View Full Version : Commerce TC2 Discussion: The Fanatannian Raj?

Octavian X
Mar 08, 2005, 05:01 PM
So very interesting that we meet India during the first turn chat. I wonder - anyone up for establishing a new Raj? :D (For the curious, check out this article on the British Raj (

We got lucky, I think, to meet an AI so quickly. Last turn's instructions ordered an accumulation of gold at the expense of research time. We currently have 75g and are making 6gpt. There are tech trades afoot, I suspect, but I don't have access to C3C at the moment (I'm posting this from the public library, so I 'll take a look at the save in several hours). Look for possible tech trades in this thread soon.

Ohterwise, that's about it. I expect that, at this stage, we'll want to remain on friendly terms with the Indians, mainly because they're our only tech-trading partner.

Mar 08, 2005, 08:54 PM
India's up ceremonial burial and lacks none of the techs we have (I suspect he bought pottery from someone else for ceremonial burial and 7g). No trades are possible (if there was, it would be a bad trade). I also feel ceremonial burial is not an urgent need, and buying it can wait until it is cheaper and/or can be sold to someone else.

Mar 08, 2005, 09:10 PM
I agree that we should remain friendly with India and also agree that we'll be able to buy ceremonial burial later at a much better price. I'm hoping that we'll make exploration a priority. If we do, we're likely to make a good number of contacts fairly early in the game, which will increase trade possibilities. If we don't make contacts, we're a commercial civ and the geography of Camelot will permit us to become a commercial powerhouse once we learn the Republic. At that time we should be able to buy most of the knowledge we need. (Or if we decide to go the scientific route, our commerce will fuel our research.)

Mar 08, 2005, 09:45 PM
R&T would like to stay away from any trade for Cer Bul right now. We should keep exploring. Also, we may want to go on Ghandi Watch.


Octavian X
Mar 08, 2005, 10:01 PM
Well, no trade is possible - Gandhi wouldn't accept anything in exchange. I'm perfectly content with not spending anything on him, anyway.

That leaves an additional thought - Camelot will riot next turn. We could hire an entertainer, but I think it we could spare a little bit of money to bump the lux slider to 10% in order to correct the situation. Thoughts?

Mar 08, 2005, 10:26 PM
Bumping the slider is better than using one of our four pop as an entertainer. We can afford the gp better than the loss of production.

Mar 09, 2005, 03:50 AM
If you move a citizen from the unimproved BG to the irrigated wine you will make 2gpt more and this will pay for the slider hike as well as giving +4 food.

IF the current build is changed to settler from warrior then you will make more money by having the slider hiked for fewer turns at Size 4.

Specialists at this stage of the game are not on the agenda surely?

Octavian X
Mar 09, 2005, 05:41 PM
So far as I understand, Governor Ginger_Ale has no plans for the use of specialists.

I like that plan, though. The Commerce Office always appreciated an addition to Fanatannia's coffers. :D

Mar 09, 2005, 06:04 PM
According to my instructions (, we only need the unimproved BG for one turn, since then we can switch it to the grassland wines and get the warrior in the same number of turns.

And yes, I have NO use for specialists this early. They drain food, gold, and shields, and only give us either gold, shields, OR happiness, not ALL of them.

Mar 10, 2005, 09:18 AM
Well, I really appreciate the effort you have put into such a detailed instruction set. :goodjob: However, there are a few things I disagree with.

1. I do not believe that you get 5 turns production between turn 20 and 21.
2. The use of a forest tile is bad news all round. Once the town is at +4fpt it should remain there until the granary is built minimum since it can grow every 5 turns. The forest is useful on growth turns only. Food is King, Queen and country for 100 turns at least.
3. You seem to have missed the use of extra production on the growth turn. Since you have already specified the use of a citizen for the forest on the river (which the AI governor would normally pick) then the AI governor will pick some other tile so I can't give a definite value.
4. You may have missed the fact that the BG being mined now will have that mine completed on the third turn (turn 20) and that the extra shield will be granted.

I have not re-calculated all the values and I have not checked all of yours because I don't want to nit-pick, but as a citizen of the state I would ask that you take another look at the numbers to be absolutely sure that builds will complete on the correct turn.

Mar 10, 2005, 09:34 AM
a few comments on your comments:
1. turn 20 is 3 spt with 27 remaining. Turn 21 is 5 spt with 24 remaining.
2. Agreed. We should only limit food useage on those turns where we are doing something special (I'm thinking about: making sure we don't grow the same turn the granary completes; or if we are going to have a full food bin at size 6.)
3. Agreed. GA can swap a few turns here and there to make sure that we have 16 food in the bin and at +4 fpt on the turns we are about to grow to make sure we get the Forest shields on that turn.
4. Agreed.

In general it looks like GA's tables provide much better MM than we've seen in prior demogame instructions. Eventually we may need to lighten up or the poor DP will be spending all the chat time lost in a MM nightmare. This is the correct level of detail for oour first few cities during the critical expansion phase.

And of course the table will need to be redone entirely if we go to war.

Mar 10, 2005, 10:34 AM

It wasn't meant as a criticism. I think I just got carried away. I am more concerned about the general principle of maximising food in the early turns and getting tiles improved in time for growth. I'm not concerned with the minutae of MM'ing. The Governor was elected and entrusted with this and he should be allowed to get on with it. The reason I got a bee in my bonnet is because we took the trouble to irrigate a wine tile and then NOT road it and then not work it. I just became paranoid that some of the basic tenets I hold dear were being overlooked.

As I said before, the effort that has been put into the table is appreciated and impressive.

Octavian X
Mar 10, 2005, 04:35 PM
There's no need to be embarassed about anything - we all greatly appreciate contributions with that much attention to detail (especially those of us, myself included, with too short an attention span for micromanaging :D).

Mar 10, 2005, 05:44 PM
I'll double check the numbers today to see if they add up (I like sticky notes!) and also make the growth changes.

Mar 10, 2005, 06:24 PM
mad-bax and MOTH, the comments are greatly appreciated!

Here is a revised one, maximizing growth: I hope the numbers are correct this time around.