Difficulty = Emperor
Civilization = Greek
Map = Pangea
Barbs = off
World Size = Standard 80%, Hot, Dry, 3mil

Variant AW, Soft OCC. We can capture cities and abandon before turn ends (for Armies).

This is a retry of MM3 where WE got smackeddown early as the Iroquois. We start in a very nice spot see below. We need some new players as RL has taken Greebley and Aggie.

Mark
Bed Head 7
Akots
LKendter
open
Romeothemonk

Here is our start.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-4000BC.JPG

The start seems promising with all these cows and ivory. ;)

If you put me at the end of the roster and do not expect an instant turnaround I could be up for it. I am not at your guy's level, but I am farily handy around civ.

Welcome Romeothemonk. This should play pretty fast with 1 city but there is no pressure.

With this start, I would advocate settling where the settler stands. Yes we miss the Colossus, but 4 cows, 1 sugar, 1 Ivory and at least 8 river tiles will be fine. Plus it will let us do the early archer rush. I would rather have 10 archers than the colossus in AW anyway.

With this start, I would advocate settling where the settler stands. Yes we miss the Colossus, but 4 cows, 1 sugar, 1 Ivory and at least 8 river tiles will be fine. Plus it will let us do the early archer rush. I would rather have 10 archers than the colossus in AW anyway.

Trust me, you need colossus. Your unit support is the most critical thing. OCC conquest game needs commerce more than anything else. Going for 10 archers is certainly short-sighted. You won't win the game fast.

You won't start building Zeus until 2nd expansion anyway, so there is no urgent need to get ivory immediately.

Move settler SE.

With this start, I would advocate settling where the settler stands. Yes we miss the Colossus, but 4 cows, 1 sugar, 1 Ivory and at least 8 river tiles will be fine. Plus it will let us do the early archer rush. I would rather have 10 archers than the colossus in AW anyway.



Well I probably shouldn't, but sign me up. One city isn't that big of a commitment. 10 turns may take less time then the city review in LK88.

Colossus is critical. If this game makes it to the Middle Ages income will be key to avoiding hopelessly behind in tech. Extra revenue helps avoid it.

Good luck to you all. With that start I think you have a chance. This will definitely be on my lurk list.

Welcome LKendter. Well we have 5 and could use 1 more but I will start tonight in any case. I do believe that Colossus is important and I will found 1 SE. The beauty of this site is that we can get to 20 spt very quickly and can do 30 spt in Monarchy. The key I think is doing 1 turn units and not losing many. How many units/turn can 7 AIs produce? If we lose more than 1/turn we are falling behind :eek: . We need this to be mostly over before MAs. Lots of Archers/pult/Hoplite stacks. Swords after we are in Monarchy and can do 30 spt but before that I would take 2 archers over 1 sword and 15 wasted shields. I'd say we research WC 1st of course then on to Math for pults and AC. Slot Colossus in there somewhere when units are maxed out. Lots of pillaging Hoplites will be needed as well.

Edit: We need the coast anyway as there may be islands.

Just hope that WE are not on this island. Definitely, the settler has to be moved to get on coast. We also keep cane and all cows in the radius. May be less exploration in this game? We need the maximal aggression of the AIs to kick in before we meet them so that they can start wars amongst themselves. When they have some human to ventilate their anger, they might be tempted to live in peace with the other AIs.

Interesting game. I'll lurk this baby. Best of luck :D

4000: Pic above was one step for worker and settler.
3950: Settler steps 1SE, worker irrigates.
3900: Founding reveals wines that will be in our boarders. Start warrior, research WC @ Max.
3700: We have an army of 1 warrior. Start another.
3500: We have 2 warriors and are size 2.
3400: 3rd warrior in start Rax.
3350: Russian Spear appears. Trade alphabet+11 gp for Masonry. Declare. Switch rax to 1 more warrior.
3300 cover worker with 2 warriors. 4th completes start Rax.
3250: spear retreats.
3050: 2 warriors show up.
3000: Rax completes. Start Hoplite. WC Drops in price due next turn.
2950: Switch Hop->archer. Fortified warrior wins on defense loses 3 HP but promotes. Wins a second time but is redlined. Loses to spear. WC in start math at min (best we can do ATM)
2900: Spear pillages our irrigated roaded cow. Cover other roaded cow with warrior.
2850: Spears retreat. First Archer completes
2750: German spear appears. They are up Pot and CB no deals declare. They have 2 cities and 2 workers for sale (I think they are at war :D ).

Well this is a little dicer than I expected. 2 civs already coming at us with spears. I went with archers as I would like to delay our GA until we are a bit bigger maybe for Colossus build. Once we build up some archers I would pull some workers off at size 6 for faster improvement and reincorporation to size 12 fast. We should be doing 10spt at size 5. With 3 cows irrigated we can do 5fpt for a 4 turn growth cycle w/o granary. 4th cow can be mined if we can protect our workers.

I took 25 to deal with Russian invasion.

Bed Head 7 UP Take 15
Akots On Deck Take 10


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-2750BC.JPG

Got it. May be able to get this back up tonight after some homework, as it shouldn't take too long.

2710 BC (1) - Meet America. They have the Wheel but we can't get it. We do get Pottery and 20g for Alphabet, though. Then we declare on America.

Then, for the rest of my turns produced archers, except upon reaching size 6, where I popped a worker. Lost one (?) archer and one regular warrior, while getting rid of quite a few more. There are some units up north to try to disrupt America, but I keep on attacking regular warriors as they poured out so I didn't have to deal with them around our home. Still no hoplites. By the way, if we ever are able to improve the other tile, we might as well irrigate it. It makes things more flexible for us, as we can work high food or high shields as necessary. Plus, mining won't do anything for us in despotism.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_2150BC.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_2150BC_america.jpg

Good work. Looks like te coast is clear for now. I would say archers/workers now then a few hoplites. Merge workers back to size 12 after work is done and start Colossus and GA.

Akots UP
LKendter ON DECK

I'll play today in the evening.

Hopefully, this one at least for now, looks more promising than the previous one. However, I’m not sure we can afford third worker. Not now imo. May be after a few turns. Hence, build switched to hoplite. We need to be on the safe side and guard our soon-to-be-hooked-up wines with this hoplite. Hopefully, he will not be attacked.

[1] Archers arrived at suburbs of Washington. Will be trying to raze it or at least pillage the area.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t41.JPG

[2] Hoplite ready, building worker, 2 more archers take off in the direction of annoying Russian archer. Our warrior-scout detects another Russian archer on the move. Elite archer (3/5) wins against American regular archer on the cow farm near Washington.

[3] Worker ready, building archer. Veteran archer redlines but kills spear in Washington. Attack with 3hp elite or not? I decide to attack, we killed the spear, but there is another spear, third one and our archer has only 2 hp left now. Well, Emperor AI is way stronger than Monarch.

[4] American archer advances to lift the siege of Washington. We retreat with one archer and pillage cow with redlined another one who is hopefully sacrificing his life for good.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t44.JPG

[5] Archer ready, making hoplite. Retreating from Washington to lick the wounds. IBT: Retreat not successful, enemy archers ambush us and kill all our brave soldiers. We need a hoplite up there certainly and the sooner the better IMO.

[7] Hoplite-hoplite. Two American archers chasing our wounded battalion which runs away in fear. But reinforcements are on the way! Beware treacherous Abe of the holy Greek revenge! Russia advances a spear and an archer towards our borders. Ain’t looking pretty at all. When Bismarck comes, his warriors will be only able to dance on the ruins of great Athens.

[8] We are making 14 spt and Athens is a city now. Time to start on Colossus since we are wasting a lot of shields.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t48.JPG

[9] Russian archer cowardly runs away blinded by the shining armor of our glorious hoplites. Killed American archer lured in the open. We also come to the suburbs of Moscow. Where is this Bismarck hiding?

[10] Lose archer near Moscow to Russian archer. Here is Eastern front:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t50a.JPG

And Northern front with two hoplites advancing as reinforcements.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t50b.JPG

There are only two units in Athens: regular warrior and archer. If Germans show up, we are in trouble. And the more the Colossus build progresses, the worse would be the consequences of this trouble. Hence, it might be better to keep the second hoplite around Athens. One plus 3 archers should be sufficient to pillage few important tiles in American lands. The remaining hoplite will be needed at home to shield the workers which are supposed to start roading towards ivory since our border expansion is due in 12 turns.

Beware, there is an American archer near or inside Boston! And good luck which we desperately need. So far, RNG rolls were rather even. Need some good streak.

