Ah, shorthand.

Now, as I stated in the election, my platform is on the Rep path. We could do minsci for 50 turns to writing, with a quick fix to 30% lux for riot guide.

Now, thats just my vision for what I want to do. What do you, the people, want to do?

Reminder: I set the longterm queues, I don't choose what the order is. I think. I'm honestly not sure.

Also- this will include resources post-creation.

SaaM

Ah, shorthand.

Now, as I stated in the election, my platform is on the Rep path. We could do minsci for 50 turns to writing, with a quick fix to 30% lux for riot guide.

Now, thats just my vision for what I want to do. What do you, the people, want to do?

Reminder: I set the longterm queues, I don't choose what the order is. I think. I'm honestly not sure.

Also- this will include resources post-creation.

SaaM
well considering we have no constituion, im not exactly shur either ;)

I would like to see a path to republic, but get literature and map making(we are england) first... now I am not shur how we would use philosphy, is it possible to get republic with philosophy, or will the AIs already have it?

Well, that all depends on whether or not we have CoL. If the AI researches it first (which it never does...), we could try to get it. But Philo should most likely be used on Lit or Map Making. As were England, I'd assume the second.

SaaM

I fully back SAAM on running the Philo Gambit and switching to Mapmaking, then Literature. Following sufficient expansion and so on, we should go Republic.

As Consul, you'll be setting the general plans and strategy for us. Stating that we're running a minsci gambit for the lower techs, and have a goal of Republic is perfect.

-- Ravensfire

I agree that this is the type of goal to set, though not necessarily on the goal itself. :) We also need a strategy from the External Consul on whether any early wars are required, and from the Domestic Consul on what government we want the 1st switch to go to.

An aside, on C3C you can't count on using the same assumptions about what the AIs will research. It is possible to have an AI with CoL at the time you research Philosophy. At that point you can use "show the big picture", switch to the trade screen, trade for CoL, go to Science screen, select Republic, exit, and the free tech is Republic. This is the fast form of the Philosophy->Republic slingshot. There is another version too, if you get Writing first you can take a risk on researching CoL first and then Philosophy. It is costly if you fail, but yields a lead of both Philosophy and Republic if it works.

Sigh... no one else wants iron working/the wheel? If we're not on an island map, then map making will not be worth the chance of losing out on horses/iron simply because of our neglect.

Regent Man

I am personally a resource industrialist, and I openly supported your line. However, I do respect the election outcome based on the program posted, and negotiate within that framework. I can very well live with the Philosophy gambit and Map Making, and then rush for Republic and then the strategic resources. It was not what I called for, but a good number two alternative for me.

I'll just chime in along with everyone else and say that going for Philo/Republic is the way to go.

I doubt we could get to philsophy before the AI's get there. Almost every technology that lies in the path of The Republic of Monarchy is useless. The way I see it we really have two options:

Literature: The AI never researches this one, and the GL could save us these discussions for awhile.

Currency: This one is alittle bit more risky, for about the same gain. Marketplaces are a huge bonus, and the sooner we have them the better.

When I'm playing Emperor or higher, I head straight for literature. 9 times out of 10, I get the GL, which generally gives me Monarchy or Republic.

We certainly can get to philosophy first (especially if we don't sell writing around), but it is not clear what the free tech should be. I managed to get republic in my current demigod game, but the barb setting happened to be no barbs (otherwise I wouldn't have taken the chance). It's particularly annoying if someone gets philosophy from a hut.

Another benefit to the republic route is that we are more likely to get those techs first, while the AI is more likely to research iron working, HBR, mysticism (and prerequisites), etc. Literature and currency, as Strider suggested, are often easy to research first. Map making would be the first thing the AI will probably research once it gets writing.

Since we are playing the English, we automatically get Alphabet and Pottery. Writing and philosphy is just 2 tech away. So it is possible for us if we do it right.

I say go for the Great Library....it will help us a lot time to come..:D

- TP

Now I can see we have a divide here. I am glad everyone agrees (or at least no ones posted agaisnt them :P ) on the path.

But, we need to choose what we want from Philo (remember: IF WE GET IT FIRST)

Lit, Map or Rep (using the CoL gambit)

Now, granted, this may not come into play until creation, but its still nice to think about it.

