View Full Version : Frederick II of Prussia leaderhead (3d-era-anim)


CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 28, 2005, 07:55 PM
Civilization: Prussia
Bonuses: Militaristic and Industrious
Title and leader: Kaiser Frederick II
Best/shunned government: Monarchy and Fascism (Despotism)
Aggression: 05 (too high)
Cultural group: European
Noun: Prussians
Adjective: Prussian
Colors: Black (Zulu) and Grey (Indians)
UU: Hessian Mercenary
Civilopedia entry: RACE_PRUSSIA

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Prussia012.jpg

Cities:
Königsberg
Potsdam
Brandenburg
Berlin
Konigsberg
Frankfurt
Cologne
Hannover
Bonn
Dortmund
Magdeburg
Torun
Gumbinnen
Goldap
Osterode
Kreuzburg
Insterburg
Feste Friedrich III
Friedland
Gross Karpowen
Gross Warningken
Gross Tromnau
Hohenstein
Lotzen
Memel
Nemmersdorf
Neukirch
Preussisch Eylau
Preussisch Holland
Almenhausen
Allenburg
Allenstein
Liebstadt
Rastenburg
Tilsit
Stalluponen
Gross Friedrichberg
Gross Leistenau
Danziger Haupt
Deutsch Krone
Ebensee
Elbing
Feste Konig Wilhelm I
Hammerstein
Gross Wittenberg
Lobau
Mariensee
Neustadt
Preussisch Stargard
Gross Lunau
Thorn
Marienwerder

Military leaders:
von Blucher
Gneisenau
von Scharnhorst
von Bülow
Kleist

Scientific ones:
Max Planck
Heinrich Hertz
Johannes Kepler
Hans Geiger
Fritz Haber

Civilopedia:
I found it in Firaxis Napoleon Europe scenario
^The rise of Prussia as a European power during the 18th century took many by surprise. Under the noble
statesmanship of the “Great Elector” Frederick William, and military headsman Frederick the Great, Prussia
expanded its holdings to include not only Berlin and a province east of Danzig, but Silesia which it wrested
from Austria; Pomerania from the Swedes; and a choice strip of land from the Poles that connected East Prussia
to Brandenburg. They also acquired Cleves-Geldres of the lower Rhine, Emden, Mark, and two duchies in southern
Germany. Yet, despite these territorial gains, Prussia remained a relatively poor nation, whose resources were primarily dedicated to the betterment of its army.
^
^ During the French Revolution, Prussia tried to remain noncommittal. But by 1806, having lost much of its
territories to a relentless Napoleon and his unwavering Imperial Guard, Prussia entered the Fourth Coalition
and never looked back. Some badly needed military reforms helped bolster its power, and in 1815, the new
Prussian army (under the enigmatic leadership of Gebhard von Blucher) helped the British bring a final
end to Napoleon’s reign.

Hessian Mercenary, the UU:
Replaces Musketman, has two extra defensive points and cost 10 shields more.

Corn Shucker
Mar 28, 2005, 09:28 PM
I like it alot so far! Its very iron that you chose to do the Prussians, I was just about to request to have someone make Frederick II lol! Awesome!

It looks like you've already chosen the Teutonic Knight for the UU... but if you decided to change... the Hessian Mercenary would be an awesome UU to use! I've always wanted a Hessian Merc. and also, since we discovered that you can trade military units (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=114603&page=1&pp=20) i think it work well for that as well should someone choose to use it that way. Heres some pictures of it:

http://www.jsha.org/schwalm.gif

(Guy on Right below)
http://newdeal.feri.org/images/f87b.gif

Thanks for makeing this awesome LH!!!!

TopGun
Mar 28, 2005, 10:02 PM
good start... thus far. I've always wanted King Friedrich II der Grosse for the Germans/Prussians... even though I like Bismarck alot. Keep it up!

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 29, 2005, 12:03 AM
I did the other eras, images in post number 01.
@Corn Shucker, I can make the change of UU ;) if someone has another suggestion or support Teutonic Knight or Hessian Merc, please, post :)

Ares de Borg
Mar 29, 2005, 04:15 AM
I guess this is the discussion thread since there is no download. May I make a few suggestions, please?

Ancient:
I think his face should't be painted. The Germans mostly did not do so, that's more the job of the celts.

Medieval:
I think I'd prefer to see him either in chain mail (since this was the common armor) or in representative clothing.

Industrial:
Here is a picture of the "Alter Fritz".
http://www.marlesreuth.de/pers_friedrich2_alter_fritz.jpg

As you can see, he is very thin, has a dominant nose and big eyes. His "hair" is white.

Modern:
I don't like the green uniform, this makes him look like a south american guerillero. I`d prefer either a normal "business look" like a normal statesman or a general's uniform, like this:

http://www.defmin.fi/chapter_images/2113_gi_schneiderhan.jpg

Ok, that's my five cents. Otherwise, you do great work! Keep on!

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 29, 2005, 08:02 AM
@Ares de Borgs, thanks, u gave me cool tips :) I removed the face paint in ancient era and change the uniform of the modern one, check the new view in 1st post ;) I have to change his hair color in the industrial era, but I have founded problems with his hair color in this era and can't turn it non-yellowish :( I continue trying. For the other eras I think it is good how they r now.
BTW, I used another reference to make this LH, in this pic he looks like yonger and less thin

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/photodraw/portraits/frederick2.jpg


-------------------------
@friends: I need a bigger city list, anyone how can help me? This one that I have I found in Firaxis scenario about Napoleon.

HolyEmperor
Mar 29, 2005, 08:30 AM
Maybe that mercenary is better... There are too many units that are alternative to knight already... But the mercenary will be alternative for what? Rifleman? Infantry?

Hrafnkell
Mar 29, 2005, 08:48 AM
I love the changes, CivArmy. Ares gave good advice on the LH. I'm less sure of the Hessian mercs (which as an American I associate more with British hirelings during the War for American Independence, but I have nothing to offer as an alternative.

Kyriakos
Mar 29, 2005, 09:15 AM
I like it alot so far! Its very iron that you chose to do the Prussians, I was just about to request to have someone make Frederick II lol! Awesome!


That isnt ironic, it is just a coincidence. It would have been ironic if you were about to start a thread requesting that absolutely no one makes a frederic II lh ever, and then you saw this thread about the making of that lh :)

"and isnt it ironic, dont you think" :lol:

JuuL
Mar 29, 2005, 09:24 AM
I think the Hessian Mercenary is a good idea. Superior infantry was the reasan for the Prussian victory over Denmark in 1864.... maybe they should have better attack instead of better defense...

Plotinus
Mar 29, 2005, 10:03 AM
That isnt ironic, it is just a coincidence. It would have been ironic if you were about to start a thread requesting that absolutely no one makes a frederic II lh ever, and then you saw this thread about the making of that lh :)

"and isnt it ironic, dont you think" :lol:

No, that would still be just a coincidence. It would be ironic if Civ Army had said "I will never make a Frederick II leaderhead!" whilst manifestly doing so. Irony means saying one thing in order to imply the opposite, not unfortunate coincidence - that's why Alanis Morissette needs to be shot. Well, one reason, anyway.

And I think this is a great-looking LH. There aren't enough seventeenth- and eighteenth-century leaders about, in my view - most of the "Industrial Age" era of the LHs put them in Victorian clothes.

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 29, 2005, 10:16 AM
First of all, thanks for all the comments fellows! The Hessian Mercenary looks like to be the best option for UU and I think the best unit that must be replaced is Rifleman, in spite of it is too advanced for this Hessian Mercenary. Bad that Firaxis didn't put a unit between the Musketeer and Rifleman in this evolution line :( I think the best power to this UU is has an extra deffensive point, cos this unit is used to defensive strategies and I think one extra offensive point could be less usefull ;)

EDITED: was this unit done by some creator yet? I think Firaxis did a similar one in Conquests, but I can't choice this unit cos it could be not used in Vanilla and PTW.

Corn Shucker
Mar 29, 2005, 10:31 AM
Forgive me for mixing up Irony with coincidence :p.

I like what you've done with the Ancient and Modern ages! Very nice, i think it fits in nicely.

I think that the best use for the Hessian Merc. would be to replace the Musketman. The Musketeer (the french replacemen) was used from the mid 1600's to around the early/mid 1700's. The Hessian was also used around this time period, arriving in the late 1600's/early 1700's (edcuated guess) the Hessian mercenary was used by the prussians up and through the American Revolutionary War. I think the best use that we can get of of the Hessian Mercenary is A Musketman replacement with with an extra attack point (A3 D4 M1).

Lookin good CivArmy! keep up the good work!

Ares de Borg
Mar 29, 2005, 10:37 AM
Very good update, thank you!

I still like Fritz better when he was older. The "young Fritz" photo somewhat irritates me.:)

I tried to make Fritz somewhat thinner (10%) myself, enlarged his eyes by 10% and added some wrinkles.

What do you think?

http://www.furor-normannicus.de/images/kram/fritz.jpg

Corn Shucker
Mar 29, 2005, 10:38 AM
Lol I didnt notice that you posted your opinions on the usage of the Hessian Mercenary until i already posted mine lol. Anyway, It would work either way, whatever you want to do. I was just trying to come up with what I though was the best. The rifleman replacement with an extra defence would be fine! :D

I've looked pretty well throughout the forums and haven't found this unit, don't think anyone's tryed makeing it. The one firax did in conquests-I think you're refering to one of the units in the Napolionic Europe Conquest-It's uniform somewhat similar, but none of the hats are relatively close to the Hessian Merc's hat (which is most of the time what was most well know about the soldier).

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 29, 2005, 11:19 AM
Very good update, thank you!

I still like Fritz better when he was older. The "young Fritz" photo somewhat irritates me.:)

I tried to make Fritz somewhat thinner (10%) myself, enlarged his eyes by 10% and added some wrinkles.

What do you think?

http://www.furor-normannicus.de/images/kram/fritz.jpg


I think the changes will not change so much the LH and it could take time and other complications for the animation (in some frames the face could deform to the old form, it happened with me in the past and I'd export all the frames again, a process that takes hours). BTW, the image of your post is storaged in a site that I didn't know, I'm glad non civ players r also enjoying the creations :)


@Corn Shucker: After I read your last two posts I decide change the replaced unit, now it will be Musketman and no more Rifleman. But I'll put the power "2+ deffensive and cost 10 shields more", cos this unit is used for defese, so, more offensive power is not so usefull and the power "1+ defese" is already used by the French UU.

JuuL
Mar 29, 2005, 11:23 AM
Bad that Firaxis didn't put a unit between the Musketeer and Rifleman in this evolution line :(

Why should that stop you? The Hessian Mercenary could require Military Tradition... there is some empty space in that tech anyway (only gives two things, there is space for a third).

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 29, 2005, 11:29 AM
Why should that stop you? The Hessian Mercenary could require Military Tradition... there is some empty space in that tech anyway (only gives two things, there is space for a third).

I don't like break the rules as the units evolution line when I'm doing a new civ :) I just break the rules when I do a scenario ou mods, there I add new units and change the evolution line, cos I think the Firaxis one could be a bit different. I know many people play civ with costumized unit lines, them people can add the Prussians and add the UU in the correct place ;)

Corn Shucker
Mar 29, 2005, 11:31 AM
That sounds good CivArmy- Also with the increased shields, that will make them worth more for those who choose to make them mercenaries. I think that sounds like a good idea. And because Prussia was know for their advanced military techniques and equipment, it would make sense that they would have +2 Defense. I noted that the French Musketeer had a +1 defence advantage too, but I didn't think further than that lol.

Kyriakos
Mar 29, 2005, 12:16 PM
Hm, actually this is wrong, Plotinus. If he has claimed that he would never make a said lh, and then went on to make it, that would just be a change of decision. An example of irony is certainly the one i gave, and i am sure of it.
However: if he had claimed that he would never make a said lh, and you were basing something on his view, and were happy that he would never make that lh( for example because you so hated someone who would want that lh made) and THEN he decided to make it, that would be again ironic. In irony it is crucial that what has happened means something AGAINST someone.

On second thought:

I was thiking of the notion of "irony of luck", which is what i said.
But, it is true, irony can just be about saying something and really meaning the opossite (brief moment of less than perfect access to the info in my brain there :lol: ). A good english example of (common) irony is the ussual english expression "brilliant", which can be meant as "stupid" etc.
"Irony of luck" is a very common notion in greek ;)

It makes sense too, if luck is defined as the sum of the actions of everyone else apart from you, together with the effects of your general environment, then it is ironic that those others+environment (=luck) appear to be something, but are really the opossite at the given time that irony of luck takes place ;)

Hrafnkell
Mar 29, 2005, 12:19 PM
Ares, you gave Freddie a skin disease of some kind!

Thorgrimm
Mar 29, 2005, 01:11 PM
Civ's Army, here is a quick list of Prussian cities from the states of east and west Prussia, I hope it helps. :)

One note, I can't put in the German accents so this is the best I could do.

OP = Ost Preussen (East Prussia) WP = West Preussen (West Prussia


Magdeburg OP
Torun OP
Gumbinnen OP
Goldap OP
Osterode OP
Kreuzburg OP
Insterburg OP
Feste Friedrich III OP
Friedland OP
Gross Karpowen OP
Gross Warningken OP
Gross Tromnau OP
Hohenstein OP
Lotzen OP
Memel OP
Nemmersdorf OP
Neukirch OP
Preussisch Eylau OP
Preussisch Holland OP
Almenhausen OP
Allenburg OP
Allenstein OP
Liebstadt OP
Rastenburg OP
Tilsit OP
Stalluponen OP
Gross Friedrichsdorf OP
Gross Friedrichberg OP and WP
Gross Leistenau OP
Danziger Haupt WP
Deutsch Krone WP
Ebensee WP
Elbing WP
Feste Konig Wilhelm I WP
Hammerstein WP
Gross Wittenberg WP
Lobau WP
Mariensee WP
Neustadt WP
Preussisch Stargard WP
Gross Lunau WP
Thorn WP
Marienwerder WP

:nuke: Cheers Thorgrimm :nuke:

ArbitraryGuy
Mar 29, 2005, 01:57 PM
Awesome leaderhead, CivArmy! One of my favorites.

I don't mean to be critical or anything, but is it possible to get the crest on his jacket in the Industrial Era (but, it's probably too low, huh?)

Anyways, thanks a billion.

Corn Shucker
Mar 29, 2005, 02:51 PM
A crest would look really cool, but I don't see how you could put it on the uniform he's wearing, it woul dbe a bit lower like arbitrary said. I donno, If you think you could put it in and still have him look awesome thats a good idea :D but I'm sure he'll be fine w/o it.

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 29, 2005, 03:01 PM
@Thorgrimm: thanks very much for the city list :goodjob:

@ArbitraryGuy and @Corn Shucker: I think there is no space for a crest in the industrial era uniform :( The correct place would be next of his heart, this region doesn't appear in the LH.

Aluminium
Mar 29, 2005, 04:28 PM
CivArmy, the bold marked cities were never prussian.

Berlin
Leipzig
Hamburg
Konigsberg
Frankfurt
Munich
Heidelburg
Nuremberg
Cologne
Hannover
Bremen
Stuttgart
Bonn
Salzburg
Dortmund
Brandenburg
Magdeburg

I'd say these four at the top:

Königsberg
Potsdam
Brandenburg
Berlin

As UU I prefer the 1860's rifleman, simply called 'Schütze'.

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 29, 2005, 05:15 PM
CivArmy, the bold marked cities were never prussian.

Berlin
Leipzig
Hamburg
Konigsberg
Frankfurt
Munich
Heidelburg
Nuremberg
Cologne
Hannover
Bremen
Stuttgart
Bonn
Salzburg
Dortmund
Brandenburg
Magdeburg

I'd say these four at the top:

Königsberg
Potsdam
Brandenburg
Berlin

As UU I prefer the 1860's rifleman, simply called 'Schütze'.

Thanks for the corrections in the city list :) Schütze and Hassan Mercenary r sinonimus or different units?

---------------------------
@all: I'm going to check the units forum right now to see the Prussian units available.

Aluminium
Mar 29, 2005, 05:44 PM
They are different of course. The Schütze would be a Rifleman replacement. I'm not sure whether the Prussians have ever used Hessian Mercenaries. Generally they had a standing army. The independence of mercenary troops was the power of Prussia. :)

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 29, 2005, 06:57 PM
I decided change the UU, now it is the Schütze. I looked for this unit in the libraries and didn't find, so, I can try do one myself. If it was already done I appreciate know the link of the unit.
I also have googled "Schütze" and found too many different images, if someone has the image of the Schütze soldier, I appreciate a image or link ;)

TopGun
Mar 29, 2005, 08:35 PM
These guys were German/Prussian guerilla troops during the napoleonic wars.

Adler17
Mar 30, 2005, 01:10 AM
Hessen Mercenaries????? No way!!!! Hessen was independent from Prussia. Although they were outstanding soldiers in the American revolution they were IMO not of the class of the Prussian soldiers. As UU you can take Schütze of 1864/ 66/ 70/ 71 or the Lützowsches Freikorps of 1813 or the Prussian infantry of the Friederician Army. The teutonic knight is also a possibility. But not the Hessen mercenary.
Also making Frederic looking like Hitler is in no way justifiable. Hitler was an anti Prussian. He was in no way a member of the tolerant, enlighted Prussia. He was an Austrian. It is symbolic that none of his elite divisions were called after Prussians...
Prussian cities:

Berlin (capital)

Province Ostpreußen (East Prussia):
Königsberg (capital)
Gumbinnen
Allenstein
Trakehenen
Tilsit
Pillau
Tharau
Deutsch- Eylau
Preußisch- Eylau
Insterburg
Rastenburg, Lötzen
Lyck
Ortelsburg
Osterode
Elbing
Angerburg
Suleyken

Province Westpreußen:
Danzig
Schneidemühl
Gdingen
Thorn
Hela
Neufahrwasser
Dirschau
Konitz
Kulm
Marienburg
Marienwerder
Graudenz
Bromberg
Deutsch Krone

Province Pommern
Stettin
Stolp
Lauenburg in Hinterpommern
Kolberg
Köslin
Stolpmünde
Neustettin
Belgard (no not a Belgrad!)
Arnswalde
Pyritz
Pölitz
Swinemünde
Eggesin
Ueckermünde
Anklam
Greifswald
Stralsund
Putbus
Bergen auf Rügen
Neubrandenburg
Pasewalk
Pyritz
Stargard

Province Schlesien
Breslau (capital)
Glogau
Brieg
Oppeln
Gleiwtz
Neisse
Hindenburg
Beuthen
Ratibor
Strehlen
Liegnitz
Haynau
Bunzlau
Hirschberg
Waldenburg
Langenbielau
Frankenstein :groucho:
Hirschberg
Sagan
Sprottau
Görlitz
Weißwasser
Niesky
Hoyerswerder

Provinces Sachsen and Anhalt:
Magdeburg
Halle
Halberstadt
Oschersleben
Staßfurt
Calbe
Dessau
Zerbst
Stendal
Tangermünde
Roßlau
Wittenberg
Torgau
Bitterfeld

Province Brandenburg
Potsdam (capital)
Brandenburg
Cottbus
Fürstenwalde
Luckenwalde
Jüterbog
Nauen
Oranienburg
Rathenow
Henningsdorf
Strausberg
Küstrin
Frankfurt an der Oder
Wittenberge
Neuruppin
Zehdenick
Eberswalde
Angermünde
Landsberg
Neustrelitz

Province Schleswig- Holstein
Kiel (capital)
Lübeck
Bad Oldesloe
Flensburg
Rendsburg
Eckernförde
Husum
Büsum
Westerland
Ahrensburg
Altona
Itzehoe
Glückstadt
Rahlstedt
Bergedorf
Trittau
Geesthacht
Itzehoe
Brunsbüttel
Kappeln
Ratzeburg
Möln
Sonderburg
Appenrade
Tondern
Pinneberg

I will post the names of towns and cities of the provinces Hannover and Rhineland later.

Adler

Arne
Mar 30, 2005, 02:29 AM
Very cool LH! I like him a lot, (may be exept the last age... but I think this is, what I never will need to use, so all is fine to me.)

For the idea from Ares de Borg, making Friedrich looking older... I would suggest changing the hair colour from blond to white/light gray will make him looking little more older and agin little more like a 18th cent. leader. Not sure if this is still possible, but it seems like an easy way to go.

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 30, 2005, 08:48 AM
Very cool LH! I like him a lot, (may be exept the last age... but I think this is, what I never will need to use, so all is fine to me.)

For the idea from Ares de Borg, making Friedrich looking older... I would suggest changing the hair colour from blond to white/light gray will make him looking little more older and agin little more like a 18th cent. leader. Not sure if this is still possible, but it seems like an easy way to go.

For hair I can't change the color :( , I think it is a characteristic of the prop being yellow and I don't have another prop to replace this one. I'll try make the changes in the LH (older face, wider eyes...), but I don't promiss nothing, cos the leaderhead could present problems when I deform it in this stage. I'll use the last tips of Ares of Borg to do these changes :)

Hessen Mercenaries????? No way!!!! Hessen was independent from Prussia. Although they were outstanding soldiers in the American revolution they were IMO not of the class of the Prussian soldiers. As UU you can take Schütze of 1864/ 66/ 70/ 71 or the Lützowsches Freikorps of 1813 or the Prussian infantry of the Friederician Army. The teutonic knight is also a possibility. But not the Hessen mercenary.
Also making Frederic looking like Hitler is in no way justifiable. Hitler was an anti Prussian. He was in no way a member of the tolerant, enlighted Prussia. He was an Austrian. It is symbolic that none of his elite divisions were called after Prussians...
Prussian cities:

Berlin (capital)

Province Ostpreußen (East Prussia):
Königsberg (capital)
Gumbinnen
.
.
.
Pinneberg

I will post the names of towns and cities of the provinces Hannover and Rhineland later.

Adler

Thanks for the bigger city list, I'll use it in the order that u suggested. It was not my wish the modern era looks like Hitler, the uniform and the hair do that, I used like reference the image of a uniform and hair of a militar on one of the first posts.


These guys were German/Prussian guerilla troops during the napoleonic wars.

Thanks for the image reference! :) But I think they r not the Schütze, I think the weapons of this unit r less advanced then the Schütze ones and maybe the uniform has other differences :(

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 30, 2005, 08:58 AM
The city list is:

Berlin
Königsberg
Gumbinnen
Danzig
Stettin
Breslau
Magdeburg
Potsdam
Kiel
Allenstein
Trakehenen
Tilsit
Pillau
Tharau
Deutsch- Eylau
Preußisch- Eylau
Insterburg
Rastenburg, Lötzen
Lyck
Ortelsburg
Osterode
Elbing
Angerburg
Suleyken
Schneidemühl
Gdingen
Thorn
Hela
Neufahrwasser
Dirschau
Konitz
Kulm
Marienburg
Marienwerder
Graudenz
Bromberg
Deutsch Krone
Stolp
Lauenburg in Hinterpommern
Kolberg
Köslin
Stolpmünde
Neustettin
Belgard
Arnswalde
Pyritz
Pölitz
Swinemünde
Eggesin
Ueckermünde
Anklam
Greifswald
Stralsund
Putbus
Bergen auf Rügen
Neubrandenburg
Pasewalk
Pyritz
Stargard
Glogau
Brieg
Oppeln
Gleiwtz
Neisse
Hindenburg
Beuthen
Ratibor
Strehlen
Liegnitz
Haynau
Bunzlau
Hirschberg
Waldenburg
Langenbielau
Frankenstein
Hirschberg
Sagan
Sprottau
Görlitz
Weißwasser
Niesky
Hoyerswerder
Halle
Halberstadt
Oschersleben
Staßfurt
Calbe
Dessau
Zerbst
Stendal
Tangermünde
Roßlau
Wittenberg
Torgau
Bitterfeld
Brandenburg
Cottbus
Fürstenwalde
Luckenwalde
Jüterbog
Nauen
Oranienburg
Rathenow
Henningsdorf
Strausberg
Küstrin
Frankfurt an der Oder
Wittenberge
Neuruppin
Zehdenick
Eberswalde
Angermünde
Landsberg
Neustrelitz
Lübeck
Bad Oldesloe
Flensburg
Rendsburg
Eckernförde
Husum
Büsum
Westerland
Ahrensburg
Altona
Itzehoe
Glückstadt
Rahlstedt
Bergedorf
Trittau
Geesthacht
Itzehoe
Brunsbüttel
Kappeln
Ratzeburg
Möln
Sonderburg
Appenrade
Tondern
Pinneberg

Any change suggested?

TopGun
Mar 30, 2005, 08:58 AM
Thanks for the image reference! :) But I think they r not the Schütze, I think the weapons of this unit r less advanced then the Schütze ones and maybe the uniform has other differences :(

I know they are not the "Schützen" you had in mind, they are an alternate suggestion which I think fit Prussia very well. They are, after all, an expression of an often overlooked trait in Prussian character: the will to stand up and fight for nothing but their freedom. The Lützowsche Freikorps members were idealists... young college students who volunteered to liberate their homeland from foreign occupation.

As far as their weapons go, they used flintlock muskets, not repeating rifles and as such they would upgrade to Riflemen.

TopGun
Mar 30, 2005, 09:23 AM
Even though I think the Hessian Mercenaries are a good unit to have... I don't think they are Prussian at all! Plus, if you look at Stephs's conversions, there is a unit that looks very much like them already.

Adler17
Mar 30, 2005, 10:51 AM
Province Hannover:
Hannover (capital)
Celle
Hildesheim
Leer
Wilhelmshaven
Hameln
Bad Pyrmont
Meppen
Lingen
Delmenhorst
Emden
Aurich
Kleve

Province Rheinland
Köln
Düsseldorf
Münster
Dortmund
Gütersloh
Bocholt
Aachen
Recklinghausen
Mönchen- Gladbach
Krefeld
Duisburg
Aachen
Neuß
Remscheid
Gelsenkirchen
Essen
Solingen
Hagen
Lüdenscheid
Oberhausen
Rheydt
Bonn
Jülich
Gladbeck
Geldern
Geilenkirchen
Koblenz
Neuwied
Trier
Dillingen
Sulzbach
Saarbrücken
Saarlouis
Neunkirchen
Völklingen

Adler

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 30, 2005, 11:14 AM
Even though I think the Hessian Mercenaries are a good unit to have... I don't think they are Prussian at all! Plus, if you look at Stephs's conversions, there is a unit that looks very much like them already.

I'll check the Steph convertions ;)

@Adler17: thanks for the additional cities :)

@all: I tried to do the alterations and the result was not good, when I turn the LH older the flesh and skin in his face grows up and turn the LH less look like the real Frederick. Other problem is I have to do many other commands to correct it and I'd have to do that 12 repeated times (3 times per era). For this reason I'll not change the LH.

Aluminium
Mar 30, 2005, 11:28 AM
I have scanned some images of Prussian infantrymen. However I couldn't find a good pic of the 1860's soldiers yet. The 'Lützower Jäger' would be a good UU too. Perhaps you should make a poll. :)

Musketeers:
http://img185.exs.cx/img185/7214/prussianmusketeers8wy.th.jpg (http://img185.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img185&image=prussianmusketeers8wy.jpg)

Fusiliers:
http://img115.exs.cx/img115/1198/prussianfusiliers2zc.th.jpg (http://img115.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img115&image=prussianfusiliers2zc.jpg)

Grenadiers:
http://img109.exs.cx/img109/671/prussiangrenadiers9gu.th.jpg (http://img109.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img109&image=prussiangrenadiers9gu.jpg)

Riflemen:
http://img106.exs.cx/img106/299/prussianriflemen3bz.th.jpg (http://img106.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img106&image=prussianriflemen3bz.jpg)

Landwehr:
http://img106.exs.cx/img106/6083/prussianlandwehr9nq.th.jpg (http://img106.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img106&image=prussianlandwehr9nq.jpg)

Mithadan
Mar 30, 2005, 01:31 PM
Your leaderheads get better all the time, CivArmy!

Hey Adler17, what's the code for the SZ (double S) letter? I can do all the umlauts etc. by typing Alt+###, but I don't know how to get that fun letter.

Aluminium
Mar 30, 2005, 02:13 PM
ALT+225, but you can write it as 'ss' like the Swiss.

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 30, 2005, 03:17 PM
@Alluminiun: cool images! Now we have many options to choice the Prussian UU, let's do that, I appreciate if people continue posting to suggest about the favourite UU for this civ how they r doing, now we have more images and more options maybe more people would like to express then opinion too :)
I'm exporting the Haida and Tupi female leaders leaderheads right now, the next one would be Frederick, but since we have a point to discuss I won't export Frederick yet. When I mean exporting I mean exporting the files to the format of Civilization 3, a process that takes hours and hours.

Mithadan
Mar 30, 2005, 05:11 PM
ALT+225, but you can write it as 'ss' like the Swiss.Thanks! Ach, those Swiß, 'ss' just ain't as cool lookin'! ;)

Bjornlo
Mar 30, 2005, 05:11 PM
CivArmy,
I'm sure you're right about the rendering difficulty with the facial animations.
But, I think Ares de Borg's take has some promise. I prefer the look of this.
Even with the larger eyes, they are still on the small side. Your original eyes seem very small. The face seems typical for a german/scandinavian face.. but I think Are's edits to your face made it more interesting.

Corn Shucker
Mar 30, 2005, 08:42 PM
WHAT?! I'm gone for a day and everything changes :(

Now to clear up some confusion. The Hessian Mercenary was Prussian. They originated in the Prussian state of Hesse, but as time went on, many Prussian mercenaries were called Hessian Mercenaries. Just because they were Mercenaries doesn't mean they shouldn't be the UU. There two other mercenary UU's in the game, and that shouldn't matter anyway. I've never heard of the Schütze in my life. :hmm: In my experience the Hessian Mercenary is more commonly known (but obviously not everyone not going to know what they are...) because the English hired them from Prussia to fight in the Revolutionary War. I did see the units in steph's Cossack’s conversions. I'm assuming that you’re talking about the grenadier (that’s the only unit that i can imagine coming close to the Hessian Mercenary). Ok, first of all, it’s a conversion, so naturally its not going to be as good as the rest of the units in the game or the forums. Second, it doesn't really even look like he's shooting a gun; it looks like he's trying to stick someone with his bayonet. It really needs a lot more of a kick and some smoke to make it look like its being fired. And third, and most importantly, its not the Hessian Mercenary! Now ultimately it’s up to CivArmy to decide, but my votes still with the Hessian Mercenary.

Ares de Borg
Mar 30, 2005, 09:10 PM
They originated in the Prussian state of Hesse

Actually, it's "Hessen". ;-)

Corn Shucker
Mar 30, 2005, 09:19 PM
No, its Hesse:



Hes·sian


noun (plural Hes·sians)

1. peoples somebody from Hesse: somebody who lives in or was born or raised in the central German state of Hesse


2. military German mercenary soldier: a German mercenary soldier, especially one from the kingdom of Hesse, who fought for the British army during the American Revolution or the Napoleonic Wars


3. military mercenary: any mercenary soldier




adjective

of Hesse: relating to Hesse, or its people or culture

But, I have seen it refered to as Hessen, mabey either way is acceptable?

TopGun
Mar 30, 2005, 09:45 PM
Well..in German, it's "Hessen"! And if you'd ask any Hessian, he'd tell you they were OCCUPIED by Prussia. They were never part of Prussia Proper which encompassed the provinces of Brandenburg, Ostpreussen, Westpreussen and Altmark.

That's why the Hessian Mercenary is a poor choice for the Prussian UU. If anything, you'd have to pick the Lange Kerls Guard Grenadiers... if you wanted something from that era.

Hey.. Dan.. let's just take a poll: Lützowsches Freikorps, Hessian Mercenary, Lange Kerls or Schütze...

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 30, 2005, 09:48 PM
since we have more options of units now I suggest people continue the process of voting and debate, in the final I decide the winner UU ;)
it would be great show the link of the possible units, I checked the Steph convertion untis posts, found a lot of units, but not the Prussian ones that I was looking for.

Corn Shucker
Mar 30, 2005, 10:54 PM
The question is not what a Hessian would say, but what is historically accurate. Hesse (or Hessen :)) was a german state united under Prussia. We aren't talking about "Prussia Proper," We're talking about Prussia as a whole. The Hessian Mercenary is as good a choice as any of the others IMO (...well actully a better choice IMO, or I wouldn't be so supporitve of it :p). Let me rephrase that... The Hessian Mercenary is as good a choic as any of the others in reality... Not only that, but a cooler one too!

Adler17
Mar 31, 2005, 12:33 AM
Kurhessen, Hessen was devided in several states, was occupied by Prussia in 1866 because they fought on Austrian sides. So you can add Kassel and Waldeck to the city names. But in 1866 Hessen mercenaries didn´t exist any more!
In the time of the American revolution Frederic the Great ruled Prussia. He was allied with Britain but he didn´t like his cousin very much and also because of his enlighted reign he tried to help the Americans by sending a good training officer, General von Steuben, to the colonies to make from farmers with guns real soldiers. Because he had trouble with Austria, Bavarian succession war, he couldn´t do more. After the war was over, he joined the first armed neutrality to cope with the danger of British attacks on neutral ships. In this neutrality, together with France, Sweden, Russia and Hamburg, Lübeck and Bremen Prussian ships formed convoys to defend themselves. So important goods passed the blockade. The British would have risked a war with the European powers if they had attacked the convoys. IIRC it were Hessian soldiers mostly who fought on the British side, and no Prussians.

