rat3 wasn't exactly a success, we go for a replay now with Greeks

difficulty still DG. If we succeed, deity could be an option next time.

This game is sort of semi-defiant. Rules

1. We may never initiate discussions with AI or start trading. Only if the AI starts to open the dialog box, are we allowed to start trading and haggling.

2. We have the option to boot the AI off our territory, it is not a must, but can be used. However, this means strictly booting only without starting negotiations.

3. We are not allowed to purposely enter enemy territory to get booted in order to start negotiations. If we enter enemy territory and get the boot, we will NOT start negotiations

4. We will never give in to AI demands, but are allowed to make peace, even if it costs us some gold.

5. We are not allowed to use mapstat or open dialog box to check AI's resources etc. I trust members to respect that rules.

6. No embassies established by us, spies are wanted for steals later on

7. Alliances or RoP, trade embargos are allowed.

8. The usual house rules apply, reputation is golden etc.


World size = standard
Pangaea = 60% ocean
Barbs = sendentary
Climate, Temperature, Age = Random
Civ = scientific, but to be decided
Opponents = Random
SGL and cultural linked starts = off
AI aggression = Normal


The Roster
The Rat
plarq
Kaiser_Berger
elmarae
dl123654

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Rat4_3000BC.SAV)



1.4000BC
see that there is a fish south on what looks like an ocean move south to discover its a lake with a cow
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/rat044000.jpg

2.3950BC
found Athens and Barb camp gives us a map, see some dyes nearby
start hoplite
since we have alphabet go for writing at max

7.3650BC
finished mine the BG

8.3600BC
start to irrigate the cow

9.3550BC
warrior next for MP, hoplite goes for search

12.3400BC
settler next, reduce lux

14.3300BC
Athens grows, up lux

15.3250BC
spot a Barb, that means also another Civ
now spot dark red border in west

19.3050BC
get settler at same time as growth in Athens, start another warrior
settler goes south to claim dyes

20.3000BCAD
settler in place to settle, I think we have a 4 turn settler factory here, looking good
suggest to start early war with that dark red Civ with our hoplite we can pillage them to death
hoplite got attacked by Barb, we can rest or say hello first

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/rat043000.jpg

The rules still have the problem from Rat03. There is NO provision to let you initiate a war. Do you really want to have a war from a leave or declare war destroying your RoP rep at a minimum?

The rules still have the problem from Rat03. There is NO provision to let you initiate a war. Do you really want to have a war from a leave or declare war destroying your RoP rep at a minimum? quite true, but that's the silent issue, maybe we could have the following rule:

declare war by:
either boot AI, attack AI from outside their territory or open diplo screen for the purpose of declaring war only in order to keep reputation

any comments?

:goodjob: on the turn set.

I can agree to open diplo screen to declare war as a last resort.

I think leaving the option to open diplo only for war declarations is a good idea. This start is superb, an easy 4-turn factoryfor certain.

ok, so we agree on the diplo option.

by the way, i did not roll 1000 starts, it was the 2nd, the 1st being in the midst of a huge desert with nth else.
only moving southwest did I realise what great land we have

and by the way, I would keep research at max as waht I did, after writing I would try for the philo gamble

@Team:I'm not good at settler factory setup,sorry,but could KB do that before me?THX

Checking in.

Settler factories are easy to set up. A granary is a must.

A 4 turn factory needs 5 extra food and 6 shields at size 4 and 5 extra food and 7 shields at size 5. A forest or mBGrassland provides the extra 4 shields when it grows. Each time the town grows check the city screen to make sure it's producing 5f and 6s at size 4 and 5f and 7s at size 5

Turn 0: Size 4, 10f till growth. (+5f, 6s)
Turn 1: Size 4, 5f till growth, 6 shields
Turn 2: Size 5, 10f till growth, 12 shields + 2 shields from forest on growth. Move citizen from forest to a 2 food, 1+ shield tile. (+5f, 7s)
Turn 3: Size 5, 5f till growth, 21 shields.
Turn 4: Size 4, 10f till growth, 28 shields + 2 shields from forest on growth. Size reduced by 2 building the settler. Move citizen from forest to a 2 food, 1+ shield tile. (+5f, 6s).
repeat turns 1-4

