Conquests 1.22
Level: Demi-god
Climate: ARID.
LandForm: CONTINENTS.
Map Size: STANDARD.
Ocean Coverage: 80%.
Temperature: TEMPERATE.
World Age: 4 BILLION YEARS.
Barbarians: Raging

Desired Victory Conditions: Diplomatic or Space. All conditions are enabled. SGL's are off.

We are King Hiram of Phoenicia, the master trader and merchant of the pre-classical Mediterranean. Our trading partners are:

France
India
Rome
Iroquois
England
Greece
Korea


This will be a game of seeking commercial advantage.

Accordingly there are a number of restrictions:

1) No standing army that exceeds the unit support levels (workers and settlers included) except during wartime. When the war is over excess troops must be demobilized in a convenient town until unit support drops to zero. Restriction is lifted in Democratic government.

2) Offensive warfare limited to the acquistion of tradeable resources.

3) Every city must carry its own weight! No city may spend more money on infrastructure than it generates in uncorrupted commerce or tax revenue.

4) Research limited to knowledge that brings commercial advantage, e.g. in the Ancient Age Bronze Working (for the Colussus) Code of Laws, Currency. If a technology does not confer commercial benefit it must be purchased.

5) All fields worked by citizens must generate commerce (river, road, resource...). If there are more citizens than improved fields the surplus become specialists.

6) Allowed governments are Despotism, Republic or Democracy

7) Trading Reputation is absolutely essential. If we lose our trading reputation it is mandatory retirement. There is an exception for "Acts of God" like volcanic eruptions, but not for trade routes broken by barbarian interdiction or acts of war.

8) No Great Wonders unless they are Industrious, Seafaring or Commercial.

Allowed Great Wonders (I think this is complete):
Colussus - Commercial
Mausoleum of Marsallos - Seafaring
Great Lighthouse - Seafaring
Pyramids - Industrious
Magellan's Voyage - Seafaring-Commercial
Smith's Trading Company - Commercial-Seafaring
Hoover Dam - Industrious
Manhattan Project - Industrious
United Nations - Commercial

No restriction on Small Wonders

One special scenario rule change: the Golden Age flag has been removed from the NuMerc. So the only way to trigger a Golden Age is with Great Wonders.

Concept based on RBCiv Epic 25 Numismatic Numidians, originally sponsored by Charis.

Ground Rules (Thanks again to LKendter)

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war.

Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship in the same square not using any movement, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

The negative cash flow exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.

Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another landmass.

Worker baiting - You can't spread around and sacrifice workers to an oncoming attack. This is often done to avoid losing real units or cities. This takes advantage of the AI failure to prioritize targets.

Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.

Worker blockades are prohibited. This prevents things such as fortifying workers along the coast to stop invasions, blocking troops from going through your territory with workers, etc. Workers activity doing something along the coast is fine. The workers must be actively doing something.

You may not declare war on a civ if you are currently shipping cash and / or goods to the civ.

Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.

Please add the following line to your Civ3 .ini file - noAIpatrol=0. Adding "noAIpatrol=0" to the .ini file turns the annoying patrolling back on for the AIs, but also restores movement to the barbarians.

Twenty four hours to post a got it, forty-eight hours to play and post new save and log, seventy two hours allowed from posting of save. Skips are automatic after first twenty-four hours elapsed.

Here is the starting point

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede05.jpg

And the global view

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede05MM.jpg

And the save is attached.


Roster:

Tomoyo
Cuivienen
Ginger Ale
Bezhukov
Bede

Ooh! Ooh! Sign me up! (Err... Phoenicians... they're not in Civ... :hmm: What are their traits and UU?)

I would guess that they are Com/Sea with the Numidian Merc as their UU (because the GA has been turned off for the NuMerc). Perhaps instead they are Com/Sea/Ind?

I'll sign up.

I would love to participate in another Bede game, especially with Tomoyo and Cuivienen. :)

Phoenicians were the original Carthaginians, so the civ is Carthage with the IND/SEA trait, but the GA flag off the NuMerc.

This is my kind of game - I'd like to join if you'll have me.

dooh, 4 minutes too late :)

8) No Great Wonders unless they are Industrious, Seafaring or Commercial.

Allowed Great Wonders (I think this is complete):
Colussus - Commercial
Mausoleum of Marsallos - Seafaring
Great Lighthouse - Seafaring
Pyramids - Industrious
Magellan's Voyage - Seafaring-Commercial
Smith's Trading Company - Commercial-Seafaring
Hoover Dam - Industrious
Manhattan Project - Industrious
United Nations - CommercialAre we allowed the Internet?

EDIT: Must not quote entire post.

Do we expect it to last that long? I would think we'd have won a Diplomatic victory before The Internet becomes a concern.

Good to see ya, Ginger Ale.
Howdy, Tomoyo.
Greetings, Cuivienen.
And a special welcome to Bezhukov. :salute:

Let's go make some gold. Who wants the first 20? And any other preferences on the rota?

Opened the save, here're (nice contraction, eh?) my comments:

Move worker SW, mine then road BG on river and work that tile (it has commerce, so we can work it). Settler on the spot, spew out a curragh then warrior (then curragh?). Then chop the fur forest, mine it, and road it. Use the luxury slider until we get the furs connected. Send the first curragh to the north, as we are in the south, possibly the southern corner of an island.

Comments? I know we could get barbarians from the hut but there's not much else we can build...

edit: Quadruple cross post! :crazyeye:
Sorry gram! :(

The Internet will be a boost if we take the spaceship route. I'd rather not take the first 20, I'll stick 3rd in the roster.

If we start with a curragh and that hut pops barbs, we're screwed.

@Cuivienen: Hmm... maybe I missed the "diplomatic victory" part of the opening post and only saw the space.

Are we allowed the Internet?


I knew there was one I forgot....Thanks, Tomoyo.

And I am far from sure that we will win this one by Diplomatic.

If we start with a curragh and that hut pops barbs, we're screwed.

Perhaps a warrior first? There isn't much we can build besides a curragh or warrior so we don't pop barbs.

If we start with a curragh and that hut pops barbs, we're screwed.


We can always delay the curragh build by working the non bonus grasslands until turn ten, or building something else for the first ten.


Edit: @g-man, didn't think this would fill this fast. Why do I have the feeling nobody but you read the whole opening post? :mischief:

I was about to suggest a Warrior, then realized that that would only be a teensy bit better than a Curragh (we'd have some defense). I guess we could do The Pyramids as a placeholder and then waste five shields on the Curragh.

Edit: @g-man, didn't think this would fill this fast. Why do I have the feeling nobody but you read the whole opening post? :mischief:
actually, i blame akots, as he sent me my pbem turn and i played that immediately after putting my little one to sleep, instead of checking this forum :lol:

good luck!

Edit: @g-man, didn't think this would fill this fast. Why do I have the feeling nobody but you read the whole opening post? :mischief:I read it. Honest!

Well...

Kinda, at least. :blush: Once I skimmed over it, I knew it was a RBC Numidian Redux. :)

EDIT: What about Pyramids as a placeholder for a granary?

EDIT2: Two warriors is what I usually do in these situations.

EDIT3: Oh, thanks for the reminder, grahamiam.

EDIT4: I think I'm done editting now. :crazyeye:

Good luck all, I'd love to join this one but I have two 100K SG's going on that are taking over an hour a turn, although Tomoyo is in both of those as well so keep an eye on him :)

on the GH issue - will you get barbs from a GH popped by cultural expansion? I don't think I've seen that. Usually get a worthless map or it's deserted.

Good luck all, I'd love to join this one but I have two 100K SG's going on that are taking over an hour a turn, although Tomoyo is in both of those as well so keep an eye on himI shouldn't have joined. :(

*goes off to play Xteam SGOTM6...*

I'll keep an eye on Tomoyo ... :) How do you propose we use the Pyramids as a placeholder for a granary when we won't have anything to expand with to trade for Pottery?

Warrior [explore] -> Warrior [defense against barbs if we get them, then explore] -> Curragh -- what about this? Of course, if we meet others or trade for Pottery it could change, but it's a good start.You can get barbs from cultural expansion Gator, I've seen it happen all too many times.

Who will start this one off? If someone doesn't post a got it by midday tomorrow, I'll take it, otherwise, go ahead anyone, too late for me tonight to make good decisions.

PS/offtopic: How many SGs are you in Tomoyo? Only 2 according to your sig ... but I've counted more.

How do you propose we use the Pyramids as a placeholder for a granary when we won't have anything to expand with to trade for Pottery?We don't. :blush:

The build order was what I was thinking of, kinda.

I need to play Xteam now, so I can't start.

And I'm in... let's see.

