I tried one in AG16, and I was at the helm when we were sneak attacked by the Celts. I have wanted to try it again since.

All of the following copied directly from AG16, as I basically just wanted to try it again.

VARIANT RULES
-Deity OCC, with Space or Conquest as Gold medal wins, 20K culture as Silver medal win and UN as bronze medal win. UN and culture are only in this list because I expect that Conquest and Space are too difficult. But who knows...
-Standard map
-AI Aggression: normal
-Opponents: 5 random AI's.
-Rules: Standard, all standard single player victories enabled
-Barbarians: No barbarians/sedentary
-Level: Deity
-C3C 1.22
-Soft OCC: at the end of the turn we may not have more than one city. During the turn we may have as many as we want. So we are allowed to demand cities for peace and then abandon them.
-We may not build cities ourselves!
-Popped settlers have to be joined into the city.

Roster:
Kaiser_Berger
ThERat
sanabas
Beorn-eL-Feared
open
bed_head7

Sign me up. Always wanted to try one myself.

Sure thing. Glad to have you on board.

Roster:
Kaiser_Berger
open
open
open
open
bed_head7

It's a tough one, but I am in again, if you take me

Yeah, like I am going to say no to you.

Roster:
Kaiser_Berger
ThERat
open
open
open
bed_head7

I was thinking we might do something like in Gr4, where each player chooses the settings, and plays maybe 25 turns, and then we take the best start. How does that sound? I'll post the exact specifications if this sounds desirable. If not, I'll generate some options tonight or tomorrow morn.

25 turns initially sounds good, we might have a better shot that way

Haven't tried an OCC before, keen to try one, so yes please from me.

Alrighty, we'll go with something like what Greebley did then. This game is turning into a hodgepodge of stolen ideas/specifications. Everyone, play 25 turns with the following parameters, and we'll choose starts from there.

Parameters:
Patch: 1.22 C3C
Level: Deity
Variant: OCC
Civilization: TBD
Water: TBD
Map Type: TBD
Size:Standard
Age: TBD
Temperature: TBD
Climate: TBD
Barbarians: TBD
Rivals: Random
AI Aggression: Normal
Victory Condition: All are enabled.
Culturally linked starts: OFF
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On
SGLs: TBD

Oh, welcome aboard sanabas.

Roster:
Kaiser_Berger
ThERat
sanabas
open
open
bed_head7

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed08_2750BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
my take are Russians, but map is small pangaea
Barbs sedentary
the rest is random

1.4000BC
found Moskow on the spot

5.3750BCBC
we get CB from a hut


meet the French
CB and pottery gets us masonry

[B]9 3550BC
meet Celts, masonry and 10g gets us WC

10.3500BC
get alphabet for WC from French

16.3200BC
meet Aztecs, they are down 3 techs

18.3100BC
meet Greece

21.2950BC
Aztecs know IW

22.2900BC
we get the wheel, can't get IW but a worker for the wheel

23.2850BC
Celts also know IW
can trade 3 techs for IW
meet last Civ, India

25. 2750BC
there are 3 sources of iron nearby, but not in our land, we have 1 lux, shield rich land
currently 1 scout, 2hp warriors, 1 worker and 1 slave, granary is up, next rax

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed82750.jpg

I'd be glad to take the challenge, if you'll take me in

ThERat, a couple of things. Do you think that we'll make it to Cossacks without the Colossus? Besides, one of the only things that was required was a standard sized map. So if you actually want your start to be chosen, you are making it difficult on yourself.

Roster:
Kaiser_Berger
ThERat
sanabas
Beorn-eL-Feared
open
bed_head7

With five now, why don't we get this going as soon as everyone has put up a possible start, or a start jumps out at us that screams to be played.

70% Water Pangaea
Barbs Sedentary
Wet, Temperate, 4 billion

Roll a few starts, best one is as Spain. Average start, but it does have ivory.

4000

Madrid founded.

3550

Persia is right next door.

3100

Ivory hooked up.

Meet Mongols and Rome. Trade Rome CB for BW and 20g.

Colossus started.

2750

Colossus due in 34, which will drop next turn due to mine.


Summary

I think its not too shabby. Might be worth a whirl.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bed-8-start.JPG

3100 BC (18) - Meet Portugal. Buy a worker for 70g, 3gpt.

3000 BC (20) - Meet Spain. No trades available.

2850 BC (23) - Meet Arabia. No trades available.

I haven't managed to get Bronze Working yet, and no gold available with which to buy it. However, Amsterdam has a granary, four workers and one slave, a luxury, four BGs and two cows. All of the workers should mean that as soon as we do get Bronze Working, we should be able to build it in a hurry, as we will be fully improved in the capital by turn 50, when writing comes in. We could then build Colossus in 9 turns. I don't know if that is too late at this level. There are also two curraghs exploring.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed08_2750BC_dutch.jpg

sanabas, Beorn-eL-Feared, do you have any starts that you want to put forward, or are you content to take one posted above?

Any lurkers, there is still another spot available if you want it. I prefer to take six players when possible, though five will certainly do fine here.

I'll play one tonight, haven't had time to get a decent amount of time for myself lately, but by friday it'll be much easier. So bbl with a start

Carthage, 80% water.

4000 found Carthage, mine a wine. Heading for 2 warriors-granary, searching pots at full.

3650 seeing tealish and pinkish borders

3550 GilliGilligamesh is up WC, CB, BW and pots. Mao does not have alpha or BW. I hurry up and trade him our alphabet (chinese alphabet is too complicated, they should be glad I gave them more standard stuff) before he buys it off the sumerians for crumbles of apple pie. Brief: pot, CB, WC for alpha+5gpt+1g. Researching writing at min.

3450 Open up a barb goodie hut beside the chinese capital, misfortunately an archer intercepts them before they attack chinese workers.

3200 Meet Jules and Cathy, Jules is down masonry and up BW, trade for it +4g. Cathy and Gilligan-amesh are up mysticism, Cathy has the wheel. Egypt still to discover.

2750 Temple on the queue, 2 forests will be chopped soon, granary is running. Couldn't get a deal for wheel or mysticism: Cathy has both, Mao has the wheel and Gilli has mysticism. Will probably be able to lock on a deal once the gpt agreement expires with Mao.

All are annoyed with us, it must be the beard. Spotted ivory to the east and spices up north. Got wines. Carthage size 2, 2 warriors exploring, no extra food around so I don't have a spectacular size 5 with 4 workers ;) but I feel it has potential enough to be posted. Screenshot pending

so I don't have a spectacular size 5 with 4 workers

I am all about growth. Even on Deity, I'll have 5-7 cities before starting to build a military. You'll notice that I don't have any military in my game.

