http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-2150BC.zip


3850 BC
I better not hear any complaints about enough food at the start.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-686.jpg

I have learned my lesson with RaR and heavy food starts. Jumping ahead of the growth curve to fast with NO military has resulted in to many early deaths. I configure the capitol for heavy shields some quick military. We can make up the growth quick enough.


2630 BC
We meet America, and they have a large tech lead on us.


2510 BC
We really need more contacts. I ship our Math monopoly and $15 to America and get Ritualism. We can't go very far in the trading game without more contacts.


2430 BC
I meet the Inca whom have the exact same techs as America visible. However, they still need some of our techs. :)
I give them Alphabet and Pottery for Masonry, Boat Building and $13.
I then give the Inca Math and $50 for Cultivation and Warfare.
I switch over to worker housing immediately.


2390 BC
I finally make contact with the mystery pink civ that turns out to be Ethiopia. We are close to deal, but nothing happens.


2310 BC
It is now real surprise that Ethiopia no longer wants math. The tech was to devalued IMO.

==========================


Summary:
Writing comes in 1 turn and should a monopoly tech. :D




RaR - simply space
Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov (currently playing)
Romeothemonk (on deck)
Sanabas
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination.

I would prefer to win with the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

This is the first dot map attempt. There is way too much desert to the north, so getting any quality site will be hard.
I only see 3 clear sites for the moment.
Red dot - it has a rice tile for growth, and decent shields from the mountains.
Yellow dot - it is on a river, some hills, and the plains after irrigation at least give us a few more shields.
Grey dot - it is on a river, nearby shield tiles, and could share the bonus food with the capitol if needed.
Mystery dot - I want something that claims those furs.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-687.jpg

Checking In. I would suggest the Red dot first, then re-evaluate. I will play by the war rules I posted in LK96. Based on our opponents I will say that we should hopefully see no early wars.
There is plenty of food in our start, but I might be concerned with Disease.

Got it - will play tomorrow.

Checking In. I would suggest the Red dot first, then re-evaluate. I will play by the war rules I posted in LK96. Based on our opponents I will say that we should hopefully see no early wars.
There is plenty of food in our start, but I might be concerned with Disease.
I agree on red dot first.

There is food galore with the flood plains overload. The problem will be shields. Why do you think my only suggestions so far have hills and mountains nearby?

That was actually my concern with red dot. I'd like to put it on an FP so it can work that mountain to its north. I know, we lose some shields short term, but we'd get them back in spades in the long, and this is a long-term game, right?

With all these rivers, we could approach a record tech pace - and good job picking opponents, they are all relatively weak in the early game, though Inca doesn't always stay that way.

...good job picking opponents, they are all relatively weak in the early game, though Inca doesn't always stay that way.
Thank the RnG. There were all pure random opponents.


I'd like to put it on an FP so it can work that mountain to its north. I know, we lose some shields short term, but we'd get them back in spades in the long, and this is a long-term game, right?
This is very much a long-term game. I am just worried that we have more cities then just the capitol that can build stuff early on. All the long-term planning is meaningless if we are wiped off the map early on.

If we move red dot 1 north, what do we do with yellow dot. Red dot would really overlap the capitol along with gray dot and may challenge us to hit 15 squares worked in the capitol. We can't have red dot choked by a city two away on the other side.

While this is a longterm gain, we must also plan for the immeadiate. I really like the Red Dot city to be our military producer in the mounted age. I would even go so far as to name it Pike City. :)

I like to have an early city that can share the capital's good tiles when it loses pop to build clans, but am aware that you do not share this view. I don't think red dot will be disastrous - in the medium term, it should be an outstanding city, and on Deity, that's the term that matters, so I'll settle there. Will be playing later today.

After red dot, I'd say we need to settle toward the sea to get oars in the water in case we can make some overseas contacts.

We should see more of the map at that point, and that is what matters to me. I want to know the best way to get to the furs, as well as how fast we need to push out settlers to get to the prime spots closer to Ethiopia. Hopefully we get scrape mining soon so we can see iron.

After red dot, I'd say we need to settle toward the sea to get oars in the water in case we can make some overseas contacts.


I think I forget to post, but this is a Pangaea. However, you don't know if it is a false Pangaea.

Pre-flight: wow, we’re down nine techs to the Americans, including writing. I know the thinking behind early defense, but a think a scout or two first is almost a must.

2110BC: Writing comes in – Abe already has it, Ethiopia and Inca have identical techs – both up 7. We ship Writing to Ethiopia for Urbanization and 50 gold. Writing and 40 gold goes to Inca for the crucial Domestication, revealing a Camel in Seoul’s borders! But its on a desert, so not so good. :sad:If only we were playing the Malinese on this map – all that desert would be good! There is, however, the uber-powerful FP camel to Seoul’s NE.

1990BC: Seoul:TG->Clan. Pyongyang founded, building WH. Another problem with founding on the hill is it has no non-mountain tiles to work that produce shields. We contact Caesar to the east. We trade him Math for Fermentation. Fermentation gets us Slavery from Ethiopia and 40 gold from Inca. Writing, Slavery, and 40 gold gets us Scrape from Caesar. Only iron in sight is in second ring of an Ethiopian city.

1870BC: Caste comes in, Dyna in 13.

1790BC: Abe gets Dyna, reducing our cost to 9 turns.

1750BC: We contact Carthago – purchase weaving from him for 50+1gpt, and we have sheep people! Lots of good land out there, lets settle it! Get sailing from Makeda for weaving.

Boys and girls, we lack the resources for early war even if we were tempted. We do not, however, lack for the resources to win this baby economically. Just need to get her settled, and fast.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK-1750BC.JPG

I'd suggest a monster settler factory city in the middle of the sheep that uses the Oasis to get up to pop. Let Seoul work a couple hills with rice to make some units.

My attempt at a dotmap
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/dotmaplk97.jpg

I like the black dot first as a settler factory, then snag red and blue. Teal could be settled later.

I know the thinking behind early defense, but a think a scout or two first is almost a must.
After suffering several losses with a high food start I feel early units are a must. I have had to many false starts with RaR due to this.

Don't forget our big advantage of Korean Wiseman. This should be a very early build for us. They cost a mere 40 shields, have no maintenance costs, and boost science by 50%. We can also build the cheap counselors in city with corruption to recover money for tech speed.

We still need to scout around the furs to determine the city location.

I agree with Romeothemonk's dot map for the northeast.

Black dot is by far the number one goal. A mined sheep hill after we revolt will be unreal for productively.

After that I would like some variation of yellow dot to be the next city. Gold gives us to many buildings including the uber-economic building of Smith's. The AIs tend to expand toward the human and we need to decide on this one quickly. I realize my proposal is off the river, but I see no easy want to also snag the silver. Silver would give us another natural luxury, and you can't have enough of them.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-690.jpg

RaR - simply space
Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk (currently playing)
Sanabas (on deck)
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

I like the yellow dot as a second city. I got it and will play after LK94.

Yellow dot is indeed important - let's skim a clan from Pyongyang before WH to make sure we get it. Red is also crucial, as FP Camels are huge. Lets get the black and red dot clans from Seoul, then concentrate on units there - that should give black dot time to get up to speed for clan builds.

yellow first, in fact all the spots are crucial, well, we can't have it all immediately. By the way, which government path do we take? democracy or republic? I usually end up in democracy. And I assume we go for philo gamble since AI's simply ignore it.

By the way, which government path do we take? democracy or republic? I usually end up in democracy.
We may turn out to be shield poor and cash rich. I suspect cash rush will benifit us.

Yes, cash rush is essential, and Demo has nice corruption as well. Let's see if we can manage to trade for CoL before Philo comes in, so we can choose Democracy as our free tech.

Definitely democracy. We can trade Philo via big picture before our free tech comes in too if we need to get code of laws that way. Do we want to go straight to a Great Library run after democracy?

Black dot & red dot look good, looking at the map I'd prefer yellow dot on the river to get that clump of hills/mountains. 1 tile W 1st preference, 1 tile SW if W is too close to the AI. The AI can't steal the silver off us as there's nowhere they can found a city, the first foreign worker we buy can colonise the silver.

Definitely democracy. We can trade Philo via big picture before our free tech comes in too if we need to get code of laws that way. Do we want to go straight to a Great Library run after democracy?

As I have putting at the bottom on the game wrap up - I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.


Black dot & red dot look good, looking at the map I'd prefer yellow dot on the river to get that clump of hills/mountains. 1 tile W 1st preference, 1 tile SW if W is too close to the AI. The AI can't steal the silver off us as there's nowhere they can found a city; the first foreign worker we buy can colonize the silver.
Good point on being able to found a city. Going 1 west will put us in cultural overlap. I can accept 1 southwest, as that was the original spot I thought of.
Yellow dot is moved.

As I have putting at the bottom on the game wrap up - I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.


From the first post of the thread: I would prefer to win with the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

:) Damn tyops.

No GLs sounds good to me.

From the first post of the thread:

:) Damn tyops.

No GLs sounds good to me.


Yes, missing the "out" in without was a biggie.

It would be interesting to stick to required techs and see how many non-reqs we can trade for.

It would be interesting to stick to required techs and see how many non-reqs we can trade for.

While interesting, I don't think it is feasible. The optional techs are often the big trading materials that the AI ignore.

Will hope to have this played and posted tonight. Settle my black dot first then the moved yellow dot.

Will hope to have this played and posted tonight. Settle my black dot first then the moved yellow dot.

Actually, I think it is moved yellow dot first unless the two settlers are really close. I think yellow is the higher risk of the AI stealing.

I'd say settle them simultaneously - with a clan from Pyong going to yellow - may require a couple Jomons short turn to make sure they are covered until TG's can be built.

Comp crash ate my log.
Highlights:
We are a monarchy. We know everyone. Greece owns the Tech Race. Mongols are fighting Rome and Carthage. Philo is still a monopoly tech. Planted Carson City to get gold and silver.
Our cities grow like mad, we really need mining to get us some shields. But I really don't need to tell you something you already know. :p
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-1500BC.SAV

We continue to move forward and have our first important resource of Gold. Next up is the luxury of sheep. I won't try and guess why this will make our people happy. Now we need to figure out where to put the furs city.

Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk
Sanabas (currently playing)
ThERat (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

Got it. Lamb chops for all make everyone happy I'm sure.

I think we need to be careful with city placement, given that deserts cannot be settled. We could fit 3 decent cities on the patch where Carson is - especially one to grab the dyes and incense on that hill, but with Carson in the center of the patch, this is more difficult. We did the same thing in Bez1 with Sheeptown.

Mountains are much more valuable in RandR (two extra shields), especially with FP's nearby to feed them, and now we'll not be able to work that silver mountain at all. I know y'all don't like moving cities, but Carson could build some workers/clans for a while until we feel secure enough to move him...

Didn't like these turns much. We missed philo, which has put us very behind on tech. We need to work out where our next 2 cities go too.

1500BC: All good, I switch Pyongyang to a hardy pioneer for the furs, as they're in the middle of the jungle.

1425BC: Greece has philosophy. smeg. :mad:

1400BC: We have philosophy, so do America & Carthage.
Pusan founded
Trade philo to the rest of the world, we get Code of Laws, Trade, Bronze working, Wheel, Construction, Naval War, Mysticism, Mythology, we're behind Greece, America & Carthage
Start researching Democracy

Up to 1250BC: not much, kept exploring, connected the camels, built settler escorts. Hardy pioneer has just been built for the furs, Seoul has a pioneer due in 2, probably for the flood plain camel to the NE. Democracy is due in 2, so far nobody but greece has it, so we should be able to get back close to tech parity again with smart trading, as there's plenty of techs that we can play middleman on.

What about the Sheep? I like Wool socks for our people.
Bez, the Carson city site was under much discussion earlier. I took LK's intial spot and moved it 1 SW as Sanabas and LK agreed.
We can get 1 or 2 turn workers from Seoul which I would consider.
On Diety I prefer not to build hardy settlers, and just use the regular ones, as food doesn't limit us, but shields do.
We need workers to mine Seoul ASAP.

I know y'all don't like moving cities, but Carson could build some workers/clans for a while until we feel secure enough to move him...
I am not sure what to do here. We have gone with the discussion and dot mapping plan to avoid these type of issues. The reason for this placement was to get on the river, and it makes sense. I don't plan to move it. However, with Construction in our hands a few workers couldn't hurt.

Outside of delaying the game between every round to have every body agree on the dot map, I don't know what to do to avoid this.

On Deity I prefer not to build hardy settlers, and just use the regular ones, as food doesn't limit us, but shields do.
On this map regulars really make more sense. The only thing to watch is some terrain is blocked for regulars movement - I can't recall what terrain.

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk
Sanabas
ThERat (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

This may sound cruel and such, but I would let an AI settle near or on the Furs for us, then we raze his city using mameluks or camel riders. Then we use our camel advantage to keep them from touching our core, and we plant a regular settler on the rubble. IIRC, regular settlers can travel through the jungle, they just cannot settle on it.
This is a long term plan, ~100 turns from now, but it is worth putting out there. I would rather get all the insane food boni spots on rivers first, then worry about furs. But that is just my play style, food first, military second, lux and resources third.

got it, tomorrow or saturday morning

Regular settlers can not move through jungle, marsh or mountains.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-1000BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
will follow romeo's dot map

1. 1225BC
next turn democracy, will revolt, so rush 2 workers this turn

IT get democracy

2.1200BC
democracy to Ethiopia for aristocracy and 75g
democracy to carthage for iron working
3 techs to Rome for civil engineering
revolt and we get 4 turns anarchy

3.1175BC
nth

4 1150BC

5 .1125BC
Roman warriors block our fur spot

6.1100BC
we are a democracy now and have sheeps connected
research full steam for poetry, no AI has it yet

IT Ethiopia demands 25g, cave

7.1075BC
Cheju next to furs founded

8.1050BC
zzzz

9.1025BC
zzzz

10.1000BC
:dance: we have a monopoly tech and next player MUST get as many techs as possible out of this
drama is next in 4 turns
keep on settling as long as we can, but we need more units


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk791000.jpg

The city placement comment was more for future consideration, as this is twice in my games where we've settled without considering the ramifications of never being able to settle on deserts the whole game. Looks like we'll have enough land in this game, or can take enough, for it not to matter.

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Bezhukov (on deck)
Romeothemonk
Sanabas
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

It does look like we may have to delay the game before each city placement. The placement of the furs city is very bad. Jungle is normally 2 food and 1 shield. Fur increases this to 3 food and 2 shields. The best food tiles were the water tiles.

The yellow dots with the current placement are the 4 even food tiles.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-700.jpg

If I move the city one tile SE, the yellow dots are the 6 even food tiles, and white dot is a bonus food tile.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-701.jpg

This really affects the ability of that city to grow and produce the revenue needed for the tech race. I see this city as a temp placeholder, and don't plan have the city build another beyond workers and MP.

Yeah, bascially I never build a city one tile off the coast. This is especially important on RandR, with the availability of fisheries, ports, and the like.

