We'll be playing as the Vikings, with an idea stolen directly from denyd, somewhat similar to a game Sesn hosted way back. The idea here is that we build archers for upgrade to Berserks - and nothing else. Archers and Berserks the whole game. Now, I was thinking I might make the exception that some defenders are allowed, but I really would rather not. However, all the artillery we want. Of course, we'll be invading from the ocean, so how much good can that really do.

Level = Demigod
Civ = Scandinavia
Map Type = Archipelago, 80% water coverage (at least something has to be in our favor)
Opponents = random
Size = standard

Spots will be saved for players from bed_04. I haven't gotten confirmation from any, but I believe at least two slots will be taken, if not three. As this is denyd's idea, plain and simple, a spot will be saved for him unless he indicates that he does not want it (@denyd - I wasn't clear from your PM). So potentially a full roster, but I have never said no to a sixth, and I am not sure that all with reserved spots will actually take them. So don't be afraid to sign up!

I generated some decent starts, but didn't save the most promising one. I do have a screenshot of it, though. :blush: It is tough to get a river and a food bonus on 80% archipelago, so anyone who manages to get a random one for me will win my heart.

I hope I covered it all.

Roster:
Bede
Renata
denyd
MailMan
bed_head7
ThERat

Bedhead,You'd love it.Two Rivers with 2BG and Wine on Grass.

Bed,maybe that suits your needs 2.

Not a sign up.And all in 4 billion years,Normal temperature and humidity,no Barbs.
Seeds are reserved,I'll upload save if you like.

checking in, but please a spot in the back of roster, busy with some more SG's

I'd like to join, if you'll have me.

Renata

@Bed_Head: I am sorry but i will have to skip this game. YOu can open the sport you reserved for me... Too many SGs and too busy RL at the same time... I will have to cut on SGs for a while.
I will be lurking around though.

You guys have fun.

Cool, Renata, you're in. Sorry you couldn't join dmanakho.

Go ahead and upload that second save plarq.

Claiming that spot, bed. That was quick.

Nice spin on the start. plarq.

Turns out GOTM 41 took less time that expected, so I'd be happy to join if there's still a spot.

Alrighty. Looks like we now have a full set here, though it isn't to late to nab the optional sixth spot. Does this work for a roster?

Bede
Renata
denyd
bed_head7
ThERat

Get me a file and I'll open the dancing. How about a Virginia Reel?

So settler NW and worker to cow to irrigate would be my suggestion.

Researching either pottery or writing at maximum. I think I'd check out who was around before deciding on this one. Lots of agriculture & expansionists around I would go writing and hope to trade, otherwise pottery.

Then a choice between archer or curragh? I think I'd start with a archer in case there be baddies nearby. Then a curragh followed by a granary and a settler.

There's a narrow window to win this one as once rifles show up it gets real difflcult. I had originally thought about this as either a monarch or emperor level game. DG's tech pace means that the Great Lighthouse is almost a must get in case there's a need for ocean crossings pre-galleons.

Your suggested moves for the start sound fine. My preference for first build is without a doubt curragh. plarq said he turned off barbs, and if an AI attacks that early, oh well. I also second the research ideas.

And I think Great Lighthouse sounds good to me. We'll want to find a good city for that and get it moving pretty quickly, as it is only two techs away, and we won't be doing min.

We do want to do everything we can to slow down techs, so make sure always to build embassies, and trade intelligently according to what you know. Getting to parity isn't always necessary, and cleaning the AI out of all of their gold isn't necessary. Most important is keeping them from getting Writing and Map Making, both for the Great Lighthouse and also so they can't get contacts with galleys. If we can conquer a foe using archers in the AA, all the better.

Works for me. I can play either tonight, if Bede plays fast ;), or Wednesday.

No time to comment now; back later.

Renata

the seed of the second map is "GreasyCafe" :lol:

Thanks, plarq. We got beer for the horses and beef for the men.

You'll have it Wednesday, Renata.

Well, GreasyCafe fits well, doesn't it? Burgers and buns right there. :)

Have fun, Bede. I tried to come up with some words of wisdom a la denyd and bed_head, but failed miserably. Too many variables. I think you'll need to take a wild guess on pottery. If we have any room at all to expand, a granary will be invaluable, but given this is archipelago, there may not be. We may have no neighbors to trade with, either. So it's a bit of a crap shoot. Do try to land on good numbers. ;)

Renata

I will be happy to join if you want to use the sixth slot

Sure thing, MailMan!

Great.

My 2-cents for the start position:
I agree on the starting moves:
- settler NW and worker to irrigate the cow. I suggest mining the wheat afterward (we will have 5fpt)
- build curragh (I suggest building 2)
- research: I suggest going full speed to pottery (only 1 civ knows it) and then go to writing-->lit.

So settler NW and worker to cow to irrigate would be my suggestion.

Researching either pottery or writing at maximum. I think I'd check out who was around before deciding on this one. Lots of agriculture & expansionists around I would go writing and hope to trade, otherwise pottery.

Then a choice between archer or curragh? I think I'd start with a archer in case there be baddies nearby. Then a curragh followed by a granary and a settler.

There's a narrow window to win this one as once rifles show up it gets real difflcult. I had originally thought about this as either a monarch or emperor level game. DG's tech pace means that the Great Lighthouse is almost a must get in case there's a need for ocean crossings pre-galleons.

Can't go wrong following denyd's good counsel, so worker goes to water the cows, the settler goes NW, and we'll start on pottery at the max and build a boat.

Curragh sets sail in 3600BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_3600.jpg

With pottery due in 6 start a barracks in Trondheim to bank some shields for the granary.

In 3500 find the Spanish just across the bay too close to elephants for real comfort.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_3500.jpg

They already know Alphabet and we don't need Ceremonial Burial at her prices so bid her "Buenos Noches" and sail on.

In 3050BC I again test the waters for a trade with Izzie and she doesn't offer enough for what we have and wants way too much for her stuff (Bronze Working and Ceremonial Burial).

I may have made an error here for if I had built a warrior then a settler before the granary we might have been able to bottle Izzie up on her peninsula. On the other hand, every time I get between a woman and where she wants to go she runs right over me like a fullback....

Izzie learns the bow and arrow thing in 3000BC (I am now having visions of Victorian maidens in white muslin shooting at bulls-eyes on the lawn, though that doesn't really fit the hoydenish Isabella in her leather and fur jerkin).

The worker has been diligently following orders to irrigate road and mine south of the river. There are elephants to our Nordeast and spices to the Nord and what feels like a of of land to our backs.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_3000.jpg

Granary is due in 2 and growth in 3 so you should be able to catch the first settler right on the money.

The Rota:
Renata - in the boat
denyd - waitin' on the dock o' the bay
bed_head7
ThERat
Bede

Looks like Lizzie is going to have to make an early exit in this one.

Bed_Head: Are we allowed to build the Statue of Zeus or Knights Templar?

After the first settler, we should probably get an archer or two just in case Lizzie gets uppity.

Looks like Lizzie is going to have to make an early exit in this one.

Bed_Head: Are we allowed to build the Statue of Zeus or Knights Templar?

After the first settler, we should probably get an archer or two just in case Lizzie gets uppity.

I was thinking more like six or seven archers......

Preference is not to build SoZ. If we capture it and get some free units out of it, I can't complain, but I would rather not build it. Same for KT. MailMan, unless you have any preference, I'll slot you in before me.

Bede
Renata
denyd
MailMan
bed_head7
ThERat

Oh, I am all for an early archer rush.

I suggest the following
- The capital should spawn several settlers.
- the rest of the cities should rush archers
- we should hold the choke point as soon as possible. until the spanish has MM they will have trouble expanding.

Our capital is located in a great position in the island.

MailMan, unless you have any preference, I'll slot you in before me.That's OK with me.

I got it.

I took a look at the save. We're actually short shields for 4-turn settler-building until one of those bonus grasses is mined, which'll take us about a dozen more turns even if we don't road anything. Given that, anyone else think that a worker before the settler might be a good idea?

I'm also tempted to send the warrior back to the land-bridge right now and hold off further exploration until another can be built. South looks like a decent site for an early second city given those two bonus grasses; a third could go east and find something decent, too, probably. There probably are not more civs to be met on our landmass, and if there are, the curragh is in position to find them soon, anyway.

My preference for the long run is to irrigate the wheat -- we have enough BGs at the capital to manage a 4-6 settler factory using it for food on alternate turns, and that'd let a southern city get some benefit from it, too.

I think I can play tonight.

Renata

I think a city to the east (E/NE/NE) can be more efficient in the short term. maily due to all the forest we can chop.
I think that in that case we can use the cow for 1 turn out of 4 in a 5-7 settler factory. (needs to be checked carfully).

Renata: I read you mention a warrior, how did we get a warrior? We should only be able to build archers & beserks. If that is a warrior, then we should probably return him to the capital and disband him (good time to build an archer).

I agree with blocking the choke ASAP, but recently I did that and the AI moved a settler next to my blocker and dropped a city on a hill forcing me off his lands and creating a difficult entry to his core. Of course it was Greece, soo I had to get through a fortified Hoplite on a hill with swords (no horses), which was costly.

Sure, peel a worker off the capital, and generally my preference is for all irrigation, but don't we need to irrigate two tiles to get to the wheat, meaning we will have better things to do with our worker? Though if we do get another one, I guess it will be alright.

To be honest, I don't care about the single warrior at this point. Lets not build any more, but that warrior is not going to be doing any fighting so I see no reason to disband it right now.

Ok, I'm officially stupid. :) I looked at the save very quickly this morning and mistook the Spanish warrior up by our curragh as being ours. (It's only one tile away! Almost the same tiles are lit up as if it were! We'll just ignore it being a different color and all that ... )

Ok anyway. It'll be a while before we have a military unit, then -- quite possibly too late to block the choke. If the Spanish don't settle right *on* it, though, we could still try to block it off to limit the damage.

Renata

Next time look at the map first Deny :blush: If we hurry up and get an archer to that mountain east of the northern Spanish city we will have locked Lizzie. Her cultural expansion won't get that tile for a long time. It will also let us get those spices and ivory without any fight. Planting a settler on that choke point isn't a bad idea either.

Anybody else besides me think there might not be much land to the east?

Preturn -- well, nothing really. It's too early. :p

2950 BC (1): Curragh spies a wheat on plains to our northeast. Landmass in fact does not appear to be very large.

IT: Trondheim granary-worker.

2900 BC (2): More wandering.

IT: Spain starts the Colossus. Good, fewer settlers that way.

2850 BC (3): Diplo screen says Spain has ivory hooked up. No new techs yet. There's a Spanish warrior exploring out to our east -- must be a different one than the one that was up north. Lux 40%.

IT: Trondheim worker-settler.

2800 BC (4): Lux back to 30%. Send new worker to a bonus grass. Settler will take five turns.

2750 BC (5): Scratch that, can get settler in 4 if a plains tile is used on the last turn. Lux back to 40%.

2710 BC (6): Yep, not much room at all out there to the east. A little grassland, then a band of hills along the coast.

2670 BC (7): Curragh spots a deer close by to the southeast. Good city site. Lux 50%.

IT: Trondheim settler-settler. Spanish settle Toledo by the spices on our side of the choke. An archer might still be able to get through to block further incursions.

2630 BC (8): Guess I get to decide where to send the settler without benefit of discussion first. :) Worker heads to the bonus grass that's on the way.

2590 BC (9): The full extent of our continent has been explored. Better get those archers coming! Hideous food wastage on this upcoming turn, but I think our settler factory is in business.

2550 BC (10): Found Bergen, set to archer. Lux to 40% again, settler in 2, although it says 3 -- it'll pick up a shield on growth. So bizarre not having any forests at all in the capital radius -- about the only thing the place lacks. Writing due in 22, supposedly, but next player will have to cut back on spending before he runs out of cash. No new techs from Isabella. There's some nice-looking sea tiles to the south of our curragh, but I'm not sure how much there would be to find this far south.

Dotmap, anyone?

Renata

Well that picture pretty much sealed Isabella's fate.

Do we want a barracks before we start on archers?

Trondheim should keep producing settlers and all others should be devoted to military until Spain is gone.

I'd try a dot map, but without the grid, I'm not sure of where tiles start & end (no game access at work). If we can get an agreed upon dot map out in the next 12 hours, I can play tonight.

