MPSG1 - modified AW China Monarch [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

MeteorPunch

Mar 11, 2005, 09:26 PM

Sure, I'm "in". :D

cool! Here's the start:

4000 Found Beijing. goodie hut gives warrior ( :mad: )...start science on pottery.
3950 Warrior starts exploring South
3900
3850
3800
3750 Beijing builds warrior to explore North.
3700 Beijing starts on barracks. Contact Arabia. They have Pottery and Ceremonial Burial that we can't trade for. :mischief:
3650
3600
3550 Beijing switches to Pyramids to prebuild Granary.
3500
3450
3400 Pottery is discovered. Start research on Bronze Working to figure out where the Iron is.
3350 Production switched to Granary.
3300 Northern exploring Warrior returns home to keep the peace.
3250
3200
3150
3100 Warrior discovers the Arabian city.
3050 Beijing builds Warrior. Starts work on Settler.
3000 Road connects Ivory to Beijing.

I marked on the map 2 possible city spots. There is a river SE, but still no close range settler factory (Beijing will be th Settler factory). The Arabs are also just below Beijing vertically and to the East. Feel free to share strategies. I'm thinking Swordsmen and Ancient Cavalries. :evil:

MeteorPunch

Mar 11, 2005, 09:30 PM

Here's the save file. The Admiral is up next.

Tomoyo

Mar 11, 2005, 09:36 PM

MeteorPunch

Mar 11, 2005, 09:49 PM

Thoughts:

- Stop exploring? With no trades, contacts will be close to useless, so we should only explore our immediate area.
- Research: Bronze Working, Iron Working, but then do we want to try for TGL?
- Pillagers. We can use our current scouts to be a nuisance to other civs.
- 3 tile spacing? That's the norm for AW, but this is only Monarch, and we will have ACavs at least.
- Do we want to follow SesnOfWthr's preaching or Arizona_Steve's? In other words, offensive defense or defensive offense?

Awesome strategies (I am teh n00b).

1. Yes the warrior should continue exploring a little until we know "our" area.
2. We should try like mad for tGL as we are doing all the research. Right after Iron or sooner?
3. Doesn't pillaging cause war? Don't pillage until you're ready to fight.
4. I don't know much about spacing...whatever seems best, overlapping a few.
5. not familiar. Basically Expand/War/tGL/ToZ :D

Tomoyo

Mar 11, 2005, 09:54 PM

3. Doh, I was thinking that this was straight AW. :crazyeye: Anyway, they are far away. It sounds like a good idea, but it will probably bite us later because we can't make peace. However, if we get away with pillaging the Arabs' core, it will severly cripple them.

6. Horsemen upgrade to our shiny Riders. We might want to think about finding out where the horses are, but I think, after IW, we should go towards TGL.

MeteorPunch

Mar 11, 2005, 10:03 PM

6. Horsemen upgrade to our shiny Riders. We might want to think about finding out where the horses are, but I think, after IW, we should go towards TGL.

True. Wait for horses until we have the growth and wonders situated. Towards the end of the ancient age we can start on them.

Tone

Mar 12, 2005, 01:27 AM

Please add me to the rota if there is still room.

Two things:

1. No hitlist-correct?
2. We can use the diplo screen as much as we want but no trading and no PT-correct?

(I hope I haven't double posted this-if so sorry!)

MeteorPunch

Mar 12, 2005, 01:30 AM

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 12, 2005, 05:20 AM

got it.

1. need to explore until we find fresh water (unless I just can't see it on the screenie)
6. gonna go IW, alpha, writing will then decide on math or wheel depending if we have ponies

Tomoyo

Mar 12, 2005, 07:47 AM

6. How do we know if we have ponies if we don't have The Rolly Thingy?

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 12, 2005, 12:52 PM

6. IW, alpha, writing and then let people who actually know the tech tree decide ;)

2750 - drop science to 10%.

IT - BW > IW. Up science to 90%

2670 - Build Shanghai to pull in 4 BG.

2470 - 2 of Abu's lads approach our borders. Here comes our first war.

2390 - Tell Abu to leave or declare. As expected he declares flawlessy.

2350 - One warrior impales himself. The other fortifies outside Beijing.

2310 - 2 more of Abu's lads incoming near the ivory. Move archer, spear and warrior to cover.

2150 - Abu's lads flawlessly impale themselves on the gates of Beijing.

Beijing built (in this order): settler, warrior, archer, spear, spear, rax, archer
Shaghai built: rax

:crazyeye: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Meteor_ak_2150_BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/meteor2150.jpg

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 12, 2005, 12:57 PM

1. why stop exploring? we don't have to declare until we want to. Although some jealous bully may declare on us when we turn them down.

We're not caving to any demands are we?

red dot then yellow dot gets our water to take back to the settler pump. In the meantime, Tomoyo can fix whatever I've messed up. :) Note the 2 gems locations. I seem to have spent most of our money so we'll need to back off research a bit.

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 12, 2005, 01:02 PM

ok, I had just finished suggesting we explore north a bit more, then I look down and discover AK posted between the time I was looking at the message and clicked "Reply"... :rolleyes:

I believe it's my turn now? At least, that's what the roster on the first page says. Tomoyo is welcome to go if she wants. Of course, neither of us can go if AK doesn't post the save. :lol:

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 12, 2005, 01:14 PM

The save is posted in Post 35. A la Tomoyo, I hid it.

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 12, 2005, 01:21 PM

The save is posted in Post 35. A la Tomoyo, I hid it.

Oh...I thought that was just you going crazy... ;) Well, I guess everything is fine then. :blush: I'm sorry I accused you of forgetfullness, AK. :)

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 12, 2005, 01:24 PM

Iroquoisplisken -> up if he can find the save
Tomoyo -> on deck, teaching me to hide things :crazyeye:

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 12, 2005, 01:28 PM

Ooh, a treasure hunt! :)

Got it.

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 12, 2005, 02:38 PM

Pre-turn – MM to get IW in 3 instead of 4.

2110 (1) – nothing…

IBT – The Arabs request an audience…I believe I can meet with them, I just can’t negotiate or sign peace. Wow, he’s willing to give us Medina or a tech (he’s up Alph, Wheel, and CB). Oh well!

2070 (2) – nothing. Settler and IW due next turn.

IBT – IW->Alpha due in 13 @ 70%, +1 gpt.

2030 (3) – Beijing settler->settler. Send him off to AK’s suggested spot. We have iron on the hill just north of Beijing. 2 warriors arrive next to Medina, but there’s a river separating us from a reg spear.

IBT – Incas are building the Oracle.

1990 (4) – Shanghai spear->archer. Not much else.

1950 (5) – Ok, that was weird. One of the warriors near Medina seemed to just disappear…then I look in preferences, and see battle and enemy animations is turned off. The warrior was killed by an archer who took no damage. The other warrior attacks the reg spear, and actually wins, taking just 1 damage, and promoting. Another spear and an archer are left, though.

IBT – Our wonder warrior is attacked by the archer, and survives, but is redlined.

1910 (6) – Found Canton ->warrior. Our warrior retreats, and send the archer who escorted the settler towards Medina. We have a couple of spices towards the SW.

1870 (7) – Beijing settler->worker (we need more, and city’s only at size 2). Send him to second of AK’s city sites.

1830 (8) – nothing…

1790 (9) – Beijing worker->archer (can change to something else). Shanghai archer->archer. Archer attacks Medina, but dies, dealing one damage to spear. It is the last defender, though, unless there’s an archer.

1750 (10) – Warrior attacks Medina and wins, losing 1 hp (it was only at 3/4 to begin with, though). We destroy Medina. An archer is right next to our warrior, though, so he’ll most likely die next turn. Which isn’t that bad, since we’re making –1 gpt, with only 2 gold…

For next person: Alphabet is due in 6, but we’ll have to move the slider back, unless we can keep it to at least breaking even. The iron will be hooked up in 2 turns, and then we can really bring the hurt to Arabia. Maybe we should switch one or both archer builds to swords? The warrior being built in Canton due next turn can escort the settler (who’s on a Goto order btw).

In the pic, the red circle is where the settler is heading. The yellow are spots that look good to ME, but I'll let people more experience at city placement decide if they're good. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/China_1750.JPG

MeteorPunch

Mar 12, 2005, 02:40 PM

I was thinking about our strategy a little bit. Since this is small map we only need about 8 or so initial cities - a good core and a couple more hooked up to luxuries. If we get tGL and SoZ we will be in for an easy ride, if not, it could be challenging.

MeteorPunch

Mar 12, 2005, 02:43 PM

City placement: I would move from the Yellow dot SE,SE to give another spot N of the Capitol. Looks like Tomoyo's up!

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 12, 2005, 02:57 PM

Tomoyo

Mar 12, 2005, 03:06 PM

Tomoyo is welcome to go if she wants.*adds IroPlisk to the list... :mischief:

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 12, 2005, 03:22 PM

*adds IroPlisk to the list... :mischief:

Oh, wait...you're a guy, aren't you? Sorry...:blush: From what I've seen I'm not the first to make this mistake.

MeteorPunch

Mar 12, 2005, 03:29 PM

There are a couple of whales to the W, but the only way we could get both is if we put a city on the forest 1 N of the yellow dot. If we moved 1 SE, we wouldn't get either.

EDIT: Here's a pic that shows the whales:

Heh, oops. I meant the other yellow dot up north. :lol:

EDIT: and the dot you're pointing out ("The famed Western Yellow Dot") needs to be moved N so we can get both whales.

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 12, 2005, 03:39 PM

Heh, oops. I meant the other yellow dot up north. :lol:

EDIT: and the dot you're pointing out ("The famed Western Yellow Dot") needs to be moved N so we can get both whales.

Ok, that makes more sense. I was wondering why you thought there wasn't enough room for another city in between.

So the northern dot 1 SE or 2? I'm guessing 2 (which I agree with), but just want to make sure.

And I agree with moving the Southern dot 1 N. We won't get a spice until one expansion, but I think getting both whales is more important. Unless someone else disagrees?

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 12, 2005, 04:22 PM

I'd like to grab the gems in addition to every thing else.

Tomoyo

Mar 12, 2005, 04:25 PM

Don't you think the proposed city placement is way too far apart? This game will most likely not see the Industrial Ages, since there will be so much warring.

Got it by the way.

MeteorPunch

Mar 12, 2005, 04:38 PM

Don't you think the proposed city placement is way too far apart? This game will most likely not see the Industrial Ages, since there will be so much warring.

Got it by the way.

For the Northern ones, no. And for the southern "whale city" the desert won't be productive even if it gets moved closer, unless we want it to share a bunch of beijing's tiles?

Tomoyo

Mar 12, 2005, 05:02 PM

Pre-flight: I don't like the way our cities are placed. Canton is too far from Beijing, and is hard to reinforce.

WHY ARE WE SENDING A SETTLER TO RED DOT? WE ARE AT WAR AND HAVE NO CORE!