6 Turn factories I always mess up, that requires building a 10s unit then the settler and I haven't comprehended the mechanics for that yet. :)

plarq, play your turns and don't worry, we are still miles from the 4 turn factory, we need to grow size and don't even have the tech for a granary, rax and settler is priority for now. and go for MAX science, once we settle 2nd town you will see the turns for wirting will go down quite a bit.

ok,I got it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/2150BC.JPG
Alex,3000BC
Preturn:None,add a beaker in F1 screen.
T1:Build Sparta,Start warrior,labor in the lake.
T2:Nothing
IBT:Egypt knocked our door,she has Mas,CB and WC,lacks Alpha,she offered WC and 23g for Alphabet,or Masonry for Alphabet and 2g.I take WC deal.
T3:Nothing
IBT:Athen archer->Settler
T4:Nothing.
IBT:Sparta Warrior->worker
T8:Nothing
IBT:Athen Settler->Barracks
T9:Move Settler to FP land.
T12:settler pair ready.
T13:Found Thermopylae.
T14:Worker roading Dyes.
IBT:Byz->Collossus ongoing.
T16:Nothing
IBT:Athen Rax->Settler.
T17:Nothing
T20:Writing->Philo at Max,15t.
Summary:I start Philo last turn.
Athen has a rax now.
No one trade us Pottery.
I meet no new face.
save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/RAT4-2150BC.SAV)

looking at the map, it might be a good idea to expand southeast since there are hills and mountains for that iron we need.

Looking good, hope we can really bag philo first. usually I would have gone for IW or whatever other tech, but I had hoped by chosing writing and philo we might get AI's to talk to us to get those techs. In goz8 and rat3, the AI was a little too quiet. maybe we are more lucky with this somewhat different approach.
And don't forget to start building walls once we aquired the requred tech. Expect some type of war in the near future.


The Roster
The Rat
plarq - just played (20 turns :crazyeye: )
Kaiser_Berger - up with 10 turns from now on
elmarae - on deck
dl123654 - waiting for his new computer

If we build Walls in front,with Hoplite inside and horses around,we'll make a killing zone!

Looks good. I've got it.

Preturn- We look alright.

T3 2030

We settle Corinth.

T4 1990

Scouting archer reveals spices to the east.

T5 1950

A people calling themselves the Ottomans appear in the east.

T6 1910

On the IT Ottomans pop up and offer us a trade. It could be risky to us getting Philo first, but I trade Writing and 24g for Pottery and Masonry.


Summary


We should have a settler factory up and running soon. Once the granary is complete it should be about ready. It will probably run best and quickest from size 5-7, but as was shown 4-6 is easily doable as well. We have lots of quality land left to grab, namely the spices to the east. After that settling SE sounds good, especially to claim some of the mountains. Philo is done in 5 turns, I would suspect us taking Literature as our free tech.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/rat04-1750.JPG

It could be risky to us getting Philo first, but I trade Writing and 24g for Pottery and Masonry. there might be some risk, but getting 2 free techs is far better. especially we can build walls now, please do so for the outer cities.

agree on taking lit as free tech though we might not go for GL, its a good tech anyway. let's hope we will stay in the trading game for a while and grab more land

elmarae is up

Skip me this time, I have a flu or head cold of some sort.

dl123654, are you available already, esle I will take it

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Rat4_1500BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
will try and time granary and growth for less wastage

1.1725BC
zzz

IT chop will speed up granary in Athens

2.1700BC
zzzz

3.1675BC
granary in 1, growth in 2

4. 1650AD
Athens -> hoplite
reduce science, philo next turn

IT philo, select lit :dance: we get our free tech
go for the wheel in 5

5.1625BC
hoplite continues walking south, there is a lot of land

IT great, Rome knocks on our door
don't want to trade lit, but we can get IW and CB for phlio, done
Iro are next, Mysticism and 5g for philo

