Difficulty = Sid
Civilization = Byzantines
Map = Pelago
Barbs = off
World Size = Standard 80% water.
Win=Conquest, consolation prize: any win.
Civs opponents:America, China, Arabia, Zulu, Mongols, Egypt, Aztecs.

Variant: Soft 6CC. We can capture cities and abandon before turn ends (for Armies).

Why 6 cities you say. Because I want a 5CC with the possibility for a 6th throw away city for healing/defense on island invasions. I think this might be doable. If you doubt the power of dromons check out this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112402). I think if we adopt an early AW stance and use the dromons and hopefully TGLighthouse to block AI expansion and keep them isolated we can take a tech lead and invade with superior troops. Also, dromon bombardment can produce nice landing spots for hit and run tactics on coastal cities.

Mark
Bed Head 7
Percy
Aggie
Metor Punch?
dl123654

A sid based variant? Where is my insanity smilie? ;)

Since I haven't even beaten Sid I am not signing up.

Aw come on. This will not be as hard as some straight up Sid games. We rig a few things in this game that really reduces the dificulty. We will start isolated on a fairly lush island with fresh water. Start with alphabet monopoly. Start early wars with everyone really slows them down. The real question is can we invade islands with relatively limited production capacity.

Mark, I would normally join, but my time is severely restricted these days...

I too am full up on games. I saw Lee's new game before this one. Adding both would be bad, especially with a hard sid game.

This is totally off topic, but one SID game I would like to try someday is a Standard Pangea with 60% land and only 2 AI.

Well I will give this one bump. This seems to scare people but really if you can play diety you can play this. I'd be happy to reduce to small world if people would feel more confortable. I'm almost sure we can get some sort of win on this but whether we could get conquest I'm not sure. I beat this as AWS-OCC as the Byzantines and it was one of the easiest games I've played. If you get out early to start wars and use dromons to prevent contacts and stop expansion you can pretty much stop the AIs dead in their tracks.

I am short on time currently, but I'll join. Standard doesn't scare me none. And now you'll at least have one player. So I'll inspire others to join, but this probably still won't fill up so fast to give me undue problems.

Alright I've got one brave soul. This will be a cake walk.

This needs a bumpin'.

I read your "Berserk Byzantines AWS-OCC" so I know getting a win here is possible, but I am not ready to start my SG career just yet, though I hope you have better luck filling this roster soon, because it will be a good one to lurk!

Where's your courage, SG community?!

I'll be a backup if you can't find any good players :D .

yeah, i humbly present myself =P
i have never ever tried playing anything harder than emperor, so my main goal in joining would be LEARNING, plus i'm very curious about the dromons. when i tried to make the world bow before my mighty fleet, i turned out unable to EVER successfully land a lethal bombardment.
anyway, if you feel like babysitting, count me in, otherwise, i'll lurk in the shadow =)

Based on your other game its possible given the map. So you might get more interest if you post a few maps. Based on the map I might be interested but still waiting on my computer though.

I'm thinking victory is very possible because it's a custom map. Although I spoke too soon and cannot play this one :blush: .

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_4000BC_fish_grasscow.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_4000BC_grasscow_volcano.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_4000BC_plainscows.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_4000BC_wines_grasscow.jpg

Some decent looking starts, but the two best (#1 and #3, which is more obvious if you do a little exploration) are on islands with other civs, so it is a no go, I would think. But these starts are at least something to look at.

How bout this one, :lol:.

Well Bed Head7 is keeping this alive, thanks I had lost hope. Percy is in. Meteor and dl123456 let me know. I would like to start with 5 people. Don't worry about map it will be good but unedited. Nice starts Bed but we do want to be alone so 2 and 4 are possible. As you know being with 1 other Sid civ on an Island is about the hardest start possible. I will also generate a few and post tonight.

Yes, I realized that 1 and 3 wouldn't work, but at least wanted people to see that we would have a relatively cushy start. Though that would have been reinforced for both if I had shown all of the food bonuses just out of view in those starts.

If you don't mind skipping me in the first round then I'll join, still waiting on my computer to return.

As for starts I would take Meteor's start :lol: .

If I had to choose from bed's starts I would take 2 as long as we are alone.

Mark1031, I have been thinking. I can't organize my own games anymore because that is too time consuming, but why not join this one? If you you don't mind the fact that I am not always around to play (I am there to comment during the week, but unable to look at the save) then I gladly join...

Basically my schedule looks like this (all CET):
-Able to play on monday evening and maybe wednesday evening
-Able to comment monday through friday
-Able to play on saturday morning
-not around from saturday rest of the day until monday morning

Next week I will be away on Thursday and Friday though...

No problem Aggie I would love to have you. I do not need to rush and I prefer discussion. It is good your life has less time for civ (but not no time :mischief: ).

OK, then I comment on the starts!

I like bed_head7's first start only. The 2nd one has a volcano and the 4th no cow. The 3rd one is nice but forces us to leave the ocean as seafaring civ. I hate not starting at rivers, so that rules MeteorPunches' one out.

The fourth has a cow in the fog, to the NE. You should be able to see it if you look carefully. The first start is super nice but the Americans are not far off.

I have a start that looks good. alone on water with cow and 3 lux on the island including ivory :) . There are really only spots for 4 good cities and a 5th crappy one. However I used cold, dry, 3mil, 80%water so there is no large island with all good land. I like these settings because it denies the AIs good land. Let me know if you think yours is better Bed Head7 otherwise I will start with this. I would really like ivory.

Mark1031, sounds good. I am keen to try such a start.

OK I started here.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-4000BC.JPG

4000BC: Found in place and start currgah.
3750: Curragh done start another.
3500: Meet Japan they have mas, wheel and CB but are down Alpha and BW. No trades w/o alphabet which I am saving. declare war.
3300: meet America. they are up pot masonry which we badly want but alphabet doesn't quite get both, I will wait to see if they are alone to declare.
3250: Meet Arabs on same isle as America they are up same as Abe no trades declare on both America and Arabs.
3200: 4th currgah in start warrior.
3000: warrior->warrior.
3000->2750: More exploring. Settler started.

We have 4 currgah's, 3 warriors for exploring and MP and are doing a settler. OK you may be looking for where I said this is AW. I did not and it is not. I know some dispute whether starting "war mode" with the AI actually slows them down. I think it does eventually although it takes a while on Sid. This is the goal in any case. I would like to save alphabet to trade for a while and would like to do this only to an isolated and backward civ. This is to slow down the AIs path to Philo and/or MM. We do need at least pottery soon maybe also CB for temples and temple prebuild in the capitol. If you meet a civ that is backwards and isolated go ahead and trade to them for all you can get. Anyone you meet that is together with another AI on an island or is very advanced do not trade but declare war. My plan would be to do Philo @ max after writing and then take MM as the free tech and build TGL. Then research lit and do TGlibrary. The 2 TGLs are key and the first one will be hard to get. I think we should do it in the capitol by merging workers as I do not see a good spot on fresh water and coast for a prebuild city. I would really only build workers and currgah's at the moment. If we time a city to produce a harbor as soon as we get MM we can upgrade the currgah's for a quick fleet. I would say our goal should be to keep the AIs isolated and pound the tech leaders until we can get the troops together to think about how to go about taking out cities. Remember the goal is conquest with only 6 cities. I think we can stay in an AW stance for a long time as the dromon will protect us and when we let an AI get peace it will expand onto the smaller islands and meet its neighbors vastly increasing the tech pace. Well, I don't mean to sound dictatorial this is just the plan I would follow (from a game I played linked in the first post), let's discuss, I do think we need to be on the same page and to have a focused effort particularly to get the lighthouse on Sid. I think the fun will be figuring out how to invade islands on Sid with the production of only 5 cities.

City placement is also important. I see a second city on the red or blue dot (I favor red as it picks up the wheat faster and can pump workers for the capitols GL push) and a third up in the lush cow pasture to the North. Unfortunately we have lots of desert but then so should the AI. Don't know about cities 4 and 5. Six I was thinking of saving as a throwaway for island invasions.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-2750.JPG

Bed Head 7 UP Take 15
Percy On Deck Take 10

Alright, I got it. I'll get the turns posted Sunday morningish at the earliest. If that is a problem, Percy and I could switch.

Am I still in the roster? If not can I join? I'll be back on Monday with my computer.

2670 BC (2) - Meet Egypt, who shares an island with Japan. Declare war.

2510 BC (6) - Found Adrianople next to the wheat.

2230 BC (13) - Found Caesarea next to the eastern cow.

I didn't really know what to build other than curraghs and workers. We still have alphabet monopoly, but I never made any trades. My exploration didn't go all that well either. With all the curraghs we have, I should have uncovered more territory, and another contact would have been nice.

Not much interesting to show, so here is Caesarea.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_2150BC.jpg

Looks good.

Percy UP
Aggie ON Deck

@dl123456. Yes you are in at the end of the roster. Good you have your puter back.

I'm back from a long weekend away. I can only play tomorrow evening and then not until Monday. I will now read through the thread and then maybe comment on the game.

Percy might need a PM. He hasn't been here since signing up.

Aggie why don't you take it and I'll see what's up with Percy.

OK, I got it. I have read the turnlogs and noted your comments Mark1031. We want both TGL's, I fully understand that one. I agree with the strategy and really am exited about this one. This one is for tomorrow night.

wooooooow sorry guys =)
i expected to get told when the roster was complete... i'm so sorry for the delay. i'll be ready to play once Aggie is done.
all my apologies again.

okay, so... i'll take the game when it is over. however, please allow me to remind all of you that i have never ever played higher than emperor. in other words: i need some HEAVY coaching from you guys ;)

You are lucky that we only will have 6 cities at the most then. Micro-management will be easier this way, but still critical. Just like trading (and knowing when not to trade). I'll play and post before midnight CET.

hehe i registered here because i CAN micromanage 6 cities. i just don't have the patience to MM an empire of 20 cities ^^

IHT: We are playing AW? Whatever we did, we are doing quite well so far. Mono on Alpha and 11 turns from Writing. Adrianople switched to worker.

IT: Constantinople: curragh->curragh.

Turn 1 (2110 BC) Egypt and Japan know Alpha :(

Turn 2, 3 (2070, 2030 BC) :sleep:

IT: Adrianople: worker->worker.