Stop the Go-to order.

IT: Warrior dies, as expected.

Canton: Warrior --> Barracks

1725BC (1): Turn science down a notch. Turn settler around.

IT: Cuzco completes the Oracle. Portugese scout finds us.

1700BC (2): Iron connected.

1675BC (3): Lose a warrior.

IT: Beijing: Swordsman --> Swordsman

1650BC (4): Science to 10%.

IT: Alphabet --> Writing

Shanghai: Swordsman --> Swordsman

1625BC (5): Dunno.

1600BC (6): An Indian warrior shows up.

1575BC (7): Nanking founded. Starts worker.

IT: Beijing: Swordsman --> Settler

1550BC (8): Spear arrives at the gates of Mecca.

1525BC (9): Decide not to pillage with the spear because there are too many improved tiles and not that many citizens in Mecca.

IT: Shanghai: Swordsman --> Swordsman

1500BC (10): Mini SoD ready to advance next turn. Take all the troops.

Notes:
- This is not the game for conventional land grab techniques. We need production. Lots of it and now.
- We can always take land away with force, unlike a normal game.
- Tight build! We won't reach the Industrial Age, much less research Sanitation.
- Prebuild for TGL? Maybe in Shanghai after we get a few more cities.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MPSG1_1500BC.jpg (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MPSG1_Tomo_1500_BC.SAV)

MeteorPunch

Mar 12, 2005, 06:47 PM

GJ Tomoyo. I agree with Tomoyo's red dot placements. Place the cities close to the capitol and work your way out. Keep defending, building settlers, and prebuild tGL or SoZ if possible. Tone is up next!

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 12, 2005, 07:10 PM

Yeah, I guess you're right, Tomoyo. AK originally decided on those city placements to get fresh water ASAP.

One question though...why is Canton now called Guangzhou?!? Did you change the name? And if so, why?

Most of those city placements are where I was thinking too. The city S of Nanking may be a little close, though.

How about another city right about where those workers are between Beijing and Canton (or whatever it's called now)?

Tomoyo

Mar 12, 2005, 08:22 PM

1. I don't like Firaxis' Romanizations. I was born in Guangzhou (known to you people as Canton) and I wanted to rename it to a more accurate Romanization. Nanking is now Nanjing for the same reason. Here's the rest of the city list if you want it, or you can just renamed them back.

Tsingtao
Xinjian
Chengdu
Hangchow
Tientsin
Tatung
Macao
Anyang
Shantung
Chinan
Kaifeng
Ningpo
Paoting
Yangchow

I put the city S of Nanjing there so it would be behind the river. It probably won't matter that much, anyway. On the other side of the river is also good for counterattacking. :)

Tone

Mar 13, 2005, 01:23 AM

OK, am I being stupid? I can't see the save anywhere! :confused:

MeteorPunch

Mar 13, 2005, 01:35 AM

OK, am I being stupid? I can't see the save anywhere! :confused:

They are having scavenger hunts :D . Search for it in the post.

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 13, 2005, 03:13 AM

I agree with tight city placement (which I do in normal games too since I don't like hospitals). When I did my original map, the SW desert was unexplored and the focus was to get water back to the capitol to make it a settler pump. Shanghai is where it is to pull the 4BG for use in TGL. Arabs are doing OCC I take it?

Tomoyo

Mar 13, 2005, 07:35 AM

Arabs have two cities (there's one to the east of Mecca).

Three workers do irrigation in one turn, so we should use the worker coming from Nanjing to irrigate back to Bejing, but not until the road makes it.

Tone

Mar 13, 2005, 01:49 PM

Tomoyo

Mar 13, 2005, 02:07 PM

If you leave Nanjing undefended you can get four attackers...

I would either build on your suggestion or on a northern grass spot.

MeteorPunch

Mar 13, 2005, 02:12 PM

I've had a look at the save-you weren't joking when you said a mini SOD :) Still two swords and an archer should do the job.

Any ideas about our settler? Most of the red dots are in plains so I was thinking about the one by the cows. The grass around there is sufficient to build workers at first and that's what we need to get those plains irrigated.

Are you gonna steal beijing's precious cow :mischief: ? That's fine, or one of the two northern spots. we might have to micromanage the cow to get it's best usefulness between two cities.

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 13, 2005, 02:24 PM

My vote is for one of the spots NE of Shanghai and turn it into another rax city. Not much defense to worry about.

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 13, 2005, 03:09 PM

My vote is for one of the spots NE of Shanghai and turn it into another rax city. Not much defense to worry about.

I agree. Normally, I would vote for a city farther south, near the AIs, to prevent them from settling the spot. But as Tomoyo pointed out, we'll be taking most of our cities by force. ;)

I would say the city farther north (actually the northern most dot) is better suited for production. Although I'm only going by the screenshot, it has some forests, and tobacco (that increases shields, not food, right?). Plus, it's farther away from Beijing, so it won't affect its prodcution as much.

MeteorPunch

Mar 13, 2005, 03:14 PM

Tobacco sucks. It gives 1 extra commerce.

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 13, 2005, 03:19 PM

oh...well the rest of my points still stand...and it's not like we don't need commerce. ;)

My second city choice would be the one by the gems, but I don't think we are having any happiness problems yet.

Tone

Mar 13, 2005, 04:58 PM

OK, NE of Shanghai it is.

The other red dot in the north will not grow as it is surrounded by hills and forests. We need some workers to develop our lands and chop the forests for shield bonuses as we have no workers in our core and our citizens are working undeveloped tiles-not good for production or commerce!

@IP: I really don't see the attraction of the gem city at the moment. It will only help curb unhappiness and then only when we can spare a worker to hook the gems up (sorry to go on about workers again :mischief: ) and it will produce next to nothing for a looooooooonnnng while.

@Tamoyo: I was choosing a different attack path so the other sword was just behind the others. The lead sword will wait and the others will follow.

@MP I wasn't looking to steal the cow but I think that as it only gives +3 food there is one turn in 4 that our capital doesn't make use of the food and could work the iron instead. A little mm never hurt anyone ;) Maybe our next city could go there?

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 13, 2005, 05:18 PM

Our biggest advantage in this variant is that we get to choose the moment to declare. Right now, we got to worry about the Arabs. All else flows from that. My vote for short term objectives is kill Abu and hook up water to Beijing. When we're halfway there, we worry about what to do next.

Tone

Mar 13, 2005, 06:16 PM

turn 0 (1500)
Press enter!

IBT
Guangzhou:rax>warrior (will change to sword when workers get there)
Portugal has built the Colossus.

turn 1 (1475)
Reduce research to 60% due to cost of barracks. SOD(sic) assembles and the other sword goes on ahead. There is a cow NW of Mecca-that is where our next settler should go and pump out workers (yes, here I go again! :rolleyes: )

IBT
Beijing:settler>sword

turn 2 (1450)
settler north, army onwards...

turn 3 (1425)
now at the gates...

IBT
An archer skirts around our army heading for Nanjing.

turn 4 (1400)
Attack! First sword loses two hp but defeats the spear. Second sword causes no damage and the defender is promoted to vet status! Third sword takes Mecca without losing a hp and captures, wait for it, two slaves! :p The citizen isn't too happy so we set it to be a scientist. Our elite archer then deals with the enemy archer. Heal and then onto Damascus?
Tsingtao is built in the north (worker)

IBT
Shanghai:sword>sword.

turn 5 (1375)
Army starts to heal. zzz

IBT
Beijing:sword>settler

turn 6 (1350)
zzz

IBT
Nanjing:worker>worker

turn 7 (1325)
Up lux to cope with unhappiness but switch build in Shanghai to settler. Army heads for Damascus with reinforcements still a little way behind in Nanjing.

turn 8 (1300)
Army heads onwards and we now have a chain of workers irrigating back to Beijing completing one tile per turn.

IBT
Shanghai:settler>sword
We have Writing. Go for the Wheel

turn 9 (1275)
Our forces are on the cultural borders of Damascus. It hasn't expanded but it's size 3 (irr wfp!)

IBT
Beijing: settler>sword

turn 10 (1250)
Army is ready to attack next turn. settlers are in place.

Notes:
The workers are not in synch when irrigating. The worker at the back can finish the tile currently being watered and the two that are busy at the moment then become free to do the next (or whatever you want them to do!)

The Wheel is a 4-turn research so be ready to take it down a notch or two soon.

Please feel free to change any builds! Enjoy!

MeteorPunch (up next)
Admiral Kutzov (on deck)
IroquoisPlisken
Tomoyo
Tone (just played)

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84514&stc=1)

MeteorPunch

Mar 13, 2005, 07:13 PM

Third sword takes Mecca without losing a hp and captures, wait for it, two slaves! :p

gj with Mecca :king: . I'll see what I can do now.

MeteorPunch

Mar 13, 2005, 07:51 PM

Here's the game log, no more Arabia! Read two importan notes***

1250 (press enter)
1225 our 4/5 elite archer loses the archer dual for Damascus for the Arabian capitol :rolleyes:
Xinjian founded.
1200 Swordsman kills Arabs rushed (unfortified) spearman
Chengdu founded
1175 Discover the Wheel. We have horsy's! Start work on Ceremonial Burial. We need Monarchy as our next Government+We have to do all our own research - so research short research techs??
Wounded Swordsman retreats. Reinforcements on the way.
1150 Archer kills our swordsman. Swordsman kills archer :lol:
1125 -
1100 Road is built connecting Mecca. The unhappies "get over it."
Damascus taken! Arabs are no more. :goodjob:
1075 Ceremonial Burial Discovered. We are WAY behind in tech. :(
Focus on Growth/Defense???
1050 -
1025 -
1000 ***There is a Portuguese warrior eyeballing Chengdu...I sent Beijing's Spearmen just in case.
***There is a settler/Spearmen attempting to build the 2 Whale city, but an Inca scout just blocked us.

Admiral Kutzov is up!

Our glorious Empire:

MeteorPunch

Mar 13, 2005, 07:52 PM

Save file:

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 13, 2005, 08:02 PM

why did we research CB? We need mounted idiots and stone throwing shamans. Given your post, I guess we get to keep cities if we want to. I'll proceed along that line of thought. Got it.

MeteorPunch

Mar 13, 2005, 08:10 PM

why did we research CB? We need mounted idiots and stone throwing shamans. Given your post, I guess we get to keep cities if we want to. I'll proceed along that line of thought. Got it.

Mounted idiots are only available to the Iroquois :p . There are no trades so we have to do all our own research+we need Monarchy. What are you suggesting we go for?