Xteam SGOTM
Gator01
Tomo2
MPSG2
This

on the GH issue - will you get barbs from a GH popped by cultural expansion? I don't think I've seen that. Usually get a worthless map or it's deserted.

Yes, I've had it happen to me. I had a warrior.

Thanks MeteorPunch that's good to know - so the key is not having any military units to guarantee no barbs from the GH.

Yes, with no military, no barbs. We could always pop it with our worker.

Grahamiam (awesome avatar, BTW), if you had your heart set on this one, I would gladly defer to you. Enjoyed your write-ups in the Magnificent Seven game.

@Bezhukov, you want to kick this one off?

And Ginger Ale can follow tomorrow?

Otherwise why don't you start us off tomorrow, GA?

Take it away, GA, I'll wait until Grahamiam decides what he wants to do. If I had to decide I game I would most like to play, this would be the one, but on the other hand, I have a pretty full plate of games already.

Got it, then.

Turn 0 - 4000 BC
Worker moves SW to BG on river, settler founds in spot.
There is another fur south of our current fur.
We start maximum research on Bronze Working, due in 21. This is a commercial tech..

Turn 1 - 3950 BC
Worker mines.

Turn 4 - 3800 BC
IBT: Carthage: Warrior -> Warrior

Turn 5 - 3750 BC
Worker finishes mine, starts road.
Warrior heads W, heading inland.

Turn 6 - 3700 BC
Our warrior spots a cow surrounded by 9 mountains!

Turn 7 - 3650 BC
Worker finishes road, moves to furs.
We meet England to our immediate West. They have a settler/warrior pair 4 tiles from our borders. Ouch.
Trade Masonry for Pottery and 35 gold.

Turn 8 - 3600 BC
Worker starts chopping forest.

IBT: Carthage: Warrior -> Curragh

Turn 9 - 3550 BC
Warrior fortifies incase of barbs.

Turn 10 - 3500 BC
Well what do you know, we got barbs...

IBT: We kill one.
Carthage: Curragh -> Granary

Turn 11 - 3450 BC
3/3 Warrior vs. 2/2 Conscript Barb - we win unscathed. Now there is only 1 barb left in the mountains.
Lux tax to 10% as we moved the warrior as MP out.

Turn 12 - 3400 BC
Darn, the English learn BW .. and they know CB as well.

Turn 14 - 3300 BC
Meet the French to the NW. Trade Pottery for BW and 35 gold.
We turn research to 0% as no other techs give us a commercial benefit.

Turn 17 - 3150 BC
Worker hooks up furs, moves to other BG.

Turn 20 - 3000 BC
We grow to size 3, granary in 3.

I'm not sure whether the granary was the right move, but if I did a settler we wouldn't grow quick enough, if I did a warrior/curragh we'd go over the unit limit right now (4). After the granary, build a settler and increase that limit.

Beware though, we'll have to disband one unit when we build the settler as we'll have five units. There's some nice land to the north. I'm thinking about a tight build (3 tiles apart) for this map, we need to get some cities and hope for iron.


Bede: We can only research a TECH that will give us commercial benefit, not a part (ie; Code of Laws is ok, but NOT Writing -> Code of Laws). I wasn't sure of this, so I turn research off until we can buy Writing / Mathematics for CoL and Currency.

Save, Non-Tomoyo Style (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_BC3000.SAV) ;)
Link to Map of Homeland (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_3000BC.JPG)

Ginger_Ale - just played
Bezhukov - UP!
Tomoyo - on deck
Cuivienen
Bede

Reminder: We need to expand to rivers. We can't work tiles without a gold and I don't want to wait for a road.

Take it away, GA, I'll wait until Grahamiam decides what he wants to do. If I had to decide I game I would most like to play, this would be the one, but on the other hand, I have a pretty full plate of games already.
Bezhukov, don't worry about me, there will be other games to play soon ;) Enjoy and good luck!

Spoken like a true gentlelorax. :lol:

Who's up now - is there a roster for this one yet?

Ginger_Ale - just played
Bezhukov - UP!
Tomoyo - on deck
Cuivienen
Bede

I would assume that, while both Writing and Mathematics do not provide a commercial benefit in game terms, they certainly would in real life and so would be researchable. Perhaps I misunderstood the variant rules.

I would be inclined to agree with Tomoyo that we need to expand to rivers except that there are very few potential city sites along rivers. We need to build wherever we can right now as we have two neighbors greedy for territory.

Got it, will play this evening.

Well, Mathmatics give us Catapults, which can be used to "acquire" some money... :satan:

Sorry, gang, but if the knowledge does not provide direct Commercial benefit, it must be purchased.

@Tomoyo, Roster looks good to me, so go with it.

Game Plan: I think a little looser build than normal will work better as it will maximise commercial potential, depends on what the neighbors are up to, though.

Remember that as a SEA nation we do get a city center commerce benefit on coastlines.

@Bede: I just copied it off of GA's post. ;)

Further thoughts:

This is a game of trade, so trade routes are important. Connect to the neighbors soonest. Even if it means buying RoP for road building. And we want those guys to have lots of money to buy our stuff, anyway.

Even if it means not having roads in our own cities?

Further thoughts:

This is a game of trade, so trade routes are important. Connect to the neighbors as soon as it makes sense Even if it means buying RoP for road building. And we want those guys to have lots of money to buy our stuff, anyway.

I guess as soon as it makes sense.

Pre-flight: this will be a challenge indeed, as our prime real estate is already being snagged by our neighbors, and the variant restricts our options vis-à-vis readjusting the ownership of these lands.

2850BC: Granary completes, building wealth for two turns so settler is timed with growth.

2590BC: disband exploring warrior to stay under unit support limit when new settler comes in.

2550BC: Settler->warrior, curragh uncovers cow to south. Hmmm, should we fight England for it?

2510BC: wow, Barb shows up next to settler, along with an English warrior! Carthage will make warrior next turn, necessitating curragh disbandment.

IBT: English warrior takes out barb for us.

2430BC: Utica founded, claiming cow and second furs.

IBT: English warrior takes out another barb for us

2390BC: unfortunately, Utica cannot work the cow, as it does not produce commerce yet. Worker on the way.

IBT: English demon warrior clears barb camp for us.

2350BC: Carthage:curragh->settler on growth in 5. I played 15, as I wasn’t sure if I should play 10 or 20, so spilt the difference. Once settler is produced in Carthage, could be a good time to make a couple more workers. Industrious is extra nice in this variant!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede4.JPG

Got it. Will play tomorrow. Tired now.

I don't understand the wealth, though.

Re: wealth ->given the unit support limits of the variant, I could see no other good option that did not involve delaying the settler longer than we could afford to, given the land-grabbibg going on all about. This should be less of a problem now that we have another city down.

BTW, there appears to be a sea-bridge at the top of our continent that may allow additional contacts. Held off on tech dealing to see if anything materializes. Might be a good time for some dotmaps.

I agree with Bezhukov on his Wealth move.
Timing a settler with growth is nice to keep our commerce high, and we couldn't build other units.

I forgot about the unit support rule. Maybe I should go read the variant rules again?

Nice unconventional move on the wealth/growth/settler. That's the kind of thinking it will take to make this work.

2350BC (0): All's good.

2310BC (1): Worker keeps moving.

2270BC (2): The AIs just got a lot of techs. The only brokerable tech is the Wheel, which the English want an arm and half an ear for.

IT: Utica: Warrior --> Curragh

2190BC (4): Worker starts roading cow.

IT: Carthage: Settler --> warrior

2150BC (5): France got the Wheel. :(

Spot a Green border.

2110BC (6): Road on the cow finishes, Utica works it.

Meet the Greeks. I give them 40 gold, Masonry, and Pottery for Iron Working.

We have iron in the Carthaginian hill and southeast of Utica.

IT: Carthage: Warrior --> Barracks

2030BC (8): Leptis Magna founded in the only good spot, but it is two tiles away from York.

1990BC (9): Spot a blue border.

1950BC (10): Meet the Koreans.

Notes to the next player:
- All AIs are up The Wheel, Warrior Code, and Ceremonial Burial.
- We need more room... are we allowed to attack if the AI is the one that declares war on us?
- Oh, and yeah... nothing more.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_1950BC_dotmap.jpg (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_BC1950.SAV)

If we are attacked we may prosecute the resulting war with vigor and dispatch.

Roster:
Cuivienen - up
Bede
Ginger_Ale
Bezhukov
Tomoyo

Um... interesting city placement. What happened to the coastal plan? What commerce-producing tile is Leptis working (is that BG on a river)?

Let's do some dotmaps before progressing further.

Got it, waiting for further discussion.

Um... interesting city placement. What happened to the coastal plan? What commerce-producing tile is Leptis working (is that BG on a river)?