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_1750BC.SAV)

Akots (just played)
LKendter (currently playing)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-1500BC.zip

1750 BC
This is not the type of tech position I like for AW. Researching at minimum risks permanent tech hole.


1725 BC
Scratch a Russian archer. (1-0)


1700 BC
The Germans have horses as I see a Chariot.
Scratch 2 American archers. (3-0)


1675 BC
Our warrior can't even hurt an archer. (3-1)


1650 BC
This isn't the time for a sadistic RnG.
Archer dies attacking archer. (3-2)


1625 BC
This is really bad, as I know our wines will get pillaged. I up the luxury rate to 40%.


1600 BC
This time I kill the annoying archer. (4-2)
(IT) A Russian elite archer attacks our hoplite and wins. :cry: (4-3)


1575 BC
I kill the Russian spear. (5-3)


1550 BC
The German chariot is dead along with the archer. (7-3)

==========================

Summary:
With no new units on the way this turn was a disaster. Losing the Hoplite about to pillage Russia really hurt.

Ouch, Looks like the RGN gods are against us we certainly can't stay on their bad side very long in this game. Are we going to survive to complete the Colossus? Min was the best we could realistically do on Math when I started. We should be accumulatng $$ for writing->lit at Max. I don't think we need any other techs before the GL as we should be @ 20spt in despo doing 1 turn archers/pults/Hops. We should be able to do 30spt in Monarchy with everything mined but will get that and all the other techs from TGL.

Romeothemonk UP
Mark ON Deck

I got it, but it will be ~20 hours before I can do this.

Are we going to survive to complete the Colossus?
We will survive. I had to pull the troops back, but we will last that long. The trouble is we are doing NO damage to the AI cities.

Yes we prolly weren't strong enough to get out and do early damage although we did have very bad luck. The key will be getting to 20 spt and getting pults then we can do some damage. We really need pult stacks to cut losses and 1 turn units.

Trick is to get hoplites to elite by winning over redlined archers. Then they are ignored mostly by the AI and moving them through defensive terrain also helps as well as covering with archers for defensive bombard.

Yes I forgot about the elite Hop being almost like an army although I think it will be attacked on flat land. We will need to get the later met distant civs extensively pillaged while we focus on killing the nearby civs. If this goes to Muskets with more than 1 modest sized civ left we are in deep trouble unless we can keep them pillaged. I think once we get our forces up and have a leader we should try for a 3 city capture ASAP for a real Army to be filled with AC :D . That would be awfully powerful for both pillaging and attack.

A quick question for the team. If I meet England, can I buy a tech for lots of gpt, then declare war? It is turn 4 and the horrible RNG continues.

No, per turn deals are not allowed in AW games. Only what we have on hand can be traded.

IHT: Move a tile around to get to 15 spt, instead of 14 spt.
Turn 1: Lose a vet archer to a reg archer. (0-1) Our worker plans do not seem to organized. Wines hooked up, lux to 30%
Turn 2: We get our border expansion. Will work on hooking up some ivory. Eliter archer kills reg archer. (1-1)
Turn 3: Lose a 3 hp elite to a 1 hp reg archer in the IBT. Nuts. We build a statue. (1-2). Kill 2 hp vet archer. (2-2). War declared on England, No trades.
IBT: German sword attacks our designated pillager hoplite and we get a GA. Sorry y'all, didn't know he had swords.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5goldenage.jpg
Turn 4: Lux to 20%, merge in 1 worker to get to 20 spt. Helaing and moving our few remaining troops. Doing 1 turn archers.
Turn 5: Our elite archer dies to an elite russian archer on flat ground. (2-3). I kill him and his buddy and our 2 remaining archers promote. (4-3)
Turn 6: Archer to hoplite, so we can connect our ivory.
Turn 7: Hoplite to archer again. The germans have multiple swords but are chasing our hoplite.
turn 8: Russians and Americans advance some archers in. Germans have been advancing a pillaging spear. I fortify our hoplite on a hill, hoping to get the German swords to suicide.
Turn 9: Germans kill our hoplite (4-4). Elite archer kills vet, vet kills reg. Elite archer kills reg German spear. 2 vets kill 2 American reg archers. (9-4).
Turn 10: Healing mostly. Most of our troops are on Sentry duty.
I think we should get 2-3 cats, and a few more archers and raze konigsberg. We have ~10 turns left before Germany can bring his swords around to us. I think we should listen to the Redhead and build more troops. :)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm05f3.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm05sitrep.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-1250BC.SAV

Our worker plans do not seem to organized.
The AI was playing to much havoc during my turn causing them to have to scramble when I had not enough units to guard them and the capitol. They moved more then once to avoid death.

Looks good. We should do 1 unit/turn until Feudalism. Time to build up some cats and take it to them.

Mark Playing
Bed Head 7 On Deck

Pre No change.
1225: Math Comes in Writing in 9.
1200 cat
1175 cat
1150 cat
1125 cat Portuguese warrior appears. They are up 4 techs but everything is too expensive so I just declare.
1100 cat _>Hop
1075 Our newly minted cats redline an archer and our Hop defeats losing no HP and promotes to Elite. Redline sword and archer takes it, again perfectly. Elite Archer vs Archer we win no leader.
1050 zzz
1025 Bombard and take 2 redlined swords and 1 elite win gives us our first leader. Writing in start Philo in 7

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/leader.JPG

1000 : Move SoD next to Koingburg. Start SoZ.

I went with Philo gambit as I think we can do it in our GA, its only 7 turn research. If it fails sorry then min on Lit. I don’t think we will be able to spare the shields on TGL for a while. If we do get Philo 1st you might consider currency instead of lit as this would give us a great cash boost for troop support now. However we risk TGL although I don’t think it will be a problem. However, TGL when built will probably get us Monarchy which will also be a huge cash boost but will take much longer. I’m not sure what I would do but if you take lit please start min on currency as it can take the AIs a long time to research this and we will need a market soon to support our armies. I’m very anxious to get a real army but I don’t think we will have enough troops to take 3 cities in 1 turn. So if you go with currency I would use the leader for a market. We will surely get another.

Bed Head 7 UP
Akots On Deck

Oops, I guess I never posted my got it last night. Oh well. It has been picked up.

975 BC (1) - Bombardment completely and utterly fails. No attack.

950 BC (2) - Bombardment completely and utterly fails. No attack.

925 BC (3) - Finally knock an hp off each spear in Konigsberg, and then raze the city with no losses.

875 BC (5) - Take out an American spear who seemed to be headed for the Ivory. I may be a turn off in reporting this, but GA ends which really slows down research, forcing me to cut it back.

800 BC (8) - Raze Leipzig. Lose two archers in killing off an American sword and two Russian archers.

775 BC (9) - Finally get Philo, and the gambit failed. Start min on currency, as we could really use a marketplace. At 10% research, we are generating 2gpt. SoZ finishes.

I was searching madly for anyone's source of iron, which is difficult when we don't know iron working. This basically meant pillaging all hills and hoping to get lucky. As we have invested only one turn into min on currency, perhaps we should switch to iron working, so we at least know where to pillage? Even on min, we get it in thirty something turns. Or I guess Lit, since we didn't get anything from Philo.

Also note that there is a German settler pair somewhere near the ruins of Konigsberg. The big stack passed it but decided to keep up on the search for roaded hills.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_750BC_pillage_america.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_750BC_pillage_germany.jpg

... I was searching madly for anyone's source of iron, which is difficult when we don't know iron working. This basically meant pillaging all hills and hoping to get lucky. ...

:lol: and :lol: again, this is a very peculiar strategy surely worth mentioning in War Academy! However, we know Philosophy and this is more important!

Will be playing shortly. Seems to be a funny game.

:lol: and :lol: again, this is a very peculiar strategy surely worth mentioning in War Academy! However, we know Philosophy and this is more important!

Will be playing shortly. Seems to be a funny game.

I am not sure what sort of application it would have in most games, so I can't imagine where in the War Academy that would fit. I did find myself laughing at how ridiculous it was even while doing it, but considering that hills are generally not a priority unless working on a trade route or connecting a resource, we may just get lucky. I already took care of Germany's southernmost city (not pictured, but south of Munich) which had a road, as well as three hill tiles in America, one of which has wine, so obviously not an iron hill.

I would do Lit. at min. Sorry I shouldn't have done Philo. It seemed that it was early enough on Emp but I guess not. A major blow sorry. We need TGL bad.

Yes, you are probably right. I was still thinking in terms of having gotten that from Philo when I selected Currency.

We need cash and units and situation is not good. After looking at the save:
1) We have an option to hire a scientist and do minimal run on either Lit or Currency or Iron Working. The latter seems more useful than the two former advances since we are in grave danger at the moment.
2) We can lower down luxuries to 20% after building another unit to guard on Athens.
3) America seems to be very powerful just judging by terrain and power graph and they are advancing with swordsmen. Little can be done to stop them.
4) We have absolutely insufficient force to take Munich. Is this force going to Berlin as well for reinforcement? Force around Berlin is rather strong but can we take the city and with what expence? Is it worth it or we better pull back on the defensive and try to win time for the Great Library?

I know, Mark is always optimistic but it does not look good even a little bit. We need to pillage iron and need to know where it is. And lost philo race made a huge hole in our budget. IMHO, we need to know where the horses are as well also since swords are unpleasant but horsemen would be deadly. Pillaging these resources seems critical. Let's discuss what is the best route for now.