MeteorPunch

Mar 13, 2005, 08:13 PM

Oh man! I totally forgot about us *Urgently Needing* the GL and SoZ!!! :cry: :cry: Please start working on that :worship:

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 13, 2005, 09:23 PM

Mounted idiots Idiots is a self reference. See below. @ all - assume when it's my turn we'll get in another war.

preflight: myst is done in 1. What do I know, I'm an idiot? Let it finish. I would have said it's too soon. Change Beijing to settler. Not too worried about 2 whales; more worried about 1 spice. Act accordingly. proposed order is red, blue, yellow, green. http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mstart.jpg

IT: myst in, start lit @ 80%. Shanghai settler to palace

975: up lux to 20%

925: plant Hangchow

IT: Beijing settler > sword. Mecca walls > chariot. Nanjing rax > chariot. Tsingato worker > rax.

900: plant Tientsin.

IT: G'zhou settler > sword

875 IT: Damascus walls > worker

850: drop sci to 70%. Plant Tatung.

825 IT: Inca declare. Their 3/3 warrior loses to our 2/2 warrior

800 IT: Beijing sword >sword. Xinjian spear > sword.

775: Drop sci to 40%

750: Left a lot for next player.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/meteor750.jpg

We're stretched really thin. Good luck on predicting the incoming inca. Lots of moves left. Shanghai doing TGL prebuild.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Metepr_ak_750_BC.SAV

MeteorPunch

Mar 13, 2005, 10:07 PM

Admiral, are you starting wars to keep it interesting? ;) .

-Some horsemen might be good at defending our large borders (and upgrading to Riders).

- Check the Military advisor to compare ours vs Inca's

- I don't know if we have the capacity to invade yet (maybe we do?). If we can just hold them off and build SoZ?

- The GL is high priority, we are way behind in tech (last I played).

- Try not to start any more wars - if you can... :mischief:

IroquoisPlisken is up!

Tone

Mar 14, 2005, 01:50 AM

I suspect that the Inca town in the north will be lighly defended-IMO it is probably worth sending some of the swords in ex-Arabia to deal with this threat from behind us and then return to hit them from the north to take out/capture Vilca.

Chengdu is a tile further away than I was expecting, given that we agreed with Tamoyo's red dots-this makes it a little difficult to squeeze another town between it and the spices. There are plenty of unused tiles by the capital and tight placement means that we use more of them! We have many developed tiles around our capital area that are not being used but other cities struggle working bare plains.

A simple suggestion: mm Guangzhou and Nanjing so that they both have +2 food-it will not affect production and will help it in the long run as more people = more shields.

Another reasonably simple suggestion that takes a little longer: Irrigate the cows! With mm we can turn it into a six turn sword/settler factory if its first turn on sword production takes it from size 4 to 5!

A more contoversial suggestion: No more spears! Mounted units for mobile defence and swords for punch. I suspect that they will have a few scouts which are fast but feeble. Chariots should be able to hit them before they hit us and our swords will wipe up their towns with ease. What are the spears going to do that these two can't do already?

And a final suggestion: Roads are useful for mobile defence and give commerce for research. Towns get more productive when they grow and get bigger so +2 food is normally a minimum IMO. We can catch up and overtake the AI research and still maintain a decent army if we get more workers and use them to develop cities that need it. I know that they don't attack cities but if you don't have workers you don't utalise the true value of the cities you have so indirectly they do produce units. 5 workers and 3 slaves for 11 cities (soon to be 12) is insufficient IMO.

In the meantime perhaps the four workers that have just mined the iron could head south and get those towns that have barracks growing and really producing units?

BTW I think that we are in a really strong position-take out the Inca and grow into the space provided!

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 14, 2005, 05:19 AM

The 4 workers haven't moved. I didn't send them south due to worries about CS popping out of the fog. We've got nothing to cover the workers.

Irrigate the cows! Was planning to do this. Then the incan warrior next to G'zhou attacked. The four workers are unmoved and can irrigate the cow before they move off.

Agree we need more workers.

Tone

Mar 14, 2005, 06:32 AM

If it's too dangerous to move them south, move them north, chop those forests and road/mine those grasslands. When we have got a covering unit they can work in groups of course.

Tomoyo

Mar 14, 2005, 06:33 AM

I don't think spearmen are useless. We can build very cheap walls, so we can just plop a town down, set up the walls, and make a kill zone that uses defending as a (very good) last resort.

MeteorPunch

Mar 14, 2005, 07:05 AM

If you are building spears in a productive city that only needs 1-2 extra turns to build a swordsman than it is a waste. Spears can be useful for outskirt cities.

Tone

Mar 14, 2005, 12:05 PM

I will bow to the group decision on spears. I just haven't built a spear for so long I can't remember!

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 14, 2005, 03:26 PM

Actually, I agree with Tone that spears are not that important. I might build one in an outlying city, but I concentrate more on Swords. Same defence, much better attack, and for not many more shields (can't remember exact numbers right now, though...).

@ Admiral - thanks for the lovely war with Inca! :rolleyes:

although I may not have time to play. I'll let you know tomorrow afternoon if I'll be able to finish or not. May have too much homework. :(

Tone

Mar 14, 2005, 03:34 PM

IP: totally off topic but haven't you changes your avatar or is my memory failing me?

BTW you can't blame Admiral for this war! They declared. Still it does make it interesting.

Speaking as a teacher, would it cut much ice if I said that homework is not as important as civ? No? I thought not but it's worth a try! :mischief:

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 14, 2005, 03:52 PM

OT - IP is following in Tomoyo's avatar changing footsteps. :lol:

On spears: in a true AW game where you must declare on the turn you meet a civ, you need the spears

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 14, 2005, 04:13 PM

OT - IP is following in Tomoyo's avatar changing footsteps.

I'm trying to find which I like best (in case you haven't noticed, they've all been Metal Gears, from the Metal Gear Solid series--I've had all three now). :D

BTW you can't blame Admiral for this war! They declared. Still it does make it interesting.

Yeah, but they...uh...sensed his idiocy? AK knows I don't really blame him for the war (I think...). :) Besides, I like wars--keeps things entertaining.

On spears: in a true AW game where you must declare on the turn you meet a civ, you need the spears

I'm not saying we should completely stop building spears, I just think Swords are a better use of shields. In small towns, spears can be built much quicker than swords, so they are more helpful there.

Tone

Mar 14, 2005, 04:17 PM

I like wars--keeps things entertaining.
Now you're talking my language!

Tomoyo

Mar 14, 2005, 05:18 PM

Besides, there's "AW" in the title. We do need some war. :D

Unlike IP, I have no intentions of keeping one avatar, even though I really like the one I'm using now. (23:18 GMT, Monday March 14, Commonwealth Day in Canada, Canberra day in Australia.)

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 14, 2005, 09:44 PM

More on spears and AW. They get that bonus against horses which is nice when you don't know HBR. sensed his idiocyof course they did. that's why I shouldn't be allowed to play until the MA. :lol:

Tone

Mar 15, 2005, 12:41 AM

More on spears and AW. They get that bonus against horses which is nice when you don't know HBR.
Now that's a new one on me. How much of a bonus is it and where did you find this out? The combat calculator I have doesn't take this into account.

MeteorPunch

Mar 15, 2005, 01:13 AM

Spears don't have a bonus vs horses. This was discussed a few weeks ago here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=113543

A lot of people assumed they did because they did in Civ 2.

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 15, 2005, 04:13 PM

Sorry, but I'm not going to be able to play today or tomorrow--homework which I can't not do, Tone. :p Tomoyo can take my turn, unless you want to wait until Thursday afternoon for me to play. ;)

MeteorPunch

Mar 15, 2005, 05:26 PM

I guess Tomoyo would be next...Do you want to go ahead with the next 10?

Tomoyo

Mar 15, 2005, 05:38 PM

Sure. Got it.

Tomoyo

Mar 15, 2005, 07:01 PM

750BC (0): Reduce lux to 0%. Raise science to 70%. To my delight, the preferences are perfectly set.

Split the workers. Send very small swordsmen stacks at Incan minor cities.

730BC (1): Try to dodge Inca attacks and hope that there isn't a CS somewhere anywhere.

IT: Beijing: Swordsman --> Settler

710BC (2): Ack! An Incan horseman! Those things are tricky.

WTF? I approached some pink cities thinking they were Incan, but they're Iroquois?

IT: Chengdu: Spearman --> Swordsman
Hangchow: Barracks --> Swordsman

690BC (3): Capture Vilcabamba.

IT: Inca want to talk but we're deaf-mute.

Literature --> Horseback Riding

Nanking: Chariot --> Worker

670BC (4): Try to dodge the Incan peoples in the fog.

IT: Beijing: Settler --> Swordsman
Tientsin: Barracks --> Chariot

650BC (5): Move settler to its haven.

Damascus: Worker --> Worker
Tatung: Barracks --> Swordsman

630BC (6): I let an Incan warrior go behind our lines so I need to use a Chariot to attack. We win, though.

Macao founded. There's an Incan horseman in attack range... :cry:

Disconnect an Incan gem.

IT: Wad'ya know, the horseman loses.

610Bc (7): Lose a swordsman attacking an Incan city. Looks like I'll need a lot of swords for it.

IT: HBR --> Math

630BC (8): Thanks to this wonderful coloring system, I can't tell whether a semi-concealed city is Incan or Iro. :rolleyes:

IT: Beijing: Swordsman --> Swordsman
Nanjing: Worker --> Horseman
Xinjian: Swordsman --> Swordsman

590BC (9): Nothing must've happened since I forgot about this turn.

570BC (10): ...

Notes: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Metepr_ak_570_BC.SAV)
- Chariot is to upgrade. Turn down science if you need to.
- Swordsman pair is not really there to attack, but you can if you want to. I would have.
- Have fun dancing in the pockets of Incan horsemen.

MeteorPunch

Mar 15, 2005, 09:52 PM

630BC (8): Thanks to this wonderful coloring system, I can't tell whether a semi-co

Yeah, that could be a problem, sorry :( .

One of our northern cities is prebuilding tGL, good. I think we should put another one building/prebuilding for SoZ. Those ancient Cavs would be very helpful. Other cities building settlers/workers/Swordsmen/Horses.

I think Tone is up next.

Tone

Mar 16, 2005, 12:51 AM

Thanks for the hint to find the save. I need some tips on this at some point as I sometimes have problems just posting a screenshot! :blush:

I'll be able to play this evening when I get home from work and have time to read your post properly and look at the save. At the moment I've just got up, my eyes are still trying to function and the game of Hunt The Blue Letters has not helped the process one bit! :crazyeye:

Tone

Mar 16, 2005, 12:21 PM

turn 0 (570)
press enter

IBT
Guang:sword>sword
Portugal are building the HGardens

turn 1 (550)
Eastern swords head for Vitcos and the gems. upgrade chariot. No idea where the settler was heading but he'll claim the wfp with gold mountains if the borders expand. I've no idea about which towns are Incan and which are Iroquois either so I move the sword in Vilcabamba onto a hill to get a better view! I still can't tell for certain but I think that the town ENE of Vilca is Iroquios. Attack Ollan...:vet loses 1 hp but the elite is killed! :mad:

turn 2 (530)
withdraw wounded sword. Build Anyang (worker)

IBT
Three Incan warriors approach our new town.
Maths>Polytheism (What are our research plans? Have we got any? I thought we could go for Monarchy. Sorry if it has been discussed and I've somehow missed it.)

turn 3 (510)
zzz

IBT
Beijing:sword>horse; Hangchow:sword>horse.

turn 4 (490)
attack vitcos. First sword relines spear but loses-it is the only defender though. Second sword still manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory though and the defender is promoted. Thankfully the third one wins and we take the town. Now need to hope that our sword defending Anyang can hold out against three warriors until the horse gets there.