I suggest to go either with KB's or bedhead's start to get this rolling

Yeah, ditto to what ThERat said. I haven't played a decent start yet, either bedhead's or KB's start will do, very slight preference for bedhead's.

My take on bed_head's, that start is an impressive kickoff if I ever saw one.

edit: I said the exact opposite of what I meant to; god I need to practice my english more.

Is there still one roster spot open?

My take on Kaiser's, that start is an impressive kickoff if I ever saw one.

What do you like about Kaiser's start?

killercane, you are in. Vote on a start or submit your own. I'd like to have the decision made within 24h so we can get this going.

Roster:
Kaiser_Berger
ThERat
sanabas
Beorn-eL-Feared
killercane
bed_head7

What about this start, Carthage circa 3000 BC? Ivory and a dye, 3 BGs + the cow. Setting is small 70% pangea, or do you want standard?

Sorry, it needs to be a standard sized map.

Ah sorry I just looked at your first post initially; are the goals still the same, ie shooting for space/conquest, with 20K as a secondary goal?

Wow, so sorry. that was supposed to be standard, not small, no wonder ThERat put a small one forward. Now that I think about it, I am not sure if my map is a pangaea, though that was the intent. So I am going to withdraw my start from consideration, and will have a replacement up (hopefully) within the hour. Again, sorry for the confusion. That is what I get for copying and pasting directly without reading it all.

@bed_head I edited my post because my brain farted (yet again) and would have said your start. Sorry for the misunderstandings

Hm, both of AG13 and AG16 were on small, not standard, which I somehow missed. Perhaps upping to standard is too much of a challenge, especially since the game didn't go all that well on small. So I guess either size is fine, and any map that has been posted can be played.

Youre killing me BH7, make up your damn mind! Just kidding :) . Are you still wanting pangea? I just rolled a decent start with the Byzantines on a standard 70% archipelago, which might make shooting for space more doable. Or the Carthage one above might not be too bad for conquest on small. Numidians + Ancient Cavs would be tough for almost an entire age.

BTW I meant "dye" in the pic above, i was too busy laughing at my ghetto writing job to notice. gems or dyes its all the same anyway.

Whatever. OCC on Deity on any map size other than tiny, any land form, I give up. I just want to start.

Lol I have no preference really, I'll vote for either Bed's Netherland start or my Carthage one. Heres the Byz screenshot, could we hope for an ironworks city?

IMHO a standard map on deity won't be winnable, it's tough on emperor I think. But, I will just settle with the majority vote here.

I'm inclined to give killercane's a try, and then if we lose, we can give a small one a shot.

Any start without rivers is a no-no.

Yeah, we need a river. Lets just get a decent looking river start and give it a whirl.

Wow, did not even notice lack of river. Completely right, rivers are mandatory. Okay, we'll continue looking.

Just got in from my bday celebration (turned 26 today). Forgot about river necessity, but that Byz start just rated "decent" in my book anyway. Rolled about 20 more starts mixing up civs between Carth, Byz, and Dutch since I figured they would give us the best shot/ I varied water level, continents and archipelago (I think we're likely to get waxed on Pangea once expansion is finished, after looking at AG16).

This one was the best. 80% water continent (standard). I counted at least 6 luxs on our continent (no ivory), 4 within easy reach. We share the island/continent with France and Persia is to our Northwest. We have a minimum of coast tiles as well. This is the last one I'll throw out there, finding a map is :(, I just want to get started for better or for worse.

That looks acceptable to me. Would you mind posting the save?

Joanie and X man told me they welcomed their new Carthaginian overlords.

Who wants to take it? You available to play, Kaiser_Berger?

Roster?:

killercane
ThERat
sanabas
Kaiser_Berger
Beorn-eL-Feared
bed_head7

Does this work?

I have a presentation I need to prepare tomorrow, so I probably wouldn't be best to lead it off. Could play Friday probably though, so if someone would swap in the order that would work nicely.

if you don't mind that I play tomorrow since tonight is D&D, I will take it

I would be more inclined to roll a small map start, sorry for the inconvenience, but I wouldn't feel all too confident on standard.

No reason not to give it a shot unless you feel that it will be an excercise of utter futility. If we lose, oh well, we can try again on small.

Yeah hell if we lose it'll prolly be a quick painless death anyways.

Oh, sorry I must have been a day late, thought it was still to be voted. Nothing is an exercise of utter futility, besides whining ;)

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed08_2150BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
lower the crazy 40% lux to 20% (why was it so high?)

1. 2710BC
city grows and Colossus now in 33

2. 2670BC
zzzz

3.2630BC
send curragh on suicide trip

4 2590BC
curragh survives and sees new land

5 .2550BC
curragh survives again and we reached the shores of an unknows land :dance:
Crathage grows, but since we connected dyes, we can leave lux at 20%
Colossus now in 25

6.2510BC
zzzz

7.2470BC
nobody seems to inhabit that new Island we discovered

8.2430BC
colossus now in 19 due to mining
curragh jumps again

IT we meet Portugese

9.2390BC
we can trade masonry for CB, the wheel and 12g
Carthage grows to 5, warrior is back for MP duty, Colossus in 14

IT Persians start Colossus as well

10.2350BC
zzzz

11.2310BC
zzzz

12.2270BC
Portugal now knows mysticism as well (IW known already), spot a new border

IT as for pretty bad news Portugese finish Colossus :cry:

13.2230BC
switch to Pyramids to salvage the shields, maybe we could have GLib
we meet Sumer who are up mysticism, they are giving it up +35g for masonry
Persia just learned IW

14.2190BC
France knows maths now but lack mysticism

15.2150BC
there are some trading opportunities hopefully, writing is in at 13, hopefully we can speed up lit to match prebuild
pyramids now in 31
the deal with persia is close but just not yet

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed82150.jpg

we should try and go full speed for Glib and match prebuild and the tech, we could even hire scientists to slow down build and speed up the research

I don't think we have a shot of getting through the Industrial Age without the Colossus. I am going to start looking for starts again. If we want to continue, I suppose we could, but I think at this point it would be futile.

Losing Colossus does shave income by a huge amount for an OCC, a real crippling blow. Agree on going until we manages to get it.

why don't we chose enemy that can't build Colossus right away?

That might help us a bit. Eliminating all scientific civs aside from possibly us would help somewhat.