Turn 4 (1990 BC) :sleep:

Constantinople: curragh->settler.

Turn 5 (1950 BC) Caesarea is size 2 and unhappy. I change it to scientist, with science at 0% now. Worker in two in that city.

Turn 6 (1910 BC) :sleep:

IT: A curragh sinks, Caesarea: worker->worker, science to 10%.

Turn 7 (1870 BC) :sleep:

IT: Arabs start ToA.

Turn 8 (1830 AD) I start a suicide run.

IT: Americans start ToA and curragh sinks :( Adrianople: Worker->worker.

Turn 9 (1790 AD) :sleep:

Turn 10 (1750 BC) We have Writing next turn. Next up is Philo at max, with Map Making as free tech. Don't make peace with the civs we know and don't sell Alphabet or Writing at any cost!!!!
So in short: keep on following Mark1031's guidelines.
And after the settler in Constantinople next turn: switch from the lake back to the oasis. We now make one commerce more with settler still in 1.
We may need to switch Adrianople from a worker, because it will produce before it grows.

Where to settle? 2 tiles SE of oasis south of our capital? (N-NW from cow)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-1950BCmap.jpg

I had the same thought on the next place to settle. Of course, it is really going to suck as a city until we get it a border expansion.

Looks good so far but we need to meet the remaining civs. I am a bit worried about getting the lighthouse. Even if we can't get it we should try to get MM as soon as it is available. We really need to meet the last civs before Philo comes in to see where we stand. If Egypt/Japan get MM we could make peace with the smaller and trade Philo and $$ for MM and then take lit as our free tech to do the library if lighthouse fails (which it will if they get MM before we get philo). The main thing will be to get our dromons out quickly to supress AI contacts and expansion so we should also try to have a harbor prebuild ready to upgrads currgahs. Also, if you meet a backward civ you might as well give Alphabet for a few things we could use like pottery/CB/BW/wheel before declaring. Finally, when we are ready for a wonder run don't forget to have some workers ready to merge to max size. Oh well not too much to worry about :lol: . Once the fleet is ready it will be less tense.

ok, it's a got it. i will maybe play it in about 2-3 hours, it will be done for sure in 24 hours or so anyway.

IHT:
well, everything looks ok for me, obviously... i think i'll need to carefully monitor Adrianopole and Caesara to time the growth with the worker.
i press the red button.

IT: nothing

Turn 1 (1725 BC): we get Writing, i start Philo @max, -2gpt, in 30 turns.
Constantinople: settler => curragh. switch Adrianopole from worker to curragh. i don't really know what's the plan with the city, it can be a warrior/worker 4-turn factory at size 3-4, wasting 2 food. i'll try it, flame me in case it's stupid. more exploration.

IT: lose a curragh in treacherous waters.........

Turn 2 (1700 BC) one curragh sees black borders... i can feel the Zulus over there ^^ another one spots pink borders, looks like our Inca friends. i hope the two curraghs won't sink.

IT: wow... seafaring is not what it used to be... both curragh sink.

Turn 3 (1675 BC) philo is now in 43 turns =S new city will be created in 2 turns. i need to create a scientist in Caesara for one turn for the MP to arrive.

IT: Zulu talk to me anyway, they are as advanced as the rest and i dunno whether they are alone or not, so i declare without trading.

Turn 4 (1650 BC) dunno what to do with a worker near Const, so i send him to help roading through the hills

IT:

Turn 5 (16250 BC) Caesara: worker => warrior. Nicaea founded, starts on warrior. it will get the oasis in 5 turns due to culture in Const...

IT: Const: curragh => warrior, Adrianopole: curragh => curragh
Egypt starts Artemis, one curragh which was seeing the very edge of a border sinks, but i'm pretty sure it was the Zulus'. suicide runs are really suicidal in Sid.

Turn 6 (1600 BC) nothing...

IT:

Turn 7 (1575 BC) more exploring, more wasting time with workers... i really dunno what to do with them, i hope i'm not doing too bad =/

IT: Const: warrior => warrior. should produce the last settler after it as it grows to 3.

Turn 8 (1550 AD)

IT:

Turn 9 (1525 AD) i can move the curraghs, they didn't sink, weehee... go around the Zulus' continent, in two ways. workers finally find a goal: bring water to Nicaea. look at Const and it seems i suck at calculating. fortunately i realized it, and switched to settler so it gets done when growing.

IT: Caesara: warrior=> worker (we have enough MPs already, i think, feel free to change that), Nicaea warrior => warrior

Turn 10 (1500 BC) more exploration.
two curraghs south of our island are "automated" towards points to do more suicide runs (we didn't lose enough curraghs, i think ^^) feel free to interrupt that and use them otherwise.
in general, feel free to correct any mistake i've made, or even to take the previous save and do things over because i screwed up too much ^^

EDIT: no screenie for two reasons: it's late and i'm very sleepy, and there is only one new thing, the city founded where Aggie and bed said.

I'd switch Nicaea to more growth and it looks like the other tribes don't have writing. Shame about the curraghs.

I'll be away from now until monday evenening CET as it looks now.

Does that mean I'm up, if so I've got it, will be tomorrow, so if it is someone elses turn speak up.

It is you. Everyone who signed up has played except for you.

Had an important decission to make so I thought I would ask the team.

For city 5 where should we settle?

My thoughts:

Red dot:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/City1.JPG
This city has the cow, its own sugar and the incense. However it doesn't have much production potential but will have low corruption.




Blue dot:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/City2.JPG
This city is a canal for quick routes and will be a production city later. It also gets us closer to the fur colony. Drawbacks it will be the most corrupt city (Right now Caesarea is with ~50% corruption but will get better when we change governments)

I would definately say blue dot. Corruption will not be that bad later in the game and it has some other advantages.

what about 3 SW of the red dot ?

That would be mostly desert. I still like blue. What I would really like is to move caesarea and blue dot 1 south. Might consider just pumping workers from caesarea and doing that later.

that would be mostly WATER and desert ;)

yes but blue would also be mostly water but hills/mountains too. The more I think anout I wound do the blue 1 south of your location and also move ceaserea later.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Theodora_of_the_Byzantines,_1250_BC.SAV)

Turn 2 1450BC:
Find that Zulu has fresh water, or electricity :lol:

Turn 3 1425BC:
Exploring around West Zululand see new boarder

Turn 4 1400BC:
Constantinople Settler finished, start curragh
Decide on 1 south of the blue dot, it will allow us to use the BG right away
Meet the Mongols (West of Zulu) no cash, same techs as other AI, no Alphabet, 5 cities, declare
Mongols has fresh water
Turn 10 picture of Mongols:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mongols.JPG

IBT:
Japan building ToA

Turn 5 1375BC:
Curragh survives meet Inca, 72gold, same techs no Alphabet, 8 cities, declare, Incas have the highest score
Start to move non exploring curraghs to Nicaea for future upgrades
Turn 10 picture of Inca:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Incas.JPG

Turn 6 1350BC:

IBT:
Arabia finishes ToA

Turn 7 1325BC:
Finish scouting Zululand
Inca have lots of tundra

IBT:
America comes wanting peace, they have Alphabet

Turn 8 1300BC:
Nicaea starts prebuild for a harbor
Found Varna 1 south of blue dot
Check rest of the world, America/Arabia island knows Alphabet
Japan/Egypt island knows Writing
Rest won't talk or don't know

Turn 10 1250BC:
Worker at Adrianople is finished, sending him to make a incense colony, or you can road the square he just moved onto

Notes:
Nicaea barracks are a prebuild for a harbor
We should think about a prebuild for GLH, First choice is Constantinpole followed by Adrianople, best prebuild is a barrack (40shields), will take both about 7 turns and thats how long it is till Philo.
All other cities should build boats in preparation for a Droman upgrade (does anyone know how much its costs per curragh?)

AI Listing:
Inca:Have lots of tundra, forest and hills but are first in score, need to cross ocean to get there
America:Good land and a good second island, we should give them high priority when we start to bomb
Arabs:Share island with America, mixed landscape
Egypt:Not worried except they have writing somehow
Japan:Same with Japan but it will be easy to bomb them on the way to America
Mongol:Grassland and desert but small, it will take a long time to get there
Zulu:Lots of Mountains and hills, but lots of land to cover

Got it. I will play tonight and then be away for 4 days. The civs with writing will very likely go with MM next which makes me fear we will not get the Lighthouse, that is a tough one on Sid. Oh well we will see.

dl123654, curragh to dromon upgrade costs 45gp, as far as I know.

Sorry about position of Caesarea. I did not foresee us settling on that hill up there, or I would have settled south.

Actually on looking at it more closely I think Cesearea is fine where it is. There will only be 2 tile overlap at max size which is fine. I was thinking it would be more.

Nice progress. I don't know what our chances for getting TGL are but we did a good job until now. I'll be available to play on Monday and Wednesday.

Nice progress. I don't know what our chances for getting TGL are but we did a good job until now. I'll be available to play on Monday and Wednesday.

Thought we were going for Lighthouse

Pre: Switch Adrinanople to workers for merging.

1100: Notice we need pottery to get to MM. Decide to make peace with Inca as they are isolated. Peace + alphabet for WC, Pottery, and 64gp.

IT: A Great year. Philo comes in and we are first. Take MM and the discovery of this tech gives us Geminus. Very Nice.

1075: Switch Nicea to Harbor due in 1. Switch Constantnople to Harbor lose a few shields. Lit at Min.

1050: Nicea Harbor->Dromon. Varna worker->Harbor. Constant Harbor->TGL. Upgrade 5 currgahs.

1025: Constant TGL->MoM. Upgrade another currgah (we are broke).

1000: Sending the fleet out.

The SGL was huge as we now have the Lighthouse and may get MoM. We really need to build up our growth as I pealed and merged a lot of workers to Constnatnople.

Opponents:

America :Building the HG so they are Monarchy and will begin to advance more rapidly. They lack writing.

Japan: Has Writing
Egypt: Has Writing
Zulu: Has Writing
Mongols: Lack Writing
Inca: We are at peace with them for 16 more turns and they lack writing.
Arabs: Lack writing.

