Special thanks to Bede for coming up with the title.

The variant is two-fold:
1. We don't pay a dime for tech. We can trade techs/resources for techs/resources/gold, but we can never pay gold in a deal involving AI techs.
2. Passive. We may never attack (including bombard) AI cities except AI capitals. And we can only take/raze capital once for each AI, which means if AI capital moves, we cannot attack the new capital.

The goal is Domination, 100K culture or space, by the order of preference.

Map: standard Pangea, 70% land.
Difficulty: Emperor
Civ: some scientific one. Sumeria or Russia? Or even Babylon?

The passive idea comes from LotR13 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=86752). We'll need to gain territory by settling inside AI territory, culture flip or propaganda. We are going for domination! This got to be fun.

Please also read Oystein's study on Espionage (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97042). I suspect we'll revolt into Communism, but let's see.

Roster:
microbe
LKendter
meldor
grahamiam
Bede

I'll start this in 2 days. Now decide our Civ. :)

Sumeria would be a challenge.

checking in :wavey: sumeria may work out well for this varient.

Is buying of workers for gold acceptable, or a no-no? I just thought of this, and may as well clarify it before starting.

I will use the RBCiv rule and allow buying one worker before 1000BC from each AI at emperor level.

I will use the RBCiv rule and allow buying one worker before 1000BC from each AI at emperor level.

I was more worried about it going against the variant. However, with this response it clearly isn't an issue.

All: I will start this as Sumeria tonight.

It's my 2nd start as the first one was not close to river.

Move worker NE and settler E, revealing a hut.

3950BC: we get Warrior Code from the hut. Start EW.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-3950BC.jpg

Full research on Alphabet. Gold is of little use now, so we need to keep full research (except maybe min on Writing). I find nobody in the north, so it looks like we have plenty of space to expand. I am kinda worried that the AIs are packed too much.

After the settler I'd build one more EW to explore the south and then a curragh.

Early game we need to push for culture. I think we should try to get GL as the saved gold would be useful for propaganda.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-2750BC.jpg

Lee plays 15 turns, and then 10 turns each.

Roster:
microbe - just played
LKendter - up
meldor - on deck
Bede
grahamiam

It looks like a serious feast today. Those LK88 monster turns have really put me behind.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MIC8-2150BC.zip

We have plenty of land to fill, but lack good food bonus tiles. No contacts are bad thing.

2590 BC
I spot a flood plains wheat tile. :D


2510 BC
Sumer is formed next to the flood plains wheat. It also insures we have gems.
(IT) Alphabet is completed, and I start work on writing due in 30 turns.


2390 BC
I kill a barb warrior and find the camp he came from.


2270 BC
The barb camp is destroyed, but it cost an EW.

====================

Summary:

The only piece of good news is below. Check out what I circled.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-644.jpg

We really need a military city ASAP. The new city is food heavy, and we need a city with shields.


Signed up:
Roster:
Microbe
LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
Bede (on deck)
Grahamiam

If the AI captures one of OUR cities, can we get it back? Is that considered an AI city at that point?

Is that considered an AI city at that point?

Yes .

Based on that we better really garrision the front lines and avoid RoPs. I would hate to loss a core city to a railnet RoP attack from the AI.

This is emperor, so I think it's no problem. We'll have stronger military than the AI and you'd be worried about unit support in Republic. :)

meldor are you able to take it soon? If not, either Bede or G-man can claim.

Sorry, missed this one, will get right on it...

2150 BC (0)
Nothing to change.
(I)Ur Enkidu->Archer

2070 BC (2)
Take out the barb camp.
(I)Barb impales itself on our Enkidu. Sumer hit with disease.

2030 BC (3)
(I) Ur Archer->Enkidu

1990 BC (4)
(I)A Barb approaches Sumer

1950 BC (5)
We met the Romans. We are down CB and IW.
(I) Barb pillages wheat. Ur EW->Settler

1870 BC (7)
Form Lagish to get the elephants and still have some food. Rome has picked up Masonry and the Wheel.
(I)

1790 BC (9)
Clean another Barb camp.
(I)Ur Settler->EW

1750 BC (10)
Settler should go and grab the choke point. We can then back fill from there. Any cities that the AI builds behind us should be easy prey for us (culturally speaking).

:confused:
The attached file says LK95. Is this the right game?

:confused:
The attached file says LK95. Is this the right game?:D LK95 is the next one to work on, got confused with the 1750BC saves.... :lol:

Nice coke. :D Let's settle that ASAP.

Any idea of building Pyramids? We definitely need a wonder city anyway. I would want pyramids more than GL.

Strategy: expand and build culture in Ancient/Middle Ages. Settle as much as possible, and build as many wonders as possible. Just to make sure we won't get 20K or 100K win. :)

grahamiam - up
Bede - on deck

got it....

Hey, passive aggressive, my favorit variant! :) I loved the passive aggressive Epic a lot. This will definately on my reading list; please don't be shy with screenshots... ;)

-Kylearan

Preflight check:

IBT:

T1: 1725BC EW from Sumer goes with settler so I have to mess with lux slider

IBT: Gems connected; Ur EW -> settler

T2: 1700BC

T3: 1675BC Dingy meets an Arabian scout. They are up IW, Wheel, CB, and Mas.

T4: 1650BC

T5: 1625BC
IBT: EW @ choke defends against barb warrior; Writing -> CoL (20t, +0gpt); Ur settler -> EW; Lagash EW -> worker

T6: 1600BC

T7: 1575BC

IBT: Ur EW -> barracks

T8: 1550BC

IBT: Romans building Pyramids

T9: 1525BC Romans have writing; Found Kish NW of Ur -> EW; Found Umma at the choke, gets whales + oasis on expansion, has sugar -> worker

T10: 1500BC Our Choke EW sees dark purple border, heads E to investigate

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MIC8-1500BC.jpg

Got it. Play tomorrow.

With the choke sealed (do we need a couple more EWs there?), I think we need to concentrate on settling a productive core.

1450 - Meet Scandanavia and Korea. Korea next to Rome, Scandanavia also next to Rome in the far NE. Rome and Scandanavia know Writing but it appears that Rome and Korea could be at war.

Archer and Enk head out from Kish for a little barb hunting and bounty collection to fund the race to Republic. Pop a hut and get barbs at Kish.

Turns out the Romans are only hunting barbarians on the Korean borders so trade Korea Writing for Masonry (we want the Pyramids, no?)

1425 Everybody knows The Wheel, Iron working, Mysticism, and Maths. Ur gets its barracks so it starts on the Pyramids (now being bult only in Rome at pop1).

1400 - Scandanavia now knows Map Making.

1325 - Collect a bounty on the Bantu camp in the north. Meet the Germans in the south and swap Pottery and Writing for Iron working and Cermonial Burial.
The Koreans start the Oracle.

1300 - Looks like our only source of iron is in the far northwest. Germany is at war with someone as there is a battle at the gates of Hamburg but the attackers die before they come into view.

And in 1250 meet the Ottomans just north of the Arabians in the far NE. There is a settler from Sumer heading NW. There is a nice spot on the river with four bons grass right handy. The EW and archer are heading NW to bust up another barb camp that is spewing horsemen.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mic08_1250BC_00.jpg

OK good work. I got it.

Since our capital is on wonder, other towns should get settlers out instead, but probably without granaries.

Sumer is doing settlers. Any other town but the capitol would have been behind the Romans.

preturn: we have 7 workers but I still feel we need more. :) Our capital is working on two tiles which should be mined.

We are roading a forest which I consider second priority compared to mine, so I stop the worker and it goes to the BG to mine.

1225BC: Vikings know Philosophy. I keep two EWs in capital and lower lux to 10.

We seem to have met somebody new, Ottomans?

1175BC: we get CoL the first.

I get Philosphy+Mysticism+2g from Vikings. CoL+Philosophy to Rome for Wheel+Math+101g. Philosphy gets us HBR+9g from Ottomans. Remember: we do not pay gold. (I actually forgot it, but fortunately I didn't violate the rule. :D )

Vikings hold two monopoly techs: Map Making and Currency. All others are either behind or equal.

I thought about the white dot Bede proposed. It gets 4 BGs instantly but it wastes 2 tiles between Capital and itself, and it doesn't get the cattle in range anyway.