6.1600BC
well, the iron sources are pretty far off
step on hut to relase some barbs

7.1575BC
start 4 turn settler

8. 1550BC
meet the Celts

IT they knock on our door, let's see
we can get maths, the wheel and all their gold for lit, ok

91525BC
we have horses very closeby, go for HBR in 5

10.1500BC
there is a lot of land south, next turn border expansion will give us the horses, settler ready next turn, should go east
road prepared already

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/rat41500.jpg

The Roster
The Rat - just played
plarq - up
Kaiser_Berger - on deck
elmarae - skipped
dl123654 - need to indicate when is computer ready

I'm up now,seems the situation is fine with me.I'll perform some new dot-maps.

Just got off the phone with the repair company, they said I will have it on Monday. :)

@dl123654

great, we follow the above roster then

Check:None.
IBT:Athen Settler->Lib
T1:where's the Horse?Well it's roading.
T2:Found Delphi in SE of Athen,I need Rivers for Defence.
IBT:Thermopylae Worker->Worker.
T4:Building Lib in Athen.
IBT:HBR->Poly in 11t.We need Monarchy ASAP.Corinth rax->Hop.
T5:I see Spanish units,no hello.So many nation started ToA!
IBT:Bella knocked door,MM for Lit and all our money.God we lose rax in Athen!Lower Sci to keep treasury.
T6:Athen start Settler.
T10:Look at this map.
We have Corinth and Sparta as Hoplite towns,Athen will produce Cat,do a 5-7 settler pump loop.Next player will MM Athen and Sparta.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Rat4-1250BC.jpg

Preturn- Dear god, the settler factory is on life support. Why we interupted the cycle, I do not know. It will be started again though. I also see the tobacco tile mined without a road. That is a waste of worker turns. Nothing we can't overcome, but annoying nonetheless.

T1 1225

Fix Athens as best I can. Pharsalos founded.

IT- The witch of Thebes comes calling for HBR. We have our first war.

T2 1200

Not much.

T3 1175

Everything is good now, settler factory is in good shape.

IT- Egpyt starts SoZ.

T4 1150

Reduce research.

IT- Polytheism comes in, start on Monarchy.

T5 1125

Athens pumps out a settler, starts another.

IT- Two Egyptian warriors wander out of the fog to the south.

T6 1100

Not much. Move a hoplite to stand off against the Egyptian threat.

IT- Egypt wisely bypasses our Hoplite.

T7 1075

Nothing much.

IT- Notice that the Celts and Iroquois are at war. An Egyptian warrior swarms descends upon Thermopylae.

T8 1050

Stock an extra hoplite in Thermo.

IT- Egypt impales a warrior and we have a Golden Age I also see a War Chariot show up.

T9 1025

With the war on, our peaceful expansion is pretty much done with. I kill the factory, going now for horses.

IT- Both our hoplites go elite in fending off around 4-5 warriors and a war chariot.

T10 1000

Knossos is founded to the east to grab another horse.


Summary

Thermoplylae is fairly safe now. We can start to send some horses down there to pick off weaklings. The settler NE of Athens should found 1 tile NE on the coast. We have Monarchy due in 9 turns, make sure we don't revolt in our GA though. Despot GA is better than an Anarachy GA. Just had another thought, if Athens has no rax, we should switch the horse to rax.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Rat4-1000BC.JPG

Athen lost its barracks,pls don't build horse from Athen now!
Give Wall in front cities?
We'll have to wait GA ends before revolt.

Bella knocked door,MM for Lit and all our money.God we lose rax in Athen I'd say that a mistake we should never make

BTW,elmarae or dl123654 up.I swear I'll never fall in that mistake again.Also I messed up with Settler factory when I inserted a Library in Athen.