Goals I would say are to just crank out dromons for a while. I would start by putting them at strategic points where AI can get to a new Island or get contact. Do they always have contact if their boarders touch? If not we should try and position some ships between America/Japan and Mongol/Zulu. In any case first goal is to prevent expansion and contacts. Remember we have the GLH so we can sit on sea squares immune from attack and come out and bombard shores and ships. Also, bombarding cities will sink ships in port. We are in very good shape although we need growth badly. I would trade Incans writing for all the 1st tier techs and whatever else you can get before the end of peace and then just redeclare. (no gpt of course). If we could get math we could use SoZ as a prebuild for TGL in the capitol. When MoM completes or we lose it adding one more pop to Constantnople will give us 2 turn dromons. We want a huge fleet of these so keep cranking them.

Bed UP
Percy On Deck

Getting that SGL sure was nice. Got it, but again, if Percy wants to switch, that would work well for me. If not, it will probably be up Sunday.

well, i think i can try and make it within about 5 hours, so i dunno. should i go ahead and play ?

Thought we were going for Lighthouse

TGL = The Great Lighthouse in this sense. Although it mostly is used for the Library I know.

Great one to get the SGL!! :)

well, i think i can try and make it within about 5 hours, so i dunno. should i go ahead and play ?

Feel free.

okay, then i'll be playing it right away.

IHT: everything looks good. Nicaea can grow faster, if we stop using the forest and use the mined grass instead, will do that next turn (when there's an even food). i discover that in the F3 screen, when you over on the line of a unit, when there are no units there, you see where units are being produced. weehee.

IT: nothing.

Turn 1 (975 BC): plenty of workers, not much left to do. i think about turning an irrigated plains into a mined one, since we will soon have to limit growth in const. i hope i'm not doing something stupid. i move dromons to cover more room, and will start bombing randomly in a short while. i can get all Inca techs for Writing, but they don't have maths, so i don't do it.

IT: mongol spear moves in a city. (thrilling huh ?)

Turn 2 (950 BC) create a colony on incense, and thus cancel my mining stuff ^^

IT:

Turn 3 (925 BC) upgrade a curragh, fail a bombardment on mongol improvements. discover a shiled under the forest in Varna, yay. mine it. for some reason, i notice that Varna and Caesara are building Dromons but don't have Harbors. i switch.

IT: Japan wants Philo for peace. haha.

Turn 4 (900 BC) nothing

IT:

Turn 5 (875 BC) nothing

IT:

Turn 6 (850 BC) Adrianopole: Harbor => Warrior (for a MP). try to bomb roads on luxuries on Mongol and Japan lands but fail everytime. do i do something wrong, or is it normal ?

IT: Arabs want peace. no thanks, i'm not interested =)

Turn 7 (825 BC) Nicaea: Dromon => Dromon. Egypt, Japan, and Zulu have Writing. Zulu are all alone on their island, and Egypt and Japan share their land. Upgrade the last curragh.

IT:

Turn 8 (800 AD) Adrianopole: Warrior => Dromon. Varna: Harbor => Dromon. ahhhh at last i destroyed a road on Dyes in Egypt. they have a second source connected, i'm bombing that next =) Mongol and Zulu borders touch, but i have finally a Dromon in the area.

IT: Washington finishes the Hanging Gardens. no cascading that i'm aware of.

Turn 9 (775 AD) various bombing missions all fail =)

IT: gah, a zulu boat enters Mongol land. i'm pretty sure they have contact now.

Turn 10 (750 BC) Caesara: Harbor => Dromon. Mongol improvement and last Egyptian Dye are destroyed =) as expected, Mongols got Writing from Zulu.

nothing much happened. i hope i didn't screw up too much. you guys must teach me how to control seas =)

750 BC (0) - I see no reason not to pull the trigger on the Inca trade, as we can't see Math until we know Masonry, and we pick up the Wheel, Iron Working, Ceremonial Burial, and Masonry. We have iron in the far north, but no horses.

670 BC (4) - MoM completes, we enter GA. As far as despotic GA go, this one is actually pretty useful. We have no rivers and almost no BG, so we pretty much get the full bonus.

At some point, the Inca demanded Philo, I said no, so they declared.

I didn't have any clear strategy either in my turns. Tried to knock out key resources or disconnect cities, or in the case of Egypt and Japan, I tried to disconnect them. When ships came out, I bombarded them and sunk them.

Constaninople does 20spt, so it is building spears at the moment.

Tech is definitely going pretty slow. No techs discovered in my turns.

I was considering a strategy for actually starting to take some land. If we could disconnect all squares surrounding a mountain, plop down some spearmen and such, or go for a hill and bring along some catapults, and then try to absorb the attack. However, this is not really my thing, so I don't know what would work. Perhaps it is time to give a better idea of what the plan is, Mark? Bombarding is good and all, but it only goes so far, and I am not sure about the exact plan beyond dromons.

The rule for contact is a unit has to be seen, so borders alone won't do it. As that is the case, I don't think America and Japan have met, but the Zulus and Mongols have met.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_550BC.jpg

I think it's time for discussion indeed. By the way, due to a misunderstanding about my car repair I can't play before Wednesday :( I can join the discussion as from tomorrow though.

Sorry for the 2nd post, but it turns out that I can post, comment and play monday evening without a problem.

heya guys

just wanted to pop in to ask you to please try and develop a bit the plan, and the means... i am not experienced on Sid, and while i know it's not a training game, the surest way for me to not screw up is to teach me a bit ;)

Am I up???

Yes'm. Percy and I switched, so you are up. We never did get much of a discussion going.

My only idea still is trying to disconnect all tiles surrounding a mountain or hill, and dropping off as many spearmen and catapults (if we go hill) as we can. If we go mountain, just fortify and hope to weather the attack, which doesn't seem like much of a plan. If we go hill, bring along some archers, a settler, and lots of cats. Bombard everything approaching we can and try to take out attackers if possible with the archers. Fortify the spears, rush some walls, and hope it holds. So I guess hill is better. If there are any civs without resources, I am inclined to head there first, as we won't have the benefit of a strong defensive army until we've actually warred.

I will play in a few hours. We are in good shape. Things I noticed:

- We are in a Despot GA. Not the best thing to have unfortunately... But we got it from a great MoM.
- We are doing min research on Lit. This will bring it to us in 27, while we can go 16 turns faster. I'd max out science.
- Lux tax should go from 10% to 0%!!
- Zulu are the strongest civ. I'd try to damage them as much as possible.

I'm thinking about building dromons, dromons, dromons to pillage the AI to stone-age. And meanwhile I will be going max Lit to get The Great Library asap.

Discussion time?

My only idea still is trying to disconnect all tiles surrounding a mountain or hill, and dropping off as many spearmen and catapults (if we go hill) as we can. If we go mountain, just fortify and hope to weather the attack, which doesn't seem like much of a plan. If we go hill, bring along some archers, a settler, and lots of cats. Bombard everything approaching we can and try to take out attackers if possible with the archers. Fortify the spears, rush some walls, and hope it holds. So I guess hill is better. If there are any civs without resources, I am inclined to head there first, as we won't have the benefit of a strong defensive army until we've actually warred.

I wouldn't think about a landing party yet, instead we should focus on boats first, to destroy all their improvements and stop any boats from leaving their island, this would slow them down to a point where we might be able to out produce and research them.

Then we should think about taking them out 1 at a time.

And don't rush to get lit, unless your GL prebuild is on pace.

IHT: So this is indeed an always war :lol: Lux tax to 0%, science to 100%. Lit in 10! Cities are mm-ed beautifully. But I never would leave dromons on coastal tiles.

IT: Constantinople: spear->spear.

Turn 1 (530 BC) 15 dromons only damage 1 worked tile.

IT: Constantinople: spear->Dromon, Nicaea: dromon->dromon.

Turn 2 (510 BC) No hits!

IT: Adrianople, Varna: dromon->dromon.

Turn 3 (490 BC) One of the Zulu iron sources is unhooked with a dromon.

IT: Constantinople: dromon->dromon.

Turn 4 (470 BC) One of the Zulu silks unhooked.

IT: Nicaea: dromon->dromon.

Turn 5 (450 BC) :sleep:

IT: Const, Adria: dromon->dromon.

Turn 6 (430 BC) One of the Japanese gems unhooked and also a horse tile of the Zulu pillaged. Zulu galley sunk by bombardment.

IT: Caesara: dromon->dromon.

Turn 7, 8 (410, 390 BC) :sleep:

Turn 9 (370 BC) Spear takes two Japanese slaves. Slaves can easily be captued when they are walking on the shores. The last Zulu horse is also pillaged. Science to 70%. Lit still in one.

IT: Literature comes in, Constantinople switched to the Great Library.

Turn 10 (350 BC) Science to 0%, awaiting a great wonder to give us all techs!!

I have one general advice: use dromons bombardment capability only to attack ships. It then will NEVER lose a battle!!

I rushed Literature because we are at war with the rest of the world and can't be demanded to give it away. Plus we have no prebuild at all! So to me the best thing to do is to get Lit fast. Now I guess we don't have to research at all anymore.

350 BC save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-350BC.zip)

dl, I wasn't really suggesting a landing party just yet, but I still want to know where we are heading.

Sorry about the lux being up. I can't remember for sure why it was at 10%, as I remember noticing it could go to 0% at one point.

Got it

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Theodora_of_the_Byzantines,_150_BC.SAV)

To sum it up :sleep: .

I think I found the secret to this game:
If our boats are on the coast of the AI island they won't build/launch boats. Their units also fortify.

Zulu: Saw 5 boats total, all sunk within the first 4 turns, they have not tried to create more boats. All our boats in Zululand are in the south because a boat can't get anywhere going north. For now just bombing any resource then irrigation, then mines, workers are replacing the damage

Japan: Not sure what they are doing, they had the ability to use boats but decided not to risk them (didn't see any). Disconnected all Gems of Japan and was working my way down the island leaving some in the north to watch for boats. They are not improving their land anymore and it doesn't look like they are building units either :confused:

Inca/Mongols: just got Map Making resently have boats in the area, worried about the land south east of Inca, south of Mongols, the AI will be able to get there so I placed a boat there.

America/Arabs/Egypt: Don't have Map Making yet, not much of a threat, however America and Arabs both have land they can travel to, Americas south with lots of wheat and Arabs north with lots of tundra. America and Arabs don't even have writing yet so that a little far away.