I decide to delay the cattle and found one tile SE.

We have horses SE to our capital.

I buy one Korean worker by HBR. Since 1000BC is coming, it doesn't matter..

Now what's next tech? I set min to Republic for now. Hopefully we'll still have ToA as prebuild to switch to GL if we miss Pyramids..

1150BC: I pop hut next to Lagash and 3 warriors show up.

IBT 2 bab warriors promote our EW.

1125BC: We pop Lit from hut. :D So if we miss Pyramids, we'll at least get GL.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1125BC.jpg

1075BC: India completes Colossus.

I decide to sell Lit to Vikings for Map Making + 9g to avoid AI demanding it, and we are not likely to get both GL and Pyramids anyway. I then sell Lit to Rome for 76g.

I create some embassies:
Vikings: Colossus in 5 turns with 6spt. It's size 5 with 1fpt and a clown. 2 spearmen as garrison. No resources whatsoever.
Rome: Pyramids in 51 turns with 5spt. It's size 3 with 2fpt. 2 spearmen as garrison. Has furs.
Germany: Pyramids in 156 turns with 2spt. It's size 1 with 2fpt. 2 spearmen as garrison. Has spices.
Korea: Oracle in 217 turns with 1spt. It's size 3 with 2fpt and a clown. 3 spearmen. It has silks.
Ottomans: Oracle in 25 turns with 4spt. Size 6 with a clown. 2 spearmen. It has dyes, horses and iron.
Arabia: It's building a settler which is completed but stuck at size 2. :lol: 1 spearman. It has silks.

There is no AI wars. From what I can see, we'll get Pyramids.

IBT Korea starts Colossus and India completes it. Rome swaps to Great Library.

1050BC: Rome demands 23g. Vikings start Great Library.

Note: I'm moving the settler to the red dot, but there is a barb camp and we have an injured EW. So we probably should let the EW recover before we go to there and settle.

Umma is building EW and I want to seal the choke. We should have founded Umma one tile SE.

Also, I am only doing min research as it costs the same time with max research. Although we can't buy techs, We can still steal techs.

Pyramids is in 15 turns and we should get it. Then we should go on max expansion again.

I switched our rax builds to temples and regular EWs and other things. We can keep building reg EWs for escort until we can afford the shields for rax.

Our next cities should claim the iron and furs first. AI has got Map Making and we cannot assume the backyard is safe.

We should switch temples to libraries.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1000BC.jpg

Roster:
LKendter - up
meldor - on deck

The variant is two-fold:
1. We don't pay a dime for tech. We can trade techs/resources for techs/resources/gold, but we can never pay gold in a deal involving AI techs.
2. Passive. We may never attack (including bombard) AI cities except AI capitals. And we can only take/raze capital once for each AI, which means if AI capital moves, we cannot attack the new capital.

Signed up:
Roster:
Microbe
LKendter (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Bede
Grahamiam

I forgot to mention it in my turns, but let's not to negative research with a treasury under 100g. I still remember how we lost a granary in Bugsy 2.1 when AI came and demanded all our gold.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MIC8-750BC.zip

1000 BC
I do swap from temples in 2 cities to libraries as suggested by Microbe. It gains more culture with the same dollar cost, and we complete them sooner. We really need a city as a military pump to deal with all the barbarians.

I am forced to stick with the minimum science run, as we don't have the economy to do any better.


975 BC
It is a lousy deal, but I give the Arabs Code of Laws, Literature and Map Making for Construction and $34. Just using 2 techs required us to give token cash.


950 BC
Barbs are spotted by Sumer, and our settler will be delayed.

OUCH - our EW fails to clear the barb camp near the horses. That city will be delayed a few turns.


925 BC
I kill a barb horse with an EW and find a barb camp.
I kill a barb warrior with an EW and find a second camp.


900 BC
Scratch the northern barb camp.
This time we get rid of the barb camp by horses.
There is still another camp to destroy.

I give construction to Rome for Polytheism and $15.

875 BC
Agade is formed to claim the horses, and 2 food bonus tiles. It is an awkward one from the coast, but I refuse to waste the banana tile.

I form a horse colony so that we can start building them now.

Our EW fails to kill a horse by Kish.
(IT) Kish is pillaged costing us a pop point.


850 BC
The barb camp near Sumer is toasted.
(IT) Korea declares war on Rome.


825 BC
Erech is formed west of Sumer.
I partially whip a library via settler in Lagash. This city really needed a border expansion as all of the good food tiles were in the second ring.


775 BC
There are at least 2 camps of north as I spotted a stack of 2 barbs from different nations.


750 BC
The 2 barbs from last turn are dead.

====================

Summary:
I frelling hate barbs. We really need to expand and end this nonsense. Lack of military to deal with the barbs really slowed me down.

The yellow dot is where the current settler is heading. I haven't seen any AI galleys yet, but you know there are coming. I would like to secure luxury #3.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-647.jpg

5 turns until we get the Pyramids. I really would like to go to SoZ immediately after that. Some AC would be great for barb hunting. If we are hoping for flips a cheap 4 culture point wonder will greatly improve our culture rating.

Signed up:
Roster:
Microbe
LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
Bede (on deck)
Grahamiam

Correct roster as follows. I made a mistake and swapped Bede and G-man, but let's stick with it.

We haven't found India right?

Roster:
microbe
LKendter
meldor - up
grahamiam - on deck
Bede

Variant rules:
1. don't pay a dime for techs.
2. passive.

SoZ after Pyramids sounds good. We should also claim the iron asap. You know that AI would beeline to it.

We should also claim the iron ASAP. You know that AI would beeline to it.
I agree, that we the same reasoning for the furs next. We had enough EW to clear around the furs. We will need a bit more military to safeguard the passage to the iron. I can't wait for the first horseman.

I see it and it is in the queue

750 BC (0)
Nothing to change.
(I)A barb galley ends up next to our curragh. The Arabs start ToA

730 BC (1)
Find Barb camp near the furs. Curragh goes bravely forth inspite of its threatened doom.
(I) An EW holds off 2 Barb horses but dies to the third. Our curragh faces down the barb galley and pormote to vet. Umma EW->Library.

710 BC (2)
Move the new EW to block the choke point and spots a Roman Galley. I don't know why this city wasn't placed to give us a way to cross back and forth with ships. Clear Barb camp at furs but one barb horse remains.
(I) Barb horse dies attacking EW.

690 BC (3)
Move settler with escort. I have to move EW out of Bad-tibria to protect our workers.
(I)We lose an EW to a barb horse. Looks like the other horse is going to pillage Kish. Sumer settler->Settler, Bad-tibira Rax->EW.

670 BC (4)
Kill the horse that was going to pillage but that means the settler has to sit for one turn.
(I) Ur Pyramids->SoZ, Lagash Library->Settler

650 BC (5)
I sell our two granaries. Settler has an escort again.
(I)Barb attacks our elite archer and dies. Kish Rax->Horseman.

630 BC (6)
EW kills horse that is next to settler pair. Find another barb fortified in the jungle. Boy, is it going to suck when we get hit by uprisings.
(I) Bad-tibira EW->Settler, Erech Worker->Library,

610 BC (7)
Not much, still haven't found the other barb camp.

590 BC (8)
Isin is built on top of the Furs and starts a Library.
(I)Barb attacks our EW and dies. Sumer Settler->Settler

570 BC (9)
Our curragh spots India but they are behind in tech with nothing to trade. Finally spot barb camp, as usual it is near the incense.Agade Library->Rax.

550 BC (10)
Move EW'san archer to get Barb camp.

We have a settler headed for the Iron and one that should head for the incense. Four native luxes this early in this type game would be most good indeed. We have a ton of land we need to fill before we hit the MA or at least clear it of barb camps.

SoZ due in 10 and then maybe MoM?

Ur Pyramids->SoZ :dance:
Accelerated growth of our cities is a major bonus. SoZ will be a big help with the barbs, and any thoughts of the AI attacking us. You know our military rating will go way up with all those AC.


SoZ due in 10 and then maybe MoM?
We do have to be careful not to build to many wonders in the capitol to avoid tripping 20K. That wasn't on Microbes list of win types.

MoM doesn't gain us much except culture. If we are to build it, do we have a different city for it? I want to spread the culture between different cities.