Let's do some dotmaps before progressing further.There were no coastal cities that could work inland gold tiles. Leptis is working a BG river.

We are definitely squizzed here. The dotmap I put together just before Tomoyo posted looked a lot like his.

We will have to garrison pretty heavily in Leptis to keep it our of the hands of the English. But any other spot would have been just as bad.

The hill betwen Leptis and Reims should be able to work a riverside, and the blue dot on the coat has the coast.

Never let it be said that I stack the maps in our favor.....

"Leptis is working a BG river."

Cool. It was hard to tell from the picture. We need some more workers ASAP.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede4dot.JPG

The site near Carthage is the only tile that can reach either whale, and it gets both. Good place to make some workers.

I agree with Tomoyo's dotmap a bit more than Bez's. Commercialists wouldn't like cities this close, as it increases corruption and doesn't have good potential in the long run. We need to fully expand as much as possible, build markets (should we even bother with Libraries, at least now? There are so few commercial techs.) After that we need to prepare for a war, hoping we find a city that has resources by it (so we absolutely canNOT take cities from the AI if they don't have resources? Ouch.).

If York culture-flips, can we keep it?

>in the long run.

In the long run (obviously) many of the cities on that dotmap would be disbanded. But we are unlikely to get to the longrun without the short term help they can provide. This far under OCN, there is a marginal negative impact corruption-wise, but a major positive impact on keeping our developed tiles worked (the whale town can grab tiles Carthage is not working as it regrows pop). You could conceivably use Whaletown to feed workers to join Carthage to speed up settler production.

I could actually see Whaletown becoming viable long-term, only costing Carthage the tile on which it is placed, as Whaletown can work the two whales for extra food to support working the mountains. The town between Carthage and Leptis would preforce be temporary, but would help bring the cow into our territory much quicker.

The northwestern town can bring in the cow. The problem I see with Whaletown is that it will bring all the cities up on rank in rank corruption. Also, we're not Commerical. We're Seafaring and Industrious.

Can we take York because it's a danger to our fur city of Leptis Magna? :mischief:

Think "no research" in your strategy and all will be well. So markets are worth more to us than libraries.

Bezukov's map offers more potential in the only run that counts right now and that is the short one. Whale City won't have much in the way of shields to offer 'till the borders expand but it will generate some powerful coin and the risk of losing it to France is way low.

I'm less convinced about the spot between Carthage and Leptis.

The reason for the cities crowding Carthage is that if we leave Carthage on a ten-turn settler cycle, which would be a good idea to get some cities down, though I'm open for alternatives - building the early granary pretty much commits us to that approach, however, to make up the investment, if we do that, there will be very produtive tiles surrounding Carthage that will go unworked for a good long while unless we found some cities close by to work them.

Once Carthage gets all the little ones all raised and out the door, then she can enjoy her retirement and expand out into all her glory. Until then, she could make use of some nursemaids.

Ok, expand outwards, grabbing territory as fast as you can, and then backfill the guaranteed cities.

(1) 1910 BC - Utica completes a Curragh. It starts a Settler (It won't be done for more than 10 turns, so it can be vetoed.) The new Curragh sets out to see if there is land beyond the tiny tundra island.
(2) 1870 BC - The road completes; Utica is now connected to our trade network! The Phoenician Merchants rejoice.
(3) 1830 BC - Leptis Magna completes its Warrior. It starts a Worker since it won't be able to work another tile when it grows anyway. The English have discovered Mathematics. There are no indications of a sea bridge off the coast of the tundra island.
(4) 1790 BC – Carthage completes its Barracks and starts a Warrior. The Greek city of Sparta has completed The Colossus. Our northern Curragh reaches the northern edge of the Greek-Korean island.
(5) 1750 BC – The English begin The Pyramids. It would be nice if they built them in London; it has Silk in its radius and so can be attacked and taken if we ever end up at war with England. We discover the exotic creatures called “Elephants” near Pusan in Korea. Apparently their tusks are of great value in trade… Perhaps the Phoenician merchants will be interested later.
(6) 1725 BC – Carthage finishes the Warrior and starts a Settler, due with growth in 4. We are very close our support limit; we may want to disband a Regular Warrior somewhere.
(7) 1700 BC – Utica grows and is forced to work either a Coast tile (1f, 2g) or the Furs Forest (1f, 2s, 1g). Either one is less-than-fabulous, but I choose the Forest. The Settler is due in 4 there. What may be a route to another island appears on the far coast of Greece-Korea.
(8) 1675 BC – England demands 38 gold. I give in. Leptis Magna finishes its Worker and starts a Granary as a Temple pre-build. Hopefully we will get Ceremonial Burial soon, and, if not, the next player can always switch it to something else.
(9) 1650 BC – The potential sea route is not safe for our Curragh. I think I’ll leave it up to the next player whether to risk the Curragh or not.
(10) 1625 BC – Carthage finishes its Settler. I set it to start another one, but this is completely vetoable. I’ve left the northern Curragh unmoved to let the team decide whether or not to risk it.

This is working out better than I had imagined. :D

Got it.

Got to stay alert for opportunities now that we have new friends. On opening I acquired all known techs except Mysticism by brokering Mathematics from our home island to the Greeks and Koreans and kept enough in the treasury to finance research to Currency.

More later.

Check the trade options and find Mathematics known to France and England but not to Korea and Greece. So, Joan gets the first bid as she is broke having bought Math from England

Mathematics for 257g out of our 408.

England's offer is 281 so Joan gets the business.

Greece has the most cash so let's see what he offers for Maths: Ceremonial Burial, The Wheel, Warrior Code and 111g. I can live with that but just for giggles ask Wang what he'll go. He won't offer more than two techs, phooey. So Alex gets the business.

Four techs for a net cost of 146g. I can buy a fifth for another 150 or so but it turns out there isn't anybody to buy it from me. Phoenicians are "day traders", we don't buy and hold.

The Little Island to the south has horses on the hill.

And I set the Merchant Priests to studying Currency.

In 1550 we connect to England and I can sell them furs for 105g. As the trade route looks pretty safe, barring war with France, ship the ermine and miniver.

For the next 300 years it was pretty quiet. The workers just managed to stay ahead of the population and the first NuMerc was built in Carthage.

Joan stopped by and wanted to sell us Mysticism for 150g. She wanted the cash to buy Poyltheism from England because immediately after Liz started the Temple of Artemis. I turned her down because I had no one to sell it on to and there was no market for Polytheism either.

Founded three towns. The curragh that circumnavigated the continent sank within sight of Carthage, while the other made it across the ocean to a continent west of Greece, which appears empty so far.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede05_1250_01.jpg


We are well within the unit support limits so the military and work force can continue to grow.

I was not as worker efficient as I should have been as the cows in the valley have not been roaded yet and I wasted some time in other places.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede05_1250BC_00.jpg

Roster check:
GingerAle - up
Bezhukov - on deck
Tomoyo
Cuivienen
Bede

Looks... crowded. At least Oxford has iron...

Oh, and BTW please go to viper's avatar soon... I already changed...

/delurk/ You guys are confusing me! Was post #67 from Bede or Tomoyo? It's too early in the morning for me to have an identity crisis. /relurk/

/delurk/ You guys are confusing me! Was post #67 from Bede or Tomoyo? It's too early in the morning for me to have an identity crisis. /relurk/That's the whole point. :mischief:

Got it, some time for discussions before I play is about a couple hours.

Will build up military + commerce power.

(Unsuprisingly), I'd like to get a couple more cities down. Let's get to FP level before warring, as an FP could boost our econ nicely, while supporting a decent army.

Let's also chop that forest being roaded by Leptis for some walls. He will have mountains to work someday if his spare food becomes too much. Would also like to get the coin from that gold mountain in our coffers as soon as is feasible.

Turn 0 - 1250 BC
Looks good - we could MM some cities, but the tiles wouldn't have commerce.
Mysticism is very cheap to buy (under 170 gold), but I'll wait until either Korea: gets it, or gets something else so that we can buy it with a purpose.

Turn 1 - 1225 BC
IBT: Utica: Temple -> Worker

Turn 2 - 1200 BC
IBT: Leptis Magna: Temple (good cultural pressure now on York) -> Barracks

Turn 3 - 1175 BC
Reduce science to 90%, still Currency in 6.

IBT: Utica: Worker -> Barracks

Turn 4 - 1150 BC
IBT: Carthage: Worker -> NuMerc
Theveste: Temple -> Worker

Turn 6 - 1100 BC
IBT: Theveste: Worker -> Barracks (placeholder for Market)

Turn 8 - 1050 BC
We can trade Furs and 121 gold to the English for Silks and Mysticism. I agree.

IBT: Currency -> 0% Science, we can't research Code of Laws
Leptis Magna: Barracks -> NuMerc
Theveste switched to Marketplace.

