Okay, every SG in this forum is about winning the game, no matter how difficult that looks at any given point of time.

Well, I'm a little bored of winning all the time.

I want to lose a game.

Of course, doing that would be the simplest thing in the world - so of course there will have to be some restrictions.

Put it simply, the aim of this game - if it's at all feasible - is to not only deliberately lose the game, but to push a chosen AI into winning the game, hopefully with a VC of our choice.

VCs that would be good to lose by:
- Space or UN, obviously.
- 100k - a little trickier to set up.
- 20k - now that would be impressive.
- I'd rather not lose by Domination or Conquest.

Things we could do to help:
- Building a Wonder and gifting it to the AI!
- Giving them every tech we research.
- Fighting wars on their behalf, and returning to them any of their cities lost to other Civs.
- Gifting them resources, luxes, gold, RoP, MAs, whatever they need.

What we shouldn't overlook:
- Making sure we're strong enough to cover our backs, do our own research, etc. We have to be able to help our chosen friend out with whatever we choose, after all!

Choice of Civ:
- A Scientific Civ would be handy, for increased SGL chances (so we can build cool stuff for our friend) and obviously the free era-advance tech, to give away.
- Any other trait would be fine, though Commercial could be handy. I'd go for Korea or Greece.

Level & map:
- Emperor, standard, continents, 70%, random weather, age, barbs, and opponents.

So, how silly does this concept seem? Can it be done? Would anyone want to give it a go? Or am I just stark raving bonkers and in need of medication?

Neil. :cool:

P.S. I probably won't be starting anything 'til after the Easter w/e - I'm away from (way to early on) Friday morning, until Monday evening (GMT/BST).

Hmmmm... This sounds interesting. I'd like to join.

I think that maybe the last civ to be contacted would be the chosen civ. That way we could expand as much as necessary and not harm that civ.

I think that space, Dom, & Con would be way too easy to get the other civ to win. The UN would be a little more difficult and as you said the culture victories would be hard unless the civ would be a culture monster anyway.

Don't be so sure about Space. The AI can be very, very, reluctant to build SS parts when it has other things to worry about (like fighting a war with an AI reduced to an OCC on the other side of the map).

The RBC crew tried this twice. First time they failed, but I think the second time they got X-man to launch a ship.

I'm definitely interested, this is way stupid enough for me to put all efforts into our valiant common goal; count me in - if you don't PH34R a demi+ virgin is not enough

eldar, seems like a nice concept. i was sure youd have filled it up by noe.
lucky you didnt.
sign up?

I'd like to join. This sounds like it would be interesting.

I guess Tomoyo has done a similar Solo game,he called the first met Civ "Sakura",and helped her launch the ship.

Actually, I helped her win diplo. Well... I kinda cheated since I killed all but one other civ before holding the vote...

Okay, seems there's enough interest for me to roll up a start or two when I get back Monday.

@Tomoyo - there a link to the RBC game or any others? I'd be interested to see what happened.

I think we'll need plenty of Workers, and an RoP with our 'friend'; AI workers being what they are, we'll be wanting to re-do some of their "enhancements".

My preference would go to Korea, since it's kinda hard to avoid making hoplites, and then an early GA isn't necessarily what we're gonna be looking for.

I'd rather not have the very starting moves, given I'm the new face around in this roster and I don't want to instill massively hysterical panic on your poor nerves for leaving the opening to the crazy canuck. Btw, just call me B if you wanna, that's how I usually go by.

On a side note, should we make it a 24h got it - 72h play it?

Looking forward to face death and glory :salute:

If there's still a spot left, I'd like to join. Korea would be interesting for me as I've never played them; I always thought of the Koreans in Civ as being a bad version of the Greeks and thus not worthwhile playing.

Okay, seems there's enough interest for me to roll up a start or two when I get back Monday.

@Tomoyo - there a link to the RBC game or any others? I'd be interested to see what happened.

I think we'll need plenty of Workers, and an RoP with our 'friend'; AI workers being what they are, we'll be wanting to re-do some of their "enhancements".RBD19 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43926)

Fully agreed to points 1,3,8,9,10, 11,12 of the RBD19... and the suggestion of T-Hawk, just 1 post below, to be the canadians: the most helpful sidekicks the americans got (and buried) for modern aeronautics.

Just lurking around to find out how SG's work so not really signing up (seem full anyways). Wouldn't it be possible to build a 20K city and just gift it before it booms?
Cool set up BTW :goodjob:

Wouldn't it be possible to build a 20K city and just gift it before it booms?AFAIK, Culture doesn't transfer with captured or gifted cities. All that would do is transfer all of the wonders to the other civ. No culture, just mostly obsolete wonders.

Any culture giving improvements are dumped, and wonders no longer give culture, when they are gifted :( So it's a no-go

edit: Sorry X-posted

Well, then a 20K would ideed be impressive :D

IIRC, X-Man was dangerously close to a dom win. It was a surprisingly tough variant, and a great read.

First, this is C3C of course, not mentined but I hope implicit :)

Okay, the roster we have looks like:
eldar
TR
SW
Beorn-eL-Feared
Cuivienen

I'll look at the RBC link tomorrow (I was driving for 5 1/2 hours today - going through a whole game thread would be a bit much!); for now a start and 20 turns will suffice.

We're still going to need a base and won't be choosing our target for a bit, I'm guessing. I'll also go with Korea, despite it just cropping up for COTM11.

Here's the start:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_4000BC.jpg

And F10:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_F10.jpg

Let's see what's out there.

I guess we'll have better chances of finding a cow/wheat tile within radius if we stay put rather than walk to the ocean, so my take is to stay there and start working on the west BG, unless something more obvious comes up.
I'd also research pottery at max and go warr->gran first, assuming we don't get 3+ food tiles at arm's lenght.

Looks like fish by the river mouth. If we're not going coastal, I'd rather move 1SW so we don't get any coast tile in the 21.

I'd be more inclined to move to the coast and build a Curragh, but a Curragh won't be as effective as a non-Seafaring civ so inland works, too. Just don't stay put.

I thought move to coast, Warrior, Warrior, Curragh, Settler, might be a good sequence.

Finally kicked it off.

There wasn't much to log, so I didn't do a full log.

Highlights:
3950BC Founded Seoul by the coast. Build order was Warrior, Warrior, Curragh, Settler. Research was Pottery @ Max, currently Writing @ Max.

3150BC Curragh met a Scandinavian Warrior, they are up Masonry, CB, WC.

3050BC Popped a hut by Seoul, got Barbs. IT: Warrior redlined by a Barb.

Seoul is currently working the fish to get the extra gold for a turn; the Settler will still finish next turn. Granary would be a good build next, and I suggest the Settler goes to the Red Dot (below) - there's Game in one of the
Forests. Expand along the river SE of Seoul, and see what's across that narrow neck of land.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_3000BC.jpg

Neil. :cool:

I wanted to join too :( Did you miss my post earlier?

I wanted to join too :( Did you miss my post earlier?

Sorry, you're in :) - here's the full roster anyroad:
eldar <- just played
Tubby_Rower <- up next
soul_warrior <- on deck
Hirachi Divano
Beorn-eL-Feared
Cuivienen

Ok got it finally. I had trouble getting to my computer yesterday and Tuesday I was travelling all day.

So Do we know yet who we are going to help win? Is it the first civ to be met? What is the chosen VC for our "buddy"?

We've only met Ragnar so far. I think we'll pass up trying to persuade that particlarly uncouth barbarian to do what we decide he's going to do (other than perhaps vacate the planet at the point of a pointy thing).

Do you have culturally linked starts on? If so it's surprising that we haven't met Mao or Ghandi yet.

No culturally-linked starts - that actually trips a bug that means all the meso-American civs start in the game with you.

I'm inclined to pick one of the Scientific civs, one on our continent, and of them all, I'd like it to be the Babs. Germany, I don't want to be around when they get Panzers. Ottos, the same with their Sipahi. They're both dangerous to contain in the late game.

SS is probably the best win to go for, but with the Babs, they're likely to get to 100K if we allow them to sprawl....

that actually trips a bug that means all the meso-American civs start in the game with youreally? I didn't know that. I've never noticed it. But then again, I don't know if I normally have it set or not.

really? I didn't know that. I've never noticed it. But then again, I don't know if I normally have it set or not.
If you had it, chances are you'd never ever be willing to play anything with the Aztecs and Incas in them. I would almost have quit once if I didn't find out about removing Culturally Linked Starting Positions ;)

2550 BC save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_tub_2550BC.SAV)

Not much happened. I lost the warrior by the barbs after healing him in our territory then taking out one of them. We met Spain They came from the south. The are up Masonry, WC, & CB. Vikings have The Wheel as well as all of Spain's techs. They also have 62 gold. It looks like they are going to be the early tech leader. I found Trondheim almost directly SE of us.

