It's AWD :wow: Continents on a small map. Standard AW, so we can trade before we declare, pillage, capture wonders, yada yada yada. Starting screenshots in the next post.

C3C 1.22 Patch
Level: Deity
Variant: Always War :hammer:
Civilization: Theodora
Map Type: Continents
Size: Small
Age: Old
Temperature: Warm
Climate: Wet
Barbarians: Sedentary
Rivals: Random
AI Aggression: Least
Victory ConditionAll enabled.
Culturally linked starts: Off
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On

Roster We can change the order if anyone objects. I don't care where I play.
1. Handy
2. ThERat
3. Admiral Kutzov
4. DeadlyNeprhons!
5. Bede
6. Greebley
7. Barbslinger



Always War Boilerplate as we play it.
You may only trade when you first meet a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no GPT trades allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count.

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy.

SG Stuff
You have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 72 to play. If you need a one day extension, then mention this before the 72 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 72 total, switch places or ask for a skip. We will play 10 turns at first, and possibly fewer later (5) if the turns begin to take too long.

Lucky candle to light the way.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY02_luckycandle.gif

One
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_1.JPG

Two
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_2.JPG

Three
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_3.JPG

Four
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_4.JPG

Mini Maps in order 1 to 4
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_mini.JPG

It simply got to be number 1

never mind that we have to wait for 10 turns to work the cow and fish. we have to stay coastal. there is a good chance e will have iron in those byzantine mountains, bot a smiley as well.

start 2 , nth special

start 3, whale is out of reach unless you want to settle west, which is away from river :(

start 4 what's the smiley there? incense or ivory?

The only downside of 1 is that we are starting at the very end of Land. Our capitol will not be centrally located. Of course that is an advantage too for defense.

Given that we are playing Byz, I will vote for 1 too.

start 4 what's the smiley there? incense or ivory?

If we play #4 it's incense, if we play #1 it's ivory. ;)

With respect to #1, have you ever seen ivory in a forest?

I agree with Rat & Greebley that 1 looks best.

#4 looks pretty much like ivory
#1 dyes? anyway, is #1 at the end of the map? hard to tell

Does anyone care to see mini maps? IIRC we are at the tip of a continent in each of these. AI to the north and south of us would be certain death.

Not sure I like the "lucky candle" mountains in #1. One I could stand, but two? Unless you want to move away from them.

#4 might do, though. But then ask the Adm about my start picking; it's only marginally better than vipr's. :D

By all means, post the maps. I'm anxious to see where the real cradle of civilization is (I.E.- not one of the stinky AI civs wallowing in their own vomit)

Not sure I like the "lucky candle" mountains in #1. One I could stand, but two? Unless you want to move away from them.

#4 might do, though. But then ask the Adm about my start picking; it's only marginally better than vipr's. :D


We could move one tile north to settle #1. It looks like it will still be on the coast. 4 is OK for the lux but that's in 1 too. On the other hand, two gives us the fewest number of water tiles to work which is also good but the other starts have more potential for those incredibly commercial sea adjacent cities.

By all means, post the maps. I'm anxious to see where the real cradle of civilization is (I.E.- not one of the stinky AI civs wallowing in their own vomit)

I added the mini maps to post #2.
3 and 4 appear to be the most isolated.

#1 looks good except the lack of centrality. If we can palace jump as a stategic decision it may be better. Leaving a settler waiting to resettle after dismantling and selling a possible granary off prior may be worth looking at. I'm interested. I look forward to playing with everyone.

1 or 4. With 1 move the settler N.

We are now at 7 in this game, which will ensure lots of changes in strategy as the lead passes from one play to the next. AW by committee :lol:

Welcome Barbslinger.

Starting votes:
Handy 1 or 4
ThERat 1
Admiral Kutzov 1 or 4
DeadlyNeprhons!
Bede 1, but get the heck away from those big candles. Maybe 4
Greebley 1
Barbslinger 1

Looks like we'll be playing #1, so what do we do. Settle or move?

move 1 NW we still get fish, cow, fresh water and get a little distance from the smoky mountains. Also lets us go CxxC to the smiley face.

@barbslinger, Howdy.

Good to see you again.

move 1 NW seems best

I agree with 1. Move it NW. Give it a floor run and see how it plays.

#1 and 1NW....build lots of boats so the Admiral will be happy and power research to Map Making?

I prefere 1 where it is. The reason is we get a lot mroe shields. If we move north we are exchanging the hills and mountains for ocean.

Edit: I think we will get enough food with the fish and cow to be able to work those hills and mountains.]

If we do go to 1 maybe we should move the worker N and then see what we see. In part my decision will be based on whether it is all ocean to the north or has some land as well.

One other difficulty with choosing 1 may be that there is no near non-mountainous lands. We won't know that until we start though.

How about 1N, then?

This makes three times I have agreed with the Adm. Gotta check my prescription. :dubious:

Gets the cows, keeps the freshwater and some hills and I think is still on the coast. Those mountains have smoking tops and are generally pretty useless excpet for fireworks displays and making cispy critters out of any invade stupid enough to park on them.

Handy can you move the WORKER N one (we will want to head to the cow anyway) and show what the map looks like after that? That will make it easier to make a decision on the settle in place vs Heading N

The only problem with N is that we lose the fish.

