This one is about fighting war the way it is for us in the modern era. Gone are the days were the general population was considered the enemy and could be treated like combatants. Now we must respect the native population at all costs and we can only attack military targets.

With this in mind, the following rules apply:
1) All cities must be captured. (We can discuss if we want to disallow autoraze).
2) Once a city is captured, it cannot be starved, we must keep it as it is, after all the "insurgents" are legitimate. Once a city is no longer rebellious, we can rush settlers if they are needed, but not for the purpose of reducing flip risk. Same goes for workers, once they city is ours, it can build workers as long as they "get paid" and it isn't done to reduce flip risk.
3) Slavery is bad, if we capture workers in a war, they must be merged back into the population of a city that contains natives of the same ethnicity. IF this can't be done, they must be merged into the closest city. While they are in "slave" status, they may not used to work, but they must be protected from harm. Slaves may neither be traded nor bought.
4) We cannot bombard anything but military units. If a bombardment has a chance of distroying any building or killing a citizen, it isn't allowed. That means bombers can attack units only, no cities.
5) No pillaging, except of resources. We cannot not starve a city down before capturing it. This also applies to naval/aerial bombardment.
6) If it gets that far, no use of atomics.
7) Since people are the prime concern we want to be in only to forms of government, Republic or Democracy. We do not have to "beeline" for those techs, but it should be a goal to get them and swap as soon as strategically possible.
8) While in depotic we cannot use pop rush.
9) We must win by domination. Any other victory type is dishonorable. We would rather lose the game than take the easy way out.

I try not to be as hard about play time, sometimes things get in the way. I won't make hard and fast deadlines, but would ask you to either play or post a skip as soon as you are able. This keeps the game moving and keeps everyone interested and happy.

Also, each turn (except the first player) will be around ten turns +/- a few. If you don't have to complete them all then its OK to stop early and pass it on. Sometimes the game just has some natural break points beyond which you might commit the next player to a massive undertaking and you want to leave the choice up to them as they will shoulder the burden. Sometimes a war is just about over and you don't want to leave a the next player with a couple of boring "clean-up" turns or you have worked to get something done that you feel is important and you don't want it lost. Take a couple extra to do so. Try not to "hog" all the fun, but don't short change yourself either.

The parameters, standard size, continents, 70%, normal, temperate, 4 billion. Random opponents, random barbs, standard victory conditions, no culture link, no respawn. These are not set in stone, let me know if anyone wants changes.

I would think Industrious with a good matching trait.
Thoughts, Civs for consideration?

Current Roster:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet
Northern Pike

I will hold one spot for Lee if he wants it, as this was partly his idea.

[Edit] Update roster, add rule 8.
[Edit2] Update roster, add rule 9.
[Edit3] Finalized the roster.

4) We cannot bombard anything but military units. If a bombardment has a chance of distroying any building or killing a citizen, it isn't allowed. That means bombers can attack units only, no cities.
That also means you can't bombard cities with walls using artillery.

sounds like an interesting concept. which difficulty setting? deity? I'll take the challenge, if you take me. I think a Civ with an efficient workforce is a must since slaves are out.

I haven't set the difficulty level yet, I was waiting for input. I would think no less than DG, otherwise the flips won't be that much of an issue. Also, depending on the answers to the autoraze question, early wars may be out. This may be good anyway, as we will most likely work on culture early.

I was thinking that we could go for either scientific or religous for the other trait.

Deity, America, the land of the free -
Every one loves our country. Any purchased / captured workers must be merged into a cities.
Goal - domination with under Republic / Democracy. Democracy is a mandatory research goad. War weariness with lots of war whiners. Doesn't this sound like fun?

As for joining I am still debating. I really know I over-commited a bit...
I would like to see the gaps such as Civ decided first. To me America still fights this well.

Now why does Meldor think my idea is hear?

America at Deity would be fine with me. The second trait is expansionist and the UU comes really late. We would have to grab our GA by wonder (conquered or built). Expansionist may allow us a good shot at getting techs.

america at deity would be nice, yes. never played them before.

Since this is based on my idea is a domination win the mandaotory target?
Without that, all the city rules really don't matter as you can simply avoid getting cities.

I would say that we go for domination. I would say conquest, but that last turn would be hard to get in :)

I would say that we go for domination. I would say conquest, but that last turn would be hard to get in :)

Well if you make this officially part of the rules set I am in.

Updated the roster and added the new rule. All we need now is at least one more player and we can get this one started.

The auto-raze rule still needs to be discussed.

lurker's comment Looks like an intereting variant on Civ. Not signing up, though. Demigod is too difficult for me even without the PC conditions. :sad:

I'd like to join, although I'm still on travel hiatus and won't be in a position to play until March 4. If that doesn't suit you, Meldor, I'll understand and no offense taken.

That sounds good NP, I will put you on the roster. We will hold the spot unitl your return. That leaves one spot open, but we can get started once we agree on the autoraze.

I have been thinkin on this, I could probably live if we can autoraze. This is really no different than losing the 1 pop unit when capturing a city. If we all agree, then I can get this started tomorrow night.

I have been thinkin on this, I could probably live if we can autoraze. This is really no different than losing the 1 pop unit when capturing a city. If we all agree, then I can get this started tomorrow night.
I agreeeeee

I will put you on the roster. We will hold the spot unitl your return. That leaves one spot open, but we can get started once we agree on the autoraze.

Great. :king: Autorazing is fine with me.

autoraze fine with me too

i'd like to join

question to rule 4: can cruise missiles harm citizens? iirc they can't and therefore would be allowed to be used agains cities.

is civ=america final? with the expected flip risk, rel/sci (egypt, persia, ottomans) might be a better second trait to ind. culture will be very important in this game. exp can help a lot early, so it's ok too.

You are welcome to join, I will update the roster.

I think America is the choice more for "atmosphere" than for the traits. Expansionist isn't a bad trait to have to start, as long as we have goodie hut luck. An early tech or two or even a settler can make the game a lot nicer.

Starting with Masonry will give us realy good trade bait early on as well. Another thing to remember is that this is continents - finding the other Civs and having exclusive contacts can be a huge advantage as far as tech cost and trade opportunaties. Sneaking in an early curragh is important as well.

I will get this one started tonight.

question to rule 4: can cruise missiles harm citizens? iirc they can't and therefore would be allowed to be used agains cities.Don't they hit buildings? If so, they can't be used on cities, if not then they would be OK. I don't use them much as I think that they are overpriced for what you get as a onetime shot. Useful against some ships, not as useful as the arty you could have instead.

Don't they hit buildings? If so, they can't be used on cities, if not then they would be OK. I don't use them much as I think that they are overpriced for what you get as a onetime shot. Useful against some ships, not as useful as the arty you could have instead.

I like CM now, but I have no idea what they do with cities. I use them mostly as a way to get rid of stray ships harassing your shores. I really us them when ships knock a city of a fish causing starvation or whale causing a miss of a building.

I only used one against a city with a 1 HP unit to kill the final unit. I killed the unit, but not enough examples to say for sure.

I agree that they can be useful against ships that arty can't hit as they move out of range a lot, but that is about the only use I give them.

usually i don't use them too, but if they give as a possibility to injure/kill the MA defenders without endangering buildings/pop, they'd be a big help. better then impaling countless units on metros. will certainly remember them next time when the AI keeps it's units out of arty range...

4000 BC (0)
In the tradition of the MDLR series, we take the first offering. We are standing near the water on plains with a wheat and one BG showing. I move the worker to the BG and the scout to the souteast. It looks like we are on a pennisula. The worker reveals a silk. I elect to move the settler one square to the coast to get the silks closer and us on the coast. Not the best start, but I have seen worse. The biggest problem will be that we won't have as many first ring cities.

3950 BC (1)
Washington is founded and we start working on Alphabet at max. It is 50 turns right now but that should drop when we meet others. We begin work on a warrior for MP, the worker begins a mine.

3900 BC (2)
There is another cow to the SE.

3850 BC (3)
Spot our first goodie hut.

3800 BC (4)
The Odd Gods of the Galaxy bless us as the goodie hut gives us a settler. Looks like we will get our second city ealry. One top of that, our scout reveal some flood plains to the north. I elect to move the settler to the flood plains.

3750 BC (5)
Oh wow, the flood plains have two wheats on them, guess I know where our settler factory is going to be.

3700 BC (6)
(I)Washington Warrior->Granary.

3650 BC (7)
Found the city of New York on the coastal flood plains with the two wheats. It needs a worker.

3600 BC (8)
Worker starts to road the forest with the silks, its next job after that will be to bring water south.

3500 BC (10)
Pop a second goodie hut and get a warrior, how disapointing...

3450 BC (11)
The silks are connected

3400 BC (12)
Spot a yellow border. Have to move lux to 20% to keep New York happy.

3350 BC (13)
We meet Eygpt and they are up BW and CB. They already have our techs and no deals can be had.

3250 BC (15)
Pop a third goodie hut and get CB from it. Alphabet drops to 24 as it appears that Egypt was researching it as well.

3200 BC (16)
(I)New York worker->temple, it needs the forest for shields.

3000 BC (20)
Please swap the citizen from the wheat to the silks so that it grows and completes the granary on the same turn.

The red circles are the city sites that are closest.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-3000BC.JPG

We are off and running:
Meldor
ThERat (Playing)
LKendter (On Deck)
el_filet
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

ok got it, this one should be up by tonight, since it should play faster. have 2 other games up as well :lol:

edit: meldor, that is not the save file, you attached but the image

@ThERat - Edits done 5 hours later may NOT get noticed. This type of notice should have been a NEW post.