We are making 3gpt right now but will go down when we build more units

After playing my turnset I think we should mount an attack against Japan within 20-30 turns.

One thing we always should do imho is capture slaves working lands on the coast. All units have the ability to capture non-defense units by naval invsion. Losing workers will seriously hurt the AI, especially when we keep on bombarding their shores.

EDIT: do we want SoZ asap???

One thing we always should do imho is capture slaves working lands on the coast. All units have the ability to capture non-defense units by naval invsion. Losing workers will seriously hurt the AI, especially when we keep on bombarding their shores.

That is a great idea for this variant. In addition, any you get home to work you lands will help without killing you economy with unit support.

Got it. As far as strategy I think we want to pound the tech leaders and starve cities. No for taking Islands yet, that will be difficult. My feeling is that we won't have the unit support to do this until we have markets and ducts but we shall see. When there are 2 civs are on the Island I'd say we weaken the strongest first by taking some costal cities that can be isolated by bombardment. Then ally against the strong one and when the 2 civs burn all their troops on each other then we can march all over the Island. Since we can't have more cities other than one for military purposes we need to take whole Islands in one opperation, Anything short of that and the AIs will just reexpand. With the Sid growth/build rate they will be up to full speed in no time if we have to retreat from an Island and we will just have to do it again. It will take a lot of troops to take whole Islands from a Sid civ. TGL/infra/SoZ are top priorties. That and slowing the tech pace to a standstill with our dromons.

I agree completely Mark1031 :)

If we ally we should have a full blockade of their cities, making it so they can't expand to any other islands.

Whos got it?

Got it.

that's all i know ^^

Well it seems that we have enough dromons or at least all we can afford at the moment so I switch most cities to temple/granary or workers. Not much to report basically bombard the coasts and try to take some workers. I have a few dromons on goto to pick up some warriors for the essentially suicide worker capture technique. We cannot afford much more in terms of units we really need to develop our economy. The GL is due in 4 and we should get Monarchy and construction. Americans got the great wall. I would build ducts all around but Nicea can be used as a 2-turn worker factory for improvement and merging once the ducts are done. Also, I recommend 1 scientist on currency when available as this is the last tech for the AIs to research and it may take a while to get it. That’s all, things look good ATM with our large Navy. If we can keep the tech pace at a stand still we can build up troops for a Japan/Egypt Island take over. We will need a much more developed economy to support this.

Bed UP
Percy On Deck

Again I fully support your views Mark1031. Sorry if it sounds boring ;)

I was looking for something fun to do, so we revolted and went in to anarchy. That got boring, so I settled for Monarchy, as Queen Theodora has a really nice ring to it.

I also wanted a friend. So we made peace with the Arabs and allied them against America. The hope was to get them to waste some units on each other, but the Arabs seem to be over matched. America has both iron and horses (I thought we had disconnected them both early enough that there wouldn't be too many) while the Arabs have neither. I hope this wasn't too big a mistake.

Here is the effect of the Great Library.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_130AD_techs_before.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_150AD_techs_after.jpg

With anarchy and some city improvements, I didn't build any units. Had a tough time finding slaves to steal. We didn't make any real progress towards being able to declare on anyone.

I have been doing 10% research. Switch to a scientist if that is the preference, I just don't like using a scientist in a 5CC, even though it is probably best.

Hmmm, nice thought about getting AI to kill each other, but we now don't have an AW anymore ;) I'm afraid it wasn't clever to have a weak Arab nation declare on the Americans. Hopefully this won't hurt us in the long run. I guess that we have to follow this tactic with the two strongest AI in the game. Is that Zulu and America?

They were about even in size, so on the surface it seemed fine. I don't know why I didn't check resources. Such an obvious thing to do, and really not the kind of mistake I usually make. Well, maybe not. I guess this falls into the category of "reckless." However, even if the Americans do well, I doubt that it will cause too many problems. As you noted, they have the Zulu for neighbors, and if America takes Arab lands, America and Zululand will be about equal.

Well I definately would not have done the Arab thing. In fact one of my biggest fears was that this kind of war would happen on it's own. What was the goal? To have them burn troops? Well the reason the tech pace is so slow is because they have choked themselves in units so now you will see the Americains starting to have $$ and moving in research. Also, if they run over the Arabs which I'm sure they will, they have the great wall and better land while Arabs have no resources, then we have one large civ to take on isolated on an Island. I really don't understand the thinking behind this move but we will just see how it plays out. Please do not do the same with Jap/Egypt. The Islands with 2 civs are our best shot for conquering as we will have an ally. We do want them to burn troops but only when we are ready to take advantage of it. As far as American Zulu equity we all know how well the AIs do at sea invasions. This balance will be no help to us in alliances.

EDIT: I think we should shift our dromon attention to the Americans ASAP and try to help the Arabs survive.

ok, got it, will play now

turn 0 (250 AD): MM a bit to gain a whooping +1 gpt !!! yeeha ! you knew you could count on me ^^

turn 1 (260 AD): Japanese kill a spear that we (presumably) used to capture workers. it was attacked by an archer while on a hill, oh well. Arabs ask us to leave, but don't force us. war between arabs and americans, god those SoD fights are boring. Arabs seem to hold their ground, but spears/archers VS horses/swords will soon be an arab bloodbath =/
further bombings, hardly ever succeed =/ i try to help Arabs by weakening americans as much as possible.
Nicae => Duct

turn 2 (270 AD): Americans ask for peace, but we have a 18-turn treaty. Adria => Duct.
guys, i hope i'm not doing something terrible, but i'm going to disable the "animate battle" thing. i don't have much time to play civ, so spending it watching the AI fight is a bit boring =D i raise lux to make const happy while it finishes temple. i bomb some places, with good success. i put some dromons on "auto-bomb" where SoDs protect resources (eg.: zulu silks and horses)

turn 3 (280 AD): Mongols ask for peace, yeah, sure ^^ Americans are steamrolling over Arabs =/ more bombing.

turn 4 (290 AD): Const => Lib. then i'm thinking about starting SoZ. fortunately, my turn will end before we accumulate too many shields in it, so you guys can change it if you want. Caesarea => Duct. const still need lux to work all its tiles, ok, we're at -8gpt.

turn 5 (300 AD): Varna=> Duct. more bombing, half-successful

turn 6 (310 AD): the Americans are punishing the Arabs.

turn 7 (320 AD): we gain CoL. Const=>SoZ.

turn 8 (330 AD): great, Americans and Arabs signed peace. this means we can get back to AW 4 turns sooner, and they'll stop burning troops.

turn 9 (340 AD): an American ship slipped through blockade into Japan territory =/ i destroyed it asap, but probably too late.

turn 10 (350 AD): bombing cows near boston, moving ships in zululand to the horses to accelerate the bombing, move workers to improve Vatra now that Caes is fully improved (or so).

that's it, once again don't hit me too hard if i did something wrong please =P

Our largest stack of dromons was over in Zulu land, a couple turns off from the Americans. The hope was once a few other key Zulu tiles were disconnected to send the dromons over and help the Arabs. Part of the help would come in finally destroying the tile improvements in all of the coastal tiles. I didn't realize that this early on, unit costs would already be what was killing the economies of our opponents. I thought that had to do with pillaged tiles and no trading opportunities. I also somehow missed that the Americans had horses, and thought that their iron had been taken out early enough to limit their swordsmen, so I didn't expect it to be such an uneven fight. I didn't even consider Egypt/Japan because that fight would be so lopsided. Sorry about that decision though, next time I'll consult with the team before doin anything at all like that.

thought that their iron had been taken out early enough to limit their swordsmen

I took out their iron in my last turnset, so they either reconnected it or have another.

I think it is my turn so I got it now, will be able to play in a few hours after work so speak up if I'm wrong.

I hope I didn't sound testy everyone has different thoughts on these things and I wouldn't have been surprised if this war would have happened eventually on it's own (I think I set it to high AI aggression). I do think unit support can be an issue even this early. The Sid AI has lots of free unit support but if the tech pace is slow and they can't expand then their rapid production ability just drowns them in cheap units, I think they only get like 10 free/city but they produce over 100 even with only 4 cities. Bombarding just keeps them in deficit. The tech pace can be really slowed, I played a 1 city game like this as AW and I was the only one to physics in like 1960 or something (after going up to free artistry). If I had ignored FA and could have traded a bit I could have been fighting spears/LBs with cav and rifles which is exactly what I hope to do in this game.

We should discuss a strategy. I was thinking the following:

1. Keep in AW mode till we are ready for our first invasion. I think we will need all size 12 cities with markets for this. I would think we need about 40 ground troops to start this and Jap/Egypt as obvious 1st target, I'd say we may want to wait for Pikes and MI for this although I am a very conservative warmonger.

2. Don't trade lit (which we can't anyway if we stay AW) but I just wanted to mention it as the AI can rea\search this very late and it helps slow research for them to lack it.

3. For invasion we first take out cities that can be isolated by bombardment like Tokyo and the one north of Tokyo to even Jap/Egypt a bit then sign in Egypt. Coastal hit and run is a great tactic with dromons and lots of mountain landing spots. We must take the whole island on this move. Also, I wouldn't kill the last troops until we get a leader (but don't load it), we will need a army for the next invasion. After invasion we can plop down a 6th city which will give us horses and 2 more lux. I'd keep this as a throw away with just harbor.

4. Next up america/arabs. This is why I'm so concerned about arab survival. If we get a RoP with the arabs we can land and establish an army for this war. Sign up the Arabs and help them take down the hords of American troops then go for the cities, then turn on the Arabs.

5. Finally this isolated civs. Mongols seem like the first target. We might want to try to out research the AIs up to rifles for this although for some cities we can knock them down by doing coastal hit and run. We will need to be at least to Magnetism anyway to move the army for cover.

6. Wonders: not of great importance but I wouldn't mind trying to snag copis and Newton’s in Constantinople. We could then really out research the AIs for taking on the isolated islands.

Anyway those are my thoughts. Could everyone chime in with your thoughts on strategy, conquest will not be easy with only 5/6 cities on Sid so we should have a coherent plan.