Turn 9 - 1025 BC
Sell Currency to England for Polytheism and 464 gold. Sell it to Greece for 66 gold, and France for 47. We now have 768 gold, with 23 per turn.

Turn 10 - 1000 BC
Starting a suicide curragh run to the west of the uninhabited island.

Good progress.

Note: Code of Laws allows for courthouses which have commercial advantage (corruption reduction). Not that we need it for that but it does make good trade bait.

I might have held off on the Currency trade to Greece as they lack contacts with France or England IIRC.

Roster check:

Bezhukov - up
Tomoyo - on deck
Cuivienen
Bede
GingerAle

Got it. Will play this evening.

Pre-flight: research on Code of Laws is explicitly allowed in the first page of the thread, but we lack writing. Liz already has monarchy somehow. Swap Utica to Market, Theveste to barracks, MM tiles to get merc in Carthage in one. Minor starts on temple to get pressure on nearby Joanie town. With all this gold lying around, and iron yet to be hooked, I’m going to build some vet warriors for upgrade when necessary, and MP duty until then. Go for market in Carthago, with granary in Utica, since he has the cow.

975BC: Magna:warrior->warrior, curragh heads west – cross fingers.

950BC: No land yet, but no sinkage either.

925BC: Magna:warrior->warrior, cow now functional. Curragh continues.

900BC: red border sighted!

875BC: Utica:granary->settler, Magna:warrior->warrior. India completes Great Lighthouse. Seoul competes Statue of Zeus. And… our curragh sinks.

850BC: nada

825BC: Magna:warrior->warrior, Liz now has construction

800BC: Theveste:barracks->merc, ship Joanie furs for wines and 18 gold.

775BC: Great. London completes Temple of Artemis. Magna:warrior->market.

750BC: Carthago:market->curragh. Utica:settler->curragh, forest chop reveeal another BG for Magna.

Well, we gots a decent supply of vet warriors and plenty of cash for upgrades, if war is in the offing. Carthago got his market built, Utica is set up to make some settlers/workers as needed.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede4-750.JPG

What's wrong with these people they "no research" too? Somebody out there has to know how to write....

Here is a really radical idea.....hook up the iron, upgrade the warriors, then sell the iron to somebody who might need it. Then build NuMercs. Should war start we can ally with the other guy and then watch our enemy tear our ally apart. The bad guys won't go up against a D3 unit if there are D2's handy.

Roster check:

Tomoyo - up
Cuivienen
Bede
GingerAle
Bezhukov

First order of business is suicide curraghs. I vote for going east from the main continent. It is also probably a good time to settle whaletown and a town by the iron.

We could always take Seoul for the luxes there, and um, also SoZ.

I suppose it's two more towns while getting the swords to attack Angle-land?

:hammer:

Oh, and we need Writing, don't we. No one has writing, eh? That sucks.

No one has writing is a good thing - the longer they take, the more gold we get. I'm suprised at how much we do have already.

No one has writing is a good thing - the longer they take, the more gold we get. I'm suprised at how much we do have already.

That's both a blessing and a curse, as having all that gold sitting around is going to create demanding neighbors.

@Tomoyo, better get out your thesaurex. "That sucks" is way pedestrian.

Well, Gandhi's had writing for a turn or two - after all, he's already completed the Great Lighthouse. :eek: I say Carthago cranks curraughs til we meet him. As for demanding neighbors - we're getting very close to the point where we can store their demands nicely next to their severed heads.

Utica can make a couple settlers (to get unit support up, and generate a bit more coin) alternating with curraughs of his own. Other towns may do well to get some walls thrown up, as times could soon turn testy.

Our industrious trait has been very useful in this game - with our wealth of bg's and our alacrity in mining them, this is about the most productive despotic civ I've seen. The flip side of this is that a despotic GA won't help much, and if we start war now, that's what we'll get.

I suppose that there is a chance that the AI will just avoid our impenetrable NuMes, and go after whatever neglected town in our rear that doesn't have a NuMe in it...

We need many more curraghs, too... Were the Phoenicians not the postal service of the ancient world?

Is that felicitous, Bede? :p

Wassup with this identity switch? Did I miss something? :)

- Sirian

Indeed you did. The Avatar Switch. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=115065) Whomp is Admiral Kutzov, AK is Whomp... Bede is Tomoyo, Tomoyo is Bede ... argh! Look at the user name, and not the avatar for the REAL identity. ;)

Tomoyo, I bet you had to look up 'felicitous' in the dictionary. :P

I don't know about that he knows what celerity means. Ginger I think you should be Sirian for the rest of the day!

EDIT: Tried to look something up in the dictionary and made a x-post. :blush:

Indeed you did. The Avatar Switch. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=115065) Whomp is Admiral Kutzov, AK is Whomp... Bede is Tomoyo, Tomoyo is Bede ... argh! Look at the user name, and not the avatar for the REAL identity. ;)

Tomoyo, I bet you had to look up 'felicitous' in the dictionary. :POh? It takes real proficiency with a lexicon to find a word that you didn't know existed beforehand. :p

Celerity means quickness, doesn't it? I didn't look it up, so I'm not sure.

You're good kid, you're good.

It helps that I take Latin. :)

Well I understand that Civ4 is due out with unexpected celerity. (Details in the Civ4 ideas forum). :satan:

- Sirian

Well I understand that Civ4 is due out with unexpected celerity. (Details in the Civ4 ideas forum). :satan:

- SirianI do believe that that fallacious claim is apparantly the subject for an occasion originating in a misfallen passing of years.

No one has writing is a good thing - the longer they take, the more gold we get. I'm suprised at how much we do have already.

The first reason for this being bad has already been said, but not having Writing risks the other civs that we haven't met yet grabbing Writing and getting a large tech lead.

I think that we should go to war ASAP, but try to avoid using Numidian Mercenaries if possible. Just build a ton of Archers and attack whatever comes to attack us. We can take Oxford and raze York, then take London is we can get that far, as London has luxuries in its radius.

IIRC we have iron, so we can use swordmen. :D

Re-read the first post. Golden Age flag on the NuMerc is "off", so no GA from defending our towns.

So we have the attack of an archer and the defense of a pike....I'm sure you can think of somehting to do with that.

My intent was to allow a strong defense. That should allow us to play the trading game. Accumulate lots of coin and keep the difficult neighbors under our control.

"This is a game of commerce", not warfare.

It helps that I take Latin. :)

3rd declension, celeritas, celeritatis, f., swiftness or speed. Latin helps...can't believe I know that word.

Re Sirian: Gotta love unsupported, unconfirmed rumors on April Fool's Day - they ALWAYS tell the truth! ;)

Re Bede: I agree about war - also, the only towns we can take are ones with resources, right? Oxford and some other towns might flip, but if not, NuMercs will come in handy.

Re Bede: I agree about war - also, the only towns we can take are ones with resources, right? Oxford and some other towns might flip, but if not, NuMercs will come in handy.


2) Offensive warfare limited to the acquistion of tradeable resources.


The ideal acquisition would be to seize the resource without taking a city, don't know if that is feasible given AI settlemetn habits. You are right about the limitation, though.

Cultural conversion is also an option, as is propaganda.

@GA: The only reason I know that word is because of the stupid phrase magna cum __________, (usually gaudio, happiness, but we always translate it as Joy with a capital "j") and sometimes we have "celeritate" there instead for assignments...

@Baeda Venerablilis: does the resource have to be in AI borders, or can it be in their twenty-one tile radius, like in York?

The key is "cui bono". If it is outside the borders put a town on it and it is our "bono". If that represents aggressive settlement and precipitates a declaration of war, then so be it.

"That sucks" is way pedestrianThis is actually a historically accurate quote from Ibn ban Idiot.It takes real proficiency with a lexicon to find a word that you didn't know existed beforehandthis means I can make up my own words, Igor thinks. To put the idiot mark on this, go plop on lux.

Plop on lux, you say? That would be an interesting method of warfare - just send in a settler with a crew of mercs and settle on the AI's luxes...

Squatter's rights?

Possession is nine tenths of the law, right.

Then sign a peace treaty and sell it right back to them...........

BTW, what's the roster look like?

Tomoyo - up
Cuivienen
Bede
GingerAle
Bezhukov

Oh, got it. Didn't know I was up.

750BC (0): One look at the tech tree makes me go "Wow!". We don't have Writing, but we have Currency and Polytheism? Wow.

730BC (1): England has HBR. Buy an English slave for 120 gold. At least it doesn't cost anything to maintain.

IT: Carthage: Curragh --> Curragh

710BC (2): Sabratha founded in the whale city spot. Utica grew and is now working a coast square. Switch Utica to settler.

IT: Hippo: Temple --> Barracks

690BC (3): Good luck, suicide curragh.