The force near Munich are pure pillagers. Since we only have the one elite hop, the archer and cat are further deterrents against attack.

We couldn't lower lux to 20% even with another MP during my turns. Or do you mean if we have a scientist? As that is the case, that is probably the best course.

I think the main stack up there can do serious damage to the Germans, which would do us wonders, and also take out the iron. That group has razed two cities without losses and without relying on excessive luck, so I see no reason not to keep it moving.

As for tech, I really don't know.

Sorry on Philo but I really do not think we can afford to research the other things I think we need lit and TGL and to do as much damage in our local area with archers and pults and elite Hops for pillaging. Swords are no problem as they are just expensive spears for the AI. Horses are a problem but against Hops over archers/pults they will not be that effective. We can do min on Lit and maybe build MoM for happy future $$. TGL will get us in the game and is the best we can do ATM IMO. We should try to arrange a 3 city capture for an army. Just get lots of archers.

During preturn check, I decided to hire a scientists in Athens setting science slider to zero and produced hoplite Next turn. This turn cat is needed to repel American sword. We are still making 22 spt and can save some cash on luxuries. But it does not look very good although still position might be defended somehow. Research to Literature in 50 turns.

[1] Pillage-bombard fest it is but way too slow it goes.

[4] First AC ready.

[5] Kill a few units, lose an archer. Our home guard division of hoplites promotes to elite after surviving two swordsmen attacks. Three Portuguese warrior advance as well as 2 Russian archers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t96.JPG

[8] Kill 2 spears in Berlin but there is another there, if they rush the second interturn, the SOD has to retreat to heal. At 450BC our Colossus will become attraction and we can get a few extra coins. We are on negative cash balance and need to build MoM or some other wonder or start producing wealth soon.

[9] Another AC ready and we are at –3gpt. Berlin razed. Heidelberg razed as well. Germany is badly crippled and the SOD will try to advance north-east to America after some healing apparently. Killed total 5 units not losing a single ours.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t99.JPG

[10] Kill American archer/sword combo losing archer. It all looks defendable more or less with a bunch of units and AC running around. There is at least one spare hoplite to be dispatched to Russia or to America although there are 3 already pillaging Abe’s countryside.

I have set Athens to build MoM, not sure it is the right thing to do but the wonder is cheap, only 10 turns to go and we should be able to survive that without major problems considering 2 additional ACs we will get. We have maxed on units and Lit is still 40 turns away or so. Surprisingly, our military is strong compared to everyone but Russia, so I guess dispatching a pillaging hoplite/AC pair to Moscow is priority number one.

SAVE : http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_550BC.SAV

Sounds like very nice progress Akots. At least we should get another wonder out of Philo. I replayed and we only missed Philo 1st by a hair, if we lost a few troops and didn't have to turn down research we get it. Still I should not have risked it. I was actually thinking of taking Currency for a quick leader built Market and doing min on Lit If we can get together enough troops to take 3 cities in one turn we should do it for an army. With AC and 2 archer/cat stacks it might be possible. An AC Army should be a major goal as it would really do some damage.

LKendter UP
Romeo On Deck

Oh wow, we were that close? Then it was really my fault. I could have suicided a warrior one turn and then been able to get Philosophy a turn faster.

No it was not worth the risk. If I thought it would be that close I would not have done it. It is usually pretty easy to get on Emp even if you do a couple other techs first but it was not necessary as lit directly was not that much more expensive and would have been the safe play. We will be OK if we get TGL but it will really delay our flip to Monarchy and the cash boost from this.

We don't need Currency that urgently, besides there is no way to go faster than minimal research. MoM should help though. We will be able to decrease luxury rate to zero and in a few years we'll get some $$$ from it as well as a few cpt. There are no other luxuries visible around and anyhow building a colony now will be impossible. If we capture/abandon 3 cities before AI gets to Monarchy/Republic, the game will be probably lost because AIs are whipping spearmen heavily all over the place and we will get all the unhappiness transferred to Athens.

Good point on the happiness transfer I guess we need to wait for the Army. Well if we fish for elite Hops maybe they can do the trick.

I am glad to see Germany got crunched big time. There aren't dead, but there threat level is WAY down. :D


This is on the feast overload list. How is it I have nothing one day, and 5 another?

Still need to stay in cut down game mode for the moment.

It took me about 30 minutes to play, write up log and post all together. Some PBEM turns take longer.

As far as strategy I am wondering if we should not eleminate civs but take them down to one city and keep a small force of like 1 Hop/1 or 2 AC there to keep them pillaged and to whack settlers. I think that tech research gets cheaper as you eliminate civs and we don’t want this getting too far past Feudalism. Also, I wonder if it is not time to meet the remaining civs and start to pillage them with elite Hops. I wouldn’t want them to get too big or too far ahead. I know this was bad in MM3 but we did it too early there and didn’t have pillagers. I am worried about just leaving them alone (do we know who got Philo?).

I agree with Mark. I would try and get the MoM quickly, and just slowly chomp civs down to 1 or 2 cities.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-350BC.zip

550 BC
The situation I have inherited is very bad for the economy. We have $14 and are losing $3/turn.


530 BC
I have no choice but to disband our 2 natural workers. We still have a bleed rate of $1/turn.


510 BC
(IT) The unknown Mongols complete Temple of Artemis.


490 BC
I kill 2 Russian swords inside our borders. (2-0)
(IT) The enemy of America completes the Great Wall.
The English cascade and complete Mausoleum of Mausollos.
We are totally frelled. :cry:


470 BC
We are all but bankrupt. A granary would be useless. All the shields are flushed for a hoplite. I will have to disband one of the warriors.


450 BC
I have to switch to wealth to maintain any cash flow.

I kill 2 American archers. (4-0)
I kill 2 German spears. (6-0)
Munich is auto-razed for $0 and 2 workers.


410 BC
I kill a German archer. (7-0)


390 BC
I kill another German archer. (8-0)


370 BC
I kill a Russian sword. (9-0)
(IT) A Russian sword dies on our hoplite, but no promotion for another pillager. (10-0)


350 BC
I kill 2 German spears, 2 American archer, 1 American sword, and 2 Portuguese archers. (17-0)
Frankfurt is auto-razed for $11 and 1 worker.



==========================

Summary:
Germany has been crippled. We can start working toward a spice colony.
America and Russia have been pillaged hard.

Nice kill ratio but we we need some $$. Do any of the civs we are attacking have $$ we could get from taking their cities? I guess we should take out the great wall city as first priority.

Romeo UP
Mark On Deck

Do any of the civs we are attacking have $$ we could get from taking their cities?
I have no idea. I never open up the trade screen during AW.

That's OK. I should have posted that this kind of spying is allowed.

I got it and will play tomorrow or so.

IHT: Nobody has any gold. Everything is just peachy, as I expect after following Lee.
IBT:
Turn 1: Since Spying is allowed, Germany has one city, we are in the culture lead and getting more cpt than anyone else.
IBT: Russians send 2 swords at us.
Turn 2: Move our SoD towards the Portugese. Pillage some incencse and some random Russians roads.
IBT: English start the Hanging gardens. Russians kill a fortified hoplite, lose to an elite pillager. (1-1).
Turn 3: Vet archer dies to redlined sword on flat. Kill 2 russian swords. (3-2). Kill an American archer and a sword. (5-2).
IBT: German horse shows up, we get a AC.
Turn 4: Kill German horse, Port warrior, 2 American archers. (9-2). Workers from German lands are almost back to home base.
IBT: Kill russian sword with Elite hoplite pillager. (10-2).
Turn 5: Move and regroup.
IBT: Not much
Turn 6: Prepare for portugese assualt.
IBT: Russians finally kill the elite pillager. (10-3).
Turn 7: Kill Russian archer. I think America is at war with someone else. (11-3).
IBT: Not much
Turn 8: Some smackdown time finally. Kill 2 spears and 1 horse in Leira, and an archer next to it and burn it to the ground. (15-3). Also kill two port horses. (17-3).
IBT: Lose an archer to a horse out of the fog by the ruins of Leira. (17-4).
Turn 9: Move some A cavs to support the assualts. Kill 2 port archers. (19-4).
Turn 10: Kill port spear and archer to continue ripping them apart. (21-4). Washington is cut off of all roads now.
I would take the hammer towards the ports and Germans. I bet that the ports are gassed badly, and they lack cities. The Germans are also up by the ports. Our economy doesn't totally suck, and our forces have gotten better since the start of my turns as AC are better than archers.
I couldn't resist peeking at this game and then playing on it.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm05150.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-150BC.SAV

Looking at the picture I should have been clearer. My intention was to use the 3 German workers to get us a connected spice colony.

I really don't see any need for workers at home.

I am actually trying to use the workers to build a road towards the American incencse. I also wanted to fill in a minor hole or two in our network by Athens.