Founded the city on the grassland on the red dot. I'm using this city has built one warrior and in the process of building another. It should probably be a military factory occassionally squeezing out a settler or worker. Seoul is building a granary.

We have found wines SE-E of the warrior in eldar's picture above. Nothing much else has changed since we lost our scouting warrior and I didn't want to leave our two cities undefended since we are behind enough as it is.

eldar
Tubby_Rower <- just played
soul_warrior <- up next
Hirachi Divano <- on deck
Beorn-eL-Feared
Cuivienen

gots it, will post tomorow, due to lack of regular internet for the next few days.
plans for turns...
keep pumping warriors, finish granary, explore a bit?
hope for a trade op.

Yeah, we must be due Writing soon... see if we can find one of the Sci civs on our turf.

eldar04 - sw
pre turn - move the worker to connect pingpong. see that writing due in 29 (not 3, eldar ;) ) so i guess no deals yet.

1- move curragh
2- repeat. see pink borders - contact next turn.
3- we meet Mao. he is polite and has Mas, Wheel, WC and CB on us. what do they feed those china girls?
4- pingpong warrior > warrior (i wound have prefered a rax, but we need explorers NOW). worker finishes road and mines BG.
warrior heads SW (heh, heh, i slippied myself in)
5- movement
6- see a spanish wounded thug, i guess conan scratched him.
7- seoul granary > warrior (needs more pop. can squeeze it in now but will drop to 1 pop :nono: )
lower sci to 80 (due in 21 instead of 16, for a +1gpt instead of losing it)
8- pingpong warrior > curragh. warrior to scout SE.
9- seoul warrior > warrior (in 2) heads E.
10- worker moved to road game. conitued movement.

summary.
met Mao.
all up MAS, WC,CB. (mao also has Wheel), Ragnar now has IRON WORKING :suicide:

all i can say is... i pity the foooool (gold chains dangling and dingling)

our land (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eladr04_sw_12.jpg)

:banana::banana: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_sw_2150BC.SAV)

rightmost dot sounds like the most urgent, since :viking: could lay their hands on it - and that ain't no good for us

Got it----

I have to skip.... I found out today that I'm going to have too much work to play until the end of the week. Sorry :(

Got it, will play it tomorrow most likely.

I'd race for the wines and go more about growth after. I'd be for a chop chop of the game forest since it has plenty of shields as is and it could make a beautiful 6-turner. All inputs welcome.

1- Start chopping. Seoul Warrior -> Settler. Fortify warrior for MP.
2-Movement
3-PingPong curragh -> granary
4-Movement
5- Spot Spanish borders and incense right by. I take it they will settle there before settling on wines and gamble to finish a long awaited barrack in Seoul before the next settler. Jumbo will play cross-check if he needs to. Magellan the intello westmost scout fortifies near a barb camp. Send one MP from Seoul to PingPong(renamed officially), he'll be there next turn. Lux up.

IBT Spanish settler comes near the incense

6- Lux and Sci down 1 notch. Irrigating the game. Spot a :viking: scout ALL the way down where our curragh is.

IBT Spanish settles on the incense. Sweat bullets now start to calm down on my neck, still have vikings to race however.

7- 60/30 budget for happiness. Looking forward to squeeze a couple workers off Seoul.

IBT Magellan survives some barbs, fortified to rest.

8- Jumbo spots wines, a :viking: settler and a random barb. There's fresh meat on the table tonight most likely.

IBT Fresh meat was the barbs, eaten by a :viking: warrior. Vikings settle on their wines.

9- Irrigation done, PingPong now has +4fpt, growth in 1, granary in 9
10- 1750BC Granary and growth in 5 for PingPong, I'd watch it so it doesn't make the granary after growing. Man they're all rich bastards. Settler in 1 at Seoul. Barracks ready. Need MP and workers from Seoul, start to think 6-turn factory for PingPong. We might have a shot at the western incense if we play our things carefully, and that'd be sweet.

A more general long term question: should we expand wide and backfill or place cities more closely together, after the wines city?

so we're building settlers in both cities? that's good. How's the tech trading situation lining up? What level is this again? Are we trying for the Republic slingshot I assume??

This is Emperor. If we can MM the Granary to finish the turn before growth, that's optimal.

I think it'll be a problem to get granary finished before growth, without delaying it. If we can, it'll be by MM'ing a mined BG off Seoul. Beware of the invisible bonus grasses, I don't know for you guys but they didn't show up to me.

Trading situation is: they are rich, we are not. That simple. Haven't got a worker trading opportunity either. Emperor is the diff level.

:bump:
eldar <- on deck
Tubby_Rower
soul_warrior
Hirachi Divano
Beorn-eL-Feared <- just played
Cuivienen <- up now

I PM'ed Cuivienen earlier this morning around 8am EDT ( ~ 4 hours ago). I'm not sure if she is going to respond or not. It'll be a week tomorrow from the last save that was posted. Do we want to skip her or wait another day? I'm not giving up on this game if I have to play it, post it, talk to myself, then play the next set.

lmao tubby, I guess we should skip ... there's no 24/72 rule posted, but after a week, I wouldn't feel guilty for her :rolleyes:

i say "walk the plank, dear lady, walk the plank"
a skip after a week is more than fair.

and maybe we should instate a flexible 24-48 rule?
we can all read these messages, the least we can do is post a "i got it, but wont be able to play tonight" or whatever, right?

Sorry, I've not been very good at keeping tabs on my own game... too wrapped up in others! It's a definite skip, I'll get this moving again this evening. I'm postponing my start of GOTM42 'til my wife flies out to see her folks on Wednesday ;)

Sorry about this, I lost computer privileges for the past week. I'll be back on Monday.

No worries :)

Sorry about this, I lost computer privileges for the past week. I'll be back on Monday.
Any news on the grounded front???? Does this Monday have a month associated with it?

Grr. I keep forgetting to start this ball re-rolling. And I won't be able to this evening, either.

Any news on the grounded front???? Does this Monday have a month associated with it?
and i thought i was sarcastic :rolleyes: . have some mercy on the poor girl. imagine a whole week with no civ, and cringe in fear :lol:

I didn't mean to be so harsh but if she couldn't play she should have at least had the courtesy to let us know. I feel bad for her for not being able to play, but I'm sure that something was done (or not done) to deserve it. As a fairly new parent, I'm starting to lose sympathy for the disciplinee.

I've lost my disciplinee sympathy a couple years ago and I don't quite have kids yet ... so the month thing is a really good one from my standpoint :rotfl:

:wavey: Skip me up to Tues 26th, then I'll be back and report for duties :salute:

ok.
im taking some initiative here.
i will play the next set tomorow morning, hoping this gets it rolling again.
Carpe Diam!!! (hiding from the hordes of :ninja: i know are coming now)

I was assuming that eldar was playing since his wife is MIA with the in-laws. I'll be at my parents until Sunday evening starting tomorrow afternoon and won't have civ but will have internet access. So keep those screenies coming.

eldar 04 SW 1750bc-1500bc

preturn NADA
1-Seoul settler > warrior. Magellan rests his weary bones. we spot tusks NE of Rykavik. i see AC's coming our way soon.
2-move and rest
3-Seoul warrior > warrior. lower lux to 20.
4- writing is in. start philo in 30 :cry: 50%. Pingpong granary > settler, Magellan moves to get that booty.
5-Seoul warrior > settler, Wonsan built near wines > warrior, checking deals i find that Isabella is the only one without Writing, while they are ALL up about 6 techs.
Magellan promotes gaining us much needed cash.
Issa wants 20g, 2gpt and Writing for Mas and WC. i :cry: and count it out as i believe we need archers and MAS. we will keep pumping the settlers for cash.
5-i guess the people like being poor, as the donated a lawn. Issa wants a big, blond guy next to her, but cant get any. she starts building a prototype guy.
lux up to 30 to avoid riots. now -3gpt.
6-our heroic curraghs complete the tour and meet off the chinese town Nanking. they are dubbed THE NANTWINS.
Pingpong settler > settler, running VERY low on cash.
9-missed some loging but all is in, just no dates attached.
Seoul settler > archer, Wonsan warrior > worker,
had to lower sci to 10 so we wont lose money.
settler heads west. Magellan is at a choke to block spanish theft of our incense. if were lucky we can also land teh furs down there.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_sw_southchoke.JPG

sci at 10% and just ONE coin in the box. we are desperate for cash.
also note the huge amout of traffic to our east.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_sw_eastbrew.JPG
:confused: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_sw_1500bc.SAV)

Well, at least we've got this thing rolling again. I think that the learned book dealer once said to research max or not at all. dropping pennies in the science bucket just doesn't cut it. Maybe we're too behind to compete well. But we're supposed to lose anyway right. All we need is some luck somewhere somehow. Thanks for getting things rolling again SW.

eldar <- kicking GOTM42 butt.
Tubby_Rower <- in SC or would play. NO civ just internet
soul_warrior <- just cried like a sissy over tech situation ;)
Hirachi Divano <- up now
Beorn-eL-Feared <- out of town til 26th
Cuivienen <- still grounded and skipped next time around dropped?