BTW: I got it

Do we want a barracks before we start on archers?Barracks are cheap for us, we should build them first.

We also want some workers to build roads to take the archers faster toward spain.

Whoops. Knew I forgot something. I'm stuck at work, so I can't put up a new picture with gridlines.

I think one archer to go block off that choke would be worthwhile before a barracks. That would keep the number of cities on our side down to a reasonable number.

Renata

From your friendly neighborhood lurker. Hope noone minds the interloper. :)

Due to a unexpected event (I forgot my wife was going to a mom's club event and I've got daddy duty), I won't get to this until tomorrow night.

That opens uip some more time for dot map suggestions. I'll try to get one put together if I can get junior to bed before 11pm ( :lol: )

Sorry, but I won't be able to participate much in the city placement process and other similar issues at hand. One thing I will say is that regular units are a huge pet peeve of mine, and if we can avoid it, lets build barracks before units. I am sure you'll all do fine without my input, though.

Aww... I wanted to join. :(

If no one else minds, I'd be happy to let you play. Seven is a bit unconventional, but I hate to say no to someone who I know is interested and will play well.

I've decided against it, now. I have two 100K games in the milking phase going on and those take up a lot of time.

I guess no one had time to put a dot map together. I'll play this one tomorrow morning and post the results later. I should be able to settle another couple of cities and have the choke blocked by an archer. After thinking about it, it's probably a good idea to block the choke ASAP regardless if it's not with a veteran. He's probably a sacrificial lamb anyway.

Turn Log 1

Turn 0 – 2550 BC – Reduce research 10% adding 3 turns but preventing bankruptcy

IBT: Not much

Turn 1 – 2510 BC – Worker starts road – Curragh is heading to the NW corner for a suicide run across the sea tiles

IBT: Trondheim builds a settler starts and archer due to a Spanish warrior nearby – Bergen is connected

Turn 2 – 2470 BC – I decide on a spot for city 3 and send settler that way – Worker from Bergen sent to help other worker road to 3rd city (and ivory)

IBT: Apologize to Isabella for the curragh intrusion

Turn 3 – 2430 BC – Workers complete road and move to towards ivory – Switch Bergen to a barracks

IBT: Spanish warrior moves off

Turn 4 – 2390 BC – Settler reaches selected site

IBT: Curragh spots Spanish settler in NW – Trondheim builds archer starts a worker (teams of 3 work best)

Turn 5 – 2350 BC – Orion (archer) is sent to block the choke – Settler founds Copenhagen starts a barracks

IBT: Another Spanish warrior appears in the east

Turn 6 – 2310 BC – Orion on the move – workers reach ivory – Curragh (renamed Eric) reaches NW point

IBT: Spanish warriors move off – Trondheim builds a worker starts a settler

Turn 7 – 2270 BC – Spain now has Masonry – New worker moves to join others who have begun to connect ivory – Eric heads north on his sea voyage – Orion moving towards Spain

IBT: Just Spanish warrior movement

Turn 8 – 2230 BC – Eric finds another island – Orion reaches Spanish border – New worker reaches team

IBT: Ivory is connected

Turn 9 – 2190 BC – Orion enters Spanish lands – Workers moves to road to northern spices – Eric finds a lot of coastline

IBT: Bergen builds barracks starts an archer (also grows to size 2)

Turn 10 – 2150 BC – Orion almost through Spain – Workers build a road – Eric heading N, but no new contacts

After actions notes: Not much really, Trondheim is back pumping out settlers, there is a 3-man worker team building roads to future city sites - Bergen has a barracks and is beginning to produce Veteran archers - Orion is about to reach the choke point to cut off further Spanish settlers to our half of our isand - Eric the Curragh has found a whole bunch of new coastlines to explore, but no inhabitants yet - We a behind in techs but should be able to trade writing for all of Spain's level one techs

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Homeland.jpg

Okay, back with time to actually post something.

I am thinking we hold off on trading writing for the time being. Both GLs will be of huge value to us. Great Lighthouse speeds our attacks, and this game will be all about getting land fast enough that we don't hit the IA. Great Library generally has a slowing effect to a degree on tech pace. If we aren't driving forward so that we have something with which to trade, generally the AI will research redundantly. Archers are not of great value to us, but if we are doing nothing more with our money than accumulating gold for the pricey upgrade to Berserks, we can have 10-15 berserks ready to go as soon as we learn Invention.

As such, we will want to get Map Making right away. If we ahve a good city for a prebuild, lets start one soon. After that, we can go a little slower after Literature, and time completion with another prebuild. I think with Writing -> Philo (free tech Map Making) -> Literature at a moderate pace will probably put us in good shape. The only other issue to be dealt with in the AA will be Spain.

One other thing to note is that worker stacks when roading are not all that efficient. Unless there is a great need to rush a road somewhere, it is better to let one worker road the tile. The reason being that if three workers move onto an unroaded tile to road it in one, they each waste a turn. Having each worker go to a separate tile to road gets three tiles roaded in four turns. Using stacks takes six turns.

Roster:
Bede
Renata
denyd
MailMan <- up
bed_head7 <- on deck
ThERat

I have got it. I will play in about 12 hours.
Please advise.

Checked out the save, and I have a couple more comments.

Trondheim should always be kept at +5fpt. I do not know what happened, but there is only 4f in the box.

We definitely do not need to be in a huge hurry to get that plains wheat up there. Until we can get irrigation up there, which will be awhile, it will be a very un-out of the ordinary 2f1s tile. My personal preference for the next settler is 3 tiles S of the capital. With three BG, it will make a decent spot for the Great Lighthouse. Not great, but the best we have available as far as I can tell. Once we irrigate the wheat, that spot can steal it every once in awhile.

After that, we may decide to head for the wheat, or take a spot off to the east. There aren't any spots over there that yell for a city, but if we can place so that we can fit three cities over there, that would be good.

I have got it. I will play in about 12 hours.
Please advise.

Anything else you need?

Anything else you need?I just like to hear a lot of opinions before I play. It both gives a new ideas and help keeping every team member in the game.

That is great. I wasn't sure if you were going for something in particular that may have been answered in my post. If it was something I had not addressed, I wanted to answer it for you before turning off the computer (I hadn't planned on staying awake this long). Anyway, you are the only person on this team with whom I have not previously played, so I am not familiar with your style.

I'd put the Lighthouse at higher priority than the Library right now. Research will stay nice and slow if we simply research nearly everything ourselves and from a few techs behind. Viking galleys with LH can go five tiles sea-to-sea in a single turn -- that's probably enough to get us most places without needing to hurry to astronomy. So Invention is our only critical tech. Great Library will/would be of most use simply in saving cash and keeping current without effort.

As to settlement plans, agree with bed_head on filling up the grasslands first -- by the time that's done we should have some workers to get the irrigation going. Since we don't have all that much space to fill, I wouldn't be against Trondheim building a 2-turn worker or two between settlers.

I can't open the save until after Tuesday -- computer's being wonky and someone's coming to look at it then. At this rate, that won't be a problem. :)

Renata

preturn:
MM capital for 5 food.

IBT - spain boot our archer

1. 2110BC
Trondhelm: settler --> settler
move settler south
share wheat with Bergen


2. 2070BC
fortify archer on a mountain to block access to our side.

3. 2030BC
found Roza, set production to granery. hopfully in about 20 turns we will learn masonary to use that granery as prebuild to a palace as a prebuild to the lighthouse
worker found another wheat to the north. next settler goes there.

4. 1990BC
nothing much. MM capital.

5. 1950BC
Trondhelm: settler --> settler

5. 1910BC (just noticed I played an extra turn - sorry)
nothing much. MM capital.

IBT - spain start the oracle

6. 1870BC
Bergen: archer --> archer
Copenhagen: barracks --> archer.

IBT: we learn writing. start philosophy (hopfully MM as free tech)
spanish finish the Colossus.
they start building the pyramids.

7. 1830BC
found Oslo. start barracks.
park archer at the capital to lower lux slider.


8. 1790BC
Trondhelm: settler --> settler. take settler north to grab spices.


9. 1750BC
spain warrior enter our territory. I think he is heading home.

10. 1725BC
finally met another civ - Japan.

Summery.
concentrated on expansion. built two cities, one more settler on the way.
learnt writing. philosophy in 13.
I am leaving to the next player to handle trading and the warrior near our capital.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed1.jpg

our whole empire defended by 1 archer and a block-archer :eek: hope Spain doesn't taste blood

edit: on a positive note, all the Spanish towns are coastal :hammer: :viking:

1625 BC (4) - Meet Persia. With them as available trading partners, Pottery gets us Masonry and 14g from Spain.

1525 BC (8) - Meet the Ottomans. Give Alphabet for 54g and Ceremonial Burial. Persia and Japan know Writing now, and Philo is due next turn. Then a flurry of trades (actually more than I should have done, but it is a hard habit to break), getting a fair amount of gold, Math, BW, IW, The Wheel, Mysticism, and HBR. We have two sources of horses and one of iron, in our tiny area. I would not have made all of these trades if it were not for the fact that I wanted catapults for our upcoming offensive against the Spanish. Archers are bad enough, and archers without catapults would just be awful.

1500 BC (10) - Finish Philo, take Map Making, start Literature at min.

Hold off on trading anything anymore. We need to improve the Great Lighthouse city as soon as possible, but workers in progress should work on their own cities. Trondheim can go to pumping workers after this next settler, which should grab the land to the northwest. After a few workers, we can build another settler and plop another city down to the east, and then some more workers. The worker next to Trondheim right now should just keep on irrigating towards the plains and desert.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed_06_1500BC.jpg

I had planned on putting the settler on the horses, but once the horses became visible, I wasn't sure if perhaps we should settle where the settler now stands. I suppose settling on it doesn't really cost us anything except the commerce early on, but once in a good government we'll get it back in our center tile.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed_06_1500BC_east.jpg



Bede <- on deck
Renata
denyd
MailMan
bed_head7
ThERat <- up

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed06_1250BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
decide to settle on top of that horse, after all at least we do not need to worry for it to be pillaged
polytheism is only doubtful for HBR ans maths, well, we hold on then
establish embassy with Spain, we need to know what they are up to
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed61500.jpg

1.1475BC
settler moves north, we need more contacts faster, rush a galley

2.1450BC
found Aaarhus on horses, starts a temple to get whales

3.1425BC
Stavanger founded right in the face of that Spanish warrior, it reveals 2 more of them hanging around
spices connected lux can go down to 0%

4.1400BC
worker action around Lighthouse city

IT suicide galley lost

5.1350BC
rush another galley, don't understand how the corruption calculation works, but Bergen (4 tiles away from capital has less
corruption 1/6 than Roza 2/6 which is 3 tiles away)

6.1325BC
our dingy in the south spot a new border, lighthouse now in 48

7.1300BC
join 1 worker into Roza, reassign tiles and lighthouse now in 39
we meet Hittites, they know not much of this world
decide to build an embassy that reveals a 1 pop capital
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed61300.jpg

8. 1275BC
working action and sending galley north for shortcut to Celts

IT galley survives and we go further up

9. 1250BC
for some reason this is turn 70 and I am going to stop here
a settler will be ready next turn, suggest to send him north
galley should best sent west to reach shore
no new techs we aquired durng my turns, surely the AI will come up with some soon

I am not sure why we selected this as the wonder town since it won't be able to work a lot of shields and I doubt we can make it, surely Bergen would have been a better choice, never mind, work the 6th tile and consider joining another worker if needed

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed61250.jpg

I don't feel like we need Great Lighthouse immediately, and even though it is a bit slow, we should be able to get it. I do not want the Spanish surviving the AA, and Bergen is our military town. Roza can do 10 before corruption at size 6, which probably means 8 after corruption, which seemed decent for our wonder town. Bergen will probably get the Great Library.

Good call on whipping the galley. I considered it, as when I saw that we had one curragh when I inherited, I was rather surprised/disappointed. Glad to see more of the map revealed.

You missed counting 1375 BC, meaning only 9 turns in your log when 10 were played.

And, of less importance, you have this game in your signature twice. Of course, that might just mean this game is twice as important as all others, which I can live with.

And, of less importance, you have this game in your signature twice. Of course, that might just mean this game is twice as important as all others, which I can live with.

:lol: That's the way Rat express his eagerness.I guess Spain won't survive the Archer rush,with Cats they are sharp blades.

Got it.