Pre : No change. Looks like everyone is the MAs, this is not good, how did they move so fast? Send some AC to the quasi choke up north. I think we need to Keep a force up North to take out incoming troops and settlers while we focus on taking out Russians and Americans

IT: Troops moving toward Athens

130: zzz

110: England lands settler up north, Redline Russian archer and take with Hop, No promotion. (0-1)

90: North: Redline Eng spear take settler. Bomb Port Horse take with AC.
Athens : Bombard 2 swords and Arch from Russia and take with no losses (0-6)

70: North: 1 Port Horse. Athens: 4 Archers No losses (0-10)

50: Athens: Redline 2 American archers and take with Hops. One promotes to elite. (0-12)

30: North: Start move to better hill. Athens: Take 2 American Archers, No Promotions (0-14)

10: North Take up new position.

10 AD: An important year as we meet the Arabs from the North who lack writing. Writing + 6 gp gets us IW. Philo + 4 gp gets us Wheel. We can now see the critical resources. Well I feel a bit better as we at least got something out of Philo. Declare War. In other good news Yaroslav is an American City. Woo-Hoo they are at war,
North: Whack German spear/Settler with AC going to 1 HP but win. Also take out Port Spear/Archer/Settler no losses.
Athens: Take out 2 Rus swords and an American Spear no losses. (0-20).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Arabs.JPG

30AD: Take 2 Russ Archers (0-22). Move into position on Russian/Port Cities.

50: AD: North: Bombard and take Port Town by horses 2 Elite Archers vs 2 spears fortified on mountain no losses. Take Arab warrior Settler pair.
Athens: Take Russian Spear/Settler with AC redlining to 1 HP. Take Russian Town near Athens with 2 spears no losses. Take Russian Sword. (0-28)

Well I had no losses which is great but we are in bad shape for $$. I do not think we can press a major offensive ATM . The most important development is that we can see all the resources and can pillage. The AIs must be close to Feud and I do not want to face Pikes and MI much less Knights. Resources are marked on the Map. I was hoping to March on Rostov which has Iron but I’m not sure we can spare the home defense troops. Up North I would just consolidate our position and whack troops coming down.
We must have TGL to have any hope. With Market in Monarchy I don’t think troop support will be a problem. I am a little worried about it so please be sure to start Granary pre-build before it comes in you can time it and switch when the tech comes in. Finances will be a problem and I think we might just hold the North and defend at Athens. Might disband a cat or 2 and send some Hops North to pillage. Port still has horses but no Iron. England same. Forgot to check Arabs. America has both and Russia has only Iron. It is important the we only have Iron and horses to win this. I never want to see a Pike or MI much less a Knight.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/50AD.JPG


Bed Head 7 UP
Akots On Deck

I do not think we can press a major offensive ATM
We are very much trapped between a rock and a hard place right now. We have crippled Germany, and probably Portugal, but this isn't enough. The trouble is we really need the GL to fix the tech picture, but it is a very late start for it. However, if we fix the tech picture, then we may risk the AIs getting to strong.

Sorry about the tardiness of my pick up (still not a pick up, actually, as the other computer isn't on).

Played my turns (well, actually played one of akots' turns as well by accident, though I suppose he can always steal from the next to make up for it). However, have to leave for work in a few minutes, so no time to get all my screenshots and put thoughts in order, so the save will have to wait five to six hours (or maybe less, depending on how busy the restaurant is).

Important news: GL in 14 turns, iron and spices hooked up, and we are still have the strongest army in the world.

Sounds very promising. So the current goal seems to survive for 14 turns to get the Library built.

Our colonies:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_260AD_colonies.jpg

Pillaging progress:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_260AD_rus_pil.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_260AD_ame_pil.jpg

Interestingly enough, what is now our iron colony and the source of iron near Boston were both pillaged during my turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_260AD_north.jpg

I think we should keep a few units up north to stop the flow of units from Portugal, England, and Arabia into what used to be Germany. There are four cats, a hoplite, and two archers, with an AC on the way. I think another AC would be helpful. Our horse colony will be destroyed next turn, by the way, but we have enough slaves that a wasted one on that colony isn't a big deal. Also in conjunction with the above, the old German source of iron was right where I left the stack after my last turnset. Maybe akots was right about turning that into an article...

Here is the force in Russia, which just finished off Rostov:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_260AD_rostov.jpg

And our great city:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_260AD_athens.jpg

Not sure that my post was worth the wait, but I had a lot of fun playing these turns, and wanted to do them some justice.

Got that, will be playing shortly.

Preturn. We are building TGL but can mine 2 plain tiles and get 2 extra shields per turn. Not that it matters much but still it might be a close race. Looks OK, hopefully we can survive for 14 turns.

[1] Arabian horsemen appear up north and America spear encroaches to pillage our iron and spice colonies. Kill a few units, mostly healing.

[2] Kill 2 Arabian horsemen and a few archers.

[3] Lose 4hp AC to archer in the open, kill assorted units from all over the world. Raze New York at a price of elite archer but gain 12g in the process as a plunder and a slave. Two English and two Portuguese horsemen spotted in the north. 10 turns to go for the Library. I hope we can survive this.

[5] Library ready in 8 turns. I wish these plains were mined sooner. There are lots of units coming from the north and mostly horsemen. It does not look good without a choke. Total our scouts have spotted about a dozen assorted units coming our way. England landed a horsemen near Athens which has been dispatched of promptly.

[7] Kill assorted units but we are not doing very good. There are a few enemy horsemen in our backyard, still too far away to pose a real threat though. Russia is becoming a bit too powerful, I dispatch American pillager hoplite over there to wreak havoc.

[10] It is a tough situation, really many units running around. Not that we are in real trouble but it is just annoying. We actually have no contact with Mongols. Cats were not very efficient during my turns, bombarded mined hills near Ekaterinburg for 3 turns with 4 cats and failed to destroy improvements. Library ready in 4. I was tempted to play to its completion but will leave the joy of finally rushing the market and revolting to Monarchy for the next player. Apparently we would need to mine the cows near Athens and then can make over 30 spt or at least 30. Beware, Russia has a few horsemen!

Here is the Russian front:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t150a.JPG

And the northern mountain army group:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t150b.JPG

SAVE: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_350AD.SAV

I guess I really should do more detailed turn logs. Not that it would have helped your turns, but it would have helped you understand why the situation was as it was.

A few units were dropped off the same turn as a couple of Americans and a couple of Russians entered. I couldn't deal with it all in time, so a couple of tiles had been pillaged, including a cow. Meaning the slaves had been busy getting tiles back to where they had been, and only in the last turn did we even have surplus food.

We can block all the worked tiles near Athens with hoplites after we finish TGL and revolt. Also, we hit 1000 culture in a few turns as well.

I don't know if it is necessary to do all of that, but once we get TGL we should be in very good shape, I would imagine. One turn swords for awhile, and maybe some one turn horsies to keep our AC company, and we'll be able to roll over our nearest neighbors.

Mark1031
bed_head7
akots
LKendter <- up
romeothemonk <- on deck

Got it.

@bed_head7 - thanks for the roster. I didn't even realize I was up.

I figured that that was the case, since you are so prompt in your pick up most of the time.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-450AD.zip

350 AD
(IT) We lost our stack of workers and catapults that was left without escort when I got the game.

We may have a large American Stack coming our way.


360 AD
I recover the catapults at least. I kill the offending Portuguese horseman. (1-0)
I kill an American Sword. (2-0).


380 AD
This is getting ugly. I count 12 archers getting close to the capitol, and I don't have much in the troops to deal with them.
I kill 2 English horsemen. (3-0)
I spot 3 Portuguese horsemen and our AC is over exposed.
I kill 1 American archer. (4-0)
(IT) We do lose the exposed AC. (4-1)
The Great Library is completed.
American completes the Great Lighthouse (was this a cascade?).


390 AD
I kill 1 American archer. (5-1)
I kill 1 Russian archer. (6-1)
(IT) The GL gets us to Monarchy. To survive I feel we have to risk an immediate revolt. We have 3 MA techs: Monotheism, Theology and Feudalism.


400 AD
Pyrrhus awakes from his long sleep and rushes a marketplace that will complete during anarchy.

I kill 2 Russian archers. (8-1)
I lost one archer. (8-2)
(IT) The hoplites defend Athens flawlessly killing 4 American archers. (12-2).
We do get pillaged, but I didn't have enough units to prevent that.


410 AD
I kill 3 Portuguese horsemen and 1 American archer. (16-2).
Amazing Ancient Cavalry appears giving us a leader. I decide to rush a temple in the capitol while we are in anarchy.


420 AD
Our economy is saved as we are now at +36 gpt. We can start building units like crazy.
I kill 1 American archer, 1 American spear, and 1 Russian archer. (19-2)
(IT) As expected another tile is pillaged.