The reason I though unit support wouldn't be a big deal is that every civ gets something like 36 free units, plus 12 for every city I think. With so few cities, the 36 free per civ is of proportionally greater value than for a larger civ, which led me to think that support costs would be inconsequential when compared to that lost to unimproved tiles.

By the way, I didn't take anything you said too seriously. We're playing a game, and a little testiness, real or percieved, will not offend me.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Theodora_of_the_Byzantines,_450_AD.SAV)

Complants:
Why are roading the furs?
Using a scientist got gpt costs from -9 to -3 right away
Don't like that America got to that island to their south
No auto bombardment, the AI doesn't know how to bombard, thats why they don't use it in the first place :lol:

Kill count:
Boats:9
8 American
1 Arab

Disconnect lots of land

Cities:
Constantinople:SoZ in 1 turn Added 1 worker there
Adrianople:10spt, 5 turns for 2 warriors and a boat, scientist there
Nicaea:Can't get to 10spt, therefore 5spt, 10 turns for 2 warriors and a boat, growth every 4 turns, check it in 3 turns for 10spt
Caesarea:Max size of 9, ~40% corruption, building a court will be above 15spt after its done
Varna:Aqueduct in 1 turn, last national worker near it, either join it there or at Adrianople

Currently making +5gpt

Japan/Egypt/Zulu/Mongol/Inca are all not doing anything
America is trying to get off their island, trying to reinforce their island city
Caught Arabs trying to go there too

Boats are in groups bombarding any square that is advailable starting with food squares
Any boat that is alone is on hunting patrol, move around make sure there are no boats around
Have 1 boat almost at America with two warriors on it for worker stealing, try their iron
About half of the Zulu attack force has moved on to Mongols, Zululand is not rebuilding their land except for in the south east at their iron and horses

errrrrrrrrr

furs: because this lone slave was there when i got the game, and i really had no clue what he was doing over there, so decided he would at least road the luxes for when (if) the age of trade starts.

as for the scientist: const still need lux to work all its tiles, ok, we're at -8gpt.
i decided that we needed const growing more than a few coins, especially considering our treasure.

The worker was there to colonize the iron, since we don't have a source connected at the moment, and I didn't see any reason to wait. I should have mentioned that, but I couldn't really think of any other reason for it to be there other than a colony so I didn't bother. But no harm done, or maybe that was even good, as we don't need iron hooked up yet, and I guess we are still doing the warrior steals workers thing? I sort of abandoned that idea, as I wasn't having any luck finding workers. Three or four were captured in my turns.

well, if we want to build colonies, shouldn't we use regular workers ? slaves have no upkeep, and upkeep's killing us, so...

America has lots of unprotected workers to take

yup but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep slaves anyway =)

IMO we should merge native workers (we have 2) back to cities and use slaves for everything else. The Americans and Arabs appear to have fought to a stalemate (Does this reflect current events?). This is perfect, we can use that city that got away for training our troops. It should be no problem to take with a few swords. Where is our iron colony? I think I had a slave on goto to form it on my turn. BTW notice how the Americans suddenly have $$ and start building boats and settlers. I think that with the slow tech pace and AW they just build troops until they are broke. No one else has $$ or is sending out boats I wonder if they are on wealth or something.

Aggie is UP
Mark On Deck

Any thoughts on future strategy?

As I said America has a lot of workers, we need to take them

Don't connect the iron because warriors steal as well as swords and cost less

We should take that small city so that they don't send boats anymore but that is a future task

I got it, but only for Monday... You all play so quickly :)

Scratch that remark, I can play right now :)

hehe

can't.....resist.....playing....

^^

IHT: I MM a couple of cities to emphasize on growth and commerce instead of shields, without losing turns on the builds. We get 10 gpt more now.

IT: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-SOZ.jpg

Constantinople: SoZ->Dromon. Varna: Aquaduct->Courthouse.

Turn 1 (460 AD) I sink 1 Zulu ship.

IT: Adrianople: dromon->dromon.

Turn 2 (470 AD) :sleep:

IT: Const: dromon->dromon. Caesara: courthouse->dromon.

Turn 3 (480 AD) 3 American workers captured!!

IT: warrior loses from a sword after killing an American archer.

Turn 4 (490 AD) 2 American galleys sunk.

IT: 4 new dromons. 3 dromons and a warrior are ordered.

Turn 5 (500 AD) America has Republic. But we take two workers. We also disconnect the Egyptian iron :)

IT: 1st AC produced!!

Turn 6 (510 AD) Armeican galley destroyed.

IT: 2 dromons and a warrior ready.

Turn 7 (520 AD) 1 Arab galley destroyed.

Turn 8 (530 AD) Worker joins Caesara. Arab and American galley destroyed.

Turn 9 (540 AD) Iron source of the Zulu disconnected and American galley destroyed.

Turn 10 (550 AD) End of my campaign. We are doing well I'd say! And see how late it is and notice that we are still inj the ancient age with the rest!!

America has Republic and the Zulu have Currency. So we will have them sooner rather than later from TGL.
550 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-550AD.SAV)

Turn 10 (550 AD) End of my campaign. We are doing well I'd say! And see how late it is and notice that we are still inj the ancient age with the rest!!

This is unreal. Games as low as Monarch normally see the MA before this.

This is unreal. Games as low as Monarch normally see the MA before this.

Yes starting AW on Sid and keeping the civs isolated on islands stops the tech pace dead in its tracks. Their huge production capacity drowns them in troops faster than their huge unit support and economy can handle. Of course eventually we have to kill all those units but I think its a good trade off.

Got it but it might not be till monday

Well I think we have more than enough dromons so time for some ground troop Adrianople -> Rax, Caesarea->Rax Nicea->worker

560: Shift the fleet around. Zulu are leaders so I begin to starve some of their cities. They are pretty well pillaged. Inca, Arabs and Americans are next with Japan lacking CoL. Egypt and Mongols are far behind and can be ignored. Steal 2 American workers.

570: More bombing and positioning ships and bombing.

580: More of the same. America has currency so switch off scientist and switch everything to prebuilds.

590: We get republic and currency and Feudalism for our freebie good we will want to build up pikes and MI so that is as good as any. More of the same take 2 more ‘merican workers. Markets ordered all around accept Nicea which is a native worker pump.

600: Sink one of Abe’s boats. He still has $$ and about 60 gpt available.

610: More of the same.

620: Finally form iron colony. Take 2 American boats and a worker.

630: Constant Market->Pike. See massive Arab troop movement on the IT. I fear another damn war. We must keep the balance of power between these 2.

640: 2 more markets complete start MI. The Americans and Arabs must have a RoP as there are no battles. Good.

650: Sink 2 Arab boats.

Summary: Arabs and Americans are the biggest concern as they have $$ and are doing research and producing boats. I have a ton of ships starving Zulu cities as they were the leaders but perhaps they should be shifted to America. Nicea is a 2 turn worker pump. Once all cities are at 12 and you have 5 extra workers you can switch to market and merge the workers. This is the fastest growth potential. We need to take on Japan. I would say we need about 30 troops minimum with about ¼ pikes and the rest MI and AC. We should knock out a few coastal cities before signing in the Egyptians. Pike on the North most Mountain will make a good decoy to pull their troops away. Sorry I might have a couple of boats with workers on Goto and a native worker on goto. Native workers are all for merging we can’t afford to keep them around. Also, Adrianople will do 20 shields I think at size 12 with enough mined plains. This can then be a 2-turn MI factory. Well that’s it. Time to build up troops and go stomping. I think we might be a little heavy on dromons at the moment as we will need plenty of land troops for conquest.

PS: First order of business while building troops for Jap/Egypt is to take out Seattle. About 4 AC with a pike or 2 for cover should do the trick.


Bed UP
Percy On Deck

Aye, I've got it. No more starting stupid wars, either.

Wow. I must say that these were a yawn. Hopefully the next 10 won't be to the ame degree. I focused on destroying tile improvements, and covering a few key fish tiles where I could. It didn't seem like covering all coastal and sea tiles in a city's radius was effective at starving them, so I sort of gave up on that idea.

America learned Theology (I got the Sistine's message), but other than that no tech progress. There are only a few tiles with any tile improvement that we can reach with dromons, and as I said covering tiles with dromons didn't seem terribly effective. We would probably need more dromons for it to be especially effective. So anyway, a few dromons are moving on Arab tiles and some are working on the last few American tiles.

I turned off most animations as that flame thing started driving me nuts. So if the next player needs them back on, be warned that they are off.

In my last turn, a few things actually happened worth noting. I accidentally joined the worker our worker pump had just produced, as I was in a rhythm hitting b for bombard, and b also joins a worker to a city. Sorry about that. Also, captured Seattle, but the Americans just founded another city to the south on that island.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_750AD_seattle.jpg

wow guys, you were fast... too fast for me to have time to post that i wouldn't be able to play for three days, actually =/ i'm sorry, unexpected events... please skip/swap me as you see fit.

sorry again

Aggie is you're available take it else we can wait. You guys are fast.

I won't be able to play for a couple of days. You guys are indeed fast :lol:

I can't access the save at ll but we know that we have to sink all ships that we can see? I'd also say that we never can have enough dromons... Although I know that we also want to get ourselves an invasion army soon.

The settler was from Seattle. I saw its pop drop from 5 to 3. I sunk four American ships, two of them while in harbor, and two Arab ships. Of course, that doesn't mean I didn't miss something Arab, as I didn't pay them much attention until the end.

Just to be sure: I expect Percy to play now. This will be the first time that I won't be able to play for some days as predicted. I will certainly be able to play on Monday and MAYBE in the weekend. I assume that we have a lenient roster, like all previous Mark1031 games? :)

Percy said he couldn't play for three days in his last post, and to swap/skip as needed. I guess if you can't play either, Aggie, we will do neither.

Yes if Aggie can't play till monday we will go:

Percy UP
dl12345 On Deck
Aggie

okay that's a got it, i was in the train 30 minutes ago, as soon as i catch my breath i will play =)

sorry again for the delay.

EDIT: starting it right now. i will play, but before next time, please guys give me advice on how to wage wars etc at SID, my experience does not go beyond Emperor, and that was a couple of times only =/

IHT: check the cities a bit. all are at 12 pop and growing. Adrianopole cannot have 20spt without losing 1 food, due to corruption, so i will let it lose 1 fpt for a while it can go back on 4 fpt when we need it to grow. we should build cheap units for MP, as we are currently using ACs in some cities...
ENTER!

