View Full Version : Office of Expansion-Settlement discussion #3


snipelfritz
Mar 18, 2005, 05:37 PM
All right, where do we want to settle our third city?
Here's some kind of map.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/nationmapBC2350.JPG

Feel free to post any opinions etc. here.

snipelfritz
Mar 18, 2005, 05:42 PM
As a citizen,

I think we should settle on the tile between the cow and the tobacco(as indicated by the red dot). We need to grab these rescourses before the Dutch get them.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/cowbakyprop.JPG

Bill_in_PDX
Mar 18, 2005, 05:54 PM
Given the overwhelming vote for Culture victory as our goal, I would say go for the site that lost in the runoff vote for settlement 2.

donsig
Mar 18, 2005, 06:09 PM
You guys are too much! I'm the ninety-something registered citizen and our second city is named after me? :blush: If I'd have known that was gonna happen I'd have come up with a better name! :lol:

I guess it's fitting that I voted and campaigned for spot #2 instead this one. :mischief:

Now I don't know about city number 3. That red dot still looks good but I'm thinking if this is to be a permanent city (i.e., one we're not going to abandon later) then we should build the city one tile west of the dot. It's on the river. Sure, it doesn't get the tobacco but that stuff could cause problems down the road anyway. (What was Sid thinking putting tobacco in this game!) The red dot city was appealing as a temp settler factory but now that the Dutch are so close I think we need a permanent settlement. I suggest we build a city right where our warrior is standing. Hey, that's not W is it?

MOTH
Mar 18, 2005, 06:57 PM
Let's hold on this discussion until that warrior explores a bit more. I'd rather we see more of the Eastern expanse and see if we need to outmaneauver the Dutch first.

Provolution
Mar 18, 2005, 07:13 PM
I second Donsig on the warrior spot. No need for flawed part time locations.
The warrior spot got it all, and does not steal the bonus shield, have river and so on. MOTH, we need our borders consistent and intact, and the warrior spot does that too.

CivGeneral
Mar 18, 2005, 07:20 PM
I also second Donsig's choice for the settler location. This city should have high priority in the culture department to make sure that it builds temples, libraries, and other culture producing buildings in order to flip the dutch city.

Xerol
Mar 18, 2005, 07:20 PM
Not to mention the warrior spot gives us DIRECT(i.e. 0-turn) access to a Dutch city, meaning if we do end up at war we'd have a good shot at taking one with minimal losses.

YNCS
Mar 18, 2005, 07:20 PM
The warrior spot will keep the Dutch on the north side of the river and give us the cow.

Black_Hole
Mar 18, 2005, 07:24 PM
In the future please turn the grid on, thanks!
The warrior spot looks good, however maybe we should reevaluate after moving the warrior a bit...

DaveShack
Mar 19, 2005, 12:51 AM
Urgent new information is available regarding settlement locations. There are horses in the middle of the triange formed by us, Netherlands, and India. My position is we'd better grab them quickly, maybe even convert the granary build to a settler.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/DG6_BC2350_horse_sites.jpg

Provolution
Mar 19, 2005, 12:59 AM
And the name of the city, MOTHs "Roosting Tree" is perferct for that A spot, both to catch horses and to do other operations.

YNCS
Mar 19, 2005, 06:10 AM
I prefer B. C isn't on a river and A is too close to the Indians. That leaves B.

How many shields would we lose by switching Camelot from a grainary to a settler?

MOTH
Mar 19, 2005, 07:07 AM
Agressive builds is my choice.

Spot D is my choice. North of Spot B, East of spot C in the hills next to the lake followed by a culture build to extend borders to the horses and push back the Hague's borders. Its also allows another agressive city West of Spot A to push on Bombay.

I like spot B but it makes it difficult to fit a city in between there and Camelot.

I also think we should keep on with the Granary build before the settler as we need to be able to build City 4 as quickly as possible.