The one positive is that we now have a grass tile where we didn't before! :)

yah, I missed a dot map and then followed Romeo's original one, sorry for that. we should later resettle the land once we have no other place to expand. at least we secured the furs :(

Here's my suggestions. Most of the good land seems already taken. The buffalo and exotic wood are nice. I think we can take our time claiming the dyes.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Southeast.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Southwest.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Northeast.JPG

Also looks like Rome is coming for a visit. Pls get a unit in Nampo - empty cities cause declarations. We can give the Oasis to the sheeptown to get his pop up fast - Seoul has more food than he can eat already.

I saw the dot maps to late, as I just played.

=============================

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-750BC.zip


1000 BC
Greece offers the best deal, and I ship them Poetry for Polytheism and $70.
I ship the Inca Poetry and $60 for Monotheism.
I ship Ethiopia Poetry and $15 for Seafaring.
I ship the Mongols Poetry and $20 for Riding.


975 BC
I hate when one turn later all the civs that had nothing to offer you for a tech all get it.


950 BC
(IT) America completes the Hanging Gardens.
I watch Rome and America fight.


900 BC
(IT) I give the Roman bully $23 to go away.


875 BC
Greece is already in the Middle Ages. I can't believe how much they are running away at the moment.

We have another monopoly tech to trade with Drama. :dance:
I ship Greece Drama for Classical Education and $80.
I ship Carthage Classical Education for Elephant Training and $7. If we even get elephants is the big question.
I ship America Drama and $100 for Currency.
I ship Carthage Currency for Military Training.
I ship the Mongols Currency for Barding.
I sell the Inca Drama for $47.
I sell Rome Drama and Currency for $25 and Republic. I realize we don't want Republic, but I hate seeing the same tech constantly in the trade screen. ;)

We pretty much have tech parity and head to the Middle Ages. We get the standard Dark Ages as our free tech. This is where being scientific gets screwed.
(IT) With our pathetic military I give Carthage Drama.
The Inca complete Stonehenge.


825 BC
Hyangsan is formed. This is one east of the original dot map by RTH. However, we didn't know about the dyes at that time. In addition, I am trying to limit the cultural overlap with Ethiopia. It starts a monument immediately to build some local culture.


750 BC
I build a silver colony.


==========================


Summary:
Vassalage is due in 2 turns. Greece went for Invention first, so we have a good chance for a monopoly tech.
Our big goal is crop rotation so that we can start irrigating.

We are still somewhat in farmer's gambit mode, and we really need to start on military soon. Carson City looks like a good location for barracks and more units.


Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov (currently playing)
Romeothemonk (on deck)
Sanabas
ThERat

Cheju is a temporary city to be replaced once the good spots are settled. Please don't develop this city. The growth gained by moving 1 tile SE is too much to ignore.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

The follow are my new suggested cities.
Red dot isn't great for shields, but the fish tile will be awesome for food with a harbor.
Purple dot claims the 2 kelp for bonus a food and shield.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-702.jpg


This is the area I am baffled what to do. White dot would be great, but it steals the needed water tiles from blue dot and wastes the black lined area. However, I think we will only get to claim one spot by Rome.

An alternate would be yellow dot first, followed by gray dot. This would avoid some of the wastage. Yellow dot would need to be first. This would put is in culture conflict with Rome, and I suspect yellow dot would be weaker. I am open to team ideas for this one.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-703.jpg

Agree on the NE map, and I like yellow, gray & blue on the S map. No wastage that way, and we have to go to war eventually, it just means Rome is the first target. They were the weakest of the AI's on tech on my turns, so they're a decent first choice anyway.

In the NW by carson city, I can see plains at the opposite edge of the desert, a city there can take the incense & dyes, don't know the AI position and what culture clash we'll have.

On the tech tree, all our cities are food rich, so I don't think crop rotation is a priority tech. Engineering is the one the AI usually takes longest to get of the post-feudalism techs, I'd like to see us beeline for that and get a monopoly.

I concur that engineering is the priority tech this game. With all the rivers in our territory, it would be really handy to not have to stop for all of them all the time.

Pre-flight: Good thing that Rome and Persia are burning off their extra units on one another, though I say an early war coming out of a farmer’s gambit on Deity without iron would be suicidal for us and gain us little. Let’s check the wonder/possible GA situation: MoM gets our sci trait – being built by Greece and Carthago. Hmmm.

Full shield box on pioneer in Pusan, but he lacks the pop – this is double weedish. He needs the pop to crank major shields. Switch to forge in 1. Pusan will be building many wonders for our people. We do have more workers about than I feared would be the case – could still use some more. Nampo is still empty! Folks, we just can’t leave empty cities to tempt Rome like this on Deity! :sad: Hate to lose the worker, but nam gets an MP.

730BC: Pusan:forge->shrine (preparing for slave market), Nampo: warrior->worker

710BC: Cheju:worker->warrior. Four civs already know Vassalage. Vassalage to Abe for Invention and Horse Breeding. Horse Breeding to Ethiopia for Monasticism and 8 gold. Horse Breeding to Carthago for Lateen. Vassalage and 100 gold to Alex for Lit. That last was probably a waste, as nothing to trade lit for. :blush:

There are horses between Ethiopia and Incas. Alex already has Milling, but trading for it was insulting. Alex must be GA’ing, as is Caesar, judging by the 6 Legions I see milling about.

690BC: Seoul: Spear->Slave Market. Ulsan founded by the sea. Inca now has Milling, and also Vassalage, which he got from us, free of charge.

670BC: Pusan:shrine->slave market, chicken out and switch Seoul to forge, once we get the luxes hooked, he needs a slave market.

Was so tempted to grab that exotic wood spot, but would put too much cultural pressure on GA’ing Rome, head for yellow dot.

650BC: Pyong:pioneer->hmmm, I would like to skootch him one more tile SW to grab the incense, crowd Seoul less, and let him work the mined hill. He has no improvements and only one pop. We need one more settler at grey dot, so send him on his way. Nampo is finally on the road network, but he’s in a difficult place too, with very few shields to work.

Pls get slave markets up once the furs are online. Dyes will also help and we’ll be able to trade for more soon. Yellow dot is in place and ready to settle. Grey on his way. Lots of MM opportunities, could make the difference.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK-650.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK-6502.JPG

A couple of things.
1) I like pyongyang where it sits, personal style preference.
2) Lit was not worthless as it allows 40 shield libraries.
3) Good call on the military build in Nampo. Maybe my style is rubbing off a litte. Or you just hate undefended cities. :)
4) I highly suspect Greece is golden aging and is going to become the monster in this game. I would use judicious warring in his general direction in about 80-100 turns with our handy little UU.
5) I don't believe exotic wood is a luxury, so I do not see the giant rush to get it.
6) I got it.
7) Will produce more workers in my turn set. I would like to add at least 5.

On the tech tree, all our cities are food rich, so I don't think crop rotation is a priority tech. Engineering is the one the AI usually takes longest to get of the post-feudalism techs, I'd like to see us beeline for that and get a monopoly.

I concur that engineering is the priority tech this game. With all the rivers in our territory, it would be really handy to not have to stop for all of them all the time.

Good point on the food. The cities will eventually benefit from irrigation. However, it will be awhile before we can support that large of size. Getting rid of the river slow down would be nice.

The question is how soon before enough of the AIs research a Middle Age tech to justify having the monopoly?

IMHO, we have sufficient lands at the present for our purposes. A few more settlers here and there to fill in some gaps (like grabbing the SW dyes) wouldn't hurt. But we have some very productive city sites. Ethiopia's UU is an extra defense spear with def bombard, so war that direction could be painful. Rome is GA'ing and cranking out the legions, so that way ain't so hot. Abe might be the way to go, as Rome has been killing some of his units for us.

We should have salt in our lands, and its not too far to metalurgy, so hwatchout! :lol:

I went toward engineering on team advice. We'll have milling in one.

Vassalage and 100 gold to Alex for Lit. That last was probably a waste, as nothing to trade lit for. :blush: We will need to build libraries for a good tech race. I am glad to have the tech.


Full shield box on pioneer in Pusan, but he lacks the pop – this is double weedish. He needs the pop to crank major shields.
It isn't to often I get the weed award. :sad: :sad:


We do have more workers about than I feared would be the case – could still use some more. I skimmed during my turn, as we were really short with even more towns coming. I agree we need more. I would let the furs city keep producing them when possible. Until we are ready to move it we may as well get more labor from it. At least one of our high food towns should be build a worker at all times. We have quite a few time consuming mountains to improve to get shields for our empire.

I realize that I didn't stress the disadvantage of grey and yellow dot being challenge for city size, but it is to late to comment on that. I think we will be challenged to get up to size 15 cities in several locations.

I will take a look at the game for the next round of dot map suggestions. We may still have a little to grab in the south.

Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk (currently playing)
Sanabas (on deck)
ThERat

Cheju is a temporary city to be replaced once the good spots are settled. Please don't develop this city. The growth gained by moving 1 tile SE is too much to ignore.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

Rome should be able to keep Alex under control. Half of Alex's land is tundra.

I took a look at the game.
1) :confused: I have no idea why Bezhukov only played 5 turns. RTH, can you please play 15 turns to get it back even?
2) Please swap Hyangsan back to the monument I started. That city will be under culture pressure from Ethiopia at some point and we really need some local culture. The counselor is useless if we lose the city.
3) I consider the northern purple dot a lost cause with an Ethiopian settler up there. In addition, the Ethiopian culture borders are no longer good for us to settle there.
4) Are we planning on getting Angkor Wat? A free shrine in every city would really help our culture rating. It would also stop an AI Civ from becoming a run away culture monster.
5) We are getting close to Feudalism. Don't forget we will want to sell all the worker housings and upgrade to level 2 workers for free.
6) IMHO the expansion phase has ended. The area south of the furs city is filled. The current settler should claim grey dot, and the new settler should move furs city.
7) We need to pick a city to crank out military. If nothing else our homeland defense should be upped to all Asian spearman in all cities. We need to improve the military rating to discourage AI games.

Roger on all counts LK. In the future please use RTM, or Jake instead of RTH. It really confused me for a bit. I would like to get 1 more production enhancer or 2 in Seoul, then hit the build Angkor Wat button, hopefully with a side of the pyramids for good luck, or fallback.
Will play 15, probably tonight or tomorrow morning.

Wait a minute - I thought I played ten, let me finish my set then. Was thinking ten year turns instead of twenty.

Speaking of weedage! :lol:

IBT: We get milling. We'll never get engineering first at eight turn research, and if we're going for Angkor and military build-up we don't have the shields to improve sci dramatically short term, so take Theology in 6 (this will improve a bit).

Seoul:forge->shrine in 2 (21 spt), then slave market, then Angkor, Pusan:Slave Market->barracks, Nampo:worker->worker, Carson:forge->shrine (same drill as Seoul).

Greece gets MoM in Corinth.

630 BC: Have second thoughts about encroaching on Rome in our weakened state, move yellow dot back one. Send settler back toward south.

610BC: Cheju:warrior->worker, swap Carson to Slave Market, as furs are hooked. Hyangsan working forests to get monument in 5, per LK.

590BC: Seoul:shrine->slave market, Carson:slave market->shrine

Hyansan riots, as he's not connected yet.

570BC: Seoul: Slave Market->HE (placeholder for Angkor), Pyong:worker->slave market, Pusan:Camel Rider (in two on growth)

IBT: Ethiopia gets Oracle. And is building Angkor, everyone else cascades to Slave Trade. Greeks get Lighthouse - no cascade there.

550BC: We get Theology, no trade opportunities. I think we'll be getting the widely known discount for a while. Pusan is grabbing the mountain to get the Rider a turn early - we need something with power to ward off the AI, but hopefully we can get him to 30 spt soon to make one-turn spears. May be worth it to research stirrup for War Camels, there is nothing invested in Engineering yet, so go for it.

Taking the time to swap the Oasis back and forth between Pusan and Seoul to avoid food wastage is worth it, as it allows both to grow while working high-shield tiles.

BTW, Rome is at war with Abe, so those units in our territory are likely only taking the shortest route to war and not going for us. We're not a sweet enough target for Roman intentions if he is already at war.

Got it this time.

IBT: We get milling. We'll never get engineering first at eight turn research, and if we're going for Angkor and military build-up we don't have the shields to improve sci dramatically short term, so take Theology in 6 (this will improve a bit)

I had a quick look at the 650BC save, I think we were an excellent chance of getting engineering as a monopoly. Haven't looked at the 550 save, but I suspect we're still a very good chance of getting it as a monopoly, and we're almost guaranteed to get it with plenty of trade value. After milling, the AI tends to research feudalism, clockworks, sci method & about 8 other techs before it goes for engineering. I really hate following the bulk discount path on the tech tree, I usually find it makes our techs drop further & further behind the leaders.

I took a look at the game.
Why are we pushing our luck with demands? The AI could easily demand $60 and cost us a building and or unit. I don't understand why I have to keep bringing this up in games.

Bezhukov, where is the settler southwest of Cheju going? That area is far too crowded for a Korea city to be snuck it.
Romeo, I suggest this settler be used to move Cheju one square southeast.

I can't believe the Ethiopian settler bypassed the kelp area. Coastal cities are great for income, so I would like to build white dot.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-704.jpg

I am still looking at the situation with Inch'on. With moving it one closer I really can't figure out if gray dot is a waste of time on the surface. We would wind up with 3 cities really crammed together.

You can't use that settler to move Chenju, as this would require a hardy. Once Chenju is moved, another city (not on the coast) will fit decently between Inchon and Seoul. Beggars can't be choosers, and at Deity, we're definitely beggars. Ethiopia sent a total of three settlers pairs up there during my turn, and all three decided against it. Definitely need to grab that spot.

Sanabas, all the techs you mentioned are already widely known. At least Caesar and Alex and maybe more have ridden their (30 turn) GA's to an insane tech pace. With our cheap sci builds, we will recover, unles we sink all our shields into an ill-considered early offensive.

I have never had more than 30 gold demanded at once. We had one demand on our turn - the Inca's demanded Vassalage. LK, your risk averse strategy would have cost us three turns of research that would leave us even further behind. Cost/benefit again.

I looked at the save. Where the setler sits might be a little tight, but if it worries you, he could build one tile north, and bring several bg's into our borders, with very little overlap. We should have decent culture, especially if we get Angkor, so what's the downside?

I have never had more than 30 gold demanded at once. We had one demand on our turn - the Inca's demanded Vassalage. LK, your risk adverse strategy would have cost us three turns of research that would leave us even further behind. Cost/benefit again.
Your experience is way different then mine. I have had up to $100 demanded away in a single shot. 50+ and tm has been common for me.
Don't forget having 2 different civs demand things the same turn. I have suffered double and even triple demands in a single turn.

Sorry, but this is one of those agree to disagree issues. You will never convince me this is worth it. I want over $100 in cash before I will go negative research except in AW.


Where the settler sits might be a little tight, but if it worries you, he could build one tile north, and bring several bg's into our borders, with very little overlap.
...
You can't use that settler to move Chenju, as this would require a hardy.