Handy can you move the WORKER N one (we will want to head to the cow anyway) and show what the map looks like after that? That will make it easier to make a decision on the settle in place vs Heading N

The only problem with N is that we lose the fish.

Sure - but I won't be home for about 6 hours. If one of you gents want to move the worker and then post a screenshot before then that would be great. :D

EDIT - nevermind - you guys don't have a save. I thought I posted one, but then remembered the save I posted last night was GR04, not HNDY13.

There's actually 2 fish to the SW. If we move the settler N, another city should be able to go for the 2 fish. N also sets us up nicely for the lux.

Beginning to think Bede suffered brain damage in his recent celebrations; he keeps agreeing with me. :confused:

I used the seed of 10397504 to make sure respawn was off since it was unitentionally on in HNDy12. I hope this does no change anything. The screen shot looks to be the same. BTW, we are playing a young world, not an old one. Expect lots of mountains. I hate mountains.

Here is a shot of start 1 moving the worker N. The settler has not moved.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_mini2.JPG

Now my vote is N also for the settler.

I was worried all the new land exposed might have been ocean. It is not.

We lose the fish but can pick it up with another town.

Now my vote is N also for the settler.


If we go NW, it looks like we can place one city CxxC to the northeast of the capital on the little peninsula to get a little more of a core ring. If we move N, I'm not sure we can place another city CxxC to the north of the capital.

Still settler N?

If we go N, it looks like there may be a little spit of land to the NW to place a city. Is W of the SW lucky candle land or water?

I am still happy with NW. Either is fine with me.

If we went N I would place the city N-N of the capitol.

NW has the advantage that we coul put a town E-E and have a shortcut to the other side of the lake assuming that is ocean we see on the far side.

Actually I think I do favor NW.

Looks a lot like water to me.

Playing later tonight.

Irrigate cow - right?

masonry for walls (we won't be on a hill)?

This is a losing map. I played 30 turns since there was little going on.

4000bc
Worker N
Settler NW

Turn 1 3950
Settle, work lake
Mine begun
Masonry for walls

3500
Mine and road done, so we move to water the cows.
We could have settled N and still done a CxxC, oh well…
Dyes are our lux.

Later…
Are we playing as Australia?

3450
bump lux.


2630
See borders to the south, so I will retreat.

2950
I built a setterl since we are so far away from the AI. We’ll have time to get spears before anyone arrives.

Masonry – WC

I see way too many mountains and jungle for us to have any chance at deity in this one. This is my bad for selecting young instead of old earth. Let’s roll another start that’s wet warm 5 billion.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_mtn.JPG

Yea. I like wet and old maps because of all the potential commerce. Too many jungle and mountains makes me a sad nephron. (well it makes my nephrons sad.)

This looks playable.
Move NW, settle coastal river BG and pop the hut.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_ww5b.JPG

replay, I suggest you play 20-30 turns and then post, that way we will ensure it's doable

Edit: yes, go ahead and play 20 turns with that start, looking promising

That looks really good. There are so few sea tiles to work so we'll have high food and sheilds. Not to mention the fact we could carve an actual ring out of that start. Let's see how it is and hope there aren't many other civs nearby....

4000bc all over again
Played 30 again since little was happening until the end when the Incan wars began over a patch of silks.

Worker irrigates
Settle NW
Worker to BG and he sees silks.
Select CB and hope we get WC or masonry from hut.

3950
We get maps & gold. Set research to masonry. The map from the hut allows us to delay exploration a bit.

3450
Road & mine are done, water the wheat.
Going to try to sneak a barracks in here, and will switch if we meet the AI.

3250
Wheat watered, road going in, barracks in 9, masonry in 8.

3150
Pop now three, so lux goes to 10%

2900
masonry in 1, pop 4 lux @ 20%
rax – spear

2800
Incan warrior & settler are headed for our silks.
No trades, declare

2750
spear – walls

2630
walls – spear

2590
Lone Incan warrior shows up. I’m sure friends are close behind.

2550 turn 30
Regular spear is going to cover the worker.
You have 1 vet spear in the capital behind walls and 1 due on the IBT.
Plenty of pop to rush a spear if you can’t build another before the Inca arrive in force. Better yet, you can also starve a turn to get 2 turn spears (9spt, then 11spt). Tha't better that a pop rush.
Three spears behind walls should be plenty.
After we mine the wheat, we'll pull 10 spt for 2 turn spears.
I’d expect about 8 to 10 regular warriors to show up soon.
We should survive behind walls unless we get some bad RNG action.

Roster
1. Handy
2. ThERat - the Incans are coming the Incans are coming
3. Admiral Kutzov
4. DeadlyNeprhons!
5. Bede
6. Greebley
7. Barbslinger

The world at 2550 bc
blue circles try to maximize coastal cities for building fire boats.Those are single inca, not stacks. We declared in 2800, so we can guesstimate how many tiles the Inca capital is from us once they show up. After the first wave clears we can get a settler out.

EDIT Southern blue cirlces are wrong. They should be 1 NE from where they are so we get a CxxCxxC pattern S of the river.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_2550bc.JPG

got it, playing either late night or tomorrow morning

The world at 2550 bc
blue circles try to maximize coastal cities for building fire boats.Those are single inca, not stacks. We declared in 2800, so we can guesstimate how many tiles the Inca capital is from us once they show up. After the first wave clears we can get a settler out.