The only reason I saw you edit was I was coming to the thread to announce the same thing. The .zip file has a picture inside of it. :crazyeye:

I know LK, edit isn't that good, but since Meldor wasn't online ever since I thought edit is ok

Sorry about that, I put the wrong file in. If this happens again, don't edit because it doean't show as a new post. Please put a new post and PM the person. If nothing else the PM will generate an e-mail.

I only saw this because I was looking to see what was taking so long.

sorry Meldor, since I had this exchange with LK, I thought you would see it. next time pm you, got it, will be played by today/tonight s'pore time

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-2550BC.SAV)

Pre-turn
reading the rules again
since NY can even get 2 uncorrupted shields, put citizens on both wheat. try and match granary with growth

IT Egypt warrior heading to NY

1. 2950BC
granary in 1 growth in 2

2. 2900BC
granary -> scout
scout spots blue border

IT :mad: NY has disease

3. 2850BC
say hello to Maya, up BW and WC but down CB
well we can't even get those techs

the rest of the turns was pretty eventless, settler is on the way to settle in 2
rax in Washington can be used as curragh prebuild since alphabet is due in 3
we could trade alphabet with Maya, our scout is next to a hut now
NY lost 2 pop due to citizen

Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter (currently playing)
el_filet (on deck)
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

2550 BC
I can tell Egypt has met another civ outside of the Maya. My challenge is to find that civ.
I slow down science as I refuse to do negative research with just $12 in the bank.
Mining a wheat tile by Washington doesn't sit right, but I leave it since it will take awhile to get water to Washington.


2510 BC
I pop a hut near the Maya and just get $25.


2470 BC
I pop another hut and get a conscript warrior.


2430 BC
Boston is formed at the southern red dot. We get an extra bonus with a whale tile also down there.


2430 BC
I sell Alphabet to the Maya for Warrior Code, The Wheel and $12.


==========================

Summary:
This was just some more exploring and expansion.
We badly need more workers.

Signed up:
Meldor (on deck)
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet (currently playing)
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-2150BC.zip

A picture of the current empire:
Settler is ready to claim white dot.
Yellow dot will be decent once the plains are irrigated.
The worker is to bring water down the blue lines.
I know the tile isn't used right now.
Washington will need to use the plains soon enough to grow.
Boston isn't optimal until the cow is irrigated.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-617.jpg

The odds of us having iron are slim and nexst to none, with none in the lead, where were the closest horses and can we get a settler there soon?

By the looks of things, workers will be critical in this game as we have a lot of worker tasks to do and there is plenty of wet lands to clear.

Roster:
Meldor (on deck)
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet (currently playing)
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

White circle is the horse source.
Red circle area is the best iron hope.
We really need to expand fast to have a chance at iron.
New York must also build some settlers after the temple.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-618.jpg

I agree 100%, we might want to build near Eygpt and then back fill. The gold mountains would be great even if we don't get iron out of it. Do you have time to dot map it?

how about sending out a curragh, could be slotted in, at Washington

sorry Meldor, since I had this exchange with LK, I thought you would see it. next time pm you, got it, will be played by today/tonight s'pore timeNo problem, BTW. I should have been paying better attention.

i got it...

need a break, MLDR005 took me forever, in spite of almost nothing happening (lot of MM), but think i'll play today

Violated variant rules, scroll down for replay. dotmap still valid

2150 BC (0):
will move the settler, this spot is bad at the moment (food)
down lux (doesn't change anything)

IBT:
washington: warrior->warrior

2110 BC (1):
poprush temple

IBT:
new york: temple->settler

IBT:
washington: warrior->settler
boston: worker->temple

1990 BC (4):
found philly next to cow->worker

IBT:
boot from mayas (scout)

1950 BC (5):
NY needs MP (luckily just got there ;))

1910 BC (6):
cleo got math (in 14 for us, can't get it)
notice byblos 2N of northern gold mountain

IBT:
cleo gets 21g
now she can afford to start oracle

1870 BC (7):
meet greeks on N end (near alexandria): up BW&myst; 8 cities; 16g; spices
poprush settler in NY (don't think i ever did THAT before->40% opression)

IBT:
NY: settler->settler

IBT:
washington: settler->warrior
sparta completes colossus

1750 BC (10):
sent settler on their way


notes:
dotmap attached, loose build
settler 1 from NY to gold mountain
settler 2 from washington to dyes (dotmap: black jungle with yellow circle)
settler 3 from philly to horses in jungle (or from NY to NE horses, probably faster)
we should let washington grow a little now, worker can irrigate wheat after irr/road
deviated from "blue line", this seemed faster
planned road to lux/mine first tile with NY worker

dotmap:
yellow-> lux
blue-> strategic res
red-> should get dot
pink-> probably won't get dots
there are 3 horses, 1 dye (here still black), 1 silk (washington) & 2 spices

roster:
Meldor - up
ThERat (on deck)
LKendter
el_filet - just played
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

deviated from "blue line", this seemed faster
Blue line never was an exact plan. I was just trying to show how water can get south. Our terrain badly needs wated to get our cities growing.

el_filet, I am afraid you have to replay your turns...

2110 BC (1):
poprush temple

This is a clear violation of the rules.

:wallbash:

my first thought about variant rules was they won't apply for a while...at least until there are wars. certainly wrong, will replay soon

It is alright, we get into those habits of what we know is good play and do it without thinking.

2150 BC (0):
will move the settler, this spot is bad at the moment (food)
down lux (ups, it does change our gpt from -1 to 0)

IBT:
washington: warrior->warrior

2040 BC (3):
up lux

IBT:
washington: warrior->settler
disease in NY
boston: worker->temple

1990 BC (4):
found Philadelphia->worker
max science, lux to 0

IBT:
bott from maya

1910 BC (6):
egypt got math

IBT:
cleo starts oracle

1870 BC (7):
meet greeks

IBT:
NY: temple->settler

IBT:
washington: settler->warrior
sparta completes colossus


notes:
dotmap attached, loose build
settler 1 from NY to gold mountain (now settler 2, no poprush; we may want ot grab mountain site first)
settler 2 from washington to dyes (dotmap: black jungle with yellow circle)
settler 3 from phylli to horses in jungle (or from NY to NE, probably faster)
we should let washington grow a little now, worker can irrigate wheat after irr/road
deviated from "blue line", this seemed faster
planned road to lux/mine first tile with NY worker

dotmap:
yellow-> lux
blue-> strategic res
red-> should get dot
pink-> probably won't get dots

roster:
Meldor - up
ThERat (on deck)
LKendter
el_filet - just played
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

I dont think anyone answered this definately, so just for clarity.. Cruise Missiles will only hit units in towns, not pop or buildings (as long as there are units there)

I see it and it is in the queue.

As for the cruise missles, if there is no chance of hitting a building or killing pop, it is OK, if there is a chance of doing so, then it is not.

1750 BC (0)
Not much to change. I think the first settler should go for the hills and a chance at iron, the next one can then go for the horses.
(I)

1725 BC (1)
(I) Washington Warrior->Settler, Philadelphia worker->settler. The Greeks start ToA and we get a much need border expnasion at New York.

1675 BC (3)
I have to up lux tax to 20% for Boston.

1625 BC (5)
Disband the scout in the Mayan area. It has done what it can.
(I)Disease Strikes New York. New York Settler->Settler

1600 BC (6)
(I) New York is hit again. The Mayans complete the Pyramids, The Romans the Oracle.

1575 BC (7)
Atlanta is built to claim the hills and our chance at Iron.
(I) Washington Settler->Rax.

1500 BC (10)
One settler is on the way to settle the horses, The other is on the way to settle the dyes. The next settler should go for either the spices or start back filling. (Maybe the horse could wait and the horse settler goes for the spices??).

roster:
Meldor
ThERat (Playing)
LKendter (On Deck)
el_filet
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

in case two horses are already claimed, i'd go for the horse. but they're probably still aviable, so i vote for spices. which horses do you want to claim? the ones in the jungle seem to be ours anyway, but the ones NE would be nice, we should try to get them (can't look at the save, may be gone already).

in case we're able to get the horses NE: iirc the dot is on fresh water, if not we need to do something about it (city on river hill for example).

got it, it's a little late here, maybe I can still play and then post it tomorrow morning...

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-1250BC.SAV)

Pre-turn
hmm writing is known and we research at max?
go for min research and get money. writing can almost be gotten
there is a lot of land for us, try go north claim horses and get spices

2.1450BC
can now trade for writing
get it from Maya for 12gpt and 55g
trade writing to Greece for BW and 96g, all have IW as well
go for min on Lit

7.1325BC
we get 2 more settlers, will try and claim dyes and other horse before starting to backfill
Boston finished temple, set on palace for GLib prebuild
can spot another landmass east of Greece

IT curragh survives mini suicide run

9.1275BC
AI just learned a lot of new techs,
found Chicago near spices

10. 1250BC
Seattle near horses founded
2 settlers are on the way to claim spot, 1 near dyes, 1 to the horses north, would settle as indicated in the dotmap
then we can slowly backfill
Boston will get the cow next turn, I don't know whether our GLiB run will be of success, but we are in a tech hole
curragh will hopefully find new Civ's soon

GLib is always good, but with our variant rules an early war might be better. we're not strong enought to do both. however, we'll need to do some backfilling first, early culture is needed too. i'd say we go either culture or war.
with horses taking long to connect, i vote culture&GLib against my initial feeling, accompanied by backfilling and a big worker force to bring luxes online.