Scrap it, Col is definitely Important Need #1. Heres my free flow of consciousness thought process: I would like to go for space as the primary goal (I may be alone in this), which may entail doctoring the AI civs/map type to: no seafaring civs and small (any type) or standard (archipelago). I would be happy with a win at those settings, though random selection would be even more satisfying. But Im pretty laid back so whatever Team Bedhead decides will be fine by me.

I think a good game would have us building the Col and GLibrary, hitting education after the revolt to republic, switching a prebuild over to Copernicus @ Astronomy, nailing Newtons (possible detour to Shakespeare's via trading for democracy?), and then we would be relatively coasting through the IA, with perhaps some trepidation over losing it in the modern age by AI domination or an AI spaceship.

Heh, sorry about the 40% luxes, that was 4 turns of drunken negligence after producing those two workers. I was just happy to find a halfway playable map.

Also would the Byzantines be our #1 choice?

Small pangaea map here. Wet and warm, no barbs, 4 million years. All else random.

3550 BC (9) - Meet the Maya. Trade Alphabet and 14g for Masonry.

3400 BC (12) - Meet the Babylonians. Trade Alphabet and Masonry for Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial, and 41g.

3150 BC (17) - Meet the Persians. Trade Alphabet and 100g for two workers.

3050 BC (19) - Meet the Japanese, but no trades available.

3000 BC (20) - Meet the Mongols. Give Alphabet and 28g for The Wheel. Trade The Wheel to Babylon for Warrior Code and 8g. Sell it to Persia and get our 100g back.

2350 BC (35) - Buy Mysticism from Japan for 165g. Mysticism and 27g to Babylon for Horseback Riding. Mysticism and Horseback Riding to Persia for Iron Working and 12g.

1790 BC (49) - Finish Colossus. Start some barracks. We have made it 49 turns without a single ground unit. Just a few curraghs, a couple workers, and a couple of slaves (curraghs all have sunk now, though they did spectacularly while they were around).

1750 BC (50) - Trade Writing and 27g for Mathematics from the Maya. Unfortunately, the Mongols of all civs got Writing a few turns back, so only the Maya and the Persians don't know it. Philo was already learned. Oh, Map Making was autoselected after getting Writing. That should be Literature.

I know 50 turns is a lot, but I wanted to make sure we had a shot. Iron, incense and the Colossus at 1750 BC is not bad.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed08_1750BC_dutch.jpg

Check out how much map got uncovered with three curraghs. They lasted quite a few turns in the ocean. I was rather impressed.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed08_1750BC_dutch_minimap.jpg

Nice work, not too shabby of a map. Looks like we can get lit in 20 turns @ a -1 deficit and the Pyramids and Oracle are still out there. I dont like the scientific civs though, and why are we mining the plains rather than the hills?

looking good, so what's the roster?

I believe that worker is roading, though the graphic as it is paused looks like mining.

Roster, roster, roster. killercane, ThERat, and Kaiser_Berger have fulfilled duties recently, I believe. Beorn, you ready to go? Then sanabas?

bed_head7
Beorn-eL-Feared
sanabas
Kaiser_Berger
killercane
ThERat

Nice start, this one looks like a winner. Iron for Swiss Mercs will be nice should we attract any undue attention.

Suits me. that start looks good.

Ok ... *takes a deep breath* I'll try not to put my foot in my mouth before I speak this time :lol:

Yes I'm ready. Don't have much time as of right now but my schedule tomorrow will probably allow me to play. Got 2 jobs and finals to settle down, so sorry for that. I assume it's the 1750 Dutch save (what else :mischief:).

Very Nice job btw. I'll start counting to 24 and update you guys on speculations about how we should improve our territory for the 12 food non-despot period, so as to optimise shields and comm once we get there and no longer need the extra growth.

With more hours of sleep, I should sound like I have a half-decent english from this time on :lol:

Looks like a 20 shield despotic city working all the hills, and 25 shields in republic with a mined plains. not sure about commerce

Preliminary:
Workers: he is indeed mining the plains, and I stop him from it, plan is road-> mine mountain. We already have enough food producing tiles as is, we need to make the mountains good for us, now. After that road the 2nd incense for trades, then finish everything off.
Trades: Not everyone has MM, Poly and Philo, so I attempt fund extortion ... *ahem* Tech brokering. Misfortunately the gold pool is of 217 gold for Polytheism, 191 for philosophy. Both would cost more, so I abstain :sad:
We can get lit in 21 instead of 20 if we allow ourselves to grow faster, which I do.

So here I go

1725 Movement around, say hi to Humhum the bab spearman. Maya join the race for oracle. My take we'll be better off doing prebuild with pyramids, if we can get to a prebuild. Hammu bought MM.
1700 Xman bought something, gold pool for philo drops further down. Micromanage an extra gold off the future growth food need.
1675 Amsterdam Barrack -> Swordsman: we have spare support and we need MP. I chose to lose a turn for sword over spear because of the versatility. Cultural expansion.

IBT Oracle finished by the Japs in Kyoto.

1650 Growth, Lux up to 40%, lit in 18. Mine the N hill. Micro to maximize growth.

IBT: Babs cycle their wondercascade towards the lighthouse, mongols to the pyramids.

1625 Amsterdam Sword->Sword. Sci/Lux back to 70/30. Japan has currency. Cannot buy. Cannot MM 15 spt off amsterdam so I keep focus on growth rather than a faster swordsman.

IBT Moriarty, a mayan warrior, moves onto our second incense hill.

1600 Movement around, babs gonna settle near us.
1575Worker done mining the iron, moves up to mine the incense. Growth and swordsman in 2.

IBT Mayans finish the pyramids.

1550 Mine the roaded incese. Looks like mayans learned construction: they, Japan and Babs have it; the latter 2 are broke. Cannot buy.

IBT Mongols' wonder cascade ends up on the Mausoleum.

1525 Amsterdam Swordsman -> Temple. Now size 11, working the mined iron for extra shields, will have to MM it over to the incense not to waste shields.
1500 BC move workers to mine the hills up north. As long as we are despotic people, it will be optimal this way; after that, we'll have to have worked the hills to get a maximal amount of shields off our land.

Note to the next player: You'll have to use swap the iron/incense hills workers to get 14, 15 or 16 shields (whatever wastes nothing) and to squeeze a maximal amount of cash. The big picture hasn't moved a notch, not gonna post a screenie. N and SE mines are worked, mining the W one and will have to attack the SW one soon. The plains mining team will be done before size 12 comes in. Watch Xerxes for whenever he would buy maths for less than his max gold, in case he researches it and we can get a few pennies on his last research turn.