:bump: elmarae?

I guess she's still having a flu,let's call dl.

Back, got it, it is second in the queue.

Okay I'm back after a bad bout of bronchitis and a bad reaction to pencillin, apparently I'm allergic to it. I'm not 100% but I will try to keep my commitments as I can.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Alexander_of_the_Greeks,_750_BC.SAV)

Preturn 1000BC:
Lux to 0%
Sparta switches to a settler
Athens switches to Barrack

IBT:
Rome kicks our troops

Turn 1 975BC:
Delphi Lib->Barrack
Lux to 10%

IBT:
See Iro fighting Celts

Turn 2 950BC:
Athens Barrack->Horse
Thermopylae Wall->Lib

Turn 3 925BC:
Sparta Settler->Horse
Corinth Horse->Horse
Ottoman building GL
Ottoman finish Pymarids
Byzantine finish MoM
Iroquois finish Great Wall
Many other wonder switches

Turn 4 900BC:
Athens Horse->Settler

Turn 5 875BC:
Delphi Hopile->Settler

Turn 6 850BC:
Athens Settler->Horse
Corinth Horse->Settler
Found Argos Wall

Turn 7 825BC:
Monarchy->CoL in 4
Pharsalos Lib->Barrack

Turn 8 800BC:
Sparta Horse->Settler
Spanish finish GL
Second horse online
Found Mycenae Lib

Turn 9 775BC:
Athens Horse->Settler
Corinth Settler->Hoplite

Turn 10 750BC:
Delphi Settler->Barrack

Notes:
Egypt stopped attacking, a chariot has been sitting on our boarder for my entire turn set
All the AI are rushing for the free land to our south, we need to take a least an iron down there

The space left:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Free_Land.JPG

Send one settler over here to steal the spices:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Build_Here.JPG

we are smack bewteen all the AI's, what a fanciful situation :crazyeye: hope we can survive this.

so, elmarae, do you want to take this or get skipped until your turn again in line?

Preflight

OMG.. what a mess, jigsaw puzzle of civs.
We are only at war with Egypt.
Lux slider moved up 10% for happiness
CoL in 1
Tempted to kick them out of our territory but don't want declarations of war.

730 BC
COL > republic in 10 (-7gpt, 95g)

710 BC
Corinth > Hoplite > Hoplite
Athens > Settler > Settler
Sparta > Settler > Hoplite
Founded Herakleia > Walls

690 BC
Our exploring Archer is kicked out of Iroq lands

670 BC
Iroq demands 22g. I remain silent. He doesn't declare.
Thermo > Library > Barracks
Grand River (Iroq) builds Hanging Gardens.

650 BC
Corinth > Hoplite > Hoplite
Athens > Settler > Settler
Pharsalos > Barracks > Hoplite
Found Ephesus > Walls
Found Thessalonius > Walls

630 BC
Found Rhodes > Walls
3 Eqyptian Swordsmen appear on our borders
Sparta > Hoplite > Hoplite
Preemptive strike on the 3 Swordsmen. Kill 1 Sword, 2 of our horse reduced to 1hp

610 BC
Kill sword with horse, promotes no injury.
Found Eretria > Walls
Found Troy > Walls
1 Sword left to threaten Herakleia with a 1 sword reinforcement on the way.

590 BC
Egytian Sword attacks Herakleia. eHoplite defends taking 4 damage.
Corinth > Hoplite > Hoplite
Athens > Settler > Hoplite
Argos > Walls > Library

570 BC
Our GA ends
Pharsalos > Hoplite > Hoplite
Herakleia > Walls > Library

BC
Celts demand 20g. I remain silent. They declare. (If we change to republic that's free war happiness)
Discover The Republic > Construction
Sparta > Hoplite > Hoplite
Left the decision up to the next player on whether to go to republic or not.

Our Eastern Empire
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Rat04_BC550_East.jpg
The settler pair to the grassland is where I was moving them.