I believe this is what was proposed, and I live with it. I prefer at least 3 spaces between city sites, and we just make it. I don't want to waste the bonus grassland he is sitting on. Our empire is too much food, and to little shields. This start would have been better with an agricultural civ. This works while we wait for the hardy to move Chenju.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-705.jpg

Once Cheju is moved, another city (not on the coast) will fit decently between Inch'on and Seoul. Beggars can't be choosers, and at Deity, we're definitely beggars.
You complained about my "risk averse strategy", yet in this case you were the one that got over cautious. The problem with annoying your neighbors happens if you settler within the 21 potential squares of a city. We were outside of that zone. Rome is useless a horrid civ for culture. We would have completed the monument first and probably held the full 21.

I think decent is the key word here. The city will be too choked by desert and lucky to get to size 8. I think yellow and grey would have been much stronger if we stuck with the dot map. The overlap being the cities is way to high for my taste.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-706.jpg

For all the talk about dot mapping being critical, we still failed to stay on the same page. We still had a lot of problems such as above and Cheju despite the dot mapping.


With our cheap sci builds, we will recover, unless we sink all our shields into an ill-considered early offensive.
This is one statement I fully agree with. Any war for us would be crazy in the short term. When you have warriors defending cities war is a very bad plan.

Sorry bout that LK, was actually trying to be courteous as this is your game and I know how much you son't like fighting for tiles. :blush: Had it just been me, I would have stuck to yellow dot. Oh, well, live and learn. Won't cost too much to move it if desired. Our strength is in our core, the tertiary cities won't come into play for an age and a half.

It looks like I can't really get to this until tomorrow night. If someone wants to jump ahead that is cool. I will stick to the plans outlined above, and mix in a little bit of my own style. I think I will still be in my 48 tomorrow night.

IHT; not much to do, swap Camel rider in Sheeptown to an academy. We need science first.
Turn 1: Carson city will make 3 turn spears for a long time now. Sheeptown has mad commerce, will continue science buildings there. Carthage gives us 54 gold and athletics for Theology.
Turn 2: Greeks build Colossus, Ethiopia builds Silk road. Build Pyongsang at LK's brown dot. We can build the FP now.
Turn 3: Carson city needs a rax. Whoops, I normally don't make that booboo.
Turn 4: not much
Turn 5: Sheeptown gets a windmill, starts a wiseman. This was kinda Weedy to not have this earlier. Rome builds the Great Wall. Mounted archery from carthage for milling.
Turn 6: We get engineering, it is a monopoly. Yay. Trading time. Get Naval spirit, warrior code, and clockworks from Greece for 20 gold and engineering. Naval spirit gets us a worker from the inca. Engineering and naval spirit gets us Sci method from Rome. Engineering gets us stirrup and 75 gold from Ethiopia. Set research to castle building. INca build Slave trade, and Ethiopia builds sun Tzus. Engineering and Sci method gets us Feudalism and 13 gold from the INca. As usual Feudalism really hoses our MM. Sell the worker housings, swap carson city to a mill instead of a rax. Pusan goes to a 1 turn counselor.
Turn 7: More of the same
Turn 8: Ditto. Nampo is a very nice worker pump.
Turn 9: Get fundamentalism from Carthage for Sci method and engineering? ( I don't remember).
Turn 10: We get castle building at monopoly. Greece decides to give us crop rotation, a worker and 80 gold for it. CB and 70 gold gets us heraldry from Ethiopia. Heraldry and CB get us Usury from America. Research to Siege warfare. It should be a monopoly Tech.
I MMed A bit, but all builds are flexible. Pusan should get our FP after it gets an academy. We need more science doublers period. I really increased our Science, and only had to give away 27 gold. This was a peaceful builder set, and this game should remain that way for a while. I got 5 native workers and 2 slaves. Our worker force is almost decent. Pusan needs a lot of work though. With Angkor wat, Our culture should be semidecent. I think Seoul needs a production enhancer, than start on the KT. I love the KT as a wonder. It will give us some desperately needed culture and offensive type units. I also believe that is generates tourism.
Enjoy.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97-1.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-350BC.SAV

By MM a bit I mean that I maximize for food with the builds completing in the same time. The Koreans are a very powerful race in RaR. I am impressed.

With Angkor Wat, Our culture should be semi decent.
I agree that helps a lot. The scary thing is Ethiopia has the 2nd best culture rating in the game. We will need to keep working on culture where possible. Our science push should emphasis the culture generating buildings such as libraries first.


Turn 8: Ditto. Namp'o is a very nice worker pump.
That is a phrase I always like to hear. :D
Lets keep it that way for a long time.


I think Seoul needs a production enhancer, than start on the KT. I love the KT as a wonder. It will give us some desperately needed culture and offensive type units. I also believe that is generates tourism.
Sorry, but no tourism from this wonder.


Cheju must still be moved and that needs a hardy. I don't want to keep that city around must longer alternating between peasant and warrior. Regular warriors are waste for us at this point. Let's find a city for a hardy and move this city so that we can start developing it. If we plan to build gray dot it should be done quickly. In addition, we are wasting the free border expansion if we leave the city in the old spot.


My big concern is military. We can't keep ignoring it. We must get into military building soon to discourage AI attacks. Carson City was in a perfect position for every other turn Asian spearman. Instead it is on another production booster. 15 shields were perfect. With all the boasters we hit 22 shields before growth affects things. That gains us nothing.
Romeo, what was your game plan here? I am stumped why the production boaster rather then getting some decent defense in our cities.



Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk
Sanabas (currently playing)
ThERat (on deck)

Cheju is a temporary city to be replaced once the good spots are settled. Please don't develop this city. The growth gained by moving 1 tile SE is too much to ignore.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-707.jpg

My other big concern is that we seem to getting into a rut of automatically mine flood plains. I suspect several of our cities can't hit size 15 without some irrigation. However, my real concern is Carson City. The above picture shows *1* total spare food. The workers in the red circle are MINING. WT?????
This city needs irrigation to grow.


One other thing we need to start watching is happiness. We have several cities right at the edge, and nothing is being built to fix the situation.

My concerns were all over the place this turnset. I could only get 10 spt from carson city, then it dropped to 9 at decent growth. I swapped it to heavy shields to get 1 more booster into it. The reaon of heavy boosters was to slow growth that we couldn't handle at the moment and give us production that we would need later on.
Carson city was on 9 spt after feudalism. I picked up crop rotation, but irrigation was not an issue as growth was outstripping shields almost everywhere. I made plentiful use of the mountains by Pusan to do some massive MM tricks alternating between rabid growth and uber shields. I see no need to irrigate yet, but could be convinced soonish. (~20 turns) We need to road everything and get some more basic infra up, such as granaries and libraries as well as the full complement of production enhancers. The Tech pace is very rapid with Ethiopia and Greece both doing 2-3 turn techs.

We need to road everything and get some more basic infra up, such as granaries and libraries as well as the full complement of production enhancers.
I am much more worried ability military. IMO we are still in farmer's gambit mode with cities having 1-defense units and the AI having 4 attack units. This is inviting a disaster soon. The more I play RaR, the more I am convinced early military growth is critical and we have totally ignored it this game.

Seoul can crank out 1 turn spears after Angkor Wat. We could also try and throw up the pyramids in Seoul instead, and have Pusan do some 1 turn spears.
Both are acceptable plans by me.

Got it. I should get chenju moved. Excellent work on Engineering & Castle Building as monopolies.

I would mine FPs in general as well; better irrigate the plains. Helpful for the GA...
And, you should get up the FP in Pusan really fast, inluding the gardens. IIRC in the versions up to 103, the FP is incidentially flagged as tourist attraction :D.

Wow - way to go, Romeo. Didn't think we had any chance of getting Eng first. Alex must have finished his GA. Must have been the sci builds in Pusan. Wiseman was waiting til he could make 20spt to avoid shield wastage. Carson can grab Pyong's rice to goose his growth if necessary. Pyong has plenty of FP's to grow himself.

350BC: All good, our defense looks very thin

330BC: Seoul builds Angkor Wat
Greece & Ethiopia now have all 5 visible techs, including Siege Warfare

310BC: 2 Knights & 2 Elephant Riders move towards our borders, ethiopia may be invading. I switch a couple of builds to defense just in case

290BC: Research Siege Warfare
Trade Castle Building, Heraldry & Usury to Rome for Alchemy, 15 gold & 1 worker
Siege War & Usury to Inca for Scholasticism & 1 gold
Siege War to america for tropical fruit
Scholasticism to america for sugar (couldn't get 2 luxes for 1 tech, so I made them separate deals in case Rome gets far enough to start pillaging)
Mounted Archery to Mongols for 21 gold, they're a distant last in techs
Wool & Camel to Ethiopia for Astronomy & 8gpt
Start research on Gunpowder, planning to go matchlock then metallurgy for our UU and hopefully a monopoly
Alchemy revealed Saltpetre, despite all our desert we don't have any

270BC: Switch some more builds to military as Ethiopia moves closer, Seoul is doing 1 turn spears, Pusan doing 2 turn camel riders/shaolin monks, get Carson city to 21spt by irrigating plains and stalling growth, it does 3 turn camels/monks

250BC: Inca build Pyramids
Astronomy to Rome for Chivalry
Ethiopia are in position to attack, I try one final attempt to avert the war as I really don't want to have it. We give egypt gold, lux & gpt for Guilds, Navigation & Education. Declaring will now cost them plenty
I demand they leave, and they declare. Smeg. And we can't even sign alliances to get some help yet either, we're still a couple of techs away.
Trade Camel & Wool to Greece for Architecture, Saltpetre & 3gpt

IBT: Egypt attack Seoul, we kill 2 knights and lose 2 spears

230BC: Kill 2 elephants

IBT: Our scout is killed

210BC: zzz

IBT: Lose 1 spear, and Seoul's Camel is pillaged. Our trade deal is still intact, we don't have camels until we can rebuild that road

190: Kill 1 Horse Archer, 1 Swordsman

IBT: Lose 1 spear, kill 1 horse archer

170: Inca builds Voyage of Discovery
Kill 1 Elephant

150BC: Research Gunpowder ---> Matchlock
Carthage builds Shangri La
Kill 1 Horse Archer

We can reattach Seoul's camel next turn, worker pump, infra & forbidden palace plans all went out the window to build & short rush military. I got Pusan to 40spt and started a guildhall, everyone else is still on military & very short of infra. Carson City & Seoul will improve hugely with production boosters. We've fought off the initial wave, it will be difficult to go on the offensive, Egypt's UU is 3 defense with bombard, our best attackers are only strength 4.

I would get peace ASAP with Ethiopia. We do not want or need war with them. We should be able to get Peace very shortly. With nice kill ratios like we got peace should be ~40 gold.

We can reattach Seoul's camel next turn; worker pump, infra & forbidden palace plans all went out the window to build & short rush military.
Survival always takes priority. Once the war is over I do want the FP built. Get the worker pump back on-line. Get that hardy to move Cheju out.

However, I want to keep at least once city building military at this point. If we got large enough for Ethiopia to notice us, another civ will. We are #3 in territory. We are too large to fly under the AI radar.


I would get peace ASAP with Ethiopia. We do not want or need war with them. We should be able to get Peace very shortly. With nice kill ratios like we got peace should be ~40 gold.

I agree 100% on ASAP peace. After we sign peace we will still need to continue improve the military. An offensive at this time doesn't make sense.


Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk
Sanabas
ThERat (currently playing)

Cheju is a temporary city to be replaced once the good spots are settled. Please don't develop this city. The growth gained by moving 1 tile SE is too much to ignore.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

Any chance of grabbing that Ethiopian iron and/or horses before peace? Looks like we could maybe even sneak a settler up there to settle next to the iron and wouldn't have to take any cities. With our culture, we could keep it from flipping long enough to get some pike builds started at least.

Do we have stirrup yet? (allowing war camels = unmodded knights, plus I believe one more hp than Shaolins)

Yep, also agree on ASAP peace. Carson City should get FP, Pusan can build it quicker but is next door to Seoul. The hardy settler is due in 3 or 4 turns I think. Could be wrong, but I thought there was desert on our side of the iron, so we can't settle it. Pretty sure their horses are out of our range. Don't know if we have stirrup, camel riders & shaolin monks were definitely our best offensive units. Camel Riders are 4.3.2, are you thinking of them? I thought war camels were a similar level to cavalry, and come with repeating rifle.

Carson City should get FP; Pusan can build it quicker but is next door to Seoul.
Can Carson City become a shield powerhouse? I have found in RaR you want a size 15 city with lots of shields for the FP. That is more important than distance. We still have 2 more FP type buildings along with counselors, local courthouses and echelon to help with corruption. Not to mention WLTKD.

LK is correct. Pusan would be my vote for FP and gardens to follow.

Carson City, Pusan & Seoul can all be powerhouses. Need to actually look at the save, but the floodplains will provide food and there are a couple of mountains & hills at Carson City. Looking at the picture in this thread, I count roughly 45 food and 32 shields before RR at size 15, if we chop the two forests, irrigate all the plains & a couple of FPs and get the rice off pyongyang.

*edit* Just did a similar count off the pictures in this thread, I get 45 shields in Pusan at size 15. My preference is still Carson City, with Pusan to get summer or winter palaces if there's nowhere better, but building FP in Pusan won't hurt much. Pusan will be an excellent wonder city regardless, mills + guild hall will give it about 100spt, and it can use palace for a prebuild.

sanabas, well played through a rough ride, though I think you mixed up Egypt and Ethyopia in your logs, you meant to say you got some techs with them before they declared? great value then.