DaveShack
Mar 19, 2005, 08:35 AM
A settler would come in 2 turns if we switched. I would prefer to be guaranteed to get the horses, because if we wait there is a huge problem if one of our opponents chooses that location.

paulfish
Mar 19, 2005, 09:31 AM
switch and settle on A

DaveShack
Mar 19, 2005, 09:46 AM
I prefer B. C isn't on a river and A is too close to the Indians. That leaves B.

How many shields would we lose by switching Camelot from a grainary to a settler?

We don't lose any shields by switching. I would prefer A because B squeezes the cow at original site 2 a little too much. We're eventually going to want to try to culture flip Bombay, if we haven't already captured it at that point.

Bill_in_PDX
Mar 19, 2005, 12:41 PM
We need to get that horse, I would advocate switching to the settler.

Do we really think we can flip Bombay? It will closer to India's capital than our new city will be.

Provolution
Mar 19, 2005, 12:43 PM
Please switch to setller, no time to lose.

Bertie
Mar 19, 2005, 01:41 PM
I’m not inclined to switch production in Camelot from a granary to a settler. I agree it’s imperative that we secure the horses. We appear to be at the end of the world and I’d prefer to produce military units with mobility rather than foot soldiers. However I’m also worried about all that open land to the NE. That’s largely unexplored so we don’t know what goodies are out there, but given the map, that appears to be our natural expansion direction. The Dutch appear to be on steroids when it comes to producing settlers and I don’t want them settling that area before us, so that’s also a priority. Producing a settler in two turns is tempting because we get an immediate city; but we greatly delay the establishment of our settler factory. Is the cost worth it? Waiting is painful, but it’s what I suggest. Even if a rival civ settles the horses, it’s likely to be a weak city. Archers should be able to take it easily.

However, there are things we can do to discourage the Dutch or Indians from settling near the horses. We’re about to produce a warrior in Donsignia, and the warrior can head towards the mountain (between spaces 1 & 2 on DaveShack’s map) and act in a generally threatening manner. After the warrior, Donsignia should be able to produce a settler in a dozen or so turns, particularly if the workers irrigate the cow when they’re finished roading. That settler can secure the horses.

BTW I like Moth’s approach to aggressive settling, but I think it’s too early to make any moves like that. We’ll probably be at war with the Dutch or the Indians (my money is on the Dutch) within 40 turns or so. But I’d prefer to get some infrastructure established first – barracks – and crank out some vet units. Aggressive settling will irritate the Dutch, which is fine by me. But I don’t want them declaring war when we’re not ready; I want to declare war on our terms.

I’m not sure where the best city site is for the eastern cow. There’s a lot to be said for the spot we were originally considering that could share one of the irrigated wines with Camelot. After warrior Clubbings explores more toward the east, the ideal site might be obvious.

MOTH
Mar 19, 2005, 03:39 PM
It would be tragic to build a settler now. We would be knocked back to size 1 and our growth and production would be hampered for 20-30 turns.

Furiey
Mar 19, 2005, 03:50 PM
I can't load the save - how many shields are needed to complete the Granary?

greekguy
Mar 19, 2005, 04:27 PM
Horses are more important than cows, we should definitely get a city by the horses. i think it should be site a, because it has slightly better terrain and it could maybe, someday, flip Bombay.

Chieftess
Mar 19, 2005, 07:40 PM
It would be tragic to build a settler now. We would be knocked back to size 1 and our growth and production would be hampered for 20-30 turns.

However, the Dutch are pinning us in fast...

CivGeneral
Mar 19, 2005, 10:49 PM
We certanly dont want to be a piece of squished play-dough :-/.

classical_hero
Mar 20, 2005, 02:02 AM
I beleive that we should stop production of a warrior in Donsignia and produce a settler there also. We need to expand and fast, or else we will be boxed in, and then our only option would be war. I think that getting locations of C in DS's proposal and the area where the warrior is. These sites will need to be producing a lot of culture so we can flip those cites around them. I also think that we should try abd get that hut an hope that it pops up a city or a settler.

mad-bax
Mar 20, 2005, 03:21 AM
Too much focus on the horses. Please set up settler factory as intended. Please settle third city in the location given by runner up in previous poll.