Put some muscle on the border.

Being something of an intelligence junkie I investigate Seville and Barcelona so I can see all of Spain. Only really noticeable item is the two settlers bottled up in Seville and that the Spanish lack both iron and horses.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_1250BC_00.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_1250BC_01.jpg

And now we know what Spain looks like

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_1250BC_02.jpg

Wonder how we are going to get catapults into Spain.....and our lone galley is destined for sinking in the North Sea, so swap Stavanger to a galley, Aarhus to a harbor as it will get greater value from the coastal squares and growth than from the temple and the whale and send the lone citizen fishing as the shield from the forest is lost but the gold from the sea stays in the treasury.

In 1225 Spain's borders expand and our archer gets booted from his aeryie in the mountain.

Persian finish the Oracle, Japanese start the Pyramids, Ottomans the Temple of Artemis and the Pyramids.

Our galley survives the sea crossing and starts a cruise up the coast of Japan. The Eric is checking out the Hittites.

The three Spanish warriors crew up and head east towards Oslo and the settler from Trondheim is on the way to the iron hill.

1200
Spanish settlers head out of Seville and the SoZ moves to Barcelona.

1150
Persia and Japan now have Map Making so I open an embassy with Persia, they are building the Lightouse due in 28.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_1150BC_00.jpg

And since they also know the Ottomans try to find a deal that will empty Osman's treasury for him which just happens to be Philosophy.

He also holds Polytheism as a monopoly which will probably get him Map Making from Persia. I can get Polytheism for all our knowledge plus 142g. As he can make the same deal with either Persia or Japan go ahead and make the deal to get what value I can for what we already know.

In 1125 Barcelona builds the Statue of Zeus. The Hittites start the Great Lighthouse.

In 1050Bc we are waltzing with a Spanish settler team in the north. And our exploring galley sinks off the coast of Ottomans.

It is 1000BC and time to start the war against Spain. Edit: it's tempting but I'm not so sure it's a good idea...

There is a warrior-settler loose in the north that could stand a whacking before they hit our settler on the coast.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_1000BC_00.jpg

We are in a race against Persia for the Lighthouse, both due in 22.
We can use WLTKD in Roza now that it has grown to six to get back the shield lost to corruption there. We have enough cash in the bank to raise the luxury impost to the 90% needed, and even hire a clown. It is set that way right now. The mined wheat is now assigned to Bergen for more efficient archer training but could also be used at Trondheim for four turn settlers.

Oh boy, if we miss the Great Lighthouse, it is going to be a real bummer...and my fault. And you said we only get it in 22 with WLTKD?

Oops, forgot the roster.

Roster:
Bede
Renata <- up
denyd <- on deck
MailMan
bed_head7
ThERat

WLKTD will get us the missing shield to pull it in time.

And now that I think on it, war with Spain right now is not a good idea....

I see it, but I'm off to class -- won't be able to play until tonight at the earliest, maybe tomorrow. Feel free to tell me why war with Spain would be a bad idea. ;)

Renata

Mostly cause six archers and two cats and one galley do not a Stack o' Doom comprise.

I was guilty of being a little beforehand, with all our forces comitted and nothing in the back line. If Isabella gets even a single five point horseman loose in our territory we are going to regret it, defending with archers. Need a few more archers at least.

A wet, muddy sidewalk reached up and mugged me on my way back from class, with the result that I am in desperate need of an aspirin, a shower, and some sleep, not necessarily in that order. Will play tomorrow night barring further indignities.

Got it.

Renata

I agree with Bede on waiting a bit to engage Isabella. We cannot afford to lose a war at this time. Once we've put together a small SOD (10-12 archers w/4-5 cats plus a defensive reserve) it'll be time to roll over her. Until then make nice, keep exploring, settling and building up the military for the future.

:sad: about the Renata mugging. I hope all is well now.

Thank you for the sympathy, denyd. I tell you, sidewalks these days ... all up to no good. The darn thing even tried to make off with my car keys -- I found them a few feet up the embankment half buried in the mud. I'm fine though, just bruised and briefly very muddy.

Back on topic -- I may need to ask for a skip for this round, as I've been recruited to help paint our bathroom ceiling tonight. Depends how long it takes; I'll post within 12 hours either way. Sorry about the holdup.

Renata

Sorry all, I need a skip -- I'm now either computer-less, bathroom-(and hence apartment-)less or both until at least the weekend. :(

Renata

I'd offer you a bedroom with internet & Civ access, but you're on the wrong coast and I've got a mother-in-law using the room until Friday. :D

I got it and I'll check in during lunch with thoughts about the turnset.

Taking a look at the last couple of turn-sets, here is my plan for my set:

1. Do whatever is possible to speed the Great Lighthouse completion
2. Increase the number of archers & catapults on the Spanish border
3. Add a couple of new cities to claim the remaining land on the island
4. Get 1 (maybe 2) new galleys out exploring

Anything else anyone can think of?

BTW: What are our research goals in case something comes available in trade?

Sounds like a good checklist. I can't think of much we really need in terms of technology, so just use your best judgement.

Link to game file (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Ragnar_Lodbrok_of_the_Vikings,_750_BC.SAV)

Turn 0 – 1000 BC – Slider to 1-7-2 – Literature in 10 – Great Lighthouse due in 22

IBT: Spanish warrior / settler pair heading for our settler – Oslo worker->barracks – Ottoman build Pyramids in Edrine

Turn 1 – 975 BC – Not sure why a galley was sleeping, so I name it Ben and send him out to look for Japan & the Arabs – Settler founds Hareid and disappoints Isabella – starts a barracks – Eric keeps sailing along

IBT: Spanish settler heads home – Birka catapult-catapult – Stavanger catapult->barracks – Spain starts the Great Wall & Great Lighthouse – Madrid builds the Great Wall (things just got tougher) – Japan starts Great Lighthouse

Turn 2 - 950 BC – Moving units to Spanish border & continue to improve our lands – Eric & Ben are moving in known waters

IBT: Trondheim settler->barracks

Turn 3 - 925 BC – Begin consolidating troops to a single SOD – Not sure where to send settler so send him to SOD so we can raze / replace Toledo

IBT: Bergen archer->archer – Copenhagen archer->archer

Turn 4 - 900 BC – Stack continues to grow

IBT: Odense worker->worker

Turn 5 – 875 BC – Another archer on the SOD – Workers move to connect eastern cities – Ben & Eric are sailing along

IBT: Eric spots an about to be settled Hittite city – Trondheim barracks->archer – Ottomans starts Hanging Gardens

Turn 6 – 850 BC – 2 more archers on the stack – Eric in new waters spots a horse & wheat about to be claimed by Hittites

IBT: Bergen archer->archer – Stockholm worker->catapult

Turn 7 – 825 BC – Eric spots some nice bananas – SOD is now 10 Archers & 4 Catapults

IBT: Copenhagen archer->archer – Stavanger barracks->archer – Philosophy is now starting to spread

Turn 8 – 800 BC – Sell philosophy to Persia for 75g - Sell philosophy to Hittites for 41g – New archer sent north for city defense

IBT: Trondheim Archer->Archer – Spain start Mausoleum

Turn 9 – 775 BC – Another archer added to the stack – Eric & Ben have now completely mapped banana island – Reduce research to 30% to get literature next turn

IBT: Discover Literature research Code of Laws due in 14 – Bergen archer->archer – Hittites & Persians start Mausoleum

Turn 10 – 750 BC – Final count in SOD: 12 archers, 4 catapults & 1 settler – 4 more archers due in 2-3 turns – Only just started COL, so a swap ok if team decides – Lighthouse due in 12 – we have a monopoly on literature so, Great Library is viable backup

Not much to say - Spain with ToZ & GW will be tough for our attackers - We probably have enough to start in on her - She's got a pair of wonders going at the present so, her production is going to be limited

I have got it.
I plan to continue with denyd plan and built up and probably attck spain in the middle of my turn set.

pre-turn:
MM cities for more production.

1. 750BC
Oslo: barracks --> archer

2. 710BC
set up

3. 690BC
We now have: 1 settler, 4 cats, and 18 archers in the SOD. declare on spain and move forces.
archer 4/4 vs war 3/3 --> archer 2/4 + 2 slaves

IBT the warriors pass our SOD without attacking.
Ottomans complete ToA.

4. 670BC
4 cats to 0 demage.
archer 4/4 vs spear 3/3 --> spear 2/3
archer 4/4 vs spear 3/3 --> spear 2/4
archer 4/4 vs spear 3/3 --> archer 2/4
archer 4/4 vs spear 2/3 --> spear 3/4
archer 4/4 vs spear 3/4 --> spear 4/5
archer 3/3 vs spear 4/5 --> spear 3/5
archer 4/4 vs spear 3/5 --> spear 2/5
archer 4/4 vs spear 2/4 --> archer 5/5
archer 4/4 vs spear 2/5 --> archer 3/4. got city + 1 slave
lost 6 archers on the first city.
Raze it.
spanish are down to 4 cities.
go to clean up warriors:
archer 4/4 vs war 3/3 --> archer 5/5
archer 4/4 vs war 3/3 --> war 2/4
archer 4/4 vs war 3/3 --> archer 1/4

IBT. lost 3 archers to counter attacks.

5. 650BC
found a city on the ruins of the spanish city.
archer 4/4 vs AC 4/4 --> archer 1/4
archer 5/5 vs AC 1/4 --> archer 5/5 (elite win #1)

IBT
AC 3/4 vs 5/5 archer --> archer 1/5 (#2)
BAD NEWS - kyoto finish the lighthouse --> switch to TGL (in 21)

6. 630BC
archer 4/4 vs war 2/4 --> archer 4/4. cleaned last warrior the went into our land.
move SOD to the mountain pass. the SOD now 4 cats and 7 archers. I will wait there for more forces.

IBT
AC 4/4 vs archer 5/5 --> archer 3/5 (#3) (4 AC down already)
spanish finish MoM.

7. 610BC
move wounded archer to heal.

IBT
archer 3/3 vs archer 4/4 --> win. archer 1/4

8. 590BC
move archer to heal.

IBT.
england are at war with Japan. one of their sword killed a spear in a town.
war 3/3 vs archer 4/4 --> archer 3/4

9 570BC
nothing much - move forces.

10 550BC
nothing much - move forces.

Summery
Started a succesful attack on spain. we replaced one of their sicties with ours.
their AC did relatively minor damege.
Our SOD is back to full health (5 cats + 14 archers).
I suggest waiting a 2 turns before advancing, since there will be 5 more archers and 1 more cat.
CoL in 2 turns. I suggest holding stop researching in hope for TGL.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed2.jpg

MailMan: Excellent execution of the attack. This was going to be a costly war with our best attackers (Off=2) going against fortified defenders behind walls (Def=3.2). You did a nice job absorbing the few AC Spain had. With luck we'll only see one more before we take the city. With Spain completing the Mausoleum and losing the GLight race, she'll now have all 4 cities building either archers or spearmen. We should be able to overpower her with our production. I'd like to keep all of her wonders if possible. With Spain gone, we should be looking for the next target. I'm thinking the Hittites.

One other item of note, the Ottomans are going to be dangerous in this game. Osman is speeding along researching at a rapid pace. He's up Monarchy and once he gets currency & construction (already known by Spain), he'll get is age change bonus. If it's feudalism and he has iron (pikes), he'll get even tougher. It might be in our best interest to conquer all of the non-Ottoman world.

How far away is Japan? Any chance at all of capturing the Lighthouse? I haven't looked at the save since I played, so I don't even know where there is a safe overseas route for galleys.

Renata, can you take this?

I'm not up already, am I? Anyway, no, I really can't take it -- I'm swamped until Sunday, and even then I probably have to take the Celtic Retreat game first unless someone else bails me out.

Sorry. :( I didn't expect to be without my computer for the better part of a week on top of everything else.

Renata

Um, okay then. At the beginning of yesterday, I was up in 0 of 7 of my games. Today, it is 6 out of 7, with the possibility of the the last one later today. Meaning I might not have the turns played immediately.

550 BC (0) - Change a barracks to a catapult, and a catapult to a harbor. We'll be needing galleys for our upcoming assualt on the Great Lighthouse.

530 BC (1) - Position to attack Seville.

IT - Lose a couple archers. Our cats are pretty useless on the defensive bombard, it seems.