Adler

Ares de Borg
Mar 31, 2005, 08:47 AM
Let me put it that way: Hessen is what the Germans say (like me), because it's called Hessen by the Hessen (Hessians ;-)). The Americans cannot pronounce that so they dropped a "N" on the way over the ocean. ;-)

j/k

But if you use the German term "Schützen" you should also say "Hessen".
Hessian Mercenaries would then be "Hessische Söldner".

CivArmy s. 1994
Mar 31, 2005, 11:34 AM
cool history discussion and it is cool to see we have a large number of UUs to choice, maybe it could be the theme of a future units pack ;)

HolyEmperor
Mar 31, 2005, 11:52 AM
I still think the teutonic knight a good and easy choice, since you won't have to make the unit. I'm sure now ;) that BeBro did a Teutonic Knight. Here's the link:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=66277
Another unit that you can use is the Reiter, also made by BeBro (i am starting to sound like his marketing guy :D !), to replace Cavalry. The thread is here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=86066

EDIT:
AND, there is also BeBro's Prussian Cavalry, here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=107847

Corn Shucker
Mar 31, 2005, 01:11 PM
maybe it could be the theme of a future units pack ;)

That would be totally awesome!

TopGun
Mar 31, 2005, 11:03 PM
we have a large number of UUs to choice, maybe it could be the theme of a future units pack ;)

THAT is something I can agree on!

Hrafnkell
Apr 01, 2005, 04:33 AM
Let me put it that way: Hessen is what the Germans say (like me), because it's called Hessen by the Hessen (Hessians ;-)). The Americans cannot pronounce that so they dropped a "N" on the way over the ocean. ;-)

j/k


We lost a lot of letters on our way over the ocean, Ares! I agree with you though, all joking aside, that the Hessian Mercenary is not a good choice for Prussia. I'd rather see a Prussian unit proper, of the sort that fought under Frederick. I think making a Hessian the Prussian UU would be akin to making the Cretan Archer the Roman UU. Given a choice between the two, I'd take the Teutonic Knight over the Hessian, as it was the Teutonic Knights that carved Prussia out of the wilderness. At least there is that historical connection.

My two pfennigs.

HolyEmperor
Apr 01, 2005, 08:59 AM
hahahahahahahahaha :lol:
Seu Madruga!
hahahahahahahahaha :lol:

CivArmy s. 1994
Apr 01, 2005, 09:25 AM
hahahahahahahahaha :lol:
Seu Madruga!
hahahahahahahahaha :lol:

1st April avatar :)

Well, looks like the Prussian units pack is indeed, I have to do this one someday ;)

Corn Shucker
Apr 01, 2005, 10:56 AM
Well, looks like the Prussian units pack is indeed, I have to do this one someday ;)
By someday do you mean someday soon, or someday in the distant future? :)

Mithadan
Apr 01, 2005, 12:31 PM
There's not much "distant future" about CivArmy's work habits, I wouldn't worry!

On losing the "n" in German names, might one reason for that be the fact that English is from the Low German linguistic family? I do notice the Dutch speaking people around here (Flanders) tend to drop the "n"s off the ends a lot of their words, even though the spelling clearly indicates them. For instance, "Mechelen" is often pronounced "Mechel-uh" (and pronounce that "uh" like an American, eh ;)). This is only speculation, but perhaps that's why us silly Anglophones say "Hesse" instead of the High German "Hessen"??? (By looking at my dialect map, folk in Hessen speak Rheinfränkisch, a Western Middle German dialect. Kassel seems to be at the lower limit of Low German, and, apparently, Middle German is considered Hochdeutsch. Plus, the best standard German is spoken in and around Hameln and Frankenberg, so my guess is that Hessians don't drop their "n"s! :))

CivArmy s. 1994
Apr 01, 2005, 03:33 PM
By someday do you mean someday soon, or someday in the distant future? :)

Well, I have maybe 8 civilization to be done first, the Mod of Brazil (states and regions of Brazil like real civis) and maybe after this I can do the pack ;) I don't know how many time ecxactly. BTW, I'll finish my creations to Civ3 when I start do creations to Civ4, so, I have a lot of time to create more to Civ3, including the Prussian units pack :)

CivArmy s. 1994
Apr 02, 2005, 07:05 PM
After have read the comments and have seen the pics, I choice Jäger as the Prussian UU and I'm doing the unit. Maybe we could call this unit Schützen, since I didn't see this unit yet and my unit could look like a Schützen :) If someone would like to suggest another name for this same unit, please, tell me.

Icon
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Jager01.jpg

Default
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Jager-Default.gif

Death
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Jager-Death.gif

Victory
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Jager-Victory.gif

Attack
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Jager-Attack.gif

Fortify
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Jager-Fortify.gif

Run
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Jager-Run.gif


I hope u enjoy :)

TopGun
Apr 02, 2005, 07:37 PM
Dan my friend... I ALWAYS enjoy your creations! Looking forward to that Schütze/Jäger!

Aluminium
Apr 02, 2005, 07:49 PM
wow, that is a nice generic 18c shooter too.

Could you make the attack animation without smoke? Because i can the smoke easy include afterwards. I could also do the palette if you want. :)

CivArmy s. 1994
Apr 02, 2005, 07:53 PM
wow, that is a nice generic 18c shooter too.