Our Western Empire
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Rat04_BC550_West.jpg
The yellow arrows show where the Egyptian forces are coming from. The Green arrow is where I was bringing reinforcements from.
The Celts are in the Middle Ages as seen in the blue circle.

The Roster
The Rat - up
plarq - on deck
Kaiser_Berger -
dl123654 -
elmarae - just played

Note: I didn't muck up our rep so I'm golden at the moment. :crazyeye:

what a mix of colors and maze of lands. hope we can clear some. I don't know whether republic is the choice of governemnt, WW might be huge once we attack others.

what does the rest think?

We will be a war a lot and can't just end the war when our people are unhappy, monarchy would be better.

@dl123654

totally agree here, I think our only governments will be monarchy and later communism. Should have stated it in the opening thread. hope republic might give us a trading opportunity, but I highly doubt it.

By the way, have we settled the iron in the south?


just a comment: elmarae, don't edit your posts, yesterday night I checked whether you played your turns, but I saw no new post after that 'playing right now' and assumed you didn't. I could have played my turns then, never mind though.

Monarchy is the goverment of choice. 50% WW with a couple civs at war with you and no end in sight is not pretty.

Another note, do not be suprised if we have trouble with the Byzantines soon, as Herakleia has been placed too aggresively. Overlapping more than one of the starting nine squares is usaully enough to irriate them suffieciently.

Another thought, if we can get enough of an offensive force, we might think of making a push for the Egyptian iron town, as it is within range. Getting through Byzantine territory without getting the boot will be the tough part.

we'll fight Byzantine ASAP,we need space to breath...

hope I can end the Egypt war during my turns so that we can turn attention towards Byzantines. We can potentially gain a lot from that war.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/rat4_350BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
while we have 2 wars and so few units, do not dare to revolt
set science to max and currency will be in 5
oull back a hoplite to undefended :nono: Thesalonika just next to Celt land
what's the purpose of that town anyway? to aggravate Byz to declare war on us
when we have what? no iron and 3 horses, where is that settler pair heading to? going to build a galley to try and snatch at least
one iron down south
there is quite a bit of MM improvement possible
rush rax in Thermopylae, our land honestly looks like a mess, so many unconnected cities and non ideal MM
this way we will lose very fast. I am quite unhappy here I have to say :(

IT we fight off 4 units at Herakleia

1.530BC
rush library in Mycynea to fend off cuture pressure
2 horses at Herakleia manage to beat sword and spear

IT Egypt seems kind of crazy as 2 sword implae against Holite and leave their settler uncovered, which runs away

2.510BC
try and chase that settler but see a spear coming for rescue

IT our southern wandering lone archer falls prey to many Celt units after defeating 2 on defense
great Egypt finishes Zeus

3.490BC
our horses defeat spear and capture the settler :)
just one time our hoplite reaches Thesalonika to cover it from approaching archer (we are very lucky here)


IT Celt archer attacks Iroquois town, that's good
another Egypt settler pair apprears

4. 470BC
adjust lux and science and get currency next turn

IT we are very lucky, in front of our hoplite settler pair a celt archer beats a settler pair and send 2 slaves next to us :lol:
and finally Egypt wants to talk, we can't quite get contruction, but get 280g for peace
we get currency, construction next in 6 at -10gpt

5.450BC
trying to squeeze a few more horses to be able to attack Celts
but there are now 2 archers next to Thesalonika, pull a hoplite next to them on mountain
grab those 2 slaves

IT Celts pull back those 2 archers
but we get a Incas horse landing and a spear archer combo runs into our land

6.430BC
time to go on the offense, 3 horses go for Lapurdum

IT there are a lot of settler pairs running around
Celts come out with 3 archers from Lapurdum

7.410BC
can finally whip galley at Knossos
3 horses in front of Lapurdum now, we will get a few more units next turn and after getting contruction we can revolt finally