Got it, will play tonight.

1500BC: All good, but we are badly behind on tech

1425BC: Amsterdam builds temple, lux still has to be 30%, build 2-turn swords until we reach 20spt & 1 turn spears

1400BC: Japan extorts 25 gold

1375: Japan are building the Great Library :mad:

1350: Maya builds Statue of Zeus

1325: Learn Literature, switch to GL.
Embassy with Japan, Kyoto will finish Hanging Gardens in 5 turns.
Investigate Kagoshima, GL will finish in 118 turns.
Based on that, I don't trade Literature to anyone, we should get GL, barring a disastorous cascade from temple of artemis or great lighthouse.
I start research on Philo at 50% just in case

1300BC: We hit 20spt

1250BC: GL is due in 16 turns.

Alright, looks like we are in okay shape still.

Roster:
bed_head7
Beorn-eL-Feared
sanabas
Kaiser_Berger <- up
killercane
ThERat

I feel SG overload setting in. 4th game and counting :lol: Got it.

You can always switch with killercane if you like. 05 comes before 08, but 08 may not want to wait.

Well, 05 is up and ready to go, and since this is OCC I can take it now with minimal delay.

Preturn- We look alright.

T2 1200

Babylon has declared on Japan, Japan complete Hanging Gardens and ToA.

T4 1150

Mongols have start GL as well.

T7 1075

Maya has completed Great Wall.

T8 1050

Maya and Babylon join GL party.

T9 1025

Maya and Japan sign up against Babylon, Maya establish embassy with us.

T13 925

The bad news comes in, the Mongols complete the GL 3 turns before us. I trade our tech lead over Persia for Map Making and CoL. Switch our build to Lighthouse so we'll at least get some extra tourism money.

T14 900

We get Lighthouse.

T15 875

nada.


Summary

Well, things will be quite difficult without the GL. Is Deity OCC viable without it? We'll find out if we keep playing.

Ugh on the GL. Ive got it. Dunno if this will be possible.

I take it that it is not within the spirit of the game to capture and hold (Karakorum I guess) for a turn?

Preturn-

Everyone besides Persia is up Poly and Const on us, Currency is only owned by Japos, wont take anything for it. Babs have republic, and will give it up for 25 gold (uhhh no, jk). Drastic times call for drastic measures. Switch harbor to sword, we'll attack babs or the japanese to extort tech.

IT- Mong declare on Japanese. Hmm good.

850- Send slave on scouting duty to uncover fog in japanese territory. 4 swords near Nara.

825- Nara now size 7. Hold off on attack. Give in to Bab demand for 24 gold.

800-730- Build more swords. Persia and babs at war with Japanese. Get in position to attack Jap ivory city, Nara back to size 6. Embassy and ROP with Persia.

710- more of the same. See Jap Medi Infantry. They have no horses and Nara is their only iron showing.

690- Japs boot our slave scout.

670- We have 4 swords at both Nara and ivory city, we declare and move in.

650- Destroy both cities, one of which had rushed a pike. Send slaves back home. Capital is undefended right now, sword in one turn.

630- Kill devil Medi infantry, down to 4 swords. We should be able to get to the middle ages in the next turnset when we peace out the japanese.
-The Mongols are offering us wines +20 gold for our incense that we gained when Nara was destroyed. Japs at least have Feudalism, everyone else is at war with them so they might have a monopoly (no one is building the Art of War). If we do get to the MA soon and get republic, we might be able to gift persia there as well and open up some trading possibilities, dont know.

are we continuing? I think we should though it might be a toughie

got it, tonight

Absolutely we should continue. No GL hurts, but it's not an automatic loss. Research with just one city would be very slow post-education anyway, we just need to start pointy stick research earlier.

We'll play it to the bitter end. No GL isn't disastrous, as we have some other things going for us here. With going to war instead, it may not hurt that badly at all.

Edit: I can't believe that the Great Library was built before the Great Lighthouse.

Well once we get Feudalism, nobodys gonna be able to take down our SMerc/MDI/treb uber stack of destruction (at least for awhile). We could support 30 units or so if we put a conquestish flavor on the game.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bed08_350BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
it's turn 96, well will straighten that. we are fighting a war with 4 swords left, and no home defense? anyone might just step in and delete us
this got to change fast. lux is 30% due to no MP. what a game is this?
we are on 20spt building swords (30s), that's such a waste. hope that didn't go on for too long here
well no wonder, we don't even have a harbor
change production to a spear and try and get peace asap

IT archer dies attacking our sword, 3 slaves get captured by Japanese

1.610BC
find a worker improving foreign land when we can still improve our own land a bit

IT we defeat another archer on defense, many settler pairs come into view

2. 590BC
ah, Japanese want to talk
we get peace and Republic for 5gpt and 10g
trade republic and 8 gpt to Maya for construction and currency
sell Republic to Persia for 105g (all they have) and 2 slaves
revolt and we draw a mere 2 turns anarchy (are we religious :lol: )
we make -13gpt and lose a lot of food, well 2 turns only
let Amsterdam riot for a turn

IT Amsterdam riots

3. 570BCAD
make it happy

IT we're a Republic

4. 550BC
with 12 pop we can make currently 25spt max
first go for a harbor, reduce lux to 20% and we make 21gpt

5 .530BC
market next in 4, we need more money
we want to enter MA, get polytheism for 5gpt, incense and 100g from Babylon
use cash since we do not want too much of it to be demanded away

6. 510BC
we still have 2 native workers and unit cost too high, see what we can do with them, disband won't
give any pop gain

7. 490BC
we can get wines from Mongols for both
do that and our gpt is back to 12gpt

8. 470BC
zzzz

IT Babs demand 28g, after we just gave them some stuff, refuse
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed8470.jpg
we get market just in time to change back to military

9. 450BC
can reduce lux t 10%. maximise commerce for 2 turn sword and income jumps to 47gpt
we have incense back
defeat a Babs unit at border (lucky to have parked a sword there)

IT no counter

10.430BC
start to attack Eridu,we have 3 swords there next turn, beat one spear

IT Japan and Mongols sign peace

11.410BC
attack Eridu, we beat 1 spear and raze it gaining 5 slaves
change build to library next in 3 turns

14.350BC
we get a library and run out of stuff to build
find that Baylon is willing to talk
get monotheism for peace and 13gpt
need to increase lux to 20% due to war end
Maya seems to be willing to settle very aggressively next to us
be careful about trading incense, trade routes are very delicate and we must NOT get a broken rep

Japan is up 3 techs while we have some potential trading opportunities

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed8350.jpg

"IT renew tobacco deal and almost mix up Siam and India, wondering how come India is s advanced (why is Gandhi from Thailand suddenly)
Canterbury is the city for that wonder, in 10."