I think we can do both. The GLib should only take one city away. New York can switch to building workers, both to work and to merge into the other cities to get them up to size 12 ASAP (for the wonder city this is doublely important). The other cities can build temple->rax->archers and then we can hit them when we have 10+ archers. Look to take 2-3 towns and get tech or more cities. I would like to get embassies going with Maya and Greece to give it them in it as well, if we can. I would liek all the close AIs burning their GAs in despotism.


roster:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter (Playing)
el_filet (On Deck)
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

I really got it.

1250 BC
Atlanta was placed close to Egyptian cities. I swap to a temple. Early in the game is the biggest chance of losing it to a flip.

IMO we can't wait 43 more turns for literature. When Boston gains more shields the pre-build won't take 43 turns. I up the science rate to 50%. When the GPT frees up we can maintain this pace without losing money.
(IT) The Cleo lady rips us of $26.
Greece completes the Temple of Artimis.
The Maya cascade and complete the Great Wall.
The cascade continues with Japan building Zeus. I am glad they are on the other continent.
The Arabs complete Hanging Gardens.

This is the biggest cascade I have ever seen.


1225 BC
(IT) I watch Egypt and Greece fighting each other. :dance:
I hope they both burn their GA in despotism. Another advantage for us is that we may gain a more in the land grab while they concentrate on troops.
Egypt completes the Mausoleum of Mausollos.


1175 BC
We cut it a bit close for the dyes!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-622.jpg

We build San Francisco right in front of Egypt.
Miami is build to claim more horses. It will gain whales and fish after border expansion.


1100 BC
Quakertown is formed to claim the nearby hills.
We hit an important milestone in that we already have the right to build the FP.


1050 BC
(IT) Now the Maya rip us off $22.

==========================

Summary:
This was just some more exploring and expansion.
We are still really short of workers.

After the recent Egyptian city placement the :hammer: is a must. That is far too dangerous to us if it builds a temple. The ONLY reason I can see to claim that horrid spot is a future resource (oil, saltpeter and rubber are all possible).
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-623.jpg

I would let Philadelphia concentrate on getting token warriors into our cities. After that it needs to build a barracks and real military.

The settler is heading toward the red dot. We don't want another awkward AI city behind our lines.

Signed up:
Meldor (on deck)
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet (currently playing)
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-1000BC.zip


Boston and how it will be optimal at size 6. The mountain must be mined first for maximum shields.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-624.jpg

playing another game right now, this one will have to wait until tomorrow. got it.

san francisco seems to be a nice spot for FP.

We build San Francisco right in front of Egyptgreat for us, maybe they settled in the desert, because they got no other spot after we stole dyes in front of their nose.

we are very lucky that egypt and greece burn their GA on a war.

@LK: you sent curragh S, why didn't you explore N? is this an island for sure? anyway, it probably too late to send curragh back, but i just returned an exporer in another game for nothing, just want to know if i'm overlooking something here.

@LK: you sent curragh S, why didn't you explore N? is this an island for sure? anyway, it probably too late to send curragh back, but i just returned an exporer in another game for nothing, just want to know if i'm overlooking something here.

I saw the hint of land further south. I wanted to check that out. My gut feeling was the norhtern island went nowhere. I rarely see a land connection that far north.

I concur on the curragh, we might even want to build a second one and send it twoards the Mayans. As far as the Mayan pennisula sticks out, there is most likely a way across over there as well.

The Egypt spot in the dessert was settled lng before they tried to settle the dyes. I would bet a dollar to a dime that the spot has a strategic resource in its borders. Most likely oil.

The Egypt spot in the dessert was settled lng before they tried to settle the dyes.
That was the SAME settler that tried for the dyes. It turned south and took that spot. The warriors were already getting ready to block red dot. I was surpised when they dropped the city there.

The Egypt spot in the dessert was settled lng before they tried to settle the dyesmeldor, look at my screenshot at the end of my turns and that town does not exist at that point of time, I guess they simply settled there due to lack of options

That was the SAME settler that tried for the dyes. It turned south and took that spot. The warriors were already getting ready to block red dot. I was surpised when they dropped the city there.I was at work and didn't see the pics. I was thinking of the one they settled on the coast in the dessert before they went for the dyes. I am still willing to bet that them putting a city there means a good resource.

1000 BC (0):
MM for some food

IBT:
boot from cleo
quakertown: warrior->curragh

975 BC (1):
think about founding in place with settler (2 plain tiles), but stick to dotmap

IBT:
spot mayan galley S of NY

950 BC (2)
found Buffalo->rax
up lux for boston

IBT:
NY: worker->settler
philly: warrior->rax
SF: worker->temple
miami: worker->warrior

925 BC (3):
embassy in athens: size6, building duct in 5; 4 holites, 2 archer; spices&silk, no strat; temple; running full science

IBT:
-

IBT:
horses connected
washington: settler->chariot
edo completes GL

IBT:
watch mayas netting egypt slave near pi-ramesses

850 BC (6):
greeks founded rhodes N of seattle
down science

IBT:
-

IBT:
boot from mayas

IBT:
quakertown: curragh->rax

775 BC (9):
down science to get enough money foe embassy with mayas next turn

IBT:
mayans a pair of warriors SW of philly
washington: chatiot->chariot
seattle: worker->rax

750 BC (10):
rhodes expanded
switch seattle to temple
embassy in chichen: size 11; 4 spear, 4 JT; rax, granary, walls, pyramids & GW; horses, dyes & incense; 13 spt
keep science on 20%, gets us lit one torne before prebuild finishes
cleo got HBR


notes:
probably all 3 AI in GA
settler on way to claim whales

roster:
Meldor (UP)
ThERat (on deck)
LKendter
el_filet (just played)
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

I see it and it is in the queue

750 BC (0)
Turn up science to get Lit in 5 instead of 12, and we still earn +8gpt. I don't know if we have a very good shot at the GLib in Boston. It needs an Aqueduct first. Right now it would be over 20 turns to build even with 100 shield prebuild.

730 BC (1)
The Japanese have built a city on the island to the north. We need to to meet them.

710 BC (2)
(I)NewYork Settler->Worker. Philidelphia Rax->Archer, Miami Warrior->Temple

690 BC (3)
(I)Washington Archer->Temple

670 BC (4)
Found StLoius on the end of the Pennisula and start it on a temple.
(I)We get Lit and start on IronWorking.

650 BC (5)
Sell Lit, 25g and 12gpt to Greece for MapMaking. Sell Lit and 6g to Mayans for HorsebackRiding. Swap Quakertown to Galley so we can get the island settled. Swap Boston to GLib due in 19. The AI is close to Lit, I don't think this will hurt our chances and I want to build horsemen and populate that island.
(I) New York Worker->Settler

610 BC (7)
The dyes are hooked up and we can lower lux.

590 BC (8)
(I) Quakertown Galley->Rax,

570 BC (9)
(I)Egypt and Maya make happy. Philadelphia Archer->Horse. Buffalo Rax->Horse

550 BC (10)
The settler on the Galley is to claim the spot that has the two fish and the BG. It can then cmoe get another settler.

We need another settler on the island and one more in the desert. Other than that, we should be preparing to hit the Egyptians before they get knights.

roster:
Meldor
ThERat (Playing)
LKendter (On Deck)
el_filet
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

BTW, the continuesd research is on purpose, it is towards Republic, our desired government and I want to know where iron is before we hit Egypt. Plus, we could miss the GLib.

BTW, the continuesd research is on purpose, it is towards Republic, our desired government and I want to know where iron is before we hit Egypt. Plus, we could miss the GLib.
I prefer to always self-research if viable. Really so in the AA when tech prices tend to inflate more for purchase.

:scan: :scan: I just realized I can't see the save. :scan: :scan:

didn't get it since there is no save

We will try it again...

I have been given some thought to the idea of building the FP in Boston and then moving the capital north. If we do this early enough and we can clear enough land it might be worth it in this instance. Thoughts?

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-350BC.SAV)

Pre-turn
that's a pretty big island to settle, good for us
we can get IW for HBR from Greece. as suspected there is no iron on our part of the main island, but the southern island has, just next to our settler :)
reduce research, we have negative gpt with 30g in the bank isn't that good

1.530BC
move settler into position

2.510BC
Detroit founded
send curragh on suicide mission and we spot red border + green galley

3.490BC
curragh survives and we meet japanese who are down litarature
build colony to claim spices
advance curragh and we are lucky, there is a Babs galley and we say hello to Rome as well
since we traded Lit already, go ahead since there seems to be a 2-fer available
lit + 10g to Japan for currency
currency and lit to Rome for mysticism and CoL
lit to Babs for philo
min research on republic

7.410BC
Egpyt advances archer on SF, fear they will declare
demand them to leave, they agree but don't

IT Egpyt does not attack

8.390BC
New Orleans on southern island founded

IT Egypt declares on Maya
and they start GL for a third time

10.350BC
we have 3 horses so far
we can settle one more town on the southern island, and settle the desert
republic is on min run, GL due in 4, let's hope we get it, then we can revolt to republic and think about attacking Egypt

our southern holdings
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mldr6350.jpg

7.410BC
Egypt advances archer on SF, fear they will declare
demand them to leave, they agree but don't

IT Egypt does not attack
We got very lucky hear. I never would have demanded over a single unit.

Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter (currently playing) Having a major feast
el_filet (on deck)
Northern Pike (On skip until the 4th)

We got very lucky hear. I never would have demanded over a single unit.
this was because we had some units outside their other town and I felt we would have been in a better position as if they sneak attack

but Egpyt seems rather beat up actually after all the warring. we can get at them. let's hope we get GL. unfortunately it will take ages to build a harbor on that island for iron

unfortunately it will take ages to build a harbor on that island for iron
Once we get the GLib and Republic we can start cash rushing. The two Harbors would be good first choices.