IT: american troops move. Adrianopole: MI => MI (in two turns, with 1 fpt shortage). Const produces an AC. Caesara: MI => MI. Varna: MI => MI.

Turn 1 (760 AD) lots of bombing ^^ reorganizing troops.

IT: american boats move. Const: Pike => Pike. Nicaea: Worker => Worker.

Turn 2 (770 AD) more bombing.

IT: Adrianopole: MI => MI. Americans start KT.

Turn 3 (780 AD) well, bombing. oh, and i destroy San Francisco =) lost one MI, but one AC promoted to elite.

IT: const: Pike => Pike. Caesarea: MI => MI. Nicaea: Worker => Worker.

Turn 4 (790 AD) guess what. also, there are AI units everywhere. there are hardly any spots to land ^^

IT: we receive monotheism. Adrianopole: MI => MI. Varna: MI => MI.

Turn 5 (800 AD) same ole. a dromon promotes by bombing an arab galley to death ^^

IT: Const: AC + Pike => Pike. Nicaea: Worker => Market, i merge all workers back, Nicea is 10, soon 11.

Turn 6 (810 AD) nothing, really.

IT: Zulu want peace. Adrianopole: MI => MI. Caesarea: MI => MI.

Turn 7 (820 AD) <insert witty comment about bombing here>

IT: Const: Pike => Pike.

Turn 8 (830 AD) nada

IT: Adrianopole: MI => MI. Varna: MI => MI.

Turn 9 (840 AD) rien

IT: Const: Pike => Pike. Caesarea: MI => MI. Arabs finish Sun Tzu in Mecca.

Turn 10 (850 AD) troops are stored west of Adrianopole and east of Caesarea. i'm using slaves to enhance the road network. honestly, we have no use of them for now, i think.

that's it =)

Sounds good :goodjob: . Now the fun begins. I think it is almost time to take the :hammer: to the Jap/Egypt Island. You might consider recalling the bulk of our fleet for the invasion. I would suggest we start by taking out some Japanese cities that can be cut off by bombardment. These should only require about a dozen offensive troops or so. Also, starve them down with dromons to <7 if possible. I wouldn't sign in Egypt untill we cut down Japan by a couple of cities.

dl123456 UP

Aggie On Deck

Got it now, I think it would be better if we don't get Egypt involved and work from the top of the island down, but I haven't looked at the save yet. Will play now.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Theodora_of_the_Byzantines,_950_AD.SAV)

Preturn 850AD:
Capture 3 American workers

IBT:
Arabs bombard our boat
1 Pike dies, 1 becomes an elite

Turn 1 860AD:
Why are boats on auto move/bombard, click on every boat at the end of turn
Capture American worker
Interesting, we have a strong military against America and Arabia
Feel we have enough military, change Adranople (changed citizens around) and Constantinople to Dromons every 2 turns

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Strong.JPG

IBT:
Japan wants 20gold for peace
Worker Stealer goes unattacked

Turn 3 880AD:
Take American Worker, find Washington

IBT:
See big stack of Arab units in America

Turn 4 890AD:
Take another American Worker

IBT:
Forgot about the Arab stack and was attacked, retreated into the safe mountains

Turn 5 900AD:
Get this message:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Copernicus.JPG

IBT:
We learn Theology
See an American Caravel

Turn 7 920AD:
America finishes Knights Templar
Fleet leaves for America

Turn 8 930AD:

IBT:
Spot Caravel going towards north Japan, will intercept with attack force

Turn 9 940AD:
Zulu has Engineering
Got the caravel

IBT:
America building Bach

Turn 10 950AD:
Capture American Worker
Not seeing too many American units
2/3 attack force is rdy to land next turn
Considering that America is researching and has money to spare (50-250 gold during my turnset) says they don't have many units, the military adviser still says we are stronger then them
With the exception of Washington America doesn't have any improved tiles left
Suggest we raze Washington with the units we have that destroys Great Wall, Hanging Gardens and Knights Templar
Washington, Boston and Alanta are currently building wonders so we should go after New York and Phili after Washington
Boston and Alanta should be next then finishing up with Chicago which is currently a desert town
Current army stands as about 10 AC, 15 MI, 10 Pike
Sign Arabia only if you have to (sunk about 10 of their boats during my turnset, would not like to stop that)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Attack_Force.JPG

Got it for tonight :)

1050 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-1050AD.zip)

IHT:Our cities are extremely well managed :goodjob: I like to take out Boston before the capital, because Washington will be defended extra... The Great Wall of Washington doesn't have an influence anyway, since all cities are bigger than size 6. So I land units two tiles from Washington and Boston.

IT: America starts Bach.

Turn 1 (960 AD) Boston defenders are hit by Dromons and then AC's attack:

5/5 AC vs 3/4 spear: 3-0, AC wins
5/5 AC vs 3/4 spear: 3-0, AC wins and promotes
5/5 AC vs 3/4 spear: 2-5, spear wins
5/5 AC vs 3/4 spear: 3-4, AC wins and promotes [3-1]

We land a stack of 20 units next to Boston.

IT: No counterattack :hmm:

Turn 2 (970 AD) 7 spears are shot to 2 HP or less by our Dromons.

5/5 AC vs 2/4 spear: 2-1, AC wins
4/4 MDI vs 2/4 spear: 2-1, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 2/4 spear: 1-4, spear wins
4/4 MDI vs 2/4 spear: 0-4, spear wins :mad:
4/4 MDI vs 2/4 spear: 2-1, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 2/4 spear: 2-3, MDI wins
6/6 AC vs 1/4 spear: 1-3, AC wins

I take Boston for now... :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-Bstonisours.jpg


4/4 MDI vs 3/3 American archer: 3-3, MDI wins [9-3].

We occupy the horse tile now.

IT: America sends a mini-SoD. Arab archer kills a fortified pike :( [10-3]

Turn 3 (980 AD) New York:

5/5 AC vs 4/4 spear: 4-2, AC wins
5/5 AC vs 3/3 pike: 3-2, AC wins. [12-3]

We pillage the American horse and redline the American SoD almost completely.

IT: Our pikes kill two Arabian archers and an American one [15-3].

Turn 4 (990 AD) We will get Engineering and Chivalry next turn, thanks to the Zulu, Arabs and Americans :D

6/6 AC vs 4/4 spear: 4-0, AC wins
6/6 AC vs 4/4 spear: 4-4, AC wins and.... [17-3]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-MGL.jpg

I create an AC army. Who goes to Boston immediately.

IT: No counterattack. We get Chivalry and Engineering :)

Turn 5 (1000 AD) Dromons take 2 HP's of the three spears defending New York. I abandon the flip risky city of Boston and then attack New York:

13/17 AC army vs 2/4 spear: 2-2, army wins
11/17 AC army vs 2/4 spear army: 2-0, army wins
4/4 MDI vs 2/4 spear: 2-2, MDI wins and we TAKE New York!! [19-3]

IT: Arabs near New York with a SoD of 7. We get the Heroic Epic message.

Turn 6 (1010 AD) Dromons take hp's from the Arab SoD near New York.

11/17 AC army vs 2/4 spear: 2-2, army wins
9/17 AC army vs 4/4 archer: 4-0, army wins
4/4 MDI vs 4/4 archer: 4-1, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 4/4 archer: 4-1, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 4/4 archer: 4-3, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 4/4 archer: 4-3, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 4/4 archer: 4-3, MDI wins and promotes
4/4 MDI vs 4/4 archer: 4-0, MDI wins
4/5 MDI vs 1/4 spear: 1-0, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 1/4 spear: 1-0, MDI wins and promotes
4/4 MDI vs 1/4 spear: 1-1, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 1/4 spear: 1-1, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 1/4 spear: 1-0, MDI wins [32-3]

IT: No counterattack...

Turn 7 (1020 AD) 4 Arabs units are redlined by Dromons.

9/17 AC army vs 1/4 spear: 1-0, army wins
9/17 AC army vs 1/4 spear: 1-0, army wins
5/5 AC vs 1/4 archer: AC wins
9/17 AC army vs 1/4 archer: 1-0, army wins [35-3]

We head for Atlanta. 15 units land SE of the city on the mountain.

IT: Again no counterattack!! But America founbds Miami.

Turn 8 (1030 AD) Dromons redline 3 spears in Atlanta.

6/6 AC vs 1/4 spear: 1-0, AC wins
5/5 AC vs 1/4 spear: 1-1, AC wins...I abandon New York (after selling the improvements...)
4/5 AC vs 1/4 spear: 1-2, AC wins and we take Atlanta. [38-3]

Turn 9 (1040 AD) The American and Arab SoD near Atlanta are redlined.

13/17 AC army vs 1/4 Arab spear: 1-1, army wins
12/17 AC army vs 1/4 Arab spear: 1-0, army wins
6/6 AC vs 2/4 Arab archer: 2-0, AC wins
4/5 AC vs 2/4 Arab archer: 2-2, AC wins

4/5 AC vs 1/4 American spear: 1-0, AC wins
5/5 MDI vs 1/4 American spear: 1-0. MDI wins.
4/4 MDI vs 1/4 American archer: 1-3, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 1/4 American archer: 1-1, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 1/4 American archer: 1-0, MDI wins [47-3]

IT: Arabia finishes Sistine...

Turn 10 (1050 AD) Arab and American troops are again redlined.

12/17 AC vs 1/3 American warrior: 1-0, army wins and ends next to Philadelphia. Other troops join this army and next turn this city should be ours!
5/5 AC vs 1/4 Am crusader: 1-0, AC wins
5/5 MDI vs 1/4 Am crusader: 1-1, MDI wins
5/5 MDI vs 1/4 Am spear: 1-1 MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 1/4 spear: 1-2, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 1/4 sword: 1-1, MDI wins
4/4 MDI vs 1/4 archer: 1-0, MDI wins [54-3]

We have America on their knees. I constnatly abandoned the city captured ealier to avoid flips as much as possible. Be sure to sell improvements first though... Would be nice to kill them before the Great Library gets obsolote, because they are the tech frontrunners and the only one with Education...