There's a brokering opportunity (and Writing), but Construction costs too much. I buy Writing for 270 gold.

Research to max on CoL.

IT: Carthage: Curragh --> Curragh

670BC (4): Curragh spots purple border.

IT: Theveste: NuMe --> NuMe

650BC (5): Our curragh sinks. :(

IT: Carthage: Curragh --> Curragh
Utica: Settler --> Settler

630BC (6): Our curragh survives.

610BC (7): Meet the Iroquois. Polytheism and Currency get us Map Making, Code of Laws, and Philosophy. Then, I give England Code of Laws and 20 gold for Construction.

Construction, Code of Laws, and Philosophy to France gets us Monarchy, Horseback Riding, and 100 gold.

We enter the Medieval Times and turn research off.

IT: Orleans completes the Hanging Gardens.

590BC (8): Carthage switches builds to NuMe, Utica to Galley. (Spot that I intended the settler for filled up)

On further thought, Utica back to settler.

IT: Carthage: NuMe --> NuMe.

570BC (9): Iron is hooked up. Upgrade four warriors. Rusicade founded.

IT: Hastings completes the Great Wall. :( Lose our supply of Silks and decide not to renew. Lux up a notch.

550BC (10): Upgrade two more warriors.

Notes:
- Last city to be founded is the iron city.
- England's gonna be tough with the Great Wall. We have no idea where Hastings is, but it's probably the city southeast of London. I hope it has a resource.
- Some more NuMes, and I think we can attack England. We might not want to, but it would help us, although not the variant.

Patria Nostra (I think that's the word):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_550BC_Home.jpg

Terra Anglorum:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_550BC_TerraAnglorum.jpg

Et savus. :rolleyes: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_550BC.SAV)

Why not take on Lyons (it has horses), with English assistance?

This would allow the English to burn up some of their troops, at least. Why aren't we researching Republic?

Why not take on Lyons (it has horses), with English assistance?

This would allow the English to burn up some of their troops, at least. Why aren't we researching Republic?1) Sure, why not? I would love to take Hastings for the GW and wines, but that's much harder.

2) Because I forgot that there were unresearched AA techs. :blush: Please fix that, next player.

Making progress. I am inclined to go with Bezhukov and poach the French horses. An alternative might be laod up some galleys and swipe the coastal wines out from under the noses of the English.

Reseach Republic ASAP, it's not like we are short of gold, and it sounds like we have some really nice brokerage opportunities coming up. Open embassies with at least one on every continent so we have the "who knows who" information.

Rota:

Cuivienen - up
Bede
GingerAle
Bezhukov
Tomoyo

BTW, how does one determine the "who knows who" info? Also, when you revolt, where do you find out how many turns it will be? :blush:

I'm as concerned about ToA as the Great Wall, especially if we don't plan on attacking cities much - but the damage has largely already been done there. Unlucky that one. If we do go after the English, Nottingham also has horse, and allows a squat on the silks next door.

"Who knows who" info comes from F4. If there's a line between them, they know each other. You find out the length of an anarchy in the F1 advisor dialogue box.

If we go after the English, we can always go for the wines city... which most likely has the Great Wall...

I would be more inclined to go after the English than the French; they have Horses, Wines AND Silks available, whereas the French only have Horses easily accessible. The true merchant goes for the greatest profit.

I got it, but I may not play until tomorrow evening as I have TOMO2 to play tonight.

savus =/= save

Do you have a better word for "save"? :p ;)

Well, integer describes something that is preserved, so integrus may mean "a thing that is preserved" - a "save."

Okay, but AFAIK integrus isn't a word... Been staying up too late, Cuivienen? (You said it yourself, integer is the masculine nominative form...)

Why not take on Lyons (it has horses), with English assistance?

This would allow the English to burn up some of their troops, at least. Why aren't we researching Republic?

No, don't go against the French. Go against the British. We can take: Oxford (Iron), Nottingham (Horses) (those are two cities on our border), and then possibly Hastings with Wines.

What about the silks in English territory that aren't part of any city (nice job city spacing AI!).

What about the silks in English territory that aren't part of any city (nice job city spacing AI!).We can plop a city on it. :D

Okay, but AFAIK integrus isn't a word... Been staying up too late, Cuivienen? (You said it yourself, integer is the masculine nominative form...)

Integer is an adjective. We need a noun.

We can use it as a substantive adjective, though.

No, don't go against the French. Go against the British. We can take: Oxford (Iron), Nottingham (Horses) (those are two cities on our border), and then possibly Hastings with Wines.

What about the silks in English territory that aren't part of any city (nice job city spacing AI!).

I would be more inclined to go after the English than the French; they have Horses, Wines AND Silks available, whereas the French only have Horses easily accessible. The true merchant goes for the greatest profit.



I like the way you guys are thinking here.

OK, just make sure we get Joanie to pitch in, as the English haven't had the opportunity to try out all their nice, shiny units as of yet. Joanie would make a nice sparring partner for them, as she can only produce def 2 units.

Preceeding two sentences brought to you by Captain Obvious. :lol:

Any update Cuivienen?

She just posted in Tomo02 and said she's having computer problems.

Clock still has 3 hours to run.

I have it and will start play at 5:41 EDT.

Roster check:

Bede - up
GingerAle - on deck
Bezhukov
Tomoyo
Cuivienen - skipped to ma Lou

Opened some embassies:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_530BC_England.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_530BC_France.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_530BC_Korea.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_530BC_Iroquois.jpg

Met the Indians and the Romans.

Did a few deals:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_510BC_00.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_510BC_01.jpg

Renewed the furs to England for all her cash as it is going to take us until its expiration to line things up. We need more boats.

Renewed the furs for wines deal with Joan in its expiry, then decided to take advantage of Korea's Scientific trait....and sold Wang the last of the AA technology with Monarchy in reserve...He draws Engineering and won't trade it for Monarchy and all the coin in Carthage. :rolleyes: :( :mad:

Started the burn towards Republic. Built a harbor in Utica to ugrade a curragh and to build vet galleys.

We are within three of the unit support limit.

Roster check:


GingerAle - up
Bezhukov - on deck
Tomoyo
Cuivienen - skipped to ma Lou
Bede

I see it, have the save, but won't play until tomorrow, sorry. It's a bit late as I go off to watch the NCAA finals now, and I don't think I can play thoroughly. Meanwhile:

1. Do we want the war before or after Republic? I'm leaning towards after, unless our cities grow past size 6 so we have some decent unit support.

2. A mix of swords / NuMercs for the war, about 50-50, or slightly more NuMercs?

Will stay on the lookout for trades.

Bezukhov: If you can play in the next 20ish hours, please go ahead and I'll go after you, just to keep the game moving. If I don't see a got it by 5:30 pm EDT, I'll take it. :)

I think 30-50-20 (swords-merc-cats). We want to take and hold. I'd like to start with an outpost right on top of the wines on the coast at Hastings.

England wants to cross our lands from the iron ville to York, so you may even be able to get a declaration out of them.

Turn 0 - 350 BC
We're good to go.

IBT: England declares war on the French. Now is the time for a war vs. English.

Turn 1 - 330 BC
Disband an obsolete warrior to save room for NuMercs.
Have to turn luxury up to 20% for Carthage.

Turn 4 - 270 BC
As we were within 1 of the unit limit and have 3 units next turn, disband two old warriors.
England now has Feudalism and pikemen...

Turn 5 - 250 BC
We need war now, before England gets more Pikes, but we respect our trading reputation and have to wait 9 turns until Furs deal ends.
We are exactly at the unit limit, so change some unit builds to markets.

Turn 6 - 230 BC
India discovers Republic. Since it is a benefit to the commercial Phoenicians, we sell Monarchy to the Indians for Republic and 197 gold. No one else has more than 32 gold, so there aren't other trading possibilities. We plunge into anarchy, and draw 7 turns.

IBT: Korea demands Monarchy. Since are across that stretch of land, we say no. Due to our military strength, they leave without war. :D

Turn 7 - 210 BC
Sell Republic to France for Feudalism and 7 gold.
Feudalism to Korea for Engineering.

Turn 10 - 150 BC
We are up on everyone by at least one tech. No one has more than 35 gold, (we have 851). England's deal where we give furs ends in 4 turns. Do we want war, if so, perhaps we should upgrade some of our swords to MDIs. We'll be out of anarchy in 3 turns.

Sweet. Four to go and we will be drinking fine English wine. Get that settler up and ready.

Bezhukov - gets to do the acquisition
Tomoyo - on deck
Cuivienen - skipped to ma Lou
Bede
GingerAle - finished the due diligence

Got it - will play tomorrow. Guidance on war preparations welcome.

Sorry - Bez1 took way too long to play, so will be Thursday evening before this war can be waged.