IBT
The first warrior defeats the sword and we lose Anyang!!!
Tsingtao:rax>horse.

turn 5 (470)
horse kills one of the warriors, swords attack spear with settler: first one loses but the second wins and gets a couple of slaves.

turn 6 (450)
horse kills another warrior and is promoted to elite. Incan horse is sniffing around our new slaves but it can't catch them in the jungle.

IBT
Beijing:horse>horse; Chengdu:sword>sword; Macao:worker>worker;

turn 7 (430)
horse kills final warrior and sword looks to confront the Incan horse if it can

IBT
Damascus: worker>worker. Arab horse will probably attack this town next turn and our second sword cannot get there until next turn!

turn 8 (410)
zzz

IBT
The horse doesn't attack and is now off the mountains so we get a go at it now.
Poly>Monarchy

turn 9 (390)
elite horse kills the Incan horse. 3 swords advance into Huamanga ready to strike next turn.

IBT
Incan horse hits our horse from the fog and wins and a Ch-scout advances on undefended Mecca.
Beijing:horse>settler; Xinjian: sword>horse.

turn 10 (370)
Kill the horse but I cannot get anything to Mecca or intercept the scout. We have some horses for mobile defence now but it's too late in this case. Swords take the useless town of Huamanga-probably has coal or rubber which will be useful in another 1500 years!

Notes:
Sorry but we've lost Mecca. We could gift it to another civ, abandon it if you want or (hopefull) recapture it with the sword at the gates. I would take the last option but it's your turn!

I was trying to get some horses for a more mobile counter-attack/defense force but it didn't arrive soon enough! We have a massive front line and are facing a very mobile enemy.

SoZ in 8 turns if we want to switch the build in Shanghai. Do we want to do this?

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84768&stc=1)

MeteorPunch

Mar 16, 2005, 07:44 PM

Got it. Are you sure there's only one defender in Mecca?

Secondly: everyone, Having the SoZ now is very temptingI think this could turn the tide vs the inca and we could have the whole western part of the pangaea. This will give us some more cities for producing Riders :p .

Tomoyo

Mar 16, 2005, 07:50 PM

This is Monarch, right? With enough cities, we can keep up in research without the GL. ToZ sounds good now.

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 16, 2005, 08:00 PM

I won't be able to go tomorrow either. I can go Friday, though, if it's my turn then.

I like the idea of the SoZ. Unless we can use Shanghai to get tGL earlier then where it is being built now...

MeteorPunch

Mar 16, 2005, 08:12 PM

Thanks for keeping us informed, Iroquois. Well, I'm off to play.

MeteorPunch

Mar 16, 2005, 09:20 PM

370 Switch Shanghai to SoZ. press enter.Incan Chasqui scout takes Mecca
350 Swordsman redlines, but takes Mecca back.
330 -
310 Swords leave Vilcabamba to try to take Incan Easternmost city: Ollantaytambo. (this eventually fails miserably - 3 swords lost)
-tGL Switch is made (more later)
290 Lose a horseman to a horseman hiding in the fog.
270 Sword dies to archer. Sword 2 kills archer.
250 Sword loses attacking Ollantaytambo.
230 4 Incans headed towards Huamanga. 3 archers,1 horse. Our swords kill 2 archers
210 We lose a sword and a horse to their remaining horse and archer :mad: . An a positive note, we have SoZ! Sword kills archer, becomes elite. Horse kills horse, becomes elite.
190 Ghandi wants Literature. I leave. We build 4 Swords this turn.
170 -

Big strategy shift (shoot me if I'm wrong...). Our newly aquired cities are producing squat. On this note I changed our huge producing capitol to tGL.
1. we are still way behind in tech.
2. new cities aren't producing.
3. We changed production to SoZ in our tGL prebuild city.
4. If we can get it, it will be worth it.

Pop rushing is amazing... a barrack costs us 20 shields. A size 2 city producing 1 shield which after 1 turn, still has 19 turns/shields to go can poprush a barrack in one turn!! I've also started poprushing swordsmen from cities. I never knew this until this game, so I had to share.

Note for the next player: there is a horseman in forrest North of Machu Picchu. If he survives, have him pillage the incan horse resource in Machu Picchu.

Our unconcerted attack force:

MeteorPunch

Mar 16, 2005, 10:07 PM

Here's the save:

Tone

Mar 17, 2005, 01:43 AM

Do we really need The Great Library? We are behind but we have the capacity for four turn research on a number of techs and how many swords/horses could we build instead. It's too late now unless you agree to switch it to something else (and I could be in a minority here just like I was with the spears) but I don't value the GL as much as others. I prefer to let one of my neighbours build it and then capture it (in a game like this) with the 13 military units that I've built with those 400 shields

I found in my last turn set that I wasn't sure what our long term strategy was. Have we got one? Do we care? Perhaps people could give their views on the following:

We have Monarchy in 2 turns. Are we going to revolt in the middle of a war? Are we going to revolt at all? My opinion is that we have enough military to hold until we get out of anarchy so I would vote for a revolution straight away. We then lose the despotism penalty and we get TGL more quickly. This will partially address the corruption issue MP as more cities will become productive with the reduced corruption and waste.

What do we reasearch next? If we are confident of getting TGL before someone else then we could switch it off completely. However we are not the only civ that knows it and the Portugeuse are also building it. Did we start first? If we lose out in the race what do we switch to? Personally I would still go for construction as we could switch to the GW if someone else gets TGL first and we could get some of our cities to expand beyond size 6. BTW are we heading for Chivalry asap?

Pop-rushing: Be careful with it MP as every person whipped creates another unhappy person for 20 turns and these can build up to make a city riot. If we revolt to Monarchy then we won't be able to pop rush anymore though so maybe this is not an issue. This might mean that we don't want barracks in cities outside the core from now on. They could just build regulars that can be used primarily as MPs-we get more units and don't pay the barracks maintenance costs.

Minor issues: There is a little bit of mm that could be done to improve food in outlying cities and use of specialists. Less minor: does Beijing need the cows anymore if it is not growing? I know that it will lose 1 shield/turn but get a mine working and this will change (especially in Monarchy) Give it to Xinjian and it will start to grow and produce a horse every six turns instead of every eight turns (or even some more settlers!) I think that it's worth it but if you disagree at least get the mine up and running as this will increase production in the capital-with or without the cows.

MeteorPunch

Mar 17, 2005, 02:19 AM

Lot's of good points, I'll share my opinions.

Do we really need The Great Library? We are behind but we have the capacity for four turn research on a number of techs and how many swords/horses could we build instead. It's too late now unless you agree to switch it to something else (and I could be in a minority here just like I was with the spears) but I don't value the GL as much as others. I prefer to let one of my neighbours build it and then capture it (in a game like this) with the 13 military units that I've built with those 400 shields.

Do we *need* tGL, no. But will it be a massive help - yes. Almost all of our cities are building military. we have no libraries. If you check Portugal's tech, they had 5-6 tech lead on us + whatever branches from those techs. With tGL we can focus 100% wealth + buying more units on Monarchy.

I found in my last turn set that I wasn't sure what our long term strategy was. Have we got one? Do we care? Perhaps people could give their views on the following:

We have Monarchy in 2 turns. Are we going to revolt in the middle of a war? Are we going to revolt at all? My opinion is that we have enough military to hold until we get out of anarchy so I would vote for a revolution straight away. We then lose the despotism penalty and we get TGL more quickly. This will partially address the corruption issue MP as more cities will become productive with the reduced corruption and waste.

You're reasoning seems logical that we should revolt. Remember if we are the first to discover, we can do a double anarchy if necessary :cool: .

What do we reasearch next? If we are confident of getting TGL before someone else then we could switch it off completely. However we are not the only civ that knows it and the Portugeuse are also building it. Did we start first? If we lose out in the race what do we switch to? Personally I would still go for construction as we could switch to the GW if someone else gets TGL first and we could get some of our cities to expand beyond size 6. BTW are we heading for Chivalry asap?

If we actually get tGL (I hope). We can go to research 0%.

Minor issues: There is a little bit of mm that could be done to improve food in outlying cities and use of specialists. Less minor: does Beijing need the cows anymore if it is not growing? I know that it will lose 1 shield/turn but get a mine working and this will change (especially in Monarchy) Give it to Xinjian and it will start to grow and produce a horse every six turns instead of every eight turns (or even some more settlers!) I think that it's worth it but if you disagree at least get the mine up and running as this will increase production in the capital-with or without the cows.

I rather not lose the 2 shield cow unless it still creates the same completion time (ie: 13 turns to complete remains 13 turns). Otherwise that would be a good idea to make a second settler factory.

Other things:

- our workers are plentiful. They finish tasks fast + we are getting incan slaves. I'm trying to get them to build roads south to Incaland so we can conquer them faster.

- general strategy is Riders -> Cavalry -> Conquest victory :D

MeteorPunch

Mar 17, 2005, 11:12 AM

just thought of something...make sure the SoZ city has a barracks in it! :blush:

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 17, 2005, 12:56 PM

got it, off to see the save

Tone

Mar 17, 2005, 04:44 PM

Thanks MP for sharing your views. It's your game and I'm certainly not trying to hijack it. I just find discussion useful to guide me when playing my turns. I tried to post again from work but no luck-the net nanny gets in the way :( I have a few more assorted points/questions but please note that they are made without access to the save so be kind if they are not 100% accurate :mischief: :

Until we get tGL (or someone else gets it) we reasearch as normal, right? I suggest construction for the GW and aquaducts in our core.

We will not be the first to get Monarchy. IIRC Portugal have it.

SoZ city already has a barracks (again IIRC)

On our capital's cow tile: If we are not to reassign this citizen then we need to get the most out of the food (currently one surplace-two surplace in Monarchy) by developing the hills around the capital. This would really cut down the number of turns needed for builds. Yet again if my memory is correct we can work two more hills from the capital which in Monarchy would be 18 shields from the six tiles to maximise production. Evem one more hill would give a sword/horse every two turns and with chivalry 18 shields is a rider every four. Get an aquaduct and it's even more but all of this depends upon getting those hills developed so can we make that a priority if we have plenty of workers?

Good point about getting roads to our enemies BTW. All roads lead to Shanghai?

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 17, 2005, 05:00 PM

I'm going to look at the save then post for discussion. I like the free for alls...