430 AD
I kill 2 American spears, 1 American archer, and 1 Russian sword. (22-2)


440 AD
I kill 3 Russian archers, 1 Russian sword. (26-2)


450 AD
I kill 1 Russian archer. (27-2)

==========================

Summary:
We have 2 new elite hoplites. One is by our iron colony to start pillaging Portugal. The other is heading toward America to make sure then didn't fix any roadwork.

It is time to get back on the offensive, as I have cleared the unit rush inside our borders. We need to start razing American and Russian cities.

Got it. I will really try to raze a few cities.

Sorry, I was away for the weekend but it looks like you all made good progress. One thing we should try ASAP now that we can field more troops is a 3 city capture for army.

Looks like it was a close call indeed. If it were more than 4 turns, I'm not sure we will be able to survive. But now the future seems bright. :)

@Mark: I doubt we need this, we can win without an army imho. It is not worth all the hassle. Having 40 units should be enough to take care of Emperor AI.

IHT: MOve some troops across the river. Re MM the tiles.
Turn 1: Kill 3 arab horses. (3-0). kill 2 russian archers, promote 1 AC, retreat a 2nd, find the elusive russian iron.
Turn 2: I spot a mongol city. Will investigate. Lose our elite * archer on a reg spear that would have pillaged our iron/spice road. Kill him witht the elite AC guarding spices. (6-1). Killed an American and a russian archer. (8-1).
Turn 3: Kill 2 english horses, retreated to heal. (10-1).
Turn 4: Kill 2 russian archers, and an arab warrior (13-1). Kill an arab horse (14-1).
Turn 5: Really good news, we get engineering. Yes. No more stupid river. Kill 2 port horses, and an American spear. Just to prove the RnG is still there, we lose a 5hp AC to a redlined arab horse. (17-2). Meet the Mongols, pull the trade, declare war.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm05A.jpg
Kill American spear. (18-2). Kill port spear by colonies, kill American archer by Philly. I am going to stop Rocky 6 before it starts. (20-2).
Turn 6: Dangit. I made a mistake and the Arabs blow up our spices. No riots though. Nuts. Kill arab archer. (21-2). Kill german archer trying to pillage. (22-2). Bombarding blew up the rax in philly. 2 AC's kill 2 spears and kill America's biggest town. (24-2). +2 slaves. Kill a russian archer as well. (25-2).
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm05b.jpg
Turn 7: Kill German archer, 3x russian archers, and a russian sword. (30-2). Kill another Russian archer. (31-2).
Turn 8: Ports pillage road to iron. upgrade 10 cats to trebs for 300 gold. Kill russian sword and archer x2, but lose a MDI to a reg archer. (34-3).
Turn 9: Kill 3 port horses, get my first promotion in ages. (37-3) Kill port archer and arab warrior. (39-3).
Turn 10: We now make 30 spt. Yay!! Kill english horse x4, arab spear, arab horse. (45-3). Most units have a move left including the trebs. This is to allow the next player to make an offensive move. We really need to kill either the Americans/russians, or the Germans/ports. I was busy playing D and MM'ing but we have 30 spt now, better units, and we really need to take someone out.
My Pillaging means that the Russians have no horses or iron now, and we need to hurt them soon. I am inclined to take out America then russia, while playing defense everywhere else.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-550AD.SAV

Wow what a change 395 in the bank and 33 gpt and we can do 1 turn horses. I am a little worried about the tech pace. TGL is almost over and we have not taken anyone out. We really need chiv and I hope we get it from TGL. THis is far from over and I really think an army to pillage the north while we take out the south would be a good idea. If we face knight to knight (or ansanr,keshik) we are in trouble.

Mark UP
Bed Head On Deck

I am inclined to take out America then russia, while playing defense everywhere else.

I agree we need to kill some civs. I got us past the crunch from building the GL, and now that we are building units like crazy. America is weak is is a good first target.

We need to limit our offensive target to one very narrow area.

...If we face knight to knight (or ansanr,keshik) we are in trouble.

No real trouble until cavalry. Then the real trouble will start. We will certainly be able to survive to that point. Hopefully, research will slow down around Chemistry/Astronomy.

Seems that time to kill has come finally. America might be the first to go before they get Gunpowder.

@romeothemonk - Elite hoplites are pretty much ignored by the AI. I noticed the elite I had starting to walk toward America stopped at the mountain. I am curious why that unit didn't go pillaging? We need to do everything we can to keep the AIs stuck on longbows and spears.

Elite hoplites were not ignored during my turns for some reason. They redlined a healthy one twice, which was why Russia was not as pillaged as I would have liked at the end of my turns.

The Americans were really picked clean during my turnset, and I really needed all the units during my 10 turns. I really picked the Russians clean on my turns though.

Pre: things look a little rough to me. We have lost the hold up north and lack iron and horses.

560: Kill a bunch of troops. Kill American settler. Switch to archer builds. I assembled a task force of 5 trebs, 2 MI, and 3 AC under Hop cover and head them toward Boston and our nearest horses.
570: Kill some troops. No losses get leader. Which I use to build Cathedral. Iron reconnected.
580: More carnage. No losses
590: Chiv comes in and I start KT. I know some may dispute this but I think it is worth it, if nothing else it will help with home defense.
600-630: Fending off troops. We reach the gates of Boston but the trebs hit only the Rax and temple. Second round we take a few HP off of the 2 Pikes defending and take the city loosing 1 MI. Unfortunately, the damn horse is still in Washington’s cultural boundary. I had the road out there ready and everything. I have to retreat some of the ACs as Athens is under too much pressure. Washington will have to wait for a few rounds.
640-650: I think I lost like 1 Archer and I know I lost 1 elite AC at full strength vs a 1 HP Mongol devil sword.

Sorry for the sketchy write up but its late and I been a bit busy lately. We need the horses bad so I think Washington should be the next goal. Once Athens is secure and KT is in you could whip out some archers for home defense and send out the AC on Washington. I left the 5 trebs out near the site of old Boston. Once we have horses and iron on line we can do 2 turn knights by short rushing a MI to 40 shields. This will cost 40gp every 2 turns.

Bed Head 7 UP
Akots On Deck

Same as MM4, I can play Sunday morning. If a problem, akots can jump in before me.

Nope, not in a hurry here, will wait unless somebody else is eager to play.

My main goal for these turns was to take all pressure off the capital, if at all possible. After that, I was undecided between getting knights and trying to get an army and then getting knights. In the end, getting knights won out as a priority simply because of its practicality. However, akots should not have too much of a problem getting us three cities for an army during his turns.

A few turns in, I recieve this notice:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_690AD_gl.jpg

Oh well. It lasted awhile. By this time, there are only a couple units floating around our borders, and no direct threats. Slaves are roading so that we have a decent setup for claiming three quickly.

In other wonder related news, we also finish the Knights Templar, and our first Crusader will recieve his sword and shield during my last turn.

Our stack finally reaches Washington, and our trebs set to work bombarding. I discovered that Great Wonders can be destroyed through bombardment (the Great Wall was destroyed as well later on).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_710AD_wash_gl.jpg

Unfortunately, the Russians laid down a city near the horses, and a horse colony was still just out of reach. The stack that took care of Washington moved toward the new city, and by the last turn, managed to destroy it.

As the pressure was taken off the capital, a small stack was formed to harass Russia, as I had been doing during my turns. In 740AD, Yekaterinburg burned (and apparently the picture went up in flames). Russia, though unable to build much of use, has lots of cities able to build archers, as our pillager (who didn't do much pillaging) discovered. They will last a bit longer than I had expected they would.

Sun Tzu's Art of War was built, by the Portuguese I believe (another lost screenshot), so we should begin to actually see some veteran units. I also saw a couple veteran swords marching down from Mongolia, so perhaps barracks in other places are in progress.

Left active for akots are a few workers. I was considering recolonizing spice, as I think one more luxury will allow us to go without luxury. It might be two. I forget. The crusader is also fortified with moves still left in the capital. I would probably be sending him to one of the three cities in the next picture, but every player is comfortable with a different amount of defense in the capital. If the crusader is removed, then the only units left will be those healing. That was basically what I had the whole time, though, and since we have a lot of fast units it was not a problem at all.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_750AD.jpg

I think these three cities can make decent targets for our army. The scattered stack that took out Washington, plus one of the AC on the way up that could use some healing, should be suitable to take care of Atlanta. A couple of MI, the two trebs, and maybe an AC or two should be able to take out Yamama when you are ready, and then Muscat could probably be taken by a crusader and a couple of AC whenever the rest of the cities are ready to be attacked. Taking a couple turns to heal and then attack will probably mean a bit of pressure from archers and a couple swords at the capital, but I doubt it will be anything to cause any worry, especially since we'll now be able to do 2 turn knights for the rest of the game.

Nice Progress. I think we should do min on banking if you haven't already. I know Akots doesn't like the idea of an army but we could really use it to pillage the northern civs which would make life a lot easier. If they get to cavs it will be essential, we cannot afford to face cavs and it would be hard to research there ourselves.