Thanks for rolling the ball :) Yeah, research at Max is better than 10% research, even if it doesn't seem that way. You're still dumping more coins in the coffer, for when you get the cashflow going.

With all those rivers, we should be okay... it's just things are looking cramped. A war with Izzie may be brewing.

If they get mapmaking anytime soon, they'll settle the furs, so I think we have a better shot at racing the incense if we don't go directly for the furs with one of the setlers we've got now.

Then, Izzie has incenses, only Ragnar would go for the incense west, and we would have a shot at them, too. I'd go for that because the terrain is crappy around incense anyways.

:bump: :whipped:

Roster:
eldar <- up.
Tubby_Rower <- :gripe:
soul_warrior <- starting up in SW5
Hirachi Divano <- in the same boat as Cuivienen
Beorn-eL-Feared <- out of town til 26th
Cuivienen <- still grounded and skipped next time around dropped?

Figured I ought to play this... *cough*

Idiot-stylee:
Early: Eek! (see below)

Middle: decided we, er, didn't need the Barracks in Seoul.

Late: We have more cities! Hurrah!

Okay, the heart-in-mouth moment:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_help!.jpg

What happened next?!


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_phew!.jpg

Phew! Thank you heroic Spanish (or was it Chinese? colours are too similar for my eyes!) Warrior!


More's the point, here we are in 1250BC:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_1250BC.jpg

The Settler could finish in 1, but switch to the Forest next turn to time it with growth to size 6.

I have the Incense area locked down, but if Lizzie gets Map Making soon (and she probably will), I doubt we'll secure the Furs.

Other than that... Settlers from PingPong (should be able to do Warrior/Settler from sizes 4-6 soon enough). Archers from Seoul, with the odd Worker before it hits 6.

Neil. :cool:

nice save with that heroine. *opps, blew your spoiler*
good to hear one game im in is going ok. i think i just lost the arab invasion. on regent. i think i will run along back to kindergarden now :bounce:

Ok I can play tonight.

please do tubby, make me proud, make me happy.

QSC save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_tub_1000BC.SAV)

We have a couple of settlers moving down to claim the incense and furs. Ping pong is generating settlers at a good clip. Seoul is due for a worker build after the next archer or two. It's building an archer every other turn. Cheju was planted on horses and workers are currently making a path to that city. We are starting to look good.

Philosophy came in and I traded like we'd get the free tech but no dice. The other continent might be booming. I did get us caught up. we are now only behind IW & Myst. China also has jumbos so it will be interesting to see who gets the SoZ.

Dot map for lux cities
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_1000BC.JPG

Preturn- bump lux to prevent pinog pong from rioting

T1- Seuol barracks -> archer
switch prefs to slow down AI units
switch Cheju to curraph to explor NE island
drop sci Phil still in 3

t2- Pingpong settler -> settler
start suicied run off west coast

IT: Kicked out by Vikings
see barb on fur island

t3- Pusan worker -> worker
suicide curraph dies
start another suicide off of southern Western shore
hire taxman in Seoul to prevent going red and keep phil due next turn

IT: kicked out by chinese

t4- learn Philo -> goto big picture
trade Philo to Mao for MAth, CB, & 46G
trade Philo, Math 46G, & 3gpt to Izzy for MM & wheels
trade Vikings Philo for HBR straight up
Seoul Archer -> archer
Izzy established embassy in our capital
no currency so switched to CoL
drop lux to 10 & sci currently @ 50%


t5- Nampo worker -> worker
suicide lost
bump lux to 20%
moving all workers to road to Wonsan (wines) & Cheju (horses)

t6- zz

t7- Seoul Archer -> archer
MM Seoul & Pingpong to make sure I get settler next turn in PP

t8- Pingpong settler -> settler
re-MM Seoul & PP
pillaged banana road near China

t9-road on wines complete
Mao gives us the boot
seoul archer -> archer


t10- MM Ping pong
roading to Cheju
wines should be connected to seoul & PP next turn

Move the Blue Dot 1NW to the Desert.
Light Blue doesn't belong, but a Settler by the Oasis would be nice.
A city on the choke will be helpful as a canal, me might want to move Namp'o 1SW to take advantage of it at some point.

got it. post tonight.

I'm sorry, eldar, but I'm going to have to back out of this game. Well actually all of my games. I realized last night that I'm spending way too much time playing civ and not enough time with my family. I'm becoming obsessed with Civ every waking moment I either want to play it or talkto someone about it. I'm going to tell my wife to hide the CD (but not break it which is what she'd rather do). I'm sorry to do this to you but I have to. I'll be lurking around because I really don't think that I can quit cold turkey.

Thanks for all of the help that you guys have given me.

too bad Tubby.
but they all come back, every one of them.
my guess is we havent heard the last of you.

BTW, playing the set now.

but they all come back, every one of them.
my guess is we havent heard the last of you.
If I had to guess, it will be when civ4 comes out in the fall, but yes I will be back and active again. For now I'll be lurking. I'm going to try to get an advisor spot on a SGOTM team. That way it's almost the same as playing and I can still have something to do during lulls at work.

Tubby, many have to go through that kind of things, but not enough actually do. Have fun out there, and come back moderately when you do. Going back to the family is never a loss. Nice to have met, it was short but pleasant.

I'll probably be next! Finish SGs, finish my HoF QC, then take a break 'til Autumn.
At least, I'd like to think I could manage that, but they keep coming out with a new XOTM every fortnight....

the xOTM is what's killing me. Finishing those is very tedious since I started winning them. If I have the game available, I know that I'll play it. I'm pretty competitive so I love to play in these things. I just have a priority sorting issue in my head.

eldar sw 1000bc-800bc

preturn lower lux to 20, uping sci a notch.gain 2gpt CoL in 17 instead of 22.

1-Seoul archer > worker, settler moves closer to that oasis. Maggelan kills a barb.
3-Seoul worker > archer, Wonsan rax > archer, Pusan worker > warrior, Istanbul finished the Oracle.
4-Hyangsan built > worker, lower lux to 10.
5-spanish start pyramids.
6-Seoul archer > settler, Pingpong settler > cat, spot one of cathy's lad near our inscence. lucky we got a settler on hand there.
7-Nampo worker > warrior, Cheju galley > harbor,
Trondheim finishes colossus and starts GLight.
8- i see that diego is alone, keep running for the furs. spanish start pyramids and GLight.
9-Seoul settler > archer, load up an archer and settler on the galley and head east.
10- Pingpong cat > warrior, Wonsan archer > archer.

watch out for that spanish warrior in the west.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar_sw_28.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar_sw_29.jpgthe save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_sw_800bc.SAV)

Don't settle on the White Dot, it'll waste a perfectly good hill in an area with otherwise rubbish terrain. Settle 1NW instead.

Don't settle on the White Dot, it'll waste a perfectly good hill in an area with otherwise rubbish terrain. Settle 1NW instead.
right you are.
thats why i keep losing stupid games :D

Roster and :bump: time:
eldar <- sitting back comfortably
soul_warrior <- just boogied
Hirachi Divano <- up? here?
Beorn-eL-Feared <- on deck
Cuivienen <- MIA
Tubby_Rower <- Grounded by choice, here in spirit

I'm going to advertise for a couple new players to replace TR and Cuivienen.

@eldar - yep, you do that. the strain is starting to show, and with SGOTM7 coming up...