We have a ton of land we need to fill before we hit the MA or at least clear it of barb camps.
We won't fill out the lands before the massive uprisings. We are only missing the mandatory currency, and other civs are in the same boat. I would be surprised if Grahamiam doesn't see massive uprisings.

Signed up:
Roster:
Microbe
LKendter
Meldor
Grahamiam (currently playing)
Bede (on deck)

We don't have to fill them out, we just need to have enough military scattered around (workers don't count) so that no barb camps can spring up.

As for a different wonder city, Bad-Whatever has a ton of BG and should be able to build a wonder or two itself.

I would prefer to get as many wonders as we can now, we can always sell them off to kill our culture increases later, after they have generated enough flips.

I wouldn't build MoM. I would put capital on settlers and military, and maybe galleys to find some island to colonize. This would free up other towns to focus on libraries and temples. I want to see every town have these two buildings at least.

However, I wouldn't mind put another city on some prebuild for Sistine and even Sun Tzu. We need a second or even third city for wonders. As Lee said we should avoid 20K.

Concur with microbe. Wonders are not much help in cultural conversion as it is total culture that counts. Temples and libraries add up much faster, if there are enough of them.

Wonders are not much help in cultural conversion as it is total culture that counts.
Wonders should be for strategic gain. The Pyramids really help with city growth. Zeus is a huge military boast.

With the nature of this variant there are several more wonders I do want. We will want churches for the culture boast. This makes Sistine very valuable. The high culture wonder of Bach's is really good. If a city has nothing better to do, then we should go for the marginal wonders.

got it

lurker comment: MoM is handy for a decent chunk of late game tourism, and you'll need all the caish you can scrounge for propaganda efforts by then...

Preflight check: See the iron, takes me a while to find the incense under the barbs butt. Go thru towns and tweak a little but all’s in excellent shape

IBT: Indians ask us to leave, Germans building MoM

T1: 530BC moving settlers

IBT: Kish horse -> worker; Bad-tibira settler -> EW
Ottomans building MoM, complete Oracle, Germans cascade to MoM, Arabs building GLib

T2: 510BC moving and working.
IBT: Vikings building ToA, complete Glib, Koreans cascade to MoM, bunch of other cascades. We get the Massive uprising message (Near Isin)

T3: 490BC Barb camp has 8 horseman in it. We have 2 EW’s and 1 elite archer. Archer kills barb warrior.

IBT: Vikings establish Odense NE of Isin.
defend against 7 barb horseman, lose an Elite EW that was promoted while killing 6 of them.
Kish worker -> EW; Bad-tibira EW -> EW

T4: 470BC Rome got Republic 1st :( Kill ½ barb horse on incense and collect 25g Almost accidentally buy currency for 450g.

IBT: Sumer settler -> settler

T5: 450BC moving

IBT: Kish EW -> ‘duct; Bad-tiberia EW -> EW

T6: 430BC Trade: Sell construction and Poly to Korea for Currency and 7g. We get Monothesism, Korea gets Engineering but won’t trade for Mono & Lit. Ottomans have Mono as well. Found Ninda Ku -> worker; Found Akkadian, claiming the iron -> worker

IBT:

T7: 410BC Arabs got Mono too now. A bunch of civ’s have Republic and Mono now.
Sell CoL to Germany for 7g and a worker

IBT: Koreans want an alliance vs the Romans, but won’t part with Eng for Mono and Lit so I decline.
Bad-tibera EW -> settler

T8: 390BC Found Der -> worker

IBT: SoZ -> Library; Agade barracks -> EW

T9: 370BC India has Monarchy. Will not sell for Con, Cur, and MM.
Found Kua to claim the Incense -> worker

IBT: Der gets ransacked, costing us 63g.

T10: 350BC Kill a barb horse. Looks like the Romans will claim our oil city to the NW :rolleyes:

Good work. We claimed all the resources and we need to fill up the slot. Our next settler should claim the river to fill the gap b/t Isin and Ninda.

Why Kish is building Aqueduct when it is only size 4? I would switch to temple or market.

Ur could be one nice wonder city. I would start a prebuild soon to try to get Sistine.

We need to keep pushing culture. We are behind Ottomans.

The AI towns in OUR territory should get culture pressure (3-tile distance) and join us at some point.

Roster:
Microbe - on deck
LKendter
Meldor
Grahamiam
Bede - up

Screenshot for lurkers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-350BC1.jpg

Why Kish is building Aqueduct when it is only size 4? I would switch to temple or market.sorry, i meant to change it to a market. i agree that it should be that or a temple.

Ur has a chop that is timed for the next build, which I figured would be a market.

Got it.

Markets, temples and libraries. Keep all our gold.

Turn up the heat on the scientists, since we can't spend gold abroad to buy tech better spend it at home. We have enough in the bank to support the deficit of -8 to learn Republic in less than 8 turns.

Looks like the Romans are going to lose their settler team to a Hurrian horde o' horseman, so I just sit back and watch the show. The Romans drop a town in place and the Hurians attack three times promoting the spear to elite, then hustle off elsewhere....

Arabs want 58g and I pay him off.

330 Whack a barbarian camp and collect the bounty.

In 310 the Vikings learn Feudalism and start SunT's.

In 290 have to found Marad in a less than optimal spot because of German settler team.

And make this deal with Gandhi as we still can't touch Monarchy for all the knowledge and all the gold in our gnomey little vaults.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mic08_290BC_00.jpg

In 270 plant Kuara in the slot.

We get some border expansions that give the Germans no place to go but way up north. And in 250AD the Germans finish the Mausoleum of Marsalos and the Arabs start Temple of Artemis and the Great Wall.

In 190BC we learn Republic so it is time to revolt. We draw four turns.

Unfortunately it comes a tick too late to serve as trade bait for anything as it has been passed around the world already to all but Germany.

By 150Bc we have two turns to go so I am going to play them out so the next better player can have somthing better to do. And just before the revolution ends Akkadian gets its growth and riots.

There is no post-revolutionary recession to speak of becaise we are only a few units over the limit. Research right now is set to Theology with one scientist at Kua, it could go as high as 80% to get Theology in 9 at a reasonable deficit.

Culture growth took a slight dip during the revolt so we are now 1/2 a turn or so behind the Ottomans but will catch them back up soon enough. There is a settler heading for the fish north of Der. Either Bad-tibira or Sumer look to have pretty good claims on the Forbidden Palace. Kish is a contender but appears to lack the shields and commerce, long term. Our three cavalry (2AC's and a horse) are doing some barbarian suppression work up north

The Republic of Sumeria

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mic08_110BC_00.jpg

:scan: Trying to locate the save.

Sorry, Lee. Just attached it above.

Sorry, Lee. Just attached it above.


:confused:
I don't see the attachment. Where is it at?

It's there now, I didn't read the smallprint in the dialog box the first two times.

preturn: we need more workers and we need to get our core cities grow bigger. Theology is close and we still haven't start a prebuild for Sistine.

I rush library in Isin by 40g.

Raise sci to get Theology in 10 turns.

I buy Korean worker by 108g.

We need to get the incense connected asap.

50BC: Rome builds ToA.

30BC: India compeltes Hanging Gardens.

10BC: rush market in Kish.

10AD: I set Ur to Great Lighthouse in 19.

50AD: IBT we learn Theology.

70AD: I gift Germany to MA. It gets Monotheism. :(

I sell Theology to Arabia for Feudalism+42g+17gpt. Theology to Vikings for 21gpt+423g. Feudalism+Theology to India for Engineering+Monarchy.

I rush 5 libraries and a temple.

Set sci to 60 to get Education in 10 turns with +33gpt.

90AD: I found Nagsu aggressively next to Pusan on the furs. Korea is at war with Rome and down to 3CC, so no fear.

110AD: Chivalry and Invention show up.

IBT Pusan is razed by Rome.

130AD: We connect incense and lower lux to 10. I keep moderate research to not speed up the tech pace too much.

Rush library in Nagsu.

Note: we have 3 settlers. There are 4 spots to claim as shown below, and blue dots should be claimed first. There is a German settler trying to go to the NW corner and we should use our AC to block it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-150AD-WEST.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-150AD-EAST.jpg

I'm building FP in Bad-Tibira.