EDIT Southern blue cirlces are wrong. They should be 1 NE from where they are so we get a CxxCxxC pattern S of the river.

How about the northwestern dot? It does CxxxC from the capital. Won't it be less corrupt if it's one tile southeast? Or am I missing some corruption rule here (it confuses me :confused: )

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/HNDY13_2150bc.sav)

Pre-Turn
reassign tiles, reduce lux to 20% up science to 80% and WC is in 2 now

1.2510BC
2 warriors approach city, we now have 2 spears inside
1 spear parked outside to protect improved wheat

IT 1 warrior impales, 2nd parks, 6 more come into view
WC is in, go for cheap tech pottery in 6

2.2470BC
no need to rush for spear I feel, 3 versus 7

3.2430BC
next turn they will hopefully all be history

IT we get attacked by 5 of them, lose regular spear and we have 2 elite spears
archer is ready

4. 2390BC
archer promotes taking out warrior

5.2350BC
zzzz

IT 2 warriors from north, 2 from east

6.2310BC
move out spear to protect worker

IT we get another spear and are protected by 2 spear 1 archer in town

7.2270BC
archer takes out warrior
reassign tiles anticipating where east warriors will go so we still get 2 turn spear

IT it works

8.2230BC
move worker and spear onto lux

IT 2 more warriors impale themselves
pottery is in, go for the wheel in 12 first (writing would be in 30)

9. 2190BC
elite archer goes 1hp to defeat a regular warrior :eek:
now only 1 warrior in sight :D

IT warrior parks outside city on forrest

10.2150BC
another archer will be ready next turn (or spear)
wheel at -2gpt in 11 turns, we might want to change build to settler, we need more towns
we have now 2 elite spears, 2 reg spears, 1 elite archer, 1 worker

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/handy132150.jpg

Nice:D

we might want to change build to settler
Yes - let's get the second city down now that the first wave has passed. With a little luck we'll quickly get a leader, plop down 4 cities and be in the pillaging business.

I'm thinking we need to settle dead on top of the silks, despite my earlier error filled dot map. Throw that dot map out, we need a new one. Settle on silks makes them easier to defend, so we save a couple of units. We can 1-turn reinforce from the capital to the silks. The river will slow us down going from silks to capital. If we settle beside the silks, I see us losing spear after spear defending them.

Any thoughts speak up with pros & cons. :D

Roster
1. Handy
2. ThERat
3. Admiral Kutzov - UP
4. DeadlyNeprhons!
5. Bede
6. Greebley
7. Barbslinger

I'll be gone Friday & some of Saturday. If you come up, grab it and go. If I come up just skip me & I'll jump in when I return.

Up in a couple others, how bout a swap with DNS?

I'm all for it admiral. I'll play it and see if handy approves, which I'm sure he will.


One other thing Handy. Do you mean the far NW silks to settle on when you say the silks? I'd like to avoid the ICS thing if possible. It's too painful to work the tiles for me. I'd like much better the far NW silks though.

Ok, I made the report and it is quite favorable so I'm positive Handy will approve of our switching. Let's just say I don't think the Incans will have a GA anytime soon with our troops around. :nono:

PT- Change Constant to settler, due in 2.

IT- Largest nations. Pathetic are we?!?! We'll show you all. Hahaha!!!

T1- Move elite spear to help cover the settler's path.

IT- Hmph. A Chasqui and a warrior motion to attack. Let them come I say!

T2- Fortify elite spear to cover the settler. Settler moves under him. Spear in 3 in Constant.

IT- Warrior attacks the city, making another elite spear. Yay.

T3- Move an elite spear back to Constant. Attack a CS outside Constant and win flawlessly. Cover our elite archer who attack with his own elite spear escort.

IT- None

T4- Move settler to the NE silks (far ones), protected by an elite spear. Move archer to the worker making the silk road.

IT- None

T5- Road completes on silks. Lux to 10%. Constant, Spear--->Archer. Move the worker to start reinforcement road to the newly founded Adrianople. Send a vet spear to Adrian. Start walls in Adrian BTW. Wheel in 5 at +3.

Pause for effect..............What happened in the next turns is what could only be described as excellent tactics or an act of the Byzantine Civ 3 gods. Please read furthur. The latter is more likely.

During that pause (IT) trouble approached in the form of 2 archers and 2 Chasqui's. All regular.

T6- Move vet spear into Adrian.

IT- Theodora cringes at the sight of 6 units, poised to attack Adrianople. However her top advisor, Nephron the Deadly tells a white lie and says he has it all under control. A Chasqui retreated on our elite spear so it's really only 5 units.

T7- I hold my breath and attack 1 of the archers with our elite. Although they get the opening fire from another archer we still win with 3 HP left. Moving a fresh veteran archer toward Adrian (he is under the reinforcement road under construction. We need it really badly too. I tough it out though.)