There is no need to panic. Every city the AI founds is one less settler for us to build. In order to dictate the game we need a strong core. With a strong core, we can decide which recources we need and then take them. A weak core will only mean not being able to utilise the resources we have.

People need to chill out a bit. Even if we have to manufacture an archer rush it will be OK.

Provolution
Mar 20, 2005, 03:23 AM
I agree, I always hated sprawled borders some are strong advocates for in their lust for particular wheat, cattle and so on. Consistent borders, good production and proper organization will win the day, not some wild goose chase for special tiles.

DaveShack
Mar 20, 2005, 08:28 AM
The number of Dutch settlers walking around is new information since we found out where the horses are, and does represent a bigger threat at this point. We'll be in real trouble if we have too few cities at the end of expansion.

OK then, core production first, then worry about how to take the resources if they're already taken. Both India and Netherlands have middle ages UUs, so if we need to do an archer rush we should be able to get away with it.

mad-bax
Mar 20, 2005, 10:44 AM
India is being squeezed like us. They will go to war with either us or the Dutch soon. There is a discussion about who to hit first. For me it would be India by 750BC and then The Dutch at about 400BC. Once the dutch get feudalism we will be in a world of hurt. We have to put these two to bed right now IMO.

Bertie
Mar 20, 2005, 10:59 AM
The number of Dutch settlers walking around is new information since we found out where the horses are, and does represent a bigger threat at this point.

Although confirmation that the Dutch are sending out settlers is new, it’s really what we’ve been expecting. The Dutch have the agricultural trait which boosts early growth. That, combined with the killer location for what I assume is their settler factory (Rotterdam), should make us anticipate we’re going to see a lot more Dutch cities spring up. The Netherlands capital appears to be north of Rotterdam, so I wonder why they’re settling so far south. Possibly the land up there isn’t that useable or they’re trying to block our expansion; more likely there are some yummy resources down our way that they’re trying to claim.

I agree with mad-bax that war with both India & the Dutch will be coming quite soon. I prefer to attack the Dutch first, but I’m easy.

We may want to start thinking about doing a dot map to discipline us a bit more in placing our cities. Now that Clubbings ‘R us has revealed new territory, I see no reason not to go ahead and form our third city on the tile SE of the cow. Alas, the workers have already constructed a road on that tile (a waste of effort) and are irrigating a cow that won’t be needed for another 7 or so turns while they’ve neglected Donsignia’s cow. A dot map would also help us better plan our worker activities.

For our fourth city – since there’s some concern about securing the horse tile – I suggest we change production in Donsignia from a warrior (it appears it’s already produced two, including one that is on MP duty) to a settler. Switching production will give us a settler in no more than 8 turns. I suggest this settler form a city on the hill east of the horses (“B” on your map earlier in this thread) and the city be set to produce a barracks (after Donsignia produces a settler I’d have it produce a barracks too). BTW, a downside with having Donsignia produce a settler is we’re going to knock its population down to 1 again; but I’d rather have the settler.

BTW, I’ll post the suggestion in the Governor’s thread, but before we begin the next turn we should micromanage Camelot: the citizen currently working the tile due north of Camelot should be changed to work one of the two fish for one turn. We won’t need the extra shield the worker will produce, and switching to the fish gives us the same amount of food but yields an extra gold piece.

Chieftess
Mar 20, 2005, 11:49 AM
I guess this is just one of those starts...

Had this been Sid level, it would've required an immediate restart. ;) (although, there are ways... like attacking when the other 2 civs are at war).

DaveShack
Mar 20, 2005, 01:43 PM
It looks like the Dutch capitol is just north of the wheat, and we're on a very long and narrow pangaea. Given their settlement pattern and the pattern of land types in the revealed tiles, the crystal ball says the area NE of the Dutch capitol may be a huge desert.