OK, I'll sign up. That is, if eldar isn't tired of seeing me in every game he plays. :) Just put me a spot or two down in the roster so I have a chance to read through the thread and get up to speed.

Did you ever decide who exactly it is that you're trying to help win? Or which victory condition to aim for?

Welcome on board :)

One of the other Scientific Civs was going to be our "pal", but as they're both on the other continent... In an emergency, China, but they're scary and aggressive.

As for the VC, it'll probably be Space, but if we can pull UN or 100K that would work too.

me wanna kill all!!!!
think i just has too many bourbouns. did we?
i say kill alll.
okeee
me go away.
kill aztecs in a solo game.
remmember pupils, NEVER drink and drive.
g'night.

ps eldar -pls post an updated roster, seems to have sluipped my mind

Just as long as you leave the Inca alone. They're mine, all mine....

Don't you guys see the Inca are just the puppets of the Aztecs? Montezuma is not to be trusted, beware.

Hirachi sounds dead, so unless he pops out, I'll play tomorrow night.

Roster and time:
eldar
soul_warrior
Hirachi Divano <- skipped
Beorn-eL-Feared <- up
Minute Man <- on deck
Cuivienen <- MIA
Tubby_Rower <- Grounded by choice, here in spirit

I think that that is the second time that Hirachi was skipped. Sound like the roster is more like this.....

eldar
Whispers to Horses
Beorn <- Up
MM <- On deck

Swims Upriver with No Civ <- Lurking feverishly

how about Whispers to Horses instead of Jive Talker?, eh, Swims Upriver with No Civ ;)

Sure, I was just recalling some of the mind boggling speak that came from you in your SGs. I've edited see post above.

EDIT::::BTW, SW, I love you location. Hope your training goes well

1st off, we have a bunch of military, and horses connected, so all military builds are re-routed to Horsemen, all barrackless warriors strongly reconsidered.
Pre-Turn: Archers and warriors changed to worker, granary, horsemen depending.

IT: Phew, Spanyard dude boy leaves our place unscathed.

T1: I really have no clue about where we should settle those dudes in the galley, and there is a very nice spot with 2 games right by so I drop them off the coast and go explore the shore we see up in the north.
Image from the future:http://www.mat.ulaval.ca/~fbolduc/B/GHisland.jpg

IT: Vikings settle for one of the 2 games :wallbash:

T2: Seoul Horsemen->Settler, horses sent west for barb patrol.

IT: Survive barb attacks.

T3: Hyangsan worker->harbor, Found Ulsan:Barracks, PyongSong and Inch'on: harbors.

T4: CoL->Republic; we now have the FP threshold. We have avg/avg/strong(vs spain) military, I guess we can plan on taking advantage of it soon enough with horses, before republic will kick in.

IT: Spot a chinese warrior attacking a viking town. Perhaps we could pick China as little brother and help them defeat the evil red bearded ones.

T5: Settler out of Seoul headed north for the goody hut, along with some obsolete warrior that likes snow.

T6: Barb patrolling. I still have not traded CoL, because I don't know how much we could have for it - all the techs we see are IW and mysticism ... perhaps they are up construction, polytheism, monarchy ... who knows(well, not monarchy, that we can know).

IT7: Isa demands us out, which we abide, and our barb patrolling horse becomes elite.

T8: Found Taejon, last non-tundra city spot east of the Seoul river.

T9: Bella demands CoL, we say no, she says ok. Loser. Mao would not pay much for CoL, but Bella and Ragnar would give both IW, Myst and their gold. I won't risk China discovering it before we make our cash out of it, so:
CoL to Spain for IW, Myst and 71 gold.
All 3 have construction, so I buy for CoL, 168+6gpt - it won't get cheaper.
CoL to China for 54 gold.
Now Bella and Mao are up Polytheism, chances are they both research Monarchy as we speak.

There are 3 irons on the map: one ours, one Viking, one Chinese. None roaded.

T10: PingPong will need to be microed this way: On your first turn, lux up and work the 2f 1g grassland tile to get 4 food, then change to the roaded forest tile by the river(1f2s2g) for 2 turns. With the chop, you'll be smoothly making a 3 turn settler out of it on the population growth.

We need a couple more settlers to fill the west peninsula and we'll be good to go. Incense will be roaded in 2 or 3 turns. Our iron is on a hill in the desert.

http://www.mat.ulaval.ca/~fbolduc/B/eldar550.jpg

Roster:
eldar <- On Deck
Whispers to Horses
Beorn
MM <- Up

looking nice, polar bear.

maybe i just missed it somehow, but did we pick our winner yet?
are we waiting till mid MA or so to see how things stabilize?

Got it. I'll try to get this played sometime today.

are we waiting till mid MA or so to see how things stabilize?

I think we should pick somebody fairly soon. It's be kind of lame if we just wait for a front-runner to emerge and then decide to help them win.

I'm a little annoyed we don't have any Sci civs available.

So far we have:
- Scandinavia. No, they're just not up to it.
- Spain. A could-be, if they weren't in the way.
- China. A very dangerous trade-off but they are possibles.

- China. A very dangerous trade-off but they are possibles.
whats love got to do with it?
oi say lets go give mao a nice long hug.
everybody needs somebody to love, right?

If we had to pick right now, I'd pick Spain. I just don't feel like the :viking: and those chinese make me freak out, they're just too freaking many out there, they could run over the world with chopsticks.

Preflight: Spend a few minutes looking around. Everything looks pretty good. We don't have nearly enough military to mount an offense, so the question of who we're going to attack and who we're going to help is obviously not going to be settled on my turns.

IT - Ragnar welcomes me to the game by demanding 21 gold. I'm not going to risk a war over a token sum like that, so I pay him.

1 - 530 BC PingPong barracks->settler.

PingPong unhappy, so lux to 20%.

2 - 510 BC Wonsan horse->horse.

Siberia founded on the northern island. It's a good thing our warrior likes snow, because there's nothing else there. The goody hut gives us Polytheism. :cool: Looks like none of the AI have Monarchy yet.

3 - 490 BC Seoul horse->horse. Pusan granary->barracks. Cheju harbor->barracks.

We are informed that Germany has built the ToA.

Scandinavia has Currency now, but we have nothing to trade. Incense is hooked up, so reduce lux back to 10%.

4 - 470 BC PingPong settler->warrior. Send the new settler to the western Peninsula.

5 - 450 BC :sleep:

6 - 430 BC PingPong warrior->settler.

The Spanish just landed a settler pair immediately south of the choke point on the western peninsula. So it looks like there's going to be a Spanish city between Pyongsong and Hyangsan, which I don't like, but there's not much I can do about it.

IT - Yep, the Spanish found Murcia. :(

7 - 410 BC Seoul horse->settler. Wonsan horse->horse.

I'm not sure whether we're going to want that settler, but I'm going with it for now. Next player feel free to veto.

The Vikings just founded Hareid on the small patch of tundra north of Ulsan. Ragnar must be running out of places to settle. We should definitely keep an eye on that guy.

8 - 390 BC :sleep:

9 - 370 BC :sleep:

10 - 350 BC PingPong settler->horse. Cheju barracks->horse.

Not quite sure what to do with PingPong next. Next player feel free to change.

Here's the current situation on the western peninsula:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04-350BC.jpg

Note: I left the settler pair unmoved. I recommend founding in place and then building another city at the blue dot. It's tighter than I would normally want to build, but most of the overlap is useless dirt, so I think it's best to squeeze in the extra city. But feel free to move the settler somewhere else if you disagree.

The yellow dot is about the only other place we have left to settle. After that, it's probably time to start figuring out which neighbor we want to whack.

nice boring set MMan
Note: I left the settler pair unmoved. I recommend founding in place and then building another city at the blue dot. It's tighter than I would normally want to build, but most of the overlap is useless dirt, so I think it's best to squeeze in the extra city. But feel free to move the settler somewhere else if you disagree.

The yellow dot is about the only other place we have left to settle. After that, it's probably time to start figuring out which neighbor we want to whack.
i agree. i think ragface will make our choice obvious enough in the immediate future.
how about letting Raggie choose for us? whomever he attacks - we baby nurse back to victory?

Helping Ragface ... alright.

We need to take over Murcia one way or the other, it's a key spot for sea travel for them, and it could be for us

No I think what SW was talking about is to buddy up with whoever the Viking hordes invade.