Akots UP
LKendter ON Deck

I didn't do anything with research. I do not even know what was autoselected when we got Education. Or were we working on something else?

I knew akots didn't think it was a big deal, but getting one should not be too difficult here, and why say no to an army?

Banking seems good, I got it, will play soon.

Preturn: I decide to rebuild the spice colony and defend it with a hoplite. We also have enough slaves to block all landing tiles around Athens. Some might consider this as an exploit though. The slaves can be also sent to Athens and disbanded there or kept covered by the troops in case there is a need to build a road. We also need to mine the plains by the river to get a few extra gpt.

[1] Kill assorted enemies and rebuilt spice colony, luxuries to zero, research min on Banking. Preparing to take 3 cities: Yamama, Muscat, and Moscow or Yaroslavl’ (not sure about the last two). First knight in action! It feels good.

[3] Five attacker and 4 trebs are ready to storm American capital, 3 attackers around Moscow and two Arab cities can certainly be taken next turn. Yaroslavl’ is on hill and has pikeman on top, close call it is.

[4] AC redlines but takes out the pike in American capital. Second AC attacks, kills the spear and we capture the city!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t194a.JPG

Two other Arabian cities captured without losses, army built! Apparently will be loaded with AC for speed.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t194b.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t194c.JPG

Cities abandoned. We kill English spear/settler pair and get yet another leader! I’ll use him up for Heroic Epic in Athens. Not that we need it, just don’t see anything more useful atm. I’m sure we’ll get a few others before Banking comes up. We can also rush a Coliseum and may be Library but the latter two improvements might be pretty useless.

[5] Heroic Epic rushed. It is just for fun, I understand it is completely useless. Our glorious troops raze Moscow. Russian government escapes to Vladivostok. This might enhance their overall production but we will certainly face less units in the long run. Moving in for a kill of America. We lose 2 exposed knights in the interturn but little could be done about it.

[6] America has been finally eliminated at the cost of elite AC.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t196.JPG

It now comes to Arabia and England, two strongest AIs. Russia is also very annoying with a horde of archers wondering around. Unfortunately, army cannot go north immediately and has to deal with two stacks of Mongol swords coming to Athens. We get another MGL in the interturn on the defensive but alas, he does not survive.

[8] Army is down to 1 hp and runs to Athens to heal but there is no end seen to Mongolian swords, they keep coming and coming. England starts on Copernicus.

[10] Another Russian city razed. Athens is under considerable pressure still. IMO, we need to assemble an offensive group of a few knights and start razing cities while keeping defense around Athens with crusaders.

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_850AD.SAV)

Great work Akots. This is starting to look much more promising with an army up north we shouldn't have to face too strong of units.

LKendter UP
Romeo On Deck

Akots - Just Played
LKendter - Got it

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-950AD.zip

850 AD
I don't understand why we built an ancient cavalry army with knights available. I would appreciate an extra point on offense and defense.

This game has gone on a lot longer then I expected. There is finally one dead civ, but I expected to be in wrap up mode by now. Without the ability to keep up in research this game must end before rifles.

I don't know what Mark's policy is, so I leave the worker blockade by the coast. This violates my house rules, but mine are a bit stricter then average.

I am glad to see Akots built a spare iron colony near the horses. I was thinking the same thing should happen.


860 AD
I kill 2 Egypt swordsmen. (2-0)


870 AD
I killed 1 English spearman and 1 Portuguese spearman.
I lost 2 AC to injured spearmen. (4-2)
It looks like my time to suffer with RnG attitude. :mad:
(IT) A Russian archer is killed. (5-2)


880 AD
This is frelling absurd. I lost a healthy, elite AC to a *1 hp* spearman. :wallbash:
I killed 1 English spearman, 1 Mongol archer, 2 Portuguese horsemen, and 4 Russian archers. (13-3)
(IT) I watch England kill an Arabian settler pair. :dance:


890 AD
I killed 2 Portuguese spearmen, 1 Portuguese archer, and 1 Russian archer. (17-3)


900 AD
I killed 1 Portuguese archer. (18-3)
(IT) A Mongol sword dies promoting our undamaged hoplite to elite. (19-3)


910 AD
I killed 1 Portuguese archer and 2 Russian spearmen. (22-3)

I razed Novgorod.


920 AD
I killed 1 Russian archer, 1 English longbow , and 1 German spear / settler pair. (25-3)
I disbanded the workers as there are to many units between them and getting home.


930 AD
I killed 2 English spearmen, 1 English longbow, and 1 Portuguese archer. (29-3)
I razed Warwick.


940 AD
I killed 2 Russian spearman, and 1 Portuguese horseman. (32-3)
I razed Vladivostok.
(IT)


950 AD
I killed 2 Arabian spearman, 4 Portuguese archers, and 1 Portuguese spearman. (39-3)

==========================

Summary:
With the army by Russia I really hope we can kill there northern holdings quickly. I would hope the could be reduced to Smolensk shortly.

The attack force by Portugal will be fully healed next turn and can head toward Evora. The units are junk, but Portugal is sending a lot of them.

Once Mansura is razed please bring those buckets home. I didn't like defending the homeland with almost no artillery. I would prefer not to have to build any more like I did during my turns.

I see it and it is on the list of games to play.
How is our unit support? Can we build more knights??
Good work on wiping out some cities LK.

I see it and it is on the list of games to play.
How is our unit support? Can we build more knights??
Good work on wiping out some cities LK.

We still make +24 GPT with a ton in the bank. We can keep pumping out military, and enjoy the free units for a long time.

I don't know what Mark's policy is, so I leave the worker blockade by the coast. This violates my house rules, but mine are a bit stricter then average.


In this case and am OK with it. On an Island map blocking the whole Island I would consider a no no as I think is a somewhat standard SG rule. I'm sure we have enough military units to block the desired squares around Athens if people are uncomfortable with it. It's just the military units need to be continously repositioned and the workers can just be fortified so I would view it as a convienence rather than an exploit in this case.

EDIT:Don't forget we can spend the money to short rush Knights in 2 turns.

The way the workers are placed, they are blocking only workable tiles but there are a plenty of other tiles to land and threaten the Athens. Otherwise, the governor messes up with production and we lose a possibility of building knights in 2 turns. So, not our fault here but the glitchy governor imho.

@LK: We did have only a single knight available to join the army iirc and Mongolian swords were coming. Besides, extra hit points are also a good thing to have. I was thinking of a purely pillaging hoplite army at a certain point but finally decided against it.

@LK: We did have only a single knight available to join the army iirc and Mongolian swords were coming. Besides, extra hit points are also a good thing to have. I was thinking of a purely pillaging hoplite army at a certain point but finally decided against it.
Well I am very glad we build an offensive army. :)
It should hopefully finish off Russia shortly. That alone will earns its keep. We need less civs in this game.

I was not very happy about an army, Mark remembers. We could have won without it imho. So, I was thinking to try to spoil the fun at least by making a "passive" army. :evil: :lol:

But it is a hard game, not a walkover certainly like the previous one was on Monarch. Then, may be building a hoplite army was not such a good idea after all.

Yes I would say this is far from a walkover :lol: . If they get to rifles too soon we are in deep do do. Hopefully the AIs decide they need free artistry to fight this war :lol:

Hopefully the AIs decide they need free artistry to fight this war :lol:
Well they can foolishly continue to fight each other like I saw. :rolleyes:

That breather should be enough to eliminate Russia. :D

IHT: Not too much to do.
Turn 1: Raze Mansura, killing 3 arabs. (3-0). I have never seen education pop from TGL before invention, let alone on AW. Kill 2 russians at khavaborsk, and raze it, also kill archer. (6-0). Kill 2 more russian archers that were in my way (8-0).
IBT:
Turn 2: Upgrade our catapult. Athens Knight to Knight. Kill russian archer, port spear X2. Kill mongol sword and archer. Kill port archer (14-0).
IBT: See arab MDI.
Turn 3: Assualt Evora, get a retreat and then an MGL. Have a knight RL against a LB, but kill a LB and 2 spears, raze Evora. (17-0). See an arab ansar, way off in the distance. Kill 2 port archers and a horse. (20-0).
IBT: Mongol sword kills elite MDI on flat ground. (He was guarding MGL, he had backup though) Arag MDI dies to elite hoplite in hills, Ansar kills elite hoplite in hills by England. (21-2)
Turn 4: Moving and stuff. Ports found a city to claim horses, must deny that.
IBT: Elite hoplite kills mongol MDI, Elite knight retreats from port longbow. (22-2).
Turn 5: Kill 2 port spears and raze Rio Janerio. Kill 4 total russian spears and raze Tver and Kharaborvask. Kill port LB. (29-2).
IBT: See English caravel. Kill LB. (30-2).
Turn 6: Athens builds another knight. I have been short rushing to get them in 2 turns. Kill Russian archer, set up to raze some more cities. (31-2).
IBT: Lose redlined elite knight to an archer out of the fog. (31-3). A knight retreats and 5 workers way up north get captured. London builds Copes.
Turn 7: Kill 2 mongol spears and an archer and Raze UlaanBattar. (34-3). Kill 2 Russian Spears and raze Bryansk. 1 city left for Russia.
Turn 8: Kill 1 spear in Braga get 2 retreats. Kill Russian archer, kill mongol settler pair. Kill port spear (38-3).
IBT: Kill port archer with knight ( 39-3).
Turn 9: Kill 2 spears at Braga and raze it. (41-3). Lose full health knight to 2 hp horse on flat ground. (41-4). Kill russian archer near Athens. Kill the offending English horse. (43-4).
IBT: Germany founds a city at a really bad spot for us up north.
Turn 10: March on Tabriz, kill port spear by Athens. (44-4). Use MGL to rush a coloseum so we don't need 3 MPs all the time. Kill arab archer (45-4). AC kills mongol archer. (46-4). AC kills german spear X2 and raze nuremburg (48-4).
Not a whole lot we can do put charge forward into the fray. I razed a few cities and things are looking better now.
Here is a look at our minimap.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM05_Minimap.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-1150AD.SAV