I hope we can go for peace soonish and maybe grab a piece or so before going for peace. Then FP (where???, still not settled, but don't forget there is still summer and winter palace coming) and resettling.

oh, yeah, got it, tonight

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-50AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
ok, what's up for the next turns
peace with Ethiopia, move Cheju to blue dot and FP in Pusan

increase science a notch and matchlock in 7, swap Pusan to FP in 3 instead of guild hall in 4
there is a worker on our camel and building a camp? thought we want to reconnect it. stop him, but too late for this turn

IT our incense gets pillaged and we lose a jomon against a rider

1.130BC
Ethiopia won't talk
an Ethiopian knight shows up, no way we are going to expand into their territory, just defend an hope for peace
kill 3 units

IT knight attacks our spear at the silver mountain but retreats

2. 110BC
well, the runaway Civ, Greeks know matchlock as well now, we have 4 turns to go
Ethiopia refuses to talk
promote a camel beating a riding archer, cover our dyes that are about to be pillaged
we are building far too many regular units, switch Carson to a rax

IT we are lucky, rider brings down spear to 1 hp then dies
we get FP, next the Gardens, Nampo spear -> pioneer for grey dot

3. 90BC
well, we are lucky, Ethiopia is willing to talk, 40g for peace, maybe we can reduce that
kill 2 more offensive units and we get peace for 20g
war happiness is gone, need to up lux to 10%
sell Ethiopia wool for TM and 8 gpt, we need to help some AI against greece, they are running away tech and culture wise
in a seperate deal sell them furs for 130g and 2gpt (2 lux in 1 deal would give us less?????)

swap Cheyu to a unit that completes next turn, it will be resettled soon
Carson to mill, Hyangsan to Counsellor, Pyongsan to forge

IT Ulsan goes for a harbor to enhance grow

4. 70BC
Ethiopia still does not have matchlock, 2 more turns to go

IT Seoul gets a mill, now at 42spt, go for academy in 1
want to set Inchon for a harbor, but since it's a lake, we can't

5 .50BC
workers go to reconnect incense

IT we get matchlock, wait to see what we can get from Ethiopia first
well Ethiopia finishes KT and greece gets TGL (as if they need it)

6. 30BC
Pusan now going for a few science buildings as well first before production boosters
matchlock and 35g gets us banking from Ethiopia
go for theory of warfare in 7 as nobody has it yet and it will give us at least some powerful units

7. 10BC
carson is now 20spt net and goes for a rax, we need to have some military builds
Greek have PP, luckily didn't go for that since I suspected the AI to go that path
Pyongyang is a 2 turn worker pump for the time being
Cheju will churn out a worker just on time for disbanding

8. 10AD
want to found New Cheju but realise it would disconnect the furs, we need to lay a road first :wallbash:
trade Mongols a tech and get gems

IT we get 3 WLTK days

9. 30AD
trade Rome banking for spices, 30g and 4 gpt

10.1350AD
Pusan and Seoul finished their shield enhancer and are now at 50spt, set to school of scribes each in 1 turn
hope we can reduce science to finish theory of warfare in 2 turns, which is still not known by anyone
Carson city is on a toll house, that can be changed, but it has a rax and can be set for units
Pyongyang is the ideal worker factory cranking out 1 each 2nd turn
roads should be ready next turn so we can abandon Cheju and resettle
there is a settler on the way to grey spot, reaching next turn
started to irrigate at Pyongyang so we can continue that down to Pyongsong

by the way, I would not give greeks the wool once the deal expires, they are running away already
Ethiopia has caught up a little in the culture race (74/43 cpt), I guess our 2 luxes help them

sorry for the delay in resettling due to missing out on the roads


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk9750.jpg

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Bezhukov (on deck)
Romeothemonk
Sanabas
ThERat

Cheju is a temporary city to be replaced once the good spots are settled. Please don't develop this city. The growth gained by moving 1 tile SE is too much to ignore.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

Err, wasn't the reason to move Cheju because it should be coastal? But, that is no salt water:
want to set Inchon for a harbor, but since it's a lake, we can't

Err, wasn't the reason to move Cheju because it should be coastal? But, that is no salt water:

No, it was that it could grow almost twice a large.

sanabas, well played through a rough ride, though I think you mixed up Egypt and Ethyopia in your logs, you meant to say you got some techs with them before they declared? great value then.

Smeg, thought I fixed all the egypt references. Ethiopia are yellowish on my 'puter, I kept writing them down as egypt in my notes, and did the same while typing it. Getting the techs out of them was a last desperate attempt to avoid war, they gave up 3 luxes, 2 resources & a fair bit of cash to declare.

there is a worker on our camel and building a camp? thought we want to reconnect it. stop him, but too late for this turn

That was intentional, I moved 2 normal workers onto the camel that turn, the foreign worker's turn would have been wasted if he roaded, so I mined instead. Doesn't matter. Nice work O/W.

Good work ThERat. I think we ride the peace wagon for a while longer.

Well done, team, in saving us from a war that could have been disastrous. Guess that's why LK wanted us to get some defenses to up. :lol: Curious about the saltpeter situation...

We might want to think twice about sending Ethiopia luxes, as we'll likely be warring with them again in the future - on our terms this time. :hammer:

I am not so sure whether it would be a good idea to fight Ethiopia, since they seem the only one who can match Greece a little, the rest are all hopelessly behind. if we weaken Ethiopia, Greece will simply run away

Talk of war is premature. We should build no offensive units for at least 40 turns. Based on my experience and selfimposed rules, We have no prayer until Artillary, or in this case Hwatcha.
For war, I would go to war with Rome and smack on them. America is also a possibility. We do not want to wrangle with Ethiopia until Tanks in my opinion. We in fact might not even have to wrangle with them at all. We may want to raze 2 or 3 greek cities just to set them back a bit, but that will be 40-50 turns from now.

And we'll be getting iron where?

Not to mention horses, although perhaps with the Hwatcha we can forgo them altogether. Once we manage to secure some salt somewhere, somehow, we need to war with someone to get our GA rolling. Hwatchas will dominate pikes (lethal land bombardment) and become less effective from there, we need to take advantage of this opportunity, if not to secure land, then for resources.

H'wachas are most powerful if used in combination with Artillery, no need to hurry here. Take off HPs with Ari, then kill with H'wachas.
Nevertheless, lacking Iron AND Horses AND Saltpeter is ugly...looks like you need to saddle your Camels soon.

I will Caution peace. My personal war conditions are not met, and I think we would do better Teching nicely. For war, we might do an infantry style war with Line Infantry or Rifles. I would build the Mil Academy as soon as it is availible. That way we can make some infantry armies and slow walk our way to what we want ALA C3C.
That however is still in the future. We want as much science and as many production boosters as we can in our core. I do not believe that Seoul and Pusan are maxed out yet and we would need those two cities on pure military to mount any kind of campaign. I would also want Carson City and at least 1 other city capable of 2 turn units as well.
Warring will also want to be done with Allies.
We should get some Oil with this desert, but we might need to rename this the resourceless Space Quest.

Better Mameluky than good, I always say... :mischief:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-250AD.zip


50 AD
I reset the options to show food and shields on the map. It seems like I have been doing this a lot in my SGs recently.

I don't understand the granary in Namp'o. This was a perfect every other turn worker factory. I swap it back into that mode. If nothing else we can worker merge the slower growing cities up to size ASAP.

My big concern is still military. We have to expend so much effort to keep up with Greece that we have no spare cash for upgrades. We still have way to many older units along with to many regulars.


70 AD
Cheju is move 1 tile to be by the lake.


90 AD
It is time to go trading away Theory of Warfare.
I first ship Rome Matchlock to get a better world map and a worker.

I give Greece Theory of Warfare for Metallurgy and $655. I can upgrade some veteran units. However, I am surprised I have almost nothing to upgrade. Our problem is high unit cost to support regulars.
I ship Theory of Warfare and $95 to Ethiopia for Physics.
I ship the Inca Theory of Warfare and $100 for Map Making.

Even though Greece as Political Philosophy that is my next choice. We have nothing worth heading towards as monopoly tech.


110 AD
I give American banking and $15 to keep him shipping us 2 luxuries along with a better world map.

Paegam is formed and this ends the expansion phase. Any future expansion will come from war or seizing a gap from an AI city raze.
(IT) Giving up a tech like Physics is disgusting, but we are in no position to fight Rome at this point. We would have lost 5 to 6 workers alone to units inside our borders.


170 AD
I send the backwards Mongols Engineering for wm, $6 and a worker.


190 AD
(IT) These demands are really getting annoying. We really need a stronger military so that we can tell them to bite me. For the moment Carthage gets Banking.


230 AD
I ship the Inca Absolutism for the 2 optional techs of Printing Press and Perspective along with wm and $16.

==========================


Summary:
IMO we must keep at least one city on military duty at this point. At the moment that city is Carson City that building enough spearman to get at least 2 veteran spearman into every city. I disbanded the ancient warriors. I couldn't justify even higher GPT outlay for obsolete units.

Laborers are now available. We need to start making the upgrades as we can get a nice block of cash.


Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov (currently playing)
Romeothemonk (on deck)
Sanabas
ThERat

Smith's is coming up soon. IMO Smith's is the ultimate wonder in RaR.
Pusan will have the needed marketplace in place shortly.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

Good point on the Smiths.
I have noticed in RaR that Tribal Guards do not count against the unit count sometimes. If we have any TG's hanging around we should leave them that way until they are ready for a "real" big upgrade.
As Soon as the Market in Pusan finishes I would start the Prebuild.
Since we have absolutism, Any idea on where the Summer Palace should go? I am thinking Carson City after it pumps out more military. Should we upgrade to laborers? Keep cash on hand for tech buys/demands?
Now that we have political philo, I would tell everyone but Ethiopia and Rome to "Take a Hike." I would then buy our ally in against them, and watch the Carnage.

Should we upgrade to laborers?
IMO the extra movement is really valuable. I really like moving to a grassland tile and starting to road the same turn. It also makes then much more mobile.


As Soon as the Market in Pusan finishes I would start the Prebuild.
At that point Magnetism will be completed and we only need two more techs. I don't think all the wonders will finish in that time, as a palace pre-build is only good for 5 turns. It is pretty sad that an Opera House would take longer then a new palace.

Any idea on where the Summer Palace should go?
I am really baffled on that one. All of our high shield cities suffer very little corruption. Between being commercial and the consolers we have very little empire corruption.


I forget to mention this in my report, but next turn Cheju will have its borders expand, and we can swap to the seal for another food and gold piece.

I don't understand the granary in Namp'o. This was a perfect every other turn worker factory. I swap it back into that mode. If nothing else we can worker merge the slower growing cities up to size ASAP.when I inherited the turns, I knew about this worker pump, but maybe it had outgrown that status as it wouldn't grow as fast as pumping workers. I found Pyongyang to be the perfect replacement and wanted Nam'po to grow faster. Do we really need 2 worker pumps? And cities are growing so fast, growth isn't really the issue

Our problem is high unit cost to support regularswell, I noticed during wartime we had built too many of regulars, that's why I built a rax in Carson city to change that. Hope we are in better shape now. Are we building some mameluks (?) to go to attack someone? I noticed, we could attack Darhan (Mongols) at the other end of the lake to grab that salt there. I think we could actually use the lake for naval transport.

Hope we are in better shape now. Are we building some mameluks (?) to go to attack someone?
Not yet, but we should be soon. Carson city was best for smaller shield units - the spearman. We are close to my goal of two spears per city. We will want to start building mameluks ahd Hwachas soon.

LK, I really hate the food and shields on map. It drives me nuts, distracts me, and makes me see more BG's than are really there.
I have problems seeing some colors, and the dots all look the same, and I spend way too much time trying to figure stuff out. I am one of the main culprits on the turning it off.

Got the game - will probably focus on getting infra caught up, as this is what I do best, so the next player can strike effectively if you so choose. Once we can make alliances, wars become much easier. I'd even be in favor of some ganging up on Alex action. Will play tomorrow.

Note: We will want 3 temples. 2 Great wonders that have nice effects/tourism require 3 temples, the SoZ, and the Big Chicken. Both of these are nice. Also we could get three Arenas and build the ridiculusly cheap Circus Maximus, also a nice tourist boost.

Romeo, all three of these will be close to obsolete by the time they are constructed. In fact, I don't believe I've ever seen Chicken built before it was obsolete for me. Playing this evening.

I am just saying as I am playing a very similar game solo. I had a much smaller area, got all three of these wonders at about the same time as we are at now, and they are now dropping insane amounts of tourism into my coffers.
I also got some real good experience with the warring style we will want to use. A Mameluk army is more useful than you might think, but armies covering Line infantry and rifles with some arty is just brutal to the AI. You will rip them apart slowly, and they just cry.

Pre-flight: Tourism is an underrated source of income, but not nearly as lucrative as being alive :lol:, and due to the early Ethiopian attack, the resources we devoted to land grabbing, our lack of early contacts, and our food-rich/shield poor start, this will not be a game that lends itelf to much in the way of tourism income. Not from wonders we build ourselves, that is…

Turn sci up a notch to get Magnetism in 2. Carson is wasting obscene quantities of shields building two-turn spears at 24 spt. Pyong gets the more expensive clock instead of mill in one.

Wow, Caesar won’t give up iron for three techs! Paegam gets a slave market, as he’ll be a nice little unit farm soon, while never producing much commerce. We really need a tech push to get a monopoly tech for resources and alliances.

260AD: Pyong:clock->water mill, Seoul->bazaar->phil school, Pusan: phil school->university, Nampo:laborer->laborer, Chenju:wiseman (culture expansion gets seal)->slave market

270AD: Seoul:phil school->toll house (unit costs are pretty considerable)

We're really paying the price for not building the cheap granaries, as many of our cities are on high food, low production tile distributions to get up to size. I’ll try to help this on the last turn of growth/builds. Carson really needs that rice. Pyongyang can work all his mountains at 7 food, and be a nice unit source.

280AD: I notice that we do have salt, and can build hwatchas. In good time.

Seoul:toll house->guild hall, Ulsan:slave->wiseman. We’re set up nicely for a GA.

290AD: Pusan:University->monastery, Inchon:windmill->granary

300AD: Carson:clock->granary, Ulsan:wiseman->forge

Mercantilism->econ in 5. Smith’s will depend on GA.

310AD: Seoul:guild hall->clock (:smoke: oops, at least we get more tax from hall), pyong:water->wind (then two-turn hwatcha), Pusan:monastery->lab (in 2)

Greece gets Copernicus, no cascade.

Econ goes from 4 to 3. Pusan at 112 beakers.

320AD: Carson:granary->guild hall, Nampo:laborer->laborer, Cheju:slave->forge, Hyang:wind->granary, Inchon:granary->bazaar, Paegam:slave->forge,

Ethiopia gets Leos, two cascades to Bachs.

330AD: Seoul:clock->lab(two turns), Pusan:lab->Royal Tourney (safe pre-build for Smiths), Pyongsong:windmill->duct

Mongols gems deal expires – we do not renew, as they are perfect for triggering our GA.

340AD: Ulsan:forge->bazaar

Econ comes in. Leadership in 4. Monopoly. [party]

Greece will not trade much for econ, he’ll get it himself next turn, I’ll bet.
Ethiopia gives Newtonian and Juris for Econ and 3 gpt.
Mercantilism and Juris to Inca for Leadership.
Sell Greece Econ for 300 gold, since he’ll get it next turn anyway, reupping salt deal, without the wool!
Wool, Absolutism, Newton, WM, and 90 gold to Rome for spices and iron.

My tech push paid off, as we are much closer to parity now, picking up four required techs, iron, and salt. With our improved tech pace, hope that’s not our last monopoly tech!

Should at least be able to beat all but Alex, which would allow us to ally the world against Alex after we trigger GA with war on Mongols. Should be able to buy in Rome and America for that war. Leave that decision to the next player.

350AD: Seoul:lab->hwatcha (in 1, little wastage), Pyongyang:wind mill->counselor (needs last mine to finish for 40spt), Hyang:granary->bazaar

Pyongyang should be at 40spt soon = 1 turn barracks/ two turn hwatchas. There is a peasant standing on the dyes near Carson for a colony to give us an extra to trade. Next monopoly tech we get should go to fomenting world war. I suspect Pusan may need to build units instead of Smiths (or Newton’s for a compromise), next player can decide, Carson will be well set for units (much higher base shields, production boosters) when Guild Hall completes. Can chop his forests to help that along, as he needs the food from the plains.

Let’s keep FP’s mined until after GA. Should have rails by then, making deserts more valuable to work.

IIRC the philosopher's school is a democratic government specific wonder. Do these stop working when we leave democracy?


