flipping itself.

In the meantime, new units are arriving in the combat zone. Two muskets are available, and knights are on the way. A knight is rushed in Forte Pizza. And slaves continue to clean up some mess in the former aztec territory.

This map shows the details of the operation Dillinger. The blue spot is where the new fort will be founded. The solid blue border is the territory it will claim, note that Chicago would be deprived of an important source of food and is likely to starve: in case it's reduced to size 6 a couquest would be easier. The red lines, in different tones to put in evidence the different turns, represent the choosen path for an attack on Washington and, maybe, Seattle. The solid red border is the claimed land once Washington is captured. From there, an attack on Chicago may be led in only 1 turn.

Another update is around the corner, i'm playing the game right now. Stay tuned folks!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS018.jpg

This "fort" tactic - I never tried it myself. Never knew it was possible to found cities wihtin enemy borders, even at war. Thought that was kind of the point of borders... Seems very helpful, though - perhaps not an entirely fair tactic when you think about it, as the AI is probably quite unlikely to use it against the human player, but still..

I like the fort idea. I will use it when I pick up playing Civ 3 (I'm going back to Lords of the Realm 2 right now...now there's a trip through history :-p ) Temporary bases for troops while invading will rapidly speed up healing time...almost as good as having a M*A*S*H unit out there ;)

Anyway, my $0.02. Your main problem is Washington, of course, probably followed by Boston, the Chicago, and finally Seattle. Why do I say it like this? By looking at the culture area, most of the control in the area is from Washington. Chicago, and Boston have nice areas out there as well, so they have some decent culture as well, but Seattle's border doesn't extend that far out. You could probably wait to conquer it to last...if you're concerned about flipping at least.

Something else I'd like to mention. You're probably only going to use their cities to stage attacks on the remaining US cities. You have two good intact ports to the south (New York and Phillidelphia) one on either side of the isthmus. With those as your naval production cities, you can afford to bombard the **** out of the population of Washington, Chicago, Seattle, and Boston. You have the artillery, if you're waiting for buildup, just keep attacking. If you can get those cities below 6, the difficulty of your task is reduced quite a bit. You won't miss the production too dearly, and it reduces the number of unhappy resistors you'll have. (Pop 1 can only have 1 resistor). Of course, you do run the risk of destroying key improvements, but they could have been fire saled already, or by the time your troops grace their streets.


EDIT: BTW, this log is awesome. It almost makes me forget the fact that my Civ 3 playdisk is 30 miles away and locked in my dorm room, which won't be opened again until Sunday. :confused:

tR1cKy,
I've enjoyed reading your story line. Your colorful commentary is keeping the game log fresh and interesting. :goodjob:

Can you provide some insight into your infrastructure, build order, and use of the luxury slider in the future. I think my use of these things are hindering me past the Monarch level. Thnx!

A quick note on the forts:

You can settle a new city in someone elses border. BUT, if you are not at war you will have to declare war to found the new city. Otherwise if at war you can settle anywhere no problem since it's no longer an act of war since you are already at war. ;)

...I know it. Actually, if they don't fortify they don't heal at all. What part of the log are you referring to? I may have been unclear somewhere... :confused:
The important thing is that they don't move that turn. This is regardless if they are fortified or not, you can just hit the space bar as well, if you want.
Hope that's a bit clearer (I've been drinking some wine earlier ;) ).

haha. I need more pictures Trick. :(

HI! Too bad no update yesterday, i fell asleep (not sleeping much these days... :rolleyes: ). Got the log ready, i only have to compose the image before posting it. First, some replies:

About the fort argument: yes, it's a dirty trick, but hey! Don't the AS play dirty every time they have an occasion to take advantage on you? The problem with the "combat settler" is this: building a city on foreign territory causes an automatic declaration of war and a serious reputation penalty, equivalent to a ROP abuse. But, if you are already at war with them, you shouldn't suffer any hit (or at least i think so, i'm not 100% sure!).

@dresdor: thank for appreciating the log so much! Your suggestion are correct, but... you're too optimistic :( Ok, it's not easy to spot things just by looking at a reduced screenshot. Here's the situation:

1) culture: alas, all the remaining american cities have more than 1000 culture points, so they have all the same influence (i.e. big). And this means that capturing Washington won't ease things too much - actually it will, because of its central position. :D

2) naval units: ports in New York and Philadelphia have been destroyed, but it's not important, i could build regulars. The problem is that i don't know magnetism yet, so no naval bombard unit is available for me at the moment.