510 BC (2) - Lose five archers, kill three spearmen, two warriors, and an archer in the city, and another warrior outside of it, and capture Seville. Next up is Barcelona, as AC are not fun when we have only archers. Also captured seven slaves, which will help our worker situation out a ton.

470 BC (4) - In an example of "Its better to be lucky than good" or whatever, my stupid choice for a suicide galley launching point results in us meeting Ghandi of the Indians, who gives us Currency and 55g for Polytheism. They still lacks Writing, so being isolated has made them way behind.

450 BC (5) - This turn, we meet the Arabs, who have amassed 196g, and are willing to give it up for the knowledge of Polytheism.

430 BC (6) - Bombardment destroys everything in Barcelona, including the SoZ.

410 BC (7) - Capture Barcelona, and the SoZ is indeed gone. Odd that a catapult can do that, but whatever. In cleanup, we get our first leader, on what is probably my 10th or 12th elite win. Rush FP in the newly captured Barcelona, as it is a good spot in my opinion, and we can't do much with an army at this point.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed06_410BC_healfdene.jpg

IT - Well, the Hittites came asking for Polytheism, and when I told them to hit the road, they declared.

390 BC (8) - FP knocks a couple of turns off the GL.

350 BC (10) - Move stack towards Madrid. I decide here to play 5 extra turns, as I really want to see this thing through. I hope no one else minds.

310 BC (12) - Destroy the Colossus and the Palace, but no the Great Wall, so no attack.

290 BC (13) - Once the Great Wall was knocked down, took Madrid.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed06_290BC_madrid.jpg

IT - http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed06_250BC_greatlibrary.jpg

250 BC (15) - Move on Santiago. Spain will give up at least one city for peace. I didn't check this turn, so it might be both. With Madrid's flip risk, I would rather get them off the island (those two archer there are in case it does flip, so we can retake it the same turn).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed06_250BC_santiago.jpg

We now have a few questions that we need to answer as a team. Do we go to Monarchy, which we will get next turn, or do we wait for Republic? I think Republic will be much better for us in this game, as our wars should be swift. I shut off research though, so if we go for Republic, we either go for it full blast or we wait for it to come in via GL. Other than that, I suggest we do no research at all for awhile. Lets accumulate gold. We already have over 1000g, though I forgot to establish embassies with our new friends. More money means more berserks, though they will be later.

We are at war with the Hittites. Do we pursue this war, allow it to continue as a phony war with minimal skirmishing, or go elsewhere? By elsewhere, I mean Japan. They are weak (though they have iron) and I would like to get rid of them before they have samurai. And I would like to get the Great Lighthouse. Having a foothold on that continent will be important for us as well, and Japan seems the best jumping off point. In addition to the extra movement point, the Great Lighthouse allows trading over seas, and though most routes are interrupted by ocean, I think I found a spot that would work for luxury and resource trade, which makes the Great Lighthouse all the more important.

I have begun the construction of some temples, as we need to expand our borders. It is rather pathetic at this point that we have so much land that is outside of our cultural borders. I considered libraries, but temples are cheaper, and I am not planning on doing much research in this game. I am hoping to finish this all off by berserks, as waiting until marines (which was part of the original variant denyd envisioned, I believe), so with the Great Library research is not a priority.

Any ideas, comments, concerns?

Oh, one final note. I am lenient as an SG host. Playing anywhere between 7-15 turns is generally fine with me, as there are sometimes good places at which to stop and discuss, and sometimes good times just to play through as there is a plan to be executed, and it is smoother with one person. Or you might just be having a lot of fun fighting. As there should not be a shortage of that in this game, playing roughly 10 turns but not exactly is fine with me, as long as it is not abused.

Roster (I think - I better check):
Bede <- on deck
Renata
denyd
MailMan
bed_head7
ThERat <- up

looked at the save, here are my comments:

Hittites are rather close, better make peace before they send over units. we might want to get a RoP to be able to take our galleys through their waters to reach those 2 Spanish cities and then Japan.

since it will take some turns to finally take out Spain and we might have flips (madrid is at very high risk), I suggest to not revolt to Republic until we have taken care of them.
thus, go for min research. we will get monarchy and construction next turn, republic is only a matter of time, let's save the money and build up more galleys and archers.

by the way, Japan has lost some towns to Ottomans already, they might be the big foe again.

EDIT: would be nice to get some comments whether we agree on my tactics (bedheads) before I continue my turns today

denyd mentioned the possibility of Ottomans as monster in this game. I am not particularly concerned about it though. Persia is similar in strength, so we can play them off each other.

Great progress bed_head7! Two wonders + FP (shame about the destroyed wonders though)
Looking at the pics I would wait the extra turn in attacking Santiago for the troops to arrive.

Regarding goverments: I think that we should go to monarchy in this game. the main reason isn't the WW rather the maintenance on our many needed units.

regarding research: 0 research till the end of the game sounds right.

Regarding near future wars: I havn't looked at the save yet, but if Japan is close I suggest going after the lighthouse. We should declare few turns before we actually attack in order to to Kyoto and then immediatly sue for peace.

Japan is the nearest to us after the Hittites. However, the Hittites are much closer to us than Japan, which makes it a difficult decision.

I kind of like the idea about declaring a few turns before, in order to quickly get peace. My only concern with that plan is that the flip risk in Kyoto will be so high that we'll want to drive their capital farther off (nearness of capital is a big aspect of flip risk), like to their cities on the other side of the Ottomans. It all depends on how big our armada will be.

Actually, after thinking about it some more, I think hitting the Hittites might be preferable now. The Japanese have iron, and swords versus archers will be ugly, especially since we have to make a landing and all. I may need to open up the save again and think this out further. We probably won't need to worry about this for a few turns, though, so maybe things will get a bit clearer in the near future.

Oh, the destroyed wonders aren't so bad. The only bummer is the Colossus, which would have been nice. Great Wall is useless, as we aren't letting anyone attack our cities, and SoZ is 10s for disbanding every 5 turns, which is nice but definitely not a game breaker.

Nicely done.

Only seen a wonder wrecked once and that was by a barbarian horseman :rolleyes:, never two by catapults.

Plan as writ seems sound.

I didn't know catapults could do that either until MM5, when I had to destroy four wonders and a palace in addition to improvements in a city before I was able to do any damage to units.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed06_50BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
ok, Spain first the Hittites straight away

IT surprise, surprise, we get monarchy, also construction, engineering

1.230BC
the walls of Santiago are made of some special stuff, cats go 2/8, 2 units there only
we take the town
rush 2 galleys so we can revolt and then transport our units over
revolt and we draw only 4 turns :dance:

IT Persia demands literature, no way and they give in

2.210BC
nth much

IT Japan is pretty small now since its beaten badly by Ottoman
Hittite galley attacks and loses against our dingy :lol:

3 190BC
waiting for more galleys to start sailing

4.170BC
zzzzzzzz

IT we become a monarchy

5.150BC
2 galleys send over to Hittites, well they have swords etc, better sail towards Spain and Japan

6.130BC
sailing, cash rush 2 more galleys

7.110BC
looking at it, there is no way we can take Hittite land, and with a galley next to ours it's best we make peace and sign RoP

8. 90BC
2 galleys almost reaching Spanish land

IT a Spanish galley left theit land

9. 70BC
drop 4 units next to Murcia

10.50BC
cat hits and there is only 1 spear there, attack and raze Murcia, one Spanish town left
there might be a settler inside the galley though

remaining Spain
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed650a.jpg

landing site near Kyoto
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed650b.jpg

we can drop our units on hill just next to the town, suggest to go for them immediately after we cleared the Spanish

Got it. Play today.

My CD-Rom drive is dead -- the power supply dying killed it, says the tech. Which sort of begs the question why they didn't check that the last time, doesn't it? I'm so frustrated I'm about to throw the whole computer out a window.

It'll be at least three or four days before they can get someone out here to replace the drive, assuming I can even get time off work at the same time. Please drop me, unless you're willing to put up with two skips in a row.

Very sorry,
Renata

We have six, so I don't really mind.

Load archers and cats onto galley, unload archers and cats next to Salamanca, Shell the city, attack standing spear with veteran archer, one down, attack wounded spear with elite archer, elite archer dead, one more vet attacks, dead spear, capture city,

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_10BC_001.jpg

start harbor so Eric can get an upgrade, then a barracks so Cats en route can upgrade to trebs.

The big news of 30AD

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_30AD_00.jpg

By 150AD there are four archers and four cats in galleys just outside Kyoto and more en route including one treb. Pass the cats on the other galleys through the barracks at Salamanca and upgrade to trebs. The city is defended by six spears and is pop7, so the trebs will be useful, but it is building a settler due in 2 wating a beat till the settler leaves will give us a small advantage

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_Kyoto_00.jpg

As a diversion for the Ottomans it may just be time for a little war with Persia. They are the joint tech leaders so if we want to slow things down that would be just the ticket.

The home island had been building galleys and archers and markets and libraries and old Spain has been building rmples and markets, Roza is a constant thorn and now has a clown till it's market finishes. We learned Republic from the Great Library but I was disinclined to revolt until we finish the Japanese war.

Back to you, denyd, and MailMan is on deck.

Nice prep, Bede. It seems like it is you who is always prepping for invasions.

BTW, here is the reason for the war.....http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh06_150AD_00.jpg

Thanks for that, Bede. That lane was what I tried to describe in my last turnlog.

When there are free walls from the Great Wall, your catapults will try to destroy them, and since the walls don't actually exist, they go right down the list of buildings, from palace to wonders.

When there are free walls from the Great Wall, your catapults will try to destroy them, and since the walls don't actually exist, they go right down the list of buildings, from palace to wonders.

Ooh. Thanks for the tip. I guess that that is another bug to add to the list of things that will never be fixed. Well, I am sure it has already been added, it is just that I never heard about it.

My how things have changed since I last posted (took the weekend off for a COTM11 marathon session). Spain is gone, we are at war with the Hittites (I suppose I should try for peace ASAP) and we are setting up to attack the Japanese. The Ottoman have begin Sun Tzu and their tech pace is beginning to scare me. Berzerks are great,but the Siphai are just as good.

I'll take a look at the save tonight and come back tomorrow with a plan of attack.

(BTW: I got it)

OK, here's the plan.

I'll try to get an ROP with Persia and unload our current seasick archers on the Japanese borders and send the galleys back to reload. So I'll be setting up our reigning Warmonger again. I'll keep all of our cities pumping out archers. I'll start a pre-build (FP if it's still available) for Leo's as Archer->Berserks are expensive. I'd like to settle a couple more cities to allow us to keep our support costs at zero. No research, letting the GL do all the work.

I noticed that all of Japan's cities seem to have an iron source. Both Persia & the Ottoman's are becoming quite powerful. Unfortunately, once we've taken all of Japan's cities, we will have land borders with both of them. I'd suggest going after Persia as Immortals are an easier foe at this point in the game the Siphai will be later.

I'll be playing tonight in about 8 hours, so please chip in with any suggestions.

On a sad note, sorry to see Renata go. This was my first SG with one of the Queens of Civ Fanatics.

I would rather not put off the Japanese war a whole ten turns, so if possible starting sometime in your turn set would be preferable. I think Bede had planned for the war in a few turns, as he said he did not revolt to Republic yet because of the impending war, and we definitely want to get into Republic soon.

I liked MailMan's idea to declare a couple turns earlier. It may get them prepping for war, though I doubt that a bit considering the usual planning skills we see from computer opponents. The big plus is that it would allow us to make peace sooner, and we are only going for Kyoto and the cities right next to it to reduce flip risk.

Something about which we don't need to worry at the moment, but still worth discussion, is the next target. I would prefer Ottomans. Why bother with Immortals or Sipahi at all? Get rid of the Ottomans before Sipahi, and then take Persia once Immortals are a non-factor.

Finally, I am not sure that Renata has left. She said to drop her if two skips in a row was too much, and I said that I don't have a problem with two skips in a row. She hasn't posted since, so I suppose she may have left anyway, but I hope not.

Oh, almost forgot (well, did forget and am now editing in), we built the Forbidden Palace in Barcelona via a MGL back in my turnset.

I'll start on Japan as soon as the extra 2 galleys arrive. Target Kyoto and the next door city.

Is it too early for a Leo's pre-build?

If I get lucky and get a GL, is an army the best option? I suppose I shouldn't load it with archers, so I could just bring in home empty.