It is nice to finally see a large block of empty on the map. :)

IT: We loose a knight/AC/Hop up North to English LBs and Ansnars. England is up all visible techs.
1060: I decide to leave Russia with a OCC. I am really worried about the Northern civs. Begin moving the Army and other troops from the Russian front.

1070: Bombard and raze Tabriz, no losses.

1090: We bring the Army to Newcastle and destroy it. Kill various troops.

1120: Raze Hovd with 2 spears in it.

1150: Killed various troops along the way I’d say I had a kill ratio of about 10:1. I have been doing the 2 turn knights throughout.

Things are looking pretty good right now. Army and most of our troops are coming together in the north and with treb support we should really start to walk all over the AIs.
I left Russia and you might leave Germany at OCC as I think it slows the tech pace but maybe someone could verify that. I would say we just march over the tech leaders before they get rifles. With the Army we should be fine.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/The_battlefield.JPG

I have it.

Bed UP
Akots ON Deck

BTW I will be away for about 4 days starting Sat. I expect to see a lot of rubble when I get back.

I left Russia and you might leave Germany at OCC as I think it slows the tech pace but maybe someone could verify that. I would say we just march over the tech leaders before they get rifles. With the Army we should be fine.

I really don't know how much a 1CC civ affects the tech pace as they are researching at last. However, at this point they are NOT the threat for rifles. I agree with pushing toward the big guys. At least at this point the number of Russian archers should be almost none.

1160 AD (1) - Kill a bit of everything without any losses, and pop another leader.

1170 AD (2) - English leave a settler undefended to capture a slave of ours. So we pick up two for the price of one. Still no losses.

IT - Some Mongol MI come out of the fog and make me pay for overreaching a bit.

At this point I forget my effort at a turnlog. To summarize, I accidentally lost a couple of trebs to the English, when two Longbows managed to beat two elite hoplites fortified on mountains. Our main stack is intact. My good luck of the first couple turns did not continue, but we did fare pretty well. We had a knight near Russia, and I decided to just try to finish off Russia. I don't see how it would have any effect on tech pace. Germany is also in the way, and I half heartedly tried to get rid of them. I feel like controlling that choke will make things a lot easier on us. I also tried to destory the Portuguese city nearest to us, Faro, without any luck. My main goal was to try to get rid of all cities past the choke, as once we control the choke and have nothing behind it, we can much more easily control the flow of settlers into the open lands. No more random settlers wandering in and settling on hills, forcing us to take the same spots over and over again.

In Athens, I've been doing the knight thing, though I did build one hoplite. Next turn, the leader can rush a bank. After that, I would suggest a few more hoplites, as they, along with Ancient Cavalry, seemed to absorb all of the bad luck in my turnset.

There is a lot of land we haven't seen, with three AI that haven't been pillaged in any way. So I am optimistic about the fact that akots could potentially eliminate three AI in his turnset, but worried about three AI that could end up making it the industrial age. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_1250AD.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_1250AD_mini.jpg

IMHO, we should leave Germany and Russia as single-city civs. The reduction in cost is rather small if they are eliminated and not for the first civ to discover a new tech but for the subsequent. And they migth be able as well to trade it sooner anyhow. We can probably somehow survive the inconvenience of occasional longbowmen showing up here and there for the price is rather small to pay for 5% slower tech rate.

Just a reminder about the tech formula:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29485

Perhaps we should leave Russia then. Germany really is in the way, though, at least in my opinion. We aren't able to use their roads, but our opponents are.

Well, we can pillage these roads. But still I'd leave them alone, may be a patrolling knight around just to scare off their workers.

We can always kill what is close to us imho. Unless it is really painful.

Well, I guess they are already mostly pillaged, so it can't make too much of a difference.

OK, I'll think about it some more. Having such a city in choke indeed seems rather inconvenient.

Preturn: Looks good. After some thinking: It might be better to eliminate Russia and Germany. Russia must go also imho. Even if they are unable to build a settler ever, they can eventually build a worker and start bugging our colonies up north with some wild spearman. Or get a gift of Nationalism from some other AI. They are useless as researchers and are behind us in techs. Besides, their existence is just plain annoying. They must be dead long time ago. Another aspect is that they might be trading with other AIs helping out even with that little gpt they got and they are occupying space which other AIs might be willing to settle. And better they build settlers than military.

In the interturn, Banking is ready and Astronomy is selected. We might need it since there can be a few islands on the map.

[1] Bank rushed with leader. Hamburg razed, Germany eliminated.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t241.JPG


[2] Athens builds bank, making 116 gpt at 90% tax. Lost elite hoplite and knight to LB but MDI survived the LB attack. Faro razed. IBT lost MDI and crusader to Ansars.

[4] Oporto razed.

[7] Battle for Lisbon. Bombardment reveals 4 defending spearmen. It is size 8 city on a hill, so not an easy take. But we did it. It had the Pyramids actually.

[8] Russia eliminated.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t248.JPG


[9] Started to disband 5 slaves at a time to get knight in a single turn. It costs 120g though but we can certainly afford that. Better than losing time. Emerita razed.

[10] Sagres razed, evil Henry caught and executed, Portugal is no more.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t250.JPG


However, there are plenty of Keshiks and Ansars running around and the map seems to take a peculiar twist to the left. It might be there is lots of land still out there. We better get to London at full throttle. There is Nottingham on the way and may be some other English city as well. Here is the way of the land:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t250a.JPG


Note to next players: We can build knight every turn. Disband 5 slaves, cash-rush MDI and then get remaining 30 shields. This is well worth it imho. We have bank and more than enough cash. Seems that shields are more limiting. The longer it takes for us to get a decent force, the higher chances are that AIs will get to riflemen.

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_1300AD.SAV)

@Bed_head7: Actually, the trebuchets have been recaptured.

There is not much of counterattacks from AI except a few wild ansars and keshiks with occasional longbowmen running out of the fog. Sometimes they kill a knight of ours or crusader, sometimes they don't. I guess we just have to live with these losses and rush as fast as we can to kill as much as we can. Speed might be more important. I felt like building slow units would be a waste of time. England has a decent culture, so their borders are mostly size 3 or 4 and it takes 4 turns to get with trebuchet stack to the city only to find out it is defended with 2 spearmen. Not sure how to deal with it. Also terrain is mostly mountains and hills and our army cannot pillage there while still covering the arty stack. If we can accumulate a few extra knights, taking out another city in addition to the arty stack, this is a really big help even if there are some losses.

WOW three civs gone in 1 set. The tide has turned finally. this looks very promising.

Thanks for getting those trebs back for me, akots.

We have some reinforcements from Athens moving to the front lines and these reinforcements can be efficiently used to pick up wondering AI units, no need to slow down the offensive. And we have enough trebuchets to take essentially any city with the help of an army stack which occasionally needs some reinforcements.

For example, in the last picture, the best move seems to advance the stack to silk tile, join as many knights as possible there and only then move forward. This means extra turn delay but:

1) It seems that London lies west of Nottingham hence we can move over there more rapidly if we advance to Nottingham from SW.

2) Army seems to be ignored and does not need defensive terrain for protection.

3) Knights in the stack can pick up wondering units. They won't be able to heal in the enemy land though but both keshiks and ansars have defense 2, so in most cases can be killed without major hit point losses. It is quite possible to leave the wondering units to reinforcements as well.

Still, it is rather slow and will take many turns imo. And once musketmen will appear, there would be no way to know where the saltpeter is. So, we might use the "pillage all hills/mountains/deserts" tactics similar to what bed_head invented earlier in the game.

Nice work Akots. This is really more of a challenge than I thought. We might want to crank out a Library and a Uni, then race for metallurgy. The techs should be cheap along that path as the AI is at least up invention.