MeteorPunch

Mar 17, 2005, 06:24 PM

Until we get tGL (or someone else gets it) we reasearch as normal, right? I suggest construction for the GW and aquaducts in our core.

That's a good idea. Here's the situation as far as us possibly not getting tGL: All the civs are building wonders and when one gets built, they all change production and one of them might build it. tGL is 400 shields though so that works out in our favour.

On our capital's cow tile: If we are not to reassign this citizen then we need to get the most out of the food (currently one surplace-two surplace in Monarchy) by developing the hills around the capital. This would really cut down the number of turns needed for builds. Yet again if my memory is correct we can work two more hills from the capital which in Monarchy would be 18 shields from the six tiles to maximise production. Evem one more hill would give a sword/horse every two turns and with chivalry 18 shields is a rider every four. Get an aquaduct and it's even more but all of this depends upon getting those hills developed so can we make that a priority if we have plenty of workers?

There is a lone worker up there now. Hopefully he'll get some hills done in time for monarchy, but I'm not sure at this point (I'm too lazy to look at the save right now).

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 18, 2005, 04:49 PM

Sorry for the delay. The new dominance order has been established in the feline branch of the AK household. RL's got me pressed for time so I just ran with it.

Recon: Wake slave at Mecca. Need roads, not fields. Change sword builds to horses. Stop the forest chops at Shanghai. MM it. It is now doing 10spt, a 3 turn sword/horse pump. Need to get the luxes hooked up before we revolt. Set Damascus and Vila. to workers. Henry got squatters wandering around.

150: pillage Incan horses per directive. Drop science to 40% (Monarchy in 2)

130: drop science to 10% (Monarchy in 2)

110: buiild wines colony with a slave

IT: Monarchy to Construction

70BC - 10BC: Holding off Incan counterattacks. Raze M.P. in 10BC.

IT: Hiawatha finishes pyramids. Hate these colors.

10AD: drop science to 20%

Hiawatha is now building the Glib in Mauch Chunk.

30AD: zip

50AD: turn off science.

Hiawatha and Henry are both building the Glib. Strongly suggest not revolting until we finish it. SoD gathering for assault on Cuzco. Built a couple of spears for cheap MPs. Build horses instead of swords. Need to resettle the center before Henry's settlers get there. Need a maginot line to control Henry's wandering fools. Sorry no time for a screenie tonight.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Meteor_ak_50_AD.SAV

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 18, 2005, 05:10 PM

Looks pretty good, AK.

I guess it's my turn now. I can play tomorrow.

There's an Iroquois settler wandering around by our wine colony. I suggest building (and by that I mean rushing) a temple or barracks to make sure they don't steal it from us.

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 19, 2005, 04:20 PM

Pre-turn – Everything looks good.

IBT – Construction->Currency due in 7 @ 50%, +1gpt.

70 (1) – Shanghai horse->horse. Chengdu sword->horse. Hangchow horse->settler.
There’s now 1 AC, 3 Horses, and 3 Swords on the mountain SW of Cuzco. Should be able to capture it in 2 turns.

90 (2) – Not much, just moving troops. Change Damascus from worker to settler to fill in the area quicker. Move troops to the hill SW of Cuzco and spot a chasqui scout to the S.

IBT – the chasqui scout moves through Cuzco, but doesn’t fortify in there (not exactly the smartest sharpest stick in the jungle, that Pachacuti…).

110 (3) – Nanjing horse->settler.

Battle for Cuzco: Elite AC wins, losing 1 hp. Elite horse retreats, doing 1 hp to reg spear. Vet horse dies redlining another spear. Another vet horse takes 2 damage killing an unfortified spear. Just that 2/3 spear left. Vet sword dies redlining but promoting the spear. Elite sword kills it, taking no damage, but another spear is showing. Last vet sword attacks, and kills it, capturing Cuzco! We get the Oracle, the Hanging Gardens, a slave, and 7 resistors…

Increase science to 100%, currency now due in 3, -14 gpt.

IBT – Incan archer appears from the south of Cuzco.

130 (4) – Shanghai horse->horse. Tsingtao horse->horse. Switch Vitcos from settler to horse, since it’s size two and can’t grow. Move science down to 90%, still in 2, -11gpt.
Kill chasqui scout and archer in the south near Cuzco, and find the borders of another Incan city (at least I think so).

150 (5) – Move troops towards Ollantaytambo.

IBT – Currency->Philosophy (we might as well have one more thing we can switch to, in case someone beats us to tGL. Map making is also an option, but we really don’t need galleys, or the Great Lighthouse). The Inca and Indians are building tGL.

170 (6) – Guangzhou sword->horse. Xinjian horse->settler.
Drop science to 30%, Philo due in 4 turns @ +23 gpt.
Troops are in position to attack Ollantaytambo next turn (1 AC, 2 Horses, and a sword). Another of our swords find Tiwanaku, which has silks. Move an AC and two horses there.
Rush settler in Damascus.

190 (7) – Shanghai horse->horse. Damascus settler->horse. Hangchow settler->horse. Tientsin spear->worker.

Attack on Ollantaytambo: Elite AC attacks spear, archer attacks but misses, and we lose a total of 1hp. Vet horse attacks and is redlined, but wins and promotes. Just an archer showing now. Attack with Elite sword, get no leader, but take no damage, and capture the city, along with 6 gold and 5 resistors (that’s everyone)

IBT – Portuguese settle some horses between Cuzco and Huamanga. Suggest we kill them next…

210 (8) – Move troops towards Tiwanaku.

IBT – Archer from Tiwanaku attacks a horse and retreats it, but leaves itself wide open (and that’s one less defender we have to worry about). Inca are building the Great Library (again…).

230 (9) – Kill the archer, but see another city to the south.

Attack on Tiwanaku: Vet AC loses 3 hp. Elite horse retreats, doing just 1 damage. Vet horse dies, redlining a spear. Elite sword takes 3 damage killing an unfortified spear. And we’re out of units…

Found Chinan by the wines, claiming them both for us, and blocking Iroquois slightly.

250 (10) – Shanghai horse->horse. Discover another Incan city, Vilcas. Rush a spear in Cuzco.

There are more reinforcements coming to help with the attack on Tiwanaku. The rest can be sent towards either Vilcas, or that other Incan city SW of Tiwanaku. That archer SE of Tiwanaku will probably attack and kill one of the units in the stack next turn, so you may want to retreat all of them.
Vilcas is only size 5, so it should be easier to capture.
There is a settler in Nanjing and 3 more being built in other cities (1 due next turn).
The Great Library is due in 3, but in the unlikely chance that someone beats us to it, we can either switch to the Great Wall, Temple of Artemis (this would help a LOT with our lack of culture), or Mausoleum of Mausollos (Philo is due next turn).
I vote for attacking the Portuguese next. :mad:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/China_250.JPG

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 19, 2005, 04:27 PM

Nice job IP. I warned you to maginot the Port. choke point. :) After the Glib pops, the next player should play with the MM and see how many cities we can get to 10spt. Would really help the military pump.

MeteorPunch

Mar 19, 2005, 04:28 PM

IBT – Portuguese settle some horses between Cuzco and Huamanga. Suggest we kill them next…

Bad move on their part settling in *our* territory like that :nono: . Yeah, if anyone beats us to tGL we should go with ToA.

Just thought of something, probably minor. The Portuguese were the ones way up on us in tech and if this is still the case (1 tech leader, not 2) then tGL is not as effective...but I still think it's what we need most.

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 19, 2005, 04:32 PM

I warned you to maginot the Port. choke point. :)

Do you realize how many settlers were ALREADY "in" our borders (got past the line)? There's still a few in there somewhere, I believe.

Where exactly are the Portuguese coming from, anyway? Those cities just South of Evora (Port. city on horses) are Incan (their color is close to Portuguese :mad:). I'm thinking the Portuguese may be too far away to attack next. Maybe we should get an embassy with them?

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 19, 2005, 04:42 PM

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 19, 2005, 04:49 PM

I knew there were at least 3 set of henry's fools wandering. I thought Coimbra was at the bottom of a teardrop landmass. I think their core is north of Coimbra. Think we need to get a token boat in the water and go for circumnavigation of our landmass (go north first)

Hmm...you're probably right. Now that I think of it, a Portuguese galley did come from up there (it's up near Tsingtao, now). I'm pretty sure it's just exploring, but we should keep an eye on it, anyway.

I though Coimbra was just on a little tip, and the only city up there...

Well, now the Portuguese are definitely next on the list. :ar15:

Tone

Mar 22, 2005, 12:46 AM

Is it Tomoyo next up? I'm playing in a couple of games and losing track of when it's my turn. I think it must be due to my age ;)

MeteorPunch

Mar 22, 2005, 02:48 AM

ROSTER:
1 MeteorPunch
2 Admiral Kutzov
3 IroquoisPlisken
4 Tomoyo
5 Tone

Tomoyo!!! ...I was thinking Iroquois was, but he just went. I believe you're supposed to say got it within 24 hrs, so yes, Tone you're up.

Tone

Mar 22, 2005, 06:06 AM

I cannot play until tomorrow. I've another two games where my turn has come up and I'm going out tonight! If you want to step in Tomoyo that's fine by me-you may not have realised that it was your turn :) I'll play Wednesday afternoon/evening if I hear nothing more, MP.

MeteorPunch

Mar 22, 2005, 06:24 AM

sounds good. If Tomoyo realizes he's up, then he can go, otherwise, we'll wait for you, Tone.

Tomoyo

Mar 22, 2005, 06:35 AM

Ah! I was up? :blush:

I'll go...

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 22, 2005, 03:41 PM

@ tomoyo - enjoying your ever-changing avatars. Where are you drawing them from? How 'bout a little background on Sakura for the old people?

Tomoyo

Mar 22, 2005, 05:15 PM

Actually, Tone can go. I am having some technical difficulty that doesn't like saves from other computers, apparantly. Some of my own saves work, though. :(

@AK:

Name: Sakura Kinomoto
Birthday: April 1
Blood type: A
Favorite class: P.E., music
Least favorite class: Math
School club: Cheerleading club
Favorite color: Pink, white
Favorite flower: Cherry blossom
Favorite food: Omelet with fried rice, noodles
Least favorite food: Konnyaku
Best dish: Pancake
Most wanted: A new schoolbag

From the popular anime show Card Captor Sakura (http://www.tcp.com/doi/sakura/).

Some pictures:

http://www.sakura.prettysenshi.com/multi/gallery/sakura52.jpg

http://www.sakura.prettysenshi.com/multi/gallery/sakura44.jpg

http://www.sakura.prettysenshi.com/multi/gallery/sakura07.jpg

Sorry for the threadjack.

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 22, 2005, 05:19 PM

@tomoyo - knowledge is power. :cool:

Tomoyo

Mar 22, 2005, 05:22 PM

@tomoyo - knowledge is power. :cool:Okay, now I'm confused. :confused:

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 22, 2005, 05:33 PM

I was trying to say thanks for the info on your avatar.