@mrtn: ahh, i understand now. I wrote somewhere that i fortified the stack of knights outside Chicago to have them healed. Of course they needed to be fortified in friendly territory for at least 1 turn more, which didn't happen because Chicago was left open for recapture.

@AndrewH: cannot post too much pictures, or the pages will be hogged up to death...

@llib_rm: welcome around! here are some general info, if you need more ask again...

Rome is backwards now. We're a late medieval power fighting against a pre-industrial one. Knight and muskets against riflemen and (probably) cavalries. Most of our cities have a temple and a marketplace. The bigger ones have a cathedral. Some have a library and 2 or 3 an university. I'm building banks at the moment - not in all cities at the same time, of course! Culture is low, but growing.

Since i have the Sistine Chapel and the Bach's Cathedral, i have no more unhappiness problems. I used the slider only for a few turns at 10% to avoid ending the WLTKD. But now all cities (excluding americans!) are happy.

Research has always been zero from the start of the game from now. I'm using a scientist somewhere, and that's all. Now, someone could ask me: why in the hell i've built libraries and universities in some cities? The answer is: culture. I need some even if i am going for world conquest. And i may found myself in the urgent need of researching a tech. Better been prepared. Obviously, markets and banks come first.

The former aztec cities are building temples now. They have been stripped of almost all aztec nationals and now they are re-growing. Until they reach size 6 they won't be productive at all, so they're slowly building a basic cultural structure that will allow them to expand and grab more useful tiles. Of course, i intend to rush those temples, then build courthouses, but now i'm rushing knights...

1180AD - Uprising

Several events happened in the interturn. Bob of the Iroquois declared on Persia, again. He's quite resolved to become the superpower of the New World. Damn him! Everyone who ventured into these difficulty levels knows well how a deity superpower may be troublesome. I'll have to deal with it, i guess...

Abe calls for a peace audience, which i obviously refuse. My pillager knight is attacked and killed. And Philadelphia revolts.

First, Philly must be recaptured. It's size 8 now, so it probably drafted a rifleman. And a veteran rifle, rather than a regular, is showed inside the city. Those scumbags must have received backup... a frigate was visible in the coastal waters, probably there was a galleon too... who knows?

Cannons open fire. The veteran is damaged, and a regular appears. The 2nd volley weaken the regular, and the veteran at 3/4 is visible again. Another volley, another hitpoint removed. The conscript shows up. The last volley kills a pop unit. Now Philadelphia is size 7. I think it would be wise to delay the recapture 1 turn to reduce it to size 6... but i'm not wise enough. A knight charges, kills the conscript and is promoted elite. The elite legionary charges, redlines the regular but is killed. The 2nd knight attacks and destroy the veteran at 2/4. Now only the redlined regular remains, and another knight is sent from Forte Diavolo to deliver the final blow. Defender killed, knight undamaged, and Philadelphia is recaptured. Too bad the harbor has been destroyed. The good side is that Philly, now at size 6, is less problematic.

Wait... that lone rifleman wandering around the border is troublesome. Rifles attack at 4, and they can be quite a nuisance for my backward musketmen. The insurance stack of New York is sent 1 tile NE, where it can mantain control on the city and target that vermin as well. Cannons fire their volleys... and manage to tear off 2 hitpoint from it. That scumbag is no more a problem. Although, if i leave it alone, it will retreat to Washington and heal. Sincerely, i'd prefer him dead :D We'll se what to do with it at the end of the turn.

Now, it's time to cheer the inhabitants of Washington - a fine sequence of 8 cannon volleys should do the job. Good morning... BANG. At least 4 veteran rifles are garrisoned inside. 3 are damaged, one is at 2/4, and the barracks are destroyed. The other shots fail.

Choice is made. A knight is sent to kill the pester. Redlined, but victorious.

War weariness is killing Abe. In the top 5 screen, 4 of 5 are american, and all of them are short on food! How many clowns per city, Abe? They'll be more, until you are fired.

The combat settler cross the border. A musket was waiting. A 2nd is sent in support. Never be sure... cavalries are coming :( The army is still empty in Forte Diavolo. I'll fill it with knights if necessary.

In the shot: roman troops prepare for their ordinary job.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS019.jpg

Get that Army with Knights. It will help you out a lot. May seem like a waste when Cavs are around the corner but an Army of Knights can be quite usefull well into the industrial age. I'd use 'em as internal security. Once you get rails, have a stack of 6 atries along with that Knight army and maybe 1 cav and that's all you need to knock off any small invasions. It's also usefull for pillage missions since it will be hard to kill with just a couple units.

yeah, i've come to the same conclusion. It will be useful, even if i'm a few turns short of military tradition (i mean, once american asses have been kicked enough!).