I think you have a case of SG-itis, and youre games are running together.

hey by the way, wanted say that the war was great because it gave us republic cheap and great trading, just some minor MM issues

Roster:
bed_head7 :bump:<- up
Beorn-eL-Feared
sanabas
Kaiser_Berger
killercane
ThERat

Hot damn, I should have known that several days with no SGs was not right. Thanks for pointing this out. Got it.

wait wait, i was wrong I meant it in order of names since I played last....

bed_head7 <- up
Beorn-eL-Feared
sanabas
Kaiser_Berger
killercane
ThERat

Hmm. Is there anyone else I can blame for this?

I suppose that this is the reason for a roster. Sorry all.

Aha! I knew I wasn't up! Then again ,if I really did, I wouldn't have jumped up and grabbed it so quickly :lol:

270 BC (4) - Mayans demand incense. Uh, no. They declare. Yeah, bring it on.

190 BC (8) - Now Persia comes asking for incense. NO! They back off.

90 BC (13) - Buy Engineering from the Mongols for 840g, incense, and 10gpt. If the Japanese attack us, we are done for anyway, so the trade route isn't really a big concern. We are at war with the Mayans but can still trade with Babylon through Japan I am guessing, so sell Babylon Engineering and our Iron to get Fuedalism.

Japan is large. Very large. The may become a concern for us soon.

If we mine two plains, we can do 30spt with 5fpt starvation. We could do this for 10 turns until the granary is empty, and then do another good number like 20spt or 24spt until the food box is full again.

We can pursue the Mayan war if we like, and hope to eventually get a discount, though they have nothing at the moment. We have some 'pults so we can take out Bonampak which should make trading favorable.

By the way, refusing the Persian demand was by no means a dangerous decision. They are about done for. Perhaps turning down the Maya wasn't terribly smart, but it gave War Happiness and they are concerned with Babylon at the moment so we are dealing with only a trickle of units. We can take out the units outside our borders if we want, or just the MI, but that is the next player's decision.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed08_50BC.jpg

Sounds like it's my turn, so here's a got it

I guess there is not much for us to win by warring the mayans, so I'll try and cool it off with them and then throw everyone at war with Tokugawa. I hope.

50 BC Persia has but one city left, so I "gift" them engineering for the 6 gold they have left. Max amount of shields we can output is not enough for colosseum in 4 so I give us what spare food we need so it'll be instant growth in due time. Attack all Mayan troops by our border, no promotions :ar15:

IBT Xman has been genocided.

30 BC Peace with Smoke-Jaguar gives us 12+2gpt. Not going to let him waste troops on us that could attack a Samurai. Send workers to barricade our square by the ONLY Japanese Iron. We'll want that square bombed in due time.

30 AD Troops are now healed and reassigned to the japanese front. All spearmen and pults are backed in Amsterdam for upgrade potential. The Mayans are too dumb still to road up to us, and they want a pile of cash for a ROP, so we still depend on the Japs for trades, and we have 5 more turns of ongoing trades with the other civs than turns of forced peace with the japs.

50 AD Amsterdam Colosseum->Trebuchet. MM some tiles at sea for more gold, we can spare some shields. Japs have learned Invention and traded it to the mongols.

70 AD Japs start on copernicus :eek::ack:

IBT Mongols declare on the Japs.

90 BC Amsterdam Trebuchet->Trebuchet

IBT Mongols get Knight's templar

130 BC msterdam Trebuchet->Trebuchet

4 more turns to our peace with the Japs. We still have no iron to upgrade to Swiss Mercs and get golden age. While in golden age it'll be possible to run a 40 spt MDI pump, or a 2 turn Knight pump, so getting GA asap is an option we need not overlook, as those units could deal a good bunch of damage to our buddies in Japan and prevent them from world domination, if our Mongol friends do not breach them with Keshik and templars. That's my 2 cents.

Alrighty. I guess sanabas gets to lead us into war. We definitely need to slow down the Japanese.

bed_head7
Beorn-eL-Feared
sanabas <- up
Kaiser_Berger <- on deck
killercane
ThERat

150AD: There'll be no war from me anytime soon as we only have 5 swordsmen, and we're giving away our only iron and can't build more. I'll stick to 2-turn trebs until we have our iron back, then back to mercs & MDIs.

170: Upgrade 4 catapults

250: Babylon & Maya sign peace

260: Every civ now has all 4 of the visible techs.

280: We have iron again, Trade Incense to Babylon for spices & 40 gold
Upgrade 5 swords & 4 spears

300: Japan & Mongols sign peace.

Maybe war isn't the answer, but we need to find some way to get us back in the picture in terms of techs. We need to be able to get Copernicus somehow.

bed_head7
Beorn-eL-Feared
sanabas
Kaiser_Berger <- up
killercane <- on deck
ThERat

I'd say we're zero chance for Copernicus. Invention was being researched at minimum when I got the game, and had been for 12 turns as far as I could tell. We are well behind everyone on techs, war looks like the only way for us to catch up.

I've got it.

Preturn- I will concentrate on building up our military so next player can try and warmonger.

T4 340

Mongols have completed Leo's.

T6 360

We learn Invention, start on Theology.

T13 430

Japan has declared on the Mongols. Our time to strike is near.

T15 450

Mongols are already collapsing, our window will soon close.


Summary

Our military is pathetic, but what else would you expect from an OCC. With most of the Japanese units in the West, we need to strike in the next couple turns and hopefully pull off a few razes and get peace. This one is a real long shot at this point. Japan is poised to win by domination very easily.

All I can say is good luck, killercane.

bed_head7
Beorn-eL-Feared
sanabas
Kaiser_Berger
killercane <- up
ThERat <- on deck

Got it, havent looked at it yet. I like going to war though, seems Im getting the war turns in this game.

460- Looks alright. Wait for the worker crew to fortress, I want to uncover more Jap territory with a slave.

470-Treb to MDI, MMing for 20 shields. I dont want to be attacking across a river so buy an ROP with Maya for 90 gold. Moving to 2 South of Yokohama w/ main stack. Just east of iron with 2 Mercs and treb.

480-490- Dodge Mayan units to get in position.

500- Declare and move in w/ 11 MDIs, 9 trebs, 5 mercs. Had to kill Jap slave scout cause he couldnt get out of Jap territory (mayan blockade). He unveiled desert west of Yoko which is likely where their saltpeter is.

510- The game is afoot. Our artillery misses 3 times, hits, miss, hits, misses, and hits! This unveils 2 muskets down to 2 hps and some sort of mounted warrior, with 6-3-3 stats, and a penchant for handing out destruction to Dutchmen. We are in deep... Well you know. Kill 2 cavs and the muskets, raise Yoko, get a ton of slaves. Buy alliance against Japs with Maya for 28gpt, we arent fighting cavs alone and the Mongols dont count. Cover all units with Mercs.

IT- 1 cav kills merc and another kills the MDI he was guarding. Oh my, 6 Jap cavs plunge into Mayaville.

520- Pull back to the home front, think about selling iron that we gained from raising Yoko, but think better of it since Im sure the enemy is about to plop another city down on Yokos remains. Pillage the iron, hope Maya pillages their salt. Arbelas borders have expanded south, meaning cavs can strike Amsterdam from there. If they come raining down in the interturn we are dead. Sell 9 slaves to Maya for Theology +60 gold; (We had 26 BTW).

530- No cavs show, we live another day. Move troops inside Am, and 2 mercs to pillage arbela.

IT- 1 merc killed (0-2 on the Golden Age attempts).

540 & 550- Nothing other than pillaging their spice.

560- Army of 9 MDIs is healed and awaiting orders. "Army" is a relative turn here because we pretty much suck. No Golden Age yet, I fear we've waited too long. Mongols are on their last leg we might be able to get something out of them. We have one elite MDI, protect his ass, we definitely need an army. Our culture is pretty puny, 20K is out of the question. Its not too late to put a settler on a boat and retire to the tropical islands in the east to live out the rest of our days....

got it, what is our goal here actually? We need to think of a strategy to win. Or are we trying to get to Cav's and tanks to play human modern strength? I think we survived quite long, no need to resettle in exile on the tropical paradise island.

I was probably being excessive in complaining about our situation. The main problem I see is that even if we beat down Japan the Mayans will just fill in the empty space (they plopped a city down @ former Yokohama 3 turns after I raised it). We need horses and cavs asap to keep em in check.

If we free up space for the Mayans to settle that is actually good for us. We just need to make sure Japan is slowed down and that there are no runaway civs. When we have the civs balanced then we can think of how in the hell we can win.

If we free up space for the Mayans to settle that is actually good for us. We just need to make sure Japan is slowed down and that there are no runaway civs. When we have the civs balanced then we can think of how in the hell we can win.

That's been my thought for the last few turnsets. I suppose I should have articulated it, but thanks Kaiser_Berger for doing that for me.

I think the "how in hell can we win" was clear for everyone from turn one :rotfl:

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed08_720AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
we are at turn 171, will try to even it out
we only make 11gpt and have 123g, time to burn some units
sent our SOD to Arbela. lost quite a few units, but got GA while taking out Arbela for a number of slaves

got gunpowder from Mongols for 30gpt and some workers
we are very lucky, we actually have saltpeter :dance:

for the next few turns, Quirigia came under strong attack and since there is no immediate need for salt (we still can only build swiss mercs, no muskets)
traded it to Maya for education and 80g

at turn 11 (182) Quirigua fell to Japanese

turn 13 renewed the lux deal with babs but we gain 4gpt

at turn 15, 1 turn before the MPP expired set up attack on Quirigua and managed to raze it

lost 3 units in the IT and cancelled the MPP
signed peace in 720AD and got Music Theory for 5gpt for peace
traded MT, a few workers and 20gpt for chemistry with Babs

if we want to, we could connect 2nd iron and trade with babs for close to a tech, but be careful about GA ending

sorry that I played odd turns, but 10 was too short and I wanted to play the war out
ended up playing 16 turns

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed8720.jpg

Great turns my man. I shouldnt have pillaged that iron, but our slave crew can get it hooked up pretty quick.

Good thing we got something out of the war, neat job

Indeed, excellent progress, but I have learned to expect nothing less from you.

Indeed, excellent progress, but I have learned to expect nothing less from you.
feels a little awkward reading this. I think just some luck sometimes, but these tight games, it is important to play your luxes and resources as best as we can.

I'd suggest to connect iron, then trade it. Even if we lose the 2nd iron, it will be back online when we need it. Currently I would try and build some cash and get us maybe banking or the path to Cav's. The Japanese seem to be overwhelming strong. hope the shipment of salt helps Maya to counter them. The Mongols have been driven to exile already (now residing on those tropical paradise Islands). Once the GA ends, that 30gpt deal will end soon after that.

:wavey: Skip me up to Tues 26th, then I'll be back and report for duties :salute:

720 AD (0) - Babylon gives us Banking for Iron, one of their workers, and 10g.

750 AD (3) - Give Japan Iron and Incense for Astronomy.

760 AD (4) - Japanese finish Bach's. Good thing I switched to bank already.

Somewhere in here, Japan and Maya make peace.

850 AD (13) - Saltpeter and 275g to Maya gets Physics.

890 AD (17) - Some turns ago, the Mongols made some absurd demand, and after I refused, they declared. After razing one of their three cities (only because it had iron, and I want us to maintain our stranglehold on the iron supply for as long as we can), they are willing to give us Metallurgy for peace! We have some extra cash, so steal ToG from the Mayans (immediate steal - so we got lucky). ToG, 48gpt, and 171g gets Military Tradition from Babylon. I know, it isn't required, but we are gonna need cavs if we want to survive much longer.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed08_900AD_mongols.jpg

One of the incense deals is up in six turns. The Mayan city founded a turn ago. Hopefully they aren't rushing a temple or anything. After that deal ends, we'll have to limit ourselves to trading one of the incenses.

[note that after taking the screenshot, I switched to Newton's - or chances at getting it are slim, but it is worth a shot]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed08_900AD_mayans.jpg

well done...talking about stealing luck...it was always bedhead calling me crazy....

can we get horses to build some Cav's? we need to keep Japan smaller, so get horses, build up a good force and attack them. is that feasible?

Well, Japan has the only sources of horsies, as I recall. We can get them with cash now or wait until a trade with them expires and then renogotiate the deal to get horses. Sooner is probably better.

About the steal - yeah, it was risky, and not something I usually do. The opportunity for a twofer was too much to pass up, and the Mayans were a little beat up after war with Japan. We could have held out alright against them, I think. Just look at all of those fortresses!

bed_head7
Beorn-eL-Feared <- out until the 26th
sanabas <- up
Kaiser_Berger <- on deck
killercane
ThERat

Sorry, RL is getting in the way this weekend, I won't get to this for at least 36, probably closer to 48 hours. Please skip me for this turn, all will be good next time it comes around.

bed_head7
Beorn-eL-Feared <- out until the 26th
sanabas
Kaiser_Berger <- up
killercane <- on deck
ThERat

Gooooot it.

Preturn- We look alright, but looks like no war for a while unitl we can get our Saltpeter back.

T5 950

I'm able to redeal with Japan for our iron. I could get horses and salt easy, but decide it would be better to grab Magnetism. Iron, 206g and 33gpt gets it. Japan and Maya have Nationalism, otherwise we are at tech parity.

T6 960

I remeber to sell off our only incense to Japan and get horses, saltpeter, gems, and 130g out of it.

T13 1030

Maya beats us to Newtons by 5 turns. We get one very expensive cavalry.

T15 1050

Uh oh. Mayan culture expanded and took one of our incense. We might have just had our rep shot for us....actually confirm that, Japan is quite angered with us on that one.



Summary

Our rep is messed up very nicely now. We have no more supply of horses, so no more cavalry after this next one. We'll have to find a way to get them back, although renogtiating peace will force us to pay through the roof due to our small size and power.

One of the incense deals is up in six turns. The Mayan city founded a turn ago. Hopefully they aren't rushing a temple or anything. After that deal ends, we'll have to limit ourselves to trading one of the incenses.

I should have bolded this in my turnlog. Oh well. It looks like conquest is our only way out. This is going to be ugly.

Ouch. Sorry I missed that, although its no excuse. A round of :smoke: for everyone, my treat! :rolleyes:

Well, we've all had our mistakes here. We'll be lucky to win, as this variant doesn't allow for mistakes.

Japan and Maya have Nationalism, otherwise we are at tech parity. sounds promising really.

We might have just had our rep shot for us :smoke: I hope that's not the end of this game...though horses are from Japan, I wonder whether they want to trade with us ever again...

We can always do gpt for resource. Our problem is going to be gpt for lump.

This one played quick, as Im at a loss for what to do.

T2- Japs have steam.

T3- Get Chiv & Monarchy from Mongols. Got horses on the cheap from japan for 3 gpt and 86 gold. Everyones still pissed off however.

T4-Babs declare on Japs. Renegotiate an extra gpt for the Bab spice for incense deal.

T10-Well Japan needs our iron and Maya need our salt, but having the damaged rep really hurts. No deals made. Japan still has a steam monopoly. The offers on the table are 2 luxes for iron via Japan/22 gpt for salt via Maya.

Built cavs the whole time. I think we could declare on Babylon when our deal runs out, but I dont see how that would net us much. Maybe if they get steam soon to extort it? They seem to be the weakest of the Big 3. Hitting the Maya would free up the incense, and they cant retort with cavs. Last I checked they still had muskets in outlying cities. Self research is not an option, steam is at 38 turns at -1. Stealing would be more profitable I suppose. Just some thoughts...

I think aiming for the weakest is the wrong thing to do in this situation. If we can get the Mayans and Babylons against Japan, that would probably be the course most likely to get us victory in the end, though in the short term it will be the most difficult to manage.

Oops, forgot roster.

bed_head7 <- on deck
Beorn-eL-Feared <- out until the 26th
sanabas
Kaiser_Berger
killercane
ThERat <- up

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed08_1250AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
agree with bedhead that we shouldn't go after the weakest, but actually the strongets, that is Japan
since research is not viable, reduce it to 10% and we make 79gpt
due to the broken rep, gpt for techs is virtually impossible, Japan wants our iron badly, well
we don't need 2 iron, some more Maya has one extra, before they trade, we trade with japan for 2 luxes
can actually reduce lux to 0% for the time being (95gpt)

IT lose wines

1.1160AD
lux back to 10%

IT Ottoman and Russia sign trade embargo

2.1170AD
nothing going on, we could of course, get to Maya and pull Japan in to get rid of that one town to gain back incense
declare and raze town, gaining us 2 slaves and the incense back
lux to 0% and we make 109gpt

IT Maya counters with 2 Cav attack but both retreat to our swiss merc

3. 1180AD
take those 2 cav's out and 1 caravel

4. 1190AD
nth much, advance towards Bonampak

IT they counter but lose 3 units against elite MDI

5. 1200AD
net 2 more slaves taking out a settler, since we get some troops trying to invade, retreat from Bonampak

6. 1210AD
our cannons can nicely dent units and Cav's take them out
get another settler pair, now Maya willing to talk with huge discount on techs,
this is our chance which i can't let it miss. do an imediate steal on Japan and we get steam :dance: :dance:
let's see what we can get from Maya now
they refuse to swap nationalism with us, so we get peace and 8gpt + 10g (what a nice fast war)
Japan has the only coal I can spot, not 1 but 3 sources, it seems of no value to them

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed81210.jpg :lol:
our slave armada starts to rail

unfortunately, we can't trade with Babs as well


7. 1220AD
Maya got steam from somewhere

8. 1230AD
RR, trying to maximse our income while building 4 turn Cav's

IT the Mayans are going to settle that spot again and we will lose that incense sooner or later

9.1240AD
zzzz

10.1250AD
currently we make 115gpt
RR is split into 3 groups, 12 slaves - 6 slaves - 2 slaves
Japan is up electricity and Industrialization, we should try and steal those once we have enough money
we might want to ally the world against them once we have RR and enough Cav's for a strike
we could make already 27spt for a 3 turn Cav, but I left it for max income
we currently have 6 Cav's
btw there is coal next to hakodate very nearby

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed81250.jpg

Awesome job Rat :goodjob: This is looking more and more promising. If we can get to Replaceable parts, we might stand a decent chance against these civs in a head on conflict. I still think Conquest would be a thing of wonder, but I think as long as we don't get dogpiled or have a runaway civ, we have a decent shot at being in position to win at the end.

Japan is the one that is running away. I wish we can fight them, but we need them first to give us horses and coal, once we got enough of that, it's time to strike and get Maya in as well.

The war with Maya wasn't so much of hurting them, but more of trying to gain a cheap tech, which in the end we couldn't. Let's hope Babs get medicine and not steam next.

1260 AD (2) - Our horse deal runs out. Get the horses back, plus Gems, Silks, and Wines for our last source of incense. Gee, I sure hope they aren't disappointed when we lose our incense again.