MeteorPunch

Mar 23, 2005, 05:57 AM

I played the first Sakura Wars (Taisen) when it came out on Sega Saturn. I played through the first 2 chapters using an online translator guide. It was a combination Strategy/Dating Sim :lol: . That was a long time ago...

Tomoyo

Mar 23, 2005, 06:29 AM

Hehe... Sakura Wars got turned into an anime show... with old stories, but modern art. :crazyeye:

MeteorPunch

Mar 24, 2005, 08:16 AM

I'm gonna go ahead and play this next one. Tomoyo's having computer problems and Tone partied too hard :D .

Tone

Mar 24, 2005, 08:31 AM

No problem!

I'd just logged on to get the save but I've got a massive set of turns to play for the SGOTM that I can play instead Last time around it took a couple of hours just pop-rushing and micro-managing turn zero so I'll attend to that game now.

I'll be ready for the next round as I've now got two weeks off :dance:

MeteorPunch

Mar 24, 2005, 09:17 AM

@Tone: Glad this works for both of us!

On my last turn the Inca are finally gone! (but we're at war with the Portuguese :D )

250 (enter) We had some troops camped on Portuguese land. They asked us to move, and it was War.
Ollantaytambo flips to Inca. :mad:
260 Ancient cavalry Destroys Evotora (sp?)(Portuguese)
2 Ancient Cavs destroy 2 spears retaking Ollantayambo.
270 We take Incan capitol, Tiwanaku! woot!
The Great Library Completes in Beijing, we enter GA!
280 Kaifeng founded
Vilcas (Inca) captured.
290 We learn remaining Ancient techs+Monotheism+Feudalism from GL
Ollantayambo flips again! taking 2 Ancient Cavs...argh! :mad:
Set Science to Zero to save up for upgrading Horses. Chivalry will take 11 turns in GA which is not worth it.
Take Coimbra (Portuguese). I abandon and send a settler that way.
300 Ningpo founded
Ollantayambo capture (again...)
Payoting founded
310 Corihuayrachina (Inca) captured...they have another city to the west.
320 Tiwanaku flips!!! :mad: This is so frustrating...(I'm about to raze every city). We had 4 full strength Veteran/Elite Swordsmen in there...I've lost at least 12 good units to flips during these turns.
Abandon Vilcas
Abandon Ollantayambo
330 Annahualas (Inca) capture
340
350 Leira (Portuguese) captured/abandoned.
Yangchow founded.
Finally! Ancient Cav kills Tiwanaku Spearmen and eliminates the Inca and spawn a MGL! :smoke:

The empire is a mess! This is the worst GA I can remember, there is so much corruption that Mecca is only producing 1 useable shield! I couln't switch to Monarchy as Anarchy+GA is a big :nono: , but it seems it almost would've been worth it.

Everyone consider: Can the MGL rush a palace? If so, Use it to build a more central palace. This would help our corruption *so* much. Other MGL options: Ancient Cav Army, or wait (any time now) Rider Army! I know that at least 1 other civ has Chivalry (they are building Knights Templar).

Our mess of an empire:

MeteorPunch

Mar 24, 2005, 09:18 AM

here's the save:

Tone

Mar 24, 2005, 11:27 AM

I've just finished turn zero of my set of turns for SGOTM and you have played a whole turn set :lol:

We can definitely rush the FP with a MGL but I'm not sure about a palace. An easy way to check is to switch the build in a local town to a palace and see what icons are available for the leader. (I'm playing Vanilla at the moment so I can't check the save.) If rushing the palace elsewhere is not an option, then rushing the FP will still be useful in lowering corruption. (We haven't built it already, have we?)

Tomoyo

Mar 24, 2005, 12:55 PM

I've just finished turn zero of my set of turns for SGOTM and you have played a whole turn set :lol: I'm up in my SGOTM team, too, and turn zero is taking forever, and the other turns show no signs of being shorter. :(

MeteorPunch

Mar 24, 2005, 12:59 PM

If we can rush a FP, then we can rush a Palace, and a Palace would be much better than an army with our very high corruption. The GA won't end for the next players turn, but the person after them (Monarchy would be better for our warring ways,I think).

Tone

Mar 24, 2005, 12:59 PM

I'm up in my SGOTM team, too, and turn zero is taking forever, and the other turns show no signs of being shorter. :(
No and the graphs show that every culture build counts! The pressure is on to make the most of every turn and with so many cities that can take such a long time.

Tone

Mar 24, 2005, 01:08 PM

@MP: I say go for it then. Where do you suggest?

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 24, 2005, 01:53 PM

What about in Cuzco? It looks like it could be a pretty productive city. It is near enemy territory, though, so it would be in danger of being captured.

Tomoyo

Mar 24, 2005, 01:56 PM

Cuzco looks good. It is near the front, but that also means that troops from it reach the front earlier.

OT: IP, are you using a German version of civ? Just asking...

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 24, 2005, 01:59 PM

OT: IP, are you using a German version of civ? Just asking...

No...American. *points beneath avatar...* Why? :confused: The terrain is sn00py's with a lot of Pounder's mods if that's what you meant.

Tomoyo

Mar 24, 2005, 02:00 PM

Damn. :wallbash:

I had a theory that the reason some random saves were crashing my C3C was that the person before me used a German version. It has held true for two of the three cases (CarlosMM and Mahler both use German versions, IIRC), but now you just shot my theory down. :(

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 24, 2005, 02:04 PM

Um...sorry? Are you saying you can't open any of my saves? or just some of them? I have no idea why it would be happening.

Tomoyo

Mar 24, 2005, 02:07 PM

Just some of them. Actually, just one. The last one.

MeteorPunch

Mar 24, 2005, 02:07 PM

(The new Indian city of Indus is in the best loctation wise. :wallbash: ) ...a central location that helps all cities is important and I would be all for Cuzco, but then our main core will be suffering(These 6 or so are our *only* productive cities).

Options:
- Start a war with India to build our palace in a good location (Indus) :lol: . It's a funny thought I don't think I've heard of anyone doing this, but it might be worthwhile.

- Wait to build Palace while the FP builds in the original core.

- Build Palace in Cuzco and feel the pain as our core production drops. rush some settlers to fill in the gaps around Cuzco (North and East).

- Move Palace to Chengdu...a little better than Beijing.

- FP only gives a very minor bonus to surrounding cities in Conquests...otherwise I'd rush it instead.

-Any more bright ideas?

Tone

Mar 24, 2005, 02:16 PM

( - FP only gives a very minor bonus to surrounding cities in Conquests...otherwise I'd rush it instead. It's certainly not like Vanilla/PtW where it produces a second core but it is worth building as it lowers corruption overall (By increasing the OCN?) so IMO we should consider it as a build in a productive city as it will be well worth the 200 shields invested. In the short term though I think moving the palace is the best idea but am unsure as to where yet. I'd need to look at the saves before I comment further on the location.

edit: There is no benefit in building the FP in the original core IMO. If we are moving the palace, we must be prepared to lose our original core.

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 26, 2005, 09:50 PM

Am I up or is Tone? Don't move the palace. Pick a good city for FP or use the MGL for an army.

MeteorPunch

Mar 26, 2005, 10:37 PM

Am I up or is Tone? Don't move the palace. Pick a good city for FP or use the MGL for an army.

AK, you are up. If we/you make an army, wait a little bit because Riders are just around the corner.

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 26, 2005, 10:42 PM

got it. probably tomorrow night

Tone

Mar 27, 2005, 12:16 AM

Don't move the palace. Pick a good city for FP or use the MGL for an army. Does it matter where the FP goes in C3C?

MeteorPunch

Mar 27, 2005, 12:19 AM

Does it matter where the FP goes in C3C?

Generally a city with excellent potential that is outside of the Palace's ring.

plarq

Mar 27, 2005, 12:23 AM

FP decrease corruption significantly,but if you build it far away from Palace,the surrounding cities will benefit little from it,except the FP city itself,so build it in mildly corrupted(Ring 2nd) cities.

Tone

Mar 27, 2005, 02:42 AM

Thanks. I've just re-read Alexman's article on corruption and waste and boy did I need to! I think that I just got used to handbuilding the FP in the core early in the game as the effect on corruption is significant globally and kept any MGLs for armies. I then forgot why I had come to that conclusion and my understanding of the effects of the FP became limited due to always using this strat.

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 28, 2005, 06:42 PM

I've got water issues in the basement, please skip me

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 28, 2005, 07:03 PM

ROSTER:
1 MeteorPunch - went last
2 Admiral Kutzov - skipped
3 IroquoisPlisken - UP, but can't play until Wednesday
4 Tomoyo - could be up
5 Tone - ditto

I guess that means I'm up. Although I can't play tonight or tomorrow either, probably. Tomoyo or Tone can go since they both skipped their last turns, I believe.

MeteorPunch

Mar 29, 2005, 05:23 PM

I'm thinking we should just compromise with the leader building a FP in Cuzco.

MeteorPunch

Mar 30, 2005, 01:48 AM

I hope everyone is still interested in this game. We will soon have some Riders and will squish this small land. I know that when the game seems easy, it is sometimes less fun to play. There was a lot of discussion early on that was necessary for planning and war, but now that it seems the game is in the bag that most could win easily now. I thought this varient would be difficult if several civs decided to declare on us (AK could make that happen :mischief: ), with no way to escape, but picking them off one by one is no different than a standard Monarch game.

I'm just posting this because I'm dissapointed in the pace lately after the fast start. The combination of it getting too easy and that some of you are in SGotM6 explains much of it (loooonggg turns ;) ).

Tone

Mar 30, 2005, 01:56 AM

I'm still here for when it's my turn :) IP can play today so I'll just hold on. (I'm trying a HoF attempt at the moment)

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 30, 2005, 02:53 PM

I'm just posting this because I'm dissapointed in the pace lately after the fast start. The combination of it getting too easy and that some of you are in SGotM6 explains much of it (loooonggg turns ).

And homework explains the rest. ;) Don't worry, I'm sure everyone is still interested in this, it's just with only 5 people who are all busy, it seems like we are losing interest.

I'll play and post the turns in a few hours.

UPDATE: I've played 5 turns. I'll play the other 5 after I finish my homework...

Someone signs a MA with Portugal against us...try and guess who!

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 30, 2005, 04:42 PM

still here, had RL issues with water in Igor's room. If you want me to go I can tomorrow.

Tomoyo

Mar 30, 2005, 04:43 PM

I'm still interested, I'm just kinda tired... :sleep:

MeteorPunch

Mar 30, 2005, 04:58 PM

Someone signs a MA with Portugal against us...try and guess who!

haha, great! ummm...Ghandi?