And so on the eve of a great battle, I pray to the spearman vs. tank gods and sacrifice an old arrow in my fireplace. :D

IT- Chasqui attacks! He dies but takes our elite spear to 2 HP. An archer attacks, across the stupid river but still kills our vet spear losing only a HP. Worse still, he promotes. :(

T8- The easy stuff first. Turn down science to get wheel in one turn at +6. I use a vet archer en route against the 3/4 vet that attacked last turn. I lose but luckily I took an HP off and he didn't promote making him 2/4. Now he will turn back because the AI could never face those kind of odds/ :rolleyes: I actually turn up Lux a notch to allow reinforcement of adrian with another spear from Constant.

IT- Chasqui attacks and takes off a HP before retreating. Archer attacks......enemy to 2 health......our spear to 2........our spear to 1 :sad: .....enemy to 1......enemy to zero.......LEADER JUSTINIAN!!! :king: I call him "The Savior's Vicar". (although I'm an atheist, that's basically what he is. Plus it sounds cool.

9- Leader returns to an adoring public at Constantinople. I change Constant to a settler to get our army into commision ASAP. Move another elite spear into Adrian. Wheel comes in.


It's up to you what to research admiral but it's basically IW or Math if you know what I mean. Also, check the lux slider. I might not have adjusted it.

And so, another leader passed, but the Byzantine legacy lived on...

The name of the save is meant to be like the Alamo.

Quick question. How do I clear my attachment total. I'm almost out of space for them. Or how do I get more space?

The aftermath of the greatest battle in history (hey, it's only 1750 BC after all)

May I have one more swap? Please? :bounce: I'm now up in four plus this. This will require both brain cells so another swap would be appreciated. DNS was too quick.

Checking in, delayed leaving town. Looks great! Build a spear army and put the torch to the Incan & French improvements.

Swaps are okay to work among each other. :goodjob:

Keep this baby moving. :D

Sounds like Bede is up then.

Got it. Play tonight. Spear army and scorch the earth.

Got it. Play tonight. Spear army and scorch the earth.

Leaving soon (I think) and back home Saturday. We'll need a couple more cities before we can scorch the earth, but the army is a nice turn of events for us. :D

If I come up before Saturday night - skip or swap me as you see fit. :goodjob:

Ya, we need 4 cities to build the army. I think it worth keeping the leader and try to get the cities built.

1725 Here come some more.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_1725.jpg

And there is a battle at the gates of Adrianople. One dies, one retreats.

In 1700BC another battle at Adrianople and another one bites the dust.

And in 1675 the settler heads south away from incoming Inca. Our defenders at Adrianople kill another archer and retreat a Chasqui.

In 1650 kill the Chasqui. Settler moved to blue dot shifted 1NE to find a barbarian camp in the suburbs.

Found Caesarea in 1625 and the Numidians pay us 50g for improving the neighborhood.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_1625.jpg

Building walls.

Another Chasqui and an archer are impaled by our eSpear at Adrianople. And more Inca arrive at Adrianople, including a sword who hoves into view in 1600.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_1600_00.jpg


In 1575 the Inca sword and archer pair are slain at the gates of Adrianople

Dottie the DA has this to report in 1575

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy12_1575_01A.jpg

And this

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy12_1575_002.jpg



and in 1550 the Inca army turns away and heads back north only to receive some fast moving reinforcements :eek:

Here is the situation at 1500 from the balloon's eye view

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_1500_02.jpg

And on the ground

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_1500_00.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_1500_01.jpg

Walls were finished in Adrianople and it is now building a barracks. Constaninople is building spear but could shift to a settler. I tried to maximise gold by working only river or roaded fields to keep the research to cattypults at the maximum output, minimum time. Now due in 6 @-1 with 94g in the kitty.

Do we still have the leader? We could lay down a fourth town and build the army.

Admiral Kutzov, Tell me if you want me to play first. Otherwise you are up.

Leader still lives.

Wanted to have garrisons to cover the towns, and a guard for the silk road before I built town #4. Connie could equip a settler in no more than two if swapped from spear with a little citizen re-assignment.

I got it. Will try to get city 4 up.

To paraphrase: They came the same old way, we killed them the same old way...

Recon: no changes

1475: put another guard on the silk road.

1450: prepare to put down an end run to Caesarea.

1375: drop science to 50%

IT: Math in. Start on HBR. With the terrain, don't think there's much iron in reach. Gandhi finishes Colossus in Bombay. He mumbles something about his followers and runs to try to get ahead of them.

1350: 5/5 spear takes down 4/4 sword at Ardianople.

IT: Inca build Lighthouse

1300: Notice green border in NW. No contact on diplo screen.

Nothin' else. Next city is ready to be set up on red.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/handy_1250.jpg

next player might need this http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/HNDY_1250_BC.SAV

I got it. Hope to play tomorrow.

Preturn:
We need more than 1 worker. I decide to switch Cesarea. You know its bad if a size 2 town is working unimproved land. We should have built a worker before this. It is slowing our progress down.

I switch the Capitol to grow this turn. It makes the settler seem to take 2 turns (get 9 need 10), but when we grow we get an extra shield which will make it one turn afterall.

I wouldn't have gone for HBR when no horses are in sight. Iron working or Writing would have been my choices.

IBT: All the Incans retreat and the light green town disappears. Incans just declared war on that civ! Excellent, we can build up some while they are busy.

1225 BC: Send our new settler off to the spot on the dot map. It does seem the best. There are no great town spots and that spot gets lots of Coastal squares. It will be good for producing commerce.

Start building some Catapults.