If they invade us, who will we buddy up with. I'd suggest Spain so we can sign in China (remember the rule to not sign MA's with our little buddy)

No I think what SW was talking about is to buddy up with whoever the Viking hordes invade.
that is exactly what i meant

If they invade us, who will we buddy up with. I'd suggest Spain so we can sign in China (remember the rule to not sign MA's with our little buddy)
sounds tempting

Tempting indeed

Just cuz one hadn't been plopped out there in a while

Roster:
eldar <- Up
Soul Warrior <- on Deck
Beorn
MM <- just played

Got it.890

That would've been a boring set of turns, but I got so bored I declared on the Vikings once the gpt deal ended. Took 3 cities (Rekjavik, Stavanger, Oslo), razed a fourth (Hareid).

Next player might want a quick regroup and healing up before pressing on, but the general aim is to head towards Trondheim.

As for our bestest buddy... well Mao built the Pyramids, and Spain is starting to put cultural pressure on us.

Republic next turn, research has already been adjusted. Should be able to get most missing techs & gold for it - Monarchy is available so get that first obviously.

Suicide Galleys! Need suicide Galleys!

Anyway, piccies courtesy of CivAssist2:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_west_150BC.jpg
West - we can squeeze a new city in with the settler being built. We'll have Viking furs before the harbor is built, anyway.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_east_150BC.jpg
East - main theatre of war, with the former spot where Hareid was marked. Settler building in a size 6 town with no aqueduct.

Neil. :cool:

groovy pix.
got it
will play soonest - hopefully friday morning, otherwise saturdaay.

So is Izzy our buddy or Mao? I'd pick Mao. that way we can use Izzy as a buffer in case Mao has a temper tantrum. We also need to start roading to his capital so that we can give him some resources & lux.

Murica needs to go soon. maybe wait til it gets to size two then start a brief war with Izzy to get that town out of our hair.....

We need to get to that other continent soon. Any guesses on where (my guess is the big black area)? Off of Manpo is the furthest West and probably best bet on the suicide run. there are 3 scientific civ over there and that just sucks. As soon as we get over there, we need to start stirring up trouble IMO.

lmao Tubby, "currently on Hiatus"

Izzy is cuter, but Mao would be easier to help, and he looks like a little child we could assist. Waiting for size 2 (and possibly a harbor (?)) is wise. West is the best bet I could see as well.

I don't like Izzy because, as mentioned, she's putting cultural pressure on us. She has cheaper Kulcha than us so that will always be the case. So, I'm afraid, cute she may be, but she has to go, at least to some extent.

As for Ragnar, well, he's ugly and has to be gotten rid of.

eldar04 150bc - 50ad
soul warrior diaries

preturn - get a taxman in Cheju to prevent riots.

IBT rejkavik is taken back

1- Republic is in. go for currency at 70% and -1gpt. due in 9.
delay revolt till we finish the raganar affair.
Seoul horse > horse, Wonsan horse > settler (on growth)
we almost retake rejkavik, but lose a warrior and redline a horse. still ha horse left there.
change Kaesong to a cat as it wont produce that worker for another 5 turns.

sell Isabelle the republic for Monarchy, Currency and 402g (all her gold)
we are at a new age and draw Engineering.
set sci at 80. -6gpt feudalism due in 19.

IBT rags move. no contact.

2- Nampo gran > wealth for 1 turn.
Aarhus a horse kills a spear.
kill an archer-settler pair.

3- Pingpong sword > sword,
Oslo stops resisting, get 2 more taxmen till it drops to pop 1. set to worker. Pusan horse > sword, Pyongsong settler > harbour,
Rejkavik is taken. we lose a horse and redline another.
Aarhus is taken. no losses this time, but redline a horse.
we are now at -0gpt.

4- Seoul horse > horse, MM for happiness. move troops south.
kill a couple of archers. no losses.

5- Wonsan settler > sword, Cheju settler > sword, remember Nampo and start treb :blush:,
switch Stavanger to a worker, as its now connected and happier.
kill an archer out of Odense.

IBT - oslo is retaken. lose 2 horses i think. and the people love me? get an auditorium built where we can watch some quality plays.

6- oslo switches hands once more. we lose a horse.build Sariwon > galley,
get an E horse out of copenhagen.
and another horse goes red on Odense's walls.

7- Seoul horse > sword, PIngpong sword > settler, Stavanger worker > treb, Ulsan horse > worker,

8- build Suwon > worker, build Haeju > worker,

9- Pusan sword > sword, moving.

10- Seoul sword > sword, Wonsan and Cheju do the same. Ulsan worker > horse,
Odense is starting to REALLY annoy me. we lose a horse with 2 bleeders retreating. its still there.
pillage raggie's horses.

forgot to quell resistance in Aarhus. please send someone over there.
havent revolted either, thought to finnish things up first, and my "great" RNG luck also helped me decide.
finish the current unit cycle and revolt?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_sw_51.jpg

we have about 5 swords coming in 2-3 turns.
feud is in 7, so maybe revolt when its in? see about trade options? not that i think the AI will have anything, but still...

I'll be right there

Pre-Turns: Embassy with lil' brother, and his capital will finish SoZ in 5 turns. Move troops around to the front. Upgrade 2 vet warriors to swordsmen.

T1: Pingpong Sword->FP, Nanpo Treb->Aqueduct, Taejon rax->Aqueduct. I see no reason to puruse the war as it is with the vikings.
Mobilizing troops around the spanish front.

IT: Galley lost to the east, some sea seen but nothing relevant.

T2: Declare, move in and capture 3 spanish workers.

T3: I seem to have better RNG luck than our horse abducting friend.

T4: Get an army, use it and fill it with 3 veteran horses.

IT: Little brother finishes SoZ in Beijing.

T5: Madrid forces our army to back off after the second attack. 2 spearmen took 10hp off it.
The spanish are down to 5 cities, and I consider we now have enough forces to conquer them, with a bit of consolidation and patience, so I throw republic in.

IT: Spanish make the brilliant move of building Sun Tzu instead of building anything to fight us back.

T6: moves

T7: 2nd MGL, Wow. This one I will use for an army but wait for knights to fill it.

IT: Spain changes Sun Tzu's buildplace

T8: Another army, this one I fill with swords.

T9: Madrid and salamanca fall.


T10: Rush harbor in Pyongsong.

Our troops need some healing before going back in for Barcelona. Reinforcements are heading west for Murcia, things went rather bad there and we lost quite a few warriors.
I left a few towns undefended but workers and wounded troops will bait them out until the swordsmen army comes in.

Umm... let me get this straight. 3 MGLs?! Or just two and change the decision on the second and filled with Swords instead?

Okay, I had an idea. All the other Sci civs (Babylon, Ottos, Germany) plus the Com Indians who will be able to research quite nicely, are on the other continent.

How about as little interference "over there" as possible, and see who wins the Space Race?

3 bloody armies? 3? and all i got for Xmas was a lousy bleedin' horseman?
:goodjob: Bjorn the fearsome :D

3 bloody armies? 3? and all i got for Xmas was a lousy bleedin' horseman?
:goodjob: Bjorn the fearsome :D

[edit] double posted? now i know im seeing double. head back to the bar and order another Jack.

Eldar, you got this straight. 3 MGL's. I'm careful with elite attacks and it ends up paying, sometimes ;)

Right now we have no idea what's up on the other continent, but we have a totally upper hand over this. With the spanish lands consolidated we could win by 20k on pretty much any city we would found in 1000AD. Well maybe not that much, but we're good to go.

I guess it could be fun to let them research and then go SS snipe in the modern ages, with nukes and boats and planes and copters and marines.

Also, we should let Mao some room to breathe; he'll need it with us as neighbors and no one to war with (assuming AI's are basically unable to war overseas).

Let's keep a row of Spanish cities between him and us, with a single-city physical border (wouldn't want a silly war between China and Spain upsetting our trade routes!)

I believe I'm up now. Got it.

So what's the decision? Are we helping Mao, or is it going to be somebody on the other continent? Personally I think picking China would be more interesting, but I could go either way.

Mao is a good choice. Since we're both in the Asian clan, I think that is well suited. If this is the case, then we need to gift Mao up to where we are. Also all extra luxes and resources need to be given to him too. We are going to have to have a pretty nice line of defense since Mao is a bit aggressive.

I'd say just knock Izzy & redbeard off of the continent and then go for a Chinese SpaceShip from there. WE don't know where Aluminum is yet but hopefully there will be at least one or two sources on our continent.