Our culture is shaping up nicely, and I'd like to see us get much more. Middle Age is the age to build culture and wonder. Get a university and cachedral in all core cities?

We need to also consider how to get our GA. We've build Pyramids, so Newton would get us the other half. But it might be a bit late. If we want to use our UU, we'd need to build more military.

Since Rome got ToA, sell Education to it asap.

Roster:
Microbe
LKendter - up
Meldor - on deck
Grahamiam
Bede - up

I got it. We have even another city site - that swamp island. It will be useless for awhile, but it can still build culture and increase our percentage of the world.

I got it. We have even another city site - that swamp island. It will be useless for awhile, but it can still build culture and increase our percentage of the world.

It actually will be a first-ring city and bring significant income later. We just need to clean the marshes first.

Also, we need to build a strong military so we could aggressively settle and give AI culture pressure. One or two of our core cities should build military while others on culture buildings and rotate them.

We should also merge workers into our capital.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MIC8-350AD.zip

150 AD
Our biggest problem is lack of workers, so I swap Sumer to worker duty.

Our military is to light for me, but I don't want to build more until the iron is hooked up and we can build pikes and knights.


210 AD
Susa is formed.


230 AD
Pushing our luck is formed.


260 AD
I rechecked Microbes dot map and confirmed the location. Golden Lava is formed.
(IT) The forbidden palace is completed. Bad-tibira would be a great military pump with building pikes every other turn. However, for know it needs happy buildings.


270 AD
Our exploring worker by the Vikings is trapped, so I disband it.

The Vikings give us Invention, Chivalry and $143 for Education.
(IT) Rome and Korea sign a peace treaty.
India completes the Great Lighthouse.


290 AD
(IT) The Arabs complete the Great Wall.

====================

Summary:
I left the settler unmoved, as I really don't have a good idea how to use it.


Signed up:
Roster:
Microbe
LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
Grahamiam (on deck)
Bede

I see it and it is in the queue

Things are going really well.

The settler could settle the island when we can spare a few workers to clean the marshes.

Our culture is good, so we need to start thinking about pushing for military.

Note, in the rule I allowed attacking AI capital once per AI, so we could take out Korea that way, but I now feel that might be too cheesy. Should we just play strict passive?

350 AD (0)
I swap Kish to a galley so that we can get the settler to the island sooner rather than later. I move the settler toward Kish. MM Ninda Ku to stop it from rioting.
(I) We get Astronomy and start on Music Theory. Sumer Worker->Worker, Kish Caravel->Pike, Marad Harbor->Temple

360 AD (1)
Found a city on the tip of nowhere (Anshan) and start it on a library. Load the settler on the new caravel with a EW. I then rush 3 libraries to get the border expansions faster. Swap Bad-tibria to Cop's.
(I) Umma Harbor->Temple, Susa Pushing and Golden Lava Library->Temple, Isin Market->Aqueduct.

370 AD (2)
Drop off the settler and escort. The cravel will come back for a worker before moving off to explore more of the darkness.
(I) Sumer Woreker->Worker, Agade Pike->Pike. The Arabs start Cop's as well.

380 AD (3)
Not much.
(I) Kish Pike->Harbor

390 AD (4)
Ragnar gets Ivory for 7gpt and 11g. India swaps Astrononmy for Printing Press and 11gpt.
(I)

400 AD (5)
Not much again.
(I) Agade Pike->Pike, Erech Market->Aqueduct, Der Temple->Aqueduct. The Germans start Sun's and the Romans start Leo's.

410 AD (6)
The pikes are going towards the front.
(I) We get Music Theory and start on Banking. Sumer Worker->Worker

420 AD (7)
I swap Kish to Bach's but things can be rearrainged as we like.
(I) Kuara Settler->Temple. The Indians and Arabs start Bach's as well. We might want to swap it so we get Bach's instead of Sistine's.

430 AD (8)
(I) Sumer Worker->Worker, Agade Pike->Pike

440 AD (9)
(I)Isin Aqueduct->Cathedral, Akkadian Temple->Market

850 AD (10)
Worker moves.

I left it to the group to discuss what we want to finish and where we want to finish it.

grahamiam - up
Bede - on deck

got it :)

i cannot get to this tonight but will do it tomorrow night, sorry.

I left it to the group to discuss what we want to finish and where we want to finish it.

but perhaps its a good thing i cannot play tonight as I have not seen any discussion what meldor would like to discuss. I believe he is refering to this:

420 AD (7)
I swap Kish to Bach's but things can be rearrainged as we like.
(I) <snip>The Indians and Arabs start Bach's as well. We might want to swap it so we get Bach's instead of Sistine's.

Sistines looks better as I assume we'll get cathedrals anyway so it's one more happy fact.

Either one will work for us. Sistine Chapel is better, though.

While Sistines doubles happiness from the Cathedrals, Bach's gives you instant happy in every city on the landmass. For a large landmass, I have always favored Bach's.

The other point to consider is that the Sistine builds have been going longer. If we complete Sistine, they may swap those shields to either BAch's or Cop's. Taking Bach's won't get a big swap because they won't have a ton of shields built up.

We can get two of the three and use the other as a prebuild for Smith's or Newton's (Smith's being better IMO). The order we get them in may determine who many we get and where the cascade shields go to.

The other point to consider is that the Sistine builds have been going longer. If we complete Sistine, they may swap those shields to either BAch's or Cop's. Taking Bach's won't get a big swap because they won't have a ton of shields built up.

I see it the other way around. Building a wonder with the same cost faster makes the cascade end faster - not everybody has the option to switch to Bach. If they do, it's no difference which one we build first.

But I see it might endanger copernicus..are we trying and able to get it too? I have not looked at the save so it's hard to say. But anyway, I don't consider it too important. Shoot for Smith's instead?


We can get two of the three and use the other as a prebuild for Smith's or Newton's (Smith's being better IMO). The order we get them in may determine who many we get and where the cascade shields go to.

Newton could start our GA, but we could declare on Korea and start it by our UU..I really hope we get it asap.

I see it the other way around. Building a wonder with the same cost faster makes the cascade end faster - not everybody has the option to switch to Bach. If they do, it's no difference which one we build first.
OK, lets look at it this way...
Wonder Shields SPT AI Shields AI SPT
Sistine 150 25 100 15
Bach's 20 20 15 15
Cop's 105 15 70 10

In this case, we finish Sistines first, they swap the 150 shields to Bachs and they finish Bachs first as they only have a few turns to go and we can't catch up and some AI's will swap to Bach's and some to Cop's meaning that we stand to lose both.

However, if we swap to Bach's and finish it first, the AI won't swap the Sistine shields to anothe wonder, they keep it on Sistines. We lose Sistines but have a better chance at completing Cop's as long as we can complete Cop's at or before they finsh Sistines.

On top of that, we dump more shields into Bach's, which finishes faster, the AI and we finsh Sistines and Cop's faster and there is less chance for the cascade to extend. You have eliminat4ed the middle wonder that they would have swapped to... If one completes Sistines they swap it all to Cop's if that finishes the shields go to Bach's, etc. By getting rid of the wonders for the higher techs first you get rid of a cascade step and at least some of the AI will miss it and lose the shields.


But I see it might endanger copernicus..are we trying and able to get it too? I have not looked at the save so it's hard to say. But anyway, I don't consider it too important. Shoot for Smith's instead?

Newton could start our GA, but we could declare on Korea and start it by our UU..I really hope we get it asap.We can always hit Korea, why not try to grab as many wonders as we can...

If we have a chance to complete both Bach and Copernicus before AI completes Sistine, then I agree with you.

And we'd better get our GA going asap as we are building wonders.

Triggereing the GA while hitting Lorea and getting rid of them should allow us to get 2 of the three and probably Smith's and a good shot at Newton's. After thatit is all gravy.

Preflight check: Copernicus in 13T (Bad-T), Bachs in 37T (Kish), Sistine’s in 4T (Ur). Switch Kish to Palace, Ur to Bach’s (4T), Leave Bad-T with Copernicus.