1200 BC: Build Nicea. We have a spear army.

1175 BC: A spear is exploring East a bit. Some decent lands.

1150 BC: Head some archers and the Spear army out. I am thinking of removing that town near us.

IBT: Decide to go for Iron Working next. If we get lucky we might have some. See some Incans

1125 BC: Into Incan lands.

IBT: Interesting. If I leave the lands less well defended some Incans head toward us. So I went back to 2 spear and they left again. The are not attacking us if we keep 2 defenders in accessable cities.

1100 BC: Wow! The elite archer gets a leader on attack! My first elite victory. Not sure what to do with it. Grow to size 8?
Since we have a spare leader it is worth the slight risk of losing our Spear army on attack. It takes 6 hp, but kills the Spear in the town. I forgot to jot down its name, but the Incan town is destroyed

1075 BC: Send a settler tow the hill mentioned above.

1050 BC:

1025 BC: Spear army is healed and moving

1000 BC: Some Incan units head toward us. They may be targetting our town that has only 1 spear. I send an archer and Cat toward it. Use the Spear army to kill an Archer.

Notes:
I sent the Spear Army out. If I knew we were going to get another leader that fast I would have build an Archer army.

I would like to work on getting to 8 towns if we can. It will take a while but let our capitol keep growing and building settlers.

There is a settler under the spear on the hill. Since Inca travelled a bit to get there, there is actually a decent chance for iron.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/HNDY13_BC1000.JPG

Barbslinger will need a skip/swap. That means you are up Handy.

Handy, it occurred to me that you have the ppl who know AW all in a row. It would be better to spread us out a bit. That way we can better help those that haven't played AW to death learn some tricks of the trade. Just a thought.

well, amazing progress by all of you. :goodjob:

well, Greebley, you got AK sandwiched between myself and deadlynephron, just trust him, he won't be that bad. Look at last handy's AWE, we all did fairly well. but maybe you might want to swap him with some old grumpy folk

Just put me wherever you want me. No problemo. HBR was an idiot moment I'll blame on beer and bickering children. Blanked on the fact that the wheel reveals horses, not HBR. :spank: The title is there for a reason. :crazyeye:

With the demise of the unnamed city, the SE appears wide open. Is it safe to skim a curragh at Caesera and go explore?

Ok - I'll play this tonight (Monday).

Any thoughts on what to do with the second leader?

Option #1. Archer army seems a good idea, but I've not read all the turns yet. This could attack under cover of the spear army. (My favorite - but I'm open to discussion).

[EDIT] It will be a while before we get to 8 cities - I was thinking this was the DG Aztec game :crazyeye: . We should probably rush the HE.

Option#2. Another spear army to cover archers we want to shuttle up to the attack force, and then cover slaves we bring home.

Option #3 - HE. Might be good to rush since it is so early in the game.

Also - Ideas on when & where we want to build the Glib?

Is anywhere but Caesarea going to have enough shields to build it in a reasonable amount of time?

Lots of Greeks coming. Lots and Lots.

Pre Turn

Turn off animation
Move leader to Caesarea to rush the HE after the cat is done. This will expand borders to work that cow. We need some pop for cities.

Turn 1 975
We need to watch out that the Inca scouts don’t kill our workers
I shuffle some stuff to cover our worker.
Found Varna – start walls
Army bumps into a Greek hop and settler. The Greeks already have horses, gems, CB, IW, Currency :wow: No trades. We declare.
Spot some Incan furs that need pillaging.

Turn 2 950
HE is rushed and Caesarea starts a cat
Nicaea is under attack from an archer, scout and horse next turn. Another horse is ready to attack in 2.
Pull spear from Caesarea leaving it empty and shuffle units for defense.
Army captures & kills an Incan slave.

IBT
Inca start ToA
Incan sword appears from the north. We need to find their iron pronto.

Turn 3 925
As expected, the Inca redirect toward Constantinople.
Archer kills a scout and gets cover from the spear.
Pillage furs and move to a mountain hoping to spot the iron when we learn IW on the IBT.
We are extremely thin on defense.

IBT
Must be something good in the SE since the Greeks are making a beeline for it.
IW – writing (I think the Glib is a pipe dream).
Border expands & grabs the cow.

Turn 4 900
Very bad news. The Incan iron is buried under the city of Vilcas. :wallbash:

IBT
Inca start Hanging Gardens

Turn 5 875
Varna goes to forest for faster walls
Caesarea switched to warrior for MP.
Army is pillaging the Inca.

IBT
Nicaea – walls – barracks

Turn 6 850
Not much

IBT
The Inca finish the Great lighthouse.
Seven Greek archers approach from the NW.
Can see 9 Incan archers, a horse and a sword.

Turn 7 825
Cats go 2 for 2 and we kill an archer.
We discover Cuzco

IBT
Lots of Greek archers heading our way. I can see 9 and some moved of view. I think 11 at least coming with the first set of 2 or 3 arriving in 6 turns.

Turn 8 800
15 Inca in our borders, and 5 are just outside.
After moving the army I can see 14 Greeks, with 2 or 3 more in the Darkness NW of the Capital.