LK-> UP
Me-> On deck

Got it for play tomorrow.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-1350AD.zip

Well the year I got the game makes sense, but it feels like I just played this one.
Progress has clearly been made, as there are now troops where I had a lone pillager last time.
I have to many exposed units near the front, so it will take a couple of consolidation turns before I can do anything.

1300 AD
(IT) England is building Shakespeare. I don't like anything that shows forward tech progress.


1305 AD
I never fail to laugh when an AI that you are at war with lands a settler next to several of your units.


1310 AD
(IT) The English complete Leo's.


1325 AD
Now this has to hurt.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-681.jpg


1350 AD
After 2 turns of assault and a lot of dead spearman London still holds.

==========================

Summary:
If you want to risk exposing the badly injured stack the army still has movement points left. I wanted to wait another turn to let the last of the healthy units attack.

Sorry about not much progress, but assaulting cities build on hills is tough.


Total kills: 13 spears, 4 keshiks, 6 longbows, 3 settlers, 5 pikes, and 7 aw.
Total losses: 2 Cru, 5 knights and 1 AC.

I got it. We will see if my penchant for destruction can extend to destroying the AI. :)

I looked at the save this morning. The main thing I noticed was on the f3 screen.
The Mongols and Arabs are republics, and we are strong compared to them.
The English are a Demo, and we are strong compared to them. I forsee some AI anarchy shortly. :evil:

I just realized that it was me who killed all the AIs in this game so far. Not me exactly, it just happened to coincide with my turns. Not my fault but I'm deeply sorry anyhow. I sincerely hope you can break this unfair tradition and kill England during your turns. :)

IHT:
IBT: Hoplite kills LB, Keshik then kills the hoplite.
Turn 1: Kill 2 spears and Raze London, Kill keshik. Kill LB (5-1).
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM05-1.jpg
IBT: Kill a Keshik with an AC, promote our guy. (6-1).
Turn 2: Moving back to attack Najran. Lose a knight on a pike, kill him with a crusader. (7-2).
IBT: York builds bach's. I build a galley.
Turn 3: Not much, moving slowly. Dang cultural borders.
IBT: Ansar warrior kills an AC. (8-3).
Turn 4: Kill 2 ansars and a LB, (11-3).
IBT: Keshik kills knight. (11-4)
Turn 5: Kill 2 pikes and raze Najran. (13-4).
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM05-2.jpg Kill 2 keshiks and a Settler pair and get this. (16-4). Kill ansar warrior at Athens. (17-4).
IBT:
Turn 6: Army redlines killing 3 reg spears at size 6 york. Oh well. C'est la Vie. (20-4).
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM05-4.jpg
IBT: Keshik kills AC covering army, Knight covering army kills 2nd keshik. Ansar warrrior kills AC X2. (21-7).
Turn 7: Kill LB, Kill ansar warrior and a keshik. Kill another LB. (26-7).
IBT: Not much
Turn 8: Kill 3 spears and an LB and raze Canterbury. (30-7).
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM05-3.jpg
Lose a full strength elite AC to a redlined ansar. (30-8). Kill the ansar, then kill an LB and an English settler pair. (33-8).
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM05-5.jpg
IBT:
Turn 9: Kill a LB, and move the treb stack methodically to the left. (34-8).
IBT: LB retreats an AC.
Turn 10: Locate Basra, Which I think is the arabs only ponies, and advance on it. Rush a library in Athens so the MGL can rush a uni next turn. I think we should pick up the research pace soon.
I didn't kill the English but I did a little damage to everyone. We are slowly marching down the neck of the enemy. We are fighting a war of Attrition, but we are wining as they are killing our units slightly faster than we can make them, but we are razing really big established cities.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5-1400AD.SAV

Actually, based on your kill ratio they didn't manage to kill faster than we can make. Two ACs, two Crusaders, and four knights built in your turn, no? So we didn't really lose any ground in that sense, and you made big advances in lowering the strength of the enemy.

Well actually I guess I didn't lose them faster than I could build them, but I lost them all at the front and reinforcements are taking a while to get to the front, so while the Unit count didn't change, the unit position changed to not as much in our favor. We have a long strung out supply line, but we just have to be methodical.

It still bit rough, but as long as we can trade units for cities the AI is in trouble. England is now close to dead.

If we drop the Arabs from AW to longbow our position will be much easier. I hope you are right about the only horse source.

As for the tech pace, we need to be carefull. I don't want to expire Zeus.

We do have an island to deal with. Notice the borders that I just spotted this time. Canterbury is NOT the English capitol and those look like English borders.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-688.jpg

When I started my turns, England had 4 cities. I raised 3 cities, and Mapstat says that they have 3 left, but they should be smaller cities.
Najran had horses for the Arabs, and Basra has horses, I do not think that they had 3 horses in their small territory.

Got it. Looks like clean up duty.

1405: Kill Arab settler. Move into position on Basra. Rush Uni. Max Research.

IT: Knight kills 2 AW on defense.

1410: Bombard and take Basra. No losses vs 1 pike and 1 spear. We get a new leader. Arabs now lack horses.

IT Lose crusader to English LB, 2 knights redlined and retreat from LB

1415: Attack on Canterbury falls short leaving a LB but no losses. Kill a few LB no losses.

IT Loose redlined Knight to LB.

1420: Canterbury falls no losses but the army group is quite injured. Move treb group into position on Medina.

1425: Medina is no more. Take out some stray troops. Heal army group.

1430: Win a few loose a few. Heal advance.

1435: Same.

1440: Pillage Arab horse.

1445: Liberate Anjar. Astronomy in Research off.

1450: Take 2 Pikes in Kufah with the Army.

This is essentially over. I just hope we can land on the English island. Caravel due this turn.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Median.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Kufah.JPG


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/power.JPG

Well, it looks like akots will have the honor of finishing off each and every one of our opponents. By 1500 AD, each city was OCC. England on the island, and the Arabs and Mongols at the bottom of that strangely shaped peninsula.

Oxford will be a tough nut to crack, I think. I sent some units over there, and got a fair amount of bad luck (with good luck elsewhere, of course). There are a couple units healing, and a few that died. Anyway, loading units on the boat, unloading on the island, and then getting to attack is three turns. Oxford seems to be building a spearman every two turns. I don't really know if the best approach is to wait for overwhelming numbers, which would probably mean waiting until turn six to attack (we should have nine units to their five). My method of sending two-three over and hoping to get lucky certainly did not work.

Oh, I meant to show the minimap, so the whole pangaea could be seen, but I seem to have lost it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_1500AD_oxford.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_1500AD_therest.jpg

Got that. Again me to kill? Well, I guess I'll try to finish it.

Preturn: This game is certainly over, just a few more turns. Rush one more knight in Athens. The minimap:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t290.JPG

[1] Mongols and Arabs are gone.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t291a.JPG


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t291b.JPG

[5] 8 units accumulated near Canterbury. Time to try their defenses. Save in the middle of the battle: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_1525AD.SAV


Not as tough as it seems.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-t295.JPG

So, it is all over.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-vict.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-F11.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mm5-F8.JPG

Final save after the victory:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MM5_1530AD-end.SAV

Thanks everyone for this enjoyable game, it was a pleasure, gentlemen. :)

On the side note, it seems that it is not possible to increase the size of land or difficulty level but it certainly might be possible to try Demigod on a small map with 80% water. The point will be survival during the first 50 turns, otherwise might be possible to win.

Not as tough as it seems.

Was this comment directed at what I said? I think the fact that you brought eight over before attacking and waited five turns said that it was a bit tough. More so than I expected, at least.

Nice job finishing it out.

Thanks for the fun game guys. It was an honor to play with you, but for personal reasons I will not be part of any sequel attempts.
Nice job on killing the AI akots. It was rather ironic that you killed them all.

Great game guys. So it is "Akots the Great" who had the honor of destroying every civ in the game :eek: . Quite a different outcome than MM3. It was much easier than I expected although the outcome wasn't really clear to me until my last set of turns. The early game is really tough with unit support until markets being a big problem. I wonder if we could have done it with any other civ. You really need an early and cheap UU. I'd be interested in trying Demi-small 80% with another civ (not sure which).

I'd be interested in trying Demi-small 80% with another civ (not sure which).
I don't play to try another match. Interesting for a one-shot, but not something I want to make a series out of.

It was just a matter of curiosity. At least for me.

Question: Can OCC AWE be won on a standard Pangea map?

Answer: Yes, it is tough but certainly possible.

Question: Can OCC AWS be won on a small Pelago map?

Answer: Yes, with Byzantines.

Question: Can OCC AW-DG be won on a small Pangea map?

Answer: ???

Must admit that before these games, it was thought that OCC AWM is not winnable even on small map.

I am curious to find the answer to all OCC-AW questions that there may be out there. My main desire is to find another civ that would work, though.

Great game guys :thumbsup: I would have liked to be part of this but limited time prevented that. I'd be interested in a sequel if you don't mind that I won't be there to play all the time (only monday, wednesday and sometimes saturday/sunday).