Mao is fine with me - I think it's more interesting to have it be somebody on our continent. Though we might not want to be the only other civ on the continent with him.

If this is the case, then we need to gift Mao up to where we are. Also all extra luxes and resources need to be given to him too.
So if we are helping Mao, how exactly are we going to define "helping"? Are we just going to do whatever seems reasonable to help him out, or is there something more specific (like the list of rules they had in the RBCiv game where they tried this)?

When I first open the save, a couple of things jump out at me:

Item #1: The Spanish war. I check out the diplomatic options, and discover that Izzy is actually willing to give up Murcia for peace. After thinking it over, I decide to take it, since Murcia is the city we really want. We have enough force to take Barcelona, once our troops heal up a bit, but then the capital would jump to Murcia, and it's be a pain to send enough forces over there to be sure of taking it. So let's settle for Murcia now and deal with Barcelona in 20 turns.

The one drawback to this is that our newly captured cities near Barcelona are a bit of a flip risk, but I still think getting Murcia for free is worth it. So peace is signed for Murcia, 8 gold, and 7 gpt.

Item #2: We're scientific, we're in the middle ages, and we don't have Literature yet? You know, I laugh at the AI when they do this. Since it looks like the consensus is leaning toward buddying up to Mao, I trade him 10 gpt for Literature. We could get it cheaper by throwing in our spare incense, but it's by Seville, which could theoretically flip, and we have money to spare. So all the temple we were building for culture changed to libraries.

Our core cities could probably also use a round of libraries, but since we're running minimum science right now, and having some minor happiness issues, that can wait until after markets.

Then on the interturn, Izzy boots our troops and warns me that our aggressive ways have almost led to a war between our two peoples. :rotfl:


Anyway, after that, it was pretty much a peaceful set of builder turns. I rushed a lot of libraries in border towns to expand our territory and reduce flip risks.

Furs came online in 260 AD, allowing me to reduce lux to 10%.

In 310, Ragnar was kind enough to establish an embassy, saving us the money of doing it ourselves.

In 320, the Chinese founded Macao on the northern tip of the island Siberia is on. A more worthless city spot I can hardly imagine.

In 330, we received word that the Ottomans have built the Great Library.

I sent out one suicide galley (all that got built - most of our coastal cities have really bad production), but of course it promptly sank.

Note: I have a lot of our useless cities building markets right now, mostly because I wasn't really sure what to do with them. But I figured we have plenty of time to figure that out. So next player feel free to change those to whatever seems appropriate.

I didn't really do much to help Mao. We probably ought to decide once and for all who it's going to be.

The world in 350 AD:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04-350AD.jpg

And a roster check:

eldar <- Up!
Soul Warrior <- on Deck
Beorn
MM <- just played

In 320, the Chinese founded Macao on the northern tip of the island Siberia is on. A more worthless city spot I can hardly imagine.
lets talk this over in about a thousand years. just around the time coal and oil come online, shall we? i have a feeling we havent heard the last of Siberia.

about the peace with spain. :thumbsup:
about the Lit thing. :blush: AND :thumbsup:

i agree we need now a few builder sets. mainly libs, markets and uni's. if we manage to land a wonder, lovely, but i guess we dont really need any.
OK, maybe Smiths later and Cops - Newtons would be nice. :mischief:

So Izzy has 2CC ahead of her and Ragnar has been pushed to the coast. Should we "sell" Eng to MAo since he's our buddy? Also, we're doing min research. Should we bump it up to stay ahead of everyone.

Scandanavia has 5 coastal cities and one in the middle of Chinatown. He's only 2 techs away from those blonde devils. Do we want to ha,per him significantly before that or just wait to see what happens??

Also, we're doing min research. Should we bump it up to stay ahead of everyone.
I left it as min research because I had other uses for the cash (and besides, we didn't have any libraries). My thinking was that we can use the time until Invention comes in to build libraries and other infra, then crank up research. But that may be longer than we want to wait. Not really sure.

Scandanavia has 5 coastal cities and one in the middle of Chinatown. He's only 2 techs away from those blonde devils. Do we want to ha,per him significantly before that or just wait to see what happens??
I believe our peace treaty with Ragnar has a couple of turns left to go. After that, I think we should seriously consider taking some more of his cities. Though he is serving as a buffer between us and our potentially aggressive buddy.

I believe we need Mao to get Coper and such, so that he can do a bit without us. Soon we will have the choice of weapons in the victory war, and we can hand it over to him by beelinging/gifting techs he needs for useful wonders.

About Lodbrok, we could play with him, declare a MA with Mao against him and let Mao take the cities he wants. using just pikes/trbs to take off HP from defenders while Mao moves up, and our soon-to-be knight army to clear up whatever is in the way.

I'd like to get rid of Barcelona. If it weren't for the fact there's probably oil up there in Siberia, I'd gift it it Spain, then kill her continental cities off!

lurker's comment:
In 310, Ragnar was kind enough to establish an embassy, saving us the money of doing it ourselves.


My apologies for the interruption but I have a question on the above statement. If the AI builds an embassy in your capitol than you gain the benefits of an embassy without having to build one in their capitol?

Again, my apologies for the interruption.

If the AI builds an embassy in your capitol than you gain the benefits of an embassy without having to build one in their capitol?
Yes, that's correct. You don't get to investigate their capitol, though.

eldar? :bump: you picking this up? 5 days....

I think eldar was away for the weekend. Hopefully he should be back soon.

I was away for the weekend. I am back now.

@ everyone. its been 2 weeks since my last confession.
eldar... what up? we keeping going or not?
just a friendly :bump: that all :D

I read his reply this morning, and for some reason I thought he was talking about the week-end just past :lol: I wouldn't feel guilty about taking a 10, if I were you Soul, and neither will I to take my 10 after yours ;)

Tomorrow, tomorrow... always tomorrow. I've had a loose couple of weeks.

ok bef. or should it be beef, seeing your new avatar? ;)
expect to play tomorow.

Oh well now THAT's a faster reply than I would have thought. I thought you were just away. Guess that answers the dilemma.

lol@beef, I'll keep that one in mind :D

I think my devotion to Civ is slipping - too many other distractions, like Gordon Ramsay and Big Brother!

I just went through one of those, I can't blame anyone for that. We'll just have to calm our youngling rage for games a bit, and wait up 'til you post some turns ;) Besides, we have much to do here in the academy *starts lacing his shoelaces all 4 together*.

I just went through one of those, I can't blame anyone for that. We'll just have to calm our youngling rage for games a bit, and wait up 'til you post some turns ;) Besides, we have much to do here in the academy *starts lacing his shoelaces all 4 together*.
and everyone keeps telling me im still behaing like a 10 year old.
so there :p

eladr04 sw 350ad-450ad

preturn thoughts - need infra. bad. get some.
preturn action is basically not needed. most builds are infra related and were at peace.
i decide to keep the minimal science spending to buildup cash for a rainy day.

1- Pusan market > lib,
Uskudar (an Ottoman city gets loads of free rax all over thier landmass)

2- now germany has to prove they are better than the turks and go build LEOS. i think we can expect some groovy action over there soon.
i decide we are helping mao here (fuzzy memory) and sell him inscense for 60g + 4gpt.
i also hurry a galley (40g). i REALLY want to meet the others.
also rush an aqua for 100g.
we can use that money in the grave, or enjoy it now.

3- seoul lib > heroic epic (we can change it, but it will be ready in 16), Taejon aqua > lib, Sariwon galley > lib,
china gets MONO. will mao change it for ENG? not likely and with noone to resell it to. no go yet.

4- Wonsan market > lib, Namp'o aqua > lib,
hurry 3 harbours in the west for 100g.

5- Pusan lib > court, Inch'on-Kaesong-Choju all harbour > galley,

6- start another suicide run due west.

7- FORBIDDEN PALACE is in PING PONG. > lib,
still afloat and spot not one, but TWO borders :dance: :pray:

8- Sariwon about to riot so gets a taxman. now 0 growth. bad!
and ofcourse we sink with no contacts :cry: rush more galleys for 200g.

9- Wonsan lib > MDI (we dont want to be completely helpless here, right?), Ulsan aqua > pike, Kaesong galley > lib, Choju galley > galley,

10- Namp'o lib > market, Taejon lib > MDI, Suwon harbour > lib,
the people give us a door to the cave.

there are 2 galleys in the west corner. run them straight west for 3 turns.
check and MM for happiness. lots of clowns and taxmen. up lux to 20?
thats all, folks.