MM Ur off 2 forests and onto 2 mined grass so it gets +2fpt. I’d like it up to size 10 so it can do 20spt (nice for a run at Newtons)
Indians and Arabs are building Bach’s in Madras and Medina, respectively. Cannot investigate either atm.
Move up AC’s and EW’s so we can pop the Koreans and grab the silks.
Rush a couple temples (Marad and Umma) so the towns can build ‘ducts as we could us a little more unit support.
We are a cultural monster WRT to Rome and Germany, so maybe we can have some wars with them and pursue aggressive settling.
Switch Agade to a knight from pike.
Switch Anshan from Lib to worker.

IBT: Sumer worker -> University (we have 32workers, time to start building more infrastructure in this town); Umma temple -> ‘duct; Marad temple -> ‘duct; Anshan worker -> Lib

T1: 460AD working the fields, walking EW’s up to Korea

IBT: Looks like Germany is about to get frisky; Lagash market -> court; Erech ‘duct -> harbor
Arabs complete Sun’s

T2: 470AD Even better, the considerate Germans are coming at us with archers. Perfect for our EW :)

IBT: Ur completes Bachs -> University; Agade knight -> knight
Koreans cascade to KT

T3: 480AD lost record

T4: 490AD Fortify 3 reg EW’s in Nagsu for the German “sneak” attack of 2 archers. Also put 1 vet EW in town.

IBT: German’s declare war on us. @ Nagsu: vet EW redlines but kills archer {b]GA begins[/b]
WLTKD’s break out in a lot of places
Ninda Ku temple -> Lib; Der ‘duct -> harbor; Kua temple -> ‘duct; move out of the rock and spruce up the palace.

T5: 500AD @ Nagsu: kill 2 spears and 2 archers with AC’s, no promotions.

IBT: Banking -> Econ (5T, -35gpt)

T6: 510AD India and Arabia already have banking. Sell it to the Vikings +100g for Guns. Salt is near the Roman town of Hispalis (in our NW corner)

IBT: Umma ‘duct -> market; Erech harbor -> Uni

T7: 520AD Declare on the Koreans; Kill a covering spear near Nagsu.

IBT: Sign RoP with Rome so we can get thru to a German archer in our rear; said German archer attacks our AC and dies; @ Nagsu: kill 1 attacking archer.
Ur Uni -> Bank; Agade Knight -> Knight; Marad ‘duct -> market; Kuara temple -> Lib

Vikings complete Sistine’s; Indians Cascade to Copernicus’ (1T ahead of us :( )

T8: 530AD Switch Kish to Leo’s and Bad-T to palace
@Erech: Kill German spear
@ Seoul: AC retreats from spear; AC kills spear and promotes (2/6) and we take the town :eek: Only 1 defender!
Koreans are destroyed.
@Nagsu: vet EW kills archer (1/4); AC kills archer and promotes (6/6)

The big 3 (Vikings, Indians, and Arabs) are up Chems and Nav.

Sell Guns to Ottos for dyes and 10g

IBT: Indians offer Nav for 790g, decline.
Sumer Uni -> bank; Lagash court -> Uni

T9: 540AD Rush a Lib in Seoul so we can build a barracks next (and minimize reg Crusaders)
Max out research (100%) so we can get Eco next turn.

IBT: Germans move archers towards Seoul
Economics -> Chems (4T @ 60%, +122gpt)
Seoul Lib -> barracks; Der harbor -> market

T10: 550AD Kill a couple archers near Seoul.
Smiths due in 6T in Bad-T; Kish is a prebuild for Newtons. I recommend waiting on trading Econ as we don’t want another cascade wonder loss.
Settler running out towards Seoul so we can pinch more German land. They have less than half our culture.
Forgot to switch Kish to palace.

German Front
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MIC8-550AD-1.jpg

Core
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MIC8-550AD-2.jpg

I think we can do some MA stuff. AI could raze cities for us or shrink their culture border.

We need to find saltpeter that we could settle on. The two saltpeter sources in Roman territory are all directly next to the city where we cannot settle. Hope we can flip Hispalis. Or we settle next to the saltpeter and rush culture to outpace that town.

Bede - up
microbe - on deck

Got it. Play tonight/tomorrow

550AD
If the Germans are half our culture the Romans are but a third so sign an alliance with Rome against our neighbor Germany after checking that no deals are at risk. We are shippng luxuries to the Vikings but they seem to be friendly with the Romans, so make the pact for 12gpt. Kua is at pop6 working three unimproved tiles so swap the acqueduct to a settler to put some more pressure on Hispalis with a town between Akkadian and Susa.

560AD
Delhi completes Leo's, Arabs start Magellan's, so I swap Territory Maps with Abu, and pick up 14g, do the same with India and pick up another 20g, and with Ragnar and pick up 25g. Then go back to Abu and swap World Maps, but we have to give him 6g. But Gandhi offers his World Map +23g for ours. And since we now have a full World Map Ragnar will give another 17g for ours and we don't need his.

Then I kill a couple of German archers and watch a single Roman Legion approach Seoul. The settler will hide out in Seoul for a bit.

Settler from Kua heads up the coast with an AC for escort.

In 580 found Babil on the NW coast and rush a library.

The Romans have assembled a nice Stack o' Doom at Seoul so I open the road to Heidelburg for them by killing a German archer.

The Arabs complete Magellan's in 580

In 600AD found Dabrum above Pisa, Heidleberg falls to the Romans and Smith's is complete in Bad-tibira.

In 620 I can buy Democracy from Ragnar for Economics, Ivory, Silks and our world map...Since Shakespeare's Theatre might be a handy building to have in Bad Tibira or even Ur with all those floodplains decide to take a run at Free Artistry and the Globe. We are trading out our single silk but there is another one at Seoul not connected yet and it is not like we have any contentment problems.

We can then get 119g+37gpt from Gandhi for Economics. And 27g+7gpt from Abu.

In 640 build Ashak in the face of Heidelberg and rush the library.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mic08_650_00.jpg

There is a settler in Nagsu looking for a home and another heading north to put some more pressure on Hispalis.

Newton's will be ours.

:scan: Trying to find the save.

:blush:

:sad: Hadn't had my coffee yet.

:coffee:

Save is now attached.

preturn: I sell Physics to India for WM+Navigation+121gpt+65g, to Vikings for 61gpt+129g, both full price.

I switch Push Our Luck to settler. I switch banks to courthouses as we want them in every town when Communism is coming.

660AD: IBT we get ToG and Newton.

670AD: We can do 4-turn research at 60% science.

Rome takes one more German city. Hmm, maybe we shouldn't have made the MA.

680AD: Rush settler from Seoul.

690AD: Buy Indian worker for 104g, the cheapest price I've ever seen.

Our GA ended. Arabs start Shakespear. I do an investigate and it's due in 36 turns. I switch Kish to a prebuild due in 26 turns and could shorten once we mine the mountain.

700AD: Rome razes Konigsburg. This is good.

710AD: 3 zerks enter our territory..this looks like a sneak attack..he wants to avoid the gpt payment?

720AD: I buy Free Artistry from Vikings by gems+37gpt and demand it to leave, and it declares. I MA with Rome by Economics. I give Ottomans WM+4gpt for an MA. I give India furs+2gpt for an MA. I leave Arabia alone to let AI figure it out themselves.

Shakespear in 20 turns.

EDIT: I replayed the turns and didn't buy FA as it violated the variant rule.

Looks like Leizpig flipped back to Germany. We found Zabalam next to Hamburg.

I made a mistake in researching Metallurgy first as Zeus becomes obsolete.

Kill 4 zerks.

IBT Rome razes Hamburg! Nice.

730AD: FA+21g to Ottomans to renew dyes. EDIT: so I didn't buy it.

We lose 3 AC and 2 knights but couldn't take Berlin. :( There are lots of spearmen there.

IBT Rome retreats from Germany. EW defeats zerk.

Note:

1. I have gathered another stack to take Berlin but it needs several turns to fully heal. Berlin still has a few spearmen but we should be able to take it next time.
2. We have 2 settlers at the front.
3. I would like to push for military now. We also should build some boats, as we need to starve coastal cities. Rome has wines next to P'yongyang that we could aggressively settle without declaring war. We need military to make sure we can handle if Rome declares.
4. I don't like the way Babil was founded. It has no purpose. If it was founded E-SE we could rush culture to claim the saltpeter. I switched it to settler and please rush it in 3 turns and found where I think it should be.
5. Communism will be one ultimate gov, but probably not until AI gets to Facism. Look at the propaganda formula, Republic has good modifier vs Monarchy (if we could get AI into that gov). Let's still get Steam/Industrialization first, then beeline to Espionage?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-750AD-2.jpg

Weird, did Hispalis sell its temple?