I suspect Pusan may need to build units instead of Smiths (or Newton’s for a compromise), next player can decide,
This is a long-term game with tech pace being the key. Smith's is a huge economic wonder. IMO we must have this wonder if we are planning to launch. If I have a choice of a war soon, or Smith's I will take Smiths. Even though Romeo leans heavy toward war, I do get the impression he likes this wonder.
Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

Let’s keep FP’s mined until after GA. Should have rails by then, making deserts more valuable to work.
Don't forget the growth component here. Every addition population point increases our science rate. I was trying to get our cities to size 15 for maximum income.

What I didn't see much of was any new military. We only added 2 units, and those were workers. I am surprised to see the war soon comments. We have no military being built.

My tech push paid off, as we are much closer to parity now, picking up four required techs, iron, and salt.
Since we spent the effort to get iron I would really like to get up to pikes as our primary defensive unit.


Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk (currently playing)
Sanabas (on deck)
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

Phil school was a one turn build, that was key in getting us econ at monopoly.

The money Smith's makes is dwarfed by the money that can be made by becoming the tech leader. With our cheap sci builds, helped along by COM corruption reduction, this should be us. When we can sell tech for huge gpt, not only does this boost our econ, it drains the AI.

With Political Philosophy and the ability to make alliances, we already have sufficient forces for war, with the following objectives in mind:

A. To free up luxes for which to trade.

B. To secure our own source of saltpeter, and eventually iron.

C. To trigger our GA.

None of these fits into "warmongering". I only foresee us taking a minimum of five more cities the entire game. Soon we will also need a war to slow down Alex. This can be accomplished by dogpiling the world against him and getting embargos to cut off his luxes. Clowns don't make many shields or beakers. Such a war would also go a long way toward burning off AI units.

Both of these war scenarios require us being at or near the tech lead so we will have something with which to buy in allies. For instance, I could have used econ to accomplish this instead of gaining techs. I'm sure this would have given LK a heart attack! :lol: Lacked the cash for embassies. :mischief:

BTW, triggering our GA would go a long way toward making sure we get Smith's... while also allowing us to build lots of military. Pls be patient on the mil push - we have two cities (Carson and Pyongyang) which will soon be optimized for military builds, and Seoul can fill in until then. Once the filler city SE of Seoul hits five pop, he can work all shield squares and get production boosters up quickly to also build units.

The other cities need bazaars to stay happy as they grow, and also lack the cheap sci builds which are our advantage.

"Don't forget the growth component here. Every addition population point increases our science rate. I was trying to get our cities to size 15 for maximum income."

This is a good point, might be worth it - hate to sacrifice shields during GA though. Puzzled why we neglected the cheap (40 shield) granaries, if we wanted our cities to grow faster.

Puzzled why we neglected the cheap (40 shield) granarieswell, I started one during my turns, but this was the reply

I don't understand the granary in Namp'o

Puzzled why we neglected the cheap (40 shield) granaries, if we wanted our cities to grow faster.
These always seem to get lost in the shuffle. They are bad deal during chiefdom as the economy can collapse far to easy, but after that they will help.


I took a look at the game. I have to agree at some point Greece must be slowed down. The question will be when. With them being industrial we won't get a monopoly tech against them for a bit. They are the civ we need to sell techs to. All that yummy Greek cash will be the key to upgrading our spears to pikes and peasants to laborers. Now if some other backwards civ would take a city and we could get the cash from them...

We are starting on the Hwacha, so we have a possible GA coming up. However, we are still lacking the needed mobile units for a war.

well, I started one during my turns, but this was the reply
Well that was the worker pump city, and I didn't understand why we stopped pumping out the workers.

Well that was the worker pump city, and I didn't understand why we stopped pumping out the workersI explained already that when i inherited the save, it had outgrown the worker pump size and was building military to defend and survive.
Once we were back to peace, I saw it would take 3 turns to grow and 2 turns to pump a worker (means losing pop). Thus, a granary to speed up pop gain and match it with worker-build speed. Does that make sense or maybe am I wrong here?

Once we were back to peace, I saw it would take 3 turns to grow and 2 turns to pump a worker (means losing pop). Thus, a granary to speed up pop gain and match it with worker-build speed. Does that make sense or maybe am I wrong here?
I may have lost a pop point during the swap. :(
However, I didn't see the granary letting us get one turns units. That is why I didn't want it.

Now that laborers cost 30, a change of plans there seems in order. That city will actually make significant shields during the GA, so could get some production boosters going there, it might could regain its old job.

I really feel like that if we let the AI do most of the fighting for us, we have nearly enough units already to sit back and let the Mongols come to us and pick them off for a while. At least enough to get a Hwatcha win, which would up our production enough to make more units and have a better shot at getting Smith's before a cascader catches it. Even if an ER kills one of our spears, it will probably take some damage, leaving it vulnerable to a Hwatcha shot or two.

If we gang up Rome, America, and Carthage on Mongolia; Ethiopia and Incas will probably jump in on their own to share the spoils.

BTW, we don't need to beat Greece in tech to get the rest of the world allied against them - we only need to beat the rest of the world. :hammer:

I did upgrade five or six war camels to mameluks during my set.

I got it. I lean heavily towards war, but This still doesn't match my conditions for war.
In Bez1, Smiths was worth 350 gpt, and I assume it will be worth a similar amount here. I will put on my builder hat. There will be some are units, but mostly defense.
I honestly think that the only way we will want to war is with slow foot units and armies, and a huge ol SoD of Arty and HWatcha. War must be deliberate, and we do not have the time to fire off half cocked. War is still premature. If I were to be warring, I would have changed up the setup in the last 40 turns. We should build until electricity, then push war, IMHO.

Romeo, pls see my objectives above, and ask yourself if they are reachable given an alliance with the Romans, Americans, and Carthaginians against the Mongols. I woulld be willing to bet that if we don't get our GA in the next five turns, we can kiss Smith's goodbye anyway.

We are really overdue for our GA. My turns were exclusively builder turns, and our tertiary cities should continue to build whether we war or not. Pyongyang, on the other hand, will be perfectly situated to build units when his mine finishes, Seoul could provide a nice army single-handedly in the next twenty, and Carson will be there too soon.

I trust your judgment, but believe it will take a GA to get us the tech lead we need to unite the world against the Greek menace. If we wait until electricity, Greece could be close to tanks, especially if he starts eating his neighbors.

Pls delay prisons and hospitals until after factories, or at least until the GA.

IHT: Not much to do. Unit costs are killing us, swap Nampo to counselor. In my opinion we have plenty of workers. Swap Seoul to halbadier, as I never like my capitol with only 1 unit in it. Max research rate.
Turn 1: Get Music Theory and 8 gpt from the Inca for Juris Prudence, Sold Prudence to Rome for a WM and 112 gold. Astronomy gets gems and 12 gold from the Mongols. Cannot squeeze anything else out of anyone.
Turn 2: Get flintlock. We get 76 gold and a WM from Ethiopia for it. We get a freebie as Alexander builds an embassy for us. Upgrade a few units. I see no choice but to slow research to 3 turns. Get Naval Cannon from Inca for Flintlock. Do WM trades for around 20 gold.
Turn 3: Get 2 luxes from America for Naval Cannon. Abe chips in gold and a WM.
Turn 4: Not much, Seoul went to a market. We need the Central Bank.
Turn 5: Carson city will get an academy and a library, each in 1.
Turn 6: We get cavalry tactics, switch ages and get Nationalism free. It is a monopoly. Can I get a Booyah? Nationalism gets us grand strategy, a very pricey WM and 150 gold from Greece. Grand Strategy gets us Humanism from Ethiopia. Steam is due in 5 at a slight loss.
Turn 7: The Science push in our outlying cities pays off as we drop a turn off of steam and lose less gpt due to market in Seoul. Seoul starts bank. Nationalism gets a WM and Shipbuilding from Ethiopia. Greece is only up 3 techs.
Turn 8: Greece has Steam. Nuts. Still pushing hard on the science and eoncomy.
Turn 9: We pull our first AI damaging trade.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97-11.jpg
Start research on ToE, as it would be a monopoly tech. Mil academy in Seoul is a ToE Prebuild.
Turn 10: Corruption is still dogging us badly. I have snuck in some courts and such throughout as well.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97-2.jpg
We got all kings of good news, and everything is looking up for us. I would keep building and get us some more economy going, then throw up some factories. We must have peace for ~20 more turns, and we will economically crush our opponents. We are suffering no flip threat or culture pressure at the moment.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-450AD.SAV

:dance: Smith's Trading company in 1. :dance:

We also have so nice GPT coming in from other civs. No we have to hope they don't break their payment via war. I have suffered that one to many times.

With ToE coming in our #1 goal should be at least one monopoly tech. I would really like to get a large block of cash from Greece to upgrade our worker force and spearmen. The upgrade to line infantry is an absurd $210, and is only feasible if we get several thousand from Greece.

We need to think if we want to become a federal republic. It gives lower corruption and 150% worker efficiency.


Corruption is still dogging us badly. I have snuck in some courts and such throughout as well.
Well that wonderful Supreme Court should be available soon to further help. I think we should put he Summer Palace in Carson City to simply get the OCN boast. That will help us even more.


Turn 4: Not much, Seoul went to a market. We need the Central Bank.
$50 in interest is always a good thing. I am not sure if the Capitol is the ultimate location this game, as we haven't gotten any of the +1 trade bonus wonders yet.


My worry is still military as we are still ignoring it. The perfect tech picture is meaningless if we loss a key city. In addition, I feel we DO have at least one required war. The Mongols must be hit. Darhan gives us Saltpeter. Kazan gives us coal AND spices. I don't want to have to depend on importing iron and coal for the rest of the game.

The second war that is needed is Greece. They are the #1 culture threat. They have a ton of cash to get for razing cities. There culture is so strong

Consider the following for our GA situation. We are commercial and scientific. Smith's in one turn is a commercial wonder. ToE is a scientific wonder. If we get ToE we get our GA.


Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk
Sanabas (currently playing)
ThERat (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

"I think we should put he Summer Palace in Carson City to simply get the OCN boast. That will help us even more."

Good idea, especially if we're just going to be peaceful builders for the most part. Might make sense just to disband the spears and build line infantry instead of paying the huge upgrade costs. Given our lack of coastal cities, still think Smith's will be disappointing, but would be nice to trigger a GA with it. Any chance of getting Newton's too?

Can't believe I'm the warmonger and Romeo's the builder here. :lol:

We can get Newtons, but I would prefer the ToE. That would be our chance to get a monoploy tech or 2, and bilk greece Badly. We could use our GA to build up a force and hit the Mongols hard, liberating our 2 listed key cities.
For governments, I like Federal republic with Smith's a whole ton better than Soc Dem. I know this isn't 1.04, but soc dem got nerfed a bit there, and I just love stacking the conglomerate and Empire state in my capitol and watching the commerce flow. I am not sure a revolt is in order yet though.

I wish there were more of a decision to make there, but sco dem just works too well on so many levels. If we stay small, its closer, but so many of the late improvements have such high upkeeps, that soc dem is really the only way to go if you run the numbers.

Speaking of which, the marginal science boost offered by Newton will give us 50 monopoly techs if we play our cards right. ToE just ain't that big a deal when there are over 200 techs to research.

450AD: All good, change Pyong'yang from philo school to school, change Carson City to Summer Palace

460: Pusan builds Smith's ---> Newton's. Only about 20gpt benefit from smith's for now, but that will improve.
Ethiopia is on the march again, better not be attacking us, switch a couple of builds just in case, get a couple of Barracks built

470: Ethiopia extort 29 gold

480: Research TofE--->Social Darwinism
Ethiopia builds Circus Maximus
Greece has TofE too.
Trade ToE to Ethiopia for WM, 40gpt & 60 gold
Ethiopia is marching through our territory, Rome or Greece is the target

490: zzz

500: Carson City builds Summer Palace
America builds Gutenberg's Bible

510: Ethiopia declares war on Rome
Trade Nationalism to Rome for Naval Tactics

520: Greece declares war on Rome too
Research Social Darwinism at monopoly---> Industrialisation
Soc Dar to Greece for Medicine & 900 gold
Soc Dar & Medicine to Ethiopia for Industrialisation & 40 gold
Start research on Steam Engine

530: Mongols & Rome ally v Greece

540: America & Greece ally v Mongols
Mongols demand Dyes, I tell them to go away, and they do.
America establishes embassy with us
Greece beats us to Newton's by 1 turn, switch Pusan to Sistine Chapel, I think we want Taj Mahal, which is available in 2 turns.
Give Soc Dar & steam power to Inca for Constitutionalism & 410 gold
Soc Dar & Steam Power to Rome for 125gpt & 220 gold
Upgrade 11 peasants

IBT: Renew Saltpetre deal, we give camel, dyes & 65gpt to greece for it. Went with 65gpt rather than 1200 lump sum just in case war starts.
Renew spice & iron deal, we give rome a tech for it. I wrote Social Darwinism, which I gave them for the gold, I think it was probably Industrialisation.

550: Greece builds JS Bach's Cathedral
Upgrade 6 more peasants

Steam engine is due next turn, Pusan should switch to Taj Mahal, I think it's the most useful wonder on the list apart from Encyclopedie, which we don't want. T of E is due in 6 turns, we should be a good chance of 2 monopolies from it.

From the sounds of this I would change our wonder builds. I would swap Pusan to ToE, and Seoul to the Military Academy. We will want to get up factories in these 2 towns ASAP, as well as start accumulating free armies. If we can get High Explosives with the ToE, I would do that regardless of monopoly status, or if you can trade our Mono techs for it. We do not want to feed Greece any more gpt, and actually want to bleed gpt from it.
I think we should also make sure that Rome gets greatly discounted techs, especially military techs, as they will be eating all the advanced units from the 2 tech monsters.
We can probably build up military in the next 10-15 turns and make the mongols suffer. I would be in favor of this as they already have 2 opponents, and are backward.
I would want someone to provide a really good analysis on why we would want to build the Taj Mahal. Is Clauswiz's on War availible? With the expensive upgrades of this age, I think that it is a very useful wonder, certainly far more than the Taj. This is also an option if the Tech pace is aligned with the ToE.