IT half the world is fighting each other, hope some towns get razed to free space for our squeezed towns
3 Celt archers march towards our workers not back to town

8. 390BC
elite horse beats one of those 3 archers, 3 horses kill 3 spears at Lapurdum, still an archer left
attack with our 4hp hoplite
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/rat4390.jpg
net 2 slaves

IT lose exposed horse to archer, forest chop speeds up walls at Rhodes

9. 370BC
defeat that archer with horse
galley picks up settler pair to settle that last available iron (hopefully)

IT we enter MA
we draw Engineering, go for feudalism next
more builds are ready and we revolt

10.350BC
roading works go on well, soon getting 2 lux online, next player please connect last city as well
galley will reach spot on hill in 3 turns, please use harbor to connect to our core then
whip 3 walls and revolt. we draw 6 turns anarchy
MM and we get feudalism in 34 turns due to scientists

sorry next player for anarchy, but we need monarchy. and please be careful when attacking, we must be ready to do so

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/rat4350.jpg

got it,will try luck

hope I didn't sound too angry, elmarae. but we went astray from our basics before my turns. empty towns, unconnected cities and we didn't even stick to 3 tile spacing. we were just plain lucky to have gotten no other attacks.

next player, after monarchy comes in, full steam for feudalism, get 2 harbors up in main core and hopefully that iron hill. after that we should aim for chivalry and knights.
and please settle another town between Argos and Lapurdum to re-establish 3 tile spacing.

do not start an unprepared war please. if there is a dogpile we are finished.
to me iroquois seem to be a nicer target first to grab 3 towns southeast of our core. that would get us the choke. after that we might think of attacking Byz. They surely enjoy their GA now with dromons.

IHT:Change Tax to Scientist.Feudal in 24t
IBT:Ottoman Sword kill Iroquois Spear.Spanish start Sun Tsu.All kind of settler pairs walking through our territory.
T1:Nothing
T2:zzzz,but Celt archer appear near Mycenae.
T3:zzzz
T4:Kill Celt Horse.Build Marathon Iron on spot.Beat Osman and Cleo by 2t.
IBT:Theodora demand "HORSE" and declares.Spanish allied with Celts and declares on us.What's called ugly.
T5:I autoraze the city of Septum.cost 1 horse.Theodora is bankrupt and gives us 0g in the ruins.Due to War Happiness, hired Scientist in some cities.(Study Art of War,instead of pleasing our people)
IBT:Monarchy,Celt Horse SoD approach our east.
T6:Start defence.
IBT:Lose Mycanae,along with 3 horse and 1 hoplite.
T7:Start building hoplite and horses.Two harbors for iron cost 400g,which we can't afford ATM.
T8-T10:Celts approach Eretria and Athen,luckily we have troop to deal with them.Byzantine send out hordes of archer/warrior/spear in our western land.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Byzantine_Troops.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Celtic_Troops.jpg

oh dear, fortunately at least we are a monarchy now and can rush things and produce. Once the Celt stack is gone we should be able to focus on Byzantines.

The Roster
The Rat
plarq - just played
Kaiser_Berger - up
dl123654 - on deck
elmarae

KB, you will get us something here I hope. :crazyeye:

Yeehaw, the squeeze is on. Will at the very least hold the fort. Got it.

hope I didn't sound too angry, elmarae. but we went astray from our basics before my turns. empty towns, unconnected cities and we didn't even stick to 3 tile spacing. we were just plain lucky to have gotten no other attacks.

Most of the towns were settled where I could, there wasn't many unclaimed areas to settle in and I do admit I focused too much time on grouping the workers and not roading to our new towns. The town on the coast that I left empty was because I moved the garrison there to defend against the egyptian attacks.

Preturn- Good lord, we've gone a bit nuts with the squeezed cities. We're really asking for a dogpile. And I can't figure out why our growth has been killed in several size 1 and 2 cities. They have just a scientist?! These cities need to grow to be more than extra unit support. I also rush the harbor in iron city.