This means we could grab the saltpeter in not-so-many turns with temple and library.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-750AD.jpg

Roster:

LKendter - up
meldor - on deck

Microbe: Did you perhaps violate the variant rules?

"720AD: I buy Free Artistry from Vikings by gems+37gpt and demand it to leave, and it declares."

I realize that you didn't end up paying any gpt for the tech as the Vikings declared, but what if they had complied? You would have been stuck with a gpt deal for a tech...

JMB

Microbe: Did you perhaps violate the variant rules?

"720AD: I buy Free Artistry from Vikings by gems+37gpt and demand it to leave, and it declares."

I realize that you didn't end up paying any gpt for the tech as the Vikings declared, but what if they had complied? You would have been stuck with a gpt deal for a tech...

JMB

Good catch. I'm going to replay my turns. :(

:lol: busted! good job jmb ;)

I replayed and attached new save. Nothing much different other than that we didn't get FA (so the prebuild is still on) and no dyes from Ottomans.

Signed up:
Roster:
Microbe
LKendter (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Grahamiam
Bede

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MIC8-850AD.zip

750 AD
I stop paying Rome $14/turn for an alliance against Germany. We are really thin for military at home, and I want the option for peace in case the galley is full.

I sell India Metallurgy for Free Artistry, wm, $100 and $30/turn.

I agree with Microbe comment on needing military. I hate fighting the Vikings with coastal cities having one defender. Most of them are only regular EW, AC or even empty.


760 AD
Our free tech was Steam Power, and I am happy to report we have a coal source. Now all I have to do is connect it, and increase our pathetic worker force.


770 AD
(IT) Babil is abandoned via Settler.


790 AD
Salt Stealer is formed.
(IT) The Vikings take Apisala (the swamp island town) from us with a berserk. This is exactly why I wanted better coastal defense.


800 AD
I disband our worker on the swamp island.


810 AD
I felt the AI had a real RnG attitude at Berlin as multiple AC died or retreated vs. spears. However, in the end the RnG was nice. ;)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-667.jpg

We captured Berlin. Now we have to hope Rome takes the last Germany city or Berlin will flip on us.
(IT) Nationalism completes and we finally have quality defenders. Next up will be factories as we want Shakespeare to complete before the revolt.


820 AD
Kutallu is formed near Berlin.


830 AD
(IT) Rome has destroyed Germany.
The Arabs and Scandinavia ally vs. Rome.

I have the honor of getting the first one:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-668.jpg


====================

Summary:

We have the beginnings of a military rail net. We still need a lot more workers to finish it. I peeled some out of our cities, but we are painfully short still.

Signed up:
Roster:
Microbe
LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
Grahamiam (on deck)
Bede

(IT) The Vikings take Apisala (the swamp island town) from us with a berserk. This is exactly why I wanted better coastal defense.

Bad bad, I love that town. And we'd need tons of boats to starve it. :cry:

Basics of propaganda:

Just a summary.

First, starve it to size 1, which would cost around 130g. For size-2, it's double the cost, for size-3 triple, so on so forth. This is THE reason that we need to revolt to communism, as staying in enemy territory causes WW. But we could bombard every tile too, if we like.

Second, AI garrison makes it difficult. If AI has 4-5 defenders, it's almost never gonna work (or chance < 5%). So, when you surround the city, do leave one tile open and they WILL send out LBM and such to attack others, instead of staying in the town. The tile of course should be bombarded to have 0 food.

Third, I would suggest doing an investigation first to see how much garrison there is. Investigation is extremely cheap for size-1 (like 14g) and well worth it. We can also see if there are courthouses which adds resistance to propaganda there and if so we could avoid it. Not sure whether FP has the similar effect. Capital also is almost resistant to it.

I see it and it is added to the queue...

I just got an email from Meldor that he has the flu and needs to skip in his current games including this one.

ok, got it then

Preflight check: Turn down research by 10% so we don’t lose quite as much. Too bad we don’t have MT or I’d fill that Leader with Cav’s.
Hmm, no factory prebuilds going, so are we saving Lugalzaggesi for a Factory rush? Probably not. I’ll just make an empty army next turn and then we try to general another leader later.
Going to rush a couple of settlers in the new Roman areas so we can fill up the open spaces quickly.
Rush a Lib in Berlin for the same purpose.
Cycling thru all the towns reveals 2 settlers in Roman lands so probably scratch above.

IBT: Berlin Lib -> temple; Munich Lib -> harbor; Insin harbor -> barracks; Akkadian worker -> worker; Salt Stealer Temple -> Uni

T1: 860AD Trade: Sell Steam to India for WM, 180gpt, and MT; Sell Steam to Arabia for WM, 119gpt, 40g; Sell WM to Rome for 5gpt and 28g. Sell Physics to Ottomans for WM, dyes, and 7g
Leave the leader alone. No wars right now and no salt.

IBT: Rome wants us to ally vs the Arabs, no way! Ottomans want an MPP and RoP, no thanks
Arabs and Vikings MA vs us :( Guess that deal didn’t last long.

Industrialization -> Communism (5T @ 100%)

Golden Lava temple -> harbor

T2: 870AD RR net now heading SE with a bend near Sumner; Rush temple in Akshak.

IBT: Sign RoP with Ottomans; Umma barracks -> rifle; Agade rifle -> rifle; Erech rifle -> rifle; Akkadian worker -> worker; Akshak temple -> court

T3: 880AD RR net nearly complete. Switch Sumner, Bad-T, and Ur to factories.

IBT: India and Arabia MA vs us :(
Isin barracks -> rifle; Ninda Ku court -> Uni; Der Knight -> Knight; Pushing our Luck settler -> court

T4: 890AD Found Babil -> lib

IBT: :mad: Indians complete Shakespears, 1T ahead of us; Hispala flips to us and now we have salt :)

T5: 900AD Switch Kish to US.
Susa temple -> harbor;

T6: 910AD RR stuff
Commie -> Espionage (4T @ 90%); Revolt and get on 4T [party]

T7: 920AD Hire Taxman and RR (at +45gpt)

T8: 930AD RR and upgrade 3 knights

T9: 940AD RR and upgrade the last Knight

T10: 950AD RR. An Arabian Galley is heading up our West Coast. We have 2 cavs back there in case. I was also trying to shuffle rifles thru so we can beef up the defenses back there. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of mountains and hills where they are heading.

Still in Anarchy, but next player should get commie on the IBT

T1: 860AD Trade: Sell Steam to India for WM, 180gpt, and MT; Sell Steam to Arabia for WM, 119gpt, 40g

Arabs and Vikings MA vs us :( Guess that deal didn’t last long.
IBT: India and Arabia MA vs us :(


That's why I generally MA with whoever pay us huge gpt.

Got it.

Location for SPHQ? Or just use the third most productive town?

Too bad about Shake's.

Location for SPHQ? Or just use the third most productive town?

The SPHQ and FP seem to have a courthouse effect in there current city. I haven't proven it yet, but I would prefer the SPHQ not be build in the FP city.

IIRC, FP and SPHQ act the same, they reduce corruption by 70%. Courthouses and police stations each take 10% off. As such, I agree with Lee that it doesn't make any sense to put the SPHQ in the FP town.

MAXIMUM CORRUPTION

The sum of the distance and rank components of corruption can be greater than 100%. The game sets an upper limit for the total corruption in a city to be equal to 90% minus 10% for each city improvement and minus 70% for each Wonder in the city with the “reduces corruption” ability:
Cmax = max(0.9 – (0.1 * Ni + 0.7 * Nwc), 0)
basically, the FP and SPHQ towns can get down to 0% corruption if each has a court and police station.

Got it.

Location for SPHQ? Or just use the third most productive town?

Too bad about Shake's.

Ideally I would do it in a protentially productive town which currently has quite some corruption.

950
Indians are using their Right of Passage with the Turks and the Romans to slip their War Elephants into our territory and kill an AC at Dabrum.

What to do about that?

Anyway in 960 close out the alliances against the Vikings as we can probably flip the two cities Odense and the Marsh Island and there is not much we can do to starve them down. Our new army can reach the Vikes for a pillaging party but I want to keep the options open for a peace treaty.