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk
Sanabas
ThERat (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

We should be able to research High Explosives ourselves in the 5 turns we have after steam engine is researched and before T of E completes. Tech pace is in sync with a Seoul T of E build, Pusan would complete in 8 and be in the middle of whatever tech we research after T of E. Clausewitz is available, switching Pusan to that is a good idea, I think it would finish very soon. For some reason I thought Clausewitz was free barracks, not 1/2 price upgrades. Taj Mahal is the equivalent of a happy face in each city that doesn't expire, so it is useful but not too important, I agree 1/2 price upgrades is much better for us at the moment, so I'd like to see Seoul finish T of E and trigger our GA, Pusan build Clausewitz, and miliatary academy can wait a bit.

got it, tonight

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-650AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
read the suggestion and swap Pusan to Clausewitz in 5

IT Romans get some beating

1.560AD
Greece pull steam same turn as us, no bleeding possible here
we lose gems from Mongols, but we don't trade with them any longer
trade steam engine with Romans straight for Federalism
we get ToE in 4, the only tech we can pull faster is modern legal system, go for that then
federalism to Inca for 39gpt

2.570AD
zzz

IT Inca and Greece sign against Mongols

3. 580AD
nth much

IT America and greece ally against Rome
get Modern Legal system
Cathage finishes Sistine, I hold my breath but no cascade, we will get our 2 wonders next turn

4 .590AD
we want Greece to bleed, let's see
send it to them for 90gpt
Rome is rich adn pays 750g for it
swap it with ethiopia for Free Artistry
Rome pays another 550g for that

IT Inca and Greece sign MPP
we get ToE and enter GA
we get high explosives, go for another expensive tech, corporation

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97590.jpg

go for sanitation so we can get city planning for forests in our barren deserts

on another positive note, Rome actually managed to raze a greek town and their cpt has plunged for now

5. 600AD
America has 3 sources of coal, but lack the knowledge to know it actually exists, that has to change immediately
ship them steam in exchange for social contracts and hope they will start to connect those 2 sources for us
send High explosives to Greece for 240gpt
for the Corporation we take 1100g and 150gpt
establish embassies with 5 Civ's which we didn't do before (all show lack of research and shields)
invest some money on a careful steel in Greece and we get electricity
to get some cash back, send it to Rome for 47gpt and 180g

IT now Carthago declares on mongols

6. 610AD
zzzz

IT ethiopia and Rome sign peace

7. 620AD
America seems in no hurry to connect their coal

IT we get sanitation

8. 630AD
sell sanitation to Greece for 2550g (they won't pay gpt since they seem broke)
go for espionage next so we start really stealing as well
am fed up, sign RoP with America to connect their coal for us ( we need that also if we want to fight Mongols)
Ethiopia has money again, sell sanitation for 160g and 41gpt

IT no wonder America does not connect coal, since they fight Romans closeby
Pusan and Seoul finish their factories, both go for wonders
Rome gets encyclopedia

9.640AD
since they will gain those techs anyway next turn, sell Rome high explosives for all money they have
32gpt and 69g
our workers reach coal source

10.650AD
connect coal and buy it for a tech, send a unit to cover it from Romans
finally start to rail, but with so few workers this is slow
Hyangsan which is unhappy anyway, will skim off a worker next turn
espionage will be in next turn, most likely monopoly, we should build IA
we have 6200g and make 772gpt at 60% science (10% lux)

Mongols are gone soon, we better start to attack this turn (left units for next player to declare and move in)

our expatriate workforce in American land
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97650.jpg

since we now have coal, we should switch Pusan and Seoul to coal plants

and I did not realise that Tabriz is Incan already. we might be too late to reach that slat town of the Mongols, they suddenly have too many enemies.

we might want to pick Carthage and Mongols together and try and get something from there.

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Bezhukov (on deck)
Romeothemonk
Sanabas
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-750AD.zip


650 AD
I notice a worker inside Mongol territory. Declare war would ruin on RoP rep, so no decision needs to even be made.

We have over $6000 and 1/2 price upgrades. I will be upgrading our troops as much as possible during my turns. We have no native peasants, but I will keep my eye out for foreign ones needing to be upgraded.

I definitely have my work cut out during the GA. Edison's would be nice to get. I want the corruption reducing Supreme Court. In addition, I want the Central Bank, and Wall Street for our economy. This doesn't even cover several other small wonders and a desperate need for more workers.


I swap some builds, as factory in 6 is much better then hospital in 5. It does seem weird to be building International Port by hand. Building line infantry and a city lacking even a town clock just doesn't make sense to me.


660 AD
I send the backwards Americans Grand Strategy for wm, $30, $3/turn and a worker. It is the labor I really wanted.
I sell the Greeks Espionage for $3825.
I continue to bleed the Inca by sending them Steam Engine for $90 and $45/turn.

At this point we can't gain as much from the Mongols with them losing the coal and spice town. The Inca beat me to Tabriz. If that blasted worker wasn't there last turn. I am now going to reposition toward the salt city and hope I have enough time.


680 AD
I declare war on the Mongols. Now I need to hope I can get Mamelucky.
(IT) Ethiopia and Greece ally vs. the Mongols.
OUCH - Carthage beat us to the city with salt and the Mongols are dead.


690 AD
I snag a Greek worker.
(IT) Carthage and Greece sign a MPP.
Greece and Carthage ally against Rome.


720 AD
I ship Greece City Planning and $3100 for Refining.
Would you believe we have NO oil with the absurd amount of desert we have? We may have to build an aggressive city next to Ethiopia.
I ship City Planning to Ethiopia for Grand War.
I ship City Planning to Rome for $590 and $33/turn. Silly AI, don't you realize you will get it for free next turn?
(IT) The loyal Greeks sign a peace treaty with Rome abandoning their ally in Carthage.


740 AD
We will have to go with out iron for 1 turn. I refuse spend $85/turn for the next 20 turns, when a tech should get it next turn. With Rome having the Encyclopedia it is a lot harder to trade tech for iron.
(IT) Edison's Lab completes and we get Thermodynamics and Refrigeration for free.

Ethiopian completes Chichen Itza that is already obsolete. :crazyeye:


750 AD
I ship Greece Thermodynamics, Refrigeration and Internal combustion for Replaceable Parts and $7510.
We actually have a resource and have rubber by Cheju. :dance:

I give Rome Refrigeration for Spices, Iron, wm, $16/turn and $181.

I mass upgrade 12 line infantry to rifles.

==========================

Summary:
The Central Bank is on its way. I built 2 district courthouses toward the Supreme Court. We need to figure out the city for the third. This is an excellent corruption reducing wonder. Did I mention Eiffel Tower for free monuments and a nice culture boast? Pusan is trying to snag that right now. We can't let the 2 culture monsters get another great culture wonder. We also have Empire State to work toward in the capitol. We have none of the required skyscrapers. We also have Crystal Palace coming up soon. Our GA may secure us a very strong position if we get all these powerful wonders.

We need to push culture in Cheju to avoid losing our source of rubber.

I have troops near Carthage. The timing may very well depend on the Greek MPP. The other possibility is Rome as they have nearby coal.

We have a ton of cash. Please upgrade the rest of the line infantry to rifles. I have almost hit my goal of 2 rifles per city.

I built a decent amount of labor from our weaker cities, and we have a military rail-net. The next goal should be to rail Pusan like crazy as there is competition for Eiffel Tower.

Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov (currently playing)
Romeothemonk (on deck)
Sanabas
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

That all sounds good LK. If we want to be evil jerks, I suggest heading for Psychology and having Greece and Rome pay us to shut off their gravy train.
I normally build the Empire State towards the end of the age, as the skyscrapers take a while to accumulate. It is actually a cheaper wonder and I have never had competition for it.
Good luck on the bilding turns Bez. See if you can gain us over 100 gpt with the sliders in the same position. That is always my goal in builder turns.

Good luck on the building turns Bez. See if you can gain us over 100 gpt with the sliders in the same position.
With us getting $50 just for Central Bank, that won't be to much of a challenge.


If we want to be evil jerks, I suggest heading for Psychology and having Greece and Rome pay us to shut off their gravy train.
He is a hint for my vote :satan: :satan: :satan:
It will certainly make our life easier.

So I guess we're the super-nice trading Koreans, eh? Might get us an early launch date, with all the techs we'll be handing out. Johnny Appleseed, coming up!

If that blasted worker wasn't there last turnyou had the same type of illusion I had when I started my last turn, Tabriz was already Incan when i send that worker back to our territory. If I had known that suddenly all CI's ally against Mongols I would have acted, but I was too immersed in trying to figure how we can get coal, how to improve our basic infrastructure with cash rushing.

Anyway, we should take on Carthago for a bit and maybe take a slice of the Romans to secure some land.

I ship Greece City Planning and $3100 for RefiningDid we build the IA, I think we could have gotten a much better deal by selling that tech and go for a safe steal for refining.

Did we build the IA, I think we could have gotten a much better deal by selling that tech and go for a safe steal for refining.
The IA is on the massive list of things to build. We have way more wonders (small and large) to build right now versus capacity.

We have way more wonders (small and large) to build right now versus capacity.I agree with this and with the limited number of towns we have, this is tough. That's why a war might help to snag some MGL's to rush a few small wonders. During the start of the GA, I tried to still build some basic improvements in many of the cities.

Pre-flight: What is this game, the anti-Romeo? :lol: Way too peaceful. Ethiopia and Greece need to fight! Let’s see if we can swing a tech that can arrange this.

Looks like our salt deal with Alex is about to expire. Trade Rome a couple spare luxes for coffee and 8 gpt to help him stay in the race. In five turns, our deals with Alex expire. We have gold coming out our ears!

We have super artillery, and we’ve built none? That’s strange. I’ll wait til we can upgrade our army to go to war.

760: Seoul: District Court->Coal Plant, Pusan:Coal Plant->Park, Nampo:toll house->town clock, Cheju:library->granary, Hyang:academy->SoS, Inchon:laborer(pop skim)->coal plant, Pyongsong:guild hall->granary, Paegam:town clock->granary

City Planning to Inca for 40 gpt and change. Rome now at tech parity.

Incas take Byzantium, Greece declares on Rome – Rome is not long for this world.

770: Pusan: park->shakes in 5 (monuments only cost 20 shields, Eiffel’s not worth it.), Cheju:granary->artist’s guild, Hyang:SoS->Artist’s Guild, Pyongsong:granary->toll house, Paegam:granary->guild hall

780: Seoul:Coal Plant->park, Pyongyang:Coal Plant->park, Carson:Coal Plant->school, Nampo:clock->granary, Pyongsong:toll house->court

Soc Dar to America for two luxes and 31 gpt.

We have Screw Propeller monopoly, and we’ll hold it a turn.

790:Seoul:Park->Palace Gardens, Carson:school->summer gardens, Nampo:granary->bazaar, Hyang:artist’s guild->guild hall

800:Seoul:Palace Gardens->Central Bank, Pyongyang: park->granary, Carson:Summer Gardens->Supreme Court, Cheju:artist’s guild->guild hall, Ulsan:IP->granary, Inchon:Coal Plant->park, Pyongsong:court->factory

Alright, the moment of truth. All our deals with Alex expire. Change all new builds to Hwatchas.

We safely steal Repeating Rifle from Alex.

We safely steal Realpolitik from Alex.

We safely steal Marxism from Alex.

Our safe steal fails, but we don’t get caught. This is ridiculous.

Our immediate steal fails, but we escape. :crazyeye:

BTW, Alex has taken 4 Roman cities in the last two turns. The time to strike is now.

Finally, immediate fails and we get a declaration.

Ethiopia and America join us against Greece. :hammer:

Wow, Inca will not join for 6 techs! Never seen that one before. Carthago also refuses to join. :sad: So much for world war on Alex. Should at least distract him from his march through Rome, however.

Repeating Rifle passed on to Ethiopia for the silks she was shipping to Alex and 85 gpt. Steam Engine to Abe for 40gpt. Repeating Rifle to Caesar for 70gpt and 240 gold.
810: Compulsory Ed->Mass Production (delayed since it obsoletes Angkor)

Pyongyang:hwatcha->granary, Nampo:bazaar->guild hall, Hyang:guild hall->factory, Inchon:hwatcha->park, Pagaem:guild hall->factory

Ethiopia beats us to shakes by one turn. Pusan switches to US as prebuild for CP.

820:Pyongyang:granary->cavalry, Pyongsong:hwatcha->factory

IBT: Carthage declares on America. That’s odd – all the Ethiopian units headed to Greece have turned around.

830:Carson:Supreme Court->public school, cheju:hwatcha->guild hall, Inchon: park->prison

840:Mass Production->psychology, Seoul:Central Bank->public school, Pyongyang:cavalry->cavalry, Carson: public school->sewer system

Ethiopia gives us 170 gpt and 400 gold for compulsory ed.

IBT: Greece buys in Carthage against Ethiopia

850: Seoul: public school->sewer

We can take out Carthago at any time. Next player can decide when that is.
Just thought of it - pls sell the DC's now that we have Supreme. Pls mine forest being planted at Hyang.

If Alex shows up with a SoD, we have sufficient units to delay him, and sufficient productive capacity to take it out if necessary. Hopefully, war can get him out of Fed Repub. I'd prefer to wait for soc dem, but if fed repub is the team choice, we might want to wait until after the Greek situation clears up to revolt.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LKwest.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LKeast.JPG

Wow, Inca will not join for 6 techs! Never seen that one before. Carthago also refuses to join. So much for world war on Alex. Should at least distract him from his march through Rome, however.

That'll happen sometimes when bringing in multiple allies. Each additional alliance is more expensive than the last.

Got it. Will play after Bez1 finally finishes, should be only a few more hours, but that will be in the morning or tomorrow evening.

Now that Ethiopia is fighting Carthage (using our RoP), we need to strike while the iron is hot to get those Carthaginian cities before Ethiopia does.

(Monuments only cost 20 shields, Eiffel’s not worth it.),
Well it can't be fix it now, but I disagree. I don't like having Ethiopia or Greece to get even stronger culture wise. I don't want our space race game to have a forced war to reduce their culture.


Just thought of it - pls sell the DC's now that we have Supreme. :D :D


Wow, Inca will not join for 6 techs! Never seen that one before. Carthago also refuses to join.
Do they have an MPP? If so, then getting an alliance is almost impossible.


Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk (currently playing)
Sanabas (on deck)
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

Greece doesn't even have 10K culture yet, and we're already over 5K ourselves. I think the lightining tech pace of this game will save us from the seemingly inevitable "chase the culture runaway" problem. That and not having the Iros or Celts in this game. :)

Built a couple Artist Guilds in culture pressure towns to help as well. If you want monuments, we can hand build them for way less than the shields it costs to build Eiffel (I think it was bumped in 1.04).

I'd say go slow and steady vs. Carthago, as we don't want to be surprised by Alex, but we could just take the cities around the lake and have many of the resources we need.
Having not seen Alex yet, I'd say the bulk of his army is slow units, which means it should be a turkey shoot when he shows up.

I will see what I can do. I like the Eiffel Tower, but it is not our optimal build at the moment.
@Bez, you want me to go slow and steady on War?? Did you go to the Bernard Montgomery school of Battle?
@Lk, do not worry I will not be an out of control warmonger.

More apt would be the school of Yi Sun-Sin. ;)

See:

http://www.samurai-archives.com/hak.html

That article didn't mention much of Yi Sun-Sin's tactics other than manueverability. I typically subscribe to the Custer school of Warfare. Take their best straight up, then clean up the trash later. LK96 was one of those classic Custer Boo-Boo's, but Bez1 featured resounding sucess with that strat.
Actually in this game I am advocating more of the Bernard Montgomery school of war, but it will be effective as long as there is no time limit on the war. (Churchill called Montgomery the Best General of WW1)

Once again, I speak of strategy, and you tactics. My concern is with the overall strength of the Greek army, as was Yi Sun-Sn's with the Japanese, so he took them out en route. If you "take their best straight up", we will lose. As would have Yi Sun-Sin. The strategic situation requires us to be more careful than that. I.e. let them march whatever leathernecks they wish into our hwatcha trap and thin out their forces before pressing beyond the current Carthaginian cities which we need to (easily, as Carthage is gassed) take. Stacks of leathernecks sitting next to our city are great fodder for bombardment and being killed by rifles on O. They are less easy to handle when they control the road instead of us.