SaaM
Dean

Who hopes to open other Ivy League colleges througout whateverweare. (Look for Yale , located in Oxford)

Map Making, Seafaring all the way

I would love to know where our horses and iron are. It would be quite a shame to lose out on them by gambling to get a free tech. Getting republic early won't matter if we don't have iron nor horses to back up our word. Let's analyze republic:

Say we succeed in the gambit and pull off the republic. Following an anarchy period very early in the game (where settlers are king) we now have a republic. But wait, look at what our seven towns can do:

We get one unit free per town. That's it. One. Every unit after that costs TWO gold. Our seven towns support seven units. We'll probably have seven workers at that time for our civ. There goes our support. Our explorers, defenders, and army all are sucking money out of our treasury. We have to lower the science rate to 30% just to break even. But wait, getting up to size six requires happiness. Our tax rate goes up, lowering our science rate. Tech research is slowed; we fall behind. Enemies come at us with knights. We only have... spears, because we thought republic early on would be cool, we didn't get iron working, so Babylon found our iron and took it from us. All this in the name of philosophy. Let's build a strong empire, locate our resources, and make the transition at a time where it would be beneficial.

I'd go for philosophy then Republic. Having the Republic will help us develop commerce, a bonus since we have the commercial trait. Having more commerce will certainly help us speed research.

I agree that discovering iron & horses is important. However, I find it's usually fairly easy to trade for these. I also agree that mapmaking is important; but our rivals will probably research this for us, so again we should be able to trade for it.

One reason why we might prefer to research iron or horses early is because in Conquests the resources tend not to be distributed uniformly. There's a very good chance that we won't have one, or both, of these resources, and it would be good to discover that as soon as we can. However, I would start the game assuming we're going to have to fight (or trade) to get these resources, and plan accordingly.

Its on emperor and looking at the start, there is no way that we should not get to philosophy 1st.

Contacts are important, and that shouldn't be a problem seeing as we are seafaring.

I suggest thinking about trying to cut writing down from 50turns. I say this because we have a great start, with a lot of commerce. By doing things such as building a road before mining/irrigating.

by the time we come around to researching philosophy we should have about 3 cities in which case as long as we won't too late getting writing, we can use scientists to make sure we get it first.

i think the GL is a great route to go down, as it frees up so much gold for the military

Sucha_Soorma's right - any attempt at the philo gambit will fail nine times out of ten at this level, since the AI will have the upper hand, and will trade like crazy with itself. I should know, since my own philo gambit failed in my COTM game (this month it's at monarch level).

I do like writing as a first, tech, though, given that it's very valuable, and therefore, good for an expensive sale. From there, I'd either go for iron working for swords, or for mapmaking to take advantage of our seafaring trait.

I always play on Monarch and always get the Philo Gambit... Heck most of the time I can get republic from free on the gamibt...

We can try. I mean, we've some BG and some wines. Hopefully we'll have some hills from the mountains. We may be southern.

I think we should try for the Philo gambit. Who knows what our neighbors (should we have them) may research?

Writing->Philo->What we assess we need.

SaaM

No doubt, map making. A quick advance to the world equator requires quicker movement, and Map Making and light house is the way to go. We are in the far far South East.

Could you please post a poll soon, Consul SaaM? The Office of Commerce needs to start planning soon. :)

Full contact means nothing if our enemies are walking through our cities. T'would be nice to be able to defend and retaliate with mobile horses or strong swordsmen.

I think we got ample opportunities for iron and horses with this terrain, with less luxes and so on I would go for Iron and horses. But I think we should strike for the Philosophy Gambit and end in Map Making and plan long term for Republic this Term.
Then, following Map Making, we should trade for as many strategic resource techs as possible, or research them cheap. But we badly need the Lighthouse, as we are stuck in the far southern corner of the Map. Transport speed will be essential this game.

I just got done playing a SG as America, on Emperor. The variant required Republic for the intermediate government, and I was very worried about that. The unit cost balanced very nicely with the commerce from Republic, though it was a bit hair-raising at first to leave the core undefended. After a switch to Democracy we finished the game with a domination win, and 20K gold in the bank. The moral of the story is that it is possible to build an army and use it effectively in Republic.

Octavian, i think you have mis-read my post. I have said that on this level we SHOULD get philosophy first no matter what, unless we are just plain rubbish, as we seem to have a very nice start.

By using specialists we can pretty much guarantee philosophy and a nice early scientific lead. But if we need them SAAM is going to have to push the agenda to the other leaders to make it happen.

Alright. I am going to do a Y/N/A poll in a few min for my proposed Writing-Philo-Assess The Situation path.
I wont be in today. So, discuss all you'd like, but I wont see it until for another 10 hours or so.

SaaM

Poll is up!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=113580