India will make a peace deal and buy Industialization or Communism for 1903...That's about a 60% discount on our monopoly.

Renew the Rights of Passage with Rome as a straight up deal.

Osman is two techs out of the IA and we are still short Medicine...and have Military Tradition to sell for it. Only problem is he has nothing to offer for them so we'll wait and see if he picks up one or the other.

Both Arabia and India are too far away for us to have any short term influence....and I really want to settle into the Roman and Ottoman salients without having to worry about War Elephants and Ansars.

Abu will give up his war aims and buy Industrialization for 572+150gpt...wonder how long that deal will last....

Gandhi is a piker and won't offer more than 1900g for either factories or socialism....so Abu gets the nod and having stripped his treasury for over 3500g make a deal with Gandhi for another 1903g for Industrialization. then push a settler into the salient at Pyongyang. Building a nice little kitty here for some bribery....

And the blinkin' Arabs want a Mutual Protection Pact....

Darn, I didn't bankrupt the Arab, he put 41g in the treasury.

Not much doing between 960 and 1000 other than a 'Zerk landing at Kish, easily dealt with and founding two more towns on the salients with Rome. Sent the cavalry army up to Scandanavia looking for a victory against some loose berserkers and to do a little population adjustment through pillage.

In 1000 India and the Arabs ally against Rome, perfect. Now we can poach some more Roman territory. And the Ottomans line up against Rome allied with India....even better.

We learn Espionage and Sumer gets the SPHQ. Corruption and waste were at 25% on some pretty good production numbers, and is now down to less than 2% corruption and 4% waste.

Intelligence Agency is building in Bad Tibir while Kish will finish the Universal Suffrage. Not that we need it but I wanted to keep it out of the hands of the Indians, currently a Democracy.

India and the Arabs are going to town on the Romans, creating some pretty good propaganda opportunities for us. India has sent what looks like every War Elephant in the world against Pyongyang and it should fall into their hands soon, and with any luck flip right to us.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mic08_1050_00.jpg

The people are very, very happy even at 0% lux and corrruption and waste are almost negligible everywhere with a few cops on the beat and WLKTD breaking out all over. The volcano at Golden Lava is about to join the celebrations so the garrison was moved out to Hispalis.

Kept building factories and commercial stuff with the occasional rifleman and cavalry. Researching Electricity at 100% and still have a net positive cash flow.

Roster check:

Microbe - up
LKendter - on deck
Meldor
Grahamiam
Bede

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic08_1050AD.SAV)

preturn: Some adjustment on specialists. For example, Kua has two policement, which if put to work could generate the same shield but more food. There are quite a few cases like this. But I notice it's MM'ed for getting Electricity in 2 turns. I do some minor adjustment.

Umma switches to factory instead of a cathedral.

I switch some temples to workers. We really need a lot more of them.

We have at least 10 turns for ToE, and we do not need US. I switch IA to Palace as prebuild for ToE, and switch US to IA losing 270 shields.

1060AD: I plant a spy on Vikings.

And this is the fun part:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1060AD-Apisala.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1060AD-Iznik.jpg

This took two tries:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1060AD-Bursa.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1060AD-Viro.jpg

India is in democracy so we cannot do propaganda.

[To be contonued]

1070AD: I make peace with Vikings, paying 60g for 3 workers. Of course before that I capture another 2.

There is no point in fighting Vikings now.

1080AD: this time I fail 5 times on Pisae which is only size-1 and defended by 2 units. Well I'd save money for RP and upgrade..

1090AD: I sell Espionage to India for WM+132gpt+335g (full price).

Sign RoP with Vikings for 60g. Magnetism to Rome for WM+60g+2 workers.

1110AD: Found New Ur. Fail 3 timrs on Pisae again. What the hell?

1120AD: RP -> Medicine.

Upgrade some riflemen.

1140AD: Frankfurt is guarded by 2 units and size-1, and will be taken by India, so I try 4 times and get it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1140AD-Frankfurt.jpg

Veii is taken by Arabs and guarded by 2 units but I fail 4 times and take it the 5th time. We are broke with only 300g in bank.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1060AD-Veii.jpg

1150AD: Another Roman town is razed. Send a settler to claim. We should send more.

We should go for Sci Meth after Medicine. Our palace prebuild is due in 11 turns. We should start a Hoover prebuild too now. We then should follow AI research and slow down sci and save more money for espionage.

We can sell Nationalism or Industrialization to Vikings for some gold. I think we should do so.

Remember, investigate before propaganda. If there are too many defenders (like 3+), do not try it. We should probably focus in settling instead of propaganda.

We are not getting payment from Arabs so maybe we should encourage AI to fight it (especially India). India is still in Democracy and it shouldn't stay so.

Microbe
LKendter - up
Meldor - on deck
Grahamiam
Bede

curious, how much did those propaganda assaults cost (each time)?
thanks :)

It is first in line to play.

curious, how much did those propaganda assaults cost (each time)?
thanks :)

Did you read my "Propaganda basics"?

However, this game it seems to cost more than my previous game. It's about 185g for size-1.

Did you read my "Propaganda basics"?

However, this game it seems to cost more than my previous game. It's about 185g for size-1.
yes, but I figured those numbers were approximations.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MIC8-1250AD.zip

1150 AD
I like a turn of military push again. I really don't like having AC as the best defender in a city.

I take pity on Rome and send him Theory of Gravity for his 6 workers, $4 and wm.


1190 AD
(IT) The Scandinavia and Arab embargo ends.


1200 AD
New Sumer is formed.
(IT) Rome and Scandinavia sign a peace treaty.


1210 AD
(IT) ToE completes and we take the standard Atomic Theory and Electronics.
They must have known they where next turns propaganda target. ;)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-679.jpg


1220 AD
4 propaganda attempts at Leipzig fail even though it is size 1 and has just 2 defenders.


1230 AD
New Lagash is formed.

Well this went better. One the very first attempt we get:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-680.jpg

I don't know why Leipzig is being so stubborn, but 2 more attempts fail.
(IT) The Arabs destroy Rome.


1240 AD
It takes 2 more tries, but we finally get good news. Leipzig has joined our empire.

Cumae has way to many troops to try this time. However, I wonder how many will leave.


====================

Summary:
I left a settler and escort unmoved as I am not sure where to sent it.


Signed up:
Roster:
Microbe
LKendter
Meldor (currently playing?) I suspect he is still a skip due to the flu.
Grahamiam (on deck)
Bede

Beginning tomorrow after work, I'll be out of town till Sunday, and won't have time tonight to play.

Just saw the above note from g-man.

I'll swap so he can have it Sunday.

India has gone brown shirt and is now Fascist so no more worries about Democratic immunity from agitprop. Take a peek into Cumae and there are still 5 defenders so wait on sending the pamphleteers.

1255
For 144g Ottoman Empire is now 1CC.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mic08_1255_00.jpg

They are also at peace with the world so it is time to move some horsemen to Uskudar for a little recon and a quick strike.

And India declares war on us. Many workers are captured but no defenders are killed at New Sumer

1260
It takes pretty much every troop we have in the east and west to finish the Indian Expeditionary Force but it is accomplished leaving only three singleton riflemen on the loose and get all the workers back.

A propaganda effort against Cumae does not succeed, however, meaning there is a wounded cavalryman still to be dealt with.

Sign the Arabs and the Vikings up against India for some luxury goods.

The Arabs take and burn Cumae and kill some Indians in the east.

The Indians invest Iznik with rifles and cut all the roads.

In 1265 clean up the last of the Indian interlopers in old Germany.

Arabia has gone Democratic so no propaganda against Pompeii.

The Indians are pillaging at Iznik and will take it next

1270
Iznik falls to India.

1275
Three propaganda attempts at Aydin fail.

1280
More propaganda at Aydin fails.

Declare on the Ottomans.

Iznik falls to the Vikings.

1285
Two cavalry attacks and Uskudar falls to the cavalry.

Iznik changes hands twice, first back to India, then back to Vikings.

Heroic Epic done in Kua.

1290
Moving forces supported by workers to the front line with India. The terrain is really ugly and I want to preserve movement.

More propaganda at Aydin fails.

