The administrative positions in the current nominations cycle are:
Chief Justice
Judge Advocate
Public Defender
Chief Elections Official
City Naming Official
Chief Polling Standards Official

The orginal intent of the alternate government was to make these positions allowed to hold another office, as they are generally boring positions.
So should we?

One Office One Citizen is a firm principle. However, we could make City Naming Official a part of the Vice President. WE could also make Chief Polling Standards Official a responsibility of the Judge Advocate.

One Office One Citizen is a firm principle. However, we could make City Naming Official a part of the Vice President. WE could also make Chief Polling Standards Official a responsibility of the Judge Advocate.
I agree, except according to this poll:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112690
it is the president who is in charge of city naming.

But that is a good idea
Lets make those other positions optional, and if they arent filled the CJ takes place of head election official and judiciary acts as elections office. Also the JA will be in charge of the PSC

Two words: "Hell No."

Let the President appoint someone to handle the City Naming Commission, we need more jobs that the newer players can do.

If we can really kick the City Naming Commissions sorry end if they betray their mandate and responsibility in handling this simple unskilled job.

If we can really kick the City Naming Commissions sorry end if they betray their mandate and responsibility in handling this simple unskilled job.

Simple enough, set it up to where the Naming Commision Official and the Election Officials can also be removed by the President.

Simple enough, set it up to where the Naming Commision Official and the Election Officials can also be removed by the President.
how about the election officials must be removed with 2/3 judiciary members

how about the election officials must be removed with 2/3 judiciary members

Because elections have nothing to do with the Judiciary, who are tasked with upholding and interpreting the constitution.

We could also make it to where a vote by the citizens can remove an appointed citizen also.

Because elections have nothing to do with the Judiciary, who are tasked with upholding and interpreting the constitution.

We could also make it to where a vote by the citizens can remove an appointed citizen also.
wouldnt that be a CC?

well city naming comission should die as a concept, the office is too small, and it adds bureaucracy that sows failure and discontent.

wouldnt that be a CC?

In the case of an elected official, no it would not. It would be an impeachment.

However, in the case of an appointed official, things change. Anyway, all of the appointed officials won't have very powerful jobs, and I doubt were going to see them removed for anything except an absence.

well city naming comission should die as a concept, the office is too small, and it adds bureaucracy that sows failure and discontent.

We need someone to do it, better to let a newer player learn the ropes of an office, rather than having one of our other officials waste there time on it.

City naming is that critical, and it need to follow the DP, so that we get rid of wasteful red tape. 'City naming is clearly a Presidential area, and needs to carry consequences if the naming list is not followed to the letter. Otherwise, the city naming official will become

A) the Presidential fall guy who can leave with no consequence

B) A sort of autonomous pest with nothing to lose that discriminates based on preference, and simply leaves the office if confronted.

Please apply euthanasia on the City Naming Office, it is not worth keeping.

City naming is that critical, and it need to follow the DP, so that we get rid of wasteful red tape. 'City naming is clearly a Presidential area, and needs to carry consequences if the naming list is not followed to the letter. Otherwise, the city naming official will become

A) the Presidential fall guy who can leave with no consequence

B) A sort of autonomous pest with nothing to lose that discriminates based on preference, and simply leaves the office if confronted.

Please apply euthanasia on the City Naming Office, it is not worth keeping.

What red-tape? It will just be a single guy who posts a list of City names inside of the turnchat instruction thread. No discussion needed. He/she may make mistakes from time to time, but it's not the end of the world, you can always re-name cities later on.

We have seen that take place before, no, let the President handle this, so no mistakes are made. We could make other more interesting jobs for newbees, much more interestng.

We have seen that take place before, no, let the President handle this, so no mistakes are made. We could make other more interesting jobs for newbees, much more interestng.

If the president does handle it, they appoint any person they want to, including themself or there VP.

Good, then we agree the President goes down if the naming issue is not handled by the rule of the law, evidence here is self-evident. Fall guy or no fall guy.

No.

The top three are elected officials, not admin by any stretch.

The bottom three are pure admin. I don't care who does it.

-- Ravensfire

Well, someone must be legally responsible in the admin positions, and that has to be an elected member, I would say President runs Naming, JA runs polling and CJ runs elections.

Let's not make this too difficult.

The concept for the non-elected positions was going to be "volunteer", same as always. There have been calls to make these "official" positions, so the President should make the volunteer official, by appointment.

Contrary to some people's personal feelings on the matter, city naming is not something for which someone needs to be strung up by their thumbs if a mistake is made. Names are trivial to correct, all that needs to be done is the citizen who wants a correction posts in the naming office thread that the name is incorrect, an instruction gets posted, and the DP takes care of it next opportunity.

Deliberately suborning the naming process by a citizen who happens to be running the naming office is an offense by that citizen, not by the official who makes the appointment. We need a CoL or CoS entry detailing the procedures to be followed, that's all.

The idea is to allow the purely admin positions to be held by anyone. This means the Judiciary are just like any elected office and may hold only one elected position, and the others, not being elected, can hold an elected office or even another non-elected position. In the same way, a mayor may hold any other office.

Well, I suggest we leave "volunteer" on the naming of cities and let it be a Presidential Office. No need to make 10 cities named per Term a full office, when the President needs to do the work anyways. I do not like the idea of repeating old mistakes, that is a very twisted thought. However, I volunteer for the new office: Inquisitor of the Realm, where I will point out mistakes and make wrongdoers suffer horrendously.