Our situation in America:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-America.jpg

hi guys

i just wanted to ask you again to please give me some guidelines regarding... everything ^^ but particularly waging war. i am not a very good warlord in Monarch, and the tons of troops in Sid make me feel i'm going to explode when it is my turn to play, which i don't want to do =)

11/17 AC army vs 2/4 spear army: 2-0, army wins

The AI build an army :eek:

I think we should march up into Arabia after America is done

If we get any more armies we should save so they don't get stuck on that island, unless you feel you need them for the Arab attack

Aggie looks good. With an army the Americans and Arabs are done for sure. I'll probably play tonight.

@ percy: You seem to be an excellent player don't worry. The keys for the human is exploiting AI stupidity, bombardment, terrain, diversion and allies doing most of the work. You are aware of the army exploit (err tactic) where the AI won't attack armies in general so you can move a SoD from city to city under it? It is one of the most unbalancing components of the game which is why we come up with crazy varients. INvading the single civ islands will be more difficult. For what we will face and strategy ideas see Arathorns AWS (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=89439) game. Arabs and America should be done in 10-20 turns. We can then move to Japan and Egypt on your turns. For that my advice would be to take out a few coastal Japanese cities where you can cut all the roads with dromons land with AC and take out the city on turn 2 and get back on the boats before their troops can get there. Then I would put a diversion pike or 2 on the North most mountain to draw the Japanese troops away and sign in the Egyptians at this point. They will help burn a lot of Japanese troops in the same way the American/Arab war did and we can just march down the Island.

Mark UP
Bed On Deck

The AI build an army :eek:

I think we should march up into Arabia after America is done

If we get any more armies we should save so they don't get stuck on that island, unless you feel you need them for the Arab attack

I didnt notice that, very unusual. I think we can take out Arabs+America within 20-turns. If I get another leader I will try to capture enough cities to form an army with him.

The AI build an army :eek:

I think we should march up into Arabia after America is done

If we get any more armies we should save so they don't get stuck on that island, unless you feel you need them for the Arab attack

Scratch the word ARMY behind spear!! The AI didn't build an army at all!

@Percy: One thing to note is that a an army won't be attacked if reasonably strong in hitpoints. Our AC army for instance should survive with 8 to 9 HP's left on flat terrain until cavalry. By then we should have a knight or cav army, which should be OK until tanks! Infantry armies survive until the bombers age. When bombers come into play armies lose most of their power. EDIT: weak army mean nothing to the AI though. A spear army will be crushed by tanks... Our AC army is our passport to killing the Arabs and Americans quickly. So don't use it lightly :)

Another thing is that you always should aim to disconnect the vital resources and luxuries of the AI. Without horses and iron they are far less strong and very slow.

This slowness can then be used by pillaging the roads in neutral terrain. AI will then need more movements to get to you and by that time they can be bombarded by dromons and then killed. I used this tactic all the time.

In my last pic you see a lot of spears SW and NE of Atlanta. I neglected them, beause spears alone can do nothing but pillage. And they are free to pillage whatever they want in neutral terrain :)

Don't spread your troops too much. It's better to focus on one or two targets with a Stack of Doom than on 5 with 3 to 4 units.

Bombard the target first (with our dromons) and then attack.

Use the terrain. Land on hills or mountains if possible and don't cross rivers when attacking an enemy unit.

EDIT: If you don't have enough military to attack the opponent but DO have enough dromons (or artillery), just redline the most frightening units of that opponent and leave the stack alone. The redlined AI troops will run away like cowards!

On another note: we can't ship fully filled armies until transports -armies then are 4 units - the army itself also counts. So we have to disband our AC army at one point to create a knight or cav army at enemy terrain.

Every thing looks to be in great shape except for $$

1060: Bombard Philly with our dromons. It has 3 spears and LBs underneath. We take all with no losses and move toward Washington. (5-0)

1070: Bomb settler/spear/archer and take out with MI and AC (7-0). Sink arab boat in port.

IT: lose 1 pike to Arab archer beat another and beat a crusader out of Washington on defense. (9-1)

1080: sink 2 arab boats and take 1 arab archer (10-1).

IT win one lose 1 pikes vs LBs (11-2)

1090: Sink Arab ship in port and take 2 arab archers. Bombard and starve Arabs. (13-2)

IT: Lose 3 pikes (13-5)

1100: Assult on Washington
14/17Army vs vet Pike wins 9/17
9/17Army vs vet spear ouch wins 1/17 shouldn't have risked that.
MI vs vet spear loses –3hp
MI vs vet spear wins -2 hp
MI vs vet spear wins -2 hp
MI vs vet spear loses -1 hp
MI vs vet spear loses -2 hp
MI vs vet spear loses -1 hp
AC vs vet spear retreats –4h (17-9)
Still showing vet spear so we don't have enough to take this turn. We will get Edu next turn from the Arabs. I think I will make peace then with the Americans for tech and sign them up. It is too hard to take inland capitols w/o arty support.Sink 2 Arab ships in port.

1110: We can only get 1 tech. Although Astronomy is more expensive trebs would be nicer ATM. Pillage some squares and take peace with America for Miami, Invention, 549 and 45gpt. Abandon both Miami and Atlanta to prevent flips. Build embassy with Abe. He is working on the very important war fighting wonder of JS Bachs. Sign RoP and Alliance vs Arabs for 7gpt.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Washington.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Abe_War.JPG

Start Min on Banking. Switch Constant to Leos. Don't know why but I just want a wonder in the queue. I wouldn't mind Copernicus for future self research if needed. Although we can probably keep Arabs and America around as whipping boys to get techs.

IT Beat 2 archers on defense and get a leader lose 1 MI (18-10)

1120: Healing, blocking possible squares for Americans to found new city.

IT: Beat archer on defense (19-10). Zulu start Leos.

1130: Switch Constant to MI. Oh Well we don't really need any more wonders.

1140-50: Healing and positioning troops.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/1150.JPG

Summary: Well things did not go as well as expected. We will need to get some arty over for inland cities. Washington was a tough nut. I don’t think I could have taken it too easily and I am happy with the deal I got out of America. There is a blockade of Chicago so the Americans don’t go sending out ships. There is a leader and some workers waiting for transport home on the southern tip. Fortified pikes are blocking the possible city founding squares in neutral territory. Good luck Bed. The coastal cities should be easy and treb support is under production.

Bead Head 7 UP
Percy On Deck

Got it, but I won't be getting the save posted as quickly as usual.

I'm very happy with my decision to go for other cities before Washington. I have had other bad experiences with capitals before. So 'that's why I rather go for other core cities...

yup, i usually get my war movement crushed because i break my teeth on the capitol (i try to go for it asap because i'm still in the mindset of Civ2, when taking a capitol was the worst thing to do to a civ ^^)

Yes, I would not have gone for it but it was the only obvious choice at the time and we could have gotten lucky against only spears and 1 pike. But really without arty support it is problematic. The $$ and tech I got from America was well worth it though. Probably even better than taking them out now. With our dromons every coastal city should fall easily. If we can get 15-20 trebs we should be OK for the inland capitols as well. Once banks come in we should be OK for unit support and once we take the Japan/Egypt Island we will have 2 more lux and horses.

I think we did very well with america and we gave our best shot trying to take them out. It would have been nice to raze the capital and maybe leave them with a worthless city. That said,it's better to have some pet civs to advance into the next ages than to do it all alone. We can simply come back to America and raze a few places for new techs.

Once banks come in we should be OK for unit support and once we take the Japan/Egypt Island we will have 2 more lux and horses.

I agree with everything you said and want to stress that we have to keep the momentum going!

I am sorry; I cannot play tonight. If Percy has time, I would be fine with a switch, as long as Percy lets me know he took it. I should be able to play tomorrow night when I get home, though I am not sure how late I will be. If the team just wants to skip me, that would be fine. This game is rather time consuming, and while I have a fair amount of free time, I am having trouble finding blocks of time in which to play a game where there are so many units running around. Though I suppose I could play two turns at a time or something.

Sorry for going off there. More simply, do whatever. I don't want to slow the game this much.

I'd like to see us taking our time for the turns. I myself also don't have a lot of hours per week to play. There WILL be a time whereyou have to wait for 2 days or more for my turns. I believe that we agreed that that is fine. We are a bunch of dedicated players in an exciting game so I'm sure this one won't end prematurely.

no, i cannot play instead of you, because i probably won't be able to play before sunday afternoon, GMT. i'm currently preparing stuff to move back to london tomorrow, so i don't have time to play civ currently ^^

Pre - I am a little disappointed to find that the Zulu have reconnected their iron. Will see about changing that.

1160 AD (1) - Raze Damascus, which only had two defenders.

1190 AD (4) - Raze Baghdad.

IT - America makes peace with the Arabs.

1200 AD (5) - Raze Medina, I think. Well, there isn't a Medina anywhere else, and I think it was Medina. Lost one MI. Sign the Americans back in for 11gpt. With weaker American units to focus on, our units have not been attacked.

1220 AD (7) - Mecca is well defended, but should fall next turn.

1240 AD (9) - Eh, razed it this turn. Two lost AC. Also razed some other little city they just settled.

Arabs are almost done. Then we can turn around and take out the Americans. I would expect that by the end of ten, they'll both be gone. If so, I would land north of Satsuma on a mountain. There are no roads going in, so we can survive the first turn easily. Build an army with our leader (I forgot about it, and only sent a galley in that direction in my last turn) once the current one has no more use, and then drop it off north of Satsuma and fill it with three AC, I guess. Then we can just repeat what we did in Japan-Egypt.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_1250AD_arabs.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_1250AD_minimap.jpg

Has America tried to resettle their land?

Has America tried to resettle their land?

One settler poked out its head, and was then scared back into Chicago by an Arabian stack, which is another reason why I signed America back in.

i am sorry, i can't make it. as i explained in my other SG, i am badly ill today, and don't think i'll be able to free time in the coming week (i already must figure out a way to write due reports and do some work...)

i'm deeply sorry about that.