If we have nothing good to rush, an empty army is the best use for the leader. And until Pentagon becomes available, we probably won't have anything to rush. The leader can be left there, too, I would think, to be filled with Berserks for a land based army, maybe. It wouldn't be attacked, I would think, so we could use for defense. If you get really lucky and get two leaders, fill the first with archers, maybe, and then rush the Heroic Epic? There are still three techs between us and berserks, I believe, so there will likely be time for another leader at the ready when we get berserks.

Depending on where the prebuild is, it may not be too early to start Leo's.

Once the last set of galleys arrive there should be plenty to take down Kyoto and its neighbor. And I don't think we want to deal with the lack of production in anarchy until we secure the Japanese cities. Putting a settler or two on a boat as soon as we secure the Lighthouse would help fill the Japanese peninsula.

I do not think that Leo's is worth the effort in the variant.
There are two types of upgrading available in this game:
1. archers--> berserkers (one time upgrade)
2. cats upgrades.
I do not thing that risky 600 shields is worth it.
I rather pump out archers at this stage and attack.
Note that when we do able to build berserkers we will not be able to upgrade all archers at once since most of them will probably be away from barracks.

Just a quick note that last night's session was pre-empted by daddy duty. I should be able to get my play in tonight.

Finally, I am not sure that Renata has left. She said to drop her if two skips in a row was too much, and I said that I don't have a problem with two skips in a row. She hasn't posted since, so I suppose she may have left anyway, but I hope not.

I'm still here -- thanks for your patience. :) I should be able to take my next turn in something resembling a timely fashion, God willing and the creek don't rise.

@denyd: A Queen of CivFanatics, eh? I'm flattered. :blush:

Renata

After thinking about it a bit, I'm still going back and forth on Leo's. 600 shields represents a whole lot of archers, true, but how would we ever upgrade them all? Even the archers we have now will cost ~2500g to upgrade. We should have that much by the time Invention shows up (which will probably be a while, given the glacial tech pace), but then again we'll also probably have twice as many archers. And it would be nice to be able to spend a little cash to rush a few critical temples and such without jeopardizing our military.

If we do build it, Barcelona looks to be the best spot. The aqueduct would have to be rushed, but it has better growth/shield potential than any of the other candidates that I can see. It'll still take a while, but we're almost certain not to lose it to a cascade -- the only Wonder under construction is Sun Tzu's by the Ottomans.

Regarding next target after Kyoto -- is there any really compelling reason to take on the toughest civ first? Sipahi can't do much harm to Berserks on ships, AIs suck rocks at sea invasion, and the Ottomans have a whole lot of coastal towns. All else being equal, I'd rather not use archers against pikes if I don't have to. How about the Hittites? They're close enough we can land in force and reinforce easily with minimal shipping, and it'll be quite a while before they have pikes. The negative there is inevitably triggering their golden age -- we could avoid that by attacking the Ottomans now.

One last thing -- we're the only seafaring civ left in the game. No one but Japan can reach our mainland right now that I can see, and once we have the Lighthouse, no one at all will be able to until they have Astronomy. So we can get away with very minimal defense except in the west whereever MPs aren't needed, and none at all once we have Kyoto.

Renata

Completely agree on Ottomans/next target. To clarify what I said earlier, which seems to contradict what Renata just said (well, it does), I meant that we want to hit the Ottomans with Berserks before Sipahi. No way we hit them with archers against pikes, and I did not mean to suggest that.

As for Leo's, I think it is worth it. I am only just in favor of it, but I would still prefer to build it.

The thing is, it could be a while before Invention shows up in the Great Library. My guess is 30 turns at a minimum given how backwards nearly everyone is. The Ottomans are out there alone, essentially. (Are we the only civ with lit?) The Japan war won't take that long -- at least I hope it doesn't. That's why I thought you were suggesting archers against pikes, and why I suggested finding an alternate target first. I suppose the best thing to do would be to evaluate the situation again in ten turns -- by then we should know how long it'll be to capture the Japanese cities we want, and we might have a better idea of how long it'll be until Invention.

Renata

Reading what I said on the last page about the next target, what you just said pretty well summed it up. My intent though was that between the Ottomans and Persians, the Ottomans should come first, after someone suggested that we go Persians then Ottomans.

Things did not go well as we underestimated the military strength of Japan. On the good news front the next player will have Berzerks to play with.

Turn Log 3

Turn 0 – 150 AD – Fix a couple of towns about to riot by hiring a pair of taxmen

IBT: Trondheim archer->archer – Bergen aqueduct->archer – Aarhus galley->galley – Persia now has Feudalism

Turn 1 – 170 AD – The 2 new archers are sent to Stockholm & Birka for MP duty (to allow firing of the taxmen) – Load up another galley and send him on his way – Workers are heading to old Spain to improve the land there

IBT: Feudalism from Great Library researching Invention at 0% - Persia starts Sun Tzu (there’s the cascade) & Ottomans now have Sun Tzu

Turn 2 – 190 BC – Switch Barcelona to Sun Tzu as a Leo’s pre-build still plenty of time to switch without wasting shields – Will emphasize shields around the city – Next galley will arrive next turn so this is the final turn of peace with Japan

IBT: Japanese Galley comes out to greet us – We’ll have our workers evicted from horse island soon – Trondheim archer->archer – Ottoman’s starts Leo’s Workshop

Turn 3 – 210 AD – Moving new galley to pickup a load of archers – workers heading to Spain – Declare war on Japan & unload 12 units next to Kyoto

IBT: Elite Archer loses to Reg Sword (1/3) – Hittites settle on horse island – Bergen archer->archer

Turn 4 – 230 AD – Artillery goes 3/5 at Kyoto – Vet Archer (2/4) kills Reg Spear – Vet Archer (1/4) kills Reg Spear – Vet Archer (4/4) kills Reg Spear – Vet Archer (1/4) kills Vet Spear – Vet Archer loses to Vet Spear (2/5) who promotes – Vet Archer loses to Elite Spear (1/5) and we are out of attackers

IBT: Vet Archer loses to Reg Sword (1/3) – Vet Archer loses to Reg Sword (3/3) – Vet Archer loses to Reg Sword (2/3) – Trondheim archer->archer – Birka library->barracks

Turn 5 – 250 AD – Withdraw surviving units to galleys and head towards Salamanca – After thinking about this attack I realize why we shouldn’t have started so soon – Japan has been at war with the Ottomans for quite a while and probably lost cities in the peace settlement, so those troops are in the capital as well as the other units that were in process when the war ended. I will try to take a couple of remote Japanese cities and reassemble our task force

IBT: Nothing

Turn 6 – 260 AD – Moving troops towards Nagoya and improving Barcelona

IBT: Hittites demand Code of Laws and I decline to give it and he declares war on us – Trondheim archer->archer – Seville temple->trebuchet – Bergen archer->archer

Turn 7 – 270 AD – Move on Adana

IBT: Hittite sword appears – Birka barracks->archer – Stavanger aqueduct->archer – Ottoman start Knights Templar

Turn 8 – 280 AD – Troops at Adana for siege next turn – Upgrade a couple of cats to trebuchet

IBT: Hittites unload 2 by Salamanca – Trondheim archer->archer

Turn 9 – 290 AD – Artillery 0/2 at Adana – Veteran Archer (5/5) kills Reg spear, promotes and Adana auto-razes – Artillery goes 6/8 defending Salamanca – Vet Archer (1/4) kills Vet Sword – Elite Archer (5/5) kills 3-Man Chariot – Vet Archer loses to Vet Sword (1/4) (was red-lined when I started L ) – Vet Archer (4/4) kills Vet Sword

IBT: Japanese & Hittite galleys approach Salamanca – Bergen archer->archer – We will have berserks next turn as now both Persia & Ottoman have Invention – Barcelona can be switched next turn to aqueduct with no shield loss if Leo’s is to be abandoned

300 AD – Switch Seville to barracks and send archers there for upgrade – Other archers heading for Salamanca for upgrade – Load 4 trebuchets to galleys for Hittite horse island city – We have 22 archers (& 1 catapult) that would like to be upgraded, though 3-4 of the archers are elite and should probably be used with the trebs for defense of Salamanca and attacking from land on red-lined opponents – In Spain we seemed to be food rich, so I mined a bunch of tiles

@Renata: You can take your turn now, before mine if you want.

Wow, I certainly misjudged that research rate, didn't I? Three techs in ten turns? No wait, five techs if the Ottomans started KT. How is that even possible? Was I looking at an older save than I thought I was? *checks* Oh, my bad -- we already had Monotheism and Engineering in 150 AD. So three techs in ten turns. Well anyway, I'm not complaining if it gets us our Berserks faster. :)

We're still up Lit on everybody, too bad no one has any spare change to pay us for it.

There's no point to going for Leo's now, right? We'll have all of the big-ticket stuff (i.e. archers) upgraded already by the time we could build it.

@Mailman -- Sure, I'll play! I got it, looking at it now, and I can play tonight. More later.

Renata

You have the option of switching Barcelona (the Leo's pre-build) this turn to an aqueduct without a shield loss.

We should be able to do significant to damage to the Hittites with Berserks on the board. I was in the processing of transferring the bulk of our fleet back to the home island to pick up additional troops when invention came in. You might want to reverse course for a couple to pick up our newly trained berserks in Salamanca. I have a couple of galleys ready to move some trebs & elite archers to the Hittite horse island to make Mursilas pay for his declaration of war.

We should move quickly in chosing our next couple of opponents as the Ottomans are moving at a 4-5 turns per tech and dragging the Persians along with them. I expect gunpowder to be on the board before Renata's turnset is over. At this rate Mailman could be facing Siphai :eek:

We should move quickly in chosing our next couple of opponents as the Ottomans are moving at a 4-5 turns per tech and dragging the Persians along with them. I expect gunpowder to be on the board before Renata's turnset is over. At this rate Mailman could be facing Siphai
Perhaps it is time we should set some wars between the AI?

@ denyd:

I don't think that's likely. (Sipahi soon-ish.) AIs tend to go up the top of the tech tree after Gunpowder, so we should have a while yet.

Renata

@ Mailman:

I was thinking about that. An alliance with Persia vs the Ottomans might be nice -- would keep them from trading with one another and hence probably slow the tech pace considerably. The risk is Persia getting too strong, but we could backstab them promptly after 20 turns and ally with whatever other civs have footholds on their landmass. (Even the Ottomans, if there's anything left of them by then.)

Renata

Actually I was thinking of aligning with Ottomans against Persia & Japan.

That would suck the Japanese defenders away from the capital and the Great Lighthouse and there is a Persian city NE of Salamanca shouting "EAT ME" . We should be able to decimate the Hittites and Japanese (and maybe India) during our Golden Age which is approaching rapidly. A war between the two Middle Easter Powers should slow the tech pace a bit. At least they won't be trading with each other, which does pose a risk of letting the Ottomans run away techwise.

Mmm, I still like Ottomans first. The only reason I suggested anything different was because I was under the impression Mono and Engineering hadn't been researched yet and that therefore Invention would be a while yet and we needed to find something more productive to do with our archers than bash them against Ottoman pikes. Kyoto won't hold up long against Berserks. And the other reasons for taking on the Ottos soonish still hold. I'm not convinced that *after Persia* qualifies as soonish.

Renata

If we go for the Ottomans after Astronomy their Sipahis can't hurt Berzerks on boats and if we have a 'zerk army to land on the victorious 'zerk they won't be picking off the wounded, either.

Best tactics I've found for the 'zerk is raze the coastal cities just as fast as you can, and if you can cut the trade routes to any on-island neighbor you have effectively isolated the opponent.

So use the Ottomans now against Persia. Pitting the two scientific dudes against each other will slow the tech pace considerable.

Ok, played. Will post highlights version only, because it's way past my bedtime.

Golden Age started 320 AD (turn 2). Have mostly been using it to build infrastructure and upgrade existing archers. We still have about six archers left in Seville awaiting upgrade and one keeping the peace in Roza. All other MPs have been pulled -- ok so far with us in the golden age, but we'll need some soon in places and definitely after the golden age ends. Republic might not be a bad idea once the golden age is over, now that we have several cities and markets.

We're still at war with the Hittites -- if we can stay safely at war with them until Kyoto is captured we may be able to get a discount on furs from them. They have nothing else to offer, and won't trade a town. We can make peace at any time if it becomes necessary, though.