Provo - you've had that mastered for quite a long time, I assure you of that.

The solution is simple, and you actually stumbled upon it. The blind squirrel theory proves true again. You assign the administrative tasks to the President, and allow them to delegate as they see fit.

Authority may be delegated, responsibility cannot be.

-- Ravensfire

LOL, so I am a blind squirrel to you Ravensfire :) It seems you never cease to insult me. [writing down a note for future reference]

I will be submitting my application to the first and future Presidents for the honor of running the CNO. I too was unhappy with the way it was run, and would like to handle the matter in proactive fashion.

Well, then the President will be demolished if Donovan Zoi is making a mistake , and we need a law for rectifying violations of the new City Naming Law. Plus, I do not like the City Naming Office title, bad karma, too much "Black Smoke" there. Call it something else than CNO, CNO smells like a putrid corpse from the trenches of World War One.

The City Naming Law for DG6 was championed by yours truly, so I don't think you need to worry about me running afoul of its limits. Of course I need to be accepted first.

You will have to enlighten me on the CNO thing. If it's offensive enough, I can come up with better acronyms. What do you think of Establishment Pronouns Incorporated? :D

Actually , that is a great idea, and a most appropriate legacy of the inspiration of all this :D

Honestly, we should call it something including the office of responsibility and give the CNO functions also for Unit naming and Trans-provincial Geographic feature naming as well, in addition to handling the citizen honors since we need ready references we can use for discussing map strategy without looking at the save.

So DZ should head:

Presidential Institution for Naming and Titles (PINT).
This effectively covers cities, units, and geography covered by more than one province or geography not covered by a province.

PINT would represent a more positive association than any other substance...

A volunteer already? Cool, I wasn't expecting it to be so easy to find someone willing to put up with Provolution's daggers. Especially since it appears that vitriolic obfuscated English is the only language he's comfortable with.
:rotfl:

A volunteer already? Cool, I wasn't expecting it to be so easy to find someone willing to put up with Provolution's daggers. Especially since it appears that vitriolic obfuscated English is the only language he's comfortable with.
:rotfl:

I think my communication is quite clear here DS. And I saw no need to write what you did. I am sorry to say that DZ and me, as many others will not allow the same mistakes to take place again with no authority and responsibility linked in the naming process.

Ok, your writings on this topic are not obfuscated, I stand corrected. :p

However, let us review a few statements on the naming office, shall we?


If we can really kick the City Naming Commissions sorry end if they betray their mandate and responsibility in handling this simple unskilled job.



B) A sort of autonomous pest with nothing to lose that discriminates based on preference, and simply leaves the office if confronted.



However, I volunteer for the new office: Inquisitor of the Realm, where I will point out mistakes and make wrongdoers suffer horrendously.



Well, then the President will be demolished if Donovan Zoi is making a mistake


Let's see, you're still carrying on a crusade against someone who isn't here any more for one thing. I don't see the point in making wrongdoers suffer, especially for reversible mistakes. Just repair it and go on. And "demolished" is an interesting choice of words, how do you propose to do that?

If we didn't have DZ as a volunteer, I would apply the simplest kind of answer to the squeaky wheel syndrome. If someone complains about a problem, assign them to that problem. If they accept, then they're the solution and no longer have a basis for complaint. If they decline, then the complaintant loses credibility through unwillingness to solve it. Hasta la vista complaint... :cool:

Let's stop this flamewar right now before it really starts to boil over.

Hopefully our beloved future President Elect will adhere to forum rules

Again, I was speaking in generics here, and we will not see the same mistakes take place as previous games. I will see to that, as my right as a citizen, and no one has the right to make me responsible for others mistakes.

This is not a crusade against someone who isn't there anymore, but a clear signal that similar mistakes will not be tolerated. This is a simple task, clearly linked to the Presidential authority as DP who will actually name the cities in game. Some players does not deem this that important, or take very easily on mistakes and see no need to correct them. At least Donovan Zoi has seen the need to do this thoroughly. Finally, we all know what kind of treatment that expects perpetrators, we have all seen the consequences and I will not be the one to toss the first stone, even my stone may be a bit bigger.

So every activity within the game itself must have an elected authority, as our esteemed Colleague Ravensfire pointed out. When DZ, Ravensfire and me agree on something, you should really consider it. Do not take too easy on city naming this game.

1 office per person.

The rule is very straightforward, one elected office per official. As the naming office, elections office, and polling standards office are not elected, those people may hold another office. The same goes for mayors and any other appointed office.

Chief Justice
Judge Advocate
Public Defender

No the Courts must be seperate for the executive. I belive other admin could be appointed by the president (or a prime minister just for the job of watching these people) but the ultimate responsability remains with the elected offical in charge. I don't think a vote by citizens should be able to impeach a offical. because our court system is based around all the citizens working as a jury anyway. the judges are there to make sure the accused gets to tell his side and have a fair chance before the people vote choose his fate.
If a citizen can just say "impeach the president Yay or Nay" then the people vote, its like lynching.

The rule is very straightforward, one elected office per official. As the naming office, elections office, and polling standards office are not elected, those people may hold another office. The same goes for mayors and any other appointed office.
why do we have unelected offices? Isnt that a bit... undemocratic?

Every democracy (and any other type of government above the tribal council) has bureaucrats.