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 30, 2005, 05:46 PM

Yep, you guessed right, MP! And for that, you win...my log? :p

Pre-turn – Raise lux to 100%, Chivalry due in 6 turns @ -18 gpt. There is a worker that will be captured or killed by Portugal next turn, but there’s nothing I can do about him. I will rush the FP in Cuzco next turn.

IBT – As expected, the worker is captured (I don’t believe it was killed, though). We learn Chivalry from the Iroquois and Portuguese…ahem, never mind with the research, then…start on Engineering, but at 0%.

360 (1) – Cuzco walls->FP and rush it. A LOT of cities are building Riders. Since upgrading our horsemen will take way too much money (120 per horse), I leave most.

IBT – Yes! We learn Engineering from the Iroquois and Portuguese. Start on Invention at 0%.

370 (2) – Cuzco FP->barracks (gpt jumps from +75 gpt to +96 gpt). However, most of our cities (like Mecca) are still making just 1 spt…WHY?!?

Found Canton ->warrior.

IBT – Portuguese archer kills itself after dealing 2 damage to one of our swords.

380 (3) – not much. Although I realize I do not know where the Portuguese are located. North of Coimbra is just a peninsula. All other cities I can see are Indian or Iroquois. I plan on following a Portuguese warrior who will hopefully lead me to at least another city, even if it’s not in the core.

IBT – A Port. Archer appears from the east, and must’ve went through Iroquois land. I guess we have no clear path to them. Maybe we should attack the Iroquois first?

390 (4) – Beijing rider->market. Nanjing worker->court.

Found Nanking ->barracks. Kill the port Warrior (it fortified, so it was no longer of any use…) and an archer. There is another archer coming through Iroquois territory.

IBT – One of our horses is killed by an archer (it was fortified in a jungle, so I figured it would be pretty safe, but I guess not…). The Iroquois found Akwesasne in the middle of OUR territory! :mad:

400 (5) – Cuzco barracks->rider. Not much besides moving units into Iroquois territory to try to make my way across…

IBT – The Portuguese sign an alliance with the Indians against us…I think I’m catching AK’s bad luck…we have a town right next to Indian border with no defender. Strangely, Gandhi sends his units towards the city with 5 horsemen instead of the one with no one in it…whatever! We are booted out of Iroquois territory, but not before seeing two more Portuguese archers headed our way.
Iroquois are building Knight’s Templar.

410 (6) – Shanghai rider->market. Hangchow rider->harbor (change?).

A Rider and a Horse are both redlined destroying Indus (Indian).

An Elite horse kills an Indian warrior outside Andahuaylas and we get Sun Tzu! Rider Army!!! Rename unit India’s Blunder. Rush a settler in Vilcabamba.

420 (7) – Vilcabamba settler->rider. Upgrade 5 Horses to Riders for 600 gold.
An AC has found a Portuguese city. It is close to Chinan.
Move troops towards Ganges (Indian).

IBT – A horse by Ganges is killed by a Portuguese archer. A slave is captured by an Indian warrior. I don’t think they killed it.
Portugal complete Knight’s Templar in Guimaraes.

430 (8) – Guangzhou rider->rider. Tsingtao rider->court (change?). Xinjian rider->rider. Chengdu rider->rider.

Recapture the slave. The full Rider Army is outside Bengal (4.3.4!).

IBT – India attacks a horse and dies, doing 2 damage to it. An Indian MDI (!) in Ganges retreats an Elite horse.

440 (9) – The Rider Army is brought down to 5/13 health but captures Bengal (it was on a hill). I fear the attack on Ganges will fail. One horse took two damage killing a spear, but another retreated. We have just a full health sword, 2 3 health horses, and 2 redlined horses.

IBT – An archer dies and promotes our AC by Emerita (Portuguese city). Our people want to build the Heroic Epic.

450 (10) – Beijing market->rider (may want to switch to HE). Yangchow warrior->worker.
5 Riders are needed to take Dacca, one of which died and another redlined (city was on hill).
Found Anyang ->barracks (change?).
A sword is redlined but a 3/5 horse takes Ganges without a scratch.
The Rider Army is reduced to 2 hp from killing stragglers by Bengal. Send him to Corihuayrachina and poprush a barracks there.

Once the Army heals up, I think we should concentrate our attack on India. They are stronger and closer than Portugal, and since Portugal has not put up much of an attack, we can pretty much leave them alone for now. Maybe send a few units to help the AC capture Guimaeres.
We should keep building Riders. We can support up to 124 units while we only have 67. Build LOTS of Riders. :)
Be careful around Andahuaylas and Bengal area. India has MDIs, so make sure all cities around there have enough defence.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/China_450.JPG

Tomoyo

Mar 30, 2005, 06:09 PM

It looks like I get to play with some Riders. Great. :D

This is a got it.

MeteorPunch

Mar 30, 2005, 06:11 PM

An Elite horse kills an Indian warrior outside Andahuaylas and we get Sun Tzu! Rider Army!!! Rename unit India’s Blunder.

Sounds like a fun set of turns there. I guess we need a couple cities by Cuzco. Attacking India first sounds good because we don't know where Portugal is :p .

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 31, 2005, 03:43 PM

It looks like I get to play with some Riders. Great.

This is a got it.

playing in the second avatar switch - fun
getting the monk's avatar - great fun
making a comment completely in character for Bede - priceless

:rotfl:

Whomp

Mar 31, 2005, 03:57 PM

:lol: Yeah but does he know why Pachelbel carried his canon in his pocket?

Tomoyo

Mar 31, 2005, 03:58 PM

Pre-flight: Ack. Don't like the troops positioning. We have too many troops at home that could be doing some serious :hammer:...

Spearman from Tientsin sent to relieve the Rider in Xinjian.

Kaifeng is defended for no reason whatsoever.

Tientsin doesn't have enough good tiles to work to I switch Chengdu to a temple.

IT: Indians wanna talk. Go away.

Cori...: Barracks --> Worker
Hangchow: Harbor --> Temple
Tatung: Rider --> Temple (This is the whales city)

460AD:

Battle report:

Vet horseman attacks Port reg sword on plains. Redlines and retreats. Heals for 120 gold. :D
Vet horseman attacks Port reg sword on plains. Redlines taking one hp from the sword. Heals for 120 gold.
Elite Ancient Cav attacks Port reg sword on plains. Wins flawlessly.
Elite* horseman attacks Port reg MDI on plains. Wins losing one hp.
Elite* Ancient Cav attacks Port 2/3 sword on plains, wins losing one hp.
4/5 horseman attacks reg ind sword in forest, loses two hp, but produces Qianlong!

We can either get the Heoric Epic or another army. I choose the army.

Upgrade a sword for 30 gold.

IT: We learn Invention.

Canton: Warrior --> Worker
Paoting: Barracks --> Worker

470AD: Upgrade two Elite* horsemen.

Battle report:

Vet rider attacks reg Ind MDI on desert, wins losing one hp.
Elite AC attacks reg Ind Sword on plains, wins flawlessly.
Vet MDI attacks reg spear on plains, loses, spear 2/3.
Vet sword attacks said spear, dies, spear 2/4.

Transfer a Rider from our core to help with said spear. Transfer an AC from south, too.

See a pink MW in our territory. What are they up to?

IT: The Iroquois declare war on us! One spear at Chinan dies to a reg warrior! Then... the MW attacks...

But we make them retreat.

480AD:

Jaipur taken.

Battle report:
!@#$ elite horseman attacks conscript warrior on plains and loses! :mad:
Vet rider kills said warrior.
Vet rider kills warrior guarding a settler flawlessly.
Vet rider kills reg spear in Akwesasne, auto-razing it.
Vet AC kills 2/4 spear on hill, losing three hp.
Vet rider kills 1/3 MW, losing one hp.

IT: Meet so much MDI counterattack in India that I have to call off the attack on Karachi.

490AD:

Battle report:

Vet AC kills reg spearman in Hyderabad, losing two hp. Promotes.
Elite Rider kills red spearman in Hyderabad, losing two hp.
Elite AC kills reg MDI on kills losing three hp.
Rider army kills reg MDI on desert losing one hp.
Elite rider kills reg MDI on desert losing two hp.
Elite horseman kills reg spearman in Chittagong.

IT: Beijing: Rider --> Rider

500AD:

Battle report:

Elite rider attacks reg spear in Karachi, wins losing one hp.
Vet rider attacks reg spear in Karachi, wins losing two hp.
Army attacks Karachi and takes the city from a 2/4 MDI losing 4 hp.
Vet horseman attacks reg archer on plains and wins losing two hp.
Army attacks reg MDI on plains and wins losing three hp.

Upgrade a horseman.

IT:

Shanghai: Market --> Aqueduct

510AD: Make a little judgement call and revolt, just to spice things up. :mischief:

Battle report:

Elite rider attacks reg spear in Bangalore and wins losing three hp.
Elite rider attacks reg spear in Bangalore and wins losing one hp.
Vet swordsman attacks reg spear in Chittagong and wins losing two hp and gaining one taking Chittagong.
Vet rider attacks port reg archer and wins taking one defensive shot and one combat blow, losing two hp. Promotes.
Vet rider attacks port reg archer and wins losing one hp.
Vet rider attacks port reg archer and redlines thanks to a longbow shot and some RNG luck.
Vet rider attacks port reg archer and wins losing one hp. Promotes.
Vet rider attacks port reg longbow and wins losing two hp.
Elite horseman attacks iro spear on grass and wins redlining.
Vet AC attacks iro spear on hills and wins losing one hp. Promotes.

520AD: Upgrade another horseman.

Battle report:

Army attacks reg spearman in Calcutta, wins losing 5 hp.
Elite AC attacks reg MDI in Bangalore and wins losing 3 hp.
Army attacks reg spearman in Calcutta, wins losing 1 hp.
Vet AC attacks reg warrior and wins losing 1 hp.
4/5 rider attacks Crusader and... We get Jin Qiu!

Golden Ball makes an army.

IT: Karachi flips. :(

530AD:

Battle report:

Army attacks reg spearman in Bombay and wins losing 2 hp.
Army attacks reg spearman in Bombay and wins flawlessly, taking the city.
Elite AC attacks longbow and wins losing 2 hp.
Lose a rider to a random pike.
Vet rider retreats vs. a pike in Karachi inflicting no damage.
Elite rider attacks said pike and wins redlining. Karachi has been unflipped.
Elite rider attacks longbow and wins flawlessly.

540AD: Nothing of interest happens.

550AD:

Battle report:

Vet rider attacks reg spearman in Kolhapur and wins losing 2 hp.
Army attacks reg spearman in Kolhapur and wins losing 4 hp. Kolhapur is ours.

Notes:
- I should have captured Delhi earlier. The Great Wall is very annoying.
- Forces in the east still have movement left. This is the turn that they all healed, so you can attack with them.
- Three turns of anarchy, sorry!