IT- Celtic war is a disaster, we nearly lose Eretria as well.

T1 130

Our military plain sucks. 25 Hoplites and 3 horses? No wonder our territory is full of this multicolor crap. I try to arrange things so we don't collapse on the IT, but I'm not sure how it will go. This one is on the brink.

IT- Not a soul attacks, thankfully. We learn Feudalism. Set us towards Monotheism.

T2 110

With out mighty military I manage to kill a Byzantine archer and a Celtic horseman, but lose a horse in the process. Great.

IT- It really hits the fan as the Celts bring in the Romans. I just have to laugh in disbelief as a Regular Celtic horse attacking from across a river into Delphi, which has walls, takes down a vet Hoplite flawlessly. The next horse takes Delphi.

T3 90

I almost gave up, but decided to play on a bit. Take out a Celt Longbow and a Byzantine archer.

IT- In the words Ted Nugent, its a free for all. The Ottos are brought in by Rome. We fend off lots of units, but the Byzantines disconnect our dyes.

T4 70

I completely shut off research, as we need cash to rush all sorts of things. Try to kill what I can, but yeah. 3 Horsemen. Not a lot I can do.

IT- Marathon is razed by a freaking Spanish warrior. The rng really sucks. And yeah. Three horsemen. Knossos falls to the Celts as well.

I'm done with this for now, I typically don't get so frustrated with a game, but the situation I was handed was quite crappy. I don't think theres any crawling out of this hole, but feel free to try.

And in case you don't quite see how bad the situation sucks....

Good lord, we've gone a bit nuts with the squeezed cities. We're really asking for a dogpile people who don't believe it, here we have it, with all those ridiculously placed cities, we have aggravated the AI's and their were very happy to start the war against us. I agree, we were a little squeezed and in the midst of all nations, but had we settled the iron south and tried to get our core running well, we would have had a better chance. squeezing in cities where they don't benefit or ar not connectd, hard to reach, a downfall.

we even gave up the 3 tile spacing, reseached republic (totally wasted research turns)

too bad 3/4 rat games ended in losses. maybe I better join others only. might not be a good omen to play a rat game :sad:

EDIT:
And I can't figure out why our growth has been killed in several size 1 and 2 cities. They have just a scientist?! I am sure that's still the aftermath of the anarchy where MM had to be done to avoid unhappiness. of course ,once in monarchy, MM should be done to start to grow again.

I think we could have done better in this one, its just that we got sloppy again. If I could have traded our 25 Hoplites and 3 horses for 15 Hoplites and 13 horses, we would still be going right now. It was killer when I couldn't stop the stack of crappy Byzantines or a handful of Celtic horses. Once they broke through all hell broke lose. I still think this variant is very winnable, we just need to try a little harder and plan things out a bit better.

I still think this variant is very winnable, we just need to try a little harder and plan things out agree and this setup wasn't that bad, but played too sloppy. suggest to those not so familiar with AW to play some single player for training first.

The more I think about it, this variant probably requires rules very close to that of AW. CxxC spacing must be an absolute rule, unless in a case of securing a vital resource. Even in that case, a junction town must be formed between the far spaced city and the rest. Also, I would advocate no more squeezed cities. By squeezed, I mean cities that compete for more than one of an enemy city's initial nine squares. Also, as I said, we needed a more balanced military. When my turn set started, we had 25 Hoplites with just 3 horses and one or two cats. We should have had at least ten horses, and at least triple or quadruple the number of cats. It's hard to write a rule for that, its more of a judgement call.

This games did teach me though that the Hoplite is not as invinceable as I thought, at least when being dogpiled. I think the Greeks can work very well for this variant. Rome might be interesting too, even though they are not scientific. The Legion can serve as both offense and defense, might be just the trick for this style of game.

Well,we lose again,sigh...
I didn't complete my Solo game as AWM,due to lack of patience,so I guess my AW experience is a little thin.Well should we start an AWM training?