---------------------------------

1190AD - Landgrab

First, something i forgot to mention about last turn. Finally, San Francisco is no more in resistance, and i'm rushing a settler into it. A knight has been rushed in Forte Pizza too. I've moved the musket in New York 1 tile NE, to ensure safe communications between Forte Diavolo and the upcoming new fort. Those frigates can disrupt the road if there are no defenders. The legionary is sent in its place.

I end the 1180 turn, and several things happen. First, America and Persia have signed a trade embargo against Rome. I couldn't care less. Persia will be doomed in a few turns, and America is about in the same situation.

A knight attack the muskets defending the settler. Musket killed, knight at 4/5. A 2nd knight attack the musket NE of New York and is killed. The defender is redlined but promoted elite. Another rifleman has been pooped from Washington and sent south to harass my land. Meat for cannons, i presume.

Chicago and Washington have lost 1 pop unit. Chicago in now size 6, and Washington 11. But i'm not sure if Washington is starved or has drafted another rifle. We'll see soon.

The combat settler founds Forte Apocalisse in its designated spot. Barracks are rushed immediately.

Cannons bombard Washington again. Little damage is done, except for the destruction of the temple. 4 riflemen are weakened, but there's at least a fifth one, veteran and undamaged, guarding the american capital. I'll need more firepower to deal with them. The 4 cannons outside New York are sent to join with the stack. The bombarding unit stationed outside Philadelphia take their place. The american rifleman wandering around the border is bombed to 1/4 and killed. The harassing knight is sent to hell by another knight.

It's time to count my available troops. 14 knight divisions at full power in Forte Diavolo. 3 more lightly damaged (3 hitpoints). 2 extra mounted units will be available next turn. 12 cannons outside Washington. It's better to wait 1 turn more before launching the decisive attack.

I end my turn, and wait... nothing disastrous happens. A knight attack the defending troops in Forte Apocalisse and retreats redlined. Chicago is still starving, it's size 5 now. Boston has completed Newton's University... Abe should seriously increase his medication. I'm swallowing all his country and he's busy building wonders... good for me. Another fine addition to the Roman Crown.

The citizens in Washington are cheered by the usual volleys of cannons. This time i obtain a precise count of the veteran rifles garrisoned inside: 5. Two of them have been weakened at 2/4, so they'll be still damaged next turn. I wasn't able to see the conscripts, but there should be at least one of them.

It's time for a precise recount of the available troops. 17 mounted units at full power, 7 of them elites, and an army available. I've decided to use the army, and to hell with cavalries! It will be necessary in Washington. The army is loaded with veterans, then the whole stack, except for one unit, is sent north.

One of the already wounded unit finish off the american knight. Then, nothing else is done, except the ordinary works of slaves and the movement of troops from south. Next turn we'll be having a party in Washington.

In the shot: more roman activity on the front. Business as usual.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS020.jpg

Two of them have been weakened at 2/4, so they'll be still damaged next turn.

Don't troops in cities (without barracks) heal at 2HP per turn?

Don't troops in cities (without barracks) heal at 2HP per turn?
Damn! I didn't consider this :cringe:. You're right. No damaged units next turn, then :( Thanks for the correction.

Another fine addiction to the Roman Crown.


You mean't addition, right? ;)
Still checking this thread every day, it's way better than some logs in S&T!

Sorry Trick, you know how much i love my pictures. lol

@Eastian: yeah, i meant addition... :D

@AndrewH: no problem, i like putting pictures on the log, they're of help. I just don't want to abuse of them

@both: thanks for appreciating my log! See what's happening now...

---------------------------------------------------

1210AD - One step forward, one step back

In the interturn, Abe try to annoy me with all his naval force. 4 frigates bombard New York. A defender is damaged and the courthouse is destroyed. Another one bombard a wheat tile and destroys its improvement. A knight attack a defending musket on the main road and retreats redlined. On the other coast, another frigate bombards Philadelphia. No damage done.

Surprisingly, Mario of the Persians managed to capture an Iroquois city. However, the balance of power is too much biased toward Bob. It's only a matter of time before Persia is completely annexed.

Chicago has starved again. Size 4. What the hell is happening in that lousy village?

Abe is still in democracy. He wants to be buried under war weariness. If he's happy...