Any thoughts on moving the capital?

Usually I never move capital, but here it might actually make sense

350 BC
Well I have some bad news for the team. We have a slight problem getting the iron. There is a sea square on the way there. We need Astronomy before we can get that iron on-line.

I see Egypt has a worker for sale. However, with the merge rule it really doesn't make sense to buy it.


330 BC
GAH - A worker was left on go to.


290 BC
(IT) We build the Great Library.


270 BC
(IT) We get the following techs: Polytheism, Monarchy, Construction, Monotheism, Feudalism, Engineering, and Republic.


250 BC
Well we won't get the rest of the island. Japan claimed a spot, and the Maya just landed a settler.
(IT) The Maya get $30.


230 BC
I just found a fortified curragh when there is still an island to explore. :(
(IT) Maya and Egypt sign a peace treaty.


210 BC
(IT) We get Chivalry for free.


190 BC
(IT) We get Invention for free.


170 BC
The last of Civ of Babylon has been officially met.

==========================

Summary:
The Republic of America will be formed next turn. I would continue to push horses like crazy. I think we want to get a peace of Egypt.

Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet (currently playing)
Northern Pike (on deck?) (On skip until the 4th)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-150BC.zip

I just found a fortified curragh when there is still an island to explore one my last turn, it arrived back from that southern island and I fortified it to maybe upgrade later on. It would take a long time to get it to the other island, I thought by that time we surely have explored it with our 2nd curragh or got WM already

GAH - A worker was left on go to.
oi, this is really bad, sorry for that, usually I never autosend in SG's :smoke:

Once we are a Republic, we will want to hit Egypt sooner rather than later.

Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet (currently playing)
Northern Pike (on deck)

i got it...

el_filet, any update?

haven't played yet, went on a hospital visit this weekend. i knew i'll need some time but didn't realized i'm already late. will finish tonight.

150 BC (0):
hire some scientists

IBT:
boot from hammurabi&smoke
republic formed

130 BC (1):
send settler toward island
switch to treb in corrupt seattle
run neg science for gunpowder (212g, -9gpt)

IBT:
washington: horse->horse
japan got gunpowder

IBT:
quakertown: horse->horse
babs start leo

90 BC (3):
sell romans republic for 46g&2gpt before somebody else does
found Baltimore S of hieraconpolis->harbor

IBT:
boston: rax->horse
buffalo: horse->spear
new orleans: warrior->worker
kyoto builds sun tzu
japan&maya got theology

IBT:
theo in
gunpowder too (mayas)
switch to PP, hope to get chemistry from GLib
washington: horse->duct
athens builds KT
mayas switch to sistine/leo
babs to leo
japs to sistine
we got salt next to atlanta, not online

IBT:
seattle: treb->court

30 BC (6):
boot to egypt, declare myself
capture avaris->temple
capture hiraconpolis->temple

IBT:
2 egypt archers in jungle
boston: horse->duct

IBT:
NY: rax->market
quakertown: horse->granary
buffalo: spear->harbor
greeks start leo

IBT:
exposed horse retreated
avaris queles&riots

30 AD (9):
meet arabs: iron&ivory, 12 cities, down gunpowder
switch avaris to settler (because it's big and has no duct, switch back if against the rules)

IBT:
booot from arabs
mayas have a lot of units near our E border
riot in NY, must have missed it


notes:
chicago&frisco could use court first
MM quakertown for granary
egypt pays worker for peace
education is known

Looks like the first war was quick and easy. The worker we got from Egypt must be moved to an Egyptian town and merged into the populus. It was OK to build a settler there as long as it isn't done with the intention of burning off all the citizens.

Signed up:
Meldor (On Deck)
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet
Northern Pike (Playing)

Ugh. :( I hate to do this on what should be my first round, but I'm going to apply the principle that's it's better to ask for a skip immediately than after wasting three days. I'm in feast mode, I've got the flu, and I have no idea when I'd be able to get to this one. My apologies, gentlemen.

OK, I have it an will get it tomorrow

The AI is SO predictable with city placement. The former Egyptian town of Hieraconpolis on the desert has salt. ;)

I don't understand how the riot in New York happened since we don't have war weariness.

There is a blatant rules violation in the foreign workers are performing tasks. Read the below from the rules:
3)... While they are in "slave" status, they may not used to work, but they must be protected from harm. Slaves may neither be traded nor bought.

We need to decide what the goal in this war with Egypt is. We really put ourselves behind in buildings and real military by pursuing the early war.

Where do we want the FP? I don't want to wait much longer to start it.

Since it is in the notes and not in the turn log can we assume that we are still at war with Egypt? If so, we should most likely not stop until we have control of their iron. I can't see the map, but IIRC it is in the mountains near us. Can someone confirm this?

I can check when I get home after work.

can we assume that we are still at war with Egypt?
we assume correctly
agree on pressing on, the iron isn't that close, but we can get it. more important is the incense imo.

I don't understand how the riot in New York happened since we don't have war weariness
neither do i, i usually scroll trough all cities. probably the late hour...

meldor appeared to have seen the slaves, so i didn't point it out after he mentioned it. the rules are hanging on the wall now, important stuff highlighted...

to FP: if we just want to build it, san francisco seems to be best. in case we want to move the palace, buffalo seems to be the best option.

50 AD (0)
I wake up a vet archer and kill a reg archer. I prefer to have the odds on my side and not let them attack. Three different Cvis know Education so the GLib is going to expire between turns. Even if we take all the Egyptian cities, it won't get us any iron. The Mayans took one source. There is a second iron up near Alexandria, but we would have to settle a city close to it to get it. We need iron to upgrade the horses. The nice thing is that there are only 3 iron resources on our landmass and we could control 2 of them and the one on the island to the south. That would set us up nicely until nationalism.
(I) We lose the archer. The Greeks take Elephatine, so we won't be getting the iron nor the incense. Education comes in and the GLib has expired.

70 AD (1)
The treb does nothing but our horses capture Asyut and a worker. The worker is merged into the city. We kill and archer and advance on Bybylos. I swap New York to a settler, we have to get that iron, which also means we need to get the Egyptian capital instead of the Greeks getting it.
(I) Not much. New York Settler->Market.

90 AD (2)
Two horses retreat and we only kill one spear at Byblos.
(I) Atlanta Courthouse->Market. Disease strikes our new city of Asyut.

110 AD (3)
Our horseman takes the last spear in Byblos on the first try and we take the city. The settler is rushing forward and our units need to take Cairo before the Greeks get it.
(I)New Orleans Worker->Harbor.

130 AD (4)
There is an Egytian Gally on the way to undefended Detriot. I swap it from a harbor to a pike.
(I)Washington Aqueduct->Market, Chicago Temple->Courthouse, San Fransico Temple->Market. Detriot Pike->Harbor. The Japanese complete Leo's, the Arabs complete Sistines.

150 AD (5)
MOving on Cairo.
(I) The Egyptians land an archer on the island. Washington Aqueduct->Market, Philidelphia Horse->Market.

170 AD (6)
Warrior comes out of New Orleans to kill the archer. We are going to have to get really luckly to get Cairo as the Greeks have a good stack next to it.
(I) The Greeks grab Cairo and our early hopes of getting iron. We will have to take it from the Mayans instead. Boston Aqueduct->Market.

190 AD (7)
(I) The Mayans have a big ol' stack of Java headed for the Greeks.Quakertown Granary->Market

230 AD (9)
(I)The Mayans declare on the Greeks. We might need to get in on this to get the iron. Buffalo Harbor->FP

250 AD (10)
Start gathering the horses so we can hit the Mayans and maybe get iron.

Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat (Playing)
LKendter (On Deck)
el_filet
Northern Pike (Hopefully felling better)

how come you guys are all so stingy with screenies? anyway, got it

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-350AD.SAV)

Pre-turn
ok, we want to join the war, but our military isn't that great, start to shift units to border
almost every town employs a specialist, try and fiddle
trade education for 22g and incense from Greek, lower lux to 10%
shifted FP to Atlanta, we will get it in 27turns

IT Japan declares on Maya

1.260AD
discover an egyptian slave working, this is against the rules, join him in Atlanta
there are now 7 horses to attack Abydos next turn

2.270AD
Greece now has iron to sell, want to wait for PP to come in 3, can't trade salt for iron, they have it in their own land
saw quite a number of Maya units running around, maybe we better hold this war off for a while to let them beat each other
building muskets as well for better defense
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mldr6270.jpg

IT exchange of units is nice, but we would just be fodder had we joined

3.280AD
nth much

IT PP is in, switch off research for now

4.290AD
trading time
Astronomy and 20g for PP, 3 contacts to Maya (since they all know astronomy and Japan knows them with PP contacts will be traded anyway)
Greece is broke, so sell Rome contact with Greek for 37g and 4gpt
sell PP to Japan for 499g and 4gpt
surely AI full steam for banking already, rather save the money for trade for now
rush harbor in Detroit so we get our iron

5.300AD
found Denver

IT markets in Washington and Boston are done, boost income to 104gpt

6.310AD

7.320AD
nada

8.330AD
Avaris finishes another settler, this is the best settler, worker pump since it grows so fast
banking is known now

IT Arabia declares on Maya

9.340AD nth
trade salt to Maya for Music theory, 18gpt and 99g
give Japan 120gpt and 800g for navigation
get banking WM and 140g for navigation, WM and horses from Arabia
finally banking, navigation to Maya for chemistry and 17gpt
PP and edu to Babs for 2 luxes
lower lux to 0% and we make 47gpt, tied for 20 turns now,
wasn't too happy to trade Maya salt, but this was the only way to get into the trading game.
3 Civs know metal

10.350AD
there is a settler in jungle to settle on the spot, income now 51gpt, we still pay a lot of unit support
we should try and get MT and then with Cav's try and beat Greeks, they seem to take a beating
FP is ready in 8
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mldr6350d.jpg

IMHO we should try and squeeze some more cities in and look out for the occasional razed spot

discover an egyptian slave working, this is against the rules, join him in Atlanta
I found one as well on my turn. I assumed that those were workers that were built out of an Egyptian city but I merged the one I found back into an Egyptian city.