Pre-flight: Everyone eats this turn. I see riots in our future. Wow - we sure are losing the old culture battles! Hope we don’t start flipping out! :crazyeye:

130BC: No wonder everyone is unhappy – we’re sending liz furs, and she’s no longer sending us silks in return. :mad: This travesty will be repaid! All swords upgraded.

IBT: France pillages English horse.

110BC: York must go before any fancy schmancy lux stealing – he could flip half our core! Galleys return to port.

90BC: We are now a Republic. Tell Liz to vamoose – and she wisely complies. Leptis Minor:harbor->court.

70BC: It’s on! Liz will not give us silks for peace, she must die! :hammer: We move in on York.

50BC: Perhaps we should not have been so obvious. Our awesome artillery battery (two units) does one damage. We get very fortunate RnG and kill 4 reg pikes while losing one MDI, but one still stands. Also kill a galley by our coast.

30BC: Carthago:MDI->MDI, Magna:MDI->treb, Hippo:treb->treb. Artillery both hit, and we take out 3 more pikes (the last two with mercs attacking injured adversaries), losing another MDI. But the thorn of York is no longer in our side. :D It is razed for 4 slaves.

10BC: Theveste:merc->merc, Rusicade:temple->court

IBT: English move units out of Nottingham to attack approaching Frenchies.

10AD: Artillery goes 2 for 3, MDI’s win, and merc takes out remaining spear in Nottingham :) – will hold until settler gets in place for replace.

IBT: French and English make happy. We’d better hurry up and get those wines and silks.

50AD:missed a turn here somewhere – take out two English archers encroaching on our south. Finally upgrade two cats to trebs. Settler in place to poach both silks, another coming to replace Nottingham if it can hold one more turn. Forces in place to take Oxford.

We can take Hastings via land before making peace, if desired. France and India just got Lit.

Got it.

Pounding Lizzie, then making nice and trading with the world. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/York.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bedeweast.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bedewest.JPG

Yes, although I would not be too quick to trust Joanie's intentions...

Remember to adhere to this rule (nothing wrong has been done yet):

1) No standing army that exceeds the unit support levels (workers and settlers included) except during wartime. When the war is over excess troops must be demobilized in a convenient town until unit support drops to zero. Restriction is lifted in Democratic government.

Once we sign peace, disband old units. Remember that each city we can get to size 7 or above will give us 2 more units than a size 6 town. We need all the unit support and commerce we can get.

Hmmm, may want to switch magna (and some other towns) to aqueducts. Luckily, we do have some slaves now, so some notive workers can be joined, but we're well over unit support right now.

50AD (0): Looks good.

IT: English land a swordsman.

Leptis Magna: Settler --> FP.

70AD (1): Hadrumetum founded at the silks. Cirta founded, That city whose name I forgot abandoned. Kill an archer at Oxford.

IT: Kill an English archer with a NuMe.

Theveste: NuMe --> NuMe

90AD (2): Nora founded.

Battle of Oxford:
Vet MDI attacks reg spearman, loses, inflicting 1 damage.
Vet MDI attacks reg spearman, redlines but wins.
Elite MDI attacks reg spearman, wins losing 1 hp.

IT: Kill an archer with an MDI.

110AD (3): Deem Oxford untakeable. Lose a NuMe to a sword but kill it with a warrior.

IT: Carthage: MDI --> MDI
Utica: Settler --> Aqueduct

130AD (4): All the artillery misses. Wait. Rush the temple at Hadrumetum.

Engineering and 100 gold get up Monotheism from France.
Monotheism gets us Lit and 3gpt from India.

IT:

Hippo: Courthouse --> Library
Hardumetum: Temple --> Worker

150AD (5): Artillery misses again. Land settler pair on wines.

IT: Theveste: NuMe --> Market
Oea: Temple --> Market

170AD (6): Rusaddir founded on the wines.

Huh. We end up capturing Hastings with no casualties.

Get a serious case of hiccups. Hic. Hic. Hic. Hic.

IT: Nothing (hic) happens.

190AD (7): Nothing (hic) in the (hic) west left except (hic) London, so (hic) I turn (hic) east.

Hic.

IT: Carthage (hic): MDI --> Temple (hic)

The resistance in (hic) Hastings has (hic) ended.

210AD (8): Drop off (hic) troops at Oxford.

IT: Greece (Hic) declared war (hic) on the (hic) Koreans!

Rome demands (hic) Monarchy. (Wierd hiccup-ish noise) Whatever.

230AD (9): There's one (hic) defender (hic) left in Oxford.

Take (hic) it and the horse island for peace.

250AD (10): Nothing happens. (hiC)

After action report:

(hic) Can we (hiC) research Astronomy (hic) when we get (hic) there?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_250AD_West.jpg

Hic

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_250AD_East.jpg

(hic) (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_250AD.SAV)

Silk for my jammies, wine to drink and a horse to ride! :bounce:


Roster check:

Cuivienen - up
Bede - on deck
GingerAle
Bezhukov
Tomoyo - hic, haec, hoc?

Tomoyo - hic, haec, hoc?My Latin teacher can say all 30 forms in less than 20 seconds. :ack:

When I see "hic haec hoc" I immediately think "huiushuiushuiushuichuichuic" etc... :ack:

:whipped:


Bede - up and got it.
GingerAle - on deck
Bezhukov
Tomoyo - hic, haec, hoc?
Cuivienen - skipped

Twenty four hours to post a got it, forty-eight hours to play and post new save and log, seventy two hours allowed from posting of save. Skips are automatic after first twenty-four hours elapsed.

lurker's comment: [offtopic]

Bede, would it be possible for me to use/copy your prohibited rules onto my thread? Thanks

Like a good merchant my first task is take an inventory, the second task is go look for customers.

First thing I find is that we are over our unit support limit, so I disband some MDI's and NuMercs in the core towns but will have to wait a beat for the others.

Then renew the Furs deal to France getting 210g.

Fiddle the citizen assignments to get three turns off the FP.

Rush some temples and an acqueducts then add some native workers back to raise our populations.

Opened an embassy with Rome in 270AD to see what's doing with Julius and find this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05Rome270AD.jpg

Then get this news bulletin:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05News270AD.jpg

Make this deal with India in 300

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05IndiaTrade300AD.jpg

And another with Rome

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05RomeTrade300AD.jpg

And in 310 make another deal with France

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05FranceTrade310AD.jpg

And in 320 this one with Korea.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05KoreaTrade320AD.jpg

France started the Knights Templar just as soon as she acquired Chivalry as did India in 300.

I also shipped furs to Liz in 320.

Korea is whupping the Greeks on the island they share. Greece is down to two cities that will probably not last much longer. There is a piece of prime real estate on the soon to be Korean island that just happens to control ivory

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05Ivory350AD.jpg

It is in the far NW of the Greco-Kong island so well outside the trade network until Astronomy (which we can research as it opens the trade networks for us, we also should research Printing Press and Navigation for the trade opportunities, unless contacts have already been made and we do want to do everything we can to get the other nations in contact to hasten the research pace).

Some other more random strategy thoughts: Not much is going to happen until Printing Press and Astronomy are known (to us at least). Accordingly we need to keep the flow of information moving between the islands as we are the only such conduit right now.

We should also make a catalogue of desirable settlement spots (resources or luxuries) as the other guys fight wars (maybe with a little help from the Phoenicians) as we need to exploit cultural gaps for our trading outposts.

I thought briefly about a phony war so we could build military, then decided against it. Once we have identified targets for our intrepid traders, then we can start thinking about fomenting wars, building military than sailing off to take advantage of the openings provided.

Keep pushing the tech pace along, trading around knowledge as oit passes through our hands, always with our eyes on the big three: Printing Press, Astronomy and Navigation. Getting Magellan's wouuld be a big boost to our sailors so starting a pre-build somewhere might not be a bad idea.

The tech pace won't pick up until we start trading contacts between the islands so be prepared for some lengthy waits between brokering opportunities. But take advantage of them when they are there. Keep England and France happy with us, even if they get shirty towards one another.

France, India, Iroquois and Rome are most likely going to be the sources of the new knowledge. England has only three cities in mostly crummy terrain other than coastal tiles so her production will be weak while her research capcity may be pretty fair. I would spend freely on capitol investigations to try and get a feel for where the money is going, what the resource and luxury situations are.

Our ships need to be out looking for likely sources of saltpeter (the next most valuable resource). Korea appears to lack Iron (there is an unconnected source within the boundaries of Corinth which has just turned blue, :hmm: and has some nice dyes and ivory all in surplus..... :mischief:

This adventure is becoming a real challenge. There is much hard thinking that needs to be done, but little of it has to do with warfare.....