It is time to go to our rendez-vous with the population of Washington. First, some cannon fire to announce our arrival :D. As before, 5 veteran rifles are defending, and all of them are damaged. One is at 2/4. Good. And now, the mighty roman cavalry enters the big show.

The army attack. Losing 4hp, it kill the first defender. Not bad.

Veterans charge. The first reduces a rifle to 2/4, but it's killed. The 2nd redlines a defender but it's killed too. A third veteran attacks, tear off 1 hitpoint from the last defender and retreats redlined. The first conscript rifleman shows up. The successive charge kills him, but a second conscript is visible. A knight redlines it but dies. The conscript isn't promoted. Phew...

Now a damaged rifle at 2/4 is visible. Time to bring on the elites. The first kills the rifle undamaged. Another rifle at 2/4 shows up. The 2nd elite charges, redlines the defender but dies. The rifle is promoted elite. Another defender at 2/4 shows up. A charge, and the rifleman is no more. The elite at 2/5 is now visible. The other 2 defenders still alive are both redlined.

The last 3 charges are all successful, and Washington is captured, at last! Sun Tzu's War Academy and Smith's Trading Company are in my hands. Too bad i don't have enough troops left for an immediate attack on Chicago, but it's just a minor nuisance. The capital has moved to Seattle.

Five veteran rifles and 2 conscripts were defending Washington. My casualties: 4 killed, 5 wounded, the army at 8/12. Losses were surprisingly low, but a great part of the merit goes to the 12 artillery squadrons - their bombardment has been quite effective in weakening the garrisoned riflemen.

To complete the carnage, the redlined american knight is killed by one of ours. The winner is promoted elite.

I'm about to move my wounded troops to Forte Apocalisse. They have enough movements left to reach the fort and fortify. But... there's something that is bugging me. Considering the resistor in Washington, the tiles under foreign control and the relative distance of our capitals, Washington is almost certain to flip back. My troops need 2 turns from now to heal, and the grace period is only 1 turn.

Probably i need to draw a rudimental table to figure out things better. Phase 2 of operation Dillinger should go on as follows:

1210: wounded troops move back and fortify
1220: healing
1230: troops and cannons move toward Seattle
1240: capture of Seattle

But, if i consider the possible events in Washington:

1210: wounded troops move back and fortify.
IT : grace period for Washington
1220: wounded troops healing
IT : Washington flips
1230: troops and cannons move toward Seattle <- NO!

In 1230 Washington must be recaptured first, and this means that part of my cannons cannot move toward Seattle in time to fire a volley before the cavalry charges. I need to be already in control of Washington before moving my troops toward Seattle, and the only way to be sure is to leave Washington undefended this very same turn. Here's what would happen:

1210: wounded troops move back and fortify, Washington is left undefended.
IT : Americans recapture Washington
1220: wounded troops healing. the undamaged ones capture Washington again.
IT : grace period now!!!
1230: troops and cannons move toward Seattle

It may look like weird at first sight. But, once again, leaving a just conquered city in the hands of the enemy is the best course of action! The occupying knight is moved on the mountain where the big stack is parked. No defenders remains in Washington, and, for the safety of my plan, i must hope that americans retake it!

Another minor victory is reported on the "naval front". The "insurance stack" around New York is moved 1 tile NW where it can target an american frigate with cannons. The boat is redlined, then a caravel is sent to deliver the final blow. It sinks the frigate and retreats in the safety of New York.

Now there's another problem. In order to strike at Miami, the american city on the island, roman boats should circumnavigate the northern part of the Old World... exactly in the middle of the main naval force of America. But... if i disband Forte Pizza and refound it 1 tile NW, a channel would be created. This way roman caravels can approach Miami from safe waters. There's an american settler just popped out from San Francisco. It would be perfect for that task. The settler is moved south and got ready to build the fort.

Alas, nothing else can be done now. Excess troops are not enough for a "safe" attack on Chicago.

I hit enter, hoping to lose a city. It's a strange feeling...

In this shot: the position of the island settlements of Miami and Xochicalco, the last remnant of the Aztec Republic. In the bottom right: the small strip of land that can be exploited for a canal if a new fort is built on the blue spot.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/tR1ckyBS021.jpg

I managed to get my first conquest victory on monarch today due to this thread. By using forts and letting the enemy recapture conquered cities ( just 2 things i've learnt how to use since reading this thread) made the job so much easier.

I'll be interested in seeing how you will implement your tactics when it requires you to use a sea invasion when you inevitably come face to face with Bob.

KUTGW :goodjob: