Screenshot 1:
The units closest to the top left are the same Swordsmen units from Civ3.


Screenshot 2: What it says on the bottom left:

Metal Casting
- Can build a Workshop
- Can Construct Forge
- Leads to Chemistry, Machinery
38 Turns

Spearman
4 (arm image representing strength), 0/1 (foot representing movement)
Combat: 1

The icons at the top are technology icons, they are the same images as from Civ3 (I hope they are placeholders).

EDIT: Sorry, have to remove the screenshots, since they are copyrighted. Waiting for permission from Game Informer... -- TF

Nice, I'll try and get a good look before they are removed... :)

First screenshot : the change of perspective is cool! Perhaps not practical, though...

If that is a city at bottom centre, I don't like for how puny it looks compared to the units around it, but scale can be difficult. Maybe zooming changes the ratio of unit size to city size?

My...we have been waiting for this for so long... :)

Screenshot 2 - can see that units and cities are much closer in size, similar to civ 3. perspective similar to civ3, but mini map view box is skewed.

Screenshot 1 - are there 2 sets of worker units on the plains by the river at the centre?

Shadows in civ is not heresy, it's borrowing from Rome Total War and looks great !

Thre seems to be some problem with the scale of the warriors and the city (or camp ?) as pointed out already.

I'm not quite sure those multy units appeal to me. Looks like they will polish up the graphics a whole lot.

Damn!!! That first screenie is sweet. Playing Civ in 3D will be a treat.

October can't come soon enough.

scale of warriors and city:

I have touched this topic in a thread...
I just hope that when zooming in, this scale will change
- units to be smaller than city...

Screenshot 2

How come that what I see on the minimap is just not what is in the main window?

Moreover, what is in the main window is nowhere on the minimap! :confused:

Things have definately improved since the last lot of screenshots. Everyone who knew anything about the way computer games said that the graphics would continue to be sub-par, but there were still people who wouldn't listen. The proof is in the pudding people.

SCR 2

What is that "100%" in the top-left corner?
Is that to show that science is on full go? :)

I hope it has nothing to do with max zooming out...

Looks like a beaker to me.

Looks crappy to me ;)

Snnopy, the attached pics say #2 and #3 - where is #1!? :)
...I just ask, I am grateful for these two already

I'll sure have to get used to the multi figure-units. Seems so crowded, if it's only for the graphics and not for gameplay. It would be different if that are five seperate units that can fight and die individually so a 5-pack is stronger than a 4-pack and so on. If desired u can join two deminishing groups in to one healty one again.

What would be the chance of something like this?????

Screenshot 2
How come that what I see on the minimap is just not what is in the main window?

Moreover, what is in the main window is nowhere on the minimap!

I think if you rotate what you see on the main screen to fit in the minimap it's a closer match, but the terrain color is still off.

The terrain is starting to show improvements, but....I hate the multi-units! ugh...

If your gonna make multi-units, put them in logical formations, nt just sets of 5. I could understand some ancient units not being in a tactical alignment, but archers, riflemen, etc. better be.

Terrain:

I guess it is still not finished,
the tiles have borders too sharply separated from each other

Can you show us screenies from what Civ III was half a year prior to release? :)

Well, I think screenshot 3 shows fairly conclusively that unit to city size ratio does alter according to zooming.
Also, even though I think these graphics ALREADY look GOOD (better than the final graphics in Civ3) I don't think this is the end of the graphics improvements, IMHO ;)!
Hey, Snoopy, did they reveal anything major about the game-in the text-that hasn't been discussed yet?

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Nice screens :goodjob:
Graphics look good, MUCH better than in the older screenshots.

unit/city size.

Maybe it is the ANGLE of the look what counts:
in SCR 1 you have a look angle closer to the ground (less degree...),
so units closer must look BIG to achieve 3D...
Still, that city also close as the unit that is above it should still be BIGGER

Will it be possible for us to choose angle AND zoom?...

Thanks Snoopy! Those shots look good, can't wait. :)

Great! Finally some more shots! :)

By the way Snoopy, Did they mention any more info in the PC magazine you found those pic's?

Allow me to speculate. Mostly non observations, discussing what appears to be the same, or raising new questions...

Screenshot 2

Morale: Flags appear to be replaced with banners, making it (slightly) less likely that morale is in the game. The flapping flags, as some people indicated, might have represented that unit's relative zeal. Now that they're banners, there's still an outside shot that morale is represented in some other way, perhaps as a number below the unit. After all, if you take the screenshot literally, then units don't even have hitpoints ;)

City Radius: It looks like the "fat x" is still in, going by the size of those red borders.

Flat Land: It doesn't look like they've made land slope up and down, like a Simcity 2000, 3000 and so on. Mountains and hills are represented in 3D, but they're strictly there as terrain types. Although I am wondering to myself -- how are those little units going to appear on those jagged little mountains?

Workers: It looks like little worker units are in there, so they haven't moved to a public works system. Whether this precludes any kind of streamlining of their work is something else, but it looks like workers behave like regular units with special abilities.

Number of Soldiers: If you look at that square by the lake, the red unit in the top left, it appears to have 4 soldiers. If you look at the red workers and warriors towards the bottom, it appears to have 5. Maybe the number of units represents hitpoints? Maybe the number of soldiers increases as a unit achieves more experience?

Nice engine, by the way. ;)

Screenshot 3

Technologies: See the bottom left? The player appears to be researching Metal Casting, which leads to chemistry and machinery. It looks like they're going for more detail in the tech tree! Also note, these technologies are all scientific, as opposed to social (like nationalism, monotheism, and feudalism) -- it's curious what some of the social techs are.

Building versus Constructing: Also note from that little tech dialog -- Metal Casting allows you to build a Workshop. But it also allows you to Construct Forge. What's the difference between building and constructing? Why mince terms? Are they different? If building is what happens for regular city improvements... Perhaps to Construct something is to make it with your workers? Or perhaps to construct something is to build something on a small-wonder scale?

Unit Stats: I can't see anything that would look like a reasonable attack / defence for a spearman. O/1 seems to indicate movement. There's a number that says Combat: 1, suggesting this is the spearman's attack rate? But then what is the 4 squiggle? Some kind of experience or HP level? What happened to defence? Maybe stats are being rethought?

Rivers: Civ 3 style, between tiles, as opposed to running through tiles like roads.

Also note, they cleaned up the interface while still keeping it relatively consistent. Stats and map in the corner, and unit options in the middle. But the options are icons instead of little buttons. Also, it looks like they're trying to get more information on the screen, with the research info in the left corner as well, along with "34 turns" indicating the amount of time left.

To everyone: I have a large 1200x800 pic of the tilted view screen. It's almost 2mb. But if you want it, post your email address in this thread. DON'T PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.

To everyone: I have a large 1200x800 pic of the tilted view screen. It's almost 2mb. But if you want it, post your email address in this thread. DON'T PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.
OxfordPferd@gmx.de

Nice screenies...

Though I don't like the appearance of the horse ressource, it's too much like a 3D icon, I would have wanted to see several horses run through the country, or maybe just running in the tile at a smaller squale.

To tell you guys the truth, so far I'm dissapointed. The graphics are ok to me, although I do like the new look of the spearman. What are all those giant units doing...it makes it look hella stupid. And you know, if I had to use "hella" to describe the stupidness it must be bad. I feel sad. :(

Mind if I add something Is it just me, or are there two horses in Screenshot Two. it looks like one of the two has it's head lowered as well.

Could this mean we're going to have animated Resources in Civ IV?

To everyone: I have a large 1200x800 pic of the tilted view screen. It's almost 2mb. But if you want it, post your email address in this thread. DON'T PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.

arkammler@yahoo.com

Thanks a lot Sn00py.

Honestly, I still didn't expect the graphics to look so great. They are just awesome. That said, imagine how they'll improve with the months to come! :D

These screenshots were alright, but many of the subtle observations worried me. dh_epic mentioned most of them, so I will start there:

City Radius: It looks like the "fat x" is still in, going by the size of those red borders.

It looks like the 21-square city radius is staying. This is not conclusive, but distance from square would have been more intuitive if cities could have variable work zones.

Flat Land: It doesn't look like they've made land slope up and down, like a Simcity 2000, 3000 and so on. Mountains and hills are represented in 3D, but they're strictly there as terrain types. Although I am wondering to myself -- how are those little units going to appear on those jagged little mountains?

Kinda ugly in my opinion.

Workers: It looks like little worker units are in there, so they haven't moved to a public works system. Whether this precludes any kind of streamlining of their work is something else, but it looks like workers behave like regular units with special abilities.

Agreed. Even the model looks as though it was ripped direct from Civ 3.

Number of Soldiers: If you look at that square by the lake, the red unit in the top left, it appears to have 4 soldiers. If you look at the red workers and warriors towards the bottom, it appears to have 5. Maybe the number of units represents hitpoints? Maybe the number of soldiers increases as a unit achieves more experience?

I am guessing hit points because of the lack of HP info anywhere else. This means we should expect a lot more :spear:/frustrating combat results.

Building versus Constructing: Also note from that little tech dialog -- Metal Casting allows you to build a Workshop. But it also allows you to Construct Forge. What's the difference between building and constructing? Why mince terms? Are they different? If building is what happens for regular city improvements... Perhaps to Construct something is to make it with your workers? Or perhaps to construct something is to build something on a small-wonder scale?

I am guessing that Forge is a small wonder while workshop is an improvement. The way techs is shown reminds me of RoN in many ways. The rest of the interface, especially the middle box with orders, reminds me of AoE extensively.

It appears that there are no villages, farm towns, or any signs of civilization outside these few cities.

Agreed.

Could the Wonders and small wonders be a nationwide effort now, and that's what the constuction - improvement differentiation is about..?

To everyone: I have a large 1200x800 pic of the tilted view screen. It's almost 2mb. But if you want it, post your email address in this thread. DON'T PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.

You're probably gonna get a ton of requests ;)

epsilon530 AT gmail.com

OK, I think dh_epic did try to make as much as possible from these screenshots and since it is also more my interest than the mere looks I will try to add my 2 cents as well, which are a mixture of analysis (little), wild guesses (most) with some seasonings of hope (kind of I see what I want to see :lol: ).


Screenshot 2 :
apparently there are different types of groups of warriors (style and not just number) maybe they have civ-specific-looking units or at least culture-group specific-looking units. Or these are really different units or some here are simply UU (guess they will keep it as it was a good and well-liked addition).

Relief on the map is nice but resources on them don't always blend well. The horse for instance looks both very static and a bit like floating above the hills.

Workers and no Public works, I agree.



Screenshot 3

there seems to be 4-5 resources and/or land improvements mostly on the desert/flood plains tiles. Guess 1 is just a scrub on desert to vary the looks. 1 looks like a megalith and I have no clue about what it is, two looks like improvement and 1 looks like resources (ore ?) + improvement (mine ?) (NE of the Western city). Then there is an enormous oasis (too big IMHO) SE of the Eastern city.
Roads are nice but rivers are still along the squares and don't blend with the roads, so apparently they cannot be used for trade, speeding movement. Really too bad.

I also believe build and construct refer to 2 different things : my guess is really 1 land improvement and 1 city improvement. Forge = land improvement ???

The unit stats got me puzzled.
Guesses :
4 refers to the number of figures in the unit. Or it refers to a general combat value (a la DBA) which could be interesting. Then 0/1 could be bonus in attack/defense ? (this might far-fetching but it is a guess).
Combat 1 : could be the experience of the unit = survived 1 combat.


I don't recognize the map from the minimap and vice versa at all..... ????

The icons at the top look like tech icons, some even look like Civ3 ones (monarchy and abacus anyone ?). Now hope it does not mean techs researched or I don't see how we could avoid the cluttering of the screen. Alternative can be the advisors" screen (first would be government, last one army ?) but I don't think so.

Altogether the screen looks really colorful ... or a bit childish (depends on one's opinion).

The graphics look nice at first glance.

Yet, the typical problem of a 3d-engine seems to occur: you may loose details.
Have a look at the first graphic. There is a little hill left hand in the middle, which blocks the complete view to the little bay. If there were one of the sheep (?) resources, it could pretty well be masked as well. Or the mountain "behind" this little settlement - if there were a 1-head-unit behind it, would it be visible?

This close zoom may be nice to look at once or twice at the first day. I am pretty sure that for the real gaming you would switch to the zooming factor as of the second graphic.

Btw, it looks as if the "diamond" tiles would be back, no? Everything looks a little bit "tilted".
If this were due to a "rotation" feature, then I hope that there will be a "normal view" hot-key, otherwise I see us spending our days with trying to regain the best zoom/angle/rotation - combination.

If this would be the final version of the graphics, then at least I'd hope that in the "close-up" setting, all visible items were animated.
Until being confronted with more impressive pictures, I can't say that I were very much impressed....

Saved. :)

Being in Portugal, that magazines are quite unfair to us, not publishing nothing here, magazine or net pics...

Not saying I don't understand them, but I feel a bit of injustice here...

The icons at the top look like tech icons, some even look like Civ3 ones (monarchy and abacus anyone ?). Now hope it does not mean techs researched or I don't see how we could avoid the cluttering of the screen. Alternative can be the advisors" screen (first would be government, last one army ?) but I don't think so.

The icons are from Civ III, they are probably using them before they create unique ones for Civ IV.
I also agree that I don’t want the screen to get cluttered up with a lot of stuff. Keep it clean & simple.



Btw, it looks as if the "diamond" tiles would be back, no? Everything looks a little bit "tilted".
If this were due to a "rotation" feature, then I hope that there will be a "normal view" hot-key, otherwise I see us spending our days with trying to regain the best zoom/angle/rotation - combination.


I am not yet sure about that. As you can see the mini-map, the entire box is a diamond. Maybe it suggests that the camera can rotate left and right (hence, the diamond box on the mini map). If that’s the case, then the tiles would still be square if you are viewing them normally.

I've been giving them a second look this morning... Spotted some things no else has yet I suppose cause they haven't said anything:

Screenshot 2:
- Anyone notice the two horses on the right hand side. How one is standing normally, and the other is eating. Does this mean animated resources? If so, it could probably help the "invisible" resources problem, like how it was nigh impossible to see saltpetre in deserts in Civ 3.
- Several types of forests. I can make out at least 3 (maybe four) kinds. Do they just the same stats like the pine and normal forests in Civ 3?
-Look in the far righthand bottom corner at where the ocean meets the land. Notice that little kink o whatever? Animated waves hitting the shoreline or just a graphics glitch?
- The unit second from the bottom, and the one to the northwest of it look like workers building roads and irrigating.

Screenshot 3:
- The Spearman is a Hoplite (one man in a Phalanx). Suddenly it looks like UUs are reworked.
- Next to the four is a flexed arm, and next to the 0/1 is a foot. 4 Strength and 0/1 Movement.
- It looks like the banner might raise and lower to indicate health / morale, just looking to the right of the Spearman. Then again, it might just only indicate civ without any raising / lowering.
- The settlements don't seem to have names.

I've been giving them a second look this morning... Spotted some things no else has yet I suppose cause they haven't said anything:

Screenshot 2:
- Anyone notice the two horses on the right hand side. How one is standing normally, and the other is eating. Does this mean animated resources? If so, it could probably help the "invisible" resources problem, like how it was nigh impossible to see saltpetre in deserts in Civ 3.
- Several types of forests. I can make out at least 3 (maybe four) kinds. Do they just the same stats like the pine and normal forests in Civ 3?
-Look in the far righthand bottom corner at where the ocean meets the land. Notice that little kink o whatever? Animated waves hitting the shoreline or just a graphics glitch?
- The unit second from the bottom, and the one to the northwest of it look like workers building roads and irrigating.


I agree with animated resources. If you see the whale in the other screenshot it certainly does look animated, because if you compare it with the older screenies, the whale there you could see only its tail fin.
And again, it pretty much is a sure bet that the world will be a lot more lively because of 3D (ocean waves, etc).

It seems to me like most of the changes are representational.

Represent units as multiple figures, instead of one.
Represent resources as animated, rather than still.
Represent the game as 3D, rather than 2D.
Represent city-improvements as "construct" and tile-improvements as "build".
Represent hitpoints, strength, and defence with different values (maybe).
Represent more information about the technology you're researching.

In other words, it's a 3D version of Civilization 3. It's Civilization 3 with new graphics.

Not that the game will end up that way... I'm sure they're just releasing the "safest" screenshots to the magazines, either because they're still testing and implementing the big features, or just to build mystique.

It seems to me like most of the changes are representational.

Represent units as multiple figures, instead of one.
Represent resources as animated, rather than still.
Represent the game as 3D, rather than 2D.
Represent city-improvements as "construct" and tile-improvements as "build".
Represent hitpoints, strength, and defence with different values (maybe).
Represent more information about the technology you're researching.

In other words, it's a 3D version of Civilization 3. It's Civilization 3 with new graphics.

Not that the game will end up that way... I'm sure they're just releasing the "safest" screenshots to the magazines, either because they're still testing and implementing the big features, or just to build mystique.

Indeed. I can understand why we have not seen anything major on the major gaming sites yet (GS, IGN, etc).

I personally can't say that it's Civ III with the same graphics (although I understand what you mean), but I can say that it is with similar concepts, and those consepts have been majorly revised (at least, the ones we already know of). :)

This is not what I am waiting for :(
All overview is gone. I hope there is a 3d-2d switch option; 3d for the looks, 2d for the playing.

All overview is gone.

I would say so too, if I had only looked at screenshot #2. :) The third screenshot Snoopy posted seems more natural, IMHO.

To everyone: I have a large 1200x800 pic of the tilted view screen. It's almost 2mb. But if you want it, post your email address in this thread. DON'T PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.

hybrid094@hotmail.com

To everyone: I have a large 1200x800 pic of the tilted view screen. It's almost 2mb. But if you want it, post your email address in this thread. DON'T PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.

aks80k@gmail.com

Thanks in advance

Aks K

To everyone: I have a large 1200x800 pic of the tilted view screen. It's almost 2mb. But if you want it, post your email address in this thread. DON'T PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.

zeekater@gmail.com

In screenshot 2 there's a few things around those workes, like to the left is something that looks like farms (with a little house and crops) and then there's something weird in the middle. Anybody got an idea what that could be?

Its definately more than representational changes. They've said that the game is built from scratch. Most changes can't really be shown on a screenshot, such as any RPG elements. The techs mentioned suggest different techs, if not more total techs. I'm sure I could find a few more gameplay elements if I looked for them.

Yeah, I definitely agree with that, Louis XXIV. Fortunately we've heard about a few features -- some features are better described than shown in a picture.

the_aussie_lurker@yahoo.de or mhicks49@hotmail.com

Thanks for that Snoopy, you are an absolute LEGEND :)!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

The screenlooks very ugly. I hope this is not how civ4 is gotta look.

I posted this in Apolyton, so I better post it here too.

=============
Just a few thoguhts:

If I know how to do it, I will go about and change the graphics (hopefully for the last time, Firaxis ;) )

Anyway, I was just looking at the isometric screenshot, looking at the terrain.. thinking.. how did they make it.. how are the tree's made.. etc..

Then it struck me.. this is a 3D engine, they said they are writing it in XML. If I can remember correctly, RoN is also written with XML, and anything that was 3D in RoN, could be changed in the XML file. I remember making the worker units in RoN about 50 times larger. They were Giants (I might still have a screenshot somewhere, if I can find it I will post it).

But anyway, it's obvious what I am suggesting here.. the mountains are 3D, so why not just make the mountains 50 times larger? There you go, big ass mountains, big ass tree's, big ass cities.

Firaxis must just be setting the defaults here, knowing that us fans will just go ahead and change it to our liking.


I'll tell you the truth, when I saw it, I first thought "cool, you can tilt the screen". But then I thought "It kinda sucks". But now I think "This is going to be a seriously powerful game - modding wise".


I don't want to get over the top here, but you could, theoretically, create your own RPG game yknow?
=============

Any confirmation from Firaxis would be nice :D

I personally feel this game is going to be so modded, that we will be playing GotM's on popular mods. I have no worries at all regarding cIV because the mod community will be able to support it so much.

I kinda suspected it (the 3D-ness) might be the case Snoopy. But in a less smart-sounding way :) The first screenshots with the triangular trees made me realise that was probably the case. Although the moddability didn't occur to me. What I'll be interested to know though, that if it was possible to change M-units into single units, how many people would actually do it?

Hey Snoopy, my man! Please mail me your great file, if you find the time!

as@wli.no

Snoopy, I would be grateful for the big files:
csikusz@axelero.hu

Look at the unit near the bottom-right corner, at the oazis...

Two figures in the "first row" have their shields held up...
the other three not... is that only graphical diversity?

Or can it be that there can be different units in that 5-man-pack?
Oh, that would be nice...

I know, that the stats in the left box might put out this spark of hope...

No they're all holding their shields up.

BTW: I reckon they've kept the city names hidden and so forth so we can't work out which civs are in :lol: We know from the earlier screens Germany was in, and the Hoplite "Spearman" suggests Greece too, but those were obvious anyway.

To everyone: I have a large 1200x800 pic of the tilted view screen. It's almost 2mb. But if you want it, post your email address in this thread. DON'T PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.

Yeah, gimme, please.

notech@telia.com

Thanx in advance....

Take a look at screen3, the 2 unit formations next to the oasis are formed differently, one of them forming a sircle, the one below forming two rows. Can it be a possibillity that your units will be able to form different formations?

the circle formed one may be fortified...

At a first glance the screens appears with agressive colours to the sight. I hope is just an impression.

Snoopy
I'll be gratefull if you send me screenshot #1
as3236292@sapo.pt

I dont know what to think about these screenshots. They look so .... different. Well anyways, form doesn`t matter if gameplay is great.

Now that's how I like it, dudes!! I've been waiting for this for a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time. Reminds me of AoE2 from the menus, the actual game reminds me of Civ3 :D

Snoopy, thanks :D

In the zoomed out picture, I notice two things. One, there are a lot of hut type things scattered out inside the cultural territory. I wonder if they were built, or popped up naturally. I also wonder if they do anything or are just to look cool. There's also one that might be a mine.

Also, cities don't have their names listed, but maybe it was just turned off or something.

Also, cities don't have their names listed, but maybe it was just turned off or something.

I would assume that the city names (possibly along with some other info) has been turned off as well.

:)

My guess is that its not implemented yet.

They probably turned it off just for the screenshots.

ignore this :)

im a little too late, they removed the screenshots.

but from the posts, its seems as if i got my first finger erection.

To everyone: I have a large 1200x800 pic of the tilted view screen. It's almost 2mb. But if you want it, post your email address in this thread. DON'T PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.

Thanks ! :)

bun_b@operamail.com

slozenger@aol.com

adriano_hirt@hotmail.com

gwcarver2002@yahoo.com
thanks much

benoitpink@hotmail.com
Thx Snoopy for your gr8t job.

thatinkjar@hotmail.com
My heart belongs to you, Snoopy :)

Heh, hes going to be emailing a lot of people.

Jimbo23448@comcast.net

Thank you so much!

sanhvn@hotmail.com

!

cadfael@DAB.zzn.com

darwin420@hotmail.com

I suspect Snoopy has given up the idea of sharing the wealth. I don't blame him. I got sick of sending the first load of screenshots I scanned to people. 5 megabytes a pop, if I remember correctly. Got sick of that after the fifth person.

I'm convinced next month will blow Civ4 wide open!

oh, well, it's worth a shot.

I suspect Snoopy has given up the idea of sharing the wealth. I don't blame him. I got sick of sending the first load of screenshots I scanned to people. 5 megabytes a pop, if I remember correctly. Got sick of that after the fifth person.

I'm convinced next month will blow Civ4 wide open!


E3 or right before.

Exactly. E3 will do some damage for us, but you never know what might spring up before the show. And once the show is done and dusted, we can expect it all to come gushing out.

Were can I see the screenshots?

Hi!
What if anyone who gets the pics promise to forward them to at least 2 others, and thereby taking the workload off whoever-was-kind-enough-to-scan-them-in-the-first-place..?
Besides that I'm very curious myself, I'd be glad to torrent/seed the screenshots. And I got a little webspace that might come in handy as well... :)
Anyone care to email them to me? dani4965(at)student.uu.se, it'll be highly appreciated! :)

stephenpinnock@hotmail.com

Send me a Private Message, and I will do better than e-mail it to you :mischief:

Waits to see PM box fill up in an hour ;)

*points to sig*

Micaelis Rex, you're a good good man. :)