May your reign be prosperous for you and your posterity! :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MPSG1_550AD.jpg (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/MPSG1_Tomo_550_AD.SAV)

Tone

Mar 31, 2005, 04:08 PM

I'm in the middle of a game so I'll play tomorrow. Reading the post it looks good though.

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 31, 2005, 04:15 PM

Great job Bede...er Tomoyo (what is up with these avatar switches?!? :confused: ). It looks like this has turned into an AW after all.

Had our GA ended before you revolted? I'm guessing yes, but just want to make sure.

It looks like India's just about dead. After we should kill the Iroquois, and finally Portugal.

India first sounds good because we don't know where Portugal is.

Well, we know there general location. They are "behind" the Iroquois.

Tomoyo

Mar 31, 2005, 04:25 PM

Yes, our GA ended before revolting.

And these avatar switches are for April Fools', but some people exhanged faces rather hastily.

Tone

Mar 31, 2005, 04:27 PM

Maybe if I had an avatar I'd be able to participate!

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 31, 2005, 04:28 PM

And these avatar switches are for April Fools', but some people exhanged faces rather hastily.

Yea, I just found a message by AK (I think...might've been Whomp... :confused: ) in SW4 that had a link to the topic.

That topic said to switch at noon today, but I don't know who's noon it meant.

Tomoyo

Mar 31, 2005, 04:38 PM

GMT noon. We jumped the gun.

Note that people living in Greenwich are no longer in GMT. :crazyeye:

MeteorPunch

Mar 31, 2005, 04:51 PM

Maybe if I had an avatar I'd be able to participate!

Just take someone's! it'll be fun..

Tomoyo

Mar 31, 2005, 04:52 PM

Maybe if I had an avatar I'd be able to participate!Maybe you should get one... :mischief:

MeteorPunch

Mar 31, 2005, 04:52 PM

@Tomoyo: What government are we revolting to? I *think* we were Monarchy.

Tomoyo

Mar 31, 2005, 04:54 PM

@Tomoyo: What government are we revolting to? I *think* we were Monarchy.We were a Despotism when I took over. I was intending to become a Monarchy...

MeteorPunch

Mar 31, 2005, 04:59 PM

We were a Despotism when I took over. I was intending to become a Monarchy...

Cool beans. I was thinking we revolted already for some reason.

Tomoyo

Mar 31, 2005, 05:05 PM

Cool beans. I was thinking we revolted already for some reason.Me too. I was surprised when I saw that we were a Despotism.

Tone

Mar 31, 2005, 05:10 PM

Now that's got me thinking...AW in Republic... :hmm: ... it'll be a change to the current SGOTM!

MeteorPunch

Mar 31, 2005, 05:15 PM

AW Republic = bad idea.

Tomoyo

Mar 31, 2005, 05:17 PM

AW Republic = Good only if you're T-hawk and you're playing on an RBC-ish map...

MeteorPunch

Mar 31, 2005, 05:22 PM

Whats RBC...republic based commerce :crazyeye: ?

Tomoyo

Mar 31, 2005, 05:27 PM

Realms Beyond Civilization (http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/)

Tone

Mar 31, 2005, 05:37 PM

RBC: Really Bad Concept?

I'm obviously in a stupid frame of mind

MeteorPunch

Mar 31, 2005, 05:52 PM

I'm obviously in a stupid frame of mind

I guess we'll have to skip you then :lol: .

Admiral Kutzov

Mar 31, 2005, 06:43 PM

I don't know who's noon it meant.
idiots can't tell time :)

Nice job bede/cmdr T. I'm assuming tone is up. and you know what that does...

can we have a roster check? or to use proper english, may we have a roster check?

where are we on the VC?

MeteorPunch

Mar 31, 2005, 06:46 PM

ROSTER:
1 MeteorPunch
2 Admiral Kutzov
3 IroquoisPlisken
4 Tomoyo
5 Tone

We could hit domination pretty soon...

IroquoisPlisken

Mar 31, 2005, 06:49 PM

Here you are, Admiral Whomp...

ROSTER:
1 MeteorPunch - on deck, I guess
2 Admiral Kutzov - skipped his last turn
3 IroquoisPlisken
4 Tomoyo - just went
5 Tone - UP

EDIT: Guess I was too late...

And yes, Domination shouldn't be too far off, but I haven't checked it in a while.

Tone

Apr 01, 2005, 12:32 AM

Ok-got it and playing it! looking forward to using those rider armies and a game simplicity in that evryone is our true enemy!

ps Kolhapur has a massive chance of flipping-needs 70 units to prevent a flip! I'll move the army out I think.

Edit: Domination is a way off target-we're at 37% land at the moment due to a lack of culture expansion. Conquest?

Tone

Apr 01, 2005, 03:06 AM

Prepare to be underwhelmed...

turn 0 (550)
Move rider armies to attack Delhi next turn and reduce the culture squeeze on the other

towns. Flips could be a problem!

turn 1 (560)
Deal with a few longbows up north with ACs. Pike knocks just 1hp off our first army then a spear knocks off 6! Send in the elite rider to finish the job and we have the GW! Elite horse attacks archer near Nanking and we have another GL.

IBT
We lose an AC and we get Gunpowder.

turn 2 (570)
A few minor skermishes where we lose some riders through bad RNG. Don't know what to do with MGL. Another army would be nice if we had some riders to put in it!

IBT
Now we are a monarchy

turn 3 (580)
A fair bit of mm-our core needs some more development and workers aren't there! Army takes Allegheny. Create army up north with MGL and upgrade a horse to load into it.

IBT
*$$##$#8@@! Delhi flips and we lose an army. It's getting razed next time.

turn 4 (590)
Take Mauch Chunk up North but can do nothing in the South

IBT
Karachi flips! I'm taking no more Indian cities

turn 5 (600)
Delhi retaken-sorry but I've had enough and it is razed!

IBT
Mauch Chunk flips. This is the second town that has flipped on the first available opportunity and the second time we've lost an army. (polite) words fail me.

turn 6 (610)
Nothing

turn 7 (620)
Raze Karachi. Lose an elite Rider to an unfortified Indian reg spear (protecting a settler) on grass and NOT over a river. The spear doesn't even lose a hp. Attack on Punjab also fails. The defending MDI killed our pike before this turn but the Rider and longbow fail to take the town-rider retreats.

turn 8 (630)
Just about kill that damn spear with another rider and raze the new Indian town. A rider is redlined when attacking a longbow on grass! Army goes on a killing spree taking out a spear and three longbows which makes me feel a little better.

turn 9 (640)
Attack on Grand River leaves just one defending L-Bow.

turn 10 (650)
Elite AC is turned back by the defending L-Bow. A vet Rider is then redlined but is victorious and we raze Grand River. Fantastic RNG yet again. Lone Rider attacks reg spear in Madras and loses. Get a change of luck on the attack on Mauch Chunk-riders defeat pikes and raze the town.

Sorry if you're not happy with my razing policy but I got fed up losing troops just before they were about to move on and handing back power to the AI!

Before you press enter: settler and worker still to move. More important than this-look at Canton! MDI has followed up our failed attempt on Punjab. If it were my turns I'd withdraw the rider and rush the L-Bow there but I'll leave that to your superior judgement.

MeteorPunch - up next
Admiral Kutzov - on deck
IroquoisPlisken
Tomoyo
Tone - hacked off!

MeteorPunch

Apr 01, 2005, 03:24 AM

ahh flips, love 'em!

When things start flippin', I start razin'

Coincidentally, I was gonna suggest razing cities as an option before this round, but thought, "who cares..." :lol:

Tomoyo

Apr 01, 2005, 06:29 AM

Ah, I thought that we might want the GW. Oh well. :(

IroquoisPlisken

Apr 01, 2005, 03:13 PM

Yea, you probably should have just left Delhi undefended with a few units outside, ready to take it back. The GW would have been helpful (I think, it gives walls to all cities, right? Never built it). Otherwise, I agree with razing. :)

Tone

Apr 01, 2005, 03:53 PM

I appreciate this. However I had cities flipping at the first opportunity with a lower probabilty than the situation I inherited. It is easy to be wise after the event ...

The GW is very useful when playing a defensive game but I cannot remember a single time that a city was attacked (before or after getting the GW) during my turns so its use is limited.

Do we need the GW? IMO no, we are going to win by conquest! We do need our troops though. I know about stationing troops outside cities but after the first flip we did not have enough troops to cover the numerous cities that could flip and with the luck I got (we were losing riders to spears) so allowing flips with *free* pikes did not make sense to me. Have you seen how few troops we have?

MeteorPunch

Apr 01, 2005, 04:03 PM

Have you seen how few troops we have?

Yeah I thought, "where's all our riders and armies?" We have like 10 offensive units :lol: . Also, when did Hiawatha get in on the action?

Tomoyo

Apr 01, 2005, 04:17 PM

Yeah I thought, "where's all our riders and armies?" We have like 10 offensive units :lol: . Also, when did Hiawatha get in on the action?During my turns. They just attacked for no reason and we almost lost a city because a regular warrior killed a vet spear, but then the reg spear under it retreated a MW.

MeteorPunch

Apr 01, 2005, 07:19 PM

Next person *might* be able to finish this one off...

650 Abandon Chittagong...hey, it was gonna flip! I fortified the Rider (deadmeat), and rushed a wall. The MDI is attacking across a river, so we'll see...the calculator says I have a 50.5% chance of winning+switched Huamanga to MDI.
660 Shantung founded The RNG luck continues as our MDI loses flawlessly to their unfortified MDI... on a hill... *ahem* across a river... but still! Abandon canton so it won't be taken... IT: Tone's1stMGLinalongtime Rider fights valiently vs a Longbowman and Templar but dies on a hill near Allgeny.
670 Punjab captured/destroyed. India has elephants. Tonawanda captured,then razed. Rider army avenge's Tone's Riders' death. Iroquois has Knights. Bangalore, Kolhapur, and Bengal all have nasty resistence problems and are abandoned. Change build orders in cities building settlers. Rush some Riders. IT: Those sneaky portuguese land a spearmen right next to our undefended (by me) capitol!
680 We kill the capitol invader. Ac wins vs spearman creating great leader yaaay! Madras captured.
690 Lahore is captured and the "weak" Indians are gone. Rider army assaults Salmanca killing 3. AC steps in and kills the last defender and what do you know, another GL! w00t! a couple Riders rushed. Emerita captuerd,then abandoned. IT: Portuguese complete Art of War :lol:
700 Oil Springs captured. Niagra Falls captured.
710 Cattaraugus captured. I thought this was the last Iroquois city but it's not so I'm gonna abandon some cities of theirs.
720
730
740
750?Oporto captured. Guimaras captured.

- The map is a wasteland and I am not MMing.
- 2/3 of our units are chillin' in Guimaras waiting for a rushed barrack to heal.
- I think the Iroquios have found an island paradise to hide from us so I built 2 Galleys to look for them.
- If I thought about it earlier, I would've had a leader build a new palace in Anyang.