Once this is accomplished, we can probably take the Greek iron city (which I believe can also support an Iron Works, and makes a good Winter Palace location) before peace.

The Strategy of Yi Sun would get me castigated by LK. I don't want to let the southern half of our empire to be overrun and our citizens slaughtered. I will not let leathernecks mess me up, or let slow units mess with us. (It is a point of honor, my research group is largely ex-Navy guys, while our rivals are all ex-marines) I cannot in good conscience let Marines mess up my turns.

"The Strategy of Yi Sun would get me castigated by LK. I don't want to let the southern half of our empire to be overrun and our citizens slaughtered."

:lol:

Yi Sun-Sin was the admiral, not the general. In the book I read on the action, he stopped the better part of the invasion before it ever reached the shores, using technology well ahead of its time (the "turtle ships" were like crude ironclads). The point is, he didn't invade Japan, he waited for the Japanese to come to him and slaughtered vast numbers of them. The corollary point is that his country also won out in the end.

Alex's units will only mess with us if we fight in Greek territory. Let's fight them in former Carthiginian territory before sallying forth.

Wow, Inca will not join for 6 techs! Never seen that one before. Carthago also refuses to join.
Carthage has an MPP with Greece. The only way to get Carthage on our side would be to sing an MPP and wait for Greece to attack.
I don't know what happened with the Inca. I still suspect a MPP, but they would know join us for 1 tech.

This is mighty weird to be at "war", and to have just one city building military.

It's not at all weird. We have sufficient forces to accomplish our stated objectives - to take two or three Carthaginian cities with the resources we need, as Carthage is totally gassed, and to hold off any encroaching Greek units, as they will likely arrive piecemeal if we don't get too far ahead of ourselves. Since we have a railnet, we can used the second rifles in interior cities if necessary.

Our big cities have too many shields to waste on units until the GA ends. The other cities are finishing up their infra first. If we need more units, we'll have time to switch over, given the rail-net.

I imagine the MPP was the reason, although I would not have signed up Carthage regardless, as we needed to take their cities soon. There was little choice in the matter, as had I not acted, Greece would have swallowed Rome (Rome was getting piled). Buying in Ethiopia and America cut off one lux and likely a healthy chunk of gpt from Greece. I also inked embargos vs. Greece with our allies.

IHT: declare and capture Oea. get 2 workers.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97-12.jpg
Will also capture Darhan, then break out the torches. Swap Seoul to the eiffel tower.
IBT: Watch carthage and enemies fight. I will enjoy these turns.
Turn 1: Swap carson city to Taj Mahal. (6-turns)
Turn 2: The Carthaginians are dying too fast. I will step up my conquest rate.
IBT: Watch the Inca and Ethiopia kill more Carthage stuff. See first greek units. Get psych, Rome gives 3340 gold and 146 gpt for it. WOO HOO.
Turn 3: Start the East India company. Research to unionization. Fail to take Darhan, but lose nothing and get a promotion.
Turn 4:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97-21.jpg
This is a good way to start a turn. Pusan makes 300 spt!! I sense some infra. I capture Darhan and 1 worker. 2 Greek units are parked outside. Kill 1 of the greeks, raze rusicade.
Turn 5: GA ends. 2 Riots. We can build the National library, Pusan builds market starts bank. Keep the econ humming now. My GPT will not go up 100, I blame the lack of GA.
IBT: Rome and Greece sign peace.
Turn 6: After thinking for a while, I sign the Inca up against the Greeks. The greeks need more distraction, and the Inca have a target painted on them. We have not been touched, so this war should be okay.
Turn 7: Unionization gets us advanced metallurgy and gpt from Rome. Building a ton of science buildings. Moving around to smack the other side of the lake.
Turn 8: The Greeks raze brundisim. We build the following.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97-3.jpg
We kill a couple of greek leathernecks. Get Pusan up to 240 spt post GA.
IBT: My first loss, a cav to a greek cav that redlined.
Turn 9: Kill a greek cav and a leatherneck. Railing and maximizing stuff.
Turn 10:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97-4.jpg
We needed a boost to culture. Pusan builds the Heroic epic (in 1). Kill some greek units and even kill one with Hwatcha. We lost the iron and spices. I leave it to the next player to get the deals going again,
We can make peace with Carthage whenever we want. I played very cautiously with the warring, and spent the time building nice infra. Our infra is humming much better now. Pusan is an awesome shield powerhouse, but Seoul needs a few science improvements. I think Pusan should build the IA after the stock exchange. We lack wall street, and when we can build it should park it in Seoul.
We may need to start building a few more war units, and Carson City is a really handy 160 spt. I am in no hurry for the war to end, as we just chip at whatever greek stuff we see.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97-5.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-950AD.SAV

:scan: Trying to locate the save. :scan:


We may need to start building a few more war units, and Carson City is a really handy 160 spt. I am in no hurry for the war to end, as we just chip at whatever Greek stuff we see.
Well if we are in no hurry to end the war, then I want a least one city on military. I sorry, but even without the war we should have been building some artillery if nothing else. Our artillery force is pitiful last time I looked at the game.

I know the builds are doing great with getting one of the killer wonders of Crystal Palace along with several other nice small and large wonders.


Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk
Sanabas (currently playing)
ThERat (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

Better now? The whole sleep deprivation thing really sucks.

Very nice move getting the Inca in - just have to watch out for the Greeks buying in Ethiopia now against us and Inca. Also, WW could start to bite. By building Taj and starting on East India, you strategically took this consideration into account, I see.

;)

Well, we spent, what? 1500 shields? to save 200 (Eiffel), so that could have been a nice military. Whoever inherits the game will need to reup our embargos with Greece if we want to keep them down. We need to move on the Greek iron city if we want to have our own supply.

Ethiopia is fighting the greeks in the save I handed off. The Eiffel tower wastes shields on face value, but it is very important. First it is happy help for Seoul, which actually needed it. 2nd, while individual cities can build monuments, I have yet to see our team take time to do that on Deity. Heck we didn't even do that in Bez1, where we were under massive cultural damage/pressure. The Eiffel tower gives us ~25 cpt, which is very important, and each city will conitnually expand their borders, regardless of what I build.
@WW, We have lost 1 unit total, I doubt WW is going to hurt us. I agree with LK and more arty, I just saw too many key infra builds left out, so I fixed them.
I saw east india unbuilt, and that was a no brainer to build. Taj Mahal was more of a denial build, but I like great wonders. I think I need to go through Isions 12 step wonder addiction program again. We need ~20 more artillary to think offensive. I thought we were doing a limited goals defensive war and let the AI's brain each other, while we get key resources and Tech like banshees.
I would not build any more rifles. The upgrade path on them is suboptimal for the next whole age, and we have plenty.

Well, we spent, what? 1500 shields? to save 200 (Eiffel), so that could have been a nice military.
I don't think we will ever agree on this one. To me denying the culture monsters more culture alone was worth it. We now have border expansions in 10 turns in any new city we capture if we don't get a worker to sacrifice.

Look, I'm just saying monument build cost was changed in 1.04, and I haven't heard any arguments to adjust for that. When I advance an argument, I'm not saying - "look, I'm right, deal with it." I'm saying, "here's some factors that lead me to a conclusion, I'd like to get some other perspectives to see if there are any factors I'm overlooking."

We haven't built monuments because 1 cpt doesn't do a great deal - there is more bang for the buck elsewhere. We still lacked infra during Romeo's turn because we previously spent a lot of time building units instead. I'm saying that if you want monuments, you could hand build them and save 1200 shields for units, allowing other cities to get the infra done.

I am not saying who is right or wrong, but I like the Eiffel tower. Our key cities would waste 100+ shields on a monument, but this way we still get the culture. Also it is a great denial wonder.
It is expensive as happy help, but it gives quality happy help to a City that needs it. I cannot pass up 25 cpt, plus happy help for 1200 or 1500 shields. It makes shake's look downright pedestrian.
RR'ing in Pusan is worth 5 spt, carson and Seoul 4-5 depending. I would concentrate on getting these 3 cities RRed all the way. I got most of their tiles RR'ed but every spt is useful, especially if the goo hits Carson City.

I am not saying who is right or wrong, but I like the Eiffel tower. Our key cities would waste 100+ shields on a monument, but this way we still get the culture. Also it is a great denial wonder.

The denial wonder is the key for me. I don't want Greece of Ethiopia getting another large block of culture.

"To me denying the culture monsters"

What culture monsters? :lol:

Got it. Will play today.

We lost the iron and spices. I leave it to the next player to get the deals going again. We have 4 cities ready to riot due to the loss of spices. This is a really critical trade to complete to get back spices.
Rome has *NO* iron for trade. This is ugly as no civ appears have a spare.



I don't understand why we aren't starving the Carthage cities we just capture. The flip risk is low, but it can be made even less. If we are going to capture please reduce the cities to one foreign citizen.

Looking at the game further we NEED to take 2 greek cities - Pisae and Viroconium. Since they are former Roman cities the flip risk s/b almost zero. That would give us iron, coal along with more gold and aluminum.

I believe Pisae can even build an Iron Works, as I recall - good place for the Winter Palace.

I believe Pisae can even build an Iron Works, as I recall - good place for the Winter Palace.

I have got to remember to check for Iron Works sites. I may have put a city in the wrong spot and missed a chance to build it, if I have I apologise, abandon & replace will be very easy.

950AD: Get spices off Rome for 200 gold.
Switch Hyangsan to 2-turn cavalry, switch the 2 carthaginian cities to colonists to starve them down and enable raze & replace on Greece. Global culture is behind the greeks but far ahead of Carthage, I'd rather have 1 carthaginian citizen than 1 greek.

IBT: Renew oil deal with Ethiopia, we give furs & wool for oil, WM & 3 gold
Carthage wants peace, I decline until I can check if we have alliances, etc.
America wants alliance v Rome, decline that too

960: Learn Radio--->Motorised Transport
Sign peace with Carthage, they give WM & 20 gold. Carthage has a spare Iron, but they have an embargo against us with the Inca


970: Radio, WM & 800 gold to Rome for Automatic Weapons

980: Seoul builds National Library
Marxism to America for Trop fruit, sugar, WM & 4 gold
Upgrade 16 rifles

IBT: Carthage & Greece ally v Inca, and the embargo ends

990: Research motorised transport--->tank war
Wall St & Nat History museum are now available
Ulsan builds East India Company
Upgrade 8 rifles
Takes 3 techs, but we have iron, artillery & RR again. Steel, Corporation & Screw Propeller to Carthage for iron, WM & 50 gold.

1000: Finally finish off the leathernecks & cav that the greek have been sending, and can go on the offensive.

IBT: All alliances end, all embargoes v greece are renewed.
Buy silks off Ethiopia for 220 gold

1010: We no longer have horses, but with tanks in 2 turns they're not worth buying again.
Buy cotton from Inca for 200 gold

IBT: Greece & Inca sign peace

1020: Pusan builds Intelligence agency
Raze & Replace Pisae with Manp'o

1030: Research Tank War--->Machine Tools
Seoul builds National Gallery
Raze & Replace Viroconium with Kaesong, get an MGL doing it, rush National History Museum in Seoul with it.

1040: Seoul builds National History Museum
Motorised Transport to Rome fr 1494 gold, 52gpt & WM
Buy Olive Oil from America for 250 gold, we're now at 10 luxes.
Automatic Weapons & Psychology to Ethiopia for 155gpt, horses & 6 gold
Upgrade 3 greek workers

1050: Auto-raze Troy and replace with Chonju, that gives us a 2nd iron and our 11th lux.

We can make peace with Greece whenever we want, but there's still easy cities to take & no WW yet. Seoul has started Wall St, there are 5 skyscrapers in production for Empire State Building, Seoul can either finish Wall St and start on an empire prebuild, or we can save wall st for later/put it in another city and get empire state earlier. I tried multiple times to plant a spy with greece, but failed every time, they have a couple of techs for us to steal, and we have plenty of cash to spend. There's still 1 colonist in Seoul, there is also an empty army, I'd suggest MKIVs go into it.

I would keep the army empty for a long time or put cavs in it. I hate putting MK4's in armies. I like armor, or cavs. I use artillary to redline, then a cav army to clean up the trash.
We want to fish for some more MGL's, as the steel foundry is coming up soon.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-1150AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
things look good, but change Ulsan to winter palace
trade Rome camels for 550g

IT great, a Greek Cav steals a stack of workers :mad:

1. 1060AD
get workers back and prepare assault on Eritrea

IT we get Machine tools, total war next, we don't want to lose to LoN vote

2.1070AD
use 2 recaptured slaves to sacrifice for border expansion to make land safer and get us aluminum now
attack and keep Eritrea, low flip risk

IT oh, Carthage sign alliance with greece versus us and we lose iron (but we 2 more sources now)
get wall street

3. 1080AD
zzzz

IT Rome wants to talk and we trade tank warfare for submarine warfare and flight

4 .1090AD
after taking 1 turn break, finally succeed to plant a spy with Greece
careful steal succeed and we take Theory of Relativity :D
raze Neapolis

IT Rome and America sign peace
we get total war, aviation next

5. 1100AD
WW starts to kick in, feel we have achieved a lot already
Seoul goes to LoN in 1, Pusan to Einsteins lab
raze Sparta for 3 slaves and 102g, raze Marathon, time for peace now
we get 520g with peace, everyone back home is happy again
safely steal quantum physics from Greek (we do have 1 source of uranium)
trade Greeks machine tools for military tradition, 1640g and 62gpt
machine tools to Rome for 1130g and 105gpt

IT we get LoN and decline the vote

6. 1110AD
build Sariwon to snatch another silver
this will be a start to punish carthage even more

IT Roman tanks appear in their fight against Incans

7. 1120AD
swap Pusan to Empire state building

IT Ethiopia razes Carthage city in front of our units

8. 1130AD
continue to partially cash rush builds

IT Ethiopia does almost the same again, but fail to take town and they sign peace
we get Aviation, totaliarism in 3 next
Pusan finishes Empire state building

9.1140AD
found Suwon to claim another aluminum source (more importantly, deny Greek that resource)
raze Almarikh for 3 slaves
trade Greece Total war for 740g and 200gpt

IT we lose spices, but no need to renew, we have sufficient luxes ourselves now

10.1150AD
attack and raze Carthage, get 6 slaves (we might want to stop there and sign peace as the Cav army is badly beaten)
continue our railnet, it's still far from complete, but our number of workers is limited
we might need to raze more towns in a future war
Rome and Inca still fight on our territory
we are looking good and are tech leaders extorting a lot of gold from others with techs. this should stay that way

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk971150.jpg

Great work team! I'd say enough war, let's bring 'er home!

"it gives quality happy help to a City that needs it"

Monuments are pretty to look at, but inspire little devotion in the populace, if I recall correctly...

Great work ThERat. I think we should stop warring now, as we are teetering on out of control. I would sit back and become massive science and cash builders.
The Eiffel tower gives 2 happy faces in the city that builds it.
If we built the empire state in Pusan, we should also build the Spirit of St Louis there.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-1250AD.zip

1150 AD
We blew the city positions for iron and coal. We should have an iron works city. I plan to get rid of Kaesong and build 2 cities to replace it.
(IT) I get our oil back at the cost of 2 techs. We need to secure our own source soon.