We declared on Persia on turn five and bought in the Ottomans with Literature on the following turn.

War status to date:
Razed: Alaca Huyuk (Hittite horse island town), Hubishna (Hittite jungle town north of Salamanca)
Captured: Hamadan and Samaria, on the stepping-stone islands to Japan. Mailman should be able to attack Kyoto within five turns or so, depending on how many risks he takes.
Founded: Alesund, on the horse island. Two more settlers on route, still on home island I think.

We only lost one Berzerk, and killed about a dozen foreign units of all types -- the trebuchets help. Captured a few workers, too. Troops have been sparse -- there were only six archers in and around Salamanca when I got the save; all the rest had to be upgraded and shipped, and they've only just started to arrive in the south of the island chain. If Mailman can take Kyoto, the ship distance will get a whole lot shorter, which will be nice. :)

Only one new tech showed up in my turns: Ottos got Theology.

Have fun, Mailman!

Renata

I haven't really been strict about this, but it is really nice when the name of the SG is used in naming saved games. Ragnar Lodbrok of the Vikings can be confused with other games. bed06 or some variation cannot.

Renata, sounds like some nice turns. Only thing I can think of to say is that luxuries cannot be included in peace deals, so waiting for that to make peace isn't really worth it.

Sorry about the name. Got tired, got lazy. Now have insomnia. Blech.

You're sure luxes can't be added to peace deals? I could've sworn I've done that in the past.

Renata

I am 99.8% sure, but 0.2% does occur every once in a while.

As for file naming, it isn't a big deal if it happens every once and a while. But it has been named Ragnar Lodbrok about a third of the time, so I decided to mention it finally. I didn't mean to be picking on you. :p

I got it......

Just a quick update:
I played 5 turns already:
- We razed 2 hitties towns and captured kyoto with the great lighthouse.
- no losses yet.
- persia has gunpowder and chivilary (we got chivilary from TGL)

Hehe. Persia has Gunpowder and the Ottomans have Theology and they can't trade... :D

Yay Kyoto! *wild applause*

Renata

preturn:
Status check.
F1: most cities build courthoses. only 3 build berserks.
F4: We are at war with: Japan, Hittites and Perisa. Ottomans are allied against persia.
F3: Army: 18 berserks, 7 archers, 14 workers + ~25 slaves, 11 Trebs, 2 settlers and 13 galleys.
both Persia and the Ottomans are still in republic.

Press enter.

1. 410AD
battle at hitties' Kadesh:
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 3/3 --> bsrk 3/4
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 3/3 --> bsrk 2/5. Took Kadesh from hitties

IBT - japan land archer.

2 420AD
abonded Kadesh selling barracks and harbor first.
2 trebs took 2 hp from archer
bsrk 4/4 vs 1/3 archer --> bsrk 4/4

3 430AD
Persia got gunpowder as well as chivilary.
battle at hitties' Ankuwa:
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 4/4 --> bsrk 2/4
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 3/3 --> bsrk 2/4. took city
I dicided to take the cities instead of razing them to give a buffer aroun the invading bsrk from next turn attacks.

IBT we got chivilary.
hitties gather 8 three-man-chariots + 3 swords + 2 spears around the captured city. one three-man-chariots attacked a bsrk but retreated.

4. 440AD
sell barrcks and abonded city. move all bsrk to boats.
unload 4 bsrk + 6 trebs near kyoto. 3 more bsrk are ready to attack from the sea.

5. 450AD
The battle for Kyoto
trebs do 4/6
bsrk 5/5 vs spear 4/5 --> bsrk 3/5
bsrk 5/5 vs spear 3/4 --> bsrk 5/5
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 3/4 --> bsrk 4/5
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 3/4 --> bsrk 4/4. we got Kyoto.
WE GOT THE GREAT LIGHTHOUSE!
IBT - Persia complete Sun Tzu's
Arabia got writing.


6. 460AD
upgraded the last archer.

IBT - Ottomans complete Leo's

7. 470AD
got hitties settler in attack from the sea.
They have founded a city instead of one of the cities I razed.
As a response I razed that city and another:
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 3/3 --> bsrk 4/4
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 3/3 --> bsrk 3/5. capture Harran (has furs).
bsrk 5/5 vs 3mc 4/4 --> bsrk 5/5
bsrk 4/4 vs 3mc 4/4 --> bsrk 2/4. destory newly founded city.

IBT - Persia complete Knights templer.
Hitties land 3 3mc near a poorly defended city.

8. 480AD
bsrk 4/4 vs 3mc 4/4 --> bsrk 3/5
trebs go 2/2 on the other 2 3mc
I was able to tranport a 4/4 bsrk there.
battle for Osaka
trebs go 5/6
bsrk 5/5 vs 3/4 spear --> spear 1/4 (first loss this turn set)
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 2/4 --> bsrk 5/5
bsrk 4/5 vs spear 2/4 --> bsrk 4/5
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 1/4 --> bsrk 2/4. capture Osaka.
Abonded the furs city since the hitties forces were at the gates.
droped a settlet in Japan land.

IBT - bad news: Persia and Ottomans sign peace.
Hitties sunk an empty galley and thier 3mc moved away to heal.
we learn Theology.
Ottomans already have education.

9. 490AD
re-ally Ottomans vs. Persia for ivory and 30g.
trebs do 0/2 on 3mc.
bsrk 4/4 vs 3mc 3/4 --> bsrk 3/4
found new city in ex Japan land.
go for another Hitties city:
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 4/4 --> spear 5/5
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 5/5 --> spear 3/5 - apperntly the city is on a hill...
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 3/3 --> bsrk 5/5
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 3/5 --> spear 1/5
bsrk 4/4 vs spear 1/5 --> bsrk 4/4. capture city. sell improvements.
bsrk 5/5 vs 3mc 4/4 --> bsrk 2/5

IBT persia land forces near kyoto

10 500AD
trebs go 3/3 vs 4/4 imprtal
5/5 bsrk vs 4/4 longbow --> 5/5 bsrk
5/5 bsrk vs 1/4 imprtal --> 4/5 bsrk
raze hitties city.
land forces near one of Persia cities:
Battle for Bactra (persia):
5/5 bsrk vs 3/3 pike --> 4/5 bsrk
4/4 bsrk vs 3/3 pike --> 1/4 bsrk
4/4 bsrk vs 4/4 bow --> 4/4 bsrk. capture Bactra.
Battle for Hattusha (Hitties):
4/4 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 2/4 bsrk
4/4 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 1/4 bsrk
4/4 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 2/4 bsrk. destory galley and capture Hattusha.

Summery:
razed 5 hitties cities (1 more captured to be razed next turn). the hitties are left with only 4 cities (but a lot of forces).
capture 2 Japan cities founded one more over there.
capture 1 Persian city to be razed next turn.
lost 4 beserks (3 on a hilled city) and one galley.
Army: 28 beserks, 11 trebs, 13 galleys, 7 workers (joined a few) 1 settler.
We captured the great lighthouse.
India and arabia are VERY far behind. they will not be a problem.


In this turnset I held captures cities for one turn before razing them.
It has the following pluses:
1. It create a buffer over the landed beserk that slow units can not pass and only near fast unit can attack.
2. The improvment in the city can be sold (the slaves created by razing strait away are not needed)
3. we can sell improvemnts for money before abondaning the city.

Notes to next player:
Abondand the persian and the hitties cities next turn after selling improvements.
The Hitties city Tyrana can be probably taken next turn. there is 4 healty beserks and few wounded ones at range.
After that I suggest signing peace with them and settle a city next to the furs.
The golden age is about to be over.

The Hittes land:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed7_500AD2.jpg

Wider view of the north:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed7_500AD1.jpg

the SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Ragnar_Lodbrok_of_the_Vikings,500_AD.SAV)

Very nice play by Renata & MailMan

I hate to raze cities, but the Berzerks defense is such that is quite often the best option.

I'm thinking we take Tyrana and then sign peace. If we sign peace after Tyrana is taken, we should be able to keep Hatusha which would be a nice base for future use against the inland Hittite cities.

As for Japan, let's grab Nagoya and raze/resettle Yokohama. Two more cities me more troop support.

If Persepolis is coastal (I can't tell from the map), we should consider taking that city & Gordium and then signing peace (keeping Bactra). If not then just raze Bactra & Gordium and then go for peace. It's time for us to turn our attention to the Ottomans. Istanbul is not coastal, but we should be able to raze the other Ottoman cities. If we raze Tokyo and properly place a city, we should have a passage from Persia to the Ottoman coast that won't require circling Japan's old core.

India & the Arabs are future Berserk fodder.

There is another course we could follow. Ignore the Ottomans and go for the easy pickings of Japan, Hittites, India & Arabs. That might be enough land to push us past the domination limit (if that is the intended goal).

We can't go against the Ottomans for about another fifteen to twenty turns -- they broke the alliance and Mailman re-signed it near the end of his turns. Of course, they may well break it again by the time we'd be ready to attack, anyway.

The Hittites sure fell easily, didn't they? Berserks against spears is just no contest. Taking out over half a civ with a half-dozen attacking units is unreal. I don't know if you noticed, MailMan, but I wasn't even setting you up to go after them -- I'd started gathering galleys and units near the northern sea route in preparation to shift the jump-off point up there. :)

I love our current gpt -- that's more than half again what I left you with. Glad to see the infrastructure and the extra towns/cities are paying off.

Tech rate has definitely slowed down. Good to see. Ottomans will get Astronomy and Gunpowder, no doubt, but that we can deal with. (Especially if their salt turns out to be coastal. ;) ) Did anyone else notice the Ottos have zero native lux? Interesting, eh?

Renata

Few notes:

- There is a proplem in keeping cities: Culture flips. I do not think it is worth the effort.

- I suggest staying in Monarchy and play an almost always war.

- The current gpt will be much lower after the golden age is over.
We can probably use it to rush trebs / buildings in the new continents.

- I do not think that Persia has saltpeper. I did not observed any muskets.

- The hitties still posses a threat, they have many units running around. but if we leave them with only 3 inland cities we can easily take them on the next round.

- The current gpt will be much lower after the golden age is over.
We can probably use it to rush trebs / buildings in the new continents.

Exactly the reason I was relieved to see your final gpt. Usable luxes seem to be a bit scarce. We can get at the furs, but the Ottomans have none and I don't think Japan does, either. Does Persia? Surely there must be luxes *somewhere* on that landmass. When our total commerce drops at the end of the golden age, so will our happiness, so we may need to increase the lux slider in addition to having less gross commerce to begin with. That extra income may turn out to make a big difference in keeping us solvent until we get some more luxes.

I do not think that Persia has saltpeper. I did not observed any muskets.

Nice to know.

The hitties still posses a threat, they have many units running around. but if we leave them with only 3 inland cities we can easily take them on the next round.

I was thinking about that earlier with respect to the other civs as well. Reduced to just a few cities, unit support will be pretty low. And none of the civs have any money. If we can crank out enough settlers to prevent significant resettlement, we may force them into disbands and/or building losses over the period of the peace treaty. So we may wind up facing fewer and worse units than they have now. I'm not sure, though, I haven't done the math. At the very least, we'll be stopping their research progress dead in its tracks.

Renata

Conquest and domination are both fine with me. This is turning out easier than I thought if we are already discussing victory condition, isn't it?

Lots of good suggestions, so I think I've got the plan covered. I'll get started on the save today, probably finish up in around 24h.

I remember reading somewhere that units defending against marines do NOT recieve the bonus for being in a city/metro. Has anyone read this from a source they consider reputable, and does it apply to all amphibious units?

If so, attacking Persepolis is a viable plan. If not, we'll have to wait for treb support (icky, because we then have to escort the trebs over land using berserks) or for huge number superiority, so that the losses will be worth it in the end. And if we were to attack a size 12 with veteran pikes defending, we'd probably win about 55% of battles. Losing that many 70s units to 30s units will hurt a lot if we don't capture it. Which means attacking Persepolis will have to wait awhile, and we'll have to abandon Bactra and whatever other city we were considering attacking.

I'm pretty sure there is no "ignore city/metro" thingie for amphibious units, but I'm not positive. Would it be in the editor?

Renata

I'll check the editor. That sort of "ignore city/metro" thing didn't make sense to me, but I remember that I had some trust in the person who said it, so I noted it as something to keep in mind.