1300 AD (10) - Last IT, the Japanese declared on the Mayans. No land switched hands, but we need to do something. I immediately stole from Japan and succeeded, taking Electricity. Electricity, 390g, and 8gpt to the Mayans got us Industrialization. Also discover that Japan is researching Medicine, unfortunately, and already has Replaceable Parts.

The Babylonians have been exiled to a faraway island, just as the Mongols were. I guess this is what happens when one AI starts with 3 grass cows, a plains wheat, and flood plains right next to their capital (Tokyo has all of these thing within its workable tiles) and the rest of the AI had a game forest at best, which probably was only as good as a bonus grassland for most of the game.

We really need Replaceable Parts to be able to conduct a proper war. Cannons just won't do it here, since the Japanese have infantry.

So, do we hope we can somehow "acquire" Replaceable Parts sometime in the near future, and also hope the Mayans can hold on for a few turns, or do we just give the Japanese the best with what we've got. To be honest, I don't really have any idea.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bed08_1300AD.jpg

Awesome turns boys, this is looking up

we better check the domination limit. if Japan is close we need to attack and raze now, if not we might want to wait for RP, then attack. we somehow must manage to get rid of Japan. How we achieve that is a good question.

Sorry, I should have mentioned. Japan is around 50% land, as I recall. Some cultural expansions and some conquest of Mayan lands and it is game over.

I guess that makes me up, so here's a got it, though I think we could use a little brainstorming about how to fight Japan.

One thing I have done with some success in the past is to send a stack of defensive troops on a mountain near their cities and just sit. This will drag attention, troops, casualties, and an opportunity to launch a more thorough cavalry assault as well as a hand for the Mayans to resist.

The mountain at Matsuyama looks ideal in that it stands in the way the japanese would take to get through to the mayans. Since our rep is already broken, couldn't we just run over there and knock onto the war door? Should we find 3-4 of those spots and cover more land with our mercs?

Oh and I'm curious, how do you figure out (for sure) that the Japs are researching medicine?

The problem is that we will not be able to build any more Cav's once we attack Japan. The teactic sounds good and I fear if we wait for too long, Japan will simply win on domination. We might try and fight alongside Maya to cripple the Japanese. taking out cities will be difficult since they have infantry and we have only cannons and Cav's

When a tech is stolen, the available techs are shown in blue, and tech being researched by that civ is bold, or something like that.

Thanks, never used much of the spies to steal techs, no wonder I ignored that

Sorry guys I won't have time to play it until sunday most likely, so you might want to skip me again.

What use were the 2 mercs on an island to the east? Denying expansion? I disbanded (and mongols eventually took it over).

I started by completing factory and Coal plant, computing that we could get a magic 80 spt for 1-turn cavs. We do ^.^

So here it goes:

T5: Japan renews the coal deal for WM+171g

IT 7->8: Maya renews peace.

T8: 1st 1-turn cavalry is being made. That feels good.
However, we will need to do this 6 times and then recharge on food, as it takes us on a -3 food shortage. I'll start irrigating tiles so we can swap from one to the other for the recharge turns.

T9, T10: produce 1 more cav a turn, complete the preparation of food recharge tiles.

Here's the layout, in green circles are the food recharge tiles, blue crossed the ones you can spare, besides the top 2 hill/mountain tiles and the SSW one:
http://www.mat.ulaval.ca/~fbolduc/B/OCCfood.jpg
The way I see it is once you get to 2 food in the box, swap the low food tiles to high food tiles edit: and sea tiles, which will give +9Fpt and 40 shields a turn. It will take 2 turns to get back up the road. Edited because sea tiles do wonders.
Just make sure you spend 2 turns recharging every time you get too low on food. Then you can spend another 6 turns on 1-turn cavs. That's 7 cavs in 8 turns for as long as we want.

I'll fix the colors tomorrow, haven't found the problem yet from here at home.

and the save

Next turn we'll be able to steal again. Japan has RP, Corporation and Medecine, Mayas are not that far.

One city, the one we can see with our fortified troops, has fallen from the Mayans to the Japs.

I just tried to play, and the save I downloaded was corrupted. I'm about to unplug things to move house, and won't get to download it again and play, so please put me on autoskip. It should only be a few days until I'm set up again. Sorry.

Sorry, I'll look after it tonight at home

It's all good Beorn, I'm fairly sure the problem was that my download didn't work properly, I think the upload there is fine. I had a look, the file I downloaded shows as about 10kb smaller than the file size attached to your post. So I think the corruption problem was on my end.

bed_head7
Beorn-eL-Feared
sanabas <- up still, no indication on progress
Kaiser_Berger <- should play if possible
killercane
ThERat <- out until the 22nd

Sorry I let this go so long unattended. My mind is still elsewhere.

I'll get to it later today if no word is heard from Sanabas.

Sanabas posted in one of the LK games that he would be out of the loop temporarily. I suggest you skip him.

Thanks LKendter

Preturn- We're alright

T2 1360

We try and steal and Japan declares. Lets head towards the light.

T3 1365

We raze Tulum at the loss of one cav.

T7 1385

We're being overrun by Japanes everything. With no chance of building more cavs, its just a matter of time before we cave. There is no getting past Japan in this one, unfortunately. We gave it a pretty good go though nothing to be ashamed of.

Cool! killercane, you want to give it a shot?

Yes, certainly, anyone else feel free to try it. I think most outcomes will be similar though. Busting through an infantry clad Deity AI is hard enough with an empire, let alone one city.

No, there isn't really any point. Unless someone actually does want to try. I didn't even notice that you didn't post a save, so I wasn't suggesting that your turns be replayed. I thought maybe killercane had a miracle up his sleeve.

Doesnt sound like any miracles are possible. We could try again if anyone has the heart. Maybe an early conquest minded approach might be an idea? On the other hand, Civ IS getting a little on the boring side.

I don't have as set as schedule as I did over the winter, so I am cutting back SGs, down to 2 or 3 probably (still a ways to go).

It looks like you smoked everyone with your spaceship launch in the RBCIV game, Agent BH07.

Well, I guess so. I ended up playing it one weekend when I didn't have any SGs. At the moment, it feels with SGs like I either have none to play or all of them, so I am leaning towards getting my civ fix playing solo games, as I don't have to worry about schedule and I can just sit down and play if I feel like it.

Feels just about the same. And it always happens when I have too much time or not enough, so that I can't find a game or can't play all the games I should :rolleyes:. GG everyone; I really believe it is the overpowered Japanese capital that busted everyone ... Had we had 3 or 4 balanced civs on the continent, we would have been much much better off.