Could you make the attack animation without smoke? Because i can the smoke easy include afterwards. I could also do the palette if you want. :)

U mean I do the storyboard and u add the smoke and ake the pellete? Cool!
Friends, when I have the other animations I post for comments ;)

Aluminium
Apr 02, 2005, 08:03 PM
U mean I do the storyboard and u add the smoke and ake the pellete? Cool!
Sure. Smoke and palette.

HolyEmperor
Apr 02, 2005, 09:23 PM
Sure. Smoke and palette.

:wow: We're gonna get a unit done by two of the best unit creators in CFC!!!
This is gonna be good! :goodjob:

Just one thing, though... He REALLY looks like Napoleon!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

CivArmy s. 1994
Apr 02, 2005, 09:49 PM
Sure. Smoke and palette.

cool! :goodjob:


We're gonna get a unit done by two of the best unit creators in CFC!!!
This is gonna be good!

thanks man! :)

@all: in the unit post u can check the death and victory animation, now I have to sleep :sleep:

Aion
Apr 04, 2005, 09:40 AM
This is very promising work, CivArmy! :goodjob: However I have some suggestions:

About the LH:
Overall quite good :) . If you decide to do still something about his face, maybe his eyes could be bigger and his nose a little bit more prominent.

Ancient era looks really good. I like the hair, and it's a quite good generic Germanic tribal leader.
Medieval: This looks nice too, but what do you think of the idea of having him dressed as a Teutonic knight? IMHO that would look cool, and it's historically correct BTW as the Teutonic Order ruled over Prussia during the middle ages.
Industrial: Looks quite much like him. So the hair cannot be changed to white? That's a pity. Otherwise very good. Maybe the colour of the uniform and the hat could be darker? Just nit-picking, though.
Modern: Now comes the serious issue. To be honest, I don't like the modern era very much. The uniform is nice, but I don't like that Der Führer look he has. Is he supposed to represent Hitler? IMHO that's no good idea. And what's the background supposed to be?

About the UU:
Wow, very well done! :goodjob: An excellent unit. The choice of Jäger as UU is IMHO also quite good.

About the cities:
This is my suggestion for a city list. I concentrated on the Prussian mainlands of Prussia and Brandenburg, and took only major cities from the areas they annexed later. I also think Berlin should be the capitol.

Berlin
Königsberg
Potsdam
Breslau
Cologne
Danzig
Hannover
Brandenburg
Posen
Stettin
Thorn
Braunschweig
Elbing
Kassel
Dortmund
Memel
Wiesbaden
Münster
Kiel
Magdeburg
Greifswald
Erfurt
Flensburg
Bonn
Halle
Tilsit
Frankfurt
Oppeln
Stralsund
Torgau
Wittenberg
Hamm
Troppau
Swinemünde
Liegnitz
Kulm
Braunsberg
Goldap
Glogau
Allenstein
Halberstadt
Osterode
Küstrin
Wittenberge
Marienburg
Kolberg
Gumbinnen
Schönhausen
Marienwerder
Köslin
Schwedt
Rügenwalde
Glatz
Prenzlau
Cosel

As to comment on that confusing Hesse/Hessen issue: The Hessian dialect is notorious for leaving out the final n, so they themselves will pronounce the German word Hessen as 'Hesse'. :)

Finally a rather funny fact: :)
http://www.1000getraenke.de/grafik/potsdamer_rex_pils.jpg
Here you can see Frederick the Great depicted on a bottle of Rex Pils, a beer from Potsdam :beer:

CivArmy s. 1994
Apr 04, 2005, 10:04 AM
Aion, thanks for having enjoyed the LH, but the artworks were already export, r in the CFC server and I'm just waiting Thunderfall give me the links to post here to people download. So, I can't do changes right now. In this first act people can download just the *.flc files, the other ones (unit, *.pcx, texts...) r not ready yet.
Other posters alerted about the modern era is looking like Hitler, but it was not my wish, I'd like him looks like this reference

http://www.defmin.fi/chapter_images/2113_gi_schneiderhan.jpg

The hair and the uniform of IIWW make him a resemble Hitler. The background of this era the new Parlament and a modern building as that ones that r (were) under construction in Berlin :)

Aion
Apr 04, 2005, 10:22 AM
Oh, I thought you were still in the preview period :blush: Anyway, I like it already now. The other eras are very nice, I just don't like the modern one. The idea of using that reference was quite good, but it's mainly the hair that makes him look like Hitler. And maybe his angry expression, but that will look different when animated.

Corn Shucker
Apr 04, 2005, 04:23 PM
I think the UU is coming along nicely. I guess since this is probly the best fit for the UU i wont complain :D lol

I do think that he's a little stiff while falling in the death flc... mabey its just me? (im just saying what i think again, it would be absolutely fine w/o any changes to the death flc)

CivArmy s. 1994
Apr 04, 2005, 04:29 PM
I think the UU is coming along nicely. I guess since this is probly the best fit for the UU i wont complain :D lol

I do think that he's a little stiff while falling in the death flc... mabey its just me? (im just saying what i think again, it would be absolutely fine w/o any changes to the death flc)

If I use a faster speed for this animation the problem could be solved, I do that in game.

CivArmy s. 1994
Apr 04, 2005, 08:39 PM
The *flc files r available to download in http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=116054 :) Have fun! Since the unit is not ready yet, I din't put the file01 that contains UU, *.pcx files and texts.

Adler17
Apr 05, 2005, 01:22 AM
The name of the units should be Jäger, as infantry, pure infantry, is called so in Prussia/ Germany until now.

Adler