If a worker that is built is going to work for free, don't build it. Slave labor is banned. Does anyone know how long that lasts? Avaris would make a good worker/settler pump and I suggest we use it for such, but the top population needs to be ours unless the Egyptian worker is going to be a paid for unit. Eygptian settlers are OK, as they retain their ethnicity when they settle.

Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter (Playing)
el_filet (On Deck)
Northern Pike (Hopefully felling better)

This is one the list for feast overload today.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-450AD.zip

I saw ThERat's suggestion for the new city. However, I will not place it. That city claims ZERO new squares. All of the squares will be claimed after border expansion. This is ICS play, and I refuse to play that type of game. I don't even like the placement of Denver as it gains very little tiles, but has bad cultural overlap with the Maya.

350 AD
I start pulling the horses back. Horses vs. muskets aren't winnable. No war will happen during my turns.


360 AD
(IT) The Arabs are building Magellan's.


380 AD
(IT) Babylon declares war on the Maya.


410 AD
(IT) Rome declares war on the Maya.


420 AD
(IT) Maya and Arabia sing a peace treaty.
We complete the FP. We gain about $30/turn from building it.


440 AD
(IT) Japan completes Copernicus.


==========================

Summary:
This was a turn to increase revenue with markets and banks. My only military push was upgrading most of the horses to knights. At least we won't get overrun if Greece or the Maya attack. We need to get more then token warriors defending our cities.

Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet (currently playing)
Northern Pike (on deck)

I saw ThERat's suggestion for the new city. However, I will not place it. That city claims ZERO new squares. All of the squares will be claimed after border expansion. I did that to decrease unit cost, maybe I got used to close city placements in my recent SG's. different style of play

I start pulling the horses backfunny part was that Maya had a musket but no salt before I traded them. They must have gotten that from another source. I merely left the horses there for blocking and to monitor the amount of units passing.

i can get it tonight, but won't be able to play. will probably have to wait until saturday. so if NP can play, suggest a swap.

OK, I think I'll be able to play a round tomorrow.

550 AD, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-550AD.SAV)

450 (0): I switch San Francisco to building a worker, since it's stuck at size six with a full food box, then make the same change in Buffalo for the same reason.

Boston bank --> musketman, Avaris worker --> worker, Detroit temple --> marketplace.

The source of saltpetre under Hieraconpolis runs out. We have another, but it's committed to the Maya.


460 (1): SF worker --> marketplace, Buffalo worker --> aqueduct.

We get a palace expansion.


470 (2): The Japanese have Physics. We can't afford it, of course.


480 (3): Avaris worker --> worker.


490 (4): Washington musketman --> pikeman.

The Arabs complete Magellan.


500 (5): Boston musketman --> pikeman, Seattle temple --> marketplace.

The Arabs are building Adam Smith.


510 (6): The Arabs and the Japanese now both have Economics and Physics. I think I'll wait on any deals until we're eligible to re-sell our horses to the Arabs, though.

Washington pikeman --> pikeman.

The Maya complete Bach.


520 (7): Atlanta marketplace --> bank.


530 (8): Washington pikeman --> pikeman, Boston pikeman --> pikeman.

The Arabs complete Adam Smith.


540 (9): 87 gpt and horses (valued at 44 gpt) to the Arabs for Physics. Physics and 13gpt to the Babylonians for Economics, furs, and wines, so we renew our Babylonian luxuries for another twenty turns. Physics and Economics to the Maya for Metallurgy, 28 gpt, and 7 gold, so we're now getting more money from the Maya than before despite having reclaimed our saltpetre.

New Orleans temple --> marketplace, Avaris worker --> worker.

A jungle burn outside Philadelphia reveals BG.

The Japanese complete Shakespeare and Newton.


550 (10): The Japanese are in the Industrial Age.

A couple of trade possibilities are still on the table. We could send the Greeks Physics for incense and chump change, although I'm not inclined to help them when we don't need the extra luxury. And we can afford to buy Military Tradition, if we don't mind the lack of a twofer. If we're incredibly lucky, the Greeks might get MT before Physics.

Avaris can produce a worker almost every third turn, even without a granary, provided the necessary fiddling is done.

The highest priority for our workers should be to clear the remaining jungles and marshes around Philadelphia, Seattle, and SF.

The Mayan-Greek war is still being fought, though the front hasn't moved.

Slow development:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-550AD.JPG

The Mayan-Greek war is still being fought, though the front hasn't moved.
This is the type of AI war I love. :D
I was seeing the same thing during my turns. Stacks of longbows killing each other. All those shields down the drain while we quitely improve our position.


Signed up:
Meldor (currently playing)
ThERat (on deck)
LKendter
el_filet
Northern Pike

Turn order from Lee is incorrect, it should be...

Signed up:
Meldor (On Deck)
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet (currently playing)
Northern Pike (sawpped)

Turn order from Lee is incorrect, it should be...
:sad: :sad:

Well I tried to be helpful...

No problem, I didn't mark them as swapped...

i got it
unexpected visitors came by, not sure i can play today

550 AD (0):
hate to see a city like SF not growing, so rush a duct
switch detroit to court
we'll have to rely on conquest to dominate the world, with 1/5 the culture of most opps, less then 1/6 of mayas, the culture leader
our army is weak to everybody, but with the ongoing war, i will build some infra in most towns

IBT:
SF: duct->market

560 AD (1):
greeks got MT&physics, babs have both too. will wait for more civs to have ToG.

IBT:
spot AC on the island
hierancompolis: temple->harbor

570 AD (2):
embassy in kyoto: size 12, 16 spt building cav; 6 muskets, pike, archer, 2 cannons; salt, iron, horses, 4 lux; all buildings
in mecca: size 12, 30 gpt building musket; 7 reg muskets, 2 cav; same 3 rec+4 lux; all buildings except uni

IBT:
trade WM with arabs for 43g
they galley i moved out so i wont forget it is sunk by pirateer (japan)
washington: musket->musket
philly: bank->granary
quakertown: bank->musket
avaris: worker->worker

IBT:
greeks lose some knights on abydos
boston: musket->granary
detroit: court->duct

590 AD (4):
babs got ToG
embassy shows: size 10, 15spt for cath; 10 muskets (2 reg); the 3 strat+5 lux; all buildings
buy ToG from them for WM, 122gpt+18g
get MT from greeks for ToG, WM and 383g
upgrade to cavs

IBT:
rome&mayas sign peace

IBT:
NY: bank->musket
avaris: worker->worker

610 AD (6):
declare on greeks

IBT:
lose cav&warrior
washington: musket->musket

620 AD (7):
kill hoplite&cav
found Cincinnati->harbor
capture rhodes->temple
merge worker
retreat on elephantine

IBT:
babs&mayas sign peace
japan&greeks sign trade embargo
kill cav, lose warrior after retreatig knight

IBT:
lose musket
lose asyut because i thought marsh need 3 movement :wallbash:
washington riots due to WW, move forward
boston: granary->cav
philly: bank->musket
atlanta: bank->rax
avaris: worker->worker
buffalo: duct->granary

640 AD (9):
recapture asyut->temple
up lux to fight WW

IBT:
trade cavs
byblos: temple->court
baltimore riots :aargh:

650 AD (10):
rush walls in asyut


notes:
upgraded some horses, disbanded conscript warriors
we should consider switching some towns to court and rush
2 slaves moving toward rhodes

Not quite sure why we started a war with Greece. Last time I looked at the game our military was pretty pathetic.

Now that I have loaded the game I really wonder why we started the Greek war. 6 cavalry, 1 knight and 1 horseman aren't exactly a quality attack force. Especially when we have so few defenders and no landing reserves. A lone warrior behind our lines could raze Washington!

Japan has at least 3 decent offensive units on the iron island. Can we please get a new galley build so that we can ship troops over there.

Looks like a major feast for me. I see it and it is in the queue...

Signed up:
Meldor (Playing)
ThERat (On Deck)
LKendter
el_filet
Northern Pike

end the war asap I would suggest, we have no support for this. If the Greeks come swarming into our land, we are in trouble. if they sign others like Japan we are doomed.

Agree with LK, I would have not started it as well. maybe with 20+ Cavs, yes

A lone warrior behind our lines could raze Washington!muskets in core are finished soon, i don't see any danger here. i'm more concerned about the islands, as you pointed out too.

i didn't like to start this war, but rhodes was putting heavy pressure on our cities. my objectives were rhodes and elephantine. our army should be good enough to take this two. my failure to capture elephantine makes it look bad, but we can't say how long the war between mayas and greeks will go on, didn't want to miss the opportunity.

