Saves are now available for COTM 11: Korea

Civilization: Korea.
Opponents: 7 preselected
World Size: Standard, 4 billions
Characteristics: Nominally Pangaea, 60% ocean.
Climate: Warm, Arid
Barbarians: Sedentary
Difficulty: Regent

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/cotm11large.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/cotm11mini.jpg


Conquest Class Starting Bonuses:
Conquest class players will begin the game with following unit and game feature bonuses:
- Total Starting Cash in Treasury: unchanged at 10 units of gold
- Extra Units: A Curragh and a bonus Scout.

Predator Class Equalizing Obstacles:
The game features for Predator Class Games have been raised to provide the following obstacles:
- Player Unit Support: Free unit support reduced by one per city or metropolis whenever it's normally non-zero. Town unit support is unchanged.
- AI Unit Support: AI unit support increased to Monarch level.
- AI Extra Settlers: Selected AI civilizations start with an extra settler.


Please note that this game will close on 1st May, 2005.

Once you have downloaded the start file, please do not post anything about the game until the first spoiler thread has opened (on or about the 5th of April).

If you have any problems or would like any clarification, please contact me or another staff member via PM or e-mail

You can download the starting save files from this page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/index.php?month=30011)

Yay it's out now I can play the first twenty turns and give it up?

@ Tomoyo/Bede - Who are you? Are you having an identity crisis?

@ Tomoyo/Bede - Who are you? Are you having an identity crisis?

Nope, He, Bede and Co had issues with calendar...
It's April 1st already in world of theirs :crazyeye:

O :wow: I did not expect it until tomorrow.

Since, Conquest class gets a scout, I guess we are not on an island or, at least, not on a very small one.

The idea to reduce unit support for human in predator class is something new, but I guess it won't effect us earlier in the game, since towns are unchanged. I never used feudalism as a goverment type. Could it be an optimal goverment type for predator in this game? This would give a strategy alternative to republic slingshot: use philosophy to accelerate transition to MA and do not research republic or monarchy, then get feudalism.
I am not sure that I will use it, but I will keep it in mind.

Also selected (not all!!!) civilizations start with an extra settler. I guess this means that the balance between AI in predator will be different from balance in open, correct?

Nope, He, Bede and Co had issues with calendar...
It's April 1st already in world of theirs :crazyeye:Actually, it's past noon GMT now, so we were supposed to change.

@ actually, I'm seeing the name: "Tomoyo" to the left of Bede's post above his monk instead of "Bede". Am I the only one seeing this?

[edit] never mind, I just got it. :lol: It's 8pm on the 31st here.

Wow, I come home for lunch and see that's its released. Now how am I supposed to concentrate at work for the rest of the day!? :crazyeye:

Ehh, the 1st spoiler thread should be posted on the 5th of April, not May. That's my bday, and I don't want to wait that long ;)

Okay, so that's my weekend sorted: finish up GOTM41, start this one....

WARNING FOR PREDATOR PLAYERS

My bad: the predator save file on the game page is the incorrect version, in that reduced unit support is extended to towns as well as cities and metropolis.

While theoretically you *could* play it out of masochism, that is not really the intended predator game: can you please hold on playing it until we link the correct file on the game page? It will only take a short time.

Sorry for the inconvenience :blush:

END OF WARNING FOR PREDATOR PLAYERS

:D Thanks to Alan, the right save is now in the right place.
Hope you enjoy the game, and once again apologies for the error.

My bad: the predator save file on the game page is the incorrect version
I'm not going to let Karasu take the credit for this one. He gave me the modified file. I screwed up and put the wrong one up. I'm the April Fool :blush:

Anyway, it's updated now, so all you C3C Predators can go get your fix.

BTW - anyone who downloaded and started the game with the wrong predator file, please follow Karasu's suggestion and e-mail it to me at gotm@civfanatics.net.

Whew!

I just revolted to Republic and wondered if I had misread the announcement :eek:

Save file on the way! Looks like a fun game. :goodjob:

WARNING FOR PREDATOR PLAYERS


O, good. I did download this save yesterday and I did plan to start it yesterday, but circumstances did not let me.
Now I need to remember to save a correct version.

Conquest also starts with only 10gp. Not that a big problem, but still...

im starting open class, never played as korea and am looking forward to it

Nice predator set-up! :goodjob:

It'll be interesting to see how many people decide to play predator with this additional handicap. On the other hand: It is a regent game, so it's not like predator will be a huge challenge... :)

Conquest also starts with only 10gp. Not that a big problem, but still...