Thanx SW. I think the other continent are a little way ahead of us... some catchup is really in order! And a boot up my rear, or possibly something gunpowder-powered might work better!

the pray smiley is : worship : btw. I might get around to it tomorrow, if Eldar doesn't change his mind about the flaming booming boot up his rear end. Please do, dude, I wouldn't want you to end like my last car.

Got. Tonight, after pred02, hopefully before my wife finished dinner? Certainly between dinner and Big Brother.

Got a little mixed up in the order of things, but here we are.

I got bored. Whacked Ragnar around a bit. We now own this huge great bronze bloke. Met some new friends, but they're not that nice - they know more than us, the smartypants.

Ragnar's final resting place will be a city smack in the middle of China. Won't last.

Got Invention, sold it to Mao to get Mono. Signed RoP with him as well. Got Gunpowder, too, and we have plenty of boom-boom powder.

So we've met Osman (no trading, too expensive) who knows Theology and Chivalry and stuff. He doesn't know Chemistry - but we will soon enough!

We've met Gandhi, too, who's backward, but I gave him a free government (Republic).

The rest will come in time.

Here's a picture, with diagrams and stuff:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/eldar04_550AD.jpg

Neil. :cool:

I have to say I'm not 100% positive about how to deal with Stockholm, but I'll work that through tonight.

I guess we now need to ensure Mao's domination: sign MA with him against spain and Viks, so that he conquers in, and leave him some breathing room. Perhaps gift a city or 2. Will see to it tonight.

No MA with Mao. We don't want to drag our buddy into our fight do we?

EDIT:: I see that Osman owns the GL in Bursa. I think that we need to stop research after Astronomy and go take Bursa. Let's have a scientific elevator....woo hoo then gift it to MAo

We can use our RoP to take out the last Viking city, and gift it to Mao, if needs be. War with Spain to knock out Barcelona (she has a town in the far south, too) is probably worth it, once the peace deal is up.

Clearly trade Chem for whatever Osman will give us - Theo's better than Chiv, though, not like we'll need it :D

Then Metal after Chem, but don't bother with Mil Trad. Again, why are we going to need it?

yes. an almost really wise man (so he claimed) once told me that paper has magical properties.
ever since that days ive torn many pages in search of this elusive magic. where is it?
maybe the sultan has an answer?

Scientific Elevator? We don't need it... yeah, but maybe Mao could handle it! We just have to keep him from getting Education.

However invading over there - and there are already muskets - isn't going to be pretty.

don't bother with Mil Trad. Again, why are we going to need it?
True. There's no way we could end up in a war with, say, Mao, and have a need for (a) fast-moving troops to bolster the defense or (b) good attack troops to destroy invaders, thus bringing our enemy to the peace table. And it's not even remotely conceivable that we could end up in a war with anybody on the other continent. I mean, what could they possibly have that we might want?

And, sure, the enhanced military strength (due to having 6/3 units instead of 4/2's, or even the 2/1 horsemen we have now) might deter other civs from declaring war on us, but it's not like we have any potentially aggressive neighbors....

So, yeah, I agree. Military Tradition - what a useless tech.

:p

Seriously, I don't want to count on the fact that we can keep the peace with Mao. The AI can do some pretty silly things, especially when we're the only neighbors left, so we should be prepared. Not that I would make MT a really high priority, but we should try to get it at some point.

Well, I think we will be better off gifting whatever we want to Mao rather than GLib-elevating him. We won't benefit much from the GLib anyways - not enough to consider sending a 1-city strike force in with the current disadvantageous unit strenghts, and even less to send a full army.

Nvm my Got it, I'll maybe play it friday or over the week-end, so MailMan would probably want to have his set before mine.

Will play right now

Hindisght: looks pretty good, props on the beautiful advance on stockholm, 1 and 2 move units all together up there, nice job.

IT:

T1: Pingpong on Harbor, Seville Aqueduct, Nam'po worker, Siberia longbow (will think about it more carefully), Suwon aqua. 1.6.3 doesn't slow the pace so I do it.
Given our military condition right now, I think some troops are expendable, so I send an archer up front. He dies and inflicts 0 damage for the sake of 2gpt. Send horseman afterwards which promotes, and the RNG gods grant me a little wonder, whom I call "PH34R B YET ?!" as per my younger star/warctraft taunting warmongering days. 4th MGL for B. Now don't you PH34R !

We might reconsider courthouse/mining far off towns, I suggest the far east be totally irrigated for food and science output benefits. For now I maintain the roading action.

T2: Seoul Horse->Harbor, Santiago, Ulsan and Wonsan horses, Nam'po barracks,

Send an elite horse first to attack Odense with good hopes it would take out a reg spear but it :spear: :sad:

IT: Sign incense for 23+7gpt to Mao, which will enhance productivity and maximize his ability.

T3: I'm torn apart now. To peace or not to peace. It would benefit Mao to have that town out there, and we would stop having viking clowns acting like they can riot on us, so I MA Mao against Ragnar with us. My bet is he lasts 2 IT's. Ragnar can basically not hurt Mao, so I believe it is not against the variant. Builds to some infra (market for :D and libs for :cool:) and a horse.

Sci starve the rioteers. 3.4.3 and still the same pace.

IT: Bet flawed: no more vikings on the map already. AC's did their job on the chinese front.

T4: Trondheim and Siberia changed to lib for cultural borders. Back to 2.5.3 however, no more sci starvers.

I send prioritary mail to all elite troops to amass at Salamanca for a deathblow to the spanishs.

IT:

T5: Chemistry is in, working on Metallurgy. I would wait until we sell chemistry, for the hope of anyone coming up shortly so that we could twofer it. Osman-the-Bastard has Chemistry too. We have some mighty catching up to do.

T6: Set my priorities to Lib-Aqua-Market-Rax-Horse for the moment, and that sums up the builds. Dispatch several vet horses to do zone defense.

T7: Pusan reaches full pop so I mine a few of its tiles and/or share them for more food to others.

T8: Little brother's been doing some figurin' and he came up with Chivalry. We gift-trade him chemistry for it.

IT: Ottoman finish Sistine's.

T10: Declare on Izzy and move troops in. Ally Mao with us against her so she is wiped and no longer a nuisance. I give her 2 IT at Valencia.

All in all, it went pretty darn well. The map here is of those cities to the east that are totally corrupt. To the west is not worth showing, it is my opinion irrigating it all is a no-brainer.

But should we irrigate those cities and make them specialist havens? Should we gift a few southern towns to Mao sometime? My take on this is gift the SE most 2 or 3, irrigate everything and hire scientists.

http://www.mat.ulaval.ca/~fbolduc/B/corrupt.jpg

I left the army unmoved, it could take a blow but not at 0 risk. Maybe 5-10% risk I'd guess.

Okay - those towns, once we've built our FP (I don't think we've built it yet...?!) will be nice and productive, given we're commercial. Courts will make a diference.

Don't we have a FP? if we don't, they'll top around 5-6 shields, maybe 10 at most with courts, and that is in a loooooooong time. I'll wait to see if we have a FP or not to really push my point though.

as we are on a shorter list than i thought, ill take the blame for the delay.
i suggest we take it for a few more sets on a first come, first serve, basis.
will play in the morning.

eldar
Soul Warrior <- GOT IT
Beorn
MM

Since you posted your got it, I won't squeeze 5 or 10 turns here, just in case.

namliaM, are you anywhere around ?

Sorry, I think it was me that was holding things up this time. I keep forgetting that we only have four people in this game; I thought there had to be at least one more before I was up again.

I'm up in another game, so I probably can't play until tomorrow night. If SW (or somebody) wants to jump in before then and take a round in the interests of getting this moving again, feel free.

Woops, wrong name :blush:

SW has already taken the initiative, then it's all yours, I can't play until friday night at least.

eladr04 every loser wins
SW 650ad-750ad

preturn, i knock another spear off of Barcelona's defences.

1- i want to fish there, but lose 2 MDI's (vet+E) to no leaders :(
on the bright side we now have MoM's.
the spaniards went south for the holiday season.
started moving hands east for the great waterworks.

2- we got Metal (whatch-out below :evil: ) go for cavs at 50% (in 8, not 6, but we are making money)
i disband some archers we have lying around.
start some hwtacha's.
start Pentagon in PingPong

3- Seoul finishes a knight, starts KT as prebuild for the Academy.
move loads of troops towards Mao's garden. just so he wont get any funny ideas.
we also meet Babylon. were up chivalry and Eng.