650 AD (0)
Swap Byblos to a Rax, it can build a court later. Swap Boston to a Caravel. Also swap New Orleans to a musket and Detriot to a Rax so I can upgrade the units on the island, we need one on the island. I rush the musket in New Orleans, I am too nervous about losing our iron. We still need it for rails. I wake up a Cav and kill off an injured Greek Cav.
(I) Our Cav gets killed by a Crusader. A greek galley turns up off the island. Interestingly, it is coming from the east. Asyut walls->Rax, Detriot Rax->Musket, New Orleans Musket->Market

660 AD (1)
Kill the offending Greek Crusader with elite horse, no luck. Upgrade the pike in Detriot to a musket and move the warrior from New Orleans to Detriot to upgrade.
(I) One Greek Cav appears. Washington and New York Musket->Musket, Atlanta Rax->Cav, Quakertown Musket->Temple, Avaris Worker->Worker.

670 AD (2)
Upgrade warrior to MDI on the island. I think the island is in better shape now. I can only jion in one Greek worker at this time, otherwise the city will starve and we can't have that at all. The second Greek worker is given vacation until such time as the city will except them. Kill the Greek CAv but I can't cover our Cav. This is a losing bet.
(I) We lose our Cav and more Greek units show up. They also land a sword and archer on the island, good thing I went military there. I am going to have to go heavy military at the wrong time. Boston Caravel->Cav.

680 AD (3)
We lose the MDI but the musket takes out the sword and promotes. We then lose a Cav but take out a Hopilite. The Greeks will now talk and we take peace straight up. We needed that. I swap Atlanta and Aysut to non-military builds. I will let the muskets complete so we have some in the front line cities.
(I) Avaris Worker->Worker, Baltimore Harbor->Temple. We get a palace expansion.

690 AD (4)
I join the last Greek worker into Rhodes as the resistance ends. I then rush the Temple.
(I)Philly Musket->Temple, San Fran Market->Bank, Rhodes Temple->Library

700 AD (5)
(I)Rome and Japan ally against Maya. Washington Musket->Harbor,

710 AD (6)
(I)Maya and Japan make happy. Arabia and Greece sign an MPP!!! Avaris Worker->Temple

720 AD (7)
(I) New York Musket->Library, Detriot Musket->Musket

730 AD (8)
(I) This isn't good, the Japanese move into our lands on the island. Buffalo Granary->Temple, Denver Temple->Courthouse,

750 AD (9)
To keep the Japanese honest, we buy Magnetism for 830g and 81gpt. It is cheap, but I sell Mag to Maya for 23gpt. We are only down Democracy (due in 10) and Nationalism.
(I)Japan demand 17g, will he really throw away 81gpt for 17g? Yes. We lose a musket, but they lose a longbow and the AC redlines.We lose our furs and wines. It costs us 21gpt for the furs but I refuse to pay 30gpt for wines. Boston Harbor->Cav, Byblos Rax->Market, Philly Temple->Library, Atlanta Colosseum->Cav. We get another palace expansion.

250 AD (10)
Start moving the fast units down towards the caravel to take the rest of the island.

When we finish Democracy, Steam is next up. I think we have a good shot at ToE.

The object for th eJapanese war should be to get the reast of the island. That should be doable and we got most of a tech for free.

Nice play. :goodjob:

I think we have a good shot at ToE.

We can delay the revolt to democracy until we've gotten ToE, can't we?

got it, but that question is valid, delay anarchy until after ToE?

We can delay the revolt to democracy until we've gotten ToE, can't we?
Here is the rule...

7) Since people are the prime concern we want to be in only to forms of government, Republic or Democracy. We do not have to "beeline" for those techs, but it should be a goal to get them and swap as soon as strategically possible.

I think we might have 4-7 turns to give on this one. We can certainly wait until after steam. However, the turns we lose in anarchy may be made up by the increase in income and research after the swap.

[EDIT] If all we can pull is 50 turn research (until we get more Libraries and Unis up) then I don't see how it would hurt to go to Democracy as soon as we get it.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-840AD.SAV)

Pre-turn
:eek: we have only 2 muskets down south and I spot one LB, this can get very hairy
Washington has a scientist? change that and Cav in 5

IT :cry: we loose both Island towns to Jap Cavs, war with Japanese was not such a good idea after all
Arabia declares on Maya

1.760AD
send caravel with 1 musket and 2 cavs to island, our town now defended by a rifle

2.770AD
land those 3 untis next to Detroit

IT our caravel defeats against 1 frigatte, but loses to the 2nd, musket retreats Cav
a Japanese convoy is hading towards our land

3.780ADC
futile effort to try and take back Detroit, defeat a rifle but lose one Cav

IT our units are flushed out, babs demand 37g, sure

4.790AD
we hav 2 extra horses, Arabs have 2 iron to spare, we might want to trade once we have steam for RR, but not now

IT some good new, Babs declare on Japanese

5.800AD zzzz

IT Maya join Babs against Japan

6.810AD
nth much

IT 4 Japanese units land next to Denver

7.820AD
lose 2 Cavs trying to clear those units, still a 1hp Cav stands :mad:
now realise we still have 1 spice unconnected which we could have traded already :sad:

IT 1 hp cav dies trying to kill our warrior, Maya and Rome sign peace

8.830AD
end the war but need to pay 220g, better now than once we face more enemies
trade spices and 12gpt for incense with Maya (we need more allies rather than enemies)
reduce lux to 0%, but need taxman in New York and Washington make 325gpt now

IT we get democracy, nobody has steam yet

9.840AD
will stop here to let team decide whether we go and revolt now, we have 1694g in the kitty, good for steals
and anarchy. we ned that island back sooner or later for iron

war with Japanese was not such a good idea after alli also wouldn't expect them to throw away 81gpt...

i'd say let's revolt as soon as we can build rails for the faster workers (i guess with all the jungle we'll have coal; trading for iron a turn before we have steam is cheaper, isn't it?). since this will delay ToE anyway, we can revolt now, unless some important builds need to finish.

IMO take care of the revolt NOW.

I agree the Japan war was a mistake. The AI often throws a curve on island defense.

I agree that island war was bad, but the Japanese only showed an AC and 2 LB the whole time. They usually come with everything when they sneak attack. My Bad.

I would say revolt now.

next player can just play an extra turn now, since I stopped at 9

Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter (currently playing)
el_filet (on deck)
Northern Pike

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-950AD.zip

840 AD
GACK - I draw 7 turns on anarchy.

Well the Greek war was a total waste.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-648.jpg


850 AD
(IT) Greece and Japan ally vs. Babylon.


860 AD
(IT) Japan and Greece sign an MPP.


880 AD
(IT) Japan and Arabia ally vs. Babylon.


900 AD
(IT) The American Democracy is formed.


910 AD
Under normal cases I really prefer self-research. However, I want to stay laying a rail-net now. I give Babylon $1472 and $138/turn to get Steam Power.
I ship Steam Power to the Maya for Medicine and $12/turn.
I ship Steam Power to Greece for iron.

I forgot how fast industrial workers under democracy were.
(IT) Rome and Japan ally vs. Maya.


920 AD
Japan gets industry, and we need 8 less turns to complete it.
(IT) Greece and Maya sign a peace treaty.


930 AD
(IT) It isn't what I wanted, but war with the Maya has arrived.


940 AD
I don't have enough GPT to buy anything from the Maya, so I simply demand they leave. The Maya will have a problem that a military rail-net is being built. This still proves my theory that the AI seems to love to attack you just as the IA starts.

What sucks is the building push has to end as core cities swaps to military. We really need banks, libraries, universities, etc.
(IT) Babylon and the Maya ally vs. Rome.

==========================

Summary:
What we haven't figured out is how to we plan to get our GA?

This war must end ASAP or we are in deep trouble. We simply don't have enough attack units or bombardment units to fight a war. When getting up to 2 cannons is an improvement, you know you weren't ready to fight. NO allies against the Maya please.


Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet (currently playing)
Northern Pike (on deck)

Well the Greek war was a total waste.darn

war with mayas is really bad. we need some more infra. additionaly, with ToE, WS & hoover 3 wonders need to be built soon (don't think we have a chance to stay in demo without WS). then we need to conquer an exp wonder - won't be easy without arty units.

agree next player should get out of this war ASAP. talking about next player, i can play tomorrow. also have time on sunday, so if NP wants to play first it's fine with me. will claim it tomorrow if i don't hear from him until then.

Go ahead and play. I'll tackle MLDR05 first.

i got it...

sorry guys, after 3 turns i couldn't keep sitting on my computer. it's the first beautiful day in a while.

950 AD (0):
kill LB
switch st.louis to court
switch denver to rax (waste 20 shields)
some MM

IBT:
lose musket to knight in denver, mayan SoD arrives
philly: cannon->cannon
avaris: worker->worker
denver starves :( rax->walls
cincinnati: harbor->duct
greeks declare on mayans

960 AD (1):
kill LB
notice mayas got leader with their elite knight win, nothing i can do about it
disband warrior and rush walls in dover
most of our units stationed in dover, if it falls, we're in trouble
finish military railnet

IBT:
we win 7-1 in dover (only loss agains the only regular attacker :lol:)
byblos: court->walls
atlanta: cannon->cav
buffalo: cannon->cav
denver: walls->harbor

970 AD (2):
lose 2 cav against injured units in open land (RNG pays back)
get leader killing LB with elite musket and form army

IBT:
mayas move around dover
greeks prepare units to attack abydos
washington: cav->cav
boston: musket->cav
SF: cannon->lib
asyut: temple->court
avaris: worker->worker

980 AD (3):
switch philly to cath
for some reason crowded cities bother our people a lot more...
up lux, no lux available
switch quakertown to musket

IBT:
NY: musket->musket
byblos: walls->market
seattle: court->duct

IBT:
quakertown: musket->cav
avaris: worker->worker

IBT:
philly: cav->palace
atlanta: cav->cav

IBT:
washington: cav->cav

IBT:
boston: cav->cav
avaris: worker->duct
japanes start US

1030 AD (8):
capture abydos, 6 resistors->rax
join slave
we could afford indu now, but pay our whole economy

IBT:
NY: musket->musket

IBT:
atlanta: cav->cav


notes:
mayans will pay for peace
suggest we sign it, buy indu before and get san (doubt we can afford nationalsm)

Can we get control of iron before we stop the war or should we prepare to take our island back?