Roster Check:
GingerAle - up
Bezhukov - on deck
Tomoyo
Cuivienen
Bede

Got it, playing today.

Turn 0 - 350 AD
We have space for 6 more units before we go over unit support, nice.
Find a laborer in Nora working a plain grassland were there's an river, roaded grassland one tile away. ;)

Turn 1 - 360 AD
IBT: Carthage: NuMerc -> Library
Hippo: NuMerc -> Treb

Turn 2 - 370 AD
IBT: French build Knight's Templar.

Turn 4 - 390 AD
India has Invention. We establish an embassy with India.
They are: size 12, 3 sources of spices, 1 of gems, 3 happy citizens, 6 content, 2 unhappy, 1 entertainer.
A barracks, temple, market, cathedral, colosseum, Oracle. 6 Pikes and 1 Catapult. Library in 6 turns, at 9 spt. 1 horse and 1 iron resource.
I will try a steal of Invention soon if India doesn't trade it around. It costs 1487 gold + 65 gpt (2787 total gold) to buy, but only 1372 to steal. That's less than 50%!

IBT: Leptis Magna builds the FP.

Turn 6 - 410 AD
IBT: Greece and India sign peace.

Turn 10 - 450 AD
Brokering opportunity. India has Invention, France has Theology.
We can buy Theology for 2163 gold and Furs, or Invention for 2649 gold.
Alternatively, we can steal Invention safely for 1372 gold (we have 6 turns left of an incoming 23 gpt payment) or steal Theology for 1280 gold (we have 6 turns left of an outgoing 6 gpt payment, but it wouldn't hurt our rep if they declare).
Normally I'll finish up the last turn, but I'll leave to to the next person to decide whether to do these once the team decides.

We have 29 units out of 32 for unit support. From now on, we can build units and disband them in corrupt cities to get them more productive. When we get Theology, go after Printing Press in hopes of trading that and contacts around, if a good deal arises.

We're getting a good grip on this game.

So, should we steal or buy, and which tech? I'm leaning towards the French steal ...

Nice work, GA. I would be inclined to steal from India, because it is safest, should we fail and we can get some serious money out of Joan. I would really not like to have her "pikes with attitude" romping into our lands. But then I'm smitten with her coy and downcast eyes.

Roster Check:
Bezhukov - up
Tomoyo - on deck
Cuivienen
Bede
GingerAle

Got it. Will play tonight or tomorrow.

Back from my trip, and my parents got the computer checked out while I was gone and everything is better. Just alerting everyone.

Pre-flight: lux can go down a notch and keep all happy except Russicade and Utica, who get a taxman and can no longer work their tundra tiles. Pity that. I switch Utica to worker to get that iron mined.

Mise well pull the trigger on the India steal – we’re making 292 gpt, we’ll get the money back if things go badly.

Things go badly. We fail and are caught in our safe steal attempt. Well, we’ve already committed ourselves to a life of crime, so why not give it another go. This time – success! Joanie gives us Theology and 80 gold for our knowledge of Invention. Liz pays 15gpt and 70 gold for Monotheism. Hiawatha chips in 21 gpt and 50 gold for Invention. Alex is in a bad way, though he gives us 1 gpt and 12 gold for Construction. Wang is tapped out paying for all his AC’s.

Printing Press due in 5 at 90% sci, making 41 gpt. This research will allow us to sell contacts and generate more coin.

Not much happens until 500AD, when Printing Press comes in. Gandhi pays a pretty penny to get to know the world. 29 gpt and 40 extra to be exact. Hiawatha is curious about how the Korean Greek conflict is going, so we sell him those contacts for 120 gold.

In 520AD, Wang gives us 8 gpt and change for lit, as this is all his has. Perhaps his research pace will pick up with the benefit of cheap libraries.

BTW, we should be preparing to settle that open large island to the northwest as soon as we can grab Astronomy. Indeed, we should perhaps prepare in anticipation of its discovery.

In 530, our Indian friends have learned Gunpowder, but there is little to be gained from its acquisition.

In 550AD, Hiawatha somehow managed to amass enough gold to purchase Gunpowder from Gandhi.
Carthago has contructed a Coliseum for the entertainment of the populace; should a worker wish to rest from his labors there, I am confident that Carthaginian hospitality will not dissappoint. Carthago begins amassing shields for future great wonders…

Our people are so pleased with their Republic, they volunteered for an austerity program, lowering luxury expenditures to a parsimonious 10%, allowing our glorious empire to generate 335 gold per turn in income. Utica now has the benefit of a mine to facilitate more efficient iron removal, Russicade and Leptis Magna have found a happier distribution of their common lands, and several brave horsemen have sacrificed themselves to the cause of developing our newly acquired towns.

Nice steal. If it doesn't work the first time, try, try again. We'll do lots more stealing in the IA I suppose too. We can also self-research Banking, The Corporation ... any others?

I love it when we have all the money in the world. Keep up the good work!

One reason to know Gunpowder is to find the saltpeter and trade it to our friends.

Roster Check:
Tomoyo - up
Cuivienen
Bede
GingerAle
Bezhukov - nobody ever said Merchant-Kings were ethical when it comes to patents.

Tomoyo, you've got about 2 and 1/2 hours before a got it.

Ack! Got it!!!

Pre-flight: Do we want to break our PP monopoly? I'm holding off.

IT: Leptis Magna: Horseman --> Horseman

560AD: Press enter before I was ready.

IT: Cirta: Marketplace --> Library
Oea:: Horseman --> Horseman

570AD: Not much of anything.

IT: India declares war on the Iroquois. :hmm:

Hippo: MDI --> Horseman
Sabratha: Horseman --> Horseman

Nora riots, sorry!

580AD: Printing Press got out. Damnit. :wallbash:

OTOH, we have a two-fer with Education and Gunpowder available. :)

However, France is the one with a monopoly on Education. :(

Oh the good side, France doesn't have Printing Press! :)

Education from the French for Printing Press, Furs, Contacts w/Korea, Greece, Iroquois, and Rome, and 1400 gold.

Chivalry and 31 gold from India for Education.

Gunpowder from Iroquois for Education and Chivalry.

Research on Banking, at 90%, due in 6 turns.

Gunpowder to France for 1000 gold.

We have one source of saltpeter. It is under Hippo. As far as I can see, it's the only Saltpeter on our half of the world.

590AD: Meh.

IT: Hadrumetum: Marketplace --> Library

Madras completes Leo's Workshop.

600AD: Switch Carthage to Sistine's Chapel to act as a pre-build for Smith's.

610AD: ...

620AD: ...

IT: Nora: Market --> Library

Salamanca completes Sistine's. :wallbash:

630AD: Lower science to 40%...

IT:

Banking --> Economics

Utica: Courthouse --> Bank

640AD: Switch Bank prebuilds. Start Leptis Magna on a Smith's prebuild.

650AD: Sell Banking to the Iroquois for 130 gold and 113 gold per turn. Then to India for 19 gold, 15 gpt.

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_650AD.SAV)

Roster Check:
Cuivienen - tick-tock, up
Bede = on deck
GingerAle
Bezhukov
Tomoyo
__________________

113 gpt from the Iroquois and 15 from India! That's the way to do business - Smith's would be great for us, as well as getting us close to a GA (the Seafaring part down, then Hoover's Dam could get us the Industrious part).

If we fail to get Smith's what could we get for Commercial? Or are we SEA and IND?

SEA/IND, with a dispensation to build commercial wonders adn capture the rest.

Got it. (10)

Um, can we research Astronomy to get that open continent settled?

It is in the far NW of the Greco-Kong island so well outside the trade network until Astronomy (which we can research as it opens the trade networks for us, we also should research Printing Press and Navigation for the trade opportunities, unless contacts have already been made and we do want to do everything we can to get the other nations in contact to hasten the research pace)

I think so.

Seems Cuivienen's been misbehavin' :mischief:

So, I got it.

Roster check:

Bede - got it
GingerAle
Bezhukov
Tomoyo
Cuivienen - skipped due to "privilege retraction"

I think she's just been on the computer way too much. :lol:

She said she could play on Monday, though, so many a shuffle is in order?

Spent the cash hoard rushing commercial and cultural improvements. Skimmed a settler out of Utica and loaded the galleys with the settler and some NuMercs and headed for the island.

And here is the 670AD News Headline (film at eleven)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_670AD00.jpg

Followed by another headline

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_670AD01.jpg

Then in 680 this crosses the ticker

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_680AD01.jpg

So I bump the cash a little by selling Wang a date with Julius and in 690 call Gandhi and mortgage the economy for Astronomy just as the galleys reach the sea crossing to the NW island.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_690AD00.jpg

And then the ticker chatters on in 710

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_710AD00.jpg

Then in 720 Julius gets a wild hair

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_720AD00.jpg

We learn Economics in 700 and switch the Palace build to Smith's.