4- some spaniard boats that come to visit. Bella also wants peace. too bad.
i wish Mao would get the hint already.

5- Germany's Leipzig get the KT, ruining my prebuild. the bastards. so i switch to a colosseum :D

and now it crashes on me.
curses!!!

reload the autosave

lost the logs...
but nothing really important happens.

9- we get Cavs, switch Seoul back to MilAcademy.
start the study of theology.

10- nothing much.

notes:

1-shadowing a spanish galley coming in on seoul.

2-we have a worker and a settler in the area of barcelona's swamps, clearing for a new town. it can be used in the other continent.
we have a warrior, 4 swordsmen, 17 horse, 1 pike, 6 knights, 2 galleys, 4 armies (2 empty in seoul?), 8 whatchout's and 5 MDI's.
way too many obsolete units. and 12 above our max.
disband the warrior, swords and most horse (they are 150g an upgrade. not an option), the MDI's can stay for now.
it will save us around 80gpt (20 units disbanded) not to be sneered at.
started some cav builds, and there are a few more whatchamacallits abuilding.

2a- move the knights into wider area defences. we dont need all those horse MP's.

3-theology in 3 @ 50%.

4-we have the Pentagon and MilAcad building (Seoul and PingPong) both in 18. i would keep the pentagon, but the MilAcad can be switched to something else.

5-i think our RoP with mao expired. but not sure.
didnt we have an alliance with Mao to get rid of bella? they now have a RoP.


going to have a :beer: on the beach now.
i have to save my feeble strength for the other 2 SG's i have to finish tonight :D

How are contacts going? Do we know everyone? Could we buy owt with Metals?

We had an alliance with Mao to wipe Scarface Redbeard, and he did a good job; can't figure out why he broke our alliance against Bella. He had it wide open for Valencia deep in the south, he just had to go there and knock at the door.

Disagree on Pentagon vs Academy: armies of 3 makes sense, but 4 is many imo. Good thing we're up there though, we'll be able to just fill 3 cavs in 2 armies and disband whatever other off unit we can think of. Then we could beeline for infantry and make a D-Day doomdrop of 5000 H'watcha+infantry on whoever tries to beat Mao@Spaceship.

What was the VC we wanted Mao to win by, again? He broke an alliance, so maybe his rep is broken and we shouldn't go there. If we want him to win in space, we'll have some serious capital bashing to do; I guess we could use Commy and mass troops in foresight - or just load boats with units and bash stuff while the chinese learn how to count from 10 down. That's what rocket scientists really do, is it not?

just got back.
2 :beer:s, sun, babes in bikinis...
marvelous :D

as far as i can remember now, we have 5 contacts.
if we're on a standard world, we have 7 AI, so 2 more to go.
we have a galley down in babylon touring.

eldar, what size are we on?
it looks like standard...

You can check in F10 (space tab) for all the civs, and it will show all of the AI's sharing the map with you. Odd question though: does it ever happen (about 1 in 28 chance if it would, so someone might have experienced it) that a "random" AI falls onto 'None' ? If it does, does it have less chances of happening?

I know who we're missing - Germany and the Babs. I left a Galley wandering round by India, so it should've gotten a few more squares round by now.

It's a Standard map, 7 opponents (listed here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2658292&postcount=21)).

MilAcad is better than Pentagon for the army attack/defense power boost. Not that the Pentagon isn't good, but we need transports to, well, transport our armies then (or just very wide sleevies).

The only contact we are missing is Germany. The only reason we have 5 now is because all of the red-bearded dogs are dead.

Not that the Pentagon isn't good, but we need transports to, well, transport our armies then (or just very wide sleevies).
True. But our main concern, at least for now, is probably keeping Mao from attacking us. We may eventually have to go take a capital or two to assist in the space race, but by then we'll obviously have transports.

And just because we have the Pentagon, we don't necessarily need to fill all our armies to capacity. We can keep a transportable one (don't we have an empty army or two lying around?), just in case we need it.

Odd question though: does it ever happen (about 1 in 28 chance if it would, so someone might have experienced it) that a "random" AI falls onto 'None' ?
Not as far as I know. I've certainly never seen it.

Anyway, now that I actually know I'm up :), I'll try to get this played soon (this evening if all goes well, tomorrow if it doesn't).

Sorry, I think I'm going to have to ask for a skip this round. I've been sick the last couple of days, and I just don't quite have the level of concentration needed for Civ at the moment. And this game has been held up enough already lately, so go ahead and skip me this round.

Alright, got this :salute:

Question: do we want to trigger our GA with that one galley on our coast? Whatever it transports, it must be headed to our undefended core cities (likely the capital) so we could wait for it there with 5 H'watchas, and take shots at the Galley if it fails; though the question really is not how, but yes or no should we.

i think we can use our GA now, but wait for a few more votes.
how close are we to artillery?

I think it's Physics, Mag, ToG, then the classic Steam Elec RP beeline. With our GA, I'd say this is within 25 turns reach all in all; we'll have some crazy output in a late medieval, university filled GA. I'll have to check the save to make sure though.

After thinking about it a bit, I think we will need our GA most when we reach the time of SS disturbances. So far so good, we have a nice territory, nothing pressing on us. I will thus avoid triggering it as much as possible. Should have the turns in tonight.

Wrong me :nono: we are 3 turns from theology. Downside of the tree we are all the way to MT. This means
1- We do not want our GA right now
2- We can militarily take advantage of the fact we are ahead. I'll try and head for banking before we start doing some gold hoarding and massive upgrades, but I plan on capping our unit support in cavalries, while we have spare in our production queues.

Playing now, BBS with the turns.

Pre-Turns: We are 12 armed men overboard. We will need both to grow our cities up and to use what dudes we have at the moment. Review the builds in consequence and prioritise whatever can be built for growth rather over units. When we get banks we can relax research a bit and do serious upgrades to enter IA with a valid force up.

T1: Madrid court-market
Toledo court-aqua
RoP China, get Theology early + 9g for wines+horses. Then gift-trade them metallurgy for Education. Osman has Astronomy, though I'll buy it when somebody else knows. For now I research at +100 ish gpt.

T3: Start serious university productions.
Renew incense deal to China for 23g+7gpt.

Find the german border. Osman has banking, now that, we must get. Again, will wait for another dude to buy.

T4: Bismark knows MT, Banking, Astro and Music Theory. So does now Osman. Buy Banking for 313+55gpt, will keep researching at med rate while we are not done building banks.

T5: Looking forward to Astronomy and Coper's, for which I will use the "pre-build" of Seoul. Mil Academy is a must, but I guess we can do without a pentagon for a while.


T6: Aqueduct-market in Suwon, Core builds Univs and Banks. Our troops reach Valencia at last (a lot of chinese troops have blocked our way, I guess it's RNG badluck). No sweat there, spears can't hold too long vs armies.
Play up-slider-down-slider

T7: The slider trick worked and we get Astro a turn early. Don't ask me how it works, it just does.


T8: Capture Valencia and gift Mao. Astronomy is in and we switch build in Seoul to it.

Here's something interesting, to say the least: what do those units do defending the swamp ?!

http://www.mat.ulaval.ca/~fbolduc/B/marais.jpg

T10: The growth thing worked: we are now at 64/69, paying no unit cost. I must admit having disbanded a pike and 2 vet MDI to rush aquas and make room for cavs. I upgraded several cavalries yet. Research is on a relaxed rate, which you might want to slow down further when we are done banking the core and can hoard for the cavs.
Nothing changed at all.

Osman now has physics. If you guys want to run for Smith's and/or Newton's, now is the time to start serious pre-builds.

Roster:
eldar <- UP
Soul Warrior <- UP
Beorn <- Just played
MM <- UP

:hammer::banana::dance::ar15:[pissed]
:cringe:

ok. ok. just stop hammering my brains...
gots it.
smiths and newtons are being brewed as we speak

I just love those smiley pairs, I'd put them everywhere, like instead of periods at the end of sentences.

Are you working on it? Just wondering, cuz I think we should just give it a shot on our spare times when we (whoever) gets some. I just felt bad taking 2 10's in a row last time I could - I couldn't now, but I feel it appropriate to bring the question up.

i guess this is abandoned, but maybe not....
i will try to get this tomorroe.
or i wont....