IBT
Adrianople pops a leader on Defense, but loses a spear and the archer on defense. The city almost fell.
Korea completes ToA
India builds Gardens

Turn 9 775
Leader scampers to the capital.
We are toast when the Greeks arrive in force. There is an endless supply of archers streaming south.
I’m chopping walls at Varna.
IBT
Korea – on a wonder roll builds SoZ to go with the ToA.
Spears defeat 4 archers @ Adrianople.

Turn 10 800
Fire some cats.
Pillage

Notes:
leader is in the capital. May want to rushing the Palace in Nicaea to expand the borders. It won't expand for 10 turns though and the Greeks will get to us before that.
Walls at Varna get chopped on the IBT.
Might want to pop rush spears where you can, sit back and hope the RNG is kind versus the Greeks, and hope the pillaging will slow things a bit.
If we can place 3 more cities ICS like CxCxC and get a second spear army out maybe we can hang on.
We need some RNG luck to withstand the Greek first wave.
The army meeting the Greeks only delayed our declaration by 2 turns since the settler strolled right past Varna.

Roster
1. Handy
2. ThERat is up in the very hot seat
3. Admiral Kutzov
4. DeadlyNeprhons!
5. Bede
6. Greebley
7. Barbslinger

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_greeks.JPG

well, let's see whether after my turns we are still alive :eek:

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/HNDY13_550bc.sav)

Pre-Turn
situation looks pretty bleak, use leader to rush rax in Nicaea. this will free it up to build spears/archers as well

IT forest chop finishes walls in Varna
at Adrianople: we defend against 2 horses and 1 archer, 1 spear down to 1 hp, but we survive [3-0]
get a archer landing next to Cesarea

Varna walls -> cat

1.730BC
contemplate to attack archer with warrior, but let it be
our cats go 0/2 against 2 reg swords
reinforce Adrianople with 4th spear

IT sword and archer die at Adrianople, but 1 out of 2 warriors is defeated by archer 2/4 hp [5-1]

2.710BC
Cuzco is pillaged further
send elite spear to help out Caesarea and hope archer wont attack town

IT archer retreats. in fact no attacks, but Greeks beeline for our capital and Inca invade our country

3.690BC
need to raze lux to 20%
try and ping but we have only 2 cats there
at Caesarea bomb archer to 1hp with new cat, warrior promotes to vet beating it [6-1]
pull back a 3rd spear to Constantinople to pull Greeks to Adrianople

IT Greeks turn towards Adrianople now as wanted
silk spear gets attacked by archer down to 1hp, 2/3 archer
attacks but promotes our spear to elite [8-1]

4.670BC
Cuszo is disconnected and we see gems on a mountain

IT 3 Greek archer die at Adrianople, but Incans are storming our land, they ignore cities [11-1]
we learn writing, lit all but a distant dream at 20 turns :cry:

5.650BC
there are no archers to attack those invaders
archer in Varna takes out a horse [12-1]

this looks pretty bleak
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/handy13650.jpg

IT you won't believe it unless you would have seen it yourself, 14 (in words fourteen) units die at Adrianople, reducing all our spears to all but 1 hp. all their units attacked since we had wounded units
8 greek archers and the rest Incan units [26-1]
:worship: the RnG god

but we get a Incas horse landing and a spear archer combo runs into our land


6.630BC
situation the interturn after
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/handy13630.jpg

we now have 4 elite spears sitting in Adrianople
ping 2 units but we will get pillaged by spear
we will get 2 archer next turn

IT interestingly spear archer move towards Ceasarea and horse pillages the road, not the wheat. no attacks this turn

7.610BC
archer retreats horse and another archer takes it out [27-1]
cover both exposed archers with spears

IT 3 Greek archers waste themselves, the spear archer combo fortifies [30-1]

8. 590BC
spear archer go back to Varna on time to cover since archer appeared
ping fortified spear, they will retreat
army making its circles sees 2 workers at machu Pichu but cant reach them on time
archer at Adrianople kills a 2hp spear [31-1]

IT a horse tries to sneak in our silk road


9. 570BC
archer (just arrived last turn from Nicaea) kills that horse but goes 1/4 hp
Constantinople will grow next turn, swap to settler
archer at Adrianople kills another pinged archer
feeling bold we kill another 2 pinged archers and warrior takes out 1hp pillager spear [36-1]
need to hire a scientist for a turn in Varna

IT forgot to cover a 1hp archer and 2hp Inca scout impales promoting our hero :lol: [37-1]

10.550BC
Constatinople grows to 7, settler ready next turn, would send him east to settle away from active zone
left army unmoved for next player to decide which route to take

our homeland looks a little more 'quiet' now, time to build settlers and spears to expand our holdings
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/handy13550.jpg

our army before my turns
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/handy13650b.jpg

after
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/handy13650c.jpg

Hope lives! ...for now :lol: The power of walls.

Check to make sure we have pillaged the road to the Incan city that has iron under it. Then we'll only see sword production from 1 city.

Roster
1. Handy
2. ThERat exits the very hot seat
3. Admiral Kutzov takes the hot seat
4. DeadlyNeprhons!
5. Bede
6. Greebley
7. Barbslinger

I've finished playing with water, got it.

Tremendous job TheRat. I hope AK losses are as good as yours. 37-1...That's incredibly insane. :crazyeye:

I only tried to be obedient
We need some RNG luck to withstand the Greek first wave

anyway, one advise for AK, the AI seems to beeline for the weakest defense city. I saw all Greek archers heading for Constantinople (it had only 2 spears in it). Once I put another defender in there, it worked and they all headed to Adrianople. Adrianople and Varna are the preferred towns for attacks IMO since they have a river defense bonus as well.