Meanwhile the Big Three (Iro, India and France) learns Chemistry. We still hold Economics as a monopoly and put the spurs to the research horses to get us to Navigation soonest.

The wires come alive in 730 with a piece of really bad news

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_730AD00.jpg

We lose the gold mine and a nice stretch of coast. The people respond by rushing culture at Hippo and two workers join the happy citizens of Hadrementum so we don't lose unit support.

In 740 the boats reach the island and in 750 Sulcis is founded discovering another source of saltpeter

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_750AD00.jpg

The galleys are heading home and there is a caravel with muskets and another settler on the way from Carthage to the island. A French caravel was sighted exploring the waters between the home island and Greco-Korea.

Navigation is due in 1 so get ready for some serious map trading. There is a lot of money in the world right now.

Roster check:

GingerAle - up
Bezhukov
Tomoyo
Cuivienen - skipped due to "privilege retraction"
Bede

Ouch on the flip. :(

Got it, will play later today as I have a bat mitzvah to attend.

Question: should I sell Navigation + WMs as soon as I get it?

Keep Navigation and trade maps like a madman until you have all the money in the world.

Set up a settler shuttle to the NW island but send a caravel to invesigate the Western lands.

Turn 0 - 750 AD
All is well.

IBT: Navigation -> 0% Research, earning 345 gpt.

Turn 1 - 760 AD
Trades: (we started with 442 gold and 345 gpt)
Navigation to the French for Chemistry, WM, 160 gold, and 22 gpt.
Navigation, Iron, Wines, and Furs to the Indians for Spices, WM, 145 gold, and 70 gpt.
Education and Horses to Korea for Dyes, 15 gold and Ivory.
Navigation and Silks to the Iroquois for 21 gpt, Gems, WM and 6 gold.
Chemistry to Rome for Incense, WM, and 7 gold.
We now own 8 luxuries. Luxury tax to 0%. The people couldn't be happier. All happy citizens / specialists except for 1 unhappy and 1 content citizen. :cool:
We gained 333 gold, and 207 gpt!

Pop the goody hut: get barbs, kill one.

Turn 2 - 770 AD
Cities with Banks (our core ones) start building units to disband in corrupt cities. This prevents us from going over the unit limits.

Turn 3 - 780 AD
Some AIs learn Music Theory and Democracy ... we don't need those.

Turn 6 - 810 AD
We have a settler ready to claim the saltpeter...

IBT: India and Rome sign peace.

Turn 7 - 820 AD
Build a city one tile from saltpeter ... we need to bring some workers over!

IBT: Then this: French declare war.

Turn 8 - 830 AD
There's about 25 French units in or near our borders.

Turn 9 - 840 AD
I'm going to stop here. I'm not sure whether we should sign alliances or not, because can we really afford to be at war for 20 turns? We have 5000+ gold - let's use some of it on upgrades and rushes.

1) No standing army that exceeds the unit support levels (workers and settlers included) except during wartime. When the war is over excess troops must be demobilized in a convenient town until unit support drops to zero. Restriction is lifted in Democratic government.

Got it. Will play Sunday night, and unless I hear differently, will go for Democracy.

Restriction is also lifted in war. As long as we're in war, stay in Republic. :)

Why does everyone avoid Demo? - I kinda like it.

Democracy may actually have its uses in this game. The other continent is a long ways off so war over there wulol be long haul until naval transports and flight. And the WW is manageable if we don't plan on fighting long overseas wars or do any self research unless for stuff that fits our needs.

But I would definitely wait for the end of the French War. The gloves are off so make her pay!!!

I usually Avoid Demo because I don't want to research Demo when I could be going for Steam. But in this game, Demo is very appealing.

:bump: .......

I had a feeling I was up...

But it looks like I'm not.

I'm supposed to be up... but. I'm going to need to ask for an indefinite skip. Greatly enjoyed playing with y'all, but RL calls, and I'd better answer. I'll continue to lurk here and there, but will leave things in Bede's capable hands.

Got it, then.

I had a feeling I was up...

But it looks like I'm not.
I'm supposed to be up... but. I'm going to need to ask for an indefinite skip. Greatly enjoyed playing with y'all, but RL calls, and I'd better answer. I'll continue to lurk here and there, but will leave things in Bede's capable hands.

That was freaky ... Tomoyo, can you predict the future? ;)

No, but my peach yogurt did not give us good signs, and I played two turns.

We lost Cirta. :(

:sad: Ouch. And getting it back will be ugly with those French Musketeers. They ain't candy bars!

I think we should be more concerned with the defense of our other cities, no? ;)

Okay, I think we may be screwed... I only played five turns because I'm afraid that I'll mess it up even more.

840AD (0): Oh my god. That's a lot of French units. In Joanie wanted to, Hippo is totally toast.

Scrap some Uni builds for knights. Rush some troops.

Hippo was working an unroaded mountain, which breaks the variant, but it was probably because of French Fries.

I then let my hand approach the enter key. Look at the TV. Go get something to eat. I'm hungry.

I get a peach yogurt. I wonder how this can foreshadow anything.

Take one spoonful and hit enter.

IT: All cities hold. Lose one NuMe.

Carthage: MDI --> Musket
Utica: Bank --> Musket
Hippo: Musket --> Musket
Sabratha: Knight --> Trebuchet
Oea: Knight --> Rax

850AD (1): Kill a knight. Lose a knight. Move troops around. Move most troops to the front. Rush some more troops. Wish I could hire some Mercenaries. (That'd be so appropriate)

Enter. *gulp*

IT: Cirta falls and is razed! :cry:

Carthage: Musket --> Musket
Nora: Musket --> Musket
Utica: Barracks --> Knight
Theveste: Musket --> Musket
Hippo: Musket --> Musket
Rusicade: Musket --> Barracks
Oea: Barracks --> Musket
Hadrumetum: Bank --> Barracks

860AD (2): Rush more stuff.

IT: We get pillaged. A lot. Good thing our saltpeter is under a city.

Carthage: Musket --> Musket
Utica: Musket --> Musket
Theveste: Musket --> Musket
Hippo: Musket --> Musket
Rusicade: Barracks --> Musket
Oea: Musket --> Musket

870AD (3): French are at the gates of Rusicade and Leptis Magna. One of these wil definately fall, so I fortify Leptis Magna more, but leaving some troops in Rusicade to try and get some kills.

More rushing. We're running out of gold.

IT: Indians and French sign against us! :eek:

Sulcis falls! :sad:

Rusicade falls!

Nora: Barracks --> Musket
Theveste: Musket --> Musket
Hippo: Musket --> Musket
Oea: Musket --> Musket
Hadrumetum: Barracks --> Musket

880AD (4): More repositioning and such. Not much rushing.

890AD (5): Finally get a chance to counterattack a bit. Kill the eastern Muskets.

Note: WW has hit! I set the cities for not rioting, but I may have missed some.

If ever we needed a flip...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_890AD.jpg (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede05_890AD.SAV)

EDIT: Huh? Is the upload broken?

Upload works for me...I wonder what the flip risk for Ruiscade is.

Doh, I had accidentally clicked "block images from this server" when I wanted to "Copy Image Location". :wallbash:

Uff da. Dis is not good, Ole. Engl;and should be a part of this, don't you think? Makes a much better target than the peaceful Phonecian traders.

Roaster Rota:
Cuivienen - up
Bede - on deck
GingerAle
Bezhukov - resigned
Tomoyo - did something nasty with peach (?) yogurt

:bump:

Roaster Rota:
Bede - up and got it. play tomorrow
GingerAle
Bezhukov - resigned
Tomoyo - did something nasty with peach (?) yogurt
Cuivienen - skipped

Why the (?) after the peach, nyo?

Should we get a replacement player or is this good, nyo?

I prefer plain myself with some granola and maybe a little honey.

Will see how it goes, we may not be needing any replacements............

It is 1000AD and the French are crushing us. The roads are all gone, cities are in disorder and not enough income to keep them happy.

When the French cavalry showed up I knew it was over....

An alliance with Lizzie took the heat off the cities for a couple of turns but the marching Musketeers just laid waste to everything.

We may just may be able to survive until the end of the alliance with England but there won't be much left even if we do.

So Bede05 is officially over. :sad:

Damnit. I bet I'm the only person ever to have 3-3 SG record.

I'm 2 - 3 ... also Vanilla Demigod is underway, that is a very close one to the wire.

Any plans for Bede6?

I'll probably set up a remake of this one tomorrow.

In retrospect, may have been better to war on Joan with English help than verse visa. Hindsight and all that. Fun variant nonetheless, especially entertaining team. :D Once the sun goes away (say November), I'd be interested in taking another spin.