500 AD (0) - Lots of active units left for some reason. Things look good, but it is great if you can keep cities building Berserks doing 10spt, 14spt, or 18spt when possible, so as to minimize waste.

510 AD (1) - Capture Tyrana. Make peace with the Hittites and get Alalah, a newly founded city, in the peace. Hattusha has too high a flip risk to keep, so we abandon. Persepolis, a city defended by veteran pikes, will have to wait until we can bombard (large treb stack defended by berserks, I guess) which is not all that viable, or until we have superior numbers andn can take the city, making the losses we will suffer worth it.

At this point I stop and check in to make sure that cities retain their defensive bonus.

Come back later, and up lux to 30% to avert disorder next turn when we end the Golden Age.

520 AD (2) - Capture Nagasaki. Okay, I was off by a turn. Oops.

530 AD (3) - I screwed something up, and we got some disorders. Too bad the GA ended. I had everything MMed so nicely.

At this point, keeping a log lost its lustre. Well, berserks are awesome. I lost three in battle, and three in a flip, plus a leader. We have a few cities with high flip risk, but generally I've just been going with it. If it flips, we almost certainly have a berserk in range to take it back. It was just unfortunate that the flip occured while units were there. You see, the plan was to create a berserk army limited to the land on Persian-Ottoman lands. It'll make getting a few cities there a lot easier, and we shouldn't have any problems with Inca/India when the time comes.

So anyway, that plan sort of failed after losing the berserks and leader. Of course, next turn (the last one I played) we got another leader with three berserks ready to join, so no big deal. This game has turned out to be surprisingly easy, and I doubt the game will make it back to me. We have 25% land and 4something% pop, but I think conquest will be easier. The reason being that I have held onto cities generally, but if a unit ever showed up I just abandoned it. No reason to waste berserks defending useless cities on islands.

We are running 40% lux, for a couple reasons. It required less effort than doing 30% and hiring a few key specialists. And, we have nothing to do with our money, other than rush stuff. And I almost never rush stuff, except for in certain very special cases. If only dmanakho was here to spend some money for us. We do have furs hooked up now (which may mean lux is actually 10% lower, but I don't think so. Instead, I just fired the few specialists we had), and silks will come as soon as we rush a harbor, but I didn't want to rush one in a city that might flip. Oh, there is probably resistance up there. Oops (sorry, I am tired, having trouble putting thoughts together).

Anyway, nothing terribly important to say. Keep on truckin'. And I think a berserk army on land, no matter how strange it seems, will actually be pretty great for taking out cities. Phew. Nighty night.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed06_600AD_islandpersia.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed06_600AD_northpersia.jpg

Look at all the purple, or more notably, how little green of both shades.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed06_600AD_minimap.jpg

though we haven't seen a roster in a while I figured I am up ;)

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed06_680AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
we have a lot of money and all we want is a conquest I'd say, no point keeping all those towns later on

IT a galley promotes being attacked

1. 610AD
tak our Sastuma losing a zerk, Japan is OCC

2. 620AD
land 6 zerks next to Arabela

IT no counters

3. 630AD
attack, defeat 3 units and Persia is down to 2 cities, take out a Persian settler pair
zerk army approaches Kagoshima
btw we got gunpowder and Ottoman have no salt :lol:, so lucky
start to attack Persepolis and take out 2 units, not losing a single one

IT as suspected the Japanese drop a settler pair and Persia has one settler pair leaving Persepolis

4 640AD
take out the Persian settler pair

5 .650AD
take out Kagoshima, but there is that new Japanese town left
capture Persepolis

IT Ottoman knights attack Pasergarda and almost take it
a Persian archer land next to Koto

6.660AD
attack Pasergadea
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed6660.jpg

and
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed6660b.jpg

time to prepare the war on Ottoman, they have 10 towns

7. 670AD
moving units in position, we need to attack as many town as possible

8. 680AD
realise we have this fur deal with Ottoman for another 10 turns

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed6680b.jpg

so I stop here to discuss what we should do next
what was it used for and would it be ok to break it?
Our galleys would be in position to attack 3 towns next turn, left things unmoved this turn and attached save for you to check

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed6680.jpg

Wow, what a fast progress.
I did not tought that DG game with limited unit types would be such a breeze.
I am basically talking about this game in past tense since I think this game is in the bag, and I do not expect to see my turn again.

what was it used for and would it be ok to break it?
There is no need now for reputation. I suggest attacking.

Oh wow, I completely forgot to mention that one. Very sorry. The Ottomans demanded it the very same turn that we got it hooked up to our trade network (or maybe the turn right after, I can't remember now). Feel free to punish them for that. I would have refused if not for the fact that it would put Kyoto in danger, and I try not to be needlessly defiant.

ok then, I will play to turn 10, but thinking about it, we might want to wait until all boats are in position to strike as much as we can. Ottoman has knights that might be quite dangerous

Sounds good to me.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed06_700AD.SAV)

continued:
we have to be prepared to abandon cities on the northern Island once we attack Ottoman since they have knights
but we should be able to take out 4 of their cities in the first wave of strikes
prepare for that
I also use quite some money to rush more units, it's striking now or never

9. 690AD
move in more zerks and we now have 33 zerks and 1 zerk army ready to strike wthin the next turns

10.1350AD
start attack after declaring war on Ottoman
1st target Iznik: after beating 3 pikes and 1 knight without losses
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed6700a.jpg
and it reveals their iron source

next target Tokyo: defeat a pike and spear
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed6700b.jpg
use a slave as buffer in case knights will approach

3rd target Edo:
beat 4 units and get 2 losses, but town still has units
one galley goes back to pick another zerk

we might need to abandon Persepolis and Pasargadae. next player please do not forget that we should do that once
a knight could reach those towns in 1 turn, which is not the case this turn !!!
I am confident that if we strike fast we might be able to keep them. Do not forget to cash rush zerks in those towns close by
next turn we can strike Izmit and army can approach Edrine (should pillage the road connection to our side)
now that iron is disconnected, they can't build knights for the time being
Istanbul and Edrine are the key towns, we might suffer losses, but we must take them all out
we have to land zerks ultimately for a land strike supported by army. do not hesitate, we are far superior in numbers now
try and attack Edo next turn again, not many units are left in there
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed6700c.jpg

I think Bede is next, take them out, we can do it!!!

Bede is indeed next, followed by denyd, then Renata. I am a little disappointed. I think this will be the first bed game in C3C to be finished by someone other than me. 01, 02, and 04 (03 was in RaR) all finished with me in the hotseat, and there is a distinct possibility that 05 will end with me as well. But it doesn't look like that is going to happen here, and I would be surprised if it did.

hey, unless we go for domination, there is still some way to go to eliminate the rest. Hittites have quite a few towns inland. and when I establish the embassy with Arabs, they had something like 10 units in their capital
:eek:

Oh my! That probably means we'll need, like, 11-12 berserks to take the Arab capital.

Seriously, you think there is a possibility of this game lasting 40 more turns?

could be due to the fact that we have to cover a huge distance to bring all our forces back once we hammered Ottomans

Finish the Turk. Arabs next, or Hittites?

Got it.

If we get a leader, go for the Hittites and build an army, ship the army over and three berserks (separately, of course) and go wild. If no leader, go for Inca I think, as having an army will help us out against the Hittites, but we don't need one for the anyone else.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/OttomanRump.jpg

At 800AD this is what remains of the Ottomans.

Edo fell as soon as the 'zerk got there from the other coast, but Ottoman knights retook it twice before I could load out the victor and abandon, then the counterclockwise moving ships got there and we took it back again and moved the boatloads onto the mountain for the march on Istanbul.

Tokyo flipped back to them three times and is still in their hands. Used the settler to found Tromso on the former site of Erdrine as a bolt hole for the troops.

Parked a galley at the site of Izmit and captured every Ottoman worker that appeared to reconnect the iron....I think he's out of road builders so the zerk can climb back in his longship and head for Antalya.

The attack wave went more or less as planned, right up the coast, taking and razing. Once the Ottomans were cut off from iron and any trading there were only longbows counterattacking and their last knight was killed at the Battle for Edo, I think.

The assault on Erdrine produced a leader who went to Osaka to form an army and get on a boat. The new army and supporting Berzerks are now heading south to initiate the Hittite campaign. They can join up with the northbound boats out of Santiago right about Hamadan or in the sea lane and there will be a nice sized force on the Hittite island.

Tokyo will fall back to our hands on the first turn and Istanbul within the next three to five or so, once the army is fully healed and everybody joins up leaving Osman with a single city on an island and I don't think he has a navy left.

Discovered anew that 'zerks can heal on boats in neutral or home waters so kept the wounded offshore and moving forward.

Just kept spitting out Berserkers and sending them north. Seville as in a riotous mood so it now has a single MP. Everyone else is pretty jolly.

The rest of the wolrd has just barely entered the Middle Ages and no one knows Feudalism yet. Gandhi lacks iron, everyone else appears well supplied.

Looks to me like riflemen will not be a factor.....

Should denyd be up now, or are we going with the old roster (in which case it would be me)?

Renata

Since we skipped you last time Renata, go ahead and take it. I'll finish up COTM11 tonight and be ready when you're done.

:hatsoff: to the weekend players as I just read about your heroic deeds in destroying the evil Persian & Japanese empires. We got a couple of resource distribution breaks, but aside from that, the Berserks have just overpowered everone on the planet. It would be nice to finish off India before the Jumbos are on the map (and the Arabs before Ansars) as fighting an AI during their GA is not that easy, but then again the mighty Vikings laugh at the face of hardship.

All right, I have it. It'll probably take me a couple of days, though.

Renata

wait a minute, wait a minute...what's happening? can you all recognize that there is some discrepancy between mine and Bede's map. While I razed Tokyo, Bede miraculously got it back from scratch. :confused:
Did I attach a save just before attacking Tokyo? How did this happen?

I just checked the save and there is a Tokyo on the save and this is the 770 AD save, but I agree the final picture shows rubble where Tokyo was. The picture is dated 700 AD, so I have to think that you posted the wrong save.

so I have to think that you posted the wrong save.I think I saved before razing Tokyo :sad: well, well...senile

And I didn't even notice :sad: :lol:

I think we're all senile. You should have seen my turns -- major weed. Or it may have been the cold medication. ;)

Anyway, my turnset is done, but I ran out of time to upload before heading out to work this morning, so it'll be another 12 hours or so.

Mini-status report:
Ottomans are gone.
Found an eastern sea passage to India, so have started in there. Razed three major towns, including Delhi. Spears don't hold up very well against 'zerks, do they?
Got another leader, which is now part of an army on the Hittite island. The empty army that was left me is still in transit to India, can join the forces there in another couple of turns.
I had to abandon the furs town (and outright lost its neighbor after misjudging the ability of Hittite units to reach it) -- started in against the Hittites too soon, really. But no major harm done. Army-supported invasion forces are just landing in the north of the island, and a decent number of the Hittites' spare offensive units have been taken out.

It really was rather sloppy turns, but that just means we all get to play with the 'zerks a few turns longer. :)

Renata

Save attached below. Have fun, denyd -- for all the :smoke: in my turns you should still be set up to do some heavy damage. Enjoy. :)

Renata

screenie???? want to see the new passage and what's up in the east

Allrighty.

The route to India. Most of the units from Ottoman-land went thataway.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/passagetoindia.jpg

The result, so far:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/indiamap.jpg

Don't look at this one.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/whoops.jpg

This one's ok, though. Hittite re-invasion pending.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hattusasarmy.jpg

Renata

thanks Renata, I doubt that this game will come back to me, a few more towns to raze. With armies at hand we should have no issue to accomplish that. :goodjob:

I got it and played a couple of turns. Lahore is now ours and will be razed once the catapults are upgraded and the couple of Berserks heal. I've loaded the second army and am moving forward on the balance of India. I'll probably be able to finish them off. On the Hittite front good progress in killing swords & spears but no cities taken/razed yet. They have a lot of units to kill.

I thought about turning research on to head for Astronomy for Caravels, but the game will be over before they are of use. I should be able to finish off the Hittites and Indians and leave the Arabs for the next player.