I made one mistake though I feel. I should not have gone for literature, but MM and our UU. It might help us preventing those irritating landings. Sorry for that. :(


EDIT: by the way, I think this game is insanely difficult and the fact that we could pull even through until now with 5 cities (and soon 6) is outstanding. Maybe Greebley would tell me I am wrong, but that's what I felt. I almost attached the save before the IT at 5 to let you all enjoy the slug feast. (it's quite amazing to see those injured spears pull victory after victory)

EDIT: by the way, I think this game is insanely difficult
It is. If we had a choke point as in this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=99220) AWD game things would be a LOT easier.

(it's quite amazing to see those injured spears pull victory after victory) Yup, spears and walls are a powerful way to flush AI shields in the early going. Short term goal is to hang on until we can get to 8 cities for a second army. But the lack of iron had probably sealed our fate.

If we had a choke point as in this AWD game things would be a LOT easierwow I always thought it was SID, now I know what we are in for. I feel that a few wrong moves or average RnG will seal our fate. It could have easily gone wrong during my turns.

But the lack of iron had probably sealed our fate.Couldn't agree more, maybe there is some to the east which Greeks start to settle. We should explore some there with a spear.

To win AWD on a small map will not be easy. It is likely take several attempts.

wow I always thought it was SID

AW Sid win was this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95052) game which we won because of a good map, good civ and greebleys incredible opening 30 turns which are here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2030646&postcount=15)

Recon, no changes.

I'll just hit the highlights, since it was more of let them come, we will kill them. My record was 19-0 :). If anyone really wants the details, please advise.

In foreign news, Gandhi finished the GW.

In other news, I got Smyrna up and running in 450. Walls were added in 370. We're now down to 2 workers that I'm scared to use. Army was used to cover the workers to raod to Smyrna.

I got a little carried away so the year is 330BC, not 350 like it should be. All the moves should be left.

Hopefully nobody is too po'd about the city location, since I kinda unilaterally decided it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/HNDY13_330_BC.SAV

I will try to get a screenie up within the next 2 hours.

Got it. I'll do the same report type that AK did if noone objects. Unless something extraordinary happens like I kill another tribe or lose a city. I'll post the kill record too.

some screenies are nice, for example now that we have a new city, how does the situation look like etc. are we ready for another one? won't take too long to post that, no?

ok it took 4 hours instead of 2. Let the howls of rage begin. We're about ready to go the offensive against Ephesus. Then we can put another settler on the river on the east coast. Then learn to build real boats and back fill to the south.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Picture1.jpg need a spear or 2 on the mountain north of Varna.

IMHO we must send the army back to pillage that iron faster, that's really crucial and fill land for 8 cities, looking good now. AK, nice job on the kill-rate

IMHO we must send the army back to pillage that iron faster, that's really crucial and fill land for 8 cities, looking good now. AK, nice job on the kill-rate

Yes - we flush more AI shields if we pillage. We hurt the AI economy, waste worker turns, slow their units approach routes. Also, we must ensure our spears face arrows instead of swords to have a chance. Pillaging makes AW much easier for us and harder for the AI.

You guys have had excellent kill ratios. :thumbsup:

When Ephesus goes down, we've got room to drop 3 cities in interior lines. I needed the army to guard the workers. we've got enough of an army to go kill somethin'

Game looks good! I would love to play whıle here but they have odd electrıcal outlets here so I wıll have to waıt untıl Monday when I fly to Seattle. I am at an ınternet cafe.

Greetıngs from Istanbul!

Played.

T1- Shuffle some units.

2- change constant to settler

IT-leader in Varna. Hoplite lands in area.

3- Not much

IT- Hoplite moves.

4- catapults toward hoplite. CB in 8.

IT- hoplite pillaged

5- kill hoplite

IT- zzzzzz

6- try to assault Ephesus but miserably lose two archers without even scratching the hoplites. Then I realize it's on a hill. (We're not taking that until swords, I guaruntee)

IT- nothing

7- Not much

8- kill many things and take the mountain above varna.

9- The AI seems to find a disgusting sexual pleasure with suiciding on our army in Smyrna. :D


Oh and the kill rate. 31-3 Stinking Greek Hoplites kill us. :(

Screenie for inquiring minds.

Concur with Admiral and all that we need interior cities. Need help with placement though so if one of our more expert urban planners could work up a dot map I would be grateful and follow it to the letter, or the dot.

And got it.

EDIT:
Bede , why you became viper? :lol:
Tomoyo is now the Bede bookseller? what kind of joke is that? April fool's day nonsense?

I would still send out the army without delay. as for another town, the forest tile between Smyrna and Cesarea next IMO

my two cents. use the army to cover cats at ephesus. move archers under the army to attack RL units and then wipe the damn thing off the map. put a spear back on the silks (I'm paranoid). I don't understand the library at Constantinople. Can the grumpy old farts (i probably qualify for that moniker based on age) help me out? Let's get MM and go sink things. Tired of Alex's landings. Perhaps we can plan to grab incan horses?