1160 AD
Haeju is formed. Kaesong is abandoned. Taegu is formed to be an iron works city.


1170 AD
Carthage is nice enough to supply 3 more workers when a settler appears next to our units.


1180 AD
I ship America The Corporation to get back our 2 luxuries along with wm and $80.

Chinje is formed. It is culturally squeezed, but I want our own oil source.
(IT) Arc De Triomphe is completed.


1190 AD
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-717.jpg

We will have the iron works complete shortly. ;)


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-718.jpg
That ends Carthage, and should be the end of warmongering.


1210 AD
The iron works is officially rushed.


1220 AD
Tokch'on is formed and we will have tea after a border expansion.
(IT) The Spirit of St. Louis is completed in Seoul.


1230 AD
Radar was our free tech. I am heading for Electronics to grab Hoovers and get the 4th level worker of Engineer.


1240 AD
We need the cotton supply, so I give Thermodynamics to the Inca for Cotton and wm.



==========================

Summary:
This was primarily a builds turn. The only military was wrapping up the Carthage war.

Pusan should be able to very quickly build Hoover after the Steel Foundry is completed. We have a strong enough tech lead that we have NO risk of note getting Hoover.

Our position is so strong I will be shocked if we have serious competition to loss.

I built Spirit of St. Louis in Seoul as Seoul had most of the powerful small wonders in it. Empire State really should have been built in Seoul. We have NO competition for Einstein's Lab and should get another big science boast.

I build a few more artillery and machine gunners. I think Pusan may build every turn tanks after the Steel Foundry and Hoovers.


Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov (currently playing)
Romeothemonk (on deck)
Sanabas
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

Sure will miss arguing with LK and giving Romeo a hard time, but I need to ask for an indefinite skip. Civ is of course more fun thatn RL, but sometimes there is more to life than fun. Good luck, team.

Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov (indefinite skip)
Romeothemonk (currently playing)
Sanabas (on deck)
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

Got it. Expect in the next 24 hours.

Any special instructions??
I plan almost no military builds, just consolidate what we have.

IHT: Watch the AI use arty on the offensive against each other. WOW.
Turn 1: We lack the Echelon, swap carson city to a police station. Will get the others up as well.
Turn 2: Electronics comes in, going for fission. Einstiens lab will become then UN. Building science up.
Turn 3: We have plenty of military right now, carson city starts the Echelon prebuild.
Turn 4: Hyangsang builds the Holy City. Rome builds wonderland, we start mechanized warfare. I like armor. Sell Ethiopia tanks
Turn 5: Decide that it is in my best interest to make our laborers engineers.
Turn 6: Just chugging along. Greece and America make good.
I must have lost track of some turns.
Turn 8: Upgrading units, and moving stuff.
Turn 9: Same as above. Keep working on stuff.
Turn 10: Almost complete all our upgrades, we have 1 trencher left total. Almost all upgrades are completed.
Not much to do. Just some big builder turns. We want the echelon before we go social demo. As soon as it comes in, we should become a social democracy. I think the research path should be set to Plastics, with a small delay to get social dem, once we are ready for it. Hoovers builds in 1, remember to sell our coal plants and all that jazz.
When we swap to social dem, sell all our philo schools. We are leading the culture race now.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97-1a.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-1300AD.SAV

IHT: Watch the AI use arty on the offensive against each other. WOW.
The AI knows how to use it. The problem is the AI fails to build enough quantity for it to be effective.


Einstein's lab will become then UN.
I wonder if Seoul still has any chance to build this?


Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov (indefinite skip)
Romeothemonk
Sanabas (currently playing)
ThERat (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

Well, Seoul can swap to Edison's now at no or minimal loss. The AI is at least 2 techs from modern, and with no SGL's we should get the UN anyway, but it would be in Pusan.
This is a possibility. With Einsteins, Seoul should build the National history Meuseum.
It is habit for me to race to get the UN up asap.

Got it. UN location doesn't matter, but Seoul is the commerce monster, so I'll try and put the science boosters there, and make sure UN is built somewhere else.

I took a look at the game. Since our objective is to limit wars we should keep ALL cities defended. This may simply be due to the upgrades that look in progress to infantry.

I noticed a very pleasant surprise in the game. The oil tile between Ethiopia and us is now OURS! :dance:
We got extra culture from the free monument and avoided Ethiopia possibly getting it. If anyone doubts the value of the free monuments now...
We will want to push buildings in Namp'o that generate culture such as parks and temples to insure we never lose the oil culture war.

"We got extra culture from the free monument and avoided Ethiopia possibly getting it."

Artist Guild (built 770AD): 3 cpt
Holy City (built 1270AD): 4 cpt
Monument (from Eiffel, 950AD): 1 cpt

Yep, it was the monument that did it, alright. :rolleyes:

Pretty sure the empty cities were just due to upgrades in process, that got fixed quickly. Didn't work for avoiding wars though. I held off on Democratic Socialism until we can finish UN, diplo loss is only a tiny risk, but I still want to ensure it doesn't happen.

1300: All good, but I switch Seoul to Einstein's Lab.

1305: Research Adv Flight--->Mass Media for the 21 extra happy faces of shopping malls.
Seoul builds Einsteins-->Museum
Pusan builds Hoover Dam-->UN
Sell off all the coal plants
Give Quantum physics, Total War & Machine Tools to Ethiopia for Motion Pictures, WM & 42gpt

1310: Sell Communism & Motion pictures to greece for 158gpt & 2460 gold

1315: Greece ask for an MPP, I refuse
2 luxes expire, I give America compulsory education for 3 luxes

1320: Ethiopia extort silver
Research Mass Media--->Rocketry & TOW
3rd Movie Palace finishes, Hollywood is now available

IBT: Greece & Ethiopia sign peace
America sneak attacks. :mad: We kill a cav, lose a hwacha.

1325: Ally the world in v America. Rome & Ethiopia get Totalitarianism, Inca get compulsory ed, Greece gets Guerilla War but gives us 175gpt & 740 gold
That puts greece into modern age, they get pesticides as their freebie, we give them Mech War & Radar for Pesticides & 35gpt
Kill the american invasion force of 10 cav & a couple of rifles

IBT: Now Rome sneak attacks. We kill a cav & 2 tanks for no losses.

1330: Pyongyang builds war college
Ally the world in v Rome, Ethiopia gets gems & gold, Inca gets gems & incense, greece gets 750 gold.
Kill the Roman invasion force of 1 cav, 1 tank, 3 leathernecks & a rifle

1335: Research Rocketry--->Dem Socialism

1340: zzz

1345: Carson City builds Echelon
Give Inca camel to renew cotton deal
Sell communism to Ethiopia for silks, 97gpt & 80 gold
Raze Syracuse
Capture Caesaraugusta

1350: Research Dem Soc--->Satellites
Resistance in caesaraugusta ends
Kill 6 roman tanks at caesaraugusta
Kill an american cav, and get an MGL, build an army with it

UN is due in 2, we should hold off the revolt until then. We can expand a bit into Rome or America if we want, but it will cost us infra, simply holding them off until we can get peace again will be very easy, especially as we now have TOWs being built. We're only a few techs from being able to start our SS.

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Bezhukov (indefinite skip)
Romeothemonk
Sanabas
ThERat (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-1400AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
we want to revolt with so few units? will monitor situation
attack Ulanbatar and raze it (3 slaves)
upgrade a few machine gunners to ToW
we actually have 2 empty armies, going to fill them next turn

IT some Roman tanks appear and we get Pentagon message

1. 1355AD
fill army with 2 armor and take out Dalandzagdad (5 slaves)
grab another 2 slaves near Ravenna

IT we get UN

2.1360AD
will wait one more turn to get satellites to revolt

IT lose 1 inf and get satellites

3.1365AD
raze Ravenna with Wonderland
revolt and we draw only 4 turns anarchy :dance:
MM for growth

4 .1370AD
go on passive war mode since Rome has been hurt enough, we don't want greece to get too strong

5. 1375AD
zzzzzzzz

6. 1380AD
anarchy

IT we become a social democracy

7. 1385
research of miniturization in 2

8. 1390AD
get a MGL defeating a Roman tank, rush Pentagon in Hyangsan

IT get miniturization, next computers in 3

9.1395AD
these are all builder turns

10.1400AD
computers will be in 4, I did not trade any techs any more since the offers were not worth it, we could trade with ethyopia next
we should continue to build infra and maintain the lead and bring this home
currently building National Health care and hollywood, but we can always change those

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Bezhukov (indefinite skip)
Romeothemonk (on deck)
Sanabas
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-1450AD.zip

1405 AD
I can tell we are in the later part of the game. I am starting at the workers and I am having a hard time deciding what to do with them. Most of the core cities are already looking good.


1410 AD
I find some money out there, so I ship Ethiopia Pesticides for $111/turn, $146 and wm.


1420 AD
I get reminded there is a war out there when I actually kill a Roman unit.


1425 AD
(IT) Now this is the message I have been waiting for. The end game is getting near.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LAK-723.jpg

We complete National Health Care along with Hollywood.


1440 AD
I sell Greece Electronics for $820 and $187/turn. That will slow down our bleed rate. Of course, with the amount of cash we have does that really matter?

==========================

Summary:
Romeothemonk will be able to started building space parts. :dance:

I think the Greek talks starting to cross our borders are heading to Rome, but I would reinforce any threatened cities.

We are still technically at war with Rome and America, but it really hasn't had much of an effect. My military building was limited to 2 cities - one building tow, and the other armor.

Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov (indefinite skip)
Romeothemonk (currently playing)
Sanabas (on deck)
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

You want me to build what when there is a war on??



Oh, yeah. Just playing with you. I will attempt to upgrade cities, build parts and put down any rabid varmits that cross us.
Expect tomorrow sometime

Swap almost all builds to wind farm. Including the space program. It costs 2 turns upfront, but gives us 1 back on the program itself.
The rest will pay ofr itslef over the length of a SS part.
Turn 1: Seoul starts the New Deal. Pusan starts the Space program. Kill a Roman cav
Turn 2: Mass MM with workers. Clearing out the suboptimal jungles.
Turn 3: Not much, maximizing cities.
Turn 4: Randomly leader fishing on Rome
Turn 5: America is gone courtesy of the Inca.
Turn 6: More stuff
Turn 7: Ibid
Turn 8: Ibid 8th elite win, no leader yet.
Turn 9: We learn civil liberties, Pusan swaps to the wonder, delaying space by another 3 turns. Production is key at this stage and we have some massive prebuilds in the offing.
Turn 10: We enjoy a peaceful building phase. 11 total elite wins, no leaders.
This was just a time of adding production for the big push. We will get Space next turn. We would like an MGL for the Engine.
I was sticking to techs I could get in 2 turns, but still had use for us.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/lk97-1b.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-1500AD.SAV

Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov (indefinite skip)
Romeothemonk
Sanabas (currently playing)
ThERat (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

I took a look at the game. It is really time to start building those space parts. I agree some of them are brutal in cost. I would like to see the New Deal used a pre-build for a ship part, as we don't have a lot of cities left that need growth and granaries. I want my next turn coming up to be my last turn. I am not sure if Universal Suffrage is even worth it at this point.

It looks like we have about 10 techs to go. We have a large lead in tech, so IMO the risk of space loss = 0. At this point I don't want to research anything more that won't get us another part.

The only thing that we really "want" to build is civil liberties. The others are all huge shield prebuilds, Battlefield Medicine, Uni sufferage, Atomic Weapons test, New Deal.
All the Techs I researched either gave parts or were prereqs, with the exception of civil liberties, but I thought a ~25 shield boost in all cities wouldn't hurt us.

Got it. Play today.

1500: All good, there's a couple of factories being built without guild halls, and a lot of science buildings to be built to make sure we can continue 2 turn research.

1505: Rome & Inca sign peace
Ulsan builds space program, switch the prebuilds to SS parts
I don't like pretend wars, so make peace with Rome, and they gift us 2 cities.

1510: Research Computer Networking
SS Party Lounge & Life Support built
Pusan builds Civil Liberties

1515: Inca build Universal Suffrage

1520: Research Robotics

1530: Research Microchip
Build SS Thrusters

1535: Build SS Docking Bay

1540: Research Adv Composites

1550: Research Superconductor
SS Storage built


We're still managing 2 turn research, we're now 7 techs & 14 turns from the final SS part being available, LK should get the win on his next set.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-1600AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
things look good

IT get stasis chamber

1. 1555AD
join a few natives

IT we get HAL 9000, also called advanced computers (I like that icon)

2.1560AD
renew a lux deal with Ethiopia

IT get SS engine

3.1565AD
zzzz

It fuel cells are in

4 .1570AD
Seoul to fuel cells in 4

5. 1575AD
continue the science push to get us research asap

IT get stealth

6. 1580AD
Greece is eating up Rome

7. 1585AD
zzzzzzz

IT high tolerance ceramics are in
fuel cells are done

8. 1590AD
swap Pusan to exterior casing in 2

9.1595AD
zzzz

IT renew lux deal with Inca, get data encryption
e-commerce in 2, get Internet message, get exterior casing

10.1600AD
clean some poo....
LK will finish it in 5 turns, 2 more techs and 1 part

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Bezhukov (indefinite skip)
Romeothemonk (on deck)
Sanabas
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-1620AD.zip

1600 AD
Even if the AI took out half our empire they can't prevent a launch at this point.


1620 AD
(IT) We get to hit the launch button.

We had 3 of the top 5 cities. Seoul was #1, Pusan #2 and Carson City #3.


Korea is grossly over powered for a space race. Between the cheap science and cheap corruption help it is almost impossible not to have a commerce giant later in the game.

I never thought you could have a deity level space that is a total blowout. Greece didn't even have a single part built. The difference in tech levels was unreal.

Good game all. I enjoyed this one. I still say that the Eiffel tower was a critical build. :p
The problem is that the AI's ineffectiveness at warring is amplified in RaR. A method to get a better space race would be to set to lowest AI aggression, and making sure the Mongols and the Romans aren't around.
That and most of this team participated in a Sid level beatdown. That might be your next RaR challenge.
Thanks to the team. Many congratulations to the team.

I never thought you could have a deity level space that is a total blowout. Greece didn't even have a single part built. The difference in tech levels was unreal.
Perhaps you should try it on Sid? :)

Perhaps you should try it on Sidwe did that in Bez1 and it worked too, of course that was archipelago setting with GL1 and 2. maybe you should try the level higher than SID.

anyway, great team, great win. :goodjob:

Yes, despite all the usual back and forth, this strikes me as a pretty early date for an RandR launch. You seen an earlier one, Doc?

Very good show team - second only in my book to Zav1 for RandR games (Sid games get their own category). :thumbsup:

Letting the AI have the GL's might have actually helped the tech pace along.

Yes, despite all the usual back and forth, this strikes me as a pretty early date for an RandR launch. You seen an earlier one, Doc?

I was already thinking the launch date was awful early. In some ways it is tempting to trying another space race just to compare launch years.