That must mean I'm up, I got it.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Theodora_of_the_Byzantines,_1300_AD.SAV)

Preturn 1250AD:

Turn 1 1255AD:

IBT:
See lots of Japan units moving

Turn 2 1260AD:
Raze Najran, no loses

Turn 3 1265AD:
Varna is about to starve, fire scientist, hire one in Nicaea

Turn 4 1270AD:
Land troops on Ice Arabia

Turn 5 1275AD:
Americans building Copernicus again
Americans complete Bach in Washington
Raze Kufah losing one MI

IBT:
America creates Houston

Turn 6 1280AD:

IBT:
Peace treaty comes up for renew, must accept to not break deals

Turn 7 1285AD:
Raze Basra, no loses
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Conquered_Arabs.JPG

IBT:
America has all our ships leave

Turn 8 1290AD:
Troops move back to America
Reblockade

Turn 9 1295AD:

IBT:
Zulu complete Leonardo

Turn 10 1300AD:

Notes:
Our leader is in Adrianople now
We have peace with America for 16 turns now, America will not declare on us because of our strengh
We are -45gpt now and have 1914gold left

Congrats on a dead civ.

Very good news our first civ down. :goodjob: .

OK I think we are:

Percy Skip
dl12345 Just Played
Aggie UP
Mark On Deck

Am I up already :sad: I HOPE that I can play today. If not, I'm in trouble (no time in the rest of the week at all).

EDIT: What's our plan now???

EDIT: What's our plan now???

Wait for the American deal to end (16 turns left).

Something I just thought of was to use our units waiting to attack America to blockade them to make sure they don't build any more cities.

Without having looked at the save: do we have to wait for this deal or can we attack another civ first? It feels like a long time to wait 16 turns... although it would be very nice for me to play 10 fast turns. I surely have time for that this night...But THAT should not be the reason to take it slower ;)

I really don't want to wait 16. We might consider breaking the peace. I don't really consider it dishonorable in this case, as we didn't gain anything in the renewal of peace.

I looked at the turnlog and I see that we accepted straight peace. I think that it is perfectly OK to break this treaty, as long as I haven't got troops in their territory while declaring war. We then won't endure a rep hit this way.

I will declare on America and try to eliminate them in my ten...

Try? You mean America and Japan? Getting rid of America shouldn't be a problem with the forces we have over there.

Yes please go ahead and break peace but with troops in neutral territory.

1350 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-1350AD.zip)

IHT: Awesome :eek: The world is still backward, except for the Americans, who are almost eliminated !!

IT: America kicks us out. This allows me to start the war next turn :)

Turn 1 (1305 AD) I delcare war on America and land a lot of troop N of Boston.

Turn 2 (1310 AD) The Zulu have Gunpowder :eek:

Boston had a pike, two spears and a longbow. I take it for 6 gold. [5-0]

Turn 3 (1315 AD) I land a SoD with 2 pike, 6 AC, 15 MDI and 20 trebs north of Washington!!

Turn 4 (1320 AD) Trebs get 5 spears to 2 HP and one to 3 HP in Washington.

We lose an AC and two MDI:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-Washington.jpg

Boston is abandoned and we keep Washington for ourselves :) [11-3]

Turn 5 (1325 AD) Nothing much... [12-4]

Turn 6 (1330 AD) Houston only took 2 spears to kill and:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4-Americagone.jpg

Now our boats are going to visit Japan!! [14-4]

Turn 7 (1135 AD) I land a small SoD on a mountain near Nara (Japan). And I form a new army after disbanding the old one (a bit late). We also have a first Crusader :)

IT: Our pikes on the Japanese mountain kill two archers! [16-4]

Turn 8-9 (1140-1145 AD) During these turns 16 Japanese spears enter Nara :mad: I have to wait for the other troops and the army...

IT: Nicaea riots :eek: How could I be so stupid :(

Turn 10 (1150 AD) I manage to kill 11 spears in Nara [27-9]

Watch out for Japanese galley to our south. Sorry for the slow progress. I could have taken out Nara earlier...

OK 2 down 5 to go. I'll see what I can do.

Mark UP
Bed Head 7 On Deck

I'm not very happy with my turns. I was too hasty and could have taken out at least one Japanese city if I only were more careful. Also that riot is very bad :spank:

Watch out for Japanese galleys trying to land on our shores. I had to upgrade two regular warriors to MDI to avoid a disaster there.

Pre: We Are losing $$ a bit fast so I decide to switch us to wealth for now. Disband a few warriors that are not needed for MP and we are @ -21gpt with 16 turns for banking. Peace With Egypt for 89gp. Alliance vs Japan + 4gpt for engineering. OK I do want gunpowder but that may be the last tech we need. I will wait one turn till I can blockade the Zulu expansion to the small southern island and then make peace and a trade.

1355: Bombard Nara. God I don’t know how many spears they have there but after about 60 tries they still show a 3hp spear and are size 7 on hill. No Attack. Starve them to less than 7 first. Start some Cathedral pre builds for banks. Drop Lux to 10% we are now –6/turn. OK you may dispute this but I want gunpowder. We will want plenty of muskets for the isolated Islands perhaps even a musket army in a city behind walls to burn down their attackers. Since we will not have the $$ for research and I’d like to start pumping them as soon as banks are done I make peace with the Zulu straight up. Can’t get GP for Mono, Damn. I don’t know what I was thinking I should have checked this in peace negations. Try a careful steal and we get it. Even better as we don’t advance the Zulu but it does cost us important $$, well we should be OK on $$ anyway once we have banks That was pretty weedy, not the peace as I think we want to do this before they get Astronomy so we can blockade better, but the tech buying/stealing.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Zimbabwe.JPG

IT: Japs remove lots of spears from Nara. :crazyeye:

1360: Bombard Nara with boats. The trebs have no where to go as they cant move on mountains and jungle. Take Nara @ size 6 with only 3 spears. Evacuate most troops.

IT: Nothing

1365: Land @ Osaka.

1370: Bombard and take Osaka. Only 3 spears and take with no losses. Begin move on Kyoto.

1375: Moving troops next to Kyoto. Land second task force on Mountain north of Kagoshima. The Japs have not been attacking unfortified Pikes on hills. I saw a nice stack of spears headed for Egypt.

1380: Bombard both Kyoto and Kagoshima and take both cities killing prolly 15 spears but losing 5 MI. Might as well start using our troops we have quite a few.

1385: Land at Satsuma.

1390: Take Satsuma no losses only 2 spears. Rush a settler in Washington. I would like to abandon Washington and get a city on the Jap/Egypt Island as we can then get 2 lux and Horses and Washington can’t have a harbor so we have to abandon anyway if we want to get the resources.

1395: Land near Tokyo.

1400: Bombard and take Tokyo no losses. Land some troops near Edo blocking about 20 Jap spears in Egyptian territory. You might be able to take next turn or certainly the turn after


Summary: Well unfortunately I signed us up for 20 turns of peace with Egypt (10 remaining). I think it did make it a bit easier as it drew off a lot of spears but was probably unnecessary. Oh well. I was concerned by the American-Arab experience where it was just a pain taking on 2 civs at once.

Note: 1) There is a settler/pike waiting to land on the Jap Egypt Island. I would found on old Tokyo site or where ever I guess it dosen;t matter much as we may want to disband eventually for the invasion of the remaining Islands. But it will give us horses for Knights and 2 extra Lux.

2)Cities are set to bank prebuilds and should finish the turn following its discovery. You could set them to finish same turn as long as you don’t forget to switch.

3)Leader in boat by home Island for next army.

4)I guess we need to honor our peace with Egypt so it may be kinda boring turns. We could trade them theology for all their $$ and gpt. We can certainly break that deal in 10 and they might get uppity and seal their fate sooner.

5)Sorry, I let Egypt get a city on that small Island. I should have been blockading and didn’t pay attention

6) In 10 turns I would say it is AW till the end. I think we are a bit heavy on trebs and I would disband the ones on the home Island and start making muskets. The prob with trebs is they are blocked by mountains/jungle and are not really needed except for inland cities. We certainly need some but we have over 50. Zulu appear to lack SP so that should be easier.

For next target after Egypt I would pick the Zulu. We might as well get them out of the way now before they advance any further. If we can take them out then the rest is clean up and our unit support is not going to get any better once the banks complete.

Bed Head 7 UP

Percy On Deck but maybe out for ths week

dl123456 Take it if Percy doesn't within 24 hr after Bed.

I have it.

Good job!! I'm all for taking out Zulu after Egypt, because they are the biggest threat but lack decent troops. That would change if they advance to Nationalism, making life more difficult...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_1450AD.SAV

1400 AD (0) - Adjust to get all Cathedrals on same turn as banking comes in, instead of one after, except in Nicaea which will need some disband help.

1405 AD (1) - Hold off on taking Edo. If we take it next turn, found our sixth city on Japan next turn, and have Washington, we can build our second army now. Of course, it won't be of all that much use since we hardly need either at this point.

1410 AD (2) - Japanese destroyed, Smyrna founded, army formed, Washington and Edo abandoned.

1415 AD (3) - I have no idea why, but four of our five cities went into disorder.

1425 AD (5) - Stupid Egyptians ask us to leave or declare. If we leave, it'll screw up the go to orders for the dromons headed to Zululand. Goodbye, Cleopatra.

1430 AD (6) - Five bright and shiny new banks, and gpt jumps noticeably.

1450 AD (10) - Ugh. I took an MP out of Nicaea and it revolted. I don't think I have even once remembered to look at happiness when moving units around in Monarchy. Probably a sign that I am too set in my early game, since most every game sees me build no units in Despotism and a try to get Republic as soon as possible.

Alexandria razed, I think without losses. I am not sure though, with all animation turned off.

Landing on the Zulu's island will be tricky. They have their mountains pretty well covered. The picture sort of shows that, but it isn't the best picture. Most of their mountain tilies are covered though, so the next player will need to look for the best landing spot while waiting for the convoy to arrive.

Hopefully there weren't any big blunders outside of the disorders. I played this really slowly, since I am having trouble focusing on anything for very long. I also apologize for what some consider RoP rape. I wasn't even thinking of it that way at the time. In my opinion though, since none of the units in their territory at the time were actually used against them, as we were just using the sea between their cities, it wasn't really RoP rape.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_1450AD_egypt.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM4_1450AD_north.jpg

Looks good. I don't consider it RoP if it's just boats and if you have no choice. It's not like it made much difference the Egyptians were done now or in a few turns. Now after the Egyptians the Zulu. This will be diff