We could change the Lib at Constantanople to the great libary. Or do we have a prebuild for it?

1. Handy
2. ThERat
3. Admiral Kutzov
4. DeadlyNeprhons!
5. Bede is UP
6. Greebley
7. Barbslinger

My $.02. We need to pillage with the army more than we need to get rid of that corrupt greek city. It is not nearly as important to them as the improved tiles around Athens are. Besides, we can't afford losses on offense. Pillaging roads keeps the AI from trading with each other.

Pillage, build cats, spear, archers and kick out a heavily fortified city here and there. Short term we need to get to 8 cities, and get another pillaging army. We have a chance agains arrows behind walls, but swords kill us over time. Pillaging is the best way to damage their economy and increase the the number of turns it takes them to build a unit.

I'd change the library to the great library. If we get it we have a chance. May as well try.

You can definitely change the Lib to GL if you want. I just did it because we need something with which to research with if we can't get the GL. I'd say go for it. If we don't get it, so much for this game. :)

Did Bede and Tomoyo switch login and passwords? The post count, location and avatars look little suspicious. :hmm:

Will have it up tonight.

170BC
Baddies attack at Adrianople, kill one, retreat 1 no losses 1-0

Move army out toward Incaland again.

Let the Library finish at Constantinople as 53 turns to the Great Library is just too many spears and archers.

150BC
Kill a wounded Incan horse at Adrianople 2-0

130BC
No new attacks but our army encounters an Incan Mace. I get a really bad feeling here.

Two Greek horsemen die at Smyrna but the third kills a spear and then an Incan horseman kills a second. 4-2

110BC
Kill the Incan horseman at Smyrna and reinforce the city 5-2

Pillage the roads to Vilcas and Inca are now ironless.

Kill an Incan spear at Adrianople 6-2

90BC
The first Incan mace arrives at Varna, retreated by cat fire. And that is pretty much how it goes from here on out. MAces and archers show up, maces get hurt by cat fire, archers attack and die.

70BC
Two maces appear at Varna, wounded by cat fire. But two Inca spears, a sword and an archer block the road to Smyrna. And an Inca spear is landed at Caesarea.

From 70BC to 50Ad we are holding on by a gossamer thread. The spear on the mountain at Varna was killed by advancing Inca maces. The Greek horsemen and hoplites returning from the Inca war are a continual nuisance. The hoplites are pillaging and the horsemen keep attacking and dying. Kill four horseman and a hoplite but lose an archer. 10-4

The Inca keep piling up archers and maces at Varna. The cats force the maces to retreat and the archers attack and die. Kill six more Inca archers and two Chasquis. 18-4

The spear army is making its way through Incaland scorching the earth as it goes.

Caesarea is cut off from the trade net at the moment but will reconnect soon.

Founded Heraclea between Caesarea and Smyrna.

The Greek troops trying to get back to the homeland are more of a nuisance than a threat as the horsemen are easily killed but the hoplites are tougher. Lost a pop point at both Constaninople and Caesarea due to Greek troops occupying grassland squares. It is the Inca that have me worried at the moment. I don't want to lose archers trying to kill their maces so they retreat and heal up then come back again.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/hndy13_50AD_00.jpg

No new attacks but our army encounters an Incan Mace. I get a really bad feeling here

that's what we got since we stopped pillaging...tough nut this game, any chance of getting town #8 up?

Need to get the homing Greeks out of the territory first, I think. There is what appears to be an almost inexhaustible supply of Greek horsemen coming in frrm the north.

It's only a flesh wound!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/HNDY13_Black_Knight.jpg

Greebley is up - and he can make the call. Play on or roll another start. We could stack the deck a little and play an agricultural and militaristic civ. Maybe a friendly lurker could scout a map for us to make sure we have either iron, horses or a choke point near our start.

FWIW, the AWS I'm playing solo on a standard island map is MUCH easier than this one.

Roster
1. Handy
2. ThERat
3. Admiral Kutzov
4. DeadlyNeprhons!
5. Bede
6. Greebley
7. Barbslinger

I think the main reason this game looks so bad and has no real future hope is that we didn't get the GL. I mean, pillaging army(s) or not, the enemy would still eventually get cavalry where we'd still have pikes and trebs and walk all over us. Not having iron is another thorn in our butts. :p

But what happened to my sword?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/HNDY13_Black_Knight.jpg

It's all about the iron.

I don't think this is winnable. It has multiple things that kill it - the lack of Glib and no Iron together is insurmountable. We don't get an attack 4 unit until we research Invention and I don't see us being able to keep the Greeks out of territory with archers - we would need more Catapults than our economy can support.

BTW, how did we not end up with a prebuild for the GLib? We will need to prioritize that more if we try again. I like starting to build it by the time the 4th town is built. We need that big jump in tech or we are too far behind.

sounds like it's time for a reroll.

well, let's re-roll, but maybe we should either

a. get someone as handy suggested to play some for us or
b. as in greebleys game play each 25 turns and pick the best start?


what do you all think?

anyway, at least that game had the finest moment of C3C for me during that IT with incredible defense

Does anyone not want to try again?

And...I like how we had multiple palyers look for a start in GRO4. I'll start a new thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2673364#post2673364) where any of you that care to roll a start can do so. :D

:bump: for the HNDY14 thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2673364#post2673364)