Signed up:
Meldor (On Deck)
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet
Northern Pike (playing)

Got it, although I have to play MLDR05 first.

1150 AD, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-1150AD.SAV)

1050 (0): We send horses to the Arabs for 103 gold and 12 gpt. This lets us boost the research rate up to 30%, Industrialization due in twenty turns.

We make peace with the Maya, receiving just their WM.

Baltimore flips to the Maya. It's probably just a matter of time until Abydos does so too.


1060 (1): We've upgraded and disbanded so thoroughly we have only two junk units to put into Abydos. This is false efficiency.


1070 (2): The Japanese have Electricity.

Some gratifyingly bloody mountain combat between the Greeks and the Maya.


1080 (3): The Maya and the Arabs make peace.

Byblos marketplace --> bank, Seattle aqueduct --> bank.

The Greeks are building Universal Suffrage.


1090 (4): Not much.


1100 (5): Our iron deal with the Greeks runs out. Our rail network is mostly built, and I have hopes of poaching the iron in neutral territory near Abydos, so I don't try to renew the deal.


1110 (6): The Babylonians make peace with the Arabs and the Romans, so they may survive, though they're down to one city.


1120 (7): Um, no. The Japanese take Nineveh and wipe out the Babylonians. Fortunately our obligation to send the Babs gpt ended two turns ago.

Asyut and Hieraconpolis courthouse --> aqueduct.

Some action on the Mayan-Greek front, as the Greeks take Heliopolis.

We get a palace expansion.


1130 (8): The Maya retake Heliopolis.

We get another palace expansion.


1140 (9): The Maya and the Romans make peace.

We discover Industrialization.


1150 (10): Zzzzzzz....

Essentially everything we're building is a factory pre-build, except for the Military Academy in San Francisco, the palace in Philadelphia, and the two courthouses in distant cities. The complication is that right now we don't have the iron for factories. The pre-builds will start completing in four turns, so we have that long so see if we can sneak a worker onto the iron mountain in neutral territory near Abydos to form a colony, though the Greek-Mayan war makes it unlikely. After that I suppose we'll just have to pay the Greeks' price.

I'm not sure what our plans are for the Military Academy build in San Francisco and the palace build in Philadelphia. The Academy will complete in five turns--fine if we want it for itself, a problem if it's a pre-build. The palace pre-build will complete in nine turns, so if it's meant to get us ToE we'll probably have to slow it down dramatically. I don't think we're likely to get Universal Suffrage in Philadelphia, since we're twenty-one turns away with three opponents working on it.

I've set the research rate to zero, on the assumption we'll be buying our techs from now on.

There's an Electricity-Sanitation twofer apparently available, but I haven't taken it because it might leave us without enough gold to buy iron from the Greeks.

The neutral iron:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-1150AD.JPG

I see it and it is in the queue

1150 AD (0)
Neither the Greeks nor the Mayans have RP yet. I buy Electricity from the Arabs for 237gpt. That goes to the Mayans for Sanitation , Free Artistry a 6g. No one has SciMeth, so I switch our 50 turn run to RP and will try and build up the cash needed to steal SciMeth when it comes in. I would like to hit the Greeks before they can get RP as well.
(I)Arabia declares on the Japanese. Greece declares on the Arabs.

1160 AD (1)
Move some troops around and get prepared to attack the Greeks. I would like to see them drop the MPP with Japan first.
(I) Watch the Mayans and Greeks fight.

1170 AD (2)
We can get iron if we take lux to 0%. I will have to decide next turn.
(I)Watch more units die.

1180 AD (3)
I can't wait any longer and I don't want to fight Greece and Japan at the same time. I buy iron from Greece for 1140g and 65gpt. Every thing but Aqueducts are swapped to factories. Our two farthest cities don't get them either, 100+ turns is a little long.
(I) We are still moving along.

1210 AD (6)
We get our first factories and start on some hospitals.

1250 AD (10)
Spent the rest railing and building factories. We will have to slow donw US We should be able to start on pure military soon. The good news is the the Mayans and Greek continue to kill each other off and waste tons of shields.

Turlte and build

Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat (Playing)
LKendter (On Deck)
el_filet
Northern Pike

ok, got it, I assume you meant we need to slow US since it is a ToE prebuild, am I right?

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-1300AD.SAV)

Pre-turn
scientific method is known already, but we got no money and thats gonna last for 10 more turns, well 237gpt for a tech is too much IMHO
a lot of cities run with clowns, needs to be fixed
raise lux to 10% fire many clowns and get to +2gpt
how on earth did philadephia become our capital? I can't find that mentioning in the turnlogs

1.1255AD
whereever factories are built swap if possible to banks, we need more money
MM

IT the Incan iron town got razed and we got no settler

2.1260AD
rush settler but it will be a bit difficult to get to that site

3.1265AD
still no access, we can trade furs for electricity with Rome
that allows us to lower lux to 0% and we make 38gpt with no clowns

IT by blocking mountains they start shifting the war into our land but free a passage for our settler :dance:

4.1270AD
shift settler towards iron spot
2 Civ's have scientific method now
our prebuild is almost done, wonder whether we can get the tech
well they would be insulted

5.1275AD
closing the choke helped units move off the iron for us to connect
Dallas founded

6.1280AD
feeling a little uneasy about all the troops moving through our land, better open the choke

7.1285AD
zzz, we still can't get scientific methods

8.1290AD
no tech for us

IT Arab and Japan sign peace
oh no Arabs start to build ToE

9.1295AD
tech is still doubtful

IT blocking one choke worked, now they are back fighting around the iron, it's good to let them waste tons of shields

10.1575AD
we get a ton of money back and now surely can trade, we make 322gpt
next player can trade scientific methods for 195gpt from Arabs, wonder prebuilt is ready
go for AT and electronics, since nobody has it
Atlanta has a prebuild for Hoover, we built some coal plant, sell them once we have Hoover
we should try and get stock markets as well

our new iron town
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/meldor61300.jpg


IMPORTANT, LK, CHANGE OUR RESEARCH TO ATOMIC THEORY BEFORE THE IT

how on earth did philadephia become our capital?

Ugh. I haven't looked at the last two saves, but apparently the palace pre-build in Philadelphia was allowed to complete.

Great work seizing the iron. :goodjob:

Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter (currently playing)
el_filet (on deck)
Northern Pike

The previous turn log stated that the capital was being built in Philly. It really was a better spot for it and I had wanted to move it earlier so I allow it to finish. This raised on total shields by a good number.

The 237gpt was for 3 tech and not one. Although I would have prefered to steal, it gave us all but SciMeth and no one had it (at the start of my turns). Once we have ToE we should be able to get tech parity and with the moved capital, we could even stand a chance of going after the Greeks or Mayans without the cities flipping faster than we can capture them.

Unfortunately, it seems the Greeks got RP befor ewe could hit them again, so we might well have to await tanks to take them out. One thing we should be mindful of is that we are going to most likely want to take the Greeks and Mayans completely out and we will want to do so as quickly as possible. Maybe less than 30 turns each. If we want to be able to not have flips too bad.

it won't be that easy, judging by the amount of units they threw at each other every single round, and Greek have quite a few infantry running about, while Maya still 'only' have rifles.

It won't be a stroll, maybe with some armies it might

It will be harder by the fact that we can't use combat settlers, but we have a pretty heavy war mongering crew.

The previous turn log stated that the capital was being built in Philly. It really was a better spot for it and I had wanted to move it earlier so I allow it to finish. This raised on total shields by a good number.

Oh, OK. :goodjob: Since we're at the point in the game where ToE becomes important I just assumed it was a pre-build.

I somehow must have missed that log about the capital shift. It's not bad anyway. I was just wondering when I looked at Washington and it was heavily corrupted :lol:

By the way, something seemed odd during my turns and I can't really find an explanation. Once we hooked up iron, in the city view we still had only 1 iron though we still had that deal to get another iron. Any explanation?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-1350AD.zip

1300 AD
I ship the Arabs $194/turn for Scientific Method. I prefer to keep some cash on hand. I swap to ToE wasting 116 shields.
I send Greece Scientific Method and $35/turn for The Corporation.

Washington has limited growth potential due to happy problems. I swap to Church to build that before the hospital. New York already has a clown, and it goes to Church.
I hate wasting any shields, but I swap Abydos to courthouse. It is suffering from heavy corruption, and the factory won't be that useful. It also badly needs happy help.
(IT) Japan and Rome sign peace.
ToE completes and we take the typical Atomic Theory and Electronics.


1300 AD
I ship Japan Atomic Theory for Replaceable Parts, Refining and $2705.
That former Egypt city of Asyut has rubber. :dance:
We also have 2 sources of oil. :dance:

With all that excess cash I will start upgrading muskets to rifles.
We pay the rip-off price and give Rome The Corporation, Scientific Method and Replaceable Parts for Nationalism.
I ship the Arabs Atomic Theory and spices for Communism, Espionage, WM and $10.

Atlanta swaps to Hoover Dam due in 8 turns.


1305 AD
(IT) Even I have a limit what I will give up in a demand. Japan comes alone demanding Electronics. I tell him to bite me. We are at war with Japan.