1295
Propaganda at Aydin succeeds.

1300
Three tries at 94g and Iznik is back in our hands.

And steal the Corporation from India. We may not need tanks but battleships would be nice for reducing the Vikings.

If we can keep roading and railing to the next propaganda target then we can defend it. I have been ignoring the Indian cavalry as I would like them full strength when they go up against the Arabs. We have way too much force in Iznik for them to think about trying the town. There's a gap at Erdrine on the south coast that a settler could fill (2NE of New Isin) which just might close the borders around Erdrine.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MIC08_1300_01.jpg

got it

edit: sorry, thought i'd have it done last night but turns were taking a little longer than expected. will finish tonight, just past my 48hrs.

Preflight check: Cycle thru the towns and finish moving the workers.

IBT:

T1: 1305AD Investigate Molde. 2 rifles and 1 citizen, 5 Arab cavs in range. It takes 5 try but it finally flips to us.
Investigate Pompei, 2 rifles, 3 citizens (2 non-Arab). Figure out that I can’t initiate Propaganda on friends :) Shows how much I’ve used this feature :lol:
Found New Zeblam on Bede’s spot -> Lib.
Found New Kisurra to Pressure the Arab town of Neapolis.

IBT: Hoover Dam completed in Sumer; MilAcademy in Bad-T

T2: 1310AD Reinforce Molde, bringing in more troops

T3: 1315AD Beginning to “hug” Chittagong

IBT: Indians are building Guerrillas

T4: 1320AD

T5: 1325AD

T6: 1330AD Safely Steal Refining from Indians

T7: 1335AD

T8: 1340AD

T9: 1345AD Investigate Chittagong, it has 5 units and 2 citizens. Probably should have gone after the Arabs or Vikings :( However, we still have 3 turns left on the MA vs the Indians and I didn’t want to break that deal.

T10: 1350AD Choking. I have some ship builds going, Pirates in 50spt towns and Frigates in 30spt towns. I think we need these to choke off some of the coastal towns. Also, a galleon is headed NE from the core to pick up a settler & infantry and stick them between Neapolis and Ravenna.

Sorry, but it took me a while due to all the worker moves and figuring out how to block off the Arabs while starving the Indians. Oh, and next player should open a route to Chittagong so the Indians can let some units out.

Situation at mid-Pangea
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MIC8-1350AD.JPG

preturn: as I mentioned, we should not completely seal a town, as that would force its units to stay inside and cause it difficult to flip. I open one shattered tile for Chittagong.

Bukhara has 3 garrison. Try three times and fail. I think it's better 2 garrison and less..

Where are our settlers? We can settle anywhere.

IBT two units attack us out of Chittagong.

1355AD:

1360AD: cancel MA.

Notice Arabia is in anarchy, and Ravenna is guarded by 2 riflemen. So although it's size-2, I try propaganda. It takes 7 times and finally it's ours.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1360AD-Ravenna.jpg

1365AD: Arabia revolts back to Republic. It's new. I thought AI wouldn't revolt to WW gov while it's at war..

1370AD: I've been trying to demand Vikings to leave but it agrees without action. I demand gold for several times and then ask again, and it declares.

I also MA with Arabs by furs+13gpt.

1375AD: disconnect India's iron. We are going to settle there.

1380AD: Vikings and India sign peace.

1385AD: Bukhara is defended by 2 rifles now. It takes 13 tries to take it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1385AD-Bukhara.jpg

IBT we complete Iron Works.

1395AD: I can't believe we haven't built Wall Street.

1400AD: Arabia is in anarchy again, and Birka is guarded by 2 units with size-2, so I try again, and get it at the 3rd try.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1400AD-Birka.jpg

Note: I set continental rally point at Seoul. We have a lot of settlers to use. We have some settlers that can already settle next turn. We are kinda short of infantry.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1400AD-India.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8-1400AD-Vikings.jpg

:confused: I don't know why Microbe didn't post a roster.

Signed up:
Roster:
Microbe
LKendter (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Grahamiam
Bede

Because I know you won't miss it. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MIC8-1450AD.zip

1400 AD
I agree with Microbe that our military is pathetic. I think the frigates are to try and starve coastal cities, but right know I want defenders. I cancel the frigates to build infantry.

In addition, we are still way short of workers. I have found several cities working unimproved tiles.

We already have *11* unused settlers, but we are building more. All the settlers in the world are worthless without escorts. I swap 4 to workers, and plan limit additional ones until the escort pool is larger.


1405 AD
It only takes 2 tries:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-691.jpg

Once again I prove you never want to upgrade obsolete elite units.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-692.jpg

New Dabrum is formed to push borders against Aarhus.

Well I expected the city to be tougher then one try:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-693.jpg

It took 4 tries, but add another one to the list:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-694.jpg


This greatly simplifies our lines. The only problem is the obvious targets are gone.

Ur 2 and Sumer 2 are formed. With getting rid of those behind the nuisance cities I have freed up some infantry.


1410 AD
Lagash 2 is formed.

I can't get Odense any smaller then size 2. I am going to start the propaganda campaign anyhow. I give up this turn after 12 failed attempts.


1415 AD
Kish 2 is formed near Delhi.

By opening the gap one of the defenders have left Odense to be killed. I am going to try again. On the very first try:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-695.jpg


1425 AD
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-696.jpg

Looks like we get another army.


1435 AD
Umma 2 and Bad-tibira 2 are formed to further squeeze the Vikings.


1440 AD
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-697.jpg

We have yet another army.

Why is it in a lower war game I get more leaders?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-698.jpg

Scandinavia is in anarchy! I take a few swipes at Aarhus, but no luck.


1445 AD
Agade 2 is formed.
(IT) Scandinavia and India sign a peace treaty. I never even saw any sign of them fighting.


1450 AD
Aarhus has dropped to size 1. The number of defenders is still a bit high, but I don't think it will get any better then this. I am surprised that it only took 4 tries.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-699.jpg

Erech 2, Isin 2, Akshak 2, and Zabalam 2 are formed.

====================

Summary:
Keep an eye on Oslo. I removed all the nearby troops now that it starved to size 1. I hope this will get some of the excess defenders to leave.

Now that the water tiles are blocked I hope Stockholm will drop to size 1 soon.

We are now at 60% land and 66% population. I would be shocked if I see this game again.

Signed up:
Roster:
Microbe
LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
Grahamiam (on deck)
Bede

I see it and it is in the queue...

I didn't have time to finish this tonight but I wanted to give ya'll a teaser
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Oslo.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Trondheim.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bergen.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Stockholm.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ScanEnd.JPG

BTW, we are at 62% land and 66% population.

How did we destroy Vikings? Did we flip its last city?

Sorry, pictures in the wrong order. We took them out by capturing their capital. I didn't see where we had done this yet and the thing wouldn't flip. It had one defender left and the Arabs were about to take it.

Well I am glad to see my work on starving the Vikings paid off. :D

I knew we were getting close.

Well I am glad to see my work on starving the Vikings paid off. :D

I knew we were getting close.Yes, that and the Arabs attacking the captital pulled the extra troops out of the other cities to defend it. I now need to prepare for war with Arabia as they are the one with cities behind our lines. By the look of it, they didn't have much to throw at the Scandies.

I didn't get home until 9:30 tonight so I didn't get much time. I will finish this tomorrow. Here is the progress:

I didn't even try for this one and it was size six...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Neapolis.JPG

This one went on the first try...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Dacca.JPG

BTW, we are at 64% land and over the needed population.

Early: Worked on the Scandies. I let their troops out to defend the capital and one at a time, we turned the others. Once the capital was the last city, we captured it.

Middle, I went to work on the Indians. We got a bonus flip from the Arabs.

Late: Went after the Indians aggressively. Couldn't get any late flips but with the settlements and the border expansions we get:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Mic8Final.JPG

Here is the save, just end theturn, press enter on everything and you are done:

Good game all. It turned out not difficult and we had some fun.

:thanx: for the fun and games of agitprop

nice game everyone! enjoyed being able to finally use this feature of C3C :lol:

Interesting game, but not something I want to repeat.

It actually took me longer to do a turn here, then in a game at war.

I actually want to try again at demigod, probably without the self-research rule. But I'm currently in a burned-out mode for CIV, so I'll put it as a future plan.