This is strange. I am sure that I had set it up as I posted above, but I might quite well have messed that one up too... :ack:

I won't be able to do anything before tomorrow, though. I hope the Conquest players won't be too upset -but then, why play Conquest on a Regent game at all? :p

EDIT: I might have 5 minutes after all -let me go and give a look...

EDIT2: You are right, of course, which *is* strange since the biq is ok. I'll check with the boss and report here -tomorrow, though -now I have to go.

It is a regent game, so it's not like predator will be a huge challenge... :)

Depending on the victory condition you choose, I have a strong feeling the extra AI settler could even be to human advantage.

Yes. But removing the free support from towns and cities is huge.

Depending on the victory condition you choose, I have a strong feeling the extra AI settler could even be to human advantage.

Yes, extra settler for AI sign they will be researching faster and may be will start its Wonders earlier. It's good for Diplo, Space and may be 100K but not good for 20K. :(

Depending on the victory condition you choose, I have a strong feeling the extra AI settler could even be to human advantage.

Absolutly. Predator is a very interesting class, since it usualy has a little bonus for which we had to do an extra job. Deacreasing human unit support is obviously a handicap, but increased AI unit support and extra units for AI have both elements of a penalty and a bonus. There was huge discussion on this topic in this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=101026)

Ehm... this time the mess is all mine :blush:

The Conquest starting gold is indeed 10 gold, and now I know why -I should remember to connect the brain when I do things...

At this point, I would not propose a fix (nor dare I ask Ainwood to edit saves again... :ack: ). I have edited the initial post to reflect the actual situation.

Hopefully it will not be a big deal for our forgiving Conquest players :D

Now I wonder what can I have done to the Open game... :eek:

Now I wonder what can I have done to the Open game... :eek:

I was wondering why those Barb huts were popping Tanks....

:lol: Ops. There you go... Well, fortunately I set the barbs to 'sedentary'...
... :hmm: ...
...or was it "raging (with Tanks)". I can't remember :ack:

Good points above.

My feeling was that, at Regent level especially, most players in this community (and almost certainly those who would opt to play Predator ;) ), strenghtening the AIs would all but turn out to be an advantage for the player -both in terms of reaching faster the domination limit, and in terms of increased research speed (at least in the Ancient Age).

I think that reducing a little the free unit support could balance things somewhat, or at least make it a little more difficult to raise huge armies and simply erase all living forms on the map. Actually, it *might* suggest different strategies.

The more difficult part was 'how much' to go in that direction -as Abegweit says, it may have a huge effect.
In fact, as Ainwood wisely pointed out behind the scenes, too much of that would have rendered Republic -and to a certain extent Monarchy as well- almost useless.

Hopefully, the way it is set (1 less free unit per city/metropolis) should just add a manageable level of extra challenge.

Hopefully, the way it is set (1 less free unit per city/metropolis) should just add a manageable level of extra challenge.

So if you combine that with +1 free unit per town/city/metro (Monarch bonus) the AIs still come out ahead.

Exactly. The extra challenge is intended for the players -the AI will have a hard enough time without being handicapped ;)

I haven't opened the save yet, but I'm probably going to go for a Conquest victory in this game and I'll need a big military. I must admit that the unit support handicap gave me pause, and I considered playing open level instead. It seems that the Predator handicaps lately have been getting quite a bit more potent.

I'm probably going to go for a Conquest victory in this game and I'll need a big military. I must admit that the unit support handicap gave me pause, and I considered playing open level instead.

I had the same reaction. After due reflection, however, I have concluded that it's not as bad as it seems. What's more, contrary to intuition, the size of your military does not affect the cost.

Early in the game, when you have few or no cities, there is no difference. As others have noted, the extra AI settlers may even be beneficial. Late in the game, when your military is disbanded and your workers are supplemented by slaves, it is also negligible.

The critical moment is the conquest stage. Making the reasonable assumption that you would be paying unit support under the standard rules, the cost is exactly #cities gold/turn (towns are the same and metropolises don't exist). At this stage, you would typically hit about 30-50 cities with an economy in the range of a thousand gpt. This is not a large amount. Significant, but not large.

The biggest difference may actually the way that it hampers your ability to research the early ME techs to Chivalry/MilTrad while keeping together a reasonable worker force, not in your capacity to support a massive army.

In view of this, it's worth thinking about trying to keep the big AI cities up to size. OTOH, the cost of killing them off is higher under the standard rules than in this variant! Reducing an AI city to a town costs 2gpt in the Open class and only 1 in Predator.

I do agree that the open and predator classes have become less and less comparable of late. If this trend is to continue, it might be worth considering scoring changes.