1335 AD
(IT) Japan declares war on Arabia.

Well my worst fear comes true. Greece and Japan ally against us.
The Greeks steal Miami as a lone cavalry kills an Infantry. :mad:
The needed infrastructure push comes to a grinding halt. All cities will start swapping to military as builds complete.


1340 AD
Miami is recovered.
I general hate signing a RoP. However, in this case I want all the Mayan help I can get.
(IT) Well I report some good news. We have completed Hoover Dam.


1345 AD
We lose the cavalry army to a 2 HP infantry in Rhodes. :mad:
(IT) Greece and Arabia sign peace. Greece declares war on Arabia. :crazyeye:
The Mayan RoP pays as they at least kill a few cavalry inside our borders.
The Arabs complete Universal Suffrage.


1350 AD
I give Japan $145 and sign a peace treaty. If the brought in the Maya it would be a disaster.
I ship Japan Electronics for Steel, Gems, WM and $4605.
All the Gems do is offset the lost war happiness from Japan. :(

==========================

Summary:
Important: The Maya go before the Greeks. The Maya may very well kill many of the injured units for us.

CRITICAL: Greece and Japan have an MPP. Make sure we don't attack any Greek troops inside their borders.
This war is useless to us with our current military, and I simply want to sign peace with Greece ASAP.

This war really sucks, as we don't have the artillery or the troops to effectively deal with infantry.


Signed up:
Meldor
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet (currently playing)
Northern Pike (on deck)

to palace jump: i wanted to give US a shot, with us staying in demo for the rest of the game (altough without US we probably won't). glad to hear it wasn't a complete waste.

I give Japan $145 and sign a peace treaty. If the brought in the Maya it would be a disaster.
I ship Japan Electronics for Steel, Gems, WM and $4605.
not caving was certainly the right decision

agree we should get out of the greek war.

i don't see me playing this one within a reasonable timeframe. skip please.

not caving was certainly the right decision
Well I didn't feel I had a choice as there was NO way I was going to risk losing Hoover.



Signed up:
Meldor (on deck)
ThERat
LKendter
el_filet
Northern Pike (currently playing)

It's in the queue, as Meldor would say. I'm wrestling with a monster turn in SGOTM6, but I'll try to fit this in before I finish that.

1400 AD, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-1400AD.SAV)

1350 (0): I micromanage a little. We're building infantry in a town at 44 spt, among other things. I suspect fluctuations in Love status are responsible.

I risk cav attacks on two redlined Greek inf, and both succeed (2-0).


1355 (1): We bombard and destroy two Greek cav landed next to Washington, and a roaming inf (5-0).

The Japanese have Combustion.


1360 (2): We bombard and destroy three Greek inf and a cav, losing one cav (9-1).

Philadelphia HEROIC EPIC --> stock exchange, Avaris aqueduct --> barracks.


1365 (3): We have to renew our furs deal with the Romans, so I send them Steel for furs, Ironclads, 10 gpt, 30 gold, and their WM.

We destroy three more Greek cav (12-1), after which Alex will talk. We give him 100 gold for peace.

The Maya take Elephantine from the Greeks in a bloody battle. They also finish off several Greek units redlined in mountains, which we bombarded but didn't care to attack.

Boston police station --> worker (full food box).


1370 (4): Atlanta MILITARY ACADEMY --> stock exchange, Byblos stock exchange --> infantry, Asyut marketplace --> bank, Avaris barracks --> infantry.


1375 (5): Washington stock exchange --> artillery, Philadelphia SE --> Wall Street pre-build, Denver aqueduct --> marketplace.


1380 (6): The Maya and the Romans form an MPP. The Romans were already at war with the Greeks, of course. The Romans then declare war on the Japanese.


1385 (7): The Arabs have Combustion. Since no twofer involving anything we want is or will be available (given how the tech chart works), I'll wait to see if the price falls.

New York SE --> infantry, Atlanta SE --> army.


1390 (8): San Francisco factory --> hospital, Asyut bank --> SE.


1395 (9): The Maya take Thessalonica, and then the Greeks take it back.


1400 (10): Three elite victories this turn didn't produce a Great Leader.

We can get Combustion from the Arabs whenever we want for 238 gpt and oil (valued at a rather stingy 70 gpt). It's just a question of how long we choose to wait in hope that the Romans will discover it too and reduce the price. As I've noted, no twofer involving Combustion and anything except Fascism is possible.

We can send the Greeks Steel or Electronics for incense, if we want. As on a previous round, my decision was not to help the Greeks when we don't much need the extra lux.

The Greeks and the Maya are still battering each other violently.

All the eligible tiles in the city radii of St. Louis and Miami have been lumberjacked. So have all Chicago's tiles, except for the three farthest to the southeast.

Philadelphia will complete Wall Street as soon as Enter is hit. It should then probably build the Intelligence Agency (unless we want this as a pre-build?).

Well, we're slowly building up our position. With no runaway civ out there, I imagine we'll win.

The killing ground:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-1400AD.JPG

Do we have a settler waiting in case Elephantine gets autorazed?

[EDIT]
Signed up:
Meldor (Playing)
ThERat (On Deck)
LKendter
el_filet
Northern Pike

I am glad the Greek War is over quickly. ;)

Now we can get back to hospitals, churches, and all the nice city goodies before working on pure troops.


With trying to fight as a democracy - Please build police stations in ALL cities for the WW help.

@Northern Pike - The 1400 AD save you posted is bad.
I tried D/L it twice, but Civ won't load it. Can you please repost.

do we want to stay a democracy?

what's our goal? SS or some wars?

do we want to stay a democracy?

what's our goal? SS or some wars?
I think the below variant rules answer this question.


7) Since people are the prime concern we want to be in only to forms of government, Republic or Democracy. We do not have to "beeline" for those techs, but it should be a goal to get them and swap as soon as strategically possible.
9) We must win by domination. Any other victory type is dishonorable. We would rather lose the game than take the easy way out.

I think the below variant rules answer this question.
:smoke: oh, ok

1400 AD, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-1400ADi.SAV)

1400 AD, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MLDR06-1400ADii.zip)

Do we have a settler waiting in case Elephantine gets autorazed?

No--but will it autoraze? It certainly got a cultural expansion while the Greeks held it.

IIRC,a city in size 1 and no expansion from current owner,also without wonders will get autorazed.

I am happy to report the new 1400AD save works. :)

Now we just need to wait for Meldor's feast overload to calm down.

Thanks for letting me know. :cool:

1400 AD (0)
Ok, first things first, I steal combustion from Arabia, they don't have oil. I swap Dalls to a temple and rush it. I then rush the factories in Miami and St Louis.
(I) Well, Elephantine doesn't autoraze. I think it will the next time that the Mayans take it. Dallas temple->library, Philly WallStreet->PoliceStation, Chicago Factory->Library, Seattle Arty->PoliceStation, Miami Factory->PoliceStation, Buffalo Hospital->PoliceStation, StLouis Factory->PoliceStation.

1405 AD (1)
Not much to do. Japan has flight so I steal it and then make the money back by selling it to Arabia for $2200
(I)Washington Arty->PoliceStation, NewYork Infantry->IntelAgency, Boston Hospital->Cathedral, Byblos Infantry->Infantry, SanFran Hospital->BattlefieldMedicine, Quakertown Hospital->Harbor, Denver Market->Bank, Cincinnati Aqueduct->Market.

1410 AD (2)
WE clean pollution. Rush a Library and Factory.
(I)Dallas Library->Courthouse, Atlanta Army->Army, Chicago Library->Bank, Abydos Factory->Market, Avaris Arty->Settler

1415 AD (3)
Leave the Army empty and park it. Clean more pollution. Rush some more buildings.
(I)Watch a Mayan rfile kill 3 Greek Infantry and produce a MGL before it dies and the MGL goes with it. Byblos Infantry->Infantry, Philly PoliceStation->Infantry, Hieraconpolis Factory->Market, Asyut StockExchange->Library, Buffalo PoliceStation->Library, Cincinnati Market->Temple,

1420 AD (4)
Not much to do. If you haven't noticed, I haven't been build any more arty. Please remember that we do not want to use it accept as defense.
(I) Abydos Market->Library, Seattle PoliceStation->Cathedral, Quakertown Harbor->Library, Avaris Settler->Cathedral

1425 AD (5)
Get to clean some more pollution.
(I) Rome and Greece make happy. Washington PoliceStation->Infantry, Dallas Courthouse->Market, Byblos Infantry->Infantry, Philly Infantry->Infantry, Asyut Library->Cathedral,

1430 AD (6)
Not much to do this turn.
(I) Quakertown Library->Colosseum, Cincinnati Temple->Bank

1435 AD (7)
I upgrade our one galley to a transport so when I steal from Japan , if it doesn't make it, we can make an island landing.
(I) Washington Infantry->Infantry, Boston Cathedral->Colosseum, Byblos and Philly Infantry->Infantry, Atlanta Army->Army, Chicago Bank->Rax, Buffalo Library->Bank

1440 AD (8)
I get to clean up two pollution spots.
(I) Abydos Library->Bank, Seattle Cathedral->Colosseum, Denver Bank->Library. We get a palace expansion.

1445 AD (9)
Well, the MPP with Japan and Greece is over, I try a steal from Japan and it fails. We are at war and we lost our gems. I then look up the Arabs and they have MassProd as well. I buy it from then for Oil, WM and 1466g. I load up the transport and drop off two infantry and four Cav next to Detriot. Let's see how they fair. I go ahead and start research on MotTran due in 13.
(I)Five Cav and a marine either retreat or die attacking our stack, we lose one Infantry and th