Turn Log 4

Turn 0 – 900 AD – Set the resisting cities to starvation mode – wake a couple of units to get another boatload of Berserks to the front – Hurry along one Berserk (114g)

IBT: Gandhi wants to talk, but says nothing of interest – Berserk wounded by Indian Archer – India is still sending out settlers - Barcelona berserk->berserk – Seville market->berserk – Bergen berserk->berserk – Aarhus granary->galley

Turn 1 – 910 AD – Battles in India: Cats & treb got 1 for 4 – Vet Berserk (3/4) kills Vet Archer – Vet Berserk (2/4) kills Vet Spear & captures 2 slaves – Galley (3/3) sinks Indian Galley – Elite Berserk (5/5) kills Vet Spear – Battles in Hittites: Berserk Army (11/13) kills Vet Spear – Vet Berserk (2/4) kills Vet Spear – Elite Berserk (5/5) kills Reg Spear

IBT: 2 Berserks killed by Indian counterattack

Turn 2 – 920 AD – Indian battles: Cats & Trebs go 1 for 1 – Elite Berserk (1/5) kills Vet Spear – Vet Berserk (4/4) kills Reg Spear – Vet Berserk (4/4) kills Reg Spear and Lahore is captured – Move everyone to Lahore for upgrades and healing since it has a barracks – Berserk army is loaded in Lahore – Hittite battles: Vet Berserk loses to Vet Sword (2/4) – Vet Berserk (2/5) kills Vet Sword and promotes – Elite Berserk (3/5) kills Vet Spear – Wounded Vet Berserk dies attacking wounded Vet Sword (2/5) – Berserk Army (7/13) kills 2 Vet Spears – Vet Berserk (3/4) kills Reg Spear – Vet Berserk (1/4) kills Reg Spear – Vet Berserk loses to Reg Spear (1/3) – Vet Berserk loses to Reg Sword (1/3) – Reg Berserk (3/4) kills Reg Sword and promotes – Vet Berserk (2/5) kills 3M Chariot and promotes – Hurry a quartet of Berserks

IBT: Lose an exposed Berserk – Trondheim berserk->berserk – Roza berserk->berserk – Birka berserk->berserk – Stavanger berserk->berserk

Turn 3 – 930 AD – Indian battles: Vet Galley (2/4) sinks Indian Galley – Vet Berserk loses to Vet Spear (2/4) – Vet Berserk (1/4) kills Reg Spear – Elite Berserk (3/5) kills Vet Spear and Baghdad is captured – Vet Berserk (4/4) kills Reg Archer – 4 Cats upgraded to trebs – Hittite battles: Vet Berserk (4/4) kills Reg Spear – Vet Berserk (3/4) kills Vet Spear – Vet Berserk (3/4) kills Vet Spear – Vet Berserk (2/4) kills Vet Sword – Vet Berserk (2/4) kills Vet Sword and Hattusas is captured – Vet Berserk (3/4) kills Vet Sword – Sell off walls in Hattusas and abandon city

IBT: Sign ROP with Arabs to avoid having 4 galleys sent back to beginning of trek – Lose a pair of exposed Berserks and 4 slaves set out as cannon fodder for the Hittites – India pillages Arab iron and Arab sword kills Indian spear

Turn 4 – 940 AD – Indian wars: Vet Berserk loses to Vet Archer (1/4) – Vet Berserk (3/4) kills Vet Horseman – Elite Berserk (3/5) kills Vet Spear – Vet Berserk (2/5) kills Vet Spear and promotes – Vet Berserk loses to Vet Spear (3/4) – Vet Berserk (5/5) kills Vet Spear and promotes – Elite Berserk (1/5) kills Vet Spear – Elite Berserk (5/5) kills Vet Horseman – Elite Berserk (5/5) kills Vet Horseman and Bombay is captured – Sell off barracks, market & harbor and abandon Bombay – By Salamanca Berserk kills 3-Man Chariot – Hittite battles: Vet Berserk (4/4) kills Vet Spear – Vet Berserk (1/4) kills Vet Spear and Karhuyuk is captured – sell Barracks & market and abandon city – Vet Berserk (5/5) kill 3MC and promotes – Vet Berserk loses to Vet 3MC (2/5) who promotes – Vet Berserk (1/4) kills Elite 3MC – Vet Berserk (2/4) chases 3MC – Berserk (11/13) kills Vet Sword – Abandon Lahore

IBT: Lose 2 exposed red-lined Berserks – Molde aqueduct (?) -> berserk – Stockholm temple->berserk

Turn 5 – 950 AD – Indian battles: Elite Berserk (3/5) kills Vet Spear – Elite Berserk (5/5) kills Vet Spear – Elite Berserk loses to Vet Spear (1/4) – Wounded Elite Berserk (2/5) kills Vet Archer – Wounded Elite Berserk loses to Wounded Vet Spear who promotes (2/5) – Wounded Elite Berserk (1/5) kills Wounded Elite Spear and Bangalore is taken and the Indians are gone – Hittite battles: Veteran Berserk (4/5) kills Vet Spear and promotes – Elite Berserk (3/5) kills Vet Spear and razes Yalburt – Hurry 6 Berserks

IBT: Madrid berserk->berserk – Trondheim berserk->berserk – Barcelona berserk->berserk – Bergen berserk->berserk – Oslo berserk->berserk

Turn 6 – 960 AD – Trade Republic to Arabs for 37g + 13gpt – No attacks just positioning troops

IBT: Aarhus galley->barracks

Turn 7 – 970 AD – Berserk Army (8/13) kills 2 pikes – Vet Berserk loses to Vet Pike (1/4) – Vet Berserk (2/4) kills vet pike and Ugarit is captured – Elite Berserk (5/5) kills Vet Spear – Elite Berserk (4/5) kills Vet Spear and Samuha auto-razes – Near Salamanca Elite Berserk (5/5) kills Elite 3MC – Sell off all Bangalore improvements and abandon city

IBT: Nothing

Turn 8 – 980 AD – Vet Berserk (1/4) kills Vet Spear – Vet Berserk (3/4) kills Vet Spear and Katna auto-razes – Vet Berserk (4/4) kills Vet Spear and Kultepe auto-razes – Hurry a trio of berserks

IBT: Turn down Mursilis peace offering (everything he has) – Lose an exposed Berserk – Trondheim berserk->berserk – Bergen berserk->berserk – Copenhagen berserk->berserk – Stavanger berserk->berserk – Alesund galley->Pentagon :lol:

Turn 9 – 990 AD – Galley (3/4) sinks Hittite galley

IBT: Arabs found a city behind my blockade - Lose 3 Berserk to attacks – Seville berserk->berserk

Turn 10 – 1000 AD – Vet Berserk (3/4) kills Vet Spear – Vet Berserk (2/4) kills Vet Sword – Vet Berserk (5/5) kills Vet MDI, promotes and razes Alalah – Elite Berserk (4/5) kills Vet Sword – Vet Berserk kills Vet MDI – Abandon Ugarit – Vet Berserk loses to Vet Pike (3/4) – Vet Berserk (2/4) kills Vet Pike – Vet Berserk (4/4) kills Vet Pike – Vet Berserk loses to Vet Pike (1/4) – Regular galley (2/3) sinks Elite Galley – Abandon Bangalore

I came up 2 Berserks short of taking the final Hittite city with and Army on the way – I’ve set up a couple of boatloads for each island city of the Arabs. This should be over in about 3-4 turns

Bring us home, MailMan! Make sure to save right before the finish.

Geez, this won't even make it to ten pages.

Got it. will play tommorow.
It seems to be one of the easiest DG games I have encountered.

Nice job keeping the troops on the move, denyd. :thumbsup:

Renata

preturn
status check:
2 rivals left: hitties with 1 city (probably taken whitin 2 turns) and the arabs. We are at peace with the arabs + ROP (8 cities).
I will get rid of that phony ROP this pre-turn:

Declare war on arabs and attack:
5/5 bsrk vs 3/3 spear (on hill) --> 1/5 bsrk
4/5 bsrk vs 3/3 spear (on hill) --> 1/5 bsrk. city #1 down
5/5 bsrk vs 5/5 spear --> 3/5 bsrk
5/5 bsrk vs 4/4 sword --> 1/4 sword
5/5 bsrk vs 3/3 spear --> 5/5 bsrk
5/5 bsrk vs 4/4 archer --> 3/5 bsrk + leader. not enough forces around to take city.
take leader to city #1 and create an army.
5/5 bsrk vs 4/4 spear (on hill) --> 3/5 bsrk
5/5 bsrk vs 4/4 archer (on hill) --> 3/4 bsrk. took city #2
4/4 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 4/4 spear
4/4 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 3/5 spear. that a mighty spear
5/5 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 5/5 bsrk
4/4 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 2/4 bsrk
4/4 bsrk vs 3/5 spear --> 3/4 bsrk
4/4 bsrk vs 4/4 archer --> 4/4 bsrk. took city #3.
4/4 bsrk vs 3/3 spear (on hill) --> 2/4 bsrk
4/4 bsrk vs 3/3 spear (on hill) --> 3/4 bsrk. took city #4

rushed 1 bsrk.

IBT. hitties kill 2 bsrk. they have lots of swords.
The arrabs founded a city in former india.
That attack will probably take a turn or too more than I thought.

1. 1010AD
arabs:
5/5 bsrk vs 3/4 sword --> 4/5 bsrk
4/5 bsrk vs 3/3 spear --> 2/5 bsrk
4/5 bsrk vs 4/4 archer --> 3/5 bsrk. took city #5.
12/12 army vs 4/4 spear --> 12/13 army
12/13 army vs 4/4 spear (on mountain) --> 12/13 army
5/5 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 2/5 bsrk
5/5 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 3/5 bsrk
5/5 bsrk vs 3/3 spear --> 4/5 bsrk
5/5 bsrk vs 4/4 archer --> 3/5 bsrk + 3 slaves. took city #6
bring army to main arab land and load it
12/13 army vs 4/4 spear --> 8/13 army
3/5 bsrk vs 1/4 archer --> 3/5 bsrk


hitties:
4/4 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 2/4 bsrk
13/13 bsrk army vs 4/4 spear --> 13/13 army
4/5 bsrk vs 4/4 sword --> 3/5 bsrk
4/4 bsrk vs 4/4 sword --> 4/5 bsrk


IBT - the arrabs move two archers out of their about to be conquered capital

2. 1020 AD
arabs:
4/5 bsrk vs 3/3 spear (on hill) --> 3/5 bsrk
2/5 bsrk vs 4/4 archer (on hill) --> 1/5 bsrk. took a chance here but I wanted to destroy the newly founded city this turn. took city #7.
12/13 army vs 4/4 spear --> 9/13 army
8/13 army vs 4/4 spear --> 7/13 army
7/13 army vs 4/4 spear --> 5/13 army
3/4 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 3/4 bsrk. took capital (#8).
4/4 bsrk vs 4/4 spear --> 2/4 spear
3/5 bsrk vs 3/3 spear --> 2/3 spear
2/5 bsrk vs 2/4 spear --> 3/5 spear
4/4 bsrk vs 3/5 spear --> 3/4 bsrk

The arabs are no more!!

hitties:
13/13 army vs 4/4 pike --> 13/13 army
11/13 army vs 4/4 pike --> 13/13 army.

The hitties are no more!! (I realy tought they had more forces over there.)


WE WON BY CONQUEST !!! :king:
time spent: 31 hours
Score: 8033
turn: 218.

Wow, and it is over like that. Quite well played, all of you. Amazing how little a challenge we had, though the original conquest by archers was not such easy going, and it also probably made things a lot easier come berserks because those extra cities made us so much more productive.

Yep. Minimal AI contact helped a lot, too, I think. Did Spain ever meet anyone besides us? A more tightly-connected archipelago might've been a different story -- we'd have had to play defense, for one, which would've slowed things down enormously. And of course the Arab/India territory rather stunk, from what I saw of it.

The berzerks really are amazing units, though.

Thanks for the game, bed_head, and thanks to everyone else for making things so easy for me every time I got the game. :)

Renata

Very nice finish MM :hatsoff:

Very enjoyable game that really showed how powerful Berserks can be on an islands game. They'd probably have to be escorted by pikes on a continents/panagea game.

:hatsoff: to all.

Well played throughout.

Berzerks are just plain powerful when you have enough boats to move them around.


You all gotta see this.

:rotfl: The announcement on the interturn:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bh61020IT.jpg

Isn't that kinda like the kid saying to his only sibling, "You're my favorite sister!"? Just a bit lacking in sincerity. :)

Renata

:goodjob: fast and easy, and a great team